Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Hostage Situation No One Saw Coming And How She Escaped

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

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I felt more safe with scarier types of men. He had tracking stuff on my phone. I couldn't reach out to family, that this man was gonna be a villain in my life. I'd never had anybody be that cruel. Sorry. Sorry. My dad is biker, had biker friends,

biker-affiliated friends. And I, even at a young age, I feel like I glorified anything that was on the other side of it. We were in an urban area. where I feel like that impacted who I was in my juvenile years quite a bit. It was a rough area that I grew up in. But I grew up really just not having any ambition. I don't remember having any ambition to be better than anybody I was around.

It just felt like I was destined to do something wrong. I feel like, you know, there wasn't really anybody that was guiding me to do better. It was very bizarre looking back now that I'm a parent. about how I with there wasn't anybody like pushing me really hard for school or pushing me to like figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up it was just I was just kind of like kids are meant to be seen not heard type of a thing ultimately he kicked me out from being kind of a troubled youth kid how old was that I was 15 what was the trouble I kept getting in trouble he and I were clashing his lifestyle and my lifestyle and his lack of giving me any freedom my my grades my getting in trouble fighting whatever it was looking back, I do believe that I had, I became a bully so that I wasn't getting bullied, which was interesting because I didn't realize that I was like a follower until I became older and had a teenage daughter. And I realized like I was kind of a schmuck of a kid. But he kicked me out and I went back to my mom's in a small town in West Virginia.

And that in itself was kind of a nightmare because I was accustomed to New Bedford, Massachusetts. as I talked funny. I had a different perception of what people were like. And then I was the new kid. And it took me no time to just gravitate towards other people that were similarly broken to me. Right. And I definitely.

The misfit crowd. There's that high school that sometimes they're golf, sometimes they're, you know. Yeah. My mom thought that I was trying to find like the bad boy, but it really had nothing to do with that. I feel like I craved some type of strange. toxic masculinity based off of like my relationship with my dad. I feel like I really just liked people that were doing, not doing things wrong, but I felt more safe with, um, scarier types of

men, I guess I would, I would say that carried, that stayed with me all up until Mike, really. Right. Um, but in West Virginia, I realized that people are a lot different than Massachusetts. Massachusetts, Massachusetts, you could get into a fight. Nobody's going to call the cops. People aren't telling on each other up there the same way as they were in West Virginia. And I realized quickly I was going to be getting in trouble. And I did.

I ended up definitely getting in with the wrong crowd, which is very typical. But I loved it. I enjoyed being in West Virginia because it was easier to make fast money in West Virginia. I just developed into, man, I just... What's fast money? What do you mean make fast money? Well, so I had never known. When I left New Bedford, I drank and taken some clonopins or something.

But when I got to West Virginia, I'd never been in an area, especially at that age, where people were really, like, doing drugs. Like, I didn't grow up around drugs. I didn't grow up seeing people use drugs. I'm like, I'd never really been around. people that were selling drugs or doing drugs until I got to West Virginia. And it was, I'd never made money before either. I mean, when I got there, it was two months before I turned 16.

And then during my, while I was 16, we started selling pills. Friends and I started selling pills or selling their parents' pills. And it started over a decade journey that we're here to talk about today. You know, when you say pills, you mean just any pills. Colanopins, Vicodin, Percocet, Zana, yeah, the whole thing. And, I mean, I believe that my entire drug addiction was like my karma for helping other people's drug addictions long before I had my own. Because, I mean, I didn't, you know, you don't care when you're out there doing shit like that to people. You don't realize you're doing something to people.

You're just getting some money. And that's kind of how it went. I was functional. I don't believe that I was an addict until much later because something else I learned in West Virginia was about the existence of meth. I had never heard of speed before. In Massachusetts, I feel like there was like some crackheads, but like I'd never heard of speed in my life. West Virginia in my 20s is when I was exposed to speed and manufacturing. And that's when my life took a complete spiral. Is there, are they, like, is this someplace like they're making it there or are they bringing it in from Mexico? We were making it. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, not that stuff.

Okay. But I had already been, I had turned into, I broke the cardinal law and I was doing my own supply when it came to pain pills. And that went on for many years. And then we were sourcing from the pill mills here in Florida. So when they shut them down, everything changed in West Virginia. and they started making people go to pain clinics, and it wasn't as easy to get pain medicine. So around the same time that I quit,

well, not quit doing pain pills, but graduated into H. It was when I started to date a cook and learn the ropes of shake and bake, which is, or antihidrous cooking. And I had very little understanding of how dangerous being around that is. And because of that,

I was diagnosed with COPD. emphysema in 2019 when I was 33. Okay. I thought I was, again, you were going to say like explosions or like everybody I know. You see the scars though, those scars on my face. You want to recover to makeup. Those are from a lot, from lie from one. Yeah, I was going to say everybody I know that has been in that process at one point

or another. They thought it was completely safe and then suddenly boom, they get to just splash something on him and they've got a, I have a buddy who has a big old, welted up burn. Oh, yeah. I mean, and guys it on their neck. guy is it on their face on there it's it's awful at some point you miscalculate oh yeah oh yeah and it was um it was a volatile relationship it's uh which i believe was you know because we were using drugs um

he actually thrown a two-liter bottle that he was working he was cooking at me before it was it was just it was very um i can't believe that i stayed but that that drug had a grip on And in West Virginia, there's no, like, good guy, bad guy. It's like, there's no, like, cops and robbers. It's like the cops there will pay you to tell on people, even if you're a junkie or you're a tweaker. Like, they'll give you money to do it. So it's a whole different world over there.

And so there was always, like, investigations or people trying to, like, find the guy I was with. We had, I didn't know that we were running for two years, but we were until I got raided. Um, the cops had showed up to his mom's house. Um, and I didn't even know that his mom's house had a basement. It was this, it was a house that was probably condemned. They're still in this house. And, um, the cops show up.

And my ex-boyfriend had a breathing problem, probably the cooking of the meth. Right. And I was like, run, you know, and he can't. So the cops came in there and they questioned us about some other unrelated situation. and they were looking for his brother. But when they left, his brother came upstairs from that basement, and he was down there cooking speed. Oh.

Like, and I, and at that point. He didn't know they were there? No. Okay. But they were looking for him. And we were just like upstairs, just existing in this, you know, his poor mom, I've had so much guilt for what we, for what we put his poor mom through.

Awful. I should have stopped living that way, maybe at that point. But. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. But that's not what happened. You know, we, we continue to, to cook for two years.

Because when you're cooking there? Everywhere. Okay, sometimes he goes to a motel. Sometimes we're here. I didn't participate in his motel cooking because absolutely not. We go, we go various people's houses. It's crazy because when you're manufacturing meth, you don't have like all these people above you.

You have like whoever got you the boxes. You know, that's it. You give them a gram. They don't care. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. And I think that's what made it easier for me to be like, oh, this is a great business decision

because you only got to pay this tweaker off, like just a little bit and everything's fine. And you could pull it a couple times. So one box, you're pulling three batches. Like, but it didn't scare me yet. I don't remember having fear until much, much later. So the cops are looking for the brother. But they're obviously not looking for him at this point.

I thought, I couldn't believe that they didn't arrest him. He was wanted out of Ohio at that point. He didn't show up to go due time because he had gotten in trouble for cooking in Ohio. Yeah. You think that would be, you'd think, what do they call it, extraditable, you know, offense. Yeah, no, they, you know how in some states. Oh, yeah. They'll put a warrant out for you, two states over, and then they find you in this state,

but they're not going to, they're not going to pay to bring you back. That's true. We got to catch this guy in the state. Yep. He, we ran for two years. And like I said earlier, I didn't really believe we were running because we were just out there. We were just out there and doing whatever we wanted to do. And it didn't seem, he didn't seem particularly phased by it.

So I thought, you know. And, but our relationship was heavily impacted by the fact that we were running. He was a lot more stressed out than I was. are being rated was an actual nightmare. We had got this really tiny, like a little house, garage house thing. And the rule was couldn't cook there. That was never that because I had already began the process of my kids' dad having my daughter because it wasn't that she was taken from me.

It was that I was very aware what I was becoming. and I asked him and my mom like I'm I'm fucking up like I can't have her with me so he had her and that was the only house I was allowed to like have her at other than my mom's house I was able to have her at that particular little garage apartment and so cooking there was like out of the question and so I had decided that I was going to leave it was it was it was getting violent more me than him and it was getting, you know, more and more scary to just exist in that relationship. So I tried to leave. Ultimately, that didn't work because he was, he had tracked my cell phone to one of my best friend's houses.

And his brother called me and was like, if you don't go back and, you know, come out the house, it's going to be a Broadway musical at your friend's house. Like, you need to just come on. And he's been up for this many days and he's been doing this. and like you need to just come on and I'm like, fuck, you know. So I leave. We go back to the house and I think, fuck, this is just my life, right? We're there for like, I don't know, the evening and in the morning on the cameras,

I see, I mean, the DEA, the state police, the task force, we have the cameras. Every good tweaker has a camera. And they surrounded the house. And I remember like my blood pressure rising to where you hear like a nia because you're like, fuck, here it is. Like this is what's happening. And it was almost as if my boyfriend had vanished. It was like he was sitting beside me and then he was just gone.

And I remember thinking this is going to this is happening. I watched the, I don't know if it was the DA or the state police, one of the two, clip my camera. And I'm like, oh my God. and they start banging on the door and my dog, the love of my life, my dog is flipping the fuck out. And so

and I know maybe wasn't the right decision for other people that I did this, but I don't care. I love my dog. I was like, can I please? I'm like, can I let my dog out? Just let me let my fucking talk out. Like, just let me out. Because I know they wanted him. It really was about him. You know what I mean? They wanted to get him

out of there because it was like multiple states and guns and meth and whatever. So, they let me let the dog out. And when they let me out of the house, because I wasn't sure if they were going to arrest me yet, I got out, they ended up, like, getting him out of the roof somewhere in the installation.

But going around that little apartment, it was surrounded, you know, guns drawn, different suits, people in this color suit, that color suit, different vehicles. It was one of the most intense moments of probably my life, ultimately they arrested him that day and they came back for me a week later so how did they get to him like what did he did they have him on like a control by did they have him he was wanted and the landlord who we thought was their friend wasn't and the landlord

was complicit and like what was going on other parts of his property in the way of manufacturing but he he told he'd also told me that he didn't think I was going to be in the house because I had left for those four days. So I think that he was just informing and was hoping to get him. Originally, they had found some type of trash because those four days I was gone, apparently he had cooked in that little garage apartment. I was not there for that. So when it came down to us dealing, because we were indicted and all these things happened. And they, the speed shouldn't test positive, even though we had, like, decided to, like, take pleas. And, yeah, they came back and got me a week later.

Same thing, or they just bang on the door or wait for you to pull up or? No, I was just, I was still there. I was at a, so. I'm saying it was the same type of raid? No, no, no. Just bang on the door. No, no, no. They just came back to the same property.

There was multiple different little, not houses, like the trailer here. It was just a typical hills, like a hauler area with a bunch of just like one bedroom here, one bedroom here, the garage apartment. And this guy just was renting it to everybody that was kind of supplying, I think, his own drug habit. We got indicted on manufacturing, conspiracy to manufacture, and maintaining a dwelling for the same. and consumption or something of controlled substances. But ultimately, they only charged me with the maintaining a dwelling because my name was on the house. And they charged him with the manufacturing.

And it was crazy originally. I was looking at 3 to 15. And I thought, fuck, you know. And he had the maintaining over the dwelling because I would. really wasn't there. So all the surveillance that they had, I was not there for that. I had to. This is state, right? It was a state charge or federal? You said it was. Yeah, they were there because of his, his Ohio charges. Yeah. The DA. I was going to say, well, also, if it's a, if it's related to a drug task force, sometimes the DA will be a part of those task force,

but they almost always go, go state. Oh, yeah. It was definitely the state police, the task forest, the DEA, it was, it was scary. It was definitely scary. And you would have thought that I would have stopped that life then. Right. And, and, and I didn't. I'm the only person I know that's, that was hit with a year for a misdemeanor. And that was the maintaining at the dwelling. Yeah. Okay. I still had to do time over, over, over a misdemeanor. People are just like getting out all over the place on felonies. And I had to go to time that, that, that judge, because I wouldn't tell on him. I was a mistake. My lawyer was so mad.

So mad. And he's already going to prison. Yeah, he ended up doing seven years because he had to do Ohio and then West Virginia time. That's silly. That was awful. My lawyer was pissed. But yeah, so they gave me the year. And he wouldn't give me the year in a day.

So I could go to prison, prison. I had to do that whole time in county. So if you don't get a year and a day, do you still get good time? Yeah. Okay. I think in Florida, or was it the Fed? I think in the Fed, if they give you a year, but they don't give you like a year and a day, then I think in the Fed you don't get good time.

So you end up, if they're like a year and a day, well, then you do eight months or nine months. But if they give you a year, you do the whole year. They allowed me to work it off to work like five months of my time off in county. But what's crazy is like I was the only, do you know anybody? that had to do actual, like a little bit of time on a misdemeanor? No. Ridiculous. No, the first time you get in trouble, you practically don't do time for a felony.

A lot of times, depending on how much, depending on the crime, but I mean, a lot of felonies. First felony, I got, first time I got arrested and got a felony, I got three years probation. No shit. My mom still says, well, you've got felonies. I actually don't. Actually don't, but, you know, yeah. County in West Virginia is like, I would hate to get. get in trouble in other states because West Virginia was like easy be easy it was not you know like

terrible I have a lot of friends that I have friends in the feds out in California and there's it's just incredibly different to get in trouble I think in the state of West Virginia um every state and every state's different I get people in the comments who are like that's not how it is and that's not it's like stop it bro like you're in you're in you're in a Wisconsin or you're in like this guy's talking about being arrested in Georgia, you know, like every state is different. It's very different. Some states will give you 20 years. I know a guy that got 20 years.

He did three years. You know what I'm saying? And it's like they're like 10 years suspended. You only have to do this much for this. If you take a drug program, you get off this month. Like you start adding up. Like the guy did three years on a 20 year sentence. Then you have other guys who get seven years and they do every single day of the seven years.

And then in some states, I hear these guys talking about, you know, playing, you know, PlayStation or Xbox and they have a TV in their cell and it's like, are you out of your fucking I have friends right now that are in there. They have a G-shock watch. They have a PlayStation. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's, I mean, good for them, but it's so unfair.

Good for them, but it doesn't, it doesn't exactly make them not want to go back. They're like, oh, just go back, you know, see my friends. But West Virginia, it was like the cops were under, well, the cops, the correction officers were underpaid, so they were easily manipulated. Yeah, you know. But I will say that it didn't make me like a better person being in there, but it definitely was an experience. It wasn't a very long experience like what you've had,

and a lot of my friends have had. But, you know, you make the most strangest of connections in jail because people are underpaid. It's the guards are easily bought off. I had a friend in the street that would give this lady guard, pay her like 50 bucks, and she'd bring me a big league chew thing full of tobacco. Oh, yeah. And that's probably worth 500 bucks or a thousand bucks.

Listen, it was crazy how much, you know, how far tobacco would go or just one suboxone strips. People coming in there are sick. It was, it was crazy. You know, and it's what's sad looking back is how I really thought I was going to like, I would tell my family I was going to change. I'd never been like away from them. like that or my dog um but i really did think that i was going to turn it around when i got out and i didn't and i have friends in there that with all their felonies kept calling me a

misdemeanor wiener the whole time i was in there did you go yeah like seven months maybe nothing important you know but it was you go to a halfway house or they just let you out they let me out because i because i was a trustee yeah i worked Oh, yeah. I think that people really benefit from probation, but even if they would have offered it to me, I would have stayed until they would have let me out because I already knew, like, what I was

in the way of, like, drug addiction. I'd make everybody go to a halfway house. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, to me, well, I mean, I guess that's not necessarily true. Some people, they have family and they have the means that it doesn't. But to me, sometimes when these people are like, oh, yeah, he didn't get,

he got two months, we're only given a two months halfway house. This guy's been locked up 20 years. He has no family. You think he's going to get a job, save up enough money, you know, in two months to get himself back on his feet? Like, I'll tell you what he's going to do. He's going to get a buddy to drive him down the street and wait outside the bank. Yeah. He's going to rob a bank and get back in the car.

Absolutely. He's going to rob somebody. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that happen over and over again. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or guys are in the halfway house robbing banks and people are like, you know, oh, he's horrible.

They gave him two months halfway house. What? You didn't have a job for a month and a half. Like, you got two weeks who have a job. he got one paycheck and he went and robbed the bank like what's he going to do two months isn't going to change isn't you know it's not it's not long enough um i actually don't think that i have many friends that were in halfway houses after prison very long either in west virginia i think every state is every state is some states have the ability to do it sometimes it's like oh we'd love to give you a year halfway house

but there's no facility that the most you can get is a month and a half or two months or so you know some states are designed for some some states are yeah california and new york the more liberal states probably give you more halfway house because they're probably helping to transition you more. But then also the problem with that is people take advantage of that. Oh, yeah. Anything I would say, you know, anything you do for inmates, they tend to try and ruin it.

They take advantage of it and it ruins it for the people that really need it. That's very true. I feel like there is a lot of people that do need the rehabilitation afterwards because I don't think that like those places are really rehabilitated. anybody. Oh, no. You have to make an extreme effort on you. You have to have a lot go right. So when you got out, what'd you do? You go back to your, your, your, your, or like, where did you go? Do you have a friend to stay with? While I was in there, my mom had decided she was going to divorce my stepdad and she was going to move to Florida. And I had made such a negative impact on

her during those years that I talked to her while I was in jail and she was. It was like, I'm moving to Florida. Don't fucking follow me. Oh. So, okay. And so when I got out, I was still able to go home to my stepdad's house. And I stayed with him until I actually left for the state of West Virginia. He's, I have my dad and I have my stepdad, my former stepdad, but he's like my primary,

like traditional father-daughter relationship and more friends with my biological dad. But I stayed with him for the following almost two years. and I somehow was worse afterwards. After getting out, I was just worse. My drug addiction worsened. Needles came into play. Because prior to my going to jail, I wasn't a needle user. I had used them like maybe once or twice.

But I became like a, I didn't realize I had become a full-blown, like, junkie until I was like sharpening needles on a match bog so that I could hit. And it was like, okay, fuck. I think everybody else knew I was junky before I did. Right. You know, probably for a good, good while, because I'd been doing drugs continually since I was like 16. H will make you not just like a perpetual criminal,

but it'll make you like a dumb-ass criminal. Like you'll do the dumbest things, you know, to get just a little bit to add to the piece to get what you're getting. And my friend, one of my best friends, and I have huge guilt issues about it. But he was such a successful, dealer locally there. He was a little younger than me.

He's still one of my best friends. He's a little of him to death. But I would rob him. I mean, we were selling grass. I would like take way more than I should have. And I'm trading it to my other buddy over here so that I could fund my habits. So, you know, a lot of my friends were in the street doing all kinds of shit to stay on to not be sick. And I was, you know, robbing my best friend to.

Are you able to work at all? Or is this your primary thing is just going from? I just started a legal job, and it had been since 2005 since I had a legal job for over 30 days. You mean just now? Just last month is the first legal job I've had. So when you got out, this is all you're doing. You're scraping together. It's all I did beforehand.

It's all I did after it. Yeah, I was just, you know, corner cutting, selling this, selling that, you know. So I had really good connections, and I was able to, you know, you. use one to pay for the other and just one of those things where looking back, I'm grateful because I didn't have to do things that my other friends were doing like with their bodies and things like that, which I don't know that. I mean, that could have just as easily been me if I didn't have access to the amount of grass. I had. IV drug addiction. That'll shake your soul up, that stuff. I don't know how many addicts you have had on this

on your show. Yeah, a few. I'd say 50% of the people I interview. You know, like I don't have really an understanding of it, but I was sharing both. It was it was just warped. It was a very warped experience to be like that. Oh, I was going to say, like are you selling it at all? Just the grass. Because when the needle became part of my life, and I tell people this even now, that you don't, it really makes you the worst version of yourself. like the absolute worst version of myself.

Like when I look back and see the videos or just think of like the ways that I treated people or the absence from my kid, wow, like I couldn't fathom being like that now. But back then, I mean, I was just, it was the most important thing to me was making sure that I had what I needed to not be sick. What are the videos?

You mentioned that you had taken videos. So when I was like four, my grandma surely got me a, diary and I always journaled for some reason documenting was so important to me and I think it I think in part it had more to do with I needed to get out how I felt somewhere because really I wasn't super expressive about like feelings to anybody you know and whenever cell phones got video capabilities I started to video just video journal I wasn't posting them that was it was the plan was never to post junkie videos on on the internet but um when

I began isolating after jail, I videoed all the time because I didn't have anyone other than my dog that I was actually really like talking to, which sounds awful, but it's true. But so I videoed and I video day after day. And I just kind of assumed that I wasn't going to make it out of that house, out of that particular basement, my stepdad's house, and that somebody would have my phone with my Google Drive and they would see all these videos where I'm talking about what's going on. and maybe explain more of what happened. Every time I tried to quit using dope, I'd video the withdrawal.

I mean, it was just a journey. The first four years in my recovery, I couldn't watch them because it was just, it was too much for me. And then four years in, I saw that recovery challenge, hashtag recovery challenge and started watching these videos, and then I started sharing these videos. And that's what I do now with my platform. but I have all that content because I just

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to speak to an advisor Free of charge. BetMGEM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Fucked up, sitting in a bathroom or in a basement, like just videoing how I thought, how I felt, literally using a lot of the videos I have, I can't share because I'm injecting

or, you know, I'm overdosing. There's terrible videos. It's been really, it's been a huge tool for me in recovery for sure. So, so real quick, so you had gotten out, you're at the, you're at your, X step five.

fathers, you're actively or you're active in addiction. Yes. Do you get arrested again? No. No. How long ago was that? What year was that? That was 2017.

Well, when I left West Virginia, it was the summer of 2017. I got out of jail and the end of 2015. Okay. So that goes on. So at some point during this, that's when you said there was the Facebook. There was that challenge? No. Four years later.

So in 2021, 21. Yeah, 2021 is when I started sharing the videos. I'd already been in recovery. I already quit using. When did that happen? When do you decide? Like, after you got out, how long do you go before you said, like, what was there, a catalyst where you said, fuck, I got us.

This isn't working for me. me. Yeah, there's a big catalyst. And what's funny is like when I was driving, we were driving here, I was like, you know, just thinking about different things that I wanted to talk about. And what I don't ever talk about on my platform is really like the big catalyst. So we'll talk about that. So my poor stepdad, you know, just dealing with bringing me back to life and all the junkie shit I was doing in his house. It was just terrible. He leaves, house gets foreclosed, whatever. And I get offered a job out West by this man and he worked in the cannabis industry, not that man, but he worked in the cannabis industry.

And what I didn't know then was that he was, you know, rumored to be a federal informant. I didn't know at that point. So he comes to West Virginia. he was actually the primary source of my buddy I was Robin. It was his connect. So he was like, you know, move out west. I'll give you a job. I have a cannabis company.

Like, you can stop shooting dope. Like, we'll get your kid back. And, you know, all sounded fucking great, right? So I moved to Oregon. This is the summer of 2017. I moved to Oregon. He was like, the sun and the moon set with this guy's ass. I always just thought, this is going to change.

changed my life. He had this facility, employees, cars, and he was just so nice. And he was like, we're going to do this. You're going to change your life. I'm going to put you in a position to be successful. Cool. So I go out there for a couple weeks. I'm like, this is what I want to do. Like, this is, this is it. Everything's going to change. Go back to West Virginia. Get my dog. Go back out west. I'm out there a couple months before I really realized that the needle thing that we were, that I was told wasn't going to be going on. He was also a junkie. Like I knew he'd done pills, but he was extremely successful, like a very functional addict, and things really took a turn. Again, looking back, I think he was probably very stressed out by his life.

The catalyst that began my being like, okay, maybe I need to fucking stop doing this is out of nowhere. He became violent. I mean, I didn't see it coming. I would have never moved across the country. I thought for one second that this man was going to be a villain in my life. And he was very cruel. I'd never had anybody be that cruel. Sorry.

All right. We have. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thank you. Sorry, this is the best I got. That's perfect. I cry at least three times a week, maybe four times.

It's healthy sometimes, right? I'm sorry. He was such a bad person He knew that I was extremely I don't know if you're like a dog person Or anything like that But I'm like Love my dog

Like he passed away in February I have a huge tattoo on my leg Of him, my whole shin is this dog Like he I credit my life being saved In part to my dog But he Had my dog out there and he would, like I'd have to put my dogs a big pit bull in a different room so that he could knock me around.

And if I would fight back, he would threaten to harm my dog. So it became a very psychological thing. And how it helped me get off of the needle specifically was he was so volatile. And he would leave out like full rigged, full needles, full of H. And leave him out. And then he would leave the house. and he would come back and I wouldn't have done him, but he would beat my ass like I did.

And it became this very strange obstacle course. It was awful, and then he'd beat my ass for. I've never had anybody be that mean to me. He had tracking stuff on my phone. I couldn't reach out to family. I mean, it was very, it was awful. And as this is going on, he's losing his company. People are running for the hills.

I mean, people knew more than I did about what was going on in the West Coast. So while I'm not doing the drugs and I'm trying to stop using the drugs, my brother dies. My brother, I tell people trauma didn't lead me into addiction. Trauma led me out. My brother, he got cancer when he was 32. Oh, wow. And he'd never done a drug in his life. He never did a.

He wouldn't even jaywalk. My brother and I were very different. Best, best guy ever. Never did anything malicious to another human being his entire life. And then he ends up with cancer, a very aggressive lung cancer. And while I was out west, he dies. And that rocked me. And all he ever asked of me, the six months, I mean, while he was in hospice,

I came to see him in Florida when he was in hospice. And, you know, the months before that, like after he was diagnosed, he was just like, oh, well, you just got to pull your shit together. like you can't do this to mom. She can't lose us both. Like, what the fuck are you doing? You know? And so when he died, I was out there and, you know, getting my ass Pete and all these,

all these like factors were aligning to where it was helping me, like, get the mindset that I needed to kind of stop this, this narrative. Well, fast forward to November of 2017. I wasn't able, I don't want to say I wasn't able to leave him, but I was afraid. I was afraid of him. I was afraid of what he would do to my dog. He would get in trouble and nothing would happen to him. It was like the most bizarre thing that I'd ever seen.

What do you mean get in trouble? He was getting arrested by the cops. Yes, in several states. And I will never, like, I don't have any, his widow, he's passed away now, but his widow and I are very close. And none of it makes any. any sense. But so November, 2017, we were supposed to, he was losing his company. So we were supposed to pack up all the things in his facility. And we were supposed to go to West Virginia. We had a hotel in Dundee, Oregon, me, him, and this other man. And I had taken my dog to the

vet down the road after he and I had gotten to a fight. And when I went back, everything was gone. He was gone. Everything was gone. He took my tablets. He took my phone. I mean, and the room was paid for another three days. He was gone. And left me there with my dog, but, you know, left me there. And I was supposed to be on that trip with him because I wanted to go home. I wanted to go to West Virginia. He gets busted in Nebraska in Lincoln, Nebraska, with $1.1 million worth of shit from his facility. He was out the next day. And the other guy was out the next day. The other guy, like six months later in life. He gets busted again.

You can go, when we get off of here, I'll, you look this guy up. He gets busted again in Pittsburgh on 420. Nothing happens. A whole bunch of shit gets busted. He gets busted in West Virginia. Nothing fucking happens. And I'm like, what the fuck is really going on here?

I mean, is he cooperating with the, with the larger federal investigation or something? Yeah. So I believe, and this is just from his wife and I, and his people, he's screwed over, which the man you met earlier was, it's so crazy the full circle moment for he and I, the candy bar thing, but also that was somebody that he had screwed over too. Right.

He was two miles away from me where I was getting my ass beat out west, and I didn't even know him, and he was two miles away from where I was stuck at in Oregon. This is the man you met. Yeah, the guy you're with now. Yeah. And so he, how they met was, he was, he was randomly was in a cannabis cup. I believe that the feds placed him in a cannabis cup

or the secret cups that they had out there for cannabis. I don't know if you're familiar. I don't know what a cannabis cup is now. So before it became medicinal and legal out there, they would have like underground cups for cannabis where like different growers and different producers of oil would go out there and they would have people testing their strains.

A work show, okay. They win, they win like a cup for the best. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. And he just kind of appeared at one of those events. And then he was at the next one and the next one. But nobody could vet him. You know, so looking back, I mean, it's all very, very sketchy. Because the only thing is, like, if you were like an informant with the DEA and you were to get busted in Michigan driving through with, you know, with 200 pounds of, by the local cops, then you would, you know, you might get busted.

and then you might just say, hey, here's my DEA handlers. Yes. And then they'll make a phone call to that. How much was it? What happened? Okay, listen, that's a part of our investigation, let the guy go. And then you get let go. You might spend the night in jail.

It was bizarre. You might get to let go right there on the highway. No matter where we would be, we could go to a Hilton. No matter if he had money or not, we could go to a Hilton, we could get into a Hilton. And we were on planes just being reckless, traveling with things we should not have been traveling with. And we were just getting right through security.

No one gave a shit. And I don't know what facts. actors into any of that or what was dumb luck or or what but in that house that I was primarily being assaulted in there was two different people that came there to stay there like out of nowhere and I was a snoop and I went through the one man's belongings and he was a federal snitch was paperwork like I literally saw his paperwork and I remember telling my boyfriend at the time like hey this guy's a fucking snitch like we're going to get in trouble you're going to get in trouble for sure like oh no don't worry about it

I didn't know, you know, and I, you know, so that was kind of an inkling that something was weird because would they place another one with another one? Like, how does that work? And I have no idea. And they're looking into a larger, you know, they may have multiple informants working with them or on the, even on the payroll. I know a guy that was an informant on and off for 10 or 15 years, worked with the FBI, worked with the California task force. Yeah. They're paying him. and these guys are you know all kinds of stuff happens that you would legally you think oh no no they're not

allowed to do that yeah to you know to provide their their credentials they'll they'll steal dope from one person sell it to somebody else they'll do it give mind the FBI agent wouldn't put himself in that position necessarily but his informant will do all those things absolutely and be buying and selling buying and selling for months to build for his you know what is it bona fides to create, you know, and so now he's got the credentials. And now these guys are just like, they're ready to deal in, you know, a hundred pounds of this and a hundred pounds. Oh, it's amazing.

Millions. And now they get them to enough where, boom, now we're busting you. And one informant might be working with another informant, and there might be three of them that are all kind of working together, vouching for each other. Yep. I need you to vouch for this guy. I'm bringing him in.

You need to vouch for him. Okay. It's crazy system. his widow told me because I didn't we didn't like much know too much about each other and then when we did we became very good friends it was like kind of a nightmare that we were both in but she said that their house had been raided in 2015 so it's two years before I went out out west and you know nothing ever came of it so I'm assuming that he got busted that point and then switched yep and then what's crazy is in 2019 They decided to charge him for the 2015 stuff. So I'm assuming he didn't deliver on his end correctly or something. I don't know what's right. No, that's absolutely.

Like, I mean, they'll have you work for four or five years. Yeah. And you're promising and promising. You're giving this, give him that. And then I don't want to say they'll double cross you because typically these guys bring that on themselves. Like they'll continue to sell. And they kind of know.

Yeah. A lot of times they know you're doing something on the side because, like, I know we're paying you enough and I know your business is failing and but you know you kind of gives as long as you get away with it every once while they'll help you out a little bit but then at the when it comes down to closing out the indictment and everybody goes to jail then they'll use all that against you and you're like what but I helped you yeah but you also got caught doing this and this I mean it was a list of things he ended up they put out a warrant from the 420 arrest um and pincet or his hair at Harrisburg.

And I knew where he was. I knew that he was in a nursing home. And he had lost his leg. And he was just like, his addiction went south. Like when I left out there, it was just, it was bad.

So he ends up in a nursing home with these warrants and whatever. And they ended up releasing him to his wife after the nursing home. And she came home with their little son and winter. of 2019 and somehow without his wheelchair he was in a shower face down water on him cold frozen vegetables all over his body no drugs anywhere but he had died of a drug overdose so somebody was in that house nothing ever came of it never came of it there was no charges about whoever was it was in there with him but he ended up dying he was very menacing to me all up until almost the end of his life well i mean you're not going to believe this that

the police don't put a whole lot of effort into, you know, people that die of overdoses or, you know, they're like, yeah, somebody was here, something happened. He could have, maybe he brought this stuff himself. I don't know, whatever. Yeah, there was nothing. There was no drugs there. I mean, either it was just like a friend or who knows, who knows,

but he, he crossed a lot of people. He did a lot of people wrong along the way, but when I, oh, I'm sorry, go on. So when I get, when he strands me out there. That's what I was just going to say. So how do you get out of the? hotel room. So he strands me out there. I had a friend working on a pot farm in southern Oregon. And I had another friend and my aunt, I wouldn't even be senior talking if it wasn't from

my auntie Sue that let me come to her house because everyone told her not to help me. They're like, no. But I was stuck there for about a month and a half after the fact. And so I went down to this little pot farm and where I found some fellow tweakers. I had stopped doing H. but continued to do speed until I literally got on a plane. I found some very nice people somehow. I mean, truthfully, if I wouldn't have found the nicer people out there, I don't know what would have became of me in the middle of this, like, in the middle of absolutely nowhere in Oregon, a place called Selma.

It was just in the middle of nowhere. I found some nice people, and, you know, I stayed there for the month, And then I finally got out of there and got to Florida, December 5th of 2017. And I had like one blip of a relapse on the 26th of January of 2017. And then I stopped. And then that was it. I hadn't used to, I hadn't used it again after that. But that man continued to menace me even after I got to Florida.

He had Googled my family members in Florida. You know, Google you can find anybody's information. now and he showed up at my aunt's house and it was it was insane it was is he missing the leg not yet he still he he still he still had his legs and what had happened was I had um I had quit using and I had very quickly after I got to Florida became pregnant with my other my my my existing daughter's father we're in the middle of a divorce right now we've been married for 20 years we're in the middle of divorce right now but he's basically, because I made the decision to change my life, he was like, I'm going to bring our

daughter down to see her and, you know, let's do this the right way. And so I get pregnant, like two seconds into recovery. And so when he showed up to Florida a couple months later and I was pregnant, I was too afraid of him to then tell him. I didn't tell him it was his. I just didn't tell him anything. This let him assume whatever he was going to assume. And I even went to the police station in Daytona with my mom trying to press charges on him for like stalking and all these things and I'm showing them all the stuff on Google. And they didn't do anything for me. They didn't do anything for me. It was absolutely, it was, it felt so hopeless. He was, he would hire these random like goons to go and sit in front of my Auntie Sue's house and just, and I don't know. It was, it was, it was, it was.

It was so scary that it was scaring my family. And I thought he's never going to leave me alone. So I don't wish death upon anybody. And I'm sad for his family that it led where it did. But I would be looking over my shoulder the rest of my life because of him, you know. So what happened to him? He got arrested or? No, nothing legal.

Well, they decided to charge him for what happened for the raid in 2015. which again I don't know the ends and outs of the federal informant thing but I do know that they were charging him for his original raid and all those years later charged him for the original raid which was like kind of crazy he yeah he was in the nursing home for a while and then went back home to his wife who was basically just taking care of him they weren't like you know and then they found him dead a couple months later which is you know it's sad that they had to to find him like that. But convenient. Yeah. Yeah. So what happened with you if you're still in Florida?

Did you get a job? How are you surviving? No. I stayed. I began my years of being a hermit, I suppose. I am currently now. I mean, I'm a full-time student. But then I was trying to put the pieces back together from being just such a piece of

shit and trying to get back into my family so my auntie susan let me come to her house and me and my pit bull you know right and we're just we're battered we have a crazy stalker guy you know what i mean i'm just off the hills of coming off meth i mean i've been on drugs all these years it was not the smartest decision on her part and people really were not nice to her about it but had she not have given me the space to heal i would have went back to west virginia and my drug addiction would have cost me my life for sure. But I stayed with her for about almost two years. I had met the man that you'd met because he was one of the businesses that my abuser had screwed over many years ago and I was broke. So I was trying to essentially sell this man's business

information because I had the whole Google drive, all the documents. I had everything. And I thought, and I mean, I was desperate. I was broke and I was off the heels of drugs. So my brain was still very schemy. And so I was trying to sell his information and reached out to him. And then we began talking and he would come and see me every like two weeks for about a year. And then I moved out with him to Denver when he was working for a cannabis company out there. And since then we've been together almost, there'll be seven years next year. So it all kind of full circle happened.

But it wasn't until. And he was very supportive. He was very much like, you want to work, work, don't want to work, don't work, you want to go to school, whatever you want to do. Like, his mom was a former addict, not him, but her and I. So I think he had like a different understanding of it.

He was very, very supportive of me. And then ultimately, I didn't want to be like a captive woman or whatever. So I started going to school in January. And I start my bachelor program next year. and only now am I starting to build my own career because staying at home and all those things wasn't, it's not what I want to do. It's what I needed and I'm grateful for the grace

that he gave me to be able to kind of rebuild who I am in those years afterwards, the aftermath of that because I don't use words like clean and sober because they're not my words. Some people are very protective of it and I'm glad that they are. I used cannabis the first for almost five years of my recovery as my harm reduction method. I had already abused everything else, methadone, spox and all the things. And I wish that I would have quit smoking after I was diagnosed with emphysema and COPD.

That would have probably been smart. But I only quit smoking last year. And I definitely give a lot of credit for my recovery to cannabis. A lot of people, you know, they're like, oh, you're not sober. You're right. I wasn't. But as far as harm reduction goes, I've, I'm a great mom. I mean, I'm back in my family.

My family trusts me. I have house keys. You know what I mean? Like, everything changed. And I'm never going to not be an advocate for cannabis and ever. So what do you want to get your degree in? What do you want to do? Like, what's the goal there?

Well, originally I was going. So I have like four more classes and I have my associate of arts just to start because I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I went to community college, got an AA and then went to USF for two years. Like that's it. You'll like community college was way better than USF. Really? Because they don't know who you are.

There's, you know, there's 100 guys in the class. There's 50. But in a community college, there's 20 people. Like you can talk to your, you can talk to your. I know online. Oh, really? Yeah, I stay at home. But I'm saying you can actually talk to the, what do you call it, the professor and everything.

Where if there's 150 guys or 80 guys or something, like you don't know who you are. No. And then, yeah, you only learn at the pace of the class type of thing. Right. I'm almost done with my associates. I originally wanted to go into accounting just because he has a lot of businesses. And I thought, well, let me just get behind it and do these things instead of having to hire somebody. Like, let me do it.

But going into debt for the bachelor's degree for something that I'm going to make like $40,000 a year for us, not going to work for me. So my current Bachelor plan is information technology, do some cybersecurity, and do some computer stuff. He wants me to go into finance because I have such an interest about it because I was never good with money. And so I am taking some finance classes, the principles of financial accounting next year, just to affirm my electives, just to see how I feel about those. So my bachelor program is still kind of up in the air. But I know that I'm going to have to do a bachelor program to. I don't know.

It's not that I have to do it, is that I needed to show myself I had my brain operas. rated still after being. Yeah, I mean, getting an AA doesn't, it's not enough. Yeah, it's not enough. Yeah. You say I have a BA. They almost don't care what the BA is in. At least it says, hey, I set a goal.

I hit the goal. That's what my mom kind of said. It doesn't even matter a bachelor. It is. Just go get it. And I'm like, all right. You know, so I'm on that path. And I'm a homeschool mom.

Now my son's been homeschooled for about a year and a half, which is really fun. For me, we belong to a local co-op where it's like 30, 30 kids. and we get together like once or twice a week. And because I'm deeply distrusting of public school systems. And I'm grateful that I get to keep him home. You know, it's a different world we live in now. When my daughter was younger, I'm like, hell yeah, we're going to send her to school.

She's going to love this. She's got a great time. You're going to make friends and all these things. And then over the last 18, 20 years, it's like I'm not sending my kid to public school. Right. There's no chance. Or private school, any of it,

because it can happen anywhere. And I'm not into it. So he does very, very good. He actually starts, we have a subscription to this thing called Bitsboxes, it's coding for kids, and they teach you how to code and make little games. It's game form, so this kid's going to be coding. He just started. He loves it.

So it's crazy to go from running from a scary man and being a tweaker and junkie to being like a homeschool mom that's a student. because I would have ever thought that I could do it. What about your social media? Like, when did that start? So when I participated in that recovery challenge. So it's continued since then? Yeah.

Total on all platforms, I have a little bit over 200,000 followers. But I don't, I'm not the best with upkeep with it. Like sometimes I'll go hard for a couple months and post and post. And sometimes it's like, I don't want to just be the girl that stopped doing drugs. It becomes daunting for me. because people want, like, get out of their addiction quick, and they want to know what I know, what magic method I have. And it's like, I had to get my ass beat,

my brother had to die, and all these things had to happen. For me to find the mindset, it's not one of those things where you can be like, hey, this is a playbook and you can do this. That's just not how it works. Well, I mean, you can always just diversify the content that you're putting up. Yeah. What happens is you get a base of people that like you and they're following you and they're rooting for you.

Yeah. And so if you deviate from that path every once in a while, sometimes those videos do great. Like every once in a while I'll do a video that is, you know, like, let me this sounds silly, but it's about like aliens or something. Love that. You know what I'm saying?

So everybody's used to this one thing and then they hear me have a conversation where I think to myself, like nobody's watching that video where you're talking about a guy who's going to tell you all about how he was in Area 51. You know what I'm saying?

I love that. He knows that the aliens are true. You don't know, nobody's only to listen to this. But then that video will get. get 200,000 views and you're like, oh my god. And then guys are like, oh, you should do more of these. And then I'll do another one a week later and it gets 50,000. And then you do another one and it gets 12,000. You realize, so every once in a while jumping out of that is okay. I did one on, I actually did a couple on, oh, this was before the election on basically I was talking about like

a, you know, a civil war. Like are we at the edge of of a civil war in this country. And both those videos did amazingly well. Completely, you know, what, I want to say, a complete diversion from what I currently do.

Right. And maybe the next few videos I would have done, I did one the other day where this guy's just telling me about some un, unsolved, two unsolved crimes. And it's not one out of ten. I don't know if you know, you tell,

they rank them for the, for the, um, creators. creators right word yeah whatever you know in this content created the studio so on my end i can see where my videos rank like in the last 10 videos does this one rank first second third and this one's six but it's also in the first 24 hours it's gotten almost 20,000 that's wow which is great it's like six fifth or six anyway but that's great and it's a diversion from what i typically do

yeah so you can you could do something like hey something about, hey, here's how I got health insurance. Hey, here's how I did this. Hey, after recovery, this is something that I started doing. And people that have been following you will jump on that and be okay with that. And then you can go back and talk about something else. And you could slowly move that audience. Like, I don't ever plan on moving outside of true crime.

Right. I have interests that I'll talk about. Right. I've done stuff on JFK. Love that. You know what I'm saying? Little things that I'm interested in, but I'm not going to, I'm super interested. in like World War II.

I'm not going to do a whole series on World War II because I think I'll lose people, but you could do, you could even do finance you, but listen, this is what I just found out and such and such. And here's something like, did you know if you put away just $100, you know, this is how much you'd have in X amount of years, whatever, you know, you could figure that out. You could, you could, and then you could see what works and what doesn't work. And maybe you take that your channel in a slightly different direction. Yeah, I like to.

And people start watching the videos, you know. And they have no idea about your background. Yeah. I mean, they're going to look at the tattoos and say something's going on. I'll believe me, I catch a lot of shit for these tattoos. I'm sure you do too, buddy. But, yeah, but still, and then when they go back and look at it, they're like, oh, man, that was a great video. And they go back and look into your older content, they'll be like, holy shit.

This chick's been through some shit. I wasn't going to say. The other thing to do is interview other people. That's been suggested to me before. Yeah. It's, listen, it's, it's super. crazy. This is a joke.

Because think about it, I don't have to know anything. Like I just, I just do the same thing. I started the beginning and I start talking and then I, listen, I can't tell you how many times I've been interviewing somebody and halfway through they'll say, yeah, yeah, you know, and this is when this happened. I'm like, oh my God. Like, are you serious?

Like, I'm in total shock. And you can see the person looking at me like, you don't have a fucking clue what's going on with my story, do you? Like, you don't know anything. about me. And I don't. Then you, as they talk, you're like, oh, I think I heard about this guy. As he's telling me the story, but it should be, and you can use Streamyard.

It's not like you have to have a setup. You can just do Streamyard, which is, sorry, which is like a Zoom platform. You just pay for it. They just need a camera. That's it. That's it. They need a camera. You've seen the interviews.

Yeah. That's at Streamyard. Well, Streamyard is the one we use because it's really, really easy. Like there's other ones. like Riverside and Zoom and stuff, but this one, I guess they're all kind of designed for content creators. But this is one that specifically is pretty easy. And it's very, I mean, literally within three minutes, within like three, like click three

buttons. And then I just sit there and wait for the other person to show up. That's it. Yeah, it emails them something. They click on a link. It goes, they show up. Boom, they're there. And then it does it on three different, it gives you three different feeds.

your whole feed, their whole feed, and then a combination, you can just go with the combination. Like if you said, I don't, I'm not going to edit this thing. I'm just going to use the combo where it's your side by side. But as you get further into it, you can say, you know what I'm going to do? Every time I talk, I'm going to have it just be my feed. Every time they talk, it'll just be there. Then we're both kind of talking. I'll do the middle.

You know, you start editing. That's what my editor does. That's awesome. You almost, it's almost indistinguishable. I like that. I like, just like this. I noticed that on your platform, how I was like, oh, I think that's maybe not in person. Like that one, you can tell.

Yeah. Yeah. It's good, though. It's good because you get to have these conversations. You can do a 30, 45 minutes. You upload it. And before you know it, that whole, you kind of conscript that your followers for watching these videos and maybe your platform changes, especially it seems like it's easy to do it.

If you're not relying, you can take those kinds of risk. if you're not relying on the monetization of your platform to pay your bills. Like I always get these people that will say like, bro, you should do this. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I should scrap everything I'm doing and do a man in the street and start going around every day and talk to people in the street. Like, bro, I got a platform that's working. And this is what people expect of me. Right.

You want me to scratch all that? Yeah, I know. No, it's just silly. But that's what you could do. And it's easy. I think that's a great thing. I'm going to remember that stream yard because, has been suggested to me before because I have friends.

Something I did learn in the aftermath of my cluster fuck was I didn't have it as bad at any. I have friends and people that I've met through my platform that I've had really terrible lives. Like really awful shit has happened to them. And that just wasn't the case for me. Like I just like curiosity killed cat type of thing. I just like drugs. Like the way they made me feel. I like, you know, doing, I just, I don't know.

Like I think that there was something fundamentally missing that made me just be so intrigued by being in the wrong path or with the wrong people or being the wrong version of myself or whatever. But I did while you were talking about that in the beginning and you were talking about the healthcare thing and made me think of two things that I had came here intending to tell you about because they're just funny. I don't know about funny. I shouldn't use that word. They're not funny. Okay, maybe they are. I was going to listen, the thing I like about most of the people that come here, or if you know, they've really kind of just gone through, you know, had some shitty things happen.

Which they 99% of the time bring it on themselves unless they're innocent. But is that they have typically have super dark humor. Oh, yeah. You almost have to. Yeah, I have to. To get through it, you have to have a really dark sense of humor. I mean, I was only able to change because of accountability. If I wouldn't have really dissected the role, I played in every single fucking

thing that happened to me. I would have never survived my bullshit. I really wouldn't have, but somebody's going to survive, blame on everybody else. No, if you're still pointing fingers, it doesn't work. You just don't change that way, but you don't evolve that way. But something, two things that did happen during my incarceration that are just like strangely fundamental. I'll start with the not as funny one first. So, so when I was in there, I was bored, because, you know, there's nothing else to do. And I had decided to get like some tattoo pokes. So So when I would work at night cleaning up the jail, which is disgusting, you know, just disgusting. I would get like a paperclip or a staple or whatever it was and we would burn like butter or

chest pieces and whatever. So like five months into that journey, I go down to medical because they had done blood work on me. And they don't have to have like bedside manner in there. They don't have to do that. And they told me that I had hep C. And they told me that I also had hep A. So I'm crying because you can't run to Google when you're in there.

And I'm like, Hep-A, what the fuck is Hep-A? And they're like, oh, this is a self-sustaining facility and there's fecal matter in the water. You won't test positive for it when you're out of here. Fucking getting me right now? Like, I can't have soap and I'm literally drinking shit water. Like, what do you mean? So about four months into that sentence, this is the funniest story. And I've never told the Internet about it.

So many years ago, my path started crossing with this particular girl. She'd read my little online blogs during the MySpace years or whatever. And like our paths kept crossing. It was very bizarre. Well, I'm sitting in jail, sitting in the pod, and that same girl comes in. And she knew who I was from reading my little website or whatever. And we had kind of developed some type of a friendship over the years, but not in person, just whatever. So she, when she got out, her and my kid's dad began a relationship.

And it was a very chaotic thing. I was a junkie. She wasn't. She was in there for violence. I was, you know what I mean? It was a very, very different thing. Her and I had a very volatile relationship. After I had my son with him, she had a son with him.

And I had decided, based on losing my own brother, that my beef with her was not important enough to keep our kids away from each other. I didn't want my kids to lose a brother because I couldn't get along with this woman. So her and I started kind of a bond. Well, 2021, because I do genealogical research for people. I love it. I've taken class. I love genealogy. And I thought, you know, I came to West Virginia. I was like, hey, those kids are on sale. Why don't you test you and your son? Because I thought, test your son so we can really see if he's, you know, like biologically ours. Because I had my daughter tested.

So I thought, yeah, why don't you guys test and see kind of like what's going on? Like, you know, whatever. It'll be cool. I'm trying to like manipulate her into it basically. So she tests herself and not her son. And she's my cousin. Really? She's my third cousin.

She matches with me, my mom, my grandma, my brother's account, my daughter. She's my cousin. What a strange turn of events. Yeah, that she's my cousin. She ended up doing some like time time because. She's a little violent, but yeah, but I had told her the other day. I was like, I was like, I'm thinking about telling them about that because that, it's just the funniest thing. And she's, we had such a hard journey, but, yeah, she's my family.

Did she ever test? No, but they had legal paternity done. Oh, okay. I mean, I would have been related to him anyway. Right. So he didn't think it was super funny when I called him. Like, he didn't think it was funny at all. but her and I get together at least twice a year,

get the kids together and stuff. But yeah, that was something that definitely formed during incarceration. She was an interesting character. But she's actually still in Ohio, in West Virginia areas doing her thing. Can you... I had a brain fart.

It's all right. You think of anything else you want to talk about? Yeah. Yeah. I can. How long has it been? I don't know. It's hour and 20.

Okay, cool. But it's, I was going to say, what, what is, like, how did this? Is one of these a cover up? No. You have a good eye. Well, it's just that the scarring. The inside of the, what is it, a sunflower? It's darker.

Usually I see them lighter. Am I, I mean. It's, it's actually a very interesting journey. So when I, through my intravenous years, I injected into my neck. And so in 2021, I was in Tennessee for a small period of time because he was doing something hemp related, whatever. I scheduled with a Daytona artist.

We put it together for two months, what I wanted. It needed to be, she's a great artist. I don't know, I couldn't believe she half asked me the way she did. But I flew down to Florida and because I told her, I was sick of looking in the mirror and seeing track marks. Like I needed to cover, I needed to cover it with something beautiful, whatever. So I come down here. She half-assed me so bad, scars me up in the middle.

The original, this has had nine sessions on it. She was, she's one of the best artists. And that day, I don't know what was going on with her that day. But so I scar up real bad. It was all fucked up. It wasn't what we planned at all. It's not what she was capable of either. Like she's got amazing work.

And a couple months later, I thought, man, so I messaged her boss. I said, I'm not trying to like cause it. I'm just asking like, do I got to eat this $400? You know what I mean? And he was like, no, I stand behind my shop. You come in next time you're in town and I'll help you. So I get there. He adds a bunch of other random shit and he said that he'll only help me as long as I could sit.

Well, that shit sucks because it's your neck. So I thought it's interesting because when I, when she was doing my neck, I'm telling myself, like, these are the last needles that are going to go into your neck and jokes on me because it's not. It's like such karma. But he didn't make it much better, but then a friend of mine owns a tattoo shop in Daytona, and she's been working it for the last year and a half. So she's been trying to fix it and add color to it. And it's not done now.

It's just been an ongoing journey. She's been covering up all the decisions that I made in my drug years. She's covered. I have horrible tattoos. Do you have any that you're super embarrassed of? Oh, my God, I have really, really bad ones. This is a cover-up. Oh, I can see it.

Yeah, I... You probably wouldn't notice unless you stared at it. I was in. This was before, like, hard drugs. I had a friend that was like, you ever taken triple Cs? Like, Corsetin, like the heart medicine? Yep.

And I woke up when he hit my elbow. That's what was behind this. And then this terrible tattoo, the first time that I had, like, hooked speed successfully, I dated it. I dated it And this says ain't no quit in my system

Ironically This was I have a buddy who says all the time Ain't no bitch in me I dated it and it just so happened to be the day of the Boston bombings I didn't know And my mom got married on that date two years later So when I first came to Florida

She was like you got my marriage date wrong And I was like oh no buddy you got around I did that myself Because that's what happens when you can give a tweaker a tattoo gun. But, yeah, I have some questionable ones. My knuckles are probably my favorite tattoo, but I've had this one since 2008.

It says, and she does prevail, but if I lost these fingers, it says that she does evil. And I did that one by myself, because, you know, great decisions. It says, like a lady, because, you know. Yeah, I was the whole, and my son hates my tattoos.

He's six. He hates him. He hates him so much. And I feel bad because what am I supposed to do now? Right. What do you do? Well, this doesn't look bad. It's not as bad.

The only reason I notice that it's because it's so dark right here. The circle's dark. That's the only thing that I thought. I wonder if that's a cover up. Yep. Because it was she had had scarred. You know, it heals funny there too, but she had, it had this massive scar in it. So she's been trying to like add white.

Now she's been trying to fix it. What's the, is that a three? No, it's the, breathe sign. It's like supposed to be Sanskrit, but the reason I got this version of it is because it's the entitled Westerners version of just breathe from the Sanskrit symbol. Okay. Yeah, which that was a questionable one too. So the tattoos were going on while you were in addiction. Long before I was in addiction. And then since then you've, you've, I've been trying to fix them. Right. Since then. It's pretty much been a couple years of just like cover-ups and improvements because

I would have never chose any of this. My kid's dad is Mexican-American. and I don't know what in my Caucasian brain made me get to sugar skulls on both sides of my arms back in like 2007, 2008, but can't do anything about those. They're pretty big, but I think I would have always got tattoos. I just think that, you know, tattoos when you're inebriated and chemically, you're changed, it just isn't the same. I've made some really terrible decisions. All right. I got that one. It's funny because I didn't do a bid.

I didn't do like a bid like you. I didn't do that, you know what I mean? But I still got a face tattoo when I was incarcerated. It's an anchor, but what's... Got some little anchors. You got anchor to you? Yeah. So what was, well, my reason for it was, well, I'm a fan of anchors anyway.

I'm from the whaling city capital of the world. But I, for the anchors for me is like I would mentally like drop an anchor when things were good. like you just want to remember certain moments or certain lessons and anchors were always something that I kind of associated with it. So in jail, I'm just like, all right, well, you know, this is a lot. This is a lesson. This is the only time that, you know, yeah, it didn't exactly change my life at all. But some people thought it was a tear drop. And I'm like, get serious. No, it's absolutely not a tear drop. No, thank you. I probably wouldn't have done all of this.

if I was pushing 40, like I am now, I maybe wouldn't have made the decisions. But, you know, that's life, I suppose. Yeah. Those are young people decisions. Yeah. It's fucked that. I'm never going to stop doing it. I'm never going to stop now.

But my son, I have to be like, you have to accept people the way that they are. I was like this before you. Like, this isn't something I can change. He's not a big fan of them at all. and I got my dog tattooed after he passed. My dog was so fundamental in my life changing. Because if it was just a matter of me getting out of Oregon, that wasn't enough.

You know, me getting him out of Oregon was more important to me. It was insane how important he was to my journey. I don't have ever been attached to an animal like that. But I feel like growing up, I learned more about humanity from, animals that I'm the majority of the humans that I was around. I'm sorry, I just look at my wife. Is she like, she desperately wants a, desperately wants a dog?

I would be lost. They are the, they are the canine equivalent of Xanax. And I'm not on medicine, but like without them, I probably would consider it. I love my dog so much. Losing him was next to losing my brother was the worst time in my life. And that's crazy considering the things that I've put myself through. Yeah, that was tough. Something to be said about unconditional love of an animal, though.

Yeah. Do it. Yeah. No. First of all, we don't own this place. Secondly, Jess will leave for eight or ten hours, and I'll be stuck here with the dog. And if we have a, like, what am I going to do? I can't have a dog walking around.

I can't have a dog barking. So you're thinking, oh, well, you put him in the garage. Like, I'm going to put him in the garage for eight or ten hours. He's going to be barking. those little French bulldogs, that's all they do is bark. They do bark. They're extremely angry little devil dogs. You hear them and they're, and they don't stop.

It's like, oh, if it's a kid, you put them in bed to go to bed. He'll cry for a little bit, but he'll go to sleep. They don't do that. It'll be hours and hours and hours. They'll just keep going. They're hyperactive. Or you put what? Then you put a shock all around.

See? That's another problem. We don't have a backyard that's fenced in. It's fenced in. But our part isn't fenced in. Even then he could be out there barking. And, you know, it's like, wait another year. Yep.

We'll have a house. We'll be able to set it up so that he has an area. Yeah. And then love it. Love it. Love it. Because when mine died, when my big one died, his name was Mooh, he was amazing. We already had another one.

And then Mike or, you know, Mike was like, we can't run a hole. Like, you can't get another pit bull. Like, we can't, we can't do that. And he works close to some people that, they're not like sleazy breeders. I'm very adopt-on shop, but he had an employee that was affiliated with these Mennonites or whatever. And then he showed up with a little shish and poo puppy.

He's cool. He's cool. Like, I never thought I could love a little dog. And he's just, he's pretty funny. But. So you do have a dog in the rental? We have three. Oh, you just said you didn't have a dog.

Right. Well, like over the last month, we ended up with the puppy that he brought home. was like two months ago and then his brother is on a journey in California so we got custody of his dog like on the day before Thanksgiving so now we have a corgi a shish and poo and a bully it's a very strange group but they don't they don't really bark we got lucky with that one because I would hate it I would hate it yeah it'd be too much I can't I can't do you feel like doing this is cathartic for you in any way when you interview people? I think, I mean, maybe, you know, like there are things that I was hoping, like, I would be

able to talk about that wouldn't make me emotional if you talk about them enough. Like, that's what I had a psychiatrist tell me that. That's never happened. Really? That's never, you know. So there are things that if it comes up or I start thinking about in any way, I immediately get upset. Yeah.

And I always thought to myself, well, it'll be okay because that'll happen for a few times and it'll go away. And then I'll be okay with it. I can talk about it. Right. And where other people can talk about horrific things. Yeah. And it doesn't affect them at all. But yeah, there are some things I would think would make me feel better.

But it's never, it's just, listen, it's been, what, four years now. It hadn't happened yet. Really? So I don't think it's going to happen. But I like talking with people. that have shared him. You know, I don't take interest.

I really, I have a hard time taking interest in other people, but other people that have crime stories. And I'm super curious on like how it started or why it kind of started. And then how they hit a wall and kept going, hit a wall and kept going, you know, alter their like,

okay, well, this, how do I get around that? and I'm interested in how people figure things out. And, you know, in the end, it's like you have an amazing story. Like, and I would say this, that, you know, if you were, and everybody's got a story, right? But if you were, you know, if you went to high school and got decent grades and you went to college, and then you married your college sweetheart, you had three kids, and you got the job you're supposed to have, and you taught soccer. And, like, that's a great guy.

Like, that's an amazing person, you know, who's like middle class. and like, wow, like what, like I think that's great. But that's not really somebody you do that comes here and does a podcast. And I don't know. And unfortunately, I don't know that there's anywhere that that person goes and does a podcast that people pay attention because that person has had what, you know, what should be everybody's life, right? Right. That's like a decent citizen.

But that guy doesn't have like this amazing life that people want to sit down and go, oh my God, you know, the guy that's working, um, driving. having a forklift, eight hours a day, wants to listen to these because he's a responsible citizen. So he wants to listen to the things and the behaviors that he might have thought about or come close to, but didn't do. Or maybe he did, but he's recovered and he wants to know that he's not alone, which is kind like going to AA, right?

Right. Like you go to AA, not for the support. You can get the support anywhere. You go to be around other people that have a shared experience to let you know, like, it's okay. Like people fuck up and they get back on their feet and they live their life and that's okay Because a lot of people and I like surrounding myself with those people because like I don't have any friends that aren't Aren't fuck-ups like everybody you know like I always say like losers have the best stories you know I'm saying like

Like nobody who's been super successful in life has an amazing story. You know It's like you're it's interesting when you have challenges things fall apart you've claimed bankruptcy twice Yeah you've you know even that guy if he's never done anything wrong He's claimed bankruptcy, almost lost his company. He started over. He had to borrow money. He's losing sleep. He's sick to his stomach.

You know, he's been, you know, even those guys probably have some amazing stories. You know, those super successful guys, you know, you take Elon Musk or somebody like that. Like, wow, like, what an amazing story. What an amazing story. Yeah. But it's so rare, you know, like, and I can't relate to that. So I like this. I like knowing that there are other people that have made even worse decisions in me.

makes me feel a little bit better. I'm like, wow, like, I'm a fuck up, but I never did that. Like, I never, I never, I never robbed a charity, you know what I'm saying? You know, for whatever reason. Like, there are those people that you're like, oh, my God, you broke into your uncle's house and, you know what I'm saying? Who was helping you. Right. And you stole, you sold the family heirlooms or whatever.

And you're like, oh, wow. So, but, you know, like those are, those are, and they're, you know, and typically these people have super funny sense of humor, the same kind of dark senses, sense of humor that I have. Right. I tend to notice if you're at a party and somebody says something extremely kind of semi inappropriate, let's say, or dark or something. Like I tend to be one of the few people that are laughing. The only other people are laughing are people that have like been arrested or gone to jail

or going to do something horrific. Yep. And so I like those people. I don't, you know, the other people, you know, they're good people, but, you know, I mean? Yeah, especially like recovered misfit. are recovered people that have made, you know, they're not criminals anymore, they're not doing this anymore. It's like it's more relatable.

Yeah. Yeah. I have a common interest or common experience with that person. It doesn't even matter. They could be a drug addict. They could be a guy that robbed the bank. They could be a guy that did a white collar crime. Right.

You know, it's really, the crime in and of itself doesn't really, I'm curious about it, but I think the person that comes out of that experience, is what's interesting. As long as they have come out of it. Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't think I've interviewed anybody that hasn't kind of gotten past it and moved on.

Like I'm not sure what would happen if I interviewed that, the people that were like actively addicted. And I've known people that are like just outside. It's only been a few months. Like there's a couple of guys that have been talking. I'm like, oh, when was this? And then you're talking, you realize like, oh, wow. this guy just stopped you just stopped you this has been a few months the beginning right and you're

like oh wow like you know you're making it sound like you're oh I'm done I'm good you don't sound like you you're like maybe you know but and I and I might not have even if I had really thought about it and knew the whole story I might have been like yeah bro I don't you know yeah don't know how over this you are but I like it like I said I like it I like these people like the people and so find interest in them, I can talk to them. Right. But for most people, it's, it's a five-minute conversation. Oh, yeah, this and that and this and that and that.

And you're like, oh, hey, man, that's great. Good for you. Wow, those are great. All your kids are adorable. And then we're pretty much done here. Right. Like, you know, let's wrap this up. But, you know, other people, but if you've been through something, I can sit there

and listen for hours. That's awesome. I think it's great that you give people an outlet because. I don't think you can tell somebody's story in, you know, 30 minutes. You know. No. And I've gone on those podcasts. They're like, yeah, yeah, I need, I need 30, 45 minutes.

And I'm thinking, you're going to get a very glossed over, you know, 30,000 feet in the air view of this story. Yeah, your story is wild. So. Wild ride. But also, I think it's interesting. There are certain people that just listen, they, they're long-to-sense truck driver. Yeah. And they can watch, they watch two podcasts, you know.

They'll watch two hours here, an hour and a half here. and they love them. I think it's great. Really, other than yours, Marx and Joe Rogan, I don't really go out. Oh, no, I watched Theo Vaughn, but I don't, you know, what are you going to do? I love Theo. I love Theo. You know what's amazing about him?

And I remember, what was her name, Barbara Walters? Oh, Barbara Walters. She was interviewed one time by, like, it was like when she was kind of like, you know, retiring. Right. So they did an interview with her. And the interviewer said to her, it's funny, I almost think this, they must have planned this, because her response was so fast. They said, who do you think the smartest people you've ever interviewed, Ard? She was comedians. And they were like, they went comedians. They said, you've interviewed scientists, lawyers, everybody, doctors.

Yeah. And she said, yeah, but comedians, she's like, you have to be so smart and so fast. And Theo Vaughn has mixed being a complete knucklehead. Yeah. But he's so, he's got to be so funny. I mean, I'm sorry, so smart. Yeah. He's so fast. And he comes up with these ridiculous jokes.

And he's so comical. And I think, you know, you really are, you're not an idiot at all. Not at all. You're brilliant. Like he, and he has conversations with brilliant people. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But he's so.

He's very. entertaining. He's, yeah, I would have to say that he's, he's one of my favorite comedians. Well, he's not, yeah, he said he's not just a comedian. He really covers a lot of bases with what he does on the internet. Yeah, well, the comedians are taking over all podcasting. Like they all, all the massive podcasting. Andrew Schultz or whatever, that's his name, right, Andrew Schultz. Yeah, yeah. And, uh, that guy's funny. What is, uh, your mom's house, right? Um, I watched that Kai Sinat a lot, too. Tim Dillon? Tough, Tim Dillon. He's hilarious. I don't think I know who that one is Tim Dillon.

I'll have to look that one up. Yes. He's another outrageous. Outrageous. Yeah, he's hilarious. I'll have to watch. I probably have seen him and I just can't put a face to it. And Tim Dillum's gay, right?

Oh, wait, that sounds more. He's overweight. Okay, I think I might know what you're talking about. Talking to him, you think he was redneck, like kind of like a redneckish, you know. And then, but as you talk, you know, and then you find out later like, oh, he's actually gay and it's like okay that totally that's that's a whole other aspect of that I never saw coming that's all he's but he's he's hilarious I love a good company he's been on Joe Rogan a few times right I love Joe Rogan and I love Joe Rogan and I'm glad that you do stuff with area

51 and conspiracies and stuff because that's that's the sweet spot too I feel like I that's all it's on my YouTube algorithm and stuff like that I love that stuff yeah that's my buddy Danny that's all he does now is conspiracy stuff like it whether it's MK Ultra or aliens or. Yep. Or the declassified stuff from the CIA website. Yeah. I'm one of the people that prints it off because I'm afraid they're going to reclassify it.

Yeah. Yeah, but, but yeah, I think I am going to interview people. I think that would be a lot easier. Then that's a, that's an avenue that you can, you know what I'm saying?

And you have something that's relatable and you can, you'll have, and there's a, like if you were to stick with, you know, people that had drug stories, not that you have to, but, you know, obviously you could do anything.

But there's tons of those. Also, there's, I don't, probably women would, but it had similar stories, would reach out. And then there's a platform. You do one a week. Yeah. You know, or you could do, you know, do a two-hour interview and you cut it up and release part one, part two, that's two a week.

And then you do whatever your other, your other content in between that. Next thing you know, you know, six months from now, your channel's making a chunk of money. And you're like, oh, wow. Yeah. Because I'm not made much. maybe I don't have to get this bachelor's degree. Yeah, I'm going to go in debt a little more for that bachelor's degree. But, I mean, yeah, I think that'll be the next plan of action.

I feel, I want to, and I mean, just curious. So I'm glad that you allowed me to come on your podcast because I don't have like this crazy time in jail or prison. I don't have, like, I haven't done the kind of time that a lot of people have done for a true crime podcast. I think it's really cool that you let me do that. We have people. All kinds of people. Well, yeah, some of them have even gone to jail. So, I mean, it's like, do you have an interesting story?

Can you tell the story? Right. And then I've always kind of what I say is basically, I would rather have a crackhead that's been in four car chases and had a, you know, 10, you know, 10, you know, 10, you know, silly arrests that doesn't really have like a story story, but he can tell his story. Right. You know what I'm saying? As opposed to a guy that's stolen $190 million who's got this massive amazing story, but he can't tell it. Right.

Like he just can't, you know, and I've had those guys that come on and you're like, wow, you know, and they tell their story. And you're pulling, it's pulling teeth to get the information out of them. And then in the end, it's like, and then you have somebody else who's robbed a couple of banks. never really made any money. Kind of been just a drug addict his whole life in and out of little tiny stints in jail. But absolutely hilarious, can tell the stories.

Can't admit when he's been an idiot and you know, where they're like, listen, you think that was stupid. Listen to what I did this time. And you're like, you know, and there's that self-effacing humor. Like I love those guys who will own up to. Lay it out.

What was it? Oh, it was funny. when I met Boziak in prison, I said to him, he had heard, we were in line, and somebody had asked what I was locked up for. Somebody was like, God, did you get her up for this?

I said, yeah, I got arrested for this. I might charge with this, this, this, this. And I said aggravated identity theft. And he goes, and he was standing in front of me, turn around, he goes, that's what I was locked up for. Yeah. And I went, really? I said, I just kind of thought drugs because of all the tattoos.

Yeah. And he goes, what made you think that? You know what I'm saying? And I, you understand. But I realized like, like, like, like, oh wow, like this guy's not taking himself seriously. Yeah. But every time I saw him walking through the hallways, he walked around like, like he was a tough

guy. Like he had this, he had this gang, the gangster gate, like, I'll swing on you, but in a second. But then as soon as we would step away and get in room, he go, okay, so listen, this is what happened. And he started, I was like, like, this is like a different, like two different people. And he would talk about how, what time I did this, one time this happened, you know, I took off running. My brother did this.

I did this. He turned around like, what the fuck happened? You know, it's like, the elements. Yeah, he had all these silly

kind of funny stories that it was like a, but that's, that's what those are, those are guys that realized like, that was a knucklehead thing to do or, you know, and I look back and think about all the things like,

I'm like, you had so many opportunities. Isn't it weird how like your past contributes to like what you're doing now? Oh yeah, I can't imagine. Like I don't know what I would have really been doing if I wouldn't have fucked up first.

Oh yeah. I can't imagine. but making the same decisions. And what's funny is all those fuck-ups, you know, maybe it's age, maybe it's experience, or maybe you just get older and you become more patient.

But I can't imagine making the same decision. When I look back now, I'm like, for all you had to, you had 40 or 50 rental units. Yeah. You had this, you had that. You could, you know,

like you're making $10,000, $15,000 a month, just collecting rent. Yep. You know, like, what were you doing what were you thinking like yeah you know like there's so many times that I and of course now it's you know I think I think in a much longer on a much longer plan when I make decisions that I did then whereas to me it wasn't a quick turnaround and if I couldn't get all the money in five or

six months or something like that but what about yeah yeah it's a lot different I do think without all the fuck ups because you know I don't think that I had ever experienced not like gratitude in sense of recovery, but I don't think that I ever experienced gratitude or accountability until after I was able to, like, get out of the trouble I'd put myself in. Yeah. So I do have that now, and I think that I wouldn't have had it without the mistakes or would have just been existing. I was going to say it's funny too, going to prison, you could always tell the guys that were coming right back. It was always the guys that walk around blaming everybody else. Yeah, point fingers. This fucking snitch and this fucking cop and this is like, like, they did this is, yeah.

It's like, same old. You're coming back to present, bro. Yeah. You're coming back. You're planning your next indictment right now. I can hear it. And talking about it all in there, too. And then that comes back and bites.

I have some friends that are still doing time from just talking their shit inside. Or they're walking out with phone numbers or other guys that connect with. It's like, what are you doing? Like this is this guy. Yeah. Like you're getting out. So you're walking out with three or four connects. Yeah.

Like you're just getting right back into it. Mm-hmm. You know, but this is how I'm going to do it right. Because there's a right way to do it. Yeah, and then they don't send them to the halfway house, so it's very quick. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor if you like the video, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, leave a comment, share the video.

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