Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - NYPD Gangster Cop Mike Dowd Reveals the Truth | Matt Cox TRUE CRIME PODCAST

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

NYPD Gangster Cop Mike Dowd Reveals the Truth | Matt Cox TRUE CRIME PODCAST

I think photos is a different approach. I'm going to get mine. Yeah. I'm going to get my. Whatever it is. If it's an extra sweater, you know, if it's a fucking Nike hat, whatever the fuck it is,

I'm going to get something for me out of this because it appears that there's more to this than just driving to work and keeping the peace. Hey, Matt Cox, and I'm going to be interviewing Mike Dowd, and Mike Dowd is a former New York City police officer. 75th precinct. I just watched a documentary on them. It's great documentary. We're going to put the link for the documentary.

It's on YouTube so we can do a little thing right here, that little thing. And they can watch the documentary. And we're going to go over Mike's story. And that's it. Appreciate it. So yeah. So I'm happy to be here. My name is Mike Dowd. If you've seen the 75 documentary, you'll know a little bit about the story. And if you don't, check out the documentary. It's an interesting story about the 1980s, basically, the New York City Police Department, the corruption during the crack epidemic. that hit New York City. Right. Yeah. It was a great documentary. It's a great story. But anyway, so let's just start. So I'm just going to go with what struck me about the whole story in general is that you were

what? Like, like, 19 or 20 or something? Well, I was 21 in like a week when I became a New York City cop. Right. But you went, what did you do? You went to the why? Police Academy. Yeah, but why did you always want to be a police officer?

No. No, it's just. So I come from a long line of civil servants. My father was a New York City firefighter. My grandfather was a New York City bus driver. My great-grandfather was a New York City cop for a week. So back in the day when he said, men sleep at night. So he refused to do a midnight shift.

So yeah, but so anyway, so the Irish civil servant underbelly of New York City, that was New York City in the probably from the 40s on up until now. You know, so I wouldn't say currently because it's more like Hispanic and African-American. But so every ethnic group works their way through, and usually it's the city jobs that the politicians control and they end up being in whatever ethnicity is in the city at the time. Right. It becomes politically in charge and then politically in charge. Some patronage takes place.

And then for the years, the Irish ran the police department in New York City. Right. Which had nothing to do with the civil service hiring exams. It's just that it was the place to go for work. Right. And so you, so you, so we went to the police academy in your 20s and then you're 21 years old. Right. You get hired right away.

Right. You ended up in one of the worst dangerous. So I ended up in the police academy. And so I took the job because I needed to, I wanted to get laid. I wanted to get married. Of course. I needed to have a job. Your priorities right.

Yeah. So, yeah. my penis was my priority, pretty much still is. And so I needed to get a job. And in order to get married back then, you needed to get a job. I don't know about today, but back then you needed to have a job.

And so having a police job was a career that would at least give you some stability if you, of course, if you treated it that way. And so I took the job. And then, of course, immediately after I took the job, the girl I was dating and engaged to said, I'm not marrying a police officer. That's crazy.

So I found myself basically after the police academy, semi-broken up single, crying and bitching and moaned that why don't you want to be with me type of thing. Right. Which in the end, she was probably right the whole time. She made the right call. She made the right call, but I refused to accept that.

Right. Because of my hardheaded 20% stud muffin and 80% muffin of something going through me. So then you ended up, So you met your wife at the time or a few years later? No, so I was dating her, went through the academy, we broke up, we got back together, broke up, she got pregnant, we got back together, and got married. So you started at the police at the police academy. Right, but I mean, then you were, you went to the 75th precinct, which is one of the most dangerous.

So I ended up in Queens first as a rookie. So I cut my teeth as a rookie in Queens, walking their streets under, if anyone's familiar with Roosevelt Avenue, under the L, Junction Boulevard. It was back then it was called Little Columbia because that was where the Colombians settled in and did all their cocaine distributions from. It was Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, Corona, Queens. And that's when all the airports in New York were used as the main transport hubs

for the cocaine from Columbia. So it was insane. Right. But that was high end because the Colombians were high end. They weren't street dealers. There were major, massive movers of cocaine. So I worked in a really pretty nice precinct, which is the 110 in Corona, Jackson Heights, Elmhurst, as a rookie.

And then I learned a little bit about what was going on, but you didn't see street-level activity because it was the guys that were moving tonnage. Right, right, right. And then after about a year or so, that time, I ended up getting transferred to the 7-5, and I thought I went to fucking hell. I was like, oh, my God, what the fuck is this?

Well, I saw that at that time, New York City was like the, what was it, like 35, 3,600? people were being murdered every year so so everybody gets that number confused but it was about 2,000 people were murdered a year but probably on the on the upward side of 20 000 a shot for about every one person that dies eight to 10 get shot so you can imagine yeah so you can you got shot a little yeah yeah it's just no big deal you just get shot i was in the guy somebody got stabbed in the yard and i said somebody got killed in the yard and he goes now he just got stabbed up a little bit yeah that's how life That was life.

So, anyway, so here it was, I was a Long Island kid, right? I was born in Brooklyn, but raised on Long Island, where it was pretty much peachy keen, you know, everything was okay. I mean, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood, so there was no, like, black, white, animosity, or hatred, or, you know, we played sports, so we interacted well. But when you're getting to the ghetto and you really see what life's about, like, for those people in the ghetto, not ethnic, but the people in the ghetto. I mean, my best friends were Hispanic and black when I was a kid.

but when you see how they're in they live in the ghetto life it's like oh my god this is a fucking different world right like those people that are ethnic in my neighborhood wouldn't fucking survive in this they'd be like that's why that's why they're there out by me you know right so it was just insane and but but i guess the insanity was the um complete you know you just said you got stand up in the yard yeah yeah he got shot he got shot he said all right you know he took eight shots but he's good he's yeah I mean, I came across people, and it's insane. Like this, one guy was shot like nine times,

and so I put the 95 tag on his toe. Yeah, I put the 95 tag on his toe, and a week later, I'm talking to his wife at the precinct, because the precinct was a good place to use the phone. What is the 95, but what does that mean? I'll get to it. Okay. So I put this 95, so the guy, I'm talking to this woman,

I said, I'm really sorry to hear about your husband, you know. what else am I going to say I passed her she noticed me I noticed her you know and a little Coochie mama on the phone half her belly hanging out you know it's the summer

you know figure she's looking to get laid at the precinct whatever you know that's a good place to get laid right there's 450 cops as looking 425 men you know anyway so she's at the phone on the pay phone of the precinct

making a phone call and and so we pass glances and I am really sorry to hear about your husband and she goes what do you mean I go, well, he got shot nine fucking times I put the 95 tag The DOA, I put the DOA tag on his toe In the hospital

And I've never done that before by the way I was not always I wasn't there like at the cease time But I put the 95 tag on his toe Because I was busy I had some things to do And I figured by the time this is over I don't want to come back and have to do it

Turned out He says he's over there on the phone Making a phone call Here's a guy who was shot nine times He looked this here See I put this nice white t-shirt on maybe for effect today because he looked like this shirt that's how white this man was like going into the oar i put the 95 tag on his fucking toe and turned out he wasn't dead he was standing

he was on the outside phone she was on the inside phone in the precinct he was on the outside phone at the precinct so yeah that's i mean that that was that was like all right so that's not normal but that's but that's normal do you know what i mean it's no big deal oh okay he made it oh sorry next yeah so but it was it was it was thrilling it was a it was a exciting to go to work. Yeah. So you think about it, like, you know, we're adrenaline junkies in somewhere or another way. We seek the bizarre or we just want to see crazy stuff in life.

And so when you're in New York City cop back in that day, like every day was like a surprise, but fun. Right, right, right. It's exciting, you know, what's going to happen today? And like, you never really worried about yourself. Right. In the beginning, you know. Right, right. Well, I, the first, the first realization that this is real and nothing really matters.

Right. Well, you had said it felt like, oh, no, no, that was your partner. It felt surreal. And everybody kept saying throughout the whole documentary, they keep saying, you know, that you never seemed, they were like, Mike never seemed scared. Like, he was never worried about any of this stuff. Like, to him, it was not a big deal. Like, and even, you know, you had mentioned, like, you know, well, just the whole thing. Like, you, like, nobody was out to get you, except for that one time.

Right. You didn't feel like you were in danger. Like, you were. No. It's, yeah, like Teflan Don, right? John Gotti went to trial and he just go, he'd be smoking a cigar at the end of the afternoon. And it just became, you know, I was one of seven kids. I was a survivor in that realm, you know what I mean?

I learned how to survive. I learned how to get my food and how to work my way through that. So it always seemed like I'd always find a way. No matter what problem I was in, you know, some of the stories that you shared with me about your stuff, you always found a way to make it work or to come out okay. Like, no matter how bad things are, it's going to be okay. Yeah, you did, this is just an obstacle. I have to get around.

How am I? Right. Most people, I just find that most people in life, they hit an obstacle. Right. That's it. That's it. Right. They surrender and they turn around.

Right. It's like, this is just something. I wish I did. Right. Because the first obstacle, I mean, I had signs and I had warnings and I had, you know, people confront me at times. And, I mean, from my mother, who was like the most dangerous confrontation. Right.

Your mother confronts you, you know, your wife or, you know, or a family. member or I even remember before I got arrested my father said to me you know one of my friends in the Suffolk County Police Department a family friend a close family friend like cousinish said that your name was dropped around a little bit and wanted to make sure that you were on the you know that you were on the up and up you know of course what I'm going to say to my dad yeah dad you're right I have a severe problem facing them you know what would have you know you're going to tell your father yeah you're right that I'm robbing everybody in Brooklyn and I'm selling cocaine on Long Island.

I mean, just, I have a hard time transitioning from being the charmed son with the four homes, condominium on the ocean, the brand new Corvette, the beautiful wife, the ex-girlfriend. You know, it's just, it's hard to go, yeah, I am doing something wrong. You mean you figure it out? You're not even a detective and you figured this out. Well, I, I, so when was, just to, when was the first time you actually did something that you knew you were crossing the line. You know, I always talk about this time when I took money when I, he's basically told

a kid that I didn't want to, I didn't want to give him summonses because I don't give a fuck about summons. Right. I don't gain on a summons. Right. So, and it's not that, I mean, I'm not supposed to gain. It's a police, you know, it's a civil service position. You're supposed to serve the public.

But there comes a point where you begin to get frustrated. In any job, you can get frustrated. But as a police officer, you're supposed to maintain your decorum and continue on like a true blue trooper. But I guess sometimes when the humanity comes in, you go, you know, I'm fucking, I could use a good meal. You know, I'm not that I'm starving. I never starve.

But you're living off a 600 bucks a week. No, 600 every two weeks. Every two weeks? Yeah, but he's misled by that. I was claiming 300 a week. In fact, in the academy, I was clearing $205 a week. And then, you know, you get a little bit of raise, you get a little bit of raise.

I was clearing $300. like at one point three hundred and three dollars a week into seven five you know but this was this was 83 84 yeah this is like 40 years ago but even then oh it was that's just that's not money it was paltry you're you're you're trying to it's like yeah i would have i would have at the end of at the and i didn't have any bills by the way i live with my parents right so you're you couldn't you can't live by yourself you're a young rookie cop you're living with your parents i'm talking about that that ever in the early part right and you know so maybe i'm banking i'm giving them 50 bucks a week and I'm banking 200 right because I want to save it from get a house so I can get

married that's why I took this job right and and and and you see like it's really not going to it's not going that well you know the savings is not really mounting up pretty quickly for a guy who's living home and having reduced bills which you know I was very financially very responsible throughout my whole life anyway so a county major in college so yeah so very good and uh they're pretty good at it um so I realized that the money was just not adding up. And so when you pull somebody over and they're like, fucking, let's say they're 17.

Right. And first of all, and they don't even have a license. They don't even have a registration. They don't even have license plates on the fucking car. Right. And yet when you pull them over, they got a stack of hundreds in there.

Back then it was fanny packs. Yeah. You know, those fanny packs, the leather pouches and shit. Did you have one? No, I didn't have one. I knew people. You knew people. Yeah, so, I mean, it's the stacked with hundreds, you know.

Like, what the fuck? You know, I got six bucks, you know, and it's got to last me, it's Tuesday. It's got to last me to Thursday at 4 o'clock when the checks roll in, you know. So, I mean, you don't have to feel bad for a guy, but that's what, it is what it is. So I'm like, fuck, where are you from? Puerto Rico. The guy's not even a fucking, like, of course, he's a citizen, but he's not, he just got him in Puerto Rico last week. He bought a car, you know, Corvette.

Yeah, he bought himself a Corvette and he's got a stack of hundreds in his wallet and in his pouch. So I could use a fucking nice meal. You know, I'm going to tell him, I want your money. I didn't know how to make that transition. You know, you got $1,800 worth of summons this year. Plus, I've got to take your car.

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to learn more toll pay for storage you know if you got me a good fucking lunch and a good one I mean like a lot to lunch you know then we can this will go away right so it so that's like the main that was the first time that I did it with intention right there are other moments where I let things go or saw things I didn't I didn't care about you know like maybe it was some drugs somewhere you know never never to my benefit right right never to my benefit you know just like maybe it was

laziness right I didn't give a fuck you know whatever I've witnessed things but in this case it was like I took an aggressive approach to try and get something yeah and and like we discussed previously it felt like I was nervous I was I thought it's being set up right you know because like it was just perfect I think I had no papers no license the plates no they're nonexistent and then after we got the money and we drove around like for a while like no one pulled us over or anything like whoop whoop internal affairs what you doing it was like yeah I can do this like I can do that yeah and and And that was on the back.

And I always forget to tell the story. That was on the back of an incident with me and two other police officers. So I'll just make the short of it. I make a car stop. Some guy blows a stop sign. I pull him over. I'm up on Jamaica Avenue by the Highland Park

in the borderline between Brooklyn and Queens. And I got this car stopped. And all of a sudden, I looked behind me just fucking flashing little, red lights from a fucking police city police car and I'm going oh this must be so-and-so

coming to join us like right checked on us yeah back up for no reason but still back up yeah yeah yeah I mean whatever that's cool what are you doing

my excuse me my job McGregor whatever fuck his name was I don't what Terry McGregor was a guy's name the other guy ended up losing his job anyway

he goes what are you doing? What do you mean what am I doing? Why do you ask me what am I doing? He goes, I made a car stop He goes, in my sector So I go Well

I knew that was A little touchy thing And I'm like Well, we pulled them over here But we followed him from my sector Let's say You know, he followed him three blocks And pulled them over

This is the best place We can pull the guy over Yeah well Don't be making any car stops In our sector said all right he goes and make sure you stay away from our our bodegas and our fucking uh spots right i mean obviously that's that's something's something's odd about that their territory when all of it falls within the precinct yeah it's in the precinct i you know i can drive by here all day

long but you know he don't want me doing any doing anything in his sector right so he's what charging he's charging uh protection money to people you're not positive but some Something's not right. Something's not right. So, so, you know, later we talked about it, my partner and I at the time, Sal, was a different partner than Kenny. And I said something like,

I get that you don't want me eating at some of your spots because you get eat on the, if you're eating on the arm, you don't want to hurt. Right, right, right. The other guy coming in saying, listen, I can't give 15 guys free meals in a day. Right. So that I'm aware of, you know.

But to make a car stop, like, is there something, Am I missing something here? So like the next day or two, I see this car, I pull it over, and I said, you know, maybe this is what it's about. I gave it a shot, I got paid. And it was a different approach. From that day forward, it was all like, and I wasn't, I was around about two years.

From that day forward, it was just a different approach. I'm going to get mine. Yeah. I'm going to get my, whatever it is. If it's an extra sweater, you know, if it's a fucking Nike hat, whatever the fuck it is, I'm going to get something for me out of this because it appears that there's more to this

than just driving to work and keeping the peace and going home and getting the paycheck. But you're still conducting police business. It's just that if something comes across, you're not out at that point. I know later, but at that point it seemed to me like you weren't seeking it out. Like if it's fell in my lap, you're an opportunist. If I come in on a bus and this and that and there's a stack sitting here. So that's the next thing. ends up happening. I ended up on the homicide scene with this guy, Sal, and we were still, and so

I go into this homicide, we first response, I can't even open the door because the body's, body's blocking the door, you know, the guy was hitting the head and he was fucking laying by the, I can't even open the door, finally I opened the door, I get inside, and, and I see, it's a marijuana, back then they had tray bag stores. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Brooklyn's setup, but, like every, it was a bunch of dummy candy stores, and they were all selling nickel bags. Like today, they're starting to sell pot everywhere, whatever. They've already got the setup, you know, 40 years ago in Brooklyn.

Right. They had these paper plates in the window with, you know, candy signs. Candy, you know, whatever. It was a fucking dope spot for marijuana. Pushed the door open. We had to move the body. The guy was basically dead on the floor and the block of the door. The guy got shot in his spot.

So the door was held closed by the body. We couldn't even get inside. So eventually we push our way in. And so it's a funny scene. It's a scene of where. inside there's a bunch of funny so yeah it was funny see what's so funny is I have a six sense of humor like to me that is funny yeah but people are like it in because the guy's blind oh yeah I hate that yeah he's blocking the door can you get up so

anyway in this bags of marijuana like like clearly a huge amount of marijuana like pounds and come to find it later on there was over four or five pounds which is quite you know it's a substantial amount yeah and it looks large you know pound of marijuana is a lot you know and so anyway so he has this and he's got his nickel trade bags set up and he's got cash well and lots of cash so I'm like this is you know I'm excited and then out comes this guy from nowhere and he's oh my God he starts blowing on his friends giving him CPR mouth-to-mouth the guy's dead and you know and then so the odd thing is I'm trying to put this together like what's going

on here because you don't want to stop someone from giving someone CPR. What the fuck? Let him do it. And then he takes, looks at his hands and he starts wiping the blood off his fucking hands, right? I mean, to me

that disturbed me. Like, this is your friend who's dead. It's your best friend in the world and you're worried about the blood on your hands. Whatever. So, then I see the money and the marijuana and this,

and so long story short, I see a sliver of a stack of hundreds. Not a lot. I think the number was 600. So I put a little 600 in my pocket. And now we have to call for the emergency service, the search teams, all those fucking, the sergeants, the EMS,

everybody to show up. We got a real shooting, we got a possible DOA on the scene, send an ambulance, send the sergeant, send the morgue, you know? Anyway, so we set it all up and in comes the sergeant about five, ten minutes into it. And he says, so we got this bags of marijuana, we got a stack of cash, I don't know how much cash was there at the time, and he turns around,

he looks at me, he says, so is that it? Right. So I look at him and I go, well, I take the fucking 600 out of my pocket and I go I can't fucking see it I go here this is he goes

is that it and I go that's it I go he goes I didn't want it to get all lost I don't know what to say like I gave you a stack of fucking 20s but I got a sliver of hundreds

in my pocket I didn't want it to get lost anyway so someone else takes the takes the perp oh I think the squad showed up I don't remember who showed up but I didn't process the arrest

right Because it was a homicide. Usually the homicide detectives took over right away. And they were there quick enough, so they took over the case. So the homicide detective says to me, what do you think? I said, he did it. The guy with the hands. And he says, he asks me why you say that?

I said, because just the way he acted. I said, plus he wasn't there. He came running out of somewhere. We did a little quick search. We saw handprints all up the fucking upstairs. There's handprints going upstairs. I didn't see him go upstairs. And with the handprints of blood.

Yeah. And he made it. I'm CSI now. Yeah. And he made such a scene about wiping off the blood and making sure he touches the guy to get blood out.

Exactly. That's all the blood on my hands because I touch down. Exactly. He made a big scene. Right. So from that, I says he did it.

And one of the statements the kid made was funny story. He says, I told him to stop fucking with those women. What do you care if he's, what he meant was stop fucking with my woman.

Oh, okay. As it turned out. So there's, The squad has this two, two, three pieces of information with them. They turned the guy in five minutes against himself. You know, I didn't, man. Because they told me he was alive. He's alive and he's talking.

They're like, oh, shit. The guy's obviously dead. He's got his brains all over the place. Anyway, so, so yeah, so at that scene, when I put the $100,600 and I gave it back. So that night we went out for choir practice, you know, drinking with the boys. And the sergeant happened to come with us. We're out in Huntington on Route 110. I think the place was

I can't remember that I think it's like Farrell's it wasn't Farrell's but something like that it was a common name one of those Irish bars a Fulton Street Fulton Street Pub

if anyone knows Huntington's Long Island Fulton Street Pub and I like to throw that a lot of people love that you know and so I was at Fulton Street pub

is 1.30 in the morning and I say I go over to a sergeant and I said which is odd because the soldiers usually don't go out with the fellas you know

because they're bosses you know let the boys do their thing I said listen I gave you he says I said, what do you think? I gave you a couple hundred. He goes, if you get there before me, it's all yours.

He says, if I show up, I can't condone you fucking taking it. Right. He says, because I don't want the problem. I'm a boss. He says, but you show up in a fucking murder scene and there's cash flight. Like, the NYP does not murder people. Right. To set you up.

Yeah. They're just not going to go that far. They'll do a lot of things. They're not going to kill people to set you up. So he says, if you get there, you see body and you see stacks of cash or whatever, it's yours. But make sure I get mine. And he says to me, because if I find out later on it,

that you clip $25, $30,000, then I got nothing. He says, I'm going to be pissed. I said, so for effect, you know, later on I thought about it. And I'm like, he just gave me a fucking license to do whatever the fuck I want. And now I'm like, at 23. years old or something like that. And I'm saying,

I can fucking do anything I want out here. Especially since the witnesses are mostly dead or running from the scene. It's their word against yours anyway. And I'm a cop.

And honestly, like when we talk about the drug dealer stuff, like the other guys, like, what are they going to say? Their drug dealers. Hey, I lost 10 keys and 50,000 in cash. Who's going to say that?

You're going to walk to the precinct. Excuse me, a detective or investigator, yeah. One of your police officers robbed me for 35 kilos and a million dollars in cash. okay good sit down have a seat

just not what happens but more and more it happens today believe it not it wasn't back then your sergeant you said it's funny because like I actually had an owner of a bank tell me basically it was almost the same

a similar site well I mean he caught us right and then sold the loan caught us said hey we caught you and said I don't know nothing about it and he said and then he sold the loans knowing they were all fraudulent loans bad loans selling them because he thought they might perform and then later he came down

and we were talking he had a couple drinks in him we were talking about fraud and he said listen man I don't care about fraud he was nobody in the industry cares about fraud he said if you

if it goes through us and we can get rid of it he said I could care less he is I just don't want to get stuck with it and to me that was just like so he was basically saying nobody's going to loan the FBI

like the worst that happens is we blacklist you and you can't do any loans with us And it was just like, to me, I was like, oh my God. And then, I mean, listen to after that, it was like, yeah. Turned it. I punched it. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah. So that moment is a defining moment for me because I became less cautious. Right. About scenes. I didn't.

So I actively looked for scenes, but I didn't, I wouldn't roused up a scene to make it happen. Right. So then I, then like, I'd rush to a homicide. Right. I mean, no one really wants to be on a homicide because then you've got to stay with it and do all the dirty work, right? But if you rush to a homicide scene,

see, people die for a couple reasons, usually because of a bad relationship issue, money or drugs. Right. And in the ghetto, it's usually money and drugs because everybody's got a bad relationship. You know, babies, daddy's momas, you know. Thanksgiving is a tough day

because, you know, they all get, you know, six babies' daddy show up for nine babies' moms. You know, it gets confusing. It really does. you know but I'll tell you one's funny story I had the I parked footposts one day because I was on punishment post they used I used to get punishment post because they didn't want to have to keep an eye on me so it was easy to put me on a footpost because you only have like a block square area but if in the car you can

go fucking 40 miles from one direction to the other and when I was under a lot of investigation they'd put me on a foot post and so one of the young girls comes up to me a young kid like eight nine years cute kid beautiful little child says to me something about Thanksgiving or Christmas and she says, well, I have five stepdaddies and I said, oh, I felt bad for the child. You know, five stepdaddies. I got seven brothers and sisters and five stepdaddies.

I said, oh, that's, you know, she goes, it's great because Christmas, each one of the stepdaddies buys us a gift. Right. So that's guaranteed five or six gifts there. And then your own daddy? he really gives you lots of gifts so i mean like there was a there was a silver lining there was a silver lining to everything you know so like they do stab each other every once or one that's that's

yeah usually because mom is not you know yeah putting she's not holding up our end of the bargain i guess i don't know whatever but yeah so it i mean what an education for a for a guy who grew up there his dad was a fireman and he came home you know once every three days would smell like smoke you know and hockey player, baseballs, athletic, you know. Long Island kids going to play sports and you're out in the ghetto now, like putting out fires every day like, what the fuck? Not fires, but, you know, putting fires, personal fires out every day, putting your finger in the dike of the dam.

And the crack arrow was just insane. It was insane. Well, and there wasn't a big budget for police, for law enforcement at the time. It was, I mean, it was just a... So you hit a point there, the budget. So part of the reason why things get the way to do, you can actually hawking back to today, what's going on in today's environment.

Like, it's dangerous today in a lot of these major cities because of the, you say budget, whatever, they defund the police story. But back then, we had budget crunches because the volume of arrests was insane. Like, so, like, people don't get this. Like, there's a million arrests in New York City every year. Just make sure you're close.

Yeah, there's a million arrests in New York City every year. That's insane. That's what it was, let's say. And so 250,000 were arrested in Brooklyn, maybe more. It's a lot of process, right? We talked about process before. There's always a process, right? So processing an arrest is guaranteed 17 hours overtime.

Maybe more. Right. So you're paying somebody to process an arrest. arrest for 17 hours overtime, then you're having to pay for legal aid for the perpetrator, court costs, bailiff court, you can go down the list on what it costs just to process an arrest without the overtime. So the city began to sort of discourage arrests for drugs. Now, perfect storm, right? Because if you're telling a police officer don't make an arrest for drugs because it's not going to go well for you why we're going to put you on footposts we're

going to put you in less desirable assignments because you're killing us with the overtime costs so some guys didn't give it damn they'd make an arrest in the station house like and that happens all that happens by the way every day you know people walk in ask a question guy runs the name oh you could you're under arrest and the guy like we took you off patrol so you wouldn't make overtime he goes too bad I got an arrest right now and you can't stop me right see they can't stop you from making a lawful arrest right right what's the supervisor to say unarrest that person let them go yeah you can't you know but today I think you can for price six because it seems that way which is another story right so so

think about that 250,000 arrests everyone is 17 hours overtime let's just for argument's sake and the numbers just are astronomical it's outrageous so they they discourage it so now you're telling me here's what you make me you make me the armed security force for the drug dealers. Right. You're just trying to get people to stop shooting each other at this point. So I'm not arresting. I'm just trying to get you guys to stop killing us. Stop killing each other. So it's the profile. So you have a higher visibility because if I make an arrest, I'm taking a patrol car and my partner pretty much off the street unless there's somebody else to jump in with him because we don't do solo patrols in Brooklyn.

You're not allowed. It's dangerous. So I'm taking you off the street and me off the street. And in process an arrest. So that cars down for the day. So really the numbers-wise, it doesn't pay to make the arrest. So we become the armed security force for the drug dealers. I mean, when it's January 17th,

and it's 18 below zero with the windshield, and it's 2 o'clock in the morning, and there's four guys on the corner on Picking Avenue and Pine, what the fuck do you think they're doing? Right. I mean, can anybody out here tell me, what do you think they're doing?

I mean, they're selling fucking something. you know they got the Eskimo so they get to go about their business while you hang out and make sure nobody drives by and shoots at them because they're on their corner or so yeah so you could fill in the fucking dots from there and that's what happened was the public began to be outraged that

we were not making arrests but they're not they're not announcing to the public we're discouraging arrests and this is a fact these are all facts as I lived it you know we're discouraging drug rest because blah, blah, blah, we're saving money. In the meantime, it's like the... It's making your neighborhood horrible to live in.

It's the broken window theory. Fix the window in the house so it looks better and people won't try to break in, steal, and burn it down, right? So that was the Giuliani theory. Fix the broken window. Get the squeegee guy from off your windshield because once he's off your windshield, he has to be someplace else.

You're not intimidated and you go forward and have a better day. So that's the approach they had back then. And we were the epicenter of, you know, the police are always the conflict, no matter what. No matter if you do, it's damned. Damned if you do, damn if you don't. You know, so, so there was a long line of what you're seeing today happened back then, but in a different way, because back then, but you can still beat the fuck out of you.

Right. Straight up. Back then you can still, there's too many cameras. Back then you can still give a good beating and everybody went home. It's funny. And everybody went home. The Rodney King thing, I remember all these guys were like... I got arrested three days after the Rodney King riots.

Everybody, when that came out, I remember guys were saying, you know, well, that's an isolated event. I was like, yeah, it was. The isolated event was that there was a guy where they were with a camera. It happens all the time. It was just isolated. There was a guy with a camera. And yes, and that's true. And to defend the police always is, that's not what, that's not all they do.

No, no, no. And it's usually, let's just say, earned. It's usually earned. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's usually earned. And I'm not saying they deserve that, but it's usually earned. You know what's funny is like a guy's talked to me about prison. They're like, you know, well, there are a lot of stabbings and people, were you scared?

Were you like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm like, you understand. If you get stabbed in prison or beaten up in prison, you had it coming. It doesn't sound good, but you did something. Like, they're not randomly running up and smashing dudes. You owed money. Right. They told you to pay it.

Then they, you said, fuck you. Then they told you check in so you get yourself shipped. You said, I'm not going to. They, you know, they brought, they went to your, they went to the shot collar, explained to his shot collar. Finally, the shot caller talked to you. He, you then told him, I'm not paying. Then the shot collar said, beat his ass.

Right. And you got your ass beat or you get stabbed. I mean, you had a chance. Yeah, yeah. You know. Punks, money, drugs. Absolutely. One of the worst beatings I saw was over a punk.

Yeah. And it's so funny to say punk out here. Like the first time I said it, like everybody like, I was like, I mean, a gay guy. Yeah. And it's like, oh, now it's even worse. Yeah. Now you just, I just, I just said I called it. I just said I called a punk or a gay guy a punk.

Yeah, right. And that's prison. Yeah, right. So, yeah. But, okay, so back to, um, what I was going to say is, I mean, at some point, the guy cello came to you. Oh, yeah. I forgot his name. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It was, it was. It's funny because, too, like, he was the low man that told him all his boss. Then his boss was actually a really good interview. You know what I'm saying? So you got it confused. Huh? You got it confused. Chella was a boss.

Oh, Chello. I thought Chello was the guy in the, in the, um, cello was the guy in the, uh, the Porsche. Yeah. Well, yeah. So, oh, he was the boss. I thought he was under the, the other guy. No, cellar was a. So Diaz says cella was a little nothing to him.

Right. That's what he says. Because Diaz, you know, he started at two, 300 kilos a week. Chello might do 50 kilos a week, but he was selling grams, half grams, fucking dime bag, whatever the fuck he was selling. So he was selling retail, and Diaz sold wholesale. So to him, he was a nobody. But cello had his own organization, top to bottom.

He was in charge of his own organization, La Campania. Yeah. La Campania. And, you know, they had 28 murders, the fucking law company. And Chello was responsible in some way or another for the hits that they order. Right. So, yeah, so he, so they were two, let's say they're two equals this way, but Diaz, you know, sold a million dollars in tonnage.

This guy sold a million dollars in half grams. Right. So that's the thing. But Chello put a hit on me because I, he, he, he, I put. put pressure on his shop, put pressure on his store because he didn't pay me to $700. He's supposed to pay me $8,000. He shorted me $700. Why would he do that? Did you ever find out like when he's just trying you right out of the gate he just tried you? I wasn't sure. So that's why I was pissed, you know, like why would

you do that, you know? So I think what it is and I think that somebody. But he came up with the exact amount that he was short. Yeah. Okay. So I mean, he knew. It's not like somebody missed counted well I I think that he didn't do it okay so there was an intermediary yeah I think that a guy see when they when they pay in drug money it comes in thousands right so a thousand bundles right and if it's 20s it's 50 50 20s is a thousand bucks right yeah right so so instead of there's 45 45 45 45 45 and it was like like we're counting out it's like are they doing it on purpose right right So someone's taking $100 out of each bundle.

That's what I got from it. So by telling them that they were short $700, I thought he would go, be pissed at his people. Not pissed at me. Why would I tell you you short $700? I mean, that's penny. That's picky-oon. I'm telling you you short $700 because, one,

if it's your people that are robbing it, straighten them out, and two, make it right. So to clarify, you basically, you had gone to them and said, look, it's $8,000, give me $8,000 a week, and I'm going to give you the heads up on any investigations, on anything that's coming down, any raids, anything into you. He then pays you the money, short somehow or another you get shorted. And then you don't say anything.

It's not like you can complain. What you did was you went and you basically parked your police car in front of. No, so I went to Barron, the head of the Autosound City shop. You told him. In black in the thing. Yeah. who set this whole meeting up. I said, Barron, we're short 700.

He goes, yeah, I know. I said, well, tell him we're short 700, make it right. I didn't think much of it. And then after about a week, he comes back and tells him, go fuck yourselves, we're not paying you. We're done, and I'm not paying you. That's not the way this is going to go. So I started putting pressure on the store.

I had myself and my partner would park in front of his store. I just sit there all fucking chase cars that pulled up. And, you know, just made it clear that you're not going to, This could go bad for you. You're not going to do this, right? So, and then I even went one step further and I paid another crew of cops $1,000 just to sit on the store when I wasn't working.

So he had like 24 hours a day almost coverage on the store. I mean, up until midnight, you know? So all day up until midnight, he couldn't sell a fucking Graham of Coke because no one would go to the store because the cops were there. You don't want to get caught moving out with the drugs on him. Anyway, so he sends a message over to Barron. I put a hit on him.

So I don't, and I get, my 9-1-1-1-Barran doesn't page me 9-1-9-1-1 page goes off and I end up going in to see Barron he goes they put it on you I said okay and and the funny thing is that I heard which I think was accurate that the precinct knew about it and told me nothing they yeah they knew about it and didn't fucking say anything they were at that point they were already they were like they were like good kill his motherfucker so they didn't know what to do but I heard that they knew so they had informants right in the fucking la Campania and if you remember them in that van in the movie scene in the van Joe Hall they're running back to the

yeah well in that van was one of the company's informants telling them who's oh that's when they ran from them when they came out they start shooting out of and they take off correct so much my point it made it sound like there was only a couple guys there they didn't mention that yeah oh yeah no yeah yeah but my point was that so the precinct and the DEA they work together yeah had informants in the company and they knew that they put put a hit on me because the informants told them they put a hit on this cop yeah so so so so so now when I get the word I went I and it's funny because my recollection gets a little foggy here and and I was I was called to task on some common uh I did it I did a um

Audie Lang podcast but with Kenny came on the I did a audio long lang podcast then Kenny fucking cried and begged I want to do what I want to do what I want to do on so audi lang said I'll put you on he says Mike can you you join us in the middle of the fucking podcast, and I don't want to do it, because I don't want to give Kenny any fucking credibility, but for Audi Lang's sake, I said, let me, I'll jump on.

And we argue back and forth about, he says, and you didn't do, he says, I don't remember any of this $700 and you confront them and this Mexican standoff in the fucking street. I said, really? I said, you weren't there because it happened. I got the 700.

He said, well, I didn't get my half. I said, well, if you didn't get your half, it's because you didn't do anything. What'd you do for it? I ended up fucking chasing a guy down, getting a death threat put on me, pulling him over. I mean, I wouldn't short Kenny 350, so I don't know. I don't know that I didn't give it to him,

but I'll take his word for it that I didn't. But then he wasn't there because I think I was working with the Internal Affairs chick, Lisa Breland. She was like, they'd have set me up, but she didn't. She just couldn't do it. You know, if she wasn't trying really hard, you know. But so anyway, so after the threat was made, I found the guy that day.

On the first fucking day that he put a hit on me, I never met the guy in my life. I just know he paid us, but I knew the description of his car. So I went up on Fulton Street by Norwood under the L, and sure enough, there's a fucking car, I pulled him over,

and I licensed registration and insurance card. He turned as wet as his shirt. No, that's not accurate. He's like, oh, okay, officer, I get your license registration insurance card, and he goes like this, and I take the license registration, I throw it right back on, bang,

because he was down below me, so I throw it right back in his fucking lap. I go, you fucking fucking put a hit on me, motherfucker he's like now he's like fucking now he doesn't know what to do I just was yeah it's funny because like you're so like you're in it right yeah yeah so I go I was praying he had a fucking gun on him like like I was just like when he opened the glove box to get like let the look for an excuse let the gun fall out you know I mean because at this point you put a fucking hit on me I mean I got a win I can't lose otherwise it's over right so

well and these guys are killing people yeah there's there's murders all the time and that's what they do so I'm just I might as well just you know if you got a gun on you I can kill you and then we just make a little 95 tag put it on your toe and say goodbye um I mean that's how right that's what you have to that's what you become you know you become it now you know it's no longer like you're there you're there for you right to survive no I was the the um when they did the what was it the commission and they're questioning you during the commission the one commissioner asks you know were you uh did you at that by this point so So when you start protecting the actual, that organization, she says, do you feel like

you were a police officer or were you a, you know, a drug traffic? Right, right, right. And you were kind of like, hmm, I didn't know what to say. I don't know. I look at my lawyer. I go, what do I tell them? Tell them the truth. I said, both.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, how does that work? I don't know, but it felt like both. And it was like, that's like, everything like, holy fuck, imagine you were that. don't, you know, look, they don't get the, they don't understand the mindset of continually getting away with committing crime, what it does to you, like mentally, you, you just, look, when you go to work and you drive a truck and you deliver Coca-Cola every day and you're going

to the same routine and same routine and same routine and you're, you're underneath the umbrella of the law. Right. And you're following all the rules. You don't understand what it's like to work or to behave outside of that. that and get away with things consistently. I mean, most people, they drive a little bit over the speed limit, boom, they get caught. They're like, I can't

believe this. You know, and you know, but when you are existing outside of that, and you continually get away with it forever, and then when you do get caught periodically, you get out of it over and over again. You get this, the rules just don't apply to it. Yeah. The gray line. That's what you start believing it. It was a

silver, it was a gray line. You started out here, right? And the gray line just kept getting further and further away. So, like, I would start, like, most people start their day, tie their shoes and go to work and drive down the fucking highway, you know, stop at the light. Right. I mean, I started my day over here. So, like, stopping at the red light was way over here.

Like, that wasn't even an option. Like, you know, when you see, normal people start here. And when you start here, and this is normal, you can't, that's harder to do. It's harder to do normal than, you're already over here. We can rationalize and justify anything, but that's how it is. Yeah. No, look, it's, you know, and this is a horrible example, it's like, it's like when I'm driving on legitimate driver's licenses and other people's names, you know, some homeless guy I interviewed in Idaho and I've got a driver's license and I'm driving, the rules don't apply. Right.

So I'm getting, am I, you know, are you scared of getting pulled over? No. No. The car's in his name. The registration. I mean, the, the, the insurance. And if I get it, I'll get three tickets into his name and run up all the points. Go to traffic schools.

Like, it doesn't apply. It doesn't matter to me. I have tons of money to pay for the extra insurance. I'm driving 95 miles an hour in a 50 because it just doesn't apply. And if I get pulled over, I'll pay the ticket. Like, I'm not, the cop would come to the window and be like, you know, do you know how fast I was going? I was like, it depends on how far long you been behind me. Yeah, when did you start laughing and they just look at you and I go, they'd go, well, why were you going so fast?

And I'd go, stupidity? Yeah. And he would look at it and he goes, never heard that one before. And they'd go, well, alright, I'll be back. Like, they don't know what to do. You know, because like everything I had,

like, you're not going to go check at the car and find a warrant. Right. I got that covered. Right. Like, I'm, you know, so it's just, it's just insane. Right.

Like, your thought, and you don't realize until you're sitting in that jail cell and I started looking at myself going, I was a fucking maniac, bro. Like, what am I thinking? Yeah. Like, how did I? People start telling me things.

I did and said and behaved like and I was like I know you're right and I'm like now I look at it and I think how was I not terrified? Right. Yeah I'm driving I'm driving home from work in my Corvette

going 140 miles an hour down Robert Moses Robert Moses, not the Causeway Jones Beach Parkway and I got a half a kilo in the back of the vet and I don't even have my badge

anymore because now I'm on modified assignment. I've got myself to where I'm on modified assignment, which means that I've gone to the farm. You're almost not a cop anymore, but I'm still going 140 down the Jones Beach Causeway because no traffic. And the police vehicle that I've passed, it's plain clothes. So he's got to be a detective. And detectives don't chase speeders. But turns out this guy's in the the New York State escaped fugitives program and he just happens to be driving along

Jones Beach State Parkway the day I'm blowing by in my fucking 140 mile an hour in my red corvette with a white convertible top. You're not noticeable at all. You can't. You won't see this. Practically blends in. The one that I parked in the lieutenant spot, you know, because he pissed me off because she thought he could bang my girlfriend

and that wasn't going to happen, you know, the biggest cock and, you know, bigger red fucking corvette in the lieutenant spot. You know, so it's just, it never ends. Like, like, put a flag on your back and call yourself asshole, idiot or king, whatever you, either way, someone's coming for you. Right.

You know, the bright red light shining all the time, you know. Well, so, I mean, look, at some point, at, at some point, you guys started like I mean you started you were full time basically giving these guys the drug dealers you're you're giving them escorts right you're like that one time when the they were about to raid the guys fucking the grocery store where they're selling kilos out of that made that made me worth my weight in gold oh I'm sure if you let Diaz said in the Mike was worth his weight in gold so so they're the the cops are about to raid this grocery store where

they're selling keys out of the back of the grocery store and you go. You can get pampas and sugars. So he finds out about it, whips around, comes in, goes into the store to get a couple of beers, goes up to the counter and you tell, you tell Diaz, right? No. Oh, is that just some cash register. When you say that in the thing, I was wondering, like, Diaz is running the cash register? No, this is just this guy. This is just his cash register as the worker.

You just lean in and say Cut it Cut it Cut it And he looks at me I go shut it Because I didn't know If he knew

If he knew That I was the mark You know Because I never met these people Right Do you even know You don't probably Do you even know

That he knows What's really happening In the back Or you know he knows Okay He got to know There's no way Okay

The guys are walking With bags of money And shit You know And he might tell him Go to the back You know If someone's new

Or unaware What to do You know They're coming in with, back then it was shoeboxes filled with money. When you're buying a kilo or two, you know, you're coming in with stacks of thousands like this, you know. And I would be like, I can't believe these guys are standing in front of the store with boxes.

Like they're standing in front of the store with boxes, shoe boxes. I mean, am I that stupid? You got brand new Nike size 12 and this is a size 8. They must also feel invincible though. I mean, I've written in stories where the drug dealers were paying FBI agents to, and so they, he was like, oh, I was bulletproof. Yeah. I felt, I felt untouchable. It's like, I'm paying a, I'm paying an FBI agent.

He said, he's calling me. He's like, if I meet somebody, I call him up and say, hey, this is the guy's name, run him. He is in, he comes back like an hour later and says, uh-uh, he was arrested two weeks ago. He's currently this. He's going to don't work with it. Or they go, he's good. Never heard of that guy. And so, I mean, they feel, not just that.

they would have guys get arrested, call the FBI, and the FBI, he's like, and like two hours later, the cops come to him and say, okay, we're releasing you. Yeah. They just called up and say, look, he's a CI. Let him go right now. They just, he's like, I've been walked right out. Yeah, it was all the time.

So, but yeah, so I can imagine they felt invincible. But, you know, so walking around with them walking, being pretty obvious. Yeah. Probably not that big of a deal today. At that point, they think, well, we got Mike. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, well, but I was like the one who told.

And listen, you got to tamp that shit down because it's one, it's over the top. You know, I'm trying to, see, because what I'm trying to do is to keep them from getting on the radar for narcotics. Right. Because if they're on narcotics radar, I don't work for narcotics. I'm a patrolman, right? So I'm trying to keep them off the radar for narcotics. I make a phone call to narcotics on its competition.

And the guy on the narcotics says, oh, you mean 522 New Jersey on the corner of Vermont and, and And Nulats, I go, no, it's 521 across the street. Right. But now you're the, he goes, oh, we're not aware of that one. I go, yeah, well, that's the one. That's the one that's really doing bad stuff right now. I'm going to tell a guy. This is my guy's story.

He just gave me the address to. He says, we're in that. We got that. We're on that one. I'm like, I can't believe. Because my guy complained, my Adam complained to me. He says, the guy across the street. It's lowering his prices.

So, I mean, I sent cops in there on duty, off duty. We shook the place down, on duty, off duty. We threatened this guy to shut him down, right? And then we'd sit in front of his store and chase people, so he had no business going on for about a week. Meanwhile, we go around the bar over on Blake and Dumont Avenue and right by Vermont. And there's this fucking Jeep, Wrangler sitting there

with two guys with beards, you know. Oh, I go, hey, what's going on, guys? Hey, yeah, we're doing a stakeout around the block. I don't know where, because there's six spots around the block, but I know one is mine. Right. So I go around the block, and I walked in the store, and I fucking picked up two Heinekins.

They opened up the Hinekins. I don't know if they opened them all. They probably did. Open up the Hinekins, put them in a brown paper bag, walked out, shut it down. Now, walked out the store, got in the car, called the beeper, The beeper thing I had to call?

Yeah. Got no answer. Like, I ain't got time for this, but this is not good. I just saw on the cover around the block. I don't know when this is going down. They didn't give me the inside. Right. Loop on this.

So that's why I went in, by the way. So I told it in reverse. So I hit the pageer. I waited like 30 seconds. They didn't call the pay phone back. I said, I can't do this. Went inside, shut them down, left. About a half an hour later, we circled back, and they got the fucking lights, dogs,

a team of 40 fucking guys going in through in and out of the place but they didn't find anything they found nothing yeah they couldn't even find salt in the place so yeah so you know I laugh but you know it's you laugh you know I shouldn't laugh but it is what you know what I'm saying

I hate when I do a podcast and then guys come back and they he's not even sorry he's bragging you didn't see me come on the podcast to cry right right and a Right, I'm not here for that. I'm here to tell you the story,

tell you how it was. I didn't cry that day. No one got hurt. No one got hurt, which was the key thing, which I always had said to Diaz, is if somebody gets hurt. If a cop gets hurt,

I don't mean like you've tripped and broke a fucking way. If a cop gets injured, doing one of your fucking operations or shot at, you know, or injured severely, I said, I'll turn myself in. I said, I'm not going to live

with that on my conscience. Right. And if you, if you, If you spoke to Diaz, if you saw him in the, he's just, he's a nice guy. He's, I mean, he'll kill people if you ask you. Oh, absolutely.

Don't get me wrong. Oh, listen, the nicest guys are murder I've met that are, the nicest murderers I've met, and they're just super nice guys. You know, Johnny A-Ly, you know, Larry Mazza, you know, I had dinner with Larry yesterday. I know Johnny, I mean, I've been out with Johnny a dozen times, you know.

And I mean, those guys, between the two of them, they killed 40, 50 people. But then the nicest guys you ever want to meet in your life. You know, I was going to tell you, you know, the police officer that, was it, did he take his baton or a plunder or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was in Coleman. Yeah, was he in Coleman because he had, it was in Minnesota, wasn't he? No, he was in Coleman for a couple of years. I'm sure he'd have been many places. So there was a police officer who had arrested some guy, guys mouthing off, and.

They knew this guy. He was a pain in the prick. Yeah. He was a setup. This guy was a setup. He was constantly baiting the police. Right. And so he's mouthing off. He's this. I forget. What's, would you remember what Bulby's first name is? Anyway, he fucking cop gets frustrated.

Basically takes his fucking baton in the police department, right? Right. In the bathroom. In the bathroom. Right in the guy's ass. Now, I, you know, and when, so I had met. You like that? I don't think it went that smooth, but he, but, guys, this is horrible. See, this is.

And so anyway, perforated the guy. Yeah, yeah, he, so, yeah, so there was, there was definitely, you know, he didn't light candles, there was no soft music. So, anyway, so it was a bad situation, right? So he ends up, of course, he gets, he's fired, they bring up charges, everything. He gets, he goes. 30 years. Yeah, they, yeah, they gave him 30.

He played guilty. In the middle of the trial, he's like, I, I just pled guilty. Like, it was obvious I was going to get, he was just going so wrong. And when, so when we were talking at Coleman, that's how we get, that's how he was going to get 35. Right. He ends up, he pleads guilty.

Is that how he got that? In the middle of the trial, he played guilty. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, he said I was, it was so over the top bad that he said, listening to it, I just. Right. Oh, yeah. Couldn't, you know.

You hate yourself when you listen to what they say. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he's like, I just, this is so, this is so going so wrong. He's like I could look at the jury and I could tell it's over. And of course, this is the thing, like, the jury doesn't know what you're facing. Right. So the jury's like, did he do it?

Yeah, he did. Do you believe he did? Yes, I believe it. Okay, they go home and they think, he's probably going to get probation or he's probably going to get five or ten years. He's going to do eight. Yeah, yeah, that's what they think. And then boom, you get 35 or 40 years. And they go, what?

Now, granted, what he did was fucked up. But still, you typically don't give a rapist that kind of sentence. So the point is is that. he ended up in prison, nicest guy. He wasn't, Justin. Justin. Thank you. And when we talked one time, I remember I looked at him and I went, I go, bro, I mean, honestly, what the fuck? He's like, I don't know.

He's like, I was, you know, you have to understand. You have to be there. You have to be there. And just feel invincible and this was what I was doing and this. Steroids and all this. Yeah, he's telling me out. And I'm just going, I go, still. And he's like, ah, come on.

What are you doing? I said, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I mean, we're two guys in the library laughing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not laughable.

What is not laughable. But it's, it's comical for some to actually, you mean, you shoved your fucking broomstick on, but someone's ass? I mean, what the fuck were you thinking?

Where did that even, what did that come from? He told me, you know the PSI, right? You're pre-sentence. Oh, yeah, he could imagine. He said the PSI,

the, the, he said when he, so when you, so when you, when you get in trouble. The guy got $7 million and he lived just so you know. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, there's no death or anything. I mean, which is not, no, it's horrific too. There's no way to justify it. Whatever, it is what it is. Deal with it. So the point is when he's doing his PSI, which it means the probation officer comes and they interview you for a pre-sentence report

that goes to the judge. So the judge can try and determine what your sentence should be. And there's a whole, yeah, and try and if there any mitigating circumstances, you know, to give you the high end of the guidelines or even the low end, you know, And so they come to him and so while he's being interviewed, he told me, he goes, while he was being interviewed by the, by the probation officer. Female probation officer.

Well, I think it was a male permit. He said, well, he's being, the guy starts asking him, like, is there any, anything in your past, like any abuse, anything? And he said he's looking at him and Justin goes, he goes, no, no, no, there were, there were no funny pony rides in my in my childhood, if that's what you're asking. And I mean, it's like, funny pony rides. And he said, I know, my dad fucking was there. My dad was like, funny pony rides. That's like, that's like even strange. He's like, how did you?

Okay. What is you funny pony rides? He's like, I don't know. Listen, obviously the conversations in prison are not like the conversations you have with your buddy that works at Walmart. Clearly, you're dealing with a different. Everybody's done something or heard of something. Yeah.

Yeah, so he was a little off. Nice guy, though. Seems like a nice guy. Of course, I had never been arrested, bought for Miami either. And I've never thought of a pony ride, but now when I think a pony, you know, that'll definitely come up. Yeah. Yeah.

I can't see a miniature pony now. So I was the face of corruption. Oh, yeah, yeah. All right, in 92, I get arrested. So I got sentenced in 94. He perforates this guy in 97, right? So the city's just starting to be able. You got lucky then.

Well, I never got lucky. This is the city, yeah, no, the city is just starting to heal from the, from the trauma that I put it through. They changed the whole fucking patrol guide. They add a whole new division, no, bureau, they call it bureau. They went from internal affairs division to internal affairs bureau, which means it's now, it's, so what that means is they've now created another layer. So it's now it's over.

It's over, it's like, so you have the detective bureau, and the Internal Affairs Bureau because it used to be IAD which was a division right now it's a bureau so there's nothing above that except but Bureau basically

you kind of govern yourself you self govern right okay correct so before they were division they could be told back off correct okay now they're their own bureau yeah so anyway so that I created thank you and there's some chiefs that yeah that I gave jobs

because they were I'm sure that's how they look at it too. Probably everybody wants to thank you. One of them I heard, because I hear stories throughout the years and one of them says, I finally got a out case. Like, really? Like, like, I got one. Like a Charles, like a Charles Ponzi. A Manson. A Manson. A Manson. A Manson. I got me a Manson. Now they've got a whole thing named after you. It's like like Ponzi. Like before Charles Ponzi, it was the Peter Paul scam. Now we renamed, we named, we named,

renamed corruption after you. Yeah, right, right. They got a Michael Dowd kicks. Something. Yeah, internal affairs. Now, why got me and Michael Dow? Look at the other words, it's going to be a career maker.

Right. And that guy ended up getting arrested. The guy that publicly said it got arrested, he got arrested for taking money or, I should even say taking money. I think he got arrested for doing favors on summonses, like cutting people, like, don't worry about it. We'll get rid of the summons.

Like, how small? How small is the fuck? You're really a big shot. You got a doubt. The smallest of cases that they got rid of you for something shit like that. Well, it's like, you know, what's fun. Well, I was going to say, look, sometimes some guys, some guys do insane shit, probably their entire career and never have it come back on them.

Some guys do something minor and get caught immediately. Because I was going to say, you went years and years and years doing, not that it's minor. Well, in comparison. Yeah, a couple thousand here, a thousand here, 500 here. But when you leapt to, hey, give me $8,000 a month, I'm going to watch out for you. I'm going to do this. I'm going to give you the heads up. If I come across it, I'm going to this, I'm going to that.

I'm going to escort your guys. I'm going to do this. So you have a whole litany of things that you're doing for this money. You know, that really just like that's actually what your partner. What was your partner's name? Kenny, when he was like, he went like within a month from taking like a hundred bucks to, boom, we're making $8,000 a week doing this. Yeah, yeah, $8,000 a week. I mean, he went from being a normal cop

And him slipping him like a hundred bucks And then like a month later, boom, okay, here's what we're doing now Yeah, we get eight down a hundred bucks What? Yeah How did it just go from me getting a hundred bucks Which I didn't even spend Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kept it in my locker to eight that

But he was a cheap cock sucker I mean he was he didn't say nothing He loved, listen, so So in hindsight And even at the time I recognized at the time That he could say no right now Oh yeah, yeah

And then everything would be okay It's not like a Serpico situation I never put him in a situation Where he had to do this Right Because I made a determination that That I was gonna be a police officer Until I get arrested

Right or quit or get injured And get three quarters disability Which is what my goal was And so But what happened My goal Get injured because I Yeah that's your goal

If you get a best case scenario I twist my knee Yeah, no, yeah, bad knee. A slight limp. Yeah, good. Three quarters. Disability for the rest of the life's tax-free. So, yeah, I mean, that's the goal.

So that was my goal, and I had it. At any minute, I could have done it because I needed surgery on either knee because both meniscuses were torn from playing ice hockey. So I started out with a pension. But the money was so good, and I just liked it. Yeah. I just liked it. I liked going to work. and just being important.

Oh, yeah, no, no doubt, absolutely. I mean, I know, I know, like, I never retired, right? I didn't get a chance. But when I talk to guys, I had retired, like, they're like impotent. It sucks. They're like, I'm not important anymore. Like, you know, they think they are, but they know they're not, you know. And even their wives hate them, and they get half their pension and they leave them.

You know, so, yeah, so I get it now. But at the time, I was faced with choices. You know, if Kenny had told me, I'm not doing it. You know, I'll have a beer with you at Joe's Moldega, but I'm not going to do this. I would have said, okay, and I would have just probably, and I don't want to say this for sure, I would have just went on and did my thing,

probably got a pension and left. But instead I had a- But I got a partner in crime. I had a willing partner in crime, and I said, this is great. Because now I got a guy who's all in, and he was, who's all in. So what happens in,

And it doesn't really show up in the movie. What happens is, doesn't at all show up in the movie, is Kenny Yerell, I know he's a little soft in the underbelly, right? And so I end up going away to a fucking rehab, you know, because I was in, I went to the, you can't have a drug problem in the police department because you get terminated. So I told him I had an alcohol problem, which, all right, whatever.

And I go up to the rehab. And while I was away to rehab, I told Kenny, you know, Kenny, I found out a little bit more information. By going into rehab, they came to, like the counselors, which are cops, said, listen, you're in a lot of fucking hot water from what we know.

And you just need to stop whatever you're doing, do your rehab time, and then pray and go to church. This is what the guy said, and go to church every Sunday. I said, okay, young, 26, 25, whatever fuck I was. Yeah, okay, sure.

But I knew a problem could arise from a weak link. So in the meantime, three of my friends get arrested for shaking down a bodega for doing an armed robbery. So they're out, I put a bail for one and put one in my house.

Because his family kicks him out and he's got nowhere to go. And his name is Walter, that big Walter in the fucking, big Walter with the big fucking hands. I end up putting them in my house. In the meantime, I tell Kenny, you got to get hurt.

It's Fourth of July weekend. It's Fourth of July weekend. I'm in a rehab. just came home from rehab and Kenny's not getting any patrol assignments because if you go on patrol you're going to get hurt right because it's arrest every day there's an arrest but it's 4th of July weekend that everybody's out on details like in Manhattan doing parade duties all the shit so they they're sure manpower so Kenny hasn't been on patrol in four months not one day what's he doing he's in the station house okay do paperwork yeah phone answering clerical shit because

they don't want them out there 4th July weekend they're short they put him in a car's first he makes an arrest some kind of fence was involved whatever grabs the mooch brings him in and goes into the bathroom and breaks his hand oh on the sink and he already broke it once before so now he's he goes bang he fucking slams it on the porcelain sink breaks his left-handed he breaks his fucking hand he goes in and tells the fucking boss he says ah making the arrest I got hurt grabbing this guy over the fence whatever no one gives a fuck they're not thinking yeah they're not thinking he's under investigation he needs to get the fuck off the job he breaks his hand he never go that one day on

patrol breaks his wrist never goes back to work he gets a three-quarters disability pension i get it for him because my uncle runs the pension section right i call he gets he gets medically clearly medically approved because you can't have a cop with a bad risk that has broken now twice in the last like say six years right because now he's going to be shooting a gun what if his risk goes being in the middle of shooting the gun and kills the kid instead of the old man. You're right. So they approve him medically. Now it's supposed to take a year to two to get released through the pension system.

I call my uncle. I say, unc. Kenny was just approved yesterday. He goes, okay, it's going to take 30 days. He goes from the bottom of the pile to the top of the pile, and he's fucking walking out the door and who's walking in? Because you go before the pension board. The pension board, boom, approved.

You're done. He's walking out the door. In comes Tromboli, the guy that was following me for fucking years. Right. He passed a dinner in front of my house, his wife kicking him out of the door. He's walking in to interview him. And Trimbole goes, you're out. He goes, I wasn't there, but I was told.

He goes, he says to him, what are you doing here? He says, I'm sorry, Sarge. I got nothing to say to you. He goes, what do you mean? He goes, I'm off the job. I'm retired. Three-quarters disability. He goes, I wanted to ask you about doubt.

he goes, I'd love to tell you. He says, but I'm not required to talk to you right now. I'm done. Got to go. But the love to tell you thing was in there, you know? He wanted to tell him. So he leaves, he gets us to record his disability. Now he's sitting at home bored.

He likes the action. That's right. He likes the action. He likes the action. So I'm running around now. I've made it through the rehab two years. I went to two years of rehab work. And then Kenny is calling me.

up. I need fucking some I need some work. I need some bricks. I need something. I didn't know he was involved in fucking drugs. Right. I had no idea. Was he before or this is just something he's decided to do? So what happened was this. This story is so fucking

his cousin was a cop in the 7-3 was bringing home shit they were stealing from the drug dealers. Right. Giving it to Kenny and Kenny was selling it. I have no idea. So one day he says to me Mike, can you help me get a piece of fucking, you know,

eight, big eight, you know, whatever, whatever they want, a half the key. I go, of course I can't. So he goes, okay, anyway, I go to his house to pick up the money and they're there. The cops are everywhere, like playing clothes. So he doesn't know it. I go, Kenny, your fucking house is hot as fucking a pistol. He goes, what do you mean? I go, there's cops all over the place here.

He goes, I just left your house and two cops will follow me. He goes, how do you know there were cops? I said, Kenny, I left your house, I circled the block. They fucking two cops cars was the plane clothes. follow him, he's twisting, going different directions. He says, Mike, they've been following you for five fucking years.

He says, he's probably still following you. I go, I don't know, Kenny, this seemed a little different. P.S., he hangs up. I leave his house. I get a car, go to work, pick up tequila, whatever. He gets on the phone, I don't know this, I'm not there. It comes up later on. And he's on the phone.

His phone's tapped. He's calling the 7-3 precinct to have his cousin run a license plate. The license plate comes back to Suffolk County Police Department. You think he'd fucking tell me. Right. For the next month and a half while they're investigating us, he already knew that Suffolk County PD was following us.

He never told me. He didn't change his act either. He ends up getting arrested. I mean, the things that took place were insane. I get arrested. I get arrested eventually. It was May 6, 1992. Now, that was the fourth day after the fucking they burnt L.A. down.

Three or four days after Rodney King, I guess, they're not guilty trial. Yeah, yeah, not guilty. Not guilty verdict came out. Yeah, and they were burning the city down. They burned in New York City down. They burned breaking everything up. This whole thing, this is sometime in, let's say, March. He was actually under investigation from January, which I didn't know.

I come into the picture sometime in March. I go away to the Cayman Islands. I come back from the Cayman Islands, and I want to set up a little. little bit of an organization where I don't have to do any more work. Just put my money up, let my Dominican friends sell cocaine, and I'm just a part of the business. We end up pulling our money together. But you're still a police officer. Of course. Well, I'm sorry. It was a given. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I told you, I'm not going to, I'm getting out one of three ways. Arrested, injured, or retired, one of the three. So, so I set up this organization where I don't

have to do, just put the money up. So, and it was a, it was a difficult time. It was, round Easter and the price of cocaine doubled. It went from 17-5 to 35,000 a kilo. So our numbers kept moving. And so at this point, I didn't want to lay out all of the money. So I encouraged Kenny to come. Kenny goes ahead and he calls up three of the guys from the 73rd precinct and tells them to meet him to put the money. So now there's three cops from the 73rd precinct, his cousin and two of his... Are putting up money to invest in cocaine. In cocaine business. Of course. Yeah. Of course. And then you have Kenny. So you have three cops in the seven to three, Kenny, myself and my partner. I couldn't

leave my partner out. I didn't need him, but I, you know, he's my partner. If I'm going to be making moves, he's got to get a piece of something, right? So, so how does five of us involved in this fucking kilo distribution ring, right? And some other cop gets arrested for steroids. Anyway, so we had this whole thing set up. It's working like a clock. The first week, we put 54,000 back in our pockets, which, which, um, each. No. So 35 is the investment. Okay. We got back 54,000.

Okay. So the next week, it would be 35 and get something similar. But I was a little annoyed. I wanted to be more. I wanted to double the fucking money. I want 70,000. So the next week it's going to be 70,000, not 54. That's bullshit.

So, I mean, you're fucking selling 20 kilos a fucking day. I got to, you know, I want two. Yeah. So you're flipping yours. I want mine flipped along. This is the truth. This is the way it is. Why should I get double my money?

I give you 35. I want 70. Can we do this? The answer was yes. So don't give me 54. So next week, anyway, next week doesn't come, by the way. So in the interim, Kenny's got to pick up a piece for himself to sell. So now he's got this machine going that I set up, and he's got to pick up a piece.

So I've got to pick up, I don't know, half a kilo or something from somebody in Brooklyn and in the patrol car. I meet him at work. The guy jumps in the back of patrol car. They got me on film. And I'm knowing it. I'm knowing something's wrong. And like something, I'm looking up.

There's an apartment building upstairs, and there's a building over here, a rectory, a church rectory. And I see, like, it looks like there's cameras in these windows. Is this possible? You know, like, when you know, but you say, no, it's not really happening.

No, you still feel untouchable. It's not camera on me. The camera's on somebody else right now. Two cameras, one there, one there. And it's funny because in the Model Commission hearings that was where I testified, they show it. Right. They show those angles from cameras of me getting in and out of patrol car

and the guy jumping in the back of the patrol cars, I drive off. And the funny thing was, he would normally just hear me the shit. I go, keep it low. Like, here I am saying keep it, whoa. Because I know. Yeah. Like, you know, and you know, and there's nothing you can do. Like, you hand in the fucking paperwork in for your fucking fraud,

and this could be the last one. Yeah. And you're knowing it. Like, I'm knowing something wrong. And I was like, keep that thing low. So he hands it, like the seat's brake in the middle. He hands it through me in the seat. And I was so careful to keep it low that the cameras couldn't see it.

And, of course, we're driving, so the cameras are not, they're stationary. Right. I mean, think about what I'm telling you. telling you. I know I'm being filmed in uniform, receiving kilos from a guy that's a Colombian in the... And I just pick it and I... It's good stuff. It sucked, but it was better than nothing. And the price was a premium. I get the shit. I drive around the block. I meet Kenny. I give it to Kenny and there's a car parked behind Kenny. And I see the car. Kenny doesn't see it I see it he goes home with the fucking package I do patrol

and I don't get called like the whole time there's no radio runs for me for two days now there's been no radio runs for me so I've been like I'm on patrol and there's no calls for my sector for two days that ever happened before no never not even a day no no and i'm in a less busy place now right i've gone to rehab and now instead of going back to the seven-five i'm now in the nine-four precinct which is heaven anyway heaven for patrol work like oh my god the cat and the fucking tree type thing you know well the drunk polish guy but in the wrong house they go to the wrong house and it's the same house but it's on the wrong block you know they're a block off and that's that's my night you know so and i'm getting

And no calls. And then all of a sudden we get a call. So, what am I, 9-4-Henry, 9-4-Henry. 10-2, I was like, hmm, 10-2. Why would they call us back to the precinct? And I look at my partner. I mean, we've done nothing wrong here today. We've done nothing wrong here today.

You know, I maybe dropped the care of a kilo. No one's business, you know. You didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody we're good. So I drive back to the precinct But I go the wrong way on a one-way street To the precinct Which is the first time I ever did this

It's just by accident No, something's not right I'm driving to my maker right now And I'm like, something's not right And I see this car To my, as I'm pulling up to the precinct Now the car's facing the train It's one way, car's facing this way

And I'm pulling it up this way And I look And there's two guys sitting in the front seat of the car Plain clothes I'm like that's a little odd huh so I pull in I just had just had gotten two big gulps filled with vodka and seven up absolute big ones like this took a big head off of one I did a couple of bumps was doing good right get out of the car I walk into the precinct and I hear footsteps behind me like I'm like don't turn around this here'd be good this

just can't be good news so I will it's like I know I'm walking in to the end. But you, but you know, there's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do. If it's over, it's over. It's happening. There's no, there's no move you can make during this process that changes anything. No, except get back in the patrol car and drive to Pennsylvania, man. Or Canada.

One of the two. So I'm like, okay. So I woke up to the desk and I go, what's up? So I just said 10-2. And the guy, the son didn't have the desk is like mortified. He goes, go to the captain. and he wants to speak to you, it's set up. This is a setup.

He knows he's setting me up. He just doesn't know what to do. No, there's nothing. He's following orders. So he points, we turn around to go to the captain's office, and up comes these two detectives from internal affairs with their trench coats on and their fucking badges. This is the lieutenant so on and so on, blah, blah, blah.

We're taking you for a department ordered drug test. I'm like, that's all. This is perfect. career ends here right it's over I'm gonna go downstairs and change put my shit on my my civilian clothes go take the piss test fail I can go home didn't work out it didn't work out that way but so I'm getting dressed downstairs now that they order this downstairs this isn't the scene is insane I'm downstairs trying to get dressed and the cop playing clothes detected

is almost humping me he's so close i can't move i'm trying to i go can i am i under arrest i know something's wrong here am i under arrest he goes no why would you say that i said because you're so close to me i can't even i couldn't bend my knee to take my pants off to put my civilian clothes on he goes no so i go well would you back up because now i'm getting pissed would you back up so he goes like this so he went from here to here he gave me like an inch more room holy fuck this is serious

because he's like he's on my shit so now in my pants right is the cocaine that you know because on the right home yeah yeah five grams not the kilo no no that's gone to Kenny he's got that on the island

I'm trying to get dressed can't get dressed now I go to him now now you know something's wrong when I know I go to you think I should take my off-duty's service revolve my wolf duty revolver or leave it he goes ah you can leave it there you can come back and get it later he says to me he's like wow you might be all right i'll be back yeah be back get outside get in the patrol back to the plane closed car and I'm saying I got to get

rid of this cocaine on me so I'm like how am I going to do this so I go I look at I look at there's no handles there's no handles and no windows on the fucking door. So I can't open a window and I can't open the door. So I go, and I turn around and I look at them, I go, I don't know what this is about, but one thing I want you guys

to know is my partner has nothing to do with it. Whatever this is, my partner has nothing to do with it. I want to exculpate this kid because I feel bad. He followed me, you know? And I love the guy. And he's the godfather of my kid.

And if I go down, at least someone can survive this, right? Not. But anyway, don't you worry about him. He's got his own things. Now, he's already been arrested for murder and beat the charge. Okay, so that's why we're together. Because no one will work with him and no one will work with me. So this is so much I skipped to get to this point.

Yeah. So now we're not back of it. So how am I going to get rid of this fucking cocaine? Because, God forbid, I do get pissed. I might get pinched here, right? But God forbid. So you're going to fail the piss test anyway for cocaine. It's going to fucking lie.

up to fucking it's gonna line it up I just took a bump a couple minutes ago so it's good and yesterday and 84 it's good so I go I'm gonna smoke a cigarette they go okay yeah no problem I smoked that cigarette and then I smoked another one right behind it you couldn't there was a layer of fog inside the fucking car you guys can you open a win I want them to open the fucking window I mean it's just like a 15 minute drive from there to the to to Jamaica we were going to go take the piss test they didn't open the fucking window once so I said okay no no problem. When I get out in Jamaica, Jackson Heights is where the left rack city, I was going over the left rec city where the police has their medical office. I mean,

you got to understand, police medical office, okay? Like, maybe have their own medical division, okay? It's like fucking, because there's 35,000 cops. They have a medical division. They have two floors of an office, four floors of an office building with like 700 offices in it. It's just, it's, it's massive. Massive. It's a massive bureaucracy. And so I get out of the car and right there, like, and I turn around and there's a phalanx, a phalanx of brass. If you know what brass means, the guys with the brass on their fucking hats and their band, lieutenants, the cur, yeah, yeah, all the... All the bosses, phalanx of them, all the way from the street, and it's about 40, 50 feet from the street to the entranceway door. Then there's the entranceway phalanx.

there's the hallway phalanxed and the fucking button opens up on the elevator and there's a look up there's a guy with more scrambled legs on his fucking hat than i've ever seen in my career because he was a chief the chief was standing in front of me and a deputy inspector both of them's like this and they just i just got on the elevator and i turned around and i was standing between them i don't know who they are and then the guys that brought me in went up the sort of us in the elevator open up the elevator on the 16th floor i think it was and Sure enough, another half a dozen scrambled eggs on each side, financing me into this. Did you realize at this point this is for you, or are you still thinking this is just as coincidences? Is it overwhelmingly obvious? This is here for me. This is, they're doing this.

I don't want to, I don't, I don't, I don't, I, it hasn't hit me yet. Okay. Yeah. You just think this is weird. This is weird. Yeah. Because I don't know, this, I don't know that this six cops getting arrested. Right. And there's been an ongoing

investigative. Well, you knew there was an Yeah, but kind of, you didn't realize it was this. You didn't realize it was this massive. How long were they investigating you, right? Forever. Right. Right. So for five years, I've been dealing with this shit. It's no big deal. Right. This is fake. This is fake. There's 147 cops

from internal affairs are on my case. And I think I'm seeing shadows. I think it's paranoia. But it's not. It's real. But I'm thinking I'm crazy. So now they're all in uniform, felonx in this place, and they open up the door, and there's this lieutenant who's been after me for fucking four years, because he tried to fucking piss test me out four years ago, or five

years ago, whatever the fuck it was. And he stared at there with this grit on his face, and he goes, okay, Dad, I got you here. There's a whole, with an age, I forget his fucking name on a fucking smack him. Anyway, because he's a prick. He yelled at me one time, get in here now. I just, let me get in here now. I'm sick. He was on sick, leave. He goes, I'm lieutenant so-and-so in charge of health services. And I, and then he goes like this, and I'm ordering this officer, like he pulls the phone away, and I'm ordering this officer to get in here today by noon, and he's saying he's sick. I know you're sick officer. I'm telling you to get, like, he can tell it. I'm telling you to get in here now. He's like,

could you imagine this guy? Dude, all right, I'm on my fucking way. I get there, and they bring me into psych services and I ended up going away to the farm for two years but anyway so he's there now and he's got me he's got to get me to piss because they tried to do it to me before but I fucking beat them see so I beat them and I can't beat this so I'm about to piss

I think I'm gonna piss and go home so I take the piss I'm drunk now because they're fucking drunk now the drink is hitting me and I'm realizing it's just gonna be over it's good like I can go home and just convilch with the family and say what am I going to do now with the rest of my life.

So here I am. The guy's finally got me to take the piss test. I piss in his cup. I'm like, I'm happy it's over. We'll see you tomorrow. You know, have a nice night. And I turn around and then goes, and walks these two other guys into this small cubicle area.

And he goes, Suffolk County detectives. And I go, oh, I do a guy. What's up? You're on the arrest for conspiracy to distribute narcotics. I go, oh, okay. I mean, I just say, the nerve of you. Right. So one of the things is, you know, the newspaper account is,

and he just, you know, turn around matter-factly. I'm going to do a kick and scream and say, go fuck yourselves. I mean, you know, I said, put my hands on my back. They put the cuffs on me. So now they go to search my pockets. Right. And I got that cocaine in my pockets that I couldn't get rid of yet. Fucking the 14 times I tried to move it out.

And the guy goes, oh, look at this. We got out of here. And I go, yeah, I got a little problem. What are you? I go, I got a little of a problem. What else? You know, it's what, you know? So, so, to that, so back in the patrol car,

now they're taking me out to Suffolk County because that's where they're booking me. See, the whole thing here is the city's pissed off. Right. Because they didn't get their guy. The out of jurisdiction got the guy. Right. You're not, because you're not, you know, you're not,

you're in the city, you're not at Suffolk County. I'm not a Suffolk County police officer or anything. And they've had me on their investigation for five years and they couldn't put a pinch on me. But Suffolk County has an investigation for three months, and they got me, you know, because they got me because of Kenny. Well, because of the wires. Kenny didn't give me up.

Yeah. It was wires that got me. And then Kenny, on bail, puts a wire on and then he gets me. People don't know, people don't know how the story actually breaks out. But that's how it breaks out. So anyway, so telling the story is exhausting, you know. And how much should we skip when we tell these stories, right? Like 80% or more of it, right?

In fact, I'm working on getting a screenplay done now because they can't get it down. They've been working on it for five years of screenplay to do a movie, a remake movie of the 7-5 documentary, and they just can't get it. So I've been through the mill with all kinds of involvement with different people in Hollywood. Frank Scott, who did Get Shorty. I never saw It. You never saw It Get Shorty? No, I never saw it. John Travolta.

It's a great movie. The guy who wrote that was supposed to do this. Then it was Scott Gillespie, a guy named Gillespie who did I-Tanya. I don't know, I-Tanya movie with the ice skater girl. The ice skater. Oh, like Tanya for Tanya Harding. Tanya Harding, yeah. Well, wait, real quick, how much time did you get?

I got 14, well, so I ended up getting a 168-month sentence. Okay. You have 14 years. And then you went to prison, obviously. Yeah, I went to prison. I started out in, well, I did MCC for two years waiting to be sentenced. When you got grabbed the first, did you, ever get out on bond? No. From Suffolk County I did. Right. But then when I was out and they set

me up to the feds, no bond. I mean, I could have tried to get bond, but my lawyer's like, dude, you're going to do some time so you might as well start now. Yeah. That's exactly what he said. Yeah, that's true. Right? Unless you're mounting, there's no reason to be out unless you're mounting a defense, like you're trying to go to trial. Well, you can't. So to be fair, I was going to go to trial because the first plea over was 24 to 30 years. and you know what that's like you know I'm like that who the fuck did I kill right you know so so knowing that I was gonna do some time I you know I was shocked to see their first plea they don't call them offers they call them agreements like the

the first plea agreement was for 30 years I said I'm not fucking doing I'm gonna might as well go to try and my little try so so that's what was my approach for the first six months so and then they they knocked it down to like 24 and then they knocked it down to 17. And I still said, you know what, I ain't doing 17 years without going to trial for it. Fuck it.

So I pushed it and pushed it. It probably lasted a little over a year and then the Malin Commission people came to me and said, we'll write a letter to your judge for you if you help us. And so I turned them down twice and the third time they came to me was shortly after they said I did nine murders

in the ghetto. And I'm like, okay, well, this is the newspaper. You know, and still, you know. What, just bullshit? I mean, I know it's bullshit, but I'm saying, where did they come up with that? Somebody said something. They're looking for, there's nine murders that they can't figure out around this period of time when I had a brand new 9mm gun, and they were all 9mm murders.

I mean, at the ghetto, everybody gets killed with a 9mm. Right. But anyway, so they were investigating me and my partner for 9 murders, specifically me, I guess, because Kenny's like a good guy. And so it was all the news. I'm like, listen, I didn't do any fucking murders. Oh, by the way, my own commission called again today. and ask it if you could please, you know, cooperate with them.

And what were they investigating? What was that commission investigating? Their task was to investigate corruption in the city. And basically, systematic like mine was, whatever. And so I drew them a roadmap. I showed them how to do it. They arrested the whole 30th precincty. They called it the dirty 30.

They invested the whole night shift, which is 30 guys on the 30th precinct. We were all in the cahoots. I don't know anybody. I didn't know anybody, but I showed them how to catch me. Something like you might have done to show which companies.

Ethics and fraud thing. Same thing. So I showed them how to catch me. I said, you don't put a sign, look over here for cash. You know, dude, you got to make it. The cop's going to be a little more like surprised or industrious.

Don't make it, don't put a sign. Check on their fucking ice cubes for cash. They're going to check. You don't need to tell them. So don't make it so obvious. So anyway, so I gave him a few points like that and I told them how and how I would do, how I would see a scene and how I would assess it and how I would know I wasn't being set up. So they did what I told them. And they got the whole 30th precinct. They got a couple of the bunch of guys. So now when I went to get sentenced, they wrote a letter to the judge saying that I was honest and helpful. That's all they would say. Was this sentence in the state or the feds? I didn't have got sentenced in the state because they subsumed the superseded. indictment they made it all one right make it a RICO case so I was yeah okay so I got the RICO yeah um so uh yeah okay I got a RICO indictment uh and I pled guilty to it so I

faced zero a lot based 10 to life right at my sentencing and uh did the U S attorney recommend that you get the low end of the guidelines or anything no no no no no he was against everything he was sort of like what you had to deal with when you were through like there was no friend in that courtroom except for the letter and the judge witnessed my testimony and even partly partly to my dismay is some of my sentence like some of the testimony wasn't very wasn't very good you know like I stole money from some some girl like 300 bucks under the Bible the money the money under the Bible I asked the kid is there any hidden hidden money in the house that they might have right and she goes well she's on the phone mom yeah check under the Bible so I find

it yeah yeah it looks like the money yeah it looks like the Burglars got it. Yeah, they got it, imagine. So, you know, that's a real shitty thing to do, you know, but part of my justification, well, we all do shitty thing, part of the justification was. Listen, you don't have to explain to me.

I know, but people that, they hear that, like how the fuck can you do that? Well, you know, I got a partner next to me that's threatening me right now. He's like, you fucking set me up. The last job, there was $11,000 in cash, you fucking missed it, you had it in your hand. I said, take it easy, dude.

I'm not looking for someone's fucking savings. I'm looking for bags of cash like this. Right, right, from drug dealers. Yeah, I'm not looking for a knot of $11,000 that someone saved. That's a lot of fucking, it's a lot of fucking money. I said, no one isn't. Not what I'm looking for, I'm looking for 30, 40, 50 grand in 20s. Not someone's little life savings stack.

Right. So, anyway, so long story short, I ended up the next chance I could get some money, I did. You know, it was a couple, three, four hundred dollars, whatever we took from under the girl's Bible, which was horrible. And for what I'm saying is, when I got. sentence the judge said you know mr. down you know all the things you were very helpful but you know but you know taking at three hundred dollars from the fucking Bible with the girl you know was not a very I said I'm gonna say right

she was she was letting it known that she was aware of that you know yeah yeah that being said they said you were very helpful I was gonna give you a sentence to the top end of your guidelines which were in 15 and a half years she said instead I'm not gonna give you I'm gonna give you right in the middle which was 168 months so so essentially She says the Malin Commission helped me. I'll take her out of word. She could have given me more

because they wanted to give me more. Right. I'm sure they probably would have given me more if I didn't testify with the Malin Commission. But I gave them a hard time in being because I said to them, you don't give a fuck about me or anybody else. I said, you're going to have a bunch of cops kill themselves.

If I testify for a Malone commission, a bunch of cops are going to, sure enough, 17 cops, I think, 8 or 12 cops killed himself right after I testified with a Malin Commission. So she gave me 168 months right in the middle of the guidelines, as she said, because of, she felt that I was instrumental

in helping the New York City Police Department create the changes that they needed to make the improvements that they desired. So it was positive in the end, you know. But it wasn't something that came easy because I was not too, because I was concerned that they didn't give a fuck about people killing themselves, you know, and they didn't.

And they plain out said to me, we don't care. I said, what about their families? Their wives, their children? And the response was, that's too bad. Like, that's, you know, it doesn't enter into the, it's, it's, you know. Yeah, it's just, it's, no, no, nobody. They're expendable to. Listen, the, the U.S. attorneys, and I've seen these guys left and right, like,

you got some low-level crack dealer who gets 15 or 20 or 25 years or 30 years. Right, right. I knew a kid that was 19 years old, home sitting on his couch, his brother comes in, you know, the reverse thing is, comes in and says, bro, I need you we had a guy that was going to drive the car he's not going to drive the car the kid's never been in trouble before says we need you to drive the car right and he goes for what and he's like we know a stash house there's money in the stash house we're going to go money and drugs we're going to rob the stash house right and he's like bro all you can do is drive

the car we're going to run out we're going to come back in it's here and he's like you're doing it's nothing you're not even involved like and he's like so he's come on man I need you And he's like, okay, okay. So he goes, we're going to give you a couple hundred bucks. Okay, so he jumps in the car. He drives. The two guys, the brother and the other guy, jump out of the car to go in.

They don't even get in the stash house. The cars pull up, run out, you know, get on the ground, get on the ground, get on the ground. He doesn't even realize the kid is so scared. He doesn't even realize he goes, I don't even know it's DEA. Right. He said, I think we're being robbed.

He said, they start shooting. I duck down. I hit the fucking gas. he drives forward hits another car then they start shooting at the car he jumps out and runs from the car his brother has already been shot

and killed by the way so they killed his brother his brother of course pulled out they pulled out guns they got shot yeah they got shot the kid starts running they shoot the kid the 19 year old kid blow his from his knee from his leg from the knee

clean off that's gone he hits the fucking ground um well he loses the leg or half the leg, he ends up getting sentenced for his brother's murder. Right. Because you know how it works. It doesn't matter that. Someone dies. You try to murder. Three of us were got, you know, he's like, I was just driving the car. No, you were, you're a conspiracy to break in. It was a reverse thing. There was never any money in the drug house. It was just setting up the brother. Brother brings him. Kids never been in trouble. He pled guilty.

He got 30 years. Because he was going to get life because of the murder. Because of the murder. Murder that I didn't get. You killed him. Doesn't matter. You knew they had guns. You knew what was going on. He gets 30 years. And I guarantee that that kid probably had they not present him with that, he would have never probably ever done anything.

He was just driving. And I'm telling you right now, that U.S. attorney slept like a baby that night. Like, you could have given that kid five or ten years. I'm not saying you shouldn't have gone to prison. You can make you point. Right, right. But that's it. It's over.

Yeah, these guys are. Now the taxpayers have to pay for this. These are heartless. They're heartless people. They really are. But I mean, and that's just, you know that it's over and over and over again. Listen, listen, I want, you know, I hate to be political because my politics, you may not, I mean, they go after this guy Roger Stone because he, because he, because they don't like him. I mean, they're after him again. Yeah, yeah. They're after him again. He's great. He's, I love him because he's crazy. Yeah. He's odd. He's oddball. Yeah. I, I, that's what makes this work around. People like him. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying you can agree with him or disagree with him, but there's no. They got 28 fucking guys going after a guy because he fucking. He's fucking. fucking, he signed his name rule on a form?

Yeah. I mean, they're all over him. I also wanted to mention that it's funny because whenever I say anything about the U.S. attorney, look, let's face it, 99% of the inmates that,

they're guilty. They're guilty. You know, the sentences are just draconian. They're outrageous. They're insane fucking long sentences. Well, they're designed to make people cooperate. Right, of course. That's the reason.

But if you're the last guy on the totem, Paul, You're just done. You're done. You got nothing. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing, you know, and look, let's face it, mostly you've been to prison. You don't want, I don't want to live in the neighborhood with these guys. No, no.

Like, these are not nice guys. No, no. Most, yeah. Yeah. But you see, I mean, the murders are the nicest guys in the joint. Yeah. Normally. They are.

Yeah. And they're the low recidivism rate. That's as far as once they get out. Yeah. They never kill anybody. Yeah. Very seldomly does somebody get out and kill somebody again. No.

No. No. No. No. No. Yeah, but that's a far and few in between. Most guys, it's an accident, or they did kill somebody. Right.

But they're not, you know. Yeah, but most of the guys involved in the drug. It's so horrible. The drug trade brings violence. Of course. He's a great guy. But, you know, yesterday he killed three people. I mean, but meanwhile, he's making love to, and he's raising kids.

He's loving this woman, or three of them, and he's raising kids. I mean, it all is a perspective, you know. He has a great daddy. yeah so just not a good just not a good business guy so right now there's a documentary you can't you refer to it as a movie a few times but it's a documentary right correct that you're hoping gets turned into right so right now ben stiller has uh the uh been signed on to be the director so it's it's this this is now five years in the making okay right so it's gone through several It's gone through several, like Gillespie who directed Itan, I think.

Anyway, and another two or three directors have had it, and now Ben Stiller has it, him and a few people. It's, it's, they can't get, they can't get the story right for film. I got the story of the film because I know, I mean, just picture the scene of all these fucking scrambled legs. It's like fucking blind a day I got arrested. And that's, you can start in the beginning. or the end of the middle. That could be the middle of the movie because the beginning of my movie

is when I come home from prison. That's fucking heavy. Right. I mean, think about the day you got released. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm going to give you a scenario and we'll end on this because there's so much we can talk about.

Coming home from prison, right? So we'll end on this. I come home from prison with much to do, by the way. Newspapers, all this other shit. Bullshit. What year? 1999, no, 2004.

April, I think, 2004. You think I'd remember the date, but I don't. I think it was April 13th, but I'm not sure. Right. So, because that was the only day I slept. That was the, that was a, I shouldn't say only, I slept every day, but the first day I overslept in my entire prison fucking time was the last day.

They had to wake me up. Like they knocked up, they want your shit. Yeah. The guys are waiting for your shit. You want your sweatpants, your snaker, your cups, your fucking, you know. You give away your stuff. I don't need my prison sweatpants and my sandals. Yeah, you need that.

You take, you get it out on the way out. So, yeah, so they have to wake me up. So I slept like a fucking log, I guess. And so when I, when I get home, after a couple days at the halfway house, you get a pass to go see your family. So I had a four-hour pass to go see my family. So the scene is fucking unreal. I'm going to my parents.

Now, I'm a man who had four homes. And a condominium on the ocean in Myrtle Beach. I had money out of every pocket. You know, it's led to live life. And here I am, I got nothing. And I look, I'm going to take a shower. I just want to take a shower. I want to take a shower where no one's standing out the door.

You know, when no one's waiting for me to get out. You know, I just, I want to get my own little fucking thing. So I look out the window, and there's my brother's two kids who I don't even know their fucking names. I don't even know their names. But, and it hit me that the world has passed me by. Oh, yeah. It's passed me by.

I don't think I belong here. So I go to get in the shower. This is fucking, you know, 12 years in prison. I get in the shower and it lets go. I don't know if the fucking tears or the water is wetting me. I'm so fucking just everything's coming out. I'm crying so hard that I'm saying to myself, you are crying so fucking hard right now.

And it just didn't stop. I mean, I don't take, three minutes shower. I'm in, and out, fine, got to go, things to do. 20 minutes in the shower with this fucking water hitting me and tears hitting me and I'm not sure if it's the tears or the water. And I'm thinking the whole world has changed. And I'm not really ready for this. I don't know what to do.

I don't know where to begin. I went to prison. I was picking up $54,000 the day before I went in, you know. Was I going to Myrtle Beach or the Bahamas this week or Vegas that week? you know, and here I am. I don't even have money for a sandwich if I walked out the door. And I didn't want to be,

I wanted to go back to prison. Oh, absolutely. I wanted to go back. Because I didn't even know how to walk across the street. I didn't have to cross a street. It was fucking, I was like, and then the fucking press following me, I didn't want to fucking, like when the hand goes up

to walk across the street, you stop, go, walk. I didn't want to break the fucking rules. But not because I could give a fucking. about walking across the street illegally, but these motherfuckers take a picture. Dowd breaking the rules already. I mean, this is... Anyway, so that's how I lived it,

but we come a long way right now. I'm still working on my book, which is forever. I've probably written four times now, different people. Had writers come on, legit writers, guys that have four or five books. I don't know what happened. They had treatments together.

Then they say, oh, that story's been told. Really? You told my fucking story? Who told my story? They don't, you know, so I don't know what's going on. And then, so, yeah, a lot of stops and starts. And, you know, you know, it takes forever. It takes a long time, and there's no one really reaching out, you know.

No one's, like, looking to help you, you know. I lost a job making $100,000 a year because this documentary came out about my life. So it's been a lot of stops and starts, but the good thing about it is, overall, I'm okay. I'm okay. Life is good, you know? Yeah. And you heard me say that, like, I hear people complain all the time. And I'm like, it's fucking amazing out here.

All I have to do is remember laying in my bed, my bunk in prison. Anytime I start to feel stressed out or upset about something, I immediately just go, what are you doing, bro? You live out of a three foot by 18 inch by 20 foot or 20 inch locker. With a tuna, you were fucking big road. Right, right. Exactly. Like, this is good.

And the worst day out here is better than the best day in person. It's all good. Yeah. It's okay. I lived in someone's spare room for over a year. An ex-girlfriend. An ex-girlfriend's spare room with her two kids and her husband. I live in my ex-girlfriend's house right now. And she don't want to get rid of me. Yeah. Because I'm good to her. There's nothing intimate. Yeah, yeah. You know, my girlfriend and her are friends. My girlfriend comes from Canada. She flies in. She stays at my girlfriend's house with me.

Yeah. And right now we're in Clearwater staying in a condo. Yeah. My new girl, my, my chick Jess would stay. in the spare room with me at my ex-girlfriend's house not that there's anything there but yeah she Stacy loves me

I help take out the garbage I put up shelves I change light bulbs I do whatever she's got a guy around she trusts and her husband loves me because I put up the light bulbs

I change your shelves oh the groceries where's Matt yeah yeah right I'm watching this you know so it works yeah but it's it's so good out here

keep my bills small now and it's funny like dead broke now like most of my barely making my bills every month, never been happier. Didn't realize how unhappy I was with money. Chasing it.

Until I had no money. Exactly. And realizing. This is good. This is a good life. I keep my shit small. I stay within my means. I don't need to go to the Bahamas this weekend.

I'd like to. If someone wants to send me a fucking ticket, go right ahead. Otherwise, I'm not going. People are like, oh, you don't care about money. Let's not get crazy here. I'm not an idiot. I want to make money.

Oh, yeah. But I know that it doesn't really mean that much. If I never, if I never do better than I'm doing right now, I'm good. I'm okay. Yeah, I have nothing to complain about. Right, right. Yeah. I like more, but I don't really want more or need more.

Right. I'm not willing to do anything to do everything over the line to get it. It's not necessary. Right. It's not necessary. It's just too, it's too good out here. But thanks for having me in. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Your story's interesting as well. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. But I did finish my book, Shark in the housing pool. You can buy it on Amazon. Yeah, is it? Okay. Yeah, bro, you got a, you got,

you should throw me a copy for coming here. I actually will. I'll grab one. All right. So, that's it. So if you like the interview, if you like the channel, subscribe, hit the like the like button, share the video, leave a comment for the algorithm and I'll see you. The Mike Dowd. The Mike Dowd. Instagram, Twitter, and Mike Dowd, or Michael Dowd on Facebook. So say hello, leave a message. Follow. Actually, yeah, and I'll put all the, if you send me the links, we'll put all the links in the description too. Good. And that's it.

And good luck with getting the movie made. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about Larry and the whole thing. All right. See you.