Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Most Bizarre Trial Ever: Wrongfully Convicted, Outbursts, and Oddities

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

The Most Bizarre Trial Ever: Wrongfully Convicted, Outbursts, and Oddities

What I did was start duplicating prescriptions. It went over so well, I started doing it more and more and more, right? All of a sudden, it was a highway patrolman was coming to my apartment at night and shining a light in my apartment window. I opened the door, dude, and they were laying on my car with AR-15s or whatever, planting guns everywhere. God, that's a crap, man. They ran up, and he handcuffed me and picked me up, and they started screaming at me,

where's the guns? I'm like, what? I don't have any guns. I was born into Soto, Kansas. I had four sisters, lived with my mom and dad. They got a divorce when I was like, I don't know, 16, 17 years old, something like that. I was already pretty much out on my own anyways. And I didn't have any real, you know, I drank and did a little drugs and stuff,

but I didn't really do any, I wasn't into any real criminal activity. You know, nothing, nothing. I'd never been to jail, nothing. Up until, well, one time I did, the very first time I ever went to jail, I was driving. home from work and i got pulled over and they said i had a suspended driver's license i went to jail it was for one night but and it wasn't suspended of all things it really wasn't and they had to let me go so nothing came of that but years go by i get married i have a couple kids and i developed a pretty significant drug problem like i started doing a bunch of uh xanax and methadone right and it

and it just turned my life into a i mean it was like a fucking you just just a mess. It just started spiraling out of control. It took a few years. Why Xanax and methadome? Like what? Okay. Well, I don't know. I just rant, no. I just ran into that combination of drugs from somebody I knew. And it worked. It was fantastic when you mix them together. It's a, it's a, it's the, the highest people are advocating. Huh? Not that you're advocating. No, I'm not. It is amazing. It was amazing, though. But I would. It was an, it was an extremely addictive too i mean i was addicted really addicted to it real fast so so what happened was i i couldn't stop taking it because i'd get so you get so sick you know a couple days you know

probably if you could xanx will make you really sick after a couple months of taking it if you try to you can't just quit taking it you'll get so sick you know i could it was this is what happened as a big roller coaster if i wasn't high i couldn't go to work i couldn't get up in go to work, you know? And I couldn't take care of myself. So it was just a, you know, I'd get so sick. I couldn't get out of bed. And so I'd have to go to work to get enough money to go get some more drugs, you know. And then eventually I figured out how to go to, they have what's called methadone clinics. They have them all over the country, but they have one, you know, they have a few around here. And I figured that out. It was before the whole prescription, before they check on it,

you know, and I was, you could go to a couple of them at a time and stuff. So it got, worse. It gets worse and worse. Well, I get up where I'm like, I don't know how old was. I feel like 40, 45 years old. And I'm married. I got two kids and we're living together. Yeah, 40. I think it was 41. And me and my wife getting a, getting a big fight. And I left that night. It's, it's fuzzy. It doesn't really matter. But I left. And I just, I didn't really have anywhere to go. So I just got away from a situation. I thought the cops were going to show up. Now, they, I don't think they did that night. But the next day, I'm driving around, like, man, I've got to go home sometime.

I think if my drugs were at home or something. But anyways, this is how it all starts, man. This is turning to do a fucking shit show. I go pulling up to my house and I, I get out of my car and I open the door. The fucking, fucking, everybody cops from all over the fucking place. Just come storming me like I'm Hitler or something. And I'm like, oh, fuck. Oh, my God.

I can imagine myself and Joe with no. drugs. I'm going to die. I'll, you know, I'll die. I got to, I gotta, you got to do what I can while I can. And I took out this bottle of the rest of the drugs. I had, and I ate it all. Everything I had, everything I had. And so they come storming up there. I didn't even move. I was in that, literally like in the jam of my door. And I just pulled it out of my pocket. And I took it all. And they come storming in there, arrest me. And I can remember this. I can remember getting in the cop car. And them asking me, what happened between me and my, my wife you know what did i do what did she do whatever and they're you know they're taking me to

jail and i black out that's it i can't remember anything i didn't even i don't think we made it out of the city limits and uh i black out and uh i and you know how you i don't know if it's ever happened to you before but you have little bits uh you know you bit little bits of memory and uh i get to the jail and there's a there's a there's this guard there named obborn i got to know later but uh he's trying to book me in but i I can't. I'm so incoherent. I can't, I can't answer the guy's questions, you know, and I couldn't hardly stand up to get fingerprinted. And he was like, I remember him saying, come on, man, come on. Let's just get through this. What did you take? What did you do? And I couldn't answer the, I couldn't

answer no questions, nothing. So he had to hold me up during the mug shot. And this thing, literally they're just too kind of something besides me and I'm, that's what I'd look like in this mug shot. just pass them out and then they they knew something was wrong but they didn't know what it was because i couldn't answer the question right so they took they put me in medical and medical is nothing but a cell with a bed a plastic bed you know if you've ever been in jail medical it's it's not it's not medical shit there's no like it's it's not like a hospital room there's just a plastic bed and like a day later or so the door opens and uh they a bunch of cops come storming in and they're on both sides of me and they throw me a bunch of paperwork, you know,

and it's a bunch of charges. It was a bunch of charges. I can't remember what they were, but the main thing was I couldn't go back home. I had a restraining order. I couldn't go back to my house. You know, I was charged with whatever the crimes were. Okay, it was domestic violence, destruction of property, and a bunch of other misdemeanors, right? Really not that big of a deal, but this is the first time I've ever been in a jail. And I couldn't go back to my house. I'm like, what am I supposed to do? I mean, I'm stuck here in jail. I don't know what I was wearing a pair of 10 inches on some jeans. My car was at home. Everything. I don't know how I got it. But anyway, so eventually, I did go back home, got some stuff, got my car. And I think I went to my sister's house. I don't know where I went. But that's how it kicks off. So I go to court the first time in court.

and they assigned me this this insane idiot uh public defender it was a woman totally incompetent this woman i don't think well first of all i know she'd never ever been to a trial now how long she'd been a lawyer i'm not sure if it was that day she was new or what but she gets to talking to me immediately trying to get me to take a plea you need to you need to just i'm like what i didn't do that i didn't hit my wife yeah i tore up some shit in my house we were you were fighting and stuff but But I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't fucking hit anybody or, you know, nothing. It was no violence at all.

And the shit's mine. What are you talking about? You know, this is my stuff. It gives a fuck what I brick. So anyway, I'm not having it. I'm not taking a plea because I think I'm, I don't know, I should have, but I thought I was just, I'm not guilty. I'm taking it to trial.

And right away, she gets real nervous. And she's trying to talk me out of it. I'm like, what are you talking about? I told you, I'm. You know, I thought you were my lawyer. You know, what are you talking about? And she even tried to say, you know, where's your wife? And my wife was in the car.

It was funny. I'm like, I don't know. I'm not supposed to talk to her. I'm supposed to talk to my wife. She goes, well, if I find out your talk to your wife, I'll have to not be your lawyer anymore. I'm like, what? Okay.

I didn't realize that the lawyer isn't supposed to know you're guilty or some. You can't outright tell your lawyer that you're guilty. you and then they can't defend you in good conscience like let's say you commit it or I don't think you can tell your lawyer yeah I did it no but let's just try to be well I didn't know that you could tell them but then they can't allow you to get on the stand and yeah is that how it is yeah they can't allow you they can't put then put you on the stand and have you say I didn't kill that girl

I don't know what you're talking about they'd be like no no we can't do that I mean with that I here's what I thought I thought the larger was there to lie through court. I mean, I thought I thought that was their job. I had no idea, right? So she, apparently, she wasn't on board with it either. But it wasn't for that reason. It was just because she, she was an idiot.

I'm a stungle idiot. But I keep pushing it. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing it. Why would I take a plea on something like that? It's ridiculous. Even if I got found guilty, what would be the worst thing that could happen? What, you know, what would happen? You could go to jail for a year.

I'm like, I don't think I'm going to go to, I don't think I'm going to go to, I don't think I'm going to go to prison or jail over this. I don't think so, right? So I push this and push you and push it until they do it. They're like, there's a pre-trial, you know, and this lady is just, I'm like, I didn't know what was wrong throughout the time. I'm like, are you that fucking stupid? Are you really that stupid? And I pushed it and pushed it until finally there was a trial.

There was a jury trial. And this is a true, totally true story too. And I hadn't been really talking to my wife. It was back and forth. It was on and on. just a mess, right? I know I wasn't living there. I know that I wasn't living at the house,

but she had to be a witness. She was the witness. It was the only witness they had, right? Because the whole thing was a conserved. But this time she doesn't want anything to do with the whole mess anyways, right? But I had pushed it all the way to trial all the way up until even through the jury selection. She had no idea about anything about jury selection. I'm like, are you kidding me?

You don't know that you can strike jurors and, you know, we don't want. I don't want any I think is I'm like don't get I don't want any male jurors women hate women is what I thought my women there's I want all women on my jury I don't want no males on my jury right she's she's an idiot so we get through it we get through and the more it goes on the more nervous this idiot it's getting right and we get through this trial we get through that we get to this trial okay it's and it's a real jury trial and this woman is is 10 times more nervous than I am about this whole trial and I still didn't get a I'm like, man, what is wrong with this weirdo? And the prosecutor gets up, they get to speak first. I know they spoke first in this deal. The prosecutor gets up and he starts babbling on to the jury about, you know, folks, is what he said. You know, folks, this isn't like CSI.

There's not going to be any DNA in this case. There's not going to be any, this and that in this case. This is the case of a mad man at the end of his rope. This man's crazy. He's a white beating a lunatic, you know, or just, he just goes off about what. of horrible bastard I am, you know? And then she gets up, it's her turn to get up and fucking defend me. And she's so nervous about talking in front of the jury, hit the judge and she.

She starts repeating what the guy said. I mean, like verbatim, like, you know, folks, this thing, see a sign. I'm like, what the fuck is going on in it, you know? So it's still, it gets rolling, you know, and they, yeah, I think they only had, I think she was the only witness. I think, but I think that maybe they had some state people. I don't know. I don't know, but anyways, my wife is this.

And she gets up on the stand and they start asking her questions. Then she's like, I don't know. I can't really remember. I don't really know. Well, did he hit you? I don't think so. I think I just said that. You know, this stuff, this drive.

Listen, this goes on for quite a while. And the prosecutor's getting pissed. They're getting, this guy's getting just, he's mad at her. He's pushing her and pushing her. And then I think, okay, it comes time from my lawyer to cross-examine her. And she gets up there and just starts, like, insult my wife. And I'm like, in the middle of the time, I'm like, hey, that's enough. Just sit down.

That's a nut. Enough's enough that she just sounded so bad. I'm like, just sit down and shut up. I said it in front of the jury. And I'm just shut, just shut up. You know, and we get in a little argument. And I'm like, okay, that's a, your honor, we got to have a break, whatever. And he's like, he excuses the jury.

They get up and walk, literally, they walk out. And he's like, okay, what's the problem? I'm like, she's an idiot. She is a fucking idiot. I mean, you can see she can't even understand the difference between overruled and sustained. She's, you're killing me here. I can't, you got to do something. You got to stop it.

I mean, you can see this is, this is just lunacy. And he won't do it. Judge Sumby, by the way, that's who this was, the guy that throughout this whole thing. He won't do it. He won't. He's like, no, it's too late. We're too deep into this. We've got to keep going.

But the prosecutor comes over with a. note and he hands it to my lawyer and I'm like hey what the fuck is that give me that you know and it says hey it was a deal they said hey right now we'll go back in the jury room and we'll give him that chance to find you guilty of a lesser charge how about that and I was like okay that that's what I told him okay she said no or something she's like no I'm not I'm like what are you knick and nuts go yes go tell them that you know so anyways we have a break this is an absolutely true story and I go the hallway and um there's a guy sitting in the hallway and it was just me and this this stranger in the hallway and i i strike up a conversation with the guy and kind of find out it's it's it's the

husband of one of the jurors and he's like man what the fuck is going on in there starts to ask me about this case and we're standing up this window looking at the window of the courtroom and i go man listen my wife is she's fucking crazy she's out of her mind she's not frankest straight whatever and we're looking at the window at the parking lot she stole my truck right out of the parking lot right in front of me

and this guy I'm like she's fucking took my stole my truck got the keys and drove off in the middle of the trial she was a witness

and now I was stuck there with no right home I'm like you see what I mean when you get home tell your wife the truth about this whole case I mean she can't hear she's on the jury

she doesn't know what's going on how crazy it is you know he goes oh my God well what's going to happen to you if you get found guilty and I'm like I don't know they said you know it could be up to a year in jail but I don't I don't think they'll do that you know so anyway long story short they come back and they find me not guilty of everything except for the lesser charge that the guy that the prosecutor your wife listen your lawyer was right she you shouldn't have let them charge you with the lesser charge then they would have just found you're not guilty they may have they may have I don't know I they very well could have been and it was a miracle i couldn't believe it i looked at well i'm like you idiot this a you you owe me because you won this effing trial you know so i think now i think sentencing went and he went straight from that to sentencing or it might have been a couple weeks either way or back in the court and i got the same idiot with me and the prosecutor literally said this he so the judge says yeah he was found guilty

something it was super minor destruction property i think the prosecutor stands up and he says your honor only found Mr. Booker-Myer guilty of destruction of property, but we all know. We were all here doing the trial. We all know that he's guilty. And he tries to get me sentenced to the same, the actual sentence. And I'm like, I'll go in my idiot lawyer. I'm like, look, listen to what he's saying. Can't you object to this or say? I've never heard anything like that, trying to get me sentence for something that the jury found me innocent of. You know, now, of course, the judge was like, you know, I ain't doing that. I can't say. They found him not guilty. I can't sentence. them. You know what I'm saying? I'm like,

this doesn't, oh my God, I can't believe this fucking cabinet. This doesn't feel like a super sophisticated criminal justice system. It is, though. It's in Leavenworth County, dude. It's kind of a big deal. I mean, they're really, really

you know, the wing in it. Dude, she was, here's what I think happened now from my later experiences, which goes on for quite some time. So I get to know all these players in this, including her. In fact, I went to traffic court the other day. You'd seen that idiot there.

I mean, oh, God, I can't stand this woman. She's still there. She still works there. I think it was the first time. It was her first month on the job. And the lawyers in the judge felt sorry for her. They were trying to help her, you know, trying to help her through the whole thing. So she can keep her job or whatever.

I don't know. I bet she's never been in the trial again since I pay that. But she won, you know. So she has a one and no record. record because of me. She's amazing. She probably thinks she's amazing. I won my first trial. Can you imagine what the prosecutor felt like? The prosecutor was serious. And Todd Thompson says his name. I still remember it. I wanted to get it. I hate this guy. So I hated the whole prosecution. It feels so personal when they're prosecuting you, doesn't it? It's like they care. I know they don't care really. They don't even think about you. I know. I just want to choke them on you. You know what I mean? They don't care. They don't go home and think about you. They think about you 10 minutes before the case when they're looking at the paperwork. Oh, yeah, it's Picklemore. again you got a red mark over my name you know a little highlighter with a red mark right i wrote a i wrote a um i got a smiley face with a frown on it i must not like this guy we don't

he's mean he's mean to girls oh yeah my lawyer said that so so she i said i'm giving her a bunch of shit she goes yeah well you know maybe you just don't like when maybe that's your problem i said what maybe you're an idiot man how about that maybe you're just i I'm a huge fan of women. I love my absolutely. No kidding. Nobody's a bigger fan of women than me. Trust me.

How do you think I got here? So anyway, that all comes and goes. But now, it came with some stipulations like six months of probation. But it wasn't, it's not really sophisticated probation. Like, you've got to go once a month. there's there's something like that right but i'm in the middle of a drug crazed lunacy i can't hold myself to you know what i mean i'm not going to make it six months of any kind of supervision dude i'm out of control right i can't i mean i can't i can't do anything it's like my brain's

put in a blender it was horrible i couldn't hardly function i mean i was passing out at stoplights uh i passed it on the highway on the way to the methadone clinic one one day i mean that's how bad it was. So you can imagine me trying to keep a job, right? I have a bunch of credentials so I can go get a job in the field that I'm in. I can always get a job enough. Yeah, but I couldn't keep. I couldn't, man, they would, I would try to hold this together. Man, try not to go there as high as I was going to be, but eventually they start seeing it, right? They're like, oh man, something ain't right. Something ain't right with this guy, you know. One day I drove, I'm not kidding, I drove all the way from my house

from Yador, Kansas to my job in fucking Missouri without my shoes on. I forgot to put my shoes on. And I get all the way to 6.35. I'm like, oh, then I got to turn around. I didn't have my fucking shoes on. That's how bad it was. Okay, now that's towards the end.

But so anyways, I get out of course. I get found guilty of that one crime. And so that kicked off everything. So now they're over my shoulder watching me, you know. and I got a report and I got to pass the drug test which I can't pass it I can't pass a drug test

there's no way it's just impossible I can't I mean it would take weeks you know I'd be dead in the gutter before I you know before I could pass the drug test so I don't think that was a stipulation at the time at the it was just real you know

you had to go to work and start paying your fines none of which I ever did I never paid one dollar of the fines and I refused to I just didn't want to do it I'm like what are they going to do well they can actually they can send it to collections and put it on your credit report, you know, but they really can't front you to pay it.

Right. So anyways, I never did. I didn't, you know, I'd make a little $50 payment or someone my probation officer asks, you know. So anyways, I'm on probation and I'm not living at home. And this is when it got really bad. Since I'm not at my house and me and my wife first, now we're separated. And I can't even remember what I was living at. I wasn't living alone.

I was either with my sister or my mom. and I have all these people looking over my shoulder and a bunch of, you know, I was supposed to go to the ridiculous shit they had me doing. Some kind of classes I had to take, something, you know, just a little shit like that. But I couldn't keep it together long enough to do any of this stuff. So let me see what happened next. Okay, so how are you getting money to continue doing drugs? How are you getting money to do that?

I would work. I would just work until I got fired. I go get another job. I'm really good at what I do. I just, I just had it. I can keep it together for a few weeks, you know what I mean? And I can do stuff on the side. It's a long story, but I can make money.

I, you know, I wasn't, I never was out stealing for drugs. I just, because I would be, by the time I just couldn't do it. I mean, I used to sit around and plot drugstore robberies and drugstore heists. I mean, I'd sit out in one of the drugstore looking, seeing when they got there. You know, thinking about it, I just never had the guts to do it. And, yeah, I was, I was Tuesday. If I was sober, I was too sick to rob it. And if I was high, I didn't care.

Why don't want to rob the drugstore? I already got a bunch of drugs. You know what I'm saying? So I never got around to rob in the drugstore like I planned. But here's what I did do. I interviewed the guy that did that movie, OxyMorons. Yeah. Yeah.

I've never seen the movie. They used to rob drugstores. There's one, a movie with Matt Dillon in it called Drugs for Cowboys. That was a great movie. Yeah. The hat on the bed. do you remember that that was a big deal they threw the hat on the bat on the bed and they were like you know someone took a hat off and threw it on the bed and oh yeah it was a bad luck it was bad luck yeah that's right yeah i got real close to robin jokes the doors believe me so what i instead what i did was start duplicating prescriptions which went over real well it went over so well i started doing it more and more right and what and here's how that ended this really happened i took it was so simple i'm like dude is the numbers on you here and everything. All I got to do is just copy it. I mean, why can't I just go to Kinkgo's

and make a bunch of copies? Right. So I did. Right. And it went great. It was for like a long time until finally one day I went to the pharmacy. And you're always a little bit nervous wait for your prescription to fill, you know? And the pharmacist called me up there and she goes, hey, listen, I know this isn't a real prescription. And, but I have to report it. So I'm going to give you 15 minutes to go as far away from here as you can go before I do anything about this. And don't ever come back in this drug store yet. I said, okay, I'll see you later. So I never did it again.

You know, I never got caught. Luckily, God, damn, I don't know. What's the statute of limitations? It's been, it's been, it's been long enough. It's been like six or seven years, right, most of the time. I should know that where I started talking about it could be three to five years. Okay, so it's been longer than five. Yeah, I went to jail.

It's been longer than five. So I can talk about any of these crimes. There's some, so yeah, I wasn't out stealing. I was doing stuff like that. You know what I mean? So I did that. It worked for a while. And then I had to go back to buying it or going back to the clinic or whatever.

Or, and then eventually I just got a crooked doctor. You know, this doctor in, in Leavenworth, this is connected to. He gets busted. You could just go in there. I was taking people in there. It was like a pill mill. It was like that guy, you know, and you just get whatever you want. I'd bring, take, have other people go there.

You know, I had this whole thing set up. I can get whatever I want. And then the guy gets, the guy gets busted. it. Now, remember this for later. He gets caught. The doctor gets caught. And they didn't put him in jail, but they prosecuted him and took away his license. And he can't, so he couldn't prescribe drugs anymore. But this is important because later on, it will come up about the lawyer. So that was not related to the story, really. But that's what happened. That's how I was getting to drugs. Anyway, so this goes on and on. I keep getting in trouble. Let me think about what happened next, because it gets real, it gets really serious. Okay. My wife, while I'm in, while I'm going to this, my wife separates from me and then we start fighting over the kids right i have two daughters who i love and can't i i couldn't not be around them and uh this is it's turning to it just a giant shit show uh there so we're fighting over the kids and and there was another case something to do with

the kid we start having to they have to mediate or something i don't know so that turned into something and uh this is over this took a couple years let me think about what happened next so i went to jail for that then i get arrested again a couple times for like calling my wife breaking a restraining order i'm going to jail constantly every time they come to the town they see me and pull me over and take me to jail you know so this starts my jail career and i started getting another people in the jail and the jailers and stuff and so so let's make it short this this went on for it so like a couple years later a couple years later it's really bad the drug Egyptians is out of control i can't do nothing

and i i go to work one day or try to go to work one day and got fired And then what I did was I went to my in-law's house to drop something off. And by this time that the, the restraining orders are real serious. They're taking them real seriously now, right? Because I've already been, I've already been caught. And they're pissed about it. And they don't have nothing to do in this stupid town anyways, but watch idiots like me. So, yeah, and they're excited.

They can't wait to arrest me. You know what I mean? They barge in my house or a traffic ticket. But they're serious about it. And I went into my in-laws house to see my kids or something. And I didn't, I wasn't scheduled and I wasn't supposed to be there, right? But I didn't think it was any big deal. And I wanted to see my daughter.

I knew my daughters were there. And so I walk in, there's nobody there. I'm like, hey, what's going on? Where's everybody at? I mean, I've been in this place a million times. I never knock on the door. I was always walked in. By this time, I'd been married for like 10 or 15 years.

And, you know, I'd go back home. and and this is when it really gets get hairy all this so i'm on probation no job i just got fired i don't know what i don't know what i don't know what i'm going to do and uh i'm going to the i still got to go to the clinic i still got to get drugs i got to do something i got to have money you know i'm getting real freaked out about it well all of a sudden uh this this cop starts uh it was a highway patrolman was was coming to my apartment at night and shining a light in my apartment window i lived in this apartment right across street from the police station at this time in yodora kansas and this cop a highway patrolman of all

things i have no idea why and i didn't know what it was at the time i didn't know that what was going on i really didn't have any idea but i had a clue i had this is what i thought that a day or so before i'd gone to this case he's in my small town i lived in and i was i was giving this case he's a rash and i hated the people that worked there and i was stole gas a couple times i'd done some stupid shit at the store and they they weren't supposed to serve me right they weren't supposed to turn the pumps on when i pull up to the thing so i pull up to get gas one day the lady won't turn the lady won't turn the pumps on and like what the fuck is going on pushing the button and put the fucking pump on right she won't do it okay so oh you you bitch you bitch okay okay so i pulled my car

beside her car and slashed all four of her sires and said yes like a idiot dude in this so this turns into a fucking manhunt dude a manhunt the people from k k Cacys are hunting me down. She doesn't find out where I'm at. And they call the cops. And the cops are calling me. And I know what that's about. Okay?

So I think that that's what's going on with this highway patrolman. It's no big deal. Whatever if they catch me, they don't know what it was me that did it? They just suspect it was me. You know what I mean? I'm not an idiot. I didn't do it on camera.

It was a really cruel thing to do. And if I knew the lady, I'd pay her back. I really would, but I don't know who it was. Now, she was an idiot anyways. So I think it's a manhunt over some flash tires like Casey. is what I think is going on. And the guy's shining and I'm hiding in the fucking bathtub in my in my apartment.

And that wasn't what it was. So anyways, I get up the next day. I get up like the next day and I'm, I get to drive around this town and hide from the cops. They're right across the street, you know. I get up early, take off out of my and go run my errands. My main thing was I had to get to the clinic or else I was going to die. If I didn't go to the methadm clinic, I was going to get so sick.

You know, I get up and go do that. And when I'm driving home from that, my fucking probation. officer calls me what are you doing she never never called me for nothing i'm uh taking just run some errands what's going on can you come in and see me today no what's yeah that ain't a good sign i'm not you know he's never called me and asked me come in and see him i know what it is but i didn't really know what it was i didn't really you know i'd been i'd been doing a bunch of stupid shit but i didn't know uh i knew it was serious at this time and i said no i said i don't know what's going on She wouldn't tell me, wouldn't tell me.

And she goes, okay, forget it. You want it for your rest. You better pee on the next hour. Now I know, right? Now I know. And I'm like, man, I'm not, what am I going to do now? What am I going to do now? Oh, man, what am I going to do?

So no job, no, you know, hardly had any money. So right then I'm driving back. I'm driving back from that phone call and I passed the police station. I got to turn to go to my apartment right across the street from them. They're all gathered around in the, like in the fire department, area there's a whole bunch of cops man and they're all gathered around and i pull up and have to stop the stop sign right next so dude i could almost that's those and they all turned around there he is get him you know get him and so i'm like oh fuck i'm pulling up here i pull into my driveway parking

i run inside shut the door and i started down on my bondsman i'm like oh fuck i got i'm about dropping the phone and i hit the guy on the line hey man the fucking cops are they're oh my god They're surrounding my apartment, dude. You got to make sure at the jail when I get to the jail and find out what the bond is. And I thought it was just the entire thing. You know, I didn't know, right? What was it? Okay, listen.

Dude, there's, I'm in the bathroom and I had a bunch of money in my pocket. Luckily, I don't even know how I had it. It's a couple thousand dollars, I think. And I think that's how I had where I had it. But anyways, I took it out of my pocket and I told the boss, I said, dude, he's in my apartment in my fucking bathroom drawer. Just come get whatever you need and come. getting out of jail. You know, I knew the guy, real while I still known to this day. And I slammed

and I was, I put the phone down and I heard him. They were like, they had like a megaphone. They'll go, my, come out with your hands up. Don't make any fucking crazy moves or, you know, and I'm like, oh, my fucking, really? Oh, shit. And then I think I called my sister. Oh, my God. Amy, listen, the cops are in front of my apartment. You go, well, go out there, go, go out there.

And dude, I was scared to open the door, but I knew just within a, within a couple seconds, they were going to throw flashbang grenades to the, they were all over i looked i looked up the window they were across the street there were there was cops everywhere the whole fucking block was lit up and uh i opened the door dude and they're laying i'm not kidding they were laying on my car with a ar 14 15s or whatever playing guns everywhere guns all over the place get on the fucking grab man you know so i got i did everything they said and they ran up and handcuffed me and and and picked me up and they started screaming at me

where's all the guns where's the guns where's all the guns i'm like what i don't have any What are you talking about? What do you mean guns? So they just they just like pull me to the side. They start and they storm in my apartment. No stores weren't no no nothing. I don't know what they, even if they'd have found something if they could have done it.

There was, but there was nothing. There was no fucking guns. I don't have any guns. So they stormed in. They come out and they're like, there's no guns in your house. I'm like,

yeah, that's what I've been trying to tell you. There's no guns. What are you talking about? What are you? I don't understand what's going on. What's the want for? They wouldn't tell me.

They wouldn't tell me for a while. And they were like, just wait a minute until our, until our boss gets here for, hold on a second. We've got to figure this out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'd like to know what this is all about. I mean, all my neighbors are looking out the window. You know what I mean? Everybody in town knows about it because it's right on Main Street, you know. And finally, this chief of police who I know, who I happen to know from that, you know, getting in trouble in that town, he comes walking up to me and he's like,

Bill Maher, what's going on? I'm like, I have, listen, dude, I'm not the. one with the guns. I don't know. But they're asking me about guns. Where's all the guns? They told us that you wouldn't come out alive. You wouldn't come out alive. I'm like, oh my God.

What? Yeah. What are you talking about? He goes, he goes, who would say that? I'm like, dude, I don't, I don't have any fucking idea who would say something like. I really didn't know. And he goes, man, they about got you shot. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I see that.

You know, and he goes, well, all right. Well, that's good. I mean, that's, that's it. But you do have some warrants. And I'm like, for what? What's the, what's for it for? Well, you got one. This is the only one I remember now.

And I try to get some, some stuff from the courthouse. There was a whole bunch of charges. But the one I was, only one I was worried about was aggravated burglary. That was the charge that they tried to charge me with basically for going to my in-laws house. And they said they were there. They just hit. They just went hid. Whatever.

It was a long time ago. They were pretty mad. me too but maybe they did go hide i don't know they said they were in the house when i was in i was i walked right in the living room hey where's everybody else looked in the refrigerator for something to drink you know what i mean it was it was it was it was ridiculous i don't know what the motivation was uh to do it i think they just wanted me under control they were i mean i was a loose cannon like who does that at cases you know and and passing out it i mean i just i just wasn't uh you know wasn't all with it and they knew it and they wanted me they just wanted

something to happen. They wanted me off the street. My whole family, everybody did. You know, so they did it. So it worked, you know, so they, I go to jail and you know, you have a bond hearing like the next day. Right. I'm still, I'm still, dude, totally confused about what's going on. No. I mean, I had an idea. I knew what it was

basically about, but I didn't know how serious it was at all. I didn't have any idea of the severity of this situation. And it took a couple days. Finally, I go to bond court, and it's a huge deal in there. There's a prosecutor in there. You're on her. I'm a, you know, this is, I'm here on special appearance. She wasn't the regular prosecutor. It was like, basically they tried to say this. We had to drag an extra prosecutor, special prosecutor here for Mr. Vicklemyer. He's out of control. This man is, he's a dangerous society. And by this time, I'd already gotten in, I was already in segregation in jail for something. I didn't jail. So I don't know if they do that there. But they put you in red in this jail. So they can identify. I know you're a problem. Yes, you're a problem. in red already and i haven't even been to vaughn court yet they're like as you can see mr brighamire his uh handcuffed chagled the hand in a red jumps you know he's obviously

out of his mind he can't be controlled he's a madman you know and i'm like oh my what well we got to get him a logger now so this here's where it starts man so i think they assign me that idiot woman again i think is what happened i'm like oh my god but uh this is so serious man now i'm scared no it's a felony there's a felony i've never faces a felony charge before and that's what's got me shook up and the fact that i'm in jail and i have no drugs no access to drugs and i'm about to die from withdrawal which is a legitimate concern of mine i was really worried about dying i wasn't i knew i could detox if i could live through it but that's how bad it was i'm serious it was really really really bad so they set the bond

like 150 or 250 000 over this ridiculous case where i hadn't even been to to no evidentiary hearing or anything yet the bond is just ridiculous i'm like i can't oh jesus christ man i remember so i leave that i leave bond cord and it's sitting in now i'm like oh dude i'm gonna be in here for a long time and i told the jailer in the in the elevator i said man listen i'm gonna be in here a long time and i don't know if i'm gonna make it i'm gonna i mean it's gonna be bad what what can i do and he said okay the guy was really cool about it too he said listen as soon as let me get everybody you know back to the pods and everything and I'll, you stay here and I'll come get you. Well, I'll take you to the medical and like, oh, thank God. Maybe they can, maybe they can help you. Yeah, they don't. They don't care either. That's the thing. They don't, they want you to suffer. That's their purpose. That's what they think. You know what I mean? So they take me to the nurse and she goes, okay, what are you doing? And I was honest with her, I'm like, listen, lady, you've never met anybody like me. Listen to what I'm doing. This is very serious. I tell her, I lay it all out, dude. The quantities, I'm like, I have to have this and this every day or else.

I can't, I can't walk, really. And she's like, yeah, well, we've heard that before, you know, and you're going to be okay. And she says, well, here's what I'm going to tell you. She gives me a styrofoam cup. Just drink a lot of water. And we'll keep an eye on you for a couple days. We'll keep you in medical for a couple days and just drink a lot of water. I'm like, oh, God, I know it's coming.

I know these serious withdrawals, and I've been through it before. on my own so I knew it was going to be bad and so they put me in medical and this now mind you I've only been to jail for a few days now so I'm not even getting hard to get sick yet by the third or fourth day is when you start getting a little bit sick but it takes about a week before it's really out of your body and you're really really really sick right and then so I'm already in segregation at this time anyway so thank God so they that's all medical is anyways it's a cell with nothing in you know it's no different than the cell that you were in and they can just they just don't want to come upstairs where you're at and come check on you and they have to take if you tell them you're you're going through a draws they have to uh they're not to do shit until your blood pressure drops or something and then they give you like a ton all it's nothing and i think they gave me a tonne all once once the entire time i mean they'll let you die in there you could have a broken arm and they just i mean you wouldn't go to medical you just suffer through it you know they just they won't do anything about it and i'm like oh jesus i'm gonna die in this fucking place and uh but i did

I went through the whole medical thing in the jail where they come in every, it was horrible. They come in every 15 minutes and take your blood pressure. They wake you up all night long. It's horrible. It's worse than being, you know, some just put me back. I'll just go all this suffer through it, you know. So they put me back in a regular pod and, uh, and I'm, I'm sick and worried too now

because you have to be able to defend yourself in jail to some extent. I mean, you have to be able to to at least try to fight. You know what I mean? And it's a fairly violent jail. It's a maximum security jail. I think it's as secure of a jail as it can be. You know, you can, there's nobody, you can get out and walk around in the pot. And this pod's real loud.

And, and, you know, so I got, and I did, I got in a fight in that pod, we went back to segregation. So I'm stuck in there, which actually turned out to be better because I was at least alone and it was a little bit quieter, you know. And I couldn't eat, man, it was, I weighed. I probably weighed. In fact, last, not too long ago, I got a traffic ticket and I had to, uh, I missed the court day, and I had to go turn myself in. You know, just go through booking and pay the fine or whatever, which is what I did. Well, when I went to that jail, they all seen me, and they were like, oh, my God.

Oh, my God. And they got all the other cops. They're like, check, come down here and look at Bechlemyr. And they're like, oh, I gained like 100 pounds. You know, I weighed like 150 pounds. And when I went in the, when they first seen me in that jail, they were showing me old mug shots. Look at him. You know, look, you can't even tell what different.

I mean, you can't even say it's a same. same guy, you know, a bunch of the people from the jail. They all knew me. They're all there. The whole, the whole crew is still in that fucking jail. And I'm, so anyway, where was I? So, I'm in jail. I'm sick. I'm dying in this cell. I mean, I really

do think that you can die from withdrawals like that, especially from a benzodiazepine withdrawals. You can actually die from it. Now, if you're an alcoholic in jail, they'll at least, they treat you because they know you can die from alcoholism. You know, and so they'll do something for you. But, and they do, they

Actually, they do a lot. They give them all kinds of medication issues. I think they give them value. You imagine that. They give them value in there. I would have killed somebody for value in jail. So I'm in jail and I'm realizing. Court dates are going by too.

So I'm so sick, man. I mean, I can't exaggerate how sick I was and scared to death. Never been in jail before any length of time. Up until then, I think the most amount of time I'd spent that jail is a day or two, you know, overnight a couple times. A lot of times. I think I got arrested like, dude, I got arrested like 15 times or something between, you know, between the very first time I got arrested and this last time, just on a whole bunch of times.

They would, anything I did, man, anything I did, they would come arrest me for it. It was just ridiculous. A bunch of, I got arrested like six times. Get this for, uh, for, I would, I would be out of my yard on and off throughout this whole deal. And I'd go home and, and get an argument with my wife, even, even inside of just, just a minor argument that's nothing big and boom all the cops are just show up out of nowhere i'm like man who's who's calling the cops who even knows i'm here every time i pulled up they the cops were there you know so it happened a bunch of times so i was in and out of jail a whole much times but this this last

time i get stuck in there i know i'm not leaving i'm about to die from withdrawals in there it was it was so bad i uh i knew i thought you know what i'm not i'm not leaving i got to get better somehow and I got to I got I got to do everything I can to take advantage of this you know at least I don't have to get up to go to work I didn't have to go to work and I wasn't worried about paying my bills I could at least calm down and focus on trying to get off these drugs that I was on that was wrecking my that was what was steering my whole life anyways I couldn't you know I couldn't get out of this this roller coaster mess and uh so I remember I was you know they let you out for insect to go take a shower and and they give you like a few minutes 15

minutes for the phone or whatever and I think thought, well, I'm going to start walking him down the stairs, trying to get a little bit, trying to get my body back. And I could barely walk up the stairs. That's how sick I was going to barely make it up to the top tier of the jail. It's only like 25 steps or something. But, I mean, I almost had to crawl up the stairs. I couldn't do it twice the first time, you know. So I started doing that.

And I still wasn't clearheaded. It took months and months. But so all this, the whole time, I'm sick, and this is what's going on. They got me on all these charges, and they started, they assigned me that law. again. I think I had to get rid of her first. I'm like, man, I can't have this idiot on this case. It's way too serious. So I had to figure out a way to get rid of that. Like I said, you can't just fire a lawyer, which I didn't, I didn't even know you could fire lawyers. Somebody in jail taught me that secret. I got both this felony case going on and in jail. And now my wife is, or separated and now she wants like full custody of the kids. This is the big of jail. Yeah, and I'm in jail. Okay. And I had to, so I had to fight that case, fight that situation, which was more serious to me than anything else and the, in the, and the felony case at the same time. And it turned into a, I didn't want to get convicted of this felony because of that, because then I would lose, I wouldn't have any say so over my kids and stuff. And it was serious. They, they could use it against me, you know. And I was trying to get that the child K, the seven, the custody case delayed so I could try to beat this felony, right? And I didn't want them to settle on anything until I had the time and chance to fight

the felony cases that I had. There was more than one. There was a number of them. And I'm stuck in jail. It's really difficult to fight a case from jail where they, that, you know, you have bond, but it's not a reasonable bond. Who can, who can, who's going to get out of jail on a $150,000 bond? A gangster?

I'm not a gangster. You know what I mean? I don't. It was too much money. I mean, I think one of the time I had a real high bar on one time. It was like a, it was quite a bit. And my sister, I got a son's sister I'm really close to it. And she got me out.

But it costs a lot of money, a lot of money. And this time, nobody was getting me out. Nobody was going to, what is it, a 15 grand? Nobody was putting out 15 grand to give me out of jail. You know, they knew how sick I was. And they, had I not been sick and all that, they probably, of you know my family price they would have found a way to give me out of jail but they i think they thought it was maybe we just better leave him in there for a while till you get's better you know

let him handle it himself let him dry out yeah and that's and that was good it worked it did work but so that's where i i start trying to fight this case man and it's a big deal to me i didn't want to be a felon and they're saying this you could go to jail for four years prison prison for four years if you get convicted of an aggravated burglure case what your criminal history mr rickleckmire which included no felons you know no felon you have a misdemeanor for this a misdemeanor for that you know which if you get three misdemeanors it does equal a felony right but i hadn't done that it had to be the same exact charge in kansas anyways if you get three misdemeanor charges for the same thing like uh domestic violence i think it has to be even against the same person three different times

it turns into a felony well i still i didn't even have that i didn't have nothing it was the only felony i had and this woman is telling me that they're going to put me in prison for four years And I was believing in it. I thought, God, that's horrible. I can't go to, oh, my God, I can't go to prison before years. And she's an idiot. I can't have her on my case. So I got, I started having to, I had a finagle of way to get rid of this woman.

And I had no idea how to do it. I'm like, oh, you're stuck in jail. What are you going to do? You don't really have a say-so over who your lawyer is, you know. But I did learn from being in jail. Somebody told me, you know, why are you just, and a lot of it was delayed, too. I was trying to, like I said, was trying to delay the thumb. case so it didn't interfere with the with the case with my kids you know i didn't want i didn't

i didn't want them to uh now if they go to court and my wife wants full custody of the kids she's going to get it because i'm in jail look at this maniac he's in jail he can't even come see the kids you know what i mean so i'm losing that if i don't win this felony situation i'm to lose that situation so i'm i'm paranoid about it and i'm trying to delay this that case okay it's as hard as i can every every ridiculous thing i can think of to delay this child in custody case and uh i had another quarter point of lawyer on this one but the problem with this guy was i liked him a lot the guy was he was he was a drunk i'd say his name but i don't want to get sued for like ruining the guy's law practice he was an older guy from leverworth county and he was uh

he was a nice guy he owns a couple liquor stores in that town everybody knows him but he's drunk all the time he was drunk at in court you know he would come and I could smell booze on him like oh my god dude I can't believe you're and he's like oh it's no big deal it's just a uh job this will get you do this don't worry about it I'm like Jesus man okay all right okay and he was taking care of it he was taking care of this I was happy with what he was doing but he couldn't he didn't want to delay it anymore or something or couldn't delay it anymore it was getting to a point where i couldn't put it off anymore so uh i thought well what can i do what can i do to get this case away well i can fire my lawyer

that's what i'll do i'll find my lawyer but i hate to i hate to insult this guy and and be rude to him i like him too much you know but i if i if i fire him they'll have to give me more to have to get another lawyer but you have to have a reason to do that they can't you can't just the lawyer basically has to say they can't communicate with you or or they don't or some you know they they have to be the ones who say they don't want to work for you anymore but you can't they know what you're doing so i'm in jail and and by this time i had i you know you get to know the guards and stuff there's this one woman there and she was nice and uh and and i didn't want to give this woman any shit really but in this situation i kind of had to um so my plan was i'm going to go to this hearing

and I'm just going to, I'm just going to raise hell in here and cause it to be delayed. I mean, I can do something to delay this truck, this case. And what I'll do is, what I was thinking was, I'll just, I'll fire my lawyer real loud like and real obnoxious like. And so the one comes against me and shackles me up and puts me in the elevator and I kind of know her. And I said, boy, just wait till you see what happens in court today, so and so. It's going to be a real show in there. I can't wait to get in there and talk to old dude in there and stuff. She's like,

but Mara, you keep yourself under control in there. I don't want to have any problems with you in that in that courtroom. I like, don't worry about it. It ain't going to be any big deal. I'm just going to, I got to get an extension.

I just got to get one, you know? And man, I didn't know I was going to make this woman this nervous. She was nervous about what I was going to do in this courtroom. So it's step, so comes my time, they call my case, they open the door.

She walks up. The guard stands right behind me and my lawyer. And I'm going to fire this lawyer anyways. And I was going to tell him, dude, I'm sorry. Got to get ready to you, man. You got to go because I got to delay this case. I didn't even get that out of my mouth. And by the way, he was drunk too.

I swear he was trying. And he was kind of, he knew what I was doing. And he was kind of chuckling about it. Well, I got up in his ear to talk to talk to him. And the lawyer, the guard was right behind me, right in my face. Like, stick in her face. And I'm like, I turn and I go, do you fucking line right in the hole? And she goes, oh, that's enough.

That's enough. I'm at it. She bicks me up out of the chair, just grabs me up out of the fucking chair and starts pushing me out the door. I'm like, oh, yeah, I start arguing with her right there. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? We stopped going back and forth, bickering back and forth. And I, I kicked the door.

I remember I kicked the door open so hard. I had, like, my hands behind my back. And I, bam, I keep the door open to get out of the courtroom. So it worked. It actually worked. They had to delay this trial now. But so they did, but I still had the same lawyer. I still had the same guys off.

I didn't even have time to fire the guy because this idiot officer got too shooking up about that, about what was going on. I wasn't, I said, look, I wasn't going to do anything violent. I didn't mean that I, that's not what I meant by saying I was going to call the problem. I just meant I was going to get a little bit loud with my lawyer. Now I was the court or anything. What are you? What are you? What are you?

One. you know well that's and she's in the elevator pushing the panic button for some reason i'm gonna get some male officers down here you know she's so when they open the elevator door man there's 1800 cops out there come storming in there what do what he do you know drag me out and drag me out and throw me back in the cell but it worked they delayed it okay so now i'm back on my felony case i have and have this other idiot woman lawyer who i somehow they let me get rid of her but that case was getting serious and uh they uh assign me another lawyer this other guy and so i tell him the whole story about what's going on and but and i'm telling

him listen i can't go to you i can't get convicted to this and here's why i have this other case going on right right and this is so that i got this this male lawyer on the felony cases i can't remember his name didn't like him he listened to my case didn't want to fight it you know they are they don't want to fight the case but i still don't know why they really don't want to, I don't know if it's that they don't want to make themselves look bad by losing the case or, or they're just not really interested in doing a whole lot for you. You know what I mean? This guy didn't care. And so what happened in my, in the, with the, with the other, my other misdemeanor cases, they let me get rid of that lawyer, the drunk lawyer. And I got this other lawyer named John. His name's John. And he's on my case. And I start noticing, hey, man, this guy, this dude's for real. This, this, this, this, this is for real. This, this. This. This. This. This guy will fight. This guy is a fighter. You know, and I get to know him.

You know, I get to know him a little bit from talking to him before and after court and he'd come see me in the jail a little bit. And I start begging him, hey, man, I think it would make sense if you were on these felony cases too, because it would just be, I think you do a lot better. You know what I mean? Understanding the whole, all the dynamics of this case about why I'm trying to delay that trial so I can get out of it. You know what I mean? You could understand all this. And no, he just want to do it. I don't want to any part of that.

He won't even talk about it. I want to even talk about it. So, you know, he's on my other cases now, though. So that's good. I got at least got him out for it. And so I got the, I'm in jail. It's been a couple of months. I had this other lawyer.

And I tell him the whole story, he won't fight. So I'm like, okay. And now I understand that you can get, you can delay the whole thing by firing lawyers. So that's my whole, that's my whole strategy. That's all I had at the time. I'm just going to keep firing lawyers until I get out of jail. somehow. You know what I mean? I mean, that's or I mean, I don't know what else I'm going to do. I can't fight it. You just can't do it. You can't fight. Not, not very well. You know, you have these

lawyers that you can't even hardly work with. So the whole strategy was to get rid of these lawyers. Okay. So the one lawyer, you like the one lawyer. The other lawyer, you got to get rid of. No, I had to get rid of the lawyer on the misdemeanor cases. That just, just to stall that case is really, the whole strategy is to stall at all. Yeah. Try to get out of jail. Try to try to, try to really. fight it, you know, because you can't fight it from there. I can't even, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't use the phone. I think, I heard you talking about this too one time. I got to jail and I was so

disoriented and so out of it, I couldn't use the phone. You have to type in your your inmate number and all this, you know, it was so complicated. I had to have somebody come help me. I mean, as ridiculous as that is, that's how, I was, I couldn't think straight. It was just, oh, man, it was a cloud. It was horrible.

It was miserable. So by this time, anyways, it's been a couple months. I started getting better. I started getting better. And I'm like, well, I pretty much already lost everything. Anyways, I don't really have anything else to lose. I don't even know what I'm going to do when I get out of jail. You know, I got to, I have nothing to lose now.

Forget it. I'm fighting. I'm fighting tooth and nail. I'm not giving in an inch for anything. And my, I was like, especially, I'm not signing anything. They kept telling me, every lawyer I had said, listen, I think, if you just plead guilty to, we can, they could lower the felony charge to, like, from aggravated burglar to burglary to burglary or something like that.

We can get you out of jail. We can get you out of jail the day, but you have to, you're going to be a felon. I'm like, well, no, then I'm not. Why would I do that? I mean, why, I'm here now. I don't, you know, I don't care now. I don't care now. I got all the time in the world.

I'm not giving in. I'm not, I'm not signing any plea from this fucking jail cell. It's not, I'm not doing it. I mean, that's, that's blackmail. That is something wrong with the justice. And they got you in prison in jail, which is hell. And you can't, and you, they're telling you, well, you can go. You can go home anytime.

He's got to sign this piece of paper, you know, everybody, everybody in that jail. In the pod, I was, everybody knew my whole entire case. And they were all pissed off like, oh, you're an idiot. You signed it. I'd be out of here in a minute. I'm like, yeah, well, I'm not you. I'm not a, I don't steal from Walmart, dude. That's not my career.

That's not what I do. I'm not a, you know what I mean? I got to, I got to go to work. And, and they might do background checks or, you know what? I just don't want to be a felon. I'm not guilty anyways. Right. And that was that, you know, so no.

And I can't be a felon because they're not that's going to interrupt this whole child case. I don't want to lose my kids and lose the, you know, the rights to my, no way, dude. You don't, nobody understood the complexity of this case. Nobody did except for John, the one guy who understands the whole freaking mess. And he was refusing to get on my case for God only knows why. I still don't know to this day. He won't tell me why. And I think the reason is he just thought I was crazy.

You know, because every time at the time when I talked to him, I was crazy. I was, you know, I was just out of it. He was just like, I can't deal with this guy. Yes, I can't do with him. He's going to be a problem for the rest of my life. I know these guys. He's going to be a problem. I don't like him.

And he didn't like what he'd heard about me, I think was the deal. And he knew the whole case inside and out. He was friends with my other lawyers. He knew them all. You know how they. And this guy, he was connected. The guy's connected. he's he's he he's just a smooth talker he he uh he doesn't even have to really talk he knows

everybody everybody likes him he gets everything he wants and everybody who has him in the lawyer they leave jail they don't stay in there you know what i mean he gets he's serious about it he doesn't want you in jail if he's if you're his client he doesn't want you in jail i'm like mean i gotta have this idiot on my i gotta have him on my on this phone case and i'm begging him and he just he starts making up reasons why he can't do it i don't know what his problem was i don't know why but i mean i didn't seem like he didn't like me so anyways but right now i have this problem with this other lawyer that they got this guy he he he's just an arrogant just a jerk i didn't like him he was a it was a he used to be a cop and uh he just didn't see any reason to fight the case

he just thought he just wasn't going to do it basically he's not i'm not i'm not you know it's just not going to do it he's not going to go do any homework about it or even try so i'm okay this guy's got to go but uh that's difficult because he doesn't want to to go really and he's not going to give up he'd say it's like a personal thing of them that i was trying to fire him like you're not going to fire me i'll show you i'm the lawyer here you know so anyway i'm still on bond this this stupid high bond and uh i start trying to fire that lawyer and then and the judge he and now remember by this time my wife is involved this is a small community my wife's involved he has a couple of her own lawyers you know but and they're public defenders so i'm connected to that

a couple of you know they can't i can't have the same lawyer she does and she has a public defender how many public defenders are there there can't be very many so i start plotting i think well this fire mall until i get to john they have to give me this lawyer they have to they have they don't have any choice what are they going to do we're thinking do not give me a lawyer right so i i think this is brilliant oh this is a great idea this is going to work once i got that guy on my case i'm out i'm out of here and uh i just knew it i just i just i just i could tell i knew he wouldn't he wouldn't be able to he wouldn't let me sit in jail anymore it'd been it been too long so anyway this guy this lawyer that was a real problem i can't i can't shake this idiot off my case so the first thing

i did was i started tell my sister knows this whole story i'm talking to her from jail and she is by this time sick of me being in jail i've been in jail for a long time and she goes way out on the limb and hires this big wig fancy law firm i can't remember the name of this but it was a high dollar law this it was a big deal i couldn't believe it i'm like damn one day they come to the they come to uh my jail my pot and they got me and they say somebody's here to see you and i'm walking down there and you can i could see where the lawyers are stuff and uh where they let you meet with them and i've seen this woman woman lawyer standing this really nice suit she's real tall and and i'm like who is this and i walk in there

and she's all real professional mr wiggumire i'm so-and-so from such a such law firm and your family has hired me to defend you in this case i'm like oh Really? Nice. All right. Now, now let's get down the business. So I got, I don't even need a public different anymore. I got this kick-ass lady from this law firm who's going to go out of her way. And, you know, just like they say, if you got your own law, if you got your money to hire your own lawyer, you'll get out of it. You know what I mean? Well, so I spent hours talking to this one, hours plotting this case. All my ideas about how it could be, you know what I mean? And she listens to all of it. And I say, hey, do you know, By the way, do you know these people? I mean, I always think this, it would be a little bit dangerous to hire somebody outside of their circle. You know, outside of the circle, they don't like that stuff. Lawyers coming in from the outside, think they're hot shots coming into their courtrooms and telling them what to do. You know, I thought that was kind of like, man, I don't know, that might be a little bit dangerous.

And she says, she starts telling me that, oh, oh, the first thing she says, say, let me ask you, who's on your, who's on your misdemeanor cases? Who's your lawyer on that? I'm like, John Bryan. She goes, oh, yeah, that's good. That'll work out. He'll, he'll fix that. I'm like, yeah, I know. I know.

I tried to get him on this case, but he won't do it. Little did I know I could have just hired him. I didn't know you could hire the guy. I thought he was a public defender. I had no idea. Okay? I had no idea I could just hire the guy. So this one, I talked to her for hours,

Plot in this case. And it comes time to go to court. And I said, I tell her, I said, listen, the first thing we're going to do is, let's get this bond reduced down to a reasonable bond that's getting out of jail it's just let's just try to get it i didn't say get me out of jail i said just let's get the bond cut in half it's 150 000 and i know that he's the last time i was in court he was i asked for bond because my lawyer wouldn't do it the man i said your honor there is i want to ask about bond he goes yeah how long have you been in there

anyways and he's looking at his paper and i'm like i've been in here for six months he goes wow six months I said, yeah, and he goes, okay, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to say, I'm going to say a bond hearing. I'm like, yes, good. This is good. He knows I've been in there a long time. He's loosening up. This guy's, you know, I'm going to get a bond reduction. They hadn't given me one, not one in this entire length of time.

I've been in jail now for six months, dude, six months, which is a long time, which is about to surpass the amount of time that I would really have to do if I were convicted. You know what I mean? now they're saying you're going to do four years in prison but the truth is it would it would be a miracle if you got it here i think i'm on yeah a year in prison right that's that's ridiculous first time they're not going to sit and and the the the guy lawyer did say that he said listen dude what are you so worried about i said i don't want to go to prison he goes man you ain't going to they're not going to they're not going to put you in prison man now i said

that's not how they're acting they're acting they're upset they're acting like they want me to go to prison. He goes, listen, I've been in this, I've been doing business in this courtroom for, I know that judge. He's not, you're not going to put him in prison. I was like, really? Because I, you know, I still don't want to be a felon. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care if they let me out today. I'm not going, not leaving until I'm, until I'm not a felon, you know. So anyways, he goes away and this woman lawyer comes in and she, we start strategizing. And then she asked me what to do in court. This, this actually happened to me. I said, okay, listen, just all I want to do is get a bond reduction. Please get me out of this jail.

I've been here for six months. Get me out of the show. And she looks at me straight in the face and says, I'm not, I'm not going to do that. I said, what? You're not going to do what?

I'm not, I'm not going to embarrass myself by asking for bond in this case. I'm like, embarrass yourself by asking for bond. That's your fucking job. What are you talking about? What are you talking about now? What?

You're not going to ask for, why would you do that? You know, and so the session ends and I go back to my cell. I'm like, man, this is weird. Why?

why would she not ask for bond? I mean, that's her job. She's, again, trying to get me to take a plea, and this is what she's telling me. Now, listen, I know some of these people, and I know I can get you a really good deal. I can get you out of jail, and you won't go to prison,

and all you have to do, all you have to do is a degree to five years of probation. And I'm like, and I'm going to be a felon for the rest of my life. I mean, there's no getting rid of that. Right. Yeah. But listen, it's no big deal.

It's just, it's five years that you get it. I'm like, yeah, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. So the next day we had court, and I'm like, I got to get rid of it. I got to get rid of this one. Now, this is a real issue now because my sister paid a ton of money. This is no joke of a lawyer.

This is what when it was a big firm. It cost a lot of money. I don't know exactly how much I never gave. I think it was like $10,000 or something ridiculous. It's a lot of money. Yeah. For one, one. for state charge.

Yeah. Yeah. And, well, the money, first of all, could have been used for my bond. My sister weren't going to do that. But she was connected to this firm because she had, her son had been in a bunch of trouble. And they beat in a bunch of the cases, right? Well, for some reason, this woman won't do it. We go to court the next day.

And I thought, I got to get rid of her right now before there's any more money spent on this idiot. And she's going to destroy me. She's going to, she's not willing to fight him. I'm not I'm not doing it. So we go to court and the judge says, man, they actually called a special session. It was like out of the blue. It wasn't a scheduled court date. It was like once I had her, they had a special hearing like the two days after I got this lawyer or something.

Just all of a sudden it was like after hours, they called me up there with my lawyer and the prosecutor and everything. And they think they got a deal. This woman really thinks that she's got me talked into this deal or something. I don't know. Well, I knew I had to get rid of her. And so as soon as I walked in the courtroom, and they start talking. I'm like, wait a minute. Just everything stop. I don't, there's no point in me even be in this courtroom because this woman doesn't represent me. And they're like, what?

What are you talking about? What are you talking about? And I said, no way. I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not, she doesn't represent me. And the judge by this time, he knows, the guy knows me. I've seen him a hundred times. He's, he's pissed. And he actually says, okay. Okay, what exactly is the problem?

I said, I'll tell you, I'll tell you exactly what the problem is she, I talked to her for hours and she agreed to do something that she's now unwilling to do. And he's like, long story short, he said, well, you can't tell your lawyer how to defend you in court. I was like, what? I didn't believe it. I didn't believe that that was the case. It is the case that you can't. Right. Right.

Well, I'm like, okay. Well, I don't have to. I what I can do is not pay her. I'm not going to know he's going to pay her anymore. I'm not going to come in this form and have her. I can fire her. I don't care. Yes, I can. I can. I can decide. But no, she's not going to get paid anymore. She's not my lawyer. Forget it. And he goes, Mr. Bicklema, I'm going to step out for 10 minutes. And I'm going to let you work this out. You two work this out. And I'm going to come back in. We're going to get this all straight. I'm like, don't even bother. Don't even bother. I'm not. I'm not doing it. And, man, they all threw up their hands. Oh, forget it, man, whatever, you know. And she just could, this woman couldn't believe either. And I remember, I get up and I go and I'm like, oh, my God, how am I going to explain this to my sister?

My sister has no real clue what's going on. But she just dumped the boatload of money on this logger. And I remember I had to, I'm like, oh, my God, I better tell her. I got to tell her before she tells her, the lawyer tells her. Yeah, she's going to make it much worse. Yes, and she did. Of course, I wasn't fast enough. By the time I'll never forget my sister.

going, you fucking fired that lady? I said, yeah, but listen, listen to what she did. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to fucking hear it. You know, that's it.

Everybody's done with me now. You know, they're just disgusted that, but the truth was, look, she really did do that. She wasn't going to ask her bond, nothing. And so, oh, the lawyer before I left court, he goes, he goes,

okay, all right, you want to, you want to fire her? That's, that's right. You can, you can not pay her, and that's what you can do. But I'll tell you what. I'm going to do. I'll tell you what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you back so-and-so. The blogger and I said, yeah, I don't think he's going to do it. I don't think

he's going to do it. He goes, yeah, I wish I had the transcripts. I tried to get him. He goes, yeah, well, we'll see about that, Mr. Bicklemyer. We'll see about that. And I said, I guess we will. I guess we will. He goes, we'll be back here. He's not going to spank me. He gives me another month. We'll be back here in another month or whatever. So, oops, I got to get, now I really got to get rid of this log. I can't have him. And he's got to be the last one on the list. Who else is the old man? This is the old man, right?

No, no. The older drunk, the drunk guy. The drunk guy's already gone. John's on those cases, okay? Those are the misdemeanor cases. These are the felony situations. And this guy was, he was, he was a little bit older than me, but he wasn't, he was no, he was not incompetent.

The guy was, you could tell he could be a good lawyer if you wanted to me. You know what I mean? But he just, I wasn't willing to, I don't know why they, he wasn't willing to do it. But it didn't matter. He might have been okay, but by this time I had in my head that I had to have John on these cases because he's the only one I understood the whole situation. And the judge knew it too. The judge knew.

I think he might even said, I know, I know what you're trying to do. I'm not an idiot. I've been around for a long time. I know I can see what you're trying to do. And I'm not going to do it. I'm going to give you so-and-so back. And I said, well, he's not going to do it. He's not, I promise you he will not, he won't take the case.

Oh, we'll see about that. And so I didn't know, but I had an idea what I was going to do about this other lawyer. I'm like, I think what I'll do. is I'll just write in this real obnoxiously rude letter and as obnoxious and rude and and just talk a bunch of crazy shit in a letter and send it to the guy and I did it and it worked man I so the guy gets this letter and he's so insulted by everything I said he just decides he doesn't want to take the case he's sick at me anyway and um so a month goes by we come back this is when it's kind of funny we go back into court and it was

the scheduled court date, but I knew the, I knew the, I knew the stuff I sat at my head. I was pretty sure he wasn't after that letter I wrote that he wouldn't represent me anymore. And I knew the judge would be pissed. I knew he was going to be madder than hell and it happened. And I thought, well, they might be able to do something, but odds are, they're just going to,

they're just going to give in. It's been so long, they're going to give in me John, or they won't, maybe they won't have a choice, you know. And I walked in the courtroom, you know, you're all shackled up. And I walked in the courtroom and I looked over and there was old John sitting there in the chair, uh, like this with this head between his hands like oh my god he was so mad and pissed about

that this what was going on in the situation and i swear he was crying i was crying about it like and then i was laughing i'm like yes i know it worked why would he be in this courtroom if this didn't work and i sit down and the and the judge he leans back and he says oh mr bicklemyer last time we were in court uh you told me that that uh you fired your lawyer you fired your paid lawyer and uh And I'm going to give you, I tried to give you back so and so. And you told me I couldn't do that. You told me that he wouldn't do it. And there wasn't nothing I could do about it.

And he said, and you're right. There wasn't. You win. You win. And I know what you're doing. I know that you want John on this case. And, um, and, yeah, uh, my hands are tied now. You, you, you got it.

You're, I'm going to give you, John. He's not, now he's your lawyer on your, on these felony charges. And he goes, there's only one problem. We got a little problem. And I was like, oh, what is it? What could the problem be? And he says, John can't do it until May. This is like, dude, it's like four or five months later.

I can't remember when this was a long time. It was four months later from so I think back. By that point, you'll have been in prison for a year. Almost a year. I would have been in prison. Yes, by that time, it would have been a year. It was, I got arrested on June 23rd or something. And by this time, yeah, if the time would have went by,

that he tried to set aside I would have been in there a year so he thought he got me on now the judge thought like that you think you're smart but John has a problem, can't do it until May and I turned around and looked at him he's over there and I said

that's okay, that's okay I'll wait and by this time I'm feeling good I'm getting better anymore I really don't care and man I'm not kidding it wasn't listen I looked over at him and he's oh he's mad at me for what i did anyways and he looks up and he goes he says or call me or whatever

you know so i'm laughing at him on the way out of the courtroom and i went downstairs and the first thing i did was call him and he said yeah i know uh-huh yeah i'll be up there to see i'll come up to see we'll talk about it on the phone i'll talk to you in the jail i said when can you be here you know the judge said you couldn't do it and he goes i don't know i can do it i can do it i can do it right now. Like, oh, you can get on the case right now? Yes. Yeah, I can't. I said, okay, cool, man. I'll see you. I knew, I don't know what they were trying to do. I think they, maybe they told John, hey, man, we're going to give it, but don't take it until mayor or something, you know, do some scheduling stuff. Yeah, there's no hurry. Yeah, no hurry. But he was to him, but now, now he's my

lawyer on this case. And for whatever reason, he really does care. He does care that I'm in jail. I mean, he's, and he's my lawyer. So he comes to see me in the jail. And dude, I thought he was on Xanax or he can you know you're talking through the glass on them fucking silly phones I come down I was excited this time I knew what the call was about they're like they call you to come down you got to visit and come down he's not even in the lawyer room where they you know where you can actually talk to your lawyer and have contact with you if you wanted to they usually put you in a little room well he was in the glass because I think because somebody else is in that room so I walk all the way to the end and I there he is sitting there like this

like just just not excited at all about this case and that he I pick up the phone I'm like hey dude what's going on hey how's it going I mean he's like yeah all right all right you know here's what here's what I want to do is what he says he says listen I don't know what what you think I can do on this guy I don't I know the old guy I know everything about I just don't think I don't think I don't what you think I can do. And he goes, but I'll do whatever you want me to do. You tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it. But listen, if you go to prison, that's on you. That's your own problem. And I said, listen, I'll go to prison. I don't care. We're fighting it all the way. I don't. I do. And by this time, I really didn't care. I was starting to feel

better. And I'm like, hey, man, I got nothing to lose. I don't really care. It's only a couple years. What's the difference between now and a couple years from now? If something happened and I really did go to prison. You've already done. You'll already done. You'll already done. like what eight months at this point i mean eight months at this point okay this whole thing goes through it'll be almost a year i mean you'll have a fucking year on in on what a stupid fucking burglary charge let that's probably gonna give you time served yes right so he says okay i think he even told me it was at that time he goes he goes you know that uh you know who i am and and and i'll do what i can and i say yeah i know i know you

well and you understand the whole dynamic of this whole thing he goes all right well what do you want me to do what do you want me to do smart ass you know this way he's acting to me i said well here okay here's all i want you to do man is ask for a bail reduction he goes okay all right i'll do it and i said can you get me a bail hearing yeah i can get a bail hearing i said okay well listen i tell him the whole story about the last time i'm like listen man i was in court and and this is what the dude said he was yeah you know he's like i don't think he's too happy with you you know so i don't know i said man come on just get me the hearing that's all i want you to do really is to try want somebody to fucking try get me out of jail you bastards and uh dude it was like two days later

man two days later i'm on the docket all of a sudden two days dude two or three days later and i've been in this jail for eight months thinking i'm never getting out by this time and i didn't even care but i get john on the case like i've been thinking the whole time i'll be out of here a couple days go by and he's got me on the docket again for a hearing already it's only been a couple days maybe the next day i mean it was fast bam and uh they call you down there and you're all you're with everybody else and they put you in the they put you in this little room where there's a window where you can talk to the your your lawyer and remember he's a public defender now even at this son you know he's he's he's a public defender for a bunch of people in

jail and he i found out later he runs his own private practice i didn't know that was the case or else I would have just hired him. Now, he knows that I hired that woman, too, and he knows I fired her. And I think he knows why, too. And come to find out, well, I'll tell you later, he, so anyway, I go down there and I see him in the other room, and he's like, come on in. And so the guards let me in that room and I said in it. And he goes, he goes, dude, you're not going to fucking believe this.

And I go, oh, I bet I'm going to believe it. I bet I'm going to believe it. he goes he goes they're gonna fucking let you out of here and i said oh yeah we he's like today you right now i said no shit what you do he goes well here's the deal you got it he goes they're they're mad because they think you won't loosen up a little bit you that you're just going to make a big mockery out of this whole you know it's going to be a mess they're just they're just they're just worried that you're just it's just going to be a big problem and i said like what like what like i want to go to trial or whatever it was i mean you know what what's the big

deal. He was, we just got to show, you know, I mean, isn't there something, I mean, like I said, what do you want? He goes, can you, can you plead guilty to one of the misdemeanor charges? I said, okay, what misdemeanor charge? He goes, I got telephone harassment. And you take a telephone harassment charge. I'm like, sold, man, sold. Give me the fucking paper. He goes, okay, all right, I'll see you when you get out. What were the, what were they basing the telephone harassment on? Nothing. It was just, they just made it up because all the other misdemeanor charges, like there was some breaking and restraining orders. Oh, no, there was some telephone harassment on my fire calling, calling my in-laws when I was out, bitching and screaming and calling people, just being an idiot. Just being an idiot, okay? Wasn't it a charge? I don't know, but they made it into a charge, which whatever, dude, I don't care. And so he's, I think what he did was he goes, listen, let's just close out all this other misdemeanor stuff, plead guilty of this telephone. harassment just like a no insurance ticket he said it's no big deal it's nothing i'm like oh what's the punishment no it's a misdemeanor he goes i don't even think it came with any probation yeah it did actually

but it was only like six months i'm like six months probation too i've done deal you know he goes all right and and he goes what are we going to do after that and i said oh no let's just not worry about we're and i kind of told him anyways i'm like my little strategy and he goes okay you know know he's like whatever it's your life you know i everybody i said i'm going to go to prison do the time whatever i'm not not not given up i'm not i'm not going to fight this all the way to the now he's like yeah i've heard that a thousand times you know what i mean i ain't that's what everybody says until it comes right now to it and then and then they're going to sign anything i'm like that's not going to happen dude i'm telling you right now i'm not doing that so you know

you're going to have to fight he's like i will i'll do i don't care i'll go to trial i like trial i don't care he's been a prosecutor in this town everything you know he didn't care he was scared of it at all I think he wanted to do it. Probably just see me put in prison or something. Anyway, he gets me out of jail, man. That day, I go down there and they're like, they dropped the bond from $150,000 to nothing, to nothing, zero, sign your name here.

And all they said in the trial was, the judge was like a whole new person. He says, you know, Mr. McIreiber, you've been in there for a long time. This is true, too. He said, and I've been a judge for a long time, and I know that I can tell, I can see drug acts when I,

And I know when I see them, and it usually takes about five months for them to start really coming around, you know, coming around and getting their head on their shoulders or whatever. And it's been six months. And I can see that, you know, you seem a lot better and a lot. I'm just going to let you go. I just couldn't believe it. $150,000 or nothing. Okay, out. And so, man, they, they, I'm like, I can't believe it.

I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to let me go. I still have the felony charges now, remember. And I go down and never tell people in jail you're going home either. they're idiots people are so they're so jealous and and you know i went down in the pot and i'm like dude i got a fucking bond and then some of the some of the uh you know the idiots and oh yeah you rat it on somebody like rat on who there's no you rat on in my case there's no there's no you know what i mean you know the people in jail was man yeah digging through your i got a subpoena while i was in jail and some people in the pot were like oh look big o myers name's on a subpoena i'm like i can't

help it if i got subpoena in jail i'm not a rat i'm not a rat You know, what am I going to do? They split a subpoena under my door at 3 a.m. You don't know, I can't do anything about that. So anyway, you know, they're being idiots in the jail about me getting it. They're just jealous that I got out. But it's, it was in March. It was on March the 3rd.

Man, I'll never forget that. So, and it, I'm like, I wonder what it's like outside because nobody knows I'm leaving this jail. The only person that even cared that I was in jail was my sister, my older sister, Amy. She was, you know, she was putting money on my book. books and on my telephone, you know, and I had some money, but what happened was, if you remember, I got fired from my job right before I went to jail. It was like two days before that. And I told her, hey, go, go to my job and get my last paycheck and stuff, you know. It was, it was, they owed me a couple thousand dollars or something. And she went and got it. They gave it to her. They

were concerned. They were like, is he okay? What's going on? You know, they were. And they gave her the check and they even let her, I never even signed it. Somehow she cashed the check. I think they wrote it to her actually they wrote the check to my sister or something and uh she took the she might have just she could have probably just endorsed your name on yeah yeah yeah put it put in her bank it was a small check yeah anyway so that's how i had money the whole time but it ran out of course because i was talking on the phone but she was putting money on her and my mom and um so but nobody knows i'm getting out of jail nobody expects me to be getting out of jail i didn't expect really expect it i i knew that once john was on this case uh that that things would start working there you working out you know

And that's what I mean, what I was saying about public defenders. Every time I watch your show, people are always bashing them. I'm like, well, they're not all like that. And this guy's one of them. And he was proud of it, too. He would say, you know, I'm not like, I'll actually do. I'm not like all the other public defenders. I'm like, yeah, I know.

I know. I know all these people in jail that have had you all these cases. I know who you are. That's why I wanted you on the case. So he gets me out of jail. But they kick you out with nothing. I had just some shoes, some blue jeans, and a shirt. and that's it man a bag of you know they i gave everything away i was going to keep my jail clothes i give all the uh everything i had i gave to the people in the pod that i liked like my celly or whatever which was a bunch of you know notebooks and you know you gather some stuff in jail after eight months and they all wanted they'll fight over a bowl or a cup and uh i gave all that step away so i left with nothing like a little bag or something i was leaving the court leaving the jail and there was a lady leaving at the exact same time they literally let us out of jail at the exact same time they didn't open the door once closed it and then let her out they let us out at the same time they went the door let her out and i've never seen met this one before in my life never seen her heard of her nothing and and we're they let you out of jail and the instructions where you listen go talk now now i was i was on probation from the uh for the misdemeanor uh terroristic phone call or whatever whatever the case was so i had to say okay we're going to let you out of jail but you're you're all right you're

on bond release basically it was the signature bond but you're you're on bond release is what they call it so it's basically super supervised probation i had to go back every week and and on wednesday and take a drug test at drug and alcohol test this time i wasn't worried about i wasn't on drugs anymore i wasn't and i wasn't planning on it either i'm like and that's it for that i'm down i feel better um you know oh man what a relief i felt great i never felt better in my life i remember when i was leaving, I thought, how am I going to get home? How are I going to get back to my house? I'm like, I don't care. I'll walk. I don't care. It's like, what, tell 30 miles? It's not that far, 50 miles, not even 50, probably. I could have walked home. And that's what I was going to do. I'm

like, I'll just walk home. Let's hitchhack home. I'll get back to, you know. And so I get out and they let me out this woman. And she starts, she asks me, oh, wow, how long have you been in jail? I'm like, man, I was in there for eight months. Wow, that's a long time. How are you going to get home? I'm like, I don't know she goes what do you what do you need anything he wants some cigarettes or something i was like i don't i don't i'm not going to smoke i'm not going to smoke and she goes oh do you need a ride i'm like yeah i do i need a ride to a phone can you give me a ride to the like a down to the walmart or something so i can just use the telephone sure you know and she goes i got to go see my probation officer me too that's where i'm going so we get in the probation office and we're just talking

simply talking about our plans after we have to look she's going to take me down to the dollar store or Walmart and the probation the head of the probation officer hears this whole thing going on and a condition of the bonds that you don't talk to any other felons or have anything to do with them. Right.

But she's, this woman's a felon and I'm in the probation officer with talking to her and she starts trying to get me a re-arrested right there for talking to this lady. She's throwing a fit. This woman is throwing a fucking fit in a probation office and I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

What is going on? What are you talking about? I've been in jail for eight months. what are you talking about she said who your probation officer i was like laura i knew her real well and she goes she runs and goes gets her and tells her the whole story like rats me out he's out there's talking to felons i like what i can't do she has to go to the probation officer too there's nothing i can do about it and so i'm in the middle of an argument right after i get out of jail was all in a good mood i'm in the middle of the giant argument and my sister walks in the door walks in the door i haven't even been on a jail for 45 minutes my sister walks in the door

like hey what hey what's going on damn you know and she goes what's going on here. I said nothing, nothing. You know, I'm just, and it was so I'm like, hold on, let me talk to Laura. So I talked to my probation office. I'm like, man, listen, I told her the whole story. She goes, who cares? What's the big deal? What's the problem? I said, I don't know. It's not my problem. It's just a woman's your boss's problem. And so she goes, don't worry about it. Just don't talk to each other. You're not supposed to talk to you. You got a ride. I'm like, okay, see it. You know? And my, but my sister's mad. She thinks that I'm still, I hadn't learned anything. I hadn't I haven't been in jail over eight months. I hadn't learned nothing. I get out in an argument with my probation officer, you know.

So she's mad doesn't talk to me all the way home, takes me home, drops me off at my mom's house. But I'm happy. I'm like, God, oh, man, I'm out of jail. I had all these plans, you know, you got eight months to think about what you're going to do. What am I going to do when I get out of jail? And I did think, I think what I'm going to do, I think what I better do when I get out of jail is not do anything. I don't think I'm going to talk to anybody or contact anybody or I think I'm going to just get my head together. take a month or so, you know, exercise and, you know, get my shit straight, forgot what I'm going to do. And so I did that.

I didn't tell you that last time. I waited a month, I think. I was like, I'm going to give it a month, you know, before I really do anything. I don't really care. I wasn't, but it changes the whole way you think once you've been to jail, you know how it is, especially you, you're not as afraid anymore of what you were afraid of before. You know what I mean? You already lost everything.

There's no, there's no way to go any further down. Who cares? I'm not. I mean, it was a, in a way, it was a good experience. I learned a lot from and it. The whole time in jail wasn't exactly miserable. Like you, it was horrible at first, but by the end, I'm laughing and playing chess and, you know, having, having, it wasn't that. I had some great times in jail. It was, it was few and far between, but it was fun at times, you know, especially when the par would get full of fun people and we're playing chess every day all day long. And it wasn't that bad. By the end, you know, I wasn't sick anymore. So anyways, I get out and, I decided I'm not going to do anything for a month,

but I still got to fight this effing case. I got to get back up with the court every week. And that went off for a long time. So I'm in the middle of case, and my lawyer eventually contacts me, hey, man, what are we going to do about this case? And I'm like,

well, I think by this, the misdemeanor stuff was all done. Well, that's all done. So I don't have to worry about that anymore. But he goes, what are we going to do about the felonies?

What's your idea? What do you think? And I said, let's just, how much, can you get me need some more time. Let's need some more time. Let's,

media and he says well how much more time it's been a long time it's already been almost a year since you you're in jail for almost you all know how much more time I can get you I'm like yes you can you can do it you can do anything man and he says uh okay I know I can get it I know I can get a

I know I can get a couple more extension I'm like man let's just drag it out let's just see how long we can drag it out I mean it could be years we could drag it out for years right he's like eh you know not for years But, you know, a year is plenty, but dude, he did.

He kept getting extension after extension after extension. And he's like, what's it going to matter? Why do you want? And I'm like, I don't know, you know, everybody calms down. The witnesses is the main thing. Everybody calms down. Everybody's not so mad anymore. They're not so excited about being witnesses after they see that I'm not insane anymore.

You know what I mean? And they're going to want me, they're going to change their mind about this, you know, about pursuing this case because it really did depend on the witnesses. The witnesses, absolutely right. Yes. And I'm related to the witnesses

and these eight months had gone by. They don't want to go to court and deal with this BS. You know what I mean? They just don't want to do it. And so I'm telling him this. And he's like, yeah, I say, can you, is it ethical

for you to get a hold of him for you to talk to him? And I think he said he could, but he didn't know if it was a good idea or something. I'm like, why don't you just feel out. See what they're going to, you know, see how they feel about this. And I don't know if he did or not, but he kept extending it, right? Well, he just kept extending it and extending it. And, you know, months and months go by. I remember I was work. I was all back to normal working. Everything was fine. And now I'm really scared to get the felony now. It was even worse. I really

didn't want the felony. Bad. And he finally, he calls me one day and he says, hey, man, I've been thinking about that case. And, you know, I listen to all your jail calls. you know for the that piece of their evidence was on my jail phone calls let me just put it that way I had I was talking to somebody and they thought they didn't need the witnesses anymore they were going to use the jail calls that was their main piece of evidence that was that that that was that that that they had even if the witnesses weren't there the jail phone calls us and uh so he was trying to find a way around that and he says I think I found a way around that one he said there's like 80 people on your phone did you know that and I said well yeah knew it i've been selling my phone time for uh uh soups and whatever you know how you do in jail they want they they want to talk on the phone and uh and you give them a soup and you give them or they give you a few minutes they can call her wife or girlfriend or whatever so there's a bunch of people on the phone bunch of people and he goes i don't think they're kind of i was i don't know if everybody understand you you only get like how many minutes do you get in there 300

what total yeah per month oh no there was no there was no limit it was a it was limited unlimited it was how much you can afford oh yeah you can talk as much you want it's but it was expensive you know it's like 50 cents a minute or some some ridiculous amount of money i think i spent a thousand dollars in only eight months you know like it's that i know it's like a thousand bucks so uh you know it's more when you're in jail it's more important it's on the phone than it is to eat really you know right so there's all these people using your phone yes all these people using my phone and he says i don't think they're going to want to go through all the trouble to figure out who's you i think i can throw up uh kick up some dust about that and he

didn't say he thought he could beat the case with that he said i think i can get extensions based on that because if they have to go back and uh and try to figure out who's you who's who's who on the phone i know it's going to take them a long time and i know it's expensive or whatever and i know that we can drag this out for quite a while based on that i'm like man that's fantastic dude that's great idea man do that you know he says okay i'll do it and then he doesn't it and man i don't even think a month went by and he calls you back he goes oh man listen to this they're gonna they're gonna he filed a motion about their phone calls or something he goes they're they're they're just done with the whole thing they just they're sick of it they're

they're they're ready to i got you a uh uh i think i had to plead guilty to another misdemeanor charge or something maybe not though i can't remember they might have dropped it just outright dropped it but uh they did they dropped all the felony get all the felony stuff down to less than what at least to miss me know the only thing i know that i've been convicted of for real is the worst thing i've ever been convicted of is telephone harassment that's the worst thing on the on the thanks i i think they just outright dropped the whole entire thing they just said forget it but i was still on probation for a while after that so i'm not sure uh how you know but it did he did get it dropped you know what i mean and uh so that's

what i mean by not all lawyers are like that this guy would say uh he was going to get me out And I knew I wasn't going to go to prison once I got the guy on my case, you know. Nobody's going to prison with him on their case. It didn't seem like it. Now, he, I'm sure people have, but he's beaten some major cases, you know. The guy's really a good guy. He knows right outside of town. He's got a wife from kids and his wife's a prosecutor.

And he's just worried about his reputation, I think maybe because he had his own practice, too. You know, since he has his own practice, he doesn't want to look like he's winning cases, I suppose. That's why he did it. you know but he did he worked as hard as he could and he beat him all so that's why i get so irritated about the uh people saying that about and there are other other um people on cases that uh other people that i've heard of like that i had another guy that was uh i got a uh traffic ticket in this town i live in and uh i didn't want to pay it and i was mad about the ticket and it'd been it'd been a long time and i mean a long time i didn't fight this case this stupid

ticket case i just didn't want to pay it so i keep going back and i keep fighting fighting and fighting and And this judge goes, that's it. I've had it. You're going to jail. And I was like, oh, uh-oh. I didn't think that was going to happen. And he says, well, he couldn't sense me to joke because I didn't have a lawyer. And he's like, you know, so he had to appoint me a lawyer.

He's like, I'm going to, what I'm going to do is I'm going to appoint you a lawyer. And then I'm going to put you in jail. I'm like, okay. Well, that'll give me at least 30 days or whatever. It's like, you know, then I'll straighten it out. What I'll do is I'll just, I'll get the other lawyer, wait until the last minute and pay the fines. I'm not going to jail or a student. traffic ticket but so the

I call the lawyer on this case and he goes he goes he called me he called me on the phone and he goes he goes Mr. Briclemyer what the hell's going on out there and I said what what are you talking about you know he tells me his name and he goes he goes what's going on this judge calling he's all

pissed off about and I said yeah fuck him and he goes yeah fuck him you ain't going to jail shit fuck that guy who does he think he is he's going off back you know what I mean his name was that I could say his name His name was Sanchez. I think it was his last name, Sanchez.

And I said, yeah, that's right. Fuck them. And he goes, he goes, you ain't going to jail. And you ain't paying them fines either. They don't have any evidence. It's blah, blah, right? You know, so I go back to court with that guy, and he starts kicking up dust about this case. And I'm laughing because he can't, by this time, the judge can't put me in jail for something that he'd come up with, you know?

And we're fighting this case. It went on for years of a traffic ticket case, man. It was like four or five traffic tickets. So it went on for a year or two, man, a long time. And right in the middle of us Fight this stupid tragedy case the guy died The guy just died Yes

My lawyer died I'm like oh my god Now what? You know now what am I gonna do He was he was a fighter too man This guy was willing to sacrifice his own life man He was trying to jump in front of bolts for him He did over a traffic ticket He hated the judge

He was going off about how bad he hated this judge And so but he died so he's the last He was one of the last ones you know, all the other ones, the one I hired. Now listen to this story about that. So here's what happened with that, the woman,

okay? Come to find out, John, when he found out that I hired that woman, that's when he kind of, I knew that it kind of motivated him. He was sort of in,

I think he was offended by that, or not offended, but like, oh, man, you should have gave me that money. I could have, you know, and he goes to that.

And he said, and I know her really well. It was his boss. It was his old boss from them. Or I think it was either his boss or he was her boss when he was a prosecutor. And he knew her real well and did not like her and didn't like the law firm that she worked for. Sorry about that. He didn't like them.

For whatever reason, he in the law firm, when I got out of y'all, I think I told you, I called him and told him what was happening. I talked to her boss. And he said, what's going? You know, he was interested. He was like, what's going on? What are you so upset about? what happened in that case i said i he listened the whole thing it took like two hours too i explained it to him he goes he said wow that's that's that's really something that um who's your lawyer

and i said john brian and he goes he goes oh well that's good that's good that happened and i said yeah it's really good it is isn't it why couldn't what why did your your lawyer come in there not do that he's like you know i really don't know but but here's here's what i do know she was there to get you out of jail and she was there to not get you convicted of a felony and I said yeah well that's not what she did she did not do that

and and and she certainly she wouldn't even ask for bond I told him the whole story and he goes he said yeah well if it's if you can beat that case if John beats that case and you come out of it without a felony I'll give you your money back I said well okay it's not my money

anyway you have to give it back to my sister but yeah that's a deal you know because i think he is going to beat the case for one i just he's i think he can and i certainly know this he got out of jail in three days okay and this idiot couldn't get me out of jail we paid all that or my sister paid all that money to this woman who couldn't get me out of jail who wouldn't even try wouldn't even ask her bond he didn't believe it he the this her boss didn't believe that she did that and and and my sister told me that when she hired you know after i get out job start finding out the whole story and she said yeah when i when i hired when i called that law firm

they said, hey, we got just the person for that case. She used to be a prosecutor in that county. She knows everybody in that county. Blah, blah, blah, blah. She can do anything, you know. And it turns out, I think really what happened was that she was very connected to that county. She knew John. John had her and worked together or something.

Like I said, she was his boss or he was her boss. And I think the prosecutor, I think she talked to this lawyer and was like, no, I don't think you understand. case he's an asshole and all this and we're not we're not we i don't think you should let him do this and do i think she told i think they just you know i think that the prosecutor talked her out of it's what i think i think that's and i think that's and i think they made a personal agreement and i also think now i asked my sister this later i said did you do that did you i think maybe when she hired this lawyer she might have said something like this listen here's the case my brother's in jail and uh he he's facing a felony he doesn't want to take it but i think that's

I think I just want him out of jail. Just get him out of jail. He's better now. You know, he sounds better. Let's just get him out of jail. Do whatever he can't. She might have said that. You know what I mean?

So it's maybe not fair to come down on this woman that hard because maybe that's what. But she, uh, my sister hired her, but yeah, maybe. But that's it. She works for me. And I have that argument with that law with the woman personally. I said, she might have hired you. And she might have said something or whatever she said. But the fact is you work, you do work for me.

You, you know, she's not in the case. you know and i appreciate everything she did but she's not part of this case yeah you know she she acted like she was going to fight she was going to take it to trial she took notes for hours she was going to just fight tooth and nail to beat this and then wouldn't ask for that was it was the most ridiculous thing i'm i tried to get the court transcripts just to show you how ridiculous it was like the prosecutor asking for the to for the judge to throw out the not guilty plea i mean who does that who who has the nerve to stand up there in front of a judge to say that and for my lawyer not to

object and for the judge not to say how ridiculous that was you know he did say when you go along with it but he didn't he didn't uh admonish the lawyer or anything for asking for some that ridiculous you know so anyway i found out that i found out a bunch of stuff about that later about and then john i remember see i kept talking to him after this case we got we we got along real well and he liked to uh he likes to play chess and we play a chess on our phones all the time and so i mean i'm always talking to him asking him you know just talking just being in front with them and um so over the years i got to find out a bunch of stuff about this and it was funny right before you called me a couple days before that he goes man you know what you should write that

story down about all that stupid shit you did to get uh to get me on that case that was pretty that's a pretty good move you know i said yeah it's it is funny and it's interesting but i don't know if anybody really cared then like two days later and i'm like wow that's weird that's a weird coincidence that you know i mean it was a pretty great tactic that worked out really well and but it really wasn't totally my idea there were people in jail who were doing a similar thing but what they would do was just uh just fired their lawyer and to shoot from the head they didn't really have a plan they would just continue you know there were guys in jail man who i'm sure you've talked about this on you who would you i remember there was this this guy was in

jail with his name was turboed he was in my cell and you get to know him and he's i said so what are you going to do what what's your case all about he he dude he only had like a a a year and a half or two backup time like if worst case scenario if he fucks up as bad as he can he's going to go to do two years that's the worst thing it can happen right but the best thing it can happen is you can just be on probation and just walk it down on probation nope this ain't the only guy i meant like this he said nope i'm not doing that what i do is i get out and i don't even reinforce the probation officer i'm just on the run right from the word go and i just i'm on the run from the minute i get out of jail until they catch me again which could be two or three

years from now, and then I do another three months, and I just keep doing that until my time's done. And numerous people were doing that. I'm like, that's ridiculous, man. You want to be, I cannot, I couldn't drive down the road with the suspended driver's license. I'd be so scared. You know, I don't know how you did that all that time with the worried about, weren't you looking over your shoulder?

No. I mean, keep in mind, you can pull, I got tickets when I was on. Yeah, you said, you went to drive in school and everything. Yeah. I mean, they pulled me over and I'd say, here's my driver's license. Here. And, you know, of course, it's not. my driver's license. It's a, it's a driver's license in the name of some. Yeah, they don't know. Sure. Sure. But it's a real valid driver's license. Yeah, yes. I could see that, but I would still be nervous. I was, now I've always wondered about your case. What if they'd got your fingerprints? Because now they do, they can do that in a matter of minutes. Yeah, but you know, they can get your. Have you ever had a traffic stop where they did your fingerprints? No, but what if you got, what if you got booked or something? You know, you would have, they would have done your fingerprints there. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I

don't do drugs. I don't drink. I don't, you know, like I always have, I always have a, a driver's license, full coverage insurance. I mean, I don't get arrested. You know, I'm not the kind of guy that drives around. Yeah, you're not stealing from Walmart. Like, that's your career. Like, you know what I mean? I'm not driving around in a stolen car with a broken taillight and a body in the trunk. I'm in an idiot. If I get pulled over for a traffic ticket and I'm like, yeah, here's my driver's license. No problem. Like, I'm not. I got some serious questions about that too. And I watched your podcast. I watch a lot of them. And I got some serious questions about like, first of all about the thing about the federal, what they call trial tax, whatever, that guy on his channel talks about. And you guys have said it too. I've heard you say it. I think even maybe that federal what?

Okay, listen. They call it the trial tax. If you take a case to trial, then you won't, then you'll get sentenced to the entire amount. the time and that basically that the government's punishing you for not going to trial right well what they're saying is no we're just giving you the statutory max we were giving you a break for for for not forcing us to go to trial exactly go to trial and lose then you get what you should have gotten that's exactly what i'm saying and i said that to the prison consulting guy who you know he just went off about how that's not the case i'm against it is it is the case that they're giving you a break

for not going to trial they are not taxing you for going to trial that's ridiculous that's a lie and i i went i kept saying in his comments i'm like stop telling you you're you want to be this mr honest consulting guy and you're up i hope you air this part of it so he sees it idiot uh and he i know you know him because you had his boss on one of your podcast you had his partner okay his he uh i think his last name is Santos, the guy's partner, the guy's, uh, yes, you know what I'm talking about? That's the guy. Okay. So I didn't know he had a partner, but okay. Yeah. Yes. Uh, he has a guy who, who they're in business together or something. It's like a, yeah. And that's who I argue with that about. He, and he's just, he's just, uh, dug his hills in on that one. He's not

given in at all. I'm like, but you're lying, dude. You're lying about that. It's not the case at all. And it's not the case that, uh, that public, that public defenders are, are all bad people. It's the, the case is really that if you need a public defendant or defender, the odds are that you're a shitty defendant who has a horrible record and you don't have any money. Who, who, who doesn't have enough money to hire their own lawyer? Junkies and, and, and criminals, man, people that steal and lie and cheat and they got records and they got, they got, they got cases that are unbeatable. You know what I mean? Now, if you have an unbeatable case, I don't care if you're, it's not like O.J. Simpson, that's not the case. That does not happen. I mean, that happened to him because it was a fluke, but really that wasn't, really that was a political thing. Not even, you know, it wasn't even like his lawyers did such a great job. It was just that, you know, it was in the media. It was a circus. The whole thing was a circus. But generally, that's not the case. People that need public defenders are, are, are lunatic. You know, they're, and they, and they, and they, and they have enough evidence and what's the law you're supposed to do they're really their job is to get

you the least amount of time they can get you you know it's not really to beat the case i don't think that's their objective and nor should it be the case should be that that they're trying to minimize your sentence and if they're trying to do you a plea that's what they're doing they're trying to minimize your sentence they can't take people talk about going to trial but you don't really want to do that even especially even in a mistake case you don't want to they got mountains of evidence against you and you have it in your head that if you have an expensive lawyer you're going to win it's not the case it's just not they got too much evidence you're not going to win whether it's you know whatever the case is right so not all the public defenders are all that bad

you hear people talk about that all the time but they exaggerated i think i think it's grossly exaggerated about about lawyers i mean your your public defenders didn't sound that great except for john that's right john but but that's true but keep in mind the woman want well i want at trial, but she did win it. She did go through with it and do it. And the other people, they weren't, they weren't trying to fight, but they weren't trying to minimize

the sentence, I guess, by you know, the one guy was saying he could give me out of jail if I just played guilty to, it had to be a felony, but he had a lesson. I mean, yes, granted, he wasn't working that hard, but he didn't have a whole lot to work with either. I don't, he didn't have the kinds of things to work with.

I don't think that, that's the other guy that John did. You know what I mean? I don't think and they certainly weren't motivated i think john had some kind of an issue i've i've asked him in the meantime but he there's only so much you can say i've asked him what his problem was with the judge i thought the judge in my case was really fair throughout the entire thing and it took this whole thing took years took two or three years to go through and i've seen that judge 50 times and he was fair he was not unreasonable i didn't think in any uh i've never i've never been since to a day in jail i've done almost a year of time but i've never been sentenced

He never sent me to jail. You never, you know, I didn't think he was all about it. God, but this dude did not like the guy. And he didn't want to lose in his courtroom. And I think he just, I don't know. I don't know what motivated him versus what motivated the other people. Because I think they also had their own firms. You know, surely they do.

You can't make it a live in. Yeah, well, they're, they're, oh, God, what they call them? JCA lawyers or something like JC. I forget, somebody will tell me. They're, they're basically, they're not public. defenders they're assigned the case and they all get yeah they all have to do that in fact in order to be a licensed in the state of kansas i think you have to do some of that every lawyer no matter who they are if they're if they're licensed to practice in that court they have to

do x amount of time as a way they're paid yeah they get paid yeah they get paid and that's pro bono work sure right i even told john when i got i was so grateful i was like well i mean i could give you some money i could do something you know i could repay you somehow but he said nah he wouldn't he wasn't gonna you know he could if he just said hey man you want me five grand i said okay i'll work something out i'll pay his life he's not care he can't he can't he can't accept any money he no sure he can't but you could hire him for another case and overpay now now now he went off and uh became a judge but he had another case dude this to this where it is a case in kansas where this guy killed uh this girl

uh that i was really good friends with in high school he killed her mom he murdered her for he was in my opinion it was first degree murder well john was on this guy's case and uh and so throughout the whole case he can't say much about it he can't talk you know he can't give you details about it but he was acting like he was gonna beat this case i'm like dude there's no fucking way you're i mean i've seen some of the evidence there's no way you're beat that case right well he did pretty much wind up he he listen that guy got out of jail on time served i'll tell you that john was his lawyer in the middle of the case and then he got promoted to being a judge and but i think john had the old case worked out uh um before that and then

he just took because i asked him i'm like man what what happened so so you got promoted and now you can't be the guy's lawyer i imagine he's upset about that and he said yeah but he's got this he's got another lawyer we all sat down and figured out what we're going to do and he did get the guy out of jail he walked out of 11th county jail but no listen he uh and he walked out with time served imagine that on a on a i don't i think it started his first degree murder then went to second degree murder and then uh uh uh john's idea i think was to get the guy off on manslaughter and time served uh second degree manslaughter or something and they did that the guy but he did four and a half or five years in levelworth county jail in the jail where it sucks that's the

worst dude listen that's horrific i i think what happened was i really think what happened was they were like dude that's enough i mean five years in jail that's like 50 in prison i would imagine i mean at least i've heard people talk about prisons everybody in jails like they couldn't wait to get to prison yeah you know everybody man was thinking have some freedom and yeah people said people were constantly man i just want to get sentenced to go to prison it was like yeah i would think you would want to stay away from prison and they were like bro are you nuts listen exactly right they were like let me explain something they were like i'm going to hit the fucking compound i'm going to have an ice cream within a couple of hours.

I'm going to have chips. I'm going to have coffee. Shoes. I'm going to be able to walk. I'm going to have shoes. I'm going to be able to walk the compound. I'm going to have a radio that works. An MP3 player.

I'm going to like, you know, it was just like, are you joking? Like, and they're like, yeah, I'll be able to play racquetball by tomorrow. I'll, and you were like, well, here's the thing. They would all, they would all bitch about the fact that they had to go to what's called R to you. I don't know what it stands for. But they have to go. to uh you must have to uh you must have to uh what's it called r and d oh oh no you're talking about going through the processing center you that's a state thing yeah yeah it must be state well

they didn't none of them like that because they had to be in a cell with another guy for 30 days without leaving or whatever they're in there and they categorize them and then yes categorized that's right that's right that's all done by the probation officer and the bob like they automatically do it so as soon as you're well that part's over by the time you get sentenced? By time you get a pre-sentence report. And when you're sentenced, they send that to, they send that to, oh, God, Grand Prairie. And they automatically calculate your level and what prison you're going to. And then they give you that assignment. And you sit in the Marshall's holdover. So you might get sentenced on a Monday. And then by Friday,

you might be on a bus. Typically, it takes a week or two. So you might sit in the same Same place you were before. You're in the marshal's holdover. You get sentenced. You go in on a Monday. You get sentenced. And then let's say within a week and a half, you're on a bus headed to your prison. Period.

Yeah. Speaking of that, I've heard of people talking about, and this guy that I was talking about, always I'm always, I was arguing with about the trial tax deal, the feds. He was talking about how people turn themselves in. I'm like, yeah, that is true. They turn themselves in there in the prison they were going to go to anyways. They know where to go. they send some of them go straight to camps and whatever yeah like the federal system that's what

always killed me is that you would like I remember one time this guy showed up for like it's like four o'clock count right like you're they they got to get him there but before four o'clock so he ends up being in like the um he's a white guy he was a doctor pulmonary uh specialist and he he walks into a cell you know whatever it was right right down from me and so afterward he like comes out and you see looking around like you can tell he's green as fuck and he walks and he's looking around and I'm like he's like uh well what's going on now and I said they're I said they're gonna call chow in a minute they'll they'll open the door and then we'll all go to chow so you just where's that I said just follow

everybody and I and we went and we went and we ate and I showed him go through the you know how you do it and everything well like afterwards we went we walk the track we're walking the track and as we're walking the track he's like i forget what he got six years or eight years or something and as we're walking the track he says yeah i know man like today i was this morning i was in we were eating at panera and and i'm like panera panera panera bread and he goes yeah and i went you turned yourself in you got an eight years ago and you turned yourself in and he was like oh yeah i've been on i've been out for like the last four months you're thinking about what you could have done you'd have been gone you'd have been in australia by that time

fuck bro i'm not turning myself in to go to prison for eight years yeah which brings me to a real serious question now listen i don't want to offend you and i'm not i'm not trying to offend you at all trust me and i understand you did 13 years in prison which is fucking serious shit but what and you talk all the time about how bad that was when you got sense how how about and i can imagine how that horrible that must have been especially with your mom being sick or whatever and uh but no let me ask you what what would have been an appropriate sentence for you do you think honestly what would it made you stop doing that what would it have taken for you to stop the 13 years did it like the 26 years

and the 13 that i did did it but yeah but you got since listen you got since the 26 years man you weren't in you you got since the 26 years and you thought you were going to do that time you thought you were doing that time and you know now for just from what happened with the with your lawyer and and and what was his name again uh right omadale yeah oh yeah that guy's not anyway you didn't know that though when you got sentenced so i imagine when you got sense to that 26 years in the in the time that you did between there and the time that you knew that you got your sense cut in half you thought you were going to do that 26 years and in that link the time you must have decided that hey that's enough i'm not doing it anymore it's not worth it i'm not going to risk it again But had you got sentenced to 13 years right out of the gate and only done seven. So I think that stopped you from doing that. I think an appropriate sentence for me at that time based on the fact that I had four indictments in four different jurisdictions. I had stole in excess of $15 million personally, not with code offense, just personally. Yeah, your own.

Right. I was on the run. so I think all of those things you know all the enhancements everything I think if they'd given me I don't mean that though I don't mean with it man that's what I'm saying well I'm asking you personally what you think was a sense that I'm giving you I'm giving you the answer yeah but you're telling me with enhancements and all I'm not I don't know but you have what you think they I mean you personally I'm saying if I was the judge and I was sitting there what would I have given me is what you're asking No, I'm asking you this.

What sentence would it have taken for you to have been serious enough about it to not ever do it again? That's what all they wanted you to do was to stop it, to stop doing the bank fraud. It's about punishment. But, okay, so I would have said 10 years. Here's why. Okay. Because the judge already in his mind, and when he says 10 years, he already knows, he's looking at 8.5. No, not five.

Not in the federal system. You're fucking kidding me. and the federal 13 on a 26 but you got left okay go ahead no so the judge would have said 10 years he's going to do get eight and a half because he's getting a year and a half off for good time he's going to get a year off for the drug program he's at seven and a half he's probably going to get close to a year um in a halfway house so he's going to do about six and a half to seven years if he behaves himself yeah no no problems that would have been enough for me to go I can't do it anymore.

To be honest, if he had given me probably five or six, if he'd given me five years, you have to understand, if he'd give me five years, mentally, I would have been out in, what, two years at that point?

Maybe even a year. If I'd go straight in the drug program, I would have been out in probably a year. So I did on two years on five. And I've seen people do that. Was it worth it? Would that, would that have stopped?

Would you, would that have changed your mind about that? No, no, I don't think so. I think at that point, I would have gone out how to say, I'd have said, fuck that.

If that's all. That's right. two years for what I did now I know what to do like I was just too fucking cocky that the truth is 10 years would have placed me in a spot where

you didn't think it was worth risking it it would have been my by that point I would have been in my my mid 40s yep I'd have been like like listen by the time you get to you'd have been thinking about it though eh you'd have been thinking about that

I don't know by the time Because listen, you got so close to getting away with that shit, dude. That's the most amazing part of that whole entire story. The difference is this. The difference is you get to your 40s, your body starts to hurt. You have to realize, I can't do this much longer. I know exactly what you mean. Exactly.

You start thinking, I mean, if you're smart, you start thinking physically and mentally, where am I going to be at 60? and how and and I need to prepare myself to be in a position where when I get to 65 and if I have to if I can maybe I can go to 66 or 67 but when I retire I need to have a place where that retirement check or that social security covers my bills yeah I have to have a paid off house cars right cars like all you start doing that and you go I don't legally I probably don't have enough time. Now, granted, everybody's like, oh, you're smart. You could do this. You can do that. I can't. They don't ever calculate the risk. The risk of me going out and buying

three houses, renovating those houses and selling those houses. They go, oh, yeah, you buy it, you renovate it. You sell it. You're going to make $40,000 on each fucking, like, listen, you've watched too much too much. Yeah, I know what you're saying. And listen, now, here's another question I've always wondered about your story, too, is why didn't you have some kind of, some kind of plan for going to prison. Why didn't you stash a couple million dollars in some safety deposit box were, just like

Josiac and that. What happened there? I'm arrogant and I'm cocky and I'm fucking narcissistic and I just thought I was too fucking smart and they weren't going to catch me because they're all fucking idiots. You thought you were that smart that you didn't even be a second fucking plan to do it?

I got caught in a bank handcuffed. I know. I said it's awesome stories. And convince them. that they had the wrong person. I've been in a bank where I've had fucking bank managers looking at me, practically telling me, I know this is a fraud. The guy said that.

The guy said he didn't feel comfortable with that. The guy that said, I don't feel comfortable with this whole time. I wonder if he's ever seen your podcast. I've been like, I told you that was the guy. The Secret Service showed up and told him who I was. A week later, the Secret Service showed up. Oh, oh, yeah. You just kept me and have you got a.

so okay so there's that that that was I've always wondered that about about what you thought about the time and then here's another thing that I have to be with everybody on that channel well not everybody on the channel but a lot of the people on that channel this is what really drives me nuts people think for some reason that the government or the state or the federal government has some sort of responsibility to rehabilitate people uh why why do they think huh they're not even trying Yeah, but why should they try? Why should, why? I mean, try convincing a bunch of people that pay them bills that, that, I mean, imagine spending all that millions of dollars on prisons and then people saying, people in prison saying that you owe them some sort of rehabilitation. Well, it's just not the case. The government, the people in the United States don't owe people in prison any kind of rehabilitated.

First of all, they were never habilitated to begin with. That's the problem. That's why they're in prison. Well, everybody else got habilitated, obituated to their environment. They didn't. The government doesn't owe them people. I'm not saying it's, I'm not saying, listen,

I'm not saying it's not maybe economically a good idea to try to keep their recidivism down to a minimum. But first of all, that's ridiculous. It doesn't happen. It's not going to happen. You can't. That's so ridiculous.

What kind of program are you going to put people through? It's going to lower that. it's never happened they've tried this throughout history in prison and with prison reform and stuff the the art the guys that go to the art app program have a lower recidivism rate than anybody who says i mean the art that the art app program you know the government statistics the bureau of prisons i don't know where you know i'm not sure why you're getting your statistics well i'm not i don't have them right i'm just saying you don't have them they like they're not dumping the money into that program because they're not being able to show they're dumping the

money in that here's why they've done with the money in that program is because it sounds good they don't have to have any kind of statistic that says anything that what they think is they got a bunch of liberal politicians who are going to pay for because they believe in in rehabilitation that does nothing to do with the statistics or the or whether or not the statistics are real they're probably not real i i would i would dare anybody to dig up stats that says that there's a program of prison that that really reduces the amount of people that come back I mean, I've never seen anything like that. I mean, I can tell you right now, the ARDAP program does. But anyway. How do you know that, though? Well, I mean, I know. Okay. Well, first of all, what you're basing your opinion on or your, what you're basing your opinion on is just your opinion.

It's not an opinion. That's not just an opinion. Well, then where. But there's no program out there. They're saying. Who's they? People in prison who come on the show. And the act like the society owes them some rehabilitation and that if they had it,

there would be a lower recidicism. How are you said? What's it called? Recidivism. Right. And that the government should spend more money on on rehabilitation and stuff because it, for any reason, it lowers that. Well, no doubt. I don't think there's any program that would do that.

Right. Not a prison program. I'm not saying that people can't get better and not go. I don't want anybody going back to prison. I don't hate people that are in prison or nothing like that. I'm just saying you can't go to prison expecting society to repair that for you. What they expect is, is, you know, what they expect and don't expect is irrelevant, in my opinion. What I'm saying is that if there were pro, you're saying because they feel entitled to get it.

Yes, they feel entitled to it. Okay, so if they went in and they were appreciative to have it, would you then offer them the program? I'm not saying I would I would or wouldn't offer what I'm saying is they don't have a right to expect to be I don't really know anybody that thinks they have a right to us but what they think is it would be better for society okay yeah I'll agree with that okay that's even better because that's even better that they say that because I don't think it's true one and two they say up dang it now you may change my train and thought about what I was going to say about that they uh they uh they wanted to happen they think it be better and they want their prison time to be easier for one because they and they think for some reason if a program would would uh make it less likely that you come back to prison i don't think so they could be there could be an argument made and i'm not making this argument i'm just saying that people do make this argument that no prison should be less enjoyable and less uh you know it's harder to deal with in that way you wouldn't be saying things like it would have taken a 10 year sense for me to stop you might be saying dude i wouldn't risk it for six fucking months. You know what I mean? That's an argument that other side has about their attitudes towards prisons. And people also hate for some reason, they hate the private prison system.

First of all, I don't think anybody knows what it is. I don't really even understand how that works. And they don't either. And why would you hate the private prison? The government can't do anything right. Why would you disagree with the public or private people having something to do with it? prisons because you think they think not you I'm saying they think that it's somehow related to the amount of people that go to prison so that I've heard it a million times they think a private

prison system is incentivizing the courts isn't to send people to prison for slave labor that they think well slave labor my ass you can't you could never regain the amount of money it cost you to prison somebody from their labor in prison you're not going to get your money back the state's not getting their money back because you made a couple of shelves in the in the You know, it costs them. How much you think it costs it? It puts somebody in prison for a year. How much you think that really costs?

I mean, do you have any idea? I don't. But I bet you it's over $100,000 a year to keep one guy locked. It's got to be. No. When you're talking about more, the more than the building and the court system, the legal system, it's in millions. Right.

Do you want to know? Yes. Go ahead. So it's about $36,000 to keep an inmate in prison. Now, that's what the Bureau of, prisons is paid to keep them there. Right. Okay. What does it call?

What do you mean? What do you say paid? Okay. For every inmate, the budget requires 30, about 35 to $36,000 per inmate that they receive every year. So if you take all the money that they spend, let's take the federal government. Wait a second. Wait a second. I'm not done.

Okay. The second, so that's the first thing. How much are they reimbursed per year per inmate? about 30 let's say let's round it down to 35,000 okay that's one thing the second thing is now how much does it cost society to have an inmate in prison it costs about 54 55000 to 55 thousand dollars now here's why because when you remove that person you remove them from the tax base yes i get that right so you cost everything across the you cost um well most of these people are not actually productive citizens that are paying their taxes. They're getting welfare checks and everything else. They're a burden on the entire system. Insurance. I don't mean to be put,

listen, I'm just saying this is the argument that's being made in order to make this our justice system what it is. How it's, how it's, how it's, I hear you know, I'm not, I'm not making this argument for myself's sake. I'm saying that this is the argument on the other side of the fence and that's why the, the prison system is set up the way it is

because it's so easily chopped down. When you have people out there saying what I'm saying right here, which is that these are not people who are outpaying their taxes. They're a burden on society to begin with. And the best way to relieve the society of the burden that they're putting on is the cheapest way is to put them in prison. Because now they're only going to cost us 50. They're out here. It costs us hundreds of millions of dollars. Because even if you rip off a bank or even though it's just a bank, well, it's not really just a bank.

I mean, they have a board of directors and they have, it's a corporation. and has investors and people that lose money somewhere down the line somebody even if it's an insurance company if you steal from an insurance company the industry are working people do that all the time and they they say it's not stealing well it's not really stealing because if we rip off the insurance company that's they rip us off all the time it's really just a game of cat and mouse and it's justified that we do this that that's a stupid argument but i i think it is a stupid argument exactly and that's what i'm saying about the about about the and and if you if you really wanted to figure out how much it costs to keep somebody in prison. You have to figure out how much money they spend on the entire prison system and then divided by the number of inmates that are in the prison, which is I don't think it would come out to $54,000. I mean, I just don't think it would be that low. It's about $36,000. What about all the money these, for example, is this included in that figure? This is just what I'd say if I was in a congressional hearing. Is this included? Is that is that is that what we pay on the for the whole entire legal system, the police force that, the, you know, all the security that we have to. You know, all the security that we have to.

to hire to keep these people you know their cost in society so much money and the okay the what they have to pay to defend them in court have to pay for that is that included in the amount that it costs you to put somebody in prison so what i know the the 55 000 let's say let's round it to 55 000 the 55 000 that it costs just in general society is you take the 35 000 minus the 55 right so you got about 20 000 is what's typically paid in that those people aren't paying in in taxes, and that's property taxes, that's, you know, that's social security, that's Medicare, that's employment taxes, that's all those taxes that they could be out there earning. Now, if you're saying, no, these people are not out there

earning. Right, they're not. They're in prison. So you know, but even before they were in prison. Well, they were coming crimes. There's an argument. The argument is if they were productive citizens making an average, an average, that's what they would be contributing to society. So the goal is to get them to not come back to prison. Now, you're saying, hey, let's make prison so horrible they don't want to go. No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is this. I'm saying that's an argument that they have.

I'm not making that argument. I'm not saying that we should change it to be like that. I'm saying it's a damn good argument to be had there. It's really not. That's what's keeping it the way it is. That's the other force that's balancing out this force. You got what you're saying on one side and what I'm saying on the other, and that's really what's balancing out what's going on with the legal system.

Because there are people who are law-abiding systems who are sick of paying for it. They don't want to pay for it. And they know. Listen, bro, I'm with you. You know what? If it was up to me, I get it. Fuck these public schools. Those kids don't need to know how to read.

They can work in factories. and you know what as a matter of fact you know I'll give me a gun I'll police myself we don't need the police I hear you if you know

you see what you're going is so you know fuck it let's have three tears you can pay your way out you can put somebody in jail for five years hard labor or you can just execute them like I hear all of your

the argument it's not what I think man you got that you got that all twisted up it's not it's not the same thing as saying we're going to get rid of the public schools and listen these are adults. These aren't, no, it's not.

It's not the same thing. The Constitution doesn't, guess what? The Constitution doesn't say anywhere that we have to educate the poor. We have to pay for education. I didn't, I, is it a good idea for society is what you're saying that yes, it is. So is it a good idea for society to, to educate the poor? I don't, I have no idea. The United States was, no, I don't, listen, that's a, that's an argument that lots of people,

you think the public schools are doing some kind of fantastic. job with people? And then at the same time? I think it's better than not educating. What makes you think they wouldn't be educated? Just because of the public, there's plenty, you send your kid to private school. There's plenty of educational opportunities in the world besides public school. You think that somebody that works at McDonald can afford to send their child to a private school? No, but if there were no public schools or probably

be more affordable private schools, I'll say that. What I'm arguing is the libertarian argument about this whole case and it is they do have a big argument about you have you ever heard of anne ran the woman that that's yeah okay i've read that i've read fountainhead yeah the one before it well that's what i'm saying that that is a good argument that's the argument yeah that's that sums it up right there what i'm saying i'm not saying it i'm saying that there are people who say that and they have no one time in 1995 my dad uh came to me and said hey i got a friend of mine uh this lady that works at the store, the grocery store, they had a grocery store. My uncle had this grocery store and this lady worked there and she, her husband worked at the Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary, okay?

And he said, this guy's willing to give us a private tour of that prison. And all we got to do is read this book. He said, he would give us this tour, but we have to read this book about the prison. It's called the High House. It's about Leavenworth County and Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary. Read the book and then the next Wednesday we'll go there. But he wants us to read the book so we know who we're looking at what's going on in this prison. So I do. I read this. I read the book. It's a famous book to you ought to read it. It's a fantastic book. It's all about that prison. And I remember, I'll never forget this. We get there and he's explaining there's this giant building. And he says, that used to be the furniture factory. I used to build furniture there. Now, I was thinking, well, that's a great idea. Why don't we have the prisoners building furniture and making license plates and everything else? And this is what he said. Because for every piece of furniture that they build in that prison, you're taking that away from the private industry. The private people who built furniture don't want us having those people build furniture because they're putting us in a position to underbin them that's unfair completely unfair to the private

people who were out there building furniture honestly you know what i'm saying so that's a that changed my whole attitude about it right then and there when he said that i remember walking around in that prison and thinking man wow i would have never i would have never dreamed that that there was an argument to be made in that direction, that it was, it was detrimental to society in any way at all to have prisoners doing some kind of productive activity like golden furniture or making license plates or whatever. Well, there is. There is detriment to it, you know, and I'm not saying that they ought to make, but I heard you use this word else at draconian. Our sentencing is draconian, right? Well, and I'm not, I'm not saying that you're wrong. I don't know if the

sentences, if they were reduced. I mean, I just don't see. how you could finagle the system to make it any better, even if you did have programs. I just don't know, I don't know if those numbers are right. I don't know if people in our doubt go back to prison less often, but I've read enough about the prison industry and the, and I'm sure you have two. There's been waves in this country of prison reform and prison. It'll go all one way for a while. You know, they used to put people on chain gangs, you know, and then people come along and that's ridiculous. Let's try to reform them and somebody will get in office some uh governor gets in office and they put in this giant

reform program kind of like in uh shawshanky dimps and sort of when he was they were ripping off you know the corruption there well that that that's that's another thing you know what i mean so i'm just saying i never hear that argument made on on this channel and i'm just bringing it up i'm not i'm not i don't hate criminals i mean i've you know i i deserved i'm sure i've deserved a little bit of prison time for it's if you if i got caught for everything i did you know I did some pretty stupid shit and I could have very well easily went to prison too

but I would have never gone to prison and claimed that that there was that the society owed me some kind of reform program or I think they ought to do this you know what I mean I just

I don't know on my on my program who said that who said what oh about the print well there's a theme running through it it's a theme running through the and I love it the show. Don't give me wrong. I try to watch all

years. I like it. I tell people about it all the time. You know, I'm an advocate for that show. And it's, it's all their attitudes about it, about, I think even Boziac is talking about, about he's the smartest one on the, okay, I think

the attitude might be, they should, but not that they're. But they all have the same argument, and it's all a, it's almost a the argument is, it's so, I'm like, man, come on, dude. Like, here's, here's an argument that people make all the time, too.

Listen to this. They say, this drives me nuts. Why don't they make drugs legal and then we can just tax them to death and then it'll solve all the problems like they do with alcohol? Why don't we do like we do with alcohol? You think the taxes on alcohol equal anywhere near the amount of money it cost society to take care of the problems that alcohol creates with domestic violence and car wrecks on the highway and so they ain't get it.

They ain't recouping their cost. Okay, they can put a 50% tax. on alcohol and it wouldn't i don't i don't think now i don't have the numbers right in front of me but i would guess that they're not getting their money back from from the destruction nothing is more destructive in the world than alcohol they're not recouping their money you know the how the police force spends 50% of their time 90% of their time on domestic disputes caused by alcohol i have read them stats i have read stats like that uh jordan peterson is an expert and i'm sure you know who he is he's an expert by the way you this is another thing dude you said

I'm watching that show all the time I wish I could argue I wish I could argue with them well Andrew Tate you compared Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson and it was exactly what you said now you said you said in a way what Andrew Tate's doing

and his message is basically what Jordan Peterson is saying that's what you said right it was not even fucking close if you really listen to what Peterson says it ain't even in the fucking neighborhood of what Tate says I think 90% of their

message overlaps there is 10% difference and one percent of how it overlaps and here's the one percent that what's that what in one way does it overlap and this is it and since you said that i couldn't believe he said it anyways because i thought you were i was like that's pretty fucking insightful that he said that i couldn't believe i'm like damn man he really knows well then i start and then i really started looking into it i'm like no dude that's here's here's the only thing they have in common. Men should be more, a little bit more,

have a little bit more confidence. That's it. That's as far as that goes. The similarity between Tate and Peterson. Yes. Tate, Tate's a pimp. Look,

they both talk about men doing what? Being more confident. Being men. That's it. No. Behaving like men, they both talk about how, there's the confidence to be a man and behave like a man

and act like one and sit. Be chivalrous. be oh no i don't think tate says anything about chivalry bro i don't think that's part of this fucking here's the thing i think you've been watching the ticot's it if you've ever watched a full episode on him oh yes i've watched it i don't i i think

i agree with most of what he says actually but he is not a good guy well i i think the difference well wait a minute first of all he didn't have to be a good guy you don't have to be a good guy yeah but you say you are that's no no you don't have to be a good guy You're telling me this. Are you telling me that if you're telling me that if a multiple murderer sat here and told me you should be polite, you should read more, you should be educated, you should go to college.

I see where that's going. Because he happened to have killed three people. Oh, you're right. So it's the message, not the message. Oh, okay. Are you? That's fair. That's a fair argument.

I get it. But, yeah, and then, and when you said it, I thought, that's pretty good. I'm surprised he drew that conclusion. Not that I think you're stupid or anything, but I didn't see that coming. I thought, wow, that's pretty good. You sat down and you wrote out all the things that they say that are similar. I'll bet you'd come up with 100 of them, and I'll bet you 90 of them would overlap. Okay.

When you said it, I knew immediately that there was a little bit of truth to it. So I, but then I started maybe, maybe the reason I changed. my attitude about it was because I looked into a little bit more about at first I thought you know Candace Owens is right she she was an advocate of his and I I thought wow that's a that's that's pretty big deal but uh and then the the whole case about the that he was involved in was was supposed to be totally unwarranted and total bullshit is what it's what she made it sound like and but it's not there was some relevancy to the kidnapping situation how he was doing it.

You know what I mean? There was a, I don't know exactly what it was, but I remember watching it and feeling that there was a little bit, it was a little bit more relevant than I had been led to believe it was. It's a, it's what's called, it's called a lover boy scam. It's deeper than that because he was actually,

hey, when they said it about you, I thought it was, it's extremely unfair. First of all, I hated that they, they were saying you were taking advantage of single women. That's ridiculous.

They were taking advantage of you, of anything. They were riding on your back. that's what the press does. Yes. And if you don't look into it, if you don't look into it, then...

No, I did, but I did look into the Tate situation, is what I'm saying, is I did look into that. I, first of all, he's not, I don't think he's a good guy at all. His brother, maybe.

He's, he's intelligent to a degree, but I don't know. I think... What, you know, bothers me is that I'm... I disagree with his delivery. And I,

but I agree with about 90%. That's the most successful thing about it is his delivery. That's, That's the one thing he has going for. That's my, I think the, I think 90% of the message, listen, I think 90% of he and Jordan Peterson say about the same thing, only Tate's message. I think Tate is so overbearing of the way he says things is that, yeah, it becomes lost.

And so like what you were saying about the guy in California that does the, uh, workout stuff, you are, you're always talking laughing about West Watson. West Watson, right. Dude, listen. I think 90% of what was, West Watson. Austin says, is absolutely spot on. But when you're screaming and hollering and yelling and calling people bitches and punks and talking about slapping people, like, I'm sorry, we're done. I can't listen. I looked into this so hard. Well, I did your everyday YouTube, Google, whatever about

him trying to find out if he really was in prison. If he wasn't, there's all these detractors out there. But they got zero evidence, dude. I've never seen one piece. a paper proof or anything that says he really wasn't in the prison system like he says he was. I was contacted by a guy who's a prison guard who actually told me that big hurt. Do you know what dry

snitching is? I get the concept of it. You're basically snitching on somebody but you're not getting anything for it. You're just telling on them. Oh, that's dry snitching? Yeah, dry snitches when you're not getting anything. There's no benefit for you. So... That's bitch snitching. Really?

The guards will even say that. like bro you're dry snitching like like you're telling me something and you're going to get nothing for this i don't know what you're doing right now and you know like sex offenders are big on doing that but but um oh i bet the slimy greasy i bet they are this uh this guard who was apparently said he was in a california state prison he said that uh big herk on multiple occasions dry snitched on other inmates like talking about hey there are you talking about big her or west you're talking about big hurt okay not west watson i i i that's why i just changed that it wasn't it wasn't west watson it was big hurt but that he had all these things he wrote me a whole thing and was like

this and i he's like bro you need to do an episode on this because this is what happened you tell me well and what i told them was okay great you're a ceo then get me then get me the copouts get me the reports or i said tell me what institutions he was at and give me the reports and i'll do a freedom of information act i don't have to mention your name name. I said, but help me out. I can't just take your word for it. Unless you want to come on the program and you want to tell me this from your your mouth. He didn't have the guts to do that I bet. He said, oh, I'll get you the information. I sent him like two response to emails. See, there's nothing to it then. There's absolutely nothing there. I mean, it's, like to me, I'll tell you

that conversation. People can hear that conversation. But I'm telling you right now, I got no proof that that's true. That may have just in some man who's just mouthing. off. That doesn't mean it's true at all. No, no, not all. Just like another thing you said on the program, I think it was you that said these people in, that talk all this shit about sex offenders. Well, when they get out, there's a sex offender list

and they don't go out chasing these people down. So that's just something they talk about in jail. And I'll tell you what else, what used to make me sick about these punks and jealous. You want to talk all this trash on a sex offender, but when he gets here, you don't really want to face the guy. You want everybody else to get on the guy's back so you get extort him. You ain't going to

walk up to that guy and do it. Nothing. You don't have the guts to walk up to him and really face the music because he might hit you. He might stab you. You don't know, but you ain't doing it. And that's just the case. You might say you're going to. There was an S.O. And the guy was like a Marine.

So he's an S.O. And he's a Marine. Listen, he knocked out two or three dudes that mouthed off to him. So it's like, yeah, he is an S.O. But he's also a Marine. Yeah. Like, so here were guys, there are these hard ass guys walking around like. And they'll make a comment and he'll be like, hey, man, you need to watch it.

Boom, he just knock him out. Guy drops on the ground. Dudes are like, leave that motherfucker alone. That's right. If they're going to pay any kind of a price, that's the case. I thought he couldn't walk the yard. I thought he had to have paperwork. Yeah, that dude walked in whatever he wanted to do.

Because after you knock three guys out, all these hard-ass guys don't want to, they're in a soft low. They don't want to go anywhere. They've been to the thin. They've been to the medium. They don't even want to go another low. The people in jail, it was the same thing, the way they talked on that stuff. I'm like, man, you just want, you just, you're not going to do anything about it. You know, so that's, that's my whole thing.

Guys will be like, oh, you should have this. You said, listen, stop, stop. I'm not the guy that's going to walk around acting like I'm a badass. I'm not going to walk around talking shit about this show or this guy or that. I'm not doing it. I want to make my time as easy as possible. If nobody's bothering me, I will bother no one. I want to make this easy.

It's bad enough that I'm fucking here. Yeah, that's right. So I can't walk around being like, oh, that dude over there is a snitch. Oh, fuck him. We need to check his paper. Oh, that dude there, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a show. Yeah. Run him off the earth.

Man, I'm not. What are you doing? Yeah, leave me alone. Yeah, leave, leave. I want to go out of it. You, yeah. Exactly. I don't want to be around.

I'm not going to associate with him, but I'm not going to act like I'm the savior of the planet. I'm going to listen. Listen, the guys that talk like, the guys that talk like that talk like that, you get to a point where you're like, I don't even want to be around you now. You're such an asshole about this whole thing. You bring it up all the time. You run your mouth constantly. It's like they're hiding something as well. It's overcompensating and they're hiding the fact that they're a rat.

Or that was a big deal in jail too. Everybody calling everybody a rat. I'm like, what are you talking to? You're the, listen, I've never been around more rats and snitches in my life than I wasn't jelt. Those are the rats and snitches. Okay. The honest people out in the world that wouldn't rat on somebody, they're not in, prison man they're out making an honest living

they're honest and good people they're not going to be in there like that shut up oh man it made me sick the people in there just 90% of them made a career out of stealing from Walmart I heard about that for eight months about all these they thought they were so cool because they had all these ways to rip off Walmart I'm like man what is it wrong with you

you know I mean that's just that's their career and listen I'll tell you a funny story about one of the best jail stories is an actual true story this is a buy it there's a guy in there comes that you know how people come in they're all innocent right especially at first now they're going to fight their case and their wives are going to stay with them and all this stuff about their wives on the phone they'd be screaming it i just even kill me to hear people screaming fake you better put that money on my books you know and all this you man oh my god you're what an idiot well they come in and they're innocent at first because they haven't been in their long but they they fall apart at the faces to face any jail time i i mean these people just i'm like man you'd think you'd be more used to this now you do this over and over again and you just fall to pieces when you get it here it's ridiculous man grow up but they're all innocent at first one this one guy comes in the jog been there i was having a good time by this time i'm playing chess every day i was always sitting at the chess table and this

guy comes in a little short guy remember the guy he was about uh dude he was noticeably short like if you've seen him what you said was that dude's a short dude right that's what you thought when you seen him okay his name was henry you can look this up it's in the it's in the it's in the Leavenworth County Times with a Leavenworth Journal. This is a true story. His name was Henry. I don't remember his last name. But he comes, he's in there for a while, and finally, I can see he's lonely and whatever

and he wants to be a part of what's going on at our table. And so I invite him over, hey, man, what's going on? And what are you in here for? And I won't get into how it happened, but this is the story. He says, okay, well, here's what happened. I was at the liquor store one day in some town around here. it was a fairly big size time. It sounds like over in the park or something.

He says, and at the same time I was at the liquor store, it was right next to a pharmacy. And the pharmacy got robbed. And the guy that did it had on a hoodie, and he was short. Like me, he was real short.

And so I'm walking out of the liquor store with my case of liquor, just minding my own business walking home, and the cops pull up, and bam, I get charged with an aggravated burglar of a pharmacy. I'm like, wow, that's a, that's a fantastic story, Henry. I said, how tall was a suspect? Five, two? How many people in that

neighborhood are five, two with a frigging orange hoodie on, right? How many people? And he's like, I'm telling you, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I'm like, listen, man, I'm not going to say nothing to nobody. I don't care, but don't be acting like, you know, you're all innocent about it. I said, there's got to be a reason why. They didn't just pick you up off the street. There's got to be more to it. Where were you going? I was going home. Who do you live with? My brother. Is your brother? Is your brother? have a record? Yeah. For what? Robbing a pharmacy? Oh, Robin the pharmacy, eh? What do you know? Maybe that was part of the case. And he says,

but I'm telling you, I didn't do it. And I can prove it. And I said, well, how are you going to prove it? He goes, I got a receipt from when I was buying the beer that's at exactly the same time the pharmacy is getting robbed. It's exactly the same time. I was in the liquor store. I'm on a camera. I'm like, okay, Henry, well, let's see what they do with that. Let's see what your public defender does with this case, you know? And he's, but he's confident that he didn't do it. He almost has me believe in this.

I'm like, maybe, man, maybe, you know, but then he goes to court and he comes back, he starts talking about taking a plea. And I'm like, bingo,

he did it. Mingo, now I know he did it because why would you, why would you admit to taking a, you know, taking a felony plea for something that big, something you didn't do? And he said,

because I got to get back home and lose my apartment in my car and everything else. I would just rather take the felony than go through what I'm have to go through. I'm like, dude. First of all, if you didn't do it, I would never say that you did, no matter what the circumstances are. He's like, man, you don't understand my girlfriend, my wife, all this, you know, okay, Henry, whatever. Well, I got out of jail in the meantime, and I remember thinking, I'm keeping an eye on that case because there wasn't something I thought by this time, there was something to this case. Maybe he does, maybe he did seem confident about it, but he was going to take a plea to what? Well, lo and behold, they found out that he did, in fact, have a receipt from the

exact time that the liquor store was getting robbed and they did have the wrong person he had nothing to do with it and he had been in prison for two months and was absolutely innocent of the crime they had him on surveillance in a liquor store at the same time the pharmacy was getting robbed it was him in the liquor store with the receipt yeah i mean that blew my mind then i started thinking oh my god man maybe there are i mean jesus he almost he almost pled to a case he had nothing to do with at all because of the of the pressure that they put on people now that and that's another thing that people talk about the bond the bond situation that and that's unfair especially in a case like that he had a bond he couldn't afford you know i don't i don't know how high it was but it was above his ability to pay it and uh he was

willing to take a plea i mean that's scary now you know he should have had he been out he would have never been in that but he would have never ever considered taking that plea and he didn't either he didn't take the plea and he sued the uh in the article if you if you ever got interested you could look it up it's it is it there's an article because that's how i found out about it and he had a go fund me page and all this uh you know he was trying to get out of this out of the state or something but i think they even had a write up it was in the newspaper that it was a wrongfully a wrongful arrest situation and he was trying now they say you can sue them or whatever if it's very difficult could you could you do that i mean and it's it's just very difficult the the burden of you're of proof is really high. Like, you have to basically prove that they knew or should have known. Yeah, it's not like maliciously, but basically, almost like, yeah, almost yes, like they did it on purpose. Like, they knew or they at least should have known.

And honestly, the way it, you know, it's, it's so difficult. Yeah. Yeah. It sounded to me like he was a budget. He was a legitimate suspect, I thought. And, yeah. So, so, so legitimate, like, how are you going to win that? that you were legitimate so what they should have done was they're going to say look they took

them took him several weeks to even check the receipt they never even checked his alibi they immediately said like they you know they're going to say all that and it took him a while to do it in their defense it did take it me you can't just do it overnight you have to uh they had to go find the receipt where was it in the beer box that he had he must have it on him when he got arrested right that's because they did have it you know right they didn't find it they probably just shrugged off the his story and immediately. Yeah.

He's fucking lying. But then again, they hear so many lies. Yes. Yeah. I know. It's a twisted. It's a twist.

This is what I say to people about the justice system all the time. If you think you know so much that you think you know, then tell me, think of one fucking thing that you think you could do to make it better, to make it more fairs. I'm talking about something legitimate that you could do to make it more fair. You want to lower the bail? Look at the places that tried to do that. Or again and everything else that let people out off with no way. bail. Look what that does. They put 99% of people that go to jail are guilty, right? They're

guilty or are of something. And when they, they're dangerous when they get out, if they get out their problems, you hear about people all the time being on bond and getting out and causing more problems. Happens all the time. You can't, the bond system I don't think could be corrected in any way. I don't think it could be any more fair than it is, except for maybe it should be more of, I don't know, I don't know if that can be corrected or not. I don't, I don't really. I mean, people say that, but try try drawing up a better legal system try it try it i mean it's just the fact that we have the presumption of innocence in this country's a that's a huge deal they don't have that everywhere you know what i mean they don't you know the state doesn't have to prove you're guilty it's you're

proven you're not in most places you know what i mean it's that's that's that's a good legal system foundation at least right i mean don't you agree or no yeah too do unless you got a better way you think you could wring it up to where you'd have you could bring up a more fair I think the problem is that you're just not going to find a perfect system. That's exactly right. And I think this is as perfect as it can guess what I'm saying, really, within reason it is. Here's the other thing about you and your channel that I think about all the time is you call yourself a narcissist all the time, which I don't think that's true at all. I don't know why you would say that about yourself that you're that narcissistic.

Now, you're married, right? You talk about your mom all the time. like you'll be talking on these podcasts about how much how you'll start crying at the at the simple mention of some of these things that's not narcissism dude that's the opposite of narcissism people who are narcissistic ain't going to cry over nothing except for their own ass being in jail where you're talking about your mom you're talking about your wife you're talking about and i don't think you're any more narcissistic than the than the next guy and why you would think that i don't know you i think that you were arrogant and thought that you were smarter than you than you, I don't know, you probably were as smart as smart as you think you are. But maybe, you know, your luck grown out or whatever. And maybe you are smart and everything. But I don't see why you caught yourself a narcissist all the time. You say that all the time to a point where I'm like, what are you trying to talk yourself into it? I mean, why would you say that? I would never say I was a narcissist in any way. For one, I'm not. And I love to hear myself talk

as much as you do. You know what I mean? And you say that stuff. about almost waiting for the guy to stop talk everybody does that man everybody's doing that's not you know that i don't know tell me what makes you think you're a narcissist well i'm not saying i'm on the high i'm at the high end of the spectrum but you think you're more more so than a normal guy absolutely and and i and i also think that there there are only maybe maybe you are there are very few things that get me emotional maybe four like there's okay i can they're four topics that I can even start to talk about and immediately well up. For the most part, I'm extremely harsh. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm just, it just doesn't

affect me. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me. Where other, I see other people getting upset. Gaging that, I mean, it's a maybe difficult way to gauge it. I mean, how do you, how are you comparing your emotions to mind, really? It's a difficult thing to do. I mean, I might feel the same way you do about a lot of that stuff. Like, you know, you don't something tells me. It's not what you're asking as if you're a narcissist, huh? I said, what do you say? me you do something told me there are a lot of things that there are a lot of similarities but yeah i i think i just don't think you're narcissists as bad as you do maybe i'm not saying it's i think you're arrogant i think what happens is people immediately say that and people say that and they

think oh my god and they think the worst possible it's like saying well i i i suffer from antisocial disorder right yeah that's a big that's a big deal listen that that is a big deal if you really that's real that's like Jeffrey Dahmer type that's what that really means that's it's really probably 95% of the people in prison in some form are on that spectrum now they're not they're not Jeffrey Dahmer but let's face everybody's on that spectrum is what I'm saying I'm saying I think you're to a degree but let me get to a two degrees that's exactly right to a degree just to say is is my welfare more important than societies yes yeah I feel so right but a lot of people don't like a lot of people who doesn't think that liars i'm just saying a lot of people

would sit there and you know they don't do certain they don't do things that listen there are people that work at food food kitchens because they want to that's insane there's not there's not there's no there's not there's not there's not people who are your food kitchens because out of the goodness of their heart what they're doing is they're trying to impress their fucking neighbors they're not that's not true they don't they don't go to you have a very very good person they go to food kitchens to wave a flag of of in what you said about how wait for listen i say this all the time i'd wipe out every man woman and child on this planet with a nuclear fucking bomb if i if i if if certain conditions apply for one for this if anything was going to happen to one of my kids i'd say i'll just all i'd rather murder the entire planet i'll let them all go bam before i'd do that I'll let them all, you know, I, I don't keep, know what keeps people from hitting a nuclear button. The only thing is, I mean, I say as those, I might, if I had to do them, yeah, I'd retaliate against the world. Maybe it's a bad day in the chief's game or something.

I might get mad enough and hit the button, you know what I mean? If my family was okay and I was okay and I was in a bunker, it might start looking a little appealing. Hey, man, I like post-apocalyptic, you know what I mean? I might just, everybody I know is safe. boom you know what I mean I don't know what keeps it from happening I mean you know now so is that narcissistic to say yeah well everybody's you know what what is it what is it what you said is they're they're mainly lying they're mainly liars you're not lying at least you don't lie about like you're you're you're saying that they're you think charitable people are charitable

people aren't lying what I think a lot of people I think those people aren't lying i think mainly they're lying and they're doing it for listen i i live in a town it's this it's crazy liberal it's a place where there's a bunch of food kitchens and a bunch of bs like that but i'll tell you what they're not those people are not out there asking these people to come to their house or or really doing anything but putting down on a piece of paper that they volunteer at the food kitchen they're they don't care about the people eating the food at the food kitchen man i just don't believe it i've there might be a one of 50 people that do it but that's not that's not their motivation is to help the poor they're not giving away 50 cents at this

at the stoplight when the guy comes up to the window and asks for 50 cents they're not giving that guy 50 cents not out of their own money when nobody's looking you know i just i don't believe that there's so many good people in society you have an awful i'll have an awful good outlook on that one you know i just don't i think there are people like that but yes there are matt there are good people in the world no doubt but but 95% of the people who act like what you're saying they're not they're not They're lying about it, is what I'm saying. Just like most liberals, I don't want to get into politicians, but most people that are spouting that stuff are lying about it.

They're just lying about, like, the way they want to help people in prisons or we want to do this. No, you don't. You just want, you want political clod or your neighbors to, you know, they're on the bandwagon, what I'm saying. You know, it's ridiculous. That's your wrong about that. You're very pessimistic outlet on society. No, I'm just.

realistic that's the truth that's the truth doesn't matter that's a that's a that's this the way it is do you know anybody that you honestly think is a really really really good person i mean how many people do you know that in your circle that you think are really good people um you might have surrounded yourself with good people i was a testament oh i don't i don't surround myself with people um at least good people don't want anything to do with me um i would say my sister is you know my sister um yeah you never talk about you this and that's like i talk about you never talk about your sister who your family is and and i've wondered about that too how come they didn't help you out how come they weren't were they

there for you what were they gonna do what were they gonna do i mean did they love you and care about him and and i mean they send me books they if i need money they put money on my books but i never asked like my sister yeah that's cool or anybody like see you know why because you love you didn't see right there you didn't you didn't want to bother your brothers and sisters with that periodically my mother would put money on my books my literary agent would put money on my book books. But, you know, I very quickly, once I started writing, I always worked. I always had some kind of a hustle in there. And then I, once I started, you know, once I started, um, uh, writing, I very quickly, it was like, like the second story I wrote, I optioned the story. And I got a check for like

$6,000 some odd dollars. Yeah. And then I got a check for like $3,500 for an advance. So in prison, you get 10 grand, you're rich. Going a long way. Right. By the way, I think your writing is underrated. It's too bad that you have to be a writer in this day and age where nobody reads

anything because they don't have to because they'd be reading that Boziac story, dude. That's a good one. That's a true crime. That's good. And I'm a literary, I'm a critic dude of that of writing. I can't stand bad writers. I've read thousands and thousands of books.

They're decent books, really. And especially the Bose's, story. There's a, there's a part in that Bozac story, dude, that was really a masterpiece. I'll tell you. The part where you're explaining about how he slept in that room on, on, there's a part in this book that you wrote. And I'm like, damn, that's fucking good. That's not good. That's, was it like the, it was on top of one of the building. It was like a little shack where they have a utility shed. Yeah, we're explaining the part about that where the motors are running and that humming. And I'm like, oh, that's good. That's good. That's, uh, that's, uh, you know, about 50 steps below Steinstein. or something like that, but not a hundred. Steinbeck's good, man. Have you ever read Steinbeck?

But your writing's pretty good. And it's even more blows me away that you had the, that you had the, the will to do that. I always wanted, wish I could be a writer, but I never had the guts and never put in the time and energy that it takes. That's a, that's a fucking

huge thing. How many people in federal prison get a check for $10,000 for something they did in there? Well, that's really, that's a fucking miracle to me. I would have been too lazy to do it or too afraid I was going to fail at it. You know what I mean? And the books weren't going to be good or something. I had already failed it pretty much everything else.

I found myself in prison with 25 plus years. I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess so. But that doesn't stop most people from not being afraid of failure. I think they're just trying to, they're trying to pass the time by playing chess and walking the track and playing basketball. And, you know, they're, that's what they're. They're going to pass the time. They're going to get out and do just what they did.

My whole attitude in jail was, I'm going to use this time to the best of my, whatever can benefit me. I'm doing it in any possible way, man. If I could, the only thing I could do really was exercise and get better physically and emotionally. That's, you don't have any programs in jail. But I started planning on what I was and wasn't going to do when I got out of jail. I'm not making that mistake again. And I'm not going to.

I'll never do this again. I know I love my wife. We could, you know, and we're still married. And we, our kids are great. You're still married? Yes, absolutely. Oh, I assume you were remarried. No, no, no, no, no.

So she's walking around, she's the woman walking around in the back around periodically. Yes. She was with me the whole time and we went through our thing. But what happened was, I quit being an idiot like that. And problem solved. I mean, I love her. We've been for Helen and we've been married for how long? Married for 18.

Yeah, this is Kelly right there. Yeah. And she's great. She was, she, yeah. Her heart goes out to you. Oh, thanks. Hey, she loved me. And he put up with me too.

Yeah, she, yeah, she ain't no saint, dude. She's no sane. That's perfect. Generosity of women never ceases to me. No, it was me, dude. It wasn't a lot of it was me. It was, hey, listen. It was both.

It was my forgiveness. and my willingness to to my willingness to say how how it was all my fault you know and not to hold the grudge and it wasn't all her it was me a little bit too you know what I mean and now it was funny once we got out of jail listen and how long did it take it didn't take very long I took that month off and then I just went right back to work had an apartment had a car and everything else within them within within within two months you know and then and then she moves back in and and our kids moved in with this and that was a long time ago yeah I know that's funny when you did what

he said I said yeah it's Kelly James Lee yeah I assume that was over no no and he said you were in the middle of the divorce you were getting separated oh yeah it was a hearing listen

but it was because of mostly my drug fueled insanity that was causing the problem that wasn't there before right you know and uh well i've no doubt it was your fault you know you're just not reasonable i have no doubt it was yes okay thank you you don't have to convince me i spent two hours see what i mean it was it was spent two hours and i'm sure i only got a fraction of it oh dude you don't even know you think you're bad man you think shit about talking and stuff like like you talk man

i could go on and on and on and arguing about prison systems and at least you've read i can't believe that You read those books I mentioned. He read a bunch of Anne Rand. Well, you had all the years to do it, too. I was out in society doing it. I read the fountainhead, which, listen, I read that book, and you could have shaved 300 pages off that book, and it would have been all right. Oh, dude. It was exalted.

Listen, the one before, the Atlas shrugged one, you could have took half of the book. Yeah, it was through the trash. It's too much. It was way, way too much. now some of the books that you wrote uh what's that i know what was it what would you say it would be another one that compares to the boziac story i like the one about the lawyer yeah i was going to say i really like the frank amadeo story but i wrote a book about a guy named marcus shrinker which is really really good no i think i read that one marcus shrink is the psychopath idiot lion baster in the airplane yes that's what i was telling you on the phone i'm like that book with the that idiot he gets out i love the story the best part is the way you fucked him not fucked him around in the story but you wrote it the way you wanted to and the idiot just goes along with it thinking that you were just that's narcissus bro that's narcissus he was so arrogant narcissistic

he couldn't tell that you were powerful in danger i didn't know right away i didn't know from talking to you that dude no you know he's no idiot i don't know i wouldn't have fucking trusted you with You know, but he did because he didn't even, dude, he probably wouldn't have even remembered your name. He was so arrogant and, and such a low life. He didn't give you any credit, any credit at all. You know, he was so used to people just blindly believing everything he said. Was he really good looking or something?

Because I can see you get away with that if you're really good looking or something. Yeah, I think he's a good looking guy. Okay, yeah, that's part of it. So, um, it was somewhat successful, right, for a time? I mean, yeah, if you're just, you made it appear so. If you're willing to blatantly lie to your customers, you can, you can be really successful for. Hey, who ain't, man? So, um, did you ever see, did you ever see this TV series, Dirty John?

Oh, yes. So that guy really, like, my, my wife and I watched that last week. We actually finished. Which guy? Because there's, because there's more than one story in that series. No, no, the main guy, John, John, whatever's name is, the main guy He got killed for, for, for, for the woman, the wife,

ex-wife killed him? No, it wasn't the ex-wife, it was the, there's four or five different stories. Okay, you're talking about the series. I'm talking about the original. You're talking about the guy that was that pretended to be a medical professional of some sort. Yes.

So, um, he really, really reminds me of, of Marcus Schroenker. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Where you could blatantly look at you and be like, I can't believe she's behaving like that. I mean, it was so over the top. It was like he was, he, he's one of those guys.

You ever sit in, and this happens in prison a lot. You ever sit in prison and you're watching a TV show and something funny happens and everybody kind of laughs and you see one guy kind of look around and then he goes, and you understand that you, you don't really get what just happened. Yes, yes. Like you're a complete psychopath. like you can't you can't you can't see the irony can't see that any kind of any kind he can't empathize at all yes with the you know he he doesn't he's not able to see the humor in certain things so he kind of fake laughs and fakes emotion and so as a result they're just kind of

sometimes they're bad actors like you just that they would he would and right people shrinker was that's a narcissist that's a narcissist right now no doubt shrinker no doubt shrinker's a a narcissist but yeah so when you say narcissist i think of that guy not you i don't think of your now here's what i think that i think that you say that is narcissistic though that i've always wanted every time you say this i'm like i want to jump on the things to argue with you well uh when you say or i don't know if you say this man but you act like this you act like I don't want to make you matter I'm not

I think you diminish purposely intentionally diminish the damage that the crime could have done and I don't know the extent of what your crimes could have done but when you say

stuff about it was only a bunch of paper man I only signed up you know hey look I'm sure you know that that you know oh I know it's more than that

what I'm saying that And what I'm saying is like, like, I didn't stab somebody. I didn't kidnap someone. But it didn't hurt people. It could have been some of late's retirement or something. Well, here's the difference is it's like when people say they get into a fight with their wife. A fight is physical. You got into an argument with your wife.

I didn't harm anyone. Did I financially inconvenience people? Absolutely. Or definitely. Or financially devastate some people. Well, and that would be great if I didn't. And I hear you. But since I know.

exactly who lost money and how much money they lost. No, you don't. You don't even have a, I'm sure you have no idea. I absolutely do. You know who's on the Board of Bank of America? The board, you think the board, you think I, I crippled the Board of Bank of America? No, what I think is that, that the people that had affected is a chain that goes to the board and goes to the insurance company. None of who, the people you know, right?

I'm just saying, right? I mean, right? Right. Yeah. Who lost money? Who lost money? Bank of America lost $2 million. Bank of America is not a person.

Bank of America is an institution. Bank of America is run by a board who lost money. The board doesn't have a financial investment in Bank of America. Yes, they do. That's why they're on the board. They're only on the board because it's their money in the bank. It's owned by stockholders. Okay, well, then the stockholders.

So you think Board of America, Bank of America, it's worth probably what, $4 billion, $8 billion, $12 billion? So that's how you're going to justify it because they got enough money. What I'm saying is that I don't think that anybody on the board or that owns stock in Bank of America or has an account with Bank of America, I don't think anybody couldn't buy even. I don't think I cost them even a Pepsi. I don't think I cost them a stick of gum. I see what you're saying. If you divide $2 million into the network of that company, that's a good argument. You're saying that it was distributed amongst enough people that it was therefore nullified by the fact that it was, it only did each person a little bit of damage.

You could have a whole lot of damage to one guy. You couldn't even say it was one cent. Do you do the calculation? But if you calculate it in the cost of like, think about this. What do you think it costs Bank of American Out of Secure against people like you and stuff like that? That does start adding up, pro. when you start adding up, how much you got to do to defend against guys and fraud?

How much money do you think they spent on fraud prevention? Do you think that's relevant? No. It gets relevant? No. I don't think I changed not one policy by Frager-Barre because they lost so little money. And on top of that, I- They probably wrote new laws, Matt, because of what you did.

They probably wrote laws about it because it's such a, the case, because of the damage that you're doing right now, even by talking about it. because nobody argue with you on your show either. Here's what I watched the people that they don't want to and I don't want to offend you either but the people usually don't

they're like well it's his show I don't want to and I get that I do the same thing but nobody's confronting you about the situation either I haven't seen well big Hercke I think did later or did he do it on the show did he confront you at all on the show yes he only thing he confronted me on

he did go into a case about the ratting he did have an argument for that that you're right was a complete lie albeit it's his argument about so what you're just going to and you said well they're all we're all criminals that's true I get it I take your side

on that case his whole thing was you you find out that you're your next door neighbors doing dirt and and he fucking uh you go and just tell it was Bob I think his name is Bob I think it was Bill you're just going to tell on Bob

Some racial slur. I was like, is Bob a fucking criminal? Like, yeah, I'm going to tell him Bob. Fuck Bob. And he was just like, you're just going to do that? Yeah. Right in his house, like, you must have been shocking. He was, he was furious.

He's up walking around. When they had to change the cartridges, he gets up, he walks around. He's in his hotel room alone with this guy. You're lucky he didn't take you in the bathroom and get busy. Two thugs. Two thugs. But here's the thing. Like, but I also know that I feel fairly confident, not 100% confident, but fairly confident he's not going to do anything.

What I think he's more upset about is he's more upset about the fact that I, I, I, before I went on, I told him, do you know my story? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah. I already watched, I already watch your story. I know the whole thing. Yeah, I know something about it. And I said, go ahead. Okay.

Well, then let's, yeah, absolutely. I'll meet you. Yeah, it's going to be a great episode. I guess it is. It was a good one. It was a good one, too. Now, is his show still around? I don't even know if it's, is it still rolling? Yeah, I think he's probably got like six, 700,000 subscribers. He puts out videos a couple times a week. He's, he's living off of that show. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. What else is he going to do? Yeah, that's that. What else did you do, too? That's another question I asked, what would you have done? what was your plan when you were you weren't planning on coming out and starting a YouTube channel and stuff right now what was your plan I mean so I didn't really so I had written all these stories and I knew that's right try and now what I'm thinking but I knew that wasn't going to probably pay my bills it would if we didn't live in an age where people couldn't get it for free I think it was it was good enough that you could well I thought I wanted to start a true crime podcast but I didn't know what that meant exactly I only knew because I'd read

some articles about it. So I knew somehow I wanted to do something. So I was like... Something on the level of you, this podcast? Something like that. No, no, I thought something more heavily edited. Hmm. I like the unedited part of this.

Yeah. I like the fact that it's not really... Yeah, I like that back and forth. But, you know, it would have been more, it would have been much more... There would have been a higher production value. They do the music. They do the whole...

You know, you take a story, you break it into like eight parts, and that's a season. Well, you take what? You take Netflix, a 7-5 compared to your podcast. That's the difference right there. Yeah, well. It's exactly the difference. It's a different. Yeah, it's a highly edited, highly, you know, high production values, an extremely good show.

You know, the thing about him was that I liked him, everybody, didn't you say most people like him? he's a very likable guy and i could see why those other criminals were trusting and they trusted him he didn't seem as fearless as they said he was although they it did seem like it when you heard about his story he was pretty fearless about the way he went about his crimes but the but the but the what really made me not like him was the part where he stole that money from that girl and the bible the money that that that whole story he told it in front of congress too he told that story in front of the fucking um congress he told him that story i couldn't believe him like

man you talk about humiliate yourself right in a congressional sharing he started telling them about how you ripped this woman off out of a hundred bucks I mean that I I know that took a lot of guts I one it takes a lot of guts to say it but two I don't think it humiliated him you see what you're assuming yeah I do say I hear what you're saying now that you say that man I'm but wow yeah I didn't think that way yeah because to me it's like when people you know people say like with me if I tell somebody like I never shy away from yeah I was in prison this happened this happened I did this either yeah me neither I should yeah I have a problem with that at all like and if and if to me that person they're offended then they don't have to be a part of my life I'm okay with that yeah like but if they look at me a certain kind of way like oh you were this you or that that doesn't make me feel humiliation at all it makes me real it's just a nice

it helps me separate okay you and I'm what I'm saying is what he said had no real other i i thought it was a little bit of genuine humility is what i thought when he told the story in front of congress i thought it was real because he wouldn't have done he didn't stand to gain anything from telling that story that was a humiliating story that i would have left out of my life story just like the story i told you about the tires that i did to that lady that i feel so bad about that that if i ever see that woman again I'll buy her news. I'd do it right now. If I found her, I'd give, if she sees the show or anybody sees it, I'll buy the woman a new set of tires. You know what I mean? And it's, it's

embarrassing that I did it. And I'm embarrassed to even say I did it. But that's just to demonstrate, you know, how crazy I was. That's not the only thing I did. One time is the you'll appreciate this crime. I'm at work one day. I'm fairly broke, right? I'm looking out the window and there's a car parking this in an apartment complex. I'm like, man, the car's been there a long time. and looks to me like it's broke down. The heads are laying out beside the car. I bet they can't wait to get that piece of shit out of there. I bet I could sell it.

Why don't I just sell it? I saw I sold the car. I wasn't even when I was across the street. I just called up a junk dealer. I said, Hey man, I got this brown Malibu sitting in front of my apartment complex. It's driving me crazy.

How much do you give me for it? It was like 350 bucks. They go, we get 300. I said, well, come get it. When can you get it? They drove right out, picked it up, and hauled it off, and gave me the money. And that was, So I started thinking, man, I could sell a lot of other people's cars.

I got no money in this. You know what I'm saying? It's an all profit. Here's what I think. Yes, it's all profit. Here's what I thought. How am I going to get caught? What's going to happen?

How's this going to play out? Well, here's what could have happened. Somebody raises a stink about their car being gone. What are they going to do? Call the cops. Call the cops. Where's your car? If they even found it, this car is only worth 200 bucks anyways.

Keep in mind, I didn't sell a Maserati. I sold a beat down brown Malibu with no wheels on it. You know what I mean? I knew they were just, the landlord was probably just happy to get rid of the car, you know? Another thing I did. You're doing them a favor. Yes, that's how I see it.

See, that's true narcissism. Listen, another crime I pulled, Matt. This is a good one. Well, night, I'm out at the bar. This is when me and my wife were fairly recently married. And I'm out at the bar, and we're just, dude, it was like right before the Fourth of July. Might have been the fourth of die.

We're drinking. Everybody's getting drunk, just getting loaded in this bar. It was in Bacer, Kansas. And I get so loaded, I wake up in the back seat of the person's car who drove me to the bar. It's 5 o'clock in the morning, 4.30 or 5 a.m. Nobody's around. I'm completely alone. It's the only car in the parking lot.

I'm passed out in the back seat of it. So I get up and I go, oh, my God. I look at my phone or watch or whatever. And I'm like, my wife's going to shit. I got to get home. So I get out of the car. I start looking for the keys to the car that I'm in. No keys anyway.

nothing I'm like oh shit what am I gonna I gotta get home right now and I'm I'm a good like I don't 12 miles away from home not too far I look across the street there's a there's an auto repair shop I'm like bingo I run across the highway go to the and I know how these places operate so I just look for the drop box I'm like I just get the keys for somebody you just dropped their car off so and I did I got the keys to this car this is great I grabbed the keys to this car and I have a whole bunch of a whole handful of keys so I start going around see which ones will start what one has gas in it, which one will start? I come to this car.

It was a white Chevy course guy. Whoa, it fires right up. And it's, I'm like, dude, it's nice. Things running good. Bam. I take off and just eye-haul ass home thinking my wife's going to be just furious, mad as hell. Who knows what she's going to do? The door's going to be locked, something.

And so I haul ass home. And I had parked my bar at a bar that my uncle owned in this town I live in, right up the street from where I lived. And I thought, well, just parked this car at the police station. So they know it's not stolen. I'll wipe it down and they'll just walk up to my car, jump in my car, and just drive home, right? So that's what I do.

I dropped the car off at the police station, wipe it all down. This is the best part of the story. I wipe it all down with armor all thinking, they can't get fingerprints off the armor all. Wipe it all down. And then I leave it at the police station with the keys in the ignition so they can start it.

And the car ran final, but why I was at the repair shop, maybe it was coming home. Maybe it was fixed already because it ran and drove great, right? It was a white Chevy. course going with the red interior that's how much i remember i get in my van drive home and i'm like oh shit worried all about getting get in the house she's just passed out cold doesn't even know i'm gone doesn't nor does she care you know where i'm at she didn't care she was passed out wouldn't have known

for another five hours where i was or would have sent out you know she wouldn't even start looking for me for 10 hours and so so i start thinking oh man i hope i don't get caught for this car but i didn't steal it i just borrowed it anyways really it was a legitimate I legitimately borrowed the car. But the best part of it is this. I parked it at the police station, literally at the police station, because mainly it was convenient and I wanted to find the car. I wanted to steal nobody's car.

Well, it took about three days for these idiots to find it. Anyways, three days, man, for them people to find it. It was in the newspaper, too. I remember I saved the article for years because I thought was funny. But here's the best part. The license plate was it really recognizable, right? and every day I worked every day that car I would pass it on my way to work that exact car with that license plate and I would pass the lady driving that car and think to myself oh man she has no idea that the idiot that stole her car's passing her right now and every other day on the highway

and what was you know it was a little thrill that I got out of out of this uh just a little you know just it's a sick little thrill that I got out of laughing about that well criminal do that though i've read about it criminals get this kick they say like they look for suspects for arson in the in the in the in the audience you know what i mean they look for those because they're there to they're there to observe they're they're getting the kick out of being guilty of the crime where they're surrounded by you know what i mean people that don't know that and that was one case where i i felt that exact feeling and no i hadn't hurt this lady nor had that cost or anything i would have put gas in the car honestly god if i had the opportunity to do it i if i wasn't scared

to pull up to the gas pump i would put gas in the car before i dropped it off but i was i had to get home you know what i mean i was scared i don't want to get busted so that was the other night when i was talking to you and i said i'm not really a criminal i think i said this yeah i wasn't i wasn't out running around committing crimes well for the last week i've been thinking about i'm like you know what i was a little bit more of a criminal you know that i really let myself believe i was really telling myself i'm not you know i'm not like those people i'm not a troll i did all kinds of you know whoever lost them out who was out a couple hundred bucks that lady was you know it didn't it wasn't harmless fun but pretty close you know i mean he wasn't i wasn't

stealing anything i didn't go out and steal for drugs i was too scared to do i mean what was i going to do i guess going to walmart from from what i hear and just uh load up a cart and then just walk out the door i guess you can do that there was a guy jealous that he did that so many times that every punch out within 50 miles was so full of CDs and PS4s and everything that they could like Boziac in the story about you're telling about Boziac I think it was in your story

where your talk he is saying I think I might even on a podcast where he's saying look you can only do that so many times you can only you know you got to start going further and further out with this you know but boy if there was one guy that could have got away with them crimes that I

was hoping because didn't the book end to where he was on the run. That's how that book ended, right? Yeah. And, man, it was shattering to find out that that wasn't the case, that he didn't just run off into the sunset. You know what I mean? Arrested.

Why'd you have to do that, man? I wish you'd just left that out of that whole story. So I can keep on believing that Boziac's out running around free. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I thought was he was out gone, gone. I later found out. And what about, what about, I mean, this is, or just bullshit. But what about Zach?

What, what, where's he at? He's a great. Great toast. I mean, he's, you know, I, I, he around. We got him to start a podcast. It's called Black Zach. He came up with a nickname. And, you know, I, I've tried to get him to do some, um.

I would have called it Black, black, uh, black or something. I ought to mix them together somehow. But anyway, go ahead. Well, he picked it. So, um, he picked it. And I, I, you know, I, you know. I had him do his life story, like in parts. And so he literally, listen, he literally, he was fully monetized within one month.

That's very difficult to do. So secondly, the channel started making money, a little bit of money. And all he has to do is interview one person. At the rate he was going, Colby and I were basically telling him, listen, if you just interview, do one, one hour interview, at least an hour interview. at least an hour interview once a week in six months from now this channel will be making $1,000.

So once a week, you have to just call someone up like this and talk to him for an hour. We'll do everything else, by the way. Oh, okay, wow. No, no, we'll do everything. That's all you got to do. And you can use my stream yard account.

I'll pay for it everything. But guess what? He just can't do it. He's only done a couple of them. And he just, he's always got a reason he can't do it. I get it. It's difficult.

Difficult thing to do. Yeah. I mean, but you have to think I'm there yelling and screaming. And I'm just at the point now where it's like, eh, listen. Because to me, look, six months from now, it's making $1,000. But in a year from now, it might be making $2,000 or $3,000. Yeah. Like this is something that, you know, it's like working a little side hustle, just a little thing.

Yeah, snowballs. But here's the thing. It's not like, and this is the thing, like a lot of people want to start a podcast. But Zach doesn't seem to understand that, like, you've got an in with me. Yeah, a big one. A big one. And you've got an in with a lot of other podcasters that I can help you with. So you're not some guy who's starting a podcast who also works his insurance job and doesn't

have any ability to do any connection with anybody other podcasters. Like, I don't naked. He's not naked. Right. I can, I'm telling you, I can very. help, I can very quickly help excel your podcast. And he's so likable, it would probably blow

up. He's likable. He's very likable and it would blow up. I'd listen to it. I can understand that completely, man, because I'll tell you what, all the work that you've got to go through to even, I mean, and listen, you've got to really be scraping the bottom of the barrel to have me on this show. I mean, compared to

the other shift, I mean, you're running out of content, bro. You know what I mean? You're good, because it's got to be hard. I told, listen, I actually told my wife, I was like, she's like, well, what's his story? I said, honestly, I say he's just got a knucklehead story. Yeah, it's super entertaining and funny about the whole thing. And he laughs the whole time. I said, it's funny listening to him tell this story.

She's like, well, what do you do? I said, we didn't really do anything. You know, he's basically just a drug addict that keeps getting and that's what it and keeps fighting with the police and fighting with the courts and fighting this whole thing. I said, but it's funny the way he tells the story. Yeah. To me, it was funny, too. After later on, whenever it was all set and done, I started thinking how funny it was. And like, man, that is funny that I, that I, that I made that shit work. You know, there was a lot more to it, too. Like one time I just refused to go to court. And the fact that I won is the best part of that. It came out, dude. It could not have worked out any better. It's just totally impossible. There's no better outcome that could have possibly came, except for, okay, maybe that, oh, I walked away and there was no no uh punishment whatsoever but the only punishment there ever was was pro a little bit of probation by way of which i never uh violated it never one time and the

whole time i was on probation did i ever get convicted of violation uh you know i just it wasn't that hard to do a bunch of probation you know the jail time is the hardest part of it all you know and and even that was beneficial i wouldn't trade that for anything that that saved my life probably honestly you know really i mean i was passing out on the highway driving to work without my shoes on the I passed out the stoplight and the cops come up and I woke up now drug acts will know this they'll know they'll say oh yeah I know I've been there those drugs what they do to you is and you know a little bit about it if you if you take them what really is happening to you is this you'll get in a situation where it's information overload it will

knock you out it'll not just like if somebody punched you and knocked you out a sensory overload happens real quick so you'll get in the car and what happens in a car sensory overload bam it knocked you out it knocked you out and then you wake up and there's no more nothing's moving you start doing it again then you pass out i mean i've been pulled over numerous times pulled out of the car and i'm never drinking that's the and all they knew to look for was drinking and they'd pull me over yank me out of the car start yelling at me i had a cop listen to this he came to my mom's This cop in this town knew me so well. He was he was he was he was he was.

He was, I was driving him nuts with my little antics running around doing stupid shit. Well, one day I legitimately went to the goddamn gas station. Legitically, uh, got $5 worth the gas now who's going to steal $5 with the gas? I filled my tank up by any, any reason I wasn't stealing anything. I jumped and I went inside bought a pack of cigarettes, everything. It just did they didn't add. I didn't steal anything. They didn't add the five bucks to it.

And I didn't catch it. It was like 20 bucks. I don't know. was the five they gave they they they turned the pump on and i put my five dollars with gas i drove down to my mom's house and i i i was watching tv or something and about an hour later not even an hour later 30 minutes later bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo fop fucking cop's pounding on the door and i'm like i'm not i was you know what goes through your mind oh my guys are warrants what's go i'm like i ain't there's nothing going on open the door and he's like god damn it duclemyer this is the last time

i've had it with you here's what you're going to do you're going to get in that car right now and you're going to drive up to cases and I'm going to follow you and you're going to pay him their god damn he's going off and screaming heavy about it I said hey man that okay look I look I went in the store I didn't have any I don't I don't want to hear it I've heard it before I don't I don't talk about it in your car right now I said okay dude so you know I run out I move my slippers or whatever and I jump in my car but um that's happening to me I'm centri-off I'm passing out while this cop is behind me following me the gas station and he just talk to me. He doesn't think I'm drunk or anything, right? He's not thinking this, but I can't deal

with it. It's only a couple blocks, but I'm, I can't, I'm trying to draw it. And I'm all over the road, but I get there. He's behind me. He walks me in the Casey's and they go, he's like, I got him. Get your money, you know, whatever. And so I paid him. And I said, hey, man, I'm sorry. You know, and he's like, I had it, Bicklemyar, that's enough. I don't want to see you again. I'm telling you right now. I don't want to, I don't want to hear about you. I don't want to see you again. and the next time it's gonna be a worse deal and I said okay okay cool and I'm walking back to the pump

and he gets in his car dude I swear to God he sits in his car and he's getting ready to close the door but he doesn't he's got he can't stop he's got to say something else so he opens up the door and he goes by the way you're the worst goddamn fucking driver I've ever seen in my life it's ridiculous

get your fucking head out of your ass he didn't know I was high he just thought it was a bad driver it was funny dude you should have been there Oh, my God. Ranting and raving about me stealing $5 with a gas, which I didn't even do. You know what I mean? That must have been in the time before I get kicked.

I got 86 from Casey and get this. I go to jail two years later, man. Two effing years later, I went to that gas station. I'm like, they would never recognize me in a million years. There's no way. I was driving through this town all the time. I pull in there. And totally in good faith, I'm going to pump some gas and go pay for the gas.

You know what I mean? I was, I'm not thinking anything criminal law. the reason I go to case is because you can pump and then pay right you can pump your gas and go get your business on well I put the thing in there and I hit and I call the lady up I'm like hey can you turn the pump on and she's like no and I'm like oh here we go again why why not turn the pump on she goes I was told never to turn the pump on for you and I said oh really I said turn the fuck to pump on and I'm calling the cops turn the pump on right now turn the pump on and she turned it on

She turned it on in the hot film. She turned the pomp on dude and I went in and paid for. I couldn't believe it. She thought I was going to call a cops on her. What could I do? She could have just told me to fucking stick it. So I never went back. I think they shut that story down.

But who, what a low life. Get kicked out at Casey's, man. The 86th are my cases. The honor, do they have those in Florida? No. Let me tell you. Listen, they have, they go out. And like you did with the, with the recruiting of the homeless people to get the IDs.

That's what they do to get employees. They go out and petition to get the worst people in the world to work in their store. They have to qualify. Look, are you on welfare? Do you have zero customer skills? You know what I mean? Do you hate customers, in fact? Do you not want to sweep the floor?

You know, and they're just the worst people, crack heads and junkies and everything else that work there. It's totally the opposite of, you have quick chips and quick chips there? No, we got, we have a racetrack. and you have a good station that everybody goes to like you know there's there's one uh we have around here that's the most uh efficient most unbelievable they have freaking lawyers work and people that are uh you have to have a 750 credit score to get a job there they there's these are professional people work really they do you your credit score has to be flawless you these people are so professional and so the floors are spotless everything's perfect everything's being replaced there's

nothing missing ever it's just and it's called quick trip and they're all around this area. But Casey's is the opposite of that. They hire all these cities, but the thing is they got the best food. I mean, just out pizza is phenomenal and a bunch of other services that they have. Like, you could pump, you know, pump before you pay shit like that. So they're around and they specialize in being in small towns. So they're the only gas station other than little mom pop shops that are in these small

towns around here. Every small town had a Casey's before had anything else, you know. But they're hiring practices and they're just, oh my God, dude. I went around around that Casey's for years and the manager knew me and she kind of liked me. She knew I wasn't a bad guy, but you know, she eventually got fed up with a tire thing. She came to my house that they were coming to my house, dude. Somebody in the kitchen knew where I lived and they were knocking on my door. I'm like, what are you doing here?

It's the Casey's manager with another employee. You need to get back up there and pay for this woman's tires. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She says, hey, listen, we got you on camera. And I said, really? Because I'm pretty sure if you had me on camera, you'd be calling the cops. And the cops would be here, but they're not, and you are. So I don't think you have me on camera.

And guess what else? I didn't do it. Oh, yeah, we're not buying that, you know. And here's how they tried to get this is funny. They tried to get me. Dora Police Department found out I had a felony warrant. So that's the first people that called me. The Dora Police Department guy calls me.

He says, hey, Bicklemyer, they know me. Hey, Dave, how you doing? hey what's going on johnson or whatever his name is uh he says oh uh what happened with you up at caseys what are you talking about i said uh he goes you know what i'm talking about and i said no i don't know what you're talking about i i heard something about what you might be talking about but i don't know anything he goes why don't you come talk to me about that i think we could straighten it out and i said what what did you say he said yeah i want to can you meet me at such and i'm like that was the very first hint that really that there was a problem this was on the way to the

clinic in the morning. That cop said that to me. I'm like, what do you say? You go, can you meet me at a, uh, uh, uh, why don't you just meet me up at Casey's or whatever? And I said, okay, okay, I got some errands to run, but, uh, yeah, okay, we'll talk about it. And all the way there, I'm like, man, why would that cop? Why would you want to meet me something? That's weird. That is weird. You, I said, uh, and so I called him back. I said, uh, hey, uh, listen, uh, uh, do I have some warrants? What are you doing? I mean, I'm not stupid, dude. Listen, I'm not, I'm not going to meet you with Casey. I mean, we both know that. I'm not coming to Casey. You got my number. You can call me anytime you want to want. I mean, he's like, well, I just want to talk to you. And I said, come on, dude. What is it? He wouldn't say, right? And neither would. I don't think my probation officer ever really said what the charges were. What is that? Why is that a secret? I'm like, the cops don't know. The cops don't know what the charges are. The probation officer doesn't know. I mean, they know it's a felony warrant, and usually they won't come looking for you.

I don't know how it is in Florida, but they won't come after you religiously or they won't purposely come for you unless it's a felony warrant, usually. Now, I had a speeding ticket, and I'm sitting on my fucking couch, mind my own business with a speeding warrant. Who cares? And they kicked my door in. They didn't have to kick very hard, and they might not have kicked twice, but they did kick the fucking door. and come in my house and got me over a speeding ticket i couldn't i'm like are you fucking that bored that you got to come around and harass me or a speeding ticket well maybe it's you maybe you maybe you required out of attention in that i had the whole county i had the whole county

up in arms dude i mean one thing i did was forgot to mention this this is part of why john wouldn't take the case this is the whole part i threatened the uh i threatened to uh i was serious i i meant this when i said it i called some one of the county uh somebody in the county and said i was gonna blow up the building and i was i was fucking serious i was like i'm there blow that mother you know what i mean well i'm terrorist threats that's what got it that's got him i think not to uh uh want anything to do with the case i think it was a some some some Dude, the publicity or something. But another thing that happened was, I was in a pharmacy in Dora.

All I'm doing, dude, listen to this. I'm talking on the phone, merely talking on the phone to a reporter, of all things. I won't get into while I was talking to this reporter. But it had something to do with a gun. I can't even remember the word gun got brought up in this conversation. And the cops came there and tried to arrest me, tried to arrest me inside of the pharmacy. right why yeah exactly why because I don't know they they the the pharmacy or so somebody in the pharmacy must have got shook up about the you know I was animated like

that talking on the phone you know another time me and my wife were arguing I was at the swimming pool I think I told you this I'm not the swimming pool okay mine in my own business I got my phone with me and it was all I somehow I just called my wife and my phone still on and she heard me say something to another woman all i said was hey you look you you're looking good or something like that well she blows up and starts screaming on the right and i start screaming back but kind of not even really freaking out the effing cops show up at the swimming pool dude this is this is all this shit's true i swear you can look it up and they show up at the swing pool and tried to take me to jail at the swing pool they

had me out in the parking lot oh they never handcuffs me but almost and if they would have if if i wouldn't have known the cop and all you know almost took me to jail over over over over talking to my wife so guess what they wouldn't let me leave it to like tracked her down and made sure that she was safe i'm like what do you think i got her hitting in my swimming trunks or under my towel it's like a kidnapped her or something you know what i mean it was it was just ridiculous it's none of it was my fault man i didn't do anything to deserve any of that you know what i'm saying how can i i don't know i feel like yeah so so when i got out of jail i thought man i better shut up i better shut up i don't want to know who the cops are

in this channel and luckily that like the chief of police or whatever they all they've all have retired and grown up and they don't you know what i mean but when i go back to that that jail to go to the i went there the other day for a traffic ticket twice i had to and since then and they all know me they're hey man what he this is what they say man you got fat you got fat you know you gained a bunch of weight you look you know i'm like yeah well that's what happens when you know stop doing that you know everybody gets that's what usually happens they said well it's you know they were pretty cool the jail was pretty respectful. But here's one thing. Why would they start? Why do they try to starve people in jail? I don't. What, what benefit is that, man? What do you think they're doing there by not allowing people to eat

enough? What's their purpose of that? You don't know that. Saving money. Saving money. We're trying to save money. You think that, now listen, don't you think like 90% of the problems in jail are related to food issues and stuff like that? You think they would, why can they just serve an extra? I mean, doesn't it seem like it would be beneficial to freaking feed people to get them to stop being so I don't know I don't know but we're we're in excess of three and a half hour okay all right yeah I'm tired and it's 10 you know you don't listen to my pot you don't listen to my podcast all the time and constantly do this listen I work all day so I watch all the shit you do and I'm constantly wanting to argue with you I'm like I just I want to jump through the

stream be like no dude that's not you know this is what are you talking about you know you have and so and you don't know me so number now you can text me hey i appreciate you guys watching please share the video consider joining my patreon and leave me a comment i really appreciate it and please think about uh also buying a book all the links are in the description box see you