Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Prison Experts Break Down Elizabeth Holmes 11 Year Sentence

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Prison Experts Break Down Elizabeth Holmes 11 Year Sentence

I always love this quote from Adolf Hitler, which was called, he was a big believer in what's called the big lie, which was you can tell a, if you tell a lie and it's big enough and you say it often enough, people will believe you. And the victor will never be asked

if what he said was true. So if I lie about everything I'm saying, And I win. It doesn't matter because no one will question me. Whatever she's going through right now, I'm still wondering if she's in any kind of like denial, if she still thinks somehow she's not going to go, which wouldn't be unrealistic for her to feel like that right now.

She might still think there's some way for her arsenal of attorneys to get her out. She's probably very frustrated that she's going. She probably did not think she was going to go. There hasn't been somebody that I can think of that's been such a big name that seems so innocent and harmless. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Dan Wise, also known as Ardap Dan.

Dan is, he is, I'm going to say, go with an expert in sentencing and helping to get people's sentences mitigated or get downward departure on their sentence. on their federal sentence, and we are talking about Elizabeth Holmes, and we're going to go over a little bit about, you know, basically the case in general and what caused to be fraud and how she ended up with a slightly higher than an 11-year sentence, which I think is unreasonable, but only in comparison to other sentences. all right but and we're going to figure out exactly what happened and why why it happened and we're going to talk to dan right now so i appreciate you guys checking out the video look like a guy that uh that that that knows about sentencing um we've we've done a bunch of we've done we've done a bunch of videos and stuff and so we know each other and this that's just for people that don't realize that we know each other um and i was you know i was in coleman and i went through the art app program and you went through the art app program and we've had countless several discussions on it and um and i asked dan if he'd do this video that is all true that is all

correct statements matt i concur this far so uh elizabeth holmes and theranos yep um she got 11 what 135 months something like that basically just over yeah yeah yeah just over uh 11 you got 11 years and change. So the company, so I guess what I wanted to kind of talk about. And it's funny, I've actually talked about this before. I think I've talked about this before on a lot of concrete or something. This is when it was all kind of happening. Like we talked about it briefly, but, um, and I talked about, I think I talked about it with a wand too. And, you know, she, her whole thing. So, so Elizabeth Holmes, uh, went to, uh, went to, Stanford for what like a semester and dropped out she's apparently she's from a family that's

you know that's wealthy uh grew up in a wealthy upper middle class neighborhood went to Stanford decided while in Stanford that she wanted to start a medical company what she wanted to to actually create altered you know it changed a few times and but eventually it became she wanted to create a a system that would allow you to take a drop of blood, test that blood, run it against 200 different tests that you could do from the privacy of your own home or your doctor could do right there in his doctor's office. And it would give you the results within whatever, 20 minutes to an hour and would allow you to have a glimpse of what's really going on with your body and allow them to very quickly

diagnose, you know, whatever issues you were having at that time. And she thought, that that was possible. However, every expert she spoke to said, it's not possible. And in her mind, well, then that just means that the technology hasn't been created yet. This company will create that technology. And through a childhood or a neighbor that she kind of had grown up was she got some initial seed money, started the company, dropped out of Stanford and raised, started raising money and she was very very young at this point very young she was uh she started coming she was 19 yep and then she slowly started taking on a persona of um that mimic that mimicked uh steve jobs which you know to me was is is odd like she's a pretty girl yeah i think she's a pretty girl i think

who was i talking to talking to someone else about it and they were like oh bro she's she's not pretty she's homely and i i i think she's attractive um i agree so some guys just don't like that that uh i don't know i wouldn't call it a boring look but it was i don't know she wasn't putting like three pounds of makeup on in botox and she was just she was relying on her voice to get yeah she deepened her voice she did deeply right i think i read that oh not just that they have clips of her where she had maybe had a few drinks or she was in the middle of a conversation and she would drop it she dropped the deep kind of baritone voice and suddenly her voice would go from this too so you know we're really excited about

and she'd be a normal girl for like 30 seconds and then it'd come back and they brought to childhood friends and family members that are like yeah i don't know what's up with her voice why she she doesn't sound like that like they would say she doesn't sound like that this is it's an it's an act maybe when she gets released from prison the full transfer the full transformation will be done and she will be bill gates we don't know she um what else so anyway so let me keep going just for people that don't understand i don't know how you couldn't know about this but i think a lot of people don't know about it it's it's boring unless you care about these things well i think the problem is and you mentioned this earlier

is that most of these people will raise money and they just go nuts right but she didn't she worked 80 hours a week she genuinely believed that this technology could be created and she would be able to come up with this machine and it was the whole it's the whole fake it till you make it thing right which has been which has been kind of the the pivotal point and the pathway throughout Silicon Valley for generation after generation there's been I think that's part of the when this whole thing kind of hit the ground and we were wondering if she's going to be found guilty or not guilty

on both sides of the spectrum, all of the men that have gone through Silicon Valley that have kind of faked it till they made it, I think they wanted her to get away with it because now it's just going to open up. Now, every time somebody comes in with a groundbreaking technology or software with claims, because she raised, what was it?

She raised $700 million and had a $10 billion evaluation on her company with false claims. But they're saying there's been a lot of things that have happened similar to this case throughout the decades. The problem is, is eventually most of these individuals, unlike her, were able to actually create the technology. So before anything got too far out of control, they were able to actually have whatever it is they were trying to do. She never got that far. But now on the flip side, the people that wanted her to be found guilty are because they want a tighter microscope on industries and big tech companies that pop up that are. collecting, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in investors' funds.

Right. It was kind of like the FTX thing where it's like, you know, nobody did their due diligence. And that's the big thing with her company is you just, you tell me your hedge fund lent her 80 million or 200 million or 20 million. Nobody did any due diligence. You allowed her to give you paperwork that said the company was worth this much and that you had caught,

Like, you understand, she told them they had, when she borrowed money from, I was doing her different pitches, she would tell them that, that the technology and her machines had already been on, you know, had been deployed in the field. Right. It was military. That wasn't true. Right. She fake demonstrations. And you know who's like literally like set up a set up the machines had investors come in. They'd prick their fingers.

Put the blood in the machine. Then she said, well, here, let's go and have lunch. Go have lunch. They run the fucking samples. And they came back. They go, oh, here's your results. So they go, oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah.

The blood wasn't ran. No. And you got to remember when you were talking about the beginning of this, you know, this wasn't just for like doing your, your blood panels. These, this was supposed to revolutionize knowing, like, if you potentially have cancer, if you were going to, like, this, the dispositions this thing was supposed to roll out, was supposed to give you such a bird's eye view of like the schematic. of your entire system so you can potentially cure yourself well before there was any seriousness.

So it was a very easy sale, I think, for investors. And if you look at a lot of these pitches that came, a lot of the people that were backing, like a lot of these people that gave their money weren't just giving it to Elizabeth Holmes. The individuals that would go out and do the pitches that have recommended a billion other companies in the past. They were the ones that were endorsing this. So they're like, oh, well, if Dave says this, is good. We've gone on Dave's, you know, hunch a million other times. Let's jump on board. It was a very easy money grab. Yeah, I was going to say she, and look, the concept is, you know, it's a brilliant concept, you know, if it worked. He built some of the nation's largest

banks out of an estimated $55 million because $50 million wasn't enough and $60 million seemed excessive. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crimes, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. I think it will work. Obviously not through Pyrnose, but if nobody was pushing this technology before, Jesus,

now first person to get to this, it's probably bigger than going to the moon, because the first person actually has this now, we're probably going to see a whole other, giant news month about her years from now when this technology really does exist. Well, I watched a video on a guy who came up with a company that does something very similar. Now, they're not saying we can do 200 tests. They're saying it can run about 30 tests on these diseases. And he lays it out. And then he says, it doesn't go on one pinprick of blood.

He's like, it is. You do need, and I forget what it was, it was like 50. You need 15 little things of blood. Like he had a whole thing. He's like, but the technology, it's still semi based on what she was hoping for. But she was promising these outrageous superhero type stuff. Yeah, you can't, you can't do. And this is all of these different, think about all these different people are saying, like these are experts.

These are scientists are saying, that's not possible. And of course, she would mock them by saying, well, that's what they're doing. they're mocking me and that's what they do they mocked you until eventually you change the world or you show the proof right do you think she would have been as attacked if she had been a man no i think oh if she had been a man i think it would have been worse i thought you're going to say if she'd been a man she probably would have figured it out um i was like please don't say that be here right now dan you think you think if i don't know i i believe if she were a man there wouldn't have been i'm trying to think of the guy's name i had it uh who's who's the

reporter that is the one that outed her um oh the guy from a the guy from bloomberg uh no it's not bloomberg it was or something like that the wall street journal guy yeah i forgot his name cario or or something his last name is i don't know i feel like uh just because when you look at a lot of these other people that were in similar situations to her that never really got dragged through the mud but if you go back and look at some of the artifacts through the time that the timeline of when they were creating a lot of the stuff that's out today when they were getting this money they they hadn't figured it out yet i don't know if they lied flat out wide so they did but steve jobs faked multiple presentations

when apple like the night before they were rolling out like some of the software and or some of the some of the um computers when they were they're they're starting to manufacture these things The software still didn't work. Didn't exist yet in its functioning. You're writing it that night. They're changing things the night before it's, they're going to be loaded up. I mean,

so. But was there, you know, hundreds of million dollars collected to, to do you please? Ultimately, it did work. Right.

Yeah. And also, if your computer doesn't work, like you don't die, you know, or you don't start getting treated for cancer or getting treated for, um,

diabetes because you think suddenly you're diabetic and one of these guys was like it said he was diabetic yeah he's he's ready to go to people people who have gotten all I mean they could have received the wrong treatments the wrong medications um man how do you think she let it go so how do you think she'd let it get so far out of control I just he was she was too far gone in there to stop it would have just would have been the admission of guilt would have been too drastic at that point I think, I honestly think that once she was on that road, she couldn't get off. And I think at some point in time, she had to have known, after spending several hundred million dollars and hiring some of the brightest people out there, that they were telling her it just couldn't be done.

And she's continuing to pump in money. I think at some point she must have realized that it can't be done but I can't turn around now because the whole thing goes so now I need to try and keep it going as long as possible

in the hopes that technology catches up to my dream. Now I think that makes her I think what happens is that's like finding out halfway through an investment that it's all a fraud. You don't say it's like you start a,

become an investor in a Ponzi scheme and halfway through the scam, you realize it's a scam. Does that make sense? Yeah. Now, you can either say, I'm going to go to the authorities and I'm going to lose my $2 million or $5 million that I've invested or I can try and help raise more money for the for the scheme and pull my money out. Right. Pump and dump. Right. At that point, you're now one of the scammers. This turns into just a big old Ponzi. And that's what I think happened here. I think halfway through, she probably said, hey, you know, we've got this Walgreens. We're pitching Walgreens.

Yeah, I think she thought she could buy enough time to figure it out. Right, right. I don't think she ever intended just to leave it the way it is. I think she really believed she was going to be able to figure out the recipe to moms. Which probably explains her extremely light, what I consider a light sentence. but um you think she feels that way oh no she's a privileged white chick that thinks that to be honest with you i mean i also think it's i also think she got to that point where well one like i said she she probably decided i just going to keep going forward in the hopes that it will

work out but i also think that her starting this company at 19 years old her saying this technology can be created her lying multiple times saying they had a working prototype that it was working and the technology works we've got visor signed off on it it's already being used by the U.S. military but these blatant lies

I feel like even as a kid she must have been she had to have always kind of been a little scared in the back of her mind yeah yeah it's got I mean at the very least it's got to keep you up at night you know because eyeballs were on her like super glue yeah i think i think you know it's so funny

when when she finally got to the point right so after she starts faking these trials and the money really starts coming in um and she gets the money from walgreens Walgreens gave her $140 million to put these machines in, referred to exclusive deal to put the machines in their stores. Suddenly, then she comes out on CNN, on CNBC, Fox News. Forbes does a massive article. Fortune does a massive article. She was worth, then of course they come out,

they say she's worth $4.5 billion. Yeah, she was the youngest female supposed billionaire at that point. I mean, I think she was just, she hit that road and she just couldn't turn back. And like I said, she, like we both said, she was hoping that she would be able to pull it out. So, or pull it off, pull it out. Pull it off. So what I'm wondering about is, so eventually it all goes down, right? Like, so eventually her whole thing falls apart.

This is after years. She's running this company for what, like a decade? Yeah, this was a very long process. It was 2014, $700 million. Investors were results in $10 billion valuation.

And this was 2013 and 14 throughout the fraudulent claims of what this testing equipment. Yeah. So I mean, she was, this is the type of money she was raising back then. It really did take a long time. Well,

so she eventually, Eventually, that the article comes out in the Wall Street Journal, and it says that there's some serious problems with the machines. There's some serious. The technology doesn't really exist. Nobody really understands how this is happening. And people start asking questions, and the whole thing starts to fall apart. She's indicted in July of 2018. There's a couple superseding indictments as they really look into the paper, look,

into it. And then eventually, here's what kills me. She went to trial. Why do you think she went to trial? Because, you know, they'll stack the charges,

right? She's indicted on like four counts of wire fraud for deceiving investors. But she could have gotten something like, was it like 40 years or something, 40 or? Yeah, I mean, if you look at, I don't have the,

I don't have a patient in front of me right now. But if you look at the charges that were dropped or that I'm sorry, not dropped, that she was not found guilty on. I'm not sure what her initial, if she was offered a plea agreement, I'm not sure, I don't know if you have in front of you, but what her charges that she could have pled to. I think it's very similar. I think her being found guilty is almost exactly what she probably would have.

I don't think she risked much because she's ending up at about the same. So in her case, why not go to trial if you're only looking at this type. I think her attorneys knew what could stick and what couldn't stick. And as you know, a lot of times when the feds come after you, they hit you with everything, hoping you take a plea deal and when you take a plea deal, they'll drop a lot of those charges that probably wouldn't have stuck going through trial. She spent enough money on enough high-priced trial attorneys, not just criminal defense federal attorneys from trial attorneys that knew there's a good chance that the feds are going to drop,

or not drop, a lot of this won't even won't make it to a guilty verdict in trial. And knowing that the guidelines of what she was going to be found guilty of by the jury was probably not that different of whatever plea agreement would have been. So in her case, it was like, you might as well see if you can knock some more stuff off and maybe you can get them to feel bad for you because you were, you know, a young female that was taken advantage of by an older business tycoon. Right, right. Yeah, that's that was her whole defense was. That was her whole defense. Yeah. Sonny.

Ball. Yep. Took advantage of her. And he was the one who was a bully. and he was pushing the button or pushing maybe he was we don't know but that's i i don't think that's an excuse to because you clearly she wasn't a ditsy naive dumb person she's very very smart you know you can't be you can't get compared to bill gates and once i did single oh it was a helpless female in the other sentence right right and look it's not like this guy was right there

with her all the whole way okay you're and and here's the funny thing it's like at some point she fired him right so you fired him and kicked him out and he can't come even come back in the office so how much danger were you in yeah it's going to be interesting to see what his sentence is yeah so so okay well i mean typically here's the problem is that typically what happens is the feds will come to you and offer you like i know i can't tell you how many guys i know that are in prison um Andrew levinson i've mentioned him on different podcasts there's a guy donovan davis um there's multiple uh doctors that I've known for in a for pain clinics that like they come in and the feds have offered them like

three years and they're like I'm not fucking taking three years I didn't do anything wrong and then they go to trial and they get 19 years or they get you know 17 years like donovan davis they were offering them a couple years a few years and he ended up with 17 years uh Andrew leavenson ended up getting I want to say 16 or 17 years and they were offering him three years. right so you know a lot of times it doesn't go that way no you're right right you did have good attorneys i think a lot of times though um i've had a couple clients in the consulting we had one that he was a pill mill doctor uh he ended up his sentence ended up being i think it was like 65 years it was a chunk of change but the plea agreement he was offered prior to sentencing

about about a year before he was sentenced he went to trial obviously it was like a seven or eight year plea agreement which still seven or eight years sounds like a long time um the thing that it seems like the the defense missed in this guys not not not elizabeth but my client's situation was there seemed to be a really really strong presence of mental health issues that weren't really being touched on um he it was almost like he he could not grasp the the weight of what was happening of the severity of it like he went when we were telling him like you go to trial you're going to lose i mean everybody's attorney's everybody and he was i'm not guilty i'm not guilty and it's like he was he was guilty of some stuff i don't think he could

seven years sounded like too long and then when he got sentenced to 50 something years sure enough it's my attorney didn't do this my attorney didn't do that and it's like it's sad to watch because it's it doesn't happen that often most people will end up it's not like you get in trouble today and you're facing 50 years i'm like we'll take a plea deal and we'll only give you 10 it's not like it happens in an overnight process to tell anybody that's never been in trouble before if they get in trouble today like well if you sign a plea deal tomorrow you only do five years five years doesn't sound good no matter how much time you're looking at yeah but when time goes by and you've been dragged this case has been dragged on for a year 18 months 24 months you start

to realize five years still sucks but there's going to be a life to live after five where there's not much of a life to live at least mentally after 20 30 40 years so when these people are faced with this and time does go by and that doesn't click you got to wonder like what's going on in your head there's no way you're just you're so proudful there's there's something else there preventing you from from taking the the best possible outcome and some people just won't do it well i think i remember being locked up in georgia with this guy who had ran a hedge fund lost like 15 million dollars you know and he was just like he couldn't get out of bed he didn't want to take a shower he was depressed he was and guys were like bro what is his deal

you know he's going to get they were offering him like five or ten years and the you know the problem was I was like we you know you have to understand how far he's fallen he doesn't know anybody like you're taking private jets you're taking vacations you're living in a two three million dollar house you're living up here to suddenly having to go and spend five or six years in a federal prison, like he's fallen a lot further than anybody else sitting in this in this pod right now. Right. So it takes a while for it to sink in, you know, that what he does.

It does. It takes time to, it takes time for that to digest into your, I can live with this bank. Yeah. I think if they arrest you right away and throw you in jail and you don't get bonded out, out, you come to that realization a lot faster than you do, sleeping in your own bed, having sex with your wife. Yeah, I'll tell you, see, I, you lived. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio.

Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Because you were, you were taken from the time that you got in trouble, right? Never got, never got probation. I mean, I never got let out. Right.

So I'll tell you, I was on supervised release, what do you want to call it, pre-release supervision. It's been so long. I forgot what it's called. And you would think, this is what I tell people, you think because you're out and free that you think you're better off being out versus the person sitting sitting in county jail waiting. And yes, you are to an extent, yes.

all those things you just said are true. But at the same time, there's this mental prison, dude, that is so, because you're living in this, what seems to be a free world, but yet, like, your buddy might say, hey, we're going to go skiing next week, and we're going to go camping next month. You can't make any choices that are further than, like, 30 days out because you don't know where your life's going to be. So you're partly in this free world with this daunting, you don't enjoy any of it, is my point. you're sitting at home trying to enjoy sitting on your couch now when you finally do like in my

situation when i finally did self-surrender got sentenced turned myself into prison i've been out from 2011 until 2014 when i got to prison to coleman federal prison it felt like the worst place in the world because comparing it was comparing it to my couch yeah people that are sitting in county jail for the last 18 months they get to federal prison to them it's almost like they're being let free to an extent because you're not going from your chill house to federal prison, you're going from shithole to federal prison. So there is a psychological fuckery on both sides

of that. Yeah, guys, guys, I couldn't understand when we were in the county jail, guys were like, man, I just want to be sentenced to go to prison. And I kept hearing and I was like, why do you keep saying that? Like, in prison worse than this? And they're like, are you serious? Bro, this is the hardest time you'll do in the county jail

or in the U.S. Marshals lockup. They're like, bro, you don't understand. As soon as you get to jail, like you can go to prison, you can go to commissary you can eat ice cream you can drink coffee on track there's no you're not behind a prison cell anymore you're not hearing the doors clank they kept and they kept everybody kept saying like bro you don't understand it's a small city it's a small city like you're going to be in like a town yeah it's town filled with criminals but you can do stuff you can go to the library you can go work out you can join the band you can learn to play an instrument like they were like they made

it sound like a like a shitty summer camp but a summer camp just the same and it was in in a lot of ways it was and that's why i i don't know i don't know like we all know the media out both things out of control for for headlines for ratings or subscriptions clicks all that stuff but cbs news judge who sentenced thereinose founder elizabeth holmes recommends she serve her time in a prison camp and of course camp is in parentheses um people that don't know that read this they're like this is not fair she should spend her time and just because she's rich and famous doesn't mean she should go to some fancy club fed. It's not fancy.

I know, but what do you think this headline? This headline, that's only intent, is to make it think she's going to go to somewhere else that other people wouldn't go committing similar types of crimes. Yeah, yeah. Brian, Texas, I think, is where she's been recommended to go to. He wants Khan Bank of America out of $250,000 using nothing but a fake ID and his charm. he is the most interesting man in the world I don't typically commit crime

but when I do, it's bank frog stay greedy of my friends support the channel join Matthew Cox's Patreon first of all that the judge's recommendation they listen to it but it doesn't mean you're going there but we do know she's going to a prison camp yeah well also she didn't she didn't kill anybody

she's a non-violent crime so but that's what people need to understand explain that explain that to people that are watching right now that who else would go to a prison like hers it could be the way you're living next door you working at walmart who you know over the last 10 years pocketed some money from the register yeah going to the same place she could be uh elizabeth holmes bunky right right and and you know here's the thing like we were well back to her her sentence right she got 11 years so for a minute let's just talk about the sentence so when she got sentenced the the probation officer which does your your pre-sentence investigation report right which is a it's a it's a report that takes everything into account and recommends to the judge what your sentence should be right

so they go and they investigate uh or they talk to elizabeth they talk to her lawyer her friends her family um they they look at what she was found guilty of because some of the charges she was acquitted of which were the charges where it was putting it was conspiracy to endanger the life of patients or something they dropped those charges because they said that they didn't believe the jury didn't believe that that was her intent right because the one thing during the trial that came out was she did a very good job and her her team or her of attorneys did a very good job explaining that she wasn't a scam artist, although I think she was a scam artist, but they were basically saying, look, she thought she could borrow this money, she thought

she could get, create the technology, she thought this was going to be a viable company and system. She really genuinely wanted to change the world and she never meant for any harm. Did she lie? Obviously, she lied about some things. Many, many entrepreneurs lie to further their agenda but ultimately when they when they pull it off nobody questions them nobody questions steve jobs about all the bullshit that he pulled right in apple and you know what this is funny i'm going to give you this quote i always love this quote from uh adolf hitler um which which was he he was a big believer in what's called the big lie which was you can tell a if you tell a lie and it's big enough and you say it often enough, people will believe you. And the victor

will never be asked if what he said was true. So if I lie about everything I'm saying and I win, it doesn't matter because no one will question me. And that's true. You know, I mean, I'm sorry to be quoting Hitler, but, you know, but it is, it's true. And that's her whole thing. Like, I can lie and cheat and steal. But if I ultimately pull it off, nobody will question how I got here. Right. And that's true. So I think that's the...

She was just something she got there before the investigation got there. Herst fell apart way before she got there. And so now they are questioning and that's where it all falls apart. But ultimately she was acquitted to some charges and then the probation officer created a precedence investigation. report which said they wanted to give her like nine years they suggested seven or seven to nine years or something and that's that's because there's discrepancy with with money losses and everything else so when they when they did the calculations on the same the same calculations that the government did they came up with with different a little bit different guidelines um but she had put the but her

her guilty plea that's why i think that's why the judge kind of like jumped in the middle of that he wasn't giving the government they wanted he wasn't giving her what she wanted. Right. I don't think the sentence was unfair. I mean, I don't know how much more time she should have got for what she was found guilty of. Her guidelines just, you know, if you'd have found guilty on everything, then it would have been a different, probably complete, but also, you know, I think, I can't remember,

I think the government wanted a lot of this to run concurrently consecutive. They wanted 15 years. The government recommended 15 years to the judge. Right. The judge said 11. 11. Because of what the government was basing theirs on and what the pre-sentence report came back with. Obviously, the defense wanted to go with the pre-sentence report because it was better for them. So I think the judge just split it and gave everybody a little bit of what they wanted, which is pretty common.

So, I mean, I, and listen, honestly, like, to me, bro, I mean, look, I've got. got 26 years and four months, I never say the four months, because I don't want people think I'm whining, 26 years, four months for my pre-sentence report actually said 9.5 million in loss. Right. The night before I tried to take my plea back. I said I was not going into, because my actual pre-sentence report said 32 years to life, 30 years for the bank fraud, which was the maximum they could give me, two years for identity theft. for 9.5 million in loss. So I wanted to take back my plea agreement.

They came to me and they said, look, here's what we'll do. We'll say not nine and a half million. We'll say less than six million. Right. So, you know, nine million, nine hundred ninety nine, you know. Right. So I was like, they said, that will bring you to like 26 years. And then they drop one other charge, or two other charges.

There are two other enhancements, which were like bullshit. But. So I played guilty to 26 years and four months for six million in fraud. She was found guilty. Now, granted, she wasn't charged to bank fraud. The maximum she can get is 20 years on wire fraud. She was found guilty of four counts of wire fraud. You went to trial.

You didn't say, you never said you were sorry. You never said you fucked up. You never said it was a scam. You've never taken responsibility. And I hate to say, bro, it's, I'm torn. I want to say 20 years. She should have got 20 years. But I also think, look, you give her 20 years.

Like, what do you give somebody who raped someone? Like, what do you get? You know what I'm saying? So I think it's important though, Matt, not to look at it in comparison to apples to apples. That's the problem is, you know, you got the sentence. Do you think your sentence was fair? Or do you think it was a little? No.

I think I should have gotten 10 years. Okay. That's what I'm saying. But do you think a lesson for Elizabeth Holmes, do you think it's going to take, do you think whether she was given 11 years? Do you think she's going to learn something in 20 that she won't learn in 11? No. So then, I mean, I get what you're saying.

And I think punishment is just too stiff across the board in general. I don't think hers. Honestly, I think you could give somebody like her five to seven years. and they would probably never do what they do again. She's never raising money again. Nobody's ever doing her anything again. Be fucking surprised, bro.

You never know what comes out of all of this. I've seen, you've seen crazier stuff too. That will be a fun episode 10 years from now when she gets her next billion. But the sentencing guidelines, and they're so high, and they're very backwards.

Like if she would have, if she would have murdered somebody, she'd be looking at not too different of a sentence. getting caught with a little bit of drugs she'd be looking at the same type of sentence but when you start to do things like what you were doing when it's like not the white collar fraud it's more the blue collar you're like the guy with a bandana on running around

you were only missing a gun that's the only thing you were missing and they they would have been able to lock you up forever you were just a dick about it you're on the run plastic surgery they really want and i'm pretty sure they believe you weren't doing it to try to fix the world now i i for her i think it's like i wish this idiot would have taken a plea, we probably would have gave her probation or something, but she made it, she made it again, like that

chick with the storming the capital, Jenna Jenna Ryan, you make a spectacle out of yourself when you drag it through a media like this has just been dragged through the media for the latter. Everyone's been watching this for the last 12 months.

Yeah. So the judge had to give her something. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You know, the more I think about it, the more I think maybe, maybe it's fair. But, you know, the great thing is, is that, like, I don't, let's face it, you know, I, I didn't sit, this always bothered me, like, I didn't sit through the trial. It's kind of like the, um, it's kind of like the, um, the thing with McDonald's where

remember the woman, this happened 30 years ago. She got, coffee. Yeah, the coffee. Everybody got so offended by that, that this woman made like three million dollars or two million dollars. And, and what they didn't realize. was first of all it does sound outrageous but you weren't

sitting in the jury box right you didn't hear what really happened and when you later find out it was brutal it was fucking brutal it was brutal there's reconstructive surgery on your yeah it wasn't like she burned her tongue and she's pissed and McDonald's had been repeatedly told by the

I forget the food and drug administration lower the cough that lower the temperature of your coffee it does not need to be that high and they'd had multiple um a lawsuit and you wouldn't do it okay well then guess what you you get fucking then you pay three million dollars yeah yeah yeah any right now anybody's watching this hit pause and google woman that sued mcdonalds for hot coffee and it will show you you'll see the graphic videos of like it they spilled it giving it to her through the window and her chest was burnt her i mean it was just it looked like she was lit on fire for a little bit.

It was not a pretty sight. Right. It's ridiculous. And there was no benefit to McDonald's to have the coffee at this temperature. No. You can't, I mean, you can't even drink the coffee in your car.

You've got to wait until you get home and put ice in it. So, yeah, it just, anyway, I mean, so, you know,

that's the whole thing is like it sounded good in the media. You know, it was a great little, you know, click, you know, click bait. But in the end,

it was bullshit because the people that sat in that jury heard the whole evidence and they determined now fuck this company yep they're unreasonable especially they had so many warning signs before where this could have been avoided yeah and they'd also fought it several so many times and won multiple lawsuits you know this woman was just so egregious she actually was the first one that won yep so it wasn't that she was it wasn't her as much it was against just McDonald's in general um so yeah oh i have it right here it's funny i have it right here Probation officer wanted nine years, the U.S. attorney wanted 15 years, and Elizabeth Holmes got 11. So when she gets to prison, first of all, can I mention one thing?

You have to admit how irresponsible it is that she gets pregnant twice. That's good. Everybody thinks, you know how common that is? And people think that's going to get you out of going to prison. It does not get you out of going to prison. no it's to me that's just a that's just an extremely selfish yep um irresponsible thing to do yep and so you get pregnant once then COVID hit so you get this huge extension on when you have to go to trial and then you go damn it I've already got this kid he's growing up I'm going

to have to have another one let me get pregnant again so you get pregnant again go to trial now they're going to let her stay out to have the baby and spend some time with the baby. Yeah, that's a little bit, that's a little bit, uh, I would say that's something her money probably did buy her because they have, they have prisons. Um, I think it's one in Alderson. It's designed has like a women's area where, where you can give birth there. It may not be Alderman. I may be incorrect on that, but there is a female women's prison in the feds.

You get time to have a special area. You get some time with your kid. Um, so. yeah that that that's a little odd but still i'm telling you right now she's not enjoying her life right now she knows the clock is ticking and she may try to get some more extensions and file some more motions i'm sure uh because if you look at her case there's there's a million filings on there i've never seen a docket so long um but people right now are like oh she's she's living her life it seems like she is but she's unborrowed time she can't really enjoy it's

very very the land of the purgatory right so jessica kent didn't get they didn't let her get out and have a baby no no they sure didn't they sure i think she was already i think she found out she was pregnant in prison right did she i don't i don't know what a way to find out you're pregnant fuck what's that guy keep feeling this movement around there oh i'm pregnant i guess so bloated um yeah um so here's the other thing what do you think so when she goes to prison so when she does end up going to prison, right? Like, how do you think she gets treated? Like royalty.

I mean, she's going to go, they're recommending Brian, Texas, which is probably where she'll go based on, you know, her, where she lives and whatnot. But even she doesn't go there anywhere she goes, these are all going to be, for the most part, first time nonviolent offending women that are all on somewhat of a short sentence that have all committed some sort of a, definitely a nonviolent crime, whether it is a white collar money crime or low level drugs or theft or you know whatever it was they're going to be like her and the chances are like when mike the situation jersey shore when he went to prison uh he was a celebrity in prison and he was also very humble in prison he was helping people work out but he didn't have to

do anything like there's a little as you know in prison you got these chores you got to keep your area clean you might have a job she's going to have somebody doing all of that for or another inmates going to do it for some extra commissary or whatever. But prison's probably not going to be bad experience for her. It's going to be very similar to Martha Stewart's experience. Martha Stewart was at the prison we just said, West Virginia, Alderson. So, you know, it's going to be very comparable to what Martha Stewart's prison sentence was like, just a little bit longer. I don't, and on the length, I think she's going to find a way to get out through CARES Act or COVID relief. I will be surprised if she spends more than a couple of years before she, before she gets to the

door through something COVID health related. It'll happen. Yeah. So the guy Ron Wilson and in Coleman had gotten ended up with 19 and a half years. I remember him. Yeah. And he got out after I think it was eight eight or nine years because of the first chance out. Yeah, first step back through CARES Act with COVID and everything. Right. So he got out. I mean, I know a bunch of guys that I had gotten out. But you're not seeing as many people getting released now because a lot of that was also because there was no vaccination readily available. So you had all these people that were at health risks for the cohabilities with being

overweight and diabetes and all of these different concerns where they thought the COVID test, I mean, the vaccine could help with that. And now they're even proving even when you get the vaccine, you're still susceptible to getting COVID, transmitting COVID. so I don't know how they're going to view view that with her in there if she wait especially if she goes in is it when's her her surrender date is it February I think so but maybe push back yeah so let's just assume right now it's the first quarter of next year there's no signs of COVID disappearing anytime soon it only seems to ramp up during when we get back towards like the warmer months of the year so she'll go in during the winter time by the time the warmer months I would not be surprised if you you don't see motions filed asking for CARES Act compassionate release to finish the remaining of her sentence on home confinement for whatever list of variant reasons they're going to give. That's definitely going to be coming down the pipe. Doesn't she have to have served

like half of her time? No. Well, so CARES Act compassionate release is through the BOP prior to the First Step Act, which when Trump enacted first step, prior to that bill being passed. Anybody that tries to get compassionate release had to go through the Bureau of Prisons. And the BOP denied you. Ultimately, when the BOP denies you, you're done. There's nowhere else to bring it to with the First Step Act in place because Congress realized that almost 99% of everybody that was requesting compassionate release through the BOP, everybody was denied, no matter what the reasons. Very, very few people were ever approved. So Congress made it now. if you exhaust your BOP remedies

which you have to request it through the BOP if you're denied or 30 days goes by you can now take that motion and go back to the court but you just have to exhaust her remedies first so it's very very possible that she will attempt it much before her 50% is served in the BOP because why wouldn't you?

You know the BOP is going to deny you and if you can make a strong case in front of your judge and the judge if you read some of the judge's statements it's very clear the judge had no ill will towards her. He He's giving her a sentence based on guidelines, but he went on record stating he does not think she did this out of greed. So if the attorneys are smart, right now I'm sure they pulled all the transcripts. Actually, I saw the transcripts already ordered, which would probably be part of her appeal and all that.

Going through all these transcripts, looking for any type of, not favoritism, but showing some sort of love or support coming from either the prosecution or the judge towards her, they'll use that when they start rebuilding their purpose. of why she should be considered for a home confinement, compassionate release through the CARES Act. So will it get approved? I don't know, but they're definitely going to take a swing at it. Okay. So I noticed that you don't, they don't release. So right now, like when the,

right now the articles that I'm reading, none of the articles that they're all like, oh, there's this much worth of loss. But there's still a second, there's a second. of like a trial to determine what she owes investors. Like there's not a specific number right now for what she owes the investors. They're doing a second trial. Right. But this is civil though, right? Is this part of the civil to determine what she owes or is this going to be attached to her criminal? No, this is attached to the criminal. Like right now she doesn't have a specific number. They're saying like seven over, there's hundreds of millions of dollars, you know, roughly 700 million

or something like that. But there's another little sentencing or trial or whatever to determine what they believe she owes for restitution. That hasn't happened yet. It's going to be high, whatever it is. Well, I was going to say, like, in my case, I didn't get that prior to, like, that was something that was done. Said in stone already. Yeah, exactly. Like, they walk in and that was back when the U.S. government could just say, he owes this much money.

you know now you have to have to go through like everybody you owe has to provide an affidavit this is what I gave her this is what she returned this is what I'm still owed and then they can argue about how much they think they should have earned for what she had promised them you know there's a whole little trial that happens now to try and determine what that number is right so that still has to happen they were saying that was going to happen in a few weeks but it's not affecting her guidelines I mean I think that was part of being that's what I was going to ask you like obviously that's not affecting our guidelines right because they're saying what potential loss or they're going off of potential loss and not actual loss um I'm there's going to be an actual I mean because the conspiracy the actual and intended loss could be two different numbers but whatever the judge is going to come up with I'm sure it's going to hopefully come down to the actual loss I hate when you see intended loss end up being what somebody's got to pay back because you know the ghost money the ghost dope thing all all of that to me to that's an overstep of the law with that kind of shit was reserved for like bringing down

the mafia where you never had the man call the shots pulling the actual trigger in this situation I think intended loss would be it would be a stretch um actual loss is still significant uh the lawsuit she had with uh with Walgreens I think it was I think they settled on like what was it 50 million or something like that is what they settled on um so I don't know where this other I'm sure there's going to be a settlement that's going to be in everybody's favor but it's not in her favor, obviously. No matter what about the money is going to be, it's going to be a very large sum.

And it's not like she's ever paying it off. You never know, bro. Or $500 million? I mean, it depends what it comes down to. And also, you know, her family, the guy she married, they might be able to come up. Maybe this is why there's no number yet. Maybe they can come up with a number that everybody agrees on

and in their thought process saying, hey, look, if you can get this paid, when we come in either an appeal or when we come to try to request, you to be moved to home confinement through CARES Act, if we can show that you've paid all of this off or at least made a substantial dent, it could play in your favoritism. And people will come up with whenever they think

an amount of money can get them out of prison, they pay these ridiculous sums. And then when it doesn't get them out of prison, they're extra aggravated. But I would imagine she's going to find a way to come up with quite a bit. Through some source. Jesus.

I can't imagine. um yeah listen for that kind of money you can sit in jail like um you know if you were my daughter and i was like listen i i get to visit you babe 11 years goes by real fast have you signed yeah can you give me the i am 400 million 400 million i can get another daughter i can hire an actress that will pretend to be you i can get so many pregnant and the kid would be like six by time you're home we're good i'm not that's insane i'm not giving fucking six million six hundred million dollars um yeah no no uh okay so yeah yeah yeah prison prison life for her is gonna be pretty chill um even even in a you know what was it a hundred how many months

uh 11 years you said 135 135 months what they gave her so 135 times 0.85 times point 85 that brings her to 135 right 135 times 11 years and one month 11 14 months she gets a little RDAP in her life 102 months first step another year 90 months

maybe she gets full halfway house a year she's looking at 78 months that's not so bad it's like a car loan she'll be home before she knows it car loan You'll still be shit in McDonald's, Elizabeth, you'll be good.

Could you, I, listen, oh, you just right, you did turn yourself in. You actually drove in and turned. Yeah. And yeah, I couldn't do it, bro. Yeah, it was hard. I drove Shelly first and then a month and a half later, drove myself. Why did they give you, why did they let her turn herself in first? She was sentenced before me.

And the judge gave her, her self-srendered date of August 11th. And they gave me my surrender date of September, September 2nd, but I didn't go until the 23rd because I got an extension. Oh, my God. And you just turned yourself. I just, I'm like, hey, guys, I'm here. Where's my bunk? Let me in.

I can't wait to go to prison. That's how I felt. It's like, woo, part of time. Clubbed. Where's my tent? Yeah, I heard you guys have, where's the golf course? No golf course here. You remember that, did you ever, did you ever go on the compound when they were doing

over by the sea unit where they had the tent the i don't know the tribal guys they'd go in there and sit in the steam room did you ever go in there no you mean the pretendians they're supposed to be indians they have like there was them and also what was it the thor the guys that prayed a thor and stuff oh did yeah so what what people don't understand is like in federal prison like basically any religion you want they can't stop you from something insane and so some of these guys like there are indians and to be an indian you just have to say i'm indian you can be jewish too yeah or you can say i'm jewish yeah so if you have if you're a member of better food right if you're a member of certain religions you can get special meals special privileges so some of these

guys they say they're indian they they actually have like like a 60 foot by 60 foot chain linked off area yeah they could go and they could smoke the piece pipe they got like tobacco And you know some of these guys were... No, come on. They're ridiculous. They would have special ceremonies. They had a sweat tent. What do you call it?

A sauna, whatever. A sweat lodge. I don't know what you call it. But they would bring in like the hot rocks and stuff and they'd have they burn the wood. This sounds like this makes it sound like fun. Yeah. They had marshmallows in there. I'm sure they did.

But they did. But you know, the problem is in Florida, though. It's already so hot. Oh, you. these guys are in there i'm like i can't smell good in there they come out looking like just like you pass out and die so so they would be allowed to go in for a few hours and do do things that other inmates weren't and then so that's like the indians but the thing about the indians is nobody in that was a part of the indians were indians like these all just like white

guys yeah to call them the pretendians oh you remember the pretendians and they'd be like yeah and they would they would do like oh whoa whoa whoa whoa they would like little they They actually did things to keep up this persona. But the Odinism guys, they had the same thing, but they had all these, they were all carving these little like Thor toys and Odin and on their bunks. And I'm like, you guys, I never even knew it was a real religion until prison. No, no, they would have the hammer. They would carve little hammers and have it.

Is it fair to say that was most of them also may have been a little racist? Oh, oh, yeah. No, it was a, it was a, um, it was a white. It was like the, the white. Yeah, Boziac says it's, Boziac always says he is, he is, it was, it was a bunch of Aryan brotherhood guys. Yeah. He's like, these guys were all, like, they tried to get him to do it. They tried to get him to do it. I was like, dude. Actually went to like one meeting and they were passing around like punch or something and they were, they were praying to this and praying to that. And he said, he said, I was. He said, I was. like yeah listen you guys i can't do this they all had that same like very white pasty look shaved head horrible just blue outlined tattoos just it was like like go be a better crew than this you guys look like you guys are better than this and your trailer park must have been cleaner than this so it's going on here and i'm norwegian like they're they're they're odinous i mean it's a real religion like that is i know that now i kings were odinous yep but i mean you've seen it you've seen

Thor, his father's Odin. Yeah. You know, they had the hammer, they prayed to the hammer. Our unit was right next to it. So I was always just watching. I was never once going, oh, I'm so jealous. I was always like, who the fuck did they fool?

Who believes they're in there being Indians and Odin? They're in there like talking about their next escape. This is just crazy to me. And then you've got the Jews. Yep. Most of them, a lot of them were authentic, though. A lot of them, but a lot of the guys would, I would say. They're a lot of fake Muslims.

Yeah, I would say there's 70, 80% men, the Jewish guys, you know, were Jewish or had some kind of Jewish heritage. But the Jews made, they made you take a test. Yeah. You actually had to be, like, approved. You had to go in and go to the rabbi and answer the questions. And then they got to order special food. They had a special meal.

They had a bunch of different stuff, too. Yeah. Yeah. They, they were food and stuff and all the meal holidays, the prayer. Because a lot of them couldn't eat during certain time, the Muslim side. I mean, they couldn't eat during certain times of the day when they were doing their fasting. They'd have to eat between like 10 and 11 at night. So they get brought food at night.

And I was always hungry, so I was glad to eat it. Well, then you've got, so you have, that was a low. We were both at a low in Coleman. And then you've got camps. Camps have even, they have typically have no fence. Typically, there are ones with fences. And then you've got, you know, you've got one or two officers, maybe three officers that are supposed to be watching 300 guys that are in a separate

building. So you're even more on your own. Um, but that's where Elizabeth, like I never got to a class. I never meet me nor nor me, but that's where she's going to go. And she's, she's going to do whatever she's going through right now. I'm still wondering if she's in any kind of like denial. If she still thinks somehow she's not going to go, um, which wouldn't be unrealistic for her to feel like that right now. She might still think there's some way for her arsenal of attorneys to get her out she's probably very frustrated that she's going she probably did not think she was going to go but 11 years probably sounds like the end of the world to her and i mean it is a long time you matter how you look at it but she's still so young you know she'll be

gone five six years and if shit goes right for her with the compassionate release and COVID and all this she might be home in two or three which will piss off a lot of people but but yeah she's not going to be there for a very long time right but she didn't kill anybody yeah she's not You know, I don't think she's going to go out and re-offend. And like you said, who's going to give her money again? You know, she'd have to change her name and all that stuff and go through that process. And I think she's got enough family money. I think she's just going to go live her days in the shadows if she's smart.

She could write a book about how to raise venture capital as capital. Listen, and people would be like, oh, my God, like, you definitely have experience. Yeah. I think her book is probably going to be. how everything she did is not that different from what everybody else is done and you know

this should be a cautionary tale to others that are that are out there in the land of, of a startup and capitals and, and yeah, but she would have to admit in the book

that what she did was wrong. Or she'd have, I'm sure her side of the stories, even to this day, I'm sure she believes what she was saying. I imagine, I imagine if you, if you, if you scuffed away all of the, the documents and the legal mumbo jumbo, I bet there is some undertone advisor, whatever you want to call it.

That was like, yeah, this is going to, we're going to get this. And she's seeing all these claims being made that, that there's no proof that this works. And she's going to the, she's like, you sure you're going to be able to get this done? And like, Elizabeth, we've got it. It works. Trust me, it works. I just can't believe that she was well. aware that this thing had no

possibility of working, she must have thought it was going to work more than just hope. I think. I disagree. You think she was that just like, fuck it, I'm just going to keep going with this lie. At some point, I mean, where, like,

it's got to spill over it somewhere. I've known, first of all, I've been caught by institutions so many times and never stopped. So that's my, so that was my frame of mind was I got out of, I got, I got caught and talked my way out of it so many times and just kept going. So I know that, that, that mental, you know, stance. I also have met and spent enough time with Ponzi schemers and guys that ran, you know, business opportunity scams and pyramid schemes that, you know, to, even when it's like, you're running a completely fake company raising money or selling a product that is ridiculous

and that and and it's not worth what you're saying and it doesn't perform the way you say and you keep selling or and raising money and you did it for like for I've known guys who did it for a decade like you did this decade you get caught pay him back get caught quash this like you're doing nothing but putting out fires and they never thought about just kind of you know what happens we get to a point right and I think what happens is you get to a point like what would her recourse have been one day she's she realizes you know what I can't do this it's not going to work so here's what I'm going to do I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to go to the FBI and I'm just going to tell them what I've been doing and that I

don't think I can pull it off and I'm just going to say what am I charged with and plead guilty because that would have been a recourse to admit that she'd been lying this whole time. It's never going to work. And at that point, so she would have said, she said, hey, here's what I'm going to do. She hoped she could pull it off someday by continuing to raise money and someday maybe it would work. I think that's, I really do think that's what it was. And I think it just was a scam. And I think it became obvious.

It was a scam. And she just ran with the scam. That's what I think. So, you know, she's. It's possible for sure. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, I could be wrong. Listen, I've been wrong before. But either way, she's got her, her immediate future handed down to her. And now we'll see what rich, white, and powerful looks like when it gets sent to prison to see if she can buy her way into a shorter sentence. That's, that's going to be the next thing. We're going to see how this plays out. If she really going to spend that much time in prison, or is she going to find a way? There hasn't been somebody. that I can think of that's been such a big name that seems so innocent and harmless,

that has been a spectacle going into the prison system where there's a lot of people that probably would like to see her do her time on home confinement. So it's going to be interesting to see how this kind of mushes through the system. Hey, so I appreciate you guys watching about Elizabeth Holmes. And I appreciate Dan for helping me out. Appreciate it. So do me a favor for like the video. hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this. Leave me a

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