Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - PRISON RDAP PODCAST GONE WRONG!! W/ RDAP DAN

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

PRISON RDAP PODCAST GONE WRONG!! W/ RDAP DAN

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I mean, what, what do you mean? What does it matter what you're doing? Maybe you should start, you know, can you vacuum? Can you do anything else that's loud? Please stop. Vacuuming is louder, bro. I thought you said you weren't going to run your mouth. Jesus fucking Christ.

Are you serious? Hey, this is Matt Cox. And we're back with Dan Wise. We're going to do a podcast on Art App, the Resident drug drug treatment program drug resident art app so close resident a resident resident residential drug abuse program we'll go with that okay geez oh wait a minute hold on wait a second oh no I'm back okay so here's a so actually this is a so I wrote actually wrote a book about art app and yeah this is awesome this is gold right now

Oh, this is good because, so I did the program, like you did the ARDAP program, which is a program in prison, you're in prison, and if you have an addiction problem, right, then the judge will recommend that you take the ARDAP program. If you pass the ARDAP program, you are eligible to get a year off your sentence. Certain people can't get them if you were convicted of a violent felony or you have a gun charge where for some reason the Bureau of Prisons considers having a violent crime. Like if I have a gun, if I get arrested and then they search my house that's 40 miles away and they find a gun in the closet and they charge me with a gun, then I have a violent crime.

I now have a violent, I'm now like a violent criminal, according to BOP, right? If it was in the commission of a crime, if it was in the furtherance of a crime. So if like if you got arrested for, say, money laundering. Okay. Well, then, yeah. And you had a gun, but you're allowed to carry it, that wouldn't. Right. But if you were selling drugs and then found a gun in the present, the parameters. Oh, really? Oh, so see, I knew guys that got charged with a gun. They got charged with a gun because they found it like in their house. And they said, oh, you had a gun in commission of your crime. Probably because they were also had drugs or money or something. Right. They were arrested for drugs, but they didn't have a gun on them. Right. They found the gun 30 miles away in their house. Right. Yeah. That would be considered a violent. Then it's not a violent crime. It's because there was the gun enhances. You get the two level enhancement. for the gun, its furtherance of a crime in a drug crime.

Right. So now you can't, you can't. You can't take the program. You can't get the time off. Right. So anyway, when I was in county, you know, all the guys, before I saw the, the PSI person, the probation officer, they said to me, hey, everybody was like, look, bro, if you say that you were addicted to opiates or something, I was like, yeah, but there's no history of

that. Then I've got to, nobody's going to believe that. Like, I've never done opiates. And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter. matter, bro. It doesn't matter. Like, if you just say it, then they'll, if you just say it, they'll recommend it. The probation officer will put it in the report, and then the judge will recommend you take RDAP. If you get a year off. So I took the program. I actually took her twice. And so I was eligible. And while I was in the program, I, you actually did

the program before I did. We were Ed and Coleman at the same time, but we didn't know each other. I actually wrote a book called The Program. So, yeah, It's, I'm going to give you the book because, bro, if you read this, everybody that's read this that did the program, it just dies laughing. They're like, because I do this whole thing. Like, it's basically like a cult. It was a whole, had a cult atmosphere because you're walking around scared all the time. And everybody's, everybody's watching you.

All the other participants are watching you. This is hilarious. Is there anything you haven't written a book on that? Listen, my whole prison experience is really well documented. It really is. It really is. And look, in here, I talk about. being like it starts with the prologue starts with be being in the morning meeting and everybody

starts chanting um listen uh I'm committed to my treatment for the betterment of my life through the morning creed through community as a method humbly I present myself and I just I go on and I remember how the first time I heard that like 150 guys chanting that I it sent what was that 150 guys about 100 guys in a lot of guys in the big TV room shot look it was like it was like electricity shot through my body was so fucking bizarre you know but anyway so you went there you took the program yeah and because you had because you had what you had a drug issue right marijuana right yeah yeah which i didn't you know consider a didn't consider a drug abuse problem but um i i remember saying that in the in one of the uh not the morning meeting but you know you'd have your content groups

and the process groups i remember it wasn't me, it was one of the other inmates said something like they lessened marijuana from like opioids and man, the DTS is the drug treatment specialist. They basically labeled marijuana just as bad as heroin. There was no separating the two, which I guess for some it can be a gateway to others. But yeah, I had a nightly marijuana problem where I would smoke weed before bed every night and that's what ganged me access into the program. But for those that are watching, the judge's recommendation to the program doesn't guarantee it. It doesn't even help.

Oh, really? It doesn't even matter. The judge could say, I'm not even going to recommend you for this program because I think you're a con artist, Matt Cox. As long as it's in your PSR, the pre-sentence report, it's up to the R-Dap coordinator, like at Coleman. Was it Dr. Smith when you were there? Of course.

Right. So it was up to Dr. Smith to make that determination. Where people fuck up, though, in that pre-sentence report is they don't mention it, but then a judge will recommend it. And if it's not in the pre-sentence report, even with the judge's recommendation, sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of thought, I mean, I knew it had to be in the PSR. That would be in the revised version. No, no, I mentioned it in here. Like, I didn't say it wrong in here. I just said that it was in the PSR and that's how I ended up in. These are even the, you even, these are actual bracelets from. I stole them. I had, I had the, of course you did. I asked

if I can have mine. So they wouldn't let, oh, did it? Yeah. They wouldn't. I had to twist. No, no, they were when I, so they were they were taking them from people would leave they'd take them from they tried to take mine but i went and asked dr smith there's any way i could have them she's like why do you want them i was like i mean i had dr smith um i had dr smith um her assistant i had him steal them for me i was like man i can't i did she keep them here her assistant was an inmate assistant yes of course yeah i said come on bro the teacher's pets course um the golden the golden child yes yeah he was that was an odd situation like you would be so who was it uh Tamayo?

Were you there when Tamayo? Nick? Is it Nick? I don't know. He's Hispanic. Yes. He was there when I was there. Super nice guy.

Yeah. So, and so anyway, the program, so basically real quick, so you go to the program, you're taken out of, so if Coleman's made up of, let's say, what, 12, no, 16 units, no, 12 units, 12 units. Well, yes, A, B, and C. No, it's A1, A2, A3, A4. Right. But it's A, B, and C. with four units to each one. No, no, those are houses.

So you've got the housing buildings and each one has a unit. Right. Or four units. So you've got 12 units total. So what happens is they take you out of the unit and they stick you in one unit, which is C2. C2.

And that's the ARDAP unit. So you've got like, you've got like a hundred guys in that one unit. What are you doing? Me? Yes. Fuck all. Please stop. Please.

I mean, what, what does it matter what you're doing? Maybe you should start, you know, can you vacuum? Can you do anything else that's loud? Please, stop. Vacuuming is louder, bro. Oh, my God, bro. Okay. All right.

So anyway. So here's what's happening. Fuck all. So basically they stick you a hole in a unit and they have everybody go through. The morning, you go to the morning meeting. Right. And then after the, was what, an hour, two hours? It's like an hour and a half, two hours, yeah.

So you go, and that's humiliating. It's a horrible experience. And then after the morning meeting, they break you up in different groups. Content group. Content groups. You have to take different classes. Yep. And then it goes on until what, two o'clock, three o'clock?

No, 11. At Coleman. It goes on to 11 o'clock. No, no. But then you come back, you have to come back after chat. I mean, you have to come back and do. Unless they changed it. When I was there, you'd go to your morning meeting from,

like seven to nine right and then from your morning meeting you'd go to your content group right which would run until about lunch right and then you'd come back and the day was over they'd have like no they have they always had different committees but they weren't things you had to do it wasn't like it was more of like i you're talking about like the 101 groups and like yeah yeah you know then you had the one day a week you had the you had the process group right right that was the who that was the rough one so there's no escape in that no it was so and then of course you have books and then you have homework. Yep.

So every night you have homework. And the homework, it's like everybody would say, well, homework's not hard. The homework wasn't difficult. It was like, it was childish, but it could be hard. It's designed for a seventh grade reading level, which makes it sound easy, but it's based on like, well, let's take you, Matt Cox, who is an intelligent individual. And then we'll take somebody who's, who's no education straight off of the street.

The expectations are different for you than it would. be for the guy they can't write his name right the guy that can't write his name right they literally want to see him color in the lines yeah i got in so much trouble with the books because i was like they don't read these fucking books so in like book two or book three i just kind of but i just bullshitted my way through it so they came around the content group at the end and they said uh we're going to call your name and uh come turn your book in come turn your book in right so they did that the next day they came back they said all right we're going to give everybody the books back so they gave everybody the books back so they gave everybody the books back

like three of us. I didn't get their books back. And like, if you didn't get your book back, please stay. So I was like, what the fuck? So they called me in for a meeting. I got teamed. Remember the teams? Yeah, yeah. They teamed me. And I remember Dr. Smith hands me the book. She's like, Mr. Wise. I had Dr. Smith was there. Ms. Neesmith, Ms. Anderson, Mr. Herrera, no, what was his name? Was it? Um, Herrera. I don't know, I'm thinking. Um, there was, okay. Yeah, yeah, Hernandez. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, why do you, why do you think you're being team today? And Ms. Neath, Ms. Neesmith was my DTS, which she always looked out for me.

She wouldn't lie for me. She just made it clear. She liked you. I got your back if you don't fucking lie. Right. So Dr. Smith said, she hated most people. She hated, like, she was bipolar. She was, she had her favorites. And then she had people that she just, they could do no right.

So they rushed us through this book at the last part of it because something happened where the unit was shut down for several days. So we had to like finish. a week's worth of work in like one day. So I almost made the excuse of the reason why my bookwork was less than. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants.

Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. We had to rush, which would have been an excuse. And this Neath Smith says, remember, choose your answer wisely. Right. And I said, I didn't think anybody was going to look at it. Right. I didn't really put any effort into it. And Ms. Anderson's like, Ms. Anderson hated me.

She wanted me gone from the get. And Dr. Smith was like, that's about the only answer that would be acceptable. And it's like, oh, my God. I almost got kicked out of that class so many fucking times. And what happens is, what you have to understand is that the fear factor is overwhelming because this is, they have, Dr. Smith has the right to knock a year off your sentence. So it's like, so people, people are like, well, what's the be deal? It's just a program. No, I have to pass the program. I get a year off my sentence. I could get an extra six months to a year of halfway house. So I might get six months halfway house and a year off my sentence. That's 18 months off of my sentence. Right. Oh my God. Yeah. So some people got two years. Some people will get a year. I got more time off my sentence than I actually served in prison. Nice. And if you think of the visual aspect of RDAB. So yes, you can get a year off when you graduate. But they they technically take. the year off out of the gate.

Yeah. It shows your release. You basically get in there. Yeah. So it's like thinking about that being taken away. If anybody's ever watched any of the like Survivor or any of those game shows, it's one thing to play for $100,000. Playing for a year of your life.

I compare it to Survivor in him. I compare it to Survivor. Because it's exactly like that. Right. And we had different, we had names for everybody. We had archers. We had gladiators. We had stealth people because everybody.

Sleeper agents. I think you got a raccoon in the house. Sleeper agent. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. The, what was it? The gunslingers, like guys that would literally stand up in the morning meeting and say, I want to pull up Mr. So-and-so, and then the guy would stand up.

They had like no clue. We'd be like, you're a gun, this dude's a gunsling. He's just fucking, bow, bow, bah. And he's, you know, hey, I'm calling you up because, you know, last night in the bathroom, you didn't shut off the water. And you're not, you're not, I mean, it was that bad. it was that bad yeah it was it was uh i thought i had it all fucking figured out man i couldn't wait to get into the program i thought i was going to tap dance my way through it tell me little things

they wanted to hear because i didn't have a drug addiction i had substance use which qualify me for the program but i thought it was going to be similar to like a a or n a it was more like uh the most surreal cognitive like setting that i've ever been in uh just everything about it you're you're on literally on edge the entire 10 months you don't know who's looking at you who's going to tell on you other inmates like shama come over really oh man look at look at dr smith's ass and i'd be like high risk high risk i would just vacate the area because uh somebody hears that conversation and sees you part of it and then they pull you up in the morning meeting and say so you were in the chow hall the other you and one of your friends that's not an ardap uh i heard you guys were

talking about dr smith's ass boom that you're done it's like people are it's it was yeah Yeah, yeah, I know exactly, bro, it was horrible. And, you know, the pull-ups, they would just come out of, like, left field. And people would say, well, I don't want to pull up my friend. I don't want to do this. I know some other prisons had Ardap where you could literally, like, kind of micromanage your pull-ups. You'd be like, hey, Matt, I'm going to pull you up tomorrow. You pull me up.

At Coleman, if you got caught doing that, it was worse than some of the worst things you could possibly do. I remember two guys, they were in Chow Hall, and somebody cut the line, got some extra chicken. And I remember the dude in front of me saw it and didn't say anything. So when the hands went up the next day, I raised my hand because I'm like, oh, this isn't easy to pull up. He's going to get pulled up and pulling chicken, no big deal. So I raised my hand. Somebody else had raised their hand.

And they pulled them up for the chicken, for stealing the extra chicken, no big deal. But then they called on me and I'm like, fuck, I still want to, I still want to hit somebody. So I stood up. And the guy that was in front of me that saw it, it didn't raise his hand. I was like, Mr. So-and-so, I noticed that you mentioned it to me yesterday. He stole the chicken. I'm just curious, how come you weren't going to hold him accountable today? So I pulled him up for not holding him accountable.

And he got in more trouble than the guy stealing the chicken. Because he was also a phase three member. Yeah. And those are the kind of things that like the games that you play in art. Now, I mean, I call it games. But it really does train you to pick and choose the type of situations you put yourself in. coming out of there because high-risk situations

are real in a real world. Yeah, it's, my God, bro, it was so bad. It was so bad. So I was actually in there when people understand like there's a hundred guys

they stand up there and they go through a whole different phases of the morning meeting and they would pull it like we said we'd pull each other I was in there one time when this guy who was locked up

for tax evasion he got like three years for tax evasion like he's a complete he's like I don't know, 58, 59 years old, maybe 60, but late 50s. It's like a CEO.

Like, he's completely oblivious to the people that he's surrounded to by. As soon as he got, as soon as he self-surrendered, he immediately went into Art app. So he's never even really experienced prison. He never went to county jail. He doesn't really know.

So, and he's got tons of money. So he's having money put on other people's books and, you know, that sort of thing. So he stands up and there's a gang member that's like a crypt or a blood. from that was in in uh from hawai who's a massive guy guys like six foot three his he um he had already been to trial twice in the state for murder in hawai and beat both cases then the feds picked him up on a charge uh on a a drug conspiracy and that's how he ended up in prison so he's

trying to he's trying to get the year off and get out but this is a dangerous guy right so the CEO stands up and he's like um i'd like to pull up mr. whatever his name was, you know, Mr. so-and-so, you know, Mr. Cripped or whatever. He's like, and the guy stands up. He's like, I saw you standing or I saw you, he says, I saw you smoking K2 in the bathroom. And this is the second time you smoked K2.

And so the guy actually kind of steps out of the, out of the row. So he actually has better access to the guy. You know, he actually, typically would just stand up and stand there, right? But somebody had mentioned a few weeks earlier, like, hey, we really, if you don't have a good view or whatever, you really need to step outside the road. So he does. And the guy's sitting there and he's like, so he said, you know, here's what the issue is and blah, blah, he says all that.

And then he says, the damaging consequences of your actions are. And the other guy says, the Crip guy says, he said, I'll give you the damaging consequences. And he runs at him and swings at him. He catches him in the arm, swings at him again. Like this guy dodges, like people are jumping up. People are trying. This guy hits, he hits another guy. I don't know where he hit him in the neck or the shoulder.

I forget where. Like the one guy that he did actually make a connection with, the CEO, he said, I couldn't move my arm the next day. He said, for like two days. He said my arm is killing me. This was a big guy. They dragged him away. We all had to go.

This guy literally attacked him in the morning meeting. That was like a first. Like Dr. Smith came in a couple days later. He was like, listen, that was the first. I'm assuming he was removed. Mr. Krip did not make it through our down. Make the cut. Well, that's the thing with Coleman, though, with the low.

is people get complacent, especially in ARDAP. You start to forget you're in prison. Right. Because pull-ups are accepted and it's expected, but you still got to know your audience and know your surroundings. And, uh, Mr. CEO. Well, how many times have somebody afterwards? Like, sometimes it won't happen there.

Like, mostly, this guy really wants to do something, he'd let him pull him up and then he'd go catch him in the bathroom and beat his ass. You know, or guys with, like, I knew a guy that literally this other guy knew he was paying a bookie. betting, losing, and paying a bookie, and this guy was going to pull him up, he goes to him the day before he hears he's going to pull him up. Everybody knows, like, oh, so-and-so's going to pull up, so-and-so, and then it might get back

to you. He actually goes the day before and tells him, I'll beat you to fucking death. I will get a couple, two locks and a sock, and I'll come in here the night after you pull me up and I'm going to beat you down because like, this guy's wife is leaving him. He's like, like, his best

friends banging his wife. He's like, but they've already, they're basically planning their getaway. I have to get out of here. You get me an extra year. I lose my wife, my kids, everything. I have to be out of here. I'll beat you to death. This guy was about to graduate. He was graduated like a week. And as soon as he graduated, he immediately, like he's like a month away from being an halfway house. I mean, just this, by the way, the guy threatened, he was terrified. I mean, just shaking like, I can't do it. I can't do it. Then he was afraid somebody else was going to pull him up for not holding him the other guy. It was chaos, bro. And

just terror like walking around and fear all the time that's that's how the whole program is though like even walking the track if if you're mentioning because breaking confidentiality is one of the is is one of the huge things in there um and when you're walking the track talking about like oh what happened in the morning meeting you're always afraid like what if somebody over here is what we're talking about you know it's the the constant fear of getting removed and losing that year But the pull-ups, that was probably the hardest part. And I remember there was this kid. Actually, his name is Daniel, Spanish guy Daniel.

And he was always, he was a problem child in Ardap. He was the one that was always doing pull-ups. But behind the scenes, he was just a fucking actor. He was his fake as fake could be. And he came in my cube and he's, Dan, what would you do if so-and-so did this? If so-and-so pulled you up, I was like, I've got a lightsaber in here. I'll cut anybody's head off. And I was like, I've got Dr. Smith wrapped up my finger.

I'm kidding, right? I'm making jokes. Oh, man. And he's like, well, how can we not always in her office? How can you're not like teacher's pet? I said, because I don't need anybody to protect me. I'm like, I'm a sole survivor. I was like, I'll cut your head off and protect myself.

He pulls me up for that. Right. He pulls me up for that. And Mr. Wise, how do you respond? Blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, first off, came in my cube. We were kidding. And he's talking about how he jokes around,

how he pulls everybody up, but he's not really programming. So I said that. And Dr. Smith, again, she was like, but your answer was honest, Mr. Wise. I don't see why he pulled you up. I was like, I mean, ask him. And the pull up turned around and he got in trouble. And now once you get put on the spotlight in there, once you get hit for one thing,

people, people are coming for you. Yeah. I got labeled as a manipulator in there out the gate, which is they weren't wrong. Like, I am a manipulator. That's, that's my God-giving gift that I've had to use for goodness instead of, you know, evil. But I learned in R-Dap, don't lie. When you get hit with something, just fucking own it because they see it. There's been a million people just like me that've gone through the program that thought

they had it all figured out, the thought they had all the answers, I thought they could wiggle through it, and they all get caught in the end. They've seen a million Dans and a million mats come through that program. So that's what I took from the program is just be me. Yeah. And Dr. Smith would immediately categorize you. Like I remember I walked into her office by the second or third time I actually went into her office.

She immediately knew my personality. I mean, she knew everything about me. It was way more than what was in the PSI. Like, they'll read the PSI. But then it was, she had a whole other thing. She's like, so what happened? So this is how you felt growing up. So this is how, so you had this many siblings.

So which one was a superstar? Which one was this? So you were obviously this one. I mean, she's just categorizing. What just happened? Light went off. Huh? You turned off the lights.

Yeah, you turned on the light. Yeah, you unplugged it. yeah so i mean she she just she broke me down immediately immediately the other thing i was going to say remember you were talking about the booklets the books the uh oh yeah the book so remember you said they they caught you on that one thing so knee smith i went through it twice right so knee smith one time i had knee smith and i i was so you know i could care less if i passed it i was just i could see new smith having a problem with you now here's the thing the first she did have a problem with me the first day you know what happened the first

day, she was saying, so why, oh, was it, um, why, what did she ask me? Like, why? I wish I could open up the book because I had, because you're saying, I took notes the whole time. Because I knew I was going to write a book. I have all my books still. Oh, I have them too. Light off. What's going on? Dude, I don't know what's going on with this outlet. It keeps, it keeps breaking. The outlet's breaking. Uh, breaking, tripping the breaker. It did it at my house. Remember I had to run the extension cord? So don't, let's just not play with it. Let's not be near it.

Okay. So, so she said, so she said something to me like, I forget what it was. It was like how, it was like, why are you, like, why are you, you know, why do you have a criminal mindset? Um, so, fucking motherfucker. All right.

So, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, 70, take the child, take 44 to leave it in. Absolutely leave it in. He's a child. He's a, he's a teenager. He's like a 13 year old boy. Okay, so, um, so what, what ended up happening was she said something like, like, uh, so why, why are, you know, why do you have criminal thinking or something,

or criminal thinking errors? And I went, um, I mean, I'm not, I'm not sure. And she was like, I was like, uh, I don't know, maybe it's because. And I gave her some reason. And then she went, well. I thought you said you weren't going to run your mouth. Jesus fucking Christ. Are you serious?

That's all you. Are you fucking serious? I'm asking you to be quiet. I'm doing a fucking podcast. This is how I make my living. I'm asking you to be quiet. Bro. Everybody here knows you're supposed to be quiet.

That's all you have to do. It was an accident. First off, when I'm doing my podcast, you were cutting me off and doing it how you wanted to do it, the unedited format. No, no, no, no. It's because you're making noise. You're banging things, you're dropping things, you're smashing things, you're plugging things. I'm doing something. He's on a time limit.

Go somewhere and sit down where I can't hear you. Or get your car on you. That's fine. So can I leave my stuff here? Is it going to be safe? well I would you know typically I would pawn it but yeah I'll keep it for you since you goodbye leave it yeah I got to pee should we take a quick break I mean we could take a quick break let me pee real quick okay so wherever we were like I think we were at um yeah we're so

even even graduating our DAP you know if if you're not going to go home right after you graduate RDAP because some guys got weeks or months left before they're going to go to a halfway house. Like you said, most guys only get about six months halfway house with the year off. So if you've got three or four months left after your RDAP complete, you can still get kicked out of the program. Even if you get moved out of the RDAP unit and go back to your regular unit and you get a shot for stealing or anything like that, you can still have your RDAP taken away from you, including the halfway house. You can lose your RDAP in the halfway house, which almost happened to me.

Yeah, yeah, that was for stealing candy out of the vending machine. Right, which you didn't even do. Which I didn't do. Right. I mean, I technically took it, but I paid for it. Right. But I did spend 27 days in county jail for that when the U.S. Marshals came and got me because I theft of a vending machine. Yeah, that's where basically somebody else had broken the machine, right?

You went and you put quarters in and you went to get your food and it wasn't there. So then you put your hand in and got the food. I went to buy my little hot Cheetos. I put my money in and the little corkscrew I realized somebody had already caved in the glass so the coarse screw

pinned my Cheetos into the glass but the glass was pushed him far enough I could just reach over and take them right so I took them on a Friday

Monday morning I went to go to work from the halfway house I'm like oh Mr. Wise you got to wait for your case manager and about three hours later US Marshals came put me in handcuffs

and I'm like what the fuck did I do I gave me the little sheet and said theft of a vending machine and Miss Moyer the whatever the the person in charge of the halfway house mr wise you know what you did it took 27 days for them to review the fucking footage to see that i put the 35 cents into the vending machine and paid for the chips which wasn't theft and i ended up getting all my ship back but 27 days in county jail in spokane county horrible google spokane county jail if you ever got time i would rather do six months in coleman than 60 days in spokane county jail right that might be bullshit but right now at least double so um but back to what we were talking about when uh with the uh the books remember the books so yes with knee smith so here's the thing

you said you like they caught you for not really participating much in the book or doing a shitty job real fast thing right so the thing with knee smith was that i remember the very first the reason she initially she disliked me we got into an argument where she had asked me something and i I tried to give her an explanation. I said, I don't know. I'm assuming because of, you know, because just my genetic makeup, you know, predetermined me to be a criminal or something. Like she'd asked, like, why are you a criminal? Or what makes you a criminal?

I said, I don't know. Maybe I'm predetermined. I don't know. Maybe something in my childhood. So we went back and forth, back and forth. And she said, yeah, but why? And I went, I mean, I'm assuming maybe bad parenting. Like maybe my father had some issue.

It was an issue with my father. She goes, but why, Mr. Cox? Why? And I went, I mean, I'm, maybe this. And she said, yeah, but why? And I went, you know, I said, here's the thing. I said, I have a pretty firm grasp of the English language. I said, so if I'm not answering the question correctly, it's because it's not being presented

to me correctly. I said, so if I'm not answering, I said, then you need to do a better job of explaining what it is you're looking for, more so than why. And she went, and she just kind of looked at me. And I really was like more assertive than that. And she went, what I'm trying to say is, and so it's like I stood up to her. And after that, she loved me. Like the first few classes, she disliked me, you could tell.

Then she liked me. So when I would go to turn in my books, I was turning in gibberish. I mean, it was really bad. And I kept waiting for her. People would come back and go, man, she's telling me I got to redo this. I got to redo that. I have to erase because, you know, they made you write in pencil. I had to erase everything and do this.

And I was actually doodling in my books. I'm drawing cartoon characters of the other people in the program. And at one point, you'll remember this. Remember, at one point, there's a book that says, like, what would your life look like if you continue to use drugs? And you have to tell them, oh, it would be horrible. I'd be incarcerated. I'd lose my family.

You got to draw a picture. You've got to do this whole thing. And it said, what would it look like? Like, where do you see yourself in 10 years after prison without drugs? And my response was, I see myself with a massive, massive, um, real estate fortune running, uh, running, uh, running, uh, eco units. And then I put like in parentheses like half, like, um, halfway houses or not, no, um, rooming houses. And then I said, I see my as our family. I said no family. I said,

relationship. I said, I see myself dating an ex stripper. I said, with some tattoos, probably been in jail. I've probably been in jail also. I said, I said, has definitely lived in a trailer park in her within her lifetime. I said, and she is only dating me for my money. And we have an arrangement. I said that's, I said, which is exactly what I'm looking for. Then it was like, where do you, I mean, the whole thing was just horrible. Like everything I said was it was, it was only go up from there. It was, oh, it was just ridiculous, right? And then one of the things was, what's your role in the community? And I remember I put, I put community. I said, I'm a pariah. I intend on staying a pariah. I'm good with being a pariah. I mean, like, it was ridiculous, right?

Like, no, no, no DTS was going to read that and be okay with it. When they called me, I'm waiting for them to call me. When she calls me to walk in, she hands me the book and she says, you're doing amazing work, Mr. Cox. I love your honesty and I just, just keep up the good work. And I just remember thinking, you're not reading my stuff. You didn't read nothing. It got even worse from there. Right. I mean, it was just. How far can you take it? It was blatant. It was blatant. Like, what do you think when someone says this to you? And I said, I mentally picture myself hitting them in the head with a baseball bat, stomping on their face until there's nothing left.

I mean, I'm saying horrible, ridiculous things in these books. Never, ever does a thing. Never looks at them. Never says anything. So, I mean, I was sailing by because, you know, like, someone like you and I, like, let's face it. Most of those guys, they're just trying to get them to say, please and thank you, turn off the water, write your name. Be a decent human being.

That's what they're trying for. But guys in the third, you know, more of your more, a more sophisticated criminal in the third phase, or is it the fourth phase? Third phase. That's when they, those guys are like, sail through the first two phases. The third one, that's where they go all in. Yeah, suddenly. Placincy set in. Oh, man.

That's the worst. And I always, when I overreached that phase is when I dropped out. Within weeks of that phase, I always dropped out because I knew I'm never passing. this. I'm not passing this. I had already been labeled a con man. Did you actually ever make it through Ardap? No. Oh, shit. I only went into the program to keep the management variable on me so I could stay at Coleman so my mom could come see me. You booked you become an Ardap guide from Ardap. It's hilarious. It is hilarious. Two, twice. Twice. Twice. Two times dropped out Ardap. I spent over a year. Over a year. But you have to understand. Like, I'm literally, you're supposed to go to like.

Did you get the time off? Of course you could. No. No, you could, though. I could have. I could have. I could have. but I didn't have time to do it. Like I literally, if I'd gone in the first time when I went, I wanted like a year half. I was thinking, I want a halfway house. Right. The way it panned out, I could only get like three months or four months. And I was thinking, I'd rather get the year halfway house.

Like I'm going to get a year. But I didn't, but I thought I was going to. Well, it does increase your chances. Right. Well, I mean, not the ARDAP. It wasn't the RDAP that the year. No, halfway house. Right.

Right. You have to explain how the, how I'd have to explain how it all fell where I did, I would go. If I'd gotten at three months and I thought I can't reset my life in three. three months. I can't save enough money in the halfway house three months. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take it. I'm going to drop out. Then I'm going to take it again. I'm going to drop out. So I can explain the logistics later. But so what ends up happening is, oh my God, bro, it was, it was, it just, it was hilarious because I'm not doing like, you're supposed to go to like AA, right? Like I never went to an AA meeting. Like all these things that you're, I don't even

go. I would go and I'd sign my name. Like the community meetings and the, yeah. You know how you had to have the, you had to take a certain amount of, of work groups. Right. I just signed my name to him. Like I just signed the signatures of the other. Like I was facilitating half of them. I was, I would go to like, I would go to like one meeting or two meetings.

I never go again and I just sign everybody's, I signed like he's boom, boom, boom, boom. Look here, I turn him in. I was such a good little ardapper. Because it was like, like what do I care if they find out? Mr. Cox, you didn't this,

you didn't this, you didn't. I'd be like, kick me out. Like, what do I care? Because of Ardap, I got a bottom bunk though.

I'm not going to lie. I never would have got a bottom bunk. I wouldn't have had enough time. They're just, I was still shit in McDonald's when I came home. Oh, yeah, you had so little time, you know. But it didn't feel like it at the time. No, I know, I know. It felt, I mean, when I first got there, and I'm like, oh, my God, 42 months.

Because I didn't know I was going to get Ardap. Right. I'm just thinking, fuck, this is like, this is my world for the next 42 months. It was such a daunting feeling until I started to meet guys. There was a guy there. Remember, Phil. He used to teach yoga. Old guy, old man Phil.

Yeah. He would teach yoga. He had already done like 27 years. And he lives out here in Tampa, I think, somewhere. Oh, okay. Yeah. But, you know, the only creepy story I had in Ardap was they bunked me up with a, you know, you have big brothers, little brothers in Ardap.

Yeah. They gave me a little brother, this guy, Mr. Hammond. I didn't know what he was in there for. I assumed he was a sex offender, but I thought sex offenders couldn't do Ardap. But I guess they can do it. They just can't get the time. Well, if it's a hands-on offense, they can't even take it. If it's a picture crime or whatever, they can take it.

So one night my bunky, Mr. Hammond, wakes me up at like two in the morning because he's my little brother. He's like, I need to tell you something. And he says it in his creepiest voice. And I sit up and like, I remember I, I'm more like that to his knee. I'm like, hey, what's going on? Tell me. He goes, have you ever seen Dexter?

And I'm like, the show or the cartoon? He was the serial killer. Right. And he says it in his like really weird voice. And I was like, yeah, it's one of my. favorite shows. He goes, I'm kind of like Dexter. And he's, he's this big orthodoxy looking like bear guy. And I was like, okay. He was, I mean, I don't, I don't hurt people, but I like to cut myself. I was like, I mean, I don't really know what to say about this. I'm not equipped for this.

He literally goes to pull out his business and show me all of the scars and cuts he's done to his his manhood and how he would sew himself up over and over and over again and how he's getting the urge so i'm thinking of myself i'm like oh my god this guy's gonna like look at me yeah i've to get away from this guy the next morning i went in i went into this uh dr smith's office i'm like look i'm not i'm not trying to tell on this guy but i i think he's a sex offender for one which is whatever but he told me this weird fucking story and i i just can't i'm not comfortable Right. So they moved me and moved him around and they removed him from my little brother. But, dude, there's some weird fucking people that go into the prison system.

Weird. But artistic people too, like you. I met some of the most artistic people in the world that at least your talent's not being wasted. I've seen such waste of talent in prison. You painted all these, by the way, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. There's what's called modified screen print. So it's like partially a painting, partially a screen print. But every one of them is different. Like I might have like, I probably don't. on 20 or so trumps i got to tell you i thought all your paintings were complete bullshit i didn't think you did them until you started posting stuff on the time lapse the time lapse on facebook where you would actually show yourself doing and i'm like fuck yeah the i don't know what you charge for these but i wouldn't i would charge a lot because i imagine even if you're redoing one

over and over again it's not like it's done in 10 minutes these things take probably hours no they do they definitely definitely and these go for like two these go for like 2 95 a piece and that and i'll ship them to you for that for that and then the other ones that the bigger paintings I do are around a thousand a piece so Matt where can people get these paints stop that anyway they email me um yeah I was going to say um when we were talking was uh so just to kind of wrap this up because I could talk about art app forever like honestly though like I mean we're mocking the program and joking about it though I changed my life right okay that's what I'm saying like to me even mocking the pro even when I was in the program the stuff that I was learning

about myself and who I was and how I behaved and the reasons I behaved that way and the criminal thinking errors right all of those things were like they were so my God it's me yeah it was so crystal clear RSAs all of them and it's like you know you I would mock them and joke with them and I would really really like just you know just be like this is ridiculous but the truth is I was really also like this is amazing. Like this is, this is actually helpful. There's a lot. Miss Nisim said to me, when I was talking about all the bullshit in the program, she's like, Mr. Wise. Here's something somebody told me once, chew up the meat and spit out the bones. She's like, there's a lot of stuff in this

program that is complete. Yeah, crap. Right. For, for antics. But there are things in here that will change. But you know what, you know what hit me? She said it to me on the phone. She got out before me. And she knew what like a con artist manipulator I was. Right. She saw all the, the mental change in the emails and the phone conversation and the letters and i remember she said it and miss knee smith happened to listen to one of these calls shelly said whatever kool-aid they're making for you in there i hope they i hope you take the recipe home with you nice and it was like home i was like fuck yeah it really like i i've adapted to this new uh this new train of thought of thinking about consequences and how's this going to affect my life if i do this right right right it's funny right like it's

emotional right it is if if i like you see that tear yeah i can no i can see you tear or not yeah no i do oh listen if i talk about if there are certain things dr smith would call me into her office and sit me down and i shit you not within three minutes of every time and she called me in there twice a week because she was just took an interest in me and i'm telling you within it was so bad within about a month oh i'm telling you he did this with microphone i'm Yeah, it's fine. Explain everything on him at this point. Is it still good?

Yeah. Okay. So I'm telling you within about a month or so of her calling me into her office, I cried so much in that office when she called my name, Mr. Cox to the doctor's office. I love how she referred to herself in the third person. She'd go, Mr. Cox, to Dr. Smith's office, like, you're Dr. Smith. Like, what do you do? She said to the doctor's office, and as I was walking towards the office, like Pavlo's dog,

right i literally would start to well up in tears knowing when i'm in there she's gonna make she's so comfortable in there oh yeah she's comfortable i felt like a fucking bonsai tree bro it doesn't matter i felt like the room was shrinking in on me and and literally i would she would immediately my dad my son my mother my ex-wife my like it's like it's like how do you know that there's only maybe five things you can talk to me about where i'll tear up immediately this chick had a list and she just kept going through them and going through them and then she would make me write stuff there and then she'd say you've got to go back to her cell and ride

and I can't, I can't, I can't. And she'd go, you're going to do it. Or you know what, Mr. Crox? You'll come in here and you'll do it. No, no, I'll do it in my room. I'll do it. Like, I was desperate. Every time I walked in there, I want to get out. All I could think about was, what do I need to say to her to let me get, to let me leave this room. I mean, I've never been like that. Like, I'm not a person that is adverse to, you know, to conflict or to to, you know, to, like, I'm okay with arguing.

I'm good at argument, but that chick, she was so smart and so just. She felt genuine when she did. It didn't feel like. But it was manipulative. You know it was. She's a doctor. She's a psychologist. I mean, it's, I don't even think she, I don't think she can help but do it.

But I do feel like she had genuine intent. You do understand that the person I feel horrible for every time I would leave that office was her husband. Like, this is a man who's never won an argument. You couldn't win an argument. argument with her. She could twist anything you said. Anything I said, she would. Do you think her name is really Dr. Smith? I don't. No, you don't? No. Come on. Look at it. I think it's probably Dr. Smith. I've tried to find her. Really? Oh. Not her. I mean, yes, her, but I've looked up all the DTSs. I can't

find any of them. Are you serious? I couldn't find Neesmith. I don't think any of them used their real ass names. No, no. Neesmith is. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Went to, I, like a guy who knows a guy who went to her her Facebook or Instagram, the whole thing. It sounds like a famous prison story. I know a guy who knew a guy who got 35, where they dropped a sentence to only 35%. Right. No, I actually know. I actually saw it.

I actually saw it. I believe. I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah. I know a guy who's a sovereign citizen who actually walked out of prison. How many times you've heard that? The sovereign citizens guys? Yeah, the ghost man or shell of a man or whatever the fuck it's called. Okay, so we can do the other one.

Let's wrap this up. Yeah, you want to wrap it up. Wrap it up. Because, bro, I'll talk for an hour. about this. I like I could talk for an hour just about Dr. Smith. Like I thought she, look, she was a chick that when I saw her, she was a six. But when we, she started talking, she jumped to like an eight and a half. Like she was so she was. And then on Fridays when she wears the tight jeans. Oh my God. Yeah. She hits almost a 10. Yeah. Yeah. She was yeah. Well, she's yeah. She's in prison. She's in 11. But yeah. You can't even look at it. You feel like you're going to get a shot. Right. Like I mean super. I was super intimidated by her. You know, like you don't meet a lot of chicks that are just that smart. and clever and sexy and it's ridiculous. Other guys had pictures of like Jennifer Aniston and stuff in the locker. I just had mental, mental images of Dr. New Smith.

No, just kidding. Okay, so let's wrap it. Let's wrap it up. All right. All right. So this was, are we doing this with? All right. All right.

So this was an interview. If you like the interview, do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so that you get notified. Share the video. Go to the comments and leave a comment. And I respond to probably like 80 or 90% of the comments, you know. How come there's no mention of like go check out Ardap Dan's channel. How come it's like, I've got no plugs this entire time.

Well, you sort of did, but that's probably not going to work out. So the other thing is Ardap Dan. Ardap Dan. What is it? Ardap Dan. Ardap Dan. And he was all in, bro. Yeah.

Go to Ardap Dan. And what we're going to do also is we'll put the, if Colby will remember, we'll put the link to his YouTube channel in the description. and I think, is that good enough or what? That will work for this one. Do you have any books or paintings you want to? What have you been doing? What have you been doing with your life?

Exactly. All right. Okay, so that's it. And I appreciate it and see you.