Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Theo Von Of True Crime | Hilarious True Crime Stories

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

The Theo Von Of True Crime | Hilarious True Crime Stories

I did an episode on a guy named Carl Tanzler who got obsessed with this lady that died of tuberculosis, and then he slept with her corpse for 30 years. He stole her body from the graveyard. But the thing that they don't tell you about gay clubs in a bathroom in that place was like Mad Max, man. You know that dude playing the guitar that shoots the fucking flames in front? That's like the bathroom of a gay club. Like him being chased through the fucking. Yeah.

He's a guy with a ball gag. I walk over and I'm over the shower stall. I don't like the way you talk to me in front of your friends. Baby, please. Oh, shit. And I, listen, everybody in there, humiliated for this guy. So, Chase and Kent.

Yeah. Okay. And you guys do a podcast together. We just work for the same company and we do a lot of projects together, but we, he has his thing and I have my thing. And occasionally I go down on him or like whatever he needs. Right.

Okay. Okay. No, we're just friends. Went sideways. That went bad. No, we have a separate podcast. We're just under the same company. Okay.

Yeah. Let me do my intro, please. Let me just do that. Okay. Hey, this is Matt Cox. We're here at Podfest. Fuck all. What did I say?

Where are we? That's fucking close enough. Huh? CrimeCon. Hey, this is Matt Cox. We're here at CrimeCon. And we are with, I want to say true crime kin

And Jimmy That's close as shit Or Chase Chase This is the first crime con we've done But we've done horror hound Before which is like a horror convention And I'm from Kentucky

So I've got to be very careful with how It's a horror or convention We're still trying to get our way into the horror conventions But Yeah it's like mainly like For movies, Friday the 13th, not Maryland, Elm Street and stuff. So we've done that a few times. This is our first CrimeCon.

CrimeCon is a little expensive. But, um, so, yeah, we go out and do that and get the booth and sell merch or whatever. Okay. For, for your own, just for your own stuff. 1159. Um, and the owner of 1159, his name is Sam Swenson. He's also there. But he had to, somebody had to stay at the booth.

So he's at the booth. Um, and yeah, we just have fun, make podcasts and shoot the shit. What did you do before? before, like, before you started the podcast? I did a lot of things. I did, uh... What can you talk about? I was in the Marine Corps for five years.

Um, I was in corrections for three years. Me too. Yeah, he told me a little bit on the way here, yeah. I mean, we were... The only difference in us was the side of the door we were standing on, I think. No different. It's no different. I always said, man, the only difference, even when I worked there,

the only difference in me holding this key and them was one mistake. It's all it takes is one mistake. But I did that for a long time while I was in college. And then after I got out of college, I got into doing tool and die, like a machinist. And in the meantime, like, I was just making, like, dick jokes on Facebook and, like, just stupid childish jokes. And a big podcaster named Jack Luna, who has a podcast called Dark Topic, and he's now working with Generation Wise Aaron, friended me. or I friended him because I was a big fan of his show and I guess me just fucking around on Facebook

like caught his eye and at the time he worked for 1159 media and I got a message from him one day and I'm just a machinist and he's like hey we're wanting to do a comedy true crime show and we need a host you said good for you and I want you to host it and I was like

I mean it was for me you know that was like Brad Pitt reaching out because I was such a big fan of his show I was like, yeah, I'll do it. And pass forward, that was three years ago. And now it's all I do. So how is it, is it all through, like, do you do it through Streamyard? Do you guys actually have a studio or it's all remote?

Squadcast. Squadcast. Oh, yeah, we. I don't know. I feel like a lot of things that fall in your lap. They don't. Yeah, things are just happening. I'm like fucking forced gump.

Things are just happening to you. And you're like, yeah. What? You want me to look after? Some criminal, sure. I can do that. Next thing I know, I'm on America's Most Wanted. So, okay, so what is the, what's the, what is it?

What's the show? True Crime Kent is, I try to find cases where there's already like a comedic aspect to the crime. That's not always the case. We did, we also cover cases like child murderers. It's like, damn it. There's not a lot of comedy fruit that's right for the pick in there, you know? But I try to find it, but I try to, for the most part, find cases where there's like, there's like a, it's already got like a funny edge to it.

Like, for example, I did an episode on a guy named Carl Tanzler who got obsessed with this lady that died of tuberculosis and then he slept with her corpse for 30 years. He stole her body from the graveyard, shoved its vajine, uh, full of papers and made basically a corpse fleshlight out of it out of and just, like, this corpse for like 30 years and he was just nothing in it. And Colby's like, there goes the monetization. And it was wild. But as you can see, that's really funny.

So it was just a riot for comedy. The whole thing was. So, or the Iron Mike Malloy, I did an episode on him. And he was an Irish immigrant that immigrated to New York. And these thugs took out an insurance policy on him and tried to kill him in every way possible. And like, he just wouldn't die. But he never also caught on that they were trying to kill him. So it was like a loony tune.

episodes and it's all true stories and I just do these like deep dives into these cases and just have a good time it's like not politically correct or but I try I do take a lot of pride in the research right yeah so as you can tell yeah I think that's obvious um oh man uh why so why don't you guys do it on uh YouTube well mainly With my show for the reason, you just said. Oh, yeah, Monty, yeah, that it might be an issue. I don't like being, I don't like being censored. I'm super pro freedom of speech and all that stuff.

And I've even turned down ads, monetized ads, because they want to control how I do the ad. Right. So I'm super against somebody telling me what I can and can't say. I wish I could be principled like that. yeah i hate it man it's like um and that's why i've pretty much not done anything on youtube so far there's some of the episodes are on youtube but they're just an audio for them and if they get strapped or taken down and give a shit yeah like they're not i don't even know if they're

monetized i don't even know that people know they're on youtube i didn't know they were on youtube so right and that's it well how did you get into podcasting i was gonna get to them okay thank you feel like I'm talking too much. So whereas they approached him to do a show, I approached them about doing a show. So I made a pilot episode. I sent it in and the owner thought it was good enough. So that was that the email?

Good enough. Not great. Yeah. So I just, I did everything. So I do all my own research, all my own recording, all my own editing. I actually edit almost all of the other shows now. Yeah, sorry about that, man. No, you're good.

So I do all the editing, and yeah, it's just all audio right now. I wouldn't even know what the hell I was doing with video editing. So I do all the easy stuff. He's like the serious guy. His shows are serious. They're not like. And then they're more on the, more on the comedic spectrum. Right.

What do you, I mean, what topics have you gone over, like cases? So with Almost Fiction, I just did one. My newest episode, this release is on. about Marvin Gail Gray. He was a guy who got arrested and then while in prison got super into powerlifting. So, I mean, at one point, he was like 30 pounds off the world record for squat and he did it all in jail, eating jail food. So, I mean, this dude was just a monster. Right.

And then just one of those, but every time he got out of jail, he killed someone and went back to jail. And for some reason, even though he killed someone, he got out again. He murdered a lady, got 15 years. Did his time, gone back out, and then murdered someone else. And so, like Kent, I like to do deep dives on the research. I'll read multiple books. And it's amazing how many times you'll find out just how much conflicting evidence. Yeah, that happens a lot.

And so you'll have one person say, oh, he did this and killed this person. And then I'll read something else that said, oh, that person just went to the hospital for three days. And you're just like, well, that's a big difference. Right. And so it's just there's a lot of podcasts, I think, that kind of. read Wikipedia, maybe read one or two articles online, and then they write an episode and kick it out. You ever, you ever interview the guy?

No, because some of the guys that I do podcasts on are already deceased. Right. It's like Marvin Gail Gray, he died of heart failure in prison. And so, like, I just did another episode. It was the last guy who died in the electric chair in Connecticut. So it's just like some of the people that I do these podcasts on, they, are already deceased some of them it's already getting an interview if they're deceased yeah so like or like i did an episode that took place in italy in like the 30s so it's just like some things it's

just not really feasible to get an interview with anyone who's even still alive that knows anything about the case so how long have you been doing it so i've been doing it full time for eight months okay so that's yeah full time eight months what's your favorite one that you've gone over my favorite one i've gone over was now i'm on the spot i can't remember her last name there was this lady named michel and she was just psychotic she pretended to be like this perfect woman in every aspect of her life and yet behind the scenes she was like offering people a place to stay then she would imprison them torture them and kill them and her kids were there the whole time and so it's just like there's just certain things that you read that you're like this can't be

real and so it's like that's part of the reason why my podcast name is almost fiction because it's like there's some things you read that you're like this can't have happened in real life but it did and so it's just just the craziness that we're surrounded by every day that we don't even know about right how long are the is this do you break them up in different pieces um it just depends like i said one episode. Sorry. I had one episode that was a three-parter and each was almost an hour long. So it's three total hours. And then I've had other episodes that it's 35 minutes. It just depends. I mean, because I had one where this guy, I mean, he only committed one crime. And that was it. But it was just insane. He kidnapped a kid. And then over the course of months, eight pieces of him and wrote

it down in a cookbook. He made a cookbook on how to cook people. And he only, but he only did one person. So it's like, tell me you wouldn't try. If given the opportunity, I've always been super pro-cannibalism and I've said this many times and I'll die on this hill. If I'm ever in a survival situation with any of you, if we all, if this building were to collapse right now, I give all of you permission to eat me if you have my corpse. And I will do the same to you if in the situation.

Bass. yeah because i've just been looking for a reason to be honest did you did you ever see the movie alive i love that with the hockey team and the outs yeah it's a good movie yeah i mean true it's true story but i never read the book but i always remember you know they they they waited like weeks before they way longer than i would yeah i was gonna say like as soon as i got a rumble my tummy started rumbling i'd have been like i'd have been eyeballing people i sometimes if i'm waiting in line at hearties and they're taking too long i started looking at the thighs of the woman in front of me.

And they also ate ass first, which I didn't understand, because that's just mainly fat. I would have went backstrap or thigh. No, no, you have a lot of, in your actual ash cheek, you have a lot of muscle there. Really? Yeah. I didn't know. I mean, I think probably just the people out of the around. Yeah.

We probably hang out with different people. Yeah, that was, that was, God, that was an amazing. That was insane movie. I was, what I was thinking about? What about that guy? some guy or was it two guys that had like three women or four women like in their basement or something uh do you do you remember that one that I mean he kept them alive for forever remember that I can't remember the guy's name they were prostitutes he was targeting

black prostitutes I believe and then he kept them and then he kept them in the basement in a box actually a little box in the basement do you remember that guy's name and one of them got loose that's how he got caught yeah yeah she was running down the street like naked yeah fine and people were ignoring her and then finally someone decided to stop and help her out like that i can't remember for the life of me what then i also had an uncle they haven't caught him yeah yeah yeah you're vastly different you can see that we kind of span the spectrum where i'm not as funny so i if you don't have a sense of humor listen to my podcast but if you do listen to his podcast it's a lot like last podcast on the

left um it's basically a rip off of last podcast on the left let's be honest i haven't yours or yours oh my yeah i don't know any of these podcasts last podcast on the left is like a massive it's probably the it is the one that started i think the true crime comedy genre okay and i listen to it what about um what about uh got my favorite murder even my favorite last podcast on the left was doing episodes in probably 2009 something like that they've been they are very controversial though so they don't get blast podcast and left is controversial just a little bit what about my favorite murder i mean what did are they still around they are yeah they were huge like they were they shot and then they i don't even know i like i haven't heard of in years i haven't heard anything

i think what happens is and it's probably going to happen to me too and probably him with every crime podcast is people run out of cases that they feel fits their particular podcast. Right. You know, thankfully, I'm far from that point yet, and I'm sure he is too, but I see that like with last podcast on the left and a couple others, they're starting to shift towards like cryptids, like, uh, Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot and black holes and stuff. And I think it's because they feel like they've covered everything worth not, not that every murder is horrible, but you need a certain, there's a point where an episode where a topic has too much information it's like because i want to include anything i will i will never do like an

episode on geoffrey dammer because there's just too much there's like it's too much overwhelming it would be like a 10-part series you know so many dicks he ate it was like that guy is so many dicks but so this is this is going to be a problem um how long are your episodes they range from between like an hour 20 and two and a half hours but sometimes we do multi-parters so they'll be like three-parters

but most of them are one one-offs and they're between like an hour and a half two and a half hours right what's your do you have a favorite my favorite if I I always tell people it's like a christening we have an episode

called corpsewood manner and if you can make it through corpsewood manner then you are going to be a listener because it's like I talked about like my first gay experience and I'm not even gay I don't think I'm still trying to figure that shit out I'm 36 I should get on that but um yeah that's going to be confusing yeah I got three kids I need to like that I need to work this out because I've got to get on that but um I used to go to gay clubs because my first wife when I was in the Marine Corps. It explains the first wife

part. Yeah, she's probably a lesbian now. It's from the subject. But because anybody's being married to me. That's usually what happens. But she was a Marine and most of her friends were, I was a Marine, she was a Marine, and all her friends were Marines and a lot of people don't know this, but like a large portion of the Marine Corps that is female, we don't talk about this a lot. Are? No. Yeah. I would have never put that together. Yeah. I don't think it's surprising anybody. Not all of them, of course, but like a large portion, a really large portion. So I would just go to, like, gay clubs with them and have fun. It was the most fun ever.

At the time, I was the most fit I'd ever been in my life. Fitter than this? Oh, this is, like, embarrassing. I look like John Goodman. What do you think? Yeah, I was in good shape, so guys would buy me drinks. But the thing that they don't tell you about gay clubs is like, and the one that I used to go to all the time, was called Abiza's in Wilmington, North Carolina.

and the bathroom in that place was like mad max man you know that dude playing the guitar that shoots the fucking flames right that's like the bathroom of a gay club like him being chased through the fucking yeah through this guy with a ball gag there's a dude hanging from the ceiling and rubber like you don't know what you're going to run it and it was always my favorite part going to the bathroom because you like never know what you're going to see and i'm just a small town christian boy yeah it sounds like it it's like it's like going the restroom in the low security prison after after count exactly after lights off it's like I I would go and piss just before take a piss just before count because when

they'd count and they go lights off and they shut the lights off and I think God I and if it two in the morning I had to go to the bathroom I'd be like I'm going to hold it I'm just because you don't know what you're going to go in on you don't know what you're going to walk into I mean I would walk in looking at the floor go straight to the urinal go to the bathroom no matter what noises I heard no no matter I turn it back around, walk out. I don't need to wash my hands. Keep walking. See, you approach it differently.

This is me. I'm trying to take it all in. What are y'all doing in there? Why are there four feet in there? Well, that's what happened, actually, is I went to the urinal, and there were two dudes like, I could hear a ball slap, a ball sack, slapping the back of another ball sack, like three foot from where I was pissing. And I was looking at the wall, and I'm just hearing this, like, and they were like, really, he was really letting them have it.

You know those like donuts that that trucker set on because they got hemorrhoids? Yes. This guy definitely had to use one of those the next day because he was getting turned out. And I thought he was in that position. I think he's already turned out. He was, yeah. And which is good for it, man. I'm all for it.

If that's what you're into. But I was looking at the wall of the urinal and pissing. And this guy's just rearranging this fellow's insides. And I was thinking about like getting baptized. when I was 13 and growing up in a Christian town, I was very conservative. I was raised conservative. My stepfather's a preacher.

And it was like, if they could just see me now. You know, I've come a long way. Come a long way. And then my buddy, my buddy who I did the show with, his gay experience was getting molested in a tent while he was camping.

So we roasted him. We roasted him for like, 20 minutes for getting molested. We just really let him have it. Worse than the tent experience? Yeah. Yeah. Less roasting him for his trauma

was probably worse than the trauma itself. I was good. You're a good friend. He's a great. Yeah, I'm a pretty good dude. I need to figure out the gay thing, though. But if you can get through that. And the reason we talk about that is because,

in the beginning of the episode, because the crime involved two gay dudes that were just living their lives, not bothering anybody in this backwoodstown in Arkansas, in the woods, and fucking just living their lives. And they got brutally murdered by these, like, rednecks. So it's kind of, you know, it was a horrible crime. But they lived in a castle, so that was the funny part.

But not like a typical castle. It was like a, like, a, like. if you ordered a castle, I wish. It was like a shitty castle because they're gay and they built the castle themselves and they're great an interior decoration, but like not not in Masonry work.

Structural, yeah, like not, they're not bricklayers. The curtains were fucking great though. They have beautiful curtains, but and they just got murdered by these inbred rednecks and it was a horrible story, but I always say, so corpsewood Manor.

If you're going to try true crime, Kent, corpsewood Manor, that's worth that. So I have a prison story. The restrooms, when you walk into the restroom in a low security prison, low security prisons don't have, typically don't have like a door on the cell, right? Yeah. So, and so you don't have a bathroom in your cell. It's a group bathroom, right?

They're called dorm. It's a big dorm and you have like a bathroom. It would be like a public bathroom. Well, when you walk in, of course, typically you walk in and then there's a whole bunch of sinks. and then you walk a little bit further in and there's urinals and you know the whatever you call them the toilets with the stalls thank you

but to the right there's all the shower stalls so I remember so one time I'm in there taking a shower so I'm taking a shower and I hear these guys talking and there's two gay guys and the one gay guy goes

I'm like I was squeeze it and I'm like and I'm washing and I thought oh christ and i'm trying i'm like i need to get out of here i'm doing my ham you know we're trying now i'm like i say squeeze this there's none in there i's telling you there's it's in there we'll squeeze it i'm telling you some more and they're going back and forth arguing and finally i went and then i hear well did you take it and i went i'm not understand what the car i think i'm missing something yeah because i'm trying to figure out like with the scenario so i go

and and and he's saying rub it on or rub it on me rub it on you know and i'm like what okay now i have to look. So I turn and I go to the shower stall and, you know, I'm like five foot six. So I don't, I'm not, I walk over and I'm, yeah, over the shower stall. And the one gay guy is in the shower stall. And the other guy is in, and is in the shower stall. And he's got a bottle of nair. And he's nearing his back. The other guy's back. And I was like, and I like, I like, look over and I'm like, oh, nears. And they're like, Matt. And what do you want, Cox? I was like, nah, I had a whole thing in my head all right like anybody carry on shake it you have to shake it so I finished off and left where'd you grow up in Tampa Florida so you're not like far because this place is also

no one where what hour and a half yeah so like but you also I mean I imagine Florida is also pretty conservative right yeah so like I was raised on a tobacco farm right right we had cats and I worked in hay, you know. Did you know where Okachobi is? Okachobi? You know where Lake Okeechobe? I don't. You know, so, okay, so you were raised in, I mean, you were educated in the South.

I was in the South. Okay. So, so Florida, so Florida, there's, you know, that big dot, that big lake in Florida? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Lake Okeechobee. So there's Okachobee County and, you know, Lake Oakchobee in the city of Okachovie. And that's where Jess was raised. And it's mostly cow pastures and dairy farms and what else was there?

That's pretty much out. Yeah. It's just farmland. Yeah. Yeah. Rednecks and pick up trucks. So you know what I'm talking about. So like being in that situation or so you were like a more urban city.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I saw a black person until I was like 26. Oh, she did. She did. did her story the other day in like the second episode she said she talks about how she moved to gainsville

and went to public school and she's like like that was the first time i'd ever seen a black person yeah ever and you're trying not to stare and you're not being racist you're just interested it's like he wanted to go up and be like yeah you want to touch them and like it's interesting the closest thing i had i grew up in Arizona in the middle of cattle ranching and so it's just Everybody was big belt buckles and boots all the time and we had two brothers in our school that were half black and that was it.

That was just about it for a whole school. And they were probably adopted. They were half black, half Navajo. So we'll see that one every day. They must have been hell of a fighter. Oh, yeah. They come in. Well, the one kid was a cannon ball.

I did not want to get in a fight of him at all. He just roll you over and you just get up. all broken and bloody and go on your on your way in your experience in prison who is the race that like fight wise who would win the race who would win the race war i'm trying to be diplomatic here i mean i've already i already realize this never getting monetized now i'm just hoping we can save the channel can we just keep the channel going how do i say it who would it depends i'm sure it depends on the numbers if if all the race is met in

the field outside of Wyoming all the races who and it was just fist of cuffs because you've got you've seen the front lines of this you know how how it happens who walks away who runs the world I don't

this is like that is a great question that's a great question I don't I don't feel like I don't feel like I'm, I'm equipped to, first of all, I mean, like in prison, like, it's, it's in the low, it's probably 60 to 70% black. So they just have the numbers. Yeah. You know, in the medium security prison, it's probably 80% black and then maybe 17% Mexican and there's maybe two or three percent white guys or others.

Right. So, you know, the whole compound of, let's say. 16 to 1,800 guys, there's 20, maybe 30 white guys. So, you know, you're just done. Yeah. So, but in the low, there's more whites, but the whites that are there are more educated. Yeah. So, you know, these are not like, I know you, I know you look at me and you think tough guy.

Yeah. Cool guy, tough guy. He can handle himself. Exactly what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But I'm actually soft as cotton. Okay. Like, you know, it's, it wouldn't like genuinely. I'm not sure if I could take her. I outweigh her by 50 pounds. And she's insisting. Yeah, but I can't, but I can, but I don't know. She has like that female UFC fighter bill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She, oh, look, the shoulders? Yeah. It's ridiculous. Got like that Ronda Rousey kind of figure. Oh, listen, listen, she was a hog hunting tour guide for seven years. Oh, that makes perfect sense. Okay.

Was in the military? right so you see the military too i did hawk hunting myself but it was in wilmington you know what what branch were you in really where were you stationed okay that's awesome when did you get out my brother was well i came from an army family and i was i would say my brother my dad would have probably disowned me but he he died before that happened so Thank God. Yeah, my brother was at Fort Polk in Louisiana, I believe. So, yeah.

I don't know. Back to the race war. I thought you were going to say Samoans. So. Actually, they're... Actually, that's funny because there were a couple of Samoan guys. There was a Samoan. I went to a drug program, and there was a Samoan.

guy that attacked in the middle of like our we had like a morning meeting in the middle of the morning meeting he attacked another guy like all the all the the guards are there like everybody there and he just attacked him and he'd already been to trial twice in hawaii he was like a crypt or a blood he'd been to trial twice for murder in hawai and beat two charges yeah i remember being like they're not human i mean that in the best i don't mean that like they're not human they look like the rock i don't mean that in the way that it sounds whenever somebody like me says that i don't human i mean that like they're not human they're like superhuman yeah he was a big muscular tough guy yeah yeah they're badasses yeah i would i always picture like samoans if you made a

it's like the rock if you made a race war fighting game for like xbox isn't the rock simoan is it he he is yeah yeah yeah i feel like in the video game they would be like three times you would have to spend the money in the video game for one simoan like you would have you would have they would cost one Samoan would cost as much as like six watts right and my god and you would probably get three blacks for one Samoan so you know how sometimes like we get we get we get it's demonetized and then you could ask for a review this is one of those times where it's like you just take it like you definitely don't want it like you get the review you review it and they're like oh yeah we did make a mistake i thought i was giving

compliments i thought the whole the whole channel has to come down yeah he has to deal with this shit all the time um i don't even know what to say i'm sorry man i don't know if this was your podcast what else would you ask if my this is my podcast we'd be talking about when it gets worse hey so you have a it's a niche market for you yeah but they're like passionate but we have they are super we had a small army show up to the convention just for the 1159 media

so it is very niche but what other crime type conventions are there other than crime this is it that I know of well you said the other one was well horror hound is more like horror

like horror movies and horror or are I have the same problem with the word raw roll are you R-R-A-L I always feel like you gotta go R-R-R-R-A-L So

Okay so this is it CrimeCon's it This is a lot of murders It's all murders CrimeCon is also super corporate And we don't fit in to the Stop it I'm not gonna

I was wearing a Waffle House Slides yesterday Next to a guy in a suit So So probably be our last The more you listen to him The more you realize Why they brought me in

Yeah you sure got birdie lips yeah and I've made moves on him on multiple occasions and actually don't think I'm supposed to be within 500 feet of him right now I disabled that restraining order just for time time

doesn't go into fact to like next Sunday he does have to edit everything and I always feel like he has to make the call on what that's not going in or that isn't going in usually that's not but we just have fun man it's a lot of fun and it's fun for me because three years ago I was just a blue collar

dude in a in a machine shop I had already like subscribed to the idea of I'm going to be here for 30 years and then I'm going to die of some form of cancer right I understand and I just hope that I make it better for my girl my kids and I was okay with and that's fine if you're living that life yeah I respect that no that's that's what keeps America going I I mean, that's why I was okay with it, because that's fine. But I wasn't looking for any of this. And Jack Luna just pecked me out of the, and gave me a microphone. Did you build a sound studio in your house?

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. They actually sent me all the gear. The company, 1159 did. And I ended up taking a bathroom out of my basement and turning it, converting it to a recording booth. And the rest is history. Cool.

it's been a wild ride super thankful and if it honestly if it ended tomorrow I would be okay with that that's why I'm so I think that's why I am the way I am honestly

because it's like if somebody's like we're gonna if somebody try to cancel me it's fucking cancel me I'll give a shit I'll go back to a machine shop and be happy about it you know what I mean like you're not gonna

you're not gonna hurt me so I'm happy either way with or without this and then for me it was just something that I was looking to do on the side just just to get you know I've always wanted to create and so I was like oh this would be something fun I wasn't ever thinking it's going to be my full-time job right like I worked for a municipality I was doing water treatment and wastewater treatment so I was being cross-trained at the town facilities where I lived and it just I just sent it in because it was something I was doing anyways I was just writing things on the side writing stories on the side and I send it in and next thing I know I'm doing it full-time so this was never I never thought this would be a full-time gig for me but it's just what it kind of turned into yeah that's yeah I understand that's I was just laying in in a in a bunk bed in prison how old were you in 13 13 years right did yeah 13 years fucking crazy how old were you

when you went in first 10 years is the hardest but last three that I hated leaving, honestly. I did. I was like, it's not enough time. I was in the middle of the story, and I was like, it's not enough time. How old were you when you went in? 36, 37. 37?

Yeah, yeah, I was about, it was 37, I think. How old are you now? I'm 54. Jesus Christ, I hope I look like that at 54 years old. How old are you now? 36, I look like shit. You think I didn't know? Start now.

No. My tits are bigger than my wafes. It wasn't always like this. She didn't sign up for this. I feel bad for her. Yeah. But yeah, it was the same thing. Like I got out.

I didn't even know how I was going to make a little. Like I got out, what, four years ago? Four years ago? Yeah. Four years ago. And I thought, I didn't know how I was going to make a living. I remember thinking just before I was laying in my cot thinking, listen, bro, like, you're going to work at McDonald's.

You're going to live in someone's spare room. You're going to be happy. You're going to be humble. You're going to be appreciative. You're not going to be. committing crimes. You're just going to live your life out. And if that's the best you got, then that's the best you fucking got. Like I told myself, I, in an, you don't want to get your hopes up. Right, right. Oh, I also thought to myself, you're going to give it a year and you're

going to commit fraud. You know, if things don't work, work out for you. There was a battle. At least you had that year. There was a battle. Yeah. A battle going on. But yeah, and then, then, then about two and a half, about two and a half years ago. Yeah, I started, started doing TikTok, started doing YouTube for about six months and then met Colby. And then, you know, kind of teamed up and started doing this podcast that's fucking awesome yeah but it didn't take off like you know yours it sounds like yours kind of took off like right away like it it took it's really in the last six months six seven months that it's really started like it's picking up paying well no like paying all of our bills like now it's to the point where it's like this is

all i do that's amazing which is it was it is amazing because like just shooting my mouth off it's all what did you do after after at a prison like between in that period where this wasn't covering the i mean i painted and i had written a bunch of true crime books so i'd written about six true crime books while i was incarcerated and a bunch of stories and so i it took several months for me to edit them and put them on amazon but i also started doing podcasts that were and when i would tell my story it'd get you know a million two million views yeah and so that was selling books. So I'm getting 1,500 a month off of the books. And I'm working, I'm doing paintings. Like I would sell paintings because I can paint. So I would sell paintings and I was doing some

speaking engagements. And then so that was kind of, my bills were nothing. You know, I'm living in someone's spare room. Yeah. So just as that kind of, I started the podcast and it's kind of slowly transitioned out of that into just this. And now it's, obviously, I get paintings. I have a Patreon. And, you know, and this is now paying, you know, for everything. So that's awesome, man. It was, when you say paintings, like, what, what kind of stuff?

Would you paint like fruit? What are you paying? If I had to, I would. No, I mean, I paint, you know, I paint painting. I paint, I'm going to see some of your paintings. Yeah. Let's go ahead. I love that phone case.

by the way. Let's go ahead. I got free. This is the first time that I've actually asked somebody to see their art and enjoyed the art. You know what I mean? Usually, yeah, they show it to and you're like, it's like, looking at pictures of their kids. I like that.

That's kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I just got the, like, like, he's like, we might as well wrap this up. This is an hour of demonetization. How was it? I did do.

I painted some pictures of this. After this conversation, It's such a horrible thing to say it was because I have I have painted some pictures of people's kids But they sent me the photos they were fully clothed okay yeah yeah I told him I was like trying to gauge on the way over here like what I can No well listen Colby's a square he's especially compared to all of us well he handled it well Because he brought up Chris Hanson yeah and I said and I straight face just to see how he would react I said yeah I've actually met Chris Hanson but it was at 3 a.m. in a random neighborhood and he wasn't happy to see me and then I like and I did it straight face to see and he started laughing I was like we're gonna be good we're gonna be this is gonna be fine yeah we had we had the guy with the Chris Hanson is that what you were talking about that guy yeah I love those and can imagine I was in prison and the low security prison like 40% of the inmates have like some kind of some kind of sex crime yeah so you so you so I've met I've met guys that have been on the guys that like showed up with like a harp you know i'm saying like the kid showed up with like a harp and

you know and a bottle of k y and and a box full of condoms and he was just there to talk about out of it i didn't know she was 12 yeah like you're like i was trying to make life a live in hell for those guys and i was a corrections officer but in like the most legal way possible like i never did anything illegal but i wasn't going to get you yeah like that extra thing of soap you know what i mean like i did it all within what is legal but i wasn't going to do anything extra for those guys guys and it also made me smile when they got their asses handed to them. Listen, prison is, it's so packed with them now that, where it used to be, you know, like they, they, they basically had to stay in their cell all the time. They couldn't walk out there. They don't look at anybody that.

There's so, yeah, but there's so many of them now. Oh, yeah. They're starting, oh, they're outnumbering. Yeah, there's 40%. And here's the thing. It's not just like, that's the guy got locked up for that alone. Do you think that's because of the internet? Um, you think? Yeah. So, it's not just that but there will also be guys that have been to prison before yeah and then they've got charges so if they don't have to be there on that charge but on their jacket they've got a statutory rape or they've got a whatever in their jacket so now they've got a problem now how do people i've always wondered this how do you guys find out what so-and-so's charges are like how does the most of them have been in the newspaper or you can go on yeah you can go on you can go on pay have somebody on the outside go on pacer first of all it doesn't let's tell you what happened what would happen all the time some guy would come in and here's what they always say they never say they say one or two things my lawyer said um some guys will go up to him and say hey bro what are you here for and they go my lawyer said not to talk about my charges he's a chow yeah um or they you walk in they walk in

they're like oh i'm here for fraud and then so what would happen is some guy some white guy would come to me. I was Kenny King. The name was Kenny. Kenny did this notorious. He'd go, oh, okay. Hold on a second. He'd come in, Cox, come here.

I go, yeah, what's up? He goes, there's a new guy here says he's here for fraud. Ah, Kenny, I don't want to talk to the guy. Come on now. Come on. They had you to fish out the. I'd walk over. I'd go, hey, man, you're here for fraud.

Can he be sitting there? Yeah. And what's you here for? And I go, I have the one that was hilarious because the guy goes, he said, oh, I'm here for credit card fraud. And I went, credit card fraud, is that, they charge you with credit card fraud? Yeah. I go, was that to charge?

Yeah. There's no credit card fraud charge. It's access device fraud. It's counterfeiting. It's identity theft. It's wire fraud. There's no credit card fraud, not in the federal system, you know? So, and I, I go, oh, okay.

And I, but he may be wrong. Like, in his mind, I've heard mortgage fraud guys say, oh, I'm here for mortgage fraud. They charge it with mortgage fraud? Yeah, there is no mortgage fraud charge. It's financial institution fraud. It's wire fraud. It's money launding. wondering, it's bank fraud, there's no mortgage fraud, you know? So I don't, you know, so I, so I, so I like,

you're like the Pito drug dog. Right. In there. So this one kid goes, so he's sitting there and he's like, yeah, credit card. I said, well, what were you doing? Well, I was, I was taking money out of people's credit cards. I said, well, how? And he's like, what do you mean? I go, I mean, like, did you work at a bank? Like, did you work at a retailer? Were you able to get access to the cards and charge them? Like, how are you pulling money out of their cards? And he's like, oh, Well, it's not a learning experience. And I went, okay, I look at Kenny, I go, he's a show. And Kenny's go, I knew it.

And you walk off. Like that's it. And of course he was. You later come out, later comes out, you know, that he was looking at pictures online. You know, and they came in, the FBI comes. He ends up buying some stuff from an FBI run website because the FBI is probably populating 80% of the stuff out there to get these guys. Yeah.

And they come in, you know, a couple weeks later, they indict him. They come in. They grab his computer. It's it. It's over. And what's the scariest thing about it was, his family ran like a mortuary. So God knows what was going on there. Oh, Jesus.

So, and he got, I think he got like three or four years. I think it's. The new BMO, V.I. Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more. More perks. More points. More flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card. And then so.

Get your ticket to more with the new BMOV-I-Porter Mastercard And get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months. Terms and conditions apply. Visit BMO.com slash V-I-Porter to learn more. The name was Ian. It's always a fucking Ian. So, yeah, but that happened all the time, guys. And they always say fraud.

They never come in and say something like, you know, they don't think they can pull off like drug dealer. They don't think they can pull that off. There's enough in there to quickly have them. Right, right. You can't fake it, right? So they think, oh, I can fake fraud. No, you can't.

Like, fraud's just as hard. Like, you're going to better tell me how you committed this fraud. Like, how is it? They can't come up with it. People always think, oh, I can commit fraud. Really, how are you going to do? I would steal people's identity. How are you going to do that?

How is that easy? Especially in 2023. Right. So it is hard. This is how you did it in 1850. My name is Randy now. Right. so in coleman there's a one unit just dedicated to the military right really yeah so like people

that committed crowns while in active duty no no no guys that have military service so you've got a dd214 you served your country you got out you robbed the bank well we've got a special unit you get special privileges because you were in the military so i don't know if i support that no why some guy did 20 years or 10 years or got a dd214 listen special privileges don't mean much it's still prison you know what I'm saying it's not like but here's the thing about the problem with that unit is is that I would say Pete actually keep my buddy Pete sorry I have a buddy in prison my buddy Pete was the the counselor's clerk and I don't know what the reason is and I'm not saying anything against the military but it was packed with shows yeah

packed with them so you've got so at one point out of a hundred and like 60 guys and it and it didn't have as many like other units have 180 150 of a air force listen listen there were 30 there was like 30 guys that didn't have show charges yeah so out of a hundred fucking 60 there's 130 had show charges wow what kind of special privileges are you talking um like they might have like a library in there in there, you know, just like a small room with a library or they would have an area where they could watch movies or it was, it was quieter. It was much cleaner, much more disciplined. Yeah. A lot of those guys would be older. And so it was a, listen, I would have moved in that unit. It was quieter. It was cleaner. Everybody was respectful. And they're all shows. I mean,

you put me around 130 shows like, I'm a fucking gangster. Yeah. I'm a badass in front of a fucking bunch of children. Because they know they're weak. They know. They're terrified. they're terrified they're some it's you'd be you would think that the most of them would be kind of like humble and meek and all or you think all of them would be meek and ashamed yeah there's a group that will argue with you about it that this is that oh yeah that like no well it's been going around for forever if it wasn't for the the government for these laws it's it's draconian it's bullshit like oh if you're in mexico you can marry a 13 year old I don't see what the problem is it's like okay well you're not in Mexico and it's not and well in Greek in the Greek

you know, back in the, back in the Roman times or whatever, you know, in 400 AD was, it was normal to, we ain't in 400AD, you know, you could, we also thought the earth was flat. Right. And you could own slaves, you know, there's lots of things that were acceptable back then. Yeah. But, yeah. So, so they would, they'll, they'll argue to a degree, but they're still just, they're still just not tough people.

Yeah. You know, they prey on children. It takes, I think, a special kind of person to. You would get every once in a while, you'd get some guy who'd been in the military, who'd been through the, in a Marine, and he would knock, and some guy would be giving him a hard time, oh, hey, fuck you, you fucking Joe, hey, man, fuck you. But what, what, what, what, and just knock him out.

And the dude would drop you, like, damn, you just got dropped by a Cho. Yeah. Like, you might as well check it. How many notches does that drop your status, like immediately? It's bad. So say like that happened to, like, a block. I just worked in a jail, so I don't know, like, there's a lot of differences in a jail in a prison, but like, say a block, uh, what do they call them,

the leaders the oh yeah a shot caller a shot caller say that happened to a shot color he just got knocked out of a show like yeah oh yeah he's probably out of that he's probably he probably has to check in and just wait till they ship them that quickly it would be bad and this is a low too so you don't really have that you you have it's a very loose kind of thing yeah these are guys that fight over stupid stuff yeah ramen noodles yeah exactly i get it they will they will we've had that conversation many times more guys will get into fights over stuff that you're like, the guy borrowed two magazines from you and then lent them out to a buddy of his and now nobody knows where they are and you got into a fight with the guy.

Physical altercation. But you never like, you were, you seem like the kind of guy that's smart enough to be like, it's not fucking worth it. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, I don't lend anything out. Yeah. Like, one, I don't lend it out. And if I do, I don't ask for it back.

I don't run up bills. I'm respectful to everybody. Yeah. I don't gamble. I don't talk about people. Like there's certain things that will get you in trouble Because in prison, if you get stabbed You probably had it coming

Yeah, there's a damn good chance You did something Yeah, there's a story there Right, right, like you ran up a debt And then you decided not to pay it The guy gave you ample opportunities Let's you said, hey look, make some payments So get your family to do this

And you basically just told home Go fuck yourself, you ain't gonna do nothing Okay, now I gotta do something Yeah So it's like either I have to try and get moved Or I have to hurt you somehow Yeah. Like I don't want to be in that position. So somebody comes to say, hey, Cox, can I borrow this? Can I get? No, bro. Well, I don't lend stuff out. Oh, man, it's like that. It's like that. It's like that. Yeah. I'm sorry. You know, I wish I could. But, and what's the problem? Dude, I said, I'm going to be honest with you. Like, if I gave it to you and you didn't give it back to me, not that I think you would. But if you, if I did and you didn't give it back to me, what am I going to do? And now I'm just some punk. So I don't fucking lend anything out. I don't borrow money. Save you and them. Right. And they would, you know, people, if you're just honest, they're like, like, yeah, that's cool, bro, I get it.

And they'll walk off. Yeah. Go talk to Brandon. Brandon and lend his shit out. Then you guys can fight about it next week. He'll beat the hell out of you if you don't give it back. I'm not going to do that. How often did you see one thing that I saw as a corrections officer, even in jail, was like,

we'd get a new kid in there, he'd be 18, 19 years old, come from like kind of a wealthy background, right? And he'd get, like, first time they get commissary, I'd be handing commissary out. And it'd be like, say, Brandon Smith. And he'd have a commissary. bag like this big just stacked to the gill and all these other guys that have been in here for two or three years whatever and i'm handing them one bag of fritos and you see this kid take this giant bag and you're like i'm watching them go away and i'm thinking you're not going to eat

any of that yeah they're going to rape you like the second i shut this door you're done for do yeah that's a bad mistake they should probably stagger that fucking purchase um that was one of the first things like i noticed like as an as a corrections officer's like i think if i I was in, I just wouldn't order anything on commissary. I wouldn't have anything. I would try to intentionally not have anything. So jails are filled with like guys that, you know, burglarize a place, steal a car, get into a fight, right? They're low level kind of criminals, right? Yeah. So, you know, every once in a while, you might get some guy who stole $300,000, but that's rare. Yeah. Most of these guys are, you know, they're, they're domestic violence,

their fist fights, they're, they're state crimes. Yeah. So those are more violent. is. Like, I was never in one of those, those jails. Like, even if I was in a jail, it was the U.S. Marshal's holdover. So I'm with federal inmates. Not that, not that those things don't happen, but those guys are in custody waiting to be processed for really complicated large cases. Big deals. Yeah. Yeah. So they're in there, and they're not really pressuring people to give up their stuff and they're not fight, because that'll come back on you. Yeah. You know, this is, it's not a mill. the feds the mill like that guy that's been in and out of jail like if he gets into a fight in the jail they don't even bring it up at sentencing here you get into your honor he did this he did

this he pled guilty and guess what when he was in jail he was robbing guys and beating him up to steal their stuff and the judge would be like oh hell no and you got the low end of the guidelines you were going to get 120 months yeah i'm throwing on three years and they know that like guys behave in there their lawyers tell them like don't talk to anybody else don't tell them this don't this do not get in any trouble in here and most of these guys have somebody to put money on their books yeah you know they're not broke they weren't raising the projects and they're struggling they had money yeah that's part of the problem so you know and they have their still have family that will kind of help support them and the other guys are everybody's getting you know

everybody's getting commission getting money so so when the commissary thing rolls around like almost everybody's got commissary especially you just got a you just got a you just got arrested your wife's still around you know your kids still still come to see you yeah your your friends are still hoping you'll get out because they still remember what a baller you were you're not broke yet and so so those things don't typically happen um now when you go and then when you go to prison you know once again it's a federal prison and they typically they have money they have hustles they have jobs um you don't you you you know i've heard of people guys getting pressured to pay like extortion and stuff like that when i was in that never happened to me

when i was in the medium where you're really in a vulnerable spot right because i'm a little white guy i'm not there's there's not enough white guys to to to watch each other's backs yeah so one one white guys equals two samoans and the video end that we're making about the race war right so so it never happened there but when i went to when I went to the low you know and you're in a low so now we're in a low security yeah so you know these guys are really stabbing each other and causing each other

and fights and everything in the medium and now I'm at the low I was at the low maybe whatever sick I don't even remember how long six months three months maybe and I remember I was in my cell I'm sitting there reading a book and you know and this black guy walks in and he's tall he's like six four six five He's tall.

And he walks in. I remember he got closer than he should have gotten. And I'm sitting there reading and I look up at him. I go, what's up? And he's like, and he goes, listen, man, this is how this is going to work. And I go, okay. And my cellie is sitting over here too, right? He's a Mexican guy.

A big guy in good shape. Like, I'm really not worried. I'm worried. It's uncomfortable. Like something's about that. This isn't good. Whatever it is. It isn't good, but I'm not going to get my ass beat.

somebody you know there's too many people around this you know and i'm i'm very well liked it's not going to happen so and also you just don't like it when somebody i don't know how somebody don't open a conversation with this is how it's going to happen that's a bad that's even yeah even out here yeah so um and i'm sitting and he goes listen bro this is going how this is going to work he goes he said you're going to get me i i forget exactly what he said i probably said that before but he's like you're going to get me $50 in commissary every single month you understand me he said and nobody's going to bother you. I went, yeah?

He goes, yeah. And I said, all right, I said, you got a list? And he goes, I ain't playing, man. And I said, bro, I'm not playing, but what am I going to get you? $50 in commissaries, do you want all soda? Yeah. I said, give me a list, bro. And he goes, man, I ain't joking.

I said, I hear what you're saying. You have to know what he wants. I said, I need to know what you want. Give me the list and I'll get the commissary for you. And he went, all right, man. I said, do me a favor. I said, make sure you put your cell number on it. So I know where to bring.

I don't know where you're at. And he goes, why? I said, to be honest with you, I said, because when I take the list and I go to the counselor's office and I walk him back to your cell, I want to know what cell to bring him to so we can discuss how you're trying to extort me for $50 in commissary. And he goes, oh, it's like that. like that you're gonna you're just gonna fucking you snitch on me that's what you're gonna do i said bro if i didn't pay extortion in the fucking medium do you think i'm coming to a low filled with a bunch of chosen

snitches i said to fucking pay i said i'm not paying and you're not doing nothing i said get the fuck are you says i said yeah i'm gonna fucking go tell on you i'm gonna fucking tell on everybody i'm gonna snitch you out at that point also you're probably 40 years old it's like i don't I've been, I've been locked up for three fucking years. Like the camp I was at, first of all, the whole system's filled with fucking in the federal system, it is absolutely designed to cooperate against other inmates and cooperate against your co-defendants. So one, you got 40%, 40, 50% are chose. The other people that are there are at a low. if 95% of inmates cooperate

and you've got out of 180 guys that are here 60 or sex offenders which maybe they probably didn't cooperate because they'd get nothing for it. So 60% are and you take 90% or 95% of 60 that means that in this unit there's three guys that didn't cooperate. Now granted 95% are they're all 100% are lying about it

but there's 3%. And we know who those are because it's that guy he went to trial, that guy went to trial, and that guy went to trial so they didn't cooperate, which means everybody's sitting here cooperated. So everybody here's snitching on everybody, and I know you don't want to go anywhere because you're at a low. I'm like, but, you know, whatever, give me the list. And he's just like, all right, that's how it's going to be. You're going to find out. I said, all right, I'll find out. And he walks off. Let me ask you this. Realistically, realistically, even if you never came back.

Even if you had gotten him the stuff and you did, would he have actually, here's Mike, would he have actually put forth the efforts to provide you the protection? The protection that he claims. The protection that I didn't need. That's just him. It's basically saying I'm not going to kick your ass for $50. Because he's not going to stop anybody else from, yeah. No, he's not going to do anything.

And nobody's doing anything. It's like, if you come up to be the first couple of days, he would have been the same, same, he would have got the same response. Yeah. At the medium, he might have, that might have, it wouldn't have worked on me because I don't have anything. I don't have the ability to pay you $50. I'll bring you right now to my commissary account and I'll show you that right now I don't receive money on my books. Nobody gives me any money.

Nobody sends me money. Like for the first three years, I was locked up. My mother sent me $50 here, maybe $50 there because I immediately got a job teaching GED. and teaching the real estate class. In the real estate class, guys would show up, and let's say 40 people show up, 30 people show up, 15 or 20 of them don't want to be there. They want a certificate so they can tell their counselor, look, I got a certificate. So what I would do is the first thing I'd say, listen, if you don't want to be here, you can leave.

Find me before class next time, come early, find me on the compound, give me your information, get me, you know, whatever, two bags of coffee, three bags of creamer. And bring that to me. I'll make sure you get a certificate. I'll fill out all your paperwork for you. I'll give you the certificate. You can leave. You know, you're going back to sell drugs.

You don't want to fucking sit in this class for the next three months. And so, listen, half the class would leave. And then, you know, and now I just have to deal with people that want to be here. And then I got tons of commissary. Or I'd some guy would come and I'd say, hey, man, listen, just give me a six pack of soda. And I really just ate in the, you know, I didn't need anything. So I was never in a person, you can't shake me down. I got nothing.

Yeah. I think that's the best way to stay. I've never been to prison, but that's how I always figured. Well, by the time I got to the low, now I'm getting money on my books because now I'm writing people's books. I'm getting book deals. I'm getting money in. I option somebody's life rights.

They're sending me money. You got a book deal in prison? I got two book deals in prison. No shit. I got some guys in Rolling Stone magazine. Optioned the film rights to one of the guy's stories. Got a book deal off that guy. Got another book deal for another guy.

After that one, now people are lining up to. talk to me. So I got another book deal after that. Then I just started writing, writing books because by that time I was realizing I was going to be getting out of prison pretty soon. So I just started writing stories. And then when I got out, I just published the books that didn't have, because I probably wrote, I really, I wrote eight books, but I had six that I was able to publish myself. The other ones are actually with publishers. So I, and listen, what, how would I fucking racket that is? Like, you get a check for like 3500 bucks and you don't see another check for years. And now the checks I get. So now nobody buys that book anymore. I get a check every six months for

like $115. You know. So, but the other books sell and, you know, that's, you know, that's, you know, that's a car payment. You should have got a booth at Crowncom. I should have, but my handlers, my handlers waited too long. Gangbusters. Yeah, yeah, we don't even know. They don't like us very much. Well, we're not going to mention your name. We don't, we don't, we don't mix it. They don't, but I mean, they would have there was there was there's an author beside our booth yeah that oh well what i should what i should did was done the like i i get paid for i get paid to go to what banking conventions uh mortgage conventions cybercrime conventions and to tell my story so i i should have could have been a speaker like i probably if we put in i can see you doing that you know yeah and i got like a 45 minute

version of my story an hour version two hour version that you know 24 hour version 24 hour video It's told over six months. That's awesome, man. Yeah, so, you know, we'll see. But yeah, so the people paying, I'm sure some people, people definitely do. Some guys get in there, they're just terrified. They're scared to death. Yeah.

And I kind of just come to the conclusion, you're just going to get your ass beat a lot. You've got a slick mouth, expect to get your ass beat every once while. Eventually, they'll leave you alone. Did you get in trouble a lot growing up? Like, were you a good student and athlete and everything? No, it was a horrible. student. I was a horrible athlete. I have a learning disability, you know.

So you got, you were a troublemaker from the, from the, I wasn't a troublemaker. I just, I wasn't trouble maker. I just, I went to schools for kids that had learning disabilities. I had a learning disability, but I wasn't a great athlete. You know, five foot six, like how good are you going to be? Um, you know, I played soccer a little bit. Huh?

Mugsy Bowles. I don't know who that is. I think he's like five foot four plays in the NBA. He's the shortest NBA player. Yeah. Well, that wasn't me. So, yeah. So, no, no, I didn't get in trouble until I was, like, 30 years old. Not even like a knot, like a DUI and...

No, I don't drink. Really? I don't drink. I don't smoke cigarettes. Never dealt with drugs, nothing like that. Nothing like that. What year did you get in trouble for your... Well, the first time I got in trouble was, like, 2001, and then I was on probation, and I ran a scam.

I stole, like, 11.5 million during that scam, and then the FBI showed up, and I went on the run for three years and I stole another like three and a half million I was on the run for three years and I got arrested and then I went to prison so I had like a so it was 2000 and it was late late 2006 when I got arrested by the Secret Service um so really it was like this it was like November of 2006 so it was almost 2007 so I got sentenced in 2007 and then I got out in 2019 I got out of prison you still on probation yeah damn that's bananas when you say you when you say you were on the run for where did you go while you're on the run um i went to like when i i went on the run i like i had no money i had like 80 000 right but you can't live

on 80 000 so i went to atlanta and i stole like 400 000 and then i went to south carolina to uh Columbus and i got 1.7 1.3 million but only got like 700 000 out of the bank and then i went to and then i went to and then i went to and then i went to Nashville. Swung through Livingston, picked up $2.6 million. I went to Nashville and stole like, like, like, like it's a granola bar at a gas station. Like $3 million in Nashville. And then I was there.

So I was for like three years. So yeah, but I mean, I went everywhere. Like I went while I was on the run on false passports, I've been to Mexico, Jamaica, Bermuda, Italy. um, Croatia, Greece. Is that it? Might be somewhere else. Where'd they pick you up at? Nashville, Tennessee.

Oh, damn. That's the worst. I love Nashville. Nashville was great. I guess because I went there so much growing up, because it's so close to where I live. So I'd like to, if I was going to get arrested. You wanted to be getting off of the, getting off of my G6 in, uh, in Italy.

Actually, I guess if I, I'm going to go to the office. If I was going to get a rest, I would want it to be a place that I hated. Probably like Portland. I'd be all right. I was getting picked up in Portland. It's like,

at least I'm not in Portland. I have to go to fly anywhere. To Portland? How many lip rings do you see? A billion. In all sorts of different lips, if you know what I'd say. Yeah.

This is a lot of fun. I'm enjoying this. I've never done anything professionally before. You still haven't. I feel like this feels ironically a lot like when R. Kelly got in trouble, though, when he was talking to Barbara Walters

about not peeing on them girls. So that's kind of what this feels like a little bit. When you started talking about your buddy being molested, I thought this was so bad. He did. They got him good. He really diddled him. This makes me think of what's the,

what is the Asian guy that admitted being molested? Bobby Lee. Bobby Lee, he told, that was, I never last so hard of that I mean I never last so hard of my life

said he was brutally molested by a guy with Down syndrome He kept adding He kept adding to it Every time they thought they thought I can handle it I can handle it He added something Like you can't laugh at that

Repeatedly over the course of the entire summer When I was 12 years old I got brutally molested And he was like He was like well he had candy Oh you should have started with he had candy it's funny you bring those guys up bobby lee and like not so much brian callan who's the other guy or brandon shop who's so not funny uh but bobby lee and

like theo vaughan and uh Nate bargatsy I love those guys I yeah they are they are hilarious like I could I could imagine doing a podcast with him and just like it'd be one of those times where you walk away after two hours and you're like your stomach hurts and you wake up the next day and you're like, oh my God. I genuinely think Theo Vaughan might be one of the funniest human beings on the planet. You know, here's the- He's so funny. You know what the problem with him is that he's funny because part of his funniness is, first of all, to be a comedian, you have to be smart.

Yeah. There's just no, you know who said that in like her one of an interview where Barbara Walters was being interviewed. like she had retired and she was being interviewed and the interviewer said you've interviewed people from scientists and doctors to everybody she said who are the smartest people she was comedians immediately like i mean she was no hesitation no she's comedians she said you have to be just absolutely brilliant and fast and sharp to come up with a comedic response or those jokes the way those people are she was and those are some of the most amazing interviews i've

ever had there, some of the smartest people I've ever interviewed. And so here's what I find about Theo Vaughn is he is hilarious, but he does it in a way that you think he's not that smart. But he's got to be brilliant because his responses and the things he says are fucking hilarious. So it's like you're saying this in a way and you're brilliant and you're saying in a way like you're a bumpkin. A lot of times it's not even what he says. It's how he says it. And not many people can do that. Yeah, he's sweet. He does the whole white privilege.

Miss that. Miss that. Oh, my God. It's a green privilege, bro. What will we fine over? Let's share this plum, home boy. You think I took all your shit and just don't got it? God.

Yeah, he's good. His podcast. Didn't something happen with his podcast? I heard him. Yeah, he got. And he got. And he called that. dude out too yeah yeah it was like on news google news and everything that but i guess that guy

had got hit a bunch of podcasts uh maybe even bobby lee too he got them for millions and millions and millions of dollars it's just like a tuesday for you poor the oban yeah but he he called that that guy was doing like greasy shit though you know uh ad revenue it was something to do with that ad revenue and not paying them and Yeah, I don't know the whole deal, but yeah, he was, like, delaying the pay to, like, a bunch of podcasters. And, yeah, wait until there's a name for that when they, uh, some, some kind of scam. And they do it in, uh, the dark web guy, remember was telling us about that, where they keep withholding and they, they back it up to the point where they get, where suddenly it's like, okay, we have like three million dollars that we're supposed to pay. Or we could take that three million, close the operation down and start it up over under the, under using this name and nobody will catch us.

at Coal did that, a co-mining company actually. And then what they also did to Theo was they had started, what you said, they started the company and then they were like, what we'll do, we don't have the money that we owe you, we'll pay you in shares of this new company, and then you promote this company so that your promotion of this company makes your shares valuable because of your influence. And we keep your money. And then we keep your money. Yeah.

So they were trying to get. You must think, you know what the funny thing is? Is that so scam victims, if someone who's victimized once, you think, oh, well,

they're twice as wise. They're actually, no, they're actually more vulnerable and ready to be plucked again. Yeah. So a lot of scam people. And I've sold Lularoo

probably seven times. What? I've sold Lularoo pants. What is it? Yeah, that's how good I was that. I can't say it. My wife actually did sell.

Did she really? Yeah, I lost like seven grand on that. I might have it while you were in prison. I don't know what that is. The MLM clothing company. Pyramid scheme. Oh, okay. And all the white girls that like pyramid like that like pumpkin spice lattes at the time,

they were selling those lularoo pants, man. Don't do it. Like you're going to get taken and she's like, nope, I'm going to do it. My friend doesn't. I'm going to do it. And about six months later, I was out seven grand. Yeah. But it stopped at about seven.

And you've got a bunch of Lulu products in your, in your, I donated a bunch of stuff to Goodwill. They got me for a pyramid scheme. This is true. I got busted for a pyramid scheme. Not busted. They got me for, it was about $2,000. In 2000, that would have been 2012.

I was a Lance Corporal. I thought I was going to change my life. It was called World Enterprise. And I don't even, if you asked me what we sold, fuck i don't know man dreams a lifestyle that's what it was i wish i knew and you guys when i was out there it would have worked on me then but nowadays it would probably work on me

it would probably still work on me um they would go into target and they would approach and say hey i have this mentor and he wants to teach you how to change your life and he has this book and these classes and they're like how old are you how old are you?

Where do you want to be in 10 years? And it was like, they were going to sell you this book and they're going to sell you this program. And, like, it was always like 25-year-old couples just going through Target. Every target you went to, somebody would come up to you, hey, I have this mentor.

You want to change your life? Really? Change your life. Not what I'm thinking about it. We might be in a pyramid scheme right now. We got paid by that $159 media yet. Not this money. Fuck.

It caught me again, dude. They're going to change our life. Yeah. You might want to keep a eye out. So what was your, what was your thing? What'd you do? How'd you get them? What was the, what was the gig?

That's what I'm curious about. I know it involved real estate. Yeah, I mean, the short version is I own a mortgage company. Talk to me like I'm a three year old too because I'm a fucking idiot. I own a mortgage company. You know what a mortgage company is? Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, I do. Okay. I own a mortgage company. This is going to be a long time. The short version is going to be the long run. No, I own a mortgage company. Hold me get some blocks out. Okay.

I own a mortgage company and I was, I got into trouble. Like we were, we would change doxements every once in a while. Like, you know, you make 50,000 a year. You couldn't quite qualify for the loan. But if you made like 55, you could make it. So we changed some things here, change a pay stub. Maybe you were laid on your rent by 30 days until you couldn't get the loan. Well, I'd wipe that out.

You know, little things. But so eventually I end up, the short version is I end up getting in trouble, right? Like I was caught kind of lying on an application. That's a very simplified version. And I'm on probation. I get three years probation. So while I'm on probation, I can't run the mortgage company. So, you know, I decided I was going to start now I'm really going to start committing

scams. So wouldn't you? So I figure out how to get social security to issue social security cards to children that don't exist, right? So like a 10-month-old child, I'd make a fake shot record and a fake birth certificate, and I'd go in and say my daughter was born at home with a midwife, and here's her birth certificate, and they'd issue me a social security number. I'd then take that and I'd apply for credit cards. I'd get three secured credit cards, make the payments, and in six months, I'd have 700 credit scores. I'd then make a fake ID. I'd go buy shitty houses in an area.

for 50,000, 50,000, 50,000, and I'd record the value. I'd record the sale, not at 50, but at 200,000. So if you do that enough in an area, and I didn't do it with one person, I did it with one person after another. I had like, it increases the property value. The whole value, shut up. So now this person who has 700 credit scores and has perfect rental history, 700 credit scores, W-2s, pay subs, because I can fake all that. Yeah. This perfect borrower now owns, oh, $2 million in the properties that I paid $300,000 for. So we refinance the properties, borrow a million dollars on them, make the payments. So I would make $600,000, $700,000.

I'd make a few payments, and then my borrower would have a tragic accident. They would be in a coma or whatever, and they couldn't make the payments anymore. So the houses would go into foreclosure, and the banks would take them back and resell them. So I walk away with the money. So that went on for about 18 months. I borrowed $11.5 million. At some point, a friend of mine got busted. He cooperated with the authorities.

The FBI comes to arrest me. I'm already on probation. So they can just come grab me. So I find out the FBI is coming to grab me. I go off on the run. I take off on the run. I borrow, like I said, I only had like a day to get out as much as I could. Yeah.

We had a few million, but, you know, I had like a day. So I got it like 80 grand. I go, I borrow 400,000. I steal someone's ID, identity. borrow $400,000, then I start, I start surveying homeless people. Don't judge me. I see you judging me. So I start judging you.

You heard me? So I start doing that. And by this point, like I said, by this point, I've figured out how to get the DMV, local state DMVs to give me credit card. I mean, to give me, to give me driver's licenses. Okay. I figured out how to get the U.S. U.S. State Department to issue me passports. So, and I'm going and getting, you know, a million here. I'm running different scams for about, after about three years, boom, I get, I get, I'm,

actually was a dateline NBC News was about to come out with a special on me. And so I was going to take off. And so we're pulling money out of the banks, me and the girl I was dating. And she ends up confiding in a friend of ours, uh, who I am. And that person, that girl goes to the secret service tells them, hey, this fucking guy's Matt Cox. He's number one on the Secret Service's Most Wanted list. And they come and they raid me and grab me and throw me in jail prison. So that's it. It sounds longer. Incredible. Yeah. Oh, listen, bro, I've been handcuffed, brought it downtown question, convinced them. They had the wrong person. I didn't do anything wrong. They let me go. Were you at a hotel in Nashville whenever you got wrapped up or were you

like an airport or something? I always picture when guys let do like what you do, what you did get arrested. They're always at an airport. Walking through with a, a, briefcase all the money and the no you just set the briefcase in one spot and walk away intentionally i just no i just pulled up in my in my my truck and got on my truck and was walking towards the house and they get on the ground get the ground like fuck yeah that's amazing it's interesting would you be interested in uh and coming on my podcast at some point i would be interested I would say, I would be, I would be interested, but it's not like it's, it's, uh, it's murder related or anything. But yeah, but it'd be fun. You're, you're a fun got to interact with.

Yeah. Oh, listen. And I have, I have stories that are just something, you know, they're just ridiculously. You were in prison for 13 years. Oh, yeah. Those are. Hey, what about Zach? I got a buddy Zach who is hilarious bro he's he's he he he I love that one the one story Zach to help my buddy Zach uh he's a he's a black guy fucking hilarious but he talks like he's a white guy six watts yeah he so he listen he goes he goes to to a like a fucking pin yeah like he gets in trouble in prison and ends up going from like a medium to a to a pen he's in the pin he's in the in, he's a member of a gang, you know, that you're, that, you know, you're basically with a car, right? Like, you sit with a group of guys and they're all from, like, Florida. So he's, I'm with

the Florida car. And one day, this guy walks in and says, gathers all their group together. He's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, 10 of us in a cell. And he comes, he's like, listen, man, we go into war, bro. This dude disrespecting me. We're going to war. Uh, uh, y'all going to have to get, get your knives. You got to, like, he's like, everybody's like, come here tomorrow. We're going to have our knives. We're going to this. We're We're going to go in. We're going to. And so Zach, you know, Zach's a white collar criminal. He's like, okay, okay. They're all like, okay, okay. And Zach's like, he said, like, I'm kind of like terrified. He said, and all of a sudden, he said, like, we're all, we're all like, yeah, man, yeah, yeah. And then Zach is like, excuse me, yeah, yeah. What's up, man? What's up, Zach? He's like, yeah, what are we going to war for? And he's, yeah. He said, man, this dude, uh, tried me. He tried my, try my, try my punk.

try my boy and he goes your your boy yeah man my boy jimmy he tried him man he disrespect me and he goes well you you mean your boyfriend you're the punk that you were and he's like yeah man he tried him tried him and we we he just he can't be doing that and he goes and that goes um yeah listen i don't want to go to war over a punk bro like i make i get it he's your boyfriend kind of feels like you problem exactly and the other guys are all like yeah man i don't uh i don't just to be a flaw on the wall and watch them they're all like yeah bro we're not i'm not doing it he's like so everybody like goes like yeah i'm not i'm not doing so you're telling me your boyfriend somebody tried your boyfriend

somebody came at your boyfriend like that you know wants to be with your boyfriend and you're pissed about it and you want all of us to go to go die get a fuck i end up getting a murder charge like i'm getting out in a couple years. You want me to get him up with a murder chart? And so he was like and he said, Zach said like when we all left, guys are going up saying, man, I'm glad you said something, bro. Like I didn't even think, like I thought I didn't even know

what was going on. I was ready to Zach was like, yeah, brother. How would they have all reacted if he just said it was over two magazines? That would have been like, they think he could. Yeah, they'd be like, he thinks he could steal from me. Like then they said, we probably stabbed him. Jack probably would have stabbed them. Yeah. That's different. Like, I feel like,

I don't know. That seems like something you should take care of, dude. Listen, I've got some horrific. What about the other story with the, the guy, baby, baby, please, baby, please. I've heard that so many times. This is, uh, baby please. So I'm in the medium, and there's some massive guys in the medium, right? And I'm in the library.

So I'm sitting in the library one day and, you know, I'm writing my little, my little stories. and you know there's there's nothing but like a bunch of just you know geeky like the library's empty in prison yeah in the medium anyway at the low it's packed but in the medium not a lot of guys reading so i'm writing doing whatever and there's this gay guy right a punk sitting and the punk's probably a hundred probably six foot tall but still probably 120 pounds you know with her with her you know legs cross flipping through a magazine i mean we're talking about thin braids all the way to like like genuinely would trick you oh so like like this you're like thinking you would you know like so so you're sitting there so all of a sudden this guy walks in this fucking

big black guy six foot two six three massive lives on the rec yard comes the punk is he white or black no he's black okay it's 80% of the mediums black guys so he comes walking in and he walks up to the punk and he goes uh looks around and when he looks around everybody there's like looks down he's like uh baby can i talk to outside and she goes flips the flips the magazine doesn't even look up baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby and all of a sudden the punk goes i don't like the way you talk to me in front of your friends and he and he goes baby please oh yeah listen everybody in there humiliated for this guy and he keeps looking like we keep looking up and he keeps looking around and we're like I'm like I'm staring at the but I'm so interested in what's happening yeah

and I'm sitting there and he all of a sudden he goes baby baby please grabs by the arm maybe can we please and he goes oh and I maybe please baby please give my talk to outside baby please it's like a normal relationship yes oh absolutely Absolutely. I didn't know that happened. I thought it was like caveman rules. Oh, God, no. Like, come here.

No. Oh, no. Complete respect. You know, listen, this is the closest. This guy's got a life sentence. This is the closest he's ever going to come to a one. Right. Yeah.

And so eventually the punk gets up and walks outside. And then five minutes later comes walsing back inside, sits down, sit down. And the guy comes back in. And we're all looking down. And it's the same thing over again. Baby, please. baby girl please don't you outside baby please it was the most humiliating thing

I've ever seen my entire fucking life how do you keep a straight face I'm terrified this guy's six foot what am I gonna do bro you're a girl fuck he's already got life a shit like that in boot camp where you like you want to laugh so much but you gotta keep a straight face

yeah same thing I can relate to that what about you you're Mormon he is Mormon I know what does that me have to do with anything I'm sure they've seen some shit which y'all sacrifice the babies on my crosses or something

I wasn't there up Thursday I had to work out Thursday 1159 media is kind of like a Mormon company the owner Sam he's Mormon chase is Mormon I don't know what I am but I'm not Mormon yet not yet

he's ex-mormant Sam yet he's ex-mormon he's not Mormon anymore. It's a long time. We're doing the long time. Yeah. You should talk to the Mac Foods. All right. This is going nowhere. Are you ready? Are we wrapping this up? Are you guys want to talk about anything else? I'm good. We actually got a, we've got a meet up going on here pretty soon. So we're going to have to go, I'm going to have to go shower and everything. And we're having listeners come. And we sold out the Smokey Bones barbecue house. So are you serious? Over 17. You guys are. You guys are killing it. Nobody's done that since. Deplin. So we sold out the smokey bones. I'll tell you later.

Real quick. Where can people go to find you? Yeah. You go first. So 1159media.com or 1159 plus.com will take you to both of our podcasts as well as our other podcasts that we have available. Well, we actually have like there's like a description box. And so we can also put the links. Yeah. I think. yeah yeah and you can search true crime kent at spotify it's everywhere iTunes all that shit and do you know how many times you straight in that thing does it goes right back yeah I'm like is he not noticing that you're tight I think it's like a nervous thing like you yeah I do that in my own booth all the time too because I've got this same but uh yeah

true crime can't Spotify iTunes all the stuff it's you can find it anywhere podcast are. This has been awesome, dude. This has been a lot of fun. I wasn't, I didn't, I was telling him on our way in, like, because it all happened so fast. Like, I didn't know if I was going to get to do a podcast episode or if I was going to end up in a bathtub full of ice miss in my spleen, but it was going to be one or the other and I was down for either or. So I'm really happy that this is what it turned out being. This is so much better. Yeah. So this has been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed it. I know I don't talk a lot, but that's kind of I roll is I'm usually I slipped back into editor mode or I'm just taking mental notes.

So I'm going to take that out. Yeah, I'm going to take that out. Sometimes I'll be doing the show and I'll look down because he sits in on all the shows and I'll be rambling on about something. It's usually sexual and Chase is just. Trotting time stamps. Yeah. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching.

Do me favor. If you like the video, hit subscribe, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Leave me a comment in the comment section I try and respond to as many as possible. Also, we're going to leave all the links in the description box. And please consider joining my Patreon. Thank you very much. See you.