Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Meeting With SBF And Reporting Live At His Trial | Tiffany Fong

Episode Date: December 3, 2023

Meeting With SBF And Reporting Live At His Trial | Tiffany Fong

I mean, I talked to Sam, like, regularly throughout house arrest, and they never approached him, they never gave him a plea deal. He was like, I don't even think I would take one. I think Sam genuinely doesn't feel he meant to harm customers. So in that way, in his mind, he doesn't feel he's guilty, even though, I mean, obviously with the evidence, it's like, obviously you committed crimes. I intended to believe him.

You have to admit, right? I'm really not that charismatic. I'm not a great public speaker, and he came up with a way to make it work for him. I mean, you have to hand that to him, right? He's, he's smart, he's smart, he knows how to of play. So Sam Bateman-free, like I said, I've done a couple of videos on him. I do have a cursory understanding of the case. It is is kind of convoluted as a result, you know, because of the, you know, oh, this was a trading company. This was our, you know, our multiple tokens. And so it seems,

it seems confusing to me. It does. I get it. Like the first time I interviewed Sam, I wasn't expecting to say yes and I had no idea what I was asking and we're talking about. I didn't even know Alameda versus FTX. I was very confused as well. So I get it. I get it. Right. So yeah, like I, like I said, a basic understanding. What I do know is what a Ponzi scheme is. Oh. You know, and which to me in general, and every time I say something like this, I always get bombarded in the comment section. But, you know, listen, the whole, you know, the whole crypto thing, seems like a Ponzi scheme to me. It's just not it's no, it's like buying, you know, when guys will compare it. No, no, it's just like buying, um, stock in a company. I'm like, no,

it's not, you know, I'm like, no. I, and then they try to explain it and I'm like, you're, they could still sell the factories. They can still sell the company, the cars. Right. No, I'm not, I'm not a crypto enthusiast. I mean, like, I own a bunch of crypto, but it's, I got into it without my own doing. I, I, I first got into crypto because a relative of mine was Bitcoin mining. But I'm still, I kind of still think about it sometimes. I'm like, it's kind of just bullshit. Right. I'm on the same boat. But listen, what was even worse is the NFTs. Such bullshit. Yeah. So, but, and I listen, I had a guy who sat down and explained really desperately tried to explain the difference between crypto and Bitcoin. And, you know,

God bless him. He genuinely just really, he really thinks I'm smarter than. I am. I mean, you know, he, he almost had to break out like, you know, like blocks and, you know, the crowns and, you know, the whole thing and draw pictures. I was like, listen, bro, I, I'm sorry. Completely wasted on you. Yeah. But Sam Bankman, for, I do have some questions, though, because I mentioned this to Tyler. Because I said, I said, I'm super interested. Because one, he was telling me, you need to study up. I was like, I kind of know the basics. I don't think reading too much more about it's going to help me much. But what I was, wondering, and I don't know if you know this, and is that, okay, so SBF went to, he went to college,

and then supposedly he started doing some kind of trading. So Bitcoin arbitrage, yes. Yeah, thank you. And made a bunch of money. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is that, that's like, that's what's said, but is that true? That's the story that Sam gave me.

I mean, he went to MIT. Then he went off to work at Jane Street Capital, which is apparently a quant trading firm. and then he decided he wanted to go try starting his own thing and he discovered crypto and Bitcoin and he saw that there was some discrepancy in the price between Bitcoin in America and Bitcoin in Japan so he did some arbitrage trade and apparently was making over a million dollars a day doing that

and that is the story that he's told me it's the story he tells the press and it's something that didn't come up in court at all as potentially a lie that they've sort of cracked so I'm tempted to believe him But I know some people are very skeptical of that story, but I haven't personally seen, like, evidence otherwise. I mean, it just seems like why wouldn't you? Since the whole, you know, altruism thing is BS, you know, like I, listen, talk about a guy playing up his strengths. You have to admit, right? Like, like, if you were like, God, I'm really not that charismatic. I'm not a great public speaker. I'm kind of, I'm a little chunky. I'm a little bit geeky. How can I make this? work for me. And he came up with a way to make it work for him. I mean, you have to hand that to him, right? He's, he's smart. He's smart. He knows how to play. I mean, it's funny because,

like, I think that Sam really does sort of have this obsession with EA, though, like, he talks about it all the time, even though, like, everything's over. Like, he has nothing, he has, like, the whole game is stopped for him. But he really does talk about it in every single conversation. It's like an obsession for him. So I think he does believe in it, but I think it's more that he just thinks that he's the smartest guy in the room. He thinks that he's best equipped to handle everyone else's money. I can't believe you just said that. I was actually thinking. And one of the things I've said is, you know, the problem with thinking you're the smartest guy in the room and not actually being the smartest guy in the room is, you know, it really is a lot of people's downfall where

they, he just thinks, well, I can just, I'll just spin it and spin it. But if you're also talking someone who's sharp, that's not going to work. So you went, so first, let me mention this, is that when did you first talk to, well, how did you get into it? Tell me how you got into it. I know I just watched a video, but I mean, so I just started a YouTube channel a year ago. And the only reason I started it was because I lost a lot of my money to another collapsed crypto company called Salthias. So I lost like, I think it was close. At the time I deposited, it was like over 200K. So it was a lot, it was a lot for me. So I was going through a spiral of depression, just sitting around in bed. I was also going through a breakup

at the time. So I was just like, I need to start doing things. So I started a little YouTube channel, started posting on Twitter. And I just was posting about, first of all, my losses. And that video did better than I expected. And there were other people who had just lost money to Celsius. And they were like, what's happening with the bankruptcy? So I began posting updates just what's going on with the Celsius network bankruptcy. Employees inside of the company began watching my videos, I guess, and started sending me leaked information, like leaked audio files of internal all-hands meetings. So I started posting those on my Twitter and my YouTube channel, and Sam Bacon Fried started following me the day that I posted my first leaked

information bit. So that was September 2022. At the time, Sam was still like the king of crypto. Everyone thought he was like the godsend. And so I thought he was just a big shot. And I just messaged him like, hey, thanks for the follow. So we chatted very briefly, that day in September 2022. Then a couple months later, FTX goes down. And I just think like, okay, I still have that guy's contact. We've messaged

before. And I was like, this is a long shot. This guy's not going to respond to me. And he shouldn't respond. People in his position should not be talking to the press after their company just collapsed and then they're potentially going to get indicted. But I messaged him saying like, hey, obviously there's a lot about FTX in the news

right now. Would you be willing to chat with me and tell me your side of the story? And a couple days later, he gets back to me at midnight. I was on a date at drinks, so I was a little bit drunk. And he messages me at midnight saying, heart, happy to chat, free for the next hour or so for what it's worth. And I was on a date, ran home. I was like, I can't reschedule with this guy.

So I ran home, drunk, and hopped on the phone with him. And that was our first interview turned into a series of, I had two phone interviews with him, and then he was extradited from the Bahamas to the United States. States released on a $250 million bond to his parents' house. And that night that he got released on to house arrest, he texted me, hey, finally back online. So I took my shot again, and I asked, are you allowed visitors? And he said, yes, happy to see you. So that started off a series of in-person interviews. Had you ever done, what is your background? Like, had you ever done anything

like this before? Nothing, nothing remotely close to this. I mean, I went to college. I, I, I, I, I started colleges in architecture major and I switched to communications simply because I'm lazy. I had no desire to do anything in like calm or journalism or anything like that. It's just an easy major. So I guess I have somewhat background in communications. But yeah, after college, I didn't do anything remotely in this realm. I never had aspirations to even like be a YouTuber or a Twitter person. So this was just, it all just kind of happened. But it's been fun. I hear you. I start off in business. And then I got a see i got a see i got a see in um in accounting too and i was like yeah i isn't gonna ask

i'm never gonna never gonna do i switched to fine arts it was a breeze i did the same thing i did the same thing i was like this is an mrs degree like i'm just looking for a man at this point um okay so what um all right so well so what were you what were you doing when this whole thing started off like what was your job um um So after college, I never worked a full-time nine to five job. I just made a bunch of stupid online stores. Like I made a bunch of, it's stupid. It's like kind of scammy. Like those people on YouTube who are selling their courses. I don't sell courses. I'm not scamming anyone. But I met a bunch of people when I traveled after college. I met a bunch of people who were digital nomads and they taught me how to like set up online like print on demand stores. So I set up tens of them. And it's basically just like making silly designs, slapping them on items like t-shirts or mugs. And people can, buy them and they get printed automatically onto the item and sent to the customer. So I'm not actually like holding inventory. So anyway, I have a bunch of those kinds of stores. So it still makes me passive income in the background and I haven't logged into them in years. So that's basically

been my job. Like I haven't really been doing much of anything. So I certainly had the time on my hands. You need to attach some of those to your YouTube channel. I know. I haven't. Well, because a lot of the stores are just really cringy. Some of them are catered to like teenage girls and they're just kind of like cringy flowery stupid designs and I'm like I don't want anyone to see these that I made these this is embarrassing so I don't attach them okay so you you connected with with SBF you did you go there or did you just talk to him did you actually the first time I the first two times I spoke with him we just had phone calls that was before he was imprisoned in the Bahamas and extradited so two phone calls then when he got put out to house arrested at his parents house I was like

Are you allowed visitors? He says yes. So I visited him right after Christmas. I told him like, hey, I'm going to be in San Francisco. He lives in Stanford because I was visiting my sister's family in San Francisco. So I was like, can I come visit you? He said yes. So I went over to his house for the first time on December 27th.

Okay. And you recorded it? I recorded some of our conversations. I don't remember which dates I recorded. But, yeah, I haven't released much of them. I also didn't want to get too entrenched in the actual trial, and I actually did get contact. I was scared of that happening, and I actually did get contacted by the DOJ a couple weeks before his trial. The prosecutors on the case were requesting my records, so I had to

lawyer up around that time. Yeah, that was scary. It wasn't expecting to ever talk to the DOJ. But yeah, so I haven't released much of those conversations, but I did visit him multiple times over his house arrest. Right. Well, what were the, what were the, what were the conversations. I mean, if you don't want to be specific, I get it, but, you know, in general. I can talk about it. Like, the first time I visited him was right after he'd gone out of prison in the Bahamas. And he's like a relative, he's had a pretty charmed life. And he seemed very shaken by his experience being in prison in the Bahamas. But less so because he found, he was like, okay, the conditions were discussing, but that's something I could get used to. He just really

struggled with not having internet or any contact with the outside world. So he was like going crazy. after that. So our first conversations kind of revolved around how he was like basically going mad in the Bahamas. And I think a lot of our conversations largely obviously revolved around the case and the charges against him, but also just kind of him as a person. And obviously a lot of people don't want to be remotely sympathetic or hear anything that's humanizing about Sam. But we did talk a lot about his mental health. I mean, he's like a pretty depressed guy always has been. He like takes he uses M-SAM patches for his depression. He, yeah, has ADHD depression, et cetera.

So we've talked a lot about his mental health and basically even just like the prospect of him going to jail for the rest of prison for the rest of his life. So we've talked about quite a bit. And I feel like I just got to know him on a personal level, like what he was like growing up and as a kid and all that personal stuff. Well, I think that, you know, and it's funny because I actually talk. to a, I interviewed an FBI, a retired FBI agent the other day. And, you know, and of course I've met a bunch of guys that were locked up for various types of schemes, you know, Ponzi schemes, business

opportunity schemes, you know, just, you know, bank fraud, fraud schemes, credit cards, you name it, I can go on on. But the point is, is that what, what I tend to notice is that the majority of the time, and I mean like, not like 80%, like 98% of the time, Ponzi scheme guys, they never ended up wanting it to be a Ponzi scheme. Like I've known guys that have, they started a company, they ran it for five years or even 10 years. And then something goes wrong. Yeah. And instead of saying, man, this was a mistake. Like, I don't want to have to report this to my investors. So I'm going to fudge the numbers a little bit, but I'll make it up next quarter. The next quarter you don't. So what happens is then you, because of that, you now make a little bit more

risky investments and you have another bad quarter. Now you're really in the hole. And then you go, well, I can't, I can't tell them now. Yeah. It didn't make it. So I'm going to have to fudge it a little bit, but I need to borrow more money. So now I'm lying to get more money. Listen, within a year, it's a full blown Ponzi scheme.

There's no way to get out of it. Yeah. And, you know, they always say, oh, this guy's a con man. he didn't they typically didn't um start off that way it's situational it happened and now they're just desperately trying to get out of it and then a lot of people you would think that once they realize i can't fix this i need to salvage as much as i can for the benefit of my investors that's not what they think what they then think is how long can i just hold off the inevitable yes and and i feel like maybe that's what he thought or he was still in that

he was still in that mindset of, I can pull this off. That honestly sounds a lot like what happened. I mean, it sounded like there were issues, I don't know, starting, I guess it depends when you want to start calling them issues, but it sounds like a lot of it started in like summer last year. And I think that he basically thought that he'd be able to make all the money back. And I don't think his intent from the get-go of starting FTX was ever, like, you know, he set out to just take a bunch of customer funds and buy yachts or anything like that.

I mean, in the first place, he's not necessarily someone who even enjoys, like, yachts and material things. Granted, he did have a $35 million penthouse in the Bahamas, but he's not someone who has, like, Rolexes and yachts and stuff like that. So I don't think his goal really was to set out to just enrich himself so that he can buy a bunch of stuff. Obviously, the money, like, obviously $8.6 billion are reused, so I'm not, like, fouching for the guy. But I really don't think it started that way, and it does feel like there were issues at some point. he started using FTX customer funds to sort of cover up issues, but thought that

hey, we're going to get more investor funding. It's been so easy. People were throwing billions of dollars at him and he's like in his 20s. I think he was just thought that everything was going to work out. I don't think he even saw the possibility of this happening. I think that he was just so overconfident that he just didn't even think this would happen.

Well, there's also the problem of like BionX. Like how detrimental was the you know, the Rift or the issue with Bynex, like... Oh, Binance, yeah. Oh, my God, people... It's okay.

Crypto. Fuck crypto. I mean, how, so how bad was that? The issue, it sounded like, so Binance was actually one of the first investors in FTX. And I think they, like, wanted to help them out and see them do well. But then FTX started becoming an actual real competitor to Binance. So it sounded like they started to be, started to have a rockier and more competitive. relationship as time went on and um yeah they started just doing sort of making underhanded comments

about each other sort of underhandedly talking crap about i don't know can we curse in this yeah was it was it twitter didn't i forget that it the CEO of uh in its by necks by nance by nance close enough people know like the ceo of binance um like he made some comment on was it twitter or something like that and which made people think something's off. Yes. Yes. So they had had some ongoing little rivalry. Sam had made some negative comments about the Binance CEO, sort of making fun of the fact that the, like, finance, it doesn't make clear where they're actually running from,

and there are maybe some shady things about finance. So I think Sam commented, like, hey, is CZ, the founder of finance? Is he even allowed into the United States? Is he allowed into Washington, D.C., kind of just making snide comments about finance. So ultimately a few, like within a month or so, then obviously FTCS was on Rocky Waters. And the Binan CEO already had a bunch of FTT tokens from their prior business dealings. And just he said that like, okay, from what we've heard about FTT, we're going to be selling our holdings of FTT, which I think was about $500 million or so.

But that obviously, like, it created a lot of fear in the market. And little did we know, FTX was basically a house of cards built on FTT tokens. So that finances CEO's tweet kind of made people start selling FTT and also pulling out of FTC, pulling their funds out. So some people would call it a run on the bank, although FTX was not a bank, but we can, I guess, use that phrasing for this. But, yeah, it basically just toppled the whole company. so um and obviously then you know then obviously the the american one went under right so then even though he was insisting that they oh we're good we're good i got excuse me still to this day i mean i haven't talked to him since he's been put into jail but he very consistently said that ftx us was completely

solvent never touched it was the international exchange apparently where all the problems were so he still stands by that but he was actually um banned in and i think it's i think they're called in limine motions or whatever. But he was banned for bringing that up at trials. So that actually he wasn't able to argue that point, but he still stands by and like, we'll stake his life on saying that FTX US is still completely solvent, but it was thrown into bankruptcy without his permission, basically. Yeah. Well, yeah, we'll get to that. But I mean, let's face it. If you were, if he was able to sell all the tokens right now, there's no way he's, people are getting back a dollar on the, on their dollar. Yeah. I mean, so FTT token was specifically for FTX international.

FTX, US apparently had no dealings with FTT since it's technically considered as security. So they were apparently, according to Sam and who believes, a lot of people don't believe Sam in the first place, but I'll just relay that he says that they were entirely separate entities. FTEX had nothing to do with FTT tokens. So they were allegedly completely solvent up until the day of the collapse. Right. But at this point, if they were able to sell all the tokens, you're still not getting your money back. Like, who's, if I put $100 into it, at this point, if I were to turn around and be able to sell it, then nobody's going to give me $100 for it. Yeah.

You're going to be giving me dollars, you know, pennies on the dollar. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, both the companies are, it's like, there's no turning back at this point. Sam still claims to that, but it's like, yeah, it sucks for it. I don't know, even if he's being completely honest, it's like, it's a little bit too late to argue that point at this point. So it's kind of just not great for anyone. involved. So when he, when he decided to, was he ever given a, a plea deal? Like, did they ever,

did the government ever come to him and say, hey? Talk to Sam like regularly throughout house arrest. And throughout all of those months, he said he never, they never approached him. They never gave him a plea deal. And he even said to me, though, he was like, I don't even think I would take one. Because he was like, I don't think they'll, I think Sam genuinely doesn't feel he meant to harm customers. So in that way, in his mind, he doesn't feel he's guilty, even though, I mean, obviously with the evidence, it's like, obviously you committed crimes. But he was like, I don't think they're going to give me anything reasonable. And he was like, so I wouldn't take anything under a few years on house arrest. Like, that's how innocent he felt. Oh, my God. I know. And I was like, Sam, like, I know that you probably didn't sit out to hurt people. But like, come on, dude. Like, if I were you, I would take 10 years in prison. Like, it's not looking so good for you. wow like did you follow um elizabeth holmes trial at all i didn't follow we closely but i'm aware of like the general contours and that she ended up getting like what 12 years or something yeah i think it's i think it's 12 or 13 years i i want to say 13 but i could be wrong wrong

i mean and listen you know to me the amount of money the that okay even though the dollar amount is wrong is is vastly less than sams or then sbf um elizabeth holmes went into it knowing it was a fraud lied from day one to her investors she consistently knew what she was doing wasn't working and and misled tons of people and then intimidated people the entire time so the idea that and then never accepted responsibility yeah the idea that she then turned around and got 13 years is insane. So for me, him thinking, you know, say I'm thinking he's going to get, oh, I, you know, they're going to offer me 10 years, you know, or, or that he was going to get anything less,

you know, than at least, look, I, my prediction is 20 years. The FBI agent I talked to said, what she said? She said 15. I have a buddy who does legal work. He says 15. I have another buddy that does legal work. He says, I agree. I think he is probably looking at 20.

Now. Those seem like very optimistic takes. I mean, just from some people I've talked to, I mean, obviously he's facing up to 115, but just from some people I've talked to, a lot of the stuff that he did at trial is certainly not going to help him. Like obviously testifying and taking the stand at trial might not help him. I don't think Judge Kaplan is his biggest fan because even before trial started, Sam was continually pushing the boundaries of his bail condition.

contacted a former employee, he used a VPN, he leaked Caroline Ellison's diary, which the judge saw as witness intimidation. So he just was already off to a bad start with the judge, and obviously him testifying, and potentially, if the judge perceives him as potentially having perjured himself, you know, all these factors, I do wonder how they would play into the sentencing, because before he had done, or if he had not done any of those things, then those estimates might seem accurate. But now I'm a little bit concerned about his, you know, how this sort of behavior might affect the judge's perception of him. And he still has another trial. And he has a second trial scheduled for March, beginning March 11. And his sentencing is on

March 28th. Is that also federal? Yes. Yes. It's federal. And yeah. So, and it's even there, the one big, the one big charge that he's facing in the second trial that everyone's excited about is the campaign finance charge about his political donations. So that, like, some people have said if that charge wasn't in there, I think that they would definitely throw out the second trial. But some people have said, like, since there's the campaign finance charge in the second trial, they might not want to throw it out.

I don't know if that's true or not. Seems like overkill, but it does. But it's also a very, I was going to say, typically what they do is they will, you know, they'll just say, look, we're not going to run two different trials. Like, let's just, let's just do, I think it's called a Rule 11 where they combine that, the multiple your multiple indictments into you know one jurisdiction and one trial but and then it also depends on the u.s attorney if they'll if they'll if they're okay with that yeah but because it is one is saying hey this is a financial crime and this one is campaign you know this is

whatever you know campaign finance i was going to say bribery um but yeah i think there was a bit of the bribery in yeah i think that's the problem so it was so funny about that is that I actually is that I've actually bribed a politician. That's fun. Yeah, well. That's exciting. It was so funny about it too is that when they, it was in the newspaper and everything. And then this was after I was locked up, this all came out.

I mean, I was questioned about it prior to being locked up. And then when I was locked up, it came out. It's on the front page of the newspaper. And the camp, the politician that I bribed was like, this guy's a lot. hire he's this and then a year later he gets indicted for another bribery charge goes to trial loses gets three years in prison oh my god oh my mine never happened because the statute of limitations by the time they caught me they couldn't indict him lucky lucky lucky him not me yeah okay not lucky i was already locked up yeah you know and listen and mine was well no mine was

mine was pretty blatant too but it was nowhere the dollar amount was nowhere near um you know what what um spf was is is uh charged with well there was also a so it wasn't even just u.s politicians there was another another charge for bribing the Chinese government because they had a hundred or they had a billion dollars in Chinese bank accounts and the government just froze all their money a billion dollars and they tried for over a year to do it the right way they got lawyers involved and were trying to like get their hands on the money that they had in there weren't able to do it and then ultimately

they were given some wallet address and we're like if you send a hundred million or so into this wallet then they'll loosen up your funds which I'm going to be honest if I had a billion dollars that was trapped somewhere and I had to maybe some little I'm like hey with Sam

there I'm like there's no moral or ethical judgment on me there I would have paid it to get a hold of a billion dollars first of all it's it's free money like it's not like when you're dealing with that kind of money and you're just it's almost like he's the fed he's just making up numbers like oh let's print let's print you know a hundred billion dollars and you know then that's pretty much what he's doing let's just borrow this much from you know this here and we'll we'll use that which it's all kind of just

made up anyway so um okay so he's he got so found guilty about to do another trial or about to be have to sit for another trial. So his sentencing, I wonder if his sentencing will be pushed back. It's in March, right? Yeah, I wondered that as well, because the first trial took about four weeks, and I don't know how long the second trial would take. The first trial was seven charges. This one's five charges.

And, yeah, the sentencing is scheduled for the 28th. So that only leaves 17 days in between the second trial and sentencing. So I'd assume that if they go through with the second trial, it seems like they would push it back, but I'm no lawyer. okay so well he's got he's got a rude awakening when he goes to federal prison well he's locked up right now anyway true true he's at mdc yeah i was going to say there's so uh you know obviously there is no internet you know there's no like he's already got major problems i'm sure is there any like sort of where you have some basic access to like a couple websites or is it just you don't get to touch a

computer. Well, when, no, he's, he's not touching a computer. Not, not locked up in that, like, right now, he's found guilty. So right now, I think he's in the, he might be in the BOP's custody. He doesn't move, by the way. Like, he's still probably sitting in the same cell. And somebody just said, okay, he's no longer in the U.S. Marshals holdover. He's now in the BOP's custody. So, and you get different privileges, but I doubt any of that's going to change for him. So, but. But, but, But when you're actually in a prison, you can, you have access to a computer, but it's only for the purposes of downloading music and what else, you know, being able to monitor your commissary account, monitor how many true links, which are minutes, right, on your phone that you can use, you get three, about roughly about 300 minutes a month. So that's about 10 minutes a day you can use. You can only use the phone for 15 minutes anyway.

and then you get to use it is so do you mean like to make phone calls he can only use the phone for 15 minutes at a time yes oh wow and how many phone calls does someone get um well i mean depends on how long you talk you can use up to 300 minutes so if you were right right so if he were to make if you were to call four people a day for 15 minutes he could maybe go five days and then he'd just be out you're not calling anyone wow you can email people through the core links system right i i think their side is called true links are the out here I think it's called core links so they can email you but it's like they email you to the website and then I have to out here go to the website to read their email oh so it's like you know it's like checking in you're going to a

separate website they're not emailing you you can get a notification they'll say hey if you go to the core links website there's an email right and he can email me and the emails take about 45 minutes to an hour to get, to go back and forth. Wow. Yeah. Is that because there's, is there someone monitoring every email back and forth? Is that what it is?

So, you know, I can't imagine that everybody is being monitored, but they do run it through some kind of, you know, some kind of software to determine, you know, like if you're,

you know, like if you're saying the word terrorist or bomb or gun or escape or something. Right. And they take stuff like that very seriously. I mean, there was a guy in prison who, got like three years. He's at a low. And so he's at the low, calls his dad. And his family owned a large construction company, which is how he got in trouble. And he got like, whatever it was,

three or four years. I forget exactly what it was. But he calls his dad after a couple of days, says, hey, I'm here. And they were like, he was like, oh, okay, how are you doing? You're doing okay? Yeah, yeah. And he goes, yeah. He said, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. And the guy said, he said, hey, he said, how big is a rec yard out there? Oh, it's pretty big. He said, yeah, he said, because I was thinking about taking the helicopter over there. He's like, I can land in the helicopter, pick you up, we can go out for lunch. Like, he's joking around, right? And they're laughing about it. The guy by, within a few hours, he was locked up, thrown into the shoe, and transferred to a, to like a medium or a pin. Oh. And stayed there the whole time. And even though

was clear that it was a joke it's like going on on a plane and joking about a bomb. Oh, God. Don't do it. It's not funny. There's no joking. I get you. You think it's fun. It's not. You know what I'm saying? And that's just how they feel. And that's it. So don't even play.

So, yeah, it's, it's serious. So, you know, so they monitor your stuff. And also that costs money. Everything across the board costs money, but it's not going to bother him because he's always going to have people putting money on his books. But you can also only put so much money on someone's books.

Oh. So let's say I want to go to commissary. I can only borrow and it or buy and it depends on which, which institution you go to. They're all different. So people that are watching this, some guys would be like, that's not true. You can spend $420 a month. You know, okay, everyone's different. So it's like you could spend, let's say, $75 a week.

So you can go to commissary once a week. You can spend, let's say, 75. It might be $100. You know, 75 or 85 or whatever the commentary allows you to spend. But within the month, you can only spend up to, let's say, 375 or 410, whatever it comes to. And that's it. So if you're thinking, oh, well, I can buy lots of stuff and I can, no, you can't. If you're thinking, oh, I can talk on the phone all day long, no, you can't.

And that 15-minute phone call, by the way, after you make it and you hang up, you don't get to make another call for an hour. Oh, wow. Which really gives you just enough time to get back in line. oh god you're gonna wait oh my god more people make calls you're back in line you make a few phone calls or you make up your phone call you might as well start over again and there oh it's it's listen it's it's rough i mean and and there's no even the even the email there's no spell check yeah there's no you know i'm a horrendous speller yeah so you know i need spell check yeah uh what else he's going to most likely what he will do

he's never been talked to the way he's being talked to right now do you mean by other inmates or do you mean by the guards? No, just the staff. The guards are talking to you like, but they might, some of them will probably treat him kind of like a celebrity. They'll probably be a little bit polite, but other ones will just treat him like he's a dog. Some inmates will be kind of, you know,

they'll feel bad for him. And some of them are probably looking up to him. For all the wrong reasons, I would say, you know, once he's moved, so if you get over 20 years, and that's remaining. So let's say if you get 20 years, you only immediately they give you good time. So he'll have to serve 17 years on a 20 year sentence, right? Oh. So they would allow him to go to a low security prison. now if he gets let's say he gets 30 years they'll calculate gain time but that gain time means

he's going to do probably 26 years and he's going to go to a medium security prison and he's not going to enjoy a medium security prison it's like a real prison so what would the difference be I mean the basic difference for someone who doesn't know too much about the different sorts of prisons um it looks like a real prison like there's two tiers You know, when you walk into the unit and there's that, you know, that, whatever you want, that balcony thing that goes all the way around and, you know, you have a two-man cell. Some of them are three-man cells. And by the way, most of these are cells that were designed for one person.

Oh. And so then halfway through construction in Coleman, the facility I was in, they decided, oh, you know what? Two-man. By the time they were finished with it, they started making three-man cells. Oh, my God. Three men and a cell designed for one. It's horrible. In the bunk bed, like it's a three-man bunk bed.

It's like you're sleeping in a submarine. Oh, my God. And there's a door, you know, they close the door. Bam, they feed you, they can feed you through the door. There's a toilet and a sink. So you're going to the bathroom in front of other guys. There's no, there's no divider. Oh.

Oh, it's horrible. Oh, God. Do you have any privacy? How about the showers? Any privacy? You have a little bit. You have a little door you can close. Like, there's a little door.

You know, you can see like probably from your knee. down and probably from your from your shoulders up um uh and that that's at the medium and the medium's a much tougher place that's where you have guys that they do home invasions these are guys that do these are serious guys they've done bank robberies they've kidnapped people they're they're big time drug dealers they've harmed people like there are people there that have life sentences you know they've murdered people there you're more violent criminals are not going to probably get to a low some of them do okay you know so if you got 30 years and you've done 10 years in a pen and 10 years in a medium

and you've got 10 more years left or so you'll probably go to a low as long as you haven't had been any problems you know guys get stabbed in the rec yard guys get hit with locks guy there's fights like I've never seen so many fights uh but if you're respectful and you don't run up bills you don't borrow from anybody you're respectful to everybody and you keep your head down you get a job he probably could not have any problems now the problem with him is everybody knows he's he's filthy they're still looking at him like he's filthy rich yeah yeah most likely what happens is somebody approaches him and says look you know if you start putting money on my books you know me and one or two other guys books whatever and it won't be a lot it'd be a hundred bucks or something

100 bucks, 200 bucks, but of course, it's Sam Bankman-Fried. So it's probably $300. Let's say $200, $300 a month on one or two guys' books, and nobody will ever bother him. Oh. You know? That seems like a fair trade. It does seem fair. Because, I mean, he's like a little, he's like the nerdyest guy I've ever met.

He's not intimidating or he's not aggressive or whatever. So I'm just like, I don't know how he's going to do in prison in a medium or I don't know. What's above a medium? Penn. A pen. Yeah. Oh, he can't go to a pen. He can't go to a pen.

Okay. It would be devastating for him to go to him. Listen, even a medium. Like, he, luckily, he probably, I'm sure he doesn't realize this. But going to, being locked up before he goes to a prison, he's right now getting a lot of schooling on how to behave. Okay. You know, what to talk about, what not to talk about. They'll actually, a lot of guys will respect him because, you know, they'll think he's, you know, it's a scam.

And wow, what an amazing scam. you're you're so smart you're they'll they'll have super respect for him in that way and then some guys will respect him too because he went to trial he didn't plead guilty he didn't go in and he didn't testify against people he didn't guys will respect that but for the most part how could I put this on a scale from one to 10 of masculinity out here in the real world I'm probably a four or five I'm not the most masculine guy. Five foot six. I don't play sports.

I don't hunt and fish. I couldn't talk to you about sports. I don't, you know, that's just not, I'm not that guy, right? In prison,

I'm a one, maybe. That's if I throw some base in my voice. Like, what's up, man? What's up? How you doing?

Like, I'm, you know, it's like I'm, and I'm still a one. I'm a little tiny. I'm a soft white guy. Yeah.

He's not. not going to do it. Like, guys are going to be coming up to him. Sam is a one in the real world. I know. That's what I'm saying. It's, it's bad. Like, he's going to, they're going to be guys asking him, hey, man, let me talk to you in my cell. Now, luckily, I was, you know, I already understood. Like guys were, hey, man, let me talk to you myself for a for a minute. I immediately said, why? I just want to talk to you real quick. Why? Let's talk out here. Or will you think something's going to happen? If I don't go in your cell, I don't have to find out, bro. What's up? What do you need? What are we doing?

And then they were like, they realize, ah, he's a little more savvy. He's not, I can't get a way. No, I can't. Yeah. And I'm not saying that he's going to, I'm not saying it would be. I don't think Sam is very savvy. And I don't think he like would talk back to people in a way that would be maybe respectable. I feel like he's quite timid.

And even like when I, like, I posted something that got him in trouble about the political donations. And I was even like, Sam, are you mad when I did? And he like can't even tell me that he's upset at me. He was, he was just like, it's okay. Like, I just don't, I've never seen him get. sort of aggressive or anything like that. So I'm just like, she's not going to do so well. Most likely what he'll do is he'll teach like GED or he'll teach a crypto course or something. And although that's comical, my charges bank fraud and it's all related to real estate fraud,

I taught the real estate course in prison for 10 years in the medium and the camp. So do you actually get money that you get to keep if you do one of these jobs? Or is it more just like a hobby? Does it go towards your time, your good time or whatever? What is? So when I did that, okay, so if you teach, let's say GED, you actually get paid. And now, it depends on which grade you are. They have like a grade one, two, and three. If you're grade one, you make probably 120, 130 bucks a month. If you're a grade two, you make about 70. If you're grade three, you make about $20. Wow. I think I was a grade one and eventually I was a grade two, but only for like a month or so. And then as far as,

the real estate course was concerned, which he could, he could teach something like a business course, even though clearly he's not good at it, a business course or a crypto course, that you're doing for free, but it's called, it's programming, right? Like if you take the course, you're programming, or if you're teaching it, you're programming, and now wasn't like this when I was there, but now they actually give you time off of your sentence. So he can earn time off his sentence for that sort of thing, which, so that's why he'll desperately be doing that that's good i hope he does that he will listen his biggest problem is he's the same basic problem well i guess i was had a better mindset but still i had a horrible mindset when i went in

which was you know initially you know for me it was it was arrogance and just narcissism and i was just a complete jerk and thought i was so smart and so clever and i even though i realized what i'd done was wrong. I didn't want to admit that it hurt anybody or what was a big deal. I just kind of shrugged it off and you're making a bigger deal about this than it really is. And then once you get in there and you start, if you really start thinking about it and you start realizing, you know, it took took me a couple years to start to realize like, I should be here. This is where I'm supposed to be. Like they didn't make a mistake. Like, I don't think they should have given me that much time. But I definitely need to be, should have come here. Like, I, I, I,

I have some issues. Like, and so my fear with him is that, you know, he's gone to trial. And this happens with a lot of guys that go to trial that are clearly guilty. They go to trial. They go to prison. They complain the whole time they're there. They get out and they still feel like they shouldn't have gone to prison. Yeah.

And then they typically get in trouble again. They're just miserable. Yeah. And that seems like, and I don't know him, but like you have to own up to I fucked up. Yeah. Like, I do feel like he really doesn't think he. Fucked up. I mean, he's definitely aware that what he's done has hurt a lot of people, and he's expressed, like, remorse over the fact that people were hurt. But I feel like he still thinks like, but it was mostly bad luck. If C's, if like, you know, that CZ, a finance didn't do this, like, then none of this would have happened. I feel like he, he feels remorse for the, or if he feels pain for the people he hurt, but I don't think he really thinks he did something wrong. I mean, when he was at trial and he took the stand, he never, did he ever admit like this was a major mistake?

Did he ever say he thought, like, he never said like, hey, I, like, I don't even know how to say it. Like, it's fraud. Like, you're lying about things. Yeah, he never, he never really said that. I mean, he expressed that he felt sorry that he ended up harming customers. I think that's like the closest he went to. that, but he basically stuck to the argument. I mean, obviously, this gets into kind of the weeds of finance and crypto exchanges, but

he was like, well, FTX international had a margin trading program. Alameda was just another customer of FTX, so I thought that I was doing everything by the books. Like, he basically is still arguing that he thought that he was doing something that was fine, but, um, but, but the, the, uh, the, the, uh, the girlfriend and the other people that were involved in the, in the company testified that he clearly knew this was not correct. There wasn't like a smoking gun of a message where they explicitly were like, let's use customer funds, but they basically called it FTX borrows, us borrowing money from

FTCS, which in Sam's mind, he's now sort of justifies and sticks to the argument that this was margin trading. We were borrowing, but other people borrowed money on FTCs because they were margin trading. But obviously, like, it doesn't make sense with the numbers. It doesn't check out, like, but I don't think he's admitted that yet. It doesn't make sense when your customers didn't agree to it. Exactly. Exactly. So he's in a tough spot. I mean, found guilty on all counts within four hours of the jury deliberating. So you understand that if he goes to trial on the second trial and he loses, which he'll positive he'll lose. Now when he gets sentenced, he's now in category one because he's now a convicted felon.

It doesn't even matter, by the way, that he wasn't a convicted felon at the time. No, you're a convicted felon being, so now he's convicted felon. So he's already got a problem. The second problem he has is that the judge can decide I'm going to run these, you know, he can say consecutive. He can say concurrent. He could even do a mix. You know, I've known guys that have split it, like a guy got four years. And then he got another sentence that was supposed to be four years and he split it.

So the guy ended up with six years. years. But, you know, the judge could say, okay, well, I'm going to run them both at the same time. And it still ends up being whatever the maximum sentence is, which is 20, or he could just stack them and say, yeah, you got 20 for this, assuming he gets 20. You get 20 for this, and you're getting five for this. Oh, that was 25. That's, yeah. Oh, God. That's rough. I mean, I don't know. He will eventually go to a, he will eventually at some point, assuming he gets 20 years, let's say. He'll, after 10 years, you can go to a. camp. So eventually he would be able to go to a camp.

He doesn't seem to be a rule follower. I was a very good rule follower when I was locked up. I really was just terrified. So he might be able to get a cell phone. Like, you know, he could probably, listen, if he's, if he works it and he has, you have a little bit of money and people that are willing to kind of move things around for you. I don't know. I can't imagine that you, he could tell his mom, mom, I need you to put money on this guy's books. Because mom would be like, nah, you're going to get me thrown up, thrown in prison. Yeah. Like who's going to help him with those things? Yeah.

Easy. Yeah, that's rough. Yeah, I don't know if he could tell his parents that. That would be, that would be that. Yeah, think about it. Think about his, aren't they like ethics professors or something? I mean, they are. They are.

They're law professors. Yeah. And his mom wrote about ethics. Putting something on someone's books. Oh, you can't tell your mom. She's not going to help you out. oh god he's gonna have some problem and then does he still have like friends and buddies or that's the thing i mean he said that his closest friends were the people he worked with and his

closest closest closest friends were the the star witnesses so i don't think they're so close anymore um like i think sam and i got close but i don't know whether or not he's willing to talk to me i like i kind of consider him a friend but i obviously think he's guilty so i haven't necessarily been like vouching for his innocence out here so i'm not i don't know if he'll want to talk to me or but um i don't know he didn't have very like when i was visiting him throughout house arrest he said he didn't really have any consistent visitors other than michael lewis who is the author of the his the book about him going infinite um outside of that i mean maybe he had other friends but they just weren't talking to him in that period because of legal reasons so i'm not really sure maybe he

has a couple of other friends but he didn't necessarily name anyone to me yeah problems oh god um i'd go visit him if he lets me Yeah, have you, you haven't reached out to him during the trial? I sent him one letter in September, but his PR guy said that he isn't receiving letters. Like another journalist I spoke to said that she sent him a letter to and apparently he's not receiving them allegedly. I don't know if that's true. Yeah, but he hasn't contacted me. I mean, when you're waiting, your sentencing, are you allowed to, like, be talking to people normally?

Yeah, absolutely. Especially if someone's, if they're going to get your mail. like they'll mail you letters to the mail department and then they call mail you know once once a day they the guard comes in he's mail call mail call and he's you know he'll yell out everybody's name hey boom so-and-so cox here you know and then so-and-so and so-and-so and then cox you got another letter so he'll definitely well someone on his team told me i can't talk to him but i don't know if that's more because they're worried about the legal reasons or yeah that sounds more like it he didn't want to say well we'll tell them that you you're not getting letters you're not allowed

the letters. Right. Right. What else? He, okay. And this is interesting to hear about. Yeah, he's, he's, he's, it's going to be, it's going to be interesting. Do you think he'll actually get beat up or is actual like prison rape? Is that a real fear? Um, in federal prison, I think if it was a pen, it's possible. I mean, that's possible. Really, really be honest, it's probably possible in a medium, too. If you're smart, then you don't get yourself in that situation. Let me put it like this. And this sounds cruel.

But if you get beat up or stabbed in prison, you probably had it coming. So, you know, it's pretty easy. You be respectful to everyone. You don't gamble. You do not run up bills. And, you know, you really should be okay. Like it's- That likes gambling.

that's a problem that would get you in a lot of trouble and and saying these little snide comments that he said you know uh to people like you know you get comfortable in there and you make a comment to something there's a lot of these guys are bipolar you don't know what's going to set them off you might say something to them they walk off and 45 minutes later they built it up in their mind next thing you know they come in your cell and they just attack you oh that is terrifying right So, and as far as rape is concerned, so it's typically what would happen. First of all, there's, there's homosexuals in prison. Yeah.

So that's not really, it's not like it's a necessity, right? Like it's, like they'll get themselves, they'll find a gay guy that they just stick with and they, you know, they seduce him or they pay him, you know, they'll give him commentary, whatever. There are probably some guys that they, and they have a name for him, right? like they're called like booty bannets. Oh my God. It's horrible. And those guys enjoy pressuring someone. So they'll kind of intimidate you to the point.

And that's what they'll do. They'll intimidate someone. And that's probably, remember I told you the guy that told me like, hey, want you come in myself for a second? That's probably what was going to happen. Because there were two guys that were friends of his that were standing beside his cell. So I know when I walked in there, they were going to walk in and close the door. and now I'm going to sell with three guys.

Oh, God. Right. And so, you know, at that point, they start to, they get close to you. Maybe they pull out a knife. They tell you, you know, you want to make it out of here. And they pressure you, like, scare you to the point. Yeah. That's terrible.

That seems like that's possible. Once again, it's probably a medium. Okay. My thought process is that the judge is going to say he's young, he's a jerk. But you can't, you know. don't you don't I can't give him more time because he's a jerk he is young he's stupid he made some mistakes he's arrogant I'm going to give him 20 years we'll see what happens with the politician one maybe the politician one they give him five years maybe it's 25 years but he's

been locked up for a while he may or may not go to a medium for a year he'll keep his head down he'll teach GED maybe he works in the kitchen you know he'll be at a low and he won't have really any problems at the low they'll think he yeah they'll be super excited to have mental low okay that's good for him he'll be a celebrity exciting so what do people do do to pass the time like what kind of entertain like i don't know do you watch movies do you i don't know what people do in prison yeah they have so they have multiple um TVs because the TVs are like babysitters you know like they can threaten to take them away from you and everybody's like no you know because you don't have like it's not like in california like you i think in california like

some prisons like you can have your own little tv in your cell it's not like that's not like that you know these are there's a big big TV room and they'll have like three or four TVs and everybody has earphones and then there's a couple smaller TV rooms and they haven't broken up like the black guys get like two or three TVs because the the majority of these guys probably 60 70% are black guys in a low in a medium it's more like 80%. So then you have the the Spanish guys have their own TV and then the white guys have their own TV. And so you know and as much as They love the, you know, prisons love to say, you know, they do everything in their power to make sure that things are desegregate, you know, there's no segregation, right? Right.

De segregated. They don't because the inmates do it themselves. There's nothing they can do. Yeah. Is Sam going to have to join a gang? No. Okay. No.

My wife. My wife here, she just snickered. that man is not going to fit it in any gang no you don't want him in the gang yeah no one is going to want him in the gang yeah you know what's that saying I want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member they they don't they don't want him as a member yeah so what's he going to do maybe he could do their books so do their books uh yeah he's he's he's he's probably you know unless he gets something unless i'm just completely wrong and he gets 75 years in which case

guy I can't imagine he could go they I can't imagine they could justify sending him to a to a pen but even then they put him in protective custody because the the listen it doesn't look good for the warden to allow someone to get hurt especially someone that high profile yeah the warden would be like I can't this guy's going to get killed on my watch I think what they do to pass time is they they sometimes they have a movie room where you can go and you can basically sign up to get DVDs on DVDs remember DVDs um i don't know they probably do still have DVDs there anyway and you you can watch movies you know you get to watch like one movie maybe maybe two movies a week if you schedule it right you can walk the rec yard you can work out you can join a softball game you can play you know all these things that sam's not going to do yeah that man does not work out he barely likes leaving that he doesn't even like going outside uh i would be good for him in jail It might be. Maybe.

He could, you know, he's going to have so many, he's going to be going through legal proceedings for forever. I mean, if he's, if he's smart, he would get a prison job of some kind and he would start doing people's legal work or something to pass a time. And it's a way to make money for inmates. Like some inmates just aren't going to do their legal work, but Sam's clearly a sharp guy. he would, he would, it'd take him a couple of years to really know how to file, uh, the documents and write up legal work. And what he'd do is he would just crush multiple people's chances of getting any relief at all while he destroys their cases, but he'd learn a lot. Now, granted, you have to do all your time now because he didn't really know what he's doing, but he could learn on your case.

You probably didn't have a chance anyway. So, and then he charged some of these guys charge, some guys will charge a couple hundred bucks. Some guys will charge. $3,500, you know, some guys, like I know guys that charge, they'll charge three, four thousand dollars in prison. That's insane. Yeah. They're also really good. Well, it passes the time. Yeah. You know, I, what I did was I wrote guys stories. Yeah, that's cool. So, you know, because I was just surrounded by these great stories. So that, that really helped me, you know, with my time. And he'll figure, if he doesn't figure that out, well, first of all, he'll read for two,

the first couple of years he'll probably read. He'll probably just like read books. He hates books, but. I'm serious? Yeah. But after a year or two, and once it sinks in, he's going to be there a while. Because it probably has it.

It's probably slowly sinking in now. He's still thinking, well, I'm going to get a couple years, and I've already done this much time. And if I do this and I do that, In his mind, he's probably still thinking, I can be out of here in a few years. Yeah, probably. You know, I always have these guys in the comment section when they talk about all the money that he donated to politicians. They're always saying, you know, oh, well, he donated so much money to politicians, he's not going to get any time.

But the truth is- I get a lot of comments like that. They've, they all took off the moment he got indicted. The moment he looked bad for him, they stopped answering his calls. Totally. If anything, I feel like, wouldn't that hurt him? I feel like now people, like, these politicians need to show that they're not corrupted. I feel like if anything, he's going to hurt him. Right, but, you know, you grow up and you think you know how things work.

And then you get into, you know, let's say for, like for me with lending. You know, once you get into the system, you start realizing like, oh, wow, like, this doesn't work at all. like people think it works. Like, in some ways, it's extremely laxed. And in other ways, it's like there's no way around this. You know, some people think it's almost like a handshake. And you know, I know a guy that knows a guy, but that's not what it is, you know. And people would say, you know, oh, well, you know, you want to walk in like in a nice suit and this and that.

I don't care what, I don't, I don't care if the person walks in and a, in a moo-moo and slippers and doesn't look like they've taken a shower in a week. I don't care. Do you have good credit in W-2s and pay stubs? Do you make enough money for the loan? Do you have a down payment? I'm getting you alone. Yeah.

I don't care if you have face tattoos. So, you know, there's just, and I think that's probably what happened. He probably donated a bunch of money. He was hoping to get some favorable, some favorable, what, policies and laws change that was going to help him continue his scam. It didn't. And then he thought, well, then he probably thought, well, it'll, still help me with my case and then his lawyers got involved and his lawyers are like oh

sam what are you doing not good none of that's going to work yeah but he probably thought it would so oh god he's not in a good position right now so so my god um what so my other question is so what are you doing on your your channel i mean for the past month i went to every single day of his trial, I was covering it. It's almost bittersweet because I'm like, oh, God, this was my whole life. It was almost my whole life for like a year because I don't actually like fully live anywhere. So I just do little sublets. And when I was interviewing Sam, I moved over to San Francisco so that I could continue interviewing him over his house arrest. And then I'm in New York for the trial. And now I'm like, oh, it's kind of a big existential moment where I'm like, I don't

know what to do from here. Because I didn't, I didn't set out with my YouTube channel to do anything specific and I've cared about Celsius because I had money in it and cared about FTX and Sam since I was talking to him but yeah now I'm a little bit I need to rethink everything now we'll see what about the next trial I do I'm planning on covering the next trial in March we'll see if it happens I'll definitely attend his little sentencing hearing but I don't know I feel like more people want me to like do more crypto fraud related things and I'm open to it but yeah it's only been like a couple weeks out of trial. So I'm still sort of thinking through what to do. If you have ideas, you can feel free to throw away. I mean, you know, the crypto thing, if that seemed to be your niche,

you know, with the channel, if that's what you think it is, then what about just interviewing other guys? Like, I mean, let's face it. You could interview, you know, someone like it. Maybe I don't know how, I don't know if Coffee Zill is going to, how much he's going to do, but he'd do at least one interview. So, you know, you do an interview with him. You do. You know, there's many, many scams, you know, related to crypto that you could go, you know, you could go through. There's, and not only scams, like I talked to a cyber, I've talked to actually a couple of cyber guys in the last couple weeks. And it was all related to, it was related to crypto parts of it. It was related to crypto scams, but it was the, the North Koreans state run, you know,

divisions in North Korea where they were they actually stole how much did they steal I'm going to say 300 million in Bitcoin now they didn't keep in mind you know because that you can only get it out through an exchange they were shifting it around and it's being followed obviously it's being tracked the problem was they ended up trying to launder it through a legitimate um a legitimate, oh, God, what I just said it, it was a, how do you get the money out? It's exchange. An exchange. What, God, I just went blank. So they went to a legitimate exchange, you know, because some are questionable. I only know this because this is what the guy told me. So he said, for some reason, they dumped almost all of it into a legitimate one.

And he was like, and I don't know why they did that. Yeah. Because what happened was it got dumped there. And before they could shift it to multiple bank accounts, they were contacted by the investigators that were on it. And these are private investigators. These aren't even the, this isn't even like the FBI or the government. And they were contacted by them and said, look, this is what's going on. This is the problem.

This is what's happening. We're asking you to please freeze the account. They froze it immediately. Wow. But these guys only made $40 million. Now, $40 million is a lot of money. but it was North Korea and this was this is something

that this is part of you know they they they love to throw the hole this is it's helping to fund their nuclear program you don't know where that money is going it's going into the coffer whatever the point is that was a super like that's something that that's also

well it's Bitcoin but it's also no yeah that's interesting yeah and there's more stories like this I need to find a new stories like that New fraudster to hang out with. And you've already got 40,000 subscribers. Yeah, it's been fun.

You already have kind of an audience. Like you could definitely do that. And then think about it. You could turn that into what's the next one that goes under. Maybe you go to that trial. Maybe you. Yeah. Yeah.

And I need to do something longer form with all my Sam interviews because I didn't post many of them and I didn't want to get subpoenaed by the DOJ. So that's what to do with all of that too. So I have a lot of thinking to do. but it was a fun little ride. That could have been cool if you got subpoenaed. I would be terrified and I'm like too poor. You didn't do anything wrong.

I know, but it's just terrifying. I also was like, would I have to testify against Sam and that'd be great. That's fucking terrifying. Maybe it would have been fun. I mean, I think the difference is if like if I was in your position, I'd never been through the system and dealt with, with, you know, the FBI and Secret Service and the U.S. attorneys and stuff, I would be terrified.

But being through the system, them like now I'd be like yeah of course that'd be like to me I'd be like publicity I'm going to get that's another 100,000 subscribers oh my god you haven't done anything wrong I you went and interviewed him what did you do this is true this is true maybe next time maybe I can get subpoena I hope not to if the DOJ is watching this I hope I don't get subpoenaed I don't get cool listen I've had guys that have read my articles that I've written on on on guys I've had FBI agents call me and say, hey, look, I read this article.

Here's what's going on. Did the guy ever say this? Do you know this? Do you know that? I'm like, yeah, I know this. Call this guy. Talk to this guy, you know. Oh, my God.

And then that ends up being more and more content for your channel. That's fun. That's fun. Maybe I did it the wrong way. Well, I mean, you're on, you're definitely on the right path now. It's been fun. It's been a fun little journey. Very unexpected.

Well, can you think of anything else? Tell me, is there anything else I didn't cover that we and talk about? I mean, I'm sure Tyler will tell me my booking agent will be like, you didn't mention this, you didn't mention that. Yeah, what did Tyler put it? He put a bunch of stuff in the email, but I didn't look at it too closely. Let's see. I haven't pulled it up. I read the whole thing, but he also asked me to ask stuff that I have no idea about. That's fine. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's like the whole thing is over now. So it's like, I guess it's all sort of out there.

I can't believe that he talked, like, he went on, like, his little media campaign after he was, you know, extradited back to the U.S., and was on house arrest, and he's going on all these shows, and what are you thinking? Shut up. And I think he's, I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if he does the same thing all over again, like, once he's able to start talking to people. His lawyers had to go nuts. I know.

Because in one of my interviews, I was asking what his lawyers thought about it. And he was just like, I told my lawyers to go fuck themselves. They don't know what they're talking about. God. He does think he's the smartest guy in the room and he thinks everyone else doesn't really know what they're doing. Well, they're going to, they're going to teach him a lesson. And what's even worse is that going to prison with that attitude is just going to make it that much worse. Like, nobody wants to hear you complain.

Nobody wants to hear you to say, I'm innocent, I shouldn't be here. Nobody wants to hear that. Yeah. And that's not going to do you any good. Like your best bet is to go to prison, realize you should be there, and work on just the person you are. try and be a decent person and pass your time and get out and try and turn it in something. Yeah. I hope he does.

I remember you told me he sees something like 10 to 20 years in prison as the same as life in prison. And I'm like, that's not the same. Yeah. First of all, if he programs, he could be out in about 14 years. What do you mean? Programs like? So remember I said as soon as you go in, they calculate your good time. So if he gets 20 years, he's looking at 17 years.

Right off the rip, you just went from 20 to 17. That's if you're good behavior, you have to be a real screw up to lose good time. Okay. And even then, the way that you lose it is like they'll take away 10 days, 20 days. Like if you stab somebody, you might get, you know, 54 days taken away. Like, it's difficult. He won't stab any months. No, no.

But, so let's assume he's going to be a decent, you know, person. He may try and get a cell phone or something. know, but even then, it's the max I think they can give you take away is like 50 days or something. Okay, so assuming he's good with the 17 years, so you got 17 years, if he programs, he can get up to, I forget how many days, it's like, it ends up being, it's a chunk of time. I don't want to say 15 days a month. It's like 12 days a month or something. So if he programs, which means every quarter, he takes at least one program or he teaches a class. These are called ACE courses that are called adult continuing education courses. So if he teaches one or takes one, he gets programming. You also get programming if you just have a job.

So if you and you can get a job doing anything, you could sweep up the compound. You can work in the kitchen, washing dishes. You can, you know, because let's face it, there's nothing on the compound that is going to work. There's no jobs for someone like him. So maybe he can teach GED or do something silly like work in the rec yard passing out equipment. But regardless, you get you get time off. But the maximum you can get is something like 12 days or 11 days a month, something along those lines. So it ends up being with good time and programming, 20 years ends up being 14 years.

You can also get a year off for the drug program. So if he takes a drug program and says, I have an issue with drugs. If he's smart when he does what's called his pre-sentence report. So before he goes to sentencing, the, the department of, sorry, the U.S. Attorney's Office. I know the DOJ. The DOJ is going to send a probation officer to interview him. They're going to interview him. And one of the things they're going to ask about is, you know, his family, his upbringing, all that.

One of the things they're going to ask him about is, do you have a drug problem? Have you ever had problems with drugs? He needs to say yes, no matter what. Oh, of course I do. I've hooked on this, I'm this, I'm taking this, I'm taking that. Because then they'll, then they will recommend to the judge that he gets, that he should take the, what's called the ARDAP program, the residential drug program, residential drug program, right?

Yeah, residential drug program. So, so he'll, they'll say you should take, he should take that. But if you pass it, it's a nine-month program, and if you pass it, you get a year off. Oh, that's good. So now he's down to 13 years. He can get up to, you can actually get up to like a year or two now, but no halfway, in a halfway house. But there's no way he's getting two years and a halfway house. Because they say like you can.

The problem is he can't because halfway houses are so full. But let's say he gets a year off. to now he's down in like 12 years. He's already done six months in jail, let's say. Yeah. So, you know, they're going to put him on a bus, maybe a plane. They're going to fly him. Maybe they'll put him someplace local, probably so that he can be close to his lawyers and his family.

They could also be upset with him and they could fly him all the way to Miami and he'll be in Miami. Like they could be, they could get upset with him and say, oh, you know what, fly you out to, you know, Texas. But either way, it's 12 years. And right now, I can tell you right now, 12 years is an eternity to him. Yes. But he's at the beginning, you know? And in two or three years, you lower your expectations of life. And that sounds horrible.

But it's really not. It's not horrible. It's, you know, he'll, after two or three years in his expectations of life have been lowered on what he wants out of life. he will find comfort in having a good conversation, a good book, talking to your mom on the phone, having, having, you know, they've got fried chicken tonight. I love fried chicken. You know, like they're, even though for the most part, the food's not great. But periodically, he's vegan. He's vegan, so he's in the struggle. That's going to be out. That's, that's going to be over. No,

that you can have, you can be vegan, but he's probably going to realize, like, I just, I'm just, I'm just going to Oh, apparently he spent the first few months in jail only eating bread and water. And he lost a lot of weight. He used to be a little bit tubby. And he was really, he looked almost gone during trial. Maybe he'll stick with it. Maybe. But I mean, I think after a few years, he'll realize I can do this.

Like, you know. That's what most people feel after a few years of prison? Or do some people just never come to terms with it? I mean, obviously there's some people that never come to terms. I knew guys that, and honestly, I knew a guy named Jason Weeks. Jason Weeks, if you said, you know, Jason, how long been locked up? He'd say 12,214 days. Counting none?

And 11 hours. I mean, it was like, you know, and he didn't say it like it was funny. He was serious. He was angry. He was bitter. And Jason Weeks made his own time really hard. Yeah. And nobody really wanted to hang out with him.

Like he was extreme. Listen, and super bright guy. I mean, I'm not saying he's not. He's, he just. There's a bright guy that, you know, just just made his time harder than it needed to be and was not someone that you wanted to hang out with. Like, I would hang out with him because he was smart, but I'd hang out with him for 20 minutes. And after 20 minutes, I'd be like, this is why we don't hang out. That's right.

I have friends like that. Yeah. I'll see you around. And I'd leave. And then two weeks later, I'd see him and I'd go talk to him for 20 minutes. I'd be like, oh. Again. Every time.

You always get me. So that's, it's just not smart. It's not smart to be playing the whole time. Yeah. The big problem, too, is he's probably going to have a couple, two, three years of appeals. Oh. That doesn't really help him. Yeah.

For, I'm saying mentally, he's going to keep thinking, I'm going to win. I could get out. They're going to come to me. They're going to offer me something. They're going to give me this. They're going to give me that. They're going to. I feel like he will get.

He's like an overly optimistic guy. Like, I remember when I. I was asking him in house arrest. I was like, what do you think your odds are of getting out of this got free? And he was like, there were moments where he said, uh, maybe like a little under 50% chance. And I was like, man, that is so not like, even just knowing the conviction rate in like, you just knowing conviction rate. I'm like, that's just statistically unlikely. Like, even if I thought you were innocent, which I don't. If he was, if he was innocent, he's got about an 80% chance of being found guilty. Exactly. Exactly. So I just feel like Sam,

during these appeals, I imagine him being overly optimistic and being like, maybe this is the time I'm going to get out of this. And actually, the same thing happened when he was thrown in MDC. I think his lawyers did, up until the date of his trial, like, continually try to get him out. And I feel like he

probably clung on to that hope of potentially getting out of jail. And I assume it'll be the same in prison. So that's not great for his mental state perspective. Oh, man. He needs to try and get a he needs to join a softball team

and try and get a two-man cell as soon as possible because he's going to be there a while. Uh-huh. Okay. I know he plays paddleball. Are there any games? The guys are he loves games. Are there games?

Are you serious? There are, these guys are professional game players. There's everything from risk to monopoly. They've got shuffleboard. They have volleyball courts. They have racquetball courts. They have handball.

softball, what else? That's good. Soccer. They have a massive, massive wreckyard. You have to understand the, if you keep these guys entertained, we need, we can get less staff. You know, we don't need as many people to watch them to control them. Right.

Give them soccer balls. Give them this. Pool tables. Do you want to learn how to do leather craft? Do you want to learn how to paint? That makes sense. That's good. Okay, that's something for him to do. Okay. Because, yeah, he once sent me his Amazon purchase history. And like, like, only he was buying a lot of board games. So if they have board games, I'm sure he'll be. And, but he likes video games. Do they have video games in prison? No? Well, I mean, the problem in federal prison, as far as I, I, when I was there, the answer is no. But since I left, like when I got there, they, they came out with MP3 players.

And, yeah, my wife just says he could get a cell phone. I said that earlier. I said he'll probably get a cell phone, which is contraband. He'll get in trouble if you get that. But so let's say maybe he gets a cell phone. Or he could, you know, they have like pads now, right? Like iPads now, but they're not iPads. You know, like you say that.

I say that. It's not an iPad. But it's their version of an iPad. Like the prison gives them these? Or do you mean like as contraband he could get his hands? No, no, no. He can get one like the prison gives it to you. Oh, that's nice.

But I don't really know necessarily what like I think you might be able to watch. I know in county jails and stuff they do. And I know they were introducing them into federal prisons, but it depends on what federal prison. You know, I just don't know. And even then, I'm not sure what they're going, what they will, are they going to have games on it? Are they going to have? Listen, there were guys in federal prison. when I was locked up, real quick, I ended up going through a private prison when I was being moved when I first got locked up.

And they were housing California inmates in Oklahoma, which, what, not Oklahoma? Mississippi, I forget. But it was a private prison and there was a wing where they had California prisoners. These guys had video games. They're wearing their own. They're wearing sweatsuits. They're watching TV. Like we would walk by and you can see them.

There's a huge window as you're walking by. the hall and guys are looking in there like this is insane it's pretty nice why would you leave like this is what so i i don't but you know it's pretty strict in federal prison he's he's going to have but like i said once he realizes hey my appeals are out i'm probably going to be doing all this time and he'll always be doing some kind of an appeal and he'll always have that kind of hope but at some point you're like yeah i hope it works out but i'm probably going to do the next 10 years in prison yeah he'll probably be in a better frame of mind that makes sense that makes sense which it it sucks but you know well it makes sense like it makes sense to not have that like constant hope over your head

but the like he told me that the main thing he would miss his internet so i mean i guess sounds like that's not going to happen for it no i don't something would have to change well oh and just last question i remember someone telling me that he could end up in a prison anywhere in the u.s is That true? Do you know how that works? Absolutely. I didn't know. I thought that like I figured it would be in New York, but no. I don't know.

I have, I can tell you, I know multiple guys that were lived in California, all their families was in California. They were, they were found, they were indicted in California, tried or pled guilty in California, and were in the same prison I was in in Florida. Oh, interesting. Oh, and I mean, that happens all the time. all the time people are five states away 10 you know they they they'll tell you their policy is to keep you within is it 200 miles 300 miles yeah they they try and keep you as close but you know let's face it they can't do that

close to family but close to where your your residence is yes or you know or yeah your family like but they can't do that like some some you know some states have lots of prisons in them and then some states have one or two you know so how do you do that if you got five prisons in one state and one and another one i mean you can't and they just chose she's kind of randomly just based on where there's occupier like where there's availability that it's partly that and it's partly are you close to your relatives or but and your security level that's another thing that my wife was just saying she was that you know that let's face it if they have very few pins yeah so if you're from you know if you're from iowa you know, and you can't go to maybe you can. And also, where were your co-defendants? Lots of guys have

separate, what they call separaties on them. So you testified against me or you cooperated against me. And now we have a separatize. So they ship me to your prison and they put me in the shoe because they go, oh, wait a minute, one of your co-defendants is here. You can't stay here. And then they ship you to, imagine if you have a large case. And then they ship you to another prison. You would think they know that your co-defendants are here, here and here. But they don't. They ship you there. You sit in the shoe while they figure it out and they go, oh, yeah, we can't send you here either. Interesting.

Or they'll ship you across. Let's say you have to go to ARDAP, the drug program. Maybe there's no ARDAP at your, at your, the low security prison or the medium or whatever you're at. There is none. So we're going to move you to California or we're going to move you to Texas. Or we're going to move you and you're like, that's five states away from where I live. So it could just be anywhere. That's interesting.

did know that but but like i said i think they'll probably keep him close they'll probably make an extra effort to keep him close to home first of all he still got trials he still has lawyers he still has family you can pay you can pay former bop staff members it's nothing it's like 1500 or 2 500 to make a plea to i forget the name of the place basically they write up a whole thing where they they basically make a plea to keep you and why they should keep you you at this prison. His lawyers are going to make those calls. The judge is going to recommend he stay close to home. And they'll probably pay someone to make that effort. And the probation officer is going to also say that there's a good chance. Let's face it, he's not some gangbanger from the

projects. He's got a bunch of people on his side rooting for him that hold, that carry, you know, a lot of weight. Okay. So likely around California, that's where his family is. Okay. That's good to know. And then just other quick question. So obviously right now he'll be interviewed for the PSR, the pre-sentence report. And once he does get sentenced, what is the process from there? Like, they don't immediately just ship into prison, do they? Or like, what's the timeline look like? So, well, I think the problem with him is, you know, and I did another interview and I didn't realize he had another trial.

And I was like, oh, he'll be gone in two weeks. He probably would be. Unless it was, it would have to be around like the holidays if it cost to take. And even then it'd only be let me be another week. The problem is he has another trial. Right. So no, they're going to probably transfer him or keep him in the U.S. Marshall's holdover or maybe the BOP.

I don't know how that's going to work with another trial, but he's not going to go anywhere if he's got another trial. They're just going to keep him right there. Yeah. And then once he's sentenced and then the sentence comes out like, do they just, it's two weeks usually, like until he gets into prison? Within a week or two, he may end up having to go to some kind of a processing center like Oklahoma City. And, you know, so he might be shipped to Oklahoma City and they kind of do a review or something.

I mean, the worst case scenario, he's at the prison he's going to be at within three or four weeks maximum, maximum. Didn't know any of these things. This is as much me interviewing you as you. Hey, I'm, you know, like you're asking me questions. The Oklahoma City prison or holdover, they call like the holdover, it's connected to, to an airport. So they fly you in on Conair, and it's a regular plane. It's not like the movie. They fly you in and, you know, the, whatever that thing is comes in and it, and it hooks up to the plane and you leave that, you walk through that hallway into the prison.

and there it is it's like something out of it's it's an orwellian nightmare it's you know you're all shackled together chain way and you're you're all you know your arms are you know at your waist you got waist chains on you're all your legs are shackled there's a there's a chain going from each in and then you walk in and then the the guards you know you stand there's like probably five or six guards in a row and you walk up onto this point. platform and then they take the chains off you and then that you immediately go into a room that's covered with metal all the way around the room all the way up the walls it's diamond plated and you go in this room and you stand there and you're you might be in there for three

or four hours you can't sit down there's too many they pack you in pack you in it's it's it's absolutely it's something you've never it's like being in a movie but it's you know, obviously it's not. And you do, it's this surreal feeling like, I can't believe this happening. This is, I can't believe this is happening. I mean, oh my God. That's fine. Oh, my God. That's crazy. You have good stories. Yeah. I was going to say, then they give you your room and you'll be there for whatever, five days, 10 days, 15 days. And then they're going to send you to a prison. You're going to be put on a couple of, a couple of buses and you might just stop at a prison at another jail or a holdover for a day you'll sleep there at night your next morning they cuff you up again

put you on a bus for another five hours they do it again and but within a few days you listen he's never going to have been through anything this horrible in his entire life but definitely not he had a pretty charmed life yeah i grew up on in stanford and just like had a good life but he'll listen he'll have a new appreciation for you know i i i have a story that where i'll tell you. And then we can, you know, I'll let you go. No worries. The, my, the story is I, when I was locked up in, in the U.S. Marshals hold, basically like a county jail. I was waiting to be sentenced. And I was talking this guy who just done, God, he done, whatever. I'm not, whatever. It was like 10 or 12 years in federal prison. I think he still had a few more years to do in the state. And I was just like,

man, this is, this is so, you know, I was just like, I can't believe this is happening. And he said, he said, I know, Cox, I know, I understand you're freaking out. Listen, he is there is going to be a time. And it's going to be a few years from now. But there will be a time. He said, you're going to go to prison and there will be a time. He said, when you will be sitting around. And he, by the way, he was telling me a story that somebody had told him.

He said, you will be sitting around and you will be laughing and joking and doing. something and you are going to stop and there will be a moment when you will realize like wow this is great these are great guys i'm having a good time this is great what a great moment and you've had those on the outside you have those sometimes with your friends right but you'll when you're locked up and you have that moment he said you're going to think there's no place i'd rather be And I went, you're out of your fucking mind, bro. That's never going to happen. Probably three years later, I was playing risk with a bunch of guys.

Probably four or five guys. This guy's invading this country. This guy had an agreement not to invade that country. He rolls the dice. He invades it. Y'all can't believe you. We had an agreement. You.

He's like, oh, bro, what am I supposed to do? You know, I got to take Czechoslovakia, you know, and we're like, we're laughing. There are people bringing us sodas. Like, they have guys that will walk around and sell sodas and they're bringing a food. And somebody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and it's ice cold and you're walking. And you're laughing. And I remember I was laughing so hard.

And I remember looking around at these guys and thinking, this is great. Like, this is great. These guys, these are great guys. And it hit me. I was like, oh, my God. right oh my god because that guy told me about his moment yeah his moment was you know they were standing around a burn barrel talking and shooting the shit one day and he said i had that moment he said and you'll realize i get it's gonna be okay i can do this and i and it was and i was at the low

security prison at that point it was probably i'd been there a year i've been locked up four or five years at that point and i was like this is gonna be okay so he'll you know if he's lucky he gets to that point. Yes. Because by the time I left the last three or four years that I was, you know, getting toward leaving prison, I was honestly genuinely okay. Like I, I wanted to leave. You want to leave. You want to leave. You still want to live your life on the outside. You know it's better. Yeah. But you're, you're okay. Wow. That was a profound story. What a good. I can't. I, my, my wife is going, tell me, tell her, I can't all choke. up um she said tell her how when you left prison so i'm sorry that's okay i'm so mad at you right now

okay so when i left prison you know i had i i was we were driving away and um i remember looking at the prison like i'd never seen it from the outside right yeah and i remember looking at the prison and my brother said man i'll bet you're glad to uh i'm you know bet you're glad to be leaving that place something like along those lines and i just started crying and he was like you know like i'm i know you're glad to be leaving there but it wasn't that i was leaving it was that you know my my best friends were there and i knew how much i was going to miss them you know you have It's called, you know, it's called, you know, survival or guilt. Yeah.

And I just remember being so upset and sad because I was leaving these guys that I just loved. Yeah. And, listen, going into prison didn't really feel that way. Yeah. About it, about really anybody. Like, I had a girlfriend that I was in love with at the time, but by the time I actually went into the prison, that was over. Yeah. And there were certainly no friends or anything that I, I mean.

miss but you know he he will hopefully he has that moment because god knows this guy's got a lot to figure out in his life because he is a damaged like if i'm a damaged damaged damage damage soul he's definitely you know at least i got to at least i was lucky enough to know i should have been in prison that i really made a series of horrible horrendous mistakes in my life and i'd harm a lot of people yeah He hasn't come to that realization. God, I hope he does. Or he's going to,

he's going to do some really, really hard time mentally. Yeah. I'm so mad at my wife right now. No, that was a really good story. And it was like also like a very good end because I'm like, I had chills.

It was good. I hope that. I hope that for Sam. And like anyone who's serving that long a sentence, like I hope so. Oh my God. that was good Hey if you guys watch the video

I really do appreciate it If you enjoyed it Please subscribe to my channel Hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this Leave me a comment in the comment section Also we are going to leave Tiffany's Her all of her social media links In the description box

I'm also going to leave her YouTube channel Please go to her YouTube channel If you like this content and subscribe And please consider joining my Patreon It really does help me out Thank you see you Thank you.