Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Meet The International Steroid Dealer | Joey "The Needle"

Episode Date: May 20, 2023

Meet The International Steroid Dealer | Joey The Needle

But anyway, he'd stuck him in here like this, put cotton in them, glue them, send him to the mail, and it would get through custom. I had to sign for it, got through customs. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Joey Sales. Joey wrote a book called Joey The Needle. Right here it is. And he's got a story about he was importing massive, um, he was importing, uh, massive, um, amounts of steroids from Ukraine, from Ukraine of all places. So there's a whole Ukraine angle.

Yeah. Anyway, he went to prison. A few times. Yeah, wrote the book. Slow learner. Super interesting story. And so check it out. There's three parts of the book.

You know, I was involved in a bunch of Ukrainian smuggling steroids in the country. Right. There's a subplot to it that I was, your MMA freaks out there might know. I was a cornerman for Bobby Hoffman from 1998, 1999, and for all you MMA junkies out there at one time, he was the most feared heavyweight in the world. He was the first guy to knock out Alistair over him, and his first guy to knock out and beat Rico Rodriguez.

And the third subplot to it is that even though I was in and out of jail a lot, I kept a real close relationship with my daughter, and she grew up to have a successful life, successful now, Hollywood, good looks, so everything. This book, My Life is a happily ever. after story okay well so when when did this well first of all what let's start it began like where were you where were you born born in the centerville iowa u.s.a it's uh like the third poorest county in iowa uh real close to missouri border well my town my county border in missouri

my town was like 12 miles from the missouri border uh grew up in a normal family my dad had a good paying union job my mom was a stay-home irish mom We went to Mass every Sunday. I have a younger brother, younger sister, and just normal. I had a good childhood. The only thing my big gripe about my childhood would be that me and my brother was severe asthmics and that's the only thing that would, looking back, that I wish I could erase because we were both severe asthmics and didn't get on medication until we were like

10 to 12 years old, so it was pretty rough growing up to that angle. Did you ever get in trouble when you were? younger? No, I was an athlete. No, I was, no, my mom, we went to church every Sunday. No, I never got, I never got detention in high school. I was an athlete, a pretty good athlete. I was a good sprinter, was a all-state baseball player. I was a state runner up in a hundred meter dash. I was a decent football player. No, I, uh, I was a straight and narrow kid. My junior in high school, we threw paint in a public swimming pool, got a little probation after that, but no, no, no real trouble. Okay. Well, why did you throw painting the swimming? Why wouldn't you? I don't know. It was there.

Go we, my buddy's my buddy worked at the school. He found it back. He stole a can of oil-based paint on his last day at work. We decided it would look good in the middle of public pool. You know what I mean? Um, so, uh, did you, so when, like, how did you, how did you end up? Were you a bodybuilder? Were you working? No, I was a skinny kid growing up. I graduated. I weighed like a buck 45.

I was always, how tall are you? Well, I've shrunk a little, my prime, I was 510. Okay. So, and you were a buck 45? Oh, when I graduated? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow.

I run like the wind, though, pal. That's super skinny. Yeah, I was. I really was. And I, you know, I really didn't lift weights until I got to college. and I ran track a couple years in college I started taking roids in between the two times

I ran track in college you put a little weight and that's how I kind of got in a royd business so I mean how did that happen like you knew a guy who knew a guy yeah back in the 80s wasn't hard to get right it wasn't hard to get

yeah it was real easy Diana ball that's what I and I think that's what everybody starts on right yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't ever That's not a good track steroid, so I never took it when I was running track. Winstraw is a good track steroid. Anabar is a good track steroid.

Even human growth hormone is good out track, track, but I never took it while I was running. I took it in between seasons, you know, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. And see, it wasn't a controlled substance until 1988 when Ben Johnson beat Carl Lewis in a 100-meter days. The federal government threw a fit over it. And that's how come steroids become a controlled substance. Do you know that? I didn't know.

I just assumed they were always. No, no. No, they wouldn't a control. And the Controlled Steroid Act of 1990, it'd become a Schedule 3 controlled substance. The DEA didn't want to even make a controlled substance. They were against it, but the Congress made them make it a controlled substance.

And after it become a controlled substance, there's a lot of fake shit on the market. Right. I mean, junk coming in from Mexico. you had your fake, you had your counterfeit, you had your good counterfeit and you had your bad counterfeit. Like if I give you a bottle of diatibol, it might be nothing in it. Or if you give you a bottle of diana ball, it might be something else in it.

Or it could be the diana ball. Does it make sense? It was good counterfeits, fake, and bad fake. Right. And so I knew that if I get access to top-the-line stuff, you know, I can name my price because people are tired of fuck with a junk. shit you know what year is this when you started i was started in 1990 when i started writing fake scripts if you read the book i wrote fake scripts right and i come out of retirement i wrote your fake script

there right you that and i mean you got artwork on the wall right there's the fucking rambrat you know what i mean you ought to stick that right on the wall right there next let me look good right excuse me right there you know what i mean right there i wrote uh if you look that up i wrote one of your fake alices on there, you know? Yeah, Charles White. I figure you got that. Michael White, but anyway, yeah. I thought it said Charles White.

No, I got Michael's White. Michael White. There was, I had, uh, I think that, I think the guy, the cop that I listened to your, he said you used the Charles White. No, it was, it was, uh, I had a Michael, Michael White. We had a Lee Black. Well, I'm sure you, you can get one of these Charles White. Yeah.

Right. Why not? I figure you got an ID like that hid with the money, the government can't find. you know what I mean so you're just you're just getting so I'm going to the pharmacy getting the shit right you don't need a source your source is the pharmacy yeah and uh I knew how to get it out of veterinary clinics too okay and uh like I said I wrote you that and if you wanted to go cash that in instead of my uh DA and I'm my federal inmate number I don't think that'll be a real issue with that you know what I mean that and if you go cash that in

you want to dress down you don't want to go and look like Charles Atlas you know you want to going to like, you know, sweats, oh, you know, have some depends in your hand, you know, and buy them because five or six of years and I can be shit in your pants anyway, you start stalking up on them, you know what I mean? But, no, that's how I got into it. Right. So what were you selling them for? Like, what, what's the, what do you buying them for and what are you selling them for?

Probably, probably buy it for $35 a bottle, and it was good stuff. You could sell it for $100, $125. a bottle, you know. With a wind straw, he's getting out of the pharmacy, same thing. It was a little more expensive. You know what wind straw is, right? Yeah, yeah. That's what Ben Johnson was caught using. Okay. But, and so I made a, not a great living doing it, but it was supplemental income type stuff. Makes sense. Right. Well, what were you doing for a living? I'd work in factory and stuff. I got laid off in a factory, bounced around. It's kind of nomad and uh and how i would uh market this i went to weightlifter i was a pretty good weight

lifter one time i went to bench press meets i could i could bench press uh i weighed 165 do like 325 so and i meet people through there right plus you people know you got good stuff word of mouth yeah yeah you know how that and uh people people knew i wouldn't fuck them over i have a pretty good people don't know know i don't bullshit them you know well you're also getting it straight out of the pharmacy. That's a pretty rare thing. That's pretty hard. If I come up to you and say, hey, you know, I got stuff out of the pharmacy.

People say, no, you don't have that connection. Right. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of a hard thing. But then in 1995, let's see here, there's a pro-steroid bodybuilding magazine, and there was a guy from Ukraine who put in a letter to the editor. basically wanting to meet pen pals, and I read between the lines, wrote him a letter

because I knew what he had, and I got hooked up with some Ukrainians. We were smuggling in the country. It started out in nickel and dime operation, and then it got bigger and bigger. First we smuggled, and then with little toys like this, and he'd stick him in to... A little Russian dolls?

But he couldn't paint like this. They were big eggs, and he had generic painting. This was Boris Yeltsin. Right. I'm pulling his fucking head off, you know. But anyway, he stuck him in here like this, put cotton in him, glue him, send him to the mail,

and it would get through customs. I had to sign for it, got through customs. The only problem is, like I said, he wasn't a good painter. He was signing, he was sending big generic eggs. He sent a bunch of them,

and they customs over there caught on to him. Right. And so, this is in 1995. He wrote me a letter saying hey they're on to me nothing's going to happen to me they just think it's stupid that i was doing this uh and he'll me some money i said well don't worry about it get me you know whenever you can figure a way to get it and send it to me that and we figured out how to

another way to get it in sound good yeah i mean i mean yeah so you're getting it you so you're bringing in get it so how much more stuff how much stuff are you bringing in at a time it's nickel and dine see I figured that this is all going through snail mail right we're writing each other this guy I figured he was rich but he was poor you know because it's just fall with Soviet Union right

yeah and I was right we was going on everything by snail mail at first and then he figured out how to we was writing he had letters he'd mail it to me in a letter and that's when I had my first problem in 1996 the shit was falling out of the packages

yeah it was it was getting crushed right you had a lot of people in Europe sticking their fingers in there postal thieves thinking it was money comes right and the powders pills are getting crushed and falling out out of the envelope and that's when I had my first problem they uh postal inspectors come in on me I basically got slapped on the wrist what even they just showed up at your work knock on your door they kicking the door they no I was uh driving around my small town and I've seen a cop behind me and I've seen him stop me

and I've seen a postal inspector jump out of a van and he had like five or six packages that he mailed me that he knew he mailed me and they told me how to come down to the police station if I had to do it over again I would have went to the police station I went to a lawyer right I went to the police station I told him I was hooked up with some doctor

who made up a story it told him it's Clembuterall and nothing happened for like three years that they finally, they finally, give me like a misdemeanor, slap on her wrist. Just before the statute of limitations runs out, they file, yeah, yeah. Because they knew I wasn't going to quit. I mean, I don't know, maybe. So in 19. So the whole time you're on, you're waiting, are you still bringing it?

I took a month off. We took about three or four months off. And then you just start up again. I wrote him and said, hey, it's like 96. 97, he gets a telephone. So we're talking to each other on telephone now. and things are getting it. You know, we figured out how to get it through the mail.

He'd become a beggar, smuggler, through the mail. He knew how to wrap it so it wouldn't be seen by customs, postal inspectors. And we started that. And I expanded my business by, I put my, I put an ad in the underground newsletter. I started getting customers all of the United States. And they were kind of suspect, you know, a guy for the Midwest. How's he getting his top-of-the-line pharmaceutical shit? for I mean what I was getting was pharmaceutical great stuff right you know what I mean

this isn't this stuff today is like made in labs you know kind of clandestine labs they're getting their shit in from China the powders of China and they're making it in these clandestine labs yeah but this was taught this pharmaceutical grade stuff this was made by pharmaceutical great companies out of Poland Turkey I mean it was I was even getting human growth real human growth hormone not synthetic human growth hormone from

from a Russian cadavers is made out of the pituitary glands of dead Russians it sounds horrible bro it sounds disgusting it worked

it was good stuff I sold a lot of it he once got plastic surgery because he didn't like the photo on his wanted poster his legend precedes him the way indictments precede arrests

he is the most interesting man in the world I don't typically commit crime but when I do it's bank fraud stay greedy my friends support the channel join Matthew Cox's Patreon okay so well I mean over there

like it's like it was chaos over there after the fall of the Soviet Union right like I mean Ukraine breaks off and all these former Soviet bloc countries are they're all in just you know they're going through hell So, you know, everybody was just struggling to make money. So it's not like they're chasing this stuff down.

I mean, I don't know. But he said the postal inspectors didn't, weren't hard on, they just thought it was stupid. Yeah. Well, they got real criminals to chase like that. You know what I'm saying? Like it's illegal, but, you know, you're talking about they got gangsters and murders and all kinds of stuff going on. Yeah. Over here, they take it more serious.

Yeah. So in 1999, he figures out how to get it. in on airplanes and I don't pay any from now on all the stuff I gets on the spot I mean he was I mean everything I get gets to me and I pay him later okay I get to the one the one issue before yeah and anyway and and and he wrote me a letter when we got when he got busted I wrote him a letter and said hey don't worry about you getting caught just send me when you can do you can and he wrote me back said well I got somebody over here I can trust now you know somebody not crying about their fucking money back you know right

So we've become a good friend. We got a phone. We call each other. We talk about, you know, politics, sports, anything. You know, we've become pretty good friends. Right. And I told him someday I'm coming over to see him. He's like, all right, fuck it, I don't care.

And so in 1999, we were getting in on airplanes. They figured a way out of being on customs, and we was getting boatloads of shit in. And since I was the guy they could trust, it was all coming to me. I mean, we're talking, you know, 5,000, 10,000s of Russian diana bull and original packaging. We're talking top of the line stuff. And I didn't have the market to sell it.

I did a lot of reshipping for them. You know what I'm saying? I didn't, I live in a small town. I really didn't live close to a gym, which I don't know. I don't know if I don't want to deal with a bunch of guys doubt what I had anyway. You know, like I say, I'm a small town guy. Where's he getting this stuff?

Right. That makes sense. So you're reshipping it. So reshipping it for them. Plus, I make some money, too. you know right and uh in 19 and and i'm traveling all the world bobby hoffman in 1998 not over the united states of bobby hoffman 1998 uh a friend of mine besides he's going to try ultimate fighting and lo and behold he becomes one of the most feared heavyweights in

a world you know he i don't know if you're in ultimate fighting no how'd you meet him though oh he was even my high he was two years younger me in high school and the reason he wanted me these corner he knew i get shit you know and i'm not going to what we were that we're taking and i'm not throwing a guy under the bus it's well known that he had substance abuse problems you know i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not like that but he was a he was a hell of football player the guy should have he could have played an NFL football he could wrestle he was big strong and tough and i kind of doubted when he got into it i figured ah fuck uh he but he he he becomes one of the most feared heavy weights in the world he beat some very good guys i mean i was in his

corner of the night in September 1999 that he knocked out a guy named Rico Rodriguez that guy went on to be UFC champ yeah I was gonna say I've heard that name yeah and I don't know anything Alistair Overim that's a bigger name I wasn't with him he he he that was in Japan and he uh it looks like he killed Overim in the ring it was brutal and Overreem can't take a punch that's his big thing he has a glass jaw and maybe that had something to do it because I mean he really fucked him up man it was bad I was I wasn't there I was locked up we'll talk about that later but I've been locked up a few times.

Is it for the same thing, steroids? Oh, yeah, that's the only thing. Yeah. I did two we'll talk about it. Yeah, so I was traveling all the world with him, or the United States with him, you know, selling steroids from, like I said, May 1999 to September, 1999.

May 1998, May 1998, September, 999. May 1998, September. September 1999. We'll get it straight. All right. I'm a little nervous. Yeah. It's the, I get dates. Like I did, uh, I did a whole series on like my life and going to prison and everything. Like, listen, my dates are off. Some of the things, I'm, you know, I miss remember the exact, like, did this happen first or that happened? Like, it's hard to remember. Especially look at 20 years ago.

Yeah. If it, the book, the book's in order, everything I'd done, you know, in the exact order. Like I said, we'll be jumping around. And then it talks about me. going to prison exactly what happened in my life. I'm not consumed with this. You know, I've kind of let a lot of this shit go. Right. It's not something that I think about every day. Actually, I talk to a few people in Ukraine.

I keep in contact with them. I'm more interested in that than shit that I did 20, 30 years ago. Yeah, yeah. I understand. I mean, some people, you know, some people, these types of, like, the crimes they committed or there are a certain event in their life that they, you know, they live off of their whole life.

Like being a high school, you know, you were the high school football jock or something. And they remember, they go over that in their mind, you know, for the rest of their life. And some people are like, eh, it was something to happen. I'm just going to move on. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not consumed with it. Yeah.

Like I said, before, I'm, nah, just, I don't think about it a lot. Try to block a lot of it. Like I said, I'm getting older. You know, it's been 1995. It's been a few days ago, you know. But this is the magazine, oddly enough. it's a see back in the day this magazine was a very pro-steroid magazine right it's got like it tells you how to do roids where i mean how to find counterfeits in the real shit i mean

it was anything goes then they i don't know then he started promoting his own stuff so what so you're getting him in you're traveling all over the world and i yeah i did go to yeah i went to kiev in uh i went to kiev in august in 1999 i met my buddy stayed there a week i actually stayed in Butcha, where Putin just got his tank battalion jammed up his ass here in February. God bless him. Yeah, so what happened when you went over there? Pick up at the airport. Yeah, he picked me up at the airport.

He knew who I had a sign that said, Joe. I knew. And he said he recognized me. And he took me to his house out in Bocha, and I stayed there a week, went downtown Kiev a few times, stayed on Independence Square. I didn't know his independent square. They never called it that then. They said, we're going down to the square, you know. Right.

Stayed with him a week. And he told me exactly how he's getting in the country, what was going on, and said, you're going to be our main guy, you know. And I had my first incident in November, the Saturday after Thanksgiving, 1999. I had a bunch of shit sent to me in a post office in Unionville, Missouri. My mom was staying. And they surrounded me. they said there was the

and I wouldn't talk so you drove to the post office to get this stuff and they pull up in the cars get on the ground the whole thing they're not on the ground no they were small town cops they were like that yeah oh they listen every time I've been around

no they didn't get me they made me get on the ground no they were like they surrounded me because they knew it didn't carry guns yeah they knew they knew but no they were they were half ass respect like that they were telling me you know we think there's suspicion you got steroids in the pack and the package is

I mean it's like fucking three big box four big box so I can barely see over the fucking box all right of diannable I mean 40,000 tabs of dianables but I wouldn't talk and I figured they laid a heavy bond on me

they laid like a $150,000 bond on me I fought the search warrant I fought them I had a Moses press I thought their search warrant bullshit and I lost the most of the press they were throwing a bunch of at me and this stuff I basically did seven months in the county and then I I didn't beat the motion to suppress imagine that and uh I got four months at a shock treatment in Western Missouri and this is federal state federal or state personal estate

first of state and what helped me here even though I got caught with that all that shit was only possession right and then it should have been distribute distribution yeah you know but in missouri uh possession of steroids is uh is uh possession of steroids is a felony or in iowa possession of steroids is not there it goes from state to state and then and it kind of get me it kind of helped me out only get possession because on my fed charge if i had another possession of distribute i might have got a career criminal because i got i got another little charge later on i had nothing on me basically but they got me possession intent to distribute who got caught four times i was a slow learner you know right shit happened you know

what's the uh so so so you get out got out well what happened to your buddy like like did did he he realized you were arrested like he got oh my i got when my i had family come to jail i got word out he got word out to him and i told him what he did wrong on the fucking package he wrote a bad fake address on it and they corrected that i got out And I moved to a town and we just started up business again until 9-11. 9-11, I was a pretty big guy until after 9-11. Right. Now, after 9-11, I mean, we couldn't get shit on airplanes anymore, you know.

Okay. And the reason the feds come on me in on me in 2010, I was laundered money for them. I was laid off, needed some extra cash. And if you wanted some stuff from my buddy to Ukraine, you'd send the money to me. I would tell them through via email. that I got the money, and they would get their stuff. The only thing is, there's a guy in Pittsburgh that told on us, and they were in our emails.

And they come and got me and them guys in March, St. Patrick's Day, 2010. They busted my buddies in Cyprus and got me in Centerville, Iowa on the same day. Who was in Cyprus? My buddies. The FBI coaxed them. So there's no extradition laws of Ukraine. You can't go fucking. Right, right.

So they convinced them to come. They convinced them to go to Ukraine because they was going to tell them how to launder their money through credit cards. You mean they convinced them to come from Ukraine to Cyprus? Yes. Because they could arrest them in Cyprus. Yes. Right. Yeah, that happens.

Yeah, yeah. Because there's, yeah, there's no extradition laws in Ukraine. Yeah, yeah. I know a guy that used to do, he owned a company that did extractions, but like you can't go into Ukraine and arrest a Ukrainian. They said, but it was, it's not difficult to coax the. these guys to go to an extra country where you have extradition and then they grab them there see what what really screwed was really screwed in I should have went back over there I was going to go over in 209 I didn't and they would told me what was going on because I didn't talk these guys on

on on the phone from 207 on it was all he said no we're email you're going to email they bought my computer and shit said all right whatever so and if I would have went over there they would have told me what went on and I would have told them and you can't be doing it that because there was a big bus sterile. I think it was Operation Raw Deal where they went to like Austria and all these fucking countries had extradition law.

And even though they had nothing on them, conspiracy, they had a big meeting with these guys. The FBI saying, hey, we're going to teach you out of laundered money this way, so they got them for your conspiracy. They had this big meeting. Then they went to their hotel and arrested him. Makes sense?

I just don't understand why they've taken it so seriously. Like there's real issues out there. He wants Khan Bank of America out of $250,000 using nothing but a fake ID and his charm. He is the most interesting man in the world.

I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank frog. Stay greedy of my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. You know what? It was a big operation. I didn't make a lot of money,

but I didn't have a good time. I showed you my buddy's house. I mean, they were making fucking bank. If you, if you Google up there, their case. Money goes a lot further in Ukraine than it does here. And what's funny is I was in my, okay, so we're kind of jumping around. Like I say, read the book. But anyway, so they didn't come get me to a year later because they took me down the county jail.

I wouldn't talk to the police on a state charge. They kept me in the county jail and filed state charges on. me. I wouldn't talk. I didn't talk. So anyway, I got my cousin who's a Fed lawyer and he told me, you know, hey, you know, you're in trouble here, blah, blah, blah. And they, so I had to admit my role. The feds come in. I had to admit my role. I said, I really don't know who the fuck's doing this. You know, it's been since years I've talked about the phone. I have no idea who's over there. I don't have no idea who you arrested. I don't know. They thought I was a big guy. Which I was not

I was their money launderer But I really wouldn't make it a lot of money I basically told them what's in the book What I wrote in a book And the state charges eventually had to go away Because the feds kept The evidence from the state They wouldn't crawl away to the state

And that state guys wanted to talk to me That day with Then I had been in my role of the fed I told them I wouldn't talk to them It's the best thing I ever did Because they had filed state charges on me Come federal time I'd have been in real trouble

you know what I mean right that really added points to my score makes sense right so what the you're saying the feds ended up picking up the charge the state charge got dropped the feds got dropped or you're saying the state dropped and they let you go no the state charges got dropped the feds I had that meeting when I had that meeting I had that meeting with the feds when I was in jail that was 2010 they didn't the feds didn't come get me till 211 because my buddies were fighting extradition and if they you could have got off so you can get off you can get off the island cypress if you get to the northern part of the island there's no extradition law you can get you can i was hoping they'd bail out jump on a boat and get the fuck out because there's no ex yeah get to the northern part get on the boat

get out so if they would got away they might not come got me you know what i mean that the old thing might have went away right and i called my buddy got his number he said told me who they got they got his son they got somebody else he said he coming over he said man i got i got my passport I can't man I just can't I'm not going to fucking Ukraine you know I don't speak he said all right and uh so they finally come and got me I had to turn myself into Pittsburgh May May of 2 11 I turned myself in to Pittsburgh drive to Pittsburgh turn myself in he doesn't die down to Pittsburgh is that's where the guy that rad on us was from Pittsburgh right yeah so what would end up happening would you I got you didn't get bonded out

no I told no I could have went home I played killed guilty but i said i want to start my time now because i'm tired of fucking waiting you know yeah yeah i had a good lawyer my lawyer was mike keelty out of st charles missouri he's my cousin he did a good it's it helps that family yeah yeah i got two fed lawyer cousins if i got some shit go down now which i don't do anything now if i had anything go wrong i got two fed lawyer cousins they got my back but gets that irish blood in it you know so you're irish we're gonna take care of you how much time did you get i got only got 20 months and my

my buddy's got three years three and a half years anyway from two okay so they did extra oh fuck yeah oh yeah absolutely absolutely and they got three years and three years 10 months and we had a switch of

district attorneys or what they call it not district attorney you know what are they called assistant u.s. attorneys yes sir but anyway we had a switch of U.S. attorneys, the lady was going to let them buy theirself out. The lady was going to let them pay a million dollars and go home. But we got to change. The guy was a dickhead. And I know this because I was in Ohio with these guys.

We got moved to Youngstown, Ohio, and I was in Youngtown with these guys. They said, yeah, the lady's going to let's buy us out and go home. A million dollars to go home, but the guy wanted to hang us and he made him do three years, 10 months. You know what, though? He made it in favor because that a million dollars probably coming in pretty handy right now i'm sure you know i mean because they're you know and they got more time because they just had more evidence against them and that's really yeah well i mean they were the kingpins right he king pinned him and they i'm sure they didn't

appreciate them fighting extradition and yeah yeah they they really didn't want me you know my cousin did a good job they were she was pretty lenient the guy they come in and they would give them the time he was wanting to fucking hang me the judge wouldn't go along with it she just You know, he, you know, he did what he did. He admitted his role, you know, and the guy they brought in, the other attorney said he didn't cooperate, you know, he didn't give us any information on anybody. You know, he just admitted his role and that shouldn't be, that shouldn't count for anything. It should count for, yeah, I was going to say it did. It did.

At the very least, it counts towards your, you know, at least one or two points for taking that responsibility and intern yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't make you go to trial. I played within, you know, a reasonable amount of time. Yeah. You know, and then, of course, they should roll the charges together, too, because I didn't, I didn't have to go to trial. You didn't have to.

Yeah. So. I couldn't know. I couldn't. There's something that says you have to cooperate in order to get the benefit of pleading guilty. Yeah. Because I didn't really know what was going on.

They were like, because they were, I went to state court and they was telling my charges, they were announcing these two or three Ukrainian names. I didn't know who the fuck they were. You know, I didn't, I couldn't, there was one guy. I never, they were arrested. I never, I never met him when I was over there. I know who the fuck he was. Right.

The guy, they, they pinned everything. Oh, I didn't know him. But they didn't get the kingpin. That's what I, they didn't get him. They lied. They said they got the king pin. They didn't get the king pin. So they got, well, listen, they'll, anybody, they'll, they'll, they'll switch the kingpin.

Believe me, they didn't get the king pin. Right. Well, I'm saying they'll, I'm saying they'll, if you're the top dog. out of five guys you may not be the top guy in the operation they'll say this is the king pin and then the next guy that comes up they'll say he's the kingpin and that's just to stick you every single time they're you know they make everybody sound like a monster the poor guy that got he had nothing to do with it he was just kind of a chauffeur driver he looked like your stereotypical Ukrainian Russian they they king pinned him is what it is he and I told him

even though he didn't do it I said well they could have got you on conspiracy he didn't speak English and my buddy and he didn't knew yeah you admit you know like that they're going to get you on the conspiracy so they they did their time they got out yeah i'm a time i've i know they're alive that's all i know i communicate with a guy over there and he told me yeah your buddies are alive and that's all i know i don't have any communication with them probably living under the grid i don't know well they probably well how old are they now are these guys the guy you showed me the one picture of the guy yeah the guy right now he's five or six years older to me oh wow so he's 60s i was going to say too he's probably

not fighting in the ukrainian no his sons might be he had two sons yeah yeah the guy i talked to he he's older he's not fighting in i met some people over there that i don't know if they're fighting in or not you know you kind of wonder what's going on yeah and i i email or i message a guy a lot but lately i can't message him because there's a lot of power being cut off over there and shit when a guy's got a generator you know a generator comes on he'll check in with me, let me know what's going on. I kind of get some of the stuff before the Western media gets it was kind of interesting.

You know, some stories about what's going on over there. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it's funny because I watch stuff. It's like almost almost every morning. I bet you five days a week. I listen to this radio station, not

radio station, it's like YouTube, it's a YouTube channel that talks about, it gives you the updates on the war. And I'm pretty sure it's probably run out of Ukraine or someone in Eastern Europe. Yeah. So every day I hear, you know,

sometimes nothing's happening. But so I kind of keep up with it. Kershaw, I think they're doing pretty good at Kershaw. I think it's amazing that, I think it's amazing that they're getting the shit kicked out of them. They're motivated. That's one thing about Ukraine is that they're not scared of Russia. And that's what I got that impression on over there.

We're not, we're not scared of these motherfuckers. Well, you know, I think just, you know, that aside, in general, it is always difficult. to invade a country because the inhabitants are always going to fight harder for their country. I was born here. I was raised here.

It's got to be hard for the Russians. Fuck their brothers. Yeah. Well, and they don't want to be there. Yeah. And see, when I was over in Ukraine, I mean, they said from day one, we want to be part of Europe. We want to be part of the European Union. I got that from everybody over there. Yeah. We don't want nothing to do with Moscow. You know, we want our own independent country where Ukraine is not Russian.

Well, you know, the Russians after the fall, you know, they, they had a chance to become, to really kind of, you know, become a part of Europe. And then they just went with the oligarchy or the oligarchs, and then they took over everything. And it just become run by the mob. Yeah. It's so they could have, they had a great opportunity and they just squandered it. Yeah. You know, so.

And then, of course, you know, Putin's invading all these countries and the Russians. The Russians just like, let's just want to live their lives. Yeah, no shit. Like, it's this guy's, oh, I want to rebuild the old Soviet Union. And it's like, well, that's your deal, bro. Like, I just want to pay my bills and raise my kids. He thinks he's Peter the Great. Yeah, he's, I don't know.

He's going to end up getting himself, you know, killed or something. I don't know what's going to happen. I follow it closely. I don't know. The problem is, and I've watched a bunch of stuff on, you know, unfortunately everything, all my knowledge comes from YouTube. So, but, you know, the problem is, like, he's not, you know, you think, oh, why doesn't the guy's filthy rich, probably the richest man in the world,

why doesn't he just retire? Because the truth is, if he retires, whoever gets in there, there's a good chance they kill him. Yeah. You know, or he ends up in prison because you don't want this guy out there with his power base. What if he takes over again? So our best bet is to take power and then say, oh, my gosh, he's been stealing from us the whole time, arrest him, throw him in prison, or have him executed. Like, there's not really anywhere he can go.

So he doesn't have a lot of options When people are like, well, why doesn't he just pull back Because he'll probably be overthrown? Why doesn't he just retire or go to another country Who's going to take him? Yeah, no shit, no shit. It's a mess over there. I feel sorry for those people.

They're good people over there. I mean, you know, they're just, like even my Korean and buddies, they were good people. They were trying to make a fucking buck, you know what I mean? Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's sad. So what do you do now?

I got a pretty good job. I live in Center of Iowa. I got a pretty good job. I worked, what, 50 hours a week. I live in a real laid-back town. I go gamble at the horse track a lot, Perry Meadows. Right. And my daughter, she lives in Missouri.

I still keep in contact with her. So everything's all right. Everything turned out all right. Right. She just got married, you said. Got married. Got married. Saw a picture of her, beautiful girl.

Yep. Yep. So everything's good, man. Okay. written the book i told you you got to you guys you should do a um audio you know i even have somebody that will do the audio version for you if like he'll he'll read it i don't know yeah you know i kind of like we talk you know if you gotta be connected sell a book you know what i mean i know it's it's a lot of pa like i would say if i was banging one of those big fat ass

cardassian girls this book would be a best sell or their hairy ass stepdaddy bruce you know what i mean i think yeah i think uh it's a lot of politics in it like i said if i this book's ever been as an orange as a new black or you got guys like bill o'reilly selling killing the mob me it just bugs me and what's fucks he know about the fucking mom well i mean he's got he's got a he's got a he's got a publisher they they have a i get it you know you know what i'm saying it i get it how many you know and this is what i always say it's like here's the problem the problem is that you ever watched american idol yeah like okay so like the top 10 20 people that are on it they're all amazing every one of

of them should be a superstar every one of them how come only one wins and usually you don't ever hear about that person now you might hear out of 10 seasons you might hear of two of the people that actually won maybe somebody three people down that got cut might get famous but most of those people never hear about because the truth is that if it's a combination of luck and knowing the right people that gets you famous how many movies have you seen and halfway through the movie you thought how the fuck did this get made? Yeah. Like, this is a horrible movie.

And then I know of other stories that you're like, oh, this has got to be a movie. You never hear about it again. Yeah. It's just the luck of the draw. You know, that's the lottery. It is. Right.

And that's why, like, with me, I'm just, I just keep throwing stuff against the wall. Like, eventually something will stick. And if it doesn't stick, I'm okay with that because I like what I'm doing and I'm happy and I'm not in prison. Yeah. Because, you know, look, you know, you get out of prison.

And it's like the worst day out here, you've heard this. The worst day out here is better than the best day in prison. I hate it halfway house more than I hate to prison. Oh, no. Halfway house is the worst.

It was the worst. Think about it is with me, I was only halfway house two months and the feds paid for like three months. So I didn't have no bills or anything and I pretended like I'd go look for a job walking downtown and Tom while I'll go to the bus day, walk around.

They'd get on me to look for a job. No, I'm not going to fucking job. I'm only going to be here two months. Why would I look for a job? Yeah. Why am I going to lie? These people say I'm not going to be I'm not sticking around here, you know.

Yeah, halfway house. I hate it halfway house. I'm a pedophiles in that fucking money. Well, they're also horrible because, you know, they're on you so much. Like, they're all, at least the nice thing about jail. I had a counselor, wasn't. The nice thing about jail or prison, you could go weeks or months without ever talking to a guard. Yeah.

It's not like that in the halfway house. They're all over you. That wouldn't like that. Even my counselor wasn't on me. It wasn't that. It was small. A tum was small. I don't know, bro.

I was in Tampa. But it was, we're getting counted three, four times a day. We're getting yelled. And if you didn't have a job, you had to clean. Like, it's like I'm wiping down the same table three times a day. Luckily, I got a job right away. But there were, there was major issues in that halfway house at Tampa. See, I got to disagree.

There were some days in prison weren't bad. I got to play softball again. No. And I had good days. I'm just saying you'd rather be out here. Oh, you'd rather be out. The food out here is great. You didn't like your raw chicken on Tuesdays.

No, it was, not. Medium rare fucking chicken. And we talked about that, like, on the way here. Like, there were some days where there were some meals that it was like, wow, this is good. Yeah. This is good. Most of them weren't. But they were edible.

I worked in the kitchen the last month I was there. We got some pretty good meals because they were cooking meals for the guards. We got those meals. What about holiday meals? Like, they, they. Yeah, they tried. Yeah, that's what I thought. A little broasted chickens and shit.

That's what I thought. I thought, first of all, like when I was out committing crimes, like when I thought about what prison would be like, I wasn't thinking, well, they get good. They feed them good and they have good meals on the holidays. I didn't think any of that. I thought you got slop every day. And so when the holidays came around and you had a decent meal,

I was like, wow, like I don't deserve this. The thing was a lie, though, the medical shit. That's a fucking lie thinking to get good treatment. No, medical kills more people. That was terrible. Now they send you out the gate so you don't die on their time. Or they... That's a big myth that you get good medical treatment in the pen.

They would have people... That's a big myth. They would have people die and they'd wake up hard with rigomorists and they would act like they were still alive. They'd be like, quick, I've got a pulse. It's like, got a pulse on his roommate. The guy's as hard as a rock. He's been dead all night. Like, you know, and they would come in.

They'd grab them and go, okay. And they put him on the gurney and they'd run him out and they'd say he died in the ambulance on the way. Yeah, imagine that. What are you doing? I had a cataract I was one cut out. My counselor's only, you got the way to get out.

They can cut that fucking catarack out for you. You don't want them to. Yeah, I don't. But that was a big myth. I mean, people believe that bullshit. The medical, it's fucking, it's not true. The Missouri wasn't bad. Wait a guy.

Listen, you do a whole podcast. You do a whole podcast. Just the different people that died in there. just needed just basic medical attention i don't think we had anybody die but oh yeah listen there's like 300 people in my camp we had three people 300 people in my camp but if you look at oh i had there was 18 people 1,000 people in coleman so it's like every every three to six months somebody's dying that was in marion too by the way that's where i did that's where i did my last bit we talked i say that message when they shut down alcatraz they moved everybody in

marion but it's only like a it's not it's not a max it's a it's a it's a minimum medium right victor boots there you know yeah yeah yeah of course i know yeah the merchant of death right yeah yeah he's over there but he's the character that uh nicholas yeah was based on in uh uh lord of war lord of war i don't know i did i don't remember the name but when they when they uh brought all the prisoners from apatraz what they did you know when they called people a challenge shit, and Alcatraz had a big steam whistle. Okay.

So what they did, they brought that steam whistle to marry, and every Saturday at noon, they'd blow that some bitch, just to remind you we were out. So it was across the street in the main prison. I was in a camp. You see the steam rolling off that whistle, just to remind you.

Have you ever been to Alcatraz? I had a chance, because I'm a Raider fan. I went up to a couple games out there. I never did. Are you serious? I never, I might want to say. But see, one time I was out there, was on bond. I was getting ready to get my, I thought I was getting probation in Missouri.

And I was, I went to Oakland. I went to a Raider game. I was going to go to Outtrak. This might be bad karma. If I go to prison, made it to send me. I didn't go and they still went ahead and sent me to prison. So I should have went. I went. I went, uh, I went, uh, I went to San Francisco and went. It's, uh, yeah, they got, they got fairies that run over there. I think I was going to go once, but the ferry was sold out. Yeah, we went and you could, you know, when I, you could put on, you get headphones and what happens is you follow like a line and it's like, you know, you go to, you know, number two, you go to number two and you're standing in front of a cell and they have the guy that was in, had been previously in that cell, he's talking to you and he's like, I was arrested in, or, you know, sentenced in 1931. I served 11 years in this cell. And he would tell you this whole thing, you'd be like, oh my God. And, you know, I'm 12. 22 years old. And then you go to like, you know, go to number four.

You go to number four. And then there would be maybe a guard would tell you a story. Maybe the guy was dead and he couldn't do it. And there'd be a guard that'd say, you know, this is where, you know, Al Capone spent seven years, you know, for a taxi. And so you do the whole. He died there, didn't he? No. He died in Marion.

Died in, and he died in Florida. He went to, um, he went to Sarasota. He had a house on the bay in Sarasota. and he died there. He died of syphilis. Died a syphilis. Yeah, I knew he died of syphilis. I was thinking he died in epitraz.

That, by the way, that was curable, but he didn't want to tell his wife that he had syphilis. Oh. Because he, you know, so he didn't want to get treatment for the syphilis. So he never told his wife. Instead, he just suffered with syphilis. Give it to her or what? I don't know the rest of that story, but, you know, what an idiot.

Like, I just, fuck, I just go get the treatment. Like, it's penicillicillin. Yeah. Well, tell her. No shit. Yeah, exactly. Or on up to it. Listen, I banged some fucking chick a few years ago,

and I got fucking, you know, this, and we both need to go, or we could both die. Sorry, you're disappointed in me. Did you fly con air any? I was on that fucker three times. Yeah. Did you go to Oklahoma? Went through Oklahoma.

Boy, that's a fucking conveyor belt, right? Like, that's a machine. Yeah, no shit. When they line you up like chickens on the, on the thing, and I'll chain everybody up. That's like assembly line work there. My girlfriend went through it, too. we talk about it like they just yeah you walk up on the little stairs and they

those guys are so fast yeah oh yeah they pull your pull your cuffs off that's weird it it's it's almost like they're almost not on Connor they almost they they literally they will hit you with the key twist it twist it twist it twist it and then yank practically so it's like they are so fast like your hands you and then they pull them off you you're like like factory workers yeah it's something out it's amazing how fast they boom give you a brown a brown bag with a baloney sandwich and keep going and go here and go there and go up there and you're in room 105

he gets some bitch on a plane all cuff uh yeah that's good time everybody he's heard this like he's heard this several everybody talks about that being on like the bus trying to eat your one of my one of the guys I met there he was a guy from Marketsall this is like my third Conair trip

he goes hey buddy when you go the bathroom they take these handcuffs or I said fuck no the fuck you're talking about I don't, that's, I don't know how people shit. Do people actually shit? What, in the bus? On the fuck, no one, the con airplane when you got to.

Oh, I don't, listen, I, I know guys have pissed their pants. But they take you back to the bathroom. Yeah. Well, how are you going to, how are you going to do that? That's what I mean. No, first, you know, one of the things is the same, it's like designed where they give you, like, peanut butter. They give you all these things that basically keep you from going to the bathroom. You got, you got a piss, though.

All the women up front. Yeah, all they got. Keep your head and shoulders out of the aisle because them guys wanted to sniff them girls' box whenever I go. My girlfriend was like, she's like, all the guys, hey, baby, hey, baby, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. She said it was horrible. Good time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got shipped around through Conner, so I went to, I got arrested in Tennessee, so they sent me to Oklahoma. I went to, uh, to, uh, to, uh, to, Atlanta. We're at? I was. I was. I was at the Robert Day date. I was at the Robert Day date. Dayton initially I was at Union City but then they actually when I I was there about six months and then I got moved to Atlanta City Detention Center and about a year later they closed

down Union City because it had so many violations and but I was only locked up for those two places was a year and then I was sentenced and I went to Coleman I was in Youngstown for a month Robert A Dayton Center you ever heard that and it's in Atlanta Robert Robert Dayton Detention Center That was bad Then I went to Oklahoma And then married

The last trip Yeah Marianna I've Marrienne Illinois Pete Rose went there Pete Rose did his time there He watched a 90

World Series there And that They said he spent most of the time In the warden's office kissing his ass What I How much time did Pete Rose do They got him

They didn't get him for gambling They got him for tax evasion Oh okay I think he only did six six months. I think he was, the Reds won the World Series in 1990 and I think he watched it from the, I think he watched his team in the pen. I'm pretty sure

that's the story I heard. In the pen? Well, he's in a camp. Oh, okay. I'm gonna say it the hell. The camp. He was in a, he did six months, I believe. I think he did much time. Year. That's what I heard. So. The myth was that he'd give money

to help build a softball field. It was a nice softball field. It was top of the line. Really not. It was nice. Nice infield, smooth infield. There's a rumor that he'd give money to help build a softball field. True or not, I don't know. I was going to say, there's lots of rumors. Oh, anything else?

Buy my book. Definitely. Bye. That's your, you can have that. That's your book and your prescript. I need to. Matt the cat. I would have called him Matt the cat if he's locked up and made the slick cat.

Slick talking cat. I appreciate you guys watching. And if you like the video, do me a favor. and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this um share the video if anybody a lot of guys are like bro i don't understand your channel's not blowing up well you're not sharing my video yeah um also leave a comment in the comment section i try and respond to most of the comments i've been slacking the last couple days but i'll jump back on it and i really do appreciate it also my email is in the description so if you want to send me an email directly

you can send me an email and thank you very much for yeah i appreciate you coming and all right see you you see you