Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Smuggler Escapes A 35 Year Prison Sentence... (Without Snitching)

Episode Date: September 17, 2023

Smuggler Escapes A 35 Year Prison Sentence... (Without Snitching)

You learn how to be a good drug dealer by experience. Nobody can teach you. And it's quite thrilling. Every cell in your body is trying to understand and be calm. And my reality was so far out there. I could not even function and got put in a psych ward. I was, you know, shackled legs, arms, hands, put me in front of a grade school. And it really let me see of the bondage I was in.

I knew I was being watched. And, you know, I had the DEA, the FBI, and the CIA all, all. around what I was doing. So my reputation started traveling back in Bolivia. We got a guy in the United States that he pays and we trust him. This is like the president of a country and one of our allies. And then Reagan sends in troops to arrest Noriega. And there's a huge gun battle. I would die before I would tell on him. I didn't get in trouble. I didn't get shot. I mean, my friends were getting shot. I mean, I had no fear. Drove down parked and was walking in this alley and there was a beautiful Bolivian uh look like a model and and I said okay this has got

to be a set up hey this is Matt Cox and I'm here with Joe Tarsick and we're going to be talking about his story um can't say drug smuggler uh yeah interstate transportation is what I that or not you know or narcotics is what I got arrested for but yeah drug smuggler let's go yeah all the above okay all right um do you want to go with that is that is that good yeah okay it's i was gonna say i was gonna redo it but yeah um uh yeah let's go with drug smuggler uh well it's funny you know it's like people say you know oh you were arrested for mortgage fraud now is bank fraud like you know there is no mortgage fraud so yeah same thing you're giving the technical name but most people would just say smuggler i i want i appreciate you coming out

obviously um let's let's just start at the beginning like you know where were you born your parents brothers sisters anything like i was born in uh washington dc i have two older sisters uh dad was a military man uh my mom was considered the debutant and uh and we lived on uh 17th and Upshire Street in Washington, D.C. until I was three. You know, dad in the military didn't have a lot of money. Then we moved to Silver Spring in Maryland. But, you know, coming from a house that had a maid was my grandmother was one of the wealthiest ladies in Washington, and her husband died when I think he was 33 and my mom and the family lived with my grandmother before we moved out to Silver Spring. How old were you? I was three years old when we moved to Silver Spring.

But your father was still in the military? He was still in the military, didn't retire. He went on to got out of the military, got a job. When we were in Silver Spring, it was a very, the house cost them 15,000. It was at an end of a dirt road. You know, they were, they didn't have much money. And he was trying to support the family with that military income, which didn't work. And they were always fighting. And it was a only a two-bedroom house. And my bedroom was in, I was actually stayed in a crib in my mother and dad's bedroom until I was almost six years old. My sisters lived in the other room in the house. Very poor house, very poor at that time. How many sisters?

Two sisters. So it's you and two sisters. Yeah. And my dad came from a very poor background. His father was from Russia. They lived in Upper State, New York, never had running water. His dad went back to Russia when he was 15 years old. He joined the Navy to take care of his three brothers and his mother.

It was just a real bad scene. My grandfather could never speak English. And very, he was from my, he was a Russian Cossack. very rough on my grandmother all the stories were that he used to beat her it was very dark if we want to call it dark so you went to high school yeah yeah let me go back and just talk about my grandmother's side you know uh and my my mother's side was very wealthy and it was like uh two two opposites my mother growing up very in very wealthy family because of my grandfather and we'll get down the road a little bit more about him and then you know my father being very poor uh them trying to

work together back in Maryland now and now we're, I'm at three years old in Silver Spring, Maryland. And at about age, I guess third grade is, went to a little school right in that little neighborhood. And that's when they realized I had a problem with reading and writing. And that was when really the challenges started in my life. Okay. You had some kind of a learning disability well they call it dyslexia now but but back then there was no cure nobody knew they thought there was something wrong you know why the kids a smart kid why can't he read and write so that was kind of my same thing he's got a good vocabulary he communicates well yeah what's the problem yep yep yeah yeah when i was a kid i could take an engine apart put it back together but

i couldn't read and write so something something was off but so that's kind of where it was when I was young. You know, mom and dad didn't get along and continue to fight. And one traumatic thing that happened when I was growing up when my father kind of grew up in that same thing like his dad would yell and scream, you know, my mom would hold me when I was young when they would fight so my father wouldn't hit her. Right. So that's how I grew up for my first six years from age, really it started age three to age six. And then the, you know, we were kind of in like a farmland back then. It was not very built up.

And, you know, I had nobody ever watching over me or, you know, when I went home, nobody said, help him with his homework. Nobody, it was kind of like I was on my own because of all their problems. And then at age seven, I got, went out to a barn. and was playing with the kids and some older kids came out, and the first time I got molested by a young man, and that was the reading and the molestation was a traumatic, and the way I brought up was brought up, you know,

with the yelling and screaming kind of turned me into a shell of a person and just not confident and really struggling just socially in school. And they sent me to a special school called Hillcrest and Water, Washington. They had to borrow money from my grandmother, and that was a big deal. It was an hour drive to the school and back home, and that's when all the arguing really started with my mother and father. So that's where that out of line growing up, and that's where that kind of led to. Okay. Did you graduate from that school? I graduated from that school and started learning more about my grandfather and as I was growing up you know my family would really he really worship him

and you know the money was still with my grandmother even though it was years that he died he and that in the book that I gave you there's a picture of the mansion he built on 16th street he was one of the richest men in DC but he started smuggling liquor from Canada when he was a probably 20 years old and his dad was the chief of police in Washington so they were really they were the little mob in Washington right and that was my grandmother had four daughters and my mother was the first one to have a boy so they named me after my grandfather so who was Joseph Marr and I was the first Joseph boy so I was really looked at to kind of hold the torch you know in my mind I was grown up to be like him and so that's how this all started forming those years of resentment and heading towards the

problems with the drugs and how that ended up I really couldn't adjust to understanding about reading and writing and getting a regular job you know but high school was I had a lot of fun in high school right so did you I mean did like did the reading get better or did they just kind of it got worse and it didn't get any better I went to the special school and I they still pass me. I went to another special school in Wheaton. That's a little farther away about, and supposedly I was making progress after the one in D.C. And then when I got to seventh grade, my sisters all graduated. My one sister was a homecoming queen, very prominent in the school, and the teachers seemed to like me, but I still got put in a special class. But in gym class,

one of the football coaches recognized that I was pretty athletic. And so that was really my key to going through school without ever learning how to read and write. Right. So ended up lettering nine times, football, wrestling, and track. I was athlete of the year in my senior class. They said I would be the most successful athlete. And that was a big thing in me.

that. I mean, I was a very introvert then. Of course, the girls and the attraction of sports led to a lot of fun. And in my senior year, I started smoking pot. And that was really the doorway. Got a wrestling scholarship to Montgomery College. They paid for my books. And that was, you know, the first semester, my fear when I grew, when I got up in the morning, I was so fearful of somebody calling on me and having to speak in front of anybody. It was like torment. And so after wrestling class or the season, I said, I can't do this.

And so I was working as a plumber on the side. Actually started that when I was 16, like a summer job to get ready for sports, and it was hard work. And one of the guys in the neighborhood, that I went to high school with was a really cool guy. I had a brand new car, black guy, Afro. And, you know, I was in a shop class,

and I used to wash his car and I'd drive it around the parking lot. So that was a big deal. But we became friends. And actually, his brothers, who I'm visiting with right now, his little brother, what was the alfalfa and what was the other guy? the uh buckwheat buckwheat and alfalfa that's that was our nicknames when we started the drugs so um you know we had a we really got along good like he was like the coolest hippiest guy you could ever imagine uh but he got he got arrested uh in my my first year out of high school he got arrested for bank

robbery and what year was this that was 1972 i think he got around we graduated 1971 okay and but we were friends since 10th grade, you know, even when I wasn't doing drugs, he was a cool guy. And it was another, him and another guy after I graduated from high school, a little bit of pot and, you know, they had a party and, you know, I started doing cocaine. I tried cocaine and that became my best friend. Right. That made you feel confident. I could be socially accepted everywhere I went when I had that cocaine. And that's where, you're, you know, really started and you know when I got to wrestling and left I said man you know I was I was captain of the football team captain of the wrestling team I had a gift you know and I would

even in sports instead of telling people what to do I would show them what to do I would be a leader in example right and so I think I've been bred for this because of my grandfather I said okay, well, I started, first started getting high and just being a regular street dealer, you know, and then the cocaine became a little bit more important, and then I could see how I could take this bag of something and cut it a little bit and get my stash, and also a lot of new friends.

I thought they were friends at the time, but that was a way for me to feel like I was somebody. You know, I could feel confident, because I had no confidence. In sports, I had confidence. but that only lasts so long, you know, that that is a, that's a real high, you know, the feeling sports gives you, it's, it's good for your body and, you know, but I recognize I took all my trophies and everything, threw them in the trash, and said, I know this isn't going to be my future, but, so that's kind of where, uh, it started before it got to the, where it ended up. So how to, so how to, so that, that, that continue. to just you know what bloom and well you know well Dale was in jail and I I

how long did he get he got I think his first I think was three years and they sent him to a camp up in West Virginia a Morgantown West Virginia and you know then we started doing some acid and you know so I took some acid drove up to West Virginia and had a visit with him and I had some cigars broke them down put some cocaine in there and you know it was bold enough to walk in there and give him that pack and you know he got it and took it behind the bars and he got high but he while he was in jail there was a guy and I'll just say his first name Louis from New York and his dad was in the

garment section in New York he was the mafia garment section and they were selling heroin so of course I had never done heroin but Dale got this connection and it was the I said well let's go when he got out I went up there to New York I mean up to West Virginia drove him home and we were tight you know we were brothers and and we ended up going back to New York and visiting East Houston Street you know here I'm a white guy and a black guy and we're going to a Spanish Harlem or wherever that was and you know two guys met us with guns you know off packing it walked us down the block and then we got the O.K. on the first floor. And then, you know, every floor they had, they had guys sitting at the windows. And then when we got up to his room, you know, his dad, which was the guy, I'll just tell you this story. It's amazing. This makes me think of Frank Lucas from the American gangster.

Buried by the U.S. government and ignored by the national media, this is the story they don't want you to know. When Frank Amadeo met with President George W. Bush at the White House to discuss NATO operations in Afghanistan. No one knew that he'd already embezzled nearly $200 million from the federal government. Money he intended to use to bankroll his plan to take over the world. From Amadeo's global headquarters in the shadow of Florida's Disney World, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of the Internal Revenue Services funds, Amadeo acquired multiple businesses, amassing a mega conglomerate. Driven by his delusions, of world conquest, he negotiated the purchase of a squadron of American fighter jets and the controlling interest in a former Soviet ICBM factory. He began working to build the largest private

militia on the planet, over one million Africans strong. Simultaneously, Amadeo hired an international black ops force to orchestrate a coup in the Congo while plotting to take over several small Eastern European countries. The most disturbing part of it all is, had the U.S. government not thwarted his plans, he might have just pulled it off. It's insanity. The bizarre, true story of a bipolar megalomaniac's insane plan for total world domination. Available now on Amazon and audible. So anyway, we got in there, you know, and I was fearless. I don't know how, why, you know, but here we got a black guy and a white guy and they could just put us in the, they could have thrown us in the river thinking we were trying to set him up because Louis just got out of

jail and then his dad drives up in a limousine just like TV white hair comes in and he wouldn't go upstairs until they got the okay that I was okay because they thought you know of course everybody if you're if you're a drug dealer you're looking at everybody everybody's going to set you up so but they came upstairs and that was the first time I ever did heroin they chopped it up showed us how to cut it it was brown you know there's a formula they had they, I forget how they mix the drugs and put it on the stove and cut the brown heroin.

I think it was brown sugar or something. And then, you know, I did a big line. And like I said, I never even did heroin before. And Dale did some. So by the time we got back to the train station, Dale could not even see. He couldn't hardly walk. And somehow the heroin didn't affect me like it did him.

So I put the heroin in my sock. And, you know, we left him in the train station. He was in there, took all his clothes off, and he was sweating so bad, he couldn't see. He was blind and said, okay, I got to leave. So I got on the train and, you know, thinking we were going to get, a dog would be on the train. And, you know, so that was the first real big experience of a mafia family and getting involved. And it's quite thrilling, you know, you're at your peak of your, of, you know, everything, every cell in your body is trying to understand. and be calm and go through and so it got back home and that was the start of

where we're continued to grow so okay and I mean how often did you make that trip or did you well that was the first trip we went up we started I didn't really after about six months I almost got busted actually another undercover agent from Montgomery County I actually grew up with since I was three years old and I went to sell give somebody a stash of hair one to see if they could but they could be somebody we could sell it and it was an old guy that was on the wrestling team and he got caught selling TVs and I didn't know he was trying to set me up so this is the first time that I almost

got arrested but I didn't and and I knew for why didn't I get arrested I have no I So I, so, you know, I was supposed to meet this guy at McDonald's, and it just seems strange to me. This is where you learn how to, you learn how to be a good drug dealer by experience. Nobody can teach you. So, so I met this, I was going to McDonald's. I can remember all this stuff like it was yesterday. But, so I walked in McDonald's and I just felt so funny, and I saw a black car and I said something's not right. So I left McDonald's.

And, and I, the next day I was over at a friend. another wrestler's house in Aspen Hill and I walked in and he says oh yeah that he was kind of joking with me about being paranoid and he says that guy I got an undercover cop that lives right over there and I saw that exact car that the night before or the evening before I was supposed to meet I saw that one of McDonald's so I realized that the undercover cop is the guy that I left the meeting and that kind of kind of blew my mind that this guy would try to set me up and this is my first heroin transaction I almost got busted right so with all that said we started meeting louis came down from Maryland they had another buy in our apartment that I got an apartment with

that Goddale and the Montgomery County our narcotic squad asked me to come in and oh they wanted to interview me and I went to my buddy for a job no yeah yeah I went to my buddy my the guy that I grew up with was undercover and he kind of coached me on man he says they don't have you but if you say something because they knew Dale was a bank robber and he Dale had been dealing for years so they knew that we lived together right and and he says they had they have nothing on you but if you don't say anything because they usually don't you know usually people Usually give them enough information to hang you. Yeah, that's why they're interviewing you.

If they had enough to hang you, they wouldn't be calling you in to talk to you. Right. So anyway, I went through that experience and realized, you know, how to work through a situation with the police on me and getting back out. And, you know, you go through traumatic pressure through all this. I'm sure you understand that. And so that was the first time I got out of there. you know, moved out of the apartment with Dale and then got into trying to quit, I tried to quit dealing, and that lasted about a week.

So, and so that was, you gave it a long time. A week is about all that would last. So that was my first experience with almost getting busted in the New York and really building a bond with Dale and his bowl. you know he's pretty bold guy you know there's certain things you got to be to be a good drug dealer and it's pretty bold you know we were you know back then it was more of a thrill it wasn't to shoot them up everything like it's become today right so how how long did this go on before um well the i then i really i found a couple people in town that were uh selling cocaine and uh went through um learning about cocaine you know that was the biggest thing it's because everybody's got the best so you had to learn the quality and and I started dealing and the next trip I took was I drove out to California with a friend just for for fun and I ran into a group there that was had the best cocaine I ever did I've always doing cocaine for a couple years but this is about 1975 so about four years I had been

doing cocaine in the area and dealing with it the best I could as a small time because I was at the bottom of the chain instead of the top of the chain. Right. And so I went out to L.A. and I found this cocaine that I never, it was just really good. And so came back home. I started dating a girl that her mom owned a head shop.

Her brother was one of the, probably the second biggest bookie in the area. And I became friends. I mean, some of these, some of the guys like bookies and everything back then were just characters, just fun to be around and just, you know, attracted everybody. You know, they were the life of the party kind of people. And I borrowed $8,000 from him. I said, listen, I was selling him pot. He loved to smoke pot.

So I said, so I took that 8,000, got on a plane, went to San Francisco. and my buddy that I went with, you know, they started, oh, we got the cocaine, but we ran out of that, and then we went on this trail all around town and never could get a sample. And then they waited until we were just getting ready to get on the airplane. They said, oh, we found it. So we got it, wasn't even able to try it or anything. And, you know, put it, we had a banjo. We put it in the back of the banjo, put it on the plane, came home, and got ripped off.

You know, it was garbage. and that was my big lesson. You know, I thought, oh, man, these guys are going to shoot me. I'm not going to have the money to pay them. I think I got back $2,000 out of some bogus cocaine that I tried to sell. So that was my second big lesson. What kind of money were you, I mean, making in general just so. That was just, that was really supporting habit right then.

That wasn't the money. And then I, you know, it's, if you want me to keep telling you the process of, you know, And then I've met a guy in Bethesda that about 50 miles out of town in Front Royal. I went out there and, you know, he was getting cocaine from Bolivia. He had a way that they were sending it to him in the mail. And that's where I really learned what quality was. And that was another big lesson, you know, with Dale and the people were around how people really abused. the power of having drugs and manipulating people around and then the girls and got involved

with some of the Redskins. That was another mafia group that was not as big as they thought they were, but that was really... What are the Redskins? Oh, football team. Okay, the NFL. That's what I thought, but you still said, then you said kind of a mafia. Yeah, well, it was who it was around, some of the guys that played. Okay. You know, and that's where I got my taste of what that was and then how the girl what my girlfriend that I used to have a girlfriend that we stayed friends she became friends or supposedly getting married with one of the Redskins and they had a kid and that was another whole process of learning the the manipulation and how people use people when they have drugs and so that was kind of hard because of how

they treated women. It was, I don't know if people know the other side of the sports and how women get treated, but it's pretty, it's pretty, I don't know how you want to put it. Agreous. Yeah, yeah. So that really stunned me. And so, so I learned a little bit from this guy in Front Royal, and then we had the Redskins. And then there was a lady, a friend of mine that, the guy that turned me on to cocaine, you know, his brother had a maid, from Bolivia and she said she knew somebody. And so his brother started getting some real good product, but he only did a couple ounces.

And my goal was to start a family, you know, because after all the stuff I'd been through and the police and all the stuff, I said, man, I got, and then I got through the traumatic experience when I went out to Virginia, my girlfriend started sleeping with this guy that had the best, best cocaine and that just tore me up and I with that pressure and what I've been through and the police kind of starting to watch me I had a nervous breakdown you know my reality was so far out

there I could not even function and got put in a psych ward so I was in a psych ward in 1976 and that was you know how could I fit in the world and you know what was what was life about you know what was what what does this all mean you know you know trying to figure my purpose out i was just going to say you didn't really have a purpose yeah i was just you were just kind of existing yeah yeah and you know but i knew there was something you know my grandfather you know how can i make this be something that i really enjoyed what was this about what was my niche and all this and and i didn't want to be used and underneath these guys that had the families and how they were abusing people you know so i thought I could do it better than them.

Right. And, you know, and that, that experience came back out. I was there for two weeks. Where? In Springfield State Hospital. Oh, okay. You know, and then I said, tried to get a job. You know, I said, okay, I'm going to quit dealing.

My dad drove me. I was up near BWI Airport in Baltimore. He drove me to a job interview. And I walked in this building and they gave me some papers this fill out. and I couldn't even write down my name and address and what I could do. And I kind of folded the papers up, sit them on the table, and walked out.

And I said, okay, I know what I gotta do. Do you don't want a plane to Bolivia? Well, now it's coming. I was, but yeah, that was the start of just feeling that I didn't fit. You know, just couldn't adjust with the pain and the things I was traveling with in my life. is just a ball of confusion and where where could I get my my spot if you want to call it that I was going to be successful so but that was the start of where it ended up so that the guy that was that turned me on in cocaine and we did some business so we had I was as this was going on I was building my little empire of understanding how to function a

these all the criminal I was a criminal too but you know I didn't look at myself as a criminal but I was too and so I got that that connection and this girl I finally he convinced his brother to give us her telephone number she was from Bolivia so she called up one night she says okay I'm gonna this is me and my buddy he said I'm gonna meet you in Georgetown and she gave us an address and it was in the and it was an alley and it was about 12 o'clock at night and I didn't know if this was the final hit they finally set me up and because you never know who's who's doing what in this in the world and so we drove down to that was about an hour's drive from where we lived drove down parked and

was walking in this alley and there was a beautiful Bolivian look like a model and and I said okay this has got to be a setup. This can't be real. And she broke in English, beautiful accent. You would dream about meeting somebody like this. And she gave me a bag and she says, okay, this is what you're going to do. You sell this. I'm going to meet you back in two weeks. You guys give me the money. So that's how it started. And I think we got, when we first started, it was just about five ounces, not a bunch. But I hustled, got the money, gave her the money so I did I did work with her for about five years and then her boss that same process just yeah same process not well it would be meeting different places I met her in front of the airport

she'd walk out of the airport give us I had my I had a I had a Doverman I had a van a big tank of water and the driving up to the airport is not the smart thing to do because you know you you never want to get blocked in your drug deal you learn how to do things a little safe but she had the boldness is like she had a license to do what she did she walked at the airport got in the van gave us i think a pound a pound that's how we started and and got back out and she said i see in about a month cocaine yeah yeah and i mean when i say cocaine it was as good as you could imagine they don't anything that goes through the mob and came in nothing was like this it was uh i think they charged me like a thousand dollars an ounce and the market for that without cutting it was

about 2000 at that time and then if you cut it a little bit which i was very uh i wanted to build a market i wanted the best in town and that's where i started my market if you know if i was going to build what i was trying to build i needed the best product right and so i've been what almost five years of you know being uh getting a bunch of garbage and once in a while you get something that was good. But to get the, you know, that's where you, I could build what I was trying to build. So, um, you're still, what kind of money are you still making now? I mean, you're doing decent or? Yeah, yeah, you know, I was making, I would say we would make between 15 and 20,000. And that time it was pretty not, you know, it's pretty good market.

And, and, you know, it would take me a week to do that, you know. And then, uh, her boss, uh, understood. So my reputation started traveling back in Bolivia of we got a guy in the United States that he pays and we trust him so that's how that's how that and then his her boss uh came to the United States and are you are I mean I mean before we get to that like are you are people around you getting busted or anything or it's yeah yeah yeah and you know and in the meantime uh when she wasn't around because that would last there was no I had no idea when she was coming and when she wasn't coming. And there was times when it would be three or four months

that she wouldn't disappear. I had no telephone number. The only thing she had was my number. I had no control of when she would show up. So in the meantime, I said, well, I got to do something. I got tired of waiting. And then I wanted to go down to Florida because that's where the action was.

And my uncle was a bartender. And he was kind of the guy that was my idol when I grew up. He had a brand new Cadillac every year, come down, had the trunk full of playboys, lifted weights, had a tattoo, you know, the model, that's who I modeled myself. My father and I didn't get along and, you know, that family stuff was a mess. And so that was the guy that, you know, showed me how to work on engines. I mean, he was like the king for me. And he was a bartender down there. He was alcoholic. But he and Barry, which I mentioned to you, they were buddies. They went treasure hunting in South America.

They were like real wild. They were the real deal. And my uncle had been arrested and arrested in South America for gun smuggling. So that's what he did when they were all mixed with guns. They were a different, they were the old time guys. Barry and this CIA agent that I'll get to later in the story used to be Dean Martins and Frank Sinatra's captain on their boat. So the guy Barry, which I'll share more about, he and I became friends. And he didn't use cocaine. He was a drinker. But he could speak Spanish.

So I needed a translator to get to this next step that I was about ready to take. So I started dealing a little bit of drugs for the cocaine cowboys that was in Fort Lauderdale. I went down there and he introduced me to them and they took me under their wing. They liked me, you know, gave me a car when I came down there. It was pretty wild. They were really wild. But they were the kind of guys that would use you and then set you up. So when they get in trouble, that's how they kept their market going.

Right. They would build a clientele and then they would set people up and the people that were working with them would let them continue to deal. So there was some big lawyers involved, a big money. real big money so the big money the money that i started making started when i got in touch with uh that gentleman i gave you that picture right this is uh barry sealed the movie yeah um uh american made american made the guy that they made that they made that they made that movie about barry one of the guys uh and i met the pilots uh from barry they were uh i mentioned that

CIA airport that was all set up by the CIA and they let them use the airport and then when they decided to close them I guess they were as they did that the CIA they were setting up they were infiltrating all the the market that they wanted to so when they got finished with them they arrested them all this is the real story right and then they had a judge I think it was North Carolina South Carolina they had a judge so Barry and his partner the judge the pilots all went to prison I think they got like five years

in the movie and then Barry and his partner they made them get all the money and they came in the courtroom Barry told me he says we had garbage you know trash bags full of money and the judge made them give them all the money and sent them out

so it was all about the money sifting and getting in the right hands you know we know what we know about that I was going to say I had seen the movie when they made it back in the 80s. It was on like HBO and this was when who was the I forget the guy like Tom Cruise played the remake but I forget Dennis Hopper

Oh really? I didn't. Played Barry Seale. Okay. And I always remember you know the end of that movie where they sent him where the they sentenced him to the halfway house Like you have to you can you can work but you have to be at the halfway house

every night and he says in that one he says to the judge what are you talking about like if you make me go to the you're just they'll just kill me in the halfway house yeah yeah and he's the judge is like get out of here you're fun you're getting a deal and sure enough they they kill him in the halfway house yeah pulls up and they're waiting for him yeah um so so what what so at what point at what point do you end up going to like do you start employing stuff from well um so as I was working with Barry and you know getting this experience and I'm trying to think if there would when when the law of course I was best friends with a guy in DC that was like a Mafia family he had a strip

club and different clubs he was my grandfather and his father were friends so I the people I was around and my record and the DEA and we're right close and now Barry and the guy that set up Barry which we found out was the old guy from the captain when they used to captain Frank Sinatra's boat he was in the CIA and at that time I didn't know what his part was and so we needed somebody to fly a shipment to from Florida to me and they used him to do that and then right before he flew back they told me that he just busted I think it was a plane from Columbia there must have been a ton of cocaine and he was the guy that they used and we didn't know it at the time but we'd already set up

him flying cocaine to me I mean the CIA and they work inside I mean this is they they have a cover they last for years. And so I have a guy coming to Maryland from Barry's sending him bringing a shipment from the cocaine cowboys, and he's a CIA agent. And here I am. You know, they kind of knew I was working with this Bolivian group, and my boss was best friends with the guy, Noriega. And that's when they were trying to get the evidence for Noriega.

before they were setting him up. So I couldn't tell who I was with. When this thing started rolling with my new boss, the guy that came from Bolivia, when it came in, it went to the police in Miami. I would go down with Barry, and they would give it to Barry to give to me. So it got so difficult to know who side I was really on.

And that's kind of where I was at with starting my relationship with the guy in Bolivia and that's does that make is it making sense? Yeah yeah

I was thinking about I was just wondering to myself when we said Noriega I was wondering if Colby knew who Manuel Noriega was

oh no well he was a Panama right yeah it was Panamol he was the president yeah that was when the big

cartel was really had to control of the money. The people that were really involved were him and some people, you know, it was a select flu, a few that was friends with him that were covered in many ways. And they they wanted me to meet him and, but I was afraid to and Barry met him in Miami. They were pulling me even closer. And I said, nope, I'm not, I'm not going to get that close. So I mean, this is the president of, you know, Panama, you know, the Panama Canal, you know, Like in Central America and he's running he's running drugs. He's letting drugs get run through the company and I mean through the company through the country and eventually, you know, they're buying, they're selling drugs to get money to buy arms. Yeah.

For the Contras for this. It was a, um, uh, a militant group that was trying to overthrow. Um, what were they trying to? overthrow? Was it Colombia? I don't know if it was one of the one of those countries then I don't know to hold a detail. So they're trying to overthrow like the like a communist regime or something in there, you know, I mean it was a complete you know complete cluster fuck like it was just completely just but but the CIA is actively working with them to get the money

because Congress, they couldn't get money from Congress to fund these guys for this revolution. So what do they do? They start working with these guys in Panama and letting them. and letting them and selling drugs, letting the drugs go in and out to get the money to buy the guns. Yeah.

And it's just, it's just, it's ridiculous. But this is like the president of a country. Yeah. And one of our allies. And then Reagan sends in troops to arrest Noriega. Yeah. Like, because I mean, how do you say, hey, you've been indicted?

Like, it's like saying, it's like saying Gigi Ping has been indicted. Um, we need you guys to hand them over. Yeah. Although that's not going to happen. So they send in American troops to arrest. And there's a huge gun battle. I mean, this goes on like all, like a day or two.

Yeah, this was, yeah. I mean, and then it's covered up. I think it got too close to getting the truth out and what there was really going on. And they shut it down. Yeah. Then Ronald Reagan gets pulled in front of Congress. Yeah. And he can't remember nothing.

Yeah. He's there like, no, I don't. I think he had about 30 different ways to say, I don't recall. It was, you know, at this time, I don't presently recall what happened. You know, I'm not sure I would have to check with my so-and-so. At that time, I believe that I cannot recall exactly what happened. I mean, it was like, this is amazing.

It was like watching Bill Clinton give those answers. It's like, did he just, like, how are your sides? Like, you're a professional sidestepper. Yeah. Like, I almost feel like you answered the question. You didn't, but I almost feel like you didn't. you're so good at it and that yeah that was the iran contra whole affair but it was all these guys were just involved and and the government's involved and that's yeah it's kind of like the um

fast and furious where they're they're they're pulling guns you know from drug dealers and selling them to the to the to the cartel like it's it's insane it's what are you doing this is a d a at f a that are involved in this like that you're not supposed to be doing those things yeah they did some stuff that they don't not supposed to do you gotta see that movie you have to see the movie they don't do listen they don't do nearly as good of a job in the Tom Cruise one I didn't see the first one the first one is better

because you have a full understanding that like this is clearly this is what's happening yeah it's hard to follow in the Tom Cruise one it's more flash but it was a good movie yeah yeah these guys are you know and all these These people are really unique in individuals. I mean, you know, they just chose this other side of the street.

And so it's... It's funny. You never really get like a super average normal guy, you know, in like the drug. People, criminals are they are extreme personalities. Yes, you're right. Yeah. They're either... There's so much talent sitting behind bars.

It's amazing. to say that, you know, if they could ever understand how to find the life that they could be successful with, like you have been, and I'll tell a little bit more about where I came, but there's a ton of talent sitting behind bars. I'll say that. Yeah, it's sad. So what, so at some point you say, hey, I'm just going to start shipping this and stuff in from Olivia. So then, you know, I started working with my boss of, you know, they brought me down to Bolivia, invited me to come visit, you know, and at that time, you know, I was a pretty business type guy, you know, silk suits and, you know, and, you know.

That's the picture, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I enjoyed having money. And, you know, I guess the, at that time, I guess a big shipment was about 10 keys for me. And, you know, my habit was way, way, I was drinking about a fifth of, what's my drink with the Blue Case, Crown Royal. It's been so long, it's been 37 years since, but, you know, I was probably drinking a fifth of Crown Royal almost a day and smoking pot and getting high, you know, because, you know, I had the DEA, the FBI and the CA all around what I was doing. And I got pulled out of the airport. That shipment that that CIA guy brought, I left Florida and stuck about a gram in my pocket

because I knew I was being watched. I wouldn't travel. I was smart enough not to travel and move it myself. Right. Because that's when I didn't want to jeopardize. I knew I was being watched. And they pulled me out, and that was Ronald Reagan Airport. I walked outside with getting in the cabin.

A lady looked like a grandmother. flipped the badge, D-E-A. She said, son, come on, we're going to talk to you. You know, pulled me out of there, took me down in a basement. And, you know, I was making excuses on my, my uncle's an alcoholic, and I had to go to Florida to help them. And they went through my collar and I've had some real thick socks on. And I had a gram in there, and they went down my legs and missed it.

And I was sweating. But that really, you know, and then I knew that was the day before the guy from the CIA was shipping, coming, flying in, and I think they thought they had me, and they didn't, and they didn't blow his cover. And, you know, I had like three or four different places in Maryland. One was in Annapolis. I had different places. I was hiding everything, you know, and moving it around, because that was the only thing I knew is just stay ahead of everybody. So that was. That was the start, and then after that, then we started, I got invited down to, got through that, and that was with cocaine cowboys. I was doing a little bit with a Cuban mafia in the Keys. They were big pot smugglers, and that was real bad cocaine, work with them for a while, and that wasn't, that wasn't good because you get a batch, and then you'd have a hard time selling it, and then they would be back up in Maryland kind of threatening me, you know, what are you going to do? and I had to, I didn't, some of the money, they had shipped something in that they smuggled it in diesel

and it smelled like, it was horrible. So anyway, I lost money on that and I gave them a sports car I had built to pay them off, to make them happy. And then going to Bolivia with my boss, you know, I was, they, it was, I was treated, you know, I would die before I would tell on them. I wouldn't

it was family they trusted me and you know you go through a life of drug and then you get to a place that people really cared and trusted you and I couldn't even when I got arrested

they tried to get me to set them up and I didn't I said you know if I did the crime I was going to do the time and that's another part of the story that's coming up getting pulled over but so

let me let me take the story this way so I was at the edge you know my boss was in New York and he got pulled over this is right nor right before New York got arrested and I believe he was used by our government to get what they needed to set up the the invasion that they had for him and I was just on the out side of that and I think I was watched as I was dealing and they were using it also to kind of corner him but for somehow I did not get arrested it was beyond my understanding that what I was doing I didn't get stopped and but you know so I tried to when he got when when there was about six months where I couldn't get in touch with him

and I said I got to get out or I know I'm going to do big time I know I'm going to be dead or I'm going to I'm going to do big time. So I said, I'm going to open a recording studio. And in the recording studio, I said, well, this is one way I'll be able to support my habit and not have to deal because, you know, I had a huge monster habit of cocaine. You know, you get used to spending money and it's hard not to change unless you're, unless you change your whole life, it's hard to get out of whatever you're doing. Right.

When you get used to money and you probably know that better than I do. but but so so I opened up a recording I took the money I had a the last trip I had about 20 ounces and about 40,000 dollars and I said okay I'm going to take that aside I'm going to build a recording studio and I'm going to somehow get a hit record because I said that's just the only way I'm ever going to get out so I'm another friend I'm still friends with you know I had a piece of property. My father left, my family left, and I was trying to buy it from them.

Had a garage that I used to have a carpet company when I was trying to keep things under cover. I had a little company I was running. So anyway, I remodeled that building and built a recording studio. So in about a year after I got it all put together, it was almost like I was blessed for somehow, You know, I was, and I was kind of on the side of a demonic side or Satan's world.

I'm just going to give this in spiritual terms. I was kind of able to move in darkness without anybody stopping me. You know, the blessings, I'll call them worldly blessings of, you know, meeting that girl and how I didn't get in trouble. I didn't get shot. I mean, my friends were getting shot. I was in some rough places in D.C. and I had no fear. I don't know what protected me. But anyway, got through all that.

And there's recording studio. So I was, this guy that had done three albums with Warner Brothers. Unbelievable. I'm not going to mention his name because he still has his company. He's still doing his thing. But he was a cult. It was a cult. He had six wives and 21 kids. at the time and he was he was my age how was I was thirty thirty three years old and Warner Brothers blackballed him he had articles and playboy and unbelievable a Stevie Wonder James Brown type of charisma you know just a unbelievable a magnetic man a black man that had all the talent in the world but the industry was to him because of what he believed in and they shut him down and he was looking for a guy that

had a studio and money and of course it was me right so when we got together it was like we fit like a glove you know it was like uh i wanted to be successful to to continue my lifestyle and he needed somebody like me to back him that wasn't afraid of the industry or you know so we started an album um and that album uh took us about two years and I was at that time I had no understanding of what it took to produce a hit record so he taught me and I mean it was drooling the time we spent in the studio and what he did with all the musicians I mean oh I mean when you say cutting a groove years ago when they cut a groove they worked until they couldn't stand and and produce something unbelievable it's not like

today is a little different when you produce stuff that was a different era that used to do it on the two-inch tape, you know, it wasn't done with the computer age and stuff. It was like, we used to have to bounce tracks. And so I really got broken into the music industry and learning how to do that. But when you get into a call, there's a spiritual force that we all are in.

And understanding that is where this, what God or what my life has helped me understand is, you know, we all have gifts. You know, I have a gift that I used for my own success as a drug dealer and just all the pain and things that I lived in, I didn't know I didn't have to. So, you know, I'm in this time with this cult, and I had a girlfriend that was a real hippie. Back then, we were hippies, you know. Hippies are drug dealers, one of the other, and I was a drug deal. After two years, I ran out of money and, you know, my family, the boss's wife, called me

because he was not able to move anymore. And she said, you want to come down to Miami? I got, and I wasn't trying, I was trying not to go anymore. I was trying not to be involved. And Barry, which was my driver, was he was in Columbia. He'd spent a lot of time in Columbia. And so I would have to go get it. And, you know, I had long hair, you know, it was like a rock, you know, kind of rock star, you know, velvet sports jacket, top hat, you know, you know, very exotic kind of person at the time.

You stuck out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and not afraid to. And that was very a side of my personality that I'm kind of glad that's not there anymore because it wasn't balanced with, you know, being socially accepted. Right. I'm going to say that I'm sure the Coke helped. Well, it did. It did. It certainly gave me that euphoric that is not grounded for reality. I'll put it that way. That confidence to stand out and not be self-concerned at all. Yeah, I get it. So did you go down there? What happened? Well, so right before I left, and, you know, I was trying to decide what side of my own. Am I going to try to be on a side of life that was, how would I say, appreciated people in a different way that you are when you do, when you're a rock star? and how the sex industry and how the music is promoted and how dramatic and how many people get

heard along the way and how people get used and abused and I had to make a decision am I going to be over here with with him and go for this thing you know we had a song called universal party and it was a moment it's a piece that could move a lot of people in a direction so I wanted to do I am I going to on this dark side and be a drug dealer and what is my life all about why was got why did god or whatever power let me get this far i was trying to figure out what it you know being in the uh psych ward and all the things i experienced the pain i was still carrying what does it all mean and we all get to this point in life uh and and so right before i left i prayed the first time i've ever prayed to to God. I said, God, I said, I can't stop. Something, I said, I can't stop. I can't, I got to

quit this. I was saturated, you know, I had a deviated septum. I couldn't hardly drink anymore. You know, I couldn't hardly do any Coke anymore because my nose would bleed and it was just the insanity of that life. And I had to make a decision, am I going to stay here? And I prayed the guy said if you stop me I'll turn my life over to you so I went down to Miami and you know met his wife and you know they had all the mules they had probably six to eight people that they would pack up so they when they when you left Bolivia they had a room you went through and they asked me when I was in Bolivia they would pay that lady to get you to through to Miami and then when you went through customs they already had

that set up who was going through. So they that's how that's how it works and then the government get paid and everybody gets paid but they they got that group through and met me and uh you know the people got a room I got a room and then all the mules came to the room and unloaded their stuff it was all wrapped in bags and crust and they had it on them all different ways and so I left Miami coming back and you know it was a out of all the years I ever did cocaine that was best batch, the last batch was the best batch. And so I got out of Miami and came to, got in Woodbine, which is the first right in Georgia, got over the line. And by 3 o'clock in the morning, you know, I had a Cadillac, hat on, you know, all that got pulled over. And my girlfriend

was with me. And they put me in the back of that police car. And I said, I'm yours. So that was my surrender. Why did they pull you over? I think, I don't know who set me up. I don't know if it was, I met the guy from Cuba down there. I don't know, the sheriff would never tell me. We're still friends. I talked to him a month

ago. He won't tell me. He won't tell me. He's ex-FBI. He was the FBI agent for, like he worked under Jay Agah Hoover. He worked for I think 15 years before he came sheriff. I mean, he had some power in that town.

And so somebody gave him the, what, just somebody said, pull this car over, searched the car? In Woodbide, Georgia was the first state, first town out. He, he had, that was where they would set people up coming out of Florida. That was their connection, the FBI connection and all the snitches and all that stuff. That was the town you got pulled over. So there was 10 other people in there from, you know, coming that way. That was cocaine corridor. And so I got pulled over.

You know, popped the trunk. I had it hid behind where the spare tire was. There was a compartment I had it in there. It was the back of the car. I said, I'm yours. So that's where my new life really started. I had a choice. I could do it.

I could stay in that confusion. Or I said, okay, if this is what you're going to do, I'm yours. So it was the first week I was there, the GBI in Georgia, came to me and said, okay, you're going to do some big times, son, you know. And I wasn't, and they said, if you, we're going to put you out on 95, and you call your people and tell them you broke down, you got to come.

So that way, I said, and I wasn't, I didn't cooperate with them. I was still kind of out of my mind, you know, I was kind of out there, tell you the truth. I was very, very, you know, you do that much drugs and you're that high for so long, your reality thinking isn't too good. right so you know I was still a rock star I was still a rock star right then you know but I knew I had to make a change you know I had to had to and so that's where

this crazy new part of my life started and so the GBI came and they didn't and then I got a lawyer and my girlfriend wanted to they arrested her and and I said the only way I can get her everybody there got arrested with the girlfriend and the guys all blame their girlfriend. So none of them were guilty. You found what in the car? Baby, what did you have in the car? They were all, so they had, they had a, you know, the sheriff was, he had a hit on him, he was resting. He confiscated when I was there, $18 million off the 95. Wow. And he started, and now this is a little further down, but he started getting people going to Florida. So they had all the informants in the towns telling them what was coming,

and he started getting the money before it went to Florida instead of after. Right. And that's a whole other little piece of the story. Which is really the way they would prefer it. Well, not the judges and lawyers. No. But, yeah, that's where this thing gets real crazy. But so it was interstate transportation I got charged with.

I got 35 years. That's what they gave me. In Georgia? In Georgia? In Georgia. Well, it was interstate transportation, but I got arrested in Georgia. Right. Okay. So it was federal. Federal, yeah. So, you know, it was about three months, and I had three months before my court, before they took me into court and got a lawyer, and they pleaded for eight. But before that, I had to sign the papers saying I was guilty to get my girlfriend out.

And I was trying to save my house, trying to save the recording studio. And so she, went back and I signed papers. I said, I'm guilty. I'm not going to. So on the way back from court, and I had spaghetti legs, you know, that was before I pleaded. They gave me 35 and I could hardly walk up at the courthouse is 100 yards from the jail. And I was walking back there and I said, man, what did I do? I did it. You know, what's going to happen to me? You know, I got 35 years and my parents, my mother wouldn't even talk to me. Nobody's going to, they said, oh, it's good for you to be in jail. Because I drove everybody, you know, I was in and the family suffered.

You know, the family suffers through our insanity. And so they, my sister, it's the best thing in the world for him. He'll finally get his life. They don't know what jail is like are being incarcerated. But anyway, walking back to the jail, there's a little area when you walk into the jailhouse. And it was a brand new jail because the sheriff has been built the courthouse. He built a new jail with money. He was taken off a night.

and the sheriff came in unbelievable character he he he he you know had a big draw accent he said it's but my girlfriend pleaded that he would talk to me after court so she she gave him a flower put a card on his guy you know so he after jail he said okay I'll talk to him when he gets after court so he pulled me in his office and he says son are you guilty I said yes sir he says you know you're the first guilty person's ever been in my jail. And that's how our friendship started. And they had, he says, listen, I might be able to get you a little better on your parole. We're doing a thing saying say no to drugs. And that was Ronnie Reagan's. Right. And I said, yes, sir. Oh, so you were under

the old law. This was before 1986, right? It was actually 1980, the beginning, that's when I got arrested in 86. Okay. So were you under the old law? I don't know. I don't know what. Well, was there was parole. Parole was an option. Like you could get parole. You could get parole. Okay. But, you know, they were still parole and, you know, I, but, you know, I had two and a half keys in the trunk when I got pulled over. So I, you know, said I'm guilty and then they gave me the 35 year sentence. But when I told him that, yeah, I was guilty, says, so listen, I'm going to let you do some testimonies with me. It's an election year. And I need, somebody to go out and explain what it is to you know go through your drug

addiction and stuff so I said thank you Lord I didn't know the Lord then I didn't know anything about God right but I did surrender to him and and that was my first hope that was something you know I was like crushed with that 35-year sentence and then that gave me a little hope that somebody something possibly could you know this guy's gonna let me work with him right so the the first first time I did a testimony for him was in a grade school and that's what I have these shackles

these are my shackles from that time I did that I always like to pull him out because I remember what life was back then and this was I was you know shackled legs arms hands

and then that that was put me in front of a grade school and it really let me see of the bondage I was in You know, we look at the physical, but the spirituals, where the bondage is. Nobody's, you know, we're all, you know, what is freedom? And so this is really my first step in that right, that direction. But like I said, when I do share about my life as what happened, I bring those out

and really helps me to connect. That's who I used to be, bound and not free and not ashamed to who I was. I'm not ashamed anymore. Right. You know, I'm an ex-con. I know it, but God is doing something with my life, you know. So that's where it started. And then, you know, I was out doing a talk with him, and he was, you know, in a suit,

and he rubbed against the chalkboard. And when I was walking out with him, I grabbed his arm and I, you know, you don't touch anybody like that. Right. And I rubbed off the chalk that was on his suit. And that's where our bond, our friendship really started. And he started trusting me. And then it's an amazing thing happened. I became a trustee in the kitchen.

That was a big step getting from yellow, from the orange shoots into the white suits and I had a privilege to going down. And so I did flooring, so I said, you know, they just did a brand new kitchen and they had no flooring in it. And I said, well, let me do, let me put some flooring in here for you guys.

So I ordered some flooring from Maryland. They shipped it down. I put the flooring in. and I just built cabinets for the library in the jail. And then he started picking me up and I started going with him to. So what was illegal? When he picked me up, he took me to Charleston. That's where his family lived.

It was against the law to go out of state. I'd say it now, but I wouldn't. So he would take me there. I would drive. He couldn't drive good. So he had a bad hip. He needed a hip replacement. and i would drive him and we became best friends i started i probably went i was out of the

jail probably three or four days a week riding around with him he took me fish he took me everywhere right i mean it was just like uh insanity and that was uh and then after i probably did uh 15 testimonies the little churches uh community groups and just telling them um what was going on and I started going to church, and I didn't, like I said, I didn't know God, but everybody, there is a God, if you don't believe or not, but there is. And, you know, I've learned the difference between the dark and the light. So that's where God is using me. I understand what that is.

I lived in it, and I started walking a new way. Now, did my drug habit, I hadn't gotten out of jail yet, but my drug habit was, did I smoke, pot in jail. You know, I tried to get people to send me stuff. The cravings I had just didn't disappear, you know, of my lifestyle. But I wanted to do the right thing. So after doing those testimonies, and I said, I said, can you guys get me out of here? The guy that started taking me to church, his uncle was Bill, Jim Proctor. He's the sheriff of Woodbond, Georgia, right now. So he was the guy that I started a communication with. He took me to church with him, his family. And they kind of, his mom on Christmas brought me to his house.

They gave me Christmas presents. They let me, I was in the kitchen making gravy with his mom. I mean, I found out, they didn't judge me. That was where I found out, I'll just say God's love. They loved me like nobody ever did. And it gave me faith that there's hope for me. And that's where my life really started, just from that experience of people that showed me

that I had value and stopped judging me because of what I did and gave me a chance to be a new person. And that's where my walk really started. So his uncle was the judge. The Bill Smith and him went to his uncle and said, can we get you out of here? In 18 months, I was out.

I never, the state penitentiary tried to take me to prison. They wouldn't, the sheriff said, I'm not gonna let him take you out. You're in my, you're in the drug program. And this is in, so the sheriff is running a drug program for the feds? Well, say no to drugs. Oh, okay. So that was a big thing.

You know, he got in touch later with Janet Reno. It went right up to the, that was Bill Clinton's person. We started. Yeah, yeah, she was a U.S. attorney for Bill Clinton. Yeah, after I got out, I went back to Woodbine and work with 12 churches and the jail that had started going to the jail ministry. there. And he got permission. He spent almost 400,000 to send people to go to Saddleback Church to get recovery ministry leaders that we, you know, so that was my first big step. So how much time did you spend in prison? 18 months. 18 months on a 36 year sentence. 35 years. 35 year sentence.

That's insane. What can I say? I can't, I, I, I, I, You know, I've seen people for a couple grams do five years. I was going to say, I've seen guys, you know, they'll bring a gun to a $10 crack deal and get 15 years, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so. It's pretty unbelievable. Yeah.

I was going to say, were you on parole? I was on parole. Okay. And when I got out, I got my girlfriend. I went back to Georgia. I still wasn't talking to anybody in my family. family and I got married, the sheriff gave my wife to me and the guard gave my wife. It was a little town. You can imagine this is pretty wild. And that's where I, you know,

because I kind of disconnected from my family because I didn't know how to deal with that. My mother's still an alcoholic. You know, you know, I was the bad guy, you know, and it took me two years to gain, to see if this was the real deal. Nobody trusted me for the first two years. You know, all the guys were waiting for me to come out of retirement and go back to old life. So what did you do when you got out? You know I got a job with a neighbor for $8 an hour as a laborer in a construction company and I was the happiest. I'm used to walking around with a briefcase full of money. Right. But I was, I was had no worries. I didn't have that ton of bricks on my back and I wasn't going to, you know, that was what I did. And,

And, you know, I did, after I got married, I went back down to Florida. I had Barry, I sent some product down to Barry because I had another place in Fort Lauderdale that I still had a little hideout. And I sent some product down there. And I said, oh, I'm going to get high one more time. And I got high, and I realized I'm not that person anymore. And I was miserable. And I said, I'll never go back.

and that was that was the turning point that this new person I was becoming was real and I wanted God to use me in a new way I found some peace that I never had and you know all the pain and abuse and all that you know that wasn't part of my life anymore so that's where it started and then I came back got a got a job working in a flooring company After I did construction, the guy that sent me that towel that I did to jail. Right. I did flooring for a little bit before I got, I was dealing, but I still had a job. Right. I had a flooring company called Horizon Floors. And I was still dealing. It was drugs and rugs at that time.

But went back and he had a big company, a Jewish man that was really a mentor kind of teaching me business and learning how to do business to be successful in the system. in the system instead of the way I was. You know, I had a talent, but I wasn't doing it legally. So I did that for about three years, and he wanted me to come on staff and salary. And, you know, I was 26,000 in debt. The house I had, you know, that drywall fell,

had holes in the roof and, you know, just building my trust up with my family. It took about two years, became the walking miracle and my mom worked at a deal that I could have the property because I was the youngest and my sisters had moved and that would be an inheritance that she gave my sister so much and then that would be my inheritance so I had a piece of property just did two years with Bert and I said well I'm going to open my own flooring company so I paid off I paid off all my debt I paid my mom the 26,000 and then had nobody after

me and then I got involved in a little flooring company and it was I saved up 26,000 I went to the bank and asked them to match it got a one of the jobs I got that another Jewish friend of mine was going to do a big project twenty six thousand twenty twenty forty six town homes and he awarded me the job so I went to the bank barred money and that was the start of craftmaster interiors. So me and my wife started that company. I had this piece of property. It was four acres. We started working on subdividing that. And then we opened up a company in DC. I had craftmasters of DC and craft masters of Maryland. That went on for

18 years or 10 years. And then she got in an accident. She gave her life to the Lord, but she didn't quit using and she started drinking and doing got in a car accident and started doing oxycontin and that was uh that was a real turning point of her downfall and uh she had a lot of resentments of family she had a rough abuse of things when she was young and could never forgive the people and all that that went through it uh her her drug addiction got uh hard it was the roughest we were married 18 years that was the roughest i wouldn't give up up on her but it was the roughest thing we were she's a brilliant business person um like I said we had the two companies the right as she got that accident and we started really having problems

and she was overdosing I was running her to the hospital about every three months you know it was just it was you know it's kind of what I put everybody through now I was trying to I had to go through that with her and I didn't give up on her but she passed after a big job in D.C., we went on a cruise to St. Martin's, and she passed away on the ship. She overdosed. Her body just gave out. She died down in the sick bay. So that was, how long ago was this? That was in 2009, she passed away. Okay. Or 2008 or nine. I'm not sure exactly. You know, I had a, I was doing a whole city block of buildings from Davis construction. You know, I was doing about a $6 million job, had about 30 guys working, pretty

successful. She was doing all the taxes. I was still not learning how to read and write very good. So I was trusting her to do the business. But when she passed, you know, I continued, but I always had this vision. God really touched me about helping guys, especially incarceration, guys, reentry. That's my heart. I think I mentioned that. you know like I said there's so many gifted guys in bars that if they don't get it if they don't realize they got to get it right they're always going to be there right and and you've taken what you've been through and use your personality and your gifts to do what you're doing now which is unbelievable but but for me God said I want you you know he's you know I have

tremendous blessing with the Lord meaning he's let me develop a way to help men with addiction, and I took, I'm kind of getting ahead of myself. You know, after she passed, I had the business and really felt God calling me to find a piece of property to open up a recovery center. And so that's where my heart was, and I gave, really gave the company and put it in my secretary's hands, and I had three people in the office, and I hired a new tax accountant because you know I never filed anything my wife did it all and I was kind of scared it might fall apart so found a lady I was doing recovery with at a church celebrate recovery at the time and that's what the sheriff helped me do with back in woodbine and send everybody there so

and got involved with Chuck Colson and some very big ministries but because of me being my ex-con I really didn't get they kind of shut the door on me you know doors didn't open for me right it's like unless you've been there sometimes people don't understand what that's all about right and uh chuck kind of a good old boys club yeah it's like opening a halfway house like yeah it's it's you know it's like it's like federal judges and yeah like it's hard to open a halfway house you would think that they'd want as many open as possible yeah yeah yeah so when i i started at when i did celebrate recovery I went to a jail, and I went every Saturday for eight years. And really, you know, it broke my heart when a guy, his time's up.

And I said, where are you going? He says, well, I'll be back here because this is where I, you know, they get used to the system instead of learning they can do it outside. And there's nobody, a lot of churches come in and tell them about God, but they need an experience. They don't need somebody telling them. They need to be shown this can be real. And that's really what God has done with my life.

is saying this can be real, you can get it right. And it's a way that God has showed me that works. And so after being in there and working with guys for about eight years, just realized I had to do something to get them a place to come and have a chance to start over. And so it took me about 10 years to find a place. It was a God's story of what that was. it was really hard to get the money.

And so I sold everything I had. Me and my, got married again. Me and my wife sold everything we had. I had two houses. You know, I had a couple of Mercedes. She had a townhouse. And then I was searching for property. And we bought 16 acres in Woodbine, Maryland.

It used to be an old French restaurant, and it was a sanitarium for that for women. It housed 26 women. Okay. And then somebody turned it into a French restaurant. On 16 acres? You don't need 16 acres for that. It's just a beautiful, it's just a really beautiful.

It's in the countryside, you know, it's really a beautiful piece of property. And it was built in 1862. I was gonna say you could put all of those two businesses on one acre, so you just got a whole bunch of acres also. Yeah, and I was trying to get something not close to anybody because, you know, when you bring people in with addiction. Yeah, of course, the neighbors get upset.

Yeah, yeah. So, like everybody, everybody wants halfway houses and they want rehabilitation, but they just don't want it in their neighborhood. Right. Right. So anyway, I did it very slowly, and the first, the first, not even eight months, so the IRS calls me. And I get one, when they shut one business count down, it was $46,000. And I said, what nobody, what are you doing?

What are you doing? And I had a big tax firm, big money, I paid them a lot of money. In a month's time, I had $500,000, and I just spent every cent that I had on this property. Right. And I said, oh, my goodness, I'm going to lose everything. I thought everything was going to collapse. So I learned how to go through a really hard time. I fired the...

So, okay, so the IRS showed up for what reason? You hadn't been paid? Yeah, it was a year. You had the girls in the office that I trusted, and the new tax firm. they didn't give them all the information. I just did these big huge projects, and the money that I spent was money that should have been spent for taxes.

Okay. And I didn't, nobody told me that's what it was, and I was trusting the girls that my wife, my first wife taught, and they were putting the letters and the stuff for the IRS in a pile, and I didn't get it until I got pulled aside. Okay.

So my office that I didn't run, I thought was doing a good job, got me, wasn't. And I spent the money, I should have been spending on taxes. I sold a house, I thought this was all profit, and I had this big firm that I hired, say, you make sure you do this tax work with them so I don't get in trouble, and they didn't do that either. All right.

So I had to work my way out of that $500,000. I still had the company open, the flooring company. Right. But that was, that was, in the, in the by, it says, you know, moving mountains, you know, God does move mountains because there's a reason he let me experience all this and he got me through that too. And I started working, got a couple jobs and I fired the tax accountants. And I went right in with this little country accountant and, you know, went and visited the IRS myself. I said, you know, I was kind of fearful, but I said,

I'm just going to, these guys are getting me in more trouble. I had a $50,000 bill from the tax company that I hired to keep me from paying taxes. And I said, I'm not going to do this. I just do it myself. So I worked through that, got all my bills paid. I've got that 500. I went and negotiated every bill. It probably came down to about 300, but I got it all done. Right. You negotiated with the IRS, the debt. Yeah. You're never getting the 500. You may get 300. You'll never get five. Yeah. So that worked out. So that's been 12 years that I've got the property and building the ministry or or second chance center and and now I'm really at a point where you know I've been very under the radar with what we do and and you know just trying to

I want to build a place for guys to learn trades also I've got a a construction company I've got a culinary chef. I just remodeled a kitchen in the building so guys could learn culinary school and also a fire alarm company. I got three ways to teach them a new trade if they want to learn a new trade and a new way to live. So that's taken 12 years to get it to where a guy could have a chance to have a new life. And re-entry, there's a chiros ministry that goes into jails and they spend a weekend working with guys and they just, because of the pandemic, they haven't been letting them go back in.

They're doing that and I'm going to work with them. I'm going to keep at least four beds open for guys that are in prison that really want it because everybody talks about it, but you know, you've got to really want it to make it work. How many guys do you have right now? Right now I've got 10 guys and it kind of alternates. Eight is what I'm capable

because a couple guys will leave or whatever. Right. And I'm rezoning to get a, hopefully 16 to 20 guys. That's the, I've rebuilt the property from A to Z. You know, right now, that's what we're doing is rezoning.

And I had to build kind of a following. And right now, we have about $95,000 a year from just people sending money in because I haven't got paid for 12 years. My wife doesn't get paid. I just do this because of my heart. I'm not looking for money.

I'm trying to build this for the next generation. Right. because things are getting tough out here. So right now, we've got $95,000 a year to pay. I got two young men. One of them's been through the program. I've got to raise up about at least $150,000 a year and donations to meet the $400,000 a year bill

at cost to keep the property open. And somehow, somehow God keeps sending people to help. And this connection of coming here to talk to you has been quite unique. going to say the guy that contacted me had been through the program he is a graduate yeah yep and uh you know i'm not a social media guy i'd rather be in the back of the the building even to a church i i want to be in the back i don't want to be up front right so me talking is uh um you know i'm just trying to figure out a way to give some guys another chance okay so uh how are you

are you feel you good i'm i'm really good i mean uh i think uh you know uh i think uh you know uh you know uh and then you know the book we have and right i got another book i'm doing um colby will put it uh in the description box right so um i think it's on amazon i think you can get it on amazon if somebody wants it yeah i'm sure it's on like i said working on another everything's on yeah yeah so just so that that's a picture of my grandfather that's the guy that uh okay he was a pretty uh gangster guy if you can send all these yeah i can if you can send all these Barry Seal? The Barry that my buddy's there.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think last time I talked to him, it was about eight months ago, and he has always been in touch. He's this sweetheart of a guy, just a sincere, a guy that would die for you. That was the guys that I work with. That's a guy, Dale, my little family was a tough little family, you know. That's how I put around me to keep from making sure I didn't go down

before I surrendered, if you want to call it that. Is there anything else that I, anything I didn't ask? I think that's, you know, I have an unbelievable wife now. That's, it's been a huge part, you know. I'm a faith-based program. You know, I don't push anything on anybody. I respect other people, but it was my ticket to a new life. Right.

And that's really, you know, I know Jesus Christ, I'm not a preacher, but I know what he did for me and how. my life changed. So that's really, you know, what, and I've, like I said, you know, I appreciate what God has done with you one way or the other. He's using you to help people. And that's huge, you know, that's a, that's a blessing. So. All right. Did it, did you, are you good? Did I do okay? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to, I just wanted to make sure that, you know, I didn't miss anything. No, I think that's pretty much, yeah, I think that's a pretty much lay. There's a lot of detail I didn't uh you know but I didn't want to waste your time or you know

all right well well thank you for thank you for coming out yeah I appreciate it yeah thank you for the opportunity hey I appreciate you guys watching the video if you like the if you like the the interview do me a favor and hit the subscribe button hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this also share the video because that really does help you know hit the like button and leave a comment in the comment section. Also, we're going to have the book. It's going to be in the description

so you can hit the link and buy the book. And I really appreciate you guys watching the video. So thanks for checking in and see you.