Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Harsh Aftermath of Murder Scenes | Laura Spaulding

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Laura spaulding with @Crime Scene Cleaning tells her story and experiences with cleaning up crime scenes.

People are so cruel, too, like some of the shit that I've seen them do to one another. It's just brutal, you know, and you can tell the hatred in a person by the way that they kill somebody. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I'm doing a, it's not a true crime thing. It's just kind of a true crime podcast or an interview with Lord. Laura Spalding, and she runs a, she runs Spalding, Decom. Decon. Decon. Decon, and it's a, it's a crime scene.

Cleanup. Yeah. Crime scene cleanup. But she's got a super interesting story, and so we're here, and I'm going to be interviewing her today. Well, you were born, were you born in Kansas City? Did you say Kansas? Yeah, ironically.

Okay. Yeah. So where were you? I'm 49, so born in Kansas City, and then, um, moved around every couple years right dad worked for the feds okay what do you do for the DEA oh okay yeah yeah DEA and um moved around all the time went to college at Tennessee University of Tennessee okay first place that hired me uh took me back to Kansas City so work there in law enforcement okay uh what'd you do and uh so you know started out of patrol and stuff and then

18 months into it, I went undercover and worked in narcotics. Can I ask, why, why did you want to go into law enforcement just because of your dad? Like, is that something you always wanted to do, or do you get to that point where it's like, I don't know what I'm going to do? You know, I think it was something that I viewed as fun, you know, different every day, exciting, no monotony. I'm not a sit-in-a-desk cubicle person. Right.

And I thought, you know, that it would be. Good time, and it's very diverse, right? So if you don't like narcotics, you can work in homicide, you can work in robbery. So there's a lot of potential there. Not financially, any potential at all. But so kind of that's how I did it. So I was the first woman there in the unit to be in undercover narcotics. And it was eye-opening, to say the least, street-level.

We're talking street-level type narcotics. Yep, buying. not buying you know five 10 pounds we're buying street level crack methamphetamine weed at the time not not much weed mostly crack and methamphetamine but you didn't have like any other than being a patrol officer like you didn't have any real experience nothing like that like you grow up what like normal police like yeah just normal middle class suburbia not exposed to that at all um so it was it was it was pretty eye-opening. You know, I was in an all-black neighborhood. Right. So I kind of stuck out

like a sore thumb. And, uh, especially being the only female. But everybody I was working with in the unit was white. So it was like, man, they're, um, like, that's, that's a 50%. They figure you're a white guy. You're probably a cop anyway. Yeah. You're already a cop. Yeah. So, but their answer to that was, you know, they could grow out their beards and look scraggly and all this bullshit. And it's like, it's a superficial thing, but that's not something I could obviously do. So I had to get pretty creative with a persona and what I was going to develop myself into to not be looked at as a cop. Right.

So when I was doing vice and the prostitution stuff, contrary to popular belief, the worse you look, the nastier street hooker type thing, the more money you make. As opposed to what people think like, you know, escort services, dressing nice with, you know, stilettos and all that it didn't fucking work that way uh you know we wore dirty ass clothes i put um coconut oil in my hair to make it look like you had to take a shower in a couple yeah take it a shower and i use this stuff called blackout i don't know if you've ever seen that it looks like a bottle of nail polish and you paint it on your teeth and it looks like your teeth are missing so it's blackout right so i would do it every kind of fourth or fifth tooth to look like

I was a toothless, greasy hooker. Right. And, you know, that. And they're lining up. They're lining up. Yeah. It was crazy the amount of dudes pulling up on their lunch break with their beemers and their kids car seat in the back. Asked for a blow job.

You know, I got an FBI agent on duty in his FBI vehicle on his lunch break. And he was like 60-some. So it's insane. Like, everybody's thinking, yeah. I'm sorry. They faces Connor makes, it's like, he's just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just people have this perception of, oh, only the dirty, lonely guys, look for hookers. And it's like, fuck, no, it's everybody.

Rich, poor, middle class, whatever. Yeah, guys are scum back in general. So what does that make you think about? Like, did you have a certain kind of image of what guys were? And then this happens, you're like, wow, these guys are just derelicks. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was like 20. Includes you guys.

Three, yeah, exactly. I was like 23 years old. You know, I didn't know what to think. And, you know, I had kind of the same perception. Oh, this is going to be just fucking, you know, blue collar scumbags coming home from their roofing jobs. And I could have been more wrong about who it was and the diversity of who it was. Well, wasn't it, oh gosh, what was the guy's name one time? He was huge, too.

He was in four weddings and a funeral. Was it Hugh Grant? Hugh Grant, like, when picked up, like, a skanky-looking, like, you're... Street Hooker, yeah. You are a multi-millionaire, famous, good-looking guy. Yeah. And he figures, eh, let me swing by here and tap some, some skanky-looking hooker. It's just like, what are you thinking?

Isn't that insane? Yeah. It's... It's more common than you think, and it totally changed my perception on prostitution and, you know, they were targeting the Johns, obviously. and it's a supply and demand issue. Just fucking regulate it. Yeah.

You know? It's just make it legal and regular. You're never going to stop it. It's pointless. And they would give these dudes $500 tickets with the court date and just let them go. Well, you know, I was going to say, how much more money would you make if you just charge the girls? Tested them, charge them where they say, hey, boom, I got to, here's my card. If you want to know that I've been tested and here's my card.

Right. You know, then you'd make a ton of, it's like marijuana. Marijuana. Exactly. tax the shit out of it. Right. And now you just, how much have you cut down on on everything else from, you know, the beatings and murders? I was going to say prisons and the arrest and all the money associated with having to, you know, and then you can, well, it's just, it's the same thing. You know, you could actually take that money and now you could have, you know, rehab clinics

and whatever. Totally. You know, kind of like Amsterdam or something along those lines. Well, there's some, there isn't there a, maybe one county in Nevada that, that regulates it? It's not actually in Vegas. Like it's, you have to drive like 50 miles out. outside of the county where we're county branch and all that kind of stuff yeah so uh it's clearly working for them but uh it's just uh you just don't want to be the policy it's hard to be the politician that votes for that and get reelected yeah because they're hypocritical yeah middle class america doesn't want to believe that no but they're buying them right they just don't want to put it out same thing with marijuana right they don't they don't want to probably why that that's probably

why the the actual it's just because they know it's so prevalent yeah they don't like we can't we don't throw these guys in jail yeah let's just hit them for five 500 bucks on a court date, embarrass them a little bit. But let's face it, if you really thought this was a serious, huge problem, well, then these guys would get in six months. Of course, exactly. Of course, that was so funny, too, is like, when you do something like that, people don't even realize, like, people like, oh, he only got 60 days or six months,

but get up and go to jail for six months, your stuff, everything's gone. Yeah. Like, that's devastating. Yeah. You might as well give me five years. Yeah. You get six to six months. You're done.

Well, most of them, their wives didn't even find out, or their girlfriends. because they literally got a ticket in their hand and they were home for dinner. They didn't miss a beat. There was a thing on the BOP in the Bureau of Prisons where guys were getting a shot if they were caught having sex in prison,

they were writing shots and mailing them home to their families. So that you're, this was when HIV was just kind of coming out. This is in like the 90s. What is writing shots mean? Oh, I'm sorry, it's a disciplinary action. Oh, okay.

This man, you know, this inmate was caught in a sexual act with another inmate, and then they would send it home to, like, their family so that they would know, by the way, your husband went to jail, your boyfriend went to jail for five years. He's getting out, and while he was inside. He might have HIV. Right, right. They don't do that anymore, but that happened for years. I think labor results aren't probably through lawsuits.

He's been known to cure insecurity just with his laugh. His organ donation card lists his charisma. his smile is so contagious vaccines have been created for it he is the most interesting man in the world I don't typically commit crime but when I do

it's bank fraud stay greedy my friends support the channel join Matthew Cox's Patreon so what happened with the then you went undercover did you go from that to narcotics

yeah so I was kind of moonlighting with VICE every, you know, once in a while doing four or six hour shifts because it's overwhelming. It's like having the, you know, 7-Eleven and telling everybody it's freak ass. That's how fucking the lines were. It was insane. It was like nothing I've ever seen before. So there was like four of us, two of us on one corner, two of us on another corner,

and we couldn't keep up. Just people pulling in one to buy drugs? A fucking drive-thru. No, the sex. Oh, okay. I thought you were talking about the narcotics. No, so then I kind of segued over to narcotics, and that was same thing, you know, fish in a barrel. It was just, it's simple.

You know, you're going in the projects and you're buying, you know, crack or methamphetamine and then trying to build a case against somebody. Or, you know, sometimes you would do some street level bust at the time, buy and bust, buy bust. We called it by bust. but most of the time it's it's at a case level you know you're buying repetitively from the same person so you're buying leaving they don't even know they don't have no idea a case being built on them no and by the time that they get arrested that they've sold to probably 200 people they have no idea who it is right and i never had to really testify to protect my identity um so i mean when you go in those neighborhoods it's you ever pull up and and they go nah she's a cop she's a cop yeah they did

at the at the onset when I was kind of really developing a persona right so um I have uh an aunt and uncle that were born mentally challenged and they have a certain way of speaking and I was so used to it as a kid that I was like that's it the grease in the hair the blackout in the teeth talk like you're mentally challenged and that was my persona and it fucking worked after that not a single person questioned my identity they just thought I was you know some fucking loser on the on the streets another homeless mentally challenged person that the fucking government threw away you know essentially so you're not drive are you driving up in a car sometimes sometimes in a car and these cars are pieces of shit just shit that they seized

so I'd rotate him right and um sometimes I'd go with a partner and uh we would just kind of do to get But I tried to stay away from the white guys just because that was kind of an easy beacon for a cop. I was to say, I read an article when I was locked up. I read an article that was, have you ever heard of Don Diva magazine? No. Well, there was a, was it, Don Diva, there was another, Maxim. I think it was a maximum. Oh, okay.

It's not around anymore. Oh, I don't think it is. Anyway. I don't think so. This was back when they had actual physical magazines. And there was a girl that was a professional, like she had a boyfriend, right? She was a black chick, and she was a black chick, and her boyfriend was a drug dealer. He got arrested and went to prison, federal prison.

She went to the DEA and said, look, I want to work on cases to get him out of prison. This happens a lot, right? It's called a third party rule. And they were like, look, the problem is he went to trial. We're not going to, we want him to do the 20 years. Like we're not, no matter what you do, we're not going to let that credit go to reducing his sentence. It's not going to happen. Okay.

So they said, but if you are willing to do this, we'll pay you. Yeah, snitch. It was a professional snitch. Right. She would fly around. They would literally, the DEA came in. They were like, we're going to fly you here for a week. And they'd give her $3,000 or $4,000 for a week.

And it's funny because she was in college. She had like a gold tooth. Uh-huh. And she was raised in like in the projects, but she's also smart. Yeah. So they were like, and they go, she could switch. Like she had some tattoos. She had the gold tooth.

old tooth she said so she could pull up in a car and all the drug dealers want to fuck her like they're ready to they're dying to sell to her and hit her up and they were like so she could pull in a car get and just she'd build a bunch of get a bunch of buys in one week and then jump on a plane fly back with her money and it's like every every month or two they're flying her back all over the country they she was like a professional she did for years yeah and eventually she stopped doing it wow she never got made no and this is a big thing they were the deep they interviewed like the DEA agent in the in the article

and he was saying the problem was they could sniff us out she fits in like we can't we they were like it's very difficult to pull in a neighborhood cold and have them trust you and sell you something they can just tell this person's not a drug addict yeah this person

doesn't fit the mold or the you know but Jay said she was amazing at it so I mean it takes a certain talent it does but you know we had a bunch of snitches that worked with us and stuff and that would do the introductions and get us into places that we normally wouldn't be able to get into. So they trust you.

Yeah. But, you know, it was one day, I was like, I had to pay her. And I'm like, she's fucking making more than I am. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? And I'm the one that's at danger here. I changed my tune, though. I found out a couple years ago that she was murdered.

So, yeah, they finally probably made her. And, but she was, you know, living in the projects. she wasn't a drug user she was just like this is more money than I'll fucking make working at dollar general that's how this girl was the great thing about her was she had never been arrested

they said a lot of the professional sisters they said they've been arrested multiple times so if she had to go and testify they were like she can get on the stand they'd say well what do you do right now well this is what I do full time oh so you're a professional this well I do this because I'm in college full time it's like ah

have you ever been arrested you know, no, are you a drug here? No, oh, there was just like, she was perfect. Yeah, so she made bank, I'm sure. She was articulate, and she could do the switch back and forth from, you know, being great. Did she have to testify a lot or do they protect her identity? I think she had testified once or twice, like she was where guys were going to court. Wow.

And she did actually, I want to say, I feel like, I can't remember the article related, but I want to say that she did testify because I remember them saying the great thing about her is She doesn't have a drug history. So if she has to testify. So to me, I feel like she testified. I don't remember exactly. But they were like... She's ideal.

It's very difficult to find someone like her. But that was also why they were protecting. They were flying her out of the state. And it was the DEA. So it was national. You were a snitch and you're in a small city. Like, that's dangerous. Yeah, very dangerous.

Yeah. I wasn't in a small city, but I was required to live in the city that I worked, which posed... Yeah, that's a dangerous. some danger to me and uh it just became one of those things where i was like what the fuck am i doing right i'm putting my life at risk for 40 000 a year and this is never going to make a dent on the drug trade like who are you fucking kidding here right you know um us spending three six hundred dollars a day they're gonna do shit yeah so it was one of those things i'm like what the fuck am i doing and even if you went even if you went through and you picked up every

drug dealer in that city and remove them all at once within a month they've completely been replaced and it's up and running again within two months it's exactly the same way and you can change a fucking thing exactly except for spent a whole bunch of money right created a lot of chaos taking maybe taking some drugs on the street for a few weeks it's it's a waste of money for the government waste of our money for the government to put money towards stopping drugs it's never going to happen it really is and it's uh it like you said someone will be replaced literally 10 minutes later right it's fucking it's never going to go away you know what you know what's funny is like because i mean obviously i was you know i was locked up and like and i know people that are on drugs right and i've seen

you know the tragedy of the of the whole situation and i've actually like never done any drugs like i've never smoked pot i'm actually never smoked a cigarette well never drank and my father was an alcoholic and i just at a young age i was like yeah i'm not going to I'm not going to do that. Good for you. Like, he's a great guy when he was sober. And then when he was drunk, he was such a scumbag. And I was like, well, I'm a borderline asshole.

Yeah. Sober all the time. Like, this isn't, I know this is not the way to go. Right. But having been through the system, it's like, absolutely, like, it wouldn't be a great situation to have drugs legalized because there would be, you see more drug addicts probably out. But in the end, there's no perfect, there's no perfect, there's no perfect, there's no perfect, there's no perfect solution. The best solution is legalize it, pay for it, open some rehab centers for those people that want to get help, and at least you can make enough money that you can clean it up enough that it's safe. Well, and it's kind of survival of the fittest, too.

You get rid of the ones that are never going to get sober. They're never going to stop it. Just give them easier access, speed up the fucking process. I mean, let's be honest. But I mean, honestly, too, think about all the violence that's associated with it too. That's true. You get rid of a ton of violence. Yeah, you would.

So what, so how long did, did that go on until? I did that for a year and a half, two years. That was a year and a half, two years too long. Right. And I was like, I got to come up with a fucking business here. And we, we shared an office with, the undercovers were in the office with the, we called them Snootak, Street Narcotics Tactical Unit.

So when we would go build our case, they would run the search warrants. So we, it was like, a big giant bullpen and uh every time we had a meth case they were fucking suiting up like space suits right with fucking respirators and all this stuff and i'm like wait what are you guys doing oh well we're going to bust a meth lab okay so it's okay for my ass to go in there with nothing right and buy it but you fuckers get all fucking suited up and protected right you see what i'm saying Like, come on, man.

You know, so it's a matter of time before, you know, I gave birth to a kid with four fucking heads because I'm going into all these goddamn meth labs, right? So that's when it was another trigger for me that I'm like, this is, this is not sustainable. Right. There's no way. If you go bad at some point.

Yeah, this is going to, there's a time limit on everything. That's why nobody lasts in narcotics for more than a couple years. Because you either get made or you're forced to do something you didn't want to do. Okay. Yeah. I'm missing something. Forced to do something such as what? Like crack.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you were putting a position where... My partner was put in a position where he was like, smoke the crack or you're going to get a bullet in your head. Right. Yeah. So he smoked a crack.

So you're going through this whole thing and you're already thinking, how do I exit? How do I get out of that? Not just the unit or not just the whole thing. The whole thing. Like there's just no, there's no upward momentum for the... I don't. want my life to take this trajectory where I'm

no way. I'm a police officer for the rest of my life. But yeah, but people do and people Yeah, to each is on. But you know, I'm not into being in poverty for the rest of my life. So it's, it ain't going to happen for me. So I'm racking my brain and I quickly realize I have no fucking

transferable skills to get a job anywhere else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like that or security. I can buy dope. You can be a security guard. Like, I mean, there's no like, there's no private people, you know, buying dope. No.

Well, there are, but. Yeah. Yeah, not for salary. So I was, you know, just trying to figure out what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And I'm like, fuck it. I think I have to go back to school and get my MBA. I've got to diversify.

I've got to get away from this because I'm essentially branded myself, right? All I had done was law enforcement. Right. So I needed to kind of diversify myself. So I'm in, you know, my getting my MBA at night while I'm working during the day. And I'm meeting all these people that are, you know, fucking bankers and financial advisors and all this other bullshit. And I'm like, I don't fucking want to do that. And I go to work one night and this woman asked me when we're coming back to clean up the blood from her son that was

murdered. And I was like, oh, we don't do that. She's like, well, then who does? And I'm like, I had no fucking idea. Nobody had ever asked me that, ironically. I'm working in the worst neighborhoods, tons of homicides, tons of suicides, and no one had ever asked me that. So I started asking around, and everybody basically said, we don't know and we don't care. Right. It's not our fucking problem. We go in, we investigate it, we're out. So I started kind of researching it and looking into it, and I'm like, okay, I can do this as a side gig.

Let's see where this goes. Right. So it just started out kind of as a side gig, cleaning up crime scenes on my off time. what was the first one you did like i mean did you go out and get some business cards set up a website or just you just yeah i mean i had no money right as you can imagine i was making 40 grand a year i had a roommate so i couldn't even pay my bills um so i found this training school in dallas texas and i called this fucking guy up and he was basically doing what i'm doing but teaching other people how to do it too so i said hey i want to come to your training school and he said okay it's 2 500

for a week and I'm like fuck that's all I had in my account right literally all my savings so I'm like fuck it I'll take my only week of vacation the last bit that I have in there and I went to his training school in Dallas I was in Kansas City so went too far and I met these two guys in there there was like 20 people in there and I met these two guys that were from Oklahoma and they were partners and they're like we're going to start doing crime scene too we're nurses by day so they only work like three days a week right and i said well how did you get the money to do your startup and they're like we walked into a bank and asked them for an sba business loan and they gave it to us so i'm like no fucking way dude literally gives me his exact business plan tells me take it

change the name on it and go do the same thing i did that i got denied at every bank i went into okay yeah because i don't have a dick right i was gonna say i was Are these two white guys? Yeah. Two, okay. Yeah, two white guys. So I call them up and I go, dude, I did exactly what you did. And he's like, I don't get it.

And I'm like, of course you don't. So I go into a fifth bank and I lied to him. I say, hey, I need a home equity loan. I need new windows on my fucking house. And they're like, okay, give me a check for 15 grand. Right. I'm like, well, that was fucking easy. Why didn't I do that?

You know, the beginning. But it's that extra, I had to lie to them to get them to do it you know what I'm saying but whatever I don't have any fucking regrets I paid them off whole bit first job 15 grand nice double homicide so how did you did you I mean I went door to door I printed my own shitty little business cards that had the perforations on the bottom right I had the worst website on the planet I don't no one found it ever right I had no idea what I was doing and I just went door to door apartments funeral homes hotels people that you knew had had no i just fucking went to everyone in an area particular area on

every day off that i had would knock on the door hey if you ever had you know horrible strategy it's horrible but it worked right it worked because kind of the word of mouth got out and i couldn't afford to hire anybody so i was doing all my own shit right i was doing the marketing oh five oh okay so social media is just kind of well no she's yeah i guess it's just kind of well no Yeah, I guess it's just kind of starting out, right? I don't remember there being a YouTube because I remember on my first job, there was a ton of demo, and I was like, how do I do this? I remember thinking, how do I do this? And there was never a YouTube, so I'm like, you know what I need to do is just basically hire somebody part-time to help me that has skills I don't have, which was construction.

Construction? Yeah, because you have to take out baseboards, pull up tile flooring, replace. sub-flooring, like there was, there's a lot involved. And that was something that I was like, oh, shit, I didn't realize that. Right. You know, if you've never taken somebody subfloor before, you probably should learn how to do it before you do it, yeah. So when you take that, are you replacing it?

Yeah, you're supposed to. So when you walk back out, it looks like... It never even happened. Oh, okay. So the first place, 15 grand. Yeah, double homicide, 15 grand. And then the next place was... like a salvation army where people yeah i guess just lower income people live and the guy

died from whatever and decomposed in his recliner and uh in the salvation army yeah it was one of those not the where the homeless people live but it's like a transition almost like a halfway house yeah yeah i know i mean i was in the their salvation army runs them but i was in the halfway house it was a um a goodwill but it's the same thing right so that you have your own little like apartment right that's furnished well i didn't but yes there are people that have yeah and there's actually i think the one here they actually have like a bunch of single wide trailers and stuff in the back oh okay well this was like a high rise okay so so how he said how long did he sit there before they he was probably there for a week or two so i don't think there's it was independent

living no bed checks no no bed checks there so and he was older so it's probably just you know heart attack or something like that and he just was there but i was thinking how the fuck am i going to get this recliner by myself out well at least you show up after the body's gone right oh yeah okay yeah i couldn't show up what the body was there did it yeah not that there's not a bunch of stuff left over yeah you know you get part of their brain and maggots and all that kind of stuff there but that was the second job and then um how'd you get that recliner out you just take it apart you know i created, we were talking about this yesterday, I created, I took a furniture dolly and I slapped a piece of plywood on top of it and then I put some piping around it and screwed it in and it was like a

dolly cart. Right. And I put it on there and pushed it out and just did that. I still have it to this day. That's why we're talking about it. We were reminiscing about the good old days of moving dead guys on a furniture tolly what was the next one or next interesting one at that point the department gave me an ultimatum and said hey we were all right with this but now we're not it was a second job after the second job i had only been doing it maybe a month or two at the point at that point it was a control thing right they they wanted to be able to not only control my income because we weren't allowed to work off duty, they were controlling everything. So I was like, well, I'm not working off duty because this isn't in a law enforcement capacity. So that's why they

initially approved it. And then after that, they were like, you know, we changed our mind. And I was like, yeah, I did too. Fuck you. I quit. So I was out. I literally put all my shit in a garbage bag and I was like, I'm out. And then I'm like, well, wait, why am I fucking staying here then? I hate living in the Midwest. So I packed my shit up, rented my house out, and moved to Florida. okay after just a few jobs yep like that's that's another gutsy move yeah to move across just to pack your shit up and just move like that's already are you married no single nothing no kids no nothing so I had no obligations other than that house right um that mortgage and I put some tenants in there and uh it was one of those things where if I don't find a fucking tenant whatever

I'll short sale it for a close I didn't care I had to get out of that shit hole right And I moved to Florida where I went to high school So I still had friends here They let me stay with them Found a job in sales Teach me how to sell And then I did both of those things And then you started

Did you go to the police, local police department? Yeah, I went everywhere, man What do they say when you walk in and say hey, here's what I do? Thanks, but no thanks No, were there other people there? They were doing it? No, because the cops aren't allowed to refer Any for-profit company

Okay So unless you're saying, hey, I've got free clothes for everyone, they ain't going to fucking, they don't care. So what about opening up a non-for-profit? Hey, we do this. You can still charge for an option. Yeah, you can. There was just the regulations for it were way beyond my capacity at that point. Okay.

So I'm like, okay, so I pivot. Right. Do the same thing that I did that work for me in Kansas City. The apartments, the hotels, assisted living. Of course, there's a shit ton of 55 and older communities here. Yeah. So I went to all those. And then the phone starts ringing.

Because, of course, I didn't have any money for a website or, you know, any type of ad words or traction or anything like that. So I was kind of doing them both, building them. And then in 2008, two years later, it was enough to where I could quit my day job. Okay. But now you're doing stuff, it's not just like retirement homes now. it's it's for the police like they don't call you but so the the victim's families or landlords or owners of what they call up as a hey listen there was a yeah there was an issue and you know this is what happened we need somebody to come clean us up right but the cops don't no they still

won't to this day yeah but okay so and you don't contact these people do you they're just finding you yeah i mean there's no way for me to know that if you had a suicide in your house well it could be i was going to say newspapers they don't post it suicides what about police reports how do i get them how do i know where to go i mean can't you go to you can't i mean it's public information right well the the problem is is it's so dynamic right it's happening so quickly right you can't wait two weeks no can't wait two weeks and if it's an open case they're not going to give you the no they're going to wait till it's of course it could be months yeah so So the sense of urgency is there, and the way to get that is when people are freaking out,

who the fuck's going to clean this up? Yeah. Where are they going? The internet. Yeah, yeah. So I had to basically suck it up and bite the bullet and put all my marketing efforts on the internet. Okay. Any cases that stay out to you?

Yeah. Oh, God. There's just, there's so many. And, you know, the thing is, is I've been doing this 17 years now, and there's no two that are ever the same. Right. Which is crazy. And, you know, the suicides are always sad in some cases, but a lot of suicides are because they've been diagnosed with maybe a terminal illness, and they're just like, fuck it. Which can't say that I blame them, right?

Who wants to rot, rot away, you know? Who wants to live like that? So, and then there's some where, you know, it's like a 16-year-old kid, and it's like, fuck, those are heavy. Are the, so the parents call you and you come in and you, and I was just thinking I had a kid on here who, um, um, um, he was a kid. He said, I was 30 years old. Uh, his name, uh, was Ethan. And Ethan had gotten a phone call from his mother. And she said, and he said, we grew up with guns. Yeah. And he said, you know, he got a phone call from his mom. His mom goes, Ethan, you know, you got to come home right now. Your brother shot himself. And he thought, yeah, he thought, I thought accidental discharge. Like, shot. He was like, oh, is he okay? And she goes, well, I don't think he's breathing. And he was like, oh, shit. So he drives home and he walks in.

And he said, I mean, he was my brothers. He said, skull, brains, everything. He said, bodies on there are all over the back wall. Yeah. And he said, he was just like, he said, half his head's missing. Like, he was like, he stuck a gun, I guess, in his mouth and blew his brains out or maybe the side of his head or something. And they had no idea it was coming. No.

And that's the, the odd part is I can't. tell you how many people say we have no idea why or you know we didn't see this coming and it and it makes me wonder did you not see it or did you not look right because it rarely in my opinion happens we just ignore the the the warning signs like you didn't yeah or you're so busy in your day to day right you don't realize that your your kids suffering and suffering in silence which is even worse. So the homicide, what happens with the homicides like there's? Yeah, you know, we, the cleanups for the homicides are about 12, 13% of what we do.

So thank God they're not a lot. Not that homicides are down by any means. What that means is essentially it's happening in public places, streets, parking lots, things like that, that they're not getting cleaned up. so you have to remove so if somebody gets shot somebody shoots themselves to the head or does whatever or this decomposition over the course of a week or so so you're taking up like anything that you're

what happens with the walls like are you just repainting the walls we'll clean them and we'll clean them disinfect them if there's bullet holes in the wall you know we'll pull the shell casing out of there repair the dry wall and you know paint over it make it look like it never it never happened we had one recently um well not recently maybe a year or two ago and he was a veteran so a lot of veterans are coming back with fucked up shit and um he went into his bedroom he set out a ton of food for his cat and water and he wrote never forget on the wall

and then shot himself there and uh You know, the never forget part wasn't, you know, a biohazard. We didn't have to clean that. But I'm like, I don't want them to fucking see that. So I washed it off and painted over it. I found some extra paint and painted over it. And then, you know, we ended up having to take his floor part of his wall. It went into his walk-in closet.

Like, he just laid against the wall and shot himself. So, of course, it, you know, liquid takes the path of least resistance. So it's going to find its way. um i had i don't know if this just made me think of that um so there was a guy named a derrick nolan that i wrote a book about and um he was in prison for a pain clinic uh he was running he uh his father this is his father when he was younger i think he was like three years old his mother was having an affair his father father ends up in the middle of the night.

She didn't come home. Two o'clock or something in the morning, puts him in his little underroos. Yeah. You know, brings him in the truck, puts him in the truck, drives to the guy's house, walks the son, him with his father at two in the morning, walks up to the window, sees his mother laying in bed or laying on the couch with this guy naked. Father kicks in the front door, grabs a knife, and stabs the boy. friend to death and then she runs he chases her down stabs her to death in front of there in the driveway takes derrick drops him off at um was he just fucking screaming and he's he's a baby at that point he's he said i just he said i remember driving off staring at my mom and thinking he was like

i knew i was never going to see her again like i knew i knew kind of what had happened like i understood because I remember it but you know he's he's a dark guy I bet I don't want to say kind of dark disturbed you know a very serious well actually he laughs all the time but

anyway I've got a dark sense of humor so he gets dropped off at his uncles his uncle raises him his father turns himself in goes to trial in New York in New York I want to say New York State is found

is found not guilty due to insanity for like two years goes to some hospital mental hospital gets out starts his life over again

marries another woman they have two kids Derek's stepbrother and this is now Derek's like 20 something years old 21 22 years old the new stepmother

decides she wants to get a divorce the father goes goes, when he served with a divorce papers, he goes and he gets a shotgun. And when she comes home, he walks into the, I want to say she was in the master bedroom closet, walking closet. He walked in with a shotgun and shot her in the head and blew her. Holy shit. Then walks out to the cabana by the pool, waits for the police. And when the police come, he pulls his little 38 or 22 out.

Shoots himself. shoots himself the bullet goes through his eye or his eye sockets yeah and out the other so now he's blind he drops out loses the he they he had to search around to find the gun and shoot himself again in like just behind the ear this time and kills himself holy shit like I oh and so when you were saying suicide yeah I was thinking to myself I was like I'm wondering like how many these guys are able to do it the first time a lot we do a ton of murder suicides and it's weird because it's always wealthier guys

wow you know it's it's um did you ever see that that there's like there are these guys what do they call them um there's a name for guys that kill their like like they lose their job and they realize we're going to lose our house we're going to lose it and fatalists fatalists or something they kill like their whole family

their three kids their wife and then they kill themselves because they can't imagine their family going on without them yep I can't believe how much it fucking happens we had a big high profile one up in carrowwood It was all over the news

And It was so fucked up So basically The guy was divorced Had a daughter That was in college At the time And the girlfriend and him

Were like fucking oil and water You know It was one of those love-hate relationships Lust to the whole bit And They're both heavy-ass fucking drinkers And Yeah right

And they're living together In this nice ass house And he is Very high-house very high up with a big Fortune 500 company. And I guess they're fucking fighting. They're drunk the whole bit. He takes a rifle and shoots her in the bed.

And then he's like, oh, fuck, what do I do? So wraps her up in the bedding, pulls her up in the bedding, pulls the car back to the front door, wraps her like a tortilla, puts her in the back of the, it was like a, not a four-door sedan, but like a small SUV. But the windows, like, it wasn't a trunk is what I'm getting at. So he's trying to get ready to do whatever. I'm assuming dispose of the body. Right. Well, somebody had called a check the welfare.

And the cops show up. Because they heard the gunshot? No, because they hadn't heard from her. Okay. In a while. It's been a day or so. So he shot her and she was still. Yeah, he's trying to figure out what is he going to do with her.

He didn't have her in the trunk of the car within an hour. This is a day or so. Yeah, a day or so. He puts her in the trunk. of the car and uh the cops show up you know just check the welfare he gets ready to walk to the door to knock on the door and he sees the wrapped body in the SUV and he's like holy fuck so they all back out right and now they're surrounded the house and this guy has his own gas mask ready so he's got a gas mask he's got he's set up armory of guns in there

And he makes it well known. He ain't coming out. And so they're like, fuck, they start shooting tear gas in there. Doesn't even phase the fucking guy because he's got the respirator on. He must have been the entire time writing this letter. I did this because of this. Like, he explained the whole fucking thing and then ends up shooting himself. So they crashed through the front door with the, you know, the battering rams and the whole bit.

And he's dead in the bed. So the letter basically said, love her to death, but that bitch is toxic as fuck. And she sounds like she's the problem. Yeah, yeah. She's really the problem. Exactly. But his problem was he couldn't walk away from her. Yeah.

And I leave everything to my daughter and the personal representative that I want to handle this is a friend. Like he had everything. And then what he did was fucking smart. Instead of writing one letter, he made like 12 photocopies. and hid them around the house. So I guess he was afraid that somebody would hide the letter or misconstrue it. So we actually found the actual letter, unbeknownst to us, because he had made so many copies of it. It's crazy.

This happened just eight or nine months ago. The level of narcissism. Yes. To plant, not only do I, you know, I want to have complete control of my life, but even after my death, I'm going to have 100% control of you. I want to have the last word. That's how I read it. Right.

Is I need to have the last word. Yeah, I loved her, but we were toxic for one another. She, it said something like, she was forcing me to not see my daughter, forcing me to choose her over my daughter. So they both were just fucked up. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, so he left a hell a mess, let me tell you. Oh, my God. Yeah.

hell of a mess we're a horrible species i know like yeah humans are fox man the the worst predators on the fucking planet yeah um i mean so after seeing all of like just everything that you've seen like what like it's just a little look on your face i mean i know what you're going to say like what are you you know what is your uh opinion of just humanity in general you know i never had a good opinion to begin with but now it's just you weren't a big fan it's in the fucking sewer you know it really is law enforcement often questions him not because he's suspected of a crime but because they find him fascinating he is the most interesting man in the world i don't typically commit crime but when i do it's bank fraud stay greedy my friends support the channel join matthew cox's

patreon you know when you do what i've done for as long as i've done it you really uh people people just don't value life it's you're expendable right and uh it's obvious it's day to day you know oh man man yeah people are so cruel to like some of the shit that i've seen them do to one another it's just brutal you know and you can tell the hatred in a person by the way that they kill somebody. You know, because there's a lot of easy ways to kill people. Yeah. But when you want to blast their fucking head off with a shotgun, that's a hatred right

there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I've done more murder-suicide cleanups than I've done homicide cleanups. Jeez. And dudes just can't stand to be broken up with, I guess. Yeah, that's. They're just like, you know what?

I don't want anybody else to have you. So I'm just going to kill you too. But don't kill the fucking dog. Come on. Is that what happens? They kill the dog, too? And she loved that dog. Yeah, but I love the dog.

So that's why I say don't kill the dog. You know, it's just I can clean up eyeballs, brain. Did you see the thing? Did you see the commercial Danny did from Concrete? Yeah. You know who Danny is? Yeah. Oh, have you done Danny's show?

No, but I saw his show on Concrete. Oh, you should do Danny's. Yeah. He's right. He's right. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Julian told me about him. Yeah, yeah, he's great.

Yeah, did Julian put you in contact with this? Yeah, I think so. Oh, okay. Oh, today? I was going to say, that's not what my fucking schedule said. Oh, okay. I still have to reach out to him. Oh, okay. Yeah, he's great. He's way better at this than me. Like, he'll answer, like, he'll answer, like, because trust me in the comment section, people

will be like, bro, like, you could have asked her this, could have this, and she'll be like, I didn't even think about that. But was, oh, Danny did a commercial one time. This is whole, it's hilarious, where the guy, his girlfriend gets deployed because he makes commercial you can leave all this in here like Danny his girl I showed you this commercial

if you remember that's hilarious it's in such a six six like I died laughing I die laughing some people are like oh my God it's horrible I'm like oh well you're too serious so where Danny there's a guy

and his girlfriend like the commercial is the guy and his girlfriend and her Labrador and they're watching the movie they're sitting on the couch watching the movie they're running on the beach they're in love They're together.

You can tell she loves her dog. Yeah. So then one day they're laying in bed and the phone rings and she gets a phone call and she's like, and she looks at him like and he's like, oh my God. She's packing up her stuff. She's in the military. Oh. Packs up her stuff, puts on her bass, puts on everything as her bag or duffel bag. He drives her with the dog, drives to the airport.

She's telling the dog goodbye. It's beautiful. It's very romantic. Like you're like, this is so sweet. This is the music. And then so then he goes and you can see him with. the dog at night, sleeping in the dog, walk in the dog, he's alone, she's gone. Then he drives back to the airport.

I'm dating in Tampa International, like, had to get a permit and everything, and they're in the parking garage, and he's sitting there with the dog waiting, and all of a sudden she comes out, and there's this massive, like, six-foot-four black guy who's carrying her, and she's with him, and she's all hugging him and kissing him, and he's, and he's also in the military, and she's walking, and he's like, what uh-huh and he sits there and all of a sudden he pulls out a gun and he sticks the gun to the dog boom and shoots her dog and he sticks the gun to his head and it's the funniest thing you've ever seen like that's soft don't judge me um he shoots the dog and then himself she's her dog does she see it

yeah she's there she's they're like like screaming and then he shoots himself and then the So he did that commercial for a jewelry store. Oh, fuck. So he, but he had an alternate, that's just his own alter. He said because when we were talking about putting it together, he and his buddies were like, wouldn't it be funny? She walks out with another guy and he shoots her dog. Yeah, but how does that correlate with a jewelry company? No, he does, that he made a separate.

Oh, a separate one. So he did it as a spoof. Yeah. He's like, we're already here. Yeah. We have the, like it was, like it's easy to shoot her going, and she turns to him and she runs and they hug. and he no she hugs the dog yeah yeah and then that's it he said we ought to go ahead we'll take a gun yeah you know so he did the separate one he he goes to he when he pitches it to them yeah they have like

20 people in a boardroom holy and he shows that one the one where they all freaked out and he said I think they're going to die lap realizing it's a joke oh no he said bro crickets I bet and he said they look at them they're like they were horrified um read the fucking room man Danny we uh we uh we really don't. He said, I realized right away that they're not thinking. He's okay, that was a joke. There's a joke. Hold on. I got that. He said, and then I play the other one. They're like, oh, okay, that's, uh, yeah, that's much better. Okay, okay.

He said like, hey, no sense of humor. No, of course not. It was. Read the room. I will show you the video. You're going to be like, you just don't see it coming. Yeah. As I'm sure many of these people didn't, I'll get back.

Yeah. No, it's okay. Then it'll be muscle memory for me and I'll just pick up a mop in a fucking bottle and I'll just start cleaning. And I'm like, oh, whoa, wait. this is a commercial hold on yeah this is a commercial hold on yeah oh my god um have you seen breaking bad yeah you love it i've seen i've seen everyone i've seen was good so you haven't seen it through and through no no no give me that when that series was huge i was locked up and it's hard to watch there's no excuse now there's netflix there's just fucking no excuse you

know i just got through game of thrones oh i couldn't do it i'm working on you know we're working on uh i think it's the language really i Like, I don't want to have to pay attention that much to understand. What the fuck kind of English are you speaking? What did I watch? What did we watch the other day? Oh, you know what? Did you ever see, not, what's the name of it?

You. Yes. He's a serial killer. Yes. And he stalks these chicks. Yeah. That's a great one. It is.

But, you know, there was like three seasons. And then I think the new season's coming out. in like a month or something. Uh-huh. That's a great one. He's constantly cleaning stuff up. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah, he's the one who's got him locked in a cage, right? Yeah, because he's always trying to fight the urge to get rid of it. And he'll argue. He actually does let, like, he ends up letting one guy go. And that guy ends up being, like, a huge confidant of his who's, like, helping him. No, shit. I missed that part. He was already, like, a criminal anyway.

Oh, okay. And he is. So instead of turning him in, he's like, hey, man, I like your style. Yeah. You know what's so funny about that? I want to kidnap chicks, too. Well, you know what's funny about that? The whole time he's talking to this guy and he's locked up in the cage, he's like,

you don't understand, I'm in love with this girl in Thailand. And I've sent her $30,000 to get a surgery. And he's sitting there going like, there's no girl in Thailand. Are you crazy? Yeah. But eventually he lets him go. There is a girl in Thailand. He goes to Thailand.

He's living in Thailand, and he's remotely like helping him. Shut up. It's a great show. All right. All right. All right. But it's a great show. Super dark show.

Oh, I mean. I would think that, you know, like yeah my life is dark so yeah okay I like it how often do you do this um the the cleanup like is it pretty semi consistent or do you have weeks when you're doing nothing no it's consistent but you know we have other services too like meth lab cleanup that we'll do we'll clean meth labs you know that don't involve I love the way you say that just like doesn't everybody like hey pass the broccoli like you know we also wash cars yeah yeah only if there's blood in it right so so So, meth lab cleanup.

Jesus. Yeah. So that's why I said if you'd seen Breaking Bad, because out of everything that I've seen, that is the most accurate in terms of why we clean it, the PPE that he's wearing, the whole bit. Like the storyline is brutally accurate. Right. Every, every meth guy I knew in prison had a burn mark on them. Oh, I'm sure. All of them have burned up teeth?

Well, not all of them. Most of them, that was at the level, like when the medium, you know, the guys I met that did meth in the low security prison, like probably as silly as this at the age of 53, you know, my best friend, which is a guy named Perry, a Rossini, who when you were mentioning rolled the guy, rolled her up like a tortilla, that's what he did. He's disposed of two bodies. And he said, you know, we put him in a sleeping bag, you know, roll like a tortilla. Yeah. And we, you know, dump the bodies and, you know, these. dumpsters um why do people use dumpsters i don't know when you have perfectly good alligators oh i i i told you i was like i was like i mean seriously dig a hole bury the body

or burn it or do some get rid like don't throw in a dumpster thinking a one of them don't make yourself sweat give it to the alligators let them do it well there's no he was in illa well there are there alligator in l. no no okay um but anyway he uh but like this is prime spot right here but he wasn't he he he ran meth labs but you know they weren't like double wides in the bathtub he ran them like they rented penthouses yeah this was a high end this was one crystal meth like so he they were making they were making ice yeah and he was he's a chemist and was taught by a chemist right but he does have he does have a burn mark I've also met the guys who have half their face melted off oh I'm sure

you put mix the fucking lithium in the wrong order and you that shit's gonna wear on you but like he made meth and never did math he's like I've never done it that's the way to to go. That's like Walter White. Right. He made it, but didn't do it. The fatal errors when they do their own product. Yeah. Because then they get sloppy.

Right. He, yeah, he was super, and super successful at it, too. Like, hired, had FBI agents that were on his payroll. This was back in the, back in the 80s. Like, they're tipping him off. They actually, he's been arrested multiple times. And they literally... Did they find the bodies?

Did he buried? Well, they found one body in a dumpster. One body was also thrown in a dumpster, and it just, they never found it. Obviously, it was thrown in a lamp. still somewhere um so he never got charged with that no no he was charged of oh he did okay you know and they were both uh fbi informants so they were so that's why they accounted equated the murders to him of course it's such a it's such a it's such a i actually wrote a whole book on it's called devil exposed oh okay but it's such a horrible case where he was convinced to testify

or cooperate in exchange for a reduced sentence that um and accept a plea because everybody else in the case was even though they had all taken like polygraphs and failed them right multiple times they were all going to say he was the one that first they all said he killed the guys then once they failed the polygraphs they said okay he didn't kill him but um he told us to kill him yeah and you know they failed them again then they said okay okay well what happened was and so then they stopped giving when they finally got the story they wanted they stopped giving them the polygraphs and now you've got seven guys we got like three guys ready to say you did it yeah seven other people ready to testify right so he's like i have no choice but

to plead guilty and tell what really happened which was that these guys decided to kill him i was there i did know what was going to happen um anyway uh and he said and i disposed the bodies which was funny because i can't take this is going to be horrible like walking in prison yeah and like i forget Like I owed him like some sodas or something. I'm supposed to buy him on commissary. And they didn't have soda for like three weeks. And I went to commissary. And I'm like, hey, by the way, I don't have the sodas.

You know, I'm like they didn't have them again. And he goes, my God. He's like, I feel like one of your victims like that. And I go, hey, bro, my victims are alive. He's like, you know damn well. All I did was move the bodies. And it was like, and I remember stopping thinking, you know, this isn't a normal conversation.

No, no. Not at all. This is not your typical guy conversation. But is it true what they say is that, you know, you go into prison with a high school diploma and you come out with a Ph.D. You've heard me say that. No, I haven't. Have I not said that exact? Well, listen. I was in law enforcement, so that's the kind of the common thing. So it is true. Oh, absolutely. So do you believe that there's a perfect crime where

you can't get caught? My, so my, I mean, I believe there is as far as, let's say, let's say fraud. Yeah, white collar. Yeah, white collar. There definitely is. My only problem with saying that is, it's like with me. Like, I didn't get. caught. It's the fly in the ointment that throws everything off. And I'll give you an example. I would use this example. I had a girl one time who we rented

a house, transfer the deed into somebody else into another name, a stolen identity. We have a perfect ID. Everything's perfect. We finance the house twice. We've got about half a million dollars coming to us. She goes into a title company to get the check, signs everything. The picture

on the ID is her. Yeah. The woman's a title company, has her sign everything, looks at the ID and says, this doesn't look like you. And it is her. It's her. Yeah. And she goes, it's me. She said, I had darker hair in the picture, but it's me.

Looks at it. Another woman comes in and says, it's her. It's her. And she goes, I don't think so. And she says, listen, you've signed. I'm not going to give you the check. She said, what I'm going to do is I'm going to make some phone calls. if everything checks out

I'll mail you the check or you can come back and get it I'm sorry I just feel like something's not right now there's nothing that wasn't right it was the only thing the police said the only thing was that the picture didn't match

I said but the dude did match and they go we know it's just weird that she felt that way and even she said I just didn't look like her like how do I account for me doing everything out perfectly you fucked up and stumbled on to my crime

like that's what happened she started making phone calls And eventually she finds out that the warranty deed, the person that we bought the house from, didn't sell the house. He's like, I didn't sell the house. What are you talking about? You're borrowing money on my house. You know, and no, it's in my name. No, here's the warranty deed.

He's like, that's my tenant. Oh. So it unraveled. Had she not made that mistake, it would have been, the crime would have been fine. Like, I was running a crime that was, I was running a crime where I was making synthetic identities. Yeah. and I'm buying houses for $50,000, recording the sale price at $200. So now the houses appear to be $200, buying them all in one area.

Right. And then I'm borrowing money at the $200,000. So now I've got appraisals that say the house is worth $200. The comparable sales are $200. Right. I'm borrowing $180,000 on a house I bought for $40 or $50,000, pulling out over $100,000 per house. So each person bought five or six houses. So each person's borrowing a million dollars.

There's a profit of $6 or $7,000. $700,000. Right. And then we'd make a few payments and let them all go into foreclosure. And the banks are foreclosing on the houses, not realizing that they just lost. They realize, of course, when they resell them, we made a mistake. Like we lent too much money on a house that wasn't worth it. Right.

But the comparable sales were there. Exactly. And this happens. In a real world scenario, it does happen. And because you bought in the same neighborhood, you elevated the appraisal. Exactly. They couldn't prove. Right.

The reason that whole thing imploded was because that person didn't recognize the thing. And that sparked an investigation that got to somebody else arrested. And that person cooperated. And they started a task force. And they said, this is what he's been doing for almost two years. Now he's borrowed over $11 million. Yeah. And then they come to arrest me.

Fuck. So the whole thing fell over. So is that the perfect crime? To me, it was the perfect crime because I'm stealing from you. I'm telling you there's a loss. And you're saying it's perfectly legal. We'll just take the hit and move on. And I was spreading it out.

it was working so is it yes but the problem is is that like to me committing fraud is something that I could very easily pull off what I can't account for is the fly in the ointment yeah and I can't at my age I don't have another run in right right I can't go back to jail I can't five years I'll be lucky if I can put myself if I can get myself together enough to retire at 65 or 70 right right like think about it start your life over at 53 years old yeah no I mean when you when you talk about But the drug game, that's a short lifespan, man. These guys are, and they're insane to take that risk. Right.

Yeah. For nothing. They're cutting each other. But by the time that that, you know, 100% pure ice hits my level, it's been cut so many times with fucking baking soda and sugar and everything else that it's so diluted. It's like 20% of product. What is the fentanyl? Fentanyl now. Yeah.

So you know what's interesting about that is, you know, everybody's, Like you were saying, it's all different levels, right? I know a guy who owns several title companies in this area. He's hired me several times to do promotions for him. I didn't know that he had a drug habit. And he died from fentanyl about a year ago. Shit. Didn't even know it until like six months ago, I called up just to catch up with him.

Yeah, but is he one of those guys that was using fentanyl or using other stuff that was cut with fentanyl? apparently he had like a heroin habit he would get clean for a few years right super successful did he was he aware though that the fentanyl was in the heroin i don't think so see that's happening a lot right right that that from what i understand is the guy i talked i ended up talking to an ex a friend of his they were friends yeah former friend you know so they were friends i ended up talking to him because he's the one who told me right after i tried to contact uh the one guy his name is kevin i reached out to him hey what's going on right right he calls me he's like hey man I'm

he's like I'm fucked up over Kevin like I'm not sure you've heard I'm like heard what he's not returning my tax like that's why I reached out to you yeah he's like oh wow he's like yeah he would get clean for four or five years he'd you know he said then he

he'd you know he'd go on a bender or whatever for you know three or four months his sister would call me I'd fly down we'd get him in a rehab he's just been going on for 20 years yeah he's super successful guy right and he said yeah he said he started doing heroin and apparently

he got something that was laced with fentanyl. I don't understand why they're lacing it unknowingly. I don't what's the benefit? I mean, you're killing the guy so there goes your sale,

future sales. Right. It doesn't make sense to me. But we just cleaned up one, two Irish guys, literally relocated to Tampa from Ireland, didn't even have their fucking furniture yet. Right? So these two guys, you know, big guys doing steroids.

the whole bit, E.D. pills all over their fucking apartment. They don't have anything in their apartment yet. And they're like, hey, first day in Tampa, let's go party. They get some Coke, not knowing that the Coke was laced with fentanyl. They fucking snored it. Both of them. Bam, died right there.

No one found them for two weeks because their family's in fucking Ireland. Yeah, they just figured. So apartment comes knocking because it stinks. They find the fentany. Coke there and then they decomposed on the floor so it's like I just don't get it why you're putting fentanyl unknowingly and giving it to people when there's plenty of people that would probably buy it as is I mean I'm assuming that maybe it's simulates the same kind of a high and there and these guys are putting too much in it like I'm sure people could

do it it's laced with fentanyl and they don't die it's so miniscule what it takes to kill you though really okay it's a granule like of sand we could put a granule right here of sand and it'll kill you it'll fucking kill you yeah i don't i don't i just don't get it um those those guys bought coke they didn't know that you know that it had fentanyl in there it just doesn't make any fun sense to me but people aren't drug dealers aren't aren't you know they're not rocket scientists no by any means and uh it's a risky risky risky business And my opinion is too much risk, way more risk than the reward. I forget I read a book about a former, it was a retired like drug enforcement agent.

And there was a filthy rich, like pastor that ran one of these mega churches. And his son had been caught smoking pot. And he brings in the DE agent who works for him as security and says, you know, what's going on? Like I give money to drugs, all these. drug thing and all he's like i mean this isn't it's not even it's not making a dent he's like what would make a dent yeah and the guy says well in the DEA we used to shoot the shit we used to say you know well you know what like if you poisoned a good portion of the drug drugs that are out there people would go into rehabs you'd kill a lot of people hardcore dealers you'd actually not a bad

idea well he ends up going to like columbia or something he gets some um a mushroom room that that shuts your liver down but you have to take it over a long period of time he's like that way you can't just poison the drugs because very quickly quickly it'll kill 12 people right and they'll realize this is what it is and it'll stop you have to do something that you can get out there in the whole community where hardcore drug users will be hit over time and then people won't know whether they're using it or not and eventually it'll hit the news it'll still be out there people won't know and they'll clean up because they'll be scared because Jimmy died and Tommy died and so-and-so's in the hospital and I need to get clean because I've been

taking some of the same stuff so they do this the whole book is designed it's it's an so maybe this has been done by the U.S. government because they're the ones that are benefiting from it right but these guys are dying right away yeah like and then there's scare out there like you were saying that's a really good point but I mean does the government even want to shut down you know drugs like just like you said Why wouldn't you just regulate it? Charge, regulate it. Like, they regulated marijuana.

I don't see people jumping off buildings. Like, I don't see this as being a horrible thing. No, no. This isn't changed. I think it's just put a ton of money back into the government. So you know that it works. I mean, other countries are doing it. They're regulating the prostitution too, you know, Amsterdam and even here, you know, one county.

So I don't get it. It doesn't make much sense. Yeah, I was in the middle of when I went to Amsterdam last year, It was the middle of COVID, like everything across the board was shut down. But, yeah, didn't look like a horrible place. No. Look, reminded me of Venice. Yeah.

It's very nice, very cool. I mean, everybody seemed nice. I didn't see a real issue. Yeah. So. I bet they have low violence. They do have low violence. Considering the...

If they have low violence, they have low crime. Yeah. They have low across, of course, everybody's relaxed. Everybody's happy, relaxed. Yeah. I don't have to break into three people's houses to get enough money to buy, crack exactly just get some weed yeah I agree um I think you're on to something yeah yeah I'm the first person to say that yeah that horse is indeed yeah yeah so anything any

other things that you can think of that you know there's uh the the stories of what people do to one another you know we had this uh this chick once her dad put a pillow over his head and shot himself in the head to just mask the sound you know and we're in there and we get there and she calls us to for the clean up and she insists on sitting in there and watching and I'm like that's fucking weird you know and I'm thinking well maybe it's closure for her right she needs to see it and stuff so she sits there doesn't say a word just like kind of a creepy sits there in the corner watches watches us clean it up and then you know I'm pulling the betting back and stuff and I find part of um his jaw with a tooth in it and uh she sees me grab it and i'm getting ready

to throw it in the red bag and she goes no no no no i want it i'm like wait you want that nobody's asked me for that so i was like fuck what do i do and i'm like okay and i give it to her and uh she grabs it and she walks off and the next day we get back to the job you know it was a decent size job come back the next day and she's fucking wearing it around her neck on a necklace that's how you keep daddy with you folks

yeah yeah people are very very strange people were fucking weird yep weird weird that was the first time and last time that that's happened that somebody wanted to wear it but you know you got like Angelina Jolie when she wearing like a vial of blood.

A blood from Billy Bob Thornton. They both wore. Yeah. So maybe that's a thing. I don't know. But a jaw and teeth that's going to literally decompose on your, hey, babe, what's that new perfume? Decom. So it wasn't, so there's like still stuff attached to it?

Yeah. It was a piece of the jaw with the tooth. It would look like an incisor. Yeah. And she had it on a, on a rope, like a chain. And she was proud of it. How old is this chick? 27, 28.

Wow. Yeah. She's younger. Yeah. She lived in the house? No. Oh, she didn't live in the house, but he put a, but she was there when he. Well, she's the next to Ken.

No, no, I'm saying she was there when he tried to kill himself? No. Okay. No, she was there when I tried to clean it. I guess he wanted to mask the sound or whatever by putting a pillow there. But, um, yeah, she was. eccentric to say the least yeah that's a polite way to say yeah um man so how how often are you doing this every day every day every day there's there's something um is it just you

oh well yeah yeah it's grown you know we've got about 48 locations across the country now oh yeah yeah because i franchised it back in 2016 okay so um Tampa is like our corporate headquarters, so it's the, one of the largest offices, of course. Right. You know, we've got media team and marketing team and financial team. You know, there's, it's definitely grown from where it was. You know, I started out being by myself. Yeah, yeah. And now we have like 21 employees in corporate and there's about 95 employees among the other locations. So when did you open the, when did you start your YouTube channel? 2019 okay and uh that was a risk right what's the name of it sorry crime scene cleaning crime scene cleaning yeah and it was a risk to start it out and why do you say that well basically you know long story short i was getting contacted back in 2012 14 from all these reality TV show

companies right in la yeah hey we love this business we want to make a show out of it this you know and I'm like, okay, and we'll follow you around, we'll make a sizzle, yada, yada, yada. And they all kind of came back and said, everybody loves the concept, but they think it's going to be very difficult for sponsors because they're not going to want to advertise on something that grotesque. Right. So my response was, why the fuck are you pitching it on cable? Yeah.

Like, this is not a lifetime movie. Yeah, yeah. This is Netflix, HBO, you know, Prime. so I finally in 2019 I said fuck it we're going to do it ourselves uh you know YouTube was starting to you know get some traction and a lot of people were doing well on there and my entire staff was like that's a bad idea and I'm like why that shit's going to come off callous it's going to be insensitive and I'm like no no no no you don't understand we're literally going to have a videographer follow our crews around just a day in the life yeah we're going to make it

educational what we do why we do it and yeah i don't have to be in the middle of the crime scene making jokes and cracking jokes like no no this is how the process right what happens like i can so i said i think it's a chance we take yeah so we did it and within the first two months we had 100 000 subscribers i'm like fuck right yeah should have done this five years ago i should have done this five years ago exactly and not listen to you fox so we did it and you know now we're almost at a million subs. We're at four and a half million on TikTok. People love to see this shit.

They love the gore. Right. They love, I mean, as gross as it sounds, they want to see what it looks like when you blow your fucking brains out. Right. And I'm pulling your eyeball out of the drywall. So what's happening with the,

what's happening with, with advertisers? Like, I mean, the videos, you're monetized. We're monetized. We're monetized. Our advertising. Oh, yeah. They are advertising.

And, you know, I find it. It's hypocritical, kind of what, how YouTube formulates their algorithm. Because obviously our content does not meet their guidelines. But they're like, hey, those motherfuckers have viewers. Yeah. So instead of giving them the normal split, which, you know, I don't know, 70, 30, 70, them 30, they just fucking reversed it. They take the 70, we get the 30, and they call it limited ads.

Yeah, yeah. You know, so. But they're still advertised. Oh, fuck, yeah. There's tons of advertising. advertisers. We're doing sponsorships for people that don't necessarily need to be aligned with cleaning or restoration. You know, we've done headphones for Christ's sake. You name it, Hoover gave us a sponsorship with their vacuums and stuff. Right. But I mean, the AdSense,

the thing about the AdSense is that, that YouTube's, that the advertisers that are connected with AdSense, they don't know where their videos are showing up. If you meet their demographic, It's different than you getting a sponsorship. That's if they know it's on your show. True. I'm saying the ad sense. True. If it's ad sense, like it could be like they're, all they're saying is look.

No, they're looking for demographics. Right. We're looking for demographics. If she meets this demographic. Exactly. They're putting it on there. We don't care what it is. And our demographic is ironically 75% female.

Really? Yeah, between the age of 35 and 55. And that that's the, remember we were talking about, like, that's the thing is that like true crime is like 80% female. Yes, correct. But it's 80% female when it's connected to murder, serial killer murder, you know, blood and gore. Right. But if you have things like fraud and con men and scams, they're not interested. Yeah. That's why mine is like, it's like 95, 96% male. Right. Women are interested in the story too. So what I had to do was not only say, we're going to clean this up, and this is how we do it,

we need to give them the story. Right. What happened to this guy? What kind of life did he live? Why did he do what he do? That's what women want. They want to know the story behind it. Men are more like,

show me the fucking brains. Okay. Right? Which is anyone really surprised by that? No. Look at like, you know, horror movies. That's probably majority male because there's really not a theme there.

All right. Okay. You know, but if you look at like a lifetime channel, that's real, that's all female. Yeah. It's more about the story than it is. That's what women want.

And that's why these true crime channels, they're doing so well because women are tuning in and paying attention. Man, almost a million subscribers. Since 2019, yeah. So we should have been in a million last year. And I'm, no, you're not. No, you're not. You're not at all. I always yelling at him.

I mean, yeah, yeah. And it's, it's Connor's fault. It's Connor and Colby's fault. It is. you know I probably fire them immediately yeah he's like I just got here like I've been here like a year have you been a year almost a year how'd you find him um he's uh same colby he contacted colby and said hey I want to get into this Colby Tyler found Colby I just one day said to Tyler look I want to interview people but I want to do like three cameras like

yeah and he does right right you know I want to do that like that's like the thing and I was like but I can't work the cameras I can't do the cameras in the switch right and that and I can buy the equipment right he said i'll find somebody for you yeah and like two weeks later he said okay i can you meet this guy for breakfast at this time yeah yeah yeah oh and colby uh like colby quit his job jesus colby was making like a hundred thousand dollars a year as a um working in a in a warehouse as a coordinator in like a warehouse like no way um you know the truck doing the trucks and everything and but he's just he got to a point after so many years he's got a daughter is a daughter he's a daughter he's a daughter married has a daughter young guy and he's just like I got to that point

where I was like he went to his wife and said look I I don't want to do this rest of my life yeah like it's good money but I'm at the point now where they're starting to kind of like elevate me and I'm going to get stuck making so much money that I can't back out of it golden handcuffs yeah and he said so he said I I want to this is what I want to do I want to do YouTube and she was like okay well can we can we survive on that and he said well let me look into it so as soon as he kind of looked in started looking into it he had a buddy that was going to hire him to run his channel he does has a sporting good store he's going to I'll you we start something with the sporting's good and then at the same time Tyler came in and said hey here's my buddy

you know you got to talk to Matt so so now I think he's making he said he's making way more than he was making before after what's like six months to a year he's making more money now than he was making it the other job doing what he likes to do yeah so good for him so good for exactly i i love stories where that's the perfect scenario it is when not only you're doing better than you were financially but you're doing what you love yeah i you know look like just doing the youtube and everything in general like i said when i was in prison i was i was i was perfectly happy living in someone's spare room just being able to do things that make me happy yeah instead of spending the rest of my life chasing money yeah doing something that sucks that I don't really that's a struggle to get out of

bed to do right and you know the thing that I really like doing you know is bank fraud yeah but the judge was very serious the judge made it clear you can't even work for a title company you can't do that again yeah and so yeah can you even work in the financial sector no I can't work in finance I can't work in real estate I can't work in construction or development damn um But, you know, so now that what I love doing is just talking about. Like when somebody hires me to do a speaking engagement, and, you know, one, you get to fly across the country. You know, that's always funny. So you fly somewhere and then you go and you give an hour-long talk.

And, of course, there's usually like a dinner after or something beforehand. So it's a few hours. You get to talk about all the things that I've done. And especially if I talk to people in the industry, then they have stories and we can have the stories. Right. And I don't have to, there's no chance I'm going to jail for that, which is a plus. And then I get to write true crime stories and I get to interview people like you, which is super interesting because, you know, if you wanted to interview Jordan Peterson, for example, that might be interesting. But the truth is there's 5,000 videos on him already.

But there's not 5,000 videos on someone in your line of work. Right, right. There's not somebody that, like that to me is unique. Even in prison, when I was writing guys' stories, like a lot of things. these guys have trapped like you talk to some drug dealer who's in there and you talk to some guy who's like I was raising the project my mom was a prostitute my dad was in prison uh I started selling drugs I this course but and the problem with that story is it's a good story he's got he's got snitches and bad cops and and double crosses and he's got a great story but it's not unique

there's I can sit there and listen to there's a thousand other guys on this compound with that story. So what I would focus on is what can I, what kind of, who can I talk to that has a different story. It's still a crime story. So it's, it's, it's Ephraim Deverelli. It's the gun runner. Yeah. It's, you know, it's a guy who's, maybe the meth lab who's, yeah, but he's doing in penthouses in Beverly Hills. I find that fascinating. Right. All of their different histories, what got them to where they did, that where they went. I just, I find it fascinating. Yeah, that's me too. Like I love talking to those guys. Yeah. It's not that the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the crack dealer doesn't have a great story, but it's not unique enough for me to, I've heard it a

thousand times. Yeah. The difference I think is when the empathy that I actually had for these drug dealers, these street level drug dealers, it's like when you give them no education, no path to do anything else, they don't know any different. What did you think was going to happen? Of course. I would do the same thing. Yeah, this is what's available to me. Everybody I know is doing it. Everybody I know is in drugs. It doesn't have a horrible stigma in. my neighborhood or my family right and if I go to prison people will put money on my books and they'll come visit me and this is yeah yeah it's it's a cycle and I think they're focusing on the wrong problem let's go after drugs drugs no it's way before that like wire it's a supply

and demand issue right just like any business so why aren't we focused on what's causing the demand to begin with right yeah I think that's that's that's the problem and you know the stigma is wow if you're a young black male and you're poor your choice is to work at the 7-Eleven or deal drugs and actually be able to feed your family right yeah who wouldn't choose that i mean come on well you and i aren't going to fix the problem right this second so we should though we'll work on it later um all right so um so you've got the YouTube channel, you've got, I said, I had no idea you were, you'd franchise this thing and you were all over the, yeah, what do you do for the franchise?

What do you, do you, do you train the people? Do you provide them with all the, train them, provide the marketing, the call center, the, you know, just the infrastructure is, in sense, because what, what you're doing is people are buying business in a box. They don't want to go through the shit that I went through, starting out, you know, um, printing your own fucking business cards with perforations on the bottom. So they want a business in a box, and we're giving it to them. We're saying here, here's the system in the process.

Follow it. You will be successful, just like we are. Right. And that's essentially the secret sauce to every franchise in the world. So you're McDonald'sizing it. Exactly. And so do they pay a franchise fee or? They buy a territory of 500,000 people.

So you say you've got a city like, you know, L.A. That's a big city. You probably got 10 franchisees that could. be in that particular area and then they pay us a royalty on every um a percentage on every job that they do um so do you do all of them do the same thing do they all do they all do they all do the they have to do all of the services that we provide okay and to do the like do they have to go get certified themselves we train them okay so you have a training like a training school yeah we have a training school right there in tampa ebor oh okay

We actually have simulated crime scenes, too. Okay. So we created like a 10 by 10 room with drywall. We put carpet sometimes. We put LVP, you know, the plank flooring sometimes. And we use pig's blood. And we just simulate a normal crime scene. And that's how we teach them how to clean this stuff.

Okay. Do you do you have like a thing on your YouTube channel? Do you ever go through the whole process and everything? We record the whole thing. You know, we really want to see. what their reaction is to being in that environment. Do people not do well? I mean, you know, most people do very, very well.

We've had one guy that puked. Right. That he was just like, man. But, you know, you're supposed to wear a respirator. That's the whole point. So you don't smell the stuff. Yeah. Huh.

I was just thinking, um... But it looks freaking realistic. Right. You know, we've got couches and beds and living rooms and sometimes we do vehicles. We'll get vehicles donated to us. And I'll go get this galley. gallon of pig's blood

and I'll sit it in the sun and I'll let it start coagulating these guys are like yeah and it looks like a human fucking liver when it's coming out you know and I'll let the flies get in there and lay their eggs and the maggots and you know we let it

but you get desensitized to this right like at some point like if you walk into it if you walk into it you don't you're just like I can eat a hamburger right in the middle of it yeah yeah yeah That needs to be the clip. Yeah.

Yeah. There can be rotting corpses and blood and guts and everything. And I'm sitting there eating a hockey need of birthing. Pass me the five guys. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Oh, my God.

It's horrible. You know what's funny is it was, there was, I read like an article about psychopaths and what businesses psychopaths go into. Like what has the largest percentage of psychopaths. Like, it was CEOs was like one of the largest, yeah, CEOs. Well, they also fall in like, you know, so antisocial behavior in general, follow up, but, but narcissists. So, so sociopathicism, a lot of times goes hand in hand. So you have, it was CEOs.

And then the next one was like surgeons, like doctors and surgeons. Oh, yeah. To be a surgeon. Oh, yeah. But to be a surgeon. It's godlike. It's got into somebody. To cut into something.

Like, to me, if you said, Matt, I'm paying you to cut. into me here's your scalpel i would have a hard time physically cutting into somebody just would freak me out um but and i'm pretty much a sociopath anyway but i'd have a hard time so in general like that it's funny so i'm wondering like people that say hey i'm going to go into this business you know they might i wonder if they're going into it because they're like it won't affect me or they're saying no i can easily handle this are some people just easily handling it no big deal Yeah, but I think it's, it's, uh, everyone has a morbid curiosity. So we get people slow down at car accidents.

Yeah, like they're rubber neck in it, looking at, you know. That always kills me. I'm like, hey, what happened? They're like almost stopping. Yeah. We want to see an arm. Yeah. We want to see, you know, a decapitation or something.

Remove the blanket, please. But I think, you know, we get a lot of messages from followers and fans on the, on social media that are, how do I get a job with you guys? This looks amazing. Like, who does that, you know? Like, I look at a lobster commercial. I'm like, now that looks amazing, but I don't want to fucking work there. Right. But these people are like, hey, I'm enamored with death.

Yeah. And destruction. And I want to work there. And I'm like, hey, you're hired. Yeah. You need to start a franchise. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Or, you know, work with us. But a lot of people, it's not, it may look glamorous. I can't imagine how it would look glamorous. But in reality, it's fucking hard work you're wearing a tyvec suit a respirator which is like breathing through a straw it's 110 fucking degrees in florida right you're sweating your tits off and it's not it's not glamorous by any means you're you're miserable while you're doing it and once they get into the reality of it they're like oh yeah it's a lot of work i'd rather you know go and eat a big mac

then then sit here and and sweat my tits off yeah well i think that's most things you the glamour Like you see the best part of it, and you realize, oh, wait a second, this is a lot of work. Yeah, but I think it's all mindset. So what I do is I look at it as a mess. For me, it is no different than if somebody just took a cord of motor oil and poured it in your living room, I would treat it exactly the same as I treat blood.

It's just a mess to me. Because remember, the human is not there. They're gone. I mean, maybe some parts are left. But for the most part, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you look like. I don't know anything about you. I don't know your name.

Sometimes I don't even know your fucking gender. Right. You know, they won't even tell me. They'll just be like, hey, you know, clean up on aisle nine. Right. Okay, we're in there cleaning it up. I don't ask questions. When you're done, you probably have a feeling of satisfaction, right?

Huge. Huge. Because I'm a big kind of before and after person, and this is kind of why I love flipping houses and remodeling. Because I want to see a transition. And the best satisfaction to me is for somebody to come in and go, where did it happen yeah that's that's perfect for me so it's funny because like when i was on the run like i have plenty of money i was still flipping houses i would still buy a house clean it up fix it up you know do the whole thing it's like well why are you doing that it's like well i have to do

something like yeah but of all the things you could do why would you do that i'm like i i like i would go in i can pay someone to hire to lay the wood floors i like laying the wood floors right i could pay someone to put in the French doors but I like that yeah like so there were certain things I'm like no no I'm gonna do the tile work and they're like um okay yeah are you sure like have you ever done it before I'm like yeah I like I enjoy doing it so I would do those things um and I was talking to Danny one time he was talking about painting like do you like painting I was like yeah I was like and he's like so you like what do you like about I'm like it I like it when it's done yeah like the actual going through the process of it I I enjoy that the process

Do you find it therapeutic? I do. Very calming. Like time goes by. I feel the same way about writing. Yeah. Like I'll start writing. I'll wake up before in the morning or something and I'm down here and this and that.

And I feel like I haven't done anything. And all of a sudden, I've written a couple paragraphs. And I'll look, turn around. And Jess is making coffee. And I'm like, what are you doing up so early? And she's like, it's 545. Like you've been up for almost two hours. We've got to go to the gym soon.

I'm like, I feel like I've been here 10 minutes. Yeah. And it's the same thing with painting, like three hours. hours will go by like that people say how long it take you to do that and I'm always like I'm not you know I can't really even tell you because the time passes so quickly right right but I was explaining that to Danny from concrete uh-huh and I and he said I go don't you have anything like that and he goes he's not really and I went wait a minute I go do you mow your own yard he goes yeah and I go when you're done mowing your yard and it's done and the mowers off and it's put up

and you walk out I go and you look at the yard do you have a feeling of satisfaction he goes I love that. And I said, I feel that all the time. Exactly. All the time. Yeah. And he was like, he goes, do you know what I do? And I go, what? He said, I actually watch TikToks of people mowing yards.

And I go, no, you don't. He goes, absolutely. Yeah. So probably once a week, he'll send me a TikTok of some guy that's completely finished the yard, a yard. It's like a time lapse. It's so satisfying. And he does.

He's like, he's like, I love this. Yeah. I love, look at them. Look at all the lines. What we did it with the wine? Even ironing. Everyone hates ironing. I love it.

Yeah. But when you're done, yeah, it's great. It's like that. It's awesome. I did that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Satisfaction. Yeah. I get that. I don't think most, I think if you work in the, if you work in the warehouse in Walmart or you're a cashier, I don't think you ever get that satisfaction. And maybe they don't need that satisfaction. I don't know if everyone needs it that what we have.

Right. When you find it, like, you're, you're. painting is my cleaning or remodeling right i i that that's why to me like what i was saying like i'm okay if if if i wasn't making a living doing this enough to have a nice house and a nice car whatever you know and like like that you know like going to i you know like buying a couple tickets and going to you know hollywood or hollywood um uh uh uh yeah a Halloween horror night yeah like yeah like you know that would like i'm lucky like i like i feel grateful i I'm right that I'm in a position like if just said hey let's go to dinner tonight they'd be like

I'm not going to be like I don't know we're trapped like I can go right but if it if it was if I was strapped and I had to stay in someone's spare room I would still be doing exactly what I'm doing yeah like because this is better than all that other stuff yeah I mean they say you know if you enjoy what you do you'll never work a day in your life and eventually the money will come I agree but you know I would rather do what I love for $20,000 a year than do something I fucking hate for a millionaire. Yeah. I just...

I think that's what Colby. That was the problem of what Colby was doing. And luckily, it's worked out. That's something my dad always said. He said, look, you know, don't do it for the money. Yes. Because if you're good at it and you love it, the money will come. It will.

So don't focus on that. You know, and he was... I agree with that. I agree with that. He was a duchab in a lot of ways, but Matt says he was right. Yeah. Is he still alive? No.

No. He died when I was in prison. Oh, did he? Okay. Would he visit you in prison? He visited me a few times in prison, a few times. My mom came every two weeks, but he came maybe three times. Wow, your mom came every two weeks.

Every two weeks. When I was at Coleman for 12 years. Oh, you were at Coleman? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I was in the county jail for a year, so she didn't do that. At that period, she came a few times.

But when I got to Coleman, it was every two weeks. No shit. I think she missed a month one time when she had her stroke. Oh, wow. That's a good mom right there. Yeah, she was a gangster. Wow. Yeah, my mom was a thug.

What was the worst part of prison? Because you were a lot of years in there. So you had time to adapt? Yeah. It's, you know, it's funny because, like, probably the worst things. I heard the food's great. You know what's the problem? The food is that, you know, it wasn't great.

But I never expected it to be great. Like when we did like, but I mean, oh, you'd be shocked how these guys complain. Are you serious? Are you fucking believe they were serving this shit? It's like, well, wait a second. Like it's a fucking Michelin, you know, restaurant. Yeah, I was like, bro, well, like when you were selling crack on the corner, you were robbing banks. Exactly.

Did you think, well, if I get arrested and go to prison for 10 years, at least they'll serve me good food? Like, no. I thought I'd saw Shawshank. Slop. Like it's gray. It's a gray thing that you're going to eat. Maybe it has some maggots in it. Yeah.

get used to it. Yeah. Pick them out. And that's what I genuinely thought. So when I first got there, I was amazed at how good the food was. Wow. You know, and the problem is it's very repetitious. Oh, you get the same thing like every Monday?

Yeah. Kind of like there's more like a three week cycle. Ah, okay. So you do get a lot of the same stuff. And there were some meals where you're like, eh, I used to say they'd be like, this meal, this fucking sucks. And I'd be like, that's a challenging meal. It's a challenge.

Yeah. Was it enough, though, to fill you up? It was enough. Really? Wow. say 30% of the meals were not only acceptable, they were good. Wow. Like fried chicken, pizza, you know, like they had hamburger day.

Wow. You got french fries. You know, look, were they- It's like summer camp guys? Right. Were they crispy french fries from McDonald's? No, they weren't. But you're in prison.

Right. Suck it up. Yeah. But so there were, and then there were some meals where it was like, like, I didn't like this meal, but like it was, you know, rice and beans. It's like, I don't like it, but the Mexican guys love it. Yeah, right. You know, so that wasn't my meal.

Right. Sometimes they serve liver. Guys would have tons of liver. I can't stand liver. But there were guys like, bro, liver. You're going to eat your liver cock? Oh, my God. Yeah, like here, take it.

And there's the thing. You can eat out of your locker. Like you go to commissary, so you can get a soup. Okay. You know, you can buy soups. You can buy some stuff from commissary if you have a job, if people send you money or something. So if you don't like it, well, then you say, well, you say, well, Go down to your locker.

So it's not just candy bars at the commissary. No, no. There's other stuff as well. No, there's other stuff. Okay. So anyway, you know, I would say that the food was much better than I thought, much better than I thought. You know, it's not perfect. But, and listen, and this is another thing killed it.

Like, they give you, they call them holiday meals, right? For like Thanksgiving. Yeah. This is like your mom made Thanksgiving. Turkey stuffing, the whole bit, yeah. Sick to your stomach so much food that it's insane. Same thing with, you know, Christmas. Same thing with.

You know, listen, they, it was so funny for, like, Halloween and stuff. Yeah. Like, I'm not Halloween for, I think it was like New Year. Like, they would literally close up the unit's down. And they, they have you come out in a line and you go and you get cookies and you get hot chocolate. Holy shit. And I would sit there and I think, and guys would be like, man, you're going to go get your hot chocolate. Man, that's a bullshit.

I'm like, bet you're going to be in the line. Yeah, exactly. And they're like, yeah. And it's like, first of all, it's humiliating, but secondly, you don't deserve that. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, this is insane. They give you a Christmas bag.

They give you a, you don't know what a Christmas bag is. Christmas bag is a bag, and they give you like potato chit, little different types of potato chips you can't buy. Yeah. And they'll give you different stuff. And guys would complain. Oh, my God. When I got, first got locked up, we used to get two of these. They were twice as big.

And then it would down to one. Now the bag's half as big. It's like, bro, you're all big cropper. Yeah, exactly. They're giving you a Christmas bag. Uh-huh. They have a Christmas tree in the unit. Oh, my God.

Listen, one time, one time they didn't put the Christmas tree up in the unit. They weren't going to. And so I said to the head orally, he was a biker. Yeah. He didn't want to do it. And I went, bro, where's the Christmas tree? He's like, yeah, we're not doing it. I ain't doing that shit.

And I went, what do you mean? you're not doing it he's like I'm not doing them and he was why he's we're in prison I went first of all I said you're leaving in a year yeah I said I'm gonna be here a long time I said and guys used to do this too where I'd say hey well where do you live and they'd be like well I live in Tampa that bro you've been here 10 years you got another five years to go you live in B3 yeah like you could tell yourself that oh you say my house yeah listen I lived in B4 yeah so I'm like I live here I want I want the Christmas tree yeah I would I got I went through the counselor, and I said, look, I want the Christmas tree up.

Why won't we have a Christmas tree? And they'd be like, well, they don't want to put it up. Like, who? Billy? Yeah. Billy, the jackass with the handlebar mustache. Can I put it up? Yeah. I said, I live here.

I want to see the Christmas tree. Right. And she goes, fucking cox. She said, listen, you get as many people. She's, I'm leaving in an hour. You have as many people in the unit want. And if there's enough people that ask for it, I'll put it up. I had like 20, 25 guys go and knock on the door and go,

Christmas tree. Nice. Guys are like, I'm not doing that. I'd go, bro, you ever want anything from me. Yeah. You need to go. They'd like, you're fucking dick. Yeah.

And then they'd go and they'd knock on the thing. Listen, we got the Christmas tree. Yeah. Good. It's stupid. Right. Not really. Yeah.

But it's, you know, that's your home right now. They have MP3 players there. Yeah. That cuts, I swear, that cuts 30% of your time off by having music. Yeah. You get to walk the track. You get to listen to it all the problem. The problem is, too.

What do you check it in and out, that type thing? No, no. You can buy it. Oh, okay. And you can download music. They sell you music for $1.33, a download for your music. Well, that's what we fucking pay on iTunes. Oh, is it?

Yeah. Oh, but this is, I would have said it was expensive because they always say that it was like... It's expensive when you have $5 in your fucking account. Yeah. Yeah, then it is, yeah. Yeah. So you did that, and you could listen to the music. And that's big because it's so loud in prison.

People are always like, oh, it's lonely and it's quiet. No, it's not. No, it's low. Yeah, it's low. For a loneliness. You know, I was shocked to find out. there's a whole dating online thing with inmates and people outside yeah we actually had a fucking employee a cleanup tech that sought out a guy at Coleman okay ended up marrying that

motherfucker when he got out had a kid with them and then of course now they're divorced but she was like 47 and he was like 23 yeah that could see that happening I didn't know that you guys could do the dating thing online yeah well you have somebody else kind of do it you write a profile somebody else puts you on there's like pin pal whatever yeah and then they get on core links and so core links is the email system so you basically send it's almost like a text message like you know you send an email then they go on the they get it then they can type something and they can send it back to you and um they can come and visit yeah she did that yeah she came and visited eventually they got married she put money on his book a lot of guys will pretend

Yeah, just to get the money. Super interested in some woman so that she's putting a few. But let's be honest. What does it take for a woman that's in the free world to seek out a guy that's incarcerated for many, many years? Yeah. What is she really looking for? I mean, it's probably very safe to her. Like, you know, she's got it.

She can say she has a boyfriend. He doesn't take a lot of time. He needs her. You know, it's semi-companionship. But there's also just weirdos where there are women in prison who are contacted by guys that literally want to date a woman in prison. They're fascinated by their crime. They're fascinated by that she's locked up.

The prison panty thing. I found out about that too. They love that shit. There's a lot of shit, man. People are disturbed. You know that more than anybody. People are weirdos. They've got some crazy fetishes.

It just seems like, you know, these women are so dexterity. for a relationship and they're tired of getting fucked over so they feel like a guy that's incarcerated is safe is not only safe but has their undivided attention oh and no doubt that's what it is well and then think about too and then they get out and they think they're going to be um loyal oh yeah and they're not fuck now this guy's a he's a comeback he's his comeback um he was a drug dealer you know what's funny is so i was on a program called american greed uh-huh this is i love that show okay You've been on that.

Yeah, they did a one-hour special. Shut the front door. I love it. And it's all here in Tampa. Yeah. It was Ebor City. No shit. I bought 109 houses in Ebor City.

Oh, love it. You probably bought some that I own now. Maybe. Kind of owned a bunch on Columbus. Yeah, that's where mine is. Columbus and ninth. Yeah. I owned like five or six houses on Amelia Street.

Mm-hmm. So you've never heard this one, Connor. You're going to like this. I had a guy. Right. So first of all, let me tell you. SIS is like the FBI inside prison. Like they investigate the other officers. They investigate more complex crimes. So I, after I've been locked up, I'll wrap it up. After I've been locked up, I came out on American Greed, did a one-hour special.

I started getting letters from a guy. And he said his name, Ted Underhill. Well, I don't know if Ted Underhill is a famous character by Chevy Chase. It's just, it's ridiculous, right? Okay. Underhill and such and such, you know, law firm, whatever. So the guy writes me a letter and says, Dear Mr. Cox, he said he was a lawyer.

They've taken up my case. They've appealed to the, you know, everything about the letter was wrong. Yeah. The district court has said, okay, well, there's no district court. Yeah. And the DA, there's no DA. It's a U.S. attorney. Everything's wrong.

And he just, for two pages, he went on and on about how he was going to getting my, they were going to have this model that was that it was in factuary waiting, she was going to be waiting in a limo when I got out. It was so just stupid. So I read the whole thing and I'm kind of like laughing about it. And then in like the last paragraph

or two, he says, you'll no longer have to eat food where the inmates have masturbated into the food and you're eating toenails. You'll no longer have to be subject to rapes. And don't worry. Don't worry. The model loves the fact

that you look like a monkey. And I would, and don't be, don't be offended by that. He said lots of people look like monkeys. It's not a big deal. Like he really, like, what the fuck? But I'm reading this letter.

Like, it's already ridiculous. Yeah. Here's the funny thing about it is I take letter and I'm like, this is ridiculous. Yeah. You know, I put in my locker. Yeah, yeah. About a month later, I get another letter.

From the same guy. Yeah. Good news. Your appeal's going well. We've spoken with the judge. he's agreed to knock off this much time blah blah blah writes that letter you'll be released your new release date is next year

we're trying to get you into a halfway house now once again starts talking about toenails in the food and you know I put the letter up a month later I get another letter and it says unfortunately they've charged me with another crime and they've added an additional

50 years although my sentence was reduced this goes on for you know he did miss a month or two yeah two three years I have like I end up with like 30 letters wow so one day I get a call to SIS and I go there to SIS and I knock on the door and it's a guy named Saconne I remember Sacon goes he said um Cox we we got a really disturbing letter in the mail and he has it and he goes it looks like this guy may have been writing you do you know who this is and I go Underhill

that's Ted Underhill and he goes do you know him and I went no no I don't know him I assume he saw one of these programs he talks about my victim and how they're going to at this point he's gonna they're going to kidnap me and they're the plot to kill me yeah yeah yeah they talk to the FBI for me and I'm like you know Ted Underhill and I go through the whole thing and he goes

I mean, he's talking about you being hurt and them kidnapping you and doing this. He's like, and he goes, you have other letters like this? I go, yeah, I have about like 20 or 30 of them. I've kept almost all of them. And he went, you don't like, Socoma was a really cool guy. He goes, you don't have to put up with this. And I go, nah, bro. I said, it's okay.

I said, it's like we're doing time together. I said, he's down for me, right? I said, it's good. He goes, he goes, do you ever write them back? I said, no. I said, it's different addresses. There's obviously, the letters come back. Because I did write him one time and the letter came back.

I said, but I said, this guy's doing time with me. Uh-huh. Like, we're, he's, he's, he's, he's in this with me. And he goes, he's starting. There's, like, are you crazy? Uh-huh. And I'm like, no, I said, it's funny because I get the letters. Right.

Just read the part about the monkey. Yeah. And he's like, he said, you look like a monkey. I said, I know it's funny. And he's like, the cone's like, okay, I don't. Can I have the letter? I'm going to add it to my collection. Yeah.

And he's like, I. yeah if you want the letter so you never found out who it was no he eventually he stopped writing one time for six months I probably had ended up with 20 or 30 letters wow I don't know what happened to letters either but they were hilarious but there are weirdos

yeah oh I got letters from girls that had seen oh I'm sure and wanted to communicate with me I never wrote them back you know I had I did have one guy who said he wanted me to draw something for him and said he'd put money on my books if I did. He ended up putting like 50 bucks on my books. And then I sent him a picture.

And he came back. He said, could you do another one in color? I said, yeah, the problem is you need colored pencils. Yeah. And he said, how much would that be? I said, I'd be a couple hundred bucks. So he goes, okay, he put $200 on my books. And I would you draw for him?

I drew a picture of, I drew a picture. It was kind of like, did you ever see? Oh, God. I actually have a picture over there. It's a Metropolitan, Metropolis. Yeah. Yeah, the robot from Metropolis. Okay.

A couple different designs. Like, it wasn't anything weird. That's what he requested. He wanted that. Okay. And then he think he wanted a picture of Madonna. I think he was gay because he mentioned Madonna like three times. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You know, he loves Madonna. It's a little odd. And when I read the letters mentally in my head, I could hear a Lisp. Nice guy, though. Yeah. Put the, put money on my books. And I remember I had a friend who in there, he's like,

bro, what if this guy, like, wants to come see you? And I go, he can come see me. Yeah, he goes to shit. And he goes, yeah, but I go, he's putting money on my books. I got a lot of time, bro. Yeah. And he goes, what if, what if he, like, wants, like, like a hug or something? And I go, it's just a hug.

I got a lot of time. He's putting money. He goes, what if he wants a kiss? And I go, I mean, it's just a kiss. I mean, he goes, what if it's more than, what if he wants, like, maybe to make out or something? I go, I got a lot of time. Okay. you know that's awesome he was like you're a six sick that's awesome but he eventually uh he dropped off

too yeah well they all do they can't do the time for that long right no no they can't do they can't do my time in their living room my god and you know everybody thinks that rapes are rampant oh in prison and my experience which is not you know which is limited they're not no no not at all no it's also like that you have to join a gang yeah and you're going to get staffed And you're going to stop it, stop it, man. And look, there are prisons. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Yeah, I think federal might be safer than...

Definitely. Federal space is way safer than state. And every state is different. Yeah. California state prisons are horribly notorious for extreme violence and gangs and rapes. Yeah. I think the differences, and I always say this, like, the problem with most federal prisons is that if you get stabbed in federal prison or in prison in general,

Like, you had it coming. Like, they didn't just randomly stab you. Like, you ran up a debt. You didn't pay. Yeah. They probably came to you and said, look, you owe Tom $400. You've been gambling. You owe him $400.

You have to either work out a deal to pay it somehow or make payments or you have to check in and go to another prison. And guys, oh, fuck him, he ain't going to do nothing. Okay. Now, he's not going to sue you. Yeah. You're going to get stabbed. He's going to stab you.

Yeah. And the other thing is, like, and rape, like, there's tons of gay guys. prison yeah they don't need to rape anybody you need to buy the guy of new pair of tennis shoes right he's now your boyfriend right right right right exactly so how many of the guards are dirty so when I was there I would say not many not many not that there weren't some yeah look you don't to do some real damage you they're going to be 50 guards that have two of them are dirty they can be bringing in cell phones oh yeah it could really yeah really make things a problem for the rest of the institution in general.

The problem is after COVID, they went through and they asked a lot of the guards that have been there for a long time to please retire. So they retired and they hired new guards at a much lower rate. The problem with those guards is the senior guard in Coleman Lowe right now has like two years experience. He doesn't know how things work the way this guy who's been doing it for 15 years. Right, right. So he's not on top of it.

And they are not making very much. much money at all. Well, that's why I find, well, they're, yeah, they're ripe for there supposedly there was a shakedown at the low a couple months ago. They pulled like 200 phones. This 1800 guys. They got like 200 cell phones. Wow. It's insane. My buddy Pete said, oh, if you want a cell phone, he goes, you can get a cell phone. Like this is not, it's not a joke. You could, you can make a call. You can get a call. You can text people. You think that they would block the cell towers though around the present. Then that interferes. Yeah, with the guards. Yeah. It's It's, you know.

So cell phones, drugs, easy to get? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So now it's worse than ever when I was in. But then again, I don't, you know, I wasn't trying to use a cell phone. Yeah. And I had multiple times guys offer me, well, if you need a cell phone or if you need to use one, no, I'm good. Yeah. I don't have anybody. I want to text or call.

I'm not interested in getting tied up in that. And then, of course, you've got your number in the history now. Now they check it against your phone record. Oh, yeah. Oh, you obviously, somebody's calling somebody on your, you're involved, go to the shoot for 30 days or 60 days. But back to you. You're way more interesting. No.

Connor hates me. Like everybody, like guys, people come on the show and they think I'm entertaining and funny everything. Half the time I'll glance at Connor and he just, he's disgusted by me. Connor's not easily impressed. No, he's not. He's not. He's over me. I think the first month or two he thought hey pretty interesting guy yeah after a year he's like

he's like I've heard all these fucking stories I'm over it yeah it's like my girlfriend she's not impressed anymore yeah she's like okay you're something different then you got about 10 hours of entertainment in yeah and then it's just I'm over it yeah at this one um yeah so that's it or unless you can you think of anything else you want people to go to your channel not that anything anything anything anything You want to bring up, maybe talk about the, um, if you want to get more involved in it, I think it's stuff.

Oh, yeah, like the training stuff. Yeah. So it's much more relaxed than these guys thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is definitely different.

Danny, Danny will be better. Danny will be better. Danny's more professional. He has like a real studio. He's got real, he's like, he's like,

he's better at it. He's like, we got the, We got two black tarps, and we used them on the podcast, fucking decon. Yeah. We have two black tarps, and then these mics, and we put it up, take it down. Oh, okay. It's amazing how professional this comes off.

Totally. Like, when you go to the channel and look at it, you're like, wow, like, oh, they're in a studio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's what you make it look like. Yeah, this is way more than we had. so you want to talk uh people getting involved yeah so like you know not everybody wants to own a franchise right maybe some people just want to learn how to do crime scene cleanup and do it as a side gig or do it on

their own and so yeah just like i did so what i did is i created courses online they can just take the course and i teach them how to do everything that they need to know and it's you know crime scene cleaning dot thinkgific dot com that's it dot what is it thinkific that's a teaching platform okay um You can put any courses on there. You can, hey, how do you do mortgage fraud? Right. Make a course on that. Probably fucking sell out.

So can you get certified? Yeah. So there's no like national certification for this type of thing. Right. So we give you a certification that same we give our franchisees. Yeah. And, you know, contracts, how to market. This business is hard to market, which you can imagine.

You buy one, get one free, dead body. Yeah. So, yeah. So, okay. What about the, it's the same, you don't get assertive, to clean up, like, meth labs, you don't get, you get like a certain, there's not a national thing. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. You have to have a license to give a person a mortgage, but you don't have to have a license to clean up a meth lab. To properly clean up a meth lab. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? It's all about the money. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Yeah. You can find the courses and your YouTube channel is. Yeah, the YouTube, like I said, if you like that type of stuff, it's uncensored. So if you're squeamish, maybe not for you. But, you know, just go to YouTube on crime scene cleaning. And you've got everything there.

Appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor. And if you like the video, do me a favor. And hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, leave me a comment. Share the video, which is something I forget to tell people to do. But everybody's constantly commenting in the comment section like, bro, I don't understand why your channel, you know, isn't blowing up.

Well, you're not sharing the video. So share the video, hit the like thing, leave the comment, do all that. And look, if you really like the video and you're like, I don't understand, like, this is a great video. It doesn't have enough, he doesn't have enough subscribers and he doesn't have enough views. Well, you know, what you could do is you could just thank me by hitting the thank you button and it allows you to donate like $1.99. Do you have that?

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. I think, yeah. I have a bunch of people that have done $49,99, like, like, and, you know, $1. and i have a patreon like ten dollars it's nothing it's nothing okay anyway that's enough all right thank you appreciate it see you