Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Secret Playbook of Online Gurus | Ex-Partner Exposes Everything

Episode Date: March 22, 2025

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Whether you own a bustling hair salon or a hot new bakery, you need business insurance that can keep up with your evolving needs. With flexible coverage options from TV insurance, you only pay for what you need. TD, ready for you. This real estate program, they do like a $40,000 fee, and I lost more than $300,000. I'm trying to get my money back for the program that you lied me into, the deal that you caused me to lose, and now there's an SEC investigation right and the SEC says hey will you sit down with us and go over all of this yeah I came across an ad I don't remember if it was on Facebook or email or what it was

but it was for this real estate program they do like a free one day class come to this free one day class you know so I didn't even really understand what it was about but I was like in that mode of like okay something's got to change so i went to the one day class at some hotel and what they say is okay you will pay a thousand dollars for this three day class and will teach you everything you need to know about how to buy apartments so i was like okay and they say you don't need your own money to buy apartments i'm like all right okay so i was intrigued it seemed kind of far-fetched but they do a really, really good job of pitching it. One thing I'll say about this whole program is the sales people are really, really great at their jobs. So how many people were at the

seminar? I would say there was about 50. I mean, is this like a Hilton or is this like a Motel 6? I mean, is this like a high, like, is it like a night, this is like a nice, like you walked in and said, hey, this is. It wasn't that nice of a hotel. you know you've been you know you've been to them like you'll go in one place and you're like they spent some money on this like there's some money behind this and then other ones you go to and you're like oh wow this is yeah this is pretty bad so i decided to pay for the three day class and that was at a okay mediocre place in garden city which is part of boise but i decided to go ahead and pay for the three day class you know i was just in that place in like

life where it's like, I'm going to do something. Something's got to give, you know, for me and my kids. So I decided to go ahead and do it. And they're telling you, you're going to learn everything in three days. How many people were in that class? Probably about 50. Yeah, 40 or 50 people. So, so yeah, they give you this book. They're doing this presentation. You know, there's a lot of hype to it, a lot of excitement, and, you know, you're feeling really excited, too. And what I learned later on down the road was a lot of the things they were saying in that class weren't true. But you don't know it at the time because this aspect of real estate, what it is, what

they're telling you about is called syndication, so where you're pooling money together from investors to buy apartments. And they're telling you, you know, there's an acquisition fee. That's how you get paid. That's how you make money. So they're teaching you there's just kind of like the Grant Cardone. Exactly. You get a bunch of investors that dump money into a fund.

You buy the properties. Right. And then they're supposed to get a dividend when they start making money. Exactly. It's, yeah, it is the same thing he's teaching, which I had never heard a Grant Cardone at the time. So they're teaching you. There's general partners, which, are the active investors, the people that are going to buy the apartments, do the rehab work.

Manage it. Yeah, do the asset management. And then there's limited partners. And those are going to be the passive investors. You're going to pool their money together. So you get a loan and then you use the investors money for the rest of it to make up the rest of the money for the purchase price, for the rehab, for your acquisition fee. whatever, closing costs, whatever. So the investors end up paying for everything. So if it's, so if the property you're buying is $5 million and the bank says we'll lend you

$3 million, because on a commercial loan, they don't really care where the down payment comes from as long as they're not lending too much money. Like if they were lending 95%, they'd be like, oh, no, no, no, we know what I need to know exactly where all the down payment money is who's going to manage it. But if they're putting down 60% loan to balance, value $3 million on a $5 million purchase. They're putting down $3 million. They can't lose. Like if it goes under, the bank's getting their money back.

Everybody else might lose their money, but the bank's going to get their money back. So you're saying that you're saying that you've got the, what you call them, primary? General partners. So the general partners are putting up whatever, a million. And then the next millions coming from limited partners. The limited partners have no say in anything, though. They're giving you like, here's 20 grand. here's 40 grand here's five grand and they're going to get a percentage on whatever that

property ends up yielding after the rehab after it's renovated after it's occupied after everybody gets paid whatever profit they get a little piece of that usually around what they say is usually around the end of the third quarter is when investors should start getting some kind of distribution because it takes time yeah a little a little bit of time to you you know, get the rehab going and everything. But yeah, you've got the loan and then the investor's money. And what I didn't know at the time from this class is one of the big things that drew people into this particular program, and this program is called the

multifamily mindset, these programs go from state to state, city to city every single weekend selling these programs, is one of the big sales pitches for this particular program is they're saying general partners get a 5% acquisition fee and it's right off the bat right when you close so um the lending process though for these commercial loans the general partners have to be able to qualify for you know whatever million dollar loan it is and it is quite a bit of paperwork quite a bit of proof that you can that you have the net worth of that loan but the lenders understand okay this is a syndication process they understand that they're raising the money so they don't expect them to have it all like at that point in time basically

well it's the underwriting guidelines are more laxed because they're putting that because the bank is in first position and they're not covering 90% of the purchase they're covering 60% right if you're if you're got lower over the last couple years well yeah they used to do like 75 to 80, but once we hit about 2021, it started going down to 60, 65, 70%. And so, you know, with this 5% acquisition fee that was drawing in the students, I didn't know until about a year ago that that is not a normal acquisition fee, that that's something that like the SEC considers a huge red flag. So people like me are being drawn into this program going, oh, wow, look at you can make a 5% acquisition fee right off the bat.

They're telling you certain roles that you would have in this program, like, oh, you can get paid just for sourcing the deals, like building relationships with brokers, or you can learn how to do the underwriting, or you can raise money. You can be a capital raiser, which that was a whole really interesting role, the whole capital raising thing because the SEC guidelines are you cannot, unless you have a broker-dealer license, you cannot just go and raise money and make a fee. And in these deals, they have a whole carve-out for capital raising. And they'll say, oh, but you also have to have another substantial role in the deal. And what I learned getting into it is most people don't. They're just getting paid to raise

money for the deals. And they don't have a substantial role. So they're like unlicensed brokers or financial advisor or whatever but they're supposed to be licensed they're just not exactly and it's happening every day so well so wait a minute everybody needs a good pair of jeans what I like about the perfect gene is that the moment you put them on they feel like sweatpants they don't ever pinch or bind up as a matter of fact they're super stretchy there's never any point where you you feel like they're they're binding up on you or they're tight or they're pinch you or anything like that They're comfortable in pretty much any position that you sit in. They're really great.

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Please support our channel and tell them we sent you. Fuck your khakis. Get the perfect genes. So let's go back to the 50 people. You paid $1,000. There's 50 people. They're pitching. It's three days.

They tell you they're going to teach you everything. Right. What happens during that? Did they teach you everything to acquire the product? Or they're really just trying to move you to the next level? They're moving you to the next step. And so these are some of the things they're saying. They're pulling you in with the 5% fee.

They're pulling you in with, oh, you can charge your investors the $40,000 program fee because then you find out, like, you're not really learning everything. There's a $40,000 program fee after that that they want you to buy into. And they're saying these things during the three days that you end up finding out aren't true at all. You can't charge your investors $40,000 on your first deal. They're saying, oh, you can just stick it in the closing statement, or you can put it into the underwriting template. And when you have an aspect of real estate like this that most people have never heard of,

people in mortgage realtors have never heard of syndication before. So it's like the easiest thing to deceive people. Yeah, well, yeah, they have no. I would say you can prove, you can convince anybody you're not. expert if you just have a little bit more knowledge than they do. Like, you don't need to have a whole bunch more, just a little bit, just enough for you to kind of go, what? I've never heard about that. Yeah, this is how it works. And even if it's not true, if it's not true, then it's even easier to convince them that you're an expert, especially on something they've never heard,

because they don't know anything about this. They don't know, they don't know to say, well, wait a minute. No, no. Now, they might if they were, if they were a licensed stock broker or a licensed financial advisor or they were licensed like a mortgage broker, they might be in a position to say, wait a minute, they've already taken a class. They might be like, wait a minute. But it was all legit. It was all true. It's just the way that they're going about it. Like, typically you would have a 1% acquisition fee. You know, there are capital raisers, but you need to have a more substantial role in the deal. So it's a very interesting thing because it's all legit stuff. it's just the way that they're the way they're going about it.

And then there were blatant lies as well. Like the whole, you can put $40,000. You can charge your investors on your first deal, $40,000. Well, how much is the investor giving, putting into the deal in order for me to charge $40,000? Or you're just saying I can just charge them, hey, $40,000 to allow you to be a part of this deal? No. And then they put in $10,000 and give me $40? Right.

Yeah. It kind of really doesn't make a lot of sense. So on these deals, they'll put, like, a minimum investment per person, like either $50,000 or $100,000. Even when they say there's a minimum $100,000 investment, a lot of times they'll let people put in less, like, $50,000 or $40,000. So they were telling the students, like, in general, you could just charge overall the whole, all the investors, just put it on to the closing statement, take $4,000. take $40,000 and reimburse yourself out of the closing statement. Does that make sense? So not like you're charging one investor.

You'd be charging all the investors. So if I've got five investors, each one of them is charging, is putting in the minimum $100,000 apiece. That's half a million dollars. Then when we go to closing, they put in the half a million dollars. And my broker fee, or whatever the, I'm sure they don't call it a broker fee. Right. Acquisition fee.

The acquisition fee is $40,000. And that fee goes to me. No, they're taking a 5% acquisition fee off of the purchase price. And then they're saying you can also take $40,000 back for your program fee. So if the purchase price is, they're putting it half a million. Purchase price is $200 million or $2 million. And I'm taking 5% of $2 million and $40,000. Yes, that's what they were saying.

That's a good deal for me. Plus a 1% loan guarantor fee. 1% loan guarantee what does that mean that means that you're charging your investors because you qualified for a loan i'm charging them 1% and the 5% and the 40 grand yeah okay how much are these investors expecting to get in return are they promised anything or they're just told or they're given a vague number like oh it could be up to no so they'll do like webinars and presentations and say like you'll get us a seven preff so seven percent return on your money and then at the end you'll two times your money you'll two and a half times your money 10x yeah 10x

exactly um or like a a 20 percent total return on your money so aside from the distributions, the small distributions, once the apartment complex sells, then out of those profits, the limited partners who will have a certain percentage of ownership. So the general partners, let's say have 30% ownership of the overall business. The limited partners will have 70% of the overall apartment complex business. This syndication is considered a business. So when you sell it at the end, the investors get their portion of the overall profit is what's supposed to happen. But throughout the time, they should be getting small distributions, if that makes sense. Right. Okay, so after the three days, you're being told there are all these different

avenues that you can make money. Right. Different roles in the syndication. Like, you could get paid for broker relations. You can get paid for asset management. You can get paid for underwriting. So they're basically hiring you to do this. Well, they're saying you're going to go out and start your own business doing this. And very few people succeed at it. Right. You know, so what I found was a lot of people tried to get into the capital raising because if you're going to start, let's say, with broker relations,

then you need to find somebody to do the underwriting or you have to learn how to do multiple roles. So a lot of the students coming. in, they'll just try to raise money because they can work on their own and then just get into a deal by bringing capital into the deal. So they go out and try and find people to put in 100,000, 200,000? Is that the- As much money as you possibly can, you know, because then you get a higher cut. So let's say they have 30% carved out of the acquisition fee for the capital raise. then as much money as they need to raise out of that 30% as much as you raise, you can take the whole thing if you can raise.

Let's say the capital raises $5 million. If you can raise the whole $5 million, you get paid the whole 30% of the cut for the acquisition fee because the acquisition fee is divided up. So if I raise $5 million from eight different people and I buy a piece of property, I'm buying it for $5 million? What am I, you're saying I'm getting, I'm raising $5 million.

What are we buying with that $5 million? We're buying something worth $5 million? No, no. When we were talking about before, you have the loan and then you have the investors money. Okay, so that's just like the down payment. So the $5 million is like a down payment on a. It's a down payment. It's your acquisition fee.

It's rehab costs. It's closing costs. So when people are putting these deals together, aside from the down payment, there's a number of costs you have to consider. Right. So the closing costs. Yeah, a closing cost. The rest of the money that the loan didn't cover, the acquisition fees, the closing costs, the rehab costs. How much budget did you make to rehab this apartment complex?

The rehab could be a million, two million, three million. Right. So I know up front, if I'm trying to buy a piece of property, we're buying the property for 10. $10 million and but we're going to need to the bank's going to lend seven million we need two million for the down payment three million for all of these other fee renovation fees all these other fees and my of course the closing cost and my fee's going to come out of that the extra three million so you're saying if you raise a whole five million dollars then you can so you know up front I need to raise five million yeah and the more of that five million I raise the more

money you get paid. Yeah, exactly. So a lot of students would try to do that. When I got into the program, what was unique about what I did was I decided to go the other route. So I had put together what I would call an acquisitions team. So I decided, you know, we're going to go the route of finding the deals and putting together like a business plan for them. So I found other students, mostly in my area, and I was building relationships with brokers. We said, okay, we're going to find properties in Texas in the Dallas and surrounding areas. So I was building relationships with brokers in the Dallas area, and then I had a guy that lived about two hours out of Boise,

who had, he drove to the class from his area and paid in, and he was underwriting, like making the business plan on this underwriting template. And then there was two 19-year-old guys who had paid into the program. Okay. Yeah, they also lived two hours away. And then another guy who had been in mortgage, and he was like, oh, I want to raise money. So I was like, okay, we have that role on the team. and then there was another guy that was 19 at the time who was really intelligent and he was

just a tenant in the duplex that I owned so he didn't buy into the program but he was getting into real estate so I put this team together so we had like broker relations underwriting a guy doing market research and then these two young guys that were getting comps for the apartment complex and so we had put this system together where we were getting deals from brokers, making business plans, and then you have to find what you call somebody to sponsor the deal. So somebody that can qualify for the loan, and then you come in under them, basically. So as a student, that's what they're saying. We will provide the sponsors for you so that you can come in and get started on these deals and then eventually build up your

portfolio so that you're the sponsor because that person who can run the show gets paid a cut of that acquisition fee just for being the person that can run the show. Okay. Yeah. So go ahead. Well, I was going to say, so you get to that point and now you've put together a team, do you end up buying any property, you find property, or you're finding properties putting together the business plan?

Are they buying into it? me or do any of these go through so i joined this program in june of 2021 by the beginning of august i had put a team together we were moving pretty fast we were finding all these properties running through them trying to find a sponsor and that's where we were kind of hitting our head on the wall like we just couldn't seem to find someone to sponsor the deals i thought they were going to provide the sponsor exactly that's what they say anyway well the thing is There are salespeople tell you that they're going to sponsor the deal. And then as soon as you pay the money for the program, they vanish.

The other thing you're paying for is expert mentorship. How much are you paying for the program? Well, they're... So far you paid $1,000 just to go to the class. The three-day class, right, where they're supposed to provide everything. Yeah, right. Right. But we already know that's not true.

Yeah, no, it wasn't true. It ends up being a $40,000 sales pitch. The program is $40,000, and it's supposed to provide expert mentorship, hold your hand through the deals, sponsorship, right? And then there's a one month worth of videos to teach you everything you need to know to be successful in these deals. So, yeah. So you paid the $40,000?

I ended up paying $27,000. What I ended up finding out a year later is one guy I worked with, paid $4,000, to the two young kids paid $18,000 together. One of the other guys paid $23,000. So me, as a single parent, they charged me more than every guy on my team. But they're telling everybody that you have to pay $40,000 for this program. They're making a deal. They're going to make a deal for you.

We're going to let you pay. I understand the situation you're in. We're not going to try and kill you here. We're going to let you pay $27,000 or $30. They tell you $30 and you say, I can't do it. Can you do 27? Okay. Right. Is that kind of what happens? That's what happens. The other interesting thing at these sales events is they ask people to open up their books, like their assets, their bank accounts. And they tell them, like, it's for your good. That way, we can help you do the best that

you can. We can help you see, like, you know, which investments you can get into. Like, it's for your good not for our good you know so that was another interesting thing i didn't really own anything at the time except for the duplex so it wasn't like i had i was making 16 dollars an hour i didn't have any books to open up but there's other people that did and they end up getting them to invest quite a bit of money into their deals so anyway yeah so i ended up buying into this program and um put this team together and what ends up happening is oh one important thing their expert mentors were like 20 to 25 year old kids hired off of indeed that was one thing i learned once i got in and so we're paying for this coaching i never had a coach right i never had anybody call me nothing so everybody's paying

and the sales people are saying their sponsor your deal sponsoring your deals everyone ditches you after you pay the money. There's no coach. If you call in and you get coaching, it's from like a 23-year-old that's never done real estate before. Is there an actual location to this place? Can you jump in your car and drive to an actual office

where you can say, hey, I want to talk to Bob? Their first office was in Utah. But no, I mean, you can't really. But that's where their office was. Their first office was in Utah. They're making sales all over the United States. every single weekend. Now their office is in Orlando.

Okay. Yeah, they've been in Orlando for a while. So, and I've heard people can go visit the office. I'm not sure exactly why they left Utah. There's rumors that it wasn't such a good exit, but I don't know the exact reason. So, yeah, they had hired a bunch of kids off of Indeed, and that's what people were paying $40,000 for. I don't think not one.

of their coaches had real estate experience in this particular type of real estate. But the thing with these programs is they're creating a community. So they have like a private Facebook group page. And right away, the owners are establishing like this authority that they really don't deserve. You know, they're in the sales thing, they're asking you to open your books. There's all this hype. It's kind of like you mentioned Grant Cardone, right? When you go to these events. It's kind of like going to a Tony Robbins event. Right. It's a lot of ra, raw, raw. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Totally. But not a ton of substance. Not a time, exactly. Not really a step to step step, step by step plan. It's more like, oh, no. John's going to come out on stage and

tell you how much money he's made with the program. He comes out and tells you, and you're like, wow, Bill comes out and tells you how much he's going to. And if you buy these tapes, then this. And if you buy this and if you sign up for this, he signed up, Bill was doing horrible. and then he signed up for this and he got a free he got the mentorship and the mentor helped him and then bill tells you about how he found a property and the guy helped him structure it and he bought it for a million dollars and put almost no money down and then he sold the property two years later for two point five million he pocketed a million dollars and now he's a big shot he's in the middle of four more properties and it's all because of this mentorship and you're ready

to you're ready to run up your credit cards and give them as much money as you can because damn it you could be bill too yeah Yeah. I'd love, I could run one of these. I could run one of these. Yeah, you definitely think. They were really good at it, man. But at the end of it, you walk out of their thinking, yes.

Oh, yeah. But in reality, you're like, I don't have one clue as to how to start. Oh, yeah, nobody did. Well, the mentorship, he'll know. The mentors, he'll know. Absolutely. The mentor will know. I need to pay that fee. Right.

And they're also sharing their success. So there was three owners, one guy, Tyler Devereaux, who's definitely the face and when you watch this guy's ads he lives in maui he's got his shirt off he's surfing you know he's he's actually a great speaker he's a really good motivational speaker there was right right there was another guy ryan woolly who was supposed to be this you know great accountant great underwriter and then another guy taught my lar that we know we never really saw he was kind of i didn't even know there was a third owner for the longest time so um yeah they kind of all had their little roles. But you, Tyler, there was one month worth of videos, and it was

Tyler doing the videos. And this guy just had a way of making you feel like you were the best of friends. So these one month videos that they give you to teach you how to do this whole thing, the first week is about mindset. Right. This is what I've learned about these types of things, because after the fact you go back and you're like, I'm going to learn everything that I need to know about programs, scams, everything else. You want to know after something happens to you. The one day to the three day to the sale is such a typical structure. You don't know that getting into something like this.

You're not like, oh, let me go study this ahead of time. Once something happens to you, then you might go back. But this is a very typical sales structure. I had no idea. So in his videos, they're talking about mindset. and then they've got this private Facebook group where they're monitoring and controlling the environment. And if anything negative comes up, that person gets bashed on there.

I mean, like, attacked pretty much, you know, or it gets deleted or something like that. So there's this whole controlled environment where nobody's saying anything. And everybody knows, like, you don't really have a coach. They're like 20 to 25 year olds. And everyone's going, what did I pay 40 grand? for but nobody's saying anything and then the part so when i got in i look say anything they bash you yeah oh yeah they bash you because i mean that's the um the grant cardone west watson um you know these guys that they sell these programs the moment you say hey listen man i've done everything you told me to do

and i'm not making any money they immediately say it's because you're a loser because you're the fuck up you don't know what you're doing you're a screw up you're doing it wrong you're the and everybody else bat jumps on the bandwagon and bashes you and then you typically that guy typically goes away yeah and they don't give him his money back they just call him a bunch of names tell him he's it's because everybody bob made a bunch of money bob's no better than you no they didn't or maybe bob it's not even true you're not following the program and then they then that guy gets upset and he goes away, and you just get to keep his 27,000 or 40 grand or whatever it is. And, you know, I was thinking when you were saying earlier that, you know, like the guy,

the main guy, the front man, like, you know, he's usually typically super charismatic, good looking, looks successful, you know, they tried that with like a fat, poor, ugly guy. But, you know, con men eventually realized like that, that's, this isn't the way to go. We can't have the fat, ugly guy with no money go out here. We need to get a good, a well-spoken. clean cut rich guy that's the guy that's why they do that you have to see the other partners and then you'll know why they picked him out of the three this is the guy you guys you can't be on camera exactly well the other one was a terrible speaker too well I was wondering I'm thinking the one

guy and then there I'm thinking like the one guy you never hear about that's really the fall guy you know what I'm saying that's the guy if it all comes down they're going to be like well Todd is the one who is behind the whole thing, but really there's like, is no Todd. He didn't end up. He didn't end up being it though. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Surprisingly. So, it's good to have a fall guy's all I'm saying. It's like, oh, there's, there's one,

even though there's not a fall quite yet. Right. They're trying to make one guy the fall guy for sure. So around, I would say October or maybe November, they used to do these group calls. like Zoom calls, right? And what I noticed, so when I got into the private Facebook group,

and this thing was growing insanely, there was probably 80 people in the private Facebook group. Next thing, I know there's 1,000. Next thing I know there's 2,000. I mean, it was just growing so fast. So we're doing these Zoom calls. There's like 100 people. The next year there's 1,000, you know, just growing.

Next year? Well, I don't know. I was just making that up. But I'm saying it was just growing really quickly. So it was about November. I was on one of the weekly Zoom calls. And one of the guys that hosted them was like, oh, you know, Ryan Woolley, one of the owners, wants to mentor students. And give me a call tomorrow.

We'll set that up. And so we are sitting here hitting our heads on the wall. Like we have no sponsor. We have this system. I was building relationships with brokers in Texas. You know, we're getting properties to underwrite and see if the numbers work out. And so I go, okay, cool. So I call in, and then we start meeting with Ryan Woolley, one of the owners.

And what he ends up doing is connecting us with his partner, because they were buying apartments with this other couple. And this couple, they had experience in the asset management and the rehab. Their names were Lisa and Greg Parrish. And then Ryan and Tyler, not Todd, but those two, they were buying apartments with them. So Ryan and Tyler would raise money, and Lisa and Greg would fix up the property and make sure they were being managed properly. And before the program and before COVID, they had done a number of properties from my understanding and what I saw, and they also used it to advertise the program very successfully.

And I think part of it was the time, the low interest rate, the high flips of the properties, let's say, 2016 to 2019 in that timeline, right? They had bought some apartment complexes and flipped them pretty quickly and got high returns. So they used those numbers as well to sell the program. Right. So the other thing was, is they were buying these properties where Lisa and Greg lived. So they were there. They were able to manage them, oversee them, and they had the experience. Then they start the program, so they're going all over the country.

And anyway, so we get connected to Lisa Parrish. She actually came to my team because she had two sons that were the same age as those three young guys on my team. I'm all about productivity, feeling energized, and staying strong, no matter how old I get. But let's face it, aging can slow you down. That's why I started taking qualia senilitic. As we get older, our bodies pick up these things called senescent cells or zombie cells that can make you feel stiff, tired, and achy. These cells take up space and suck nutrients from the healthy cells we need.

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Trust me, your future self will thank you and thank you to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode. And was like, hey, you know, I want to work with you. My kids are this age. I really like your guys's vibe. And since I was like the only person in the whole program that had put together that kind of team, I was becoming very popular. and the coaches who didn't have experience were sending the students to me to coach.

I wasn't getting paid. I was going to say, are you charging to be paid? No. Okay. No. And I was just like, okay, you know, but I was like loving that I found something. I'm like, man, I'm actually good at this. You know, I had all these crappy $16 an hour jobs.

And then, you know, I'm like, the only thing I was teaching people was how to put a team together and the guys I was working with had put together these processes and that was it I wasn't trying to teach people how and anything about buying apartments I was no expert in apartments that's what I was paid paying people to teach me right had you but at this point had you found an apartment complex and closed on it yet no so with Ryan we were starting to meet up once a week like on Zoom with Ryan Woolley, one of the owners. Okay. Yeah, not the face of the company, the accountant.

So, yeah, and then like I said, his partner, Lisa, approached us with her son and was like, yeah, this seems like a great fit. We'll sponsor a deal for you. So, yeah, we got on Zoom with Lisa and Greg. Oh, yeah. Nice. We got a sponsor. Okay, not only that, but they had some advanced training videos in their like what

they called the path it's where all their videos were right and they were done by lisa parrish so lisa would go to the three-day classes and just kind of hang out and talk to the students her one of her sons would go with her too so although i don't believe she was paid by the program she was definitely involved she did training videos for them she went to three-day class she says in a podcast that she did she was mentoring the students which is definitely the position we ended up in, you know. So anyway, we had found a property in Waco through a broker that I had met. It was a 172 unit property in Waco and old, 1973, but, you know, that's what we thought

we were supposed to go get, a property that you rehab and fix up and sell. Ended up being a real dump, man. I'm going to say they're not selling. they're not selling brand new perfect properties at a discount. You know what I'm saying? Like you have to find one that's older that needs a rehab like that to get a deal. Right, right. So yeah, this was the beginning of 2022 when we started the process for this Waco property,

buying this Waco property. So Ryan Wully at that time also said, oh yeah, we're going to hop on board with this property as well. So it was Lisa and Greg, and then Ryan and Tyler, and at the time, Tyler's sister was working there doing what they called investor relations, so taking money from investors, and then there was another female working there at the time. So as we're getting into this, you know, there's presentations being done to raise money. It was going to be an $8 million raise, and the purchase price was $16.3 million. for this property. So, man, like, as a new student coming in, I was the only person who had put this type

of team together, were getting this huge property for our first deal. Like, it was just like, oh, my God, I just went from the shit life, struggling parent to this is amazing, you know. Also, at the same time, they did their first yearly event at that time. And so they asked me to speak on a panel. And so I was on the stage, twice, I want to say. And it was just crazy because, like I said, the program was growing insanely. So we were in Vegas for that event at the Paris.

I think it was called the Paris Hotel. And so me and my team are there. And like, I'm trying to walk through the hotel and all these students are like stopping me. Like, how did you do it? How did you do it? You know? And so it was just kind of like this. Right.

But you haven't done anything yet. You just have the deal. Right. Okay. Yeah, it was a real trip. It was a real trip. It made me realize at the time how people make money like that. Yeah.

Because and how some of the students later on down the road took advantage of other students because you know what? I could have done the same thing at the time. What did I know? Their videos didn't even teach you that much. Oh, here's how you make a broker call. Okay. I'm great with people.

I didn't need your crap to learn how to make. a broker call. I was building relationships with brokers in Texas, genuine friendships. So, you know, there wasn't really anything they were teaching you, not SEC, you know, guidelines, not PPMs with private placement memorandums, not operating agreements. I mean, they're not teaching you any real substantial stuff that once you get into the deal and you don't understand, you're going to be royally screwed. They're not teaching you anything substantial. Probably intentionally. I don't know. Anyway, so we start the whole process to buy this deal. And there's stuff looking back now. Like, I wasn't really involved in any of the conversations with the brokers, which was my broker.

And then, you know, they have investor portals and different things that they're using. And we weren't really being mentored at all. But you're thinking, this whole time you're thinking like, okay, well, I'm not really learning anything, but we have this community. Oh, you know, they're going to have our back. And then I'm getting into a deal and you're thinking, well, I'm supposed to get mentored through the deal. Okay. And I'm in a deal with the owner. So this is my opportunity to learn. Right. It didn't happen like that at all. So we get into the deal. We have like a text, a text group chat where we're just hearing about things here and there. And at first, the occupancy, you know, was going up. It seemed fine at first. Lisa Parrish was... Wait a minute. Did you close the deal? Oh, yes. Sorry. So they did end up raising,

I've seen different amounts. So I've seen 8.4 million. I've seen 8.2 million. I've seen 8.2 million. Last I heard, it was an $8.1 million raise. And then recently in a group chat, Lisa said they raised $7.9 million. So there's been all these different numbers I've seen through text, emails, things like that. It was a $12.375 million loan we got on this deal. You bought it for 16. 16.3. You're supposed to raise 8.

You feel like you raised roughly. Somewhere around $8 million, right? They borrowed 12 for the rehab. So did they close on the whole deal? We closed on the deal. Okay. Did you get paid? I got paid some money, yeah.

So what was interesting? Was it what you thought it was going to be? Yeah, yeah, it was what I thought it was going to be. One thing that was interesting, though, was so you have these loan guarantors like Tyler Devereaux, Lisa and Greg Parrish were on the loan. Well, as a student, I had. put some of the upfront money in because people have to front

the money for lawyers' fees, earnest money, and whatnot. And then they can get it back from the investors once they raise it. Okay? So I had up front $50,000 into the lawyer's fees, earnest money, whatever

it was, right? So they told us you build your portfolio by getting on these loans. So I was like, okay, well, I put upfront costs when none of my teammates did so I want to be on the loan so I can build my portfolio so I did not qualify for the loan at all I mean obviously I was I wasn't an accredited investor I was making very little money but they let me go on the loan with the rest of them

because they qualified for the loan so I was on the loan and then I ended up putting my $50,000 into the property as a limited partner so I I was a general partner, a limited partner, and a loan guarantor. For a limited time at McDonald's, enjoy the tasty breakfast trio. Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin or McGrittles with a hash brown and a small iced coffee for five bucks plus tax. Available until 11 a.m. at participating McDonald's restaurants. Price excludes flavored iced coffee and delivery. Book club on Monday.

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eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Kind of played every single role because of all the videos they did with Lisa Parrish and their track record of the properties that they did in North Carolina that were super highly successful. So, you know, you're seeing this track record of success, you're being told you're going to be mentored, all these different things. So we closed on the property in July of 2022. And at the time, it seemed like it was going pretty well. Real quick. Okay. Did you get your 50,000 back? No.

How much money did you make? Well, that all just happened in December. That all just happened in December of this last year. The property foreclosed, so that comes. I understand that, I understand that. But when you closed, you thought you were going to get a certain amount of money. Oh, yeah. I got a little, I got a portion of that 5% acquisition fee.

Okay. Was it enough to cover the 50,000 that you put in? No. No, not even. So you're in the hole. Yeah. After the closing. Yeah, like $20,000.

Okay, so go ahead, I'm sorry. So at the beginning, it seemed like things were going pretty well from what I could tell. One thing I didn't know, the lenders took me off the email. I didn't know this until recently, and the property management took me off the emails. I did not know that. So I'm a new student. I don't really know anything. I'm supposed to be being mentored, and I'm thinking everything.

going along fine, and it seemed to be for a few months. So I didn't know there was emails about liens. You know, we weren't paying people doing work. I didn't know that they had the roofs replaced and the people totally screwed them up. There was a bunch of stuff I didn't know for the longest time. What I did notice, though, was pretty much all the communication through the text messages had stopped. There wasn't really much communication going on. Also, from day, day one with this whole process, Tyler Devereaux had no involvement, and he was one of the managers of the syndication. There was two managers, Greg Parrish and Tyler DeVro, of this, what they call a business, right? The syndication is a business. Those two guys had no involvement, no communication the whole entire time. Lisa Parrish, Ryan Woolley, very little involvement. And so I was, just kind of like, okay, we just paid all this money to get mentored. And where are these people? There was very little communication. And then it just kind of halted. So time's going on.

And I had built a friendship with Lisa, or kind of so I thought. So I was communicating with her regularly. And then these people were all supposed to be the experts. So me and my teammates are assuming this property is being properly managed, things are being done. And at the beginning of 2023, we go to try to buy a second property. And we really didn't have any communication with Tyler and Ryan. Like we weren't friends with them like I was with Lisa. You know, my teammates that were young had become friends with Lisa and Greg's sons. So we were kind of in regular communication.

communication with them. We had been to their house, different stuff like that, but not the other guys. They were just the owners of the program. And then we got into a deal with them. So we were going to get into a second property, which was a $15.5 million property with Lisa and Greg. And there was a lady who was on our first deal named Sarah Sullivan. And I didn't really know anything about her. And Lisa had asked her to raise the money for the second deal. So we're going into 2023 thinking, oh, we're buying this property. I mean, gosh, how much better can things get? You know, I had all this struggle. I found my thing. I'm doing great. And like I had said before, I had students coming to me every day.

They were sending their students to me to coach. The other thing that had happened from that Waco deal was, Ryan Woolley said, hey, when you guys go down to Waco for the closing, go have a giant check made and take a picture with it and use it for your social media. Like put the name of the apartment complex, put the acquisition fee amount, which, by the way, the acquisition fee amount was $815,000 total for that whole thing, 5% of $16.3 million. Right. So we go, we have this huge check made, and we take these pictures, me and my team, Lisa and Greg, the property managers, at the Waco property we bought with this huge check.

Well, their salespeople took that picture and we're using it at their sales event, like kind of from that point forward. Okay, so real quick, you keep saying you're doing great. You're in the hole. You haven't been paid. You've put together a team of people that aren't being paid. You've forked out 50 grand for upfront fees. Right. These other people that are mentoring you, that are qualifying for the loan and everything else,

haven't put up a dime. That doesn't sound to me like you're doing great at all. Well, they paid into... And you closed on it. Got a check. Still didn't recoup your original investment. You've been working on this over a year. Yeah.

And you haven't, you're in the whole. You're not doing great. Yeah. I don't know how you're, what you're about to say, but I promise you at the end of whatever you're about to say, I still am going to think you're not doing great. Right. Why didn't you think to yourself? I understand, like I get that we go to these seminars, people are coming up to me.

Like they respect me. They're asking my advice. I'm an authority. I'm being asked to talk on stage. All of that is a great feeling. But in the end, I'm in the hole. Well, I could have taken the $50,000 back. I didn't have to put it into the deal.

So I could have, when we closed and they got the investors' money, I could have taken the money I put up front for the lawyer's fees and the earnest money back and then kept my acquisition fees. So I would have made about $30,000, basically. Well, like I said before, I had seen like this, these people's track record and so I chose I chose to invest the money thinking so you're rolling it over yeah into the next deal right because right a couple months prior to that is when I sold the duplex okay yeah and I made you know that money that I was going to invest in other duplexes but I had

altered my route and like oh this is going so great you know so I chose to invest that $50,000 in Waco. Okay. Yeah. So you're just going to, you're going to continue to run with it thinking at some point. It's going great. It's going to pay off. And you don't really need the money right now. You've got 100 grand or so. Yeah. I didn't need it at the time. And when Waco sells, I should have gotten, you know, like doubled that money. Right. So we in three to five years. So yeah. And then, you know, I made some acquisition fee. And then when I do the next property, I'm going to make an acquisition fee. And we were on track to do that. like at least one property a year, and we were looking to build up to do a couple properties a year. And we were thinking we were building relationships with all these sponsors that seemed to be solid people at the time. Not so much what I learned, you know, kind of as time was going on. Okay. So what happened with the next deal? So with the next deal, we turn in like our offer for this $15.5 million deal. I was on the purchase and sale agreement. Lisa and Greg were on the purchase and sale agreement. And they suggested like, oh, so we can win this bid, let's put $100,000

hard. So, you know, again, taking the advice of the mentors, I was like, okay, so I put in a portion of that money, that earnest money, which went hard, meaning you can't get it back, like pretty much right away. And this was the advice of, you know, people they're suggesting are mentoring, the sponsors. And then they have the second event, which is called peak partnership. Their once yearly event, the multifamily mindsets, once yearly event. Actually, they have it coming up again next month. So cool. Yeah. In Orlando? Yeah. We'll have to go by. Yeah. So we're at this event. And again, like, Like, you know, I think I was on the stage three times at that event.

You know, they had the students vote for, oh, like, let's do a vote for who's the most helpful person in the network. Oh, guess who won that award? I did. So I'm on the stage. So they have a luau at this event. So I met the luau and Todd. I've only met Todd a couple times. He always seems super nice.

He comes up to me. He's like, Fia, I'm so sorry. I'm like, okay. He's like, I'm so sorry that Ryan and Tyler took Sarah out of your deal. This was the lady that was supposed to raise this giant amount of money for our second deal. Right. And, you know, I'm like, okay, what's happening? And I'm like, okay, I didn't understand what was going on.

Well, so I'm at this event. We don't have anybody to raise the money for a $15.5 million. deal at this point and it's just you know people everywhere activity going on constantly i couldn't really talk to ryan or tyler there at that event because they're just all over the place so i am running around like a crazy person the whole event trying to find somebody else capable of raising that much money that had experience so we get connected to another sponsor that they are promoting because they're having calls where they're promoting sponsors to their students. And you would think there would be some kind of accountability if this is what people are

paying for. You're saying you're paying money for these people to sponsor your deals, right? Right. So we find this guy, an older guy in his 60s, who, you know, kind of advertised his Christianity and being a recovered addict and built houses in Mexico. all this stuff. And he seemed like a really awesome guy to come in, work with Lisa and Greg, and sponsor and be in charge of the money raise for this second deal. And this guy told us like three times, I can do this with my eyes closed. I don't know if that should have been a red flag to have

somebody say that. But, you know, he was like, yeah, I'm in. You know, he went over the underwriting multiple times. He talked to the property management company. to make sure, like, hey, do you think this business plan is going to work? Like, before I come all in on this, do you think this is going to work? The property management company that we were using for the Waco deal, because this was in Arlington, Texas. So we're like, okay, okay, we got somebody. And I'm just, like, running around like a mad person.

So we got someone that was supposedly going to raise the money and be in charge of the money raise. Well, he just, he gets on a plane with his wife to Egypt for a one and a half month vacation. We hit our closing date, which as you know, being in mortgages, I'm sure, you have to pay money to extend that date. Right. So you, you say you're going to raise 10.5 million dollars. We had a huge money raise for this deal and you get on a plane for a month and a half. So once we hit that date, I had to put more money in. Lisa had also put money in. He had also put money in. More money you don't get back. Yeah. Right. Yeah, to extend for the broker, the seller, to extend out the closing date. So he comes back and, you know, we start doing webinars for this deal

for investors. And he starts bringing in random students that have no experience. And I'm like thinking, wait a minute. How are we going to raise this? huge amount of money, you should be bringing in people with experience, right? And he said he also was going to raise a bunch of money. And he's traveling here and he's traveling there. I went on his Facebook page and made a timeline of where he was every freaking day. He was like out of town doing something this whole time. So I'm like having to go around for months and months and months and try to figure out how who I'm going to find that's capable of raising all this money because there's going the rest of my money into this deal and I'm not working a job

I'm how I got offered from a wealth management company locally when we went to pitch this deal to them and see if they had people that could partner with us the guy was like oh hey do you want to come to work for me. I'll pay you $60,000 a year. I'll pay for you to get licensed and all this stuff. I couldn't take that job because I was losing all my money in this deal. So for all these months, he's dumping random students on us and we're like losing this deal. So anyway, it gets all extended out until October and we lose the deal. And I lose my money. And he's just traveling around all over the place. Well, about that time,

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There was a guy, so there was a gas leak on the Waco property for two months, and nobody was really communicating about the property, and there's a guy that is going to sue us because he has brain. damage. Whoa. Yeah. I also learned that Ryan and Tyler's deals, a lot of them were doing very poorly and that this Waco property was one of seven properties that was in a fund, a $30 million fund that they had. It was their first fund. And I didn't know that. None of us knew that our property was in this $30 million fund, and the fund is starting to fail. Like, I knew our property wasn't really being managed because of the lack of communication.

Right. And so I was kind of assuming the same thing was happening with pretty much all those properties. So I'm like, okay, that's when I start looking back on everything that seemed not quite right, but I was new and I didn't know. Like, for example, after we closed our deal in July, that December, I randomly found an ad with a link on Facebook to invest in our deal. And we had already closed fully funded. So I was like, okay, what are they doing with this money?

Right. Why are they still raising money on a deal that closed? Right. You can't invest in anymore. Exactly. The other thing was they had gotten $900,000 taken off of the purchase price like a month before we closed. They still charged the investors the higher the acquisition fee off of the higher price. Right.

I was like, okay, why are you doing that? They were like, oh, it's a credit, no big deal. I mean, there was just these things along the way that didn't seem right, but I was a student. I was like, okay, and then it just kind of all started unraveling. So they had other properties that were going down. And I kind of started going, okay, well, is that why they took Sarah out of our deal because they needed her to go raise money and save these other deals? You know, once we lost that deal, we even tried to sue the seller,

who was another big wig program owner guy in Texas. ironically selling the deal yeah he's he's actually been in many many articles for not so above board things but pretty very well-known guy actually um once that didn't close and i lost that money i was like okay this this just isn't right you know you're promoting the sponsor that didn't do his job they're getting getting me into these situations where i could be legally held liable. I mean, you know, I find out about the guy that has brain damage at some point. There's the lawsuit that could happen with the seller.

And you're playing me like a pawn. Like you take this lady out of my deal, kind of shuffling people around, you know. And at that point, I start calling attorneys because these two, the sponsors, they made a decision, oh, I forgot this. So in August, the two people that the company promoted, Lisa and then this other guy, they made a decision to quit raising money. And we had just paid for another extension until October. So me and Lisa are on the PSA, not this other guy.

They have a meeting without me. I'm doing all this work trying to raise money while they're dumping students on me. Like, oh, this lady can raise money. How about her? Holding webinars, I know nothing about doing. I'm just working, working, working, trying to save my money, constantly working. And they have a little meeting and decide we're not going to raise money anymore. And I'm like, okay, they're like, we're going to go find someone to assign contract to.

Well, they didn't mean we. they meant you, you are going to go find someone to assign contract to you. Because at that point, nobody was doing anything except for me. Like even my teammates had pretty much bailed out on the whole thing. And they didn't have money involved to lose, only I did. Right, but they're working for nothing. Like they're bailing out because it's been a year and change and they haven't really made any money thinking money's coming their way.

But every deal, they're in the hole. Well, they weren't in the hole because they didn't put any money in. So, I mean, they paid- Are they being paid? They got paid part of the acquisition fee on Waco. Okay. Yeah. So they made a little bit of money, but- Yeah, they made a little bit of money.

So, yeah, they decide we're going to quit with the raise. And I'm like going, okay, so I'm on the PSA with Lisa and her and this guy make a decision. And they get on a Zoom call and they say it to me and like all these random students that they brought in to raise money. And I was just pissed because. it was like, I'm doing all this work. I'm going to lose my money. And now you two go and make a decision without me when my name's on the purchase and sale agreement. Like, I was just so

dumbfounded the whole time how any of this stuff could have been legal. It was just crazy to me. And it got even crazier as time went on. So at the end of that, I decided to go talk to attorneys and see like, okay, these guys don't do their jobs at all. And then they make this decision. without me that cost me my money. So can I hire an attorney and get my money back, basically? Well, as I'm going and talking to attorneys, one of them says at one point, how did you get into this whole thing in the first place? Right. And so, no, he goes, no, go back. How did you get into this in the first place? Well, I paid for this. He goes, whoa, I want you to write this all down. You got into it through a program, and I was like, yeah, so he has me write down everything that happened.

And it was at that point when attorneys would start to listen to me because they say, like, you're fraudulently induced through a program and then into the first deal, and all this stuff is leading up to where you end up. That's what the attorneys started to tell me, because at first I was just approaching them about the one deal, not how. how I got brought in, not all the stuff they were telling me that they were going to do, not that they bring me into this first deal, none of that stuff. So I had a couple of attorneys tell me like, oh, okay, yeah, well, in that case, I guess, you know, we'll represent you, see if we can settle out of court. So I ended up hiring one guy who was pretty pricey, and then he brings in a partner and doesn't really explain to me. like, oh, you're going to be paying all this money for the two of us.

And we're going to have all these discussions that you're going to pay for just to write some demand letters. So they don't read my documents. They have a bunch of discussions they charge me for. We're supposed to get on a Zoom call. So I put a post out on Facebook that Ryan Woolley saw, and he text message my attorneys right away and said, we'll settle with her through the multifamily mindset. like he said that in a text message and then my attorney says okay well we'll meet up so they have a

short 15 minute conversation and then we're supposed to get on a zoom call that next week me and my attorney is him and his attorneys well for some reason nobody tells me anything and they just get on a phone call with him without me okay and i'm like why did that happen They were like, oh, that's normal. Okay. And then everything kind of went downhill from there. I didn't know they had multiple conversations with him. And at the end, they were having me talk to him.

And anyway, in my opinion, I just felt like the whole thing was a really bad idea, the way that it was dealt with. And obviously, I didn't end up getting any of my money back, not for the program, not for the things that had happened. And the Waco property had started, like, kind of being on the verge of foreclosure. So after two years of hardly any communication with any of the property owners, they come back together, this whole group of people, and that lady Sarah Sullivan was on that deal, too. They come back together and are like, we need to talk. So the other twist that happens during this time is Ryan decides he's going to sue Tyler and Todd.

So there's a lawsuit right now going on in Florida. He's saying basically in his lawsuit that Tyler was abusive to him. That, yeah, I guess that's what you would say. Tyler was emotionally and verbally abusive. These are two men? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

the owners of the program. He said that Todd had like $700,000 hiding in his house, and then Tyler and Todd come back. Anyway, it's been going back and forth. Tyler said allegedly, whatever the word is, actually harassed multiple students. And this whole thing's been going back and forth for over a year. I mean, this is a soap opera.

Absolutely. You need like quite a few episodes. If I was going to explain this whole thing, honestly it needs to be turned into a Netflix series really so so in this whole time I'm having students coming to me asking me how they can get their money back and nobody's saying anything nobody's saying anything there's a one review on bigger pockets by a guy named Zach harsh and that's it and then after yeah anyway so so are you so you start you start helping those students try and get their money back? You're trying to get your money back. Are you helping them

try and get their money back? I did. Okay. I did. They asked me like what they should do. I was like write in letters and they were like, well, what should I say? So I would tell them, well, if it was me, this is what I would say. And then they would come back to me with the response from the company and one of the owners, Todd would like text them, mostly Todd, sometimes Ryan. Tyler never. Tyler never got involved he was too busy going around putting on a show around the country you know but they would come back with the responses and i would be like okay well this is what i would say back and i helped quite a few people get their money back um people would come to me who put money into their deals and be like they would regret it man they would regret it so bad so i had one lady come to me

she had put her money into the program i did the same thing i said well this is what I would say. And then she goes, oh, I put X amount of dollars into one of their deals. I was like, okay, tell me how you got into it. She said, well, at their fast track event, which is one of their beginner events, so they do a three-day class and then this fast track event. So prefacing that, there's two different ways you can do what they call a regulation D, these regulation D exemption deals.

That's what these are, these investments that you do with no license. license. So one is a 506C deal, which you have to be accredited and you can publicly advertise. The other, you can take up to 35 non-accredited investors and you cannot publicly advertise. You have to have a substantial relationship with people. Just be friends or family. Right. Or substantial, whatever substantial means. If you know your neighbor for 10 years or whatever, right, well, they were public, they were advertising their 506B deals to brand new students on a regular basis. So she says, oh, I was at the fast track event. This sales guy pitched this deal. I was like, are you an accredited investor?

She said, no. So I look up the deal on the SEC website. It's a 506B deal. So I said, well, if it was me, I would go back to them and be like, hey, I don't know you. Yeah, I'm not an accredited investor? I don't know you. You just pitched this deal publicly to me. We don't have a substantial relationship. So she did. And Ryan Willey gave her her money back out of a different bank account. Right. Because you have to, you would have to tell all the investors that you let someone out of the deal. There would have to be paperwork done. To this day, this person still gets information on this deal. Because it appears that they're still a part of the deal when they've already got their money back. Exactly. So the investors that originally put in the money to have no idea she was

paid back. Right. Okay. Exactly. Um, so I mean, at, at what point, when do you get to the point where you're like, you're either going to sue or how does this move on to, um, any type of, like, do you ever go to law enforcement? Do you ever decide I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to hire these attorneys to sue? Yeah. So I hired the attorneys to settle out of court. And like I said, they were, they were talking to Ryan. They were telling me to talk to Ryan. Ryan kept saying he was going to get me a settlement. It was just very, like, bizarre behavior. Like, he would text me at night. If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night or all of the

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sure which ghost bed is right for you, check out their mattress quiz. You'll answer a few questions and get a personalized recommendation. Even better, our listeners can get 50% off site wide for a limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com slash Cox and use the code Cox at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com slash Cox with the code Cox at the checkout to save a walkie. being 50% off site wide. And, you know, it was, I would consider harassment. The things that were done, the things that were said. Meanwhile, these guys are fighting.

So we come back together for this Waco deal that's about to fail. We get on a Slack channel, a communication channel. And these two guys are fighting with each other on the Slack channel the whole time while all their investors are on the verge of losing their money. So at one point, I even called one of the attorneys involved, and I was like, listen, we come in as a student, there's 21-year-old kids on this Slack channel, three of them, because those guys who were 19 or like 21, 22, now, whatever it is, I'm on here, you know, I lost money, we're all on the verge of losing money. This is abusive. Like, we're on this Slack channel, and all these guys are doing is fighting while everybody is on the verge of losing. their money. Well, I get off the phone with her. She called Ryan Woolley. He called me and like

raged on me for like 20 minutes. This is one of the attorneys involved in the deal. One of your attorneys? Yeah. Yeah. Well, all of our attorneys because you have attorneys involved in these deals. Okay. So I'm expressing my concerns and trying to get my money back for all this stuff for the program that you lied me into. Right. The deal that you caused me to lose and now this mess of a situation with this Waco deal. It was a complete disaster. The lender told me, I have never seen a more neglected mismanaged property in all my years of lending. And then I'm on the loan. So I had been kicked off of all the emails. They ended up kicking me out of the Slack channel because at that point, since my attorneys got nowhere, I decided to go on

Facebook and start talking about everything they were doing about how their program they straight up lie at the three-day classes all these people at that point start commenting on my Facebook there's probably a good 400 comments on my Facebook once I started talking other students started sharing their stories one lady came to me and was like oh by the way so before me the owners told me and my family we're going to sponsor this deal for you put 200,000 earnest money in and then they backed out completely

and they lost $200,000 and I'm just sitting there going all this stuff was happening to people before me and they didn't say shit. Right. Nothing. And this is still happening. They're still selling the program.

So I'm on Facebook, I'm on TikTok. I did a bigger pockets review. My attorneys get nowhere. And it's been really interesting. So my attorneys at the end, I just end up paying them a certain amount of dollar and cut ties because it was just not a good situation. They tell me, well, go find other investors and partner up with them for a lawsuit. That's what they told me to do. So I'm having to go look for other investors. Well, I end up finding out that my property was in this fund, this Akahi fund, this $30 million fund, and those were the only people I met with some of the people in this fund. And I start talking to one guy, and Ryan finds out that I'm talking to these investors, and he

starts making up stories about me. He told them that I had also scammed money out of people, and I don't, just kind of a number of things about me. So it's very interesting when you get into these situations and people are starting to lose money, the manipulation tactics, the harassment. Ryan goes to the attorneys. And so you were talking about a fall guy. Mm-hmm.

What's happened is, is all the people involved in this deal have basically blamed these deals going down on, Tyler. That's like what's happening right now. So I got kicked out of all the communication for the deals. And Ryan has told the investors, this is all Tyler's fault. There was a number of people involved that put these deals together. We're supposed to be managing them. So how is it one person's fault that all these properties are starting to foreclose? Right. But that's what's happening. He tells the investor's personal stuff about. He's told him a number of rumors of personal things about him, which may or may not be true. But not only are these people, including a number of senior citizens that have their whole life savings involved in this fund that's failing, losing their money, but they have to listen to one of the owners, sit there and tell, like, gossip about their partner, which to me is just abusive behavior. They send in emails asking for profit and law statements, asking for bank statements, asking for these different things, and they don't give it to them. They don't reply to the emails, which according to different attorneys out there about these deals, that's not legal.

You're supposed to be business partners and give your partners all this information. Right. They're supposed to be transparency. Transparent. In the same way with me, being a general. partner, you are not supposed to kick a general partner out of communication. One of the biggest things that shocked me was the lender quit communicating with me. I'm on the loan and the lender kicked me out of the communication.

And then at the very end when we foreclosed, he had his attorney send me an email saying that they weren't going to communicate with me anymore. So I never got final documents on the foreclosure. Okay. The property management, I went to them to try to get. real financials because there was no real financials. There was just little pieces of paper bank statements that had things blacked out and different, no real bank statements. Even when my attorney is sent in demand letters or where did every cent relating to this deal go, they did not send it.

They refused. They ghosted my attorney or they wrote back and said she already has it, which wasn't true. So I went, to the property management to get the real financials, the guy told me on the phone, I will not give it to you. My name was on their reports that they were sending to the lenders, the financials and reports and stuff. And the guy said, I won't give it to you. And I was like, why? I'm on this business. I'm a part of this business. Well, you're not Lisa Parrish, so I'm not giving it to you. So I ended up having to write an email and put Lisa on it and put Lisa on it and put one of the attorneys on it and demand them and then I got him but like how did this happen how did

these outside companies end up having all these communications without me and kicking me out when I'm on the loan you see what I'm saying right I understand so what what did you do after the lawyers like at some point doesn't don't the authorities get involved well I reported to the attorney general in multiple states and so of other people. I went to the Idaho Department of Finance, which is supposed to be for investments. I talked to the supervisor there for like 45 minutes. You told me he wouldn't do anything about it. He was like, you can email me info, but I'm not going to do anything. Why? Did he say why? Too much. They had too many things going on and it wasn't a blatant like no property exists altogether. Right. Was it a blatant fraud?

Right. It wasn't like, oh, there's no property at all. Like I have too much on my plate to deal with something like this, basically. And then I did turn in, who else? Oh, the FTC, me and a number of students have reported to the FTC. And then a lot of the investors started turning in complaints to the SEC so but other than that I've just kind of had to fight and fight and fight and try to talk to attorneys and it's been very hard to get representation like I had an attorney come to me because I'm on social media speaking publicly and say all represent you and then we have a conversation he looks at my paperwork and he's like oh they put an arbitration clause in there so never mind that's too that's too much to deal with so it's just been

and, you know, one of those things where it's like just you trying to fight for yourself and the other people that are involved and put this out in the open because they're still making sales every weekend. Both of the owners have gone on to create new LLCs and buy new properties with new students. So they're just doing the same thing. You change your company name and you go do the exact same thing. How do you have the time for that, but you don't have the time to manage the properties right now that are going down the toilet. How does that work? Well, I mean, if they spent money managing those apartments, they would have to, they wouldn't

have the time to raise as much money. Right. And where their profit is raising the money. Right up front. So when they take those 5% and the 1% fees up front, they're getting paid for work they haven't even done yet. Right. And then why do you care that that failed for two years?

right yeah because there was like a bunch of stuff I didn't mention neither like that 5% acquisition fee they didn't put that on the closing statement so there was little things that I kind of had to like backtrack and and learn along the way like I saw this one guy's post he had done a post on Tyler Devereaux and he was like oh 5% acquisition fee what a some word for fraud so I was looking through the comments and one guy said oh I wonder what the SEC thinks of that. And then another guy says, oh, I want to see that closing statement. And I thought to myself, shit, I have the closing statement. So I go back and look at the closing statement for Waco. There's no 5% acquisition fee on that

closing statement. They put 1% on the closing statement for the lenders to see. Probably because 5% is illegal to charge a 5% fee. But they're using that on all their public advertisements on YouTube, on Facebook, on everything. So that's really

interesting. The other thing was with the lenders when I was looking through that, so you know how I told you it was around an $8 million raise, and these people can't keep track of shit. Every email says something different, but they told the lenders that we had $6.5 million in equity from investors. So that was another like big gap in the money when I started looking through everything. That's a big difference. Yeah, $8.2 to $6.5 million is a pretty big difference. And looking back on the lender emails, we were working with a lending broker at the beginning. And Lisa told the lending broker that all the loan guarantor, she said six or seven people were all going to be investing $50,000 in the property because they want to know that the general partners have skin in the game. So that stuff like

this doesn't happen and they didn't invest when I looked at the investor portal which luckily I copied and pasted onto a word document because they shut me out of the investor portal they did not have any of their own money invested in this Waco property so the owners of the program that bring me into the deal and their partners I put $50,000 in that I lost they had no money invested, and the other thing was, too, was they could have taken me off the loan before it foreclosed, and because I was on social media talking, they chose not to. So they let me get like a $12 million foreclosure for no reason. And I went to the loan, the lender is a number of times, too, and asked them to remove me, and they refused to remove me as well. So they said,

well, your partners can, and they wouldn't remove me. So, which is really interesting. interesting because Ryan kept going, keeps going around telling the investors that I have a personal vendetta against them, but who chose not to take their student that they used to advertise their program off of a loan? I mean, in my opinion, you guys should pay me a bunch of money for what you did, but to actually choose not to just remove me from a loan, that sounds like a pretty personal vendetta to me. Like there's an SEC investigation, right? At some point, the SEC comes in right and the SEC says hey will you sit down with us and go over all of this yeah so you and did you brought when did that happen not that long ago about a month probably

where where would that take place um just at my house so what they just came in with two agents or was it three agents was it who was there yeah just a phone call FBI and SEC okay and so how long Did you talk to them? You lay all this out over the course of an hour or two? Yeah, probably an hour and a half. Did you provide them with the documentation? Yeah, I still am. Yeah, there's other investors involved as well.

So the SEC is investigating, which probably takes a year or two, and then the FBI is sitting in on the phone call. And from my experience, the reason the FBI sits in on these phone calls or these meetings is because the SEC will come forward and they'll start. a civil lawsuit and they'll, they'll file a lawsuit against numerous people. And then, of course, if those people end up trying to fight the case, they'll typically go to trial, the civil trial. And during the civil trial, they end up divulging a bunch of things, right? They're subject to discovery. You get to go through all their stuff. They end up fighting an entire case. And even if they

win civilly, which doesn't sound like that's going to happen here, but, you know, know, I'm not a lawyer. So if they win or lose civilly, I've seen them lose, I've seen companies win the civil case and then the FBI brings a criminal case against them. And then, of course, then they're just doomed, you know, because the FBI doesn't indict anybody criminally that they don't already think they have a solid case at. And they got like a 97% conviction rating. So, and it just, but all of that.

takes a lot of time and just like just like you said they're continuing to to sell every weekend yeah what and bring new investors in from their students you know bring new students in and things of that nature which is very unfortunate what is the the total loss for you personally like an dollar amount do you know or can you say I can't okay okay um if you have a rough number? A couple hundred, a hundred thousand, around? More than that. Yeah. More than 300,000. Holy shit. Were you able to say, or can you say how many students you're able to get to kind of with a similar story? Because I know at one point you say you're trying to round up people that had similar experiences. There have been hundreds of people that have come to me asking me what to do.

I have seen probably 10,000 students go through the program on an ad they have for that peak partnership that they have coming up. They said that they've had over 50,000 students go through the program. Now, I know very well that they're advertising and their testimonies and what they do is not honest, the majority of the time. But if that was correct, 50,000 students times $40,000 in five years, that's pretty wild. Yeah. But yeah.

Even if they give you a discount. Yeah. Right. Oh, the other thing. I wonder how many people really pay the 40. It's probably quite a few. Quite a few. Quite a few.

One thing I didn't mention was after I joined, they had a guy start going around to the three-day class. I guess it's called Pathway selling credit cards. so people ended up in massive debt so they've convinced people to empty out their 401ks and then this guy would get people to buy like four or five credit cards so they would people would pay about eight to ten thousand dollars for four or five credit cards and what the salespeople that they call strategists would tell them is we will get you into a deal and get it closed in three months before that 30 percent or whatever percent interest hits So what were these people apply for a credit card? And the guy puts, they put their down, then they put their fee on the credit cards. Yes. Yeah. Whoever the guy is that's going around with them to all their three day sales events

called Pathway or something like that. So they're financing the $40,000. Yes. So they pay that guy like $8 to $10,000 and then have four or five credit cards. And the salespeople are there at the credit card table while the guy is making phone calls to get them approved telling them we will close you in a deal before this time is up and none of them do so they end up in massive debt after that and a lot of these testimonies or comments you could call it are on my Facebook page the other thing what's your Facebook page via Mosley okay well we'll put

the description yeah a lot of those comments are on the Facebook page um I got a text from one of their 20-ish-year-old employees after I went public. And she said how, well, they started doing renewals shortly after I joined because what they were telling us was Facebook for life, free events, membership for life. That's what they were saying. And then suddenly they're, oh, you've got to pay for renewals. And they're upping their costs and they're selling new things and all that. Well, what the young lady said to me was that she would tell them in meetings like,

hey, these people can't even afford the program to begin with. So we really shouldn't be doing this renewal thing. And that one of the program owners would say, well, you just have a fucked up mindset. You're fucked up in the head. And there's quite a few comments like that on my Facebook page as well. That was a comment that Tyler Devereaux made regularly to the 20-ish-year-old students. So, and I've taken a lot of the comments and read them in videos I've done where, you know, it is abusive. It is abusive behavior to be telling a 25-year-old girl, you have no grit, you're fucked up in the head, stuff like that.

So that has been on quite a few of the comments as well. Yeah. So what was, what's the last, like, communication you've had with the owners or what's like, or how long ago when you start speaking out, like they start reaching out to you? you like what what kind of communication has there been since you've been speaking out my last communication with was with ryan woolly because he was getting involved with me and my attorneys and then he was calling and texting me a whole lot which just kind of ceased um he was telling me and my attorney is like oh all partner up with a her because he had his lawsuit with tyler and, you know, kind of leading us to believe that he was the only one that was going to make this out-of-court settlement happen.

And the impression I got at the end was he was really just digging for information to see what I had, how far along I was. He's doing the same thing with the investors right now. So one thing that really tripped me out recently is he's got a group of the investors from this, Cahey Fund that are really convinced that Tyler is the bad guy and he's the good guy. And what's really interesting is these investors even know that he's under investigation at this time. So while they know this, they take him on a phone call with them to an attorney that they're trying to hire.

I mean, that makes no common sense to me whatsoever. So they're having meetings with an SEC attorney right now that's. they may hire with the guy on the other side and this guy is feeding the attorney information like do you guys not see that this is one of the people you would be suing if you end up in a lawsuit not only that but of course all the information that he's giving is going to be about the other partner that he's suing you know there's still an interview with you and Tyler up on his YouTube channel? There is?

Yeah, student success, how to overcome trials. I've tried to find that. Well, what was really upsetting about that, the story I shared about my father and him basically kidnapping me and badly abusing me, that interview

and my personal story of basically being locked in a house and working like a slave from 11 until 14, that story, that story was used to make sales. I had a bunch of students come to me, or yeah, students after they purchased the program saying, your story is why I joined this program. So like, how does that feel after you realize what's happened to know that your personal story had been used to

empty out people's 401ks, their he locks, all these credit cards, you know what I mean? And in that interview, I said, I never again want to be under the thumb of somebody like that. Never again want to be under the control. And having to fight for my money with all these people, having conversations and conspiring against me has been exactly what I talked about on that interview with him. And they're still using it. They still got it up on the website. That's amazing, knowing all of this. What was it like when you found out with your team? How did you guys find out you all pay different amounts to enter into the program?

Oh gosh. It was like a year later. We were just, I think we were coming back from Texas when we were all excited about our deals. And somehow the conversation came up. And I was just like, so I'm a single parent that went in with my best friend who literally was fighting bladder cancer and you charged me more than all these guys but i mean how did they like how did somebody end up saying did you pay the 40 000 or i don't remember how the conversation started but but at that point i asked every single guy on my team and i couldn't believe one of them paid

four grand i was just like that's insane you know and they knew my friend who was going through chemo at the time he was there with me when they took the money so you good want we just wrap it up do you have anything else you good yeah so Ryan is he still with the program

or since they're having a legal battle he's totally out of the multi-family mindset yeah he's trying to fight for his cut of the money which I think is very interesting since all the money was earned pretty dishonestly

if you look at what they're teaching in the three-day class. I also think it's very interesting that these investors have bought into this good guy, bad guy thing when, like, take this Akahi Fund, for example, almost all the webinars and promises were made by Ryan Woolley. So when I was a part of this program, Tyler Devereaux was working on the multifamily mindset, and Ryan Woolley, being the accountant and the underwriter, was mostly working on MF Capital Partners was their investment branch. So with all these investors on the verge of losing their money, they're going after the guy that was the show of the education system now because the guy that was in charge of the investments has now convinced. them all that he's the bad guy. This is how it went down. So Ryan is not involved in the

multifamily mindset, although what I find as ironic is his new investment that he has going right now has multifamily mindset students involved in it. So what do they say, like, what do they say the reasoning for your losses? Like, oh, it's just that happens sometimes or like, do they acknowledge that you know you're out hundreds of thousands of dollars or it's just like hey this is just kind of the way things go sometimes or what's like why haven't they what's their perspective or their reasoning for not making it right i think with me they're just more or less their play is just to ignore me at this point and not really say anything give any rhyme or reason really With a lot of the students in the past that had lost,

it was always kind of what you mentioned at the beginning, like, oh, you didn't have the capability. You know, you couldn't build a business. I was a little bit of a different story, being that I was the one that they were showing as the success story for like one and a half years of their program. So they don't really say anything at all.

To the new students coming in, seeing my stuff all over social media, I'm sure it's the typical, She's negative. This was just a one incident situation. But the interesting thing is, is it's your deal. It's not my deal that failed, and now I'm blaming it on you. You were the manager of the deal that didn't do your jobs.

So there's not really a whole lot to say, but they still manage to convince people somehow. I had a 19-year-old kid that's involved in Ryan Wolley's new deal, start contacting me, through Facebook saying don't talk about our deal don't talk about our deal and I was like okay and he goes I know everything that happened to you I know your whole story and I was just thinking why because Ryan told you I'm sure he told you the whole truth you know so people hear what they want to hear a lot of times okay so how did you get how'd you get hooked up with with Barry um because we had Barry on the program we he did it he did like an hour change our two hours was it two hours? It might have been two or three hours. Barry's a

talker. So anyway, we talked to Barry and that's how you and I got connected. Right. Right. So we did his story, but how did you hook up with him? Yeah. So a lot of the students have been trying to help me as much as they can connect me to different people. So a young man hit me up through messenger, sent me like his Instagram link. And I didn't know anybody was out here kind of advocating for how these Regulation D deals really need change. I mean, they really do. If there's one thing I want to come out of this interview, there is a whole world.

This is one example of things that are happening every single day in these deals. Just one example. This Regulation D exemption needs major overhaul. So he connected me to his Instagram page, and I messaged him immediately, and we've been talking ever since. And I've been working with him, helping him collect info on some other cases he has going on. But I'm looking to start working with him, and he helps victims get restitution and things like that.

So it's really awesome to see somebody out there doing something about this because kind of like I mentioned earlier, it's hard to get help from attorneys and these types of deals and whatnot. So, yeah, I'm going to start working with Barry and help out with some of these kinds of deals. Hey, you guys. If you like the video, do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button to the bell so you get notified videos just like this. Also, we're going to leave all of, all of Fia's links for her social media in the description box. We're also going to leave Barry's link so you can contact him if you're having any problems.

If you want to be on the show, you think you got a great crime story. Please contact us. There's a link in the description box also. you can click on that you can go leave like a three minute video tell us what your story uh also please consider joining our patreon it's ten dollars a month helps colby and i make these videos once again thank you very much i really appreciate it see you