Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside the Mind of a Corrupt Prison Cop

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Stories from a corrupt correctional officer.Gary's Channel https://www.youtube.com/@garyheyward Gary's Book https://www.amazon.com/Corruption-Officer-Perpetrator-Inside-Rikers/dp/1476794324/ref=asc_df_1476794324/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312144142951&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=130908139333154542&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029998&hvtargid=pla-493531547975&psc=1&mcid=2b5fe33fa03f30788bd11889eaf75083&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=62149175956&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312144142951&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=130908139333154542&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029998&hvtargid=pla-493531547975&gclid=Cj0KCQiA6vaqBhCbARIsACF9M6kAxc22QLWHAdvFSH2frj2qGyBnNtz5yDyBk8PMsSj4ncLxwf7bRdkaAtGGEALw_wcBFollow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

As a correction officer, I decide whether you live or die. I decide that. So the way it worked is, I would let the inmate out, tell them to go and sweep and mop over here, or go get the supplies and do this and that. They want to have $1,500 or $500. She gets a grand, and she did it like two or three times a week. This is a superficial thing for me to say, what this chick look like? It's not a superficial because you know better.

Maybe she had a great personality or something. I don't know. But do you guys call yourself guards or a correctional officer? Well, it's correctional officer. But around the world, the old call correctionalysis guards. Yeah, yeah. Correction officer's thing is like a, it's kind of like a slight or a disrespect to call them a guard. Because, you know, law enforcement, you know, extraordinary.

So, all right, well, you were in Rikers Island. How long were we at Rikers? Ten years. Were you born in New York? I mean, did you? Yes. I'm born and raised in Harlem, New York City. You know, public grounds projects.

Okay. Okay. Were you're, I mean, you know, did you have both parents, a single mother? Single, single mother. My father left the home when I was about a year and a half old, you know, had an orphan on relationship with him, you know, until he passed. So roughly it's just my mom raised me, my brother, my sister. Okay. Were you, I mean, you went to school. Did you, you know, did you want to be law enforcement when you were. growing up what were you thinking when you were in high school you know well here's a thing and i think most in a city uh people who live in these uh type of environments that i brought up with your mom well my mother and everybody else's mother um kind of instilled in us that you know in in my era rap was relevant you know everybody's trying to be a rapper or everybody's trying to be a basketball

player everybody didn't have those skills so what it was in order to quote on quote make it make it out the the urban environment is you get yourself a city or state job and you do 20 30 years get a pension and during that cost of time you can move your family to a better neighborhood go to better schools etc like that so no i didn't have any ambition to be a correction officer is just that when I was growing up, my brother joined the Marines. I was still in school and got in some trouble in school and ended up dropping out of school. So he came back from the Marines and, you know, all gung-ho and everything and took me down to the recruiter. And you know how the recruiters can be real persistent, taking you out to dinner, wine, and then down you to get you to sign in.

So I became a Marine because I had a, I didn't even have my GED. and at the time they were taking individuals without GEDs so I thought it would wait for me to escape a way for me to get out you know um become a mature grown man so June 3rd I went and took the test to get into the military June 6th I was on that plane going to Paris Island to be a Marine so okay just like that how old were you 18 19 19 okay yeah I did yeah 19 I mean, that seems like a smart move. You know what I'm saying? They'll take care. Like, I mean, it's, I'm sure it's hell. But at least you have somebody, at least you have direction and you have someone to, you know, point you in the right direction and you have a structure and. But you don't know that until you go through it.

Right. You're terrified because you hear all the stories about Marine Corps boot camp. You know, you really don't know how good a shape you are until you go through that. Right. How was it? It was It was enlightening to me Because coming from Harlem in 19

I went in in 1987 I'm just You know I'm just going to be straight up It wasn't that many White people in my neighborhood That I had to interact with on a daily basis So now

I become a ring And it's like accessible people from all over the world This is the first time It was a guy named Petit And it's the first time in my life ever that I was really seeing somebody with natural red hair and red hair on a, you know, on a, like this, like, it was a red head, red hair, big guy from the country, you know, and as you exchange stories with them, I tell them I lived in their projects, 30 stories tall, elevator goes up and there's like 12 apartments. There was like, you, y'all live like an ant colony. You know, they were an elevator, you know, at the time coming from the country up, you never been to any city. yeah living in a building 30 stories tall they were afraid am i afraid of heights and until you

you know you witness it or experience it and you understand where where i'm coming from just like i couldn't understand how somebody 12 years old already was not how to drive tractors and drive big trucks when in new york city if you get your license before 30 at that time you i was going to say you didn't even a car you don't even a car in new york no no not at all but it was that experience you know i wouldn't trade it for a world now so did you i mean did you how long were you i'm assuming you went through boot camp i'm assuming you know there were no problems or how did how long were you in the in the marines well i'm going to be honest with the recruiter lied to me right no one of the questions i asked them no it when you're young you feel like

you pretty much invincible that, you know, I'm scared about the training that I heard Marines go through, but I was more scared, afraid about, um, are we going to war? You know, that was one of the questions I asked them. And he was like, oh, it's peacetime. Don't worry about it. You know, it's peace time right now. It's just no threats or nothing like that. So I took his word for it. And in 1989 and 90, I ended up in Desert Storm, Desert Shield, in a war. Right. Yeah, so that's the only thing I really. I can say we're wrong.

Everything else was just life-changing experiences, becoming a man, being away from home because I'm from New York, stationed in Camp Hill and in California, you know, seeing different cultures or like a cesspool of people from all over the world in California. You know, first time I've seen a black guy with a 10-gallon hat and a belt and boots

and really dancing the country music. So it was an eye-opening for me coming from the city from Harlem. so well how was a um you said you were in desert shield there's a storm desert shield that's the name of it so what i mean how long were you there uh two years did you see any action or oh yeah i'm a decorated war veterans okay why did you get out um at the time um i had my my daughter was born and i never i hadn't laid eyes at all because I was out in Desert Storm, Desert Shield.

And when I came back, okay, the way the military is, my time to get out of the military came and went when I was over in the war. Once you're in the war, you can't come home until the war is over. So, I mean, speaking, you sign you enlist for four years. If within that four years, if you got like six months left and the war breaks out and you're over in war, you have to be there for the duration until you can, uh, to the war is over. and, you know, hopefully you make it home. And then you decide if you want to stay or if you want to go.

I decided after being there two years past my time that I was going to stay, but I wanted to go see my daughter, at least lay eyes on her physically. And they were doing a turnaround. They were going right back. And that's why I said, no, because I don't know about what's going to happen this next time I'm around. So that's when I, you know, elected to get out so I can, be with my daughter, be around my kids.

So, I mean, what was your plan when you got out? No plan, really. But you get out with a little bit of money. You've got a little chunk of money. Yes. Yes, you know, but if you are, I'm not going to say uneducated. If you don't have a plan, that money goes fast. If you don't have a plan of action, and when I got out the military, of course, what's the job's available, security?

law enforcement, you know, if you're a big guy, construction, you work through your streams. Now, at the time, I did have a little bit of computer savvy because I was an aviation maintenance administration inside the military. So basically, still following what my mama told me, took all the city exams to be a police officer and a correctional officer, and corrections called me first. Okay. And it was for for Rikers Island. Yes. Yes. So who runs Rikers Island? Is it the like the Sheriff's Department? Or corrections. The corrections department. So it's a state facility. It's a city, it's a city jail. It's like when you, any county it's like a county jail for new york city okay i was gonna say because you know what like in most

not all cities but i mean not all states but in most states you know the the county sheriff runs the jail you know even if you have like a police department you typically end up like let's say you got arrested in Tampa you the hillsborough county is going to put you in their jail for the Tampa PD but some some some cities cities are so large that they have their own jail systems. But most are, let's face it, most places aren't New York City. It's, it's insane. It's not like it's twice as big as Tampa.

It's 350 to 500 times as big as Tampa. You know, it's massive. So, you know, I don't know if you've been to Tampa, but I grew up thinking Tampa was a city because there was like, there's like 10 buildings that are more than, you know, 30 feet high. that's a city to me you know and now you go to i'm like that tampa's not a city like you go to new york you've never you've never came into new york oh yeah about two years ago i've been twice since then but two years ago so you know i'd seen it but it's not you don't understand until you've driven you know over that bridge into the city how it's like this isn't a large city this is

buildings as far as you can see and it you know listen my my my wife grew up in like ok chobie and the tallest building in ok chobie is like three stories high i mean it's she she was i was shocked she was just like it's her second time on an airplane she was going this insane you know so we're you know we're florida you know country you know bumpkins because listen 90 percent of Florida is basically pick up trucks and dairy farms and you know hey it's not all beach it ain't all my miami trust me so so they have so okay so it's it's it's the it's new york city's personal jail yes it's like it's like the city jail when you go to rikers island uh whatever a person get caught for a crime

They ship from the Rikers Island until either they bailout or they go on trial or Rikers Island's where you see your faith. No inmate is on Rikers Island for more than two years. If your trial is that huge of a deal, four years tops. You know, if you've got a lawyer that wants to keep you down there for, you know, health reasons and other reasons, other than that, two years, you're going to find out your faith, whether you're going home or you're going upstate New York to serve. your sentence. Right. So Rikers Island is what? A barge? It's like a huge barge, or is it really an island? It's an island. It's an island. And it's a barge. I thought it was a huge barge. Because they do have break off parts, different jails within the city. And one of them is in a Bronx called the barge. It's a floating, it's a floating jail that they also house inmates there as well, where Rikers Island get overpopulated.

So you got the job, you get the call, you go down there. How much do you get any training? How much training did you get? Training was about two months. And in two months, have Likers? No. Okay. Training was in a training facility in Queens.

and um what you do there is i'm i'm gonna give you the the professional version and then the real word professional version hey you're a correction also take the oath you know uphold the badge uh this is the do's and don'ts about ragas island don't do this don't do that you're going to teach you a little bit um it i'm not going to say it's karate it's just little methods to protect yourself because you're going to learn like if you're not some kind of black belt or really take training, you're going to have to be able to protect yourself until help arrives. So they just teach you little tactics that what you could do to whatever you're going through to not make it so bad, I mean to protect yourself for just a while until help comes.

So it's a lot of rules and regulations that they teach you in the academy. But now that's the professional part. We're going to teach you everything, all the rules and regulations. Now, the real part is when you become a correctional officer and you will, walk through those gates, forget everything you learned in the academy. You forget it because it's not really like that. The academy is, and I found out, is if you do something wrong, we taught you the right way. We already know how you're going to do once you get there.

But we taught you the right way. So now, in order to get you in trouble because you were taught the right way, we also know that the right way is not the way that is ran in there, but to cover us. see people think the academy is to teach you how to be a correction officer no the academy is the blue the you know all the blue paper that says we taught them not to do that we told them not to do that not to do this even though we know in order to run the jail you got to cut some corners so right yeah I was going to say like um you know and it like the at like the medium in the feds they you know so it's it's they don't allow segregation they don't allow segregation they don't allow you know they don't allow anything like that but then there that's the that's the

that's the version that you get on the computer but the truth is all the black guys are are housed with or at least in the cells with the black guys you know they're sitting at their own table they have their own TV the white guys have their TV the black guys have a couple TVs because there's more of them the Hispanics have a TV like it's it's very you know they they naturally segregate themselves but the COs also I I want to say they do encourage it because they realize it keeps the peace. It may not be politically correct, but if you start putting the black guys and the white guys cells and the Hispanic cells and just say, oh, no, no, you're going to go in that cell.

Now we've got a problem because now you guys are in danger. They're going to get hurt. They're going to attack each other. So it's like I understand what the paperwork says. I understand what the rule says. This is going to be a problem. Like you're going to, you might as well take me to the shoe. even if this guy doesn't attack me and it doesn't become a problem within a day or two you know it's going to be a problem with a lot of times it'll be a problem with your own people yes you got to get out of that cell well then you got to beat that dude out of that cell it's like you're like I'm here for a tax violation like stab it anybody we're talking about mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah so I hear I hear you're saying it's the same thing with this with the COs like this might be what happened but here's what you write on the report yes no definitely a lot of

that a lot of a lot of i slipped in the showers right so you so you when you do show up what what happens like i mean did you have a you know what was your plan going in there like hey i'm going to work here 20 years and retire or you know what i feel it out you know my upbringing i always took jobs that i needed at the time not jobs that i wanted right escaping a it escaped from the inner city hood. I thought the military was a way out. So when I came home, like, maybe I could be wrong. I don't recall anybody saying when I grew up, I want to be a correction officer. So, you know, you hear about the benefits of being law enforcement and stuff like that. So what they do to you when you first get in the academy within that first week,

get your uniform, a lot of boring orientation classes on Monday. That, Tuesday, if you start Monday on the academy, that Tuesday, you're on Rikers Island. That Tuesday, they take you to Rikers Island and they walk you around Rikers Island. And this is the term of anointment, meaning you look at yourself and you decide if you want this job right now early before you even go through the academy. They take you and they put you in the worst jail, they let you walk around. It's like a sort of like a. Sort of like a. tourist attraction like you're all lined up there and they take you through the cells they take you to the heart and criminals and have you ever seen the the scarce straight program on tv where they take

kids and they let inmates intimidate them and and say things to them so that's like your second day in the academy so they can find out if you true no you got to say within yourself if you're going to quit or if you're going to keep this job. A lot of people, like, three or four people quit. Like, I'm not doing this, you know. So that's how they weed you out to see if you're going to stay a correction officer. So me being young, I was just taking the job. I wanted a job.

I wanted to do better for my family. So, you know, it hit all the marks, benefits, pension, good pay, you know, a couple, you know, a little bit of hazard with your life. But other than that, I, I remember. really didn't have a plan. I was just, I was this young and let me go and give me a job and see where it takes me. So, so I was going to say what I don't think I don't think what what people realized too is like there's a huge difference between let's say a low custody. So I was in in federal prison, right? Like I was in, I did three years in a medium. I did, you know, a year in the U.S. Marshall's holdover. It's basically like almost like a county jail. And then I did three years in the

medium and then nine years in in a low custody you know it was a low security so but you know but a a city or a county jail like you've got there are very few guys are locked up at coleman low because they're violent you know now there may be violence you know in their past there may be some violence but there's not a lot like let's say 20 maybe 10% of these guys actually have some kind of violence in their past, you know, but in county jails, you know, these are you're getting guys that do home invasions. They do, you know, carjackings. They do like these are, this is why guys will always say stuff to me in the comments. They're like, they're like, oh, you wouldn't survive in a state prison. You're right. I don't commit state crimes. I don't have to worry about

that. Like I'm not concerned. Like I'm filling out paperwork, bro. I'm not rob. I'm not kicking in somebody's door. I'm not burglarizing owls. Like, I'm not concerned about it. But that's my problem. The problem is when these guys talk about most people can think state president. And that there is. They're violent people. There are a lot of violence in those guys. Yes. I was working at high classification

house. Everybody. I can't do it. I can't do it. You know what? I'm going to be honest with you. First day, walking in there, the inmates know you knew. But first of all, you got a light blue shirt on. So there ain't no. you got shiny shoes on, so they know you're new.

And you know what? I'm born and raised in Harlem, a hard project, Polargrounds projects. I'm not saying I'm Mr. Tough Guy, but I've seen some things as a kid. Yeah. So now here I am Marine.

I'm a Marine. I went through boot camp. I fought in the war. So I'm coming home, six foot three, nine percent body fat. You couldn't tell me I was in pretty good shape. as a big guy, right?

Bro, when that door slammed behind me and it's sunk in, forget all the training, forget all the talking, this is it. You're here now. And the horror stories, all that comes back to you, like, okay, there's nothing to protect me but my presentation. Right.

That door slammed behind me, and I can hear my heartbeat. I gave my heartbeat because it's self-preservation like even if you're walking in the street and you and you're in a riot and you got to protect yourself against 30 guys

like realistically speaking, Bruce Lee, the toughest of the toughest. You're not going to protect yourself from 30 guys and all that mentally comes to play like you know, okay, I'm here. That door slammed and then you know the rules and regulations that you're my

partner, but you're the officer. I'm the big officer. They've got to be inside with the inmates walking around, making sure they're not hanging themselves up and raping one another and beating one another up. Duke, I'm only one man. You know, so I had to learn that a lot of prisons in jail, the consequences of their actions cheat them in check, meaning, yeah, you could beat me up. You could do what you want to, but you know you're not going away. So you know after you beat me up, tell me, do whatever you want, you know you're pretty much done. So that's the logic behind

two officers to 100 inmates. They know momentarily, you may have a victory if you beat up an officer or whatever the case may be, but you know it's coming. And do you want to catch the raft of what's coming? So that's what stops a lot of inmates from doing things. But I was terrified. Bro, I was terrified.

I didn't think I was built because before I was in a criminal. No. Right. I wasn't. So. So, yeah, I was going to say you're saying retaliation, like the inmates would always say, well, you know, they can't retaliate. You're about going out of your mind, bro.

Like you can smart off to an officer and five minutes later, you walk in your cell. He's got, he's opened up your locker, your shits everywhere. He's throwing contraband, contraband, contraband, contraband, contraband, he's just throwing stuff in a bag and you're like, oh, man. Even if he says it's not contraband, I'm never getting it back. Yes. You know, well, you could fill out a BP this or fill out of BP that or, you know, they have these forms. You're like, you're never, you're never seeing anything. Even if you win, you're not getting anything.

Like, you're at their mercy. You can't win. So it's just, instead they just take it out on each other. You're absolutely right. And I'm glad you said that because a lot of people don't understand. You can hate law enforcement all you want to. You can hit the cops. The cops, the police officers outside. You got more of a leverage with cameras and stuff like that. when you become an inmate as a correction officer I decide whether you live or die I decide that

you know you don't think you have to kiss nobody ass and you got can you curse on this thing yeah you know you might think I'm a man and I'm not going to bow down and listen

you piss off the right officer I've seen worse revenge tactics yeah and riffing up your your legal paperwork that you work so hard to get that could have your freedom in your in your hand so yeah yeah they don't understand that their life is in the correct sponsor's hand yeah i um yeah i don't think i ever i never

wrote anything up i never because i knew it's just not going to in the end it's not going to go your way i'll buy another one i'll order i'll call my lawyer and get them to send in some more paperwork i'll i'll get another one from commissary i'll you know and i listen i'm polite to everybody i'm polite I would say, you know, I could, I could have lunch with, with Stalin and Adolf Hitler and I would be perfectly nice. Oh, how's it going? Yeah. What's, yeah, it didn't work out, you know. Um, so yeah, I was always nice. Um, I never had any problems with any of the officers either. But then again, the thing is in the feds, you almost never see them. You know, once you get to prison, you have very little communication or contact with the, uh, with the COs. It's where in, you know, that there's,

there's like one officer for every 300 and some odd, you know, guys. So, and, and honestly, they're pretty well behaved because everybody's got their, they get their routine. The problem is, is that, like, the jail that you're in, like, these guys are all, they're just sitting in their cells for playing cars. They're just boredom is killing them. Yes. Yeah, it's, it's, so, so what happens? So you're working, what, 40 hours a week? How long, you know, how long are you working until until somebody approaches you? How does that happen?

Okay. Around and because I can't speak for other cities I can only talk about Rikers Island. When they put the posting up or they put it out their advertise that they're hiring.

You take the test, you get the job. But however, you're living in the same neighborhoods as these criminals are. So now they tell you in the academy, you're going to see people you know.

There's no way around it. Now, it's kind of awkward because the rules and regulations of the academy once you become a correction officer, no interaction with anybody who has no felons. You can't be hanging out with felons, even your family member. You can't be, a guy

got in trouble one time going to his cousin's wedding, and he's in the wedding photo. You know, the wedding part. He takes a picture. They found out of Biden, asked him, like, why? Do you know this guy? There's a known felon, and he's way on the end of the picture. You're in here with this person.

So when they say you get approached, there's people in your neighborhood that get arrested and they see you. You know them. Right. You know them. Like, I'm going to be honest with you. One of the stories I have to tell you is that I beat up my best friend. I beat up my best friend for the sake that he was an inmate.

And I'm all of us. This is how close proximity that you know people. So now if I know you, I know your mom. They go to church together. We had to high school together. I played on the basketball team together. If I need a cigarette, if I need drugs, you know me. Right.

You know, sort of spent. So I'm going to test your loyalty to that badge versus your loyalty to us as kids coming up. You know, maybe I saved your butt a time or two when we were getting jumped by various games. Kings or Robbins. So, you know, because you go through things as a kid in high school with people who you took the right path, you became a officer, and they took the wrong path and they're inmate. Right. You know, and they know you.

And they feel, okay, if you may just say, okay, I bring you something there on a strip that my mom and your mom go to church together. Right. You know, yeah. I was going to say it's impossible to separate them. Like in, in Coleman, if you, like, there was a. guy a buddy of mine one time who saw an officer that he knew like it was a friend of his brothers and the officer when he saw him he kind of waited a little bit and then when he got when he was not

you know in like a visible place he went up to him he said bro don't tell anybody that you know me he said they're gonna because they'll ship you immediately yes because this is the prison this is you know and and so another time i was at the medium and there was a guy who went to high school with a female correctional officer and this guy he's in her office at she's letting them out after count they're talking he's sitting on their desk and i remember my my cousin was locked out with me and he came up he goes how long you think that's going to last i said i don't know how what do you think is oh he goes he's gone in a week he's got he was i'm surprised he's not gone already sure enough he's on the pack out like two days later he doesn't have and he's like

well i don't understand and everybody's going what are you doing like what did you think like you didn't even try and hide it, bro. You're telling everybody, oh, she ain't going to say nothing. The inmates will say something. Yes. In Rikers, like, there's just no way to, you couldn't keep officers or the inmates. You have nowhere to ship them. You just have to deal with it.

You know what? It's too many. Right. You know too many people. Okay, here's the rule. If it's not so much if you know someone, but definitely if they were a family member, you definitely got to let people know and they got to get out of you.

You can't ship off everybody you know. You got to pull them to the side and check them. When I say check them, you got to make sure that they know if they violate what you tell them that you will get them hurt up. You will put the beats on them.

So now, okay, I know your mom, okay, we went to school together, but this is my job. And I'm telling you, I'm going to do my job. So a lot of times, once you put it in that perspective, very little people become hard-headed. Now, they will go back and call people, oh, you know, Gary's in here. He's acting like an officer, like he said. You know. Like he's a police or something.

Yes. Yes, because, but, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm guilty of seeing friends, helping out friends, you know, while I was there. Sometimes it's human nature, you know, but you generally, you don't want to jeopardize your livelihood. You got this job for a reason. Bro, I'm sorry that you took a left when I took a right. I'm sorry you ended up on that side of the fence. But if you really are my friend and our parents, you know, our family,

intertwined like that, you will respect what I'm doing. Now, I'm not going to go out my way to do you bodily harm, but in the line of work, that happened to me. I had to beat up one of my friends, because it's my job. It's my job. So that's a

hard thing to do to come back to the neighborhood after you're going to put the beats down on one of your friends. Everybody knows, because everybody's family is right there close proximity. So, yeah, that's tough. That's a tough part about being the um correction officer but guess what you got to remember you took this job to get away

from all that right i was going to say how long that doesn't have to take but a few years of dealing with that and now i can move out of this area yeah you know so yeah i had a guy on uh um i interviewed a guy whatever uh yesterday actually he was talking about like the different he lives in florida now but he grew up um in new york and he's like you don't understand like you like you see these guys all the time he's like it's not like in florida i can bump into somebody in the mall in florida and have an issue with the guy and never see him again he's like that's not what he's in new york you're going to see this guy even if you live four blocks away multiple times in the next month so yeah i can i can only imagine how many people you must have known so at at what point you know at what

point like how many years go by before you kind of cross that line uh i was roughly a correction officer like two years because what happened I mean what happened was in the military me and uh my wife was on shaky terms when I was already in the in the Gulf War in the war so coming home was kind of like let's try to make this work type of thing and being a correctional officer coming in with a shaky marriage is the wrong thing to do so evidently, we found, no, divorced. And child support set in. I think I had been a correction for like two years. Child support set in. Shredded my check, destroyed me. You know, I had my own apartment. Car got repoed, had to move back in with mom. All of that went down now. Up into that

time, I think I was a pretty solid officer, meaning I saw a couple of people. I saw a couple of people a lot of people from my neighborhood who probably, hey, can you bring me this? Can you bring me that? And no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, but that don't stop them from today, Monday, you said no. Friday, you may say, yeah, they're going to ask you all the time. They're going to test you all the time. Right. So up until to that point, I was pretty solid until I started getting my paycheck after all the deductions and the reas from child support. And the opportunities were still there for me to be corrupt. Right. You know, so I remember the first time I did it.

Terrified. Like, if I know you, right, I know you don't smoke cigarettes. I know you don't drink. So nobody can't walk up to me and tell me, hey, yo, I saw a duke down smoking a blunt and drinking some Hennessy on the corner. Come on. I know him. So now, Mayor Giuliani stopped cigarettes in all city agencies

throughout the city, and guess what? And guess what? The jails are city agencies. So in commissary, they had to stop selling cigarettes. So if you came to jail and you were a smoker, you better get that patch. You better get some kind of whatever you're going to need. So that opened up a very lucrative opportunity to make money. At the time, a pack of cigarettes wasn't even $10 at the time. Now, you know you get 25 cigarettes, 15 cigarettes in a pack.

one cigarette you got to learn I mean you probably know they'll take that cigarette break it down until about three cigarettes called rollies and if you're a smoker

you'll pay up to $20 for one of those rollings $20 and I don't know by any other jail when you go to come and say a bag of chips is 10 cents so does is a quarter so you live in like a king or for $20 in your commissary so now you have a whole pack of cigarettes to do what they call juggling.

I mean, it's like trading for sneakers, trading for something because people want to smoke that bad. Right. So once he put the, it's called Quality of Life, laws and effect, and now nobody can smoke in the city buildings. Even if you work in the corporate America and you work in a city building, you got to go downstairs outside in the coal, smoke your cigarette. So that opened up the door for me.

And I'm on the first time. I just want to put it out there for all officers who think that you're going to get away with it, bro. There's no smooth way about it. Sooner or later, you're going to get caught. Now, I brought a pack of cigarettes, supposedly the surefire way, somebody from my neighborhood, who I do. I know his family, so I really didn't think he was going to snitch on me or get me in trouble. and I needed the money. So I bought

Topps Tobacco. At the time, a Poucher Topped Tobacco cost like $2. Gave me $300. I spent $2. It's a nice profit. So, but if you know me,

like you're my boy, you know me. And I'm coming there, I'm sweating, my forehead's sweating in my mind. He knows. He knows I have something on me. My heart he he the everybody's looking at me because they know I have something now in hindsight It's a it's a cigarette so it's not a drug or or nothing like that and I could be using it for personal use

But if you know I don't smoke cigarettes if you see you in the cigarette like what the hell are you doing with a cigarette inside the jail You right so all this is playing in my mind as I'm walking through the the the it's called the magnumina where they search all along because everybody's what do you search but guess what if you're my boy and we play ball together we just came from the next game nobody's searching me you know what I'm saying you might be dating my sister I mean this is how close we are so and nobody's going to think Gary is bringing in contraband right so uh and I had to because I already got paid the $300 I already got that I get the money first and then I told him I will bring it so I'm taking all the precautions I'm wiping off the the pack of the you're not going to find no fingerprints from me on this cigarette if he get caught with these

this pouch of tobacco so I stuff it in my vest I come and fully dressed in my correction officer uniform and I walk right through and you know I'm talking smack about the basketball game and and I'm sweating they don't see I'm nervous as hell because I'm a clown now normally you know jovial cracking jokes I'm dead serious let me get to my housing area to get this thing off me right so they have something called muster

where we all sit there and it's like attendance uh john you here gary you here chuck you here all the while everything is moving in slow motion bro it's moving slow motion because i've never done anything like this before but i was desperate so i get to my housing area now there's other there's another officer there that i got to wait for the opportunity so all this is it's really all this takes by half hour but it's an eternity when you really know you're doing wrong yeah you really know you're going wrong. So I see the inmate. I let him out of his cell, right, to clean up. He's cleaning up. So the officer goes to the bathroom. At that time, the officer goes to the bathroom. This is when cameras was in everywhere. They didn't have no cameras. So I quickly took it out my vest,

and I gave it to him, and he went to his cell. Now I'm clear. Unless there's a camera, unless there's forensics with the fingerprints, I'm clear. But in my mind, he's going to tell. somebody's going to say something they're going to jump under it from under this desk behind the door somebody's just waiting for me to give them that tobacco and at the end of the day when nobody jumped out and said nothing nobody jumped out the trunk of my car when i got home nobody was waiting at my door saying aha we got you and i breathed the side of relief and i held that 300 bucks in my hand uh that was that was the turning point right that was that was easy i can do that yeah Yeah. And I did that. Every time I got away with something, I became emboldened by it. I felt like, I'm good at this. Yes. You think you're good. Yeah. Yeah. No, he just hadn't caught up with you. Mm-hmm. How did that guy, so you're saying they're asking you all the time, just finally one day you just said, yeah, all right. That was it? Like he approached you. Yeah. When they're asking you, you're telling them, no, get out of here. Get out of it. Get out of it. Right. So, someone, obviously they look like, okay, he's never going to break.

But in the academy, they tell you if you bring them a stick of gum, a stick of a bubble gum, you'll bring them in a gun. Yeah. So they say, you know, meaning these inmates got nothing but time to sit here and study you. Extremely manipulative. I come in. I'll tell you, yeah, me and my old lady having problems. I'm getting divorced.

I got to pay taxes. My son is this, snap. I'm telling you my whole business. their ears is to the wall opportunity yes so when they're asking you let them hear you

go and do divorce and let you pay or I'm telling you I leave and you're talking crap about me and you tell my buddy yes old lady taking them to the cleaners whatever they pray on stuff like that

right you know and when so as an officer I know who propositioned me so when when when it got real bad for me I know who to go to right to get it done and that's what I did you know once you paid or once you got you brought that contraband in how long was it before you did something else or you know at that point you realized okay I can do this period I'll do it every once in while yes that's how it goes right i was only doing it like when i needed it i need three or four hundred bucks i make a deal

boom and then it got to it got bad it got really bad till i was bringing in like about i'm gonna tell you the story i had like 20 pouches of tobacco say i'm a big guy and correction officers they have this vest it's like a bulletproof breast but it's a staff who vest for correction officers so with me being a big guy and then wearing the bulky vest you're not going to search my vest. So I would take the inserts out of the vest and stuff them with tobacco and go to my housing area. Now, good thing. Well, I'm going to say, listen, I'm just going to tell you because I was in the moment.

You don't, you don't have to, I hear you. Okay. Here it is. Corrections try different tactics to catch officers, bringing. contraband inside the jail. Right. So one time I'm coming through with them 20 pouches of tobacco and I see a friend of mine. And I'm like, we was in the correction of academy together.

His name was Klein. Hey, Klein was going on. I'm talking to him. And then it hit me. Klein got promoted to the canine unit. So I'm looking at Klein leaning up on a desk. But under the desk where you can't. can't see is this is this canine dog that sniffs for drugs right so if you were to come by

and he smelled drugs that dog would react i didn't have drugs i had tobacco so i noticed that and i said oh in my mind holy crap you know yeah but now i get to my housing area uh you know we all like family we all like friends so i get a phone call from security listen the search is coming to your housing area. The search is when periodically 10 to 50 officers get together and they go to a housing area and search for contraband weapons and stuff like that to shake the inmates up. Yeah. So I got the shakedown crew. Yeah. They're coming to do a shakedown in my area. Here I am. I got 20 pouches of tobacco and I just had gave an inmate five pouches. I hurried up and took my

pouches and put it in the ceiling in my office. They never searched the office and station. Right. So they went inside the housing area and I know I just gave this guy pouches of tobacco. And I'm sitting in, I'm looking at them, search inmate by inmate. And they're getting closer and closer to the guy I gave the tobacco to. So what I did was I jumped into action.

I went out and joined the search to help them search the inmates. So I went to the guy I know was dirty with tobacco and I yelled at him and I got aggressive with him and I patted him down and I threw them inside the cell and told him to close cell number 18. So they're looking at me like I'm helping them with the search. Right. But honestly, I'm getting me and this guy out of trouble. You know what I'm saying? God forbid they say, no, forget that.

We're going to search them anyway. I'd have been dead. I'd have been dead in order. So that was one of my scary, one of my scary moments. Was your concern that he's going to get caught and then he's going to flip and when they say, where'd you get this, he's going to say, man, listen, you know. That that was your concern that, you know, Hayward gave it to me. You know, that that's what he's going to say.

Yes. But then again, these guys, intelligence is not dumb. Even if he didn't say that, when you catch an inmate with contraband, it's normal. wrapped in a balloon or it's normally wrapped in something that, you know, they secrete in a behind, something like that. So to have a fresh pouch or tobacco, like he just bought it from the corner store. Yeah, it's one of the guards brought it in. That's in this housing, in this housing unit. And that's very comfortable with doing it. Like, you did it more than once for you to, for us to catch it, that fresh. So even though they really couldn't prove if he kept

his mouth shut, even though they really couldn't brew it. Of course, now they're going to watch you. Now they're on you. Now you're exposed. So that's, that day went by, smooth. You said 20, 20 pouches? Yes. At 300, that's 6th brand.

Yes. Wow. Well, what happened with me is I had a, first of all, I'm not trying to put my vices on any correction officer. I drunk a lot due to stress from the job and stress from going on through, I'm not making no excuses. I'm just telling you the reality. And I had a gambling problem. I had to shoot dice with the best of it.

So those two combined with not having any money was the rest of people for disaster. So I can go in a gambling spot and win five or six grand or lose five, six grand. And with no worries because I know I could go to jail and get that back. So, it's not good. It's not good. It was terrible. But when I'm in it, when I'm living it, it justified it means when I was in it. Does anybody on the street?

Because by now you're divorced. Yes. You're seeing your kid periodically. I'm assuming your wife got custody. Yes. So you're seeing your son. Is it a son, right? My son and daughter.

Okay. You're seeing your son and daughter, you know, whatever, you know, a few times a week. Do you have a girlfriend at this point? You know, I had a couple of girlfriends. You know, I'm young. Listen, I'm still, you can be broke, right? But as long as you got this badge and run around the hood with a gun, there's going to be somebody willing to be with you at all times. So are you still, do you have your own place now?

Or you're still hanging out at your? Well, I'm in between. I got, I still live with my moms. But now I have a female friend that I'm living with. And now the money, the money is coming in because now I actually make a lot of trips with tobacco to make. money but then once i started doing other things like bringing in cell phones if it were if it was an inmate's birthday i would uh you know those airport little nips of liquor that they give you the single serving size yeah yes guess what 500 dollars fucking it's your birthday your mom your mom wants

to do something for your birthday either you give me 500 or listen i'm gonna tell you i was a piece of shit Because I was, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in this life. So if your mom didn't have my whole $500, she could always supplement payment in various ways. And for $500, I will bring the little nip of liquor, put it in an iced tea bottle, lock you in your cell because, come on, everybody who don't smoke weed, if you're not a weed smoker, you could smell that 10 blocks away. nobody in there got liquor so they're going to smell liquor right in there so my thing is the agreement is if i bring this to you you got to lock in for the day now you're lock in for your birthday you'll be drunk you know and you enjoy your birthday happy birthday you know i got 500 bucks you got a little sip of liquor you know your does your your girlfriend that you're

with does she know what's going on does anybody on street know what's going on no nobody guess guess what i'm going to tell you and you know one of the things one of the hardest things for me doing this whole ordeal was to tell my mom look her in the face and tell her that i'm guilty because you know your mom don't believe you your mom's going to fight the whole world for you i know he's right in the governor they framed them my mom i had to tell her that i was guilty now the image that i had was gary joined the marian He's a decorated war veteran And now he's a correction officer

Right So only few people Where I went to the gambling spot Knew that I was a CEO Because These guys were in and out of jail So they would see me in the jail And then he would see me on the street

Now Some people who didn't know That I was a correction officer Because when you were correctional officer Your hours rotate every week It's something called The Wheel one week you're seven to three next week you're three to eleven next week you work in midnights so at different times i would be in the gambling spot during the day during the night this and that

so nobody knew and i had money so a lot of people didn't know that i was a correction officer i was getting my pay well my pay wasn't really anything but due to child support but my other activities and then i would do overtime to make up for the money that i was losing so i was making pretty decent money. So nobody really knew what I was doing until I got busted and I was on the front page of the local newspaper. That's when

the holy cow, then people were like, I knew it because they was like, I knew correction officers to make that kind of money that you would spend it. Yeah. You're say it's like Mike McDow has had multiple businesses. He's driving a brand new

Corvette. It's like, what are you doing? You're a police officer. and at that time when he was a cop he was a corrupt cop in New York like cops weren't making anything like obviously you're doing something so yes um what i was going to say is so how did it like how did you how did it progress from you're thinking it's just tobacco and then it becomes a cell phone like did you think so like um anybody who's doing crime when you get away you get away with it for a couple of times you think you think you invented the wheel you think you covered your ass where nobody's going to leave back to you and nobody's going to leave back to you in the way and you got people in place that are trustworthy now

because y'all don't make money to go. So like a businessman, you're supply and demand. People, they were putting clamps down, tapping inmate phone calls, stuff like that.

Of course, you know, inmates are not supposed to be having sex in jail. So what happened with me is I kind of became like a businessman. Supply and demand. I've seen the need, whatever they needed.

I found the way to get it to them safely. Meaning I would have people at the time. Western Union needed the money. Right? And it was a female correction officer that was willing. A willing participant. Now, I'm going to tell you something funny.

A reporter read my book and did an article in the paper on full spread how I bring in liquor, coutes, tobacco, cocaine, and prostituted female correction officers. Right. If you look at it,

maybe I did, but not prostitution like you would say. When I look at prostitution, it's like, okay, I'm going to beat you up if you don't go in and service this guy

and give me the money. Right. To me, that's prostituting and pimping women. Yeah. If the female is, is willing, and I'm just protection. I'm not forcing her to do anything.

She just paying me to make sure she's okay. And what it is when I was corrupt, I knew the real guys in there that made a lot of money on the street. So I knew they would pay. So there's another thing, correction officers, if you're out there doing bad, inmates are going to talk regardless. If they've got a correctional officer in their pocket,

that gives them status. So if you think that they're just going to be quiet and, you know, y'all going to have this thing going for a hundred million years, no, it's not going to happen. So once she got wind of what I was doing, she propositioned me because the way it went is I knew the guys that was doing stuff. She got time. She got, because a lot of times, God, you know, it makes me a lot to a year, my family, I make a lot of money in the street. And then when she would service them, she'll come up short. So the way it worked is They wanted to have sex

She was willing to have sex $1,500 a pop I get $500 She gets a grand And she did it like two or three times a week How does that conversation go Between you and the inmate

And you and her Okay first of all It has to be an inmate that I'm already working with Right No new guy out of random This and that so of course any inmate wants sex from you know you know if they can afford it yeah so we're making money guys are paying lawyers with money that we're we're making in right and so once

i know i got wind that he had the money and he wanted it to happen what i would do is i would get the money, give her her grand, take my 500, in the morning, when nobody's there but me on post, she would come, take care of them in a utility closet. Because remember, at the time, ain't no cameras all over the place. Right. And she would take care of them. And you have to figure out a way to get both these people at the same place. And inmates don't have, they don't have the run of the facility. They have, they can only go some places, some. A officer can take an inmate whatever. Yeah. When I first became an officer and it was, you know, gunhole, I'm going to be the best CO ever. It was a female that were coming in my housing area that didn't work in my housing area.

It was an inmate. It was divine. I'm not going to call no Gromian Divine, but he's divine. He has silk sheets and satin shirts because you've got to remember in Rikers Island, until you get convicted, you wear your own clothes. Really? No, only when you go upstate and become, and go to prison, you get the greens and everybody wear the same thing. Right, because, darling, you're going back and fork, you've got to have your own clothes, sneakers, whatever. And this guy had alligator shoes, expensive shoes, and silk pants and sheets on his bed and all the kind of stuff. And nobody ever went to his cell to challenge him to test them or anything. And this female will come get him and walk him around in jail, and I'm new.

So that means now in hindsight All these other officers knew about this guy on the street He was somebody Right So she would come And no certain inmates had certain privileges So now When I'm running my housing area

And if me and a female Know what's going on There's nobody else there So I would let the inmate out Tell him go and sweep and mop over here I'll go get the supplies and do this and that When he would come out she would service them

sent them back to send them back up it didn't it wasn't a marathon so it was easy for her to take her and it was easy 50 hundred bucks so and I and this is a very superficial thing for me to say

okay and ask you what this chick look like uh it's not a superficial because you know better I'm saying I'm sure she was I mean I'm sure she was I mean I've, you know, maybe, maybe she had a great personality or something.

I don't know, but you know, because, okay, please, this is my disclaimer. I'm not saying all female correction officers, right? But throughout my 13 years dealing with the prison system. They're a rough bunch. Yes. I've only, in the, it's no. I've seen two that I thought, man, I'd, I'd nail her on the street, Like, I've only seen two in 13 years.

I'm going to be honest with you. On Rikers Island, I can say there was a lot of fine female seals, but none of them fit the criteria of selling their body to an inmate. So when you ask you about them, please forgive me, you do know, it's the not so great lookers, the low, because inmates play on these females, they got low self-esteem, bro. I've seen a female wait for an inmate to get out of prison and be with him, right? Now, me and you, me and you men, like, I think, I could be wrong.

Any ugly female out here can get sex with somebody. Somebody will definitely go to your house where nobody can see and meet you somewhere where nobody knows everything. So it's not, to me, I think it's no such thing as a female that can't get sex. But these inmates, they play on you. They see you those, they see that you, I'm just going to say, they see that you're ugly. They see you get you low subesteem. They tell you you're beautiful.

They treat you like you the best thing that ever happened. And guess what? If you're not getting those compliments, if you're not getting that kind of attention out in the street, you easy pickings. These inmates ain't got nothing but time. I'm going to tell you what they used to do. If they knew a certain female were coming to work,

we plighted. We all plighting. So we'll get Josh, who's the, guy who works out, you can see all his muscle, six-packing everything, and he got a penis, but a foot long. Now, if he goes up and flashes a female officer, he knows he'll know he's going to get his ass beat and he's going to the hospital. He knows that. But if he, one of our duties is, you know, checking the MA cells, looking in that window, making sure the in a man, they're hanging themselves or doing something that ain't not supposed to be doing. So when she's making her rounds, everybody knows they're tap the wall, they give the signal, she's coming.

So he would accidentally be sleeping with his Johnson out. Right. Right. And she would come and accidentally see his Johnson. She may be on the wall, hey, cover yourself up. Oh, I'm sorry, C.O. I didn't know. I was sleeping. So now he's not in trouble, but she's not going to forget that I saw this guy's thing.

Right. The next throughout time, if she's giving him special privileges, is if she don't allow nobody to talk to her. Now he's having conversations with her. So now everybody's putting on there. See if you could bring, she'll bring us this. So they're all plotting. They all plotting.

And it's going to be to the time where if she really, if he really gets in her head, she's going to have sex with him. Yeah. She's going to make a way. So now this individual, because it was a couple of females that was with it throughout my career. You know, and besides their correctional officer pay, Some of them are making two or three grand a week. And you can always tell because they blow themselves up

because all of a sudden they got nice cars, nicer cars. And they're coming in with meat coats on and stuff like that. So, you know, in hindsight, when you sit back and look and you know the layer of land, no. So, yeah. So what about cell phones? Like, what does a cell phone go for?

At the time, they had these little small, small phones like this. Yeah. A flip phone. That I'm going to be honest with you, that is easy for an inmate to booth inside his behind. Right. To regulate that,

they had calling cards where you could buy 10 minutes worth of time, 15 minutes worth of time. So depending on the situation, how bad you wanted to talk to somebody that don't, and your lawyer and you don't want to use the Rikers Island phone, I'll be easy on you, 250 to 500. you know, I give you the phone.

You get 10 minutes to talk to whoever you want to talk to. You bring my phone back into the next time somebody wants to use it. I mean, I was running my organization like it was a business, cell phone, liquor, this and that. So I mean, it sounds crazy, but it's not further from the truth. So you're keeping the phone. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I had an inmate one time trying to keep the phone.

And I had to put a hit out. Oh, no. what do you mean how what do you mean a hit like this is what it is right we want you establish yourself and you're doing dirt i'm going to say doing dirt nobody no inmate wants that messed up so somebody comes along and it's just like if you're doing selling drugs in the street don't be shooting and killing nobody because then you're going to bring the cops here and it's bad for business so there's the same thing in the jail don't be fighting and cutting and stabbing because we got a good thing going right here.

Anybody who steps out of line, I don't even have to say anything. So when I say I put a hit out on, I just let it be known that, listen, if I don't get my phone back by the end of the day, it's going to be a problem. And the way things happen, if, forget me being corrupt, day-to-day basis, if inmates to prevent them from fighting, you may have 30 inmates, two of them get into a fight. When us as a squad coming there, we're smacking and beating down everybody because these two individuals fought. And that's the way it was. So this prevented anybody, you know what's going to happen.

Now, if I beat an inmate up because he didn't have nothing to do with your argument, when I leave, it's another problem. I was going to say, you can always just go and say, look, I'll just go, I'm just going to pick 10 cells randomly. And I'm going to find something from every one of you guys. And I'm going to take it until I get my ship back. And they'll, you know, and all you look like you're doing it is I'm just doing my job. I'm shaking. That's it. I'm supposed to shake down so many cells a day.

And I hear two or three guys and I know I'm going to get something good. They're going to be upset. Well, he didn't give you back my phone. Neither is to say I had a bunch of sneakers screeching and scratching and going on. And I got my phone back. Right. And he went to the clinic. So what do you make in a month doing this?

I couldn't pinpoint I think at one time I had about I guess what I very rarely did I have to take my own money out the bank so my check direct deposit so I was living off what I was doing in the street

so at one time I could say I had about 40,000 40,000 sitting on my bed stacked up and various different times because I was losing a lot of money gambling making it back splurging so I can't just say oh definitely I made this amount but I I made pretty decent money I had

more than a couple of cars you know to me I was living the life of a drug dealer that was out on the street several hours law enforcement right so the money came and it went so how often like not how often but were there any times that the the, I don't, I don't say upper echelon, but basically like the, I don't know what, I don't know what the ranks are in, in the state, but it's like the lieutenants, the warden, the assistant warden, that, you know, and I don't know, you know, in federal prison, let's say they know stuff's going on. If it becomes blatant, then they have to, they have to investigate it, find somebody, and then they have to act extremely offended. I can't believe you would do this. It'd be like, come on, stop, bro. You know this is happening. So I'm saying, were there any investigation? that came close to you, but you skated the investigation, or it didn't, or nothing happened until a boom, it just came down?

Nothing happened to a boom, but I had somebody in security, right? Tell me that word on the street is, no, I'm going to tell you what happened one time, where I think the investigation on me started. You had the Latin Kings and the Bloods about to fight. in the mess hall. So we had all the officers gearing up, putting on riot gear about to go and try to defuse something that's about to happen. So me, just being who I am, walked into the mess hall in the middle of all this hostility that was going back and forth between blacks and Hispanics. As soon as I walk in there, everybody calms down. Everybody calms down. Everybody goes and sit down.

and today at the table. I'm unaware of what was going on before I got there. So there's a captain that turns and look at me. And she says, who are you? And I said, I'm Officer Hayward. You know, I'm Officer Gary Hayward, blah, blah, blah. And she said, no, who are you? And when she asked me that, I got to chill because it's the same question,

but I know she's getting at because now these inmates is like, hey, what's up, hey, what you doing? It makes that I don't know. Right. Hey, what's up, Hey, Wood? So now I know somebody's rapping. Somebody's talking.

In my mind, the gig is up at that point. So then months will go by, and then a guy was like talking crap like security don't know what they're talking about. You know, they're talking about, if you want to get rid of all the drugs in the jail, get rid of Haywood. you know that that yeah it got like that so i i chilled out right right uh i chilled out to

wait a second hold on so at this point you're you're also bringing in drugs you're bringing what marijuana what is it everything or are you just i'm bringing in i'm bringing in i'm bringing the only thing i didn't bring in was i didn't bring in the weapons because i didn't want my housing area hot matter because the housing area i was in if you were in a newspaper you were in my Okay. Mad bodies, drug king pins, all kind of violence and stuff. I had the highest classification house in the jail. It caught eight upper. These are all high profile guys. Yes. Yes. I remember at the time the stalker, that stalked Serena Williams, the tennis player. Right. They arrested him and he was on the front page of the paper. The inmates knew he was coming to how I was in there. As soon as he walked in and there,

they put the tennis on TV to torture them. So once I felt that the gig was up, I tried to escape. When I tried to escape, I put in for a transfer to go to another jail. I want to start a new, you know, because in the height of what I was doing, I was bringing in cell phones, liquor, weed, and crack cocaine.

and I kind of knew that I wasn't the only officer doing it. That's how I elevated from from weed and cigarettes. An inmate came and told me, listen, over there on the north side, they're getting it over there.

I'm like, what do you mean getting it? He said, they're getting it. They got coke. Then he showed me a sample of what was, so I'm like, oh, I got competition. Now, at this time, nothing that was dawned on me that you're going to get caught.

Listen, I have my workers. I have my workers that work the staff kitchen. I have my workers that work the Muslim service. I have my workers that work the gym that work the yard. So I have people going and coming and it worked like clockwork. And guess what? To the point where I really didn't have to touch nothing, per se, and made money. So you think you're untouchable.

And, of course, don't forget, I got the shield in my integrity. And I'm going to say, hey, what, how dare you accuse me? you know so um we were at we were at uh the uh the uh the chow hall there was an issue the one officer and then some people started saying you want to get rid of the drugs in the jail get rid of heyward yeah so i i tried to get i i got transferred to another jail right and i said i'm going to be the model correction officer that's it for me uh at this time they had reduced the child support so I was making decent regular pay right and I said I'm going to stop um so I'm in I'm in a jail that's called the tombs right it's all for Rikers Island but it's like the courthouse

it's like as soon as you get arrested you go to tombs and then from the tombs you go to Rikers Island so I'm in there and like the first day first two days there everything's going well I'm working with a partner of mine and we're handing and it's like a intake area where you just got arrested like 30 years for 60 or one cell so it's feeding time and we give him these hard peanut butter sandwiches and a carton of milk right so i noticed an inmate old emma didn't get up off the floor to get his milk another emma is like if he don't want his milk or his peanut butter sandwich i'll take it so the officer not caring gave it to him long story short they went by the emma was dead in the pin right no and from officer neglect nobody

went over to check on them, tap them, make them stand up, because you're supposed to make them stand up to come, even if they don't want the peanut butter sandwich. Right. So that we know that you didn't get poked up or nothing happened to you in there. So I'm working there, and I'm thinking, I'm thinking I escaped. But lo and behold, I get modified. I get modified.

And I get modified by a captain that came in with, me. Matter of fact, me and his captain, I'm going to tell you what happened. I'm brand new on the job. And me and this captain both brand new on the job. So we're in this housing area. And the inmate is challenging me. And I'm, you know, being, you know, the CEO that I am, I tell him, when I come back from lunch, me and you, I'm going to take this shield off. I'm going to fuck you up. Right? Boom. I go to lunch. Alarm happens. So alarm, this is, you know, alarm is where all, all, officers sitting in a lunch area

and then a bell rings that lets us know another officer is having a problem that we all got to go to the housing area to help the officer. But we got to put the riot gear on and everything. Alam happens. I put the riot gear on and I run with the squad, like 12 of us down there and I noticed we go into

my housing area that I just left. When I get there, the officer comes out stuttering. She says gunshots. And we like gunshots. She said, somebody in there shot a gun off inside the house in there. And I could tell it was real because all of the inmates was at the gate,

trying to want to get out, not wanting to be in there because somebody in there shooting. Right. So one by one, we took the inmates out, pat him down, laid them on the floor, handcuffed him. Pat him down, laid them on the floor handcuffed to all the inmates were out. When we went inside, we saw an inmate laying on the bed with a gun. shot wound inside the jail. Okay. Yeah, how would you get a gun in the jail?

But okay, I mean, other than an officer bringing it. So you weren't, you were a model officer for this. At that time. Yes. At that time. So that was like the first sign that, hmm, stuff is crazy. And then you look at at the senior officers, they're looking like this is nothing new to them. To me, how did a gun get in and then the guy gets shot?

But long story short, somebody smoked a gun in there to the inmate so the inmate can shoot another inmate and they can get a big lawsuit against the city. Because how am I getting shot inside the jail? And they didn't find the gun, they found the gun, but they don't know who shot him. No. Okay. Later on he talked, they found out everything. That's how I know it was an intricate plot to sue the city. So what did they? Because guess what? Whether they did or not, I don't know, but it still may raise a whole bunch of eyebrows. How did this gun get inside the jail? And the same guy that was with me when we found the gun is the same guy years later that modified me, that came, told me to meet him in his office, took my shield, took my gun, and told me I'm placed on restricted duty, and that they would notify me.

me, why. Now, like I told you, I thought I escaped from Rikers Island in that lifestyle. So for four months, I'm sweating, trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I covered, I died in my eyes, I crossed my teeth, who snitching, who could have did this, who could did that? Because I know they're not going to modify me if they don't have something. So that was like the beginning of the end now I'm on a restricted duty I'm not on Ragged's Island I'm in a jail in Queens working the elevator away from inmates away from everybody else waiting to see what's going to happen you know and then it happened how long so how long were you it was four months about four months

they came to my home they took me down to office and they set me down Uh, police, internal affairs for the jail. Yeah. Okay. So they sat me in office and they said, um, uh, you know why you're here? No, I'm playing dumb. No, because I'm going to take everything with me to the grave. I know you never caught me with no drugs.

I have no drugs on me. No drugs in my car. No drugs nowhere. So let's find out what, what you got. Right. So they say, we just want to show you something. So I'm sitting at a table and I look at a. screen on a wall and they have a video of me meeting a girl outside and she's handing me

the drugs. The drugs that I was so comfortable and careless, I've been doing this a while with her that I didn't check it. I didn't look in the bag and I took it right inside to the inmate. It was marked drugs. So she was coming to testify and the inmate was coming to testify to get less time that I met her, they had me on video, they had me look at the video, they asked me, is that me? I wouldn't acknowledge that that's me,

but it was me, like, clear as day. And so that was my downfall. The mock drugs went inside, and to get less of time, they were coming to court to testify against me. The thing that shocked me and my family was in the front page of the paper,

because I've been on the front page of the paper four or five times. they said if convicted of all charges he faces the rest of his life in jail so that shook me but my street knowledge said no that's them stacking the charges yeah we got up for 35 charges we're stacking and there's 10 you know 10 years apiece it could be 300 years

that's natural life that's you know yeah um so did they arrest you? They just showed it to you. They showed me that video, and once I wouldn't, after that, I clammed up. So once I clammed up, they told me stand up. They read me my rights. They took these handcuffs and put them on me. And they booked me, they booked me along with six other officers that was doing it in other jails. So basically, they had me already. they were just building a case

so that people could see that oh, the internal affairs is really on them and they really try to prevent the drugs from coming inside the jail. So I got booked front page of the paper. I was going to bail out. And when I went to arraignment, I looked behind me, my mother, my sister,

because I tried to handle it myself, okay? I know I'm an officer. Of course, I've never been in trouble before, you know, that didn't fly. So they booked me and they wouldn't take me to Rikers Island. Because once Word got to Rikers Island, they started rioting because the inmates considered me a good dude. I was so much of a good dude that when I got, when I really got booked and went upstate, all the gang members labeled me bulletproof.

I mean, don't hurt him, don't touch him because he was a good guy. I looked out for a lot of people. Right. Right. So, I mean, but you didn't bond out? Like, what was the bond? Or they wouldn't allow you. They didn't give you bond. They gave me like $30,000 bond. I could have bailed out easy. But in my mind, I knew they had me. Yeah. In my mind, I'm going to need that money. You know, for whatever time that they was going to give me. I didn't know at the time. And I wasn't going to waste on some lawyer. because I've seen what they had. You got somebody to testify. You got me on film. You know,

so all it was was a waiting game for me to see how much time they was going to give me. You know, they came back with various offers and stuff like that. And what was the first offer? First offer was, what, four and a half to 12. Okay. And what does that mean? I don't know I know I know the federal system so if you in four years you can you can get

parole if you if the parole board allows it yes yes maximum you'll do is 12 okay so um I was going to take it are you serious I was going to take it but um I call home and mom went to put all the chips in there because I had the money. See, nobody knew what I was doing, so nobody knew I had the money. Right. So just when I was going to take it, I guess I took too long to answer,

thank God. They came with another offer because they wanted to get a conviction. Right. So they came with two flat, two years flat, but one year post-release supervision. Okay. I ripped his shirt, I ripped his shirt

getting the pin out of his pocket to sign that agreement because I knew it was no such thing in me just because other officers bailed out, right, and fought it. By the time I came home from prison, they were going in. Right. I already knew. So I said, let me, that two years, I already had been in there five months. I only had to do 20 months out of the 24 months, and then one year, give me that. You know, even though it was horrific because being law enforcement locked behind the bars, I'm going to tell you what they did. I've never been in trouble before a day in my life.

So I'm thinking I can get work release, get some kind of program, and go home within two, three months, maybe six months. I get in there and the sergeant, when you go to prison, everybody gets a physical. They want to know if you got any kind of anything. So it's like a gymnasium for the officers and inmates. One by one, getting the physical, getting shots, whatever you want to get. So in front of the gymnasium full of hundreds and hundreds of inmates, the sergeant said, hey, we'll stand up. So I stood up and loud, so it was quiet as church in there.

He said, how long were you a correction officer on Rikers Island? Yeah, but wait a minute. I thought you, so I thought, so you're, did that, so the inmates didn't know. No, like these same inmates at this prison aren't thinking he's a good guy. No. Well, I guess what? Certain inmates that has certain status, sit word. He's a good guy, right?

But they don't control all the inmates. Yeah. So what the sergeant did, he did that. So he said, listen, to protect you and my officers, now I got to put you a protective custody. So once they put you in protect their custody, you can't be awarded work release or any kind of program. So that means you got to do the whole two years. Right. And you got to, I was going to say, you're going to spend a lot of time in your cell.

22 hour lockdown. I was 22 hour lockdown, one hour to, I guess, recreation, take a shower. You can either take a shower, use the phone, or go to rec. I can't do all three. You can't even do two. That's it. That is it. Did you get good time? You get good time on two years, right?

Four months. Four months. Yeah. So. What about halfway house? Once you're in protective custody, none of those programs are afforded to you. Now, if I took the risk, like I was a tough guy, as they put me in general population as a correction officer,

I probably wouldn't be here today. Yeah, could have gone bad. I was going to say, I, you know, when you had mentioned that story, I was locked up in a county jail. I mean, it was a U.S. Marshall's holdover, but they're in county jails. They just have one little one pod where it's a, it's for the federal age or federal inmates. So I was in this pod and there was a guy. Listen, this is a black guy, big guy. He had to be six foot three, six four big guy. But keep in mind. There's maybe 50 guys in this unit and 30 of them, maybe 35 are all Mexican. Maybe there's like 10 black guys, four or five white guys. So the big black guy decided, and there's one TV. And we're all in one unit, you know, one big pod. And there's cells and each cell holds. There's like five cells and each cell holds, whatever, 10 guys.

So finally, after a week of this guy being here, he comes up and he's decides he's not watching, you know, mix him, or Spanish TV anymore. And he walked up and he just changes the TV. And I mean, these guys go nuts. And they're screaming, hollering and they go to turn back and he pushes one of the guys back like, no, we're not, I'm running this TV now. We're watching what I want to watch. And you ain't going to do nothing. And, yeah. So I later talked to him after the Mexicans jumped on him.

I mean, there was like 10 of them. Like, only 10 of them attacked him because only 10 could get to him at one time. Later, when I saw that dude again in, I don't know if it was in the shoe or if it was at, I think it was at ACDC. I saw him. He was thinking he might have been in my same pot and I said, hey, bro, I said, what were you thinking? he goes and he looked at me he goes man they're little bro they're like your size cockley they're smaller than you those guys some of those guys are five two five three i thought i can take them and he said and i said but you you couldn't take them and he goes no there was 10 of them he said

it doesn't matter how big you are you're there's 10 of these guys he's and he said look once they got him on the ground talk about somebody screaming he went from being a a big badass to squealing I mean, I mean, I mean, it was like, Jesus. Like, and,

and, you know, and I was like, yeah, bro, there's 10, like they're all. Like,

he's like, yeah, once that one, one of them got a hold of my leg, and they just yanked my leg out and I hit the ground and they all jumped on me. He said, I realized I fucked up.

Really fucked up. Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I get, you know, and these guys didn't have knives. Like,

they didn't come out of with knives. They just beat the hell out of them. So on a, on a non, on general population. where the inmates have knives. It could go really bad. I don't know really bad.

I don't care. I'll tough you up. I've had officers get revenge or use tactics where they'll put a crick in all bloodhouse. Yeah. And one time the crypt went in there, big guy. Now, you know the cell phone is our eyes to the world. I'm not the telephone talking to your family, your girl, your kid, your friend telling you, yeah, such, such went on here, blah, blah, blah. He took the phone. He threw a full of shank out,

a knife, a homemade knife, put it in the middle of the floor and said, this is my phone now. Whoever wants this phone, meet me and myself. Yeah. We had to get them out of the hospital, but guess what? In jail, these guys tried. Think about that. black guy. Let's say none of the Mexicans were brave enough to jump on him. Guess what that mean? He run that TV. No way he's going to challenge him. You know what's so funny is you and I talking about this to someone, you know, on the street that's never been locked up for any length of time. I mean, going to jail for three days doesn't mean shit, you know, but for somebody who's never been locked up for any length of time, like they have no idea. It sounds stupid.

to them. But they have no idea how important those things are and how serious that situation of the phone, the TV, going in your cell, walk someone walking in your cell, being respectful to each other. Yes. Taking someone, you know, someone's, um, biscuit off of their, their, their, their tray or, you know, like here it's like whatever, who care. But in prison, it suddenly becomes over it's it's worth fighting it's worth you know stabbing someone it's worth beating them it's worth you know whatever like it's it's insane how important those things are when you're limited to when you're down to nothing yes people will fight over a magazine a pencil a book i won't like i get the hell beat out of him with a belt and a lock because he lost a guy's

book yeah i gave it to a guy and the guy lost it and i don't know what to say And he was like, yo, bro, well, you owe me, it's nine bucks for a new one. You owe me nine bucks. He said, go fuck yourself. Man, that dude said, all right, walked off. Came back two minutes later. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Just guys screaming blood all over the bill.

I mean, it was like, and this guy was tiny, too, the guy that beat him up. I remember his name was truck. He was like five foot two. I was like, truck. Listen, to me, the most dangerous inmate. is the crackhead that came out of the street that don't have no family, don't have no money, don't have nothing.

It was a mob guy. I mean, he was a serious, connected guy that could have people go to your family, go to your house. Right. And visit your family. And this guy was on the phone. He didn't have much,

but he had a little time on the phone. And the mob guy snashes the phone, hung up his phone call, and through the, you know, basically the fuck out of the air, blah, blah, blah, this snack. Yeah, he wants to use the phone. And he threatened them. He said, listen, I'll have them come over there.

I'll make one phone call and they'll be at your house tomorrow. Literally, they know this guy didn't have. He was homeless. So he comes back and he takes the court and he wraps it around this guy to get into it and he starts choking him. As he's choking him, he grabs his hand, starts stomping on his hand and breaks his hand, breaks his fingers. And as we

coming there, rushing the handcuffs, and he tells him, how you're going to call somebody with no fingers? Right. Like, he didn't care. Like, call you want to call. I don't have nobody. I have nothing to lose. So, all those things,

commissary, phone call, letters, visits, a pack of chips, TV. If everybody, When I was locked up, they love, what is that, King from Queens. They just love watching the rerun at the rerun. We don't seen it until, but everybody gathered around and watch it. I mean, yeah, it is, it is crucial.

And people don't know, they take it for granted. I remember M.Hs used to ask me all the time, hey, well, you're going to go home, right? And you're going to go and you're going to have a beer tonight, right? A beer, right, or a soda. No, it has something that was just everybody would normally have that they missed. Right. I was like, yeah, I'm going to have a bear. And they sit there and be envious, want me to tell the whole story about how I'm going to drink a beer, you know.

But. So you, you did, so you did almost two years in protective custody and you get out, no halfway house. Like what's waiting for you when you get out? like what was the like did you please did you have a plan at that you had two years to think about what you were going to do i'm going to say you what i did right okay i started doing research right in new york city there's certain jobs that hire felons so now i'm a felon now i got felonies so from jail i started studying the cdl book to get to become a you know drive trucks i heard that you could do that with a felony and i looked up

all the city agencies that take people with felonies so applied from jail to be a city bus driver i was supposed to come home in january they called me no they called me december and told me that i had an interview come up february now i'm i'm in prison so i got a they called you because they filled it out and mailed it to them so they didn't melt my mom and say oh they said a letter she said you got an interview to be a bus driver February now Matt I was getting out January so I studied the CDL book study study study I got out January 8th by January 12th I had my permit that's all I needed I went to go to my PO to tell him that I had an interview to be a bus driver he said you can't have that

job because they make the same money a correctional officer made and if you get that job you're going to go back to selling drugs and he wouldn't allow me to get that job what he's saying you only have to get a you're only allowed to get a job making more money than a correctional officer how's that possible you have a felony now so you are only get jobs making less money or just because you got to get you got to get a job or which they're going to send you back yeah right so when I told them I was going to get a good job no I don't want you to have that job because now you're going to be making too much money and you've shown that you're irresponsible yeah but your your crime was situational you know what I'm saying left to your own devices you you had never you know you'd never sold drugs you'd never done all that it was it was a complete situational crime yeah but come on they don't look at it like that they look at it you disrespect the badge number one because guess what it was jobs I went to that if I was this Joe drug dealer that came

home, I would get those jobs. One of my charges is bribe receiving. So now if you, Troy Johnson, on the corner that got caught for pitching, they're not going to give you a bribe receiving charge. So they made it so that when you go,

because when you go to these jobs, you got to allocate what you went to jail for. Right. And when it's because my charge don't say correction officer drug selling, drug dealer. Right. it is a drug sale. So there's a million people who got drug cell charges

that will get hired. But then now they want to dig deep, that bribe receiving makes them dig deep and say, what were you doing that they considered you getting robbed? Because a crackhead coming up to you buying drugs is not bribed. Right. And then you got to go into who you were. And then, so that's why I wrote my book,

Corruption Officer, to tell everybody about my journey to tell people that don't let felonies define you because now, since then, I'm going to tell you something crazy. I don't vote it. I don't stood jury duty. And as we speak right now, I'm a superintendent

for the city again. So, no, I let people know, don't let jail define you and those myths, don't let those myths stop you from improving your situation. As a matter of fact, I got a year to retire. So, you know, I did a 360, you know, some people who are hard learners. I'm not. All the took was that one time. How long? When did you get out? What year did you get out? I got out in 2008. Okay. So I've been out for a while. Oh, yeah. You've been, so you've been on your job.

So when you were on, what did you do when you were on probation? What did you, what job did he allow you to get? He allowed me to get an ambulate driving job for seniors for $7 an hour. lately you're so irritated i can see it in your face because people don't understand how the odds be stacked against you that they want you to go back to prison come on duke i did something proactive i was going to get a job as a bus driver making pretty decent money not dealing with people's money nobody's kid not just dealing with the public and you wanted me to get a $7 an hour job because what happened when I did

because I kind of had money they didn't know about but the thing was every week you had to report to your parole officer so he would tell me I would try to get there 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning so let's get this over it he would make me wait I'll get there 9 o'clock in the morning

he wouldn't call me to 5 o'clock in the afternoon today you ain't got to no job where you gotta be this is my time you make me sit there all day till five o'clock so it's time for him to go on then come make me take a piss test right and i'm like bro not to not so not because somebody's supposed to look at me differently because i did commit these crimes but i knew that i was going to mess up and do drugs and my curfew was 9 o'clock I was at home 7 o'clock every night because the Knicks played

and he would come to my house 7.38 o'clock. My curvy ain't until 9 o'clock. But I'm here. You're not going to catch me out past curfew. I'm not doing nothing wrong. Right. So, and when I got off, that was it. I just went and I started working

doing, using my CDL to drive big trucks, door construction, and then I got me a city job again. And so far, the rest is history so far, you know, I go around and I talk to kids and I do speaking engagements to teach people, talk to people about the importance of staying out of prison, you know. When did you write your book? I wrote my book in prison. Right. And it got, I self-published it 2012.

And then I got signed to Simon & Shostler, it's the biggest book published company in New York. so I got a book deal for my book corruption officer and then I'm going to tell you, it's been God has been looking out for me because Will Smith optioned my book to make it a series on FX. So I was I was signed for Will Smith

for about five or six years making that happen FX Disney and stuff like that. So recently, you know, they put a hold on it because Will Smith, you know, he's doing will smith stuff he said some issues yeah he's yeah oh it's so funny too because i i i used to think i i honestly i thought i honestly thought like just will smith was like the coolest until that he still is but you know everybody go through things that behind closed doors with their family i'm not the one to judge right you know but you know the way it plays out

Well, let me let me put this way I would have never expected that like that would he was the last person in the world that I think would have done something like that I would have yeah me too didn't see that I grew up on Will Smith. Huh? I grew up on Will Smith so yeah when I saw that I you know I saw the video and I'm like is it a stunt is a joke when my when my buddy sent it to me I thought to AI or like what is I don't understand you know. You know, And then, of course, more videos came up. And then I looked and I was like, oh, my God. And I called my buddy and he was like, yeah, bro, that's what just happened. Oh, holy shit. But you know what? When we were talking on the phone, and I mentioned this to my wife, like I could completely see this being not a movie, but like a series. Like I could see this being like a Netflix or Hulu or Apple series because it, and I,

I was telling my, do you remember, was it a shield? Yes. You know, we're like, he was a good, he was a good cop, but he was a bad cop. Shield is kind of like Chicago PD. Right. But yeah. Oh, right. Exactly.

Where it's like, you know, it's like, it's kind of like, it's funny because there are these, you know, in Florida. And honestly, honestly, I'm sure sheriffs are like this everywhere. Everybody, Florida's got a bad. You know, it kept my, my wife, you know, did like five years, right? Okay. for a meth conspiracy. And, and so, you know, the way, you know, we'll watch these things on sheriffs and stuff, right? And some of the sheriffs down here are just insane, you know, I don't know if you've seen them.

They'll do like press, press conferences and they talk about like, listen, you know, the, we found this guy dead in the street. He's a known burglar. What we think happened was that he broke in someone's house and he shot that they shot. that they shot him and he then ran down the street and died in the street he's like so we want the person to shoot that shot him to come forward because you're not in trouble because we encourage people to shoot burglars breaking in their house you're not in trouble we just want to give you some free um some free gun range time because you really should have killed him in his house or in your house and like they and you're like that this is a press press conference what they have

one of the better ones is they there was a guy who was in his house who'd outrun the cops escaped into like his mobile home and the cops he fired at the police from inside the mobile home and they fired a hundred and like 90 shots into mobile home and at gilder and when the reporter said you know sheriff like why did your shit why did they fire 190 bullets into the mobile home. And he said, because they ran out of bullets. That's why. He said, because dead is because dead is dead. You can't be dead enough when you're firing at law enforcement. I mean, they're insane. But so these guys are, you know, they're super gung ho, you know, um, non-politically correct. But that's also. And my wife says this all the time. She's like, yeah, but that's also the guy I want

showing up at my house if someone breaks in. You know what I'm saying? Also that that's, you know, unfortunately you don't get the nice, sweet politically correct good guy that is also a tough brave officer that runs into a, you know, a building where there's somebody in there with a gun. You know what I'm saying?

Like it's tough. Like you don't get that hard ass guy that's gung ho and going to save someone's life. And he's also a sweet, sharing individual. That's probably just not the way it works. So we were so we were talking about your thing and I was like like I could see that being a series like like he's he's doing stuff. He's bringing in cell phones. He's bringing in, you know, drugs periodically.

He's, you know, but but he's also like stopping things from happening. He's got stuff going on at home. Inmates are maybe something goes wrong and an inmate puts a hit out on him on the street like I was like, you know, all they got to do is follow the book for a couple seasons. and then they build the characters and then they can do whatever they want with it you know some talented writer to turn you into so I mean I can see that

like it that's a super unique story it's already a script and you're funny you're funny because you have a talent it's a script just like that oh is it because

yes for a series with characters already like I said it was almost into fruition with FX almost so right now I'm still shopping the script around and is that because what it is and this is this listen

let me just say this if I had of course we all had it all do again we wouldn't do it right yeah right right but it was like I was robin hood for the neighborhood meaning somebody's kid get in trouble they got a commissary on his books

we got the week month after month become expensive you spend $100 with me $200 with me he eats for about six months yeah i don't think we ever really you touched on it but you didn't explain that like if i'm bringing him in 300 worth of tobacco i'm charging 300 bucks so i'm getting my 300 but that guy is able to turn that that 300 pack of tobacco into 1500 because it's going to roll these little tiny cigarettes which are amazing how small they are And he's getting $20 for each one of these little cigarettes.

And there's no real money being exchanged in that. It's all commissary. It's all stamps. It's all. Yes. And it's funny how a lot of times, and just like you did mention this is that, you know, as fucked up as it is, those are the things that also keep balance in, you know, in those, those, in the pod. I don't know what you call them housing units or pods.

housing area cell area housing areas and I'm going to be honest people may not realize it I saved a lot of lives right right it's not right is what I did was wrong

but in the gist of what was going on I saved a lot of lives with people who didn't have in situations that was going to go down over stuff that we take advantage of you know but was serious to people. I remember a guy was going to be the guy because he wanted, the guy had real mayonnaise

in his cell. And the gentleman wanted real mayonnaise on his sandwich. And, you know, that's the guy that has the real mayonnaise. You know, so it became a big, and I was like, is it mayonnaise? Are you freaking crazy? Calm down. The next day, I bought him a bacon, egg, and cheese. that they milked that big and negative cheese sandwich. He ate it like all week like it was like he never tasted that before baking, real bacon. But stuff like that, individuals that came in that didn't have nothing,

I'll tell you like five bucks put it on his commissary so he can go shopping. So now he's not robbing stealing stabbing the next person. It is a balance. And it keeps a piece, you know, whether they realize it or not. Like I said before, What you learn in the academy is the structure. Listen, if you get caught doing something wrong, we showed you the right way to do it.

But we all know that's not how you're going to do business or you become a freshman officer. Well, did you ever see Carlito's way? I've seen it. So you remember. Yeah, yeah. He was in, there's a scene where there's a mobster that's locked up and I don't know where he is it's I but he's locked up and they're like there's

like a CEO like he's got a the CEO he's paying the CEO obviously you know okay comes in he meets with the lawyer and he's like and he tells a CEO all right all right I'm good and then he says you see that that that's or you know you see that guard and he's like yeah he said that guard's going to leave a door open for me and I'm going to be in the water at this time remember the guy Carlito's lawyer kills somebody? I don't remember. I've seen him. It was a long time ago.

You got to watch it again. He ends up killing this mob guy because he stole like a million dollars from him. Like for his defense, he says his lawyer, the mob guy had somebody drop off a million dollars to the lawyer. The lawyer says, I never got it. He did get it. And so the mob guy is like, I know you got it. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to have a boat and you're going to get a boat.

and that boat's going to be waiting for me when I get when this guard lets me out but I'm saying there are so many you see what I'm saying I'm like there are so many things that a guard is a part of and can be a part of in a series where that series can go into all kinds of things it can and it doesn't have to take place in just the prison because that guard is also being approached by people just like you said on the street you know there's who knows what other things happen on the street that aren't even taking place that's 40 hours

inside the prison that can have a whole other thing going on with mobsters and drug dealers listen listen listen you got it you're hired what yeah you gotta get this off the ground

I was excited about you you are so on point with it I can email you my pitch stick and I'm telling you everything that you thought bung already I got characters upon

characters that's never been seen before that's why I've had a few offers to do it a couple of names were attached you know I'm not going to say because it didn't come into fruition

but this it doesn't even have to just be Rikers Island see Rikers Island is like one of the most notorious jails known around the world you know but the storyline like I said it can go to so many different

the main character the copstitute matter of fact okay I mean I don't Corruption officer is my first book Perpetrated with a badge Second book is called Copsitute

What would you do to feed your kids And it's about female correction officers Oh yeah Yes I have like the script to me is amazing of course i'm gonna say it's amazing because i wrote it but my book is uh five-star reviews the script is that it is funny that you you saw that and i never had the conversation with you again uh before about the series and that's exactly what the series is about yeah that's exactly good you know it's a corrupt judge is a corrupt

judge stuff going on uh because you know you have a lot of series where it is a bad guy that's the good guy yeah you know what i mean but that that's the thing is that look like like i can't watch another fucking mobster movie um you know like but you see i'm saying like that's like i really like unique stories and that's why so and i interview a lot of guys okay you know very seldomly do i schedule something and then go and tell my wife, like, listen to this, you know, and she's like, what is it? And then I tell her and she's like, and, you know, I started talking to her about this and this. And she's, she's great because she almost never talks. And she says, well, I don't have to talk is all you do is talk. And, and she's, oh, she's perfectly okay to just sit back and go, okay. And she lets me just go and go. And I was like, think about what a unique, like, I've never seen. If you said, okay, so there's a mob guy, I've seen it. I've seen five, I've seen 20 different variations of the mob guy. Okay. Well, corrupt cop. I've seen 20 different versions of the corrupt cop. You know, okay, well, it's a drug dealer who's

really a good guy, but he also does bad things. There's about 500 different versions. Well, let's switch it up. Okay, instead of Coke, we're going to make this one about meth. Oh, wow, you've really done something there. Oh, no, no. But this one, we're going to make this one about it's marijuana. Oh, that's nice. So it's all the same. You know, it's a lot of the same thing. But yours is extremely unique because I've never seen one done from the perspective of a guard who's surrounded by criminals, who's managing this. And there's so many different things that you can do with that, you know, with that setup or with that character that doesn't just limit him to being inside of the prison. And keep mind, too, the other added incentive is that after season two or three, then you have investigations that he almost gets caught. Then you have, you know what I'm saying?

You've got the guys, you've got the, in federal prison, it would be they call them SIS. I don't know what the, the internal affairs for you guys. Yes. Where you've got one or one guy who's got a hard on for him. Maybe there's always there. Yeah, there's those kinds of things and these, all the politics. Like it's a perfect fucking. Yes.

scenario or situation to really have a drama. They could also have periodically, periodically could have violence, you know, element of violence. in it. Listen. So. You ever seen Oz to show Oz? Yes. I was terrified of Oz.

I saw Oz before I went to prison. Yeah. One of the reasons I desperately didn't want to go to prison. Imagine Oz and it was a show called The Wire. Right. That's my series combined. Right. So that's your, what do they always do?

It's, you know. Instead of pitch? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm pretty, the same way you feel about it, a lot of people feel about it. It's just, I just got to keep pushing and make it happen. Well, when does your option expire with Will Smith's production company?

It did. It did like about six months ago. So now I have all the rights. I have the script. I have the rights. The only thing I don't have the right to my book, I got a book publishing deal. So my book is on Amazon. Amazon.com is published by Simon.

You own your life rights. So your life rights are no longer optioned. I own my life rights. What was he doing? Optioning it every 18 months? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We were almost there. I don't know. I listen. I, I have a couple of things stopped. The pandemic happened. Slow things down. We were just coming out the pandemic. I just, I signed with FX. I signed with Disney because Disney owns FX. And we're about to get ready to roll until, you know, I'm just going to say they changed their mind. Yeah. You know, so it's available.

Anybody's interested in contact me and then. What's on Amazon, right? But the book's on Amazon.com. You know, I'll leave, how about, I mean, I'll leave your the Amazon.com. I'll leave the Amazon link in the description box. and I'll leave if you want I mean it's up to you I can leave your your like your email

your contact email in there or definitely okay I was going to say a lot of times people will email me and say hey bro can you put me in contact with this person but because some people don't want their email but if you do I'll put I'll pop the email in there definitely or they can come to my YouTube page Gary Hayward

okay and uh I hear about craziness and I'm sure you I'm sure you've been through some stuff yourself. Oh, listen, man. And I wrote almost basically two dozen stories, true crime stories when I was locked up.

So I've written eight true crime books. I wrote a memoir and I've written like seven books. And I think six of them, I was in prison. I've written two since I got out. But I'm doing the same thing. I'm going through the production company. I've had stuff optioned. And then 18 months, you get another check.

And then in 18 months, you know, they keep optioning it. And, you know, it's great to get. a little check. I don't mind. I like getting that check. It's always come when I need it the most, by the way. Yeah, same here. Same here. It's the big check that I want. You know, and then- Let's go forward, move forward with it. Right. And, you know, I've got, you know, I've got a, you know, some, some projects. I have some projects with one company, with a law firm. I've had a couple of them optioned and some options have expired. Some are they're still doing it. But it's the same thing, bro. And I've been out for, I've been doing this for four years.

And it is, it's like, I would rather deal with criminals than people in Hollywood. Because, you know, at least in criminal, like, they'll at least tell you to your face, go fuck yourself. These guys are spin you and spin you. And if I hear one more person say, we're going to pitch it at the meeting on Friday. You know, or we got to talk to Jan or Jennifer's on vacation for the next two weeks. But when she gets back, this is the first thing on our agenda. Oh, my God. And then sometimes you call their phone. They don't answer the phone no more.

Right. Oh, yeah. And then suddenly they just ghost you. And what's funny, I've had people ghost me. And then two weeks or two years later, they, you get a text from them and says, hey, wow, I was in a meeting the other day. And I remember, and I was, they were looking for, you know, a. bank robbery story. And I remembered you'd written that bank robbery story about this,

got that guy. And I went to your website and I got it. Do you mind if I pitch it to what was the guy's name, a 50 cents company? And it's like, are we going to a, are we, are we not, we not talking about the two years that you, I sent you three emails and five texts. Like, are we, that's over. Oh, when did you, when did that happen? I, you know, Matt, I got a new cell phone. Oh, you're a scumbag. But, yeah, please pitch it to 50 cents. Hey. Hey.

Discussed. I'm disgusted with myself. No. 50 cent is his office is here in New York. When I got a job, I had a maintenance worker job. I was a maintenance worker. Part of being a maintenance worker in the basement, it gets stopped up with feces that come up to your chest. So you got to unclogged that drain.

I got a call. to come to 50 cents office on 40th Street in 8th Avenue. Bro, I left work. I didn't tell my boss, nothing. I had a dozen of my books in my hand, and if you can only see me, the guy looking at me, knocking on 50 cents doing with fecese matter

all over myself saying, hey, this is my book. 50% would love it. You know, my book got on his desk, but I guess it never really reached to him. Because one of the stories is Tony Yale, his right hand protege when he went to jail i took care of him right it was cigarettes stuff like that made sure because they was worn with uh erf goddy murdering so tony yo told me to

come down there to see him okay but when i went the dissent wasn't there you know you always have them close calls but listen both was got to keep trying that's all we got to do is keep pushing so i was going to mention something to you um so i have on my website I've got, I think I've probably got 17 or 18 of my stories, right? But they're not, they're not the full-length books. Okay. They're a synopsie. So let's say your book is 90,000 words.

A synopsis would be 10%. It'd be like 9,000 words. Yeah. A little snippet. Yeah. Right, right. I don't mean taking a piece. You're condensing it like almost like an article.

Okay. So it really very much is just like reading a Rolling Stone article, which typically are about six to eight thousand words the nice thing is you're not really constrained like if your book's 80,000 words then your your synopsis should be roughly about eight or nine thousand words right something somebody can read in less than an hour and then of course you want to write just like you're the back jacket cover for your book yeah here's the thing about that I have a website and a lot of times when I pitch these guys like I'm not I can't give you a 90,000 word book They're never going to read it.

But they will read the 8,000 word synopsis. And I even have, I even took it a step further because I realized, listen, these guys, they may not even read this. I even had it, each one of them is narrated. So they can listen to it in their car. You can click a button on my website and it brings you to YouTube and it reads you the story, 45 minutes, 50 minute story on your, way to work, it will read you the story if you don't have time. And I tell them that,

you know, so you might want to think about getting, creating a synopsis of your story. Definitely. A narration. You can narrate it. Like it's, yours is in first person, I'm sure, because it's a memoir. Yes. So you can narrate it. Listen, bro, you're hired because I got video, bro, I got video of me and my half. Right. I memorized my first chapter. So you know how some authors, they get their book, and they read through the book and buy, they read a chapter and videotape them? No, I sit there and I act out the first chapter. Right. So I like the connection.

Yeah, you should think about the synopsis. Yes. I'm definitely going to think about that. That is a great, yes. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the interview. If you liked it, do me a favor. Subscribe to the channel if you're not already subscribed. hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this.

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