Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Man Who Solved Tupac’s Murder (What Happens Next)

Episode Date: April 6, 2024

The Man Who Solved Tupac’s Murder (What Happens Next)

With the Sheriff's Department, I eventually started to work cold case homicides with Biggie Smalls, Christopher Wallace's case, was an old cold case. It had been, you know, at Robbery Homicide Division, it had been at our downtown homicide unit almost since the day it happened, which was back in March of 1997. So nearly nine years later in 2006, there's this renewed interest in investigating it as a call. case because I had been working cold cases and working cold cases under these kind of broad federal umbrellas, I was recruited in to be part of that new investigative team. So through investigating Biggie's case, because we always knew that Biggie's and Tupac's cases were probably going to be somehow related, we then began to investigate Tupac's case. So remember, Tupac is killed in Las Vegas, not Los Angeles.

Okay. They had jurisdictional responsibility for investigating it. Because we stumbled on some information, as a result of Biggie's case, it opened us up to helping out with that. So what happened in Biggie's case? Like what happened to Biggie, how to die? Yeah, exactly. Like the background, the story, the...

There was a lot of background that asked to be. understood in order to really wrap your head around how he was killed and why he was killed. And that goes all the way back into animosities that stemmed out of New York all the way back to 1994. Tupac had been assaulted at a studio. He thought he had been set up. He thought that Biggie and maybe other people that were at the studio waiting for him had set him up. This led to some animosity, and then that animosity spawned, you know, this rivalry between Biggie and Chupac as artists.

Well, we all know that, you know, Biggie was under the, you know, the umbrella of Bad Boy Records, Sean Puppet Holmes is a record label, and then ultimately Chupac came under the umbrella of Shug Knight's Death Row Records. So now you have an East Coast. a West Coast rap music companies that are kind of at odds. So there becomes friction between, I'm sorry, there's friction between Shug Knight at Dett Row and Puppie Combs at Bad Boy because they had all ran into each other in Atlanta in 1995 and shot at Cohn's bodyguard shot and killed Shug Knight's bodyguard. So now there's this violent confrontation, somebody's dead. and the animosity grows.

You've got the CEOs at odds. Now you have their most well-known artists, Biggie and two-pocket odds. And then they both begin to associate with criminal street gangs. With Death Row, they're associating with bloods. With puppy combs and bad boy, they're associating with crips who are already natural enemies. Right.

So there's like three levels of hostilities going on between CEOs and the artists and the yonteros. and the, you know, the groups that they're hanging out with. And this just begins to continuously fuel this fire between them all. And that that animosity, that conflict ultimately leads to the death of Tupac and Biggie. Right. So, I mean, was there a hit on Biggie? Like, I really don't know.

I mean, I understand he was killed. Biggie was killed as a result of Tupac being killed. Biggie was killed in retaliation for what had happened six months earlier in Las Vegas and Tupac. Okay. See, I didn't know it was after. I didn't realize it was retaliation. Yeah, Biggie was killed in direct retaliation from Tupac's murder. So what happened with Tupac?

How did that? I understand there was, you know, animosity, but was there a series of events? There was a series of events. Most importantly was their, I don't know if you've ever heard this song, hit him up. What Tupac sung the song, really attacking bad boy records, attacking Puffy Combs, attacking Biggie Smalls, claiming to, you know, slept with Biggie Small's wife, and all of these really incendiary claims and threats. And so that was really something big.

And after that song came out, you know, everybody just knew this conflict was not just going to go away. And, you know, when guys from death row records would go to New York, they already knew that they were in puppy's backyard and there was already animosity. Same with bad boy if they come to L.A. They're in Schuitt's backyard and there was animosity. And this kept leading to conflict. Well, ultimately, it got down to the gang level where some gang. members, Shugnight used to give all of his entourage and the gang members that he associated with, he'd give them these big death row medallions. And some of them were

like diamond-encrusted death row medallions. They're very expensive, worth a lot of money. And so the Crips had, you know, decided that they would try to steal these medallions when given an opportunity. So one day at a mall here in Southern California, some Crips ran into some blood, Shug Knight's friends, and one of them was wearing a death row medallion. The Crips attacked him and tried to steal that medallion. So that led to this, you know, big, big brawl at the mall. Now months later, when they're downing, they're all in Las Vegas to see a Mike Tyson fight. The Cripps used to go watch Mike Tyson, the Bloods would go watch Mike Tyson.

Shignight was a big Mike Tyson fan. Tupac was a huge Mike Tyson there. In fact, Tupac wrote the song. that Mike Tyson walked out to the ring to the night that he was fighting in Las Vegas. So it's just all of this energy out there. And Mike Tyson knocks out his opponent, Bruce Sheldon in like less than a minute. Everybody's charged up. And Tupac's coming out of the arena with Shug Knight and other members of the blood gang

that Shug associated with. And one of those guys, the guy that had had his medallion stolen at the mall, was right with Tupac and he said Tupac look over there see that motherfucker standing over there in the lobby that's the guy that tried to steal my chain that's the crypt that tried to steal my chain at the mall

Tupac takes it upon himself he runs over there and sucker punches this guy not knowing really who this guy was the rest of the entourage and then stop this guy to the ground and it's all on you know it's all on surveillance video that you can pull up on the

internet and you just see this thing Donnybrook where they're stomping this kid to the ground. Oh, they had no idea if they had just, they had just opened a can of worms that they weren't going to get out of because that kid was a killer. So he went and found the rest of his trip friends and said, hey, it's on. I just got punched by Tupac. I got stomped by Shug Knight and the rest of those goons. We're going to go get them. So they secured a weapon. They went on the, you know, they went on the hunt. Everybody in Las Vegas knew that Tupac and Shug and everybody was going to be meeting over at this nightclub that Shug was opening called the Club 662 and you know Mike Tyson was going to be there

Tupac was going to perform was going to be this big afterfight party well everybody knew including these trips old and especially the one that they just stomped out so they get themselves a gun and they go on the hunt go over to the 662 but at the time they got there shug and tupac hadn't arrived yet so they were leaving and just as fate would have it is they're leaving they're not too far down the street here comes the entourage of shug and tupacac and a bunch of other guys that are on their way to put up they seize that opportunity they pull on side the car that shuns in starts shooting into it the young guy that they had stomped out leans out the back window with the gun fires the gun a bunch of times into the bmw strikes tupacupac which ultimately kills him. And that's how Tupac got. He punched the wrong guy. Right.

So who was the guy that got arrested recently? How does that play into this? Yeah. So the guy that got arrested was the uncle of the kid who did the shooting, the one that they'd stomp down, Orlando Anderson. So his uncle, Kee-D, is the one that was just, just arrested. KPD is after Orlando Anderson has stomped down,

he goes to his uncle, I said, hey man, Tupac just succumbed me, shook, stomped me, we got to get it back. So Keefe-D goes and secures a weapon from another associate of kids. So he gets the gun. So then he's in the Cadillac.

He's in the suspect's car with his nephew. There's four people in that car. The driver, Karen Sproud, Kee-D, who's in the front passenger seat, his younger, his nephew is behind him in a passenger seat in the rear, and then behind the driver is a guy named DiRacement. They're driving down the street. They see Tupac and Shug in the BMW. Kifidi hands the gun to his nephew, Orlando, on the back seat, who then leans out the window and shoots.

So Kifi D now is a co-conspirator in the murder. He went out there specifically to shoot and kill Tupac and Shug. He got the gun. He handed the gun to his nephew. and became part of the, you know, a willing number of the murder. So willing participant, right. He's a co-conspirator. Yeah. So, but now, like, there's, I guess, you know, people are assuming that there's going to be additional arrests. But when we spoke, you were like, ah, it's not going to be an arrest.

Yes. Everyone's dead. Orlando Anderson died in 1998, so just a couple of years after Tupac, after he shot Tupac, he ends up getting killed on the streets of Compton. The other guy, the driver, Terrence. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus, IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement. any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. Brown, I think he died in like 2015. He was in a marijuana dispensary and a legal marijuana dispensary in Compton. It gets robbed. He's in the middle of this robbery. He gets shot and killed. And then DeAndre Smith, the guy in the backseat with Orlando, He died early from health-related issues. He was really overweight issues that he died of natural causes.

So nobody else in that car is alive anymore except for the uncle who, you know, went out and bragged about his role in the murdering. Right. Is on Vlad or something of Vlad? Yeah, several platforms, Ladd TV. And he wrote a book about it called, you know, Compton Legend. So he wrote a book about his own participation. yeah it's funny because i'll i'll interview guys and they're like i don't know i'm you know some of this stuff i never got charged with and i'm concerned i'm like okay well it was like 20 years ago

like unless you're gonna talk about murder you do you know you're talking about fraud like there's a five-year statute of limitations you know maybe 10 if it's a bank fraud specifically i was like you're you're good but yeah murder i would think you would know hey especially a high profile murder you know you probably shouldn't shouldn't brag But it's funny because, let's face it, even, well, I don't know. I was going to police stations all the time and admit to murders. And you still have to do an investigation. It's like, we still need something other than just your word.

But I guess he was there anyway. And it was. Yeah, it was relatively easy to corroborate the things that he claimed. Right. So how did that? So ultimately, how did that lead to Biggie Small's murder? I understand you're saying retaliation. Is there a sequence of events that happened?

Like, or was it? Okay. Yeah. So after, you know, when, at the time when Shug Knight is seen stomping Orlando Anderson at the MGM in Las Vegas, he was on probation. And so when the video surfaced of him participating in this basically a gang fight, A, he was burnt. One of the conditions of his probation was.

that he's not to associate gang members, nor to participate in any crimes, nor to leave the state of California without express permission. So all of these things added up to him getting his probation violated. So when they violated his probation, he is now going to go back to prison for the remainder of his previous sentence, which was like an eight-year parole sentence. and so when he violates that he goes back and now he's in county jail and Tupac's dead death row is starting to kind of spiral down without their primary artist and with all the issues and internal fighting death row has started to kind of disintegrate and he's in jail

and becomes aware that both puffy combs and Biggie Smalls are coming back to California. So they're going to be able, in the absence of Death Row, now Bad Boy Records is going to be able to establish it potentially on the West Coast and kind of settle in, Shug's out of the way. He's in jail, prison, and Tupac's gone. It's a perfect opportunity just to go and, you know, establish ourselves. And so Shook became aware of that.

and he reached out to one of the guys in the gang that he had a lot of prior history with a very violent guy known for committing other murders and he solicits that individual to do the shooting of biggie. And so that individual and probably with another accomplish

go to the Peterson Auto Museum on March 9th of 1997 and they just lie in wait and this biggie and the rest of his entourage including puppy combs are driving away from the Peterson Auto Museum, which is the venue where this big party is taking place. He pulls up alongside the suburban that Biggie's in,

and basically it's a similar type of drive-by. The Tupac was killed in. He just starts shooting. He gets Biggie, and Biggie dies before he gets to the hospital. So that's what happens to Biggie, but it was all a retaliation for what happened to Tupac. And keep in mind, there was rumors. rumors had been spreading for months

that Biggie Smalls was in Las Vegas the night that Tupac was killed. Biggie Smalls had hired the Crips to kill Tupac and that Biggie Smalls had provided the gun that was used to kill Tupac. That was all rumor that was festering. None of it was true. But because those rumors were believed

by people such as Shug Night, Biggie then became the target of his retaliation. And that's why Biggie was shot and killed. And you, did you write a book about the investigation? Yeah. So, again, I was doing the cold case investigation, me and a whole team of people. It wasn't just me. It was, there was actually 16 of us in our task force.

So it was a huge investigative effort by a bunch of different agencies and a bunch of different investigators. And so we ended up getting all of these confessions. We got the confessions of KPD. He confessed to us in 2008, 2009. And then a female who was an intermediary between Shug Knight and the actual gunman. She was one of Shugnight's girlfriends. She was the one that was delivering the money and delivering the orders between Shugnight and the gunman. She ends up confessing to her role in the murder in 2009.

So now we have two confessions in these two. very, very well-known unsolved murders. And so I ended up retiring in 2010. I wrote a book called Murder Rap, and I just detail in the book everything that took place in that investigation and how we got those confessions. How was the woman involved? What was her part?

She was one of Shugnights, Baby, mamas. She had a daughter with Shug Nite. She had been involved in a lot of white color crime with Shugnight, mostly fraud-related stuff, bankruptcy fraud, automobile fraud, licensing fraud, all of these different things. Shug would turn to her to do a lot of fraudulent activity on his behalf. So we were aware of all of that. So we knew that she was criminally complicit in a lot of different things that Shug was involved in. So when we approached her, we put her in a very bad position because we were going to, we told her we're either going to charge you with these white-collar crimes, which means you're going

to go to prison and your children are going to go into probably foster care. Or you can tell us what you know about all of these crimes. And we specifically asked her about the murder of Biggie Smalls and she confesses that she was the intermediary that she met with Shugnight under the. auspices of being a legal aid. So Shugnight's attorney, this very savvy criminal defense attorney, David Kenner, he facilitated at the jail for her to go in and act as if she's one of his legal assistance. That allows Shug Nite to then have confidential conversations, non-monitored conversations because of what we call privileged communications, communications,

between you and your pastor, you and your doctor, you and your lawyer, law enforcement can't monitor those. So he sets it up for her to have conversations privately with Shug while he's in jail. And that's when she says that Shug told her, I need you to reach out, Pucci. That was the nickname of the individual who is the killer. We need you to reach out to him, find out what he wants in return for Kill Biggie. She comes back. She says he wants this amount of money. Shug says fine. Shug facilitates for her to get the money. She then makes those payments and then she goes to the Peterson Auto Museum that night, the same night that Pucci shows up and Pucci lies in wait, shoots and kills me. So she confesses to all of this. Does Shug Knight, I don't know, does he get charged?

He's never been charged because all we have right now is just her testimony against him. So it's he said, she said. We don't. have any recordings of this conversation. It's just her word. And so even though we believe her and she's corroborated in many ways, trying to charge Shugnight just with her testimony would not be very successful. She's got a long history of fraud, which is lying, essentially. So she's got credibility issues. So what did she? She still end up going to jail? Because there was no Oh, so both her, this is interesting. So both her and KPD, when he confessed his role in Tupac's murder, the way that we got these confessions is known under what's in law enforcement

proper. Right. Where they and their attorneys will come in and sit down and have a conversation with the understanding that whatever they say will be used against them. Doesn't mean they have immunity because any other information you develop that implicates them, you can use that. You can still charge them. So it's not immunity, but they are protected from their own self-incrimination.

So we get these confessions back in 2009, but all we have now is this information. We have the truth of what happened, according to these co-confessors, our co-conspirators, but we can't really do too much with it. Both the shooters are dead by this time. Pucci died in 2002. He also died like Orlando Anderson in a gang-related homicide. and so years go by and Keefe feels like well all this time has gone by I haven't been charged and so he writes a book and starts to go on social media platforms and brags about his role that's actually what lands him in jail with the female with um the other co-conspirator in biggie's case she doesn't say a word she doesn't implicate herself in any way shape or form other than the

statement she's given to us, which we can't use. I don't understand. I mean, it seems like these guys are making money. Why are they still committing fraud and doing these stupid things that, like, they're already making money. Yeah, they are a bit, you know, consider the background. You know, they start making money. You want more money.

When is it ever enough? Sugar's making a lot of money. But also, they were spending a lot of money. So if you're going to have that kind of lifestyle where you're just spending millions of dollars, you better be bringing in millions of dollars. And so that was the cycle. It's like, well, yeah, we make a lot of money. We spend a lot of money.

We eat more money. So where do you think all of this goes, if any place? You think it's kind of like it's going to die out? Like you would need more people to come forward. You would need. Well, listen, like I said, all the co-conspirators essentially that were in the Cadillac that rolled up and shot. Tupac, the three of those four are dead. The other fourth guy is being charged in that

murder. So there's really nowhere else to go with that. It's now considered it's no longer an unsolved case. Tupac's case is forevermore, now a solved case. It's no longer a mystery. With Biggie's case, because nobody's been charged, it will remain what we call unsolved. Even though we know what happened, it will remain unsolved. And I really don't see the LAPD making that determination just to clear it based on the information that we currently know. It's funny. So I actually did, I've done a couple of paintings of Biggie. Oh, wow. Because, you know, I got out of prison and I needed to do something, right? Like, I need to make some money while I'm living in somebody's spare room and it's, you know,

and everybody knows I paint my buddies. So I had, I ended up having, I ended up doing some paintings. And then somebody came and said, hey, can you? you paint a big e smalls and i was like that sounds familiar like i didn't even write i looked him up and i he's the guy sent me a picture i said yeah okay so i did i painted a couple paintings of him i actually probably painted four uh pain two just specifically painted and then i ended up doing what's called a a screen print but it's like a modified screen print i had modified it made a screen print and then each one is different and i actually sell those on on a website but I've had other podcast guys by them.

And, you know, so anyway, it's like I had no idea who, I barely knew who Biggie Smalls was. But yeah, I've actually, I've painted a couple Tupac too. I don't have any of those left. I actually have some of the Biggies left. But, yeah, so it's like, listen, I didn't know anything about any of this until I got out like four years ago. and it just kept coming up and coming up. And so I looked into it a little bit. Yeah.

I didn't know anything about him either until I was assigned to investigate Biggie's murder and then I had to get a quick education and I learned about all this background. So what are you doing? What are you doing now? I retired, like I said, in 2010, but then I opened up my own private investigations company. And so that kind of runs its course. and then I got into the book turned into a documentary

I published the book in 2011 it turns into a documentary in 2015 and then in like 2018 Netflix decides to do a limited series based on the book and the documentary and it's called That Solve The Murders of Tupac and Biggie which is still

like you know it's still three years ago that it made it to Netflix four years ago and still one of the popular true crime limited series so that was i you know i was involved in all that in those productions i should have watched that they opened with that so i should have watched that before we talked yeah yeah yeah it's pretty good i thought it was well died um obviously there's some creative license taken when you're putting these type of things to you know to

the art for television but um it was really fun and then that opened doors to do other participate in some other um true crime documentaries okay so i stay busy i play golf okay but that you don't it's your passion you don't do the but there's no more um uh the uh private investigator you said that played at scores or yeah yeah i i uh I still have my company and I take jobs as they come and go, just depending on what they are. I work with a bunch of associates, so for me, I can kind of just delegate some of that work to other people. Yeah, I mean, the next thing in that old saga is going to be the trial of this individual who's being charged with Tupac's murder. And that's set for trial in June in Las Vegas.

And so if he gets convicted, then that will be the final nail in the coffin of that of that story. Well, I mean, he said it on multiple podcasts. He wrote a book about it. I'm not sure how much of a defense he has. Yeah, his defenses, they, uh, I was just, I did that all for entertainment. I was just trying to make money and I was just bragging about it. It doesn't. It's, I don't think it's going to fly.

Okay. All right. Well, do you have any... Unless you want to talk about what you were in prison for. Listen, I talk about what I was in prison for all the time. Okay. I actually just did an interview with Lex Friedman. Oh, wow.

Yeah, that was actually pretty cool. That gave me a little boost on my subscribers and... Oh, good. You know, so that was... It's funny, too, because this almost irritates me. So, you know, I had a lot of time in prison, right? I have a lot of time to do stuff. And, you know, you can't, like, you can't, it's like, what do you do?

I mean, I don't play softball, you know, I don't play handball. You can only walk the tracks so much. There's just not a lot to do. You know, your job is, I taught GED, and I taught a real estate class, which is funny. Oh, wow. Which is what I was in prison for, which was a bank fraud. That makes sense. Related to real estate.

So, but so I started writing. I wrote my, I wrote my personal memoir while I was incarcerated. And I wrote several other guys, you know, because there's so much, like you talk to these guys in prison, you're like, how is this not a movie? But he can't write his story. Or they'll tell themselves. You know, most criminals are just laziness. You know, they're like, well, I'm going to do it when I get out. No, you're not.

You've been locked up eight years. You're never going to have this much time in your life. So I would negotiate a deal with them where it's like, look, if you attach your life rights, I'll write a synopsis of your story. it'll be 10,000 words. And so I got some guys in Rolling Stone magazine doing that. I got some publicity. I optioned some of those stories. And then I wrote some of them I turned into books.

I mean, keep in mind, I had a ton of time. So, you know, and I'm ordering Freedom of Information Acts, Freedom of Public Records Acts. I'm ordering court documents. I'm getting transcripts. Like I'm getting this stuff through the mail. And so it's a long, arduous process. But, you know, super fun. Like it's like being a detective, right?

Like, it's like, oh, my gosh, this makes sense and that. And, you know, you've, so, uh, listen, a lot of these times I knew more about these guys' cases than they did. Wow. So, you know, because a lot of these guys, they get arrested. Like, yeah, that's when I got arrested. I'm like, well, yeah, I understand when you got arrested. But how did the cops know you were there? And they're like, I don't know.

Somebody gave me up. Who? I don't know. You never asked. You never looked into it. And I pled guilty. I'm, they called me with a gun. I'm a convicted felon with a gun.

I got crack on me. I got this. I'm not going to. trial like yeah i'm trying to get the best deal i can so they don't need so i'm not asking questions i'm done yeah so you're like wow right so i would order their documents and i'd come back and i say okay do you know a guy named pokey and i say because he robbed a 7-11 with this guy they caught that guy that guy gave up this guy then he told the detectives that he knew somebody that was selling drugs to you. And he's like, oh my God. And they were like, I never realized his aunt set me up.

You know, it was a whole thing. So, I mean, that would happen often. I'd say that's not, you know, he'd tell me, somebody would think they knew what happened. You get the, you get the FBI 302s and you're like, it's not what happened. Like that guy didn't cooperate. Like somebody else, you know, somebody you went to high school and dated and they'd be, they go, Jennifer, you know, even though it's redacted. So, yeah. But yeah, I wrote a all these guys' stories, and I got out, so back to, back to Lex. I was talking, I told my story on Lex, right? It's long podcast, because I'm a talker. So, but in the, in it, I talk about the guy that filed, he filed two 2255s for me. So, you know, it's 2255. It's like a, is that a Florida thing?

No, no, it's a federal, it's a federal, it's a habeas action where you're saying your, your, your attorney was ineffective. Okay. So you're saying, you know, I got the incorrect sentence. I was given that information. Right. So I talk about the guy who filed those for me and his story and why he was in prison. He's a disbarred attorney. So I tell his whole story briefly, really quickly, which is amazing story. He's a rapid cycling bipolar with features of schizophrenia. He's got a law degree. He's disbarred. And ultimately, he started several companies. And he did what's called. they, it's payroll withholding taxes for these massive companies that he owned, like 30, 40,000 employees, I mean, multiple companies. He ends up being like a, you know, he's one of these guys

that goes in and puts in tons of money and takes over companies and I forget what they call that. But anyway, so he's doing this for years, but what he does is part of his plan was he would take over these companies that are failing and he would stop paying in the payroll tax to the government. And then he would negotiate when it got to be $5 million. million. He'd negotiate it down and then go on a payment plan. But really, he's taking that money and he's diverting it. He ends up diverting like $180 million. And in his mind, he's doing this because he thinks he wants to, he thinks ultimately he's going to take over the world. Since he was a teenager, because of the schizophrenia, since he's a teenager, he's periodically heard the voice of

God telling him, and this is how he says it. He's preordained to be. emperor of the world. And I know it sounds insane, right? It just sounds true. But everybody... Schizophrenia is the bitch, right? But look, he became a lawyer. Then when he lost his license, he opened up all of these, he became this huge investor,

bought all these companies, tried to take over the Congo. He owned several private military, you know, whatever they call them, you know, private security companies. They have contracts in Afghanistan. I mean, I got pictures of him with George Bush. I got pictures of him with politicians. He backed NATO summit. He was one of the backers of a NATO summit.

It's an insane story. I mean, it's so much bigger than, of course, what I did. So I kind of tell this story briefly on Lex Friedman. His book has shot through the roof. Really? I mean, it's almost like it's irritating because I used to sell double whatever, at least double to triple whatever he sold. His book is outselling my book. And I'm like, I talked about my story for six hours.

I talked about him for five minutes. But it is such a great story, such a great story. So that sounds like a, that should be a good option. Right. Like I've optioned. It's so funny too. Yeah. I think the problem is what, when I have spoken with producers,

I have always approached those conversations as, documentaries saying this would make a great documentary because I think that's like the low bar you can get a documentary and if it does well then you can get a series right so I think hey entry level documentary you don't need a lot of money they don't have to be perfect a lot of these guys are out here we can interview them that's a huge plus so but really the truth is like this guy he's never going to cooperate even though he loved the fact that I wrote the book he was giving it out to people. He loves the story. He's all over the place. And so I always see like a series like House of Cards type of series where, you know, not he's president, but he's the president of this company. And he's doing these bizarre things and he's guy. People are doing stuff for him and he's putting this together and he's schmoozing with politician and there's backstabbing. Like I think that would be there's a whole documentary. He tried to take over the Congo. uh during the elections and

is he a white guy yeah yeah it's a documentary it's called a nine days in the congo it's on youtube and uh it's frank amadeo but you got to get jim carry attached to that and it'll just get jim carey and he'll he's the perfect guy to play back i used to always say um oh gosh what's his name he was married to uh rosan bar a tom arnold oh he's okay that's the kind of image of the kind of image of of that guy. Yeah, very similar. I mean, he was sporadic. Like you would, let me give you an example. You'd be talking to him one day about legal work because he's doing legal work. He's essentially running a medium size law firm

from inside of prison. Like he filed all my paperwork because the lawyers on the street, I had 26 years. The lawyers on the street were all telling me, yeah, there's nothing you can do. So I finally go to this guy. He gets seven years knocked off my sentence. And then a year later, he gets five more years knocked off my sentence. So I end up doing 13 years on 26. He got 12 years knocked off my sentence. But what's interesting is you would, and I used to sit near him all the time.

We had like a close table or I'd sit at the table with him. And he would be sitting there talking to some inmate. The guy's telling him about his story. Yeah. A bunch of guys around him, kind of, you know, helping him. They do legal work for him. They type up the motions.

He's got a little team. And you'd be telling me, you'd be telling Frank, your story, and he would go, that makes me so angry. I can't believe they've done this. You know, based on Johnson versus Brown in the United States, they cannot do this. And then he would go straight manic and he'd go, when that is exactly what. When my troops march on Washington, I will burn the Constitution and the president will

kneel at my feet. And everybody would just be totally steel, still, like you don't say anything. You're just like, holy shit. And then he'd go. okay i'm going to need a 2255 form i'm going to need you to give me a copy of your of your transcripts i'm also going to need your sentencing transfers i'm going to need a copy of your indictment and i'm going to need your PSI get that as soon as possible and the guys be like uh okay frank okay and then they walk that's it you just go right back into it and you forget about that

completely that's what i was dealing with that's fantastic it's almost like a i mean there's just a touch of genius there in uh which is so sad because you know having been in prison like i've met many schizophrenics and many many people's bipolar disorder obviously a lot of them end up in prison and it's funny that how many of them are just super smart but chemically they're just so unbalanced they yeah they end up doing really you know sometimes that they're sometimes they're just stupid things and sometimes they're horrific so you know yeah like we fall up their meds. Holy smokes. It goes sideways fast. And then they don't want to take their meds because they take them. They start feeling normal. And then they think, I don't need these. I'm good.

It's like, no. Good. No. The cycle right there. Well, listen, I will let you go. Okay. By any. Hey, thanks for sharing that. That was actually great. I love that story. Yeah, it's, yeah, listen, if you send me your address, like if you text me your address, I'll mail you a copy of the book. Oh, wonderful. Thank you. Rolling Stone article.

Tell me about the Rolling Stone article. Yeah, it just drops today. At least I just got a copy of the online issue. I don't know if it's at the newsstands yet, but yeah, this big Rolling Stone article that the author has been working on for almost two months, I think. It just dropped today and it really lays out all of the different aspects of T-Pox murder and how we got to where we're at today. and it's a really, really well-written story and a great read. So anybody that's interested in knowing a little bit more than we talked about here, I would recommend looking at that Rolling Stones article that just dropped.

But also, I wanted to bug bit. Me and my producing partner, a guy named Mike Dorsey, we just started our own YouTube channel. It's called The Murder Rap. Right. So The Murder Wrap on YouTube. And Mike puts together these really great short deep dive videos that go into different. and components are both Biggie and Tupac's murder.

So that's, we're getting this thing up and running. So I'm hoping that people will kind of, you know, drift over there and look at the channel and hopefully follow and like it. So we'd love to see it grow. And we're going to just continue to build it into something I think that people will appreciate it. Is the whole channel just, it's not, right now it's on the Tupac and Biggie. But ultimately, are you planning on interviewing people or? Oh, yeah, we're going to build this.

So first of all, we're just going to do these little deep dive videos. You should kind of see the quality of the stuff that my partner produces. But we're ultimately going to go into the whole gamut of true crime. We're working on a big documentary right now. We're going to have an accompanying podcast on this story about a guiding Christopher Dorner, who back in 2013 was this rogue, disbreddled, the LAPD cop. It went on a shooting spree and killed a bunch of people. and a really fascinating story.

And it's very relevant to today because of the social environment that we live in with gun issues and racially, she's and blah, blah, blah. So we're going to really explore that. It's never been done before in any kind of comprehensive way. We've got another serial killer case we're working on.

So we're going to be doing a whole bunch of true crime stuff as we move forward. You know what might be interesting, too, is I always remember the kind of like the movie Heat was semi-based on that shootout where the bank robbery. Yeah, that they called a EAA shooting. Yeah. That was, like, I've always wondered what those guys' backstory was.

Right. Like, obviously, we know how it ended, but the backstory to how that ended up happening, you know, and the things that they had done and been in and out of prison, how they ended up, you know, how do you bump into a buddy and say, hey, let's go rob a bank? or they robbed several, I know, but I'm pretty sure, right? Hadn't they rob several? Oh, you were so right about that. And I'm so surprised that nobody's really told that story in any kind of cohesive, comprehensive way

because that's an incredible event in L.A. history. And some of the guys I used to work with at Robbery Homicide Division were actually investigators on that case. So that's a great, that's a great story that's yet untold. How cool is that, too? You just have one of those guys over. Like, you're going to have a studio. You'll have them over to the studio.

You don't have to do that much research. You can just have a conversation and he can lay out exactly. He probably knows all the backstory and everything to those guys and how it ended up. Tell that over the course of two or three hours, you know, break it up. Stop, have a lunch, whatever. That's great. I appreciate you so much. Thank you, first of all, for suggestions, but your willingness and generosity and helping to, you know, helping us, helping another person trying to do what you.

do it's funny that's that's a funny thing i've always i i've no there's a couple some people that are kind of like competitive YouTubers yeah but for the most part I'd say 90% of the guys that I've met are always willing to help it's great no um yeah so but yeah and if like I said if you if you if you want you know I can give you a slew of names I mean they won't all be kind of law enforcement, you know, if you're, if you, if you don't mind going on a few that are, you know, that are like former criminals, but, you know, I am, I, I, those are the best conversations. I'm not necessarily interested in always talking to cops, you know, I know that world blowing up. Um, and we, so yeah, I really enjoy, um, listening to the stories of other people's lives and, and sharing the story of my own bit. Um, like, I went on the Babylon B. years ago. Okay. You know what that is?

Oh, you don't know the Babylon? Well, it's probably in prison. I've only been out like four years. I don't know anything. It's huge. They're a satire. Okay. They do satire, but it's really, really funny stuff.

Very conservative satire. So I went on that, knowing that it was going to be half, you know, half-hearted or not half-partied, but it wasn't going to be something you have to go on and be really serious with. So I love that. I love all the different genres and styles. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the interview. If you liked it, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this.

Also, please consider joining my Clips channel. I have a Clips channel where I'll take a video like this and cut them up into the essential story so you don't have to watch an hour-long podcast. And please consider joining my Patreon. Thank you guys so much. See you.