Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Picasso of Thieves: Secrets of an Art Heist Genius

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

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So how long were you painting and doing this? 35 years. Are you serious? 35 years? I mean, how often were you taking stuff? All the time. Right. The addiction got so bad, Matthew, and the thing is that when something becomes so easy,

and I'm going to tell you, this is all psychological. This has nothing to do with whatever you may think it is. This is all psychological game. The planning, what you're going to pick out, the people. in the room, who could possibly get blamed, decides myself, because I'm a clean-cut guy. You put me up against an Irish guy that I was working with that's drinking all the time and comes in Monday morning. It's obvious.

He took it. You know what I'm saying? Hey, this is Matt Cox. I am going to be interviewing Picasso. He is an art thief that was tremendously successful and he did it in a really, interesting, unique way. And I'm actually going to be going to the premiere of a movie or a documentary about him. And so let's go ahead and check out the interview. Let's start at the, I mean, the beginning. Like, where were you, where were you born? I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York,

sunset parks being back. And I mean, how were you raised, you know, middle class, lower middle class, We were below poverty level, specifically. My dad wasn't in my life, so it was just my mom. My mom had myself, my little brother, and my two older sisters. So it was, you know, she was on food stamps, but she worked. But, you know, we would wake up sometimes without food in the refrigerator. And it was hard. It wasn't easy.

Okay. So what did you, so do you graduate high school or did you? you. I went straight from a high school, which was Fort Hamilton High School to Kingsborough Community College. And then I attended a business school at York Business School in Manhattan. Okay. You know, my thing was, my thing, Matthew, was that after my father left, I had a really traumatic incident with my father. My father was an alcoholic and he verbally and physically abused my mother. you know so after he left he left when I was sick but um at the age of 10 I realized that

I couldn't let my mother you know struggle alone so I got a job with the Daily News as a paperboy you know I did the hustle I learned really early in my life you know I think most of my education wasn't in school it was on the street so you but eventually I mean eventually you graduated high school you went on to try and you wanted to help help your mom on a you wanted to make some money, help her out. Like, what was your plan to, what were you planning on doing for a living? As a kid, the whole time I went straight through junior high school and high school and college and even the business school I took accounting. But then I realized that I couldn't, I have a lot of anxiety.

I suffer from severe anxiety. Like, you have no idea. So I figured I couldn't do a company. I can't sit behind a desk doing some numbers. So I got a job as a painter when I was 19. And that was it. I mean, I was on Park Avenue. My first real gig as a professional painter was right on Park Avenue for the 1% of America,

the richest, the ultra wealthy of America. Well, when you say a painter, you mean what type of? of a painter. Just a regular house you were painting building commercial

residential all residential all decorative finishes full finishes gold leafing wood graining a lot of exotic finishes

like Marmarino where we put the finish on the wall and then we put some micastones in it so that way it shows like diamonds out through your wall

it's just beautiful finishes all exotic stuff, stuff that comes from Paris. All the finishes that they have in Paris, we duplicate on sample board, and we do this on some of the highest

grossing buildings in Manhattan. You know, 770 Park Avenue. You know, some of the billionaires row, you name it, and we've done it. On day one, I walked into Park Avenue. This was a $250 million apartment.

Gorgeous apartment. I mean, things in the windows from the floor literally from the floor to the ceiling you know 68th floor of this building amazing building but anyway there was so much artwork that the artwork was not only hanging on the wall but it was in boxing you know it was ready to go to where it was going to go and at that point I felt in love I mean I've always loved art but not to that extent like what it's one thing to see it from a distance in a museum that you can't touch it you can't feel it but it literally is something else to be in front of it it's uh it's something that'll change your life i mean if you if you can understand art art is not something that you

just has not a guy with a brush it's zigzagging his thing and you know that's what he did you know what i'm saying this is something that someone put a lot of passion and love into when people follow the artwork. I mean, people follow artwork all around the world for years. You know, there's followers. There's dedicated followers. Right.

But on this job, that was it. That was the key. I got to Park Avenue with all that artwork. How are you going to resist that? You see, I've always been a criminal. There's just been scales to it. You know what I'm saying? It's always been, you know,

know since I was 10 I've always been a hustler so by the time I got to 19 forget about it but you weren't an artist yourself like you didn't actually you didn't do art you just had a passion for it and now you're watching but now I was walking in to um and with this company that we did specialty finishes so if you translate the speciality finishes and So let's say regular paintings, you know, it's the same language. There's no difference. What happened? Like what was the first time that you, you know, well, I guess what was the first time you actually took something?

And what was the plan? Were you thinking, eh, these people have a lot of stuff. They're not going to miss this one thing? or were you thinking I can sell this or? No. No, you see, it was never a monetary thing because artwork, artwork is unlike anything else. Artwork is, there's no black market for artwork.

Somebody tells you there is like, you know, I'm not going to call my cousin Louis and say, yo, Louis, what's the number for the black market again? You know, that doesn't exist. hard work I yeah it's meant to be appreciated and it would be an insult just to sell it to some random person it's just that's not what I did it for I did it for the thrill I did it for the ability to see if I can do it and the plan came together on the very first job and I never stopped after that well so what was the first job

the very first job was the park avenue job when I I saw this particular painting. It was a small painting. It wasn't that. It wasn't this extravagant painting. And at the beginning, I didn't know what the value of the painting was either. But I fell in love with the painting, and I decided that that painting was going to go with me. We spent two months on that job, and by the end of those two months, I had already duplicated it.

It was a very simple duplication. It wasn't a complicated painting. It was one of those pencil etches, you know, I duplicated it myself on the call a copy. I couldn't tell you that. Okay. I was saying, you know, like, it's funny because I know that, you know, Picasso was, you know, Picasso was, so I don't know if you know this. I have a degree in fine arts from that. No, no, I didn't know that.

Yeah, yeah, from the University of South Florida, which, so I'm actually an artist. So I don't know. Yeah, I, so, I mean, I, watch a couple of the things, but you don't mention that. You're always into the podcast, into the person you're interviewing. So I do that. I do YouTube. I wrote a bunch of books when I was in prison, a bunch of true crime books. I wrote a memoir about myself.

And then I got out and, you know, I liked true crime. So I started also, I started doing a podcast when I got out. I didn't think I was actually, you know, I didn't really know how to do any of this. But I just kind of figured it out, you know, had some people help me. And now it's starting to come together. But in the meantime, I did artwork and people buy my artwork. And so, yeah, so that's why I was saying. Like, it's like, so I know.

So when, you know, you say Picasso, like Picasso, Picasso was one of the few artists. that was famous during his lifetime. You know what I mean? Like most artists, they scraped by, you know, and then they, you know, they passed away. And then their artwork became worth something later in life. Like there wasn't a lot of artists, you know, Edward Munch was never, like, he sold like one painting his whole life. Like, you know, now he's huge.

Now, you know, they're huge paintings. But Picasso was famous in his lifetime. And one of the things I know that he did is I know that there are hundreds of little drawings he did. Like he would be at a restaurant, someone would recognize him. And they say, oh, can I get your, this is, these are the stories I heard. I'm sure you probably know more than I do. But one of the things I had always heard was the stories were that like he'd be at a restaurant and someone would come up to him and say, can I get your autograph? And he'd go, yeah, yeah, just let me finish and I'll give you an autograph.

They'd go, okay. And then he'd finish up his meal and he would doodle something on a napkin or a piece of paper and sign his name and give it to him. You know, so they'd get this little thing that was, no, baby, it was just cute. But now they're selling for $35 and $45,000 and $100,000 for little doodles. And people have them. so that's why when you know i i heard that you know your story and i heard that you you you know because i watched part of it where they you know i guess at some point you kind of looked around and you realized like nobody's here nobody's watching me there's no cameras

there's all this article that wasn't my thought process no that was the second time i've been there Yeah, that was the second time I was there. Oh, this was, I thought you ultimately, you did this, you did it, I thought you did it in several different places, though, right? You didn't look around and think nobody's watching? This particular, the very last time where I was, when the reality show was filmed, I had been to this particular mansion out in Kingspoint on a prior occasion a few years. ago. And everything that went missing on that time, let's just say 10% of it was reported missing and 90% was never reported missing. You know, so when I went back to the house the second time, you see, there's a lot of things that change from first time and second time.

the second time I went back to the house when the house was fully bugged with cameras and the SWAT was there and they were everywhere I was high I had smoked two blunts you know to get to work that morning

I smoked two blunts I was calm you know life was good you know I had nothing to worry about so all the red flags I avoided the red flag you know there was so many red flags

there was a red flag that there was a hallway door that I had previously remember I was in the house before so there was a hallway door that goes from one side to the other and that hallway door was locked

and I knew what was on the other side of the door because I already had been on the other side of the door but I should have abandoned ship at that point that would have been a red flag that would have been no go but I was high, I was calm

you know I got a little maybe a little sloppy you know And at that point, I felt that home. I was checking my signatures, validating the paintings, and I was taking what I wanted. That was it. Well, but this isn't the first time. This is further.

No, this is the last. Okay. So the first time you take it, you swap out this piece of artwork. Yeah, because I didn't want to steal it. Right. And we just plan not feel it. If you see it's stolen, it's gone, obviously, if you take that pulse of it, Yeah, and me, I'll know it's going.

Right. But if you swap it out, then you don't know anything is going on. Right. And so they didn't notice. They never noticed. And we took, this is over a span of, I believe the apartment took us,

this was just an apartment. I believe it took us three months to paint the apartment. Okay. So it was in a fast three months, from the planning to the execution. For a limited time, I'm at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio.

Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. That's a long time to paint an apartment. You can pay my whole house in a day. This is Park Avenue. This is a really charged $10,000 a room.

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pulled it off. It's insanity. The bizarre, true story of a bipolar megalomaniac's insane plan for total world domination. Available now on Amazon and So three months, you swipe this one piece and then you go to the next job and there's artwork there or no? At the next job, it was a vacant job. There was nothing inside the apartment. No, so there was nothing to, it wasn't always, it wasn't always, it wasn't always, it was either hit or miss. Right. But most apartments, 95% of apartments, usually had an art collection.

And I mean a art collection, right, like 300, 400 pieces at the minimum. That's a collection. Yeah, that's insane. And are all these, is all this famous artwork or is some people are just collector? Some people, that's the thing is, you see, these people, I think you said it best. At the very beginning of the show, you said it best that,

Most artists, when they put stuff out, they put it out, nobody cares, you know, who cares? So these people are just collecting things that they love, they admire, something that they want to decorate the house with, something that would look good on an architectural digest, because we've done that, too, is the architectural digest. We've done a couple of issues to architectural digest. So, you know, this is not about investment in artwork. You know, the artist is a blow. even Andy Warhol. Andy Warhol was his famous

for Vietnam. All right. Yeah, I was going to say that there's lots of there's lots of people that are just the rich people that they collected just because it's like,

oh, I like that piece. And, you know, John and Mabel Ringling, you know, they collected tons and tons of stuff and stuff they collected wasn't, you know, they just collected

because they liked, like I like this piece. You know, they'd have one piece that was worth, you know, $100,000 next to another piece that you could find practically in a garage sale. You know what I'm saying? It was worth virtually nothing, you know. But in the end, you know, almost everything ended up being, it ends up being worth something. But a lot of stuff that they collected, the artists weren't even,

weren't even well known at the time. And then after their death, the collection became worth hundreds of millions of dollars. um so and i just i just always wonder if that's how it how it goes just in general so how long were you painting you were you painting and so and over the span of this these things like if the opportunity arises and there's something you see and you like and you think i can i can work this out you you you took advantage of that situation correct and then other times there was just nothing there. Like you weren't interested in anything and I'm not interested. Because like you said, you're not selling it. You can't, you can't go look and steal a rimbra.

The thing was, I was, I was supposedly happily married, you know, supposedly happily married, you know, great wife, great income, you know, the painting wasn't going to go anywhere and nobody's going to know where I got it from. you know, when I brought it home, I put it on a wall, you know, and nobody knew anything about value in my household. This wasn't, you know, so it just went on a regular wall and a regular house. But, you know, I appreciated it. It was always the centerpiece, something I can look at every single day and admire, you know. Have you ever heard of the Gardner Museum heist? Yes, the one that I believe still is not.

solved yeah right yeah they you know like those paintings like i was think to myself like these guys stole a ton of paintings worth a hundred million dollars or 200 million they can't move like you couldn't move those paintings no you can't sell those like what was in blue market right i was just assume i was thinking to myself like they're probably hanging on somebody's you know somebody's in someone's garage sitting in a garage or they're hanging on somebody's wall and they have no idea what's even on their wall or they think it's uh it's it's a replica they probably don't even realize what they have um so did you ever come close to getting caught i got caught only that last time when they did the reality show and um that was the thing is you know that if you listen

the name of the reality show is called the brooklyn d a and i'm featured in episode number one and three. And if you listen to the detective and you listen to the BA in the reality show, they pretty much tell you if he doesn't take anything, you don't have him on anything.

Right. But remember, I was already there. And I just told you that 90% of the stuff was never reported. So, you know,

everything's on video. If you, if you go out, you can YouTube it and you can see it. You can hear that comments and all that. but um dude i was coming out of there with something but the problem was once i if i wouldn't just

listen to the inside the spider sense if i wouldn't have got arrested that day that still would have been out and about your intuition right like i always say that intuition like you got to listen to your intuition you got to uh like you know it's funny too because intuition like people shrug it off But the truth is, like, every chick I've ever dated, knew I was, or cheated on, knew I was eating before. Like, nothing's wrong. They just know. And you're like, nah, you're crazy. And I'm thinking, what, everything's fine.

I didn't do anything. I came home at the same time. I did everything. How did she? Intuition. She knew. You know, if some girl you're dating, something's not right. Even if she comes home at the same time, everything's, but you know, you're like, nah, what's something's up.

Can't put your finger on. Your intuition tells you something's wrong. You got to listen to it. When I came out of the mansion, I was in my Mercedes, and I stopped at a stop sign, and I look in the rear view of mirror, and I see a camera crew running across the road with a big light in a camera. And I was like, that's odd. That is odd.

I was so high, and then SWAT came from everywhere. Dude, they executed two search warrants, one in Pennsylvania at my house, where my ex-wife was pregnant, and then one at my, at the job site in Kingspoint, Long Island, at the same exact time within seconds. So this reality TV show, what they, how to, tell me about that. I don't know even know what that is. The Brooklyn DA is a reality show about cases that were specifically taken on by the Brooklyn District Attorney. And it profiles my case as a case of a very prestigious spark collection that a painter walks into one day and walks out with paintings.

And they show me in an episode number one and three. And they had the whole mansion rig. Not only the mansion, they had the, like I said, said the camera crew was running across the street. They had another camera crew in Pennsylvania, you know, for the SWAT team. You know, it was a whole reality show put together. And it led to some very strange and eerie circumstances throughout my case that, Matt, I could tell you, we're insane. You know what I'm saying?

It was just crazy. You're saying reality TV show. I mean, it sounds more like a sting. It wasn't a thing, but it was. It was also reality. So they knew you had taken something. They thought. They thought.

They rigged the whole place with cameras. They put a situation together that they knew you'd be in the mansion by yourself. And they just hoped you'd take something. Yes. Okay. What did you take? I took a Picasso painting. I took a Devo Fe and I took one other.

I forgot the name of it. But the crazy thing is two of the paintings, were never recovered and they still let me out isn't that weird right because maybe they're hoping

you would lead them to the paintings yeah I should have enough of that one how long ago what year was this this was we're going to go 10 years ago 2011

2012 somewhere around there. So how long were you painting and doing this? 35 years. Are you fucking serious? 35 years? I mean, how often were you taking stuff? All the time.

Right. The addiction got so bad, Matthew. And the thing is that when something becomes so easy, that's the thing is, you know, and I'm going to tell you this is all psychological this has nothing to do with whatever you may think it is

this is all psychological game the planning what you're going to pick out the people in the room who could possibly get blamed besides myself you know because I'm a clean cut guy

you put me up against an Irish guy that I was working with that's drinking all the time and comes in Monday morning half drunk it's out obvious. He took it. You know what I was going to say? Yeah, you weren't selling them. So it's not like you, it's not like you looked like you needed them. You needed the money. So and you're and every, are you replacing them with duplicates every time? Yes. Well, uh, I'm going to say there's nine times that I can remember that I didn't replace them because I knew that it was it wasn't going to be met. You know, it was in a storage area somewhere.

where when people put things in storage, especially on Park Avenue, Madison Avenue, storage is for your skateboard. It's not for a Monet. Right. It's not for a Costco. It's not for none of that.

You know, you shouldn't be putting your digger face inside the storage box in the basement. There's roaches down there. You're crazy? Um, okay, so this has been going on for a long time. Eventually, they catch up with you. how many paintings did you have on me

well that they call you I thought you they don't find the three that were in the car you know they only found the three that were in the car oh I thought they they didn't do a search like a go and search your house oh yeah they did they weren't going to find anything there all right why would I put them in my house come on well I would think you would you would said like you wanted to enjoy them you said you liked them no not with this girl let me tell you something um my ex-wife my ex-wife she she she's a ride to die my ex-wife she i was married for a very

long time 21 years got blessed you know but then i separated and then got hooked up with the mother of my kids now this is the type of girl that she would we got pulled over one time in jersey and I believe I took the charge for for DUI because I was driving. She wanted me to take a charge for a marijuana cigarette in the front of the car. And I'm thinking to myself, damn, she would wrap me out and sell my knee down the fucking river in a second, this one right here. You know, there was no way I would bring anything over there. Are you kidding me? Oh my God, she gets pissed off.

should be called me a CIA arts division. All right. So they grab your stuff, they go to your house, they don't find anything. How do you end up doing the documentary? Did you write a book? Did you, were you approached? How did you end up with the documentary? This is a deal, Matthew.

And I think you're going to find this the most intriguing. You want to know why? Because when I was in Rikers, I went from Rikers, in Nassau County Correctional, you know, and I saw those, to me, everyone's the same person, whether you're a CEO or you're an inmate in a jail, it's the same. You know, we're all humans, you know, there's no level for humans. But a couple of the... Book Club on Monday.

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Get up to $2,700 when you open select small business banking products. Yep, that's $2,700 to turn up your business. Visit TD.com slash small business match to learn more. Conditions apply. Guys in jail were telling me, hey, you know what? Your story is insane. I couldn't wait to see something like that on TV. It captivated dude from Taiwan to whatever, you know, around the

globe. During the NBA Final Four, they, in my jailhouse and Rancers and all throughout my whole tier, OBCC, old boy, everybody was watching the show, the Brooklyn V.A. So I said to myself, when I got out and I gave up everything,

I gave it up for my two daughters. I have two daughters, one of six and one is eight. And I gave up the life of crime for them. I couldn't give it up for any other reason. I enjoyed it too much. So, you know, but I made an investment in myself.

I made a financial investment. And I reached out to someone that I believe in, Adrian Mazone of Transmedia. And I said, I wanted to do a documentary about my life, and I want to confess. You know, I want to confess about everything.

And I did. You even see it because I'm going to see you at the premiere. Yeah. So, okay. how long were you locked up 18 months 18 months yeah my my lawyer was Bruce Cutler John Gotti's lawyer okay my case is phenomenal man you write novels about it you're I'm saying yeah how come you didn't how come you didn't write a book you had 18 months I was battling my case I that wasn't me you see for me writing a book would have meant

that would have been a confession. You can't write a book. You just asked me, the first question you asked me had to say no to me, what's the name of the answer? I mean, you know, there's a way to write around that.

No, I mean, but you can't answer that. That's one of those questions. Listen, Matthew, when they arrested me in King's Point, this is, look at the scene. They arrest me in King's Point. And you could see it on the reality show, the Brooklyn D.A.

It's phenomenal. But in the Pocasel, you heard the real story. They arrested me, and I was high. So I didn't know why. Why? You know, there's three old master paintings in the back of my bend, but why am I getting cold over? You know what I'm right?

I thought maybe they were mixed up. But they get me down to the station house in Kings Point, and there's this huge, giant like tons of anarchy tables you know all those giant long tables with all these detectives around it all of them

you know chilling back there with their badges like 35 of them 25 of them from all over counties everywhere you know

FBI I think was there too and they thought I was coming in crying but I was like they sat there ready for me to bleed out and I was like where's my lawyer

that was the end that That, you know what I'm saying? It's still moved on, you know, and it was just more of a game, dude. It was just a game. You know, I was, I'd go to the DA's office, starved in, he'd have a table full of Chinese food for me. There's something out of some, some make-believe movie. Like, why?

Why for me? And then I realized that it was because of the reality show. So they were trying to get that confession. They knew I hadn't eaten in a week. All right. Right. So how long did, how long, after you got out, how long did it take to put together the documentary? The documentary was just last year. I had some health issues, a lot of health issues, and I have two little girls.

And this is not about other people, but this is about them. This is about, I want them to know who their father is. I mean, the real person, what made me who I am and why I am the way I am. You know, I'm not, I'm not embarrassed of who I am. I just want people to know, you know, this is me. I mean, I trust me, I understand that. Like, you know, most, it's funny because most of the guys that I know that were locked up, that were like con men or fraudsters or scammers, like, they're in prison trying to figure out,

like, how to get out, change their, name how to keep anybody from knowing what they did how to start their life over and i was like the only person who was like i'm telling everybody what i fucking did fuck them like you know i would say listen there's there's two kinds of people in the world there are those people that know the things that i've done and the person i am today and are 100% accepted of it and there are those people that can go fuck themselves and that's it there's only two so to me like you know i'm not going to be hiding and lying and dodging the rest of my life. Like, I'm not doing that. Like, this is what I did. And you're either okay with it or you're not. You don't have to be in my life.

If you're not, well, kick rocks. There's lots of people out here. So, yeah, so I mean, I know exactly what you're saying. Like, I'm not going to, you know, I mean, obviously I would prefer not to go to prison. I could have missed the prison part. I'm okay. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I see something, I see something, I read people. I read people, whether you're, wherever you're from, I could read straight through you. But there's something about respect that I see in you. Like, do you want to let somebody disrespect you? Am I right?

That what? You want to let somebody disrespect you in jail? That I wouldn't? Wouldn't. Would you get into a fight if somebody. Like, if I had. had to get into a fight, to be honest with you, I would get into a fight if it came down to it. But let's face it, you know, if I'm not, if this guy's six foot fucking two and he's

going to beat the fucking hell out of me or something, that's probably, probably not, I'm probably not signing up for that. But luckily, you know, luckily, I did that, that didn't, you know, I didn't have to run into that issue. Yeah, listen, once I had been locked up a few years, Like, I got into a routine and I was okay and people knew who I was and, you know, I didn't, I never had any problems or anything. I think maybe two times I had an issue with a couple with a couple of guys. And it was just because I got a slick mouth, you know, I mouth off to somebody and, and I realized right away, I realized right away that, you know, either I'm going to say nothing and hold everything in until I'm, you know, until I leave here or I'm going to mouth off every once in while and I'm going to get punched. Somebody's going to smack me. These are big guys.

These are not nice guys. And I'm not a big guy. I'm like five foot six. So, you know. Yeah, I'm tiny. I'm okay with it. Side doesn't matter. Let me tell you something.

I was telling a friend of mine the other day that when I was inside, there was this dude. He was this huge monster of a man. And he had a mental. health issues but uh he was he got on me like this point like he was going to bother me and i knew if he took me he was going to beat the fuck out of me all right he would have dragged me so i had no commentary money so i couldn't pay anybody right and i didn't know anybody in there so that wasn't going to happen so you know what i did is i figured out a plan the there was a gang running our house right

and he's not in the game so there's a particular gang running in our house so I played his mine you know and them you know and I said to them you know my sister

she's a hustler what about if I get my sister into the visiting room to pass you a half ounce of weed and you give me half and you take half this was all going, this was all like, check

you out, listen, it was all going like that. So that happened in the morning. This nitwit got on me by lunchtime, just picking on me and I knew that, dude, I couldn't take it to the head with this guy because this guy would have fucked me up. He was a nut.

So, I said to the guy that I was talking to, the head of the, you know, I think his name was gun, something or other. I said, yo, dude, I'm out of his house, bro. This guy's fucking with me, man. How the fuck I'm going to do this shit. I'm going to another house, bro. You know what he did? He got

together the three guys and he put a little bird in this guy's ear. Stop fucking with Picasso. Right. This guy slipped out. Slips out and he attacked the CO, the correctional officer. They had to bring the turtles

in to beat the fuck at him and get him out. See, so that's the point is, you know, it's not about size because this guy would have taken me. He would have wrap my head around the fucking toilet you know it's about you know you gotta use the you got to use what you got you got brains you fucking get the bigger guy to beat the fuck out of that guy you know I'm saying that's always a well there's a way there's a lot of guys in there with mental health problems oh you tell us I mean I didn't know there were so many you know I remember one time this guy you came up to me and said listen he said can I talk to you for a second I was like

yeah what's up and he goes listen man he said i'm taking anger management and and so and my first thought was man and no conversation has ever been a good conversation that started with i'm taking anger management like i thought this conversation is about to go bad and it and i was like okay and i thought what what's happening what's and he goes you've been slamming your door every time you leave the cell And, you know, those doors are heavy. So, you know, you go to close them. Like, I'm just kind of pushing it. Not, I walk out and I kind of close and I know it'll close.

But, of course, I'm 15 feet away by the time it goes, bam. And he lives in the cell next to me. Now, I didn't know this because I barely paid attention to anything that was going on. I didn't know really anybody in the unit. I went to my cell. I read all the first few years. I was in the medium security. And I looked at him and he goes, man, you slay in the door.

time you leave the cell. And I looked at him and I go, are you in this unit? And he goes, man, I'm your, I'm your next door neighbor. I said, I'm in the cell next to you. And I went, did you just get here? He's, I've been here six months. He's, you've been, I've been here as long as you. And I went, I'm sorry, bro. I don't even pay attention. I, uh, okay, so go ahead. He's like, you know, I'm trying to work on my anger. And, and, and, and I'm supposed to talk to you before I do something, and I thought, well, thank God for anger management. You know, I was like, I said, well, listen, I'm going to make a valid effort to try and correct that. And I will close the door. You know, he's like, I feel like you're doing it on purpose.

I'm like, bro, I don't even know who you are, man. Like, I hear you, but I don't even know, I didn't even know you were my, my neighbor, but I'm going to make an effort. Listen, I must, I kept slamming that door. Like, I would walk away just by accident. And finally, my Selly came to me, said, this dude's going to kill you. Do you understand? And I was like, and I was like, fuck, I keep fucking. I can't believe. You know, it's a hard, it's hard, it's a hard habit to break. So, yeah. But I did stop, I did stop slamming the door, you know, which was stupid. And luckily I didn't have to get, I'm sure if I got my ass beat, I'd have probably figured it out real quick. I'd probably never slap that door again. But, yeah, there's some real mental cases in that. And then I taught, listen, the GED, I taught the SLD, GED. So I got the guys that can't even pass the GED. There's like the slow learning disabled guys that are like, you know, you're trying to teach them like basic math and like they can't count change.

And it's like, oh, wow, like this is bad. Like I'm like, look, you need to know how to count money. And they're like, you know, my bitch count that money. I'm like, yeah, I know I get it. You're going to go back. But when you go back out, then I'm going to sell drugs again. I'm like, yeah, but what if she doesn't count it? right. Like, what if she counts it wrong?

And he's like, I put that pipe he goes, I put that pipe on if she count that shit right. And I was like, that's probably true. But, you know, like, listen, that I was not, that was not an environment I was really prepared for.

So, yeah. When I went in, when I was in, and we were in the yard at Rikers, and I was walking the track with this dude. And I I'm like, he's like, what are you in for? I said, I'm in here for artsy, you know, for stealing art.

And I said, what are you in here for? I cut up the corrections off, and I murdered my wife. And he went on and on. I was like, oh, shit, you get to fuck out of you. You seem like such a nice guy. Listen, like, the guy I hung out with the most in prison is in prison for murdering to FBI. I cooperate, you know, whatever, C-I's.

Nicest guy. Niceest guy. Until you take the honey bun from the commissary. No. Like, you know, if you borrow something, you want to pay him back. Or you, you know, if it's, he says, get you, you know, can you get me a six-pack? Of course I can get you a six-pack. I'm embarrassed that you had to ask.

I don't know why I don't already have the six-pack. Pierre Rossini in the 1990s was a 20-something-year-old Los Angeles-based drug trafficker of ecstasy and ice. He and his associates drove luxury European supercars, lived in Beverly Hills penthouses, and dated Playboy models while dodging federal indictments. Then two FBI officers with the organized crime drug enforcement task force entered the picture. Dirty agents willing to fix cases and identify informants. Suddenly, two of Racini's associates, confidential informants working with federal law enforcement, or murdered. Everyone pointed to Racini. As his co-defendants prepared for trial, U.S. Attorney Robert Mueller sat down to debrief Rossini at Leavenworth Penitentiary, and another story emerged.

A tale of FBI corruption and complicity in murder. You see, Pierre Racine knew something that no one else knew. The truth. And Robert Mueller and the federal government have been covering it up to this very day. Devil Exposed. A twisted tale of drug trafficking, corruption, and murder in the city of angels. Available on Amazon and Audible. So it's funny, there's a lot of good guys in there.

Actually, there's a lot of good guys that, but seriously, there are a lot of good guys. But there's a lot of people that you're just like, wow. Like, it bothers me that you're going to get out of here at some point. Dude, there was this guy that I remember I was at, you know, I was bored when I was in there. You know, once I got the good lawyer and things started going, right, there was this dude who said to me that he had been arrested 37 times or 67, I don't know what it was. And I was like, dude, after the first few times you didn't get the hint that you're not good at it, you know, and I'm like, you're stupid, damn. I figured I should probably be giving advice in jail. No.

I stopped that. What do you do now? You don't want to know. Do you want to know? Do you still paint? What? I do high-end estates for the 11%. Listen, I mean, like this documentary might not be good.

for your career. Well, that's the thing. Is a documentary supposed to take a retirement road? You know what I'm saying? I want to confess. I want to give you the names you want, right? You want the names of the people that are missing, right?

Right. That's what you want to give you. So this documentary has to leave me employment free. You know, I filled it all out. Like literally, if you watch this documentary and you say to me, I'm lying. to you, an FBI informant that's sitting next to you, you could ask

him, they'll tell you that I'm telling the truth. Everything is a documentary is 100% true. How long is the documentary? Approximately an hour. Okay. Where are you living now? Undisclosed location. Geez.

If I give you that, man, that people are going to start looking for me, man. Okay, there's not a lot you can answer. Hey, so where is the documentary going to be? Is it, is it, where is it being shown? We are doing a private screening for the media and the critics. Right. Like yourself.

Right. In Fort Lord of April 30th. And hopefully once we find a platform that we're going to stream it on, And then we'll be able to let you know about that. And the name of the movie, the documentary is called the Picasso of D. And I tell you, when you watch the movie, it's, you can't, this is not acting. I'm not an actor. Right.

You know, this is me spilling myself out, you know. And sometimes I think it might be for the adrenaline, but I'm retired now. So I don't have many forms of adrenaline anymore. You know, I got my two daughters. And when they come over, we go roller skating or it's a bond de noble. So for a retired I see, you might as well just throw me back on Rikis, you know, sometimes. It's like, you know, when I got in, you know, a lot of people make a big mistake, right? They go into jail and they get sad and they cry and they, I don't know what they do.

When I went in, I'm confrontational. You know what I'm saying? If I had a bit, try to stop me, I dare you to try to stop me from getting that phone. at the end of the night when you tell me that that phone belongs to somebody or it belongs to this bird, the red, the blood, the crypts, or whatever,

I dare you to try to stop me and take that phone. I'll crack you over there with that phone. I'll bust you ass because I want to feel better. I don't want to be agitated like this guy bitched me out. You know what I'm saying? I'm always about that confrontation. This is all about adrenaline. The feeling of painting

is the same thing as you confronting this six foot, two dudes with fucking muscles. He told the same shit. Are you doing any more interview? I have another one on Thursday, five. But check this out, right? I want to give you this.

It was this woman. She lived across the street from MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art in Manhattan. We were doing a six-month job. We were completely done with the job. We had taken the paintings off. We had put them away. Brought them back.

And we're already done. There was not even a paintbrush inside the apartment. And she sees me carrying the painting to give it to her because she's going to hang it. And she looks at me and she says, please be careful. You have no idea what that thing caught. But she didn't realize that that thing was a fake. I already had replaced it. So, I mean, not only what it caused, because you see, there's two costs.

There's the cost that you inflated for the insurance company, and there's the actual cost. Now, either way, I wasn't going to sell it, so it didn't matter. But I could tell you the actual cost. And, you know, some people, you know, you got to dumb it down sometimes, you know, to make them feel comfortable about themselves and rich people. They're a lot like that. So, okay, I'm, I'm, I'm, keep going back to, were you an art? Like, how are you replace, how are you duplicating these paintings?

My best, you remember Kinkos? Yeah, yeah. My best thing and my easiest thing was always to duplicate it on a color copier, high digital, but then add layers to it, whether it be layers of latex paint or the bristles on to it. That was always the easiest. It was like painting by numbers. You know, it wasn't that complicated. And I already knew how to fall finish.

I knew how to do gold leasing and Marmarino and all these other fine finishes. And at that point, you combined the two and it wasn't that complicated. And for these people, these aren't poor people like your everyday 99% of the country. We're talking about the 1%. That 1% on the top of the food. chain that they're never going to miss that painting. They didn't buy it for an investment and

it's in the basement and when they do find it, they'll put it back on the wall then I'm going to know it's not there, you know, and there's no if you go to a museum, there's people like myself, I go to a museum and I scrutinize pictures. I go to a museum

close by and I'll look at the fibers and I look at the layers of paint and the gold leaf and I'll scrutinize every little thing. I could tell you if it's bake or not. There's professionals that go into every museum. The pieces I took, nobody's going

to see them to stuff for the owner and his friends. Right. And he's going to walk by it. He's walking by it. It's 15 feet away. He glances over. He keeps walking. He's not scrutinizing the painting. Not at all. He's not even looking at the fibers or anything. Dude, down

to the micrometer on the fibers of the brushes. They used to keep a million different paintbrushes and had a micrometer and I used to measure the original fiber in the painting because there's always brush hairs inside the latex of the oil thing. I used to put them right back where they came from, but it would be on a Kinko's copy, you know, and literally, if you looked at it, you know. What is, this is, I was going to say, what is Kinko's now? It's now what, at UPS

or FedEx FedEx stores I think it's FedEx Yeah I think it is FedEx store Yeah I think it is You can't do that nowadays though Because now you've got cameras in there And they won't let you put no

Masterpiece on no print that I got free commissaries I was in the newspaper every day So out of respect Inmates to bring me commissary I had no commissary I had no commissary I didn't have shit

I used to give it away because I was too stressed out you know I'm always burning the candle you know so did you get out on bond at any point no my bond

my bail was set at $1.5 million dollars yeah there was no getting out if anyone let me out there was going to happen and especially my lawyer was in the newspaper every day

every single day who's by the DA committed a classy felony with some shit and they came out in the newspaper, and then every day that my lawyer was antagonizing them. So they didn't want to let me out. They were going to torture me.

Until they said, you know what? We've had it. Let him out. If he pleads guilty now, they said, if you plead guilty now, you walk out today, I said, yeah,

let's do this. And I pled guilty and I walked out. And that was how long, after how long? 18 months? 18 months. Which was nothing. There was nothing.

I mean, come on. You were in. for 13 years, Jesus. Yeah, and you never, you said you never went to a prison. You did this in the county jail, right? Yeah, I did that in Rikers Island and Nassau County. And I actually, they transferred me from Rikers to Nassau County. And I begged my lawyer to have them transmit back

because Rikers Island is like a tropical paradise compared to Nassau County. You know, at Rikers Island, you have bender drills if you want to wear your sleep, you want to smoke weed, whatever you want to do. You can make it happen. But in Nashville County, forget about it. It was like the third right there. At 6 a.m., I think it was 5 a.m., they planned the metal doors to wake you up to let you know you're in jail.

You know, county jails are the worst. Like, the whole time I was locked up in the county jail or the U.S. Marshall's holdover, because I was in a federal prison, but you're still being held in a county jail. You know, you're in the U.S. marshals holdover. Well, it's a county jail. So, but the whole time you're there, I remember all the guys kept saying, man, I can't wait to get sentenced and go to prison. I can't wait to go to prison. I was like, is prison better than that?

And they were like, oh, prisons way better than this. Yeah. And it's just true. Like, as soon as I went to prison, I was like, oh, wow, this is, like, you could go work out. You can get a job. You can take classes. You can move around. Like, everything's nicer.

you could actually like start like a little life not a great life but at least have a like a life you know people aren't coming and going you can you can hang out with people have regular friends watch movies you get ice cream at the commissary like you could do some stuff yeah couldn't do that no no rather do two years I think I'd rather do two years in the federal prison than one year in the county Dude, when I was in Rikers, when I used to get bored and I wanted to take a field trip, I used to request to go to the DA's office. So I went to waste a whole thing going to the DA's office to say nothing. It was just a good time.

You know, I got to see Brooklyn, you know, in the bus, you know, talks to friends. Dude, if they saw me in the hallway, he's like, yo, Picasso, what's up? I had a sally that said, that asked, said he wanted to talk to the U.S. attorney, said, you know what, I'm going to talk to the U.S. attorney. They brought them to the U.S. attorneys, said, listen, I'm starving. Can you all get me something? You know, well, and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they said, what do you want?

Yeah, you know, wants like, you know, two McDonald's hamburgers and some fries. They were like, yeah, no problem. So they go and they get it and they come and he sits down and he eats the fries and everything and eats the hamburg and sits there for a minute. And he goes, I just don't feel right about this. I need to go back. Can I go back to the prison? They were like, oh, no, no.

Or go back to the jail and say, listen, you're never coming back here again. You understand? If you think you're fucking around, he's like, yeah, I know. I was never coming back to begin with. And I can't stand the food then. I know it's a fucked up thing. And they were like, okay, that you're playing. He said, in the end, he said it cost me like six extra month.

Those two hamburgers cost them like six more months. Because they wouldn't give a deal. They wouldn't do anything. Dude, that is some cold hodge. I mean, you know, he thought people think they're being cute. They don't think it's cute. The biggest thing is that, you know, we write our own ticket, you know. I've always known like literally since I was a little kid, you know, I've always lived

life looking over my shoulder for police or another bad person, you know, you always if you take that ride, you write the ticket. So when I wrote that ticket and I got arrested, I expected what I expected. That wasn't, you know, if it wasn't for the fact that my girl was pregnant, that was the only missing factor, you know, that factor was something, you know, you don't play into when you commit crimes. Like, right now I have two daughters. I couldn't imagine being away from them for half a second, you know, so I couldn't do any of that anymore. You know, I'm retired. I'm done.

I'm cooked. Is there like an official website or a link you want to give me to put in the description? Picasso, born in Brooklyn, on track. Facebook is the main page, but you could also find me under Picasso Vega on Facebook and on LinkedIn. I was to tell you that the film was actually filmed in Brooklyn. We are keeping to, I mean, the original title was going to be Picasso born in Brooklyn

because, you know, The Daily News gave me the name Picasso. You know, I didn't make it up. It wasn't delusional. I made the fun cover of The Daily News. was with the name Picasso over my head. It wasn't a flattering Picasso. And I only tell you this, I only say it once. It was pick.

It said Picasso as a whole word, but pick was white. Aso was black. Got it? Yeah. Picasso. So I kept it because I'm from Brooklyn and I'm like that. You know, who else makes the front cover of the New Yorker magazine? Come on, the Wall Street Journal?

What? Are you crazy? come on i'm a nazi i'm not god i'm not bill gates and i'm in the wall street journal i think they featured me like 10 times like you're like what did i do did i kill somebody i don't know it's a sensational crime they love sensational they love sensational they love unique like you know if it's like hey hey he's a crack dealer okay well there's thousands of them like that's not that's nothing special about that but to be an art thief that's extremely unique you know like who does that that's insane like you didn't meet i guarantee the whole time you were locked up you didn't meet

anybody else with your charge there was another Picasso in there no yeah yeah it wasn't another guy stealing artwork they might have called them Picasso no that was nobody like dude i tell you that you know when i went in there and there's so much media on the news every day in the Riker's Island. I thought I killed somebody by mistake or something. Like, dude, if you look at one of the broadcasts, there's like 30 detectives behind this big platform, behind a microphone, and it's like, we got them.

Like, what? Where's the body? I don't get it. I didn't think it was that big of the deal. Well, you got a document. I don't have a documentary. I mean, so somebody thinks it's a big deal

I hope you think it's a big deal brother because when you come see the movie dude I mean the movie begins at the age of six you know that was when the monster was created that's when I saw the world just a little bit differently right you know you see as a kid you see the world

just a little askew I mean for me I feel blessed like literally I feel blessed for everything. When I was in Rikers, I felt blessed. You know, I felt like even though I was in there, dude, I had the best lawyer. Bruce Cutler's law firm representing me.

I was in the newspaper every day. The guards knew who I were. Everybody knew who I was. Like, all of a sudden, it was like going into cheers. And they'd say norm. But they were like, Picasso. I was like, yo, I'm right here. You said you had not seen the trailer.

Is there a trailer? No, not that I'm aware of it. Okay. I felt like there was supposed to be a trailer, but not that's going to say it'd be nice. If they were the trailer, we could throw it in here. Well, I was about to say that more than likely when we find a platform that they're going to stream it on, then the platform will cut the trailer for that. Yeah. Well, or they'll ask the director or the, the, they'll ask your editor of your director to, hey, can you guys do a 30-second trailer?

All right, well, cool. And it's supposed to be animated. It's supposed to have specific songs. in there from an artist called Steve Slim. I mean, it's supposed to be this, and it's shot in 4K. There's not many documentaries

out there shot in 4K where you're going to get that nice crisp and motion. What do you mean? It's supposed to be. Haven't you seen it? No. You see, this is not like that. This is not like that.

You see, for you to get the full picture of anything, you have to have different eyes on a product, all right? Right. Now, this is how I ensured the product is going to be put out properly. When I came up with the thought about putting this pictures together, I drove down to Florida to me, Adrian Nizone of Transmedia. You see, if I see you eye to eye, right now, even though we're on the podcast, you know, if I saw you eye to eye, I know if you're lying to me, I know if you're full of shit, I'd read you straight through.

I met up with Adrian Mazzone. I met up with Carlos Siped us and Anna Siped us. I brought my daughters up there so we could all meet. We had a face-to-face conversation. I had already verified these people through my own sources. So I knew I was on a positive road. I made it very clear of them. This is not a Road to Redemption video.

That's not what this is. Right. I mean, if you want that, you better go watch Charlie Brown or something, because that's not what this is. This is, you know, I was an art thief, and I'm retired now because my daughter is and I don't want to go to jail things. That's what this is.

I'm saying, I was happy as an art thief. You know, it's something that makes me pleasure. You know, if you go to a museum with me, Matthew, you'll experience art in a different way. Art is not just that painting image from the wall. That's not what art is. Art is meant to be taken in in so many different things.

you know what I'm saying it's just not just oh look it let's go you know that's not what the art is art has light to it you know you feel me yeah so you haven't seen the film no I mean are you have you seen pieces I made the film so I know exactly what's in the film well you were you know you were in front of the camera Yeah. But you don't know what they... Tons of stuff doesn't make the cut. No, I know, but there's nothing that bad.

Okay. You know what I'm saying? I'm an art thief. What's worse than that? And there's a lot worse than that. A lot worse than that, but... No, I just mean in the general sense of a movie. What are they going to get wrong?

Oh, he was an art thieves that liked Salvation Army pictures. I wanted a different eyes. And I also wanted a woman's perspective, which is why Anna, Anna Siped us, she's one of the executive producers and directed the film. I didn't want my,

this is not an ego trip to me. This is not, you know, if you think I'm a scumbag, say I'm a scumbag, but this is not an ego trip for me. This is a, you know,

I'm fucked up and I know it. Right. What you want me to do about it? You know what I'm saying? Who are you talking to? Bro. Like I was, listen, I was on the run for three years, for four or five years before that. I was running scams.

I was making fake people, stealing identities, you know. I mean, I've been caught in the bank by police, a handcuff, talked out my way out of, convinced them I hadn't done anything wrong. They had the wrong person. They let me go. chased by the U.S. Marshals. I mean, I, you know, I, trust me, I've done all kinds of stuff. It's, it's insane. So, I mean, I know what you're saying.

Like, that's what I'm like, this is what I did. It's what it is. Like, you get to a point where it's like denying it's, it's just, there's no point in it. So you might as well lean into it. So I know what you're saying. It's like, I'm not going to deny it. So I might as well just tell you everything. I might as well just, this is what happened.

Like, don't hold back. There's no reason to hold back at this point. there's too many articles about me there's too much stuff out there so you can't hide from it so you might as well lean into it so i i thought everything you're saying makes sense to me dude and the thing is you know i don't see this as redemption but the monster that i am the monster that i feel i am when i look in the mirror i see a fucking i see a monster that's what i see i know what i did nobody else knows what i did you know and uh i could continue my life

doing what I'm doing or I could be there for my girls and change their lives. And we, you know, I take them to the museum and I teach them about art and we spend a lot of time together. We do a lot of stuff together. They're my therapy. They're my

everything. I could, like I said, I can't imagine the day without them. They, they, the way the sun rises and the sun sets is my girls. When they sleep, I watch them because they're a thing of beauty that you... I only get them on the weekend. So I have a very limited span of time

that I could, you know, put memories in their head of me. You know, this movie is everything. It's part to finish. So are they got to go to the premiere too? No, they're not going to go to the premiere because I don't know... I don't know if there's an FBI agent going to be sitting next to you, Matthew Cox. let's just say the movie's real the movie ain't no bullshit right you know we're talking about the

FBI has a whole division FBI has a whole division for art theft why wouldn't you send your top guy over there what what I have um what's the statute of limitations on art theft I don't think there's a statute of limitations on art there's got to be but you got to prove it no why why would they be I mean if they find the two paint if I after a certain amount of years

if they find the two paintings that they say I stole even though I didn't if they can't they can't charge you with them oh yeah because of the catch 22 whatever you

I guess they're not going to say they're yours oh no you're taking them back we're just not going to charge you with them? I ain't giving them back.

No. So, yeah, the only thing that doesn't have a statute of limitations is murder and espionage. Ooh. Yeah.

Everything else has one. It may be 20 years, but there's a statute of limitations to pretty much everything. Yeah. But I would always think, I mean, it would be a smart thing

if you know that this movie about our death, then you want to be. you're in law enforcement but become educated I would think let me tell you something Matthew no let me tell you something when they got to my house

in eastern there was a Monet hanging in the toilet and they walked right by it and I was like huh that's peculiar all right hey you know what have you ever seen the movie the good thief no no

That's with Adrian Brody? No. No, no. It's got Nick Nolte is in it. No, I got to watch that. Bro. Like, if you can watch it, like, if you can find it and watch it, you should watch it. It's good.

It's about a con man, and he has a Picasso. Like, he won it from Picasso. But it's not a real Picasso. Like, he's got everybody believing it's a real Picasso. he borrows like a million dollars on the painting he's had it sitting in his house for like 20 years everybody's heard the story every and then so he when he finally needs some money he borrows against the Picasso and it turns out and of course it's it's not it's a fake and it's a whole scam the whole movie it's just this one scam after that's a great movie but wait there's a new movie that just came out too uh about an art thief that gets locked in an apartment just came out but it's an unlimited release on AMC, AMC theaters. I was going to go check it out, but I didn't get a chance. I was too busy watching Super Manor Brothers with the Girls.

Wow. That's a life change. William Defoe. William Defoe is in it. He's an artsy that gets locked in an apartment. William Defoe was great. And to live and die in L.A. when he was a, he's a counterfeiter. That's a good movie.

Are you kidding me? Live and die in L.A. and it's a great movie. He's a counterfeiter. You like that one. He's an artist. Brother, after you watch the show, after you watch the movie,

I want you to have me back on the show and tell me what you think, honestly. Don't, don't pull punches. Just be honest. You know, making me, we're in jail.

I am in shock that you haven't seen this thing. Look, I definitely want to talk, like right after. What do you expect? I don't know. They can't make me look bad,

really. No, it's not that. It's that. think you're all people you're always shocked at what they cut like you know typically you see these things you're like i can't believe they didn't say this or they said that or they they took this and that it's out of context i didn't mean it that way and you know but but i think you you sound like you're a lot like me where it's like i feel like i'm okay with what like if as long as it's true i'm okay with it if it makes me look bad i'm okay with it as long as it's what i did like you know

don't say that I, you know, I did this when I didn't, when what I actually did was bad enough. You know, say what I did. I'll okay. I'll own up to what I did. But I'm not going to start. I'm not going to, don't make it look like I did this over here because I didn't. So I think you're the same way. I just, you know, it's, I also think that we don't always see ourselves the way we truly are.

Oh, dude. You hit the nail in the head, bro. Yeah. So sometimes you'll see stuff and you're like, wow, is that really how people see me? Like, like, but you have to be okay with that. You know, because like I would say, listen, like, you know, if, if 20 people say you're an asshole, you're probably an asshole. You may not see it, but they're not all wrong. There's 20 people will say that you're an asshole. So, but I'm okay with that. And you seem like you're the same way. So, yeah. Dude, let me tell you, this is a true story. My son, I have a son, his name is Bobby, and he's 30 years old, and he's grown. But when he was young, I was a young father, and I didn't have a father, so I didn't know what it was like to be a father. You know, I didn't have vices. I didn't drink.

I didn't smoke. I didn't do weed, none of that stuff. So I was full-blown anxiety, rage, all boiling together. I used to call her name. He was overweight. I used to, you know, agitate the situation. And my son doesn't talk to me. You know, I reached out to my son and my son, you know, there's no communication.

And it's because I was an asshole. You took the words out of my mouth, you know, and I know I'm an asshole. When I look in the mirror, I know what I did to him. I can't forget about it because I see it. I feel it. You know, you know, you accept it. And then you know what? You just see it every day.

you don't move on from it because I don't know how people say, oh, you know, let's stop beating yourself up on about it because you can never stop beating yourself. You did it, you know what I'm saying? You hurt somebody's feelings, and now he doesn't want to talk to me. I still love him. He knows I love him, you know.

But I was an asshole, so that's the price I'm paying. My son doesn't talk to me either. You know, he's like 23 years old. He doesn't talk to me. He doesn't talk to me because obviously I, when he was three, I went on. the run. I get picked up three, four years later. All he knows about me is my dad's a bad person. So by the time I'm and, you know, he could have come to see me, you know, it's too, by that point,

he's he's seven, eight years old, he's formed an opinion. I'm a bad person. He didn't want anything to do with me. My ex-wife didn't help me out any. And by the time she realizes, okay, he's getting out soon. the kid's like 18, 19 years old. And she's saying, hey, you should go see your father in prison. You should build a relationship. And he's like, fuck that, dude. I'm done with that guy. I'm not fucking with him.

He's a piece of shit. You know, and the problem is he's got a powerful argument. It's not like I can say, no, no, you're wrong. No, no, you hit it on the head. You know, but so, you know, and I've done the same thing. I've reached out to him. I text them, you know, we go back and forth a little bit. he says horrible mean angry things to me you know so i'm the same thing and i i feel like the same

way like it's like i've done everything i should i can think to do but it's always on my mind if that makes sense yeah it never goes away yeah my failure you know you i mean they're men now you know i'm saying your son's 23 mine's 30 years old he's got house cars you know and I failed him and I was supposed to be that person that didn't fail him and the worst part is guys like you and I

we keep it in our minds so we don't do it again or so we always it's a punishment it's a self-porture right there's other people that forgive and forget and let's just move on and blame it on the kid

and blame it on everyone don't take the, don't look in the mirror and don't blame it on yourself because that's the true person cause all the damage Oh, I'm always in shock at guys that I know that have just been brutal, horrible to their children. Their children show up to prison. They're their every visit.

They love them. They, and it's like, wow, like, you're, you were brutal to your kid. You were horrible to him. You were horrible to his mother to the, you know, and they show up. They, they, they. I'm shocked about that too. Yeah. Because I always feel like, you know, like when I was there, I was good.

just disappeared. This is a horrible conversation. Let's end this. No, it's actually not a horrible conversation because it's a learning point, you know. And that's the whole point, though. That's the whole point of the movie. You know, it's like I got fucked up at six years old, you know? Are you mad at me because at six years old, I saw some shit that I shouldn't have seen and I became fucked up. I mean, I don't, I see life as normal for me, you know, just so you know, this movie has already cost me one job because I was talking to a co-worker you see I'm real

I told the co-worker look I'm making a movie and this bastard went to the to the boss and ratted me out I expect when this if this hits big that's you know I expect to get fired so you know we write our own check

this check is written but if this hits big I get fired that means I made it big, right? So then who gives the shit? Yeah. It's the problem you should be able to handle at that point. Yeah, exactly. I mean, damn, you know, I've had worse, you know.

I just want to be able to, you know what, I would like to be able to do something that I'd like to do and be able to spend as much time with my girls until, you know, you bury me in the backyard or something. Oh, and Noah Charney is in the movie. I know he's not on this poster because this poster is one of the first ones. But Noah Charney is an author, and he writes a lot of books on art and theft of art. So he's in the movie.

He makes a special appearance I'm so excited about. So please check him out. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like. this. Also, I'm going to leave all of Picasso's social media links are going to be in the description. I'm going to try and figure out if we can get some kind of a link to the official movie, either the trailer or to the website for or some type of a link. And I appreciate you

guys watching. I also, when I was locked up, I wrote a whole bunch of true crime books. So check out the trailers. And all right, see you.