Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Untold Story Behind the Tinder Swindler | Cecilie Fjellhoy

Starting point is 00:00:00 This was before the Tinder Swindler. No one knew about that people would go through these lengths to take your money. I'd lost so much money. It was over $250,000 at this point. I so wanted Tinder Swindler too because there's many more interactions that happened that wasn't part of it. I did confront Simon back in 22 in Israel. As I said, I moved to London to write my master thesis. And that's what was going on.

Starting point is 00:00:21 It was like a Saturday night. I had been procrastinating, finishing this master thesis for weeks. And I was just at home just, you know, bored. actually being on Tinder, like swiping left and right. He could come over, Simon. He's 32 from his pictures, as I said, like, you know, fancy dinners, you know, nice cars. He had a picture in a private jet. And then he had his Instagram name kind of attached to it.

Starting point is 00:00:46 Right. So I checked out the Insta. And I kind of right swiped because he is my type. Like, I love a short king and I like, it is that. Everyone's been so mean to him. Like, I think, like, I hate it to say it. but he is my type, you know. Right.

Starting point is 00:01:01 So I didn't realize he was short. No, he is short. Is he? Yeah, he is short. No, but that's super short, but he's not tall. Right. But I was like, yeah. Short like my height?

Starting point is 00:01:10 Like, I'm five, six, so. Stop. I'm five six. I'm five seven. If it was a good pair of shoes. No, but I mean, like, this is what I just hate from all the, like, stuff. I was like, it's just, it's fine. So, and he had his Instagram attached to us.

Starting point is 00:01:27 I go into his Instagram at the time. And of course, the pictures just continues of this lifestyle. He knows what he's doing. Yeah. He's got a, he's set up. Yeah. It's well done. But I check his tagged pictures as well because that's what I used to do.

Starting point is 00:01:41 You know, you check, does he have friends? You know, there's other people. And yes, he has that tags him as Simon LeVive. He's been going at it for, you know, it's a long time. I can scroll down. There's tons of pictures. He's with a lot of people. And then, so I wrote it right to him on Tinder.

Starting point is 00:01:57 And I wrote to him, hi, doesn't see. seem like you're going to be here for a long time because I could see it was like traveling. No, no, I'm not. But what if we have a coffee tomorrow? And this was Saturday evening. And again, the perfect subject for this because I was like, I would, I love to meet people in person pretty quickly. I think it's boring to talk to someone for ages and then you meet them in person and they're different. Yeah, yeah. So I was like three minutes in and you're like, you know what, this is going to happen. Yeah. And you've wasted two weeks. This is what I know. So I was just, yeah, yeah, it's great. So I meet him on a Sunday morning.

Starting point is 00:02:27 or like early like Sunday for a coffee. And I have my laptop with me because I'm going to continue. I was thinking this is just a coffee date. That's over an hour, you know, and I'm going to continue writing my master thesis that Sunday. And then I meet him. He comes out. He looks like his picture, you know, very gentlemanly shows him the table,

Starting point is 00:02:48 takes out the chair for me, you know, really. Then he, you know, talks about like what he does here, you know, and that he's here for business. He's the CEO of this big diamond company. that his dad had been, you know, the creator of, and that he wanted to make him proud and was talking a bit about, like, how important it was for him to, you know, continue and do well. And, you know, so what his thing was to, you know, wine and dine clients and be the last one to, that was like part of the job.

Starting point is 00:03:17 And not only being in boardrooms and meeting rooms, but it's the social aspect of it. Right. And I asked him, I was like, did you want to settle down? And he's like, yeah, yeah, like he wanted kind of to settle down. They're all the right things. I was 29 and at the time. So, you know, I was looking for, I was like, looking for, you know, to head into my 30s with someone. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:40 I was thinking long term here. And then he talks about that as a daughter. And I was like, oh, you have, you have a daughter. Like, was nothing on his dating profile. I think now it's much more normal that you expect that. But I was like, I didn't see anyone. And then I was like, well, and she's visiting me this. this week. And I was like, oh, like, so she's here. And he was just glowing about her, how important

Starting point is 00:04:00 she was to him. And I was like, okay, fine. But now at least I know that you're a dad. And before then, you know, when you were in your 20s, normally you wouldn't date people with kids. Right. Like that has been my thing. But I was like, okay, now, now that I'm here, just let's see. And then he just, he asked me a lot of questions, just, you know, like the conversation is just flowing and I'm, you know, I really like him. And then he looks to me like, like, and the coffee is done. And then he says to me, like, oh, I've really enjoyed this, Cecilia. I'm so sorry if I laugh because it's just, when you know, everything's a lie.

Starting point is 00:04:33 It's just really triggering. But it says, like, I've just enjoyed this time with you, Cecil. It's just been amazing. But we have a business trip and we're going to Sophia and Bulgaria, but we would perhaps want to join. And I was like, oh, but I have my monocity. But, oh, well, you can do that on the plane. Like, that is not an issue. And I was like, unfortunately for me as well, it's like the perfect storm.

Starting point is 00:04:57 All of this is coming to is that I've had no things that happened in my life earlier where I regret not doing it. You know, I should have taken that opportunity. I should have done that. No, that's what I always say, right? Like you regret the things that you didn't do more than the things that you did do and didn't work out. Yeah. That's my motto in life now. You know, it's still to this day it is, even though it has gotten me into some issues as well.

Starting point is 00:05:18 So I was like thinking, okay, just say yes. And he then. And so, you know, we had a really great coffee. I'm like, and then we go into the lobby of this five-star hotel in London and it's an entire entourage waiting for him. You know what I mean? It's his bodyguard, his business partner, private assistant, his child, the mother of the child and maybe three, four drivers. And they're all just waiting for him. So he is acting like the CEO.

Starting point is 00:05:46 It's like, yeah, if you're going to say you're the CEO of a big diamond company, you need people around you too. You know, you can't say it, and then you know what I mean. So I'm like, so overwhelmed. I was like, this is the craziest shit. I'm even thinking, you know, it's like, okay, even though nothing's going to happen with this guy, what an experience just to see what this is about. I've just moved to London and this is crazy. He sends me away with one of the drivers in a Rolls-Royce, you know, convertible.

Starting point is 00:06:11 I was like, this is crazy. I talked to this driver, and he's just glowing about Simon. He's one of the kindest bosses he's had. He's invited the drivers for dinner, which doesn't happen all the time with these billion. you know, people. And like, he's so kind. He's been to Amsterdam with him and he's just great. He's kind of part of the show that, right? Or he had been there for just a little bit and doesn't really understand. That's what's sad about. I talked to him later on. He felt horrible, terrible, that kind of he was being used unwillingly. He just knew Simon and a

Starting point is 00:06:40 vibe. So he didn't know he was a con artist. But by that, oh my God, he's, he's great. Yeah. Because for the two and a half weeks I've known him, he's been great. Yeah. He takes me to self-ridges where they're there at a mall where there's just tons of, you know, he was there to buy some stuff for his child. So we have lunch there and I'm just sitting there. And all around, I'm taking some pictures to send to my friends because I think this is just what, what am I part of? This is, you know. Yeah, this is a huge production. Yeah. Like, what is this? And he buys a lot a stuff for his kid, like an iPhone, like tons of stuff. She had so many toys after this shopping spree that he went on for her. Drive us back to the hotel and then we gather everything and

Starting point is 00:07:29 then we drive out to this airport. And what's so interesting when we get to the airport, then I, you know, while all this is going on, I hear as well that the mother of the child and the child is going to join us on, on the trip. And I was like, okay. Wild. Okay. it's fine and with his business partner and stuff. So some of them are joining. Some of them aren't. We're just a lot of people. Right.

Starting point is 00:07:52 But then we get to this private airport, this private military airport where the private jet is on. He hands me everyone's passport. So I stand with everyone's passports in my hand. And I believe that is maybe the first test that he does on me. Because I have everyone's passports. I could easily look through all of them, right? Right.

Starting point is 00:08:14 Do I do that? No? No. It's to test for compliance, is to test, do I, you know, will I check stuff? Will I? Yeah, yeah. Because if I would have looked through that, I would have seen that there was no Simon DeVive on that flight. Okay. All right. He used a fake passport. That was not a Simon DeVive passport. There was no Simon the vibe on that flight. So we could have seen them that all immediately. Right. Yeah. So that goes on. We're on the private jet. Everything looks so legit.

Starting point is 00:08:45 Like, this is a huge production. This is what I mean. Like, who's dumping, like, this is, who's dumping $10,000 a day into this production for, and also for what? For you, you're, you're, like, you're a student from Norway. It's not like you've got any money. No, he's not like, you've got hundreds of thousands of all. He didn't know at the time how much money he would have been able to get out from me.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Had no idea about that. I think he knew that I owned a flat. I think, like, of course, with all the questions, like, what do you like, but the mortgage you got, yeah, yeah, come on. This private jet I got to know later on is because everyone has called this a Ponzi scheme with women, which I get very annoyed by. Because maybe as you would know, a frost or defraud everyone. It's not that a frost will say, I'm not going to do investment or business fraud. I do romance fraud, which is just unbelievable to me.

Starting point is 00:09:29 People have been believing that there's only women who are victims of this man. So like the private jet I was on was a company in London. It's a private jet and, you know, luxury car company that was taking 500,000 pounds from him. So kind of that jet was not paid by another woman Was a man who believed this guy Because if you say when you meet him He has all of this I call it immersive theater

Starting point is 00:09:53 It's like you're being put into a scene And you have no idea that this is an actor Surround you creating this It's funny it's So they used to call it the big store scam Right like you've you have every You have a storefront that looks completely legitimate And you bring people there

Starting point is 00:10:12 And there's lots of people there that know you and they see you. And so it's like he's he's got this story. All of these are employed. Like you seem it's instant credibility because he knows everybody. He's got like if he wasn't successful, he couldn't possibly pull this off. But and also, you know, most of these guys are like little old me. I'm not going to. He's not going to be able to take me for anything.

Starting point is 00:10:38 But you have no idea what's coming. And if you're right, if it was just. you, he can't pull this off. But if there's 40 of you, you know, or there's 10 of you, it becomes worth it. Yeah. But I'm sorry, but go ahead. No, no. I, because I think it's, it's so important that to just say, like, to be able to do this, it's not only as they called a stupid woman who falls for this, you know, what I mean is everyone, everyone believed it. It's, he could go into, you know, a five-star hotel, hello, Mr. Levive, you know, like what I mean is that everyone believed the act that he was,

Starting point is 00:11:12 putting up. Yeah. Um, well, you know, the, the funny thing is because I've, I've known lots of con men and I interview fraudsters and, and, uh, and everybody was says the same thing that the victims are stupid. But the truth is, if, if the victims were stupid, they would ask more questions. They wouldn't, it's harder to, it's harder to scam somebody who's not sophisticated enough to understand the scam. They ask too many questions and they're very weary. And then they don't, you know, they don't fall for it as easily. But if you're, if you're sharp, everything you're seeing makes sense. So you end up, typically these are like investors. They usually invest their money. Why? Because what he told me looks absolutely legit and it is legit. And it should

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Starting point is 00:12:56 New customers can get 15% off with code Cox at take ultra.com. That's Take Ultra Code Cox for 15% off. Let them know inside true crime sent you. If he were going to invest your money in what he'd. told you is going to, but he's not. This is all a vehicle for you to give him your money and him tell you he put the money into Forex or this stock or whatever. And he's actually over here recreating this, this fantastical life for the next victim. And, you know, you're, you know, and then of course, they can, they can usually keep you going forever too, right? Because they just say,

Starting point is 00:13:32 your money's here and it's growing. You made 6% this month. And, you know, and they- That's why investment fraud is so sad. Right. It keeps people going for a much longer period. Yeah. You could go years. Then what happened to me, you know. Right. Like, yeah. So you got, you get on the plane.

Starting point is 00:13:48 Get on the plane. Your friends are, you, by the way, I love that your friends are like, like, what are you doing? Like, you don't know. I always say as a joke because you need to have some laughs about what happened to you. If not, you're going to, you know, you're never going to survive then. But as I said, things could have gotten a lot worse for me. Yeah. It could have been human trafficked.

Starting point is 00:14:06 Right. So I was like, being defrauded, human trafficked. you know, like what I mean is that. It was, no, no, I was, I, you know, wasn't thinking that clearly, but luckily, I think I felt more safer when I saw women being around, which he knew how to use as well. Right. That there were women there. You know, the private assistant was a woman, you know, the mom, like, you felt a bit, okay, you felt a bit safer in a round that there were women there. So on the flight, everything's fine, you know, I feel giddy, you know.

Starting point is 00:14:35 There's a video where I give him a kiss on the cheek. It was like, I've always been a person that can, if I feel a certain way about someone, I can fall very quickly. It has been all my previous relationships because, of course, I was thinking, how could this happen to me? And I was looking back, well, before I've been together with someone in three weeks time. And you know what I mean? I love very quickly. And if I can feel and sense a connection, I'm like, I'm yours.

Starting point is 00:14:59 So that's what happened in this case. And then we land in Sophia. It was, you know, and then we were going to go. go and hand in our passports. And then what I think is very interesting is that when we're going to take the cars to the hotel, me and the mother of the child and the child is taken in the car by ourselves. And I've always been thinking about that later on because this woman was his victim three years earlier. That was a pretty bold thing of him to do. But doesn't she kind of back him up? But that's the thing. I think he knew that that she would

Starting point is 00:15:37 do that. She had proper Stockholm syndrome, this poor woman, because that is his child and she lived with them. Right. So I feel like, I can say a lot. You shouldn't even have been there. I think it's despicable, to be honest with you. Yeah. But, you know, so many people have judged me. I'm not the one to judge actually here. But I was asking her, because she's from Finland. I'm from Norway. I was like, this is no crazy. What is going on? Yeah, I know. But Simon is such a great dad, but I just want to keep her the child out of this crazy world. She's in Finland, but she supports

Starting point is 00:16:12 her and, you know, she had not a bad word to say about Simon. Just like, what the fuck? You're so... Could have give me an out here. You could have just, you know, you'd done something. I could never

Starting point is 00:16:27 that is my own. Like, the reason why I'm in public, I could never do that to a fellow human being. It's not even being woman to woman, but what the? you didn't need to glow about him. You didn't need to go about how amazing is. So that was another person, you know, in this, you know, as I said, humorous this theater that he's setting up.

Starting point is 00:16:49 I was like, oh my God, he's a great guy. You know, I talked to, you know, the driver. He's great with service people, which, you know, means a lot to me. I know he's a great dad and a great human being taking care. Oh, my God. It's like, I get. How is he single? You know, I get this.

Starting point is 00:17:02 Like I get this so many great stuff from other people. It's one thing if you can say, I'm a great person, but if you hear from others, oh, my God, this is amazing. And then get to the hotel, you know, I'm just excited to be alone with him. You know, we talk. He talks to me about that he was the black sheep of the family, that people have turned his back soon before, you know, all of this sob story. So you feel bad for him. You know what I mean? And I was like, oh, my God, you poor creature, you know, like, this is so sad.

Starting point is 00:17:33 And he was the black sheep of the family. because he had this daughter that is not Jewish. He's from Israel talking about that. But so he wanted to kind of make his dad proud because, you know, and this opportunity and like he was just being super vulnerable. And that Avisha, this business partner, has always stood by him. Like he was so important to him. He was the only one when he was going through other type of difficulties and stuff.

Starting point is 00:17:54 And I was like, wow. You know, I felt like close. But then he sent me home the next day and that was that what I was going to do. But I was like, I think when I was. at the airport. I was like, okay, that was crazy. But I wasn't thinking, you know, oh my God, he's going to be my boyfriend. Because I knew like he was traveling. I felt, I was so sure that he was just going to fade me out. Yeah. But it kept up, you know, like good morning messages, good night messages. You know, we were FaceTiming when he was, you know, traveling around. He kept in touch.

Starting point is 00:18:24 Like we had, you know, it was just great. So I was like, oh. And it was one time where he then, he backed a bit away, like for a couple of days, which I think was pretty smart of him, which I felt to be like, oh no, you know, it's happening. Right. Which everyone says, like, they will go full on, you know, all the time. But I think that was smart that he knew, okay, I'm going back a bit away. So she will feel a bit more that she'll, yeah, I know. She'll be so happy when I come back, meet him one time in London again.

Starting point is 00:18:51 Where I said, I just want you to kind of, you know, be happy because he was talking to me about why you had the bodyguard. Peter. That's when that came in. The bodyguard, this guy was, you know, it's funny. Now that I never knew he was. I didn't realize he was so short. But because I remember it last night when I saw the dock. And I saw he's at one point he's walking and the bodyguard's behind him.

Starting point is 00:19:14 I said, Jesus, that guy's a giant. But now that I know he's like 5'2. No, he's not 5.2. So now that bodyguard could have just been six foot. No, no. Peter was huge. Like it was the reason. Oh, like you were a bit like, oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:29 Yeah. Yeah. So I was thought, you know what I mean? what was up with Peter? Like, who the fuck? And then that's when it came in, you know, that he was doing very well in the diamond business. And if you Google the diamond industry, yeah, there's a lot of, you know, blood diamonds. It's not like, and he says that the competitors have seen how well it was doing, you know, signing all these new deals.

Starting point is 00:19:49 And they were trying to make him stop doing his job, like traveling around. So they started making kind of threats. Like he was showing me. Like, remember, my background is in tech as a career. He had a CCTV app that he went into. and he was showing me that it had been a break in into his flats in this where it was like, do what I mean? Like I would have seen and was like it was so well put out all of it. But of course he was just showing me pictures that he'd be getting, you know, funeral flowers in the mail, bullets in the mail, his family.

Starting point is 00:20:19 And they were trying to make him kind of anxious. And that's why he had Peter and they were doing some security stuff. So he told me that was the last time he could visit London for the time being. So, you know, the setup is here. but don't you worry. Everything is going to be fine. And so I'm like, okay, and it's fine. And I was then the type of person that I wanted to be there to support him.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Because as I said, he's already put up that people have turned their backs on him before. Right. I was not going to do that. I was going to. So everyone says, if it's too good to be true with fraud victims, this was not too good to be true. Do you understand what I mean? There was already some, okay, will you be fine? Are you like, are you okay?

Starting point is 00:20:59 And I could see as well, he played the act. act so well because when I saw him, for example, I was the time I met him then in London, I was like, why don't you just come home to me and we make some tacos and stuff? You know what I mean? I just didn't need to go to this private members club. I didn't need to. Of course, he wanted to, as the fucking prostor is, but he just, I just wanted to be with him because I actually liked him. But then he was there at this private members club and I could see like, does this make you happy? And I just just asked him, you know, like this is, you know what I mean? Because you're telling me about people, you know, just wanting, because there was other, was another girl

Starting point is 00:21:35 that was there at the private members club and she was just so elated being there. Because I'm a bit older, you know, she was maybe in her early 20s, you know, I was a bit older. So I was like, you know, people get infatuated with these type of things. And he was talking a lot about the diamond business. He knew everything about diamonds. He knew everything. He had, he had really, you know, grew up in his family, but I'm shook. I know, but he was just, it was amazing. But you could see that he played he played the part so well about feeling a bit not too well stressed you know so he was like and then he said i'm not going to be able to come back to london for i'm being you know what i mean we will keep in touch and said well i'm i had my 30th birthday then in february we met up in

Starting point is 00:22:19 january just on the 10th of february then i was going to be 30s so we were talking about he was going to come and see me and all of that so for my birthday you know the weeks are going every single day we're in touch. I feel like he's great. He's funny. You know, we post like it's so much from morning till evening. When I think about it now, if you're a CEO for Big Diamond Company, how do you have time to have contact with me all the time? You wouldn't have time. So that was another one that I was thinking about later on that I was like. Is the reason you think part of the scam is that he's dragging out the time period so that it's like, hey, the longer I have her drag this out and have her invested in me and show that I'm

Starting point is 00:23:05 consistent and it's a long period of time, the more she's more pliable that you become, the more invested in the relationship. Because the truth is, you've only seen them a few times. Yeah. Facebook is not, I'm sorry, FaceTime is not really sitting. It's not really. And the other thing is at the same time, it's this full-time job is doing this. You're one of multiple other people.

Starting point is 00:23:31 Do you think that's why he couldn't spend so much time with you? Because he's actually traveling to other women that he's also doing this with? Yeah, I knew. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Figure that out later. Yeah. No, no, everything you say is so correct.

Starting point is 00:23:43 It is the long game, but I think as well that he's testing, you know, as I said, for compliance. For example, when I was meeting up with him in London, I think he changed where to meet and when to meet a couple of times. I think he does that to check with the women. Will she just go about with what I say? Yeah. She's going to get frustrated? Is she going to say, will she just say, I don't have time for this. You know, you're out.

Starting point is 00:24:01 You'll out. You'll get you off. She will never give him, you know, help him out if he needed help. But I think he's, you're testing without money first. Will she just do, as I say? And he's been doing this a while. Yeah. But thanks to me, not that long as I've seen other scam artists I've been doing.

Starting point is 00:24:16 That's what I'm proud of. Fuck him. Seriously. So, I'm like, compared to the others that I've seen, you know, has been going on for decades. I'm like, yeah. But to me, what I. felt so kind of eerily was that he a lot of people say to me you know your fraud was different you met him in person you know even though it was just for a couple of times I saw him yeah these online ones

Starting point is 00:24:41 I don't get but as you say didn't meet him that many times I fell in love with him and trusted him over digital means voice notes messages right paste times you know what I mean I wasn't with them I didn't live with them it was not that I was sleeping with him every single night and like we had that bond and everything. So that is how I really relate to the online ones as well. Because I can say, because that's what he says to, I only met you four, five times. Yeah, Dickhead.

Starting point is 00:25:06 Yes, you did. And thank God. You know what I mean? I'm happy I didn't do more than that. Because your aura is just terrible. So never want to do it more. But that is what I have to say is that you can fall in love with someone. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:20 And feel a closeness to them without being in person. And that's how I relate to the online, the purely online ones. So I have a buddy, well, not a, but he's, I mean, he's a buddy now, right? What do I say? Anyway, Tom, which I love Tom. Tom Simon is a retired FBI agent. And he's now a licensed private investigator. So, you know, you can hire him. I don't know if they have that in the UK or I'm sorry. Not the same as in the use. Yeah, basically you can go to, it's almost like a private detective. He's a private police officer, right? Okay. And so you can hire him and he'll look into stuff. And he had one, you know who Keanu Reeves is? Yeah. Yeah. So he had one few months ago where this woman contacted him and said, listen, dating this guy. And I've sent him money before. And he, but this is a lot larger, a larger amount of money. And, you know, I trust him. I love him. We've been seeing it. other while and but this time he's asking me to send him some money he's having some IRS troubles they've frozen some account so he's having me send money but I used to send

Starting point is 00:26:36 money to this other person for him and now he has me sending money to this this person somebody else can you look into it and he goes sure no problem I don't have problem with that he said yeah tells her what he charges she tells him okay no problem he says uh well first what what's the name of your boyfriend she says Keanu Reeves and he goes oh okay, I'm the actor? And she says, yeah, yeah. And you've been seeing him? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Have you ever seen him in person? Well, we haven't met in person, but we've been seeing you just for like six months. And I'm actually going to see him next week. But he needs the money now. He's like, okay. So he ends up going and finding the person she's supposed to send the money to. And he knocks on the door and she answers the door. And she says, can I help you?

Starting point is 00:27:24 He explains what's going on. Okay. And she said, yeah, I, well, sometimes my boyfriend sends me money. And then I send that money here to another place. And he goes, well, who's your boyfriend? And she goes, you're going to sound crazy, but it's Keanu Reeves. And he's like, I got to tell you something. And she's, by the way, also lent him money.

Starting point is 00:27:42 Yeah. He has IRS problem. Nobody's, they've never met him. And this is everywhere. And people are, of course, like, you know, oh, this is ridiculous. This is so stupid. What's wrong with these women? Yeah, but it's, first of all, it's not just women.

Starting point is 00:27:56 And this is a 50-50 crime. It's nothing to do with this. This is a genderless crime. Right. And the other thing is that a lot of times they think, well, it's not a lot of money. It's $2,000. It's $4,000. Wait a minute.

Starting point is 00:28:08 To a Nigerian, that's, and who's doing this to 30 or 40 people a month, even if he's only making $10,000 a month, $10,000 a month in Nigeria? Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how much money that is? I don't think people realize that America's wealth is. being sent overseas and no one gives two shits because of how your victim blame the victims here. I just, for me, it's atrocious to see how victims of crimes were being targeted by very professional organized criminals are just saying you deserve what happened to you.

Starting point is 00:28:42 Well, because of that. You didn't, and I was to say like with language as well, you didn't give away your money. They got stolen. Right. I didn't give away my money. Right. That was not what happened. But I think because that's what the headline says, you know, gave away.

Starting point is 00:28:56 And then I'm like, then in the consciousness of the public, then well, okay, then you gave away your money. Tough luck then. Instead of talking about it for the issue that is really, it's like for me, like what happened to me is just a very small, very in-person example of what's happening on an industrialized stage all over the world. But like I don't think people realize how big of a shitstorm we're actually in when it comes to this type of things. And it's because of how we speak on what this crime is. It's not a violent crime, for example. It has tons of repercussions on people. Well, this is like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:32 Anyways. Yeah, later. But I'm like, yeah. I was going to mention one other thing is that, you know, it's not stupid people. For instance, Jess has, who used to be her college professor, who's, I've met him multiple times, shark guy. Who's he day? Jennifer. No, Annison.

Starting point is 00:29:53 Yeah, she's very popular being used. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He thinks he's like, is like, are you serious? Like, this is a grown man. He's, and people are telling him.

Starting point is 00:30:01 And he's like, you don't know what you're talking about. It's like, are you serious? And he's, he's, have you seen around many money? Well, a little bit. Yeah, but that little bit to you is a ton to them. And, you know, and the other thing. And then when you get back to your story, I'm sorry. One more thing.

Starting point is 00:30:14 No, no, but I'm more. Well, that's what I'm, that's where my passion is, you know. Well, one of the thing is I was going to say is you're saying that, you gave the money to it. Well, that's like me saying, yeah, Bank of America gave me that $200,000. They asked me for some documents. I gave it to them. And they sent me the money. I didn't go into the bank.

Starting point is 00:30:31 I didn't have a gun. I didn't have a note. I didn't do anything. They asked me for some W-2s and paystubs. I gave it to them. They gave me them. They sent me the money. It's my money.

Starting point is 00:30:39 They gave it to me. Well, that's funny because that's fraud. Anytime you deceive someone to obtain something, it's fraud. That's why you gave it. I'm just trying to get people to understand the crime. I mean, they don't understand the crime. I was like, well, I wouldn't have given it if I knew the reality here. Yeah, because you're being deceived.

Starting point is 00:30:55 Yeah. Did you give it to them? Yeah, because I was deceived. And that's what fraud is. Right, it's fraud. Yeah, it's just sometimes as an activist in the space, you know, it's just, especially with when the Tinder's when they came out, where gold diggers, a man would never been called a gold digger, never seen a man who comes out with a fraud story being called a gold digger.

Starting point is 00:31:14 That is very gender, though. But I feel like Simon is the gold digger here. We always say it, all the victims that have been speaking to. There's highly accomplished women who even, you know, come from rich families where myself could get more, like have a mortgage, like we've done well. for ourselves. He knows how to go after successful women. He's the one who's the gold digger who doesn't have anything. It's kind of embarrassing. The more you can laugh about this dude, the better it is for us. I love laugh. I do this all the time. And I all the other podcasts

Starting point is 00:31:44 where everybody's so, you know, they're upset and they're in tears and they're and it's so it's depressing. Like you have to laugh. Like I couldn't get through my day if I didn't. You have to listen, I had my identity. Didn't he stolen. And I stole people's identity. And I stole people's identities, by the way. And my identity stole it. You know what I had to do when I looked at it? I was like, they got me. This, this. He's good. He's good. And then when you know, then you know what I did? I had to start writing the letters, go on the website. I had to fill out the forms. I had to call the police. I had to go through all the same stuff. But I can't be, you know, I have to laugh about it. Like, I have to because it's like, otherwise you're, you're infuriated. It's horrible.

Starting point is 00:32:21 Yeah. I see you're judging me. No, but you can have several feelings about it, though. As I say, I laugh about him because he is just a horrible person who doesn't deserve. But I always been a bit concerned about the language we're using of fraudsters as well. It's very, sometimes very positive objectives. Oh, they're so good. They're master manipulators. No, sorry, like, sorry. But this is people who do social engineered, like romance frauders are using people's good hardiness to take their money,

Starting point is 00:32:52 which I think is in love for someone. I think is the most horrid thing you can do. But like to use a positive connotations for them, you know what I mean? They're so good at what they're doing. We'd never say that about a serial murder. They're so good at what they're doing. Oh my God. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:33:08 Woo! That as well, I think, is making it difficult to take the crime seriously for how awful it really is. Because we're talking about these people, like they're amazing human beings, which he isn't. The reason why I could do this is because it's a horrible human being. Do you know what I mean? And it's not that he is. Yeah. But the ending's great, by the way.

Starting point is 00:33:30 But anyway, so let's get back to, because I do love, I totally forgot about the ending of the doc. Yeah. And last night when I saw it, I was like, oh, my God. It's a very good twist. Totally forgot about this part. It's an amazing twist to it. Yeah, I know. But so, so he's contacting you.

Starting point is 00:33:46 He's still communicating with you. He's kind of, he can't come to London. Obviously, we know why. But he's still, there's still all the, all the. the voice messages, all of the FaceTime. And then at some point... The future faking, for example, saying that, you know, it starts very early, but as I said, the perfect victim in a sense that I love that.

Starting point is 00:34:07 Because that's what I was looking for, you know, what I mean, like looking into the future and see something with me. And I was like, oh, that's very cute. You know, I do the same thing. Right. And then after my birthday, I get like 100 red roses sent to me with chocolate and like a very cute note where he says, love you always, your assignment. which is maybe three weeks in.

Starting point is 00:34:30 And I was like, he didn't say, I love you in person, so I didn't take it. But now that I see it now, of course, I knew what he was doing. Then it comes to see me solely. Like he didn't have any. I was in Oslo in Norway to do some work. And he promised me that he would come and see me in Oslo. And I was like, oh my God, so excited. It was holding off.

Starting point is 00:34:47 And some hours were passing and he wasn't coming. And I was like, you know what I mean? He's a busy guy and everything. And then I get awakened up by. that he had come to Oslo to see me solely like on a private jet. You know, so he's doing things, big, grand gestures to show. And he says, I'm a man in my word. I'm keeping if I say I'm going to see you, even though it's late at night.

Starting point is 00:35:09 I'll come and see you. And when he then came, it was right after Valentine. So I gave him a very personal Valentine presence, like, you know, knows that I've written 10 things that's wonderful about you and like a book about being in a relationship with a Norwegian. and he was like talking to me about like what it was going through. I could see that I was pretty worn down, which is an amazing.

Starting point is 00:35:30 He could be a good actor, you know, because he was putting on a show how he was not feeling well. And I saw him. I felt super connected. And I think after that, that's when they knew. Let's ask her.

Starting point is 00:35:45 Right. Or I think immediately when he got that very personal present, like it's time to put on. Got her. Yeah. Yeah. in. I, because it came kind of maybe two, three days later where I got then the honor message

Starting point is 00:35:57 that, oh my God, the threats have gotten worse, you know, and I'm not allowed to use my credit card from the security team. And just for a couple of weeks, it could put me in a lot of distress. And of course, it's almost like he knew that I was at, what can I do to help? You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's perfect. I ask what I can do.

Starting point is 00:36:16 Yeah. And he asked, oh, do you have an Amex card? I didn't have an Amex card. And he says, well, it's pretty. easy to get. You can go in online and fill it out. For me, I did that. I asked him, what shall I fill in here? It's like yearly salary to get a platinum card and it says we'll put him 200,000 pounds. Do you think Ammex asked for any documentation? No. No. Fuck that. I like this all of these type of process matters here where there was many entities involved that I was like thinking back like,

Starting point is 00:36:49 where were the friction here? Then I was a UX designer. Like what? What? What the, the fuck is going on here. So I got this platinum card two days afterwards, very nicely packaged in, you know what I mean? Oh, I know. I know. And- Beautiful service. I know. I own 50 grand. I know. I was sick. It was just, fuck, horrible. So I got this card and I felt happy because I knew I could help him. You know, I felt joy. And then he started using it immediately. I then head over to Amsterdam to this flat that he says that his family owned the entire block. And this was his hiding place because his enemies had found out where he was living in in Amsterdam. So this was him. I got to know later on. It's an Airbnb. The owners were threatened by him and Simon

Starting point is 00:37:35 afterwards was horrible, the story they had to tell. But then they found an invoice where I had then paid for a rental of a Ferrari. So it's just like, I just feel like all of these private companies, I understand from the position, they shouldn't. care, but we should all care. Someone comes in and hand you a credit card with Cecilia Fjellhuy. Does anyone here look like a Cecilia Fjellhuy? Are you allowed to use this card? And he looks like a very successful businessman. Should you maybe ask if he has another credit card? This is not what I mean. Anyways, that's just my. So they saw that I had paid for a lot. So he takes me through here. I hand him kind of the platinum Amex. I don't remember that the time I visited him

Starting point is 00:38:17 where he, what started all, he was sitting there, fickling with his expensive watches. You know what I mean? Everything you think about later on is a setup in some capacity to show that he either has watches or money. Do you understand what I mean?

Starting point is 00:38:29 All of this type of smaller things. And then he says, well, he was using the word we a lot. We. We're in this now. So Amix is going to call you every single day. This is a new credit card and it's going to be blocked for usage.

Starting point is 00:38:45 Very weird that he knew that already. maybe he's done it before with Amex. That was his favorite bank. And Amex has been very quiet throughout all of these years. And I wonder why. It's a very big reason why Amex had been very quiet with everything here. Anyways. And he says then, so, you know, you need to be able to kind of, if it's blocked,

Starting point is 00:39:09 I'm going to need you to call them and ask them to get it unblocked. And I was like, you know what I mean? Like, if he was in Cape Town, I had to pretend then that, I'm trying to use the car in Cape Town. Why couldn't they say that I would see that I was still in London when I was making that phone call? First of all, ludicrous, awful. And saying like, oh, I'm trying to use 363 euros. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:39:31 Like, unblock it. And then he said, as well, we need to get the credit up. What if I employ you in my company? Biggest mistake of my life, you can say. Right. Where he then says, arries me, pretends to call someone that he puts on speaker. wondering who that person was, he must have had some back men making these fake documents. Who then says, I'm going to employ you.

Starting point is 00:39:56 And I was thinking, this is a crisis situation. I said, if they call LOD Diamonds that he was supposed to be the CEO, I will be in the system. You know what I mean? And I'm just doing this to help someone that I love out of a difficult situation. Right. But that, of course. But he's providing you all the documentation to make it look like you work for the company. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:16 So I send in those documents to Amex. You know what I mean? But when you then think about when everything comes to reality, those are fake documents that I sent in. Yeah. So I sent. So he's got you committing fraud. Yeah. You're committing fraud on his behalf.

Starting point is 00:40:33 But you're also thinking he's going to pay me back. Yeah. Yeah. But I was thinking the documents weren't fake, like that they were from LLD diamonds. Do you understand what I mean? I knew, of course, I hadn't wasn't, but I thought I was in the system. Do you understand what I mean? Like from a technical angle, I'm in the system.

Starting point is 00:40:49 If Amix calls him in the system, I believe he was the CEO. And I was like, this is just, but that's what I think is just so horrid with this, is that, of course, we are using our hands and our actions to kind of criminalize ourselves. It's horrible to think about like. But if there actually was a company called that, it would be, it would. Oh, okay. And they were from there.

Starting point is 00:41:09 Then the documents would be legit. Yeah, that's what I mean. So they had a company they could call. Right. So I thought that if they would call it, there was also. is employed. Do you understand what I mean? I thought he was the CEO of this real life company. Horrible if you know what I mean. So the credit goes up and I'm just like, in the end, in three weeks time, I got $85,000 in credit. In three weeks, let paying a single cent down.

Starting point is 00:41:34 Who does that too? What kind of professional bank is giving someone a brand new account $85,000 in credit? Well, but from their perspective, you look pretty solid. You, you, you, you I was brand new to the UK. I couldn't even get a payday loan. I couldn't even get a normal credit card in a normal bank. Do you understand what I mean? Right, but what are they pulling for your credit? Do you understand, but do you understand what I mean? Yeah, but I was brand new to the country. Right. Do you understand how ludicrous it was to give someone that is brand new to the country, $85,000 in credit? What I mean is that they are not, from my perspective, they should have been gotten a lot more criticism for their actions in this case, but I understand why they haven't been

Starting point is 00:42:13 speaking up about this. So after a while, you know, he's using this card as a drunk sailor and, you know what I mean, but using it on things that he said he was, you know, flights for his team, you know, business flights. First team. What hell, you know, but the team like, right. The people that I thought and that cost a lot of money and dinners and everything. So I was like, okay, it's fine. And I was thinking, this is just for some weeks. It's just for some weeks. And then the weeks are passing. And then after a while, you know, trying to make, he was trying to make a payment directly to Amex, that bounces. I talk to Ammex, that's bounced.

Starting point is 00:42:47 Do you know what I mean? Like it hasn't come into our account. And then Simon, of course, says, well, he's back in my account. You know what I mean? All this. Yeah, yeah. And then it comes to the point where I then, okay, we need to get, we need to have a payment down on this card.

Starting point is 00:43:01 And, you know, the transfer didn't work. And again, it was going to take several days. And that's when I take up the first loan in Norway. So I paid that down. And the minute I pay that down, maybe two thirds, I get a, call from MXS says, we know that you're not the one using your card. And I'm like, first of all, wow, it's so interesting now because now I work in fraud prevention and I refuse. It's not that it's suddenly a fraud victim no matter what, even though a bank is calling them to say, we think

Starting point is 00:43:31 you're being scammed. In my case, we know you're not. We start like, oh yeah, thank you so much for telling me. Like, if you know what I mean, I was like, I was refusing, you know, how dare you? You know, I mean, like, no, no, no. I paid it down. So they just blocked the card. maybe $30,000 still on it, but kind of, as you can see, it was a lot of money that has already been paid down. Right. And they just blocked it and was just super hostile. And that was it. And then I'm sitting there feeling such a huge pressure on me that what the, what the fuck do I do?

Starting point is 00:44:04 He's got this car. Do you call him and tell him, hey, they just blocked the car. Yeah, yeah. They blocked it. You know what I mean? And I don't understand. Like, it's so difficult to see myself from the outside now. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:44:15 Hold the brakes. Take your breather, Cecilia. Go and just be 24 hours by yourself. But this was like a relentless pressure from him 24-7. So I couldn't think straight. So what I did then is that I did what I thought was right at the time. And I offered him my master card, my Norwegian bank master card. Of course, he says yes to that.

Starting point is 00:44:38 I visited him then again in Amsterdam. No, no, I can't do that. You've done enough already. No? No. Okay. Visit him. And then there's a woman there who's a good friend of his that he said that he bought a flat for and they were going to start a business together. And she's really kind. She's making dinners for her all, talking about that she's so sad to see that Simon is going through this. He was playing the part of being really worn down and everything. Is she a part of her? She's also being told the same story. Well, but she became a mule. It's very sad, the entire thing. Yeah, I feel for her. I have never spoken to her. But I knew that she became a victim in the end. But you know what I mean? A lot of times he gets people on their side to become mules or, you know, you can join in to get some of your money back. And people feel desperation. Right. I need my money back. And that's when I'm already pretty invested in, heavily invested in everything. Yeah. And that's when he gets. Then Peter to call him and say, they found you, Simon, you know. You need to take a private jet now.

Starting point is 00:45:43 But only that is just fucking insane. Why do you do that? You're so mean. I was so scared. I was like, have we locked the door? We're looking out through the blinds. Have they found him? And he was saying, I can't leave.

Starting point is 00:45:54 Like, Cecilia's here. You know what I mean? You need to go. And then he left me there. And I was like, fuck, what the fuck? Like, you know what I mean? So the more you felt on your body that the threats were real, everything is coming, the more you're just feeling, oh, my God. And that's when I knew that he went

Starting point is 00:46:10 partying in Stockholm, you know what I mean? And I have to say, like, when I saw the documentary and I saw the party videos, I never received any of that. Because I looked back on it. I was like, what the fuck, Cecilia? Do you know what I mean? Like, were you that blind? I was like, but then I went back, no, you didn't receive any of those. You know, other people received the party videos where they're sitting, Peter and all of them. I didn't receive any of that. Because to me, he was supposed to have a very awful time. Yeah. But he was having fun on my dime because he had a card. that he could use that was filled up with money and that's when as well went back home

Starting point is 00:46:43 and that's when it upped with the attacking colbenhagen as well right so he said to these photos with blood on him where he's been attacked he's got the the the bouncers got blood on him and he's that they've been attacked and the voice messages from that was just horrible like the day after i was like and he says yeah i would never have asked you for anything you know if you thought i was bullshitting you like i could have been dead right now like we're in a war, was using very strong words, and I was like, oh my God. And that's when I went into high gear and just, I think I took up three loans in one day, three loans that, like, it was just around that time where Amex was blocked, you know, all of that, it was relentless. Like, so I lost

Starting point is 00:47:22 most of my money in just some days. Right. It wasn't that. It was like something then, and then several weeks later again. It was very quickly because he used so much money and needed, like from my perspective, tons of money. But for him, like, oh, yeah, if you can get a minimum of 10K, most likely 40 or 50. And you're like, what for a normal human being? That's like impossible to get in some days. But the lending practices in Norway was so easy. I could get like a, you know, these high interest loans in just a couple of days.

Starting point is 00:47:52 Do you have, is there a credit system in Norway? Not the same way as here. But my credit was, you know, I had a well paid job in tech. I could luckily didn't use any fake stuff for those loans. So no fake pay slips. it was my my own pay slips or my own tax return from Norway. And I was making good money and I owned my flat. That was good too.

Starting point is 00:48:12 Right. So I could get. When you own it, you mean you have to have a mortgage on it? Yeah, I had a mortgage. But I was owning. I had. Yeah, same way.

Starting point is 00:48:19 Yeah. I'm on title. I own it. There's a lien. I have to pay the lien, which is the mortgage. Yeah. But I had. But I had more of, yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:26 So if they sold it, they would get there. So I was in a very good position where from a lending perspective, I look like a safe person to lend to. But since I took up so much loans in very short amount of time. They don't know about the other loans. And yeah, for me, I didn't look at it as my loans either. Do you know what I mean? We were going to fix this.

Starting point is 00:48:42 Yeah. We were going to like, no, this is not a loan. Like I'm going to get the, I'm going to get the money back. So I like, of course, I've gone through this many times how it could end up so badly. But that's why I love research. Like, why did I behave this way? And for example, some cost fallacy that the thing, the more energy, time, commitments and money you put into anything, the heart of,

Starting point is 00:49:04 it is to turn you back. And I think because I was so heavily invested, like I was fucked there. I was fucked. Like, you know what? No matter what, like, it just needs to be true. It was easy. The money needs to come in. It's easy. People that have been victimized, it's easier to you'd think, oh, well, they got their guard up. They'll never be victimized again. It's actually easier to victimize them. And people that have already put in money, a lot of times will continue to put in money because they think if I, if I stop, I just lost $10,000. But they just asked me for another five. But if given the five, there's a chance. I get the whole 15 back.

Starting point is 00:49:36 So they give another five. And you're like, what are you doing? You know that you've already probably lost. Yeah, probably. But there's a chance they give another five. Then they give another 10. They give another 10. And then when they get to a point where they just can't give anymore,

Starting point is 00:49:48 they eventually have to come to the realization. I just lost $50,000. Really, it could have been five or it could have been 10. No, they've lost. But now I've lost 50. Most fraud victims, you know, doesn't stop because they realize they've been the fraud is because there's no more money left. That's the sad reality of it.

Starting point is 00:50:04 Like I couldn't give more money. And that's when he turned. Do you know what I mean? Like, and that's what it takes. There's just no more money. They run you dry and that's what's left of it. Did you ever see the documentary Bad Vegan? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:23 Sarma. Yeah, I interviewed her too. Yeah, you did. Yeah. She just keeps, she just, it was, you just couldn't believe. Like, and she's so sharp. She's not, you know, like, she just kept giving this guy money and believing and you're like, what are you doing?

Starting point is 00:50:40 And she's like, I know, I know. But she kept thinking by giving this, he was going to give me back this. And he was going to. And so she's just deeper, deeper and deeper. I call it, I call the analogy of like the waiting room because I need to get people to understand the situation, like the feeling of that you have. It's almost like, I think the last few weeks when I was still like just, okay, everything's going to be fine. Right? Or just like, what's the, that you're sitting in the waiting room, you know that you have to open the door and go into the doctor's office and get the bad news. But it's safer to just sit in that waiting room and to open a door and get that reality. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, you just sit there having a God awful time. That's a better place than to open the door and just know that your life is over. Yeah. That is like, because it is just like, your body is in that hot state where you just, you can't think you're being, you're just reacting to orders instead of being reflect over. But like, like, you're.

Starting point is 00:51:34 this does make sense. It's like a defense mechanism, right? Very much. You know, it's the psychology of it, I think of, I always mention this when we go to, when we go to, sorry, my wife, Jess is sitting over here. Whenever we go to Islands of Adventure or what's the other one, Universal Studio. So have you ever been there? No, I so want to. You have to go.

Starting point is 00:52:03 You have to go. So I want to. Here's the problem. Okay. Whoever designed this is amazing. The waiting room or the lines. Because if you saw, they know, if I allow this person to see how many people are in front of them, they won't go on this ride. So you know what they do?

Starting point is 00:52:22 They have a, the first room, it's a decent size room. And it's got the lines. And you look and you go, yeah, there's about 100 people in front of me. And then by the time, and there's the door. That must be where the roller coasters are. And then you go. And by the way, it looks like it too because the people are turning. And there's, and they don't, you don't see anything past that.

Starting point is 00:52:43 So that has to be the roller coaster. And the roll, you can hear them and that's it. So you go and you wait, you wait the 30 minutes to get through the 100. And then you get to the, okay, this is it, right? So you go in that room and for that, that doorway. And as you enter through that doorway and you turn, there's another fucking room. Yeah. And that room is really only.

Starting point is 00:53:04 maybe half the size. Yeah. And so you go, okay, cool, I'm good, I'm good. And then you go through that one and you wait, okay, well, it's only 15, maybe 20 more minutes. You wait, 20 more minutes. And then, but it's right through there. That's got to be the roller coaster. So you go through there and no, there's another room.

Starting point is 00:53:21 And it's, by the way, they're shaped differently. So you don't really notice how big that room. It might be like an L shape and you're like, oh, no, I go here and turn here. That must be where it is. So you go there and then there's another room. And you get in that one. And then by the time you've gone, you've waited an hour and a half when you finally get to the next room, which is huge.

Starting point is 00:53:41 You realize, I don't have a choice. I've already invested an hour and 45 minutes into this. This one looks like it's about 45 minutes. But I've wasted an hour and 45 minutes if I don't go ahead and wait another 45 minutes. And now it's two and a half hours of waiting. You never would have waited for. but whoever they have to bring in a team of psychiatry of psychologists or sociologists to put this thing together with like there's got to be studies it's so and i honestly i sit there in those rooms

Starting point is 00:54:16 after the first few rides i'm i'm although i'm irritated i just waited two hours i'm also kind of like i'm really kind of impressed like this is really amazing they really got us on this one the other one was questionable. This one's good. But that's the same thing. You put in the 10 and then you put in the 30 and then it's 15 and then it's this and then it's I don't have a good choice. I'm so deep into this. My only choice is to keep borrowing in the hope I can get back what I've already lost because if I stop now, it's a loss. That's the same thing. The ask was so small at the start. It felt like such a small ask. It was like a two weeks time.

Starting point is 00:55:00 That's what I'm trying to tell people. And then it escalates. Like they make it, you know, these bigger instances that happen. And then I'm showing when I do my talks as well, I'm showing like the relentless pressure of, you know, the messages and the phone calls. I could come 24-7 because it was traveling around the world. So it does a lot to you both physically, you know, and mentally in your body to have the feeling. And I felt that his life depended on me. It's so stupid now.

Starting point is 00:55:25 I know that. It's like he didn't. But if you can get someone to have that fear, fear and love together, oh my God, people do a lot. And I did it all. So kind of the last couple of weeks, you know, there was almost like no money to be had. Like I think at the end he said, let's go to my home country. You know, Israel and we'll fix it. I'm no idea what he was supposed to do there. I said, I can't go anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I was so drained. I was like, I don't even want to be in this relationship. I just want my money back. Like, this is the worst, the worst fucking thing ever. And he says, well, let's go. You know what I did? Even though I kind of knew that I'd been scammed, like something was goddamn awful here. I gave him some money so he could buy some plane tickets and go. Do you know what I mean? Because I was just so desperate.

Starting point is 00:56:07 But what if he can go there and fix it? Now I know he was wanted there. So I was like, what the fuck? I don't have no idea what he was supposed to do with me because he wanted me to travel somewhere to fix it. We're going to go to Israel and go to a bank and fix it together. And I said, well, I've taken out all my vacation. I was working full time as well.

Starting point is 00:56:22 I was meetings, workshops, you know, I was in corporate. I was like, I didn't have, I couldn't, I was the perfect victim for him because I couldn't travel around with him. I had a job that I needed to be in London for. So trying to tell that to him. So how it all ended, you know, like I was, I lost so much money. It was over $250,000 at this point. It was like nine loans.

Starting point is 00:56:42 You know, I had creditors with, you know, invoices coming and you need to pay you a monthly, you know, you have mortgage and you have loans now. And in Amex as well, I still had some debt in Amex. and they said it was going to send it to debt collectors in May. You know, and I was like, oh, and I sent this to Simon and said, like, what the fuck? What I didn't? You know, relax, relax. And he had this big deal he had been working on.

Starting point is 00:57:03 That's why he had to, had to, he was going to buy a hotel and everything. And it was like, that's what. And he said to me, it was like the last evening, the evening of where all of this was going to come together. It was like the night till the 1st of May. So it was like this holiday in the UK. She said, he was going to have a dinner. And he was going to, he's going to come to London. and either cry on my shoulder or pop the champagne,

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Starting point is 00:58:56 And then the next morning when I woke up, I woke up to a message that I lost. Do you know what I mean? And nothing has gone well. You know, as a frost, they say, oh, the transfer will come, you know. We tried with a check. Nothing had worked. And then that's when I knew. Like, my, I just, everything just fell.

Starting point is 00:59:11 And I was physically ill. I went to work and just wanted to throw up. Like, my body was telling me physically before I could do anything that, you know, you are fucked. So that's when I contacted Amex and said that I understand that something is wrong here and that I trusted him. And that's when they sent two then special security agents to my work on that Friday. And he showed me his ID. He says, I bet that you don't trust people anymore. But I thought it was pretty funny that he showed me an ID when I was like, that's easy to fake.

Starting point is 00:59:43 Right. So, but they, he, very old fashioned, they came in with just papers that were written down. Yeah. And they asked for a picture of him and I showed him the picture. And that's when I was like, fuck. And then he said, he's a long-term fraudster. So they recognize him? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:57 You're the last ring of three, four women. This was May 2018. But they know of. They know of. Yeah. And then he had the names of several people that I had paid plane tickets for that I, like, from Amex, you can see the names of them. And he wondered if I knew any of them.

Starting point is 01:00:13 I was like, no, I don't have seen, don't know any of them. And that's what he just wanted me to, you know, explain what happened. And that they said that they're collating a case with all the victims and they were going to send it to the police in London, you know. And just sit tight and we're going to handle us. And they even said to me, we'll silence him for you in a week's time. Bullshit. No, what I know. They'll silence him.

Starting point is 01:00:37 Like that they will, they will help me with this. Oh, okay. And I was like, so I asked, what should I do with Simon? And, you know, I still was sending I love you. You know what I mean, send in love you. Like, I hadn't told him that I knew like, because I was like, so I didn't know. Like. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:52 And that's what I was thinking, like, all fraud victims wants to help out. So I was like, well, I can get him to come to a place in Amsterdam, you know? I knew where he was staying. I can get to come and we can arrest him. I know it's stupid now. Now that I know what I'll have long fraud investigation's sake, but I was like, let me help out. So for over that weekend, I was crying my eyes that I had a friend visiting. It was just terrible.

Starting point is 01:01:12 I was like shaking. And every single time I still had like Simon with the heart and just like saying still, I love you and like everything's going to be fine. But he had started to turn on me as well. He, you know what I mean? Like he hadn't win. So he said that when I was started to ask more questions, which I wish I had done more of earlier on because his explanations didn't make sense.

Starting point is 01:01:35 So that he called me an imbecile on the phone was, you know, if you see in a Tinduswinner, how he was when he can get angry. That's how he was on the phone with me. that he was going to jump off the building. I mean, that it was, I got one of the messages. That he was going to jump off the building? Yeah, because he had lost his, like one of the messages from him to me was that, that he would appreciate some care and that I was next to him, not the other way around.

Starting point is 01:01:57 He's lost 75 million. And I was like, do you know what I mean? So luckily for me then, my detachment with him has started to come already. Because as I told you previously, I've just had great relationships. I've never had a boyfriend talk to me like that. I was like, you're not my boyfriend anymore. And I already said, I don't want to be in this. So for me, it wasn't that I was,

Starting point is 01:02:16 like an abuser. I wasn't allowing myself to be talked to like that. And I was like, I wish I would have asked more questions. And then he would have maybe perhaps shown that side of him earlier on. So he was not my boyfriend. I went then back home to Norway because I had nothing in London, reported him there. And that's when I blocked him.

Starting point is 01:02:35 That's when Peter wrote to me, you blocked Simon. He's wondering why. And that's when he made the threatening voice note to me, like for every action is going to be a reaction. And then when I started doing some, because I was wondering who was this woman that I met in Amsterdam? Like, who was this person? So I contacted her on Facebook because I was like, I found her because I had made a transfer from me to her for $2,500. So I had her name.

Starting point is 01:03:03 And I found her. I was like, that's the girl. I've sent her money. And she must have gone straight. to Simon. Why is Cecilia? But I didn't write anything in the message that I knew

Starting point is 01:03:13 that it was defraud me. It's like, hi, were you the girl in Simon's flat? But she contacted him immediately. And that's when I got like this email that was just horrible. We know you,

Starting point is 01:03:22 your friends, your family, back off. Don't think you're Sherlock Holmes. You can play with fire, but you will get burned. Very threatening. Like,

Starting point is 01:03:30 this is not a threat, but a warning. Do you understand what I mean? Just God awful stuff. He knows how to skate the line, kind of, right? And he called you at your mom's house, right? No, my phone.

Starting point is 01:03:42 No, my mobile phone. And then I thought it was like your mom's. No, but he knew where my mom was staying. He had all my passport information. He knew my flight. He knew everything. Right. And at this point in time, I didn't know what he was capable of at that, exactly that time.

Starting point is 01:03:57 I was like, and that wasn't as scared for him, but I knew he had other people around him. So we know you, your friends, your family. I was like, this is more than just him. What is going to happen here? But luckily for me I was just For me I was like What the

Starting point is 01:04:10 You did this fuck Like for you do I mean I was more angry Than sad And anger I feel fuels you in a much better way Sadness makes you feel sorry for yourself And pull your poor me And I was like what the fuck

Starting point is 01:04:23 He mess with the wrong woman I was livid And so when I understood The horribleness I was in For example when my mom She was the one who can't like I was put into acute psychiatric ward Because I

Starting point is 01:04:35 the relentless pressure from my creditors and everything that I kind of had done to myself. And I think that's what I think is so sad with fraud victims, that yeah, we've done this to ourselves. Right. Taking up the loans, transferred, you know,

Starting point is 01:04:49 just going by with it. There's a lot of things that you need to deal with. So I was going through all of that. Accused after Gward, my mom was handling all my finances. What a woman. You know what I mean? Contact.

Starting point is 01:05:01 And she said they're not going to, they're going to hunt for these money. Cecilia, you know what I mean? I just sell the flat. And that's when I was like when the police was just, this is just a boyfriend who tricked you, you know, he gave away kind of that type of feeling. I went to the UK police as well when he made the threats against me. But you know what I mean? I can just sense that this will take time. That's when I then went to the Norwegian newspaper. And I was like, just to be believed. Because I felt people were like, I was like, I wasn't a private jet. Yeah. This is, I've never heard of a fraud case like this. I've heard about the Nigerian princess.

Starting point is 01:05:33 you go to Western Union, you send away some cash. I never heard. This was back in, you know, before the Tinder trailer, no one knew about that people would go through these lengths to take your money. As you said, what did he get back from taking me on that private jet? How would I know? How would he have known? So that's when they were the ones who were like, oh, the day after, what is this?

Starting point is 01:05:53 You know what I mean? And that's when I sent over. And then I got from one of the men from Amex, he called me the special security agents because he wanted to give me some answers, which I appreciate from him. And he gave me Shimon Heed. Hayyuts and he said please Google that name and that's when I find the Finnish article from 2015 where he had then defrauded five people from Finland and had been in prison for two

Starting point is 01:06:15 years there and everything kind of made sense he's a convicted fraudster he's a criminal how much how how how much you get from them think it was up in the hundreds of thousands there too but that was four or five in total I think he learned from his mistakes there right too many victims in one country. Just they put in one country, the police in the end will get to you. Just jump around and no one cares. This is what I hate. And from the neuro-reed journalists, they got the court papers.

Starting point is 01:06:45 So that I got all the victim's names and I googled all of the victim's names. And on Facebook, then that name popped up and then I saw that was a woman that was on the private jet with me. And I was at work that day and I was like, you know, it's so disappointing. so many ways. And the women has been more disappointing, not like that than the men, you know, if you meet someone like her and you would be thinking, you were a victim too. Why wouldn't you want to protect others? And why were you there? And I spoke to her later on because she was very, she was very upset with me. And I said, well, there were so many women there that weekend. I couldn't, you know, warn them all. And said, why were you there? Right. You shouldn't have been there

Starting point is 01:07:24 in first. Like, well, she's been at this point, she's being taken care of by him, right? Yeah, she's benefiting from the scam. So it's advantageous for her to help facilitate what he's doing. Yeah. So there's a lot of things that you had to deal with. And then the first Tinder swindler then comes out and kind of... That's the article, right? That was the article.

Starting point is 01:07:48 And that was more like a scrolling documentary kind of was like a very new way of telling a story. Okay. So that's how we got viral where it was like the normal virality where it's big in Germany. then we got people from Brazil, you know, like that's how it, how it was. Right. And were these interviews with you? Yeah. Okay. So that's the first question that journalist asks me is that she asked me. It's me back in 2018, you know, just like, why do you want to tell this story? And I just say to her, like, I don't really want to tell this story. And that's like the, it's not, it was out of desperation. I haven't had been able to talk to

Starting point is 01:08:26 tons of producers and directors. Do I want to tell my story? Is it worth it? I was like, I want to, you catch like he's traveling around and with how many others will he do this too. So in half a year's time they made that and he came out and that's when he had to go into hiding because people were looking for him and that's. Oh, that's when the one, what is the woman? Eileen. Eileen. That was the article. That's my boyfriend. Yeah. That was the article that saved her kind of. This is what I mean, how important it is to speak up. Yeah. There's many ways why I shouldn't I've spoken up. Like, my Google search were never the same again.

Starting point is 01:09:02 You know, the amounts of commentaries about me and Parnella on what type of women we were, you know, is horrible. So, like, but we do it because it's the right thing to do because we knew the police wouldn't do their job. And we could see that. We can see that nothing has helped to catch him. Yeah. If you're going to put yourself out there, you're going to have to get thicker skin.

Starting point is 01:09:22 You know what I'm saying? Oh my God. Very quickly. You have to realize, like, people are, say, all kinds of horrific things. Yeah. Yeah So So she sees that

Starting point is 01:09:35 She sees that She contacts you? No She contacts Perilla I think Oh okay Not exactly Oh that's right

Starting point is 01:09:44 She contacts her first And and But Simon's got her He's saying this all lies It's spread It's spread by my enemies These women were paid To create this false narrative

Starting point is 01:09:57 It's all lies and she plays along with it. She's like, oh, okay, yeah, everything's good. And then takes his clothes and then in the end, kind of he's arrested for the use of a fake passport. So what happens? How does she tell that part? Sorry, real quick. So she realizes, oh, no, no, you're a scammer.

Starting point is 01:10:17 But she also knows. And she's already lent him money. And how much does she lent him? I think it was $140,000. God. Yeah. And so she's thinking the one thing she knows she can get to from him is that he's got a ton of designer clothes. And so he's in hiding.

Starting point is 01:10:38 So he's at the rate this guy's spending money. He's going under quick. So I think that's what's so amazing. It's like, like he didn't put anything outside? Like he didn't put anything outside. I keep thinking like, bro, you can't think this is going to go on forever. That's just what I think is so interesting with him. I believe it must have been some, but like he was using the money.

Starting point is 01:10:58 You know, he was using the 250,000. So, like, I know that there was no money that he was holding off to. I would have seen that if he was just sending suddenly a larger, no, no, he was using all of it. What is done, we've been trying to find. But, yeah, she just was thinking, if I could get some money back, you know, I have, at least his designer clothes are real. His watches are fake, but the clothes are real. Right. I have, I paid for a lot of that.

Starting point is 01:11:21 Like, it was Gucci. I was like, Berber, like, he went on, like, I had that in my, in my, that I paid for. So all of these clothes have value. So she was thinking, you know, we're desperate. We're all desperate when it comes to that. And she was like, at least I have an upper hand now. He's in hiding because of the article. And like if I can then have the upper hand now and kind of get the clothes from him.

Starting point is 01:11:41 So she got the clothes from him, met up with him, got the clothes. And then she got back home safely and then she started selling it. Right. And he was hoping to get the money for it. But what I mean is that what I think is so interesting to see is that how important it is with several people, you know, If we hadn't gone public, she wouldn't have been able to be done. It was because he was in hiding. Yeah, that always...

Starting point is 01:12:01 He always had the upper hand. And suddenly he was just, he had nothing. And then we can see how small and miserable he is when you can't take advantage of anyone. So for me, that was an amazing ending to the documentary. Yeah. I love, like, I think it's like to see someone get back at him. Like, that's how they, these type of people need to lose. They need to feel that someone is defrauding them back, you know.

Starting point is 01:12:25 That's what I mean. Did he real? Was he? Because the messages he's sending her. And it's so funny because on it's, it's clearly not an act at this point for him. Like you can see him. He is going through this emotional rollercoaster. He's, he's, he's begging. He's pleading. He's furious. He's threatening. He's then he's apologizing. And this goes over what, weeks and weeks or months. And then eventually he's actually in, he actually ends up in like a boarding house or something or a hostel. A hostel. A hostel. So he's not. up in a hostel and it's like, it's like it's a one star hostel. And it, but wouldn't you think that you would be embarrassed over that? Isn't that awful that he's, that he, most people after you're being made a laughing stock of the entire world, you would want to be seen. Yeah. And, and you, you would think that, but you have to understand. He has no empathy.

Starting point is 01:13:19 I know, no. So, so he doesn't even have. But it's a big ego. Like, your, your ego got a proper hit there. The thing is is No, no, I know what type of person is. He doesn't care, but I love like most people would be, oh my God, this is embarrassing. I'm going to hide away forever.

Starting point is 01:13:35 Yeah. But yeah. The thing is that for him to have kind of just blown through all that money. And you can see he's blown through it. Like he's on yachts. He's on private planes. He's like the amount of money that people, people, I don't think people realize how expensive it is to live a lifestyle like that.

Starting point is 01:13:54 Yeah. And so the money's gone super quick. But the other thing is you doesn't need to do that, right? Like the amount of insecurity that he has to have in order for him to have to have to create this complete illusion just to get the admiration of these people around him. he deep down must feel so small. Like does it make sense? Like the insecurity that you're willing to blow, you're willing to rip off all these people,

Starting point is 01:14:31 which you don't care about them. I get that. But the fact that you're willing to get millions, because let's face it, the estimates, what, like $10 million? He's gone through of all these people, these women. You've come up with this scam.

Starting point is 01:14:45 You've been running it for years. You're to get all this money, to live this life. lifestyle to impress these people that don't even know you. And it's to create this fiction, like he has to be so overwhelmingly insecure. And then he's begging her to send him just a little bit of money so he can at least not have to stay in this shit hole. We just want a lottery ticket. Yeah. Just a lottery. Yeah. No, it's just. I mean, it would those phone, those were so pathetic. And I was thinking it really was like it was great. Of course, the best, the better end would

Starting point is 01:15:20 be he gets 20 years. But he eventually does get arrested. She, she arranges it so that he is in a place where he can be arrested. They, no, no, but it was, but it wasn't what we wanted, kind of. We didn't want him to be caught just for a fake passport. We wanted him to be caught for the fraud that he did in Europe. Yeah, but they're like going to, they're going to do that. But he could have. Yeah, why, why aren't, why didn't they or why couldn't they? Like, what's? Well, you have to ask the police about it, but I really believe that it was more like the lack of collaboration in cross country with the police that none of them seemed eager. I know that this case was not talked about fondly and some of the police stations, but that is just the nature of it. What I mean is that

Starting point is 01:16:06 we didn't want him to be sent back to Israel. Yeah. We didn't want him to get away from, you know, being in Europe. So that's what I think is sad about it, but it is what it is. The sentences in Europe also aren't. But I think all victims want justice in their cases. Yeah. Like for me to start, like an I and I, I was made a suspect with the with UK police because I told you about the fake passports. Right.

Starting point is 01:16:32 What do you think UK police did in my case? What? The right thing or the wrong thing? They came into my flat almost a year later with body cameras with a search warrant for my phone because they made a case that I had met Simon Leviv and defrauded amex together. Right. That's what they're after almost a year. And then they spent almost a totally extra year just to figure out, oh, no, you're a victim, Cecilia.

Starting point is 01:16:55 So we're dropping the case against you. But we're dropping your case against Simon as well. But during that year, you have to think you may end up in jail. Thank you. Yeah. So, of course, I'm not very happy with. Like, I don't trust police at all anymore, especially not the Met Police. But I always said, and I said, this is what's so sad about it.

Starting point is 01:17:15 Simon doesn't have his name on anything. You know, the fingerprints was all mine. But I think, like, what we know about romance fraud now, they said that they were not going to do the same thing. But so when he was arrested in Greece for the use of the fake passport that you see in the documentary, I didn't get any information about that. Because I was a suspect with him. And I was like, this is a guy who's made death threats against me.

Starting point is 01:17:40 And you're telling me now that I am not being viewed as a victim in my own case anymore. So they took that away from me. The entirety of being viewed as a victim, the police took away from me. So when I always say like victimhood or being viewed as a victim and like, oh, you need to go into survivor mode. But I mean like for a lot of fraud victims, we need to even fight to be viewed as victims. Right. You know, a lot of people don't view us as it's a victimless crime. You did this to yourself.

Starting point is 01:18:05 So I'm always trying to say it's so important that you, when I talk to, you know, victims of this crime, I said, you are a victim of a horrible crime. But it's difficult to get justice in this. You know, there's too many of us for the police to kind of take all cases on. And I can say, I'm with you. I never gotten justice in my case. So, Colby, to answer your question, is that it's that they're, basically the police throughout Europe. You know, because this is happening. These are wires that are bouncing all over Europe.

Starting point is 01:18:32 Like any of those jurisdictions, you should be able to claim jurisdiction over it. The wire went through our banking system. It's bank fraud. But they're saying, no, no, you just sent your boyfriend money. He asked you for money. You sent it. You didn't have to send it. It's your fault.

Starting point is 01:18:47 Not taking the consideration that I was defrauded because it was, he used deception to get me to send him the money. Which is funny because in the, in the U.S., like I think he'd be doing 15 years, you know, maybe 20. Especially if he has a criminal record, even another country. The FBI was on to him here as well. But it's just a slippery, slippery yield. Everything just falls through the cracks. It's just like, I'm just trying to think like the more successful I. him, he's more angry with that.

Starting point is 01:19:15 So I'm just trying to think the better I do, the more angry is. So that makes me happy. It's actually, that's the saying, right? The best revenge is success. Yeah. So I'm like, he's so angry with the success. All the women from the Tinduswinder have. So I'm like, yeah, let's continue.

Starting point is 01:19:28 Let's make him feel like he fucked up meeting me. I think he thought that I was the proper milking cow, that I would never do anything like this, you know, what I mean? Like, if it wasn't for me for how long would you have continued doing this? That's what I'm thinking up, you know? So, I'll, I'll. lot of people they don't you know when they're when they're taking advantage of and they become a victim a lot of people don't want to they don't want to come forward they don't want to say anything

Starting point is 01:19:53 which is what you're saying you know saying and by not doing that then get you're just passing it on you're just allowing them to hit another victim and another and we've we've done we do a podcast called the murder men and where we talk about serial killers and there's multiple times when two things happened. One, like the police just, they don't follow up a lead, you know, so that person could have been caught here. They, they, they, they don't follow up. Well, that person, that guy went on and killed someone else because you didn't follow up. Or some woman is, you know, is, you know, assaulted and she's, she's assaulted and she doesn't want to, she didn't want to plead, I mean, sorry, she didn't want to go to trial or she doesn't want to, you know, she, I don't want to tell the

Starting point is 01:20:38 please. You know, I just, I'm, okay, yeah, but that guy could have gone to jail for five years for what he did to you and or who knows, maybe some states, 10, 15 years. You don't want to say anything. And as a result of that, so you'll, yeah, I just don't want to, I just want to be bothered. Well, wait a minute. This guy has a serial. And you're not going to say anything. Well, no, I don't want to have to testify. Okay. Well, you just, so he goes free. I don't want to be involved. You understand he's this. He's done this many times. He'll just do it again. And sure, sure enough, another one and another one and another one. And then they catch him. You had the chance to stop him here.

Starting point is 01:21:10 You did nothing. Like, I understand you're a victim, and I'm sorry, but you have to stand up for yourself and you have to do something. If not because, if not for you, don't let him hit these other five women. Like, he's going to rape these other five women. You could have stopped him. So I've just seen it time and time again in so many of these cases, especially for all the cases, because people feel, oh, it's money. They're embarrassed. Or there's no points, you know.

Starting point is 01:21:32 We heard so much that people like, it's not prioritized. Everything gets like, what's the point here? Right. But by that. like I had some cases, you know, where they've gone on for a decade, and there hasn't been filed a single report. And I asked what didn't, and then it's too late. And then I'm like, also, we can't.

Starting point is 01:21:48 So the more hits a person, you know what I mean? Like, no matter if you think the police will just drop it, it's so important that you still do it because at least it's hit on the person. They know someone filed for fraud six years ago. So when they, at least there's something in the history here. That is kind of my thing with it. It's like, like I, and I'm the perfect example, never gotten justice, you know, but it was so important.

Starting point is 01:22:08 still go to the police and go through that even though it was made of suspect you know what i mean at least it's the hit on his name in the uk for example you know it's still important it wasn't a waste right well so he he ends up getting he ends up getting arrested on a fake passport he it does a few months in in in israel whatever he's out there that was because he's always been a frosters it was used he was forging a check back when he was a babysitter in his role so he got a year for that no he's always he's he's he's horrible yeah so he was just old stuff from 2011 that he went to prison for them. And then he was out was out because of COVID in May 2020. So you you're now doing, you have a series called, what's called? Love Con Revenge. Love Con Revenge.

Starting point is 01:22:54 Is it on Netflix? Is it first season, second? This is second season, right? It was first season. Oh, this is first season. Is there going to be a second season? We'll see. Oh, okay. It's funny because probably whatever six months ago or something my wife and I watched several episodes yeah and uh there's a woman that's like an investigator right like she follows yeah yeah she follows them around and and uh what was it there's a one guy you guys kind of confront him yeah it's a lot of you know what you know it makes me think of uh dirty johns like that's what i always think of these guys yeah they'll they'll meet some woman and then they run up their bills and then they take off and kind of leave them behind

Starting point is 01:23:39 and then you guys track them down. But this is, it was a lot more serious than that though. Like I think the one where we had, we had Ricky that kind of lied about him being, you know, a prestigious army veteran, which he wasn't at all.

Starting point is 01:23:52 And that his best friend had died for him in battle. And his best friend had a family and he needed to support that family. Oh, that's a great story. And that his dad, and yeah, that his dog had cancer. You know, like,

Starting point is 01:24:03 it's just serious fucking shit. And so that's what he did. Horrible. So yes, we did a confrontation. Why I wanted confrontations in this one is that I did confront Simon back in 22 in Israel. And for me, that was so amazing because, as I said, I just blocked him. I didn't do. I never talk to Simon after everything would happen because I was like, you're a fraudster, you lied to. Like, there's nothing you can say. No, he's not going to. She's not going to. Yeah. But then there was a documentary being made in Israel with Kate Conlin, which he defrauded as well. And then there was this, this. host of this show, he was known for doing this kind of confrontations with these criminals. And I was like, again, my motto was, I would rather regret doing it than not doing it. So I did confront him.

Starting point is 01:24:46 And I was just so amazing to stand in front of him with a film crew and see him just yelling, you know, yelling all of the fanities because he doesn't have any back. You know what I mean? He's just a lawyer. Of course, I didn't confront him with the notion that you're going to say, oh, I'm so sorry, Cecilia. Like, that is not why I do it, is to show, like, look at who I. am right now and look at who you are and that's what I want.

Starting point is 01:25:09 So that's why we're doing confrontations. But Simon is a special type of person. Simon loves to play it up. Most, as I said, Frosters are not scary or dangerous, you know. They just walk away. Ricky walked away. We did it the same with Dory and it was the fake doctor.

Starting point is 01:25:26 Oh, yeah. So sad story. Yeah. So sad story, you know. What I mean is like, anyways, these are just horrible people. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:34 But you can see from when we filmed that, they just walk away. Simon was the only one that yelled back and created a scene. So, like, they are just different types of personalities. I think I found the worst of the worst when I first met, because the other ones walked away and are more, you know, callous and like this. I don't want to deal with it. But, yeah, that show is just amazing because so many people reached out to me after

Starting point is 01:25:55 the Tinder Swindler. I was like, how did you do it? How can I get justice? How can I, you know, get a Netflix documentary? I want to do the same thing as you. It empowered people to stand up against people who have wronged. so much and they might not get justice in the justice system, you know, like they're not going to get the police to take them seriously. But I want this fraudsters to be scared that they might

Starting point is 01:26:14 end up on Netflix. If there's one in-person fraudster that might think, oh, yeah, I might do that. You know, that might happen and you're not going to do it happy. That is what I wanted with the show. And just tell more stories that people will, these are people that exist in all communities. They will lie about anything to take your money and be careful. You're the Chris Hanson abroad. Well, like, yeah, I love that. Yeah, that is insane. Yeah, I've watched that when I was younger.

Starting point is 01:26:42 Oh, my God. It's like, but what I mean is that this is, I just want to show the realities of what they do to humans, you know, and that is, this is a much more serious crime. As I said, we can laugh about it, but I think it's so important to have that seriousness about it, like the long-term consequences it has for humans, for example, that take out their 401K, take out their pension. then they get a taxable on top of that. They lose our houses.

Starting point is 01:27:07 I lost my flat. It's like, you know, marriages get broken up. You know, bankruptcies. I had to file for bankruptcy back in 2020. I haven't had been able to have a credit card for six years. Today is the first day where my bankruptcy is off my files. So hopefully I can finally have something on credit again. Do you understand what I mean?

Starting point is 01:27:23 It's just, and for example, mental health and money issues as well, when you finally have tons of debt, you never been put into this category of this bad person who can't handle their finances. It does a lot to your self-esteem. So I'm like, I'm trying to get people to see the bigger picture. Like the finances is one thing. But it's about trusting yourself again, too. As I said, I've been a good picker of men.

Starting point is 01:27:46 I had great relationships and suddenly like, what happened there? Like, how did I go so wrong? He would have been a great pick if what he was telling you was true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What I mean is that I think just entrusting yourself at finances, like the decisions you're making is just so many aspects of it where you, and you have to forgive yourself and rebuild your life. And that takes so much longer because of the financial and, you know, the practical issues that

Starting point is 01:28:11 you end up being in. It's just, it's just a nightmare. It's a proper nightmare when this happens to you. When it's so much money that it changes your life, that you know, like when you look at the, but I looked at the debt and I was like, my life is over. Yeah. That's what I thought. Well, it wasn't though.

Starting point is 01:28:26 Yeah. It wasn't. It feels like it back then. Like, is there anything that the Netflix shot, The Netflix doc didn't show, or is there anything that happened since then? No, I, like, I still wanted Tinder Swindler too because. Because there's so much that just was on the, what, editing floor or? Afterwards, this horrible creature.

Starting point is 01:28:45 I think there's just, there's many more interactions that happened that wasn't part of it. But for me, overall, it told the story pretty good. But it's so much that happened has happened afterwards. As I said, he's been out since May 2020. For example, we went over to Israel. testify against him in court because the real Levi family sued him for the use that he used their real name. They had to change the name of their company because of him because they got so many one stars because they thought that that was his fake company that he set up. It's a real

Starting point is 01:29:15 diamond. It's a real family. We met them. We made a bracelet with them like back in the day. So I was like we were like really trying to try to help them out, you know, to say that. He said, I just changed my name to Levi. Everyone can do that, you know. Well, as I said to you, I have the documents from LOD diamonds that was employed by. So on his email signature was president of LOD diamonds. So it was like we had a lot of documentation. Unfortunately for us, that got dropped as well. So it's like, but that is kind of where I feel is that we've been trying to get justice.

Starting point is 01:29:50 But I feel like we need a second part. We'll see if we ever get it. But I feel this guy is, yeah. I mean, in the end, at some point, it's. It's his name's out there. It's just going to get worse and worse. And like, let's face it, being a con man, it's, there's no retirement plan. No.

Starting point is 01:30:10 And he's, eventually he'll run out of people or he'll get too old. He'll get, and he'll end up. He's going to, there will be a time when he looks back on, on the ruin of his life. And he'll realize he has nothing and he's just destroyed. And he'll, he'll die a miserable existence. Yeah. And he's just miserable right now as well. So I'm like, I'm pretty.

Starting point is 01:30:30 I get some tidbits of, So happy about to hear how awful he's doing. But yeah, for myself, because when everything started with this, I started a non-profit for romance fraud victims. So if people need any support or help or if they have any loved ones that they feel are in a romance fraud and they don't know what to do, there's a lot of resources on that side. It's called love said.org. So people can get practical help and we have a lot of things that people can read and learn more about romance fraud on there. So that's maybe what I'm most proud of because I was like when it happened to me, I'd know where to go. So this is an organization that is specific before romance fraud victims.

Starting point is 01:31:08 And I came out with a book last year called Swindle Never After with Parnellah that people can read more about. And that's even more about the behind the scene stuff about like wasn't in the documentary and stuff. But as well with export opinions, as I talked about the sunk false. I care so deeply about how we humans react a certain way because we're just humans. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It just works. And yeah, I'm online on Cecilia underscore on Instagram if you want to follow me there. But yeah, if you want to see what I'm up to.

Starting point is 01:31:36 And there might be some more TV in the future. You never know. You can see. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so get notified videos just like this.

Starting point is 01:31:45 Also, if you want to follow Cecilia, go into the description box. We're going to leave the link to her book. And we're going to leave the link to her website and all of her social. So you can go there. You can follow her. And you can check out everything that she's doing. Once again, I really do appreciate you guys watching. Thank you very much. See ya.

Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Untold Story Behind the Tinder Swindler | Cecilie Fjellhoy

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