Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside the Mind of a Master Thief Who Couldn't Stop Stealing

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

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and they're not even like trying to hide it. Statue limitations is up on it now, so I don't care, but I was worried for years. My mother made some bad decisions with the men she brought into the home. Now, let's say she made one really bad decision. My dad, by all accounts, was a good guy. He hurt his arm one day, came home from work, pushed the screen door open. whether it just got stuck or something, his whole arm went through the screen, cut it all the way up to his shoulder.

And they put him on Percocet, you know? And I don't know if he was never exposed to an opiate before that or if it just didn't feel whatever. She said, like, once he started taking them, it was, like, over for him. Like, within, like, I think a year, he's already going to doing dope. You know, my mom tries to stick with him, but she ends up leaving, and he just turns, like, our house into a trap house. You know, she, like, left, took us.

you know let him stay there and then about i don't know about a year or so after she gets a call um about him getting he was fined in the alley beat the death pretty much like almost the death they light flighted them um this is i still can't believe they did this but at the time they had us go into the hospital like the kids i was three or four maybe my brother was probably seven or eight to go say bye to him which is like i still remember this that's it's like a traumatic memory and i don't understand what they because like he didn't look anything like himself he his head was like a pumpkin was right you know so we we go in and and like I say bye to him and I'm like scared to death because of how he looks you know my brother my brother was like a little bit more or older so I think he like

basically I don't even think I hugged him or anything I was just like trying to get out of there so he ends up surviving but he went to a coma and they they thought he was going to die that night they gave him last rights so he was in a coma for a couple weeks so he comes out of the coma I think my mother was there when he woke up and they found out real quick that he had lost a big gap of memory like three or four years. So he, from what he thought, he only had one child that they were still together

and like we had a dog, I think he didn't know about the dog. So he'd like lost four years of his life. And, you know, the doctor's like, it'll come back, you know, it'll take time. So I had to like get reintroduced to him like, this is your son that, you know. Right. Just like weird.

That's a weird thing, you know. He comes out of it. and then supposedly doesn't remember being a dope fain, right? Right. You would think. That's great. Yeah, you would think. That's good thing, right?

Yeah, so my mom's visiting him, and he's like, they thought he was paralyzed. They said he was going to be paralyzed. He'd never walk again. He had all kind of, just all kind of damage, but some brain damage, too. They weren't sure what the extent was. So after like a week or two, he tells my mom, like, I'm in so much pain. Can you bring me in some dope? And it's like, how do you remember it?

You know, like, whatever. Sorry to come back. But my mom was like, you know, she said that was it. She said once he asked that, like she knew it was over. He was never going to, you know, be who he was again. Yeah. And by all accounts, that changed him forever. Like his brain, he's just not the same person.

Like over the years, my mom, she would try to encourage us to visit with him. You know, he would like, he had Social Security eventually. So we would go and, uh, as far as far as, went off like a year or two like one time he got arrested for pissing in the in the alley i was with him another time he was supposed to take us to the zoo and he snuck us in we had to go like around his back fence climb the fence you know and like he's like half paralyzed trying to climb his fence right it was a ridiculous yeah but we got in but uh the last straw was um i used to collect baseball cards when i was young um and i would go to his house i'd be bored out of my mind

because he wasn't uh you know he he had brain damage at that point so i'm sure he was a better father whenever i was younger because i remember like playing wiffle ball doing all these things but at that point like i would just go to his house and just like do my own thing you know it was like didn't want to be there and i would see like cookers i didn't know they were cookers at the time but you know he was still getting high so whenever it was time to leave the one weekend i just left and i left my cards there now they were like maybe worth 40 bucks right nothing you know know but you know my mom what my my told my mom I left them there like the next day or something I could see her face like they're gone she called him and he was like oh my house got burglarized

and and yeah so my mom was just like you never got to go there again if you don't want you know so I was like 100% good with that my older brother has a lot more had a lot more attachment because he was older to him you know he was older when it all happened so he took the divorce hard he took all that stuff real hard but it was almost a black blessing for me. I don't have many memories of him before that. So it was like easier for me to not be attached to him. And then what would happen later in life, it would just be even easier. But unfortunately, my mother met another gentleman that was, he's a recovering addict. He was clean at the time. The reason I know that is because I would always have to go to Narcotics Anonymous

meetings with him. And he was nice at first, like any person you bring into the home is. But eventually it just turned into, he would just, he was physically abusive to me. Like, like, Like only me. It was only me and my little brother, but they ended up having my little brother. And it was just, it was like three years that it went on. I never told anybody. But, you know, I have resentments toward my mother for years over this because I have kids. I know if my kids don't want to, like, be left with someone, they don't feel comfortable with them, you know.

He was like a sadist, you know. And it would start out, like, it would start out where he would beat me. If I was like, dude, if I did something wrong, wrong, like didn't do a dish the whole way or something. Right. I'm like eight at the time, nine or something. It's another, I resented my dad because I didn't have anyone to stick up for me. I couldn't go tell my dad, like, this dude's beating the shit out of me every day. Right. What's he going to do, you know?

It would be every time I was alone with him or I came home from school and he was there, I would see his van there and my mom's car not there. I would just know. I would go in and I would cry. And then at the same time, I was going to a school called Fort Pitt in Pittsburgh. It's not open anymore. But it was predominantly African-American. And being young and I didn't really know too many people in there, just fighting every day.

And at that time, I didn't know. I wouldn't stick up for myself. I would just, like, have my coat taken. I would just, like, run or I'd go on the ground and the ball. And so all of this is, like, going on at the same time. And I just kind of, like, got to a point where I just broke. And I just couldn't, like, couldn't. take the abuse anymore because I would get so mad at myself for not fighting back.

Right. You know, especially with the school stuff. Like with him, I couldn't fight back. He's a grown man. Yeah, he would have killed me. But at school, I would just get so, I remember just going home from school and just like wanting to get myself as a nine year old because I couldn't stand that I was so afraid of this stuff, you know.

And at a certain point, just decided. Like, I'm just going to go. I'm just going to fight back. I don't care what happens, you know, like, what's the worst that could happen? And with him, I don't, I didn't, like, intellectualize this at my age, but I understood somehow that he was trying to, he wanted to see me cry, and he wanted, he wanted to, like, make me fearful. Right.

He got off on that somehow. So I wouldn't give it to him. It was hard at first. Like, I remember, like, I just, like, I'm not going to cry. I'm not going to, you know. And the first time, I just, like, try to do it. and just broke completely. But after a little bit of time,

I just, I find that it was just like easy to do once I made my mind up to it. Right. You know, and it would, he would go crazy. Yeah. And this was like towards the end.

And they ended up getting divorced, but it was not because of that. He ended up some rate up your rally doing mortgage fraud and all this stuff. Yeah, he's a recovering addict, but you can't live like that in a 12-step program and not, you're going to use at some point because you just can't justify all that stuff in your mind. You know, you're like living two, two lives in opposition.

So I don't know if he started using again before they divorced or whatever. I just know there was a lot of arguing, a lot of money problems or whatever. And they ended up getting divorced, which was the best thing for me. I, you know, I couldn't stand on. I hope he died at that point, you know. I love my little brother. Still to this day, I love my little brother, always will. but the stuff he did to me is like, you know, I blocked it out for years.

Just like, then I would like tell myself it wasn't that bad. I wouldn't like, you know, I wouldn't share because I didn't think it was worthy of being shared, you know. But like having kids of my own, like if somebody terrorized one of my kids like that every day, I would be, I'd go to prison. That's the only thing I would ever go back to prison for, you know. And so I was never close to my mother after us, you know, which is like. like she never acknowledged it, you know, until later, years later, I'll get to that at some point. But I don't know why I've thought about this, but like I idolize bad people, you know, the people in the neighborhood that were like that were in trouble, that were like fighting. I idolized them. I had to like that's all I cared about. I didn't, I didn't want to be a baseball player. I didn't want to be anything.

I'd wanted to hang out at the park and have those dudes that I thought was tough. cool accept me and i was willing to do anything you know and people say that but i'll outline how i was willing to do anything to be a part of that so i i was accepted a lot more because of my brother you know said he he had friends and then they had younger siblings so i'd hang out with them and i automatically be accepted for that and even at the late night parties like i i could i recognize that like people would say oh he's crazy you know and i and i was like you know you know and i was like you you know, that gets you attention. That gets you like, you know, recognition.

So I'm just going to be crazy and do, you know what I mean? So that's how I started being. And I would hang out, Lawrenceville. We would drink sometimes. The older kids would get, you know, we'd all drink together. But mostly I would just hang out with my friends. The first time I was arrested was for a robbery. I didn't, wouldn't have thought it was a robbery at the time, but looking, it was a robbery.

So it was a kid from my. I thought we were just taking to some stuff. away from this guy yeah no no this kid there was a kid named west virginia or his name was mike some but we called him west virginia right from west virginia and he was just not one of us you know but like he would hang out with us here and there this summer so for some reason we knew that he had like seven eight hundred dollars on him or whatever and we were drinking up on the in the back of the park you know every neighborhood every bad neighborhood has a park you know all the bad kids are always in the back of it you know so everyone knew we'd hung out there to

police would like leave us alone most of the part unless we didn't like mess with everyone in the park you know so we ended up uh like we had like a little plan there was like four of us me a girl and and two of my guy friends and we had a blackjack um i don't know if you know what that is like the cops have it it's like a oh yeah like a little tiny billy club thing yeah yeah and it's like really it's got a real hard service on the end for when you hit you know so we we had like a little thing worked out like when i do this you hit them with the blackjack right so we did that um robbed them um he he ended up having like a pretty serious head injury it wasn't like damn brain damage or anything but so right away um police are looking for us and so i just

didn't go home you know and uh he ended up seeing me on and i'm i'm like 12 he's like probably 17 18 right so he sees me by myself because i'm on you know i'm not going home so i'm out all hours of the day and like and he sees me on butler street a few hours like a few hours like No, it's like three days later. Oh, okay. Yeah. And he chases me all way down and I run in this restaurant and he runs in, grabs me, gets on me, pins me down and then waits for the cops to come. You know, I couldn't get them off me. I was like so, but I deserved it 100%. So they take me to Schumann for the first time, which is like the juvenile detention center. So they ended up just giving me probation. It was like nothing real serious. The first armed robbery I did, I was 16 and this was something. I did with two other people.

And I never got a call for this one, which is crazy because everyone knew about it. It was just, I don't, I probably ran my mouth a lot. Plus the people I was with ran their mouth. Right. So it was a subway. It was a subway sandwich shop. Oh, I was going to say they did a subway. No, no, no.

Yeah, it was a subway sandwich shop. What I remember about this is probably one of the only ones I went in with a real gun. Because one thing about when addicts, if they're robbing you, the gun is probably not real. because if it is real, it's easier to sell the gun. Yes. Right. Yeah, always. You know what I mean?

Like, I would much rather sell a gun and get, I than go rob something and all that heat or whatever. But this one, it was like my friend's dad's gun. He lives right around like a block away. So I had someone just looking out on the corner. And then I went in. I had a mask on. And I was like three doors down just standing there. It was nighttime and trying to get my nerve up.

And I remember when I put the mask up, up and made my mind to go in because I was also watching customers. I wanted to go in with no one's in there. And then I put my mask up and I pulled a gun out and I start walking and there's cars going by. And I see this car with these two little kids in the back and they're looking at me. They're like and they're seeing me with a gun walking out through the store. Yeah.

I'll never forget that kid's face. It was like, oh my, it's just like everything stopped. So I go into the subway. I don't remember anything about the robbery, really. It just happened so fast. but I got maybe like $300. It happened. They thankfully gave them up, gave it up real fast.

Ran out right through traffic to my friend's house. There was no real chase or anything after that. The thing I didn't know. So obviously I don't want to leave after that. So I have my friend go buy the drugs. Right. So it takes him like 40 minutes to get there and get back. And then when he gets back, I'm like, I'm going first.

You know, I'm the one I did everything, you know. So I, because we only have one needle at that time. It wasn't like it is now where you can go 80 places and get needles. Right. We were, you know, unless you knew a diabetic, you were sharing needles, you know, until they break. You know, sometimes they did break while you're using them. Oh, it's the worst. Insurance isn't a one-size-fits-all.

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your price tool a try. Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life. On your terms. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Do the worst, yeah. So I do, I get my dope ready, right? And I do it.

I do a decent shot. I don't feel any of it. Adrenaline. Because, like, my friends do it right after. And they're obliterated. They're, like, sleeping on each other. And I'm like, what is going on? I don't feel anything.

Like I, and it was because my adrenaline from the armed robbery had not come down yet. And that, and I recognized right then, like, that chemical rush from the, from the adrenaline is like more powerful than anything. Right. You know? And I think in some way I became addicted to that, you know, even though, uh, there's an anxiety with it that is like really hard to describe and like not enjoyable, you know. So I got away with that one.

I ended up getting arrested. My girlfriend got pregnant right then too. All by herself? No, no. Mostly. I mean, at that, I didn't know what I was doing. It's a miracle she did get pregnant right that way. But I think I was 15.

She was 14. But our parents were smarter than us and made her get an abortion. But I ended up going to like a youth, I got juvenile life from like 16 to 18. for just... Juvenile... Yeah, they used to give it out where... Sometimes it would be to 21. It would be a stipulation to 18 or 21.

So mine was the 21 to Newcastle YDC, which is Youth Development Center. And then whenever you're going through these juvenile systems, you hear about all these places, like Newcastle, YDC, Danville. You know, you're going to know, like the worst ones or whatever. So at a certain point, my judge was just done with me. Yeah. Like, you know, just somewhere until you're 18. So I go up there and I go immediately with the, the child killer unit, you know, the teenage killers, where everyone in my unit was there for murder.

There was a dude killed his dad with a board with a nail in it, you know. Good enough guys, honestly. Like I didn't have any problems there, you know, but like they were, they were just, they were all there for killing someone. A lot of them were off, you know, like just you could tell there was something really wrong with them. Right. that was like my first interactions with people that had killed somebody that like uh it wasn't that wasn't like a prison setting though there was a lot of control there you know it wasn't a lot of fights or anything so i did my time in the lockdown part and then i went to the open part which was like a drug and

alcohol thing and that's what i had to graduate that before i could leave um i got my g ed i worked in the office find out fast that um the the mail bag for school came right to me right and i would like disperse all the teachers mail but it would come right to me like from the from the post office like they would get a bag up front and then i would go get it i could just get anything mailed into me you know so i would just start having cigarettes mailed in and i was smart with it though i wasn't dumb because i knew like everyone just tells on you or whatever so i did it was pretty easy i got out at 18 and i went and lived with my uncle now my uncle my mother's brother was like uh he was mr mr pennsylvania for like i think three years in a row which is like bodybuilder you know he was like super in the bodybuilding

it's like disgusting big and then he was also used to used to sell a lot of drugs right um and he's like kind of like uh had a had a very uh big reputation in the streets right so at this time he's like you know reform he got all his money bought a car a lot got some apartments and stuff so him and his family um they agreed to let me live with them because it's like you know let's get him away from his environment. Maybe it'll be better because I was always smart. I always did good in school and just I just didn't want to do any of that shit, you know. I had no interest in anything other than being on the streets hanging out,

building that reputation. So I go live with him and it's going good there for like almost a year. And then the FBI raids his house. And this is for steroids? No, no. Oh, just other drugs, like blow? So this is, this. is what happened um we find out later you know obviously so now i lived his house was right here

and then right here was my grandmother's house right and it was just easier for me to live in my grandmother's house but i was right there with them it was like all one property so i i was going to college at the time ccac and i just hear boom boom boom boom boom boom it's like six in the morning and my grandmother busts in my room she's like they're arresting rickie they're arresting rickie and i look out and there's just cars everywhere it was fbi d a It was some other ones, probably Marshalls or whatever. So what happened was someone that he had been dealing with for years. Now, I don't know how true it was, but I would have been with him every day for that year.

And he wasn't doing anything. You know, he was working, selling cars, you know, lifting every day. You know what I mean? We was all into that. But, you know, he'd have a lot of cash sometimes and that. And he would be honest about what he was like before or whatever. But his friend got, was in Texas, picking up a bunch of. driving it up, got arrested on the way.

So then they don't need you, they don't need to catch you with anything. The feds, you know that. So they ended up getting 10 years. Right. For, I think it was between 5 and 15 kilos. Yeah. Yeah, you got.

Could be, I mean, the connection could be, you know. There's a large indictment with a lot of people. I'm saying they could just add you to the indictment. Right. Have a couple phone calls with you or three people are saying, now he's involved. He's the guy. He's our connection.

They tried to get them to do the proffer thing or whatever. And he asked me, like, we had discussions about it. Like, what do you think? Do you think, you know, I don't fucking know. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, you know. Well, the worst thing is if you have such a minor role, like, what do you do? Yeah.

What do I do? I really not involved. I talked to Jimmy once and said talk to Todd. So, yeah. I got, I made three phone calls. These guys all said, or this one guy in particular with, I think, someone else backing it up, that he had sold them. kilos like 80 whatever and here's the thing it could be years later that's the thing yeah it could

be too you you could clean up your life get a regular job and he did something you did three years late earlier they got you on a wire three years earlier you know how much money that drains you so after that like he went they arrested him we got him out I think the next day but then he's fighting that case you know and it's just like they have thrown these numbers around and he's all stressed out so I ended up before he ended up getting sentenced or anything I moved back home just because not that they wanted me to or anything i was starting to like go back to lawrenceville anyway starting to like get stuff started to do more drugs and uh it wasn't going to work out because he was going to flip out on me we were going to end up fighting he's a tough dude big dude you

know so i think my mother recognized that and just said won't you just come back and live here so then this is i'm like 19 20 this is when everything just just goes really bad um because it's been going so well yeah well i never felt like a loser before okay i was gonna say this is like the first time where i was like i'm i'm a fucking loser right i have nothing going on well you're because you're just a young a teenager yeah nobody expects anything ever you as a kid yeah right exactly yeah just kind of bouncing off the wall and i was like living off of false stuff you know with this is all i care about or whatever but uh you know i i just i remember like just having no no direction and just like feeling like I better never have kids like I really like had you know I just had my mind made up

that was worthless you know um so this is where the the starting to get high every day comes in right when you're getting high every day like I said here or all drug addiction is a math math problem that you have to figure out and the more you do the more you need right you know for tolerance so every day I'd have to you know fundraise is what I call it you know yeah yeah Like, and this is, this is every, I think everywhere has to figure out how to get whatever dollar amount. And it's crazy because at one time, one of my last runs years ago, I was with my ex, the only time I've ever got high with a, with a partner. And we had gone like a year and there's only been two days where we got to the nighttime without getting high. And that's from zero every day, you know.

And that's a hard thing to do. I'm talking like one person, $100 at least, you know. like every day coming up and I would have my hustles would be from you know like I would do robberies out of desperation first I would like I would go to the goodwill this was a good one one my favorite so I'm sorry to everybody that's going to see this that I've sold goodwill clothing to I'm sorry goodwill is a great place but I would go in goodwill because I knew I could easily take that stuff without much you know hassle and I would just look for clothes that look brand new you know and I would go down to some you know people that I knew needed clothes for their kids or for them or whatever and that people would buy them

and you know and every once in a while someone would be like there's someone's initials on this tag or something right I'd be like oh not that gone in there and I would always tell them I ripped the tags off immediately so that if the cops grab me you know right so I that was one I would go to right aid we had a bunch of right aids by our house or by where I live and we would terrorize these right aids we were talking about last night at the fireworks. We would just walk in and they'd be like, ran on the phone to the police like their hair, they're here, because we would go in with bags and just do a whole shelf,

you know what I mean? And the amount of like every day going to bars, want to buy these cameras, buy these batteries, all this stuff. And, you know, like I've worked one day for the Sierra Club, you know, the Sierra Club, the magazine. It's like an environmentalist thing, right? Yeah. So I couldn't do it. I couldn't do the pitched door to door, right, like where you go and you're like,

hello, I'm with the Sierra Club, blah, blah, blah, and you're like trying to get them to give you either donations or buy a subscription. Right. Couldn't do it, right? So I didn't go back. But later on, I'm like, I still got the clipboard and the badge and stuff. Like, maybe I could just do that, represent myself and get money if I can. But all of a sudden, I could do it.

I could do the spiel. I could get through it because my motivation was different. Right. It was like I had to do it, you know. So that would be another go-to-do. I'd go door to door, like, you know, trying to people give me $20. You know, most people, nothing. They'd slam the door on you.

But, you know, I had all these, you know, that. Because, like, I knew people are panhandled. Like, no offense, if you're a man and you're a dope thing, you should not be panhandle. And that's like, it is. It's just, I don't know. I hate, I did it one time, and it was the slowest time ever. And I just feel like, like go out and commit a crime, like a real man. You know what I mean?

It's horrible, bro. It is, it is. But like, I mean, come on. What is the, oh, God. Joe Pesci plays. Who does he play where he's beating the guy up and he says, if you were a real man, you'd be out stealing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I forget, he says the guy's name. He's covering for it. But anyway, I would do, I would do that stuff in white strips. You know, everyone wanted white strips. or batteries or stuff. So then the time where I would do these robberies. What's white strips? Press white strips.

Oh, okay. You know, when you go into it, you go into it anywhere and everything's locked up now. Yeah. I'm why. Right. We're a why. That's why you can't get a camera, a digital, you know, camera or the razors. You know what I'm.

I've had people where they have three lifetime supplies of those razors just because I would just get them over and they would just, you know, keep buying them or whatever. but uh so if i would get through some of that stuff and it would get to nighttime and i'd be still be dope sick everything's closed like you're not getting no money nowhere you know so i guess most people just suck that up and like go home and sweat it out that's when i'm like what are my options all right i know i can go into this store i would get creative i get a bag and a rock in a bag you know and i go in there and like thank i mean i probably did like 40 of them all together never had any problems with anybody saying like, you know, not giving the money up or like,

you know, someone in the store grabbing you because that stuff happens a lot. A rock in a bag. Yeah, yeah. I understand what, like a brown paper bag. You want to, you know, you want to make it look like you have a gun. Right. Right. So I would just grab a rock that, that has, you know, something to hold like this. And I put the bag over it and I go in like, you know, you don't got show it. You're just like, whatever, you know, I would, uh, the one I did from rehab. this is so I um and what do you're robbing these people like you're going in a car station okay yeah like the clerk you're going and saying hey give me what's in the register oh yeah I'm going at one in the morning you know they always give you what's in the register or they ever say

go fuck yourself I've never had anybody now I one of my other hustles was late night um and this is sorry I love the gay community you know for real like they're they are you know I've always you know had good friends in that community and stuff I have no problem but But, you know, I would, I would, like, walk with my shirt off at night, like, one in the morning. And someone would, you know, they would just, I don't know, they're coming from the bars and stuff. Right. So you see them, they come around. They go around again.

But, like, I'll tell you that the gays don't give it up. Like, because I would never have a gun. Right. So I would, like, you know, have to act like I had a gun or something. Maybe, like, 50% of the time they would give it up. Because, like, they'd get in the car. And, it would always be awkward as fuck. You know, they'd be like, you know, you know, and I would be, like, you know, you know,

And I would be like, I'd be super like, you know, because honestly, if I could do that, I would do it for the money. I just couldn't do that. Right. It wouldn't work. You know what I mean? It wouldn't be any good for, you know what I mean? Nobody's going to come out happy. No, no, no, no.

So, like, I would get in the car and it would be like, you know, a negotiation. And it's like, and then, you know, at a certain point, I'd be like, you know, I'd pull out whatever or like sometimes, one time he put the money in the console. So I just grabbed it, stuff like that. The times where I think maybe I pulled out, like I had a weapon, the one guy only gave, yeah, the one guy only gave me what he was going to give me, pay me. He had more money and I'm like, no, give me all the money. He's like, no. I'm like, all right, just give me that then.

You know what I mean? It's like I couldn't, most of the time, if you call my bluff, I got a run. Right. It's just no one ever did, thank God, you know. But the gay dudes, they, you know, they didn't. They were arguing. Yeah, yeah, they, you know. Uh-uh.

No, you are not. Yeah, that would be another one, man. But that's some gay dudes can fight, man. Insurance isn't a one-size-fits-all. And shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives' name-your-price tool for years. With the name-your-price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget.

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Take the stress out of shopping and find coverage that fits your life. On your terms, progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Have you, I mean, you've been in prison. Oh, they could rumble. They could rumble. Like, not all of them, but some of them can rumble more than, you know, your average dude by far. Listen, there was a gay guy that I remember one of the cops chased him.

I forget what he did, but he chased him into the bathroom. And the cop, like, kicked open the door in the stall looking for him. And the guy attacked him. Oh, yeah. And I mean, the cop was screaming. And I mean, he got him on the ground. He's fighting with him. And the cop was just, like, non, he was, hit the fucking deuses.

Yeah, right. The cops started coming. But you could hear him screaming. And he was the biggest asshole of a cop, too. Oh, yeah. You would have never thought he would behave this. I've seen some of them dudes, especially in county where they would get fucked with. And they would clean, like, beat someone's ass.

There was a couple of dudes legendary down there. But anyway, um, So I'm doing them as a last resort, right? Right. So the first, I ended up having a string of six altogether that I was on the run for. This is probably like the worst time of my life. They're connecting with you? Well, I was, I did them all back to back.

Yeah. I kept getting out on Bonn. Oh, okay. Yeah. So the first one was in, uh, was in Beaver County. Or no, the first one was in Allegheny. So Allegheny's Pittsburgh, right? So there's a county above it, Butler, and then below it's Beaver, right?

So I'm in Pittsburgh doing all that's where I do all my dirt at or whatever. So the first one was not, I didn't even do anything. It was like I shouldn't have been arrested for this. I seen this girl, Teresa, and she was saying that she was going to snatch this lady's purse. And I'm like, well, good luck with that. Like, I left, right? And now the ladies that got the corner. And I'm like, all right, well, and I go home.

She goes and does it. And then I end up leaving my house probably an hour later. And I got bowl cutters with me because I'm going to steal bike. You know, I would go over Pitt University and just cut the locks off. So I have them in my pants and I'm cutting through the cemetery because I don't want no one to see me carrying them. She's sitting in a cemetery had just stole this lady's purse but couldn't go anywhere because they were looking for her, right?

But she has the money. She's like, well, you go grab something for me and bring it back, right? Like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I should have just not come back. That would have been the back. Oh, I thought you didn't come back. I never did that to anybody.

Yeah. Like, none of my, there's one person that can say I did them wrong and I'll get to that but but uh i get the dope i come back we're sitting there on this hill right getting high and she's sniffing it at the time right so she's done right away i'm getting mine ready i got to cook it i i'm drawing it up into the thing into the the needle and the cops around us right and it's like i'm standing there and i can't believe i didn't do it looking back on it now i'm mad at myself i didn't because what are they going to do they're going to shoot me for putting the needle on my own arm you know i want the deal sick that day right whenever i had a needle full of dope in my hand i couldn't

believe but anyway they arrested us both for that they go to the lady and they ask her like um just the girl yeah and then the lady's like well he was he was there too and i'm like what are you talking about i didn't no i wasn't we go back and forth the cops because like i don't know i don't know so i'm just arresting them charging them with robbery blah blah so they take me to the county both of us. She bonds out right away because she has no criminal history or not her bonds low. Mine was like, I think, 5,000 straight, which is not bad. It's like $400 to a bondsman. This is the first time my older brother would screw me over for in the name of dope, right? I love my older brother to this day. He suffered a lot. So if anyone should be bad,

it's me and I'm not. So, you know, whatever, don't, you know, but he, I got this girl to pay my bond. When you pay a bondsman, you got a sign for it. You know, responsible. Yeah. So, you know, I knew she didn't want to do that. So I told her, get my brother, he'll sign for it. You know, he talked her into giving me the money. I'll just go pay it.

And he left me there in doapsick, in jail, right? I think I'm leaving. This dude's, like, messing with me. I beat the crap out of them thinking I'm leaving that day. Go to the hole. I'm up in the hole. Like, yeah, I'm out of here. Like, they're going to call my name any minute.

was there I was up there for 10 days until they went to the court hearing and they dropped it said you know the write-up so I end up going back to the population and I don't know what happened but I kind of I'm figuring it out like it's the only thing it could have happened right unless I have another detainer or something but he would do that again to me he did that to me twice with bail money the second time I didn't tell the girl to give it to him right did that on her own you know I never would have but then he also was part of my stake and informant, you know, which I'll get to. But so I eventually do bond out on that one, right?

So now I'm out of one bond, Pittsburgh, right? So I go to rehab in Beaver County, Gateway. It's like a pretty big rehab out there. It's got like some little halfway houses attached to it, you know. So I do, I finished rehab. I go to this place called the Moffat House. It was like eight, eight people, eight men living together, you know, and like going to meetings and all that stuff.

stuff you have a counselor there so as soon as i get there i meet this kid scott um we just hit it off right away right he was from out there he just had a baby and i didn't know anyone out there right so i'm just like you know kind of lost no car or nothing he like we get cool when he just makes takes it like make sure that i'm always included in what he's doing right like super good dude like he would uh his girl would always come you know with the baby and she if he was going on a pass he would like make sure I could go with them, you know, go to the mall, I'd go with them. And I was writing a lot at the time. I remember he would, I wrote a novel, and we were in the same room together, and he would

just read it out loud, you know, while we were sitting there, like killing time and stuff. But he was a good friend, a really good dude, right? So we were in there for months together, and we had a real young counselor named Tabitha. And it's just probably her first, like, real job. because she's like some of the stuff was not real professional she probably wouldn't it did later you know right but uh i got real cool with her where i'd be in there like just talking to her like all about real stuff you know what i mean and uh never like made no move or nothing but like sometimes i thought you know it was possible or whatever she looked really good too and uh one day rachel calls me

out of nowhere that's scott's girlfriend right and says she's in love with me right out of nowhere Like if you would have told me, because at the house they call, you know, someone calls the so-and-so there and they call you. Like, if you'd have told me she was on the phone for me, I would have gave you a thousand reasons why before I got to that. Didn't see it coming. She's beautiful. It was a beautiful girl.

And, you know, I was immediately like, well, I can't, you know, Scott, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, I ended up having an affair with her, right? Which was terrible, horrible. The worst thing I could have did to anyone at that point, right? and yeah I was fucking up um so you know she ends up we I end up telling them because like she's trying to keep it a secret yeah but like they're kind of breaking up anyway but like he's Scott's a tough dude you know I knew I was gonna have to fight him I knew it was gonna come down to that eventually so um at a certain point I called him and told him because I left tabitha gave me an

ultimatum so tabitha found out what was going on with rachel and she knew everything all the ends and outs of it. And she was crying whenever I told her about this, like crying, real tears. And I'm like, I don't understand. Like, what, so she said, you either can't see her anymore or you have to leave. It didn't make sense to me. Like, you know, it's like, I don't know. So that's when she was crying when I told her I was leaving. You know, I was like, well, because I was like, I don't know. I like gripped on the Rachel as like the only thing in my life at that point, really good you know um so i end up moving out i get an apartment out there and then i tell scott what's going on because he didn't hear for me for like two weeks right he's asking her like we got

find him make sure he's okay so fucked up i know it is it is um you're a horrible person no i know i know believe me it's come back on me it's come back on me the last few years right yeah i've i've had my claw cleaned, deservedly so. So I tell him, and he was a hothead. I mean, he was a hot head. And I used to lift with him. I knew how strong he was. He was a strong dude. And he's like, you know, meet me here, blah, blah, blah. So I go to meet him. He didn't come the first time or whatever, right? And then the second, now, I'm admit, he probably would have wipped my ass. He would have did me. You know, I'm not saying I would have beat him. But after that, he just let it go. Like, then we weren't friends or whatever, but he just was like she's not worth it like and then he wanted to be like he wanted to be friends still

which was so fucked up like you know and and and because now you don't want to look at them yeah right right right right because i'm such a piece of shit you know what i mean like so i'm living out there my only real connection is her right but i don't want to be around her all the time you know so i'm going into pittsburg so i i forgot when the bus goes to pittsburgh i'll go into pittsburg i'll go into Pittsburgh for a few days, get high, come back. I start getting worried. I don't want to, I don't want to get dependency, right, on dope again. So I would do it two days or so, come back and be in my apartment and just dying in there, so bored. I got out of TV and everything, but like once you start, once you let that thing into you again, I haven't done an opiate

in years. If I did one today, tomorrow, yeah, it's like I can't live without it. Right. You cannot, like, I would, I would just mortgage my entire, like, you know, I would just mortgage my entire life for one day of that again you know whereas today that doesn't make any sense to me you know know so i'm finding myself back there like desperate and i know i know what i'm doing i know what's going to happen right you know so i don't want it to happen but so i end up uh i have this girl missy come out we're getting high together rachel catches comes to my house whenever she's there miss miss Melissa left she's that too Melissa left the door open oh that's i mean yeah so Melissa Melissa so Melissa OD, another one.

But she left the door open. Her and Rachel were fighting. And then so Rachel leaves. Is Rachel still with? No, no, no. No, they broke up pretty much immediately whenever, you know. And we were, me and her were supposed to be together, but it was never going to work because, like, it started on infidelity.

You know what I mean? And like, I don't know. We were both, I just can't. I think she thought she was going to get something from me. You know, I don't know. She, like, really liked the writing stuff. And, like, she was just, like, enamored and wanted something different, I think. Yeah.

you know that was let down probably right you know but i didn't even give her a chance to feel let down like i'm like you know doing my own thing so then i find myself stuck out there some days and i start committing little crimes to get money so there was a shop and saved by there so i would go up and i would steal dvds sell them real quick and then i have enough money to get a bus and then go get high and then come back so do that and then i start writing bad checks you know once i I burned the DVDs. So I do get all the way to where like my only options are really to go rob something, right? Because it's a little town.

There's not much there. So I robbed. There was a piece of place there. I robbed that. And I robbed another place before I robbed the place I got to call for. So the place they got called for was a dairy queen. Now I don't have transportation. So I got to do all these things on foot, right?

Which is very hard to get away with. Very stupid. Yeah. So this dairy queen is literally a. mile and a half from where I'm living, right? I didn't think it out great, but there's nothing around there. It's like I can't rob someone, you know, I don't know if anything is in the house. And you're going to run a mile and a half to get home by that point.

No, they got me. Yeah. So I go in there, no, but out of gunny, I had a butcher knife. You know, I did butcher knives a lot. We'll go in there with a butcher knife. Got the money. Get away. Now there's a bridge and a river between my house and there, right?

So I get spotted right before the bridge. right so i run down to the river and they're chasing me and i get into the river i don't know where i'm going where i'm you know they let the dogs out dogs are on me so they arrest me i go up um get taken to beaver county jill where i've never been um robbery charge you know it was like robbery uh assault because i put the knife to her neck you know or his neck i'm sorry and then uh so dope sick again and then i get i got got this girl to bond me out After, I got through the whole sickness. So it was like two weeks or whatever.

I had to talk to her every day for two weeks to get her to do it. So she bonds me out. So now I'm out on two. Now I'm out on the Beaver one. I'm out on the one in Pittsburgh. So then the third one, start getting high again. And then by this time, I understand when I start getting high, my shelf life is short, right? Because I'm doing these ridiculously high risk reward crimes.

Right. Can't keep doing that. So I start getting high. paranoid and I go to rehabs, right? Because I want to get clean. I want to stop, you know. So I go to this rehab in Pittsburgh, which is, I'm sorry, the worst rehab, probably in the world is such a bad rehab because they take so many jail people. Right. It just doesn't mix. You can't do that because a lot of people are going to say, yeah, I'm a drug addict. Yeah, yeah. Send me to rehab. Yeah. Yeah. So they get there and now you're in a room with half drug addicts,

half not drug addicts or dealers even. And like the drug addicts aren't going to share honestly about, you know, I suck dick for whatever, you know what I mean? They're not going to say that whenever there's half people that are like, what the fuck? Yeah. Don't, you know. So it's a terrible place for more than one reason. So I didn't know that at the time. I go in there, check in there.

And now they give you in detox for opiate withdrawal. They give you stuff that's actually effective. Like Suboxone will normalize you. Make you feel normal. Believe it or not, it's a hard thing to believe it. it really is because the physical withdrawal is the worst thing that you can experience. So back then they gave you catapress and librium, which is like something to lower your blood pressure.

And then the librium, I think it's for anxiety or something. But it does nothing. Like you might as well not even take it because instead of feeling crazy bad and like you take it, you're just going to be a little bit groggy and still feel the same. Right. So I was like day two, day three.

And this rehab was right in the middle of like a residential neighborhood, real bad neighborhood. Insurance isn't a one-size-fits-all. And shopping for it shouldn't feel like squeezing into something that just doesn't fit. That's why drivers have enjoyed progressives' name-your-price tool for years. With the name-your-price tool, you tell them what you want to pay, and they show you options that fit your budget. Enough hunting for discounts, trying to calculate rates, and tinkering with coverages. Maybe you're picking out your very first policy

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Take the stress out of shopping And find coverage that fits your life On your terms Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates Pricing Coverage Match Limited by State Law. And then the yard had a big green fence around it, so you couldn't see out to the street. And then that's where we would smoke at in that backyard. So I'd decide I'm leaving, right?

No real plan, but like I can't do this. I need to go get money somehow and get high. So I jumped the fence, run up the street, get a bag in a rock, you know, go up to a broad daylight. go up to a um is like a wilkinsburg in pittsburg which is like a predominantly african-american neighborhood pretty bad and uh a big gas station we're in and up people everywhere i don't know how i did it i go in there i rob it i get the money i run out of alan iverson jersey on i remember because i ripped it off while i was running back to the rehab and through it probably shouldn't have did that but uh for the trail because they will get a dog and they'll catch your scent right

so i run all the way back to the rehab jump over the fence now i'm back because I had nowhere to go. Once I robbed the place, I'm like, I don't, I don't know anywhere. I don't know anywhere around here. Like, I have to get on a bus or, you know, the rehab is all. I run back. I jump in without them knowing. But then right when I'm jumping in, a kid's coming out that's a client. And he's like, where would you at, dude? But blah, blah. I'm like, mind your own fucking business, right? So I start fighting with him. And then I just like push past him to get inside and then go, because he wasn't even on my unit. He was on like the, I was in detox. He was in detox.

I'm like the rehab side. Goes and tells somebody. So I'm in my, in my detox laying there like I've been there the whole time. And they come in like, hey, can we talk to you? And I'm like, I'm like, well, I can't get up. I can't move. You know what I mean? Trying to make them think.

They made me go to the office. I go to the office. And where did you go, bro? I'm like, what are you talking about? They're like, you left. You left the rehab and came back. Where did you go? I'm like, no, I didn't.

Now, I don't know if they had cameras. Right. But I said, like, look at the cameras. Look at the cameras. Right. So they're, you know, they're like, we will, we will, but we know, you know, whatever. So I start saying, like, I got all this money in my pocket. I'm like, I'm like, well, I'm leaving anyway.

I don't care. Like, I'm going to go get changed and I'm going to leave, right? So, no, they're saying you have to leave. They were telling me first. You have to leave, right? Now, cops are everywhere. You can hear the sirens out there. Like, I don't, it's probably been seven minutes since I robbed it and got back.

Right. So you can hear the cops everywhere. So I don't want to go out there. but at the same time I got money so it's like I have to get out there eventually but so they're saying I have to leave so I'm like all right can I um call a cab and I'll wait in the office I'm like oh let me just wait in the office like no you can wait outside so then I'm good I get my stuff getting ready to go out and they're like listen we talked about it you can actually you can stay you can stay if you want I'm like no I want to leave right I should have fucking stay should have stayed I'm like no I need to leave I got to leave I got to stay I'm like no I need to leave I got to stay I you know this money burning a hole in my pocket i need to go get high so there's like a the the front was just steps and it's kind of kind of buried in so i just got in there sat there waited for this cab which took forever of course finally the cab comes i get in it tell dude take me to uh lose bar which is over where i live and i know there's a pay phone right there so my plan is just go there

pay phone call and then if my dude's there i'll have the cab take me down so i do that we're riding over cab he's making small talk or whatever i'm like yeah so get in get into the thing i make the call i call my boy poo i'm like yeah he's like poo you got uh you got anything yeah i'm good i need a bundle whatever i'm coming down get back in the cab and cab driver acting normal drives like two or three blocks there's a cop coming this way and the cop just pulls right in front of the thing stops the cab he's like just acts like he knows he just stops the car and i'm just like I'd put all, shove all the money and did a seat. But what happened was, somebody seen me get into the cab.

Like, I don't know if it was someone searching or someone in a house that knew about the robbery. Something. They ended up being on this discovery. They seen me. They called the cab. They called the police. The police called the cab company. The cab company radioed the driver when I was in the thing using the pay phone.

Couldn't have been when I was there. If it would have been during the ride, I would have heard it. Right. And I would have said, all right, let me. F out of here, you know. But no, it was, so I get back in. They're like, just drive down the street normal like you would, you know. We'll cut you off. Yeah. So pull me out of the car, rest me, back down the bullpen, dope sick. That's the other time my brother spent the bail money. So I ended up being there like a month rather than, you know, whatever it was, a couple weeks,

through the sickness again. After I get out of, after I get out of there for that time, I'm trying to do good, but I just can't. I can't. I can't stop. I have nothing going on in my life at all. Right. No trade, no interest in anything. Like, never had a real serious or good relationship. You know, I've had, always had a girlfriend, but just nothing, you know, no one cares about me.

I don't care about anybody. My family's giving up on me, you know. My brother is the type that he just roves everyone close to him. Right. So, like, my family knew that I will never take anything from it, you know. So I could stay there, but I wouldn't. I would always stay away. because one, I don't want the restrictions of that.

Plus, I just don't like, you know, even though I know I love them, they love me. I don't want them seeing me like that every day. Right. And me, it's just so shameful already. But so anyway, I, this leads to the, to the robbery that really got me, got me, uh, pinned up. So as I was telling you, Beaver County, Pittsburgh and then the county above, it's Butler. Butler is notoriously like don't come up here or we'll fucking bang the shit out of you if you get arrested up here from Pittsburgh, you know, or from any big city. So my, I'm, I find this store, right?

And the thing that was unique about it was they had cartons of cigarettes out in the aisles, right? There's a gas station like any other gas station. But instead of it, you know, most places stock their things and put them. And that's another thing I started doing was going in. Yeah, they put them up here or they put them behind the, they got to go get them yeah one of my biggest hustles was just walking in and going into stock rooms right because if you go to like a right aid or something it's not probably not like us anymore but they have two people working you know someone always calls off you know what i mean so i would just walk in go into the

stock room and then there's always exits back here so you might grab boxes not know what's in them right you know what i mean or sometimes if you got a little extra time i've gotten like i've gone in there sometimes whenever places were like really understaff have a car pull up in the back and just as much as you could fill your car with boxes and boxes, and then you get them home and you find out these tampons. You know what I mean? Whatever. You're going to sell it.

You're going to get something from it, but that was another one. But so this, I wanted to get to this Butler gas station because I knew I could just go in the house, fill up a garbage bag with cartons, and that's a lot of money. You know, cigarettes are the easiest thing to sell. So I don't drive. I need some, you know. My brother tells me he got a stolen car that,

we could use right so i'm like all right you know just let me know when we'll go up so when he shows up he's like well uh jamie's with us right he's like and i'm like i know james he's from our neighborhood but i'm like no like i'm not it's me and you only like i'm already worried about you you know what i don't i don't do roguards with anybody you know right like i'm already worried about you i don't need someone else that's not doing anything he's like well it's his car too blah blah blah so whatever man like so on the way up there i'm telling mostly jamie like you're about to get paid good money for nothing like just don't talk about this to anybody right not no one and then so we get up there and it's uh it was pretty simple now i didn't tell them i was going to rob it straight rob it right

what they think you were going to do go in with a bag and oh okay you know um i don't know if i decided that in the moment or not but i ended up robbing it right right i went in laid the two people down what would you have on your gun had a fake gun i used to have this gun that had you ever see the gun the toy guns that had the orange thing on the end yeah you just real real to take the orange thing off you know just click it off yeah and you know there's a couple places you got to take a black marker and just but it it looks super real yeah you know so i would use that and if you know guns you're going to know but most people don't most people don't well they're too scared yeah exactly yeah they're not examining it that's why they're not going if you get robbed by a heroin act look at the gun

because what's the did you ever see um uh was it snatch oh yeah yeah yeah yeah with the o but the mantee guns yeah yeah it says a replica oh right yeah the guy pulls out yeah the other guy pulls out his fucking desert eagle right he's like he's like oh i'll shoot you he's like well yeah since my gun says desert eagle across the barrel. Right. And yours says... Then say replica,

it did say something though. Yeah. Because I remember. Yeah. It says something on it. Whatever. He's like, he's like,

I think I'm gonna be... I sanded it off. I remember. They could say, put it in a space where you could kind of see it on the barrel or something. You know,

if it's pointed at you, like you notice it's fake. You just sand. I just sanded it off, you know. But anyway, so I go in there. I get them to, I lay them down by there's an older guy

and a woman and I laid them behind the counter. And I go and I or the old lady I had stand up get all the money right right so then I'm filling this bag with cartons I go back up get the money from her go out there's a little patch of wood so I had them parked on the other side. Is your face covered? Yeah yeah okay yeah so I have them parked on the other side here right so there's like a little patch of woods it's like maybe 50 yards. There's like a couple of buildings here but they were it was no activity whenever we parked you know it was like really the best setup because the main thing is can't have no one see that car because we have an hour drive. you know or like 45 minutes right and if they know what car are in you're not getting back so i get through the woods run in jump in telling them go like go go go go so we get up to the light and of course like james what's going on i'm like dude just shut the fuck up sit down just quit turning around and talking to me you know because he's like i'm i'm in the back on on the ground you know what i mean so then my brother's the first person at the light now this is like a highway

the gas station's right here there's like four it's like four different ways you can go or come from and he's the first person at the light and we're waiting for all these lights to change but you're hearing like sirens and he's like I'm going I'm gone I'm like no dude no don't like wait for the effing light right so he does waits for a light we get back no problem right so we get back uh I go sell all the cigarettes I paid I think I'm like 600 dollars for nothing right my brother like eight hundred dollars you know driving and then I keep everything else. I tell them, get rid of this car. Do not use this car again. Now, I thought I should take the battery out. I should have did that. But I told them, this is the only way we can get caught

is this car, right? So, yeah, okay. Yeah, sure thing. I don't know how they, they smoke rocks. That's why their money was probably gone so fast. Right. So they're desperate again. Now they need to go steel so they're boosting in it going to like a strip mall you know going in running out with stuff not knowing that whenever i jumped in the car there's an old folks home right there in front of us and we can't see but old people like to look out the window a lot you know what i mean so they they reported that the vehicle to making the model so then they get in a high speed chase boosting so i'm at home just sitting there not doing nothing and i get a phone call hello county jail from inmate and it's my brother and first thing i say is like please tell me you weren't in that

car no dude no no no what happened i got we got we got a car but we were in the car but i'm like like dude so i think i asked him like did did anyone talk to you about and he's like no no no well i hung up immediately went upstairs packed the you know whatever i thought i needed the take and I went on the run immediately because I knew I knew it was over right there you know and um as it turned out I would read later in the discovery like they were like tripping over each other to tell you know right arrested like you know who's gonna tell first you know so now I'm on the run I got them I got three open I was say it's too if you just picked up the phone said what's going on and they said and they said yeah bro they they they this what what did you do well I didn't

do nothing you did some whoa whoa whoa whoa Well, don't drag me in it. You know what the problem is? He looks just like me. Oh, really? So they also got me coming through the woods on the other side with my mask off. Oh, okay. So I don't know if it was just the car.

I know the car had a, had a whatever, APB on it or whatever. Yeah, but these people are also 100, 200 feet away. Yes, exactly. And, but they had some type of description on me. And he looks just like me. What's what I'm saying? He looks just like you. Well, he should have took it.

Right. You should. He would have taken it. Yes. answer the phone correctly. If it was me. What? Yeah. What are you doing? Oh, no. I told you I didn't incriminate. I didn't incriminate myself on the phone. You did. You said, tell me, you said, tell me you weren't that call. Yeah, right, right, right. They didn't ask you anything about. Right. I wouldn't have said to about. If he said, yeah, man, that place, that place,

you know, oh, no, no, no, no. Don't throw me in with your shit. Look, I, I knew, I knew before we even did it that if any heat comes on. Right. He's telling. And talking shit, look, I'll tell you, in a minute the one time I did tell on somebody and I hate myself to this day for it because it's the only thing I've ever done that anyone can say where I'm from he did me fucking dirty right and I did do someone dirty and no one went to admit that they did but most people out there did and there's a easy way to tell and your go to PA docket you see the the case actions you go right down to him DL 14 and all that there's an easy way to tell if someone is is a co-operate of someone else's case yeah yes being transferred for all that

But anyway, I knew that was a bad one. But anyway, so they come get, you take off all the room? No, no, I left immediately. Yeah. I knew. Like, he wouldn't admit it then, but I knew. And it was, my instincts were right. So within a week, I'm on the news for Butler.

Butler's making the biggest deal. Like, it was like, like, I took 70 people hostage, you know, like the Pope was involved. And I, you know, it is really like crime stoppers, reward. So at the same time, there's a pizza outlet down in Lawrenceville, where I live. So I do this. No, I don't tell no one about this. I go, I actually pulled, it was like, I pulled a thing from a door, like a decoration, a plastic decoration. It was like an American flag or something. Right. Ripped it off, put it over me, you know, as a, like a disguise or whatever. So, and then I, I had the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

kids working maybe like 18, 20. Friday night or Saturday night, super late. It was like one the morning. They were about to close. I got all the money. It was probably like six brand. Right. He's super easy robbery. I pull run out. I run out the back, run up this hill, take the plastic off, get rid of it, run through the cemetery, take my shirt off. So I run up to lose bar and everyone's up there party and I go in there. Now I don't have a shirt on, right? So I threw my shirt. Also on the way up the hill, My cousin's a Pittsburgh police officer. Now, at this point, he's like the, at this time, he's just a regular police officer.

Now he's like right under the chief of police. I think he's a shift lieutenant. Right. But he come flying down the hill before I could get to the cemetery with his partner. Sees me, jumps, parks, you know, pull, what the fuck are you doing? What are you doing? I'm like, I'm going home. I'm going home.

He's like, get the fuck out of here. So years later, I asked him, like, you remember that night? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, you, I won't even say what he said because he still has a career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But basically, like, you know. But anyway, so I've run up through the cemetery to that bar take my, and I don't have a shirt on. The bartender keeps telling me, you need to, you got to put her shirt on and leave.

I know what I mean? I'm like, I'm in my head. I'm like, I just did this robbery. I don't want to be. So I buy everyone a drink in the thing, you know, thinking like that will let her, no, you got to have a shirt. So then I try buying someone. his shirt and they sell me the shirt but then now they don't have a shirt now they want their

shirt back so I go out to the pay phone I'm trying to get it's like two in the morning I'm trying to get my drug dealer to come and I'm like I'll pay you double I'll pay I'll give you you know 500 for a bundle right I can't get a hold of anybody so I end up just leaving walking walking around now this kid Neil Bankey was around just materialized out of nowhere around this time and just like hanging out with people drinking. I didn't know him that well. I hung out with him a few times. I run into him that night. He's like, yeah, I got a place to stay down the street. Come on. You can, I'm like, all right. I didn't want to stay there. When I got there, one of my other friends lived right like four houses up. So I went up to their house, knocked on the door. I was like, Jared, I'll give you, I'll give you that

$300 if you let me slay here, right? He's like, yeah, yeah, hell yeah. He lived there with another kid named Jared. Other ones are, well, no, dude. Like, why is he paying you all that money? And I'm like, shut the Fuck up. What do you care? Like, what do you care? I got into a fight when I'm over it. It's like, I grew up with both of these dudes.

Right. You know, so number one, they know, I'm, you know, but that's what I'm paying you for. That's what I'm paying all the money for.

Right. So they say no. So I still have a resentment towards them because of what was about to happen. So I end up staying with Neil, right? Pass that way. He has a person come. We've got dope.

You know what I mean? No, I don't ever take the money out of my pocket. Right. I don't ever say, this is where I'm coming. from you know what i mean none of that i'm just telling them like i got a little bit of money you know you want to can you get something blah blah yeah so we're getting high i end up passing out or whatever

i wake up and he's tying me up right tying me up tying me to this uh and who is this this dude neil banky i would find out way more about him he wasn't from our neighborhood he was from carrick which is like maybe 10 minutes away at different part of the city right so and he just showed up out of nowhere right and is like wanting to hang out with people you know what i mean so it was fishy to me too at the time but it's like what do you you're you know but he's got some stuff or he can get some stuff yeah he had a dealer that would come right yeah yeah he was living in an abandoned house right but it was like not bad though it was like you know there's nothing in it you know but like he's like you could stay here i'm like good you know i had nowhere to stay so so so i wake up and he's tying me up right and i'm like what the

fuck and i don't know like uh we we we were smoking and then we were uh like shot the dope but like i don't know i don't know how he knew he ended up telling on me for this robbery right never told him anything about it right but anyway so he's tying me up i wake up we start struggling he has all the money sitting on the table right over here i can see it right and i try to tackle him he grabs the money he's dropping it on the way out while he's running he's running from me now through the house the back door's wide open runs right through it i'm running he's dropped money i know that's all the money i have i'm grabbing the money he's dropping right because i'm like seeing all of it just gone you know what i mean which is like i can't tell you how how like that's the worst feeling

in the world like because you never hit a robbery like that with that much money right you know what i mean it was like i i had big plans like i'm going to get my life together with this money you know what i mean like never mind the 18 cases i have opened or whatever but so He gets away, but I think he's dropping money on purpose. Right. Because you're not dropping that much money. He's like dropping a bunch. It ended up being like over $1,000.

Yeah. So I think he's dropping it to get me to slow down and it worked. So he gets away, got me for like, you know, by that point, it was probably like $4,000 because we spent a lot getting high. Right. So a month later, this is why I read my paperwork later, he calls, he has a relationship with a detective, right? Now, it doesn't say any of this, but I think they set him up in that house and wanted him to set up drug dealers, right? Because he came from Carrick and he set big people up over there. Right.

Big, like, you know, they wanted to kill him. He's dead now. But they wanted to kill him. So I would find all this out later. So he, they, I find out that they got a warrant out on me for this one now. And I'm like, how to fuck? Who, like, who turned me in for this? Because I didn't tell anybody, not one person.

You know, like not many people are running around doing them robberies in my neighborhood, but still, like you can't just assume, you know what I mean? Like this person did it just because he does all the other ones. You know what I mean? But, you know, other people, here's people doing one here or there. So anyway, after that, the heat's really getting on me, right? With Butler, most of the time, precedent. With the reward, I got like some of my, not my friends, but like, you know, some of associates

trying to turn me in, like looking for me. Like, where's Waldo? Like, you know what I mean? Trying to get this reward money. And they're not even, like, trying to hide it. You know, it's like a game. You know what I mean? So on the news repeatedly, over and over.

And like this one time, you know, I'm staying on the streets all this time, you know, friends house here and there. We went into West Penn Hospital, right? Me, two other friends, we had been smoking all night, shooting dope. We go in there. We would go in there just to, like, lay down and sleep because they would have, like, waiting rooms, you know? Yeah.

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recliners or whatever. So if you could just sneak past like the front part, get up there, you're good. So we go in there. We're up there up there like lounging around for hours. And then someone comes in or like you got to leave, you know. So we all get up. My friend, my friend Lou or my friend Stu gets up and his crack pipe falls out of his pocket and it's on the thing right now keep in mind I'm on the run heavy at this time everyone knows it so they see that fight and they're like oh oh oh get against the wall they're not cops but they're like uh they wearing uniforms like hospital security or whatever so they immediately radio for police back up downstairs right against the wall yeah go fuck yourself oh no i touch well the the door's closed right

But I'm closest to the door. There's one caught by the door. We're all in these chairs. My chair's closest to the door. So I get up. The other two go over with my two friends. I try to make a run for it. As soon as he sees the pipe and he radios for police downstairs,

I'm like, I can't go down there. I have to make it up. Yeah. So I got my hand on the door. They didn't even get to open it. And they were on me, like pulling me away from the door. So they're like, you know, what are you trying to run for? Take me downstairs.

All three of us separate us. They search everything on me, right? They pull out an article that I cut out of the paper about me being on the run, robbery, you know, Craig Lafey on the run, wanted for several robberies, right? Now, I have my last name tattooed on my stomach. Uh-huh. They see this. Dude looks at the article.

He's like, just closes it, put it back, right? We're sitting there now. I was given my name of Sean Brady, I think, but they knew that, right? So I'm watching, like, they're asking. my friends what's his name where's he live and the same thing and then there's cops like like all together like 10 different cops came through and they're standing at this window and i can hear the one cop tell me the other one he was just on the news the other night i remember like he was just on the news like you remember this and then he ended up talking to him and the other guy talked him into no that that

dude was a juvenile and he was like it was for some other case that he was confused about right but dude was right he had to have been because he was saying like he was on the news i was on the news almost every day So they end up We're in cuffs I'm in cuffs I'm in cuffs, they're not Actually, I'm in cuffs, they're not So they take me out

And then we're standing there Right like about to step onto the paddy wagon And they're like, all right, take the cuffs off And take them off. They're like, you're banned from this hospital Don't ever come back to this hospital again. They get it. They said to get out of here

And they're like, run, run. I'm like, you got telling me twice. I was gone. I couldn't believe that they let me go. So I got away that time. They told you to run. Yeah, yeah. So what they can say?

He got away. So I ended up getting arrested by CMU police, which is Carnegie Mellon Police, which is like, you know, I mean, it's not embarrassing because I don't have pride in like my running abilities. But it's like, damn, dude, like CMU is like they're barely even a police force. It's like a college, like a little college, you know. So I was stealing bikes over there and they had a sting operation because if so many bikes were getting stolen. Right. We would still fat five, ten a day. Right.

You know, and we had people that would buy them right away, you know, so, and we obviously, we were giving very favorable prices because we're just trying to get high real quick. So I'm going to go over. I got my bull cuters. I cut, and I should have known, like this is a little bit too good. It was like a $3,000 bike by itself on this rack with a $80 lock on it. You know, that rate there is like someone would have stole it already or that person is not going to be that dumb to have that cheap of a lock on that. bike but you know you tell yourself what you need to because you're trying to kind of get better so i cut the lock got on the bike and i see them coming as i'm getting on it but i'm on a hill so i just

start i swerve around them going down the hill it just started a chase that lasted probably probably like 15 minutes in real time and this dude would not give up he would not give up i ended up losing the bike i'm running on foot got onto a roof at a certain point climbed up a fire skate was on a roof thought I was good. I was like prepared to lay there for like three hours. Then they had a helicopter. I don't even know if it was for me. Right. But like I'm looking. There's nothing about, you know, it's like a, you know, the roof was like a black top and I got a white shirt on or whatever. And I'm like, there's no trees or nothing. Like they're going to see me. It probably wasn't for me, but it's like, I don't know. So I end up getting down. Dude, they, they catch me. Dude would not give up.

I mean, he was at first, like when I got by him, he was like this, grab me. And then I had so much distance between them i couldn't believe that i caught but i got caught get arrested and and then then i'm going ping ponging from county to counting right because i got you know multiple charges some i haven't even been arraigned on yeah like the pizza outlet all that stuff so i start beaver sentences me first or they give me a plea plea offer first it was 11 half the 23 county time right like great 11 and a half months yeah because i had no adult felonies yet yeah but as soon as I took that now I do for the other ones. Yeah.

They happen chronologically. Yeah. So as long as they happened after that Beaver one, they can use that against me. Right. I didn't know that really at the time. You know what I mean? I'm just hearing 11.5.23. So I take it.

I take that. So I do that time. Then I go to Allegheny. So I have Allegheny and Beaver left. So I have four in Allegheny, one in Beaver. The one, the one, or all of them, they end up revoking all the bonds on them, right? obviously so I consolidate them all in front of one judge in Allegheny because I had four judges you know all that stuff so it was down to two judges was judge cash and judge in all house

that's like night and day one is like has a reputation for murdering people right and the other one is like the drug court judge right you know even though I'm not going for drug court you know he understands yeah you know so I uh this girl says she'll get me a lawyer and I I I I'm talking to someone at the records office I knew and asked her who would be a good lawyer for him for now. So she gives me the name of this idiot. This dude was such an idiot. But he was the right lawyer to get because they were like super cool. This dude was such an idiot.

He was like he couldn't even, I mean, he couldn't do anything, the simplest task. Right. So I hire him at the same time. Butler comes with a 15 to 30, right? It was the first plea, 15 to 30 years. And there was, there was nine. They were just putting anything on it. Right.

Like it was, it was just crazy originally. So what happened, I didn't know this, but Nauhaus brings me in front of him for the four. And he's like, do you want to plead out to these now? And do you want to go to Butler after?

He's like, because they're going to sentence you consecutively. I'm just telling you that. Yeah. He's like, so I'm like, well, I would rather like have it run concurrent. He's like, well, then you can't get sentenced here first. He's like,

because I know how they are. They're going to really hammer you. He was right, and, like, he had no business doing that. You know, I wrote him a letter later, like thanking him. But he had no reason other than he didn't like Butler. He, like, fucking hated the way they treated people, I guess, or whatever. Right. So he's like, I'm going to do that, you know, if you postpone it down here,

and then they're going to run out of postponements, they're going to have to do something, right? He didn't say he'd run it consecutive. Right. But that's, or concurrent, but that's kind of what I took from it. So I end up going up there. Butler, they were pissed, but then they ended up offer me a, they said the last one was a 10 to 20. That's the last offer we're going to give you. Now, Jade lit Jamie out of jail to come and find me when I was out.

Like, you know, now they don't need both of them to snitch either. So now my brother is getting nothing out of it. Yeah. Now they're just going all with him. So I say no to the 10 to 20, right? And they're like, we're going to trial. I'm like, all right, well, because I'm, I want to make him get on the stand. You know what I mean?

Yes. People are saying, he's telling people, I'm not, you know what I mean? It's like, no, you are. I got the paperwork and I'm going to make you testify. Right. That's what you're going to do. So he ends up. They get to my trial date, the day before, because they moved me up for like three days before.

Like five to ten? No, three and a half to seven. Nice. Yes. And how long you've already done what, six months in jail? They wouldn't take that book because what happens? So I get the three and a half to seven, right? I sign for that.

They're like, okay, sentencing three months, right? So then I go back to Allegheny, Nauhaus, just the biggest miracle in the world. Like, this is uncalled for what he did. But he gave me 15 to 30 months, right, time served. The reason he picked 15 is because I had 15 months total for everything, you know, including before the bond outs and everything. So it's 15 months.

So he's knowing, like, I'm going to give you time. served on this and then you have to start fresh up there but you know this is four robberies and everything so he does that immediate release and then seven years probation so i go back to the jail after i'm happy as hell and then they're like the next day they call me to go to western and i'm like what did you know there was did you know there was a charge in western no no western penitentiary right so i didn't he didn't he didn't know that he can't give a 15 to 30 month sentence in an immediate parole. You can't do that.

You have to see the parole board. Anything over a year, you have to see the parole board. So the judge can't just say, all right, but you're automatically. So he didn't know that. So instead of just letting it go,

he brings me back the next day, gives me nine to 18 months, maxes it out. I don't know if he did this on purpose or not. No probation, no fines, no cost, nothing. It was only four people in the courtroom.

Me, him, my lawyer, and the person type him. he's really going way out of his way. Oh my God. I was like, you know, I wrote him a letter later when I was clean for years and like tell him like, my kids wouldn't have a father at all if it wasn't for you.

And I know like, I told him like, I know you probably get jaded because you do this for people and it doesn't work out. But like it worked out for me, you know. That's nice. So. Yeah.

So. And then the other thing, which was crazy is Butler, the whole time maintained a $100 bond on my cakes because whenever I got a rain, They're like, he got seven detainers, like just whatever, $100 or whatever it was. It was like a low bond. But they never adjusted anything. So whenever a non-house closed everything out, all I have is a $100 bond in Butler.

Keeping you in jail. Keeping me in jail. Okay. So I'm like, oh, my God, I can get out before sentencing, right? I got like two is like exactly two months. So they transfer me up there. I have arranged already. And this is when Big Earl told me about my dad.

I go up there and I'm waiting for her to bomb me. out and I was on the same unit with Big Earl. But she pays the bond at night and then they call me, have me get changed. And then the bonds, I can hear him. He's like, I can't do this bond right now. He's like, this is a clerk of court's bond. I have to wait until the morning.

Like, how the fuck didn't you know that anyway? But I don't believe it. I'm like, he's lying. You know, he's just saying that, not are going to go. Apparently it was the truth because the next day, the next morning, he come, brought me out. Yeah. it. And the girl that I had was working, so she couldn't come get me. I end up leaving with this

dude from Butler. I guess he, he was like, white dude, he's so dope. Him and his girl both got arrested coming back from Philly, coming into Butler and got rested with a bunch of dope. But he was like real desperate. It was real sick, you know. So he ended up, we were sitting there getting processed for like an hour. So we're talking the whole time. We get out first. His girlfriend wasn't out yet, but he's like, I need to get some dope, like, you know. And, uh, he's, he's like, I need to get some dope, like, you know and uh his connect was in philly and he was sick as fuck he so he ended up wanting like i don't know 12 bricks which is like that's a lot of dope but i end up making three grand off it like i didn't even have to burn them or anything you know like normally i would have just burn them but it was

like much easier to just do it make three grand so then now i'm out with two months i start now i took a bundle out of his dope i started doing it right and then i'm like i can't do this i'm gonna go right to jail like I'm going to start I'm going to before I even get sentenced so I went to rehab while I was in that 60 days like in the beginning of it right which is like those days are precious but like I knew I had to I went did like 10 days in rehab got myself straight got back out partied a little bit drank and stuff leading up to my sentencing right but didn't do any dope and then the day before I actually saved the dope I had I had like six bags left or whatever the only time in my life I've ever saved though I normally can't save it till the morning

You know, like I'll try. I'll know I need something for the morning, but it's like I'll do it the night before. Like everyone does. You know, you can't help it. But I saved that to take into jail with me and to do, I'm going to do some on the way upper. So that way I wouldn't have a habit. So I load up, like, you know, up my ass with all this. Yeah.

It wasn't fun. It was my first time doing it. Yeah. The old prison purse. Wouldn't be the last time. But, you know, I wasn't, I had to learn, like, either. really bust it down and make it tight, you know, because, you know, you can't fit that much upper. But I end up getting a lot in there.

I got, like, some Xanax, dope, a bunch of bud, a bunch of, you know, tobacco, you know, but it lasted like four days. Two cell phones, a charger. No, none of that. No. No, but, yeah, so they end up beating the shit out of me. Why? Oh, Butler County.

Them guards up here. They're all just big white dudes, you know. And they, like, I love the Butler County inmates because they'll fight, too. then white dudes up there will just rumble. They rumble each other. They love it. But they knew I brought something in, right? How?

People tell. You know, he's like, there's not, there's no cigarettes or anything around. And then you come and turn yourself in for a four-year sentence. And there's everywhere. Now people, you know. Right. So, but I never would keep it with me. I would pay someone else to keep it or whatever.

Right. So they come grab me, make me sit on a bucket until I have to poop, right? Right. Because they think I have it up there. So I poop There's nothing in there They put me back in Like an hour after they put me back in

They were smart Because they knew I was gonna get it You know and do something else with it And they ended up getting I don't know if they had someone Towing on me on the block Like you know whatever But they grabbed me when I had it

But it wasn't anything illegal at that point All the all the drugs were going It was just tobacco Right lighter or whatever So it's just contraband They beat the shit out of me And my brother's in the jail at this time Because he's waiting to go upstate

You know His sentencing just happened so he can hear them they took me like Butler was like old sliding you know bars and everything they took me

they beat the shit out of me so bad I couldn't walk or anything they took me down to this dungeon it was like there was two cells there was no beds it was just a brazed metal slab and then outside there's like the bars and then there's a stool with a radio and they only play country music

and there's like five country songs I like but they weren't playing no No, no, no. Even if they did, this is like 24 hours a day, country. It's like, I already went. So, like, please, like, just, I would, I would literally beg them, like, change the station. They're like, no, motherfucker. We ain't, no, be happy you're even listening to them. I'm like, no, no radio's better. Right. You know, so they played the same shit over and over. So anyway, I end up, you know, I get through it. They really did fuck me up, though. Them guards are fucked up. It's a different jail now, but, so then from there, I go to Western,

Western Penitentiary. Get quarantine, which is like a week. It's my first experience there. It was like rats and shit. Like the quarantine cells are like this big, literally. You know, it's like you could touch every wall. And the rats would jump on you. If you were on the riverside, there would be these rats and they would get on you,

even if you didn't have no food in there because you didn't get that much food. You weren't saving food. And they would eat your tobacco, you know, because like the first in your diner, people were giving you cigarettes because you haven't smoked or whatever. but uh so i was down in a freak a week then with the camp hill to get my number that's where you get classified at right state so i had an ft nine three three one number so then after i'm at camp hill was the worst too it's just so terrible but uh you're hoping to get a jail close to you you're hoping to get a minimum or a medium you know close to your family yes yes yes um i never

even considered that they might send me to greaterford right mm-hmm all i I'd ever heard about Grady for I knew it was by Philly I knew it was a max he had a death row there and I knew it was like supposedly one of the worst or the worst so when you go the way you find out is you go to call the property and then you see your box and it has three letters on it whatever letters they are yeah respond to whatever jail you're going to so they don't even tell you you know you just have to look for them letters you know because they don't want you to have someone fucking yeah they think somebody's gonna fucking they think on the bus or on the van on the way there they're gonna you're gonna have it yeah yeah they broke him out yeah no one's doing

that for me i can promise you no one loves me that much a helicopter come down and attack a big magnet to the van and lift it up and yeah take it out like what do you who do you think i am bro yeah yeah believe me no one would do that no one would even like fucking bail me out how to chop up yeah right so anyway i get up so i i was terrified honestly just like why no it's because of all the violence Like I didn't hurt anybody, but every robbery is violent in nature. It's a violent crime. So they end up sending me to Gritford. I get up there and it's just chaos immediately.

It's just like I remember they're classifying you. They're talking to you. And they ask me, this is your first time ever in prison? And I'm like, yeah. And they're like, they're talking to each other and they're like, well, we're not going to send you to deep lock then. you know and then we'll and then ladies like yeah we'll send them over to the new side or whatever and then they're looking they're like oh there's no cells on the new side he can go to d block i'm like what do you tell you just said i couldn't go to d block you know and and everyone there's

telling me like no you're good bro you're good that's just they're gonna say that no matter what they don't want to hear any shit yeah i walk on the d block and it was like nothing i've ever seen before it's like the the the the cells or the tears there it's two rows to high. Like Western would be like eight rows, you know, but not as long. No, or near as long. These, it would, it would be like a hundred yards of just one, two, and then it would be a guard bubble. Right. Big guard bubble where all the guards go, really where they stay. They don't walk around too much. And then another one of those. Now, the back of that second one is like Harlem in the fucking 20s. It's like you don't go back there unless, you know, you're supposed to be back there.

Right. And you can handle being back there. And I didn't know. nothing about that. No, I was in the first part, though, thankfully. So, because I, I didn't know anybody there, nobody. Like, I have a bunch of friends that are in pretty, you know, but just none of them go to Graterford. I ended up, it would be, it was the best thing going to that jail, honestly, because anywhere close to home, like, I cannot be in anything outside. You know, when I'm doing that time, like, I want to be in the jail. That's all I live in. Like, I'm, you know, like, I don't want to know what's going on in Hollywood. I don't, everything's dead to me. It doesn't exist, you know?

So right away I got on, or I could walk on D block though. You ever see the beginning and lean on me? Yeah. Welcome to the jungle. And there's like people hanging on shit and smoking crack. And like, that's what it was when I walked on. It was like unbelievable. No exaggeration.

I didn't see no one spray paint in the walls. But like I wouldn't have been surprised. It would have fit right in. Well, you discovered it. At first I was thinking the beginning of Shawshank where they just just got the row after row. Oh, no. Them guards would never disrespect you like that there, ever.

I've never seen a guard talk to anyone bad there because them fruit of Islam dude or F-O-Y dudes. I was there maybe two weeks whenever they threatened or they said they were going to take out our movies, right? Because every state, PA state would have their own prison like movie channel. And then they would give me, you'd have our movies when they come out. So, and now Graterford has. like around 4,000 inmates, right, in the jail, up to 4,000.

It is 95% African-American. It was like 90% African-American, like 8% Puerto Rican. And then there's like a mixture of white chalters and some Asians and whatever. Right. Not many white dudes from Pittsburgh there at all. It was like a few of us that, you know, could handle themselves and then, you know, so I just grouped up with them. But they threatened to take these movies.

They said, they gave us a deadline. They sent a thing I was saying, like, it's programmatically, you know, DOC's taking out all our movies. Now, there's so many lifers in there, like so many. That's like they're never going to see it today again is basically what you're telling them. Because all the porn's been removed, you know. So, and they would roll out like this over anything that was significant. Yeah.

Hunger strike. Everyone in the jail needs to participate unless you have like a medical thing. You know what I mean? And they would send the word out. And it's like, I'm not, I'm doing whatever you tell me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I'm new.

I'm not. And the first day when I go to go to my cell assignment, I bring my card in. And they send me up to second tier. And it was a homosexual white dude, like a flamboyant. Like he was the bottom or whatever. You know what I mean? And I don't care. But it's like I'm not going to be in that cell because, you know.

Yeah, yeah. Then you get, you get looked at that way. Now you're associated. with this guy and everybody thinks that you're and i actually was cool with with some of the you know they called them cissies or whatever yeah yeah i was cool with with some of them yeah punk yeah but they would get married up there they would marry dudes yeah they'd have full blown weddings in new york yeah yeah like bales and their hand yeah dudes fighting to the death over over other guys yeah oh we we they had uh like carry they would have like karaoke night and um

they would have talent contests and these guys guys would get up and sing karaoke like like drag queen i mean or do full-blown uh michael jackson with the moon walking the whole thing yeah so that i i wouldn't lock up you know just because like i'm not starting like this yeah yeah this is not going to be good i got to be here for four more year wait was it four yeah yeah yeah yeah three and a half to seven yeah yeah so they're like well you're going to the hole you know if you don't lock up you're going to the hole so i'm like all right take me to the hole luckily there was um a black dude named jihad same situation he just got there on a violation new case or whatever and they were

trying to put him in with a black dude that was gay and he's like bro i'm not racist i got my own money you just want to move in together moved right in with him was in there the whole time until i had to leave that unit to go to jericho and outside but like they don't put they don't mix the races up there right you have to request it and you have to write it up like saying i'm i'm okay with you know so being him got in together. It was like I had I had a couple fights up there but they weren't anything crazy. Nothing else was connected to it. One guy touched my foot one time, right? Because I would never wear like sandals or anything. Like I always wore boots. You know what I mean? But dude would come in to talk to jihad or whatever. This dude was huge. Like I would see him lifting. His name was

Cleve. He was a fucking monster, right? And I'd start talking to him getting cool, but I don't know what he's there for one on the bottom. But he's there for like, for murder, whatever. And he touched my foot one time. I was on the top bunk. He touched my foot. He was like, you got cute feet. Oh, no.

What are you going to do in that situation? Yeah, yeah. So me, I'm probably not going to fight, but I'm probably going to be going to be going to start fucking yelling at at least throw a fucking scene. So I was shocked, dude. I was like, I'm shocked that he would do that in the other guy's cell. Yeah.

Because it's disrespectful to him. But jahawah would not say anything. I'm like, we talked. talked about it after but like he did that and I was like I sat up real quick because I you know he would have murdered me yeah murdered me but you're gonna murder me yeah you're not gonna you're not I'm not gonna yeah we're not we're not swapping spit and walking the track no I'm not afraid of death like that you know you're just gonna kill me so I'm like don't ever touch me do don't ever fucking touch me and then he was like he didn't get aggressive or anything he was like oh

I'm sorry bro I'm sorry bro but I find out later he's a boo he's a boo he's a boo band. Yeah, yeah. You know, most of the people up there weren't getting, they were getting fucking. They wanted to get fun.

Everybody always asked that about prison. But there was true. Yeah, there was a few dudes that you would, you would hear like they, they get their eye on someone

and they're going to go until they, they get that person. Yeah, yeah. That is funny because I've never, I, out of the medium and the low,

like I, I'd never seen that. You hear about it, but you mostly hear about it in state prison. Right. You've got, you've got violent guys

that are also sadistic. Yes. They have real problem, mental problems. They would get the guard to move the dude in the cell without their permission. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? They would, like, whether they're cool with them or they'd pay them or something. Now, you're just one day you pack your shit up.

Where am I going? Yeah. No, I'm not. Because you're either going to go to the hole. Yeah, I'll go to the shoe. Exactly. So after I said that, he was like, oh, my, my bad, bro. And Jahal was like, don't ever fucking come in here.

And then he told me after, he was like, I can't, you know, I wasn't going to say nothing until you, you know, until you said something. You got to stick up for yourself, but, you know, because they were all Muslims. Yeah. You know what I mean? So he was like, you know, fucked up about that. Yeah, I don't think the Muslims, the other Muslims would be okay with it either. No, no. He's just trying.

And that's like one of them stereotypes. Like I got so cool with jihad and a couple of other dudes in there. Yeah. And then I just dug in. I started writing a lot. That's where I really got into writing, where I really like started forming some of my stuff. And on the boxing team, now there wasn't the official boxing team up there. Like when Bernard Hopkins was there, that's where he went, did his time.

where boxing changed his life they took all the intermural boxing out so you couldn't go to other other jails and box but they still had an unofficial boxing team that like the inmates would run because there was dudes there that were fucking amazing like they would have been real champions probably three times over but they were a lookout on a murder for someone when they were 17 and they're never getting out you know what I mean so I got into that in the writing um working out you know like heavy and then I would play poker I was really good at poker you know like i learned real fast i can support myself doing that um got to jericho because i i was mandated to do it pvtc it's fucking ridiculous the most ridiculous it's supposed to be like a program

where you're like uh holding people accountable you know tuck in your shirt matt yeah yeah i see matt without his shirt tucked in yeah yeah yeah it's it's art out it's the art out program you have like an encounter group where you're sitting there with someone that's a murderer and you're going like hey dude like uh you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you do you didn't wash your utensils right the other day yeah yeah yeah no thank you yeah yeah you would shut the water off right you brush your teeth because it's better for the environment shows it you're selfish you don't care about the other people these dudes would get caught up in it like these gangster dudes yeah yeah like they they would go in and i would tell everyone just write

your boys up right make an agreement we're gonna write each other up you know they would one person would write them up that i'm gonna get that my forget it was just be yeah so i ended up doing that. I got, um, finished that and then applied for pre-release. Now, you can't get pre-release with a violent crime now. I was one of the last people to get it. The person, the, the counselor wouldn't even put me in for it. I had to go to a different counselor and ask them to because he was like, you're not going to get it. And I'm like, man, just put the fucking papers in. Right. Ended up getting it. So as soon as I got it, they moved me outside. Outside Graterford is a farm. So it's all, uh, like, uh,

It's huge, but the inmates, you know, that are outside to have pre-release status working. A lot of them are child molesters because they can't get home plans. Right. They're already paroled, but no, there's nowhere they can live that's acceptable. Yeah. So they're just waiting sitting there, maxing out their sentence because there's no beds in halfway houses. But would work in the farm. Yeah.

Yeah, we all would work on the farm. I used to drive a tractor by myself, like me and like four or five other guys, we would wear a gray's. Right. And like there's a brown shirt dude that's like a regular worker type dude. That's your boss or whatever. and I guess he was a guard at some point. But we had back hose. We would fucking, you know, I learned how to do all that shit there.

I learned how, that was the first piece I drove. They put me on the tractor after this one dude left. I'm like, I don't know how to fucking drive. We used to ride it into the jail, get all the compost, put it on, and then we have to go through the gate, and they have to stick things through all of it, make sure no one was hiding in it. And then we take it out and make compost of it.

But we had a little setup that, like we would spend a lot of our time at during the day. It was like no brown shirt there. We would grow all our own vegetables. And then like the one dude was from Philly. So we had people bringing them in stuff and, you know, just throwing it in the woods. And then we, you know, he'd spend three days looking for it. But he'd find it, you know what I mean? And then, yeah, it wasn't bad.

But I would never do drugs because I didn't. I was worried always about getting a urine test. You know what I mean? So I never had a problem saying no when I was in there. But I ended up making pre-release. They closed Western Penitentiary, but they made it a pre-release. center right so i got sent there and that i got i got put there with some guys that i didn't know but that um knew a lot of people from my neighborhood long story short i end up staying clean for

the next couple years but i started selling drugs and i made a ridiculous amount of money in like a year right just i i had because this dude i was in there way i didn't know it but everyone was like trying to get at him because he was you know he'd just come back from upstate he got it was like his first time ever getting caught. But he was like a real, you know, real big time dude. You know, I didn't know, I just got cold with him. Yeah. So my one friend, Joey, the first two I did dope with, he was just selling crazy amounts

of Coke. And he asked me for some reason, like, did you find any hookups up there? Because he said he was just getting shit and it was hard to make it stretch. So I started a long story short, started getting it for him. And I would make $2,500 every time. So he would get, if he would get nine, I would charge $95. I would pay nine. So I'd make $500 there.

And then my dude would bring me $11 instead of nine. So instead of bringing, you know, he would make the original nine ounces into 11. We were just putting cut on it. Yeah. And then I would give Joey the nine. I would still have two extra. I would sell them for a thousand apiece. I would have it for 20 minutes.

I'd already have it arranged to sell the two. Right. So making $2,500. Then we started doing 18 at a time. I'm making like $5 grand. Just stack money up. you know crazy and then joey got busted uh he was he was just doing too much too much activity he got busted after like a year and then um you know i was worried he never told on me he did his time his family

was caught up in it and everything he had every reason to but he didn't so i quit though and i ended up selling him to connect but he could never get a deal worked out or whatever after that but i was out of it but not getting high but you can't do that stuff and like it's not fuck with you whenever you're a drug addict you know like you're selling all that drug you know what mean so eventually i'm not working because now money means nothing to me i've just made all this money so easily and go to a super bowl or like i had a thousand pair of shoes i've paid for my mom's wedding i'm just doing money meant nothing i couldn't go work a job and make $20 you know right so what kind of money are you making a month at this point though what's it bringing it we were doing 20 000 a month or 10

thousand a month or so we were doing we would do like at 18 a week so that would be five grand right right so that's what's 20 grand a month but then we started after a while if my dude would do it we would do a whole one he just wouldn't do a whole one at once he would only he'd break it up but that's that you know what's that 20 grand and one thing right there do so i had a veto sassussoon thing box three means a lot oh yeah dude i had this vdaal sassusun box and my my mind was so little i was so young and immature, even though I was 27, I didn't know what I could even do with this money. You know what I mean? I just had, I wasn't thinking big at all. You know, I'm thinking like, I could buy anything I want. And the biggest thing I want is a car. You know what I mean? I should have been buying property.

It didn't matter because I would have lost it all later when I started using anyway. But right. Yeah, everything turns into heroin coupons. You know what I mean? Like, for real, dude. It's like, oh, you spend 10 years like getting this stuff. Like, oh, this pair of Jordans. It's like, there's only 200 of them. It's not. Nothing but a hair coupon whenever you've whenever you relapse you're you have no problem like You know what you can give me for you know oh I've done that so yeah yeah yeah Coupons yeah dope oh man I've done that so many times it's so demoralizing I'll never do that again Like I'll I have kids right I don't I don't join you seem like you enjoy life yeah

I've gotten to a place I've gotten to a place where I don't enjoy life anymore why I don't know man I don't know like I I'm just like I never feel interesting. You know what I mean? Like a life's so good, though. I've always felt even when my life was bad, I enjoyed living it. Right. If it wasn't for my kids, like if you took my kids away and I, and my life was as it is, my life is great right now. Yeah. I would probably get myself. Honestly, it's probably, I've never told anybody this. Yeah, that's horrible. But that's just, I don't know what happened to me. Like, well, you're, you're, maybe you're, uh, what are the synapses? Yeah. Or burn out and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

I've been clean for a while, though, you know. Because I think, Jess, my wife's all ice. And ice is horrible. It takes years. Matter of fact, she even takes pleasure and stuff. Right. She even takes medication that supposedly is good to try and rebuild or heal that, like, not medicine from the doctor. She takes all kinds of like, oh, this is fish scales.

What are you doing? Don't give me any more fish skills. Right, right, right. No, it's good for your, whatever. Stop, stop, stop. but yeah she because you know and even in it's funny even in the half-fast life when I first met her I noticed she's very

it's like if here's normal for somebody she's slight as far as enthusiasm right right right she seems slightly below that you're definitely right though about the drug thing that drug in particular yeah yeah that'll change for her you know oh it's been it's been you know what years right so she's been it's been is it 10 years now for her Okay.

Maybe. No, because she did four, four years in prison. Yeah. She's probably, if she is, it's probably run up on 10 years. Yeah. But yeah, it's funny because like I have, when you think about, like, if you, if I talk to normal people. Right. That have things that they do.

Like they have families, right? Like you've got your kids. So you have interest in your kids. Sean, Sean G. Right. Totally into his. son doing all the sports and you know like his whole life is helping support his his son's uh i want to say baseball right baseball yeah and you have friends that you know they all have interest um Wade

Wade's got a whole thing on doing um well one he's got his podcast but he also loves the mob stuff right right right there's the mom I think the problem WWE yeah yeah I was a I was a dad full time yeah right so I had my you know my daughter my daughter my daughter my daughter mother has been clean for like 15 years. We've never been together after, you know, we were like running partners. Yeah. But my son's mother, we lived together for seven years and my daughter was always there. So I was a dad every day, daily on a daily basis for years.

And then it just stopped. And then it's like a weekend dad or whatever. Yeah. But now my kids are teenagers. I have fucking great kids. Yeah. Really great, well-adjusted kids. But, you know, like they don't need much for me.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And I, I, I, and what else sports? Right. Some people get interested in sport. Right. No, no sports. No, I, I, I'm interested, like writing, you know, I definitely do a lot of writing,

but I'm also, I get carried away out, like sports cards. I probably spent over 200 grand on sports cards in the last two years. Right. And it does something for me in the moment. Yeah. But now I have all these sports cards I got to sell to, like, get the money back. You know, it's, it's crazy, dude. Like, I get addicted to things.

But, like, the last few years have just been different because, you know, I was in a bunch of relationships, you know, never really great ones, you know, but like my last one, I at least, like, had a friendship thing where I, you know, it could have worked if I would have been different and her, same with her, but like, uh, I, I just can't find anything that's meaningful to me, you know, and I feel like I'm broken like that. You know what I mean? Find something. Yeah. I feel like like stakes mean nothing. Yeah. But to everyone else, they mean a lot. Like when I lost my job as a program manager and really left, like, I didn't have to lose it, but like I'd built that up for years.

Like from being clean, I started working in shelter as just a homeless, in a homeless shelter, one of them. And then I built that up and running that shelter. Then I was running all the shelters in Pittsburgh and McKeesport. Then I was running all the shelters plus running four other programs, right? So at a point where when I resigned, they cut that position in half, right? Because I was doing so much. but none of it meant shit to me.

You know, I have, like, some pride that I could do that, you know, and I could, like, but just not, I don't know. I don't know. And I don't, like, go around talking about it. I go to NA meetings and stuff. I talk about a lot of stuff in there, but I just can't be real about, like, how I feel about life because it ain't right. My life should be great right now.

You know, I should feel great about it. And I'm never going to do nothing to myself because of my kids. Like, I never would, never in a million years. but like you know who wants to like live like that you know and it's like I'm not miserable to be around I'll never put it on other people right so no one would know it but it's just at the end of the day I go home sometimes and it's just like nothing around this around me means anything I'm gonna get a dog maybe that'll help maybe I had a dog for a long time I love my dog you know but just uh and I'm gonna do are you looking for something to make but you it seems because you know you yeah you got to be

okay with you right yeah definitely well Well, I thought I was a bad person forever. Like inherently a bad person. You probably went through this too. Oh, of course. Still not positive about it. Right. Yeah, because of some of your, just like your, some of my instincts right away is just like

not always to do the right thing. I can't go with the first instinct. Right. I got to step back and go. Right. I've accepted. I've accepted. I've accepted that I'm not a terrible person.

I think I am a bad person on some levels. But I'm also like, I, I can control. being a good person and it isn't hard for me to be a good person most of the time. That's important. It's funny because I'm more concerned about doing the right thing. But doing the right thing doesn't necessarily mean that it's in my heart to do the right thing. It's like you wanted to be though. I do. Well, so if I see garbage on the ground and I'm walking, it's like, yeah, fuck. And I'll pick it up and I'm piss. I got to pick this garbage up. I got to go throw it in this. I got to walk it out of the block before there's a little garbage, little doggy garbage can.

Right. Throw it here. These motherfuckers. But the truth is that most people, I think that they just walk by. They feel like they're good people. Well, no, I'm a good person, but you walk by the garbage. I picked the garbage up. I bitch and moan the whole time.

I only do it because I think that's what a good person would do. Right, right. But in my heart, I want to walk by. But I think that is the real, that's the real, that's the reality of it. Whereas other people aren't doing it, but they're thinking I'm a good person because I do all this other stuff. Like I think acknowledging that you don't want to do it and it's not inherently, but doing it is what probably makes you a good person. Because you care about it. I think I'm just, listen, some chick was the other day I went to go, went and drove somewhere.

This is when Jess was going. I had the vehicle. Yeah. Because we share a vehicle. Well, we don't share it. It's her vehicle. I drive it when she's gone. So I drove somewhere.

Oh, I think it was to work out. worked out and there was a car on the side of the road did i tell you this there was this chick i didn't know it was a chick it was just some car with the blinkers on i could tell the tire was fucked up right and so i drove i go all the way to the gym i go to the gym come back and it's not like i'm doing a fucking amazing routine right right right right 30 minutes it's the most pathetic it's a 30 minutes can do a lot yeah jumping the car come back as i come back i see the vehicle still there and somebody's inside it i just can't see who so i turn around i go back i pull up get out she opens the door, leans out.

I said, hey, I said, do you need someone to change the tie? She says, no, no, no. She said, roadside's coming. They're already stopping. She's, they're going to be here, and they'll be here in five minutes. Don't even worry about it. And I went, okay, cool. Listen, I was like, thank God.

I don't have to change this. Fucking chick's tire. Motherfucker. Does it matter to you what the girl looks like? That matters to me. No, I wish it didn't. For real. This is so fucking chick.

Yeah. I got my car, but I got my car and I left. And, but I was like, you know, I stopped because I thought, That's what a decent person does, but I don't want to change that tire. I don't want to do, I'm just stopping because I'm thinking, fuck it. Then I'm going to be sitting at home thinking what, I'll, that, you know, that what I should have done the right thing.

I should have this. But the truth is I don't want to do it. But in my heart to do that. I don't want to stop. That's where I'm at. I'm at the same place where you were being, being a good person matters to me, right? Well, trying to do the right thing. I would like to be a good person.

I'm really, at this point, I'm just trying to do the right thing. Right. And, but being a good person, I don't know if that's really going to happen. Yeah. But I think trying to do the, I think. The muscle memory of it, I think, makes you a good person. Yeah, I'm just trying to do the right thing. It's like, look, like, if there was, if there was money on the table.

Right. I got to. I need to, I'd like to walk away with that money. Yeah. But what's the right thing to do? Right. And I think, okay, the right thing to do is you call somebody, you say, hey, there was money on the table. There was a wallet.

Right. Here's the wallet. I found it over there. I'm really thinking, fuck. There was four grand in that fucking wall that I'd leave. Fuck that, dude. That's his fucking problem. That action is making you in a good person.

I don't know. I still want that. I kept myself just as much for laying in bed at night. Right. And I take it the four grand. Listen, remember the iPhone? Yeah. Oh, so pissed about this, bro.

I was jogging. Yeah. So when I used, this is how long ago this was. Actually, I don't know if I remember this. Oh, I was jogging, bro. Oh, no, this is before. This was before. So I had, when I got out of federal prison,

and we'll go right back to you. No, everybody in the comment that says, Matt, don't talk about it. Let your guests go. No, let your guests talk.

Fuck off. Yeah, shut off. So, but this is, so I, I, the first year,

I had to see, well, this is how bad this goes. Because I haven't told this story in a long time. Yeah, please. So this is, you'll find this funny.

Get out of the halfway house. Part of what my judge fucking stuck me with was I had to take a, a criminal thinking course. Oh. So my first probation officer's, okay, you understand you have to take this mental health course, blah, blah, blah. I was like, what? The most useless course in the world.

Well, I wouldn't know. I never took it. I was like, I was like, what? I was like, no, no, no, I took it. She was, first of all, she said, you didn't pass RDAF. She's like, secondly, she's like, I saw you entered it twice. You don't take, you didn't finish. There's no certificate in here.

Did you finish? And I was like, no, but she's like, whatever. She's like, it doesn't matter anyway. You got to take the cat. It's part of your judgment commitment. So she has, you got to go to the psychiatrist. And I was like, well, first they tried to make me pay for it. I said, well, I don't have any money.

I'm not paying for it. Right. And she's like, oh, no, you are going to pay for it. And I said, I said, fine, I said violate. But keep mind. They can do that. They can make you pay for a psychiatrist. Well, I'm just out of the halfway house.

I have no money. I'm living in this chick's spare room. So I'm ready to go back. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I could give a shit. Yeah, it's not working that fast. Yeah.

Like, now's the time to go back. Right. Because I'm still thinking maybe if I go back, they'll take me off probation. not realizing that if you owe money, they don't. Right, right, right. So I was like, oh, well, then you'll have to violate me. She's like, all right, well, I'll see if I can pay for it. We can pay for it.

I said, yeah, all right. I said, well, you're going to have to figure that out. They've figured it out before, I'm sure. So I go, I meet with the psychiatrist. We have a conversation. We do a little quick conversation. First of all, I thought I just had to fill out some paperwork. I filled out the paperwork.

I said, okay, well, so what is it? It's Tuesdays and Thursdays. Okay, fine. And she's like, no, no, no, we have to have a session now. Oh, it's like, what? She's like, we have to have a session. I was like, all right. So I sit down.

I'm like, what's up? So we have this whole conversation, but this is the part that I think where it went wrong. Where we're talking. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm painting. I'm doing this. I'm doing this. I'm doing this. I'm having a conversation.

I work for my buddy's gym. But I'm also painting painting, I'm going through the whole motions. So you have a plan? Yeah, I got a plan. I plan on bust my ass. I'm bust my ass for the next year. see if I put something together. She says, well, what if something, what if it's nothing?

And I've said this to, this is, if somebody on here has heard me say, hey, you said you said that when you were in jail. I've said this to multiple people going, this is just one more. I said, this is my probation officer. And I said, yeah, yeah, I'm going to bust my ass for the next year. Hopefully I can put something together. And, you know, I'm also writing books. I'm doing this. I'm doing that.

I'm going to try and get them all on the internet and trying to self-pullish them. And so we're talking. And she says, okay, you keep saying the next year, like, what if it takes longer than a year? I said, if in a year from now, I said, I'm still busting my ass and I can't pay my fucking bills. And she's like, yeah, I said, I'm going to commit a massive, massive fraud. I'm going to leave the United States. I said, because that's where I fucked up last time. I said, that's where you fucked.

And I said, I'm out of here. I said, because I'm not going to fucking struggle the rest of my fucking life. And I just looked at her and she went, I said, are we, are we done? Because it had been almost an hour. And I was like, are we done? And because she's done, she did the whole thing. Do you feel bad about your crime? No.

Right. Well, why do you think that is? I said, because I'm definitely on the psychopathic scale or sociopathic scale. And it's the banking industry. Yeah, and I'm like, I can give a fuck. And she's like, okay. She's making lots of notes. So then I get up and I leave.

And when I get back home, the next morning, it was later in the day. So the next morning I checked my email. And there was an email from my probation officer. She says, listen, good news. You don't have to, you don't have to go to the Tuesday and Thursday meetings. And I was like, okay, cool. Because the Tuesday, by the way, the Tuesday and Thursday meetings, it was a booklet. It was just a book you had to pass.

Okay, okay. So once you were done, it was like a, it was like 16 weeks. Right. There's just like three months and I'm done. So she says, bad news is you'll be going to, you'll be going to the psychiatrist with her for the duration of your probation or until she's, you know, determines that you have done the equivalent of the class. And by the way, and going with her, I had to go through the whole book with her one-on-one. She's like one-on-one until or she was like all the way through till she decides it or till

you're off probation in five years. Oh, that's crazy. And I would never forget the email I sent her back. I said, how bad did I fuck up? I said that I'm now going to have to go to this woman one-on-one. Right. And I sent it back to her. She never responded.

She was just like. You got a schedule. Like she's, she's going to drag out on it. You know that. Well, here's what happens. COVID happened.

Oh, okay. Yeah. But it was. It was. Yeah. Thank God for COVID. So,

but it was over a year. Right. We're going through the book one on one. Yeah. And I'm pissed that I'm here. I was, when I got out the first year or two, I was very,

you know, everybody said I was aggressive. I was assertive. I was aggressive to me means it could be, I'm not going to be violent. Right. But yeah, am I upset?

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm upset. I'm talking like this all the right okay so what's going on right short short I got to go I get shit to do I'm broke I have to work 80 hours a week I need to put something together here I'm broke yeah like I don't have time to fuck around so we're going on so I'm going to these class these class my sessions and she was constantly saying like we were going through the book whatever chapter by chapter and I'm really honestly not even filling this book out like I guess she's like I can do these three chatt I'm like okay um I'm coming back it's half ass she's like Mr. Cox you really really Can you please? I'm like, I give a feeling I'm never getting out of this. Right.

So anyway, the point is, is that one of the exercises was you need to do self, start doing selfless acts. And I'm like, interesting. I'm like, oh,

wait a minute now. I said the other day, I did this. Yeah. I did this. You know, I'm telling, uh,

and she's like, look, I need you to do 10 selfless acts. And I need you to list them and name what they are. So I'm like, okay. Like, well,

I'm never getting out of this. I'm never going to, what ends up happening is, I was jogging every morning. That was clearly 15 pounds ago. So I'm jogging every morning. One day I'm jogging. And as I'm jogging, I'm coming.

I did the whole fucking thing, like whatever it is, a mile or two. And there's a lot of walking. I'm not going to say I jogged the whole time. There's a lot of walking. That's exercise too, though. So I see a fucking iPhone. This is a brand new iPhone. Yeah, which is $1,300 or $800.

Right. And I looked in and I, and I said, see it and I pick it up and I look around. Someone get killed for that in jail. Well, I just said they're looking around and I call my friend Stacy and I said, hey, I just found an iPhone. Like, what do I do? I can't turn it on.

Right, right. And she's like, she's like, okay, well, don't worry. Keep it. She said, somebody will call you. When they figure it out, they'll call you. You can return it. Right. And I'm like, you know, returning it.

That's novel. Yeah. Okay. That would count as a selfless thing. So I'm jogging. I jog all the way back to the, the rooming house that I'm staying at. And I'm like a block or two away. I get there.

I'm blocker to a way and the phone rings. I pick it up, boom, hit the thing. And I go, hello? And she goes, hi, I lost an iPhone. I said, I found an iPhone. And she's like, oh, my gosh, can you bring it to me? Where are you? And I go, I'm on the name the street.

She's like, okay, I'm on such and such. street and such and such. And I'm thinking, that's like a mile away. I'm like, okay, well, that's a mile away. It's going to take me at least 15, 20 minutes. I got to jog. I got to get at a selfless port. Right. And I'm like, can you meet me? Okay. So can you come here? She's like, oh, I really can't. Oh my goodness. She's just, is there any way, I really don't, I don't know where that is. I don't feel, is there any way you can bring it to me? And I thought, so I jog all the way back across the street, past the light, do this, around here. I, I, you know. get there, this chick is, I'm telling you, she looked like she was like a 30 pounds overweight.

She's in a vehicle like a, a Hummer, with another chick. She hops out of the Hummer, walks over and says, and I go, hey, here's your one. She's like, oh my gosh, thanks. Turns around, walks back, jumps in the fucking Hummer, close the door, and drives off in the Hummer. You were in the Hummer. You could have driven the mile. Right. Yeah.

You have a, you know, now, well, granted she didn't have a phone, but if somebody had a phone in that car. But there should have been a parade or something. There should have been a, listen. Yeah. No, I get it. I would have wanted a parade, though. I'm pissed. I'm pissed.

I remember thinking if she offers me like 50 bucks or something for the thing, I thought to myself, I thought I'm not even going to take the money. I'm just going to give her the fucking phone, even though I need the money. Right, right, right. I'm just going to give her the phone and say, no, no, absolutely not. I just want to do the right thing. But that, oh, that's perfect for you. It was the perfect. but I'm supposed to do like fucking 10 of these or five of these or something.

So I went back. I sat down on the couch and she said so. She said, did you do any of the self-less? I said, yeah, I said, let me tell you about my selfless thing. So I tell her the whole thing. Boom, boom, boom. Woman got in the car. Boom, drove away.

I said, didn't barely said thank you. Right. Yeah. It was a bad fast. Oh my gosh. I can't believe that. Thanks. No, yeah.

I need more than that. Yeah. I was like, boom, boom. I go through the whole thing. And I said, I'm not doing that anymore. Right. I said, so I'm done with that. Right.

You had one bad experience. I said, it's enough. Right. I said, I could have fucking sold that thing. I said, my buddy told me he knew a guy that would have given me fucking three or four hundred bucks for the fucking phone. I should have taken the $300. I said, I'm not doing any more selfless things.

Fuck that lady. I'm with you on that. And yeah, yeah. I still do nice. I'm still, I think I do nice. The fact that you're doing it. Matt does nice things. Matt does nice things that people, for people that they don't even know about.

Right. Well, even if you. And he wouldn't bring that up. He wouldn't bring that up. But I'm bringing that up so people don't. As long as other people will say that about you. Like people, people will not say, like, that I'm depressed or, you know what I mean?

Because I'm not going to bring that around to other people. Right. But maybe in some way that is really limiting my relationships or, you know, what I've done is I've talked to my friend about this other day. I think every, every year I get closer to having as little number interactions as possible with still having my life. You know what I mean? Oh, I'm like, you're like, you not want to leave home. Yeah.

And I was the opposite. You heard about me when I was young. When I was young, I couldn't be at home by myself. Oh, yeah. I needed to be out with my friends around people. Now it's like, I don't know, man. No, I don't want to leave. Yeah.

I hear, bro, I don't have a car. Yeah. I told you don't have a car. And it never bothers me. Right, right, right. I have a car now. Right. I haven't left since my, my fucking, no, no, well, I think I went to, I went to Marshalls.

Not Marshalls. It's, uh, Michaels. And bought frames. because I'm reframing all of these old photographs that my mom left me when she died of family members and stuff. But other like that's what I was going to say like I'll get I'll find a project. Right. Yeah. To give yourself me. Yeah. But then it, I exhaust it. Right. And it's out. And it's over. And like even the stuff you said about the poems on TikTok, like that's stuff that I haven't thought about. I haven't. Right. But you could you could. You could. You could get into it. I think I will. I think I will.

I think I will just because like I don't have much ego surrounded with these. But like when I did have them available and they were being consumed on the level that they were. The level of feedback and the level of, there's just something that these, that poems on this stuff do whenever you're reading them, you know, it can't be explained, like the emotion involved. It's very therapeutic. And that's what I did that for a while. I used to work with a therapist and he would use these as ice breakers and groups of recovering

addicts. Right. And he would say they would just, a lot of times, like especially on very hard topics, like, women on the stuff that they have to do and just all that stuff that no one wants to talk about when he started using these as icebreakers in the beginning he's like there's never been anything as effective as like it opens them up immediately makes them emotional with something that isn't attached to them yeah yeah and then they can you know they can give as much as they want about it but it's just something that uh you know i i would like to get it get it out there more right

because i believe in i believe in something like the theory therapeutic value of creative writing about your experiences, which I'm sure you know about. Yeah. Well, you know, and Jess writes, I don't know, I always think of it as poetry, but, you know, I think they say, they call it now like the spoken word. Right, right, right, right. Whatever they're going to call it next month. But so she does that.

She used to write them. And she likes them. I think, and for some reason, I feel like the people, that if it had struggles with addiction or currently struggle with addiction, they, they like them, especially if it's something about addiction. You know, then they get very interested. They probably share it because she's always sharing me stuff like that, especially if it's like it. And it inspires them to write about theirs. Right. Right. She doesn't ever send me anything that she writes anymore because I had no idea that she wrote. Okay. Yeah. People can be embarrassed about it.

Well, yeah. And then you have to understand who you're dating. Right. Yeah. we we dated for a little bit we broke up I stopped talking to her okay because the whole we're gonna remain friends no that's impossible we're not friends like I don't want anything to do with the moment it's up we're done yeah and she's still trying to reach out to me and I can't stop thinking about you yeah good luck with that there's only one mode yeah we're done so she's she sent me a poem and I mocked her like she sent me the yeah I remember it's too there's a thing there's funny. I was, I remember where I was. I was sitting in the airport. I was furious. Yeah. Because like in the, the day before I left, that was my big Herc interview and

soft white underbelly. So in both those, like, I'm, on, I'm agitated. The whole time I'm in California. Building yourself up. I'm irritated. There's homeless people everywhere. I'm disgusted. I'm pissed off. Yeah. I can't, none of the stores are open. And so it's a whole fucking thing going on in my head. And so I, she broke up in there like the day before I left, I'm sitting in the Well, it was probably a couple days before we left. I'm sitting in the airport. I don't have any idea that she writes poetry or anything. I've known her for six months.

Really known her, know her. Right, right, right. And she just broke up with me for no reason. Sitting in the airport and I get this fucking rambling thing about love and commitment and not feeling good enough for someone and going on to this, going on. And it's on and on and on, and she just sends it to me. You didn't think she wrote it either, probably right. No, no, I did kind of, I kind of, because it was clearly about us and how she felt that she wasn't good enough. And I would go on and find someone else and I deserved someone better than her.

And posture syndrome, that type of shit. Well, I'm just looking at it and I'm like, and I went, the fuck are you doing? What is this supposed to be a fucking palm or something? Don't fucking send me. It was fucking horrible. I mean, she's like opening up to me and I'm like. Oh, she was probably fucking. Oh, I'm brutal.

raw about that. Oh, she, so there have been times before where she's been doing something. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like nothing. And I'm like, what do you? She's like nothing. I was just feeling sad about so-and-so dying and I was writing something. What are you writing?

She's like, I'm never letting you read. I never read. I don't blame her. I don't blame her. Just lie or something. Yeah, definitely. But she loves them. Right.

Not just her writing, but she loves other people because of addiction. Anything. Yeah. Listen, probably her. the most favorite bands that she loves is like jelly roll and I don't even think it's jelly roll

it's what he's singing about and it's his story she loves post Malone story right she loves jelly roll story which is what they're giving you whenever they're giving you song correct yeah correct but if there was somebody who was bullshitting if there was somebody who was raised middle class and never had any problems and they were just writing a story about something she wouldn't

it's the fact that what they've been through yeah I tell people don't worry about the structure or is it sign you know yeah because no it's up to you no one will ever read it but it helps you to write it to get it out and to and to get it out in the form that you want to get it out in whether it's super creative and you want to structure something that rhymes or just write you know in journal like a journal form there's something about you know and science has made a lot of connections with writing and and what it does of your brain for the subject matter You know what I mean? Writing in general.

Listen, you ever have somebody, you're fucking furious, and you send them a whole text, and then after you read the text, you're no longer angry, and you just erase the text and don't even send it. I didn't need to send it. I needed to get it out, and now I got it out, and that's gone. And I don't need to say that to you anymore, because it's not even about saying it to you. Right. I was going to say the, yeah. But it's the same thing when people ask me about doing a YouTube video.

Right. Yeah, but they're super self-conscious. And I'm like, what does it matter? Yeah, yeah. Do the video because you just started a channel. Nobody's watching. That's what I said. Yeah, nobody's reading it.

Yeah. And even if you put it out, even if you put your poem out. Right. Just like what we were talking about about, you put it out. If you get an amazing reaction, then you had an amazing impact. Right. If you get no reaction, you still got to do it. You still said you did it.

And four people fucking saw it. Yeah. Well, what do you care? No expectation. Right. Which is what I learned. Right. What are you doing it for?

Yeah. What are you putting it out for? I'll never try to make any money off of it. But I've seen my friends, which I've never would have thought they would have been into that. You know what I mean? That they've been inspired and then they've written something. And I just tell people, don't give a fuck about what it sounds like or just let it come out. You know what I mean?

I think it's important right now, especially with all the trauma associated with the epidemic, with the opioid epidemic. Right. With so many people. It's always going to be something. I mean, since I was in junior high. There's always been some. And there always will be. Yeah.

They will never, you'll never, there will never be an end or to the war on drugs. This life period with the drug addiction and criminal and all that stuff, there's just so many, so much trauma, you know, so much self-inflicted trauma. And then a lot of times trauma coming from outside because you're putting yourself in bad positions, like women, put themselves in terribly vulnerable positions whenever they're using, you know, that they wouldn't normally do. I would be willing to, knowing that I could give up my whole life on a, on a bargain of, or on a gamble, can I get away with this robbery? Because I would think, like, I'm either getting high or I'm going to jail. And either way, I'm set. Well, you know, what's funny is you're thinking I'm getting high or I'm going to jail. But the truth is, if you walk in

the wrong 7-11, that dude sees you come and pull. You may just be going in more. Please. Hey, you know what I'm saying? You don't understand what misery is whenever like you want to die, but you're too much of a coward to do it yourself. Before I had, before I had kids really had no reason to live and I had them later. As miserable, I'm not miserable now, but like as empty as I am, I will never go use drugs

because that's a different type of misery that I can't handle, right? even with kids yeah i will i will go out in a very ugly blaze of glory doing that yeah you know what i mean because i've been close there so many times and it's like if i've already fucked up everything i have going right now and i've had going for however many years and my kids don't look at me the same then all bets are off like i'm i'm gonna fucking you know i used to think like i'm gonna be on the news and everyone's gonna see me and they're gonna know how i died you know what i mean like I'm going to go out and I thought that was like admirable you know or like and really it's not but like I have to find I have to find reasons to live outside of my kids I know that you know

know my son just told me he started smoking wheat right he's 13 right and I've talked to him endlessly about the dangers of smoking right where it leads or he started smoking start smoking but right which I assume he's already been drinking right because it's you know he doesn't live in a city he lives in a you know a country area right but he told me I asked him why would you do that after we've had so many talks and I've told you like where that leads you know and everything how it started with me that young all that stuff and he he said it was about the way he felt because he was like getting bullied and we've been over all this stuff you know and I told him like like bro like you're like saying hi I'm a drug addict because that's what drug addicts do they don't like the way they

feel and the first thing they do rather than try to fix it is to go get a chemical to feel a different way about themselves and they can live with themselves and they you know and if you're doing it now at 13 like it's just not a good precedent I don't think I don't think you know that drug is bad I think it's a good drug honestly but if you're a drug addict it's going to take you you know it's just a stepping stone. And for him to tell me that, it just, like, validated that he just didn't listen to anything.

I said, and I did that, too. Like, people told me, but, like, I really thought he was listening. I really thought he was,

like, internalizing it, you know? And I almost thought, like, he wanted, he was, like,

he was, like, saying it, so I'd be impressed. Right. You know, like, like, it was cool or something. And,

and that's just, like, because he was eager to tell me, you know, and I just didn't understand because I'm so disappointed, you know, And like that is, I'm so fearful of going through this with a kid because I've seen so many people get clean and go through that struggle with their kid.

And it breaks you. And a lot of time the kid passes away because it's Russian roulette now. You know? And I, that like my life can always get worse with that if that starts happening, you know. But like I have to find stuff. When I was talking to him, it was the first time I ever told him. like like i said look i don't i don't enjoy my life you know i'm only here and like doing everything i do because i want to make sure you guys are getting your life together and are good people and are

taken care of you know i was like i damaged myself so badly that i can't even enjoy a good life you know that's how much i've messed my life up i don't know what i i don't feel good when i should i don't feel bad when i should you know and i'm trying to tell him like that's what you're going to do to yourself and and honestly you can't handle it it you know i couldn't handle it i don't know how i made it through you know but like you really can't handle it you didn't even have the abuse i have whenever i was young that kind of like got me you know prepared for some of it just at least desensitized to a degree yes which is horrible and i'm in that conversation i told him like like i don't i don't enjoy my life dude i don't want to be a lot like if

it wasn't for you guys i wouldn't be here i know it was probably wrong to say to him but you know I like I know that's wrong and I have to like I can't just live like that because it's all gonna it's all gonna affect them they're gonna know you know if there's no joy in your life like people I think no they can see there's no fire in you there's no you know so I think I just have to um really like number one I think I've I've graduated from all this stuff all the drug stuff jail stuff and all that but I don't feel like I've ever separated from it wholly like in like change my image you know what I mean because like I have a job or I have a job where like everyone else wears suits and like you know what I mean yeah and I don't do that shit and I feel like well I don't do that because I'm authentic and I you know but I don't want to be the authentic person I was before you know what I mean I want to like I want to you know adapt and change and like you know grow and you know it seems like I'm not you know I'm only willing to do so much you know what I mean and I have to have to definitely like like change

things up and start or you know i don't want to use drugs again man that thankfully that's not the thing i think of you know because like you used to be anything goes wrong that's what you want to do you know right that's the answer that's the answer but once you get at a certain point you realize it's not about that it's not about the chemical it's about why you use that shit and after seeing just so many people die and then like asking yourself why am i here and they're not right well there probably ain't no reason it's probably random yeah but it makes sense to be like well yeah it could have been you yeah i'm gonna live for i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna make my life worth it for them you know um but i feel like i've represented drugs for so long i'm so tired of it you know what i mean

even with like the writing and the poems and all that stuff and you know i think part of part of everything is me like you know graduating away from that in a sense and like i think the things like you were saying with TikTok might be a good idea for me because it gets it out there but it doesn't get my face out there or nothing you know what I mean I have no problem with my name I don't want to stay on my shit which has happened a bunch of times and I've had to deal with that but like I do want I do want to share it all from a distance you know what I mean and try to inspire other people but you know I want to I want to be more than a drug addict right you know and a you know a recovering drug addict or whatever um I don't know man it's like

shit I don't know you I think you get tired you get used to being lonely and that it's like the only way you know how to live you know I used to say I'm getting a plant and I never got it I'd say I'm gonna get a plant then a dog then a girlfriend and and I said I was getting a plant like six months ago and people ask me did you get your plant yet and I didn't it's like I'm a fucking idiot like I can't even get a plant because I can't even get it and kill it and then be like oh it failed it's like I can't even I just won't get it I'll just keep telling everyone I'm going to get it. But I don't know. I, uh, you know, it, it works itself out, man.

Like I said, uh, my kids have saved my life. So I'll be here for them. But, you know, I don't, I don't want to like live like this no more. You know, want to like be someone that, you know, my kids can be proud of. I think they could be proud of me now because I like take care of them, anything they need. But it's like I don't, I'm not inspiring. You know what I mean? I'm not like, you know, I don't.

I don't know. Just I'm not like, probably like most of the other people they see parents, you know, are social and they have. Right. You know, like I have friends and everything, but we're all, we're all old drug addicts. You know what I mean? There's like only, we're all jaded, you know? Like, we were all at the fireworks the other night. And it's just like, I don't know, like, it's a different mentality than, then, then I see anyone else. And I don't know. I feel like. I was going to say it's funny because I think most of my buddies who have had. drug like i've never had a drug problem right like i've never drank i've never smoked i've never done anything like right um you know but my buddies who have all done that and then either don't struggle with they they're still struggling you know they get over then they right whatever like i don't really have anybody that's currently like a functioning well i do have a buddy named Travis he's like a functioning alcohol like he's always kind of you know but he'll like not drink all day like this is a guy got no driver's license right like he's a high or a full-time guy to drive him around.

That's how bad it is. He runs a tree trimming business. And he'll be like, I've heard you talking about it. Yeah, he'll be sober during the day and he'll go home and he'll drink and then he'll pass out and wake up that. But I mean, he's the kind of guy

that can wake up the next morning. Boom, he's up. Yeah, let's go. Let's do this. Like, are you serious? Imagine how effective and stuff he might be without that, right? Right.

Which is crazy. But, you know, no friends. Yeah. No real friends. You know, no friends. If he goes to the bar, he's going to the bar to get drunk and pick somebody a chick up

And come back. Yeah, purpose. No, but no real, since you said purpose, no real purpose in life. Right. Other than just, other than just working to pay bills. Yeah. Cycle.

And his big cycle of staying drunk. And then, you know, I have other buddies that are super successful, but had major, like probably had 20 years of their life. Well, you think? Yeah, probably close to 20 years of my one buddy. life maybe 15 to 20 years of I mean and he was in the military for something like eight years or something so is you know they're like professional drunks right in the fucking military like you can be a professional drunk as long as you can get up and go like Travis you can get drunk all

all you can get drunk all night pass out as long as you wake up the next day and function right function yeah they'll yeah they'll keep you alive your they'll they'll do that the whole line but I'm saying yeah he once he's got sober well a lot of you guys once they get sober And then they do get families. Oh, right, yeah. But no real friends, no active. Like, it's nothing but work and his family. And there's no.

And then I see other people that have, like, friends. Right. Like, they, you know, my closest thing to a friend is, you know, probably texting Wade. Right. Like, that's probably it. Like, Wade or Dominic or in our friendship. Yeah, I think you're right that the way you look. at it is not really what it is. No, I text them every other day once or twice. We send each other

reels. We almost never talk on the phone. We almost never. James is probably one of my closer friends and that consists mostly of text and reels. We have gone on vacation together and we'll probably continue to probably, I'd love to go on vacation because I like this guy a lot. Right, right. When I go to Vegas, I see him. We hang out. Yeah, I think, I know what, you know what my problem is I'm lying. I need to join soccer ball team or something. Yeah, well, soccer or something or as long as you're not doing that because you feel like that's what you should be doing. No, no, I genuinely like those guys, but I don't have. It's hard to have the, the, but I know guy like Colby's got a group of friends. They golf, they talk, right, right, right,

they go on, they go to dinner, aren't they? They make it a point to do. Yeah. Yeah. I have anybody like that. Me neither. And I don't really, well, I'm not really looking. Me and my friends were talking about that other day is like, we all say like we want to do that. And then, but then, then when it comes to the night, you're like, man, I just feel like staying home. I'm like, but I think the difference is I've just isolated so much. I don't have a partner now. Yeah. You know, and it's been, you know, me and my ex broke up three years ago, you know.

Yeah. And we, you know, it's been three years, but we just kept dragging it out because we tried to be friends. Yeah, yeah. We really were friends, but we couldn't not be this and friends. You know what I mean? Like, if I was ever going to be able to be friends with someone, it would be her. It was impossible.

Can't do it. Well, and then what's going to happen, too, is that. if you become friends the moment the other person gets a partner and finds out like it's over yes exactly exactly so but i think like i've been doing doing little stuff this honest stuff here and there yeah like you know making extra money on the side here and that and i think i think i can't do that i think i have to like be all or nothing you know what i mean like you make mistakes that you shouldn't do stuff like yeah but i'm talking about like you know just just stuff that when you stop getting high and get your life together, you shouldn't be stealing from work.

Yeah. You know, I'm not talking about years ago, but yeah, yeah. But all that stuff, doing that stuff clean has damaged me. Right. You know, it's kind of made me very, you know, jaded and cynical. And at the same time, like, I really, if you told me my life was going to be where it is right now, 10 years ago or even eight years ago, like you're, you're going to have progressed through this organization from the bottom all way up to the top, you know.

know, to the program manager, making almost $100,000 a year, like, doing this job that, you know, and I got my degree and all that stuff. I did all that stuff during COVID, all that shit. Like, it would have been impossible to think of me doing that then. But I did it all. And it just, I didn't get from what I thought I should. But I think, you know, I think I did that. I'm diminishing it with, like, the imposter syndrome, you know what I mean?

Like, if I can do it, anyone can do it. You know what I mean? But, like, I worked my ass off. like getting that one shelter to be efficient and then finding out every you know and then all of them and they overworked me but you know i learned a lot and the only reason i got the next job which is just as good was because of the last job because of all the connections i made and everything that's why i mean like people just wouldn't believe i feel the way i do but i think this is something normal not or that a lot of people go through that um they don't want they don't talk about

in recovery because it doesn't it you don't feel like you should be going through it it. You know, you're in recovery. You got years clean. You know, you're doing mostly everything right. So why do I hate myself? You know, and it's not like I hate myself for what I look and everything. Sometimes I think I'm a piece of shit, you know, and like it's hard to, you know, I've been a piece of shit all my life. I never heard, heard of people like intentionally, but the selfishness, like, you know, talking about my family when I was young. Oh my God. Like you couldn't, like my grandma could have been on her deathbed. And I would have just wanted to hang out at park on a normal day not doing anything different you know i wouldn't sit you know fuck that like

that's how selfish i was and you know that i think you know you pay for all that if you don't get out of it you know um i don't know i don't want to make us a downer interview you know i really like my life is good and and you know i'm gonna uh i'm gonna take this as a like a wake up call a little bit you know i mean because I wouldn't have came on here you know but like I do I care about what my kids think about right right and I tell them like you know I'm not ashamed of my past because I've overcome it you know what I mean and like being on here talking about it is proof of that right now but like the other day talking about what he's doing now like um and then telling him how I feel about like it's not he's not going to listen to anything I ever say if I don't change that because I know

know it's wrong to feel like that, to be living my life like that and not living for anything but them. You know what I mean? And if I don't do that, you know, if I don't do that, I'm basically giving up on them, you know what I mean? Especially now because I told them, you know, I think I fucked up doing that, you know. I think I scared them for real. Right.

You know, like, but like I've always been real with them. You know, I've always been real with like, you know, your dad has a fucking fucked up past because they'd look you up. They'd look me up at some point. Oh, yeah. You can't. You can't. Yeah.

Not nowadays. You know, I know they look me up and it's just like, you know, they get older than they understand more, you know, but I just don't want them. I want them to know that like, yeah, I struggle, you know, everyone struggles, you know, but I can, you know, I can do the right things and get out of it the right way, you know, because of I love myself, not just because I love you. Because I do think loving yourself is important, you know, and I think I've never cared much about myself. But I think I was raised that way. I think like I grew up in a house where you just

didn't talk about stuff. You know what I mean? Like you just didn't talk about anything other than superficial stuff, you know? And my kids don't aren't like that. They want to talk about stuff. You know what I mean? Like they don't have that inclination. Just like racism, my kids don't have, it doesn't even occur to them. And it's because it's getting kicked out of these generations. And I love it. It's great. But, you know, like with like, I grew up not talking. So whenever my someone to talk about what he's doing doesn't feel right to me and I don't want to do it but I do it because I know it's healthy but I'm like why the fuck do you want to talk about this you know like if I was you in your age I would not want to talk about this at all I'd be avoiding all this yeah and he's

texting me like are we going to talk about it I'm like but but that's that's that's their that's this generation it really is they like you know I don't think it's soft I just think it's the way they are and it's healthy and thank God we're there because you know like I my mother, I've forgiven her for that, for the stuff with my stepdad. And it never would have came out. But my last girlfriend and her got close, you know, and at some point my mom said to Stacy, like, hey, I don't understand why he's not close to me. He's just always if Stacey's like, well, maybe it's because of this.

You know what I mean? And I think my mom was like caught off guard and like denied it. And then caught herself and was like, well, I just, I don't know what to do about it. I don't know what to say, you know. And I've seen that happen so many times with women, right? And I understand how it can happen. You're like, you're a single mother. You're in a bad position.

You meet a guy. You think he's a good guy. He's also paying the rent. He's paying the so you think. You don't want to see this stuff either. You think I need this person to keep a roof over. Right. You know.

And I've seen it with people that I respect and that I like that I know are good mothers. So, and then. She's tried to make up for it. You know what I mean? Like she's giving me a place to stay whenever I was, like, getting clean again. So I don't want to, you know, I want to be a forgiving person, you know, but that stuff damaged me, like, deeply, you know. And I've seen them years later.

When I got out of prison, I got out of grade of her, I was the best shape in my life. Me and my daughter's mother were at an N.A. meeting. And I seen them from the back and I knew it was him just from looking at him. And it's crazy how that stuff works because I went up to him and he turned around and seen me and he stood up and it was like he was 10 foot tall again. You know what I mean? It was like I was a little kid again for a second. And he's not.

He's like, you know, he was older and he was not taking care of himself. So he was in, and I was like 180 pounds of all muscle, you know. And he stood up and I went to give me a hug. Hey, how are you doing? And I was like, don't fucking touch me. He probably, he's probably clueless. He said, he said, what's the matter? Right.

I said, don't ever fucking touch me. I said, don't, and he, and there was a guy named Greg that just passed away that was with him that was his sponsor at the time. And Greg was like, trying to like get in between us, you know, didn't know what was going on. And I pushed him. And I, and I said, you're going to act like, you're going to act like you didn't beat the fuck out of me for all those years, a kid.

I don't know what you're talking about. And that just fucking, I lost it because it's like you're not going to deny it happen. Right. You're not going to make it seem like I'm crazy. Like I made it up. Like you were a fucking sadist, abuser, you know? And obviously, he's not going to admit it right there. Right.

You know, but I choked them, you know, tried to get, you know, but it's an NA meeting. So there's a bunch of people around and my daughter's mother didn't obviously don't want me doing that shit. But, you know, it was worth it to me. You know, like he died a few years later. He had, yeah, he had, he was like cooking meth. He was on the news for, he was cooking meth and blew his house up. And then the, and then he, like, they caught, they cops chase him in their woods. And he was, like, all confused from the, he was all confused from the explosion and, like, came out and he was burnt and all this shit.

Yeah, he ended up going to jail. But he did a bunch of mortgage fraud, too, like I was telling him. He was creative. I mean, he died. He left my brother a bunch of. houses like a bunch. Okay. And a trust.

So no one would fuck with them. Right. Whatever he did to get him was illegal. You know, and I think he thought putting them in the trust would protect them. Right. And it actually did. Yeah. Because they tried suing, you know, I helped my brother get, uh, get some of them out of the

trust and so on and stuff. But, but yeah, he, he was a piece of shit. But I'm so glad I got that opportunity to see him because I would have never even thought I would have did that because I was so scared to him, you know. And then I started like getting a sense of what. a pussy he was though whenever i would not give him that reaction and it would be like almost a five-year-old not getting a cookie or whatever right i mean and and yeah he would want to he would want to hurt me but he couldn't without leaving marks and stuff you know i mean he left marks but he you know it would get to

where he'd be punching me in the face right and it's like you're gonna give me a black eye it's gonna be a problem yeah yeah you know it you know but you know uh thank god like my kids don't have to go through that shit man like step being a step parent i did that a few times it's not easy though you have real kids your own kids i have i have a son okay so you guys do have kids it's like people don't have kids just don't understand you know it it it's the best thing that ever happened to me but in a way it it took away my own you know reason to live you know i just put everything on them third reason i live and that's not right you know what i mean that's not a whole person you know but they're better than me that's my goal is to like have kids that are better than i was right you know

should this should be the goal of all parents right right well i do feel like i was i'm a piece of shit inherently which is what's not like you sound like you feel like that but then you have to work to not be you know and that's the best i can probably do you know it's probably the best i can do and i didn't make me so i'm not you know i was uh our our uh our uh our environment I think are have a lot to do with it. I know you said your dad was like an alcoholic and stuff. I don't know. Do you think that affected you a lot?

Like a lot of your your personality and stuff? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I know my dad like not being there probably did. But I can see, you know, just what you did a little bit you were telling me. Yeah.

I can see like, you know, because you know that routine you were talking about like, you know. Oh, yeah. You probably don't get anything from them, right? like any affection any my dad yeah no my whole when you were talking about no affectionate at all even my mom who was you know amazing was not an affectionate person yeah i mean you she uh she was she was Norwegian she used to tell it i mean it's a joke but it's not a joke and it was that there was once a there was once a norwegian man that loved his wife so much he almost told her oh my i mean this is like you know yeah just there's just very

cold people and so they i'm not sure i ever recall seeing my parents hug it's so crazy or hug us the stuff you talk about in jail though she was like so wit like making oh she was a gangster i'm not saying she's not a gangster yeah my mom i'm not do any of that my mom ain't even visiting or she would visit if i asked her but yeah like she my mom was just she was a gangster but she was because that that she was she was a tough woman right right right right but she wasn't a she was someone who criticized a lot where it was like if I did a painting was like mom come look at my my pain I finished my pain and she'd walk it and she'd go

I don't like the shadow here it's too dark it's too there was never any like oh my gosh man it's so amazing it so that fucks you up right so it was never that it was always this and that this doesn't look proportionate is this

where's the where's the let me see the picture what is the picture like oh no Matthew no no I was just like go fuck yourself like what are you talking about lady like i'm just fucking paint i have this picture i just painted a fucking you're the one person that's supposed to say it's great no matter what but that's that wasn't that wasn't her you know and you get used to it and and you don't think it's a big deal until one day you go to your friend's house right and you're like the fuck is going on with your mother and father yeah

how many times can they tell you you're a wonderful fucking child that hug you and kiss you and tell you that feels so gross to you yeah it's really like the fuck is going on you know yeah no i'm with you man i feel like i know i know i know my mom mother had trauma you know i know my mother had abuse and trauma so i know that she probably did the best she could yeah yeah you know so that's why like i yeah i don't doubt my mom loved me she just it was a very different listen they were right they were raised definitely loves you to do that stuff for you yeah they were raised both my parents were raised during the depression right right right you know which is yeah you know and my dad had a horrific childhood right you know until my mom eventually left his my grandfather his father his father

and remarried. And even then, that guy wasn't that great. According to my father, I don't, who knows, I never met the guy. So, yeah, but he, he, you know, he just had a, I mean, we're talking about back when my dad was, remember I told you my grandfather? He was the, he was a butcher. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like a professional fucking alcoholic.

And so my dad would tell you over and over again, he said, this is before eviction loss. Right. This is where you didn't pay, the owner, the landlord comes, just throws your shit out. There's no, we're not waiting. Yeah, because now it's like ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. Where now they're fucking, it's taken two months to get somebody out who you get one piece of mail there and then you can't throw them out for six months. Right. So my dad said, he's like, I, there was at least a dozen times when he came home from school and all their furniture

sitting on the front yard in the front yard, his mother's like sitting on the couch just crying right out. And he's walking, we're talking about a five-year-old kid walking home from school and And all the, they don't know where they're staying that night. Oh, wow. Like, this is over and over. And so he would, his dad would, because his dad had, his dad had, had drank all the money. Right. Lost his job.

Disappeared for a week. He'd come back in a week or two when he sobered up. He'd apologize, very charismatic, convinced her to come back with him. So when my dad was finally like seven or eight years old or nine years old or something, she finally just one day just left him. Really? Like one day moved and never talked to him. Just, we're done.

Wow. And then he ended up dying. cirrhosis the liver. Yeah. And she married somebody else, which I think he came with a couple other kids. And, yeah. But it was the same thing. It was just, you know, so he was raised in a horrific environment.

Yeah, my grand, we find money everywhere whenever she died. Like my mom was telling me, because she's depression, right, depression area. Right. Hide money everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Like afraid that shit's going to, you know, disappear or whatever. But, yeah, like, I think it's getting better with the trauma from generation to generation. because my kids have some, I'm sure, but it's not as a parent.

Right. You know, so I don't know. I can feel better about my job as a parent, but I definitely, like, that my whole life changed when I stopped being a parent every day. Right. Because, like, I didn't have to think. That was just, I lived life for years. And, you know, I would have never thought that that was what I wanted and that was what would fulfill me

because I didn't think I was good with kids. I wasn't until I had my own kids. But, you know, it was sad about my brother. You know, I told you a lot about my older brother, right? So he could never get clean. He could never stay clean. He would get clean for like a year. And he would never, he would come to meetings, but he would never do everything.

He would do just enough to stay clean for a little bit, always relapsed. So during the epidemic, you know, everyone's dying around a lot of his best friends, a lot of mine. but he overdosed once and he would overdose every three weeks like i overdosed once in my life right and i died and it had to be narkan three times the only reason i'm alive is because uh they were building a gas station at the time i was in this alley went down dude was in a backhoe seen me fall and called an ambulance they came narcan me three times the third time brought me out of it i was fucking piss because you wake up sick yeah you wake up going through withdrawals i was going to fight you know and i'm yelling at they just saved my life you know i wish i could tell them

thank you you know but i think they know what they you know but uh my brother he would go through this all the time he would over he was just push it all the time and uh he overdosed in my mom's house and i like beating them up right before then because i came to my mom's which i did i was cleaning the time and come there and uh you know my mom for whatever reason he's the oldest she just has a soft spot for him just let him walk all over you know and like so he's getting high in the house up in the attic he's like 30 living up you know and and i went up there and he had his needle there and i'm like dude like go do this somewhere else like stop doing it here like you're because it hurts it hurts both of them you know what i mean they want to help them so they're in denial

all the time but it's like i know what's going on so after that i leave and i call his p.o right tell his p.o it's on a friday You need to come and get him and take him to rehab. Just come and urine test him. It's going to be dirty. He's getting high. He needs help, right? P.O.

I left a message. He didn't answer, but no response at all for me. He doesn't do anything, apparently. Later on that week, so that was a Friday, so I think by Tuesday or Wednesday, he OD's in the attic. No one knows he's up there. My mom thinks he's out. He's out there for 24 hours straight.

Doesn't move at all on one side. has his eye hung open you know what I mean like like this right goes blind in this eye uh his retina detaches from no moisture and then he gets compartment syndrome on this side of his body so his whole legs swelled up like this and it's still to this day it's like an open wound like compartment syndrome is whenever you lay on one side constantly and you never let any uh blood flow you know right you know so all your nerves and stuff die or whatever and so that happened he he had to deal with that right you think that would be enough no so and he that that's that compartment syndrome scars so nasty my other friend has one too same thing happened so he's blinding one eye the leg messed up

so then like three weeks later doing more and then uh i think he had a bunch of seizures this time right because he's like smoking doing dope so he has a bunch of seizures and then he's a bunch of seizures and then he has a stroke when he has a stroke he loses a lot of oxygen to his brain like the ambulance come but they don't like stabilize them fast enough now he's he's never been the same he has no short-term memory if he came in here right now and we all said hi to him and then like you know we left the room and came back he would just think we just came no short-term memory like that bad and no personality like one thing about him is he was hilarious right funny you know I mean like he you know he he never really like would defend himself and stuff like I was the younger

brother but I always had to fight his battles like physically you know against older kids and stuff but he was funny as fuck you know he was always funny and when that happened he just doesn't have a sense of humor anymore really it's gone it's like drugs so it's like he's like this dead person walking around you know and um the ironic thing is my dad the stuff of my dad was like really affected him and he just mirrored it exactly like did the same exact thing that my dad did is like ruined himself with using ruined his whole personality and his you know his brain and now like you know he doesn't even not doesn't even occur to him to want to get high I think you know he's just like a I don't know like a half person he just doesn't have the personality anymore and uh I thank God that didn't

happen to me because it could have but you know it's just rampant everywhere stuff like I wrote this to my mother when I was like 17 in Newcastle, YDC. And this was the first poem I ever wrote where like people read and were like, wow, it's really, really good. I remember my counselor made me get it notarized right away. And this was like the first one where I really started like just every angle of it. But this is like 100% legit to my life. You know what, mom?

I will never be like my dad. I'm not that kind of person. I could never get that bad. I can already tell Mom that drugs just aren't for me. I'll never be like my dad. You just wait and see. I know what I should do now, Mom, since we had that talk today. Instead of trying drugs, I'll just say no and walk away.

I really can't believe that Daddy did the things he did. There's no drugger in the world that's worth abandoning your own kid. But don't be worried about me, Mom. That's the last thing that I do. I know how much it hurt you. It really hurts me, too. I forgot the stuff you taught me, Mom, about the troubled drugs get you in. And I tried alcohol tonight, but just as once to fit in.

I'm sorry that I hurt you, Mom, but this is really no big deal. Alcohol won't kill me. It's all those other drugs at will. I'm sorry that I'm late, Mom. I guess I wasn't thinking, but it's not me that smells like alcohol, and no, I wasn't drinking. I'm sorry that I lied, Mom, but you really shouldn't cry. I only drink occasionally. That doesn't mean I'm going to die. Smoking wheat and drinking is not as dangerous as you think, and it won't turn me into Daddy. He did way more than smoke and drink. They've locked me in the jail, Mom. Can you please come get me out?

All those times you tried to warn me. Now I see what it's about. Thanks for getting me out, Mom. Now I'll leave those drugs alone. But don't leave a light on for me tonight because I won't be coming home. Why are you kicking me out, Mom? Why do you want me to leave? I'll stop using all these drugs just to make you believe. Why were you in my room, Mom?

What were you trying to find? No, that needle doesn't belong to me and that hand isn't mine. No, you're not looking at my arms, Mom. Please leave me alone. Who are you trying to call, Mom? Please put down the phone. Okay, I'll go to rehab, Mom. I'll do it just for you.

I don't think I have a problem, but it's clear that you do. My treatment time is over, Mom, and I gave it all my best. But drugs are all I think about in all day I feel depressed. I'm not sure I can do it, Mom, but I guess I have to try. I've already wasted enough of my life, treating drugs, and getting high. Please don't cry for me, Mom, because I'm still that same old kid, and I won't turn into my dad. Oh, wait, I guess I already did.