Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Real Rick Ross on Joe Rogan, Rapper Lawsuit, & Making Millions | Freeway Ricky

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

From kingpin to prison—Rick Ross built a crack empire in LA, got betrayed by the CIA’s own informant, and faced life behind bars. In this interview with Matt Cox, he opens up about surviving the drug war, suing Snowfall, and turning it all around post-prison. Rick's links https://www.instagram.com/freewayricky?igsh=MXU4enFpaXZwM2s0ag==https://www.youtube.com/@FreewayRickyRoss1https://freewayrickyross.com/Do you want to double your conversations, increase connection rates, and eliminate wasted time? Check out Enzo Dialer here: https://www.enzodialer.com/offer-claim-page854408852353584984?am_id=ytDo you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7Send me an email here: [e-mail] you extra clips and behind the scenes content?Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime Follow me on all socials!Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrimeDo you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopartListen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox Check out my true crime books! Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCFBent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TMIt's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5GDevil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3KBailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WXIf you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69Cashapp: $coxcon69

Selling is more addictive than even using. I won a million, then 15 million. Snowfall. It's based on your story. Absolutely. I went on Joe Rogans, we came up with this T-shirt right here. There was a lawsuit with Rick Ross, the rapper. Yeah.

My mom moved to California when I was about maybe three, four years old. Right. And was your dad there? No, my mom and my dad separated when I was four months. Okay. So I didn't have a relationship with my father at all. Okay. Is that still kind of the case?

My father passed while I was in jail. We spent a couple days together, you know. And I got to hear his side of the story. Right. He tried to explain itself. And, um, yeah, there's always two sides. I was good with it, you know. I mean, it is what it is.

You know, life is, uh, life is what it is, you know, take the cars that you dealt and and make the best of them. Yeah, like, yeah, there's always two sides. So you grew up in L.A. And I watched, by the way, you know, I watched the doc that's on your channel because you have your own channel. Yeah, yeah, I do. So I watch that. Cracking the system.

Yeah. Yeah. How you like it? I mean, I thought it was good. Were you involved in the dock other than just being interviewed? I did about 65% of the production on that. Really? Yeah.

It was good. Those were my ideas. It was funny, you know, that the way. they, huh, wow, you know, you go do your time and you still do time when you get out. Nobody wanted me to be a producer on the piece. You know, they thought that it would corrupt the piece, you know. They were saying things like, oh, well, people are going to say that you did your own doc and you put it in your own words.

I said, well, that's what happened, you know, just keep it real, you know, people like real. But nobody, they didn't want me to get any writer's credit. any producers credit you know just wanted me to to be the talking head but in actuality um i'm the one that got the people to come on this on the set i'm the one picked the people that um that talked on there and and and so forth uh i really did a lot that's most of what a producer does right there yeah i did i did a lot on their piece i really produced that piece and it was sad that you know nobody wanted me to get a credit for for the work that i put in but you know it is what it is. Well, I mean, it was good. It was like, it was like an hour and 45 minutes or maybe two hours.

Like three hours. Is it three hours? It's two, two separate, two separate days. Oh, okay. Three hours? I thought it was around two hours. Okay, I'll have to. I mean, you couldn't get enough of it. Yeah, you know, I put it on, you know, every once in a while I would pick it up and look at the video, like something was happening and I'd look at it. But, you know, usually you turn something on and you walk away. Well, we got nominated for Emmy Award and, you know, had the team been solid, I think we would have had a better chance that maybe even winning an award because the promotion that we should have given it, we didn't do it, you know, I didn't really get out and hit the streets like I really wanted to because I was being pulled between. two forces you know um one force was right and one was wrong one was being greedy you know and absurd and uh we wind up going to court and a big battle over it you know which channel should get at first and um it was it was really sad you know because i really wanted the piece to be more of an educational piece you know and i wasn't from the beginning i said you know i wasn't really

tripping on money you know a lot of people get me twisted because you know i like to make money but I'm not a person that's like I'll do anything for money you know I'll cut my friend out for money you know I'm not like that I just like to make it you know I enjoy making it well I mean you have to you have to survive yeah

I mean I don't have a problem in surviving you know I do pretty good at surviving but I want to thrive right I just don't want to be a survivor you know well um i'm greedy so you go to um we're good right are we good with this i'm not i'm not hearing that okay cool sorry i like we've got a studio we're trying to get

into no doubt but i've started this we started this kind of here no doubt so i've been in worse oh yeah matter of fact this might be better than what joe rogan started at oh yeah Well, that's something. I will leave this little segment in. You know, I was thinking I'll cut that out. But since to that, I'll just leave it. Yeah. Listen, the final product, when you look at it on YouTube,

you would think it was an amazing production. You wouldn't think we were sitting in my living room. Yeah. People were like, they get here. First time I did, Joe, he was in like a little garage, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, like I said, you guys probably have a better setup than he had when I first did his first interview with him.

Well, let's hope it works out the same. so you were so you you're in l.A you're raised in l.A. Where in L.A.? Were you raised? South Central. Okay. So, and that was, well, I mean, I had heard before you had said it wasn't as rough when you were being raised like the, the Crips and the blood. It wasn't as much violence. No, it wasn't gangs. I mean, you know, back then, when we first moved, you know, it was right, right before the Watch Riot. So, you know, I got to see the Watcher. riots. I got to see the National Guards rolling down the streets with an army trucks and jeeps and so forth, which I thought was cool, you know, being

a kid, you know, you like Army men out, Army men, look, look. And later on, I started to understand what was going on, you know, was the riots. So I lived through that. I guess it was a few years after that is when the gang started to show their heads.

But you didn't get in? No, I never gang bang. My mom was too, strict you know um i wanted to you know right when i was about 10 11 years old i wanted to be a crip you know uh but they put a tennis racket in my hand i started playing tennis you know and that took me away from the neighborhood and he erased all of my thoughts about being a crypt i didn't know what crippin meant anyway you know i didn't know it was just you know it's a bunch of guys hanging out together you know and and i thought it was cool you know right let me go hang out with those guys older guys yeah

But like I said, I started playing tennis, fell in love with it, thought tennis would be my way out of the ghetto. And that was my passion all during high school. Well, matter of fact, junior high school and high school. What happened? I couldn't read the right. I never learned how to read the right. So when it was time to go to college, you know, I couldn't go to college. so I found myself back in my neighborhood where I grew up

hanging out with guys I went to elementary school and junior high school with high school I went to a different school right you know I caught the bus to school every day and it was about 30, 40 minute bus ride but was a different type of environment you know these people were more well to do but now here I am back in my neighborhood you know where I stayed at every night I lived in South Central.

I slept in South Central, but I didn't really stay in South Central when I played tennis because I would get up at 7 in the morning, get on the bus, and I'm gone. I wouldn't come back into dark. I really didn't know what was going on in the community anymore. But now I'm back in the community, and I'm hanging out with guys that I went to elementary school with and junior high school with and they're gang banging, they're selling drugs, they're using drugs, they low riding and um making money yeah and i was fascinated by that lifestyle i was i was taken aback by it and um i fell into it yeah i would i was going to say i you know i i i when i

was locked up and i taught g ed uh at the federal prison up the street actually it's called coleman i heard of coleman i mean when they built it oh yeah yeah when i was there was like the garden spot i think b ove it was nice everybody's like this is they'd come from other prisons be like this is a nice prison yeah um but you know I would talk to these guys and and it's like you know you'd say why you know why were you know why did you get into that bro like you know you're a sharp guy you could have done something else and they're like everybody I knew was selling drugs everybody I knew that was successful and had money was selling drugs well selling drugs back then was was the thing to do you know I mean entertainers uh in the

documentary we got entertainer where they requested that writer, you know, you got to have me an ounce of drugs and my, and my writer, you know, and, um, I mean, Super Flash, uh, Super Flash, right? Was it Superfly? Superfly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Superfly, man. My cousin took me to see that movie when I was about 14 years old and, um, when I walked out that theater, you know, I don't know if Arthur Ash was still my hero, you know, I mean, he still was a hero, but he wasn't, I don't know if he was my number one hero anymore, you know, because I had experienced things with the cops that I knew wasn't right. You know, I've been maced on the curb before.

I've been handcuffed, and when I saw Superfly beat up the cops. I was like, yeah, man, you know, like, wow. And when I saw what he was doing, and I felt that that's where he got his power from. So, you know, I understand now, you know, I went to present illiterate, but I didn't come out of illiterate. I read over 300 books while I was gone, and I did a lot of mind stuff, and I understood that you can plant something in your mind, in your subconscious mind, and when it gets the opportunity to act on it, it will.

And I feel like that's what happened to me. You know, that's how I got in the game. That's how I got started. And, you know, I fell in love with it. Right. I thought it was a gift from God, you know. You started, but you started small, you started with, $125. I had $125, my partner had $125.

How long did it take to run that up? It took a while. It didn't come up fast. You know, we came up slow. I remember, you know, didn't even make $20 in a week, you know. But I believe what my big homie had told me, you know, about it. And I stuck with it, you know. And, you know, I understood from, you know, tennis gave me a lot of lessons, you know,

like tennis is like a game of life, for real, you know. And I took all my lessons from tennis, you know, including my quitting, you know, because now I know that I never should have quit playing tennis. You know, I should have pushed myself a little harder. But, you know, you being a 17-year-old kid, you know, you don't have a coach. you're really coaching yourself and you're trying to measure yourself off with other people around you is really tough you know but i understand now that if i had me coaching me you know i could have made it it's hard to tell a 17 or 18 year old kid what to do at all anyway yeah

with the best coach it's still a it's still a battle well if i would have had a coach you know because i'm the type of person that if if i'm buying to something i'll do a it takes you're all in yeah i'm all in i'm all in i'm all in i won't uh you know because a couple of pros you know when they used to come off the circuit they would come and get me in and i would do everything they did you know i would do all the exercises and and i would stay on the court as long as they wanted to stay on the court uh and sometimes i'd be want to stay on the court and they be ready to get off the court so i i know that that that i'm the type of person that will go the extra mile you know i mean that's why i did so well in the game you know because um

when other people were going out with their girlfriend to the movies, you know, I would stay on the block and work. How long does that, did that take to, you know, really become something where you're, you eventually get like a supplier and you're off that year? That took years, though. The supplier thing took years, you know. Like I said, you start with $125 and, you know,

two months, maybe you got $600, you know. And, you know, then you take the $600 and you turn that into $1,000 and then the $1,000 to $2,000. But at the same time, the way I see how the game works is that if you working with $1,000, your profit margin will probably start being $200 profit every time you spend that thousand. And if you study compound that, which is what I was doing, I didn't know it was called compound at that time. Right. But I was compounding all my money. Me and my partner, you know, we probably, we would go to this little place called Taco Pete's and get burritos, and the burritos costs a dollar. You know what I'm saying?

So we probably get two burritos apiece, you know, but now we're making $200 profit every day, but we only spend it four bucks. Right. You know, maybe, you know, maybe. So you're talking about maybe six bucks, you know what I'm saying? But we made $200. So that 200 went back into the game. Now you're talking about at the end of that week, instead of $1,000, now we spend in maybe $2,400.

So now in the $2,400, that $200 turns to $400 a day or maybe $300 a day. And you just keep compounding, compounding. And then once you get $20,000, $30,000, now you can negotiate a better price. So you don't have to sell as much because you got a better price on the product. and it just kept going from there. And I remember two of my partners who were already doing really well, you know, selling other drugs.

And I went to bring them in because I knew they had money. And I went and got them and brought them in and showed them how doing what I was doing, they would make more money faster and bigger lumps. So they were getting their money like $10 at a time. I was getting mine 100 at a time.

So I showed them that and they came in and started to do really well. You know, we all started to do really well. They took their money and went bought brand new cars. Right, right. And that literally turned them into my workers. Okay. I mean, for them doing that, they probably, I don't know, they probably made me millions of dollars.

They bought my girlfriend houses and cars. or because they're living that a better life or because they're now well they became my worker okay i should have been their worker because they had the money before i did but by them not doing that say for instance each one them probably was spending like 300,000 a week right so for the 300 000 my cut probably would be 30 40 000 you know what i could keep for myself you know right i would take their money and i probably could pool me 30 000 Now, maybe 40 sometimes, you know, I'm just, these are just rough numbers, but I'm saying somewhere in that, in that area, you know, I could go in their bag and take 30,000 out for

myself and would be legit. So that money bought me a lot of stuff, is what I'm saying. How long did it take for that to grow? And don't you at some point, well, wait, I have a question, what does your mom think about this? Like, she doesn't think you're working at the local 7-1. She don't know. She didn't know? No. she's you've got to be driving a nicer car like you've got to be no i didn't i didn't really um i didn't really you know you really you really couldn't tell you know i i didn't want people to know

i was a drug dealer right you know um i hid the fact that i was a drug dealer right i was in shame and i was a drug dealer you know it felt like i was cheating right and um my mom she had it she had hints that i was i mean she kind of knew but she didn't really know i I remember the first time she found my stash for money, you know, because I didn't live at her house no more. She put me out of her house, you know, said I was having too much traffic coming to her house, and she put me out, so I moved in with my cousin, but I still kept my money at her house in, you know, in my room.

I had a little spot, and I had throwing money and throw dirty clothes over, and one day she peeped my game. I guess I was coming in out of the house too much, because what I would do is I would stand on the track, and I would, you know, make five. thousand and I'd run to the house and put it up and go back to the track and do five thousand and come back and I'm doing this all day long you know all day all night I'm doing this I'm I'm I'm in love I mean I'm in like heaven now you know I'm making 40 50 thousand dollars every day you know like you go from where you can't buy 50 cent gas yeah you know what I'm saying

when gas was 50 cent I couldn't put gas in my car so now here I am making 50,000 60 thousand dollars every day um and i did it like it might end tomorrow you know i never wanted to leave the track you know and i don't even want to go get nothing to eat and my girlfriend at that time a mom was really strict so i could only see her you know when a mom was at work i had to sneak over and see her that type of situation so girls wasn't really on my mind uh at that time it was just that you know grab as much money as you could right yeah i was going to say i'm i like i went to prison for for bank fraud but there would be other guys that were with me as soon as they got money they're buying ridiculous cars and i didn't want any attention you know

like i never had like a a Porsche or a Ferrari or i didn't do any of that you know i had a nice outy you know i got them but people pined them to me yeah well you know they owe me money they say oh just keep the car yeah i just didn't want that attention you know i just felt like i don't need the attention i'm i already know this thing's gonna blow up at some point yeah i didn't i didn't want the attention either you know i wanted the money you know i like i like being anonymous you know i could walk down the street and people would be talking about me and and didn't know that was me um so i mean at what point do you because eventually you get a a huge connect in like south america right Yeah, yeah, I started getting connections, you know, from one of my teachers introduced me to a Nicaraguan.

Yeah, they was from Nicaragua, and, you know, Nicaragua was in a war with the contras. I mean, the contress was for Nicaragua and the San Dinosos from Nicaragua. So it was like a civil war going on in Nicaragua. Well, he introduced me to one, and they happened to be contours, which at that time was being back. by the CIA, by the United States. The Freedom fighters, right? The Freedom fighters, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was one of the best things that ever happened to me in the Coke game, you know.

Before them, I were paying like 3,200 for an ounce. And after I hooked up with them, I think the first time I bought some was like 2,600, and it was pure and better, and it just got better and better and better. so what's what's happening with the the contra thing like it isn't the the backstory that the CIA is is allowing them essentially or looking the other way absolutely bring in keys and then as of course they're taking that money and they're buying weapons and then they're they're arming the contras yeah yeah that's the whole well well what was going on over in central America was uh the russians was back in the the the the

Sandinistas. Right. And the CIA was back in the contras. Right. So the Soviets. There was the Soviet Union. It was the Soviet Union then? Yeah, yeah. It was the, like the Russians are now, it was the, it was the Soviets. Because, you know, when, when you, what you're my age, right? How old are you? 65. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, I'm 55. But I mean, you know, like it was Ronald Reagan and it was right. The war on drugs. And it was, it was. Reagan said he's going to be a contra forever. Yeah, yeah. The evil, that he was the evil empire, the Soviet Union, and the, and They were, they were trying to get, you know, Well, they were trying to get closer to America. Yeah. As close as they could get to America, if they ever needed to strike, you know, they would have a landing spot, right. Yeah.

So, uh, um, Nicaraguan was a key, was a key, they would be on this hemisphere, you know, so they didn't want that. They was already in Russia, I mean, Cuba. So, um, Ronald Reagan, them didn't want them because they felt that, you know, we'd have, uh, Soviet soldiers, you know, walking down our streets. and that was, you know, unacceptable in their eyes. And they said that they would do whatever it took. Matter of fact, my informant, when he testified,

he talked about Enrique Remutis, which was the head guy over their movement, went on a fishing trip with George W. Bush. And he said that when he came back and he told him that the ends justify the means, you know, so that's how they felt. It's just so bizarre that one branch of the that you've got one agency fighting you know to stop drugs from coming in you've got another agency who's given them the green light it just seems yeah you know somebody said uh did a joke when

we was in jail they say uh nancy regan say uh just say no the drugs and ronald said act like you don't know right yeah i remember watching those uh the hearing where he was like, I don't recall, I don't remember, at this time, I can't, you remember that? Yeah, yeah. Ali North, too, you know. Yeah, well, he told him, you know, the boss stops here, you know. Yeah. You ain't got to go no further to do what you're going to do.

It's going to stop right here with me. So it was interesting time, you know, that our country was going through what it went through. And then after that, you know, the actual war on drugs was, you know, another disaster. You know, with so many people who I felt didn't need to be locked up when I'd get some kind of bias because, you know, I felt like I didn't need to be locked up either for seven drugs, you know. I don't disagree that I should have been locked up. But the amount of time that they hand out is fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, that was ridiculous, too. But, you know, when you're doing, you're talking about drugs, though. You're talking about two grown-ups that consent to do something, you know. And we both know they're never going to stop drugs in the country. I mean, they can't even keep drugs out of their maximum security penitentiary. You know, my first week at USP Lompoc, a guy OD'd in the hole, you know. So if you can't keep drugs out of the hole or the maximum security penitentiaries, you definitely ain't going to be able to keep it out the country.

Why not tax it, save the money, and put drug rehabs everywhere? In education. Yeah, in education. You cut the population, the prison population, more than half. Yeah, yeah, because it skyrocketed doing the war on drugs. Yeah. You know, federal prison. When I got there, I think it was like 68,000 people in federal prison.

They're giving guys 15 years for, you know, he's selling a $20 crook. He's got a weapon, he's got a gun, in his closet, in his house, two miles away and, or two blocks away, and he's getting 15 years. And it's like, are you fucking serious? you're going to spend $30,000 a year to keep this guy locked up for 15 years for selling something that he's making $5 bucks on? And he gave my job making $30,000 a year. He probably wouldn't have did it.

Because if they had got to me before I started selling drugs, I probably would have never sold drugs. If I could have got a fair job, making a fair wage, where, you know, I could have saw myself doing all right. I never would have sold drugs. But once I got started...

All right, then it's hard to... It's a different animal now, you know, I'm going, I believe selling drugs is probably more addictive than even using. Yeah, well, it's got a huge recidivism rate. Fraud's got a huge recidivism rate because it, once you've done it and you see how easy it is, it's like, you know, like, oh, I can't, I'm supposed to go work at, I'm working at the gym. McNano's? Yeah, exactly.

Halfway house. And halfway else, I'm cleaning toilets at a gym. And I'm thinking, oh, man, I mean, I can, I could fill out some paperwork. I could, you know, get a little chunk of money, you know, just a little bit. Just start me off. Yeah, just to get a boost. Yeah. Yeah, because you're always looking for that boost.

You know, everybody needs that little jump start, you know. And it's amazing that we as a society has and set up a system where people can get that jump start. Did you ever think, because I get asked this question all the time, was, was there like a number that you thought, well, once I get this much money? My number kept changing, you know. Have you heard that? Because I was, I was, you're talking about a kid from South Central who mom was on welfare. I probably never saw $300 before, you know. So now you're talking about making $5,000 a day, 10,000 a day, 20,000 a day.

So when I first started, I wanted to make $5,000. That was my goal, being my partner. We're going to make $5,000. We're going to fix our low riders up. We're going to get us some wheels by lowriders. And then you're going to stop. We're going to stop. Yeah.

And then we're going to live in my mom's garage. You know, we had fixed my mom's garage. I put some little beds in there. We just going to, you know, just hang out in the garage and I low ride and chase girls every day. Yeah, mine was, it started, it was like, if I could just get $100,000. And then when I had the $100,000, and then it was like, you know, You know, if I could just get like 400, 500,000. Well, 100,000 are going to make your money easier.

Yeah. You can make money easier with 100. With 100,000, you could take the 100 and probably make 50 real easy. Yeah. Because you can buy better paperwork and. Well, you know, when I get to 100, then when it was, you got that, then it turned in 500, then it was a million, then it was two. And then I just, you know, I just started telling myself, I'm so fucking good at this,

bro. Like, you know, do you get delusional? You get, emboldened. I'm the best that ever did it. Of course. I'm the best ever did it. Of course. Nobody ever did it better.

me those other guys was flashy they was wearing gold they had the big cars and had the houses that's that's what they fucked up at yeah right it up until you're standing in front of the judge and he's you know yeah i went through you go through the same thing in the drug business you know horrible i want a million then 10 million then 15 million you know it's like yeah it's you know it's not till you're laying in that that caught i should have took my three million dollars and went to jamaica and bought me a nice little villa and just sealed out and over there in Jamaica

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and invest some money in Nicaragua, buy a house over here, Costa Rica. Were you getting busted and getting out on bond? or were you... No, because I know at one point... No, they didn't bust me. They formed... I had my own task force. What they did is...

What they say got me was that the people... The people got me. Because everybody was bragging about me. Oh, this young guy got all this money. You know, I was about 24 years old, 25. Your name keeps coming up. My name just, like, circling all around L.A.,

you know, Freeway Rick, Freeway Rick. and city hall had a meeting with the police department it was like who was this guy selling all this around here and and as you sent a documentary the cops they didn't believe that we had that kind of money you know especially with me because you know I didn't buy no bins I didn't buy no rose but there was a couple young guys who bought Rose Royces and and you know had all the all the trinkets I you know I had race cars and and race bikes but Those things would be like you take those off to the racetrack. You know, nobody is there, but the people in the racetrack and you fit in because everybody got those kind of cars at the racetrack.

So I didn't really flunt my wealth in the community, but there was other people who flunted their wealth inside of the community. So, but what got me is that people bragged about me too much. And what happened they, at some point, do they set you up or? They planted drugs on me the first couple times. you know i beat those cases what was the one where the they the uh the judge threw it out because it was so i mean i just remember from watching that the documentary it was so obvious yeah it was it was uh what happened is is it was strange and stroke of luck really right because i couldn't get no drugs for a couple days you know my people was out

i'm just going to go play basketball have some fun so at this particular night uh i was passing by my tire shop because I hadn't been in the neighborhood for a while and um I saw all the guys in the shop you know and they down gambling and shooting dice you know because they ain't making them money because they ain't no drugs so everybody's just gambling just they was drinking and doing their thing so I pulled over and got out and and hollered at them and so when I get ready to leave the whole dice game like 20 guys follow me to my car you know that's how they they treated me like I'm a right They want to make sure that I'm good.

So they all walk me to the car. I get in the car, me, Ali, and Cornel. And we take off, I'm taking Ali back to Manchester Park to get his car. And I look in the rear view mirror and I say a car coming up behind me with no lights on. And I was like, hey, man, there's a car coming up behind me with no lights on, you know, you know what that is. So Ali pulled out his gun. He had a 44 magnet who about that long. He said, yeah.

they're some jackers i'm gonna give it to him so uh i pulled up to a red light the car pulled right up on the side of me and let his window down it when it let his window down we could see the sheriff badge you know on the on the shoulder and uh i said damn that's tomar because they had just raided ow's house a week before that and they called him in his house and put a trash bag over his head and it was it was crazy um so when he said that he said you know tomar said he's going to kill you that's what i told me he said man he told him that he was going to kill me so i just mashed out on the car we had i tomor's one of the guys on the task force

yeah he's the he's the head guy okay he's the head guy for uh for the task force he's the one that called itself diablo the devil um and he's the one to testify it against other cops too. Right. He was in the dock, right? No, no, no. He wasn't in the dock. Because there was one guy in the dock who was a former police officer. Yeah, he was on that task force though. He was there that night too, but he wasn't Tomar was the head one. He was the guy

that, no, Soba was the head one. Tomor I've been so long, I'd get mixed up, but Sobo was the head one. Sobo was the one that they called Diablo. He's the one to turn state's evidence. Okay. Tohmore was another high rancor. So, anyway, we have a high-speed chase. We're going through South Central doing about 100 miles now.

So I look up, and then they got some more cars. They block the street off. So I just, whoop. And I do one of the numbers, what they call Stop and Road, where I stopped the car down slow enough so I could jump out, so I jump out the car. They shoot at me, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. But I wind up getting away.

You know, when the bullets come and you run extra fast. So I wind up getting away, get to the bus. I get on the bus. You know, my girl come pick me up. So I go to court. Well, I don't go to court right then. I stay on the run for about 60 days. My mama called me.

She's crying. Oh, you're all over the news. They say they're going to kill you. Turn yourself in, baby. You can't. So I'm like, all right. So I called my lawyer. Man, I'm going to turn myself in, see what my belt is.

He said, oh, they're going to. I got a million dollar bill for you. I said, all right, we'll post the bill, so we get ready to go turn myself in. And they had a $12.25 on the bill, meaning that all the property that you bring for got to be verified that it wasn't bought with drug money and the whole nine yards. So there's no way to get bail. I ain't getting bail. I ain't getting bail.

So while I'm in there, the cops come down to my cell and take me out my cell late at night. It was like almost a ride in the jail because the guys didn't want me to go. They was like, don't go, man. I said, no, man, we ain't fin to do this in here. They're going to tear us up. So go down there and they interrogate me

and talk about my lawyer and talk about how they set me up and, you know, the old nine yards, how they always get their man one way or the other. so and they told me I better not talk about it I better not tell my lawyer but not tell the judge nobody so I didn't until we did the preliminary hearing

so they was doing the preliminary hearing and they had one of the cops on the witness stand and when he got on the stand I told my lawyer I said man you know two weeks ago they came out to the jail and took me out and he said huh so he just started questioning the guy about

hey was you in the county jail two weeks ago because you know they got a sign here sign out and all that and his cameras and yeah he said yeah i was down he said did you see my client yeah we saw him he requested it he said uh so my lawyer was like you know i'm his lawyer man you don't talk on the phone many times you know you're supposed to call me and uh anyway then he hit him with did y'all record that yeah we recorded it so uh when they got the tapes it was all spliced up and beat up so the judge was like this is outrageous

you know throwing this case out and the prosecutor she tried to say the case but you know uh well we didn't have nothing to do with it you judge told her you lucky you didn't it doesn't matter yeah you're lucky you didn't have nothing to do with this

so so they threw the case out you know and what so when you got out what happened and you hadn't been doing anything in months like I left I left the state You know, I said I'd rather go somewhere that I'm going to go to jail for something I did rather than something I didn't do, you know, because I was totally in, that was a totally bunk case, you know, they planted the drugs and everything that night.

Where'd you go? Cincinnati, Ohio, St. Louis. I mean, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Louisiana, Texas. Where'd you end up? Well, I stayed more in Cincinnati. Oh, okay. Oh, you were just kind of back-up. Because I stopped flying, you know, I could, in those, those cities, you know, you could jump in the car and just, you know, Indiana, you know, just ride from city to city.

And I stopped flying almost totally. Well, I mean, were you, you were still dealing? You were still distributing. Yeah, yeah, I was still selling. It was better down there. I went down there. L.A. I was getting, I was getting it for like 10,000. And in Cincinnati, it was like 30.

38, 37, you know. So I'm making a greater profit per unit than I ever did before, but I'm not selling as many units. Okay. How long does, I mean, how long does this go on? A year. I didn't last long in Cincinnati. It was too small.

Yeah, it was too small. Everybody in the town knew who I would. I thought, I thought, because I was using an alias name, you know, I had fake driver's license, but. Did it matter? Or they still know it was you from a? LA or they just knew that identity. They knew my face. They didn't know my name, but when it's funny, you know, my girlfriend from Cincinnati, she called me, because I left before I got

indicted, but she called me. She said, oh, you was on the news. She called me Charlie. I told everybody my name was Charlie. Hey, Charlie, they got you on the news, but they got the wrong name. I said, yeah, what name they got? They got Ricky Ross. I know what they got the right name? No, they got the right name. They know who I am. So I wind up getting indicted there, and I go down and I take a deal. You know, wind up taking a deal down here. What was that indictment for?

Traffic and distribution. I didn't know. I mean, how are they putting you together? Like, how was there they built, was there a task force that there was a bust? It was a task force. One of my guys, they gave him a bunk case, too. It wasn't his case. It was totally bunk.

I had, the nigger Rockwinds wasn't moving, and it was right before the first. So what I did is I flew to L.A. and I got, I got nine kilos, and I had a guy to get on the bus with him and bring him to me. Well, while he was on the bus, somebody was smoking with him the bus, and they brought the dog, and they found the kilos. They didn't get him, though. He jumped off the bus. So the time that he was supposed to be there Me and one of my partners We go to the bus station to pick him up So when we get to the bus station

We're getting ready to walk in the bus station And I look and I dropped my beeper I said dang I dropped my beeper Let me go get my beeper So I go to get the beeper He went on into the bus station And They say that he asked for a bag

That he'd never seen and I never told him about it. Right. So they arrested him and gave him 20 years for that. So that started the investigation. And so did they indict you on that investigation? They didn't indict me then.

It just started a whole investigation into you that culminated. What I found out, the way they work is he was from my area. Right. So if somebody from my area got arrested, they figured more than likely I was involved yeah because I figure you're the you're the main supplier correct for that area somebody's got to flip on summit and they're going to get to you at some point so when when he got arrested and indicted apparently they called the sheriffs the ones who had planted the drugs and right and they came down and they got all the pictures

so they're going around showing me a picture everybody and and they build a case so I really get a get off on that on that case because you know i was doing about 40 49 maybe 50 a month and they want to let me take a deal for for 49 it's just 149 what how much what does that end up being how many times 10 years 10 years in where in Cincinnati in federal prison federal prison yeah yeah yeah yeah and when i took the deal uh the deal was contingent on if the sheriffs get indicted then

and I testify against the sheriffs that they would cut it to five we're praying for an indictment I mean well I already knew they was going to indict this they had them you know they because you know what

after we did our report you know I hired a part of an investigator to investigate the police so when we turn over our evidence to to to because I I had a CCE in L.A. I had a CCE case in L.A.,

but it was all contingent on what the sheriffs were saying. So once we turned over the investigation on the sheriffs, they dropped my CCE, and then they turned to them, and then they had some undercover cops, feds, to get the sheriffs. They was posing as Colombian drug dealers with $500,000 at a hotel room, and the sheriffs broke in, took the money, stole all the money, whooped the feds, just like they did. They whooped them.

Because, you know, they had me handcuffed and my hands and my feet. And they let the dog bite me up. All these are a flashlight therapy. All these scars you see in my face come from when the police was beat me in the face while I was handcuffed. And they let the dog bite me all on my leg. I got some nasty dog bite wounds on my leg while I was handcuffed. So they were bad actors. So they end up getting arrested.

So how much time do you end up doing on that case? I did five years, four months. All right. And you get back out? Mm-hmm. You get back out. You get a job as an accountant? No, no, no.

No? Right back to it? No, no, no. I didn't go back to it. I quit selling drugs a year before I got arrested. Oh, I didn't know. Okay. Yeah, I was, I was, after my friend that I was told you at the bus station got to his time and I said how they did him, I was like, damn, they arrest you like that. no evidence you ain't touched the drugs no fingerprints on nothing i was like that's crazy

ghost so i quit i was like shit i can't get him out you know i spent about 70 000 trying to keep him out of jail you know and he got 20 years um but he had a prior he had a prior uh i was like shit if i can't keep him out ain't nobody gonna be out here to keep me out so i quit i went home and started back uh developing my real estate you know i I had quite a few pieces. I had about 30 houses, a couple apartment buildings, a junkyard, a body shop, tie shop, beauty salon, shoe store. You know, I had all kind of stuff.

You know, I just used to buy businesses because I was looking for a business to buy my Rose Royce. Right. You know, I had motels. So I said I was going to create a business that would buy me all the toys that I wanted instead of the drugs behind the toys. So, no, I didn't go back to selling drugs. When I got out, my informant called me, though,

the same day I got out. Hey, congratulations, you home. La, la, la, la. Nah, I ain't getting back. So my goal was to start doing the music business, you know. I would sell these with a guy named Harrio who helped start death row records,

and I was right there in the cell when they started different records. So I kind of saw what they did, and I was like, I can do the same thing in the record business. So I bought this old theater that I was going to turn into like a West Coast Apollo, and I felt that this theater would be where every rapper would want to come on that stage. When they came to L.A., that would be the stage to get on. So I was building that out, and I fell behind on my payments.

You know, my payments was like $6,000 a month. I think I put down 900,000 down on it Oh like 300,000 And I was in trouble about to lose it And my informant knew And he just kept And why are you asking people to help you You can help yourself

I got 700 kilos And Started off at 17,000 a kilo And You know, by the time they had reel me in He was talking about like 9,5 a kilo This went on for six months

And then finally I got one of my little homies I introduced them and I got ready to do a dope deal we hand them the money and affairs come from everywhere My whole life flashed Before me You know I'm gonna go to prison forever

Because I pled guilty in multiple states Right On that first on that first arrest But that's what got them though So you know So because you pled guilty on multiple cases already You know you're Oh, yeah, I'm a three-striker.

I'm a three-striker, 8-51. So, I mean, wait, is this a state case, or this is federal? Federal. Yeah, so your criminal history is off the chart at this point. Yeah, it looks like it. Right. It looks like it. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. But it's... But it's really not. Yeah, but... Because I only been arrested one time. You didn't know that. I didn't understand the logistics of it. I knew, because I had friends that had been three strikers.

You know, they had life sentence for three strikes, you know, three drug deals. So I didn't understand what a strike was. Right. Because I never had one before. I'd only been in jail one time. So when they take me in, they're looking at, oh, yeah, you play guilty here, here, here, you got strikes. You're done. But then I started reading the law and then like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's not a strike. And that's a continuous criminal spree. What I was doing was a continuous criminal spree because I'd never been brought to my census. So you can't count that as a strike. And nobody, nobody would listen to me until it got to the appeals court. So you get sentenced on three, you get sentenced with these multiple violations and that gets you a life. That's what gets you life. Yeah, yeah.

Even though you argued, so you just never argued it to begin with? No, I argued it. But what, you're lawyer. I learned, I learned, by the time I get sentenced, I learn what a strike is. You know, I know what the strike is. My lawyer, what threw my lawyer off is that St. Louis strike, Cincinnati strike, Louisiana strike, different states. Okay. He thought because they were different states, they were now related.

It's all, it's all kind of like all a continuing enterprise. I'm continuing, I'm a continually doing the same thing. It's called continuous criminal spree. Right. So how long the break does there have to be for it to be considered separate? Is there a timeline or intervening arrest? Oh, okay. Okay, but because you were basically you were kind of arrested and then you play guilty at all the same time.

So they're just doing everything they can just to just to hammer you. So you understand intervening arrest. But they couldn't understand what intervening arrest means. You know, I'm trying to tell them like intervening arrest means that you have to get arrested, go to jail, get out get arrested again go to jail get out now you're a three striker

right but if you're just going around the country selling drugs and nobody never catch you right you know and and you know I won my case with uh with

with a court appointing attorney right because my my paid attorney he wouldn't he wouldn't take the case no one he told me to take my last little money and put on my books because I was going to need it And so Ronald, Frank Reagan, matter of fact, that's his name, Frank Reagan. Rest in peace, he died last year, great dude. And he listened to me. And I told him, I said, Frank, we got to argue this case.

Safeness of a guy was a great guy. Never did nothing wrong. Worked a job, but his kid needed surgery. And they needed $70,000. And then he saw this spot where they sold drugs at Well these guys are making $100,000 a day So he goes to this spot And he makes this $70,000 at that spot

Frank he didn't sell to one person He sold to probably three or four hundred people Each one of those sales is an over act Technically each sale is a separate offense Right So in one day he could become a career criminal Right. Yeah, based on their logic. Based on their logic.

But that's not the way it works. The forefathers had enough sense to say, you know what? A person can make 10 sales in one day. It's easy to do. Easy to do 10 sales in one day. So you can't say a person is a career criminal in one day, you know? So that's the way we wrote it up and the field's court agreed with us. This took 20 years of fighting it before.

you oh no I won my appeal around probably around seven years I thought I was in eight years maybe nine so they dropped it down to what like 25 years they dropped it down first they dropped it to 22 okay and then I won another appeal and I got it knocked down to 14 okay so how much time did you do on that one 14 years in eight months you were sentenced to 14 years and you did 14 years well no I probably was sentenced to more than 14 years. I don't remember the exact. I did.

I'm thinking good time. No, I actually did 14 years and eight months. Okay. So I probably was sentenced to 16. Yeah, something like that. I don't remember. Yeah. But yeah, somewhere in that number.

But it started, the first appeal that won that they dropped it to 22. You know, the appeals court told the judge she couldn't give me more than 22 years because it wasn't a three striker. They could only charge me with one strike. So they did that. And then when Bougar and FAMFAM came out, I got another sentence reduction. Is that the crack law, what they call the crack law?

No, Booker and FAMFAM was, I don't know if you remember, but at one time, the judges didn't have discretion. Yes, yeah, okay. So when you were sentenced, they didn't have discretion, but that gave them back the discretion. They had to go by the guidelines when you were sentenced. Right. So when they gave them that,

then she could take in the educational thing and I don't know my judge she was the same one gave me the life sentence you know it was crazy but when I came back she had a different attitude you know but I told I was coming back I was like I'm coming back she said I'll be here when you get here and when I walked in the courtroom you know what she told me the first thing oh you kept your word and she could have dismissed my whole case

you know my informant had a fake green card okay that the government gave him to be here yeah yeah because you know if you're convicted felon they say he sold over 10,000 kilos and if you are a convicted drug trafficker you must be deported right the only two people can stop you from being deported is the president of the united states and attorney general him the only two um or uh or a or a federal agent who's willing to slip you a fake great card. And the INS agent, he got up there and he said, oh, I didn't know the guy was a convicted felon.

Come on. But see, that was enough. I felt that that was enough for the jury. He should have knew that. That he didn't know he was, he didn't know that this guy was that. It's crazy. It's hard to explain. But you get the picture.

And I felt the judge should have gave me a new trial for that. so when you eventually you do get you get out what what year did you get out oh nine oh nine you get because you remember the crack law right obviously that came later yeah but i mean but i mean you heard about listen i was in the medium security prison at uh coleman and there were guys that were getting their heads shaved but they would have crack law in their you know in their hair like i mean it was just Yeah. And guys were going home. It was like every other day, guys were getting their time cut, going home,

immediate release. He's got 30 years and he's done 20 years. I was in the first crack riot. Oh. When they first... Where was that? Phoenix, Arizona. They burned the place up.

Yeah, they were just handing out so much time. Yeah, those guys, young guys, too, man, 20 years old, 19 years old, 18 years old. Matter of fact, one of my cellies, my first cellie at MDC was 18. years old they gave him 20 years for two ounces crazy um so you got out you started over what you know what did you start doing i know there was a law there was a lawsuit with uh rick ross the rapper yeah mr lawyer talked me into doing that um didn't go well we wind up losing in court um the judge that I filed my case five days later than I should have

I should have filed before I got out of prison so I lost that what else? Five days. Selling hair. I sold hair for a while and I went on Joe Rogan's and we came up with this t-shirt right here. Right. You know, I went on Joe's and I'm like, shit Joe Rogan got money give me a little money.

Throw me a bond, dog. So I'm telling me like, man, I'm doing bad. you say you like my hustle you know throw me something man and uh he said man you know what you need you need a t-shirt i was like oh fuck i need some money you know to myself you know but uh i you know it wasn't his job to get me no money you know it wasn't his job to help me out but anyway i left i left the show and you know i was a little disappointed in joe um and i'm walking down the street one day and this kid and then Rick Cross comes up right

no white kid you know goofy little white kid and he's like hey Rick Ross I saw you on Joe Rogan and I was like oh yeah how you doing we take a picture and he was like man I got a t-shirt idea for you

I said oh my goodness another one of those right he said I said what's the idea he said the real Rick Ross is not a rapper the corny as shit in the world he said i'll do everything he said i'll print the t-shirt up i'll make it i'll design it i said you're going to do all that i ain't got to do nothing i ain't got to put no money up or nothing he said no you ain't got to do nothing just come and take pictures with the shirt on i say bet so we switch numbers and he called me a couple weeks later and he's like man

come by to my store and um i got the t-shirts done so i go by and take pictures in the shirt and whatnot and uh he gave me like a hundred of them right for myself I sold a whole hundred the same day in the in the documentary it said you had a a t-shirt company that shows you doing a screen print that was later though

oh that was later that was later this is after you know he gave me just as kind of just the first few when he gave me a hundred a hundred shirts was like that was I was just getting in the t-shirt game and I go in I sell them and I'm like I go back to him with a thousand bucks I say man I got

a thousand bucks i need to buy some of them t-shirts so i started selling t-shirts man and uh these shirts got me out of you know homelessness me we was homeless you know i had two kids and my girl we we was living in a baking apartment you know so uh um these t-shirts helped me out the whole lot you know the idea that joe gave me you know are you still are you still making the t-shirts yeah you still i do we still sell a little bit they i don't push them like i used to right you know i should go stand in front of the supermarket with them you know everybody walked by and hey buy one of my t-shirts because i kind of felt like you know i see people they take care of bums you know bums they know they know they're going to go buy drugs with their money and uh i felt that um if they give them money

you know would they help a hustler right you know somebody that's going to do something with the money somebody that's going to take that money and make that money work for not only themselves but for others as well and it worked so what are you doing now and what's what's what's oh what am i doing now i mean what i just had one the biggest phone calls yesterday of my life um the guy that ryan who uh who did the movie with sinners we had a great conversation yesterday uh about him coming on helping me with my movie um i haven't seen that movie i want to see that movie i want to see it though they're gonna get to see it i think it's it's gotta be i haven't seen promotion for it's like gonna be on you know your home tv probably today yeah it was it was in the theaters i was my wife

was gonna go see it when we were we were in miami it's it's funny because it's two different things right like it starts it's it's like a speak easy or a bar but then all of a sudden there's vampires yeah and they're you know so it's i haven't saw it either it got really good reviews i'm not i'm not really good oh the numbers is crazy yeah My movie, though, the number's going to be bananas. Because I've worked, you know, I worked these streets. You know, I got in a van and I drove from California to Miami selling books and T-shirts, you know. So I know, I would almost be willing to bet that there's nobody on the Internet that has pictures with other people.

more than me right because i saw something you know because i study you know i'm a study or so i see all these entertainers and i say oh they don't really take pictures with other people with their fans they don't really picture up with their fans so uh that became one of my goals to take pictures with all my fans and so everywhere i go people would be like oh man get a picture get a picture get a picture so just like when we went to the barbershop right now i just took like 15 pictures. Yeah. Well, it kills me that, because I've known some guys that have known actors and stuff, and they'll get upset when people approach them for a picture or an article or like an autograph,

they're like, man, I'm eating, man. What do you do? You know, it's like, bro, you would have begged to have people trying to take it. When you had nothing. Yes. And you know what I'm saying? I always think, man, I would never be like that. And I'm always stay humble.

You know, I don't never want to get bigger than the people. So can I ask you a question about snowfall? I had the whole time snowfall was going and it was going it was running when I was locked up everybody was saying that that was based on on your story absolutely okay I don't really know how it how it unfolded well John Singleton when I got out I thought John Singleton would be the perfect person to shoot my movie okay you know he's from South Central LA supposedly supposedly he did some great movies and I thought that me and him working to together would be dynamic. Matter of fact, he went with me. Me and him went together to the documentary. When the documentary debuted, premiered, we went to the theater together. And he bought one of my first books. He bought one of my demo books. It was just sad that, you know, that he didn't. And, you know, I don't think it was all on him. You know, Hollywood, Hollywood is something else. You know, I found out that they don't really like to do business with convicted felons.

know they'd rather steal the the intellectual property that pay you for it yeah yeah and they're giving money to a felon yeah so i've seen that i believe i was locked up i wrote seven books 22 synopsies i wrote there's a movie called war dogs uh with jonahill and i the real effron devoroli i was locked up with him i wrote his memoir he sued warner brothers i sued him Warner brothers I mean you know it was all it was a whole whole thing but you're right they they would rather just take your take it from you then to actually pay you it's it's a whole I would say whenever I talked to the about producers and shit bro I'd be honest with I'd rather deal with fucking inmates yeah you know they're they're roofless

yeah I went in and I spoke to or Emanuel okay Mark Wahlberg took me to his office Jeff Byrd Nick Casabetti took me to his office Michael Lenton, Erf Gotti, and Erf Gotti and somebody else took me to his office. And they offered me almost the same amount of money, $600,000, $620,000, something like that there.

It's something that, and they wanted me to hire a certain lawyer, you know, the lawyer was going to get $200,000 and then taxes. And I probably would have been had enough to give me a nice car. Right. Right.

And I walked out of there and then, anyway, Mark, Mark calling and was like, hey, man, or we don't think you're going to ever get your movie done, but he said, you got nuts. So I told him, thanks, you know, thank you guys for the offer. But I didn't come here to sell my story. So I'd always plan on doing it independent. And we set up right now, we got a great script.

And people are going to be shocked. They're going to get to see a real drug story that wasn't tainted by Hollywood. But, you know, my story's not going to be tainted. I refuse to have my character wearing a dress or doing something that I didn't do. You know, I wanted to be told the way it really was, you know, the way I saw it. You got to come back when it premieres. We can do that. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching.

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