Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Making of a Queenpin: From Exotic Dancer to Crime Boss

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Starting point is 00:00:51 I was offered a job in a strip club. My life went from hustling in the club to a legitimate life of crime. I got some people working under me, and I remember being a maximum security person. And he's like, you're going to escape. I'm like, just come get me. Like, yes. So he was a real one for this. I ended up moving to Norke, New Jersey, when my parents had divorced pretty early on.

Starting point is 00:01:14 I think it was like before five years old. And my mother moving there is what kind of put me in that environment where I was, like, introduced to crime, just being surrounded by, you know, gang members, drug dealers, all kinds of things that you wouldn't want your child to normally grow up around. Pretty much molded me into the teenager that I was going to be, which was super rebellious. I almost got into a gang during high school. I was about 15 years old. Thankfully, I didn't go all the way through it, but there was like a lot of drama with

Starting point is 00:01:48 even just going to high school every day because of the people that I was like affiliated with and hanging around and dating at the time. So I was a freshman, pretty much dating a senior. So four years difference, and he was in a gang. So I ended up having a kid with this guy, which was... How old were you? I was actually super young and embarrassing. But I was 15 when I gave birth.

Starting point is 00:02:15 So I was, I think I got pregnant when I was about 14 years old with my first child. So yeah, rough beginning. And even crazier, I actually... I actually, you know, I kind of almost planned my first kid because I wanted to get away from my mother so bad at that point in my life. At that time, my mom was bipolar, but undiagnosed, which I kind of knew, like, growing up as a kid. But so she was, she was a mess pretty much. I wanted to get out of the house, met this guy. I was like, you know, if we have a baby, I can leave because she wouldn't let me have.

Starting point is 00:02:56 emancipate myself. I tried going through the courts, didn't work because I didn't have enough money to take care of myself, didn't have proof that I could be an adult because I wasn't ready. But so I ended up getting pregnant, doing exactly like I said, end up, you know, saying, well, I'm an adult now. Like, I don't have to be here. End up moving out somehow graduating high school a year early. And actually, I graduated high school a year early because of a lot of the fighting that I was doing in high school. So I ended up having a fight one of many in high school with one of these girls. And I ended up hitting her pretty hard and she lost her hearing.

Starting point is 00:03:41 So because of that, they put me in night school. I also went to Juvie for the first time. How long? For how long? I was only in there for about a week. I think my mom left me in there to kind of just let me know, like, this is what life could be like. Yeah, this is your future if you keep this up. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:04:00 That was an experience. And but still, it was, it was sickening because it was still a break from being home. Like, it was just, it was not fun, but it was just a break from being home. So end up getting into that fight, fighting this girl who she was a gang member at the time. They had jumped me earlier in the day. End up, like, going to another school after that school day after I get beat up. I find her there. End up beating her pretty bad.

Starting point is 00:04:29 You went to the school to find her? Another school, yeah. Oh, okay. They had, like, beat me up in our high school. And then there was a grammar school a few blocks away. So I knew she'd go pick up her sister after school because we both had younger siblings. So, you know, I was pretty beat up. Took a little bit of time to, like, get myself together.

Starting point is 00:04:45 And I'm like, all right, I'm ready to go see this girl again. the one who like initiated this gang jumping of myself. So we go to the grammar school and I end up beating her ass pretty bad. And it just so happens that she like kind of lost a little bit of the hearing in her ear. So because of that, she called the police next day in school. I knew I was going to go to jail the next day. Like I was like very aware of like everything that was going on as a kid. So I go to school the next day, get arrested in math class, um, had to go.

Starting point is 00:05:17 go through like this whole trial process. They try to kick me out of the high school. I end up getting just put into a night school instead, and which was good for me because I kind of was having a safety issue now with the older girls. I was a freshman. These are like junior, seniors that are messing with me because of the guy that I decided to date because he was in a gang and they were like an arrival gang. So this wasn't just because like they didn't like me.

Starting point is 00:05:43 This was like, oh, look at that new girl. She thinks she's so cool. Like, you know, she's. not a part of what we're doing. So I end up going to juvie because of that, get kicked out, put into night school. My mom actually showed up for me once and didn't let them expel me completely. And actually in night school, I ended up completing my work a year ahead of time. So they'd hand you the packets and they'd say, okay, here's the homework, do what you have to do, and then you get to test out of it. So once I like caught on to the fact that the faster I do this packet, the more

Starting point is 00:06:16 I'd move up, you know, I ended up graduating a year ahead of my class, which you would think is great because it's like, oh, you're out of year early, but I still didn't have my stuff together. Right. Yeah. So what are you, you went and you went to community college and then you moved on to four year college. You got your degree in accounting. So that was the plan.

Starting point is 00:06:40 I did want to go to college. I did apply to college. I started to go to community college, yes. I thought I wanted to be a teacher because I just wanted to have the weekends off, thought the summers off was, you know, going to be nice. And so I went, I started to go to community college to be a teacher. However, on my 18th birthday, I was offered a job in a strip club. So literally 18th birthday. It just so happened that my aunt worked there.

Starting point is 00:07:12 She was a bartender. Jesus. So I turn, I'm deep. I know. This is like, it's, it's just like, it's a big, it's a movie, but. So I turn 18, my mom, my aunt approached me, who again, my mom's not well. My aunt is also unwell.

Starting point is 00:07:30 And they're living whatever life that they're living. And they're like, you're 18, like, you can go to work now. So I'm like, what am I going to do? Like, you're going to bartend with your aunt. And I'm like, okay. So I knew she, like, bartended. I knew it was a club. But and I had a child at this point already, right?

Starting point is 00:07:47 I had a two-year-old. So I know, you know, what sex is, but I had never been in a place like this before. Is this like a raunchy strip club or like a nice, like a gentle. It was, no, it was. It was. It was. It was. It was raunchy.

Starting point is 00:08:02 It smelled like cigarettes. You could smoke back then. I just remember walking in there and it just being so dark that it took like my eyes to focus. It took a couple of minutes, right? Because I'm like. And then when I can see. see, I'm like, there's ass and boobs. And I'm just like, oh, my God, what is going on?

Starting point is 00:08:19 So I end up getting a shop at the strip club completely, I wouldn't say completely innocent, right? Because I've grown up, you know, in the ghetto, had a baby by now, trying to get, like, figure out what I'm doing in life. But to that kind of lifestyle. I'm assuming you're not bartending. I was bartending. Oh, you were, though. So the bar, oh, I thought they were, like, trying to get you in there and then, oh, no, that's later. No bartending jobs.

Starting point is 00:08:40 But you could waitress. And then before you know it, you, the waitresses, if they look good enough, they, within two or three weeks, they go, yeah, what am I doing? Like, this chick's counting out $800 a night. And I'm bringing home $150, you know, what am I doing? So. But yeah, we do get there, though. Okay. So I do start bartending.

Starting point is 00:09:05 You know, I'm exposed to this nightlife that I was never exposed to before. lots of sex, lots of, you know, drugs, lots of money, different, just people coming in and out of there. And so, of course, you know, I wasn't drinking yet. I was only 18, but I slowly started to start drinking, right? Because, you know, people are, like, having huge parties or bartending. They want you to take shots with them. I had gotten warned maybe two or three times, end up getting fired as a bartender because I was drinking under age 18. And how are you a bartender at 18? In the state of New Jersey, you can legally bartend at 18, but you cannot consume alcohol.

Starting point is 00:09:47 Right. Ridiculous. Which made no sense, right. So I end up getting fired from the manager because it was his ass on the line. And he's actually really important to this story. So this manager fires me, says, you know, you keep underage drinking. We're going to lose our license. Whatever. I said, okay, fine.

Starting point is 00:10:05 Next day I get a phone call. hey, do you want to come back to work? And I'm like, well, I thought I was fired. They were like, yeah, from bartending. And I'm like, okay. So that's actually when I started to get into the dancing. So I'm still about like 18 years old because I had only been bartending for about two months. I started dancing, not, you know, anything I'd imagine I'd ever be doing.

Starting point is 00:10:29 But making that money, like you said, that $800 a night, you know, drinking. start, you know, using some stuff to just want to go to work and be happy and, you know, want to show up there. Because like nobody really wants to be there. It's kind of like you just go there to do your job and leave. So from bartending to dancing to now like messing around drinking and trying all this different stuff out. And actually, I start meeting guys now, right? Because this is like new to me. So I have all these guys that are coming in.

Starting point is 00:11:05 They're spending like thousands of dollars, buying bottles, you know, throwing money at me. And it just so happens that a lot of them were, you know, dealing. So I, then I started this cycle of dating, right? These guys that come into the club. And I would say that is kind of where my life went from kind of just like hustling in the club to now like a legitimate life of crime, I would say. Right. because I wasn't doing anything that I shouldn't have been in the club, like some of the other girls.

Starting point is 00:11:37 I was, like, brand new to it. It was, thank God, like, I didn't get sucked in that deep. But, um. Yeah, I dated a chick that was a stripper for about three years, the whole time she went to college. And she would come home and be like, like, she would have, like, the girls that she thought were, you know, they were friendly.

Starting point is 00:11:56 Some were more friendly than the others. And every once in one, one would kind of pull her aside and say, listen, you know, they do the whole. listen, this guy over here. You know what I'm saying? For this much money, you know, so you'll leave the, and, you know, and she would be like, well, how do you even leave? And that she'd go, no, no, no, the bouncer.

Starting point is 00:12:14 So the bouncer's in on it. Oh, yeah. Like they have all these rules. Like, you can't accept a business card or a phone number. You can't give them your phone. Like, if I see that, like, they'll tell you if I see this. But then on the side, if a guy gives him $1,000, he'll let you leave home, go home early, walk you to your car.

Starting point is 00:12:31 Then you drive down the street, meet the guy at a, hotel that he's got, you know, I mean. Oh, yeah. So she said, like, probably once every couple of months, she'd, somebody would go to her and say, listen, this guy over here. And she was like, wow. Like, I like, like, she's like, it's funny because they'll give you such a hard line into your face and to all the girls.

Starting point is 00:12:50 But behind the scenes, the bouncers and the club managers are walking you out to your car to get into a car to drive down the street. Oh, yeah. And she, and she was at a, she worked at a Scarlet's cabaret, whatever. Like it was a, or Scarlet's Gentleman Club. It was like an upscale club. This wasn't like Mon's Venus. This was, and if it's happening there, it's happening everywhere.

Starting point is 00:13:11 Oh, yeah. It's all about the money. Like, what's going on behind the scenes is like, it's definitely, it's a cash cow for sure. Yeah, there's a veneer of, of legitimacy up front. Oh, yeah, yeah. But these places are, I would say definitely like, you know, corrupt, corrupt is all. But so I end up, you know, I ended up making friends with the manager who has like this huge crush on me, right?

Starting point is 00:13:38 This like older Caucasian gentleman, not attractive at all. Like not to be mean, but he really looked like the guy from the goonies. The hey you got. Yeah, that's who he looked like. He was like super unattractive, like repulsive almost. But he was like the manager and he kind of like ran everything. So this guy ends up having like a crush. on me and, you know, of course, me being young and seeing like what he was doing for all these

Starting point is 00:14:07 other girls. I kind of took a little bit advantage of it in a sense that like now that I'm dancing, like I don't have to go up on stage whenever I, like whenever I want, I could go up, you know, and I'm doing all these things. But so me and him have like a friendship. He has this crush on me and we're just kind of like working together. During this time that I'm dancing, like I mentioned, I met a few different guys, you know, that were coming in regulars. that, you know, had all this money. And I started to date, I started to date some of these guys, right? So I'd, like, let them take me out to dinner, hang out, and then they'd come see me at the club.

Starting point is 00:14:41 Well, I ended up meeting my daughter's father, my second daughter's father, at this club. And we kind of just had, like, a fling for, I would say, like, a summer, right? It wasn't anything serious for me. But we were dating for, like, maybe, like, two months. And during those two months of being his girlfriend, what did he do? He dealt. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:05 Yeah, he dealt. So he, yeah, he dealt powder. And so I'm dating him for two months, you know, working in the club, the time that I'm spending with him. He's, like, making deals. Like, I'm in the car. So I'm just kind of seeing, like, what he does or whatever. This is kind of important also. So I'm dating my daughter's father, you know, watching what he's doing.

Starting point is 00:15:27 I'm going to the club. I'm like, whatever. This is like a fun summer, I guess, like, not really thinking, you know, I'm going to get pregnant or, like, all this drama's about to happen. But during that time, I'm telling the manager at the club, because now I'm kind of like, just, like, just using him so I don't have to be at work on time. So I don't have to go up on stage more than, like, twice a night. I wouldn't get charged for, like, food and stuff like that. It was, like, nothing major. It wasn't like he was buying me any, like.

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Starting point is 00:16:48 That's good ranchers.com American meat delivered. Lavage cars or anything. But I'm pretty much stringing this guy along and not really. really telling him that I'm dating my daughter's father because he just thinks, you know, all these customers are coming in or whatever. During that time that I was dating my daughter's father end up getting pregnant by surprise within those two months, I actually didn't find out until after he got arrested. So during this summer fling that we're having, we end up, we had like an awesome weekend at the

Starting point is 00:17:21 Jersey Shore, like the Atlantic City area, we like did all the shopping, we like were at the beach, come back up to the Elizabeth area of New Jersey. And I just remember putting our stuff down, like we got like a new hotel, put our stuff down. And he's like, I'm going to go meet somebody outside. And I'm like, okay, no problem. Like, this was regular. Well, he ends up not coming back for like 25 minutes. So I'm like, what is going on? He actually had two phones. So he ends up calling me from the back of a cop car. And he's like, I'm in the back of a cop car. Like, I'm going to jail. and and I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, okay.

Starting point is 00:18:01 I guess I'll figure out what's going to happen. So he ends up like serving some like undercover, right? And they get him, they take him to jail. So now I am in this hotel room and I'm like, okay, what am I supposed to do? Right? Like this guy just went to jail. What's my next move like right in this moment? So I look over at the table and I'm like, well, he left his book.

Starting point is 00:18:26 bag, he left his other phone, he left what I call a starter kit that I didn't know that's, that's what it was at the time. But I, you know, I'd seen him put stuff together. Like, I knew it. I've actually helped maybe a couple of times, like, just sorting things out. So I opened the book bag and I'm like, it's like, oh, you know what I mean? There was just like a bunch of stuff in there. And I'm like, and the phone and the phone just immediately rings. And I'm like, hey, who's this? And that was like. Do you already know, like most of his contact? Like, Have you already kind of been around? Like you've seen, you know, like, okay, we go, we meet.

Starting point is 00:18:59 He gets out. He does this. He does that. He comes back. Like you already, do you know where, what his, do you know who his plug is? Yes. So this is, I was like, it was like a ride along, I guess for this summer. Like I wasn't anticipating it.

Starting point is 00:19:12 But yes, I was meeting, you know, the people, his clientele that he was dealing with. I met the plug. I was like friends with the plug's girlfriend who was pregnant at the time. So, yeah, I had access. Your shoe in. Yeah. To his resources. So him leaving that bag there and the actual, the phone phone, not the one that he actually took with him.

Starting point is 00:19:32 I was like, okay, the phone rings. And it just happened to be this person that lived across the highway from the hotel we had checked in at. And I just remember walking over there and, you know, making that first exchange. And that's when I was like, I'm in business. Like. So what was that? It was just small? Was it like you made 50 bucks, 200 bucks?

Starting point is 00:19:56 Is it like your... No, so I was making... So I remember this was like a long time ago. So the prices are, I mean, I'm sure they're nothing like what they are now. But back then, I'd spend 300 and I'd make 300. So... That's a nice. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:11 Very nice, right? And it was like, it's just a repetitive thing. And I could do that. That's iPhone. Yeah. That's like their model is they charge double what they have in it. So if an iPhone calls 500 bucks, they're charging $1,000. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Yeah, spend three, make three. I could even make four, you know. It's a good business model. Oh, for sure, yeah. And like you said, I had kind of known the clientele. And I'm much nicer than he was. He was so mean to these people. Like, no matter how much money they were spent, he was just like a jerk, I would say.

Starting point is 00:20:42 So, like, I had the customer service aspect of it. Like, I had the car. I had the friendly face. So I would say that's kind of when I took over his business. I ended up, like, changing the phone. number. And during that time, I was like, this is awesome, right? So at first, I was doing that while still working in the club. Okay. So I'm working in the club now. And now I have like this side hustle that's actually making me more money than the club. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to

Starting point is 00:21:13 stop working in this club soon. So I ended up doing that. I ended up leaving from dancing because I'm like, I can't spend my Friday and Saturday nights here to make, you know, maybe $5 to $1,000 when I know that every Friday, it's party time, right? So eventually I ended up leaving the club, but. It's a lot less work, too. It was a lot less work. But it's illegal, as opposed to at least the club money was legal. You know, it may be in a gray area at times, but it's at least legal. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:45 Nobody arrests dancers and sends them to prison just for dancing. That's true. So, but anyway, but I hear you, you're young. You don't know. You're not thinking that way. You're thinking I'm going to get away with it, even though the boyfriend just got arrested. Right, right. You definitely know this is a possibility.

Starting point is 00:21:59 Oh, yeah, yeah. I definitely did, and it just didn't scare me. I don't know what it was. Like, ever since I was young and this is like also kind of like sad, but like I always knew I'd end up in prison. I don't know what it was. I know. It's like usually people know they're going to like be a doctor or something, but like

Starting point is 00:22:16 there was just something. I don't know. I felt like it was going to happen. Well, I think growing up in that environment, you see people going to prison. Like for me growing up, we knew in my neighborhood, which is like an upper middle class neighborhood, we knew, I knew of one person who'd gone to prison. He went to prison for three years for laundering money for the mom. And he went to prison.

Starting point is 00:22:42 They didn't lose their house. Like literally, like, this was our next door neighbor. The husband goes to prison. The wife never leaves. never moves from the house, the kids stay in school, three years later, a couple, a few years, I think he got three years, but I think he only did maybe a year or change. He gets out. He moves back in.

Starting point is 00:23:01 And then probably shortly after that, they sold the house and went somewhere else. But yeah, so that was it, as opposed to guys that grow up in a, you know, lower middle class neighborhood, people are there watching people go to prison all the time and get back out and start over. They're driving. Everybody you know that has money. And this isn't, I know you haven't said this, but. This is what I get from it, just from interviewing people, is that you talk to these guys and they're like, look, everybody I know that's making money is selling drugs. Right.

Starting point is 00:23:27 Or robbing drug dealers or robbing banks or doing, like, the only people that have money. Right. The people that I see that are struggling and driving piece of garbage vehicles are people with jobs. Because they have lower, they have a lower middle class jobs. So they're barely able to keep a house over there, I mean, a roof over their head and feed their kids. So they have a crappy car. And it's like this guy struggles all the time. But, you know, the dealer over here, he's got a brand new car.

Starting point is 00:23:54 You know, this person. So I can, you know, so yeah, so I can see how you're, it's kind of there. I was definitely, definitely. And like, obviously, I'm an adult. I know that everybody makes their own decisions, right? Like we have the will. We have will. But I will say that I am a firm believer just because of based on what I experience is

Starting point is 00:24:15 that people are. a product of their environment. For the most part, yeah. For the most part. There's always an exception to the rule, but for the most part, yeah. And that's why I say I totally take full, because I could have done, you know, my sister went a different path. And we kind of grew up very similarly. So I do take responsibility for my actions.

Starting point is 00:24:34 But yes, because I was around that, I suppose I thought, you know, I'm going to end up in jail one day. It's not like dead, right? I never like really thought too far ahead. I was just always like surviving. So for me, yeah, it was regular. So my daughter's father, who I don't know is my second daughter's father yet because he just gets arrested, goes to jail. I'm in the club, dancing, and dealing to, you know, some of the girls, some of the guys. And I'm like, okay, you know, I want to get out of this, but like, how do I make this change?

Starting point is 00:25:12 So during that During that short time frame The manager that I was talking about That had that crush on me He knows what I'm doing, right? So it's another thing So now I'm kind of like I have free room of this bar

Starting point is 00:25:25 I barely gotta get on stage I barely have to do anything And I can deal to whoever I want That's coming in So he You know, very soon after wants like a cut in it Or he wants to just do it on his own

Starting point is 00:25:39 So me being me being dumb and young, I figured, okay, well, I don't want to be here anymore. So you can, do what you want in here. You can absolutely do what you want in here because I have plenty of, like, people that I can meet that, you know, we're doctors, lawyers, all these, like, decent people. I don't have to be in the club. So I kind of show him the ropes a little bit, get him going, because he had no idea, right? He grew up in, like, the suburbs. He's like, what do you do? How do you do this. So I kind of showed him what to do and left the club. I ended up, you know, like no longer being friends with this guy because I found out that I was pregnant a few weeks later,

Starting point is 00:26:22 ended up taking a pregnancy test. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm like, this cannot be happening right now. This guy's in jail. I only met him like three months ago. You know, I just got out the club. I'm like, what is going on? How long did he, did it? Had he been sentenced yet? Or did you know? So they only had given him under a year. Yeah, it was like he, it was nothing. It was like a slap on the wrist.

Starting point is 00:26:46 And it was because he was on a big probation already. Right. So they had only given him like 10 months. So he was only going to be in the county jail. So during this time, I'm making this money. I'm also sending him money, of course, because this is, you know, it's kind of like his business, although it wasn't at that point. But I figured I'd have to.

Starting point is 00:27:03 So I'm sending him money. I'm helping him pay his attorney. You know, I'm giving his mom a couple dollars. but really like I'm building something for myself, right? And like now I got like some people working under me. And it's like like a whole Mary Kay thing, but not makeup. And so I'm sending him this money. The guy from the bar finds out that I'm pregnant because I have to tell him, right?

Starting point is 00:27:27 And I'm like, listen, I'm not coming in. I'm not going to work. I don't want nothing to do with that place. I'm pregnant. Like that's it. And he is like, what do you mean? You're pregnant? And he was like, like, who are you sleeping with?

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Starting point is 00:28:58 Never slept with the guy. Never did anything with him. I would just act as if, like, I was super prude. So it kind of, like, enraged him a little bit. He's like, how could you? Like, you're, oh, my God, like, blah, blah, blah. And we just stopped talking. Like, we stopped, obviously stop talking.

Starting point is 00:29:15 I had no reason to talk to this guy anymore. I'm not in the club anymore. I'm still just kind of, like, doing my own business. Well, as I'm doing business and just kind of, like, living somewhat of a normal life because I'm back in college full time. I'm going to school to be a teacher. You know, I'm not in the ghetto anymore. I moved like four towns over.

Starting point is 00:29:38 You know, just kind of like living somewhat of a regular life. He gets pinched. The club owner. The club, well, the manager. The manager, yes, the manager. I had no idea because we hadn't been talking for months. Completely cut him off, changed my phone number. I was done with that scene.

Starting point is 00:29:57 We'll come to find out he ends up. making some type of deal with them, right? They end up raiding his house. I don't know how I didn't know he had gotten his house raided, but they raided his house and he made some type of deal with the police and he ends up going like undercover. So that's kind of how I got pinched the first time was because he could call it, he set you up, he wore a wire multiple times. Yeah. So like he was coming to me, you know, I was giving him, because I would never send him to my plug. Or maybe I did at some point. I don't remember, but like I was, I guess being greedy.

Starting point is 00:30:38 And I was seeing him. He was wearing a wire. And in this one particular day, and I would never meet him at my house, right? Because I just never wanted this guy to know where I live. Like, I knew he was crazy. And so I just remember one particular day, he pulls up in front of my apartment that I was living in. And he's like, I got to use the bathroom.

Starting point is 00:30:56 Or I got it like, he's going to shit himself. pretty much. He's like, I'm like, well, I don't know what tell you. He's like, let me use the bathroom. Let me use the bathroom. And I'm like, dude, like, no. And he was like, I have to go. And like, he really fooled me. Like, I really thought this guy had to take a crap. So I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, all right, come on. Like, let's go. And that's, I fucked up. I fucked up. So he now knows exactly how to go down the stairs, you know, apartment in the back, uses the bathroom. This whole time I didn't know, like he was in and out, literally like two minutes. But that's how he was figuring out where I lived.

Starting point is 00:31:29 And then I would say I was only maybe a couple of weeks later that I got my first apartment rated. And the doors got not kicked in. And were you there? So at the first, yes, yes, I was. I was there. Did they gently knock on the door and ask you to step outside? Oh, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Starting point is 00:31:51 So, no. So, okay. So the first time, this is what happened. I was leaving, I was coming back from a shop, right? So I had like all these groceries with me. And, you know, the guy, my baby's father that I'm pregnant with, he's like in jail. So I started talking to this other dude, right?

Starting point is 00:32:12 He just got that I had also met at the club, also was a dealer. And so we were just leaving the shop right together. And I just remember he went to go sell somebody something. And he went around the corner. And the next thing I know, I had, like, all of these, like, police undercover just, like, run up to me and kind of, like, just throw me against the, the truck that I had at the time. I'm, like, bringing my groceries out in, like, this really nice neighborhood, this, like, nice Italian neighborhood where, like, my landlord, everyone's going to hear about this nonsense. So I get arrested during this shopping trip up the steps. So he gets arrested.

Starting point is 00:32:57 I get put against the car. And because I had just went and saw somebody, I just went and saw this guy, and this is me being greedy. He didn't have enough money for what I brought him. So I gave him one less than I should have left with, right? So I put in my bra coming back from shop, right? This happens. They get me with one freaking, like one bag in my bra. And I'm like, ugh, right?

Starting point is 00:33:21 But they had a warrant anyway. Well, I was going to say, can't that be personal use? But they already have you on tape. Yeah, they had me on tapes. Yeah. But they didn't need to catch you with anything. Exactly. But so I had that one bag on me and then they end up, you know, kicking the door in.

Starting point is 00:33:37 You know, thankfully my kids weren't home. Thank God. It was like during school. And next thing you know, you know, they find all my stuff. There's like a box with all my stuff. They ended up like, they ended up robbing me completely too. Like they took all my jewelry. that I never got.

Starting point is 00:33:54 Like, they just, they wipe me out to police. And then I remember going to the police station and I'm with this new guy that I'm dating. And he's with me. And he's like, you know, don't worry about this. Like, it's, it's on me. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, this is not like, you didn't get arrested for that little thing you did on the corner. Like, this is for me.

Starting point is 00:34:15 And he's like, no, no, whatever it is. Like, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I'm like, okay. So this guy ends up going on camera and saying that everything that was in the that apartment was his, right? Yeah, so that's what he ends up doing. What do you mean going on, camp?

Starting point is 00:34:29 So they took us to the police station, me and the guy that I was with. They take us down. They're like trying to shake me, right? Like, oh, they're trying to do what they did to the bar manager. They're telling me, oh, like, this is what you're looking at. Like, without a lawyer, you know, this is what you're looking at. You're looking at 10 years. We're going to take your kids.

Starting point is 00:34:45 Yeah, your kids. They're going to foster care. Everything. Just give us these guys' names. And I'm like, you don't understand. I'm like, the people that I deal with, like, they're Dominican. Like, I'm okay. Like, there's nothing that you're going to get out of me pretty much.

Starting point is 00:35:01 Right. And so, of course, I didn't say anything, right? So I'm just sitting there and I'm like, wow, I'm like, okay, this is how this goes. Like, they're really trying to pressure me. But didn't crash or, you know, give them any information that they were looking for. But they had told me, like, oh, we have this really big investigation on you. Like, we know all about you. like, you know, you're, you're like dating all these dealers.

Starting point is 00:35:24 Because I guess like everybody was kind of like getting pinched in this neighborhood. So it was like they kept associating me with people because I was in the bar and because I was like doing all these things. When your name's going to keep coming up every time somebody gets into that room and they start cooperating. They're going to. Oh, yeah. Oh, and I know this chick. She used to be a dancer. She does this.

Starting point is 00:35:44 She's got the hookup. She dates this drug dealer and this one. So they hear that from three people. then it's you're somehow or another. In their mind, they turn you into like the puppeteer, right? Like you're the one pulling the strings or something. Oh, yeah. It was pretty funny because I was seeing, you know,

Starting point is 00:36:00 I was still going to the county every Saturday to see my daughter's father who I had no intentions on being with whatsoever. I was just like, you know, I'm keeping this baby because I'm, like, I just felt like I wanted to keep it. I was like, but we're not going to be together. I'm going to support you while you're in here. So I'm going to see him. So now they have like jail mail, right?

Starting point is 00:36:18 my boyfriend at the time who was with me during the first raid while we're at the police station I can hear him they they like take him to another room and he's like I'm going on camera and I'm going to tell them this is what we were waiting he's like I'm going to tell them that everything in that house is mine he's like do not tell them any of that stuff is yours and I'm like I don't think this is going to work because they have a whole investigation but I'm like okay right so I go And I'm like, and I heard him already. He's given his statement. So he gives a statement.

Starting point is 00:36:51 I'm like, it's none of that stuff is mine. And they're like, we know it's yours. Like bullshit. You're going to the county. You're doing this. You're doing it. I'm like, it's not mine. So I end up going to the county, of course.

Starting point is 00:37:02 I end up making bail in like about a week or two. While I'm in the county, I bump into my daughter's, the second daughter's father who I was pregnant with, his sister. So she's in the county ready to go shift down. to prison. This is not. Yes. I lived in the ghetto.

Starting point is 00:37:21 Like, I lived in the ghetto. Polly, Jimmy. Tommy's here too. It was unreal. So the first time I go into the county, I'm on the tier with my daughter's father's sister. And I'm just like, oh, my God, this is so crazy. Like, what are you doing here? She's like, I'm waiting to go to prison.

Starting point is 00:37:40 She ended up catching like a really couple big charges, like armed robbery, attempt to So she's got like 10 years that she's looking at. So I end up going in there for about a week or two. I end up making bail. I come out. Obviously my family's a little bit disappointed with me. My landlord, I got to move out of that really nice apartment that I was staying in, the three bed, two bath, in that nice neighborhood because, you know, the door situation and the police.

Starting point is 00:38:07 Right. So I end up having to get another apartment, which I was able to do. Um, I didn't go to the club because I was like, you know, I'm not going to go back there. But then and then the guy that I was dating ends up making bail also. So we end up coming out. And now we're looking at, you know, maybe like a year's worth of court or something like that. Right. We end up getting lawyers and we're like, okay, we're just going to figure this out.

Starting point is 00:38:34 Like, what we're going to buy some time. So during that time, I go on as business as usual, which was pretty stupid. of me. I know. But to me in my head, and I'm like, I don't know, how old am I? Like, 19, 20. I'm like, I'm Scott Free. Like, I'm not going to prison for that. Yeah, for a little bit. For a little bit. At 19, a year seems like an eternity. Like, that's way down the road. And I'll figure it out by that point. And I paid my lawyer enough. And plus, this guy's already said it's all his stuff. You're probably, you might actually be good because, I mean, The truth is is a lot of times, even if they could have a lot of information, but they still

Starting point is 00:39:20 probably don't want to go to trial if they know that somebody's going to get on the stand and say, that was all my stuff. Even if they have some stuff that points to you, you know, they're going to at least have, there's a much better chance you get found not guilty if you go to trial. So it certainly weakened their case against you. Yeah, for sure. So I go back to business as usual. I'm still dating this guy.

Starting point is 00:39:42 but I end up like breaking things off with him because he's just very clingy. That's horrible. But kind of. My God. Kind of, kind of. And oh, man. By the way, this, I was like super young. I was completely dumb.

Starting point is 00:40:00 I do not live a life like this anymore. I have one boyfriend. But I end up dating, meeting somebody else, start dating this guy. And he is also a dealer. So I kind of like start talking to this guy, poor guy. I ended up marrying him actually later on in life. But I kind of like started dating him. I remember pursuing him.

Starting point is 00:40:21 So that's why I say poor guy because like I was like, hey, like you're cute. Let's go out. So I started dating him. And he kind of knows like what's going on like the drama and stuff. And because he's hip to it. He also does. He's in the same business in the same area. So he's like, okay.

Starting point is 00:40:39 We just start dating. And during that time. So there's a six-month period from the first arrest to the second arrest, the first rate to the second rate. There's a six-month period. Had you considered maybe dating like an insurance statement? I mean, did you? Why, I mean, why these guys?

Starting point is 00:40:56 Why do you keep going for these guys? Honestly, I don't know what it was. Like, I... Is it just because they're around or just... It was like, that's what I attracted. It was like, I guess, too, like, once I got in the business, it was like the guys that were in the business now really were like... I had like my plug trying to date me.

Starting point is 00:41:13 Like it was like, I don't know. It was just, I guess I was like the only girl in our space at that time, which sounds stupid. But then like, it's what I attracted. It's terrible because now I,

Starting point is 00:41:23 nobody even talks to me anymore. And now I'm like, why doesn't anybody hit up me? But I guess it's like the vibe that you give off. So I don't know. I was giving trouble, I guess. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:33 So any of you were saying, sorry. No, it's okay. Six months. You said there was a six months span. So I, you know,

Starting point is 00:41:39 I met my, my future husband. at that time, ex-husband now. And we start dating and I'm still kind of talking to that first guy who, you know, went on camera and stuff, you know, because he's... At least semi keep him happy. Right, right, right, right. We don't need him.

Starting point is 00:41:56 We don't need him backstep. Right, right, right. Exactly. So we're dating. You know, I am going to college. I'm like trying to like get my life together. And I remember going out one night. And I had seen a police officer that was just like doing like the club IDs.

Starting point is 00:42:17 And this guy, and this was a warning from him. But like he's like, this is during that six month period. He's like, Aralano. And I'm like, yeah. He's like, what are you doing out here? I'm like, what do you mean? And he was like, you just don't get it. I was like, what the fuck is that about?

Starting point is 00:42:34 You know what I mean? Like in my head, I'm like, did you just hear this guy? Like, what the hell is this cop talking about? A couple days later, my new apartment gets raided. Okay, so my new apartment in the same neighborhood, a couple blocks away, ends up getting raided. I happen to have my future husband spend the night that night. He has his own place. He's not even supposed to be there.

Starting point is 00:42:57 We had went out the night before. They kicked the door in at this apartment. And this time I was in bed. They didn't surprise me outside. I remember being in bed, I remember hearing the door being kicked in. knock, knock. And I just remember jumping up. He jumped out of bed.

Starting point is 00:43:15 I jumped out of bed. He took what I didn't know what it was at the moment, but it was a bunch of money, I guess he had. He ends up hiding money somewhere under the trash or in the trash. I don't know what I was doing. I was probably just trying to get my clothes on or something. It was like, I didn't know what to do in this situation. He was moving faster than I was.

Starting point is 00:43:36 And then all I knew, the door was open and the police were there. And I'm like, okay, here we go again. Same police officers from the first raid are there. But now there's like more of them. And, you know, the one guy from the club is there. And he was like, he's like, I tried. I tried telling you. He's like, you know, this is ridiculous at this point.

Starting point is 00:43:56 They end up finding a bunch of drugs of mine. It was in a flower pot. I'll never forget. I was so stupid. I bought like this secret flower pot to hide yourself in. Never put soil. Never put a flower in there. So of course they see this empty flower pot, find all this stuff, arrest me and my future husband at the time.

Starting point is 00:44:17 And so now I have officially two co-defendants, right? So I've got the first guy that went on camera and this guy that I ended up marrying. And of course, he wasn't going to be like, oh, that's all my stuff, right? If anything, it was like the reverse. Like when we got arrested. It's in her house. Yeah, yeah. When we got arrested, I remember going in there and I'm like, I'm like, everything is mine.

Starting point is 00:44:41 He has nothing to do with it. It was like a full circle moment. I'm like, he has nothing to do with this. Like he was this poor guy was just spending the night. But mind you, while they're doing this raid at the second apartment, they're going through like my mail and stuff. So I'm writing my daughter's father that's in jail. I was writing actually, I think one other person that was in jail. So they're like going through my jail mail, the prison mail.

Starting point is 00:45:05 They're like pulling it out and they're like, I'm not going to say any names, but they're like, so and so. And then this one, they're like, so and so. They're like, oh my God. They're like, what? Like, what kind of mess are like you into right now? And I'm just like, well, he's a friend and all this stuff. But it was like a big, a big, a really big thing. And then come to find out, I'm like, okay. So I know who told him me the first time, right? Guy at guy from the bar that was upset that I never. did anything with him and then end up being pregnant a couple of weeks later or months later. The police tell me. They were like, well, you really pissed somebody off. And I said, well, who did I piss off? They were like, the guy whose business, you wouldn't get back. So my daughter's father, actually, I don't know, at what point, he cut some kind of deal. Did he get out of prison?

Starting point is 00:46:00 Yeah, he got out of jail. He got out of jail from the county. Okay, you didn't. you kind of skipped through. Did you say that that he got out and you didn't give him? No, no, no. He had no. So at some point, yes, I did skip that.

Starting point is 00:46:11 My apologies. At some point. Because I thought you were still writing him in jail. Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. So, yeah, just to go back a little bit. I'm still going to see him. He ends up, he ends up coming out.

Starting point is 00:46:24 He ends up coming out of the county. And of course, you know, I don't want to be with him at this point. I'm dating somebody. And I'm like, look, you're not getting your phone back. You're not getting. I don't know what you want for me, right? First of all, that number doesn't work anymore. But before he came out, I knew this was going to be an issue.

Starting point is 00:46:41 So I had exactly what he left me, a starter pack. Right. I gave him exactly what was left with a brand new phone and maybe a couple hundred bucks. And I told him like, this is what I owe you. You know, I paid for all your lawyers. I took care of your mother. I took care of everything. Like, nobody wants to deal with you anymore.

Starting point is 00:46:57 And we're done. So I end up giving him that when he comes out. he goes back to obviously doing what he was doing because I gave him what he needed. Right. And at some point, he gets pinched really quickly from being released. And that's when he told on me. Okay. But he didn't wear a wire and set you up.

Starting point is 00:47:16 He just said, hey, this is what's going on over here. You need to check her. Check her out. Yeah. I think that's what it had to be because I was trying to avoid this man because he was obviously upset with me. I think that's what it was. It had to be. I was not trying to be around him at all.

Starting point is 00:47:33 But, yeah, so the two, the two people that did tell him were guys that I was somewhat involved with. Right. Yeah. Just jealousy or anger or whatever. Yeah, pretty much. Okay. So, so he had given you up. You got rated.

Starting point is 00:47:47 You're in the police station. What did they grab? I mean, you cut the one dude loose. What did they have on you, though, at this point? At this point, now they have, they had like a whole investigation again. Had they made buys? Yes, there were buys. There was like, my discovery was like, I couldn't even read it all.

Starting point is 00:48:06 Like, it was just so big. I was like, I believe whatever, you know, like whatever it says in there to my lawyers, I'm like, it's probably all true. Yeah, I'm not going to read it. I'm not going to read it. But they did a whole blown investigation again during no six months. And I guess whatever input he had given them, which was my new apartment, which was, I guess, my schedule.

Starting point is 00:48:24 Right. He definitely did add to that, though. I end up going back to the county. I'm in there. I see my, you know, my future sister-in-law at this point. Oh,

Starting point is 00:48:35 not really. My daughter's aunt. And so this time's a little bit harder to make it out the county, right? Because I'm already out on bail. Right. I'm out on like,

Starting point is 00:48:46 I don't know how much, maybe like $100,000. It was nothing like, it wasn't huge the first time. I remember we had enough cash. And then the second time, bless my grandmother's heart, she put her,

Starting point is 00:48:57 her house up to get me out because they needed collateral. My God. I know. I know. Shout out to my grandma. She's like, she's the best. So I come out and now I'm fighting two charges pretty much.

Starting point is 00:49:16 Two cases. I'm going to court with my ex-boyfriend, my current boyfriend. And it's just like all of this mess, this whole entire time that we're going through the court process, which I had never really been through other than being a juvenile. And that was, like, very brief. But I'll tell you, it was stressful. It was really stressful. I kept changing my lawyers.

Starting point is 00:49:40 I kept pushing my date further out because I wanted to get my shit together, which, what does that even look like, you know? Right. But I'll tell you this, because one of my friends, one of my ex-boyfriend's mothers had been to prison and came out while this was all going on. And she was like, you know, I heard what's happening. She was like, sign your children over right away, right? This was the first time, the first, after the first raid. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, did Diefus come?

Starting point is 00:50:11 I said, no, no one ever called Difis. The cops were nice enough to be like, call your mother. You've got 20 minutes or call on CPS. Right. So. What is Difis? What is that? Child Protective Services.

Starting point is 00:50:23 Sorry. Yeah, I guess they're called CPS. And so I never got CPS called on me. So they had my mom come get my kids because they were, I think, believe in the house at second raid. So this friend of mine, my friend's mother, goes, you know, go give custody over to your daughter's, your first daughter's father or your mother, somebody before you go through the whole arraignment process thing. So I ended up doing that, which was the smartest thing I ever did because when CPS eventually

Starting point is 00:50:53 did approach me about like a year into going to court, they were like China. to challenge me about my custody. And I was like, well, my father has custody of my youngest. And my oldest father has custody of her. So thankfully, like, I never had to go through any of that. That was like probably- Yeah, they can't take custody away from somebody who doesn't have custody. Right. We went right down to the courts. And I had done that. And that was probably the best move I had ever made was signing that custody over to my other family, just so that when I was going to go to prison, you know, they could be taken care of. Yeah. They at least don't have to spend three months or six months and foster care while you're trying to give custody over and they're

Starting point is 00:51:40 trying to get permission. Exactly. So, so you're under stress, you're fighting two cases. do you continue to sell, are you continue to sell or you're, you went out and got a regular job? At this point, I'm not selling anymore because. Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. There's a little bit. No, but I'll tell you what, I did go back to bartending. Okay.

Starting point is 00:52:05 Yeah, but by default. No, it's not. By default. So I'm back in the club, a different club, obviously. How old are you now? 21? 20. Yeah, about 21.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Yeah, about 21, 22. And like, so we're doing, you know, I'm just trying to get my stuff. together. I end up, you know, being with, um, the last guy that caught that second charge with me who actually got, ended up putting on a bracelet because he was on parole. He was on parole the day that they kicked the house, the door in to my second apartment. So they only give him an ankle monitor because I said it was mine. So there's a lot going on. He's on an ankle monitor. The old, uh, what was it was, what was being sure to call it? The, um, Irish Irish jewelry or something. He's got a name for an ankle monitor, the old Irish ankle or something like that.

Starting point is 00:52:53 So he's on this anklet. You know, I'm going to fight this case. I keep pushing it as far as I can. Whatever it was that I did to piss these police officers off, this drug task force, they wanted to make an example out of me. So I had spent a lot of money, like most of my money, like I was pretty broke at this point in lawyers and stuff. And, you know, that money that I had told you that my boyfriend at the time hid, we ended up getting robbed for that. That's another story. And I'll get to that.

Starting point is 00:53:28 But I end up, you know, just getting myself prepared. They end up giving me five years. So the first sentence, they ran them concurrent, thankfully. So they're like, look, we're going to give you 18 months stipulation with five years maximum. And then I believe one of the other charges was 18 months to be. three years maximum, but altogether, I could have done a total of five years. But before I had all these lawyers that were working on my case, I was looking at like 10, 15 years. They were like really, and maybe that was just trying to scare me, but that's what they were trying to literally get me on

Starting point is 00:54:02 because of, you know, what is it, controlled substance, substance, you know, school zone, like everything that you could possibly think of, they were trying to make like an example out of me. And I think that I really pissed them off during that six. six-month period of me just going on another tangent. Right. And kind of laughing at them like, you know, well, he's going to chill. Yeah. Like I got this.

Starting point is 00:54:26 Right. But you know. No, I don't have it. No. I don't have it at all. So I end up, you know, preparing myself a couple months before my sentencing since they is coming, I end up kind of transitioning my kids to not living with me at this point. So my oldest goes with her father, the one that I met in high school.

Starting point is 00:54:44 and the youngest went with my father because her dad, you know, was the one that got me in trouble and he kind of just took off. He ended up catching a really big charge and he's been on the run ever since. Yeah. Even now? He's still on the run. Yeah. Whoa. I hate to interrupt the podcast, but I need your help.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have, please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd. The last video we did actually got a million views. If you've been arrested, please go in the description box. Either contact me directly. My email's there. Or you can fill out the form that we've got.

Starting point is 00:55:24 There's a link to the form. My email address is there. You fill out the form or email me. We will contact you. And we're going to try and get you on the program. So that year that he got me arrested, he ended up, I'll just tell you. He ended up smoking. And this is why we kind of broke things off.

Starting point is 00:55:42 I found out that he was doing drugs. He was smoking dust one night. And he, like, went bananas, ends up breaking down the door to my house. It's before the police came. Of course, I got, you know, kicked out of this apartment. But he ends up breaking down the door and, like, he goes crazy. I didn't even know he knew where I lived. But he's on, I could smell.

Starting point is 00:56:02 I'm sorry, he's on dust. I could smell it coming through the door. He breaks down the first door of my apartment. And, again, he's still upset with me because I took the business. And then I didn't want to be with it. with him when he came out. Breaks down the door. I end up calling the police because this guy is really strong, like the Hulk.

Starting point is 00:56:18 Because when you're on this stuff, you don't, you're like, you get like the strength. I don't know what it is. But he ends up breaking all these doors down. Doors down. I call the police and they come. It took so many of them to get him in the car. He ends up getting in the car, kicks the freaking cages out. He's running around the streets.

Starting point is 00:56:38 I mean, it was really, it was, it was like dramatic. But after that night, I pretty much shouldn't see him again because now he's on a new charge, which is like hitting the police officer, breaking and entering because he had grabbed my cell phone. It was robbery. And it was just like, and I didn't want this for him at all. Like I wasn't, I didn't have any like mill, like mal feeling sort of died. Right. I just knew he was like obviously back to using drugs. And I'm like, guys, don't do it.

Starting point is 00:57:04 Like, please, please. But there was nothing I could do for him. So he ended up catching a whole slew of charges, made bail. and he's been on the run for like the last, I don't know, 12 years. Jeez. It was funny as like after 12 years, they catch him now, like he'll probably get almost no time. Yeah. You know, it's funny because you would think going on the run like, oh, that doesn't help you at all.

Starting point is 00:57:25 Sometimes it does. Like if it's long enough, if it's long enough, they're like, this was 20 years ago. Like, you know, what's this charge? You know, like at the time, they might have given you 10 years. But now they're going to be like, give this guy 18 months, you know, put him on. What's going on? He's, you know. But anyway, so go ahead.

Starting point is 00:57:42 So he's still on the run, my second daughter's father, which sounds like it's like, oh, so sad. But honestly, I'd like that I don't have to deal with him. Right. To be honest, I mean, he was obviously, you know, he had some issues. Do you ever see him around? No, thank God. He like just. No, he bolted.

Starting point is 00:57:59 He's like in Wyoming or like somewhere by Canada or what is that? Michigan, I think. Last I heard he was in Michigan. He friend requests me on Facebook recently. I just deny it. So I end up going to prison, right? So I go back into the county and I'm like, okay, I'm going to prison. Like, this is it.

Starting point is 00:58:19 So I end up going from the county to prison pretty quickly, thankfully, because I was, you know, once when you have a lawyer and you're like a legitimate lawyer, you get moved through the system pretty quick. Unlike people who have public defenders. So like this was like a two-year time span now. And like now that I'm going to serve my sentence, my daughter's aunt is still there because she's still waiting. two years later to get moved from the county to the prison on these charges. No, attempted charges. So she's like, so that's it.

Starting point is 00:58:48 Like you're doing this now. I'm like, yeah, there's no more getting out of here. Like, this is what we're doing. So we ended up actually moving from the county to the prison around the same time together. How much time did you get? Oh, I ended up getting. So minimum 18 months, maximum five years. So you're doing 18 months no matter what.

Starting point is 00:59:11 No matter what. And if you behave yourself. I can get out in that 18 months. After the 18 months is up, I can get out. If I don't behave myself, I can stay up to five. Wow. Okay. That's an incentive to behave.

Starting point is 00:59:25 But it wasn't. You would think. You would think. But it wasn't, right. You'd think it would be incentive to behave. But I don't know. I literally, I don't know. I really needed like a therapist.

Starting point is 00:59:38 when I was younger. I needed someone to talk to. I needed a role model. Like, I needed so many things that I just didn't have. And I was just like, I was just like crazy. Like, I don't know what it was. But I end up going to, to the prison. So they tell me, okay, you're going to have to do 18 months minimum, five years maximum.

Starting point is 01:00:01 So I end up going. And at first, you know, I mean, obviously prison for me, it was. humbling experience, it was, for me, I feel like not just humbling, but I feel like it was somewhere that I needed to be for me to get my shit together. Like, I'll never go back, right? Like, I learned my lesson. Right. But even still, like, my prison sentence was not average.

Starting point is 01:00:28 It wasn't normal. I still kept continuing on to be a little bit of, like, a degenerate still. So I'm in prison with, you know, an actual prison with like all these women in there. And my daughter's aunt is in there, which, you know, somehow, some way out of all the places that I could go, we end up in the same unit in the same room, one bunk over. So if I stand up, we could see each other. Like, we were in the same wing, which was really crazy. But I end up going to the prison and I'm like, you know what? I'm going to stick to myself.

Starting point is 01:01:05 I'm going to do this 18 months. I'm not going to get involved with anybody because, like, I had heard of all these, like, stories that could happen, right? Like, oh, you're going to ask to get, like, into this group and that group. And I had already been through that crap in high school. So I'm like, I'm sticking to myself. I'm not going to go one way or the other. And, you know, I was approached by the Spanish girls, the Latino girls.

Starting point is 01:01:29 My Spanish wasn't perfect, but they're like, you know, you're going to rock with us. And I'm just like, you know, I like everybody. And that's kind of how I was like doing my sentence was like it was I got along, you know, with the African American girls, with the white girls, the Latino girls, with the mentally ill. Like I was trying to literally befriend everybody because I'm like, I'm very like social and I'm like, you know, if I'm nice to everybody then I don't have to worry. Right. I shouldn't have a problem. I shouldn't have a problem. Right.

Starting point is 01:01:57 So I end up going into prison. I'm in like low security because it's the first time that I'm there. I end up, you know, they put you in reception for two weeks, which is like a gym. You have to say that for two weeks to make sure you don't have like all these like different things. It's just like a check in process. You don't really have like too much clothes. You don't have access to a lot. It's kind of like probably the roughest part of it.

Starting point is 01:02:21 And so I go through the two weeks and then I end up getting put in like a low security prison on the grounds is what they call. And for me, it was, I had never been to, I had been to community college. I had never lived on campus. But I remember looking around and thinking like, this, I feel like I'm living on campus right now because the cottages, they were like houses. This is in New Jersey. It's like this huge, like farm area. But there's like all these cottages, like legitimate houses with all these different girls.

Starting point is 01:02:56 They have like the community center. It looked like a college campus. Right. So I'm like, okay. So like I had like a little job there. Like I forgot what I did. So I had a schedule. It was very low security.

Starting point is 01:03:07 I was obviously still in my khakis. You know, I was in prison, but it didn't feel like prison enough, I guess. Yeah. Right. So so here I am. I'm like doing the things, going to my job, you know, going to my room, doing all this stuff. And I get picked up by a halfway house, a program. They're like, okay, you've done.

Starting point is 01:03:29 I don't know. maybe like three months. And I'm like, damn, this is moving along pretty fast, right? I'm like, this is moving along pretty fast. I don't have been like three or four months that I'm in prison. And now they're like, oh, we're going to move you to another facility. It's what comes before the halfway house. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, let's go.

Starting point is 01:03:48 So I end up leaving prison and I'm going to this other facility where it's not quite a halfway house, but it's not prison. It was like almost reminded me of like a hospital. It was weird. And you could be in your regular clothes and like work release. Like it's like what comes before that. It's like a holding center for that. It's like it was weird because it was like a lot of programs. I felt like I was like in a drug program kind of thing that I had never been into one,

Starting point is 01:04:14 you know, before. But I imagine that's what it was like. We had regular clothes. I remember my husband being able to bring me like all these new clothes and stuff and like perfume. And they were going to sort us out and decide what halfway house we were going to. It was called Bull Robinson. And I had to stay there.

Starting point is 01:04:30 I think it was a month. You have to stay there to get until you get into the right facility or halfway house. So that's when I would say that, like, I started getting into some trouble. I end up going to this transition house as I wait to be placed into the halfway house that I'm going to. And that's when I would say, like, I started to kind of get into some trouble with, you know, with me being incarcerated. meaning that I started to get involved with people that I shouldn't have gotten involved with. So I end up at this transition house. You know, we're in these regular clothes and you're meeting girls from all over the place.

Starting point is 01:05:10 It's like a weird, it was a weird vibe. It was like prison but regular clothes, a schedule, a lot of drama. And somehow, you know, by the grace of God, God, I end up leaving that place. But before I leave that place, I end up meeting a girl. So I end up meeting this girl who, she dressed like a boy. She was like, you know, tomboyish or whatnot. And, um.

Starting point is 01:05:39 Wait, what did they call them? Oh, my, uh, my wife, because she was locked up too. She thought they, they call them, um, a stud. Oh, a stud. A stud or an AG, right? What's an AG meet? What's a G mean? I think it means aggressive or aggressor.

Starting point is 01:05:54 Really? I believe. She told him a stud. She's like, she was a stud. I'm like, okay. I don't know what that means. So I end up at this transition house and I ended up meeting a stud. And we ended up being friends for those like two or three weeks.

Starting point is 01:06:10 She was really, it's really cool Puerto Rican girl seemed like somewhat normal. So we ended up becoming friends and we end up getting shipped off. Everyone ends up getting shipped off to the halfway house in which they're going to go to. So at this. We mean friends? Just friends at this point. Okay. At this point.

Starting point is 01:06:29 So we're just friends at this point. And at this, I end up getting put into a halfway house for people that were on medication, right? So I'm with like the mentally unstable. Because if you're on any kind of like medication, it could be heart medication, blood pressure, anxiety, anything to do with meds. Like you'd get put into this one house. Okay. So because I was on some kind of anti-anxiety medication, because I was originally, when I came into prison, I was on anxiety meds. They continued my medication.

Starting point is 01:07:04 So I ended up getting put into this halfway house in Nork where it's just a bunch of girls, again, that are either like mentally unstable or they have some type of medical condition. So this is where it really started to kind of get dramatic because I ended up. against my own agenda, my thoughts, better judgment, end up getting into a relationship with this girl, this stud. And I had never been in a relationship with a woman before. Was I attracted to women prior to prison? I think I was curious. I think I've always been kind of attracted to women.

Starting point is 01:07:46 I think they're beautiful. But in terms of a relationship, it was never anything that I thought I wanted to do. however given I think most women are two drinks away from a girl on girl adventure but for the most part you know I can be wrong right so for me it was definitely you know obviously me being in this environment around all these women I'm looking at like at least another looking at about a year still maybe like 14 months or something like that so I'm like all right haven't you know been intimate with anybody for quite some time this girl's a stud I really liked her You know, she dressed really nice to care of herself, end up starting to have a relationship with her in there.

Starting point is 01:08:29 And that's where the drama started, of course, because girls are just too much. They're catty. I didn't realize that, you know, she had had, I guess, past relationships in there or she had girls that liked her in there. So that time that I was in the halfway house was not fun for me, even though it should have been, right? I'm in this building, this halfway house where I can wear regular clothes, you know, my fiancé at the time still coming to see me. He doesn't know about this study yet. He's coming to see me.

Starting point is 01:09:05 I didn't have my children coming to see me because I didn't want them to see me at all for that year and a half. I didn't want them to have. So you in that environment? See me in that environment, right. Just know that, you know, I'll deal with it later. But I did have, you know, my fiancé at the time coming. I think my mom maybe came once and my dad came once. I really didn't want anyone to see me too much.

Starting point is 01:09:24 But so in there, there was a lot of jealousy, again, because you can wear your street clothes. I had my fiancé at the time buy me like brand new everything. So I have like popping the tags off of my clothes. Were they fancy? No, but to people that don't have much, you know, it could look like I was maybe trying to be flashy. And that wasn't the case. But so it was a lot of jealousy among, you know, the girls. You could have makeup in there.

Starting point is 01:09:48 You could do your eyelashes in there. So, of course, you know, was always like doing my makeup, doing the other girl's makeup. But dating this one girl got me into some trouble because she had all of these other girls that I guess she had stopped talking to and whatnot. And I just remember, you know, getting into fist fights with other women over this woman. I remember specifically fighting her in particular a few times because like she's, I'd catch her, like, talking to another girl or, like, she'd be, like, in the bathroom with another girl. She was clearly, like, this was, I didn't know this at the time because I had just met her.

Starting point is 01:10:29 I was getting to know her. But this was a reoccurring thing for her. I guess she was in and out of prison for most of her adult life. So, like, in there, she thought she was, like, you know, the shit. And she'd got a lot of attention. So I would get a lot of hate because of that. And I got into like a lot of fist fights, a lot of fist fights were her to the point where I felt like I was like losing my shit, right?

Starting point is 01:10:56 Like here I am. It's not even the fact that I'm in prison, right? That is like bothering me now. It's the fact that I have these other girls that are trying to mess with me in a sense that like they're trying to get me in trouble. Now they're putting stuff in my room that's not mine. You know, like paraphernalia. It could be like coffee. Yeah, it could be like coffee that you're not supposed to have on the street, all this stuff.

Starting point is 01:11:17 And so in there, you know, they're like trying to mess with me or whatever. And I dealt with it for like a couple of months. I was like this close to getting out on job release. And I just couldn't take the pressure anymore. Like I couldn't take it because I knew that I was going to hurt somebody because these girls were just like fucking with me too much. So rather than putting my hands on somebody to the point where like I catch another charge, I thought it'd be a good idea to leave.

Starting point is 01:11:48 What do you mean leave? To like escape? Kick the door open and run. That seems ill-advised. Yes. Yeah. I had heard. What were you thinking was going to happen?

Starting point is 01:12:01 What was the- I had no idea. So this is all I knew. People were doing it. Like, people were doing it. Like while I was there, people were kicking the door and leaving. And it was just like, oh, it's that easy. Like you literally, just a magnet, you kick the door and you go.

Starting point is 01:12:13 And like people were doing it for all different reasons, right? I'm sure like some people were like doing it to have sex, doing it to go do stuff that you're not supposed to. But for me, it was just like this pressure that I had of. I don't want to, I don't want to hurt somebody because I was very, this girl like kind of drove me like a little bit crazy a little bit. Like the jealousy, the and I'm just like, I give you guys so much props for dealing with us because that relationship, I only needed that one one to realize that I am meant to be with the man. Because the emotions, the jealousy, for me, it was like being hurt by a woman actually hurt more than a guy hurting me for whatever reason. So I'm sure some women can relate to that. But so she had me going pretty much nuts.

Starting point is 01:12:59 I was getting a fistfights with her. I was getting fistfights with this other girl that she had been dating before me and some other girl that she had been dating before me. And I'm like, you know what? Fuck this. Like, I'm out of here. So did my fiancé at the time know about this relationship? He ended up finding out toward the end right before I left. And the reason being was because we would have these visits and like this stud would make sure to come get food and stuff out of the damn vending machine when he was there.

Starting point is 01:13:29 And it was like this whole big, this shit show. And I'm like, you know what? So when I called him, I said, I need to get out of here. Like, I'm going to get into some real big trouble if I don't leave here. Like, I could just feel the pressure, the anger, the stress building up. I'm like, I'm going to leave at this time on this day. Like, come pick me up. And he's like, are you fucking serious?

Starting point is 01:13:51 He's like, you're going to escape. I'm like, just come get me. Like, yes. So he was a real one for this. But he ends up renting a car because, of course, he doesn't want to come get me in his car, right? He ends up renting a car listening to my crazy ass. I don't know why. I would have been like, no, you're staying in there.

Starting point is 01:14:08 But he's like, I guess there was no change in my mind. and he knew that. So he's like, okay, I'm going to come pick you up. So I end up leaving. And actually, another girl that I had made friends with came with me. And I told her not to. I kept telling her, I said, do not leave this place because she was like, she had a thing going on with her kids. And I kept telling her, I'm like, her name was, her name was Donna.

Starting point is 01:14:30 I really liked her. I was like, Donna, do not fucking leave with me because I don't, I don't, first of all, I don't know where you're going from here. Secondly, you need to handle your stuff. She didn't want to hear it. So anyways, me and Donna end up leaving. And he picks us up and he's like, who the fuck is this? Right.

Starting point is 01:14:46 How many people am I breaking out of prison? Right. Who the fuck? I'm like, this is my friend Donna. Don't worry about it. Donna ended up like going home the next day, like to her family or something. I ended up going on the run for two weeks. And during those two weeks, I was back in my apartment that I was in before.

Starting point is 01:15:05 I only turned myself back in after those two weeks because the bounty hunters, were going to my father's house, my mother's house. My grandma was like, I'm about to lose this house if you don't bring yourself back. How is she still on the hook for the, how is she still on the hook for it? You'd been gone to prison. I have no freaking idea. I think they're just trying to scare. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:26 It was them going to my father and my grandmother that I was just like, okay. I was like, why not this last known address, but whatever? So I'm like, okay, they're like, listen. Because I thought nobody would be so. It's going to go to their house. It would be this tough. Yeah. They never came.

Starting point is 01:15:42 So I end up saying, all right, you know what? And at that point, too, two weeks is a really long time, 14 days to be on the run. I did a lot in those 14 days, though. I did a lot. I ended up buying a car, registering this car at DMV. I ended up like doing all this. I don't know. I went and got a manicure, a pedicure.

Starting point is 01:16:01 Like I was like, I was like, I don't know. I was like, I lost it at this point. What is the fiance saying at all? He's just like, well, what's the plan? The whole two weeks he's like, okay, you got your break, you know, a couple of days. You got your manicure, your pedicure. You went shopping. Like, what are we going?

Starting point is 01:16:19 What am I taking you back? And I'm like, oh, you know, just a little bit longer. I'm like, I don't know if like we squeeze a trip in there. Like, I'm crazy. Like, I was being really reckless. But I was like out in public, out and about. So finally, the reason why I stopped being on the run was because they were going to bounty hunters were after me. And they were going to my family.

Starting point is 01:16:36 And now my dad's like calling him. Like, listen, we know she's. with you, tell her to bring her ass back to that prison right now because the neighbors are seeing these people, you know, my dad lives in a very nice neighborhood. So I'm like, all right, it's over. So I'm like, all right, what do I do now? So I'm obviously, like, scared that I'm going to catch a street charge for this, right? They call it like a green sheet or something because you can catch charges in prison.

Starting point is 01:17:01 Yeah, yeah. And they can amount to actually. If you turn yourself back in. Right, right. And if it was a minimum security, there was no fence. Like, it's more like absconding. Exactly. That's what it was actually. It was absconding the charge. So again, I was like, okay, it's over. Take me back. So rather than going to like the police station nearby or having to go through the county to get back to prison, like driving to the prison gates. And he's like, are you fucking serious? And I have two of our friends that were there with us. Actually, I had like got a tattoo. So it was like my tattoo artist, my friend who we're all friends. right? And then my fiance at the time, he's like, I was like, you know what? Just take me back today.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Like, they were like tact to me. And I'm like, you know, let's just go back today. They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, right now I have the nerves for it. I'm like, let's just go. And they're like, like right now. I'm like, yeah, driving to the prison yard. So I'm like, you know, ready to go back at this point. Because I'm like, I have to face the music. I got to get this over with. I still have like a whole year ahead of me. It's only like six months at this point. So what do I do? I know how it works in there, right, the first time. So, of course, I go in there with goodies. Right. Right. So tobacco, they were slowly phasing tobacco out at this point in the jails in New Jersey. So having tobacco was like having gold. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:25 Having matches was like having gold. Having Xanax was like having gold, right? So I made sure to bring some with me in there. How'd you do that? Anyway, right. The only way you can think up. You brought it in your prison purse. Right.

Starting point is 01:18:44 In my prison first, right? Because I knew, like, I had already gone through. I'm like, they're only going to scan you for like, you do sit on this thing, but I'm like, they're looking for metal, right? I didn't have any metal. It was like the smallest thing ever. So I just go in there. I wake up the next morning because, of course I made sure that I was like a little bit messed up doing that. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:01 Like, I think I had taken some Xanax. And so I wake up and I'm like. I'm looking around. I'm back in the reception area. I'm like, fuck, I really did leave. And I'm back here. So I'm in prison and they're like, well, first, when they welcome me at the gates, I called. I'm like on speakerphone.

Starting point is 01:19:19 I'm like, hey, I ran away from the halfway house two weeks ago. This is my prison ID number. I'm at the front gates. They're like, what do you mean? I'm like, open the door. Like, open the gates. So they checked me right in, end up in that reception area. I wake up and my sister-in-law is back in there.

Starting point is 01:19:40 And I'm like, what are you doing in here? Because she had went off to another part of the prison. She's like, what are you doing in here? I was like, well, I was just gone for the last two weeks. She's like, are you crazy? Like, you're not leaving maximum security now. And I'm like, oh, I don't think I thought about that. So end up waking up, you know, spending those two weeks.

Starting point is 01:19:59 My sister-in-law or my daughter's aunt had gotten into a fight or something. That's why she was back in reception. we end up getting put again in the same place, on the same wing. You know, obviously during those two weeks I was in there, I had, you know, I was like getting rid of the tobacco, you know, getting rid of pretty much that was it. I really did keep the pills for myself because I was like, I need to sleep like the next two months away. Right. But that's when I really, I feel like I started my prison prison sentence because now I'm stuck in maximum security. I'm high risk.

Starting point is 01:20:33 and me going down to that little area where they had the cottages and the job, like, that was no more. That's never going to happen. No, as a matter of fact, I think I spent two weeks in solitary confinement, I think, when I got out because I had to get punished for obviously leaving. But yeah, so I pretty much made, like, the next year a lot harder on myself than it needed to be because I had freedom. Like, I was so close to having a regular job. But honestly, for me, and I know this sounds crazy, but, like, I know. knew I could only do prison in prison. I couldn't do prison in a halfway house. I don't know why, but I needed, I felt like I needed that solitude and I needed to not have that mix of being home,

Starting point is 01:21:15 if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's like some people say like the halfway houses is worse than prison because you're right there in the middle of the city, your family's two miles away. You know, you're able to leave and go to work, but you can't go to lunch or dinner. You can't, go like your family can't come see you at the right you know so every halfway house is different but some of a lot of temptation exactly it's so overwhelming like you know guys will get in trouble for you know oh i'm gonna walk to the bank they don't go to the bank they don't go the bank yeah well they'll go or they'll go in the parking lot and have their girlfriend meet them in the parking lot they have sex in the parking lot or whatever and then they walk and then it was you had an ankle

Starting point is 01:21:55 monitor on and the guy in the halfway house is like yeah well the bank's here here's a sidewalk you went here for 20 minutes and then you went to the bank. You did go to the bank, but yeah, we're violating you. But you don't know. This isn't a court of law, bro. I don't have to know what you did. I do know what you did. I have to prove this to anybody.

Starting point is 01:22:14 I have 100% control. I mean, so there's just all these horrible, you know, that, that, that temptation. Yeah. Temptation. That's there. The little time that I was there, like, I mean, obviously it was the pressure of like the whole these. girls messing with me and I felt like I was back in high school being like somewhat bullied but like

Starting point is 01:22:35 I also know like I need to control myself and I didn't want to hurt somebody that's why I just really couldn't take it but in there I mean they were drinking people were doing drugs I'm never forget I spent a new year's eve in the halfway house people were fucked up they were on pills they were on alcohol like not me because I was trying to just be my regular self and I and I knew not to trust these people but um for me I was like I thought about that for a while before I actually. left. I'm like, I think I would be better back in prison. I think it would be better over there where we're all in the same clothes where I don't look different than anybody where people are not just having it out for me. So I ended up going back there being stuck in the maximum security now for the remainder of my year, which was very tough at times, obviously, because you know, you're just stuck kind of like in this building and you get to go out a couple of times a day and stuff like that. But there's not movement like I had before. So while I'm in there, you know, I had that little care package that I brought in with me. I would say that's where I actually started to run a business in there.

Starting point is 01:23:40 I started a full-blown store, if you will. Right. There were a couple of them. It's pretty much I'm sure you're familiar. You know, you show up there. You don't have any money. It's not time to order commissary for two weeks. What do you do?

Starting point is 01:23:52 You come to me, get one bag of potato chips. You got to give me two when it's time to order, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. So I end up, you know, opening a little store, which obviously is still illegal. You're not supposed to be doing business in there. So I open up a store. I end up, I end up defending a police officer in there. What are they called?

Starting point is 01:24:16 A correctional officer, right? End up fronting a correctional officer in there. He was from, like, I guess, the area. And we would talk and stuff. And he was, like, pretty much like an asshole. but he knew about the cigarette thing that was coming. So he had like dropped a hint to me one day. He was like, look, I just want to let you know, like, they're banning tobacco for, like, for eternity.

Starting point is 01:24:42 And nobody really knew this was happening. He was like, so if you're smart, like, you'll order as much as you can. So like the weeks that were up and coming to that huge ban of the tobacco, I was like hoarding cigarette tobacco. I never smoked them myself, but I was just buying, buying, buying. So that way when they did cut it off, I was just like sitting on money. Right. Like huge, huge money. I mean, the way that people go for like crazy for a cigarette in there was just insane.

Starting point is 01:25:09 But yeah, I ended up opening a store in there. I ended up actually the one guy who had went on record for me and got in trouble that I stopped dating. He ended up going to prison for that actually along with something else that he had done. So he ended up getting like four years. And during that time, I had started that store while I was in prison. And with some of that money, I was like paying his mom's bills. I was sending money, money orders home to my best friend to start account for me. Like I had opened a bank account.

Starting point is 01:25:41 And I was like just, I didn't want my husband or my future husband to know or anything. I was like, I just want to come out and have some cash. So pretty much I was doing that while I was in there and trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to do with myself? And like when I get out of here. So now I have 12 full months where I can't go anywhere. I can't do anything. There's no halfway house. There's no privileges.

Starting point is 01:26:03 But I felt like I needed that because that was like the ultimate time out for me. Like literally I'm sober, right? I'm not drinking. I'm not taking the anxiety meds that I'm not supposed to be taking. I'm pretty much just like reading books and like stuck on my unit. So during that time, I read. really just like wanted to like kept thinking about my life like what do I want to do with myself like okay I turned 25 in prison and I remember being a maximum security prison and just bawling my eyes out

Starting point is 01:26:33 and like the whole wing is like what is wrong with you and I'm like I turn 25 today and they're like you're so young I'm like no I'm like a quarter of the way through my life because you know I figure I'm going to be 100 one day God willing and I'm just like what am I doing with myself like I'm in a maximum from a security prison. I haven't even thought about what parole is going to say when they see me in like nine or 10 months. Like, what am I fucking doing? You know? And during that time, I just really reflected on all of the shitty things that I had done in my life. And I also was like planning my future in a sense because like I had my mom sending me in like the college booklets because I was going to school to be a teacher during this whole thing. Obviously caught all

Starting point is 01:27:16 these charges could no longer be a teacher, not allowed in a school zone. So I'm like, what am I going to do with these credits that I did have by somehow, some way, during all this dealing and dancing and doing all this nonsense, I was still kind of keeping up with school somewhat. Almost got kicked out a few times. So I'm like, what am I going to do with these credits? So I was like, you know, I'm in middle school for business. Because when I get out of here, nobody's going to want to hire me. That was like one of the big things. So I was like, no one's going to want to hire me. Like, that's all I kept thinking about was I need to get a job. I need to get a job.

Starting point is 01:27:47 So my mom sent me in the pamph for school and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to finish a business degree. Not that I advise against it because you don't have to go to school for business. But at that time, I'm like, what is the next move? Right. So that's pretty much how I spent like the next 12 months was just thinking, okay, what do I want to do? I'm going to go to school for business. I don't know what business I'm going to open.

Starting point is 01:28:10 I can't work for anybody. I'm obviously good at selling things. Like, I'm very personal. Like, how do I take this talent that I have home with me? And I ended up seeing parole. And, of course, they smacked me and they gave me another, I think, year. So they were like, oh, they looked at my record and they're like, oh, okay. They're like, but you absconded.

Starting point is 01:28:34 And they were like, yeah, another 12 months. They're like, we'll see you back in a year. So I'm coming from parole now. I kind of had that. Like, I knew it was going to happen. And I still felt like, I felt weird. Like, I don't know what it was. Like, I was just like, God, I'm going to be here for another year.

Starting point is 01:28:53 Like, I can't stand these women. Like, this is the, this is like, this is the worst place that I could possibly be. Because women are just not the people to be around, not in a place where there's a lack of everything, you know. And hormones. And I don't think we're meant to be pulled together like that. And so pretty much, is that like a recurring theme? No, no, I think it's funny. I think we should be pulled together.

Starting point is 01:29:21 No, we shouldn't be pulled together like that. There was too much catiness. Did you ever see that? It was like a Survivor episode. Did you ever see the one where they did? I don't think it was Survivor, but it was a survivor type show. And they took all the women and they put them on one island. And they basically had to catch food.

Starting point is 01:29:39 They'd get water and catch food and be able to. to basically survive for, supposed to be for like a week or something. And they put a bunch of men on another island. Remember, by the end of the first day, the women are at each other's throat. And then if you look at the men, the men have, they've got clean water. They've figured out how to fish, how to lay traps, how to, and they're like super supportive of each other. And the whole time, they're laughing and joking.

Starting point is 01:30:06 These women are melting down. They're crying. They're caught. They're plotting against each other. they're calling each other name. And it's like, they're at each other's throats. And these guys are like, you know, they're playing like, you know, they're jumping on each other and, you know, play fighting and joking.

Starting point is 01:30:21 It is, it honestly. But with it, the first day, they have to be rescued. They're like, that's it. They're like, I just want to go home. I'm telling you. It's like. It's tough. It was funny.

Starting point is 01:30:32 I had, so I didn't have a great high school experience, obviously, right? Like, the whole thing, me going to night school. So I had been, like, bullied before. But then to see. see at an adult level was something like I had never thought existed, like people fighting over. Oh, my God. A microwave. Prison is the first time that, now, I had heard, you know, you hear people like, oh,

Starting point is 01:30:55 he's jealous or, you know, and I'd seen like a little bit of behavior in people where it seemed like, well, you're being like slightly irrational. Right. But you couldn't really peg it down to maybe this person is just genuinely just jealous of another human being. when I went to prison, you know, you are so confined and it's such a, you get to know someone so quick because you have to spend so much time with them. But I never, I've never seen people just be outright jealous of another person, which seems like

Starting point is 01:31:25 such a childish emotion. It's so ugly. They talk about each other and you're like, this guy's done nothing to you. But you're, and you kind of boils down to, you know, the only thing that makes sense to why you're saying these things and you're making things up about it. this person is you're jealous of him because he has something going on and he's working on this and he's got something to go home to and he's made better decisions while he was in here and while he was out and you're just a bitter jealous human being like you know they're there you know or just

Starting point is 01:31:57 you know mental illness that you don't pick up right on the outside world unless you live with someone exactly from a distance you know you don't notice it as much as it it's the guy in the cell next to you and you're like oh wow you're something not right. I'll tell you. And that's why I had said it was really humbling earlier on in the interview because I obviously got to see how other people live, right? So for me, it was like all of my complaints, everything that I was ungrateful for,

Starting point is 01:32:24 seeing people that have nothing, that have no family, that don't have a bar of soap, that literally don't have anything. For me, it was very humbling. And then, like, you know, I'd listen to people's stories. And I always want to know why people were there. And I'm like, wow. I'm like, I don't fucking belong here. Like, I have, I have a choice.

Starting point is 01:32:43 Like, I have, my family's not the best, you know, but I have family, you know, I have some, I have people that I can ask for money to or ask for help or that care about me. Some people are in there completely by themselves mentally ill, you know, and it's really sad. Yeah. And the whole jealousy thing. It's crazy. For me, though, I felt like I needed that because I didn't, I don't ever want to go back there. want to spend another day in there. It was definitely challenging.

Starting point is 01:33:14 So for me, when I heard that I had a whole other year to do, I kind of like put my head down. I walked back to my unit and I'm like, you know, I obviously wasn't excited. So they're like, oh, so parole gave you another, another hit. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, of course I left the halfway house. So now I'm sitting there like, oh, fuck, I'm going to be here for a whole year, another year before I can leave.

Starting point is 01:33:35 And by the grace of God, within like two days, some program came to see me. And they were like, oh, you know, we'd have this program. It's called intensive supervision program, ISP. We think you'd be a great candidate. Are you interested? I'm like, of course I'm interested. So they ended up picking me up, thank God. So I didn't have to do that extra year in prison, but I did have to have an ankle bracelet and be home.

Starting point is 01:34:05 So I end up leaving at the end of my 18 months, even though that's not what parole wanted. Some outside program picked me up. And pretty much I came out of prison. I went back to that apartment that I was in. How quickly did that happen? When parole told me no, that I was staying within two days, three days, ISP came in, interviewed me, approved me and pulled me out. The same day? Within a three day span of parole seeing me and ISP.

Starting point is 01:34:33 Okay. So I went from, oh my God, I have a whole other year to you're going home in three days, get your shit together. But you're going to be on a bracelet and you're going to be in. I don't care. Yeah, they're like, you're going to be in some kind of drug program and this and that. And I'm like, I don't do drugs. They're like, but you sold them. I'm like, okay.

Starting point is 01:34:48 I end up going out in the program. It was, you know, obviously a new experience. I have a bracelet on. I can't leave the house at certain times. I have to go every Saturday and report to this community service. And like, you know, they make sure you're not drinking. make sure you're not drugging, make sure you're looking for a job. So immediately, though, part of that is that you have to get a job right away.

Starting point is 01:35:09 Right. Like if you don't come up with a job in 30 days, you're going back. How hard was that? It was so difficult. Really? It was and it wasn't. Difficult in a sense that it was challenging emotionally, I would say. That's why it was difficult because here I am, I have this big ass ankle bracelet on.

Starting point is 01:35:27 And my first thought is who is going to hire me? Okay. I'm used to making my own money or borrow. bartending or, you know, dealing, who is going to hire me? So my first thought is, and I don't even know why I did this, but it just seemed easy, was to go be a waitress because I don't know what it is, but it seems like women, when they leave, incarceration, waitressing is just one of those jobs. They'll take you with the record.

Starting point is 01:35:50 So I tried a waitress for like two weeks. I absolutely hated it. I hated food. I hated messing up orders. So I started applying for office jobs online. I ended up getting a job. at one of these, at this establishment, they needed a secretary. So they hired me at like $17 an hour, which was amazing at that time.

Starting point is 01:36:11 That was a lot of money like 12 years ago. And I'm like, okay, $17. But the deal was I had to tell my employer 30 days from the day that I'm hired that I'm on a program, that I have a bracelet, that I have an officer that they're going to have to report to. At least they gave you 30 days. Like that's a bonus. Trust me. Because if you walk in the door and tell you.

Starting point is 01:36:33 on that. They're going to be like, yeah. Well, thanks for coming by. Exactly. But at least 30 days, they're like, after 30 days, they're like, no, this is a good employee. Right. And I was so grateful for that because I did my best. Like, I did my best at that job.

Starting point is 01:36:47 And it was very, like, it was tough because I had this thing on and I'm like trying to wear a bell bottom pants and like, I can't wear a skirt. I can't wear a dress to the office. And it's just like, they want to go get dinner after work and I can't. So like for 30 days, I am. point, I'm trying to do my best. I'm learning how to answer the phones. I'm cleaning the place up, vacuuming.

Starting point is 01:37:08 Like, I'm doing the most. Right. And what happened? I end up sitting down with my boss at the time. And I tell her, I was like, look, I really need to talk to you. You know, I was so nervous. I was sweating. I was pushing this off to the last minute.

Starting point is 01:37:21 And my officer's texting me, Tracy. She's like, you got to tell her by tomorrow. Like, you have to. Like, I have to report this back to my boss. Like, I need to call that office tomorrow. So I end up having her in the office. And I'm like, look, you know, I really appreciate the opportunity to work here. Like, I love this place.

Starting point is 01:37:38 I'm really, really nervous. Like, I was shaking, sweating. My voice was cracking. I was like, I have to share something that I don't even know how to say this. And I'm like, I've recently been released from prison 30 days ago. I'm like, I have an ankle monitor on. I've had one on for the last four weeks. And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I have to report to an officer that you're going to have to report to

Starting point is 01:38:01 twice a month or something. She's going to ask you how I'm doing. And that's the only reason why I'm telling you this. And I was like, and like, if you want to let me go, like, I understand. But like, I really, really am not a bad person. Like I, you know, I was, I was involved in some stuff. And like, I want to be a better person. And she just looked at me.

Starting point is 01:38:20 She was shocked. And she was like, she's like, I need a minute. I think she went and, like, smoked a cigarette or something. And, like, came back. And she was like, well, I'm going to go talk to Mike. about this, the owner, and she was like, I think it's okay. I think I'm fine with it as long as, you know, you do what you have to do. Like, I think you're great. Like, so she goes and talks to Mike and he's like, we're going to give you another chance. Like, you don't even have to really

Starting point is 01:38:45 get into it too much. Um, you know, just do your thing. And I ended up actually like, I don't know if they were overworking me or if I was overachieving. But I ended up being really good at the job. I kind of like, you know, excelled. I went from like secretary to, like, like, I went from like secretary to like customer service and I had my own client. So I was like now living a regular life somewhat, you know? Right. Just learning more about the business of being like a regular person and like dressing normal and waiting for a $700 check at the end of the week.

Starting point is 01:39:18 Like what am I going to do with this? You know, like what the fuck is this? It's a Friday night. Like what is this? But I was like, I'm on this program. I don't want to get in trouble. I don't want to go back. I, my main focus was like,

Starting point is 01:39:31 my deal with my dad and my daughter's father was finish this program and we'll give you the kids back and they can move back in with you, but you have to finish this program. It's going to take you about a year, year and a half. I said, fine. So for that year and a half, I really did try my best. What I did. Like, I did a really good job at not doing anything, you know, that I really shouldn't have been and kind of just excelling from that job. I ended up going to another, I ended up going to another company that hired me. So I left that company. And then within like two weeks they let me go because, I don't know, some kind of budget cut. It's not I'm devastated. I'm crying in the car. I'm like, I just left this amazing job for someone that paid me more.

Starting point is 01:40:10 And then that actually opened up the opportunity for me to go to school full time. I didn't know if you went to school full time unemployment that I've never used before will give you an extension for like up to like a year, a year and a half. So that gave me the opportunity to kind of just go to college, to, you know, finish my degree, even though I still didn't know what I wanted to do. that was like a complete also waste of money and time going to school. Because every time they ask me, what do you want to do? That's probably not the message. You want to be pitching.

Starting point is 01:40:40 But anyway, well, I'll say this. How I feel about college is like if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer, something that needs it. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You want to be an engineer or something. Yeah. Right. A lawyer, a doctor, a therapist.

Starting point is 01:40:51 But for business, I learned more about business. On YouTube. Well, on YouTube. But actually, when I was running my legal activities, I was a lot of, it was business that I was doing. Like, it was business. And then, you know, you learn it actually starting a business. But so I ended up going to school for business.

Starting point is 01:41:10 And, you know, I graduate. And I'm like, everyone's like, what business do you want to start? I don't know what business I want to start. So now I just go, I'm in the cycle of going to school. So now I'm going to school for a master's in business. And what does it even mean? Like, I want to be a master. But I ended up during that time, I always really like,

Starting point is 01:41:30 And I enjoy having a clean space. Like I'm a very neat person. I like order. I have a little bit of OCD. So at that time, you know, I had another job and I was helping my boss at the time move offices. So we're like cleaning. I had like my friend and my sister at the time. We pretty much packed his one office, cleaned it, helped them move to the other office, clean that, unpacked it.

Starting point is 01:41:53 I was cleaning on the weekends for my dad at his office. And I was just like picking up like small like cleaning jobs. And I wasn't even doing it intentionally. It was like, people were like, oh, can you come help me? So then what happened was I actually, I again, didn't know what I wanted to do. So three people in one week were like, hey, you know, you should start a cleaning business. It was like so random. All these people are like, oh, you started cleaning business.

Starting point is 01:42:18 You like it so much. And I'm just like, maybe I should start a clean. I didn't even know this was like people made money off of this. Other than my dad giving me $100 bucks every Saturday to clean his business. So that's kind of how I started my own business, actually. I started a cleaning business, cleaning homes and cleaning offices. Prior to that, though, I will tell you I had tried starting a party planning business, which was completely dumb because it wasn't a regular party planning business.

Starting point is 01:42:50 I'm like, all right, have I was business experience? What am I going to do with all this? So I had like a little bit of money. I built a website. I was like, actually, at this time, I ended up going back to bartend. I was doing part-time bartending at night. But I wasn't drinking. I wasn't using anything.

Starting point is 01:43:06 I wasn't selling anything. I was literally going in there, making my money, leaving, and still working this job. Oh, actually, no, I was like on the unemployment. And so I'm like, well, why not start a bachelor party planning business, right? Because, like, I know all these girls. I know all this stuff. Ended up not happening. Like, it didn't work because we're in New Jersey.

Starting point is 01:43:29 It's not Vegas, right? So, like, it wasn't the market for it. So I ended up starting a party planning business, never even had my first client, wasted a couple thousand dollars, a couple of months. Then I started the cleaning business. And I remember doing some research, doing, figuring out how much can somebody get paid to clean a house, then actually watching all this YouTube on how to clean, like how to make a business and whatnot.

Starting point is 01:43:56 And I actually met my boyfriend at this point in time. I had met my boyfriend at this point in time. Who I will say this. It's an interesting story. So I also met him at the club. Right. This time. This is post-prison.

Starting point is 01:44:11 This is like I'm focused. I met him at a club. It was just on chance. He ended up walking in. I wasn't even supposed to be working that night. He sat down to have a drink. This was a juice bar that I was working. at the first one I ever worked at. It was very strange. And he's like, let me get a shot of tequila.

Starting point is 01:44:32 And I'm like, well, we don't serve alcohol here. He's like, what do you mean? You don't serve alcohol? It's the strip club. And I'm like, well, this is a different strip club. I can get you a coffee or a tea or a juice. And he's like, well, that a hole just took my 20 bucks at the front. He didn't tell me there was no alcohol. So it was completely by chance that he walked in there thinking he was going to grab, you know, a shot of tequila. I was supposed to be working there. We ended up talking. He's like, what are you doing? here. I'm like, just trying to make some extra cash. I'm going to school. I have a daytime job, whatever. He came to see me like three nights in a row. On the third night, he was like, listen,

Starting point is 01:45:05 it was so nice getting to know you, but I'm never coming in this place again. So I ended up taking his number. We started talking. And he was the one that was like, look, you know, we started dating. He's like, you shouldn't be in this place. So I just leave this place. This place is gross or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I know, but I don't know what I'm doing. I'm still going to college. He's like, why don't you start your own business? Like just do it already. And I was like, because I don't, like, I really don't know what I want to do or how to do it. So at that point, he was like, look, come work for me because he's a business owner. He's like, come work for me. Answer my phones, you know, doing customer service and just pick something that you like. So that's when I had tried

Starting point is 01:45:44 the party planning. They didn't work out. The cleaning business started it, took off. I obviously stopped working for him. The first house that I cleaned, I was handed 250 bucks. It was me and my sister. We cleaned this lady's house for about three hours together, so six hours total. I got handed almost $200, almost $300. And I'll never forget walking out of that house. I was like, why haven't I been cleaning homes this whole time? Right.

Starting point is 01:46:10 What the fuck was I doing? I'm like, what was I doing? And then we just kept like working on it, working on it. The first year, her and I cleaning together 40 to 70, 80 hours a week, God knows how much. We were up and down, New Jersey, New York. I would clean anything. You had roaches. I didn't care.

Starting point is 01:46:27 You had an apartment. You had, we did crime scene cleaning. I didn't even do it properly. Like, I went and cleaned up a, with no, with no, like, PPE. I only charged, like, $300. Somewhere someone, like, got shot in Hoboken and died. And I went and cleaned $300. Now I know I could have gotten, like, three grand.

Starting point is 01:46:46 Yeah, I was going to say they, we interviewed a woman who, that's all she does. They get outrageous money. Yes. Because you have to do all the things that I wasn't aware of. So cleaning business ended up taking off. We did a little bit over like 300K and 12 months in sales. Obviously, you know, there was expenses, but we were living at my dad's. We were working out of our dad's home.

Starting point is 01:47:10 So that's like was eye opening for me. And I was like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. This is a thing. This is it. This is my new hustle. I'm like, I'm going to clean homes. So I cleaned homes with her for eight months. Then we ended up hiring my sister-in-law, the one that did.

Starting point is 01:47:24 the 10 years. Right. Okay. She got out. She got out. I probably shouldn't be sharing. That's okay. My background.

Starting point is 01:47:31 So I know her, obviously. So I end up giving her a job. She ends up doing great. You know, she changed her life. Thank God. She's got, you know,

Starting point is 01:47:38 got her kids back. She's living a sober life now. And then I ended up hiring, like, another girl that she knew. So then I'm like, you know, I kind of like working with people,

Starting point is 01:47:48 like giving people a second chance. As long as it's like nothing that, like it's not theft or something, you know, or like, or like kids. or anything weird. You know,

Starting point is 01:47:57 we were very selective, but it was, it was pretty funny because it was like at one point, my whole team, minus my little sister, we're all convicts, like pretty much running this,

Starting point is 01:48:06 this cleaning business. Like, but like, like, different people. Like, we were like, look, let's, let's do this,

Starting point is 01:48:14 like the right way, you know, like you don't get into trouble, you don't get into trouble, and let's kind of, um, go from here. So,

Starting point is 01:48:21 you'd be screwing everybody if you did. If you did anything wrong or took something, something or fuck. Oh, yeah. That was a big thing with me. I'm like, look. You're not hurting.

Starting point is 01:48:28 You're not hurting the person that you took. Right. The business, right. So we did everything by the books. You know, my sister-in-law, she was a huge, well, my daughter's aunt, so my sister-in-law, but she was like a huge part of it. She was like my first employee. Her girlfriend that had just came out was my second employee.

Starting point is 01:48:44 Me and my sister just kind of did like business development. And we just started like cleaning, just cleaning full time. Are you at the point now where you're just managing people? Yeah. So now I'm six years in business now. I stopped cleaning toward the end of first year, but it's been officially two or three years that I've been completely hands off. So I have an assistant that runs a business.

Starting point is 01:49:07 I run ads. I have, you know, cleaners that want to work with me and I kind of just connect everything. So I did the cleaning business. And at that time, I'm like, okay, this is life changing. I can, you know, actually be a regular person, make good money. and then slowly after I started my YouTube channel. So I wanted to be able to help other people just learn business basics because I felt like I had spent all this money in student loans going to business school, but it wasn't anything

Starting point is 01:49:42 that I was actually implementing in that first year. So I'm like, let me just bring it back to the basics. So I started a YouTube channel to help people learn how to open a business, how to start a business, you know, how to start a cleaning business in particular. And that I was going to say, do you focus more on service businesses? Yes. Because it's the easiest thing to open. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:50:03 And you can replicate it. Right. So there's a low hanging through very, you know, the barrier entry is very low. You can literally start a cleaning business with $40. You know, obviously it's not, you're not going to be a legal cleaning business, but you can start to get clients to then, you know, obviously register and do all that stuff. But it's for people that are looking to start money. I mean, start a cleaning business.

Starting point is 01:50:23 make money. And that kind of opened up another door for me, which is not like coaching. So I do have my cleaning business. We still run, you know, I still run my cleaning business with my assistant and my team. But I focus on YouTube and really just trying to help people start their cleaning business. And then also like I happen to a lot about like web design and like all that stuff. So it's been interesting. I've been doing like a lot of speaking recently. And I don't really know where it's going to go from here. But like what I've realized is that because before I was so nervous to tell anybody about like this whole thing. Like I never thought I'd be on camera telling people about my past because it's just so like not blue collar. And for me, it's like, oh, I have

Starting point is 01:51:11 to relive the ghettoness of it all. But it's important because I've, and I've learned this only through social media that there are people watching and listening that have been in similar situations or currently in the same situation or can somehow relate and they feel the same way. They feel like they can't do it or they feel like they're not good enough or smart enough or they have a background or a felony. And for me, it's like I love working with underdogs. Like I love it because it's like we're just such hustlers. And like we want for the most part, we want to do better for ourselves. So yeah, it's pretty much what I've been up to is just teaching people how to, you know, start a business and that, and know that it's okay, you know,

Starting point is 01:51:54 to have a past and to talk about it. I don't know what I was watching where the guy was saying, like, you have a leg up if you have a story. It doesn't even matter if the story has anything to do with what you're pitching or you're selling. You actually have a leg up because you at least have, you have a story to tell people to sell them on you. And, yeah.

Starting point is 01:52:18 So I was going to say, how do you get clients? How do you get customers? Not from YouTube. I mean, for the business. Oh, for the business. We run Google ads and like Facebook ads, retargeting ads. So like when I started this business, you know, shout out to my boyfriend for even giving me the opportunity to be like, let's, you know, he like gave me like my first five grand. He was like, this is an investment.

Starting point is 01:52:43 He's like, I'm going to get this back. Right. He's like, this isn't a gift. He's like, I know you can do better. You know, he's like, you just, to him and, you know, I take full responsibility, but he's like, you know, you've just been put in these situations where it's like you just kind of make the most out of what you have. And he's like, you know, maybe if your mom was different or maybe if you didn't work in that club, maybe things would be different. But he gave me the opportunity to start my first business. And it's definitely been challenging, but I've learned so much.

Starting point is 01:53:15 Like I learned about social media, marketing. Like now I build websites for other cleaning companies. I run ads for other cleaning companies. My YouTube is doing like pretty awesome. It's just, it's crazy. It's like opportunity after opportunity. And like I'm very grateful for it. And I now I realize like, because before I'd always be like, what am I going to do with my life?

Starting point is 01:53:39 Or like even one of my daughters right now is going through it. She's like, I don't know what I want to be. I'm like, enjoy the journey. because nobody knows exactly what you want to do or where maybe some people do. They're lucky. They're blessed. They know they go to be a doctor. Everything works out.

Starting point is 01:53:53 But for me, I'm kind of just like enjoying the journey now of like, okay, here I am filming this with Matt Cox. You know what I mean? I don't know what next week holds for me. But eventually what I would like to do is I do want to write a book. I'd love to write a book because I could talk for hours about, you know, a story within a story, within a story and kind of just help people understand that

Starting point is 01:54:16 like no matter what kind of trauma you go through you know it could be sexual could be physical, mental like you can take all of that energy and like really focus that on you know, being a better person and people that go to jail I feel like we're criminals, yes,

Starting point is 01:54:32 those that are not doing anything like crazy right? Like if you go in there for selling drugs or doing something illegal we're just, we have like we have what it takes to be business owners, it's just we don't, we don't either have the opportunity or have somebody to tell us that we can do it. So we kind of just go our own way. I think most service-oriented businesses make, you can make a lot of money fairly quickly,

Starting point is 01:54:58 and most of them fail because of mismanagement. People get, you know, people start getting, they get $250 and they think, that's all profit. No, it's not. They're still Uncle Sam. They're still overhead. They're still. You know, it's just start, trimming it down to start, but you usually don't, that that usually buries people and they fail as a result or, or you get to that point where you start to figure it out before it's too late. And, and, or of course, if you have some business sense, then you kind of go in knowing, okay, we're going to put this aside. This is my profit, you know, and, and you had that cushion.

Starting point is 01:55:33 But, yeah, service oriented businesses are great, especially to start off if you're getting out of prison and you feel like you can't get hired. Oh, yeah. I suggest it. I was going to say, and the other thing is I think a lot of people feel like you feel the whole time you were in there. And the same way I felt, who's hiring me? Nobody's hiring me. But the truth is, people will hire you.

Starting point is 01:55:53 Yeah. Is it harder? You can get a job. Is it harder? Yes. Are you going to get a job as a CEO of a company? No, that's not happening right away. You know, like you're going to have to start at the bottom, but you can find someplace to work.

Starting point is 01:56:05 But that's how I felt. When I left, I was like, what I do now? I was thinking McDonald's. Yeah. I thought I'm pretty. I went to go waitress because it was like, what do you do? Like there's not, they don't really help you figure that part out. Oh, in prison?

Starting point is 01:56:18 Yeah, they don't help you figure that out. They, they, no, yeah, they're not, they're not. It's definitely not about rehabilitation. I'm just really grateful for, you know, obviously thank you for having me here, the opportunity to be here. But I, you know, I will say that I feel like everything that did happen in my life, it had to happen for me to be here. I don't know why I was so hardheaded and like rebellious, but that, you know, that,

Starting point is 01:56:41 time of being away really like I said I was able to reflect on myself and think like okay what do I do now you know like I'm not a spring chicken I'm 25 just showing me back to the book you basically have already written the book like you just did a two-hour podcast that really laid it out right there you know that that that is your book it may not be that's probably only 60 pages right but you could take that and didn't just expand on anything you want to expand on. And other than that, you told a story great other than the fact that you didn't mention the boyfriend got out of prison and wanted his business back.

Starting point is 01:57:20 Oh, right. And, you know, that was out of sequence. Other than that, that was, it was told very well. You know, you just have to, you might have to expand on a few spots. Oh, for sure. Other than that, you basically just written a book. You could take the transcript. You could take the audio to this, drop it in a trans, one of those things does the transcripts.

Starting point is 01:57:39 Oh, yeah. Take it and pop it into Word. and then just find places that you want to expand on and blow it up. You'd probably have a book in a month. I would love to. That's like that and you know, coming here, I was like, I was telling my family, I'm like, I really feel like being on that show is going to give me the push that I need to write the book.

Starting point is 01:57:57 Because if I get the response that I'm hoping for, which is interest, obviously, right? Right. Then I will do it. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me favor if you like the video. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, please leave me a comment and share the video because sharing the video really does help.

Starting point is 01:58:15 Please consider joining our Patreon. It's $10 a month. We put Patreon exclusive content on the Patreon channel. So we have a video the other day we did. It was like four hours and we trimmed it down to like an hour and 45 minutes. But the full video will be on Patreon. Plus, we've got before and after stuff that goes on there too. So if you like the videos, you want a little bit extra, please consider joining Patreon.

Starting point is 01:58:38 and it really helps Colby and I make these videos. We're gonna leave all of Carolyn's social media links in the description box. So please go there, click on our YouTube channel, go there, subscribe, follow everything else. If you wanna get in touch with her, all of her stuff and contact information will be in the description box.

Starting point is 01:58:55 Really appreciate you guys doing that. So thank you very much. See ya.

Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Making of a Queenpin: From Exotic Dancer to Crime Boss

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