Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Downfall Of Girls Gone Wild | Devil Behind the Camera

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

The Downfall Of Girls Gone Wild | Devil Behind the Camera

Paris Hilden says that I was the one who committed to crime against Joe Francis. At this point, he already has 70-something felonies that he's facing. All related to the girls gone wild videotaping, as soon as he comes into his home, I hit the flash grenade. Are you in his house? Yeah, he doesn't know who he's pissed off that has said me. I put him in his car. You know, I've already radioed to my guys that I'm leaving the house with him.

I grew up here in L.A. and the Hancock Park area, or a mile to the west would be Beverly Hills. Having grown up there, went to school with guys that are now big-time actors that were just, you know, teenagers working on their craft at that time. I grew up in the boxing community. So leaving out of that area, the gym I had started going to initially was a Broadway gym, which is in Watts, right in the middle. middle of a war zone, you know. But in the 90s, when I was going in the early 90s, it was like it was a no-go zone as far as gangs coming to the gym or even though that's their neighborhood. It's like you're going into gym, you're a boxer. You're not gang banging. If so, you wouldn't be in the boxing gym. You'd be out here, you know, with us on the streets. So whether that was like

an official word or it just was the flow that happened over time. That's what I experienced. Getting to that, Jim, you know, I'm traversing 15, 20 different neighborhoods on the bus, you know, and later when I get a car, it just, you don't think much of it because a lot of the guys and the gangs, you went to school with them, junior high high school, whatever, you know them. You're not trying to join the gang. So it's okay. just to be, you know, who you are. I've said to folks before, I've never had that, you know, the boogeyman moment from the gangs where, you know,

they're going to pressure you to join, you know, like old PSA commercials about, you know, watch out for the gangs. It's okay for you to be a square, go to school. If you want to join, all the opportunities are available. Black gangs, Hispanic gangs, whatever. I just always gravitated more towards organized crime in a less street level. I had started working early on just doing collections for a bookie. A guy I know, family, friend, connection from another guy.

And, you know, you start off small, you keep going in more. whatever crime you're doing. You look up a year later, your assignments have gotten bigger. You've moved from just collecting to bust in a window because a guy's not paying, you know, send him a message. His window gets busted

at his business. He knows he has to pony up. Another guy who decides not to pay on a bigger bet or, you know, he didn't pay up a loan, you go to the next level. Eventually, you're sitting,

and outside waiting for him with a Louisville slugger. Yeah. So you continue in the game. You can be so successful, you get busted. You are so successful in your criminal enterprising, even at that level, that you draw the attention of the authorities. Congratulations. You've now graduated to Juvie.

You've now graduated to the county jail. How old were you at this time? 14, 15. You know, there was no, I mean, I was not running the crew or whatever. I'm one of 10, 15 different guys that the book he's got, you know, they can call up to these little poot butt assignments or whatever. But in that time of being around, you're going to always come across a bigger opportunity. No different if I just completely stuck to the education route.

getting A's. I'm at school. I'm in the debate club or whatever. Those opportunities will present themselves. Right. So if you, me haven't sought out the criminal space, the opportunities presented themselves. I rose to the occasion and went to the next level, went to the next level. And eventually I got incarcerated in juvie. So, you know, my last year or two of high school was spending juvie and um you know coming out of juvie uh i just went right back into the same flow and that's when i got introduced to another level of of um uh the the booky lone shark space and my mentor who i had worked under at that time uh this guy pluggy zycheck uh he plugged me in with his old school connections, uh, which extended to guys from New York.

And that's when I first started working under working with, working under, uh, Maddie the Horace, I know. He's, he, his crime goes back to the 60s in New York. You know, he was under boss of the, uh, of a Genevay's family at one point, um, you know, in the, the show, the Deuce, they profiled his story in the late 60s, you know, he financed a bunch of the gay bars, you know, gay guys didn't have a place they can go. Some didn't want to be outed. A lot of folks maybe not wanting them in their club with their lifestyle. So he financed a lot of it in, you know, the Lower East Side, Times Square area and made cash, you know. He didn't care about a lifestyle. He just saw an opportunity to make cash. You know, he had his hands in the

pornography space. So, you know, he was multi-facic. Nitch markets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Markets that some guys didn't want to be a part of, but he's like, there's a buck to be made. That's that. The money spends. So me getting a connection to him and some of his guys, I could call up, go to a meeting and the assignment is, you know, hey, can you go pick this up in Michigan? Can you go pick this up down in Atlanta? These are my connections. These are my crimes. Whatever's going on.

They just, they knew that I could be trusted from the guy. Picking up. You're picking up cash? You're picking up. Picking up cash, delivering messages because maybe some of their direct guys. I'm not Italian. So clearly I'm able to pass by certain things where they are already being watched or, you know, it looks like the heat is on. So sitting a face like mine down to one of their assets picking up cash delivery messages, dropping off stuff.

And then also knowing that if if shit got crazy that I could handle it because they've already known, you know, my profile. trust it I'm not about to pick up the cash and run off to Mexico every dollar always got to where it was supposed to go to and you're doing that you know an assignment will come my way because it's out here in L.A. or it's in Vegas or Orange County of San Diego hey let's throw the key at this assignment no no obligation on my part to take it because I'm not Italian I'm not under their wing

They're farming out work They could farm it out to anyone else But for me By that point I had a trust level So how old are you at that point I'm in 20, 21, 22 Okay

And money's good Works coming I'm working legitimate gigs I'm in college I'm moving around I got a buddy at that point Who already started An online gaming site

You know this is in the year when online gaming was completely illegal, all based out of Costa Rica. In the early 90s, he had went down to Costa Rica and learned the whole system, you know, or mid-90s, rather. So when he started his own outfit, it was a matter of like, you know,

this is the Wow, Wow, West still. Nothing like it is today where, you know, it's like pretty common to place a bed on an online site. But this is in the day when it was, you know, illegal. So you're tiptoeing around which jurisdiction you're in and, you know, how exposed you are, how much you can actually advertise. Having it, I have a long. Sorry, I have a quick question. So when they're telling you, hey, go pick up this, go do this, like, are you thinking like, oh, this isn't a big deal?

This is my buddy so-and-so? Or are you realizing like, hey, this is? this is serious this is a are you like how are you you know like like it's funny because you know some people are like like listen like this is this is serious serious shit like i could get in a lot of trouble and they take it super seriously and other people are like oh that's my buddy tommy he just wants me to swing by and pick up this and that's it's not a big and somebody might be say to you you know hey this is serious what if this happens oh that's not going to happen like you know are you you do you seem to how serious are you taking this is this like it's not

that big of a deal? Or you think, no, no, I know it's a big deal. I know. I know it's a high priority situation. Every situation is high priority. There is nothing to be taken lightly. You know, you're given the rules of the road. You're given the layout what it all entails. Yeah, you know, it could go bad. It could go bad, yeah. But, you know, a lot of guys, Italian guys, especially from that are under Maddie, the horse's

thumb. They're being watched. They may be watched. They may be on something else. So a lot of the stuff that was being thrown my way through my guy, Puggy, was you know, it wasn't time sensitive like, hey, you got to be there at five minutes. It was laid out very clear

ahead of time. And me being tossed the job was because, once again, I was an Italian. I was trusted, you know, as time went on and never made the mistake. You know, it was, a lot of it was a matter of it's on your timetable. But, you know, this is what needs to be done. Whatever that this is, here's how you go about it. You do it one or two times, three times, four times.

They're like, okay, the kid can be trusted, you know. throw another assignment. Like I said, you get tossed. You know, they got a guy down in Orange County who, you know, has taken out some lungs and maybe he's paying one or two, three times to keep it looking like he's going to be good. And now he's, now he's not answering his calls. All right, somebody has to go visit that guy. Right. Yeah. So being tossed an assignment like that and, you know, there's a couple hundred grand on the line. What you retrieve, you get a piece of it, you know. All right, now I put together a crew. Orange County's, you know, an hour drive from L.A.

will be there before night. Maybe we're posting up for about, you know, two days waiting for this guy to show up. But, you know, what, that situation there turns quickly from a lone shark situation into extortion and possibly kidnapped. Right. You know, if the guy that owes the money decides not to pay up you know you make a threat all right now you have extortion possibly a terrorist threat charge

if you if you crack the guy you got an assault charge okay if I snatch them toss them in the okay now you got a kidnapping charge so it's like the situation seemed simple enough to start with but if it goes sideways which most of the time

it does you're now looking at kidnapping robbery extortion Your problems are, you know, are taken to the extreme in a quick second. And, you know, and it all starts off of a guy who decides he doesn't want to pay what he righteously owes. Right. You know, he didn't go to the bank and get a proper loan. He went to the streets and, you know, got some money, agreed to the VIG.

And now, for whatever reason, maybe he legitimately can't pay because the business is going upside down at that point you know what is his business you know maybe he owns a furniture store all right well how much does he owe what does that he look like in um in the supply that he has on hand you know are we going to take all of the flat screen televisions to try to equal up to all the furniture all right now we have to offload all that stuff one one of the craziest pieces I had come across was a guy was a wholesaler of meat coats. It doesn't get that coat in L.A. in Southern California, but he couldn't pay. Not that he wouldn't pay, it's just he could folks run into very hard times, which is why he got the loan

to start with. But we now have a box truck full of sable mint coats. So we now have a box truck full of sable mink coats. So we now have to offload these to, you know, make to make, make, make right on what he owed. Uh, there's no, there was never a boring, boring day. There was never a dull moment because moments like that come up all the time. Okay. All right.

So you're in your 20s at this point. You're getting these assignments. Did you, do you end up getting, do you end up graduating school? Where were you going to college? I started at junior college of Ventura County that I eventually went over to Germany. I mean, I traveled a lot. I got around a lot. Crime was just a matter of what comes up and I'm on it.

How intricate, how complex is the crime itself. You know, it's in a 12-month calendar, maybe two, three big things. will have happened but you realize also all the stuff that happens throughout the week it's all it's all crime you know it's right the pickup the drop off taking the bed you know it's you're in violation of the wire act when you you know take a call on a take a bet over the phone lines you place a bet online you uh you're gonna go pick up a simple conversation you know you you owe a couple grand i'm here to pick it up all right that's an extortion charge so crime was happening every day to some extent bigger items came up at different times and by that point i knew enough guys

uh bloods cribs Hispanic gang members that i would farm out a lot of work because uh i knew those these guys from school i knew these guys from having been in juvie so i had i had my own net of guys that you know were on the streets every every day they're already you know caught up in the gang war so you know they don't have a problem with you know going to that extreme if it calls for it granted i'm the one responsible for them if i bring them on a situation but you know so at that point i got my own assets that i could call up and bring a situation too So, you know, that's what crime is. You build relationships just like you would in the legitimate space.

I'm in the club scene in L.A. I mean, had been since I was a kid, I grew up in L.A., so going to the clubs was, you know, as time goes on, you, you know, you know the promoters, you know the owners, you've known them for years. You're from there. Who do you come across in that club scene? Everyone you see them TMZ now, you know, like this celebrity. Okay, well, I knew him like 10 years ago when he was like a starving artist or whatever. So I was like, oh, great, he's on a billboard now. It was not a big thing.

You know, growing up in L.A., I can finally remember, you know, walking the streets of Hollywood or walking, you know, to the movie theater. and there's a film set going on. You know, that was an everyday occurrence, so it was no big deal to see a celebrity. Being in the gym environment, I grew up in the gyms with Mickey Rourke. So it's like when he was at the height of fame, you know,

tough guy status. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's just Mickey. We're going to, you know, go a couple rounds in the sparring or whatever. Right. Just keep rolling with it. It's no big deal. uh buddy baltazar getty we were in the same boxing crew you know um for years i don't know how many times we've uh you know getting ready for competition and just

heating life because we're at lunch with other buddies and we can't eat because we're trying to make weight so uh my buddy's scotty con i mean hey you got some time today let's get some rounds it. This is, you know, when he's just popping as an actor, then he gets Ocean's 11, and it's like, oh, shit, that's Scotty up on the billboard. Just another day being in L.A., you know, you keep going, oh, they got Ocean's 11 part two coming out. Oh, shit, Scotty's on the billboard again. Great. I'm going to kick his ass it in the boxing gym, though. So that's L.A. you know if if if if if if if i grew up in pennsylvania and uh stiltown i would imagine that you know the guy who got stuck in a mine oh shit that's my buddy johnny right johnny okay

um you know oh but for me it was oh shit scottie's on uh in the next ocean's 11 movie right all right good for him so what happened so you're you're in the the club scene hanging out with people I mean what's you know what kind of what happens next

what's going on after that well first of all why did you go to Germany did you go to school in Germany I heard you say Germany yeah yeah I traveled a lot when I was in

when I was 18 I started working for TWA the old airline yeah and as an employee you would get discounted air tickets, like 10%. You'd get these passes and you could, you know. So I'd schedule my school and my word schedule to where I can get five, six days off,

you know, miss a class here or there. But I'd be gone. And TWA had great routes, you know, JFK France, JFK lending down in Mexico. So anytime I can get a couple of days off, change a couple shifts, move this around. I'm only paying like, you know, for a $1,200 fight, I'm paying $120 and I'm in Paris, you know, so there couldn't have been a better job for a young guy working for the airlines where you're able to travel. You know, this is all pre-9-11. So if the flight was booked, no big deal. I'm an employee. I get to sit up where the pilots are at, you know. Right. So, you know, and then

this is in the time also where, you know, I can. could just have, if you and I work together, you worked in the office with me, I could just, I can get free flights by having you call from like the corporate office saying, hey, we got an employee who has to take this paperwork. Let's say if I'm going to L.A., New York, he needs to get to New York, you know, the flights book, but you're calling from corporate. They're not going to question it. I'm on a flight for free. So I just, I bounced around a lot. I traveled a lot whenever I could. I take whatever vacation I could, you know, come back work like a dog making some decent money as well but it was a it was a great opportunity to see the

world so i ended up in germany you know you always it's always come down to chasing a girl in some kind of fashion so uh it was nice and i checked into school over there for a little while came in and out uh i just bounced around a lot um a lot of travels so just bouncing around and enjoying uh the ability to move around I had some, a lot of disposable cash from different gigs, different assignments, legal, you know, legal and legal. Dabbled in the online space mid to late 90s when, you know, companies were going public and, you know, if you get in at the right time, you may make a little nice profit, take it to the next venture. I'd have some illegal cash from work in the streets, put that in the stock market, see if you can flip it and make a profit. There was no shortage of opportunities mid to late 90s.

The online space was emerging and opportunities were there. If you had a little extra cash to put in, you may make a little mint. made some money on Beanie Babies You know Pets.com Before they went belly up Yeah

It probably would have made more Had I taken a bigger risk But I was just Jumping in and out Of different ventures But the one Consistent was The crime

Right You know Involvement in crime There was a consistency there And just like I said earlier where you keep going you get to the next level

more trust is thrown your way and you rise to the occasion whatever it may be discretion you know if situation calls for it hopefully it's not something that you know it's in the public's eye

opportunity meeting availability Was he willingness? Were you thinking at that time? Like, I mean, did you have an end goal? Were you thinking you're just going to kind of be a hustler the rest of your life? Or do you have a goal like, hey, at some point I want to become, I don't know, a mailman or a cop or a, or a like, you know, hey, I want to be get a, I want to be a CPA someday. Like, was there a goal in mind or was like you're just kind of hustling until something?

something came along. No, I mean, having grown up in L.A., buddies you grew up with that are at different levels of the entertainment space, you know, some that are the actors, some that are behind the scenes producing film. The goal was, you know, you got an out date. Some guys don't.

Some guys are just, this is what I know. I'm going to write it until the wheels fall off. My number, you know, whether it was a million, two million or whatever, or whether it was just a time frame, in the next two years, I anticipate I'll be at this level, whatever that number is. And from that point, I get to step aside, you know. Some guys make that mistake stepping away from the daily. And once you step away, don't try to go back in, you know, little pieces of the game. maybe have changed conversations you would have had with certain guys that you haven't seen in a while.

Like, I'm going to tread lightly because I don't know where this guy's been. You know, you've heard enough stories where guys got in pops. All of a sudden he disappears. He pops back up. And now he's walking a little reckless. It's like, where's this conversation coming from? Right. So, you know, being more aware of all of the trappings that just come with being in crime.

knowing that simple conversation, what you look at as simple conversation could have you on a tail end of a conspiracy, those things start weighing on you. So I'm looking at, you know, well, you start seeing people get pop too. Every, periodically you hear about. You're seeing enough. Yeah, yeah. Do you hear Jimmy, Pauley, and these other 15 guys were indicted and they all got raided and they're all, you know, they were all. Yeah. So you, you start becoming a little bit more risk averse and you're looking at all right I'm I'm at this level financially I'm comfortable enough to step aside or I'm comfortable enough to open a bar put some money over here that way it's still running and you know if I am still going to be

involved in crime I could be more selective in what I involve myself in maybe I'm a one level removed or two levels removed because I have enough guys that I can farm work out to. That becomes the thinking as you're in crime for several years and you've built up enough of a network reputation-wise. My goal was going full-time into the film world. I already had a couple of projects that I was looking to pursue. Me having my own personal out, you know, expiration date for being involved in crime. In what capacity? As a producer, a director, you wanted to write screenplays, you, you know, you want to be

an, you know, like, in what capacity in the, you know, film industry did you want to work? Yeah, as initially producer, because, so a friend of mine who had started his online gaming company late 90s, me having already been involved in the bookmaking operations, the old school style loan sharking. When I joined forces with him, you know, I'm now in the online space, but I still have, you know, the street level going on. So, you know, we were doing all kinds of promotions to get the online name out there. You know, And having grown up in boxing, having grown up in the gambling space, and having known all of these guys at these different online sites, Golden Palace.com, SBG, you know, these are companies that were early to the game. You know, I was hooking up the promotions with professional fighters who were fighting on Showtime and HBO at the time doing the fake tattoos on their back.

You know, you probably remember the biggest one was Bernard Hopkins at golden palace.com on his back for a fight. A lot of fighters were trying to, they were, networks and promoters were trying to push them out because networks and promoters weren't getting a piece of that advertising dollar. You know, you pay a fighter 30 grand to put this fake tattoo on his back for the night. His fight is being held on Showtime. There's going to be a million eyeballs, you know. the possibility of the traffic being driven to that.com, you know, was, it was proven to be a good success. So, I mean, I'm, I'm working angles like that, had known enough fighters, knowing enough guys at different online gaming sites. That was one venture, you know, another venture is, you know, having enough guys I know in the club scene.

you know, we would rent out a shale of a NASCAR and how NASCAR have all the advertisement on it. We'd slap the dot-com name on the shale of this NASCAR, have it outside the club. Two, three thousand people are coming to that club today. It's on Sunset Boulevard. There's going to be thousands of people. It's a Friday night, so folks are cruising Sunset Boulevard. They see this NASCAR with the dot-com name, the mobile advertising. constantly

involved in on the legal side schemes like that to promote the shit out of the company and it was fun I mean it was no different all of the planning that went into planning a crime now was going into planning

these these promos you know different girls around town you know that are at whatever level as models you know getting them and this is all pre-major social media. You know, my space isn't even out at this point.

So it really is, whoever the gatekeepers have said, okay, she's a legit model. This wasn't just because the girl got 5,000 likes on her photo, you know, she had to be a legit model to be looked at as someone would care to see what she's promoting, you know, throwing up some billboards,

hiring taggers who are already spray painting walls to just go gorilla and throw up stickers of your dot com all around town on buses free advertisement right there you know so um yeah and as you look up as the years goes on you you may not think about it you didn't sit i didn't sit around and write out a list of folks that I know that are celebrities or that are have become renowned in some way in the entertainment space, but you're constantly mingling with folks that are on on billboards, folks that are in the magazines. This is Hollywood.

That's just the nature of being in the entertainment capital of the world, you know, right. so the um the the what's the guy the girls gone wild guy Joe Francis sorry yeah um so I mean I remember you know I remember girls gone wild you know they had the videos remember like the VA they had the tapes they had the I remember seeing the commercials they had the infomercials I actually had a broker a female broker that works for me a mortgage broker that had actually been on one of those, you know, one of the, you know, when she was, whatever, 19 years old, something like that. And he, he had made a bunch of money, uh, doing that. What, what was,

that was about the same time, right? Like, he's making bank. Yeah. He's making the, yeah. It's videos and all the commercials. You start seeing them early, late, late 99, early 2000. and he's everywhere, you know. And from the outside, it looks like, yo, he's caught lightning in the bottle. Right. For the time he did, you know. The places he was at, these spring break locations, these girls are already going to be in the wet t-shirt competitions and this and that. Them getting a trucker hat for showing their boobs or shirt that says,

going, wow, was like the extra pin for them. Probably most of them never thought much of it because they were already letting loose their own spring break, you know? Yeah. So yeah, he's not, that guy, Joe Francis wasn't from L.A., but once he started making some good cash, you know, he sets up shopping L.A.,

and he's on the party scene as well. So I came across them all the time. I knew enough folks that knew them. every party there's always the after party and a guy like him who's trying to buy his way into the party scene into the club scene by that point he has a nice big house up in Bel Air so yeah after party at my house

you're now at his house at an after party amongst whomever else decided to show up that was already the cool kids at the club right So it wasn't a big stretch to be able to be around him once you're already in the scene. Yeah, he already had started to get a bad reputation as been a sleazeball. But one thing, yeah, one thing about celebrities, though, is that most folks wouldn't turn away from him because he's the one buying all the liquor trying to buy his way it. Of course, he's going to have the Coke because he's trying to ingratiate himself into there.

Of course, he's going to host the parties because he's trying to get everyone around. So most celebrities will look sideways. Like, how many celebrities were attached to Weinstein? I was just going to say, Harvey Weinstein. They all want to hear the rumors, they this, but it's rich. He's powerful. They all want to be in a film of his. They all want him to produce a film.

of theirs so it's like hey whatever i heard uh blinders on you know yeah um well with him that is with with with wincing there was the extra incentive of the fact that you know he was powerful and he could he could crush you too he could also make it very difficult for you to work right so you know but yeah yeah it's um double-edged sword but you know you look up in 10 years have gone by and it's like now one of the rumors is it's definitive this this it happened. Yeah. And it's like, oh, man.

But I think leading it up to about where at the middle part of O3 is when my world and Joe Francis world really collided. Right. I had gotten called to a meeting. And, you know, at the meeting, I'm given a rundown of what transpired or rather what this girl, 18 year old girl who was down in Mexico with a couple of her friends, the story she had told her father. And the story was that, you know, they're down there partying. And they meet Joe Francis. They voluntarily party with them, smoke some joints, alcohol, whatever else. All above

board, it's all good. They go back to his place, partying with them. And the girl says, when she woke up in the morning. She knew she was no longer a virgin. Okay. So she agrees that all of her partying with him was all good, voluntarily left with him, but she did not consent to sex. So is she thinking, a Rufi? Is that what she's thinking? Yeah. She's like, you know, can't, can't say what happened in these hours that she was, you know, mentally not there. but you know waking up and she's questioning him and he's you know pretending like oh you know we talked about this we said we're going to do this we say we're going to do that yo you came to my place right he knows that she didn't consent to sex so she she can't do much she says you know she tries

to talk with the authorities down in Mexico she goes no it goes nowhere yeah I'm sure they were a huge help. Yeah, yeah. She can't do anything here in the States because it's not, it was a U.S. jurisdiction. So she tells her dad, her dad happens to be connected with Maddie the horse, his guys. That's when I get called to the, to a meeting. Okay. Now, easily they could send a crew to whack him. They could easily hire someone to take them out. But the father, his, position was he wanted Joe Francis to suffer in the way that his daughter suffered. You know, she's having nightmares. She's, you know, afraid to go out. She's afraid of men because she was just took an advantage of. So the father's position was, I want to see, I want this guy going forward

every time he goes home to be afraid of what might be on the other side of the door. So, you know, my only question is where, you know, like, you want him physically. jacked up. I really just want him afraid of the phone ringing. He hears the phone ring and he's in fear. All right, my only

other question is, is there a time limit on this? No. So, I'm sitting with that information. I doubt if the girl was lying. Pretty intricate, pretty detailed on her part as to what happened. But I think if she was lying, too, she would have probably given a more clear account of what happened.

It would have been very clear. And I said, she's saying, look, I don't 100% recall what happened. Like, I definitely, like, I think I was drugged. I only know that this is, I'm definitely not intact anymore. Yeah. And this girl is not, and this girl was not from a, yeah, she's not. not from L.A. nor was she trying to be a motto and actress or anything. Their worlds just happened to meet down in Mexico. Out of all names, she pulls this name out of the, out of the

hat. It wasn't, you know, by haphazard. There was no ax to grind on her part against him. Their world really don't exist, never come in contact with each other. Right. It just so happened that I'm associated with the guys that her father was associated with. Yeah. Her father's not a tough guy. He's not a, he's not in the streets. He just happens to know guys. You know, those guys knowing that I'm in L.A., that I know L.A., I know the party scene, probably I will know Joe Francis.

So when I brought the information, like, of course I know the guy. You know, he's gambled with me before, you know, he's not a great, gambler so I appreciate his losses so that's when I started you know putting together a plan of the best way to go about exacting revenge in the way that that where this guy would be afraid of what's on the other side of the door going forward um they didn't want them beaten down they didn't want them shot or anything or because they didn't need me for that they could call up any number of guys that were already on the payroll that or that are just that's what they do that they're the soldiers in that way so we come to the last part of

2003 and a good friend of mine at the time who was dating joe francis she was a model chick aaron noz she's um at that time she had just been in playboy she's frederick's a hollywood girl her poster billboards were all around town they were dating and i had just got back to l.A and i get a call from a mutual friend of ours that Aaron and our our mutual friend lived in the same building and she calls me and says yo you got to come over something just happened with Aaron I get there and Aaron is like white as a ghost um she's no soft chick You know, she can hold her on. And she tells me the story.

She's dating Joe Francis at this time. And she's telling me the story that she's going to go drop him off. This is like two days before Christmas, actually. She's dropping him off Christmas present because they're going to be with their respective families on Christmas. And she says he must have been coked up or something because when he gets drugged up, he's turned into another person and he started grabbing at her and she barely broke free

and got out of the house now their boyfriend girlfriend it's like why are you why are you trying to you know why are you getting aggressive with her or now she believed attempting to rape her right you guys are already

in a sexual relationship so that that right there if I was if I was sitting on the fence on making a move on hill seeing that and I got to her like you know

about two hours after it happened so it's fresh in my mind now what she had just went through so that further informed my decision making into into what I eventually would do okay

so okay so what what so were you you were obviously being paid for this like was a number thrown out like no payments come in many forms and this is a favor for this is a favor for this is a favor for the family so to speak you know um favors come in many forms so I wasn't I wasn't worried about a number Okay. The father would make due, he would make right. I'm sure if I had said to him, said to him two million dollars, and if he had it, he'd pay it because of what his daughter had just went through. Right. So that wasn't, that wasn't the motivation, the money. It was about this guy is, especially after the situation that Aaron relays to me, you know, less than two hours from it happening.

this guy he needs to be made to he needs to be made to fear the way he's making these girls fear and Aaron this other girl they weren't the first ones you know I'm in LA I'm in the party scene you're you're constantly hearing

you know he was going to be an investor in a new club open up the investors gave him his money back because pre-opening he's already grabbing the hostess's ass you know he's already going off crazy on girls uh he was he was a loose cannon right physically he's not a threat to a guy but to a girl yeah he is uh and and the the stories around town where once he gets juiced up on whatever drugs he definitely goes into a a whole other space so you know whatever may exist just on him being sober is one

But once he has some alcohol and whatever drugs in his system, then he's on a whole other level. So are at this point, are you starting to kind of formulate a plan? Like, what is that plan? What is your? Yeah. At this point, now we're into early January 2004. I already got the breakdown of what happened, what the girl says happened in Mexico. Other things around town. things I'm hearing and then a day or two before Christmas errand situation so yeah I've already had some

gotten some eyes on him on Joe Francis locking in his schedule exactly what I'm going to do it's coming together it all depends on where it's going to happen but being at the father's position was if he is doesn't

It's one thing if he was to get Jacked up by a couple of guys Like he's coming out of the club And some guys snatch him there It's a random crime In the streets If someone snatches you in your home What this might be really personal here

You know Right So that's when I decided Okay I'm gonna grab him at his home And the plan was pretty straightforward I knew when he was gonna be going down in Mexico. He was building his villa down in Mexico. So he's going back and forth. He's going back and forth there are a lot. But I also know that regardless, like, you know, he could have

court the next day, but he still wants to be out at the club the night before because that night is the happening night for that particular club. He can't resist being out on the town. One other thing. At this point, he already has, like, 70-something felonies that he's facing in Florida, all related to the girls going while videotaping. I think Panama City, Florida, he was arrested down there. And he has a lot going on in the criminal world that he has to resolve. And what are those? They were related to some of the girls were underage.

Some of the girls said that they didn't sign off. on convention their face some some of the girls were saying they had gotten

drugs some were saying he was charged with like prostitution some of the girls that were underage

you know there's these gray areas in the law that he crossed over you know he went from

being just like a documentitarian into a porn front producer right

and once you step into that realm of porn producing you have all kinds of laws and procedures that you have to follow and it's a tricky space you know if there's alcohol involved or drugs involved you know did this person really consent that this person really consent with a clear mind so he had had had I think he had gotten like 70 something charges he had bailed out so he has a lot going on in his world but yet he's still trying to be out on the party scene.

So I'm going to take advantage of him being off-kilter. So the night that I had chosen, you know, I got guys at the club watching him, and I got a couple of guys on the route. Where he lives in Bel Air, he's, you know, a good, once you come off of sunset, you're a good five to 10-minute drive to get to his home through the whiny roads.

But the good part is that he, can only enter through East Gates of Bel Air or West Gates of Bel Air so if I have eyes right there I know that he's coming up and I got five to ten minutes everything plays out just how I had laid it out planned it out

I know he's at the club I know he's partying and I have one guy at the club and I want to get him to be a little coked up in the event something goes wrong which you know every every great plan there's always that possibility right but in the event that he was injured or whatever happens that let's say if he did go to the hospital to be checked

out and they find drugs in his system you know you're thinking about all the possible ways to mitigate uh if if he has drugs in his system it's like anything he's saying any statement he's making it has to be viewed you know on a on shaky grounds because he's high right up so what he's already going to do at the clubs would anyone that's at the club would see him doing a normal night anyway it's no big deal you know offer him some coke see if he takes a bump just adding another layer of contingency planning you know right so by By the time he makes it back to the house and I've already been made aware of his travel from the club

coming into Bel Air as soon as he comes into his home, I hit the flash grenade just to stun him, you know, just to stun him. And then, you know, that buys me three seconds, four seconds to be able to hop on him and tie him down. Are you in his house?

Yeah, I was already, The idea of made access, had got access to his house. No, there's no alarm. I had already bypassed the alarm. I had, I gotten the cold. And this is coming back many weeks back where, you know, making connections with certain folks that would know all this information. That's another part of just being from L.A.

And having made these connections with different folks over the years. but throwing the flash grenade screaming out to him freeze police that buys me a couple of seconds to hop on them you know right most folks hear freeze police he's not out every day and his thoughts committing crimes so if he's here and freeze police he's thinking it's really the cops by the time that he realizes that it's not the cops I already have them tied right you know he's

my captive at that point and that's exactly how he played out i i tossed the black sack over his head to to further have him in the the mind space of just what the hell is going on you know he doesn't have vision right now because he's has a black sack over his head he's he's he's my captive he's his hands are tied behind his back so he you know i take him throughout the house wherever I want him to go and that's and I started doing that I started walking him up and downstairs into different rooms just to further disorient him having him he knows he's in his home but just to have him completely feeling like he has no control over over his own body in his own home having him afraid of what the fuck's going to happen next you know right when he

thinks, okay, I've been a captive for 10, 15, 20 minutes. Nothing's happened. Maybe I'm going to be all right. That's when I've already taken him back up to his bedroom. And when I removed the sack from his, from covering his face, that's when he sees the video camera that I had set up. But he knows you, right? He's seen you before. Oh, we've, we've, we've had much engagement, but I'm not speaking to him at this point. You know, initial freeze get out screaming yeah yeah he's not going to be able to place a voice so the only time i did speak to him very soft whisper and he's he is in no mind space to be wondering who's whispering voice you know how do i attach this to anyone that i might know he doesn't know

what's going on uh what another interesting thing that he had going on in his own life is that he had just had a a major spat with this guy, Muhammad Hadid, the father of Gigi and Bella Hadid. Muhammad Hadid is a developer, and he was building

Joe Francis Villa down in Mexico. So they had a spat in their business dealings and the day before I committed this cross. I'm against Joe Francis, he had just went to Muhammad's business office and went crazy demanding all of his, his architectural renderings back.

So the cops were called on Joe Francis for, you know, causing his major disturbance. So he doesn't know if it has to do with this or. So the whole time that I have him as a captive, he's actually saying to me, did Muhammad send you? Yeah. I'm not going to confirm or deny anything to him. let him he doesn't know who he's pissed off that has said me that's how much that's how much of a fuck-up he is right that he has enough guys that he's done wrong to

that possibly could have been the ones that said me and I doubt if I would have said which was not the assignment I doubt if I would have said this is because you did this to this girl in Mexico it's quite possible that he would have been lost on which girl right there are several girls in Mexico that fit that situation fits with so but that wasn't that wasn't requested so it would have went it wouldn't went anywhere anyway I wanted to you know instill that fear into him so at that's at this point it became I want to do to him what he does to these girls with the video filming have him say some of him say some some demeaning things on film and that's how it played out you know i i did it in the same

fashion that he does with the girls where they have their identification he has them say a line you know my name is becky whatever whatever whatever so i had him do the same kind of skit you know joe francis i'm a boy gone wild and i and i like it up the ass okay see if that makes him think even more what the fuck's going to happen next you know

and it it played out exactly how how I had laid it out there was no need to stick around any longer I've already I've already gotten across to him

that he's made some major mistakes and he's a vulnerable vulnerable yeah Yeah, now I put him in his car, and I, you know, I've already radioed to my guys that were, I'm leaving the house with him, drove him down sunset, down to sunset, crossing over Sunset Boulevard, and I left him, left him in his car, and I get in mine, and we take off. He eventually works himself out of the zip ties, and he runs to the Bel Air security gate. And, you know, he's begging for help. The security person in the gate is, they actually thought he was like some homeless crazed guy.

They didn't want to, they didn't want to help him. So they call the cops. The cops get there. The cops run, hear his story. They race up to his home. And they actually didn't believe there was a crime. Like, maybe he is high because, you know, windows broken. There are no doors, Jimmy.

There's no sign of force entry. all we have is this guy sweating down at on sunset talking about he was this story to them this sounds crazy there's this didn't happen there's no there's no camera there's no videotape there's no this is you know early days so there wasn't like there are cameras set up all throughout the route yes there are cameras on that cul-de-sac that he lives on the private security cameras of those homes but i knew where they were positioned and nothing could be seen. Well, I meant when the cops got there and, hey, there was a, this guy set up a tripod in my, in my room.

Well, there's no tripod set up. There's no camera there. There's no, there's no videotape that they can see. There's no, like, it could have been him flipping out on PCP or something and running down the hill. Like they, or driving a car and you just don't want that. Yeah, to them it looked like he made this story of. Right. There is nothing that points to what your, the story you're telling us, nothing physically

at this scene points to that. His shirt is not ruffled. He doesn't have any scars on him. He's just a sweaty dude, possibly high. And, you know, having read the reports, they wanted to take him to the hospital. They wanted to test his blood. They wanted to do the whole checkup on him. But he refused.

I would imagine because he was just partying at the club. well he does have a pair of zip ties yeah but he doesn't he when he gets to this space his hands aren't tied one of them he's worked himself out of it so they're looking at it like that's the doesn't really look right right that's the only physical evidence that they have is there is a pair of zip ties a pair of zip ties that is on one of the hands yes okay that's that's all they got. That's all they've got at that time. For me to further the fear offensive, this is on a Monday, a couple days go by, and I finally placed a call to him, knowing that, like, the guy can't keep a secret, so he's already told enough folks around town what happened to him. So I already know

that the cops are waiting for phone calls he's already made so he allows the cops when in his presence to tap his home phone uh so i just placed a couple calls just to fuck with them to keep him one so they stuck around for about two three days and then you know he tells them i guess the guy's not going to call back anymore but i've already you know thrown a couple of lines out there to keep them off kilter uh and they're only there from certain hours. So for the entire year, I'd either place a call from a phone booth no matter where I'm at, Arizona, if I was in New York, wherever, placing a phone call, there'd be times where I'd see him, or I'd know that he was out at the clubs, or I'd know that he was in Florida

at a certain place or whatever, and I'd give him a call three, four in the morning. What are you saying to him? when I'm just nonstop fucking with them like yo I know you were uh hey when you were in Tampa yesterday uh and you were having lunch at such and such place you know you get this phone call at four in the morning and the guy is just for a whole year he's just like oh man this shit never ends you know no matter where I'm at this guy seems to know so much about me and he doesn't know how it the girl that you knew that was dating him. Is she still dating him?

No. That night was the end of their relationship. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely the end of their relationship. If it wasn't already on its way out the door, that definitely sealed the deal. Yeah, so that whole year goes by. And in that year, I'm like, I'm now done with crime because I'm making that transition. to producing films. I feel like you're still in crime. Well, no.

We're still making phone calls. No, no. The other crimes. The other crime, the everyday crime, this right here is, and this is just a hobby at this point. This is just, this is like now fun to watch him.

And then, you know, a lot of folks in town are not knowing who's who and some folks, he would tell whatever to somewhat. That word would get back just in the, you know, in the club scene conversation. And you, I'd overhear something. So there was a little bit of pleasure in knowing that he was running up the walls. Exactly what the dad wanted to happen was happening.

Right. He had hired security, not, you know, 24-hour security at his home. He didn't go out without security. So he's clearly shucking up, you know. and you know it interrupted his his flow his life the ease by which he ran around town which is what what the what the job was so the problem for me is that someone has a conversation or rather Paris Hilden says that someone had a conversation with her someone that I know that knew about the crime tells her that I was the one who committed

the crime against Joe Francis. Okay. This conversation, she says, happened. We were at her sister's birthday party in Las Vegas. So when she gets back to L.A., this is now October 2004, nearly 10 months after the crime. She sees Joe Francis and she tells him, hey, it was Riley who did that to you. Why? just wondering why like just yeah there's the in the know yeah there's a couple of theories i'll go

into it in a sec but paris hilden telling um joe francis that he calls the detectives who at this point they have a code case he calls them and and three ways to her having her retail what she had just told to him, and that's the first time they ever hear my name attached to the crime. So that's when they started looking into who I am. Why would she do it? You know, her sister's home was burglarized in September of 2004. And in that burglary, there was jewelry, there was jewelry, purses, all kind of personal

things and videotapes that were stolen. Now, the sex video of her and Rick Solomon had already been released. So these videos, I know a lot of guys in L.A., you know, it's not too hard to get in contact with someone or someone to know that I know these other people. So I had got called to a buddy of mine's office and this crew of rushing young guys a burglary crew they were the ones that burglarize the sister's home

so they had all these items and they're like you know we want to dump them off we want to sell them my interest was in those videotapes so I'm like you know I'll buy those from you guys you know

sight unseen there's going to be something on there and sure enough there was so so that would that That plays into why would Paris tell Joe this she thought that

if I get arrested then those videotapes won't come out or maybe I don't have them any longer because I had gotten her back the originals. She doesn't know if I had copies or not. So these are videotapes. What was on the videotapes?

There was a you know, a lot of, like, light-sex things with her and other boyfriends. The most interesting one was Paris and this, this, Brandon Davis, good buddy of hers, character I had known for years. They were out at the club's party, and they see a street vendor outside the club. This is two, three in the morning. it's a black it's a black guy and they're they're joking around with him and they have their video camera going so when they get a good distance away from him

they're joking with each other and they say he's fucking niggers right uh they say she says it and it makes it clear that she you know this is a word that she uses very uh freely in her private life so I wanted to get her attention so I knew this reporter from the news of the world so I had shown her a clip of the video

and she reported on it and immediately Paris you know gets a hold of me hey you know I'm I thank you for getting that video back for me blah blah you know I'm going to send

over something hey whatever I was just joking and you know she's trying to make her apologies to me for what was said on the video and I just pretend like hey no big deal

whatever that's on your conscience to deal with so she had a little bit of a vendetta to get back at me what she didn't anticipate was once I eventually did get arrested for the Joe Francis crime she didn't anticipate that maybe I still had access

to those videos right so she didn't actually never did come testify against me. Because the fear for her it wasn't about doing the right thing, making sure that this criminal guy is caught for kidnapping

Joe Francis. It then became about she has to save her own ass. She stepped into this situation by passing this information onto Joe Francis and now it becomes how do I walk myself out of this without

sustaining any blows to my, at that time, her career being on the rise. So, yeah, it all played out in that fashion, and this was all in a two, three month period. Yeah. Yeah, they had no idea that the cops were looking at me for this crime, for the crime against Joe Francis. So going into the first part of 2005, when I got arrested, you know. And that point from the arrest going forward, you know, that, that's, that's, you know, that's,

what I write about in my book. It's the day one of incarceration. Actually, the very moment that the U.S. Marshals, you know, grabbed me when I returned to form it. Okay, so here's, look, so somebody, like, what is the case? Because some, you know, Harris Hilton saying it's so-and-so, and then, you know, Joe Francis calling and saying it's, you know, it's you. And then them looking at you for it doesn't make an arrest warrant. You know what I'm saying? Like that's that's right. That's just a it's just two or three guys saying oh I heard it was

you know. Yeah. So this guy Joe Francis can't tell a straight story. And this is eventually his inability to tell the truth is what eventually allowed me to be able to negotiate plea bargains. So initially he says the the guy that broke into his

home and kidnapped him, tied him up, was wearing a mask, which means that, you know, you're unable to give a clear description on the suspect's face and all. So once he hears from Paris, months later, that it was Riley, and he tells the cops this, now the cops, you know, they put their six-pack together. So they have my photo, my DMV photo, and five other guys that somewhat look like me. When I look at the six-pack, the guys look nothing like me. Their background pictures are white. My background pitcher is a blue,

the blue picture that have is a background at the DMV, you know? So it's like, pick this guy as essentially what this six-pack is saying. This guy's picture is the one that stands out this we want you to fit. That's enough. that's an eyewitness account victim of this is the guy. That's enough to get the search warrant.

And in that search in getting that search warrant will we find any evidence that leads back to the crime? I had been at his home 20 times

over a two-year period partying. So in Joe Francis home, the night that the cops arrived, the night of the crime, of course, they're going to, you know, they're going to dust for fingerprints. So like I said, I've been in his home at least 20 times, you know, invited into his home, not having broken to it. So apparently there was out of the thousands of fingerprints that they pulled, you can imagine. from all the various I don't know what is going on you froze again

hello really yeah you I can hear you you just said out of the out of the thousands of you just said out of the thousands of fingerprints they pulled yours out of the thousands of fingerprints that were pulled that were found at home

that alone for them in their investigation before they ever heard of my name attached to this that's that wasn't enough to start looking at they have a thousand suspects at that point right right and you've been in this home many times i've been in the home right um so once he picks me out there is now another layer yeah that gets the arrest warrant that gets the warrant to search my home so uh and that's where the book begins, the day, beginning of the arrest going forward in my time in the county jail, dealing with the whole world of an incarcerated person, all everything leading up

to eventually having the preliminary hearing where Joe Francis had to come to court and withstand being questioned. This may be the best way to tie in or rather wrap up how the corporate scenes were going. There's two big things that I think even a layman of law can just grab real quick that makes so much sense. So he says that I had a mask on my face. air time.

That was his initial statement on the police report. But to fit the narrative that he's able to now pick me out once Parasotan has given him my name to play alone with, yeah, yeah, I can pick him out of a lineup. He says that for some unknown reason, while I have him as my captive in his home for two hours, that I just decided to take my mask off. So what he's on the stand saying this, you know, there comes a point in the proceedings where we take a break.

The bailiff takes me back to the holding cell and the bailiff is like, well, did he start praying? Because if a guy has his anonymity intact and then he decides to take his mask off, you're dead. That means he doesn't care that you see his face, right? So it's like that's something that the bailiff, you know, who's who sees criminal proceedings

every day, all day is like, that makes no sense at all. It just looks like you're creating a story to fit the moment, you know? Yeah. Another thing that comes up, the night of the crime, he says that I had a blue still

semi-automatic gun, which, you know, comes to be a nine millimeter. When they raid my home, they don't find a, any nine millimeters shotguns revolvers

a huge tech nine so the guy's unable to tell the truth and as you know that's all we're looking for in mounting a defense is to poke holes in his story and that's what the preliminary hearing

is for for the district attorney to test their the strength of their evidence their evidence just happens to be this guy. He's the only witness. He's the victim. And he's not credible. When all of the evidence is,

and that's eventually what it comes down to is they know they can't go forward with this guy as their only witness. Because he doesn't see a semi-thematic handgun in the evidence that's laid out on the table. So he chooses to change his mind and say, he picks one of the 38 pistols that I have, a revolver. He said, that's the gun. The problem with that gun that he decides to say is the gun, which is completely different from a semi-automatic, the problem with that is that gun didn't come into my possession

until like six months after the crime. You know, and the district attorney and the detectives, they're the one that lay that out based on paperwork. And, you know, this gun, Riley could not have had possession of this gun until June of 2004, which is, you know, five, six months after the crime. So it's like the guy was just, he just grabbed him at straws instead of just telling the truth and, you know, seeing where it goes from there, he tried to change the story to fit the evidence, which. for my defense worked in our favor because that got the kidnap for ransom charge tossed out, which then left me with one kidnapping charge, extortion, and a couple of other things. And my attorney was able to negotiate a deal.

We could bargain, you know, maybe we'll, what we eventually settled on was robbery and extortion. what does that carry work in the numbers we set on 10 year eight months we wound up negotiating a plea bargain on the charges of robbery and extortion because of the phone calls that brings in the extortion fees robbery extortion with a gun enhancement and we negotiated down to 10 years 10 years, eight months was the sentence. Is this in the state? State prison, yeah, yeah. I was in a position where I could roll the dice and take it to trial, believing that we had already scored enough shots against his story. But the possibility of losing that trial, you know, what was that? 30 years?

Life still. Yeah, because there still existed a kidnapping charge which holds a sentence of life. And they hate it when you go to trial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So putting my future in the hands of 12 people versus there's an offer here of 10 years. And part of my rationale was, first off,

at that point I had already washed my hands of crime even before my arrest, I really was out. I didn't owe anyone anything. I didn't have any obligations to anyone or any promises that were sitting out. You know, part of it was, all right, I did the crime. I just wanted to be able to get to a position where there was a number that I could live with. Like, this is reasonable. And what do you do on 10 years?

Uh, you do a lot of writing. No, I mean, oh, well, no, I mean, oh, you mean timeline. I'm, uh, yeah, for violent offense, uh, 10 years, sentence, you do, uh, 85% of your, okay. Oh, okay. I went in, I went in with a release date already. So there was no good time to be taken off. There was, there was nothing. I went in with my release date already set. Okay. So you didn't lose good time when you were in. No, you can lose time. You go to the hole, but you can get it back.

As long as you don't... That's how it is in the feds. You go in the feds. They immediately calculate your good time, but you could lose it. You could lose it. Yeah, yeah. And with a certain amount of days or months clean, you could get that time back. As long as you don't catch another charge while you're in there,

it's reasonable to believe you'll leave on your release date. So did you get any halfway house? No, no. just straight parole. Halfway house are for guys that are, you know, getting out to get out earlier. I would, my date of release was set from going in and there was no extra time coming off.

Hmm. Okay. And when you were incarcerated, you wrote your book. I wrote it once I got out. I did a lot of no taking while I was in. and just observations and looking at the society that I was in and, you know, observations of, like, that's an interesting character.

That situation is interesting. Eventually figuring out what I will write about, just knowing that I was living situations that aren't for the everyday person in society, realizing that the society that I was, living in. It was a fully functioning society, hyper-violent. The rules were set

going back 40, 50 years with the gangs and the race structure. No matter how strong, will, or tough you are, you're not going in there and changing the rules. It's set. Right. Some of the

imaginary crimes that an inmate can commit against the rules that other inmates put on each other, You know, a lot of your life in there is about negotiating whose rules you're going to follow. The rules of the institution, which are the rules of the law of the land, or the rules that the inmates place on each other. You know, you decide to follow one set of rules that can get you crossed up with the other, the other set of guys of lawmakers, so to speak. so yeah it's a it's a it's a tight rook walk it's nonstop negotiating with uh factions and

you're just one guy you fall in line and put your head down and hopefully you make it to that release date what what did you do uh for like for work like did you have a yeah you should job first for the first couple of years i was my first prison i went to was corporate. I started off on a level four yard, which is, you know, high security. And then my points drop, and I went to a level three yard. And for the next three years, I worked in the kitchen with washing pots and pants, you know, about two, three thousand pots and pans a day. Oh, the steam, the moisture. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, the one good part about that job is an older dude from Boston that I worked with. And that was our soul. No one came into our

workspace. You know, I get to work and, you know, he had a cheese sandwich mate for already or eggs or whatever. So we'd work out just nonstop bullshitting around with each other. But that was our time, those couple of hours we were at work that all the other stuff going on around us didn't exist. The nice thing about working in, you know, in prison is like it really helps the time. even if it's a shitty job right at least it's it gets you out of there for a second you know even if you're even if you're just sweeping up the fucking compound at least it's like i have you have something to focus on yeah yeah this this guy from boston uh he hated california prison politics you know he he's he's like you know the criminal through and through you know he just

he and his guys that came out to california that gets wheat and they got busted in the sting. So here he is in California where he's doing his time. But he hated all the racial politics that were here. He's like, this just doesn't exist where he's from. But he knows he's not about to change to what's already been said. So he just gets in line. Him meeting me and I'm working with him. To him, it was like, oh, a couple of hours of reprieve from all this bullshit that's going on. Great. So, you know, that was, that was, that's, that's filled my first three years. Bullshit going on constantly.

No, no, no, no, no mistakes about that. It's prison. And, um, there's different factions going at it on a daily to some degree. Um, I then left there and, uh, went into the, uh, fire camp program. Okay. But I got kicked out of that. There was a, there's a, um, there's a, riot there's a this

go back to another institution why'd you get kicked out of the fire program well there was one initially there was one there was a staff member who said she knew me so

she has to report that she knows an inmate knows me from free society yeah yeah she has the option to say hey I don't have a problem with this guy being here or she could say,

hey, I would rather him not be here. Right. All right. She doesn't want to be looked at by other cops as like maybe she's showing me favor or whatever. So most of them say, hey, get this guy out of here. As the inmate, you got no say, you go where they tell you. Yeah, I remember there was a guy who actually went to a high school with one of the COs. And he's in our office four or five days in a row.

And I remember my cellie going, well, I got last long. And I was like, no, that's, I'm, I'm, I'm, it's been five days. I'm shocked. He's still here. Listen, the next day, he was on the pack out. Yeah. Juan, they just shipped him. Yeah.

And he was so blatant about it. Like, he's sitting on our desk. He's talking. They're up late. They're laughing after count. He's in the office. Talk is like, what are you going, bro? Do you want to get shipped?

Yeah. You're just stupid. Yeah, he was in La La Land. I mean, I was in another. place with a CEO who I had known from this from outside um he made the announcement to the cop but his thing was I have no problem like he wasn't he didn't work the yard I worked on uh he didn't work the yard that I lived on he had worked like an overtime shift and he saw me yeah okay but so you know he just has to send the memo to

the authorities, but he's like, we're not on the same yard, so I'm never going to see the guys, so no big deal. But just to keep himself in the clear, he had to make the statement. This lady, she believed that we would come in contact with each other. I remember there was another guy. He knew somebody and knew another CEO. I remember we were walking around, like the guy had just got there, and the CEO saw him and walked up to him and talked to him for like a minute and walked off and he was and this guy had just been there he's like yeah I know that guy and I know his brother like from the street or something and he said listen bro he said don't tell anybody that you know me he's like I'm not going to mention it he is I mean

don't tell your buddies don't tell you know he's like don't he said you tell somebody they tell somebody said you're going to get shipped because I'm not going anywhere yeah he said you know and and you know and that's the thing is in federal prison they just those are ship you. That's it. Yeah, a little gasoline therapy, right? No. I mean, so, uh, uh, okay, so, so,

yeah, the one job and then you were right, you didn't do any other writing that was really it. You didn't, because I, you write now. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I, I'd call home, I called a different buddies every couple of weeks, every month or whatever. My buddy's Scotty Connie. He, Every time I called him, he would always ask me, you know, what are you working on? What are you writing? So, you know, I'd do short stories or whatever. I'd mess around. I just did a lot of note-taking. Just, you know, details about certain people, certain scenarios.

So when I came out, when I made parole, I already had laid out the story I was. going to tell. So, you know, me writing it, it was just, it just flowed because I had already sat with it for so long. I had already known exactly what I wanted to talk about. So coming out, I just set a couple of weeks aside and just went balls to the wall and wound up finishing the manuscript, which eventually became the memoir, like in nine days. It was just, it was, it sat with me so long. I had already had it so detailed in notes that writing it was the easy part. Right. Yeah. I had lived it, you know. Yeah, I was going to say I wrote my memoir, but it was when I was locked up, but it took me like a year. But I also rewrote it like three times. Right. I didn't

really know what I was doing. Right now. So, you know, I wrote it like, rewrote it three times. And then I started writing other guys' stories. But the last like six. months to a year that I was locked up I was in a drug program called ARDAP and that I actually took notes the whole time I was there because I knew I didn't have time to write anything but it was such a bizarre experience to be in a residential drug program inside of a federal prison and the stuff that was happening there was so insane so I just made tons of notes and that really was probably the fastest book that I wrote. And I didn't have an outline, but I did have just a series of of really good notes. And I knocked that book out within a couple of months just. Yeah. Yeah,

once you get into full and, you know, you know what you want to talk about. Having lived in that world, you know, you hope that your writing translates to the reader being able to smell the funky guy's feet who's a couple of buntz over, you know? You hope you can have that detail to very clearly understood that, you know, that's why you don't like that guy.

It's like the guy's done nothing to you, but I can smell his feet and bunks over, you know? Yeah, I wanted to give the reader a good understanding of the boredom the violence the rules that defy logic you know what bothered me the most probably

the noise right it was so loud in prison like people don't think about that and you're never you're like never alone like I was in a medium and at least in the medium

there was you know you had some of the cells were two man cells so at some point the doors would close and it's just you and your celly, and it's quiet. But after I got out of the medium and I went to the low, man, it's never quiet.

You know, maybe four o'clock in the morning. Yeah, right. Yeah, there is that you, yeah, realizing you're not alone, even when you are in a sale, if you are in a single man's sale, you're still not alone. Yeah, there's people around you.

Every couple of months, the power would go out. There'd be about a three to five second delay before the backup generators kick in. But the power would go out two in the morning and that deafening silence would kick in because you don't even hear the buzzing sound from the lights. you don't hear the sound of various electrical outlets

you don't hear that buzzing sound of electricity passing which then you realize oh shit this is real silence right here all the sounds that kick in that are just constantly a part of the prison life it's like ah

you know there is no escape the noise no doubt it's like shut up already like what are you talking about I've heard that story 20 times actually two years ago when I heard you say that story you didn't have a Cadillac you had an old Chevy you know it's like you know you're telling it now to a new guy so you think you're going to upgrade the car in that same story all right you can have that one you know so what are you doing now uh writing uh second book was released um collection of short story

I wrote on the first season of a show on CBS that is about, it centers around the inmate firefighter program in the state of prison. And you're one of the writers? I worked on the first season. The show, it's going into the second season. You know, we just came off this writer's strike. But the show centers around an inmate who goes into this inmate firefighter program to give us. more time cut off his sentence. Right.

Just so happens that it's the, where the place where the firefighter program is, most of them are in Northern Cal and the wooded areas. The inmate firefighters work in the, with the Department of Forestry. It just so happens to the town that that fire camp is in that he's assigned to. his mother and father are in these fire divisions so he now has to engage with them and what got him to prison is laid out

and revealed and it's a family drama it's called Fire Country on CBS so it was a great experience as my first time in the writing room for television and yeah looking forward to more seasons of whatever looking forward to

selling a show of my own, no doubt. But it's a great experience and, you know, it's a collaborative thing writing for television versus writing a film where, you know, yeah, well, okay. Yeah, I was going to say that must be weird, you know, the whole. Is everybody assigned certain individuals to write for or like how, I don't understand. Does one person write an episode and then somebody else just ends? edits it? Is it like having an editor or how to... No. So 11, 12 writers in the room. There's, say, 22 episode season.

You have episode, you're assigned episode three and episode 11. But this week we're working on, let's say, the episode three. It's going to take us two, three weeks for us to break. The whole room, we're giving our input. We already know where this, story is going to go for the whole season the season arc so we have each episode has to be working towards getting us to those that part in the at by the end of the season where we want to where we want to be so each episode an individual that is his episode he is given that credit for that episode but everyone has input so when the episode is eventually we get to the point of writing that episode.

You as the author of that episode, you may hand out scenes to other folks to write. I may get three, four scenes. You hand out a couple here, there. So there is that collaborative part there. It then goes off to the production company

then the studio and they have their input. So there may be reworking. There's plenty of times where they just kick it back and it's like you got to start from round one because Jimmy can't die. Jimmy can't die and Jimmy can't kill anyone. You know, it's like you guys have Jimmy killing so on.

We want to keep this character. He may be a spinoff. He may be as we see him as being a spinoff. We got to keep him. So those conversations happen in those conversations. And to a large degree, starts informing the decisions we make in the storyteller. That's horrible. Yeah, horrible.

That's got to be frustrating. well as a writer you check your ego yeah because you're in a room with 10 11 12 other folks that are just as talented as you there there is a goal uh there is a format for television that's different than writing uh just for film uh there's a format that's different from network and you know something you would see on a streamer on cable uh definitely it's different than uh writing the non Novel. Yeah. You know, novel, you can do a whole lie with exposition.

You can do a whole lie with real colorful language to describe characters and how this person talks and this and that. You don't have that in television, you know, you got a format, you got to hit it hard. Yeah. How long have you been out? 10 years. Yeah, 10 years. Nice.

How long were you on, you weren't on supervised release, probation, right? Were you released? leave on some kind of parole. Yeah, I had a three-year parole. So I had finished parole in 2017. Yeah. Finished in April 2017. My birthdays in May, I was turning 40.

I took off to Cuba. Okay. Did I spend my birthday in Cuba just to kind of celebrate being off parole as well as a new era, a new decade. a new decade of life, you know, 40 on up. Okay. 40? You're 40? I'm 46 now.

I had turned 40 in 2017. Oh, give it. Yeah. All of this gray, that's evidence. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's super thick on me. Right, right. Hey, if you guys like the interview, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified videos just like this.

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