Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - INSIDER LEAKS LEO'S BANNED TAPE!!! Exposing Leonardo DiCaprio, Diddy & Hollywood's Elite!

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

Hollywood Insider Dale Wheatley shares his first hand experiences with hollywoods elite like Leonardo Dicaprio, Toby Mcguire, and More! Get 15% when you use my link https://buy.ver.so/cox , this will auto apply the code "COX" when clicked. Dale's Book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D4528YJ1?ref=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&ref_=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&social_share=cm_sw_r_mwn_dp_Z1C42TMY1SG1N1ES5883&starsLeft=1&language=en_US Watch Don's Plum https://dalewheatleywrites.com Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7 Send me an email here: [e-mail] Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content? Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news   🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt 🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/re Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for $5.00 plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. We know that Leo was at the white parties. I see Leonard Cabrio and he's on his knees and he's at the side of my bed and she's naked and he's whispering in her ear and everybody is watching her. He's in the corner of my bedroom with a camcorder recording the whole thing. I met this guy called Jeremy Sistone. He was a very well-known actor today and at the time of rising star in Hollywood. And I met him serendipitously and we ended up becoming very fast friends. And he ended up introducing me to Jeff Goldblum. We played these acting games one night. And Jeff Goldblum remarked that I might have enough talent to make it in Hollywood. And so I took that as a sign to go. How did that come about? Like what did you do to push your way or wedge yourself into the industry and, you know, move up?

in my first week in landing in Hollywood, Jeremy says, let's go to a party. We walk into the house of the first person I'd see leaning up against the wall, Shannon Dory. She was the biggest star on television at the time. She was laying up against the wall with this sort of vixen-y look on her face. And I was like, wow, this is crazy. And then I glanced down, and there was a circle of people just, dude, sitting around one guy with his back against the wall, yakking away, enthusiastic to be at something. And I was like, man, that guy looks really familiar. this looks like that kid Leonardo DiCaprio, but I was like, there's no way it could be here.

Ah, come on. I mean, yeah, clearly the person at this party is connected because they're Shannon Doherty, but I mean, he's an Oscar-nominated actor. Maybe he's not a big star in the world, but that's not him, I thought, you know, and I just kind of went into the party, deeper into the party and mingling and seeing all these other familiar faces from TV and otherwise, but it turned out to be Leonardo DiCaprio. And so in my first week, there I am, right?

I'm thrust in one of the most incredible, you know, young Hollywood groups, you know, in town. It was, you know, led by Lee and Articabria, but filled with, you know, incredible faces and names, including Tobinam of Wire, et cetera, et cetera. So when it comes to Hollywood and when it comes to, like, that whole process, there's, like, I have met some of the most magnificent, incredible human beings. I think you can. So more good people live in that industry than that people. It's just that, unfortunately, in my experience, it's a corruption of power. That is the case. Then what happens? Because there are so many people that you know that like it's funny take uh take will smith i thought will smith was just the coolest guy

ever until the oscars i could not like i was just like what just happened and i thought and then it then suddenly it comes out where there's all these people saying oh yeah he's fake it's always been bullshit he's an asshole he's and it's like whoa like totally fooled history might be a great example i mean i don't know will smith but i can say that like it appears as though he's a great example of how like like power money and fame can lead to a level of corruption that you know that can just corrupt the way your life is functioning and a part i think it kind of stems from the fact that people who are like in all the good people i talked about there's this bad sort of thing that that that that i'll call it a bad thing for for the sake of this conversation but there's this there's this there's this thing that there's complicity right so they are complicit in the empowerment of these people who become corrupt as they grow in their strength and in their fame and their delusion, right? Because that's what I have experienced is that there's a separation between those who are delusional and those who aren't.

And the ones who are delusional in Hollywood and who have power create so much damage that is felt by everybody. It's the same thing we see in any kind of circumstance where, you know, if there's, if there's just enough bad guys, right, they can, they can create a lot of health for all the good guys. And that's what happens. And that's what happens to Hollywood. And in part is because there's a level of complicity because we,

want to acquiesce to the power, to the power, because the power will bestow upon us the fortune. So if I, if I can, if I can smile and say yes, even though it should be an emphatic no, right? I might get, I might even get more favor. If I turn my eyes from what I'm seeing, maybe I get more favor. And so there's a complicity amongst the good and the medium good to people in Hollywood that enables, right, emboldens these people to rise to this level of delusion and power that ripples down in ways that can create complete disruption and even destroy lives. And that's where I think people feast in the, in the sort of, you know, the gossipy sort of or whatever like the Hollywood rumor milling, right? They feast on that. But in the

like, but Hollywood, like all Hollywood needs to do to become a place that we can admire is that the good people need to start slapping the bad people out. They need to get them out. They need to say, you know, people like DiCaprio McGuire. These people need to be told, diddy, right? They need to be held accountable, first of all, if they're, if they're criming, but if they're just being immoral or if they're bullying, if they're being bad people, they need to be corrected by the good people. But instead, they're emboldened because they want to work with them, because they want to be benefited by the fame and fortune that has bestowed these people through their lives. It's frustrating. For sure. We talk a lot about crime on this show, but let's,

face it, some of the biggest crimes are committed by the government. You've heard the story before. Big Pharma swoops in to take control. Now, the FDA is trying to reclassify NMN, a natural compound in foods like broccoli and avocados, as a pharmaceutical drug. Why? Because NMN is so effective, they want to turn it into a pricey drug, keeping its health benefits out of the reach of most people. It's likely they're setting the stage for Big Pharma to profit, making it hard for us to access something that could dramatically support our life. The truth is, I lost over a decade in federal prison. So I want to stay as healthy as long as possible. I'm 55 years old, and I'm not ready to slow down. I stay active, eat right, and do all the things that we're supposed to do.

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body with something that could change the way you age. Click the link in the description box or head over to verso, v-er.so, and use the promo code Cox for 15% off your first order. Get it while you still can and take control of your health before the FDA and Big Pharma take it out of your hands. What were some of the projects that you, I mean, eventually you, you get to Hollywood, you start working, you start meeting people. What are some of the projects that were initially involved in? Jeremy Sisto, who was like an angel to me, he introduced me to this dude, Artie Robb, who was friends with Leonardo DiCaprio. And they were making a short film called Last Respects. And there was a role I was perfect for.

And so I got to audition for that. And that's kind of how I broke into that group that eventually led to. to, you know, this entire saga and drama. What happened with the, the project? Yeah. So I auditioned for it. I blew it. It was, I mean, I, like, it was the worst.

I'm the worst auditioner, I think, ever. I'm, I'm just so bad. I freeze. I die. Like, I'm a decent talent. You know, I'm not going to tell myself with something extraordinary, but I'm a decent talent. But let me if I can't audition for anybody.

And so we got together. We did this table read for. investors and, you know, my mouth dried up. I just died. I just died on Spotify. He's like I was working with Leonardo DiGabria. Like first thing. Like second thing I did and I'm at the table with Leonardo Cabri in front of all these investors. So I'm working with an Academy Award nominated act. I literally like acted in three things in my entire existence. So I really felt like I was like imposter syndrome to see me as hard as it possibly could in that moment. And I blew it. But the project like blew it. Like, you know, the project was poorly written by Artie Rob and

Artie Glacken at the time. So it was just a mess. And I overheard Lianna DiCaprio talking to Artie Rob and saying, I can't do this movie, dude. I can't. It's bad. And I just, I want to work with you. You're my buddy and I love you, but I can't make this. It's bad. And so Artie's like, shoulders dropped and, you know, just he was consumed by sadness and Leo laughed. And I pounced instantly. I was like, I can write. I can fix your problems. I can fix all this. Let me help you. And I didn't say it quite like that, but that was the feeling, you know, I was. He was like, hey, man, I'm a writer. You need some out.

And so he gave Artie Robb said, well, let me read something. And at that time, I had been handwriting a screenplay in my bathroom, oddly enough. And I just found this, like, real personal space. And I was writing this, like, really, really experimental kind of stuff. And so I handed him that, and he read it. He thought it was really fun. He really loved my dialogue. He thought I was talented.

And so he brought me on as a writer to try and fix the problems. And so I ended up writing that short with Artie Rob. for DeCabrio to star in, and we probably put about eight or nine months of work into that. And when we finally presented it to Leo, he's still passed. He was like, no, it's a no-go for me. I'm not going to do this. And I was devastated by that. But the producer we had on board, who was raising the money for the short,

he pitched a project that he had started called the Saturday Night Club. And it was about a group of friends who on Saturday nights meet up at a diner. and hang out every Saturday and they go through their, you know, their night of shenanigans, if you will. And so he had pitched that. He went and pitched that to Leo in Leo's bedroom after Leo rejected this movie that we had written. And Leo liked the idea. And so Leo, then, you know, we all kind of crowded around it. And, you know, there was some drama involved. But in the end, I was brought on board to co-write that with Artie Rob. And that's really one of the big opportunities really opened up and my life ultimately changed forever.

What, what, I mean, did you guys been, like, I don't recognize, what was, was that the ultimate name of it? Because I don't recognize what that ever made. No, it wasn't. So it becomes, it became the movie that is now known as, as Don's Plum. Have you heard of that? No. No?

Impossible. Don's Plum. No, you haven't heard of Don's Plum because Leonardo DiCaprio has been keeping it suppressed for decades. Okay. Okay. Leonardo DiGabrio had that film banished from the United States and Canada. That has been my plight.

That has been my fight. And we'll get into that more. But so in a law, and to shorten the story up a little bit, to kind of get into more of the juicy stuff, is that, you know, we ended up making the movie. We ended up shooting three days in July of 1995 with a cast to die for that included Leonardo DiCaprio, Toby McWire, Kevin Connolly, you know who that is? Yeah. Yeah, Kevin Connolly is from Entourage, right? Is that?

Entourage, correct. Yeah, I met him. I had, I had dinner with, well, no, no, we had drinks before dinner anyway. But, yeah, I met him. He tried to get me to sign up for his. He's got kind of like a podcast, like a production company that does podcast, and he's trying to get me to do it. Oh, to bring your podcast over to his.

Yeah, he was going to send me all the eyes. Listen, I'm fresh out of prison. And I met him in Puerto Rico. I went to go meet another producer in Puerto Rico. And while I'm there, he shows up. And so here's my story real quick. I give him a quick 20 minute, 30 minute pitch on my story because the producer said, you got to Kevin, you got to hear this. And so I ramble through, boom, just got out of prison only a couple months. You know, I had flown to Puerto Rico to meet to meet with some entrepreneurs that wanted me to come to lunch and talk with them for there was like like eight of them I think and just you know they paid me a couple thousand the fuck did you do all this how did this happen for you it's wild well no I was in the halfway house and I was trying to figure out how to put together a pot a true crime podcast because I was in prison and I'd written all these true crime stories when I saw that in your episode I saw that stuff yeah okay so when I was in halfway house I called a buddy who I well a buddy of mine knew a guy and named Danny Jones and I talked to Danny about like, hey, how does YouTube work?

I don't understand. How do you get paid? You know, what kind of cameras? And so after talking to him a few times, he goes, well, you come on my podcast, tell your story, see if anybody's interested. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I went and I talked for two hours. It got over two million views. And in the process, I got reached, people started producers, started reaching out to me

and an entrepreneur group. That's right. I remember this. People that want speaking, you to do like a keynote speaker. Somebody reached out and said, hey, man, next week we're having this thing in Puerto Rico. We'd like to fly you in to have lunch, you know, and they gave me a couple thousand to fly in. I think it was like 1,800 to fly in. And while I flew in, had lunch with them, they paid me.

That night, I also happened to have a friend that knew a producer that wanted to meet me. And she happened to be in Puerto Rico. So we're like, oh, this is perfect. So I went to San Juan met with her. And when I'm talking to her, Kevin Connolly shows up. And I was like, e, you know? Yeah, that's going to be a shock, right? You know, yeah.

So, you know, and I'd never really, I've only watched it, had only watched a few entourages. But, you know, I, he, I recognize him. He sat down and he was like, oh, she's like, he wants to start a podcast. You know, I want to, I want to talk to him about some of his stories. And so we're talking. And as we're talking, he says, man, I own a podcast production company. Like, you should, you know, I can hook you up. I can send you the equipment.

I can this. Like that. And he was all, I was like, you know, but I just didn't get a great feeling from him, you know, and he was very, he was very pushy. You know, I don't know anything. So I'm not going to jump right in. So instead of kind of treating me with kid gloves, you know, he was just like, you know, bro, you got to do this.

You know, he's just pushy, pushy, pushy, pushy, bad salesman. Yeah, well, it's funny because I think a lot of people, there's a certain, I think he has a sense of entitlement. I mean, I'm this me, but like that, hey, I'm, I'm, I'm, you don't say no to me. Why would you say no to me? Who the fuck are you going to go with somebody who's not even? Well, listen, he even... The new BMO ViPorter MasterCard is your ticket to more.

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you don't even need that and it was just like you know you don't even need that and i was like yeah i know but i like that aspect of it because you know i i like looking at the person i like that kind of that interaction. You can see that on film. And so I'm trying to explain it. He's very dismissive. And then he said, and he was like, he's like, bro, he's like, I got a chick right now doing true crime, making $40,000 a month. He goes, I mean, honestly, he was, I'm trying to help you out here. He's like, you just got out of prison. And I remember thinking, we're done talking. Like you. Yeah, I was like you. I was thinking to myself, so what? I'm on the bottom rung. You're throwing me a crumb and I'm supposed to jump like, hey, bro, I'm perfect. I think I even

told him, dude, I hate to say this, but I'm, I'm sleeping in someone's spare room right now in a halfway, I mean, like a rooming house. I was like, and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. I'm not normally doing anything. He just, I think he just didn't understand that. Yeah. You know, so I trust me, sleeping in that in that spare room was a huge step up from prison. And I'm thrilled. Driving a car that can barely get me to working back. Thrill. so we were you know and hey honestly he may have been doing me a favor but he he didn't come off it didn't he was not didn't come off well to me it just but anyway I'm sorry you know you're good man that's a cool story and it's and it's interesting because like it's you know it's interesting to

hear that about him he's he he and I can I can totally see that I mean I knew him very well we were we were I would consider I consider us close friends at the time he might be a great guy it was wonderful i mean i loved him until then he then he became not such a good guy we'll talk about that as we go on but so yeah the the film was uh you know i still his phone number i was gonna say i kind of want to show it but i still his phone number in my he gave me his phone number really a three one zero number it was his mobile number i don't think i've ever texted him chevin's in the three one oh yeah so um yeah so i didn't you know so the film had all these really big names in it and what we did was we were so there's a uh a u k filmmaker that inspired

the f*** out of us called Mike Lee. You made a movie called Naked. And if you haven't seen him, just watch it. It's just genius. And what was so inspiring about this guy, and it was his approach. He did everything improvisationally.

We loved that. And when David pitched this project to Leo, he only had 10 pages or so of a screenplay. So there was nothing there. And we were all very excited about improv because we had all seen Naked and other Mike Lee films. Well, I think there was only one other at the time, actually. So, but we'd seen both life is sweet and naked together, actually, and we loved it.

It blew our minds, just creatively. And so it was like a perfect fit when David pitched this opportunity because it was a chance to make the movie improvisationally. And when you do that, when you take that kind of a deep dive, which very few people, if anybody was doing in America at the time, you kind of jumping into a big sort of like, you're kind of like, it's an empty-handed, like, leap into the void. You really don't know what's going to come out of this situation. because it's improvisation.

So what we did is we wrote this project really creatively. We actually did it on index cards, and then we created each of the characters and all their scenarios, and we stacked these index cards in front of them, and we rehearsed for several weeks prior to shooting, and then we assembled three cameras, three super 16 millimeter cameras and a massive crew, and we shot for three days,

and it was just a miracle. I mean, it was one of the most magical things ever. Don's Plum was accepted into Berlin Film Festival. It was accepted into the Sundance Film Festival. It was a film that was anticipated to go out and do, you know, the film, kids? It's a key if you don't. It was a very popular film in the early 90s, or mid-90s,

that came out a very visceral movie, very raw. And it did like $30 million in box office. And back then there was a big deal, especially since it had a million dollar budget. Yeah. Or maybe it was a very small budget. My budget was much smaller. It was like $100,000. But it was my film was, you know, the belief was that Don's Plum was going to do those kinds of numbers.

So we had, so we shot in three days, 75% of a feature film in three days. Okay. I mean, it's the most unheard of thing. I mean, it's practically a miracle. And when you, when you watch the film, it's engaging, it's a deeply engaging movie. If you see it all the way to the end, most people don't watch it to the end, particularly those who might complain about it in some way. But if you watch the way to the end, it's artistically wonderful. Like, it's an art house film.

It's got, you know, loads of, you know, really visceral, you know, sort of experimental filmmaking and storytelling going on in the 90s. It's super raw. It's gritty. It kind of makes you feel icky in the end. But it's a substantial achievement in its, in its, in its, in its, in its, in its, in its scope, right? It's not Titanic, right? We didn't have $200 million to make our movie. We had a movie with less than $100,000 and what we accomplished was extraordinary. So there was this, there was tension around the film immediately with Leo because Leo was a rising

star and he didn't and couldn't afford to have a really bad movie. Right? And that makes sense. And so what we did is we assured Leo that we would never release a bad movie. In fact, we would not release a movie that he didn't approve of. That was our deal. He was cool with And so we got to cutting it after this incredibly, like almost spiritual weekend of shooting. And six months later, we finally raised enough money to cut it. We were broke, so we had to sit and wait for months before we didn't get to the footage. But when we finally did, everything that we had thought happened did. There was just this incredible movie unfolding.

We shot for three more days to get some pickups and to shoot, reshoot the opening because everything that we shot for the opening failed. So we had to reshoot all of that. and then we have to get some pickups as well. And then in the summer of 1996, at MGM Studios, we screen the movie for Lee and I, DiCaprio and about 100 other people. Maybe a little more than that, including all of our friends, cast and crew and some industry insiders like distributors and that sort of thing,

just to get people, giving it people, you know, sample, you know, the interest out there, possibly. And it was just a massive success. Leo jumping up and down, loving it. Blue was mine. Didn't see it coming. Leo was like, I did not see this coming. And then he sent us to his agents.

We screened it for them. They approved the movie. And not only did they approve the movie, it's CAA. And not only did they approve the movie, but they signed the director. And they took on the movie as, Mani Nunes, who repped producers' projects,

took on Don's Plum. And Don's Plum was ready to, uh, pours to go to the moon. And at that point, We had Harvey Weinstein was making, was making offers, you know, who, you know, obviously, this, you know, his months, you know, his crimes aside, at the time, he was the most prolifically important person in independent film. And he was making an offer. And he was like, yeah, I mean, he launched Tarantino. I mean, obviously he's a scum of the earth.

Yeah, but at what he was doing. Say it again, sorry? At the time, at the time, that wasn't an issue. He was, you know, he was, you know, active in his. You know, in his crimes at the time. At the time, he was just a big shot offering money. So what, how did, so it hit box off? I'm assuming something went wrong.

Something was really wrong, man. Yeah, Toby McGuire shows up. First of all, so that to set us up a little bit, Toby, when Toby and I worked together on Don's Plum, Toby was nobody. Right. He was nobody. Absolutely. This is before.

Spider-Man. So far before, yeah, like, it was before Sider House rules. It was before Ice Storm, if you know what that movie is. And that's the movie that really got him going. Was the, and what was the horse one? There was the one with the horse. Yes, he just gave back came later, but yeah. See, the horse was after Spider-Man, right?

It was, yeah. It was him, you know, attempting to, like, gain credibility as, I guess, a talent. But in any case, he was absolutely nobody. by the time that we had finished shooting and started to cut. He had this short, Toby did, called the Duke of Groove that got nominated for an Oscar. And all of a sudden, everybody's calling Toby's number, right? And he brought on this big, huge manager. And the next thing you know, Toby's stars starting to rise.

And he lands on Lee's ice storm. And An Lee was this, like, big up and coming, like, not even up and coming. I mean, he directed this movie called Eat Drink, Man, Woman, brilliant Chinese film. And he became this, like, beautiful, art. art house director and one of the most, you know, sort of sought after directors for movie stars to work with in Hollywood. Toby lands the ice storm. Massive deal. His star, Toby's star starts to rise. All the while, Don's Blum is coming into its form. You know, we're cutting it together. It's looking amazing. More people, more money coming on board. There's excitement around it

and all this while Toby's star is rising. We finally, as I said, we screened for Leo, right? Toby wasn't available because he was shooting the Ice Storm at the time. So he couldn't actually come and see the movie when everybody else did. He did get a sneak peek at 72 minutes of the film before he went to Ice Storm, something I did for him, or we did for him, as a favor because he was not going to be available to see the film with everybody else when we did, you know, the cast and crew screening for Leo. So then Leo, so Leo loves the film, he approves the film, Toby returns from Ice Storm.

and I'm sitting at home with Artie Rob, the director, we're roommates, and we're just hanging out and all of a sudden we get this call, and Toby wants to talk to us. He's like, I've got to talk to you. I've got a problem. I've got a problem. I've got a problem. What the fuck is your problem? Now, at the time, we have offers from Miramax and several other distributors, including the same distributor that distributed kids, the movie they made for a million dollars and did $30 million in the box office and launched careers galore, right? We're in business. CAA, as a matter of fact, told us that Sundance has a done deal. We're in Sundance.

So we have Sundance, we have Miramax, and other distributors. We have a massive Japanese distributor who's ready to throw significant seven-figure deal on the table for the Japanese rights. I'm in business, dude. Like, I'm about to hit big. I went from drinking water for food to getting picked up in limousines because people want to buy my shit. It was an incredible time. It was a heady time. to be sure.

We get a call. Toby wants to come over. He's got a problem. Ding dong. Doorbell rings. There's Toby. He's got a Ralph's grocery store bag in his hand. He comes in and he gives us a hug and he walks in.

He's got to cook us dinner. Okay. And he pulls out a box of macaroni and cheese. He says, let's have dinner. I'm going to make you dinner. Mac and Chief and tofu weeers. Extraordinary.

He says he's got a bone to pick. He says he's got problems. He has issues with the film. and he's there's a tension there's an anger it's like what the fuck's going on just really kind of out of left field there was tension around the film and all that described well inside the book nothing we need to get into here but the tension the tensions in him were far exceeding anything that we'd run into and all that by the way that previous tension that I was talking about was all about the skepticism around whether or not the film was any good and that really just like fell to the wayside once everyone

saw it which is something I assured everybody during the tense times I was like just let us finish the movie and when you see the movie it'll be what it is but we think it's it's powerful we think it's special and we hope you feel the same way. And that's how I kind of always sort of, that was my party line of you will to everyone throughout, you know, the process of cutting the film and until we premiered it for everybody. Toby screams. Start screaming at us.

I want Dawn's plumbed up. Burr. Fucking his veins just out like cords on his neck screaming in our faces. What the fuck is wrong with you? Losing his mind. Artie's like, you need to get the fuck out of my house. You got to get the fuck out of here, dude. I'm not doing this shit.

I calm everything down because I'm that guy, right? I'm not, I'm a bit of a mark. I am a bit of a mark because I'm that guy who wants to please. You know, I was a heavily abused kid. And I think that the result of that, and this is also self-diagnosis. This is professionally diagnosed. But I feel like, you know, my father was physically abusive, very physically abusive. And so I was always like trying to please him, always trying to please him,

trying to quell that anger that that I knew was going to bring wrath to me and pain to me that was practically unbearable. And so when Toby, it was. roughed in a similar way to my dad might. It's the exact same thing. I was like, let me help me. I can make this better. We can talk this through. This doesn't have to become violent, right? And that's what's going on. Hardy Rob's like, fuck you, I'm going to bed. But not me. I'm like, I got to stay with Toby and I got to make him feel better. It turned into, it turned into like a 12-hour interrogation by Tobin the Wire. I mean, I'm literally falling asleep. He's waking me up. I want answers like crazy shit. We moved buildings. We were in my apartment. And then he was

like, let's go to Bob Valards, this place in which he was living while he was in from town and in between residences. So we go to this guy, Bob Ballard's house. And at that time, one of the things that Toby attributes to his success is Alcoholics Anonymous. So we're at his house and he's going through this interrogation and it's just horrible. And then he goes through this process of telling me what's changed his life and why he's so successful now. And it was alcoholic's anonymous and he goes into this like like this thing about how i'm an alcoholic he's like you you know you you you're an alcoholic yeah and we can help you he like he's like just deconstructing me he's like what the fuck is going on i'm like i'm not an alcoholic and he's like pointing out like some of the

shitty things i did when i was drunk because i i did make mistakes you know i'm a flawed guy but alcoholic i was not asshole yeah i did some asshole things but alcohol no but he's breaking me down kind of deconstructing me he wants to know what the worst thing that happened during Don's Plum was that was his obsession. I want to know. This isn't squeaky clean. You guys did something, something. Don't tell me there wasn't something said. There wasn't, you guys did something shady. I was like, there's nothing there. And he just kept pursuing this. And this is what he kept waking me up from when I would nod out from being up all night. So, I'm going to do a little flashback now, if you don't mind.

Yeah. previous to all of this, Leonardo DiCaprio, we had set up the screening at MGM for Leonardo DeCabria. And Leo had agreed to come, and we had this whole thing arranged that literally involved hundreds of people, or a couple hundred people probably, right? And we get this call from Leo,

and he's like, dude, I'm sorry, bro, I can't make the screening. What? Two days before. What the fuck do you mean? You can't make the screening. This whole thing is for you. I'm sorry, bro. It's Juliette Lewis's birthday, and I forgot, and I'm flying at Las Vegas.

I'll be in Vegas. I can't make it. But set it up for next week, and the week after the following week, because I'm still in town. He was on hiatus from, I don't know what movie. But he was like, I'm still in town for another week, so we'll do it. Then it was a disaster for us. It was horrible. It's the worst thing that happened.

Well, our executive producer had arranged for a small announcement in variety announcing the film so that distributors would know that it exists so that when he goes and starts calling them, they would be like, oh, yeah, I saw it in the trades. And that would give us a bit of an edge to try and get good money, right? So he made this announcement in Variety, and it hit before Leonhard DeCabry saw the movie.

Before the screening on Friday morning, or Friday noon is when the variety hit the stands, it was on the shelf and the article was in it. And Leo exploded with anger because he had not yet approved the movie. So he went, like we got this, this, vicious, like made me shake voicemail from him.

I'm mad, like mad. I'm not going to the party. I'll be at the screening. It's going to be at the screening. So that's how we got Leo to the screening is we fucked up and put an ad, basically an announcement in the trades. It got him furious.

So he put, so he changed his plans and he came to the screening. It was actually a good thing for us because he ended up seeing the movie loving it and everything worked out for us in the long run. And we were able to easily apologize for that mistake, right? Because it was a small announcement. Yeah, yeah.

yeah it was already in the works yeah we fucked up we shouldn't have done that apologies won't do that again thank you that was the end of it as far as I was concerned and it should have been for for there's nothing salacious you know there was no like oh it was you know small announcement these guys made a movie that's all it says essentially well uh so toby McGuire knows about this and this variety article tension so in this all night session And Toby's like, what about the variety article? I was like, well, actually, there was one thing with that. And I'm tired.

And I've just been browbeated and derogated. And when you read it in the book and you see what, when you kind of, you kind of, the cool thing about the book is that I put you in it. It's not like a book where I'm sitting there telling the story in the way that I'm telling you today. It's actually you're in the seat. You're there. It's like, it's cool that way. So I'm like, well, there was one thing.

Yeah, there was one thing. He was like, well, what was it? I was like, you know, when Leo was all pissed off. He was like, what's the one thing? and you had to have heard something, he said. That's what triggered me. I was like, yeah, I did hear one thing. He's like, what was that?

I was like, well, you know, when Leo was freaking out about the variety article, Jerry Meadors, who put the article in and who was the executive producer of our film, he got angry about the way that Leo was behaving about the whole thing because he was freaking out about it. And he was like, and he said something like, well, at least he, well, if he's angry about us making an announcement, at least he knows we have a voice in the press. This is what he said in our little meeting. We brushed it off as stupid, right? like RD was like Jerry that's ridiculous yeah I'm sure Leo's shaking in his boots right

because it was a stupid thing to say but it wasn't like it actually wasn't a stupid thing to say let me stand correct it because Jerry Meadows doesn't say anything stupid in my opinion he's actually a really like he's a bona fide brilliant executive in Hollywood what he did was he had a reaction you know Leonardo Cabrero was threatening all the shit about our movie and being a jerk off over a stupid little article to him it was a you know this puny thing and he was like you know grow up at least you know we have a voice in the press kind of like you in that way So I said, Toby, yeah, Jerry said that and I thought it was really stupid. He went nuts.

Toby went, that's it. He said, you fuckers, you're going to pit the press against Leo. He blew the whole thing. I'm pitting the press against Leo. We're going to try to ruin Leo's career over Don's plum. He just destroyed everything. Prior to him freaking out all this stuff, I had agreed to go to AA because he kept coercing me into him.

Go to A, wait, just come to this meeting, do it for me, support me. And so I said, okay, I agreed to go. So he blows up this whole thing, accuses me of, of, of, of admitting to us pitting the press against Leonardo DiCaprio. And when you put this into perspective, you know, I had everything at this point. Like, I was, I was, I was about to, I was about to be made. Like, it was done. You know, it was all about whether or not we were going to, what we were going to do with

it afterward. There was no question about whether it was going to happen, you know, I had succeeded. We had, you know, we had beaten all the bonds. So Toby lost his mind. And he, again, court screaming, you were trying to over my friend. I'm, we're meeting with Leo tonight. They called a meeting. I did not sleep until through the whole day.

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at the checkout to save a whopping 50% off site wide. It's all happens in 24 hours, dude, 24 hours. My life was destroyed. My art was taken from me. My friends were gone. I was ostracized from the industry in one single night. That evening. So Leo's agents called us between Toby dropping me off and us meeting with Leo later that

at Kevin Connolly's house and Kevin Connolly recorded the old night. So between that time, Leo's agent called us. He said, what the fucking happened? And Leo's agents was like, this is going to blow over.

You guys are just having a little fucking friend fight. It's going to be fine. I knew different. I knew that Toby was after something more than, I didn't realize at the time what was going on. I thought I needed to smooth his. I don't either. I don't understand what he was after either.

I don't understand why Ben, and kind of an independent film, just harms you when it was made a few years ago and now maybe you're a Spider-Man, but so what? You know, you, everybody starts somewhere and it's an independent film and it's decent. What's the problem? Well, it's a very revealing movie, right?

It's highly, it's entirely improvised. There was a scene in the movie that he became very sensitive about when I described it to him before he had actually seen a to-y. And the scene is that they're sitting around and it's, The improv was it's a improv. And the objective was one of the things that I thought we dealt with growing up in the 80s

and 90s was like shame around things like shame around things, right? Right. And we we wanted to address that a little bit. And so we did this thing called a macrove where people talk about beating off. And during

this improv, Toby's character, Ian, confesses to fingering his butthole when he beats up. And it's just like, like Leo's reaction was amazing. Like he was just like, oh, like it's just just just,

homophobic like, like just, like just, he was just repulsed by it. And it was like, it was awesome. The whole thing was captured beautifully on these three cameras and it's just this great exchange.

And Toby's talking about how, um, with the finger of your ass is way more fun. Okay. So when I told Toby that it was, actually it was a really, really great moment in the movie. It was really honest. It was really, it was like, it was brave, you know, like to do in front of girls at a table. And I don't know, man.

I loved it. I thought it was a really special moment in the movie, actually. And it cut together beautifully. Leo's, you know, strong reaction to it was really important. And it's just a whole, the whole thing was really on theme. You know what I mean? It was perfect, actually. And it was also a moment that I thought showed some of the best acting coming on.

I told him because he asked me like about how the movie was going at one point when we were hanging out and I told him there was a scene that I thought was particularly vulnerable and special he asked me to describe the scene for him I did he was more fine he was like fuck I was like I don't really do that I was like I don't think anyone cares dude yeah but I'm saying I don't I was like okay you're an actor you're you're you're you know what you're playing a part you know I don't think anybody I believe believe believe it or not I don't think that, I don't think Leonardo DiCaprio drowned during Titanic. I feel like I've seen it then.

You know what I'm saying? I don't even think the water was that cold. I know. And I think, yeah, exactly. And I think he could have fit on that door that the chick was on. I think it was, you know. Yeah, like move over, man. I'm assuming, you know, because I'm a fairly sharp guy, that maybe that was just kind of

in the script and it was just kind of, you know, playing the character and what you were told to kind of do. even if you had to even if you ad lipped it it was like yeah but this is where we're going you're not getting on that raft you're not getting on that door so um anyway so go ahead so so so this is is this the one scene that he's upset about or just are there in general he doesn't want to be painted in a bad light in right i don't think i think it was less about him being painted in a bad light and just the whole like the film is a whole both the film is raw dude it's raw right and it's real.

And that was the purpose of it. Yeah. And so I think I think the problem was that it made him, it worked, I think he was concerned that it would, that it would seem more like it was real and less about him acting. And so that meant then that it was representative of him as a person. And it shouldn't have been, right? Like, because it was an improv and not only wasn't an improv, but it was written. And, you know, we have all the stuff we've written and we have the rehearsals on tapes.

And, you know, we know. we know what it was. We all know that it was all fiction. People are genuinely, genuinely believe that what they're watching is real. Right. It's genuinely not real. Right. It was all written, all the garbage stories. They're all written. There's nothing real going on. But it's, but, but, you know, we had one of the best castes ever assembled in a independent film. And I'm not, I'm not, I don't think I'm exaggerate. You know, it starts with Leonardo DiCaprio. So let's just go there, right? And then trickle down. I just, we had an extraordinary cast. You know who Jenny Lewis is? No, but that doesn't mean anything because I don't know who anybody is.

That's okay. I'm just, you know, it's worth asking. She is an independent musician of great fame from Ryle L. Kiley. She's just an absolute fierce talent. And she plays one of the female leads in this. And I mean, her performance is breathtaking in terms of like how wonderful it is, toe to toe with DeCabrio. Incredible work. You know, we had an incredible cast. We had something really, really, really special and it comes through. It affects you viscerally. You know, when we were screening this movie, we were testing it before we even screened for DeCabwe, we did some tests. People were coming out of there just shaken by it, you know, because it's not because it's just because it makes you realize

like just what we were up against as kids in the 90s, you know, as young, people coming into our moment. So it's just a viscerally real movie and I think he was very afraid that that was going to rub off. And I go into extreme, like, well, not extreme. I present a theory in the book that I think is a very plausible theory about why Tobin Wire lost his mind. Because it is a mystery, just to be sure. When I talk about true crime, it's a mystery. Why he did this. I just, it happened.

But here's what became very real. At first I was like, it's because he was jealous. At first I was like, because he was always talking about how he was next in line from Leo. Did you know that he and Leo were both up for, do you know what this boy's life is? Yeah. did you know they were both up for it no yeah they were both competing for that part and leo beat them they've been best friend they were they were friends before that and they they've been best friends ever since and i am certain that that that toby to this day carries

that around i mean my god if you're if you're second best to decaprio i mean that's a pretty i'll take i think most people would cut their cut their left arm off to be in that spot like what do you Well, it changed Leo's life in ways that, you know, I mean, Leo worked with Robert De Niro at, you know, at the height of De Niro's, you know, abilities, really, you know, is, and, you know, certainly at one of the peaks of his career, De Norems, you got to work with Alan Barkin, you know, when you're, when you're in, you know, a teenager and you're trying to break in and you get that, that's, that's just as big as it gets, dude, there's nothing bigger. And it doesn't, being second is horrible. Because being second, because being second, mean that you never work because being second means you didn't get the job. And that job changed Leonard DeHabryo's life. He thanks, he to this day talks about how it changed his life because it was the first time that people saw this kid really apt. But Toby went on to do great things.

So, right. But destroy his life. Well, no, but I think there was a rivalry. Right. I can, okay, there's rivalry. But that, so, but that, that, that justifies going around crushing, uh, everybody else that you work with or all these people that have put all this fine and energy? No, not at all, but it does it for me, at least, it establishes that there might be something

going on in terms of a competitive nature for this guy, that he might have something fiercely competitive about him, that he, there's something he wants to prove. Like, he's, and I say that because of my experience with him, right? He's, he's said repeatedly, I'm going to be bigger than Leo. He said repeatedly, I'm going to make more money. Not am I going to make more money than Liena DiCaprio. I'm going to be the highest. Stop.

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Tickets on sale now. August 1st. Paid actor in Hollywood. These are things he said repeatedly, and I never believed a word of it. And the reason is because I thought I couldn't imagine that his face would ever become a star ever. Like, you know, his talent is fine. And that was the other thing. I never thought he was that great of an actor.

It's an opinion. Others may, you know, have a different opinion. never thought he was very strong and still don't think that about him. I haven't seen all of his work, but I've seen enough to, and worked with them. And I just think he's okay. So that he was saying these things about his, his future, to me, was almost comical. But his ambition and his ability to pursue things is, I think, probably at the highest level. You know, I think he's, he's exceedingly good at getting what he wants, despite obstacles, even, you know, average face, an irritating voice, and a mediocre talent.

And with those things, don't hold that. He built an empire. Yeah, well, it's how I feel. It's definitely my opinion. And I would have, I had that opinion of him when I was a friend. So it just literally, I mean, that's never not, that first time I met him, I thought he looked like Jojo the dog faceboard because he just had the shaggy, he's shaggy, hair. He had this tough thing. And he slipped awful to me. And I was like, this is Hollywood. Fuck,

I might make it around here. It was like one of those if he can, I can situations. So I think that what happened was that Toby saw an opportunity to be something like a all-American kid, the nerdy kid. I actually get into a theory that I believe that Spider-Man was introduced to Toby McGuire in 1995, 1996, at the same time of Don's plum. through Leo because of a James camera connection. And that's sort of where the book kind of focuses in terms of like a motivation for Toby

to do what he did. But what he did was he took a torch and he lit on his plum and he burned it to the ground in one single night. We all met at Kevin Conlin's. It's a night that R.D. and I refer to as the bludgeoning, the verbal blushing. It was just pure abuse. And it was

recorded by Kevin Connolly, who says later that that recording was stolen. When we, when the when the litigation happened and we said produce all got stolen right because people break into houses risk incarceration and take micro cassettes and run out of the house with it because it's the stupidest thing I've heard in my life but in any case throughout that entire night they just verbally bludgeoned us told us that they were going to destroy us kicked us out of the house broken and and and obliterated and then uh from that day forward my life uh went

completely to hell and I lost everything. And when I say everything, I mean, I don't, I still don't even talk about them. So, or most of them. So, uh, I lost my friends. I lost my money. I lost my future. I lost my dream. I lost my right to pursue my dream because I got blacklisted by Tobin McIre. Right. By Leonhard de Cabri. But then, you know, this all when the, when the shit hit the fan, it was 1996. Uh, the dispute broke out in the, uh, the dispute broke out in the, late summer 96, and we settled in 99 after the Lee and I had become the biggest star in the world. So it was prior to Titanic, as you know, and as we established, but it wasn't until Titanic that we were even able to get a lawyer because nobody, we didn't have any money. And the lawyer was going to take our case on a contingency basis because Leah was in a star.

He was worth a couple million bucks that were like, we're not getting anything out of this fucking guy. When it became Titanic, we were getting phone calls from the biggest lawyers in town. so all right so they shut the whole thing down decaprio has the ability to say i'm not happy with the film is that what happens well what happened was he broke a law he he interfered with our prospective economic advantage right and he started calling up distributors and telling them that if they worked with us they would never work with lean our decaprio and so lean so miramax went away trimark went away first look went away CAA went away

all of our friends went away everybody went away literally within seven days of Toby McWire coming in and torching everything every single opportunity every single relationship that industry relationship gone

every single thing we had a three picture deal from Jersey films which was Danny DeVito's company so they called us in after seeing Don's plum and gave us three picture three million dollar deal So we went from $100,000 to make our first movie.

We had a million dollar budgets for three movies, do whatever you want. Be artists. Like the dream come true, my friend. Like everything I've ever wanted. I didn't ever want to be a commercial guy. I never wanted that for me ever in my life unless I was just getting paid as an actor. But as an artist, as a writer, as a director, as a producer, for me, it's all our house or nothing. It's just where I live.

It's where I breathe. It's where I fucking thrive. It's my contribution. It's the thing I can do best. So it's where I want to be. Three Picture Deal from Jersey Films. is as good as life could ever be. And Toby went into that man's office

and told them that we fucked over Leonardo DiCaprio and that if they work with us, there'll be consequences. And so we got dropped by every single opportunity we had. And it didn't stop. It didn't ever stop. Toby McGuire, you know, did horrible things to people publicly who tried to support us or show any kind of support for us.

It was just a vicious attack. And here's the interesting thing. as everything was leading up to it, one of the things that made that night with Toby so explosive was I, he got me to somehow, I, you know, it's, I, I, just put it out in the book and it's a little too much to get into here, but he was able to coerce out of me that I had some issues with Decavrio because Decavrio was doing weird shit, like really weird shit. And like degrading humiliation shit. Humiliation, like, public humiliation within our groups of friends, you know, a group of friends. It was really God-awful shit.

And it was really bothering me. And Toby 2 was also doing really weird. Like, I'm going to dominate you kind of stuff. And it came up in our one-on-one at Baffle Arts that night. And I voiced my opinion about it. I said, like, man, Leo's tripping me out with what the shit he's doing. I'll share with you one of the stories. I don't want to reveal them all because the book is, oh, I mean, it's too much to cover, frankly.

Right. Okay. And I wouldn't mind selling a couple books if I could. Right. But, yeah, they were doing really weird shit, and I brought it up. And at some point in that, in our meeting, like, or in our 101 meet Toby's, Toby says, man, I still think you hate the camera. I was like, no, man, I just don't, I don't understand what's going on.

Like, there was, you know. And so if, anyway, if you want me to get into that moment, I can. Yeah. Yeah, what is the, what is the thing you said at your, you'll share one of the. Yes, the thing I'll share is the kind of thing I'm, I'm sort of comfortable coming out with in public. And, you know, the first time I came out with this story, by the way, obviously, I spent four years writing the book. So, you know, but it just happened. I literally did this other YouTube channel to kind of announce the book, just days.

I recorded it just days before Diddy was arrested. So, and this, and this was the topic on that, on that podcast. And the guy was like, holy shit, I can't believe the connection, particularly with Leo and Diddy, apparently, at least being friends. So it's Christmas Day. I'm sad. It's my second Christmas in a row that I didn't make it home. Christmas was like, you know, I had a rough life. I love my father.

He was an abusive guy, real abusive guy, but I don't know what it is about loving people who hurt you, loving bigots. I don't know. But I love him. It was my dad, you know. Right. And I love my mom and I love my brother. And I, and I wasn't home for Christmas for the second time, only the second time in my life and the second time in a row. Because if I leave the country, right, I might not get back in.

So I couldn't go home. And it was very sad. So I had a sad day. I called my mom and that was sad. I was just kind of lugging around. Then suddenly friends started to accumulate and we started having a good time. We went to Jerry's Deli. We partied there and we got back to the condo where I was living with Artie Robb. And there's a crowd of people, six, seven, eight people.

I don't know, whatever it was. We was a small crowd, sort of Christmas orphans, Leon and DiCaprio among them. And also among them was a television star who I have named Emily Foster. I've redacted her name for reasons forthcoming So Anyway, we're all party, whatever, having a good time

I'm downstairs smoking a cigarette And I can't remember who was But one of the guys came down there like Dude, you got to see this something's happening in your room With Leo and I'm like, what the fuck you're talking about? He's like, he's like, Emily Foster's getting off in your room And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, now you got to see this shit

So he drags me, I go walking up the stairs And there's like a crowd of people outside of my bedroom There's a landing that separates two bedrooms Here's a doorway to mine here's a door he already robs room and then there's this landing and on that landing are about i don't know group of people whatever five six seven people and they're gawking inside and so i look around and i see leonard cabrio and he's on his knees and he's at the side of my bed and emily foster is laid out on my bed and she's naked and he's whispering in her ear and everybody is

watching her and let me tell you something emily foster was not an exhibitionist Emily Foster was infatuated with Leo. She was also one of the biggest TV stars in the world at that time. Household name. If I dropped her name right now, I think everybody would know who she is. And I think, sadly, people would probably change their opinion of her in some way or that it would affect in some way their opinion of her. And that's disturbing to me because their focus is really on Leo in the situation.

Because he used, he had no interest in her. We had discussions about it because I thought it was shitty from him, right? previous to this you know and so did others i witnessed these conversations where we're like we all dude you're you're leading around he's like no we're not we're just friends and like bro you're playing this is bullshit and then it culminates really on this night christmas night where he literally coerced this woman into this humiliating act in front of everybody it changed everybody's opinion of her obviously and to boot in the corner scientologist ethan supley in the corner of my bedroom with a camcorder recording a whole damn thing.

So he's got this television star whose life and like, I don't know if you remember the climate in the 90s, but in the 90s, dude, like, people talk about cancel culture today. People get away with everything today compared to back then. If you got, like, outed for something, it was the only news they got. There was no internet. Things didn't spread like wildfire.

They were controlled by the press. And if the press decided to take you, in your story, you're done. And if a tape came out back then, you mean, you remember these separate tapes? I mean, it literally like changed lives. So he was putting at risk this person's entire career,

her entire fortune that she had spent, you know, in a matter of her time and created self to achieve. And all of that now is in jeopardy because Ethan Sopley has this compliment on this tape. That he, now, you know,

it's just interesting that he recorded in the first place. And what's even more interesting than that is, Eventually, this dispute leads to a litigation, right? We end up in this big, giant lawsuit, and we do these depositions. And during the deposition, we asked for discovery, right? You know, you're familiar with that term? Yeah.

Right? So discovery is when we go and we find out what they have, what evidence they have that can either prove or just prove our story. And they're supposed to, by subpoena, provide that for us during the lawsuit. So we subpoenaed that tape. Now, the reason we subpoenaed that tape wasn't because we wanted the Emily Foster photo. it was because we know, or we believe, that we spoke about Don's Plum and Leone and DiCaprio tried to assert legally that we were keeping secrets about it.

We weren't ever. We never did. I keep a feature film secret. Ridiculous thing I've heard in my life from the people who are in it. It was the most stupidest thing I've ever heard. But we thought that Ethan, who was recording throughout the night, that there would be proof on that tape. Right.

That we would be talking about Don's Plum, that Leo would have talked about Don's Plum. But the tape also contained this footage of Emily Foster. And so Ethan lost it in the deposition, and he threatened to burn the evidence. Now, to be fair, full disclosure, he thinks it's photographs. I'm absolutely certain it wasn't for two reasons. The first and foremost is that Leonhard de Gabrio would have never let Ethan Soply take photographs on film of that night. No way.

He would have never let Ethan Soply take that role of film, right? There were no digital cameras in 1995. You would have taken that role of film. film to CVS, right, to the photo mat, right? He was not going to let his career whispering, again, into a famous woman's ears while she's clearly for the camera, he's not going to let that go to the phone. There's just no way. So I know it's video because it would be controlled into that, under these situations.

And the other thing is I saw it. I feel confident that my memory is correct, and it was video today. So it was a disturbing night. And what was even more disturbing is that when he was threatening to throw that evidence away, years later during the deposition, it occurred to me, holy shit, you still have it. You still have it. Why would you still have that? Like, they're best friends.

Like, if I had a compromise on you and you're my best friend, first of all, I would imagine you're going to ask me to get rid of it, probably. Right. But if you don't, I wouldn't I? You know? Maybe he forgot that he had, you know, take the biggest star in the movie, a movie star on the world on it, possibly.

So that's the story that leads to like that story. And that was the particular one that was most disturbing to me when I was talking to Toby that, right? I was like, why did he do that? What was that about? Was he wasn't to get off himself? It wasn't to get me off, right? Why would he do that?

And I said, I think it was because he wanted to humiliate her for some reason. And I think that reason is misogyny. That's my personal opinion. But I just think he's a misogynist. And so, you know, when the Diddy thing broke. Right. And everyone's talking about like this idea that Leo might be exposed to Diddy's humiliations and all those other stuff.

And I'm like, hmm, I don't know about that, dude. Because Leo's been rolling with this shit since before Diddy. So I, you know, maybe it's the other way around. I don't know. Could have been Leo gone in, dude. Well, I mean, who knows what compromising tapes they have on him. Yeah, I mean, I imagine that somebody knows, but we don't, you know. Book Club on Monday.

Gym on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too. Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit specksavers.cavers.ca to book your next eye exam, eye exams provided by independent

optometrists. You know, we know that Leo was at the white parties. So just when people are putting that connection together, my mind, I'm thinking, well, I'll say this about it, right? Like, maybe he had nothing to do with it, but it would be very easy to believe for me that he would have participated as a viewer in a minute. He was an exhibitionist, and he was also somebody who, like, literally would, you know, put somebody through humiliation for his own, for his own, you know, amusement. So at what point did you guys, did you get to a point where you sued? Well, you know, we wanted to, well, I wouldn't say we,

but David Stumman, who was the producer who owned the copyright at the time, he wanted to sue right away, but no lawyer would take our case and we had no money. So it wasn't until after Titanic hit. And all the lawyers that he visited and tried to convince the take on the case, those lawyers started calling him now. And then we ended up landing Bert Fields, who was at the time, the biggest and most feared litigator in all of Hollywood, representing guys like Michael Jackson. He thought Burke Fields said he was going to be the big power house that he was.

He was going to flex his muscles. Leo was going to go, oh, my God, I can't do this. And then we were going to end up in a settlement that would, you know, behoove us all or benefit of us all. And that didn't happen. Leo dug in instead. And that was a bit of a shock for Bert Fields. Leo dug in instead. debt. He did not settle. Not right away. It took years. Right.

Yeah, I know. It's, you know, it's so funny. Like, I filed suit. I filed suit against an actor, right? Against who? Did you sue an actor? No, I sued, uh, Warner Brothers and, uh, shoot. Um, um, um, uh, Ephraim Devoroli. which is a guy I wrote a I wrote his memoir. Ephraim Deverelli is played by Jonah Hill in the movie Wardogues. Oh, okay. So I sued I sued over basically over over the movie and I sued a incarcerated entertainment, which is the production company that Deverelli had started.

So I sued them and it's so funny to me because, you know, the amount of money that they spent on litigating is 10 times. what I would have settled for. It's like I was incarcerated when I started. Had they come to me and said, listen, we'll give you whatever, you know, $20,000, $30,000 right now to go away. I would have been thrilled. Yeah. But instead, everybody dug in.

It's like you're going to spend half a million dollars fighting over what could have gone away for a few thousand dollars. You know, just stupidity. So any, you know, these people that are like, oh, it's a, they'll, it's a, they'll, it's the nuisance lawsuit, you know, these, you know, Hollywood will settle because they don't want to spend the legal fees. Well, you're wrong about that. They'll blow half a million dollars before they'll pay you a penny. They don't fucking care of money. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Leo spent a million on our lawsuit. He dug in for a mill and we had it. We got, we went through two lawyers because our

lawyer, Bert Fields is a big powerful guy when Leo didn't bend. He kicked us to the curb like a jerk off. And so we had, we lost the biggest lawyer in the world and we were like empty pockets and no, and no lawyer in the middle of, in the middle of a lawsuit with the biggest star in the world. So we ended up landing another attorney that eventually led to a settlement conference and, and where a settlement, a so-called settlement took place. But it was all under duress and they don't care about money. And in the end, you know, we ended up putting the bill, the movie ended up putting the bill anyway. because you know part of the settlement was that we were going to pay all the legal fees so we ended up you know it's a long terrible story about how the the they never stopped destroying this movie dude they never stopped and it was all out of spite it was all to destroy me and r d rob it was it became this like spite this evil horrible spite and it worked bro my life has been shit for a long time dude like you know it was very difficult for me In fact, it wasn't until I wrote this book that I realized I could do anything else and love it. You know, like, I wrote this book and I was like, oh, shit, I love this.

I'd never written a book before. I'd written short stories, poems, lyrics, and screenplays, but never a book. And it just opened up a world of creativity that I'd never experienced before. So prior to the book, film was all I ever wanted. Film was all I ever knew, experimental film especially, which is the hardest film to make. because there's no real promise of box office at the end of it. So you've got to kind of be beloved. And to be beloved, you've got to have a really special movie come out.

That was Don's Plum. Don's Plum was going to open up that for me, for sure, because it was not just an awesome experiment that went right, but it was also the fact that the process that we began was a process that would have been, that was exciting for so many filmmakers experimentally. Like, it really was something special, like that we could grow with. It was accidental. Do you know who Jackson Pollock is?

Yeah, for it. Very famous painter. And you know that whole, like, he spilled the paint. Yeah. We spilled the paint. That's what happened. You know, we spilled the paint. And we were like, holy fuck, this works.

We can do something with this. And so the masterpiece was supposed to come later, right? This was just our beginning. But it was a special beginning that had, you know, you know, really special performances. and, you know, like I said, just an experiment that just went totally right. So, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, for, for decades and that it became so personal and so horrible. You know, I did this New York post documentary.

The reason I wrote the book is because I did a, uh, uh, your post documentary. And at the end of it, Leo, uh, through his publicist, made a statement. And then the statement called me a liar. And he said that I was using this story to gain publicity and to unlawfully earn money from Don's Plum, the movie I wrote and produced. And my God, dude, I got so mad. Like, I was just like, holy fuck. And I didn't know. How does a little me who screens through a rooftops and barely gets heard battle a guy like that who now just disparaged me in a way that's irreparably harmful?

I mean, people who listen to him and believe him, right? I got emails right away. Why do you respond to the fact that you're a liar and that you're stealing from Donald's Plum? So I was like, well, fuck, I've got to answer this, man. And it took me a year to figure it out. My inclination was to write a book. I didn't have the courage, man.

And then the pandemic hit. And I was like, man, I just got to suck it up and I got to do it. And so this book, and I'll hold it up just because I think it's kind of neat because it's, he said, Dale's a liar. And I said, that's my response. do you what's the what's the um on the cover what's the cover? Oh the cover is me wearing my mirror max hat because they were going to buy my damn movie but it's just a picture for me in the 90s chilling out about to about to be somebody people new in the industry just about to make

it man this is a beautiful time bro like I did it like I don't know you know uh for anyone out there who's it and I gotta tell you man I don't regret the I don't regret that it If I were to go back, I wouldn't, I wouldn't not make the answer. Do you know what I mean? I would obviously hope that it would turn out differently in terms of the way the dispute went down. But now I don't regret any of the pursuit. But anyway, after Leo called me a liar on that New York Post documentary, and by the way, like this whole thing got reignited in 2014, I had laid completely quiet

about everything. I just shut up and I wanted it to go away, right? And so I did my time. I did my time, right? I went and did the sales jobs and I lived a mundane life. and I let my dreams stay in the shadows, and I waited for the dust to settle, and I knew that it would take a long time. And I did 10, 13, 14 years of silence on it, right? I did nothing. And then I went back to Hollywood. I left my wife because that shit just ended. And I, at that

point, I was like, it's time to go back. And I went back at four years old, 2010 for, you know, for a second round, if you will. And I reunited with Artie Robb. And I had been working on this thing for years, the story that I love so much fiction. And I met this girl who's my wife now and who saved my life. I met her and she found out of all this and she was like, I want to read your stuff. And so I showed her the story and she fell in love with it. It's kind of a weird psychological, almost supernatural love story, but it's like, it's cool. It's like this really highly, it'll be controversial if I ever get it made, but it would be very spiritually interesting. And anyway, she just loved it

And she was like, I know this producer And he was like a giant in the business, like huge Like bigger than Leo in my opinion Like bigger than Leo. She's like, I know him. Let me just let me just see what he thinks. And I was like, okay, fuck yeah. I think quite like that as the book will feel,

but more or less some in substance. And so he loved it. He loved it. He was like, this is a great idea. And this guy who's now this multi-billion dollar producer, he got his roots doing the very same thing I did, which was just, you know, slugging it out with 100,000 bucks, 200,000 bucks, try to make something beautiful happen.

So he loved this. And this movie would have taken a mill, mill and a half, like not a lot of money to make. He was in. And then he found out who I was, 2014 at this point, 2014, almost 20 full years after I made that movie, he was like, who's that? Oh, he made dad. I can't work with him. And he canceled me there on the spot, 44 years old, man.

You know, I shot Don's Pummer. I was 25, you know? And that's when I was like, fuck, I got to do something. Because at that point, this was the first time where I had a concrete thought, maybe it's time to check out. Maybe it's time to get out of this thing. Yeah. Maybe it's just a life gone bad, you know?

Just a bruise that's spread into a rotten core, you know? You mean Hollywood or you mean life? Life, buddy. Life. Yeah. I already checked out of Hollywood. I moved to Jersey. Yeah.

I got away. I was out of sight, out of mind. Back. and you said you left you came back and the second time you came back you said yeah that's it I mean these guys are after this after that after that producer was like

because of 1995 right and Don's plum I was just like man I got this beautiful girl but man and it was like such a serious moment like it wasn't like a fuck my life ah he was like I gotta go I gotta go so like you know fighting through that was really difficult

for me like I was like fuck but it's wanted out so bad so bad. And then I, so I turned to my girl and I was like, man, I got to fight back where I got to go. Like, I didn't say it to her, but I think she might have felt it. Like, I was just like, I got to fight back. I got to do something. I can't just let this continue. I can't let this reputation follow me around that isn't just. And I can't allow these people to take so much of me and to take so much of what I've done and everything. I'm proud of my work. You know, I don't care if you eat my movie. I don't care. I didn't make it for you. I want you to love it,

but I don't care. I love it. And that matter. So I said I got to do something And I was like I think I'm going to write an open letter to DiCaprio This is 2014 And she was like at first she was like It's a big deal She's like yeah She's like it could end up consuming us

I'm not like yeah But I got to do something man And because I just My life is slipping away from me And she did it man She was like okay So I wrote the letter in 2014 And it blew up in 2016

After the Revenant no nobody paid any attention to do it was the most embarrassing thing ever i was like in my head right i got the biggest star in the world i'm going to write this open letter everyone's going to care fucking nobody cared buddy like it's like oh my god wrote the open letter in 2014 and uh it was then that i made the commitment that i was going to fight lean arty de cabrio hell bro that guy's got in my piss and punch you know but i was like man i'm just going to fight this guy from where i am and i've been doing it for 10 years and uh the book is really like that sort of the pinnacle of it all. I think it's really probably my,

will be my most sympathetic statement about it. And I'm really proud of the book. And I'm proud of a proud of standing up against such a fucking shitty human being. You know, and just to the fans of Leonard DeCampereo, I loved his work. I did. And I believe in a separation between the art and the man, you know, the art and the artist. I have Eric Clapton records on my shelf. I think very little of that, man. I have Van Worson records on my shelf. That guy's fucking cuckier than anybody I've ever known. Do I put those records on my placard?

You're right, I do because I love the music, man. So, you know, this isn't about, I don't want Leonardo DiCaprio canceled. And I don't want any of his movies not to be seen. I want my movie to be seen. And I want all the people that worked on those movies to be rewarded, because that's a lot about what I'm talking about, Matt, is like, these guys didn't just take my movie away. I'm here today representing it as my movie, 150 people work on that movie.

You know, we and I, DiCaprio was one of eight ensemble cast members, seven of which, before Toby hit, could have used the work. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. He was the only one who was doing well. Everybody, and he was there as a favor to us all, which is, I guess, bitter irony of it. That's my story, buddy. I'm sticking to it.

Well, um, how do you feel? about this interview. Is there anything else you want to talk about or anything else you want to add? Yeah, I mean, here's what the only thing I would like to, I'd like to definitely let your viewers know is that they can watch the movie and read the book for free. It's a fascinating story. And it's told in artful and entertaining way. You know, this is this is, this is obviously very important to me. I spent 10 years working on on getting it out. And it's because there's a, there's a, you know, there's, there's a lot more inside of, of me to come. And, and I'm putting So I put my heart and soul on this book, and you can get it for free on Kindle Unlimited right now.

You can also buy the paperback there or the ebook, if that's your preference. But you can read it for nothing, and you can also watch the film for free at freedonespalm.com. I do send out HD links. I send them out because they've, Leo and Toby, have taken down the HD copies of the film. They let the really bad copies go, but they don't. They stop the good copies, so I only set up private links for now. But no, I don't really have much else to say except thanks so much, man. I hope the story was entertaining for you guys.

And, yeah, I hope people, you know, learn a little bit from it. So how do people get the links? Yeah, you email or just go to Freedonsplom.com, just put in your email address. You'll get an automatic kickback for the link. If you want to reach out to me personally, you can just hit, yeah, there's an email address there. If you want to chat with me, you're welcome to do that. But yeah, that's it. That's how you get that link.

And then you can go to Amazon to get the book, or really, I think any online retailer probably is carrying it in paperback. But for ebook or for Kindle Unlimited, that's exclusively on Amazon. Just look up too real. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do be a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell.

So you get notified of videos like this. Share the video. Leave me a comment. And if you check in the description box, I'm going to leave all of Dale's links. Please consider joining Colby and I's Patreon. It's $10 a month. We put Patreon exclusive stuff on the Patreon platform without any censorship or anything like that. And there's also a lot of exclusive stuff that's behind the scenes, stuff that we talk about prior to doing the interviews.

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