Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside The Mind Of Legendary Psychopaths | ATF Agent Shares Insane Stories of Psychopaths

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

Inside The Mind Of Legendary Psychopaths | ATF Agent Shares Insane Stories of Psychopaths

people don't realize how many of these serial killers are among us they're everywhere you know you don't have to be a guy like bundy or domer who have these high or or john way gasey who has these crazy numbers right 30 40 50 whatever some people are serial killers and they kill every so often you know they may have four or five but you know the key is they kill few they lay low seem go down and they keep on doing again some of the guys and they live in society like normal They have a normal life, and they're Jekyll and Hyde, and then at night they do House of Horrors. It's scary. And I think people need to know how dangerous serial killers are everywhere.

I think people don't understand how prolific they are. I heard the other day that the average person comes in or crosses the path of something like, was it like three to six, three or it was like three or six psychopaths a day that they actually come into contact with and don't even know it. You know what John Wayne Gacy's last words were? I mean, Bundy, at least when he was fried there and old sparky, his last words were, I tell my family I love them and, you know, whatever, all that. At least that's something, right? Right. John Wayne Gasey kissed my ass.

That's his last words. Kiss my ass. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Ignacio Esteban. He is a former ATF agent, retired, and he's written several true crime books based on various cases. I just finished one of them, and we're going to do an interview. So check it out. What's going on, Matt? Hey, what's going on?

Nice to be back on your show, the second one. Yeah. Yeah, how did the first show do? It did all right, right? Yeah, I think about over, what, 13,000 views of Foreign County? Yeah, that's good. Very good number. People like that.

Some liked it and some not so big fans of ATF. You know, you, yeah, well, you, like I said, before, you, you know, you always have some guy who's saying, this guy's full of shit. Listen, I did one, it's funny because I had a guy that I researched his entire case. I wrote a, I wrote a synopsis, about a 12,000 word synopsis on it. case, researched it, saw all the documents, everything. And there were guys in the comment section, that's bullshit. That never happened. Like, he said this. And he, like, this isn't the guy saying it. Like, I ordered the police report. This is the police saying this is what happened. Right, right. I didn't just take his word for it. And, you know, I, even on my own, every once while

you get somebody saying, you know, this guy's full of shit, you know, this didn't happen. That didn't happen. It's like, okay, well, if those things didn't happen, why did I go to federal prison they didn't send me there for no reason like my charges are you know they're real it's right so but you know there's always going to be i would say for for listen for every 90 to 100 guys that tell me say wonderful things there's always one guy or two guys that are just like they and they'll hate you for no reason yeah yeah people some people just like put in bad reviews because they like put in bad reviews they're not taking anything well and listen to be honest like those are the ones i typically react to, too.

So I'm only helping that situation by reacting to them. Yeah, I've learned to ignore it now. Yeah. I just ignore them. I ignore them completely, and they do go away because a lot of them are haters because they can't do it themselves. They have nothing and they sit behind a computer. A lot of people can be really badasses behind a computer with a fictitious

username and put ridiculous stuff out there. But face-to-face, they won't do that. Listen, not even face-to-face. Sometimes if you just respond to them, like I not even mean you just say wow bro I don't know why you would say that like this is what happened I'm not sure where you're getting that they'll come back almost immediately and say yo oh bro I didn't mean that I didn't realize yeah I was I was drinking last night when I wrote that it's like like they really just want attention yeah yeah that's like that's unfortunate you do see a lot of kids like that and who knows maybe they are underage and they're just being goofy and they're going out there and just doing you know silly things because people are create these fictitious accounts. We all know that. And a young kid just,

and they know it, they like stir things up too. So that's why a lot of times I've learned. I saw some really nasty things, not in this one, but other shows and I'm like, I'm not going to even respond to anything like that. You said something about the red light district back here.

Listen, I got a red wall. I painted the red wall. I have, I usually, I just took down, I had a bunch of Maryland Monroe paintings. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

I took them now, now. Oh. So I'm going, I'm going minimal. It's just going to be a red wall with the soundproofing, the mics. It's going to change everything. It's going to be huge. I think you'll see that. I like it.

Yeah. I like it. But I do like Marilyn Monroe, though. I'm a big fan, no doubt. Yeah, I mean, I've got, I make those, I don't have you ever seen, I make them, they're modified screen print. So it's a screen print of Maryland in Roe, but every one of them is different, like different colors. Yeah, I saw Spearlem. Yes, I like that.

So I sell those on Etsy, although sales have dropped recently. The last few months, everything's starting to go south. Even book sales. Might have been steady. Might have been steady. The more shows I do, the more the numbers are going higher and higher. And I do a lot. I'm not just true crime, as we talked before.

I do politics. I do travel. I do my, I did a few books of my daughter, kids' books, too. So if I like kids' books, I've done that with a really good message, family, wholesome messages. I just do a variety of things. I really enjoy it. And I just did a crazy one on psycho killers. And of course, you listen to my auto. And now I'm really getting with Sean and you know Sean well. I mean because of you. Excellent, excellent voice actor. I've been working with him. I have this big one that's going to come out soon, about seven hours, almost seven hours, the most dangerous crime syndicates of our time, which is just from A to Z, soup to nuts, a lot of my shorts put together

dealing with the one percenters, Talia, Mexican cartels, Yakuza, street gangs, prison gangs, all in there, all in there. So if you really don't have a good handle, this book will put you to start getting in the right direction. So I think it's going to be really seven hours, so I look forward that one coming out.

He's been working hard on this one. Do you ever do anything on the, the Chinese gangs in like LA the the triads in my street gang book there's a chapter on that yeah there's true gangs yeah I'm working on a story right now on on the on them on the triads okay cool cool I was gonna ask you I did a book also in MS 13 and you guys are in Pasco and it's a true crime channel what the heck happened holiday with a poor Uber driver with an MS-13 guy that goes in there and kills him and takes apart you see that i i heard it on the news i mean just i think about that the savagery and brutality of ms 13

mara savabutja they're not just in l.a anymore they're nationwide Canada and they've gone enormous in central america because where their roots came from they went back and they're pretty much taken over you know uh el salvador Honduras guatemala and south and southern mexico is it they're spreading is it el Salvador where the president, they elected the president, he built that huge prison and just went and arrested like 10,000 of them or something. Yeah, they're trying to, but it's like you stop them more. They keep on spreading, right? Like ants, you hit the ant pile and they just keep on coming around.

It's cultural. It's just, and when people are in that culture, it's hard to, you incarcerate them, but they're so hardcore, they don't care. They come out. They'll come back at it again. So what I'm reading, what I saw, I'm sheriff, I met him briefly from Pascoe, and I need Sheriff, white from before out there since I worked so many years out there and I know you're in that area unbelievable in holiday that poor Uber driver goes near Texas his wife hey this is my last delivery of the day I should be home right afterwards right that's the last thing he does man

he walks in the door and it's lights out guy kills him and horror stories and I guess he was putting his body in like body bags so unbelievable you just don't it's dangerous anywhere I tell people And I think with psycho killers, I talk about the element, the culture, and what happens. People don't realize how many of these serial killers are among us. They're everywhere. You don't have to be a guy like Bundy or Dahmer who have these high or John Way Gacy who has these crazy numbers, right? 30, 40, 50, whatever. Some people are serial killers and they kill every so often.

You know, they may have four or five. But, you know, the key is they kill few. They lay low, see him go down, and they keep on doing it again. Some of the guys, and they live in society, like normal. They have a normal life, and they're Jekyll and Hyde, and then at night they do House of Horrors. Well, especially if you can get away with it. They get away with it because a lot of times they don't even,

there's just opportunity is there, and they just, boom, they snap and like a long-distance truck driver or something. Like, how are you going to catch that guy? He killed somebody, gets in his truck. He didn't know him. There's no connection. Yeah. They get a lot of prostitutes, right?

These people, hitchers. Yeah. Right. People, loners, homeless people, people in society don't care about. Right. People don't get a missile kind of people, and they prey on those people and do horrible, horrible things. I know we're talking about my book, but I'll tell you one story here, and hopefully people read this book. It's going to really popular. And it's called Psycho Killers, right?

And I talk about, you know, I mentioned the Dahmer's and the Bundys and the Gay Seas. And I also have a little history on H.H. Holmes, I guess, America's first original big serial killer, but some people think was Jack the Ripper also. And we can talk about that on a different show. Why similarities? Because he was also in London, 1888 during that time period. He also came back.

He had family that was also British. So a lot of connections between, and he was a doctor. Because the guy who did with Jack the Ripper was someone who was a physician because they were very quick in dismanting the organs and taking things out. Because that's what Ripper did within two minutes. He would take out these females. organs and everything else and it's member of them really quickly and this guy was also very good at that so those things we can talk about later with homes and the comparisons there's even the family

member out there who believes that his great-great-grandfather was jack the ripper and he makes a great argument why he thinks so and stuff like that which is fascinating but i'll talk about a quick story here about what makes a serial killer here uh you you had uh richar ramirez right the night stalker right he's my last chapter in my book there chapter 12 there's the original night stalker which is uh joseph de angelo who was a former police officer who becomes a serial rapist and serial killer at the time and he he is the original nice talker but they think they're the one and the same then later with dna and evidence they realized these were two different killers killing in california at the same time right so you got massive lots of serial killers out there yeah i didn't know

there was a second guy called the night stalker i thought there was just the one yeah no he's the original night soccer de angelo joseph de angelo former cop who becomes serial rapists and then they evolve first he starts into the burglaries he goes south and then he goes into and he was at burglary detective for years so that's what he became good at that then he changes goes to the dark side starts doing it then he gets into raping the women tying them up right become i think he raped over 60 some women they're saying the numbers are heinous in california and then he became they starts killing him then so I mean he would do some real sadistic things when he would tie them up I'll give one example real quick he goes and he like to target elderly couple you know people that

won't be as resistant right and let's say he'll type the guy he'll say listen I'm going to put these dishes on your back if I'm hearing any movement from the dishes right because I know you're trying to get out of that they fall off your back I mean you're trying to get out what I just tied you up here because he's raping his wife right I'm going to kill your children in the house, too. So I'm going to do what I'm going to do here. I see any movement. This is all documented reports where he said and he confessed to all this.

So he talks about what he did. This is, I mean, when I read this stuff, I'm in shock. What's going on here? So that's how sadistic people are. You imagine that shit. He comes in with a flashlight and he says, this is what I'm going to do to you? So that's DeAngelo. He is the original night stalker.

This guy is also, what we call the nice talk, because they thought when the detected they were one the same, but they weren't. They're different guys. And this guy, DeAngelo, this guy Ramirez, he is pretty much psychologists say he wasn't born a psychopath. He was made into a psychopath. I'm going to tell you real quick how he was made to it. And this is a family of serial killers. Now I'm going to explain to how he had, he was in a family of serial killers, which is unbelievable.

I didn't know any of this until I start researching all this myself. And I started looking at it. His cousin was a decorated green beret in Vietnam. older than him, but he was killing young Vietnamese women over there. And he was really sick. He would dismember them. He was decapitate them and then use his Polaroid camera and take pictures of all that. This would be documented by Ramirez when he confessed later, all the stuff and what they find.

So he's a dictatorial member. He's in Vietnam, and he's doing House of Horrors on these young women, right? He gets away for three years, never gets convicted of it. He comes back to the U.S., and he starts indoctrine his younger cousin, how to be really, sadistic against women and he starts developing a taste to hurt women pretty much at an early age he gets into drugs he gets an LSD he started using cocaine and he starts growing into and he teaches him the tricks of being a beret how to stalk people how to kill someone quietly how to do things and and how to you know everything everything he did he teaches he even snaps one time

and kills his his wife this is the the green beret kills his wife in front of him in a rage, shoot her and kills her, right? He witnesses the whole thing. He gets away with it because he claims he had PTSD from the war, right? And he's ruled not guilty reason of insanity, right? He does some few years in the mental hospital in Texas and comes back out and goes back with him. And he asks him, how does that impact to you seeing your cousin kill his wife like that?

He said, didn't bother me at all. I was just fascinated by it. It just fed into a kind of person he was making me. Buried by the U.S. government and ignored by the national media, this is the story they don't want you to know. When Frank Amadeo met with President George W. Bush at the White House to discuss NATO operations in Afghanistan, no one knew that he'd already embezzled nearly $200 million from the federal government. Money he intended to use to bankroll his plan to take over the world. From Amadeo's global headquarters in the shadow of Florida's Disney World, with a nearer,

inexhaustible supply of the Internal Revenue Services funds. Amadeo acquired multiple businesses, amassing a mega conglomerate. Driven by his delusions of world conquest, he negotiated the purchase of a squadron of American fighter jets and the controlling interest in a former Soviet ICBM factory. He began working to build the largest private militia on the planet, over one million Africans strong. Simultaneously, Amadeo hired an international black ops force to orchestrate a coup in the Congo while plotting to take over several small eastern European countries. The most disturbing part of it all is, had the U.S. government not thwarted his plans, he might have just pulled it off. It's insanity. The bizarre,

true story of a bipolar megalomaniac's insane plan for total world domination. Available now on Amazon and audible. So I talk a lot about Ramirez and what, And the stuff he does is absolutely horrific to his victims. So if you're interested in this and you want to know more, the psychology, what we just talked about? Psycho-Killers has a lot of that. And stories, I had no idea. I mean, I started dabbling into it, and I had no idea how sick and perverted these people really are. Yeah, I watched the documentary on Netflix on Ramirez.

It's like a six-part series or something with the two detectives. Yeah, it was a nice talker, right? the nice stalker right it was actually you know let's I mean for you know obviously they don't most of the people are just not either around or don't want to be

speak about it not a lot of B roll you know just the but the interviews and the B roll that they did come up with like they did an amazing job on that on that series like it was it was it was really good the same thing with Bundy

that's in Bundy Dommer has a good one too yeah I never Oh, the Dahmer one really bothers me. The Bundy one was really good because there were so much stuff that I, like, I didn't know. I didn't know he'd escaped from prison multiple times. I didn't know. Yes, he did.

Yeah. How many times he'd come close to getting caught. Yeah. House of Horrors in the sorority in Florida State, isn't it? He escapes from prison. They have him for a homicide charge. He walks out the front door dressed as the jailer, right? Dress as the jailer.

Yeah, I think so. He walks out the front door. He's gone for months. He takes trains, planes. He's all over the country until he settles in Tallahassee, and he snapped. He said he was trying to get, you know, because he confessed this later. I read his reports. I read everything.

That's what I do. I read a lot. And he says that he was trying to get construction work, but they did a background check on him. And he couldn't pass the background because obviously he was been arrested, right? Yeah. But I mean, he's supposed to be in person. Fictitious IDs and all that. He just can't get through it.

he gets triggered he got triggered and then when he gets triggered he goes in the sorority house i think it's kai omega and he goes in there and commits house of horrors in there and it's just horrible and the details and what he does it's just if you want to see a little detail i put in my book how sadistic how sick this guy is and a lot of these guys get a sexual charge while they're doing this by the way right they really enjoy this and that's evidence also against them that comes out of there so it's it's a lot of stuff these guys leave behind you know and physically but also emotionally baggage and stuff they're really really sick and he was intelligent guy who went to law school i don't think he graduated he had issues there he struggled with that but still smart enough guy

to figure out how to work the system and how and he was a attractive guy where he was able to trick a lot of the young female and he liked young females that looked like brown hair part of the hair in the back he had certain type that he liked very similar to his girlfriend and that's an interesting read there i mean she is living with a serial killer yeah that's unbelievable they end up getting married to uh once he's locked up all these guys do all these guys end up getting you know what john way gasey's last words were i mean bundy at least when he was fried there and old sparky his last words were say tell my family i love them and you know whatever all that at least that's something right right john way gaysa kissed my ass

last words, kiss my ass before they put the inject them and he says kiss my ass like saying he had no remorse. He killed over 30 and he loved young boys. He loved young teenagers. He was the clown. Pogel the clown, right?

He was successful. That's creepy. Creepy because he was very popular in the community. He was very active. He helped people. Like you said, he has a dual Jekyll and Hyde. He said, I'm helpful. I'm nice guy. But then I'm also a creepy guy

that's going to take her son and kill him and you're never going to see him again and he what i don't i don't get too like he's living in the house with the smell the bodies are buried in the everywhere bodies everywhere yeah what i i mean i i get well i mean obviously you know there are certain things that just come along with with different mental conditions obviously the idea that he wouldn't dispose of the bodies somewhere else like how hard it always kills me it's like these guys murder somebody and then they they leave the body in the in the living room for two days days. And when it starts smelling, then they, they bear it outside. It's like, you can't, if you're able to kill someone, like you can't, I mean, you've got a job. Like, I mean, you're paying your bills. You should be able to think far enough in advance to say, hey, I cannot leave this body here. And I'm not going to bury it in my backyard. I need to get rid of it. Like, they just, no, just bear in the backyard. It's easier. Talking about leaving stuff around. How about Dahmer, man? I know you don't, you don't like really much about Dahmer.

but that one incident that he has was I mean again he he had a thing for black male prostitutes right right but he also went with Asians too and he had that that young boy from Laos right a famous story where he he's he drove the holes in the head yes he's he's so he's so messed up that he's drinking he's an alcoholic right and people who don't know Dahmer Dahmer's a severe alcoholic and something he goes in these stupers and or he'll get more beer and he left me he thought he was he wanted to make him an ultimate sex slave right that was his work he wanted to inject this guy so he can really control manipulative he really was was crazy out there but when he came back from the bar and to get more beer whatever he really liked drinking a lot of beer

and when he came back this is milwaukee and when he came back uh he saw the kid fully naked talking to his women at a bus stop and he was rambling and louse and he almost freaked out right when I was reading in the reports. So, and they said, well, he's my gay lover. He's 19 years old. We had a dispute. He gets like that when he drinks too much. I guess he's just taken back and it'll be okay.

And she said, no, we already called the police are on the way. So Milwaukee's finest, the police department comes in. They start checking. They call fire rescue. They come out because he's also bleeding in private areas and his anus in other spots too. You know, that's normal. We have sex and all that. And he's explaining all that, all the stuff.

the police officers and because he's incoherent he can't speak in english right now he's speaking in laos and he's like oh he's drunk he said okay we just had a dispute i said okay what do you guys live we're right up here okay let me take you back and they escort them back to his apartment he even tells me he tells me the report he thanks something you guys are doing a great job out here crime is out of control i appreciate everything you've done wow he puts them in so okay and officers last towards him. Hey, take care of him and says, I will. And he had him. He killed him with before they even got back to the car, right? Immediately. He injected him again and dismembered him and devoured him.

Oh, yeah. This is never getting monetized, by the way. Huh? This video is never getting monetized. Why? You know, you know how that works? Uh-uh. Okay. So monetization on a video, like, like they will limit. your monetization or make it just completely unadvertiser-friendly. It's a true crime channel.

What do they want? I know what you're saying, but like I say 99% of all my videos get monetized because we try and stay away from certain things. And because I typically don't talk about violence. Oh, that's what true crime is, all violence. But my channel isn't really violence. If you're watching in my videos, there's mostly it's scams and comments. And even if it's stuff like buying, you know, even your stuff wasn't violent that we talked about.

Because it was more about buying, you know, this is violent. This is true crime right here. This is as heinous as it gets. And if you're fascinated by this stuff, look at psycho killers. And we can talk about it. Like, don't hold back. Keep pushing the book. I think it's fascinating.

I know people love it. And every time I see people talk about it, the views are always. enormous so yeah you know what's funny it's like 80% of of violent true crime um is is uh women yeah women and then gay males really you see a lot of gay males prostitutes prostitutes suffer people you know these are people who people don't care about right right no no no no no i don't mean the victims of it i mean the people the consumers the people that watch it oh really yeah so so my analytics on my channel it's 95% male right or imagine but for some reason like if i talked about murders and and serial killers like if it was that kind of channel then 80% of it would be a female

would be watching it women are i would never guess that yeah women are super attracted to the more violent types of violent murders and serial killings and things like that i wonder if that that because they're scared and they want to protect themselves what mistakes these women made and learn from them maybe i don't know i don't know i really thought my channel would be more female like there'd be a lot of female at least a 50 50 mix or maybe 25 35 like but because i don't really you know really i guess talk about a lot of violence then it's just it hasn't picked up with it slowly initially it was like 99% 98 now i think it's down to it's actually been getting better but that that is fascinating i think everybody should be interested because uh it could impact

because the victims are not just women there's that misconception they're just the victims are women no no no a lot of men also get taken by by uh these serial killers also and couples elderly couples i remember ramirez you saw the you saw the document you're horrible yeah he picked him he picked elderly couples and there's 60s and 70s so so my gym for gender right last 28 days it's been male 92.5% female 70.4% 7% yeah so it and then 1% is user nonspecific or sorry 0.1% is user non-specific so yeah so the bulk of it is so it's not 95 now it's down to 92 um but yeah the bulk of of it is is uh is male on my channel which is insane but yeah you're you're right maybe it is because maybe it's because women are concerned or in fear or worried about me they should be yeah

they they're targeted there's no doubt about it we'll tone it down with the violence i won't go i was going to go more details on stuff i'll tone it down um but you're right because i noticed that a lot of the purchasers were women of my book yeah so that's interesting okay how is um how is the audio doing i want to work on audio on that that's me and shan we work a bit i'm busy like i said with the the worst match the worst uh uh crime syndics of our time i work on that so it's a lot of books out there i've just finished atf undercover obviously you see the poster back there working that one that's the one i listen to right yeah what did you think of it i thought it was funny my uh i was working out with my my wife this morning um

And I was listening, because I told you I listened to most of it this morning when I was working out, about 45 minutes of. And, you know, you don't really do scenes. You know what I'm saying? Like you, you don't, when I say scenes, I mean, you don't, you don't, and this is what kills me is like, and I mentioned it to her. I said, this guy was in the room with these criminals. Like, but he's not, you don't, yours is written, it's very informative. This happened, this happened. I said this.

they said this, but you don't reinvent or put the dialogue. So every once in a while, you'll have a piece of dialogue where I tend to redo a scene, like they said this, I said this. And I'll do some narration on what the dialogue is because you can't go back and forth, back and forth. It's too much. But I notice that you don't really do that. You're getting, you very quickly get to just the core information.

The meat and potato? Yes. And you're like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, I wanted to know when you had, you know, a problem with your, the, I mean, you name what they are, but the supervisors, whatever. Sure. I know you're calling the, the GPPPT, you know, you give them the initials. Like, I don't know what that means. But obviously this supervisor and then his supervisor, like, you just basically say, you know, there was a dispute.

Like, we, we never got along. Like, what were some of those events? Like, you kind of skim over those. And to me, that's, I would have liked to have known. like you're saying the guy was a jerk but why was he a jerk like what did he actually you give some examples yeah you do but but it'd be interesting to see that one more one more one more i want more dialogue i want to see a little bit not a ton i don't like a ton just enough to get the so that you kind of know oh he's snide he's making snide comments or oh that was kind of a dick thing

to say and yeah and the books also i and i delve into that the waste fraud and abuse yeah the good the bad and the ugly of ATF right yeah it's not just me buying dope and guns right it's it's i tell you about that's to my also my personal life right yeah it's what my i went through my family my dad's passing from from pancreatic cancer how difficult that was yeah i mean it was the best of times it was the worst of times charles dickens right and i i personally experienced that in 2006 got married came back from europe beautiful vacation from the canary islands and especially pain and then also my father gets sick and he deteriorates. It was a very healthy man, very healthy guy.

He didn't drink much, 66, 66 years old. It didn't smoke much, didn't smoke any, they didn't drink any, very fit. It was a big cyclist, an avid cyclist, love to work out, but he got diagnosed for stage four pancreatic cancer, and it was within seven months, that was it, and deteriorated immensely quickly. So those are hard things to go through and live through. And while you're still having your caseload in Tampa, back and forth to Miami, have a newly would, a new wife. There's a lot of things thrown at you in my early 30s. So, you know,

those are the things you got to carry. Well, what I was wondering about and this, and I've noticed this, I noticed it in the BOP, you know, when I was locked up. And I know, and I had heard this from officer saying this. And I've, I've noticed this, it basically in the federal government. You even say, you don't still get this kind of, this kind of behavior other than the federal government. The private sector are you? Huh? In the private sector, you act. You'd be fired. Instead, they just, they just transfer you. So, and then a lot of times in the BOP, what I, it was explained to me, they said a lot of times what happens is they'll say, we want to transfer you, but they can't make, they can't force you to do it.

So they're like, we can't fire them. We can't transfer them. They said, the only way you can force them to take the transfer is to give them a raise. There we go. So if you say, look, where? going to make you so you're going to make you a case manager or you know right now you're a counselor we're desperate to get rid of this fucking guy we're going to you know what we're going to do we're going to give him a race we'll make them a case manager at this other institution get rid of them

yeah so then they tell the other institution this guy's amazing yeah sure great yeah so what happens is the worst of an employee you are the more sometimes not always but a lot of times you get these problemed individuals that keep getting new ways or advancing and they don't they shouldn't be advanced yeah i had some duzies that you know i had some duzies in tampa and in florida i always said this is my motto i don't know if i said last time of your show the bad guys were the easy part really were because i had to overcome so many hurdles as the case agent as the undercover also was the volk custodian did my own workups i a team's a smaller agency than fbi and dea and So I have to wear many, many hats and do many, many things.

And we have a bad supervisor or even worse, a horrible prosecutor. Nothing's worse. The same thing applies in the Department of Justice all over. You get a bad prosecutor who doesn't do justice to your case. It can all unravel. And you spend a year, year and a half, putting it together. That is so frustrating. That's one thing I like about what I'm doing now as a writer

and getting now involved more and more, maybe movie production, maybe a TV series production. is you can work as hard as you want and be successful as you want and produce as much as you want while in the federal government that's not always the case and there's people that want to hold you back and don't want you to succeed and there's a lot of issues that people just don't understand the ins and outs of the government and politics that make it hard sometimes to overcome and it's a lot of personal vendetta and personal grudges people can be very very nasty that way and make it very very difficult like that one case i mean there one of my supervisor had he was very angry

at another undercover you know he decided to take it out on him a supervisor right he and we had an h2 a hummer you know h2 is a very large people who don't know it's a very large vehicle very expensive vehicle maintained it was supposed to mean only for selective use to undercover work it's a flash car right you know you're going to do a by bus it's it's a car you use very selectively this guy decides i'm taking away from him i'm going to punish you and now it's my g-ride And I'm going to use it all the time He lived in Land of Lakes, by the way, in Pasco And he had to go down to Tampa

And he's gassing up twice a day Once I get there, he's getting maybe nine miles a gallon Right He did that for over four to five years, right? He even had agents come in early Because in downtown area, he couldn't fit that monster in the parking garage So he would have an agent get in there, park early on the side And when he said, hey, I'm on my way, I'm around

He would have to pull his car out So he can park You can't make this shit up Unfortunately, this is all real stuff And he will park aside So of course he puts his placard there So the city's not making any money from that He keeps that out all day

So he was a control free And the amount excessive money The town field division spent And the ASAC knew about it The sack knew about it But they did nothing Because they didn't want that conflict, that battle So that's a waste

You know how much more He should have a regular car Like everybody else did And a supervisor should not have that kind of car And that's one of main example And he would later, I was friends in the beginning, but later take it out on me because of issues we had, because my partner, I think I mentioned a last show, the Puerto Rican bullet catcher, right? He was involved in that famous shooting in Miami, which Rippling, believe it was or not, did a big episode on after he retired, where he takes the round from a bad guy who shoots into his gun, right? He had a sick nine millimeter.

He had a sick nine millimeter. And when he's trying to arrest a guy in Hyaliyah, he fires around him and he catches in his barrel. he catches it in and plugs his barrel he can't shoot the guy. But goodness, the highly SWAT team is on the other side of the vehicle and opens up on him and takes sure of that guy. He's very lucky. But the glass shatters on him and everything else. He's lucky to war with that guy.

But he was my mentor. And I worked with the guy. And he wants me to turn me against him now. This is the kind of guy he is. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not going to say I want you shun him, don't talk to him, don't deal with him and everything else. Oh, you don't do what I was saying? He went to war with me. And I was a highly successful agent makes some of the biggest cases

I had undercover apartments and everything else. He doesn't give a crap. He doesn't give a shit. The next thing I know... It's fucking unbelievable. The next thing I know, I end up have to get transferred to Miami because the sack says to me,

she was a female, and she's had it with a whole situation. He says, it seems like the wall has been poisoned. And I have a weekend to figure out where I want to go. If now I'm going to find your home. And that's after 12 years being successful in Tampa. So I spoke to my wife, and at the time my grandmother was very ill. I said, well, I guess I go to Miami.

It says, oh, how wonderful. How wonderful. You've been making a lot of new friends. It's all true, though. It's unfortunate, folks. That's the reality of the federal government. And at least the private sector, people fire each other, because I've worked also in the private sector.

You're not competent. You're a buffoon. You're losing money for the company, right? Are they going to keep dead weight? No, they're going to get rid of you. You work in the private sector. You know that, right? Yeah.

Well, I mean, yeah, no, they'll, they'll, yeah. Oh, yeah, listen, not just that, not even not just pulling your weight if you're not making money, if you're a drain, if you're, even if there's a conflict, is there, that we're going to get rid of the guy who's causing the conflict, you know. How about, how about an alcoholic? You can't get rid of alcoholics. We had guys in the government you can't grow because it's considered disease, right? Well, there's, there's guys in the BOP that are hooked on, hooked on pain pill. I mean, the cops are coming. The correctional officers are coming in.

They're high on pain pills. They're maniacs. I've written some about the corruption in some of these prison systems also in my books, prison gang killers. And some of the corruption is enormous all the way to the top, all the way to the top. What was the thing in that there was a state prison where the guards could control the movements of the inmates by opening gates? And they would end up letting two rival gang, inmates into an area

and they were taking bets on who would win? Yeah, yeah. I've seen that too. Or how about a lot of the female inmates getting pregnant by the guards there and everything else, right? Yeah. That happens a lot. I think the chief of one out there in Maryland, I don't say it was in Baltimore had like four or five females pregnant.

Yeah. So my, you know what's interesting is, so my wife was locked up in Coleman. You know, Coleman had a massive, a lawsuit against a bunch of women getting you know raped oh right yeah oh yeah it was it was it was big and she was there with all these girls and she'll tell you by whom the COs really right but here's the thing like when she'll sit there and she'll go she'll say her version is which I believe is that

the girls were literally targeting the the COs like They're flirting with them. They're trying to sleep with them. And then they get the COs bring stuff in for them. So they bring in food. They bring in, you know, they'll bring in cell phones. They'll bring in all kinds of stuff. And then they're sleeping with the inmates.

So, but technically the COs, if they have sex with an inmate, it's rape. The inmate, a female or male inmate cannot give consent. Therefore, it's forcible or therefore it's rape. That's right. So, you know, listen, literally her, her, her, her sally was having sex with one of the guards, you know, and she said, look, not that the guards weren't trying you, but she's like, they make it seem like they're being cornered and the doors are locked and three guards come in. She's, that's not what it is at all. It's like, the guards are flirting with them. They're like, you know, they would get them into a room or not, not trap them in a room, but like, hey, come in the office.

They closed the door. And, you know, they'd make out and they'd have sex. And, you know, and then the guard would bring stuff for them. Bring them in this. Bring them in that. Hey, can I bring in some food? Unacceptable, unprofessional behavior. Absolutely.

But, but what I'm saying, I mean, from the guard's perspective, obviously. But then the guards get charged with rape. Like, oh, my God. Like, you're charging, like, like, I get it. I understand it's inappropriate. But they, when you hear rape. Oh, rape, you think of Bundy and these other psychopaths. Of course.

So to me, it's like, come out with a lesser charge. well to be honest with you most of these guys just got dismissed yeah fired yeah they should be they were dismissed there was a huge lawsuit the inmates got paid but it was in there you know they specifically one woman got together and got several of the girls that had had sex with the guards and then several other girls that my wife says she's i don't i don't think that they slept with any of the ceos like i think they just jumped on the bandwagon but it was such a publicity issue for the BOP they just immediately came in and settled because let's face it, the girls that can prove they had sex with them. There's text messages. They're bringing stuff

in. They have samples of, you know, blood samples. DNA. DNA. You can prove this. I can prove that. And it's like, okay, well, there's no way you could have gotten that DNA unless. And then some of the, some of the COs immediately once they're cornered, they admit it. Yes, this is what happened. Yes, I also know this person did this. So they're giving each other up. Because if you lie and they prove it, then you get more charges. Now you're lying to a federal officer. Yeah.

Now you've got more stuff coming out of your way. So anyway, what happened is they ultimately, they let these guys go and they paid out a huge fine. I think that's a huge problem throughout the country in the world. Yeah. And not just men and women. I think you see also men on men too. Well, you get these. Well, listen, I had a, I knew a guy in there. Oh, my God, this is horrible. There was a CEO that had been moved around. Literally, I don't know how long he'd been with the BOP, but he'd been moved around multiple times. And my buddy in there, his name, I'll give him, his first name was Frank. Frank was an older guy. The CEO was an older guy, probably late 50s, early.

60s. My buddy's an older guy, early 60s. He's walking by one day and the CEO who'd only been there, you know, a week or two, says to him, tells him to come into the office. If he walks in the office, he goes, close the door. And he's like, you don't walk in and close the door. Like, what he's doing? He's like, um, okay. So he closes the door. It's a low, you know. So he's sitting there and the guy says, uh, he goes, how long have you been here? He tells him, you know, he says, you know, he's, how long he's been here? He tells him, I've been locked up about, whatever it was, six years, seven years. Oh, yeah. He said, you look like your workout.

You work out? He goes, yeah, yeah, I used to work out a lot. Not so much anymore. I walked a track. He said, so he sparks up like a conversation. And he says, out of nowhere, the CEO says to him, you know, if you have sex with another man and you're locked up, it doesn't make you gay. And my buddy goes, yeah, it does.

he goes yeah it does and he said it doesn't and he goes listen man he said i i feel uncomfortable about this conversation he's what i'm going to go and he leaves when he immediately comes and he tells me and a guy named donovan uh that i was friends with he comes outside he's like listen to what just happened yeah and he tells us we're dying laughing and of course you know listen most of our time was in there was spent just just giving each other a hard time and I said, I go, listen, Frank, you got a lot of time. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't make you gay.

And I said, I mean, you might want to think. Now, my buddy Rusini is there, right? He does legal work. And I said, you might want to think about it. I said, listen, this may be an opportunity for a downward to get like a rule that. It might be an opportunity for you. You've got a lot of time.

You got nothing coming. And he goes, and he's like, fuck you. And then I said, and Donovan jumps in and he goes, think about it, Frank. is at least give them a reach around. And so Rucidi says, just from nowhere, Rucini goes, save the sample. This whole weird dying laugh. And of course, Frank gets upset and yells at us,

calls us a bunch of jerks and walks off. But, yeah, I definitely can see them trying people. Oh, my God. Yeah. And I think what I'm reading, what my experience is what the state system is even worse. The state prisons are a complete zoo. It's even lower. Yes, it is.

everything and that's where you you saw the corruption i want to say it was in baltimore and this is my book and it's it's been a while but it was like it was run like a criminal enterprise that the way they had everything structured with the females with the drugs coming in with everything it's just unacceptable and this is what you get when you can't get rid of people we'll go back to a point you have to have accountability and and the government that action what he did when I'm talking to a little supervisor, it should be accountability. When you have people that are incompetent, unfit, making bad decisions, or trying to hurt you, you have to have accountability because I'm risking my life, right? I'm meeting with these bad guys, making arrests, and then

you come back and you have to deal with an asshole supervisor or a shitty prosecutor. Some of them are either bad or they got their own agendas. You know, you've got activist judges, but you've got activist prosecutors. And the same thing applies everywhere. So a lot of people have no idea how difficult to be a successful but i'm a motivated person i'm a type of guy that sees a glass half full no matter what right but there people get broken easy and and and they're just disgruntled they're the kind of people that just are broken disgruntled and then just you know i just want to get along just get done i said no i'm here to do the job i came here because i had a passion i want to do these cases i want to put the worst in the worst in prison so i have to get motivated

and of course got my own personal life so i'm dealing with personal stuff right i'm having the and you know that person that has to you know when it's about work I got to focus here when I'm here because if not things just don't get done and and that's one thing I get people a message you're going to have issues in life you're going to have problems you got adapt and overcome and do things that's one of the message in the book and I also talk about I think solutions to some of the violent crime we have right I know you didn't get to the the backside there but I deal with you know solutions how to deal with repeat violent offenders right firearms trafficking And some of the thing is, some of our gun laws. I mean, I did a lot of farms trafficking cases. I talked about that, right? How much time a lot of these guys get for farms trafficking? Yeah, three years? One guy got 36 months?

The badasses, you know, repeat violent offenders get a lot of time, right? But if you have no history and you're running a lot of guns, you don't get much time, which is a problem. We need guys to get at least 10 years for massive trafficking. I had that case, I don't know if you remember, about the dirty FFL, the federal farms licensee, how I worked up. right and uh he ends up getting two years after putting tons of guns on the streets he violates a public trust he's not the guy that was in venezuela was there one of the guys was in somewhere latin america venezuela puerto rico yeah was it porto rico yeah 30 fedex employee no this was a guy he ended up getting like 30 i remember he got 36 months i think you

said uh was it eskabar's last name was eskabar oh out of uh ecuador right yeah and he said, you know, tried to say, oh, I was just selling them to friends. Yeah, yeah, you're smuggling. You're a smuggler. You lied about it. But it was a lot of guns. You can't have those guns there. And you can't say there are a bunch of

aficionados who are having fun on the weekends hunting because they weren't. There were a lot of handguns in there. And they were recovered in a house. This case started full of gang members in Guayaquim and Ecuador. So that's what we got to leave you, traced it back. And he was trafficking guns since his days in college

in the 90s at LSU. And you got what? He got like three years. Three years. And that's significant. Not a time you don't see that kind. You see guys because they had no criminal history. So those are the issues I talk about were virus trafficking has to be taking more seriously.

And that's something where because these guns going bad people, not just international trafficking, which that was a major international case. You have domestic trafficking and you have local trafficking. And local trafficking is one of these guys getting the guns. These are bad gang members. This is how they get their guns in the black market. and it's very easy we have people who are doing and I did a lot of cases where I'm dealing with felons who sell shop in these flea markets or or these gun shows right private sales right there's no cash and carry or you go online in the internet and you meet people felons being felons at the parking lot of wherever and they're buying guns we've got some big problems to deal with with that because you can pass all the gun laws you want and put all the gun control in place which doesn't work in my opinion but there's so many loopholes people find a way around it bad guys always do bad things right and we're the ones to get victimized to good people um I was going to say listen to this and tell me if this made sense I mean you know when he said it I never questioned it it seems like wow that seems like a reach well it's not a reach it's I knew a guy that was a felon went to did I tell you this last time he went to one of those gun shows with his girlfriend his girlfriend his girl Girlfriend buys the gun.

Yeah. Comes back. But it was, he was in his, they were in his vehicle. The ATF, he said, had gone through and gotten the tag numbers of people at the gun show and run them. They saw that I was a convicted felon. So he said like two weeks later or something like that, they pulled him over and he had the gun that his girlfriend had got. And he ended up getting a constructive possession charge. And I think he got like three years or five years or something like that.

But he had a history. No, no, he was, well, when he's a felon, too, he had been arrested already before for drugs. Sure. So you have a history and more time. People who are like, let's say straw purchasers. Let me give this example. You know, people who don't know what a straw is, that's somebody who has no criminal history that goes into an FFL, a federal firearms licensee, buy some guns, says this gun is for me, right? He's an actual purchaser.

Right. And they end up giving the guns to a felon or something, right? people with no history, a lot of times just get a slap on the risk and get probation. Well, if you bought a, if I bought a couple of guns, not me, but if somebody with no history bought a couple of guns for you, two years, yeah, for me and had him for three or four years and then went and sold them, he's not breaking the law. The problem is when they go in and they buy the gun knowing they're going to sell it to this guy, like I'm buying it for $500 for $500, and I'm going to sell it for $1,500 to this guy over here. They can't do that. right but you're telling your own gun no yeah if if you're like say collectors collect right traffickers sell right I'm a collector I keep my guns because I need my firearms I want my

weapons right and if you want to sell firearms get your license do it the right way you have to get background checks and a lot of stuff like listen I've been retired from ATF close to two years now right I've done the gamut with ATF from investigations, from undercover case agent. I've done all kinds of cases, and they went to headquarters. I promoted and spent two years in headquarters, and I saw behind the scenes how things worked, right? At the top of it, I became very good friends with the number one command in the central region,

and because we worked together on the most sensitive projects, sensitive cases. That's because of what happened to Fast and Furious. Operation Fasten Furious, it hadn't monitored more of these cases, so this wouldn't happen again. So guns wouldn't walk the technique walking to Mexico and the cartels, stuff, things like that. So something's risky. Sensitive, hey, we've got to put an end to this and see what's going on here because we don't want a public safety issue and stuff like that.

So I saw a lot firsthand what was behind the scene, but I'm not happy with the Biden administration. This has changed. And in my opinion, this is my opinion. I'm going to say this. That's kind of weaponized ATF with the bump stocks and with the pistol brace, right? Right. They were legal for years. I know guys who bought them, right?

They said they were no issues to attach it. Obviously, you're not, and people don't know what a pistol brace is. You put in a handgun, and you're not supposed to shoot from the shoulder. It's supposed to help you shoot better. It's supposed to put it on your shoulder because then it becomes an SBR. But people violate it, and I guess the Biden administration thought, like the bum stop. You know, it's supposed to make you shoot faster. It's almost automatic.

It makes you pull faster, right? But Steve Paddock used it in the worst mass shooting in U.S. history in Las Vegas, right? The sniper there on the strip during the concert, and he set up like a, With two suites, a rich guy who went crazy, but he used it. And all of a sudden, he said, oh, we got a ban. No, it's what's between the ears, right? It's just an object. Why are you punishing everybody else?

So it becomes illegal. Now this is illegal, right? Now with a pistol brace, if you still have it, now you are in violation. Are you going to start arresting people because now they have an NFA because it's supposed to be a short-barrow rifle or a short-barrel shotgun? If you put on your shotgun out, even though it was legal for years to do that, so now you spent $300, you're supposed to dispose of it. You're supposed to take it. Throw away to $300.

Now because, or try to get it registered, good luck to you because a lot of these chiefs are not approving it because you've got to get approved by the local authority in your area. Well, good luck with that. So, and at top of that, now sometimes it's a waiver. Sometimes say they don't, they may pay another $200 to get registered, SOT, special occupational tax. Come on, man.

I'm a retired ATF agent. I don't think that's right. And I think that was Biden's administration using ATF to do that. And that's my opinion. Obviously, the director now, Steve Dilbach doesn't believe that. But he's an attorney. He was never an agent. Right.

He was appointed. I mean, that's a politics. I give a little ATF politics there. I don't think it's right what happened there. Well, I definitely don't think it's right that you're telling me that one, I paid for something that when I bought it, it was legal. It was $300. Now you're saying I'm going to get in trouble Yeah, just throw it away

I'm throwing away $300 no Now if you have a buyback program You're going to give me my 300 bucks back They don't Yeah that's that's and that's just fucking Either you trash it You make it inoperable Or you have to go to the ATF office

And turn it over And so So this is my point Are we now going to make these people felons Is that right now Because they have an unregistered short bill a shotgun or rifle and SBRS? I don't think so. This is my opinion. This is a retired agent. I can say this now.

Now, if I was still an agent, I probably wouldn't be able to say this. I have to be honest with you. Because I'll be considered like a whistleblower, right? Even though I have said things before. And what happens to whistleblowers, they don't do so well. They get to end up being messed with. Just like happened when I brought up the problems with the other idiot, remember, with the H-2 and all the other stuff he was doing, I could transfer Miami. me. I was very happy in Tampa. I was working with big cases. My name's a tougher city. I did find there, but that's not where I wanted to be. I was going to say, did you ever see there was a TikTok video where an agent, I think it was an ATF agent comes, yeah, it was an ATF agent. It comes to this guy's door.

He's got some registered weapon. What? I've seen it. Yeah, where the guy goes, oh, hold on a second and calls the police and says, the guy here. He says he says he wants to see my guns. from Columbus you're talking the guy gets arrested yeah yes yeah that that was it to me one I well first of all yeah taste too yeah but here's the thing what killed me is this all you know all he had to do was comply yeah show the identification show the identification comply let them put them you know that's happened to me huh man that's happened to me oh oh really Let me hear, what happened?

And Brooksville. And the same thing, but the FFL didn't like the interview. So I'm always playing clothes. You know, we don't have a uniform. I'm always playing clothes, Jim. No, no, the FL, the FL, what? FFL didn't like the interview. What does that mean, FFL?

Federal Farm's Licensee. Oh, okay. The gun shop owner. All right. Yeah. So, and we do a lot of them. And a lot of time we're playing. And some of them really are nasty.

You know, you're like the one guy we talked about, I got two years. how dirty was some of them some of them are there's a lot of good ones and there's some some bad ones in there and uh I show my identification he's a liar he says that some guy claimed me an ATF agent calls the sheriff's office just interview me he's outside the parking lot so they come up and they say hey I need see your identification to the whole thing I heard you came in here I said no I did show it he said my back pocket was let me keep your hands up I said okay my hands are right here and it says where is your identification so one of the officers which behind and pulls it out of my back pocket now I

I don't want to be an ass and be stupid, so I'm going to comply. So they looked at it. They verified it and explained the whole situation. I saw his situation. He said, okay, keep your hands up. Let me see your identity. We'll see. So, yeah, you feel like you're being disrespected.

The ladies try and play a system. But at the same time, you're going to be outgunned here. You're going to be outplayed here because they're more than, and you're going to get tased and put down. And like he got, he got handcuffed thrown in the back of the mark unit. I mean, my head, he bumped his head on the whole nine yards. You know, look, here's what bothers me is that, like, to me, the cops showing up saying, you know, hey, you know, get out of the car, let me see your, you're, I don't feel like that's being disrespected.

I mean, to me, it's like, to me, I don't know why they're here. They don't really know what's going on. They're asking to see my ID. That's what I did. Absolutely. That's what I did. I comply. Yeah, exactly.

The problem was that guy, he immediately, you can just tell he's a dickhead, you know, hey don't i'm i'm a federal agent i'm hey look i'm sure you're a real badass bro but for right now put your fucking hands up yeah let me see your you know what i'm saying like you do what i tell you to do right now you don't know what the situation is so mouthing off what happens he ends up escalating his head suddenly he starts talking about a heart condition and everything's like i can't i can't breathe remember i can't breathe yeah stop it bro like nobody like nobody Like nobody cares about some guy who works at Walmart who's getting arrested if he's got a heart condition or he can't breathe or, you know, no, no, we're cuffing you, putting in the back of the car. You had a chance. I always love the people that the TikToks where the guys don't want to show their driver's license or something. Oh, I don't need a driver's license to drive. Yes, you do.

It's not going to go good. Like, I don't know which one of your idiot friends told you that was a thing, but it's not. no anytime they start disrespecting law enforcement and escalate it's you're going to lose yeah have you ever seen on the videos on the airplanes when people start getting confrontational with the stewardess and they get out of control and then they start yelling at the pilot that's not going to go good for you no this is this is not going to end well no no i mean there's so many karens and kevins out there have you ever seen all those karen videos yeah i love the cops show up and they're just like what are you doing yeah he can do that or you know oh he's videoing he's videoing in the street he's allowed to video in the street yeah or they go on these crazy rants for whatever reason and and they think

they're entitled and they can do and yell and do all these things if you haven't seen those videos folks take a look at them typing watching a Karen out of control yeah they're nuts they're absolutely nuts nuts and you can see a lot on the airplanes too that's um because they would turn the plane around which i've seen the videos they're going to land and guess just waiting for you the locals are yeah and it's going to get ugly and you see the videos it gets ugly listen i saw one the other day where the woman was escorted off the plane but but you know the pilot basically came out and said look you got to go but people are videoing and she gets upset they didn't call the police she just walks off the plane yelling and cussing and screaming

and as she walks off she screams i hope you guys crash burn and die and then and right then the pilot went oh hell no it he went after her. I have no doubt that she got, she got arrested, you know, or the police came and questioned her. Like, don't get cute. Don't start talking about bombs and terrorists and blowing up and dying. Angry. They get out of control. I don't know how people don't know how to be measured. But a lot of it, I go back to mental health issues because a lot of people are off their meds and you see it over and over again to get on these planes and they don't handle you don't handle orders.

They don't handle your rules. You're going to play. There are lots of rules. And you think you can't tell me what to do. And you touched me and I'm going to let you have it. Yeah, you can't touch me. You can't touch me. I'm a law enforcement officer.

I'm putting handcuffs on you. I'm going to touch you. You're done. They're done. And the stewardess can even take control of you if you're a danger to the plane. They wrap people. I've used in the picture. They get wrapped up and everything.

Oh, yeah, yeah. They wrap them up. I mean, okay. I have a question, have you ever met any sovereign citizens? I've heard of them. I don't think I met one personally. Unless maybe they were, they didn't tell me. Oh, listen, the jails are full of them.

Like, prison's full of them. Like, there's not full of them, but there's probably, I've met 30 of them. I actually have done an interview with this one guy who's a sovereign citizen. And I mean, they are so convincing. Like, obviously, I know he's insane. But they are so 100%. I love people that talk so convincing and confident about, well, no, about what they believe, but you know it's insanity. Like they're telling you like that the earth is flat or something.

And they have all these reasons why it's flat. And you're sitting there looking at him like, right. And the whole time I'm looking at him thinking, right, right. He's thinking he's convincing me. And I'm thinking, what went wrong chemically in your mind that has you believing that you don't have to pay? income tax that law enforcement has no authority no authority over you that you know like there's all these things in it and money doesn't exist um you know like they'll go on and on like right right and what's so funny about those guys is that um like i've never once ever in over a decade dealing

with these guys have ever seen a successful sovereign citizen. There are always some guy staying in somebody's spare room who can barely pay their bills who are, you know, they think they've got it all figured out. And yet you were the most one of the, you're, you're this close to being on the street. Yeah. You know, and they never, you never meet some guy living in a two million dollar house as a sovereign citizen like that. And if he does, it's because he's committing tax fraud and he's about to go to prison and be indicted and go to prison. Yeah, well, that's pretty much what's been out of control after Waco with Timothy McVeigh, right? Maybe he was the ultimate sovereign citizen.

And I wrote a book about McVeigh and the face of domestic, U.S. domestic turd. And in a sense, they're one step away being McVeigh, some of these sovereign citizens, right? Because they're anarchists. Yeah, well, kind of, yeah. They're not anarchists as much as they just think that nobody, that the United States laws don't apply to them, which doesn't mean that they want anarchy as much as it's them saying, no, no, I'm my own person. I'm in charge of myself. Your laws don't apply to me, which is insanity.

Yeah, that's insanity. You know, that's like, and I wrote a book about McVeigh and what's been out of Waco. I mean, you think about, you know, we talked a little bit of Jim Jones last time, right? Right. We talked about the Colts. And the French Divideans are a smaller version of the People's Temple, right? Instead of 900-something dying, it was 70-something dying in there, and the firing ending there. but and the events there

I'll talk about a little bit of McVe people who don't know Timothy McVeigh is McVeigh was he was a decorated U.S. war veteran in the Persian Gulf War very great if he would have been killed in the Persian Gulf War to liberate

Kuwait from Saddam Hussein he would have been a hero, a patriot right? But five years later from 1990 he becomes the worst domestic terrorist in U.S. history and it's fascinating to see his transformation I mean from he had issues of all reading

I do a lot of research and I read all stories and everything else. He was kind of when growing up become a loner. He was kind of an introvert, right? His grandfather taught him a lot about firearms. So he became a big firearms enthusiast. He became really into firearms. Great. That's why he joined the Army. He became decorated and all that. But he also got involved with some

anti-government white nationals. And his co-conspirators that he uses there, Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, were also from the Army. All these guys who committed this act were Army veterans who come in and get together and commit this act against other Americans in the name

of a tyrannical regime? Didn't he they catch him? Didn't he also have a copy of the Turner Diaries? He was also pumping that crap. He gets brainwashed with that garbage because he starts, before he does all this stuff before Waco, he does a tour

on the gun show. I met a lot of people in the gunshill circuit. They're good people, there's some bad ones. And he said the farther west he went, because reading when he was he said the crazier or the more extremists they were, the more anti-government they were. And those who don't know what the Turner Diaries are, it's about this anti-government group, white nationalist group that bombs, use a truck bomb to hit FBI headquarters and take it up, take it out. Well, he copies it.

And instead of FBI headquarters, he goes after, he doesn't like ATF. He goes after ATF in other federal agencies in Oklahoma, but he parks it. And I'll get there. He parks in front of daycare, right? And he later calls it collateral damage in his revolution. He killed me, the little babies and all that. Was it 20 or 30 of them? something like that horrible stuff man hard the federal agency the office was was empty that

day ATF yeah ATF agents come in later because we work later all hours right we're not nine to five guys we're guys that work late so but he killed a lot of agents so I think I remember it's in my book the numbers I put in there I think IRS and DEA and other ones but he was anti-government he originally won instead of he he he thought and what he said later was that he got his most bang for his buck with a truck bomb because he also wanted to assassinate agents he also wanted to assassinate judges he also wanted to kill politicians so he really went he snapped he went okay so then why is he driving around with a in a vehicle with no tag on it yeah like then his and his own idea guys planned things but at the end he had fought it was an Oklahoma state

prooper that pulled them over with no tag at the end like what an it like like like all of the things that he did and put together. Like, I mean, remove, you know, remove the morality of the entire situation. The fact is the, the planning was, it was well planned. And then you have no escape strategy. Like, you have no, like, it just completely, like, listen, to me, it's like robbing a bank. Like, you could plan all the things. But if you can't figure out how to get out of that bank and get away scot free, all that plan, it doesn't mean anybody. You could have gone in with a note you know like it's so the idea that he planned that whole thing um and then gets caught on such a stupid you know little little technicality or a little glitch over by the trooper

he gets arrested enough for that he gets arrested because he had a concealed weapon he had a 45 glock in his waistband he had it in case the second fuse wouldn't go he was going to activate himself he was going to shoot it and so he was going to die in the truck with it but he was going to have an explosion no matter what he was going to initiate the charges of himself of the second fuse. He parked that car there two days earlier, but he had a car there, like he said, these guys were poor.

They stole a lot to make this happen. I mean, it's unbelievable the stuff he had to pull off to get this done. It took him like a year and a half to get it going. Did you see the interview on him where he talks about where they said, what was the first thing you thought of when you looked over and he said, I was disappointed because I really thought I was going to bring the whole building down. Yeah, he's sick. this first thought was didn't have enough

I didn't have enough info ammonium nitro fertilizer and he had over 5,000 pounds that building almost completely down that that the chunk out of that thing was the that explosion must have been yeah it was 30 foot wide crater eight foot deep that's impressive that's impressive uh and he took him down and uh and of course he will become the first federal prisoner executed 38 years. President Bush signed off it in June 11, 2001, and became before 9-11. And obviously, yeah, he was okay with it, though, too. He didn't fight it. At the end, he didn't care. Do you want to live like that anymore? You want to, Terry Nichol, I thought the co-conspirator helped him get the other explosives who knew about this.

He should have been executed also. He went to a state trial in Oklahoma, convicted of 168 counts of murder, but the jury was deadlocked on the death penalty. how did he get caught uh i guess with uh all the evidence they had and putting the case together the van didn't he rent the van he was part i know he was part with the rental he's part of the conspiracy with explosives and he had other stuff also different storages and locations uh and so they put the case together with him so he went down uh michael fortier also helped his wife also helped mcvay put fake IDs but she was given immunity

and he is now in witness protection program. He was out already, Michael 40, so he's out and about witness protection. So we have him, but he testified against both these guys. So those are interesting things about extremism, how it happens, what triggered him. I mean, what triggered McVeigh at the end? He was at Waco, and he was there during the siege, the 51-day siege. People who know what Waco is. They interviewed him.

Yeah, they interviewed him. Yeah. Yeah. He was selling bumper stickers. I can't make the stuff up. That's why I love nonfiction. I know. It's funny because when I talk to these guys and research stuff,

I mean, I am constantly telling myself that, I mean, I know it's a cliche, you know, that truth is stranger than fiction. But I mean, there's stuff that I'm just like, I never could have come up with this. If I to just imagine it, like some of the things that people say and things that happened. It's like, this is insane. Isn't it bone chilling to watch him be interviewed there at Waco

where you know what he's going to do two years later on the anniversary of Oklahoma? We just had the anniversary, the 30-year anniversary of Waco and the 20-year anniversary of Oklahoma. That's the reason what inspired me and write all the stuff and get involved. He thought, man, we have four agents that were killed at, you know,

and like I said, like with Jim Jones, with Koresh, they cooperated. We talked about the agent. Why didn't he cooperate? Well, if you cooperate with the investigation, you get your time in court. Your time in court is not to open up on the agents when they come in the search warrant and say, and people don't know this, they were tipped off about agents coming in because a local reporter got information and he went to a letter carrier and said, hey, where is this Mount Caramel? Well, the rim is on. He got lost.

I heard ATF is going to hit a search warrant. I'm covering it. Have they hit it ready? Well, that was his brother-in-law. And he tells him what's going on. hey, I just as a reporter, ATF's coming. So rather than being sleeping and not prepared for it, they're all prepared and armed.

And it's an all-out war. And four agents are murdered because of it. So those events later trigger. And then if Koresh really wanted to let those kids out, he showed let the kids out. Because the listening device the FBI had over there, and when they're coming, after 51 days, they had enough of this. They want to get the kids out.

They hear them saying, hey, they're coming. Let's set the fire on. It wasn't the FBI, the feds that set the fire. He did. He started the fire. And that's out there also. So these events that said the government did this, why not cooperate? You're the ones that triggered all this problems.

You know what I'm saying? We have a legal search warrant. You're illegally having firearms here. He also was having sex with minors. He was doing other things, right? You know, he had some weird rules there where, you know, if you came as a couple, he was the only one that could have sex with your wife. Yeah.

He did unbelievable stuff. All these cult leaders, once they get a little bit of power, you know, they all get weird and almost immediately they get power, you know, power, well, you know, absolute power corrupts, you know, absolutely. And even if these guys initially, maybe they had aspirations of coming up with some kind of a church or something. Maybe they had, you know, good aspirations very quickly, it tends to go right. The moment they get absolute power, they immediately get nuts. Yeah. I think we talked a little about Jim Jones before People's Temple, but if Jim Jones in the 50s, let's say 60s before he got really out of control, because he was a civil rights leader in some sense integrating the churches, integrating a lot of different things. He was the first, him and his wife were the first couple to adapt a black child in Indiana. I mean, they did a lot of things. He would die in a car accident. He probably been a civil rights hero, right? Instead he becomes a monster in 1978 for what happens in Jones Town. So people. people snap people change david koresh was a good guy i think at the beginning and then he changed and i think he became this monster like like you see these guys he should let those children go

there's no need to set the fires there's no need to have done all that but at the end this is what goes on because his ego is and not of these guys they believe the followers are their property right and we're all going down with it this is my world it's all mine so mother mother please remember that yeah yeah yeah mother please listen listening to that um listening to that tape of uh jim jones when everybody's being poisoned sickening it is is it's it is it is it is bone chilling like this this is insanity you can hear the people crying and i i don't know if i told you how what i felt it's in my book about how i felt about leo ryan the congressman going out there how do you go out there not being armed not having security force not having the

government with you did you think guy's ultra paranoid you know he's all he has weapons because they're telling you what's going on right and how i think they're not protected so i thought about that and i think and i notice this a lot of times is that if you're if you've been raised in a non violent um environment and you've been surrounded by it you see somehow, and especially if you suddenly become, get to like a position of power yourself, you start thinking that you're somehow or another shielded from violence. Like you don't think anything bad's going to happen to you because you've never been a part of it. You've heard about it, but you've never seen it.

And when he went out there, he's really just being told that we're not being allowed to leave. So he may not be thinking that there, maybe he's not thinking that he's in danger. He's going to go out. He's going to see what happens. Going to have a conversation. He's going to leave. probably not thinking that Jones is insane as insane as he clearly was. You probably didn't think there was that much risk. I don't know. While I was reading is that he saw the affidavits.

He read the report on a local paper out there in San Francisco. He knew these guys were doing these horrible things in these medical units, right? People who wanted to leave and cause problems, they were taking special treatment in the medical camp, the medical unit, and they're injected with a coma-inducing medication and forced to become sex slaves, right? You're a problem. We're going to, we're going to use you. It's a Jones town? Yeah, Jones Town, yeah.

Oh, I didn't realize that I haven't heard this. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, it's in the reports is all in there. He knew that because he had the, a lot of people, some people were able to escape and they gave sworn affidavits, right? I read the affidavits. They gave sworn affidavits what happened. He knows all this because he's even trying to figure out, he even tries to get Dan Quail was a representative to come with him from Indiana because quails from

Indiana listen this he tried gets quail go with him and others not that bullet yeah he didn't know nobody wanted to go no one wanted to go because they thought this guy was dangerous and crazy so this is another issue a lot of people already told them this is dangerous be careful going down there and he thought he was safe because he took NBC news with him the Washington Post hey I'm taking these were some of the biggest names in NBC at the time remember that these are big names in NBC who going out there like the Brian Williams of their time right and he's going down there dude he cleans house and everybody no one no one gets out of that that thing alive so the cameraman's

last action you saw the video was filming them shooting his his gung squad shooting at them at the plane that's his last thing he does out there but he he knew how how dangerous so in this medical tent medical unit he would put coma inducing medication enslaved people put in hot boxes if you were a problem make you so big you're guy in it you're in the jungle you're in South Africa. He would find boa constrictors, tie you up, and wrap it around your neck when I was reading to squeeze the life out of it. I mean, he was doing some really bad things to these people. He was an ultra-communist. He had become a Marxist-Leninist hardcore. He even went to Visifido Castro in Cuba and Havana and talked about, because he was a mire of Castro. He was a mire of Stalin. He was a mire of Lenin. He even has Soviet officials come because he were creating a Soviet-Marxist utopia, is what he created. there. And he was right. Everybody gets a little bowl of rice, like Mao Zitong. Here's your bowl of rice. But they ate well. His command staff ate well. They had meats. They had everything else. But the people had to put 12 hour days in on the land.

And he used him as slaves. And these were disenfranchised people, mostly African blacks, that he brought from Northern California. And they went from one hell to another, an inferno. They'll cost them everything and their children. I see I just thought that there were families that were saying that their family members weren't communicating with them they were in Guyana they were being and they felt they were being held against their will maybe they got in the letter like that I didn't know that there was there was something escaped and wrote affidavits that he was aware he knew they had weapons he knew that they were doing mock drills to prepare for this mass suicide because he had a preparing mock drills he would have white night drills Well, he said the government's coming, and he would have the guy shoot above their heads for the followers, and they'd crowd on the floor to keep fear instilling them. He knew what he was getting himself into. I think that was a madman like that to approach him like that, and then all of a sudden, everybody wants to leave.

He's not going to have that. Remember they all said, I want to leave? They'll start giving people notes. You want to get out of here. Yeah. And then the video, the one guy tried to stab him. Remember that one? One guy tries to stab him, and then the reporter says, we've got to get out of here.

This is getting out of control. And all of a sudden, that's when they follow them. two of the tarmac there in the plains and they kill him. And his, if you haven't read the book, you haven't seen their interview, Jackie Speer does a great interview. She survived.

She was an assistant. She plays dead for 24 hours, taking five rounds in, and lays in a tarmac for 24 hours, playing dead until the army of Guyana comes in and she saved. They thought they had killed her. And she placed dead. You haven't seen Jackie Spears interview.

Listen to that and what she says. She had later become the congresswoman in his district years later. Yeah, good stuff. All right. That's good. Yeah, I did not. Hey, with me, you get true crime. You get all dimensions with me, and I can talk all day off.

No way is you getting monetized. So I will let you know if it does. And we don't even do politics. We just did true crime. No. I can have more fun with politics, too, if you wanted. That's another time. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. And you can see my poster behind me here, ATF undercover. You liked it? Thumbs up? Yeah, that's the book. Yeah, I'm not done yet. But yeah, it was good. Good.

It was good. I appreciate that. Yeah, definitely. I'm trying to think, we'll put the description. We'll put the link. Is that the only one that's on Audible? I'm working with Sean, ma'am. He's a busy guy.

So you're getting the other ones on Audible? I'm trying to pull a lot of them on Audible. Yeah. It's a lot of work. It's for him, especially. I did the writing already, but I'm always cranking morale. I would like to put psycho killers out there on all because I think people really, it's scary. And I think people need to know how dangerous serial killers are everywhere.

I think people don't understand how prolific they are. I heard the other day that the average person comes in or crosses the path of something like, was it like three to six, three or it was like three or six? psychopaths a day that they actually come into contact with and don't even know it don't even know it i don't know if that number is correct i don't know how you figure that number out but but there's many of those are jekyll and hide that's for sure they can have a normal life and a night they transform themselves into the sociopath psychopath psychopath which they have no consideration for life they don't care they don't care about life existence and what's sad is a lot of them prey on young children and that's heartbreaking that that really is because they never had a life and they die horrible ways

which is and that's why people have to be stranger danger be aware of your environment and don't trust anybody you don't really know i mean bundy was really good at this remember i don't know you saw the documentary in bundy yeah he was super charming no everybody said he was charming everybody said he's charm how about he he has the crutches right he always has the books and he has the young lady take you please help me to the car and second they help him the car boom gets thumped in the head and that he knew how to kill people quietly and all these guys learned that quickly. He's not about shooting someone, making noise or stabbing where this could be yelling and screaming. You thump him in the head

and then they break their neck or they do whatever and that's it. Quiet, like a chicken, right? Quietly, done. And then he does bad things later. And those are more things that they would do. If you're interested in that, look into it, you see my book but I can really describe more

of the stuff that he does afterwards, which is unbelievable. I'm not going to read that. So, but I hear you, I'm not, I'm not, but I hear you. But if you like that kind of stuff, read it. You know, how did you become an ATF? Hey, was it something you were always interested in, that sort of thing, you know? Where were you born?

Yeah, yeah, I was born in Los Angeles, in California, but raised in South Florida in Miami. And, you know, I've always had some interests in law enforcement, obviously. You know, you grew up in the same times. I was born in the 70s. and I grew up when I was younger in the 80s with Miami Vice, right? And I'm in South Florida, right? How cool you're seeing Don Johnson, you know, you're watching the cool cars of Ferraris, right? You're thinking, man, that is pretty cool.

So that always was, you know, I was in the back of your head and you're looking at that, but never thought I would ever do that kind of work, really. I kind of, you know, thought it was cool and I like the guns, I like the training. I like putting out of these bad guys and the cocaine cabboys were huge back in the 80s. well years later you know go to college i went actually up not far from where you're at up to st leave university it's a catholic university and i get my degree in political science and in history then i come back to f i u in miami so now we're looking about the mid-90s and uh i get i'm working my degree international relations and i was doing a law school i accepted to a law school in

lansing michigan thomas coolly and you know the farthest thing in my head but and i'm seeing the prices how expensive law school is and this is mid-90s a lot more now obviously but even in the mid-90s and i didn't have a i had a scholarship in college i played tennis or number one for my school but it was going to cost me about like about 30,000 a year right 30,000 a year three years at least you have housing you get your loans for all that stuff and i'm thinking and i know how competitive is law school and some people are saying that that's a lot of money but i already have my degree very athletic I was shooting. My dad taught me how to shoot early in life. We'll go to the range. My dad was a gun. So I'm copped with a firearm, right? I'm athletic. And I'm thinking, wow, and I noticed Internet just started, right? This is 1995. Windows came out. And I didn't use it in college, but I said, man, this is the future, right? So I got myself a computer and I taught myself because this is people that said, what are you doing? What's emailing? What do you do? I got myself a Yahoo account, people are prodigy, right? People had no idea.

what the stuff what dial up what are you doing and it's like well this is the future and people like no I don't think this is going to last I think no I think this is going to be like I was one of those guys I was like this is the kind of catch on this is people are not going to spend their time online what what are you talking about and I was like oh no I think you well especially when I saw everybody pumping especially get government jobs you that's why I want so when USA that's one of the reason I went on there because USA jobs was available to look at was opening and I was interested in going with customs so I applied for customs They were looking for Spanish speakers, which I grew up Miami.

My parents are Spanish-Cuban. They came, grandparents from Spain went to Cuba. And after the Castro Revolution, they came to the United States. And they lost everything. And they have my family that started over again. And I'm fortunate enough to be in this great country and done quite well within one generation. The wealth they lost in Cuba, I've done quite well in this country. And it's a very fortunate, great nation that we live in.

And I talk about that in my books also. So I work on that, and I put in there, and so they need people because in Miami, in Miami International Airport, most of the flights, 85% of them come from Latin America, right? So they want the customs officials to be able to engage and speak Spanish because it's easier to cast people who are mules or smuggling drugs. You have to know what you're dealing with. And I grew up Miami, so I grew up with all the different cultures from South America, from Latin America, from Mexico, a lot of my friends. So I knew all that, and I spoke Spanish. put in for the jobs, right? And I got it pretty quickly with customs. So that was something where I was going to law school and I said, and I said, this is better because now I'm making

quite a good money. I'm going to have a good pension, right? I'm in law enforcement, and I really enjoy, it is satisfying what the kind of work I'll start doing. So you start there at the airport, you get your cut your teeth into like password processing, and then I make one of their lead teams with customs called a contraband enforcement team. And at the time of the 90s, In Miami, South Florida is making some of the biggest seizures in the country, right? You know, you still have the CaliCartel, you still have the Medellin cartel, and they're still pumping a lot of drugs. And I don't like what the Mexicans are going to do when they take over.

They're doing it the schoolway with cargo, they're doing with ships. They're doing with the Florida and the Caribbean. And that's how they're getting it through to, especially in Florida. So it wasn't uncommon, you know, after you on the job, you know, I was saying, or you're saying back then that's how they're doing it, Or you're saying that's how they're doing it now. No, no, back then, back then. The Medellian and Cali, all those guys have collapsed,

and now the Mexicans. And I've written books about how strong they've got. And they're almost more powerful than the Columbus ever wore. You know, you talk about El Chapo, the El Menthal's, and I'll go into that also how strong they've become and how they've changed the game completely and how we have to change. You know, and I've written about that, too, of my experiences. So I get in there, and so, you know, I'm now in the middle of the drug war.

You know, I'm the front line. with customs. So what do you do, I mean, what does that detail consist of? Yeah. So Miami has a ton of cargo that comes in through Latin America, right? And also passengers, a lot of it coming in. And my job, and the border, you know, border authority is everything that comes to international is subject to search, right?

I don't need probable cause like I would later when I became an agent, which is a complete different game. So it was a lot easier to make seizures and make arrests because when you come in, you at your questions, people can be searched, and you figure out what's going on right there. And with cargo side, it's everything comes in, and especially from Latin America, transatlantic country, it wasn't uncommon for me to see, we're going to seize 850 pounds of cocaine that was coming in a group of fish that was coming from Guaiquet, Colombian drugs, going to Columbia, and be going to Ecuador and then be shipped because within five, six hours, it's in

Miami. And the corruption was really bad in South Florida, right? At the airport, you had, the rap workers were dirty. You had the longshoremen were dirty. You had a ton of corruption. The money's overwhelming. And that stuff was never going to go where it's supposed to go. It gets ripped off, right? It has the bill lading, right, where it's supposed to go. But those stuff never go. When you got that kind of fish, when you look inside this major grouper, you get a kilo Coke next to a block of ice. That stuff was going to get taken out. And that was not uncommon to see 600, 800 pounds coming in and get ripped off. And that's what we got. So what does I tell you, the stuff that got in? Yeah, what's not getting caught? A lot. A lot. And they knew that was the quickest way to get it in because the demand back in the 80s and 90s, and still today, unfortunately, is enormous for cocaine.

I always said the way to stop the cartels, if people stop using the stuff, right? If people got the treatment, the cartels are out of the drug gate, right? It's over. That's it. Yeah. We win the war on drugs. The way we win the war on drugs and what you audience to know is from within. from within. But a lot of these bad countries are weaponizing cocaine, especially the Nicholas

Madurals from Venezuela, right? You've got the country who are really enemies, or communist enemies, and they're selling cocaine because they know that does damage to our country, the workforce, the people, their future, and everything else. Cuba, was it, Castro said it was the, he said the pink menace, or he said that was the best way to undermine the United States was through the importation of drugs? Yeah, Hugo Chavez For Venezuela He used to do that

Oh, he died Yeah, for Venezuela Cuba saw but Castro did not want to be called a trafficker, right? Because he saw what happened to Noriega, right? Back in the late 80s, Madone Noriega,

when he got involved in the U.S. end up invading and bring him over. The former president of Honduras, Hernandez, he was a big-time drug trafficker. He just got extradited to the United States. Maduro has been indicted. So I thought I had read

something about Cuba like Castro wasn't like involved in it but he was allowing for short for a period of time he like allowed planes to land or fly through by through air airspace and then he caught up with him and then he was like okay we're done with that yeah yeah he didn't want to get caught up with that but he would tolerate some things but not on the aisle is because he didn't want give the United States a chance to break him in because it happens to world leaders all over they get involved in the drug game it's a conspiracy against us in the United States States, and we've had the case law, and we extraded these guys and bring him over. And El Chapo is a perfect example of what happened to him when he finally got extradited,

and now he is in the Supermax in Florence, Colorado. And he was a very, very powerful guy, and not so much. So I'm in kind of that, fascinating view, front line, right? I'm meeting a lot of people because we make a lot of seizures. So I'm networking with the FBI. I'm networking with ATF, especially DEA, customs. at a time we're Department of Treasury and after 9-11

everything changes right everybody changes ATF will end up going to justice customs will go Department of Homeland Security it would leave Treasury so a lot of things change we're making a lot of good seizures

once that were kind of strange were like people who would swallow like the pellets the swallowers we would get a ton of that I mean it is really I mean we got a lot but a lot also got

through and it's really sad because some of these people were peasants right they would get used or they say if you don't do it and these are the cartels they go in these villages right and they pretty much forced these guys to do it or they're they got hurt your family kill the family some got paid i mean i found it the guys who went let's say if you were from you know miami or you were from puerto rico and you end up flying to uh you know collie or something like that you said three four days like uh why are you there what was your purpose of your trip right and the purpose of triples to swallow all these pellets and I got really good at it

I mean you could easily have two or three pounds of cocaine in you or heroin heroin really start picking up in the 90s with the Colombians right and that's that's a lot of money a lot of dope in there but the problem with that

is something if it leaks you're a big plane it's so pure you're not going to survive so we get calls a lot of people are dead on arrival they're on the planes we got clear them up it's not easy to pass either So if you can't pass the stuff fast enough

Even when we catch them We would have to take them to the hospital MIA and give them these laxatives And it still takes a while to pass it These cartel members If you make it and you're in one of these hotels Which happens all the time You can't pass the stuff fast enough

They put a bull in your head They'll gut you And they take the stuff out So a lot of times They were lucky that we caught them Because it was not a good stuff for them And even then sometimes they still need surgery It stuff wouldn't come out

I mean, it's, it's really, it's risky, it's sad, it's horrible to see its people. And this is something I'm seeing firsthand, you know, a guy who almost has said, man, this is the war on drugs, this is how it looks like. This is what's going on. It becomes normal and natural. You feel bad because people are being used, right? And there's much, it's much sexier from, from Don Johnson's point of view. For the Don Johnson point of view, it's much sexier. He's got the Ferrari.

You got the Ferrari, which is cool. He folds up. Remember, we would fold up the suit. Do you remember the jacket? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, the cool colors, right? Yeah. So far, your version of it sucks.

The version is work. Right. That, yeah, yeah. A lot of work. That's true. Is that glamorous? But you're satisfied, at least you're stopping that from going to somebody else that's going to maybe hurt their life, that part there.

So you see a lot of that. Miami, it's just a ton of that. You'll put it in the stems of flowers. I mean, talk about the detail of work, right? They'll howl them out and fill them all up. That's impossible. I mean, it's really hard unless we had intelligence or a great dog to really hit that because the x-rays are hard to reach.

So they would do crazy ways you could imagine to smuggle stuff in. They would hollow out tiles, you know, for roofing. I put a kilo in each one. I wrote a story about a guy that's what they did. They had the concrete. Yeah. Allots and concrete tiles that they were. Yes.

Both them in and came in with. palates. Yes. That's a level of corruption because that's not really going to where it's supposed to go. That's going to get ripped off. And it's going to other places. So that's how corrupt it was in 80s and 90s and beyond. And things have changed now. And I'll talk about that. What happens that collapse, you know, Escobar was killed, the collapse of the Midian and Cali cartels. And then the Mexican cartels stepping up and working with the FARC, which is now changed. Even they change now. And now they have a different name. And they're working with them. They're bringing the Coke to them, and Mexico takes care of all distribution.

They handle from there on. They take it all. They don't have to worry about that. You just make it, we take care of it. We go into Colombia, so the Mexicans pretty much are running Colombia in Central America. They're not just in Mexico. They're all over the region. And then, of course, in top of that, you have the collapse with the communism and socialism that's taken over the region, which really paralyzes the whole country.

That's why we really have to keep an eye on what's going on in there. So I made a lot of contacts, and I said, you know what? this is cool. I don't mind doing this kind of work, but I wouldn't mind so they dealt with a lot of agents, investigators, to take it to a next level, which is what you do as an agent. I'm not stuck to the airport now. As an agent, I get to go all over the country all over the world, right? Make my cases, but I don't have a problem cause and stuff like that. So I network a lot with FBI, ATF, D-EA, and Customs.

You know, it makes sense as I was ready with Customs. I would just go over as an agent, right? since I worked a lot with these guys, but they didn't want to give up a lot of their inspectors because they know it's hard to fill those positions. So they didn't want to hire. So I had to go with other agencies and put in for them because it's not fair to me.

I wanted to be an agent. I wanted to be an investigator. I want to do other things. So eventually ATF was the fastest one to pick me up. You know, within that time within Department of Treasury, I get picked up with them. And then a year later, at 2000, I get picked up as an ATF agent and more in Tampa, Florida.

Nice. For clear, for clarity. purposes so here's what you know because just this is what I I understand so and I only understand this because I've written several stories I wrote a story called a American narco and and so it so you're saying like right as a custom agent like you find this you find the drugs and you're like okay then you're notifying somebody else because and then they're setting that trying to either follow that that you know the that that drug shipment and bust the guys is that it?

because let me give a good example. The story I wrote, they had shipped in marijuana in these tiles and they allowed the shipment like they picked, they delivered the shipment and these guys loaded it into their warehouse

sat it there for like a week and there was a tracking device inside the thing and so they start unpacking the whole thing and suddenly there's this black box with a little light on it and these wires and they're like like oh shit they throw it they run you know but of course by that point they're pulling up and they the gig is up yeah they bust them like two days later they come and raid their house or

something their houses and stuff but so at this point with customs you're just saying hey here's what we found and they're doing the rest of that you wanted to actually be the guy to go the next level right okay yeah well i just got terrifying what the next level is yeah because they're customs inspectors right that's the term i think it's changed now but the term used to be customs inspectors we had arrest authority and you did everything else and then there's the agents the criminal investigators

that go and you give them hey I just had this huge seizure right now with this fish right 850 pounds all right we can sometimes help set up surveillance within the airport

right close to the airport the warehouse but if it's going let's say to New York City right well they're taking it from there yeah

they're there we're not going in New York City I got to stay and do my job and do the next shift and get some more dope that's coming in because you know what it doesn't stop.

They knew if they, they factor those losses in because that's part of doing business with the Colombian cartels. They just, they just keep on bringing it in. Okay, hey, they got this one. Guess what we just got $4,000 in?

And that doesn't that? It's good. So I wish to we picked up with AETM. You don't know, right? You take a chance. Sometimes they may say to Southwest border. Sometimes you might have to go to New York City or a big city where it's really expensive. I got fortunate enough I stayed

in Florida. I went school like I said, St. Louis University up just north of Tampa in where you are, Pascoe County. And I started working from there. And I was fortunate at the group I started a lot of guys worked undercover because you can't just go into undercover work cold like that, right? If you do that, you're going to get hurt right. I mean, you can watch all the Miami Vice you want and watch all the TV shows and Donnie Brasco. And that was also very popular back in the in the 90s, remember Donnie Brasco with Al Pacino and Johnny Depp? Yeah, you watch all this stuff, but it's one thing on television, right? Like you said, and one thing, the real world.

And the real world is you've got to know how they can be. Like I said, I grew up in Catholic schools, right? And now I have to learn this world. I learned a little bit for the drug world, which is fascinating. But now I've got to work face-to-face undercover where I pretend to be like these guys and how to fool some of these guys who are hardened professional criminals. That's all they do and make them think I'm one of them. Did I'm nothing like it?

I was going to say, which is, you know, like you said, you watch it on TV and people think, oh, I could do that. No, you can't. They spot you in a second. I used to joke around, you know, with the guys in prison. Like, you know, they just be walking and they see me and they say, hey, Cox, what's up? And I go, I can't call it. And they just start laughing. They go, stop.

I go, what do you talk? I did that good. They go, no, it's even worse when you do it. They're like, they're like, you're not even close. You can't come close to pulling out. And you can't. You just can't fake that. You know, it's hard.

It's a real, you really have to become an actor to be able to fake. That's true. To be able to fake that. You have to be good at it. It takes time. It takes time. You got to practice it. And it takes years.

So I had good mentors, right? I watch a lot. And you develop your own technique, right? You watch this guys. I spoke Spanish, so that was an advantage. I make sure my English was broken. I didn't sound like that. I just came back a cool year's on you, right?

Right. So you have to call up, I let my hair really long. I think I've seen you some pictures. I don't know if you saw them yet. I haven't seen him yet. Yeah, I haven't seen them yet. I'll check them out. All right.

I say some pictures, my hair was long, had a big beard. I didn't want to get all the tats. Some guys said because when I got out of it, I knew I'll be done with it. Right. I want to go back to who I was. I don't want to be, say,

oh, great, I got this now. People are saying, what the heck's wrong with this? So that was never me. I never really cared for it. That wasn't my thing. So I wanted to think enough, the beard's okay, the hair was long enough. You do the accents. You get to know the culture, get into all these guys.

It was easier to deal with people. If they were not Spanish speakers, you tell your story, what you're working with. You say, hey, these families are looking, the cartels are looking for guns, right? Because they are. And my job here is to be safe ATF, is to buy a lot of guns. And these guys, I don't want to find any paperwork, right? Because I don't want to show up in those shop. You put my information in there, right?

So these guys will sell me guns off the street, untraceables. And you pay a premium for that because that's what you want. And a lot of these guys have horrific criminal histories. So I dealt a lot with repeat violent offenders. I dealt a lot with gang members, armed drug traffickers, international firearms traffickers, domestic firearms traffickers. I dealt with armed home invaders, a case for murder for hires. So that was ATF's niche.

What does ATF do? Alcohol, tobacco, firearms, well, it's a small A, for alcohol, a small tea for tobacco, a huge F and immediate E for explosives. So we do a lot of gun cases. You know, let's say a lot of gun. And that's what ATF is. And so I found that fascinating. And I knew something about guns, but man, I became an expert on pretty much a gun control

act, NFA National Fire Act, and all the different weapons from machine guns, silencers, pipe bombs. You know, ATF someplace called the whole training, ATF stands for all the fun because we would do lot of shooting. I mean, I trained in handguns from pistols, revolvers, my M4, which is a short barrel rifle, right? I had shotguns. Yeah, something short barrel shotguns also we were shooting. So we train a lot of different weapons. And then we also went familiarized in case to come across different machine guns. We know what we're doing, right? Got to make sure and check all that stuff out. So that's what we did, AT up. And it's something that's early enough, you have to cut your teeth. You know, one of the guys have worked with, he was Puerto Rican.

And he was involved back in the 80s in a shootout where he had a sick 9 millimeter. The bad guy had a sick 9 millimeter. He fired the round, and his round went into his gun and plugged the barrel. So he's like this, and the run goes like this. It's like one in a million. Damn, and Hyaliyah back in the 80s. So it can get ugly and wild, so we had a good time. We had some good stories, and I learned a lot from him, and he had been Puerto Rican,

and I saw how he tackled things and all that. I developed my own style. We worked a lot together, and then I grew up. And then you know what also helps having good informants? You have a good informant, which way I developed a lot of these guys, they can pretty much, you walk on water, it's that goal. You say, hey, he vouchers for you. There's no more questions.

It's just do business. He said, you're the guy. Okay, man, this is what you want. No question is asked. And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And this is what these guys do. But if you have a bad informant who's playing both sides, it will destroy your investigation.

You have to have them accountable. So you really, and once you, that's why I like to, once I have the introduction, I cut them out. Yeah. And I want to do with a drama, with an informant. They can ruin your case. I put too much hard work because ATF is a very smaller outfit than the FBI or DEA, right? We have less than 3,000 agents, I think 2,800, right? FBI has four times that, enormous size.

So we just can't delegate, hey, I need you to do. do surveillance. I need you to do undercover. I'm the case. I do everything. I'm the undercover. I'm the case agent, right? I deal with property. I deal with my own intelligence workup. I wear all the different hats because you have to because we're a smaller outfit. If you want to do the bigger cases. Now, if you want small, you don't do that. Right. I was going to say the informant thing. I'm researching a story right now. It's like it's funny, you know, you do all the incident reports. You you read through the incident reports and the first thing they do like literally obviously this guy got busted you know he got he got he got busted i think he got no he got busted for i think it was

for a gun actually and then he goes and he makes them they they have him make a a couple of meth buys you know and just he's just wired like he's just wired they're just control buys then they have him eventually introduce you know his his boss which is the undercover then the undercover goes with him on a couple of buys sure and just the undercover buys and then they they cut the informant out and you know and to me like having been in prison I realize that the problem is like if you're a whole you can't let him keep buying you can't let the the um informant keep buying because first of all he's unreliable he's got a record and then what happens if he gets busted for something else you know you can you

You can't put him on the stand like it was since then. You've been busted for this and this. And he has a huge incentive to lie and the agent doesn't. So, you know, you want to be on the stand. You want it to be the agent. That's right. The clean jacket. He introduced me.

Here's what I did. I bought a kilo over the course of the next month. Yeah. That's the best way to do it. You have to because, and unfortunately, some of these guys have drug addictions, right? Yeah. And they keep on doing stuff. They get messed up.

and they don't they're not right where they're high right and and they do stupid things so those are the factors you got to get into that's why i was fortunate some people don't want to do undercover work now for everybody i just i i liked it i really decided i i kind of like playing the role i like and i deal with all kinds of people i just told you about the variety but also the variety of people from different Hispanic groups different blacks uh different uh other european groups right A variety, a variety of people. Because it worked and what I was doing. It makes sense.

It's based on what's really going on. The cartels have people. They need guns, right? And by the way, not only buying the guns, but I also, like, selling some drugs on the side, what else do you have for personal or for other use? So I buy doping guns. Sometimes you come across some other stuff. Hey, I have also some body armory. Looking for the body.

Yeah, I'll take some ballistic armor. It's amazing what people start telling you and what they do and what else it leads to. I'm also doing this too. Hey, this guy is also into explosives or into this. Oh, hey, this guy's selling all cigarettes without tax stamps. You know, we do those cases too, a lot less. But, yeah, we do all that stuff. So it really opens up when people talk and they feel confident with you,

you get a lot of your friends. And I had everything, like I said, for trial purposes, I want to make it like a movie, right? I wanted the jury to feel comfortable. First of all, I had to make the prosecutor for comfortable. And once he feels comfortable, they're the jury. you hear that yes can you hold on a second I'm sorry

I don't even know what that is but here's the funny thing about it since I'm speaking with you is my wife's ex-boyfriend was arrested for he had a dispute with a guy over I'm pretty sure I think it was drugs

or something and he made a bomb. Oh no. And left it for the guy. It didn't go off. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. But he ended up going to jail for it. And like he's on like the no fly list. And so every time

I get a package and I walk out, my first thought when I see the package is, yeah, what too? Please let this guy. Please let this really be from Amazon and I keep you know it's so funny gosh sometimes I get deliveries it's like it's just it's just there and I always I'll I don't unwrap it my girlfriend comes and I'm like you're unlocking it you're you're opening that it's it's not a comfort a lot of people get into making these

pipe bombs right and they tighten them up in there but it's also very dangerous if you don't know how you do it right they count something with the flit too early and explode so they have damage it's it's very volatile I actually had a I actually had a friend that was making a pipe bomb when he was like 15, 16 years old, and it exploded, blew his hands off, the shrapnel, like he bled out within a minute. Oh, no. But, but he, he died and, you know, just a kid, just being stupid, you know, thought it was cool, had made a couple small ones and just playing, never once thinking to himself like, hey, this could be it. This could be it. You understand what you're playing with, right? Like, this isn't a joke. No, it isn't like playing

with, like, firecrackers and stuff like that. It's even, you might lose your finger or something. you're not careful with it but a pipe bomb that's no joke and then these guys get really nasty with it some of them put like trapnel inside to really do some serious serious damage so yeah so that's the kind of case i wanted to do i wanted to make sure for the jury and for the prosecutor that we had good video right i wanted to make sure it is clear so watching a movie i wanted the jury to see okay this is the evidence watch the movie and that's a big difference you see between the federal side and state and local, right? Especially with the local sometimes. It gets a little bit different. Federal, we have a little more time to take our time with the case, make it the strongest case

we can and get as many people as possible. That's why we have a little more time. And it's different. That's why I like the federal system. We have a chance to really make the cases bigger and stronger. And we have good prosecutors. That's a lot of them are career prosecutors. And they really know how to make good cases. So that's what I did. I wanted to make sure undercover wise, And sometimes with informants, there's always issues with the equipment sometimes. They could be messed up and everything else. So they're not professional, right? They didn't go to school for this.

They don't understand case law. They don't understand entrapment, right? You want to make sure people understand, you know, this is what they do, this is what they're involved in. You don't want to bring someone who is not involved in this kind of work. They're actively doing this. They're predisposed. This is what they do. And they have the history of doing this.

Right. So these are all the factors you've got to come. As a professional, you bring. bring that to the table. And informants are, I'd say it, necessary evil, right? Because they are the eyes and ears in the street. I can't live in the street, right? The reality is, I pretend to.

Right. And then I go back to the office, I get a lot of paperwork. I got to go to the prosecutor. I got to deal with evidence. I got talking, give a briefing. So it's a whole different world, and you just show up. But the good thing about them, even though I would cut them out, remember their eyes and ears, they can still tell you,

I heard so-and-so had some doubts about you. I need to tighten this up a little bit. When you come back with me and let's have another conversation with them, make sure you vouch for me and make sure, hey, this is the guy, man. There's nothing to worry about. So those are the things. You keep them a distance, but you still have, make sure that they're listening what's going on. That's important because the last thing you want to do is get cut off guard.

And I was fortunate enough, I mean, there's always some hairy close moments, right? But, you know, you're going to have, and I'll give an example, and I put it in my book, book ATF Undercover, which I talk about. And this happens, and I did a lot of work in Pascolde County. And I had an undercover apartment in Westy Chapel. I had, I did. I live. I know, I know.

I did, and I used to live there West Chapel and then moved down south when I first, I'll start working out there, a lot cheaper than Tampa when I, in 2000. I know what, 54 is completely different than it was 20 some years ago. Well, I live all, I live off 56, you know, 15. It turns into 56, though. But, yeah, it's even further. Like, it's a 15-minute drive to 75 from where I live. It's like living in the Truman Show, though.

I mean, it's the houses are, everything's brand new. Everything's underground. You know, all the houses look, I mean, it's, it's a great area. Like, everybody, it's funny, on my street, there's two sheriff's deputies. There's, like, an insurance salesman. There's a couple of bankers. like the only I'm the riffraff on the street

so you're not 56 you're not too far from Landau Lakes either then no no very very close very close yeah Michael I don't I guess yeah I got to I got to know

Pascal really well from making the cases so I got to know past I don't how much you know Pascoe County but I got to know all the way to New Port Ritchie, Port Ridgeey Port Ritchie, the Hudson area even across New York, Tarpon Springs

and going to Zephyr Hills. So this takes place, not through this story here, this happens in Zephyr Hills. People who don't know Zephyr Hills are Dade City. At the time, I was working, I would say it was back in 2000 to 2012. And this story takes place on 2009, 2010. So this is the Dade City

Pasco I'm talking about. And the Mexicans were picking it up, right? They're moving a lot of meth. There's no more meth labs. There's still some. But now they're bringing. a lot of the meth from Mexico. They're just piping it in. And that whole era became a big pipeline. Right. Which I was saying. I think a lot of stuel drugs and a lot of Mexicans still out there, which this is where everything's changed a lot. And this is a trailer. I meet

with this guy. He's a career criminal, a drug trafficker, right? Hand him for him to make introduction. First, I mean him and him and him are sitting the car together. I meet him out 3.1. And we're going to drive to these trailers, shady trailers, predominantly Hispanic, right? and he's talking to me he's saying his history he said man yeah I'll get through these guns but I used to move a lot of coke a lot of product

I was moving two or three easy kilos a week I was like okay so I said if you tell me I mean he just got out he wants to get back into the game this is what he does I said okay so he took me there he's a non-Spanish speaker and he takes me to the trailers and he said hey this is my guy here he has the guns

some guys give a heads up a little nervous about this they say sometimes guys who buy guns lot are feds. I said, no, I'm no fed. Of course, you got to deny that. You got it. You got me in there. It's over. Let me take you back home. No, that's going to happen. So you deny that. And he goes in there, and I talked to his guy who's there, he's Hispanic, bullhead, right? And we're talking a little bit in Spanish. He's testing me out, which is fine. And he goes, he goes in a trailer. So him and I are sitting outside in my truck. And I see more people. We get out of the car. And he's on one side, I'm on the other side, and I can see

there are a lot more people going to the other side of the trailer. A lot more people going inside. He can't see that, I can see that. So I can see that. So you're going to have instincts or so, listen, I just met you guys. The deal we're supposed to be doing is for AK-47, a 75-round drum, two-glock pistols, almost an ounce of meth, for a little over $3,000, right? And I don't feel comfortable. He goes, hey, listen, the stuff's inside, but these guys don't want to bring it out. So I'm talking about here.

Normally what you do is wrap it up. You'll bring in the car real quick. and we're done I get the hell out of here right and he said but he wants to come in you go him inside and I was like and I know there's more people coming in he doesn't know that I know that already so I'm I'm almost like uh no dude I don't want to meet anybody I said no it's fine I said now and I said okay what do you give me the money and I'll get I'll get it for you I said uh no I'm not what's going to happen is you're going to walk with 3,000 and I'm going to have a bigger headache to deal with to chase you and everybody else who just stole my money which that was going to be a rip so I said I'll give you five minutes I'm going to sit in the car

either you bring it or I'm out of here because that's the beauty of being the case agent and the undercover is that I don't feel the pressure let's say I was just the undercover and I'm working for somebody else working in their case right something you feel the pressure you want to make it happen

for me I'm both and if it happens great if not I got a lot of work I got other people I'm dealing I got you today I got someone else tomorrow right so I don't Stop Do you know how fast you were going I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie The Naked Gun

Liam Nissan Buy your tickets now and get a free Tilly Dog Not included The Naked God Tickets on sale now August 1st I don't ever felt that kind of pressure

I had to make it happen because I don't I want to go home at the end That's the most important thing No deal is there Five minutes later A Honda Odyssey pulls up A guy pops up with an AK-47

Same for a round drum So him and I talk He sells me the gun I take a look at it I gave him the money for that, and then he has a backpack, another friend had brought him, and he sells me the glocks with the crystal map. I saw, hey dude, next time, just keep it between us, and I don't want to deal with this circus next time. And he understood that. So what, what, I think it's tested

me. Right. So why would you go, why, if, if the AK wasn't in there, they showed up later, like, why am I going in the trailer? Like, why, what do you think they were trying to get you in the trailer for. I think they want to rip me off. Oh, okay. I think they want to rip me off. I think they want to take my $3,000, $3,000, $4,000. And hit me, he said, hey, this could be easy hit right here and we don't have to sell anything. Because you don't know. Some of these gang, I mean, these are gang members, by the way. These aren't average. These are a trailer, shitty trailer, Zephyr Hills. There's a lot of gangs in that area. I want you to understand a lot of Hispanic gangs, a lot of gang members, sent a lot of meth, a lot of heroin.

armed teeth I don't think of for hills and like that at all I mean it's it's very you know rule like you know what I'm saying it seems like it's read my book and I'll give example after example

of that area going go in there and stuff like that it is hot and that's when it was there I think it's got worse what I seen because the cartels have just gotten stronger when I was there they were coming up you know chopper was good Senloa is strong but but now you have

the rise of C-J-N-G with the Alisco New Generation Cartel. Yeah. Major rival for Sinaloa, right? El-Mancho. He's now the big player, Servantes, right? And they're going to war. And all these guys,

El Chapo, El-Menschel, give your audience a little background. All these guys came on absolute poverty. I mean, they were selling avocados and oranges in the street and now have risen to me big drug lords where their assets are over $50 billion. And that's according to the Mexican government and the U.S. government.

So you tell me they're not making drug lords in Mexico when these guys, and most of these guys are illiterate. They dropped out of school when they're in the fourth or fifth grade, right? But what are they good at? They're good at killing. Yeah. And they're not afraid to kill. Yeah, they're brutal. They're brutal.

Brutal. Brutal. Is it El Mayo, which was Chapo's, basically started the Cinelloa, right? And then El Chapo kind of came in right after. But I was going to say, El Mio, like, I heard that. But he still drives like an old, he's worth, you know, billions and billions or whatever. And he still drives an old pickup truck. That's smart.

Around town. Like, you know, like he's not, you know, he lives in a, you know, different places. And you know, same thing with El Chavo. He's always, all he's really, he's really good at survive. He was up until the United States got him, you know, but he was really good at surviving, you know, through brutality and just forth thinking, like, all. through that on the escape route. Always be thinking,

don't all keep staying in the same place. Change locations, you know. That's what El Chapo was nicknamed also as Rapido. The quick one. He was the master of the tunnels. Right. I remember that great tunnel he had the second time he was captured underneath the prison?

Unbelievable. Now, you know what's funny about that? I had read that, like the area that was where the prison is, it was actually the new generation, that was in charge of digging even though they're rivals of digging the tunnel

but at that time I think at that time they were still 2015 yeah they began to go a little bit sideways not as bad as now but it would get a lot worse but what a corruption that's one of the things I talk about is we don't have a equal partner

in the war on drugs corruption in Mexico is so unbelievable and that's the reason I bring that up because during the trial for the chapel in New York and was brought these government witnesses testified that

El Chapo offered this is before Lopez Obrador, the president before that with Peña Nietzta he offered him of a bribe Nietta won allegedly according to court documents he wanted a $250 million payout

so we won't look for El Chapo. They said you don't worry about you can be a fugitive for another 15 years right? He said no I'll pay $100 million and allegedly wouldn't is to say testified he took it he took it so if the top of mexican government is on the take then we have no chance this is what the battles we're fighting you know you see case after case after general uh attorney general i mean just get keep on getting arrested for being involved in

money laundering and involved in all this stuff here uh and this guy helmencho out of cj and g um he was former law enforcement he was out of helisco right he was he was involves it. A lot of these guys know the game. They know it. And he's the same way we just talk about at Mayo when I was reading Guadalajara because now it's the battle for Guadalajara, which is where a lot of stuff is going on. But he's looked like he's won because they were

trying to a split. You know how everything is? Everybody wants to be king. Right? Yeah. One day you're the king. They want to take you out. Right? Almencho had guys, he brought in that was former Millennium Cartel guys at Split, right? And they want

take over. And this guy's name is escaped him right now. But if you look at the videos, he has him tortured, right, wrapped up, kill him, and then left the park bench is this is what happens when people betray

El Mentiono, right? And stuff like that. So right now it seems like he still has the lockdown in Guadalajara, which is very important for him. And he's the same guy that you're talking about, Amayo. He likes to live modestly. Not like Escobar, right? I lived in that big palace.

Right. Everybody knew where he lived and where he was out, but he brought, he bribed everybody. These guys have to look key. El Chapo's bounty was five million, right, at his peak when he escaped the second time. After Sean Penn and Kate DeCastillo interviewed him, if you haven't seen that interview and video, man, you guys need to check that out. Roadstow magazine. That's great. Unbelievable stuff he's, I can't believe Sean Penn did that because you don't know. Yeah, that's, yeah, that, you know, listen, they don't care. El Trapo didn't even know who he was. Like, he's probably thinking, well, my celebrity will probably help, help me a little bit

or keep me safe a little bit. No, it won't. He didn't even know what you are. No. I would not have done that. That could have got really ugly. And he almost caught him after the interview because they were tracking the mixed-in actress Castillo's phone. U.S. authorities were tracking and just missed him barely.

Just barely. It will take a few more years to finally catch him again. and they will not escape the third time. Not escape a third time. They obviously realized, like, look, we're just not going to be able to keep this guy here. We have to send him to the United States. And that's so sad because, you know what, now we have the costs, right? Now the U.S. tax dollar has to pay for keeping this guy for life, feeding him, the expenses, illegal, everything we pay because it makes him the government so corrupt they couldn't do it themselves.

And his case after case like this. Very sad. I think, you know, it's funny. like, I, first of all, people are always, you know, oh, the, you know, like the U.S. government's corrupt. Like, look, there's some corruption here and there. Like, you have no idea what it's like in other countries. That's true.

In other countries, look, if, and not just that, it's like, look, you're paying your police officer in Mexico making six or $700 a month. Nothing. That's nothing. Like, like, I get it. You shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't be involved in corruption. You should be. But it's hard not to be, not only for the money, but it's dangerous. Like if you end up being a cop, like it's kind of like the, what was it, shoot, I was just going to say what, there was a movie about it.

El Cholo was his name. El Cholo was a guy who, his rival, they got wrapped up and executed. Look up his name. El Cholo, look at the video. You see the guy from CJ&G behind him in masks, and next see you know, he ends up in a park bench, see the pictures. wrapped up he was tortured and said this is what happened till cholo the traitor he don't play he don't play it's just it's a horrible situation in general so you know when you were talking about like the higher up um upper echelon of the government i have a buddy named uh won sanchez

who was in um in venezuela right he was a venezuelan citizen came to the night state started doing real estate doing very well 2008 financial crisis hits his subdivisions the development start going under he needs money so he goes to Venezuela and he starts pitching to Venezuelans like hey you should invest

and so people in the government invest basically the equivalent of the US or the head like the US attorney here right the US Attorney General in Venezuela ends up investing with him multiple people in the

government investing but they're in government he finds out later when Juan gets caught the money they're investing is money they're laundering for Mexico. The cartels for the cartels through Venezuela they give it to Juan Juan loses

the money. Oh no. Now they're threatening to kill him. He actually goes back to Venezuela. They kidnap him for four or five days. He eventually escapes, gets on a plane, flies back to the United States, but when he gets caught, he eventually, obviously, he cooperates. He cooperates and the FBI comes in and the CIA comes in. He said they never said CIA, but they never showed badges, anything. My lawyer told me, I think they were CIA. They come in and they say,

listen, we looked at your phone. We see phone numbers and names in here of people that we've had indicted from Venezuela that are in the government. And so they start asking him, you know this guy, you know this guy. He goes, yeah, I know that guy. And they said, we've had him indicted on a sealed indictment. We can't get him. But, you know, so they asked him what happened. He tells him.

And he says, do you want me to get him to come to the United States? And they go, yeah, but he's, he would never do that. He's, he's not that stupid. And they go, and Juan goes, no, no, he's that stupid. He goes, you don't get to become, you don't get that high in the government without being you don't get it through brains you get through brutality that's true so he he contacts him because the guy had asked him to try and get him a travel permit in the united states so he could bring his family into the united states

to visit disney world so he contacts him sends him an email no no that's not but his his his his visa had been denied by the state department He said, all you have to do is have the U.S. Embassy write him a letter saying that it was a mistake and it's been approved and he can come. They wrote him a letter. He said literally, we're talking about three days later he's on a plane, flies into Miami, and they arrest him in the airport in Miami. With his family thinking they're going to Disney will. No, no, no. He's going to the slumber now.

You know, what happens is he rolled over on a bunch of people. ended up getting like four years or something and got back out. Oh, did it? Massive, massive indictment. This guys do. Like, at that level, you got to cooperate. You got flip. You got a turn.

And if one thing I've noticed, all these guys, too, because if you don't, you get the hammer. You get slammed. You get the most time. So, yeah, you know, there's a. Yeah. Now, something about Venezuela, man. Venezuela, it was Nicolas Maduro now. It's a narco state.

it has become a night. He's not a communist anymore. Remember him, Hugo Travis, this guy's no communist. This guy, it's all about making money. But the people suffer. He keeps them suffering. This guy's a dictator.

He's a narco-dictator. He's been indicted by our government. But you know what? Obsessed me as a little politics here, but we'll talk a little bit of everything. My book's all about this. But Joe Biden threw him a lifeline. Administration.

Just see if Chevron go back there, and get oil pumped up because we don't want to deal with the Russians, right? We're tired of the Saudis, what stuff he's done, Maham-Benzabin, so it's like we want to work with the Venezuelans with all the stuff, this guy's done? He said, that's atrocities to his people. If you're not about him, you're done. And that's why Miami, you know, has been transformed

with the Venezuelans coming over. Like the Cubans did, you know, from the 60s on, the Venezuelans have brought a lot of money, Dural. I know from the middle of South Florida has changed. changed immensely with Venezuelans. But a lot of the money has come over, transformed it. So that's what you're seeing. And people say, well, man, America is it.

Yeah, the United States has issues. I live in Virginia now. And I was fortunate enough to, I like to travel like history. My background, you know, I told you of political science and history. I went to Mount Vernon. And I've gone to Monticello, Mount Vernon's Washington's home. And then Monticello, Jefferson's home. And I visited there.

And even it's true, 1797, you know, Washington had just finished his second term, will not run for a third term, does not want to be seen like King George or a dictator. He says, even then, it applies today. We had issues, you know, there's no perfect democracy. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best that's out there. And I think it applies today the same thing. It's not perfect people.

We're not having a perfect system, but it's the best that's out there. Trust me, I've studied in politics internationally, the corruption. Yeah, we're going to have corrupt officials. We're going to have problems, but it's the best that's out there. So that's where we're at with the corruption in Mexico. But the Mexican government, it's probably worse. I think it's stronger than the Colombians were because their reach is all over Central America. It's all over South America.

And they have a lot of people in the United States. And they're reaching not just in customs officials, not just with politicians, but you see it deeper and deeper in our country because the money is so big and so out there. And the corruption is big. It's corrupt here, but they're corrupting here. So what are our solutions? We need to deal with the problem within treatment. We need people to get off it.

We need people to work on their addictions because it's just going to get worse. And they want to, like Maduro said, like I said, they're weaponizing cocaine to help destroy this country. They think it's going to fall like a rotten apple from within. People are going to fall and break. And that's what they're trying to do. So it's funny. So I wish, why can't I remember the name of this, this book?

I used to know it too. And trust me, somebody in the comment section will tell me the name of the book. It was actually came out probably 50, probably 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago. And it's about there's a like an evangelist, like a preacher, super rich preacher. His son gets caught. He has a security detail, right? Like, he's got several of these mega churches. He has a security detail, and one of the lead security agent or security person in charge of his security detail is a former DEA agent that had to retire because of brutality.

Like, he had been caught multiple times, like, and, you know, he was, been written up. He finally retires. Well, the, I'll call him the preacher. The preacher's son ends up getting caught, like smoking, I don't know, smoking, doing drugs or something. one of his friend ODs on Coke or something. I forget what it was. But he's upset and he ends up venting to this former DEA agent. So his security, you know, a head of security.

So his head of security, he's like, he says, how much money do I give? You know, every month, every year. He's like, oh, like a million dollars to these programs. And he goes, he goes, is it even helping? He's like, no, it's not going to do nothing. And he says, well, what can end this? And he said, well, you know, it's so out of control. If the government can't, they just can't, it's everything they can do to try and keep it stemmed.

If you could get it pulled back a little bit, then they could probably get a better handle on it. And he said, there's an idea we used to kick around at the DEA. And he said, well, what was that? He said, if you poisoned the drug supply, then the hardcore, he said, the casual users aren't the problem. He says, casual users would just stop. He said, but the drug addicts, he said, they would have to seek some kind of rehabs. Any rehab, yeah. Right.

And so they end up, he ends up going to somewhere, and who knows where Brazil, I forget where it was, but someplace, and he ends up finding this chemist, and he ends up getting these mushrooms that allows them to poison the drug supply, right, like Coke. And he, of course, he gets a bunch of retired DEA agents, you know, friends of his to help him. there's a group of like six of them and he ends up poisoning a whole bunch of drugs and what happens is the hardcore users they inhale it

and then if they do enough of it it ends up breaking down and shutting down their their livers and they die so they end up doing this on a massive scale oh my gosh and I listen it was and of course what happens is it works but the problem is what he tells the preacher

is like you know there will be some people will get sick there may be a few deaths and he knows the reality is there's going to be thousands and there ends up being tens of thousands of death because they do it on such a massive scale and this is fiction this is fiction it's fiction yeah it's fiction but it's a great book i mean keep on how much i read when i was locked up it was this it was just really well written researched you know how much was possible i don't know but it was it really you know and the guys got the statistics and the whole thing and you you really realize reading the book like what a massive issue it is or it is it is and another another way to attack it was when you're seeing here

you see in virginia all over the country and it started with marijuana it's been it's getting legalized all over the country right right shall use you take the in because the mexic cartels make a lot of money cultivating marijuana so you take that a little bit of away from them, that's going to hurt their profits a lot too. So I think marijuana, you're seeing it, I mean, I know Florida is just medical, but I know Virginia got it approved for a recreational. So it is going all over in the northeast, the Midwest, of course the West Coast, up and down, is proof of recreational.

So that's where you're seeing it. It's going that way. I think marijuana, you know, Thomas Jefferson even grew marijuana in Monticello, right? Founding Fathers. I mean, marijuana's been around for hundreds of thousands of years. People have been smoking it, right? You know, it's not my thing. I don't like getting high.

I don't like smoking my lungs. But if some people, that's what they want, like cigarette smoking. I'd rather not be around it, right? I like to eat away from that. I don't like to be around any of that stuff here. But some people like it. I think the edibles now, I think are legal in every state. It gets you high, those edibles.

Right. Have you seen that? That's everywhere now. Yeah. I mean, you know, drugs were just never my thing. Right. But this is the thing. I'm, I definitely agree that, you know, to me, look, if you took the money they spent on the prison population and you made going to rehabs affordable and you did more education and you legalize a lot of those substances, I think would alleviate the problem considerably. And it, listen, and it'd be detrimental to the cartels. Absolutely. Because then you're taxing it here. We're making the money, right? the states in the federal system.

So you have to eliminate marijuana from being a Schedule I banned substance, right? That's the first thing, because you can do all the things in the state level, but if you're still a, you use marijuana, you want to buy a firearm, and an FFL, federal firearms licensee, you show prohibited. You can't do that because you're still a drug user, right?

If you're a drug user, you can't do that. Marijuana is still on the list there. So a lot of things, I know that's passed in the House of Representatives that needs to be approved in the Senate to start making this nationwide. Because I've seen, it firsthand. I think we're wasting time in the judicial system, clogging judicial system, when you have these petty cases. ATF went after the worst of the worst, right? The most violent. That's what you have to focus on. The most violent repeat offenders, armed traffickers,

armed home invaders, guys who want to commit murder for hire, you know, international traffickers. That's gun traffickers. That's what we have to focus. Now guys who have some weed that want smoke and they're doing this on the side. I mean, all the places want to have a ZT policy, zero tolerance. That's a waste of time. You're clogging the system on these people should be treated for health issues, not criminal. They shouldn't criminalize these people, in my opinion. This is coming for guys who have been 26 years in law enforcement who have seen it, right? I just think it is a waste of our tax dollars. It's a waste of time. And we're building more prisons. We need to focus on, and the court system gets overwhelmed with it also. And you don't want any of that.

So we have to be smarter. It's marijuana. Yes. Hey, let it. Let it. Learned a lesson from prohibition. I wrote a book about it, right? The rise of the outfit here, the Chicago crime bosses. And that's what made Al Capone. That's what made these guys of violence because it was illegal, right? And then once we legalize it, well, there goes to that. And all of a sudden, the government's making the money, right?

They're getting taxed. And everybody can enjoy themselves. You're not being criminalized for having a beer or drinking whiskey, which was ridiculous, right? The same thing, in my opinion, should apply to marijuana. The other drugs, a little bit tougher deal with, but we have to come up with solutions. But marijuana is the first gateway, I think, with that. Because, I mean, everybody in college, you see how many people in college have to go sometimes with really bad areas to get some weed, right? Right.

End up getting hurt, robbed. You just go to the store, right? It's illegal. We have to be smarter about it. Obviously, I don't want to be around it. I don't want to smell it because I went to Kingston for do some work for training. And everywhere in Kingston, you could smell it. The ganja, as they say.

Ganjaman, right? it's everywhere. And I really don't, I didn't care for that smell. That's wrong. Kingston in Jamaica, right? Right, Kingston, Jamaica. They have a lot,

they grow a lot of wheat. They call it Ganja over there. Oh, listen. And you know, there's places in Jamaica, you can't even go. Oh, that's true. I mean, the government doesn't go.

Yeah. Like, we were, when I went to Jamaica, it's funny, I was on the run and I went to Jamaica. And we were to have the taxi driver, he's like, driving us around and we were like hey let's go here let's go here and he was like yeah you can't go

there and he was like listen he's like the police don't go there like you definitely aren't going there we're not going there in my cab and it was like wow it's like that bad like what even the police don't go he's like no it's combat section that area is completely um owned and operated by the you know this one gang to make them possibly whoever try yeah yeah they just had a huge arrest i think about five seven years ago guy's name was coke like from cocaine Right. Yeah. And the people in Kingston were writing because he obviously, you know, they provide a lot of work. And, you know, it's like an Escobar type, right? They also give a lot to the community, just like Chappell did, Guzman. They give a lot. They know the little people, they want to take care of little people. So they kind of help the little people a lot. Because they work with their organization and do stuff like that. That's the same mentality you saw out there in Kingston. Yeah, a lot of people just want to go. If I tell me, go to Jamaica, I was going to maybe work there as an attache. But once I say, saw first half to two weeks there how the conditions were no way i wouldn't bring my family that's for sure and i definitely wouldn't go my family in mexico uh because i'll also because at the end of my career i

promoted and i went to at fift headquarters and i worked at two years and i was helping briefing the uh the director case uh uh with wanting command for the central region who now is number two command for atf right now so that's a good contact that uh that i have and working and talking and talking and briefing some of the most sensitive cases that ATF was working. So, and then I was going to maybe transfer to Mexico, but then with the issue with Lopez Obrador, what was going on, who was the president of Mexico, they renounced our diplomatic community status as agents. So you think I'm going to go to Mexico and they don't want to carry farms?

So they don't want you armed. They don't want you to have divinic community. And I'm going to be kidnapped with my family? I said, no way. I said, I'm eligible to retire. I did my time up here. I enjoy my career. thank you so much.

And then I got into writing. Right. I did a nice trip in writing. Well, I've been, you know, writing like this by a year and a half now since I've been retired. But I used to write a lot of reports, right? You get good and really detailed in writing a lot and a lot and a lot. So I said, and I always have a thing for it. I like reading.

I'm always fascinated with, you know, history and political science and current events. I'm always reading information. So that's what a lot of my books are, you know, I got fiction, nonfiction, but I do a lot of politics. I do about organized crime, and I realized, you know, when I started writing, and I'm not here promote anybody, but, you know, I had a family member. She was in the publishing industry for over 20 years, right? She had, she got laid off, and I was talking to her. And she said, you know, it's hard at the time, you know, COVID was still around, right? And it was such a huge backlog. And I said, you know, you might want to look at Kindle and with Amazon.

Because you can self-publish. And you don't have to wait for anybody, right? And you get like 80-20, especially digital books, like 75-25, right? So, you know, screen on both ends. It's screen for my pocketbook and the screen for the environment. You do the digital books, right? And then I'm now doing audio, too. And shout out to Sean Milo for that.

We'll both know him, he's a great guy, and that should be coming out my book. If you're not, anybody's a big reader, and I've been told a lot of people rather listen to it. Yeah. And it's a great, great story. I encourage people to listen to these books and go audible. It should be out hopefully in about a month or less. It'll be out there.

So I looked into it and it worked for me because I go at my pace. I do whatever subject matter. Because you know how it is. A publisher, you get rid of the middleman who's only cares about making money. It's not about always making money. It's about putting something out there which I wanted to talk about, read about. Right. I was going to say also, you know, as a writer, you make like, you'll make $6, $6, $6,000.

$57 on a book that you sell on on Amazon and if the publisher sells it you're making a dollar 15 a dollar 35 like you know and look that I got up I was locked up I got a book deal they were in Barnes and Nobles you know that's great like how how exciting is that that's super cool but in the end like six months ago this is five years later six months ago is the first time I actually got a small check from them because it took that long to pay back the advance they gave me. They gave me like a $3,500 advance.

And listen, in prison, $3,500 is a lot of money. But, you know, it just took that long to even pay it back. That's ridiculous. Now, you would have made a lot more money with Kindle for sure. Yeah. I like doing old.

I mean, and I enjoy, just like I did my cases, I wore many hats. I played out with my books. I do my own book covers, I do my own editing, I write the material, I choose what I'm going to write about. I just did a book that just came out, I think I forward to you on Facebook, a messenger on the Jim Jones, right, in Jonestown on the massacre, because it's now 45 years, and I

want to do a little bit deeper dive in that, and I found some pretty interesting things in there and mistakes that were made, and I thought things, and I also give my opinion, right, based of my expertise. Right. Right. There's a worst U.S. cult mass murder in U.S. history. Almost 9, oh, 950 dead, right? I was going to say almost 1,000 people. There's something like 150 kids or 200 kids or something. How many kids? More of that. More of that. That's horrible. You could hear, if you haven't heard the Jim Jones tape, because he recorded the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. You should hear that. Horrible. Horrible. My kids are crying and everything else. And the mother, his wife, Marcellina, but her name was, she's telling him because these are his kids, too. He's poison.

He said, let the kids live. And he goes, and just like this, he goes, Mother, Mother, Mother, please. You know, he's already crazy. Mother, please. Like, very sarcastic and nasty. Like, says, you know, children hurry. Because he already killed the congressman, right?

He had his go out already killed the congressman. Leo Ryan and his entourage, NBC, and everybody else, Washington Post. They gunned them down because they knew they had 20 defectors. He knew it was over. It was over in Guyana. And then he said, said, when they came back, said, hey, some escaped, he knew it was over. He knew they're going

to come down, put him in jail, shut it all down. And he was so selfish, he rather, everybody killed themselves to make that statement. He called it the suicidal revolution, which is insanity, all these people's lives that came in in for a better life, lost their lives. Drinking the Kool-Aid. That's what it's called. Drinking the Kool-Aid. It wasn't even Kool-Aid. Flavor-Aid. Yeah. Flavorade. But poor Kool-Aid. Poor Kool-Aid got hit with Kool-Aid this whole time. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid.

What's that? Kool-Aid. But I was going to say, the problem is everybody always faces on the murder, right? Right? The mass suicide. Even if you remove that, though, his rise

is amazing. Oh, my God. His ability to manipulate is amazing. And the fact that he starts Jonestown and then the senator shows up and they realize the senator they realize what's happening I'm sorry Congressman's going to go back to the United States

he's going to he's going to tell everybody they're going to obviously send over the troops and grab these guys it's coming down but then he actually sends his guys to kill him and they do like that story that that's the great thing of what I love about I love about nonfiction, you couldn't come up with that.

No. Like, that is so bizarre. It's, you know, the term, you know, truth is stranger than fiction. That's true. I agree. If you told someone that and it hadn't happened, they'd be like, yeah, bro, that's just like, it's, it's too out there to believe. Sure. I agree.

Everybody would, like, that's just too. And it, but it happened. It's an amazing story. He's another guy that grew up, but I didn't know his background until I reached. This is reason why I do stuff like this. I love researching nonfiction. I love them. I've done a lot of these.

So if you like what we're talking about, check out the book, please. It's on Amazon. It just came out. But with him, he came out of absolute poverty. Yeah. Object poverty.

I mean, out of Indiana, right? In, in, uh, in Indiana, his father was a, uh,

World One veteran who suffered serious, serious, uh, chemical tax. You know how the war was at the trenches, right? Yeah. He couldn't breathe.

He couldn't work. Couldn't do anything. A guy was disabled, pretty much, and the pension was horrible back then. And then they had the Great Depression. They lost her home. The government, the company, the mortgage company ceased it. And the family had the buy them a shack. And they lived in a shack with no plumbing and no electricity, an absolute horrible situation.

So that's why I think he need to find something. And I think that's what he found, you know, religion and ministry, his goal. Because he would obviously perverse it completely. And he would end up, you know, the people's temple what ends up being a cult pretty much because you to join you have to turn all your finances to all your money goes to him

he'll take care of you who'll find your housing and he took advantage and I hate to say it took advantage of a lot of minorities and a disadvantaged people right and a politician because he came up with integration right he was one of the first guys integrating the churches with blacks and whites

and everything else was unpopular in Indiana right he ended boy in San Francisco. Of course, very liberal out there, right? Became very popular. He would help get votes for the mayor. In 76, Walter Mondell and Jimmy Carter, was there any help California go blue, right? So he can beat forward.

So that's why they were embarrassed, humiliated, right? Angry, they didn't want a full investigation on Jones doubt. But this guy, Ryan, he was a Democrat, but he knew there was something wrong. But this is where I criticize him in the book, a little. little bit. When you know this guy is so unstable, right? They had already information, affidavits and defectors, that they were already doing

mock drills like this, drinking the Kool-Aid. They already trained them that if this happens, this is what we're going to do. They have people what they call white-night drills where they have gunfire over their heads. So they would just stay down and they would drink the Kool-Aid. He had all the cyanide prepared for this.

So you don't think But I, don't you look, but I hear what you're saying, but If you were telling me that, I would be thinking, that's crazy. It's too crazy. Like, that's not going to happen. Like, that's never happened. Like, I mean, in the, in history, it's happened.

But it's so unbelievable that an American citizen and that a group of American citizens would have done this or that anybody would follow or anybody would follow through like, okay, he's doing it. I get it. He's out there. But that's probably not. It's not going to happen. And, you know, who's going to, and who's going to kill a senator? That's not going to happen. But the senator or congressman?

Congressman. Not just a congressman, but the entourage that's with him. The staff, yeah. The staff, and there's one lady who was his staff member. She survived by playing dead for 24 hours on the strip there until the army came in to rescue her. She played dead. She had five bullet wounds aside her. She just wrote a book in a great interview.

I haven't seen her talk about it. She gets very emotional. Now, she took over his old position like 10 years ago. So now she's a congressperson from that district. Okay. Yeah. Unbelievable story. But you know what?

A lot of people didn't commit suicide. What the investigation shows, they wanted to leave. They were, the guards, his what he called the red, but he's a communist. Those who don't know, he's a hardcore, very much Marxist-Leninist communist. He hated this country because obviously the racial issues, he called it pretty much a racist, fascist nation. Right. and he wanted to set up this Marxist utopia out there in Jonestown. He was a big fan of the Soviet Union.

He even had Soviet officials come in and say, this is the perfect Marxist utopia that have set up here. And they congratulated him. They went out there and said, man, you've done here. But at the same thing, these people were pressed. He had him work 12-hour days. He fed him rice and beans while he ate like a king. And at the end, those who didn't want to commit suicide,

the gun squad what I call them the Red Brigade came up with injections and injected everybody in the shoulder with a cyanide and you see that and so a lot of people were murdered and to me when you're brainwashed like that you're being murdered because didn't some of the people

even try and run off into the woods and stuff and they were shooting at them they didn't you can't you can't no escape you have to die when he said it's time to die it is time to die there was no like hey this was a Matt Now, these people were murdered.

I mean, a lot of people say, you know, especially children, and they have no say in it. They were forced to drink that, small children. They were killed, and they were a lot. I think there were 200-something children that were murdered, and they're including his own children. And his own wife even protested and said, this has to be a different way.

And then it goes, mother, mother, mother, mother, mother, please. You know, he goes like, he gets, he's already in that crazy psycho world. And he tells children, we have to hurry, children. We have to hurry. We have to send a message to the world, the suicidal revolution. I mean, he was just off his, I mean, who was the right mind was to see?

Because he wanted to send a message, and he didn't take the Kool-Aid himself. Sinai, he shot himself in the head. Did you, well, so, I forgot, I'm going to butcher this guy's name. The guy who wrote Fight Club, a Chuck Pahulnich. Yeah.

I know I bushered his name. Anyway, he wrote a book called Survivor. and it talks about a mass suicide and he talked about several mass suicides in the book but it's very much written in the same vein as Fight Club he has that real choppy writing style which is great because that book really moved along

he also talks about like that's a great book with about multiple different types of suicide talks about Heaven Gate Heaven's Gate Hemisgate yeah that's mass suicide but nothing like Like, nothing compares to... There's nothing. We've never had it.

It was the worst mass murder until 9-11, right, with Americans, right? I see that. So, you know, and with that, so going back to my point, I thought the Congressman made a mistake. I know he had a history of being very proactive. He's a Democrat. And remember, this guy, Jones, helped the Democrats win the 76th election, the national election. He helped, it went a lot because. he was key getting the votes out with African Americans because he had an integrated church.

He was a socialist. Remember, and there's a very socialist area. So the State Department did not give him a lot of information while I was reading. According to the staff members who survived, what really was going on? Because remember, they have people already saying about all these defectors saying, hey, dude, they're doing mock exercises. They're torturing people in there. If you stand up anything, they'll put you in this hot box. They'll put you underground. They put you in a well. They really torture people. You better get on the program. There's no escaping.

There's no leaving. This is what they're doing to you. So I think it was a big mistake. Him knowing what's going on there, knowing these guys are armed. He knew they were armed. I personally, as being common sense, is I need the guy in government

to help me get me security, protection. He went unarmed. He thinking that the media guys, oh, you know, I have NBC with me, have the Washington Post. He's not going to shoot us with the media here. Yeah. kill everybody.

This guy's not following the Geneva Convention. Like, I can't show reporters or medics. Don't you know I'm a congressman? Yeah. I don't think he can't. Yeah. Yeah, man. And he's, he can never underestimate your opponent.

Never underestimate, be prepared. I think he would have, if he would have had the army, or at least some representatives, and they saw the evidence, I think they could arrested and take him. him there and he would save those lives. I think he was just approached the wrong way. And at the end, knowing that kind of person, how volatile it is, how could they not think that would not trigger that after he'd been practicing that, right? He pretty much said that's what he's going to do.

Arrogance. So that's my criticism in the book. If you read it, I blame a lot of the card administration at the time for, obviously, he went out there as a congressman. He could do his own investigation, right? Different bodies of government. You have the executive and legislator. But they should have given him some support and protection because he was set up to fail.

He was set up to fail and they failed badly. And look what we have, the consequences. So something you got to really think about this guy. And he really, there's a reason why he created Georgetown because he was this close, again, picked up in the U.S. for obviously tax evasion. He really didn't have a church. He had all this protection as a church, but he was a cult and he was stealing and he was abusing. He would rape the members.

He would even rape males. So he was involved in a lot of bad things So he knew his time was coming That's where he set up Guyana I think originally he wanted to go in Brazil But it was easier for him Because he's Guyana was a British colony

Foreign British colony English speaking And it just worked out easier for him to go to Guyana Which at the time had become a socialist nation also Very communist So that's another issue They had to deal with so Interesting read

If you like what we talked about I think you'll like the story of Jim Jones If you don't know much about it A lot of the younger generation I've noticed doesn't know anything what happened at Joe's town so read about it you'll be shocked

and the video his video is taped the death tape you got to listen to that of the brink of a madman with a thousand people jumping off a cliff yes

um well shoot I was going to say something too when you were talking I was thinking um oh I know what it was it was the

it kind of one of the things you were talking about finances is it reminded me of um of uh uh david caresh oh waco yeah yeah he would have everybody he would have all the women and everybody go and get on uh food stamps and get on you know like that that's a big thing with the cults one of the things they do is they they immediately have everybody sign up for you know they call it what they call it bleeding the bleeding the beast they call it like bleeding the beast where you sign up for all the subsidies and all that you

get as much as you can. Of course, they all live there. And he, of course, you know, he's got air conditioning. He's eating well. They're all like a king. Yeah. Yeah. That's typical with this communist, you know, socialist system. Look at Nicholas Maduro. You looked at Fidel Castro. You look at Xi Jinping in China. You look at Kim Jong-un in North Korea. They abused the people, the little people. They think this is better for them. No, this is the best system out here, folks. Don't get conned into that. This is the best system out there. Nothing is perfect, but it is the best system. At least, you know, you can work your way up. You want to get you an education. You want to do things. You can make something in your life here. And it happens. One thing you can never take

away from you, I tell people this all the time, is your education. They can never, no matter what happens, they can't take your education from you. They can't take your drive from you. They can't take your determination from you. That's built within you. No matter what government happens in here. So educate it and be free. And there's a lot of brainwash it. And be a person, ask questions. Get different sources. Don't just accept one source. And unfortunately, these people did that, right? And you see the communists do that. And he was very good at propaganda and brainwashing where you weren't allowed to other information for other sources. It was his source information, healthy diet every day, that way. So Castro did the same thing. CCP does the same thing

in China and are written about those books in China. They like their one-party system as our way or the highway. So it'll end up one or three ways for you. Either their death, imprisonment, or they're going to kick care of the country. That's a reality. That's the reality. We live in the 21st century. All right. That's depressing.

So, all right, so. But true, though, right? You really brought the, you really brought the dinner of the show to Hound. No, but, but, but, but we're it, though. We're the shining light here. So, hey, good thing is, we're living the good country. Be happy you're born in communist China or Venezuela or, or, or North Korea.

You've ever seen the videos out there, man? That is depressing. See that? So those are the books. Also, all the kind of books I've written about. So I have such a huge for almost, no, I just did 60th. Jim Jones is my 60th book. I just did my 60th book in a little over a year.

So it's pretty cool. You can find it. Now I'm doing the audible books will be coming out. That should be coming out within a month on ATF undercover. And then I'm doing more with Sean. We're just doing the one of mass shootings. We just started that one. So some of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history.

And based on, my background, solutions to that. I mean, that could be a show within itself. What's going on in our country with mass shootings? That's depressing for me. And how we can stop and how, what we can do. I don't know if you've seen the video or not. And I talked a lot of people about this. I've done shows about this.

Ovalde, Texas. What happened, Rob Elementary? No. I haven't. Yeah, you have to look at the video. 77 minutes while the shooter's in the classroom. killing the students and teachers while the police outside. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah. I've seen bits and pieces. You've got to see the whole thing. It is really, all of it's out there now. And what's really upsetting, and you've got to watch this in the audience to look at this, one of the officers, female officers, you know, they forget they have the body cams on, right? Right. And another guy was recording her because everybody has it off.

And I guess she had her off, but he has his on. And they're outside. They are already finally, it was the feds. It was the Border Patrol, the attack unit came in there, and it wasn't the locals. The other ones went in there, and there were, I think they were like 15, 20 miles away, and they're responded, and they're the ones that came in the classroom, and they're the ones that killed them, who killed the Rommels inside there. It wasn't the locals to stay outside?

She said, he said, hey, wasn't your daughter in there? And one of the guys were saying, no, no, my daughter was a VPK, but if my daughter was in there, I would definitely have gone in. Wow. come on my daughter was in there but what the other people's daughters wasn't children weren't good enough to go in there I mean that's what you you serve and protect this is this is what the call is about when you get that kind of situation and kids are dying that one of the children one of the girls are calling 911 saw her teacher get their head blown off right any other students are dying bleeding in there it says please come and help

using the teacher's phone right to call 911 you stand outside the classroom because oh he's got a a rifle. We have handguns. Well, they have nothing, right? Go in there. We want to get a shotgun. You got shotguns. You got everything else. Those are the kind of things I talk about where you need people who are teachers are willing to protect people. Teachers are willing to die for the students. Some of them were showing the students at the end, taking the bullets for their kids. They want to fight. And just like after 9-11, we had the, after the pilots, right,

taking over the airplanes, they had the option to be armed, right? where it's the point where we're probably have to do the same thing with administrators, teachers, the same thing because some police officers happen to Miami and Parkland they stayed outside, right? And Cruz ends up, Nicholas Cruz, ends up killing a lot of the students and teachers inside

because he has a rifle, right? I understand it's not a fair fight. You know, a handgun, he has better range, it's faster, and he's got through your body hour, but these kids have nothing and the teachers have nothing. And staying outside, that's being a coward. After shoot training, so you've got two people in you can do and you address the guy

because that's what you're supposed to do. So I address a lot of that. I'm going to be coming on Audible soon. It's already on that. And I talk a lot of scenarios, what we've learned, what we haven't learned, and the problems we have. And we may have to become more like Israel

to protect ourselves if, because the response time is too long. And if a lot of these plays don't want you armed, well, they don't have to do something about it because this doesn't end. We just had another one in Michigan State, right? It just seems like every week there's a new active shooter

as we speak right now Matt there's somebody else who got triggered it's going to do the same thing because we have a mental health crisis in this country that's unimaginable and on top of that easy access to weapons that's the problem

that's a depressing thing about 21st century America right now and I put that in my book here it's still solution because the only other solution is a good guy with a bad taking on bad guys with guns right letting everybody be armed and because in Indiana a few months ago in a food court in a

all, a guy had armed himself in the bathroom, he started shooting, but somebody was armed to sue a weapons permit, and addressed them and killed them. Yeah. You never see that. You never see that video, though. That's not the same. They push. No, no, no, no.

They've got to push other stuff. So those are things I want your audience to think about, good conversations, serious topics we've taken on, but that's what I write about. Things are happening and solution my back, especially with ATF, my back with guns and stuff like this. it's really things that shouldn't be politicized by the right or the left. This is about us, right? Our family, because nobody wants their kids kill them.

Everybody wants to have their peace of mind. I have two daughters, safe at school. That's the worst case scenario. You get that call. School got shut down. A madman's, it's in the loose there, and they do nothing. Post nightclub. I mean, it's just case after case that police don't go in sometimes.

Post nightclub, they spend like 12 hours while he's a member in the gay nightclub. The guy is shooting everybody in the gay nightclub. I mean, they wait for the SWAT team. Well, the people are in the bathroom, and he's lining up in the stalls and shooting everybody. Why aren't they going in? So it is just one after another. And I pick apart each one. So it's an interesting review, what we have to learn, what we have to do.

And it's about people being armed. These gun-free zones, Matt, the bad guys are going to victimize you because they... They're going to change a fucking thing. No, they're going to be armed. They know that's easy pickings. Because I've done a lot of shows with guys and, you know, just my own history who have a history. And that's what they look for. You know, they look for the bank doesn't have the armed security guy, right?

They look for the place in the mall, which is nobody armed, no policing or the theater. These are things we have to be prepared for. If you outlaw guns, like, you know, outlaws, like, you know, look, let's face it, criminals are not going to abide by that. No. They're not going to abide by that rule. Oh, we're not going to have a gun. then I won't. What are you talking about? If you're willing to commit a mass shooting,

you're willing to break the law, the gun laws. And you're going to, there's just too many guns. There's two, you'll never get rid of all the guns. No, we can't get rid of all the guns. You know, I say it's the biggest manufacturer of weapons in the world. Yeah. I mean, the Europeans have come here.

I mean, you have Glock used to be made in Austria. It's made in Georgia. Sixth hour, which is made in Germany. It's made in Northeast. H&K, also in Germany, they've come here because we're buying it all. America. I mean, I have my collection, too.

but you have to protect your family because if you expect Cole 911 and the police come to save you from a home evader in your house, don't hold your breath. Yeah, no. You better get your concealed weapons permit. You better practice.

If you haven't shot your gun and that's the first time you're going to shoot it, that's not the time to learn. You better be competent with it because you're going to be pumped, you're going to be drilling, you've got some crazy coming at you, you have to be ready how to use it

and defend your side because the worst thing is you see somebody to do something bad to your family and you wish you could have stopped it. just listen for a guy retired law enforcement of what I've seen

and hopefully people can learn and just pass it some wisdom on what we can do. All right. That's awesome, man. Are you ready?

Yeah, we're good. Yeah, just, you mean, do a little promo on some of them? Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely. I usually say that, you know, obviously I'm going to put Colby, which is,

everybody watches this, knows who Colby is. Colby will put, you know, the book links Like, if you send me the book links, he'll put your book links in the description of the video. So people can just go to the description box. You know, they just hit the button and boom. It'll have a whole list where they can just click on it and bring you straight to your Amazon account or your Amazon book.

And I just have an Amazon author page of all my books. I'll just sing you the Amazon author page that I have. It's a great one. So I let the audience now also. I do also have a Amazon author page, too. You can Google it. I'll go obviously go on Amazon, which is my name. I think it's there, Ignacio Estabon.

And you can see all my books, 60 books, from fiction to nonfiction. I also do fiction books also, which is fun, reads. I also do pictorial books. And I think you'll really like, if you like organized crime, I have a lot to do. This is a true crime channel. I have a lot in organized crime. My personal experiences dealing with Biker Group, but I haven't even talked about that yet. So that could be another show down the road, if you want, doing the one percenters, doing the outlaws, the Hells Angels, the Mongols.

I've done books on Yakuza. I've done books on L.A. gangs. I was in L.A. for eight months between the bloods and crypts of Mexican Mafia. I've done books of MS-13, Manasal Atrucha. So there's a lot of stuff here. If you like this stuff, obviously I've done books on the Mafia, Castro, the Mafia and the history of the Mafia in Havana. The rise and fall, the mafia and Havana led to rise in Las Vegas. Vegas. And I talked all the political side because of my family, they were there. They experienced

it. And you see it firsthand what's going on there. So a lot of cool things. Please look it up and have the audio stuff coming out on audible ATF undercover and hopefully they get the other books out there through Sean. It's on Amazon, right? Everything's on Amazon. All my books are exclusively on Amazon. Am I now with 72 books? I've got super long ones, medium ones, and short ones. And now I'm getting into the audibles. Right. And I was going to say, Sean, you're working with Sean Milo, excellent. Yeah, he's great. You used them. Others have. He's been doing for years. Nice voice, easy, soothing, nice to listen to. Can't complain about that. Enjoy that. And if you're a Kindle,

unlimited subscriber, all my books are free. So if you're a KU subscriber, enjoy that, you've got to read all this stuff too with me. So I'm getting a lot of stuff out there. I'm just, that was just finished. I'm now working one on the Mafia and Miami, the history of the mafia and south florida fascinating stuff i didn't realize and it's i'm working that book now so that should be fun one hey i appreciate you guys watching the video do me a favor hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this and uh share the video and leave me a comment um we're going to put the amazon link in the description and all right i appreciate you guys see you