Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Surviving 27 Stab Wounds | Connecticut River Valley Killer

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Jane Boroski is the lone survivor of the Connecticut river valley killer.In the 1980's, a serial killer was preying on women in the area surrounding the Connecticut River Valley in New Hampshire and Vermont. To this day, the identity of the killer is still unconfirmed, and remains one of New England's most prolific unsolved cases.

He put the knife up against my neck by the car door. And I saw a vehicle drive by. And I was like, the only way I'm getting out of this situation is to run and scream. And the next thing I know, I can feel his hand on the back of my shoulder as I was running. And he just tackled me down like a football player. He ultimately stabbed me 27 times. Then he just so calmly got stopped. and just so calmly, you know, walked away.

Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I'm doing an interview today with Jane Borowski, and she was, her case was covered on Unfold Mysteries, and she was attacked by the, I want to say, it's the River Valley killer, she survived and we're going to listen to her her story and and talk about what's happening with the case and I've looked into it I've watched a couple of videos and Jane's going to tell us what happened and what's going on with the case right now so I appreciate you guys watching and check this out one you know obviously I started and I say you know I appreciate you doing this interview I would call him a Zoom interview but whatever you know I don't know this is streamer but I appreciate you doing the interview And I watched, so I watched the episode of Unsolved Mysteries. Yeah. And I watched a podcast with you talking about, it wasn't so much talking about your story as just kind of like the aftermath of what's happened since then. It was on the, it wasn't on your, it wasn't on your YouTube channel because you have a YouTube channel called,

what invisible is it invisible tears yes invisible tears and i watched you on a podcast with several other people and i think it was called like the um was it the underground or what was it called you know i'm talking about it's um the name of a podcast was it was it was crawl space crawl space yeah yeah okay underground crawl space but yeah they'll appreciate that Yeah, so I watched your on, watch the video on crawl space, and I know you just started your own channel that is, it's basically kind of an investigative channel on crimes and crimes and victims of crimes and that sort of thing. Yeah. Is that right?

It's kind of, it's kind of based on, for one, the Connecticut River, the Connecticut River Valley murders. that happened in the late 70s and 80s. And I just kind of, nobody's really, they're cold cases. Like my attack happened in 1988. So they're all cold cases. And they're kind of being forgotten. And they're unsolved. Right.

And so we wanted to start a podcast about, getting to know the victims more, the victims that didn't survive. Because if you look them up online, all you see is the horrible thing that happened to them. You know, they're horrible murders. But you really don't know much about them. And so we really, we want to focus on that too. And I want to focus on, what we're focusing on, too, is after something horrific like this happens to you, you don't just get over it and move on with your life.

There's a lot of, you know, physically I healed fairly quickly. Mentally, it took like 20 years before I started getting counseling and really started healing because I was clinically diagnosed with PTSD. And I didn't know that for 20 years after my attack. And there was a lot of struggles in my life. And I'm very, very transparent on my podcast about everything that I've been through and what I've, you know, had to deal with. And, and my life was anything but normal for the first 20 years after my attack until I got counseling. So counseling really helped me a lot.

And, you know, I hope to help somebody else out there to understand, understand, people. PTSD a little bit better, especially if they have it and haven't been diagnosed with it. So, yeah. Okay. Well, so let's talk about what happened. I mean, there had been these unsolved murders where, were they all women that had been attacked? They were. They were.

The bodies were found. Yep. They were stabbed to death. And moved, right? Like were they moved and then attacked somewhere else or? That's what they believe. Yeah, they were abducted. Some of them were abducted.

Some of them were hitchhiking and were picked up. And they were taken to their spot and stabbed to death. This was started in 19, you said 78, 79. 78 was the first one, Kathy Milligan. Yeah. And then in the 80s, it was Elizabeth Critchley, Eva Morris, Ellen Fried, Bernice Cordomache, Linda Moore, Barbara Agnew, and then myself. And after, I'm the only survivor. And that we know of, we're still really looking into that, too. We think that I was the last victim. So we're not really sure. We're still looking into that. I think there may have been more after me, but I'm not sure. Were they all found in the same general area?

Claremont area, Unity, Kellyville. The interesting thing is like Elizabeth Critchley and Eva Morris, they were both their bodies were found 500 feet apart, but five years apart. So, like, they found Elizabeth, and then five years later, they found Eva's body 500 feet from where Elizabeth's body was found. So we know that was definitely a dumping ground. And they've been attacked in the same way, and so they're police their shirt's the same killer. Yeah, yeah.

Most of the bodies were really badly decomposed because it was, you know, they went missing in. It was a year or two before they were found. But I guess after doing forensics, they found that they were definitely stabbed to death. Okay. And so, all right. So the police definitely think that they're all, all connected. Yeah, yeah. And then they do.

And then one day, so there were all these murders and then one day you went to the fair? Yeah, I went to a fair. the county fair in Swansea, New Hampshire. And I was coming home. It was really hot. It was so hot and humid that night. And I was seven months pregnant. And I was going by a store.

It was closed, but I had a soda vending machine outside. So I parked in front of the soda vending machine, grabbed a cup, grabbed a soda, and then the machine ate my money. So I had to go grab another soda. And there was a pay phone next to the soda machine. And I noticed a vehicle came, pulled in and parked right on my passenger side of my car and parked. They were like right in front of the pay phone.

And I was getting ready to leave and I having to look in my rearview mirror and he walked around the back side of my car up to my driver's door and opened up the door. and opened up the door and tried to grab me out of the car. First, he asked me if the pay phone worked. And just as he did that, he opened my car door and tried to take me out of the car. And I fought. I fought really bad. Somehow I got my feet up and I started kicking him. And as I was kicking him, I ended up kicking my windshield.

and smashed in my windshield. And it was, I don't know, after a few seconds of fighting, all of a sudden he takes a knife out and says, maybe this will persuade you to get out of the car. And it did. That definitely did. And I got out of the car. I was really persistent not to go with him. So he just acted like really weird.

confused. And I was scared. I didn't know what this guy wanted. I didn't know. I certainly did not think that he was capable of doing what he did. So he asked me if this was a Massachusetts car and told me I beat up his girlfriend. And I was like, no, this isn't a Massachusetts car. Massachusetts car and I certainly didn't beat up any anybody and he acted as if he was going to walk

back to his vehicle. He started walking back to his vehicle. And by this time, I'm like, oh my God, this guy's a whack job. What the hell is he doing? And then it dawned on me. I have a smashed windshield. What the hell? So for whatever reason, I yelled to him, Hey, asshole, what about my windshield? Words I regret for the rest of my life. Because then he turned around and came back to me and put a knife up against my neck. People judge me. I should have got back in the car.

I didn't feel threatened by him. I really didn't. When he was talking about the plate and me beating up his girlfriend, I just didn't feel threatened by him. Um, I didn't know, I had no idea he was going to be doing what he, what he did. But, um, he put the knife up against my neck by the car door. And I saw a vehicle drive by. And I was like, the only way I'm getting out of this situation is to run and scream.

So I started running and screaming at the vehicle. And the vehicle just drove by. And the next thing I know, I can feel his hand on the back. of my shoulder as I was running, and he just tackled me down like a football player. And I was on my back, and he got on top of me and just started stabbing me. And it was so surreal. It was like, I couldn't believe that he was doing this. But yeah, I knew I had to protect my baby. So I had a lot of defensive wound, stab wounds on my hands.

And it was, he ultimately stabbed me 27 times. And then he just, just so calmly got stopped and just so calmly, you know, walked away. I could hear him walking away. And I'm laying on the ground thinking, oh, my God, I can't believe this just happened to me. And I knew I had to get up and get help. So as I rolled over to my hands and knees and getting up, I'm also wondering where the heck is he? Where is he?

Is he coming back? You know, I don't hear anything. All of a sudden, I heard the vehicle. And he just slowly drove right by my head as I was getting up and looked right down at me. And I looked right up at him. And he drove away. And you think he felt like he had finished you off and there was just no surviving what had, I mean, 27 times. Who's going to survive that?

Yeah. I do. I believe he left me for dead. He thought I was going to die. I truly believe that. But then, at that moment, I think he thought I was going to die. But when I got my car and I had a friend that lived about two miles down the road on the same road, I knew I had to get to his house.

So I started going to driving down the road, and the next thing I know, I'm right behind him. So he wasn't speeding off. He wasn't trying to get out of the area real quick. He was just casually driving. Yeah. And I got behind him, and I was like, oh, my God, he's going to see where I'm going. That was my biggest fear. He was going to see where I was going.

Okay, now he knows I'm still alive. He knows that I'm driving. and he's gonna know where I'm going. So I came up on my friend's house and I pulled in the driveway and he kept going. And I said, I got out of my car. I didn't even shut my car off. I went up to my friend's door.

He had this green door open. He came to the door. He must have heard me drive in the driveway. And I just said, I'm some asshole just stab the crap out of me. You need to get me help. And then I collapsed on his stairs. It was, I was just losing so much.

much blood that I don't even know how I made it to his house. But yeah, so while he's calling for help, all of a sudden we hear the car come back, the vehicle. And we hear it squeal its tires, like slam on his brake, squeal its tires, and then it took off. And I think it was him. I think he wanted to see where I was and see if people were home, they were helping me or whatever.

And then he took off and gone in the night, never to be seen again. He wants Khan Bank of America out of $250,000 using nothing but a fake ID and his charm. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. So, I mean, you, you called the police.

You, so when you, one, when you, I just, and I noticed this when I had watched the program and then again, like, I understand that, you know, in that moment, you're just trying to get away, but you do, if you think about trying to get his, uh, his tag number at the time and that never even occurred to you, like, you got big. I wish I did. Yeah, I mean, it never occurred to me because I was just, for one, I was in shock because of what just happened. to me. I was just stabbed 27 times. And then afterwards, I found out he had sliced my juggler. So I was losing an enormous amount of blood. But I was so scared. I was more scared about him seeing where I was going. Right. And so it just, it just never occurred to me. But when I was hypnotized, the plate was really dirty. Right. So I don't think I really could have. I don't. identified the plate to begin with because the plate was really, really dirty. It's easy to look back and think of all the things, you know, I should have done this, I should, but in that moment, your instincts are kicking in and you're just like, I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to survive for the next five minutes. Yeah, but don't forget, too. I was only 22 and there was no social media then. There was no internet then. And so I realized there was a, a serial killer lurking in New Hampshire. I didn't realize that there were people out there doing this.

You know, I was 22. I was young. I've never been exposed to anything like this, you know, true crime or crime or anything like that. The town that I was attacked in, there was virtually no major crime back in the 80s. It was a really small community. So, yeah, I can look back and say, oh, I wish I was. I did this, wish I did that. I didn't know that, you know, this is happening in the real world.

I was 22. Right. So my question is that your friend calls the police and an ambulance. Obviously, they show up, they come, they pick you up. At what point did the police show up to question you and start looking into this? Well, when I was still at the house, a real. really good friend of mine, me and my husband's, P.D. Fire on him. He had showed up. He was the cop on duty. And he showed up. He knew me right off the bat. And he kept asking me,

you know, who did this? And I told him I didn't know. And at that point, I had given him a description of the vehicle. So they knew the vehicle description. What was it? It was like a 1985 to 19. 1987 Jeep Waggoner. It was either dark green or dark brown and it had wood green sides. So they had a really good description of the vehicle. But when I went to the hospital and then I was immediately brought to the OR operating room, I was up in intensive care for about five days.

I had two collapsed lungs. Cut my juggler. They gave me two bags of blood. Slice my tendon on my hand, sliced my tendon on my knee, and lacerated my liver. But my baby survived. Thank God.

There was nothing, nothing. No stabs, no injury to her whatsoever. So while I was in the hospital, I was on the ventilator. And that's when they did the composite, which is interesting because it was all done by me blinking my eyes and them showing me these little slides of different noses and faces and stuff like that. But it was after I got out of ICU and got into my regular room is when all the detectives came up and actually interviewed me to actually know what happened. So for like five days, they had no idea what actually happened. Um, they knew that I was stabbed.

They knew it was, you know, they knew the vehicle and, um, but very, very little more than that. Um, back then there was, it's not like there was a camera on every court street corner, you know, back then. Oh, yeah, there was no camera on the store. Drive away all the way, you're done. Like it's virtually impossible to track someone down at that point. Yeah.

I know that. For a couple of days, they did some roadblocks to see if anybody around the store to see if anybody had noticed anything that night, heard anything, and looking for the type of vehicle that I described. So I know that they did that for a few days before I came to and was able to be interviewed. But, you know, at the time, I think they did what they could. There was no forensics back then. They couldn't do DNA or anything like that. They did lift fingerprints off my car. But, I mean, there wasn't much they could do back then.

They have nothing to compare it to. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I mean, they couldn't put fingerprints in CODIS back then. Right. They couldn't run DNA back then because it was that didn't exist. So. So how long?

Did that, did they immediately connect it to the, up, to the, the murders that it occurred? Or was that something? That's interesting because, um, the media very quickly did. Because, uh, I was in the hospital and I actually read it in the paper. And then when the detectives came up, because they were up there almost every day seeing me. And then when they came up, I was like, uh, is this true? Because I, I never heard about this. the other murders.

I didn't know anything about that. I didn't know that, you know, the serial killer was running around and had already killed these women. So, you know, I was like, is this true? And they were like, yeah, we're pretty sure that you're connected to them.

So that's when I found out. I guess there's quite a few factors that they, they, consider that they considered and how they determined that I was I was one of the victims actually I'm the survivor right yeah and then so okay so one they they never caught the guy and no but you're saying there you think there may have been other other victims after you that haven't been connected and where did that go because I had heard that there were that there were other there were suspects like they suddenly had suspects but they just

never connected so do what what happened with that i mean obviously this dragged on for years yeah decades at this point my attack was 34 years ago so i i don't know i think I know that it's in the cold case unit, all these, all the, this whole case, my case and their cases. But, and I know that a lot of different eyes have looked at them. But, I mean, personally, I haven't been called in 30 years. They haven't, with all the different eyes going in and looking at them, at these cases and looking at mine, I have not had,

I would think that some detective would, with new eyes would call me and say, have some kind of questions for me after 34 years. You know, oh, I, you know, I need this clarified. Can you clarify this for me or can you clarify that for me? I haven't been contacted over 30 years, Except a couple of years ago, two years ago, exactly. I had a detective from Concord call me out of the blue and said,

can we re-fingerprint you? I'm just briefly looking at your case and want to re-fingerprint you because I know there was some fingerprints lifted off your car and I want to eliminate, which they did that back then. Everybody that touched my car was fingerprinted. so that they could eliminate fingerprints. And I was like, yeah, I'll come in. I have no problem with that.

He's like, oh, I'll call you in two weeks. Give me about two weeks, and I'll schedule you in with, and, you know, you can go right over to Keene and do it instead of coming all the way to Concord. And I was like, okay, give me a call back. Let me know when and where, perfectly available. I haven't heard from him back. He has never called me back.

I haven't heard from them since. It was just so weird. It's like all of a sudden out of the blue, they call me and then I don't hear back from them. So I don't know. I don't know. I think that with my case and their cases, it's a lot of misopportunity of solving these. Right. Especially over the years.

I mean, now they've got forensics and they got DNA and they've got all this stuff. And are they running this stuff, you know? They got CODIS now. Are they running, you know, fingerprints through CODIS? But they won't talk to me, so I have no idea. They won't even talk to me anymore. I try calling up there and I get the run around. Somebody will call you back and nobody does or I don't know.

They took me, they have a website, the cold case website for New Hampshire, and it has all the cold cases on there. And for, God, good five, ten years I was on. on there and all of a sudden they took me off it. So I'm not even on there anymore. It's like, you know, it's frustrated. You know, all I want is the answers. I don't want to bug them.

I don't want to tell them how to do their jobs. I mean, they should know how to do their jobs. But I want answers, you know, where is this going? Are you still looking at things? There's new, there's new technology nowadays. Are you using it? You know, but I don't get anything because they won't even talk to me anymore. Well, sometimes it's publicity that changes changes these

things like there. Oh, yes, it does. There were there were some several murders and in Tampa and the problem is especially something like this since it's so random. Like you don't know who this guy is. He obviously didn't know who you were. He's driving by. He saw an opportunity. Hey, there's a girl, there's a woman there, young woman at a store by herself, very little lighting, no cameras, nobody's around. let me swing in here. He may have been driving around for hours looking for that opportunity. So the thing is like there was a murder in Florida. I mean, there's tons of these. But this one in particularly in particular stands out where there had been a was a woman that had come to Florida on vacation with her two daughters met had a guy stopped or a guy had met her at a gas station. He said, oh, you're on vacation with your daughters. let me take the three of you out um to you know on a fishing trip and she said oh that'd be wonderful you know and this is i want to say this is in the 80s he he gave he wrote down his

or he wrote down something for her like his an address a phone number something i forget what it was and or like hey i'll meet you here at this time like an address and he just wrote it down and gave it to her and she left that address in her car somewhere and they found the car later they never found the kids she had told somebody oh I met we met a guy at a gas station he's going to take us out he has a boat they never heard from her again nobody ever heard from her again they found like this in either her car or in her hotel room something and that went unsolved for a couple decades and then the cold case

team got a hold of it and somebody went through and said we have a we have one clue all we've got we know as a man we have a clue and they took that and they put it on a billboard and said does anybody recognize this handwriting and a woman drove by and

saw the handwriting and called the police and said that's my ex-husband's handwriting why what's going on who are those women And they talked to her and they said, did he have a boat? She goes, yes, he did have a boat. He's had several boats.

We live a couple of blocks from, and they said, are you in this area? He said from this address, we lived a couple blocks from that area. When was this? Happened to be she was on vacation for a week visiting her mother. Turns out he had choked her several times. He was extremely abusive. He'd been arrested in the past. He had attacked women in the past.

He was just across the board. And somehow or another, they came and they arrested him and they grabbed him. And eventually he confessed. And that was it. And he explained the whole thing. He had met her. He'd met the kids. Brought him on the thing.

Got him on the boat. You can imagine what happened. Dump their bodies in the ocean. But I mean, so sometimes it's some guy, some guy that you don't, you don't know that says, hey, who knows? I mean, I can think of another cold case where they went and re-interviewed the victim. And it just so happens that while she was saying, she was being re-interviewed, the one police officer asked one question that nobody else had asked.

And he went and it was like, what? And she said that. He said, that's weird. So he went back and checked something out. And next thing you know, boom, they had the car. Track the car down, went in, talked to the guy. And then sometimes it's just a matter of talking to their friends. and family, and they say, oh, man, he admitted to me that he had done this.

And then they look into the person and they find out that his DNA matches. And you just don't know, you just don't know. But it's a combination of publicity and it's a combination of going back and looking. And, you know, I mean, I know the police have to be frustrated. But, you know, and there obviously, there's, you know, there's a lot going on. Yeah, there is a lot going on now. But I mean, you don't know if you take another look at it. Exactly.

So I had seen on the Untold Mysteries one where they had done an update and they said that you believed that it might be possible that there was, that you thought you might have known that this person had, somebody had died and you thought he might be a suspect. Michael Nicolao. If you go on and punch up Connecticut River Valley serial killer, Michael Nicolao's pitcher is there. I'm going to explain a few years ago, quite a few years ago, I think it was 2008 or something like that, 2005, I was contacted by a private investigator in Florida, and she was investigating a missing person and come up upon a Michael Nicolao and she, upon investigating him, she really felt, she came across the Connecticut River Valley murders. So she really felt like he was connected. I formed a relationship with her and we were, um, she really convinced me that it was him. I was, you got to understand it. I have so many people come to my door.

Still, still, after all these years, just a few months ago, I had one. They come to my door, they email me, or they, you know, send me letters. I know who did this. It was my husband. It was my ex-husband. It was my cousin. It was my classmate or whatever. A lot of people have come to me.

me with this information. And, you know, I've always been given to the state police, bring it to conquer to the detective unit. I can't do anything with it. But Lynn, this private investigator, she had told me that she had given all the information to the detectives, but they weren't doing anything about it. And that, you know, we needed to do all this social media. and all this media to get the word out that it was Michael Neklau and da-da-da-da.

And I was really against it at first because I felt like I thought it was the detective's responsibility to do that. But she just felt like that they weren't giving it enough attention. And, you know, she made me feel like if I didn't do this and nobody was going to take us seriously, that nobody was ever going to take any of any of this. seriously. So I did it. I wish I didn't. I wish I had just distanced myself and let the detectives investigate it. So I ended up severance, I ended up just not having contact with her anymore. And I've had a few other private investigators look into Michael Nicolao. And, yeah, he doesn't fit. There's a lot of things. She was trying to make everything fit with Michael

Nicolow, but there was a lot of things that didn't fit. And she never focused on that. She just tried to get it against the guy or did she was? I think it was for her own agenda because she had a lot of plans. Like she wanted to do a movie and, and I think she felt like if she could solve this because nobody else could, then it would bring her a lot of, she loved media attention, loved media attention. Yeah, there's long. And I think that's what she, that's what I think she was trying to get was a lot of media attention. And she was trying to convince people this was him for her own agenda. And as soon as I realized that is when I decided I didn't want contact with her anymore.

And as I talked to, you know, I did talk to the detectives once about it. And they were just like a lot of things didn't fit. You know, we're still looking into it, but just a lot of things didn't fit. And same with some of the private eyes that I had looked and had other people look into it. And they were like, you know, some things fit, but a lot of things don't fit. And a lot of her information was hearsay, secondhand. Just wasn't a lot of reliable information. But she went wild and crazy on social media and on the internet.

So now, when you look these up, there's his name, there's his face. And we're trying to get rid of that now. Because these are still unsolved cases. That's what I really, really want people to understand. These are still unsolved. Nobody has ever been convicted of these. Right. And I really want people to understand that.

Right. What is going on? Like, they're mowing or something. I hear that. I don't know. There's nothing I can do about it. I think you want to wait 20 minutes. I think, so, you know, it's funny.

Like, I have a guy that grew up in my neighborhood had been murdered. And everybody knows who did it. Right. So, and this is, this is an, you know, upper middle class neighborhood. Just some kid who, when he was 19, 20, 21 years old, started selling, selling drugs and started selling drugs with another kid. And then he ended up rip, the first kid ripped off the second kid. Well, the second kid, well, actually the second kid ended up ripping off the first kid. And so what happened was the first kid who's an upper middle class, you know, kid, like he's selling drugs, granted, but, you know, not like you wouldn't think violent or anything.

And he one day talked to the second participant and said, hey, let's go buy some more drugs, acting like he didn't know that he had ripped him off, picked him up in a used or in a rental car that was rented to him from his girl. friend picked him up drove him out to the woods and basically tied him to a tree and broke his fingers and beat him and then eventually shot him several times and left him for dead he was found about two three weeks later by a guy that you know they call the snake charmers the guys who catch they catch snakes in Florida it's a thing here so some guy in the middle of nowhere found the body Now, when the police went in, looked into it, they were, they're like, look at the last person, last phone calls made to this guy was this guy. He picked him up at his house. He picked him up in a rental car. Oh, and they found the rental car set on fire a few miles away. Like the whole thing is, it's like there's all this circumstantial evidence. And the guy, the murderer has confessed several times.

He's told people in bars. He's gotten drunk with buddies and told them, oh, I killed him. but it's still cold case because they're like murder is very hard to prove you know we go that like one and his parents are saying he was home the whole time with us never left that weekend so everybody who's saying he left and picked this guy up and that's a lie he was here with us we watched the football game we don't know what you're talking about like you know the girlfriend who initially said you know yes I had rented a car but it got stolen you know all of these little things that you know that they could never quite put it together like we can't have the girlfriend say the car got stolen because there's the car that they were said he got picked up with the parents are saying that like it's there's lots of circumstantial evidence but the truth is in the end it's not enough for us that we can't spend 40 or 50,000 dollars trying a case where the girlfriend's going to say I rented the car he never had it it was stolen you know the parent says He never left the house. Like, what do you really have? You've got one person that says, my boyfriend said, this guy was picking him up. And I remember he called him and said, hey, I'm outside.

And he walked outside, got in the car and left. That's all I know. Is that the car? Yeah, it was like a rental car, like an average four-door car. I think that's the car. Is it the car? They made it. They made 30,000 of them.

You see I'm saying? Like, it's like, it's like, I do. It's not enough. enough. The evidence is there, and a lot of people are like, oh, you should this. They could that, well, you have to understand. They understand what's going to be presented in front of a jury, and then they lose, and then they've lost it. Then they never get that guy. So, you know, it's, it's, I see that it's a tough situation for police, especially when it seems like all the evidence is there. He had multiple times. He told people he did it. He's told people. Yeah,

he was drunk in a bar, mouthing off. It wasn't recorded. will that person get on on the stand and say he said it and even then it's just here's I mean it's just yeah and the problem is in most states hearsay you know really isn't admissible so he may not be able to get on the stand and say that he heard it it's it's a problem you know it's um so I mean I feel it's like I always feel for the detectives I mean I feel for you know someone who's like hey it's so obvious the problem is what they believe and what they can prove are just two different things. And it sounds solid to you and I, but then they know what it's going to sound like in front

of a jury. It's a tough situation, you know. He once got plastic surgery because he didn't like the photo on his wanted poster. His legend precedes him. The way indictments proceed arrests. He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, But when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. So now you started a podcast.

I checked it out. I saw that you just started posting videos only what, about three weeks, maybe a month ago? We launched August 29th. Okay, yeah, yeah. A month, a month, okay. um yeah so i saw that and what i'll do is it's it's um hold on what it's called invisible tears yeah and i'll leave the link in the description if anybody wants to click on and the first

but the first two episodes you just go over your your story right i do i start right from the beginning and and talk about my whole attack um all the way through to you know maybe in the hospital, and then the following one is me having Jessica, my daughter. So who's the person? There's another person that's on the podcast with me. My co-host, Amanda, she does all the editing, and she's the producer with her husband, and she's my co-host, and she's my, gosh, she's my everything. She's my life coach and my Riki master and a very, very dear friend.

Are you, I'm sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, are you planning on, see, now they stop, they stop mowing. Are you planning on interviewing the, trying to interview the families of any of the other? We are. We are. That's going to come next season, probably in the spring. Because I'm also doing, I'm also involved with another project, Dark Valley.

And they're doing, that's what Tim and Lance and Jen from Carl Space Media. And they're going to be launching in the spring. I want to say right around the April, April mark. So they've been doing a lot of interviewing of the family members. And so we think we're going to be interviewing family members in our next season. But we interviewed John Philpin. And he was the, the, um, uh, investigator. Yeah, he's, um, um, God, I just went dead.

Um, he's the one that does, oh, criminal profiler. Okay. Yeah, John's the criminal profiler of all these cases. And he was very involved with the task force that they formed in the 80s. And, uh, I did a wonderful interview with him, um, very. intriguing man. You know, I've known him for years, but in this interview, I learned so much more about him. Wonderful, wonderful man. He's been doing criminal profiling for years and years with a lot of different big cases. And I'm also going to, I got a, there was another

victim that I did an interview with. Her name is Michelle Renee. She did a They did a movie on her on Lifetime, held hostage. And she also wrote a book, held hostage. Her and her daughter were at home one night, and these men came in and held them hostage overnight and tied her daughter up in dynamite and made her go and rob her bank the next day. She had to leave her daughter wrapped in dynamite and go rob her bank. amazing story, terrifying. But her, she's just such an inspiration to everybody because she's overcome so much.

And she shares her story and her healing with PTSD. And so that's another wonderful interview. She's a very, very dear friend. It's funny because she lives out in California, but, and we never met. We've only talked on the phone, but it's like we, we know, we known each other forever. So, yeah, we've got, we got a lot of good stuff coming. A lot, I talk a lot about my life after the attack, because a lot of people don't realize, you know, my life just didn't, my attack just didn't end that day.

It carried on in my life for, for 20 years. I mean, the financial impact that, that it put on my, life from my attack, the mental, I received hate letters. It's like, you know, doing unsolved mysteries and stuff like that. It was like, the hate letters are, that, that one just aired yesterday. That episode was just on yesterday or today. Today, it's going to be on. The podcast where you talk about the hate letters? Yeah. On your channel?

Yeah, on Invisible Tears. Yeah, I mean, people, like, back with this happened a couple of years after my attack, people were, it was right after Unsolved Mysteries. People wrote me letters, like, from different parts of the country. And he wrote letters because we didn't have the Internet or anything back then. But they, yeah, they wrote me letters saying, I need to stop. not playing the victim card and take responsibility for what I did. And I should have known better than to stop at that store at night, especially putting my unborn child in dangers.

The letters are crazy. It was like... People are scumbags. They are. But you know what? They'll leave stuff in the comments, you know, like just they troll you and they'll say... And they're just looking for attention. I mean...

Yeah. But yeah, they're looking for attention on... on the media part. But this was before social media. I mean, these people... Well, I think they still existed. Yeah, yeah. Instead, they had to write letters.

Yeah, yeah. It was, but the thing about those was, them affected me for a long time. I didn't tell anybody about those letters until I told my counselor 20 years later. I mean, those letters reading them all the time really convinced me for a long time, that my attack was my fault.

And I talk a lot about that in this episode. Because you, it was your fault because you wanted a soda? Because I wanted a soda. It was hot and I wanted a soda like that, like, you know, like no matter where you go at any time, you really, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, like you shouldn't be like you should be able to anywhere, where else could be safer than a store with no people around.

Yeah. There's nobody around. Like, I should be perfectly fine here. No, I should stop in the, you know, in an area where there's packed full of people. To me, people are dangerous. So. Yeah, it's just crazy. Crazy time.

You know, people will, they can twist facts to suit their own needs. So I was going to mention this to you. You know, I was, when I was incarcerated, well, one, your friend, by the way, that, the way that was the daughter was held hostage yeah have you ever heard the the pizza bomber the guy they put a collar on this guy that had had explosives in it and told them to go rob a bank oh i remember that turns out he was in on it like he the guy with the collar was in on the crime and it went off it blew up and you know blew his head off well the guy that actually made the device they called them the pizza bomber i was in prison with really ended up dying in

prison um good very strange guy very weird guy uh so that one i wanted to mention that which is very similar to that that type of it's just such a bizarre you know it's i hate to say well thought out it is well thought so overwhelmingly devious like anyone who thinks that much into it and goes to that extent like they should never get out of prison like that's that's and that's pretty scary people to have on walking around on the streets what's even stranger about the pizza one is if he's in on it like you're not putting a working device on my neck is a timer there's a timer it's going to go off and it did go off so that's crazy in it of itself second thing I was going to mention was Have you ever looked at your file that the police have?

Well, this is interesting because I just sent a letter asking for my file. Ask him for and I got a response back that it's going to take about 180 days and come 180 days. They may have to extend it for another 180 days because of lack of resource they need to yeah, go through stuff and see what they can give me and what they can't give me. So, no, I've never seen it. I just realized or I just, it was just brought to my attention not too long ago that I have a right to see it. Yeah, if you know information act. Yeah.

Even in the, even the, that's what I just sent them. Freedom of Public Records Act is for the state. But yeah, you absolutely. When I was incarcerated, I ordered all kinds of people's information in their cases. and you'd be shocked at what you'll get, especially you, you know, in the state, you'll probably get a lot of stuff and you get to see who they interviewed, when they interviewed, what they said. That's what I want.

That's what I really, really want. It may also help spark something for you, things that people have said, although yours is so random. I don't know that that's necessarily possible, but you don't know what's going to happen. I'm always shocked at what breaks the case. you know son of sam just happened he got a parking ticket the whole case was blown open because he got a parking ticket like you know who somebody said let's try and figure out what cars were in that area let's get one of these rookies to look through and see who got a parking ticket

like that one person they've been looking at it for for months and months and months one guy had one decent idea that ended up catching you know berkowitz That's what I keep saying. I keep saying these, a lot of misopportunities in solving these cases and solving mine. And I think it's just going to take that one thing, that one little, my fingerprints, the fingerprints off my car. I mean, I think that if they've run that, even if they've ran it before years ago, run it again. You don't know if he's been fingerprinted for a job or anything, you know. He's been arrested.

Look, people don't just stop. And someone like this with this kind of a personality defect isn't just going to stop. No. He's not going to suddenly say, hey, I got all, I'm all better now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the other thing I was going to say was, you know, it may not even be your case that anything on your case. It just may be, you know, if they ran old DNA from all the other cases, maybe he cut himself during one of these, you know,

knife's blood is slippery people's hands slip maybe cut himself maybe there was a sample taken maybe he's been had his DNA taken since then you know that that happens um there's lots of little tiny things that can eventually catch up to people so you know you don't know but um do you have anything else uh that you want to you want to mention or um I have a granddaughter now because my daughter survived, because I survived, my daughter survived, and I have a granddaughter. So I think that's pretty special. I just don't want these victims to be forgotten. And I don't want these cases to be forgotten.

They're unsolved. No matter what you read on the Internet, these cases are still unsolved. And that's like super important. for people to know. Have you thought about writing a book of some type or? I have. I have thought about it. Even if it's small, like it doesn't have to be three or four hundred pages. It can be a 150 page book. I mean, that's, you know, and the nice thing about something like

that is that's something you can physically give to documentary producers that they actually have, you know, that they have an accounting and they have all the details in chronological order and they can see it and they can decide, hey, this is, this is a thing. Like, we need to, you know, we need to look into this. It can be as simple as a true crime memoir where it's simply from your perspective. Well, I've been with working with cross-faced media and with Dark Valley. That was, that was the intent was, they want to do a documentary on, on all this, the Connecticut River Valley murders. And my case, and all of it.

So right now we're trying to find somebody to buy it. We thought we had somebody, but they were like, well, these are unsolved. There's no ending. It's like, what are you talking about? I mean, who knows? It might be by the time we get done with the documentary, you don't know. You know, right now we're looking, we had quite a few suspects, names come to our attention, and we're really looking into those,

a lot. But, you know, I don't understand why they need a solved ending. They need the cases to be solved in order to do the documentary. Well, that's not a documentary. Documentary is going through and looking at everything and following us with looking at, you know, all kinds of different evidence and suspects and stuff like that and doing interviews. And so. I don't know. We're hoping. It's a lack of imagination on the producers part to say that it has to be answered. I mean, there are documentaries out there. There's plenty out there where there's no conclusive answer.

It's a matter of documenting this entire, you know, this entire process of what happened. And maybe the whole documentary is that, hey, there were so many missed opportunities and this is now, you know, this is an issue that, you know, this is an issue that look at all these opportunities that were missed, and it should have been solved. You know, who knows? That's what we're focusing on. So hopefully, you know, somebody will, hopefully they'll present it to someone that does want to buy it. So we have hopes. In the meantime, you might want to look, you might want to enter the Freedom of Information Act or on the other victims, too.

It'll tell you a lot more than I'm sure you already know. Like what you've gotten so far is you've spoken. with probably a few of the families and maybe you've spoken, and you've read the articles, but you actually get the case files, which are cold. Like, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to say. But New Hampshire is so different. New Hampshire does not like given information at all. They don't even like talking to you.

Like Fred Murray, like Maury's case. Fred Murray, he had to go to court and sue them so he could see his own daughter's information. the whole investigation and all that i mean they don't the hampshire is so different they don't like to um give information whatsoever and uh but but we are i'm fighting for it so we'll see what happens to me i would start the process yep because i started the process with mine so i'd start the process with everybody because you already have a form letter you already wrote your letter. So you already have the letter written. It's a matter of popping in the different names and finding those those different departments. Or is it the same department? As far as I know,

everything is up in the cold case unit up in Concord, New Hampshire. So then it should be pretty easy. And then if they, of course, if they end up saying no and they give you a denial, well, then you can go to court. You know, you can pull the documents for what the other person had filed in his case. You just copy his motions. But once that process starts, most likely, most likely they give it to you. Or then call a local reporter, have the reporter call and say, why aren't you give it under the freedom of public records? Why aren't you typically they go, wait a second now.

Let's let, we're going to give her. Hold on. No, you might get a phone call. And they might say, of course we're going to give it to you. I don't know why we said no. That's crazy. That was John. John's not here anymore.

yeah you'll probably get everything so but at the very least what's great is because i've written a bunch of books true crime books while it was incarcerated what was great is that there are always these little tiny details that that make it interesting and then once you've got all of those files it's great to be able to go to a documentary producer director and be able to say hey like i've done all the research because their first thought is like you don't realize the amount of research that's going to go into this no i do and i have have the research. And I've broken it up and it's written in a 190 page or a 250 page book and I have documents to prove everything. Now they go, oh, wow, this change, that changes a lot. So it's something to think about. I'd like to, I'd like to write a book about my story. You know,

if anything about my case and my story, I don't even know where to begin with that. I'm not, I mean, it seems overwhelming, but to be honest, if you take a day or two to write an outline, just a brief outline on what you want to cover, and then you try and write a page or two pages a day, what happens is six months from now, you turn around and you'll go, I'm done. Like, oh my gosh. By that point, you'll probably have most of the documents in. And you can go through and you can say, hey, on October 32nd, 32nd, there's no on October 22nd, you know, at this time. And you can start putting in those little tiny details and filling it out. And it comes together very easily. The problem is that discipline of writing one or two pages a day, which is no easy feat. Listen, it's hard. But the most important thing really is writing that a solid outline, which takes a day or two.

And it doesn't have to be perfect. It's just kind of like, hey, I want to talk. about my family. I want to do a little four or five pages about where I was raised. I'm going to talk about meeting my husband to be or my future husband. I want to talk about us dating.

I want to talk about like I want to, I want to build the, I want the reader to know who I am a little bit before I did this horrific crime. And then all the things that happened after. So it's definitely, it's something to look into. And it, it's just, it is a discipline. But I mean, I'm sure you can do it.

You guys. Yeah. It's the outline. It's the outline. And then you have something to present. I have put my mind to it. I got to really, because a lot of people have said, you know, you need to write a book. Yeah.

Even if it's a small book, you need to write a book. But think about it. You've been writing that book in your mind. It's done. Yeah. You got that right. You know, and if you say, oh, well, I need an editor. Listen, they're very inexpensive editors.

Very, I mean, for a few hundred bucks, you can get an entire book edited. I did. You can, you really, you know, listen, you figure it out how to hook up stream yard. Okay, like you got on here within a couple of minutes. It took me like 20 minutes to figure out of it working. So I'm sure you can pull it off. Yeah. Well, listen, I wish you the best of luck with the podcast and everything. Thank you so much. Yes. Invisible tears. Listen to it. Find it on your wherever you list to your favorite podcast. We have Facebook. We have Instagram, Twitter, look us up.

We have a website, Invisible-dears.com, and we're all over telling our story, getting our story out. Well, I appreciate you taking the time meeting and being interviewed. Thank you for allowing me to tell my story on here. It was great. It means a lot. Thank you. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. If you like the video, do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this.

Also, leave me a comment in the comment section. And I try and respond to most of the comments. If you're interested in supporting the channel, I have a Patreon. I'll leave that description in the description box. And check me out on all my social medias. I'm going to leave all of Jane's information in the description. box also and I appreciate you guys watching the video and thank you very much and I will see it