Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Real Story Behind a Multi-Million Dollar iPhone Scam

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

Ray Haug shares his life story and how they made thousands with an iPhone scam.⁣ ⁣ Ig: _panicgale_⁣ FB: Raymond haug ⁣ LinkedIn: raymond-haug⁣ ⁣ Get 15% when you use my link https://buy.ver.so/cox , this will auto apply the code "COX" when clicked.⁣ ⁣ Get 50% sitewide for a limited time. Just visit https://GhostBed.com/cox and use code COX at checkout.⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://forms.gle/5H7FnhvMHKtUnq7k7⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ 📧Sign up to my newsletter to learn about Real Estate, Credit, and Growing a Youtube Channel: https://mattcoxcourses.com/news⁣ ⁣ 🏦Raising & Building Credit Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/credit ⁣ 📸Growing a YouTube Channel Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/yt⁣ 🏠Make money with Real Estate Course: https://mattcoxcourses.com/re⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I was pulling 40 grand a month. We would hit a city for like three, four months until the store is caught on. They couldn't do anything because it's not illegal. So what we were doing is come from a long line of inmates. My mom and dad were fishermen and he was an old school coke addict in Seattle and overdosed when I was five. Looking back now in like recovery, I have like nine years clean, but like analyzing like my teenage years, I feel like. Like my early drug use and like IV drug use was probably like an attempt to like connect with my father, you know, because like I started using IV drugs at like 14, you know.

So we were in and out of group homes, foster homes, homeless. Oh, wow. Went bad, that went that quick. Yeah, my mom, she wasn't a drug addict, but she dealt with her own like problems, always working three jobs and stuff like that. So she did her best and like we were just like not supervised. The first crime I ever did or like got arrested for, I was. 13, me and my brother had been sneaking out at night and like breaking into cars in the neighborhood,

stealing stuff from stores when we were shopping with my mom or whatever. And that was like so easy for us. We kind of like, like we weren't drinking or doing drugs yet, but we knew that if we stole alcohol, that would be like upping the ante. So we started hitting beer runs at our local safeway like two, three times a day. And like so we would just change our outfits and then go in there. And like, so what we would do is I'd have a backpack on. And then my brother would be behind me and he would like throw stuff in the backpack and then we go out. So, um, we got caught one time. I ran. My brother got snatched. Uh, I ride. I'm on a bike. I'm a kid. Right. And so I, I, uh, take a long way through the neighborhood and I go home and there's seven

sheriffs outside my house, right? So I don't go home immediately. Um, when we do go, when I do go back, I went to the neighbor's house and he talked me into like going and talk to the cops, right? So we go, we walk in and, um, they had like three months of footage of me and my brother, like, from that same safe way, just stealing beer the whole time. And we had a tree house with, uh, like, 250 bottles up there. Like, we weren't even drinking. Like, we were just stealing just for the thrill of it. Like, and, uh, so that's where we, that was our first court interaction. So that put us in the juvenile system. We had to do, uh, drug and alcohol classes. Uh, we were on juvenile probation from that point forward. You know, we got, uh, theft charge. So,

the reason we ended up in group homes and foster homes is because by this time, I'd probably been arrested like 12, 15 times as a juvenile. And my mom didn't come pick me up. Like, she just left me there. So I got my release date. She wasn't there when you're a juvenile. If your parents, you're not released to your parents, then the state takes over and it's like, hey, you're, so they let me go after they found a group home for me to go in.

At that point, I was by myself, but like, I would always run from the group homes and, like, and stuff like that. And so they knew, my probation officer knew that, like, home life was, like, crazy. Like, so, and he knew I was going to leave the group home. So he let me stay. He's like, look, Ray, you can, like, smoke a tree. He's like, you can fail for trees. He's like, I don't care about that.

He's like, you can stay at your girl's house. Just like, I need to know where you are and stop doing, like, powder and, like, X stuff like that, you know? And so, like, he was really cool and, like, tried to help me get off probation. And I did get clean for a little bit. like four months and I ended up getting off paper when I was 17. I got off paper and then within four months I had relapsed and then you know started selling drugs again and then I ended up in a bad situation I owed some people some money

my brother at this time him and me were together like we always like that never sounds good I got a bad sister about how four of what that sentence is That was a bad situation. I owed some people some money. My first thought is like that just doesn't sound like a good situation. No, so my brother and me, we never like lived together, but we always work together, right? And I had like better connections in Seattle. And so at the time, I had the connection for Brown.

Right. And so I was getting it. I was picking up like an ounce or two ounce, you know, up to a QP a day. And then what I would do is I'd drop off half to my brother where he was staying and he'd get rid of that. And then, you know, we'd re up. ended up driving for my plug. Like, in Seattle, like, you call to Mexicans or whatever, and they tell you what corner to meet you on.

They come pick you up. You know, you do whatever. And then you leave. My guy's driver had robbed him, like, stole a car. So he said he couldn't meet me that day. And I was like, well, you need someone to drive? And he's like, no, I just use people from my country. I was like, okay, well, whatever, hit me up.

Like, a couple weeks later, he offered me a job to, like, drive for him. So, like, after that, I didn't have to, I was just, like, totally on front, right? So I had a bunch of dope. I would just go out to my brother, drop off the stuff, and then I would sell for the other guy the whole time. So now I didn't have to buy anything. I was just getting paid off making this dude's deliveries and then selling my stuff through my brother. I had two apartments, one where I, like, slapped and, like, kept everything. And then I had another one where I stashed all the dope and, like, whatnot.

I got robbed. The guy who had, who's staying at the apartment where I kept all my dope, we were there. And he must have, like, he, like, roofied me or some shit. like I woke up the next day. My safe was gone. Like, but he left me in the house. And I was like, this stupid is stupid. So,

uh, me, I called my brother up. We cleaned the house out. And we were sitting in a car trying to figure out what to do because he took my safe. And at the time, I'm 17, right? Like I don't know that like, you know,

a couple thousand dollars is probably not a big deal to my plug. But to me, I'm like, it's a big deal, right? Right. So me and my brother are sitting there. We don't got any of the dope. I'm supposed to meet up.

I was supposed to meet up to the guy at like 10 in the morning, right? And I own money and I lost all the dope that I had for him. He'd probably let you just work it off. Like, you know. Yeah, dude.

Right. And my experience now as an adult going through like all the stuff. Like, but as a kid, I was like, I, you know. Yeah,

you're terrified. Oh my God. Yeah. I know, I own Mexican connected to the cartel, possibly thousands of dollars. They'll kill me. Which is funny because down the road,

the shit, the dude got robbed. Like, every now and then like a driver would just like not come back with his car or whatever. And he's like, I'm not tripping. Like,

It's like five grand, whatever. It's the cost of doing business. Yeah, he wasn't tripping. But I didn't know that. So me and my 16 year old brother and my buddy who was like, my driver, were in the car and we were trying to figure out what to do. And my brother leaves, right? And when he comes back, he has a whole cash register in his hands, right?

And so he's like, drive, dude. Like, and we peel out. So we go to the neighborhood. And he's like, we're going to get your money, bro. I was like, okay. So that's what we started doing. So we would go, we started in Seattle. And we worked our way up 99, 99.

9's like the big highway out there all the way up to Everett. And we would hit four or five convenience stores, 7-Elevens, gas station, smoke shops a day. So we would just go in. I would have a hood on. I would go to buy a candy bar or a Gatorade. As soon as they pop the till, I come across, I grabbed the till, and I just dip. Usually it was pretty straightforward like that. And, I mean, it's not a good lick.

Like, you're risking a rob one, like, a serious strikeable offense. Yeah, tops. Like the best one I got was like $480, right? So we got the money back same day. Like it was like $2,400. I owed a guy, right? So I just called my plug and I was like, hey, sorry, I overslept. I was partying.

No problem. I'm back on. Like, I give him his money. I'm back driving. So, but at the time, so mind you, I'm 17, almost 18. I've been like doing Brown like consistently since I was 14. Like, this is just like my lifestyle now. I really, really liked the robberies.

Like that like, I was going to say. You would think that at that point, I just came with $2,400 in a day. You'd think something would have clicked in your head. Because I was thinking to myself after that, I would have been like, oh, oh, no. It was too easy. Like, I was like, this is the way to go. Well, that's what I was thinking. As a kid, I was like, this is, you know, like, this, no effort.

Like, I'm not going to get caught. It's like, to me, I thought, I didn't have a gun or anything. I was like, it's not a big deal. I didn't know how sentencing worked. I didn't know that, like, it was a rob one, whether I had a gun or not, right? Because. Well, and you risk the, the, the, the, potential of causing harm or I was going to say or robbing some guy who and he's got a gun and

you think yeah what oh okay we get there so so I'm selling drugs and I'm doing robberies after work right just for fun um and of course that's a given it was like it was the new high you know because like the drugs weren't doing shit and uh I like I literally I was making money selling drugs like I didn't need to do it it was just it was fun right um So there's one time, me and my driver, we go out. My brother's not with me at this time. And we go in and I hit this convenience store and it's this little, little lady behind the counter. And I go to grab the till just like normal.

And she grabs my hood and slams my head into the counter, right? Bam, right? And she's got me by the hair. My hair was like medium length at this time, right? She has me by the hair and she's like, like, whirming me up, like clawing my face. Like I was bleeding. So I decked her. I laid her out, like slept her.

and I grab the till I go out there's a check in there and like maybe $80 right and I have my glasses are missing a lens like I'm up like I have the till

we get in the car and I just knock this old lady out right and so I told my buddy I was like bro I'm not hitting old ladies no more like we gotta get a pistol like I'm not I don't want to

yeah I almost got caught bro like also I had to hit a lady so he's like okay so we got a pistol after that which did two things one it made the robbery just go way smoother.

Like, you pull up, especially in a convenience store, they don't want nothing. You just go in, they're like, and... Yeah, they're making eight bucks an hour. They don't go,

no, they'll take it, dude. And for me, what I got addicted to that, like, that power I had over the situation. So we started, like,

just doing it a lot, a lot, a lot. And, long story short. No, so my brother, this,

so my brother, he gets into a DV situation with his girlfriend. friend. He calls me up. Me and Matt are doing our robberies. I tell him like, hey, just chill out. I'll come pick you up, right? And he's like, oh, well, she took the dope and everything. Right. I was like, I don't care. Just like, you know, I'll come grab you. So I go pick him up. This dumbass. He, him and his girl got in like a fist fight and they always did. And she called the cops on him. And he took her phone now. So like, I had picked him up, but they had pinged her phone because he took it. So that's

where we all got arrested. Like we were sit. I just picked him up. And then we get arrested. They take all of us to jail. They take me and my driver to jail for possession, and we had some stolen plates in the car for doing the robberies and stuff like that. And they take my brother in for assault, right, on his baby's mom. At this time, in our area, like, we were on the news and everything, but they didn't know it was us. Yeah, they just looked for the robbers.

Yes, right? my brother doesn't know that like that's why we're getting arrested right so the detect and he's what 17 16 he so when we're all sitting down there me and me and the driver get booked and released right just we have no records like i just got off probation whatever like all that stuff was wiped Matt didn't have a record at all so they book and release us for the possession and the stolen stuff in the car right and so they just gives a court date come back my brother's staying because he has an assault 2 dv like on his girl right but then he just free gives them all the robberies and the drug dealing because he thinks where that's why we got arrested.

The detective walks into you. You know why we're here. Obviously because of the robberies. Yes. So that they're like, yes. Yeah. So that happens. I'm unaware of this.

Me and Matt go back to business as usual. I'm just, my brother's in jail. He's beat up his girl. Like, I'm like he's not getting out for a little bit, right? Right. So I have no idea of this stuff is happening. So now they're on to you? Yes.

Now they're what following you? Well, they pick up my driver. They pick up him by himself. And then he also tells him everything, right? Of course. And then I catch wind of this because then the detectives. They weren't, they didn't, nobody had explained the street code. No.

No. I mean, at this point in my life, I thought me and my brother were solid on it. You know, like. I felt like we knew. Yeah. Because, I mean, we've been a juvenile drug court. We've been doing this since we were like 13. I was like, I thought it was understood.

Right. It was. It was. It was. It was. His understanding was, this is the way to go. Your understanding was like, oh, no, you don't tell anybody on it. Don't ever tell anybody.

He thought that. Yeah, we have a different understanding of that. We talk a lot about crime on this show, but let's face it, some of the biggest crimes are committed by the government. You've heard the story before. Big Pharma swoops in to take control. Now, the FDA is trying to reclassify NMN and natural compound in foods. like broccoli and avocados as a pharmaceutical drug. Why? Because NMN is so effective they want to turn it into a pricey drug,

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Click the link in the description box or head over to verso, v-eer.s-o, and use the promo code Cox for 15% off your first order. Get it while you still can and take control of your health before the FDA and big pharma take it out of your hands. Matt gets out. My driver gets out and he's like, hey man, your brother's telling on us, blah, blah, blah. I was like, my brother's still in jail and you're out. So I beat his ass, right? I was like, you're fucking, bro. Right? And the detectives go to my mom's house and my mom calls me and she's like, hey, you need to come like turn yourself in. I was like that, right? And I went on a run. So now, but now you realize.

Yeah, now they're looking for me, right? They know who I am. They're looking for me. They already got my brother. They got Matt. Matt's dealing with whatever he's doing. So, I mean, I get arrested. I ended up turning myself in like a couple months later.

I was just like this. I couldn't do, like my whole shit had just like falling apart, right? And now I'm on the news. Like, so I turn myself in. And when I go in, they're like, hey, we don't, the text was come in. And I'm like, I don't got to talk to you. They're like, we don't even need to talk to you. And they handed me a packet of paper.

And it was like an 18 page statement. from both of them. And that, and that shit, like, it broke my heart, you know, because it was, it caused a lot of issue between me and my brother for a while after that. But that started my, uh, my, my first prison term. So, um, like I said, I graduated juvenile drug court, so I had no charges going in. Uh, they could only put me, I didn't, they had me on nine robberies. Uh, that's where they had me, like, wearing the same sweatshirt or whatever, I think these ones.

But I didn't. The only two that Matt and my brother said I did, those are the only ones that I pled out to, like, because they couldn't prove to other ones because I was like by myself, right? Right. So I didn't plea out to any of those. I fought it. I took the two, and I pled out to two Rob twos, and I got a year and a day for my first sentence. Oh, you're just fine. I did great.

Yes. Like a test. Yes. Well, what I didn't know, and I met Brandon in the county when we were. were both fighting that um both of us took our first plea bargains and brandon is how brandon is the was it what was the name of the niki the video was nintendo scammers stealing from nintendo yeah yeah okay so brandon did the stealing from nintendo i'm not really a game guy he was selling the we we sticks right yeah yeah yeah yeah we is it we yeah he was selling well he was he was uh taking the claims

and selling the consoles oh yeah yeah yeah but what some of the claims were like people were you know, doing the Wii sticks and like hitting the TVs or something like that. And he told me about that in jail, but I met him in county on his 14 counts of robbery. Yeah. We were in the same tank. Yeah, like his real story, his real crime story is the robberies. Yeah. But we kind of packaged it like Nintendo.

Yeah. He's stealing from Nintendo because he did do that. Yeah, yeah. It was good. So anyway, he, he, that's how we got connected. Yes, that's how we got connected. And I mean, that's, that part's not really super interesting. all that started that that that was my gig after that I was like okay cool I'm I'm I'm

I'm a stick up kid and I sell dope like that's like it was some people some people it wasn't working for you you just got out to prison it was working for me bro it was working for me all right I'm an idiot at this point also also I had I had no comprehension of like I was fresh 18 right so like I had no comprehend my experience was pretty significant with the system but it was all in the juvenile courts, which were, they did how to do like, what, 16 weeks, like for, they sent you in weeks. Like, you can get. Yeah, they're kind of, they're kind of handling you with kid gloves.

They're still trying to turn you around as a kid. It might know. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But what I think it all it did for me as, like, an individual was like, like, disensitize me to the system to where I thought it was kind of a joke, you know, like, and I didn't really realize the severity of, like, getting a strikeable offense. Like, so I, I played guilty to a strike. And like now I'm in the system.

I only did a year or a day. I got a slap on the hand for like robberies. I'm doing stickups. Like I was like, this is at my 18 year old brain's like I can do whatever I want. Right. So I do my little four months after whatever, a good time. I get out nine months after my sentence. Weeks out.

Like one of the first things I do, I don't have any money. Like I walk across street from where I'm staying and I go knock off a smoke shop. Jeez. And I come back. I'm sitting there on the porch. with my, because I had them put a bunch of cartons and marreds in there. I'm cigarette watching the cops like over at investigate, right? And, but I don't even get like a good run because we started in Seattle doing these robberies

and we went all the way up to Snowmish County, right? And so what I didn't realize is when I played guilty right away is that the other county had not even filed on me. So by the time I got out, the detectives were filed on me for the robberies that were in King County. And so I went, they filed on me. like five weeks out, five months out, something like that. Like, I was only out for five months. And they sent me back for another set of robberies, right?

And during that time, I went on the run again. I ended up going out to Nebraska, like, whatever. You don't need AI agents, which may sound weird coming from service now, the leader in AI agents. The truth is, AI agents need you. Sure, they'll process, predict, even get work done autonomously. But they don't dream, read a room, rally a team,

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So I do another 13 months. I plea out those robberies down to theft charges, so I do less severe crime, but I still get 13 months. During that prison sentence, I get way more involved in prison politics. like I lose all my good time. Like I, you know, start putting in work and like go to a hole. Like whatever.

I'm like starting to like, this is going to be my life. You know, I'm going to like prison's my thing. You know, like, God. I just think that's the reality of it, right? Like I'm like, okay, I've been going to jail since I was 14. Like I've been to the juvenile five times on some bullshit. I'm not even 19 and I've been back to prison twice now. Are you thinking that there's no alternative?

Like is there that that's just like the idea that, hey, I might depart from this and go a separate way. Is that like you're saying that's close to you? My first intro, like my first bid, right? I saw all the other stuff and talked a lot of people and I was like, oh, there's like better ways to do things, right? Like, and I started hearing about other licks. And like, so by the time I went back to the second, but I didn't think I was coming back,

but I came back right away. So I was like, oh, okay, well, this is life. So like, how do I do this better so that I don't have to keep coming back every five months, right? Right. So that was like my mindset when I got out. So I get out the second time, and this is where we get into the fraud. So I was really fit.

I mean, every time I've been working out since the juvenile, and like, so every time I I'd get out of jail, the only jobs I could really get right away were like trainer or like gym jobs, like selling memberships or whatever. And it's like I get a free membership, so I don't got to pay for working out or whatever. So I'd always get a gym job. Me and my brother both. So I go, I'm working at this gym.

And this is like a little detour story. So while I was doing my time, one of my friends got robbed by a kid I know. And he wasn't really like in the game like us. Like he was like a drug user partier kind of friend. Like he was one of my skateboarding friends. Right. And one of my buddies that I sold dope with that was like in the game robbed him and beat him up real bad. I heard about it while I was down.

And so when I got out, I was like, well, I'm going to go fucking Danny up for that, right? So I'm at the gym and working, like, I was like, had my shit together. I wasn't like doing drugs or anything. I was drinking on the weekends, like being chill. Like, I'm going to get my life together, right? But I go and I hit up, I hit up the dude that beat up my friend. And I was like, hey, I'm back on. Like, you know, you want to come try the shit I got.

I'll, like, give you whatever, right? And so he meets up with me. and I beat his ass, right? And when I, I slept him in the road and I put him back in the car and I buckled him in because he's like passed out. And I opened his trunk and he had a mini 14 and a Mossburg 500 in a trunk, right? And so I, what's that? Assall rifle and a shotgun.

So I take that and I don't know what I'm going to do with it right, but I'm like, whatever, I'm going to sell these. Like that's freebie, you know. So I leave. I'm staying at my mom's because I just got out. I'm at the gym and I get a call for my mom and she's like there's assault rifles in my house

like you better come get these like mom don't touch my guns like she's like I'm gonna call your probation officer I'm like you better not you better not so I leave work I go get the guns I leave but now like my mom's gonna call the cops right so I was like I can't stay at my mom's like I got these

assault rifles so I hit one of my prison connects up and I went up and I sold the guns right got rid of the guns but at this point now I'm like okay, I'm backing the shit. Like, right. I got, so part of the deal for the guns, I got some dope. And he gave me some dope and money.

And so I just, like, started selling again or whatever. But now I'm staying in motels, like, because I don't got anywhere to stay. So I'm just like, cheap-o motels. And I'm walking around downtown Seattle, and this guy comes up and he's like, hey, man, you want to make $150? And I was like, I'm not new. So I'm like, no. Yeah, no, nobody's giving away $150.

I was like, for what? I'm like, I'm not doing no credit card bullshit. No, man, I'll give you cash. You know, guy, you do no cards. Like, no, I'm good, right? And so I leave. Then the next day, I'm down there, I see him again. And he's like, hey, you want to make $150 today?

And I was like, not really, but I'm curious. I'm like, what are you guys doing? You know? And he's like, oh, we're just, we're getting cell phones. I was like, okay, like with checks or like what, you know? Like, so like my buddy said, like, you know, go get the checkbook for the bank account. And then you just cash them as many as you can or whatever. And he said no.

not like that, but I didn't believe him, right? Like, but I got his information. I was like, no, dude, I'm good. Like, you know, I'll take your number though. Like, if I, you know, something comes up. Well, what did he tell you? He said they were going in and getting phones and that he would just need me to sign up for the account and then he would pay me for using like me to get the account.

And I was like, I don't want to do that. It sounds like just straight up like I'm going to go to jail in like a week or whatever after because of my name's on it, right? Yeah. So why can't get a burner phone? No, no, he wanted to, he was, they were like buying iPhones. Oh, okay. Okay. But I'm going to leave it like that for you because like that's where I was. Like I was like, it just doesn't make sense. Like what like, I don't understand the scam here.

Got it. But I took his number. A couple weeks go by. Me and my buddy, we're just, we're just robbing dope dealers on a street. Like, I hit him up. I'm not even doing drugs again at this point. But we just like, hey, you got a sack. And then as they said, yeah, I'd be like, okay, cool. Let me get a bag. And then we go in an alley and we just sleep them and take their shit. And then. sell that. That's what we were doing. Like, we were not... The term sleep them. He'd make him go nine-nine. I know. I understand. But we were not doing very well. This is like bottom of the barrel. Like, we were just like, we needed money to pay for our place to stay. And like, we're like trying to figure out what we're going to do. So we're short when we, I called a guy. I'm like, hey, man, what's up with his $150 bucks? And he's like, oh, I'll come pick you up right now. So he pulls up and he's in our Prius and he's got this chick, right? And he's like, you got an ID?

I was like, yeah, he's like, bring your ID, right? So I bring the ID and I get in the car. I'm like, look, man, like, I really don't want to sign up for or like do. And he's like, no, I'll go in the store with you. I was like, you're going to go to store with me? He's like, yeah, he's like, and we're going to use my cash. And I was like, what do I got to do? He's like, you just got to be there, bro.

Just put your name, like, open accounts. I was like, okay. So he takes me out to Bellevue, which is like fancy area up there. We go to the mall. we walk into the Apple store and we ask them to set up a new phone account, right? Because at the time, you can go into Apple. They got the iPhones all out and you can go, like, try them all out, right? And they have the different carriers.

Oh, you can sign up with this one. You could do it all in the store with Apple, like Sprint, AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon. It was all right there. And how it used to work, this is 2012, 2013, is like when you get a cell phone plan, they would run your credit and your credit didn't have to be fantastic like 550 right like whatever so as long as you didn't have like

a bankruptcy or some shit or they're approving you for a phone plan and how they used to do it is you would get they run your credit they say oh you're approved and the brand new phone like say that the iPhone 8 had just came out right if your credit was good you could get the brand new one for $200

down for that phone right and what you're doing is they're setting up the line and you're giving them a deposit it and then you pay it over time or whatever. So if you get approved... They're financing the phone for you. Now they finance the actual unit, the phone itself. So you can't do this scam, I'm telling you.

But back then, you were financing the plan. Okay. Like, it was not attached to the phone. Like, so they would give you three lines at Sprint, three lines at AT&T. You could get five lines at Verizon. But you couldn't get those all at one time, especially if it's just you and your buddy walking in, right? So what they had me do is they signed up for two lines.

lines at Sprint, I got approved. I was like, no way. Like, I'd never gotten anything on credit before. Like, I didn't even know how credit worked, right? And they approved me. They gave me two phones. Dude pays for the phones. I set it up, like, in my account. I'm like, it's like our account, right? Like me and my buddy are getting a phone plan. That's what we tell them, right? And so we set up the two phones. He pays them the cash for the phones, 400 bucks for the two iPhones, right? And then like, whatever, the taxes. So then we leave the store and we go to Best Buy. And then you go to Best Buy, who also, has the phones and you can add and we just tell them hey we're going to add a line to the sprint plan he's like okay what's your phone number i give him the phone number i just got the guy is doing most

of this at the time right because this is my first time doing it yeah so he's doing most of the talking right so we add a line to my plan he gives him another 200 bucks because i got approved he has the line now the dude has three phones for 600 bucks right he gives me 150 dollars for my time and he gets to keep the phones he paid for phones right those phones when an actually phone first comes out, even today, it's like 12, 14, 1,600 bucks, right? Like, that's its retail price. Right. And then, like, now you can still finance it, 50, 60 bucks a month, whatever, right?

What they did was they were taking the phones and then they were, so you call it in and like a burner phone, like you can go get a Verizon flip phone or whatever, right? They transfer the lines I just started onto the burner phone. And then what, they never even opened the other iPhone. Now you have a brand new, not connected to account iPhone, and that you just bought for $200, and you can sell that for $1,600 or more because there's a shortage, like, because it just came out. Right. So now he just-250 because he gave you $50,000, $150,000.

He just walked out $4,500 in profit, right? You know, for those three phones, right? Like, he paid me $150, so, like, he's leaving $3, $3,200 in profit, like, if he sells those three phones, right? Right. But so for me, I was with him maybe an hour and a half, right? It was like the easiest $150 I made. I was like, we didn't have to rob no one. I didn't.

To me, I was like, I didn't do anything illegal. We literally purchased a phone with cash. Right. I was like, this is sick. I was like, can I do more? He's like, you got, you ever had a phone play on it? I was like, no, he's like, let's try the other ones. Verizon didn't approve me.

AT&T did. I got another two phones for AT&T that gave me another hundred bucks, right? And I was like, I was like, bet. This is, this is tight. Like, I was like, I didn't have to hit no one. I didn't, you know? Like, I was like, this is easy. Nobody chased me.

Yeah, this was fantastic. I was like, how do I make more money with you, bro? And he's like, you got, you know people? I was like, oh, I know people. Like, he's like, everyone you bring me, I'll get you 50 bucks if they get approved. I was like, for sure. So I went and me and my buddy, we got a minivan and then I just like hit up all the crackheads I knew, right? I was like, anyone I sold drugs to.

I was like, hey, man, you guys got an ID? Like, come with me, right? I started bringing this guy like five, six people a day, right? And it's like, he's paying me 50 bucks a person. I'm not doing shit. I'm literally, you're a crackhead shuttle. Like that's what I'm doing. I'm going between like the east side and go to the north end.

I just rounding people up and bringing them to him. And this dude, he loved me. He's like, this is the best thing that's ever happened. He didn't know. But like, so the more I did this with him, like the more, they were there probably for like, I don't know, like a month, two months we were doing this like around Seattle. And he got more comfy with me because I've seen him every day, right? And this guy had like 20, 30 racks on him at like all times, right? Because he's buying all these phones.

He doesn't have just have me bringing him people. It's like other people bringing in people. So I started seeing what was happening. I was like, this dude's like pyramid skimming, like this. Everyone who does it, he tells them the same shit. I'll give you this much. I'll give you this much. And I was like, well, you can't tell all those guys I just brought you that you giving

50 bucks. He's like, well, I'll give you 100 for, you know, and then you give them 50. I was like, perfect, right? And so we started doing that. The whole time, and I'm like, well, I'm going to rob this dude, right? I was like, I've never seen 20, 30 racks in one spot. Like, so I was like, it's just him and his girl in a pre. I was like, he's super target, dude.

Like, right? But what happened over that two months is like, I was like, I don't know, dude, this is like a pretty steady flow of money. Like, why would I fuck with this guy? You know, right? Until he said he was going to leave. And he's like, oh, we're going to go to Denver. I was like, I got robbed this guy like this week, right? I was a watered over.

I feel bad for this guy. I mean, you know. I really like this dude. No, like, I do. This guy and the guy that I ended up. working for for like the next like year and a half like that I credit with a lot of like my personal growth as a person honestly you know like I learned a lot of life lessons from but at the time I was like I'm a good guy that I'm gonna have to rob you for that yeah I was gonna sit time and just

leave him I was like dude we can just take his priest too but uh he hit me up I was like and he was like hey man you don't go to Denver I was like no like how am I gonna go to Denver he's like I'll buy a plane ticket I never left Seattle right at this point I was like I'm To me, as like a 19-year-old kid, I was like, that's fake, right? So I was like, I was like, I'll believe that. And so he hit me up later that night. And he's like, hey, grab your bags, like, meet me at CTAC. I was like, for real, he's like, and he sent me a picture of the plane tickets.

I was like, no way. So I packed my shit, right? And I'd go and I told my partner at the time, who I was going to rob him with and I was doing all this stuff, right? He didn't have an ID, right? He just got out the feds. like he was, uh, he didn't have a shit like at all together, right? I was like, I'll go out there, see if this shit's legit.

If it's legit, I'll send you out, you know, like I'll send you some money to come out, right? Right. And he's like, cool. So I go get on a plane. I go to Denver. And I'm like, well, what? They bought me a hotel room, right? And then I don't have a car, nothing, right?

Like, I just got my clothes. And what they would do is they'd pick me up every morning from the hotel. They'd go drop me off in some random hood. And they'd be like, just call us as soon as you got four or five people ready, right? And so like what I would do is I'd go through the hood. Hey, you got 150, you want to make 150 bucks. You got an ID like, you know, and like, that's what I'd do. And I had been selling gym memberships and like hustling like my whole life.

So like it was, it was easy. Well, it's crazy to me looking back on this, though, is like how many people gave me their IDs. Like. Yeah, yeah. But just like with me, the pitch was, you're going to come with me. I don't need to hold your ID or nothing. You're going to do all the talking. I'm literally just going to hand you cash.

Like. Yeah. So and they're like, well, they're like, well, it's like, what's not me from running from. I was like, you can, but there's a guy in the car over there and we're going to get you. You know, like, why would you do that when I'll just hand you 150? Yeah, you're about to make 150 bucks. Yes, which is a super easy sell for crackheads, like, or like people who are using, you know? Not everybody was a drug addict. Like, as we did this, um, dude, I ran like, I did for a lot of,

like, moms and like just random people just like hard up, you know, like, um, it was a super easy fast, like hour, hour of your time, you know, like I'd buy him lunch or whatever, you know? But Denver, I smacked. Like, that's where I got really good at it. Like, I think one day I got 36 phones, like, which is a lot of money for, you know. So I'm making $100 a person, you know, so 36, like, $8,900 a day. No problem. I have, like, an unlimited drug habit.

Yeah. It's, at the end of the day, they just pay me out. I keep track, right? Like, and they just, whatever. I love life. Right. I'm buying clothes. Like, I flew out one of my girlfriends.

from Seattle. I was like, hey, you should come out here. I'm like killing it. Are you figuring out like where, what their connect is? Okay, I was going to say, like, how do I move up in this scheme? That's always where my brain goes, right? So like the same thing. I was like, hey, man. So when I started, when I started doing it, so we, we have different, we have different levels. So like, we called the people that like me, like rounding everyone out, we were like recruiters, you know, and we had the managers or whatever. That was like the guy with the money that sat in the car that sent me or the girl in with whoever to like make the story more believable right because oftentimes like me and like some 45 year old black lady doesn't

make sense why are we starting a phone plan together so we need to have like a different type of person to go into the store um and i'm paying attention to all this but after i start doing like pulling like 20 30 phone days you know i'm like hey man i want i want more money you know i want like 200 account I know how much money you guys are making. Like I want, you know, more than that. So they're like, yeah, no problem, right? It's so funny how I was, I'm sorry. It's just so funny how you, I talk to people and I always wonder, like, did you ever ask

for more money? And most people are like, no, I never been occurred to me. Oh, me and these guys got into it a couple of times. Like one time I left, I left dude. It's hard to find somebody reliable. Yeah. I mean, they didn't know. You're not reliable, by the way.

You were going to rob them. But they don't know that. They think we've got a solid. guy here that shows up every day. He's, he's personalable. He's, he's able to contact or talk to people. He can go up. He can hustle. He's a good, like, that's, that guy's worth his weight in gold. I was reliable as, I didn't end up rob it. Oh, wow. Oh, even better. Even better. Okay. No, like, me and ever like tight. Like, because you know, people, but like, it was. Right. But I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like, in that industry, people are good for four days.

And they did, they get enough money to get a bunch of dope. And then they're gone for a week. Never hear from again. Right. So, I mean, uh, and. And. We built on it. So, and their model was, and I learned this from, like, being with them for a long time, there was like two big groups at the time doing it. We called them to Detroit Boys. That was the other group. And there was our guys, and they were from L.A., right?

And they, both these groups, sometimes we'd be in the same city together at the same time. But we would hit a city for like three, four months until the store is caught on. Yeah. You know, once the store is caught on, did my face start popping up in like, you know, they had flyers out, you know, like they couldn't do anything because it's not illegal. So what we were doing is contract fraud, but we were, it's identity theft, but we're using the actual person. Yeah, the person's there.

And they're not complaining. No, not at all. And so in contract fraud is a civil, like it's a civil matter. It's not, it's not like a misdemeanor or anything, right? So what's happening is I'm signing up for a phone plan and I'm just not making the bill. They're going to send me a collections. Yeah. That's it.

Right. And then because someone has like. seven to eight phones that just popped up on their credit report, they can claim fraud and they'll get it thrown out, right? Most of these people, because they're struggling, they don't follow through with that, so they get a little, you know, they might have that $15,800 bill, like, whatever. But if they ever did clean up their act, it's a couple of writing a couple of letters to get it taken off.

I got mine taken off. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and a lot of people did. Like, the main people that are losing is like Apple, Verizon, AT&T, whatever. And like, I don't feel bad for them. I know that just breaks my heart. me. I got a little I just got lost. I got an apple tattoo over here.

No, you do not. Yeah, I did. Bro, I made, I did the math. So, like, I was pulling at my peak, like after the first two, three months, like 20, 40 grand a month, you know, just, and this is me not running it yet. This is just dude paying me, right? Right. And at this time, like I said, I'm 1920. Like, it was, that was like the best money I'd ever had, you know? So I got Apple tattoo. I was wearing true religion jeans those are super cool at the time right I go in there and be like I need seven pairs of those like every city we go to I would just buy new wardrobe right I was like hoodridge for the first time of my life right um yeah I was gonna say

how is the drug habit is it out of hand of no I was gonna say it's I was gonna say I'm controllable yeah and uh the dude that I was working for the main guy uh he he he was joke because like these guys were not drug addicts like the that were doing it like that like had this scam going Um, there's a lot of us working for them that were, but like they were not. They were just criminals, you know, like, hustlers. And they're like me. Like I'm, this is just, this is, this is, this is the field I've gone into.

Yes. You know. Yes. Exactly. Um, which I had never ran into one of those before. Like that was my first, I, my crime and had always been drug fueled, you know, like to feed my habit. Like I've been a, I was an addict since I was a kid, you know.

Um, so I like really idolized these guys. You know, I was like, these guys are like, doing it, you know, but they thought I was funny. They were like, dude, I don't care how much clear. Like, if you bring 30 phones a day, he's like, I'll buy you the dope. Like, he's like, right? That's horrible.

So to me, I would have been thinking of myself, if I can clean this guy up, we can make a ton of money together. He sent me to treatment twice. Did he? He paid for it, and he bailed me out a lot of times. He's a good guy. Yeah. They're both more good guys.

Yeah. It was just funny because they're like, Ray's a mess, but he can work, bro. You know, right? and I don't yeah I don't know what it is like that for whatever reason for so for me too I still have like my connects in the joint back in Washington and like to them like I was like bro like we don't got to do what we were doing like I was like I got this new look lick I'll put you on when you get out right so like as soon as my guys were getting out I was flying back to Seattle and I was like teaching them how to do it and like set it up most of them were dump trucks and like literally could not figure it out and like I'm like oh dude what do I just like I was like, you don't got to rob anyone, bro. Like, stop doing it. I grabbed the phones and ran out.

I got three phones in my hand right now. Yeah, I was like, you idiot, dude. Like, they couldn't keep it together, right? Or, like, they would get the phones and they wouldn't mail them to me because these guys had FedEx accounts and everything. And because, like, they'd have different groups. And so I finally got to a point where they would send me out by myself. Like, so I had another couple people, like, this dude underneath me, I picked up in

Denver. He started traveling with me. I gave everybody. if they seemed reliable or like they had a little hunger to them, you know, they gave them the same pitch they gave me. You know, I was like, hey, we're going to go to a city and like, you know, we're going to go out to Boston next week. Like, do you want to go?

Like, we can just keep doing this here. You know, same thing. I had two guys throughout this whole time, like the year, 18 months I was doing it that like stuck it out, you know, because like you're saying, it's like super. I know. Yeah. But they started sending me to like cities by myself, right? At this point, I kind of see like the whole structure.

Like, I know what's going on. So they have their people doing everything I've just been describing. And then the main guy, we would either mail him. If he wasn't in the same city as us, we would go to FedEx every night and just like you say, hey, put this on the account and we send him all the phones. He was, he had a buyer in Vegas from wherever that was just like buying 300, 400, 400 phones at a time, right? And so he was just getting them from everywhere and then selling them to one single buyer.

Now, is this, do you think, I mean, just, I don't know that you know this, but is this guy taking these phones and just reselling them on like the internet or is he actually? I think so, yeah. Oh, okay. I was going to say because like some of these things, like you can, there will be oversee buyers. It is an oversee buyer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I didn't know that.

The only reason I say I met a guy. It's so funny too, because I, this guy I'll talk to every six months to a year since I got out of prison. I'm always like, bro, you have to come on the. the podcast and tell your story. I know. I know he's in Miami selling cars. He's making a ton of money. Yeah.

Because I remember when he explained to me why he was in prison and he kept when he was telling me say this, he kept telling me the story. You know how the iPhone? You know on the iPhone? You know, and I said, stop saying, you know how on the iPhone. I said, I've never touched an iPhone. The iPhone wasn't in existence when I came to prison. He was like, bro, how long you've been here?

And his whole thing was, it was iPhones. And they were going and getting corporate account. They were actually opening corporate accounts. And then they got at the point where they could get like 10 or 12, like eight phones or something. It was outrageous how many phones. So our guy, we got to a point. Okay. Like we were maybe like a year in.

And he had someone that had worked in Verizon and this guy worked in Verizon. And then all of a sudden this guy was in his car with him all the time. And as soon as I would open an account, I would call him. I'd give him the number that Verizon employee would expand the account, like say it didn't have lines on it and we can hit that same person for like 15 20 phones like before it would the system would just lock them out right so like it got like way more complex like the longer we were doing it okay um it's it was a cool lick like it was a really really good so at that point like there's probably definitely prosecutable things yeah yeah well I know he went to prison he got him for like a million

and a half or something totally like this is insane it was outrageous yeah yeah and this guy was this way yeah anyway so um but you go ahead you were saying you were flying back and forth with the guys. Yeah. And I mean, that there's no, that's a dead end story. There's just like my buddies I tried to put on. No one could. Right.

But you said then they got the point where they would grab you and they would fly you alone. Yes. So I, they would just send me out, right? They're like, do you want to go to Boston or do you want to go to Montgomery or do you want to go to like we're. This is like a corporate job. It is. You're staying at the, you're staying at the Hilton. We've got you here for two weeks.

We got you here for a month. Dude, you book us rooms. And like we, I had a. flyer miles and I so what we started doing is so because I was really it was funny he like praised me for my organization because like I would I got to a point where like I had enough of my own money that I was just floating him right and like I would just tell him at the end of the day I was like hey you need to you know drop this is when you could still walk into a bank and drop like eight nine grand into somebody's account and no questions asked right like you can't do that

shit anymore but so I would just tell him like I need 7800 bucks I ran like this many people or like I got five guys in my hotel room ready to run at 8 a.m. tomorrow morning. Like this is how much money I need to move those phones, whatever, right? So that's what I was doing. And what I did is I opened up a credit card and I opened up two bank accounts. And then I started collecting the points. I was like I just swiping my own credit card for shit. Like the gas, the people's lunches, everything, right?

So I'm building up points. This dude would just drop the money into my account. I pay the bill off. I was like actually starting to build like a legitimate name. I mean, like, I always had like 13, 14 grand in my account at all times. So like, it was, it was nice. Like, it was my first time with that. But I know now, like, they have a buyer for overseas.

So I know that's part of the piece. I know how to do the whole getting them the contracts and everything. I didn't figure out that they were swapping the IMEI numbers on the phones to the burner phones. Like, I didn't find that out for a while. I mentioned that in the beginning, but I didn't. Yeah. You didn't understand how the logistics of it. I didn't understand how to get the phone off of the account, right?

Because like if I, if it's attached to the phone number, it's useless to you. I can't sell it to you, right? I need it off. I didn't figure that out for a while. I forget how I figured that out.

Maybe I overheard one of them talking about it or something like that. But once I had that piece, I went and tried it, right? I went to Walmart. I went and bought the flip phone and I swapped it on one of them, right? And I was like, no way, right?

And at that point, I hit dude up. The guys where I was like, I was like, look, bro, I need. like 800 in account. I don't literally even need you anymore.

I was like, I know how to do all this shit. And like, I'm like your best recruiter. I was like, and so he gave it to me, right? He's like, all right. And then that's when they started sending me by myself, right? Well, I'm in Chicago. That is a problem with hiring a smart employee. So you want them just dumb enough to pull off their job, but not smart enough to figure

out the system. Yeah. Yeah. It was a and then so the guy that originally recruited me back in Seattle, now I'm on his level, right? Like, so it's me and him. So now I'm basically the money guy in the car now, right? So like I got Mike, two guys I brought from Denver with me, right? And they've been with me like the whole time, right?

And so they're the new me's. Like just I don't do really any recruiting anymore. All I do is I manage the accounts. I make sure the phones get to the FedEx and like all, you know, the like organized part of it. me i forget what the beef was over me and the guy that recruited me we were in chicago and uh we got we got into an argument i know oh it's because i had the car and everything right like so i had the car and all those like people and the infrastructure and everything and me and dude got an argument and i was like well dude literally f*** you like i kicked them out of the side on the freeway right

like we got an argument about something i was like i don't need you bro like and so i left him on the highway in chicago and i called the main guy i was like i'm not dealing with all this like drama bullshit like I don't need him telling me what to do blah blah blah I'm like I am dude like we're this on the same you know I just I don't know it's probably high and just like disrespect to me yeah and so I was like you know testing the water so I quit I was like dude you like I took all the resources I had at the time right and I was like I'm gonna go do my own thing so I didn't the one thing I didn't have I knew how to do the accounts I knew how to get the phones I didn't have a buyer right that's a big piece yeah

But I had enough money. I just kept running the things I had set up. So I had already a couple, like I had a system down. So every day, I started every day with like three or four guys ready to go, right? And if I'd burnt that out, I would go to a new hood and do it over there. Like, so sometimes we'd have the crackhead sleep with us in the hotel rooms. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night or all of the above.

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Like, please don't go anywhere. Don't lose your IDs. And so I started collecting phones. And so now I got a bunch of phones in Chicago and I don't have a buyer. But I started, I looked on Craigslist at the time. And that's like Craigslist was still viable to do things. there's people I'll buy any iPhone right I'll buy any phone for like and there's ads like any phone any working phone 180 bucks these guys are doing similar things to what we're doing they're reselling

them but they're just doing it without the like illegal part right they don't have that figured out yeah well I don't know if they didn't have figured out they just didn't want to do it but I started hitting them up I'm like hey man what if I can get you like 20 phones a day like right you know like and it took me a while but I found a guy and he wouldn't give me he wouldn't give me the like 800 a phone but he gave me like seven hundred or something like I knew I knew my guy was getting like a couple hundred per phone right and it was like not as much but it was enough to make what I was doing legitimate right right so I started doing that right after about a month of that dude the main guy hits me back up and he's like look man like what do we

got to do like I was like well I want you to buy me a car I was like I want four guys to work for me Like, I want, I was like, I don't want to deal with boy anymore. Like, you know, like, he was still cool, but I was like, I don't want to deal with any of that, like, hierarchical drama. Like, so, like, I want, like, totally leeway. And I was like, and I want, like, I just gave him all these crazy demands. And he gave him to me. Like, cool. And so after a month, month and a half, he's starting to realize it's, it's so how difficult it is to probably replace you.

Right. That's something like that, right? Like, and so I go back to work for him. and we go where I forget after Chicago where we went I know we went all over Connecticut and Rhode Island and Boston I got arrested in Boston for this actually I pulled up to the Apple store and I had four guys in a car and I was about to go in and the detective swarmed us right they got everybody how did they get on to you I don't know like this but at this point like I'd had enough interactions with like

like store people or like potential police that I knew that wasn't illegal right like so I was like I'm not tripping and I'm really high and I'm super cocky right like I'm like I've already beat this situation a bunch of times right so they're like where's all the phones I'm like they're in the trunk I got all receipts right there in the glove box you know I was like I paid for those those are my phones yeah and they're like we know this is a scam I was like it's not though so like are you going to cuff me up front or you can cuff me up back you know and then the Boston detective was not he didn't think that was funny and he like slam me on the ground he's like oh you think you're funny from

seattle is how we do shit out here my dumb ass i have some suboxins which is a uh it helps you kick brown it's i always kept that or methadone like in case i couldn't get brown where i was going right so i had some of those in my pocket but i didn't remember that when i was mouthed off to the and so i they take me down to the station i'm not even tripping so i'm like i'm just going bail out like whatever right um i get down there they charge me with the possession and and they charge me, uh, I don't know,

with a theft or something like that for the phones or, right? But I'm like, I'm going to beat that. It's not even an issue because I have receipts. Uh, so I bail out. I bail out on five grand.

I leave. They sent, uh, they give me a court date, right? And I didn't know this, but Boston at the time, I mean,

it's a commonwealth state. So the laws are a little different. Um, where in Washington, if you bail out, like, you're on bail. Like you're,

unless you fuck up or something, right? So I go to my court date. And I'm not sweating it. And the judge is like, Mr. Haug, he's like,

I'm reading the police report. And he's like, I can't see anywhere in here where you committed a crime, but it looks like you're taking advantage of homeless people. He's like, we don't take too kindly to that here.

So I'm going to increase your bail until we figure out something we can charge you with. And I was, that's literally not legal. That doesn't make sense at all. No, they raised it. So they raised it 10 grand,

right? And so I called main guy. And I was like, hey, bro, like, they just raised my bail. I need you bail me out again. So they bailed me out.

And I just left. Like, I took a... Yeah, that's not, that's not reasonable. Like, you have to have a charge.

I thought so. Yeah. My understanding of the law is I have to have broken it right to be placed into the system. Yes. It was... Apparently it's different there. Wow.

Yeah, that was my first spirit, but I just left. And like, nothing ever came of it. Like, I think after, I don't know,

it's been like 10, 12 years. But you also haven't been back to Boston. Cut that, bro. Right. No. Right. No, it doesn't even show up. I did a, because I'm starting to expunge my record right now.

And I did a federal background check, and it doesn't even come up. So I think I'm good. Because they probably just never found anything. And you absconded. They thought, what are we doing, chasing this guy down for something that's going to beat? Well, it's funny. I was in county, and this was at the time in Boston, you probably are not aware, but, like, I thought it was really funny. The crime, the drug lab there, they had just gotten in trouble.

Oh, yeah. No, I watched the whole documentary on it. They were letting them all out when I was there. So I was going in and there was like 8,000 inmates getting released and resentenced and they were stoked because like they had to throw out all the drug things because the lady A didn't have a degree and was lying. Have you seen that the documentary on it? No, I didn't know they made one. Oh my God, bro. Yeah.

She's a Matt. What happened? So there was a chick in the crime lab who started using she was using drugs. She was doing powder. Right. Yeah. But it expanded. If it's the right.

If it's the same documentary. that I saw, it got to a point where she started realizing, like, she was hooked on drugs. She's not making enough money. Swapping them out. And so she's going, and they're sending her, you know, like powder to test. So she's like, you know, yes, it's powder. And then she's replacing it with some other. But now she's got a little thing of powder.

She can keep the, then it turns into, oh, then she goes at one point, she was, she now has unlimited access and she's replacing the drugs, right? And then she starts, she goes, and they had like liquid, I don't know what the liquid is. It was a drug, though. And she's literally taking the liquid and because you have to mix it. You have to compare the two, right? So they have access to the real pharmaceutical grade drugs. Yeah.

So she's now using this. It's a full bottle. And over the course of. Like the formaldehyde? No, this is like a, let's say it's like liquid, I don't know, Clear. Liquid. It's something. Brown, but whatever. Because she's going from brown, from like clear to brown and to, to she's using up everything in there. It's crazy you know about this. Like no one ever knows. And she's like pouring water in, but it's separated. She gets to a point where this thing is drained completely. Like now we have to order more. We don't even have enough to use for the testing. So she's faking the test. She's at the point where she can't test stuff fast enough because she's also hooked on drugs. So she starts just faking the test. Yeah. Oh, he got caught.

They're saying they think it's powder. Yeah, it's powder. Like she just, and she didn't know what's real, what's not real, what she's faked, what she hasn't faked. And eventually, something happens. She's changing report. She's doing all. And somebody starts to figure out something's not right. Like, like some of these people are, it turns out that their lawyers are also testing.

And you said this was powder. And this is not. powder. This is, this is, this is, you know, baby powder.

What, you know, like, the crime lab said this is what? Real, well, we got a problem.

And then they start sending at samples that's bullshit. And she said, yeah, oh, yeah, that's clear. Yeah,

yeah, that's this. Oh, yeah, that kind of thing. So it unravels, and they eventually come in and they grab her, and when they grab her, she just,

but yeah, it's, they threw out years of cases. Yeah, it is like 8,000. Just, and they just let them all out of prison?

They had to. They had to resentence them or they had to dismiss them because they were, it was not a missable. At the very least, it's, it's my case is now appealable. And if I have, now I can go, now I know you don't have the drugs anymore. It's been four years or two years. So I can appeal it. I get a new trial. I'm going to go to trial.

You have no evidence. And I'm going to be able to to bring in the fact that you had this woman faking test for the past four years. They don't know which ones were real, which ones weren't because she wasn't doing all of them. but like they can't prove it. They can't prove that. They don't know. And her whole thing was she was trying to say towards the end,

she was trying to say, look, most of them were, it doesn't matter most of them. Which ones? You don't know. But yeah, it's great. And that gives you a bunch of people to go buy phones. No, no. He's just saying,

I was just stoked for the guys that were getting out. And I was like watching them all leave. And I was like, that's wild, man. Good for you guys, you know. Yeah, I thought you're saying that you had a bunch of people that were ready to No. Oh, no. Yeah.

There was no shortage. There was no shortage of people ready to do the phone scan. Like, it was wild. Oh, listen, when I was surveying homeless people, there was, you know, there was no, the only, my only option, my only problem with surveying homeless people was that I needed to find a Caucasian, like a 35-year-old, in his 30s, Caucasian guy. So that's a little bit hard to find. They're out there for sure, but it takes a little bit more time to find that guy.

That was it. But none of them were like, I'm not interested. I'm giving them 20 bucks. And what I found, I mean, I had an extensive experience with this now is like most homeless people that do not have their credit off. Like they literally never never done anything with it. Like that was. Keep on borrowing millions of dollars in their names.

Yeah. So I would pull their credit and they would have, they just have no credit. Or maybe they have a medical bill from five years ago. That's it. Is it affecting them anymore? Yeah. You know, not enough. And yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Or they'd have driver's licenses. Or maybe they'd have an expired driver's license. But I can easily get their. driver's license back. Yeah, they're viable. Unfortunately, I don't know. I don't say.

It's probably not. I probably shouldn't say, I don't know, you know, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were ideal candidates for fraud. Yeah, because they don't care. Like, they, they don't care. With the 20 bucks. Yeah. And they, they can, they can do nothing with their credit. That, that's how they got me.

Like, at the time, I needed the 150. I'd never done anything with my credit. didn't know how to do anything with my credit. If you could be ruined right now, it wouldn't affect me one way or the other. I don't have a job. I can't apply for anything. I can't prove anything. I didn't have to commit a robbery.

This is cool. Yeah, wreck my credit. Right. Right. Forchax. I don't care. Have you written a book? No.

I mean, people have asked if I was going to write a book. I hear that a lot. I don't know. Like, and we haven't got to this point in a story, but like my post-prison experience is got me a lot of media attention and like, you know, stuff like that. So like it feels like I probably could. Yeah. Well, I mean, it doesn't anybody can write it, but you don't have to be, you know, commercially

successful for it. You can still write it and put it up there just because when people see a podcast or something, they might say, oh, shit, you know, let me read this whole thing. Or let me, let me, let me check this out. And you could also do an audible. You know, on my book sales, I make as much on audible as I do on book sales, sometimes more. I was, yeah.

And you can option the rights to the book. You can also option your life rights attached to the book. So you may not be interested in doing something with it, but you don't know what some Hollywood producer might, you know, you might not think of it because you don't, you know, you're a fishing in water. You don't realize you're surrounded by the water. You know what I'm saying?

This is just your life so you don't understand how unique it is. But, I mean, keep in mind, we hear. four stories, five stories every single week for going on four years. And I told you there's the only other person I've ever met. One other person that told the story you have, you know, you've got. And yours is actually, I don't think this guy is as sympathetic, although punching the old lady as it doesn't help. But, you know, you have at least like the guy, the other guy's name is,

his name's Dume. Like, I don't think Dume had a reason that he got into this. Dumas just wanted money. Right. It was just greed. You know, you had a viable, maybe not, most people wouldn't think it's probably viable, but at least you can say, hey, you're a sympathetic victim, right? So you're a sympathetic victim who ultimately was led into this crime.

So that, you know, if you write, you realize, like, if it's like me, you know, well, let's say not me, but let's say in general, somebody who already. already had all the advantages and had a great upbringing and suddenly just decides to start committing a Ponzi scheme. It's not really a sympathetic victim. Their heart doesn't go out to this guy. You've got a horrific upbringing that led you along this path. So you actually have an and it's a unique story. So it's not just that because that most criminals have that. But and it's unique. It's not like, hey, and I started selling drugs. Okay, well, that's a diamond does. And those stories are everywhere. But this is actually super unique. But anyway, so sorry, I got off track.

Do you want to? That's, it's funny because we were, I went to Philly, uh, shortly after Boston. Okay. And Philly for me was like,

uh, my turning point in the hustle like, okay, this like, I'm on my own now. I have my own people. Like I have this like my money in flow pretty dialed. I was keeping very detailed logs.

Like every, every person, every meal I kept like, I had like, like a Google. sheet going for like all my expenses like I knew how much it cost me to do every account right and that's what the main guy liked like so I could just give him that and he's like dude I don't even keep records this good he's like I'm just gonna trust your numbers and like so I never I never

him like I just I gave him the real numbers but he like never checked I was just like hey you owe me 27 racks you know like or you owe me 30 whatever here's right and you just send it to me um so I I'm in Philly and I I have this new driver this guy working for me also a really solid dude like I never I don't know what's up but he was a he did the thing for me and I'm like I was like he wanted to make more money and like I had him driving for me and why Philly was significant to me is because like the guy I had driving for me was the first person that wasn't like strung out right you know like he was like normal reliable had a house and a baby and like you know and so he started asking me a lot of questions that like you're

asking me now or like other people were and they were like oh you're going to write a book, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, this is crazy. Like, he called me Money Man Ray, you know? Like, he realized that in the moment, he realized this is unique. This is crazy, right? And, uh, and so what we, but my, at the time, I was like, you know, maybe we should start like, documenting some of this, you know?

I was like, I know I don't want to like, I was like, I'm like, maybe this is federal because we're going to different states. I was like, I don't want to be like, too. I was like, we'll talk to a lawyer first, though, but we should for sure look into this, right? Because I, like, in prison you watch TV. Like, I'd seen MTV. Like, they have, like, those weird, like, people. They, like, literally be, like, driving around with people selling drugs and shit, you know?

I was like, maybe MTV would be into this, right? Like, like, like, true, like real life. Like. Yeah, true crime. Yeah, whatever, right? And so what we did, we had hella iPhones. So we bought a bunch of phone mounts for the car. And we just put four or five phones on record all the time in the car.

It was just hilarious because, like, we're getting drug addicts in the car, you know? And they're like, what the fuck is? We're like, don't worry about it, bro. Documenting my fraud, yeah. And it was really, because, like, some of the stories, like, dude, sometimes the crackheads would run off with the money. We'd have to go, it was funny, dude. Like, I chased the guy with a baton one time, like, through Jersey, like, Camden.

Like, so some of the stuff was comical, and we wanted to have it. And, like, the only way to guarantee that we'd get it is that we just record it all the time, right? Right. And then I was, so we did it for a while. But then I started getting, like, really paranoid. though. I was like, I'm probably just documenting hundreds

of felonies. Like I was like, this is stupid. But we did think about it. And we were gonna, at first, I was like, I need to talk to a lawyer before we go pitch it. I was like, but I wanted to have like some like edited videos

and like a little short to give to MTV to be like, is this something you're interested in and then like throw it, you know? Because I was like how are they like cooking clear and not going to prison? I was there's got to be a way. around it for entertainment value, right? Like, nothing ever came of it, but we did think about it and we were recording crackheads for like two months.

It was, it was fucking hilarious. What happened to that guy? So I offered him to come with me when we went to the next city, but he couldn't family, you know, and, but I don't know what happened to him. I hope he's doing good. Like, he was living in the hood in Kensington in Philly when it's not a great place out there. He was on the methadone clinic when I got there. So, like, he had an addicted past, you know, but he, like, got out of it.

So I hope he's doing great. But, like, because he ended up letting us, me and James, me and dude from Denver, he let us move in with him. So, like, we were staying there instead of, like, at hotels and stuff. Like, so he was like my friend, you know, like, it was a good deal. I kept hitting him up a couple times, like, in other cities. I'm like, are you sure you don't want to come out? You sure you don't want to come out, you know, because like, like you said earlier is like, reliable people are hard. And like that dude, I could leave him with my car.

I could leave him with money. He never, you never did anything, right? Like, he was there every day to work. He just wanted, he wanted a job, you know? My buddy, Zach used to would run crews of guys to cash checks and stuff. And he said that was a big problem. He's like some guy was going to make, he, they were going to cash $90,000 in checks in a day. Send him in the first place.

The guy walks out with, you know, 20. $5,500 or, will I say, three grand, walks out, like, if he could just hold it together for another three hours, he would have 30 grand, but he's got $3,000 in his hand now. And he'd see Zach, and he'd be like, and just start running. He's like, the fuck that's going on? Like, this guy's about to make $30,000. Yep. And he just took off with three.

They just can't, they can't. You can't conceptualize it. Like, it was like me before I had gone to Denver, like, the reality that people could, like, keep a scam together and organize it and like to a point where they could fly people was not conceivable because I'd never seen it just because like I was it is outside of my world experience you know um so like that me taking that chance like really opened my eyes to like a lot of things right um and I remember and uh so by the time I we left Philly and uh I come back I go back to LA um or not back to LA is the first time I've been to L.A.

But that's like home base for these guys, right? And so I move into this loft apartment downtown. It's like $3,000 a month. We got a pool on the roof, like, you know, huge deck, like, which is hilarious. Because in the building we were in, there's like a B-level actor above us and like a day. We were like in L.A., you know? And there's like five of us, you know, boozy crackheads. Right.

Beneath them doing this fraud shit. Like, you like, in a day. a nice fucking spot, you know? Like, that was always hilarious to me. Um, and this is like, L.A. was not a good time. Like, I made a lot of money, but this is like, my drug addiction kind of got the better of me. Like, by the time I had gotten to L.A., I was, like, significantly used to large amounts of money coming in. Like, I had the, the hustle down. Like, it was established. But with that, the whole time, every city I was going to, like, I was more dope, more dope, more dope and I like had unlimited money so I had unlimited habit and uh going from the east coast

I was over on the east coast for like six nine months where I was doing like powder brown and I'm coming back to the west coast where they have like the tar brown not as strong uh my my habit was unreal like um so before where I could like manage it like it like it just like some days I would just not work you know like I'd just be like getting high the whole time and uh the dude I was working for, he, he was noticing this, right? And it's not like I owed him money or anything. He's just like,

yo, dude, like, what do we got to do? Yeah. And I was like, well, I, I,

like, I need to go treatment. Like, I got like a problem, problem, you know, like, and he's like,

what's that? Like, he didn't know anything really about it. I was like, well, I need to go, like, get detox.

I was like, this shit's like real gnarly, right? So we found a treatment center out in Long Beach and, and he sent me out to treatment there, right? I detox. I'm like nine, 11 days into detoxing. And I just like, I left. I was like, I'm not going to do it. You know, I was like, so I hop on a bus. He had my car, you know,

kept my apartment, whatever, right? So I hop on a bus. I go back downtown, get high, hit him up. I'm like, hey, I'm ready to go to work. And he's like, aren't you supposed to be in treatment right now? Right. I was like, I just want to work, bro. And he's like, okay, dude, I'll send, on some dude right and he so he sends guy over and like i get i just start going back to work um my mom at the time thought uh they misdiagnosed her with lupus and uh she calls me and uh the combination of that and like my drug addiction i i had like a breakup with a girlfriend at the time um i like kind of spiraled i totally went m i on the crew guys right and uh i had this really nice apartment but i was like down on skid row just like hanging out on the

corner with the South Siders, like selling dope, just like reverting to Old Ray, you know? And, uh, literally just not going home because I was like doing clear night and then brown day. And I just like, you know, I was just like, my life fell apart. I was like really depressed. And, uh, I ended up, I go back to my apartment. At this point, the guy I'm working for, he's like kind of just like not, he's like, all right, Ray's on a bender. Like, let's leave him alone, you know? Um, so I got like these street drug dealers living. with me like so I'm like hey I got this pimp-ass big spot do you want to come stay with me and you just give me dope every day and they're like yeah dude so I just let them like sell dope and live

with my apartment and like you know keep me high um how long is that last not long I'm yeah I'm about tell you so our building our building I told you as a we have a rooftop pool and like we amenities and stuff in the basement there's ping pong tables and uh like pool tables and stuff like that and we had a doorman, like a front door guy that like, whatever, right? So what you do is the doorman had a bunch of pool sticks and, you know, all the stuff that goes to the games and things like that, right? And we just get them and we go down and play. So me and one of my phone partners, like, who was also just like getting high with me, we would just do math and play ping pong all night. And like, we got really good, like one pal in each hand just like, you know, like Olympic ping pongers.

And so I always left my keys in my apartment. um okay i want to just to skip all that uh so i i thought it was really funny when i was on meth to not i wouldn't break into people's houses to steal their stuff but like i would rearrange your furniture like okay so my building square building uh inside uh they had decks on inside and outside right and we had community decks on ninth floor in the basement. So when I was up playing ping pong with my buddy sometimes, or he was gone or whatever, I would go to the community decks.

And if you had a love seat and a long couch, I would just invert your deck. So, like, I thought it was hilarious if, like, they woke up and they were, like, having their coffee. They're like, something's off, but I don't know what it is because their shit's reversed. Right. To me, I thought that was really hilarious.

And, like, I wasn't really committing crimes, but, like, that's what I would do to kill my time. I was just, like, on a good one, right? Right. one of those nights I think I'm leaving because there's like an entrance door and I think I'm leaving

and I went into somebody's house door right like I opened the door dude's like hey what are you doing you know I was like oh my bad right and I closed the door he thought I was breaking in I was literally super just inebriated and so I go up I go out the right way go up to my door

past the doorman and the guy is staying there with a dormant like that's the guy I tried to break in my house I was like bro I live here I didn't want to tell him I was on drugs I was like hey I'm really drunk dude like I was like I got the doors make step like I really want to try to go on your spot my bad the guy's like okay so he's like with room I was like I'm in 416 and he's like okay he's like you got your ID I's like it's in the room right so he's like okay let's go up there and we'll get your ID and we'll sort this right and he's like I know this guy I see him like every day the doorman's like vouching for me he's like he lives here you know and so we're going up but during that interaction I told the guy that my name was the dude's name who owned the apartment, which was my play, my main guy. So you can't get your ID? It doesn't match.

I have my ID in there, but it doesn't match the name I gave him. And I realized this halfway up the stairs. So I hit the security guard. Oh my God. And I take off, right? And I'm like, I'm just going to run away. And my, I'm really high, right? So I'm running from this guy.

And I run into, I just start checking doors. One of them opens. I go through the apartment. This lady's like, ah, right? I run through there. I go out to her deck that faces the center. I jump off of her deck onto a different one, and I go down the stairs from that eighth floor.

So I just ran through two apartments, right? Off the deck into someone else's out, the other one. I'm hiding in the basement. I hear the cops come, right? I wait for them to pass where I am in the basement, and then I go to the leasing office, and the leasing office is in the basement floor too, and I go in there, and it's unlocked.

So I go in there, and I lock it. I'm like, cool, I'm just going to chill here till like they leave, right? I'm really high. I've been up for like a week, right? Right. I forget that like I'm hiding from the cops and I rearranged the leasing office. I'm a junkie, bro.

Like thoroughbred gutter junkie. I just happen to be really smart and I had a nice fraud like for a while. So I turn the pictures upside down, shit like that. You know, like I change all the keys in the mass because I found the master key box with all units on. I change all the tags on them, like just smoke or shit. The cops figure they meet with, I hear her, the leasing manager and the cops outside the door. I'm like, and I'm trying to hide and there's nowhere really to hide.

And she's like, I didn't lock this. And so they're trying to get in. I'm like, so I'm fighting with LAPD. LAPD kicks the door down. They beanbag me like that's all I really remember of the interaction with them. I woke up in LA County jailed like hospital unit like handcuffed to the bed. And I didn't give them my name. So they were like waiting my name.

Like you like I'm not giving you my name. And they, I saw they had me. Long story short. I'll cut that one. I got two home invasions. So I go to court. I meet with my lawyer. And mind you by this time, I've been to prison twice.

I've been through the system a lot. Like I just spent like the last 18 months like bailing out and like I think I'm good. So I was like my dude's going to bail me out. It's not a big deal. Right. So I meet with the attorney. And I'm like, he's like, okay. So he's like, you got one thing going for you.

And I was like, what's that? He's like, you don't have a record. I was like, in my head, I was like, right. I was like, correct. And I was like, so what am I looking at? He's like, well, you got an assault one officer. I was like, assault one officer. and he's like, yeah, you, like, this cop had to get nine stitches on his thumb.

You're like, you almost bit his thumb off. I was, like, fuck. And, like, I got a commercial burglary for breaking into the leasing office in the commission of a felony. I got two home invasions for running through the apartments in the commission of a felony. So, like, not a home invasion, but that's how the law was written. So he's like, you got two home invasions, assault, one, an officer, and a commercial bird. He's like, I was like, well, what kind of time am I looking at? He's like, you're looking at, like, 10.

Like, oh. So I was like, okay. I was like, why don't, we're at my arraignment, right? So I'm like, why don't you go ask the prosecutor right now? Like what kind of deal he's talking about, right? He's like, it's your arraignment. Like, I was like, I don't care. Tell him, I'll plead guilty today.

We can save everybody a whole bunch of time. What's his offer, right? Because I know I got strikes in Washington. Right. They don't know that. Oh, you're waiting. You want to beat it before they figure out. Yes.

Yeah. So like, I'm like, tell me like what they're working with. So he's like, okay, they'll drop the assault one in the officer. If you take the two strikes for the home invasions and the commercial You'll do nine years. They'll send you upstate. In California, L.A., you do your county time up to 10 years in the county. Oh, that sucks.

Unless it's a violent offense, then they send you up. So they want me to go upstate for nine years, right? But in California, they can give you two strikes at one time. Washington, they only give you one. You can commit 20 strikeable offenses in the same run, and they can only sentence you to one strike at a time. California, they can give you two at a time. Right?

And they didn't do an NCIC, so they didn't know that, like, I have. a strikeable offense, but I knew from if I get sentenced before they send me off, they're going to do an NCIC to make sure my points line up for the sentencing guidelines, right? So I cannot take that deal because that's two strikes and already have one. I was like, if I take it, I'll be striking myself out. Yeah, you'll be like a life sentence. Yeah. So I can't. So I said no. I was like, cool. I'm not signing no continuances. I want my speedy trial. So I didn't sign a continuance or nothing. I was like, not guilty. I didn't do it, right? I think I'm cooked. But so like I whole LA County is a could be a whole book on itself.

It's a, I've been to close custody in Washington. I've done all kinds of time in a lot of places. L.A. county is rough. Like I would not recommend it for anyone. But so I get so in L.A. County is so overpopulated by the time you get to court.

Often they don't have enough time on the docket to like see everybody. So you get turned around. They call it a turnaround, right? That's what the, you know, inmates call it. It's really common. So they load you up on a change. chain bus at 2 a.m. to go to the court because like LA County Jails like a city. And like so you get it on a chain bus. You go down to the court building. Hopefully you get seen. If you don't, you get back on

the chain. You go back and they do it to get the next day. That happened to me three times, three times in a row. And I was like, Jesus, dude, like this is super annoying. On the fourth one, same thing. Nothing. Right. And I go to elevator to go back down to the chain bus and they let me out, but it's a different floor. And I'm like, I've seen enough cops beat people's asses in here. I'm like, LA County Jail. They're not like fat cops. Like these guys are doing steroids. And like, I was like, yo, this is a Fenderhawg.

Like, I'm on the wrong floor. Like, I don't want to come out of elevator. They're like, come around the corner. I was like, are you sure? And they're like, yeah. So I come around. And I see the outside. And I like see the street.

I'm like, something's gone wrong. Yeah. I'm like, dude. I'm like, dude. Like, right? And so I'm up at the, I go up to the window. I was like, what's up? He's like, oh, is this your name?

Blah, blah, blah. He shows me a thing. I was like, yeah. And he's like, I'm like, what's going on? You're like, oh, we're doing the, we're doing an NCIC or whatever. You're getting released. I was like, they fuck something up. No, I'm not.

I didn't say that. Not if you did it do an NCIC. I'm not. Well, no, they, they, the NCIC is just a background, national crime investigation, whatever. Yeah, yeah, no, I know. But I thought right then they would see the strikes and be like, oh, this changes, that might change your situation.

See me, though. Yeah. So I think they something up, right? Okay. So I'm sitting there in the tank and I'm sweating, bro, like sweating. Like what is happening? I'm literally, sorry. How long have you been locked up at this point?

Just a few days? No, months. Oh, months. Yeah, 90 days. Okay. Because it was just over three months because I'm 90 day speedy trial, right? I don't have contact with my attorney. It's so overcrowded.

I have a public defender. Like, I've never talked to my attorney one time after the arraignment, right? Like, I have no idea what's happening. I've just been inside. doing time, waiting. Like, this is the craziest. I was familiar with Washington system, which at least I could have, like, contact.

It was just so overrun and, like, disorganized down there that, like, I don't know what Dick Spex, right? So I don't know what's happening. I sit in the tank for nine hours, and they let me go. And they let release me. And so I don't have clothes, nothing, right? Because, like, I fought the cops and, like, my shit was all f*** up. So I have the L.A. County jumpsuit on with the little slides.

They look like vans. and I hit the first pay phone outside of the jail and I called my attorney, right? I was like, what is happening? He's like, dude, they were doing your jury. I mean, they were setting you up for your, the omnibus or whatever, where they like send you the, whatever,

the like case facts. No, not jury. They couldn't get the witnesses there. So they subpoenaed the cop. They subpoenaed the victims and the leasing office and they didn't show up to court three days in a row. Like they'd already done everything, but the victims didn't show up.

So they had to release me and dismiss it. So like I literally, lucked out. Like I did that shit. Like, it wasn't a home invasion, but like I could totally be convicted. Oh yeah. They don't want to give a shit. They'll send you for nine years. Yeah. Yeah. Like I did that shit. Right. So I peer luck. The cop didn't show up to court. The people didn't show court. I got out. Right. So I'm like, I'm literally crying. Because like I've been talking to my girl. I was like, I'm going for a minute. You know, right? Um, so I call my guy. I'm like, hey man, I'm out.

Because he couldn't bail me out because they put me, it wasn't, they initially had me on like 50,000 and they raised it up with the assault on the officer, right? So he's like, I can't bill you out, bro. Like, he's like, that's too much money. Yeah. He's like. And you haven't been working. Yes.

And you're a junkie. And I can't, you know, I can't dump that. You may go straight. You may just fuck me and walk off. Like, I was fine. Like, I wasn't mad at him. Right. But he was not expecting to see me again, right?

So I call him. And he's like, what happened? I was like, your guess is as good as mine, dude. And he sent me out to Vegas. Oh, my God. Back on the fraud wagon. Hell yeah. And I'm like 180 pounds now.

You know, I've been fed for three months. Yeah. Well, you're all in your, you're clean. You're level-headed. You're ready to go. For about three days. Oh, fuck. So back on my bullshit.

Business as usual. Las Vegas actually sucked for the scam. Like, it was profitable for maybe like three or four weeks. Like we just sometimes, some cities, for whatever reason, the stores just catch up. on really quick or they don't have a really great population to pull from. Like, so it was like, just whatever. If we couldn't get enough phones rolling, we would just go to the next spot. So we go to the next spot.

We went to Salt Lake City, Utah after that. And there, me and the original guy that pulled me were like on the same level, right? Me and him go out there. Me and him were always fighting. It was like, I think it was just like an ego thing. We're just like, you know, I was like, he's like, you're junkie. I was like, I make more money than you. And we just always at each other.

There's like competition for like favor from the main guy or whatever, right? We got in another fight. I tried to take his car. He got away with the car. And then I didn't have anything. And then dude who I was working for, the main guy was like done. He was like, I'm like, bro, this shit's insane. You know?

You just got out of jail. Like all this stuff's MIA. And so I was like. whatever, I don't need you. So I started doing, I started from scratch. So what I did is I set up a buyer first. And then I posted a Craigslist ad and was like, hey, if you want to make 150 bucks like on the job postings, I was like, call this number.

And I had a one of the burner phones. I just had people calling me. And I'd be like, hey, come meet me here. I had these first couple people pick me up and drive me to the store. I had zero dollars. And we would get the phones, the zero ones down. I had the buyer ready to go. I would have them drive me to the buyer.

I would sell them, pay them their 150 from that first sale. Take the difference. Take the difference. And now I had money to buy the $200 iPhone when people got, you know? What a pain in the ass, right? But I made it happen. Yeah. Like, so I got my own little crew going again, right?

And so I stay in Salt Lake City for like two months doing this. And Salt Lake City is really good. Like, just like, I don't know, it's the Mormon population. I was because the Mormons are very trusting. Yeah. Yeah. And dude, the cities are clean. We had a bet going.

Like, we were like, all right, the first person to see a piece of litter out here gets a hundred bucks. Like, because the schools come out like 10 a.m. And they clean the streets. It was wild. But yeah, I had a good time. But I kind of at a certain point, I was like, am I just going to stay in Salt Lake City or like, I kind of wanted to go home. You know, like I haven't been to Washington and forever, you know.

So I was like, I'm just going to go back. So I posted, I didn't. It's funny, this is the drug addict in me at this time. I'm making all this money. Like, same in L.A. Like, I have this really nice apartment. I have this money coming in. my dumb ass would like get arrested for some smoker shit or like

I hate to interrupt the podcast but I need your help. Have you been or do you know anyone that has been arrested in Polk County? If you have, please contact me. We are desperately looking for guests that have been arrested in Polk County by Grady Judd. The last video we did actually got a million views. If you've been arrested, please go in the description box. Either contact me directly. My email's there.

Or you can fill out the form that we've got. got there's a link to the form. My email address is there. You fill out the form or email me. We will contact you. And we're going to try and get you on the program. I would get in a fight on the street with some random guy and get, you know, like dumb shit. That was literally just the cause from the drugs.

You know, like if I, I think about it all the time. Like if I had not been high, I probably could have owned a house, you know, like in that, you know, like just outright. But so I. I don't know how I'm going to get home. So I post the ad. I was like, I'm going to get home for free. So I post the ad on Craigslist on the ride share. I was like, hey, I didn't go to Washington.

This chick answers it. We go meet up. And my head, I'm a dirtbag criminal, right? Like, I look presentable. You know, like I have decent clothes on, you know, shit like that. But like, I know me. And this chick meet. We meet up at the mall for the ride chair or whatever, right?

And I'm like, dude, she's just a square. She pulls up in a beamer, like, five series, right? And she's like this really cute blonde girl, right? And I was like, I don't want to bring my mess into her life, you know? Right? So I was like, I appreciate it. Like, thanks for the offer. Like, I'm not going to take this ride.

And she's like, no, no, no, it's fine. And blah, blah. I was like, I do drugs. I'm like, I do drugs. She's like, that's cool. I was like, she's like, just don't do them in the car. I was like, all right. So I get in the car.

She said she did drugs. She pulled out a gallon zip-block bag of blunts, like pre-rolled. And we start smoking a tree and we're driving back. I told her I wouldn't get high in a car, but I was totally getting high, like, at every rest stop. Right. So we get home, like, not all the way to Washington. She tells me that she's, she was in Salt Lake City to make a pickup, right? And she was driving it back to Washington, right?

So my- To make a pickup for what? Meth. Like, and I was like, in my head, I'm like, she picked me up because I'm the fall guy. I was like, that's why she was like, oh, cool, whatever. I don't care what you're doing. She gets pulled over my state. She's like, this is the dude, the meth of the trunk is.

She just told me this shit, right? I was like, well, like, how much, right? She's like, a lot. I was like, I don't know. The guy just sent me out here to pick it up. And so in my head, I'm like, I'm going to rob this. Right. So I tell her about my phone gig.

I saw, like, we're just like, okay, let's like clear the air. Like, we're both, hell, like, criminals, right? and so I was like she drops me off and like I'm kind of crushed on her she's fine right like and so she drops me off in Bellevue and I want to see her again right hey I want to rob her I want to rob her I want yeah I want to know who her plug is so I can rob her right but also I was like she's hot like I'm trying to smash too right and uh so I was like hey we should network like blah blah blah I was like so she gave me her her number I texted her I didn't hear nothing from her she hit me up in a couple days

we started like she started like showing up it was like well how much dope you got blah blah blah you know right and then she would show me what she had and I would take it and I would like she didn't have any connects in Washington she was not from there so I would just like help her sell some of the shit right it wasn't a lot but it kept getting more

and then she had lots all kinds of stuff right she had like the pill packs like the oxies in the pill packs from the pharmaceutical things like she had things of ketamine like big old bags of dope like it seemed like I'm on the supply and she didn't know shit about drugs. I'm like what is going on here, right? So are you going to rob this girl?

That's a plan. But then I started crushing on her. We start doing a little business, right? And like I like her, right? And again, like the guys I've been working for, this was like another clean cut person that had their shit together. It had a nice beamer.

And like, you know, I kind of, I was like, this is a successful person. I want to keep around in this circle, right? But it is amazing how many. people in your circle have have dodged being robbed how close they came to being robbed i mean i've robbed a lot of people in the meantime you know like in between it's just like i'm not i i know this about myself like it was like identified it early with why why rob the hand that feeds yeah yeah this is a way more like i told my dude from the feds in the beginning before we robbed the guy we went to denver i was

like we're making so much money like he might have 20 30 racks on we can make that in like three weeks if like we just keep doing this. Yeah, there's just stupidity at this point. Yeah, it didn't make any sense. Like, and like you said, people will run off with the three grand when they had the 30, like, but, and so I don't know, I like the long game. Yeah. But, uh, which is weird because like I'm a, like I said, thoroughbred junkie and like,

I could always put it off. Like, I was pretty successful, I think, at keeping the habit going. So I'm hip now to like, I've been across the country. I've been to like, you know, 20 states doing this. you know, and so through messing with her, we, like, we'd be hanging out. Sometimes we would just go on drives and, like, go to all these different places, right? We go to dollar stores and we buy a bunch of padded envelopes. And, like, I'm like, something is up with what she's doing.

I don't know what it is, right? But I know there's a scam going on, right? So, like, I'm, like, paying attention to it. And I just straight up asked her one time, like, what she's doing. I was like, what's up with the envelopes? Why do we keep going to all these post offices? like, you know, like, and she said, she told me, are you familiar with like the Silk Road, like the dark web?

Like, you where people were buying dope on there or whatever. They were selling dope on there, right? And so like her job was to go get the envelopes and get the dope and then mail it, right? And like, I was like, oh, cool. And she was funneling dope off the side, drugs off the side and having me sell them because she was stealing them from the guy that like had all this stuff, right? So again, I'm like my gears are turning. I want to rob that guy, right? Luckily for me, because me and my buddy, we had it all set up. We had vests and everything. Like I knew where to do live. Like we were going to go kick his door down. Like, SWAT, get him, right?

And literally the week we were going to do it, the feds cracked him. Like, and so they had already been watching him for a minute. So it was funny. I was like, thank you, Jesus. Because like, if, I wouldn't kick that dude's door down. The cops would have you on film. Yeah, they would have me like right there, right? So they go, they get cracked. And then I'm out of a hustle, right? I haven't been doing the phone things.

I've been doing the drug thing with her. And I don't have the phone things. I stopped doing the phone thing. I very shortly, I waited a little bit and I hit dude up, my main phone guy. And I was like, hey, man, like, I know it's been a while. Hey, buddy. Yeah. And he's like, all right, man.

He's like, we can do this again. He's like, but you got to go to Philly. I was like, cool. I love Philly, dude. Right? So he sent me out to Philly. I'm not in Philly like two weeks. My mom calls me.

Like me and my mom aren't really like super tight, right? And she's like, hey, you got filed on. Like you got new charges here. They came with the house or whatever. It's from King County. I was like, for what? She says robberies. I was like, I was like, I already went to prison for that.

Right. You know? And I was like, when's the court day? And she told me and I was like, okay, I'll fly home. I was like, can I crash with you while I do this court thing? You know? And she's like, yeah. So I fly back.

I go to court. I like bring a bunch of drugs in with me. I'm ready to go to jail, right? Like I was like, whatever. I'll just like deal with this. They don't. It was a robbery from that same string, the first ones. Right.

And mind you, now it's been almost three years, right? It was two months, two years, 11 months. So it was a month away from the statute of limitations for robbery in Washington, right? Right. And they filed on me for one single robbery, like in North Seattle, right? and my lawyer, he's like, hey, Ray already had a global resolution. You guys said that you were wrapping this all up with the last ones. Like, he's like, this is like almost a sad.

This is like malicious prosecution. He's like, you shouldn't be able to bring this stuff up when Ray's already, you know, pled guilty to it, blah, blah, blah, all the things. You guys should have filed that with the other ones because it wasn't a new county or anything like that. It was just like an additional one. And the judge was like, yeah, you're right. Like we, he's like, I don't, this doesn't really make sense.

He's like, I'll PR you like on, he gave me a no bail. like bail, right? And he's like, we'll figure out what's going on because he's like, I don't really agree with this. So he sent me, he pushed out my court date, like two weeks, and I gave me a new court date. I wasn't expecting to be there that long. I thought I was just going to, like, bail out,

go back to Philly. So I had my mom, can I crash here? She says, yeah, my drug addict ass, like, I'm not doing the phone thing, and I have two weeks to kill, so I'm like, I'm just going to fucking get high, right? I get super high. I'm like on a good one for like three, four days.

I don't want to go back to my mom's house. all fuck off. I'm kind of fucked up. You know, I've been out there for a couple of days. So I slide through the mall to go get a new change, you know, change my clothes before I go home. I put a new outfit on. I walk out the mall. The security guard tries to grab me.

And you don't grab a tweaker that's been up for like a week, you know? I, like, socked him. I like turn around like, bam, hit him, right? And I run away. They tackle me. They want handcuff on. I run away again. They bring me in.

I'm walking through the aisle. They're walking me through the aisle like that, right? I jump over the clothes right? I did like a roll and I go down the escalator and I'm running through the mall with the hand goes on and they tackle me again and I headbut one of them and they just end up standing on me. They just like put their boot down on my face and I just like literally stand on me until the cops get there. What I don't realize is that I just turned a misdemeanor theft charge into a robbery by hitting

the security guard. So like I'm on bail for two weeks and so they take me back. I go into court. I go for your first thing. I asked my attorney. I was like, hey, can you ask for a bail reduction? Because they had my bail on $150,000, right? I was like, I can't make $150,000.

But like, if you get it reduced, I could probably bail out, right? And so we go in for the bail reduction. And the judge is the same one that let me out. He goes, Mr. Howard, do you remember me? I was like, no. He's like, I remember you. He said, you were in here on a Rob 1 and I PR'd you and you caught a brand new robbery. He's like, I'm not reducing your bail.

I'm raising it. So he raised it to $250,000. I was like, Your Honor, if you don't let me out, I can't come back. He's like, get the fuck out of my courtroom. And so I ended up doing three years on that. I fought it. I put it down to a theft one and assault. So I ended up doing three on that.

And when I got out that time, I mean, yeah, there's like, all the good stuff's done. Right. All the juicy stuff. You want to know the rest? Yeah, just rough. I mean, you know, you can, like, how did you get your shit together? So I got my shit together. like the three years at this point

I'm like I don't know like I've moved above mentally and the like the little I keep getting caught up on the stupid street hustle bullshit you know but like I know how to do scams but right so like I'm like I'm not going to do that if I go back to it I'm going to like do it right

like do these things do it right yeah it's my thing right I've not been able to do it right for like 10 years but I'm like I'm going to do it better this time you know if I just do it brown there's days but so I make it the work release I stay out of trouble in prison this time I make it the work release my girlfriend comes to see me she's like hey man that phone shit you were doing like I was really sick like I'm trying to get on I was like I got you I'll put you on as soon as I'm out of here

I was like you just can't be doing dope I was like I'm not be doing drugs this time the drug keep me up I was like if I wasn't high like I'd definitely be winning I was on high I'd be a millionaire right for sure off this fraud dude just tell me that shit all the time he's like dude I've paid you so much money like what are you doing right So she comes to see me. She leaves. She overdoses and dies that night. She had just got out of jail.

She came to see me at work release. She was going to check me out for a weekend, like, visit. And she overdosed and died. I'm sorry. Yeah, it was rough. That hit me really hard. And I left work release on my next visit, and I got drunk at the bar. And I was just kind of like, whatever.

You know, like I just let it, you know, I started making this bad decisions. I somehow managed to stay out long enough that when I came back, I blew a point zero, zero eight, a zero eight, like nothing, right? So I denied it. I was like, I wasn't drinking, you know? And I just rode that. Didn't get kicked out.

I stayed. But what that did is it started like my addiction all over again, you know? So like I started doing some boxings because you couldn't piss dirty for those when I was in work release and when I got out. I made it four days and I was doing dope. And then within five weeks, I was, I had a pistol and I was rocked. And like I ended up I had to this dude set my current girlfriend up. So I went over there. I beat him with the bat in his front yard like you know, serve some street justice. I grew up with the guy, right? Like I felt really bad about that. Like I had like a little bit of conscious. You know, I hadn't been like doing drugs for too long. And I remember sitting in the car after we were leaving me and my chick. I brought her out to do it. And we were leaving. I threw the through the piece out in there. And I was sitting. her. I'm like, dude, I ain't been out five weeks and I'm already like committing like class A

felonies. You know, I was like, this is a, I started like seeing the pattern. I was like, this is not sustainable. So I called my probation officer the next day. I was like, hey man, like, I'm not doing great. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, I'm committing hell of felonies, bro. He's like, what? I was like, I'm not going to tell you what. I was like, I'm getting high. I was like, what you need to do is put me in jail, like violate me, right? And he's like, what? I was like, if you don't send me to jail, I'm going to catch some, like, charges and, like, go bad. I want to stop. He's like, well, I can't send you to jail because you haven't had any violations yet. So in Washington, they do swift insert. So you get like a warning and then you do five days,

and you do 10 days, whatever, right? He's like, so I can give you to warning. He said, but do you want to go to treatment? I was like, yeah, he's like, we'll send you to treatment. I go to treatment. I bring some Suboxins with me because I'm strung out on Brown. Like, I'm going to kick it. They find the Suboxons on me, and Lewis County's a little podunk town. Seattle, they would have, even like a grandma brown would have just like throwing it out back in the day they're like whatever they don't care lewis county was they charged me with a felony for possession for having that it's not even a narcotic and so with my points at the time i had eight felony points uh my range was 12 to 24 months i pled out i was only in county for like three weeks i just told the prosecutor i'll just do my time

like i'm not even to fight this like you just send me back to prison like i need a break you know so i pled out to 12 months the low end the judge tried to give me 24 he gave me uh the prosecutor I was like, no, dude, I'll revoke my deal. Like, you know, I agreed to 12. And so I do my 12 months. During that time, like, I go to, I go into the processing. I end up in the hole in Shelton, like, processing in the prison system. And I, I'm in the same wholesale that I was in, in the prior bid, like, for going, you know, I got in assault. I did a program or whatever. And I was sitting in here on an investigation for an extortion, like on the prison yard, right? And I'm sitting in there. And that for me is like when I was like, maybe I don't got me, you know? Like this whole time I've been thinking like I had my life. You know, I was like, but I'm sitting in D203 and I was just here two and a half years ago. And I was like, this, something's got to change, you know?

Like, so I got out at a hole that time. I went to Mainline and I was like, I'm going to stay out of stuff enough that like I don't, I'm not going to be involved in the drug trade anymore. I'm still do what I got to to, like, maintain my seat or whatever, but, like, if you want to do drugs, I do it on a yard, don't bring it to my house, I'll beat your ass, you know? Like, I got, drew a really hard line on drugs. And I started going to the drug classes for the first time. Like, you know, like, before that I was like, you doC, I'm not doing nothing, you know? And then this time, so I went to classes. When I was in the drug classes, there's this nonprofit that, uh, in Washington, um, called the post-prison education project started by an ex, uh, federal, uh, federal, uh, federal. guy. He was also in for some fraud stuff like that. Ari Cohn he's passed now. But he started this nonprofit that signed us.

If you wrote him a letter, him and the people as nonprofit would sign you up for the FAFSA and get you enrolled in a local college to where you were releasing before you got out. So I did that. And I was ninth grade dropout. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I was like. But you do have your GED.

I had my GED. So you didn't have to start over from scratch. Like you didn't have to go get your GED before you could go That's why I was in the drug classes, because in Washington State, if you don't have your GED, they make you do your GED while you're in prison. So most people just slow poke their GED so they don't have to do drug classes. So I had to do the drug classes, right? But because I had my GED, I was like, well, maybe I'd just go to school, right? So I go out in the yard. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm going to go college, right?

You're saying, like, the people you've seen come in and out. Right. My homie awesome was like, okay, bro. He's like, I see you three years three times since I've been down. He's like, you ain't doing shit. Like, I'll see when you come back. Right. And that shit, like, really hurt my feelings, you know, but I was like, but it also, I was like, he's not wrong. Yeah. He's not wrong. I was like, I did that shit. Like, you know, I was like, on paper, I don't have anything to show that like I'm going to do anything different than I was last time. So I was like, I'm just going to get out and do it, you know? And I got out. And I didn't, I don't know if you've ever, if you're exposed anything in like a recovery circles, but if they like in 12 step meetings, they say if you're in an institution, whether that be treatment or prison or jail or whatever, if you. If you.

go to a 12-step meeting, like the day you get out, you have like a 50% chance better staying clean, right? That's just like some arbitrary statistic they made up. Right. But it's like one of those cliche sayings. I applied that to school. So like the day I got, they released me at the bus station in Everett, um, prison sweatsuit. I had my chain bag with 12 bucks, you know, like literally nothing to my name.

Like nobody would pick up my phone calls at this time and just like I, you know, I was a mess. It burned all the bridges. Everything. Yeah. burnt everything. So I walked my ass from. to Everett bus station to the Everett Community College in my prison suit.

I use their welcome computer and I sign up for classes, right? And they start, they have me enrolled for like six months out, right? And I left there and I went to an N.A. meeting and I like shared honestly for like the first time. It was like really vulnerable about what had been going on. And like, I don't know, just like I started going to meetings every day, six months rolled around. I shut up to school.

I spent the first year, like, convinced they were going to escort me off the property. You know, because I was like, there's no way. Like, you know, like, if they knew who I was, they'd let me be here. I used to, I'd go to colleges before, but there was to steal textbooks and sell them, you know? Like, I don't know what time I ever been to school is like, you guys over, like, go to a high school party to get you guys to do it. Brown, you know, like, that was it. So, like, it was, I was terrified of, like, they would find out about my past. And, but I was bored.

one day and I didn't want to do my homework and I was just browsing the internet and I saw my community college had a scholarship link like it's like you apply to this general scholarship in the Senate or whatever and the answers I didn't proofread my my essays or nothing I just like wrote them straight into the text box and I told them like everything I just told you basically like about my upbringing I gave him a condensed version of like the crime period and like I told him about being in prison like how I got the papers I sent it off didn't think anything of it. But that was the first time I, like, told normal people, like, what's been going on in my life, right? So they called me, and they were like, this shit is crazy. They're like, and they're like,

can you come into our office and talk to us? And like, so they want to talk to me. And they were, they were just like, we're blown away by your story. Like, like, it, and so they gave me a scholarship. And they asked me to speak at the, uh, because at this point, I've been there for like three or four quarters and I was four a student, like, which is, was crazy to me. Because, like, I just start in like pre-high school math. Like, to me, I thought I was stupid, right? And then I wanted to be a nutritionist. And I was like, okay, I have a little experience in the fitness industry, but trainers

don't make shit. I was like, if I'm a nutritionist, I could work at a hospital, still be in the fitness industry, but actually make a salary, right? So, and I was like, I won't have to do any math. So I get through algebra one, cool, done, right? Don't got to do that. But I have to take chemistry, the chemistry series, to be a nutritionist. And when I was in the chemistry series, the chemistry professor noticed that I was really good at, like, at chemistry and that I was building motorcycles because, like, I was paying for myself.

So I was like, still hustling. Right. So I got out. I was like, I can't commit crimes or they'll send me back. So what I did was I would, I would go to tow yards, buy cars from the auctions after people got their shit impounded or whatever. And then I'd teach myself how to fix them on YouTube and then flip them. That way, I didn't have to have a job. Right.

So, like, I just still making cash on the weekends. And I did that. But I forget where I was going. They gave you a scholarship. You said, they said it was, it was an incredible story. Yes.

So I had the sick ass chopper I bill. I built the 78 XS 650, which is like a very cult classic like, you know, a cruiser motorcycle. It's like that, the Suzuki Savage and the Harley Sportsster are like the top three for like hardtail bobber builds, right?

So I built one with the excess 650 and I brought it to school. and he was like, why are you not doing engineering? And I was like, what the, engineering? I literally never heard engineering, right? He's like, you know, you can like get paid to make vehicles, right? I was like, for real? He's like, yeah. And he told me about Formula Motorsports, which was an engineering club that makes like F1 cars at colleges.

And they race them like in Germany. And like, it's a competitive student organization, right? So I found out about that. And I was like, oh, I got to do that. That's sick. But you have to be an engineering student. And I was like, I got to take all the math. So I switched majors.

I started taking math, and I found out I was stupid good at math. Yeah, because you're a 4.0 student. I don't know why you wouldn't be good at math also. Yeah, so I literally 4-0 to everything. I was like in honors calculus, the whole series. And this was all news to me, you know, I was like, I'm literally from the day. Like, so I end up, I switch majors. I'm in engineering.

I have this whole goal. I was like, I looked at schools. I wanted to go to Berkeley. I want to go to UW, UW in Washington, because they had the number two formula team in the country, right? And I was like, I want to get on that team. My chemistry professor, when I got closer to graduating with my associates, by this time, I've been a tutor at the college. I'm like a, like literally the poster boy for Everett Community College. They have me on their ads, like my faces all over to school. I work in a tutoring center. That I've gotten every scholarship. I started

working with the Everett City Council to pass the Fair Chance Housing Bill because Seattle changed their laws so that they couldn't discriminate against people. Because of my record, I know, I own a house now. I've never ran an apartment in my name. I can't. I'm a violent felon. I literally get denying on everything. Seattle changed that a couple years ago, and what they did is in their bill that they passed so you can discriminate.

They treat it like a protected class for criminal records, right? Except for arson and sex crimes. Those two are excluded still, but everything else is good to go. They can't say no, you can't rent. But what they did is in their bill, they cited all the studies that show that it's like, if you make it four years out, you're just as likely to commit a felony as the,

Joe Schmoe. Like it like there's never there's no correlation between a criminal record and people's like being a tenant like those things aren't related at all. And so I took that and I was trying to pass it in Everett. Snowmish County is like way more Republican than Seattle. So it's like they're not going for it. But I tried to push it. I got the president's award for working on that. Like they nominated me from the school, all the public community colleges and I won that award for that work. And then between that and the scholarship stuff and the tutoring. Mark, the chemistry professor, he nominated me for this full-ride scholarship to UW is for transfer students with community impact.

And I applied to that, and I had multiple rounds of interviews, and I got it. And it was $41,000, three full years paid at UW. And then my last year at Community College, they putted the bill. So I got a full ride from them for the Martin Scholarship. And while I was at UW, I continued, at this point, by the time I transferred to UW, which is number four or three research university in the country, it's like Ivy League Public School for medical stuff. For engineering, it's like ranked 40th. It's not like top, but they do have the best formula club, which was my goal. Right, right.

Day one, I'm like, yo, I won on this car club. And I was like, here's all my stuff. And they were like, yeah, absolutely. So I got on the car club. COVID happens. So the only time we can go to school is for the car club. So we're in the pit. That's what we called it, the mechanic shop, working on these cars the whole time.

And then they compete nationally and then internationally. But because of COVID, the only state that would let us compete was Vegas. Vegas didn't care about the COVID regulations. They kept their speedway open. And right, so we competed there. But they did have the like people restrictions. So they're only allowed nine people in. And so the team leaders went.

I wasn't a team leader at the time. So I wasn't going to be able to go in. I just had to be support outside the stadium. I'm a good criminal though. So I printed my resume and I snuck in to pass the COVID people, right? And there's a bunch of recruiters there for like Tesla and SpaceX and the boring company and all that. And I got my resume out to the one of the, to all of them. I ended up landed an internship at SpaceX in L.A.

as a fluids engineer. And I did that twice. That's SpaceX. In L.A. Nice. Which is also, it was crazy to me. I remember flying down there the first time. And they're paying my relocation and everything, right?

I was like, I, like, not, like, four years ago, I was sitting in a six by nine with a ninth grade education. Like, you know, like, nobody. Right. I'm like literally getting actually paid to fly down to the number one engineering firm in the world. To like, what? Like, it was insane to me, right? And so I did that, killed it. They brought me back.

Killed that. I was like, that's my life. By this time, my wife and I, we had bought a house. I had two kids. We did this all during school or whatever. So I was like, I'm going to work at SpaceX. That's like the new trajectory. Which to tie back to like the other stuff is like, I told you, I was trying to put all my friends on.

Like when they got out of prison with the phone scam, right? And so I'm still in like, heavy. I was like affiliated prison gang, all that shit, right? Like the whole time I was in there. And so like, I'm still in contact with a lot of these guys. I mean, there was a point when I got out this most recent time I got released in 2016, where I was still selling, I was still sending dope into the joint, you know, like I was and I was like, after I'd been out for like a year, like, I was like, dude, I was like, it don't feel good, you know? Yeah, yeah. So I had to cut that off. I lost a lot of my friends through that, but whatever, you know, I was like, dude, it's not a loss.

but I'm still in contact with a lot of guys. And because of my success at Everett Community College and because I was on probation for so long because I was a violent felony, a violent offender, I worked a lot with the DOC and my buddies and I was like kind of respected in like the DOC circle.

You know, it's like, hey, this is a total fuck off that like turned his shit around, you know? Like, so they got like my buddies would call me and I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm in L.A. working at SpaceX, you know? Like the fuck out of here. Yeah, they're like reading my article.

They're like, it was really cool. It went from like, oh, I'll see you when you come back next time to be like, dude, I saw that article in you. Like you're like literally mad astronauts and shit. You know, it's like, is wild. And so. That shit was, I'm sorry.

I was going to say the other day, like, Jess and I were looking at that they had launched big heavy, right? And it came back down and it landed on it. And I mean, Jess and I were just watching it on. Yeah, they caught it first time. Yeah. It was like, do you have any

They just caught a 10-story building. Like, this is in, this is, this is, this is insane. Like, this is star, this is like, like, I'm starting to think. We will see Mars in our lifetime. Yeah, that, I was like, this is in, this is some insane shit right now that I never thought would, would, would, really would happen. You know what I'm saying? Like, this is over the top. Which I was, dude, I, I, I remember working out, I was a line cook like during college.

like I got whatever jobs I could, right? Yeah. I remember asking for a raise and the guy was like, you're feeling dude. Right. You know? And I'm working at SpaceX. Like,

you, it's, it was, I thought for sure I wouldn't get it, you know, I'd been denied at Boeing, like all these places. I was sure my record would keep me.

SpaceX let me work there. They have a very, like, I found in tech, and I try and I preach this a lot. STEM is really important, especially for people that are justice impacted. We don't work with the public.

Like, on my computer and I do design work all the time. Like they don't care. Like, like, are you good at the technical skill that we're here to hire you for? If that's it, then I like, all that other shit. We just like, you can work at the Elon companies without a degree. Yeah, I was going to say, I think that's Elon Musk in general. Like, can you do the job? Like, that's all I give a shit about. Like, you know, you've got to be able to perform. And it's about performance base. And that's it. But I was thinking the, um, uh, it's funny because when they first, remember, what was, I forget, whatever, the boosters, when it, the first time at falcons.

nine is their main single one, but they had Falcon one, which it launched three times. And Elon, like, took a loan and successfully on the fourth one. And that's what started SpaceX. Well, I mean, the one that's landing on its own. Yeah, Falcon, yeah. The one when it first came down, boom, crashes, comes down again, crashes, comes down. And then it lands. And I thought, you know what's it?

Have you been to Kennedy to see him? No. You should. I'm so jealous of living down here. I saw one at Cape Canaveral in California. I would love to. Is Cape Canaveral around here? Vandenberg is where I went.

Well, I mean, to me, I remember thinking of myself, we know what's going to have what, like, they're probably going to be able to land one out of every, you know, like maybe they'll two out of three, but they're going to continue to crash. And now it's, it's just every, it's 13, 14 runs, bro. Yeah, it's just like, oh, no, no, it's done. It's a done deal.

Yeah. Like, unless there's a malfunction malfunction malfunction, like, and there hasn't been like, we're literally going to, going to launch these, random launch them, like, it's a huge deal for,

like, not only like our country, but like, for like the industry is, it saves massive amounts of money, which makes it way more accessible. That's why we'll see advances in our lifetime,

you know? Yeah. Oh, Jess and I watched the whole thing. Listen, I've watched 10 videos. I could talk all day about going to Mars.

Like I watched the inspiration for, uh, the, where SpaceX sent the four civilians up. It's on Netflix. It's a little like three or four part mini series. No, because I've watched most of stuff.

It's just kind of like on YouTube. Got it. So, you know, but so I've watched more like people talking about what the plan is, how they're going to use, how they're going to use, oh shoot,

what is the name of the, yeah, not big heavy, but what it, Starship. Starship. They're going to use, you know,

they're going to put one starship up, then they're going to do another, then they're going to flip them, then they're going to go to, leave one, come back, like, I was at a plan.

So Gwen shot well, the president, we, it's, space X is really cool because, because it's very non-hierarchal. So you're like always, you're two people away from Elon. Like, you know, like it's very flat, you know.

So we got a presentation. I got to meet Gwen. And I asked her, I was like, are we going to like, who are you going to send up there? You know? And she's like, well, it's a private company. And like, there's not an abundance of astronauts. So she's like, well, be sending SpaceX, you know, employees. I was like, sick.

Get me on the list. Yeah, for sure. She said their first successful starship landing, the, they're going to do a test run. The first time they get a landing one, they said the next one will have people on it. So like, it's wild, dude. But I don't work there. They offer, I could have. What happened?

My wife didn't want to move to LA. And so we had a, we had a deal. We had a deal. Because I talked to one of my manager friends there and I was like, as I do, what do I do? Like, I kind of want to tell her to fuck off and like, you know, like, this is like, dude, the signing bonus was like 150 racks. I was like, this is life changing for us, right? Like, and he told me, that's a good story too, man.

Andy's cool. It kind of plays into, like, who I am as a person and a personality. You know, like, I just meet these people, you know? But I asked Andy, he was like a mentor to me at SpaceX. And I was like, hey, what do I do, man? Like, he's like, he said, dude, you're super smart. Like, he's like, and you're personal. And like, you're like, you're like, he's like, you have nothing but good reviews here.

He's like, you can get a job anywhere. He's like, do you want, like, do you want to do it now or later? He's like, you might not have another shot like keeping your family, you know? He's like, he was a seal for 22 years before he was. And he's like, I've moved my family so many times. And he's like, he's like, I'm kind of in the same boat as you. He's like, my wife doesn't want me here. He's like, this is like, yeah.

He's like, I advise you to just like take one for the team and like, you know, you can pursue your dream later. And I was like, all right. So me and my wife had a deal. I would do one interview because engineering interviews are hard. They're like multi rounds and like either they're test like, you know? It's like, it's crazy. I don't want to do the process.

Plus I have to tell him I'm a felon every time. Like I have that. And I'm like, you have multiple hurdles. Dude, I'm at the top. I can't go higher than SpaceX. Why would I go anywhere else, right? So the deal was I would do one interview. I was like, I'll do one Washington interview.

I'll apply to a bunch of places. I'll do one interview. If they don't beat Space's offer, I don't think they were going to, right? I was like, if they beat SpaceX's offer, I'll stay. Sure is shit, I get offered this like aviation, like, laser job, right? And they're like, how much of SpaceX paying you? I said 85, blah, blah, blah. And they gave me 95.

And I was like, dude, like, So I was like, okay, I have to. Plus, with our tax structure in Washington, compared to California, we actually would have been taking, like, a net 40,000 a year loss to go to California. We owned a house. We would have been renting. It made sense financially. I was like, that sucks. But I was like, Andy said I can come back whenever.

I already check my manager. He's like, yeah, dude, we got a job for you, you know? So I took the job. That job ended up being, like, a front for some, like, Russian shit. This is right when Ukraine happened. So they fly me to Italy to do training. and I'm like, cool, I'm going to do helicopter training with lasers in Italy, dude. This is going to be tight.

They did have lasers and helicopters in Italy. The reason they sent me there was not because that's where they work on the lasers, like they told me. It's because their entire 150-person organization, 140 of them were Russian engineers, and they couldn't leave the country. So they had everybody else in the company quit, except for one engineer in Italy. So they had to send me over there for training because all the other ones couldn't get out of Russia. So I'm a felon. I'm very familiar with things that are going on. I was like, bro, I've worked at ITAR companies.

Like, I know what ITAR is, like, international trade agreement regulations for, like, SpaceX and shit. I was like, I don't want a foreign government on my resume, bro. I was like, I already am a felon. Like, I don't want Russia on top of my eight felonies. I was like, I quit, dude. So I'd come back from Italy. I quit.

And I'm like, okay, I'm going back to SpaceX. I call SpaceX. They don't got a spot for me in L.A. anymore. I was like, cool. What about Redmond in Washington? He's like, I put in a bunch of reviews. I mean, recommendations. I spent five months interviewing on four different teams at Redmond, right?

And I told my wife, I was like, I'm not going to work because I need to prep for these. Like, I can't, this, it's not a joke. Like, I need to, like, prepare. So I had to go through three rounds of interviews, and then a fourth round is a presentation. It's six hours. So you present on your most technical project, and then you get grilled by everyone there. And then you do 30-minute, like, interviews with each person that was on the panel. They can ask you engineering questions.

So you need to prepare, right? spent five months at SpaceX Microsoft Google Amazon Virgin Galactic goes bankrupt they all go on layoffs there's an abundance of engineers I don't get a job so now I ended up taking the first job

I could get which was a civil engineering job at at WashDOT which is our department transportation I'm not even a civil engineer but they were like your resume sick you know so do that hate it I get a job doing what I was doing at SpaceX which is automation and controls at a local firm.

That's what I do now. And I love it. Like it's literally what I want to do. It's not on rockets. It's on, you know, wastewater treatment plants and stuff like that or production plants.

Same work, though. So I don't know. That's probably cuttable from the podcast, but that's what I do now, which, you know, that's okay. And I, like, the reason I bring it up is because, A, it's like

part of my story, but in engineering, like, everyone's like, Oh, I played with Legos. That's how I knew it would be an engineer. Yeah. Looking back, I'm like, I was really smart, dude. Right. Some of that shit was like, I mean, I was a drug addict, but like some of the, like, figuring out the phone scam and stuff like that, like, it does take a level of intelligence to, like, figure the complexities of that out.

And then, like, also, like, I remember when I was stealing stuff with my brother, like, when we were in junior high, I figured out that, like, if you take a coat hanger and you, like, make it in this L shape and then you flatten the end, you could pop. lockers with locks on them at the school. And so we'd steal all the way teams stuff like at basketball games. And like I was like, I wasn't playing with Legos, but I was like definitely picking lots and shit. Like I mean, the mechanical aspect should have been there, you know. And there's a lot of, yeah, wasted talent in prison. That's so much. Dude, I know, I mean, just I only got my bachelor's man, but I got through the scholarships and stuff. I know a lot of people. I thought I was unique for many years like in college like I I'd never known anyone from the life that like got went to school until like I went to UW and a scholarship and I met more people and there's a significant amount

of people to get out and like get masters and PhDs and stuff like that and like it's really cool like I don't know like I I I did a lot of work like trying to push like education in the prison system in the US and like I really feel like if you look at the numbers recidivism is greatly reduced by it and like Right. I mean, the shit, you were doing it. Yeah, dude, we're smart people. Like, we're super smart people. Like, I just, I don't know.

For me, anyway, my world was so small. I didn't see where I could apply that, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, and this is actually perfect. Your case is, you know, idealic for this is that, you know, I always see these guys that, like, they, they end up, it's like, wow, you're super smart.

Well, you were, you were just a drug dealer. But, you know, but, you know, but. well yeah but when you were this kid was raised his mom's a prostitute his dad's in and out of prison all only people he knows that have any money or drug dealers like there's no you know what I'm saying when you're looking at your options and you have no options and it's like okay I could go work at McDonald's or I could go pull 1500 a week as a you know runner for this guy right what are you going to do I pay my mom's bills this way you know right and that's it that's the only options like they don't know anybody else and they don't know what avenue there is to do anything else and

even if they can think, oh, well, everybody says I should do this and this and this. They don't know anybody that's doing any of those things. They don't know anybody that's successful at those things. So they become foreign. That's some guy saying, yeah, you should go to college and then you could go get a job doing the making a lot of money doing what? I don't know. There's jobs out there.

He doesn't know because he's a crackhead. You know what I'm saying? That is my pitch to my guys. Most of us, I'm like, bro, you are a scholarship golden ticket. I made enough money from scholarships. I bought a house. Like, I was pulling 160,000 a year on scholarships. I was like, if you take that hustler mentality, I was like, I wrote a four-page essay that

paid me $40,000. It took me three months to write it with the drafts and stuff. That's good money, dude. I was like, I mean, I literally got paid to go to school because of my past. You know, I was like, you can still profit off of it. Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly.

Like, making, I'm making crime pay. Yes. You know? So, um. There's smarter ways to do what we were doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hustle don't stop, but just, you know, you don't get arrested. for it. The right way.

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