Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Most Corrupt Cops in America (Full Story)

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

The Most Corrupt Cops in America (Full Story)

I was a holodecorate officer. This is my department coming at me because I spoke out against corruption within the agency. I think Ford was just a different approach. I'm going to get mine. And everybody trusted me. I was the sheriff, you know? They arrest you and get you scared. And if you don't plead guilty, then they do an investigation.

When I was corrupt, I knew the real guys in there that made a lot of money on the street. I kind of became like a businessman. Who would ever think that the sheriff would be in it? That night at 6.30, I get a phone call. got a 43 count indictment on you. So 1117, 1986 is when I got hired with the Barre Sheriff Office as a detention officer. I was called out of the jail to work narcotics, you know, so since they were choosing certain individuals, you know, who has street level, you know, knowledge or whatnot, you know, you can

use the street lingo, like, yo, my nigger, I got them Paule's what's happening, you know, and that type of language or whatnot, you know. And, of course, they had me and several other guys. they brought out of the jail, and we would go out and we pose as undercover sellers. So we had informants that we were sent into a certain particular location. Once that informant go there, we give them the zip-locked packages with the cocaine rock. There's a serial number on the package, and also the money was always marked. So we would send that informant into the location, and that informant would make the transaction

with the dealer, and would come back and give us the intel in reference to who, the person was they made contact with what they were wearing and whatnot and of course um we will move in you know backup will move in and take those guys into custody and then we would get out there and pose as undercover sellers but yeah there's some guys that they could just you know because they can spot the you know if you're on the street you can you can almost always spot them like you got to know how to talk oh yeah and not only that you know um when if you're from the street you know you can really tell you back in the days they call them 50 and 99 yeah yo man Yo, my nigger was hiding, man, they go 99, 5-0.

You know, that's the type of street lingo that they used back in the days. They say, hey, there's the cops. You know, the cops are coming, you know, especially if they was out there selling drugs because when I came here to Fort Lauderdale, the park, which is called Franklin Park, it was notorious for illegal activity. Always constantly, you know, drug activity going on out there. You know, it was on a regular basis. You got four, five, six guys running up the car.

cars you know you got about four or five guys in one car trying to sell money you know to get the person to buy the rock and of course a lot of times you know these people man um how do i know this is because i was out there selling myself right and um he got to a point where i began to watch a lot of corruption goes on you know where they was planting drugs they were being young black offenders to the ground they was taking money from them i told him that it was morally wrong totally unethical and I was not going to engage indulge in that practice. One of the location that we went to, they were selling the cocaine rocks for like $50 and $60 in this particular location. A rock cost $10. So at the end of the night, you're supposed to take all the drugs and the money

and you put in a manila folder and you put red tape on there, it saves evidence. And of course, and you put a, you know, a signature on there. So just in case someone trying to break that seal, you'll know that it's, you know, it's been tampered with. And these, these, you know, These guys were leaving with all kind of thousands of dollars. And I say, you know, you know better than the ones we just put in the peddle wagon. You guys should be going to jail yourself. They told me to mind my business. I said, what do you mean mind my business?

I said, you guys are just as guilty as the one that we just arrested not too long ago. And this is when you were in the jail and they pulled you out? When they pulled me out. But also I started working out there and I think it was around about 1998 and 99, you know, when I was working with drug task force, OCD. which is organized crime in the crater within a thousand feet of a school three years in state penitentiary

and, of course, we was out there doing by buses but we would sell drugs to the, you know, the sellants and we did a sweep first. We take all the drug dealers off the street. We put them in a peddle wagon and, of course, we get out there, our commander come to us and give us X amount of rocks and money to make transaction with the subjects

as they come to purchase the drug, the narcotics. And what we used to do, we either tip our hat or we'll take the towel off our shoulder, and that gives the indication to backup for them to move in and take the person in custody. So when backup proceed to move in, we'll run away like we had nothing to do with the situation,

you know, because that's what most do. Yeah, that's what they do, yeah. Yeah. So, okay, so you're telling these guys, hey, you guys are pulling, you know, your, you're basically, you're pocketing money like you guys are pulling you know the other officers are putting money in their own pocket yes right they're telling you mind your own business

yes even though like you know me just having been in the system seeing the way things work to me it's like oh no like if i'm here you're including me in the conspiracy like if i'm just here knowing about it right like so it is my business you know exactly and that's one of the reason i told my solicit man i don't get on like that man you guys are wrong you know this molly wrong and totally unethical what you guys doing They told me, mind my business. What do you mean mind my business? I said, you guys are no different than the ones we just arrested and put in the pedigagon.

You guys should be going downtown yourself. And at this point, you know, it came to, you know, they didn't like me being out there. They was like, hey, you can't work out here anymore. I said, I don't give a flying, you know what. And we're going to put you back in the jail. I said, I started in the jail. So they put me back in the jail. I think I was working on the sixth floor.

And, of course, I go home. I went to work, and I worked from 73. When I came home, I think I went to bed around about maybe 3, 3.30, it took a shower and went to bed. I normally wake up around about 5, 5.30 to go in my backyard and work out. I had over 600 some pounds in my backyard. And the process of me going to work out, I look across the street at the sit go, and there's either the drug task force or the SWAT team mounting up. So I told my neighbor who was working out with me, I said, man, that's either the drug task force or a SWAT team over there, you know, and when they saw me, they all jumped in the cars and sped down the back street. So I told him, I said, let's go to the front of my yard, man.

So when I get to the front of my yard, you know, 60-some cops stormed me at gunpoint, had me and my kids at gunpoint. My kids were 12 and 7 years of age during this time. My wife had gone to Win Dixie, you know, I guess to pick up some grocery. And I think it was my oldest daughter that called my wife and said, hey, mommy, you know, they got daddy here. And so I'm asking them question. I said, you know, what is this for? You're Ray Hicks? I said, you guys know I'm Ray Hicks, man.

What's the problem? We got one for your arrest. I said, want for who arrest? What did I do? And so this black guy named Ricky Clark, he come patting me at my shoulder, assuring me that everything was going to be okay. So I'm like, what, he's like, Ray, calm down. I said, man, Rick, what do you mean, calm down, Ricky? I said, what the freak you mean?

Ricky, calm down. I said, what did you? You guys got a warrant for my arrest for what? What did I do? Tell me what I did? Well, we can't discuss it. What do you mean you can't discuss it right now? So then Rob Shaw from Internal Affairs, he says, Ray, we're going to place short suspension

pending the outcome of this case. I'm like, what case? So he asked me, you know, if I had some. My wife, she was still at Win Dixie. They're going in my house, ripping up, you know, searching for drugs and stuff, money and all this other crazy crap, they said. You know, I'm there handcuffed in my garage. So all of a sudden, my wife shows up. She's patented out of chest, like she's having heart palpitations, you know.

The kids are screaming, you know, like what's going on? And so Rob Saar would say, Ray, we're going to suspend you pending the outcome of this case. I'm like, what case? And nobody would tell me. So there they're, I'm handcuffed. And, of course, as they handcuffed me, the guy Bernard Brown, the tape that I played for you guys, you know, that it was him who arrested me and put me on a cruiser and took me down to District 5. So when I get to District 5, I'm still asking questions. Why am I here?

What are you guys arrested me for? And then it was like, well, Ray, we can't discuss. I said, what do you mean you guys can't discuss it? They at least tell you why you've been arrested. Right. But they wouldn't tell me. nothing. So then they later transported me over to the city jail. So I get to the city jail and I'm still asking a question. Why am I here? So they placed me in solitary confinement.

So the very next day, the marshal shows up. I'm like, whoa, what the freak is the marshes doing here? This is serious. So of course, the marshal said, well, we're here to take you to court. I'll say, take me to court for what? I said, well, you guys, nobody's telling me what I'm here for because if they told me what they would come to get me for, they probably would have killed me that day because I've never been in trouble in my entire life. I've never tried a marijuana cigarette in my entire life. I never took a drink a day in my entire life until after this whole entire incident. And they're the marshes, they handcuffed me and shikers, put me in an unmarked cruiser and take me over to federal court. So when I get to federal court, my mom and

my wife sitting in the audience. So the DA says, when Mr. Hicks is at work, he's in the top 10% of his department. But when he's not at work, he's into other curricular activity. When you look in this book, I'm Toddler, I'm still standing. You're going to see I brought the documents to show that I was a gold cross recipient. I was a civil cross recipient. I was two-time deputy of the month. Never been in trouble in my entire life.

And she said, when he's at work, he's in the top. 10% of the department. When he's not at work, he's into other curricular activity. He went to various states to live in 350 kilograms of cocaine that was equivalent to $750 million. You had no idea this was coming. This is just complete, you're just like, you didn't know there was an investigation and they're just,

and she says that. No, I went to work that day. Came home, went to work out, and I see them mounting up across the street. Right. And I'm like, you know, telling my neighbor, like, That must be the drug task force of the SWAT team. What are you thinking this, this is, like, are you thinking at this point I'm being set up or are you thinking this is a mistake? No, I'm thinking that this has to be a mistake.

I said, and then the judge says to me, well, you're not a flight risk because I didn't have a passport at the time. She said, but you're a minister to society. Whoa. Just based on. I'm a minister to society. How do you go from being a highly decorated officer to a minister society? The only way you can get a gold cross recipient is by risking your life to save another individual life. I risked my life doing an armed car jacket where one round went through the roof of the car.

this guy I thought it was an armed robbery this young kid I didn't even know what was going on I happened to be coming down driving down the street there's a taxi that's at the red light and when the taxi pulled up to the red light when the light turned green the taxi merges into the fence so I see these two black guys fighting

so I said let me just stop and break up the fight so in the process of breaking up the fight I discovered that they wrestled over 357 Magnum One round went through the roof of the car The subject took a chunk out of the victim's eye But I took the gun from him And the subject took off running So I got on my phone and car communication advisor

A signal 041 that just transpired And I set up a perimeter They later arrested this 18 year old Come to find out He got in the taxi cab off a 6 drunk And the taxi took him off of 21st Avenue In Oakland Park To an apartment

according to the report that I read. He went upstairs and retreated the gun, came back downstairs, and told the taxi cab driver to get in the passenger seat. And he got in the driver's seat. So as I'm coming down the street, the taxi cab driver

saw a chance that the grab of stern and wheel, and that's when the vehicle emerged into the fence. And I happen to be coming down the street at the same time. I get the Gold Cross Award. The highest award that anyone could ever receive without getting killed in line of duty. Now you're a menaceous society. The very next year, I'm a minister society.

I'm faced with natural life for imprisonment without possible parole for drug trafficking charges. So what do you say to your lawyer? What's happening? What do you ask your lawyer? What's going on? Well, they gave me a court appointed attorney. Right.

And of course, the judge, she sentenced me. She gave me a no bond hole. Wouldn't even give me a bond. She gave me a no bond hole. They put me at the federal detention center in Miami. And when I arrived there, they treat me like I was, the doest come on the faith of this earth. There's a certain way that you strip search an inmate. But the way that they called himself handling me was inhumane.

And I told them, and I told them about it. And next thing, you know, they went to get me on an orange jumper and took me up and put me in the hole. I stayed in the hole for five months. So what is your, I mean, when did you meet with your, the public defender? What is he came, he came a few days after, you know, and he says, Ray, I was appointed, his name was Marty Fakingbaum. He said, I was appointed by the court to come and represent you. I said, okay, sir, and we sat down, we talked like you and I are speaking right now.

Right. And he asked me, I said, first of all, why am I here? I said these people said that I was trafficking cocaine I said that's a lie I got documents in here to show you that I'm at work I said I said first of all how could I be traveling to these various states to live in 350 kilograms of cocaine my wife worked at night at the postal service I was there with my two daughters I said and furthermore I'm at work when they said I was traveling to all these states I'm at work what's amazing to me Matt is the fact that the Briar Sheriff Office has a fiduciary duty in internal affairs that if a man or woman committed a crime, they have to call you the eye in there for questioning.

They have to give you a garrie statement. At no time did they ever ask me, they never asked me if I was associated or affiliated with any type of wrongdoing, anything of that nature. They just showed up in my home. These are the same guys that Ixel went into my vehicle. My wife and I had bought a Mercedes and my brother was washing the car. and as my brother was watching the car the same task force drug task force

go in the car without a search warrant searched the car and said how could I afford this type of vehicle it was a Mercedes but the car had expensive embells on the back of it

the car was a 1993 400 SEL but they had V12 V600 on the back of it on the side it said V12 and on the back it said S600 So BSO, these officers that went in the car, said, oh, he must have been selling drugs to own this type of automobile.

Where's the camera on this car? So my brother said, man, you guys know who that is? That's my brother. He worked for the sheriff department. My identification was in the console of the car. These are the same people who showed up in my home and took me into custody, who arrested me. But they're the ones that equipped, not me. And I told my attorney this, you know, I said, listen, you.

You need to do your homework, man. I said, because I say, and furthermore, I'm not going to take something that I didn't do. He says, Ray, I'm telling you, you're faced with natural life imprisonment. This is the Feds. The Fares got a 98.8% conviction rate. I told him, I said, God got a conviction rate of 0% and I'm not taking anything. I wouldn't even take time served. I'm going to trial, man.

And he told me, says, Ray, he said, so he did his own investigation. And he said, Ray, on the manuscript, write down. everything that happened, he said, because one day this could possibly be a bestseller book, maybe a movie. I took his advice. And I began to write. And then all of a sudden, they gave me another court upon an attorney. Mr. Ruben Garcia, he come in and under coercion, he says, Raymond, listen, you're faced with a lot of time, young man. I said, I'm not faced for nothing. So I'm constantly getting to an argument with these guys because they're trying to force me to take a plea for something I have not done. I said, I'm going to tell you to

same thing I told Mr. Faginbaum, I refuse to take anything. I won't even take time served. I'd rather go to, I'd rather go to prison for the rest of my life, because I'm not going to admit to something that I did not do. Have you got discovery by this point? Do you have any, have you seen any evidence that they have, or is it just a police statement? No, they never gave me the discovery to two weeks prior to trial. What is the discovery? What does it say? The discovery was saying something to the fact that the informant, Ansel Pratt, the guy who I was just showing you guys earlier. He was arrested on 111 of 2000 for

aggravated assault with the firearm. But he chased this man down the street, Mr. Eddie Frazier, chased the man down the street because he went to collect his money for dumping N. Cell Pratt trash. So next thing, the Browry Sheriff Officer arrest him, and that's

the same guy they used as an informant. They paid him, $20,000, $15,000 to come in and lie and testify against me to say that me and my co-defendants was actually into drug transaction, which was a lie. We was all working out. The warehouse that we worked out in, there was professional athletes, there was police

officers, there was people from the community, everybody worked out there. And this guy, Ansel Pratt, who was a compulsive liar. And as a matter of fact, he said on December 24th, 1999, him and his wife was at a red light. And he said, I pulled up next to them and put my, point my finger. out the window that I was going to shoot the two of them. So finally, my wife went through her thrift savings. She got an attorney by the name of Michael Bloom. Mr. Bloom was a federal attorney, never lost the case in 15 years.

And when he came to visit me, he said, Ray, you're not a drug dealer. He told my wife and my mother, he said, your husband and your son is not a drug dealer. I know a drug dealer when I see one. He's definitely not one of them. I'm going to do everything within my power to help him get home. And Mr. Bloom subpoenaed Ansel Pratt's wife. Her name was Ms. Shirley Pratt. She worked for the Postal Service.

She came in and he actually said, ma'am, on December 24 of your husband testified to the court and the jury that my client pointed his finger at the two of you at a red light and motioned that he was going to shoot you. She said, my husband is telling the lie. She said, my husband and I was not even together on December 24th, 1999. And she said, and furthermore, he's a compulsive liar. But I found out later that it was him and a detective who went in my car that went to the grand jury. Did they ever find any drugs, any evidence? There was never no drugs. It's just, well, I mean, saying they could have planted drugs.

It was all fabricated. So it's just one guy giving a statement and they get an indictment against you for selling whatever it is 300 kilos of. of cocaine or something. Yes. And as a matter of fact, this guy was a compulsive liar because he also said that he saw a duffer bag that was filled with cocaine and money.

He said 350 kilograms of coke. You can't even get 350 kilograms of coke in a freaking bag with 750 million dollars. That's the biggest lie they ever been told. And during the court trial, you're going to read in this book, right here. I'm still standing where he said that there was a bag. When they played the tape for the jury and the judge, it was a vacuum cleaner. It was one of those huge vacuum cleaner

where you vacuum cleaner and trucks and stuff. That's what it was, a vacuum cleaner. It was not even a duffer bag, as he said, were full with cocaine and money. He lied there. Then he lied and said I was giving confidential law enforcement information. This informant, FCIC, NCIC. attorney, he actually subpoenaed the communication operator. Her name is Kathy Munez. She came in and testified. She said, Mr. Hicks has not ran this information. And she went on to say, you have to take a 40-hour course. There's a certificate of completion from FDLE, and there's a sign-in sheet, and you have to use a social security number. She said, Mr. Hicks, has not ran this information. Right. So your certificate, your everything would already be in the computer showing you pulled that

report. Exactly. And it wasn't there. exactly well did you have so did you have did you had you was there any way for them to prove that you'd ever had communication with this guy no there was no communication none so this is just some random guy that they got that they said hey that look we're having an issue with this officer you need to say this exactly they get this on recording they debriefed him they debriefed him and for him to say exactly what i'm conveying to you all right now and then they get an indictment based on that information. Yes. They get an indictment, you know, from the information that was given to the grand jury by the detective who arrested me, by the detective who Ixel went in my car

and searched my car without probable cause, Richard Passanti and Joe Damiano. And I'm saying to myself, how is it that these people can do this, man? You know, you, you know, first of all, how do you defend yourself when these guys are going to the grand jury? You don't get a chance to talk to the grand jury. Right. So they said I was dealing all these drugs and money when, in fact, it's the biggest lie they ever been told. I got record records. I went back and did a thorough investigation after all this stuff. And as a matter of fact, how about this?

They said I was on audio tape. The same tape that I played for you guys a day that I sent to this brother, Kobe, you know, is the same person who arrested me. It's the same person that was on the tape giving the information. they said I gave. It's in the book, and it's titled Missing Documents Turned Up in Deputy Lawsuit. They thought it was my voice on the wiretap. It was, it was the deputy who arrested me. All of them was promoted to a higher rank.

All right, so at this point, so, and I was going to say, then they give you two attorneys that are basically trying to tell you, take a deal. Well, they got off the case. Right, I understand. Now you got a new attorney. Yes. He's saying, I'm going to, we're going to go to trial. so you're going to go to trial.

What's happening just, you said two weeks beforehand, you find this at all, you get the, the, the discovery, you realize, okay, they don't really, they've got basically one guy. Right. And so you're moving forward. You've obviously got multiple instances where you can prove that the informant is lying. You're going to go to, you're headed toward trial. Does the U.S. attorney, typically the U.S. attorney, if they don't think they can win or they think something's funky, they're going to try and come to you and trying to get you. you take some kind of deal. And that's what they did.

What you just said is paramount. Okay. Because they come to me and they tell, before I get Mr. Bloom to represent me, before my wife go through her Thrift Savant, with the court of point attorney, Mr. Ruben Garcia, they offered me 16 and a half months. They say, Mr. Hickson, he come telling me, Ray, you've been down for 11 and a half months.

They want to offer you 16 and a half months, but you want to testify against these other six people. I told him, I'm not testifying against nobody. If they did wrong, you go get them. But you're not going to use me. I said, I worked out with these guys in the gym. We were seeing who was the strongest. I said, but the thing about it, I'm not going to go in there

admit to something that I don't have no knowledge of. If they did something wrong, you go get them. But you're definitely not going to use me. You're not going there and lie on these people. Well, they can give you a 5K1. You've been down for 11 and a half months. You'll do three more months and go home and you'll be with your wife and kids. And I told him, I said, let me.

tell you something, Mr. It got to a point that the officers in visitation had to come in because really I wanted to come across that table at him to let him know who the freak you think you're playing with, man. My wife and kids suffering right now and you're trying to get me to take time for something that I didn't do. I told him, I said, I'm told the first attorney. I'm going to tell you the same thing. I'd rather take life imprisonment. So what I did, Matt, is I set him up. I set him up. I said Mr. Garcia. I said, Mr. Garcia. I said, say, you know what? I begin to give him information that I knew about that happened at the Briar Sheriff Office, such as a pyramid scheme where they had over 200 some officers affiliated

with this pyramid scheme. It's punishable up under five years in Florida State Prison and a $5,000 fine. And I began to tell him about the corruption that I witnessed when I was out there, working narcotics and everything else. But I did that because I knew he was going to go back and he was going to feed this information to the DA, which is what he did. the United States Attorney. And, of course, he came back to me and pulled me out. And he says, hey, I went to lunch with the district attorney. And she said that you're not in here because of the corruption,

but you're in here because of your environment. And that's when I wrote a letter, a thorough letter that I got a typewriter, placed on the floor where I was in Seven West. And, of course, the letter said, is that, per our conversation, I never gave you authorization to go and discuss my information with the DA, which is protected upon attorney-client privileges. Why would you go discuss this information with her without my authorization?

And that's when he made a decision. He said, you know what? Okay, I'm getting off this case. So finally my wife went through her thrift and she was able to, you know, to get the attorney come and represent me. But if I may just back up for a second, Matt, you know, When I tell you, these people literally try to destroy me, man, they put me in the hole for five months.

Total darkness. And the officer was jiggering at me every single day. You're that effing cop. You're that crooked cop. I hope you're gone for the rest of your life. I told him, I said, no, I was no cricket cop. I was a highly decorated officer. Yeah, but you tell it to the court.

I said, I will tell it to the court. And it got to a point where I started pushing the emergency button in the unit. You know, there's a red button. inside the unit for emergency purposes, and I started pushing it repeatedly, because at this point, I started doing like 1,500 push-ups every other day, because I'm conditioned my body, my mind, because I know that at some point I'm going to go to war. And Mr. Fernandez, I know, forget him, the longest day I live, he called me out, and he says, Ray, he said, you come here, and they handcuffed me and shackled me.

They had me put my hand through the slot where they feed you. They handcuffed me. Then they came in and shackled me and took me to his office. And when I got to his office, I said, I have 90s spoken to my kids and my wife. And he gave me a phone call. And after that phone call, you know, it was heart-wrenching, man.

You know, they hear my wife and kids. And, you know, and he says, Ray, listen, the only other way you're going to be able to use the phone man, you know, besides your attorney, is you're going to have to go down the general population. I told him, I don't care where you put me. And, of course, they put me in GP.

They put me in general population. I was down there with eight guys who I had arrested or I was over when I worked in the jail. And every last one of gave me the utmost respect. They were like, no, man, not you, big Hicks, no, man.

And here come this black dude that saw my picture parade over the newscast from Dade County, you know, talking about he hate effing cops, you know? and one of the guys that knew me, Mario, he said, man, you know who that is? He said, you know who that is, man? That's Big Hicks.

He said, he comes from where we come from. And all of a sudden, you know, I goes in there to put down my bed roll, and as I'm putting down my bed row, there he is. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Neeson. Buy your tickets now.

And get a free chili dog. Chili dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. There's 122 inmates in the unit. And, of course, I go and put my bed row down. There he is in the door.

Because they don't gather around the door. I told him, I say, dude, you got a problem with me? I said, come on in here. We can handle this like men. You're running your mouth. You're bumping your gums. I said, come on in here. We can handle it as like men.

So what he tried to do, he tried to rush me. And when he tried to rush me, I literally tried to beat him to death. I've been fighting ever since I was six years of age, man. Every since I was six years old, I've been fighting. And anybody that know me from the streets to tell you, man, you know, it's a shame, it's a disgrace, man. It's a disgrace. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, man, what these people's put me through.

But I literally try to kill him, Matt. I try to put my fist through his brains. And all of a sudden, the officer ran there, because there was only one officer in the unit, he ran up and everybody scattered, you know, and they finally moved this guy to 8 West, 9 West, wherever. I don't know where he went. The only long as they got him from around me,

because I really wanted to finish him, to be honest with you. Because they had a, and the fares reached to get sardines, and that lid is like a razor blade, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And the jumper that we wore, the green jumper that we wore, you know, I kept me, I kept me a cap with me, be honest with you. Because I know at this point, you know, I'm in a situation. I mean, come on, man, you can't take an officer and put them in general, GP.

That's a death threat, man. If a person don't know how to defend themselves, you, listen, you're done. But you know what's a strange, you know what strange might, is that even while I was there as an inmate, and you can see it in the book I won a life-saving award the officer walked out the unit had to go to the restroom and all of a sudden

this black guy who was shot in his head a long time ago he started having seizures and convulsion where he swallowed his tongue so the guy started calling me big homie big homie man come so I ran out on the rec yard

and there he is he swallowed his tongue So the warden of the institution Give me a life-saving award So the same type of officer That I was out in the for the Brown Sheriff Office Is the same thing I'm displaying While I'm an inmate

Faced with natural life imprisonment Without possible parole Well, I was going to say Like it'd be different Like putting an officer Or an FBI agent or a DEA agent Something in a low security prison Where it's a protective custody

It's vastly different than you sticking them in general population you're going to get killed like you know not not that you're going to get killed but i mean it's extremely dangerous because you do you have some of those guys that just they they're they have no reason at all like they hate cops there or they're gang members and they've got a vendetta against cops or there's a group of them and they're against cops and they just hate them and there's no there's nothing you can do about it they're going to come after you so when when he said general population i thought oh no got he put me a GP um so So did you, what ended up happening with?

So going back to the trial, so the judge asked the question, where the drugs? No drugs, ready money, no money. He said, so what do you mean, why is this, you mean to tell me you have nothing to substantiate the charges? This was the chief judge, Judge Wrecker. Judge Wreck would give you a million years. His mustache was rolled up at the end, you know? This man didn't even play. I mean, he would give you a million years and thought nothing of it.

and he said, you mean to tell me you bring a highly decorated officer in my courtroom, you have nothing to substantiate the charges? Why is he here? So they lied and said I was giving confidence to law enforcement information. They found out through testimony, Captain Munez, she said, I worked in this capacity for 25 years. Mr. Hicks has not ran this information. It's controlled through his social security number.

Then they lied and said I was on audio tape. When they played the audio tape, they found out that it was the same person who arrested me. The same tape that I played for you guys, Internal Affairs called him down there. Did this happen all at the first hearing or this play out during a trial? No, this played out doing trial. Okay. And of course, the jury deliberated. They came back with the not guilty verdict within 30 minutes. How long did you do in jail? 16 and half months. Did they reinstate the chart? Do they try and go, you know, because

you know, well, it's not guilty. Okay. So no, it's not guilty. They're done. You know, it's nothing yeah we're done there's nothing they can do no do you walk out right then yeah the judge the judge walked my he as a matter of fact he allowed my wife to bring me food from the outside from papa john to kFC from tom jick and barbecue um and and to me and and the rest of my cold defendants well okay so it wasn't just you it's the whole group yes was there anything anything along was it was basically all of the evidence gear towards you or them also. This is just your workout buddies.

Yeah, these are guys that, these guys that I worked out with. And they were trying to say that these guys, apparently BSO had an investigation going on with them, right? And they were trying to, because I spoke out. Yeah, because I spoke out against the corruption. They just took me and threw me in the pot to say that, you know, I'm a drug dealer. These guys were no drug dealers. These guys were actually delivering Coca-Cola with 18 wheel of truck from here to Jacksonville.

And I'm saying to myself, what did they get, they got all the information from this freaking, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this one thing is for sure. You know, you can do things wrong to people. I don't care if it's me, my wife, my mother, my kids, or whoever. At some point, it's going to come back to you. This, the guy who arrested me, Bernard Brown, he was 50 something, about 54 years of age, he just died recently. for what reason I don't even know Ansel Pratt The one that they're informing Who they call himself using He had a massive stroke Had five massive stroke

Couldn't even He can feed himself He can walk He couldn't talk He couldn't clean himself No nothing He just died recently The sergeant that I went to

From Internal Affairs Who said he was going to conduct The thorough investigation Because he said that he heard That from other people Who had filed complaints against those officers that went in my car where he recently passed away.

So, you know, one thing is for sure, it's my relationship with God. It's my relationship with God. It's my family. Because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation, man. I'd rather for you to kill me than for you to put me through

what you put me and my wife and kids through. I lost everything I lost my home my cars my finances I couldn't even feed my family and it got to a point that I started drinking

I never took a drink a day in my life I went to the hospital for anxiety to depression five times and I'm saying to myself how could these people do this to me man when I work my way out of the hood to have a house for me and my family

and I lose everything for what? I did nothing, absolutely nothing. But through it all, man, you know. The Word of God says, in Romans 12 and 17, we pay no evil for evil. By doing so, God say, vengeance is mine. I'll repeat, said the Lord. He said, if your enemy is hungry, feed him.

If he thirst and give him a drink. By doing so, God says it's like taking hot colds and placing it on the top of their head. So to be honest with you, It's my relationship. My relationship with God, you know? And this is not tears of, this is tears of joy.

Because it's the same, man. It's the same. I went wishing all my worst enemy, man. And, you know, I mean, they go from making almost $90-some thousand a year to zero overnight. And my wife and kids, they had to stand in the line. The weather sometimes was unpleasant, you know. Every Saturday, my wife and kids stand in this line. Whether it's raining, whether it's cold, you know, she kept the kids doing cheerleading.

They were cheering and they had pears, little ponytails. You know, when they walk through the scanner, the scanner goes off, they embarrass my kids, making them take out the ponytail and everything else, patting them down and all of this other nonsense. But this is system, and I'm saying to myself, but, you know, but I understand. You know, they have a job to do. And my wife come in and she says, Raymond, there was time that she didn't even have a couple dollars for me to get something out of the vending machine. I said, don't worry about it, you know.

But my question to you, man, how does it, how... How... How... How do you help your family, man? You know? Your kids, I ask you, Daddy, when you're coming home, I sell them soon. Months going by, six months going by, a year going by, going in two years, you know, I keep telling them soon. I mean, I hear you, but, and this is not what you want to hear, but it could have been so much worse.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Can I ask you a question during the trial? did any of the other stuff did you ever testify that hey this is what I believe this whole thing stems from absolutely okay I took the stand

in federal court and my attorney Mr. Bloom said Ray he says listen I want you to take the stand and I took the stand you're super credible I took the stand

and I looked at every last one of those jurors and I said ladies and gentlemen of the jury But if I back up for a second, they had me walk down this long carter with the shackles cutting into my ankle. It felt like somebody had razor blades round my ankle just cutting, you know. And when I walked in the courtroom, they chose 11 whites, one black, and one black alternate, all business people. There was a chill that came over my body that I can't even describe to you. And it wasn't until I began to recite the 23rd song.

Lord is my shepherd I shall not want. He prepared the table in the presence of my enemies. And when I got on that stand, I said, ladies in the gentleman of the jury, you all are the same people that read the paper each and every day. I said, I was a highly decorated officer. I've never been in trouble my entire life. This is my department coming at me because I spoke out against corruption within the agency. They're the ones planting drugs and taking money and being innocent, black innocent offenders

to the ground. It's not me. I haven't done anything wrong. I was a Gold Cross recipient, Civil Cross recipient, a two-time deputy of the month. I said, but you all are the ones that read the paper. And you fabricate, and the case is fabricated. So therefore, you guys based on information on what you've read in the paper. And the person could be innocent.

I said, I'm innocent. When they said I was going to these various states, I'm at work. And I'm going to tell you right now, every jury. in that place was in literally in tears, man, you know? And the fact of the matter is that they said they come back within 30, they came back within 30 minutes, but they could have come back within 10 minutes. All of us was found not guilty. Even the ones that took a plea, Matt, the judge say, no, I'm going to get them time served.

I was going to say, but prior to go, prior to going to, prior to being incarcerated, like the types of things and the corruption that I saw going through, just going through the system on the other side, going through the system on the other side, even though I know the bulk of these guys are guilty, you know, the bulk of them are guilty. But even the twisting of the truth and the corruption and the hiding evidence and all the slimy thing that, things that happen. And I'm not saying all prosecutors are bad or all cops are bad.

obviously but you know just but it don't take it don't take many to make it the whole system look horrible and just seeing that like prior to going through that system and seeing it like I wouldn't have believed it like if I you're sitting on a jury like to me it's like well if the prosecutor says it like he wouldn't lie you know what I mean like you believe that so to me a jury trial is is um is terrifying but luckily and this is what I what's so funny is that the majority of the time they can tend to see through the bullshit right if you're lucky right you know and luckily most of the time it's pretty clear cut most of time there's evidence it's clear cut the person's involved the person's guilty you know but the the fear is of course like in your in your case like

you know um you've still got government officials saying this is what happened and and luckily they didn't fabricate any really fabricate any evidence that they sound like they only had like this one guy and some law enforcement officers, I'm sure. So it just... Exactly. And you know, what's amazing to me, all in was promoted.

The guy who patted me on my shoulder, Ricky Clark, he was promoted to a lieutenant colonel. The guy who arrested me, he was promoted to a detective, the one I let you listen to on the audio tape. I was going to say, you know, in the BOP,

the off because they have such a strong union. Right. It's so hard to, and I don't know how it is in the police force, but it's typically so hard to fire an officer that a lot of times if they're a problem to get rid of them, they advance them or send them to another department. So what happens is you're a problem. You don't get fired.

You get shifted around, but you keep getting advanced. Right. So you end up with a whole group of guys at the top that are just crap, but they just can't seem to get rid of them. And see, that's the problem, man. You know, to this day, I still love law enforcement. I will always love law enforcement because it did a lot for me as a young kid that I remember.

And there's a lot of men and women that put the uniform on each and every day to make a difference. Right. And I was one of them. I've inspired so many different people. The same guy I was telling you about they had to shoot out with Scott Israel and depart.

Right. Well, he owned his own construction company. How about he gave me a job when he was a foreman. I talked about it in the book. It was a start of construction. He gave me a job making $9 an hour as a labor. I'm out there digging up sewer ladders and water services.

The same guy who I used to tell when to go to bed and wake up, he became my boss. He's over me. So you got to be careful how you treat people's on your way up because you're definitely going to meet him on your way back down. He stopped my wife and told my wife, listen, she didn't even know who he was. And he says, my name is Gassonakins.

They call me G. Fresh. He gave a $40 and said, send this to my man Hicks and tell him to put it in his commissary account. See, this is the thing. He's now on his own construction company. There's another young man named Antonio Smith. Antonio should be on the street corner selling drugs. I'm like, Antonio, what's up, man?

What are you going to do with your life, man? Dude, you need to get off these streets, man. But guess what? Antonio drive 18 wheel of trucks now. He got a family now. He's making $150,000 a year. I could just go on with the list of the people that I've inspired along the way. And that's what I'm saying.

It's wrong. It's a disgrace that they took something from me that I love. But one thing is for sure, my sergeant now, James Booker, has come forth. After 35 years of service, Mr. Tom Devine and Mr. Robert Ward, who was actually trying to get me and my family in front of Congress. and I'm hoping and praying that one day I get a chance to go there, he's come forth now. He'd say, Ray was one of the best.

You don't have to take my word. Go to the law enforcement blog, and you're going to type in Raymond Hicks, and they're going to tell you that I was one of the best. Someone asked the question, who was the best deputy ever worked for the Barrow Sheriff's Office? Hands down, Raymond Hicks. Everything that asked me to do, I did it.

Did you ever, when this whole thing, after you walk out of court, did you ever think about trying to reapply to another county? Yes, I did. As a matter of fact, they promised to give me my job back. They were supposed to give me my job back. Even the union that I was actually affiliated with, right, F-O-P-E, they wouldn't even represent me, but they were taking my money every two weeks. And I said, well, how come you got you're taking my money, but how come you won't represent me? oh well because of the complexity of the case what do you mean it's one guy it's one guy the complexity of the case is one guy yeah and that's what you know it's just go to show you man in life you know you live and learn each and every day Matt and I've learned a lot of things man

you know um this whole thing have motivated me it inspired me to be even more of a better person that I've ever been before you know so now I have a foundation called Raymond L. Hicks LLC Foundation, where we get back to underprivileged kids. You know, I have a cookout. It's a multi-culture. It's black, whites, and Hispanics. And we come together. We get them school material, book bags.

It's a big cookout. We have clothes, shoes. And now that I've actually joined five beta sigma of gamma gamma-sigma, within one year, I won the highest award. It has never been done in the history of five-beta-sigma since 1948. I won two awards within one year since I've been a Sigma. And it's just going to show you, man, that I went back to college and I graduated college with a 3.97 GPA.

But I'm that same kid that couldn't even read and write when I was eight or nine years of age. My dad dropped out in third grade. My mom dropped out in seventh grade. See, a lot of time, people don't even know what goes on in the hood, man. But I thank God for Ms. Kirby. She was Caucasian. She was about four foot 11, 100 pounds.

soaking wet. And she said, every time I ask you to read a sentence, you get into a fight because my dad had me fighting ever since I was six, punching the sock and bacham, you know? And she said, you come here. She said, you're very respectful, but you're always getting into a fight every time I ask you to read

a sentence. Well, Matt, I couldn't read. Right. I had nobody help me. There are so many kids that's coming up in the hood, man, that don't have the help. And they're forced to go out there and they do things that they know it they shouldn't do in order for them to survive. But I thank God for Ms. Kirby. And I said, you know what?

To this day, I wish she can see me now. Because I graduated with a 3.97 with my bachelor's degree and criminal justice and forensic science from American Intercontinental University in Western. I went back and got my doctorate degree and theology. So there's all these things that I'm saying to you, I'm grateful. I'm thankful to the Lord, Matt,

because God has done some marvelous and magnificent things in my life. And even though I sit here and I share tears because it hurt. But one thing, back in the days, I cried for nothing. My dad used to tell me, grown men, don't cry. You suck it up.

Don't ever let me catch you crying. My wife would tell you, my cousin would have come over to the house. Oh, I ain't going over Uncle Raymond house because my dad, he was that kind of dude, man. He'll punch you in your chest like it ain't no tomorrow as a young kid and make you stand up. You know what I mean?

You know, you couldn't be no punk around him. It's just not going to happen. And that's why I look back over my life and I'm saying, this is crazy. But, man, it's been 21 years, man. 21 years. And I tell you, as a brother that love you and respect you and Kobe, and I appreciate the fact that you've given me an opportunity to come here and drive to Tampa to sit down and have an interview with you

based on our story in reference to the fact that what has happened to me and my family. Am I bitter? No, I'm not bitter. Am I angry? No, I'm not angry. Because one thing is for sure. Some of the things that they took, God has given it back to me. The home that they took from, they gave me 24 hours to get out the door.

They evicted me and my family. You got 24 hours to get out. December 21st, 2011. Lord, where am I going to go? I had to give away all my furniture to family members and friends I had to put stuff in storage and I said

this is the time that I'm literally about to lose it you know they sent me death threats bro the Brow Sheriff Office left it on my answer machine I call 911 they sent the gentleman out by the name of Rick Watson

I say Rick listen to this audio tape I'll be lying in my room in a pile of blood So I went and bought an AK with 180 rounds I told my mom you might was go get your black dress man She said son don't do this man I said mom these people want to take me in my family life But through it all you know My mom say listen I didn't raise you like that

And I took it back and I sold it To the same place where I got it from You know why? Because vengeance is the Lord It's not mine, Matt. And I've learned through all of this here, because I'm telling you as a brother that love you, respect you, God has allowed me an opportunity. My credit went from almost an 800 beacon score to a 400. But BSO had to give me my back pay. They had to give me my retirement, which they were supposed to give me my full retirement.

They were supposed to give me my job back when I was exonerated out of federal court. They told me I have my job in two weeks. They didn't give it back to me. but guess what matt they continued with the harassment they stormed my home a second time after you were found not guilty after i was found not guilty okay they said i was shooting at someone in my backyard my wife and i we was in court my neighbor who lived down the street he was a sergeant he saw my wife and i in court so you're in court and they're saying that they're i'm assuming that someone in my backyard so of course 60-something something

70-some cops throwing my home, had my house roped off and everything. They go in my house without a search warrant. Just violating all my constitutional civil rights. And I'm saying to myself, how, and so there I am, this black guy, he comes up

and tells me, put your effing hands behind your back. I say, dude, if you put your freaking hands on me, one of us going to leave here today. So my neighbor, who happened to be a deputy, Lisa, she come across the street, Raymond, come on, man, don't do this, man.

I say, do what? I say, this is, I haven't done nothing wrong. And he's going to tell me, I make sure. I said, I eat mace. They trained me to do all kinds of stuff, Matt. I was on the emergency response team. I was on field force. You know, you name it, I did it.

Trust me. I went in a situation that most people were cringe. When you talk about buying and all this other crazy stuff that they had me doing, man, I never wore a wire anything. This is the kind of stuff they had me do. It's a shame. It's a disgrace. So I take that case to trial, right?

And the judge, the judge say... The shooting one? The shooting, yes. God. And what happened? I taken the trial in front of Honorable Stephen DeLuke and Deerfield. And the judge say, what a victim? We don't have a victim.

Did you do a ballistic test? No, where the bullet casing? We don't have it. He said, so where's the officer that generated this probable cause affidavit? Oh, he no longer worked for the department. So this was just harassment. I mean, that's just obvious. Why are you been talking,

why are you been talking in front of the judge at that point? Exactly. So, so, so in a way, while I'm there handcuffed, before I get the trial, I tell my wife to go show the guy the documents. She puts it in the documents to a lieutenant or captain within second, they dissipated. They were all gone.

They tried to charge me through the mail, and that's when I took the case in front of Judge Honorable Stephen DeLuke in Deerfield. And the state asks for a continuance. He says continuous is denied. Everything I'm telling you is in this book right here. And all of a sudden, the judge said, you mean to tell me, he said, where the officer that generated this probable cause affidavit?

He no longer worked for the department. He said, but you're the state. You couldn't find him? He said, well, I tell you what, we go into trial in the next 10 minutes. Within 10 minutes, I was tried by the courts and I was acquitted by the judge. This is a good judge. I mean, you know, the judge could see through all of it and said, hey, let's I'll wrap this up real quick, you know?

Because let's face it, he could have given him time. He could have let him build some bullshit. Well, he just asked for continuance. He says continuance is deny. No, I'm saying. That's what I'm saying is that he obviously said, okay, I'm going to deny the continuance, make you try it. I already know you have no case.

And then I'll just, I'll just acquit him. Like, because he could see it was bullshit. You know what I'm saying? Otherwise, he would have said, you get the continuance. And he would have given them time to try and put something. together so he quashed it right there so yeah you you're you're that's a that's a good judge um well then guess what when you ain't ready for this one because all of a sudden i go and win the highest award in the community i win the african-american chiefs award i help 25 kids accomplish the high

school diploma gd i help my mother with the help of my wife and my oldest daughter help my mom get her high school diploma at 55 years of age who had to drop out the school diploma who had to drop out the in the fields of Georgia when she was seven. I helped my brother at the age of 32. He worked for the county right now with the help of my wife and my oldest daughter. And all of a sudden, I win this prestigious award. Don't take my word.

Go to African American Achievers.com and type in in 2004, you're going to see Raymond Hicks there. A philanthropist, Mr. Jim Moran, who was a South East Toyota distributor, was the one that actually give this ward to blacks who goes out within the community to make a difference. And I was one of them. And I won this award.

Well, guess what? The Breyer's Sheriff off the store in my home a third time. This time, they were looking to kill me. But they had to kill my daughter and my son. My daughter was 18 years of age and my son was four years of age. And they come there and they tell me they have a want for my arrest again. I say, one for my arrest for what? Oh, we can.

I say, here are you guys go again with the same. B.S. telling me about you can't tell me what you got to want for, but you're at my house? So, all of a sudden, I said, but you got a job to do. So I'm trying to get my arms in back of me, and I was

bigger than what I am now, so I couldn't get my arms in back of me. So this dude named Robert Crum, who worked drug task force, he told the sergeant, he said, we're going to need a double set of cuffs. So the Caucasian saw, you say, man, F that, put the effing cuffs on them like I told you to. So the two of them got into a

verbal confrontation that literally almost led to a physical altercation there in my yard. He said, man, the man can't get his arm behind him. And he's, and then I would say, he said, go get the Shikos. I said, what's the purpose of the Shikos, Saj. Oh, Ray, you're a big guy. We don't want any problem. I said, Sergeant, if it was going to be a problem, it had been a problem a long time ago. But you got a job to do.

So, of course, they handcuffed me. They put a double set of cups on, you know, and that put me in Shikers. put me in the cruiser, take me down to the district. And when I arrived there, they got 25 deputies waiting on me in the Sally Port with black gloves on. So one of the guys who I helped get the job, his name is Richard Lee, Deputy Richard Lee, he was working booking, and he heard the call come over.

So he said, man, I stay here, because I had a temp out of this world, Matt. I had a fight where I tore up all this. I won a Civil Cross Award. I lost my knuckle there, and I tore up all this here fight with this huge black dude by 6-4-2-70 or 6-2-7, whatever it was. You know, he tried to throw the sergeant over the rail and literally hit the sergeant, knocked him out, and he punched me and literally knocked me out. But when I got my equilibrium, I put a weapon on him, you know?

And we both went to the hospital that day. I had two cats on my hand, and I'm saying to myself, this is crazy, man. you know and um so in a way i asked lee i said lee i said what did they charge me with he said child abuse child abuse my wife will tell you i ain't never put my hands of my own kids i ain't never touched nobody child so he said you know what strange about this is on the pc there is no there's no victim so he said he went and told the sergeant right and booking and the sergeant said well um well this was done administratively what does that mean I heard that Ricky Clark, the same black guy when I was first arrested,

who came in my house and patted me on my shoulder. Right. Well, he was working for the child protective services, right? And they said that I patted a Caucasian female cadet and boot camp. Well, they found out that I never touched no female cadet in boot camp. It was a female named Illinois Smith. She was the one who patted the female, and it was spoken, but they tried to say it was mean.

But the young lady said, no, that drill and struck the Hitz never pouted me. And they found out that it was Illinois Smith. But it was the Browler Sheriff Office trying to get some type of charge on me because the reason why they were doing that, Matt, is because they're trying to justify all these different things that they've done to me, man, and my family. So, all right, so what happened with that case? The prosecutor did a thorough investigation. She threw the case out, no process.

Bro, you can tell me you don't live in Broward. count anymore. I do live in Brow, where I'm going. I mean, they got it out for you. Well, well, I mean, that's their prerogative, but I'm not going nowhere. How long ago was this last one? It was 2005, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. And then they came back again. They sent the SWAT team to my house. In 2013, it had me baker acted. Because, I campaigned for one of the chef and he promised to give me a job. They didn't give me a job.

We got it to an argument. Next thing, you know, I got red dots everywhere, man. So you were arrested that time, too? No, they had me baker acted. But then the judge, when I begin to tell the judge everything I'm conveying to you and Mr. Colby, listen, they would, I mean, the doctor, the doctor said, oh, my God.

He said, man, listen, the three of us standing here, we couldn't even go through a fraction of what you're describing to us. And they ruled in my case. They said they have never seen the SWAT team bring anybody in, bake rack, anybody ever before. And furthermore, I shouldn't even be here. And they ruled, and they had to give me all my gun license and everything. But again, I thank God for going through there because there was a young Caucasian female, Her name was Kea, um, um, um, she was anti, so she wouldn't talk to her mother, her father, her grandmother, nobody, but I began to embrace her like she was my own daughter.

I said, you shouldn't do that, young lady, you know, you should, you should at least open up to them. And we talk. And of course, she started talking to her father, her grandmother, her mom. There was a young Haitian girl who was eating her own feces. And I say, you can't do that. And I begin to show her how to, you know, how to. to eat the cereals and everything else that they was given.

And the medical staff says, where do you come from? Here you are a patient. I said, I'm not a patient. I'm just passing through. So, man, listen, I just want to thank you and Kobe, you know, for allowing me an opportunity to travel up here to Tampa Man, to be in your home and be on this podcast to speak about everything, all the things that happened to me. And I'm not even telling you guys everything, but I thank God.

man just for you are giving me the platform even though I know it's my story and that's okay but at the end of the day it gives me an opportunity to hopefully show other people that's out there who may be struggling or going through trials and tribulation which is adversity but adversity build character it makes you stronger it bring you closer to God and and I hope and pray that my story can be an inspiration to others to let them know that no matter what you go through trust God In the midst of the storm, trust God. See, because when I was a young kid, when we didn't have food on the table, Matt,

I watched my mom get down on her knees and stretch our arms out towards heaven. And as she began to pray, Ms. Magget Wallace came down the street with three bags of groceries. The father of the son in the Holy Spirit. And I would never forget it the longest day I live. My mother cooked pork chops, rice, and gravy that day.

So I know there is a God. My wife would tell you there is a God. You know, and that's why I say, I look up and thank the Lord. And even though we live paycheck to paycheck, but one thing is for sure, I don't worry about nothing, man, because I know that God going to always provide for me and my family. He has done it before and he will continue to do it. Because one day, you mark my words, Matt. One day, God is going to allow me an opportunity, man, to speak publicly like I'm speaking

right now, and it's going to captivate the people's attention. But I also want to let them know that, listen, no matter what you go through in life, see, sometimes God has to bring you to the lowest point of your life to show you who everybody is. Here you show you what your wife is about. Here's show you what your mother is about. Here's show you what your kids about. Your brother, your sister, your cousin, your uncles, your aunt, your friends, your acquaintance, your socius. Here's show you who everybody is.

Because a lot of times when you appear and they appear with you, then guess what? You don't know who these people's are. It's when you're at the lowest point of your life. So that's why when I talk about this guy, Booker, my sergeant have always been there for me and my family, man, him in his family. You know, they came to my house. before we was evicted and he said ray how can i help man they gave me 2,286 and 22 cents

they helped pay my rent my rent because it wasn't a mortgage anytime i needed something he was always there always giving me encouraging words he said ray you was chosen man See, it's just like you, Matt, you went through what you went through, and yeah, you may have been wrong for whatever you did, but guess what? God took you through that in order for you to have this platform right here that you and Kobe got. You know why? Because you're reaching so many people far greater than you ever thought that you can meet. You and I would have never met if it had not been for you going through what you went through. You wouldn't be sitting over there right now. He wouldn't be sitting there recording right now. So God worked a mistake. serious ways, my brother. That's what I'm trying to tell you. See, and one thing is for sure, I just hope and pray that I can just inspire other people. I don't reach out to everybody, man. I don't reach out to the big mega churches, the pastors, some everybody, the media, and

everybody else. And guess what? But my sergeant said to me, he says, Ray, if you had never gone through what you went through, his name is James Booker. And Yelanta and the daughter, Alia, that I've been knowing ever since she was born. He said, Ray, if you had never gone through what you went through, how could you be author of a book? They're talking about doing a movie. As a matter of fact, we're raising funds right now for them to get ready to do a trailer. There was a movie that was going to come out titled Behind the Badge by Raymond Hicks. Don't take my word, go to Google and look it up.

A brother out of New York, Mr. Joel Wine. who actually produced invasion of the USA we're going to produce the movie but because of the pandemic and everything else has been placed at a standstill but it's okay

because one thing is for sure my timing is not God timing so I'm just telling you he says Ray if you had never gone through what you went through you wouldn't have went back to college you wouldn't have went back and got your doctorate degree How about this?

My kids, my wife, hard-working women, man. She worked six, seven days a week, 10 hours, 12-hour shifts to take care of the family. She had the forked down while I was there. Gone. Keeping the kids busy. I would never forget that the long as they I live. I've had other people, man,

that actually helped me in my family. And I'm saying to myself, Lord, I thank you. So it's a reason why you had to go through what you went through, Matt. And that's what I want to share with you, my brother. You may not see it now, but at some point, God will reveal it to you. And as a matter of fact, he is revealing it to you. You know why? Because you didn't know me and I never knew you.

But I'm sitting here in your home. So it was predestined before you and I came into an existence that God will have you and I, send across from each other talking about what you went through what I've experienced and how we hear today talking about it here so the world can see

this is the second time I'm going to cry today the second time I had a podcast earlier that I started tearing up at but was in tears I mean I know I know all that like everything you're saying

I know So I just try not to think about it Yeah but you know what But it's a good thing though It's a good thing bro It's just like when I called you I said listen I said Matt I'm gonna be there

Some people tell you Oh man I'll be there and you don't see them They come up with excuses That's not me Soon as I got off from work I told my wife listen Let's go get this car This car and we're on the road man

I'm here And I appreciate you, man. I thank you. I just thank Bobby Ladigar. Man, I love that, brother, man. You understand me? I tell them all the time. I said, Bobby, I don't care what you say, how you said.

Ms. Jane Turner, Mr. Tom Devine, Mr. Terry Watson, Mr. Robert Ward, Ms. Anna Popovich, Ms. Victoria. I can just go on with the list, man, because these are the people that God have brought in my country and put me a contact with who are trying to help me. because they've heard my story. Ms. Sarah,

Ms. Sarah told me, she said, listen, my son is a ranger. And she said, if I would want my son to be, to mimic anybody, would be just like you. To have a leader just like you. That's huge. She don't know me from a can of paint. But see, that's the thing. And that's why I say that

I love eagles, man. If you notice that my ringtone is an eagle. and people don't even know it. The eagle is such a strong bird, especially the bow, they go into the storm. But the storm takes the eagle higher. So I tell people all the time, I'm a lion, but I'm an eagle, but I'm a dove also. I'm just as humble as I can be. My wife will tell you, I give you the shirt off my back.

But when it come down to, you know, standing up, I stand for you. firm, man. I go into the storm. I don't run away from storms because the storm is taking me higher. So these trials and tribulation that we've gone through, Matt, is taking us higher. Higher. Well, listen, I'm glad you came. I'm glad you made the drive. Thank you. Yeah, definitely thank you for coming and talking with me and telling me this story. Is there anything else you want to say? You know, there's a lot of great people, man, that came and helped me and my family, another brother that I could supervise. So after all that stuff I mentioned to you, I got on with the United States Department of Homeland Security.

through a subcontractor I became a lieutenant I became a captain and a SWAT commander for ICE immigration customer enforcement through all of that Is that what you're doing now?

I'm actually working for Apple now I do special op for Apple so you have to be retired law enforcement in order to do what I do I've traveled all over the world protecting some of the biggest principles that exist like Princess Fahada she's the daughter of King Abdullah

from Saudi Arabia she has five sons all on Prince I was working with a company called Carlson Associate out of Virginia. Paul Carlis is the CEO. Tom Lohen is the vice president. So that's why I look up, man, and I just say, Lord. And even they said to me, Ray, where do you come from? Because they believe in loyalty.

They took me everywhere with them. And that's why I say, man, you know, this is a blessing right here, Matt. You know? And God, I just pray that God continue to bless your platform. man and I know he will you and my man Kobe you know and I just hope and pray that God just take you guys to love it that you have never seen before why because you're doing an awesome thing when you interviewing people like myself and others and even including you who have gone through some trials and tribulations but God is

showing you that know what you don't have to do this or do that in order for you to be here he have all the riches of the world man that you not know that that people just go play the lotto, they get a scratch off. Immediately, they're millionaires. See, that's how God worked. And that's the thing. That's why I look up and I thank the Lord every day, man.

I was 21 in like a week when I became a New City cop. When was the first time you actually did something that you knew you were crossing the line? You know, I always talk about this time when I took money, when I basically told like a kid that I didn't want to I didn't want to give him summonses because

I don't give up about summons right I don't I don't gain on a summons right right so and it's not that I mean I'm not supposed to gain it's a right it's a civil service position you're supposed to serve the public but there comes a point where you begin to get frustrated in any in any job you can get frustrated right but as a police over you're supposed to maintain your decorum and continue on like a true Blue Trooper.

Right. But I guess sometimes when the humanity comes in, you go, you know, I'm fucking, I could, I could use a good meal. Right. You know, I'm not that I'm starving. Yeah. I never starve. But you're living off a 600 bucks a week.

No, 600 every two weeks. Every two weeks? Yeah, but he's misled by that. I was claiming 300 a week. In fact, in the Academy, I was clearing $205 a week. And then, you know, you get a little bit of a raise, you get a little bit of raise. I was clearing 300 and, like, at one point, $303 a week in the 7. Right.

But this was. this was 83 804 yeah this is like 40 years ago but even then that's just that's no money it was poultry you're you're you're trying to it's like yeah I would have I would have at the end of at the end and I didn't have any bills by the way I live with my parents right so you're you couldn't you can't live by yourself you're a young rookie cop you're living with your parents I'm talking about that debt ever in the early part right and you know so maybe I'm banking I'm giving them 50 bucks a week and I'm banking 200, right? Because I want to save her from, get a house, so I can get married. That's why I took

this job, right? And you see that, it's really not going that well. The savings is not really mounting up pretty quickly for a guy who's living home and having reduced bills, which, you know, I was very financially very responsible throughout my whole life. Anyway, so accounting major in college, yeah, so very good. And they're pretty good at it. So, I realized that, the money was just not adding up and so when you pull somebody over and they're like let's say they're 17 right and first of all and they don't even have a license they don't even have a registration they only have license plates on the car right and yet when you pull them over they got a stack of hundreds in there back then it was fanny packs yeah you know those fanny

packs the leather pouches the pouches and shit the jab no I didn't that one I knew people You knew people. So, I mean, it's the staff with hundreds, you know. I'm like, what the, you know, I got six bucks, you know, and it's got to last me, it's Tuesday, it's got to last me to Thursday at 4 o'clock when the checks roll in, you know. So, I mean, you don't have to feel bad for a guy, but that's what, it is what it is.

So, Mike, where are you from? Puerto Rico. It's a guy's not even, like, of, of course, he's a citizen, but he's not, like, he just got him in Puerto Rico last week. He bought a car, you know, COVID. Yeah, he bought a car. himself a Corvette, and he's got a stack of hundreds in his wallet, in his pouch. So I could use a nice meal.

You know, I'm going to tell him, I want your money. I didn't know how to make that transition. So, you know, you got $1,800 worth of summons here, plus I've got to take your car. So who knows when you're going to get it back and whatever, you know, toll, pay for a toll, pay for storage. You know, if you got your good lunch, you know, and a good one, I mean, like a lobster lunch. you know then we can this will go away right so it so that's like the main that was the first time that I did it with intention right there are other moments where I let things go or saw

things I didn't I didn't care about you know like maybe it was some drugs somewhere you know never never to my benefit right right never to my benefit you know just like maybe it was laziness right I didn't give you know whatever I've witnessed things but in this case it was like I took an aggressive approach to try and get something. Yeah. And like we discussed previously, it felt like, like, a nerve. I thought it was being set up. Right.

You know? Because, like, it was just perfect. I think I had no papers, no license, the plates, no, they're nonexistent. And then after we got the money and we drove around, like, for a while, no one pulled us over or anything, like, boop, whoop, internal affairs, what are you doing? It was like, yeah, I can do this. Like, I can do that. Yeah.

And that was on the back And I always forget to tell the story That was on the back Of an incident With me and two other police officers So I'll just make the short of it I make a car stop Some guy blows a stop sign

I pull him over I'm up on Jamaica Avenue By Highland Park In the borderline between Brooklyn and Queens And I got this car stopped And all of a sudden I look behind me

This flashing blue red lights from a police the city police car and I'm going oh this must be so-and-so coming to join us like right checked on us

yeah back up for no reason but still back up yeah yeah I mean whatever that's cool what are you doing I'm like excuse me

my job McGregor whatever his name was I don't what Terry McGregor was a guy's name the other guy ended up was in his job

anyway he goes what are you doing? What do you mean what am I doing? Like, why do you ask me? What am I doing? He goes, I made a car stop. He goes, in my sector.

So I go, well, so I knew that was a little touchy thing. And I'm like, well, we pulled them over here, but we followed him from my sector. Right. You know, he followed him three blocks and pulled them over. This is the best place we can pull the guy over. Yeah, well, don't be making any car stops in our sector. he goes and make sure you stay away from our bodegas and our spots right i mean obviously that's something's you know something's odd about that their territory when all of it falls

within the precinct yeah it's in the precinct i you know i can drive by here all day long but you know he don't want me doing any doing anything in his sector right so he's what charging he's charging uh protection money to people you're not positive but something's ain't right something's not right So, so, you know, later we talked about it. My partner and I at the time, Sal was a different partner than Kenny. And I said, like, I get that you don't want me eating at some of your spots because you get eat on the, if you're eating on the arm, you don't want to hurt. Right, right, right.

The other guy coming in and say, listen, I can't give 15 guys free meals in a day. Right. So that I'm aware of, you know. But to make a car stop, like, is there something, am I missing? something here. So, like, the next day or two, I see this car, I pull it over, and I said, you know, maybe this is what it's about. I gave it a shot. I got paid. And it was a different approach. From that day forward, it was all, like, I know, I wasn't, I was about two years. For that day forward, it was just a different approach. I'm going to get mine. Yeah. I'm going to get

whatever it is. If it's an extra sweater, you know, right. If it's a Nike hat, whatever it is, I'm going to get something for me out of this because it appears that there's more to this than just driving to work and keeping the peace and going home and getting the paycheck. But you're still conducting police business. It's just that if something comes across, you're not out at that point. I know later, but at that point, it seemed to me like you weren't seeking it out. Like if it's, you're an opportunity. If I come in on a bus and this and that, and there's a stack sitting here.

So that's the next thing that. ends up happening. Right. I ended up in the homicide scene with this guy, Sal, and we were still, and so I get, I go under this homicide, we first response, I can't even open the door because the body's, body's barking the door, you know, the guy was hitting the head and he was laying by the, they can't even open the door. Finally, I opened the door.

I get inside and, and I see, it's a marijuana. Back then, they had tray bag stores. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Brooklyn's setup, but, like, it was a bunch of dummy candy stores, and they were all selling nickel bags. Like today, they're starting to sell pot everywhere, whatever. They've already got the setup, you know, 40 years ago in Brooklyn. Right. They had these paper plates in the window with, you know, candy signs.

Candy, you know, whatever. It was a dope spot for marijuana. Pushed the door open. We had to move the body. The guy was basically dead on the floor and the block of the door. The guy got shot in his spot. So the door was held closed by the body. We couldn't even get inside.

So eventually we push our way in. And so it's a funny scene of where inside there's a, Well, funny. Yeah, it was funny. See, what's so funny is I have a sick sense of humor. Like, to me, that is funny. Like, but people are like... Get in because the guy's blonde is born.

Oh, yeah, I hate that. Yeah, he's blocking the door. Can you get up? So anyway, in there's bags of marijuana. Like, like, clearly a huge amount of marijuana, like pounds. And come to find it later on, there was over four or five pounds, which is quite, you know, it's a substantial amount. Yeah. And it looks large.

You know, pound of marijuana is a lot, you know. And so, anyway, so he has this, and he's got his nickel trade bags set up, and he's got cash, and lots of cash. So I'm like, this is, you know, a little, I'm excited. And then out comes this guy from nowhere. And he's, oh, my God, he starts bawling on his friends, giving him CPR, mouth to mouth, the guy's dead. And, you know, and then, so the odd thing is I'm trying to put this together, like, what's going on here? Because you don't want to stop someone from giving someone CPR.

what to let him do it. Right. And then he takes, looks at his hands, and he starts wiping the blood off his hands, right? I mean, to me, that disturbed me. Like, this is your friend who's dead. It's your best friend in the world, and you're worried about the blood on your hands.

Whatever. So, then I see the money and the marijuana, and so long story short, I see a sliver of a stack of hundreds. Not a lot. I think the number was 600. So I put a little 600 in my pocket. And now we have to call for the emergency service,

the search teams, all the sergeants, the EMS, everybody to show up. We got a real shooting. We got a possible DOA on the scene, send an ambulance, send the sergeant, send the morgue, you know? Anyway, so we set it all up, and in comes to sergeant about five, ten minutes into it. And he says, so we got this bags of marijuana, we got a stack of cash. I don't know how much cash is there at the time. And he turns around, he looks at me, he says, so is that it? Right.

So I look at him and I go, well, I take the $600 out of my pocket. And I go, like, well, if you can't see it, I go, here, this is, this, he goes, is that it? And I go, that's it. I go, he goes, I didn't want to, I said, I didn't want to get all lost. I don't know what to say. Like, I gave you a stack of 20s, but I got a sliver of hundreds in my pocket. They didn't want it to get lost. Anyway, so someone else takes the, takes the perp.

Oh, I think the squad showed up. I don't remember who showed up, but I didn't process the arrest. Right. I was, because it was a homicide. Usually the homicide detectives didn't go over right away. And they were there quick enough, so they took over the case. So the homicide detective says to me, what do you think? I said, he did it.

The guy with the hands. Yeah. And he says, he asks me why you say that. I said, because just the way he acted. I said, plus, he wasn't there. He came running out of somewhere. We did a little quick search. We saw handprints all up the upstairs and back.

There's an imprint going upstairs. I didn't see him go upstairs. And with the handprints of blood. Yeah. And he made, he made it. I'm CSI now. Yeah. And he made such a scene about wiping off the blood.

and making sure he touches the guy to get blood out. That's my blood on my hands because I touch down. Exactly. He made a big scene. Right. So from that, I says he did. And one of the statements the kid made was funny story. He says, I told him to start with those women.

All right. What he meant was stopped with my woman. Oh, okay. As it turned out. So the squad has this two, two, three pieces of information with them. They turn the guy in five minutes against themselves. He said, ah, man, because they told me he was alive. He's alive and he's talking.

They're like, he said, oh, shit. They had luck. The guy's obviously dead. He's got his brains all over the place. Right. Anyway, so, so, yeah, so at that scene, when I put the 100 to 500 and I gave it back. So that night, we went out for choir practice, you know, drinking with the boys. And the sergeant happened to come with us.

We're out in Huntington on Route 110. I think the place was, I can't remember that. It's like Farrell's. It wasn't Farrells, but something like that. It was a common name, one of those Irish. bars, a Fulton Street, Fulton Street pub. If anyone knows Huntington Hill, Long Island, is Fulton Street Pub. And I like to throw that,

because people love that, you know. And so I was at Fulton Street pub, it was 1.30 to the morning and I say, I go over to Sardin, and I said, Saj, which is honest, is Sarners usually don't go out with the fellas, you know, because they're, they're bosses, you know, let the boys do their thing. I said, listen, you know, I gave

you, he says, I said, what do you think? I gave you a couple hundreds, he goes, if you get there before me it's all yours he says if i show up i can't condone you taking it right he says because i don't want the problem i'm a boss he says but you show up at a murder scene and there's cash fly like the myp doesn't does not murder people right to set you up yeah they're just not going to go that far they'll do a lot of things but they're not going to kill people to set you up so he says if you get there you see body and you see stacks of cash or whatever

It's yours, but make sure I get mine. And he says to me, because if I find out later on that, that you clip $25, $30,000, and I got nothing. He says, I'm going to be pissed. I said, so, so like, so for effect, you know, later on I thought about it. I'm like, he just gave me a license to do whatever the I want. And now I'm like, at 23 years old or something like that, and I'm saying, I can fucking do anything I want out here, you know, especially since.

the witnesses are mostly dead or running from the scene. It's their word against yours anyway. And I'm a cop. And honestly, like when we talk about the drug dealer stuff, like the other guy's like, what are they going to say? They're going to say. I lost 10 keys and 50,000 in cash. Right.

You're going to knock on the policing. You're going to walk to the precinct. Excuse me, the detective or investigator. Yeah. One of your police officers robbed me for 35 kilos. Add a million dollars in cash. Okay, good. Sit down.

Have a seat. Just not what happens. But more and more it happens today. Believe you not. It wasn't back then, though. Your sergeant, you said, it's funny because, like, I actually had a owner of a bank tell me, basically, it was almost the same, a similar site, well, I mean, he had caught us. Right.

And then sold the loan, caught us, said, hey, we caught you. I said, I don't know nothing about it. And he said, and then he sold the loans, knowing they were all fraudulent loans, bad loans, selling them. Knew it. Because he thought they might perform. Right. And then later he came down and we were talking. He was just, he had a couple drinks in him.

We were talking about fraud. And he said, listen, man, I don't care about fraud. He was nobody in the industry cares about fraud. He said, if it goes through us and we can get rid of it, he said, I could care less. Right. He has, I just don't want to get stuck with it. Right. And to me, that was just like, so he was basically saying nobody's going to own in the FBI.

Like, the worst that happens is we blacklist you and you can't do any loans with us. And it was just like, to me, I was like, oh my God. And then, I mean, listen, after that. Let's go. Yeah. turned their, I punched it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

So, yeah, so that moment is a defining moment for me because I became less cautious about scenes. I didn't, so I actively looked for scenes, but I didn't, I wouldn't roused up a scene to make it happen. Right. So then, like, I'd rush to a homicide. Right. I mean, no one really wants to be on a homicide because then you got to stay with it and do all the dirty work, right? but if you rush to a homicide scene see people die for a couple

reasons usually because of a bad relationship issue money or drugs and the ghetto it's usually money and drugs because everybody's got a bad relationship you know babies daddy's mom is in a time you know Thanksgiving is a tough day because you know they all get you know six babies daddy show up nine babies momas

you know it's just it gets confusing it really does you know but I'll tell you one's funny story I had a park footpost one day because I was on punishment post. I used to get punishment posts because they didn't want to have to keep an eye on me. So it was easy to put me on a footpost because you only have like a block square area. But in the car you can go 40 miles from one direction to the other.

And when I was under an line of investigation, they'd put me on a footpost. And so one of the young girls comes up to me, young kid, like eight and nine years, cute kid, beautiful little child, says to me, uh, something about Thanksgiving or Christmas. And she says, well, I have, I have five. stepdaddies and I said oh I felt I felt bad for the child you know right stepdaddy she got I got seven brothers and sisters and five stepdaddies I said oh that's you know she goes it's great because Christmas each one of the stepdaddies buys us a gift right so that's guaranteed five or six gifts there and then your own daddy he really gives you lots of gifts

so I mean like there was a there was a silver lining there was a silver lining to everything you They do stab each other every once or wrong. That's you, yeah, because mom is not, you know, putting, she's not holding up around to the bargain, I guess. I don't know, whatever. But, yeah, so, I mean, what an education for a guy who grew up. His dad was a fireman and he came home, you know, once every three days, would smell like smoke, you know, and hockey player, baseball.

Athletic, you know. Long Island kids going to play sports and you're out in the ghetto now, like putting out fires every day and like, what the fuck? I don't, not fires, but, you know, putting fires, personal fires out every day, putting your finger in the, in the dike of the dam. And the crack arrow was just insane. It was insane. Well, and there wasn't a big budget for police, for law enforcement at the time.

It was, I mean, it was just a... So you hit a point there, the budget. So part of the reason why things get the way to do, you could actually hawking back to today, what's going on in today's environment. Like, it's dangerous today in a lot of these major cities because of the, you say, budget whatever the defund the police story but back then we had uh budget crunches because the volume of arrests was insane like so like people don't get this like there's a million arrests in new york city every year just make sure you're called your yeah yeah there's a million arrests in new york

city every year that's insane that's what it was let's say and so 250 000 were arrested in Brooklyn. Maybe more. It's a lot of process, right? You talked about process before. There's always a process, right? So processing an arrest is guaranteed 17 hours overtime, maybe more. Right. So you're paying somebody to process an arrest for 17 hours overtime. Then you're having to pay for legal aid for the perpetrator, court costs, bailiff court. What? You can go down the list on what it costs just to process an arrest without the overtime. So the city began to sort of discourage arrests for drugs. Now, perfect storm, right?

Because if you're telling a police officer don't make an arrest for drugs because it's not going to go well for you. Why? We're going to put you on footposts. We're going to put you in less desirable assignments because you're killing us with the overtime costs. Some guys didn't give it, damn. They'd make an arrest in the station house. Like, and that happens, by the way, every day. You know, people walk in and ask a question.

Guy runs the name. Oh, you could. You're under arrest. And the guy, like, we took you off patrol so you wouldn't make overtime. He goes, too bad, I got an arrest right now. And you can't stop me. Right. See, they can't stop you from making a lawful arrest, right?

Right. What's the supervisor ever say? Unarrest that person? Yeah. Let him go. Yeah, you can't. You know, but today I think you can for pressure. because it seems that way, which is another story, right?

So think about that. 250,000 arrests. Everyone is 17 hours overtime, let's just, for argument's sake, and the numbers just are astronomical. Yeah, it's outrageous. So they discourage it. So now you're telling me, here's what you make me, you make me the armed security force for the drug dealers.

Right. You're just trying to get people to stop shooting each other at this point. So I'm not arresting. I'm just trying to get you guys to stop killing us, Stop killing each other. So it's the profile. So you have a higher visibility. Because if I make an arrest, I'm taking a patrol car and my partner pretty much off the street

and left to somebody else to jump in with him. Because we don't do solo patrols in Brooklyn. You're not allowed. It's dangerous. So I'm taking you off the street and me off the street and process an arrest. So that cars down for the day. So really the numbers-wise, it doesn't pay to make the arrest. So we become the armed security of force.

for the drug dealers. I mean, when it's January 17th, and it's 18 below zero with the windshield, and it's 2 o'clock in the morning, and there's four guys on the corner on Picking Avenue and Pine, what do you think they're doing? Right.

I mean, can anybody out here tell me what do you think they're doing? I mean, they're selling something. You know, they got the, they got the Eskimo. So they get to go about their business while you hang out and make sure nobody drives by

and shoots at them because they're on their corner. Or so. Yeah, so you can. fill in the dots from there. And that's what happened was the public began to be outraged that we were not making arrests. But they're not, they're not announcing to the public. We're discouraging arrests. And this is a fact. These are all facts as I lived it. You know, we're discouraging drug arrests because blah, blah, blah, blah, we're saving money. In the meantime, it's just, it's like the broken. It's making your neighborhood horrible to live in.

The broken window theory fixed the window in the house so it looks better and people won't try to break in steel and burn it down, right? So that was the Giuliani theory. Fixed a broken window, get the squeegee guy from off your windshield because once he's off your windshield, he has to be someplace else. You're not intimidated and you go forward and have a better day. So that's the approach they had back then. And we were the epicenter of, you know, the police are always the conflict no matter what.

No matter if you do, damned if you do, damned if you don't. you know so so there was a long line of what you're seeing today happened back then but in a different way because back then but you can still beat the fat of you right straight up back then you can still now there's too many cameras

back then you can still give a good beating and everybody went home it's funny and everybody went home then and us the Rodney King thing I remember all these guys were like I got arrested after the Rodney three days after the Rodney King riots everybody when that came out I remember guys were saying you know well

That's an isolated event. I was like, yeah, it was. The isolated event was that there was a guy where they were with a camera. It happens all the time. It was just isolated. There was a guy with a camera. And yes, and that's true. And to defend the police always, that's not what, that's not all they do.

No, no, no, no, I know. And it's usually, let's just say earned. It's usually earned. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's usually earned. And I'm not saying they deserve that, but it's usually earned. You know what's funny is like guys talk to me about prison. They're like, you know, well, is there a lot of stabbings and people, were you scared?

Were you scared? I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm like, you understand? If you get stabbed in prison or beaten up in prison, you've had it coming. It doesn't sound good, but you did something. Like, they're not randomly running up and smashing guns. You owed money. Right.

They told you to pay it. Then they, you said you. Then they told you check in. So you get yourself shipped. Right. You said, I'm not going to. They, you know, they brought, they went to your, they went to the shot collar, explained to the shot collar, finally the shot caller.

finally the shot collar talked to you. You then told him I'm not paying. Then the shot collar said, beat his ass. And you got your ass beat or you get stabbed. I mean, you had a chance. Yeah, yeah. You know, punks, money, drugs. Absolutely.

One of the worst beatings I saw was over a punk. Yeah, yeah. And it's so funny to say punk out of here. Like the first time I said it, like everybody like, I mean, a gay guy. Yeah. And it's like, oh, now you just, I just said I called a punk or a gay guy a punk. Yeah. And that's prison.

But, okay, so back to what I was going to say is, I mean, at some point, the guy cello came to you? Oh, yeah. I forgot his name. I forgot his name. I forgot the fucking guy's name. And the guy interviewed him, he forgot the name. Well, it was funny because, too, like, he was the low man that told him all his boss. Then his boss was actually a really good interview.

You know what I mean? Okay. So you got it confused. You got it confused. Chello was a boss. Oh, I thought Chello was the guy in the, in the, um, he was the, um, he was the, um, cello was the guy in the Porsche. Yeah.

Well, yeah. So. Oh, he was the boss? I thought he was under the other guy. No, cello wasn't. So Diaz says cello was a little nothing to him. Right. That's what he says. Because Diaz, you know, he started at two, three hundred

kilos a week. Right. Cello might do 50 kilos a week, but he was selling grams, half grams, dine bag, whatever he was selling, you know? So he was selling retail, and Diaz sold wholesale. Right. So to him, he was a nobody, but cello had his own organization, from top to bottom. He was

enjoying his own organization. La Campania. Yeah. La Campania. And you know, they had 28 murders, the front of La Campania. And cello was responsible in some way or another for the hits that they order. Right. So, yeah, so he, so they were two, let's say they're two equals this way, but Diaz, you know, sold a million dollars in tonnage. This guy sold a million dollars in half grams. Right. So, so that's the thing. But, but cello put a hit on me because I, he, he, I put pressure on his shop, put pressure on his store because he didn't pay me to $700. He's supposed to pay me $8,000. He shorted me $700.

Did he do that? Did you ever find out, like, what he's just trying you? right out of the gate he just tried me i wasn't sure so that's why i was pissed you know like why would you do that you know so i think what it is and i think that somebody but he came up with the exact amount that he was short yeah okay so i mean he knew it's not like somebody miscounted well i i i think that he didn't do it okay so there was an intermediary yeah i think that a guy see when they when they pay in drug money it comes in thousands right so a thousand bundles, right? And if it's 20s, it's 50, 20s is $1,000, right? So instead of, there's 45, 45, 45, 45, and it was like, we're counting out. It's like, are they doing it

on purpose? Right. So someone's taken, taking $100 out of each bundle. That's what I got from it. So by telling them that they were short 700, I thought he would go, be pissed at they're his people, not pissed at me. Why would I tell you you short $700? I mean, that's, that's penny, that's, that's picky own. I'm telling you you short $700 because, one, if it's your people that are robbing it, straighten them out, and two, make it right. So to clarify, you basically, you had gone to them and said,

look, it's $8,000, give me $8,000 a week, and I'm going to give you the heads up on any investigations, on anything that's coming down, any raids, anything into you. He then pays you the money, short somehow or another you get shorted. And then you don't say anything. It's not like you can complain. What you did was you went and you basically parked your police car in front of. No, so I went to Barron, the head of the Autosound City shop, the guy who was in black in the thing.

And who set this whole meeting up, I said, Baron, we're short 700. He goes, yeah, I know. I said, well, tell him we short 700 and make it right. Right. I didn't think much of it. And then after about a week, he comes back and tells him. Go for yourselves. We're not paying you. We're done and I'm not paying you. That's not the way this is going to go. Right. So I started putting pressure on the store. I had myself and my partner

would park in front of his store. Right. Sit there all fucking chase cars that pulled up and, you know, just made it clear that you're not going to go bad for you. You're not going to do this. Right. So and then I even went one step further and I paid another crew of cops $1,000 just to sit on the store when I wasn't working. So he had like 24 hours a day almost coverage on the store. I mean, up until midnight, you know. So all day up until midnight, he couldn't sell him a Coke because no one would go to the store because the cops were there. You know, no one would get caught moving out with the drugs on him.

Anyway, so he sends a message over to Barron. I put a hit on him. So I don't, and I get my 911 page, Barron doesn't page me, 911, 911 page goes off, and I end up going in to see Barron, he goes, they put a hit on you. I said, okay. And the funny thing is that I heard, which I think was accurate, that the precinct knew about it and told me nothing.

They knew about it, didn't say anything. At that point, they were already, they were like, they were like good killers. They didn't know what to do. But I heard that they knew. So they had informants in the La Campaneda. And if you remember them in that van, in the movie seat, in the van, you're running back to the precinct. Well, in that van was one of the company's informants, telling them who's.

Oh, that's when they ran from them. When they came out, I started shooting at them and they take off. Correct. So, to my point... They made it sound like there was only a couple guys there. They didn't mention that, yeah. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, to my point was that... So the precinct and the DEA, they worked together.

Yeah. Had informants in the company, and they knew that they put a hit on me. Because the informants told them. They put a hit on this cop. Yeah, so now when I get the word, I went... And it's funny because my recollection gets a little foggy here. And I was called to task on some common, I did, I did an Audi Lang podcast, but Kenny came on the, I did an Artie Lang podcast, then Kenny cried and begged, I want to do what I want to do. So Artie Lang said, I'll put you on. He says, Mike, can you join us in the middle of the podcast?

And I don't want to do it because I don't want to get Kenny any credibility. But for Artie Lang's sake, I said, let me, I'll jump on. and we argue back and forth about he says, and you didn't do I don't remember any of this $700 and you confronting them and this Mexican standoff in the street. I said, really? I said, that you weren't there because

it happened. I got the 700. He said, well, I didn't get my half. I said, well, if you didn't get your half, it's because you didn't do anything. What did you do for it? I ended chasing a guy down, getting the death threat put on me, pulling them over. I mean, I wouldn't short Kenny's 350, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know that I didn't give it to him, but I'll take his word for it that I didn't. But then he wasn't there because I think I was working with the internal affairs chick, Lisa Breland. She was like, they'd have set me up, but she didn't. She just couldn't do it. She wasn't trying really hard, you know? But so anyway, so after the threat was made, I found the guy that day. On the first day that he put a hit on me, I never met the guy in my life. I just know he paid us, but I knew the description of his car.

So I went up on Fulton Street by Norwood. under the L, and sure enough, there's a car. I pulled them over, and I licensed registration and insurance card. He turned as white as his shirt. No, that's not accurate. He's like, oh, okay, officer, I get your license registration insurance card, and he goes like this, and I take the license registration, I throw it right back on, bang, right, because it was down below me.

So I throw it right back at his lap, I go, put a hit on me. He's like, now he's like, now he doesn't know what to do. I just was, you know, it's funny because, like, you're in it, right? Yeah, yeah. So I go, I was praying he and a, no, no, no. Like, I was just, like, when he opened the glove box to get the, like, let the, look for an excuse. Let the gun fall out, you know?

I mean, because at this point, you put a hit on me. I mean, I got a win. I can't lose. Otherwise, it's over, right? Well, and these guys are killing people. Yeah. There's, there's what they do. And that's what they do.

So I'm just, I might as well just, you know, if you got a gun on you, I can kill you and then, you know, we just make a little 95 tag, put it on your toe and say goodbye. I mean, that's how I, right. That's what you have. have to that's what you become you know you become it now you know it's no longer like you're there you're there for you right to survive no i was the um when they did the what was it the commission and they're questioning you during the commission the one commissioner asks you know were you uh did you at that by this point so when you start protecting the actual that organization she says

do you feel like you were a police officer or were you a um you know uh uh you know uh uh uh a drug traffic. Right, right, right. And you were kind of like, I didn't know what to say. I don't know. I look at my lawyer, I go, what do I tell them?

Tell them the truth. I said, both. Yeah. Yeah, how does that work? I don't know, but it felt like both. And it was like, that's like, everyone like, oh, we can imagine you were that? Well, don't, you know, look,

they don't get the, they don't understand the mindset of continually getting away with committing crime, what it does to you. Like, mentally, you just, look, when you go to, to work and you drive a truck and you deliver Coca-Cola every day and you're going to the same routine and same routine and you're you're underneath the umbrella of the law right and you're

following all the rules you don't understand what it's like to work or to behave outside of that and get away with things consistent I mean most people they drive a little bit over the speed limit boom they get caught they're like I can't believe this you know um and you know but when you are existing outside of that and you continually get away with it forever. And then when you do get caught periodically, you get out of it over and over again. You get this, the rules just don't apply to it. That's what you start believing it. It was a silver, it was a gray line. You started out here, right? And the gray line just kept getting further and further away. So, like, I would start, like, most people start their day, tie theirs and shoes and go to work and drive down the highway,

you know, stop at the light. Right. I mean, I started my day over here. So, like, stopping at the red light was way over here. Like, that wasn't even an option. Like, you know, when you see normal people start here. And when you start here and this is normal, you can't, that's harder to do. It's harder to do normal than it's already over here. And we can rationalize and justify anything. But that's how it is.

Yeah. No, look, it's, it's, you know, and this is a horrible example is like, it's like when I'm driving on legitimate driver's licenses and other people's names, you know, some homeless guy I interviewed in Idaho, and I've got a driver's license, and I'm driving, the rules don't apply. Right. So I'm getting, am I, you know, are you scared of getting pulled over? No. No. The car's in his name, the registration, I mean, the, the, the insurance. And if I get it, I'll get three tickets in his name and run up all the points, go to traffic schools. Like, it doesn't apply. It doesn't matter to me. I have tons of money to pay for the extra insurance. I'm, I'm driving 95,

miles an hour in in a 50 because it just doesn't apply and if I get pulled over I'll pay the ticket like I'm not the cop would come to the window and be like you know do you know how fast I was going I was like depends on how far long you been behind yeah let did you and I started laughing and they just look at you and I go they'd go well why were you going so fast and I go stupidity yeah and he would look at it and he goes never heard that one before and they'd go well uh all right I'll be back like they don't know what to do that you know because like everything I have like you're not going to go check at the car and find a warrant. Right.

I got that covered. Right. Like I'm, you know, so it's just, it is, it's just insane. Right. Like, your thought, and you don't realize until you're sitting in that jail cell and I started looking at myself going, maniac, bro. Like, what am I thinking? Yeah.

Like, how did I, people start telling me things I did and said and behaved like, and I was like, I know you're right. Like, and I'm like, now I look at it and I think, how was I not terrified? Right. Yeah. I'm driving, I'm driving home from work. in my Corvette, going 140 miles an hour down to Robert Moses, Robert Moses, not the Causeway, Jones Beach Parkway.

And I got a half a kilo in the back of the vet. And I don't even have my badge anymore because now I'm on modified assignment. I've got myself to where I'm on modified assignment, which means that I've gone to the farm. You're almost not a cop anymore, but I'm still going 100, 40 down the Jones Beach Causeway because, no traffic, and the police vehicle that I've passed, it's plane closed, so he's got to be a detective, and detectives don't chase speeders. But turns out this guy's in the New York State escaped fugitives program, and he just happens

to be driving along Jones Beach State Park. the day I'm blowing by in my 140 mile an hour in my red corvette with a white convertible top. Not noticeable. No, you can't. You won't see this. Practically blends in. The one that I parked in the lieutenant spot,

you know, because he pissed me off because he thought he can bang my girlfriend, then that wasn't going to happen. You know, the biggest, you know, big a red bucket in the lieutenant spot. You know, so it's just, it never ends. Like, like, put a flag on your back, and call yourself asshole idiot or king whatever you eat either way someone's coming for you

right you know the bright red light shining all the time you know well so i mean look at some point at at at some point you guys started like i mean you started you were full time basically giving these guys the drug dealers you're you're giving them escorts right you're like that one time when the the they were about to raid the guys in the the grocery store where they're selling kilos That made me worth my weight in gold. Oh, I'm sure. Diaz said, and Mike was worth his weight in gold. So the cops are about to raid this grocery store where they're selling keys out of the back of the grocery store.

And you go. You can get pampas and sugars. So he finds out about it, whips around, comes in, goes into the store to get a couple beers, goes up to the counter and you tell. I go. You tell Diaz, right? Oh, was that just some worker? When you say that in the thing, I was wondering, like, like, Diaz is running the cash register?

No, no. This is just, this guy. This is just his cash ready as the worker. You just lean in and say, cut it, cut it, cut it. And he looks at me, I go, shut it, because I didn't know if he knew this meant that. Right. Or if he knew that I was the mark, you know, because I never met these people. Right.

Well, do you even know, you don't probably, do you even know that he knows what's really happening in the back or you know he knows? Oh, he knows. He got to know. There's no way. Okay. No, the guys are walking with bags of money and shit, you know. And he might tell him, go to the back, you know,

if someone knew or unaware what to do, you know. You know, they're coming in with, back then it was a shoeboxes filled with money. And that's, when you're buying a kilo or two, you know, you're coming in with stacks of thousands like this, you know. So, and I would be, I'd be like, I can't believe these guys are standing in front of the store with boxes. Like, they're standing in front of the store with boxes. shoe boxes.

I mean, am I that stupid? You got brand new Nike size 12 and this is a size 8. They must also feel invincible though. I mean, I've written in stories where the drug dealers were paying FBI agents to,

and so they, he was like, oh, I was bulletproof. I felt untouchable. It's like, I'm paying a, I'm paying an FBI agent. He said, he's calling me. He's like, if I meet somebody, I call him up and say,

hey, this is the guy's name, run him. he comes back like an hour later and says uh-uh he was arrested two weeks ago he's currently this he's going to don't work he's operating or they go he's good never heard of that guy and so they feel not just that they would have guys get arrested call the FBI and the FBI he's like in like two hours later the cops come to him and say okay we're releasing you yeah they just called to say look he's a CI let him go right now yeah they just he's like I've been right out it's all the time so yeah but yeah so I can imagine they felt in their But, so walking around with the walking, being pretty obvious, probably not that big of a deal today.

At that point, they'd say, well, we got Mike. Yeah, well, yeah, well, but I was like the one who told him, listen, you got to tamp that shit down because it's one, it's over the top. You know, I'm trying to, see, because what I'm trying to do is to keep them from getting on the radar for narcotics. Right. Because if they're on narcotics radar, I don't work for narcotics. I'm a patrolman, right?

So I'm trying to keep them off the radar for narcotics. I make a phone call to narcotics on its competition, and the guy on narcotics says, oh, you mean 522 New Jersey on the corner of Vermont and Nulat's? I go, oh, it's 521 across the street. Right. But now you're going. He goes, oh, we're not aware of that one. I go, yeah, well, that's the one.

That's the one that's really doing bad stuff right now. I'm going to tell a guy. This is my guy's store. I just gave me the address to. He says, we're in that. We got that. We're on that one. I'm like, I can't believe. Because my guy complained,

my Adam complained to me. He says, the guy, of course, his treats lower in his prices. So, I mean, I sent cops in there on duty, off duty. We shook the place down, on duty, off duty. We threatened this guy to shut him down, right? And then we'd sit in front of his store and chase people. So he had no business going on for about a week. Meanwhile, we go around the bar over on Blake.

Dumont Avenue and right by Vermont. And there's this Jeep Wrangler sitting there with two guys with beards, you know. So I go, hey, what's going on, guys? Hey, yeah, we're doing a stakeout around the block. I don't know where because there's six spots around the block, but I know one is mine. Right. So I go around the block and I walked in the store and I picked up two Heinekins. They opened up the, oh, I don't know if they opened them while.

They probably did. Open up the Hynichens. put them in a brown paper bag, worked out, shut it down. Now, walked out the store, got in the car, called the beeper, because the beeper thing I had to call. Yeah.

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So I told it in reverse. So I hit the page, I waited like 30 seconds. They didn't call the pay phone back. I said, I can't do this. Went inside, shut them down, left. about a half an hour later we circled back and they got lights, dogs, a team of 40

guys going in through, in and out of the place. But they didn't find anything. They found nothing. They couldn't even find salt in the place. So, yeah, so, you know, I laugh, but, you know, it's, you laugh, you know, I really shouldn't laugh. But it is.

You know what I'm saying? I hate when I do podcasts and then guys come back and they, he's not even sorry. Right. bragging. Well, you didn't see me come on the podcast to cry and apologize. Right. I'm not hearing that. I'm here to tell you the story. I didn't cry that day. No one got hurt. Right. No one got hurt, which was the key thing, which I always had said to Diaz, it says, if somebody gets hurt, if a cop gets hurt, I don't mean like he's tripped and broke him.

Right. If a cop gets injured, doing one of your operations or shot at, you know, or injured severely, I said, I'll turn myself in. I said, I'm not going to with that on my conscience. All right. And, and if you, if you spoke to Diaz, if you saw him in the, yeah, he's just, he's a nice guy. I mean, he has people, if he has to, don't get me wrong. Oh, the nicest guy I've met that are, the nicest murderers I've met, and they're just super, you know, Johnny A-Light, you know, Larry Mazza, you know, I did it with Larry yesterday.

Yeah, I know Johnny, I mean, I've been out with Johnny a dozen times, you know, and I mean, those guys between the two of them that killed 40, 50 people, but then the nicest guys you ever want to meet in your life. You know, I was going to tell you, you know the police officer that, was it, did he take his baton or a plunderer? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Huh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was in Coleman? Yeah, was he in Coleman? You know, it was in Minnesota, so wasn't he? No, he was in Coleman for a couple of years. I'm sure he had been many places. So there was a police officer who had arrested some guy, guy's mouthing off, and... They knew this guy. He was a pain in the prick.

Yeah, and he... He was a setup. This guy was a setup. He was constantly baiting the police. Right. And so he's mouthing off. He's this. I forget... What did you remember what Bollby's first name is? Anyway, the cop gets frustrated. Basically takes his baton in the police department, right? Right, in the bathroom.

Right in the guy's ass. at now i i you know and when so i had met yeah you like that i don't think it went that smooth but uh uh he uh but oh god this is horrible see this is and so anyway perforated the guy yeah yeah he so yeah so there was there was definitely you know he didn't light candles there was no soft music so um anyway so it's a bad situation right so he ends up of course he gets mad he's fired they bring up charges everything he gets he goes 30 years yeah they yeah they gave him 30 he played guilty in the middle of the trial he's like i i i just pled guilty like it was obvious i was going to get he was just going so wrong and when so

when we were talking that colman that's how he that's how he was he was going to get 35 right he he ends up he pleads guilty in the middle of the trial he played guilty oh i didn't know that oh he's he said i was it was so over the top bad that he said listening to it i just right oh yeah couldn't yeah you know you hate yourself when you listen to what they say. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And he's like, he's like, this is so, this is so going so wrong. He's like, I could look at the jury and I could tell. It's over. It's over. And of course, this is the thing, like, the jury doesn't know what you're facing. Right. So the jury's like, did he do it? Yeah, he did. Do you believe he did? Yes, I believe it. Okay. They go home and they think, he's probably going to get probation or he's probably,

he's probably going to get five or ten years. He's going to do eight. Yeah, yeah, that's what they think and then boom you get 30 you get 35 or 40 years and they go what now granted what he did was up but still you typically don't give a rapist that kind of of sentence so the point is is that he end up in prison nicest guy and was it adjusted just thank you yes and when we talk one time I remember I looked at him and I went I go bro I mean honestly what the he's like I don't know he's like I was you know you have to understand you have to be there you have to be and just feel invincible and this was what I was doing and this steroids and he's

telling him out yeah and I'm just going I go still and he's like ah come on what are you doing I said I'm not trying to make you feel bad I mean we're two guys in the library laugh yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's not laughable what it's not laughable but it's it's comical for some to actually you mean you shoved your boom stick on but yeah it's I mean what the where even what do you how did that you exactly from he tied me You know the PSI, right? Your pre-sentence? Oh, yeah. He said the PSI, the, the, um, he said when he, so when you, when you, when you get in trouble. The guy got $7 million and he lived.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no death or anything. I mean, but switch is on. No, I, it's horrific too. There's no way to justify it. Whatever. It is what it is. Deal with it. So, um, the point is, is when he's doing his PSI, which it means the probation officer comes and they, they interview you for a pre-sentence report that goes to the judge. So the judge can try and determine. what your sentence should be and there's a whole yeah yeah and try and and if there are any mitigating circumstances you know to give you the high end of the guidelines or even the low end you know and so they come to him and so while he's being interviewed he told me he goes while

he was being interviewed by the by the um probation officer well I think it was a male permit he said while he's for him the guy starts asking he was like is there any um anything in your past like uh any abuse anything and he said he's He's looking at him and Justin goes, he goes, no, no, no, there were, there were no no funny pony rides in my, in, in my childhood, if that's what you asked. And I mean, it's like, funny pony rides. And he said, I know. My dad was there.

My dad was like, funny pony rides like, that's like, that's like even strong. You're okay? What is, what is he, funny pony ride? He's like, I don't know. It was, listen, obviously, the, the, the conversation is. in prison are not like the conversations you have with your buddy that works at Walmart. Clearly, you're dealing with a different. And everybody's done something, or heard of something.

Yeah. Yeah. So he was a little off. Nice guy, though. But I heard. Seemed like a nice. Of course, I had never been arrested. I had never put it a pony ride, but now when I think a pony, you know.

Yeah, that'll definitely come up. Yeah. Yeah. I can't see him in for pony. So I was the face of corruption. Oh, yeah. All right. In 92, I get arrested.

So I get sentenced in 94. He perforates this guy in 96. seven right so the city's just starting you got lucky then well i know i said i never got lucky this is the city yeah no the city is just starting to heal from the from the trauma that i put it through they changed the whole patrol guide they had a whole new division or the bureau they call it they went from internal affairs division to internal affairs bureau which means it's now it's so what that means is they've now created another layer layer so it's now it's over it's over it's like so you have the detective bureau and the uh internal affairs bureau because it used to be iad which was a division

right now it's a bureau so there's nothing above that except right but bureau basically you got kind of govern yourself you self-governed right okay correct so before they were division they could be told back off correct okay now they're their own bureau yeah so anyway so that i i I created. Thank you. And that, there's the chiefs that I gave jobs

because they were... I'm sure that's how they look at it too. Probably everybody wants to thank you. One of them I heard, because I hear stories throughout the years and one of them says, I finally got a out case. Like,

really? Like, like... I got one. Like a Charles, like a Charles Ponzi. Like, hey. A Manson. A Manson. A Manson case.

I got me a Manson. Now you've got a whole thing named after you. It's like like Ponzi. Like before Charles Ponzi, it was the Peter Paul scam. Now we renamed, we named corruption after you. Yeah, right, right. They got a Michael Dowd kicks. Something.

Yeah, internal affairs. Oh, I got me and Michael Dowell. Look at those, it's going to be a career maker. Right. And that guy ended up getting arrested. The guy that publicly said it got arrested, he was, he got arrested for taking money or, I should even say taking money. I think he got arrested for doing favors on summonsers.

cutting people like don't worry about it we'll get rid of we'll get rid of the summons like how small how small is the you're really a big shot you got a doubt case you the smallest of cases that they got rid of you for some shit like that but well it's like you know what's fun well i was going to say look sometimes some guys some guys do insane shit probably their entire career and never have it come back on them some guys do something minor and get caught immediately right because i was going to say you went years and years and years doing not that it's minor well it's it It is minor in comparison where you're... A couple thousand here, a thousand here, 500 here.

But when you leapt to, hey, you give me $8,000 a month, I'm going to watch out for you, I'm going to do this, I'm going to give you the heads up. If I come across it, I'm going to this, I'm going to that, I'm going to escort your guys, I'm going to do this. So you have a whole litany of things that you're doing for this money. You know, that really just, like, that's actually your partner. What was your partner's name? Kenny, when he was like, he went like within a month from taking like a hundred bucks.

to boom we're making $8,000 a week doing this yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he went from being a normal cop yeah him slipping him like a hundred bucks and then like a month later boom okay here's what we're doing yeah we'll get eight down what yeah how did it was just go from me getting a hundred bucks which i didn't even spend yeah yeah yeah i kept in my locker to eight that but but he was a cheap cocksucker i mean he was he didn't he didn't he didn't he loved listen so so in in hindsight and and even at the time i recognized at the time that he could say know right now. Oh yeah, yeah. And then everything would be okay. Like I, it's not like a Serpico situation. Yeah. I never put in a situation where he had to do this. Right.

Because I made a determination that that I was going to be a police officer until I get arrested or quit or get three quarters disability, which is what my goal was. And so, but what happened, my goal to get injured because I, yeah, that's your goal. If you get a best case scenario, I twist my knee. Yeah, no, yeah. Bad knee. Slight limp. Yeah, good.

Three quarters. Three quarters. Disability for the rest of your life, tax free. So, yeah, I mean, that's the goal. So that was my goal, and I had it. It was well, at any minute I could have done it because I needed surgery on either knee because both meniscuses were torn for playing ice hockey. So I started out with a, I started out with a pension.

If I, but the money was so good and I would just liked it. Yeah. I just liked it. I liked going to work and just being important. Oh, yeah, no doubt. Absolutely. I mean, I know, I know, like, I never retired, right? I didn't get a chance. But when I talk to guys, I had to retired, like, they're like impotent. It sucks. They're like, I'm not important anymore. Like, you know, they think they are, but they know they're not, you know? And even their wives hate them. And they get half their pension and they leave them. You know, so, yeah, so I get it now. But at the time, I was faced with choices. You know, if Kenny had told me, I'm not doing it, you know, I'll have a beer with you at Joe's Modena, but I'm not going to do this. I would have said, okay, and I would have just probably,

and I don't want to say this for sure, I would have just went on and did my thing, probably got a pension and left. But instead I had a- But I got a partner in crime. I had a willing partner in crime, and I said, this is great. Because now I got a guy who was all in, and he was, was all in,

So what happens in the, it doesn't really show up in the movie. What happens is, doesn't it all show up in the movie, is Kennedy-R-R-L, I know he's a little soft in the underbelly, right? And so I end up going away to rehab, you know, because I was in, you can't have a drug problem in the police department because you get terminated. So I told him I had an alcohol problem, which, right, whatever. And I go up to the rehab.

And while I was away to rehab, I told Kenny, you know, Kenny, I found out a little bit of more information. By going into rehab, they came to, like the counselors, which are cops, said, listen, you're a lot of hot water from what we know. And you just need to stop whatever you're doing, do your rehab time, and then pray and go to church. This is what the guy said, and go to church every Sunday. I said, okay, young, 26, 25, whatever if I was, yeah, okay. sure. But I knew a problem could arise from a weak link. So in the meantime, three of my friends get arrested for shaking down a bodega for doing an armed robbery. So they're out. I put a bail for one and put one in my house because his family kicks him out. He's got nowhere to go. And his

name is Walter, that big Walter in the, big water. I end up putting them in my house. In the meantime, I tell Kenny, you got to get hurt. It's Fourth of July weekend. It's 4th of July weekend. I'm in a rehab, we just came home from rehab, and Kenny's not getting any patrol assignments, because if you go on patrol, you're going to get hurt, right? Because it's arrest. Every day there's an arrest.

But it's 4th of July weekend that everybody's out on details, like in Manhattan, doing parade duties, all this shit, so they're short manpower. So Kenny hasn't been on patrol in four months, not one day. What's he doing? He's in the station house. Okay. paperwork.

Yeah, Paul, answering, clerical shit, because they don't want him out there. Fourth to July weekend, they're short. They put him in a car. It's the first day. He makes an arrest. Some kind of fence was involved, whatever. He grabs the mulch, brings them in,

and goes into the bathroom and breaks his hand. Oh, on the sink. And he already broke it once before. So now he goes, ah, he slams it on the porcelain sink, breaks it because he's left-handed. He breaks his hand. He goes in and tells the boss. He says, ah, making the arrest, I got hurt,

grabbing this guy over the fence, whatever. No one gives off feet. thinking he's not thinking he's under investigation he needs to get off the job he breaks his he never go that one day on patrol breaks his wrist never goes back to work he gets a three-quarters disability pension I get it for him because my car my uncle runs the pension section right I call he gets he gets medically clear medically approved because you can't have a cop with a bad risk that has broken now twice in the last like say six years right because now he's going to be shooting a gun. What if his wrist goes bad in the middle of shooting a gun and kills the kid

instead of the old man? You're right. So they approve him medically. Now it's supposed to take a year to two to get released through the pension system. I call my uncle. I say unc. Kenny's just approved yesterday. He goes, okay, he's going to take 30 days. He goes from the bottom of the pile to the top of the pile. He's walking out the door and who's walking in? Because you go before the pension board. Pension board, boom, approved. you're done he's walking out the door in comes Tromboli the guy that was following me for years right past the dinner in front of my house

his wife kicking him out the door he's walking in to interview him and Trambole goes you're out he goes I wasn't there but I was told he goes he says to him what are you doing here he says I'm sorry Sarge I got nothing to say to you he goes what do you mean he goes I'm off the job

I'm retired three quarters disability he goes I wanted to ask you about doubt he goes, I'd love to tell you. He says, but I'm not required to talk to you right now. I'm done. Got to go. But the love to tell you thing was in there, you know? He wanted to tell him.

So he leaves, he gets us to recruit his disability. Now he's sitting at home board. Likes the action. That's right. That's right. He likes the action. Okay. He likes the action.

So I'm running around now. I've made it through the rehab two years. I went to two years of rehab work. And then Kenny is calling me. up. I need some, I need some work. I need some bricks. I need something. I didn't know he was involved with drugs. Right. I had no idea. Was he before or just, this is just something he decided to do. So what happened was this. People, this story is so. Yeah. His cousin was a cop in a seven, three, was bringing home shit they were stealing from the drug dealers. Right. Giving it to Kenny and

Kenny was selling it. I have no idea. So one day, he says to me, Mike, could you help me get a piece of, you know, eight, big eight, you know, whatever, whatever they want a half a key. I go, of course I can't. So he goes, okay, anyway, I go to his house to pick up the money and they're there. The cops are everywhere, like laying clothes. So he doesn't know it. I go, Kenny, your house is on his pistol. He goes, what do you mean?

I go, there's cops all over the place here. He goes, I just left your house and two cops were following me. He goes, and you know, there were cops. I said, Kenny, left your house, I circled the block. There are two cops cars worth of plain clothes. Follow me, twisting, going in different directions. he says, Mike, they've been following you for five years. He says, this is probably still following you.

I go, I don't know, Kenny, this seemed a little different. P.S., he hangs up, I leave his house. I get a car, go to work, pick up tequila, whatever. He gets on the phone, I don't know this, I'm not there. It comes up later on. And he's on the phone, his phone's tapped. He's calling the 7-3 precinct to have his cousin run a license plate. The license plate comes back to Suffolk.

County Police Department. He keep telling me. Right. For the next month and a half while they're investigating us, he already knew that Suffolk County PD was following us. He never told me. He didn't change his act either. He ends up getting arrested.

I mean, the things that took place were insane. I get arrested. I get arrested eventually. It was May 6, 1992. Now, that was the fourth day after the burnt L.A. down. Three or four days after Rodney King, I guess they're not guilty trial. Yeah, yeah, not guilty. They're not guilty verdict.

Yeah, and they were burning the city down. They burned in New York City down. They'd burn, breaking everything up. This whole thing, this is sometime in, let's say, March. He was actually under investigation from January, which I didn't know. I come into the picture sometime in March. I go away to the Cayman Islands. I come back from the Cayman Islands, and I want to set up a little bit of an organization

where I don't have to do any more work. Just put my money up. Let my Dominican friends sell cocaine, and I'm just a part of a business. We end up pulling our money together. But you're still a police officer, of us. Well, I'm sorry. It was the given. I mean, yeah.

I was like, I've told you. I'm not going to, I'm getting out one of three ways. Arrested, injured or retired, one of the three. So I set up this organization where I don't have to do, we just put the money up. And it was a difficult time. It was around Easter, and the price of cocaine doubled. It went from 17, 5 to 34. 35,000 a kilo.

So our numbers kept moving. And so at this point, I didn't want to lay out all of the money. So I encourage Kenny to come. Kenny goes ahead and he calls up three of the guys from the 73rd precinct and tells him to meet him to put the money. So that is three cops from the 73rd precinct, his cousin and two of his... Are putting up money to invest in cocaine. Cocaine business.

Of course. Yeah, of course. And then you have Kenny. So you have three costs to the 73, Kenny, myself and my part. I couldn't leave my partner out. I didn't need him, but, you know, he's my partner. If I'm going to be making moves, he's out of get a piece of something, right? So now does five of us involve in this kilo distribution ring, right?

And some other cop gets arrested for steroids. Anyway, so we had this whole thing set up as working like a clock. The first week we put 54,000 back in our pockets, which each? No. So 35 was the investment. Okay. We got back 54,000. Okay.

So the next week, it would be 35 and get something similar. But I was a little annoyed. I wanted to be more. I wanted to double the money. I want 70,000. So the next week it's going to be 70,000, not 54. That's bullshit. So, I mean, I mean, if selling 20 kilos a day, I got to, you know, I want two.

Yeah. So you're flipping yours. I want mine flipped along. This is the truth. This is the way it is, right? Right. Why should I get double my money? I give you 35.

I want 70. Can we do this? The answer was yes. So don't give me 54. So next week, anyway, next week doesn't come, by the way. So in the interim, Kenny's got to pick up a piece for himself to sell. So now he's got this machine going that I set up, and he's got to pick up a piece. So I've got to pick up, I don't know, half a kilo or something from somebody in Brooklyn

and in the patrol car. I meet him at work. The guy jumps in the back of patrol car, and now they got me on film. And I'm knowing it. I'm knowing something's wrong. And, like, I'm looking up, there's a, there's a apartment building upstairs, and there's a building over here, a rectory, a church rectory. And I see, like, it looks like there's cameras in these windows? Is this possible?

You know, like, when you know, but you say, no, it's not really happening. No, you feel, you still feel untouchable. It's not camera on me. The camera's on somebody else right now. Two cameras, one there, one there. And it's funny because in the model commission hearings that was where I testified, they'd show it. Right. They show those angles from cameras of me getting in and out of patrol car and the guy jumping in the back of the patrol cars.

I drive off. And the funny thing was, he normally just hand me the shit. I go, keep it whoa. Like, here I am saying, keep it whoa. Because I know. Yeah. Like, you know and you know, and there's nothing you can do. like you handed the paperwork in for your fraud

and this could be the last one and you're knowing it like I'm knowing something wrong and so I keep that thing low so he hands it like the seats break in the middle he hands it through me in the seat and I was so careful to keep it low that the cameras couldn't see it

and of course we're driving so the cameras are not they're stationary right I mean think about what I'm telling you I know I'm being filmed in uniform receiving kilos from a guy that's a Colombian in a

and I just pick it and I good stuff sucked but it was better than nothing and the price was a premium I get the shit I drive around the block I meet Kenny

I give it to Kenny and there's a car parked behind Kenny and I see the car Kenny doesn't see it, I see it He goes home with the package I do patrol And I don't get called

Like the whole time There's no radio runs For two days now There's been no radio runs to me So I've been like I'm on patrol And there's no calls for my sector For two days

Does that ever happen before No, never happened. Not even a day. No. No. And I'm in a less busy place now. Right. I've gone to rehab and now, instead of going back to the 7-5, I'm now in the 9-4 precinct, which is heaven.

Anyway, heaven for patrol work. Right. Oh, my God. The cat and the tree type thing, you know. Well, the drunk Polish guy, but in the wrong house, they go to the wrong house. And it's the same house, but it's on the room block. You know, they're a block off. And that's my night, you know.

So, and no calls. and then all of a sudden we get a call. So, what am I, 9-4-Henry, 9-4-Henry. 10-2, I was like, hmm, 10-2, why would they call us back to the precinct? And I look at my partner. And we've done nothing wrong here today. We've done nothing wrong here today.

You know, I maybe dropped the head of a kilo. No one's business, you know. You didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody. We're good. So I drive back to the precinct. But I go the wrong way on a one-way street to the precinct, which is the first time I ever did this.

So it's just by accident? No, something's not right. I'm driving to my maker right now, and I'm like, the something's not right. And I see this car to my, as I'm pulling up to the precinct. Now, the car is facing the tracks. It's one way. The car's facing this way, and I'm pulling up this way.

And I look, and there's two guys sitting in the front seat of the car. I'm playing clothes. I'm like, that's a little odd. So I'd pull in, I just had gotten two big gulps filled with vodka and seven up. Absolute big ones like this. Took a big head off of one. I did a couple of bumps. I was doing good, right?

Get out of the car. I walk into the precinct and I hear footsteps behind me. And I'm like, don't turn around. Let's hear it be good. This just can't be good news. So it's like I know I'm walking in to the end. But, you know, there's nothing that you can do. It's nothing you can do.

If it's over, it's over. It's happening. There's no, there's no move you can make during this process that changes anything. Except get back in the patrol car and drive to Pennsylvania, Maine. Well, Canada. Yeah. One of the two. So I'm like, okay.

I woke up to the desk and I go, what's up? So I said 10-2. And the guy, the son who's at the desk is like mortified. He goes, go to the captain. He wants to speak to you. It's set up. This is a setup. He knows he's setting me up.

He just doesn't know what to do. No, there's nothing. He's following orders. So he points, we turn around to go to the cat's office, and up comes these two detectives from internal affairs with their trench coats on and their badges. This is the lieutenant so and so on, blah, blah, blah. We're taking you for a department order drum test.

I'm like, that's all. This is perfect. My career ends here. Right. it's over I'm going to go downstairs and change put my shit on my my civilian clothes go take the piss test fail and do it didn't work out it didn't work out that way but so I'm getting dressed downstairs now that they order this downstairs this isn't the scene is insane I'm downstairs trying to get dressed and the cop plane clothes detective is almost humping me he's so

I can't move I'm trying to I go Can I Am I ever arrest I know something's wrong here Am I under arrest? He goes

No why would you just sign that I said because you're so close to me I couldn't bend my knee To take my pants off To put my civilian clothes on He goes no So I go would you back up And now I'm getting pissed

Would you back up? So he goes like this So he goes like this So he was went from here to here. He gave me like an inch more room. Oh, this is serious because he's on my shit. So now in my pants is the cocaine that, you know, because on the run.

Some cocaine. Yeah, five grams, whatever. Yeah, not the keel up. No, no, that's gone to Kenney. He's got that on Long Island. I'm trying to get dressed. Can't get dressed. Now, I go to him, now, you know something's wrong.

What I know, I go to him, you think I should take my off-duty service revolve? my Wolf 30 Bravo or leave it. He goes, I can leave it there. You can come back and get it later. He says to me, he says to me, so, wow. He might be all right. I'll be back. Yeah, I'll be back.

Get outside, get in the patrol, back to the plane closed in the car. And I'm saying, I got to get rid of this cocaine. So I'm like, how am I going to do this? So I go, I look at, I look at, there's no handles. There's no handles and no windows on the door. So I can't even, I can't open. window and I can't open the door. So I go, and I turn around and I look at them, I go, I don't know what this is about, but one thing I want you guys to know is my partner has nothing to do with

it. Whatever this is, my partner has nothing to do with it. I want to exploit this kid because I feel bad. I was, he followed me, you know, and I love the guy. And he's my god's, he's the godfather of my kid. And if I'm, if I go down, at least someone can survive this. not but anyway don't you worry about him he's got his own things now he's already been arrested for murder and beat the charge okay so that's why we're together because no one will work with him

and no one will work with me so this is so much I skipped to get to get to this point yeah so now we're in back of so how am I going to get rid of this cocaine because God forbid I do get pissed I might get pinched here right so but God forbid so you're going to fail the piss test anyway for cocaine yes it's going to line up

it's going to line it up I just took a bump a couple minutes ago so it's got And yesterday, they fought, it's good. So, I go, I know to smoke a cigarette. They go, okay, yeah, no problem. I smoked that cigarette, and then I smoked another one right behind it. You couldn't, there was a layer of fog inside the car. You guys, can you open a window?

I want them to open the window. I mean, this is like a 15-minute drive from there to Jamaica where we're going to go take the piss test. They didn't open the fucking window once. So I said, okay, no problem. When I get out in Jamaica, or Jackson Heights, where the left rack city I was going over the left rack city where the police

has their medical office I mean you gotta understand police medical office okay like maybe have their own medical division okay it's like because there's 35,000 cops they have a medical division they have two floors of an awful four floors of an office building with like 700 offices in it

it's just it's massive it's a massive bureaucracy and so I get out of the car and right there like and I turn around and there's a phalanx, a phalanx of brass. If you know what brass means, the guys with the brass on the hats and the... Lieutenant, the Curry, yeah, yeah, all the...

All the bosses, phalanx of them, all the way from the street, and it's about 40, 50 feet from the street to the entranceway door. Then there's the entranceway phalanx. There's the hallway phalanx, and the button opens up on the elevator, and there's a look up, there's a guy with more scrambled legs. on his hat than I've ever seen in my career because he was a chief. The chief was standing in front of me and a deputy inspector, both of them's like this. And I just got on the elevator and I turned around and I was standing between them.

I don't know who will they all. And then the guys that brought me in went up with the sort of us in the elevator. Open up the elevator on the 16th floor, I think it was. And sure enough, another half a dozen scrambled eggs on each side, phalanxing me into this. Did you realize at this point this is for you? or are you still thinking this is just as coincidences? Is it overwhelmingly obvious?

This is here for me. This is, they're doing this one of, I don't, I don't, I don't, I, I don't, it hasn't hit me yet. Okay. Yeah. You just think this is weird. This is weird. Yeah. Because I don't know, this, I don't know that this six cops getting arrested.

Right. And that there's been an ongoing investigate. Well, you knew there was an, they were, you know, but you didn't realize it was this. You didn't realize it was this mass. You didn't realize it was this mass. Well, they invested in you, right? Forever. Right.

So for five years, and I've been dealing with this shit, it's still a big deal. Right. This is fake. This is fake. These 147 cops from internal affairs are on my case.

And I think I'm seeing shadows. I think it's paranoia. But it's not. It's real. But I'm thinking I'm crazy. So now they're all in uniform. Fellanks in this place. They open up the door and there's this lieutenant

who's been after me for four years. Because he tried to piss test me out. four years ago or five years ago, whatever it was. And he stared at there with this grit on his face. And he goes, okay, Dad, I got you here. He's a whole, with an H, I forget his name, I'm going to smack him. Anyway, because he's a prick. He yells at me one time, get in here now.

I says, what do you mean get in here now? I'm sick. He was on sick leave. He goes, I'm lieutenant so-and-so in charge of health services. And I, and he goes like this. And I'm ordering this officer like he pulls the phone away. And I'm ordering this officer to get in here today by noon, and he's saying he's sick.

I know you're sick, officer. I'm telling you to get, like, you can tell it. I'm telling you to get in here now. He's like, could you imagine this guy's to? Dude, all right, I'm on my way. I get there, and they bring me into psych services, and I ended up going away to the farm for two years. But anyway, so he's there now, and he's got me.

He's got to get me to piss because they tried to do it to me before, but I beat them. See, so I beat them. and I can't beat this. So I'm about to piss. I think I've got to piss and go home. So I take the piss and go like, I'm drunk now because they're drunk. Now the drink is hitting me.

Right. And I'm realizing, ah, it's just going to be over. It's good. Like, I can go home. I can go home and just convilch with the family and say, what are they going to do now with the rest of their life? So here I am. The guy's finally got me to take the piss test. I piss in his cup.

I'm like, I'm happy it's over. You know, we'll see you tomorrow. You know, have a nice night. And I turn around and then goes, and in walks these two other guys into this small cubicle area and he goes Suffolk County detectives and I go, oh, it's okay, let's stop.

You're on the arrest for conspiracy to distribute the narcotics. I go, oh, okay. I should just say, the nerve of you, I mean, right. Like, so one of the things is, you know, the newspaper accounts is,

and he just, you know, turn around matter-factually, you know, kick and scream and say, go get yourselves. I mean, you know, it's like, boy, it'll be on my bat. They booked the cuffs on me. So now they go to search my pockets.

Right. And I got that cocaine in my pockets that I couldn't get rid of yet. The 14 times I tried to move it out. And the guy goes, oh, look, that's got out of here. And I go, I got a little problem. I go, I got a little bit of a problem. What else? You know, so what, you know?

So, so ta-ta-da-da-at. So back in the patrol car, they had to take me out to Suffolk County because that's where they're booking me. See, the whole thing here is the city's pissing. store. Right. Because they didn't get their guy. The out of jurisdiction got the guy. Right. You're not because you're not, you're not, you're in the city. You're not at Suffolk County. I'm not Suffolk County police officer or anything. And they, they've had me on their investigation for five years and they couldn't put a bench on me. But Suffolk County has an investigation for three months and they got me, you know,

because they got me because they got me because of the wires. Well, because of the wires. Kenny didn't give me up. Yeah. It was wires that got me. And then Kenny on bail puts a fire on and then he gets me. People don't know, people don't know how the story actually breaks out, but that's how it breaks out. So he tells the story is exhausting, you know. And how much should we skip when we tell these stories, right? Like 80% or more of it, right? In fact, I'm working on getting a screenplay done now because they can't get it down. They've been working on it for five years of screenplay to do a movie, a remake movie of the 75 documentary, and they just can't get it. So I'd been through the mill with all kinds of involvement with different people in

Hollywood. Right. Frank Scott, who did Get Shorty. I never saw it. You never saw it get Shorty? No, I never saw it. Yeah. John Travolta, it's a great movie. Yeah, the guy who wrote that was supposed to do that. Then it was Scott Gilles, Gillespie, a guy named Gillespie who did I-Tanya. I don't know, I-Tanya movie with the ice skater girl. The ice skater. Oh, like Tanya for Tanya Harder. Tanya Hart. Yeah. Well, wait, real quick. You, how much time did you get? I got 14, well, so I ended up getting a 14, 168 month sentence. Okay.

You have 14 years. And then you went to, you went to prison, obviously. Yeah, I went to prison. I started out in, well, I did FCC for two years waiting to be sentenced. When you got grabbed, did you ever get out on bond? No. From Suffolk County, I did. Right.

But then when I was out and they set me up to the feds, no bond. Yeah. I mean, I could have tried to get bond, but my lawyer is like, dude, you're going to I'm going to do some time, so you might as well start now. That's exactly what he said. Yeah, that's sure. Yeah. Unless you're mounting, there's no reason to be out unless you're mounting a defense,

like you're trying to go to trial. Well, you can't. So, so to be fair, I was going to go to trial because the first plea over was 24 to 30 years. And you know what that's like, you know, I'm like, who the fuck did I kill? Right. You know, so knowing that I was going to do sometime, I, you know, I was shocked to see their first plea, they don't call them.

offers, they call them agreements. Like the first plea agreement was for 30 years. And I said, I'm not fucking doing. I'm going to try and might as well go to try and might not go to trial. So that's what was my approach for the first six months or so. And then they knocked it down to like 24 and then they knocked it down to 17. And I still said, you know what? I ain't doing 17 years without going to trial for it.

So I pushed it and pushed it and pushed it. It probably lasted a little over a year. And then the Malin Commission people came to me. and said, we'll write a letter to you judge for you if you help us. And so I turned them down twice, and the third time they came to me was shortly after they said I did nine murders in the ghetto. And I'm like, okay, well, this is, I did the newspaper. You know, just bullshit? I mean, I know it's bullshit, but I'm saying, where did they come up with that?

Somebody said something. They're looking for, there's nine murders that they can't figure out around this period of time when I had a brand new nine millimeter gun. And they were all nine millimeter murders. I mean, at the ghetto, everybody gets killed with a nine. Right. Anyway, so they were investigating me and my partner for nine murders, specifically me, I guess, because Kenny's like a good guy. And so it was all the news.

I'm like, listen, I didn't do any murders. Oh, by the way, my own commission called again today and asked if you could please, you know, cooperate with them. And what were they investigating? What were that commission investigating? Their task was to investigate corruption in the city. And basically, just a systematic like mine was. whatever. And so I drew them a roadmap. I showed them how to do it. They arrested the whole 30th precincty. They called it the dirty 30. They invested the whole night shift, which is 30 guys

on the 30th precinct. We're all in the cahoots. I don't know anybody. I didn't know anybody. But I showed them how to catch me. Right. Something like you might have done to show which company. The ethics and fraud thing. Like, look. Same thing. So I showed them how to catch me. I said, you don't put a sign, look over here for cash. You know, dude, you got to make it, the cop's going to be a little more, like, surprised or industrious. Don't make it, don't put a sign, check under ice cubes for cash. They're going to check.

You don't need to tell them, you know, so don't make it so obvious. So anyway, so I gave him a few points like that, and I told them how and how I would do, how I would see a scene and how I would assess it and how I would know I wasn't being set up. So they did what I told them. And they got the whole 30th precinct. They got a couple of the bunch of guys. So now when I went to get sentenced,

they wrote a letter to the judge saying that I was honest and helpful. That's all they would say. Was this sentence in the state or the feds? I didn't have got sentenced in the state because they subsumed the superseding indictment and it all won. Right. To make it a RICO case. So I was, yeah.

Okay. So I got the RICO. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Okay. I got a RICO indictment. and I pled guilty to it.

So I faced zero to life, based 10th of life at my sentencing. Did the U.S. attorney recommend that you get the low end of the guidelines or anything? No, no, no. No, he was against everything. He was sort of like what you had to deal with when you were through. Like, there was no friend in that courtroom except for the letter. And the judge witnessed my testimony. And even partly to my dismay is some of my sentence, like some of the testimony wasn't very good.

You know, like I stole money from some girl, like 300 under the Bible. The money, the mother hid the money under the Bible. I asked, hey, is there any hidden money in the house that they might have a problem? And she goes, well, she's on the phone mom. They have me. She goes, check under the Bible. So I feel that. Yeah.

Looks like the burglars got it. Yeah, they got it. So, you know, and that's a real shitty thing to do, you know. Right. But part of my justification, well, we all do shitty thing. Yeah. Part of the justification one. Listen, you don't want to explain to me.

I know. But, you know. People that they hear that, like, how about can you do that? Well, you know, I got a partner next to me that's threatening me right now. He's like, you set me up. The last job, there was $11,000 in cash. You missed it. You had it in your hand. I said, take it easy, dude. I'm not looking for someone's savings. I'm looking for bags of cash like this. Right, right. Drug dealers. Yeah. I'm not looking for a nod of $11,000 that someone saved. That's a lot of, it's a lot of fucking money. I said, none of it isn't. Not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for 30, 40, 50, 50 grand in

20s, not someone's little life-saving stack. Right. So anyway, so a little story short, I ended up the next chance I could to get some money, I did, you know, it was a couple, three, four hundred dollars, whatever we took from under the girl's Bible, which was horrible. Right. And what I'm saying is when I got sentenced to judge, said, you know, Mr. Da, you know, all the things, you were very helpful, but, you know, but, you know, taking that $300 from

the Bible with the girl, you know, was not a very, I said, you know, I'm going to say. Right. She was, she was letting it know. she was aware of that, you know? Yeah, yeah. That being said, they said you were very helpful. I was going to give you a sentence to the top end of your guidelines, which were in 15 and a half years.

She said, instead, I'm not going to give you, I'm going to give you right in the middle, which is 168 months. So, so essentially, she says the Malin Commission helped me. I'll take her at a word. She could have given me more because they wanted to give me more. Right. You know, I'm sure they probably would have given me more if I didn't testify with the Malin Commission. But I gave them a hard time in being because I said, I said, you don't give a

about me or anybody else. I said, you're going to have a bunch of cops kill themselves. If I testify for a Malone Commission, a bunch of cops are going to, sure enough, 17 cops, I think, 12 cops killed himself right after I testified over the Malone Commission. So she gave me 168 months, right in the middle of the guidelines, she said, because she felt that I was instrumental in helping the New York City Police Department create the changes that they needed to make the improvements that they desired.

So it was positive in the end, you know. but it wasn't something that came easy because I was not to, because I was concerned that they didn't give them about people killing themselves, you know, and they didn't. And they plan out said to me, we don't care. I said, well, what about their families, their wives, their children? And the response was, that's too bad. Yeah, I don't know, it doesn't enter into the, it's, you know.

Yeah, it's just, it's, no, no, nobody leaves. They're expendable to. Listen, the U.S. attorneys, and I've seen these guys left and right, like you got some low-level crack dealer, who gets 15 or 20 or 25 years or 30 years. I knew a kid that was 19 years old, home sitting on his couch, his brother comes in,

you know, to reverse sting is. Right, right. Comes in and says, bro, I need you. We had a guy that was going to drive the car. He's not going to drive the car. The kid's never been in trouble before. Says, we need you to drive the car. Right.

And he goes, for what? And he's like, we know a stash house. There's money in the stash house. We're going to go, money and drugs. We're going to rob the stash house. Right. And he's like, bro, all you can do is drive the car. We're going to run out.

We're going to come back in. He's doing nothing. You're not even involved. And he's like, so he's, come on, man, I need you. He's like, okay, okay. So he goes, we're going to give you a couple hundred bucks. So he jumps in the car. He drives.

The two guys, the brother and the other guy jump out of the car to go in. They don't even get in the stash house. The cars pull up. Run out. You know, get on the ground. Get on the ground. Get on the ground. He doesn't even realize the kid is so scared.

He doesn't even realize he goes, I don't even know it's DEA. Right. He said, I think we're being robbed. He said, they start shooting. I ducked down. I hit the gas. He drives forward, hits another car.

Then they start shooting at the car. He jumps out and runs from the car. His brother has already been shot and killed, by the way. So they killed his brother. His brother, of course, pulled out guns. They got shot. Yep, they got shot. The kid starts running.

they shoot the kid, the 19-year-old kid, blow his knee, from his leg from the knee clean off. That's gone. Wow. He hits the ground, well, he loses the leg or half the leg. He ends up getting sentenced for his brother's murder. Right. Because you know how it works.

Doesn't matter. Someone dies. You tried. Three of us were gone. He's like, I was just driving the car. No, you were, you're a conspiracy to break in. It was a reverse. thing there was never any money in the drug house it was just setting up the brother brother brings him

kid's never been in trouble he pled guilty he got 30 years because he was going to get life because of the murder because the murder murder that i didn't get right you killed him it doesn't matter you knew they had guns you know what was going on he gets 30 years and i guarantee that that kid probably had they not presented that he would have never probably ever done anything he did he was just driving and i'm telling you right now that u.s attorney slept like a baby that night. Like, you could have given that kid five or ten years. I'm not saying he shouldn't have gone to prison. You can make you point. Right. Right. But that's over. Yeah, these guys have the taxpayers have to pay. These are heartless. They're heartless people. They really are. But I mean,

and that's just, you know, that it's over and over and over. And they don't. Listen, I want, you know, I hate to be political because I, my politics, you may not, I mean, they go after this guy Roger Stone because he, because he, because he, because they don't like him. I mean, they're after him again. Yeah, yeah. They're after him again. He's great. He's, I love him because he's craved him. He's odd. He's an odd ball. That's what makes this work around people like him. Now, I'm not saying you can agree with them or disagree with him, but there's not really, they got 28 guys going after a guy because he, he signed his name rule on a form? Yeah. They're all over him. I was, you know, I also wanted to mention that it's funny

because whenever I say anything about the U.S. attorney, look, let's face it, 99% of the inmates that they're guilty. They're guilty. You know, the, the sentences are just dracony. They're outrageous. They're insane long sentences. Well, they're designed to make people cooperate. Right, of course.

That's the reason. But if you're the last guy on the totem pole, you're just done. You're done. You got nothing. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing, you know, and look, let's face it, mostly you've been to prison. You don't want, I don't want to live in the neighborhood with these guys. No.

Like, these are not nice guys. No, no. Most, yeah. Yeah. But you see, I mean, the murders are the nicest guys in the joint. Yeah. Normally. They aren't.

Yeah. And they have the low of recidivism rate. That's as, and recidivism as far as once they get out, like, they never kill anybody. Yeah. Very seldomly does somebody get out and kill somebody again? No, no. No. No, still call killers. Yeah, but that's a far and few in between.

Most guys, it's an accident, or they did kill somebody. Right. But they're not, you know. Yeah, but most of the guys involved in the drug. It's so horrible. The drug trade brings violence. And, you know, he's a great guy. But, you know, yesterday he killed three people.

I mean, but meanwhile, he's making a love to. and he's raising kids. He's loving this woman, or three of them, and he's raising kids. So, I mean, it all is a perspective, you know,

here's a great daddy. Yeah. So. Just not a good, just not a good business guy. So right now there's a documentary. You refer to it as a movie a few times,

but it's a documentary right, correct. That you're hoping gets turned into a movie. Right. So right now, Ben Stiller has,

uh, the, uh, had it had a lot to be the director, so it's, it's, this is now five years in the making, okay? Right. So it's gone through several, it's gone through several, like Gillespie who directed Ita, I think, anyway, and another two or three directors have had it,

and now Ben Stiller has it, him and a few people. It's, it's, they can't get, they can't get the story right. Right. For film, I got the story of the film because I know, I mean, just picture the scene of all these scrambled legs. It's like, why on the day I got arrested? And that's, you can start in the beginning or the end of the middle. That could be the middle of the movie, because the beginning of my movie is when I come home from prison. That's heavy. Right. I mean, think about the day you got released. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm going to give you a scenario and we'll end

on this because there's so much we can talk about. The coming home from prison, right? Yeah, yeah. We'll end on this. I come home from prison with much to do, by the way, newspapers, is all this other shit, you know, bullshit. What year? 1990, no, 2004. April, I think, 2004. You think I'd remember the date, but I don't. I think it was April 13th, but I'm not sure.

Right. So, because that was the only day I slept. That was the, that was, I shouldn't say only, I slept every day, but the first day I overslept in my entire prison time was the last day. They had to wake me up. Like they knocked up, they want your shit. Yeah. The guys are waiting for your shit.

You want your sweatpants, your snaking, your cups, you're not, you know. You give away your stuff because I don't need my prison sweatpants and my sandals. Yeah, you need that. You take, you give it out on the way out. So, yeah, so they have to wake me up. So it's like a lot, I guess. And so when I, when I get home, after a couple days at the halfway house, you get a pass to go see your family. So I had a four-hour pass to go see my family.

So the scene is unreal. I'm going to my parents. Now, I'm a man who had full homes. and a condominium on the ocean in Myrtle Beach I had money out of every pocket and you know it's led to live the life and here I am I got nothing

and I look I'm going to take a shower I just want to take a shower I want to take a shower where no one's standing out the door you know when no one's waiting for me to get out you know I just I want to get my own little thing so I look out the window and there's my brother's two kids

who I don't even know their names I don't even know their names but and it hit me that the world has passed me by. Oh, yeah. It's passed me by. I don't think I belong here.

So I go to get in the shower, unless you know, 12 years in prison, I get in the shower and it lets go. I don't know if the tears or the water is wetting me. I'm so, just everything's coming out. I'm crying so hard that I'm saying to myself, you are crying so hard right now. And it just didn't stop.

I mean, I don't take, three minutes shower. I'm a three minute in and out, fine, got to go, things to do. 20 minutes in the shower with this water hitting me and tears hitting me. And I'm not sure if it's no tears or the water. And I'm thinking the whole world has changed. And I'm not really ready for this. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to begin.

I went to prison. I was picking up $54,000 the day before I went in, you know. Was I going to Myrtle Beach or the Bahamas this week or Vegas that week? You know, and here I am, I don't even have money for a sandwich if I walked out the door. And I didn't want to be, I wanted to go back to prison. Oh, absolutely. I know. I wanted to go back because I didn't even know how to walk across the street.

I didn't have to cross a street. I was like, and then the press followed me, I didn't want to, like, when the hand goes up to walk across the street, you stop, go, go, walk. I didn't want to break the rules. But not because I'd give up about walking across the street illegally. but these take a picture. Dowd breaking the rules already. I mean, this is... Anyway, so that's how I lived it, but...

I was a sergeant at the age of 27, which is very young there. And then within a year, because I started getting involved with other agencies, boarding up houses, businesses that were selling drugs out of them and making a real impact in community,

he promoted me to captain. I was top of the food chain, actually. Okay. At 28 years old, very young. During that time, my first undercover, I made some small buys. I actually would go out and make some small buys. And then before even the whole big drug undercovers that I would do,

we got a rash of large-scale burglaries that people were stealing cabotas, tractors, lawnmowers. And we ended up flipping with street terms for turning somebody into an informant or a snitch. We had a guy that we had a guy that we, had probably with about 30 to 50 felony charges of these thefts. And here it was an organization of a group of boilermakers, actually, guys, businessmen that actually had some money and they were hiring, you know, guys that were hooked on drugs to go out steal, they'd turn around and resell the stuff and make a bundle of money,

and they didn't need the money. So what happened was that guy then introduced me to the ringleader who lived outside the county who didn't know. And so I started running around stealing stuff with these guys. So when you say a boiler, they were running a boiler, they were selling, they had a phone, guys on the phone calling to sell the stolen goods. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And they had great jobs. They were businessmen. They were basically doing us on the side pocket extra cash. You can never have enough cash. No, I know. I know. Cash is king. I really know. I know. Everybody always says, you know, you were already making two, three hundred thousand dollars a year. And it's like,

well, you have you another hundred thousand? Well, then you spend that and you need to make more money. Yeah, but you don't know that when you're in it. No, no. And besides those, they probably felt like they were insulated. I mean, those are the guys doing the stealing. They did. No, you're right. You're right.

It's like the guy driving the getaway car is like, hey, these guys are robbing banks. How do you know? Because I'm driving the getaway car. So I'm not involved at all. Right. Right. Right. That makes sense.

So, all right. So you run around and you're stealing stuff with the guys? I was. I was one of them. I actually went by the name of Bert. Bert was my name. And I would go meet with these guys and go deliver the property. They would give us money.

But they're crackheads. Well, no. We were taking it. I went right to the businessman. I went to the top. And I was with these guys that were, you know, basically crackheads. And they were. So the informant introduces you to the head guys.

Correct. And I become one of them. You start selling the stuff for him, giving them the stuff. They're trying to sell it. Yep. I mean, is this stuff that's already like you guys already have like in the evidence room or something. No, I actually went out and stole stuff from places, like farm machinery place.

Yeah, I'd go out and do it with them and go out and with them and then go deliver it and get the money. Well, what about the farmer? We would go and actually sit down and have a one-on-one with the farmer. After? Listen. Yes. And then they would. My bad.

Yeah, and tell them how. And then they were really happy with us because we're protecting them. So eventually it had all come to an end. and they swooped in on all of us one night and I was actually arrested and taken in and booked at a county jail. And you go in the county jail with them through the whole thing?

Yeah, and Burt. Yep, Burt went in and then of course they slid. Do you see people you know? No, they slid me out of there later and got me out of there. But it made it look good. Right. So now these guys have no clue, really.

They took Burt. They're probably like they took Burt. They had no clue. They moved Burt. They had no clue until the date of court when I walk in. And they said, Bert. And he looks in Bert.

And I said, no. I'm Detective Captain Overmire. And then, you know what? Oh, Bert. Take the deal. What have you done? Take the deal. Take the deal.

They took the deal. What kind of deal? I don't even remember. Doesn't it seem like, I hear some of these things like, you know, they're like trying to get the guy to take like five years or something. It's like five years. That's nothing. Like, and these, I'm not doing five years. I said, fine, it's not what...

Not compared to what you did. You've been stealing. I've been stealing for six, for, not sit for two years, you know. People don't realize, like, you go on to, like, the fine, the prison sentence you can get for, like, going on to, like, a construction site and stealing, like, an earth mover or a bulldozer. So, like, it's massive. You get into tons of trouble for that. Oh, yeah. Well, that's tons of money.

Can you imagine the money they're making? I can remember when the copper thing, everybody was stripping copper thing. out of newly constructed all that and then catalytic converters people are going crazy over that stuff yeah yeah i have i actually know a guy that got caught he was stealing uh uh commercial equipment they were stealing it putting on the big rigs or putting on the rigs and then driving to several states over and then they would sell it anyway he did like five years for that you know yeah well this was back in like the 70s when you got no time at all oh wow like you probably got like 10 years he probably got like 10 years and got out in four or five years um but anyway yeah

Sorry, go ahead. Now you do Buck Rogers time, you know. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, it's all different now. Poor Colie. He doesn't know. So you were doing that and the guys take the deal and then what happens? Then I keep doing a lot of, you know, narcotics investigation.

End up getting into a situation where it starts out as a decent-sized ecstasy deal where this guy wants to flip, so I flipping, and he runs into a multiple kilo-cocaine operation. By accident. That wasn't even what he was doing. That we didn't think we were going to, we bumped into. So we worked a lot with the state agency, BCI, and I, who actually ended up busted me. And the DEA, so that guy then, he wants to cooperate. So we go in for a meeting one day with him and everybody, all the agents, we're going to do a,

a joint operation, and they said, well, we want you to introduce you to somebody. And they pointed one of the guys sitting there that they usually use for undercover. And he said, no, he looks like a cop. And he goes, they said, oh, he goes, well, who don't? And he points at me. And he says, I want that guy right there. And he pointed at me. And I'm like, you scream cop to me.

But go ahead. Well, I had my head shaved bold. I had a beard. I played the part pretty well. I was a lot heavier, too. Okay. So I partnered up with him. And ran around with him, did a lot of Western unions,

shipping money over to Mexico, making all kinds of phone calls, buys, even one of the biggest buys, 17 kilos of cocaine at one time. Okay. And we would rent a storage unit. The guy would roll in. We dropped the door and break the tire down.

Of course, you know, they patch it down and everything like that. And break the tire down, and you could get 17 keys out of a, attire okay and it was good cocaine still had the stamp on it coming straight from Mexico so when you buy the cocaine yeah I mean who where's that money come from that's got to be a chunk of money but what's the feds you know the the authorities they you know and what a lot of times they'll let some money go but other money um you'd wait so far you know a couple states away and oh bust them say they track they follow the money

So it doesn't look. Right, right. And you don't get. Just before it goes over the border, they grab. Yeah. I mean, you probably know as well as I do from your experiences, you win some, you lose some. Yeah. It's the cost of doing business.

Yeah. And so. Well, they're printing the money themselves anyway. So it's really awesome. Exactly. And but other than that, the dope boys, they got plenty of dope. Yeah. And they're going to lose some, but they're going to make a lot of money.

Yeah. So, and that's how we would do it. It was pretty simple. And I was pretty good at what I did. I was a great talker. I could, I had the gift of gab and I had no problem buying dope. Okay. How long did you do that?

About two and a half, three years worked in it. It was undercover operation. We did that. You know, I did that along with actually my detective work, too, as a normal detective. So I was jumping back and forth. We'd go out a lot in the middle of the night doing buys, you know. But you don't do this in your county, right? I did some in my county because these guys were coming out of state too.

They didn't know what I was. So you're not going to bump into them at Walmart. Correct. Correct. So that lasted up until, well, actually, it leads me to what all happened. But the sheriff who was elected then, he was very impressed with what I've done and where I was headed. And I was, you know, then I was in my 30s, early 30s. And he came to me one day and he's like, you know, you're doing all this stuff.

And you could be me someday. And, you know, he was in his 60s. And I said, well, you know, I might be interested in that, but, you know, you're going to be sure for a while. So probably a week after that talk, he dies of a heart attack. Oh. So I'm 34 years old. Well, he, like, kind of must have felt it was coming, right? To even have that conversation.

Well, I'm kind of wondering because he, why would he have that? It was kind of eerie and spooky. It was about a week prior And so And then there was rumblings He had talked about it You either run as a Republican or a Democrat In Sundusky County

And I was a Republican He had me involved with the Republican Party Because he had this idea And I would go to the events and stuff And then he passed away And I thought Uh oh what am I going to do now

You know And the Republican Central Committee came to me And they said You know Sheriff Gangward had mentioned Hey, we'd like Kyle to someday, you know, take over. Right. You know, but you're only 34 years old.

Right. What do you want to do? And I went then when I was still, I was married. I had two kids at the time. I had my son Dylan at the time, too. I had a daughter and a son. And it was a big move to even think about doing that because you could lose your job. Because it's an appointed position.

You get somebody else that gets mad at you. They're going to push you out of there. Right. So it came down between myself and a 30-year veteran. Okay. And in September of 2008, I ended up running an emergency appointment. It started out as an appointment to an election, and I won unanimously. They picked me over the 30-year veteran at 34 years of age.

Okay. And at that age... But that's to run. I was then, and then I had to run. Then you still have to run. And then nobody ran against me, which was not. Oh, okay. Yeah, which was good.

Yeah. Because I think what they saw was, oh my gosh, they appointed this guy 34. He must have something. Right. So it gave me some clout is what it did. Okay. But can't anybody could, like a regular citizen can run. No, no?

There are certain requirements in the state of Ohio and from, and they're very strict. And I had every one of them. Oh, okay. Everyone, even from a bachelor's degree to rank for so long, the sheriff was thinking what he wanted to do with me and line he lined me right up okay all right because i was a sergeant a captain and i had a and i had a college degree too on top of it so it worked out great so at 34 i was the youngest sheriff in the whole state of ohio how long had you been a deputy at this point well from 96 and that was 2008 not very long okay okay so not 96 to 99 that's about let's

So just over 10 years, right? You said 96 to 98, so 10, 12 years. That's not that long, 34 years old. Right. It's very unheard of, actually, to run you. But it's not like you don't know how things are running. Correct. Because I work in every division.

Right. I was going to say, because if you come in, like, you come in after a year or two, like, I'm still not sure how any of this is really working. Like, how many police officers were there? I had, um, I ran a jail. I had a, that was my thing. I had a jail. I had a jail, a detective bureau, a communication center. A civil office and a detective bureau.

I mean, I had a lot going on, man. Is that 50 people? Oh, no, it's over 100. And plus you have over 100 inmates, you know, and it's 24-7 operation. My budget was over $4 million. Right. And I had to figure out how to budget that. I had, and then with my deputies, I had two unions, and I had helped negotiate unions

every three years, and that was a pain in the ass. Right. Yeah. So everything's going good? Everything's going good. I'm married, two kids. The swearing in of it was huge. I mean, it was standing room only.

People came out of the woodwork to come see me get sworn in as a new sheriff. It's a big hype. There hadn't been a sheriff, even though the one passed away. He was a great man. I mean, he supported me a million percent. But when I came in, it was like, boom. I was on cloud nine. I'm not going to lie.

I mean, I started to get a big head, you know? I mean, I started get a big ego. I had things going on, you know, but during that time was 2008. All the foreclosures were coming in. The budget, I had a big budget crunch. I had to cut like 300,000 out of my budget, which killed me. Which is probably already strapped. It was.

It was, but I didn't want to have to lay off deputies. So I had to figure out and think outside the box, how I was going to figure things out. I mean, I even went as creative as I had my own inmate garden. I had my inmates raising their own vegetables, helping feed them. I even had my own chicken coop there, tell you the truth. I did some pretty unique things where people were writing articles about it. I had the first ever taxpayer hero award in the state of Ohio because I was saving money and rehabilitating inmates. and things were going really good.

I mean, really good. And then during that time, I was diagnosed with arthritis in 2010. I broke both of my ankles as a kid. And it was agonizing all the time. I get sick and tired. I would go on vacations with my wife and kids. And we'd go hike, and it would just kill me.

So I ended up going to a specialist, and they gave me 105 viking in my mom. month and so I started taking those and that was you know good for the pain and things were good for the first year too and but then came along what really screwed me up one night I just got home from vacation we were down here in Florida actually tell you truth in Fort Myers with my wife and children get back on a Sunday and get a phone call that there's a man with a loaded shotgun in a home. I'm going to kill his family.

And, of course, they're... In Ohio. Correct. Okay. Yeah. And I'm back. I'm back. And so they call a sheriff right away because it's out in the county and I have to

handle it. So immediately, I get my family home. I was with my family when I got to call. And I will never forget my daughter's like, this sounds bad, dad. I'm like, Michaela, I've dealt with this stuff before. This is easy. Proceed. Can't get him out of the house.

I got the SWAT team out there. He's, uh, he had just gotten out of prison not too long ago. He did a drive-by shooting and shouldn't even have a firearm under the influence. He's already in a shitload of trouble. Correct. Like he, and he doesn't want to go back to prison. No, no. Can't get him out of there.

So I'm like, we need to go and get him. Right. So even with myself, I went into. I'm trained. I know what I'm doing. If my men were going to go in, I'm going in with him. That was kind of like my rule of thumb. Right.

and throw a flash bag in, we get in. He pulls a shotgun on us and we kill him. Right. And that hit me pretty hard. And, of course, we didn't want to kill that guy, of course. And the family is upset with us. I'm upset. I'm like, man, you know, this is all on me now.

We didn't want to do that. You know, he pointed a shotgun. You know, of course, I had to. to put the two guys that were ahead of me that actually pulled the trigger, I went in with them, but I didn't have to pull the trigger, but I was right with them. Put them off on duty, you know, until we got things figured out. We even had to go through a grand jury to find out if it was a justified shooting or not.

It was a tough time. And I could never forget waking up that day the next morning because it went in the late hours because we were going to have a press conference in the media. I looked at myself in the mirror, man. I was like, I can't believe the shit's going on because the family. was just, they were mad at us. They protested twice up and down the State Street, holding up signs. Kyle Overmire, Brian's blood is on your hands.

I mean, nasty stuff. The media was after us. We had a newspaper, a local newspaper, just crucified us, especially me, any time they could get a chance. The guy did a drive-by shooting. He's in the house with a shotgun. He will not come out. right what what like what what else what were you supposed to do well back off let him slowly slip away

right you know or sleep it off no because you were going to still put him to danger so we had all those questions right you're asking matt and you know it got to the point where um we finally got justified in our shooting right and i took care of my guys i oh i got them help you know I got consulers and the stuff. I don't take care of myself. So, okay. I'm struggling with it. And then myself and the other deputies get a $20 million lawsuit slapped on us.

So we're facing $20 million next. This is from the family. Yes, federally. It was a federal lawsuit. And so that's going on. Who pays for your attorneys? Like this is through the county Okay

But if the 20 million They sued me personally too Right But the county still You thought you didn't have to go get your own lawyer No I didn't no I didn't Okay but if I would have found And I'll tell you

But if you lose It's on me It's on you. Correct And you know where am I going to get 20 mil Right So we're going through that And then

Ironically another Sunday We get a call And you know I'm still struggling with this and, you know, trying to be a father or a husband and the sheriff of a county, we get three kids that fall through the ice in the mouth of the river.

So I race out there, we get the boat out in that, we lose all three of the kids they drown in front of us. So what do I do? I get help for everybody else. I don't get help for Kyle. So between that and then my marriage is starting to struggle, the amount of Vicodin start to really climb. Right.

As time going on, that 105 would only last maybe two weeks. It'd be gone. And so I had to figure out how to take care of Kyle Overmeyer mentally. So, I mean, I didn't want to think I was an addict because the doctor was prescribing them. It wasn't like I was going on the street corner and saying, hey, you know, I need a pill. I need a pill. No, no, no. The doctor was given a trained physician who was educated.

I had a prescription. Yeah, exactly. So it's not a drug. So I got to the point where I had my jail doctor. I would manipulate him. I'd say, hey, I hurt my, I graduated percocets. They became my favorite thing. The little percocet, I loved them.

And then I would go from a different doctor, a couple different doctors, and everybody trusted me. I was the sheriff, you know? Right. Who would ever think that the sheriff would be in it? But it was interesting because I could get a doctor so easy that I would text them and they would text me back and say, go to my office. That script will be waiting. I didn't even have to go see them.

Right. I got to the point. So. Does your, at that point, did your state have the requirements that the doctors notify the state database that you, or they did? The Ors report. Yes. I'll talk, yeah, I'll tell you about the.

I was going to say that. How, I mean, how do you think that's going to catch up with you? Well, and I didn't think because I thought I was Teflon, man. I thought I was Teflan. I was the sheriff. I was Kyle Overmeyer. I mean, my ego got big and I would go. I would get mine from a specialist that I would go to the multiple doctors.

But shit, sometimes that would run out. So I had to start getting really creative. So we had this countywide take back stuff where the community would come and throw away all of pills. So we had like the hub there at the county because we were the main place and they could get rid of their stuff there and store it. So I took it upon myself as the sheriff because you know, I would come out with a program. We're looking for specifically per cassette 50s, you know. That's a good idea for that. I'll have to write that one now. We're paying pharmaceutical prices for anybody it turns that really would like one

If you could just have one. If you just drop off one. No, no, you're right. So I went to the point where I went around personally to the agencies and said, here, I'll pick him up. I'll dispose of them. He's just being a good guy. I'm being a great guy. Just people helping people.

Yeah. And I was really helping myself. I was like putting the kid that was putting his hand in the cookie jar. Yeah. And so I was getting high off that too. I had to. I mean, if not, I was going to get sick. I mean, I could tell.

And, yeah. I got so creative. I mean, and unfortunately, it, you know, as you well know, and when you're in,

you know, I went from fighting crime to being in a life of crime, so to speak. I even started stealing from my parents. My parents, you know, both of them went to ping,

you know, for pain management stuff. I went as far as I knew when my dad would pick up his prescription. So I would, dad, I'll go get it for you. I'm going to be a good son.

And you know how they staple? Yeah. I carried a stapler in my, uh, car. too I mean bending the state

exactly to make it look I would hey lining up the I was so bad I even did that I mean I mean and figure out

when my parents weren't home so I could go into their house and steal their pills I mean I was a real piece of work I mean lying cheating stealing

I mean like my daughter when she got her wisdom teeth pulled I'll I'll take care of the prescription.

I was going to say, Doc, you know what's real, which it really works well with her. Right. Perkinses are better than Vicodin. Burgessus. Yes. Those are really the crowd pleasers. Right. So, I mean, it just, yeah, I mean, I would never then would have said, I'm an addict.

Right. I was in total denial. No, I couldn't be the, I couldn't be. Who in the hell would ever thought the sheriff of the county? Especially me. I mean, I walked around with a Kool-Aid smile. Everybody thought I was on, I mean, and of course. And of course I did because I was high.

But, I mean, and it was interesting. I mean, I'd go for speak engagements, Matt. I mean, I'd have pills in my uniform pocket. I mean, from the day I, the moment I woke up, I was taking perkinset's until I went to bed. Right. So. And then, but then luckily you went to rehab and you kicked the habit. And now you're here talking to me, and that's, that's the whole story.

I didn't go to rehab. No, I know. I know. So, so what, so how many times did you, so during this whole course, are you being reelected? Like, you're still running? Yeah, yeah. You got reelected every so often. I got reelected for two terms, four years apiece.

Yeah, I was going. I was rolling. I was rolling strong. And, uh, and live in a life of a lie. Right. Yes. Um, yeah. So during that time, using, using, using, and then on February 3rd, 2015, I go to pick up one of my prescriptions for my Vicodin.

And I go, everybody knows me. I go to the same pharmacy. And I go up and, hey, I'm here to pick up my script. And she says, hey, Kyle, can I talk to you over the side real quick? And I'm like, yeah. So I'm thinking. This is a pharmacist? Yes.

And I know her. Leslie she's a great woman and she says I want to talk to you aside oh and I said we now I want to talk to you side so I'm thinking you know what somebody's probably about buying Sudafed and they're going and she's going to turn me on to some junkies you have cooking math right right and I'm like oh okay okay you know she says hey I got to call all those doctors you've been getting viking and perkinsets from I said huh now I played dumb and stupid but my you know but my my my everything Everything's down to my stomach. I'm like, holy shit.

So she's saying I have to call them. Correct. Okay. And notified. Because she looked it up and was notified. On what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah. The Orr's report to show I was getting it from multiple doctors.

Right. I had been red flagged. That's what they call it. And I'm like, oh. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, you're done. You can't. This is done.

So this scared me so much, Matt. I went home. I didn't tell anybody about this. I had one Vicodin left. And you know where that Viking went? What, I mean? Down the toilet. Okay.

I went cold turkey. And during that time when I was married to my first wife and my kids would go to school because she was a school teacher, my kids would go to school. I'd put my uniform on like I was going to work. And she'd go to school. The kids would go to school. I'd turn around because I manipulated my schedule being the boss. I'd take my vehicle.

and pull it in the garage and put it down, and I'd come sleep in the mornings to detox myself. Right. I was a mess. I was going to meeting sometimes and I'd be not because I was getting so sick because I didn't have the Percocets or the Vicodin anymore. Right. And I had to hide this.

And I was researching stuff so much on the computer like, how can I get through this and stuff? Even like sup. I mean, I was like desperate. But I stayed the course. I mean, I really stayed the course. How long did that take? Oh, my gosh.

I mean, up until the big spot, I was still struggling mentally with it. So, I mean, several months. I mean, to get that out of your system, they say the fog of that takes 18 months for the opiates to get out of your brain. And I believe that I can see that from what I went through. So that's 2015, and I'm coming up for reelection for the primary again. Well, Kyle, I'm pretty, you know, I'm still. out there being myself, I'm cocky, I'm doing my thing. Nobody not figuring anything out.

Well, wait a minute, what about the report? So it got red flagged. Like, has it been shifted to the DEA or anything? Nothing. No, no. Now, listen, not yet or nothing. So what happened was then I'm getting ready to run for re-election again. Well, I was a Twitter guy too.

And so I'm on Twitter. I go by a young sheriff. Right. I had fun. And I had rappers following me, porn stars. I was following porn. stars one of my favorite with Jenna Jamison and um she even reached out to me tell you truth because her father was a cop in the crazy so this gets thrown out in the

media what I'm running for that sheriff of the county follows porn stars oh my god my wife was just like what is wrong with you blah blah blah I'm like they're human too they're They're paying taxes. Her dad was law enforcement. Yes. So Jamerson, who? I didn't know. Yes.

And so I did. I said, I mean, I have a such a nice person. So I said, oh, I must have accepted or like, you know, followed them by mistake. They had articles about it trying to ruin me. Well, actually, people were coming up to me saying, hey. Yeah. I like you, man. You're cool.

I watch porn and all this stuff. And I'm like, okay. I like, I like that rapper. You know what I mean? Right. I was getting street credit out. But actually. Right.

So, I go into the... Probably not voters, but... I did. Listen to this. I win the primary. Right. 62% of the votes. Okay.

A landslide. I still got the newspaper article of it showing it on the landslide. They tried to crush me. And I'm like, well, I'd rather I'm trying to crush me with that than my dirty little secret. Yeah, yeah. So it's getting time and my marriage is rocky. But I, of course, I hide that because you want to be the All-American sheriff and family man and, you know, want nobody to know anything. I'm still struggling mentally.

I'm not going to lie. I mean, do I still, am I still thinking about Percocet's every damn day? Right. I mean, there's still, you know, like sugar plums dancing in my head, you know. And I hate to say it. They were. And, um, I can just see the, the, the, the, the, the, the TikTok now where it's, it's a picture of the guy puts little, little, little. Sugar plumb.

Go ahead. And I'm running then for the general. I get a phone call. You're a general election. Because then I have two more opponents coming. Okay. And that's coming up close to the fall. And I get a phone call from prosecutor.

The state prosecutor? The county prosecutor. He's like, hey, we need to talk. And I'm like, and I get along with you. Great. I mean, we're cool. Yeah. I'm like, so he's like,

I'm up my office, so. Oh, man. I'm like, what's up? Man, they're looking into you, dude. I'm like, why? Well, they're going to run this Orr's report on you. They said, yeah, I'm like, no, man, no. You know, I'm still in denial.

Yeah. I'm holding into my story. No, it's, I said, you know what? They're out to get me. Somebody wants my job bad. I said, they already tried the porn star thing. That didn't work. So they're going to try this now.

So I go with the flow. It's a deep state. Huh? It's the deep state. Yeah. So I'm going, I'm in denial. Shit ain't going to happen to me. I still think I'm Teflon.

And they put the dogs out. They started really combing and doing it. And I'm getting phone calls and they're investigating you, okay. And I then, August 23rd, 2016, comes, they were going to take it all to a grand jury. I didn't know what they had. I thought I had it in the bag. So we had our first day of our opening county fair,

the Syski County Fair, which is a big thing for anybody that's an elected official goes. I'm there for the ribbon cutting. I'm in my uniform. I'm shaking hands, kissing babies, you know, being the great sheriff I am. And I got myself an attorney, too, in case something happened. day goes through I understand nobody's come to talk to you like other than you getting the tip-offs

it's not like an investigator ever came to say oh they didn't want time oh they did and guess what okay they gave me an option and what they did they said if you can take a drug test we'll drop that well I did I took a drug test and passed it was after I got clean

and I was clean at that time when they started to sniff around and they didn't drop it I'm not gonna sit here You know the deal. I'm not going to sit here and listen to you say that the prosecutor would lie or not live up to their obligations. Right. I get it.

It's not in this government. You know the deal. Yeah. So. Like they don't ask, they don't do. They don't do anything. Nothing they're doing is to help you. Like, well, if you take a lie detector test, like, you're not trying to clear me.

Oh. Like if I, oh, so if I pass it, you'll drop everything? Yes, we will. because they're really just trying to hem you up. They threw that option at me too, and I said, no, I'm not. That's voodoo. Yeah. You know, and they, it wouldn't matter anyway.

It doesn't hold up in court. And it doesn't matter how it would you. It wouldn't matter anyway. If you passed it, that's all. Everybody thinks, will you? If I take it, I passed it. They said they'll drop it or it'll prove. No, it won't.

They'll just say you beat it. Right. You beat it somewhere. Right. They only say, take this so that you hem yourself up so they can use it to get a confession. You know, take a drug test so that he fails it so we can get a confession. Yeah, but what if he beats it? It doesn't matter.

Then you got clean. We're going to go forward. Like, no matter what, they're going forward with their theory, they're not trying to exclude you. Right. That's why we want you to talk to so we can exclude you. I agree. Yeah. Stop it.

Well. So, August 23rd, 2016, ribbon cutting. That night at 630, I get a phone call. You better turn yourself in. I said, what's up? They got a 43 count indictment on you. I don't know how many numbers you had. I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was. I mean, Donald Trump just got 34. I was going to say, yeah, I'm sure it was. There was tons of them. There was lots of them. You know, yeah, but you plead guilty and they say, look, if you plead guilty, we'll take these 16 and condense them to one and these four and condense them to one. And then it ends up being like, you know, still in my case, it was like 12. Yeah. Well, actually, we'll talk about that. It's interesting. Um, um, so. So,

So they locked me up. I went interned myself in. I locked, yeah, they locked me up. Here's the sheriff. In your county? They booked me there and then they took me to an adjacent county. What is the, what are this staff doing? They got to be walking around going like, they were.

Holy shit. They were like, oh, they felt uncomfortable because they really liked me. They respected me. I was a good boss. I was a good boss. Right. And I was treated my guys right. And so I go court hearing the next day.

They give me $150,000 bond. And I'm still holding true to it. I'm telling my family, this is bullshit, you know, this is, I'm not an addict. This is, you know, I wasn't doing this, blah, blah, blah. You know, I got arthritis. And, uh, I bond out. And this is the time of reelection. I keep rolling.

I keep rocking and rolling. Can you believe what my, and that's what I did. Nice. And they came out and they asked me what, what my common is. I said, I'm going to fight. Yeah. And I was ready. So I got out.

I continued to do debates. And I did great in debates. And people would bring stuff up and I knew how to sidestep it. I was a manipulator, you know? I mean, I was a drug addict. So I knew how to manipulate everything. I was con man. So the next thing I did was the parades.

I marched and I would walk those parades. And it was crazy, Matt. It was like something out of a movie. people were coming off their porches hugging me saying I'm praying for you you got my vote we're going to support you to the end I mean people were supporting me

they're imagine you're in you get picked up and like two days later you're in your jail cell and the guard comes by and says you won what? Sorry no no but it was it was crazy people were supporting me we were doing I had a crew that was helping me a team and doing, like, phone calls, like, who you'd vote for.

Yeah. My numbers were through the roof. So. This is like Donald Trump. Yeah. Like, indicting him is the biggest mistake you could have made. It didn't. It made me more popular.

It was crazy. So I'm doing all that. I'm still acting crazy. I got a girlfriend. Right. I got a girlfriend. And is you got a girlfriend at this time or you had I had prior I had one I had one I had one prior to this I had one I had one prior to this and I'm out of course I'm still out catting around like an idiot and I'm assuming the wife's not okay with this she don't know nothing about it okay okay did the girlfriend work at the no no no no no connection to it at all just like the waitress that you came across or something or you don't shit where you eat right okay note somebody that I knew from before worked at a different company and still doing my my thing thinking that I'm on top of the world and I'm going to beat this I'm going to beat this I I'm going to go out on a limb here I'm going to say I'm going to say things for not looking good well I mean there's turning points Matt I mean you know when we start getting the phone calls you know and it starts really and then there's the indictment and that a lot of people would have said things are not going well but but you know what I was I think my ego got the most no no no I'm

Maybe. No, that's not true. Maybe this much, Matt. Okay. My God. Don't say it's not so. Go ahead. Okay.

So what happened? So it's getting time. It's getting November. My son's going to be 13. And he wants a crossbow because he wants to go deer hunt. We had went through a hunter safety course together. So I went out and bought him a crossbow. And I get a phone call from my attorney.

and they say um he says hey did you buy a crossbow for your son for his birthday i said hell yeah i did he says you know you signed that paper of no dangerous weapon you're going to be getting a subpoena for oh my god i said for what and i said i don't even possess it right now he goes i don't care i said i took it to my father-in-laws he says i don't care He said they need to hear they're going to do an hearing with you and they want to They want to revoke your bond Oh, who is this prosecutor? This guy just totally it was a female and

I said revoke what? Come on. And he's like, no, they're gonna. So November 3rd was the hearing. I go to take my son to school. He says and I'll never forget this. He's like, Dad, am I going to see you? you after school i said dylan i got this i said watch me i got this dillin i see you after school so i go to the hearing and uh they put me through the ringer they had all kinds they had

followed me and everything else and um they had a good eye on me and i think you know of course i think somebody was telling all my moves who knows who it was but They ended up revoking my bond on November 3rd, 2016, put 250K on me, no 10%, you've got to have the cash. And I couldn't come up with 250K. I mean, I had a couple guys that could have put some stuff together. So they took me to a couple of county over jail. Of course, I went in there. I knew people.

I mean, they knew who I. They can't put you in general population. It was a general pop. They didn't think they would know me over there. But I did. I ended up, actually, I ended up breaking bread with the dude anyhow and made some ramen noodles. So, you know, so I'm pretty good at that stuff. So I'm there and I'm like, you know what?

It's time. So this is where I actually surrendered. This is my breaking point that I had to deal with my addiction. And the truth, if I was going to have any kind of relationship with my children and my parents, my mom stayed like, to this day. I talked to her on my way here. I mean, she was the ride or die. Yeah.

And I told my mom, and my mom knows there's addiction in our family. I broke the news to her, kind of told my dad, even though my dad and I just never totally saw eye to eye. He was proud of me for me and sheriff, but there was always just that, that wall between us,

you know what I mean, that could never be broken. And, but my mom was good. I never could admit to my wife then. at first and my children so I'm figuring this out

talking my attorney and so I strike a deal I strike a 12 count deal 12 count felonies right you just talked about yeah and he served over a decade in federal prison

for bank fraud and he still owes the government six million restitution but he's good for it He is the most interesting man in the world. I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel.

Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. So I began to sit down. I went to my first AA meeting in there. That was the only thing I could do anything for self-help. Right. And I'm like, I got to do something with myself. I got to go get some treatment. I'm still struggling mentally.

My ego's out of control. I was in denial, and, you know, this shit's got to stop if I'm going to, like, have a life and see my family. So I wrote a lot of the judge. I had, like, probably 30, 40 support letters from the community, from people that were very well-respected. And I go December 13th, 2016, they take me back. And the judge, I mean, the room was crowded with media. That was a high-profile case. Yeah.

They even had a live camera on my residence to see what was going on in my house live at Kyle Overmeyer's house. It was crazy. You know, a TV van just. And the judge says, what do you have to say for yourself? And I said, you know, I'm an addict. I need help and I'm sorry. You know, I love my children.

She told me I didn't love my children. She told me I was a narcissist and, you know what, basically. The judge was female? Yes. And I turned around to all the media. and I apologize to some everybody for you know everything I've done and I lied and manipulated she says you know what Mr. I'm going to give you the best treatment in the state of Ohio if you need treatment I'm sending

you to prison for four years yeah yeah because they'll help you there yeah and I thought holy shit what am I going to do now what did you think was going to happen what was your lawyer saying he didn't say anything no no I'm saying what did he say what did he say to expect he didn't really tell me he didn't really tell me he didn't really tell me he didn't really tell me. It was, I mean, at the end, it was, it was, it was, we kind of broke off and I didn't get any really good vibe or advice from him at the time. How long had the doctor shopping been going on? They went all the way back when I first started getting prescription. So is this two years, six months? They charged me all six years back. Six years. Every time I went, every time I went

to the doctor, every time they handed me a prescription, the paper. And then every time, I went and filled it, they triplicated all the charges. And they got me with theft in office because I had a fund that they said they, of course, they'll do this too. They got into my fund and it was an FOJ and charged me with all this about

because I used the credit card not enough miles away to use a hotel, which I didn't actually use the hotel. It was one of my workers, but I signed for it and all these other things. They charged me with that. I had to plead to that. I paid all the money back, 21,000

I paid. They got me for all this. They went back and they said I should have used it out of a different fund line and I used it out of this fund line. So they charged it for theft and office. I didn't physically steal money. But they said because you used it, they can charge you with theft and office.

You're making it sound like the justice system is unfair. Well, I think there's a little tilted scale sometimes. But and they charge me, they charge me with. not because in ethics being the sheriff you have to everything that you're like any kind of credit cards that your account I forgot to write down a credit card that I owed $150 on

and they dinged me for that too a personal credit card so I got 43 count in diamond I got to 12 four years and then off to solitary confinement for 30 days was my first 30 days was in the hole

okay so well wait let me let me backtrack i get to where i'm supposed to go for two days and i get on the phone with my then-wife and kids and they say my wife's crying my kids my kids are upset crying they're all the phone they said and you love another woman and i said what and they said your jail phone calls have been played you got a girlfriend so they had taken my jail phone calls and played them in the media to not only crush me but they buried me they tried to bury me they wanted me to break physically mentally everything you can think they they did and I know they did why why else would they put those phone calls look the guy's going to do four years he's lost I was just saying, why isn't losing your job and losing your job, having to pay the money back, getting sentenced to four years, why isn't that enough for this prosecutor?

Like, I don't understand what, what's the problem with the prosecutor? There was there animosity between the two of you? I never knew her before. I didn't know her. But it was just, I think that they thought I was pretty arrogant, which I could see that. Right. Was I an addict? Yes.

Did I do those acts? Yeah, I took responsibility for it. But that's how my wife, that and kids found out. And from that point, it was tough. I didn't talk to them for like 30 days because you're in the hole. I didn't get any phone calls. Right. And it came at Christmas time, which is unfortunate.

Bro. You ever do, you ever do whole time? Fuck, yeah. Okay. You know what to do. I came out on the newspaper that I was bribing a that I was bribing a pod bribed a politician and that I was talking to the FBI about it so I saw on the newspaper at the medium where they're stabbing each other snitch front page not good it's not good I did I only did like 45 days

yeah you got me by 15 I did like 30 and then but I'd already been acclimated you came off the street and then I went right to the hole right I'd been locked up a year or two about about two three years before that so I was already yeah so you so mentally I'm already okay with hanging out by myself for 45 days and reading books as opposed to coming off the street like the the shock to your ego that that has to be is crushing you know like I would see guys that came in that were multi-millionaires for instance come into a jail and they're the they take it harder than the guy who lives in the project who's been in and out of jail all the time or some guy who's been it's much much harder on these guys because they can't believe that the guards are talking to them like

this. They can't believe that they're eating slop with these people that that they wouldn't, they couldn't get through the gate at their, you know, and their gated community, you know, so they're just like in shock. Yeah, yeah. It was, it was interesting. And, but, you know, you know, and you know, the only time you know when it's, it's time to eat, you hear the concrete, the wheel on the concrete, you know, that's it. There's no, there's no clock, no nothing. No, there's no, there's no, there's no, uh, there's no, uh, there's no, I get see Apple Watch is in prison. I'm here to tell you. Well, yeah, but I'm saying you're locked up in that little room. You don't know dark, it's, well, you kind of, you know, when it's light. Correct, but barely. Barely. Yeah, I was going to say, depends on where the building is, how much light hits that window that you can't see through. Um, yeah, we, I used to say that, like, I knew the day had gone by when it was like, you know, it, you just count the meals. Right. And that, and that, and that's, and that's, that's, that's how I went by. And during that time, I, I laid, I laid, I laid, and, I laid. I laid. I, I. I. I. I. I. I there you know of course it my life was taken from me my children i mean that's all that mattered to me i mean really i mean i had to get it through my thick skull in there what the hell was i going to do

with myself and i'm like i'm not going to be a better criminal right am i going to get my shit straight because i got four years to do well you're not a very good criminal because you know you knew the saw you know the report was being made yeah but i didn't think i you know i didn't think it was going to catch up with that that's not a good criminal like you so so that's so that That's why I'm not a criminal today. Right. I was going to say that's, yeah. So, yeah, so I did my time and then I get out and, you know, of course, like any other

person would do, you know, I apologize to, you know, the first phone call was to my wife then and kids and, you know, it was going to be over with because, you know, I cheated on her. know I cheated infidelity and and I didn't blame her you know she's a great woman she's a great mother and you know I did wrong so of course the divorce process was started while I was in prison I got my divorce papers while I was in prison right um you know how I told my son I'll see you afterwards mm-hmm like my daughter yeah no not for four years really no they didn't want to see me in that capacity and you know what I don't blame them mad who wants to to see their father like that.

Yeah. And so I talk to him every day. And I built that relationship every day. Talk to my mom, ride or die. No more girlfriend. That broke off. I had to because if you start anything from a bad position, it's only going to get worse. Right.

So why continue that? Yeah. So that broke off. And I started working on Kyle Overmine. Every day, I journaled. The first day, of course, I jumped off the bus. Everybody knew I was coming. Everybody, you know, in there, everybody.

Yeah, yeah. It's like they got their own phones. Hey, Kyle Overmeyer's coming. Mac, you know, Matt Cox is coming. So they were like, hey, come here, man. I know what's your, what's up, man? Hey, I want to be your friend and that. And I'm like what?

And he's like, hey, you want your sub-attacks? I heard you like perks, you know? What a dick. Yeah, I'm like, it was a gang member. I still today, remember, I looked him up the other day. He's still in there doing life for murdering his girlfriend. He'll never get out. And I said, no, I'm cool, man.

And that's probably would have been my breaking point. That would have been my breaking point. I came in. They sent me to protective custody at first. I met some good guys in there. I started to learn the ropes, who the storm man was. I'm sure you knew what a storm man was. you know um got acquainted with them got you know everybody i knew the weed man the weed man ended up

being the barber who i got really close with but i didn't you know i didn't do any drugs but he had been in there for um 25 years for murder but he taught me a lot before he left actually he was in the the riots of um ohio had riots in 93 and he was in the riots and so he taught me a lot and uh I started to understand how to move while I was in there in prison and how to be an inmate. So, okay, you're, you're a drug guy who's locked up with murderers. Like how, I mean, that. Yeah, it's interesting because it continued. Like, I was, I was going to say, you would think that that would be, a lot of times they'll, they'll move you into like a, you know, where they kind of, they kind of group you into different people.

And they ship you off to a different prison that's like, hey, this is really for this guy. or those guys had been there so long they'd worked their way down and they knew they just weren't any trouble. Well, that was in protective custody because there were some of them at first. So I was in there for a few months and then in protective custody,

I don't know if you know anything about it. It's controlled movement. Yeah. And you know from doing your time you want to be able to move. You want to be able to live. Yeah, yeah. The control movement suck.

Yeah, it sucked. So I signed up to sign out. And they were like, That's, well, that could be a, I could go bad quick. Dude, did you really? And they like, and the warden was cool. He was like, do you really want to? I said, I want to do it.

He goes, if you do this, you can't ever come back. I said, that's cool. I said, I'm good with that. How long were you locked up before you did that? Oh, I can't remember. It was like, I don't know, six, eight months, but I mean, I had four years to do. So I get, I went to, I went from protective custody general, but, yeah, I got, I got tried by somebody. it was funny

I mean it was a gang member and not any gang members that I got along with but I mean he kicked coming in and coming in the day room you know how they'll come in the day room he car barking and he called me on a bad day he wanted to bark at me and call me out

I said let's go and so of course going with cell I have my my bunkey six five for me is that what you guys called it six five lookout

that must be Ohio talk But anyhow, I let him go on first, of course, bang, bang, bang, took care of him. And I got respect after that. So there was no issue. How many people are in this prison? Ooh. I mean, you know, there's several hundred in there. I mean, because there's the floors.

And you know what's interesting in general pop? I continue to be in there with people for murder and stuff. Actually, one of them that was in there, he had 11 bodies in one day. He was called the Easter Bunny Killer. Look him up. He just died. His name is Rupert. He's got an interesting story in Ohio.

He was in there for him. He lived around the corner from me. He sat and read the wall seat journal all the time. Was it a mass shooting? He killed his whole family. With what? A gun? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I was on Easter. So they called him Easter Bunny Killer. He was in there with me. That's clever. Yes, isn't that interesting? So, yeah, I lived, one of my bunkeys was a gang member.

He shot tattoos. And actually, my first father's day when I was in there, when he did, I had him shoot my kids' names on him in honor of them. Yeah, I had to bring home, I know, maybe you did. A momento? Yes, yeah, souvenirs. So I got those, and he would have the, he did great work. He was in a gang, and we'd always hide that tattoo gun in the, the wall and you know nobody'd ever find it and uh so i think i paid him like i don't know like

20 ramen noodles for it for about two tattoos i got a great deal you know so i brought that home um my my my then my workout partner like my first workout partner in there he was uh a blood that was a muslim too and i'm christian you know and um i got intrigued by his religion so i'm like look you're praying all the time before we go work out and you got a rug and everything seems like a lot of work yeah so i'm like i want to you got you got an extra kran he's like why i go i want to read that thing i want to know what your religion's about so i can understand he's like sure so he gives me a kran well comes up march 22nd and it's ramadan right so what do i do i fasted for 30 days with him too i did ramadan i wanted the full effect to understand his religion and respect it and not get

so close-minded while I was in prison about people. Right. So I could understand every culture. So I started to experience that, worked out a lot. There was only a couple programs in there that you could do for anything for, like, drug rehab, which were everybody that was in that, they would drug test you every week. And guess who was the only one that never come up positive? Me. Right.

So I spent my time doing that. So the judge was right. excuse me, there's a lot of, there's programming. Yeah, even though I was seeing people smoking crack and shooting hair, and it didn't matter, you know. And so, I mean, I tried to experience and educate like you did yourself. I went back to college again while I was in there. I could, with a community college.

It was for actually substance abuse and addiction, which now I just finished it up. At home, I'll have my CDCA, which is a chemical dependency consulence. where I can be a licensed therapist with my bachelor's degree. So I figured I'm going to spend my time wisely while I was in there. And I got a free education. Right. Then they had, which is an interesting story while I was in there, Black History Month. So they had an essay contest.

So guess who wrote an essay? Okay. Yeah. So I wrote an essay. You like this story? What was the essay? The essay was, I wrote a essay. about Martin Luther King while he was in jail in Alabama.

So I get a knock at my door. He was also a Republican. He was. He was. And he was investigated by the FBI, too. Did you know that? Yes. Yes.

So I wrote that and I get a knock on my door. And the woman comes and she's like, I'm looking for Overmeyer 6,9, 2, 183. And I'm like, that's me. And she's like, no, God, I must have the wrong room. And I'm like, no, that's me. And she's like, you're white. And I'm like Still allowed to enter the contest

Yep So I got a free chicken dinner out of it Nice And she was like Chicken dinner That's just wrong I know Fried chicken

Fried chicken too So wrong And it's kind of symbolic It was Lee's famous recipe And I'll talk about that next In the story So And I'm about trying to advertise

For him But great chicken So I'm gonna give a sponsor So Anyhow She apologized She's like hey I'm sorry

I shouldn't have been like that It'd be judgmental So end up doing that, but then I end up, ironically, back with an old college friend. Right. And this is the guy you worked out with? He was the next one because then the other one shipped off to another prison. Because the other guy shipped off to another prison.

So I ended up in college, University of Toledo, when I was in a bodybuilding in that. I had a friend there, his name's Greg, and I end up back with him. I had met when he was 19 years old. He was doing 10 years for manufacturing steroids. So ironically, we end up back together and general population together, and we're a workout partners, which ended up being good because we're good support system for each other, we're pretty sound mind, and we pretty much have the same idea. We're going to get the hell out of here, and we're never coming back.

Right. So Greg and I end up back and forth together. And then also during that time, somebody got a hold of me on J.Pay, which is the email system, a girl. And then I started seeing some other girl, which. While you're in prison? Correct. Yes. Of course, you get lonely, you know?

Yeah. So I end up with striking a relationship with another hometown girl, you know, going through a divorce, thinking that's going to be the one because you're thinking that because. You're locked up and that's all there is. Yeah. Well, you're in a desperate situation. Just anybody that pays attention to you is like they become all-consuming. Because you're connected to the outside world.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're always thinking about what's going on in the outside world. But then most of the time you're trying to pretend like you are in the outside world. You know what I'm saying? Right. Because, you know, you did time. You get it. You do think about what the hell is going on out there while I'm in here.

But you've got to shut that shit out. So I got involved with her for a while. Then when I get out, I stay with her for a short time. That falls through, boots me out. I'm homeless. Right. I get out April 6th, 2020 was my official date, and I'm on parole. I never forget going by this dollar store.

I'll never forget this. Calling my parole officer. I got six bags of old clothes going, I'm homeless and I know I need a residence what do I and she's like get me something because I don't want to send you back you know right and she was really good with me so they didn't send you to a halfway house oh I did do the halfway house for a short time not long at the end and then that's where I ended up with her oh okay and then then I ended up homeless yeah the halfway house was a mess too yeah that's just a joke yeah yeah yeah it's bad it's I would I would have

rather done, if I didn't need the money to save money in the halfway house. I'd rather done my time. I'd rather done it. Yeah, yeah. You might as well just be locked up. It's, it's, it's a mess. So I don't know where I'm going to go, but then there were these two women that actually were dating in that. And I had known, um, the woman, her and her girlfriend would send me cards in there. They were older women. And they really supported me after I went away. And I was on one of the, um, one of the community college boards. I was a one of the board. I was a one of the board directors and I got to know her she worked in the library and she became very fond of me and I was always good to her and um I knew she had a couple rental properties and and I'm like maybe she'd

let me just flop in one I call her I'll never forget calling her when I got my six garbage bags and she's like I don't have anything but I got a spare bedroom with an air mattress you can flop on it so right it was a place to flop so I flop there I call my parole officer she's like okay I can cover you at least you got an address

so I got an ankle monitor on two they had me on an ankle monitor too when I got out one of those big clunky yes yeah yes so I go there I flop there and I need a job so who the hell is going to hire the disgrace sheriff

in his own county so I had a friend who owned two least famous recipe chicken places and that's how ironic that was what you got in prison is right so I get a hold of Larry

and Larry is a super good guy he's the most outside the box thinker you'll ever meet he'll take the shirt off the back for you so I call Larry I says Larry I need a job man and he says 950 an hour you can start frying chicken I said, I'm there.

So I go, I'm back in my hometown, where I used to go with my deputies to eat chicken. So I'm in there frying chicken, you know, doing my thing, a lot of people coming in and out, and people start taking pictures of me. People that I used to work with in the community. They start putting them out on Facebook, making jokes out of me. I mean, really, it was kind of disgusting. and they wanted to crush me. Right.

They did the wrong thing. Yeah, I was going to say that's, like, if you think that you're going to say something or take a picture of me and humiliate me, I've already been to prison. Like, this is nothing. You think I can't take some shit. I've been talked to like I was a dog.

Yeah, right. I was a number. Right. Like, you posted your picture and made your comment? Like, good for you, bro. I mean, and so they even did that. to me and one thing I forgot to talk about when I was in prison I had a lieutenant that had a hard on for me in prison too because who I was I don't know if you guys had the

same rules you had to keep all your vitamins in the same bottle that you purchased them in yeah well I mean that's yeah it was contraband well I had a few vitamins that were mixed into another one they did a shell cell shake down guess what I got charged with a contraband ticket and the next day guess what I call home to talk to my kids right and my they mailed at home listen even worse kids said we just read the newspaper you're back using drugs again i said what it's gone back i said right no what are you talking about you got called with pills and they think their prescription i said listen and and and and i mean i took everything for them to believe me and finally i'm like i went to the warden's dog i'm like look

this is this is wrong so they what they did they went and took the head the prison nurse and they compared them because i got them off commissary right well finally and it had like and i'm like look this has ruined things with my kids i've been staying clean look what i've put my family through right they did that and i'm sure it was him he leaked that they leaked that ticket yeah yeah and they had i mean there wasn't probably a month that went by while i was in for four years that there wasn't an article about me they still continued those articles but I had it took forever for them to understand my kids that I was clean right I mean they tried to wreck me and then I go out now back to working you know frying chicken

and these people are still trying to crush me right and I'm like okay you better have more than that to get me yeah so I was still flopping a um the woman's house and her name James Deb, great woman, love her to that. She's like my second mom. And she wanted me to stay forever. She's like, you can stay here forever. I love your company. You know, I bring your breakfast home.

I bring your chicken home. I was good to her, you know? Right. You know what? If you're going to let me live there for free and you gave me a place to lay my head, okay. So I was like, it came to a point where I'm like, look, I got to do something. I got to put some money together and get out and try to get back on my feet. And during that time,

to cope with my addiction, I was going to a lot of N.A. meetings, too, Narcotics Anonymous. So I'm going to a lot of meetings. People knew who I was. They embraced me. Of course, it was in Arquite's Anonymous. And I ended up meeting a guy that was running a facility up in Sudduski, Ohio. And he says, hey, you know, why don't you stop over tomorrow?

And, you know, maybe we could work out something for a job for you. You know, I was making $9.50 an hour frying chicken. Yeah, yeah. And I said, well, I got to get approved. I said because I got an ankle monitor and, you know, I got to get over there. And so I did. And he gave me an opportunity to work midnight shift looking over the people in the facility kind of babysitting, you know, for 1150 an hour to get a better job. So it's time when all I got enough money to scrape together.

And guess where I got an apartment at? In the hood where I used to kick doors in. That's all I could afford. Right. So I started living in the hood. Okay. Yeah. I stayed, I listen, I stayed in the spare room for 18 months before I could find you save up enough to get an apartment. Yeah. So I was there. I didn't, I, I left frying chicken. They celebrated the day. They thought they were proud of me.

I mean, really, they were, they got me balloons and teddy bear. I still got the picture of it, you know. Right. Yeah. I had long hair. a lot heavier. I mean, I looked like a different person. And I went from there, working over there. And then I started really coming out talking about my shit. And I publicized it. And I think a lot of people wanted me to like run in shame and I owned it instead of renting it. Yeah. That's a mistake to hide. Right. And I'm sure the newspaper that was running all those stories up, but they did a big article on you and about when I, yes. Did they? They did. They did.

A decent one? A decent one. Oh, okay. I was going to say, I thought you were going to be like, oh, we're not interested in that. No, after time went on, because I started sharing my store on Facebook. Right. And I started helping people. People were reaching out to me.

I was getting them in the drug treatment. I was working up at this place. And a couple newspapers reached out, and they wanted to. I even got a nice letter from a U.S. senator actually sent me, you know, saying, hey, I see what you're doing with yourself. I was shocked, you know. And then, you know, I was divorced. I was building the relationship back up with my kids, which was going pretty good.

And dating a few other couple girls here and there. And then from April of 2020, then April 22nd in 2020, my world changed. I met Jennifer. And she reached out to me because of my story. And because of a mutual friend, we started dating and six weeks later, we got married. I know crazy. That's how long. So how long ago was that?

How long have you been married? A little over two years now. Nice. And so I was going to live in Fremont and commute down to Columbus, Ohio, until I could find something. Six days after we got married, I got a phone call when I'm eating pizza. Some guy who owned a treatment center saw me on Facebook. offered me a job in Columbus working in business development. So I went from 11-50 an hour frame or working in a treatment center. Right. They actually having a decent job. It was called the

Montgomery Corrections facility. It's kind of like a county prison. I worked there until this incident happened pretty much. I think it was around July of June or July of 2014. I forget the exact date. So about six years. Mm-hmm. And I was actually even after, this happened, I was still employed there technically until the end of 2015. That's when I actually left the position. I decided to no longer be a part of that sheriff's office. And so, yeah, it was about six years. I was on the books as being employed with them. And they knew you were in the reserves. Oh, yes. At the time, I was in the National Guard when I was hired. So at that point, I'd been in the military for almost eight years.

to what is the so if you have to go you're called up or is that what they call it called? Called up we have you can get called up but we also have a scheduled

calendar of events like when we have our monthly battle assemblies or drills we get a calendar it's pre-scheduled right those they can't do it like they know you have to leave in October

yes like I'm leaving in October and the law says you have to allow me to leave and allow me to come back and I can't lose my job as a result of that. Correct. Okay. Yeah, that's like a federal law.

There's lots of, there's lots of stipulations in the federal law for that. So, yeah, they knew I was hired. During the interview process, they were very aware. In fact, they actually, during the interview process, I remember when I was doing my board interview, they even reminded me, oh, yeah, we have a military leave as part of our benefits package for you to be able to take leave and still get paid. Oh, okay. Like, they were encouraging me to use the military leave they provided, so.

All right. Okay. So, so what was, what was it that happened that started, like, the lawsuit and the whole retaliation and the whole thing? Like, it was just, yeah, I, it had been, um, the supervisor that started this whole thing. I don't know, it was more than one person, but I don't know what their problem with me was. I mean, I came to work. I did my job.

I never made it a point to get on anyone's bad side, but you didn't have like a long-running feud with anybody, any incidences, nothing just. No, I mean, I, but what happened was in, I think it was in 2014, there was a government shutdown. It was when we first had started having those sequestrations with the budget issues in the federal government. I'm not sure if you remember that. Yeah. Well, when this was happening, I was supposed to go. on one of my schedule weekends. I had the orders. I had everything in hand. It was a standard thing. I'd already been approved for the time off. So we go to show up. My supervisor in the military says, well, because the government's shut down, we're not actually going into the

armory, but you still have orders. So make sure you're available in case we get called up because nobody knew exactly what was happening. What was happening? So I did just that. And this wasn't the first time in my military career where something like this had happened. So again, to me, this was just a standard run-of-the-mill type situation. So I said, cool. I stayed at home, waited for them to call, nobody called. The next day, we went into drill. Everything went according to plan. And several months later, we got updated drill calendars because they had changed one of the weekend days. And the previous day, they had adjusted that weekend to reflect that we had only come in two days instead of three. So I turned the updated calendar in, updated my future military dates, and

my lieutenant, the individual who started this whole thing, she calls me into her office and says, can you explain this? And I explained the situation. And she said, well, if you didn't actually go in to work that day, I need you to change that day from a military day to a vacation day. I'm like, but I had orders for that day. And she said, it doesn't matter. I need you to change it. She then called me back again the next day in front of my sergeant and told me the same thing. So I was a little confused about that. I went back to my military unit and explained to them what was going on. And they're like, they said, yeah, you had orders. That was an authorized military day. But if that is your civilian employer's policy, you should follow that because you don't want to

get in trouble at work. Right. So then I went to talk to my union representative. Explain the situation to him. He said, yeah, if you had orders for that day at that time, you're fine. But again, if your lieutenant is ordering you to do it, you need to go ahead and do it because if you don't, she can write you up for insubordination. He's been known to cure insecurity just with his laugh. His organ donation card lists his charisma His smile is so contagious Vaccines have been created for it He is the most interesting man in the world

I don't typically commit crime But when I do It's bank fraud Stay greedy my friends Support the channel Join Matthew Cox's Patreon So I went in My next workday did exactly what she said

withdrew the military leave from several months before, put it in as a vacation day. Then she denied that leave request that she told me to make. She denied the vacation day. Yeah, that she told me to put in. I then found out about a week later from my military command that I was being investigated by our sheriff's office integrity division for criminal misconduct of some sort of,

of some sort. So I was like, wow. I mean, I hate to say it, but coming from her, I wasn't surprised. She's done this, she'd done this to other people within the sheriff's office before. So I contacted the union again. I said, hey, what's going on? I did what I was told. They're like, yeah, we're not too happy about it either.

But if you had orders, the detectives will do their investigation. Everything will be fine. and if you'll be clear to any wrongdoing. I said, okay, cool. So several months went on. I went to work as normal. Everything seemed to be fairly normal. Everyone knew this investigation was going on.

And one of the detectives called me to come in for questioning. I called my union lawyer said, hey, I'm being called in for questioning. What should I do? He said, yeah, just call him back and tell them all your orders are on file. and there's no need for you to go into questioning because if he finds the orders you'll be fine. So I said, okay, I called the detective back, said,

hey, my orders are on file with the watch commander's office. All you need to do is go find him. If you can't find him, call me, and I'll fax them or email them or I can even bring him to your office. We worked in the same building. So I hung up the phone. What did he say?

Did he say, no, that you're coming in? he just said okay he just said okay fine um he didn't make a big stink of it he's like okay fine i was like to that nature we hung up and um from what the lawyer told me if they were going to take action like that should have been the end of the investigation like they were either going to come arrest you like that day or they were going to go find the orders and this whole thing should have been closed come arrest you for for for what like what would that be whatever they were wouldn't it just be you're fired no it's not necessary no like i said this was not an administrative investigation. They're saying it's fraud. Yeah, they were trying to say I committed

fraud somehow. But anyway, so yeah, the rest of those next couple days, I was kind of looking around waiting to see if they were going to actually come pick me up for something. They never did. About a month later, I got orders to go on a 90-day training mission. And I came in, same thing, put the orders in, gave them to my watch commander. And this was on like a Thursday afternoon. taking the Friday off. I was already off that weekend, I think. I was taking the Friday off just to have some extra time with my family and friends. I was scheduled to fly out on Monday morning. That Friday afternoon, I'm sitting in my living room in my house in Nassau County. And I get a loud knock on the garage door of my house, not the front door, the garage door. Like, we walk in the

garage. So they walked into the garage. They walked in the garage. I opened that door and there's four guys standing there in, like, flak vests and, you know, wearing the full duty gear and all that. I'm like, can I help you? Right. And they're like, are you Ian Murray? I said, yeah. And they're like corrections officer Murray. I said, yeah.

One of them grabs me, cuffs me and says, we have a warrant for your arrest. I thought it was a joke at first. Like, I thought some of my buddies at work were just playing a going away prank. Right. And, yeah, it was not a joke. took me um they came into my house handcuffed me some of them were walking around my house i don't know what they were doing in my house but one of them went and used the bathroom and stuff and they took me down to their um their precinct or wherever it was and started questioning me

is this the sheriff's department the same department that you work for same department i work for um that same detective who called me um he eventually came in the room and um they started asking me all these questions and it wasn't just about this one day um they started asking me questions about all these other days i was on military leave and i asked them well what did my orders say and it was pretty clear at that point they never even went and looked for those orders right so i was like wow well um then they started making these excuses well if you just been more cooperative with us and this and that trying to turn it on me somehow i'm like i'm thinking and myself you know this is your job right i mean i don't understand what i really more i needed to do

here so they took me to the jail um i was booked fingerprinted photographed like right i went through the standard booking process uh one of my colleagues who was working said hey um it's all over the news and um they tipped off the news that they arrested one of their own and were yeah and they completely lied to the media they said that i didn't have orders when i did uh When I saw, it made page two of the Florida Times Union. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that newspaper. But yeah, it made the, not the front page, but the second page of the newspaper. It was on the radio, drive time.

It was on the Channel 4 News, all the local news outlets aired it. And my military command, actually, that's how they found out this had happened. Like, I hadn't even been able to call them yet. Right. They called me and said, hey, what's going on? And I told them, because they knew I was under this investigation. And they're like, how did this happen? I'm like, I don't know.

So, anyway, the following Monday, I found out that weekend I couldn't go on my training because my clearance was being suspended because I'd just been falsely arrested for committing felony. They were trying to charge me with official misconduct and grant theft, arguing that the amount of leave time that I allegedly had mistaken was over a certain amount of money. Right. So I couldn't go. on my training. The amount that you had orders for that they're allowed that they have to pay you that

they yeah, yeah. Yeah. They're now saying there were no orders when in fact there were orders. There were orders. And in fact, the following Monday, I called that same union lawyer who had told me this whole time I had done nothing wrong. Right. All of a sudden now, oh, well, I can get you a plea deal where you can, we might be able to save your pension if you're vested. I'm like, but you told me I didn't do anything. He's like, well, if they got a judge to sign a warrant, you must be guilty. Oh, what an idiot. Yeah. So it was pretty clear at that point who he was really working for. You could get a judge to sign a warrant for anything. I know. I trust me. And so fortunately, my family, my stepfather knew, knows a very good, well-established attorney in Jacksonville.

We went and saw him on Monday. And yeah, of course, he immediately said, yeah, this whole thing is unbelievable. Like, yeah, I'm, so I hired him. Within a week of me hiring this real attorney, this non-union attorney, I think the detectives did more investigating that week after the arrest and they did the whole four months prior. Right. They went to my military unit, tried to question them. And at no point prior to this arrest did they go to my army unit, go to anybody in my command to talk to them about what I was doing on my military duty days.

Right. So I don't even really know what they did during their investigation. Well, you know, I had this explained to me by my attorney one time. And he had said that the way the state works, he said the state law enforcement, they don't have the budgets to do much investigation. So what they typically do is they arrest you and get you scared and then hope that you'll plead guilty.

And if you don't plead guilty, then they do an investigation. But they do a very cursory investigation initially. The feds, like when the FBI shows up, you're done. they've done all the investigation they've got everything you're the last piece of the puzzle it's like okay we know we can arrest this guy we know are we've investigated we know he's guilty we know we can try him we know we can convict him go arrest him where it's the exact opposite with the state so i i totally understand what you're saying that's that makes perfect sense yeah and the

sad thing is i mean they um from what i was told later on like they have done this to so many people and gotten away with it because they can't afford to hire a lawyer or they get them so scared they'll take a plea deal or something and plea to a lesser charge. And I wasn't about to do that because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong. If you have you done something wrong, then when they arrest you, you are scared because you think they know everything. So typically you say, look, I'll take a plea deal. And they okay, now tell us in your words what happened. But the truth is, they don't have a clue what happened. So you're just telling them what happened. Yeah, they were. And that's the thing. Like I told them what I'd already told them once before. Right. And that wasn't going to

change. No, it wasn't going to change. They were expecting me to change my story. And, admit guilt is something, and I didn't do that. But yeah, they went to my army unit, tried to question my full-time staff. My full-time staff, most of them were like, oh, yeah, no, we're not talking to you guys. You never came to speak to us prior to this. And we're not going to help you with this at this point. So then they came back with subpoenas, started making threats towards my full-time staff, telling them that they would be taken to jail if they didn't cooperate.

Yeah, they got really nasty and aggressive. I think at this point they'd realized they'd made a pretty. pretty bad mistake. All right. So now it's, um, now it's kind of like we got to, we got to make sure that this looks like it looks at least,

at least it looks like some, like he's done something wrong. We need to put somebody on the stand. We need somebody to say some, start saying some negative things about him, that sort of thing. Like they have to start building a case at this point. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Because they'd like I said, they had gone to the media and told them he didn't have orders. He did this. Right. When in fact I hadn't done it.

And I think they realized from that point that, like, we have a problem. We have a problem. Yeah. So, yeah, this went on. The only person I think they actually, to my knowledge, they actually interviewed was my squad leader, my first line leader. And he pretty much confirmed everything like, yeah, he had orders for that day. We were in kind of a limbo period.

But when you have orders from the military, that is your priority. You are supposed to be made available to the military. And so other than that, I don't know who else they interviewed, if anybody. There were other days where I was at MEPs because I was changing from the Guard of the Reserve. again I turned in those orders to get the time off to go to MEPs if they had actually done made the trip over to records and gotten those orders that I had already submitted they would have known that but yeah like I said within 48 hours of my arrest we were able to furnish all these orders that they had already had at their fingertips right so

it's pretty obvious they didn't even do the basic functions of an investigation at least from what I can tell right so it went on for about almost two months I was on administratively without pay. Fortunately, my army unit was very helpful. They were able to coordinate with some other organizations, get me some administrative order days to help me with money. So I ended up having to sell my car. My ex-wife and I, we had to sacrifice a lot of things out of our budget,

things like that. She had to pick up a lot of extra overtime. She had to cover health care costs and stuff. So fortunately, I mean, I try to be financial responsible. I did have some money and savings. We were able to, like, not lose anything of a necessity. You know, we were able to keep up with the house and the bills and everything.

Some members of my family helped me out a little bit here and there when they could. How long did this go on? Well, the post-arrest investigation went on for a couple months. Finally, the state attorney said, I can't charge this guy. And he ended up dropping it from what I understand he didn't even do the charging paperwork for it like that's how weak it was to begin with right So yeah I was cleared of the um in fact um another interesting thing is when my clearance as I mentioned earlier got flagged from the military I have a T S top secret clearance They came in and did an investigation um on their own the people that handled the clearances right looked at the whole thing and while this was still pending

reinstated my clearance like that's how little faith anyone had in this whole thing. Right. So like I got my top secret clearance back about a month before the charges were actually formally dropped. So the state attorney dropped it. That alone was a huge relief. You know, it was enough to make me realize I wasn't, hey, I wasn't going to get falsely convicted of some crime I didn't commit. Well, I mean, you know, here's the thing is, is like, you know, until you go through like that process, like even if you're one, 100% innocent and you go to trial, there's still a chance you're found guilty.

Yeah. People think, oh, well, if you're innocent, go to, go to, you know, you should go to trial. Yeah, I get that. But the truth is, innocent people are found guilty all the time. Oh, yeah. And all you need is a couple of guys to get on the, get on the stand or for them to suddenly, conveniently lose some paperwork that you're saying was filed. Well, we couldn't find it.

And then next thing you know, you don't have a backup. It comes, you know, it comes out of nowhere. You're not prepared for it. you know, who knows what happens, or you just get a couple jury members that just dislike you and they sway the jury. Like, it can go bad. Even if you're, even if you're not guilty, it can go bad. I agree with you 100%. So that's pretty, that in and of itself is stressful. It was. It was very stressful. I mean, it was, um, I mean, it was like being in the twilight zone. I mean, you know, you, you, you know, I'm already doing a job that no, almost nobody really wants to do. Right.

I'm making this, you know, at this point I'd been in the military for 11 or 12 years, I think. And I mean, it's just something you never expect going to work for a law enforcement agency that they're going to do this to you for simply trying to meet your obligations of serving your country. Right. Even on a part-time basis. Yeah. It was just completely, I mean, the words can't describe it. I mean, I didn't, I mean, I just, scumbag move. Yeah.

Yeah, and I mean, I know there had been situations where people had done abused militarily before, but I wasn't one of those people. Right. You know, I mean, that's the thing. I had faith that they were these detectives or investigators or I had faith that they were going to do their jobs, that they were going to do what they were paid to do, do the investigation. I mean, this whole thing should have been cleared up in a couple hours. Right. And they had four months and didn't even do the basic essential functions of clearing me of doing anything wrong. So, yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable.

And, you know, these are people that work in the same organization as you, that you, you know, it's like we don't work in the same building or in the same division or anything. But, you know, like, you know, these are people I would consider my colleagues to some level. Right. That would do this to me, you know. I mean, it just really is unbelievable. So when they drop, when the state attorney said, hey, I'm not filing this. Like, did they reinstate you and say, okay, well, then we're going to go at you, no, put you back on the, you know, okay, start, work on Monday. No, they did not. They referred the case over to internal affairs. Internal affairs has

they handle the administrative portion of things. Right. So they went from trying to charge me criminally to trying to say I broke some kind of rule. And when that happened, when we got the notice that that was happening, my lawyer did two things from what I understand. First, he sent them a letter saying, Mr. Murray is still represented. If you have any desire to contact him, please go through our law office and to arrange any meetings or discussions you'd like to have with

them, something of that nature. He also took the entire case like, I don't know what you call it, the case file, and sent it over, I think it was, to the city manager, I think. And explain the situation to them. The city manager sent

back a letter within about a month stating that I had violated no rules and broken no policies or anything so you know we got that out of the way right away right so they continued to do their um investigation on the administrative side i found out the individual who was doing the investigation was also in the military guard or reserves and at first i was actually like oh good he'll understand he'll understand he'll he might get this i might i might actually have someone on my side uh boy was i wrong with that um first i get a call from my military command saying, hey, are you under another investigation? I said, yeah, they're investigating me

for administrative things now. He's like, yeah, because the detectives who's doing this, he is also apparently an investigator in the reserve component or the guard component and is going around representing himself as such. Like instead of knocking on one of my commander's doors saying, hello, I'm detective so-and-so with the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, he's flashing his military credential saying, I'm investigator so and so with this military agency. I need to talk to you about one of your soldiers. So I found that out. I was like, whoa, because that's a big no-no. I'm in an Intel unit. You don't do that kind of stuff. Right. So then, not too long after I find that out, he calls me directly on my cell phone demanding that I come in for questioning. And I'm like,

did you not get the letter my attorney sent you? And he starts yelling at me, telling me, I'm not asking, you know, you're going to cooperate with me. I'm like, okay, can I get your name and your contact number? I hung up. I called my lawyer and say, hey, this guy called me. He's demanding. I come in for an interview. I think that's y'all's department. He's like, yeah, I'll call him back. So at that point, my lawyer told me not to acknowledge any more phone calls from him or the sheriff's department. Law enforcement often questions him, not because he's suspected of a crime. but because they find him fascinating. He is the most interesting man in the world.

I don't typically commit crime, but when I do, it's bank fraud. Stay greedy, my friends. Support the channel. Join Matthew Cox's Patreon. So my lawyer calls me back and says, yeah, let's go ahead and go in for this interview. I mean, because our ducks in a row, you know, this way we can say we were cooperative and we did everything we could to try to resolve this. So we went in for questioning.

I sat down with this guy and my lawyer and one of the other internal affairs supervisors was present. He starts questioning me, and the questions he just asked me were completely off the wall. None of them had anything to do with me. I mean, he was even asking me to explain why my command staff of my military unit would do something different from his command staff of his military unit. I mean, it was very vague, indirect questioning. None of it had anything to do with anything really to my case. At the end of the interview, my lawyer had to interject a couple times because he was trying to get into stuff that wasn't even, like, relevant to the case.

So the interview concluded, and around that time, the training I was originally supposed to go to when I was falsely arrested, I got orders to actually go to. This was about a year later. So I was, you haven't worked for over for a year now, roughly. Not really, no. I had, had, like I said, my military unit was giving me some administrative orders. They were having me come in just to help them around the office.

Yeah, but that's not going to be the same as working at that. No, it was definitely not as much money as I was making with my job for sure. But, I mean, it was better than nothing. Right. You know, it was enough for us to, like I said earlier, we were able to keep the lights on. My wife at the time had a job. We were able to sustain at least. Right.

And, you know, in spite of having to, you know, get rid of some of my assets, we were able to at least live a halfway decent lifestyle without having, you know, we were able to eat. We were eating, you know, ramen noodles and peanut butter every day. But anyway, like I said, I got orders to go on this training and I was like, yes, finally. So I get the orders. I go through all the, you know, do all the packing, the paperwork. work. I fly out to Arizona to do the orders. I'm on orders and the same detective, again, tries to call me. And per my lawyer, I just ignored him. I called my lawyer, said, hey, this detective left me a couple voicemails. He's like, yeah, I've already talked to him. He says the investigation's

been completed and they want us to come in to reveal the results. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm on orders out in Arizona. I'm supposed to be here for another several months. So he's like, yeah, I'll let him know that. So anyway, apparently when he calls this detective back to tell him, yeah, he's on orders, the detective had what was told to me is basically being as a connipion fit. He is ranting and raving. How's he on military orders? You know, just like, that's not supposed to happen. I guess he was under the feeling that because this was still going on, the military still had me in like a suspended status as well. Right. Well, the next day, I'm sitting in class, and one of my class leaders pulls me out and pulls me into a conference room

and says, hey, tell me about your arrest. I'm like, excuse me? Because I hadn't mentioned this to anybody at the schoolhouse that I was at. Right. I'm like, he's like, yeah, I got a phone call from somebody claiming that you've been arrested for a felony. I'm like, well, yeah, but that's all been handled. So apparently, this detective, I guess when he got the orders, his intent was to derail my military training somehow by calling this school. And just, there was no point to that. It had nothing to do with his investigation, but he did it anyway. Right. Well, unfortunately, while I was out there, I was unable to finish the training. We had a death in the family. My grandfather passed away. I was sent home on Red Cross orders. After the funeral, I came back to Jacksonville,

and my lawyer and I set up a schedule. We went in to, you know, hear what they had to say. about this whole case, we go in, and this original detective didn't even show himself. Like, he didn't even come in to talk to us. I don't know what happened to him. But two of his colleagues came in, and they, even after everything we had told them, like, yeah, we've gone to the city manager, this and that, even after all that, they still tried to sustain administrative allegations against me and were recommending I be fired. Like, okay, so what happens now?

So they laid out the options, and one of the options was we could have had a civil service hearing, which would have taken it beyond the sheriff's office. Right. And I'm like, you know what, let's do that. I'm sick and tired of this. This has been going on for too long. I want to get this, you know, put to bed once and for all. So we opted to have the civil service hearing.

We informed him of that. We leave. And the sheriff's office constantly delayed the civil service hearing, like, months. Finally, my lawyer got it to a point where, like, we're going to have the civil service hearing. We are going before them, and we are going to, they're going to hear us here what we have to say, and they're going to make a decision as to whether or not you actually did anything wrong. Right. I like the delay practice is just to try and wear you down, wear you down, wear you down. Yeah. And so about a, I think it was about a week before the

civil service hearing, um, my lawyer calls and says, hey, um, the undersheriff, wants to meet with us to, as he put it, potentially resolve this issue. And I'm like, I don't think so. I think I've had enough. I'd rather just do the civil service hearing. So he calls me back and says, let's go meet with him. And again, we can at least say we did everything we could to try and resolve this in a peaceful matter before it went to litigation. I was like, okay, so I go down to the sheriff's office.

I go into his office and with my lawyers. His lawyers, one of the city lawyers, is sitting there taking notes in the corner. And it was pretty clear from the beginning of the meeting that the undersheriff had no interest in resolving this. He basically was trying to force me to take a, they were trying to get me to take a deal. Instead of firing me, they wanted me to take a deal where I would agree to a suspension in exchange for agreeing to say that I misuse my leave. And I'm like, well, I'm not going to do that because I didn't misuse my leave. so the sheriff just started making all these off

the under sheriff just started making all these off the wall you know accusations oh you could have still gone to work that day I'm like no you can't when you have orders you are obligated to those orders right and it got to the point where I just wouldn't agree with him he ended up like all of this is over one fucking day it boiled down to one day in fact even when the criminal case was that you were set up you were set up I was set up you were set up to be you were set up to Hey, do this, do this, put in for the, put in for a vacation day.

We deny the vacation day and now he's, now he's like, I didn't even realize all these other days were in play until the arrested happened. And we found out during this time also when my lawyer got a hold of the original case, this lieutenant who had done this to me had been setting this up for a while. She had included photos off my Facebook page of when I was on vacation with my friends and family when I wasn't even on military leave just to try and fluff up the complaint to make it. seem more appealing. I wonder, you know, so, so in the, like the correctional officers at like Coleman, right? Mm-hmm. Which is where, where I was. Like, they'll get bonuses if they catch inmates with, you catch an inmate with a cell phone, you'll get like a $400 bonus. Catch an inmate with, you know, this much, you know, whatever, drugs, you'll get this much. Like, you know, if certain contraband gets them, give, have an incentive. Like, I wonder.

if she had an incentive to, you know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? I honestly don't think so because she was already in the drop for retirement. Like she was scheduled to retire within the next couple years. Well, still, if it's 800 bucks. Yeah, I don't think we had any kind of financial. And plus, even if there was, I don't think she would have gotten that bonus.

It would have been the detectives who had secured a conviction on me or something like that. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm just an asshole. Pretty much. Okay. And like I said, she has done this to other people I work with, not to this extreme level, but I don't know what her issue was, but she had a huge problem with a lot of people that work there. I don't know why. I always came to work.

I try to be, you know, every job I've had, I've always tried to be professional, courteous. I come to work. I do my job. I'm not there to make statements or anything. I'm there to do my job, make my money, go home and live my life. That's what I was there for. To me, it was a way of surviving, making money to live. and hopefully have an early retirement right that's all i was there for nothing else but um so he makes

the offer yeah he and i tell him no um he ends up throwing me out of his office he just basically looks at me and i'm just like shaking my head through this whole thing he says get out of my office officer murray i'm like i'm like gladly so i get up i walk out um my lawyer um you know my lawyers are like, yeah, that didn't go the way we were hoping either. So, you know, time kept creeping closer to the civil service hearing. Within a couple days, they offered to give me my back pay, which was around $10,000, saying, we're prepared to offer this if he'll resolve the civil service. And I said, okay, so they're going to drop the disciplinary allegations and let me have my money. They're like, no, no, you still have to plead guilty. I'm like, no. So then, like,

literally about two days before, I start getting phone calls on my phone from the JSO switchboard. And per my lawyer, I didn't answer them, didn't acknowledge them. And they said, yeah, we're not getting calls from anybody from JSO. I don't know why they're calling you. Apparently they were trying to get me to come back to work, like within the last day or two before the civil service hearing. And then...

But they didn't leave messages, voicemails or email? They did leave a couple, but yeah, one of them was saying, yeah, we're trying to coordinate this. So I called my lawyer and he's like, yeah, they shouldn't be doing that because they even said prior to this happening, like, I wouldn't be eligible to return to work until after the hearing. The hearing. So I even got a certified mail letter the day after they were expecting me to return to work. Like the day I got it was the day after they wanted me to come back into work. And then my lawyer's trying to use the excuse me, their lawyer was using the excuse to my lawyers saying, well, if he doesn't show up for work, he's abandoning his job and

he's not eligible to have the hearing. I'm like, they're like, no, he can still have the hearing and we're still going to have the hearing. And then people started showing up at my house. I was not around one day. My wife was in the house and a gentleman pulled up in our driveway, driving a white unmarked police car, as my neighbor described it, wearing a polo shirt with our sheriff's office logo on the breast pocket. came to our door and started kicking and banging on our door. My wife was scared enough to where she actually armed herself. Like, she didn't know who this person was.

She thought they were trying to break in the house. My neighbor was standing on the other side of the fence. Apparently, he looked over at my neighbor, and when he saw my neighbor, he left. But, you know, we were still determined to have this hearing. Like, it was going to happen. And then literally the night before the hearing, I think it was, my lawyer says, okay they're willing to give you the money and drop everything if you're just willing to walk away and resign which is probably what I was going to end up doing anyway so we got the end result we wanted

so if you went to a hearing all the hearing would have done was just embarrassed them and come up with you would have gotten the same result exactly so yeah um but yeah and all this was at the direction like one of the letters I got it said per undersheriff and had this guy's name so he was directing all this harassment all these phone calls knowing that I had lawyers just um to try and scare me into um i guess not showing up or something like that i don't know what his exact intent was but that's what i perceived it as so have you filed a lawsuit against yeah we um we did end up it took a while but we did end up filing a lawsuit um they just settled it out of court uh when it came to um they drug it out for a very long time uh since then a lot's

happened since then uh i finally did finish the training the following year i was able to finish my Intel training. I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2017. Unfortunately, I had to go through a divorce. After all that was done, we filed the lawsuit. That was around 2018, and we just finally got it resolved. Three years later? Yeah. And two years, well, two years. Yeah, no, it was three years later. It was three? Yeah. Actually, no, it's more like four years. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, from what I understand, my lawyers just, like, they just drug it out. They just refused to, it finally got to the point where we were able to depose people and at that point I guess they agreed to just settle it out of court. Yeah, once they start to see how bad

they're going to look in front of a jury. Um, okay. Yeah, but you can't say how much the lawsuit was settled. Yeah, there's a gag order on the, on the actual amount. Yep. Yeah, I know. I've signed one of those. Um, so, uh, so what are you doing now? Well, now I'm a, I'm working as a I'm working as a contractor for the government doing various intel works. Oh, that's right, that's right. We talked about that too. Yeah, pertinent to my skills in the Army. Yeah, yeah, okay.

So, yeah, it's, I am doing something productive. But, yeah, fortunately, like I said, the biggest ally I think I had in this whole thing was the Army. The Army stood shoulder to shoulder with me. They, you know, I mean, the people in my unit were, you know, they're very old school. Like, no man left behind. And they were not going to let me get trampled over this whole thing. So has the, like, you still live in that county, right? Jacksonville.

And Jacksonville? Oh, you moved? No, no, I live in Nassau County, Florida. Okay. And I worked in Jacksonville, which is Duval County. Okay. So what I'm saying, it's no, they have nobody's contacted you, driven by your house, no more intimidation, nothing like that?

I don't think so. No, not that I'm aware of. Okay. neighbors are after that whole thing too i still have the same neighbors and they are constantly looking out i've been keeping them up to date and yeah my neighbors are have been watching my house especially when the lost seat part started getting a little more hot because we were worried that they were going to try to do it again right but um yeah and i mean i mean it's just real sad i don't get this because and this was not the first time they had messed with me for being in the military

prior to this whole thing starting either i just really don't understand how a sheriff's department can go through so much trouble to make life miserable for a service member who works for them. Right. Well, you know, it's it's funny. Like, you know, in the, in the Bureau of Prisons, you know, they, for some reason, a lot of those jobs, they attract just like mentally disturbed people. Like, I mean, you're in a position where you're in charge of other people, you know? So, and you're in a position where very seldomly you're questioned, you know. So I would get a lot, we would get a lot of these guys.

Some of the CEOs, they just want to come. I'm here to get a paycheck. Like, don't do anything in front of me. Don't get in any fights. You know, they go through the motions. They just want to pick up their paycheck and leave and just, you know, you guys, follow the rules. Or if you're going to break them, but don't do it in front of me. Like, don't do, don't be stupid.

Yeah. Don't harm each other. Let me go. And then you have the CEOs that make it their, their, you know, they make it their mission to make all the inmates miserable And the problem is what I've after talking to other COs, those same COs tend to make the other COs miserable. It's like it's their their goal to try and make everybody as unhappy as possible. I can definitely relate to that. So everybody thinks, oh, well, it's just, you know, it's just us, no, no, the other COs hate this guy too.

Yeah. So I, you know, I think that maybe that I don't know what's with that, that woman. I don't know what her deal was. I don't either. You would think that somewhere down the line, someone would have said, hey, wait a second. Well, it sounds like a few people did. Like the state attorney is like, I'm not doing this. Multiple people did, but a few people in the direct line, like the detective should have, or the internal affairs guy should have kind of looked at it and said, listen, honestly, what are we doing here?

Well, now that you mentioned that, when I did this whole thing started and I called the union to tell them what's going on, they even said, did this lieutenant start this? And I said, yep. And they're like, oh, God, not again. Like, so, I mean, they were already very familiar. And another thing is, too, it's my understanding. This facility I was working at, um, I started working at the county prison, the Montgomery Correction Center. Right.

I was working downtown at the jail for a while because there was another incident where another supervisor, um, who was working with her when this whole thing started, coincidentally, um, was trying to mess with my military leave. And then, um, I came back to work at the farm. She had been transferred out there against her will. So she had been moved from the main jail out to the work farm for whatever reason. She's retired now, though, right? To my understanding, yes.

When this whole thing started, she was already in the, we call it the drop, in the plan to be retired. So like I said, yeah, I don't know what her problem with me was. There were a couple times I had to go over her head on certain things using utilizing chain of command to get resolution to some other issues. I don't know. Maybe she had it in for me for that. But I mean, yeah, I don't know what her problem was. But like I said, it was not just me. She had done this to other people and had, you know, not to this extreme level, but like just set other other officers up to be investigated

and put in a position where they could be found guilty of something that they didn't do, you know, for just doing their job. I mean, and it is sad because, I've discussed this with other people. There are a lot of very unhappy people in that line of work. And, you know, I don't know why they do it if it makes you that unhappy. Well, I mean, well, first of all, in the best of circumstances, it's just kind of a shitty job. You know, like who do you, the inmates are, you know, you're around a bunch of violent inmates.

You're around guys that are in the worst part of their life. You're around a bunch of people. You're trying to, you're trying to kind of corral. individuals that don't follow the rules. You know, it's like, you know, trying to herd cats. You know what I'm saying? Like, they just don't listen. They don't.

And, you know, when I was locked up, like, the prison would try and give us privileges, and the inmates would immediately ruin those privileges. Like, they would immediately push the envelope, and then they get taken away, and then all the other inmates would hate the staff for taking this away. And it was like, yeah, but you understand it was pretty simple. Like, all you had to do is this and this, and you got this, but these guys get up. Like everything that gets taken away tends to be the part or the problem with the,

uh, problem with the inmates. Right. So you get to a point where it's like the staff, even if they're, even if they're trying to do something for you, the inmates ruin it and the inmates hate the staff. And then the staff ends up hating the inmates. And then it's just, it's just such a miserable environment. Yeah, it can be. I can relate to that very much.

So, um, yeah, I, uh, I was going to say it's, yeah, it's a horrible situation in general. And I'm sure, and it's even worse in the county jail because county jails are horrible. Yeah, I've never worked at the prison level other than this county prison, which is still a detachment of the county facility. But, yeah, I've heard worse things about the state because the inmates there are there a lot longer. Some of them are doing 20 years to life and they have nothing to lose. They don't care.

You know, it's funny because in the state, prison system you have a lot of interaction with the guards they're there they're there all the time right right in the federal um prison system it's set up in a way that i could go months without ever talking to a ceo like or or even you might see a few of them throughout the day but not even really you're just in a herd of guys going into the chow hall and maybe there's one or two cos in there they're not paying attention to you it's more like a self-led type program absolutely you you you're then you're you come back, if you just kind of follow the rules, you go in the unit, they close the doors, they lock the doors, 30 minutes later, they call, you know, wreck move or whatever, the door is open

for 10 minutes, you go to the rec yard, you hang out the wreck yard for three hours. Then, then when they call, you know, recall, the door's open, you go back to the unit. Like, the doors closed, you go to your, you go to your cell, you wait to be counted, the guard walks around, and that's it. 20 minutes later, they call chow, you go to chow, you go, like all of this is happening, and there's a CO maybe over there. Maybe he's in the office. Maybe.

Oh, yeah, there he is. You know, but he's 45 feet away. He's, there's 180 guys and he's, he's playing on his phone or on the computer or not even paying attention to you. So, but the state, it's like the COs are there all the time. They're always around. They're always because the state inmates are, you know, they're much more violent, much more, um, that you, they have to have more interaction with them because they have to constantly keep them. They're constant fights. They're constant, like, you get a.

a worse inmate in state prisons. So yeah, it's, but in the county, county's horrible. Well, another aspect of county we have to deal with is too. There are a lot of people in the county jail that are not guilty. They've been arrested and most of them are pre-trial. Or they're arrested for something minor. So you've got a guy with the DUI who was arrested who's in the same unit as a guy who's on trial for killing three people. Yeah, and it's like, this guy's, this guy becomes a victim.

Yeah. He's not prepared for that. Well, that's the thing. You know, like, once they've been there a while, they do, both the departments I've worked for, they do try to separate. Kind of separate inmates by the severity of their crimes and whatnot. But yeah, when they first come in, there's like this general, like, you, I guess you would maybe call it a triage area where they all, it's like a general holding area where they all go in there. They're in this, and it's usually an open, like a bullpen type situation. And like you said, you got a guy in there for DUI or maybe CDV or possession of a small amount of cannabis or something.

And he's in there with a guy who just, you know, is like a Ted Bundy 2.0 or something like that. You don't know, you know, you don't know who's in there. And none of these people have been really vetted as far as their mental health, their physical health or anything like that. So there's a lot of varying factors there. I was just going to say, I have a buddy who's locked up for fraud. And so he's there for a fraud, for depositing a government stimulus check into his bank out. And it was a fake check. Oh, dear.

And they grab him and he ends up getting, goes into jail. Well, he's in there with a guy that's on trial right now for murdering his girlfriend. And the guy tried, had already gone to prison for like five or six years for murdering his girlfriend 10 years ago. So he went to jail for five or six years, got out, started dating another girl, murdered her. And my buddy's in there. with him. He's there for fraud. Like he's totally nonviolent. He's like, this guy's killing people, you know, or trying to

kill people and did kill this one woman. He's like, and he's on my work detail. Like, we pass out sandwiches, you know? Yeah. I mean, he's like, he's like, I'm not prepared to be around this guy. He's a maniac. Well, the whole thing is too, it's like, you know, with the whole equal rights thing, you're supposed to treat each person the same. But at the same time, it's, you just can't always do that because like you said, this guy's already been to prison for trying to killed this he killed he stabbed his last girlfriend he stabbed her like 30 times and and tried to kill her like this is clearly you're guilty and then you just stabbed another girlfriend like you can't say well needs to be equal what are you talking about he's already been to prison like

I love I I get the whole in the justice system it does bother me that someone will go to jail and they'll do five years and they get out and to me it's like okay you kind of I get the whole you paid your debt to society and that people should give you a second chance. But I also understand that, you know, like the truth is you, they just, a lot of guys go into prison and they get out way worse, way worse than when they went in. It's like a gladiator camp type thing, you know, and where they, yeah, it just gets them more beefed up and they get into a gang or something.

Like, I want to give you a chance, but you were a bad apple before you went into prison and now you went to a state prison with really bad apples. you didn't get out more well-rounded. Like you're probably a menace now. Yeah, it's so funny because when I worked for Charleston County back in the, oh gosh, that was like 18 years ago when I started working for them. I still have some friends that work there. And they tell me like, yeah, these kids that came through as juveniles are still coming

in and out of the jail. They're going to prison for a couple years at the time for doing the same stuff. Prisons only making them harder and harder. And like they're just learning more ways on how to beat the system. not be in prison as long. And listen to fraud, like I used to say, I feel like I went into prison with like a GED in fraud. And I got out with like a master's degree because now you're actually connecting with

other people and learning way more. Like the issue I may have had like in my fraud, this guy has a way around that. He had an issue which was easy for me to overcome. So you end up comparing notes and going, wow, I never thought about that. Like, yeah, you're right. that would be a, God, I can't believe.

And next thing you know, like, you get out and you've got way more information. You're way more dangerous. Like, if I wanted to commit fraud now, like, I'm way more lethal than I ever was before. You can only imagine these guys that are selling drugs or doing, God knows what. Yeah. It just blows my mind, though. Like, you know, when I go, you know, and, you know, that's another thing. Like, I, when I went to work in corrections, both departments, I knew that, like, you're going to be dealing with criminals.

Yeah, yeah. Not all of them are guilty, but you know, you're going to be dealing with a large amount of criminals. You're going to be dealing with people who may not be considered the, I guess you might want to say, the top echelon of society, if that's a fair statement. I mean, you're going to be dealing with basically scumbags. Most of them are just scumbags. I mean, that would be like me sitting here saying, you know, I'm really a nice guy. No, I was a scumbag. I was doing scumbag things.

Like, I'm like, you know, like, I mean, there are great aspects of people. You know, I've met some of the best people I've ever, I've ever met in prison. But it's like, you know, like, I love this guy, but I wouldn't let him invest my pension, you know? Like, this guy's a, he's running a Ponzi scheme. He's a nice guy for this. Yeah, and that's the thing. Like, while I was working in corrections, I did meet some inmates who, like, I could honestly say if we, he wasn't in jail and I didn't work there. If we'd met at a bar, we could sit down, have a beer, have a nice conversation and talk about motorcycles, cars, trucks, some other hobby.

But yeah, I wouldn't trust him to. like you said, I wouldn't trust him with my value assess or anything like that. Right. But, you know, the sad thing is, though, is it's like you go working in a jail or a prison. You expect to deal with certain behavior from the inmates. I never thought in my wildest dreams I would ever have to deal with something like this from the very sheriff's department I worked for and the very immediate chain of command who was supposed to be watching my back.

Yeah, but see, I agree. I understand. But at Coleman, the guards, the COs were fight, were getting to fist fight with each other in the parking lot. Like they'd get into an argument and they would suddenly be like, you know, hey, bro, I get off at five. I'll meet you in the parking lot. And they'd go out and they'd actually get into a fist fight in the parking lot. Yeah, I've heard of that. They'd actually have arguments. Like you have somebody who runs the compound, right?

He's a compound officer. Everything that deals with the compound, the moves, everything he's in charge of. and you would have the guard the COs would argue over the PA system like one CEO would say compound closed compound closed and then another one would come out and say compound's open five uh you know five uh at four o'clock of compound will be closed compound's open and then the other guy would come back and he'd say no compound's closed compound is closed this is sergeant so it compounds and then they start and then they would say and you know they start arguing like you know recus over Open. Rec is a come to the wreck move. And it's like, what are you guys doing? Like you guys, inmates like, yeah, it's like, it's like, what do you? I mean, can you guys make a phone call and say, hey, bro, what are you doing?

Yeah, that's the thing. And like anytime I ever, you know, like, my big thing is, you know, that, that is one nice thing about being in the reserves is, you know, I've been a NCO or not commissioned officer in the Army since, um, golly, when did I get it? About 2011, it was while I was working for JSO. One thing is I've always learned is with that is it's your first duty. is to be professional. Yeah.

So I've always taken that to every job I've had, no matter what it is. You know, I try to be professional. I try to treat people how I'd expect to be treated at work. We're all adults here. You know, we're here to get the job done. Let's find a way to make it work. Right. And, you know, go home at the end of the day, you know, without hating each other.

Unfortunately, there's just a lot of people not only in that line of work, but in general that just don't have that mentality. It's like they have to be right. They have to be in control. You know, you get a lot of, you know, being in the military, too. That was something I learned in basic training. You know, you got people coming from all over the different parts of the country from all walks of life. You're dealing with very different personalities.

And, you know, you just have to learn to get along with people. And that's part of basic training. And that is one of the things where I guess a lot of law enforcement agencies do like to hire vets because they've been through that. They know how. But then the problem is you get the people who. have never been in the military don't know how it works right and then they create problems um like i went through so it's and what's funny too is look at the amount of resources that was that was expended the amount of time resources you know all everything that happened as a result of one woman setting

you up to end up looking like you were taking a day off on your vacation day yeah you took a vacation day where that had been denied i did what i did what i was told to do um i had been doing what i was told to do. I did the right thing to do from the whole situation and I did everything I was supposed to do. The Army's confirmed, you know, that's the beautiful thing. Every person I talked to said, you did the right thing. And then it cost them a lawsuit. You know, then you end up having a like I guarantee that lawsuit was more than the one day. Oh, yeah. More than the $245 that it cost them for that one day of you being missing. Well, not to mention the legal fees they had to spend for four years, from what I understand, they've had to make massive policy revisions over this

whole thing. So, I was actually told that by someone, too, one of the union representatives. All because of one jerk. Yeah, one of the union reps who actually, this is another person who originally told me I did nothing wrong. And then when the IA thing was going on, he's the one that called me to try to get me to take a deal. And I'm like, yeah, you told me a year and a half ago, I did nothing wrong. And then once I called him out on it, he started back paddling and at the end of the conversation you know he says i've been working for the sheriff's office for something like 20 30 years i have never seen somebody fight back against him this hard and he actually said i appreciate what you're doing because you're going

to make life easier for the next person i think about doing this too so it sucks for me but you know that's one thing that is probably the biggest takeaway from a positive aspect is i made them think twice before they do this to somebody else like maybe they'll actually get up off their desk chairs do their jobs right and go do an investigation what they're getting paid to do before they go out and try to ruin somebody's life. Right. You know, because, I mean, that's how I feel. They tried to ruin my life.

They didn't just want my job with JSO. They were trying to strip my clearance, my military career, the whole nine yards. They were trying to make it to where I would have ended up probably, you know, been mopping toilets for the rest of my life, you know, if they'd had their way. You know, it's sad. But, I mean, and these are people I worked with. These are people who I went to work who I expected to watch my back and, you know, look out for me. because I always tried to look out for, you know, if I saw one of my officers was having a problem, one of my colleagues, I'd always try to do whatever I could to help them.

And I thought, you know, it's sad, you know, you think that way, but you do for one, they don't do for you type thing. Right. It's really sad. You have to work in that kind of environment. But yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, coming out of it, though, I mean, after this going on for eight years, it's just, like, unbelievable. Eight years, yeah, the whole thing was over eight years.

Well, if you count the time of investment. it was probably longer than that because the like I said the investigation went on for four months prior to this actually my false arrest happening and then we just literally resolved it within the last month the lawsuit part so I mean it went on for a long time I'm you know like I said I'm just I'm just I'm thankful to God that I had a good support system to the military my family right my friends people that you know people I really found out who my friends were through that whole thing you know when I was um because you know like that old country song you chips are down yeah that's absolutely yeah when you you find out who your friends really are

when that happens and I did I had a lot of people that were um coming to my aid um you know try offering to help me you know letting helping me um get odd jobs and stuff just stuff to do in the meantime so I could keep like I said keep the money coming in um but yeah it was an unbelievable stressful environment you know um for not not only for me but for my ex-wife who I was married to at the time. We just both were like, we had no idea what's going to happen next. It's just not something you ever expect to have to go into. You know, like I said, when you go to work for a sheriff's office and agree to work for them, and like I said, they knew I was in the reserves. And unfortunately, like I said earlier,

this was not the first time they had tried. I don't know what it is with that sheriff's office, but this was not the first time they had messed with me from my military leave. I had a sergeant who was involved with this case, who was involved in the whole setup. He actually was trying to keep me on probation for taking military leave, which is strictly against federal law. That's why I ended up actually having to be moved down to the jail from the farm for a while because, you know, they were trying to get me to sign papers to basically relinquish the rights to my military leave so they could keep me on probation longer.

And I'm like, you can't do this. Right. And went into the Marshal Service in 1995. So how long were you in the Navy? Almost seven years. I went in right out of high school in 1988 and I got out of the Navy on a Saturday in June in 95 and on Sunday, June of 95, I was in the Marshal Service. I didn't even have a breaker service at all.

Okay. And you know, I went to training in Glenco, Georgia and then after that I went to training in And then after that, I went right to Eastern District of New York, Brooklyn, and served almost all of my 25 years there in Brooklyn. In the beginning, I started out as a deputy in working court operations, prisoner transport, serving some like civil process, administrative duties, and, you know, doing my little rotations in the Warren Squad. So it took a little bit of little time, and then I, you know, gravitated right to do them

warrants and working the street and doing fugitive investigations. And after some special assignments of protection details and even some high-profile trials, I eventually was right into the Warren squad and did that. I bet your majority of my career is working warrants and I was lucky enough to be part of the New York, New Jersey Regional Fugitive Task Force, which started right after September 11th and funded by Congress it's one of the biggest task forces in the nation and still is and is that so is that what you like if you're like if you're a police officer like you know a lot of them you know ultimately they want to work like homicide you know they want to like that's like is working the the um the fugitive or the war and the warrant squad is that like what you like

when you join is that like that's the goal That's it. Yeah, when you're a deputy marshal with the U.S. Marshals, that's the, that's it. That's the pedestal of being in the Marshal Service. I mean, there's so many different divisions and sections, but everybody wants to work fugitive investigation warrants. You want to be on a task force. I mean, I worked with the greatest cops in the world. I worked in, when I was in Brooklyn and the city, I worked with NYPD and, you know, coming from New York and then dealing with everybody in the nation here with different states, there's nothing better than, you know, NYPD detectors. They're like the best. And we had dozens of them. We had NYPD sergeants,

lieutenants, then we had state police officers, immigration customs officers there, DHS. We even had relationship with DEA and ATF, even FBI and Secret Service. And we just worked together great. And it's, you know, when you join the Marshal Service, you know, you see it on TV and the movies, everybody wants to work fugitive investigations and track down the worst to the worst out there, you know? And in New York, you know, there's no place better to work the street than there. So I did that for years and stayed in Brooklyn mainly. And then I was moving up, you know, with seniority. And then I put in and I took the test and I became a supervisor. back in like 2009, 2010, and my chief is a great man.

He had a lot of trust and confidence in me, selected me to become the supervisor. I had to do a couple of months in the courthouse, you know, working with everybody in there, and then eventually my chief put me back into the Warren squad. And next to you know, I'm there supervising now the guys and girls I worked with for years. But it seemed like everybody wanted that. You know, they wanted me back there because I knew what I was doing and I made things happen. And I did that for almost 10 years. Our Warren Squad was part of the New York, New Jersey, Regional Feudor Task Force,

which was in Brooklyn, New York City, as well as out in Long Island, which was Nassau and Suffolk County. I was also responsible for that, along with other supervisors. So what happened is out in Long Island, it was a sub-office, and we had deputy marshals rotating through there. Well, we had one young lady who was really interested in doing it, and it was me and another supervisor who selected her to go back there and work with the local officers from Nassau and Suffolk County in Long Island. to be full-time on the Warren squad. And she was going to represent the Eastern District and she was a U.S. Marshal. And this is now the U.S. Marshals,

it's our task force. We run it. Okay. Well, she was doing good for a couple of years. Right. And then some of the guys that she gravitated to, they were older and they retired, you know? And that was kind of like her go-to guys.

well, the other guys in the task force, they didn't really take too kindly to her. They would make fun of her, tease her, and then it just started escalating, and then it got into bullying, and then they would blackball her, they would ignore her. They would start messing with her desk. And at one time, she went, you know, you go to Costco or BJs and you get those big plastic tubs of cookies, animal crackers. Right. So she would put them on her desk and share it with everybody. Well, one of these task force officers, local cop, urinated in her cookies and left it there.

And she knew you could smell it. Yeah. What's the issue? Like, why did they? Well, it came out. And she was a female. Right. And she was, she's an Army veteran.

She's a U.S. Marshal and these guys did not want to take orders or directions from her. They just did not want to deal with her. They wanted to be, it was an all-guise group out there. Right. And the icing on a cake is she was a lesbian. And she was an open person. She spoke about, she was gay, and she had a girlfriend. And they did not want that.

their group they didn't want to they didn't want to be part of that but this girl she her name's out there dawn she was well known well liked the courthouse everybody in there loved her she was um she was athletic played softball soccer she participated everything she was you know a fun person that have around how many guys are there here that are doing this is it three or is it six i mean is there it was up there was um four to six guys that were messing with her and it got to a point where she brought it to my attention and then I confronted the supervisor that was out there running handling those guys and um he just ignored it he said you know suck it up you know he's not here to be a babysitter when in fact you are you're the supervisor you have to babysit some

of these people. And everybody has to, they need to get along, they need to work as a, as a cohesive group. All the time and, you know, you have to develop a relationship. You have to be friends, you have to be partners, you have to get along with each other, you have to build something there. I mean, these guys and girls are carrying guns, wearing vest, you know, work in a street and you're doing a lot of hours. So she would do things and be like, hey, you're not checking in with me, you're not

telling me you're doing hits. They would just go and do interviews and arrest people and not even tell her. And she's the team leader. She's the boss. So after these guys found out, we spoke to the supervisor out there, they got more in range. So then they would, now they would bully her and argue with her, totally ignore her, and then start teasing her. They would, in any, any marshal's office you work in, you know, you transport prisoners and they try to bring that legal work to the, cell block. And in illegal workers porn books. Right. You know, so we would seize that. They would

be in a box. Next to you know, some of these magazines are heading up on her desk and they're opening up pitches of girls on top of girls. They're playing porn in the office where you hear the morning. And she's the only woman back there. So it's a couple of guys against her. We bring that forward to and nothing happens, but now it just escalates more and more. Well, there was one task force officer who was, had Spanish heritage and he came out and he made her kiss him every morning to say hello. And this is on your team, these are your co-workers and she just did it all the time and just fell into that, you know, comfort of doing it.

And when she told me about it, I was like, are you kidding? You got to be kidding me. We don't do this. I don't, you know, I don't even do that with half my family members given and kiss us hello. So that man at one point grabbed her in the office when she was trying to walk by and started almost groping her and just feeling her up and calling her a sexy bitch.

Right. And other people saw it and they laughed. She felt embarrassed. She was crying and she was humiliated. She left. So then she called me and then that was it. I was like, you're just stay home. And then I confronted the supervisor again.

And he now then went and said something to the guys. And it went over the weekend and that guy was told not to come back. Well, two other guys didn't like that. So they showed up on one morning while they were preparing to do a hit and a rest. And people were like, why are you guys here? You're on a different team. And they were like, oh, we're just here to back you up.

So when they went in the house, they get the perp, but Dawn was sitting on another person in the house, just watching. Right. And one of those guys walked by and pushed her, shoved their hitter, like a shoulder to the back and made her stumble. And this gave her a look. And the look was after she told me was, we can get to you. Right.

You know, what are you doing? Why are you talking this stuff? So that moment I told, I took her off the task force, had to go report it to my chief. and she just reported so much more stuff that was happening and it went up to chain to headquarters at the Marshal Service and in the beginning Internal Affairs was going to investigate this but some other leadership personnel who were over the task force got involved and suggested that they have an investigator come and investigate

what was going on there And it went from these accusations, these complaints, these, you know, charges to these these guys controlling an investigation and investigating themselves. And this executive from the headquarters selected an investigator who was at a New Hampshire, who was part of the task force in New Hampshire, who knew. the guys in the task force in New York in Long Island. So he investigated it, and it turned from these, you know, an assault, sexual harassment and, you know, bullying, all these things, to an investigation on office culture, which lasted a couple of months. And the finding in that report was that I was a bad supervisor,

and Dawn was the problem that enraged these guys because she was not a good co-worker. Okay. And all these people involved. Even they interviewed people that were never even there but were part of the task force just couldn't stop praising the great work and personalities of these other guys. Right. Which we all knew was fault. We all knew.

You just know, you know, and too many other people were coming and making, supporting Dawn's allegations. Well, well, that was going on to one task force officer who hit Dawn, shoved her. He found out I was going to a New York Mets baseball game during this investigation. And him and a couple other task force officers made it a point to go to that baseball game, which was in Queens, and it was on law enforcement appreciation night. And he confronted me at the game, and we got into a big argument, and cursing and nose to nose, we were going to fight. And it went on for a couple of seconds, and then it just stopped.

I walked away and left, and I reported it to my chief, like, this is what happened. This is going to be, you know, an off-d-incident. You know, I'm going to get investigated. But so strange, there was law enforcement appreciation night. There was a bunch of members from the New York City Task Force office there who witnessed this, and one happened to be the chief of the whole task force. So the next day, he made it a point to remove that task force officer from the task force. And but he was still able to work with them, but he couldn't be in the courthouse anymore.

It couldn't be in the office space. So the results come out about the office culture investigation. Right. So now my chief is livid. He's like, this is insane. you know first of all I wasn't even there when these things were happened so how can I be a bad supervisor and when I did hear about it I reported it got involved and confronted the supervisor so my chief and and the marshal then argue with the leadership from the marshal's headquarters

and he's you know they go through the whole list of complaints like you investigated all this and went through this stuff and found nothing nothing at all you're going to let this deputy marshal female tell you that somebody peed in her food right and you're going to ignore it well one of the people on that telephone call said he didn't know about that and now that we bring that to his attention he's going to instruct internal affairs to investigate that specific incident just that one right not these are the ones that she had listed so you wait a month or two internal affairs comes into the office which they're terrible they're absolutely horrible they're the people that can not get into the Warren squad, they're jealous, they're angry, you know, they're tools.

Right. So they come in, now their first person they want to interview is the guy who tried to fight me at the baseball game who's no longer on the task force. So now we're a year after this all started from the office culture investigation. Right. And he comes in and they sit them down in internal affairs out in Long Island. They come up and they ask them, you know, do you know why you're hearing? He says no.

And they're like, well, does there anything you would like to tell us? And he goes, yeah, I would. He goes, Bobby Lediger is a racist. He covers up crime. He's the biggest problem in the task force. This is a year later now. This never came out during the office. culture investigation. I wasn't even mentioned.

Is this guy black or Hispanic? Oh, no. He's Greek. He's Greek. Okay. From Long Island, white guy. Right. And we all hung out. Like, we were all worked together, went out to the bars together. Well, that's the worst thing you can say. That's it. He's racist. Racist. So then him and his co-worker partner who was on the task force kind of agreed. And then he interviewed him. Yeah, he's a racist. He says to N-word all the time. And, everybody knows about it. And we're only coming forth now because of how much damage Bobby

Lettinger caused to the task force by having him removed. I'm like, okay. So this goes on. So now they try to create scenes or scenarios or incidents where I said specifically the N-word. And one was during an arrest. And they said that, um, and one of the other. guys who were one of the bad actors in this, tased the perp when we were arrested them. And it was a white guy. Right. And in the past, they had stolen a car.

We got into a car chase. It was an arrest in Long Island and the gas station. And they were like, yeah, Bobby Lederger went up to the white girl. And there was a black guy passenger in the car. And there was supposedly a white girl in the back seat. And said, that's what you get for dating a black guy, the end guy. Yeah, yeah. But so odd is that the white girl on scene was dawned, the marshal, who was in my car during this.

But internal affairs didn't want to hear that, but they were using that scenario, that incident. But what's more strange is that one of the guys, the marshals, tased the perp, who was getting arrested. So if you would have pulled that taser incident report, you would know the full investigation of that what it was. So you could see all the players there, but they didn't. Right. So they came out and they were like, yeah, we hear that he says the N-word at parties, you know, we're out at bars with him and it makes us feel uncomfortable now and we have to tell you this now because it's so bad. Because it took us a year to come up with this. Longer. Yeah, it's going on for years, but yeah. But then they started shooting themselves in the foot because then the supervisor

goes, yeah, I think he does say the N-word. Well, you're a supervisor. Why didn't you report me instantly when you heard that. Right. So you're a dereliction of duty. These other guys are not supervised, they're investigators. So they'll play that. So they investigate me and they're like, you're a racist. Then they said one of my sources of information, an informant, was married to my wife and

that's why he's my informant. And what? Yeah. One of your informants was married to your wife? This is what the bad actor said about me. that I was associated with a felon and he and I owned a gym together and that same guy is my informant

and prior to that he had been married not when you said married no this was a story they made up okay that he was married to my wife so your current wife he so your current wife was his ex-wife correct okay yeah all lie totally right and you would think that would be easily easily discounted you know

oh no no they were questioned me about that. Everything and they were like, you let your informant live at your house. He was married to your wife. They're having sex. I'm like this internal affairs. These are my own people asking me these questions. What are you trying to get at? So it's all lies. And you can easily find it. The best is that they said, I owned a gym with him. I don't go to the gym. Right. You know, I'm like, look it up. Do these reports. There's no financial gains here. Nothing lies that people were making about me. Other cops were lying about me, but we're not going to go after them. Right. And that's really the culture now, isn't it? You could basically lie blatantly

a lie and accuse people. And then when you find out that that's untrue, nothing happens to a person that lies. Nothing at all. And now, what if a famous quote we would say to people when we were investigating to a fugitive and you find and like, oh, we're going to charge you with harboring a fugitive, aiding and abetting, and lying to law enforcement. If you lie to me, I'm a federal agency. You go to jail for five years. Right. But what about these task force officers who were deputized that are lying to internal affairs so about another government official? Nothing ever happens. I mean, these people should have been arrested. Right. In charge, but no. And internal affairs would just turn around and be like, well, we're just, we're going to investigate the accusation that's

brought forth. But it's a lie. Right. And we've told you that. So this goes on, and I completely deny everything and there's no evidence to show I do to anything but some people from in from the marshal service the internal affairs investigates it and then they push it forward and they write up their report and they cherry-picked the words right and it's all selective and opinionated and then we have what's called a proposing official this person turns around and says I don't believe Bobby ledger I believe these four to five other people that you are a racist and you use the N-word, hundreds to thousands of times a day. Even though the only people saying you do it are these four guys that I have. Four bad actors that are originally named in the

complaint of sexual harassment. And even though you have outstanding evaluations, you have awards and you, you know, you work with a most diversified group of people and there's no complaints at all about you, nothing ever brought up. You don't have any complaints from any people you're arrested, anybody in the public, nothing. We believe them. You're a liar and we're going to fire you. And so this was in 2017. I was proposed removal. I had to hire a lawyer because we have no union and we have some silly association, the federal law enforcement enforcement officers Association. It's a joke. And I have a private attorney. Of course, you're a lot of money. Right. And I go before this deciding official now. We have like two months to prepare. I collected

hundreds of letters of support. My background was perfect. And I go before this woman who's a chief and plead my case to her and present evidence of those people being racist and sexist and degrading and lying about me. But what's so strange is that before I get to do that and sit down with her, the day before she oddly gets a phone call from a civilian who wants to report to her that I steal cell phones from people I arrest and I gave her one and that I'm a bad person. Okay.

It's very confusing, right? So this woman was the ex-girlfriend of one of the guys I worked with in the task force who was friends with these bad actors in the task force, rode a motorcycle with them. Well, somebody, one of those men, gave her their name and phone number to the deciding official

which is all secret this is all private which should tell you something's wrong right right off the bat and then that I stole a cell phone and gave it to her so you're in possession of stolen property right does she have a cell phone

does she provide the cell phone well this is even better that deciding official tells us and my lawyer is like you have to start and you have to report that to internal affairs right so now I have a new internal affairs investigation on me while I'm getting proposed to be fired right and uh now we move forward towards our hearing talk to her for a few hours and the woman is just blown away like she can

see it yeah she's like this is pure retaliation this is horrible so do are you allowed to present witnesses or you just no it's just me and her with my lawyer couldn't show up and say this is what's No, but Dawn wrote a letter in support of me. That's the best you can do is that we have letters of support to refute that. And she read everyone. She listened to me. And she just asked for some additional supporting documents that my lawyer provided. But keep in mind, I'm being proposed to be fired. Right. Which is a big deal for a federal agent. Yeah, a federal agent to be fired. I lost my gun, my badge, everything, but I still had my title and I have to go to work every day in administrative roles while I'm being like waiting yeah so um this is in 2017 and now we leave

and it was on good Friday and she when we left the lady was like have a happy Easter I knew I was going to win yeah and that she was like a week later and she found she cleared me of everything it was unsubstantiated but keep in mind I don't get my attorney fee money back right I don't get any personal money I spent nothing. You don't get nothing back, you know, it's just stress on you. And now I have an open internal affairs investigation for supposedly given this woman a cell phone. So now I have IA looking at me again after I just got cleared. Cleared.

So that goes now, that's April 2017. Are you starting, I'm sorry, I hate to interrupt. No, please. Are you starting to feel like, like this isn't going to work? Like, they already know this might not work, but we're going to keep throwing stuff until we get rid of this guy. Like at this point, it's like, okay, so at this point, these guys are just going to continue to hound me until they get rid of me. Well, are you feeling like that? Like, I mean, look, they've already lied this investigation.

You know what? Throw another one at him. Throw another one at him. Throw another one. Like, something will stick eventually. It got to that point a year or so later. And I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a scholar, and maybe I'm too stupid to realize what was going on.

And I'm very shocked, like, how could you do this to me, knowing that I have my chief and my marshal and everybody's supporting me? Even other people from the task force are like, this is crazy what's happening. And I'm still in my position, a power of being the supervisor at a warrant squad. And keep in mind, well, all this is going on. I have some of the biggest cases of the world I'm working. I'm part of the investigation, arrest, extradition, and trial of El Chapo. Okay.

So my name is right there on the paper as being a supervisor on this investigation. With other marshals I worked with, with the DEA out in Long Island, huge. And it's happening in Brooklyn. As I'm being investigated, this is going on. So I'm under investigation. It lingers for two years. Not until April 2019, do I get a notice from Internal Affairs that they want to talk to me? it's like you've got to be kidding me this is this has been going on forever right so you're thinking

nothing's going to happen that they would have just dismissed it right as that's happening I also arrest a u.s. marshals top 15 it's like an equivalent to a FBI top 10 right this guy Andre nevesant wanted in Brooklyn on the marshals top 15 for a decade was on America's most wanted with that John Walsh. Yeah, yeah. And he murdered his sister and his girlfriend. So, so many people worked that case. They stepped all over it. It was a disaster. I come in and we get a teletype that his FBI number is hitting in Connecticut. But what does that mean? That he was fingerprinted and it comes back to his match, his fingerprints matched this. FBI number, but the name and the date of birth aren't the same. So Bridgeford, Connecticut

let them go. They let them go. They don't follow up. So we come into work the next day and I got to teletype and I'm reading over it and I asked one of my analysts to call up there to find out. And we go back and forth, we're like, can you share a picture with us? So we're like, holy shit, this is the perp. This is the guy. So now I have to make a couple phone calls. People like, nah, there's no way, he's in Trinidad, he's dead, he's that. It's his fingerprints. It's him. It's solid. So now we're trying to do some due diligence because of the different A.K.A.s and that. So now my... It's not hard to get a DM of... It's not. Yeah, it's not. So it wound up being like a traffic violation. And so at Bridgeport,

PD, we start working well with them and they're giving us information, sharing photos, information on the car. And I go in and my chief now is working with a couple of the... other supervisors and they're planning the trial security of El Chapo. So I walk in and I'm like, hey, we're going to arrest a top 15. And he just laughed. He's like, yeah, okay, whatever. Meanwhile, I just got done working El Chapo with the extradition and I'm under investigate criminal investigation.

Right. So within an hour I had set it all up with guys up in Connecticut, coordinate everything and they were sitting outside his house and they're calling me and they're sending me video and photos of our guy sitting on his porch. But the marshal was like, hey, we're waiting for some backup. You know, this guy's a major player. You know, we kill two people. His sister and a girlfriend. And he knows he's going to go to jail for the rest of his life. Yeah. He may very well put up a fight. But he's got away with it so many times. He's been on the run. But he's I'm like he's wanted out of Brooklyn and he's in Bridgeport. So within an hour, they call me

up, send me a photo. They're like, we arrested him. And I got the deputy marshal up there. He's like, thank you. You just made my career. I arrested a top 15. I'm like, yeah, no problem. Not looking for any anything. I did my job. So I go in and I tell my chief and he's like, I can't believe this.

That year, our district, East and New York as district of the year for being one of the largest districts in the age, eighth largest district in the nation for the work we did with El Chapo and the arrest of this top 15. Right. Because of me. Right. But no crap. I'm like, yeah, and whatever, you did your job. And I'm under criminal investigation. So now I go after that, the same guy from the marshal's headquarters who made the decision

to investigate me, to investigate themselves, the task force, this guy comes to Brooklyn a day or two after we arrest the top 15 because he wants to walk through the courthouse to see what's going to go on with the El Chapo trial. So he's an executive. He's like the number two guy of the Marshal Service. So he comes in, sees me, he gives me the typical handshake and, you know, the street hug. Right. You know, like he's proud of me and all that.

But never congratulates or thanks me for doing a job well done. Right. Because he's stabbing me right in the back as everything's going on. So there I have my opportunity to call him out. This is the number two guy at a martial service. Right. So I'm not a coward, you know, I'll do whatever you want. We can talk.

We can debate. We can fist fight. we can all I'll do it all right so this guy is just a regular deputy just like me he came up through the ranks you know it's just that he he took all the test and he transferred from where he was now back pedal he was from New Hampshire and the person who investigated the office culture case was from New Hampshire okay so they all know each other but this guy the number two guy he's now running the Marshal Service totally forgot where he came from Right.

So I'm like, you know, you're a real, you really suck, man. I go, you know what they're doing to me and you're letting this happen. He's like, we're just going with what internal affairs is investigating, you know, whatever it comes, whatever accusations are made, we have to investigate. But you initiated the investigation. You created this and now it just snowballed out of control. And because you want to protect your congressally funded task force because, Because if Congress hears about this or the public hears about this, you're going to look like

a real piece of garbage because you let sexual harassment take place here and you didn't defend or protect one of your own. You went against your own to say that we were wrong and look what we did when our own were wrong we got rid of them. When the other people, the outsiders were wrong but you didn't want to have that political battle with outside law enforcement. Right. It's silly, but it's true.

it happens so now I just do this big arrest I'm under IA now I get noticed that they want to talk to me so finally now I have to go to headquarters with my own private attorney again again right so now I go there and I'm summoned to be there for two days two days of investigative against me and it's stemmed and it's a whole list of things just because of a phone call from a woman that's how it started that's how it started that's how it started and that was in the middle of the interviews in the very beginning they asked me if I was a racist if I used the N word so my lawyer's enjoying this like that was already investigated and closed what are you doing you know you're harassing them you're retaliating so we put it on the record it was there then they

said um they asked me about the man who started started all this. So we're like, this has already been asked and answered. It's already done. What are we doing here? So then I went in and said, one of the deputies that worked for me years ago got pulled over in New Jersey for speeding. And he got a ticket. I'm like, okay. They're like, we have a text chain of you two talking and you tell them like, all right, well, just go take care of it. Right. Did you, you called the New Jersey State Police and fixed the ticket? I'm like, that's what you get in North this day. So they said I misuse my power to get a ticket fix, which I didn't.

And that deputy admitted it saying I didn't do anything. But still, they use my... They just throw enough at you. But that was one thing. That was abuse of power. Then they went in and said, I stole a cell phone that they have a photo of it, but they don't have the cell phone. Then that lady said, I gave... She had a shotgun and I gave her shotgun bullets.

but they don't have any of that. And now she has a criminal history. She's been arrested before, so she shouldn't be in possession of a gun. She said, I stole a camcorder and gave it to her. But they had a pitcher to camp quarter that had the serial numbers on there. But they didn't run it.

We don't know what that is. Right. We don't know if that was stolen. Well, it gets even better. I was going to say, first of all, she's admitting that she's a felon in possession of a firearm. That's three year mandatory minimum. In New York. In New York.

I was just like federally, that's... But that's New York. It's the worst state in the world to get charged with a gun crime. You know, you're going in. But they don't care. Because it's against me, Bobby Lettinger. Right. Then she just adds more to it and it gets better. I'm a drug dealer.

I'm a drug addict. I sell drugs. I steal drugs from the evidence locker. I steal money from the evidence locker. I sell Social Security numbers to her for fake. So me and her collusion for with social security numbers to people. I filed for bankruptcy which destroys your security clearance if I ever did that. Right.

I am a bouncer at a bar. I'm five foot six, 160 pounds. Right. I'm bouncer at a bar. I don't fight, you know. I cheat on my wife. My wife cheats on me. I misuse my government vehicle.

I... You dislike you? You dislike, you don't like children or small animals. Nothing, all that stuff. But yet I would hang out with this woman with her then boyfriend when we were working all together. We went out to dinners, restaurants, bars, but all of a sudden this. But can't provide any evidence on any of this stuff.

So the Marshal Service takes it and runs with it. And they're going more and more and asking me all these questions. They never give me a drug test. They never do an inventory of the evidence line. They don't want anything that doesn't support their version of the events. But why not? Why wouldn't you want to know the truth? Why wouldn't you want to be like, wow, this guy is getting screwed here?

And he's another marshal. We're going to investigate one of our own. That's what it really comes down. And we're going to destroy him. Right. love working with me or for me I don't have any complaints against me why wouldn't you want me to be cleared why wouldn't you want to find a truth so as I'm sitting there with internal affairs I'm hoping you know that do you had do

you know the answer that I'm still looking for a man trying to think of one well I think it's funny as I have people ask me and they're like who is Bobby Lettinger like who am I that this that you came at me so hard that you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to investigate me. I mean, it got so bad. We lived in Long Island, New York. I had a beautiful house. I had a mother and daughter house on a half acre of land. Nice, big pool in the backyard. I would have parties at my house every year for all the guys and girls I worked with friends, family. And I had to work in Brooklyn. And I was a good hour or so from home. And my wife was home alone. My mother-in-law lived next door. And the nature

would tell my wife and my mother-in-law that there's undercover cops sitting on the block. And then we were getting screws, putting our tires. They were coming on our property and putting stuff in our cars. We were getting pulled over. All of this started because you told a couple of fraternity guys stop bullying this chick. 100%. And it's a fact. That's why it started.

It's a fact it all came out because those same men who were bullying her and hit. her and harassed her. They omit it in their own statements that I violated the blue wall. I went against them. I believed her over them. And they omit it. And the internal affair saw it. And in my own people, my own leadership, read it, saw it. And they knew people were coming after me. So now these people put my family in life jeopardy. They put my wife in fear. So while this is all going on, my wife's like, I want out of here. We turn a around, snap at a finger, and we sell our house in Long Island. And I'm still working and she works. I have a couple of years until I can retire. My family is good. We have a condo in Queens.

So me and my wife are staying there. My mother and Laura had to go stay with another family member. And then we wound up buying a house in Florida while we're still working. So my wife's like, that's it. She talks to her boss. He finds out what's going on. on. People are like, this is insane. This can't be happening. And it's like the movie Copeland. You know, it's a vestus alone where all the dirty cops are, yeah, live in one neighborhood. So we're like, no, it's happening, you know. And even my own chief just couldn't believe it. And they were like, what do you do? Like, how do you protect, how do I protect my wife? Right. What do I do? You know, you hear all these people, you know, and I, not to diminish anybody or, or anything,

But how many times you hear people, men, you know, you mess with my family, I'll kill you. Right. Really? Really? You're going to do that? You're not going to do it. Everybody talks a big game. I had to do something.

And the only way to protect my wife was to leave the state. And that's what we did. And I stayed in New York and I would take leave and go back and forth to visit with her in Florida. She worked from home now in Florida with her company out of New York, which was great. They helped us out a lot. And now this is in 2019. I was going to say that I think the problem is that you you wouldn't like it's not a far leap because for you to do that because given the situation like you wouldn't think it would have gone as far as it has already gone. So the idea that it wouldn't go a step further, it would be stupid to think, oh no, they won't they won't do anything to my wife.

they won't mess with my family they won't do no no they've already continually push that bar there doesn't seem to be a limit so i i can so to say hey look let's just let's just sell let's get out of this let's let's i mean i can totally see that because i was thinking wow that's that's like you know you really that's a huge step but at this point they don't seem to be stopping so i don't see what other choice you have nobody seems to be looking out for you no one is looking out for me i granted I had the support of my own district, the people like backed me and like you're a good guy, but that goes so far. You know, I need presence, I need protection, I need money, you know, and you, what do you

do? Right. So I, that was the best thing we could did. We didn't want to do it, you know, we changed our whole lives. And the agency, the Marshal Service, knew I was doing that. I told them in internal affairs that I had to leave because you people did nothing for me. You knew they were coming after me. They told you they were coming after me.

And you did nothing. Right. And they still, to this day, you never helped me. Nothing. They have, they tell you when you're in internal affairs, you're sitting there like, well, you can call EAP, you know, the employee assistant program, you know, to vent to some lady in India that I'm feeling depressed or something. Right.

Come on. So, and I'm still working. So now we'll back up a little bit again and then I'm still in internal affairs being interviewed. So they're asking me about being a drug dealer. or stealing money. They're asking me then if I'm a bouncer. They're asking me if I fix tickets. Now they want to see my cell phone. The government cell phone, here you go. They take it, they bring it in the back. It's gone for a couple hours. So they're downloading it. They come back and they had a folder. And they open up their folder. They give me back my cell phone,

government cell phone. And they're showing me pictures of a naked playboy model. I'm like, okay. They're like, do you know who this is? Like, yeah, I know her very well. And she was a fugitive that we arrested. Right. So I'm like, okay. So internal affairs is blown away.

They're like, she's a fugitive? I'm like, yeah. I go, it was all over the news. It's a big thing. I go, it was a Hague act. She kidnapped her daughter from the husband who was in France. She was from Vietnam. And they issued a warrant for her.

We arrested her the next day trying to flee the country with the daughter and brought her in. I said we photographed everything that she had. She was an international playboy model, a DJ. And I'm like, I took pictures of the Playboy book for identity and evidence. Here's all her clothes. Here's all her jewelry. Here's her five cell phones, a laptops.

Here's everything, everything we have. Here's all the emails from the U.S. attorney saying thank you for all that information. Right. So it's a case file. It's a case file. 100%. 100%. And it's all there. The emails are there. No, you should have deleted those pictures. I'm like, no, you can't. It was on a work phone. It's legit. It's evidence. I said it's saved in the cloud. You can't get rid of that anymore because you people and the government created this cloud to keep it. And plus, everybody knows about it. No, we think you kept those photos for self-gratification.

That's a crime, you know, in the martial service. Okay. Yeah. It's self-gratification. So the lady who's saying that to me, I just assumed that she was jealous because she did not look like the Playboy model, so that was a personal hit toward me. I'm like, I'm married. I've been married for 25 years.

My wife is absolutely gorgeous and this is the year of the internet. Right. I don't need to take pictures of a Playboy book when I can just go on the internet and find whatever you want. This is what we're dealing with. These are grown adults were coming up with these disinformation. So that was thrown out against me too. Then I was at one point being looked at or so-called groomed to be appointed as the U.S.

Marshal in Eastern New York, Brooklyn under President Trump. So like I had people above me saying, you should put in your application to become a President appointee while I'm being criminally investigated while that's going on and then because my background is so well and then I have such a great relationship with other people that are endorsing me but I have my own agency trying to put me in jail right but I have powerful people saying you should be in charge this is it's a true tale of two cities this whole story it's it's yeah so I put in I'm like this is great so while they're investigating me criminally they're investigating me also to be appointed. So that's all going on. So now we move forward into

2020. And I'm still lingering under internal affairs. I've been interviewed by some people under the Trump administration for an appointment. Right. So just can't believe it. And, At this point, my wife is totally disgusted with the government to no end. So. What a waste of money so far? They just, it's just, it's an embarrassment. It's a shame like, and let's, I, I,

what is it, proudly can say that the American taxpayers got their money out of me. Right. I worked my ass off every day. So when now we're in 2020, this is the year I'm eligible to retire to have 25 years in the Marshal Service. It's good. I came on June 95.

I can retire June 2020. So I think it was in February or February, March, I put in to retire, that I want to retire at the end of June 2020 because all the, I just went out. Yeah. Well, while I put in to be to request that I can retire in June 2020, I am now hit with another proposed removal from everything in internal affairs did to me. And of course, it's abuse of power,

failure to supervise, lack of candor, misuse of my government vehicle, my phone, all these, anything you can throw on there. So I have my lawyer again. We have to write up a rebuttal. I collect more letters than the first case. All my awards again. being part of the arrest with El Chapo and Neveson, great things. So we go now to headquarters

to speak with the deciding official and this lady actually knows me, personally knows me, she was my class advisor. We even had e-mail to exchange that she knew what was going on at the task force in Long Island of how I was protecting Dawn and that it was all messed up. Right. But she forgot that. So we sit down and talk to her. She only talked to me for about 15 minutes. So we knew she made up her mind.

She was going to fire me. And I sat there and I begged. I go, listen, I'm just going to retire. I want to retire June. I can retire in June. It'll have 25 years, you know, leave me alone. So like I said, it's the end of February 2020. You know what just kicked off?

February 2020? Worldwide pandemic. Oh, yeah. We're shut down. man that's it the government is shut down everybody in headquarters is teleworking they're at home i think that would help you out i we all thought it would help me out i'm like i got i can't win this fight anymore so april april 17th 2020 is uh friday i get an email from human resources martial service headquarters that I am awarded retirement June 30th, 2020. I can retire in June 30th, 2020. Perfect.

I'm in Florida. I'm using up my annual leave and sick leave because I only have a few months left. Right. I have more time in my hand to use up than time left on a job. Yes. So that was April 17, 2020 of Friday. day, April 20th, 2020, 4 o'clock, my chief calls me, you're fired. They terminated you. Holy shit. Just like that, snap of the finger. And I just sat there. And I was just, I couldn't believe it. And then I could believe it. And I'm like, all right, this is a joke, you know. Worldwide pandemic, we're shut down. So I read what they write. And this lady who knew me, she's like, the Marshal Service leadership doesn't have the confidence in you

to perform at a satisfactory level. I respond back. I too don't have the confidence to respond at a satisfactory level, but I've always performed at an outstanding level for the last 20 years and you all signed off on it,

it was in my record. You don't even know what my evaluations are. Right. I'm above what you want me to be. And the best one was that the naked pictures of the playboy model. I find that you did keep these pictures for self-gratification. Where's your evidence on?

You can never prove that. I've never printed them. They weren't on the, there was nothing to get, like it was insane. But this is what they come up with. So we then file an appeal with what's called the Merit System Protection Board. It's a joke. It's a kangaroo court. that's created by the government.

It's supposed to be more for the employee, but it's totally turned tides and it's more for the government. And what happens is a guy like me doesn't fight them. You don't go up against the government. You don't have the money to do it. You have to pay for lawyers. I now am fighting them,

and I'm very fortunate. I have the National Police Defense Foundation backing me over the Marshal Service and they created a legal defense fund to help pay my legal fees. Nice. My case is sitting and it's going to take a while. It takes years because it goes before a quorum, a three-panel quorum.

Right. And they were all appointed by the president. So Biden just last year appointed three of them. One already resigned. So now there's only two. It's like you just can't. Right. So that comes 2020 and what do you do? I got no job. I lost everything. I lost my salary. I lost my

pension. I lost my medical benefits. Everything. Everything is gone. And so for about a week, you know, I sat in a corner crying, depressed, feeling shame and embarrassment. And my wife was like, what do we that's it let's go you know and um i did some great things man i i had to go i went on unemployment at a new york and um i did that for several months and then i she's like you got we got to get a job you got to get something but it's the pandemic i'm screwed what you doing yeah what job what i put it in for home depot i couldn't even get that yeah and you know, down where I am, I put in and I became a supervisor at a pre-planned retirement center. And it was pretty, it's well off place, but it was horrible, you know, getting $25 an hour, you know.

But I had to do somebody, they gave me benefits, you know, so I had to have it. But I was really lucky too because I'm a veteran and the VA here in Florida was great, you know, so I had medical protection there. my wife had medical protection from her company they were helping um then i started searching around a little bit more and i wound up finding a good job through linkedin which pushing my story out there right and um i now currently work as a security consultant for a non-profit organization international i do a lot of traveling it's great um the organization supports the hell out of me for what I did and they can't believe it.

But also what happened during all this time is I connected with some great people on LinkedIn. LinkedIn was great for me. For me. I didn't do Facebook or any of the other social media. And I met this one guy who's an FBI agent, lawyer, who got jammed up. They went after him.

and he's fighting them as well he put me in touch with another FBI agent who um resigned before they could fire him and he waited a few years until he reached a certain age and he went back and got a government job so i connected with that guy and he was telling me about it and i'm like i can't do that he's like you have over 20 years as federal law enforcement right And he goes, you're over the age of 50 now. Because you have seven years in the Navy. I was terminated with 24 years and 10 months. Right.

Yeah. If that's not personal retaliation, you can't. And everybody knew it. So this guy educated me and gave me the policies and the programs to follow. And I like saying I used the government against the government. Right. And I got my retirement. Okay.

So I beat them at their own game. And I got my full 32 years retirement, law enforcement, everything. I have my medical benefits. And they give you a Social Security supplement to the age of 57. I mean, what did you do? Go get another job and work for two months? Yeah. I don't want to go into great.

Okay, okay. I understand. That's fine. It's fine. Because I'm writing a book. And it's going to be in the book. But you know what? Yes.

Yes. But you don't know what I did or how long I did it. But it's amazing. And it's what you do to protect your family and yourself. And, you know, you can't let them get to you. And that's like the whole thing in my story is, you know, don't give up. Don't ever give up. Don't give in.

Don't let the bad actors take you down. You know, and that's what I try to put out there, even when they come at you with things, you know, and the lies that people say about you and the false accusations and it just, it sucked, but, you know, you fight through it. And now you can, you know, I can look at these people right in the eye and know that they're, you know, they're garbage, you know, and I'm not impressed by them. You know, the government lawyers are not anything. They're still government lawyers if you were that good you'd be in a private sector right right i always say that like you don't get to the top of your field and end up working for the bureau of prison like you know like the dot

from the doctors all the way down like that's just not how it works no so um yeah it's it's uh i was going to say there's a guy i interviewed who runs a youtube channel i should put you in touch with him he'd probably be interested in your story too because he um he actually uh you know Wade, remember the guy that it was a self-defense, well, self-defense, but it was staying your ground where he was attacked in his own home by a guy and shot him, you know, but he was attacked. The guy was drunk. They'd both been drinking. The guy was drunk. He attacked him multiple times. He told other people he was going to kill him. And then he attacked him and Wade shot him. And they arrested Wade. He got out. He's like, I was in my own house. You know,

and this guy attacked me over and over again. You can see that I've been hit. You can see that, like, the whole thing and it was really just one detective that had she was brand new detective first case she worked decided she wanted to to get him and they fought it um he pulled a hundred thousand dollars out of his retirement to fight the case and it took like two years and the only reason it didn't go forward they didn't go forward with it is because a new district attorney came in and his lawyer went in and said i want to sit down with you just show you the evidence and he said and he told wade look at the risk because we're laying out our whole case and they laid out the whole case and showed it to him and the guy was like oh yeah yeah i'm dropping

this okay but yet you know it's you know they the other you know they pad the file they they hire somebody to come up with to come up with a forensic report that supports their version they and i've done a lot of i don't know if you know much about me but i've written a bunch of stories right and I have true crime stories. And, you know, I have a guy who, like, literally they, the FBI continually investigated this one person and asked, they patted the file with all of these people that said, he did it, he did it, he did it, he did it, he did it. So by the time it's done, you've got 30 people, 28 of which said he did it, you know,

but out of almost all of those, they can. can't really tell you who told them that. And it all really stems from one guy telling this guy, who tells this guy who tells this guy. And so this guy talks to the FBI and says, yeah, yeah, this is what I've heard. But it all really comes from one guy. Of course. You know, and then when you're completely done, it's like it does look overwhelming. And if you were to go to trial, it would seem overwhelming because all these people

would get on the stand and say, yeah, this is what he did. You know, but really, if you look at it, it's like, okay, well, you padded the file. Like, you only investigated people that supported your version of the story. You're a narrative. Yeah, your narrative. So why didn't you, matter of fact, they actually gave people, people, lie detector tests until they came up with their version. And then when they came up with their version, they stopped giving it.

They just took the thing. Okay, did you, did you give them a lie detector test on that version? Well, no, because we knew, we knew that was the version that we wanted to go with. So why would we give them a lie detector test? Well, that, you know. It's me, you bring that up about the lie detector test. and you look at like something like the Marshal Service and you wonder like what makes it,

what's happening today with law enforcement? And I'm sorry, I jump around a little bit, but the Marshal Service does not do polygraphs. They don't lie detector, new employees, or even their staff. Why not? Right. Why wouldn't you raise the standards to have the best people out there? Instead, you lower the standards.

You're doing away with some of the fit requirements, the education. Right. Why wouldn't you want the best people? your weapons qualls and it's amazing and it all come down to like the way the culture is today you know current events and it's the shame I mean I was watching something a few days ago on ESPN and they were showing a story of Whitney Houston singing the national anthem in 1991 right what happened today that now everybody's a racist you know and that's the thing to call out there well you're white you're a racist everybody's white supremacy really

And what happened? Because she came out, beautiful woman, she's wearing sweats. She wasn't dolled up in a gown or anything and she sang the national anthem. The best anybody's ever heard it. And when I went through what I went through and to see that they pulled the race card against me to come at me. They just come out left field. Why?

You never saw that coming at all? The best they said to me they were like, I was such a racist. a racist um and i i didn't have and you know i don't even know the proper language to use anymore because you don't know what to say but they're like you don't have black people at your house like we had dozens to picture i'm like i have to prove that i had black people at my house my own family members are married to someone of color or anything right and i have to prove this and i had a a guy worked with big guy and we're the same age same exact age and black guy from Queens and we're great friends and he lives in California now

retired he wrote one of the best letters for me ever and he goes off on the letter saying you know I'm I'm proud of the Marshal Service for investigating racism and doing what you're doing but you got the wrong guy right why don't you ask me and I'll tell you who the racists are but this is how you're going to do it yeah they don't want to hear that. No, they don't. And it's a shame and you want to hear the truth. And then just the girl Dawn, I defended, she's defending me today.

Is she still in the marshals? No, she retired and what's odd is that during her last year or two, they were going after her and making accusations like the same bad actors that she complained about, made complaints about her that she took her dog to work. She misused her government car, like all the petty-ass things. And the same lady that decided to fire me made a decision to suspend Dawn. So then she filed an EEO and they settled with her because they knew the deciding official was showing favoritism toward the TOS Force.

So Dawn settled her EEO. They gave her back all her lost days. they promoted her and they gave her money but you still came after me right when the the original thing was I defended dawn you know for what it was and it was all pure retaliation but they pile it on it's just like you said they pad the folder they pad the case and they put so much in there and they weren't even complaints against you like you're investigating you're finding stuff to investigate well I don't understand like they like the racism thing like they have your phone right like there's text messages there's like if i was so blatant and

i'm saying this hundreds of times a day then i certainly would have said it in a text i certainly would have thrown it into an email i certainly would have like nothing right no nothing at all but here well here's the conversation you and i just had now for the last hour or so it's it's the most you're going to speak almost in a week it's as long as we spoke and there's been hundreds of thousands of words we said maybe right not once did we say the n-word right But I say it all day long. And I, you know, I can hold my head up, you know, like this, you got me, you know. And my dad says it and I get what he's saying and it's a shame that he thinks like that.

There he goes, even when you win, you lose because all the money I've lost over the years are going through this and somebody just called me the other day looking for help and he's like, well, how much did your lawyers cost? I'm like more than your salary. Yeah. But you can't ask those questions. You know, everybody has a different amount. But if that's what you're worried about to fight to prove yourself, don't call me because

you're going to spend a lot of money to fix this. Well, you know, like I told you about that guy, Wade, he spent over $100,000. What if he didn't have it? You don't have it. You don't have it. You don't have it. You don't have it. Nobody has it. That's your life investments or whatever. What's I going to do, remortgage

my house to pay for my attorneys? That's why the government got you. You can't. It's impossible. You can't go take out a loan. Yeah, especially not if you were to go to the bank and say, oh, I need it for my legal fees. They'd be like, you're going through something. We're not interested in being a part of. Well, especially during a pandemic. Oh, yeah. There's no jobs out there to get a job to pay anything back. Right. So that's where they think that you can, they can win. And they do and they intimidate you and you're afraid of them of what? You know, when you sit down and you start talking to these people, it's not impressive. You know, they're lawyer.

Like we said, they're government lawyers. Listen, there's some U.S. attorneys out there that are unbelievable and they're very comfortable just staying in the position that they're in because they have a family and it's a nine to five job. Right. You know, but you go to the private sector, you're putting in 20 hours a day, you know, to make 18 million a year. so you're going to you're going to work hard yeah so you're waiting you're you're waiting for this you're waiting for your um it's not a trial it's it's an appeal it's an appeal you're waiting for the appeal to go through yeah and what I'm waiting for that is that my appeal is to get my

marshal's retirement right and to get my um back pay for the two plus years I've lost and to get attorney fees and then that's it okay in the meantime I'm I work I'm I'm I'm currently writing a book right um putting it all out there you know and um living in Florida man you know all right um um do you have anything else no no you have Anything else? No, you got anything? No. One thing that I would think would be interesting if you can talk about it, like the

El Chapo stuff or like the catching the guy on like the top 15 lists in the marshals, like the story about that, it can be like a 10-minute version, five-minute version, whatever. I can go into that too and there's another thing too more to add to my case which makes it insane too is that in August 2014 we were involved in a shooting, arrest of a shooting of a guy named Oswald Lewis in Queens and it was a drug case out of Virginia and tracked the phone and it was like 11 o'clock at night a house chopped up into apartments we knock on the front door to the owner of the house it's like no he lives in the back so we're there and um there about eight marshals there and about eight 10 NYPD guys there we surround a house we're knock on the door, nothing. You hit a TV, we take the door. This guy goes into the back of the

makeshift apartment and barricades himself into his bedroom. And so we start making entry. And me and this one other woman I worked with, we didn't even get into the door, into the door yet. We were on the frame of the door. And the perp puts his hand out and start shooting at us and now there's six marshals in this little place like and you know they start returning fire and um you can feel you know it's hard to say but you can feel the bullets going past your head you can feel it you know the fear and the stress and anxiety and um so some of the marshals wound up when he put his hand out they shot his hand and shot the gun and then the perp went and grabbed another gun and started shooting out the window where the NYPD cops were outside. So during

the, you know, he finally comes out, he surrenders, we arrest him. And, uh, that's going to be bad. I was going to say, like, you know, after shooting to the cops, I think I'd rather just go ahead because you're about to spend the rest of your life in prison. No, this gets better. This gets better. So we get them, we put them, we are, we have EMS there and everything on scene within seconds. And it's New York, you know, everything. everybody's coming. So we take him to the hospital and now he's getting charged with, you know, attempted murder, federal agents and everything. Well, of course, in the courts, you know, it starts getting dwindled down. They're like, yeah, assault, you know, use of a firearm. We're like,

it's felony for Z. Like, what do you do? So he defends himself in trial. So while he's, but before the trial, NYPD talks with him. Now he's going to start talking. They hit him with a homicide in New York. He's got a drug case out of Virginia and then he's got the shooting at us. Right. So right now he's in jail for 40-something years. Right. Okay. So while he's in there, during now I'm under internal affairs investigations, he's making all these accusations out. It was police brutality. You didn't even get in the room before he started shooting. No, but we were handcuffed and we were beating him up, calling him the N-word. Right. Everything. There's hundreds of people there watching this, including

he amassed neighbors other body cams everything right so this goes on and the actual the actual one of the actual marshals who shot him is

not a white guy right I'll leave it like that he's not a white guy he shot him the perfect they they remove him from the complaint and then they remove the Spanish female from the complaint, then they remove one or two other people from the complaint. So it's down to you.

It's down to five people on a complaint that are white on the complaint. While I'm being investigated by internal affairs, it's all coming down. So now the U.S. Attorney's Office is representing us because it was in the line of duty that we did this. It was a case. So now the U.S. Attorney's Office has to rehabilitate my reputation because I was fired by the Marshal Service, which works for the Department of Justice, just like the U.S. Attorney's Office works for the Department of Justice. Right. So they're like, how do we do this?

Meanwhile, the U.S. Attorney's Office, we know you're a great guy. So this is all going. I'm like, yeah, let's look what I did because they've already known. It's like they pull up and they're like, well, he's part of the whole investigation, extradition, trial of El Chapo in eastern New York, where we had the biggest criminal in our lifetime. there. Right. And it's like we don't know what to do. And then I put on there too about the top 15 fugitive Andre Neverson. You know, it was one of the most high high profiled cases for the

Marshal Service for years. It was, you know, on America's Most Wanted several times and they've interviewed several marshals that were work in that case. Right. And then here it is, I, Bobby Lettinger working with an analyst who worked with me, we tracked down and locate this guy and evidence and all these great people from the task force that worked on that case. Right. Didn't arrest them. It was us. So, you know, that all went on, but now to go to go backwards to add to it, that person, the perp, Oswald Lewis, who made the complaint against me and other marshals of police brutality and racism that was finally dismissed.

But it was going to go forward in Eastern New York as a trial against us, that he was suing us while he's in jail. And it's like, you can't make this stuff up, what was going on. And this is all in my life. This is my life for almost five years of complete hell.

And people are like, how did you? And only a couple of people said, I would have killed myself to go through what you're going through. And you're like, no, I'm not going to kill myself. You know, it's almost like it's like a badge of honor, you know, when I'm accused of all these things from people. And I almost try to simulate it to those people who made all these accusations against me are like stolen valor. Right. You know, they've done nothing, you know, and they have to come take me down. to get something and you know these people that i worked with that did all these bad things

you know they they wear the t-shirt of the job i did right you know and i give my dad my t-shirts because he's proud of me and not them you because i'm like a model prisoner i'm just working like 12, 13 hours a day coming back to the center. I'm like going to church on Sundays every Sunday. During that time, like a few months prior to this, like probably July, August or so, I meet a chick at church. And we kind of start talking just friendly, innocently enough, just talking at church. She's not from the female work release center.

She's not whatever. She's a free world chick that, as it turns out, as a teacher at the school attached to the church. And we're talking and it's progressing as time goes on. And, you know, obviously I'm interested in her. She's smoking hot, you know, tall, blonde chick. And, you know, she ends up becoming my girlfriend. And, you know, like, you're not trying to fuck up. Yeah, I'm not trying to fuck up.

I'm, like, literally on the straight and narrow. I'm done sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been in and out of institutions since I was 13, 14. Like, I'm done. I'm not selling anything. I'm not doing anything. I'm not even, like, thinking about. doing I'm like I'm I just want to like get my shit together and I met this chick that's awesome

you know she's a teacher like she's an awesome chick like the pastor's daughter like from the Midwest you know whatever so I'm just like on the straight and narrow and I like telling her like man these these I got these officers with me and I can't figure out why I don't know why they're messing with me this kind of comes to a head like I said like February and I'm at work one day where I'm doing the weekly business report with my manager Diego and we're going through doing our weekly business report and all of a sudden the two officers show up at work and they're like, can you come out here with us please?

I'm like, yeah. And they're like, show us where the toolbox is. I'm like, what are you talking about? They're like the toolbox where you keep your money. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I don't have a toolbox. I'm at work release, dude. I'm like, and I work here.

Like everything's provided by the shop Like show us for the tool Like where's your little station where you work And I'm like well technically like My title like I work here You can see there is a toolbox here But it's like got 10 years with the dust on it Like all right not mine

I'm like feel free to look through it I'm like there ain't no money And they're like listen I'm gonna level with you We know you're selling blues on the compound We know you're dealing And you know People are getting high on the compound

And we know it's you And I'm like I don't know who gave you that information I'm not doing shit. I'm like, if you, like, watched me, you would know I create no trouble there. I go to work, I come home. I go to work, I come home. That's it.

I'm like, I'm not doing anything wrong. I'm like, oh, that's it. And, yeah, well, we know, like, we have it on good authority that you're like, I'm like, how many times you guys ransacked my room and found nothing? Right. Now you're here, you're going to find nothing. I'm like, I'm not doing anything. Like, have you considered maybe whoever told you this? Obviously, somebody told you this.

have you considered maybe that source was wrong and they're like no no so we're like oh you think you're trying to be cute whatever come out here with us and they bring me up by the van which was parked out front and they pat me down and then like put me in the van and they're like listen you're going to pay to play or we're going to take you to jail and for those that don't know in the joint like we call it getting taken to jail going to confinement right at least in the state I don't know what they do in the feds but that's going to confinement So, I'm like, dude, I don't, like, I don't have nothing for you. So then they, like, grab my wallet.

Now, you could draw $100 a week out of your inmate account for Zoom, Zooms and Wham, Whams, or whatever you want to spend the money on. So, I feel like 90 of the 100 left. So they, like, I'm back outside the van at this point. So they pluck the 90 out of my wallet and they're like, go back in there and get us some more fucking money and you're going to jail right now. Like, if I don't know what to do, you know, I'd go in there. And I'm like, I know my boss will give me.

some money to give to them. So I go in there, we had just taken like $370 or so from a bumper job that we did for a guy, and he paid cash. So I go inside and I tell the one officer to go around and go into the shop, I needed to talk to my boss. And I'm like, dude, these guys are extorting me. Like, I need some dough to give these guys. And he's like, oh, what do you want me to do? Like, very, like, thick accent Diego had. He's going, what do you want me to do, Ryan? Like, I don't have money to give you. And I'm like, give me some. something out of the till. And so he's like, I have that cash that we just took from the bumper job. I'm like, that should be enough to get them to go away. So he gives me like the

$370 or whatever. I walk out back into the shop. And our shop was in like kind of a high crime area. So like, as I'm walking out to the shop with the dough in my hand, I'm like, wait a minute, I'm going to position this for her so he's right on a candid camera. Because we got cameras everywhere. So I, boom, I give it to this one officer right on camera. Now why don't you back it up? The officer I gave it to him. was an officer brown the other officer that's with me is a lieutenant okay named eric beau he's a lieutenant a white shirt right like anyway there's no no misidentifying them yeah it's pretty obvious what's

happening yeah and like it's pretty obvious they've been doing this because you wouldn't be this brazen as you're like first time they've been doing this and like I've told people like when I've told this story like if I was doing dirt I would have gladly paid those and been like here you go right whatever but I wasn't so I was kind of like righteously indignant about it like right like here I am trying to like actually live right and like you're shaking me down right and so I don't have like I'm make I'm not making enough to keep doing this right right so you giving me really one choice right like either I've got it well two choices

either I've got to start doing it to pay you right you know or I got to figure out another way out of this right or I guess three choices or just go to the you can go to the In the feds, it's the shoe. You can go to the hole. You can go to the hole for doing nothing. Right. I can go to the box. I got to sell the supplement the income to give them the money.

Or I've got to report them somehow and hope that it's not one of their buddies. I give them the money on camera. I walked back out with them to the van and he's like, listen, we're going to be back Monday for, this is the lieutenant telling me. We'll be back Monday for $500 more. We're going to meet you at that Benjamin Moore store right there. across the street around lunchtime better have our money basically I'm like they leave I go back inside I'm like oh my god dude and we call our boss boss the actual owner Bob and he's like you call cops the real cops right and so we call it real cops and we call our IT guy to come pull

the camera footage and shit immediately because it's on a loop it's not it's you know it gets re-recorded every two hours they said in court like when the shit went to court that like it was unclear what he gave the officer it's clearly money right But whatever. The point is, like, Seth pulled the camera footage, and then PBSO, Palmer Sheriff's Office's cop, finally comes, and that cop, like, when you realized I was on work with,

he was a complete dick, complete dick. But I'm, like, telling him what happened, and then it wasn't until, and I also called my girlfriend, and I was like, hey, baby, you need to get up here right now because I don't know what the fuck gonna happen, but, like, I want to see you if something goes down, like, get up here.

And she had just gotten off work, too, so she was just, like, threw something on, throw some yoga pants and hauled ass up, there to see me she had gotten there like probably 30 minutes after the cop and by this time I'm sitting down like writing my statement out and the cop was a dick all the way up to the point where I handed him my statement and he read it and when he read it he was like making these faces and I'm like what he was like nothing you're just you're not a dumb ass right and he's like this is like the best like the most well-written statement I've ever read in my life and I'm like

thanks and he's like well no I just like normally guys in your position and they're dumb ass and he's like, why are you in prison? I'm like, dude, they make you a person you're not normally, whatever. So then he starts being kind of cool with me and he's like, listen. Did he see the footage? You show him the footage?

Yeah, he had seen the footage, you know, and I showed it to him again once he read my statement and then now he's like, okay, I see what's going on here. The beginning footage of them looking through a toolbox and all that too. We had all that. It was on camera. Them pulling up, them walking, like we had all that. So he's like, oh,

Well, listen, PBSO probably won't touch this Unless it's like a task force thing He's like, but he's like, would you be willing to Wear a wire on these guys when they come back For the extra 500 so you can really You know, stup them and I'm like, yeah I'm like I don't know I have no snitch I never snitch on nobody But like snitching on prison guards

Fuck a prison guard I will snitch on a prison guard all day along Now maybe if they were doing bad shit for me that was for my interest, that would be different. But these guys are trying to... You're shaking me down. You're shaking me down. I'll wear a wire on those fucking assholes any day.

I'm like, yeah. So he's like, well, the FDLE might reach out Monday, like, whatever, whatever. So I'm like, okay, we leave. I leave with my girlfriend. We go get dinner. And I don't know if they're just going to arrest me right when I get into the center. They don't. I go through the whole weekend.

Everything's normal. I see her at church on Sunday. Everything was normal. What's she saying? She's just like, what? like what this is up like what do they they can't do that like this is people that haven't been in the system right you know i i always love when people that haven't been in the system say those words they can't x y z and you're just like oh honey you're a person you have no clue what

you're talking about you've watched too much tv yeah they can and they will do whatever the they want whenever the fuck they want however they want legal or not so especially with the corrupt as florida department of corrections is So, fast forward to Monday morning. I'm walking out of the center. It's 5.45 a.m. Mind you, those two, like, this is important detail. Those two prison shit eaters, they work 8 to 4.30.

I'm walking out of the work-a-lease center to go catch my bus. My first of two buses and two-hour bus ride it takes to get to my job. I'm walking out at 5.45, and as I'm, like, probably almost a block away, a white van comes up on me. And it's these two. Lieutenant Bo and Officer Brown in a state van in uniform at 545 in the fucking morning when they should not even be on shift yet. Right.

And they're like, get in the van. And I'm like, dude, oh, my God. Like, these guys are they going to go kill me and dump me in the Everglades? Like, but I really can't make a scene and say no either. So I roll with it. I'm like, hold on my phone. I got to grab my cigarettes. I grab my cigarettes.

I get in the van and we leave. and I'm like they're like we're going to give you a ride to work and I'm like you know well I tried to make them stop as many places as possible like I stopped and made them like bought a pack of cigarettes at this one store made sure I'm on camera notated in my brain what store it was and I stopped at another store I'll buy work same thing made sure I'm on camera and like I knew the owner of that store because I stopped there every day and I'm like hey you know like you need to save this footage for me so anyway they get rid of work the way it would take me two hours to get there us right so we get there and it's super early you know we're just like sitting there like

do to do playing along with them like I'm gonna get them more money but I got no money to give them right you know I'm just like waiting for one of my coworkers to get there basically so my one coworker gets there Eddie who's a great dude but he he'd come in at like seven and he would always leave early on Friday so he had no clue what happened on Friday right so he comes in like between seven and seven 30 and he didn't know what happened on Friday, so he's empty and trashed in the dumpster when he pulls up, and I'm like, Eddie, it would be cool. He's like, oh, see, you got a ride

this morning, huh? I'm like, that ain't no ride. I'm like, those are those assholes that keep messing with me. I was like, dude, they shook me down on Friday for money, blah, blah, blah. It's a long story. There's a police report underneath the desk in the office if you want to read it, but like, it's, it's fucking bad.

And he's like, gee, you know, he was a good old boy from North Carolina. He's like, that motherfucker fuck, I'm like, I need to stall them because, like, you know, FDLE and everybody was supposed to get involved He's like, all right, so I proceed to like open up the shop And like just kind of go about my day like

Hold on guys, I got to look normal And I stall as long as humanly possible I stalled for like over an hour I stall stall stall stall stall stall stall And finally the lieutenant is just like You're stalling we're gonna take your ass to jail Hold on, hold on, hold on like all right I'm done playing I go back there

Eddie is on the phone with 911 at this point And I'm like like I'm like dude they're gonna take me in whatever. Eddie's like, take my phone, talk to the dispatch. He's to go lock yourself in one of the cars. If they try to come in here, I'll scare him out of here. So, like, 15 minutes go by, and I hear Eddie start yelling. And what I didn't know is, like, they're looking around trying to find me, and they looked in like one of Eddie's things, and Eddie pulls his gun on him. And, uh, because Eddie keeps the freaking 45 in his toolbox. Right. He's getting

to fuck out my shop right now. And they're like, oh, we're just trying to help Ryan, because he's got money he's not supposed to have and we're going to deposit in his in his inmate account but they are brazen right brazen is fucking man and Eddie's like that doesn't make no sense like how would that make any sense

you're going to help him he's like getting out of my shop right now so I'm in like a Jeep Grand Cherokee like down on the floor board like talking to 911 like trying to explain what had happened Friday to her and it's just it's a nightmare

they find me in this grand Cherokee and they're pounding on the windows like get out on after a few minutes a PBSO cop car pulls up so as the regular cop car pulls up I jump out of the the Cherokee I said listen sir you can arrest me right now cuff me up like I'll go wherever you take me to county take me wherever I just don't want to go anywhere with them I'm in fear for my life so he immediately cussed me up throws me in the cop car he's like trying to talk to bow and brown who like you can see like steam coming out of their ears as they're like trying to figure out a way to like make this make sense right because they've not thought of backstories to tell other cops you know so they're like oh yeah we we're gonna you know do the thing for the stuff and the who's he what's it's and the watcher jiggers and you know and the cops like okay okay

yeah he's a word of the state i'm gonna give him back to you so like he makes a big scene opens the back door and then like leans in he's like mr anderson we were literally wiring up your boss at the Kmart around the corner and he's like these guys thwarted the plan he's like we don't know why they picked you up early or what he's like but unfortunately he's like your boss is actually going to come here and try to be like hey can i just give you some money to squash all this maybe he'll they'll take it maybe they won't and he's like if it would be a nice you could have scald a little bit longer like he's telling me this really fast up he's like well listen i got to let you go with them

he's like but just know you're being followed he's like if you go back to the center we're going to be watching nothing's going to happen to you're like we're not going let them kill you or nothing. Yeah. They don't know that. Exactly. Like, they could have killed me in that van and nobody would have known. Right.

At least until that was dead. They could take you in the hole and do any number of things to you and say, we found him. He hung himself. Right. Well, first they had to take me back to the work. They could have strangled me with a seatbelt in the fucking van. So I'm saying, that doesn't mean that once you're in the place.

Oh, even worse. Yeah. It's even worse. Yeah. So at any rate, they give me back to them. And then now they're like, ha ha, you thought you were going to get over on us to show you like I have way more power than you like you like you're going to lose all your gain time. You're fucked. I'm going to give you a line to staff. DR. I'm going to give you a da-da-da-da-da-di. Whatever. I'm like, you. Both of you, you know. And in the end, we start driving back to the center. We're about to start driving back to the center in Diego. My manager comes up. I just give you guys like a thousand bucks. We'll just give you guys. We'll just give you guys. We'll just. to squash this all.

Right. They were smart enough to be like, no, no, no, because, like, too much had happened. We'd drive back to the center, and I'm, like, so nervous the whole ride back. Like, matter of fact, the guy, Officer Brown, was sitting behind me

because the Officer Bo, douche was like, if he tries anything funny, wrap that seatbelt around his neck and strangle his ass. Literally, like, told him to do that. And which he didn't do, but could have happened. We get back to the center, and we're back at the center. They put me in the officer station,

and they immediately, like, go off to the side and go try to figure out their stories. There's some officers working that know me. They know I don't cause any trouble. And they're like, Anderson, the fuck. Then Bo comes back in, and he tells us, one officer, Officer Campbell, he's like, hey, listen, Campbell, I need you to put

that we signed out the van at 0-800, right at 0-800. Right. And then we just got back, you know, right now. And Campbell's like, but you didn't. You were already gone when we got here. And he's like, just need to do it. Like, I'm the lieutenant, just do it.

and like when he walked away I liked Campbell I painted his car I'm like don't do it Campbell my lawyer's gonna have a field day of this shit I was like I promise you you don't know what's in motion here but shit's about to go down and he's like shit you think they'd do anything for my black ass man

that cracker I'm not doing shit for him and like literally like no sooner do he say that maybe five minutes later like the doors to the center like fly open and it's like the warden the Florida State Inspector General old PBSO, FDLE, like all those people.

And they're like, where's Ryan Anderson? Where's Ryan Anderson? Like, where's he at? They like make sure that I'm okay. And they're like, get him out of handcuffs right now. Blah, blah, blah. And they're like, where's a bow and brown at? And they were like at the, there's a road prison right next door to the work release.

They're like at the road prison, like off in a corner, like talking. So they grab them. Start questioning everybody and everything. But like there's a lot of damning evidence against them already. Right. Because their story already doesn't make sense. Yeah, it makes no sense. At the very least, you've already lied on a police report.

Right, right, which is at the very least enough for them to get fired, let alone, you know, charged. I think you can get two or three years for lying on a police report. And it's worse when it's an official making that kind of thing. So I get questioned about the FDLE and all these people and all that, and they're just kind of corroborating what I've already said. And then the real kick in the ass about this thing is like, I was good at work release. instead of letting me stay and finish out my last 55 days or whatever that I had left

when this all went down they sent me back to Martin Correctional again which oversees West Palm Work Release by this time but it put me in AC confinement so I'm in administrative confinement

I'm in the box and I just like I'm back there for like 45 days I think when I didn't do anything wrong, you know. So I was going to say, you know, what's funny is, like, the warden of the prison has the right to release you.

Exactly. Like the warden, they could have just gone and explained it to the warden. He could have said, okay, you know what? Do you have somewhere to go? Right. Like, we're going to send you home. Like, you're done. Right.

It's 45 days. You're done. You're safer at home. Which is exactly, I actually, when I got interviewed with the FDA Lee, I actually suggest I'm like, they can't just do an emergency release. It's 45 days. It's nothing. That's a joke.

It's really nothing. Locked up for years. Exactly. I asked like that, and I was just like, and then when they said that they were going to send me to Martin, I was like, you guys are like playing with my life. You don't know what buddies they have at Martin or whatever

that could make me to death back there in the box. Like, anything could happen. But no, I do my 45 of my last 60 days in the box. Then I go to Bell Glade for like my last 15 days or whatever, 14 days. Then I get out. I get out. And once I'm out,

like this whole case and everything has just been like crazy my girlfriend's been in the newspaper right? Because the articles I read in the newspaper so by this point they've arrested the guys have they charged them and everything not by the time I got out

okay the arrest came later however like my girlfriend like once I get sent to the box and everything she's just like beside herself and she's like feverishly writing me trying to figure out where I'm at the FDLE had questioned her

and then they had like question her and then like when they sent me to the box I think I think they like told her they didn't know where I was at which freaked her out she had no way to

talk to me to know I was like what the fuck what do you mean you don't know where he's at so anyway all these things happen and it's just like a world random

for a hurry it's like something out of a bad B movie you know and you know we're going through the whole kit and Kiboodoo here and are they ever going to charge these guys like now i'm out they're ever going to charge these

guys like what i knew they were suspended like right away right without pay well finally i want to say it was like so i got out april i got out tax day 2013 i want to say it was like september they finally officially charged both of them with like official misconduct and a couple other things and so you know they arrest them they charge them the the white shirt guy got a good lawyer Michael Salonick, he's pretty good. He gets pretty good lawyer, but Brown has, like, a public pretender. And, like, Union doesn't do shit for him.

So, anyway, I end up here and they get arrested. I'm like, finally, yeah, they get arrested. And just to show you, like, how slow the wheels of justice move in our system. If it was me, I would have been on trial in three months. Right. Because these guys were pregnant guards. it was three years before one of them went on trial, which was the lieutenant.

They wanted to always try the lieutenant first because they're like, you know, some may say our case is weaker on the lieutenant, but like that guy, he's a white shirt like him. So like he's higher up, whatever. So long and short, we end up going to a trial and I think his lawyer would depositions and all this and his lawyer is very clear his lawyer is going to be like,

attack my credibility, attack my credibility. attack my credibility. I wish it was recorded because I mopped the floor with his lawyer. I mean, I mop the fool. I made him look like a fool. I have a good memory and stuff, but he tried every way to trip me up and get me to, you know, get a rise out of me and stuff. And I just, I mopped the fucking floor with that fool. And like, and even the other, the dude, Bo, like, at one point it was like, can you identify that man in the courtroom? And I was like, yeah, he's a guy over there with the, with the cheap men's warehouse suit on in the bad hair piece

or whatever. Right. And like the whole courtroom was like, it was pretty funny. He gets convicted at trial, bam, on everything. The judge, like, oh, I got to do like my victim impact statement and I wrote like a solid gold impact statement. Right. Which part

of it was just like me trying to rub it in. But part of it really was like, I'm trying to change my life here. Yeah, like I really truly is trying to change my life. Like, no, mind you, when it finally went to trial three years, later that girl that was my girlfriend is now my fucking wife right we got married and I'm just like working my ass off to get my shit together the ex girl had you know that I was with before

I went to prison a second time our restitution was joint in several who do you think had to get stuck paying all the restitution this guy and by the time the three years had elapsed I had already gotten off probation paid off all my restitution to the tune of ten of thousands of dollars got married like all this shit like all i was trying to do is get my shit together that's it i wrote this impact statement that was just pretty much like a big you and like you're entrusted for the you're in a position of trust and you're supposed to be keeping me you know part of it is is part of it is you know yeah you're a jailer you're supposed to keep me incarcerated but you're and following the rules but you're also supposed to you're you're entrusted with my safety yes yes so

And so, yeah, they, I forget what the, there's like a three Cs or something, it's like care, something in control, care, comfort of control, care, care, something rather in control, like the, the DOC uses. Yeah, they just violated all that shit. And, like, the one guard, the officer Brown, I like, almost fell bad for him. I didn't, but almost because he was like Bo's puppy dog. Right. I guarantee you that pussy would have never done that without Bo. He's a pussy. And so, but falling in Bo around, like, you know, I can make a couple hundred raggedy-ass dollars.

Like, well, how many people were, I mean, how long had they done that and for, and what, I mean, what is your, what do you think? Because you're not, you're clearly not the first person that they'd ever done that too. I think that Bo had been doing it for years. Right. It was like almost as long as he's been working at the center. Brown hadn't been an officer long enough. I think I was probably one of the first people that he ever, like... And it went way wrong.

It went way wrong. It lost his career over it. So once Bo got convicted, Brown took a deal. He lost his career and got, like... He was just barely, like, at that point where they get a vest. Right. I think it's like three or five years for them. So they're just barely getting the vest.

So he lost everything. Not to mention, like, all the time he was out on... All the time he was out. on admin leave and all that kind of shit so like that's basically what happened and like after it happened like I had other guys like yeah they were making me pay rent too but the thing it was like those guys wouldn't come forward because they were doing shit yeah yeah you know what I mean so it's like uh and yeah dude it's just the Florida system is so so corrupt like I can like go on on on about it but you know did you want to be law enforcement when you were

growing up what were you thinking when you were in high school you know well here's a thing and i think most in a city uh people who live in these uh type of environments that i brought up with your mom well my mother and everybody else's mother um kind of instilled in us that you know in in my era rap was relevant you know everybody's trying to be a rapper or everybody's trying to be a basketball player everybody didn't have those skills. So what it was in order to quote-unquote make it out the urban environment is you get yourself a city or state job and you do 20, 30 years, get a pension. And during that course of time, you can move your family to a better neighborhood, go to better schools, et cetera, like that. So no, I didn't have any ambition to be a correction officer.

It's just that when I was growing up, my brother joined the Marines. I was still in school and got in some trouble in school and ended up dropping out of school. So he came back from the Marines and, you know, all gung-ho and everything and took me down to the recruiter. And you know how the recruiters can be real persistent, taking you out to dinner, wine, and then down you to get you to sign in. So I became a Marine because I didn't even have my GED. And at the time, they were taking individuals without GEDs. So I thought it would a wait for me to escape, a way for me to get out, you know, become a mature grown man.

So June 3rd, I went and took the test to get into the military. June 6th, I was on that plane going to Paras Island to be a Marine. Okay. Just like that. How old were you? 18? 19. 19.

19. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, 19. I mean, that seems like a smart move. You know what I'm saying? They'll take care. Like, I mean, it's, it's, I mean, it's, I'm sure it's hell, but at least you have somebody, at least you have direction and you

have someone to, you know, point you in the right direction and you have a structure and... But you don't know that until you go through it. Right. You're terrified because you hear all the stories about Marine Corps boot camp. You know, you really don't know how good a shape you are until you go through that. Right. How was it? It was a, it was enlightening to me because coming from Harlem in 19.

I went in 1987. I'm just, you know, I'm just going to be straight up. It wasn't that many white people in my neighborhood that I had to interact with on a daily basis. So now I become a ring, and it's like accessible, people from all over the world. This is the first time it was a guy named Petit. And this is the first time in my life ever

that I was really seeing somebody with natural red hair and red hair on it, you know, on the, like this, like it was a red he had red hair big guy from the country you know and as you exchange stories with them i tell them i lived in their projects 30 stories tall elevator goes up and there's like 12 apartments there's like you y'all live like an ant colony you know they were a elevator you know at the time coming from the country up you've never been to any city yeah living in a building 30 stories tall they were afraid am i afraid of heights And until you, you know, you witness it or experience it, and you understand where I'm coming from.

Just like I couldn't understand how somebody 12 years old already was not how to drive tractors and drive big trucks. When in New York City, if you get your license before 30 at that time, you're going to say, you don't even in a car. You don't even in a car in New York. No, no, not at all. But it was that experience, you know, I wouldn't trade it for a world now. So did you, I mean, did you, how long were you, I'm assuming you went through boot camp, I'm assuming, you know, there were no problems or how did, how long were you in the, in the Marines? Well, I'm going to be honest with the recruiter lied to me. Right.

No. One of the questions I asked them, you know, it, when you're young, you feel like you're pretty much invincible that, you know, I'm, I'm scared about the training. that I heard Marines go through, but I was more scared, afraid about, are we going to war? You know, that was one of the questions I asked them. And he was like, oh, it's peacetime. Don't worry about it. You know, it's peacetime right now. It's just no threats or nothing like that.

So I took his word for it. And in 1989 and 90, I ended up in Desert Storm, Desert Shield in a war. Right. Yeah, so that's the only thing I really, I can say what wrong. Everything else was just life changing experiences, but becoming a, a man being away from home because I'm from New York, stationed in Camp Hill and in California, you know, seeing different cultures with like a cesspool of people from all over the world in California. You know, first time I've seen a black guy with a 10-gallon hat and a belt and

boots and really dancing the country music. So it was an eye-opening for me coming from the city from Harlem. So, well, how was a, um, you said you were in Desert Shield. Desert Storm, Desert Shield. That's the name of it. So, I mean, how long were you there? Two years. Did you see any action or? Oh, yeah.

I'm a decorated war veterans. Okay. Why did you get out? At the time, my daughter was born. And I never, I hadn't laid eyes on at all because I was out in Desert Storm, Desert Shield. And when I came back, okay, the way the military is, my time to get out of the military came and went when I was over in the war. Once you're in the war, you can't come home until the war is over.

Right. So, I mean, speaking, you signed your enlist for four years. If within that four years, if you got like six months left and the war breaks out and you're over in war, you have to be there for the duration until you can, uh, to the war's over and, you know, hopefully you make it home. Right. And then you decide if you want to stay or if you want to go. I decided after being there two years past my time that I was going to stay but I wanted to go see my daughter at least lay eyes on her physically

and they were doing a turnaround they were going right back and that's why I said no because I don't know about what's going to happen this next time I'm around so that's when I elected to get out so I can be with my daughter be around my kids

so I mean what was your plan when you got out no plan really uh because you get out with a little bit of money you've got a little chunk of money yes yes you know but if you are i'm not going to say uneducated if you don't have a plan that money goes fast if you don't have a plan of action and when i got out the military of course what's what's the jobs available security law enforcement you know if you're a big guy construction you work to your streams. Now, at the time, I did have a little bit of computer savvy because I was an aviation maintenance administration inside the military. So basically, still following what my mom told me, took all the city exams to be a police officer and a correction officer. And corrections

caught me first. Okay. And it was for, for Rikers Island. Yes. Yes. So who runs Rikers Island is it the like the sheriff's department or corrections the corrections department so it's a state facility it's a city it's a city jail it's like um when you any county it's like a county jail for new york city okay i was going to say because you know what like in most not all cities but i mean not all states but in most states you know the the the county sheriff runs the jail, you know, even if you have like a police department, you typically end up, like let's say you got arrested in Tampa. You, the Hillsborough County is going to put you in their jail for the Tampa PD. But some, some cities are so large

that they have their own jail systems. But most are, let's face it, most places aren't New York City. It's insane. It's not like it's twice as big as Tampa. It's 350 to 500 times as big as Tampa. You know, it's massive. So, you know, I don't know if you've been to Tampa, but I grew up thinking Tampa was a city because there was like, there's like 10 buildings that are more than, you know, 30 feet high.

That's a city to, you know, and now you go to, I'm like, Tampa's not a city. Like, you go to New York and you've never, you've never came into New York. Yeah, about two years ago, I've been twice since then, but two years ago. So, you know, I'd seen it, but it's not, you don't understand until you've driven, you know, over that bridge into the city how it's like, this isn't a large city. This is buildings as far as you can see. And it, listen, my, my, my wife grew up in like, Okechobee. And the tallest building in Okachobee. is like three stories high.

I mean, it's she, she was, I was shocked. She was just like, it's her second time on an airplane. She was going this insane. You know,

so we're, you know, we're Florida, you know, country, you know, bumpkins. Because,

listen, 90% of Florida is basically pick up trucks and dairy, dairy farms and, you know, it's not all beach. It ain't all Miami. Trust me. So,

So they have, so okay, so it's, it's, it's the, it's New York City's personal jail. Yes. It's like the city jail. When you go to Rikers Island, whatever, a person get caught for a crime, they ship from the Rikers Island until either they bailout or they go on trial or Rikers Island's where you see your faith. No inmate is on Rikers Island for more than two years. if your trial is that huge of a deal four years tops you know if you got a lawyer that wants to

keep you down there for you know health reasons and other reasons other than that two years other two years you're going to find out your faith whether you're going home or you're going upstate new york to serve out your sentence right so rikers island is what a barge it's like a huge barge or is it really an island it's an island it's an island and it's it's And I thought it was a huge barge. Because they do have break off parts, different jails within the city. And one of them is in a Bronx called the barge. It's a floating. It's a floating jail that they also house inmates there as well, where Rikers Island get overpopulated. So you got the job. You get the call. You go down there. How much do you get any trouble? How much do you get any trouble? training? How much training did you get?

Training was about two months. And in two months... Half Likers? No. Okay. Training was in a training facility in Queens. And what you do there is... I'm going to give you the professional version and then the real word. Professional version, hey, you're a correctional, take the oath, you know, uphold the badge.

This is the dudes and don'ts about Raggers Island. don't do this, don't do that. You're going to teach you a little bit. I'm not going to say it's karate. There's just little methods to protect yourself because you're going to learn, like if you're not some kind of black belt or really take training,

you're going to have to be able to protect yourself until help arrives. So they just teach you a little tactics that what you could do to whatever you're going through to not make it so bad. I mean to protect yourself for just a while until help comes. So it's a lot of rules and regulations that they teach you in the academy. But now, that's the professional part.

We're going to teach you everything, all the rules and regulations. Now, the real part is when you become a correctional officer and you walk through those gates, forget everything you learned in the academy. You forget it because it's not really like that. The academy is, and I found out, is if you do something wrong, we taught you the right way. We already know how you're going to do once you get there. right but we taught you the right way so now in order to get you in trouble and uh because you were taught the right way we also know that the right way is not the way that is ran in there but to cover

us see people think the academy is to teach you how to be a correction officer no the academy is the you know all the blue paper that says we taught them not to do that we told them not to do that not to do this even though we know in order to run the jail you got to cut some corners so right yeah I was going to say like, you know, and like the medium in the feds, they, you know, so it's, it's, it's, they don't allow segregation. They don't allow, you know, they don't allow anything like that. But then there, that's the, that's the, that's the version that you get on the computer. But the truth is all the black guys are, are housed with or at least in the cells with the black guys. You know, they're sitting at their own table.

They have their own TV. The white guys have their TV. The black guys have a couple TVs because there's more of them. The Hispanics have a TV. Like it's very, you know, they naturally segregate themselves. But the COs also, I want to say they do encourage it because they realize it keeps the peace. It may not be politically correct. But if you start putting the black guys and the white guys cells and the Hispanic cells and just say, oh, no, no, you're going to go in that cell.

Now we've got a problem because now you guys are. these guys are in danger they're going to get hurt they're going to attack each other they're you know so it's like i understand what the paperwork says i understand what the rule says yeah this is going to be a problem like you're going to you might want take me to the shoe or even if this guy doesn't attack me and it doesn't become a problem within a day or two you know it's going to be a problem with a lot of times it'll be a problem with your own people yes you got to get out of that cell then you got to beat that dude out of that cell it's like you talk about bro like i'm here for a tax violation like

I don't want to stab it anybody. What are you talking about? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I hear what you're saying. It's the same thing with the COs. Like, this might be what happened, but here's what you write on the report. Yes.

No. Definitely. A lot of that. A lot of, I slipped in the showers. Right. So you, so you, when you do show up, what, what happens? Like, I mean, did you have a, you know, what was your plan going in there? Like, hey, I'm going to work here 20 years and retire.

or you know what i feel it out you know my upbringing i always took jobs that i needed at the time not jobs that i wanted right escaping a escaping the inner city hood i thought the military was a way out um so when i came home like maybe i could be wrong i don't recall anybody saying when i grew up i want to be a correction officer so you know you hear about the benefits of being law enforcement and stuff like that. So what they do to you when you first get in the academy within that first week, get your uniform, a lot of boring orientation classes on Monday. That Tuesday, if you start Monday on the academy, that Tuesday, you're on Rikers Island.

That Tuesday, they take you to Rikers Island and they walk you around Rikers Island. this is the term of anointment, meaning you look at yourself and you decide if you want this job right now early before you even go through the academy. They take you and they put you in the worst jail, they let you walk around. It's like a, sort of like a tourist attraction. Like you're all lined up there and they take you through the cells. They take you to the hardened criminals. Have you ever seen the Scarstrait program on TV where they take you, they take you. kids and they let inmates intimidate them and say things to them. So that's like your second day in the academy so they can find out if you, no, you got to say within yourself if you're

going to quit or if you're going to keep this job. A lot of people like three or four people quit. Like I'm not doing this. You know, so that's how they weed you out to see if you're going to stay a correction officer. So me being young, I was just taking the job. I wanted a job I wanted to do better for my family. So, you know, it hit all the marks, benefits, pension, good pay, you know, a couple of, you know, a little bit of hazard with your life. But other than that, I really didn't have a plan. I just, I was as young and let me go and get me a job and see where it takes me. So, so I was going to say what I don't think, I don't think what people realize, too, is like there's a huge difference between, let's say, a little.

low custody. So I was in in federal prison, right? Like I was in, I did three years in a medium. I did, you know, a year in the U.S. Marshals holdover. It's basically like almost like a county jail. And then I did three years in the medium and then nine years in, um, in a low custody. You know, it was a low security. So, but, you know, but a, a city or a county jail, like you've got, There are very few guys are locked up at Coleman Lowe because they're violent. You know, now there may be violence, you know, in their past. There may be some violence, but there's not a lot. Like, let's say 20, maybe 10% of these guys actually have some kind of violence in their past, you know.

But in county jails, you know, these are, you're getting guys that do home invasions. They do, you know, carjackings. They do like these are, this is why guys will always say stuff. me in the comments they're like they're like um oh you wouldn't survive in a state prison you're right i don't commit state crimes i don't have to worry about that like i'm not concerned like i'm filling out paperwork bro i'm not rob i'm not kicking in somebody's door i'm not burglarizing house like i'm not concerned about it but that's my the problem is when these guys talk about most people can think state prison and that there is they're violent people

there are a lot of violence yes yes i was working a high classification house I can't do it. I can't do it. You know what? I'm going to be honest with you. First day, walking in there, the inmates know you're new. But first of all, you got a light blue shirt on, so they already know you got shiny shoes on. So they know you're new. And you know what? I'm born and raised in Harlem, a hard project, pull-grounds projects.

I'm not saying I'm Mr. Tough Guy, but I've seen some things as a kid. yeah so now here i am marine i'm a marine i went through boot camp i fought in the war so i here i'm coming home six for three nine percent body fat you couldn't tell me i was in pretty good shape as a big guy right bro when that door slant behind me and it is sunk in forget all the training forget all the talking this is this this this is it you're here now And the horror stories, all that comes back to you, like, okay, there's nothing to protect me but my presentation. Right. That door slammed behind me, and I can hear my heartbeat.

I can hear my heartbeat because it's self-preservation. Like, even if you walk in the street and you're in a riot and you got to protect yourself against 30 guys. Like, realistically speaking, Bruce Lee, the toughest of the toughest. You're not going to protect yourself from 30 guys and all that mentally comes to play like, you know, okay, I'm here. That door slammed and then you know the rules and regulations that you're my partner, but you're the A officer. I'm the big officer that got to be inside with the inmates walking around, making sure they're not hanging themselves up and raping one another and beating one another up. Duke, I'm only one man. You know, so I had to learn that a lot of prison.

in jail, the consequences of their actions cheat them in check, meaning, yeah, you could beat me up. You could do what you want to, but you know you're not going away. So you know after you beat me up, tell me, do whatever you want, you know you're pretty much done. So that's the logic behind two officers to 100 inmates. They know momentarily you may have a victory if you beat up an officer or whatever the case may be, but you know it's coming. And do you want to catch the graph of what's coming. So that's what stops a lot of inmates from doing things. But I was terrified, bro. I was terrified. I didn't think I was, I didn't think I was built because before then, I was in a criminal. No, right. I wasn't. So. So, yeah, I was going to say you're saying

retaliation, like the inmates would always say, well, you know, they can't retaliate. You're about getting out of your mind, bro. Like you can smart off to an officer. And five minutes later, you walk in your cell he's got he's opened up your locker your shits everywhere he's throwing contraband contraband contraband contraband he's just throwing stuff in a in a bag and you're like oh man even if he says it's not contraband i'm never getting it back yes you know well you could fill out a bp this or fill out of bp that or you know they have these forms you're like you're never you're never seen anything even if you win you're not getting anything like you're at their mercy you can't win so it's just instead they just take it out on each other um you're absolutely right you're absolutely

Right. And I'm glad you said that because a lot of people don't understand. You can hate law enforcement all you want to. You can hit the cops. The cops, the police officers, outside. You've got more of a leverage with cameras and stuff like that. When you become an inmate as a correction officer, I decide. Whether you live or die. I decide that. You know, you don't think you have to kiss nobody ass and you got, can you curse on this thing? Yeah. You know, you might think I'm a man and I'm not going to bow. down, listen, you piss off the right officer. I've seen worse revenge tactics. Yeah. And riffing up your legal paperwork that you work so hard to get, that could have your freedom in your, in your hand. So yeah. Yeah, they don't understand that their life is in the

correct officer's hand. Yeah, I, um, yeah, I don't think I ever, I never wrote anything up. I never, because I knew it's just not going to, in the end, it's not going to go your way. I'll buy another one, I'll call my lawyer and get them to send in some more paperwork. I'll, I'll get another one from commissary. I'll, you know, and I, listen, I'm polite to everybody. I'm polite. I would say, you know, I could, I could, I could have lunch with, with Stalin and Adolf Hitler and I would be perfectly nice. Oh, how's it going? Yeah, what's, yeah, it didn't work out, you know. Um, so yeah, I was always nice. Um, I never had any problems with any of the officers either. But then again, the thing is in the feds, you almost never see them.

You know, once you get to prison, you have very little communication or contact with the, with the COs. It's where in, you know, there's like one officer for every 300 and some odd, you know, guys. So, and honestly, they're pretty well behaved because everybody's got their, they get their routine. The problem is, is that like the jail that you're in, like, these guys are all, they're just sitting in their cells for playing cars. They're just boredom is killing them. Yes. Yeah, it's, it's, so, so what happened? So you're working, what, 40 hours a week?

How long, you know, how long are you working until things, until somebody approaches you? How does that happen? Okay. Around and because I can't speak for other cities. I can only talk about Rikers Island. When they put the posting up, or they put it out there advertise that they're hiring, you take the test, you get the job.

But, however, you're living in the same neighborhoods as these criminals are. So now they tell you in the academy, you're going to see people you know. There's no way around it. Now, it's kind of awkward because the rules and regulations of the academy, once you become a correctional officer, no interact with anybody who has no felons. You can't be hanging out with felons, even your family member. you can't be a guy got in trouble one time going to his cousin's wedding and he's in the wedding photo you know the wedding party takes a picture they found out of body asked him like why do you know this guy there's a known felon and you're he's way on the end of the picture you're you're in here with this

with this person so when they say you get approached is people in your neighborhood that get arrested and they see you you know them right you know them like i'm gonna be honest with you one of one of the stories I have to tell you is that I beat up my best friend. I beat up my best friend for the sake that he was an inmate and I'm an officer. This is how close proximity that you know people. So now if I know you, I know your mom. They go to church together. We went to high school together, played on the basketball team together. If I need a cigarette, if I need drugs, you know me. Right. You know, sort of spent. So I'm going to test your loyalty to that badge versus your loyal to us as kids coming up, you know, maybe I saved your butt a time or two when we were

getting jumped by various gangs or robbers. So, you know, because you go through things as a kid in high school with people who you took the right path, you became a officer, and they took the wrong path and they're inmate. Right. You know, and they know you. And they feel, okay, if you may just say, okay, I bring you something there on a strip that my mom and your mom go to church together. Right. You know, yeah. I was going to say it's impossible to separate them. Like in in Coleman, if you like I, there was a guy, a buddy of mine one time who saw an officer that he knew. Like it was a friend of his brothers and the officer when he saw him, he kind of waited a little bit.

And then when he got when he was not, you know, in like a visible place, he went up to him. He said, bro, don't tell anybody that you know me. He said they're going to, because they'll ship you immediately. Yes. Because it's the prison. This is, you know. And. And so another time I was at the medium, and there was a guy who went to high school with a female correctional officer.

And this guy, he's in her office. She's letting them out after count. They're talking. He's sitting on their desk. And I remember my cousin was locked out with me. And he came up. He goes, how long you think that's going to last? I said, I don't know.

What do you think? He goes, he's gone in a week. He's got, he was, I'm surprised he's not gone already. Sure enough, he's on the packout like two days later. He doesn't have. And he's like, well, I don't understand. in and everybody's going, what are you doing? Like, what did you think? Like, you didn't even try and

hide it, bro. You're telling everybody, oh, she ain't going to say nothing. The inmates will say something. Yes. In Rikers, like, there's just no way to, you couldn't keep officers or the inmates. You have nowhere to ship them. You just have to deal with it.

You know what? It's too many. Right. You know too many people. Okay, here's the rule. If it's not so much if you know someone, but definitely if they were a family member, you definitely got to let people know and they got to get out of it.

You can't ship off everybody you know. Right. You got to pull them to the side and check them. But when I say check them, you got to make sure that they know if they violate what you tell them that you will get them

hurt up or you will put the beats on them. So now, okay, I know your mom, okay, we went to school together, but this is my job. And I'm telling you, I'm going to do my job. Right. So a lot of times, once you put it in that perspective, very little people become hard-headed. Now, they will go back and call people, oh, you know, Gary's in here, he's acting like an officer, like he said. You know, like he's a police or something.

Yes, yes, because. But, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. I'm guilty of seeing friends, helping out friends, you know, while I was there. Sometimes it's human nature, you know, but you generally, you don't want to jeopardize your livelihood. You got this job for a reason. Bro, I'm sorry that you took a left when I took a right. I'm sorry you ended up on that side of the fence. But if you really are my friend.

Right. And our parents, you know, our family are intertwined like that. You will respect what I'm doing. Now, I'm not going to go out my way to do you bodily harm. But in the line of work, that happened to me. I had to beat up one of my friends because it's my job. It's my job. So that's a hard thing to do to come back to the neighborhood after you're going to put the beats down on one of your friends.

Everybody knows. Because everybody's family is right there close proximity. So yeah, that's, that's a tough part about being the, being the, um, correction officer. But guess what? You got to remember you took this job to get away from all that. Right. I was going to say how long that doesn't have to take, but a few years of dealing with that. And now I can move out of this area. Yeah. You know, so yeah, I had a guy on, uh, um, I interviewed a guy, whatever, uh, yesterday. Actually, he was talking about like the different. He lives in Florida now, but he grew up, um, in New York. And he's, like you don't understand like you like you see these guys all the time he's like it's not like in florida i can bump into somebody in the mall in florida and have an issue with the guy and

never see him again he's like that's not what he's in new york you're going to see this guy even if you live four blocks away multiple times in the next month so yeah i can i can only imagine how many people you must have known so at at what point you know at what point like how many years go by before you kind of cross that line uh uh I was roughly a correction officer like two years because what happened, I mean, what happened was in the military, me and my wife was on shaky terms when I was already in the Gulf War, in the war. So coming home was kind of like, let's try to make this work type of thing. And being a correctional officer, coming in with a shaky marriage is the wrong thing to do. So evidently, she, we found, you know, divorced and child support set in.

I think I had been a correctionist for like two years. Child support set in. Shredded my check, destroyed me. You know, I have my own apartment. Car got repoed, had to move back in with mom. All of that went down now. Up into that time, I think I was a pretty solid officer, meaning I saw a couple of people, a lot of people from my neighborhood who probably, hey, can you bring me this? Can you bring me

that? And no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, but that don't stop them from today, Monday, you said no. Friday, you may say, yeah, they're going to ask you all the time. They're going to test you all the time. Right. So up until to that point, I was pretty solid until I started getting my paycheck after all the deductions and the rea's from child support. And the opportunities were still there for me to be corrupt. Right. You know, so I remember the first time I did it.

Terrified. Like, if I know you, right, I know you don't smoke cigarettes. I know you don't drink. So nobody can't walk up to me and tell me, hey, yo, I saw a duke down, smoking a blunt and drinking some Hennessy on the corner. Come on. I know him. So now, Mayor Giuliani stopped cigarettes in all city agencies throughout the city. And guess what? The jails are city agencies.

So in commissary, they had to stop selling cigarettes. So if you came to jail and you were a smoker, you better get that patch. You better get some kind of whatever you're going to need. So that opened up a very lucrative opportunity to make money. At the time, a pack of cigarettes wasn't even 10 bucks at the time. Now, you know you get 25 cigarettes, 15 cigarettes in a pack. One cigarette. You got to learn, I mean, you probably know. They'll take that cigarette, break it down until about three cigarettes called rollies. And if you're a smoker, you'll pay up to $20 for one of those rollings. $20, and I don't know by any other jail, when you go to come and say a bag of chips is 10 cents, so this is a quarter. So you live in like

a king or for $20 in your commissary. So now you have a whole pack of cigarettes to do what they call juggling. I mean, it's like trading for sneakers, trading for something because people want to smoke that bad. Right. So once he put the, it's called Quality of Life,

laws in effect, and now nobody can smoke in the city buildings. Even if you work in the corporate America and you work in a city building, you've got to go downstairs outside in the coal, smoke your cigarette. So that opened up the door. for me and I'm on the first time I just want to put it out there for all officers who think that you're going to get away with it bro there's no smooth way about it sooner or later you're going to get caught now I bring

in a pack of cigarettes supposedly the surefire way somebody from my neighborhood who I do I know his family so I really didn't think he was going to snitch on me or get me in trouble and i needed the money so i bought tops tobacco at the time a pouch of tops tobacco cost like two dollars gave me 300 bucks i spent two dollars it's a nice profit so but if you know me like you're my boy you know me and i'm coming there i'm sweating my forehead sweating in my mind he knows he knows i have something on me my heart he everybody's looking at me because they know i have something out in hindsight it's a it's a cigarette so it's not a drug or or nothing like that

and i could be using it for personal use but if you know i don't smoke cigarettes if you see me in a cigarette like what the hell are you doing with a cigarette inside the jail you right so all this is playing in my mind as i'm walking through the the it's called the magnumina where they search all right because everybody's will do this search. But guess what? If you're my boy and we play ball together, we just came from the next game. Nobody's searching me. You know what I'm saying? You might be dating my sister. I mean, this is how close

we are. So, and nobody's going to think Gary is bringing in contraband. Right. And I had to because I already got paid the $300. I already got the, I get the money first and that I told them I will bring it. So I'm taking all the precautions. I'm wiping off the, the pack of, you're not going to find no fingerprints from me on this.

cigarette if he get caught with these this pouch of tobacco so I stuff it in my vest I come and fully dressed in my correction officer uniform and I walk right through and you know I'm talking smack about the basketball game and and I'm sweating they don't see I'm nervous as hell I'm a clown now normally you know jovial cracking jokes I'm dead serious let me get to my housing area to get this thing off me right so they have something called muster where we all sit there and it's like attendance uh john you here gary you here chuck you here all the while

everything is moving in slow motion bro it's moving slow motion because I've never done anything like this before but I was desperate so I get to my housing area now there's another officer there that I got to wait for the opportunity so all this is

it's really all this takes by half hour but it's an eternity when you really know you're doing wrong yeah you really know you're doing wrong So, I see the inmate, I let him out his cell, right, to clean up. He's cleaning up. So the officer goes to the bathroom. At that time, the officer goes to the bathroom.

This is when cameras was in everywhere. They didn't have no cameras. So I quickly took it out my vest, and I gave it to him, and he went to his cell. Now I'm clear. Unless there's a camera, unless there's forensics with the fingerprints, I'm clear. But in my mind, he's going to tell. Somebody's going to say something. They're going to jump from under this desk, behind the door.

Somebody's just waiting for me to give them that tobacco. And at the end of the day, when nobody jumped out and said nothing, nobody jumped out the trunk of my car. When I got home, nobody was waiting at my door saying, ah, we got you. And I breathed a side of relief, and I held that $300 in my hand. That was the turning point. Right. That was a turning point.

That was easy. I can do that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I did that. Every time I got away with something, I became emboldened by it. I felt like, I'm good at this. Yes. You think you're good. Yeah. Yeah. No, he just hadn't caught up with you. Mm-hmm. How did that guy, so you're saying they're asking you all the time, just finally one day you just said, yeah, all right. That was it? Like he approached you. When they're asking you, you're telling them, no, get out of here.

Get out of it. Get out of here. Right. So some officers, they look like, okay, he's never going to break. But in the academy, they tell you, if you bring in a stick of gum, a stick of a bubble gum, you'll bring them in a gun. Yeah. So they say, you know, meaning these inmates got nothing but time to sit here and study you. Extremely manipulative. I come in.

I'll tell you, yeah, me and my old lady having problems. I'm getting divorced. I got to pay taxes. My son is this. snap eye. I'm telling you my whole business. Their ears is to the wall. Opportunity. Yes.

So when they're asking you, let them hear you go and do divorce and let you pay. Or I'm telling you, I leave and you're talking crap about me and you tell my buddy, yes, old lady taking them to the cleaners, whatever. They pray on

stuff like that. Right. And when, so as an officer, I know, who uh propositioned me so when when when it got real bad for me i know who to go to right to get it done and that's what i did you know once you paid or once you got you brought that contraband in how long was it before you did something else or you know at that point you realized okay i can do this period i'll do it every once in yes that's how it goes. Right. I was only doing it like when I needed it. I need three or four hundred bucks.

I make a deal. Boom. And then it got to, it got bad. It got really bad. So I was bringing in like about, I'm going to tell you the story. I had like 20 pouches of tobacco. See, I'm a big guy. And correction officers, they have this vest. It's like a bulletproof vests, but it's a staff who vest for correction officers. So with me being a big guy and then wearing the bulky vest, you're not going to search my vest. So I would take the inserts out of the vest and stuff them with tobacco and go to my housing area. Now, good thing.

Well, I'm going to say, listen, I'm just going to say, I'm just going to tell you because I was in the moment. You don't have to, I hear you. OK, here it is. Corrections try different tactics to catch officers bringing contraband inside the jail right so one time I'm coming through with them 20 pouts of tobacco and I see a friend of mine and we went we was in the correction the Academy together his name was Klein hey Klein what's going

on but I'm talking to him and then it hit me Klein got the got promoted to the canine unit so I'm looking at Klein leaning up on a desk but under the the desk where you can't see is this is this canine dog that sniffs for drugs right so if you would have come by and he smelled drugs that dog would react i didn't have drugs i had tobacco so i noticed that and i said oh in my mind holy crap you know yeah but now i get to my housing area uh you know we all like family we all like friends so i get a phone call from security listen The search is coming to your housing area. The search is when periodically 10 to 50 officers get together and they go to a housing area

and search for contraband, weapons and stuff like that to shake the inmates up. Yeah. So I got the phone call. Yeah. The shakedown crew. That they're coming to do a shakedown in my area. Here I am. I got 20 pouches of tobacco and I just had gave an inmate five pouches.

I hurried up and took my pouches and put. it in the ceiling in my office. They never searched the office station. Right. So they went inside the housing area, and I know I just gave this guy vouchers of tobacco.

And I'm sitting in, I'm looking at them, search inmate by inmate. And they're getting closer and closer to the guy I gave the tobacco to. So what I did was, I jumped into action. I went out and joined the search to help them search the inmates.

So I went to the guy I know was dirty with tobacco and I yelled at him and I got aggressive with him and I patted him down and I threw them inside the cell and told him to close cell number 18. So they're looking at me like I'm helping them with the search. Right. But honestly, I'm getting me and this guy out of trouble. You know what I'm saying? God forbid they say, no, forget that. We're going to search them anyway.

I'd have been dead. I'd have been dead in order. So that was one of my scary, one of my scary moments. Was your concern that he's going to get caught and then he's going to flip and when they say, where'd you get this? He's going to say, man, listen, you know, that that was your concern that, you know, Hayward gave it to me. You know, that that's what he's going to say. Yes. But then again, these guys, intelligence is not dumb.

Even if he didn't say that, when you catch an inmate with contraband, it's normally wrapped in a balloon. or it's normally wrapped in something that, you know, they secrete in a behind, something like that. So to have a fresh pouch or tobacco, like, he just bought it from the corner store. Yeah, it's one of the guards brought it in, that's in this housing unit. And that's very comfortable with doing it. Like, you did it more than once for you to, for us to catch it, that fresh. So even though they really couldn't prove it, if he kept his mouth shut, even though they really couldn't brew it, of course. Now they're going to watch you.

Now they're on you. Now you're exposed. So that's, that day went by smooth. You said 20, 20 pouches? Yes. At 300 grand. Yes. Wow.

Well, what happened with me is I had a, first of all, I'm not trying to put my vices on any correctional officer. I drunk a lot due to. stress from the job and stress from going on through, I'm not making no excuses, I'm just telling you the reality. And I had a gambling problem. I had to shoot dice with the best of it. So those two

combined with not having any money was the rest of heat for disaster. So I can go in a gambling spot and win five or six grand or lose five six grand

and with no worries because I know I could go to jail and get that back. Not good. It's not good. It was terrible. But when I'm in it, when I'm living it,

it justified it means when I was in it. Does anybody does anybody on the street? Because by now you're divorced. Yes. You're seeing your kids. periodically. I'm assuming your

wife got custody. So you're seeing your son, is it son, right? My son and daughter. Okay, you're seeing your son and daughter, everyone, you know, whatever, you know, a few times a week. Do you have a girlfriend at this point? You know,

had a couple of girlfriends. You know, I'm young. Listen, I'm still, you can be broke, right? But as long as you got this badge and run around the hood with a gun there's going to be somebody willing to be with you at all times

so are you still do you have your own place now or you're still hanging out at your well I'm in between I got I still live with my moms but now I have a female friend that I'm living with and now the money

the money is coming in because now I should make a lot of trips with tobacco to make money but then once I started doing other things like bringing in cell phones if it was an inmate's birthday i would uh you know those airport little nifts of liquor that they give you at they have what the single serving size yeah yes guess what five hundred dollars it's your birthday your mom your mom wants to do something for your birthday either he'll give me five hundred dollars or listen i'm gonna tell you i was a piece

of shit because I was, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in this life. So if your mom didn't have my whole $500, she could always supplement payment in various ways. And, and for $500, I will bring the little nip of liquor, put it in an iced tea bottle, lock you in your cell, because come on, everybody who don't smoke weed, if you're not a weed smoker, you could smell that 10 blocks away. Nobody in there got liquor. So they're going to smell liquor. Right.

So my thing is, the agreement is, if I bring this to you, you got to lock in for the day. Now, you'll lock in for your birthday. You'll be drunk, you know, and you enjoy your birthday. Happy birthday. You know, I got 500 bucks. You got a little sip of liquor. You know, your, does your girlfriend that you're with, does she know what's going on? Does anybody on the street know what's going on?

No. Nobody, guess what? I'm going to tell you. And, you know, one of the things, one of the hardest things for me doing this whole ordeal was to tell my mom, look her in the face and tell her that I'm guilty. Because you know, your mom don't believe you, your mom's going to fight the whole world for you. I know. He's right in the governor. They framed them.

My mom. I had to tell her that I was guilty. Now, the image that I had was Gary. joined the Marines. He's a decorated war veteran. And now he's a correction officer. Right. So only few people where I went to the gambling spot

knew that I was a CEO because these guys were in and out of jail. So they would see me in the jail and then he would see me on the street. Now, some people who didn't know that I was a correction officer because when you were correctional officer, your hours rotate every week

it's something called the wheel. One week, you're 7 or 3. Next week, you're 3 to 11. Next week, you work at midnight. So at different times, I would be in the gambling spot, during the day, during the night, this and that. So nobody knew, and I had money. So a lot of people didn't know that I was a correction officer. I was getting my pay. Well, my pay wasn't really anything due to child support, but my other activities. And then I would do overtime to make up for the money that I was losing. So I was making pretty decent money. So nobody really knew what I was doing until I got busted. I was on the front page of the local newspaper. That's when the, holy crap, then people thought, I knew it because they was like, I knew correctionalers to make that

kind of money that you would spend it. Yeah. I was going to say it's like Mike McDow has had multiple businesses. He's driving a brand new Corvette. It's like, what are you doing? You're a police officer at the end at that time when he was a cop he was a corrupt cop in new york like cops weren't making anything like obviously you're doing something so yes um what i was going to say is so how did it like how did you how did it progress from you're thinking it's just tobacco and then it becomes a cell phone like did you think so like um anybody who's doing crime when you get away you get away with it for a couple of times. You think you invented the wheel.

You think you covered your ass where nobody's going to leave back to you in the way. And you got people in place that are trustworthy now because y'all don't make money to go. So like a businessman, you're supply and demand. People, they were putting clamps down,

tapping inmate phone calls, stuff like that. Of course, you know, inmates, well, Ammings are not supposed to be having sex in jail. So what happened with me is I kind of became like a businessman, supply and demand. I've seen a need, whatever they needed. I found the way to get it to them safely, meaning I would have people west at the time.

Western Union media the money, right? Right. And it was a female correction officer that was willing, a willing participant. Now, I'm going to tell you something funny. a reporter read my book and did an article in the paper on full spread, how I bring in liquor,

coutes, tobacco cocaine, and prostituted female correction officers. Right. If you look at it, maybe I did, but not prostitution like you would say. When I look at prostitution, it's like, okay, I'm going to be you up if you don't go in and service this guy and give me the money.

Right. To me, that's prostituting and pimping women. Yeah. If the female is willing, and I'm just protection, I'm not forcing her to do anything. She just paying me to make sure she's okay. And what it is when I was corrupt, I knew the real guys in there that made a lot of money on the street. So I knew they would pay. So there's another thing, correction officers, if you're out there doing bad, inmates are going to talk regardless.

If they got a correctional's in their pocket That gives them status So if you think that they They're just going to be quiet And you know Y'all going to have this thing going for a hundred million years No, it's not going to happen So once she got wind of what I was doing

She propositioned me Because the way it went is I knew the guys that Was doing stuff She got time She got because a lot of times God was no, it makes for a lot to Yeah, my family

I make a lot of money the street and then when she would service them, she'll come up short. So the way it worked is they wanted to have sex. She was willing to have sex. Fifteen hundred or pop. I get 500. She gets a grand. And she did it like two or three times a week. How does that conversation go between you and the inmate and you and her? Okay. First of all, it has to be an inmate that I'm already working with. Right. No new guy out of random, this and that. So, of course, any inmate wants sex from, you know, if they can afford it.

So we're making money. Guys are paying their lawyers with money that we're making in that. And so once I got wind that he had the money and he wanted it to happen, what I would do was, I would get the money, give her her grand, take my 500, in the morning when nobody's there but me on post, she would come, take care of them in the utility closet. Because remember, at the time, there ain't no cameras all over the place. Right. And she would take care of them.

And you have to figure out a way to get both these people at the same place. And inmates don't have, they don't have the run of the facility. They can only go some places, some. An officer can take an inmate. Anywhere? Yeah. When I first became an officer and it was, you know, gunhole, I'm going to be the best CEO ever. It was a female that would come in my housing area, that didn't work in my housing area.

It was an inmate called Divine. I'm not going to call no Gromian Divine, but he was Devine. He has silk sheets and satin shirts because you've got to remember in Rikers Island, until you get convicted, you wear your own clothes. Really? Now, only when you go upstate and become, and go to prison, you get the greens and everybody wear the same thing. Right, because Dahlia, you're going back and fork, you've got to have your own clothes, sneakers, whatever. And this guy had alligator shoes, expensive shoes, and silk pants and sheets on his bed and all the kind of stuff.

And nobody ever went to himself to challenge him to test them or anything. And this female will come get him and walk him around in jail, and I'm new. So that means now in hindsight All these other officers knew about this guy on the street He was somebody So she would come And you know Certain inmates had certain privileges

So now When I'm running my housing area And if me and a female Know what's going on There's nobody else there So I would let the inmate out Tell them go and sweep and mop over here I'll go get the supplies and do this and that

When he would come out she would service them send them back to send them back up it didn't it wasn't a marathon so it was easy for her to take her

and it was easy 50 hundred bucks so and I and this is a a very superficial thing for me to say

okay and ask you what this chick look like uh it's not a superficial because you know better I'm saying

I'm sure she was I mean I've, you know, maybe, maybe she had a great personality or something. I don't know, but you know, because, okay, please, this is my disclaimer. I'm not saying all female correction officers, right? But throughout my 13 years dealing with the prison system. They're a rough bunch. Yes.

I've only seen, no, I've seen two that I thought, man, I'd, I'd nail her on the street, Like, I've only seen two. Yeah. In 13 years. I'm going to be honest with you. On Rikers Island, I could say there was a lot of fine female seals. But none of them fit the criteria of selling a body. Right.

To an image. So when you ask you about them, please forgive me. It's the, you do know, it's the not so great lookers, the low, because inmates play on these females that got low self-esteem, bro. I've seen a female wait for an inmate to get out of prison and be with him, right? Now, me and you men, like, I think, I could be wrong. Any ugly female out here can get sex with somebody. Somebody will definitely go to your house where nobody can see and meet you somewhere

where nobody knows that we together. So it's not, to me, I think there's no such thing as a female that can't get sex. But these inmates, they play on you. They see you those, they see that you. I'm just going to say, they see that you're ugly. They see you get low subesteem. They tell you you're beautiful. They treat you like you the best thing that ever happened.

And guess what? If you're not getting those compliments, if you're not getting that kind of attention on the street, you easy pickings. These inmates have got nothing but time. I'm going to tell you what they used to do. If they knew a certain female were coming to work, we plighten. We all plotting. So we'll get Josh, who's the. guy who works out, you can see all his bustle, six-packing everything, and he got a penis

about a foot long. Now, if he goes up and flashes a female officer, he know he's going to get his ass beat and he's going to the hospital. He knows that. But if he, one of our duties is, you know, checking the MA cells, looking in that window, making sure the MA ain't hanging himself or doing something that ain't not supposed to be doing. So when she's making her rounds, everybody knows they're tapped the wall, they give the signal, she's coming. So he would accidentally be sleeping with his Johnson out. Right. Right.

And she would come and accidentally see his Johnson. She may be on the wall, hey, cover yourself up. Oh, I'm sorry, C.O. I didn't know. I was sleeping. So now he's not in trouble, but she's not going to forget that I saw this guy's thing. Right. The next throughout time, if she's giving him special privileges,

if she don't allow nobody to talk to her. Now he's having conversations with her. So now everybody's putting them up there. See if you could bring, she'll bring us this. So they're all plotting. They all plotting. And it's going to be to the time where if she really,

if he really gets in her head, she's going to have sex with him. Yeah. She's going to make a way. So now this individual, because it was a couple of females that was with it throughout my career. You know, and besides their correctional officer pay, Some of them making two or three grand a week.

And you can always tell because they blow themselves up because all of a sudden they got nice cars, nicer cars. And they're coming in with meat coats on and stuff like that. So, you know, in hindsight, when you sit back and look and you know the layer of land, no. So, yeah. So what about cell phones?

Like, what does a cell phone go for? At the time, they had these little small, small phones like this. Yeah. A flip phone. That I'm going to be honest with you, that is easy for an inmate to booth inside his behind. Right.

To regulate that, they had calling cards where you could buy 10 minutes worth of time, 15 minutes worth of time. So depending on the situation, how bad you wanted to talk to somebody that don't, and your lawyer and you don't want to use the Rikers Island phone, I'll be easy on you, 250 to 500.

you know, I give you the phone. You get 10 minutes to talk to whoever you want to talk to. You bring my phone back into the next time somebody wants to use it. I mean, I was running my organization like it was a business, cell phone, liquor, this and that. So I mean, it sounds crazy, but it's not further from the truth. So you're keeping the phone. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I had an inmate one time trying to keep the phone. And I had to put a hit out. Oh, no. what do you mean how what do you mean a hit like this is what it is right we want you establish yourself and you're doing dirt i'm going to say doing dirt nobody no emma wants that messed up so somebody comes along and it's just like if you're doing selling drugs in the street don't be shooting and killing nobody because then you're going to bring the cops here and it's bad for business so there's the same thing in the jail

don't be fighting and cutting and stabbing because we got a good thing going right here anybody who steps out of line i don't even have to say anything so when i say i put a hit out on i just let it be known that listen if i don't get my phone back by the end of the day it's going to be a problem and the way things happen if forget me being corrupt day-to-day basis if inmates fight to prevent them from fighting you may have 30 30 inmates two of them get into a fight when us as a squad coming there we smack in and beating down everybody because these two individuals fought and that's that's the way it was so this prevented anybody you know what's going to happen now if i beat a inmate up because he didn't

have nothing to do with your argument when i leave yeah he's going to be it's another problem i was going to say you can always just go and say look i'll just go i'm just going to pick 10 10 cells randomly and I'm going to find something from every one of you guys and I'm going to take it until I get my ship back and they'll you know and all you look like you're doing is I'm just doing my job. I'm shaking. That's right. I'm supposed to shake down so many cells a day. And I hear two or three guys and I know I'm going to get something good. They're going to be upset. Well, he didn't give you back my phone. Neither is to say. I had a bunch of sneakers screeching and scratching and going on and I got my phone back. Right. And he went to the clinic. So what do you make in a month doing this? I couldn't pinpoint, I think at one time, I had about, because guess what, I very rarely did I have to take my own money out the bank. So my check direct deposit, so I was living off what I was doing in the street. So at one time I could say I had about 40,000, 40,000 sitting on my bed stacked up. And various different times because I was losing a lot of money gambling, making it back, slurging, So I can't just say, oh, definitely I made this amount.

But I made pretty decent money. I had more than a couple of cars. You know, to me, I was living a life of a drug dealer that was out on the street. Several hours law enforcement. Right. So the money came and it went. So how often, like not how often, but were there any times that the, I don't know, I don't say upper echelon, but basically like the, I don't know what, I don't know what the ranks are in, in the state, but it's like the lieutenants, the warden, the assistant warden, that, you know, yes.

And I don't know, you know, in federal prison, let's say they know stuff's going on. If it becomes blatant, then they have to, they have to investigate it, find somebody, and then they have to act extremely offended. I can't believe you would do this. It'd be like, come on, stop, bro. You know, this is happening. So I'm saying, were there any investigations that came close to you? you but you skated the investigation or it didn't or nothing happened until a boom it just came down nothing happened until boom but i had somebody in security right tell me that

word on the street is no i'm going to tell you what happened one time where i think the investigation on me started you had the latin kings and the bloods about to fight in the mess hall so we had all the officers gearing up putting on riot gear about to go in trying to diffuse something that's about to happen so me just being who i am walked into the mess hall in the middle of all this hostility that was going back and forth between the blacks and Hispanics soon as i walk in there everybody calms down everybody calms down everybody goes and sit down and to their at their table. I'm unaware of what was going on before I got there.

So there's a captain that turns and look at me. And she says, who are you? And I said, I'm Officer Hayward, you know, I'm Officer Gary Hayward, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said, no, who are you? And when she asked me there, I got to chill because it's the same question, but I know what she's getting at because now these inmates are like, hey, what's up, hey, what, how are you doing?

It makes that I don't know. Right. Hey, what's up, Hey, Wood? So now I know somebody's rapping. Somebody's talking. In my mind, the gig is up at that point. So then months will go by, and then a guy was like talking crap like security

on what they're talking about. You know, they're talking about, if you want to get rid of all the drugs in the jail, get rid of Haywood you know that that yeah it got like that so I chilled out right right

I chilled out to the wait a second hold on so at this point you're you're also bringing in drugs you're bringing what marijuana what is it everything or are you just I'm bringing in I'm bringing in the only thing I didn't bring in was I didn't bring in the weapons because I didn't want my

housing area hot because the housing area I was in if you were in a news paper, you were in my house in here. Okay. Mad bodies, drug king pens, all kind of violence and stuff. I had the highest classification house on, you know, in the jail. It caught eight upper. These are all high profile guys. Yes. Yes. I remember the time the stalker that stalked Serena Williams, the tennis player. Right. They arrested him and he was on the front page of the paper. The inmates knew he was coming to how I was in there. As soon as he walked in and there,

they put the tennis on TV to torture them. So once I felt that the gig was up, I tried to escape. When I tried to escape, I put in for a transfer to go to another jail. I'm going to start a new, you know, because in the height of what I was doing, I was bringing in cell phones, liquor, weed, and crack cocaine. and

I kind of knew that I wasn't the only officer doing it. That's how I elevated from from weed and cigarettes. An inmate came and told me, listen, over there on the north side, they're getting it over there. I'm like, what do you mean getting it?

He said, they're getting it. They got coke, and then he showed me a sample of what was, so I'm like, oh, I got competition. Now, at this time, nothing that was dawned on me that you're going to get caught. Listen, I have my workers. I have my workers that work the staff kitchen.

I have my workers that work the Muslim service. I have my workers that work the gym, that work the yard. So I have people going and coming and it worked like clockwork. And guess what? To the point where I really didn't have to touch nothing, per se, and made money. So you think you're untouchable. And, of course, don't forget, I got the shield in my integrity. And I'm going to say, hey, what?

How dare you accuse me? you know so um we were at uh the uh the uh the chow hall there was an issue the one officer and then some people started saying you want to get rid of the drugs in the jail get rid of hayward yeah so i i try to get i i got transferred to another jail right and i said i'm going to be the model correction officer that's it for me uh at this time they had reduced the child support so I was making decent regular pay right and I said I'm going to stop um so I'm in I'm in a jail that's called the tombs right it's all for Rikers Island but it's like the courthouse it's like as soon as you get arrested you go to tombs and then from the tombs you go to Rikers

Island so I'm in there and like the first day first two days there everything's going well I'm working with a partner mine and we're handing and it's like a intake area where you just got arrested like 30 years for 60 or one cell so it's feeding time and we give him these hard peanut butter sandwiches and a carton of milk right so i noticed an inmate old emma didn't get up off the floor to get his milk another emma is like if he don't want his milk or his peanut butter sandwich i'll take it so the officer not caring gave it to him long story short they went by the emma was dead in the pen right no and from officer neglect Nobody went over to check on them, tap them, make them stand up,

because you're supposed to make them stand up to come, even if they don't want the peanut butter sandwich. Right. So that we know that you didn't get poked up or nothing happened to you in there. So I'm working there, and I'm thinking, I'm thinking I escaped. But lo and behold, I get modified. I get modified. And I get modified by a captain that came in.

with me. Matter of fact, me and his captain, I'm going to tell you what happened. I'm brand new on the job. And me and this captain both brand new on the job. So we're in this housing area. And an inmate is challenging me. And I'm, you know, being, you know, the CEO that I am, I tell him, when I come back from lunch, me and you, I'm going to take this shield off, I'm going to you up, right? Boom. I go to lunch. Alarm happens. So alarm, this is, you know, alarm is where all, officers sitting in a lunch area and then a bell rings that

lets us know another officer is having a problem that we all got to go to the housing area to help the officer. Right. We got to put the ride gear on and everything. Alam happens. I put the riot gear on and I run with the squad, like 12 of us down there and I noticed we go into my housing area that I just left. When I

get there, the officer comes out stuttering. She says gunshots. And we like gunshots. She said, somebody in there shot a gun off inside the house in there. And I could tell it was real because all the inmates was at the gate, trying to want to get out, not wanting to be in there because somebody in there shooting.

Right. So one by one, we took the inmates out, pat him down, laid them on the floor, handcuffed him. Pat him down, laid them on the floor handcuffed to all the inmates were out. When we went inside, we saw an inmate laying on the bed with a gun. gunshot wound inside the jail. Okay. Yeah, how would you get a gun in the jail? But, okay, I mean, other than an officer bringing it.

So you weren't, you were a model officer for this. At that time. Yes. At that time. So that was like the first sign that, hmm, stuff is crazy. And then you look at at the senior officers, they're looking like this is nothing new to them. To me, how did a gun get in and then the guy gets shot? But long story short, somebody smoked a gun in there to the inmate so the inmate can shoot another inmate and they can get a big lawsuit against the city.

Because how am I getting shot inside the jail? And they didn't find the gun, they found the gun, but they don't know who shot him. No. Okay. Later on he talked, they found out everything. That's how I know it was an intricate plot to sue the city. So what did they? Because guess what? Whether they did or not, I don't know, but it still may raise a whole bunch of eyebrows. How did this gun get inside the jail? And the same guy that was with me when we found the gun is the same guy years later that modified me, that came, told me to meet him in his office, took my shield, took my gun, and told me I'm placed on restricted duty, and that they would notify me. me, why? Now, like I told you, I thought I escaped from Rikers Island in that lifestyle. So

for four months, I'm sweating, trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I covered, I died in my eyes, I crossed my teeth, who snitching, who could have did this, who could did that? Because I knew they're not going to modify me if they don't have something. So that was like the beginning of the end. Now I'm on a restricted duty. I'm not on Ragged's Island. I'm in a jail in Queens working the elevator

away from inmates and away from everybody else waiting to see what's going to happen. You know, and then it happened. How long? So how long were you it was four months? About four months. They came to my home. They took me down to office.

And they set me down. uh police internal affairs for the jails yeah okay so they sat me in office and they said um uh you know why you're here no i'm playing dumb no because i'm going to take everything with me to the grave i know you never caught me with no drugs i have no drugs on me no drugs in my car no drugs nowhere so let's find out what what you got right so they say we just want to show you something so i'm sitting at a table and i look at a screen on the wall and they have a video of me meeting a girl outside and she's handing me the drugs the drugs that i was so comfortable and careless i've been doing this a while with her

that i didn't check it i didn't look in the bag and i took it right inside to the inmate it was marked drugs so she was coming to testify and the inmate was coming to testify to get less time that i met her that had me on video They had me look at the video. They asked me, is that me? I wouldn't acknowledge that that's me, but it was me, like, clear as day. And so that was my downfall. The marked drugs went inside, and to get lesser time, they were coming to court to testify against me.

The thing that shocked me and my family was in the front page of the paper, because I've been on the front page of the paper four or five times. They said, if convicted of all charges, he'd feel. faces the rest of his life in jail. So that shook me, but my street knowledge said, no, that's them stacking the charges. Yeah, we got them for 35 charges. We're stacking them. And there's 10, you know, 10 years apiece.

It could be 300 years. That's natural life. That's, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So did they arrest you? They just showed it to you. They showed me that video.

And once I wouldn't. After that, I clamped up. So once I climbed up, they told me stand up. They read me my rights. They took these handcuffs and put them on me. And they booked me, they booked me along with six other officers that was doing it in other jails. So basically, they had me already. They was just building a case so that people could see that, oh, the internal affairs is really on them.

and they really try to prevent the drugs from coming inside the jail. So I got booked front page of the paper. I was going to bail out. And when I went to arraignment, I looked behind me, my mother, my sister, because I tried to handle it myself, okay? I know I'm an officer.

Of course, I've never been in trouble before. No, that didn't fly. So they booked me, and they wouldn't take me to Rikers Island. Because once word got to Rikers Island, they started rioting because the inmates considered me a good dude. I was so much of a good dude that when I got, when I really got booked and went upstate, they laid, all the gang members labeled me bulletproof. I mean, don't hurt him. Don't touch him. Because he was a good guy. I looked out for a lot of people. Right. So, I mean, you, but you didn't bond out? Like, what was the bond? Or they wouldn't allow you,

they didn't give you bond? They gave me like $30,000. bond. I could have bailed out easy. But in my mind, I knew they had me. Yeah. In my mind, I'm going to need that money. You know, for whatever time that they was going to give me. I didn't know at the time. And I wasn't going to waste on some lawyer because I seen what they had. You got somebody to testify. You got me on film. You know, so all of them.

was a waiting game for me to see how much time they was going to give me you know they came back with various offers and stuff like that and um what was the first offer first over was um what four and a half to 12 okay and what does that mean i don't i only know i know i know the federal system so if you in four years you can you can get um parole if you if the parole board board allows it. Yes. Maximum you'll do is 12. 12 years. Okay. So I was going to take it.

Are you serious? I was going to take it. But I called home and mom went to put all the chips in there because I had the money. See, nobody knew what I was doing so nobody know I had the money. Right.

So just when I was take it, I guess I took too long to answer, thank God. They came with another offer because they wanted to get a conviction. So they came with two flat, two years flat, but one year post-release supervision. I ripped his shirt. I ripped his shirt getting the pin out of his pocket to sign that agreement. Because I knew it was no such thing of me just because other officers bailed out, right, and fought it. By the time I came home from prison, they were going in. Right. I already knew. So I said, let me, that two years, I already had been in there five months. I only had to do 20 months out of the 24 months, and then one year, give me that.

You know, even though it was horrific because being law enforcement locked behind the bars, I'm going to tell you what they did. I've never been in trouble before a day in my life. So I'm thinking I can get work release, get some kind of program, and go home within two, three months, maybe six months. I get in there, and the sergeant, when you go to prison,

everybody gets a physical. They want to know if you got any kind of anything. So it's like a gymnasium for the officers and inmates, one by one, getting a physical, getting shots, whatever you want to get. So in front of a gymnasium for the hundreds and hundreds, the inmates and sergeant said hey would stand up so i stood up and loud so it was quiet as church in there he said how long were you a correction officer on rikers island the yeah but wait a minute

i thought you so i thought so you're i did that so the inmates didn't know like these same inmates at this prison aren't thinking he's a good guy no well Guess what? Certain inmates that has certain status, sit work. He's a good guy, right? But they don't control all the inmates. Yeah. So what the sergeant did, he did that.

So he said, listen, to protect you and my officers, now I've got to put you in protective custody. So once they put you in protective custody, you can't be awarded work release. or any kind of program. So that means you got to do the whole two years. Right. And you got to, I was going to say, you're going to spend a lot of time in your cell.

22 hour lockdown. I was 22 hour lockdown, one hour to, I guess, recreation, take a shower. You can either take a shower, use the phone or go or go to rec. I can't do all three. You can't even do too. That's it. That's it. That is it.

Um, did you get good time? You get good time on two years, right? Four months. Four months. Yeah. So. What about halfway house? Once you're in protective custody, none of those programs are afforded to you. Now, if I took the risk, like I was a tough guy as they put me in general population as a correction officer, I probably wouldn't be here today.

Yeah, could have gone bad. I was going to say, I, you know, when you had mentioned that story, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I was locked up in a county jail. I mean, it was a U.S. Marshall's holdover, but they're in county jails. They just have one little one pod where it's for the federal age or federal inmates. So I was in this pod and there was a guy.

Listen, this is a black guy, big guy. He had to be six foot three, six four big guy. But keep in mind, there's maybe 50 guys in this unit. and 30 of them, maybe 35 are all Mexican. Okay. Maybe there's like 10 black guys, four or five white guys. So this, the big black guy decided, and there's one TV. And we're all in one unit, you know, one big pod.

And there's cells in each cell holds. There's like five cells and each cell holds, whatever, 10 guys. So finally, after a week of this guy being here, he comes up. and he's decides he's not watching you know mix him mix or spanish tv anymore and he walked up and he just changes the tv and i mean these guys go nuts and they they're screaming hollering and they go to turn back and he pushes one of the guys back like no we're not i'm running this tv now we're watching what i want to watch and you ain't going to do nothing and um yeah so so the the i later talked to him after the uh mexicans jumped on him i mean there was like 10 of them like they

only only 10 of them attacked him because only 10 could get to him at one time later uh when i saw that dude again uh in i don't know if it was in the shoe or if it was at i think it was at acdc i saw him he was thinking he might have been in my same pot and i said hey bro i said what were you thinking he goes and he looked at me he goes man they're little bro they're like your size cockley they're smaller than you those guys some of those guys are five two five three i thought i can take them and he said and i said but you you couldn't take him and he goes no there was 10 of them he said it doesn't matter how big you are you're there's ten of these guys he's and he said look once they got him on the ground talk about somebody

screaming he went from being a a big badass to squealing i mean And I mean, it was like, Jesus. Like, and, you know, and I was like, yeah, bro, there's 10. Like, they're all. Like, he's like, yeah, once that one, one of them got a hold of my leg and they've just yanked my leg out and I hit the ground and they all jumped on me. He said, I realize I got up. Really fucked up.

Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I get, you know, and these guys didn't have knives. Like, they didn't come out of with knives. They just beat the hell out of them. So on a non, on general population where. where the inmates have knives, it could go really bad. It could go really bad. I don't care how to tough you up.

I've had officers get revenge or use tactics where they'll put a crib in all bloodhouse. Yeah. And one time the crypt went in there, big guy. Now, you know the cell phone is our eyes to the world. I'm not the telephone talking to your family, your girl, your kid, your friend telling you, yeah, such, such went on here,

blah, blah, blah. He took the phone. He threw a full of shank out, a knife, a homemade knife, put it in the middle of the floor and said, this is my phone now. Whoever wants this phone, meet me and myself. Yeah.

We had to get them out of the hospital, but guess what? In jail, these guys tried. Think about it. That black guy let's say none of the Mexicans were brave enough to jump on him guess what that mean he run that TV mm-hmm no way he's going to challenge him you know what's so funny is you and I talking about this mm-hmm to someone you know on the street that's never been locked up for any length of time I mean going to jail for three days doesn't mean shit you know but for somebody who's never been locked up for any

length of time like they have no idea it sounds stupid to them But they have no idea how important those things are and how serious that situation of the phone, the TV, going in your cell, walk someone walking in your cell, being respectful to each other. Yes. Taking someone, you know, someone's, um, biscuit off of their, their, their tray or, you know, like here it's like, whatever. Who care? But in prison, it suddenly becomes over. It's, it's, it's worth fighting. It's worth. you know stabbing someone it's worth beating them it's worth you know whatever like it's it's insane how important those things are when you're limited to when you're down to nothing yes people will fight over a magazine a pencil a book i want to the guy get the hell beat out of him with a belt and a lock because he lost a guy's book yeah i gave it to a guy and the guy lost it and i don't

know what to say and he was like yo bro well you owe me it's nine bucks for a new one you owe me nine bucks. He said, go look yourself. Man, that dude said, all right, walked off, came back two minutes later. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Just guys screaming blood all over the hell. I mean, it was like, and this guy was tiny too, the guy that beat him up. I remember his name was truck. He was like five foot two. I was like, truck. Listen, to me, the most dangerous inmate is the crackhead that came out of the street that don't have no family, don't have no money, don't have nothing. It was a mob guy.

I mean, he was a serious, connected guy that could have people go to your family, go to your house. Right. And visit your family. And this guy was on the phone. He didn't have much, but he had a little time on the phone. And the mob guy snashes the phone,

hung up his phone call, and, you know, basically got he had, blah, blah, blah, this snack. Yeah, he wants to use the phone. And he threatened them. He said, listen, I'll have them come over there. I'll make one phone call, and they'll be at your house tomorrow.

Literally, they just know this guy that in a half. He was onus. So he comes back, and he takes the court, and he wraps it around this guy to get into it, and he starts choking him. As he's choking him, he grabs his hand, starts stomping on his hand, and breaks his hand, breaks his fingers. And as we come in there, rushing the handcuff, and he tells us, him. How

you going to call somebody with no fingers? Right. He didn't care. Like, call you want to call. I don't have nobody. I have nothing to lose. So all those things, commissary, phone call, letters, visits,

a pack of chips, TV. If everybody, when I was like that, they love, what is that, King from Queens. They just love watching the rerun at the rerun. We don't see hundred tons, but everybody gathered around and watch it. I mean, yeah, it is

crucial. And people don't know, they take for granted. I remember M.A. She used to ask me all the time, hey, well, you're going to go home, right? And you're going to go and you're going to have a beer tonight. Right? A beer.

Right? Or soda. No, it has something that was just everybody would normally have that they missed. Right. I was like, yeah, I'm going to have a and they just sit there and be envious, want me to tell the whole story about how I want to drink a beer, you know. But.

So you did, so you did almost two years in protective custody and you get out, no halfway house.