Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Minds of Psychopaths: Wild Stories from an ATF Agent

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

Matt and Ignacio share stories about psychopaths. Ignacio's Books https://www.amazon.com/stores/Ignacio-J.-Esteban/author/B09NCKP6F8?ref=ap_rdr&store_ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true Follow me on all socials! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mattcoxtruecrime Do you want to be a guest? Send me an email here: [e-mail] Do you want a custom "con man" painting to shown up at your doorstep every month? Subscribe to my Patreon: https: //www.patreon.com/insidetruecrime Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8 Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438 The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402 Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1 Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel! Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here: Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69 Cashapp: $coxcon69

On July 18th, get excited. This is big! For the summer's biggest adventure. I think I just smurf my pants. That's a little too excited. Sorry. Smurfs. Only date is July 18th.

People don't realize how many of these serial killers are among us. They're everywhere. You don't have to be a guy like Bundy or Dahmer who have these high or John Wee Gacy who has these crazy numbers, right? 30, 40, 50, whatever. Some people are serial killers and they kill every so often. You know, they may have four or five, but you know, the key is they kill few, they lay low, seem to go down, and they keep on doing it again.

Some of the guys, and they live in society like normal. They have a normal life and they're Jekyll and Hyde. And then at night they do House of Horrors. It's scary. And I think people need to know how dangerous serial killers are everywhere. I think people don't understand how prolific they are. I heard the other day that the average person comes in. or crosses the path of something like was it like three to six three or it was like

three or six um psychopaths a day that they actually come into contact with and don't even know it you know what john way gasey's last words were i mean bundy at least when he was fried there and old sparky his last words were say tell my family i love them and you know whatever all that at least that's something right right john way gaysa kissed my ass that's his last words my ass. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Ignacio Esteban. He is a former ATF agent, retired, and he's written several true crime books based on various cases.

I just finished one of them, and we're going to do an interview. So, check it out. What's going on, Matt? Hey, what's going on? Nice to be back on your show, the second one. Yeah. Yeah, how did the first show do? It did all right, right?

Yeah, I think about over, what, 13,000 views of Foreign County. Yeah, that's good. Very good number. People liked it. Some liked it and some not so big fans of ATF. You know, you, yeah, well, like I said before, you, you know, you always have some guy who's saying, This guy's full of shit. Listen, I did one.

It's funny because I had a guy that I researched his entire case. I wrote a, I wrote a synopsis, about a 12,000 word synopsis on his case, researched it, saw all the documents, everything. And there were guys in the comment section, that's bullshit. That never happened. Like, he said this. And he, like, this isn't the guy saying it. Like, I ordered the police report. This is the police saying this is what happened.

Right, right. I didn't just take his word for it. And, you know, I, even on my own. every once while you get somebody saying, you know, this guy's full of shit, you know, this didn't happen, that didn't happen. It's like, okay, well, if those things didn't happen, why did I go to federal prison? They didn't send me there for no reason. Like my charges are, you know, there's real.

Right. So, but, you know, there's always going to be, I always say for, for, listen, for every 90 to 100 guys that tell me, say wonderful things, there's always one guy or two guys that are just like, they, and they'll hate you for no reason. Yeah. Yeah. Some people just like putting bad reviews because they like putting bad reviews. They're not taking you find anything. Well, and listen, to be honest, like those are the ones I typically react to, too.

So I'm only helping that situation by reacting to them. Yeah, I've learned to ignore it now. Yeah. I just ignore them. I ignore them completely and they do go away because a lot of them a haters because they can't do it themselves. They have nothing and they sit behind a computer. A lot of people can be really badasses behind a computer with a fictitious username and put ridiculous stuff out there, but face to face, they wouldn't do that.

Listen, not even face to face. Sometimes if you just respond to them, like I not even mean, you just say, wow, bro, I don't know why you would say that. Like, this is what happened. I'm not sure where you're getting that. They'll come back almost immediately and say, yo, oh, bro, I didn't mean that. I didn't realize. Yeah, I was drinking last night when I wrote that.

It's like, like, they really just want attention. Yeah, yeah. That's unfortunate you do see a lot of kids like that. And who knows, maybe they are underage and they're just being goofy and they're going out there and just doing, you know, silly things because people create these fictitious accounts. We all know that. Yeah. And then a young kid just and they know it. They like stir things up too.

So that's why a lot of times I've learned. I saw some really nasty things, not in this one, but other shows and I'm like, I'm not going to even respond to anything like that. You said something about the red light district back here. Listen, I got a red wall. I painted the red wall. I have, I usually, I just took down, I had a bunch of Maryland Monroe paintings. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.

I took them now, now. Oh. So I'm going, I'm going minimal. It's just going to be a red wall with the soundproofing, the mics. It's going to change everything. It's going to be huge. I think you'll see that. I like it.

Yeah. I like it. I do like Marilyn Monroe, though. I'm a big fan, no doubt. Yeah. I mean, I make those, I don't know if you've ever seen, I make them their, they're modified screen print. So it's a screen print of Marilyn Monroe, but every one of them is different, like different colors. Yeah, I saw a few of them.

Yes, I like that. So I sell those on Etsy, although sales have dropped recently. The last few months, everything's starting to go south, even book sales. Might have been steady. Might have been steady. And the more shows I do, the more the numbers are going higher and higher. And I do a lot. I'm not just true crime, as we talked before.

I do politics. I do travel. I do a few books of my daughter, kids' books, too. So if I like kids' books, I've done that with a really good message, family, wholesome messages. I just do a variety of things. I really enjoy it. And I just did a crazy one on psycho killers. And of course, you listen to my auto.

And now I'm really getting with Sean. And you know Sean well. I'm because of you. Excellent, excellent voice actor. I've been working with him. I have this big one that's going to come out soon, about seven hours, almost seven hours, the most dangerous crime syndicates of our time, which is just from A to Z, soup to nuts, a lot of my shorts put together dealing with the one percenters, Tali Mafia, Mexican cartels,

Yakuza, street gangs, prison gangs, all in there, all in there. So if you really don't have a good handle, this book will put you to start getting in the right direction. so I think it's going to be really good seven hours so I look for that one coming out you've been working hard on this one do you do you ever do anything on the the Chinese gangs in like L.A. the triads in my street gang book there's a chapter on that yeah there's ganges yeah I'm working on a story right now on on the on them on the triads okay cool cool I was going to ask you I did a book also in MS 13 and you guys are in pasco and it's a true crime channel what the heck happened holiday with a poor uber

driver with an ms 13 guy that goes in there and kills him and takes him apart you see that i i heard it on the news i mean just i about that the savagery and brutality of ms 13 mara savacucha they're not just in la anymore they're nationwide canada and they've gone enormous in Central America because where their roots came from. They went back and they're pretty much taken over El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, and southern

Mexico. They're spreading. Is it El Salvador where the president, they elected the president, he built that huge prison and just went and arrested like 10,000 of them or something? Yeah, they're trying to, but it's like you stop them more they keep on spreading, right? Like ants, you hit the empire and they just keep on

coming around. It's cultural. It's just, And when people are in that culture, it's hard to, you incarcerate them, but they're so hardcore, they don't care. They come out. They'll come back at it again. So what I'm reading, what I saw, I meant him briefly from Pascoe, and I need Sheriff White from before out there since I worked so many years out there. And I know you're in that area. Unbelievable in holiday, that poor Uber driver goes near Texas his wife.

Hey, this is my last delivery of the day. I should be home right afterwards, right? That's the last thing he does, man. He walks in the door and it's lights out. Guy kills him and horror stories. And I guess he was putting his body in like body bags. So unbelievable. You just don't.

It's dangerous. Anywhere I tell people, and I think with psycho killers, I talk about the element, the culture, and what happens. People don't realize how many of these serial killers are among us. They're everywhere. You don't have to be a guy like Bundy or Dahmer who have these high or John Way Gasey who has these crazy numbers. right 30 40 50 whatever some people are serial killers and they kill every so often you know they

may have four or five but you know the key is they kill few they lay low seem go down and they keep on doing again some of the guys and they live in society like normal they have a normal life and they jekyll and hide and then at night they do house of horrors well especially if you can get away with it they get away with it because a lot of times they don't even it there's just opportunities like suddenly the opportunity's there and they just boom they snap and like a long-distance truck driver or something like how are you going to catch that guy he killed somebody gets in his truck he didn't know him there's no connection yeah they get a lot of prostitutes right these people hitters yeah right people people loners homeless people people the society don't care

about right they don't get a missile kind of people and they prey on those people and and do horrible horrible things oh i know we're talking about my book but i'll tell you one story here and and hopefully people read this book it's going really popular and it's called psycho uh killers right and i talk about you know i mentioned the the domers and the bundies and the gaysies and i also did a little history on on h h holmes i guess america's first original big serial killer but some people think was jack the ripper also and and we can talk about that on a different show why similarities that because he was also in uh london 1888 during that time period he also came back he had family that was also British. So there's a lot of connections between, and he was a doctor. Because the guy who did

with Dr. Ripper was someone who was a physician because they were very quick in dismanting the organs and taking things out because that's what Ripper did within two minutes. He would take out these females organs and everything else and remember them really quickly. And this guy was also very good at that. So those things we can talk about later with Holmes and the comparisons. There's even a family member out there who believes that his great-great-grandfather was Jack the Ripper. he makes a great argument why he thinks so and stuff like that which is fascinating but i'll talk about a quick story here about what makes a serial killer here uh you you had uh richar ramirez right the knight stalker right he he's my last chapter in my book there chapter 12 there's the original

night stalker which is uh joseph de angelo who was a former police officer who becomes a serial rapist and serial killer at the time and he he is the original nice stalker but they think they're the one and the same. Then later with DNA and evidence, they realized these were two different killers killing in California at the same time, right? So you got massive, lots of serial killers out there. I didn't know there was a second

guy called the Knight Stalker. I thought that was just the one. Yeah, no, he's the original night stalker DiAngelo. Joseph DeAngelo. Former cop who becomes serial rapists and then they evolve. First he starts into the burglaries. He goes south and then he goes into, and he was a burglary detective

for years. So that's why he became good at that. Then he changes, goes to the dark side, starts doing it. Then he gets into raping the women, tying them up, right? I think he raped over 60-some women. They're saying the numbers are heinous in California. And then he became, they start killing them. So, I mean, he would do some real sadistic things when he would tie them up. I'll give one example real quick.

He goes, and he liked to target elderly couple, you know, people that won't be as resistant, right? And let's say he'll tie up the guy. He'll say, listen, I'm going to put these dishes on your back. If I'm hearing any movement from the dishes, right? Because I know you're trying to get out of that. They fall off your back. That means you're trying to get out when I just tied you up here because he's raping his wife, right? I'm going to kill your children in the house too.

So I'm going to do what I'm going to do here. I see any movement. This is all documented reports where he said and he confessed to all this. So he talks about what he did. This is, I mean, when I read this stuff, I'm in shock. What's going on here? So that's how sadistic people are. You imagine that shit?

they come in he comes in with a flashlight and he says this is what i'm going to do to you so that's de angelo he is the original nice talker this guy is also will be called a nice talk because they thought we detected they were one the same but they weren't they're different guys and uh this guy de angelo uh this guy ramirez he is he is pretty much psychologists say he wasn't born a psychopath he was made into a psychopath uh i'm going to tell you real quick how he was made to it and this is a family of serial killers now i'm going to explain to how he had he was he was in a family of serial killers which is unbelievable i didn't know any of this until i started researching all this myself and i started looking at it his cousin was a decorated

green beret in vietnam older than him but he was killing young vietnamese women over there and he was really sick he would dismember them he was decapitate them and then use his polaroid camera and take pictures of all that this would be documented by ramirez when he confessed later all the stuff and what they find. So he's a Dickerickman, he's in Vietnam, and he's doing House of Horrors on these young women, right? He gets away for four years, never gets convicted of it. He comes back to the U.S., and he starts indoctrine his younger cousin, how to be really

sadistic against women. And he starts developing a taste to hurt women, pretty much at an early age. He gets into drugs, he gets an LSD, he starts using cocaine, and he starts growing into, and he teaches him the tricks of being a beret, how to stalk people. how to kill someone quietly, how to do things and how to, you know, everything, everything he did, he teaches. He even snaps one time and kills his wife. This is the Green Beret, kills his wife in front of him in a rage, shoots her and kills her, right? He witnesses the whole thing. He gets away with it because he claims that PTSD from the war, right? And he's ruled

not guilty reason of insanity, right? He does some few years in the mental hospital and Texas and comes back out and goes back with him. And they asked him, how did that impact to you? Seeing your cousin kill his wife like that. He said, it didn't bother me at all. I was just fascinated by it. It just fed into a kind of person he was making me. Buried by the U.S. government and ignored by the national media, this is the story

they don't want you to know. When Frank Amadeo met with President George W. Bush at the White House to discuss NATO operations in Afghanistan, no one knew. that he'd already embezzled nearly $200 million from the federal government. Money he intended to use to bankroll his plan to take over the world. From Amadeo's global headquarters in the shadow of Florida's Disney World, with a nearly inexhaustible supply of the Internal Revenue Services funds, Amadeo acquired multiple businesses, amassing a mega conglomerate.

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available now on amazon and audible so i talk a lot about ramirez and the stuff he does is absolutely horrific to to his victims so if you're interested in this and you want to know more the psychology what we just talked about psycho killers has a lot of that and stories i had no idea. I mean, I started dabbling into it, and I had no idea how sick and perverted these people really are. Yeah, I watched the documentary on Netflix on Ramirez. It's like a six-part series or something with the two detectives. Yeah, it was a nice talker, right? Yeah. The nice talker, right? It was actually, you know, let's, I mean, for, you know, obviously they don't, most of the people are just not either around or don't want to be, speak about it.

not a lot of B-roll, you know, just the, but the interviews and the B-roll that they did come up with, like, they did an amazing job on that, on that series. Like, it was, it was, it was really good. The same thing with Bundy. Yeah, did you ever see that? That's in Bundy. And Dahmer has a good one, too. Yeah, I never saw the Dommer. The Domber one really bothers me.

The Bundy one was, uh, was really good because I, there were so much stuff that I, like, I didn't know. I didn't know he had escaped from prison multiple times. I didn't know. Yes, he did. Yeah, how many times he'd come close to getting caught. Yeah. House of Horrors in the sorority in Florida State, isn't it? He escapes from prison.

They have him for a homicide charge. He walks out the front door dressed as the jailer, right? Dress as the jailer. Yeah, I think so. He walks out the front door. He's gone for months. He takes trains, planes. He's all over the country until he settles in Tallahassee, and he snapped.

He said he was trying to get, you know, because he confesses later. I read his reports. I read everything. That's what I do. I read a lot. And he says that he was trying to get construction work, but they did a background check on him. And he couldn't pass the background because obviously he has been arrested, right?

Yeah, but I mean, he's supposed to be in person. Fictitious IDs and all that. He just can't get through it. So he gets triggered. He got triggered. And then when it gets triggered, he goes in the sorority house. I think it's Kyle Omega. And he goes in there and commits House of Horrors in there.

and it's just horrible. And the details and what he does, it's just, if you want to see a little detail, I put in my book, how sadistic, how sick this guy is. And a lot of these guys

get a sexual charge while they're doing this, by the way. They really enjoy this. And that's evidence also against them that comes out of there. So it's a lot of stuff these guys leave behind,

you know, physically, but also emotionally, baggage and stuff. They're really, really sick. And he was an intelligent guy, went to law school.

I don't think he graduated. He had issues there. He struggled with that. but still smart enough guy to figure out how to work the system. And he was an attractive guy where he was able to trick a lot of the young female. And he liked young females that look like brown hair, part of the hair in the back. He had a certain type that he liked, very similar to his girlfriend. And that's an interesting read there.

I mean, she is living with a serial killer. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Then he ends up getting married once he's locked up. All these guys do. All these guys end up getting. You know what, John? Wayne Gacy's last words were.

I mean, Bundy, at least when he was fried there and old Sparky, his last words were, say, I tell my family I love them and, you know, whatever, all that. At least that's something, right? Right. John Wayne Gaisa, kiss my ass. That's his last words. Kiss my ass.

Before they put the inject them. And he says, kiss my ass. Like saying, he had no remorse. He killed over 30, and he loved young boys. He loved young teenagers. He was the clown. Pogo the clown. Polo the Clown, right? He was successful.

That's creepy. Creepy because he was very popular in the community. He was very active. He helped people. Like you said, he has a dual Jekyll and Hyde. He said, I'm helpful. I'm a nice guy. But then I'm also a creepy guy that's going to take her son and kill him.

And you're never going to see him again. And he, I don't get to. Like, he's living in the house with the smell. The bodies are buried in the... Everywhere. The body's everywhere. Yeah. What?

I mean, I, I, I don't. get, well, I mean, obviously, you know, there are certain things that just come along with with different mental conditions, obviously. The idea that he wouldn't dispose of the body somewhere else, like how hard, it always kills me. It's like these guys murder somebody and then they leave the body in the, in the living room for two days. And when it starts smelling, then they, they bear it outside. It's like, you can't, if you're able to kill someone, like you can, I mean, you've got a job. Like, I mean, you're paying your bills. You should be able to think far enough in advance to say, hey, I can't.

cannot leave this body here and I'm not going to bury it in my backyard I need to get rid of it like they just no just buried in the backyard it's easier talking about leaving stuff around how about Dahmer man I know you don't you don't like really much about Dahmer yeah but that one incident that he has was I mean again he he had a thing for black male prostitutes right right but he also went with Asians too and he had that young boy from Laos right a famous story where he he he's the one who drilled the whole in the head yes he's he's so he's so messed up that he's he's drinking he's an alcoholic right and people who don't know dommer domer's a severe alcoholic and something he goes in these stupors and or he'll get more beer and he left me he thought he was he wanted to make him an ultimate sex slave right that was his work he wanted to inject this guy so he can really get control manipulative he really was was crazy out there but when he came back from the bar and to get more beer whatever he really liked drinking a lot of beer and when he came back this is milwaukee and when he came back uh he saw the kid fully naked talking to his women at a bus stop and he was

rambling and louse and he almost freaked out right when i was reading in the reports so and they said well he he's my gay lover he's 19 years old we had dispute he gets like that when he drinks too much i guess he's just take him back and it'll be okay and she said no we were called the the police are on the way. So Milwaukee's finest, the police department comes in. They start checking. They call fire, you know, fire rescue. They come out because he's also bleeding in private areas and his anus and other spots too. You know, that's normal. We have sex and all that. Explain all that all this stuff to the police officers. And because he's incoherent, he can't speak in English right now. He's speaking in Laos. And he's like, oh, he's drunk.

And he said, okay, we just had a dispute. I said, okay, what do you guys live? We're right up here. Okay, let me take you back. And they escort. them back to his apartment he even tells me he tells me the report he thanks something you guys are doing a great job out here crime is out of control i appreciate everything you've done wow he puts him in so okay an officer's last word something take care of him says i will and he had him he killed him with before they even got back to the car right immediately he injected them again and dismembered him and devoured him um yeah this is never getting monetized by the way Huh?

This video is never getting monetized. Why? You know, you know how that works? Uh-uh. Okay. So monetization on a video, like, they will limit your monetization or make it just completely unadvertiser-friendly. It's a true prime channel. What do they want?

I know what you're saying, but like I say 99% of all my videos get monetized because we try and stay. away from certain things. And because I typically don't talk about violence. Oh, that's what true crime is or violence. Not, but my, my channel isn't really violent. If you're watching in my videos, there's mostly it's scams and cons. And even if it's stuff like buying, you know, even your stuff wasn't violent that we talked about because it was more about buying, you know, this is violent. This is true crime right here. This is as heinous as it gets. And if you're fascinated by this stuff, look at psycho killers and we can we can talk about like don't hold back keep pushing the book yeah I think I think it's fascinating I know people love it and

every time I see people talk about it the views are always enormous so yeah you know what's funny is like 80% of of violent true crime um is is women yeah women and then gay males really you see a lot of gay males prostitutes prostitutes prostit suffer. These are people who people don't care about, right? Right. No, no, no, no, no. I don't mean the victims of it.

I mean, the people, the consumers, the people that watch it. Oh, really? Yeah. So my analytics on my channel, it's 95% male. Right. I would imagine. But for some reason, like if I talked about murders and serial killers, like if it was that kind of channel, then 80% of it would be.

uh female would be watching it women are we never guess that yeah women are super attracted to the more violent types of violent murders and serial killings and things like i wonder if that because they're scared and they want to protect themselves what mistakes these women made and learn from them maybe i don't know i don't know i really thought my channel would be more female like there'd be a lot of female at least a 50 50 mix or maybe 25 35 like but because i don't really you know really I guess talk about a lot of violence then it's just it hasn't picked up with it slowly initially it was like 99% 98 now I think it's down to it's actually been getting better but that that is fascinating I think everybody should be interested because it could impact because

the victims are not just women there's that misconception there's just the victims are women no no no a lot of men also get taken by by these serial killers also and couples Elderly couples, I remember Ramirez, you saw the, you saw the document that Ramirez. He picked them, he picked an elderly couples and there's 60s and 70s. So, so my gym, for gender, right, last 28 days, it's been male, 92.5% female, 70.4%. Seven percent. Yeah. So it's, and then 1% is user nonspecific.

Uh, or sorry, sorry, 0.1% is user non specific. so yeah so the bulk of it is so it's not 95 now it's down to 92 but yeah the bulk of it is is a is male on my channel which is insane but yeah you're you're right maybe it is because maybe it's because women are concerned or in fear or worried about me they should be yeah they're targeted there's no doubt about it we'll tone it down with the violence I won't go I was going to go more details on stuff I've toned down um but you're right because I notice that a lot of the purchasers were women of my book yeah so that's interesting okay how is um how is the audio uh doing i want to work on audio on that that's me and sean we work a bit i'm busy like i said with the the worst mash the worst uh uh crime syndics of our time and work on that way uh so it's a

lot of books out there i've just finished atf undercover obviously you see the poster back there working that one that's the one i listen to right yeah What did you think of it? I thought it was funny. I was working out with my wife this morning and I was listening because I told you I listened to most of it this morning when I was working out about 45 minutes. And, you know, you don't really do scenes. You know what I'm saying? Like you you don't, when I say scenes, I mean you don't, you don't, and this is what kills me is like, and I mentioned to her.

I said, this guy was in the room with these criminals. like but he's not re you don't yours is written it's very informative this happened this happened i said this they said this but you don't reinvent or or put the dialogue so every once while you'll have some a piece of dialogue where i tend to do redo a scene like they said this i said this and i'll do some narration on what the dialogue is because you can't go back and forth back and forth it's too much but i notice that you don't really do that you're getting you very quickly get to just the core information. The meat and potato?

Yes. And you're like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like I wanted to know when you had, you know, a problem with your, the, I mean, you name what they are, but the supervisors, whatever. Sure. I know you're called the GPPPT, you know, you give them the initials. Like, I don't know what that means. But obviously this supervisor and then his supervisor, like, you just basically say, you know, there was a dispute. Like we never got along.

Like, what were some of those? events like you you kind of skim over those and and to me that's i would have liked to have known like you're saying the guy was a jerk but why was he a jerk like what did he actually you give some examples that i get some examples yeah you do but but it'd be interesting to see that one more one more i want more i want more dialogue i want to see a little bit not a ton i don't like a ton just enough to get the so that you kind of know oh he's snide he's making snide comments or oh that was kind of a dick thing to say and yeah and the books also i delve into that the waste fraud and abuse yeah the good the bad and the ugly of ATF right yeah it's not just me buying dope and guns right

it it's it's i tell you about that's too my also my personal life right yeah it's what my went through my family my dad's passing from pancreatic cancer how difficult that was yeah i mean it was the best of times it was the worst of times charles dickens right and i i personally experienced that in 2006, got married, came back from Europe, beautiful vacation, from the Canary Islands and Spain, and then also my father gets sick and he deteriorated. He was a very healthy man, very healthy guy. He didn't drink much. 66? 66 years old. It didn't smoke much. They didn't smoke any. They didn't drink any. Very fit. It was a big cyclist, an avidicist. Love to work out, but he got diagnosed for stage four pancreatic cancer, and it was within seven months, that was it. And he

deteriorated immensely quickly. So those are hard things to go through and live through. And while you're still having your caseload in Tampa, back and forth, Miami, have a newlywood, a new wife. There's a lot of things thrown at you in my early 30s. So, you know, those are things you got to carry. Well, what I was wondering about, and I've noticed this, I noticed it in the BOP, you know, when I was locked up.

And I had heard this from officer saying this. And I've noticed this, basically in the federal government, You even say, you don't still get this kind of, this kind of behavior other than the federal government. The private sector, are you? Huh? In the private sector, you act. Oh, yeah, you fired. Instead, they just, they just transfer you.

So, and then a lot of times in the BOP, what I, it was explained to me, they said a lot of times what happens is they'll say, we want to transfer you, but they can't make, they can't force you to do it. So they're like, we can't fire them. We can't transfer them. They said the only way you can force them to take the transfer is to give them a raise. There we go. So if you say, look, we're going to make you, so we're going to make you a case manager. Or, you know, right now you're a counselor. We're desperate to get rid of this fucking guy.

You know what we're going to do? We're going to give him a raise. We'll make them a case manager at this other institution get rid of them. Yeah. So then they tell the other institution, this guy's amazing. Yeah, sure. great. So what happens is the worst of an employee you are, the more sometimes, not always,

but a lot of times you get these problemed individuals that keep getting in ways or advancing and they shouldn't be advanced. Yeah, I had some doozies. I had some dozies in Tampa and in Florida. I always said, this is my motto. I don't know if I said last time of your show, the bad guys were the easy part. It really were. because I had to overcome so many hurdles as the case agent, as the undercover.

I also was the Volcustodian, did my own workups. ATE have a smaller agency than FBI and DEA. So I have to wear many, many hats and do many, many things. And we have a bad supervisor or even worse, a horrible prosecutor. Nothing's worse. The same thing applies in the Department of Justice all over. You get a bad prosecutor who doesn't do justice to your case. It can all unravel.

And you spend a year, year and a half. putting it together that that is so frustrating that's one thing i like about what i'm doing now as a writer and getting now involved more and more maybe movie production maybe tv series production is you can work as hard as you want and be successful as you want and produce as much as you want while in the federal government that's not always the case and there's people that want to hold you back and don't want you to succeed and there's a lot of issues that people just don't understand the ins and outs of the government and politics that make it hard sometimes to overcome And it's a lot of personal vendetta and personal grudges.

People can be very, very nasty that way and make it very difficult. Like that one case, I mean, one of my supervisor had, he was very angry at another undercover. You know, he decided to take it out on him, a supervisor, right? And we had an H2, a Hummer. You know, H2 is a very large. People who don't know, it's a very large vehicle, very expensive vehicle, maintained. It was supposed to be it only for selective use to undercover work. It's a flash car, right?

You know, you're going to do a by bus. It's a car you use very selectively. This guy decides, I'm taking away from him. I'm going to punish you. And now it's my G-ride. And I'm going to use it all the time. He lived in Land of Lakes, by the way, in Pascoe. And he had to go down to Tampa.

And he's gassing up twice a day once I get there. Because he's getting maybe nine miles a gallon. Right. He did that for over four to five years, right? He even had agents come in early because in downtown area, he couldn't fit that monster. parking garage so he would have an agent get in there park early on the side and when he said hey i'm on my way i'm around he would have to pull his car out so he can park you can't make this shit up

unfortunately this is all real stuff and he will park aside so of course he puts his placard there so the city's not making any money from that he keeps that out all day so he was a control free and the amount excessive money town field division spent and the asac knew about the sack knew about it but they did nothing because they didn't want that conflict that battle so that's a waste fraud you know how much more he should have a regular car like everybody else did and a supervisor should not have that kind of car and that's one a main example and he would later i was friends him in the beginning but later take it out on me because of issues we had because my partner i think i mentioned last show the poor rican bullet catcher right he was involved in that famous shooting

in miami which rippling believe it or not did a big episode on after he retired where he takes around from a bad guy who shoots into his gun right uh he had a sick nine millimeter. He has a sick nine millimeter. And when he's trying to arrest a guy in Hyaliyah, he fires around him and he catches in his barrel. He catches it in and plugs his barrel. He can't shoot the guy. But the goodness, the Hyaliyah SWAT team is on the other side of the vehicle and opens up on him and takes care of that guy. He's very lucky. But the glass shatters on him and everything else. He's lucky around. But he goes to war with that guy. But he was my mentor. And I worked with a guy. And he wants me to turn me against him now. This is the kind of guy he is.

I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not going to say, I want you to shun him. don't talk to him, don't deal with him and everything else. Oh, you don't do what I was saying? He went to war with me. And I was a highly successful agent makes some of the biggest cases at undercover apartments and everything else. He doesn't give a crap. He doesn't give a shit.

The next thing I know... Fibaldish. Fucking unbelievable. And the next thing I know, I end up, I have to get transferred to Miami because the sack says to me, she was a female, and she's had it with a whole situation. He says, it seems like the wall has been poisoned.

And I have a weekend to figure out where I want to go. If now I'm going to find your home. And that's after 12 years being successful in Tampa. So I spoke to my wife. And at the time, my grandmother was very ill. I said, well, I guess I go to Miami. He says, oh, how wonderful. How wonderful.

You've been making a lot of new friends. It's all true, though. It's unfortunate, folks. That's the reality of the federal government. And at least the private sector, people fire each other. Because I work also in the private sector. You're not competent. You're a buffoon.

You're losing money for the company, right? Are they going to keep dead. weight? No, they're going to get rid of you. You work in the private sector. You know that, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, no, they'll, yeah. Oh, yeah, listen, not just that, not even not just pulling your weight if you're not making money, if you're a drain, if you're, even if there's a conflict, is there, we're going to get rid of the guy who's causing the conflict, you know? How about, how about an alcoholic? You can't get rid of alcoholics.

We had guys in the government you can't grow because it's considered disease, right? there's there's guys in the BOP that are hooked on hooked on pain pill I mean the cops are coming the correctional officers are coming in there high on pain pills they're you know they're they're maniacs I've written some about the corruption in some of these prison systems also in my books prison gang killers and some of the corruption is enormous

all the way to the top all the way to the top what was the thing in that there was a state prison where they were the guards could control the movement of the inmates by opening gates and they would end up letting two rival gang inmates into an area and they were taking bets on who would win. Oh, yeah. I've seen that too. Or how about a lot of the female inmates getting pregnant by the guards there and everything

else, right? Yeah. That happens a lot. I think the chief one out there in Maryland, I don't say it was in Baltimore, had like four or five females pregnant. Yeah. My, so my, you know what? What's interesting is, so my wife was locked up in Coleman.

You know, Coleman had a massive lawsuit against a bunch of women getting, you know, raped. Oh, right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was, it was big. And she was there with all these girls. And she'll tell you. By whom?

The COs. Really? Right. But here's the thing. Like when she'll sit there and she'll go, she'll say, her version is, which I believe, is that the girls were literally targeting the COs. Like, they're flirting with them. They're trying to sleep with them.

And then they get the COs bring stuff in for them. So they bring in food. They bring in, you know, they'll bring in cell phones. They'll bring in all kinds of stuff. And then they're sleeping with the inmates. So, but technically the COs, if they have sex with an inmate, it's rape. the inmate, a female or male inmate cannot give consent, therefore it's forcible or therefore it's rape. That's right. So, you know, listen, literally her, her, her, her, her, Sally was having sex with one of

the guards, you know, and she said, look, not that the guards weren't trying you, but she's like, they make it seem like they're being cornered and the doors are locked and three guards come in. She's, that's not what it is at all. It's like, the guards are flirting with them. They're like, Like, you know, they would get them into a room or not, not trap them in a room, be like, hey, come in the office. They closed the door. And, you know, they'd make out and they'd have sex. And, you know, and then the guard would bring stuff for them. Bring them in this.

Bring them in that. Hey, can I bring in some food? Unacceptable, unprofessional behavior. Absolutely. But. Yeah. But what I'm saying, I mean, from the guards perspective, obviously. But then the guards get charged with rape.

Like, oh, my God. Like, you're charging. Like, like, I get it. I understand. It's inappropriate. But they, they, when you hear rape. Oh, rape, you think of Bundy and these other psychopaths. Of course.

So to me, it's like, come up with a lesser charge. Well, to be honest with you, most of these guys just got dismissed. Yeah, fire. Yeah, they should be. They were dismissed. There was a huge lawsuit. The inmates got paid. But it was in there, you know, they specifically, one woman got together and got several of the girls that had had sex with the guards.

And then several other girls that my wife said. says, she's, I don't, I don't think that they slept with any of the COs. Like, I think they just jumped on the bandwagon. But it was such a publicity issue for the BOP. They just immediately came in and settled. Because, let's face it, the girls that can prove they had sex with them, there's text messages, they're bringing stuff in. They have samples of, you know, blood samples.

DNA. DNA. You can prove this. I can prove that. And it's like, okay, well, there's no way you could have gotten that DNA unless And then some of the COs immediately once they're cornered, they admit it. Yes, this is what happened. Yes, I also know this person did this.

So they're giving each other up. Because if you lie and they prove it, then you get more charges. Now you're lying to a federal officer. Yeah. Now you've got more stuff coming out your way. So anyway, what happened is they ultimately, they let these guys go and they paid out a huge fine. I think that's a huge problem throughout the country in the world. Yeah, and not just men and women.

I think you see also men on men too. Well, you get these, well, listen, I had, I had a, I knew a guy in there. Oh, my God, this is horrible. There was a CEO that had been moved around, literally, I don't know how long he'd been with the BOP, but he'd been moved around multiple times. And my buddy in there, his name, I'll give him. His first name was Frank. Frank was an older guy. The CEO was an older guy, probably late 50s, early 60s. My buddy's an older guy, early 60s. He's walking by one day. And the CEO, who'd only been there, you know, a week or two, says to him, tells him to come into the office. If walks in the office, he goes, close the door. And he's like, you don't walk in and close the door. Like, what do you do? He's like, okay. So he closes the door. It's a low.

you know so he's sitting there and the guy says uh he goes how long you've been here he tells him you've been locked up about whatever it was six years seven years oh yeah he said you look like you work out you work out he goes yeah yeah i used to work out a lot not so much anymore i walked a track he said so he so he sparks up like a conversation and he says out of nowhere the CEO says to him um you know if you have sex with another man and you're you're locked up it doesn't make you gay and my buddy goes yeah it does yeah it does and he goes yeah it does and he goes listen man he said i i feel uncomfortable about this conversation he's what i'm going to go and he leaves when he immediately comes and he tells me and a guy named donovan uh that i was friends with he comes

outside he's like listen to what just happened yeah and he tells us we're dying laughing and of course you know listen most of our time was in there was spent just just giving each other a hard time and i said i go listen frank you got a lot of time yeah yeah let's make you and i mean you might want to think now my buddy russini is there right he does legal work and i said you might want to think about i said listen this may be an opportunity for a downward to get like a rule 35 for you yeah it might be an opportunity for you you've got a lot of time you got nothing coming And he goes, and he's like, fuck you. And then I said, and Donovan jumps in and he goes, think about it, Frank.

He says, at least give him a reach around. And so, Rucidi says, The new Bimo, V.I. Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then some.

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But, yeah, I definitely can see them trying people. Oh, my God. Yeah. I think what I'm reading, what my experience is what the state systems even worse this is the the state prisons are a complete zone even lower yes it is everything and that's where you you saw the corruption i want to say it was in baltimore and uh because this is my book and it's it's been a while but it was like it was run like a criminal enterprise that the way they had everything structured with the females with the drugs coming in

with everything it's just unacceptable and this is what you get when you can't get of people we'll go back to a point you have to have accountability and the government that action what he did when i'm talking about a little supervisor it should be accountability when you have people that are incompetent unfit making bad decisions or trying to hurt you you have to have accountability because i'm risking my life right i'm meeting with these bad guys making arrests and then you come back and you have to deal with an asshole supervisor or a shitty prosecutor some and actually some of them are either bad or they got their own agendas you know you get activist judges but you got activist prosecutors. And the same thing applies everywhere. So a lot of people have no idea how difficult

to be a successful. But I'm a motivated person. I'm a type of guy that sees a glass half full no matter what, right? But there people get broken easy. And they're just disgruntled. They're the kind of people that just are broken, disgruntled, and then just, you know, I just want to get along, get it done. I said, no, I'm here and do the job. I came here because I had a passion. I want to do these cases. I want to put the worst in the worst in prison. So I have to get motivated. and then, of course, get my own personal life. So I'm dealing with personal stuff, right? I'm having the cases.

And you have that person that has to, you know, when it's about work, I got to focus here when I'm here because if not, things just don't get done. And that's one thing. I get people a message. You're going to have issues in life. You're going to have problems. You've got to adapt and overcome and do things. That's one of the messages in the book.

And I also talk about, I think, solutions to some of the violent crime we have, right? I know you didn't get to the backside there. But I deal with, you know, solutions. how to deal with mass shootings solutions how to deal with repeat violent offenders right firearms trafficking and some of the things is some of our gun laws i mean i did a lot of farming trafficking cases you talked about that right how much time a lot of these guys get for farms trafficking yeah three years one guy got 36 months the bad asses you know repeat violent offenders get a lot of time right but if you have no history and you're running a lot of guns

you don't get much time which is a problem we need guys to get at least 10 years for massive trafficking. I had that case, I don't know if you remember, about the dirty FFL, the federal firearms licensee, how I worked up, right? And he ends up getting two years after putting tons of guns on the streets. He violates a public trust. He's having a guy that was in Venezuela, was there one of the guys was in somewhere Latin America, Venezuela? Puerto Rico. Yeah, was it Puerto Rico? Yeah. 30 FedEx employee. No, this was a guy. He ended up getting like 30, I remember he got 36 months, I think you said. Was it Escobar?

His last name was Escobar? Oh, out of Ecuador. Right. And he said, you know, tried to say, oh, I was just selling them to friends. Yeah. Yeah. You're a smuggler. You lied about it.

But it was a gun. You can't have those guns there. And you can't say there are a bunch of aficionados who are having fun on the weekends hunting. Because they weren't. There were a lot of handguns in there. And they were recovered in a house. This case started full of gang members in Guayaquim. in Ecuador so that's how we got to leave you traced it back and he was trafficking guns since

his days in college in the 90s at LSU and you got what he got like three years three years and that's significant not a time you don't see that kind you see guys they had no criminal history so that those are the issues I talk about were virus trafficking it has to be taking more seriously and that's something where because these guns going bad people not just international trafficking which that was a major international case you have domestic trafficking And you have local trafficking. And local trafficking is one of these guys getting the guns. These are bad gang members. This is how they get their guns in the black market. And it's very easy. We have people who are doing. And I did a lot of cases where I'm dealing with felons who sell shop in these flea markets or these gun shows, right? Private sales, right? There's no cash and carry. Or you go online on the internet and you meet people. Felons being felons at the parking lot of wherever. And they're buying guns. we've got some big problems to deal with with that because you can pass all the gun launch you want and put all the gun control in place which doesn't work in my opinion but there's so many loopholes

people find a way around it bad guys always do bad things right and we're the ones to get victimized to good people um i was going to say listen to this uh and tell me if this made sense i mean you know when he said it i never questioned it it seems like wow that seems like a reach well it's not a reach it's uh i knew a guy that was a felon went to did i tell you this last time he went to one of those gun shows with his girlfriend his girlfriend buys the gun yeah comes back um but it was he was in his they were in his vehicle the ATF he said had gone through and gotten the tag numbers of people at the gun show and run them they saw that i was a convicted felon so he said like two weeks later or something like that they pulled him over and he had the gun that his girlfriend had got

and he ended up getting a constructive possession charge and I think he got like three years or five years or something like that but but he had he had a history no no he he he he went one he's a felon and two he had been arrested already before for drugs sure so you have a history any more time people who are like let's say straw purchasers let me give this example you know people who don't know what a straw is that's somebody has no criminal history that goes into an ffl a federal Farms Licensee, buy some guns, says this gun is for me, right? He's an actual purchaser, and they end up giving the guns to a felon or something, right? Those people with no history, a lot of times just get a slap on the risk and get probation.

Well, if you bought a, if I bought a couple of guns, not me, but if somebody with no history bought a couple of guns for you years, two years, yeah, for me and had them for three or four years and then went and sold them, he's not breaking the law. the problem is when they go in and they buy the gun knowing they're going to sell it to this guy like i'm buying it for 500 bucks and i'm going to sell it for 1500 to this guy over here they can't do that right but if you're telling your own gun no yeah if you're like say collectors collect right traffickers sell right i'm a collector i keep my guns because i i need my firearms i want my weapons, right? And if you want to sell firearms, get your license, do it the right way. You have to get background checks and a lot of stuff. Like, listen, I've been retired from ATF close to two years now, right? I've done the gamut with ATF investigations from undercover case agent. I've done all

kind of the case. And they went to headquarters. I promoted and spent two years in headquarters and I saw behind the scenes how things worked, right? At the top of it, I became very good friends with the number one command in the central region. And because we worked together on the most sensitive projects, sensitive cases. That's because what happened to Fast and Furious. Operation Fasten Furious, it hadn't monitored more of these cases. So this wouldn't happen again. So guns wouldn't walk the technique walking to Mexico and the cartels.

Stuff, things like that. So something's risky, sensitive. Hey, we've got to put an end to this and see what's going on here because we don't want a public safety issue and stuff like that. So I saw a lot firsthand what was behind the scene, but I'm not happy with the Biden administration. This has changed. And in my opinion, this is my opinion. I'm going to say this, that's kind of weaponized ATF with the bumpstocks and with the pistol brace, right? Right.

They were legal for years. I know, I know guys who bought them, right? They said they were no issues to attach it. Obviously, you're not, and people don't know what a pistol brace is. You put in a handgun, and you're not supposed to shoot from the shoulder. It's supposed to help you shoot better. It's supposed to help you brace better. You're not supposed to put it on your shoulder because then it becomes an SBR.

But people violate it, and I guess the Biden administration thought, like the bumpstock. you know it's supposed to make you shoot faster it's almost automatic makes you pull faster right but steve paddock used it in the worst mass shooting u.s history in Las Vegas right the sniper there on the strip in the concert and he set up like with two sweets a rich guy who went crazy but he used it and all of a sudden he said oh we got a ban no it's what's between the ears right it's just an object why are you punishing everybody else so it becomes illegal now this is illegal, right? Now with a pistol brace, if you still have it,

now you are in violation. Are you going to start arresting people because now they have an NFA because it's supposed to be a short barrel rifle or a short barrel shotgun. If you put on your shotgun now, even though it was legal for years to do that, so now you spent $300, you're supposed to dispose of it. You're supposed to take it. Far away to $300.

Throw away or $300. Now because, or try to get it registered, good luck to you because a lot of these chiefs are not approving it because you've got to get approved by the local authority in your area. Well, good luck with that. So, and at top of that, now sometimes it's a waiver. Sometimes say they don't.

It may pay another $200 to get registered, SOT, special occupational tax. Come on, man. I'm a retired ATF agent. I don't think that's right. And I think that was Biden's administration using ATF to do that. And that's my opinion. Obviously, the director now, Steve Dilbach doesn't believe that. But he's an attorney.

He was never an agent. Right. He was appointed. I mean, that's, that's a politics. I give a little at-tip politics there. I don't think it's right what happened there. Well, I definitely don't think it's right that you're telling me that one, I paid for something that when I bought it, it was legal. It was $300.

Now you're saying I'm going to get in trouble. Yeah, just throw it away. I'm throwing away $300. No, now if you have a buyback program, you're going to give me my $300 back. They don't. Yeah, that's, that's, and that's just fucking. Either you trash it, you make it inoperable. Or you have to go to the ATF office and turn it over.

And so this is my point. Are we now going to make these people felons? Is that right now? Because they have an unregistered short-bill shotgun or rifle, an SBR and SPS? I don't think so. This is my opinion. As a retired agent, I can say this now. Now, if I was still an agent, I probably wouldn't be able to say this.

I have to be honest with you. Because I'll be considered like a whistleblower, right? even though I have said things before and what happens to whistleblowers they don't do so well they get to end up being messed with just like happened when I brought up the problems with the other idiot remember with the H2

and all the other stuff he was doing I get transferred Miami I was very happy in Tampa I was working big cases mine's a tougher city and I did find there but that's not where I wanted to be I was going to say did you ever see there was a TikTok video where an agent

I think it was an ATF agent comes yeah it was an ATF agent It comes to this guy's door. He's got some registered weapons. What? I've seen it. Yeah, where the guy goes, oh, hold on a second. And calls the police and says, the guy here, he says he says he wants to see my guns.

From Columbus. You took the guy that gets arrested? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, that was, to me, one, well, first of all. Yeah, Tase, too. Yeah, but here's the thing. What killed me is this.

All, you know, all he had to do. was comply. Yeah, show the identification. Show the identification, comply. Let them put some handcuffs on. You know what you feel? Huh? Man, that's happened to me. Oh, let me hear. What happened? And Brooksville. And the same thing, but the FFL didn't like the interview. So I'm always playing close. You know, we don't have a uniform. I'm always playing closed. The FL what? FFL didn't like the interview. What does that mean FFL? Federal Farmer's licensee. Oh, okay.

The gun shop owner. All right. Yeah. So, and we do a lot of them. And a lot of time we're playing. And some of them really are nasty. You know, just like the one guy we talked about, I got two years, how dirty was. Some of them are, some of good ones, and there's some bad ones in there.

And I show my identification. He's a liar. He says that some guy claimed to be an ATF agent, Cole's the sheriff's office, just interview me. He's outside of the parking lot. So they come up and they say, hey, I need to you identification, done that on the whole thing. I heard you came in here and said, no, I did show it. He said, my back pocket was, let me keep your hands up.

I said, okay, my hands are right here. And it says, where is your identification? So one of the officers, which behind and pulls it out of my back pocket. Now, I don't want to be an ass and be stupid, so I'm going to comply. So they looked at it, they verified it, and explained the whole situation. I saw his situation. He said, okay, keep your hands up. Let me see your identity.

We'll see. So, yeah, you feel like you're being disrespected. The ladies try and play a system. But at the same time, you're going to be outgunned. here. You're going to be outplayed here because they're more than, and you're going to get, uh, tased and put down and, and like he got, he got handcuffed thrown in the back of the mark unit. I mean, my head, he bumped his head on the whole nine yards. You know, look, here's what bothers me is that like to me the cop showing up saying, let, you know, hey, you know, get out of

the car. Let me see your, you're, I don't feel like that's being disrespected. I mean, to me, it's like, to me, I don't know why they're here. They don't really know what's going on. They're asking to see my I did. That's what I did. Absolutely. I can play. Yeah, exactly. The problem was that guy. He immediately, you can just tell he's a dickhead. You know, hey, don't, I'm a federal agent. Hey, look, I'm sure you're a real badass, bro. But for right now, put your fucking hands up. Yeah. Let me see your, you know what I'm saying? Like, you do what I tell you to do right now. You don't know what the situation is. So mouthing off, what happens? He ends up escalating his head. Suddenly he starts talking about a heart condition and everything. It's like, like I can't I can't breathe remember I can't breathe yeah stop it bro like nobody like nobody cares about some guy who works at Walmart who's getting arrested if he's got a a heart condition or he can't breathe or you know no no we're cuffing you're putting in the back of the car you had a chance I always love the people that the TikToks where the guys don't want to show their driver's license or something oh I don't need a driver's license to drive yes you do it's not going to go good

Like, I don't know which one of your idiot friends told you that was a thing, but it's not. No. Anytime they start disrespecting law enforcement and escalate, it's, you're going to lose. Yeah. Have you ever seen on the videos on the airplanes when people start getting confrontational with the stewardess and they get out of control? And then they start yelling at the pilot, that's not going to go good for you. No, this is not going to end well. No, no.

I mean, there's so many Karen's and Kevin's out there. Have you ever seen all those Karen videos? yeah I love the cops show up and they're just like what are you doing yeah he can do that or you know oh he's videoing he's videoing in the street he's allowed to video in the street yeah or they go on these crazy rants for whatever reason and they think they're entitled and they can do and yell and do all these things if you haven't seen those videos folks take a look at them typing watching a Karen out of control yeah they're nuts they're absolutely nuts nuts and you can see a lot of them on the airplanes too that's Because they will turn the plane around, which I've seen the videos. They're going to land. It gets just waiting for you. The locals are. Yeah.

And it's going to get ugly. And you see the videos, it gets ugly. Listen, I saw one the other day where the woman was escorted off the plane. But, you know, the pilot basically came out and said, look, you got to go. But people are videoing. And she gets upset. They didn't call the police. She just walks off the plane yelling and cussing and screaming.

And as she walks off, she screams, I hope you guys crash at burn. and die and right then the pilot went oh hell no and he went after her i have no doubt that she got she got arrested you know or the police came and questioned her like don't get cute don't start talking about bombs and terrorists and blowing up and dying angry they get they out of control i don't know how people don't know how to be measured but a lot of it i go back to mental health issues because a lot of people are off their meds and you see it over and over again to get on these planes and they don't handle orders. They don't handle

your rules. You're going to you're going to plane. There are lots of rules and you think you can't tell me what to do and you touched me and I'm going to let you have it. You can't touch me. You can't touch me. I'm a law enforcement officer. I'm putting can't handcuffs on you. I'm going to touch you. You're done. They're done. And the stewardess

can even take control of you if you're a danger to the plane. They wrap people. I've used to the picture. They get wrapped up and everything. They wrap them up. They wrap them up. I mean, okay. I have a question. Have you ever met any sovereign citizens?

I've heard of them. I don't think I met one personally. Unless maybe they were, they didn't tell me. Oh, listen, the jails are full of them. Like, prisons full of them. Like, there's not full of them, but there's probably, I've met 30 of them. I actually have done an interview with this one guy who's a sovereign citizen. And I mean, they are so convincing.

Like, obviously, I know he's insane. but they are so 100% I love people that talk so convincing and they're crazy confident about well no about what they believe but you know it's insanity like they're telling you like that the earth is flat or something and they have all these reasons why it's flat

and you're sitting there looking at them like right and the whole time I'm looking at him thinking right right he's thinking he's convincing me and I'm thinking what went wrong chemically in your mind that has you believing that you don't have to pay income tax that law enforcement has no authority no authority over you that you know like there's all these things in it and money doesn't exist um you know like he'll go on and on like right right and what's so funny about those guys

is that um like i've never once ever in over a decade dealing with these guys have ever seen a successful sovereign citizen. There are always some guy staying in somebody's spare room who can barely pay their bills who are, you know, they think they've got it all figured out

and yet you are the most one of the, you're this close to being on the street. Yeah. You know, and they never, you never meet some guy living in a $2 million house as a sovereign citizen.

Like that didn't. And if he does, it's because he's committing tax fraud and he's about to go to prison and be indicted and go to prison. Yeah, well, that's pretty much what's been out of control after Waco with Timothy McVeigh, right? Maybe he was the ultimate sovereign citizen. And I wrote a book about McVeigh and the face of domestic, U.S. domestic

turn. And in a sense, they're one step away being McVeigh, some of these sovereign citizens, right? Because they're anarchists. Yeah, well, kind of, yeah. They're not anarchists as much as they just think that nobody, that the United States laws don't apply to them, which doesn't mean that they want anarchy as much as it's them saying no no I'm my own person I'm in charge of myself your laws don't apply to me which is insanity yeah that's insanity you know that's that's like and I wrote the book about McVeigh and what's been out of Waco I mean you think about you know we talked a little bit of Jim Jones last time right right we talked about the Colts it and in the French Divideans are a smaller version of the people's temple right instead of 900 something

dying it was 70 something dying there and the firing ending there but and events there i'll talk about a little bit of macbay people who don't know timothy macbay is macbay was he's a decorated u.s war veteran yeah persian golf war very if he would have been killed in the persian golf war to liberate kuwait from saddam hussein he would have been a hero a patriot right but five years later from 1990 he becomes the worst domestic terrorist in u.s history and and it's fascinating to see his transformation i mean from he had issues of I was reading, I do a lot of research, and I read all the stories and everything else.

He was kind of when growing up, become a loner. He was kind of an introvert, right? His grandfather taught him a lot about firearms, so he became big firearms enthusiast. He became really into firearms. Great. That's why he joined the Army. He became decorating all that. But he also got involved with some anti-government white nationals.

And his co-conspirators that he uses there, Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier, were also from the Army. All these guys who committed this act were Army veterans who come in, and get together and commit this act against other Americans in the name of a tyrannical regime? Didn't he they catch him? Didn't he also have a copy of the Turner Diaries? He was also pumping that crap. He gets brainwashed with that garbage

because he starts, before he does all this stuff, before Waco, he does a tour on the gun show. I met a lot of people in the gunshel circuit. They're good people, there's some bad ones. And he said the farther west he went, because reading when he was, he said, the crazier or the more extremist, were the more anti-government they were and and those who don't know what the turner

diaries are it's it's about this uh anti-government group white nationalist group that bombs use a truck bomb to hit fbi headquarters and take it up take it out well he copies it instead of fbi headquarters he goes after he doesn't like ATF he goes after ATF in other federal agencies in Oklahoma but he parks it and I'll get there he parks in front of daycare right and he later calls it collateral damage in his revolution he killed me of the little in the babies and all that I don't want to get 20 or 30 of them something like that horrible stuff man hard the federal agency the office was was empty that day ATF yeah ATF agents come in later because we work later all hours right we're not nine to five guys we're guys that work late so but he killed a lot of agents so I think I remember it's in my book the numbers I put in there I think IRS and DA and other ones but he was anti-government he originally won instead of he he he thought and what he said later was that he got his most banged for his buck with a truck bomb because he also wanted to assassinate agents he also wanted to assassinate judges he also wanted to kill politicians so he

really went he snapped he went okay so then why is he driving around with a in a vehicle with no tag on it yeah like then his own ideas guys planned things but at the end he had fought there was Oklahoma State Prooper that pulled them over with no tag at the end like what an Like all of the things that he did and put together. Like, I mean, remove, you know, remove the morality of the entire situation. The fact is, the planning was, it was well planned. And then you have no escape strategy. Like, you have no, like, it just completely, like, listen, to me, it's like robbing a bank.

Like, you could plan all the things. But if you can't figure out how to get out of that bank and get away scot-free, all that planar doesn't mean anybody. You could have gone in with a note. You know, like, it's, so the idea that he planned that whole thing and then gets caught on such a stupid, you know, little technicality or a little glitch. He gets pulled over by the trooper. He gets arrested enough for that. He gets arrested because he had a concealed weapon.

He had a 45 Glock in his waistband. He had it in case the second fuse wouldn't go. He was going to activate himself. He was going to shoot it. And he said he was going to die in the truck with it. But he was going to have an explosion no matter what. He was going to initiate the charges of himself. of the second fuse.

He parked that car there two days earlier, but he had a car there, like he said, these guys were poor. They stole a lot to make this happen. I mean, it's unbelievable the stuff he had to pull off to get this done. It took him like a year and a half to get it going. Did you see the interview on him

where he talks about where they said, what was the first thing you thought of when you looked over and he said, I was disappointed because I really thought I was going to bring the whole building down. Yeah, he's sick. It was his first thought was Didn't have enough I didn't have enough info

Ammonium Nitro Fertilizer and he had over 5,000 pounds Over 5,000 The building almost completely down The chunk out of that thing was the that explosion must have been Yeah It was 30 foot wide

Crater 8 foot deep That's impressive That's impressive And he took him down And of course He would become the first federal prisoner executed in 38 years. President Bush signed off it in June 11, 2001, and became before 9-11. And obviously, he was okay with it, though, too. He didn't fight it.

And at the end, he didn't care. Do you want to live like that anymore? Terry Nichol, I thought the co-conspirator helped him get the other explosives who knew about this. He should have been executed also. He went to a state trial in Oklahoma, convicted of 168 counts of murder, but the jury was deadlocked on the death penalty. how did he get caught uh i guess with uh all the evidence they had and putting the case together the van didn't he rent the van he he was part i know he was part with the rental he's part of the conspiracy with explosives and he had other stuff also different storages and locations uh and so they put the case together with him so he went down uh michael fortier also helped his wife also

helped mcvay put fake IDs but she was given immunity And he is now in witness protection program. He was out already, Michael 40, so he's out and about witness protection. So we have him. But he testified against both these guys. So those are interesting things about extremism, how it happens, what triggered him. I mean, what triggered McVeigh at the end? He was at Waco, and he was there during the siege, the 51-day siege.

People who know what Waco is. They interviewed him. Yeah, they interviewed him. Yeah. He was selling bumper stickers. You can't make this stuff up. That's why I love nonfiction. I know.

It's funny because like I'll, when I talk to these guys and research stuff, I mean, I am constantly telling myself that, I mean, I know it's a cliche, you know, that truth is stranger than fiction.

But I mean, there's stuff that I'm just like, I never could have come up with this. Yeah. If I to just imagine it, like some of the things that people say and things that happened, it's like,

this is insane. Isn't it bone chilling to watch him be interviewed there at Waco where you know what he's going to do two years later on the anniversary of Oklahoma? We just had the anniversary, a 30-year anniversary of Waco and the 20-year anniversary of Oklahoma. That's the reason what inspired me on write all the stuff and get involved in. He thought, man, we have four agents that were killed at, you know, and like I said, like with Jim Jones, with Koresh, they cooperated. We talked about the agent. Why didn't he cooperate? Well, if you cooperate with the investigation, you get your time in court.

your time in court is not to open up on the agents when they come in the search warrant and say and people don't know this they were tipped off about agents coming in because a local reporter got information and he went to a letter carrier and said hey where is this Mount Caramel with the rims on

he got lost I heard ATF is going to hit a search warrant I'm covering it have they hit it ready well that was his brother-in-law and he tells him what's going on hey I just as a reporter ATF's coming so rather than being sleeping and not prepared for it, they're all prepared

and armed. And it's an all-out war. And four agents are murdered because of it. So those events later triggered. And then if Koresh really wanted to let those kids out, he showed let the kids out. Because the listening device the FBI had over there and when they're coming, after 51 days

they had enough of this. They want to get the kids out. They heard him saying, hey, they're coming. Let's set the fire on. It wasn't the FBI, the feds that set the fire. He did. He started the fire. And that's That's out there also. So this event that said the government did this.

Why not cooperate? You're the ones that triggered all this problems. You know what I'm saying? We have a legal search warrant. You're illegally having firearms here. He also was having sex with minors. He was doing other things, right? You know, he had some weird rules there where, you know, if you came as a couple,

he was the only one that could have sex with your wife. Yeah. He did unbelievable stuff, right? All these cult leaders, once they get a little bit of power, you know, they all get weird. in almost immediately they get power you know power well you know absolute power corrupts you know absolutely and then even if these guys initially maybe they had aspirations of coming up with some kind of a church or something maybe they had you know

good aspirations very quickly it tends to go right the moment they get absolute power they immediately get nuts yeah i think we talked a little about jim jones before people's temple but if jim jones in the 50s let's say 60s before he got really out of control Because he was a civil rights leader in some sense, integrating the churches, integrating a lot of different things. He was the first, him and his wife were the first couple to adapt a black child in Indiana. I mean, they did a lot of things. He would die in a car accident. He probably been a civil rights hero, right?

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Conditions apply. And say it becomes a monster in 1978 for what happens in Jonestown. So people snap, people change. David Koresh was a good guy, I think at the beginning, and then he changed. And I think he became this monster like you see these guys. he should let those children go there's no need to set the fires there's no need to have done all that but at the end this is what goes on because his ego is and not of these guys they believe the followers are their property right and we're all going down with it this is my

world it's all mine so mother mother please remember that yeah yeah yeah mother please listen listening to that um listening to that tape of uh jim jones when everybody's being poisoned. Sickening. It is, it's, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, it is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is, you can hear the people crying and I, I, I, I, I, I, I don't know if I told you how I, what I felt. It's in my book about how I felt about Leo Ryan, the congressman going out there. How, how, how, how do you go out there not being armed, not having security force, not having the

government with you, did you think guy's ultra paranoid, you know he's, he has weapons because they're telling you what's going to. on, right? And how do they're not protected? So I thought about that. And I think, and I noticed this a lot of times, is that if you're, if you've been raised in a nonviolent environment and you've been surrounded by it, you somehow, and especially if you suddenly become, get to like a position of power yourself, you start thinking that you're somehow or another shielded from violence. Like you don't think anything bad's going to happen to you because you've never been a part of it. You've heard about it, but you've never seen it. And when he went out there, he's really just being told that we're not

being allowed to leave. So he may not be thinking that there, maybe he's not thinking that he's in danger. He's going to go out. He's going to see what happens. He's going to have a conversation. He's going to leave. He's probably not thinking that Jones is insane as insane as he clearly was. You probably didn't think there was that much risk. While I was reading is that he saw the affidavit. He read the report on the local paper out there in San Francisco. He knew these guys were doing these horrible things in these medical units, right? People who wanted to leave and cause problems, they were taking special treatment in the medical camps, the medical unit, and they're injected with a coma-inducing medication and forced to become sex slaves, right?

You're a problem. We're going to, we're going to use it. It's a Jones town? Yeah, Jonestown, yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that I haven't heard this. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. It's in the reports. is all in there. He knew that because he

had the, a lot of people, some people were able to escape and they gave sworn affidavits, right? I read the affidavits. They gave sworn affidavits what happened. He knows all this because he's even trying to figure out, he even tries to get Dan Quayle, who was a representative to come with him from Indiana. Because

quails from Indiana, listen this. He tried to get Quail go with him and others not that bullet. Yeah, he didn't, nobody wanted to go. No one wanted to go because they thought this guy was dangerous and crazy. So this is another issue. A lot of people already told them, this is dangerous. Be careful going down there.

And he thought he was safe because he took NBC news with him, the Washington Post. Hey, I'm taking, these were some of the biggest names in NBC at the time. Remember that. These are big names in NBC who are going out there. They're like the Brian Williams of their time, right? And he's going down there. Dude, he cleans house on everybody. No one gets out of that thing alive.

So the cameraman's last action, you saw the video, was filming them shooting his goong squad, shooting at them at the plane. that's his last thing he does out there but he he knew how how dangerous so in this medical tent medical unit he would put coma inducing medication enslave people put in hot boxes if if you were a problem make you so big you're guiana you're in the jungle you're in south africa you find boa constrictors tie you up and wrap it around your neck when i was reading to squeeze the life out i mean he was doing some really bad things to these people you he was an ultra communist he had become a marxist Leninist hardcore.

He even went to Visifido Castro in Cuba and Havana and talked about, because he is a mire of Castro. He was a mire of Stalin. He was a mire of Lenin. He even has Soviet officials come because he would creating a Soviet Marxist utopia is what he created there. And he was right. Everybody gets a little bowl of rice like Mao Zedong.

Here's your bowl of rice. But they ate well. His command staff ate well. They had meat, they had everything else. But the people had to put 12 hour days in on the land. And he used him as slaves. And these were disenfranchised people, mostly African blacks, that he brought from Northern California,

and they went from one hell to another, an inferno. They'll cost them everything, and their children. I see, I just thought that there were families that were saying that their family members weren't communicating with them. They were in Guyana, they were being, and they felt they were being held against their will. maybe they got in the letter like that I didn't know that there was there was something escaped and wrote affidavits that he was aware he knew they had weapons he knew that they were doing mock drills to prepare for this mass suicide because he had a preparing mock drills he would have white night drills where he said the government's coming and he would have the guy shoot above their heads for the followers and they crowd on the floor to keep fear instilling them he knew what he was getting himself into I think that was a madman like that to approach him like that and then all of a sudden everybody wants to wants to leave he's not going to have that remember they all said i want to leave they'll start giving people notes you want to get out of here yeah that just and then the video the one guy tried to stab him remember that one one guy tries to stab him and then the reporter says we got to get

out of here this is get out of control and all of a sudden that's when they follow them to the tarmac there and the planes and they kill him and his if you haven't read the book you haven't seen their interview jackis spear does a great interview she survived she was an assistant she plays dead for 24 hours taking five rounds in and lays in a Carmack for 24 hours playing dead until the army of Guyana comes in and she's saved. They thought they had killed her and she placed dead. You haven't seen Jackie Spears interview. Listen to that and what she says.

She had later become the congresswoman in his district years later. Yeah, good stuff. All right. That's good. Yeah, I did not. Yeah, I did not. Hey, with me, you get true crime. on all dimensions with me and I can talk

all day. No way is you getting monetized. So I will let you know if it does. And we don't even do politics. We just did true crime. I can have more fun with politics, too, if you wanted. That's another time. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And you can see my poster behind me here, ATF undercover.

You liked it? Thumbs up? Yeah, that's the book. Yeah, yeah, I'm not done yet, but yeah, it was good. Good. Thank you. I appreciate that. yeah definitely um i'm trying to think we'll we'll put the description we'll put the the link is that the only one that's on audible i'm working with sean man he's a busy guy so you're getting the other ones on audible i'm trying to pull a lot of them on audible yeah it's a lot of work it's uh for him especially i i did uh the writing already but i'm always

cranking more out i would like to put psycho killers out there on all because i think people really it's scary and I think people need to know how dangerous serial killers are everywhere I think people don't understand how prolific they are I heard the other day that the average person comes in or crosses the path of something like was it like three to six three or it was like three or six psychopaths a day that they actually come into contact with

and don't even know it don't even know it I don't know if that number is correct I don't know how you figure that number out but but there's many of those are Jacqueline Hyde, that's for sure. They can have a normal life, and a night they transform themselves into the social path, psychopath, psychopath, which they have no consideration for life. They don't care. They don't care about life, existence. And what's sad is a lot of them prey on young children, and that's heartbreaking.

That really is, because they never had a life, and they die a horrible ways, which is, and that's why people have to be stranger danger, be aware of your environment, and don't trust anybody you don't really know. I mean, Bundy was really good at this. Remember, I don't know, you saw the documentary in Bundy. Yeah, he was super charming. No, everybody said he was charming. Everybody said he was charming.

How about he has the crutches, right? He always has the books. And he has the young ladies, hey, can you please help me to the car? And second they help him in the car, boom, gets thumped in the head. And he knew how to kill people quietly. And all these guys learned that quickly. He's not about shooting or making noise or stabbing where this could be yelling and screaming. You thump him in the head and then they break their neck or they do whatever.

And that's it. quiet like a little like a chicken right quietly done and then he does bad things later and those are more things that they they would do if you're interested in that look into it you see my book but i i can really describe more of the stuff that he does afterwards which is unbelievable i'm not gonna i'm not i'm not but i hear you i'm not but i hear you but if you like that kind of stuff read it you know how did you become an ATF was it something you were always interested in that sort of thing you know where were you born yeah yeah I was born in Los Angeles in California but raised in South Florida in Miami and you know I've always had some interests in law

enforcement obviously you know you grew up in the same times I was born in the 70s and I grew up when I was younger in the 80s with Miami Vice right and I'm in South Florida right How cool you've seen Don Johnson, you know, you're watching the cool cars, the Ferraris, right? You're thinking, man, that is pretty cool. So that always was, you know, always in the back of your head and you're looking at that, but never thought I would ever do that kind of work, really. I kind of thought it was cool, and I like the guns, I like the training, I like putting out of these bad guys, and the cocaine cabboys were huge back in the 80s.

Well, years later, you know, I go to college, I went actually up not far from where you're at, up to St. Leave University. It's a Catholic University, and I get my degree in political science and history. Then I come back to FIU in Miami. So now we're looking about the mid-90s, and I'm working my degree in international relations. And I was doing to a law school. I accepted to a law school in Lansing, Michigan, Thomas Cooley. And, you know, the farthest thing in my head, but I'm seeing the prices how expensive law school is. And this is mid-90s. A lot more now, obviously. But even in the mid-90s. And I didn't have a, I had a scholarship in college. I played tennis, a number one for my school, but it was going to cost me about like about 30,000 a year, right?

30,000 a year, three years at least. You have housing. You got to get your loans for all that stuff. And I'm thinking, and I know how competitive is law school. And some people are saying, man, that's a lot of money. But I already have my degree, very athletic. I was going to shooting. My dad taught me how to shoot early in life. We'll go to the range. My dad was a gun. So I'm copying with a firearm, right? I'm athletic, and I'm thinking, wow, and I noticed internet just started, right? This is 1995. Windows came out, and I didn't use it in college, but I said, man, this is the future, right?

So I got myself a computer, and I taught myself, because this is, people who said, what are you doing? What's emailing? What do you do? I got myself a Yahoo account, people are prodigy, right? People had no idea what the stuff, dial up, what are you doing? And it's like, well, this is the future. And people are like, no, I don't think this is going to last. I think, no, I think this is going to be.

Listen, I was one of those guys. I was like, this is going to catch on. This is, people are not going to spend their time online? What? What are you talking about? And I was like, oh, no, I think it will. Especially when I saw everybody pumping, especially you get government jobs. That's why I went on there because USA jobs was available to look at what's opening.

And I was interested in going with customs. So I applied for customs, right? They were looking for Spanish speakers, which I grew up Miami. My parents are Spanish-Cuban. They came, grandparents from Spain, went to Cuba, and after the Castro Revolution, they came to the United States. And they lost everything. And they have my family that started over again. And I'm fortunate enough to be in this great country and done quite well within one generation.

The wealth they lost in Cuba, I've done quite well in this country. And it's a very fortunate, great nation that we live in. And I talk about them in my books also. So I work on that and I put in there. And so they need people, because in Miami, in Miami International Airport, Most of the flights, 85% of them come from Latin America, right? So they want the customs officials to be able to engage and speak Spanish because it's easier to cast people who are mules or smuggling drugs.

You have to know what you're dealing with. And I grew up Miami, so I grew up with all the different cultures from South America, from Latin America, from Mexico, a lot of my friends. So I knew all that, and I spoke Spanish. So I put in for the jobs, right? And I got it pretty quickly with customs. So that was something where I was going to Los Angeles and then I said, This is better because now I'm making quite a good money.

I'm going to have a good pension, right? I'm in law enforcement and I really enjoy. It is satisfying what the kind of work I'm going to start doing. So you start there at the airport, you get your cut your teeth into like password processing, and then I make one of their elite teams with customs called a contraband enforcement team. And at the time of the 90s, in Miami, South Florida is making some of the biggest seizures in the country, right? You know, you still have the Cali cartel, you still have the Medellin cartel. and they're still pumping a lot of drugs.

And I don't like what the Mexicans are I do when they take over. They're doing it the schoolway with cargo. They're doing with ships. They're doing with the Florida and the Caribbean. And that's how they're getting it through to, especially in Florida. So it wasn't uncommon, you know, after you on the job. You know, I was saying, or you're saying back then that's how they're doing it or you're saying that's how they're doing it now.

No, no, back then, back then. The Medellian and Cali, all those guys have collapsed. And now the Mexicans, and I've written books about how, strong they've got. And they're almost more powerful than the Columbus ever wore. You know, you talk about El Chapo, El Menthal's, and I'll go into that also how strong they've become and how they've changed the game completely and how we have to change, you know, and I've written about that, too, my experiences. So I get in there, and so, you know, I'm now in the middle of the drug war, you know, I'm the front line, you know, with customs. So what do you do,

I mean, what does that, what does that detail consist of? Yeah. So, my, has a ton of cargo that comes in through Latin America, right? And also passengers, a lot of it coming in. And my job, and the border, you know, border authority is everything that comes to international is subject to search, right? I don't need probable cause like I would later when I became an agent, which is a complete different game. So it was a lot easier to make seizures and make arrests because when you come in, you

have your questions, people come to be searched and you figure out what's going on right there. And with cargo side, it's everything comes in. And especially from Latin America, transitive country, it wasn't uncommon for me to see, we're going to seize 850 pounds of cocaine that was coming in a group of fish that was coming from Guayaquil, Colombian drugs, going to Colombia, and be going to Ecuador, and then be shipped because within five, six hours, it's in Miami. And the corruption was really bad in South Florida, right, at the airport.

You had the rap workers were dirty. You had the longshoremen were dirty. You had a ton of corruption. The money's overwhelming. And that stuff was never going to go where it's supposed to go. go. It gets ripped off, right? It has the bill lading, right, where it's supposed to go. But those stuff never go. When you got that kind of fish, when you look inside this major grouper, you get a kilo coke next to a block of ice. That stuff was going to get taken out. And that was

not uncommon to see 600, 800 pounds coming in and get ripped up. And that's what we got. So what does that tell you, the stuff that got in? Yeah, what's not getting caught? A lot. A lot. And they knew that was the quickest way to get it in because the demand back in the 80s and 90s, and still today, unfortunately, is enormous for cocaine. I always said the way to stop the cartels, if people stop using the stuff, right? If people got the treatment, the cartels are the drug gig, right? It's over. That's it. Yeah. We win the war on drugs. The way we win the war on drugs, and what you already to know, is from within, from within. But a lot of these bad countries are weaponizing cocaine,

especially the Nicholas Madurals from Venezuela, right? You've got the country who are really enemies or communist enemies, and they're selling cocaine because they know that does damage to our country, the workforce, the people, their future, and everything else. Cuba, was it? Castro said it was the, he said the pink menace, or he said that was the best way to undermine the United States was through the importation of drugs? Yeah, Hugo Chavez, for Venezuela. He used to do that.

Oh, he died. Yeah, for Venezuela. Cuba saw, but Castro did not want to be coal, a trafficker. Right, because he saw what happened to Noriega, right? Back in the late 80s, Mount Noriega, when he got involved in the U.S. end up invading and bring him over. The former president of Honduras, Hernandez, he was a big-time drug trafficker.

He just got extradited to the United States. Maduro has been indicted. So I thought I had read something about Cuba. Like Castro wasn't, like, involved in it, but he was allowing for short, for a period of time, he allowed planes to land or fly through. fly through air airspace and then he caught up with him and then he was like okay we're done with that yeah yeah he didn't want to get caught up with that but he would tolerate some things but not

on the island I said because he didn't want give the United States a chance to bring him in because it happens to world leaders all over they get involved in the drug game it's a conspiracy against us in the United States and we've had the case all and we extraded these guys and bring him over and El Chapo is a perfect example of what happened to him when he finally got extradited and now he is in the Supermax in Florence, Colorado. And he was a very, very powerful guy, and not so much. So I'm kind of that, fascinating view, front line, right? I'm meeting a lot of people because we make a lot of seizures.

So I'm networking with the FBI. I'm networking with ATF, especially DEA, customs. At a time we're Department of Treasury, and after 9-11, everything changes, right? Everybody changes. ATF will end up going to justice. Customs will go to Department of Homeland Security. security. It wouldn't leave treasury. So a lot of things change. We're making a lot of good seizures. Once they were kind of strange were like people who would swallow, like the pellets.

Yeah. The swallowers. We would get a ton of that. I mean, it is really, I mean, we got a lot, but a lot also got through. And it's really sad because some of these people were peasants, right? They would get used or they say, if you don't do it, and these are the cartels, they go in these villages, right? And they pretty much forced these guys to do it, or they're You got hurt your family, kill the family. Some got paid. I mean, I found it, the guys who went, let's say, if you were from, you know, Miami or you were from Puerto Rico and you end up flying to, you know, collie or something like that, you stay there for three or four days. Like, why are you there?

What was your purpose of your trip, right? And the purpose of the trip was to swallow these pellets. And I got really good at it. I mean, you could easily have two or three pounds of cocaine in you or heroin. Everyone really start picking up in the 90s with the Colombians, right? And that's a lot of money, a lot of dope in there. But the problem with that is something if it leaks, it would be a plane. It's so pure, you're not going to survive.

So we get calls a lot of people are dead on arrival. They're on the planes. We've got to clear them up. It's not easy to pass either. So if you can't pass this stuff fast enough, even when we catch them, we would have to take them to the hospital of MIA and give them these laxatives, and it still takes a while to pass it. these cartel members

if you make it and you're in one of these hotels which happens all the time you can't pass the stuff fast enough they put a bull in your head they'll gut you and they'll take the stuff out so a lot of times

they were lucky that we caught them because it was not not good stuff for them and even then sometimes still need surgery stuff wouldn't come out I mean it's it's really it's risky it's sad

it's horrible see these people I mean this is something I'm seeing firsthand you know a guy who almost I say man this is the war on drugs this is how it looks like this is what's going on

it becomes normal natural you feel bad because you're being used right and they're much it's much sexier from from Don Johnson's point of view for the Don Johnson point of view

it's much sexier he's got the Ferrari you got the Ferrari which is cool he folds up remember he would fold up the suit do you remember the jacket oh yeah

yeah yeah the cool colors right yeah so far your version of it sucks. The version is work. Right. That, yeah.

Yeah. A lot of work. That's true. Is that glamorous? But you're satisfied, at least you're stopping that from going to somebody else that's going to maybe hurt their life, that part there. So you see a lot of that. Miami, it's just a ton of that.

They'll put it in the stems of flowers. I mean, talk about the detail of work, right? You'll howl them out and fill them all up. That's impossible. I mean, it's really hard unless we had intelligence or a great dog to really hit that because the x-rays are hard to reach. So they were crazy ways you could imagine to smuggle stuff in. They were howl out tiles, you know, for roofing.

I put a kilo in each one. I wrote a story about a guy that's what they did. They had the concrete. Yeah. Palettes and concrete tiles that they were. Yes. Both them in and came in with pallets. Yes.

That's a level of corruption because that's not really going to where it's supposed to go. That's going to get ripped off. And it's going to other places. So that's how corrupt it was, 80s and 90s. and beyond, and things have changed now. And I'll talk to a little bit about that. What happens? The collapse, you know, Escobar was killed, the collapse of the Midian-Cali cartels,

and then the Mexican cartels stepping up and working with the FARC, which is now changed, even they change now, and now they have a different name, and they're working with them. They bring the Coke to them, and Mexico takes care of all distribution. They handle from there on. They take it all. They don't have to worry about that. You just make it, we take care of it.

We go into Colombia, so the Mexicans pretty much are running Colombia. in Central America. They're not just in Mexico, they're all over the region. And then, of course, in top of that, you have the collapse with the communism and socialism that's taken over the region, which really paralyzes the whole country. That's why we really have to keep an eye on what's going on in there. So I made a lot of contacts, and I said, you know what, this is cool. I don't mind doing this kind of work, but I wouldn't mind.

So they dealt with a lot of agents, investigators, to take it to a next level, which is what you do as an agent. I mean, you're not stuck to, I'm not stuck to the airport now. As an agent, I get to go all over the country all over the world, right? Make my cases, but they're a problem cause and stuff like that. So I network a lot with FBI, ATF, DEA, and Customs. You know, it makes sense since I was ready with Customs, I would just go over as an agent, right? Since I worked a lot of these guys, but they didn't want to give up a lot of their inspectors because they know it's hard to fill those positions, so they didn't want hire.

So I had to go with other agencies and put in for them because it's not fair to me. I wanted to be an agent. I wanted to be an investigator. I want to do other things. So eventually ATF was the fastest one to pick me up. You know, within that time within the Department of Treasury,

I get picked up with him. And then a year later, at 2000, I get picked up as an ATF agent and more in Tampa, Florida. Nice. So I've, for clarity purposes,

so here's what, you know, because just this is what I understand. So, and I only understand this because I've written several stories. I wrote a story called American NARC

and and so it so you're saying like right as a custom agent like you find this you find the drugs and you're like okay then you're notifying somebody else because and then they're setting that trying to either follow that that you know the that that drug shipment and bust the guys is that it because it'll let me give you an example i had a what the story i wrote they had shipped in marijuana in these tiles and they allowed the shipment like they picked they delivered the shipment and these guys loaded it into their warehouse sat it there for like a week

and there was a tracking device inside the thing and so they start unpacking the whole thing and suddenly there's this black box with a little light on it and these wires and they're like oh shit they throw it they run you know but of course by that point they're pulling up and they dig is up

yeah they bust them like two days later they come and raid their house or something their houses and stuff But so at this point with customs, you're just saying, hey, here's what we found and they're doing the rest of that. You wanted to actually be the guy to go the next level. Right. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm just not clarifying what the next level is.

Yeah, because their customs inspectors, right? That's the term. I think it's changed now, but the term used to be customs inspectors, but you had arrest authority and you did everything else. And then there's the agents, the criminal investigators that go and you give them, hey, I just had this huge seizure right now with this fish, right? 850 pounds. All right. We can sometimes help set up surveillance

within the airport, right? Close to the airport, the warehouse. But if it's going, let's say, to New York City, right?

Well, they're taking it from there. Yeah. They're not going to New York City. I got to stay and do my job and do the next shift and get some more dope this coming in because you know what?

It doesn't stop. They knew if they, they factor those losses in because that's part doing business. Right. With the Colombian cartels, they just keep on bringing it in okay hey they got this one guess what we just got 4,000 in it and doesn't that it's it's drug so I wish to we picked up with a TAM but you

don't know right you take a chance sometimes they may say to southwest border sometimes you might have to go to New York City or a big city where it's really expensive I got fortunate enough I stayed in Florida I went school like said St. Louis University of just north of Tampa in where you're at Pascoe County and I started working from there and I was fortunate at the group I started a lot of guys worked undercover because you can't just go into undercover work cold like that right if you do that you're going to get her right I mean you can watch all the mommy advice you want and watch all the TV shows and Donnie Brasco and that was also very popular back in the in the 90s remember Donnie Brasco with Al Pacino and Johnny Depp

yeah you know you watch all this stuff but it's one thing on television right like you said and one thing the real world and the real world is you've got to know how they can be like I said

I grew up in Catholic schools right and now I have to learn this world I learned a little bit for the drug world which is fascinating

but now I got to work face to face under cover where I pretend to be like these guys and how to fool some of these guys who are hardened

professional criminals that's all they do and make them think I'm one of them because I'm nothing like it I was going to say which is you know

like you said you watch it on TV and people think oh I could do that No, you can't. They spot you in a second. I used to joke around, you know, with the guys in prison. Like, you know, they, we just be walking and they see me and they say,

Hey, Cox, what's up? And I go, I can't call it. And they just start laughing. They go, stop. I go, what do you talk? I did that good. They go, no, it's even worse when you do it. They're like, you're like, you're not even close.

You can't come close to pulling out. And you can't. You just can't fake that. You know, it's hard. It's a real, you really have to become an actor to be able to fake. That's true. To be able to fake that. You have to be good at it.

It takes time. It takes time. You got to practice it. And it takes years. So I had good mentors, right? I watch a lot. And you develop your own technique, right? You watch these guys.

I spoke Spanish, so that's an advantage. I make sure my English was broken. I didn't sound like that. I just came back to go to the as a year, right? Right. So you have to call up a lot. let my hair really long. I think I sent you some pictures. I don't know if you saw him yet. I haven't seen him yet. Yeah. I'll see him. I'll check him out. All right. I say some pictures.

My hair was long. I had a big beard. I didn't want to get all the tats. Some guys said, because when I got out of it, I knew I'll be done with it. Right. Right. I want to go back to who I was. I don't want to be saying, oh, great. I got this now. People with what the the heck's wrong with this? So that was never me. I never really cared for it. That wasn't my thing. So I wanted to think enough. The beard's okay. The hair was long enough. You do the accents. You get to know the culture, get to know these guys. It was easier to deal with people. If they were not Spanish speakers, you tell your story, what you're working with,

you say, hey, these families are looking, the cartels are looking for guns, right? Because they are. And my job here is to be so ATF, is to buy a lot of guns. And these guys, I don't want to follow any paperwork, right? Because I don't want to show up in those shop. You put my information in there, right? So these guys will sell me guns off the street, untraceables. And you pay a premium for that because that's what you want.

And a lot of these guys have horrific criminal history. So I dealt a lot with repeat vinyl offenders, I dealt a lot with gang members, armed drug traffickers, international firearms traffickers, domestic firearms traffickers, I dealt with armed home invaders, a case for murder for hires. So that was ATF's niche. What does ATF do? Alcohol, tobacco firearms? Well, it's a small A for alcohol, a small tea for tobacco, a huge F, and an immediate E for explosives. So we do a lot of gun cases. You know, let's say a lot of lot of guns and that's what ATF is. And so I found that fascinating. And I knew something about guns, but man, I became an expert on pretty much a gun control act, NFA National Fire Act and all the

different weapons from machine guns, silencers, pipe bombs. You know, ATF someplace called it with all the training. ATF stands for all the fun because we would do a lot of shooting. I mean, I trained in handguns from pistols revolvers, my M4, which is a short barrel rifle, right? I had shotgun yeah something show bro shotguns also we were shooting so we train a lot of different weapons and then we also want familiarized in case to come across different machine guns we know what we're doing right got to make sure and check all that stuff out so that's what that's what we did a t up and it's something early enough you have to cut your teeth you know what one of the guys have worked with uh he was Puerto rican and he was involved back in the 80s in a shootout

where he had a sick 9 millimeter the bad guy has 6 9 millimeter he fired the round and his round went into his gun and plug the barrel. So he's like this, and the run goes like this. It's like one in a million. Damn, and Hyaliyah back in the 80s. So it can get ugly and wild. So we had a good time. We had some good stories, and I learned a lot from him, and he'd been Puerto Rican, and I saw how he tackled things and all that. So I developed my own style. We worked a lot together, and then I grew up, and then, you know what also helps having good informants? You have a good informants, which we had developed a lot of these guys, they can pretty much, you walk on water, it's that goal. You say, hey, he vouchers for you. There's no more questions. It's just do,

let's do a business. He said, you're the guy. Okay, man, this is what you want. No question is asked. And boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, this is what these guys do. But if you have a bad informant who's playing both sides, it'll destroy your investigation. You have to have accountable. So you really, and once I like to, once I have the introduction, I cut them out. Yeah. And I want to do with a drama, with an informant. They can ruin your case. I put too much hard work because ATF is a very smaller outfit than the FBI or DEA, right?

We have less than 3,000 agents, I think 2,800, right? FBI has four times that, enormous size. So we just can't delegate, hey, I need you to do surveillance. I need you to do undercover. I have to do everything. I'm the undercover. I'm the case agent, right? I deal with property

I deal with my own intelligence workup I wear all the different hats because you have to because we're a smaller outfit if you want to do the bigger cases now if you want small you don't do that right I was going to say the informant thing I'm researching a story right now and it's like it's funny you know you do all the

incident reports you read through the incident reports and the first thing they do like literally obviously this guy got busted you know he got he got busted I think he got no he got busted for I think it was for a gun, actually. And then he goes and he makes them, they have him make a couple of meth buys.

You know, and just, he's just wired. Like, he's just wired. They're just controlled buys. Then they have him eventually introduce, you know, his boss, which is the undercover. Then the undercover goes with him on a couple of buys. Sure. And just the undercover buys.

And then they cut the inform. And, you know, and to me, like having been in prison, I realize that the problem is, like, if you're a whole, you can't let him keep buying. You can't let the, the, the, um, the, um, informant keep buying because first of all, he's unreliable. He's got a record. And then what happens if he gets busted for something else, you know, you can't put him on the stand like it was since then. You've been busted for this and this, like, and he has a huge incentive to lie and the agent doesn't. So, you know, you want to look. on the stand, you want it to be the agent. That's right. A clean jacket. Oh, he introduced me. Here's what I did. I bought a kilo over the course of the next month.

Yeah. That's the best way to do it. You have to because, and unfortunately, some of these guys have drug addictions, right? Yeah. And they keep on doing stuff. They get messed up and they're not right where they're high, right? And they do stupid things. So those are the factors you've got to get into.

That's why I was fortunate. Some people don't want to do undercover work. not for everybody I just I liked it I really decided I kind of like playing the role I like and I dealt with all kinds of people I just told you about the variety

but I also the variety of people from different Hispanic groups different blacks different other European groups right a variety of people and because it worked and what I was doing

and makes sense it's based on what's really going on the cartels have people they need guns right and by the way not only by the guns but i also like selling some drugs in the side what else do you have for personal or for other use so i buy doping guns sometimes you come across some other stuff hey i have also some body

armory looking for the body yeah i'll take some ballistic armway it's amazing what people start telling you and what they do and what else it leads to i'm also doing this too hey this guy is also into uh explosives or into this oh hey this guy's selling lots cigarettes without tax stamps you know we do those cases too a lot less but yeah we do all that stuff so it really opens up and people talk and the They feel confident with you, you get a lot of your friends. And I had everything, like I said, for trial purposes, I want to make it like a movie, right? I wanted the jury to feel comfortable. First of all, I had to make the prosecutor for comfortable.

And once he feels comfortable, they had the jury. Do you hear that? Yes. Can you hold on a second? Here. Sorry. No way. I don't know.

I don't even know what that is, but here's the funny thing about it. Since I'm speaking with you is my wife's ex-boyfriend was arrested for, he had a dispute with a guy over, I'm pretty sure I think it was drugs or something, and he made a bomb and left it for the guy, it didn't go off. Oh, my gosh, that's crazy. But he ended up going to jail for it. And, like, he's on, like, the no-fly list. And so every time I get a package and I walk out, my first thought, what I see the package is. Yeah, what, too? Please let this guy.

Please let this really be from Amazon. And I keep, you know, it's so funny. Gosh, sometimes I get deliveries. You're not, it's like it's just there. And I always, I don't unwrap it. My girlfriend comes in, I'm like, you're unlocking it. You're opening that. It's not uncomfortable.

A lot of people get into making these pipe bombs, right? And they tighten them up in there. But it's also very dangerous. If you don't know how you do it right, they can't some with the flit too early and explode so they have damage. It's very volatile. I actually had a friend that was making a pipe bomb when he was like 15, 16 years old, and it exploded, blew his hands off, the shrapnel.

Like he bled out within a minute. Oh, no. But he died. And, you know, just a kid, just being. stupid, you know, thought it was cool, had made a couple small ones, and just playing, never once thinking to himself like, hey, this could be it.

You understand what you're playing with, right? Like, this isn't a joke. No, it isn't like playing with like firecrackers and stuff like that. You might lose your finger or something, you're not careful with it, but a pipe bomb that's no joke. And then these guys get really nasty with it. Some of them put like shrapnel inside to really do

some serious, serious damage. So, yeah, so that's the kind of case I wanted to do. I wanted to make sure, for the jury and for the prosecutor that we had good video right i wanted to make sure it is clear as like watching a movie i wanted the jury to see okay this is the evidence watch the movie and that's a big difference you see between the federal side and state and local right especially with the local sometimes uh it it gets a little bit different federal we have we have a little more time to take our time with the case make it the strongest case we can and get as many people as possible

That's why we have a little more time And it's different That's why I like the federal system We have a chance to really make the cases Bigger and stronger And we have good prosecutors That's a lot of them are career prosecutors And they really know how to make good cases

So that's what I did I wanted to make sure Undercover wise I had And sometimes with informants There's always issues with the equipment Sometimes they could be messed up And everything else They're not professional

Right They didn't go to school for this They don't understand case law They don't understand entrapment Right You want to make sure people understand, you know, this is what they do. This is what they're involved in. You don't want to bring someone who is not involved in this kind of work.

They're actively doing this. They're predisposed. This is what they do. And they have the history of doing this. Right. So these are all the factors you've got to come. As a professional, you bring that to a table. And informants are, I'd say it, necessary evil.

Right. Because they are the eyes and ears in the street. Because I can't live in the street, right? The reality is, I pretend to. Right. And then I go back to the. the office, I get a lot of paperwork. I got to go to the prosecutor. I got to deal with evidence. I got talking and give a briefing. So it's a whole different world and you just show up.

But the good thing about them, even though I would cut them out, remember their eyes and ears, they can still tell you, hey, I heard so-and-so had some doubts about you. I need to tighten this up a little bit. When you come back with me and let's have another conversation with them, make sure you vouch for me and make sure, hey, this is the guy, man. There's nothing to worry about. So those are things. things you keep them a distance but you still have make sure that they're listening what's going on because that's important because the last thing you want to do is get uh cut off guard and i was fortunate enough i mean there's always some hairy close moments right but you know you're you're gonna have

and i'll give an example and i put it in my book atf undercover which uh i talk about and this happens and i did a lot of work in pascoe county and uh had an undercover apartment and westy travel i had i did i live i know i know i know i did I used to live there with Chapel and then move down south when I first I'll start working out there a lot cheaper than Tampa when I've in 2000 I know what it 54 is complete different than it was 20 some years ago for well I live all I live all I live off 56 you know 54 turns into 56 so but yeah it's even further like it's a 15 minute drive to 75 from where I live it's like living in the Truman show though I mean it's the houses are everything's brand new. everything's underground, you know, all the houses look, I mean, it's, it's a great, it's, it's a great area, like, everybody, it's funny on, on my street, there's two sheriff's deputies, there's like an insurance salesman, there's a couple of bankers, like, the only, I'm the riffraft on the street. So, you know, you're not, 56, you're not too far from Landau Lakes either then. No, no, very, very close. very close

yeah michael i don't i guess yeah i got to i got to know uh pascoe really well from making the cases so i got to know pass i don't know how much you know pascoe but i i got to know all the way to new port ritchie port ritchie the hudson area even across new yorkarpen springs uh and going to zephyr hills so this takes place

not to this story here this happens in zephyr hills people who don't know zephyr hills or date city at the time i was working i would say it was back in two thousand to 2012, and this story takes place on 2009, 2010. So this is the Dade City, Pasco I'm talking about. And the Mexicans were already picking it up, right? They're moving a lot of meth. There's no more meth labs.

There's still some, but now they're bringing a lot of the meth from Mexico. They're just piping it in. And that whole era became a big pipeline, which I was saying is, I think a lot of drug and a lot of Mexicans still out there, which this is where everything's changed a lot. And this is a trailer. I meet with this guy He is a career criminal Drug trafficker

Where I had him forward to make an introduction First time me and him are sitting in the car together I meet him off 301 And we're going to drive to these trailers Shady trailers Predominantly Hispanic Right And he's talking to me

He's history He said man Yeah I'll get through these guns and I'll get through these guns But I used to move a lot of coke A lot of product I was moving two or three easy kilos a week I was like okay So I said if you tell me

I mean, he just got out. He wants to get back into the game. This is what he does. I said, okay. So he took me there. He's a non-Spanish speaker. And he takes me to the trailers. And he said, hey, this is my guy here.

He has the guns. Some guys give a heads up a little nervous about this. They say, sometimes guys who buy guns a lot are feds. I said, no, I'm no fed. Of course, you got to deny that. You got me. You got me in there. It's over.

Let me take you back home. No, that's going to happen. So you deny that. And he goes in there. And I talked to his guy who's there, he's Hispanic, ball head, right? And we're talking a little bit in Spanish. He's testing me out, which is fine. And he goes, he goes in a trailer.

So him and I are sitting outside in my truck. And I see more people. We get out of the car. And he's on one side. I'm on the other side. And I can see there are a lot more people going to the other side of the trailer. A lot more people going inside. He can't see that.

I can see that. So I can see that. So you're going to have instincts and say, listen, I just met you guys. the deal we're supposed to be doing is for AK-47, a 75-round drum, two-glock pistols, almost an ounce of meth for a little over $3,000, right? And I don't feel comfortable. He goes, hey, listen, the stuff's inside, but these guys don't want to bring it out. So I drove it out here.

Normally what you do, he should wrap it up. You're bringing the car real quick, and we're done, and I get the hell out of here, right? And he said, but he wants to come in, you go him inside. And I was like, and I know there's more people coming in. And he doesn't know that I know that already. So I'm almost like, no, dude, I don't want to be any. I said, no, it's fine. I said, no, and I said, okay, what do you give me the money?

And I'll get, I'll get it for you. I said, no, I'm not doing. I thought, what's going to happen is you're going to walk with $3,000, and I'm going to have a bigger headache to deal with to chase you and everybody else who just stole my money, which, that was going to be a rip. So I said, I'll give you five minutes. I'm going to sit in the car, either you bring it or I'm out of here. Because that's the beauty of being the case agent and the undercover is that I don't feel

the pressure. Let's say I was just the undercover and I'm working for somebody else or, in their case, right? Something you feel the pressure you want to make it happen. For me, I'm both, and if it happens, great. If not, I got a lot of work. I got other people I'm dealing with. I got you today.

I got someone else tomorrow, right? So I don't ever felt that kind of pressure or I had to make it happen because I want to go home at the end. That's the most important thing. No deal is. Five minutes later, a Honda Odyssey pulls up. Guy pops up with an AK-47,

same for a round drum. So him and I talk, he sells me the gun. take a look at it. I gave him the money for that. And then he has a backpack, another friend had brought him. And he sells me the Glock's with the crystal map. I saw, hey, dude, next time, just keep it between us. And I don't want to deal with this circus next time. And he understood. And you understood that. So what, what, I think it's testing me. Right. So why would you go, why, if, if the AK wasn't in there, they showed up later, like, why am I going in the trail? Like, Why, what do you think they were trying to get you in the trailer for?

I think they want to rip me off. Oh, okay. I think they want to rip me off. I think they want to take my $3,000, $3,000 and hit me. He said, hey, this could be easy hit right here and we don't have to sell anything. Because you don't know. Some of these gang members, by the way. These aren't average.

These are a trailer, shitty trailer in Zephyr Hills. There's a lot of gangs in that area. I want you to understand a lot of Hispanic gangs, a lot of gang members. I said a lot of meth, a lot of heroin, armed teeth. I don't think of it for Hills and like that at all. I mean, it's very, you know, rule. Like, you know what I'm saying? It seems like it's...

Read my book, and I'll give example after example of that area. Go in there and stuff like that. It is hot. And that's when I was there. I think it's kind of worse, what I've seen, because the cartels have just gotten stronger. When I was there, they were coming up. You know, Chapa was good, Senloa, strong.

But now you have the rise of C-JNG with Alisco New Generation Cartel. Yeah. Major rival for Sinaloa, right? El-Mancho. He's now the big player, Servantes, right? And they're going to war. You know, and all these guys, you know, El Chapo, El-Menschel, give your audience a little background.

All these guys came on absolute poverty. I mean, they were selling avocados and oranges in the street and now have risen to me big drug lords where their assets are over 50. billion dollars. That's according to the Mexican government and the U.S. government. So you tell me they're not making drug lords in Mexico when these guys, and most of these guys are illiterate. They dropped out of school when they're in the fourth or fifth grade, right?

But what are they good at? They're good at killing. Yeah. And they're not afraid of kill. Yeah, they're brutal. They're brutal. So brutal. Brut.

Is it El Mayo, which was Chappos, who basically started the Sinaloa, right? And then El Chapo kind of came in right after. But I was going to say El Mio, like. I heard that he still drives like an old, he's worth, you know, billions and billions or whatever, and he still drives an old pickup truck. That's smart. Around town. Like, you know, like he's not, you know, he lives in a, you know, different places. And you're, same thing with El Chavo.

He's always, all he's really, he's really good at surviving. He was up until the United States got him, you know, but he was really good at surviving, you know, through brutality and just forth. thinking, like, always on the escape route, always be thinking, don't all keep staying in the same place, change locations, you know. That's what El Chapo was nicknamed also as Rapido, the quick one. He was the master of the tunnels, right? I remember that great tunnel he had the second time he was captured underneath that that prison? Unbelievable. Now, you know what's funny about that?

I had read that, like, the area that was where the prison is, it was actually the new, generation that was in charge of digging even though they're rivals of digging the tunnel but at that time i think at that time they were still uh 2015 yeah they began to go a little bit sideways not as bad as now but it would get a lot worse but uh what a corruption what that's one of the things i talk about is that we don't have a equal partner in the war on drugs the corruption in mexico is so unbelievable and that's the reason i bring that up because during the trial for El Chapo in New York

and was brought these government witnesses testified that El Chapo offered this is before Lopez Obrador, the president before that with Pena Nietta

he offered him of a bribe Nietta won allegedly according to court documents he wanted a $250 million payout so we won't look for El Chapo.

They said you don't worry about you can be a fugitive for another 15 years, right? He said no, I'll pay you $100 million. and allegedly witnesses said testified he took it he took it so if the top of mexican government is on the take then we have no chance

and this is what the battles were fighting you know you see case after case after general uh attorney general i mean just keep on getting arrested for being involved in money laundering and involved in all this stuff here uh and this guy el mencho out of cj and g um he was former law enforcement he was out Halisco right he was involved in a lot of these guys know the game they know it and he's the same way we were just talking about at Mayo

when I was reading Guadalajara because now it's the battle for Walahara which is where a lot of stuff is going on but he's looked like he's won because they're trying to do a split you know how everything is everybody wants to be king right yeah one day you're the king they want to take you out right now Mencho had guys he brought in

that was former Millennium Cartel guys at split right and they want to take over and this guy's name is scapeated right now but if you look at the videos he has him tortured

right wrapped up kill him and then left the park bench is this is what happens when people betray El Mentiono right and stuff like that so right now it seems like he still has the lockdown in Guadalajara which is very important for him and he's the same

guy that you're talking about Amayo he likes to live modestly. Not like Escobar, right? I lived in that big palace, right? Everybody knew where he lived and where he was out, but he brought everybody. These guys, that's with a little key. El Chapo's bounty was five million, right,

at his peak when he escaped the second time. After Sean Penn and Kate Del Castillo interviewed him, if you haven't seen that interview and video, man, you guys need to check that out. Roastole magazine. That's great. Unbelievable stuff he said. I can't believe Sean Penn did that.

because you don't know that that's yeah that you know listen they don't care El Trapo didn't even know who he was like he's probably thinking well my celebrity will probably help help me a little bit or keep me safe a little bit no it won't he didn't even know what you are no I would not have done that

that could have got really ugly and he almost caught him after the interview because they were tracking the mixed actress Castillo's phone the US authorities were tracking and just missed him barely just barely It will take a few more years to finally catch him again

and they will not escape the third time. Not escape a third time. They obviously realized, like, look, we're just not going to be able to keep this guy here. We have to send him to the United States. And that's so sad because, you know what? Now we have the costs, right? Now the U.S. tax dollar has to pay

for keeping this guy for life, feeding him, the expenses, illegal, everything we pay because the Mexican government so corrupt they couldn't do it themselves. And it's case after case like this. Very sad. I think, you know, So it's funny, like I, I, first of all, people are always, you know, oh, the, you know, like the U.S. government's corrupt.

Like, look, there's some corruption here and there. Like, you have no idea what it's like in other countries. That's true. In other countries, look, if, and not just that, it's like, look, you're paying, you're a police officer in Mexico making six or $700 a month. Nothing. That's nothing. Like, like, I get it. You shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't be involved in corruption.

you should be, but it's hard not to be, not only for the money, but it's dangerous. Like if you end up being a cop, like it's, it's kind of like the, what was it shoot, I was going to say, there was the movie about it. El Cholo

was his name. El Cholo was a guy who, his rival, they got wrapped up and executed. Look up his name. El Cholo. Look at the video. You see the guy from CJNG behind him in masks, and next see you know, he ends up in a park van. pictures wrapped up, he was tortured, and said, this is what happened till Cholo, the traitor.

He don't play. You don't play. It's just a horrible situation in general. So, you know, when you were talking about like the higher up, upper echelon of the government, I have a buddy named Juan Sanchez, who was in Venezuela, right? He was a Venezuelan citizen, came to the United States, started doing real estate, doing very well. In 2008, financial. financial crisis hits. His subdivisions, the development start going under, he needs money. So he goes to Venezuela and he starts pitching to Venezuelans like, hey, you should invest. And so people in the government invest. Basically, the equivalent of the U.S. attorney here, right, the U.S. Attorney General in Venezuela ends up investing with him.

multiple people in the in the government investing but they're in go there he finds out later when Juan gets caught the money they're investing is money they're laundering for Mexico the cartels for the cartels through Venezuela they give it to Juan Juan loses the money oh no and now they're threatening to kill him he actually goes back to Venezuela they kidnap him for four or five days he eventually escapes gets on a plane flies back to the United States but when he gets caught he eventually obviously cooperates He cooperates and the FBI comes in and the CIA comes in. He said they never said CIA, but they never showed badges, anything.

My lawyer told me, I think they were CIA. They come in and they say, listen, we looked at your phone. We see phone numbers and names in here of people that we've had indicted from Venezuela that are in the government. So they start asking, you know this guy, you know this guy. He goes, yeah, I know that guy. and they said we've had him indicted on a sealed indictment we can't get him but you know so they asked him what happened he tells him and he says do you want me to get him to to come to the United States and they go yeah but he's he would never do that he's he's not that stupid and they go

and Juan goes no no he's that stupid he is you don't get to become uh um you don't get that high in the government without being you don't get it through brains you get through brutality It's true. So he contacts him because the guy had asked him to try and get him a travel permit in the United States so he could bring his family into the United States to visit Disney World. So he contacts him, sends him an email. No, no, that's not it. But his his visa had been denied by the State Department. He said, all you have to do is have the U.S.

U.S. Embassy write him a letter saying that it was a mistake and it's been approved and he can come. They wrote him a letter. He said literally, we're talking about three days later. He's on a plane, flies into Miami, and they arrest him in the airport in Miami. With his family thinking they're going to Disney. Disney will. No. No.

He's going to the slammer now. You know, what happens is he rolled over on a bunch of people. He ended up getting like four years or something and got back out. Oh, did it? Massive, massive indictment. This guys do. Like, at that level, you got to cooperate. You got flip.

You got a turn. And if one thing I've noticed, all these guys, too, because if you don't, you get the hammer. You get slammed. Yeah, the most time. So, yeah, you know, that's our. Yeah. Now, talking about Venezuela, man. Venezuela, it was Nicolas Maduro now.

It's a narco state. It has become a, now. He's not a communist anymore. remember him Hugo Travis this guy is no communist this guy it's all about making money but the people suffer that he keeps them suffering

this guy's a dictator he's a narco dictator he's been indicted by our government and to bring more but you know what upset means a little politics here but we'll talk a little bit of everything my book's all about this by Joe Biden threw him a lifeline

administration to see if Chevron go back there and get oil pumped up because we don't want to deal with the Russians Right? We're tired of the Saudis. What stuff he's done. Maham-Benzabin, so it's like, we want to work with the Venezuelans. Was all the stuff, this guy's done?

He's so much atrocities to his people. If you're not about him, you're done. And that's why Miami, you know, has been transformed with the Venezuelans coming over. Like the Cubas did, you know, from the 60s on, the Venezuelans have brought a lot of money to Rale. The only from the middle of South

Florida has changed immensely with the Venezuelans. But a lot of the money has come over, transformed it. So that's what you're seeing. And people say, well, man, America is it. Yeah, the United States has issues. I live in Virginia now. And I was fortunate enough to, I like to travel like history in my background.

You know, I told you political science and history. I went to Mount Vernon. And I've gone to Monticello, Mount Vernon's Washington's home. And then Monticello, Jefferson's home. And I visited there. And even it's true, 1797, you know, Washington had just finished his second term, will not run for a third term, does not want to be seen like King George or a dictator. He says, even then it applies today.

We had issues, you know, there's no perfect democracy. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best that's out there. And I think it applies today the same thing. It's not perfect people. We're not having a perfect system, but it's the best that's out there. Trust me, I've studied politics internationally, the corruption. Yeah, we're going to have corrupt officials. We're going to have problems, but it's the best that's out there.

So that's where we're at with the corruption in Mexico's. But the Mexico government is probably worse. I think it's stronger than the Colombians were because their reach is all over Central America. It's all over South America. And they have a lot of people in the United States. And they're reaching not just in customs officials, not just with politicians, but you see it deeper and deeper in our country because the money is so big and so out there. And the corruption is big.

It's corrupt here, but they're corrupting here. So what are our solutions? We need to deal with the problem within treatment. We need people to get off it. We need people to work on their addictions because it's just going to get worse. And they want to, like Maduro said, they said, they're weaponizing cocaine to help destroy this country. They think it's going to fall like a rotten apple from within.

People are going to fall and break. And that's what they're trying to do. So it's funny. So I wish, why can't I remember the name of this, this book? I used to know it too. And trust me, somebody in the comment section will tell me the name of the book. It was actually came out probably 50, probably 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago. And it's about there's a like an evangelist, like a preacher, super rich preacher.

His son gets caught. He has a security detail, right? Like, he's got several of these mega churches. He has a security detail, and one of the lead security agent or security person in charge of his security detail is a former DEA agent that had to retire because of brutality. Like, he had been caught multiple times, like, and, you know, he was, been written up. He finally retires. Well, the, I'll call him the preacher. The preacher's son ends up getting caught, like smoking, I don't know, smoking, doing drugs or something.

one of his friend ODs on Coke or something. I forget what it was. But he's upset and he ends up venting to this former DEA agent. So his security, you know, head of security, so his head of security, he's like, he says, how much money do I give, you know, every month, every year? He's like, oh, like a million dollars to these programs. And he goes, he goes, is it even helping? He's like, no, it's not going to, this is going to do nothing.

And he says, well, what can end this? And he said, well, you know, it's so out of control. But the government can't, they just can't, it's everything they can do to try and keep it stemmed. If you could get it pulled back a little bit, then they could probably get a better handle on it. And he said, there's an idea we used to kick around at the DEA. And he said, well, what was that? He said, if you poisoned the drug supply, then the, the hardcore, he said, the casual users aren't the problem. He said, casual users would just stop.

He said, but the drug addicts, he said, they would have to seek some kind of rehabs. Any rehab, yeah. Right. And so they end up, he ends up going to somewhere, and who knows where Brazil, I forget where it was, but someplace, and he ends up finding this chemist, and he ends up getting these mushrooms that allows them to poison the drug supply, right, like Coke. And he, of course, he gets a bunch of retired DEA agents, you know, friends of his to help him.

there's a group of like six of them and he ends up poisoning a whole bunch of drugs and what happens is the hardcore users they inhale it and then if they do enough of it it ends up breaking down and shutting down their livers

and they die. So they end up doing this on a massive scale. Oh my gosh. And listen, it was... And of course what happens is it works. But the problem is what he tells the preacher is like there will be

some people will get sick there may be a few deaths and he knows the reality is there's going to be thousands and there ends up being tens of thousands of death because they do it on such a massive scale and this is fiction this is fiction it's fiction yeah it's fiction but it's a great book i mean keep on it how much i read when i was locked up it was this it was just really well written researched you know, how much was possible, I don't know, but it was, it really, you know, the guys got the statistics and the whole thing, and you, you really realize reading the book, like, what a massive issue it is. Oh, it is.

And another, another way to attack it was when you're seeing here, you see it in Virginia all over the country and started with marijuana, it's been, it's getting legalized all over the country, right? Right. You take the, because the Mexican cartels make a lot of money cultivating marijuana. So you take that. away from them, that's going to hurt their profits a lot, too. So I think marijuana, you're seeing it, I mean, I know Florida is just medical, but I know

Virginia got it approved for a recreational. So it is going all over in the northeast, the Midwest, of course, the West Coast, up and down, is approved for recreational. So that's where you're seeing it. It's going that way. I think marijuana, you know, Thomas Jefferson even grew marijuana in Monticello, right? Founding Fathers. I mean, marijuana's been around for hundreds of thousands of years.

People have been smoking it, right? You know, it's not my thing. I don't like getting high. I like smoking my lungs. But if some people, that's what they want, like cigarette smoking. I'd rather not be around it, right? I'd like to eat away from that. I don't like to be around any of that stuff here.

But some people like it. I think the edibles now, I think are legal in every state. It gets you high, those edibles? Right. Have you seen that? That's everywhere now. Yeah. I mean, you know, drugs were just never my thing.

But this is the thing, I'm, I definitely agree that, you know, to me, look, if you took the money they spent on the prison population and you made going to rehabs affordable and you did more education and you legalize a lot of those substances, I think would alleviate the problem considerably. And it, listen, and it'd be detrimental to the cartels. Absolutely. Because then you're taxing it here. We're making the money, right? the states in the federal system. So you have to eliminate marijuana from being a Schedule I banned substance, right? That's the first thing, because you can do all the things in the state level, but if you're still a, you use marijuana, you want to buy a firearm

and an FFL, federal firearms licensee, you show prohibited. You can't do that because you're still a drug user, right? So if you're a drug user, you can't do that. Marijuana is still on the list there. So a lot of things, I know that's passed in the House of Representatives that needs to be approved in the Senate to start making this nationwide. Because I've seen

it firsthand. I think we're wasting time in the judicial system, clogging judicial system, when you have these petty cases. ATF went after the worst of the worst, right? The most violent. That's what you have to focus on. The most violent repeat offenders, armed traffickers, armed home invaders, guys who want to commit murder for hire, you know, international traffickers. That's gun traffickers. That's what we have to focus on. Now guys who have some weed, they want smoke, and they're doing this on the side. I mean, all the places want to have a ZT policy, zero tolerance, that's a waste of time. You're clogging the system

on these people should be treated for health issues not criminal. They shouldn't criminalize these people in my opinion. This is coming for guys who have been 26 years in law enforcement who have seen it, right? I just think it is a waste of our tax dollars. It's a waste of time. And we're building more prisons. We need to focus on and the court system gets overwhelmed it also. And you don't want any of that. So we have to be smarter. It's marijuana.

Yes. Hey, we've learned Learned a lesson from prohibition. I wrote a book about it, right? The rise of the outfit here, the Chicago crime bosses. And that's what made Al Capone. That's what made these guys of violence because it was illegal, right? And then once we legalize it, well, it goes to that. And all of a sudden, the government's making the money, right?

They're getting taxed, and everybody can enjoy themselves. You're not being criminalized for having a beer or drinking whiskey, which was ridiculous, right? The same thing, in my opinion, should apply to marijuana. The other drugs, a little bit tougher deal with, but we have to come up with solutions. But marijuana is the first gateway, I think, with that. Because, I mean, everybody in college, you see how many people in college have to go sometimes with really bad areas to get some weed, right? Right. End up getting hurt, robbed.

You just go to the store, right? It's illegal. We have to be smarter about it. Obviously, I don't want to be around it. And I don't want to smell it because I went to Kingston for do some work for training. And everywhere in Kingston, you could smell it. The ganja, as they say. Ganjaman, right?

it's everywhere. And I really don't, I didn't care for that smell. That's wrong. Kingston in Jamaica, right? Right, Kingston, Jamaica. They have a lot, they grow a lot of wheat.

They call it Ganja over there. Oh, listen. And you know, there's places in Jamaica. You can't even go. Oh, that's true. I mean, the government doesn't go. Yeah. Like, we were, when I went to Jamaica,

it's funny, I was on the run and I went to Jamaica. And we were to have the taxi driver, he's like driving us around and we were like hey let's go here let's go here and he was like yeah you can't go there and he was like listen he's like the police don't go there like you definitely aren't going there we're not going there in my cab and it was like wow it's like that bad like what even the police don't go he's like no it's combat section that area is completely um owned and operated by the you know this one gang to make a possible whoever try yeah yeah they just had a huge arrest of i think about five seven years ago guy's name was coke like

from cocaine. Right. Yeah. And the people in Kingston were writing because he obviously, you know, they provide a lot of work and, you know, it's like an Escobar type, right? They also give a lot to the community, just like Chappell did, Guzman. They give a lot, they hope a lot. They know the little people, they want to take care of little people.

So they kind of help the little people a lot because they work for their organization and do stuff like that. That's the same mentality you saw out there in Kingston. Yeah, a lot of people just want to go. If I tell me, go to Jamaica, I was going to maybe work there as an attache. But once I saw first half to two weeks there, how the conditions were, no way. I wouldn't bring my family, that's for sure. And I definitely wouldn't go to my family in Mexico because also because at the end of my career,

I promoted and I went to ATF headquarters. And I worked at two years and I was helping briefing the director case with one in command for the central region, who now is number two command for ATF right now. So that's a good contact that I have. and working and talking and briefing some of the most sensitive cases that ATF was working. And then I was going to maybe travel to Mexico

but then with the issue with Lopez Obrador was going on who was the president of Mexico, they renounced our diplomatic community status as agents. So you think I'm going to go to Mexico and they don't want to carry farms. So they don't want you armed. They don't want you to have divmite

community and I'm going to be kidnapped with my family? I said, no way. I said, I'm eligible to retire. I did my time up here. I said, I'm I enjoy my career. Thank you so much. And then I got into writing. Right. I did a nice trip in writing.

Well, I've been writing like this by a year and a half now since I've been retired. But I used to write a lot of reports, right? You get good and really detailed in writing a lot and a lot and a lot. So I said, and I always have a thing for it. I like reading. I'm always fascinated with history and political science and current events. I'm always reading information. So that's what a lot of my books are.

You know, I got fiction, nonfiction, but I do a lot of politics. I do about organized crime. And I realized, you know, when I started writing, and I'm here to promote anybody. But, you know, I had a family member. She was in the publishing industry for over 20 years, right? She got laid off, and I was talking to her. And she said, you know, it's hard at the time. You know, COVID was still around, right?

And it was such a huge backlog. And I said, you know, you might want to look at Kindle. and with Amazon because you can self-publish. And you don't have to wait for anybody, right? And you get like 80-20, especially digital books, like 75-25, right? So, you know, screen on both ends. It's screen for my pocketbook

and the screen for the environment. You do the digital books, right? And then I'm now doing audio too. And shout out to Sean Milo for that. We'll both know him. It's a great guy. And that should be coming out my book. If you're not, maybe it's a big reader.

And I've been told a lot of people would rather listen to it. Yeah. And it's a great, great story. I encourage people to listen to these books and go audible. It should be out, hopefully, in about a month or less, be out there. So I looked into it, and it worked for me because I go at my pace. I do whatever such matters. You know how it is?

A publisher, you get rid of the middleman who only cares about making money. It's not about always making money. It's about putting something out there, which I wanted to talk about, read about. Right. I was going to say, also, you know, as a writer, you make. make like you'll make six dollars six fifty seven dollars on a on a book that you sell on on amazon and if the publisher sells it you're making a dollar 15 a dollar 35 like you know and look the i got up i was locked up i got a book deal they were in barns and nobles you know that's

great like how how exciting is that that's super cool but in the end like six months ago this is five years later six months ago is the first time i actually got a small check from them by because it took that long to pay back the advance they gave me they gave me like a $3,500 advance and listen in prison 3,500 bucks is a lot of money but you know it just took that long to even pay it back that's ridiculous now you would have made a lot more money with Kindle for for sure yeah yeah i like doing all i mean and i enjoy just like i did my cases i wore many hats i played that with my books i do my own book covers i do my own editing, I write the material, I choose what I'm going to write about. I just did a book that

just came out, I think I forward to you on Facebook, a messenger on Jim Jones, right, in Jones Town on the massacre, because it's now 45 years, and I want to do a little bit deeper dive in that, and I found some pretty interesting things in there, and mistakes that were made, and I thought things, and I also gave my opinion, right, based on my expertise. Right. There's a worst U.S. cult mass murder in U.S. history, almost 9, oh, 950. 50 dead, right? I was going to say almost 1,000 people.

There's something like 150 kids or 200 kids or something. How many kids are that? More of that. That's horrible. You could hear, if you haven't heard the Jim Jones tape, because he recorded the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. You should hear that.

Horrible. Horrible. My kids are crying and everything else. And the mother, his wife, Marcellina, her name was, she's telling him because these are his kids too. He's poisoning. He said, let the kids live. And he goes, just like this, he goes, mother, mother, mother, please. You know, he's already crazy.

Mother, please, like it's very sarcastic and nasty. Like, says, you know, children hurry, because he already killed the congressman, right? He had his go out already killed the congressman, Leo Ryan, and his entourage, NBC, and everybody else, Washington Post, they gunned him down because they knew they had 20 defectors. He knew it was over. It was over in Guyana. And then he said, when they came back, said, hey, some escaped. He knew it was over.

He knew they were going to come down, put him in jail. shut it all down and he was so selfish he rather everybody killed themselves to make that statement he called it the suicidal revolution which is insanity all these people's lives that came in in for a better life lost her lives drinking the Kool-Aid that's what's called right drinking the Kool-Aid it wasn't even Kool-Aid Flavor-Aid yeah Flavor-Aid but it or Kool-Kool-Aid yeah four Kool-Kool-A got hit with Kool-A drinking the Kool-Kool-A this all time I'm drinking the Kool-Kool-A was there for Kool-Klaid But I was going to say,

look, take the, the problem is everybody always face, everybody always focuses on the murder, right, right? The mass suicide. Even if you remove, if you remove that, though, his rise is amazing. Oh my God. His ability to manipulate is amazing. And the fact that he starts Jonestown.

And then the senator shows up and they, they realize the senator, they realize what's happening. I'm sorry, Congressman's going to go back to the United States. He's going to he's going to tell everybody they're going to obviously send over the troops and grab these guys. It's coming down. But then he actually sends his guys to kill him. That's unbelievable. And they do like that story, that's the great thing of what I love about, I love about nonfiction.

You couldn't come up with that. No. Like that is so bizarre. You know, the term, you know, truth is. stranger than fiction. That's true. I agree. If you told someone that and it hadn't happened, they'd be like, yeah, bro, that's just

like, it's too out there to believe. Sure. I agree. Like, that's just too. And it, but it happened. It's an amazing story. He's another guy that grew up, but I didn't know his background until I reached, this is a reason why I do stuff like this.

I love researching nonfiction. I love it. I've done a lot of these. So if you like what we're talking about, check out the book, please. It's on Amazon and just came out. But with him, he came out of absolute poverty. Yeah. Object poverty.

I mean, out of Indiana, right? In Lynn, Indiana, his father was a war-on veteran who suffered serious, serious chemical tax. You know how the war was at the trenches, right? Yeah. He couldn't breathe. He couldn't work. Couldn't do anything. Guy was disabled, pretty much.

And the pension was horrible back then. And then they had the Great Depression. They lost her home. The government, the company, the mortgage company ceased it. and the family had the environment shack and they lived in a shack with no plumbing and no electricity an absolute horrible situation

so that's why he, I think he need to find something and I think that's what he found religion and ministry, his cult because he would obviously perverse it completely and he would end up you know the people's temple was ends up being a cult

pretty much because to join you have to turn all your finances to it right all your money goes to him him. He'll take care of you. He'll find your housing. And he took advantage, and I hate to say, it took advantage of a lot of minorities and a disadvantaged people, right? And a politician, because he came up with integration, right? He was one of the first guys integrating the churches with blacks and whites and everything else. Was unpopular in Indiana, right? He ended up going

in San Francisco. Of course, very liberal out there, right? Became very popular. He would help get votes for the mayor. And 76, Walter Mondale and Jimmy Carter. Was there any help California go blue? Right? So he can be forward. So that's why they were embarrassed, humiliated, right? Angry. They didn't want a full investigation on Jonesdale. But this guy, Ryan, he was a Democrat, but he knew there was something wrong. And but this is where I criticize him in the book a little bit. When you know this guy is so unstable, right? They had already information, affidavits, and defectors that they were already doing mock

drills like this, drinking the Kool-Aid. They already trained them that if this happens, this is what we're going to do. They have people what they call White Knight drills, where they have gunfire over their heads. So they would just stay down, and they would drink the Kool-A. He had all the cyanide prepared for this.

So you don't think... But I, don't you... Look, but I hear what you're saying, but if you were telling me, that, I would be thinking, that's crazy. It's too crazy. Like, that's not going to happen. Like, that's never happened. Like, I mean, in the, in history,

it's happened. But it's so unbelievable that an American citizen and that a group of American citizens would have done this, or that anybody would follow or anybody would follow through like, okay, he's doing it. I get it. He's out there, but that's probably not.

It's not going to happen. And, you know, who's going to kill a senator? That's not going to happen. But the senator or congressman? Congressmen. Not just a congressman, but the entourage that's with him. The staff, yeah. The staff, and there's one lady who was his staff member.

She survived by playing dead for 24 hours on the strip there until the army came in to rescue her. She played dead. She had five bullet wounds aside her. She just wrote a book in a great interview. I haven't seen her talk about it. She gets very emotional. Now she took over his old position like 10 years ago. So now she's a congressperson from that, from that.

district. Okay. Yeah. Unbelievable story, but you know what? A lot of people didn't commit suicide. What the investigation shows, they wanted to leave. The guards, his what he called the red, but he's a communist. Those who don't know, he's a hardcore, very much Marxist-Leninist communist. He hated this country because obviously the racial issues, he called it pretty much a racist, fascist nation, right? And he wanted to set up this Marxist utopia. out there in Jonestown, he was big, a Fidel Castro, he was a big fan of the Soviet Union. He even had Soviet officials come in and say, this is the perfect Marxist utopia that have set up here, and they congratulated him.

They went out there and said, man, you've done here, but at the same thing, these people were pressed. They had him, he hadn't worked 12-hour days. He fed him rice and beans while he ate like a king, and at the end, those who didn't want to commit suicide, the gun squad, what I call him, the Red Brigade, came out with injections and injected everybody in the shoulder. with a cyanide and you see that and and so a lot of people were murdered and to me when you're brainwashed like that you're being murdered because it didn't some of the people even try

and run off into the woods and stuff and they were shooting at them or they didn't you can't you can't no escape you have to die when he says it's time to die it is time to die there was no like hey this was a mat now these people were murdered i mean a lot of people say you know especially children and they have no no saying it they were forced to do that they were forced to drink that small children. They were killed and they were a lot. I think there were 200 something children that were murdered and they're including his own children. And his own wife even protested and said this has to be a different way. And then it goes, mother, mother, mother, mother, mother, mother, please. You know, he goes like, he gets, he's already in that crazy

psycho world. He tells children, we have to hurry, children. We have to hurry. We have to send a message to the world, the suicidal revolution. I mean, he was just off his, I mean, who are the right mind? We'll see. Because he wants to send a message. And then he didn't take the Kool-Aid himself. Sinai, he shot himself in the head. Did you, well, so I forgot, I'm going to butcher this guy's name. The guy who wrote Fight Club, a Chuck Pahulnichik. Yeah.

I know I bushered his name. Anyway, he wrote a book called Survivor. And it talked about a mass suicide. And he talked about several mass suicides in the book. but it's very much written in the same vein as Fight Club. You know, he has that real choppy writing style, which is great because that book really moved along. He also talks about, like, that's a great book with about multiple different types of suicide. Talks about Heaven's Gate, Heaven's Gate, yep.

Yeah, that's mass suicide, but nothing like, like, nothing compares to. There's nothing. We've never had it. It was the worst mass murder until 9-11, right, with Americans? right i see that um so you know and and and with that so going back to my point i thought the congressman made a mistake i know he had a history of being very proactive he's a democrat and remember this guy jones helped the democrats win the 76th election the national election he helped it win a lot because he was key getting the votes out with african

americans because he had integrated church he was a socialist remember and there's a very socialist area So the State Department did not give them a lot of information while I was reading. According to the staff member who survived, what really was going on? Because remember, they have people already saying about all these defectors saying, hey, dude, they're doing mock exercises. They're torturing people in there. If you stand up anything, they'll put you in this hotbox. They'll put you underground.

They put you in a well. They really torture people. You better get on the program. There's no escaping. There's no leaving. This is what they're doing to you. So I think it was a big mistake. him knowing what's going on there

knowing these guys are armed he knew they were armed I personally as being common sense is I need the guy in government to help me give me security protection he went unarmed with he thinking that the media guys oh yeah I have NBC with me at the Washington Post they're going to

he's not going to shoot us with the media here yeah kill everybody this guy's not following the Geneva Convention like I can't shoot reporters or medics Don't you know I'm a congressman? Yeah I don't think he can't hear

Yeah Yeah man He can't care So that's done You can never underestimate your opponent Never underestimate your opponent Never underestimate Yeah

Be prepared I think he would have If he would have had the army Or at least some representatives And they saw the evidence I think they could arrest him And he would save those lives I think he was just approached the wrong way

And at the end Knowing that kind of person how volatile it is, how could they not think that would not trigger that after he didn't practicing that, right? He pretty much said that's what he's going to do. Arrogance.

So that's my criticism in the book, if you read it. I blame a lot of the card administration at a time for, obviously, he went out there as a congressman. He could do his own investigation, right? Different bodies of government. You have the executive and legislator,

legislator, but they should have given some support and protection because he was set up to fail. He was set up to fail. And they failed badly. And look what we have, the consequences. So something you've got to really think about this guy. And he really, there's a reason why he created Jonestown,

because he was this close, again, picked up in the U.S. for obviously tax evasion. He really didn't have a church. He had all this protection as a church, but he was a cult, and he was stealing, and he was abusing it. He would rape the members. He would even rape males. So he was involved in a lot of bad things.

So he knew his time was coming. That's where he set up Guyana. I think originally he wanted to go in Brazil but it was easier for him because Guyana was a British colony, a former British colony English speaking and it just worked out easier for him to go to Guyana which at the time had become a socialist nation also

very communist. So that's another issue they had to deal with so interesting read if you like what we talked about I think you'll like the story of Jim Jones if you don't know much about it a lot of the younger generation I've noticed doesn't know anything what happened in Jonestown so read about it you'll be shocked and the video

his video is taped the death tape you got to listen to that about the brink of a madman with a thousand people jumping off a cliff yes um well shoot i was going to say something too when you were talking i was thinking um oh oh i know what it was it was the uh um it kind of one of the things you were talking about finances is it reminded me uh um of uh uh david caresh Oh, Waco, yeah. Yeah, he would have everybody, he would have all the women and everybody go and get on food stamps and get on, you know, like that's a big thing with the cults. One of the things they do is they immediately have everybody sign up for, you know, they call it, what they call it bleeding the, bleeding the beast. They call it like bleeding the beast where you sign up for all the subsidies and all that you get as much as you can.

Of course, they all live there. And he, of course, you know, he's got air conditioning. He's eating well. they're all like a king yeah yeah that's typical with this communist you know socialist system look at nicholas maduro you look at fidel castro you look at shijing ping in china you look at kim young in in north korea they abused the people the little people they think this is better for them no this is the best system out here folks don't get conned into that this is this is the best system out there nothing is perfect but it is the best system at least you know

you can work your way up you want to get you in education you want to do things you can make something in your life here. And it happens. One thing you can never take away from you, I tell people this all the time, is your education. They can never, no matter what happens, they can't take your education from you, they can't take your drive from you, they can't take your determination from you. That's built within you, no matter what government happens in here. So educate it and be free, and there's a lot of brainwashing, and be a person, ask questions, get different sources, don't just accept one source. And unfortunately, these people did that, right? And you see the communists do that. And he was very good at propaganda and brainwashing,

You weren't allowed to you other information, but other sources. It was his source information, healthy diet every day. That way, as Castro did the same thing, CCP does the same thing in China, and I've written about those books in China. They like their one-party system as our way or the highway. So it'll end up one or three ways for you. Either their death, imprisonment, or they're going to kick you out of the country. That's a reality.

That's the reality we live in the 21st century. All right. that's depressing so all right so but true though right you really brought that you really brought the dinner of the show down no but but but but we're it though we're the shining light here so hey good thing is we're living the good country be happy you're born in communist china or or venezuela or north korea that is just i've ever seen the videos out there man that is depressing see that so those are the books also all the kind of books I've written about so I have such a huge for almost, no, I just did 60th.

Jim Jones is my 60th book. I just did my 60th book in a little over a year. So it's pretty cool. You can find it. Now I'm doing the audible books should be coming out. That should be coming out within a month on ATF undercover. And then I'm doing more with Sean. We're just doing one of mass shootings.

We just started that one. Some of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history. And based on my background, solutions to that. I mean, that could be a show within itself. what's going on our country with mass shootings that's depressing for me and how we can stop

and how what we can do I don't know if you've seen the video or not and I talked a lot of people about this and done shows about this Ovalde, Texas what happened Rob Elementary No, I haven't yeah you have to look at the video

77 minutes while the shooter's in the classroom killing the students and teachers while the police is outside Oh okay Yeah I've seen bits and pieces You know, see the whole thing. It is really, all of it's out there now. And what's really upsetting, and you've got to watch this in the audience to look at this,

one of the officers, female officers, you know, they forget they have the body cams on, right? Right. And another guy was recording her because everybody has it off. And I guess she had her off, but he has his on. And they're outside. They are already, finally, it was the feds. It was the Border Patrol. The attack unit came in there.

And it wasn't the locals. The only ones went in there. And there were, I think they were like 15, 20 miles away. And they're the ones that came in the classroom. And they're the ones that killed them. Who killed the Rommels inside there. It wasn't the locals to stay outside. She said, he said, it wasn't your daughter in there?

And one of the guys are saying, no, no, my daughter was a VPK. But if my daughter was in there, I would definitely have gone in. Whoa. Come on. My daughter was in there. But the other people's daughters, children weren't good enough to go in there? I mean, that's what you serve and protect. This is what the call is about.

When you've got that kind of situation and kids are dying, one of the girls are calling 911 to sell her teacher get their head blown off, right? And the other students are dying, bleeding in there. It says, please come and help using the teacher's phone, right, to call 911. You stay outside the classroom because, oh, he's got a rifle. We have handguns. Well, they have nothing, right? Go in there.

Get a shotgun. You got shotguns. You got everything else. Those are the kind of things I talk about work. You need people who are teachers are willing to predict. Teachers are willing to die for the students. Some of them were showing the students at the end taking the bullets for the kids. They want to fight. And they'll just like after 9-11

when we had the, after the pilots, right, taking over the airplanes, they had the option to be armed, right? Where it's the point where we would probably have to do the same thing with administrators, teachers, the same thing, because some police officers happen in Miami and Parkland. They stayed outside, right? And Cruz ends up, Nicholas Cruz, ends up killing a lot of the students and teachers inside

because he has a rifle, right? I understand it's not a fair fight. You're a handgun, he has better range, it's faster, and he's got through your body hour, but these kids have nothing, and the teachers have nothing. And staying outside, that's being a coward. After shoot training, so you've got two people in,

you can do it, and you address the guy, because that's what you're supposed to do. So I address a lot of that. I've been coming on Audible, so it's already on that, and I talk a lot of scenarios, what we've learned, what we haven't learned, and the problems we have,

We may have to become more like Israel to protect ourselves because the response time is too long. And if a lot of these places don't want you armed, well, then you have to do something about it because this doesn't end. We just had another one in Michigan State, right? It just seems like every week there's a new active shooter. As we speak right now, Matt,

there's somebody else who got triggered. It's going to do the same thing. Because we have a mental health crisis in this country that's unimaginable. And on top of that, easy access to weapons. that's that's the problem that's another that's a depressing thing about 21st century America right now and I put that in my book here it's still solution because the only other solution is a good guy with a bat taking on bad guys with guns right letting

everybody be armed and because in Indiana a few months ago in a foot court in a mall a guy had armed himself in the bathroom he started shooting but somebody was was armed to see a weapons permit and addressed them and killed them yeah you never see You didn't see that video, though. That's not the same. They push. No, no, no. They'll push other stuff.

So those are things I want your audience to think about, good conversations, serious topics we've taken on. But that's what I write about. Things are happening in solution my back, especially with ATF, my back with guns and stuff like this. It's really things that shouldn't be politicized by the right or the left. This is about us, right? Our family, because nobody wants their kids kill them. Everybody wants to have their peace of mind. and I have two daughters, safe at school.

That's the worst case scenario. You get that call. School got shut down. A madman's, it's in the looser, and they do nothing. Pulse nightclub. I mean, it's just case after case that police don't go in sometimes. Post nightclub, they spend, like, for 12 hours while he's in a member in the gay nightclub. The guy is shooting everybody in the gay nightclub.

I mean, they wait for the SWAT team while the people are in the bathroom and he's lining up in the stalls and shooting everybody. Why aren't they going in? So it is just one after another and I pick apart each one so it's an interesting read what we have to learn and what we have to do and it's about people being armed. These gun-free zones, Matt?

Yes. The bad guys are going to victimize you because they... They're going to be armed. That doesn't change their thing. No, they're going to be armed. They know that's easy pickings because I've done a lot of shows with guys and, you know, just my own history who have a history and that's what they look for. You know, they look for the bank doesn't have the armed security guy, right? They look for the place in the mall,

which is nobody armed, no policing or the theater. These are things we have to be prepared for. If you outlaw guns, like, you know, outlaws, like, you know, look, let's face it, criminals are not going to abide by that. No, they're not going to abide by that rule. Oh, we're not allowed to have the gun. Oh, well, then I won't. What are you talking about? If you're willing to commit a mass shooting, you're willing to break the law, the gun laws, you know, and you're going to, there's just too many guns. There's two, you'll never get rid of all the gun. No, we can't give a little gun. The United States is the biggest manufacturer of weapons in the world. Yeah. I mean, the Europeans have come here. I mean, you have Glock. He's made in Austria.

It's made in Georgia. Sixth hour, which is made in Germany, it's made in the Northeast. H&K, also in Germany, they've come here because we're buying it all. America, I mean, I have my collection, too. But you have to protect your family because if you expect Cole 911 and the police who come to save you from a home evader in your house, they'll hold your breath. Yeah. No. You better get your concealed weapons from it. You better practice. If you haven't shot your gun and that's the first time you're going to shoot it,

that's not the time to learn. You better be competent with it because you're going to be pumped. You've got some crazy coming at you. You have to be ready how to use it and defend your sand. Because the worst thing is you see somebody do something bad to your family and you wish you could have stopped it. Just so it just listens for a guy retired law enforcement of what I've seen and hopefully people can learn and just pass it some wisdom on what we can do.

all right that's awesome man are you ready yeah we're not yeah yeah just uh you mean do a little little promo yeah yeah absolutely i usually say that you know obviously i'm gonna put colby which is

anybody watches this knows who colby is colby will put you know the the book links like if you send me the book links he'll put your book links in the description oh great of the of the video So people can just go to the description box

You know they just hit the button and boom It'll have a whole list where they can just click on it Bring you straight to your Amazon account Or your Amazon book And I'll I just have an Amazon author page all my books I'll just say you the Amazon author page that I have It's a great one so I let the audience now also I do also have a Amazon author page too

You can Google it I'll go obviously go in Amazon Which is my name I think it's there Ignacio Estabon and you can see all my books, 60 books, from fiction to nonfiction. I also do fiction books also, which is fun, reads. I also do pictorial books. And I think you're really like, if you like organized crime, I have a lot to do. This is a true crime channel. I have a lot in organized crime. My personal experiences deal with Biker Group, but I haven't even talked about that yet. So that could be another show down the road if you want, doing the one percenters, doing the outlaws, the Hells Angels,

the Mongols. I've done books on Yakuza. I've done books on LA gangs. I would in L.A. for eight months between the bloods, the crypts of Mexican Mafia. I've done books of MS-13, Manasala Trucha. So there's a lot of stuff here. If you like this stuff, I've obviously done books on the Mafia, Castro, the Mafia and the history of the

Mafia in Havana. The rise in fall, the Mafia and Havana led to rise in Las Vegas. And I talked about the political side because of my family, they were there, they experienced it, and you see it firsthand what's going on there. So a lot of cool things. Please look it up and have the audio stuff coming out on Audible, 8

fun to cover and hopefully to get the other books out there through Sean. It's on Amazon, right? Everything's on Amazon. All my books are exclusively on Amazon. I'm now 72 books. I've got super long ones, medium ones, and short ones. And now I'm getting into the audibles. Right.

And I was going to say, you're working with Sean to do the audits. Sean Milo, excellent. Yeah, he's great. You used them. Others have, he've been doing it for years. Nice voice, easy, soothing, nice to listen to. Can't complain about that. Enjoy that. And if you're a Kindle, an unlimited subscriber, all my books are free. So if you're a KU subscriber, enjoy that, you got to read all this stuff too with me. So I'm getting a lot of stuff out there. I'm just, that was just finished. I'm now working one on the Mafia and Miami, the history of the mafia and South Florida. Fascinating. Stuff I didn't realize. And it's, I'm working that book now. So that should be fun one.

Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this. And share the video and leave me a comment um we're going to put the amazon link in the description and all right i appreciate you guys see you