Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Mastermind Art Thief Shares His Secrets | The Picasso Of Thieves

Episode Date: August 30, 2023

Mastermind Art Thief Shares His Secrets | The Picasso Of Thieves

So how long were you painting and doing this? 35 years. Are you serious? 35 years? I mean, how often were you taking stuff? All the time. Right. The addiction got so bad, Matthew, and the thing is that when something becomes so easy,

and I'm going to tell you, this is all psychological. This has nothing to do with whatever you may think it is. This is all psychological game. The planning, what you're going to pick out, the people. in the room, who could possibly get blamed, decides myself, because I'm a clean-cut guy. You put me up against an Irish guy that I was working with that's drinking all the time and comes in Monday morning. It's obvious.

He took it. You know what I'm saying? Hey, this is Matt Cox. I am going to be interviewing Picasso. He is an art thief that was tremendously successful and he did it in a really interesting. interesting, unique way. And I'm actually going to be going to the premiere of a movie or a documentary about him. And so let's go ahead and check out the interview. Let's start at the, I mean, the beginning. Like, where were you, where were you born? I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York,

sunset parks being back. And I mean, how were you raised, you know, middle class, lower middle class, We were below poverty level, specifically. My dad wasn't in my life, so it was just my mom. My mom had myself, my little brother, and my two older sisters. So it was, you know, she was on food stamps, but she worked. But, you know, we would wake up sometimes without food in the refrigerator. And it was hard. It wasn't easy.

Okay. So what did you, so do you graduate high school or did you? you. I went straight from a high school, which was Fort Hamilton High School to Kingsborough Community College. And then I attended a business school at York Business School in Manhattan. Okay. You know, my thing was, my thing, Matthew, was that after my father left, I had a really traumatic incident with my father. My father was an alcoholic and he verbally and physically abused my mother. you know so after he left he left when I was sick but um at the age of 10 I realized that

I couldn't let my mother you know struggle alone so I got a job with the Daily News as a paperboy you know I did the hustle I learned really early in my life you know I think most of my education wasn't in school it was on the street so you but eventually I mean eventually you graduated high school you went on to try and you wanted to help help your mom on a you wanted to make some money, help her out. Like, what was your plan to, what were you planning on doing for a living? As a kid, the whole time I went straight through junior high school and high school and college and even the business school I took accounting. But then I realized that I couldn't, I have a lot of anxiety.

I suffer from severe anxiety. Like, you have no idea. So I figured I couldn't do a company. I can't sit behind a desk doing some numbers. So I got a job as a painter when I was 19. And that was it. I mean, I was on Park Avenue. My first real gig as a professional painter was right on Park Avenue

for the 1% of America, the richest, the ultra wealthy of America. Well, when you say a painter, you mean what type of? of a painter. Just a regular house. You were painting buildings. Yeah. Commercial. All residential.

All decorative finishes, all finishes, gold leafing, wood graining. A lot of exotic finishes like marmarino where we put the finish on the wall. And then we put some micastones in it. So that way it shows like diamonds out through your wall. It's just beautiful finishes. All exotic. stuff that comes from Paris. All the finishes that they have in Paris,

we duplicate on sample boards, and we do this on some of the highest grossing buildings in Manhattan, you know, 770 Park Avenue, you know, some of the billionaires row, you name it, and you've done it. On day one, I walked into Park Avenue. This was a $250 million apartment, gorgeous apartment. I mean, windows from the floor, literally from the floor to the ceiling. You know, 68th floor of this building, amazing building.

But anyway, there was so much artwork that the artwork was not only hanging on the walls, but it was in boxing, you know, I was ready to go to where it was going to go. And at that point, I felt love. I mean, I've always loved art, but not to that extent. It's one thing to see it from a distance in a museum that you can't touch it, you can't feel it. But it literally is something else to be in front of it. It's something that will change your life. I mean, if you can understand art, art is not something that you just,

it's not a guy with a brush, it's zigzagging the thing, and, you know, that's what he did. You know what I'm saying? This is something that someone put a lot of passion and love into when people follow the artwork. I mean, people follow artwork all around the world for years, you know, there's followers, there's dedicated followers. Right. But on this job, that was it. That was the key that I got to Park Avenue with all that artwork.

How are you going to resist that? You see, I've always been a criminal. It was just been scales to it, you know what I'm saying? It's always been, you know, since I was 10, I've always been. a hustler. So by the time I got to 19, forget about it. But you weren't an artist yourself. Like you didn't actually, you didn't do art. You just, you just had a passion for it. And now you're I had a passion for. But now I was walking into, to, um, and with this company that we did specialty finishes. So if you translate the special, specialty finishes, and so let's say,

regular paintings you know it's the same language there's no difference what happened like what at what was the first time that you

you know well I guess what was the one what was the first time you actually took something and what was the plan were you thinking eh these people have a lot of stuff

they're not going to miss this one thing or were you thinking I can sell this No. No, you see, it was never a monetary thing because artwork, artwork is unlike anything else. Artwork is, there's no black market for artwork. Somebody tells you there is like, you know, it should, you know, I'm not going to call my cousin Louie and say, yo, Louis, what's the number for the black market again? You know, that doesn't exist. Artwork, I, yeah, it's meant to be appreciated and it would be an insult just to sell.

it to some random person it's just that's not what i did it for i did it for the thrill i did it for the ability to see if i can do it and the plan came together on the very first job and i never stopped after that so what was the first job the very first job was the park avenue job and when i saw this particular painting it was a small painting it wasn't that It wasn't this extravagant painting. And at the beginning, I didn't know what the value of the painting was either. But I fell in love with the painting, and I decided that that painting was going to go with me. We spent two months on that job, and by the end of those two months, I had already duplicated it.

It was a very simple duplication. It wasn't a complicated painting. it was one of those pencil etches you know I duplicated it myself by who I couldn't tell you that okay I was saying you know like it's funny because I know that you know that you know Picasso was so I don't know if you know this I I have a degree in fine arts from the Oh, no, no, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, from the University of South Florida, which, so I'm actually an artist. So I don't know.

Yeah, I, so, I mean, I, watch a couple of the things, but you don't mention that. You're always into the podcast, into the person you're interviewing. So I do that. I do YouTube. I wrote a bunch of books when I was in prison, a bunch of true crime books. I wrote a memoir about myself. and then I got out and you know I liked true crime so I started also I started doing a podcast when I got out I didn't think I was actually you know I didn't really know how to do any of this but I just kind of figured it out you know had some people help me and and now it's starting to come together but in the meantime I did artwork and people buy my artwork and so yeah so that's why I was saying like it's like so I know so when you know you say Picasso like Picasso like Picasso was one of the few artists and that was famous during his lifetime you know what I mean like most artists they scraped by you know

and then they you know they passed away and then their artwork became worth something later in life like there wasn't a lot of artists you know Edward Munch was never like he sold like one painting his whole life like you know now he's huge now you know they're huge paintings and but Picasso was famous in his lifetime. And one of the things I know that he did is I know that there are hundreds of little drawings he did. Like he would be at a restaurant, someone would recognize him. And they say, oh, can I get your, this is, these are the stories I heard. I'm sure you probably know more than I do. But one of the things I had always, we'd always heard was the stories were that like he'd be at a restaurant and someone would come up to him and say, can I get your,

your autograph and he'd go, yeah, yeah, just let me finish and I'll give you an autograph. They'd go, okay. And then he'd finish up his meal and he would doodle something on a napkin or a piece of paper and sign his name and give it to him. So they'd get this little thing that was, no, baby's just cute. But now they're selling for 35 and 45 and 50 and $100,000 for little doodles and people have them. So that's why when, And, you know, I heard that, you know, your story and I heard that you, you know, because I watched part of it where they, you know, I guess at some point you kind of looked around and you realized like, nobody's here. Nobody's watching me. There's no cameras.

There's all this. No, that wasn't my phone. That was my thought process. No. That was the second time I've been there. Yeah, that was the second time I was there. Oh, this was, this was, I thought you ultimately, you did this, you did it, I thought you did it in several different places, though, right? You didn't look around and think nobody's watching?

This particular, the very last time where I was, when the reality show was filmed, I had been to this particular mansion out in King's Point on a prior occasion a few years ago. and everything that went missing on that time let's just say 10% of it was reported missing and 90% was never reported missing you know so

when I went back to the house the second time you see there's a lot of things that changed from first time and second time the second time I went back to the house when the house was fully bugged with cameras and the SWAT was there

and they were everywhere. I was high. I had smoked two blunts. You know, to get to work that morning, I smoked two blunts. I was calm. You know, life was good. You know, I had nothing to worry about.

So all the red flags, I avoided the red flags. You know, there was so many red flags. There was a red flag that there was a hallway door that I had previously, remember, I was in the house before. So there was a hallway door that goes from one side to the other

and that hallway door was locked and I knew what was on the other side of the door because I already had been on the other side of the door but I should have abandoned ship at that point. That would have been a red flag would have been no go

but I was high, I was calm you know I got a little maybe a little sloppy you know and at that point I felt that home I was checking my signatures validating the painting and I was taking what I wanted. That was it.

Well, but this isn't the first time. This is... No, this is the last. Okay. So the first time you take it, you swap out this piece of artwork.

Yeah, because I didn't want to steal it. Right. And we just plain I'll feel it. If you see it's stolen, it's gone, obviously. If you take that poster

beyond me, I'll know it's gone. Right. But if you swap it out, then you don't know anything is going on. Right. And so they didn't notice. They never noticed. And we took, this is over a span of, I believe the apartment took us, this was just an apartment.

I believe it took us three months to paint the apartment. Okay. So it was in a span three months from the planning to the execution. That's a long time to paint an apartment. You can pay my whole house in a day. This is Park Avenue. This is a, you charge $10,000 a room. You know, it's the best and the best.

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There was nothing inside the apartment. No, so there was nothing to, uh, it wasn't always, uh, it wasn't always, uh, it was either, it hit a miss. Right. But most apartments, 95% of apartments, usually had an art collection. And I mean art collection. Right. You're like 300, 400 pieces at the minimum.

That's a collection. Yeah. That's insane. And are all these, is all this famous artwork or is some people are just collector? know some people uh that's the thing is you see these people um i think you said it best at the very beginning of the show you said it best that most artists when they put stuff out they put it out nobody cares you know who cares so these people are just collecting things that they love they admire something that they want to decorate the house with something that would look good

an architectural digest because we've done that too is the architectural digest we've done a couple of issues architectural digest so you know this is not about investment in artwork

now the art the artist can blow even Andy Warhol Andy Warhol wasn't famous until the end right yeah I was going to say that there's lots of

there's lots of people that are just the rich people that they collected just because it's like oh, I like that piece and, you know, John and Mabel Ringling, you know, they, they collected tons and tons of stuff. And stuff they collected wasn't, you know, they just collected because they liked, like, I liked this piece. You know, they'd have one piece that was worth, you know, $100,000 next to another piece that you could find practically in a garage sale. You know what I'm

saying? It was worth virtually nothing, you know. But in the end, you know, almost everything ended up being ends up being worth something. But a lot of stuff that they collected, the artists weren't even weren't even well known at the time. And then after their death, the collection became worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

So, and I just always wonder if that's how it goes just in general. So how long were you painting, were you painting? And so, and over the span of this, these things like if the opportunity arises and there's something you see and you like and you think I can I can work work this out you you took advantage of that situation correct and then other

times there was just nothing there like you weren't interested in anything and I'm not interested because like you said you're not selling it you can't you can't go yeah the thing was I was supposedly have happening married you know supposed when we happily married, you know, great wife with great income, you know, the painting wasn't going to go anywhere and nobody's going to know where I got it from. You know, when I brought it home, I put it on a wall, you know, and nobody knew anything about value in my household. This wasn't, you know, so it just went on a regular wall in a regular house. But, you know, I appreciated it. It was always the centerpiece, something I can look at

every single day and admire, you know. Have you ever heard of the Gardner Museum heist? Yes, the one that I believe still is not solved. Yeah, right. Yeah. They, you know, like those paintings, like, I was thanked of myself, like, these guys stole a ton of paintings worth $100 million or $200 million. They can't move.

Like, you couldn't move those paintings. No. You can't sell those. Like, what is in the blue market? Right. I was just assuming I was thinking to myself like they're probably hanging on somebody's you know somebody's in someone's garage sitting in a garage or they're hanging on somebody's wall and they have no idea what's even on their wall or they think it's a it's a replica

they probably don't even realize what they have so did you ever come close to getting caught I got caught only that last time when they did the reality show and um That was the thing is, you know, if you listen, the name of the reality show is called the Brooklyn DA, and I'm featured in episode number one and three. And if you listen to the detective and you listen to the DA in the reality show, they pretty much tell you if he doesn't take anything, you don't have him on anything. Right. But remember, I was already there, and I just told you that 90% of the stuff was never reported.

So, you know, everything's on video. If you go out, you can YouTube it and you can see it. You can hear that comments and all that. But, dude, I was coming out of there with something. But the problem was, if I wouldn't just listen to the inside, the Spider-Sense, if I wouldn't have got arrested that day. I still would have been out and about. Your intuition, right?

Like, I always say that intuition, like you got to listen to your intuition. You got to, like, you know, it's funny too because intuition, like people shrug it off. But the truth is, like, every chick I've ever dated, knew I was, or cheated on, knew I was eating before. Like, nothing's wrong. They just know. And you're like, nah, you're crazy. You're crazy. And I'm thinking, what, everything's fine.

I didn't do anything. I came home at the same time. I did everything. How does she? Intuition, she knew. You know, if some girl you're dating, something's not right. if she comes home at the same time everything's but you know you're like nah what's something

something's up can't put your finger on your intuition tells you something's wrong you got to listen to it when I came out of the mansion I was in my Mercedes and I stopped at a stop sign and I look in the rear view of mirror

and I see a camera crew run across the road with a big light And I was like, that's odd. That is odd. I was so high. And then SWAT came from everywhere. Dude, they executed two search warrants, one in Pennsylvania at my house, where my ex-wife

was pregnant, and then one at my, at the job site in Kingspoint, Long Island. At the same exact time, it's been second. So this reality TV show, what they, How did, tell me about that. I don't know even know what that is. The Brooklyn DA is a reality show about cases that were specifically taken on by the Brooklyn District Attorney. And it profiles my case as a case of a very prestigious art collection that a painter walks into one day and walked out with paintings. And they show me in an episode number one and three.

And they had the whole mansion rig. Not only the mansion, they had the, like I said, the camera crew was running across the street. They had another camera crew in Pennsylvania, you know, for the SWAT team. You know,

it was a whole reality show put together. And it led to some very strange and eerie circumstances throughout my case that, Matt, I could tell you, we're insane. You know what I'm saying? It was just crazy.

You're saying reality. TV show. I mean, it sounds more like a sting. It was a thing, but it was also reality. They were, so they knew you had taken something. They thought. They thought. They put, they rigged the whole place with cameras. They

put it, put it a situation together that they knew you'd be in the mansion by yourself and they just hoped you take something. Yes. Okay. What did you take? I took Picasso painting. I took a Debofei and I took one other.

I forgot the name of it. But the crazy thing is two of the paintings were never recovered and they still let me out. Isn't that weird? Right. Because... Maybe they were hoping you would lead them to the paintings. Yeah. I should have enough of that one.

How long ago? What year was this? This was... We're going to go ten years ago. About 2011, 2012, somewhere around there. So how long were you painting and doing this? 35 years. Are you fucking serious?

35 years? I mean, how often were you taking stuff? All the time. The addiction got so bad, Matthew. And the thing is that when something becomes so easy, That's the thing is, you know, and I'm going to tell you, this is all psychological. This has nothing to do with whatever you may think it is. This is all psychological game.

The planning, what you're going to pick out, the people in the room, who could possibly get blamed, decide myself. You know, because I'm a clean-cut guy. You put me up against an Irish guy that I was working with that's drinking all the time and comes in Monday morning. have drunk it's obvious he took it you know what i'm saying so yeah um i was going to say yeah you weren't selling them so it's not like you it's not like you look like you needed them you needed the money so and you're and every are you replacing them with duplicates every time yes well uh this i'm going to say there's nine times that i can remember that i didn't replace them because i knew that It wasn't going to be messed.

You know, it was in a storage area somewhere. When people put things in storage, especially on Park Avenue, Madison Avenue, storage is for your skateboard. It's not for a Monet. It's not for a Picasso. It's not for none of that. You know, you shouldn't be putting your divasurface

inside the storage box in the basement. There's roaches down there. You're crazy? Okay, so this has been going on for a long time. Eventually they catch up with you. How many paintings did you have? On me? Well, that they called you.

I thought you think. They only found the three that were in the car. You know, they only found the three that were in the car. Oh, I thought they didn't do a search, like go and search your house. Oh, yeah, they did. They weren't going to find anything there. All right. Why would I put them in my house?

Come on. well i would think you would you said like you wanted to enjoy him you said you liked them no now with this girl let me tell you something um my ex-wife my ex-wife she she's a ride to die my ex-wife she i was married for a very long time 21 years god bless you know but then i separated and i got hooked up with the mother of my kids now this is a type of girl that she would we got pulled over one time in Jersey and I believe

I took the charge for DUI because I was driving she wanted me to take a charge for a marijuana cigarette in the front of the car and I'm thinking to myself damn she would wrap me out and sell my knee down the fucking river in a second this one right here you know there was no way I would bring

anything over there you kidding me oh my God she gets pissed off she'd be called me SCI Arts Division. All right. So they grab your stuff, they go to your house, they don't find anything. How do you end up doing the documentary? Did you write a book?

Did you, were you approached? How'd you end up with the documentary? This is the deal, Matthew. And I think you're going to find this the most intriguing. You know, I don't know why? Because when I was in Rikers, I went from Rikers to Nassau, county correctional, you know, and I saw those, to me, everyone's the same person, whether

you're a CEO or you're an inmate in jail, it's the same, you're all humans, you know, there's no level for humans. But a couple of the guys in jail were telling me, hey, you know what, your story is insane. I couldn't wait to see something like that on TV. It captivated dude from Taiwan to whatever, you know, around the globe. During the NBA Final Four, they, in my jail house and rancers and all throughout my whole tier old bCC old boy everybody was watching the show the brooklyn v a so i said to myself when i got out and i gave up everything i gave it up for my two daughters i have two uh two daughters one of six and one is eight and um i gave up the life of crime for them i couldn't give it up for any other reason i enjoyed it too much so you know

but uh i made an investment in myself i made it financial investment, and I reached out to someone that I believe in, Adrian Mazone of Transmedia, and I said, I want to do a documentary about my life, and I want to confess, you know, I want to confess about everything, and I did. You and see it, because I'm going to see you at the premiere. Yeah. So, okay, how long were you locked up? 18 months. 18 months? Yeah, my lawyer was Bruce Cutler, John Gotti's lawyer. Okay. Dude, my case is phenomenal, man.

You write novels about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, how come you didn't write a book? You had 18 months? I was battling my case. That wasn't me. You see, for me, writing a book would have meant that would have been a confession. You can't write a book.

You just asked me, the person. question you asked me I had to say no these. What's the name of the answer? I mean, you know, there's a way to write around that. No, I mean, but you can't answer that. That's one of those questions, listen, Matthew, when they arrested me

in King's Point, this is, look at the scene, arrest me in King's Point, and you could see it on the reality show, the Brooklyn DA, it's phenomenal. But in the Pocalo, you heard the real story. They arrested me, and I was

high. So I didn't know why. Why? You know, there's the old master paintings in the back of my bend, but why am I getting pulled over? You know? I thought maybe they mixed up. But

they get me down to the station house in Kingspoint. And there's this huge giant, like tons of anarchy tables. You know, all those giant long tables with all these detectives around it. All of them you know, chilling back there with their badges. Like 35 of them, 25 of them from all over counties everywhere.

You know, FBI, I think, was there too. And they thought I was coming and crying, but I was like, they sat there ready for me to bleed out and I was like, where's my lawyer? That was the end of that. You know what I'm saying? I still moved on, you know? And it was just more of a game, dude.

It was just a game. And I was, I go to the DA's office, starving, he'd have a table full of Chinese food for me. There's something out of some, some make-believe movie. Like, why? Why for me? And then I realized that it was because of the reality show. So they were trying to get that confession. They knew I hadn't eaten in a week. All right.

So how long did, how long, after you got out, how long did it take to put together the documentary? The documentary was just last year. I had some health issues, a lot of health issues, and I have two little girls, and this is not about other people, but this is about them. This is about, I want them to know who their father is. I mean, the real person, what made me who I am and why I am the way I am. I'm not embarrassed of who I am. I just want people to know, you know, this is me.

I mean, I trust me, I understand that. Like, you know, most, it's funny because most of the guys that I know that were locked up that were like con men or fraudsters or scammers, like, they're in prison trying to figure out, like, how to get out, change their name, how to keep anybody from knowing what they did, how to start their life over. And I was like the only person who was like, I'm telling everybody what I fucking did. Fuck them. Like, you know, I would say, listen, there's two kinds of people in the world. There are those people that know the things that I've done and the person I am today and are 100% acceptant of it. And there are those people that can go fuck themselves. And that's it.

There's only two. So to me, like, you know, I'm not going to be hiding and lying and dodging the rest of my. life. Like, I'm not doing that. Like, this is what I did. And you're either okay with it or you're not. You don't have to be in my life. If you're not, well, kick rocks. There's lots of people out here. So, yeah, so I mean, I know exactly what you're saying. Like, I'm not going to, you know, I mean, obviously I would prefer not to go to prison. I could have missed the prison part. I'm okay. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So you see, I see something, I see something, I read people. I read people, whether you're, wherever you're from, I could read straight through you.

But there's something about respect that I've seen you. Like, do you want to somebody to disrespect you? Am I right? That what? You want to let somebody disrespect you in jail? That I wouldn't? Wouldn't. Would you get into a fight if somebody? Like, if I had to get into a fight, to be honest with you, I would get into a fight.

If it came down to it, but let's face it, you know, if I'm not, if this guy's six foot fucking two and he's going to beat the fucking hell out of me or something, that's probably probably not, I'm probably not signing up for that. But luckily, you know, luckily, I, I did that, that didn't, you know, I didn't have to run into that issue. Yeah, listen, once I had been locked up a few years, like I got into a routine and I was okay and people knew who I was and, you know, I didn't, I never had any. problems or anything. I think maybe two times I had an issue with a couple with a couple of guys.

And it was just because I got a slick mouth, you know, I mouth off to somebody. And I realize right away, I realized right away that, you know, either I'm going to say nothing and hold everything in until I'm, you know, till I leave here, or I'm going to mouth off every once in while and I'm going to get punched. Somebody's going to smack me. These are big guys. These are, these are not nice guys and I'm not a big guy I'm like five foot six so you know

yeah I'm tiny but I'm okay with it so side doesn't matter let me tell you something I was telling a friend of mine the other day that when I was inside

there was this dude he was this huge monster of a man and he had he had mental health issues but he was just he went he got on me like this point like he was going to bother me and I knew if he took me

he was going to beat the fuck out of me all right he would have dragged me so I had no commentary money so I couldn't pay anybody right and I didn't know anybody in there so that wasn't going to happen so you know what I did is I figured out a plan the there was a gang running our house right and he's not in the game so there's a particular gang running in our house so I played this

mine you know on them you know and I said to them you know my sister she's a hustler

what about if I get my sister into the visiting room to pass you a half ounce of weed and you give me half and you take half this was all going

this was all like check you out listen it was all going like that so that happened in the morning this nitwit got on me by lunchtime just picking on me

and I knew that dude I couldn't take it to the head with this guy because this guy would have fucked me up he was a nut so I said to the guy that I was talking to the head of the you know I think his name was gun something or other

I said yo dude I'm out of this house bro this guy's fucking with me man how the fuck I'm gonna do this shit I'm going to another house bro you know what he did he got together the three guys and he put a little bird in this guy's ear. Stop fucking with Picasso.

Right. This guy slipped out. Slips out and he attacked the CO, the correctional officer. They had to bring the turtles in to beat the fuck at him and get him out. See, so that's the point is, you know, it's not about size because this guy would have taken me. He would have wrapped my head around the fucking toilet. You know, it's about, you know, you got to use what you got. You got brains to fucking get the bigger guy

to beat the fuck out of that guy. You know what I'm saying? There's always a well there's a way. There's a lot of guys in there with mental health problems. Oh, who do you tell us? I mean, I didn't know there were so many, you know. I remember one time this guy, he came up to me and said, listen, he said, can I talk to you for a second?

I was like, yeah, what's up? And he goes, listen, man. He said, I'm taking anger management. and and so and my first thought was man and no conversation has ever been a good conversation that started with I'm taking anger management like I thought this conversation is about to go bad and it and I was like okay and I thought what's happening what's and he goes you've been slamming your door every time you leave the cell and I you know those doors are heavy so you know you yeah you go to close them Like, I'm just kind of pushing it, not, I walk out, and I kind of close, and I know it'll close. But, of course, I'm 15 feet away by the time it goes, bam, and he lives in the cell next to me. Now, I didn't know this because I barely paid attention to anything that was going on. I didn't know really anybody in the unit.

I went to my cell. I read all the first few years. I was in the medium security. And I looked at him and he goes, man, you slay in the door every time you leave the cell. And I looked at him and I go, are you? are you in this unit? And he goes, man, I'm your, I'm your next door neighbor. I'm going to sell next to you.

And I went, did you just get here? He's, I've been here six months. He's, you've been, I've been here as long as you. And I went, I'm sorry, bro. I don't even pay attention. I, uh, okay, so go ahead. He's like, you know, I'm trying to work on my anger. And, and, and, and I'm supposed to talk to you before I do something.

And I thought, well, thank God for anger management. You know, I was like, you know, I said, well, listen, I'm going to make a valid effort to try and correct that, and I will close the door. You know, he's like, I feel like you're doing it on purpose. I'm like, bro, I don't even know who you are, man. Like, I hear you, but I don't even know, I didn't even know you were my, my neighbor, but I'm going to make an effort. Listen, I must, I kept slamming that door. Like, I would walk away just by accident.

And finally, my cellie came to me, he said, this dude's going to kill you. Do you understand? And I was like, and I was like, fuck, I keep, fuck, I can't believe. know, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard habit to break. So, yeah. But I did stop, I did stop slamming the door, you know, which was stupid. And luckily I didn't have to get, I'm sure if I got my ass beat, I'd have probably figured it out real quick. I'd probably never slap that door again. But, yeah, there's some real mental cases in that. And then I taught, listen, the GED, I taught the SLD, GED. So I got the guys that can't even pass the GED.

there's like the slow learning disabled guys that are like you know you're trying to teach them like basic math and like they can't count change and it's like oh wow like this is bad like I'm like look you need to know how to count money and they're like you know my bitch count that money I'm like yeah I know I get it you you're gonna go back but when you go back out then I'm gonna sell drugs again I'm like what if she doesn't count it right like what if she counts it wrong and he's I put that pipe he goes I put that pipe on and she count that shit right and I was like that's probably true but you know like listen that I was I was not that was not an environment I was really prepared for so yeah when I went in when I was in and we were in the yard at Rikers and I was walking the track with this dude and I'm like he's like like what are you in for I said I'm in here for arts you know stealing art and I said, what are you in here for? I cut up the corrections off and I murdered my wife.

And he went on and on. I was like, oh, shit. I'm going to fuck out of you. You seem like such a nice guy. Listen, like, the guy I hung out with the most in prison is in prison for murdering two FBI

cooperating, you know, whatever, CIs. Nicest guy. Niceest guy. Until you take the honey bun from the commissary. No. Like, you know, if you borrow something, you want to pay him back. Or you, you know, if it's, he says, get you, you know, can you get me a six-pack?

Of course I can get you a six-pack. I'm embarrassed that you had to ask. I don't know why I don't already have the six-pack. I mean, you know. Pierre Rossini in the 1990s was a 20-something-year-old, Los Angeles-based drug trafficker of ecstasy and ice. He and his associates drove luxury European supercars, lived in Beverly Hills penthouses,

and dated Playboy models while dodging federal indictments. Then two FBI officers with the organized crime drug enforcement task force entered the picture. Dirty agents willing to fix cases and identify informants. Suddenly, two of Racini's associates, confidential informants working with federal law enforcement or murdered. Everyone pointed to Rassini. As his co-defendants prepared for trial,

U.S. Attorney Robert Mueller sat down to debrief Rassini at Leavenworth Penitentiary, and another story emerged. A tale of FBI corruption and complicity in murder. You see, Pierre Rassini knew something that no one else knew. The truth. And Robert Mueller and the federal government, have been covering it up to this very day. Devil Exposed.

A twisted tale of drug trafficking, corruption, and murder in the city of angels. Available on Amazon and Audible. So it's funny, there's a lot of good guys in there. Actually, there's a lot of good guys that, but seriously, there are a lot of good guys, but there's a lot of people that you're just like, wow, like, it bothers me that you're going to get out of here at some point.

Dude, there was this guy that I remember I was at, you know, I was bored when I was. I was in there. You know, once I got the good lawyer and things started going, right, there was this dude who said to me that he had been arrested 37 times, or 67, I don't know what it was. And I was like, dude, after the first few times you didn't get the hint that you're not good at it, you know, and I'm like, you're stupid, damn. And I figured I should probably be giving advice in jail.

So I stopped that. What do you do now? you don't want to know do you want to know you still paint what I do a high end estates for the 11% listen I mean

like this this documentary might not be good for you for your career well that's the thing is a documentary is supposed to take a retirement road you know what I'm saying I want to confess. I want to give you the names you want, right?

You want the names of the people that are missing, right? Right. That's what you want to give you. So this documentary has to leave me employment free. You know, I filled it all out. Like literally, if you watch this documentary and you say to me, I'm lying to you, an FBI informant that's sitting next to you could ask it. He'll tell you that I'm telling the truth.

everything in the documentary is 100% true how long is it how long is the documentary uh approximately an hour okay where are you living now uh undisclosed location okay jeezed if i give you that man that people are going to start looking for me man um okay there's not a lot you can answer um Hey, so where, where is the documentary going to be? It's, is it, is it, um, where is it being shown? We are doing a private screening for the media and the critics, right, like yourself. Right.

In Fort Lord of April 30th. And hopefully once we find a platform that we're going to stream it on, then we'll be able to let you know about that. And the name of the movie, the documentary is called the Picasso of the East. And I tell you, when you watch the movie, it's, you can't, this is not acting. I'm not an actor. Right. This is me spilling myself out, you know, and sometimes I think it might be for the adrenaline, but I'm retired now, so I don't have many forms of adrenaline anymore.

You know, I got my two daughters. And when they come over, we go roller skating or the Barnes & Noble. so for a retired I see you might as well just throw me back on Reikis, you know, sometimes it's like, you know, when I got in you know, a lot of people make a big mistake, right? They go into jail and they get sad

and they cry and they I don't know what they do. When I went in, I'm confrontational. You know what I'm saying? If I had a bit, try to stop me, I dare you to try to stop me from getting that phone at the end of the night

when you tell me that that phone belongs to somebody or it belongs to this bird, the red, the blood, the crypts, or whatever, I dare you to try to stop me to take that phone. I'll crack you over there with that phone, I'll bust you ass, because I want to feel better. I don't want

to be agitated like this guy bitched me out. You know what I'm saying? I'm always about that confrontation. This is all about adrenaline. The feeling of painting is the same thing as you confronting this six foot two dude with fucking muscles. It's all the same shit.

Are you doing any more interview? I have another one on Thursday, 5. But check this out, right? I want to give you this. It was this woman. She lived across the street from MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art in Manhattan. We were doing a six-month job.

We were completely done with the job. We had taken the paintings off. We had put them away. Brought them back. And we're already done. There was not even a paintbrush inside the apartment. And she sees me carrying the painting to give it to her because she's going to hang it. And she looks at me and she says, please be careful.

You have no idea what that thing caught. But she didn't realize that that thing was a fake. I already had replaced it. So I knew not only what it caused because, you see, there's two costs. There's the cost that you inflated for the insurance company, and there's the actual cost. Now, either way, I wasn't going to sell it, so it didn't matter. But I could tell you the actual cost. And, you know, some people, you know, you got to dumb it down sometimes, you know,

to make them feel comfortable about themselves and rich people. They're a lot like that. So, okay, I'm keep going back to were you an art, like how are you replaced, how are you duplicating these paintings? My best, you remember Kinkos? Yeah. Yeah. My best thing and my easiest thing was always to duplicate it on a color copier, high

digital, but then add layers to it, whether it be layers of latex paint or the bristles on to it. That was always the easiest. It was like painting by numbers. You know, it wasn't that complicated. And I already knew how to fall finish. I knew how to do gold leafing and Marmarino and all these other fine finishes. And at that point, you combined the two and it wasn't that complicated.

And for these people, these aren't poor people like your everyday 99% of the country. We're talking about the 1%. That 1% on the top of the food chain, they're never going to miss that painting. They didn't buy it for an investment. and it's in the basement and when they do find it, they'll put it back on the wall, then I'm going to know it's not there. You know, and there's no, you know, if you go to a museum, there's people like myself, I go to a museum and I scrutinize pictures.

I go to a museum close by and I'll look at the fibers and I'll look at the layers of paint and the gold leaf and I'll scrutinize every little thing. I could tell you if it's bacon on. There's professionals that go into every museum. the pieces I took, nobody's going to see them, the stuff of the owner and his friends. Right. And he's going to walk by it.

He's walking by it. It's 15 feet away. He glances over. He keeps walking. He's not scrutinizing the painting. Not at all. He's not even looking at the fibers or anything. Dude, down to the micrometer on the fibers of the brushes.

They used to keep a million different paint brushes and had a micrometer. And I used to measure the, original fiber in the painting because there's always brush and hairs inside the latex of the oil thing I used to put them right back where they came from but it would be on a kinko's copy you know and literally if you looked at it what is this is I was going to say what is Kinko's now is now what at UPS or FedEx? FedEx stores it in I think FedEx yeah I think it is Fed up. Yeah, I think it is. You can't do that nowadays, though, because now you've got cameras in there,

and they won't let you put no masterpiece on no print that. I got free commissaries because I was in the newspaper every day. So out of respect, inmates would bring me commissary. I had no commissary. I didn't have shit. I used to give it away because I was too stressed out. You know, I'm always burning the candle, you know? So did you get out on bond at any point?

No, my bail was set at $1.5 million. There was no getting out. They didn't want to let me out. They didn't want to let me out. And especially my lawyer was in the newspaper every day. Every single day, the DA committed a classy felony with some shit and they came out in the newspaper and then every day that my lawyer was antagonizing them. So they didn't want to let me out.

They were going to torture me. Until they said, you know what? We've had it. Let him out. If he pleads guilty now, they said, if you plead guilty now, you walk out today. I said, yeah, let's do this. And I pled guilty and I walked out. And that was how long?

After how long? 18 months. 18 months. Which was nothing. There was nothing. I mean, come on, you were in for 13 years. Jesus. Yeah, and you never, you said you never went to a prison.

You did this in the county jail, right? Yeah, I did that. Rikers Island and Nassau County. And I actually, they transferred me from Rikers to Nassau County. And I begged my lawyer to have them transmit back because Rikers Island is like a tropical paradise compared to New Nassau County. You know, at Rikers Island, you get Benadrylls if you want to wear your sleep, you want to smoke weed, whatever you want to do.

You can make it happen. But in Nassau County, forget about it. It was like the third Reich there. At 6 a.m., I think it was 5 a.m. plan the metal doors to wake you up and let you know you're in jail you know yeah county jails are the worst like i i i was the whole time i was locked up in the county jail or the u.s. marshals holdover because i was in a federal prison but you're still being held in a county jail you know you're in the you're in the u.s. marshals holdover well it's a county

jail so but the whole time you're there i remember all the guys kept saying man i can't wait to get sentenced and go to jail go to prison i can't wait to go to prison i was like is prison better than that and they were like oh prison's way better than this yeah you can yeah and it's just true like as soon as i went to prison i was like oh wow this is like you could go work work out you can get a job you can take classes you can move around like everything's nicer you could actually like start like a little life not a great life but at least have a like a life you know people aren't coming and going you can you can hang out with people, have regular friends,

watch movies, you get ice cream at the commissary. Like, you could do some stuff. Yeah, you couldn't do that. That wasn't happen. No. No. Rather do two years. I'd rather do two years in the federal prison than one year in the county.

Dude, when I was in Rikers, when I used to get bored and I wanted to make a field trip, I used to request to go to the DA's office. So I'd waste a whole thing. going to the DA's office to say nothing. It was just a good time. You know, I got to see Brooklyn, you know, in the bus, you know, talked to friends. Dude, if they saw me in the hallway, he'd say,

yo, Picasso, what's up? I had a sally that said, that asked, said he wanted to talk to the U.S. attorney, said, you know what? I'm going to talk to U.S. attorney. They brought them the U.S. attorneys, said, listen, I'm starving. Can you all get me something?

You know, well, like, and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they said, what do you want? You know, wants like, you know, two, uh, two McDonald's hamburgers and a, and a, uh, some fries. And they're like, yeah, no problem. So they go and they get it and they come. He sits down and he eats the and eats the hamburgers and sits there for a minute. And he goes, I just don't feel right about this. I need to go back to the prison. They were like, oh, no, no. Or go back to the jail. And they said, listen, you're never coming back here again. You understand? If you think you're fucking around, he's like, yeah, I know, I was never coming back to begin with. And I, I can't stand the food.

then I know it's a fucked up thing and they're like okay that you're playing he said in the end he said it cost me like six extra month those two hamburgers cost them like six more months because they wouldn't give a deal they wouldn't do anything dude that is some cold hodge stuff there i mean you know he thought people think they they're cute they don't think it's cute the biggest thing is that you know we write our own ticket you know i i've always known like literally Since I was a little kid, you know, I've always lived life looking over my shoulder for police for another bad person, you know, you always, if you take that ride, you write the ticket. So when I wrote that ticket and I got arrested, I expected what I expected. I wasn't, you know, if it wasn't for the fact that my girl was pregnant, that was the only missing factor, you know, that factor was something, you know, you don't play into when you commit crimes. Like right now, I've. two daughters, I couldn't imagine being away from them for half a second, you know, so I couldn't

do any of that anymore. You know, I'm retired. I'm done. I'm cooked. Is there like an official website or a link you want to give me to put in the description? Picasso, born in Brooklyn on Facebook is the main page, which you could also find me under Picasso Vega on Facebook and on LinkedIn. But wait, I was to tell you that the film was actually filmed in Brooklyn. We are keeping to, I mean, the original title was going to be Picasso born in Brooklyn because, you know, The Daily News gave me the name Picasso. You know, I didn't make it up. It wasn't delusional.

I made the fun cover of The Daily News with the name Picasso over my head. It wasn't a flattering Picasso. And I only tell you this, I only say it once. It was PIC. It said Picasso as a whole word, but PIC was white. Aso was black. Got it?

Yeah. Picasso. So I kept it because I'm from Brooklyn and I'm like that. You know, who else makes the front cover of the New Yorker magazine? Come on. The Wall Street Journal? Are you crazy? Come on.

I'm a Nazi. I'm not God. I'm not Bill Gates and I'm in the Wall Street Journal. I think they featured me like 10 times. Like you're like, what did I do? Did I kill somebody? I don't know. Well, it's a sensational crime.

They love sensational. You know what I'm saying? They love sensational. They love unique. Like, you know, if it's like, hey, hey, he's a crack dealer. Okay, well, there are thousands of them. Like, that's nothing special about that. But to be an art thief, that's extremely unique.

You know, like, who does that? That's insane. Like, you didn't meet, I guarantee you the whole time you were locked up. You didn't meet anybody else with it. your charge. There was another Picasso in there. No. Yeah.

There wasn't another guy stealing artwork. They might have called him Picasso. No, there was nobody like, dude, I tell you that, you know, when I went in there and there's so much media on the news every day in the Rikers Island and sort,

I thought I killed somebody by mistake of something. Like, dude, if you look at one of the broadcast, there's like 30 detectives behind this big platform behind a microphone and it's like we got them it's like what where's the body i don't get it well i didn't think it was that big of the deal well you got a document i don't have a documentary i mean um so somebody thinks it's a big deal um i hope you think it's a big deal brother because when you come see the movie dude um i mean it's the movie

begins at the age of six you know that was when the monster was created that's when I had I saw the world just a little bit differently

right you know you see as a kid you see the world just a little askew I mean for me

I feel blessed like literally I feel blessed for everything when I was in Rikers I felt blessed you know I felt like

even though I was in there dude I had the best lawyer Bruce Cutler's law firm representing me. I was in the newspaper every day. The guards knew who I were. Everybody knew who I was. Like, all of a sudden, it was like going into cheers. And they say norm, but they were like, Picasso. I was like, yo, I'm right here. You said you had not seen the trailer. Is there a trailer? No, not that I'm aware of. Okay. I thought like there was supposed to be

a trailer. I was going to say it'd be nice if they were the trailer, we could throw it in here. Well, I was about to say that more than likely when we find a platform that they're going to stream it on, then the platform will cut the trailer for that. Yeah. Well, or they'll ask the director or the, they'll ask your editor of your director and head, hey, can you guys do a 30 second trailer? All right, well, cool. And it's supposed to be animated. It's supposed to have specific songs in there from an artist called Steve Slim. I mean, it's supposed to be this.

And it's shot in 4K. There's not many documentaries out there shot in 4K where you're going to get that nice crisp and emotion. What do you mean? It's supposedly, haven't you seen it? No. You see, this is not like that. This is not like that.

You see, for you to get the full picture of anything, you have to have different eyes on a product. All right? Right. Now, this is how I insured the product is going to be put out properly. When I came up with the thought about putting this pictures together, I drove down to Florida to meet Adrian Mazzone of Transmedia. You see, if I see you eye to eye, right now, even though we're on the podcast, you know, if I saw you eye to eye, I know if you're lying to me, I know if you're full of shit, I'd read you straight through. I met up with Adrian Mazzone.

I met up with Carlos Cepetas and Anna Ceped us. I brought my daughters up there so we could all meet. We had a face-to-face conversation. I had already verified these people through my own sources. So I knew I was on a positive road. I made it very clear of them. This is not a Road to Redemption video. That's not what this is.

Right. I mean, if you want that, you better go watch Charlie Brown or something, because that's not what this is. This is, you know, I was an art thief, and I'm retired now because my daughter's and I don't want to go to jail things. That's what this is. I'm saying, I was happy.

It's an art thief. You know, it's something that's great pleasure. You know, if you go to a museum with me, Matthew, you'll experience art in a different way. Art is not just that painting is from the wall. That's not what art is. Art is meant to be taken in in so many different things.

You know what I'm saying? It's just not just, oh, look, let's go. That's not what the art is. Art has light to it, you know. You feel me? Yeah. So you haven't seen the film. Nope.

I mean, are you, have you seen pieces? I made the film, so I know exactly what's in the film. Well, you were in front of the camera. yeah but you don't know what they tons of stuff doesn't make the cut

no I know but there's nothing that bad okay you know what I'm saying I'm an art thief what's worse than that and there's a lot worse

than that a lot worse than that but no I just mean in the general sense of a movie why are they going to get wrong oh he was

an art thieves that liked Salvation Army pictures I wanted a different eyes And I also wanted a woman's perspective Which is why Anna Anna She's one of the executive producers

And directed the film I didn't want my This is not an ego trip to me This is not You know If you think I'm a scumbag Say I'm a scumbag But this is not an ego trip for me

This is a You know I'm I'm fucked up and I know it. Right. What you want me to do about it? You know what I'm saying? Who are you talking to?

Bro. Like I was, listen, I was on the run for three years, for four or five years before that. I was running scams. I was making fake people, stealing identities. You know, I mean, I was been caught in the bank by police, a handcuff, talked out my way out of, convinced them I hadn't done anything wrong. They had the wrong person. they let me go, chased by the U.S. Marshals.

I mean, I, I, you know, I, trust me, I've done all kinds of stuff. It's, it's insane. So, I mean, I know what you're saying. Like, that's what I'm like, this is what I did. It's what it is. Like, you get to a point where it's like denying it's, it's just, there's no point in it. So you might as well lean into it. So I know what you're saying.

It's like, I'm not going to deny it. So I might as well just tell you everything. I might as well just, this is what happened. Like, don't hold back. There's no reason to hold back. back at this point. There's too many articles about me. There's too much stuff out there. So you can't hide from it. So you might as well lean into it. So I, I, if everything you're saying makes sense to me. Dude, and the thing is, you know, I don't see this as redemption, but the monster

that I am, the monster that I feel I am, when I look in the mirror, I see a fucking, I see a monster. That's what I see. I know what I did. Nobody else knows what I did. You know, and I could continue my life doing what I'm doing or I could be there for my girls and change their lives

and we you know I take them to the museum and I teach them about art and we spend a lot of time together we do a lot of stuff

together they're my therapy they're my everything I could like I said I can't imagine the day without them they

they the way the sun rises and the sun sets is my girls like when they sleep I watch them because they're a thing of beauty that you I only get them on the weekend so I have a very limited

span of time that I could you know put memories in their head of me you know this movie is everything a spot to finish so are they got to go to the premiere too no they're not going to go to the premiere because I don't know

I don't know if there's an FBI agent's going to be sitting next to you Matthew Cox. Let's just say the movie's real. The movie ain't no bullshit. Right. You know, we're talking about the FBI has a whole division. FBI has a whole division for ArtFeth.

Why wouldn't you send your top guy over there? What, what I have, um, what's the statute of limitations on Art Fift? I don't think there's a statute of limitations on Art Feth. There's got to be. But you got to prove it. No, why? Why would they be a say, I mean, if they find the two paintings, if I, after a certain amount of years, if they find, if I find the two paintings that they say I stole, even though I didn't, if they can't, if I find them, they can't charge you with them. Oh, yeah, because of the catch 22, whatever, yeah, I guess.

They're not going to say they're yours. Oh, no. You're taking them back. We're just not going to charge you with them. I ain't giving them back So Yeah, the only thing that doesn't have a statute of limitations Is murder and espionage

Yeah, so everything else that has one It may be 20 years But there's a statute of limitations to pretty much everything, yeah But I would always think I mean, it would be a smart thing If you know that this movie about our death then you want your law enforcement to become educated.

Let me tell you something, Matthew. No. Let me tell you something. When they got to my house in Eastern, there was a Monet hanging in the toilet. And they walked right by it. And I was like, huh, that's peculiar.

All right. Hey, you know what? Have you ever seen the movie The Good Thief? No. Oh, that's with Adrian Brody? No. No, no, it's got Nick Nolte is in it. No, I got to watch that.

Bro. Like, if you can watch it, like, if you can find it and watch it, you should watch it. It's good. It's about a con man, and he has a Picasso. Like, he won it from Picasso, but it's not a real Picasso. Like, he's got everybody believing it's a real Picasso. he borrows like a million dollars on the painting he's had it sitting in his house for like 20 years everybody's heard the story every and then so he when he finally needs some money he borrows against the Picasso and it turns out and of course it's it's not it's a fake and it's a whole scam the whole movie it's just this one scam after that's a great movie but wait there's a new movie that just came out too uh about an art thief that gets locked in an apartment just came out but it's an unlimited release on AMC

AMC theaters. I was going to go check it out, but I didn't get a chance. I was too busy watching Super Manner Brothers with the girls. Wow. That's a life change. William Defoe.

William Defoe is in it. He's an arts thief. It gets locked in an apartment. William Defoe was great. To Live and Die in L.A. when he was a, he's a counterfeiter. That's a good movie. Are you kidding me?

Live and die in L.A. It's a great movie. He's a counterfeiter. You'd like that one. He's an artist. Brother, after you watch the show, after you watch the movie, I want you to have me back on the show

and tell me what you think, honestly. Don't, don't pull punches. Just be honest. You know, making me, we're in jail. I am in shock that you haven't seen this thing.

Look, I definitely want to talk, like, right after me. I don't know. They can't make me look bad, really. No, it's not that. It's that. think you're all people you're always shocked at what they cut like you know typically you see these

things you're like i can't believe they didn't say this or they said that or they they took this and that it's out of context i didn't mean it that way and you know but but i think you you sound like you're a lot like me where it's like i feel like i'm okay with what like if as long as it's true i'm okay with it if it makes me look bad i'm okay with it as long as it's what i did like you know don't say that I, you know, I did this when I didn't, when what I actually did was bad enough. You know, say what I did. I'll okay. I'll own up to what I did.

But I'm not going to start. I'm not going to, don't make it look like I did this over here because I didn't. So I think you're the same way. I just, you know, it's, I also think that we don't always see ourselves the way we truly are. Oh, dude. You hit the nail in the head, bro. Yeah. So sometimes you'll see stuff and you're like, wow, is that really how people see me? Like, like, but you have to be okay with that. You know, because like I would say, listen, like, you know, if, if 20 people say you're an asshole, you're probably an asshole. You may not see it, but they're not all wrong. There's 20 people will say that you're an asshole. So, but I'm okay with that. And you seem like you're the same way. So, yeah. Dude, let me tell you, this is a true story.

My son, I have a son, his name is Bobby, and he's 30 years old, and he's grown. But when he was young, I was a young father, and I didn't have a father, so I didn't know what it was like to be a father. You know, I didn't have vices. I didn't drink. I didn't smoke. I didn't do weed, none of that stuff. So I was full-blown anxiety, rage, all boiling together. I used to call her names.

He was overweight. I used to, you know, agitate the situation. And my son doesn't talk to me. You know, I reached out to my son and my son, you know, there's no communication. And it's because I was an asshole. You took the words out of my mouth, you know, and I know I'm an asshole. When I look in the mirror, I know what I did to him. I can't forget about it because I see it.

I feel it. You know, you know, you accept it. And then you know what? You just see it every day. day, you don't move on from it because I don't know how people say, oh, you know, let's stop beating yourself up on about it because you can never stop beating yourself. You did it, you know what I'm saying? You hurt somebody's feelings, and now he doesn't want to talk to me.

I still love him. He knows I love him, you know, but I was an asshole, so that's the price I'm paying. My son doesn't talk to me either, you know? He's like 23 years old. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't talk to me because obviously I, when he was three, I went on. on the run. I get picked up three, four years later.

All he knows about me is my dad's a bad person. So by the time I'm in, you know, he could have come to see me, you know, it's too, by that point, he's seven, eight years old, he's formed an opinion. I'm a bad person. I didn't want anything to do with me. My ex-wife didn't help me out any. And by the time she realizes, okay, he's getting out soon. The kid's like 18, 19 years old.

And she's saying, hey, you should. should go see your father in prison you should build a relationship and he's like fuck that dude i'm done with that guy i'm not fuck with him he's a piece of shit you know and the problem is he's got a powerful argument it's not like i can say no no you're wrong no no you you hit it on the head um you know but so you know and i've done the same thing i've reached out to him i text him you know we go back and forth a little bit it's he says horrible mean angry things to me you know so i the same thing and I feel like the same way like it's like I've done everything I

should I can think to do but it's always on my mind if that makes sense like it never goes away yeah my failure you know you I mean they're men now you know I'm saying

your son's 23 mine's 30 years old he's married he's got house cars you know and I failed him and I was supposed to be that person that didn't fail him and the worst part is

guys like you and I we keep it in our minds so we don't do it again or so we always it's a punishment it's a self-porture right there's other people that forgive and forget and let's just move on

and blame it on the kid and blame it on everyone don't take the, don't look in the mirror and don't blame it on yourself because that's the true person cause all the damage Oh I'm always in shock at guys that I know that have just been brutal, horrible to their children.

Their children show up to prison. They're there every visit. They love them. They, and it's like, wow. Like, you were brutal to your kid. You were horrible to him. You were horrible to his mother, to the, you know, and they show up. They, they.

I'm talking about that, too. Yeah. Because I always feel like, you know, like when I was there, I was good. I just disappeared. This is a horrible conversation. Let's end this. No, it's actually not a horrible conversation because it's a learning point, you know.

And that's the whole point, though. That's the whole point of the movie. You know, it's like I got fucked up at six years old. You know, are you mad at me because at six years old I saw some shit that I shouldn't have seen and I became fucked up. I mean, I see life as normal for me. You know, just so you know,

this movie has already cost me one job. because I was talking to a co-worker You see, I'm real I told the coworker, look, I'm making a movie And this bastard went to the boss And rated me out I expect when this If this hits big

That's, you know, I expect to get fired So, you know, we write our own check This check is written But if this hits big, I get fired That means I made it big, right? So then who gives the shit? yeah it's the problem you should be able to handle at that point yeah exactly i mean damn you know i've had worse you know i just want to be able to you know what i would like to be

able to do something that i'd like to do and be able to spend as much time with my girls till you know you bury me in the backyard or something oh and noah charney is in the movie I know he's not on this poster because this poster is one of the first ones but Noah Charmy is an author and he writes a lot of books on art and theft of art so he's in the movie

he makes a special appearance I'm so excited about so please check him out hey I appreciate you guys watching the video do me a favor and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this also I'm going to leave all of Picasso's social media links are going to be in the description. I'm going to try and figure out if we can get some

kind of a link to the official movie, either the trailer or to the website or some type of a link. And I appreciate you guys watching. I also, when I was locked up, I wrote a whole bunch of true crime books. So check out the trailers. And all right, see you.