Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Leonardo DiCaprio Linked to $6.5M Fraud Scheme | FBI Stories

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

Check out part 2 of this video on Matt & Tom's new channel & make sure you subscribe! https://youtu.be/pDISWwJ5vf0⁣ ⁣ Former FBI agent Tom Simon and Matt Cox break down major federal fraud cases, including a $6.5 million scheme linked to Leonardo DiCaprio, while Matt reflects on the consequences of his own criminal past and how turning his life around changed his perspective on crime, prison, and what really matters.⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Shop my merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/MatthewCoxCollection⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ Check out my Dark Docs YouTube channel here -⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@DarkDocsMatthewCox⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Her big marquee client is Leonardo DiCaprio, who's a huge art collector. She's also a thief, Matt Cox, and that Barbara had embezzled $44 million. Listen, on a serious note, I want to let the audience know. First, I love you guys. And second, I want you to stick around to the end of this episode where I have a very personal announcement I want to share with you. Some of you are going to hate me for it. Some of you are going to like me for it.

But I just need to get this off my chest. Just stay with me this episode because I want to talk to you. You said you were going to cut the, where he's I have it cut. It's at the house. Are you serious? Yeah, I'll see if I can. For those of you didn't watch the last episode, Matt was one and eight, right?

He had gotten eight wrong. There was one left. There was three stories left. I get up to take a leak. And then I come back and Matt starts sweeping, getting all of them on the nose. What kind of luck is that? And I left the papers right here thinking like, well, Matt, Matt appreciates the integrity of the show. He's not going to actually like look at the answers that.

you know, you know, folded underneath because one time he actually was trying to read him upside down. And so now I have this fold here so he can't see what the answers are. And gosh, I went to the bathroom and then suddenly you got smart. And I 100% nail them on my own. And Colby has the cut. He actually has. Is this a Bruder film? No, where you get up and you walk out and he and I are just talking until you come back and sit down.

I never look at the bed. He said, he's like, you never look. I never look. He's got it. All right. Well, here's what I know. When I watched the episode, right, Colby did some interesting animation where your eyes are going right to the paper. I'm not even looking at it.

Then I come back and I start launching into the next story. You've got to get someone ahead. And you look at the camera like Jim Alpert in the office and smiling at the cat that ate the canary. That is all editing. It is. It's just good editing. You got your hand caught in a cookie jar there. Oh, my God.

Whatever. It's your show. It's not like we have money writing on this. And before we start, my neighbor was able to get that. I had them go to my house. and get the video of the break. So if you guys want to watch that, that would be stitched in.

I just texted it to y'all. Okay. It'll be stitched in on the back. Colby said it. So let's see what we got here. This is John. Stop! I knew it.

It's your fucking show. It's your show, man. That is not what happened. Colby. Want to look at it again? No, look at Colby. But did you guys plan this? Come on, bro.

Stop. Look at that. All right. I mean. Wait a minute. Is this AI? I don't care. It's your show.

show. I mean, I try to keep the game with somewhat integrity. There's no stakes here. It's not like you win money and I lose money, so I'm not angry at you for it. But I will- Call me. But let's, is this a joke between the two of you? Leaving your shit out in front of a con man, a guy who cheats for a living, is my fault, not yours. That is a lie. That's not what happened at all. I take full responsibility for leaving my stuff in your presence and not taking it with me to go take a bath. And that's on me, okay? It's like the internal control failures at a company. Of course you're going to get ripped off. Was that AI?

That was AI. What else would it be? Who are you going to believe, Colby or your lion eyes? Yeah, I didn't have the, I didn't have the raw footage. I still have the house. Did you just make that while you were sitting there? I grabbed a screenshot from the video. From the video.

And then send it to my buddy. It's like, hey. We've been planning. We've been planning. And film this on your lap. I didn't realize it at first. I was like, what's happening? I'm watching myself do something.

No, I did not do that. Oh, my God, bro. That's got my face fucking awful. I'm all sweating now. I'm so fucking upset. You've been caught. It's like, yeah. Oh, God.

Well, that's going to be the future of law enforcement where, um, where defense attorneys will be accusing the FBI of using AI to create videos of people taking bribes and stuff. You know, I, I interviewed. Oh, sorry. I wish I would have done that without Tom knowing. At that, it was. Oh, okay. That would have been very gratifying.

So what we're going to do, I have 12 crime stories for you. I think they're nearly all FBI crime stories today. And some of them are cases I work, but most of them are cases that other FBI agents work. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to go through the entire story and tell you about the crime, tell you about the discovery of the crime, tell you about the criminal, tell you about the victim, tell you about the conviction. And then when it comes time for the sentencing, Matt Cox, you are going to guess how much time that person got in federal prison. And if you are within 25% of the correct answer or one year, you get a point. And if you get half of the available points of this game, you win. Nice.

You win. So our first game show question, our game show story, is a case that I investigated, Jacksonville lady. She worked for a company that processed insurance claims for a major restaurant chain. Okay. Okay. And so the restaurant chain is so big that they're self-insured. They don't have a third-party insurance company, so they would pay out their claims for slip and falls or food poisoning or whatever.

I don't want to embarrass the victim, but let's say it rhymes with Schmallel of Smarton. Okay. So, you know, bottomless soup bowls, bread, small of Smarton is the name of the victim company here. But I don't want to embarrass them by telling you with their name. They deserve to have some level of anonymity. So what she's doing is so she works for this third. party company that has the contract with Schmolopshmarten to process their claims. So somebody has

food poisoning and they send like a letter or a notification or a complaint or something like that saying that they're going to sue. They function as the insurance company. Okay. Yeah. And so what she was doing was processing fake claims because she was, she had the ability, she's a claims process for people who did not have a slip and fall, people who did not suffer food poisoning. And she was also in a position to to paper the file for each one of those claims to make it look very realistic. And then she would give it approval and probably go to her supervisor who would then rubber stamp it. And then the fake claimants were all friends and family members of Belke. They get a check.

Yeah, who get a check, you know, a settlement check or an insurance settlement in exchange for not suing. And then they would just give the money to her bank account. And so eventually she gets caught doing that, like some audit or whatever. And I get to sign the case. the numbers of the fake claims, and there's a couple other caveats here, seven fake claims is what we found, but a total of $510,000 that she benefited. Okay. Okay.

Right? And so I get assigned the case. First thing I do is I subpoena her bank account. I want to see the money going into her bank account. Can I ask a question? Yeah, of course. How do they get on to it? And who notifies you?

Okay. We get notified by the victim company by Schmallelofmarten. Right. That's easy. As far as how they figured it out, I think some claims audit, it's always going to be some kind of audit situation. Somebody just saw something. Yeah, they see that multiple claims are going to the same bank account routing number maybe or the same. I think maybe they did a sort by some auditor there did a sort by like street address of the claimant. And they see that. I remember this, though, they started seeing the same claimant with different spellings of the name, like Rodriguez with a Z versus Rodriguez with an S type of thing. And so that's what raised the red flags. Okay. It was just carelessness on her part by utilizing the same claimants again and again and again with slight variations on the name. It didn't take that that's a phone call to the to the restaurant saying, hey, we have a slip and fall here and they go, who? What?

No. More like service. Like I think as I'm remembering this, there's a few years back. If you want, yeah, if that calls like, okay, why don't we send you a claim form? And then you fill out a claim form saying, like, you know, which is, or you, or they hear from an attorney. But I think in this one, it began with a complaint that gets a claim form. And then they, then they look at it and kind of work out a settlement. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah, I think that's right. You get a complaint form because this was a, this is a waitress working for the restaurant. So you get a, you get a complaint form from someone at the restaurant saying, hey, our waitress pulled a muscle in her back. These are all customers. Oh, these are. Okay. Well, then a customer burnt themselves on some coffee or whatever it was. It's usually slipping falls.

Right. So there's some water on the floor at the Schmallel of Smarton at Oak Ridge Mall and Oak Ridge. What I'm saying is it's not hard for the, it's not hard for them to make a phone call and say, talk to the manager. The manager goes, that never happened. Right. Because it's a fake claim. Exactly. The only person this all goes back to is their insurance adjuster or process or whatever you're calling that.

That's part of it. For slip and falls, certainly for the food poisoning, it's a little more nebulous because it usually doesn't hit you. till 10 hours later. Yeah. So it can be a call to a doctor or the emergency, whoever it is. But people that are listed on the form are not actual. They're not. They're not.

So they figured out after a few phone call. The parent company for Smallest Martin has their own internal function to do fraud investigations who kind of establishes this happens before they contact the FBI. Right. Typically, you have an insurance company you pay to handle these things. But if you're big enough, you can self-insure. Exactly. Right.

And they're self-insured. They're self-insured, but they had a third party processing the claim. And so seven fake claims, $510,000, I get the case. Okay, another key point. The people who were receiving the checks were signing it over and she was depositing the money into her own bank account. That's bad. Not good. You'd be better off just give the check to them, let it go through, have them give me the money in cash.

That would have been. As I recall, that's how it was because I remember seeing the checks going into her bank account. But then I started seeing checks from before she was on the small of smart and account. And she was working for a different car insurance company. And I see checks from that car insurance company going into her account, too, payable to different people. This is a long term. This is her thing. I was like, and so I call the car insurance company and talk to their investigative staff, their special investigative unit and say,

tell them what I'm seeing. And I go, was this person an employee there? And they go, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I go, were there any complaints or anything like that? And they go, no, she was a good employee. She left the job. I go, I think she was embezzling from you, you know, between six and three years ago. And I start sending him the evidence and they start looking into it.

They're like, God damn, you're right. Oh, she used to bring donuts. Yeah. Now, again, she was processing car insurance claims, the same type of idea. And what she was doing was she was looking for car, actual car accidents that actually were in the pipeline to be paid out. And she would add an injured passenger. Nice. You know I was an insurance adjuster.

Were you really? for a year. Interesting. It was horrible at it. But I did. I actually got my insurance. You have to be licensed in the state of Florida. It's a insurance license.

And I got my like 220 insurance license, which allows you to become an insurance adjuster. And I did, I did workman's car. First, first I started doing car and then I did workman's comp. So I'm very aware of how the whole process works. And it could be, I don't know, I don't want to say easy, but it's, it really, it could be manipulated. If you, I would, it'd be better if you had somebody on the outside to help you. but yeah but it sounds like she they have it streamlined she's not a she's she's a claims process right so she's yeah she's literally adding a human being to a car that was in a legitimate accident and uh she has a lot

of control like she has a lot yeah and then negotiating the settlement with this fake person you know who gets a check for seven eight thousand or 15 thousand bucks and i'm sure that if it's under a certain amount they don't even look at it yeah like it's under a hundred thousand dollar check or 50 thousand like they they're just snake right so i go out and start interviewing these allegedly injured parties and and you know they they weren't even really getting much if any of the money like they were just like you know i don't know what to tell you belke you said i could be getting a check and i just need to hand it off to her and uh because they're friends and family members uh so so we have 13 fictitious claims in that second scheme totaling 435 000 she's she's over a is she had a million yet

or close to it 435 plus 510 so just under that we're at a total of 945 945 945 thousand dollars she lawyers up right away i don't get a really i don't get a chance to do any of my yamma jama on her no not the smooth tom simon hey not much i can do and then she did something really interesting uh well or her attorney did so she goes to her attorney i i'm not privy to the conversation they had he lays she lays it out for him i assume and he's like you got nowhere to go yeah and he goes here's what i'm going to do and he did tell me this he goes he goes this is about sentencing. And he goes, this isn't about like proving your innocence or making the government rise to its burden of proof. You are caught red-handed. And he goes, I want to be able to argue with

the sentencing that that you cooperated every step of the way. Let's bring in Tom Simon and he'll interview you. No proffer agreement, no queen for a day deal. He'll interview you in my presence in my office and answer all of his questions honestly. And then then and so I did. I interviewed her. She told me the story. You know, psychological problems, financial pressures, nothing, nothing out of the ordinary, but you know, she did this twice. And she owns up to it. She cops to it. There was nice lady, not like rude or no bad attitude about her. And, and her attorney is just sort of sitting there listening, taking notes and all that. Is there anything else you need from her, anything that, you know, anything else you need to

know? I was very curious about the people that she was using as the fake claimants, because I thought there could be a case there. There just wasn't. They weren't, they didn't have enough of a knowledge of the scheme. I'm sure they, you know, push comes to show of. They knew that there was something shady going on, but, you know, we're not looking to ruin someone's life for helping out their sister-in-law. Right. Her attorney's theme during the sentencing, uh, sentencing was that, listen, she, she did the wrong thing, but when she got caught, she cooperated fully. She met with the FBI. She met with agent Tom Simon. There was no pushback. She told him honestly what happened. We didn't even ask for a proffer agreement or anything to kind of protect her, no immunity, um,

deal and he goes now she came into court she pled guilty this is a woman who feels bad about what she did all that so he makes a very and he's a really good attorney he makes a really really compelling case that that she cooperated fully and that was his theme during the sentencing and so my question for you is we have seven fake claims to the restaurant we have 13 fake claims to the insurance company we have two separate victims uh we're at about 945 000 another interesting fact she goes to her family and says, I'm in trouble, I need your help. The family gathers all their money together, extended family, maybe gets second mortgages on the home, maybe takes out credit card advances. She comes to the table with $700,000 in restitution that she wants to pay before

her sentencing. So she still owes $200,000 something else, but like basically the whole family gathered together, good Latino family, to pitch in $700,000 after she's been caught and to pay restitution to the victim companies. So given all that, how much time you're going to give her? I feel like that last part's important because it's smart. That's the advice I would give her, is that you sell a kidney if you have to to get that restitution paid before the sentencing so you can go to the judge and say no harm, no file.

But she's still short a couple hundred grand. She's still short. She's still committed a fraud. She's still. Two frauds. Yeah. But. And it's still, I mean, it's not.

It is actual loss. She's just shy of a million in actual loss, even though she's paid it back. That's, that's, it's not, that's really almost irrelevant. That's irrelevant to the sentencing guidelines. Yeah. It's one of those qualitative things that the judge may consider in addition to coming in and like on your knees and fully cooperating and agreeing to an FBI interview. Oh, I hate this because some judges, I think that's almost a, a, you know what,

I'm going to give you three years paper or five years paper. But I also feel like. Had she not done that, she's getting it probably two years. I'm saying, they probably didn't give her anything. And she's a woman. And a mother. Oh, God. I hate when they use that.

And I think she's in her 40s, so she's not, you know, she's not terribly young, not terribly old. I think that she probably, I'm going to go 12 months because that covers me to 24 months and it covers me all the way down. Mr. Tactical. I'm going to go, I'm going to go 12. Let's go, 12 months for a million dollar fraud? Metcogs? There's one victim. No, two.

Two, sorry. It's two victims. It goes up to five. I know corporate victims, you have no sympathy for. None. I don't think I paid. I don't think that affected my price of my free. Smallest Martin doesn't employ people.

My free bread sticks. I don't think. The bottom of soup. Yeah. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's really, I think 12 months, 12 months. That is an F ton of money. You're going with 12 months. It's seven. She gave back 700,000. She's not, she really falls below all of those. I don't, I think, yeah, I think 12 months. And I think the most she gets is 24 months, but I'm not going to say 24 because I'm covered to 24. So 12, I think 12 months.

And I think that, yeah, I think that. And she'll probably got probably got five years paper, three years paper or something. I think it's always three years for these type of things. Yeah. So I think 12, I'm going to say 12 months. Matt Cox, is that your final answer? That is. The correct answer is 15 months in prison.

Ugh. Uh, uh, take that. I want to talk about your art. I don't think as many people, your art's amazing. And I don't, no, seriously. I don't say many nice things about you, but I do think your art's amazing. Is that like a, is that more of a hobby, or does that, that another stream of income for you?

How do you view the art in your life? It's funny. I have, and I don't know, not so many pieces, but I probably 10 or 12 pieces right now that were in the garage. I actually had to have a guy, a carpenter build a thing to keep them in these, because it's hard. You don't want to have anything push against a canvas or it. So yeah, I do it just to do it. I like doing it.

I'm painting one right now. I figured someday I want to have like all paintings in all my rooms. And then at some point, I'll have enough of them that I might start doing like a, you know, like a showing, you know, and then sell them. I don't really sell anything now. You could buy them. Are you selling an SD for a one? Etsy. Etsy.

Yeah. Yes, on Etsy. Yeah. And I have a Cox Pop art. Listen, we're just plug it across the way. We're plugging all kinds of stuff today. Well, you should. Cox Pop art is on Etsy and I sell like signed copies of my book and I know, Jess runs it.

Yeah. No, it's good. I'm a big fan of it. You ever use an art broker to try to sell your art. for you? No. Or to market it? No.

When I first got out of prison, I talked to, I had actually talked to a couple art brokers, but nothing just panned out, you know? Right. Well, there was a, I want to tell you a story about an art broker. Okay. Because I thought about you. Her name's Lisa Schiff, 54-year-old woman. Very attractive.

Blonde hair. That helps. Yeah, yeah. Manhattan, kind of a wealthy socialite. Like, it's invited to all the right parties and very fashionable. lady. That's who's buying art. And she's an advisor to the rich and famous who want to buy art. In fact, her big marquee client is Leonardo DiCaprio, who's a huge art collector. Nice. I didn't know that. Yeah. She's also a thief, Matt Cox. You don't have to sell her on me.

Basically, if you think of her as a realtor, except for paintings, then you can kind of understand her business model. Right. If a rich person or a gallery has a piece of art they want to sell, they contact Lisa who then markets the art and does all that and sells it and takes a piece of the action. I don't know what her commission is. By the same token, if there's a piece of art you want or a style of art you want, you can contact Lisa and she will go out and find it for you and then show you this is a beautiful piece of art. This is how much I can get it for for you. And she takes a piece of that as an art broker. You get the business model here? All right. So Lisa basically used this arrangement to begin scamming her clients. She would sell their

paintings as the kind of as the broker and then keep the money for herself telling her clients that the art had not yet sold oh this is the the timepiece gentleman model yeah yeah yeah exactly same type of thing on the buy side she would steal her client's money by falsely telling them that she was still working to acquire the painting um but she you know like i'm still working out we're negotiating the deal they're playing hardball with us but she would just keep their money it's actually a great model until one day they get frustrated and say i want my painting back you're Right. Yeah, or the arts delivery has been delayed and all that.

So when just enough time would elapse, when her clients would start to grow suspicious, she would steal money from a new client to pay the old client. Kind of like a Ponzi scheme. Kind of like a Ponzi scheme, but with paintings. Lisa's scheme collapsed when she couldn't replace the money she stole with new money. Like all Ponzi schemes eventually collapse. The economic loss to her clients, and these are art collectors and galleries. I want to make sure that I don't,

Leonardo de Capri was not a known victim in this case. Doesn't mean we can't put them on a thumbnail. I thought as much. Anyway, the losses stand at $6.5 million. Yeah. Yeah. FBI investigates her scam and she comes in on her knees and pleads guilty.

Nice. Let's see. How many victims? Don't know. And no co-defendants? No co-defendants. I don't have the number of victims, but it's art collectors and galleries.

A dozen. I don't know. I mean, then you get into is someone a victim if they got paid back with someone else's money. It's a difficult situation. But $6.5 million. Lisa declares bankruptcy during the course of the investigation. And her own art collection has been seized and is being liquidated to try to pay everybody back. That's going to be pennies on the dollar. But she has to face the judge for a sentencing for stealing $6.5 million through this fine art Ponzi scheme. No criminal history on her. She's a socialite. Pretty pretty. blonde lady i don't know if i mentioned that do we do we um 54 years old do we know how many victims

i or is it i don't it'll say a dozen but um but it's some of the victims are institutional galleries some of the victims are um are people yeah and in liquidating everything she's got probably doesn't pay back the pennies on the dollar it'll chip away at the restitution but we're not talking a ton yeah how much time you're going to give lisa schiff of manhattan um you should have some real expertise here as a famous artist i 36 months? 36 months? I don't believe anything you say.

Talk to me about your thought process. I'm so glad that we've done so many of these. The learning curve is kicking in? Exactly. When you say something like that, I think I must have hit it on the nose. I'm just thinking about another guy that I knew that it stole like, I don't know, it was like three and a half million and he got like three years. So I'm thinking, and then so six, but of course, then again, she is a, you know, upper middle class white woman.

Right. You know what I'm saying? In New York, fairly liberal. Yeah. It could swing the other way, though. You can get a judge who's like, listen, I'm sick and tired of putting African-American men in prison for life. And then we got a pretty blonde, 54-year-old socialite, you know, I'm going to throw the book at her. You could see a judge saying that.

Yeah. But you can also see the judge saying, like, I remember meeting her to cocktail party. And she was a delight. Plus, I'm sure she, yeah. We talked about Moreau for hours. Yeah. She made four phone calls and the judge got three phone calls, three or four phone calls from friends of friends saying, hey, she's a good person. Mm-hmm.

This is not her fault. Well, you're making a real argument for less than 30 months then, right? No, I still think 30. I think 30. I think the guidelines probably put her at 48 months or something like that for $6 million. Do you think the discounted is the three or 36 months? Yeah. I think, yeah.

And I'm trying to, you know, cover the, I'm good for a year either way. So I'm thinking 30, I think 36 months. I'll bet she, oh, is she got like 24 months or something? Oh, they just, me, that pissed me off. It's just such bullshit. Or less. For six million, no criminal history, nonviolent crime. I know, but you know, not even necessarily sympathetic victims.

I mean, boy, people are lucky. I'm not a judge. some people I'd be an asshole to you know you're right she probably she probably ended up getting 12 months or six months or something ridiculous some of these guys it's possible yeah but i'm going to go 36 months then you because i don't i'm not going to allow you to move me the rock of gibraltar so 36 months is your guess final answer metcox yeah really yes oh i hate myself right now i hate it i want to say 24 months now Oh, I feel like 36 months. I'm going to go, you know what?

I'm going to go 30 months. You're going to go 30 months. 30 months. 30 months. 30 months. I'm a year either way. You're splitting the difference. You were torn between 24 and 36 and you're going to make it at 30. 30.

Okay. So 30 months is your guess. Yeah, because obviously it's going to be two months or something. Final answer? Yes. For real? Yeah. 100% final answer.

Matt Cox? Lisa Schiff was sentenced to 30 months in prison. See, how? much I helped you. See? See, I help you. I help you. I get the assist on that one. Oh, wait, and I hit it on the head. That's two points. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's amazing. You are three for two. And I haven't even taken a bathroom break yet. So I did never. Are you going to put that clip on the end of this where it shows that he left and that I didn't do that? Well, I want to, this is such a great segue because the next story I wanted to pick your brain about your time as a fugitive and your decision during the course of your crime spree.

to run away and become a fugitive rather than face the music and the consequences of your actions. My question is very specific. Selfishness. Yeah. Was it worth it? Oh, absolutely not. No, absolutely not. The time is the fugitive.

No. No, absolutely not. I mean, it's, I get asked all the time, like, were you looking over your shoulder? No, I was never looking over my shoulder. Let's say, I'm not, I always used this analogy. I'm not a guy droveing a stolen car with a broken tail light and a body. in the trunk. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not an idiot. Like, I'm not concerned about the authorities. I have a valid driver's license. I have dozens of them. I have a valid passport. And these are

issued by the state or the federal government. Like, I wasn't looking over my shoulder that's, oh my gosh, you know, I'm so scared. Was it stressful, though, that you would be found out and arrested? I mean, obviously that was why you became a fugitive in the first place. This is that you wouldn't have to face the consequences of your action and go to prison. So being a fugitive in kind of kicking that down the road or at least trying to evade that must have been stressful in some level. No? I mean, what's stressful is going into a bank with fake documents. That's a little stressful.

Sure. But I also know that these documents check out. And if you call the police, they're going to go in their car and they're going to run the document. They're going to come back and they're going to say, no, this is this guy's Michael Eckert. He's got a valid North Carolina driver's license. Like, what are we doing here? So I wasn't concerned about it.

that like I knew what the process was and what their checks and balances were I knew that it was okay what you're describing is you being cocky yeah no absolutely arrogance like beyond beyond the thing I look back now and think how are you not riddled with with absolute anxiety how did you sleep it not yeah but I did it was you know but if you said oh was it worth it that's a separate question was it worth it absolutely not it wasn't worth the time I spent in prison it wasn't worth not being with my family. It wasn't the damage I did to my son, to my relationships. That wasn't worth it.

I want to tell you a story about a guy who made a very similar decision when the heat was coming down upon him. This is a story about Northfield, Vermont, a resident named John Van Boot, relevant to the story, 73 years old. Come on, bro. John, what are you doing? He was a contract accountant for the home internet provider, ValleyNet. I think the local internet provider.

And as part of his duties, he was in charge of electronic transfers to pay the bills of the company, basically the accounts payable department, right? And so that's where he implemented an embezzlement scheme where he sent electronic fund transfers to accounts that were under his control and then covered it up in the accounting records to make it look like they were legitimate bills of the company. Make sense? Yeah. We've talked about cases like that.

And Ballinette failed to implement the internal control that I recommend where you have different people who have access to the accounting records versus access to the assets of the company. We call that segregation of duties. It prevents most embezzlements. Yeah. Vowing it to not do that. At the very least, they have to work together and it's hard to get people to work with you on a fraud. Exactly. Do you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life? You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaya and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today, I'm still figuring it out. Somehow, things usually get worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll.

So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. So he steals $560,000 that way. Over what period of time? It's a good question. I think a couple of years. Yeah, a year or two. I wish I had the period of time here for you, but it's that year or two. This wasn't like a 10 year, one of those stories where the people were doing this for like a decade or whatever.

Over that period. So he steals $560,000 and he uses the money to buy vacation homes in Florida and Georgia. Okay, 73-year-old guy wants to go enjoy some, get out of Vermont for a little bit, enjoy some sun. Yeah. This wasn't his first rodeo, though, Matt Cox. Before going to work for ValleyNet, this is interesting. The real estate is better than strippers and blow. Yeah.

He embezzled $50,000 from a previous employer, pled guilty in that case, in a state case, and later had the conviction expunged from his record, something that they don't have in the federal system. But in the state system, they can basically, you can appeal to the courts to wipe it out. Right. But then he goes back and does it again. And so that nonviolent, he, let's see, yeah. So the valiant embezzlement gets discovered. The company calls in the FBI to investigate. John finds out, and this happens all the time.

It's very difficult for an FBI agent to keep an investigation secret when you're out there conducting interviews and things like that. Eventually, the bad guy is going to find out he's under investigation. And most of the time, they just sit there with dread waiting for that knock on their door with me coming in there to get the confession from them. Yeah. But John sees the writing on the wall and he takes off, right? Again, there's no warrant for his arrest yet, but he takes off to hide from the feds. He leaves his family behind who actually reports him as missing. John's gone.

They don't even know. No, he does not share with them. He just literally just dips. Okay. Agents find him in New Mexico. And as they were closing in on him, like they're conducting interviews in New Mexico, maybe some surveillance to see if he's there. He sees the agents or gets his wind that the agents are watching him.

He takes off again and runs again. Next time he runs to Brunswick, Georgia, just a little bit north of Jacksonville. He's on it. He's good at this. He's on the run. run. And he spends a year in Brunswick, Georgia, working as an accountant for a small family, leaving his, for a small business, leaving his estranged family behind, eventually the FBI catches up to him and arrest him. Okay. And so he gets brought back to Vermont in chains,

and he pleads guilty to these federal fraud charges. The FBI finds out that he had this other case that was expunged for 50,000 bucks. But the loss to Ballynet for that embezzlement is $560,000. Okay. Okay. His vacation homes are seized by the government and forfeited with the proceeds going back to ValleNet. Don't know if there's a shortfall there.

I could look that up. It doesn't matter for sentencing guidelines. And so this guy who was taking a page from the Matt Cox playbook by being a man on the run instead of facing justice. Right. How much time you're going to give him, John Bambout? Um, again, 73 years old also. So keep that in mind too.

Yeah, which is probably what he was thinking is like, I'm 73. I'm not going to go to fucking prison for five years. I can be dead in five years, you know? What I don't know, and it's an interesting question is because that first one was expunged, does it still push him into criminal history category two for the sentencing guidelines? I think so. Well, also it depends on how long ago it was. Like I think it's over seven years or something.

They can't, they can't. Not in seven years. That's the bankruptcy. Anyway, there's a certain period of time. Like, if it's over a certain period of time, they can't use it against you, too. So I wonder what that is. I don't have that. But I think it was the previous employer before vowing it. I just don't know if that's 10 years or two years.

Even if he's in category two, I don't think that changes that much. Yeah, anyway, yeah, a little bit. But $560,000 loss and running around like a chicken with his head cut off to try to evade the FBI during the course of the investigation. God, he's old, too. Yeah. I wonder if judges take that. in a consideration like, God, I'm giving this guy a death sentence.

Like, he could, you know, it's not a death sentence. He was on the run. He's now seven. He's probably, is he 73 when he, when he gets sentenced or? 73 at the time of sentencing. Oh, okay. So he was in his 70s when this whole thing started to fall apart. It's funny.

In my own case, I knew something was going on because I got a phone call from two title companies saying, listen, I'm not supposed to say anything. Okay. Okay. But we just got like a dozen subpoenas. Yeah. Really wasn't a dozen subpoena. It was a subpoena for any any closings that they had done that kind of like was associated with me or that they knew I'd been associated. So it ended up being like a dozen files for one company and 10 or 20 for another or something like that.

Yeah. But and I was like, oh. But it wasn't the FBI. Yeah. It was a service. No, no. It was a task force. So it was the FDLE who I think had said.

subpoenaed them, something like that. But, you know, I was already on federal paper paper, so I was like, it's not good. It's not good. It's a bad situation. Yeah. But, you know, I put my head in the sand and thought I did. Getting back to John Van Boot, age 73, $560,000 loss.

You don't want to be here for three and a half hours? I'm happy to be here. The longer episodes seem to perform very well. Old John, it's not a lot of, I know it seems like a lot of money. Right. You know, as far as the sentencing guidelines are concerned, But again, he's a repeat customer. He is.

And even if the judge, he's still going to take it into consideration. Even if he's not done fall in the category, the judge is still going to be like, come on, man. Yeah, there's a guy who's not learned his lesson before for taking a fall for this. Does the fugitive thing play into the judge's decision that, again, he pleads guilty, but he's running around like a chick with his head cut off trying to stay one step ahead of the law in this thing? Do you think that's one of those intangibles that the judge considers? Maybe, but it's not like a charge. No, right? No, he wasn't charged with interstate transportation.

But I do think he takes it in consideration. He still kind of goes, well, man, you're not. Not like you said, hey, I fucked up. Yeah, right. You're just saying that now that you got caught. 24 months. 21 months? Two years?

Yeah, I think 24 months. I think that covers me to 12 months. And I think the judge, at the very least, because this is the second time, the judge is going to give him 12. And because he went on the run, even the, no matter what the dollar amount is, he's going to say 12 months, at minimum. Even with him being a frequent flyer, a repeat customer, a guy who's That's what I'm saying. 24 brings me up to 36. So I think 20, I'm good between 12 and 36 because I have the one year variance. So I think 24 months.

Okay. Is that your final answer, Mac? Yeah. How are you going to give more than that? Because he's 73? He's 73. And it's only half a million. Only half a million? Only half a million? Only half a million. This guy is an old man. Listen, I know the YouTube people are good working people. I speak to a lot of you. A half million dollars is a lot of money. But Matt Cox doesn't seem to think so.

But it's a corporation. He took it from a corporation. We don't know. An internet provider. They keep people connected. They're bringing people together. Somebody at Cox Media is spinning all night long. They got us for half a billion.

It matters. So final answer is, is 24 months, right? No, what I said? 24 months. Correct answer? 27 months. Well, I'm, listen, stop. You just, let's, let's, let's, let's,

wrap this. Thank you very much for nothing but net. Hey, you guys, appreciate you watching. This is going to be a shutout. That's good. So what they call it a shutout? Yeah. Okay. What is the score, Colby? So the score is four points out of three sentencing. So four for three. So you got a little buffer. Yeah. This is that feeling you feel. That's how I feel. Yeah. Typically. I'm so proud of you. Because I've lost. After 25 episodes, you're finally getting the hang of your show. Matt Cox. Yes. Do you like Dix?

I was in Dix, sporting's good yesterday. This is a story about Dick's sporting goods. Is it really? Yeah, you took the bait. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you were going to clutch your pearls about Dix. But that's what we're talking about, Dick's sporting goods.

You like that? And you like that as a sporting goods store? Like if you had to choose between the different sporting goods stores. I mean, I like, what's the, gosh, what's the big one? The outdoor one. Academy? No, no, no. Bass pro shop.

Fast pro shop. It's like a museum. Because we walked around Dix and what I was, I thought, so I dropped my cell phone, we had, we just went in there because I knew Jess would love it in there. She goes straight to the fishing things. But I thought, do they have guns? They don't have guns. And I thought guns because I thought, I wonder if they have that, the air gun. You know, you know, Dog the Bataring Hunter?

Yeah. He came in here. He came. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. You told me. Because you know, yeah. Yeah. He was, he was in Hawaii.

and that's where dog was. But he came in when he walked in the other day, he had a gun on him. Dwayne Chapman walks around with a sidearm? Yeah. And I looked at it. And I remember thinking, fuck,

like, he had a stake case. Like, did he get it expunge? Like, how does he? So at some point, I asked him about the weapon.

Yeah. And it's an air gun. Oh, okay. But it looks just like a regular, like, especially in the holster. Do you think he's carrying it for as part of his look and his brand?

I think it's partially effect. I don't think he thinks he's in trouble. But it is an air. And he said it shoots rubber bullets. I have one that shoots pepper bullets, the pepper thing. But I thought, I never even thought about the rubber. And he said, oh, no. He said it's powerful to it.

It's just a CO2 cartridge. You know, because I've often thought, like, you know, in this business, like, what if something happens? You know, what if somebody comes to my house? I know. I think the air gun is a fine idea until you run into someone with a real gun. Yeah. Then you're the guy who brought a knife to a gun fight. He's going, ooh, ooh, ooh, that's smart.

Yeah. Right. I'll tell you what a real one does. And to get out of jail free card for the guy who decides to blow you away when you pull the air gun on here. No, I would probably just have one in my nightstand. Got it. I'm not carrying it. All right.

Let's talk about this. And so we got two dudes in this story. Yeah. One is 63-year-old Frank, Frank Porio, lived in Gibsonia, Pennsylvania. Okay. He's got a buddy name Ray. Ray works in data analytics in the corporate offices of Dick's sporting goods. I don't know what Frank does for living.

It doesn't matter. But Frank figured out a way to exploit his friend's job who worked at Dix to make some serious illegal money. Okay. So because of his unique access, Ray, the guy who works for Dick's sporting goods, has non-public insider information at Dix about corporate quarterly earnings before they're released. Okay? See what this is going? And now, Ray can't trade stock on that insider information. Yeah, right?

It's not his name. He would get a lot of trouble. Oh, you can't do it in anyone's name because that would be a crime. Right. Insider trading. Insider trading is a crime. And Ray's a rule follower. Ray doesn't want to touch that with a 10-foot pull, but he's got this dickhead friend Frank

who sees an opportunity who begins hounding Ray for the information about unreleased earnings. You know, just bugging him and texting him and calling him and they run into each other. It's like, but he's just between us, just between us type of thing. And finally, Ray breaks down and provides Frank with the data. But Ray warns Frank, do not trade stocks with this information I just gave you. Under no circumstances, we are just two guys talking. That's not, that's no good. That doesn't, that doesn't help at all.

That's not going to. Frank immediately gets to work making stock and options trades, making $800,000. Using Ray's not a second raising RF. Using Ray's insider information. He's like, they can't touch me because I don't. work for dicks. Right. Right? Like, you know, prove it. Yeah, I tell you, I tell that to Martha Stewart. Yeah. Frank does not share a penny with Ray. And Ray never asked for any money. Okay. But insider trading of insider data is still a crime, Matt Cox, whether you are the insider or not. And that's kind of my

moral to the story here, is that this hot stock tip, you know, he knew it was insider information. And so Frank's trade set off alarm bells at the Securities and Exchange Commission, because they have software to see who's buying stock right before quarterly earnings, then who's selling it, and then they begin exploring it. And so the SEC smells a rat, but the SEC, fantastic investigators, I've worked dozens of cases with them, no criminal authority. They're a civil regulatory agency, so what they do, when they need a little muscle behind their investigations that they call the FBI.

Right. Okay. They do. And the FBI goes and interviews Ray. The interview Ray who does tell the truth about his indiscretion. Like I think they begin taking a look at phone records or social media and they see that Frank knows Ray. Ray has the keys to the kingdom. We got text matches, his phone calls. They interview Ray. Ray is like, he was bothering me. I told him the information.

I told him not to trade stocks. I didn't make a penny on this thing. I didn't do that. Ray, I imagine he gets fired. Let's start with just a yes or no. And this doesn't part of the game. Do you think Ray gets charged? The guy who works for Dix?

I think a lot of times the FBI, that's just FBI, it's just federal authorities in general, let the lower guys go. And even though he seems crucial, I think he probably should have been charged, but I don't think he probably was. I mean, he did not conspire with Frank or make any money. I feel he did conspire.

He didn't make any money, and that doesn't make it. It doesn't matter that you didn't make it. People that always, I didn't even make any money. It doesn't matter that you didn't make it. What crime are you going to charge it with? It's like saying, I planned and drove the two guys to the bank where I used to work and they robbed and robbed the bank, but I didn't make any money. You go, fuck, if you made any money, you just helped with the bank robbery.

That's different, though. What are you going to charge Ray with? If you were the hanging prosecutor on this thing. Probably like wire fraud or, or is there an actual charge insider information? insider trading is a federal crime crime but here's the thing if i'm the case agent on this thing i got a dilemma in my hands let's say i'm an asshole and i want to see a guy like ray in an orange jumpsuit just because i want my stats right there are agents out there who chase stats i was one of them for sure um i don't know what to charge him with because it's not like classified information like he like

he's just sharing insider information with somebody you're not supposed to share insider information you're not supposed to but it's not a crime for me to go to um me to tell you something, right? It's a crime in unless, unless we're going to be using it for insider trading. It's different than like a military guy on a sub giving the nuclear launch codes to the Chinese guy, right? Because that's classified information. Dix isn't classified. They're not government. I'm not sure what the crime is. But you're saying there is a crime on insider trading. Absolutely. But you're saying he didn't trade. He didn't trade anything. In fact, is there a conspiracy to trade? Because I feel he did conspire to trade. He didn't.

Do it, but he helped this guy in his scheme. Right. But again, let's assume that he's telling the truth. Right. And he said, okay, here's the information. Do not trade stocks with this. Right. I think that's just silliness.

That's that he, I think he said that because he thought that kind of gave him an out. Some air cover. Yeah. But I don't think he was charged because I think it was probably, I think he has such a minimal role. Yeah. And either way, I don't think if he was charged, I don't think he shouldn't go to jail. I think they could give him a year, but he'd be a felon.

Yeah. I don't think he was charged, but I think he could have been charged. And I would have probably charged him with conspiracy to commit insider trading. Commit insider trading. Yeah. Was he charged? No. Good. No, he wasn't.

I think that's, I think he could have been. And probably should have been, but I'm glad he wasn't. He's just, he's just, come on, peer pressure. Well, you get bothering. Peer pressure, you're a grown man. Come on, man. I get it. Frank, on the other hand, was criminally charged with security fraud and pleads guilty. The government swoops in and takes the 800 grand sitting in his bank account. Right. And because there's no victim, they get to put that in the U.S. Treasury and enjoy that money. Right? Because the victim is the stock market itself. There's no way to get that money back. And it doesn't go to Dix. And so he pleads guilty. 800 grand insider trading case for Frank. I'm sure Ray got off because he agreed to testify against Frank, if necessary.

It was not necessary. Right. As Frank played guilty. How much time are you going to give him? Yeah. I mean, I think, oh, gosh, I hate to even say 24 months. I hate to say even 24 months. Well, if you hate to say it, what are you going to say?

I think 24 months. I think 24 months. I want you to be firm in you. I don't want you to hate your guess. I want you to like your guess. I think 24 months. 24 months. Two years in prison for hounding your friend and then buying stock and selling stock?

Stop. Stop. You're not going to get me. 24 months. 24 months. How much? That's final answer? Yes.

You sure? Yeah. He's not even really having any victims. And he got the money back. Really, even 24 months seems high. 12 months really seems more reasonable. All right. Is that what you want to go with?

24 months. 24 months. Not 12. No. Money for. Not probation, which would be zero months. It's $800,000. Recovered, nonviolent crime.

It's 24 months. Okay. Final answer? Yes. All right. The correct answer is 12 months. Oh, wait, 12 months and one day. But you're still there.

I got it. 12 months in one day? Yeah. Oh, because they wanted him to get the extra 15% off. Yeah. Followed by three months of home detention and 12 months of supervised release and a $20,000 fine on top of it. I still would have, if I had been under the 12 months, by the way, if I had, I would argue because because the home confinement, I would say is still confinement.

Oh, interesting. Because this guy, you've got an ankle monitor on you. A more interesting question is, had you said 12 months and it's 12 months in one day, would Colby have awarded you two points? Colby and I are on the same. Yeah, I know, exactly. This is two against one. Not today.

Not today. The deck is dad. I am kicking ass. You are. I am. So you saw the new Spider-Man movie. Yes. Do you like it?

Yeah, I thought it was good. You know what it wasn't over the time? You know what I liked? Here's what I hate about these movies, these Marvel movies. I hate where they, they, it's so over the top. They're lifting up buildings and throwing. They're being thrown through five buildings. Yeah.

They're being, like, I hate. that the over-the-top stupidity of these fight sequences that go on for 10 minutes it's like you know what I need I need all of about a minute and a half to two minute of a fight scene

that's all I need I don't need your fucking 15 minute fight scene that's so... No I felt good about it the only thing I didn't like was when the Hulk like grabs him and he's like

bam bam and I thought come on bro stop it it's too much like nothing is surviving I don't care your spide fucking straight I stepped on lots of spiders.

So I know that that's not the case. And I don't think the other thing they really, I don't think they got into the fact that he's fighting the anacra. What is it? What is it? Anacro. What is it for a spider? Oh,

Arakhanid. Arakhan. He's fighting his arachnid. I felt that it was the biological storyline about like, it didn't have to be there. Like, so he's going to shoot the, he's going to like shoot webs organically as opposed to a machine. Like that's, there was a difference without a distinction that didn't really work. Right.

It never went in. And they never really. You never went anywhere. Yeah. It's like, oh, you're trying to suppress it. Like, okay, whatever. You've got enough storylines. You don't need this fourth storyline.

And that added an extra five or 10 minutes to the, I didn't need the extra 10 minutes of the, of screen time. But other than that, I thought it was great. And I thought the Punisher character was great. So good. He's so good. He's a good. I like him and everything. Yeah, everything.

From walking dead to everything I've ever seen him. And he's, he's amazing. Even he was placed. I don't know. in that horrible. Frank Grillo? No. It's not. He plays in the movie, the accountant. He plays his brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. He's great in the, he's great in everything. Yeah, he's good in everything. What I loved about the new Spider-Man movie was sort of the string theme of, I'm a sucker for any movie about the enduring power of friendship. Oh, yeah, yeah. I just love that storyline about how, like, you know, even though they had been like hypnotized, to forget who Peter Parker was. There was something in them, that enduring power of friendship

that had to play out. I thought that storyline really worked for me. And even when they didn't remember him, they slipped right back into the friendship, even when they didn't really know him. You know what I'm saying? They had that little moment. It was like a handshake and all that.

Yeah, I don't know. I like the movie a lot. I thought it was the strongest installment in the Spider-Man series. Cool. One of the things I've always enjoyed about Spider-Man is that, quote, with great power comes great responsibility.

Yeah. And it's so brilliant. And do you know who wrote that? Is that Stan? Yeah. Stanley, Stanley, 1962, the first time it appeared in print, attributable to Spider-Man, was Amazing Fantasy No. 15, an early Spider-Man.

And Stan Lee did that. But if you kind of scratched the surface a little bit, that was a, there's a version of that exact same quote that goes back to 1793, which is one of the revolutionary mottos of the French revolution. With great power comes great responsibility. responsibility. Nice. Interesting. When you become a branch manager at a bank, that is great power. And it also comes with great responsibility. Well, you think they have to take an oath? Do you think they get all the branch managers together and do like a... Well, think about it. You have broad access to cash, deposits, the internal financial controls at your branch. And but if your moral compass is wonky, you have a tremendous opportunity to steal. Right. Do you ever talk about the triad? It's sort of the heart of my live show is...

I think it's very true, too, by the way. Yeah. Opportunity, rationalization, and pressure. Yeah. 34-year-old Jeff Castro of Lawrence, Massachusetts. I imagine that's near Boston, was a branch manager at Citizens Bank in Tewksbury, Massachusetts, and he had a position of authority.

He had the keys to the kingdom. He ran the branch. What nobody knew is that he had a sports gambling problem, Matt Cox. You know what his problem was? he was shitty at sports gambling. Right, right? So he places losing bets on the weekend, which tells me it was probably NFL,

and then he would come in on Monday and knew that he was screwed, right? Maybe he didn't even stay up late for the results of the Sunday night game. He saw them Monday morning, and he was screwed. And so, you know, these sports apps, they're just bleeding him dry because those Boston teams never cover the spread.

I don't know if he knew that. And one morning, Jeff realized, is that he has a solution to his insolvency. Christ, he works at a bank. There's cash everywhere. Yeah, yeah. And so he tells himself that if you could just borrow enough money from the bank, maybe next week the New England Patriots will cover the spread,

and you can win it all back and make everything right. It's a rationalization part of that. Of every Ponzi scheme that was ever created. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what could go wrong? Because all you need to do is begin winning, and one team has to win, taking on a 50-50 shot there, and then you can replace the money you stole and enjoy the profits for yourself to maybe even bet next week.

Right. You get that. Mondays roll around, and Jeff would steal, I mean borrow, cash from the bank's ATMs. I mean, that was like he realized that was sort of the weak point in the internal control system. And he would hide the wad of cash in his suit jacket, right, because they have the breast pockets. Oddly, women's suit jackets do not have breast pockets, but they have breasts. It's interesting, isn't it? So how does he take it?

Is this actual cash? Yeah, ATMs. ATM spit out cash. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. Yeah, I mean, but my God, how do you just, are you able to just go scoop some up? Well, then what he does is he covers the ATM theft by diverting money from incoming cash shipments, right? Because banks are receiving cash shipments from the Federal Reserve or whatever.

Right. And so that goes into the vault. So he's lightening that, replacing that money in the ATM, taking the ATM money, putting it in his breast pocket of this. That's a lot. This is a lot. It's a ton of work to keep things balanced. This is anxiety.

Yeah. And there's cameras. Yeah, exactly. But again, look at it from Jeff's point of view. This is just a temporary solution to a temporary problem. Because at some point, the bets are going to start paying off. Of course. It's always going to work out.

It never doesn't work out. Yeah, exactly. And eventually these Boston teams are going to get up their lazy asses and start playing some good ball. Yeah. Right. Unfortunately, that never happened, Matt Cox. No. Yeah.

Jeff was forced to steal more money and more money to cover. everything up until he took it turns out he had taken three hundred seventy five thousand dollars over a fifteen month period right right okay um finally bank auditors because the citizens bank they have traveling audit teams who go from branch to branch doing um cash audits and stuff like that they find that the cash count in the vault was severely deficient and uh and that they're you know they also notice a discrepancy in the ATM funds and they call in the internal bank investigators which is a different staff than the auditors at Jeff is interviewed by the internal bank security investigators, most of whom are former FBI agents or former police officers and sort of a post-retirement job for a lot of people like me.

And he provides a full confession to them. They fire him from his job, as expected. And they call in the FBI to kind of drop the hammer on this young gambler. He doesn't put up much of a fight at all. He pleads guilty to the bank embezzlement. He promises to pay the money back when he gets. gets out of prison, no criminal history. Right.

So we have $375,000 over a 15-month period, young man with no criminal history, but he had great power and great responsibility. So you know what's so funny is that there's an enhancement for being in a position of trust. Yeah, there is. Yeah. Yep. Position of trust.

And more than minimal planning is another enhancement. Yeah, yeah. Sophisticated means. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so he's got some enhancements. He's got some enhancements. But in your worldview where money doesn't really matter, $375,000 are just walking around money. And it's a bank.

I know, yeah. It's all made up. Who cares about a bank? Yeah, they're only the cornerstone of our nation's economy, Matt Cox. I feel like we're back to 24 months. 24 months? You seem like a guy who just can't get off that 24 months train. Seems like a real problem.

And he did not pay it back. He doesn't have the money. He doesn't. He doesn't. You know who has the money draft games. Yeah. But what's interesting is that he can use the whole defense, which is almost like saying, hey, I'm an addict. But he could, he absolutely can say I'm an addict.

Sure. And I think there's probably something to that. Yeah. You don't give, but you're not giving them. I'm not giving them one point off for it. I know you are. I know you're going to roll out the red carpet for him and give him a foot massage. I mean, they say they're an addict.

Oh, let's see. Let's go 30 months. 30 months in prison. For a non-violent crime with an institution who should have been watching, out auditing a little more aggressively, you're going to put this guy in prison for 30 months. He's also a sports fan of the same teams that the judge is really into. He probably has a boxing. You think he wore the shirt like a jersey.

Go all in. Go all in. Knowing the judge. Right, exactly. Because the judge was probably wildly disappointed with some of the Patriots play as well. Yeah. I've never felt more confident. Then you're trying to move me off 30 months.

No, I think 30 months. I think because I'm also thinking that there's two enhancements there. This wasn't a stupid crime. No, you've thought this through. Well, this wasn't a stupid crime. Like, he did take advantage of a position of trust. To me, it's like a police officer, like, or, you know, law enforcement or a judge or somebody, like, taking advantage of their position.

It's like, okay, you actually deserve extra. time because you people trust you you you're smearing the um you know whatever if only he had read more spider man he would have understood that was great power comes great responsibility so uh what's your guess you're all 30 months 30 months he's a douchebag but i still think 30 months final answer yeah all right uh you guess 30 months the correct answer is one year and one day in prison oh i missed it i I should have stuck with 24 months. I lost. I lost.

Can I go to the bathroom? Yes, five of five. Right. What? You're five and five because you had a buffer. Yeah. Fill a shut out. You're doing good.

So I went to the doctor the other day and another PA comes in, right? Uh-huh. Because I don't really see the doctor. They're just refilling like prescriptions or checking my blood. Yeah. And she came in. She's like, so she sits down. And she said, so, and I don't know this one.

I've never seen this one. And she said, so something happened with, she said, so as I'm sure you realize, she's like, I'm not Amanda. I was like, right, right? She said, so she doesn't work here anymore. And I went, okay. Like, I don't care. I don't care.

I'm like, okay. And she said, she was, I'm not really sure what, what's going on there. Like, I don't know what happened. Internally, this is the scuttle works. I was like, I was like, like, well, you'll let me know. If you find that, she's like, okay. So anyway, I looked at your stuff. I've got your blood work here.

Did you ever hit you up? No, there's just this little moment that I thought was funny. I was like, well, keep me informed. I'm really invested. Yeah. That's funny. I don't know this person. It's good.

So score-wise, you're doing great. So we've had five questions thus far, and your score is five because one of them was a two-for-sor. And so you got a bonus. So you're doing great. So keep up the good work. We talk a lot about embezzlement cases here because it's my favorite type of crime. We haven't really talked a lot about theft of inventory. It's a very unique kind of embezzlement, right?

Because instead of stealing money from the company, you're stealing the products that the company manufactures. Right. Kind of fell off the back of the truck. Yeah, yeah. So there's a company called Nutrient Ag Solutions. They sell chemicals, including fertilizers and stuff like that, to large agricultural companies and farms.

And for the last 20 years, the company employed a guy named Chris McElfelder to manage the facility in Madison County, Alabama. Okay. Okay. That's the setup. What the employer didn't know is that Chris was stealing containers of agricultural chemicals from the warehouse right out the back door. We're talking pesticides, insecticides, fungicides, and herbicides. Okay. Is there a big market for that, I guess? Here's what he's doing. He begins selling those stolen chemicals to an unwitting broker who pays Chris wholesale prices for these products. I imagine these to be giant. just barrels of chemicals. Right. Right. And then what Chris does is he ships those chemicals via FedEx to the broker who sells them on the open market.

Okay. And then what the broker does is, he sends a check to Chris for the wholesale value of these chemicals, right? But it's 100% profit for Chris because he didn't even at a discount. It's 100% profit. Yeah, yeah, because he's stealing him from nutrient, right? He was able to cover up his theft through some clever manipulation of the inventory system at his employer.

and he was able to pull this off, Matt Cox, reflect on this for 11 years. And he makes $6 million over that 11 year period selling these boosted chemicals. Good job. Yeah. That's why probably anytime they asked that, they said, hey, we'd like to move you up to Mandra.

I'm happy here in the warehouse here, Alabama. Good yalla. I love my warehouse job. He's a straw in his mouth. Now, Nutrient, eventually stumbles upon this because there's this broker out there who's selling their chemicals. And then at a discount. They're like, how's that possible?

No. They're selling in a retail. The broker. Oh, I didn't realize. I'm sorry. Yeah, whatever. Who knows? I mean, but the bottom of mind is the, how's he getting our stuff?

Yeah. How's he getting our stuff, right? Like if I begin selling like Lulu Lemon clothing on eBay, at some point, someone from Lulu Lemon lost prevention is going to be like, where's this guy getting this amount of Lulu lemon clothing to sell on eBay? Right. Same type of thing. So Nutrient looks into it and they see that this broker has no business relationship with Nutrient, and they conduct an internal investigation, and which reveals that the broker's supplier was Chris.

Okay. The company calls in the FBI who investigates the scheme, nails it all down. It's time to come knock at Chris's door. FBI agents show up to his house. Sit, sit him down. Chris, we've got to talk. Provides the FBI agents a full confession, because they are good. They do. They're the heroes.

He gets charged a fraud, pleads guilty. So we got 11 years. His gross, gross income from this scheme is $6 million selling stolen agricultural chemicals out of the back door of the warehouse, sending him FedEx to a broker who is selling him in good faith. How much time are you going to give old Chris? Chris McElfielder of Madison County, Alabama. I don't say. You've been saying 24 months of great success. Yeah.

I don't believe he has a criminal history. Yeah. No, it's he's sophisticated means, but there's one victim. There's, right, it's a company victim.

So you have no problem with that in this crime ethically. I didn't say that. I'm just saying, nobody owns this company. In general, I'm saying it's not like, nobody owns the company.

12 people's at the church, 12 people at the church, you know, and that's different. I think seven it was this funny that's my restitution amount but uh we're in two different spots of our lives in places I'm sure 72 either I'd say somewhere I want to say 60 maybe 72 months maybe 60 you said he played he he rolled over right away that does that helps yeah if you make them chase you for a year where you're throwing motions and I'm not guilty and it They get to the point where they're like, yeah, we're not working with you. I'm going to say five years.

I'm going to say 60 months. Five years. Yeah, I wanted to say 72, but I'm thinking that I mentioned it was a nonviolent crime. 60 months. 60 months. I feel like because you said that, I now start. Oh, you're locked in now. I hit it on the head.

It's 60 months. He owes that. He's probably got three years paper, three to five, probably six. probably three years paper after five years, 60 months. So it's five years in prison for the $6 million. Six million, which is funny because it probably sounds low to people.

But it is an unviolent crime and it is his first time. If he was in category two or three, he'd be in 10, 12. Yeah. So, but the only reason it's, I think sophisticated means, I don't think he has a lot of enhancements.

More than minimal planning position of trust. maybe position or trust. I still think, so that's what maybe would it be 72 months. But let's say 60 because you were trying to move me off it, I feel. 60 months. My goodness, you're so wrapped up on the psychology of this thing. So is that your final answer? 60 months, five years in prison?

Yes. He got five years in prison, back. Oh. Good job. It's taking me a while. We'll get the, maybe do this three years now. Episode 25, you finally understand the game? Oh, I almost want to call Jeff.

All right, so we need to interrupt this broadcast at this point. And Sid you just guessed the sentence and let the audience know kind of what's going on. I'm sure they're wondering and I want to fill the audience and I'll speak directly to you guys. I'm transitioning. But not in the way you think. We are transitioning together from the Inside True Crime with Matthew Cox podcast into a weekly show, Tom Simon and Matt Cox. We're going to be playing the guest the sentence game. We're going to be talking true crime, but we're going to be doing it weekly with new episodes coming out Wednesday at noon on our own YouTube channel.

I hope you come with us and subscribe there as well. It's going to be the same fun show, just more of it with inside true crime style discussions and then the guest the sentence game. So come on with us right now. We're ending this episode here. We're going to finish this episode on the new channel. Tom Simon and Matt Cox, please join us. you guys if you want to watch the rest of this video go ahead and click on the video link right here also when you get over there to the new channel we have no subscriber so please subscribe

immediately and click the bell so you get notified of videos just like this one on the new channel really appreciate it it's the tom simon matthew cock show thank you very much see you