Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Downfall of Wes Watson, $1M Heist Gone Wrong, & Life In Prison

Episode Date: February 12, 2025

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Wes Watson was my OG. I despise Wes Watson, but the advice wasn't bad. He's morphed himself into a monster, and the advice is turning back. He's probably going to prison. They somehow steal jewelry from this dude. One of the pieces being the necklace were pretty warm. The only thing I want to say is just,

I really appreciate you guys. When I found your story I resonated with it, not the fraud aspect I hadn't done any that, but just you're starting over. Yeah, and that you're like a, you are okay. okay with being a civilian i like being a civilian you're not like this i never told i'm this fucking super gangster you know so that that's yeah man i just want to say thank you i can't nobody's

gonna be able to do it better than west watson right west watson was my o g in san quinn what's old west doing these is uh beating people up there yeah we're about to do a uh video on him here soon in a week or so he beat some guy up in the gym did he oh i no i mean oh he He's kind of fucking gayser. They, like, assaulted somebody in the gym. Oh, bro. He was like, I don't know all the details, but it seems like he was like calling people out. He's like, if you got a problem, come down here.

Yeah. Someone came down there. Yeah, it was come down here and we'll go outside the parking lot and it'll be me and you, but that's not what happened. The guy came down there. Walked up to him just and Wes gets in his face and Wes has got like three bodyguards. Bro. And they attack the guy.

beat him up once he's on the ground West kicks him in the fucking head a couple of times oh bro he's going back to the joint for and it's like the fight's over and he's still the guy's laying on us you know and he's stomping no the guy's like laying there like he it's over he's on the ground and he runs

up and kicks him in the fucking head I mean he's like walking around the gym like he's not in danger anymore it's over you and one of his bodyguards grabs a fucking a weight and is hitting him with hits him with the weight they're kicking the guy multiple times serious bottle of injury with a weapon.

And it's all on tape. Bro, he's... He's done. Well, now, Florida's a stay in your ground. If you come, if you, you can do exactly what happened. The West didn't stand is fucking... Right. Well, what happened is he does, but when the guy approaches him, they can get into a fist fight.

Yeah. But your buddies jumped in. Exactly. You weren't in danger. So if you're in danger, you feel you're in danger. And West could maybe make that argument. The guy came down, but the guy's just standing there. He never goes at West.

Right. They're just arguing at this point. And Wes attacks him. West throws the first. It looked like that to me. He's hit. He's done. They fall on the ground.

When he's on the ground, the other guys jump on top of him. They beat him to senseless. And used a weapon with the weight. One of the other guys did. Then the guy kind of stumbles and falls on the ground. He's on the ground on his knees. Wes kicks him once. And then he walks around and he kicks him solid in the fucking head.

So it's at the very least, it's like aggravated. aggravated battery. Right. Like it, you know, I don't know how the laws are in Colorado, but in, in Florida, you give a lot of leeway. Oh, I'm sure. But you don't have that much. But you can legally fight too consenting adults.

Oh, absolutely. If they wanted to go outside the parking lot by themselves and go into a fist fight, perfectly fine. As it should be. Wouldn't have been a problem. As it should be. Once you're no longer in danger, and he was in danger, not only that, your buddies had jumped in.

Like, it stopped being stand your ground, and it started. just being an assault. So I think he's probably, if he doesn't get five years paper, he's probably going to get a couple years in prison. He's got a lot of money. He's probably going to have to sit down for a calendar, bro.

You don't think? I think the media or the court system will want to teach him a lesson. The problem is the video. Right. So, they beat the dog shit out of that, dude. I'd love it if they taught,

well, here's the other thing is, too. This wasn't me or you. First of all, all the guys looked like Wes. They're all big. He was a tiny one. But the guy that showed up has got to be like six foot six black guy. And I mean, just a brick shit house. Yeah.

But he's, he let's face it, he's not much against four of the guys. Oh, no, no one is. So it doesn't, yeah, it, you know, like, and trust me, nobody, I, I despise Wes Watson. But, yeah, I feel like it's, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, at the minimum, it's a few years. But I'm always shocked at what people get away with. Right. You mean both. Yeah, the disparity in sentencing is so one guy will do 10 years and the next guy will do two

and the next guy will get probation. And it's all the same charge. So wishy-washy and weird. But like I said, they do have a video. I think we're watching the downfall of West Watson before it very us. There's been a lot of video, there's a lot of like, just like normal YouTubers who cover anything and everything. And they're making videos about before this, but they're like,

this guy, Wes Watson, is going insane. Like he's... Like you said earlier, any attention's good attention in the world of media, right? You don't think this will further fuel his career? Well, I think with him it's a little different. Because his business, like, his business model too is like people are paying him, like, you know, thousands of dollars for like coaching and stuff where it's like... Who abused them?

Yeah. For us, like our model. all was like views money. Right. So it's like, or views equal money. We're not selling like a program. Right, right.

It's on like a certain type of reputation. Like we're doing this. Like him having negative press hurting his reputation probably does end up hurting his business. Right. Okay. But I mean, it's kind of probably to his own doing.

You know what I mean? I wonder what his end goal. I mean, he should have just walked away like in 2021 while he had all the cloud and all the good stuff. The guy's a lunatic. He's a loser, bro. He's spending every dollar he gets to look. Fucking.

Look like he's making tons of money. And the things he's spending money on, like, so, like, bro, like you're spending, God knows how many, you know, tens of thousands of dollars to rent somebody else's house.

So that you can look like a picture. He rents it all. Yeah, everything's rented. Nothing's in his name. And then his fans will come out and be like, yeah, because he's smart.

It doesn't look like it's in his name. But he's got this. And he's, no, he has an actual land. landlord that owns a building. It has nothing to do with West Watson. Yeah, he's like, Wes is renting this guy. My watch is $500,000. I was like, bro, I'd never spent $500,000 on a plastic watch.

Yeah, he's, he's just, it's just stupidity. It's, it's sad. Yeah, it's, there's some deep, deep-seated issues there that there's, there's something really wrong. And it's funny because when he first got out of prison. I was going to say it. When he first started, I kind of liked it, yeah. Because it was just like, hey, like, work out, be a man. He was in a park. Yeah, yeah. Be it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it was just good advice, but it's morphed into something. He's morphed into, uh, not, his, okay, his delivery was horrific, but the advice wasn't bad. It was good advice in the beginning. Right, but the advice is, he's morphed himself into a monster and the advice is turning bad.

And the fact that you would, he's got guys, he's giving business classes, like, you've never run a business. No, he hasn't. So the fact that, and when people come to me and they want to ask me. about business advice. I'm like, well, I'm not going to give you business advice. Not that I would give you bad business advice, but the problem is, is that I've never had a successful business that wasn't based on fraud. Right. So I'm not going to take your money. Yeah, until now, but I'm not going to take your money to give you good advice when there are people that have done it the right way. They're way more qualified. Right. And way more qualified. And I agree with you.

When I get into a jam, my first, my go-to move is fraud. Right. That shouldn't be. the guy you're listening to. Oh, yeah. So you find, there's lots of competent people. Colby, I feel like you'll know this. What was the, was it the fresh and fit? What was that thing that he's all dressed in white? And he, it was like kind of the start of his downfall.

Do you know what I'm telling him out? He's on stage with, about six months ago. He's on stage like 10 guys. He's fresh and fit. Fresh and fit. And he starts degrading these guys. I, yeah, I don't, I don't know the details, but I have heard something like that. Yeah.

That's kind of what I trade. his whole it was semi unraveling anyway because the truth is is like he says he did this much time right he said 10 years he didn't do 10 years he wasn't in that prison he was in like Oklahoma yeah he's got a bunch of you know

I was in the Cal I'm a product of the California penal system you weren't California you want a shop collar you didn't hoop your fucking paperwork that's the crazy that's the craziest one yeah he's got it's it's silliness and here's the thing you could have simply

told the truth and you'd have been just successful you didn't need to lie about it maybe more successful you didn't need to embellish and then you wouldn't have given your your haters um ammunition right they're they're not hating you for things that didn't happen you gave them the ammunition against you it's still not working because people are just flocking to him for other reasons but you don't have to lie to get to get to the to where you are i think the general consensus though is the The guy's a lame, fake. Yeah. I mean, I don't doubt that he, you know, absolutely beat me into the fucking ground,

but I don't think that beating someone in the ground makes you a man. Yeah, but I bet you could outrun him or outlive him. I would have to. I bet your heart outlives him. Guaranteed, dude. I hope so. With all the human growth hormone and trin and shit that dude's got pumping through him. Listen, I'm going to, I'll send him the video.

When you see the video, it's, like, it's, and they blur out everything. Please do send me the video. They blow out everything. Yeah, to get monetize. They can barely share it to you. Gotcha. It's only clips that you're like clip here or clip here or clip. Because that's how monetization works like.

They can't show you. These guys are having to remove the gory stuff. I bet I could find the uncensored version on bitch shoot. Yeah, I think the uncensored version might be on Baller Busters and Instagram that kind of goes after, you know, I guess. I see the context clues in the name Baller Busters. Yeah, yeah. People that are like ball, you know, maybe putting on like a fake lifestyle and they're, selling high dollar coaching or whatever and they kind of go in there and say like uh not really

got you that's pretty funny well hey hopefully uh hopefully old boy figures it out but you're gonna learn the hard way in that big fucking bubble bath or whatever the fuck you sits in that dude's crazy he's always like in this huge bubble bath like you want to get to this point brother it's like you want to drive a rose voice say no i really don't No, I don't care. I like my truck. I'm all about productivity, feeling energized, and staying strong.

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Try it risk-free with a 100-day money-back guarantee. Trust me, your future self will thank you. And thank you to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode. Yeah, let's just start like where you were born, that sort of thing, you know. My dad, he's working in a nightclub. Okay, this nightclub is called the Garden of Eden. He's a bouncer there. and we don't have a lot of money man we don't come from money so he you know he starts immersing himself

in the underworld of l.A. at the time and mind you he's also dating that playboy bunny her name sandra bentley she had been with the gentleman before she met my pops named mark yagala who's a billionaire wall street guy yeah that's familiar you might know him because he was a fraudster type of cat he did the name sounds familiar i don't know if i know but it does sound it does sound he did he did time in the feds i think oh did he for fraud okay like big fraud so anyway she she was with that guy breaks up ends up with my pops they somehow get the idea to steal jewelry from this from this dude to make a long story short they end up acquiring a bunch of jewelry one of the pieces being the necklace from pretty woman oh okay yeah yeah yeah yeah

I'm an encrusted. The famous one where he comes and puts it on her and she's in a red dress. Yeah, yeah. My pops have, they have all these pieces, and they're trying to sell it. They have no certificate of authenticity, so no legitimate jewelry dealers in L.A. are going to touch it. Everyone's like, no, get away from me. And they end up talking to some guy at the nightclub. He sets up the deal to make a long story short.

My dad ends up getting killed in the transaction. They shot them both, and then they burned the car with the bodies in it. Did these guys get the necklace? They got all the jewelry. So you would think they could track the necklace somehow. Somehow they would eventually, or did they catch the guys and they just couldn't get enough on them? Did they kind of know who it is? They never caught the guys.

But do they kind of know who it is? I think the LAPD definitely knows. Because, you know, here's the problem is a lot of times, like, they'll know who the guy is. Like we know we just don't have enough evidence. Like we have people because people are always coming forward saying, listen, those, that murder, these guys did it. We know it, but they just can't get them, you know. And murder is very, very difficult to prove in court. It's the hardest trial, right?

Right. I was going to say that's the one where you just, you know, most of these guys get away because they, you know, the cops are, they know it. And the families would be like, you know, Johnny did it. What are you doing? we have three people saying he did it but that's not that's not proof that's not enough you're right so it's it's a difficult and as far as the necklace is concerned you would think well they they had to sell that but really they probably just broke for a limited time at mcdonald's enjoy the tasty breakfast trio your choice of chicken or sausage macmuffin or mcgrittles with a hash brown and a

small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery book it down for diamonds and sold an indivision You see what I'm saying? To a fence or a couple fences. So then it's like if I had, if I was a guy and I had the necklace, where's the necklace? You see what I'm saying? Like it's a tough sell unless they get this guy on tape and they find the gun and they, you know, it's a hard, it's a hard pill to swallow. After that, what happened with your mom?

Basically just destroyed my mom psychologically, emotionally, mentally. and my sister and I, we had also been equally just as devastated from the event, right? So we were all lashing out in our own ways. It was all manifesting differently for each of us, the trauma of our, you know, my father or whatever. But anyway, for me, I was just looking for attention from older male figures, gravitating a lot towards gangs. tagging crews stuff like that just skating all day painting graffiti all day basically just trying every drug i can and trying to impress older males as much as possible so do you join a gang

no i didn't join a gang at that age i was part of a tagging crew okay um i'm not going to say the name of it end up being like somewhat of a decent crew back then but uh you know just painting a bunch and what does that mean a tagging crew like i mean i think that you guys tag um just randomly you are you putting together like like i hate to say this because i'm just going to make me sound like i absolutely don't know what i'm talking about but are you guys doing like actual like you know um like murals and stuff or you just doing small tags and what are those tags made like i don't know i don't know yeah what's the what's it like do you said it's a whole cruise so it's like are there multiple crews how does it how does it how

hours of work do you guys go out at night like a midnight or what's the reason it sounds so ridiculous when you guys say like that sounds a super and it is pretty lame looking back but basically man no there was no murals and it was like a group of you know kids essentially going out of night but really so it is kind of i mean i don't want to call it gangs but think of it like this let's say you have a name right like we call it ksf king size family okay that's your crew you got folks in it that came before you you got asked to be on it whatever you join it you're tagging ksf with your moniker right let's say you you write colby you write colby ksf that's your tag tagging crew basically just lets folks know who you run with

in the graffiti world you know but yes the idea and the point is to spread as much of y'all's name throughout the city through the medium of spray paint art you know I mean is there is there ever any beasts with like your other yeah the other I would actually think how do you make money off of it there's no money I have you know I'm saying obviously there's not understanding it's just pure passion okay yeah but and yes there are beefs we had it we had a friend actually uh growing up um get killed as a result of it over graffiti yeah he was tagging in an area that he shouldn't have been in a gang area like an actual yeah territory or whatever and yeah folks came up and and he

my buddy pulled a knife out on and was like back the fuck up blah blah blah took off and then they later on came by their tattoo shop and sprayed it up and and this is like middle school age that you're kind of getting into this? Yeah. Are most of people doing this? Are they like in middle school too? Or is there like, you know, older? It was mixed ages all the way up until 20s.

And do you do it as a group? Are you guys all running around together? Not every single night, no. We all, you know, folks have jobs and lives and brothers and sisters and kids and blah, blah, blah. But we, when we could, yeah, we'd be together for sure, looking out for each other while folks are you know tagging sometimes have homies on our shoulder or whatever to you know and are you looking for like is there any like a lot of effort for like what not under the i don't understand

what the goal is point was just we like graffiti and we like we like blasting graffiti all over city but looking back it's fucked up yeah would you look like specifically like oh like this is a nice new building downtown no so there's rules there's seven rules that we have bided by No churches, no cemeteries, no high schools, no cars, no houses, no rocks, no trees. But I've broken the rocks one before. Like fight club. But I swear to God, bro. And this is, is this in Colorado, back in Colorado, or are you still in L.A.?

No, this is all in L.A. I, you know, I tied maybe a couple hundred times in Denver. Hmm. and it's just like is it artistic like is it like you guys are trying to make it look nice cool yes it got to that point it didn't start like it started very rudimentary and just you know with a marker but eventually yes it did get to the point where we were trying to make it as nice as possible you know trying to get steisy what about the train cars was that a we bombed trains yeah um but you know i'm i'm i'm not going to sit here and act like i was some vicious

train bomber there were there were some kids i grew up with that are legends i didn't say vicious i don't understand vicious like just wicked like like awesome oh okay yeah okay god i'm so fucking old no you're not man you're young i don't know any of this i know the feds preserved you i see like i you know i know that i've heard people say you know like a tagging crew this and that but I never really kind of thought they were doing spray painting and I thought it was maybe gang related like for gangs that help mark their territory or something and they was but the the goal is to let everybody know this is our area and then nobody come in here because this is where we sell drugs well some people do that you're right okay so I'm what I just is because

I assume that that's got a very distinctive purpose and ultimately it's to make money but to do it just to do it, then I'd be like, it was like art for the sake of art. Like, it's not about the money. No. But, but then it's really, you guys are just putting your name everywhere. Yeah. I mean, I was 12. Right.

And were you putting your government name or do you have a nickname? No, I'm not a nickname. Yeah. Okay. Put your email address? Yeah. Just tag in my social. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm trying to have a conversation with the police. Yeah. So, you know, just getting into. So what happened? So, how do we how are we progressing from there okay so still 12 uh i'm sitting with my older buddies falcer and bewer those are their tag names um and they're they're like hey youngster we i used to smoke at foster's house that was my older homeboy all the time and we're just

blowing blunts in his garage and they say hey you know go in the house real quick and grab something I forget what they asked. It must have been something, like swishers or something. I say, okay, sure. I go. I realize I had left my little flip phone. I had a little Motorola flip phone. I go back into the garage to grab it, and they're smoking gag off tinfoil.

They all put it away real quick. Hey, youngster, told you to go in there and grab whatever. Why do you come back? I said, hey, bro, what are you all doing? They're like nothing, nothing. I said, no, no, no, what are you all doing? I want to see it. They're like, the same for you, the same for you.

I probably bugged them 20, 30 times. Finally, they're like, Jesus, okay, okay, fine. We don't want you doing this. Your brother's going to kill us. Out of older brother, they're friends with it. I'm like, please, please, just let me try it. They're like, okay, fine. But if you try it, you can only do it with us,

and I don't want you doing it all the time. And I was like, okay. They're 18, 19, and how old are you? 12, on everything I love, straight up. Oh, listen. And they let me try 12 A couple of good guys

You know honestly man I haven't seen Bueur in a long time But Fals was a good dude He really is He fucked up that day Bad, he fucked up He made a bad decision But

He has a good soul man I thought you were saying No I really pushed him into Yeah the 12 year old Really put a lot of hair pressure On the 18 year old I'm not going to justify his actions. But he is a good person.

All right. Okay. People change. I get it. Bad decision. Of course, you're 18, too. 18 at 18, you should really be making any, any major decisions. Especially for someone else.

That's what I was like, especially, like, I shouldn't be in a position to make any decision for you. Exactly. But, okay, so, so, and then you, but you, you quit that. You graduated high school. You went on a college. You became a CPA, and you open a CPA firm. Exactly, became a lawyer. I thought it was, that's where the story was going.

Yeah, sure did. Don't forget the, I almost went to the NFL. Yeah. But now, so. It's always, I blew up my shoulder. I was this close. Yeah. We've literally had multiple people that's happened.

I'm like, how is it this is the third guy that blew out his knee? Right. No, it just progressed and got worse. Basically, so at this particular time, we're living on the west side, and my mom, she's remarried again, okay, to a gentleman. We'll just call him G. Okay. Now, he has a son. Up until this point, we've lived with them for about six years. They're getting into it every night. My mom and G. and fighting all that. We get kicked out, all right? Now, mind you at the time, an apartment on Sunset Boulevard in 2009 was $2,700 a month. So when we get kicked out, we move into this little apartment. My mom and sister are sharing a room. I have a room.

And my mom can't afford it. You can't live on the west side, right? So we move. We move to East L.A. bam my mom gets knocked up by this dude another guy we're living with him for a bit we get kicked out again what is the issue with getting kicked out like my mom was a crazy fucking bitch okay okay okay that's right i i i i that wasn't but listen positive of that yet she bless her soul because she has changed and put in so much work on herself and she she she is really

turned around you know since that time yeah It's just, it, because I, you know, you, I'll hear these stories and it's like, the person's not, like, okay, is the, is the husband or the guy abusive? No. It's not the guys, man. Okay, so, you know what I'm saying? Like, I always wonder, like, but to me, I hear these people get into arguments and fights. Like, to me, I'm going to get along. Like, you're paying my rent.

We're getting along. No matter what. For sure. I'm always wrong. You know what I'm saying? You and me both. Right. Yeah.

I'm going to placate to you as much. Right. She's not making that. And, and listen, to her. defense, it takes two to tango. There was definitely some of these guys that, you know, but in the grand scheme of pieces of shit, they weren't like bottom of the barrel. They were some of them were all right guys. But anyway, East L.A., she gets knocked up. We get kicked out. At the time, I was going to La Cagnata High School in East L.A. And my sister, I forget what middle school

she was going to but we are effectively homeless now right my mom's pregnant so what do we do we move in with my grandparents in Colorado okay so you move out of LA go straight to go to Colorado right now this further just fucks me up and I miss I miss home miss the palm trees sunshine all my friends just L.A. and Right. Random shootings going by. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, at the time, I wasn't as conservative. Now I appreciate less crime and stuff like that. But we get to Colorado and, man, I'm just, I'm in a bad depression. And I instantly just start asking anyone I could find for drugs. Kids at my high school, we moved to an affluent area in Douglas County. County, Castle Rock, and I'm going to this affluent high school, and all these kids are looking at me in my dickies and my big flannel and converse and my fucking ghetto ass outfit while I'm asking him for gag. They're looking at me like I'm crazy. They're like, who is this

kid? You know, we're playing lacrosse driving Subaru's. Like, what are you talking about? So I don't fit in at this school, and I'm instantly on a downward spot. okay um i mean i'm assuming that you you're saying it down on the spot i'm assuming eventually you found a a plug and you start you know doing whatever yep we're talking about age or we're talking about so right when i touched down in color i initially uh had a bad bow with blow just you know same shit started stealing you know sneaking out behaviors got worse attendance at school got worse, fighting, all this shit, whether it be physical fights at school or verbal fights with family members. Eventually, I get sent to a wilderness program. Do you know

about those back in the day? A lot of them are shut down now. I mean, you know, and like I know of the, what do they call it, the boot camps. I know boot camps. They're kind of like primitive living boot camps for like bad teenagers and shit. I feel like Bozac was in one. John Boziak Yeah, yeah He think Tattoed guy Yeah

He never talks about it It's in the book Because he was talked About how they had these cabins And they made you like Plant grow You know They were growing

Their own vegetable Yes, somewhere like that Yeah he had a whole Ours we were like hiking From spot to spot No cabins no nothing But yeah So I got sent to one of those

And then I went to a juvenile Prison in Missouri And it was like all this Shit from that I come back, bam, get back in it. So by 15, I'm smoking every day. Okay, so how are you paying for this? I'm stealing and being a piece of shit.

Okay. Yeah, what are you, like, what are you stealing? I was going to say, dude, I'm putting my hand in my mom's purse who's barely making 50 grand a year, just doing little shit, stealing from people. I claimed to be my friends, you know, girlfriends, all that shit, man. It was bad. It was bad. It was not good.

Okay. But you're not burglarizing houses or anything? No, we had done stuff like that in L.A., actually. I didn't get into that. But we'd broken into houses in L.A. to steal stuff. I stopped doing that, really, in Colorado. Okay. So how long does this go on?

Like, what, do you eventually get arrested at some point? I mean... Yeah, so it. It just, it gets worse and worse. I did, I got arrested for, like, graffiti and, like, petty theft and shit. But as a minor, about the second I turned 18, though, mind you, from, like I said, by 16, I'm... Right. By, also by 16, I'm getting kicked out the house.

So now I'm homeless. Also, I never graduate high school because I was getting high, leaving every day to go pick up. so I get kicked out of high school too right so I'm homeless doing dope I have no money no job burnt all my bridges by 18 almost like clockwork I go to county like what do you get basically turn 18 and go to county what do you get arrested possession okay well what are they some of the cops pull you over no so I've been selling dope at this point I'm like fully homeless fully immersed in the street life and I'm selling under a bridge downtown off of Colfax and Spear and I got arrested for like eight tenths of a

gram I mean did you sell to an undercover no I almost did but no just the cops pulled up on you and searched you and no they saw me making a sale with a bunch of kids from the college because metro's right there and so I made a sale and I walked out the parking lot and they skirted up on me in a little crown bay okay they what they they they grab them like I'm with I'm with I'm All right. I'm with my, I'm with my lady, my friend, Bird. Okay. Me.

Okay. We're walking. They pull up. They just fuck with us. Like, hey, what's up? We just saw you. Come here. Turn around.

Cuff up. I'm like, what the fuck you're talking about? Like, we just saw you, you know, don't, don't play with us. I'm like, yo, what are you talking about? They search me. They find a dope. Is it possession? Is that possession?

Just a possession. They tried. They actually, they held me on an investigative hold. They did two extensions on it. They requested two extensions. An investigative hold can only last three business days in Denver County. So they filed all three investigative holds or the extensions, and then they just had to leave it out of possession.

They couldn't prove. What does that carry? Is that probation? I saw it walk into the court hearing that day, and my poet defender is looking for our names. He says, Lucas. he's like yeah right here he's like how old are you said i'm 18 he's like you're 18 he's like you don't have any criminal history like no he's like get you a PR bond today probation okay

worst decision though i should i should have done the time right yeah why because you think you would you would have gotten clean yeah okay probation's not the move if you're a junkie don't take probation right yeah not if you want to stay a you know you want to stay No, they'll literally just revoke and reinstate you. Evoke and reinstate you. So is that what happens? Yep. You immediately, you start failing a drug test?

Yep. I turned a two-year probation into seven years of paper. Okay. And are you, and you just, do you continue to sell? Uh, yeah. I mean, dude, this was, you know, 2015. so I was I'm not a good drug dealer I tried to to do it but um it just wasn't really working out I would get too high you know I'd run up a little bit and I'd just do it all so I to answer

a question I continued selling until I got so down bad that I ultimately just became a homeless junkie for real like on the street nothing no no motivation, nothing, like down bad, you know. I'd been homeless until that, but I had never been shelters, sleeping under bridges, homeless. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of night or all of the above. That's where ghost bed can help.

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yourself i need to get i need to get off of this and get my life together or you just thinking i need to stay high as long as possible and you don't even think about anything other than that no matt it was like like a living nightmare i wanted to get clean the whole time man it sucked it was almost like watching yourself from a third-party experience. I know it sounds like no accountability or... I'm not saying I didn't have control, but it almost felt like I didn't, you know? Like watching yourself suffer, you know,

wanting yourself to stop, but I almost can't. Okay. And what are you... And you're saying you have nowhere to live, like I'm in other... You're saying you're living under a bridge, but I mean, you're not living there permanently, right? Like, don't the cops come in every once in a while? push everybody out.

Yep. And then what do you do? So, I mean, I'd stay at Jesus saves or the crossroads off 29th and Brighton or, like I said, that bridge near REI. And you stay there for a while? You go into like a homeless shelter for what, for a while? Like they let you come for a month or for 10 days. As long as you're not being a dick, as long as you're not acting up, they'll let you stay.

You just have to show up every night at a certain time before the, you know, line or before they close the doors and you're good. problem with me was I would be stealing from people or you know one time I got kicked out of Jesus saves because a loaded syringe fell out of my pocket stuff like that how does this go on for seven years do you ever get a job do you ever straighten up like get off it for a month and then you re or is it just continuous so in one in one year besides that uh possession I caught the fraud case

I wrote a bitch-ass I stole a check from my grandma and wrote it to myself okay so I caught I catch that um how much was that

it was for something you would laugh being with your background it was like 250 bucks right nothing nothing that's what you thought you could get

you'd get away with yeah right like he's not I'm not trying to wipe her out exactly she trying to get high blah blah so I catch that

and then did she and she she saw this And she calls the police. The bank called the police. And how it happened was, it was weird because I don't know why we did this. But for some reason, we went up to this random guy in the parking lot and, like, asked him if we could sign the check over to him. So he could.

It was this whole convoluted thing. But the bank is who cracked us. Did he do that? He did. Fucking idiot. Yeah. He did. I've been in Walmart.

I've been not Walmart. I've been in, in, uh, Home Depot Someone asked you No guys have come up to me And been like hey man listen I got a home depot Or I got a gift card for 200 bucks

Give it to you for a hundred bucks right now bro And I was just like yeah no no no it's good good And I'm like no no I believe it's good I'm like I also know Do you put This is somebody else's credit card You used or somebody else like I don't doubt this is going to go through for 250

But I'm not going to be a part of your fraud You're right Like I And I was going to say if somebody came He said, hey, man, can I endorse this over to you? And I'm like, yeah, I get the fuck out of here, but I can't. Yeah, I felt bad. It was a dude and his lady, too.

I really thought you were going to say, my grandmother found out. We cashed it. My grandmother found out. And she called the police. I was like, good for grandma. You know what I'm saying? Oh, no. No.

Yeah. I'm not one to play with. She's not. She's not, too. But she, no, she didn't. So what is, like, your grandma and your mother, like, they know what's going on? how they're trying to help or they just have their own issues that you know or they've tried to help so much they're just done bingo yeah uh shouts out to my mom my

grandma y'all are awesome they you guys did they did everything they could man they tried everything bro they were they were so loving so compassionate and it ultimately just i was just too far gone at the time you know and uh you know you know the amount of rehabs all that a junkie's not going to stop until they're ready it doesn't matter what you could you could give them the greatest advice put the best people around them send them to pastures or malibu whatever the fuck

the greatest rehabs unless they're ready is just not going to happen um so how so this i don't understand they don't they you keep getting failing um drug tests and they don't they they they don't throw you back in jail and they just keep extending it so no no they do how long do you go to jail for a couple days couple weeks that's not that's not that's not through jail that's just that's going through the process but they don't say 60 days 90 days like the judge at no point says

you know what six months no we can get them clean for six months he might shake they never they no they never gave me like eight months or anything fucking ridiculous I mean I don't think that uh you should fucking some guy who's using drugs I don't think he should get it. five years or something but i mean at some point no six months in county for for for a homeless junkies good for them yeah i was going to say there is a certain there's a certain amount of time that is good to get them past being off the drugs and and even when you get off the drugs people like oh it's been 10 days yet 10 days is not enough no no no 20 30 that's not enough somewhere between the 90 and 180 yeah for sure yeah and then after that you don't want someone

getting jaded i mean to be honest with you really really, it's like a year, not in jail. You shouldn't go to jail for a year. I'm saying, really, if somebody gets off drugs, it's really like a year or so. A year to two years. Before, oh, yeah. Your brain starts to kind of recalculate because you still have, you might not have to be on drugs. You might have gotten to the point where you're like, I'm definitely not going to do them, but you're still got that junkie kind of mentality where you're not, you're still thinking kind of hand to mouth. You're not doing any long term thinking. That takes years. Do you, do you know, The term post-acute withdrawal syndrome?

I've heard the term. The acronyms pause. That's exactly what you're talking about. Okay. So, like, withdrawals last, you know, five to ten days. Post-acute withdrawal syndrome lasts up to two years. And that's those neuropathways in your brain repairing. It's crazy.

Looking about ARDAP. it's the residential residential um residential or addiction whatever program

I don't know what the acronym means there's two things that I thought about when we were just talking one is that I've seen guys

that have gotten arrested come to prison and they act like maniacs like they're not even on drugs they're just act like and you know

that this guy's a full-time drug addict and then like you'd see them you'd see them you'd talk to them late because you don't have to talk to anybody obviously you can go you can go your

whole 10 years and not talk to everyone so but then maybe a year later you talk to the guy or two years later and it was like a fucking person you're like and and then and i had that conversation where i'm like you're like a different person right than you were two years ago when you came in they were like oh yeah well i was doing they were doing drugs in like the county jail it wasn't County. It was a U.S. Marshall's holdover, but I was still doing stuff. Right. Or somebody who turned themselves in, who was doing drugs up to the day they walked in. Are the Fed detentions in there's flooded like that? Um, with, with, no, it's more like the guys that are turning themselves in. Just have it hooped in their ass. Gotcha. No, no. No, I'm saying they

like, you got sentenced to, let's say some guy, they give you five years. And then they say you can report to the prison. So they're still doing drugs. Got you. Up until the day they get to the gate and they come in. Got you. Okay. Because you have to think they're, at this point, it's like, I'm going to jail. They're turning themselves and got you, got you, got you. So that guy comes in and maybe he's on drugs or been off drugs for a couple of weeks. Maybe he's still scrounging around trying to get guys to get them drugs and take anything, you know, because you might be a, you might be doing, you know, H or on the street, then you get to prison and they don't have it.

Right. But they do have something, yes, something else that they'll supplement. But guys would come in. They're maniacs. You talked to him two years later. It's a completely different person than when they came in. But that's because they got off, they stayed off. But I also remember there are guys in Ardap.

In Ardap, we used to joke that they would brainwash you. And in a way, they do. A lot of programs. But to your benefit, you know what I'm saying? In a way, it's good. And I remember this one guy one time. We used to mock. like before he went in the program we would mock the program as like you know that yeah bro they

brainwash you in there and they you know oh man it's crazy stay out of there yeah but he knew he had to go and then when he started he said um he was like bro it's so bad you have no idea and he would tell me all they tell you all the different things that they were doing and the books and the the group this and the you don't understand these guys are like, they're watching you all the time. And so he still knew. He's like, oh, you're scared all the time. So he would go through this whole thing for a few months.

And then there was a few months where we didn't really sit together. And then one day, either he came and sat down or we came and sat down. You get to a point in the program where you're only supposed to hang out with people in the program. So at one point, he was there and we went and sat with him. I think that's what happened. And... Some guy made a joke. Matter of fact, I think I was in the program.

I just started. Hence why you could sit with them. Yeah. And I think my buddy Pete sat down. And Pete, I think, said something, made a joke about the program and about or somebody said, hey, yeah, Mike, have they got you brainwashed yet? or something they brainwash you yet or you know and something like how's a brainwash you know the guy sits down says like how's a brainwash and go and I'm like I'm fighting it you know and then he

says how about you Mike they got you yet and keep in mind up until we were joking about this weeks a month right and Mike sits there with his plate and he stops I don't even know his name was Mike I don't know if I hear but he goes and he looked up and he looked he looked at me and he looked at Pete I feel like it was Pete looked at Pete and he goes no no no he goes you know what they got me he goes what he was what he was they got me thinking right for once and he picked up the plate and walked off wow and i go what the fuck did you just do because keep in mind i can get in trouble right because because i'm mocking the program right and this guy might pull me up in the meeting the next morning and be like stand up you've been

through these yeah right stand up i wants to hold me accountable we sat down the other day your buddy mocked the program you mocked so and i'm like oh my god what did you do you got me fucked up He's like, no, we joke about it all the time. That's Mike. Right. I'm like, no, don't you understand? They got him. They got him.

They've got a whole. You know, she's been brainwashed. It's over. You got me fucked up. You're going to get me fucked. And he's like, I'm like, don't do that anymore. I can't even see you anymore. We had a code word.

We had a code word for when someone was being a, no, someone's around you. You know, in prison, you go to the chow line, right? And you're in the chow line with, it's 150 people. And damn sure is. Yeah. Go into the main middle. and they're not all set up like this, but you go and you get your food, then you get your drink and then you sit down.

That's how the child. It's how most child homes are. Right. But you might be standing there and you're standing pretty close to each other. So if Pete and I are talking, there could be two guys in front of me, but there could be a guy in front of him that's in the program and a guy behind me, even though there's a buffer, they can hear what we're saying. Blueberries.

Right. And so we would walk up and Pete go, hey, so he'd go, so what happened in group today? I go blueberries, blueberries, blueberry, and he'd be like, you know, he would, there's an ear hustler, someone's ear hustling. Somebody's like, there's blueberries around. There's, you know, or you'd say, yo, bro, like, they got blueberries today, man, they don't have no blueberries. And we kind of try and play it all, joking, Robbie Blueberries.

So they got blueberries. Now, you got to have the code words with the hummies, man. It's terrifying. Yeah. But a lot of those guys would fake it until they make it. But a lot of those guys, it would make a significant change in their life. And even though I'm sure a lot of them went back to. doing that what they were doing, the recidivism rate for the guys was lower?

Was much lower going through the program. And that's what I always say is that we're talking about that they should have, if not a drug program, because it's really not a drug program. It's a behavior modification program, right? It's criminal thinking. I think they should have, they should have one, a drug program, but they should also probably have a behavior modification program that you don't get out of it. a prison until you complete.

I agree, man. Because it would help. It's a huge incentive. Right, because most guys don't, they don't have critical thinking, right? Like, they don't think long term. They make those rash decisions without realizing, wait a minute. Instant gratification. Right.

Wait a second. If I do that, why am I doing this? To feel good. What's the result of this? Well, I'm going to feel good. Yeah, but what's the result of this? What's the worst that could happen? And then you kind of go, wait a minute, I'm using the money that I'm supposed to be saving

to pay the rent why am I paying the rent because my kids live here yes like you know and you start playing it out what's going to happen if I don't have the rent you start going through that process and you go oh wait a minute maybe I better not do this you know

most guys don't do that they're like what yeah man I got 20 bucks in my pocket that's as far as they're thinking they give the 20 bucks they get the stuff they go do some drugs four hours later they're coming off it and maybe they're thinking they need dog food for the dog bro yeah now i don't have money for whatever i don't you know not that you're rinsed 20

but if if you're rents a thousand no you had just 900 yeah the 20 might be the difference between the nine you know whatever right you just hit the nail on the head for most junkies yeah rent situations yeah that's yeah that's what and that's kind of what i'm thinking is like what is what was your thought process when this is happening like why i mean because obviously there's an addiction issue, even though I don't have an addiction issue with drugs, because I don't do drugs, right? I've never, I've never seen never smoking a cigarette, never smoked, never done anything. I did have a prescription for Zana. I envy you that you've never done drugs. But you know what I have an issue with where I can think is food. You know how many times I'll sit down

with a bag of chips and I'm just going to have a little bit. And then it's like you, it's like you almost blink and it's an hour later and the bag of chips is empty and you're laying there and you're brushing stuff off and you're like, fuck, I was on a diet. What did I do? There's an empty bag of chips. I've had three popsicles. The pint of ice cream.

What am I doing? You know, I feel sick and I'm like, bro, you were going to have a few chips. So I can understand, you know, a lot of people have, if you don't have an, you don't have some kind of something. Everyone has advice. Yeah, if you don't have one. then you probably have someone maybe you probably have someone handcuffed in your basement for real

there's something going oh for real these people that appear perfect yeah you always find out later like oh yeah they were no no they had a sex slave in in their dungeon seriously perfection people that portray themselves perfect freak me out yeah seriously the church guy the pastor he had an extra family yeah that was because the church thing is great he's got an extra family they don't know about Real. No, my dad's a long-distance truck driver. No. Yeah.

He's a badger. He's a serial killer. Were you regularly robbing people, or is this just what happened? I was hitting licks. I was like a little jack boy for sure. This is my, like, how I like to rob people. Okay. I don't do this anymore, obviously.

Shouts out to all Honduran folks. Shouts out to all Mexican folks. I'm sorry that most of y'all was who I robbed. but um why is why is that by the way because they were the dealers oh okay so it's not you're targeting because they're illegals or anything no no no it's just just because of the product because they're little people because they're brown no some of the motherfuckers are big oh okay some of the motherfuckers are big but uh man so this is what i do so i'd have my buddy pull up right with me i usually wasn't the one with the car the old the old saying is an alcoholic has a car but no

A junkie has a license, but no car. Anyway, so I have no car. My buddy would usually pull up, and we'd have the plug, the dealer, hop in the front seat, passenger seat. When I would do is I'd put my arm around their throat from the back, put my arm around their throat from the back, and I'd, you know, whatever I had on me, a knife,

I'd rob people with syringes before guns, fake guns, whatever. I would just choke them, put a thing to their head, and just rob them. But the reason I like doing that is because when you have someone in the passenger seat in front of you and you have them choked from behind them as you're crouched behind the seat they can't really slope you hit you or do anything that's like the perfect position anyway that's how to do it i'd have them hop in the front

and choke them rob them throw them out the car did anybody fight back a couple times but the most important part of a robbery is is hitting the person you always hit someone immediately and the reason you do that is because you're letting them know that this is real life yeah the first i'm i'm not trying to like train folks but the first thing you do always is crack the fuck out of them if it's with a gun obviously piss them if it's just your hand hit him you know whatever so you got um so you got caught up for one yeah yeah the one time i robbed a white kid he he called the cops on me yeah the one one time yeah it's funny anyway i i uh same excuse me same exact lick same exact um strategy except what he did was he told the cops

that i pulled up on him while he was vaping in a parking lot and i stuck a gun in his face which is hilarious and uh yeah i don't know why he thought the cops wouldn't look through his phone they did they ended up seeing all of his plays he was making with his customers and they they found out he was a drug dealer but um he literally called the cops on me blew my mind so so um you believe that i robbed this guy and he went to the police right so um crazy so what happened what do the police catch up with you okay so i i robbed the guy and uh i'm staying at the time i'm staying at this girl's house name was cheno not that it matters and i robbed him in her apartment complex parking lot like an idiot we're we're counting through the loot i got like all this shit on her bed like

we're all going through the loot all happy smoking blunts the phone starts ringing the house phone her mom who's a tiny old mexican lady picks it up and it's the douglas count of sheriffs and they're like hey we have the house surrounded we know lucas is in there uh everyone get the fuck out and i think the reason they did that rather than coming because i thought i had a weapon okay that's why they had the b b b2 guy right they didn't know it was a b b borgia yeah but um so they all go outside i'm under her dad's bed francisco castro shouts out to cuba i'm under her dad's bed and I'm like eating pills and like trying to like shove drugs up my ass

and I just hear the cops say Lucas we know you're in there if you don't come out we're gonna send the dog and you know we've all watched cops and shit we've all seen I'm like fuck that you know fuck the dog I was like I'm coming out and uh I came out there's a bunch of pigs or excuse me

bunch of cops with uh with rifles and you know right there's some good cops out there I mean, there's some good costs out there. So they grab you, they bring you downtown, they charge you with robbery? It was a decent list of charges. It was an aggravated robbery with a real and or simulated weapon, conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery with a real and or simulated weapon, contributing to the delinquency of a minor because when I robbed that kid, Chanel's younger brother who was 16 at the time,

was in the car with me while we robbed the dude. I was 19 or 18, and, but I took his case for him, just so you all know. So contributing to delinquency to a theft of a person and I think conspiracy to theft of a person or something. But then I pled it down to conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery. And mind you, when I, when they brought me downtown and they showed me all those listed charges, the cops like, you know you're facing up to 32 years. I was like, no.

What do you mean? I'm facing 32 years. You're like, yeah, you're facing 32 years. They asked me, always ask for a lawyer, man. Never talk to the cops, ever. Always just request a lawyer. If they say guilty people don't ask for lawyers, say, sorry, sir, I'm not versed in the law.

I would like a professional here just so I don't, you know, mess up. I didn't do that. I talked to them like an idiot. And they're like, we know you robbed him, blah, blah, blah. I said, no, no, no, that's not what happened. I said, the guy pulled up, we were all just going to smoke. And he pulled out some brown, and I fucking lost it. I said, what the hell is that?

And I took it from him. I tried, you know, talking myself out of it. I said, Christian didn't have nothing to do it. They said, so what about the gun, blah, blah, blah. I said, well, we found a BB gun. I said, well, it's not a gun. you know i didn't have it they just you know brought me to classifications after that and they believe on my merry way well you know they it's not it's not a matter of believing you it's

just you have the charges now go have fun in court you know so they but you said they did go through his phone and that's how they that's what they why they pled it all the way down to is that part of why they play i don't maybe maybe i think it was more just like like this is clearly a junkie with a BB gun robbed a drug dealer and it's not you know

like he's robbing old ladies at the ATN. Yeah he's not robbing a regular citizen. You know, I really wasn't. Right. Yeah. So, so you end up with four years. Yep. You go to, you...

So I initially took a four year deal to community corrections. Okay. So I got a sweet deal. Right. I just fucked it off. So yeah, I go to the halfway house. Okay.

That's what community corrections. is. Oh, I thought community corrections was like the prison. No, no, no, no. It's like, well, I guess Halfway House is technically a level one prison. It's a level one prison. But it's a place where a bunch of folks stay, usually same gender, and they and they leave for work every day. Right. Okay. You have to pay rent, blah, blah, blah, blah. Drug testing, breathalizers. You know the drill, right? Yeah. I think they have a Fed version. Yeah, I did seven months. Okay. So we have a Fed probation house. halfway house okay on federal which is a street um okay so I go I'm at this halfway house man and um I'm doing really good I'm sober for the first time and a long time and I have a decent

chunk of sobriety under me about seven months at the time which for me was huge so I'm in the halfway house I'm working I'm doing very good Morgan Morgan Rose Tarts My girlfriend at the time She ends up passing away And it really fucks me up Okay And I relapse

In the halfway house Okay And what do you get drug tested or Yeah I'm getting drug tested a little time No I'm saying That's that how they find out Yeah What do they do?

The first one they're like You know what the fuck You technically have three warnings In Colorado the first one they're pissed they're like what the fuck um i'm in such a depressed state i didn't give a shit but at the time i was drop i was overdosing so much i would pick up a half gram just dropped the whole thing in the spoon sound like i was dropping a pebble in the spoon i mean it was big big shots um like i said overdosed all the time i remember one time i overdosed in

the king supers bathroom i woke up from the overdose halfway under the bathroom door so I'd fallen from the toilet and gone like halfway into the door I see about five pairs of boots around me and I'll crawl back under the door put my spoon all my stuff away

open the door and there's all the King Super staff and the security guard right there and I just pushed through them walked to the bus stop took it a few blocks down walking in the halfway house it was bad. It was stuff like that you know okay um

and man eventually it just it got so bad i'm starting to lose all this weight it gets to the second drug test i fail and then third and now they're like hey you're about to go to prison we're about to kick you out the halfway house this is where the L of it comes in okay yeah i take it after a couple months of being on a sick one and it saved my life man it changed everything It didn't save me from going to prison because I had failed the drug test already. So one of the, you'd failed the third one. And when I was tripping on all the dose on the, on the, on the L, I'd been smoking a bunch of grass. So that was my fourth.

But I had gotten clean. I'd successfully withdrawn, kicked in the halfway house out of my own volition using Ellis. Yeah, at this point, I'd already failed too many drug tests for dope. So they converted it from a four year community correction sentence over to it. a DOC sentence. And what is that conversion? It basically just means you have lost your privilege of day for day? Yeah.

Four years converts to four years inside? Correct. No, that's not right. No, no, no, no. You still have your time that you did in the halfway house. Yeah. Still, but that doesn't that. I'm not saying you're wrong.

Yeah. That's not right. Like I shouldn't have to do. That's like, to me, that's like I've got a, if you have a five year, let's say you have a four years of probation. Okay. typically what and you let's say you pissed dirty a few times okay let's say you've done so they typically will convert it to 33 in the federal system it's typically 33% of whatever you have

remaining really yeah so let's say you had you did a year you pissed dirty they violate you they say you have three years left of paper so we're going to send you back inside for one year and they kick you up okay you're saying day for day day for day that's just wrong yeah but I kind of look at it like they gave me this huge opportunity and you fucked it up. And I fucked it up. Right. So I mean, I don't know. Um, but yeah, I mean, I was terrified. Never been in prison. Not a gang member. Um, and yeah, like 140 pounds soaking wet, something like that, 150 pounds soaking wet. Right. At the yard. Yeah. What, what level? Do they have levels? They do. Okay. So it's the same as Cali one through four. They send me to a level three yard, bro. So, well, level four would be... Level four is like... Like a camp almost? CSP.

No, no, no, no. Level one's a camp. Oh, okay. Level four would be like San Quentin and Cali. And you went to a three? I went to three. Why? Because of the robbery in my age and all that.

They, you know, the feds that point you out different. Each state, they obviously do as well. Well, for Colorado, they send you this place called DRDC. The Denver, or it's the diagnostic reentry. I forget. Anyway, it's a classification's spot. And they pointed, they point people out. Well, mine were above 15 points.

So I was considered a weapon in a crime. Right. Whether it was a BB gun or not, you used a weapon. I made someone fear for their life. Yeah. And you, you were placed in a drug program and you failed that. Right. So the combination of all those.

And a couple priors. Right. And so they're looking at you like, oh, this guy's, he's a waste. He's a career criminal. he's a waste. There's no reason for us to put more time into him. He's a problem. If he's a problem on the outside, he's going to be a problem in prison, send him to a three. Exactly. Okay. Which is actually, in my opinion, counterproductive for first time. Because you're almost extending the criminality of someone or accentuating it by putting them in a higher custody

level joint. I get you have to for certain circumstances, but I don't know. It really is a con college. Yeah, well, I was going to say they stopped being concerned about the inmate's well-being at that point. I remember I had talked to a judge one time about a guy that I'd done a story on and they kept, you know, he kept, he kept actually escaping from like, these were teen programs, but at some point he basically, they even stopped arresting him. I mean, they stopped, Sorry, they stopped incarcerating him. And he was like, well, he said, you know, he said, you get to a point where it's like this person, we can't continue to invest in this person to try and fix them. So we're going to wait until he's an adult.

And then he'll get in trouble and he'll go to a prison. Right. You know, he's like, and he said, because that's where he's headed anyway. Like, he was just like, we're going to try a few times. And then it's like, okay, well, we're just wasting resources. You're right. I mean, it is an investment. Ultimately, you're going to stop investing, you know, lost cause.

Yeah. Yeah. so what happens then okay so i uh i uh i basically prepared myself um you know sorry you don't push ups yeah looking in the mirror having long talks with myself my scratched up mirror well i did have a couple talks of myself in the mirror but um no i mean i i did i started psychologically preparing myself trying to work out all that shit um and and basically i just anyone that's never been in the joint you see movies you see all the stuff

growing up and that's what you expect right so I was just like I'm not gonna let myself get punked I'm gonna stand up for myself and I'm gonna try not to catch another case or join a gang and uh I did I can honestly say

even though I was a junk box on the street and all that bro I did my time fucking militantly I mean seriously I was like an ideal independent would work out never did drugs read got educated myself got my GED i mean i was i was on point in prison man okay how much time did you do you three years or no i didn't do all or sorry altogether i did about three and a half if you include county time uh halfway house and then the two prison yards i walked okay so did you go to did they do they release you in colorado to a

halfway house or they just walk you walk out of prison uh no so the first prison i went to is crowley county correctional facility um when i got uh what's it called um when i was up for my halfway house again and i got it the second time that was about after a year being in crawley okay okay okay well how was that it was just it was just a messed it's a private prison it's only two private prisons in Colorado now um and yeah i mean it was just terrible just gangs drugs everywhere and mad violent for real it was like top three violent prisons in colorado they asked me to join uh the the main white supremacist gang for those of you that don't know in colorado is called 211 crew it's not arian brotherhood it's not arian syndicate it's called 211 i actually believe they

made it to the feds recently but uh they're there they're they're real gnarly guys. Yeah. They're not like the other white supremac... No, they are. They're all the same. White supremac groups that are friendly and... No.

Oh, yeah. You know, those guys are cool. They're fun friendly. Yeah, they're all... They're all gnarly. There's some good guys. I'm sure you've met them, but for the most part, I didn't mess with any of that. So you eventually went to a halfway house and...

Fucked up again. No, you did not. Yeah. But this time... You need to make better decisions. Hey, she saved my life. She saved my life. Okay.

Yeah, she saved my life the second time. But, uh, no, I mean, I messed up, man. Same shit. I don't know why I relapsed. I couldn't tell you, but I did. Too many hot drug tests went back. This time, however, I was... I had made...

that transition in my head where I had started to hate the substance more than I enjoyed it. And I was, I could honestly say I was ready at that point. Okay. I just had to go do more time. Yeah. Um, did you go back to the halfway house again or the next time they no. I got paroled the next time. Okay. Yeah. When I got sent back though I went to a weird little prison called uh, Cheyenne Mountain since been closed down. Yeah. Right. It sounds like, Sounds like a retreat. Right. Sounds lovely, yeah.

But no, it was actually the weirdest detention facility I've ever been in. It was built like an office building. It was in the middle of Colorado Springs, which is odd. And, yeah, it was a four-story office building with a barbed-wired fence around it. And it was the shittiest time I've ever done. Eight to ten-man rooms, dry cells, mixed custody level. What's a dry cell? dry cell meaning the bathrooms outside of yourself oh okay so you have to you know so you so when

you're you're released you who where'd you go did you go to your parents house i went to my grandma's house yeah grandma yeah she'd never let me stay there before i mean i'd been kicked out you know up until that point it was huge it was a big you know trust for my family um so what uh did you get a job yeah i mean i got out and for once in my life i did what i had said i kept my word i got a job met my wife um and i just started working my ass off man what was the job the first job it was at a pizza spot right like a shitbox job and then from there i you know eventually started i realized my what i had done catching the felonies and and the tattoos and all that limited me it's all starting to sink in finally yeah you're like oh fuck you know all these

decisions all whatever and told me is true it's all starting to sink in so i realized the trades were going to be you know my best route in terms of shitty jobs so yeah i started focusing on trades got a car or got a job at a car shop and then started doing construction um so i have uh my I have my buddy, my LSD story, I told you. Yeah. I have a buddy named Donnie Shackleford. Okay. And Donnie was super smart.

And he loved the Grateful Dead. I'm not sure if you loved the Grateful Dead. I'm not sure how it exactly. I do. How it exactly, if it was before, after it, the LFord. But he started doing LISD. Very smart guy and was online. Keep in mind, this is.

like the internet there's like the dark web and stuff right so he was on the dark web yeah that got like this is in its infancy early 2000 like silk road uh i don't know i don't know what the ones i don't know what the ones are but i'm saying because i'm saying it's we're talking about early 2000 in 2001 2002 like it's just starting right but he's there so he he actually meets i forget the guy who started LFD and is a huge what was it i don't know if he's still alive was a huge proponent of it. He actually went and met with him. Albert Hoffman? I don't think it was... Owsley? Yes. Augustus Owsley, Stanley, the third. Yes. Yes. Okay, so he met him at a

convention. He'd been buying it and was trying to put together a lab. And he actually meets with him and they have like a very, he's like a very frank conversation about it. And he asked to order, he orders, puts together a whole lab and it was very professional. Like I remember he had actually got there was some he got ergardamine tartrate and everything he had the precursors and everything wow everything listen when they caught him the paper said he had 20 million dollars worth of um it would have been street level uh or street product now he didn't have that much on him he had the precursors he said he said he said i don't he remember he was like it wouldn't have been 20 million he was it was maybe 11 of a gram of raw

crystal. I mean, that's a lot. Tons. And here's where they were ordering it. Like they had a way where they were ordering it through Panama. So I figured there was a whole thing. So I explain it. But so he sets up a lab. I think he initially set up a lab where he actually, they were making it in the US initially. He was a small lab. He said, and it was working. He's like, we had a product. I knew the formula. Did this happen to be in Denver? No. Okay. So what? The lab, I don't know. But this part is it. You'll look. You're here. So he does it. And then he starts to do it. And then he starts doing it he had these girls he called them the the angels because there was three girls and what they did was he said we would meet them at the grateful dead concerts he would give them the i guess you know

the papers water the block he would give it to them and you know you could tear them off or whatever he said we would go and we would give it to them meet them give it to them and then they would go around and sell it like it's like it's like $25 or 50 bucks a hit whatever it was he's like they go around and they, you know, and then they bring the money back. And then we, and he talked about like the family. The family. Very, very, you know, what's going on here? So, loved it. Um, eventually what happens with, with Donnie is once they started ramping up production, he got nervous. He started saying, I'm in the U.S. He goes, you understand that you think I'm making in the U.S. He's like, these are, they're giving people life sentences. Oh, yeah, bro. So he said, he researched the,

the country that had the least laws. And he said it turned out to be pertaining to L specifically. Got you. It was, I think it was, was it was it Amsterdam? So. Sounds about right.

What he did was, and he said it was illegal, still illegal. But like decriminalize? But they don't. He said like if I got caught like I'd get like a year or two. Like it was, he's like,

your guys were getting caught and they were getting these ridiculous low sentences. But here they'll bury you. He said, here, you're dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he moves to St. Martin, and he goes to, I guess, St. Martin, and I don't know anything about geography. It's, I think the island's cut up into two different parts. There's, like, the Dutch side and some other side.

I forget, maybe it's St. Bart's or St. Martin. Same. That's not good. Is it? So somebody in the comments is going to correct me, but some island, and half of it is like, let's say it's, and I'm assuming we're talking about, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, the Netherlands. But it may be, it may be somebody else. With somebody owns half that island. He went there, set up a lab, started making it. With Bear, with Owsley? Or is he? No, no. That was a one time.

He met one time and had like a 20 minute to an hour of conversation to help him work out the formula, basically. So he goes there. He sets up a lab and he sets up this lab and they've got it so that they're ordering the chemicals, the precursor of chemicals through, and I'm going to say panamol. They had a panama. There's a lot of money involved. Oh, yeah. So at one point, and they're ordering the chemicals, he said, at one point, they'd been doing it for a couple of years.

And I'm literally flying through customs with the paper. Yeah. He said he actually got searched one time, and they looked at the paper. It's unperforated, white on white. Right. Yeah. And it had the, it already had the, he had little onkses printed all over him. He goes, and the woman takes them, flips them, and she goes, what's this?

And he looks at her and he goes, I'm a, um, He was, I'm a graphic designer. Cardstock, yeah. Yeah, all he said, well, he was, I'm a graphic designer. He said, didn't really answer her question. And she went, oh, okay. Yep. And just put it back and kept going.

Yep. So, you know, and then they would go and give the girls all this stuff. And in his mind, he thought, he said, I'm not manufacturing the United States, so I'm not breaking U.S. law. And that's not how it works. No, sir. But he didn't know, right? This is a novice kid in his, well, there's a kid in his mid-20s.

at this point, so he doesn't think it's a big deal. Because he thinks I'm not making it here. Like most people would think that. You don't, but most people who are novices to how the system works, figure if I'm outside of the United States, then U.S. law doesn't apply to me. Yeah, but what about the fact of you're on law? When I say on law, I mean, Grateful Dead tour at the shows. You're on law trapping.

But he's just at that point, he's like, we're just selling. He's like, but it's not as bad as manufacturing. True. manufacturing you're doing 30 years but if you get caught with you know let's say okay a gram of raw crystal LSD is 10,000 hits you get caught with 20 30 grams or let's say a Bible of blotter you're probably still going to go do 20 years don't think I don't know he in his mind he was like it was like it would have been like if you plead guilty if you do this you don't have it either way I hear what you're saying in his head it's way let yeah and a 40 years right he's minimized it and justified it in his

right yeah so he's flying over there They have a house where they, and they have another place where they manufacture it. They whipped a batches. And he said we would mail it to a guy that would then meet the girls. He's like, we got it. Yeah, the angels. Gotcha. They would pass it out.

And he had tons of these great stories. So here's the problem is that he said, when I mailed it through the mail, it gave the, it became a conspiracy. and he said, so his buddy at one point gets busted. This kid gets busted. I'm sorry, they had mailed a packet. Okay, sorry, here's what happened. He was ordering the pre, it started with the precursor chemicals. Probably the erga.

At one point, he said, we had been ordering it in small batches. And at one point, he said, we were going to make a big batch. It was towards the end of the year. He said, I wanted to kind of finish out the year. Like, hey, let's just order enough and do a bunch of runs, have the pay because it was it was working so well right i might as well just do a several runs have it here mail it as we need it instead of breaking everything down so i i ordered the one chemical i ordered in a larger quantity he goes it tripped a national quantity whatever and he said

and that set the wheels in motion to be to notify like whatever the um international you know international law enforcement Interpol's not notified they notified he said they started a they started an investigation notified DEA well and that investigation

led to him they watch him they watch they grab when they see him mail a package at DSL they grab the package they let the package go through he said because the package usually took like eight days

But he watched on the tracking. He watched it stop somewhere. And he said, I watched it stop for a couple days. And then, he's like, and I should have known. Yes. He said, but, you know, everything was going so good. And I thought everything was fine. He said, and I still thought, you know what?

It doesn't even matter. He said, because, like, I'm not breaking any U.S. law. I'm not in the United States. Right. I'm not in the U.S. Well, that kid, they let it go to the kid's house. He signs for it. They grab him.

Okay. The kid immediately rolls over on him. Right. naturally the Dutch or whoever the authorities that run that island St. Croix I think it was something

I could just want to St. Bart's or something one of these islands is cut in two so he ends up they surround the house they grab him it actually it's funnier than that he's got a whole funny story about how they watched him they've got to the house they're monitoring the house surveying the house

he leaves to go mail pick up something at DSL and he realizes they're coming for him and he runs he's trying to run to the bay and jump in the bay he said i had a friend that had a sailboat that was actually out there he's like i'm going to swim to it he said if i could just make it to the sailboat and i remember when he's telling my story i go did you make it he said i didn't even make it to the bay bro they they tackled me oh yeah he's like they're way faster you even make it out the front door those guys are way faster than you think and um and so anyway he gets

grabbed. He fought extradition. They kept him. They kept me in what was once like a five-star hotel. He said, that's where they kept us. They'd converted it into a detention facility. It was built to a five-star hotel. It was in disrepair. They took it over.

They turned it into a prison. He said, I mean, it was a nice prison. So he stayed there for fought extradition for, I want to say, a few years. Because what happened was they were semi-leaning right the country he was i want to say it was like 18 months to

two years because he wanted to be like he didn't want to go to the united states so so but eventually he he i think he he lost it yeah lost extradiction when he got to the united states oh i know what it was they were trying to give him a life sentence and they said we're not you're going to lose we're not sending this guy to the united states to give him so you can give him something life for something we would give him a few years for. Right. So they took, they had to take that off the table. So then they extradited him. I want to say it was 18 months to two years. So he goes to the United States. The country pressured the U.S. to drop the life. We're not, we're not extraditing him. That's pretty cool of them to do that. But they do that a lot of times with like

a lot of countries do that with the death penalty. They're like, we have a similar law. He can't get the death penalty for that or he can't get life for that. So we're not sending our citizen to do life in your country. He couldn't get it here. And so the government will take that off the table. But it still took years. He was really trying to fight. He was trying to fight even having broken the law. And so they had to agree he'd broken U.S. law in their country. So that's what took so long. So much gray area. Well, first they finally said, okay, he has broken the law. Then they said, great, send them back. We're giving them life. Then it was, we're not sending them back to give you a life. He'll stay here. Like, we'll let him out. And he'll just live.

rest of his life here. And then they went, then they said, okay, we'll take life off the table. So he goes back to the United States. When he goes to the United States, they're trying to give him 30 years. He said, I'm going to trial. Basically life. Right. Well, he said, I'm going to trial. Yeah. So I remember he was going to trial. And I do remember this part pretty clearly. It was 30 years. He said, I'm going to trial. He said the problem was the rules regarding evidence. there were different here. There's discrepancies. Well, they'd already destroyed all the evidence.

And they'd taken his lab apart. They had photos, but he said they took the lab apart. He's like, well, you can't even present the photos in the United States unless you can provide the equipment. Right. The equipment doesn't exist. Oh. And he's like, so I was like, I'll go to trial because you have no evidence.

Right. And the people that arrested him, you'd have to. fly those people to the United States. So this takes about a year of fighting. And a new prosecutor comes in and says, okay, look, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to give you a deal. I'm going to give you 20 years.

And he's like, nothing's changed. I'm going to trial. Period. Unless you offer four or something like that. So he had already done about four or five years by the next Fighting. The next prosecutor comes in and says, I'm going to give you 15 years. Fuck you.

Yeah, fuck you. He keeps with a new prosecutor comes in. This is how many years have gone by. It's now since he's been arrested. He's shot through five, I think five years. That guy comes in and says, I'm going to give you 10 years. And I'm going to recommend that you get the drug program will give you a year off. Oh.

So on 10 years. you do 80 back then you get less time you got more now already got half a decade in well you got more you get okay more now you get more now than you did then back then you got 15 percent so on 10 years you do 85 so he was going to he was he's like so i had eight and a half years left to do i'm sorry he's eight and a half on the 10 plus halfway house he goes plus i'd already done like almost five Right. So I've got three and a half years and I get the drug program. So he's like, I get a year off for the drug program.

He's like, so now I'm down to two years. Yeah. That's a sweet fucking deal. Right. And by the way, he also gets six months to a year of halfway house. So now we're talking about a year and a half. Yeah. So by the time he gets, he gets to Coleman, he's there a month.

They put him in the drug program. And he was a motherfucker in the drug program because he was a motherfucker in the drug program. because he was so smart right and he wanted to argue about everything right it was love to argue so he ends up going through the drug program he does get i don't know if he gets recycled or not but basically he does get that he gets the year off then they put him for a halfway house he goes to the halfway house he ended up doing six and a half yeah something like that a lot less he goes to a halfway house pretty good deal yeah and and and then he ended up going to california and i talked to on the phone a couple times

when I was locked up. Gotcha. Just the nicest guy. I would have loved I was writing. I don't know if I was. I was writing. I was writing,

but I wasn't writing other guys' stories. I think I was working in my story when we knew each other. So I had not gotten to the point where I remember saying I wanted to write his story. But he didn't want to work on

writing it while he was in the drug program. his fear was that they would find out that we were writing his story and they would use it against you're you're glamorizing you know your your lifestyle and they'll throw him out yeah so what he did instead what we did instead was he you know we said we'd work on it when he got out we never did I got a couple phone call I called him a couple times I didn't get phone calls from him I called him a couple times right name was Donnie Shackleford and I would love to find Donnie Shackleford love to love to Jake that guy's hand. He had a great... And by the way, the story I just told you is... One of many. Many... Like, he had stories with these girls.

He had a big thing where this was a... I remember his girlfriend's name. One of the angels or... No, no, no. This was his main girl... His girlfriend's name. Her name was Paradise. No way.

She was raised by hippies. He met her at a Grateful Dead concert. I love this. And here's the thing. She's the one who had access to almost all the money. And I mean, he had like a million some odd dollars. He said, So he would, when he would talk about her, he would get pissed.

And he would say, and I'd say, yeah, but I thought you said she gave your attorney $200,000. He goes, because she had paid the $200,000 disappeared. Oh, shit. And he was like, he's like, yeah, yeah. I go, she could have just taken the money. He's like, yeah, hmm. And this wasn't an angry guy. Yeah.

You know, but he would get, only time I'd ever see him get angry. And he'd always be like, okay, I'm, I'm okay. he'd go well if I ever find her well guess what he did find her oh shit they were the last

no the last phone call I got they were they were back together I was like I thought you hated her I thought you said yeah you know I didn't really know she was scared bro yeah she didn't know she didn't know

the A's looking for people they're talking to people and you know I wasn't around to answer questions and you know I and I'm thinking boy that must be a nice piece of ass for real 800,000 Really, it was like, it was more than it.

It was like a million dollars that she really got up. But I'm saying she didn't pay the 200,000, but she still ended up with like a million. Oh, so she got a whole am. Listen, I saw the articles. The articles were like $20 million in, in, in, in, in enough to make $20 million dollars. Worth of work. Damn. I mean, you know, very, very smart guy really like it, really liked him.

I would love to find him, but I don't know if you realize this, but I didn't realize this, but. It's a very common name. And I'm not great at... Shackleff? Yeah, I'm not great with tracking people down, right? I would love to track him down. You guys, do either of you ever watch, or did you ever watch King of the Hill back in the day?

I have watched it. Okay, you remember Boomhauer? He's always like, that's his pseudonym. Whenever he doesn't want to be known, he's like, rusty Shackleford. But it's just funny that his name is Shackleford. But yeah, I mean, hey, the man, shook Owsley's hand.

And I want to mention this to you, too. He had told me a story one time. So remember when you talked about your brain being kind of rewired? He used to say, Ronnie used to say that. And I don't know if you know about this, because he had told me about this. He had said that there had been an experiment where,

where, whatever, you know, researchers, whatever, brought in a bunch of, back in the 70s or 80s, they brought in a bunch of mathematicians that had been working on mathematical problems that they could not solve and they gave them LSD over the course of a few days or something and then within a week almost all of them had solved the problem that they'd been working on or he said or they had realized that they didn't have the information there was you know but they they had moved forward in some major capacity rather than being stuck right because they said the the the drug had helped them recalculate re mean it literally range their their thought process

on how they were approaching the problem they'd all said i well what i did was i started i really suddenly realized i was approaching it in the wrong way or i started approaching it from this something so when you said that about your your thing i was thinking to myself i was like fuck that sounds like sounds like something donnie was they donnie would well you know did you ever hear about the such and such experience i mean he would always it truly does help you change a perspective the the word i like to use for for what that sounds like is uh called neuroplasticity different uh psychoactive compounds mainly in the hallucinogenic family increased neuroplasticity, just kind of like how those mathematicians were able to come back to the

equation and figure it out from a new perspective. But it also increases, well, there's a huge neotropic benefit and cognitive boosting benefit as well, kind of like turkey tail, mushrooms or lions may and stuff like that, the culinary ones. What was the guy we had the, he had PTSD? When we had a guy, this was like a year, about two years ago, we had, he was on PTSD and he was, was it, was he micro dosing it? Was that, was that, was that, I feel like that was, uh, probably psilocybin mushrooms. Yeah, I think maybe that was it.

Silson's a compounder. I'm thinking of, uh, the guy who makes the documentaries. Oh, you're thinking about Seth? Yeah. No, Seth's going to jail. Yeah, Seth, by the way, Seth, we, Seths, Farrante. Yeah, gotcha. Is a guy that went to jail for L.A.

He did like 20 some odd years. Faked his own death Faked his own death Was this the gentleman that was Riding around in a bus in England Making it or my No Okay

He wasn't making it at all He'd be just selling Oh okay got you gotcha But he did he faked his up He was an under indictment And so he He faked his own death How what like with pig's blood

And no no No no Like people were unaliving themselves At this specific part in a river And it was known for it So he makes sure that a couple sees him go up to this area and then he leaves

like his clothes there or something and then he leaves a note and whatever and then he kind of sneaks off and so people report that this we saw this guy go up there he never came back down later another couple went up

and they see this stuff and they think oh my god he faked it and they literally they dragged the river and the whole thing the problem is where he jumped from he said I jumped from the other part of the river, the other side or something, or wherever the area was, he's like, it brings your body to a certain area. And he said, and they find you.

Right. He's like, they searched and searched and searched. And they never found me. He's like, so they believe within three or four days, they came back and they said, we think that this was a hoax. We think this guy is faking. Like, they figured out pretty quick. And then they caught him months later or something.

Right. And the traffic stop or some stupid shit. So it only made things worse. Yeah. Isn't that a huge felony, a federal one at that? 30 years and did 20 something he got 30 years for L I think he went to trial he's a he's a maniac what do you know the weight and then he no but you can I can send I'll send you his video yeah I would love to he talks about the experiences he talks about the whole thing I was the other

thing and then now he he recently got busted well he got out of prison he used to write for vice no way he wrote for vice well that was my dream when I was a kid wrote for vice He got out. You ever seen a white boy Rick? White boy Rick, the documentary? I didn't, but she's from Detroit and I need to watch it. So he, the documentary, he worked with, he's listed, he's not the producer, he's like an executive producer. Is a co-defendant?

No, as an executive producer for a documentary. Gotcha. So he did that. Then he started making his own documentary. He raised about half a million dollars from investors. They start making their own documentary. So he had this documentary company. he ends up getting busted for um but while he's doing this while he's raising the money he's

still trapping he's still he's moving busted for that goes gets bond i mean gets um sorry he gets probation for that gets off probation recently got caught again for pot for pot got you good and then what was the other thing and then the other day there was a video that was posted of him fighting or arguing with his girlfriend or something where he's screaming the video cameras outside of the house and he's screaming and he's yelling at i want my stuff he's screaming blah blah blah and he walks up to the door boom he kicks in the door the video gets cut off at that point so i don't know that he entered the house i think maybe he kicked the door and it went open still though probably not expecting breaking the threshold yeah of a dwelling so he's probably going to prison for sure like if you were

going to you might have got off on the moving the drugs maybe he i don't know what state it was i don't know maybe we've got a year or two maybe we've got probation again i don't know unless he told he's definitely going to the door in yeah i didn't know about that yeah i just yeah i forgot that's a b and e bro that's a that's a b yeah yeah most states don't find that funny no uh but you know he he was furious so you just tell him in the little video i was like wrong i shouldn't laugh but it's funny because i've seen that happen it sucks but it's too bad because he was well on his thing like he was well on his way. He was really kidding ass. Dude, he had a documentary companies. And he had one. He done multiple. He had a whole, we went to crime con. This is probably a year ago. And he,

he was there. We all went out to, um, dinner with a couple other people that we knew. And he had a whole whole game plan. Yeah, he definitely. He was, listen, he was, it is very on point. Very impressive. He had a whole game plan. Whether or not it was going to work out or not. I don't know. But he sure as hell seemed like he, he had it together. We've watched his documentaries. Dude, he worked for, advice. I mean, he clearly had credentials. Yeah, and he's got his calling card, of course, his white boy Rick. Right, which is huge. Yeah. Yeah. He's

he was doing it. I mean, I don't know. It seems like things are falling apart now, but you know, who knows? Damn inflation. Economies got everyone trapping again, huh? Once again, maybe, just like we were talking about during like our break, maybe it's just the thrill. Right? Yes.

I can't imagine being it. I don't know. I would think being a documentary producer would be exciting. Like, I look, I would love to be able to do that. Especially with the white boy Rick under your belt. Right. To be a part of that would be so, so cool to me. But maybe that's not enough for him.

The old thrill of the road. Some L again. Yeah, he does. Get himself reprogram. Knock the cobwebs out of there. You know what story? I thought you were going to tell with the cop and the shot glass. No.

Let's hear that one. You know why? Because that, so many people, like this was a story that was told to me by Donnie. Right. But so many people in the comment section were like, that's an urban legend, that never happened. That's a, you know, I've heard that story from other people. That didn't happen to your buddy. They would think that.

Well, but they did it so much that I thought, I did it. I could have swore that Donnie said that this is what had happened to him. But this is fucking 10, 15 years ago. Like, people were so adamant that it's, that they'd heard the story from other people. that it was an urban legend. So I'm going to tell you this story and you tell me this is what Donnie... It's not the orange juice story, right?

I believe this is what... As far as I can recall, this is what Donnie had told me happened one time. Right. In his buddy are driving to meet the angels. Okay. So they're driving in a van. To drop them off work, presumably.

Right, right. So he said the night before they stayed in a hotel. Okay. He said, we had the blotter paper and he said they had taken like eyedrop like an eye dropper or something he said you know you take it and you drop it one drop per dose he said that's a dose right based on how much the water it's mixed with the chemical whatever he said that was a dose about a hundred microns right and he'd explained too that he's like

now you can have it they could be 10 doses he said if you just have to mix it more potent he said but this is like one dose per tablet whatever correct he's like in each tablet is five bucks or 10 whatever it is 20 I don't know no it's about 5 or 10 okay so he said we're dosing it boom boom boom boom so we have a stack done He said, well, we were pulling it out of a shot glass. He is at the end of it, there's a little bit of residue. He said, it's liquid. He knock it back?

No. He said, so I sat it down. He said, well, we pack up the next morning, we pack up all of our stuff. He said, I grab it. He said, but it's completely dry now. He said, but there's a residue at the bottom. And he said, you know, you can remix that. And I could get it out again.

But he said, oh, we're taking it or whatever. He said, so I take it. I grab everything. We put everything in the van, whatever. We jump in the van. He said, I take the shock lattice and I drop it into the cup holder thing. He said, we're driving in a van. He said, and look at me. He's like, no, no, he just said, look at me. He's like, I'm on my way to a grateful dead concert. Right. I'm driving. I'm driving. We look like another guy that looks like me. He's like, like heads. Yeah, yeah. So we're driving. He said, we get pulled over by a cop. Oh, shit. Cop says, you know, he'll open, they, let me look through the van. He

opens the back doors he kind of looks around he's but the van's pretty much empty he opens a bag or two whatever he kind of looks he's like but he doesn't see anything that he recognizes right he goes and he kind of just doing a cursory kind of he doesn't search right he's kind of looking and i don't know if he he opened the back doors you maybe you looked in there but he doesn't find whatever they have yeah he said and while he's looking he go he grabs the shot glass and he goes what's this and he he said he he said he touch it he he said something like Donnie goes, it's a shock glass. He goes, we had, and he said he had something in it the night before, whatever.

He said it was benign. So it sounds, and like, oh, it's such and such. We were doing shots or whatever, I forget. And he said, the guy touches his finger and does this on his tongue. And he said, literally, he said, when he did it, he said, he and his buddy both went. Like, he's like, like, it was a reaction that I remember both of us were like, oh, my God, what did you just do? He's like, and he was like, you know, he did it. And he goes, all right.

you can go he said he dosed himself with 100 doses he said that that's how potent that was laterly bro at least i mean maybe like 70 but still that's just crazy so he said we get in the car and start driving is and i mean we race all the way there so much god we find the girls i think that maybe they had dropped this stuff whatever it was they go and they try and find the girls because i remember they found the girls and told the girls dump everything oh they found the girls on law at the concert yeah they went to the conference yeah they went to the Yeah, maybe he'd come from the concert and was going back. I don't know.

But he said, he goes back there. He said, we find the girls and we're like, dump everything. Get in the fucking cough. We just dose a fucking cop. He's like, and he goes, we don't go back to the van. He's like, the van is rented. Like, we're not going back to the van. He's like, we have to find a place somebody that will get us.

And he said, so while we're getting, finding the girls, he goes, there's tons of people here. It's not easy to find these chicks. He goes, that takes a while. Because by the time we find them and we're telling them what happened, get your shit and go. He said, we see the cops. are everywhere and there's one they've got the one cop walking around and he's all like he's

looking and he's there he's trying to ID them yeah but that's spun he's right he's they they said you could see like these guys are holding him yeah and he's like looking and so that was it he said he said we end up getting a ride or something and we get out of there and he left the van

and he said I was fucking terrified through the shot head when they jumped out with everything they took a shot glass threw it away like he's like but uh yeah we dose him he said God knows what he said let me tell you right now He said if you've been dosed You've never done it before He says it's your first time

He said you don't know what's happening Oh yeah it's a super scary experience He was going through hell I've gotten raw on my fingers before It's gnarly So that was the story that so many people It did great by the way Yeah

So the video did well But there were so many people In the comment section saying You're a line I believe that now I will make so I will take that story that he just told and I'll cut out all the

and he said and he said and this and it'll sound like Matt is telling us firsthand. I did it. Like I did this. I did that. And then all the people that have heard the story before are going to be like they're going to be in the comment section. This guy lies so much bro. He's done he's lived a thousand lives. He's so full of shit. Yeah but he never did that. But those those of us that like are tapped in know the that that's a real story bro yeah because it does

when it evaporates it does leave a crystal residue on the inside of the bile or whatever shock glass wherever you're using um so i mean it's very possible and the amount that that cop probably ingested was probably north of 50 hits you know he you and the other thing people will do is like if i just throw out a number well i'm like you know like at one point when i said they were giving that tablet i was like you know they were like whatever 20 box or 15 like people will start screaming he's lying they sell those tablets for $5

I'm just throwing out a number I don't know what they cost You all need to be easy on Matt and Kobe Well it's good Because the thing is these are These are TikToks and Instagram reels where they're not people who sit And watch a whole podcast

This is some random guy who's just scrolling Gotcha just fucking with you Well they just you know people on the internet Are just people on it But I say that I say that because like The engagement is good like good or bad like it's all good it's good well and i could see them down or you know zoning you

on the little discrepancy's like he sold the hit for 50 bucks and then later being he sold the hit for five bucks but when you're having an organic conversation yeah i don't i don't know exactly they're going for 10 or 15 or 20 but that part doesn't matter yeah and keep mind too if you're dosing maybe if the dose if there are 10 doses on each tablet then maybe they are selling them for 20 box i i don't know you know yeah oh and usually usually the rule of thumb is usually the rule is if it's your friend or family five bucks four bucks if it's a custody meaning like some rando 20 25 bucks but 10 bucks 15 but um yeah he he said they that cop probably had the best day of life that those those girls would walk around and um he said like they would he said oh

these angels he's like it's almost it's almost it's almost almost, um, uh, he was like, he said like they literally just kind of walk around and they, they say, you know, like they'll say L, L, L. You name L? L. L. Some dose doses. $5 an L, whatever the cost is, you know, L. And he's like, he's like, they're, they just walk when they say they openly do it there. And I'm like, they're not like, how do they? Because I remember when he was telling me, I was like, how did they get customers? He's like, just walk around. Yeah. He's like, they're all fam, bro. Yeah, they are. Like, it really is. Not all of them are fam.

Most of them. Right. But there's no real trouble there is what he said. You're not going to get any problems from them. So it's a community based off of love. Love hugs and good energy. But yeah, there's still some shady characters in the fam. Yeah.

There's always going to be that. What an interesting guy, though. I'd love to shake his hand. That's what I'm saying. I would, he had, I wish, I had, and I didn't, that's not even true, because I did try. He did, I remember he didn't, because we did start to write like an outline. Oh, the book.

And he stopped. He wouldn't do it. He was like, yeah, I was like, let me write an outline. I can write it without you. You know, it might not be perfect, but I can write it without you if I just get an outline. And he, and we started, and I think he was so nervous. It was no, no, no, we'll do it later. We'll do it once I finish.

Once I was like, once you finish, you're going to a halfway house. No, no, we'll still have some time. And we didn't have time, you know, we, I was working on something else. and we needed a week or two to work on the outline and it didn't happen but he had some great stories

that he could have told it would have made a great synopsis would have made a great 20 or 30 page story I don't know about the whole It sounds like it I don't know if I'm sure I could have written an entire book

but even if I just been able to turn it into a synopsis right or whatever yeah you know and I just like I said you see how my memory is like I don't know enough in detail You got a pretty good memory. Listen, do you remember the times I told,

I mentioned that story about playing risk? So Donnie was one of the guys playing risk with me at the thing. And when the guys are all yelling at each other and screaming and we were, so we were, we were, when I first got locked up, a guy told me one time, he's like, you know, because I remember, I remember, I can't do this. I can't do this. He's like, listen, he said, you're not going to believe this right now. He goes, but you're going to meet some of the most amazing people you've ever met in your life

in federal prison. True. He says, and there will be a time when you are laughing and joking with these guys, and you are going to think to yourself, there's no place I'd rather be. For a moment. Yeah. Or just a moment. And I remember I looked at him and I thought, I was like, you're fucking crazy.

That's never going to happen. But it happened. Yeah. Probably five years later, it was me and Donnie and there's like three other guys and we're playing risk. Remember how risk takes forever. You can't play two hours risk. Right. It's a 12-hour game.

It puts Monopoly to shame. And you can never, you can't sit down for 12 hours in prison with a bunch of guys from different units. So that game, each game would last days. Oh, we had a chart. You know, you have so many people in Bulgaria. You got 12 this. You got 14 armies here. You got this.

So we would go and somebody would check it out and set up the whole board, whatever. The point is that we're sitting there one day. We're ordering sodas. You know, they'll be the soda guy. Right, right, right. We're ordering soda. And we're, hey, give them, get some coffee. Make a burrito.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can breathe. Get it over here. And so we got our food and we're sitting there. We've been playing for an hour. Drinking a Cadillac. And like, you know, Donnie has a deal with this guy. Todd, don't. And if you promise not to invade me here, I won't, I won't invade.

The game's getting deep. Right. You got, we got, what do they call them? Alliances. So some guys are alliances. Some guys have, we have an agreement. We, I can fight you here, here, but I will know. not invade you here, but I need to move my

armies, but you have to promise. Okay, so now we have a pass right. And so we're sitting there one day and suddenly it's his, this guy's turn to say it's Donnie's turn and he has an agreement not

to invade like Alaska or something. And he takes, like he has a good spin and he takes all of his this guy, and the other guy by the way, the guy in Alaska has moved all of his troops out. All right, he's like, we're hit. Donny takes all of his troops and puts them, boom, like right into Russia.

And he's like, what are you doing? He's like, bro, I'm sorry. I mean, I can't go into here and I can't hear. I'm stuck. I, the only place, he's like, we have an agreement. And he's like, I know, and I feel bad, bro. What the fuck? So they're screaming.

And the whole time, this whole thing is happening when they're coming up with this agreement, we're, I don't want them to invade me. So I'm going, you can't trust this motherfucker. are you serious? He's a drug dealer. You're a con man. What do you know? I know drug dealers.

It's like you're a fraudster. Yeah, exactly. So we're screaming. And so sure enough, like he invades. But we were screaming and laughing so hard. And I had that moment. I remember thinking,

there was nowhere. Like, this is a great group of guys. Isn't that crazy? Nowhere I'd rather be. And in last, it doesn't stay, but it does.

No, but you have those moments. moments. Yes. Yes. And that was one of those moments. And when I had that moment, I remember immediately it was like, it was like deja vu. Right. Like it hit me. And I remember the conversation from five years ago. The guy saying that moment's going to happen. You know, I can tell you right now, we were leaning on the rail. On the top tier. We were on the top tier, leaning on the rail. I was in Marshall's custody. I was in Union City jail in the Marshall's custody, though, in Atlanta. And we're sitting there and I'm leaning and I'm and I can remember.

Remember the guy who was telling me that. Wow. And I just remember. And that moment hit me and I thought, you know, that's a really, that's a very interesting story you just brought up. Because there are those moments, whether you're just laughing with your celly, telling stories, or playing a good game of Pinochle or, you know, watching a movie with the fellas, where you guys are just laughing.

And it really does feel like you're in a garage with your family at a barbecue sign. I mean, it really does feel like that. It's crazy. But, you know, doesn't last. You wake up that next day or whatever. And you're like, oh, there's a white brick wall right. Oh, I woke up for 10 years. And my first thought by waking up for 10 years was a fuck, I'm still in prison.

Right. What about this? When you have a dream that you're in prison and you wake up in prison, that's the best. Have you ever had those? Yeah, I've talked about that before. Oh, it's the worst. It took me about about three, two to three years before. I stopped dreaming about the outside and I you know you have like a year or so conversion right all

my dreams started being just about prison because keep in my night I did 13 years yeah so after about three or four years you only dream about being in prison and so then I'm in prison dreaming about nothing but prison dude and it's you do not wake up feeling rested after those you're like you're like oh I'm waking up then you see the wall you see yourself and you're like oh my fucking god you know just spent the whole night doing this now i'm waking up doing it it sucks man i'm happier you're out brother that's that's pretty crazy um out of curiosity in the feds so you guys don't have TVs at all in yourselves right no not yourself okay so that was a big difference for the state we had TVs like little clear plastic ones wow i would never leave my there's no reason

leave the cell. Right. Well, the reason I bring it up is because I feel like it does keep the violence down to a certain degree. Oh, absolutely. I've said that over and over again. The TVs are, they're babysitters. Right. Like, they were always threaten us to take away the TV. I'm taking away for a week, but two days later they give it back to you. Now in the feds, y' all do like the white guys TV, the Mexicans TV. It's like that, right? Okay. Yeah, we had the cracker. The white guys TV room was the cracker box. The top 10 country music songs, that's what we used to watch on Saturday. That shit was funny

I don't know if it's I think it was I want to say it was Sunday or Sunday Yeah Oh listen they watch horrible programs They watch cops They watch um you know And They make it and afraid Alaskin bush family

You know gold rush Gold Rush They watch gold rush so much I got into Gold Rush Right Where I was like God you know I like Parker Yeah That's funny What's the other one they would watch

God, what's the guys with the ducks? Duck Dynasty. Oh, yeah, Duck Dynasty. Yeah, they would watch, um. It's a white boy shit in there for sure. Uh, what was, uh, American Idol? Yeah. That was, and these are grown men watching American Idol arguing about it.

For real. Getting in fights. That's just funny. Yeah. So what are you doing? What now? So, um, now, man, I, uh, wait, wait, where did you meet your wife? Uh, I met her in Denver or just south of Denver.

I figured that. Yeah. Do you have a little more specifics? Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not like, you know, I met her at some event overseas. I met her on a dating app, better on Tinder. Is it two out of three? Is it two out of three marriages or relationships are based on, or is it three out of five? Right now?

Right now, dating out. I believe that. I would say three. I mean, I would say it's the norm. It's more, more than not. Um, yeah, I mean, we, we, we, we met and, you know, it's crazy. I remember sitting in, in the joint, in my bunk, just daydreaming. And all I wanted was just a job to work, a roof to lay my head under, and a good girl and a dog, man.

That's all I wanted in prison. And sure enough, um, yeah, I met her and she saved my life. she's a a good woman bro um you know Midwest cow from Michigan she's worked her whole life and yeah tiny she is she's tiny little thing yeah but how tall are you six six one on a good day five one five two yeah yeah um so and so well so what are you doing for for work so yeah I mean like I said I had wrenched on cars I'd done construction but when we moved to the town we live in, which I won't say, I got a job on a ranch. So I'm just working on a ranch, man, five days a week, do my thing.

I still trade crypto, you know, still do my thing. But, uh, no, like Yellowstone. What, the area? The ranch, ranch life? The ranch life. Oh, oh, oh, dude, the ranch life is fucking awesome. It's fun, man. That's Yellowstone.

Hey, oh, shit. I live in Yellowstone. I get to, you know, milk cows, feed chicken. feed horses, ride horses, they get to build stuff. I mean, I'm still doing construction. I'm still doing other stuff on the ranch, but only when those projects come along. So the rest is driving tractors, operating skid steers,

mini excavators, cleaning the bay, you know. My wife would love a way. But it's a good life, man. It's fresh air. There's no, you know, it's nice, man. It really is. For my mind, my mind. But the pay isn't extraordinary.

You know, I'm still just a ranch hand. But I'm grateful every day. For our future, like when we have a kiddo or whatever, the area we live in is far better than Denver. Right. I'm excited about that. But yeah, man, ultimately, I'm trying to, you know, get in a house soon. Obviously, one day maybe start a business. I'm more, I kind of like the idea of buying a business that's already running well and just operating.

that. But yeah, man, that's where we're at. I stay away from hard drugs. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor if you like the video. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Please consider joining our Patreon. It's $10 a month. We put Patreon exclusive content. Also, do you have like a YouTube or anything like that? Yeah, I got a YouTube. It's called More Than a Number. And if you want to look up my music, I make music under No Face. My Instagram's O-HM underscore No Face. We're going to put all of those contacts in the description box and click on them, go there, subscribe, follow, do all the things that, you know, you should do or want to do or whatever.

Really appreciate it. You're watching. Thank you very much. See you.