Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - International Steroid Dealer | Joey "The Needle"

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

International Steroid Dealer | Joey "The Needle"

For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. But anyway, he stuck them in here like this, put cotton in them, glue them, send them to the mail, and it would get through custom. I had to sign for it, got through custom. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Joey Sales. Joey wrote a book called Joey The Needle.

Here it is. And he's got a story about he was importing massive amounts of steroids from Ukraine. From Ukraine of all places. So there's a whole Ukraine angle. Yeah. Anyway, he went to prison. A few times. Yeah.

He wrote the book. Slow learner. Super interesting story. And so check it out. There's three parts of the book. I was involved with a bunch of Ukrainian smuggling steroids in the country. Right. There's a subplot to it that I was, your MMA freaks out there might know I was

a cornerman for Bobby Hoffman from 1998, 1999, and for all you MMA junkies out there at one time he was the most feared heavyweight in the world. He was the first guy to knock out Alistair over him and his first guy to knock out and beat Rico Rodriguez. And the third subplot to it is that even though I was in and out of jail a lot, I kept a real close relationship with my daughter. And she grew up to have a successful life, successful now, Hollywood, good looks, so everything. This book, my life is a happily ever after story.

Okay. Well, so when did this, well, first of all, let's start it began. Like, where were you born? Born in the Centerville, Iowa, USA. It's like the third poorest county in Iowa, real close to Missouri. Well, my town, my county border in Missouri, my town was like 12 miles from the Missouri border. Grew up in a normal family. My dad had a good paying union job.

My mom was a stay-home Irish mom. Went to Mass every Sunday. I have a younger brother, younger sister. I had a good childhood. The only thing my big gripe about my childhood would be that me and my brother were severe asthmatics. It's the only thing that I would, looking back, that I wish I could erase, because we were both severe asthmics and didn't get on medication until we were like 10 to 12 years old, so it was pretty rough growing up to that angle.

Did you ever get in trouble when you were younger? No, I was an athlete. No, I was, no, my mom, we went to church every Sunday. No, I never got detention in high school. I was an athlete, a pretty good athlete. I was a good sprinter, was an all-state baseball player. I was a state runner up in a 100-meter dash. I was a decent football player.

No, I was a straight-nar old kid. My junior in high school, we threw painting a public swimming pool. Got a little probation after that, but no, no, no real trouble. Okay. Well, why did you throw painting the swimming pool? Why wouldn't you? I don't know. It was there.

My buddy worked at the school. He found it back. He stole a can of oil-based paint on his last day at work. We decided it would look good in the middle of public pool. You know what I mean? um so uh did you so when like how did how did you end up were you a bodybuilder were you working no i uh i was a skinny kid growing up i like i graduated i weighed like a buck 45 i was always uh how tall are you well i've shrunk a little my prime was 510 okay so and you were a buck 45 or buck

oh when i graduated yeah oh yeah wow i run like the wind though pal i's super skinny yeah i was I really was. And I, you know, I really didn't lift weights until I got to college. And I ran track a couple years in college. I started taking roids in between the two times I ran track in college. You put a little weight. And that's how I kind of got in a royd business. So, I mean, how did that happen?

Like, you knew a guy who knew a guy? Yeah, back in the 80s, it wasn't hard to get. Right. It wasn't hard to get. Yeah, it was real easy. diana ball that's what i and and i think that's what everybody starts on right yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't i wouldn't ever that's not a good track steroid so i never took it when i was running track winstraw is a good track steroid anabar's a good track steroid even human growth hormone

is good at uh track uh track uh but i never took it while i was running i took it in between seasons you know that makes sense yeah yeah and uh see it wasn't a controlled substance until uh 1988 when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis in a hundred-meter dags the federal government threw a fit over it and that's how come steroids become a controlled substance you know that no I didn't know I just assume they were always no no no they wouldn't a control and the controlled steroid act of 1990 it become a Schedule 3 controlled substance the DEA didn't want to even make a controlled substance they were against it but the Congress made them make it a controlled substance and and after After it become a controlled substance, there's a lot of fake shit on the market. Right. I mean, junk coming in from Mexico, you had your fake, you had your counterfeit, you had your good counterfeit, and you had your bad counterfeit. Like if I give you a bottle of diatobal, it might be nothing in it.

Or if you give you a bottle of diatabal, it might be something else in it. Or it could be the diana ball. Does it make sense? It was good counterfeit, fake, and bad fake. right and so i knew that uh if i get access to top the line stuff you know i can name my price if people are tired of fuck with a junk shit you know what year is this when you started i was started in 1990 when i started writing fake scripts if you read the book i wrote fake scripts right and i come out of retirement i rode your fake script there right you that and i mean you got artwork

on the wall right there's the fucking rembrand you know what i mean you ought to stick that right on the right, excuse me, right there, you know what I mean, right there. I wrote, uh, if you look that up, I wrote one of your fake aliases on there, you know. Yeah, Charles White. Charles White. I figure you got that. Michael White, but anyway, yeah. I thought it said Charles White.

No, I got a Michael's White. Michael White. There was, I had a, I think that, I think the guy, the cop that I listened to your, he said you used the Charles White. No, it was, it was a, um, I had a Michael, Michael White. We had a Lee Black. Well, I'm sure you can get one of these trials like, you know what I'm not. I figure you got an ID like that hid with the money, the government can't find, you know what I mean? So you're just, you're just getting. So I'm going to the pharmacy and get the shit. Right.

So you don't need a source. Your source is the pharmacy. Wow. Yeah. And I knew how to get it out of veterinary clinics too. Okay. And like I said, I wrote you that. And if you wanted to go cash that in, instead of my DA and I'm going to wrote my federal

inmate number, I don't think that would be a row. issue with that you know what I mean and if you go cash that in you want to dress down you don't want to go and look like Charles Atlas you know you want to go in like you know sweats oh no have some depends in your hand you know and buy them five or six of years

and I can be shit in your pants anyway you start stalking up on them you know what I mean but uh no that's that's how I got into it right so what were you selling them for like what what's the what do you buying them for and what are you selling them for? Probably, probably buy it for $35 a bottle,

and it was good stuff. You could sell it for $100, $125 a bottle, you know. With the Winstraw, he's getting out of the pharmacy. Same thing. It was a little more expensive. Right. You know what Winstrawl is, right. Yeah, yeah.

That's what Ben Johnson was caught using. Okay. But, and so I made a, not a great living doing it, but it was supplemental income type stuff. It makes sense. Right. Well, what were you doing for a living? I'd work in factory and stuff off.

I got laid off in a factory, bounced around. It's kind of nomadden. And how I would market this. I went to weightlifter. I was a pretty good weightlifter one time. I went to bench press meets. I could bench press.

I weighed 165 and do like 325. So I meet people through there. Plus people know you got good stuff. Word of mouth. Yeah, yeah. You know how that. And people knew I wouldn't fuck them over. I have a pretty good.

people don't know I don't bullshit them you know well you're also getting it straight out of the pharmacy yeah but that's that's a pretty rare thing that's right that's pretty hard if I come up to you and say hey you know I got stuff out of pharmacy people say no you you know you don't have that connection right you know what I'm saying it's a kind of a hard thing but then in 1995 let's see here there's a pro steroid bodybuilding magazine there's a guy from uh you Ukraine who put in a letter to the editor basically wanting to meet pen pals

and I read between the lines, wrote him a letter because I knew what he had and I got hooked up some Ukrainians. We were smuggling in the country. It started out in nickel and dime operation and then it got bigger and bigger. First we smuggled and then with little toys like this

and he'd stick him in. The little Russian dolls. But he couldn't paint like this. They were, they were, Big eggs, and he had generic painting. This was Boris Yeltsin. Right.

I'm pulling his fucking head off, you know. Anyway, he stuck him in here like this, put cotton in him, glue him, sent him to the mail, and it would get through customs. I had to sign for it, got through customs. The only problem is, like I said, he wasn't a good painter. He was signing, he was sending big generic eggs. He sent a bunch of them, and they customs over there caught on to him. Right.

And so this in 1995. He wrote me a letter saying, hey, they're on to me. Nothing's going to happen to me. They just think it's stupid that I was doing this. And he'll owe me some money. I said, well, don't worry about it. Get me, you know, whenever you can, figure a way to get it and send it to me. And we figured out another way to get it in.

Sound good? Yeah. I mean, I mean, yeah, so you're getting it, so you're bringing in, so how much more stuff, how much stuff are you bringing in at a time? It's nickel and dine. See, I figured that this is all going through snail mail. Right, right. We're writing each other.

This guy, I figured he was rich, but he was poor, you know, because it's just the fall of the Soviet Union, right? Yeah. And I was right, we was going to everything by snail mail at first. And then he figured out how to, we was writing, he had letters. He'd mail it to me in a letter. And that's when I had my first,

problem in 1996 the shit was falling out of the packages yeah it was it was getting crushed right he had a lot of people in Europe sticking their fingers in there it postal thieves thinking it was money comes right and and the powders pill were getting crushed and falling out of the envelope and that's when I had my first problem they uh postal inspectors come in on me I basically got slapped on the wrist what even they just showed up at your work knock on your door they kicking the door they no i was uh driving around my small town and i seen the cops behind me and uh i seen him stop me and i seen a post inspector jump out of a van and he had like five or six packages that he mailed me that he know he mailed me they told me how to come

down the police station if i had to do it over again i wouldn't and went to the police station i went to a lawyer right i went to the police station i told him i was hooked up with some doctor made up a story. It told him it was Clem Buterol. And nothing happened for like three years that they finally, they finally give me like a misdemeanor, slap on her wrist.

Just before the statute of limitations runs out, they file, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they knew I wasn't going to quit. I mean, I don't know, maybe. So in 19. So the whole time you're on, you're waiting, are you still bringing it? I took a month off.

We took about three or four months off. And then you just start up again. I wrote him and said, hey, it's like 96. 97, he gets a telephone. So we're talking to each other on telephone now. And things are getting it. You know, we figured out how to get it through the mail.

He'd become a beggar, smuggler, through the mail. You know how to wrap it so it wouldn't be seen by customs, postal inspectors. And we started that. And I expanded my business by, I put my, I put an underground newsletter. I started getting customers all of the United States. And they were kind of suspect, you know,

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Shop now at IKEA.ca. I mean, what I was getting was pharmaceutical great stuff. Right. You know what I mean? This stuff today is like made in labs. You know, clandestine labs. They're getting their shit in from China, the powders of China, and they're making it in these clandestine labs, right?

But this was pharmaceutical grade stuff. This was made by pharmaceutical-grade companies out of Poland, Turkey. I mean, it was great. I was even getting a human growth, real human growth hormone, not synthetic, human growth hormone. From, uh, Russian cadavers is made out of that pituitary glands of dead Russians. That sounds horrible, bro. It worked. It was good stuff. I sold a lot of it. Um, he once got plastic surgery because he didn't like the photo on his wanted poster.

His legend precedes him. The way indictments precede arrests. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. Okay, so, well, I mean, over there, like, it was chaos over there after the fall of the Soviet Union, right?

Like, I mean, Ukraine breaks off, and all these former Soviet bloc countries are, they're all in just, you know, they're going through hell. So, you know, everybody was just struggling to make money. So it's not like they're chasing this stuff down. So, I mean, I don't, I don't know. But he said the postal inspectors didn't, weren't hard on, they just thought it was stupid. Yeah. Well, they got real criminals to chase like that. You know what I'm saying?

Like it's illegal, but, you know, you're talking about, they got gangsters and murders and all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah. Over here, they take it more serious. Yeah. So in 1999, he figures out how to get it. in on airplanes and I don't pay any from now on all the stuff I gets on the spot I mean he was I mean everything I get gets to me and I pay later okay because of the one issue before yeah anyway and and and he wrote me a letter when we got when he got busted I wrote him a letter and

said hey don't worry about you getting caught just send me when you can do you can and he wrote me back said well I got somebody over here I can trust now you know somebody not crying about their fucking money back you know right So we've become a good friend. We got a phone. We call each other. We talk about, you know, politics, sports, anything. You know, we've become pretty good friends.

Right. And I told him someday I'm coming over to see him. He's like, all right, fuck it, I don't care. And so in 1999, we were getting in on airplanes. They figured a way out of being on customs, and we was getting boatloads of shit in. And since I was the guy they could trust, it was all coming to me. I mean, we're talking, you know, 5,000,

10,000s of Russian diana bowl and original packaging. We're talking top of the line stuff. And I didn't have the market to sell it. I did a lot of reshipping for them. You know what I'm saying? I didn't, I live in a small town. I really didn't live close to a gym, which I don't know.

I don't know if I don't want to deal with a bunch of guys doubt what I had anyway. You know, like I say, I'm a small town guy. Where's he getting this stuff? Right. That makes sense. So you're reshipping it, so? Reshipping it for them. Plus, I make some money, too.

you know right and uh in 19 and and i'm traveling all the world with bobby hoffman in 1998 not over the united states of bobby hoffman 1998 uh a friend of mine besides he's going to try ultimate fighting and lo and behold he becomes one of the most feared heavyweights in a world you know he i don't know if you're in ultimate fighting no how'd you meet him though oh he was even my high he was two years younger me in high school and the reason he wanted me his corner he knew i get shit you know and i'm not going to what we were that we're taking and i'm not throwing a guy under the bus it's well known that he had substance abuse problems you know i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not he was a he was a hell of football player the guy should

have he could have played an NFL football he could wrestle he was big strong and tough and i kind of doubted when he got into it i figured ah fuck uh he but he he he becomes one of the most feared heavy weights in the world he beat some very good guys i mean i was in his corner of the night in September 1999 that he knocked out a guy named Rico Rodriguez. That guy went on to be UFC champ. Yeah, I was going to say, I've heard that name.

And I don't know anything about it. Alistair Overreem, that's a bigger name. I wasn't with him. That was in Japan. And it looks like he killed Overreem in the ring. It was brutal. And Overreem can't take a punch. That's his big thing. He has a glass jaw. And maybe that had something to do it because, I mean, he really fucked him up.

Man, it was bad. I wasn't there. I was locked up. We'll talk about that later. but I've been locked up a few times. Is it for the same thing, steroids? Oh, yeah, that's the only thing. Yeah. I did two we'll talk about it. I did, yeah.

So I was traveling all the world with him, or the United States with him, you know, selling steroids from, like I said, May 19, 99 to September, 1999. May 1998, September, 999. May, 1998, September. September 1999. We'll get it straight. All right. I'm a little nervous.

Yeah. It's the, I get dates. Like I did, uh, I did a whole series on like my life and going to prison and everything. Like, listen, my dates are off. Some of the things I'm, you know, I miss remember the exact, like, did this happen first or that happened? Like, it's hard to remember. Especially look at 20 years ago. Yeah. If it, the book, the book's in order, everything I'd done, you know, in the exact order. Like I said, we'll be jumping around. And it talks about me. going to prison exactly what happened in my life i'm not i'm not consumed with this you know i've kind of let a lot of this shit go right it's it's not something that i think about every day yeah actually i talked to a few people in ukraine i keep in contact with them i'm more interested in that than

shit that i did 20 you know 30 years ago yeah yeah i understand i mean some people you know some people they're these types of like the crimes they committed or there are certain events in their life that they, you know, they live off of their whole life. Like, like being a high school, you know, you were the high school football, um, uh, jock or something. And they, they, they, they, they go over that in their mind, you know, for the rest of their life. And some people are like, eh, it was something to happen.

I'm just going to move on. Yeah. Yeah, I don't, I'm not consumed with it. Yeah. Like I said, before, I'm, nah, just, I don't think about a lot, try to block a lot of it. Like I said, I'm getting older, you know, it's been 1995. It's been a few days ago, you know. Yeah.

But this is the magazine, oddly enough. See, back in the day, this magazine was a very pro-steroid magazine. Right. It's got like, it tells you how to do droids. I mean, how to find counterfeits in the real shit. I mean, it was anything goes. Then they, I don't know, then he started promoting his own stuff. So what, so you're getting him in, you're traveling all over the world.

And, yeah, I did go to, yeah, and I went to Kiev in, uh, I went to Kiev in August of 1999. I met my buddy. Stayed there a week. I actually stayed in Buccia. Word. Putin just got his tank battalion jammed up his ass here in February. God bless him. Yeah, so what happened when you went over there?

Pick up at the airport. Yeah, he picked me up to the airport. He knew who I had a sign. It said, Joe. I knew. And he said he recognized me. And he took me to his house out in Bochia. And I stayed there a week.

Went downtown Kiev a few times. stayed on independent square. I didn't know it was independent square. They never called it that then. They said, we're going down to the square, you know. Right. Stayed with him a week. And he told me exactly how he's getting in the country, what was going on,

and said, you're going to be our main guy, you know. And I had my first incident in November, Saturday after Thanksgiving, 1999. I had a bunch of shit sent to me in a post office. In Unionville, Missouri, my mom was staying. and they surrounded me. They said there were the, and I wouldn't talk.

So you drove to the post office to get this stuff? Yeah, I drove the car, and they pull up in the cars, get on the ground, the whole thing? No. They were small town cops. They were like that. Yeah.

Oh, listen, every time I've been around, they didn't get me, they didn't get on the ground. No, they were like, they surrounded me because they knew it didn't carry guns. Yeah. They knew, they knew.

But no, they were half-ass respect like that. They were telling me, you know, We think there's suspicion. You've got steroids in the pack. And the package is, I mean, I mean, it's like fucking three big box, four big box. I can barely see over the fucking box of Di Annable. I mean, 40,000 tabs of DiNables.

But I wouldn't talk. And I figured, uh, they laid a heavy bond on me. They laid like a $150,000 bond on me. I fought the search warrant. I fought them. I had a Moses press. I thought they're searching words bullshit. And I lost the motion.

suppressed they were throwing a bunch of time at me and this stuff but i basically did seven months in a county and then i i didn't beat the motion to suppress imagine that and uh i got four months at a shock treatment in western missouri and this is federal state federal or state personal estate first of the state and what helped me here even though i got caught with that all all that shit it was only possession right and then It should have been distribution, like, you know. But in Missouri, possession of steroids is, is a, possession of steroids is a felony. Or in Iowa, possession of steroids is not.

It goes from state to state. And it kind of gets me, it kind of helped me out, only get possession. Because on my Fed charge, if I had another possession of that's tribute, I might have got a career criminal. I got, I got another little charge later on. I had nothing on me, basically, but they got me possession intensive. tribute who got caught four times that's a slow learner you know right shit happened you know what so what's the uh so so you get out got out well what happened to your buddy like like did did he he realized you were arrested like he got oh my i got when my i had family come to jail

i got word out he got word out to him and i told him what he did wrong on the fucking package he wrote a bad fake address on it and they corrected that i got out And I moved to a town and we just started up business again until 9-11. 9-11, I was a pretty big guy until after 9-11. Right. After 9-11, I mean, we couldn't get shit on airplanes anymore, you know. Okay. And the reason the feds come on me in on me in 2010,

I was laundered money for them. I was laid off, needed some extra cash. And if you wanted some stuff from my buddy to Ukraine, you'd send them money to me. I would tell them through via the email that I got. the money and they would get their stuff the only thing is there's a guy Bitsburgh that's told on us and they were in our emails and uh they come and got me and them guys March St. Patrick's Day 2010 they busted my buddies in Cyprus and come

got me in Centerville Iowa on the same day who was in Cyprus my buddies that the FBI coax them so there's no extradition laws you can't right right so they they convinced them to come they convinced them to go to the to Ukraine because they was going to tell them how to launder their money through credit cards. You mean they convinced them to come from Ukraine to Cyprus? Because they could arrest them in Cyprus. Yes.

Right. Yeah, that happens. Yeah, yeah. Because there's, yeah, there's no extradition law in Ukraine. Yeah, yeah. I know a guy that used to do, he owned a company that did extractions, but like you can't go into Ukraine and arrest a Ukrainian. They said, but it was, it's not difficult to coax these guys to go to an extra.

country where you have extradition and then they grab them there see what what really screwed was really screwed in i should have went back over there i was going to go over in 209 i didn't and they would told me what was going on because i didn't talk these guys on on the phone from 207 on it was all he said no we're going to email you're going to email they bought my computer and shit said all right whatever so and if i would have went over there they would have told me what went on and i would have told them and you can't be doing that because there was a big bus to stairwell I think it was Operation Raw Deal where they went to like Austria

and all these fucking countries had extradition law and even though they had nothing on them conspiracy. They had a big meeting with these guys. The FBI saying hey we're going to teach you out of longer money this way so they got them for your conspiracy they had this big meeting and then they went

to their hotel and arrested him. Makes sense? I just don't understand why they've taken it so seriously like there's real issues out there. He wants Khan Bank of America out of $250,000 using nothing but a fake ID and his charm.

He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank frog. Stay greedy of my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. You know what? It was a big operation. I didn't make any...

I didn't make a lot of money, but I had to have a good time. I showed you my buddy's house. I mean, they were making fucking bank. If you, if you Google up there, their case. Money goes a lot further in Ukraine than it does here. And what's funny is I was in my, okay, so we're kind of jumping around. Like I say, read the book.

But anyway, so they didn't come get me to a year later because they took me down the county jail. I wouldn't talk to the police on a state charge. They kept me to county jail and filed state charges on. me. I wouldn't talk. I didn't talk. So anyway, I got my cousin who's a Fed lawyer and he told me, you know, hey, you know, you're in trouble here, blah, blah, blah. And they, so I had to admit my role. The feds come in, I had to admit my role. I said, I really don't know who the fuck's doing this. You know, it's been since years I've talked about the phone. I have no idea who's over there. I have no idea who you arrested. I don't know. They thought I was a big

guy, which I was not, I was their money launderer, but I really wouldn't make a lot of money. I basically told them what's in the book, what I wrote in a book. And the state charges eventually had to go away because the feds kept the evidence from the state, they wouldn't crawl away to the state. And that state guys wanted to talk to me that day when I had been in my role of the fed, I told them I wouldn't talk to them. It's the best thing I ever did because they had filed state charges on me. Come federal time, I'd have been in a row. trouble you know what I mean right that really added points to my score makes sense right so what the you're saying the feds ended up picking up the charge the state charge got dropped the feds got

dropped or you're saying the state dropped and they got let you go no the state charges got dropped the feds I had that meeting when I had that meeting I had that meeting I had that meeting with the feds when I was in jail that was 2010 they didn't the feds didn't come get me till 211 because my buddies were fighting extradition And if they had got off, so you can get off, you can get off the island, Cyprus. If you get to the northern part of the island, there's no extradition laws. You can get, you can, I was hoping they'd bail out. Jump on a boat and get the fuck out.

Yeah, get to the northern part, get on the boat, get out. See, if they would have got away, they might not come got me. You know what I mean? That the old thing might have went away. Right. And I called my buddy, he got his number. He told me who they got. They got his son.

They got somebody else. He said, he coming over? He said, man, I got, they got my passport. I can't, man. I just can't. I'm not going to fucking Ukraine. You know, I don't speak. He said, all right.

And so they finally come and got me. I had to turn myself into Pittsburgh, May, May of 2.11. I had turned myself in to Pittsburgh, drive to Pittsburgh, turn myself in. He doesn't die down to Pittsburgh is that for the guy that rad on us was from, Pittsburgh. Right. Yeah. So what ended up happening, would you? I got.

You didn't get bonded out? No, I told, no. I could have went home. I played guilty. I said I want to start my time now because I'm tired of fucking waiting, you know. I had a good lawyer. My lawyer was Mike Kieldy out of St. Charles, Missouri.

He's my cousin. He did a good, it helps that family. Yeah, yeah. I got two fed lawyer cousins. If I got some shit, you go down now, which I don't do anything now, if I had anything going wrong, I got two fed lawyer cousins,

he got my back. Get that Irish blood in it, you know. You're Irish, we're going to take care of you. How much time did you get? I only got 20 months. And my buddy's got three years, Three and a half years. Anyway.

From, okay, so they did extract. Oh, fuck, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Absolutely. And they got three years.

Three years, ten months. And we had a switch of district attorneys, or what do they call it, not district attorneys. You know, what are they called? Assistant U.S. attorneys. Yes, sir.

But anyway, we had a switch of U.S. attorneys. The lady was going to let them buy themselves out. The lady was going to let them pay a million dollars and go home. But we got to change. The guy was a dickhead. And I know this because I was in Ohio with these guys. We got moved to Youngstown, Ohio, and I was in Youngtown with these guys.

They said, yeah, the lady's going to let's buy us out and go home. A million dollars go home. But the guy wanted to hang us, and they made him do three years, ten months. You know what, though, he made it in favor because that million dollars probably coming in pretty handy right now. Oh, I'm sure. You know, I mean, because they're, you know, they're. And they got more time because they just had more evidence against them. that's really yeah well i mean they were the kingpins right he king pinned them and they i'm sure they

didn't appreciate them fighting extradition and yeah yeah they they really didn't want me you know my cousin did a good job they were she was pretty lenient the guy they come in and give them the time he was wanting to fucking hang me the judge wouldn't go along with it you know he you know he you know he he did what he did he admitted his role you know you know and the the guy they brought in the other attorney he said he didn't cooperate you know he didn't give us any information on anybody you know he just admitted his role and that shouldn't be that shouldn't count for anything it should count for yeah i was going to say it did it did at the very least it it counts towards your you know at least one or two points yeah for taking in your role and turn yourself yeah yeah yeah yeah but it's all

trial i played within you know a reasonable amount of time yeah you know and they shouldn't you know and then they of course they should roll the charges to get you together too because I didn't have to go to trial you didn't have to yeah so I couldn't know I couldn't know there's something that says you have to cooperate in order to get the benefit of pleading guilty yeah because I didn't really know what's going on they were like because they were I went to state court and I was telling my charges they were announcing these two or three Ukrainian names they I know who the fuck they were you know I didn't I couldn't there was one guy I never met they

were arrested I never I never didn't really never met him I was over there I know the fuck he was right the guy they they pinned everything oh i didn't know him but they didn't get the kingpin that's what they didn't get him they lied they said they got the king pin they didn't get the king pin so they got well listen they'll anybody they'll they'll they'll they'll switch the king pin believe me they didn't get the king pin right well i'm saying they'll i'm saying they'll if you're the top dog out of five guys you may not be the top guy in the operation they'll say this is the king pin and then the next guy that comes up they'll say he's the king pin and that jes the kingpin and that just to stick you every single time.

You know, they make everybody sound like a monster. The poor guy that got, he had nothing to do with it. He was just kind of a chauffeur driver. He looked like a stereotypical Ukrainian and Russian. They kingpinned him is what it is. And I told him, even though he didn't do it, I said, well, they could have got a young conspiracy. He didn't speak English.

And my buddy, and he knew, yeah, you mentioned it like that. They're going to get young the conspiracy. So they did their time. they got out yeah i'm a time i've i know they're alive that's all i know i communicate with the guy over there and he told me yeah your buddies are alive and that's all i know i don't have any communication with them probably living under the grid i don't know well probably well how old are they now are these guys the guy you showed me the one picture of the guy yeah the guy right now he's five or six years older than me oh wow so he's 60s i was going to say so he's probably not

fighting in the ukrainian no his sons might be yeah had two sons. Yeah, yeah. The guy I talked to, he's older, he's not fighting in. I met some people over there that I don't know if they're fighting in or not. You know, you kind of wonder what's going on. Yeah. And I email or I message a guy a lot, but lately I kept messaging because there's a lot of power

being cut off over there and shit. One of the guy's got a generator, you know, a generator comes off. He'll check in with me, let me know what's going on. I kind of get some of the stuff before the Western media gets it. It was kind of interesting. You know, some stories about what's going. on over there that's pretty cool yeah it's uh it's funny because i i watch stuff it's like almost almost every morning i bet you five days a week i listen to this this radio station not radio station it's like

it's a youtube it's a youtube channel that talks about it gives you the updates on the war and i'm pretty sure it's it's probably run out of ukraine or someone in eastern europe yeah um but so every day i i hear you know sometimes nothing's happening but so i kind of keep up with it and kershaw i think they're doing pretty good in kershawr i think it's amazing that i think it's amazing that they're getting the shit kicked out of them by they're motivated that's one thing about ukraine is they're not scared of russia and that's what i got that impression on over there we're not we're not scared of the motherfucker well you know i think just you know that aside in general it is always difficult to invade a country because the inhabitants are always going to fight

harder you know for their country I was born here I was raised here it's got to be hard for the Russians fuck their brothers yeah well and they don't want to be there yeah and uh see when I was over in Ukraine I mean they they said from day one we want to be part of Europe we want to be part of the European Union

I got that from everybody over there yeah we don't we don't want nothing to do with Moscow you know we want to be our own independent country where Ukraine is not Russian well you know the Russians after the fall you know they They had a chance to become, to really kind of, you know, become a part of Europe.

And then they just went with the oligarchy or the oligarchs. And then they took over everything and it just become run by the mob. You know, it's so they could have, they had a great opportunity and they just squandered it. Yeah. You know, so. And then, of course, you know, Putin's invading all these countries and the Russians. The Russians are like, let's just want to live their lives. Yeah, no shit.

Like it's this guy's, oh, I want to rebuild the old Soviet. union and it's like that's your deal bro like i just want to pay my bills and raise my kids he so he thinks he's peter the great i mean he's yeah he's yeah he's out he's gonna end up get himself you know killed or something i don't know what's gonna happen i follow it closely we know the problem is and i've watched a bunch of stuff like on you know unfortunately everything all my knowledge comes from you do um so but you know the problem is like he's not every you know you think oh why does the guy's filthy rich probably the richest man in the world why doesn't he just retire because truth is if he retires whoever gets in there there's a good chance they kill him yeah you know or

he ends up in prison because you don't want this guy out there with his power base what if he takes over again so our best bet is to take power and then say oh my gosh he's been stealing from from us the whole time arrest him throw him in prison or have him executed like there's not really anywhere he can go so he doesn't have a lot of options when people are like well why didn't he just pull back because he'll probably he'll probably be overthrown. Why doesn't he just retire or go to in the country who's going to take him?

Yeah, no shit. No shit. It's a mess over there. I feel sorry for those people. They're good people over there. I mean, you know, they're just like even like Korean and buddies, they were good people. They were trying to make a fucking buck. You know what I mean? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's sad. So what do you do? What do you do now?

I got a pretty good job. I live in Central Iowa. I got a pretty good job. I worked what 50 hours a week I live in a real laid back town I go gamble at the horse track a lot at Perry Meadows and my daughter

she lives in Missouri I still keep in contact with her so everything everything's all right everything turned out all right right she just got married you said got married got married saw a picture of her beautiful girl

yep yep so everything's good man okay written the book I told you you got to you got you should do an audio you know i even have somebody that will do the audio version for you if like he'll read it i don't know yeah you know i kind of like we talk you know if you got to be connected sell a book you know what i mean i know it's it's a it's a lot of paul like i would say if i was banging one of those big fat ass cardassian girls this book would be a best seller or their hairy ass stepdaddy bruce you know what i mean i think yeah i think

it's a lot of politics in it like i said about this book's ever been as good is the orange is a new black or you got guys like bill o'reilly selling killing the mob me it just bugs me and what the fucks he know about the fucking mom well i mean he's got he's got he's got a he's got a he's got a publisher they they have a i get it you know you know what i'm saying it's like here's the problem the problem is that you ever watched american idol yeah like okay so like the top 10 20 people that are on it they're all amazing every one of them should be a superstar every one of them how come only one wins and usually you don't ever hear about that person now you might hear out of 10 seasons you might hear of two of the people that actually won maybe somebody three people down that got cut might get famous but most of those people never hear about because the truth is that if it's a combination of luck and knowing the right people that gets you famous how many movies have you seen and halfway through the movie you thought how the fuck did this get made yeah like this is a horrible movie. And then I know of other

stories that you're like, oh, this has got to be a movie. You never hear about it again. Yeah. It's just the luck of the draw. That's the lottery. It is. Right. And that's why, like, with me, I'm just, I just keep throwing stuff against the wall. Like, eventually something will stick. And if it doesn't stick, I'm okay with that because

I like what I'm doing and I'm happy and I'm not in prison. Yeah. Because you know, look, you know, you get out of prison and it's like the worst day out here, you've heard this. The worst day out here is better than the best day in prison. I hated halfway house more than I hated prison. Oh no, halfway house was the worst. It was the worst. The thing about it is with me

I was only halfway house two months and the feds paid for like three months. So I didn't have no bills or anything and I pretended like I'd go look for a job, walking downtown in town while I'll go to the bus day, walk around. They'd get on me to look for a job. No, my fucking job. I'm only going to be here two months. Why would I look for a job? I'm not going to lie. These people say, I'm not going to be I'm not sticking around here, you know.

Yeah, halfway house. I hate it halfway. Yeah, all pedophiles, that fucking way. Well, they're also horrible because, you know, they're on you so much. Like, they're all, at least the nice thing about jail. I had a counselor, wasn't. The nice thing about jail or prison, you could go weeks or months without ever talking to a guard. Yeah. It's not like that at the halfway house.

They're all over you. That wouldn't like that. Even my counselor wasn't on me. It wasn't that. It was small. I don't know, bro. I was in Tampa. It was, we're getting counted three, four times a day.

We're getting yelled. And if you didn't have a job, you had to clean. Like, it's like I'm wiping down the same table three times a day. Luckily, I got a job right away. But there were, there was, there was major issues in that, the halfway house at Tampa. See, I got to disagree. There were some days in prison where it was bad. I got to play softball again.

No. And I had good days. I'm just saying you'd rather be out. Oh, you'd rather be out. But it, it's, in the food out here is great. You didn't like your raw chicken on Tuesday. No, it was, no. Medium rare.

fucking chicken and we talked about that like on the way here like there were some days where where there were some meals there was like wow this is good yeah this is good most of them weren't but they were edible i worked in the kitchen the last month i was there we got some pretty good meals because they were cooking meals for the guards we got those meals what about what about holiday meals like they they yeah they tried yeah that's what i thought broke the chickens and shit that's what i thought i thought they tried well i thought you know like first of all Like when I was out committing crimes, like when I thought about what prison would be like, like I wasn't thinking, well, they get good, they feed them good and they have good meals on the holidays.

I didn't think any of that. I thought you got slop every day. And so when the holidays came around, you had a decent meal. Yeah. I was like, wow. Like, I don't deserve this. The thing that was a lie, though, the medical shit. That's a fucking lie thinking to get good treatment.

Now, medical kills more people. That was terrible. Now they send you out at the gate so you don't die on their time. beer guy or they that's a big myth that you get good medical treatment they would have people that's a big myth they would have people die and they'd wake up hard with

rigormorous and they would act like they were still alive they'd be like quick I've got a pulse gets it's like got a pulse on his roommate the guy's as hard as a rock he's been dead all night like you know and you know they would come in they'd grab him and go okay and they put him on the

journey and they'd run him out and they'd say he died in the ambulance on the way Yeah, imagine that. What are you doing? I had a cataract I want to cut out. My counselor's only, you got the way to get out. They didn't get that fucking catarack out for you.

You don't want them to. Yeah, I don't. But that was a big myth. I mean, people believe that bullshit. The medical, it's fucking, it's not true. The Missouri wasn't bad. Wait a guy. Listen, I could, you do a whole podcast

just the different people that died in there that needed just basic medical attention. I don't think we had anybody die. Oh, yeah. Listen, we had 300 people in my camp. We had three people, 300 people in my camp. But if you look at, oh, I had, there was 18 people, 1,800 people to 2,000 people in Coleman.

So it was like every, every three to six months, somebody's dying. I was in Marion, too, by the way. That's where I did. That's where I did my last bit. We talked, I say that message when they shut down Alcatraz. They moved everybody in Marion, but it's only like a, it's not a maxi. It's a, it's a, it's a medium.

Right. boots there you know yeah yeah of course i know yeah the merchant of death right yeah yeah he's over there but he's the character that uh nicholas cage was based on in uh uh lord of war lord of war i don't know i i don't remember the name but when they when they uh brought all the prisoners from Alcatraz what they did you know when they called people a challenge shit and uh Alcatraz had a big steam whistle okay so what they did they put they brought that steam whistle to Marion and every Saturday at noon they'd blow that sunbidges to remind you we were at it.

It was across the street in the main prison. I was in a camp. You see the steam rolling off that whistle. Just to remind you. Have you ever been to Alcatraz? I had a chance because I'm a Raider fan. I went up to a couple games out there. I never did.

Are you serious? I never, I might want to say. But see, one time I was out there, I was on bond. I was getting ready to get my, I thought I was getting probation to Missouri. And I went to Oakland. I went to a Raider game. game. I was going to go to Altra. This might be bad karma. You know, if I go to prison

made it to send him. I didn't go and they still went ahead and sent me to prison. So I should went. I went. I went when I was probably 20, 22, 3, 3 years old. I went to Alcatraz. I should have went. I should have went. Yeah, they got, they got fairies that run over there. I think I was going to go once, but the ferry was sold out. Yeah, we went and you could, you know, when I, you could put on, you get headphones and what happens is you follow like a line and it's like you know you go to number two you go to number two and you're standing in front of a cell and they have the guy that was in had been previously in that cell he's talking to you and he's like oh i was arrested in or you know sentenced in 1931 i served

11 years in this cell and he would tell you this whole thing you'd be like oh my god and you know i'm 22 years old and then you go to like you know you know go to number four you go to number four And then there would be maybe a guard would tell you a story. Maybe the guy was dead and he couldn't do it. And there'd be a guard that'd say, you know, this is where, you know, Al Capone spent seven years, you know, for a tax, you know. And so you do the whole there, didn't he? No. He died in Marion.

Died in, and he died in Florida. He went to, um, he went to Sarasota. He had a house on the bay in Sarasota and he died there. He died of syphilis. Died of syphilis. Yeah. I knew he did. got a syphilis. I was thinking he died in

Appetraz. That, that, by the way, that was curable, but he didn't want to tell his wife that he had syphilis. Huh. Because he, you know, so he didn't want to get treatment for the syphilis. So he never told his wife. Instead, he just suffered with syphilis. Give it to her or what? I don't know the rest of that story, but, you know, what an idiot.

Like, I'd just, fuck, I just go get the treatment. Like, it's penicillicillin. Yeah. Well, tell her. No shit. Yeah, exactly. No shit. Or own up to it. Listen, I bang some fucking chick a few years ago and I got fucking you know this and we both need to go or we

could both die. Sorry you're disappointed in me. Did you fly Conair any? I was on that fucker three times. Yeah. You go to Oklahoma? Went through Oklahoma. Boy, that's a that's a fucking conveyor belt, right? Like that's a machine. Yeah, no shit. When they line you up like chickens on the on the thing

and I'll chain everybody up. Yeah. That's like assembly line work there. My girlfriend went through it too. We talk about it. Like they just, yeah, you walk up on the little stairs and they, those guys are so fast. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They pull your, pull your cuffs off.

That's weird. It's almost like they're almost not on, Connor. They almost, they literally, they will hit you with the key, twist it, twist it, twist it, twist it, and then yank practically. So it's like, they are so fast, like your hands are, and then they pull them off you, you're like. Like factory workers, but fuck. Yeah, it's something about it. It's amazing how fast they, boom, give you a brown bag with a bologna sandwich and keep going and go here and go there and go up there. and you're in room 105.

He gets some bitch on a plane, I'll cover. Oh, yeah. That's good time. Everybody, he's heard this, like, he's heard this several times. Like, everybody talks about that, being on, like, the bus trying to eat. One of my, one of the guys I met there, he was a guy from Marketsaw. This is like my third Conair trip. He goes, hey, buddy, when you go to the bathroom, they take these handcuffs or I said,

fuck, no. The fuck you're talking about. That's, I don't know how people shit. Do people actually shit? What, in the bus? On the fuck, no one, the con airplane when you got to. Oh, I don't, listen, I, I know guys have pissed their pants. But they take you back to the bathroom.

Yeah. Well, how are you going to do that? That's what I mean. Now, first, you know, one of the things is the same, it's like designed where they give you, like, peanut butter. They give you all these things that basically keep you from going to the bathroom. You got a, you got a piss, though. All the women up front. Yeah, all the guys.

Keep your head and shoulders out of the aisle because of them guys want to sniff them girls' box when everybody goes. my my girlfriend was like she's like all the guys yeah baby hey baby keep your head and show her out the aisle she said it was good time oh yeah yeah yeah i got shipped around um through conninger so i went to i got arrested in tennessee so they sent me to oklahoma i went to uh to um atlanta we're at i was at the robert a date that's at the robert a date initially i was at union city but then they actually when I I was there about six months and then I got moved to Atlanta City Detention Center and about a year later they closed down Union City

because it had so many violations and but I was only locked up for those two places was a year and then I was sentenced and I went to Coleman I was in Youngstown for a month Robert A Dayton Center you ever heard that and it's in Atlanta Robert David Dayton Detention Center

That wasn't bad. Then I went to Oklahoma and then married the last trip. Yeah, Marianna, I married in Illinois. Pete Rose went there. Pete Rose did his time there. He watched the 90 World Series there in that. They said he spent most of the time in the warden's office kissing his ass. How much time did Pete Rose do?

They got him. They didn't get him for gambling. They got him for tax evasion. Oh, okay. I think he only did six months. I think he was, the Reds won the World Series. 1990 and I think he watched it from the I think he watched his team in

the pen. I'm pretty sure that's the story I heard. In the pen? Well, he's in a camp. Oh, okay. I'm going to say it. The hell. The camp. He did six months, I believe. I think he did much time. Here. That's what I heard. So... The myth was that he'd give money to help build

a softball field. It was a nice softball field. It was top of the line. Really not. It was nice. Nice infield, smooth infield. There was a rumor that he give money to help build a softball field true or not I don't know I was gonna say there's lots of rumors um oh oh anything else buy my book definitely buy that's your you can have that that's your that's your book and your prescript I need to Matt the cat I would have called him Matt the cat if he's locked up with me the slick cat slick talking cat I

appreciate you guys watching and if you like the video do me a favor and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this share the video if anybody a lot of guys are like bro i don't understand your channel's not blowing up well you're not sharing my video yeah um also uh leave a comment in the comment section i try and respond to most of the comments i've been slacking the last couple days but i'll jump back on it and i really do appreciate it also my email is in the description so if you want to send me an email directly you can send me an email and thank you very much for yeah i appreciate you uh coming and all right see you