Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - iPhone Scam Makes Millions!

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Ray Haug shares his life story and how they made thousands with an iPhone scam. Ig: _panicgale_ FB: Raymond haug LinkedIn: raymond-haug Get 15% when you use my link https://buy.ver.so/cox , this will auto apply the code "COX" when clicked. Get 50% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout. Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7 Send me an email here: [e-mail] Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content? Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news   🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt 🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/re Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69

I was pulling 40 grand a month. We would hit a city for like three, four months until the store is caught on. They couldn't do anything because it's not illegal. So what we were doing is come from a long line of inmates. My mom and dad were fishermen and he was an old school coke addict in Seattle and overdosed when I was five. Looking back now in like recovery, I have like nine years clean, but like analyzing my teenage years, I feel like, my early drug use and like IV drug use was probably like an attempt to like connect with my father, you know, because like I started using IV drugs at like 14, you know, so we were

in and out of group homes, foster homes, homeless. Oh wow, went bad, that went that quick. Yeah, my mom, she wasn't a drug addict, but she dealt with her own like problems, always working three jobs and stuff like that. So she did her best and like we were just like not supervised. The first crime I ever did or like got arrested for, I was. 13. Me and my brother had been sneaking out at night and like breaking into cars in the neighborhood, stealing stuff from stores when we were shopping with my mom or whatever. And

that was like so easy for us. We kind of like, like we weren't drinking or doing drugs yet, but we knew that if we stole alcohol, that would be like upping the ante. So we started hitting beer runs at our local Safeway like two, three times a day. And like so we would just change our outfits and then go in there and like so what we would do is I'd have a backpack on and then my brother would be behind me and he would like throw stuff in the backpack and then we go out so um we got caught one time I ran my brother got snatched uh I ride I'm on a bike I'm a kid right and so I take a long way through the neighborhood and I go home and there's seven sheriffs outside my house right so I don't go home immediately um when we do go when I do go back

I went to the neighbor's house and he talked me into like going and talk to the cops, right? So we go, we walk in and, um, they had like three months of footage of me and my brother, like from that same safe way, just stealing beer the whole time. And we had a tree house with, uh, like, 250 bottles up there. Like, we weren't even drinking. Like, we were just stealing just for the thrill of it. Like, and, uh, so that's where we, that was our first court interaction. So that put us in the juvenile system. We had to do, uh, drug and alcohol classes. Uh, we were on juvenile probation from that point forward. You know, we got, uh, theft charge. So the reason we ended up in group homes and foster homes is because by this time,

I'd probably been arrested like 12, 15 times as a juvenile. And my mom didn't come pick me up. Like, she just left me there. So I got my release date. She wasn't there. When you're a juvenile, if your parents, you're not released to your parents, then the state takes over and it's like, hey, you're, so they let me go after they found a group home for me to go in.

At that point, I was by myself, but like, I would always run from the group homes. and, like, probation and stuff like that. And so they knew, my probation officer knew that, like, home life was, like, crazy. Like, so, and he knew I was going to leave the group home. So he let me stay. He's like, look, Ray, you can, like, smoke a tree. He's, like, you can fail for trees. Like, I don't care about that.

He's like, you can stay at your girl's house. Just, like, I need to know where you are and stop doing, like, powder and, like, ex-st stuff like that, you know? And so, like, he was really cool and, like, tried to help me get off probation. And, um, I did get clean for. a little bit, like four months, and I ended up getting off paper when I was 17. I got off paper, and then within four months, I had relapsed, and then, you know, started selling drugs again. And then I ended up in a bad situation. I owed some people some money. My brother at this

time, him and me were together. Like, we always like... It never sounds good. I got a bad... Just thinking about how four of what that sentence. That was a bad situation. I owed some people some money. My first thought is like, that just doesn't sound like a good situation. No, so my brother and me, we never, like, lived together, but we always work together, right? And I had, like, better connections in Seattle. And so at the time, I had the connection for Brown.

Right. And so I was getting it, I was picking up, like, an ounce or two ounce, you know, up to a QP a day. And then what I would do is I'd drop off half to my brother where he was staying. And he'd get rid of that. and then, you know, we'd re-up. And I ended up driving for my plug. Like, he would, in Seattle, like, you call to Mexicans or whatever, and they tell you what corner to meet you on.

They come pick you up. You know, you do whatever. And then you leave. My guy's driver had robbed him, like, stole a car. So he said he couldn't meet me that day. And I was like, well, you need someone to drive? And he's like, no, I just use people from my country. I was like, okay, well, whatever, hit me up.

Like, a couple weeks later, he offered me a job to, like, drive for him. So, like, after that, I didn't have to, I was just like totally on front, right? So I had a bunch of dope. I would just go out to my brother, drop off the stuff, and then I would sell for the other guy the whole time. So now I didn't have to buy anything. I was just getting paid off making this dude's deliveries

and then selling my stuff through my brother. I had two apartments, one where I, like, slept and, like, kept everything. And then I had another one where I stashed all the dope and, like, whatnot. I got robbed. The guy who was staying at the apartment where I kept all my dope, we were there. And he must have, like, he, like, roofied me. some shit. Like I woke up the next day. My safe was gone. Like, but he left me in the house. And I was like, this stupid is stupid. So, uh, me, I called my brother up. We cleaned the house

out. And we were sitting in a car trying to figure out what to do because he took my safe. And at the time, I'm 17, right? Like, I don't know that like, you know, a couple thousand dollars is probably not a big deal to my plug. But to me, I'm like, it's a big deal, right? Right. So me and my brother are sitting there. We don't got any of the dope. I'm supposed to meet up. I was supposed to meet up to the guy at like 10 in the morning, right? And I own money and I lost all the dope that I had for him. He'd probably let you just work it off. Like, you know?

Yeah, dude. Right. And my experience now as an adult going through like all the stuff. Like, but as a kid, I was like, I, you know. Yeah, you're terrified. Oh, my God. Yeah. I know, I own Mexican connected to the cartel possibly.

Thousands of dollars, they'll kill me. Which is funny because down the road, the shit, the dude got robbed. Like, every now and then, like, a driver would just like not come back with his car or whatever. And he's like, I'm not tripping. Like, it's like, five. grand, whatever. It's the cost of doing business. Yeah, he wasn't tripping, but I didn't know that. So me and my 16 year old brother and my buddy who was like, my driver, we're in the car and we

were trying to figure out what to do. And my brother leaves, right? And when he comes back, he has a whole cash register in his hands, right? And so he's like, drive, dude. And we peel out. So we go to the neighborhood and he's like, he's like, we're going to get your money, bro. And I was like, okay. So that's what we started doing. So we would go, we started in Seattle and we worked our way up 99.99's like the big highway out there all the way up to Everett. And we would hit four or five convenience stores, 7-Elevens, gas station, smoke shops a day. So we would just go in. I would have a hood on.

I would go to buy a candy bar or a Gatorade. As soon as they pop the till, I come across, I grabbed the till, and I just dip. Usually it was pretty straightforward like that. And, I mean, it's not a good lick. Like, you're risking a rob one, like, a serious strikeable offense. Yeah, tops. Like the best one I got was like $480, right? So we got the money back same day

It was like 2,400 bucks I owed a guy right So I just called my plug and I was like hey sorry I overslept I was partying No problem I'm back on like I give him his money I'm back driving So but at the time so mind you I'm 17 almost 18 I've been like doing brown like consistently since I was 14 like this is just like my lifestyle now I really really liked the robberies like that like I was gonna say You would think that at that point, I just came with $2,400 in a day. You'd think something would have clicked in your head.

Because I was thinking to myself after that, I would have been like, oh, oh, no. It was too easy. Like, I was like, this is the way to go. Well, that's what I was thinking. As a kid, I was like, this is, you know, like, this is no effort. Like, I'm not going to get caught. It's like, to me, I thought, I didn't have a gun or anything. I was like, it's not a big deal.

I didn't know how sentencing worked. I didn't know that, like, it was a rob one, whether I had a gun or not, right? Because. Well, and you risk the, the. potential of causing harm or i was going to say or robbing some guy who and he's got a gun and you think you know what oh okay sorry we get there so so i'm selling drugs and uh i'm doing robberies after work right just for fun um and of course that's it's a given it was like it was the new high you know because like the drugs weren't doing shit and uh i like i literally i was making money selling

drugs like i didn't need to do it it was just it was fun right um So there's one time me and me and my driver we go out, my brother's not with me at this time and we go in and I hit this convenience store and it's this little lady behind the counter and I go to grab the till just like normal

and she grabs my hood and slams my head into the counter right? Bam! Right? And she's got me by the hair. My hair was like medium length at this time, right? She has me by hair and she's like fucking me up like clawing my face. Like I was bleeding so I decked her. I laid her out like slept her. and I grab the till

I go out there's a check in there and like maybe $80 right and I have my glasses are missing a lens like I'm up like I have the till we get in the car

and I just knock this old lady out right and so I told my buddy I was like bro I'm not hitting old ladies no more like we gotta get a pistol like I'm not I don't want to yeah I almost got caught

bro like also I had to hit a lady so he's like okay so we got a pistol after that which did two things one it made the robbery just go way smoother like you pull up especially in a convenience store they don't want nothing you just go in they're like and yeah they're making eight bucks an hour they don't go no they'll take it dude like and for me what did like i got addicted to that like that power i had

over the situation so we started like just doing it a lot a lot a lot and um long story short no so my brother uh this uh so my brother he gets uh into a dv situation with his girlfriend he calls me up me and matt are doing our robberies uh we go i tell him like hey just chill out i'll come pick you up right and he's like oh well she took the dope and everything right i was like i don't care just like you know i'll come grab you so i go pick him up this dumb ass he he he him and his girl got in like a fist fight and they always did and uh she called the cops on him and he took her phone now so like i had picked him up but they had pinged her phone because he took it so that's where we all got arrested like we were

I just picked them up, and then we get arrested. They take all of us to jail. They take me and my driver to jail for possession, and we had some stolen plates in the car for, like, doing the robberies and stuff like that. And they take my brother in for assault, right, on his baby's mom. At this time, like, in our area, like, we were on the news and everything, but they didn't know it was us. Yeah, they just looked for the robbers. Yes, right?

my brother doesn't know that like that's why we're getting arrested right so the detect and he's what 17 16 he so when we're all sitting down there me and me and the driver get booked and released right just we have no records like i just got off probation whatever like all that stuff was wiped matt didn't have a record at all so they book and release us for the possession and the stolen stuff in the car right and so they just gives a court date come back my brother's staying because he has an assault 2 db like on his girl right but then he just free gives them all the robberies and the drug dealing because he thinks that's why we got arrested the detective walks in you you know why we're here obviously because of the robberies yes so that they're like yes yeah so that happens

um i'm unaware of this uh me and matt go back to business as usual um i'm just my brother's in jail he's beat up his girl like like i'm like he's not getting out for a little bit right right so i have idea of this stuff is happening um so now they're on to you yes now they're kind of they're what following you or well they pick up my driver they pick up him by himself and then he also tells them everything right of course and then i catch wind of this because then the detectives they weren't they didn't they didn't nobody had explained the street code no no i mean at this point in my life i thought me and my brother were solid on it you know like that felt like we knew yeah because i mean we've been a juvenile drug court we've been doing this since we were like

13, I was like, I thought it was understood. Right. It was. It was. It was a different understanding of it. Right. His understanding was, this is the way to go. Your understanding was like, oh, no, you don't tell anybody on it.

Don't ever tell anybody. Like he thought that. Yeah, we have a different understanding of that. We talk a lot about crime on this show, but let's face it, some of the biggest crimes are committed by the government. You've heard the story before. Big Pharma swoops in to take control. Now, the FDA is trying to reclassify NMN a natural compound in,

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Get it while you still can and take control of your health before the FDA and Big Pharma take it out of your hands. Matt gets out, my driver gets out, and he's like, hey, man, your brother's telling on us, blah, blah, blah. I was like, my brother's still in jail and you're out, so I beat his ass, right? I was like, you're fission, bro, right? And the detectives go to my mom's house, and my mom calls me. hey you come like turn yourself in i was like that right and i went on a run so now but now you

realize yeah now they're looking for me right they know who i am they're looking for me they already got my brother they got matt matt's dealing with whatever he's doing uh so i mean i get arrested um i ended up turning myself in like a couple months later i was just like this i couldn't do like my whole shit had just like falling apart right and now i'm on the news like so i turn myself in and when i when i go in they're like hey we don't the texas come in and i'm like i don't got to talk to you they're like we don't even need to talk to you and they handed me a packet of paper and it was like an 18 page statement from both of them and like that and that shit like it broke my heart you know because it was it caused a lot of issue between me and my brother for a while after that um but that started my uh my

my first prison term so um like i said i graduated juvenile drug court so i had no charges going in uh they could only put me i didn't they had me on nine robberies uh that's where they had me, like, wearing the same sweatshirt or whatever, I think these ones. But I didn't, the only two that Matt and my brother said I did, those are the only ones that I pled out to, like, because they couldn't prove to other ones because I was, like, by myself, right? So I didn't plea out to any of those. I fought it.

I took the two, and I pled out to two rob twos, and I got a year and a day for my first sentence. Oh, you're just fine. I did great. That's not like a test. Yes. Well, what I didn't know, and I met Brandon in the county when we were both fighting that. Both of us took our first plea bargains.

And Brandon is how, Brandon is the, what was the name of the Nikki? The video was Nintendo scammers, stealing from Nintendo. Yeah, stealing. Oh, okay. So Brandon did the stealing from Nintendo. I'm not really a game guy. He was selling the Wii sticks, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is it we sticks? Yeah, we. Well, he was taking the claims and selling the consoles. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But some of the claims were, like, people were, you know, doing the Wii sticks and, like, hitting the TVs or something like that. And he told me about that in jail, but I met him in County on his 14 counts of robbery. Yeah, we were in the same tank. Yeah, like his real story, his real crime story is the robberies.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he kind of packaged it, like Nintendo, like stealing from Nintendo, because he did do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was good. So anyway, he, he, he, that's how we got connected. Yes, that's how we got connected. And, I mean, that's, that, that part's not really super interesting. All that started, that, that was my gig after that. I was like, okay, cool.

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going to do. I'm a stick up kid and I sell dope. Like, that's like, it was working for. Some people, it wasn't working for you. You just got out into prison. I know, it was working for me, bro. It was working for me. All right.

I'm an idiot at this point. Also, also, I had, I had no comprehension of like, I, I, was fresh 18. Right. So, like, I had no comprehend. My experience was pretty significant with the system, but it was all in the juvenile courts, which were, they did, I do like, what, 16 weeks? Yeah.

For they sent you in weeks. Like, you can get. They're kind of, they're kind of handling you with kid gloves. They're still trying to turn you around as a kid. No? Yeah. I mean, absolutely. But what I think all it did for me as, like, an individual was like, like, desensitize

me to the system to where I thought it was kind of a joke. You know, like, and I didn't really realize the severity of, like, getting a strikeable offense. Like, so I, I played guilty to a strike, and, like, now I'm in the system. I only did a year and a day. I got a slap on the hand for, like, robberies. I'm doing stickups. Like, I was like, this is at my 18-year-old brain's, like, I can do whatever I want. Right.

So I do my little four months after, whatever, a good time and get out nine months after my sentence. Weeks out. Like, one of the first things I do, I don't have any money. Like, I walk across street from where I'm staying and I go. off a smoke shop and I come back I'm sitting there on the porch with my I because I had them put a bunch of cartons and marreds in there I'm cigarette watching the cops like over at investigate right and but I don't even get like a good run because we started in Seattle doing these robberies and we went all the way up to snowmish county right and so what I didn't realize is when I played guilty

right away is that the other county had not even filed on me so by At the time I got out, the detectives were filed on me for the robberies that were in King County. And so I went, they filed on me like five weeks out, five months out, something like that. Like, I was only out for five months. And they sent me back for another set of robberies, right? And during that time, I went on the run again. I ended up going out to Nebraska, like, whatever. I caught some more felonies of burglary, shit like that.

So I did, I'd do another 13 months. I plead out those robberies down to theft charges. So I do less severe crime, but I still get... 13 months um during that prison sentence uh i get like way more involved in prison politics like i lose all my good time like i you know start putting in work and like go to the hole like whatever i'm like starting to like this is going to be my life you know i'm gonna like prison's my thing you know like god i just accept the reality of it right like i'm like okay i've i've been going to jail since i was 14 like i've been to the juvenile 15 times on some bullshit i mean i'm not even 19

and I've been back to prison twice now. Are you thinking that there's no alternative? Like is there that that's just like the idea that, hey, I might depart from this and go a separate way. Is that like you're saying that's close to you? My first intro, like my first bid, right, I saw all the other stuff and talked a lot of people and I was like, oh, there's like better ways to do things, right? Like I started hearing about other licks and like so by the time I went back the second,

but I didn't think I was coming back. But I came back right away. So I was like, oh, okay, well, this is life. So like, how do I do this? better so that I don't have to keep coming back every five months. Right. Um, so that was like my mindset when I got out. So I get out the second time. And this is where we get into the fraud. Right. So, uh, I, I was really fit. Um, I mean, every time I, I mean, I've been working out since the juvenile. And like, so every time I'd get out of jail, the only jobs I could really get

right away were like trainer or like gym jobs, like selling memberships or whatever. And it's like, I get a free membership, so I don't got to pay for working out or whatever. So I'd always get a gym job. Me and my brother both. So I go, I'm working at this gym. And this is like a little detour story. So while I was doing my time, one of my friends got robbed by a kid I know. And he wasn't really like in the game like us.

Like he was like a drug user partier kind of friend. Like he was one of my skateboarding friends. like right um and one of my buddies that i sold dope with that was like in the game robbed him and beat him up real bad and i heard about it while i was down and so when i got out i was like well i'm gonna go f***y up for that right um so i'm at the gym and working like i was like had my shit together i wasn't like doing drugs or anything i was drinking on the weekends like being chill like i'm gonna get my life together right but uh i go and i hit up i hit up the dude that beat up my friend and I was like hey I'm back on like you know you want to come try the shit I

got like give you whatever right and so he meets up with me and I I beat his ass right and when I I slept him in the road and I put him back in the car and I buckled him in because he's like passed out and I opened his trunk and he had a mini 14 and a Mossburg 500 in a trunk right and so I what's that assault rifle and so I take that and I don't know what I'm going to do with it right but I'm like whatever I'm going to sell these like this free maybe, you know. So I leave. I'm staying at my mom's because I just got out. I'm at the gym and I get a call for my mom and she's like, there's assault rifles in my house. Like, you better get these. It's like, mom, don't touch my guns. She's like, I'm going to call your probation

officer. I'm like, you better not. You better not. So I leave work. I go get the guns. I leave. But now, like, my mom's going to call the cops, right? So I was like, I can't stay at my mom's. Like, I got these assault rifles. So I hit one of my prison. connects up and I went up and I sold the guns or I got rid of the guns but at this point now I'm like okay I'm backing the shit like right I got so part of the deal for the guns I got some dope

and he gave me some dope and money and so I just like started selling again or whatever but now I'm staying in motels like because I don't got anywhere to stay so I'm just like cheap oh motels and I'm walking around downtown Seattle and this guy comes up and he's like hey man you want to make

150 bucks and I was like I'm not new, so I'm like, no. Yeah, nobody's giving away $150. I was like, for what? I'm like, I'm not doing no credit card bullshit. He's like, no, man, I'll give you cash. You don't got to do no cards. I was like, no, I'm good, right?

And so I leave. Then the next day, I'm down there, I see him again. And he's like, hey, you want to make $150 today? And I was like, not really, but I'm curious. I'm like, what are you guys doing? You know? And he's like, oh, we're just, we're getting cell phones. I was like, okay, like with checks or like what?

You know, like, so like my buddy said, like, you know, go get the checkbook for the bank account and then you just cash as many as you can or whatever um and he said no it's not like that but i didn't believe him right like but i got his information and i was like no dude i'm good like you know i'll take your number though like if i you know something comes up well what did he tell you he said they were going in and getting phones and that he would just need me to sign up for the account and then he would pay me for using like me to get the account and i was like i don't want to do that it sounds like just straight up like i'm going to go to jail in like a week or whatever after because of my name's on it right yeah so like he can't get a burner phone no no he

wanted to he was they were like buying iPhones oh okay okay but I'm gonna leave it like that for you because like that's where I was like it just doesn't make sense like what like I don't understand the scam here right got it but I took his number a couple weeks go by me and my buddy we're just we're just robin dope dealers on a street like I hit him up I'm not even doing drugs again at this point um but we just like walk around first hill and be like hey you got a sack and then it's They said, yeah, I'd be like, okay, cool, let me get a bag. And then we go in an alley, and we just sleep them and take their shit and then sell that. That's what we were doing.

Like, we were not. The term sleep them. He'd make him go nine-nine. I know. I understand. But we were not doing very well. This is like bottom of the barrel. Like, we were just like, we needed money to pay for our place to stay.

And like, we were like trying to figure out what we were going to do. So we're a short one we, I called a guy. I'm like, hey, man, what's up with this hundred, bucks. And he's like, oh, I'll come pick you up right now. So he pulls up and he's in our Prius and he's got this chick, right? And he's like, you got an ID? I was like, yeah, he's like, bring your ID, right? So I bring the ID and I get in the car. I'm like, look, man, like, I really don't want to sign up for or like do. And he's like, no, I'll go in the store with you. I was like, you're going to store with me? He's like, yeah, he's like, and we're going to use my cash.

And I was like, what do I got to do? He's like, you just got to be there, bro. Just put your name, like, open accounts. I was like, okay. So he takes me out to Bellevue, which is like fancy area up there. We go to the mall. We walk into the Apple store and we ask them to set up a new phone account, right? Because at the time, you can go into Apple. They got the iPhones all out and you go like try them all out, right? And they have the different carriers. Oh, you can sign up with this one. You can do it all in the store with Apple, like Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon. It was all right there. And how it used to work, this is 2012, 2013, is like when you get a cell phone plan, they would run your credit and your credit didn't have to be fantastic like 550 right like whatever so

as long as you didn't have like a bankruptcy or some shit or they're approving you for a phone plan and how they used to do it is you would get they run your credit they say oh you're approved and the brand new phone like say that the iPhone 8 had just came out right if your credit was good you could get the brand new one for $200 down for that phone right and what you're doing is they're setting up the line and you're giving them a deposit and then and you pay it over time or whatever. So if you get approved... They're financing the phone for you.

Now they finance the actual unit, the phone, itself. So you can't do this scam, I'm telling you. But back then, you were financing the plan. Okay. Like, it was not attached to the phone. Like, so they would give you three lines at Sprint, three lines at AT&T. You could get five lines at Verizon.

But you couldn't get those all at one time, especially if it's just you and your buddy walking in, right? So what they had me do is they signed up for two lines at Sprint. I got approved I was like no way like I'd never gotten anything on credit before like I didn't even know like how credit worked right and they approved me they gave me two phones dude pays for the phones I set it up like in my account I'm like it's like our account right like me and my buddy are getting a phone plan that's what we tell them right and so we set up the two phones he pays them the cash for the phones 400 bucks for the two iPhones right and then like

whatever the taxes so and we leave the store and we go to Best Buy and then you go to Best Buy, who also has the phones and you can add, and we just tell them, hey, we're going to add a line to the Sprint plan. He's like, okay, what's your phone number? I give him the phone number I just got. The guy is doing most of this at the time, right? Because this is my first time doing it. Yeah.

So he's doing most of the talking, right? So we add a line to my plan. He gives him another $200 because I got approved. He has the line. Now the dude has three phones for $600, right? He gives me $150 for my time, and he gets to keep the phones. He paid for the phones, right? those phones when an iPhone first comes out even today it's like 12 14600 bucks right like that's

its retail price right and then like now you can still finance it 50 60 bucks a month whatever right what they did was they were taking the phones and then they were so you call it in and like a burner phone like you can go get a verizon flip phone or whatever right they they transfer the lines I just started onto the burner phone and then what they never even opened the other iPhone now you have a brand new not connected to account iPhone and that you just bought for $200 and you can sell that for $1,600 or more because there's a shortage like because it just came out right so now he 250 because he gave you 50 a phone he just walked out 4,500 in profit right you know for those three phones right like he paid me 150 bucks so like he's he's leaving a $3,200 in profit like if he sells

those three phones, right? Right. But so for me, I was with him maybe an hour and a half, right? It was like the easiest $150 I made. I was like, we didn't have to rob no one. I didn't, to me, I was like, I didn't do anything illegal. We literally purchased the phone with cash. Right.

I was like, can I do more? He's like, you got, you ever had a phone plan? I was like, no, he's like, let's try the other ones. Verizon didn't approve me. AT&T did. I got another two phones for AT&T that gave me another hundred bucks, right? And I was like, I was like, bet. This is, this is tight.

Like, I was like, I didn't have to hit no one. I didn't, you know, like, I was like, nobody chased me. Yeah, this was fantastic. I was like, I was like, how do I make more money with you, bro? And he's like, you got, you know people? I was like, oh, I know people. Like, he's like, everyone you bring me, I'll get you $50 if they get approved. I was like, for sure.

So I went and me and my buddy, we got a minivan and then I just like hit up all the crackheads I knew, right? I was like, anyone I sold drugs to. I was like, hey, man, you guys got an ID? Like, come with me, right? I started bringing this guy like five, six people a day, right? Right. And it's like he said he's paying me 50 bucks a person. I'm not doing shit. I'm literally, I'm a crackhead shuttle. Like, that's what I'm doing. That's all I'm doing. I'm going between like the east side and going to north end. Like just rounding people up and bringing them to him. And this dude, he, he loved me. He's like, this is the best thing that's ever happened. He didn't know. But like, so the more I did this with him. Like the more, they were there probably for like, I don't know, like a month, two months we were doing this like around Seattle. And he got more comfy with me because I've seen him every day. Right. And this guy had. like 20, 30 racks on him at like all times, right? Because he's buying all these phones. He doesn't have just have me bringing in people. He's like other people. He bringing in people. So I started

seeing what was happening. I was like, this dude's like pyramid skimming like this. Everyone who does it, he tells them the same shit. I'll give you this much. I'll give you this much. And I was like, well, you can't tell all those guys I just brought you that you're giving 50 bucks. He's like, well, I'll give you 100 for, you know, and then you give them 50. I was like, perfect. Right. And so we started doing that. The whole time, and I'm like, well, I'm going to rob this dude, right? I was like, I'd never seen 20, 30 racks in one spot. Like, so I was like, it's just him and his girl in a Prius.

I was like, he's a super target, dude, like, right? But what happened over that two months is like, I was like, I don't know, dude, this is like a pretty steady flow of money. Like, why would I fuck with this guy, you know, right? Until he said he was going to leave and he's like, oh, we're going to go to Denver. I was like, I got robbed this guy like this week, right? I was a watered almost. I feel bad for this guy.

I mean, you know, I really like this dude. No, like, I do. This guy and the guy that I ended up working for for, like, the next, like, year and a half. Like, I credit with a lot of, like, my personal growth as a person. Honestly, you know, like, I learned a lot of life lessons from him. But at the time, I was like, I'm a good guy. I'm going to have to rob you for that. Yeah.

I was going to sit at time and just leave him. I was like, dude, we can just take his priest, too. But, uh, he hit me up. I was like, uh, and he was like, uh, and he was. like, hey, man, you want to go to Denver? I was like, no. Like, how am I going to go to Denver? He's like, I'll buy you a plane ticket. I never left Seattle, right? At this point, I was like, I'm, fuck, yeah, right? To me, as like a 19 year old kid, I was like, that's fake, right? So I was like, I'll believe that, like, and he, so he hit me up later that night, and he's like,

hey, grab your bags, like, meet me at C-Tac. I was, like, for real, he's like, and he sent me a picture of the plane tickets. I was like, no way. So I packed my shit, right? And I go, and I told my partner at the time, who I was going to rob him with and I was doing all this stuff, right? He didn't have an ID, right? He just got out the feds, like he was,

he didn't have this shit, like, at all together, right? I was like, I'll go out there see if this shit's legit. If it's legit, I'll send you out, you know, like, I'll send you some money

to come out, right? And he's like, cool. So I go get on a plane, I go to Denver. And I'm like, well, what? They bought me a hotel room, right? And then I don't have a car,

nothing, right? Like, I just got my clothes. And what they would do is they'd pick me up every morning from the hotel. They'd go drop me off in some random hood, and they'd be like, just call us as soon as you got four or five people ready, right? And so, like, what I would do is I'd go through the hood. Hey, you got 150, you want to make 150 bucks?

You got an ID, like, you know, and like, that's what I'd do. And I had been selling gym memberships and, like, hustling, like, my whole life. So, like, it was, it was easy. Well, it's crazy to me looking back on this, though, is like how many people gave me their IDs. Like, yeah, yeah. But just like with me, the pitch was, you're going to come with me. I don't need to hold your ID or nothing.

You're going to do all the talking. I'm literally just going to hand you cash. Like, yeah. So, and they're like, well, they're like, what's not me from running from? I was like, you can, but there's a guy in the car over there and we're going to get you, you know? Yeah. Why would you do that when I'll just hand you $150, right? Yeah, you're about to make $150.

Yes, which is a super easy sell for crackheads, like, or like people who are using, you know? Not everybody was a drug addict. Like, as we did this, um, dude, I ran, like, I did it for a lot of, like, moms and, like, just random people just, like hard up you know like um it was a super easy fast like hour hour of your time you know like i'd buy him lunch or whatever you know um but denver i i smacked like that's where i got really good at it like i think one day i got 36 phones like uh which is a lot of money for you know so i'm making a hundred bucks a person you know so 36 i'm like eight nine hundred bucks a day no problem i have like an unlimited drug habit yeah i'm it's at the end of day they just pay me

out. I keep track, right? Like, and they just, whatever. I love life. I'm buying clothes. Like, I flew out one of my girlfriends from Seattle. I was like, hey, you should come out here. I'm like, killing it. Like, are you figuring out, like, what their connect is? Okay, I was going to say, like, how do I move up in this scheme? That's always where my brain goes, right? So, like, the same thing. I was like, hey, man, so when I started, when I started doing it, so we have different, we have different levels. So, like, we called the people that, like, me, like, rounding everyone up. We were, like, recruiters, you know? And we had the managers or whatever.

That was, like, the guy with the money that sat in the car that sent me or the girl in with whoever to, like, make the story more believable, right? Because oftentimes, like, me and, like, some 45-year-old black lady doesn't make sense. Why are we starting a phone plan together? So we need to have, like, a different type of person to go into the store. And I'm paying attention to all this. but after I start doing like pulling like 20, 30 phone days, you know, I'm like, hey, man, I want, I want more money, you know, I want like 200 account. I know how much money you guys are making.

Like, I want, you know, more than that. So they were like, yeah, no problem, right? It's so funny how I was, I'm sorry, it's just so funny how you, I talk to people and I always wonder, like, did you ever ask for more money? And most people are like, no, I never been occurred to me. Oh, me and these guys got into it a couple times. Like one time I left, I left dude. It's hard to find somebody reliable.

Yeah. I mean, they didn't know. You're not reliable, by the way. You were going to rob them. But they don't know that. They think we've got a solid guy here that shows up every day. He's personalable. He's able to talk to people.

He can go up. He can hustle. He's a good. Like, that guy's worth his weight in gold. I was reliable. I didn't end up rob him. Oh, wow. I never robbed him.

Even better. Even better. No, like, me and that were like tight. Because you know, people. But like, it was. Right. But I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like in that industry, people are good for four days. And they get enough money to get a bunch of dope. And then they're gone for a week. Never hear from again. Right. So, I mean, and we built on it. Like, so their model was, and I learned this from like being with them for a long time. There was like two big groups at the time doing it. We called them to Detroit Boys. That was the other group. And there was our guys and they were from L.A., right? And they both these groups, sometimes we'd be in the same city together at the same time. but we would hit a city for like three, four months until the store is caught on. You know, once the store is caught on, my face started popping up and like, you know,

they had flyers out, you know, like they couldn't do anything because it's not illegal. So what we were doing is contract fraud, but we were, it's identity theft, but we're using the actual person. Yeah, the person's there. And they're not complaining. No, not at all. And so in contract fraud is a civil, like it's a civil matter. It's not like a misdemeanor or anything, right? So what's happening is I'm signing up for a phone plan and I'm just not making the bill.

They're going to send me a collections. That's it. Right. And then because someone has like seven to eight phones that just popped up on their credit report, they can claim fraud and they'll get it thrown out. Right. Most of these people, because they're struggling, they don't follow through with that. So they get a little, you know, they might have that $15, $1,800 bill like whatever. But if they ever did clean up their act, it's a couple of writing a couple of letters to get it taken off.

I got mine taken off. Yeah. yeah like and so and i a lot of people did like um the main people that are losing is like apple verizon at t and whatever and like i don't feel bad for that i know that shit breaks my heart i just i got a little i just got lost i'm asleep at night i got a apple tattoo over here no you do not yeah i did bro i made i did the math um so like i was pulling at my peak like after the first two three months like 20 40 grand a month you know just and this is me not running it yet this is just dude paying me right right and

And at this time, like I said, I'm 1920, like it was, that was like the best money I'd ever had, you know? So I got Apple tattoo. I was wearing true religion jeans. Those are super cool at the time, right? I go in there and be like, I need seven pairs of those. Like, every city we go to, I would just buy a new wardrobe. Like, I was like, Hoodridge for the first time of my life. Right.

Yeah, I was going to say, how is the drug habit? Is it stable? Oh, no. Out of hand. I was going to say uncontrollable. Yeah. And the dude that I was working for, the main guy, uh, you know, is the drug. He was joke because like these guys were not drug addicts like that were doing it like that like had this scam going.

There's a lot of us working for him that were, but like they were not. They were just criminals, you know, like being hustlers. And they're like me. Like this is just this is this is this is the field I've gone into. Yes. You know. Yes. Exactly.

Which I had never ran into one of those before. Like that was my first. I, my crime and had always been drug fueled, you know, like to feed my habit. Like, I've been a, I was an addict since I was a kid, you know. So I, like, really idolized these guys, you know. I was like, these guys are, like, doing it, you know? But they thought I was funny. They were like, dude, I don't care how much clear.

Like, if you bring 30 phones a day, he's like, I'll buy you the dope. Like, he's like, right? That's horrible. So to me, I would have been thinking of myself, if I can clean this guy up, we can make a ton of money together. He sent me to treatment twice. Did he? He paid for it. And he bailed me out a lot of times.

He's a good guy. Yeah. They're both of our good guys. Yeah. Um, it was just funny because they're like, Ray's a mess, but he can work, right?

And, uh, I don't, yeah, I don't know what it is like that for whatever reason for, so for me too, I still have like my connects in the joint back in Washington and like, to them like I was like, bro,

like we don't got to do what we were doing. Like I was like, I got this new look, lick, I'll put you on when you get out, right? So like, as soon as my guys were getting out,

I was flying back to Seattle and I was like teaching them how to do it and like set it up. most of them were dump trucks and like literally could not figure it out and like I'm like oh dude what do I do I just like I was like you don't got to rob anyone bro like like stop doing the phones and ran out I got three phones in my hand right now I was like you idiot dude like they couldn't keep it together right or like they would get the phones and they wouldn't mail them to me because these guys had FedEx accounts and everything and because like they'd have different groups and so I finally got to a point where they would send me out by myself like so I had another couple

like this dude underneath me I picked up in Denver he started traveling with me I gave I gave everybody if they seemed reliable or like they had a little hunger to them you know they gave them the same pitch they gave me you know I was like hey we're gonna go to a city and like you know we're gonna go out to Boston next week like do you do you want to go like

we can just keep doing this here you know same thing I had two guys throughout this whole time like the year 18 months I was doing it that like stuck it out you know because like you're saying it's like super I know yeah but they started sending me to like city by myself, right? At this point, I kind of see, like, the whole structure. Like, I know what's

going on. So they have their people doing everything I've just been describing. And then the main guy, we would either mail him if he wasn't in the same city as us. We would go to FedEx every night and just, like, you say, hey, put this on the account and we send him all the phones. He was, he had a buyer in Vegas from wherever that was just like buying 300, 400 phones at a time, right and so he was just getting them from everywhere and then selling them to one single buyer now is this do you think i mean just i don't know that you know this but is this guy taking these phones and just reselling them in like the internet or is he actually i think so yeah okay i was going to say because like some of these things like you can there will be oversee buyers it is an oversee buyer

oh okay okay i i didn't know that the only reason i say i met a guy it's so funny too because i this guy I'll talk to every six months to a year since I got out of prison. I'm always like, bro, you have to come on the podcast and tell your story. I know. I know he's in Miami, selling cars. He's making a ton of money. Yeah. Because I remember when he explained to me why he was in prison.

And he kept when he was telling you've heard me say this. He kept telling me the story. You know how the iPhone, you know, on the iPhone. You know that? And I said, stop saying, you know how on the iPhone. I said, I've never touched an iPhone. The iPhone wasn't in existence when I came to prison. He was like, bro, how long you've been here?

And his whole thing was, it was iPhones. And they were going and getting corporate account. They were actually opening corporate accounts. And then they got at the point where they could get like 10 or 12, like eight planes or something. It was outrageous how many phones are. So our guy, we got to a point, like we were maybe like a year in. And he had someone that had worked in Verizon and this guy worked in Verizon.

And then all of a sudden this guy was in. his car with him all the time and as soon as I would open an account I would call him I'd give him the number that Verizon employee would expand the account like say it didn't have lines on it and we can hit that same person for like 15 20 phones like before it would the system would just lock them out right so like it got like way more complex like the longer we were doing it okay it was a cool lick like it was really really so at that point like there's probably definitely prosecutable things yeah yeah I know he went to prison he got him for like a million and a half or something totally like this is insane it was outrageous yeah yeah and this guy was this anyway

anyway so um but you go ahead you were saying you were flying back and forth with the guys yeah and i mean that there's no that's a dead end story there's just like my buddies i tried to put on no one could right but you said then they then they got the point where they would grab you and they would fly you alone yes so i they would just send me out right they're like do you want to go to boston or do you want to go to montgomery or do you want to go to like we're this is like a It is. You're staying at the, you're staying at the Hilton. We've got you here for two weeks.

We got you here for a month. Dude, you book us rooms and like we, I had a flyer miles and I, so what we started doing is, so because I was really, it was funny, he like praised me for my organization because like I would, I got to a point where like I had enough of my own money that I was just floating him, right? And like, I would just tell him at the end of the day. I was like, hey, you need to, you know, drop. This is when you could still walk into a bank and drop like eight, nine grand and

somebody's account and no questions asked right like you can't do that shit anymore but uh so i would just tell them like i need 7800 bucks i ran like this many people or like i got five guys in my hotel room ready to run at 8 a.m tomorrow morning like this is how much money i need to move those phones whatever right um so that's what i was doing and what i did is i started i opened up a credit card and i opened up two bank accounts and then i would i started collecting the points i just swiping my own credit card for shit like the gas the people's lunches everything right so i'm building up points this dude would just drop the money into my account i pay the bill off i was like i was like actually starting to build like a legitimate name and like i always had like 13 14 grand in

my account at all times so like it was it was nice like it was my first time with that um but i know now like they have a buyer for overseas um so i know that's part of the piece i know how to do the whole getting them the contracts and everything i didn't figure out that they were swapping the IMEI numbers on the phones to the burner phones like I didn't find that out for a while I'd mentioned that in the beginning but I didn't yeah you didn't understand how the I didn't understand how to get the phone off of the account right because like if I if it's attached to the phone number it's useless to you I can't sell it to you right right I need it off I didn't figure that out for a while I forget how I figured that out maybe I overheard one of them talking about it or something like

that but once I had that piece I went and tried it right I went to Walmart I went and bought the flip phone and I swapped it on one of them right and i was like no way right and at that point i hit dude up the guys where i was like i was like look bro i need like 800 an account i'm like i don't literally even need you anymore i was like i know how to do all this shit and like i'm like your best recruiter i was like and so he he gave it to me right he's like all right like and then that's when they started sending me by myself right well i this is i'm in chicago that is a problem with hiring a smart employee.

That's why you want them just dumb enough to pull off their job, but not smart enough to figure out the system. Yeah. Yeah. It was a, and then so the guy that originally recruited me back in Seattle, now I'm on his level, right? Like, so it's me and him. So now I'm basically the money guy in the car now, right?

So like I got Mike, two guys I brought from Denver with me, right? And they've been with me like the whole time, right? And so they're, they're the new me's. Like, just I don't do really any recruit. anymore. All I do is I manage the accounts. I make sure the phones get to the FedEx and like all, you know, the like organized part of it. Me, I forget what the beef was over. Me and the guy that recruited me, we were in Chicago and we got, we got into an argument. I know, oh, it's because I had the car and everything, right? Like, so I had the car and all those like people and the infrastructure

and everything. And me and dude got an argument. And I was like, well, dude, literally, like I kicked them out of the side on the freeway, right? Like, we got an argument about something. I was like, I don't need you, bro. Like, and so I left him on the highway in Chicago, and I called the main guy. I was like, I'm not dealing with all this like drama bullshit. Like, I don't need him telling me what to do, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I am dude. Like, we're on the same, you know.

I just, I don't know, it's probably high and just like, disrespecting me. And so I was like, you know, testing the water. So I quit. I was like, dude, like, and I took all the resources I had at the time, right? And I was like, I'm going to go do my own thing. So I didn't, the one thing I didn't have, I knew how to do the accounts, I knew how to get the phones, I knew how to swap them, like I didn't have a buyer, right? Yeah, but I had enough money. I just kept running the things I had set up, so I had already a couple, like I had a system down. So every day, I started every day with like three or four guys ready to go, right? And if I'd burnt that out, I would go to a new hood and do it over there. Like, so sometimes we'd have the crackhead sleep with us in the hotel rooms. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're

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And so now I got a bunch of phones in Chicago and I don't have a buyer. But I started, I figured, I looked on Craigslist at the time and that's like Craigslist was still viable to do things. There's people, I'll buy any iPhone, right? I'll buy any phone for like and there's ads like any phone, any working phone, $180. These guys are doing similar things to what we're doing. They're reselling them, but they're just doing it without the like illegal part, right? They don't have that figured out yet. Well, I don't know if they didn't have figured out.

They just didn't want to do it. But I started hitting them up. I'm like, hey, man, what if I can get you like 20 phones a day? like you know like and it took me a while but I found a guy and he wouldn't give me he wouldn't give me the like 800 a phone but he gave me like 700 or something like I knew I knew my guy was getting like a couple hundred per phone right and it was like not as much but it was enough to make what I was doing legitimate right right so I started doing that right after about a month of that dude the main guy hits me back up and he's like look man like what do we got to do like

I was like well I want you to buy me a car I was like I want four guys to work for me like I was like I don't want to deal with boy anymore like you know like he was still cool but I was like I don't deal with any of that like hierarchical drama like so like I want like total leeway and I was like and I want like I just gave him all these crazy demands and he gave him to me like cool and so after after a month a month and a half he's starting to realize it's how difficult it's to probably place you. Right. That's what, it's something like that, right? Like, and so I go back to work for him and, uh, we go where, I forget after Chicago, where we went, I know we went all over Connecticut and Rhode Island and, uh, Boston. I got arrested in Boston, uh, for this, actually, uh,

I, I pulled up to the Apple store and I had four guys in a car and I was about to go in, and the detective swarmed us, right? They got everybody. Uh, how did they get on to you? I don't know, like this, but at this point, like, I'd have enough interactions with, like, store people or, like, potential police. I knew that it wasn't illegal, right? Like, so I was like, I'm not tripping and I'm really high and I'm super cocky, right? Like, I'm like, I've already beat this situation a bunch of times, right? So, uh, they're like, where's all the phones? I'm like, they're in the trunk.

I was like, I got all receipts right there and they're go bucks, you know? I was like, I paid for those. Those are my phones. Yeah. And they're like, we know this is a scam. I was like, it's not, though. So, like, are you going to cuff me up front or you can cuff me up back, you know? And then the Boston detective was not, he didn't think that was funny.

And he, like, slam me on the ground. He's like, oh, you think you're funny from Seattle? This is how we do shit out here. My dumb ass, I have some Suboxins, which is a, it helps you kick Brown. It's, I always kept that or methadone, like, in case I couldn't get Brown where I was going, right? So I had someone that was in my pocket, but I didn't remember that when I was mouthed off to the car. And so I, they take me down to the station. I'm not even tripping because I'm like I'm just going to bail out like whatever right

I get down there they charge me with the possession and they charge me I don't know with a theft or something like that for the phones or right but I'm like I'm going to beat that it's not even an issue because I have receipts so I bail out I bail out on five grand I leave they sent they give me a court date right and I didn't know this but Boston at the time I mean it's a commonwealth state so the laws are a little different where in Washington if you bail out, like, you're on bail, like you're, unless you fuck up or something, right? So I go to my court date, and I'm not sweating it.

And the judge is like, uh, Mr. Haug, he's like, I'm reading the police report. And he's like, I can't see anywhere in here where you committed a crime, but it looks like you're taking advantage of homeless people. He's like, we don't take too kindly to that here. So I'm going to increase your bail until we figure out something we can charge you with. And I was, that's literally not legal. That doesn't make sense at all. No, they raised it.

So they raised it a 10 grand, right? And so I called the main guy. And I was like, hey, bro, like, they just raised my bail. I need you to bail me out again. So they bail me out. And I just left. Like, I took a. Yeah, that's not, that's not reasonable.

Like, you have to have a charge. I thought so. Yeah. My understanding of the law is I have to have broken it to be placed into the system. Yes. It was. Apparently it's different there. Wow.

Yeah, that was my first spirit. But I just left. And like, nothing ever came of it. Like, I think after, I don't know, it's been like, 10, 12 years. But you also haven't been back to Boston. Cut that, bro. No.

Right. No, it doesn't even show up. I did a, because I'm starting to expunge my record right now. And I did a federal background check and it doesn't even come up. So I think I'm good. Because they probably just never found anything. And you absconded. They thought, what are we doing, chasing this guy down for something that's going to beat?

Well, it's funny. I was in county. And this was at the time in Boston, you probably are not aware. But, like, I thought it was really funny. The drug lab there, they had just gotten in trouble. Oh, yeah. No, I watched the whole documentary on it. They were letting them all out when I was there.

So I was going in and there was like 8,000 inmates getting released and resentenced and they were stoked because, like, they had to throw out all the drug things because the lady A didn't have a degree and was lying. Have you seen, have you seen that the documentary on it? No, I didn't know they made one. Oh, my God, bro. Yeah. She's a mad. What happened? So there was a chick in the crime lab who started using, she was using drugs.

She was doing powder. Right. But it expanded. If it's the same documentary that I saw, it got to a point where she started realizing like she was hooked on drugs. She's not making enough money. Swapping them out. And so she's going and they're sending her, you know, like powder to test.

So she's like, you know, yes, it's powder. And then she's replacing it with some other. But now she's got a little thing of powder. She can keep them. Then it turns into, oh, then it turns into. Oh, then she goes, at one point, she was, she now has unlimited access and she's replacing the, the drugs, right? And then she starts, she goes, and they had like liquid, I don't know what the liquid is. It was a drug, though.

And she's literally taking the liquid and because you have to mix it. You have to compare the two, right? So they have access to the real pharmaceutical grade drugs. Yeah. So she's now using this. It's a full bottle. And over the course of... Like the formaldehyde?

Like... No, this is like a... Let's say it's like liquid, I don't know, clear. Liquid, it's something. Yeah. Brown and whatever. Because she's going from brown, from like clear to brown and to she's using up everything in there. It's crazy you know about this.

Like, no one ever knows. And she's like pouring water in, but it's separated. She gets to a point where this thing is drained completely. Like now we have to order more. We don't even have enough to use for the testing. So she's faking the test. She's at the point where she can't test stuff fast enough. because she's also hooked on drugs so she starts just faking the test yeah oh he got caught

they're saying they think it's powder yeah it's powder like she just and she didn't know what's real what's not real what she's faked what she hasn't faked and eventually something happens she's changing report she's doing all and somebody starts to figure out something's not right like like some of these people are it turns out that that their lawyers are also testing and you said this was powder and this is not powder this is this is you know baby powder what you know like the crime lab said this is what real we got a problem and then they start sending at samples that's bullshit and she said yeah oh yeah that's clear yeah that's this oh yeah that kind of thing so it unravels and they eventually come in and they grab her and when they grab her she

just but yeah it's they'd have throughout years of cases it is like 8,000 just and they just let them all out of prison they had to yeah they had to they had to resent them or they had to dismiss them because they were it was not a miss yeah at the very least it's it's my case is now appealable and if I have now I can go now I know you don't have the drugs anymore it's been four years or two years so I can appeal it I get a new trial I'm going to go to trial you have no evidence And I'm going to be able to bring in the fact that you had this woman faking test for the past four years. They don't know which ones were real, which ones weren't because she wasn't doing all of them, but like they can't prove it. They can't prove that.

They don't know. And her whole thing was she was trying to say, towards the end, she was trying to say, look, most of them were. It doesn't matter most of them. Which ones? You don't know. But yeah, it's great. And that gives you a bunch of people to go buy phones? No, no.

He's just saying. I was just stoked for the guys that were getting out. And I was, like, watching them all leave. And I was like, that's wild, man. Good for you guys, you know. Yeah, I thought you were saying that you had a bunch of people that were ready to. No. Oh, no.

Okay. There was no shortage of people ready to do the phone scan. Like, it was, it was wild. Oh, listen, when I was surveying homeless people, there was, you know, there was no. The only, my only option, my only problem with surveying homeless people was that I needed to find a Caucasian, like a 35-year-old, in his 30s, Caucasian guy. So it's a little bit hard to find. They're out there for sure, but it takes a little bit more time to find that guy. That was it.

But none of them were like, I'm not interested. I'm giving him 20 bucks. And what I found, I mean, I had an extensive experience with this now is like most homeless people that do not have their credit off. Like they literally never done anything with it. Like that was. Keep on borrowing millions of dollars in their names. Yeah.

So I would pull their credit and they would have, they just have no credit. Or maybe they have a medical bill from five years ago. that just isn't affecting them anymore, you know, not enough. And yeah, that's it, yeah. Or they'd have driver's licenses or maybe they'd have an expired driver's license, but I can easily get their driver's license back. Yeah, they're viable, unfortunately, you know, I don't know what to say. It's probably not, probably shouldn't say, I don't know, you know, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were ideal candidates for fraud.

Yeah, because they don't care. Like, they don't care. And they're thrilled with the 20 bucks. Yep. And they can do nothing with their credit. That's how they got me. Like, at the time, I needed the 150. I'd never done anything with my credit.

I didn't know how to do anything with my credit. If you could be ruined right now, it wouldn't affect me one way or the other. I don't have a job. I can't apply for anything. I can't prove anything. I didn't have to commit a robbery. This is cool. Yeah, wreck my credit.

Right. Write four checks. I don't care. Have you written a book? No. I mean, people have asked if I was going to write a book. that a lot um i don't know like and we haven't got to this point in a story but like uh my post prison experiences got me a lot of immediate attention and like you know stuff like that so

like it feels like i probably could yeah well i mean it doesn't anybody can write it but you don't have to be you know commercially successful for it you can still write it and put it up there just because when people see a podcast or something they might say oh shit you know let me read this whole thing here let me let me let me take check this out and you could also do an audible You know, on my book sales, I make as much on audible as I do on book sales, sometimes more. Yeah, and you can option the rights to the book. You can also option your life rights attached to the book. So you may not be interested in doing something with it, but you don't know what some Hollywood producer might, you know, you might not think of it.

Because you don't, you know, you're efficient in water. You don't realize you're surrounded by the water. You know what I'm saying? This is just your life, so you don't understand how unique it is. But, I mean, keep in mind, we hear four stories, five stories every single week for going on four years. And I told you, there's the only other person I've ever met. One other person that told the story you have, you know, you've got. And yours is actually, I don't think this guy is as sympathetic, although punching the old lady as it doesn't help.

But, you know, you have at least like the guy. The guy, the other guy's name is, his name's Dume. Like, I don't think Dumae had a reason that he got into this. Dumae just wanted money. Right. It was just greed. You know, you're, you had a viable, maybe not people, most people wouldn't think it's probably viable, but at least you can say, hey, you're a sympathetic victim, right?

So you're a sympathetic victim, um, who ultimately was led into this, this, this crime. So that, you know, if, you know, if, you're a sympathetic victim, um, who ultimately, who ultimately was led into this, this, this crime. If you write, you realize, like, if it's like me, you know, well, let's say not me, but let's say in general, somebody who already had all the advantages and had a great upbringing and suddenly just decides to start committing a Ponzi scheme. It's not really a sympathetic victim. Nobody can, their heart doesn't go out to this guy. You've got a horrific upbringing that led you along this path. So you actually have an, and it's a unique story. So, you know, it's not just that because that, most criminals have that. But, and it's unique. It's not like, hey, and I

started selling drugs, okay, well, that's a diamond does. And those stories are everywhere. But this is actually super unique. But anyway, so, sorry, I got off track. Do you want to? That's, it actually, that's, it's funny because we were, I went to Philly shortly after Boston. Okay. And Philly, for me was like, my turning point in the hustle, like, okay, this, like,

I'm on my own now. I have my own people. Like, I have this, like, my money in flow pretty dialed. I was keeping very detailed logs. Like every person, every meal I kept like, I had like a Google sheet going for like all my expenses. Like I knew how much it cost me to do every account, right? And that's what the main guy liked, like, because I could just give him that. And he's like, dude, I don't even keep records this good.

He's like, I'm just going to trust your numbers. And like, so I never, I never, I never, like, I gave him the real numbers, but he like never checked. I was just like, hey, you owe me 27 racks, you know, like, or you owe me 30, whatever, here's that. And you just sent it to me. So I'm in Philly and I have this new driver, this guy working for me. Also a really solid dude. Like I never, I don't know what's up. But he was a, he did the thing for me.

And I'm like, I was like, hey, he wanted to make more money. And like I had him driving for me. And why Philly was significant to me is because like the guy I had driving for me was the first person that wasn't like strung out. Right. You know, like he was like normal, reliable, had a house and a baby and like, you know and so he started asking me a lot of questions that like you're asking me now or like other people were and they were like oh you're going to write a book blah blah blah or like this

is crazy like he called me money man ray you know like he realized that in the moment he realized this is unique this is crazy right and uh and so what we but my at the time i was like you know maybe we should start like documenting some of this you know i was like i know i know i don't want to like, I was like, I'm like, maybe this is federal because we're going to different states. I was like, I don't want to be like, too, I was like, we'll talk to a lawyer first, though, but we should for sure look into this, right? Because I, like, in prison, you watch TV, I was like, I'd seen MTV.

Like, they have, like, those weird, like, people, like, literally be, like, driving around with people selling drugs and shit, you know? And I was like, maybe MTV would be into this, right? Like, like, true, like real life, like. Yeah, true crime. Yeah, whatever, right? And so what we did, we had hell of iPhone. So we bought a bunch of phone mounts for the car.

And we just put four or five phones on record all the time in the car, which is hilarious because, like, we're getting drug addicts in the car, you know? And they're like, what the fuck is I? We're like, don't worry about it, bro. Documenting my fraud, yeah. And it was really, because, like, some of the stories, like, dude, sometimes the crackheads would run off with the money. We'd have to go, it was funny, dude.

Like, really, I chased a guy with a baton one time, like, through Jersey, like, Camden. And like, so some of the stuff was comical and we wanted to have it. And like, the only way to guarantee that we'd get it is that we just record it all the time. Right. And then I was like, we said, we did it for a while. But then I started getting like really paranoid though. Right. I was like, I'm probably just documenting hundreds of felonies.

Like, I was like, this is stupid. But it, we did think about it. And we were going to, at first, I was like, I need to talk to a lawyer before we go pitch it. I was like, but I wanted to have like. like some like edited videos and like a little short to give to MTV to be like is this something you're interested in and like throw it you know because I was like how they like cooking clear and not going to prison either there's got to be a way around it for entertainment value right like nothing ever came with it but we did think about it and we

were recording crackheads for like two months it was it was what happened to that guy so I offered him to come with me when we went to the next city but he couldn't family you know and but i don't know what happened to him like i hope he's doing good like uh we he was living in the hood in kensington in philly when it's not a great place out there he was on the methadone clinic when i got there so like he had a addicted past you know but he like got out of it so i hope he's doing great but like um because he he ended up letting us uh me and james me and dude uh from denver He let us move in with him.

So, like, we were staying there instead of, like, at hotels and stuff. Like, so he was like my friend, you know, like, it was a good deal. I kept hitting him up a couple times, like, in other cities. I'm like, are you sure you don't want to come out? You sure you don't want to come out? You know, because like, like, you said earlier is, like, reliable people are hard. And like, that dude, I could leave him with my car. I could leave him with money.

He never, you never did anything, right? Like, he was there every day to work. He just wanted, he went on a job, you know? My buddy, Zach, used to, would run cruise of guys to cash checks. and stuff. And he said that was a big problem. He's like, some guy was going to make, they were going to cash $90,000 in checks in a day. Send him in the first place. The guy walks out with, you know, $2,500 or, or let's say, three grand, walks out, like, if he could just hold it together for another three hours, he would have 30 grand, but he's got $3,000 in his

hand now. And he'd see Zach, and he'd be like, and just start running. He's like, the what's going on? Like, this guy's about to make $30,000. Yep. And he just took off with three. They just can't, they can't. You can't conceptualize it. Like it was like me and before I had gone to Denver, like the reality that people could like keep a scam together and organize it. And like to a point where they could fly people was not conceivable because I'd never seen it just because like I was a outside of my world experience.

You know? So like that me taking that chance like really opened my eyes to like a lot of things. Right. know um and i remember and uh so by the time i we left philly and uh i come back i go back to uh la um or not back to l a is the first time i've been to l a but that's like home base for these guys right and uh so i move into this loft apartment downtown it's like three thousand in a month we got a pool on the roof like you know huge deck like which is hilarious because in the building we were in, there was, like, there was, like, a B-level actor above us and, like,

a, we were, like, in L.A., you know, like, and there's, like, five of us, you know, boogie crackheads, right, beneath them doing this fraud shit, like, you, like, in a nice fucking spot, you know, like, that was always hilarious to me, um, and this is, like, L.A. was not a good time, like, I made a lot of money, but this is, like, my drug addiction kind it got the better of me, like, by the time I had gotten to L.A., I was, like, significantly used to large amounts of money coming in. Like, I had the hustle down. Like, it was established. But with that, the whole time, every city I was going to, like, I was more dope, more dope, more dope. And I, like, had unlimited money, so I had an unlimited habit. And going from the East Coast,

I was over on the East Coast for, like, six, nine months where I was doing, like, powder brown. And I'm coming back to the West Coast where they have, like, the tar brown, not as strong. Uh, my, my habit was unreal. Like, um, so before where I could like manage it, like it, like it just like some days I would just not work, you know, like I'd just be like getting high the whole time. And, uh, the dude I was working for, he, he was noticing this, right? And it's not like I owed him money or anything. He's just like, yeah, dude, like what do we got to do? Yeah. And I was like, well, I, I, I'm like, bro, I need to, I need to go treatment. Like I like, I got like a problem problem you know like um and he's like what's that like he didn't know anything really about

it i was like well i need to go like get detox i was like this shit's like real gnarly right so we found a treatment center out in long beach and uh he sent me out to treatment there right i go out there i kick the habit like in there i detox like nine 11 days into detoxing um and i just like i left i was like i'm not going to do it you know like so i hop on a bus he had my car you uh you know kept my apartment, whatever, right? So I hop on a bus. I go back downtown, get high, hit him up. I'm like, hey, I'm ready to go to work.

And he's like, aren't you supposed to be in treatment right now? Right. I was like, I just want to work, bro. He's like, okay, dude, I'll send, send dude, right? And so he sends guy over it and, like, I get, I just start going back to work. My mom at the time thought, they misdiagnosed her with lupus, and she calls me. And the combination of that and, like, my drug addiction. and I had like a breakup with a girlfriend at the time.

I like kind of spiraled. I totally went MIA on the crew of guys, right? And I had this really nice apartment, but I was like down on Skid Row just like hanging out on the corner with the South Siders, like selling up, just like reverting to Old Ray, you know? And literally just not going home because I was like doing clear night and then brown day.

And I just like, you know, I was just like my life fell apart. I was like really depressed. And I. ended up, I go back to my apartment. At this point, the guy I'm working for, he's like, kind of just like, not, he's like, all right, Ray's on a bender, like, let's leave him alone, you know? So I got, like, these street drug dealers living with me, like, so I'm like, hey, I got this pimp-ass big spot. Do you want to come stay with me? And you just give me dope every day. And they're like, yeah, dude. So I just let them, like, sell dope and live with my apartment and, like,

you know, keep me high. Um, how long as that last? Not long. I'm, yeah. Yeah, I'm about tell you. So our building, our building, I told you, we have a rooftop pool and, like, amenities and stuff in the basement. There's ping pong tables and, like, pool tables and stuff like that. And we had a doorman, like, a front door guy that, like, whatever, right? So what you do is the doorman had a bunch of pool sticks and, you know, all the stuff that goes to the games and things like that, right?

And we just get them and we go down and play. So me and one of my phone partners, like, who was also just, like, getting high with me, we would just do meth and play ping pong all night and like we got really good like two one pal in each hand just like like Olympic ping pongers and uh so i always left my keys in my apartment and um okay i want just to skip all that uh so i i thought it was really funny when i was on meth to not i wouldn't break into people's houses to steal stuff, but, like, I would rearrange your furniture. Like, like, this like... So my building, square building, inside, uh, they had decks on inside and outside, right?

And we had community decks on ninth floor in the basement. So when I was up playing ping pong with my buddy sometimes, like, or he was gone or whatever, I would go to the community decks. And if you had a love seat and a, like a long couch, I would just invert your deck. So like, I thought it was like, if, like, they woke up and they were, like, having their coffee. They're like, something's off, but I don't know what it is because their shit's reversed. Right.

To me, I thought that was really hilarious. And, like, I wasn't really committing crimes, but, like, that's what I would do to kill my time. I was just, like, on a good one, right? One of those nights, I think I'm leaving because there's, like, an entrance door, and I think I'm leaving. And I went into somebody's house door, right? Like, I opened the door. Dude's like, hey, what are you doing? You know, I was like, oh, my bad, right?

And I closed the door. He thought I was breaking in. I was literally super just inebriated. And so I go up, I go out the right way, go up to my door, past the doorman. And the guy is staying there with the doorman. Like, that's the guy I tried to break in my house. I was like, bro, I live here. You know, I was like, I didn't want to tell him I was on drugs.

I was like, hey, I'm really drunk, dude. Like, I was like, I got the doors mixed up. Like, I really wasn't trying to go on your spot. My bad. The guy's like, okay, so he's like, what in room? I was like, I'm in 416. And he's like, okay, he's like, you got your ID? I was like, no, it's in the room, right?

so he's like okay let's go up there and we'll get your ID and we'll sort this right and he's like I know this guy I see him like every day the dormant's like vouching for me he's like he lives here you know and so we're going up but during that interaction I told the guy that my name was the dude's name who owned the apartment which was my plus like my my main guy so you can't get your ID it doesn't match I have my ID in there but it doesn't match the name I gave him but I realized this halfway up the stairs so I hit the security guard my god and I take off right and I'm like I'm just gonna run away and my I'm really high right so I'm running from this guy and I run into I just start checking doors one of them opens I go through the

apartment this lady's like ah right I run through there I go out to her deck that faces the center I jump off of her deck onto a different one and I go down the stairs from that eighth floor so I I just ran through two apartments right off the deck into someone else's out the other one I'm hiding in the basement I hear the cops come right I like I wait for them to pass where I am in the basement and then I go to the leasing office and the leasing office is in the basement floor too and I go in there and it's unlocked so I go in there and I lock it and I'm like cool I'm just going to chill here till like they leave right I'm really high I've been up for like a week right right I forget that like I'm hiding from the cops and I rearrange the leasing office I'm a junkie bro like thorough bread. gutter junkie. I just happen to be really smart and I had a nice fraud like for a while. So I turn the pictures upside down, shit like that, you know, like I change all the keys because I found the master keybox with all the units on her. I change all the tags on them.

Like just smoke or shit. The cops figure, they meet with, I hear her, the leasing manager and the cops outside the door. I'm like, and I'm trying to hide. And there's nowhere really to hide. And she's like, I didn't lock this. And so they're trying to get in. I'm like, so I'm fighting with LAPD. LAPD kicks the door down. They beanbag me. Like, that's all I really remember of the interaction with them. I woke up in L.A. County jailed, like, hospital unit, like, handcuffed to the bed.

And I didn't give them my name. So they were, like, waiting my name. Like, I'm not giving me my name. And they, I saw they had me, long story short. I'll cut that one. I got two home invasions, so I go to court, I meet with my lawyer, and mind you, by this time, I've been to prison twice, I've been through the system a lot. Like, I've just spent, like, the last 18 months, like, bailing out, and, like, I think I'm good. So I was like, my dude's going to bail me out.

It's not a big deal, right? So I meet with the attorney, and I'm like, he's like, okay, so he's like, you got one thing going for you. And I was like, what's that? He's like, you don't have a record. I was like in my head I was like that is good I was like correct and I was like so what am I looking at he's like well you got assault one officer I was like a salt loan officer and he's like yeah you like this cop had to get nine stitches on his thumb you like you almost bit his thumb off I was fuck and like I got a commercial burglary for breaking into the leasing office in the commission of a felony

I got two home invasions for running through the apartments in the commission of a felony so like not a home invasion, but that's how the law was written. So he's like, you got two home invasions, assault, one, an officer, and a commercial bird. He's like, I was like, well, what kind of time am I looking at? He's like, you're looking at like 10. Oh. So I was like, okay, I was like, why don't, we're at my arraignment, right? So I'm like, why don't you go ask the prosecutor right now, like what kind of deal he's talking about, right?

He's like, it's your arraignment. Like, I was like, I don't care. Tell him, I'll plead guilty today. We can save everybody a whole bunch of time. What's his offer, right? Because I know I got strikes in Washington. Right. They don't know that.

Oh, you're waiting. You want to beat it before they figure out. Yes. Yeah. So, like, I'm like, tell me, like, what they're working with. So he's like, okay, they'll drop the assault one in the officer. If you take the two strikes for the home invasions and the commercial burg, you'll do nine years. They'll send you upstate in California, L.A., you do your county time up to 10 years in the county.

Oh, that sucks. Unless it's a violent offense, then they send you up. So they want me to go upstate for nine years, right? But in California, they can give you two strikes at one time. Washington, they only give you one. You can commit 20 strikeable offenses in the same run, and they can only sentence you to one strike at a time. California, they can give you two at a time, right?

And they didn't do an NCIC, so they didn't know that, like, I had a strikeable offense, but I knew from, if I get sentenced, before they send me off, they're going to do an NCIC to make sure my points line up for the sentencing guidelines, right? So I cannot take that deal because that's two strikes and already have one. I was like, if I take it, I'll be striking myself out. Yeah, you'll be like a life. Just get a life sentence.

Yeah. Yeah. So I can't. So I said no. I was like, cool. I'm not signing no continuances. I want my speedy trial. So I didn't sign a continuance or nothing.

I was like, not guilty. I didn't do it, right? I think I'm cooked. But I'm so like I whole L.A. County could be a whole book on itself. It's a, I've been to close custody in Washington.

I've done all kinds of time in a lot of places. L.A. County is rough. Like I would not recommend it for anyone. But so I get, so in L. County is so overpopulated by the time you get to court often they don't have enough time on the docket to like see everybody so you get turned around they call it a turnaround right that's what

the you know inmates call it uh it's really common so they load you up on a chain bus at 2 a m to go to go to the court and like so you get it on a chain bus you go down to the court building hopefully you get seen if you don't you get back on the chain you go back and they do it again the next day that happened to me three times three times in a row and I was like Jesus dude like this is super annoying uh on the fourth one same thing nothing right and i go to elevator they go back down to the chain bus and they let me out but it's a different floor and i'm like i've seen enough cops beat people's asses in here i'm like i'm like la county jail they're not like fat cops like these guys are doing steroids and like i'm like yo this is a fender how like

i'm on the wrong floor like i don't want to come out of elevator they're like come around the corner. I was like, are you sure? And they're like, yeah. So I come around and I see the outside and I like see the street. I'm like, something's gone wrong. Yeah. I'm like, dude, I'm gonna run, dude. Like, right? And so I'm up at the, I go up to the window. I was like, what's up? He's like, oh, is this your name? Blah, blah, blah. He shows me a thing. I was like, yeah. And he's like, I'm like, I'm like, oh, we're doing the, we're doing an NCIC or whatever. You're getting released. I was like, they fuck something up. No, I'm not. Not if you did it to do an NCIC. I'm not. Well, no, they, they, the NCIC is just a background, national crime investigation, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, no, I know, but I thought right then they would see the strikes and be like, oh, this changes, that might change their situation. They're releasing me, though. Yeah, so I think they f*** something up, right? So I'm sitting there in the tank and I'm sweating, bro, like sweating, like what is happening? I'm literally, sorry, how long have you been locked up at this point? Just a few days? No, months. Oh, months.

Yeah, 90 days. Okay. Because it was just over three months because I'm 90-day speedy trial. right. I don't have contact with my attorney. It's so overcrowded. I have a public defender. Like, I've never talked to my attorney one time after the arraignment, right? Like, I have no idea what's happening. I've just been inside doing time, waiting. Like, this is the craziest. I was familiar with Washington system, which at least I could have, like, contact. It was just so overrun and, like, disorganized down there that, like, I don't, I don't know what it expects, right? So I don't

know what's happening. I sit in a tank for nine hours when they let me go. And they let me go. Oh, release me. And so I don't have clothes, nothing, right? Because, like, I fought the cops, and, like, my shit was all fucked up. So I have the L.A. County jumpsuit on with the little slides. They look like vans. And I hit the first pay phone outside of the jail, and I call my attorney, right? I was like, what is happening?

He's like, dude, they were doing your jury. I mean, they were setting you up for your, the omnibus or whatever, where they, like, send you the, whatever, the, like, case facts. No, not during, they couldn't get the witnesses there. So they subpoenaed the cop, they subpoenaed the victims and the leasing office, and they didn't show up to court three days in a row. Like, they'd already done everything, but the victims didn't show up. So they had to release me and dismiss it. So, like, I literally lucked out. Like, I did that shit.

Like, it wasn't a home invasion, but, like, I could totally be convicted. Oh, yeah. They don't want to give a shit. They'll send you for nine years. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I did that shit, right? Yeah.

So I peer luck. The cop didn't show up to court. The people didn't show court. The people didn't show court. And I got out. Right. So I'm like, I'm literally crying because like I've been talking to my girl I was like it's over I'm going

I'm going for a minute you know right um so I call my guy I'm like hey man I'm out because he couldn't bail me out because they they put me it wasn't they initially had me on like 50,000 and they raised it up with the assault on the officer right so he's like I can't bill you out bro like he's like he's like and you haven't been working and you're a junkie and I can't you know I can't dump that You may go straight. You may just fuck me and walk off. Like, I was fine. Like, I wasn't mad at him.

Right. But he was not expecting to see me again, right? So I call him and he's like, what happened? I was like, your guest is as good as mine, dude. And he sent me out to Vegas. Oh, my God. Back on the fraud wagon. Hell yeah.

And I'm like 180 pounds now. You know, I've been fed for three months. Yeah. Well, you're all in your, you're clean. You're level-headed. You're ready to go. For about three days. Oh, fuck.

So back on my bullshit. but business as usual. Las Vegas actually sucked for the scam. Like it was profitable for maybe like three or four weeks. Like we just sometimes some cities for whatever reason the stores just catch on really quick or they don't have a really great population to pull from. Like so it was like just whatever if we couldn't get enough phones rolling, we would just go to the next spot. So we go to the next spot.

We went to Salt Lake City, Utah after that. and there me and the original guy that pulled me were like on the same level right me and him go out there me and him were always fighting it was like I think it's just like an ego thing

we're just like you know I was like he's like you're junkie I was like I make more money than you like you know and we just always at each other there's like competition for like favor from the main guy or whatever right we got in another fight

I tried to take his car he got away with the car and then I didn't have anything and then dude who I was working for the main guy was like done he was like I'm like bro this this shit's insane you know like you just got out of jail like all this stuff's my like and so I was like whatever I don't need you so I started doing I started from scratch so what I did is I set up a buyer first and then I posted a Craigslist ad and was like hey if you want to make 150 bucks like on the job postings I was like call this number and I had a one of the burner phones.

I just had people calling me. Right. And I'd be like, hey, come meet me here. I had these first couple people pick me up and drive me to the store. I had zero dollars. And we would get the phones, the zero ones down. I had the buyer ready to go. I would have them drive me to the buyer.

I would sell them, pay them their 150 from that first sale. Take the difference. Take the difference. And now I had money to buy the $200 iPhone when people got, you know? What a pain in the ass, right? But I made it happen. Yeah. Like, so I got my own little crew going again, right?

And so I stay in Salt Lake City for like two months doing this. So it's all I say is really good, like, just like, I don't know, it's the Mormon population. I was going to say the Mormons are very trusting. Yeah, yeah. And dude, the cities are clean. We had a bet going. Like, we're like, all right, the first person to see a piece of litter out here gets a hundred bucks. Like, because the schools come out like 10 a.m.

And they clean up the streets. It was wild. But, uh, yeah, I had a good time. But I kind of at a certain point, I was like, am I just going to stay in Salt Lake City or like, I kind of wanted to go home. You know, like, I haven't been to Washington and forever, you know? So I was like, I'm just going to go back. So I posted, I didn't, it's funny, this is the drug addict in me at this time. I'm making all this money, like, same in L.A.

Like, I have, I have this really nice apartment. I have this money coming in. My dumb ass would, like, get arrested for some smoker shit or like. I hate to interrupt the podcast, but I need your help. Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have, please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests. that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd.

The last video we did actually got a million views. If you've been arrested, please go in the description box, either contact me directly, my email's there, or you can fill out the form that we've got. There's a link to the form, my email address is there, you fill out the form, or email me. We will contact you, and we're going to try and get you on the program. I would get in a fight on the street with some random guy and get,

you know, like dumb shit. That was literally just the cause from the drugs. You know, like if I, I think about it all the time. Like, if I had not been high, I probably could have owned a house, you know, like in that, you know, like just outright. But so I don't know how I'm going to get home. So I post the ad. I was like, I'm going to get home for a free. So I post the ad on Craigslist on the ride share.

I was like, hey, I didn't go to Washington. This chick answers it. We go meet up. And my head, I'm a dirtbag criminal, right? Like I look presentable, you know, like I have decent clothes on, you know, shit like that. But like, I know me. And this chick, we meet up at the mall for the ride chair or whatever, right? And I'm like, dude, she's just a square.

She pulls up in a beamer like five series, right? And she's like, this really cute blonde girl, right? And I was like, I don't want to bring my mess into her life, you know? Right. So I was like, I appreciate it. Like, thanks for the offer. Like, I'm not going to take this ride. And she's like, no, no, it's fine.

And blah. I was like, I do drugs. I'll be straight up with you. Like, I do drugs. She's like, that's cool. I was like, she's like, just don't do them in the car. I was like, all right. So I get in the car.

She said she did drugs. She pulled out a gallon Ziploc bag of blunts like pre-rolled. And we start smoking, and we're driving back. I told her I wouldn't get high in the car, but I was totally getting high like at every rest stop. Right. So we get home.

Like not all the way to Washington. She tells me that she's. She was in Salt Lake City to make a pickup, right? And she was driving it back to Washington, right? So my- To make a pickup for what? Meth. Like, and I was like, in my head, I'm like, she picked me up.

Yeah, yeah. I'm the fall guy. Right. Like, I was like, that's why she was like, oh, cool, whatever. I don't care what you're doing. She gets pulled over by states. She's like, this is the dude, the meth in the trunk is. She just told me this shit, right?

I was like, well, like, how much, right? She's like, a lot. I was like, I don't know. The guy just sent me out here to pick up. it up. And so in my head, I'm like, I'm going to rob this. Right. So I tell her about my phone gig. I saw like, we're just like, okay, let's like clear the air. Like we're both, hell of criminals, right? And so I was like, she drops me off and like, I'm kind of crushed on her. She's fine, right? Like, and so she drops me off in Bellevue. And I want to see her again, right?

And I want to rob her. I want to know who her plug is. I want, yeah, I want to know who her plug is so I can rob her, right? But also I was like, she's hot. Like, I'm trying to smash, too, right? And so I was like, hey, we should network, like, blah, blah, blah. I was like, so she gave me her number. I texted her. I didn't hear nothing from her. She hit me up in a couple of days.

We started, like, she started, like, showing up. I was like, well, how much dope you got, blah, blah, blah, you know, right? And then she would show me what she had. And I would take it. And I would like, she didn't have any connects in Washington. She was not from there. So I would just, like, help her sell someone to shit, right? It wasn't a lot, but it kept getting more.

she had lots all kinds of stuff right she had a like the pill packs like the oxies in the pill packs from the pharmaceutical things like she had things of ketamine like big old bags of dope like it seemed like out on the supply she didn't know shit about drugs so I'm like what is going on here right so are you going to rob this girl that's that's the plan but then I started crushing on her we start doing a little business right and like I'm I like her right like and uh again like the guys I've been working for. This was like another clean cut person that had their shit together. It had a nice beamer.

And like, you know, I like, I kind of, I was like, this is a successful person I want to keep around in this circle, right? But it is amazing how many people in your circle have, have dodged being robbed, how close they came to being robbed. I mean, I've robbed a lot of people in the meantime, you know, like, in between. It's just like, I'm not, I know this about myself. Like, it was like, identified it early with why, why robbed the. hand that feeds.

Yeah, yeah. This is a way more, like, I told my dude from the feds in the beginning before we robbed the guy, we went to Denver. I was like, we're making so much money. Like, he might have 20, 30 racks on it. We can make that in, like, three weeks if, like, we just keep doing this. Yeah, there's just stupidity at this point. Yeah, it didn't make any sense.

Like, and like you said, people will run off with the three grand when they had the 30, like, but, and so, I don't know, I like the long game. Yeah. But, uh, which is weird because, like, I'm a, like I said, thoroughbred junkie. And like, I could always put it off. I was pretty successful, I think, at keeping the habit going. So I'm hip now to like, I've been across the country. I've been to like, you know, 20 states doing this, you know.

And so through messing with her, we, like, we'd be hanging out. Sometimes we would just go on drives and, like, go to all these different places, right? We go to dollar stores and we buy a bunch of padded envelopes. And like, I'm like, something is up with what she's doing. I don't know what it is, right? but I know there's a scam going on, right? So, like, I'm, like, paying attention to it. And I just straight up ask her one time, like, what she's doing.

I was like, what's up with the envelopes? Why do we keep going to all these post offices? Like, you know, like, and she said, she told me, are you familiar with, like, the Silk Road, like the dark web? Like, yeah. You were people were buying dope on there or whatever. They were selling dope on there, right? And so, like, her job was to go get the envelopes

and get the dope and then mail it, right? And, like, I was like, oh, cool. And she was funneling dope off the side, drugs off the side and having me sell him because she was stealing him from the guy that, like, had all this stuff, right? So, again, I'm, like, my gears are turning. I want to rob that guy, right?

Luckily for me, because me and my buddy, we had it all set up. We had vests and everything. Like, I knew where a dude live. Like, we were going to go kick his door down. Like, swat, get him, right? and literally the week we were going to do it, the feds cracked him.

And so they had already been watching him for a minute. So it was funny. I was like, thank you, Jesus. Because like, if I wouldn't kick that dude's door down, the small rifle. Cops would have you on film. Yeah, they would have me like right there, right? So they go, they get cracked.

And then I'm out of a hustle, right? I haven't been doing the phone things. I've been doing the drug thing with her. And I don't have the phone things. I stopped doing the phone thing. I very shortly I waited a little bit and I hit dude up

my main phone guy and I was like hey man like I know it's been a while Hey buddy yeah and he's like he's like all right man he's like we can do this again

he's like dude but you gotta go to Philly and I was like cool I love Philly dude right so he sent me out to Philly I'm not in Philly like two weeks my mom calls me me and my mom aren't really like super tight right and she's like hey you got filed on like you got new charges here they came with the house or whatever.

It was from King County. I was like, for what? She says robberies. I was like, I already went to prison for that. Right. You know? And I was like, when's the court day? And she told me and I was like, okay, I'll fly home.

I was like, can I crash with you while I do this court thing? You know? And she's like, yeah. So I fly back. I go to court. I like bring a bunch of drugs in with me. I'm ready to go to jail, right? Like I was like, whatever.

I'll just like deal with this. They don't. It was a robbery from that same string, the first ones. Right. And mind you, now it's been almost three years, right? It was two years, 11 months. So it was a month away from the statute of limitations for robbery in Washington, right? Right.

And they filed on me for one single robbery, like in North Seattle, right? And my lawyer, he's like, hey, Ray already had a global resolution. You guys said that you were wrapping this all up with the last ones. Like, he's like, this is like almost a sad. This is like malicious prosecution. He's like, you shouldn't be able to bring this stuff up when Ray's already, you know, pled guilty to it, blah, blah, blah, all the things. You guys should have filed that with the other ones because it wasn't a new.

county or anything like that. It was just like an additional one. And the judge was like, yeah, you're right. He's like, I don't, this doesn't really make sense. He's like, I'll PR you. Like on, he gave me a no bail like bail, right? And he's like, we'll figure out what's going on because he's like, I don't really agree with this. So he sent me, he pushed out my court date, like two weeks and I gave me a new court date. I wasn't expecting to be there that long. I thought I was just going to like bail out, go back to Philly. So I have my mom. Can I crash here? She says, yeah, my drug addict ass, like I'm not doing the phone thing. and I have two weeks to kill, so I'm like, I'm just going to get high, right?

I get super high, and I'm like on a good one for like three, four days. I don't want to go back to my mom's house off. I'm kind of fucked up. You know, I've been out there for a couple days. So I slide through the mall to go get a new change, you know, change my clothes before I go home. I put a new outfit on. I walk out the mall. The security guard tries to grab me, and you don't grab a tweaker that's been up for like a week.

You know, I, like, socked him. I like turn around like, bam. him, right? And I run away. They tackle me. They want handcuff on. I run away again. They bring me in. I'm walking through the aisle. They're walking me through the aisle like that, right? I jump over the clothes rack. I do like a roll and I go down an escalator. And I'm running through the mall with the handcuffs on. And they tackle me again. And I headbutt one of them. And they just end up standing on me. They just like put their boot down on my face. And I just like literally stand on me until the cops get there.

What I don't realize is that I just turned a misdemeanor theft charge into a robbery by hitting the security guard. So, like, I'm on bail for two weeks, and so they take me back. I go into court. I go for your first thing. I asked my attorney, I was like, hey, can you ask for a bail reduction? Because they had my bail on $150,000, right? I was like, I can't make $150,000.

But, like, if you get it reduced, I could probably bail out, right? And so we go in for the bail reduction, and the judge is the same one that let me out. He goes, Mr. Howard, do you remember me? I was like, no. He's like, I remember you. He said, you were in here on a Rob 1, and I PR'd you, and you caught a brand new robbery but he's like I'm not reducing your bail I'm raising it so he raised it to 250,000 I was like I was like your honor if you don't let me out I can't come back and he's like get the

out of my courtroom and so I ended up doing three years on that I fought it I put it down to a theft one and assault um so I ended up doing three on that and when I got out that time I mean yeah there's like all the good stuff's done all the juicy stuff you want to know the rest like yeah just wrap i mean you know you can like how'd you you get your shit together so i got my shit together so like the three years at this point i'm i'm like i don't know like i've moved above mentally and the like the little i keep getting caught up on the stupid street hustle bullshit you know but like i know how to do scams but right right so like i'm like i'm not going to do that if i go back to it i'm going to

like do it right like do these things do it right yeah that's my that's my thing right i've not been able to do it right for like 10 years but i'm like i'm gonna do it better this time this you know if i just do brown there's days but uh so i make it the work release i stay out of trouble in prison this time i make it the work release uh my girlfriend comes to see me she's like hey man that phone shit you were doing like that was really sick like i'm trying to get on i was like i got you i'll put you on as soon as i'm out of here i was like you just can't be doing dope i's like i'm not going to be doing drugs this time the drug keep me up i was like if i wasn't high like i'd definitely be winning i was on high i'd be a millionaire right for sure off this fraud dude just tell me that shit all the time he's like dude

i've paid you so much money like like what are you doing right uh so she come she comes to see me she leaves she overdoses and dies that night like oh she had just got out of jail she came to see me at work release we were gonna she's gonna check me out for a weekend like visit and uh she overdosed and died i'm sorry yeah it was it was it was was rough um that that hit me really hard and uh i left work release on my next visit and i got drunk at the bar and i was just kind of like whatever you know like i i just let it you know i started making bad decisions i somehow managed to stay out long enough that when i came back i blew a point zero zero eight a zero eight like nothing right so i denied it i was like i wasn't drinking you know

and i just rode that didn't get kicked out i stayed but what that did is it started like my addiction all over again, you know? So like I started doing some boxings because you couldn't piss dirty for those when I was in work release. And when I got out, I made it four days and I was doing dope. And then within five weeks, uh, I was, I had a pistol and I was robbing people. And like, I ended up, I had to, this dude set my current girlfriend up. So I went over there. I beat him with the bat in his front yard, like, you know, serve some street justice. I grew up with the guy, right? Like, I felt really bad about that. Like, like, I, like, like, I had a little bit of conscious, you know, I hadn't been, like, doing drugs for too long.

And I remember sitting in the car after we were leaving, me and my chick, I brought her out to do it. And we were leaving. I threw the piece out in there, and I was sitting there. I'm like, dude, I ain't been out five weeks. And I'm already, like, committing, like, class A felonies. You know, I was like, this is a, I started, like, seeing the pattern. Right. I was like, this is not sustainable.

So I called my probation officer the next day. I was like, hey, man, like, I'm not. doing great. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, I'm committing hell with felonies, bro. He's like, what? I was like, I'm not going to tell you what. I was like, I'm getting high. I was like, what you need to do is put me in jail, like violate me, right? And he's like, what? I was like, if you don't send me to jail, I'm going to catch some like charges and like go back. I want, I want to stop. He's like, well, I can't send you to jail because you haven't had any violations yet. So in Washington, they do

swift and certain. So you get like a warning and then you do five days and you do 10 days, whatever, right? He's like, so I can give you to warning. He said, but do you want to go to treatment? I was like, yeah, he's like, we'll send you to treatment. I go to treatment. I bring some Suboxins with me because I'm strung out on Brown. Like, I'm going to kick it. They find the Suboxins on me. And Lewis County's a little podunk town. Seattle, they would have, even like a gram and Brown would have just like thrown it out back in the day. They're like whatever. They don't care. Lewis County was, they charged me with a felony for possession for having that. It's not even a narcotic. And so with my points at the time, I had eight felony

points. My range was 12 to 24 months. I pled out. I was only in county for like three weeks. I told a prosecutor I was like I'll just do my time like I'm not even going to fight this like you just send me back to prison like I need a break you know so I pled out to 12 months the low end the judge tried to give me 24 he gave me uh the prosecutor I was like not dude I'll revoke my deal like you know as I agreed to 12 and uh so I do my 12 months during that time uh like I go to I go into the processing I end up in the hole in Shelton like processing in prison system and I I'm in the same wholesale that I was in the prior bid, like, for going, you know, I got an assault. I did a program or whatever.

And I was sitting in here on an investigation for an extortion, like on the prison yard, right? And I'm sitting in there. And that for me is like when I was like, maybe I don't got me, you know? Like this whole time I've been thinking like I had my life, you know, I was like, but I'm sitting in D203 and I was just here two and a half years ago. And I was like, this, something's got to change, you know? like um so i got out i got out at a hole that time i went to mainline and i was like i'm gonna stay out of stuff enough that like i don't i'm not gonna be involved in the drug

trade anymore like i'm still do what i got to to like maintain my seat or whatever but like if you want to do drugs i do it on a yard don't bring it to my house i'll beat your ass you know like i got drew a really hard line on drugs and uh i started going to the drug classes for the first time like you know like before that i was like you doc i'm not doing nothing you know right And then this time, so I went to classes. When I was in the drug classes, there's this nonprofit that, in Washington, called the Post-Prisin Education Project, started by an ex-federal guy. He was also in for some, like, fraud, stuff like that. Ari Cohn, he's passed now.

But he started this nonprofit that signed us. If you wrote him a letter, him and the people as nonprofit would sign you up for the FAFSA and get you enrolled in a local college to where you were releasing before. you got out. So I did that. And I was, ninth grade dropout. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I was like, but you do do have your GED. I had my GED. So you didn't have to start over from scratch. Like, you didn't have to go get your GED before you could go in. That's why I was in the drug classes. Because in Washington State, if you don't have your GED, they make you do your GED while you're in prison. So most people just slow poke their GED so they don't have to do drug

classes. So I had to do the drug classes, right? But because I had my GED, I was like, maybe I'd just go to school, right? So I go out in a yard. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm going to go college, right? You're saying, like, the people you've seen come in and out. Right. My homie awesome was like, okay, bro. He's like, I see you three or three times since I've been down. He's like, you ain't doing shit.

Like, I'll see when you come back, right? And that shit, like, really hurt my feelings, you know, but I was like, but also, I was like, he's not wrong. He's not wrong. I was like, I did that shit. Like, you know, I was like, on paper, I don't have anything to show that, like, I'm going to do anything different than I was last time. So I was like, I'm just get out and do it, you know? And I got out, and I didn't, I don't know if you've ever, if you're exposed anything in like a recovery circles, but if they, like in 12-step meetings, they say if you're in an institution, whether that be treatment or prison or jail or whatever, if you go to a 12-step meeting, like the day you get out, you have like a 50% chance better staying clean, right? That's just like some arbitrary statistic they made up.

Right. But it's like one of those cliche sayings. I applied that to school. So like the day I got, they released me at the bus station in Everett. prison sweatsuit. I had my chain bag with 12 bucks, you know, like literally nothing to my name. Like nobody would pick up my phone calls at this time. It just like I, you know, I was a mess. It burned all the bridges. Everything. Burnt everything. So I walked my ass from the Everett bus station to the Everett Community College in my prison suit goes, I use their welcome computer

and I sign up for classes, right? And they start, they have me enrolled for like six months out, right? And I left there and I went to an N-A meeting and I like shared all. honestly for like the first time and was like really vulnerable about what had been going on and like I don't know just like I started going to meetings every day six months rolled around um I shut up to school I spent the first year like like convinced they were going to escort me off property you know because I was like there's no way like you know like if they knew who I was they'd let me be here I used I'd go to colleges before but there's to steal textbooks and sell them you know like right i don't know what time i ever been to school is like you guys over like

go to a high school party to get you guys to do it brown know like that was it uh so like it was terrified of like they would find out about my past and um but i was bored one day and i didn't want to do my homework and i was just browsing the internet and i saw my community college had a scholarship link um like it was like you apply to this general scholarship and the they'll send in whatever. And the answers, I didn't proofread my essays or nothing.

I just, like, wrote them straight into the text box and I told them, like, everything I just told you, basically, like about my upbringing.

I gave him a condensed version of, like, the crime period. And like, I told him about being in prison, like, how I got the papers. I sent it off,

didn't think anything of it. But that was the first time I, like, told normal people, like, what's been going on in my life, right? So they called me,

and they were like, this shit, crazy. They're like, and they're like, can you come into our office and talk to us? And like, so they want to talk to me. And they were, they were just like, we're blown away by your story. Like, like, it, and so they gave me a scholarship. And they asked me to speak at the, because at this point, I've been there for like three or four quarters. And I was four a student, like, which is, was crazy to me. Because like, I just start in like pre high school math. Like, yeah, I was, to me, I thought I was stupid, right? And then, um, I wanted to be a

nutritionists. And I was like, okay, I have a little experience in the fitness industry, but trainers don't make shit. I was like, if I'm a nutritionist, I could work at a hospital, still be in the fitness industry, but actually make a salary, right? So, and I was like, I won't have to do any math. So I get through algebra one, cool, done, right? Don't got to do that. But I have to take chemistry, the chemistry series for to be a nutritionist. And when I was in the chemistry series, the chemistry professor noticed that I was really good at like at chemistry and that I was building motorcycles because, like, I was paying for myself. So I was, like, still hustling.

Right. So I got out. I was like, I can't commit crimes or they'll send me back. So what I did was I would, I would go to tow yards, buy cars from the auctions after people got their shit impounded or whatever. And then I'd teach myself how to fix them on YouTube and then flip them. That way, I didn't have to have a job. Right.

So, like, I just still making cash on the weekends. And I did that. But I forget where I was going. but they gave you a scholarship they said you said they've said it was it was you know the chemistry professor yes uh he so I had the sick ass chopper I built the 78 excess 650 which is like a very cult classic like you know a cruiser motorcycle it's like that the Suzuki Savage and the Harley Sportsster are like the top three for like hardtail bobber builds right so I built one with the excess 650 and I brought it to school

and he was like why are you not doing engineering and I was like what the engineering I've literally never heard engineering, right? He's like, you know, you can like get paid to make vehicles, right? I was like, for real? He's like, yeah. And he told me about Formula Motorsports, which was an engineering club that makes like F1 cars at colleges. And they race them like in Germany. And like, it's a competitive student organization, right?

So I found out about that. And I was like, oh, I got to do that. That's sick. But you have to be an engineering student. And I was like, I got to take all the math. So I switched majors. I started taking the math. And I found out I was stupid good at math.

Yeah, because you're four points. student, I don't know why you wouldn't be good at math also. Yeah, so like I literally 4-0ed everything. I was like in honors calculus, the whole series. And this was all news to me, you know, I was like, I'm literally from the day. Like, so I end up get, I switch majors. I'm in engineering. I have this whole goal.

I was like, I looked at schools. I wanted to go to Berkeley. I want to go to UW, UW in Washington because they had the number two formula team in the country, right? And I was like, I want to get on that team. my chemistry professor when I got closer to graduating with my associates by this time I've been a tutor at the college I'm like a like literally the poster boy for Everett community college they have me on their ads like my faces all over to school I work in a tutoring center that I've get in every scholarship I started working with the Everett city council to pass the fair chance housing bill because Seattle changed their laws so that they couldn't discriminate against people because my record I know I own a house now I've never ran an apartment of my name I can't I'm a violent felon Like, I literally get denying on everything. Seattle changed that a couple years ago, and what they did is in their legislation, in their bill that they passed to, so you can discriminate, they treat it like

a protected class for criminal records, right? Except for arson and, like, sex crimes. Those two are excluded still, but everything else is good to go. They can't say no, you can't rent. So, but what they did is in their bill, they cited all the studies that show that it's like, if you make it four years out, you're just as likely to commit a felony as the Joe Schmo. Like, like, there's never, there's no correlation between, a criminal record and people's like being a tenant like those things aren't related at all and so i took

that and i was trying to pass it in everett snowmish county's like way more republican than seattle so it's like they're not going for it but i tried to push it i got uh the president's award for working on that like they nominated me from the school all the public community colleges and i won that award for that work and then between that and the scholarship stuff and the tutoring um mark the chemistry professor he nominated me for this uh full ride scholarship to ub um is for transfer students with community impact and uh i started i applied to that and i i had multiple rounds of interviews and i got it and it was $41,000 a three full years paid at uh ub and then my last year at community college they footed the bill so i got a full ride from them for the martin scholarship and when i was at

Udub I continue at this point by the time I transferred to Udub which is number four or three research university in the country it's like Ivy League public school for medical stuff for engineering it's like ranked 40th it's not like top but they do have the best formula club which was my goal right right day one I'm like yo I want on this car club and I was like here's all my stuff and they were like yeah Absolutely. So I got on the car club. COVID happens. So the only time we can go to school is for the car club. So we're in the pit. That's what we called it, the mechanic shop, working on his cars the whole time. And then they compete nationally and then internationally. But because of COVID, the only state that would let us compete was Vegas. Vegas didn't care about the COVID regulations. They kept their speedway open. So we competed there. But they did have the people restrictions. So they're only allowed nine people in. So the team leaders went. I wasn't a team leader at the time. So I wasn't going to be able to go in. I would just have to be support outside the stadium. I'm a good criminal though. So I printed my resume and I snuck in to pass the COVID people. Right. And there's a bunch

of recruiters there for like Tesla and SpaceX and the boring company and all that. And I got my resume out to the one of the to all of them. I ended up land an internship at SpaceX in L.A. as a fluids engineer and I did that twice at SpaceX in LA nice which is also it was crazy to me I remember flying down there the first time and they're paying my relocation and everything right I was like I like not like four years ago I was sitting in a six by nine with a ninth grade education like you know like nobody right I'm like literally getting actually paid to fly down to the number one engineering firm in the world to like what like it was insane to me right um and so i did that killed it they brought me back killed that i was like that's my life by this time

um my wife and i we had bought a house uh i had two kids um we did this all during school or whatever uh so i was like i'm gonna work it out uh SpaceX that's like the new trajectory um which to tie back to like the other stuff is like that I told you I was trying to put all my friends on like when they got out of prison with the phone scam right and so I'm still in like heavy I was like affiliated prison gang all that shit right like the whole time I was in there and so like I'm still in contact with a lot of these guys I mean there was a point when I got out this most recent time I got released in 2016 um right I was still selling I was still sending dope into the joint you know like I was and I was like after I've been out for like a year like I was like dude I was like

this don't feel good you know yeah yeah Um, so I, I had to cut that off. I lost a lot of my friends through that, but whatever, you know, as I did, it's not a loss. But, uh, I'm still in contact with a lot of guys. And then because of my success at every community college and because I was on probation for so long, because I was a violent felony, uh, violent off, uh, violent offender. Um, I worked a lot with the DOC and my buddies and like, I was like kind of respected in like the DOC circle, you know, like, hey, this is a, this is a total off that like turned

a shit around, you know, like, um, so they got like my buddies would call me and I, and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm in L.A. working at SpaceX, you know? Like, the fuck out of here. Yeah, they're, like, reading my article. They're like, it was really cool. It went from like, oh, I'll see you. You come back next time to be like, dude, I saw that article in you. Like, you're like literally met astronauts and shit.

You know, it's like, is wild. And so. That shit was, I'm sorry. I was going to say the other day, like, Jess and I were looking at that they had launched big heavy, right? And it came back down and it landed on it. And I mean, Jess and I were just, watching it on yeah they caught it first time yeah it was like do you have any idea they just

caught a 10 story building like this is in this is this is this is insane like this is star this is like like i'm sorry to think we will see mars in our lifetime yeah that i that i was like this is some insane shit right now that i never thought would would really would happen you know what i'm saying like this is over the top which i was at dude I remember working out, I was a line cook, like, during college, like, I cut whatever jobs I could, right? Yeah. I remember asking for a raise and a guy was like, you're feeling dudes. Right.

You know, and I'm working at SpaceX. Right. Like, you, it's, it was, I thought for sure I wouldn't get it, you know, I'd been denied at Boeing, like, all these places. I just like, I was sure my record would keep me. SpaceX let me work there. They have a very, like, I found in tech, and I try and I preach this a lot, STEM is really important. and especially for people that are justice impacted. We don't work with the public.

Like, I work on my computer and I do design work all the time. Like, they don't care. Like, are you good at the technical skill that we're here to hire you for? If that's it, then I can work at the Elon companies without a degree. Yeah, I was going to say, I think that's Elon Musk in general.

Like, can you do the job? Like, that's all I give a shit about. Like, you've got to be able to perform. And it's about performance-based, and that's it. But I was thinking the... It's funny because when they first went, remember, what was, I forget, whatever, the boosters, when it, the first time. Falcon 9 is their main single one, but they had Falcon 1, which it launched three times, and then Elon, like, took a loan and it successfully on the fourth one. And that's started SpaceX.

Well, I mean, the one that's landing on its own. Yeah, Falcon 9. Yeah, yeah, the one when it first came down, boom, crashes, comes down again, crashes, comes down on our green, I'm saying. And then it lands, and I thought, you know what? Have you, have you been to Kennedy to see him? No. You should. I'm so jealous of living down here.

I saw one at Cape Canaveral in California. I would love to. Is Cape Canaveral around here? Vandenberg is where I went. Well, I mean, to me, I remember thinking of myself, well, you know, it's going to have what, like, they're probably going to be able to land one out of every, you know, like maybe they'll two out of three, but they're going to continue to crash.

And now it's, it's just every, it's 13, 14 runs. Yeah, it's just like, oh, no, no, it's done. It's a done deal. Yeah. Like, unless there's a malfunction malfunction, and there hasn't been, like, we're literally going to launch these random launch them. Like, it's a huge deal for, like, not only, like, our country, but, like, for, like, the industry is, it saves massive amounts of money, which makes it way more accessible.

That's why we'll see advances in our lifetime, you know? Yeah. Oh, Jess and I watched the whole thing. Listen, I've watched 10 videos. I could talk all day about going to Mars. Like, I watched the inspiration for the, where SpaceX sent the four civilians up. It's on Netflix. It's a little, like, three or four part mini series.

No, because I watch most of the stuff that's just kind of like on YouTube. Got it. So, you know, but so I've watched more like people talking about what the plan is, how they're going to use, how they're going to use, how they're going to use, oh, shoot, what is the name of the, yeah, not big heavy, but what it, it launched. Starship. They're going to use, you know, they're going to put one starship up, then they're going to do another. Then they're going to flip them. Then they're going to go to, leave one, come back, like, the plan. So Gwen shot well, the president, we, it's, SpaceX is really cool because it's very non-hierarchal.

So you're like always, you're two people away from Elon. Like, you know, like it's very flat, you know. So we got a presentation. I got to meet Gwen. And I asked her, I was like, are we going to, like, who are you going to send up there, you know? And she's like, well, it's a private company. And like, there's not an abundance of astronauts. So she's like, well, be sending SpaceX, you know, in place.

So I was like, sick. Get me on the list. Yeah, for sure. She said their first successful starship landing, the, the, they were going to do a test run. The first time they get a landing one, they said the next one will have people on it. So I was like, it's wild, dude.

But I don't work there. They offer, I could have. What happened? So what happened? My wife didn't want to move to LA. And so we had a, we had a deal.

We had a deal. So I talked to one of my manager friends there and I was like, I was like, I do, what do I do? Like, I kind of want to tell her to fuck off and like, you know, like, this is like, dude, the signing bonus was like 150 racks. I was like, this is, this is,

This is life-changing for us, right? Like, and he told me, um, that's a good story too, man. Andy's cool. Uh, it kind of plays into like who I am as a person and a personality, you know,

like I just meet these people, you know, uh, but I asked Andy, he was like a mentor to me at SpaceX. I was like, hey, what do I do,

man? like he's like, dude, you're super smart. Like, he's like, you're and you're personal and like you're like you're like you, I, he's like,

you have nothing but good reviews here. He's like, you can get a job anywhere. He's like, do you want like, he said, do you want to do it now or later he's like you might not have another shot like keeping your family you know he's like he's like he was a seal for 22 years before he was and he's like I've moved my family so many times and he's like he's like I'm kind of the same boat as you he's

like my wife doesn't want me here he's like this this is like yeah he's like if he's like I advise you to just like take one for the team and like you know you can pursue your dream later and I was like all right so me and my wife had a deal I would do one interview because engineering interviews are hard they're like multi multi rounds and like either their test like you know it's like it's crazy i don't want to do the process plus i have to tell them i'm a felon every time like i have that i'm like you have multiple hurdles dude i'm at the top what i can't go higher than SpaceX why would i go anywhere else right like so the deal was i would do one interview i was like i'll do one washington interview i'll apply to a bunch

places i'll do one interview if they don't beat spaces offer i don't think they were going to right i was like if they beat SpaceX offer i'll stay sure as shit i get offered this like aviation like laser job right and they're like how much of SpaceX paying you i said 85 blah blah blah they gave me 95 and i was like so i was like okay i have to plus with our tax structure in washington compared to california we actually would have been taking like a net 40,000 a year loss to go to california we owned a house we would have been renting it made sense financially i was like that sucks but i was like and he said i can come back whenever i already check my manager he's like yeah dude we got a job for you you know so i took the job that job ended up being like

front for some like Russian shit. This is right when Ukraine happened. So they fly me to Italy to do training. I'm like, cool. I'm going to do helicopter training with lasers in Italy. Dude, this is going to be tight. They did have lasers and helicopters in Italy. The reason they sent me there was not because that's where they work on the lasers like they told me. It's because their entire 150 person organization, 140 of them were Russian engineers and they couldn't leave the country. So they had everybody else in the company quit except for one engineer in Italy. So they had to send me over there for training because all the other ones couldn't get out of Russia. So I'm a felon.

I'm very familiar with things that are going on. I'm like, bro, I've worked at ITAR companies. Like, I know what ITAR is, like international trade agreement regulations for like SpaceX and shit. I was like, I don't want a foreign government on my resume, bro. I was like, I already am a felon. Like, I don't want Russia on top of my eight felonies. I was like, I quit, dude.

So I come back from Italy. I quit. And I'm like, okay, I'm going back to SpaceX. I call SpaceX. They don't got a spot for me in L. anymore. I was like, cool, what about Redmond in Washington? He's like, I put in a bunch of reviews. I mean, recommendations. I spent five months interviewing on four different teams at Redmond, right? And I told my wife, I was like, I'm not going to work because I need to

prep for these. Like, I can't, this, it's not a joke. Like, I need to like prepare. So I had to go through three rounds of interviews and then a fourth round is a presentation. It's six hours. So you present on your most technical project and then you get grilled by everyone there. and then you do 30-minute, like, interviews with each person that was on the panel. They can ask you engineering questions, so you need to prepare, right? Spent five months, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Virgin Galactic goes bankrupt. They all go on layoffs. There's an abundance of engineers.

I don't get a job. So now I ended up taking the first job I could get, which was a civil engineering job at WashDot, which is Department of Transportation. I'm not even a civil engineer, but they were like, you're a resume. sick, you know? So I do that, hate it. I get a job doing what I was doing at SpaceX, which is automation and controls at a local firm. That's what I do now. And I love it. Like, it's literally what I want to do. It's not on rockets. It's on, you know, wastewater treatment plants and stuff like that or production plants. Same work, though. So I don't know. That's probably cutable from the podcast, but that's what I do now, which, you know, does. Okay. And I, like,

The reason I bring it up is because, uh, A, it's like part of my story, but in engineering, like everyone's like, oh, I played with Legos.

That's how I know it would be an engineer. Yeah. Looking back, I'm like, I was really smart, dude. Right. Some of that shit was like,

I mean, I was a drug addict, but like some of the, like figuring out the phone scam and stuff like that, it like, it, it does take a level of intelligence to like figure the complexities of that out. And I'm like,

also like, I remember when I was stealing stuff with my brother, like when we were in junior high, um i figured out that like if you take a coat hanger and you like make it in this l shape and you flatten the end you could pop lockers with locks on them at the school and so we'd steal all the way teams stuff like at basketball games and like i was like i wasn't playing with legos but i was like definitely picking locks and shit like i mean the the mechanical aspect should have been there you know there's a lot of uh yeah wasted talent in prison that's so much

dude i know um i mean just i only got my bachelor's man but um i got through the scholarships and stuff. I know a lot of people. I thought I was unique for many years, like, in college. Like, I'd never known anyone from the life that, like, got, went to school until, like, I went to UW and that scholarship and I met more people. And there's a significant amount of people to get out and, like, get masters and PhDs and stuff like that. And, like, it's really cool. Like, I don't know. Like, I, I, I did a lot of work, like, trying to push, like, education in the prison system in the U.S. And, like, I really feel, like, if you look at the number, recidivism is greatly reduced by it and like right i mean the shit you were doing yeah dude we're

smart people like we're super smart people like i just i don't know for me anyway my world was so small i didn't see where i could apply that you yeah oh yeah yeah um yeah it's it's it's and this is actually perfect your case is you know idealic for this is that you know it always see these guys that like they they end up it's like wow you're super smart what you were you were you were just a drug dealer, but, you know, but well, yeah, but when you were, this kid was raised, his mom's a prostitute, his dad's in and out of prison, all, only people he knows that have any money or drug dealers, like there's no, you know what I'm saying? When you're looking at your options and you have no options and it's like, okay, I could go

work at McDonald's or I could go pull 1,500 a week as a, you know, runner for this guy. Right. What are you going to do? I pay my mom's bills this way, you know? Right. And that's it. That's the only options. Like, they don't know anybody else and they don't know what avenue there is.

to do anything else. And even if they can think, oh, everybody says, I should do this and this and this. They don't know anybody that's doing any of those things. They don't know anybody that's successful at those things.

So they become foreign. That's some guy saying, yeah, you should go to college and then you could go get a job doing the making a lot of money, doing what? I don't know. There's jobs out there. He doesn't know because he's a crackhead.

You know what I'm saying? That is my pitch to my guys. Most of us, I'm like, bro, you are a scholarship golden ticket. I made enough money from scholarships. I bought a house. Like, I was pulling 160,000 a year on scholarships. I was like, if you take that hustler mentality, I was like, I wrote a four-page essay that

paid me $40,000. It took me three months to write it with the drafts and stuff. That's good money, dude. I was like, I mean, I literally got paid to go to school because of my past. You know, I was like, you can still profit off of it. Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly.

Like, making crime pay. Yes. You know? So, um. There's smarter ways to do what we were doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hustle don't stop, but just, you know, you don't get arrested. for it. The right way.

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