Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Inside the World of Check Fraud with Charlie Hartman

Episode Date: March 21, 2026

Charlie Hartman shares his life of crime on the run.⁣ ⁣ Connect with Charlie Hartman:⁣ https://www.tiktok.com/@imcharliehartman?_t=8n5y1phlTm2&_r=1⁣ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMhHySYEfrJdD37Pq7TYL1A⁣ https://www.instagram.com/imcharliehartman?igsh=d3E4NjgyMmkwNWh2&utm_source=qr⁣ ⁣ Get 50% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout.⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news⁣ ⁣ 🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit ⁣ 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt⁣ 🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/re⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Seth Shackner. Check out my new show, Breaking Down the Biz. Every week, I sit down with people who actually make movies, music, and media happen. Executives from Sony, Universal, Apple, NBC. Together, we cut through industry jargon and hype to show you how the business is built. What's key to making everything come together and why it matters to you. From iTunes impact on the music industry to the advent of AI, from the Taylor Swift ticket sales fiasco, to Bad Bunny's Meteoric rise, We break down the stories, the numbers, and the negotiations that shape the industry. I've been in the trenches of the entertainment industry for several decades with leadership roles at companies like Sony, Paramount, and Jive Records. My guests and I are going to provide the same thoughtful, concise insights that I'm trusted to bring on TV networks like CNN and NBC surrounding the industry and its culture-defining

moments. We'll touch on the business of music, filmmaking, and streaming, and the emerging technology of our time. If you've ever wondered what really happens behind the scenes of the entertainment business, this is a bite-sized insider guide. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform or watch us on YouTube so you never miss a beat. Let's make sense of this industry together. Taking these homeless guys, cleaning them up, we're just getting routing numbers and accounting numbers going from Vegas all the way up to Reno. The plan was make a bunch of money with Nick and I was going to go disappear.

You get the adrilling and rush them more and more and more. can't be stopped. Cops just surround me. That's a PBL. Okay, what's a PBL? Punishable by life. Oh, shh. Did you get like get in trouble when you were a kid? No, man. I was, dude, I was like, I was like the best kid, Boy Scout, everything. You know that thing Matt when he talked about like, oh, I started my crime while off when I was like stealing candy and stuff? Right. Like mine came from a Christian bookstore. Okay. So what ends up happening is my aunt, who's a divine Christian was like, hey, do me a favor. I'm like 14.

She's like, take this back to the Christian bookstore and return it for me and just get the money back. The guy knows who I am, no big deal. So I'm like, I go do it, and I go returning, get her the money back and everything. And then like a couple weeks later, I noticed at Dollar General, I'm like 14. I'm out walking around with my friends. I see the same books in the Dollar General store and then is in the Christian bookstore. So I'm like, wait, these are only a lot. a dollar here, but they're $30 there. So I went and bought four of them, went and returned them

at the Christian bookstore, and got the money back. Right. And that's what she was doing, too? No, I was doing it. Oh, I thought you figured out that she's what she was doing. No, no, no, no, she was returning a book. She's asked me to return a book for, you're going to run down on to return a book for, and I'm like, and I started figuring out like, oh, I could just scheme and scam this way. Right. And how old were you? I was like 14. Okay. So now I'm like gathering up all my friends and we're like plotting and we're like going to like books a million and we're like doing this like we did this for like a year like so i had like a whole organization of like scamming kids you know using my friends like to go to bookstores and start scamming people did they

did they ever figure that out like eventually they're like how many times are you going to return this book yeah and i was like oh uh i don't know then eventually they started giving us like gift cards so they're no good at that point you know what i mean so you're not buying a lot of a lot of at the Christian bookstore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, and so I was always, like, trying to always think ahead, like, how can I make money, and, you know, and everything like that,

and that scheme and scam like that. And basically, I was, like, 16. My mom came to me, and she's like, hey, look, I'm found a dude. I want to get married. He does not want to be a stepdaddy. I'm going to give you the house. I'm going to give you the car.

Go to school. Do not fuck this up. and make sure you just go to school and everything will be fine. So I go for like the first year, right? Then I find this thing in, it's like a magazine. I mean, it's how predated this is. This is like 96, 97. Get your high school diploma from home.

And it was like a correspondence place called International Correspondent School in Scranton, PA. It's like for people that are like kids that are like traveling or, you know, you know, that's a good. Yeah, it's certain. But they can nail it. You can nail it. off. Like, you could do your classes at home and, like, over the phone and, like, take your tests and stuff like that, everything. So at the age of 16, I started doing this during my summer between the start of high school and ended up graduating with enough credits before the start of actual high school. And I went to turn the paperwork in and the school's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is supposed to take like three years. What are you talking about? I mean, no, this, I'm done.

Like, here's all my interpretations. I completed everything. Now, they're like, well, how did you do advanced algebra or all this and that? Because I didn't have the grades for that stuff. Right. And what I did was I paid somebody that knew how to do it. Right. Took the test for me.

Pass all the correspondence. And that's it. They were like, they were flipping out. They're like, this can't. Because there's three or four kids started signing up. They're all going to do it too. Right. They're like, well, we can't have this.

Right. So they actually made a law in the county banning this correspondent school in the whole county. But by that point, you'd already... I've already graduated, so I graduated, so I started working. Because my thing was, I was like, I need to go to school, man. I need to work. I need to make money. So I started working at a hotel, and I'm working at Holiday Inn doing banquet set up.

And I run in this guy named Barry. He was like a just classic con man. He's working the front desk. He's like getting people's credit card numbers. He's doing scams. And he takes a liking to me, and he's like, man, let me show you a couple things. He starts showing me how to take people's credit cards and order stuff. And the main reason he was doing it was because guess what?

I'm 16. If we get busted, he gets no trouble. And the 16-year-old gets in trouble. What happens to me? Nothing. Right. So I started doing scams with him. He introduces me to warranty scams and life changes.

What a warranty scams? So, like, for example, these microphones, right? These cameras. They're very expensive, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, so, I mean, what I would do is most companies offer a free warranty. So what we do is we would call these companies up and say, hey, we shipped in a camera to you. And then we would do a reverse address search. We would say, how did you ship it in? We did it by UPS. And UPS. Like, okay, well, do you have a tracking number?

You could provide us proof. We'll just send you a new one. Okay. So I would call UPS up. And then I would sit there and, you know, And it would take several steps. Call UPS up would be the first step. Then I would say, hey, I shipped in Sony, a camera of Sony. They said, oh, what date did you do it? Okay, great. Would you know who signed for it?

I'd write down who signed for it. Now I know on this date a package was signed for by this person. I don't have anything else. They won't give me anything else. Hang up, call right back. Hey, on this date, I had sent a package in and this person signed for it. and it was weighing between this and this. Okay, yeah, I see the package here.

Oh, great, can I get the tracking number? I lost it. Right. They gave me the tracking number. Then I take the tracking number, call back again and ask for a proof of delivery. Hey, here's the full tracking number. Can you send me the proof of delivery? Well, they'd be like, okay, well, how's that work?

You know, they're going to sit with that person's name on it, right? Oh, no, that was just my assistant. He was just shipping it out for me. I can you put my name and my address on it? They would alternate, put my name and address on it. They would either fax it to me or email it to me. Okay. And now I've got a proof of delivery that says,

Charles Hartman, my address, this. Oh, can you put the description of merchandise what was inside of it too? Oh, yeah, sure. Oh, camera, Sony camera. And now that was it. Now I've got a proof of delivery from UPS. I give it to the company.

Company says, well, I don't know. We must have lost it. Right. We'll just replace it or how much did you pay for it? Well, we paid $1,000 for it. It would either cut me a check or send me a check. Right. So between 16 to 21, I probably did, well, over half a million dollars in warranty scams.

Right. Did you ever just mail out another one? What's that? Another, they were. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a lot of times they'll mail me a product, right? You just turn it back in or trade or sell it. You just go sell it.

It was sell it. sell it. I had a network of pawn shops. I come in and like, hey, I got a thousand-dollar camera, give me $500 for it. Yeah, it's not like it's stolen. It's not stolen. And it has a warranty right here. Right. Yeah. And then my problem is, is you can only do your name so many times, right? Yeah. So I started, you know, finding people I can use their address, use their name, next thing you know. And I did that for over five years and never got called. Yeah, I was going to say, it's funny because it's, that, you know, I guess, you know, I mean, that, that, that's obviously a scam. But I'm saying, we'll have, you know, Jess's daughter ordered, like, headphones and wore them for a year, year and a half.

And then they just got worn out. And one day they just stopped. Right. And I just packaged them up. Right. And mailed them back to the place and said, listen. Yeah. And I buy, the whole, I buy all your stuff.

We have. And then I'd go on the website and find other devices that they have. We bought this. We bought this. Blah, blah, blah. These wore out. And I said, if you could just fix them and bill me for it. it, send me the invoice, I'll pay you for it, knowing for them it's $6.

Right. For us, it's a $40 pair of headset. Right. So they just made, they say, oh, thank you very much. Here's a new headset. Right. And that's the same thing, because what happens is the company doesn't want a problem. It's not cash.

Because all I did was get a new headset. You actually get a choice. And I never, I've never done it for $1,000. Or, you know, that would be, I'd rather have a check because now I've got to sell the product. But even if you sold it at a discount. So at a discount, yeah. Six or $800. $600.

And remember at this time, how would have my. I'm 16, 17 years old. It's a lot of money. Yeah, for a kid. I mean, I'm just, I'm living life. Well, until eventually the UPS driver, I had too many packages to get delivered to my house. Right. And the UPS driver was, it was strange.

It was like, all this electronic stuff keeps coming here over and over and over and over again. And then I was like, he asked me one day, he said, what do you order? I was like, oh, we have a wholesale business. Right. And it's just something that's sit well with him. So he turned it into their investigation department. Investigation department turned it into the police department. They start watching.

Next thing you know, I'm sitting there. I'm expecting an amplifier to come. Because car stereos was like, that was the thing back then, right? Like amplifier speakers. And then they would replace them like there's nothing. You could get top dollar for it. You could either sell them to somebody, you know, or whoever. And I would sit there and all of a sudden, I'm sitting there.

I'm like, I'm waiting for this package. because I got a guy waiting to buy it because that was the only thing. As soon as I knew it was shipped, I'd start looking for buyers. Right. And man, I'm sitting there waiting, waiting, waiting. And the next thing you know, like it doesn't come.

And it says, oh, package was held at the UPS center. We missed the thing. You have to come pick it up. It's not good. I'm stupid. I'm thinking, okay, no big deal. You know, I'll go up there and get it. And I walk in, and the moment I walked in,

I seen a guy stand over in the corner and I'm like looking at me weird and next thing you know I came up to the corner and just gave my ID and next thing you know they're like Charles Hartman handcuffed me all right I'm like and I'm at that time now I'm past 18 right so I'm like so I'm like I know I'm getting arrested so they arrested me and they take me downtown and they take me in the room and you know it's the interrogation big interrogation they're like all right tell us where your boss is, tell us who the guy is. I'm like, I'm the guy. Right.

What are you talking about? No, no, no, no, no. Who are you working for? Like, where's all the equipment at? Where are you working for? I'm like, there is no equipment. This is, I don't have anything. It's the first, right?

No, no, no. We know, we've gotten, we've pulled your address and we've gotten, we see you in thousands of packages delivered here and you've gotten all in your area. Who are you working? for. It's like, you know, just snitch is okay. I'm like, like, I would have snitched. I was like, I'm going to jail here. Like, I got nobody to snitch on but myself. And they're just, they're like baffled. They don't know what to charge me with. They don't know to charge me with fraud. They don't know to charge me within, you know, uh, they finally end up charging me with attaining

property on a false pretense. And, and, and I'm like, do they don't even have a, do they have a dollar amount because I'm assuming nothing just for that particular one so all they angered got me for at this point so they they basically take me in front of the magistrate and I'm never been in trouble before master R&R as me lets me go on my own bond I got back on the street detective calls me like a week later he's like I don't even have a lawyer I went to the arraignment and or whatever and I was like I guess we'll get an attorney or whatever and my mom was like I didn't know how serious trouble I was in. Right.

Like... Is that serious trouble? Like, I don't even know. Like, like, they were building a case because they're like, they're like, they have years of this stuff. Like, they're like, you know, we're going to, you know, so they get me to that, it can be back downtown. And then I'm going to an attorney and I guess they're working a deal out. They don't care at this point about what I've done. They just want to know how I did it.

So the deal I strike with them is. Show us how you did it, and you'll walk on probation. Right. So they take me into this room at the UPS center. We go back, we go to meet downtown, we drive it to the UPS center, and there's all these UPS executives sitting there. Like, show us how you scammed us. Right.

I'm like, what? I'm like, we're getting in trouble here? He's like, no, go ahead. It's fine. So I do the scam in front of them. Right. And the guy was like, oh, this is not going to work. This is not how you did it.

He's got to have, you got, because they thought I had like somebody working for UPS on the inside. They're like, our employees are not going to just give you information. I was like, well, they are, pal. So I just sit there and we go through the steps. I call step one, step two, step three, step four. Next thing you know, the guy's face is just like, you can just see the fast face. I was like, son of them. So now, if you ever call UPS, bear it back in the day, they wouldn't even give you no information.

unless you have the full track of number. Right. So anybody here has a package issue, you probably can blame me for that. Right. I was to say, it's funny, my buddy Zach got caught. He was scamming, I want to say Enterprise out of cars. He was getting them to, he had just figured out how to call up, give them a number on a corporate card,

and they would allow you him to, anybody to show up, give them a number, show them an ID, give them the keys of the car and they could just drive off and they of course they would cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars because these guys aren't returning the cars they're just shop shops yeah and they're driving them around for for a couple of for a month or two till the report is stolen and then they're just selling them and chop getting them chopped up but uh it's it's funny too because when they eventually where they were trying to track him down on that the big thing that the investigator was saying was like who are you working for working with on the inside he's like I'm not not working with anybody on the inside. You don't need AI agents, which may sound weird coming from Service Now, the leader in AI agents. The truth is, AI agents need you.

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Right. Exactly. So, you know, I end up getting basically probation and I have to go to like community service and shit. And I'm like, so I basically end up going and getting a job because I got two because I have probation, right? Yeah. You can't. So. And I'm like,

working at like croaker I'm like this sucks like what the what am I doing like this is horrible so I ended up getting hooking on a buddy mine

and he's like look man he's like I know how to do checks if you're if you if you'll work with me we do checks I'm like I don't say well let's go right I was like so he starts showing me how to do check scams

and I'm like so we so because a lot of these in my area up there a lot of these Habib stores, you know, well, mom and pop, little stores, you have no ID needed. You just walk in, you know, on Friday night, hand them your check,

and you just put a little fingerprint right there. Boom. And there you go. You cash it in at the gas station, buy a six pack of beer, and they give you the difference and, you know, no big deal. Right.

Well, what we would do is we would go and we would find companies that had, you know, that were in that area, and we would go after 5 o'clock so the company's closed, so they can't call in, verify it. Right.

And we go in these, you know, small stores, he would put super glue on our fingers right here. Right. Kind of throw the, you know, the, the, the, the sin off, and we put them on just random, we would do, like, small amounts, $436, $396. And we would just go and we would just bang checks in 560 stores in a row every Friday and Saturday and just make money. But are you guys making the checks yourself? Yes.

Yeah, because he had, he had, because he would use. he used quick books, yeah. And so he'd get the routing number. Routing and account numbers. And what we would do is, a lot of times we would, you know,

find people that we knew that worked at normal jobs, have you give you $100 and we take a photocop your check. Right. Now we know what it is. And they have watermarks like they knew now. So it's like,

it's easy. You get the logos, put it on there. Next thing, you know, you print it. Plus these little gas stations, they're not paying attention

to detail, like paper and certain things. Right. Until they get hit a few times. Yeah. Then they start paying attention. But by then, you've already moved on to the next store and you're doing it.

So I did that for like three years. Just like, I had good luck, man. I had good luck. My problem was I started doing drugs. Right. I started doing pills. And then I get sloppy, right?

Because you get sloppy when you start getting on pills because you're, you're needing, you know, now you're, you know, I'm getting a couple hundred dollar a day pill habit. Then it turns into a bigger habit. Then it turns into other drugs. And I was like, so I got to the point where we'd burned our area so bad. I was like, I have to figure something I'll have to do. And I end up hooking up with a, I don't know if you ever remember back in the day the magazine salesman.

Yeah. People that would knock on the doors. Yeah. It's the biggest scam of all time. Yeah. They'd say, hey, I'm winning. I'm making money for a trip, you know, for some. school or I'm going to be this and that.

I was like, and so I didn't have hook up going with them on a job. And I was like, this is the perfect cover. These people travel to a town for a week or two. Then they travel to another town. They're paying for the hotels. So I'm just like literally working part time for them, traveling with them, and I'm just out doing checks in little stores. I'm just like, this is great.

Like, I'm not going to get caught. I mean, because we're not going to be here long enough for by the time, you know, because the check's not going to immediately show back up, right? It takes several days for it to go through, so it's not going to immediately happen. So, I mean, by the time it comes back to the store, we're already in another town. Right. So, I mean, I have, like, a year run doing this. Like, I'm just making money.

And I'm like, there's points where days I'm just going out selling magazines door to door. I'm just out doing checks. And I come back and the manager's like, did you sell anything in a day? I'm like, oh, yeah, I sold two magazines. Here's 90 bucks. Right. Like, I just made $1,000. I mean, like, who cared? Well, the problem was my pill habit got too big. And I got to the point where I wasn't doing checks properly. I was doing it. Now I'm knocking the doors trying to sell magazines, right? I'm trying to make money. And I'm like, I'm like going through people's like bathrooms. Like, hey, I'm doing selling magazines to go to school. and I like they're oh yeah come on in and I come in and back hey can I use your bathroom and they're like yeah yeah yeah I'm going through like their medicine cabinet I remember like

this old lady's like like remember like we're in like in Illinois and I'm like going through this like ladies medicine cabinet looking through pills and I'm like trying to and I end up taking the pills put in my pocket and she went right back in bathroom right afterwards and she's like where's my pills and I like ran out the door and I'm like holy shit like she's like chasing after me And I'm like, and I'm like, oh my God. Like, I'm just, I know I'm, no, I know it's all going to come to an end, right? You know, I mean, eventually, right? So.

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We come to Florida. Now, that old saying about Florida, right? come to forward on vacation, leave on probation, come back on violation. Right. That's, that's me. Like, when you were, I was like, Matt, where do you live? And Tampa's like, fuck. Anywhere about Tampa, God, please.

But I was like, all right, you know, it's fine now. But I was like, so, you know, so we come to, come down here and I, dude, this is right before Christmas. Like, 05, I'm like, dude, I'm so messed up on pills. I end up, like, knocking on the girl's door. And I'm like, hey, I'm something. magazine, do, da, da, da, da, da, let me in. And I walk in, and I go

into the bathroom, you know, doing my good thing around, and I look into the bottom cabinet, she's got freaking just stacks of grass cash pill. I'm like, oh, man, so I'm like, like, oh, my phone rang, my boss is waiting for me, I got to go.

You know what I mean? She fucking starts screaming and hollering, she's like, robbing me, da, da, da, da, da, da. I'm like, oh. But she went in the bathroom right after her again, she realized something. She knew, she knew, she knew, So, so I'm like, I like, she comes right out and I like push her out of the way and I'll just run out the door. And I'm like, and I like run as I'm running, keep in mind, I'm like at this time, I'm over 500 pounds. I'm big now, right?

I've lost a lot of weight since then. I'm over 500, right? You've lost weight since then? Yes. Okay. So I, by the time I went to prison the first time, I was 610. You're 500 pounds running? You're that big when you're doing this?

Yes. Yes. So just imagine this 500 pound guy just like, Like, I ran so fast. My shoe fell off, right? So, like, they found my shoe. Like, ha. And, like, I'm, like, going down the hill.

So my, I call my manager, and he picks me up. He's like, what are you doing? I was like, oh, this dog tried to attack me and stuff. And, like, I'll have my shoe. And so he took me a Walmart to get me another pair of shoes. So, like, I ended up, like, five hours. I'm going back to work, right? I'm like, all right, nothing happened.

you know, no big deal, you know. We're going over to the next town over. I don't think it's in any way. I don't realize this is all the same county. So they got like APBs out of all of us. Like people selling magazines, trying to figure out what's going on. Next thing I know,

cops just surround me. Guns don't... See how they know it was me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't me. The other fat guy, wasn't me, you know. So I'm like, so I end up getting...

So they busts me and arrest me. And they charged me with burglary. They charged me with a burglary of an occupied dwelling with a battery. Well, in Florida, that's a PBL. Okay. What's a PBL? Punishable by life. Oh, shit.

I don't feel like, did you burglar? You didn't break in. She invited you in, but that's how they look at it. But that's, once you cross a dwelling and someone's asked you to leave or you commit a battery in Florida inside of a dwelling, you're done. Yeah, because, I mean, that's, so then, but here comes the worst part. Now, checks, they start finding out about checks. They found out because my name, my name was, there are certain times I would use my ID. These checks I'd try cashing.

Right. And I had some in Putton County. I had, you know, some down here in Hillsborough. And they were just like, oh, what's all these checks and warrants you got everywhere? I'm like, oh. So I knew I was done. Like, so now, I mean, I end up going into late county jail. and like I'm sitting there for like three days.

You know, I'm just like going through withdrawals, which is the worst thing to do in jail. If you're going through, you're just like hugging a toilet. You don't want to be around it. You're just like, you feel like crap. Well, I end up basically I'm sitting there and I'm just like, feel like I'm with death. And I finally start getting my senses back now, you know.

You know, and now the next day I know, I go and this public defender comes and sees me. It's right after Christmas. I'm sitting there. She's like, well, I think I might be able to get you 40. Oh, my God. 40, what? Yeah.

40 days? She's like, no, no. She's like, you've got a punishable about life. She said, we might be to get you, you know, she said, that's a pun, you know, I'm like, there's a burglary inside of a dwelling with a lady. And I was like, there was a drug. I'm like, look, look, this is all you're charged with. I was like, well, you're fired.

Right. I called home to my mom. I was like, they're trying to stick me down here. Like, she thought that, okay, is this going to be on another little instant, a little slap on the wrist? Another probation. A little probation, you know, I'm not coming home. Right. Like, you know, 40 years is life.

I mean, that's a long time. And so they were, so they went. and I started asking around, you know, who's a good attorney. He gets me, they find me a good attorney there. Right. And he's like, look, he's like, you know, he's like, oh, he's like, just, you need to just sit. You need to let them forget about you. Right.

And just, you know, work as a trustee, do whatever, hang out, just stay. Stay out of trouble. Pay out of trouble. And gain signatures in there as a trustee. Yeah. And just be good. And I sat for like a year. and how what did he charge you uh fee 20 okay yeah that sounds uh for a good for first it's funny

because like it's like a federal attorney you know and then they want like 50,000 off the rip at least you know yeah for for and that's just to start with then they're going to start milking milking the time the investigators yeah everything but but a state attorney i was thinking yeah 15 or 20 yeah 20 you get a good yeah 20 20 20 you're going to go home you know what i mean it's either you either you're going to give them 20 or you're give the state 20. Right. One of the two. So, so we, I sat and during this time, like, I make good for the officers. So I'm likable, you know what I mean?

I'm not in there for fucking murder. You know what I mean? I'm not a child molester. You know what I mean? It's easy, you know what I mean? Do your time, keep your mouth shut. You know, no one bothers you. And I'm in there, and I end up working as housemen for a couple of housemen.

Officers, and they, uh, Officer Pollock and Officer Brown are there. So if you guys ever Google it, Lake County officers bringing in drugs and contraband. They're bringing in drugs and contraband to us. We're selling it and getting them money back. I feel like that's illegal. I mean, it's frowned upon at least. It's frowned upon, but then the funniest part is I'm sitting there. I'm supposed to go to court for like two or three months, and they just keep getting, I keep

get my attorney to push it back. I'm like, because I'm making money while I'm in jail. I'm like, plus two, I'm getting good time. And I'm like, you know, and then they're even writing letters or reference for me too. And I'm like, you know, this will be great. I'm going to, you know, oh, yeah, you'll probably, we'll probably get you down to probation or something. You know what I mean? But well, well, it ends up coming and out, basically, that comes in me and says, look, he said, the best I can get you is three in and a spend his. sentence with 20. But you'll be home in, at that point

you'll be home in two years. I'm like, well, fuck, man. I was like, whatever. You know what I mean? I mean, this is the best we're going to get, the best we're going to get. Yeah. I mean, the dams are better than 40.

Right. So I end up, so I end up signing it. Signing it and going to prison. And I get to prison. And it's a whole other world. We're not in Lake County, Florida anymore. I mean, we're walking around. I mean, I get off the bus and I'm like, holy shit.

What have I got myself in? Like, it's starting to roll out on me. Like, there's no guarantee you're going home. Right. Like, where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be. This winter, stay warm.

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WestJet, where your story takes off. Like, you're in prison here. You get sent to what, what, they have a, I thought, is it, they call it a train. Transfer station? Yeah, so the first time I went to prison in Florida, they sent me to Orlando, to land a reception. Reception, that's what they call reception. And they mix you in with guys that have life sentences

and guys that are doing two months. Two months. So you're in open bay in like the first day you're there. You're going through like it's cattle prodding. They're just sending you through and they're just trying to figure out where they're going to send you. And I mean, I remember like being in there like and like the officer walking through and the guy who was in there was a chomo and he would be like chomo and bunk 21 chomo and bunk 21 and i'm sitting there like holy shit well i'm taking my coffee break i'm be gone for the next

couple hours yeah and you know you already know what time it is so it's all bad for that it's all bad and and like i'm just and i mean i'm the good thing at that point is i'm a pretty big dude So I'm like, okay, at least I got to worry about, someone's going to like jump on top of me here, I don't think. You know what I mean? Right. So, you know, I ended up going to my first camp. They sent me to Cross City CI.

It's like medium, maximum security level camp. And I get there and I meet my buddy Nick and come dear friends to him this day. And he basically is like showing me the ropes. He's like, hey man, you just got to, here. I'll get you working in the kitchen. I was like, man, you'll fit in perfectly with us, man. You know, we run the kitchen, you know, everything will be good. Like, all right.

I get into kitchen and, man, I walk in, it looks like they got an operation going on. They got, they got sandwiches they're making on the table. They got food. But what is this for, like, outside people? Almost for us to sell in the compound. Right. Like, what? Like, what are you guys doing?

And they're, so they're, like, wrapping up these cheeseburgers. And they start wrapping up all these different little cheese. And one guy says, hey, come here, big guy. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, come here. And he did you do them. They take the saran wrap and wrap these cheeseburgers around my belly. Underneath my belly.

My belly is like this big. And underneath it, like the little punch right there. I got like 10 cheeseburgers wrapped. And they were like, they're like, just when you go out, the guards are going to patch you down. But you're so big, they're not going to fill that. They're going to let you go. So I'm like the first day, I'm like carrying like 20 cheeseburgers off

compound and next that's how i you got to name cheeseburger in prison so they probably liked you too they thought we could this guy's worth 20 a day oh this guy this guy this guy's our meal ticket you know he's go hey you know and so i never got no problems i've you know you know i'm a fin in how i get in because i know look look i'm here for two years i got to do this two years i'm going to get out of here yeah and i mean during that time me and nick could become really tight and nick's tell me get in there for fraud forgery so yeah of kinsured spirits yeah kindred spirits we're just hanging out he's telling me he's living in he goes in Vegas he's just like man this is great yeah we'll hang you know he's like man you got to come hang out you know people are in prison oh yeah when you get out

you know yeah yeah and after like a wall you're like okay sure nick you know what i mean so he leaves you know he he oh yes is two weeks later i get an envelope from him hey man here's my address boom boom I sent you some money on your books. Amy, if you ever need nothing, I'm here for you. You know, solid dude, right? Yeah. So I end up finishing my time. I know, me, Matt, I know that I'm not going to do probation.

Right. Like, I know I'm going to fuck this up. Right. Like, I know this is not going to end well for me. I have a 20-year spend of a sentence. This is not going to end well for me. Oh, yeah. That's not good at all because if you fuck up, you could end up with doing the 20.

I could do the 20 plus if I catch new charges. is they can enhance these sentence. Okay. See, Florida has the craziest law ever. You ever heard the reoffender act in Florida? No. So this is how it works. So if you get out of prison in Florida,

within three years of you getting out, you catch any charge, they can 10 times your recommended sentence. So you could end up, 85% of people that are in Florida's system right now are on probation violations. it's not new charges it's not like right like yeah they call

they call it they call a burglary charge which usually be like five years right well now they're going to get 15 15 20 years on top of whatever their violations are because it's a system to make money yeah because you know the state that's how I mean

U283395 made them a lot of money that was my prison them made them a lot of money every time that's the reason they do prison council Florida three times a day because every time that they count your number they're they're billing the state. So I'm like, man, I know this is not going to work out. I got to figure something out. So I end up, I'm trying to go back home to Virginia, it was the original plan. But they tell me, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, you have to transfer your probation. I'm not from here. They're like,

well, you got to pick somewhere to go. And you mean, I don't live here. They're like, well, pick a county, pick somewhere to go, find a halfway house, figure, or something. So I ended up basically ended up coming to St. Pete because I had a friend that I knew living in St. Pete. And I couldn't end up staying there. I ended up staying in a shelter for two days until I can meet my probation

officer. Oh, that sucks. So you're fresh out of prison. You're thinking, oh, man, now I'm in a, I'm in a shelter. These guys are doing more drugs than they were on the street. I'm like, this is great. So I'm like, I got to get out of here. So I go meet the probation officer

He walks in He's got this big stack here He said all these right here These are the ones that have failed This Upper way here Those are the ones that have passed Which one you think you're going to end up in

I was like I don't want to go I want to go back to home Virginia He's like well we're going to get approved by the state That's going to be 60 to 90 days You'll have to stay here And 60 90 days you're going to violate me Right. Like, I'm not going to make it.

I'm not going to make it. I mean, I don't have a job. I don't have no family down here. I have no support system. I'm going to, I'm going to screw this up. So I'm like, well, look, can I get a travel pass at least go home to see my mom? You know what I mean?

And do this and that. And he's like, all right, all right, I give you a probable pass. You come back, be back in 30 days. So I know when I come back to see him, I got 30 days coming back to see him. That means I got 29 days, Matt, to get you. gone and get gone where my mom going and not coming back from. Right. So I basically went home, seeing my mom for a couple days. I was like, she's like, what are you going to do? I'm like, I'm going to run. That's what I'm going to do. I'm not staying here. What about,

why not get a job? I'm just, just curious. Uh, mindset at that moment was that I'm not getting a job. I'm not going back to making minimum wage and they were talking about probation. You're going to have to pay this fee, that fee, this fee, that fee. I'm like, holy shit. Yeah, it's funny. The state's always charge you. The federal feds don't charge you, but the state does. Yeah. So by the time I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm like, 90% of my income is going to go back to the state here. I'm never, I'm never going to make it. Right. What about an ID? Are you thinking, like, how are you thinking? How are you thinking you going to pull this off? So I don't have any really money, right? So I call him Bunny Nick. I'm like, he's like, do you come out to Vegas? He's like, I'm busting checks already. I'm like, I'll be there.

I'm got it. I'm right there. So I fucking, I, now, I've got a 20-day lead, so I have to be back to probation. So I know, so I get to Vegas. I take a Greyhound because I don't want to take an airline because I want to records. You go up at Greyhound, you pay cash for a ticket. Right. Took a three-day Greyhound to get to Vegas.

I get to Vegas and Nick's got a check scam just booming. It's like getting in how you fit in. Let's go. Let's go make money. What's he doing? So what we're doing is he's going around. He's getting homeless guys. My God.

And he's cleaning them up. And he's taking them to, like, the casino in places like that. And, you know, using them to cash in because casinos will give you free play when you cash in your check there. They'll also give you, like, sometimes a 10% bonus or 10%, you know, Vig or whatever. Just to get you. What's scumbag? Just to, they want. Like just to get you to come straight from work, give us your paycheck and blow it here at the casino.

Exactly. So he's taking these homeless guys, cleaning them up, taking them out. He's got an ID machine. He's got, you know, he's got, you know, printer. He's making bus and checks. And he's just like, we're just getting routing numbers and accounting numbers. And he's just taking them. And we're just going from Vegas all the way up to Reno and just hitting them, hitting them, hit them, hit them.

And so how much was each homeless guy worth? Probably probably 10 to 15 grand. Hmm. I can't believe. Really the casinos. They're the bad and they threw you in prison. Yeah, yeah. It's really them.

They're horrible. They are. I agree to this day. But how much does a homeless guy get? You know, we would get a check for like 500 bucks. We'd always keep small amounts. So you go up there and they cash them. And what we would do is, so imagine this, we would pull into Reno.

We'd find a homeless guy. You know, we'd go to a hotel, get him cleaned up. Nick would run a Walmart, grab some clothes, some cheap Walmart clothes, you know, khakis, polo, so he looks decent. Yeah. because there's the camera's in the bathroom, hand me the money, and then, you know,

tell them to go back outside to the car, you know what I mean? 15, 20 minutes later, I come right back out to the car. Go to the next casino and just keep doing this over and over again. And because the thing is, is they're not going to pay attention to it

if it's one name, right? It's one name. And then the thing is, is half the times we wouldn't have to make IDs. They would just use the homeless, because homeless guys, crazy as them to themselves, They don't have IDs.

Yeah, they don't, they don't care. Like, they're thinking by the end of the day, if they're going to cash 10 of these, they're going to get $5,000, you're going to give them, what, $1,000? Yeah, some like $1,000, a couple hundred bucks each check. They're going to, they're going to be set. They're not thinking, they're not thinking about tomorrow. They're not thinking about next week. I've got to spend a month in jail.

Right, right. And so this goes on. And I remember, like, when Friday night, we were like looking for a week, we didn't have routing account numbers. We were out. So we're like one behind this like check a cash place. We're like inside the dumpster of like digging through, looking for receipts, looking for paperwork, looking for anything.

Here comes a cop car down. So me and Nick are like crouched inside this dumpster like hiding. Cops is like driving by and I'm thinking and at this time already I've already not showed back up for probation so I already know I got a warrant for probation dangling over my head.

and I'm like, it's like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. And I had no excuses, man, because I had saved a bunch of money, right? I could have ran. The plan was make a bunch of money with Nick and I was just going to just go disappear. Well, you get the adrilling and rush more and more and more and more. And it's working. You start feeling invincible. Like, I can't be stopped, you know?

And then we end up going into this one little spot near Elko. And man, we go in this. and we get a hotel room and we go out. It's so easy to find guys out there like that. You know, walking around, hey man, you want to make some money? And the guy's like, what are you going to do? I'm like, just come with us and cash some checks. So we didn't do it.

And we get to like the third casino. And I see like something's not right. Like the guys like standing there too long. You know what I mean? The next day I know I see these security guards come up and they grab him. Well, time to run again. Right. That's,

time to go. So I'm like, look, get back a car. Nick, we got to go. I mean, we're going to leave him,

you know, so we're like literally driving back to his hotel. And like, we get back to his hotel and we got all this, we had checks here, we got IDs,

we got, you know, money started out. Like, we're like throwing stuff in the car complaint. It's not going to be long until. Yeah,

I was going to say, does a homeless guy know where you guys were out of? Yeah, yeah, because he went, we take him there to clean him up.

Yeah. So it's not going to be long. And here comes the troops. Yeah. And like, but the thing was, Nick would always go get them their own room. So they, he didn't know which room that we were in.

We were just there. Right. Or sometimes he would act like we, oh yeah, this is our room here. You know what I mean? And so all of a sudden, we're sitting there

and we just look out the window. We see these two cop cars pull up. Shh, like, see the homeless guy in the back of the car. I'm like, oh, God, this is not good. It's that room right there. And they go to the room that we get for him.

And we're in the other room, like, right there from God. I don't know that Nick's got a gun. Oh, this is getting worse. And so Nick's got a gun. And I'm like, what are you going to do with a gun? Did they go shoot out with the cops? Like, what are you doing? What's the Wild West, bro?

Like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm going back to prison, bro. I'm like, oh, my God. God, this is where life ends for me. Like, I'm like, this is crazy. Why do you have this? What are you doing? Just put that shit away.

Like, we're going to, we're going to walk out of here. And we're going to get a car and drive away. We waited for, like, an hour. Because they went and they looked through the room. They looked around. They couldn't figure it out. You know what I mean? Where we're at.

So, basically, they laughed. They felt the guy was maybe just lying. Maybe he didn't really have accomplices. You know what I mean? Right. Whatever. We leave. I'm like, we get back to Vegas.

And I'm like, And Nick's like, oh, we'll figure something else. And I was like, you know, I'm going to figure something out away from you. Because, like, I didn't know that you were going to go to that extreme. Like, it's one thing, it's like checks and stuff like that. Like, dude, I'm not trying to have a shootout with cops. Yeah. Like, this, dude, like, let's, come on, man.

That's saying no. So, like, it was like the classic end of a great movie with us. Like, we're like, he's going to go this way. I'm going to go this way. Nick, like, it's been fun, man, but I got me away from you. So I'm like, I got to have money. So I got a nice chunk of money saved. I'm like, I need to get.

What's a long chunk of money? Probably, probably close to 200. Oh, okay. That is a nice. I mean, for me, more than I thought, yeah. Yeah, because I was, I was just stacking it up. Right. So I go to Mexico.

I crossed the border. I'm like, I'm just going to, my plan is I'm going to Tijuana. I'm going to hang out here and I'm going to drop down eventually down and just hang out. Because I know I've charges now. I've figured I've gotten charges. I know I got at least a minimum of 20. I'm not coming back. So how do you, when you say,

what do you just walk across the border? So with Greyhound back of the day, they would literally drive you, because that was before the, before they passed the laws where you had to do your passport, immigration card, you know what I mean?

You literally just walk across the border. Nice. So I'm in Tijuana. I'm like in revolution, right off revolution, which is like the big party strip. I find a house that's like an apartment complex and it's like a bunch of Americans that are living there. And they're all living there rent super cheap and working in San Diego.

And they're just crossing the border. Like every morning in San Diego, if you look at the border, the line is wrapped around the room because people live in Tijuana and work in San Diego because of the cost of living. I find this house, this apartment complex and the lady's like, oh, yeah, you back $200. I'm thinking she's like $200 a week. She's like $200 a month. I'm like, oh, well, here, you know what I mean? No problem. Here's a couple months of worth of rent.

So I'm like hanging out and I meet guys in her and I'm like, I got to get an ID. And you can start talking to people and it doesn't take long to get an ID. Right. And is this, you're getting a fake ID. A fake, I know, but is it a U.S. ID? Yeah, like a state. Yeah, just state, California. Okay.

And so, you know, he takes me to this little shop. A couple hundred bucks later, he's like, yeah. He said, I'm like, yeah. He said, this is good for you just have this for, you know, for down here. He's like, but if you try to get across the border with it, it's not going to work. And I mean, this is good for just here. Like, all right, he was working on getting me a really good one for I could use whole one to travel back and forth. Well, I'm there, man, for like two months.

And I start noticing, like, the Mexican, the police are watching me more and more. And I start getting nervous because I'm like, I'm hearing by all these Americans. Eric can be getting kidnapped, you know, either cartel or whoever. And I'm like, I'm hanging out down there. I'm hanging out at the bar every night. Like, and I'm spending money. I'm flashing money. I'm like, this is not good.

I'm going to, something's going to happen. Either I'm going to get kidnapped, we get robbed. You know what I mean? So I decide, I'm going to go back across the border. So I just, I had my buddy just drive me back across the border. And I'm like, I got to hope my ID. And I know I'm about to use my real ID. So I'm a friend.

and they don't actually run it. Because they run it, I'm done. Right. So, like, we go with, like, a busy kind of time. And we're just sitting there looking like, oh, yeah, just came back from Mexico. And they just look at us. Go ahead. U.S. citizens, go ahead.

I got lucky. All right. I get across the border. Well, I'm back in California. So I'm like, what am I going to do? I still have a little bit of money. You know what I mean? But I can't.

I can't. I'm going to get a job now. Now I'm going to go get a job. I didn't get a job then. What am going to do now? So I go back to what I know I go back to I call a magazine crew

I'm like hey you're looking for somebody you know some magazines they're like yeah yeah yeah yeah they send me a ground ticket next thing I know I'm back on the ground I go to a magazine I'm selling magazines

and I'm walking around I have this remember I have this fake ID right this one fake ID so I'm using this and I go for like a year man working to sell magazines

just just hanging out doing the magazine crew and I know I've got, you know, shit in Florida. I've got warrants here in Virginia. You know what I mean? I'm like, I know eventually I'm going to get called. You know what I mean?

Yeah. You know, and one faithful day, I knock on the door. And I'm like, hey, we're selling magazines. And it was a cop. Right. And he was like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm selling a magazine. Well, you have a permit?

I'm like, permit. What's a permit? And the guy's like, oh, you need a permit to do this. Like, I'm like, I don't know. I work for this guy. I was like, this is the permit they said I need to have. And I was like, no, man, this is, nah. Now, we've heard about you guys coming and scam.

And you know what I mean? Because it's all a big scam, right? But you get, they pay you some money. They never get a magazine. No, no, no, no. The scam always was, was with the magazines door door was you would tell them, you would say, hey, you're going, hey, the person, I'm going to school in the area. I'm, you know, I'm working to go out to win a trip somewhere, blah, blah, blah.

Right. I was always a big guy, right? So I was like, yeah, I'm going to coronary school. I'm going to be a chef. I was like, you know why you can't ever trust a skinny chef, right? And they're like, well, why is that? Because they don't eat their own food. I ate my own food.

You can trust me, right? You'll get your magazine. And the guy was like, and they're paying like $40 for these magazines. They're overpriced magazines. But it's like when you buy stuff from kids from fundraisers, right? It's overpriced. Well, they never give them a magazine. You're getting a cut off of the money.

And these guys are making bank. Right. And they've got, you know, 30, 40 kids working for them. And they're not going in front. They're not knocking on the doors. They don't have to do anything but kick back. Then kick back. And then they got, and the thing is, at the end of the day, all these kids, you've got 20, 30 kids making, you know, $5,600 a day for you.

It adds up very quickly. Right. I knock on the door and a cop's like, you know, man, where's your ID? And I gave him this ID. The fake one? Yeah. I mean, I'm going to get my real one. I didn't even carry my real one with me.

I always left the little one at the hotel. What state are you in? Still California? No, I'm in Boise, Idaho. Oh, there's a chance he doesn't even know what a California ID looks like. Right, right, right. Well, he runs it. He runs it, and he runs it, and he goes, and it comes back on file, not file.

Right. He's like, that's weird. He said, you at least come back on file. I was like, I don't know. I don't know, man, I don't know. He's like, so he almost lets me go. Like, at that point where he almost lets me go. Right.

And he's like, something's saying, send me. right with this man hold on he calls he calls down to the station they send a unit they bring him in and ask me my name my birthday what's not coming up in the system so they're like come on we're just going to run your prints real quick man you know and I'm like up I'm done and so they're like they get me in the car and they're like last chance to tell us who you really are I'm like all right Charles Hartman in 119 I mean they're like oh ding Positive 51. Ding. Positive 51. Warrant. Active warrant. Transportational warrant. Oh. This is Florida, dude. Oh, they probably ain't going to come get you. Why didn't you just tell us, man. I was like, I don't know. I was like, yeah.

They're going to come get me. Yeah, they're going to come get me. And he's like, and so they take me to the Boise Jail. And I go in front of the judge and sign up the little thing, you know, to get transferred back to Florida. They said, well, they have 30 days to come get you. If they don't get you, you'll get released. Nice. I'm like, okay. So, 28 days go by. I'm like, yes, I'm going to get out of here, man.

I'm getting out of here. 29 days go by. I'm like counting it on the head, right? At the 30th day, they're like, Hartman, roll it up. I'm like, but usually if they're taking you down to be transported, right, they'll cuff you. They tell you to roll it up and roll it up all the way.

That means you're leaving. Right. They tell me roll it up all the way. I thought maybe up out of here. I'm, nope, I'm good. I'm walking down, round the corner, see two friendly,

to smile and detect us from Lake County. You're like, hey, Charlie. I'm like, son of a bitch. I knew, I knew I was done. So, and look, I was like, oh, look, they got their job to do. They're not, they're not trying no problems.

Yeah. They're like, look, man, we'll take you, we get you something neat. We're going to, we're going to fly. I was like, we're driving back to Florida? I'm like, no, we're flying. Like, okay.

I'm like, but we're going to Cleveland first. I was like, I don't have charges in Cleveland. Like, what are we talking about? He's like, no, he's like, the way we work, man, is when we pick you guys up like this and you guys are spread out like this, we'll pick up a second one in another city to make it worth, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, okay, so we get to Cleveland, we fly.

So we get into, first we get to Boise at the airport. And man, like, you're talking about walking straight onto a plane? Like there's rock star, yeah, I was straight on there. nobody's on the plane. We're sitting there. One's here. One's behind me. They uncuff me.

And they're like, don't give us no problems, man. I'm like, dude, look. They're like, oh, you're probably not going to get that much time anyway. They don't know the case.

They just know it's probation violation. Yeah. Yeah, they don't know, like, I'm fitting to get, I'm going to get murdered when they get back. And he's like, all right, cool, man. Just go to, you know,

just be cool, man. We get to Cleveland. They're being real relaxed to me. We pull into this Cleveland. the Cleveland jail. When I tell you, I was the only white dude there, it was not a good situation.

Right. And I was like, oh, this is not good. They didn't even want to leave me. Like, they're like, oh, oh, sorry. Well, we'll have McDonald's in the morning for you, kid. Good luck.

I'm like, son of it. But now, I go in, everything's fine. It's just normal jail, right? Well, they go to release me out in the morning to come downstairs. Well, they didn't screw up with the paperwork. They put me in the release pile to release me to the street. So I'm about ready to go to the streets of Cleveland when I'm supposed to be putting in a holding cell.

Right. So I'm in this, like, group, and they're letting us out five at a time. And I'm like, holy shit, I'm about ready to go. I'm going to, I don't know what I'm going to do. But I was like, I can't get in trouble. They let me go. Right. Right.

Like, I'm not, I'm not escaping. They're telling me to. leave. I'm not going to stay here. So I'm like talking to this guy, man, man, you live right here? He's like, yeah, it's like, hey man, if I gave you a couple hundred bucks or something, man, could you take me your, can I use your phone, right? I could get some money wired to me and stuff and everything. He's like, it's like, I ain't supposed to be getting released right now. He's like, yeah, I got you. I mean, like criminals are always like, you can tell someone will help you, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, all right, so I'm sitting there and there's

like slowly letting everybody out and it's down to like me and like two other people and they're like what's your name like uh hartman like yeah i got a member rides waiting for me he's like they're like no no man you're up here's to be over there kid so they take me they take me in and put me in the cell and i'm in there with this other guy and he's the guy we came to pick up so so i'm sitting there I'm laughing because they come, they come like 15, 20 minutes later. They put handcuffs, take us there.

They fly us to Orlando. I told him, I was like, I was like, dude, I was going to do? I was going to do? I'm going to figure it out.

I'm going to figure it out. I ain't going to be here for y'all. So, do you know how much paperwork and hell this would have been? I was like, yeah, but it would have been fun.

Yeah. So I get there and, man, I get to, I get to, I get to, I get to Lake County. And I mean,

I know I'm done, right? I know I've got spend a sentence. I already know what time. I know I'm minimum, I'm getting 20. You know, I got other charges I've called. You know what I mean? In between. You know what I mean? So I don't know what they're going to do. So I'm just sitting there and I'm like, well, yeah, I already

hit my mind like, this is it. You know what I mean? You know, you know, and my lawyer, he comes down and he's just like, just hang out, just chill. New lawyer? Or same lawyer? Same lawyer. Same lawyer. He's like, just relax. He's like, yeah, he's like, I want to, he said, you know, he's like he said um give me 10 he said if you give me 10 i promise you you will not you will not you will not you will not do all that time so i call mom she arranged it got him to the money and i'm thinking i'm thinking man this better this better work better work and he's like it's like yeah he's like he's like i think i can get you i think i can get you just the 20 i'm like gave you 10 what do you

mean. I was like, maybe he was, he was screwing with me. He knew what he had already done. Right. He's like, just, just hang out. He said, oh, we'll go to court. We'll go to court tomorrow. So I'm going to court. I'm like, in my mind, said, I'm already, all right, I'm fitting to go. I know I'm going back to prison. I'm going to be at least, you know, 20. I'm just going to, you know, because at point, I mean, you're, you're going to do. You know what I mean? You're going to do. You have no defense. Right. You have no defense. There's no, there's no, there's no, it's not like I'm sorry for what I did. you know, when I can't say those people are like, oh, I'm so sorry, I did that, Your Honor. I'm like, really?

They don't, they don't. That doesn't, they don't. That doesn't affect him. No, no. They hear that every day. They hear that 40 times a day with people that are much better at crying and pleading and have real excuses. Right. I was like, I was, I was an asshole.

That was my excuse, Your Honor. I like, and so I was like, man, I was like, man, let me just go in here. Let me just did this. and we get in there and he pulls us aside and they had these like cells where like cage cells where you could talk to your attorney. Yeah.

And first thing he goes on and he says, when you get inside, you say yes ma'am, no ma'am, and shut the F up. Like, I was like, well, I thought I'm, I don't know this is I have Judge Hill. So what am I selling Judge Hill a woman for? He's like, Judge Hill's not in there.

Just be quiet. Judge Hill and Lake County, Florida is famous. They call him Hangum High Hill. Right. He loves giving his sentences out. He gives decades out. He said literally in his campaign to be judge, he'll give him a million years out before he retires. Yeah, I've heard about this guy.

Yeah. I think he's given out more than a million dollars. More than a million. Yeah. So. His goal was I wanted to have. His goal was I want to give out more than, I plan on giving out more than a million years. And he's actually surpassed that, way, way past that.

Yeah. So I know, like, I know the judge, I know the prosecutor. know what's going to happen to me. Well, I'm sitting there, man. I'm like, man, it's going there and I know it's a female judge, young, young female judge too. Like, she just got appointed. And it's a different prosecutor. I'm like, and they're like, Mr. Hartman, here's, and he's saying all these affidavits over and all this paperwork over and everything and all these witnesses and everything. I'm like, of my character and how I've changed my life. None of what you None of my I have.

I was like, there was a thing from the pastor and there. I'm like, what is this? Like, oh, Mr. Hartman, I see, you know, you're really trying to change your life and get better. We're going to go on the sentencing guidelines. And the sentencing guidelines guided out the four years Department of Corrections with time served. All I had to do is go do my four years. So, wait, wait, and that would end the probation? because he found a loophole in the way the probation was written,

so they went back and they originally sent us to me just to four years. So I'm getting four years with time credited from the county time. So I got like three years ago doing I go home. Right. I'm like, I can't sign this fast enough. I'm like, yes, ma'am, and we're going to put you in drug court when you go in. I'm like, yes, ma'am, make the best of your life. Yes, ma'am.

I'm out door. I'm like, and like when you're, like, I'm like sitting there like skipping back across the thing. And I was like, what happened? I thought you were going to get time. I was like, man, I don't know. He's like, that's crazy. He said, I wouldn't say another when you go inside, I mean, because everyone don't think you snitched. There's no way that your sentence gets converted down at cheap.

So I was like, yeah, right. So I started thinking about it. I only, I ain't going to say nothing, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, because. Just got 20. Yeah, I'm just going to go just, yeah. Because when it's that kind of time, you don't ask them, like, how to go.

Right. You know, so I just kind of was solemn, just sitting around. And I was waiting to go to prison. Because I figured I was going on the prison run that week. Well, the prison run goes, comes, they don't take me. Like, this is weird. I should be, I should be back at a, I should be back at a landau, you know, today. Well, the following week comes, that thirsty comes, and I get called back to court.

I'm like, this is weird. like, why am I going back to court? Like, I don't have cases here. Well, I get to end up calling in and Judge Hills there. He's sitting there. He asked me where my attorney was. And I was like, I don't know. I ain't seen him since last week.

I never plan to see him again, to be honest with you. He's like, well, Mr. Hartman, I don't know what your attorney did. I'll have a word with him later. But if I ever see you back in my court again, don't plan to leave. it's like, okay, okay, yes, sir. He said, if I ever see you back in the court again, he said, you won't be going home. Right.

I'm like, he got pissed because my attorney did was he moved, he had the case moved to a different judge for sentencing, and it moved when he was on vacation, because he was on vacation a week before. Right. He was supposed to originally sentence me that Thursday. He got it moved to a different judge. And so, and once you're sentenced,

you can't be sentenced again. Yeah. It's done. Like, so I end up going, I end up going, and I'm, I end up going out, and then they, they tell me, oh, you have a charge in Putton County for a check, for my old check that popped up. You have to go up and deal with that. So they sent me up there, and then I end up dealing with that. They ran it concurrent.

They're like, okay, you're just going to go, you'll go to Lake County from here, and you'll start your prison time. Well, I go to prison, Lake County, way different than the, Orlando, that's for sure. If you ever heard of Lake Butler CI. Yeah. It's not the place to be. No.

No. And the judge has put it in my file, I'm a menace. Right. And I need special treatment. So they were special to like to be really, really nice to you? Oh, the hands on treatment. They want to make sure they want to make sure I adjusted well. Right.

Yeah. So first couple, first couple days of just getting smacked around. in the face and just, and what can you do? You can't, we don't fall out of form, complain to somebody. Like, no.

Right. You're going to take this, shut up. So I'm sitting here and I'm, I'm supposed to score out to like minimum, like minimum security. I'm just like able to go to work release. Right.

No, no. He sent me to FSP. Okay. Florida State Penitentiary. This is the same place where they have death row. Right. They sent me to a max, institution. I'm like, oh, he's a nonviolent. Nonviolent person. They're just sticking it to me.

Right. I get, I get off the bus and the guys looking at me, he's like, who did you piss off? Because there's no way you're supposed to be here. Right. Well, your credits, your scores are too low. Like, I went to a medium. I scored out to a camp. Right. But in my case, I had too much time to go to a camp. Right. You only got four years. Right. I'm supposed to go to a work camp, work for six to nine months, and then go outside the gate work there and then eventually go to work release. All right. No, he made sure that didn't happen. What did Zach's, one of the guards, or the guy, one of the guards in SIS and the,

Zach's case put down that he was like, not a gang member, something, oh, that he was a sovereign citizen. So they moved him to a pen because these guys file paperwork and gave everybody a hard time. So you're a sovereign citizen, you might as well be like a violent gang member. you're done. You're a troublemaker. So he must have said something. Yeah,

oh, he put the paperwork. He, I was completely screw jobs. So, so, you know, so I go in there and, Matt,

to be honest with you, when I got there, nothing really changed because I was just like, okay, now I'm thinking three years and back out. Right.

Be back to my normal shit. You know what I mean? Figure out what else. I'm going to get it. Well, this time now, you're going to have probation. So start all over again.

And it was to a point where I got, I hooked up an old timer named Joe and he started really talking to me and and he was like, man, you realize you're, you're doing a life sentence, right? Like, what do you mean? No, I'm not.

I'm getting out in three years. What are you talking about? He's like, no, man, you're three years here, two years here, three. You're just doing it on the installment plan. You should just go ahead and go out and murder somebody and get it over with and come back and then that way we'll be roommates forever. All right. Like, fuck.

Like, you started dawning on me. Like, I got to turn this shit around. Like, I got to figure out how to use my brain from 14 to now has been how to scam, and I got to figure out how to do it different. Right. And. How to scam better or how to do life better? Both.

Okay. But scam, but to do a legal scam. Okay. Find the right way to do it. And he's like, dude, dude, you're like a salesman. You're ready to sell them. You should be in sales. And I'm like, I didn't even think about it.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to be in sales. So I was like, I was like, I need a fresh start. I'm finishing my sentence. They're asking me where I want to go. So I want to go to Vegas. I was like, because I'm like, at least there I know it's a 24-hour city. You know Nick?

No, Nick's there. No, Nick's gone. Nick's gone. Where's whatever happened to Nick? You don't know? No, I'm good friends. He's in New York. He's still, he's in New York.

Yeah. He's hanging out. And he's a guest of the state. Right. Okay. But I knew Vegas very well. Right. I didn't want to go back home to Rone Oak because I was like, I'll be around the same friends, same stuff. If I go to Vegas, I could start fresh.

It's a 24-hour city. I'm not going to have a driver's license so I can get around on the bus. You know what I mean? You know, and I knew some people, you know what I mean? So I figured it was a good place to get a fresh start. Right. So like this time I go and I go to a halfway house, I go to a program. and like, and I get there and I'm like, man, I like, I started realizing, like, I can change.

I can, I just got to, I just got to turn this in a way to start hustling. Right. And I ended up working like two jobs, two dead-end jobs, just to making money, just trying to figure it out. Yeah. And I ended up hooking up with a guy that ended up selling satellites door to door. And I was like, I already knew I could sell, you know, doing the magazine thing. Yeah, that's a scam. So I started working for direct TV.

And he gave me a job because his brother had been arrested and went to prison and got out and nobody would give him a job. Right. It's the only reason he gave me a job. And like in the first year, I made $150,000. Holy shit. So on direct tests. Direct TV and DISH network door to door. Because you're in Vegas, nobody wants to knock in Vegas.

Right. Because it's 100 degrees. You know, I'm getting three to $500 a deal. you know, on closing deals. I'm just like, just, I turned my addicted personality into something else completely different. And then I just started, man, I'd start hustling. Like, I'd start hustling doing it that way.

And I was like, okay, I don't have to scam. I was like, this is too much money. I can, I can turn around. And I'd always been a fan of, like, I had always, when I was younger, a fan of pro wrestling, right? And so me and my buddy was like, we could start, you know, doing these little wrestling shows and these little fundraisers and stuff. And there's so much money in sponsorships and sales.

I said, we started doing that. And we started killing it. We ran a company for three years and we were making $200,000. I mean, it was great. Right. And it was just, you know, like, man, it was just like, nothing could go wrong. You know what I mean? Like I was like, life was perfect, man.

I had a good little business going. I was going legit. You know, I'd gotten past the three years, the three years of, you know, usually they say within three years we're going to go back to prison. And I ended up meeting an amazing girl. And it wasn't without her. I would be done. Like, I would have went back. I would have slipped back into something.

I know. And, you know, so I'm in Philly. And the crazy thing is, like, I take an Uber, right? And I'm like taking an Uber to go to an event. And the Uber driver cancels. and then she pops up. This girl pops up. She says, I'm Jessica, I'm your Uber driver.

I'm like, okay, great. I'm talking to her. Next time I'm talking, she's driving me out back up to the hotel, and I'm like, well, what are you doing tonight? She's like, what do you mean? I was like, you want to go get a drink? It's like early.

It's like 10 o'clock. She's like, I can't do that. I'm your Uber driver. I was like, who? Is there a code of conduct? Are you violating the rules here? Like, I was like, you don't want to get a one-star review here. Right.

And she's like, fuck you. So we went to start having a couple drinks. And next thing you know, I'm flying back to Philly all the time, seeing her. And we end up getting engaged and got married. Okay. So life was good, man. She was the reason. And then even when things got tough, like, you know, when COVID came and we all lost everything.

Because I was doing live events. So I'm doing multiple live events. I'm done. So, like, what's my mind? thing now. Let's go back to scams. Yeah, yeah. We'll go back to scams.

We'll figure out a scam or something to do. She's like, fuck you are doing that. She's like, you're not doing that. She's like, so you've gone too far. And the crazy thing was is, well, I was in Vegas, one of the jobs I had for like a week or two. I worked for a sports betting company. And they would call and they would sell sports betting advice to different people.

Like that wanted to buy, they would call, people would call in, hey, who should I bet on the New York Knicks or the, Landau Magic tonight. When I think about that, I think about the movie Two for the Money. Yep, yeah, yeah, very much so, yes, sir. Okay. So the, so I was like, man, I was like, I always had fun doing that job. That was a fun job for a couple weeks.

Call around. I called around and finally found this, I found this ad of this guy, and he was like, yeah, you know, a handicapped or blah. And he's like, all right, cool, let me get you in contact with the manager. and he's like, can you work virtually? I'm like, yeah, I'll start to tomorrow. And he was just like, I mean, I knew nothing about sports betting. Right.

Like, you know, besides, you know, when I was in prison, I learned about sports betting, like in prison people, sports bet and for tunas and laundry. The ticket. The ticket, man, you know what I mean? And so the guy was like, I was like, just follow the script. And I followed a script and start working. And next thing I know, I'm working like 18, 19 hours a day. just like,

I'm working all night. Like, because sports gambling, like, we had to cut my phone on because it's dinging, right? Yeah, yeah. And it's like,

because, you know, you got West Coast, you know, and then I'm working for, like, some of the best handicappers in the country. So I got clients calling me

all the time, wanting to buy packages and services and different stuff. And now I've been there four years and now I'm, now I own, run my own thing.

My own thing is an independent contractor now. And it's been a, it's put an amazing run. Through the guy you started with or separately? Basically, I started with him and then kind of branched with my own and did my own thing. And he basically just backed me completely. It was like, yeah, he's like, you've outgrown this being here. Right.

So you run your own thing. And this year, I've made a half a million dollars doing sports betting advice. I mean, it's great, man. I mean, it's, I found a way to turn my addictive personality into something that's legal to make money. and how do you get do the advertising yourself or does he do it? So it's a joint operation. So like one of the services we work for is a multi, they do advertising and then they'll send clients and then they'll get a percentage of it. It's kind of like a franchisee.

Right. And then I can do my own advertising I want, but I have enough clients through their funnel. I don't need to. All right. So yeah, it works good. all right I've got a few questions that you probably have some stories about

sure and this is just for me rolling going through some of your videos yeah so do you want to talk about the target stealing scam or there's something

in the story behind that yeah yeah yeah yeah what about the yeah I was going to say we need the death certificate yeah I have that death certificate yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so if you want to start with target

yeah yeah yeah so So I was like 19 years old. And I went and got a job at Target. And it was supposed to be just as a simple, a little job just to make some money. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it was more just honestly to get my mom off my ass

because I was doing checks and I was doing shit. And we was doing the warranty stuff. And I just needed a job. So the guy walks in, the guy's like, hey, you're a pretty big-sized guy. You want to work in Los Revention. I'm like, sure, what do I got to do? He's like, oh, you just walk around, act like you're shopping, you know what I mean?

And everything. And then you just basically catch people shoplifting. Like, okay. All right. It's easy. Like, so within like a couple of weeks, they are having me close the store at night time. Boy. That was a mistake.

Yeah. So we used to care. We used to shop. We'd always bring our merchandise back to our office back, right? And we'd dump it in our office. And then they just put it back out again. They put it back out again. And I was like, wait.

It's like, huh, no one's really going to see. I'm in the one room in here that doesn't have a camera. If I just take this merchandise and put it in my bag. Right. No one's going to notice that. So I would literally just take the merchandise and I would, I'd open these CDs and DVDs and it's just, you know, stack, and they have stacks of book bag, you know, book bag of stuff.

You know, PlayStation's and whatever. And just walk right out the door, rock out of the front door. I would always take out the little tag so it wouldn't beep. Right. And then, like, I remember, like, I took the, there was, like, a little ceiling tile. Right. And I took the ceiling tiles, and I would show up the stuff up in the ceiling tiles. And I would just leave it up there.

And eventually, when they said when they eventually, eventually what happened was they actually put in a little, I guess I had missed one of the magnets and I went out of the doors and my bag beeped and I just kept walking and the manager seen it was like that's weird I was like I don't know maybe maybe something I bought a drinker

or something earlier I don't know but it just made him think it's like why did it beep right it was just that one moment you know I mean so they ended up putting in a camera inside the loss prevention offering just they don't trust you at all No.

That's so... Why would you? Why would you give me any keys in the city? Like, why? I was like, you're so in stupidity. So, so that Friday night, I'd do my normal deal. Walk out the door. Saturday morning, I walk in and come to work.

I walk right in. There's two cops. And there, and regular, and then my boss and then his boss. And all the little plastics from up and the ceilings laying on the table. And they're like, so what do you want to talk about? I was, I don't know. So they're like, look, look, we're not going to press charges,

just sign this saying that you stole this stuff so we can turn this into the insurance company so we can get reimbursed. Right. That's all they care about. Yeah. They don't care about the prosecution. The prosecution. They just want to be able to turn it in because I had stolen so much of the thing.

It was affecting their court. sales. Right. They're like, they're like, we got to do. We have to account for this. You know what I mean?

So, yeah. So that would basically, yeah. And that was, uh, that was it, man.

I probably, I probably got away with thousands every week from Target for months and just, just kept on banking money up. What was the, do you go another one? The bank, yeah.

I was going to say, what about the, the birth certificate. I'm sorry, the death certificate thing. All right. So, stealing dead people's information.

Yeah. So, So my buddy worked at Oki's funeral home, and people, he would come in and... People are dying to get in there. Yeah. It's a business that never quits, right? So they literally, he would always have these people come in. And when he turns into death certificates and everything, right?

And then they get sent off. You usually have a two to three week period, right? Of time or until they actually file it with the state. well when he would he would provide me all their information because he's got all their information he's got their wallets there their IDs so he's just giving me their information and we're just like running up credit cards and and things because it's taking remember this isn't modern technology today where somebody dies and they could put the sit in the system and it's over right i mean now back in the day it takes days and weeks to get everything sent right well um it's funny this is

this is funny. So you know when you when you die right um the there's there's actually a death benefit that pays to bury you it's like 350 450. 450 so what one of the things though have you ever if you pull somebody's credit that's died this is a problem when people try and make a fake ID using a death certificate right if you pull it let's say two years later you get somebody's social security number that died and you go and you pull their credit it'll say deceased right and you're like you're like, well, how do they know that? The way they know that is when they go to the funeral home. Right.

And they get their death certificate. The funeral home sends it to the Social Security Administration to get the $450 toward the burial. And now they are notified that this person is deceased. Right. And so now when they check with Social Security, it says this is a deceased person. But that takes time.

Yes. You know what I'm saying? Even if you, when they get it, they may not release that. You know, they have to cut a check that takes 30 days, 60-day, however long until they get it. Usually we had about a 90-day window. Right. But you're talking about just taking their stuff and they, you've got probably, yeah, like you said, months.

You've got months to use those credit cards. So it's a credit card company doesn't know and won't know for months, if at all. If at all. And all it's going to happen is the credit cards are going to go to the bills are going to go to them. But it would be even better is if you could pay the minimum payments for a couple of months to keep them open. Keep them open. I never thought it that way, but that's really, this should know you years early.

Yeah. But, no, and then that's what, that's what we would do. We would do that, and then we would take it, and we would just run these cards up and charges up. And then by the time it was all said and done, I mean, now all these bills are stacked up, but what are they going to do? They're going to send them to help these,

this person's dead. So the credit card company is just going to write it off. Yeah. Well, you know what, it's funny. I had, I actually had a, when I first started, it'd probably been doing it in a couple years when I was a mortgage broker.

We had a guy that we lent him. I don't know. It was nothing to. It was 50 or 75,000 for some little shit hole house, right? He was an old guy. And sure enough, four months later, and he had perfect credit. He was insane, but he had perfect credit. I remember

he died and we found out like, whatever, a month or two later or something, he had died and I thought, that's funny because I thought that's funny. He died.

I wonder if you could do something with his credit, right? Right. And I thought, let's pull his credit because we had pulled it, you know, three or four months earlier. And he had a bunch of credit cards, but he had owed no money on them. Like $100, $100, $200, $2.00. And he had credit cards with like $20,000 limits, $30,000 limits, like huge limits. And so when we pulled his credit, we found out his kids. ran up every one of his credit cards.

Of course. He has a $20,000 limit. He owes like $22,000. $30,000 on a limit. It was like $31,000. So we realized, too, that obviously what happened was his kids realized what happened. They ran up the credit cards.

Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, and that's what we would do. I mean, with him working at Oakees, I mean, we're getting literally the day they're dying, he's giving me their information. Yeah, they got plenty of time. Yeah, plenty of time. So you're just, you're getting new credit cards in their name.

We were getting credit cards. We had a friend that worked in a loan office. Oh, okay. So we're going to be getting loans. I mean, and then, you know, and then we're just, we're just racking up the bills. Right. And then, you know, and then we're sitting there like, oh, give me us, you know, get their information and just keep racking it up and open up a checking account. I don't know why this excites me.

Just talking about it gets me. I'm all excited. Yeah. Okay. So. So what about a rental car scam? So rental car scams, very similar,

what you're talking about, your buddy did. Yeah. Yeah. We would get rental car scams, and what we would do is we would go to the, we would, we wouldn't have this technology like he did.

We would just roll up an hour, and we would find the paperwork inside. And sometimes, you know, like a lot of times, they would drop the cars off, right? Right. And, you know,

the paperwork being inside the cars. So we would grab, grab the rental cars. We'd also go into the, going to the airport inside the actual, and to the, where the luggage is. And we grabbed the luggage too at the same time. Just like, and just walk right out and just act like, you know what?

And just go up to the lot because back then people would just drop their key. And they would have their keys inside the car. We would just grab the keys and we'd have the paper. Now you get the paperwork of, you know, all the information. Are the doors unlocked? Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah. A lot of times people just leave the doors unlocked and you're,

and there's all the information on how to, you know, this car is running under this. this cars went into that, that, and we would grab it and use that to get, grab that information. I always wonder when the, like, you know, Jess and I have rented cars recently, and then they're like, oh, if you come after hours, just drop it in the slot, and they'll have like some little, it's almost, it's like a box. I mean, I always wondered like, why didn't somebody just walk up with a crowbar yank that box off? They probably have. I mean.

Or does it, or I thought, you know, or I think, well, maybe it slides down and actually goes inside or something, but. I mean, but worst comes worse of it. I mean, most of the places have got keys, right? all you're going to do with them keys is if we need you get them keys and then you get the car, what are you going to do? You're still driving around a stolen car. You're still running a store car.

You take it to chop shop and get a couple grand quickly, very quickly for a car. Yeah. I writ down. It's a long day. Porky pig did. Luckily, I can edit that. But you know, I'll leave it in.

I wrote down Wells Fargo scam. Is that related to the checks? Yeah, it's followed checks. Okay. You were locked up with a CEO, with your CEO? Yes, yes. So, yeah, so remember earlier when I was telling you about the officers, when I'm the first time I went to Lake County, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Officer Brown and Pollock. Well, I'm sitting there, and this is the craziest thing. I'm sitting there in Lake Butler, just the second time in. I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden I look up and I see Pollock walking in. But he's not walking in in Brown. he's walking in in blue. Right.

And his face is just, it's like, why are you here? You know, because I should have went through Orlando, but I went through there. Well, he got, he ended up getting arrested after I went to prison for snuggling in contraband. Right. And he was actually in a process of going to prison. And he's like, hey, man, you got to just keep, keep. Don't take, they'll tell them. He's like, they don't know that I'm a CEO.

You know what I mean? I'm like, well, man. I'm going to give you a list. No, I'm like, man, I'm going to go tell the dude run the pod because I'm like, because I can't, it comes out, you know what I mean? I know this dude. Right. I don't, I don't say nothing.

I'm just as guilty, you know what I mean? So very, very quickly, he actually got, was being given the list out very quickly to people. And he said, I just want to do my time. I don't want to go to people. Of course, of course. Yeah, yeah. I'm one of you guys. I was bringing in.

and stuff. And they're like, nah, not, man. That's not how it works. No, brother. You're going to that store first thing tomorrow morning.

You would take advantage of us. But the funny thing is, is when I started doing my YouTube shorts, right, like six months ago, right? Six months ago. All of a sudden, I mean,

I can share it to you guys, I'll send it to you guys and you guys can put it on the real or whatever. But like, he actually messaged me. He's out. He's like, he's like, I see you talk about me on your thing.

He's like, oh, man. I was like, oh, man, you want to ask him if you want to come on the show? Yeah, you should come on the show. Yeah, for sure. I definitely will. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say, you know, it's funny, too, because every once in want somebody from Coleman that was locked up will reach out to me and be like, you know, hey, man, I was locked up.

I was in C4. Remember we used to hang out here? And it's like, and you don't. Yeah, I don't remember a lot of people. I don't remember names because everybody uses them fake name. Right. And so, like, I don't remember T-Dog because I've met 50 T-Dogs or, or, or, or, you know, or, I don't remember. Or what are they, or, oh, God, what's the, the big one that they, uh.

Yeah, of course, you have short dogs, you have tea dogs. You have, uh, big guy. I was going to say, what's... Yeah. Oh, yeah, they've got so many names that they just reuse over and over again. It's funny, uh, Boziac mentioned the other day of some guy. They used to call, can't, um, can't get right. Yeah.

Can't get right. What's going on? Like, because he just, no matter what he did, he just couldn't do anything right. Chainsaw. Yeah. I tried to push chainsaw. I tried to, they're like, well, what do they call you?

They call me chainsaw, and they'd be like, nah, bro. They don't call you, yeah. I never got to call anything but, but Cox. I tried to push,

I tried to push chainsaw, but no, just Cox. Probably the worst I think I ever felt was the first time I went to prison. Because you know, when you get there, you know, when you go to Orlando,

you get your first roommate, right? Right. Silly. You're silly, right? And everybody's on, transit. Like you don't know when you're leaving. You don't know where you're on your camp and everything. And everyone's, everybody's in the same boat where I trade, you're coming from the county. You're trading stamps for stuff, coffee and everything. And I walk in and a cell, he's like,

he's like, oh, my name's Tebow. And I'm like, and you're locked in a cell with this guy for 12, 13 hours a day. So, so I have to like, you know, you have to be cordial and you have to listen to them, right? You know, even though you know they're like, well, he's telling you is bullshit. shit. You know what I mean? It doesn't make sense. You know what I mean? Whatever. And so he's like telling me how he's like the king of Miami. He's the drug lord of Miami. He's got millions of dollars. They caught me with 30 bricks of heroin. But I got a good lawyer so only got two years. Yeah. Yeah. So, so he's telling me about, hey, he's the, he's the king pin of Miami. He's got a helicopter. And he flies privately to the Lakers games. He knows

he's missing four teeth. Yes. And the fact that he's got no, like no commissary money. He's waiting for his money to come on. And I'm just sitting there like, but his stories are so entertaining. I'm like, okay, man, I've got free TV in here. So go ahead, kill me with the thing. And I'm sitting there letting him tell his stories.

Well, my money hits. Well, you know, because, you know, I brought money from the county, so my money comes on. So I go get coffee and I'm going to get, you know, slides and everything. I'm like, man, this dude ain't got no slides. He ain't got no, you know, no, no, no, here, man, here's the yoder, here's the yoder, here's some slides, here's a shampoo, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Don't use that state bar soap they gave.

You use this to go, I got to be trapped in there with you. At least be clean and you're good. And he's, hey, man, can I get some coffee, you know? So yeah, my money's on the way soon. I'm like, that's okay, that's okay. Just keep telling me them stories and keep my time rolling here so I can, I'm good. and we're in there and he's telling me about he had he was driving down the road with his brother and he was losing street credit with his with his crew so he he he him his brother pulled up on a car

car carriers have like these expensive cars and he like jumped from the truck onto the onto the on to the thing and like laid the thing out and like all right on Miami right on the highway And I'm just like, this is insane. This isn't, this isn't, what is the Fast and the Fearious? Right? Well, no, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's some, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, written by black authors that are urban novels. Urban novels, yes, um, called a cartel. Hood books.

Yes. And this guy, this guy was like, basically reading from one of those is, he's telling me the story. So I'm just like, so like, like, there to go. by and I'm like I'm hanging out with the white dudes on stairs they're just like yeah what's up with your room and I'm just he's just he's a bug man don't worry about him you know I'm just I'm stuck with him you know what I mean I haven't heard that time a while he up like they call like guys that are nuts yeah yeah and and all of a sudden here comes the next group of people in and I guess a couple dudes from his county jail recognizes him and he basically said and they're like

oh what's up man da da da da da he's oh what's up man da da da da and then and and then And I find out he's basically, it's been snitching for the past two months. Right. And now they all know he's a snitch from the county. And they're like, so they come to my table where I'm at, I'm playing cards. And they're like, yo, man, we're fitting him up there and tighten him up, man. You know, he told him a bunch of people from at home. I'm like, what?

I was like, oh, I thought he was a big drug deal or I'm like playing along. I thought he was like, he was the man. No, man. I was like, I was like, he's like, we're going to take anything that's in that room. I'm like, well, the shit in the bottom, bottom bunk would do that. But that's my shit. I'm going to go lock that right now. Anything else you want to go in, y'all hand y'all's business.

So I go on her and I'm like, I lock my lock. I said, hey, man, if I was you, I would get on your feet, man. You got, you got some visitors coming. Yeah. And I walked back downstairs and all you heard her. The sneakers, the squeaking on the concrete. Yeah. A remix album, you know, 2.0.

it's like, oh my God, I come back upstairs and he swore up and all. And they took his, they took his little stuff that I gave him. And they took his, they even took his own estate shoes and everything. He's just laying there. I was like, now what happened? He's like, man, I got to tear true, man. I was kind of making a clue of them stories, man. Yeah.

Oh, man, for real? So yeah, man, I, man, I done a lot of bad things, man. I was like, oh, my God. Like, I say, welcome to prison. It's like the Army, be whatever you want to be. Yeah. And that's, that was just like, I just, some of the characters you meet in prison are just amazing.

Yeah, they're, they're great. It's, um, the commissary thing, it's funny. I, I had a guy, we had a guy that he kept, you know, you know, you felt your commissary list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he would say, yo, bro, can you get me some such and such, my money's going to hit. It's not going to hit till tomorrow, so I'm going to miss comedy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So guys would mark. stuff down for him. Right. And then the commissary would come and he'd get it. And then he would say, hey, I got you. I got you on, on this commissary. What do I need? You got me, you got me this. I owe you a coffee and a creamer. And I also owe you this. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to get you some some M&Ms too. I'm going to get you some. And he adds some extra of you. Oh, no, you have to do that. No, it's cool. It's cool. And then he, of course he's going to be generous because he knows he puts into the commissary with everybody else. The bags show up. Right. Because this is in the county.

Right. Right. So they wheel in all the bags. They call out your name. Right. Get your bag. And he would stay on there the whole time like this. And then they'd be like, he'd go up and say what his name is. And they'd be like, yeah, we got nothing for you.

You'd go. And then he'd go straight to the phone, pick up the phone. Right, right, right, right. And then he'd come and be like, man, you guys, I'm so sorry, bro. I, I, you know, they didn't send the money. The guy said he didn't send it yet. He's going to send it today. Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

No problem. And then the next week would come by. Right. And he would come out, hey man, I got you this time. I'm going to get you this. So this happened like literally happened like. Actually, I think somebody did send him money one time. So he got like weeks and weeks because he did it again.

Right. And I remember he said towards the end, he's like, yo, yo, Cox, what do I owe you? I'm going to get you that bag of coffee and this. I'm like, right, right. I said, hey, and he goes, can I get you? What else can I get you? I go, get me four peanut M&Ms. Okay.

And he goes, I said, you know what? I say, go ahead and get me, you know, get me some uh an extra bag of coffee oh okay can you get me uh he's like man that's a lot i said what does it matter bro i said you know you're not getting any commissary and everybody just blurss out laughing right right oh man fuck you bro but sure enough two hours later he was who where where's my stuff yeah yeah what happened yeah which is fine you don't have any money you're barely getting any money in it's fine like that that's the thing about in prison like i had a lot of friends man I was smart. I had money on the streets.

Right. So I always knew, surround myself with people, you know what I mean? And, but them kind of people are good to have because you need stuff done in prison. Yeah. Yeah. That guy, he'll, he'll probably, you know, these guys clean clothes. They do shoes, you know, they'll clean your shoes. They'll do, they'll hold your cell phone for you. Yeah, make your bunk bed. Well, we didn't have, I mean, we didn't have many cell phones at that time. The federal prisons are full of cell phones now. Right, right, right. But back then, I was there before COVID.

Gotcha. Like after COVID, everybody I talked to, like, since we've been calling and you heard the ringing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's somebody from federal prison called twice. Nice, nice. It says federal prison on it. Nice. But, you know, like I would, before COVID, well, after COVID, so many officers retired.

Yeah. And they brought new officers in that don't really know anything. And so the prisoners... They get groomed and... Yeah, and the prisoners... So the prisoners are going nuts. They can get away with anything. Why?

Because there's no officers that really know how the system works or knows our little scam. So the prison I was in that had... I'll bet you had four cell phones out of 2,000 guys. Yeah, yeah. And they were coveted. Now, every time they do a sweep, they'll find 250 cell phones for a couple thousand. like, or 300 cell phone. Every, every month or so, they're finding these guys making alcohol that, you know,

hooch. They'll, like, none of that ever was happening when I was there. But, you know, they got a new staff. And the staff's bringing in, bringing in stuff. Yeah. They're bringing in drugs. They're bringing in cell phones. They're bringing in all kinds of stuff that they're not supposed.

See, I guess it was different because, like, you know, for state because, like, you know, my two big sense was, you know, 05 to 08 and then, you know, from 2010 to 2014, right? And I mean, we were just, I mean, we were allowed with cell phones. Yeah, but the state they don't get paid enough. So the officers are supplementing what they're supplementing their income by bringing in a cell phone for a thousand dollars. It's an $80 cell phone. They're getting $1,000 for it. Right.

So, but in the federal system, these guys were being paid so well. And they, because you have to think once they've been there 10, 10, 15 years, these guys are making $80, $100,000 a year as an officer. It's not worth bringing in a couple cell phones. No. But when they get hired, they're being hired at like $35,000. And so they're supplementing that $35,000 by, look, if once a month I bring in two cell phones, that's an extra $24,000 a year. Yeah. So then that's worth it.

It's worth the time, you know? I mean, because, I mean, the guy, I mean, especially in the state, I mean, you can groom officers so easily. Yeah. I mean, you're just hanging out with them, buying them sodas. And it always struck me weird. Like, like, you could, you would be able to groom them, like, the easiest way, but, like, like, oh, go get me a honey bun and a soda. Like, you want the, you want a shitty honey bun and a soda? Like, I had a, my, my, my cousin was in, was locked up with me.

And one of the guards would constantly come to him and say, and be like, yo, you got, you got any fucking, you had any snickers? He'd go, yeah, give me a snickers. You go, all right, you'd go get them a snickers. But this was also, like, his, his room would get raided and they'd take all of his stuff, and they'd stick it in in the um the mop room which is locked right and the next guard that came on he would go hey man let me um my place got hit he'd go can i get the key to the to the mop room so i can get a mop and he goes all right here go get it go get it you know he'd go and he come we're walking out that thing with all this stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah he gets it another guy gives it back because he's

making friends with them you know i was never like that with the the guards but you know i never really had any, any real money and all the money, I, I didn't buy a lot of stuff. Like, I wasn't trying to make myself comfortable. I was, I was writing stories and I had a different level of comfort where most guys were like, just trying to keep themselves entertained and be relaxed. Yeah, I mean, until they get out. I mean, and you're using dark psychology on these guys, you know, you're gaslighting these guys up and, you know, and it's, it's such a mind manipulation when you're with these, with the guards. Everything is in prison. Yeah. I mean, the reason I think prison is the greatest.

education you could give a person in sales and marketing because you drop somebody in prison and you're like live with this person different race different background different everything and survive yeah well you know the other thing is prison is the only only time most of these guys like the white collar guys and then you've got the guy the street guys that they're ever going to mix together you got to guys that are multi-millionaires that are rooming with a guy that's a crackhead that's never left the state or really even his area

and these guys are now spending hours a day talking like that crackhead's never going to have the opportunity to talk to this guy and this guy's here and talking to this crackhead who's sitting there and he's like my god your mother was what? Your father did look oh my God like

what do you mean your cousin did this how did you know like he's never met this guy before and now he's trapped in a room you have that used to say it was the great equal It didn't matter how much money you had, you could still end up in a room for two years with a guy that doesn't have an education and has been a drug addict his entire life. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing where, I mean, I don't know about the federal level, but the state level is it is very much us versus them.

It's the, it's the blue versus brown. It's, you know, you band together, you know what I mean? I don't feel like it's that much like that. So here's the difference between the state system, too, is it, the state system, it's my understanding is there's a lot of interaction with cops. Sorry, with the, with the guards or prison guards. There's lots of guards. They're all over the place.

You're constantly having to interact with them. In the federal system, I could go a year and never talk to a guard. Like I never, like you literally, you're being counted. They don't talk to you when you're counted. They don't, there's no real interaction. Maybe they might call mail call. but I could literally go six months to a year before I ever had to go and ask them for anything or say anything to. And when I say a year, it's only because every once a year you had to meet with your counselor and your unit manager.

And most of the time you walked in and they'd say, oh, you got 20-something years to go and you probably should be programming, but you don't have to worry about it right now. You got 20 years. So here, just sign off here and you go, all right. And you'd sign and you'd walk out. Yeah. But in the state system, there's all kinds of interaction. Oh, yeah. I mean, and I mean, I don't know this with the racist, but like in Florida, like, it's, it's like, you know, black and white get work or right along with each other.

You know what I mean? Like in other states and like federal, I've heard it's like very, you know, segregated, you know what I mean? For a certain point. See, I think it obviously goes by the different prisons, obviously, because, you know, it was semi like that in the, um, uh, it was semi like that in the, um, uh, at the medium, but at the low, it definitely was not like that. It was definitely like weird, you know, like probably one of the guys that I'd say,

like if a grown man can have a best friend, one of my best friends, I would say, see? Does that, that's still got to bother you. It would bother me to this day if I looked down on my phone and was like federal prison. I'm like, fuck. This guy keeps calling. I mean, I know who it is.

Well, it's one of two or three guys. I would say that, that, you know, a lot, like, for instance, one of the guys that I met that I talked to to to say that actually we were interviewed today, he was one of those three guys that we were all here together. Yeah, yeah. Is a guy named Zach that I met in the medium in federal prison, black guy. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

We hang out. We text all the time. So, you know, there's not that divide. And especially when you go down to the low, and I'm sure there's even less when you get to the camp. And a lot of people are just pretending. Yeah. You know, it's almost like they're pretending that they're in a game.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing like in the state level. you got the, you know, the white gangs. And then they're like, oh, but then most of the gang bangers are, those are the same guys that have, you know, that have punk girlfriends. Yeah. And then, you know, that are just like hanging out with each other, you know,

and they're like, oh, yeah, can't be around them guys. And so there's a cell shuts, it's like, oh. You know what's so funny about that is that this is the South. There's very little racial tension in the South prison systems. But if you go to California. Oh, yeah, no, it's a whole lot of. of the world. Oh my God. Or you go to New York? Yeah. Or it's like, okay,

well, they're supposed to be, you know, kind of racial harmony in these states, and these guys are like, you can't take a pencil from a black guy. You're not supposed to be talking to them. You can't deal with them. You can't play cards with them. Or your own guys will beat the

crap out of you. Like, it's not like that down here that I know of. Maybe in the pins. No, it's not, not in that way. It's, you know, no. You got the course, you got the ones who says they're you know, white power and them guys. But then it's like, you know, it's like, oh, then you see them secretly making deals with, you know, people.

And it's like, it's like, it's not that way. Mostly, I feel like it's a front. And it's really more for protection. Like you feel more protected. Well, yeah, because it's a numbers thing. You feel like you're protected because you have all these people here. And that, I mean, I remember the, like, the worst thing I think ever happened to me where I realized, like, I was, I think, it was, toward my second stint.

and I was in there and my, I had got a razor blade, and I was using it to chop up food, like, you know, sausages to make goulages. I got it in my locker, right? Well, this guy comes to me, he's like, hey, man, can I borrow a tuna? I'm like, yeah, the same thing you're talking about, you know, hey, I'll get you tomorrow, get you tomorrow, yeah, no problem, man. Hey, can I borrow, where I borrow cheese?

No, my money's coming, blah, blah, because it's not like in Florida State, like your money can come on any day. It's not like a certain day. just refreshes. It's $75 hours every Monday. It refreshes. Right. You know, but on Saturday, your money can come on.

You can have 75 hours. So he's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, I was like, finally, after about the third time, I was like, oh, man. Look, man, I can't keep letting you borrow stuff, man. He's like, oh, man, I got you for real. I got you for real. I was like, all right, man. And my buddy was like, my buddy Callie boy was like, look, man, you better have his,

you better have his shit tomorrow. For real. I was like, yeah, I got it more. I just talked to my mom, the money will be there. So he goes and bars and stuff out of my locker, right? And I was sitting there at the table playing cards. And next thing I know, you know, it's locked down. We're sitting there and I'm laying in bed.

I'm sitting there relaxing. Next thing is here comes cops in my bunk. Get up, get up, get up, get up, get up. He didn't want to drop the kite that I was going to escape. And I had a knife. So he doesn't have to go away. So he had to pay you. He had to pay the debt.

And so he's like, they're like digging through my locker. And this female is like digging through my locker and she pokes herself with the razor. Oh, no. So, and her fingers are like just bleeding down. I'm like, oh, fuck. This ain't good. And they grabbed me up and they're taking me and they got me handcuffed and I'm walking. And medical was straight ahead because whenever you go to confinement in Florida,

you automatically go to a medical just to make sure you're going to be okay in confinement. Like you have any medical issues, you need a bull or bunk, whatever. Well, they take me the opposite path and I'm going around the building. It's a blind spot where there's no cameras. Not good at all. Next thing I know, feet get kicked out underneath me. I go straight to the ground. They're dropping it.

I mean, luckily enough, I was cuff. They probably would have done more damage if I hadn't been cuffed. Right. But I was cuffed. I was so tight, and I dropped down, and they're, like, just dropping elbows on me, and they're, like, taking their mace and, like, trying to show it in my mouth and, like, shoot, me, man.

And I'm just getting, I got mace, and I'm just getting elbowed, and I'm, like, and I'm not screaming, because I'm not going to sell for it. Like, the one thing is I knew, if I don't sell for it, the more I react, the more they're going to react. So I just get mace and get the shit kicked out of me. And they take me to the cell, to the shower cell, and they had me uncuff and shower me,

I'm getting showered down and everything, and I'm not saying anything. Right. I'm saying anything, and I'm like just, and then I'm, like, bleeding from the side of my face and everything. And it's like, they take me into a cell, and they put me in a one-man cell. I mean, well, it's a two-bunk cell, but I'm empty.

Yeah. I'm like, and next thing I know, I'm just sitting there, and like, 10 minutes later, the sergeant comes up to the door. I'm like, the trick they would do is they would get you back there. Now they got you back there, you're kicking the door, or you're doing something.

and now they're going to spray you again, or they're going to, or they'll starve you to death. What they'll do is they'll say, oh, refusing to eat. Like, no, I'm not. Yeah, because they walk by the cell and they've got a hand to feed you your train. Oh, refusal to eat. Like, you know, and they would open their flap and they shut your flap. Right.

And they would take two, three days, and they wouldn't even feed you. And then eventually they would, you know, the nurse come, oh, you want to eat. When you're going to say, all the officers not feeding me? Right. That's going to go over well. So, you know, so the sergeant comes to me and he knows me. He's like, he's like, what's up, man? I was like, look, look, I had the thing.

What was it? I said, dude. And he's like, yeah, he's like, he's like, it's the same. He said, this don't feel it. I said, sergeant was like, look, man, just feed me, man. Don't gas me. I ain't saying a word. He said, all right.

You know, two, three hours later, I get a roommate. They move somebody into my thing. So that way, I now know since they put some in there, they're not going to gas me every day. Right. So now I'm in there with them, and like I end up getting like, you know, 60 days for a weapon charge or whatever. And the whole time I'm on the compound, I'm like, you know, my buddy sends me a note back there. He's like, the guy checked into, he's downstairs. He's in fear of his life now.

So, but the problem now is I have a weapon charge and he put the fear of life. He checked in under me. So they can't put us both back on. the compound. Right. So they transfer me and I end up getting transferred, I ended up getting transferred to Taylor CI. Oh, he could have just checked in. Yeah. He didn't have to drop the note. He could have just checked in. Yeah, but he thought the first time when he dropped the note, I would just go away and. And nobody would say anything. No, I'd say anything. No, I'd say anything. Yeah. And then, yeah, that's just, that's how it is, man. People in prison will literally sell their soul for a noodle.

Yeah. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen. what about catfish in prison oh yeah so catfishing in prison so my buddy nick right good old nick man he he he had the cat fishing game down right so like like when you would sit there and you would do this you would do these crazy women will write dudes that are locked up they're they're they're in love with it it's such a control thing right it goes back to dark psychology where you're like You're controlling them, but they think they're controlling you. Right. And he's like writing these guys.

He's even writing dudes. Right. And I remember one time, like, he's writing the dude wanted to come visit him. And he's like, Nick's like, no, bro, you can't come visit me. Because, like, I'll get in trouble here. You know, they'll, you know, they'll beat me up here. You know, they find out that we're, we're an item, we're in love. And he's just like getting them to send money to him.

Yeah. And, I mean, he would just, and he literally capfish this one girl. girl, I mean, she was literally working at Walmart. I said, you know, you just not making a ton of money, right? So she's like sitting in his whole paycheck every week. And it's like, and it's like amazing. It's like, it was just like you would sit there and watch these guys. Like, I mean, a girl's name in prison, like a pen pal is worth gold.

Right. And now, I mean, now they have like websites. You can get put on and all kinds of stuff. But it's like, I remember there was like, there was these, like, they would pass these girls around like pen pals like like like they would be like oh you know so i mean the thing is is like that's the reason you always would in state i don't know how it's unfair but you always tear your corner of your envelope off and you throw it away like the return address oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because you don't want someone writing your your people and stuff right well i even i even had a

friend who was uh basically he was uh playing both sides of defense in prison he was uh he had a girlfriend in prison and he had a wife on the outside and he he was like even you know he was like telling the punk oh we're going to get married and when i got out we'll leave my wife so the phone goes and grabs the wife's address and writes a letter to her and tells him everything i'm i'm i'm here with your husband every night he talks about me i knew your kids names and it's like this poor guy goes to visitation thinking his wife like starts snapping visitation like to jump over the table and was like choking him. Like, you know, like, you know, it's like, like, what do you do?

Like, why would you even put yourself in that position? I know. I was going to say, so the pen pal thing, so I was on a couple TV shows like American Greed and Dateline and stuff. Yeah, yeah. So I would get these letters from, from women would write me. Like, I had a woman that had just gotten out of federal or got out of like state prison. Right.

She's writing me like, I want to hook up with you. I want to learn from you. Your game was so tight. You know, and I'm just like, like, I can't write this person back. Like, this person's insane. And sending, like, photographs of herself. It's like, stop. I'm not interested.

Yeah. But I had this, I had a guy that wrote me and said he loved my artwork, blah, blah, blah. But I knew he was gay because in the, in the letter, he mentioned going to following Madonna. He mentioned Madonna that he had gone to this Madonna concert. And I take care of my grandmother full time. And I dressed up as Madonna for. you know, whatever. And then another time he's like,

the next week I'm going to a Madonna. And I remember everybody, I let it read the letter. They were like, this guy's mentioned Madonna three separate times in a two-page letter. Yeah. And so they were like, you know, what are you going to do? I said, oh, and his whole thing was, I want to buy a painting from you. So I wrote back and I said, listen, bro, I get it. But I don't have access to paint paintings in here.

Like there's paintings, but I said, you know, to paint oil paintings you would need, it's four or five hundred dollars just for the basic paint set plus you have to buy the canvases and i can only build you can only the largest size you can get is whatever because you're like i want a five foot by 10 foot painting he's like you can't do any of that in here yeah yeah so i explain that i sent it back then he writes back later he's like look what can you do and i was like i mean for probably a hundred bucks i can get like a a watercolor pencil set yeah you know and i can write on and get water paper and draw something for you like like, and he said, look, I'm going to send you, you know, a hundred bucks to get the set.

Well, the set was like $50. Like the whole, I spent maybe $50. Right. So I have 50 left over. So I actually draw something up. I actually drew something. And I sent it to the guy like, here, here you go, because he gave me an extra, because it was an extra 50 bucks, whatever. And then he sends me another thing and says, look, you know, I love, you know, I'm so, I'm so excited that you written me.

So he's wanting to get something else from like, hey, kid, is there any way you could this? and so my buddy, I'm like, I'm not going to write this guy. And this is weird. And I remember my buddy, what do you want to do? You know, draw at your penis or something? It was just he wanted, he wanted me to keep sitting himself. Anyway, my buddy Harold, which is my celly. Yeah, yeah.

We're sitting there and he goes, you know, this is, this is like, what if this guy keep, you going to keep this going? I said, no, I don't think so. I said, I might try and get another hundred bucks or something, but I can't imagine. I don't know. I said, I don't think so. I said, it's feeling real, real creepy. Right.

And I said, he keeps mentioned Madonna. This guy's clearly gay. He takes care of his grandmother. He's like a registered nerd. Like, something's not right about this guy. Right, right, right. And he goes, well, if you keep it going, he goes, like, what if he wants to talk to you on the phone? And I went, I don't care if he pays for it.

I'll talk to him on the phone. And he goes, well, what if he wants to come see you? And I went, I mean, if he'll buy me some food out of the locker or out of the vending machines, I said, I'll go to visit. Yeah, no right. And he goes, what if he, I go, I mean, fuck, I go, bro, I got a lot of time. And he goes, I said, I mean, if he's going to buy me some food, I said, I'll go. And he goes, what if he gets here and he wants a hug? And I go, I mean, I'll give the guy a hug.

I got a lot of time, Harold. And then he goes, he said, what if he, like, wants a peck on the face, on the kid, wants a quick kiss? I go, it's just a kiss. I've got a lot of time. What do you want me to say? Harold, Harold, for a cheeseburger, what about? Whoa.

What are the other year? Carol, we're in different spots. You're leaving in two years. Listen, we were laughing so fucking hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I would get these letters. I could never, I could never do it. I just could, I'd write one letters as like, I can't do it.

Yeah, yeah, it was just, I was like, I mean, he would, he had like a lap going. It was just like, he was writing four, five of them at one time. Oh, listen, there are a guy. I knew a guy. His name is Ellis. His name is Ellis Cook. And I remember he started writing this chick. And she came to see, she's, she's sitting in money.

everything money for the phone money for for for for um for for for a minute so you can use the the email system yeah yeah she's sitting in a money to put on his books so he can buy commissary and she comes to see him one time and we were like and we we were like what what she looked like what's going on what's going on he goes um he came back and he goes she's a bigan she's a big and i went what do you mean big and he goes i mean she's a big girl and i go well what do you mean big he was i mean when she came in, I saw her, and I was like, holy shit. And he said, and I gave her a hug, and he goes, and I couldn't get my arms.

He said, yeah, I, he said, but she did say she's going to drop some money in the commissary for me. Hey, man, it's, it's, I'm telling you, man, people will, people in prison will, well, they'll, I'm never seeing people who are willing to sell their sold for a honey bun and a noodle as much as they will. I mean, they will. I mean, it's like they'll make the craziest lies up or they'll do whatever. Oh, they'll promise all kinds of stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. My, my, my, my, my, my, my dead grandmother is going to come back from the grave and mail you $100, Matt, for this honey bun this week. I'm, I'm going to leave my wife and kids and come live with you. Like, you don't know this person. You've written 20 letters. What are you doing?

Yeah, like, it's crazy, man. And the thing is, like, the, I think the worst, though, is the, the relationships people get in prison. When you start getting into the marriages inside prison, like some of these guys, they, I mean, like you said, some of them have a lot of time, right? So they look at like, this is really my husband or this is my, my, my, my, as many of them over. I remember I was across city CI, and like, I'm sitting there on, like,

the pedal bike, and I'm, like, just hanging out with a couple buddies. And I watch one of these, you know, you know, they call she male guys come up and, and see, punk. They call pumps in prison. Yeah, I didn't know what she wanted to say for the, the video. But, yeah, but so the, so, like, people don't realize the punks run the prison. I've said that.

Like, the punk, like, like, like, they ain't the gang bangers. They should get an enhancement. They have a good time in prison. Like, like, like, they, they run the show. Yeah, people don't realize. Yeah, they're like, oh, and, because they got the, they got the inmates wrapped around their finger, and they got the guards wrapped around their finger. And they're like, so I remember this one monk was sitting there, like, hanging out.

And his, and his brother came up to his, and just slapped him around the ass and was like, hey tonight I'm gonna fuck you he's like I'm married my husband's in confinement bubub and I'm like you just told this is the one way he's right you told us about this yeah yeah he he

he went and grabbed he was on the weight bar he was on the weight bar working out next thing you know he couldn't grab he couldn't grab the knife and just what happened that guy what the punk

oh went to confinement with the confinement he already had a life sentence he had two double life sentences oh okay so what What is it, Matt? Okay, this is what you do. You kill somebody in Florida prison like that, right? You stop somebody up.

They don't, I mean, if you already got a double-life sentence, what you're going to happen, you're going to get sent to either Santa Rosa or you'll get sent to Florida State and Pentonet Entry. And you'll go to closed management. You'll be in closed management three to five years. And then when you're done there, then you go back on the compound. Like, like, that's it. Like, that's it. Like, what are you going to do? I mean, but now when you get people in closed management, there's been, because when I, when they sent me in closed management, I was like, man, there's some dudes who's been back at seven, eight, nine years. And like, that's a mind fuck. To be in a small one-man cell for, you know, 20 hours a day. I mean, it's a mind-fuck. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. If you like the video. Hit the, the subscribe button. Also, we're going to leave

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