Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - One of the FBI’s Most Wanted Cops Was Finally Arrested

Episode Date: April 27, 2026

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I had no consequences. I'll just be quick to punch you or feel piss right in yourself. Because in order for a facility to run smoothly, you can't be by the book. A lot of inmates were getting airlifted out. But this is where my downfall came. I applied. And literally, I got the job, like, on the spot. Like, you can start, like, three days later.

It's, it's fast. Wow. That's insane. Yeah. And the background check was, like, basically nothing. If you have a heartbeat and you're okay, you're talking and you have a heartbeat, Department of Craigs is to take it. Okay.

Where did you end up? Like how long before you actually went in? Was there any training at all? Like, or is it on the job training? So this is how Florida does it. I don't know about the other states. I know that federal doesn't do this. So when you get hired, literally they put you onto a shift.

So I started working night shift on this one shift. So seven at night. This is on the job training. It's unbelievable. But they don't even give you anything to protect yourself. You don't even know any policy. They don't even give you a radio. You just have what they call a panic button hitting the deuses.

Yeah, the deuce is. And if that even works, because it's supposed to pick up to the closest alarm of the dorm or if you're like in medical or something. Right. And all the guards are supposed to come immediately to run to help you. Right. You ever know policy or you're just hang out, you're just on the job training until you're eventually on your own? Right. So you stay there.

It could be a month. It can be up to six months before they send you to the academy. So this whole time you're working, they'll tell you, oh, go do body searches. You know, you have to do pat down or go do a cell search. It's like, what am I looking for? I don't even know. You don't know what you're doing. I got lucky because I got assigned to one of the sergeants that was, you know, you know,

was in charge of the gang unit. And the gang unit is called STG, security threat group. That's basically a gang unit. And he liked me. And he was letting me do a lot of things that a TEA, which is, as soon as you get hired, you're not a certified officer, so they call it a TEA. The inmates will call you a new cock. Right.

But the staff will call you a TEA. And a TA is not even supposed to be on his own. supposed to be strictly in the dorm just pressing buttons, letting people in, or if you do like cell searches and stuff, you're supposed to be able to a certified officer. It's supposed to. Right. Because you don't have handcuffs, you don't have pepper spray, you don't even have a radio. Okay.

But I got lucky and I got to roll with one of the sergeants that was in charge of the whole gang unit. And at the time, it was only him and a captain. And that captain worked day shift. So the captain would do all the STG things in the daytime, and he was in charge of it at night. You know, whatever the captain would tell him to do, he would have to do and go talk to a certain inmate or go lock an inmate up or something. So back then I was, you know, working out a lot. I was a lot bigger than when I am now.

So he was a smaller guy. And he had a respect from the inmates, but I also noticed that he was too cool, like trying to be your friend. And there's nothing wrong with being friends and friendly and make a joke here and there. Right. But you're not going to let them dictate to you what they're going to do. Right. You know what I mean? Like you dictate to what they're going to do.

You're in charge here. And it's not a power thing. It's just a respect thing. I have the badge. You don't. I work with you. I'll compromise with you. But you're not going to ever tell me what to do.

Yeah. You're not going to say, no, no, I'm not doing that. I'm going to go do this over here instead of it says, no. Right. And he would go for it. Because part of STG is keeping the peace, too. It's identifying the gangs, making sure, you know, they don't cross paths with the other gangs, stop contraband, either drugs or cell phones or whatever the contraband is at that time, right? Okay.

So it is part of keeping the peace, right? But you're too friendly. They just walk all over you. Right. So I learned a lot from him, you know, but I also dissected what I didn't like. I seen him do. And I never told him this. Yeah.

But I'm just watching because from that moment when I worked with him and he was letting me do things that I'm not even supposed to do, I knew I wanted to do that. And I wasn't going to stop. That's what I wanted to do inside of working in the prison. So I got to experience and get my name out there by doing a lot of things. Like, he would even let me fight some inmates because they would disrespect me to him. Right. Like, I looked at it as a racial thing, right? Because they said Cracker.

Right. I'm from New York. Like, we don't, like, we don't even use the word cracker like that unless you're trying to insult someone. Oh, you know? But here in Florida, they say Cracker. Yeah, it's not really an insult. Yeah, it's not really an insult here.

So then I would say something to him, and he would say something back. And next thing you know, now, now we have an issue. And he wouldn't, like, he would be so nervous. He's like, he'd be like, and then I'll be like, no, this is what's going to happen. and we would, you know, settle a lot of problems. It's insane, bro. It is insane. Yeah.

But it got me the respect from the inmates, too. And I'm not sitting here and say, oh, I beat everyone's ass. Yeah. No, not at all. You know, I didn't care if I got, or if you got off on me or if I got off on you. It was a respect thing. Yeah, I was going to say, it's what you definitely really, really honestly, you realize this in high school. Like, some, it's really, it's more about being willing to fight.

it is actually winning the fight. Of course, you want to win the fight. Nobody wants to get their asspey. Right. But it's so much worse if you just don't fight. You'd rather fight and lose than to not fight at all. Then it's much, much worse than everybody disrespects you. And that goes for officers too, because now officers, they talk reckless sometimes, right?

So when an inmate talks reckless back, you can't be quick to lock them up and put him in the shoe. Because you open that door to disrespect him. He didn't disrespect you first in that situation. You know? And now everyone's going to just respect you. Now, good luck trying to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish as a correction officer. It's not going to happen when you don't have the respect. Right. And I didn't go the best route, obviously, which landed me in federal prison as an inmate myself.

I could have went about it a different way, but you still, I still gained the respect in a way. And that's, you know, we're men at the end of the day. You're an inmate. I'm an officer, but you're still a man at the end of the day. I have a job to do. It's your job to do what you do and get away with it. And it's my job to catch you. And when I catch you, there's no hard feelings.

And if you get away with it for a long time, there's no hard feelings. It's the nature of the beast. So what happened when you, did you end up going, you go to the academy? Do you go to the academy? Yeah, three months later, I go to the academy. Okay. But by that time, I'm already being recruited onto STG. from the captain, which is unheard of.

You know, I'm not trying to like, to my horn here, but, like, you need to have years before you can get on it. Because it's a very small unit, right? And being with that sergeant and doing what I was doing with the gang stuff, a lot of officers, you know, it's like gossip. It's like high school.

Prisons like gossip. The inmates and officers, everyone talks. So I was being recruited for the SRT team, which is basically SWAT. It's like emergency service. you know, if inmates riot or anything like that. Yeah, cell extraction, that sort of thing, right? Well, each shift has their own cell extraction team.

Okay. But not if there's a riot where the cell extraction team can't handle it, you know, they'll call in, or if they have like a kite that came in that an amate trying to escape, or there's going to be a gang fight, or there's going to be a riot or whatever. that has to do it. That's not in the means of the staff that's there that day or that shift. They'll call us. Okay.

So they give you an state issued phone. You always have to have that phone on you. You can't live more than 30 miles away. If you go away, you have to get approval from your commander that you're going away because they need to know if they're a man down. So I was re-recruited before I was even in the academy. So once I went into the academy, all these guys, and even the warden, the colonel, like, you know, we call it white shirts, brass, warden will come, all talk to me. They came and watched me get pepper sprayed.

If they made it worse, it made it worse because they made me go last. So the whole time in the academy, you have to, you know, run and do exercises, open up your pores. Right. And then usually they just go a little, like right here, and then you have to open your eyes, and then you have to do like hit the bag, then you have to run to the next bag, elbow it, then knee it. After being pepper sprayed? Right.

And then you have to take one of the officers they have as a, you know, that's like a dummy, and he has to like resist a little bit, and you have to throw him on the floor and put the handcuffs on them while you're using the radio to the control room to let you know, backup. I need backup. Right. They try to make it stressful. Yeah. It's really a joke, but you have to make it stressful. But since I had all these guys on higher spots that all came for my spray day, they made it worse.

Like, I was sweating. I was exhausted from running because there's like 30 kids in a class. So the whole time, they're making me run to pushups, burpees. You know, they're working me out. They were like, oh, you want to be a part of SRT. We're going to make you work for it. And then they were using the MK9. MK4.

It's the smaller can of pepper spray. Okay. Right? But they used the MK9 on me, and that's what only sergeants have. And it's like a, they call it black Jesus. Right. Why? Because you're going to see black and you're going to be crying for Jesus.

That's how bad it is. It's like, it's bad. They call it black Jesus. So you're supposed to have your eyes closed, but they were messing with me, and they were like, they were like, yo, and I opened up my eyes, and they sprayed me. Bad. bad and then they have like these like headed like bats and they were all just like beating this shit out of me when I had to do all these like little obstacles right but it was fun it was a good

it was a funny experience but it was definitely a little rough so I mean did you end up on that yeah right away soon as I passed the academy which is like three months approximately three months and you pass the state certification test because you have to pass a test for the academy And then you got to pass a state board. It has nothing to do with the prison. It has to do with, you know, FDLE, Florida Department and Law Enforcement. Okay. Then you're officially a certified officer.

So. How much? What is, what does the officer make the first year? And this seems like a lot of fucking shit and a dangerous job. It is dangerous. So what do they make? Nothing. Right.

$34,000. I was going to say, I know that I think federal, the first year, like the feds, they're like 35 or 38,000 or just like it's very little money. But it goes up more in the feds. Right. Like a captain here in Florida makes maybe $50,000. Hmm. Okay. It's, yeah, you don't make anything.

Okay. Really, if you do it, it's to be a, it's a stepping stone to go to maybe county where you make more money or a police department, maybe FBI or something. Yeah, yeah. It's law enforcement. It's an entry. it's an entry bar into law enforcement. It's an entry. If you stay there,

there's a lot of people that stay there and they don't even want to promote up to sergeant, lieutenant. And it's only a 7% increase. So if you're an officer and you want to be a sergeant, it's only 7% from that salary. But it is a state job

that you can retire from in 20 years. You know what I'm saying? So it is not like there's not a pension that comes with it. Correct. But I don't know how much that pension is. And you have good benefits, but to me it's not worth wasting

your whole career. or staying in that. It's a toxic environment, too. Yeah. Toxic from the inmates and it's toxic from staff too. Well, I mean, I know guys that would go into, they'd go into the military at like 17, right? Because your parents can sign off, like 17. Go for 20 years, retire, go into law enforcement for 20 years, retire.

And then they were working on their third. Now, they're all, they're in their like 50s. But then they go in and they're working for like the BOP. Right. And you're like, well, you're working on your third fucking, your third pension right now. Which is genius. Yeah, if you can stay that course. Right.

If you can. That's a few and far in between it. Right. I definitely wasn't making it on my course. I definitely would have loved to try. But no, it's a job, you know? It depends on what you make of it, too. But it is a very toxic.

It takes a toll on you. Right. You know, it takes a toll on you. It's not just inmates that you have to worry about, too. The staff is very toxic, too. Yeah. You know? You don't have, like, the highest education.

You know, people that are working there. You don't, very rarely will you see someone with a master's or even a bachelor's school work there. Yeah, no, I mean, you could tell. And this was, and this was the BOP, but they were just, they were constantly, like we talked about before, they were, these guards are fighting in the fucking parking lot. Like they're like, I'll meet you out fucking back. You know, I'll meet you in the parking lot as soon as your shift gets, right. And they go out and they get into fist fights. Like the guys would come back with, you know, both eyes are blackened or they would, they would,

be in screaming matches on the rec yard. They would, you know, one guy closes a compound. Then they open it back up. Then the other one closes the compound. And you're like, what's going on? Then they guys are practically yelling on the radio. Like, I said the compound, it's close. One guy's saying it's open.

One guy saying it's close. Like, you find out these two guys hate each other. Guards are female guards are fucking one or two of the fucking COs that they hate each other. That's where most of the fights come from. It's who's banging who. Right? That's where a lot of the fights come from. They're not even banging them yet.

They just see a new officer come in and they're trying to claim a. And they're fighting. Like, what are you doing, bro? Yeah. What are you doing? One of these inmates is going to be at the bang up before you do anyway. So what does it matter? I was just say, what was the one thing that happened?

Oh, I know what it was. There were, there had to be whatever. I don't know how many guards there even were at the low. I'm thinking the low. I would say there were at least four or five guards that we were. clearly on like oxies like they were clearly on like they had an addiction problem and it was you know they're nodding off in the you know in the um the little their little office and you know whatever it's like and in i go i don't know but i got you got the other inmates go no brother too he's got he's got

i'm trust me i know i was addicted they're like and they would say this he's fucked up or she's messed up or and then you find out later they'll send them to detox like they'll send them to a rehab for a cover up yeah and then come back and they start over again. Yeah, it happens. There was his one officer when I first started. He was actually a sergeant and he would come drunk. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've heard that too. Like I'm never, I was never close enough, but the other, the guys that would work with them, like at rec, you're working right beside the COs, right? Or if you're in commissary, like you're, right there. The COs right here with two or three of them and they could smell the alcohol.

Or was it this one, there was a, like a lieutenant, a fee. Lieutenant who was harassing one of the COs. And it was so bad that at one point she had got pulled over for like a DUI and she texted him at like 11 o'clock at night or so. So the cop pulls her over, but they're like, look, call somebody to come get you. Like, I'm not going to arrest you. Right. Or to leave your car here, but somebody's got to come get you. She, the guy she was harassing, She texts him at like, whatever, 11, 12 o'clock at night, and she tells him, and keep in mind, now you're laying in bed with your wife. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night or all of the above.

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And he looks, and of course, his wife is who's texting you at 1130 or 12, 1230 at night and looks at the phone. And she's saying, come get me. I got pulled over. They're not going to be, I need you to come get me. And he's texting back like, no, I'm in bed with my wife. And she comes back and she says, if you come get me, I'll give you a blowjob. And that's when his wife's like, let me see your phone. And he's like, fuck.

So he'd been trying to try and. just push it down like from everybody i heard the rumor i heard was that he wasn't fucking her he was trying to get her to leave him alone right he'd actually transfer to another fucking put in for like a transfer to another because there's five prisons in coleman right but he's trying to get out of the pin and go to like the medium where she's not wife sees it wife basically says you're going in tomorrow and filing a complaint on this woman or i'm packing my bags and leaving you and i'm taking your kids that's terrible He should have just hit it then.

Yeah. It would have been better up if I'd been thinking her. So, yeah, the next day, he filed an official complaint. And everybody was like, bro, like, they're trying to sweep it under the rut. He's like, I can't. My wife, she's gone. He's leaving my, if I don't file the complaint. And he's got all the texts.

That's a career changer for both of them. They took her from the pen and they transferred her to the low and she was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. I don't know how she survived at the pen. I'm surprised they didn't stab her. the pen. She was such an asshole. But that was, and everybody, and here's the funny thing, too, is, like, everybody knew it. Like, all the staff were talking about what was going on. Like, it was a blatant thing. But it was the whole thing. It was, it was the overwhelming gossip.

Right. That two guards are banging this chicken who's running commissary. They call her commissary Barbie. And she, listen, and honestly, like, she was a, she was a prison nine. You know, she was a free world six, maybe a five, but she looked good. I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. And of course, the guys working with her, no, she's banging two of the guards. And she's married. And they're like, oh, that marriage is done.

It's only a matter of time. And sure enough, like within a year, she's divorced. One of these guys is divorced. I mean, guys are fighting each other in the parking lot. It happens all the time. It's literally, it's like a college frat. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah, it is horrible.

It's entertaining for the inmates, though. They're like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And the officers, they don't realize when they talk, there's always an eminent around. Oh, yeah. They say one thing. It spreads like wildfire. And by the fourth inmate, it's twice as bad of what you said.

Oh, it's twice as bad. Because they're like old women. But they know where you hang out on Friday and Saturday nights. They know what school your kids go to. Yeah. They know what kind of car you have. They know you just got some new jet skis. They know everything.

Yeah. I mean, I literally would have the inmates would be like, yeah, yeah, Thompson just bought two fucking jets skis. Yeah, yeah. He said, you know, it's funny too because like last week he was talking about how fucking strapped he was and he was having to work a 20 or 30 hours worth of overtime and yet this motherfucker just went on Boggajski's. Can you believe that? And I'm sitting there thinking

how the fuck do you know all of this? It's unbelievable and it's gossip on both parts. They'll know everything. Right. They'll know your dirty little secrets. You're sitting there talking, thinking that no one's, there's an enemy right here. There's a fly on the wall. Everyone's watching, everyone's listening. But it is entertaining.

I never really had a interaction like that where I had a problem with that. I don't really like to shit where I You know, sometimes, you know, obviously we're men will be tempted, right? But at least in the state, half the female staff there, there's rough, but they always, they have a thousand inmates that are giving them love, you know? Because half of these girls, they don't get the love on the outside. No one's telling them that they're beautiful every morning.

No one's telling them that they smell good. It may be able to say the cornyest thing, but it works. Next thing you know, she's quitting her job, and next year when he gets out, she's picking him up. Yeah, that's, that's, you know, it's funny how common that is. It's very common. Like, guys will get out and hook up with the, like, they'd really been, we did the, remember we did the interview with the guy. There was an inmate that was flirting with the guard, which is already he was like,

was dangerous. Like, that could have gone bad. Yeah. He was concerned. Like, he was like, you know, we really shouldn't have had a friendly of a relationship. It's called establish on a relationship. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, what happens is she was telling him, I'm leaving. Like, she was actually leaving. She was going to go be a dental hygienist. Do you remember the guy I'm talking about? He put the, he has the company now that puts the TVs. Yeah. So he leaves, so she leaves like only a month or so before. And he actually asked her her full name.

Because when I get out, maybe I'll look you up. He was, what's your full name? He was right there. And he said, I could have gone straight to shoot. Like, he was, it was a ballsy move. Yeah, very bossy. And she said, she was like, look me up on Facebook. Here's my name.

He gets out. He looks her up. They start dating. They got married. They've been together for like five years. They've got a successful company together. And, hey, that's, that's a success story. But it doesn't happen very often.

Right. Next thing you know. Usually it's a nightmare. Next thing you know, she goes to work and everything's gone in her house. Yeah. Or she shows up and gets escorted off the. Well, that's embarrassing. I've seen that.

Yeah. I've seen it, too. It's funny. We had one time a chick, her name was Miss Brown. This was when I was at the medium. I'd only been there like a year. And there was a, guy, I don't forget his name, it wasn't Jimmy, but it was something kind of silly like

like Bobby or Billy or, you know, something silly, right? But I'd be honest, he looked like he stepped out of a, the, a GQ magazine. Like, you just, this guy didn't look like he should be locked up. I mean, no, I think he did have one tattoo. Anyway, whatever. And Miss Brown should not have been in the medium. I mean, she was, she was, she was a, she was a free world. Ten. She was a, no, she was a prison 10. She was a free world eight. Like, she looked, good, bro. And sure enough, if old, you know, whatever Bobby or Jimmy or whatever his name was, wasn't flirting with her and doing that. And then one night he gets drunk. He's in her office sitting on her desk and she's in there, you know, curling her hair and we're all like,

how long is this last? Like, but I'm surprised that because the animates will tell. That's what happens. That's what happens. I think, I want to say a week, maybe two, listen, one, she would do like the, after 10 o'clock time, you know, they come around again. and we got doors. You know, they count like every hour or two. She would come by after she counted, go up to his door, and they would sit there and talk through the door for hours. At one point, she got to a point where she would open the door,

he'd go upstairs and they'd talk in the room within a week escorted off the property. 100%. There was a librarian. She had to be 70 years old. I wouldn't touch this if it was a last moment on earth. No, not happening. Right. Well, this guy who was an orderly, and I don't even know how he was an orderly there because he had a life, right?

And it's like an area where it's kind of close to the front gate. So I don't even think he should have been there. But anyways, and he had HIV. Well, an inmate got upset that he was banging like this 70-year-old Liberian lady and told staff, and she got escorted off the compound with. with that thing. So, I mean, she's 70. Yeah.

By the time affects she's gone anyway. But, but it happens so often. You know, there was this one inmate that I was very, not close with, but I had a good relationship with him.

He was a Nyeta, and I would have to deal with some of the Nietas at that time. And I, at that time, I had free range of where I can put inmates and what jobs and stuff. So I was very close with classification. And that's who actually determines on what housing unit you're going to, what job you have, etc.

But I had a lot of leeway and a lot of pull on. Hey, I want this and me here, please. I want this inmate here, please. So I would run all of it. So I ran the barbershop, grounds, outside grounds, the kitchen. Any major job laundry, any major job I was really in control of that. as that was my secondary duty besides being a gang sergeant. Because at that time, I wasn't working a dorm.

I was in charge of the gangs and running, like, you know, everything I just mentioned. So I was cool with him. So I put him into the kitchen as the head storage guy. You know, that's a high political spot to have. Right, because you can steal out of the... And you're in the storage room where everything is where it's locked up. Right. You know, and only you can go in there and the officer and the civilian lady.

Right. So I would go in there and eat. I never brought lunch. Let me just make that. If anyone complains about the state food, stop complaining. I ate it for all those years. I worked at. I would never bring lunch.

And I love the peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, by the way. So I was in there and he was making, every day he would make me the peanut bun and jelly sandwich. And I noticed that the civilian lady, and she was a prison three. Right. But he's in there for a long time. And I noticed her, she's sitting down on a box against the wall. And she's like, like this. And like I said, I was pretty close with this.

Like, we were pretty close. We beat up a couple inmates together, like together. And he would, you know, help me out with his gang because they were kind of, they weren't really prominent like that, but they were some serious dudes at the time. And I noticed he's like this. And I look at him. And he looks at me. smiling. I said, give me my damn sandwich, man. I got to get, I got to get the fuck up out of here before I'm involved in any of this shit. So I knew he was banging out. I didn't say anything. I didn't really care, to be honest with you. They were going to get caught eventually. I think he got transferred something else, but it happens all the time. It's actually pretty entertaining.

Yeah, I was going to say, too, what about the familiarity? I knew. I actually wrote a book about a guy who when he got to prison, He got there and he's like within a couple days He was walking in the child hall He looks up and he sees One of his friends from high school's older brother He's a CEO As an officer As an officer

And he looked up and he saw him And he looked up and he was like Hey he goes And turns his head and walk keeps walking So he said like later on that day He was walking and he saw him And he gets he said he's hey he's inmate come here And he's like hey man what's going on

He says he's coming and he like Search him and he goes listen man He said, if you fucking tell anybody that you know me, they're going to ship you, not me. 100%. He said, I'll look out for you, but that's all I can do. Don't fuck you is don't tell any friends. Don't tell your roommate. Don't tell you don't know me.

You don't know me. He told him, he gave him a little. He said, don't get comfortable with somebody to say, oh, I know this guy. He said, I'm telling you right now. He said, everybody hears talking. Everybody hears a snitch. They'll all tell on you. They'll all tell on everybody.

And you'll get fucking shipped. He's your mom ain't going to fucking be able to see you if they ship you to, because his mother would come see him. Right. And that's, you know, they hold that over you, right? So they're going to ship you to fucking, you know, Kansas or something. And she ain't going to be able to see you. And you got fucking five more years or six years. So anyway, he was like, so he was leaving.

By the time I was writing his book, he, like, yeah, yeah, you know, so and so. He's, you know, he's fucking his brother's here. And he told me. But that had been five years later, five, six years later, he's about to leave. But I was going to say one more thing is that there was a black chick that was a CEO. She was a bigan. She was a big. There's a big.

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He's in her office all the time, flirt and talk. And he's telling people, yeah, I went to high school with her. We're cool. And he's flip. Listen, it wasn't a week pack. He's on the pack out and get shipped. Yeah. And everybody was like, bro, don't tell anybody that.

What are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing? It's necessary, though, because he's not doing it maliciously, right? Yeah. He's just running his gums, right? Yeah. But it's dangerous for her. because if she has a problem with his inmate

and now that guy that inmate starts talking to him he can know where she lives he can know where our mother is you know a lot of these dudes are serious dudes especially in the feds yeah you know they get your family knocked off or they yeah or they you know

imagine now his cousin or brother or friend can go to her house right and say hey can you bring a cell phone just Jimmy that's all give you a grand, you know, and that's how it starts, right? Like it's a friend of us, you know, or it's a way, yeah, that's a way into.

Think about it. You bring in, you bring in two cell phones a month and they're not searching you. They bring in two cell phones a month. That's an extra $24,000 a year on top of your $35,000. Like, you're now making a, that's a, that's, you're close to $60 grand a year. More than what you're making. Yeah, that's a lot. That's just a couple of cell phones.

It's tempting. It is tempting. It is. And that's nothing. You know what I'm saying? Like, let's face it. two cell phones is nothing compared to what some of these guys could rake in if they bring in a hundred percent and it happens all the time and mostly it does come from the guards

yeah listen to this tell me how funny this is the recruitment for florida department of corrections they don't go to the local high schools they don't go to the local colleges to the criminal justice to um degree departments you know right you know where they put up signs just take a wild guess where they put up signs to advertise it. The parking lot on visitation day. Really? You can't make it up. I can't even make that up. I wonder why that, why is that, though?

I think it's because they're all like literally, like, retarded. Well, there's no other way. What makes you think? I'm not the smartest person, believe me. I'm not. Okay. Right? But I already know if I'm going to recruit, I'm going to put up signs on the

highway, right? Yeah, I'm going to go to the college, the criminal justice degree department. I'm not going to go visitation day where it makes families are coming and put up signs now hiring. Yeah. It's mind-boggling. If you walked into a dorm and you were blindfolded, right, and you heard the officers talking and you heard the inmates talking, you wouldn't know the difference. Yeah. Yeah. They had the same basic types of interests. They had. They had the same basic types of interests. They have the same, you know, they have the cell. That's how they talk. They talk the same. Listen, a lot of these guys were,

were like, you know, some of the COs were in gangs growing up. Some of them were. Yeah. Right. And there's nothing wrong with that if you change your way, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm not saying, but I'm saying, that's something that the, I mean, you're saying that, but let's face it, whoever's running the BOP or the state, those prisons, like, they wouldn't want you to have been in a gang.

You know what I mean? They would be like, oh, I don't think we want a guy that was a former gang member to be in a car. If they had a choice, but since it's so, like, little people that actually want to do it. Yeah. You know, I'm no better. I was all, I was on the line. You know, I don't even know how I got that job either, you know.

So I'm not saying, saying I'm perfect, you know, that, look at what I did, right? But they're definitely the qualification. And the way you just recruit should be, you know, a little better. That's, it's not a good way to get the right type of people up in there. Well, so, so you were, were you running the, why can't I remember the name of this? I just want to say the gang unit, but STG. STG. Were you running STG at this point or were you just underneath the other guy?

So I was underneath him even when I get out of the academy. Okay. And then he- I assume that, yeah. And then he transfers, not even a full year, transfers to another institution to become a captain or a lieutenant. And you can skip only one rank when you, and you can only skip lieutenant. So if you're a sergeant, you want to promote up to the tenant and then be a captain,

you don't have to be a lieutenant. That's the only rank that you can skip and become a sergeant than a captain. Okay. Because there's only two to three lieutenants on shift for that whole prison. There's not many. It's not like every shift needs a captain. It's only like two or three departments that need a lieutenant. Okay.

So I'm not sure if he wanted to be a lieutenant or a captain, but he left and the captain was getting older. and he just gave me three range and then the captain ended up leaving so now I'm very close at the time with my major who kind of was overseeing the STG

and who kind of put me in that spot on admin shift on charge of all of the barbershop and all the cafeteria everything like that right so now I'm basically running it no mind you a little bit of training I don't know training whatsoever

not like a California Department of Corrections or BOP where they put you to do strenuous training. Right. It's just what you know from the street or what you think you know and just learning as you go into the field. Right. But I wasn't really like too, like, gunhole on learning it,

to be honest with you. All I was doing was making sure that what my major wanted, not crazy amounts of contraband, not crazy amounts of violence because there was a lot and just keeping an order on on it that's it how many inmates are in this prison at this particular institution I was at

it was about maybe 1,300 1,200 that's a good size and Colvin was 18 the low was 1800 the the medium was 14 or 1500 so it was basically the size of the medium that's a lot of fucking people. Right. And now this was, it wasn't, you know, in Florida, they don't have a medium and low like that. They just have like different like degree of like custody levels, right? So like if like for instance,

if you got sentenced to the BOP and you were a high, you would go to a pen, right? Here in Florida, you would kind of be put on CM like behind a door. So all like the maximum security prisons here in Florida are, they're not really dangerous because the image is behind a door. It's basically like the shoe. The whole thing is like the shoe. So the mediums, what you would classify a medium, is like a high. Yeah, I was going to say a medium, they're behind the door. You can feed them through the doors. You can, you know.

Right. It's a little different the way the state runs it on BLP. So like to kind of like transition over to it would be like a medium. But you have inmates that are high offender on there. Like dangerous to staff. And they're basically like the pen. But they're just not called like a. So you might have one guy behind the door that robs them banks, but isn't really that dangerous next to another guy who's there for killing five people and's never going to get out.

This guy's got 10 years. He's getting out. He robbed three banks. Right. This guy, you know, this guy, you know, robbed three banks with a note. He's still going. And then this guy who's killed five people is never getting out of prison. Those guys could be right in the same.

Correct. Unless your custody level is so low where you have an outside gate pass, you'll be at a camp or, you know, or like a re-entry center, something like that. A guy with three murders isn't going to ever get there. No, never get that. But only recently the Department of Corrections have classification where they would do your height and weight proportion to be in the cell. So back when I was working there, you can literally be 5-1-120 and be sold up with 6-6-250.

Yeah, no, that could go bad. Now it's not as bad. classification has changed because of so much PREA, Prisoner Elimination Act, they had a lot of Priya going on or, you know, accusations of Priya, no one's beyond the door, I wouldn't even want to know. Right. Right. But only recently have they changed that. But that's why Florida is a very dangerous because a very dangerous institution, just because the people that are running it, you know, it's a free for all. You know, there's not many things in order. that would have kept you safe.

Like you said, you could be a nonviolent offender, but being there for 10 years and being a cell with a dude that's serving three life sentences. Right. Yeah, it's funny because in Florida, you guys, they go to like a reception center where they, where everybody's mixed in together until they classify you.

But in the Bureau of Prisons, like, you're classified from the get-go. Yeah. You're not going to a pin unless you, You're pinpoint. Right. So a reception center would be equivalent to the same custody level as like an FDC. Okay.

Or Oklahoma City Transit Center. Yeah. It's administrative. Yeah. You're being processed. You're being assessed. Yeah. Right.

I went through there. Oklahoma City? Yeah. Yeah. They got it down there, don't they? You're almost as upsetting and depressing as it is the situation is. It's odd. And oddly impressive.

Like, you swarm off that plane and those guys, it's an assembly line. I've never had the cuffs taken off me so fast and everything. That guy, you walk up on a little stairs and you turn, and I mean, it's, right? And you're like, what the hell? Like wooden plank stairs, right? It looks like you're about to be executed. Yeah.

That's how I felt. Yeah. And then you go down there, grab a bag. You grab a bag at your bag lunch. and you go in that room with all the diamond plate. It's like if it's like 300 people. Yeah, yeah. But you're just kind of, you're in there.

You're not that tight, but you're in there. It's tight. You're in there. You're not sitting out. Everybody couldn't sit down, that's for sure. You definitely know you're in a prison. Oh, yeah. You know, you definitely know you're in a prison.

What's funny about that is, uh, I actually have a story. I think Cole has heard this. I'm just going to do this story. And then I'll stop, I'll stop interruption. You just, you just, you just, you just, you just, no, no, go ahead. So, but you'll appreciate this. I've been arrested for like like a month or so

maybe six weeks and so I'm standing there and I walk so I walk in there and I'm I go get in that room and we're standing there and there's a toilet like in the corner but there was so many people this old guy couldn't see it was an old man he's probably 76 5% no not he had at least be 70 in his 70s

right 70s because he was old and there was a black guy that was there that had to be 6-2, jacked up on steroids, and had gold teeth that had fang. Stop. I shit you not. He looked like a comic book character. He looked like the comic book character, Blade. Okay.

But from the comic book. Right. Bigger than, what's his name? Who plays Blade? Wesley Snipes. Wesley Snipes is not that tall. He's not that big. He's not like a six-foot-two guy.

This guy was a giant. And I'm sitting there, and we're not far away. Right. I'm sitting there and I, you know, everybody's kind of sizing each other up, right? That's what happens here. We're standing there. And the old man, he's standing there and he said, I got to go to the bathroom. And we're like, oh, okay. And he looks over at the door and he walks over the door and grabs the door. And he goes, hey, they got us locked in here. And me and the black guy. I look at it. He looks down.

We look at each other. And I go, yeah, it's probably going to be a lot of locked doors from now. And the black guy's got to start chuckling, right? And he looks at the black guy, looks at the old man. He goes, what are you in here for, pops? And he goes, and he looked at him. He said, I don't know. I was just taking, you know, my, my granddaughter, she's one of those,

those lesbians. She's a lesbian. And he goes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And she, she and one of her girlfriends, they were taking, they wanted me to take some, some pictures of them. And I was taking some pictures of them.

And they put them on the internet. And they selling those pictures. They were sell. I wouldn't even sell them. I just took the pictures. And we're like glancing at each other. Because, you know, in that environment, people, there's not a lot. There's no real politics at that point yet, right?

Because everybody's stunned, you know, they're not like, I'm going to fuck you up because guys are waiting to go to trial. Guys are still fighting their case. Like, I'm not trying to. They're trying to take it easy. Right. Right. And the way he was saying it, you could tell it's almost like he's old. I mean, I think you know what you were doing was wrong.

But you're acting like, oh, I'm just an old man. I don't really know. And we're like, and we're like, right. He's like, yeah, and they put it on the internet. And then they was selling them pictures. And I was like sitting there and I and so I'm processing it right because I don't really understand what I'm not on that. I haven't been locked up enough to start realizing what a show is and what makes it illegal and what, you know. Right.

And I'm not thinking along those lines because it's never something that's never entered my world, right? Like when you're 18. Yeah. And you're 17, 18 years old. You've never heard of underage this or under. It wasn't as prevalent then. It might have been out there, but I don't know about it. I don't think about those things.

So where I'm listening to him and me and the black guy are kind of glancing at each other. And I went, how old's your granddaughter? Because I'm thinking to myself, you're taking pictures of two lesbians, like, there's nothing, and putting them on the internet and selling them. There's nothing illegal about that. Why would you be here? And then I dawns on me, how old is your granddaughter? And he goes, oh, she's 14, 15 years old.

And, and the, and listen. The, the, like, dude just got to look. He's like, took a step back. And he said, he said, I keep that, I keep that to myself, pops. He said, you might not want to be telling a lot of people that. And he was like, well, I didn't do nothing. It's like, yeah, I don't, that's probably not going to go over well like that. And anyway, he ended up, we ended up saying, there's a toilet over there in the corner.

He goes over, oh, there's all these people here. Well, there's, you're going to have to get used to this. This episode is brought to you by. FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate launch. The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. Is you going to have to? Yeah. But yeah, that was, it was that was one of those, you're going to

meet a lot of very odd people and odd situations. 100%. And that right there would have pissed me off. Even if I was an officer and overheard him speaking, I probably would have slapped them right then and there. I didn't do nothing. That would have really pissed me off. Well, I had bigger problems than to have a lot.

I'm still, yeah, I'm still in shock from being. I'm still in shock that I'm standing next to a guy who's six foot two with has gold fangs and looks like a scarier version of blade. I mean, he looked like a cartoon character. It's just like... That is. But as you know,

in prison, looks are deceiving. Like, I've seen people come in with no tattoos. They look like a little geeky nerd. Next thing you know, they have tattoos all over their face, their head.

And I've already seen their rap sheet. How many times they checked in to PC? This, it's like, who are you trying to fool with those tattoos? You know, it always seems like the guy, guys that are super quiet that you know that's the guy who's killed three people he's quiet he just

keeps to himself he reads he's he doesn't talk to he doesn't have a bunch of friends just watches everything and you're like that's the guy who you're like that guy's got a life sentence and he's killed three fucking people and he's been to trial four times and beat state cases and now you know what I'm saying like you look at his rap sheet you're like this guy is a menace and then the other guy who might be completely tatted up and just you know jacked up walks around and everything And you have a conversation with them and you realize like, you're a good dude. Nice as fucking guy.

And, you know, like it's all for show. Right. Usually the big dudes, they already know what they're capable of. They already know they don't have to be an asshole. Right. They're usually very respected. Right. You know, unless, you know, you get on the wrong side, you disrespect them.

But for the most part, yeah, it's usually a little skinny tatted up kids that actually, you know, run their mouth and give you a problem. Yeah, it's funny. I was going to say it's always like the guy who's a professional boxer or in an A fighter or who can just destroy everybody in the dorm who's just the nicest, politest. Right. And it's funny how it works. Yeah. He just doesn't want any trouble because it's, you know, even though he knows it's not

going to end badly for him, it's like no matter what, it's not going to end badly. It's no matter what getting into the situation means going to the shoe, getting shipped. I'm happy here. That's it. It's a little vacation for him. Right. Way from the compound. So you were, so you're basically kind of running this unit.

Well, department. Departments. Yeah. I wasn't working a specific dorm, like I said. I would go into the dorms, you know, to talk to inmates about, you know, whatever's going on at that moment. But I didn't work a dorm. But the power that I had, you know, I was reckless. Literally, I was so reckless.

And everyone knew, all the inmates knew me. And not for a bad reason, not for a good reason. They just, you know, for both. They heard me. And I was always respected. I always respected me. 100%, but the minute I was disrespected, they already knew it was a problem. And not to say, like I said, oh, because they knew that I was going to beat them up,

maybe they can mess me up. It didn't matter. They knew I was going to get them one way or another. I would make it very, very difficult for them. But a regular ordinary inmate that followed the rules or whatever, I never had a problem with them. Right. Always respected.

Even the high gang, like the inmates that are high ranking in the gangs would respect me. Because they knew also that I can ruin their whole organization, their whole scheme, whatever's going on in that prison right there, their hustle. I can ruin it in the snap of a finger because I already knew everything that's going on. And a lot of inmates didn't like that they had problems amongst themselves because if two inmates are from two different gangs and they're about to go at it, it's not like the feds where they got to have permission from their shot call or their shot call it to go. And Florida, it's a free-for-all.

There's no politics here in Florida. And they just take off right then and there. But if I hear something's brewing from two different gangs, that's all I cared about. I would go to the one I had the best rapport with on both sides. And we would talk it out and tell them, yo, you need to handle this. I'll make sure on rec time that over here in the cut by this dorm is not going to be any officer for 15 minutes. You got 15 minutes. Anyone who gets caught is.

you're on your own. And so I was very unorthodox on how I handle things. Right. So if I knew one organization was in charge of all the cell phones and they're renting them out and they're letting no one else get no play on no cell phone. Because

most of the time in the state of Florida, if you're not in a gang, you don't have a cell phone unless you're paying. Very rarely, it's going to get taken. Don't care who you are. That's just how it is. So I really didn't really care too much about the cell phones. But if it's out of hand, it's flooding the whole prison.

Now is my job to come up in here and make sure, see who's going. And I had a lot of snitches. And not that I even asked for it, they would just literally come in here and sit down like me and you were talking and come and tell me everything. Yeah. And I respected it, but I didn't respect it. I already knew I can't trust you. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I'll take your information. Don't expect no favors from me for anything because I don't trust you. So if you want an inmate hit off the yard, I can make it happen. I can go mess with them or I can get someone else to go get them off. You want them off. If you're giving me information, I'll get them off. But if you're snitching like that blatantly, I'm not messing with you. You understand?

Like at the, in federal, whatever, at Coleman, I don't know where is it everywhere. I know at Coleman. They would put guys on the payroll. So there would be a snitch and they would put them like on the payroll. They could actually put money on their books. Right. They could pay them as almost like a job, like a facility job where you're getting $95 a month or you're getting $210 a month to do whatever. Sorry.

Because I mean, I know. Yeah, I heard about that. Because I would go in to, I would get called in SIS because I was ordering paperwork on inmates, right? Like Freedom of Information Act. I was writing stories on different inmates, right? So I'm writing your true crime story, let's say. And I'd order your freedom of information. And so every once in, half the time it just got in.

The other half the time, SIS would get a hold of it first. They'd go through the mailroom. They'd call me in. They go, Cox, what's going on? You have this guy, John Boziacs. You know, you've got his, this is police reports from fucking, you know, Miami Day, like, what's going on? And I'd be like, I'm writing a book about him. And they go, well, what's the story?

And I'd tell him, look, he was brought up. I'd tell him a quick version of the story. And they'd go, he does he know you're getting this? And I go, yeah, he knows. And sometimes they would have to ask the guy. Right. But after once or twice, it was like, okay, does he know you're getting this? Yeah, okay, here.

And they give it to you, which, you know, is not supposed to happen. No. But there were multiple times, well, not, but probably just twice. So where they actually said to me, like, listen, you know, like, we could, you know, I was looking at your books. I was looking at how much money you get in. Like, if you hear anything, like, you can, I can, like, did you know of any cell phones? Do you know what I mean?

And I was like, bro, come on. Like, I'm, I cooperated in my case. Right. I went back to court to get. my sentence reduced. Nobody's fucking telling me where there's a fucking cell phone. No way. Like, I couldn't help you if I wanted to.

I don't know. But by him saying, you know, we can put money on your books. And it was like, I was thinking myself, I wonder how many guys are getting money on their books. You know, that's crazy. I didn't know that. I heard about it. I didn't know. I didn't believe that was true because they don't do that in the state.

Okay. Like, I can't even offer you. If you want to collaborate with me, I can't even offer you that I can get time off your sentence or you get your good time back, your gains. I can't help you. You're doing it for free. They specifically told me we can get you a Rule 35. Like if you get help us get a case. Wow. We can we can actually put into the was it the DOJ. He goes he was we can actually file for a Rule 35 from the DOJ. And I was like, I hear you and listen, you saw my jacket. I'm ready to go. But nobody's fucking selling me. Nobody's selling me a cell phone.

Nobody's telling me where there is. Like, I promise you, none of these guys are going to tell me that. And they were like, he was like, all right, well, keep your eyes open. I was like, yeah, I would have been ready to sing too. I mean, yeah, I'm ready to. I wish I could help you, but it was just too well known. Yeah, Cox is, yeah. Right.

Too suspicious, yeah, too suspicious of you. But I'm sure that there were guys that were, matter of fact, there was a guy who had come to Coleman from another facility because he had been. bringing in cigarettes, not even like drugs. He'd been bringing in cigarettes through a guard and got the guards in trouble. In trouble. And they came in in the middle of the night, not banged on his door like after 10 o'clock count, bang on his door and took him and moved him to another facility. They moved him to the medium. And he was at that moment, he was the biggest supplier of cigarettes. He'd already gotten another couple of guards bringing and cigarettes already.

Like he was whittling that. He was going from facility to facility, whittling down his time. To do it. Yeah. Right. That was his job. Just for cigarettes.

You know, because it's illegal to, it's contraband. Well, they don't look at it as if it's cigarettes or if it's any, a drug or a cell phone. They look at it as the intention, right? It's your intention.

You intentionally trying to make profit on bringing something that's not banned. So you can literally, no, it sounds crazy. You can literally, an officer can get the same amount of time is bringing in cigarettes as a cell phone. It doesn't matter. Right.

That's the intention. It's your intention of bringing in that contraband as an officer. You're smoked. You're cooked. Right. They'll cook you for that, for sure. So I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.

I'm going to stop doing that. No, no. Go ahead. Sorry. You just keep reminding me as stuff. I'm like, oh my God. Like, it's not like that here. I like it.

I like the conversation. Keep it going. It's a, so all the power that I had, the leeway. Right. And I was getting at. this time, I'm getting into a decent amount of scuffles too, right? With disrespectful inmates or if an inmate needs to be taken out for something, you know, sometimes I would even go get that inmate out.

If he's a major problem and I came up to you, that's your brother, that's in your gang, and I said, yo, listen, I'm getting way too much, way too much complaints. I'm getting complaints from officers. This dude is crashing out. I need them up out of here. You better handle it before I handle it, because the way you handle it is going to be different the way I handle it, right?

Right. And if it wasn't done to my liking, or if it wasn't done at all, that M.A. was going to get smashed and off that compound. So what would, what types of behaviors, like what are these guys doing

that are making them such a problem? What would an example be? So, in Florida there's a lot of real dudes out there. Don't get this, you know, twisted. There is, but there's also a lot of snitches. Right. Right.

And a lot of snitches goes up the chain. So now they're on my neck. So it could be just a little thing that keeps getting brought up. Extortion, right? The staff don't really care if you get extorted. But this guy keeps writing, writing, complain after complain after complain. He's getting everyone else involved. now it looks bad on the staff, right?

And the whole organization of Department of Corrections, it's an illusion. The only thing that the higher reps care about is the maintenance, the parking lot being painted, you know, like the parking spots, or the grass that's strictly like cut to perfection, the expansion joints on the sidewalk, no weeds growing up. That's all they care about is the illusion for when region comes and gives an evaluation. Because once you get to a certain rank, there's only so much you can go up now. Like for a warden, you can't be what's going to go higher than a warden. Or what's going to go higher than a warden is becoming region. So in Florida, there's four or five regions, I believe. And they have a regional director, which would be basically the warden of all the wardens of that prison, of the prisons in that region.

like South Florida is like region three or four and they have like three or four prisons or five prisons that are in region four for the South Florida. So the regional director would be the headshot from the state of all in charge of all the wardens. So people, you know, even the wardens want, I don't know if they get kickbacks.

I heard they do. I can't speak on it for sure, but they get extra money, extra bonuses for less crime. and your appearance and stuff. It's crazy as it sounds. Literally, they don't care about the inmate safety. They barely care about the officer's safety, right?

They just want the illusion of a beautiful prison. Right. It's unbelievable. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's right smoothly. Nobody's getting stabbed or killed. That the grounds are kept up while the prison appears to be in good shape.

Exactly. And every complaint, you know, small complaint. Inmates are going to complain about the fucking most ridiculous thing. It's always going to happen. You're not going to stop it. But if it's after. one after another and it keeps going up the chain of of the staff reading those complaints, that's not going to look good on them.

Right. So they try to hush it or they don't care. They would literally tell me, we want him out of here. Get him up out of here, whatever you got to do. Right. And I will go up in there and get him up out of there. What does that mean? I would either send another gang out on him, you know,

and I would look the other way with certain things. And I know it's like, wow, you sound just as dirty as a number. officer bringing stuff in, I don't look at it that way. I wouldn't, I didn't bring in contraband, right? And I know that I can never stop the contraband. Right. And the way I viewed it is, I need to keep it to a minimum at least. Because in order for a facility to run smoothly, I believe, is that you need some things. You can't be by the book. You can't be by the book. in order to have respect and

the way you want the prison to run you have to be unorthodox you may have to do some things that some people are listening be like wow this guy would actually let the gang attack another inmate this and that yes but it's for the better of everyone else so one guy got to go but it's saving everyone else because

it can create a riot it can create civilians that work in the prison to get hurt the inmates to get her so one guy gets hurt instead of maybe 50 stabbings that day Right. That's the way I looked at it. Right.

A lesser of evil, I guess. Well, it's like, I was going to say, they'd let them, like, you're not allowed to gamble. You're not allowed to have tattoos. Right. Tattoo guns or tattoos. You're not allowed to, but they allow them to do it because it's a way to keep them entertained. Like, if you said, hey, guess what? You know, everybody, you're going to go to your cell and you're going to read.

And there's no TV, no gambling, no tattoos, no. Listen, they'll destroy that. They'll attack the guards. They'll destroy the prison and it won't go away. So you have to give them TVs. Why? To entertain them to entertain them. Let them burn off some steam playing a handball. Right. Let them. Right. Some officers, they try to be dicks and, you know, they don't even have a wreck that day. Right. Well, now you may have a problem now, you know. I'm all for if there's something happened, you got to shut the wreck down. Yeah. Right. You shut it down. But just to shut it down, just to be a dick because one inmate pissed you off. Well, that's what happens with the TVs. They use the TVs as babysitters, right?

They'll take them away for two days. And the other inmates will tell the other inmates, like guys would be causing a problem to shut your fucking mouth. You know, don't talk during count. Like, he's not going to let us watch the fucking game tonight. That's why. Like, they'll police themselves for access to TV or whatever. Right. They 100%.

That's 100%. But I would only use the TV aspect. or the rec yard aspect or something like along those lines just to get at you. So if I didn't like you and I walked into a dorm, right? I literally, and we just didn't like each other, right?

And I'm on to you and I'm going to get you one way or another, either legally or illegally, but I'm going to get you. And you're just as a jerk off as I'm a jerk off, right? I would walk in and be like, all right, listen up. Everyone's going to be locked down for the rest of the night. It's like 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

Everyone's going to be locked down for the rest of the night because of this fucking jerk off keeps doing this. and I'll make something up. Right. And then everyone, they're going to police, someone's going to check them off. Yeah, yeah.

You know? Yeah. And that's how I'll do it. Or if I didn't like you, I walked by you and be like, yo, thank you for the information you gave me yesterday. It was very helpful.

I'm going to go get them later. Fucking God. They would look like, what, I didn't say shit. What? I have the paperwork inside. You want me to come show it? Or are you going to shut your mouth?

Which one are you going to do? But I would only do that what problematic inmates, that no one, even these other inmates, didn't want. Right. You know, like not too many inmates had a problem with me, except the ones that were, you know, some of them are gang related. You know, some of them were affiliates, but there was a problem.

I had a reason to come for you. I wasn't just picking on you because, you know, your pants weren't tucked in or you sucked your teeth or you didn't get up when we told you to get up. It wasn't really like that. I had a job and that was strictly to keep things going and to minimize. the potential damages that these gangs cause. What are some of the issues that these guys are causing? Like the main ones that, you know, make you want to... So most of the problems that these MH cause are,

what the gangs, at least, is the extortion. Extortion is huge, and people write... People, even if they're getting extorted, they're going to write a complaint on you. And like I said, the staff don't really care about that, but enough of them come, enough from enough different. people come, now you have a problem that you can't handle. The extortion, the gangs are running the prison, extortion, right?

Enough complaints, it starts causing, you know, the wheel running where this prison can't get a hold of these gangs. Do we have to send in extra help to come and wash them away? Or can you handle it with yourself? It looks bad on the higher ups. Right. Right. The contraband, the drugs, the synthetic, the synthetic drugs that they use is tremendous.

tremendously dangerous for everyone involved, even the people that are using it. These guys that are smoking it and they're getting violent. They're drinking their own urine. They're eating their own feces. They are running around thinking that they're on fire. It's crazy stuff that I've seen. No, no. I've seen the on fire thing.

Like I've seen these guys running or then they'll strip their clothes off. They strip their clothes off. naked. And a lot of them aren't even meaning to be violent with you. They just don't know what's going on. So the minute you grab them, you don't know if they have a knife on them. So it's tremendously, it's funny that a lot of the inmates laugh about it and stuff. But it could go south and the snap of a finger just because how dangerous is.

You're not in your right state of mind. And the only thing that really kind of works is like if you slap them from, like you slap them out of nowhere, like really hard and really fast. Sometimes they snap up out of it. Right. Some people say throw water on them. I don't think it works. A couple of times that I did it, we had to put him in a wheelchair,

there's one, because he thought he was swimming, so he was like, just swimming. So we had to get him up in the wheelchair and we're bringing him to medical, and I seen what was going on. So he's coming into medical, and they can't get him up.

So I told the nurse, hey, go inside for a second. Hold on. Let's go inside for a second. So she's like, I said, just go inside for a second. So she goes inside, and I just hit him as,

as hard as I could just open hands and he stood up. And it kind of scared me because he stood up and was like, like looking at me like, he didn't even know what happened, but he snapped out of it. Right.

So I don't suggest any officers actually do that, but that's the only way you can actually wake him up, snap him out of it. But it's very dangerous because if an inmate dies because of the drug problem,

the morning's going to, they're going to, it's not going to be good. Okay. Like, so, but, It was mostly the drugs, the cell phones, cell phones, people are calling in drugs to be thrown over the fence or to throw a bag somewhere on the grounds for the outside grounds to come in.

You know how outside grounds is a big portion of how the drugs come in. Right. Some guy who's mowing, the guys that are mowing the yards are doing it edging outside and they all know that over by this group of trees, they'll look for like a, maybe it looks like a rock. It's like a black, like a whatever. it'll be like a... And a balloon maybe. Like a black balloon or something. Right.

But they can grab it and stick it in their pants and then they'll go when they come back in, they get searched really haphazardly because they know their boss isn't going to really give a shit and he gets to get, bring it inside. Exactly. Because the bosses, you know, they do the strip searches and everything. Right. But you know where it's going. There's really, once it's up there, it's kind of hard to even know it's up there.

You can tell by the way they, they walk or they squat down. But most of the time it's up there. It's fucking up there. Right. And a lot of these, and a lot of these inmates know. that the metal detectors in these institutions, they have, each one can be different. It's the sensitivity level.

So if the sensitivity level is low because the person in the control room doesn't want to hear the beeping all day, right? So they'll lower the sensitivity. So even if you have something that will go off and you put enough electrical tape on it, sometimes it won't go off. Okay.

So, and each day is different. So, like, if you're in the officer trying to bring stuff in, that would be one of the worst ways because you don't know where the sensitivity level is going to be that day. Yeah, I was just, I was thinking about this, the guys bringing in stuff, the different ways. And I was also thinking I knew a guard had told me this one time, was that he'd gotten a bonus for finding like a cell phone or he found something where they actually were giving the guards like bonuses. Wow.

For finding, this is, you know, BOP, or finding cell phones or for finding. And that was one of the things they were like, listen, if you know, you know of any cell phones, because, you know, they were giving them bonuses. Right. So that's why, so suddenly guards, this, I don't know how long, I don't know if they did it, if it was a normal thing or if they did it for a certain period of time because they literally, there was a good three to six months. I remember we were in search like just all the time. And somebody, and, you know, being one of the guards had said that, yeah, they were now given bonus. to find cell phones or something. Wow, I would have been rich.

I know. I would have brought in people. I would think if you were a guard, you'd just start bringing in cell phones. You could do that too. If you just got a cell phone, it's not my fault. It doesn't work.

I want my fucking $200 or $600. Right, but it's very easy. If you go to a certain organization and say, listen, for this time frame, I'm not going to mess with you. I'm not going to mess with your hustle. But I need something from this organization over here because I already know I want them up out of my body here.

Too many of them. They're acting wild. They're feeling themselves now that they have higher numbers. I want them up out of here. And I know they got a lot of cell phones. Eventually, you know, that organization will be able to tell you where they keep in their cell phones. Right. And you just don't, you got to keep your word now.

So if I tell you, hey, I'm not going to mess with you or any of your brothers, but I need something from these people and I need it by this day or I'm coming hard on you now. Right. You'll have it. I guarantee you will have it. But you can't act on it because prison has. eyes. Everyone, there's always a fly on the wall. So if they see me talking to this one specific organization, right? Two hours later, you're in this other guy's locker. So I would have an, I would have an officer that who was by the book. And he'd be like, how do you know all this?

I would never tell them my secret. I would never tell. If I had a thing where someone's telling me something and I messed with you, I would never, ever give up your identity. He would always ask me, how are you getting it? How are you getting it? How do you know? I'm like, man, I just, I just kind of know where they hide things. So go check this area. Go check this area. Go check this go check that inmate. It's going to be in this light here or the cinder block underneath or the legal mail.

Because a lot of inmates get it messed up. They hide a lot of stuff in the legal mail thinking that we can't go through the legal mail. First of all, I don't even care if I can't go through the legal mail. I'm going to go through your legal mail and I'm going to write up

the D.R. whatever it is, right? And I didn't find it in legal mail. I found in your laundry bag. Right. How are you going to prove that I once? Yeah. Wait, what's your argument?

No, no. It was in my legal mail, not my laundry bag. Right. These dudes are stupid. it. But so that would be those things right there to someone who never really been to prison or worked at a prison may look like, oh, there's cell phones or, you know, there's, there's, there's drugs in there. But it's very, it makes it very, very dangerous. And even the extortion makes it dangerous because now, now the people that are getting extorted, they may go to another

organization to pay for protection. And now the ones that they're paying may have to do something to the other organization now because now that's their hustle. That's how they make their money. And now you're trying to ruin their hustle. But the other organization looks at it is, now you're ruining my hustle because I was extoring him. Now you're going to get paid. So now something's very small like that can cause a whole fiasco.

People get stabbed and slice in prison for a lot less than that. I know you mentioned it just real briefly, but where are some places that they would hide contraband, like good places? Or people, the place the average Joe wouldn't think about, like where are they hiding these places? Thanks. So the craziest things that I seen was one inmate had it in, he had a very little small phone. They would call finger phones.

They had finger phones in. They had some Android that you would see. But when I was working there, they had the G-star finger phones. Literally, it was about the wide and as long as your finger. And you would cut off like one of the gloves, like a latex glove. And you would put it up in there, right? and then maybe put it through another bag or something, right, and hide it

and where he was the orderly. And I already knew, I already knew that he had the phone because someone gave me information or us. I wouldn't have never found it. So he put it up in the bag and he tied it to the bottom of a mop. Tied it.

And then he put the mop on top of it. And whenever time an officer would come for searches and stuff, he was, since he was the houseman, he would act like he was going, and mop and you would never know where it is because who's going to go check the mop right you'll go check the mop closet you go check the shower you ain't going to check the mob right i mean i at least i'm i'm going to do search i'm not going to go check a mop and he had it

inside the mom boom that you were going to say you know oh that that happens too yeah yeah that happens that happens a lot but most of the people that have the phones they don't hold on to it themselves they have a hold down man. Yeah, yeah. Right? So usually it would be older, older inmates. Because people feel like, oh, no one's really going to go search them. They're old.

They're sitting there. No, those are the dudes that still have the mind of a young convict. They just more mature and know how to go onto the radar, not be so loud and put attention on yourself. So it would be like in common areas as well. So a lot of inmates didn't like to have the stuff in their cell all the time. Right. Because they do a lot of searches. This institution, I work that, they did a lot of searches.

So they will put it in common areas. You know, especially in the Open Bay dorm, they'll have like a long counter. There's a little tall in this all the way down. I have like eight sinks on one side, eight sinks on the other side, right? And I had like a metal casing. And somehow they shimmied up. And it's kind of genius because the officer station is five feet away. All they have to do is look to the left.

And they could see in the bathroom and see it. So how they did it, I don't know. And they opened it and then they put some type of plywood. So when you open it, you just think that's the framing. Right. But the plywood, they must have, I don't even know how they got the plywood, honestly. Maybe from the tool card or grounds workers got it. But they had the plywood.

And the only reason why we were able to find it is because the plywood wasn't as long as the whole. you know, counter of the, of the bathroom. So it was missing about like a foot, two feet. So we're like, if that was the found, if that was the wooden framing of this, it would have covered it, right? So they're like, pull it up.

And as soon as you pulled it up the wood, you know, plywood that they had, it just fell inside. And that's where we found all the alcohol. There was a couple cell phones in there. And they had it all organized. So when they opened it, they know who's it. whose is what, like what sink it was in front of.

Yeah, but if it's in a common area, you don't know who's it is. Right. And the other thing is, so a lot of guys will have, you know, like, there's one guy, and they're like 10 guys or five guys paying that guy to, he keeps the phone for you, keeps it charged up, make sure it's available for you all the time. And if he gets hit, if his place gets searched and they find the cell phone, he says, that's my cell phone. He's going to shoot.

He has to go to this shoe. Yeah. He doesn't say, oh, man, that's, give me fucking phone. You know, no, no, no, that's your phone. You're going to the shoe. But he might be getting $100 or $200 from eight different guys. He's making $800 or $1,000 a month. He's living really well.

Or they just pay him in, you know, drugs. Yeah. Or he's getting extorted to do it. A lot of times I've seen that, too, they're, you know, they're extorting you to do it. You don't have a choice. This is your safety right here. it's in a way it's kind of like putting in work and that but most of the time i was to say everybody would make sure you're okay too because if you're holding 10 guys cell phones then nobody wants to

fuck with you exactly if something happens to you everybody loses their cell phone exactly so that's most of the time sometimes you would find you would find more shanks in the cell than the cell phones i was going to say in in federal prison it's more it's not really nobody's really if they are getting extorted it's like friendly extortion at best you know well i at a low i guess yeah right yeah um where they're just paying them You know, you've got to, if you're at a low, you probably have a family out there that can send you four or five hundred bucks a month or something, you know what I'm saying? You'd pay somebody to hold it.

Right. So, you know, they'll sell their cell phone. They're minutes on their phone. They'll sell, you know, there's ways to make money. But so anyway, you were, so what's going on? What happens? So with that free reigns that I have, I don't even have a captain really to report to. Kind of just do what I want.

Like I said, it was, to me, I don't look like I was doing anything wrong. I look at it as I wasn't by the book, but I was, I was unorthodox, but it was working because I had the respect from the inmates where they would actually sit down and tell me what's going on and I would let them handle it themselves if they can. If they can't, then I handle it. But I was getting, it was getting to my head a little bit. And this is where ego, and I'm young now. And this is where ego starts coming in because.

How old were you? I was about like the early 20s. Okay. Right. So now the ego comes in and I'm not afraid to say it. Ego does come into play here. Right. A lot of situations that I got where I fought inmates, you know, could have been talked out.

And I did talk out sometimes, but sometimes I'll just be quick just to slap you or punch you or fight, take the belt off and fight you one on one. But this is where my downfall came. I started getting into a lot of uses of forces, but they were undocumented. So I would fight you or slap you or something and it wouldn't go documented. I never put paperwork on you, especially if me and you fought one-on-one, I would never put paperwork on you. I would just, we would shake hands. Sometimes we still said fuck you or if we want to go again, we go again, or sometimes we

still didn't like each other. But nine times out of ten, we had an understanding. We might not have liked each other, but we have an understanding that I'm going to do what I have to do. and you can do what you have to do, but if it's in a way of my hustle, you're done. But I was getting way too reckless where the warden, all the higher-ups were telling me,

hey, you need to take a chill pill, you're on the radar way too much. And I got put under investigation by the OIG, Office of Inspector General. That's like S-I-S. Okay. But no way near as trained as S-I-S. They're a joke.

So they would come and say, hey, you're under investigation, and they would kind of read you like a kind of a Miranda right, but not really because you're not really under arrest, but you're under investigation. And you have to go in the room. You don't have to talk, but you have to go in the room and hear them say whatever they have to say. And half the time I would be like, where's the paperwork? Well, you don't have any paper. Well, then why the fuck am I here?

Because nothing obviously happened. Well, these are guys, I said, you're listening to inmates, right? Right. I'm in charge of STG. They don't like me because I can ship them or I sent their brother somewhere. They don't like me. Obviously, they're going to make up stuff. So if you don't have any proof of anything, why am I sitting here?

And they did not like me. They're the ones who end up actually getting the FBI involved because inmates were getting, there was hits on inmates. No one died or anything like that. Right. Where the OIG, he knew everything. And inmates were snitching. Right.

Because when they had a good, if something happened, and the hit went and it took place, And inmates in PC until he gets transferred out, I guess enough of them went to the OIG and started and started telling them everything that I'm working with this gang. So they thought I was involved in an organization. But after I was arrested and everything, I spoke to the FBI. They thought at first I was a part of an organization. But then they realized that I'm not. I'm just working with numerous ones. Right.

So what was the issue that got the FBI involved? So a lot of the gang hits or my name. Like gang hits? Like murders? Well, not murders per se, but they would be some serious repercussions or inmates are getting stabbed up a couple of times. They're getting hit up. They're getting sent out. And where the prisons are, usually they're not close to town.

So they've got to get airlifted out. So a lot of inmates were getting airlifted out and it was getting out of hand. I was getting a little out of hand with letting CISN. slide and, you know, putting putting my hands on some of these inmates myself. I was so out of control where I would walk through a dorm looking for an in an inmate and if I had to go piss or something, I would just go piss right in your cell. Right. Like, you use your toilet, just piss right in your cell, not even flush the toilet.

Like, I was getting a little too out of hand and all the staff knew it. And they would literally tell me, oh, you're on the radar. Please slow the hell down. Whatever you're doing, just slow the hell down. And I didn't listen. and I should have listened. I remember this like yesterday. I was getting a haircut from an inmate

and the staff has their own barber, staff barber. That's an orderly. But I didn't go to him. He was like, no dude can't do a fade or nothing. So I had an inmate that I put into the barbershop. So it would be middle of wreck. I swear to God, it would be middle of wreck.

I would walk into the barbershop, kick the inmate out that's getting haircut. Sit in the chair and tell the dude to give me a haircut. Okay. And that's just like, you know, that's just what's my mentality. I was young and I was reckless. Literally, whatever I thought to do, I would do it.

And eventually I got it smart where I would be, you know, smart where if I was going to hit this in me or I was going to fight this in me or whatever it was, I would do it in a place where no one can see. But there would be sometimes it would just be blatant in front of the middle of the, in the middle of, you know, the walkway where all the dorms are or class of vacation window was. I was starting to let, you know, my method, my way, and the fact that I had so much leeway on whatever I wanted to do, I was letting it get to me. And that was my downfall. Was that?

So I'll tell you how this can go bad. I don't really know how it went bad at this point. But in Coleman, there was a lieutenant, big guy. He's like six foot six. He was married to whatever. I don't know if it was a lieutenant or cap. but I don't know what she was, but she was in the shoe at the pen, female. And, you know, the, you know, they work the shoe, right?

Like, it's a long hallway with a bunch of cells. You can feed people through the cells. Through the flap. Yeah, through the flap. And so really these guys almost, and in Coleman, they have a shower and a sink toilet combo, right? So you really never have to leave that. sell. Now, they're supposed to leave like once, I don't know if it's once a day to get 30 minutes or maybe it's once a week to get 30 minutes or an hour of wreck. Whatever. Well, there was an inmate that was

constantly giving this woman a hard time. I mean talking shit, you know, just calling her names or saying, really just being super disrespectful. And she really got irritated. I want to say he might have tried to grab her once through the cell. Something happened. He was being a dick. And there was another inmate, super nice guy, big guy, huge guy. And so one day she's walking down, and I may have this slightly off. You've heard this before, I think. So she's walking down and the big guy who's been super cool to her, very respectful, says to her, he's being moved or something. And he says, either she tells him or he tells her, let me take care of that guy for it. Put me in that in the cell.

Right. I want to say maybe she might have said, regardless, I don't know which or which. You know, I know that we had always heard one thing. You know, she said something else. Right. Which was, you know, that he's, you know, the inmate had always said that she went to him and said, I'm going to put you in that cell. Break his fucking arm.

You know, I want you to break this guy's arm. Probably did. Right. Now, of course, she says no, he has to be put in the cell. Whatever. Either way, it was for you to move this guy into this guy's cell, for whatever reason it was, it was completely inappropriate. 100%. But she moves him into the cell.

The guy gets in there. His intent is, I'm going to break the guy's arm. And what he, but the guy struggles. He doesn't want his arm broken. So the big guy gets him into a fucking chokehold and ends up choking him. to death and breaks his neck. And all of this, the conversations, the back and forth, the everything is on video. So you've got an inmate who this guy's giving her a hard time.

Every time she goes by, one day he's giving her a hard time. She literally goes across the hall, says something to the fucking guy. He cuffs up, takes him, puts him in this fucking cell, you know, cuffs up, everything. Very obvious what happened. something's wrong. And so the FBI, there's a murder. It's a murder. The FBI is coming.

It's an actual crime scene now. Yeah, yeah. FBI comes in, questions the big guy. What happened? Keep on there are other inmates who have heard the conversation. All these inmates are more than willing to say, yes, this female CEO was being given a hard time. She stuck that guy in. I'll say it.

I heard the whole fucking thing. I'd like to get out of prison. So when the FBI charged. her, they indict her. She dines the whole way through. That's not what happened, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Well, that's not what everybody else says.

And it sure as fuck looks like that is what happened on the video. They come to her and they say, they give her what I think is a sweetheart deal, 10 years. Giving you 10 years, you go to prison for 10 years, that's a gift. You know, let's face it. For murder. We didn't lose a veteran. You didn't lose a patriot here. You've just lost an inmate that's got a life fucking sentence in is a piece of shit.

That is a sweet deal. That is. Right. She doesn't take it. She goes to trial. She gets, I don't know. It's either 45 years or life. I think she got a life sentence.

I'm not sure. It's a life sentence. Her, keep in mind, her, um, the lieutenant she was married to, saw him every day. Big, big huge, nice guy, you know. Right. It was stern, but a big guy. Um, yeah. His fucking wife is locked up three states over for the rest of her fucking life.

So I'm saying, that's the fear is that those types of, hey, I'm going to let you do this and you're thinking, they're going to beat his ass or they're going to, the fear is obviously, and that's what I'm saying, that why is it so serious that these two guys get into a fight? They're in two different gangs. This gang is being whatever. This guy disrespected this guy. This guy borrowed money and owes this money.

I'm going to let him fight it out. The fear is he stabs him to death. You put this guy in a situation where he ends up getting murdered or get stabbed, you know, and I know when you say getting stabbed, because I've been. in prison, right? One of my stories is the first day I was in prison was, was that the fucking, you know, they do a lockdown. They start screaming. The PA's going off. They're locked down, locked down. And my cellie comes to me, he's like, I just got in there, bro. I've been there a couple hours. He's like, yo, yo, bro, we got to go in the cell. I'm like, what's going on? He goes,

someone got stabbed in the, in the rec yard. I was like, someone just got killed in the wreckyard. He goes, no, no, no, bro, they just stabbed them up a little bit. I remember he did this Right. You know, what you realize, first time I'd ever seen that, you know, now if somebody's, I saw that, somebody do that, I'd be like, oh, somebody's going to get stabbed. Right. And he goes, they just stab them up a little bit. And I was like, come in a place where they say stab them up a little bit. Like that's, but I realize they don't, they're stabbing you with a knife that's something like this big.

They don't want you to die. I want to stab you a few times. I want you to get taken off the compound. Right. That's what I'm hoping. That's exactly it. Yeah. They said, hey, do you want to murder this guy?

You want this guy to die? Fuck, no, I don't want him to die. I just want to stab him a few times so that it looks really bad. He's bleeding. He looks like he's been stabbed. He goes to the fucking hospital. He gets medevacked out. Goes to the hospital.

He never comes back here. That's my goal. Not to kill him. Exactly. I just need him the fuck out of here. Right. I have a question. So as a CEO, like you're trying to get rid of some guys, like you don't have the ability to just file some paperwork and send him somewhere else?

No. That is a sergeant. You don't have that. And you still need some type of due process. Like you need something to say, why is he a problem? What's happening? Especially if he hasn't been locked up any D.C., disciplinary confinement, you know, shots or anything like that, you can't get him. Because the problem is Florida doesn't have that many prisons.

In the federal system, you could actually say that he threatened you or something like that in the federal system. And they'll take them. They probably can ship them, right? But it's Florida. How many prisons are there? How many places can you go? Right. And how many times can I use that excuse?

Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm the guy who's shipping people all over the fucking place. Right. Because I very rarely wrote a, wrote a DR. Very rarely. That wasn't my style. I was going to get you out a different way.

You know, I was going to get you out a different way. Or have someone else get you out a different way. So what ends up happening? Like, how does this go bad? So what actually happened had nothing to do with the gang thing at all. I went to a backup call. They were requesting assistance. And I don't know.

I very rarely went to them, to be honest with you. But this one day, I guess I was nearby. I went. And there was one YEO unit there, useful offender unit. But here's the thing. It was not like 12, 13-year-olds. It was like 21 to 24.

Because here in Florida, I don't know why, but you can still be a YO at 24 years old. So if you get charged for the first time at 24, most likely you'd be charged as an adult. Right. But like if you got charged when you were like 18 as a YO and you got sent to a couple of years, you still considered a YO up until 24. Okay. So this was a dorm that's introducing them outside of the YO dorm to a main compound. So now they're in a dorm, but they don't eat at the same time and their dorm is sectioned off with gates. right

so they're still on the compound but they're not really a part of the compound I never even stepped foot in there I never even talked to a YO even if I heard oh you gotta go check this YO out because STG related I won't even go talk to him it's probably not even verified he's not in the system

I don't care what he's claiming I'm not gonna waste my time so I went there for assistance and I had an officer that was kind of like not under my wing, but I worked with him. I was just a higher rank than him, you know, but I don't look at him any less or anything. And he would put in a lot, at a lot of work. He was, he was, he was kind of

on a radar too. FBI radar, I don't know, but definitely OIG radar, which is internal affairs. Right. So, because he was, he was, he would be quick, like, maybe for no reason to, uh, to do something to you. Like, if, if you were in need of help, he's definitely one person that you would want there for him. I'll give him that. Right. So he happened to be there. And it was all female staff at the dorm and these inmates were going wild. And these are some big dudes. When I talk about a little skinny 24-year-old, we'll talk about some big, some big kids, you know, that been in the system a while.

And some of the Y-O camps here in Florida are just as vicious as a main prison. Well, if he's 23 or 24, he's a fucking adult. If he's over 18, he's an adult. That's how I looked at it. But in Florida, under 24, certain circumstances you're still considered a YO. But that really has nothing to do with if he was a YO or not. But I was just explaining that he came in that dorm. That's what the dorm he went to.

So they were being disrespectful to two female officers talking crazy. So he, the officer I was with, he said to the female officers, what do you want, what do you want to do? So she said, just talk to him and see what happens, right? So she gives the officer the key to go into a mop closet outside. side of the dorm. It's attached to the building, but in its own little room in a mop closet, outside. So you have to literally walk outside the dorm and against the building somewhere on the cut is a door for a mop closet for the cleaning supplies. So we take them in there and we start talking to them.

And there's one, there's three inmates in there and it's me and this officer. And this one inmate starts this like laughing. And I'm surprised that the officer I'm with is actually being nice. You know what I'm saying? Usually he's quick to punch him hit him on the radio or something. I have a crazy story about him and me and him tell him later.

So we go into the mouth class and now I'm just getting pissed at this inmate. It doesn't realize how lucky he is right now that this officer that isn't doing him. So I slap him. But he wants to fight. So I'm like, all right. So I had the officer take the other two inmates out.

and I gave him my, my belt. I should have never have done that because now that made it obvious. Because now I don't even have my belt on me. Right. You know, because it's a different story had you had the belt. Thank you. And I wasn't even going to put no paperwork on them, but it got too out of hand, too quick. Too many people came and seen.

Like I said, I never worked at dorm. I didn't know so many people come in and out of that dorm. Right. So, if I don't one-on-one and now, My officer comes inside and he's starting to talk. The inmate's starting to talk shit to him. So I'm telling everyone just to calm the fuck down because I'm not liking it now. Now it's just too much screaming.

It's too close. I don't know the other two officers that well. So then the officers, he starts hitting him, beating the shit out of him with a broomstick. And he's still talking crazy. So then I take the broomstick from the officer and I get pissed and I just thought. I said, fuck it. We hear. It's already.

I'm already needing shit. I'm going in. And I just thought I'd be beating the shit out of him with the broomstick and just beat the shit out of him. Too many people seen it. The female officer seen he was all fucked up, right? I didn't put paperwork on him. I could have saved my ass if I would have said he attacked me.

I could just made up something. But I didn't want to do that to the kid. I thought he was, you know, he seemed like a real dude. He was talking how he was living. And he wanted to fight, like straight up. Nothing bitch about this kid at all, you know? Right. So next thing I know, two weeks later, everyone's talking.

Everyone's talking about what happened. I'm like, yo, how to fuck the people know? The officer got afraid and went to the OIG, the dude that does not like me. Because I've been interviewed by him by many times, and I told him he would ask some stupid-ass questions. I would clown him. Like, I would tell him to go blow his father. And, like, I would be called in the warden's office the next time. like, what are you doing? Come on. Like, what are you doing? You're already doing something.

You're not supposed to. Now you're just insulting this guy telling him to blow his father. Calm down, you know? But I just didn't like him and I would just, I would just clown him. So now he has a hard-on for me. Right. And he definitely, he got the better of me. All these years of me clowning him. He won at the end of the day. I got to give it to him. So he contacts the FBI. I'm on, I'm on, um, no inmate contact. meaning that I can't work the compound no more. I can't be around no inmates.

So I'm in the mailroom. Okay. I'm in a mail room. Like wearing regular civilian clothes just work in the mail room. A week goes by, two weeks go by, three weeks go by. And so was the officer who was with me. He's in a mail room with me. Right.

And you don't know that he went to the... You don't know that he went to... The OIG. I didn't know that the OIG went to the FBI. Okay. No one knows. Right. You don't know that he went to OIG?

No, he didn't. One of the female officers that we received... responded to, she went to the OIG. Oh, I thought the other officer. No, no, no, no, no. With went, okay. No. She went.

She's seen what everything that happened, heard, talked to the inmates, everything. She went to a classification officer that I didn't even know, was brand new. And then she told her to go to the OIG. So now everyone fucking knows about this. I'm hearing about it. And I'm denying it. Like, I don't know what you're talking about, right? So we're in the mailroom a couple weeks go by.

We're not called into the OIG office, which is weird, because usually you call them real quick. Right. he doesn't call me in this time. So now that gets me scared. I'm like, oh, all the shit I did, this is what I'm going to get hemmed up for. So I actually end up leaving a lot of the Department of Corrections.

What, you quit? No, no. I mean, yeah, I put my resignation in it, but not because of that. I was, like, on no contact for, like, maybe six, four months, five months. So I'm thinking they're just, it's just going to blow over.

I haven't even been contacted, no one knows anything. We're good. So I'm in, I moved to Detroit, Michigan. And I applied for a police officer's spot and got it. I was in the academy. I was like the class president. It was like crazy. I kind of like had my same ways. Like I like, but I was like kind of changing my ways. Like realizing that kind of that last situation kind of scare me. So I'm like, let's kind of be by the book this time. Like, you know, let's be by the book. Let's not run things the wrong way. go. And if someone, you know, does something I'm not supposed, like, I don't like or disrespects me, let's just be about a buck. I'm going to go home at the end of the day. That stuff I did in Florida,

we're leaving it behind, you know, let's use it. Instead of using, you know, fighting muscle, let's use your brain now. Let's, Brendan, let's use your brain, which is kind of hard for me to do sometimes. But let's use your brain. So I'm doing excellent. I'm excelling. Like, I'm doing excellent. And then one day I got called by my corporal, yo, someone's here to see you. I'm in my classroom.

And I got called down. And it's... What did you think it was? I don't know. I really didn't know. I'm like, who the hell is here to see me? Like, you know? So I go down

and there's four dudes and suits and jackets because this is wintertime. and they one dude the one dude who was doing the talk and he reached out his hand took my hand and said how you doing I'm like what's going on he's like uh I'm here with the southern district of Florida FBI special agent king something like that I said especially from southern district of Florida I'm like you didn't think he was coming about the application you'd put in I was already in the academy No, I know.

Right. I did apply for the FBI. Do you guys usually come out? I was like, oh, you guys are here to recruit me? But I don't know what he's there for. I know it's nothing good, but I don't know what situation because there's so many damn situations. Right.

You know, I don't know what gang member may be cooperated now and he's taking down everybody with him. So I don't know what he's there for. Right. So they start asking simple questions at first because this is where I should never even talked at all. I didn't give no information, even about myself, like about myself, but I was just asking, I was answering some questions. They started off what, oh, how long have you been with the Florida Department of Correction? I said, well, I'm no longer with them. Obviously, I'm here in

Detroit working with, you know, trying to be police officers over here. And they were this like, like, like, I was making little jokes, like kind of sarcastic jokes, and they weren't going. They meant business, you know? And then in the middle of asking questions, sometimes I have ADD, right? So I'm like, yo, how'd you get the gun? He's asking me a serious question. I'm like, yo, how'd you get your gun here? You go on the plane with that?

And like, they all looked at each other, like, what's this dude to ask me, just do this question? And they just ignored it and asked the question again. So I already knew, I was kind of testing. I was like, I already knew they were here for business. So they started asking me, how long were you in the Florida Department of Corrections? Do you know, they were just asking me certain names. They had nothing to do with the incident, like even as a witness.

They were just asking. I guess they interviewed and see what type of officer I was and stuff like that. And then they started saying, so where were you, I forgot the date, maybe March 24th that happened or something?

And I'm like, I don't know. I don't even know where I was last night. I can't answer where I was. And then they started saying, do you know, and they named the inmates' name? I know a lot of inmates. That's a popular last name.

And then, They said, were you ever in Charlie Dorm? That's the dorm. I know now I know what they're here for. And then I was like, oh, I don't remember. I was all over the place. And then they were like, so tell me what you did in Department of Corrects. We see here you were in charge of STG and you had a lot of accomplishments.

I was like, yeah, I did. They were like, how did you get those accomplishments? It's like, well, I guess you worked hard. They're like, oh, that's what you want to call it? No cheat codes. The exact word, cheat codes. I'm like, what's a cheat code? I came to work every day and I did what I had to do.

They were like, okay. And so you don't know anything about that dorm. So now they left the STG conversation. They went back to the Charlie dorm. I said, no. I said, hey, the question, am I witness or a target here? And they sarcastically, like, chuckled and was like, you're a target, bro.

Like, you're a target bro. I was like, ah, well, I really don't really want to speak anymore then. I can't really help you out. I don't remember anything about March 24th or about Charlie Dorm. I really can't answer that. I was like, but if you have, you know,

they're like, hey, we have some video footage. We know you don't want to talk. You don't have to talk. Would you like to see some video footage? I said what? So you can see my reaction. I said, no matter what, I'm going to laugh. So, you know, like this is a joke.

I said, this is a fucking joke. Now I start getting a little fucking, like, pissed off. I'm like, you fucking come here, and I'm in the middle of this academy. You come here. Now, how am I going to explain to this? I was like, you're, I was like, well, who the fuck does this? You have nothing else better to do. Then come here and ask stupid-ass questions.

I was like, I don't fucking know. I was like, I don't want to see your fucking video because they had a laptop. I was like, go back to fucking Florida. And they were like, well, we are. And here's our card. And I was like, no, fuck your card. And I just like, pick the card and I went through it. Should have never done that.

Should have never done that. And then they were like, I suggest you contact a lawyer because we'll definitely be in touch. And next thing you know, I contact my lawyer and I had to go meet with them. And we didn't do no talking then. We just wanted to go see. Because my lawyer was like, hey, and, you know, there's no video. footage in the mob closet, right? I was like, no.

I was like, there's hardly any cameras anywhere, really, to be honest, just going into the dorm and inside the dorm. Nothing happened. And he was like, all right, so do they show you going? I was like, I don't know where the cameras are, but I don't think it even shows you going into the dining. I mean, into the mob closet. It just shows you coming in the dorm and out of the dorm.

That's it. Right. Which ended up being true. He's like, so I think they just shake. We got to go meet with them just to see if they're shaking the tree. they said some, like I said, I didn't do no talking. One of the, the OIG was in that meeting with the FBI and the prosecutor. And they said some things that I already knew I was fucked.

Like certain inmates that I let, you know, get rent off the yard. Right. One time I had it, and this was brought up, and I knew about this. and I should have listened to the inmate and I let it slide. One day I go into a dorm and I'm talking to one of the heads of this organization and he's telling me something about another organization. And I was in a cell. I thought it was his cell.

He just thought that I searched the cell and it's fine to go and talk to. So we're both thinking that the cell is okay. I'm thinking it was a confusing. Well, there was a little less inmate in the bed under the covers where it's flat you can't see. heard the whole thing of something that was going to go down. I can't remember exactly. It was definitely a beating of some sorts.

Of within the organization. And he heard the whole thing, this inmate. And he went singing about it. And I'm dirty. I'm letting things. And that's, I guess, how it started where, or helped the FBI and OIG think that I was running with these gangs when I really wasn't.

Right. And that even came up in it. Okay. Like that conversation happened where, well, we have inmates that heard conversations that you're allowing certain things to happen and concert band to be brought in and I'm bringing in concert band. That was an accusation of mine. I never once, I would admit it. I have nothing to hide. I would never brought in contraband ever in my life.

But you know how inmates are gets the one inmate. Yeah. So it gets better and better. The story gets better. better every time so they tell it so they knew a lot of things uh of of of organizations being ran off the yard so they were trying to hit me with like a conspiracy for like multiple uh civil rights violations but meanwhile i'm like i don't know how the hell they knew it but they can't they can't prove that right because they're going to take someone someone's word even if you hit me with the conspiracy

if not actually doing it hit me with the conspiracy you're going to takes an inmate's word. Now, if officers saying they heard it, then that's a different story. So I ended up ultimately coping a plea for one count of deprivation of civil rights for the mop closet incident. So after your lawyer and you sat down, you heard all the information. So they didn't have. So they didn't give all our evidence. They didn't give all the evidence. But they would say certain things. And we would say, hey, can we have a couple minutes? And he says, what is saying true? I said, yeah. He's like, how many times have you done certain things like this? I said, dude, for years. I don't know. Right.

You know? So then they come back in, they continue. So eventually, so eventually you leave, you get indicted or your lawyer just goes back and says, look, you know, well, what are you going to indict him for? And then they said, we're going to hit him for these six things. And he says, look, let's get it down to one count of, like, did you waive the indictment or did you get indicted? So I waived the indictment. Because of, I was trying. to say, no, let them indict me. I don't know. He said, dude, that's a bad idea.

Because he literally said to me, he says, but all these indictments, I don't know the exact numbers, but you're facing anywhere, you know, from 10 to 30 for each count of these charges. He said, can you do that time? And I'm very real about myself. Right. I don't try to be a tough guy.

I don't try to be, you know, something that I'm not. I am not living like that. I'm not. We've been federal. It was much better than the state. But even that, I'm not, I am not living like that. I'm not trying, like you said, I'm not trying to kill nobody. Right.

I'm not trying to try to go do 10 years and come. No, no. Yeah. I mean, it sucks, you know, but it does suck. It does. It's the worst feeling in the world. But the worst feeling in the world is not knowing your fate. Yeah, yeah.

Are you going to get arrested or you're not going to get arrested? I don't know how people live like that for years. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to be emotional a wreck. But you know, one of my co-defendants actually went and got a lawyer. Like she was never going to be indicted, nothing ever. And she went and got a lawyer because it had been so long that she was waiting to be indicted because there kept being newspaper articles talking about indicting all these people. Right. She knew she was one of the main people.

Went and got a lawyer, went down to the FBI office that I want to talk. I want to tell. I want to plead guilty. I want to tell you everything that happened. I'm going to prison for 30. She got 30 months. She only went for like 18 or 20. you know, because they put it in a halfway house.

But they were like, they would have never indicted. Everybody else who, everybody else who said, I didn't do anything, Matt did. They all told on me. But then they said, I wasn't aware of this. None of those people got indicted. She went down on her own. She was like, look, the guilt was killing. She was, even if you told me right now, you know, if I knew them what I know now,

she's like, I mean, the guilt was just, I was, she's every day. I was waiting, I was waiting to be arrested, waiting to be arrested. She said, finally she said, I just, I just had to get it over. I had to. Right. No, some people like that, you know?

That's hilarious, though. You'll love this. You've never met anybody so ill-equipped to go to prison. This is an upper-class white chick. When she was sentenced, you know, they had to let her,

she got to turn herself in. Right. She actually was, she had like, like they were going to, they told her, well, she show up and it was like three months later.

She called down to the camp to arrange, to arrange a tour. of the camp and the guard was like I'm sorry what and she's like yeah I'm gonna I just got 30 months I'm gonna be down there about three months but I'd like to go and kind of you know where I'm going like I'd like to like to know the layout and what what what it is to expect so I was wondering is there is there like a tour that I can take and then when we went no sweetie there's no that is hilarious and when she showed up three months later the woman like she showed up and she said something

happened. Then this woman comes out and comes over and says, hi, Allison. She was like, I'm the person you call about the tour. She's like, how do you remember me? He goes, we've never had someone call here and asked for a tour. In 20-something years of being there, never has somebody called and said, I'd like to come take the tour. There's the fucking tour. I wouldn't even know how to answer that if I was on the other end of the phone. She said, is it an Airbnb? Like, like, whatever? Anyway, Yeah, so, but that chick ended up going to, I mean, she did, I guess, eventually, you're right, she did get the tour. She didn't do it. You got the tour, right?

Right. Got the extended stay. But, yeah, you made the right move not letting them indictment you because. It would have been worse. Yeah, it would have been worse. Yeah. But the whole time, I'm like, a part of me is like, man, what if they were just, I mean, you know, what if they could, I beat it? But the simple fact is that a couple of.

of them. He's like, it's not about you beating a couple of the charges. Yes, it's hearsay. They're going to line up 12 guys. That's what he said. He's like, you know, and if more than one keeps saying, especially if offers gets involved, he said, you're cooked.

You're done. He's like, so let's just work out a deal for one. This incident, he says they may want you to admit everything you did as an STG, which I ended up doing. Right. Right. So that's why everything I talked about today, they really knew about they didn't charge me with it.

I'm not being charged with it. And I pleaded guilty to the one count and end up getting 24 months in federal prison. It's not even worth out in packing. I know. I know. You're still, you're still, uh, still shit in Burger King by the time you, you know, by the time you get out. Still dream, still dreaming of the outside.

Yeah, you're still dreaming of the outside. You know, it was, you know, in a way, I was kind of upset because I didn't, I still didn't learn my lesson at that time. at that particular time. Why? What do you mean? How much time did you do? When you went in,

how much time did you end up doing? Like, just under 24 months. Like, like. Well, you said you got 24 months. Yeah, but I just did a little less than that. Because instead of- Halfway House? No, they don't give halfway house to law enforcement,

so they give you house arrest. Oh, that sucks. Right. Oh, so you did like 19 months or something. You got like 18 months, 19 months? So almost like that. Oh, wait, no, no. Wait, hold it.

Yeah, you're right, 24 months. You only got off like maybe three or four months. That's it. But yeah, it's about 19, 20 months. Right. Okay. So what do you mean you didn't learn your lesson? What?

You were just defiant or you just felt like you shouldn't have been? In a way, I felt like I shouldn't have been. Right. You know, because it was hard for me to admit things that I do wrong at the time. Right. Right. I, growing up, I kind of quit. If things got hard, I was a quitter.

I quit things. I would leave relationships. I would move on to the next relationship. I always lied. I wasn't faithful. Just in anything in life, I wasn't faithful. And I always moved around. That's why I went to Detroit.

I just picked it up out of a hat wipe. I swear to God, nothing that landed me in Detroit, but me saying I'm going to move to Detroit. Because I always like to move around, even if it was just a different apartment. I can never be peaceful with one job. Like, besides the correction thing, like, just be peaceful with one thing.

always trying to move and look for something. I was trying to mask whatever I had inside of me. I was trying to mask it and make, make, you know, excuses for myself. Oh, this person, I'm not with this girl because she's a bitch. Or I'm not with this girl anymore because of this. Everybody else's fault. It's everyone else's fault.

And the whole time I'm running. I'm running and I'm running fast and I keep running. And I can never get away because, you can't run away from yourself following you. And if every problem that I had followed me right away and I was just, it was hard

for me to admit anything. I was just always mask it as a defense mechanism to not deal with the problems or reality. And it took me a long time. I'm not going to lie. It took me a long time to really sit down and really look in the mirror and be like, yo, do you want to be a jerk off your life or do you want to actually

account for something, like, be a good person, actually care for people. Go and talk to these academies and tell them everything that you did to not glorify it, but to make sure that they don't walk in the same step as you, ego, and, you know, like, just having an attitude and not caring for people, because compassion and life goes a long way. Right. You know? Do you feel, like, when did you have that conversation? Were you in prison or once you got out of prison?

No, once I got out of prison. I'm not going to lie. Maybe not even a year of feeling like this, you know? I burned a lot of bridges in my life with a lot of people that were good to me. And I just had an epiphany one day like. Yeah, maybe stop being a scumbag. Let's not working for you. Right.

Let's actually, you know, care for people. So be compassionate because it really does go a long way, you know. Yeah, I was going to say, I, but it's how my figure. that in prison. I was in prison. I still had like seven or eight years to go. It's like, no, no, I'm all better now. I'm, we can, but I still have seven years of prison. I'm like, maybe not act like an asshole the rest of my fucking life. You know, in one of your other podcast, you said something that really, like, resonated with me that really, like, hit me, right? Okay. You said, someone said, man, it was along the lines that it's an honor to be here and

it's a privilege and I look up to you or something along the lines like that. And you, you said, You get me all fucked up, bro. You don't like that. Yeah. Right? And you don't feel like you're worthy enough for that. Right. But that said a lot about you.

Like, I'm reading you, and I said that said a lot about it. And that's why I stayed in contact with you talking until this day, because it's not just because you have a high following or you're popular, you know, and it's not because you're successful. it's because I seen inside of you. I've seen something for you to say you don't feel worthy enough. It wasn't because you don't have self-confidence in yourself. Right. You know you're intelligent. You know you can do anything that you put your mind to.

You know that. No one here has to tell you that. But that said a lot about you as a person, very self-listing for you to say. And that's why what attracted me to you so much is because by you saying those little words, really like I felt a connection with you, because sometimes I wish, I don't feel worthy enough if I had that platform or just in general, but it's because I wasn't really living that way.

And that also helped me think like, let me be worthy of that. Let me change my life to be worthy of that where I can help people. I can give advice. I know what it's like to be, to be down, you know? And now I live my life where I was down. The only place I have to go is up. And if the elevators broke up, I'm going to take the stairs. Like, and I want to bring everyone with me up.

And not just financially, just spiritually, emotionally, just be a kind, harder person. But that really resonated with me when I heard you say that on your last, a couple podcasts ago or whatever it was. Yeah. Jason Brewer. Yeah. That was a podcast. Yeah.

Yeah. It was horrible. It was a horrible podcast, bro. He had me fucking just all in tears. Yeah. but uh yeah but it showed a different side of you show the different side of you yeah you know it showed that well it's easier to be to act like a prick all the time you know what i'm saying because you're masking something yeah yeah yeah you're coming off as a tough guy yeah you know yeah yeah like i'm a

tough guy but yeah yeah yeah like yeah yeah i know what you're saying you're trying to mask something you know so uh yeah he's yeah that was agonizing i i would much rather laugh and joke around and have, you know what I'm saying? And make light of stuff. Me too, but sometimes you need that to put your life into perspective. Oh, no, you definitely need it to put your life into, to be humble and appreciative of everything you have. Right.

Because, you know, it's funny too because when you have everything, you're less appreciative than when you have nothing. I know. Isn't that funny? It's crazy. You know, I read a book in prison, and it was a lady that was in Auschwitz, and she became a psychologist. I forgot a name, really bad a name.

She says a man doesn't know his worth until he hits rock bottom. Right. You don't know what you're about until you hit rock bottom. And everyone's rock bottom is different. But you really learn about yourself when you're at rock bottom. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely believe that. It's interesting on how we all take, you know, take all these experiences in, you know.

But you just got to learn from it. You got to help the next person. Right. So how long have you been out of prison? I got out in early 2020, end of 2019. Okay. Well, I mean, so what are you doing now, though? To be honest, I haven't really done a whole month.

Right. Like I said, I... What are you doing for a living? Construction. Okay. So I'm okay with on that aspect financially, but just finding myself, finding that inner piece, just, I was years of masking and denying, and I never really got to know who Brendan is.

So I'm still trying right now to learn who I am right now as a person, honestly. And I know it's a process, but that's what I'm doing right now. Yeah, I was going to say the Kevin with the suffering podcast, it was him and another guy. they'd both been in a police shooting separately. Oh, wow. And they both took early retirement because, you know, it affected them, right? Okay. And so they started this podcast to basically say, hey, there's officers out there that are suffering.

You know, that's a suffering podcast. And listen, they came here, laughed and Joe just had the best time. You can watch the whole thing, right? Like it's Kevin, and Kevin's the more boisterous of the two. And then the other guy, he's got a shaved head, right? his, Mike is a, I'm always positive with Mike. If I got it wrong. Mike Dowd?

No, no, no, no. No. But the other guy that was with him, he also had been in a shooting and a little more quiet, but still joking. They just had a whole little comedy routine going, talking about the suffering podcast. It's great. You know, it was good. And talking about how, you know, how many officers think about committing suicide.

Now he was suicidal and he was suicidal. And then, oh, they're all better now and everything's good. And now they're doing this podcast. and it's just life affirming and everything's wonderful. And, you know, I'm seeing his stuff and everything. And then one day I see something that it goes up and it's, it just basically, it's like, you know, rest in peace, you know, and something. And I was like, who are they talking about resting? And his buddy killed himself.

He said the next, the day before, talking, laughing, having a good old time. When Holmes took a fucking gun in his mouth and blew the broken brains out. had plans. Next Tuesday, we're doing the, I'll be there on the podcast. Everything's great. Everything's wonderful. That's terrible.

Oh. You never know what someone's going through. Yeah. You know, that's, that's unfortunate. And you can, you know, listen, joked and laughed the whole time. One of my favorite clips is where they were on a podcast and they were talking. And he said he gets asked, he gets asked, Kevin said he gets asked all the time. I'm like, you know, you've been around all these guys, these murderers and serial killers and real criminals.

And he said, they said, what's the most, the scariest guy you've ever been around? And he said, yeah, he said, Matt Cox. And he goes, what? And he said, listen, this is the kind of guy that shake your hands, be great with you, just a great guy. and just on a whim take every single thing you've got from you and walk away and not think twice. He said, I mean, it's terrifying. He's, I remember when I left his podcast, he said, I remember I checked my wall and I said, that guy is absolutely terrifying.

And I mean, and then the other guy, Mike jumps in. He's absolutely, he is because he could, the problem is, is that he can do it. And I mean, I'm showing this. I'm showing people and they're just, they're like, look, I'm sitting up and listen to this. And there's just like, oh, bro, that's horrible. I'm like, that's hilarious. Like, that's great. I made a TikTok.

We put it on the fucking thing. That's hilarious. Good thing for me. I didn't bring my while out that. No. It was funny. So why would you do this job? Like if the month,

you're not making that much extra, you're not making extra money on the side, right? No. Yeah. It's like, why would you put yourself, or why would anybody put themselves through all of this? You know what I mean? It just seems like,

like you get so caught up in it. Like, I'm doing this, this guy, this guy. And I'm thinking to myself, where's the benefit? Why would I do this? You know what I mean? Like what, you personally, what was your mindset?

Did you ever think to yourself, like, why am I putting myself in these situations? Or were you caught up in it? You enjoyed it? Did you have a good goal? I never really thought about like, why am I putting myself into it? Because at the time, like I said, I was in the moment. I was enjoying it. I was, you know, known.

and I had all these like responsibilities and it some of it was a little crazy sometimes, you know, and it was an adrenaline rush, you know, the fact that, you know, you can prevent a whole war from happening or you can start a war from happening or you can help the person, you know, like just totally change their life because not everything about me there was, was badass, you know, I would sit and talk to inmates too and try to help them. Now, I'm not saying I try to help everyone, and that's the reason why I had this job. No, it was just a job and I ended up just getting too into it. And then me being reckless and impulsive, I'm very impulsive. It was like I had no consequences. You know, at the end I did. Yeah, up until you did. Right.

Up until I did, but I was just free to do whatever the fuck I wanted. And if it's loved, you know, everyone loved it, including the higher ups until the moment I was indicted. Then it's like, oh, he was a rogue. He was rogue, man. I couldn't control them. Yeah. They got you guys got here. Like what?

You would call me and tell me you want this dude up out of here and he's up out of here. And I would look from you and what a smile. Like I'm a, you know, I was just being used. Right. Realistically, you know? Yeah, I was going to say it's, to me, I didn't even think to ask that because. It's an awesome question. Because to me, it's like, I can, I understand that because at first, you know, I could say, oh, I was committing fraud because of the money.

Okay. So your first thing is. if I could just get like 100 grand, then it's half a million, then it's a million, then it's two, then it's three. Then you don't, then the move, you just forget about that. And what you've just decided is that I enjoy doing what I'm doing and everybody loves me. And it's, it's a great feeling of power when you walk in the room and there's seven or eight guys go, but Matt, can I ask you a question about this real quick?

You're the guy with the answers. You're the guy that's making things happen. You're the guy that's pulling all the strings. You feel invincible. You're bold. You've heard, you've heard those guys. like the guy that says, you know, the guy the other day that we were talking to, or we did the interview and he said, every time I would, you know, he's like, I started feeling just emboldened

by the experience. So it's not the money, you know, it's, and I hate to say it's the power, that feeling of power, maybe it's just that feeling of being important and loved by everybody. And, you know, you're important. I'm the guy that can make everything happen. So it's not about the money, especially once you get the money. They're just like, well, why are you doing it now? You've got the money. Right. Because I just love that, that feeling of being the guy. that's calling all the shots. It's filling a void of something we may not even be able to determine on what it is, but it's a void inside of us.

Maybe that we keep just doing what we're doing because it's feeling that void. Yeah. You know, like you said. Right. Nice. Yeah, that's my really only question. Yeah. You addressed the other one because I was going to say, and I figured you would bring a full

circle because I read the comments on the Chad Marks interview. I was going to say, like, what would you say to your haters? Like to the people that are saying like, this guy's a piece of shit, like all this kind of stuff. But you kind of like, you know, you bring it full circle with kind of like, you know, your new perspective. Right. Yeah. Were there a lot? There was a lot of haters.

No, there really was. There really wasn't many. But sometimes I like to try to predict like what people might think. Right. There was actually, I was actually very surprised. There was more people that actually supported it and was like he's a real dude. He's telling the truth than the haters. Now, for the haters, you know.

know it is going to hate i can't i can't make everybody like me um you know and if you feel that way if you feel like i'm lying you know these you guys these dudes do paper paperwork checks you know nothing i said everything i said is authentic and like again it's not to be a tough guy i've been beat up plenty of times where inmates laughed at it but they know i'll get there and it's not about that it's just a respect thing you know and um well i'm you know what i was going to say is um the the the the I think people that haven't been to prison and I always love the guys who went to county jail for six months and think they've been to prison I'm gonna say this you're the fucking county jail you didn't go to prison it's completely different but it's you just

the the rules that are set up just they they can't keep things calm you know what I'm saying like you can't you can't expect that the rules of the prison will keep things on an even keel you know and you see the staff massaging the situation constantly. Right. You know, and sometimes they'll be super strict, but then things get so erratic. They, it's like the tighter, you know, you've heard that the tighter you squeeze, the more things slip through your finger. Exactly.

And so it's, it's better to, sometimes you have to massage things. And but then some people, like I said, then that one chick is like, this guy's such a problem. I'm going to have this guy beat his ass. And then he'll learn his lesson and he'll shut up. that went wrong. That went wrong. That was too much. You know what I'm saying? So it's that even... It's trying to find the balance. Right. Right. So, you know, your balance went bad. You know what I'm saying? My balance went bad. Yeah. And I admit that and I hold myself accountable for that. Well, look, listen, my wife has a whole thing when, I don't know if you know this. I'm sure you've heard this.

I think it's everybody probably heard this. Do you ever hear about the, there was like 13 women or eight, women. I forget how many women. They sued the federal government because they were in the camp, the female camp in the Coleman, and they were being by the guards. Guards, right. Right. Now, what's funny is that my wife was there. She knows every one of those girls. Right. And she's like, those girls would actually get into fist fights about who was going to date this guy. They considered them like, I'm dating this guy. This guy's bringing in stuff food for me. he's bring like now no matter what right you can't have sex with an inmate a female or an inmate in general you can't have sex like that's it's it's it's they can't consent it's it's

you're in charge of it's it's because you're a caretaker so you're but of course these girls are making it sound like he cornered me he me and of course my my wife's like I can tell you right now she would go in the room they would close the door I would be in the other room they would be like hey hey we're going to be in here for like that's the kind of thing that's happening like the girls are walking about who's fucking so-and-so, who's doing, like, this is not the situation that was happening, right? Like, there are so many things that happen in prison that are being massaged, you know, just like the thing where we had the guy that came on and that there's, there's riots.

They let them out. There's riot. They lock everybody down for three months. They let them out for two weeks. Boom, there's a riot. They lock them up for three months. They let them out. Boom, there's a riot.

At some point. which is unconventional, and you would be, every booklet out there would tell you this is, do not do this. At some point, the warden goes out and says, this shot caller, that shot caller, who's respected in these groups? And he pulls them all out and has discussions. It starts going between from cell to sell to negotiate a piece so he can take the facility off of lockdown. You know, like I need, I can't lock these guys up forever. Which is unorthodox.

Right, right. So eventually, but eventually he does, and guess what? These guys are out for 18 months. Maybe there's a stabbing here and there. Of course. You know, but it's funny. Like some facilities run, you know, it's, those are the facilities that tend to run smoother because you've got somebody that are keeping the balance. You know, the problem is, it's probably, the fear is that eventually you get out of hand.

You get us out of hand and you get friendly with the guys and then boom, you have a problem. But you had 18 months where nobody got stabbed. Right. 100%. You know, and. or the prison to run, you need, like you said before, policing themselves. So if they know that they're safe, where if I act too crazy, I'm going to be, I can say whatever I want, even though I know I'm afraid of you, I'm going to say whatever I want because I know

that the CEOs are going to stop it or something's going to happen. But the simple fact is that if they know, yo, he ain't going to stop it, maybe I'm not going to talk to you crazy like that. And that's just one example, or, you know, like bringing in contraband or stealing or extorting or whatever the case is. You know you're not safe because this dude's going to let the other dude bump. And now are you going to be as tough now that you know that the officer's going to let you, right? You know, that happens a lot in confinement.

When they're in disciplinary confinement, they'll be in confinement. Two dudes will be arguing, you know, they're both talking like their fucking Mike Tyson, you know? And then the next thing you know, the officers will be like, all right, well, you guys were annoying me for the past two days with this. I'm putting you in the cell in the cell together or for rec, you guys are going to share the same wreck cage. Right. And sometimes the inmates are willing to do it.

Sometimes now they're not so tough. Yeah, yeah. And now they don't want to talk so much no more. Was the guy, there was a guy, white Viking? Remember the white Viking? He had the shaved head. Yeah, I'm trying to think what, it was a Viking mindset.

Oh, Viking mindset. I never heard of hold him the Viking. Yeah, yeah. something like that. He had a thing where he had, you know, he was, you know, about that life. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that whole, you know, for years. But then he still got years to go and he got to a point where he was like, I'm done.

I don't want to be about, he's a problem is every facility I went to now, they're, the guys are like, oh, this dude. He's like, he's like, he's like, he's going to take care of business. He's got, and he's like, oh, shit. He's like, like he's like, my rep started following me. And then guys are coming to me saying, you got to take care of this. You got to this. He's like, I'm at the point where I'm like, I don't want to take care of it. Right.

He gets into a fight one. He's like, and then one time these guys come to him and they come in the cell and he said, so we're fighting. He's like, I'm trying to get out of the fight, but we fight. Because we're fighting. He said, listen, he said, fighting for a minute or two is a long fucking fight. Two minutes of a fight is exhausting. It's forever.

And he's sitting there. Remember he said he's had the guy in the headlock or something? And the guy was like, or was it? Brewerworth. He said, I'm sitting there and we're sitting there. He said, all I could think about was, where are the guards? Why? What's taking then so long? He's like, I'm fighting, hoping that just the guards will show up because he's like, it's been forever. And he's like, and I know they've got to be coming. He's like, finally they ended up coming. So like, you know what I understand. He's the whole time I'm sitting there thinking, please fucking do you guys show up. Please show up. Please show up.

I mean, it is a long time to fight. It's, it's exhausting. It's dangerous. You're fighting in a cell. Everything is concrete or metal. The metal toilet. The metal bunk. There's things that I think about now that I did. It's like, you know, I could have this killed or I could have got killed.

Like what was I thinking? Was it worth it? But you, everybody's heard that story with the guy. The guy gets three or four years and puts him to work. Guy ends up, they get into a fight. Guy falls, hits his fucking hand in the toilet and dies. Now the kid's got a 15-year sentence. You just turned your four-year sentence into 15 years, you know, or 20 years or whatever.

It's all nonsense. Right. Or some guy to, hey, go put in some work. Just stab the guy up. He stabs him in the wrong spot. The guy fucking dies. And now you got 20 fucking years. But nonsense.

Just for absolute stupidity. Yeah. And I fell into it. You know, I fell into it. Do you think being a CEO and going to prison? Do you think that worked against you? Do you think it helped you because you knew how it worked? Or did you get like, you know, push back from the other inmates?

Like, how do you think that changed your prison experience? Oh, yeah. How is the prison thing? What did you tell people going in it? Well, you probably went to a low, right? Right. Okay. But I actually went to Myelin in Michigan.

Okay. And the politics are kind of heavy for a low side, as I was told. But it's still a low at the end of the day. Yeah. So. Well, I'm not saying that there are things on. I saw as much violence in the low. I saw some of the bloodiest fights I've ever seen in a low than when I saw when I was in the medium.

Right. So I'm not saying there's not fights. Right. But you talk about politics. Right. Like are they heavy or not heavy, like a medium or two? Yeah, how much more danger? Because having an issue in the medium is a lot more dangerous.

Because they're willing to go further. Yes. Right. Yeah. No, they knew when I went in there. Staff knew. When I walked into my island, right? When I walked into my island, there was a couple of dudes walking in, too, off out of Oklahoma City Transit Center.

So they already knew. They already knew. And they, and they really, they said to me, Mr. F, D.O.C. We've been waiting for you. Oh, fuck. Right? That's the guard. And he's a country.

This dude was country. He looked old geeky and shit, right? Like this, like, excited to, like, almost excited to see me. But I don't know how to play it. Like, is he being a dick? Right. Or is he like, like, you know, I don't know how we took, how to take it. But he was like, he was like, we've been waiting for you.

I was like, oh, great. Thanks. And I end up going into processing by myself, which I'm, like, Like, yo, you're making this fucking hot, bro. And then the warden was there waiting for me. And SIS officers, right? And they were trying to say, oh, you're going to be in this dorm and this gang there. I said, I don't care.

I really don't want to talk to you. This is like, I don't know if you're trying to help me or not, but this is not helping me. I'm going to go in there and set the scene myself. And I'm comfortable with me obtaining my own information rather than you telling me. That's just going to make me, like, I don't know. I don't want to know anything. And one of the officers was real cool. He's like, dude, I don't know.

He's like, well, I got to send you into this dorm, but this is the worst dorm in here. He's like, this is not good. They're trying to give you a hard time? Because I made it, and I don't know if this is true or not, but the warden basically said, well, don't be coming over here, beating up my inmates or something along the lines like that. And he was wearing like a, like a polka dot bow tie. And I said, well, anyone, anyone that can walk around this prison with a bow tie, I think I like my chances here.

Right. Yeah. I don't know if that he, if that made it, that that comment like made, you know, him be like, well, fuck, I'm throwing to the wolves type shit. Right. And he was like, don't be telling anyone what you're in here for. But I already knew. They're going to find out. Dude, I'm not lying because I already did time at FDC down in Miami, right?

And everyone already knew, too. And I already know I went through Oklahoma City Transit Center with some dudes from Miami. So they might have been talking. to the other people. Now, I'm on the bus to my island now, you know, so I wasn't going to lie. Well, and the inmates are going to get your name. Somebody's going to run your name. There's got to be multiple. They already knew when I walked up in there. Newspaper articles about you were going to come on. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And they already knew. And they really, basically what, they didn't, they didn't really care.

Now, I'm not going to say they 100% trusted me, but I wouldn't even give them that opportunity, right? I had a seat in the TV room. Most dudes didn't even have a seat in the TV room. you got to sit in the hallway. You know, it's just. I'm shocked that you didn't go to, you didn't end up in Coleman because in Coleman. Don't forget, I was living in Michigan at the time I got arrested. So you were indicted out of Michigan?

No. I was, remember I left Florida, moved to Michigan, and then Southern District of Florida. I got indicted out of Florida, but I was living in Michigan. Okay, so it's closer to your home. Exactly. I was no longer living in Florida.

Your residency was in Florida. I understand. Yeah, I was going to say because at the low in Coleman, like literally, I was locked up with a guy named Junier, which was a dirty cop from Atlanta who killed somebody. Did he have a hard time? No. See, I seen a bunch of cops too. They have a lot of time. I was locked up with two, one, two, three, four homicide detectives.

No, not homicide detectives. I'm sorry. Police detectives that were in charge of drug cases. I don't know why I said. Narcotics. Yeah, narcotics. I was arrested with one guy who was a DEA. I had been in transit with a cop, cop.

It was the same thing. When he got to Oklahoma City, because we were together, we got there. We went into the room that we talked about. That same type of thing. When he got there, as we were getting there, he told me, They're going to pull me out of here. And because I've been locked up in the facility with him when I, so I was in transit. A couple days I knew everybody was a cop.

And then we're in the van together. Now we're on the plane together. Now we're, so we're basically together the whole time. And I know he's a cop. And then when we got there, he said, fuck. You could see them out, the lieutenants and everybody outside. Right. They're through the window.

You could see them all go together, talking, talking. There was a whole ball of them getting together talking, talking, talking. And he's like, fuck, because they're going to pull me out of here. I was like, why? He said, they go. They always pull me. He said, he did like a year in the shoe already because they didn't want him mixed in with population. So he's like, he had to file paperwork to get taken out of the shoe and put in general pop while he's waiting to be sentenced.

You'd already been sentenced. What? So at the detention center, basically, they put him in the shoe for that long? Yeah, the whole time. He had to file paper. He had a lawyer had to file paperwork to have him put into general pop. Anyway, so, and sure enough, if they didn't come over, open the door and call out his name. And he was like, fuck, he went out there, talked to him for five minutes and came back.

And they were like, listen, we don't feel comfortable with you. He's like, I don't care. He's like, I file paperwork. I'll file it again. He's like, I'll this. You cannot keep me in the fucking shoe the whole time. I don't give a shit. And I don't really, and I don't know why they were so harsh with him.

I think it was just because it was transit and you don't really know who's in transit. Exactly. Right. And so anyway, they did let him back in. And eventually, I don't know what prison he went to, but I'm sure he went to a low somewhere. But yeah, there was a bunch of cops that had been, that were at the, low and I don't feel like any of them you know cops can handle themselves you know what I'm saying

correctional officers could handle themselves you know what I'm saying like they're like oh you're in danger like yeah not really because you I don't know there was a bunch of guys there was a Boston cops there was you know Illinois cops in there and listen and the press is not come like when you get these fucking articles on these guys the press is not kind It's fucking horrible And the comments for the press Is like one guy's like

Lock them up and throw away the key I'm like well I'm out now bitch Fuck you You're saying that Yeah You know It's hilarious though You gotta laugh at them

But no I wasn't And I didn't feel like any because of that situation Right You know what I mean Not at all When I first got arrested I was at the federal detention center It was I forgot what holiday it was

They put me The captain wasn't there And it's actually his call or not, if you go to general population or not. So they pulled me in through them processing and put me in to protect the custody for three or four days. The captain came and said, yo, what's up? What you want to do?

I said, I can't do this. I tell you that. Like, I've never been in the cell before. This is the first time I'm in the cell. I'm having crazy freaking, like, dreams that the fire, the freaking fire, you know, alarm breaks and the pipe burst and I'm drowning in here because, like, I'm having crazy losers. Like, get me the fuck out of here.

He was like, yeah, but you're in general. popular population i'm okay yeah so he ended up putting me in general population and um it was actually a a high profile floor with some interesting people that were there and it was half of that and then half of psych so in in this and in the eastern region for the bop they only have like two i believe mental health evaluation centers one of them being more up north i believe and the other one down and berner is butner one maybe butner but i know for a psychological evaluation before you're actually sentenced, they will send you, and one of them is in Florida. So we had like half of the people from all over coming for a psychological evaluation,

and then half of it was like high profile. There was like a rapper. There was a serial killer, a guy who was killing people down in Florida with a samurai sword. There was a cartel dude from Venezuela. And now we're starting to see the effects of Venezuelans. People didn't ever heard of how dangerous they were. years ago, I already seen kind of what it was with him being in, uh, being locked up there. Is Venezuela where they just locked up, locked up everybody?

Is that the one where they built a prison that holds like fucking 10,000 or 100,000 people or something? No, I don't think that's Venezuela. Okay. But Venezuela basically released half of that prison because they know the borders were open and they all came here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the Venezuela thing. Yeah, those dudes don't play. They're going to release you, but you got to start walking.

Right. Those dudes do not play. Yeah. They do not play. But it was interesting because in Puerto Rico, their detention center is very small. So if they have an overflow of inmates, they have to send them to Florida. Yeah. So there was one dude.

I've totally forgot his name. I think they called him Yogi, Puerto Rican dude. He was a Nyeta. And he went in for like maybe 10 years, but then ended up killing a correction officer, being part of a correction. And he was, had to go back to Puerto Rico. for a court case. So he was at the ADX. Went to Puerto Rico,

then was going back to the ADX, but he's staying at the detention center now in Florida, because I guess Puerto Rico was full. Killed a correctional lieutenant. I'm sitting in here with him. We're working out. I don't know what he did. He doesn't know what I did.

Eventually we start talking. We, yo, we were so close. We would eat together every night. He didn't have much money. I would give him. Yo, but we told each other what we were in for. And we just was like, yo, how life is ironic.

He literally killed a lieutenant. Correction officer, lieutenant. And I'm sitting here like fucking best friends. Isn't I have like full circle? It's crazy. It was crazy. That conversation, you know, so what did you? I killed a lieutenant.

Hey, I used to be a lieutenant. And I don't know how he wasn't in the shoe when he had to go back to the ADX. But, yo, it was so fun. When I found that, he kept the lieutenant, he didn't tell me originally. And he knew what I was in for. But he acted like we would work out and would eat. And then one of my friends was like, yo, this is crazy. He's like, he killed a lieutenant.

I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I'm like, get the fuck out of here. He's like, yeah. So we start talking and we just like were laughing about it. We were laughing about how ironic the situation is, you know, like how weird it is. It was funny. One of the things you're doing now is you just started, so you started a YouTube channel, right? Yeah, Brenegate, Breneged show.

What is it? Brennigade show. Brennigade Is that it? That's the whole thing, Brenegate? Or just Brernegade show? Berenegade show, yeah.

Okay. And so you're going to put up an intro, and then you're going to put up some videos, and you've got, so by the time this comes out, you'll have several videos up. Oh, yeah. You'll be getting into it. Absolutely.

What are you going to focus on? Like a broad view, but where I'm not stepping on any toes and being different to saying my side of the story on, I guess you can say, you know, an ex-dirty officer's view on what I would do to certain inmates on how I feel on what I would do in certain situations. Some common myths that some people have about corrections. You can try to break that. Get into both sides of the life on how there's politics on both sides that you only hear about the inmate politics. and what the inmates would do

if this inmate came in here, you know? Before you get to the inmates, you got to come to the officer's side, you know? Give some hacks for officers and inmates on certain things like cell extraction, on how to beat a cell extraction, you know? It's so good?

You can't do it. Yeah, you know what? That's probably not a good idea. I was going to say, put baby lotion on you, you know what I'm saying? Certain things. They'll do that. They'll strip down and put baby lotion and shit on them.

But another way to beat it as an officer. Oh, as an officer. It's sprayed a fucking toilet with the water, right? Because, you know, like, when they spray it, they use the water in their toilet to clean their face. But if you spray the pepper spray, now they start doing it. And now they're wiping their face with the pepper spray. Pepper spray, yeah. Are you going to interview, like, former inmates?

former inmates and and current and current correction officers see about policy and how they how they run how they work maybe some of their identities would be you know changed a little bit I don't know if it's against their policy but I already have a couple things and works and just holding people like I'll be accountable you know like um it's okay to mess up you know we all start from the bottom and work back up. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so get notified videos like this. Also, please go to Brendan's YouTube channel. We're going to put the link in the description. So click on that. Go to his YouTube. He's going to have videos up telling his story, interviewing people. So I would appreciate if you guys would go there and

follow him. Also, please consider joining our Patreon. It's $10 a month. We're going to have a full podcast of this interview on Patreon. It's over three hours. It's filled with a bunch of really interesting stuff that didn't make the cut here. Please check it out. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Oh yeah, it's only $10 a month. See ya.