Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - The Vacation Empire That Allegedly Hid a Massive Fraud | Disney TImeshare Scam Exposed

Episode Date: July 25, 2026

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I created a script of pure heat that's like straight fraud. I'm calling my friends, and I'm like, hey, look, quit your job. I'm going to literally make you life-changing money. And I'm talking millions of dollars. The FBI runs in there. So I left. Upon arriving in the Dominican Republic, look over, it's a police officer, and he's got a piece of paper with my face on it. My dad was stationed

in Kevlovik, which is the NATO base in Iceland. Ultimately, I got enough trouble where the CEO of the base, the captain of the base said, hey, look, we're going to kick him off. So my dad thought it would be a great idea for me to move with my aunt and uncle in Atlanta, Georgia. And it was very interesting because this actually was probably my first introduction to crime. My aunt was the head of in Marshall's distribution center for the whole southeast. And that's kind of where all the trucks and would basically congregate and distribute throughout the whole southeast section.

And I remember when I first moved there, my aunt gives me this huge bag, like a bag full of like clothes, you know, starter, guest watches, clones. And I was like, I've never even seen these kind of things in Iceland because, you know, living in Iceland so secluded. You know, you see these things and you want them, but they're just not available.

So seeing those things, I was just like a kid in a candy store, you know, and I've always had a passion for fashion. I never questioned it, you know, I just thought it was something that my aunt did. But it would turn out that every Sunday I would wake up because she would work their third shift, and I would wake up to a huge bag of goodies. I mean, she's pilfering the trucks that come in. She's grabbing the best stuff. What turned out is she was running a bootleg operation in Atlanta.

She ended up going to the feds as well. Yeah, they would basically rent homes and they would basically turn them into shopping centers for people to buy discounted on the discount. She had a truck driver that she would work with and just let them drive off with a whole 18-wheeler. So. She's kind of a gangster. I see who she said, oh, gee, I always tell you're the original gangster. Yeah, for sure. I noticed when I first got there how life changed dramatically.

Everything in the house is new. This is when big screens were just brand new. You had those big, huge ones. So big screen TVs and money everywhere. I remember my aunt telling me, hey, listen, can you sweep up the floor? Which is a normal chore you would do as a kid, and I'll get 20 bucks for this, 20 bucks for that. And I'm like, 60 bucks by noon time, you know, just doing basic household chores that would have to do for free. And I noticed just how life changed from that point.

And I knew something. I'm not, you know, I'm above average intelligent person. I can tell something is going on, you know. And this kind of went on for a couple of years. and I remember she had a simple routine. She would probably regularly do it, but it was a specific night. It was Saturday night going to Sunday night

that was like the night that I know I would go down to the basement or rec room and you would see the whole thing loaded with huge bags. I mean, industrial-sized garbage bags, full of clothes, suits, jewelry, watches, clothes, you know what I mean? It got so much that like, you know, the entrepreneur in me, the little hustler in me, I would actually, you know, get some of the watches

and some of the clones, guess what? I just said, I was selling them in school. Got a little popular for that. I even sold into my teachers because, you know, I had it. So one night in particular, I remember my uncle would go, I don't know what he actually did, but he would leave for a little bit and always come back. I remember one night he went and he didn't come back as in like on schedule. So my aunt called and she had a cousin named Tammy and she was asking Tammy, hey, is your uncle

back yet? Oh, no, your father back yet. She says no. So then she was called again. Hey, Uncle James back yet? I was like, no, he's not back yet. So she got a little worried, and she can know something is going on. The routine changed.

And we all know when you get the little spider senses, when you're doing something bad, you can tell, okay, hey, this is something different. Is she think he's running around or he got arrested? Yeah, I believe. At that time, I believe she thinks he was getting arrested. Yeah, she could sense something is not right. Me and my cousin at that time, where she's 15, I'm 14, and we just, she had a little driving permit.

So we go to drive where my aunt worked. and as we get there, we both get out the car and I'm a kid, like, I don't know anything like any of my one of my postures was I had my hands in my pocket when I was, you know, so as soon as we pull up there, like an officer literally pulls out a gun and says, hey, I don't know what your hands on your pocket, your hands on your pocket?

I'm like, what's going on here? Like, you know what I mean? Ultimately, I was able to put two and two together. The gig was up, so on and so forth. So I ended up coming back to the house. And when I got back to the house, my uncle James actually called me from the county jail and said, hey, good or do it.

Get everything out of the house. that Marshall's tagging it. So I'm like, holy shit, everything in his fucking house has a marshal tag on it. Right. I can't do this by myself. So I ended up going to get my neighbor. His name was TJ,

really cool kid. So I go grab him and say, hey, TJ, it's like two in the morning. Look, I need your help. He goes, what do you want to do? I say, I need you to help me move all the stuff out the house. And I said, look, first, you can pick anything and everything you want, but you need to help me get all this stuff out the house.

Right. He's all right, cool, I got you. So he goes over to the house and literally, went like on a shopping spree and he bags up his stuff and takes it to his house two houses down. So it's probably like 2.30 in the morning. So all night we're bagging things up and we ended up carrying it over to where my neighbor lived and he was actually the truck driver that was working with my aunt. So I would just basically take all the bags, load them up. These things are like probably 30, 40 pounds and throw them over the fence. So we're literally doing this all night. Sun comes up.

finally finished. And now me and him are like, what are we going to do? I was like, oh, let's just go to church. Because they had this really big church next there. So we dress up in these suits that we have from marshals and all this stuff. And sure enough, we go to a little church service and we come back. And mind you, I'm not like, I'm really just person. It was just something to do. So we get back. And as we get back shortly after that. Yeah. Is this FBI to grab them? Well, I think it started with local GBI, Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Right. Yeah, it started with them. And I think it, you know, funneled up, FBI picked it up or the feds picked it up.

Yeah. Well, it's a national company. Yeah. There's a good chance of that, yeah. All right. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. Well, especially because of, because they're moving merchandise.

Absolutely. Yeah. That's why a lot of people, like, if they rob like a 7-Eleven, it's like a national, some kind of national, they'll, sometimes the feds will pick up. You're like, he robbed the 7-Eleven. Yeah, he robbed six 7-Elevens and it's a national company. Got you. That actually makes sense.

There's some reason. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just feel like the feds are very thirsty. They want to get everybody in the feds now. but that makes sense. So yeah, they show up with my aunt and she's like, hey, tell them where, you know, show them where everything's at.

She didn't know my uncle called me. Right. So, like, I didn't know that she didn't know. So I was like, okay, if she didn't tell me that, we could have, I mean, it's not like they were going to get away with it anyway because they had enough evidence. Yeah, they obviously did their investigation, so on and so forth. But whatever was found at the house where, you know,

they would have been included in the indictment, so on and so forth. But there was probably like 30, 40 bags. So they ended up getting that. Oh, so she said, show them where the bags are, and you thought she meant where you dumped the bags. That's what I thought, but that's not what she meant. You know, I don't know really what she was actually asking me to do. Right.

You know, or help them or, you know, so I just sold everything where it was at, and they ended up taking that. Ultimately, that morning, they got arrested. My uncle was locked up. My uncle was locked up. So now here I'm 14. We're home by herself. So I ultimately called my dad.

Hey, dad. I can't believe this. Or not going to believe this. He just got locked up. So he, being in Iceland, obviously has to coordinate. And he immediately came as fast he could. And at that point of time, you know, my aunt got locked up. My uncle ended up getting bond.

They both got bonded out. At that point in time, my dad realized, okay, living here with them is not going to work anymore, obviously. So my dad decided to retire to Orlando. How much time's your aunt get? Oh, yeah. So she ended up getting five years. What did your uncle yet?

Uncle got, I think, two years, but he was able to do it with some kind of weekend thing. Okay. You know, because he wasn't, like, the main... He went to the ring later. Correct, yeah. I don't know what the other gentleman got. Being that age, I didn't really get that disclosed to me. I do remember Aunt Lorraine got five years.

Uncle James got two, and he was able to do it on the weekends. So now, yeah, we moved to Orlando, Florida. It was really interesting because, you know, I came from in Atlanta. It was a predominantly black. I was in DeKalb County. Went southwest of Cab High School. predominantly black you'd probably see one or two white guys or white people they actually go what you is italian they didn't really know what i actually was so but i identified black and white you know so i

moved to orlando and in orlando it was predominantly puerto rican you know you have whites obviously it was a good mix you know depending on what side of town on i was from the east side and it was a good mix portaricans blacks whites dominic you know just your it was more of a demographic that based on your i guess income versus color, you know, and that was one of the things that, you know, Atlanta was like very segregated. Orlando, I attended a university's high school, which is right across street from University of Central Florida. And I was a basketball player, you know, eat, drink, and sleep basketball. I think that actually helped me with a lot of things in life, kept me focused and kept me out of trouble, not really saying I was a troublesome person, but it's just,

you know, all you would do is practice. If you weren't practicing, you're playing, and if you weren't playing, you're doing things that, you know, with the basketball players. So we ended up, this was actually going to be an introduction to my very first, I guess you could say, crime, you know, I was 16, 17 years old and the Orlando Magic were probably the best team, one of the best teams in the NBA, they were going to the finals at Shaq, Penny, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Horace Grant, they literally went to the finals that year. And I got a job working for the Orlando Magic Fanatic. It was me and my girlfriend at the time, a high school sweetheart. And we would work inside the arena, and the arena would have four different booths.

And back then, there weren't cameras and a lot of the technology we have now. And what they would do is they would give us a cash box. The cash box had $200 in it. So at the end of the night, you would basically, when you sold an item, because it wasn't a digital cash register, it's just a little box. you tear off a tag if you sold the jersey put it in the box make the change so your money equal the amount of tags one night as we're working and mind you at this point of time

they're overproducing magic apparel because this is like the best thing that hit Orlando you know for a sports genre so one night I actually was cashing my doing my counting at the end and it turned out I was $90 over and I'm like

oh shit I don't want to get fired for that Like I did something wrong, but then I started thinking myself, but damn over. They're not going to fire for over. Yeah, but then I said to myself, well, what if I take the other, I take the $90 and then I'm even. Right. So. It just seems like the right thing to do.

It just makes sense. You know, I didn't know. So I ended up pocketing the $90 and was scared shitless. I was like the next time I went to where I worked probably three, four days a week because I worked magic, solar bears and Orlando Predators at the time of the little indoor football thing, arena football. So I come back to work the next time and just knowing I'm going to get fired. And sure enough, when it was anything? And that was like the worst thing it could have happened to because it's like, oh, shit. I crack, I crack the code, you know?

I was like, okay, I'm going to test the waters. You know, and mind you I'm like 17 years old, you know, and I'm just, I have no bills or nothing. You know, just a kid that goes to school, you know. So I took $270 this time. And sure enough, went back to work. I never said anything. So you sold the jerseys, you just didn't account for the sale. So what I would do is I would sell and I just wouldn't put the tag in the,

because they did no inventory. Yeah, because it's not like they're counting up at the okay, we're supposed to have 150 of these. We only have 147. Correct. You know, and it just got to a point where everything at the end of the night, I just had everything in there. So what I'll do is I'll take out this many dollars worth of tags

and then just take out of the end of it. So I wasn't even doing anything to the end of the night. So I just did as I was regular working. And sure enough, you know, it went up to a point where I was taking $1,000 a night. You know, I was 17 years old and I worked three, four nights a week. And the crazy thing was, is three of us in a booth. And, you know, everyone would go to their own little section at the end when we pulled down a thing and to count their money. But once I walked in on, like, to somebody and he was doing, oh, no, no, no, no.

I was like, no, no, no, it's cool. It's cool. You do it on? He goes, yeah, why? I said, I do it too. We're good. Everybody in there was doing it. It was, we had actually a English teacher that worked,

and that was her second job in the evening. She was doing it. So we were all like, you know, in cahoots. Yeah, you know, taking a little off the top. But we weren't, you know, obviously still, like, I would always still out of three people in the booth, I would always top seller, you know. I always would still be the best.

But, yeah, everybody was doing it, you know, and it turned into something now. You know, I'm coming back to high school. school or going back to school and me and my girlfriend are skipping school on a bus going to fashion square mall and i'm coming back with racks of shoes and then catching the school bus home you know i'm buying shoes uh glad every other kid stuff like it ain't really buy anything serious but just have all kinds of drip as in clothing and shoes and stuff like that ultimately it got to a point where one of the kids who actually got us hired and this is the thing about this you know you get

overconfident and it's just never enough, you know? You become brazen. Yeah, like, and I didn't know anything about anything. So several times people would go there and they would buy with credit card and they will leave the card. So I don't know why I did. I just thought it would be cool. Whatever.

Let me just, I could now use the card if I go shopping instead of the cash. And ultimately, I ended up, it worked. We did it at, I think it was called Burdines at the time. I never remember Burdine. Yeah, it was like a Florida one, right? Yeah, yeah. It was specific items. Oakley's Hill Figure and so on and so forth

So the kid Who actually got us hired He was really close with like the owners And stuff like that So they ultimately said Hey look somebody From one of the booths Because they can't tell which one

Took this I think they might have been able to know From the terminal They might have yet So it came out of three people So ultimately He saw me with those exact items These the Oakley ones

Look like the bug eyes I don't know if you remember Those back in the 90s They were real hip So I had those specific Oakley's on and Hillfigure. So they couldn't prove anything, but it was enough to suspect, suspect that they didn't want to. You didn't tell him you bought him for Jimmy?

I bought him from Jimmy. Well, that's what I said. They ultimately never even asked me, you know what I mean? That's the thing. They just knew. And I'll be honest with you. I think he's doing something with the inventory, too. I did too.

You did look at him. Yeah, Jimmy's the guy. You know what I? Ultimately, we didn't get fired or anything. But they started counting the inventory. No, they, well, I actually don't know. know how if they did that they just didn't take us they're like see you would come back the next season because what it was it this is why they couldn't do the inventory in the arena they had these like

little roof things that little tile roof things that can come off and the people that work maintenance for the arena they would go down there and steal and they knew it it was just so much that they couldn't they're also probably i wonder if they just don't care like like they're making so much money printing jerseys for four bucks a piece and we're selling them for 45 100 bucks absolutely Yeah, that's exactly what it was. So if we lose 25% to theft, we're still making a killing. Yeah, we're still making out. So, but they felt, I guess, the trust level was gone.

But at that point in time, like, I literally had, I remember, I saved up almost $40,000 as a kid. Holy shit. Yeah. And I remember going, I got suspended for school for, I can't remember, something very minor or something I got to do suspended for three days. And mind you, I don't really even get in trouble. But I ended up getting suspended during that time.

told my dad because my dad, you know, knows I've been working. So I say, hey, pops, listen, I want to go buy a car. You know, I've been saving. He goes, oh, I'm very proud of you, son. Okay. I said, dad, I got $3,500. I want to put down. He's so happy that. 3500? Yeah, yeah. He knew enough to say it, not say, $4,000. No, no, no, no. I definitely want to do that. He's like, son, you know what? You bake your car payments. I'll pay your insurance for you. So I was like, okay, great. So we went to the Navy Federal Credit Union and got a loan. I went and bought myself at that time. a little Honda Prelude, two-door.

During that time, suspension, bought a brand new car, went tricked it out, had new rims on it. Back then, the biggest ones they had were 16-inch. Put another system in it. Had, like, one of the coolest systems in it, you know. So I come back from suspension with a brand new car, tricked out, so on and so forth. Now, I went ahead and went back to my bank where my dad got the loan,

which was the Navy Federal. And he didn't know what I was doing, but the car was in my name and his name. So I went and paid off the car. And at that point in time, I had no car payment. He had no clue. He has no clue. He has no clue you know the car was paid off.

So I actually had a pretty good credit at that very young age or good loan status. I don't really know what credit was at that age. That actually was kind of like my first introduction of like, you know, fast money, you know. And it was something that was a gift and a curse because like once you start making that kind of money very easily, It's very hard to go, like, do a regular job, and you see that, oh, I can do this, that. So that was a gift and a curse, I guess you could say. Yes, we get the guys that say, you know, like they do, just like me, the first time I did something, the worst thing that could have happened was I got away with it.

And it reminds me to think of those, the two, there was two Chinese bankers who had stolen some money from a Chinese bank. They worked in, and they bought lottery cards, and they won. And so they won money. Then they were able to put the money back and they had made like $100,000 or something. So they were like, so the worst, that was the worst thing that happened because then they went and borrowed more. Yeah. They took more money.

And the next time they lost. Overconfident. And they executed them. Super optimist, I think they call it. Yeah. They executed them. Because they're not fucking around in China. You know what I'm saying?

Like talk about one that went bad. Yeah. Yeah. So the worst thing that could have happened was the fucking guy won. He could, because he could have stolen the amount of money. and put back some of it. Like, they wouldn't have really noticed the million dollars he had stolen. Yeah.

But when they took, like, 15 million. But they killed him for it. Oh, they killed him for it. It's China. Yeah. They're not playing around. And they stole from, like, the Bank of China or something. Yeah.

Oh, hell knows. It's the same thing. You get overcompet. It's the worst thing is you become bold and emboldened by it. And you start getting brazen and you start doing crazier. Yeah. One up, each one. Yeah.

Now, after high school, or during high school, I got introduced to Orlando's. They had a. scene, rave scene, you know, in the late 90s, early 2000s. Florida had a sound or central Florida had like a breakbeat music sound. And I started to go into raves experimenting with drugs at the time. I was never really into drugs or that scene as a younger kid because I was an athlete, you know, and I just thought drugs would kill you if you did it. And, you know, also growing up in Iceland being sheltered like that,

there's really no drugs around. So everything you hear about it is either from dare commercial, So I go to these raves and experimenting and I got into the scene of dancing and break be-boing as things that were popular at a time. So while everybody was, and I graduated high school and I was going to go on to college and just college wasn't really for me. You know, I wanted to. And I consider myself an intelligent person. I was blessed with close to a photographic memory. I can't say I have a photographic, but damn near. And that's kind of been a gift and a curse in itself. I would go to school and I would just pay attention and then a night before it kind of cram a little

and I did above average in grades. But college didn't really appeal to me. My father being in the military, you know, he thought, hey, go to the military, military, military, and I almost did that. The neighbor recruiter was just a little too thirsty. You know, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it and I would get off the school bus or come home

and he's already there stalking me. And I was like, okay, hold on. This guy is like, something's going on. If you want me to get in there that bad, like, you know, like, that's just so I got kind of turned off from that. And also, military life wasn't really for me, you know. I am a creative thinker, you know. I don't like to be tied down or conform to a certain way. You know, I like to be able to be creative and free.

And the military, it definitely is a good thing. You know, they teach a discipline. There's so many good qualities in it, you know. And I probably could have used that at that young age. But I didn't. So I continued to just do telemarketing jobs. I was always really good at articulating, communicating, and I guess I call it a blessed with a silver tongue. So I was telemarketing during these times while I was partying in the rave scene. And I would have friends that went this way and I went that way. I didn't get into the illegal activity of drug dealing. I would party with everyone. But I seemed to know

and network with all the big dealers. And it wasn't something I'm bragging about because everyone probably knows somebody. But the thing was, they continued to be the hustlers, and I was continuing to go to work, and I would basically be a weekend warrior, you know? And as I progress with sales,

I would learn different techniques and so on and so forth. So I always carried a job and maintained it. Sometimes I would get fired because I parties up, but I would always get another job in sales. And that went on for years, until finally I got told hey you should do

time share I was like what's that and the guy who was telling me was driving this I think there's some

badass infinity and he was like my age and I'm like he goes well you can make this this so I was like

you drive that from there he goes yeah and I say how much money he goes dude I make like

nine ten thousand dollars a month and this is like back in 2003 2004 yeah it's a ton of money and I'm like

holy shit In Florida? Yeah. Like, I need that. That's like, make a half a million dollars a year in California. Absolutely. So I was like, and you're like my age. And you basically, he was like dressed in, and I love to dress.

I like to be clean, neat, you know. I'm very particular about my presentation. So I say, you get to go to work like that and make that kind of money and drive something like that. I was like, I'm in. So I ended up going to get hired. I got hired at Westgate, which was at the time. Probably still is.

It's probably the biggest one. I've heard of Westgate. Yeah, Westgate Resorts. So I got hired at Westgate. I got my real estate license, which was a difficult thing. It's very tricky, you know. Do you have to get your real estate license?

Yeah, if you wanted to get commission, and it's because technically you're selling real estate, even because it's deeded time and space. So in order to get commission, you have to have a real estate license. Now, I didn't start off with it because you can actually work for the developer, which would hold the license,

and they can pay you a daily salary. salary. And even at that time, you'd go in six in the morning and you'll get out 12 o'clock. No, you work at start at 7. I'll get there at 6. You start, the line opens up at 7. And what that basically means is they have these booths on high traffic areas and tourist areas. And they're saying, hey, would you like some free Disney tickets? You know, Disney tickets are like 80, 90, at that time, 100 bucks per ticket. Sure, a family of four. You know, I want to save money. Absolutely. I don't understand. You're not calling. No, no, I'm doing tours.

I'm referring to how they got people in to take these tours so I can take them on a 90-minute presentation to sell them a $30,000, $40,000 property. We said timeshares. I just assumed you were, it was like a call center. No, that's Timeshare resale. Oh, okay. That's the crime or the industry I was in, which ultimately got me indicted. Okay.

This is my introductory to the world of timeshare. So you're just going to people in Orlando and seeing like a family and saying, And hey, by the way, would you like to? No, no, no. I worked at the physical resort. Okay. I'm in a suit and tie. I'm that person that the family goes to at seven in the morning because they want to get a free ticket to the park that somebody said, hey, if you want to go to Disney World, C, World, we'll give you free tickets.

But you got to go see a 90-minute presentation. Okay. At this resort at this time. Got it. So I'm that guy. So you would basically show up to work, suit and tie, you know, spiffy presentation is very, very, you know, a bit of, presentation is very, very. very, very important. People judge you on your looks and your appearance. You don't want to be too flashy or too successful. You want to still, you know, you find a happy medium. So, hey, John

Mary, and you call them, they show up. You got a little ticket. You take them on a presentation. And it's a 90-minute tour. That's what they signed up for. But the truth is, there's no way you can go through that 90 minutes. It's my job to earn another 90 minutes while I'm with them. And ultimately, at the end of that 90 minutes, or I say two or three hours, you're going to get them to buy right now. Right. So it is high pressure sale. because there's no be backs, there's no callbacks, it's right here, right now. So I ultimately, again, I got trained very well by them. I got to definitely compliment their training.

They teach you how to train, sell emotionally. They teach all the different techniques. And sales is an art form that can be learned. Yeah. You know, there is also things that can't be learned, you know, like the communication or just the personality. You know, I'm a genuine guy. Right. Like, I'm in the business.

people, but I genuinely like people. You know what I mean? Is that a sincerity? You know, if you can fake that, you got it made. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. My dad told me that. He goes, and you can fake it.

You've got that. And then all the different clothes is the economic clothes. The, um, oh, just absolutely. What is it? The economic clothes. There's like six different types of closings. There's trial closes. There's, uh, yeah, I mean, absolutely.

The name of all of them, too. But I remember, oh, the takeaway clothes. Take with clothes? Absolutely. That was my biggest one. I loved it. This isn't for you. You know what? This isn't for you. No, no, I want to buy it. I want people want what they can't have. You know, I mean, it's just like you've been in a relationship. This is too much. This is too expensive for you.

Yeah. You need to look at a small or, no, no, I want the three bedroom. You know, you need something better fits your family. You know, sorry. The Mr. Mrs. Jones just bought this one. You know, sorry, you know. Let me check my inventory, see if he can find a better unit for you, you know. That's just like how it isn't, like, I think of everything. You know, when you take away, like, you have a takeaway, like, you have

a girlfriend and you like her and everything she likes you all of a sudden that you know she doesn't like you not oh shit oh i'm i'm i'm i love you know yeah i was going to say i'm big on the moment they're the moment they're like i don't know i'm not sure oh hey you know what we're done we're good thanks good luck and walk away and then they're like yeah yeah yeah absolutely it's it's literally it's it's literally it's humans want what they can't have yeah it doesn't really become super valuable until it's either rare or not available what's horrible is that there will people in the comment section saying salesmen are horrible you guys are horrible people and you know and we are we are i'm okay with it listen it served me well yeah as you said if you're in sales

or you don't want to make money you know but obviously like i said you know yeah you're if you're in the fine you don't want to make money then you're in the wrong fucking totally and they say the sales industry has the most millionaires out of any industry at least back then i don't know now so my mom used always say like when i was like oh I don't know how I'm going to get a job. This is when I was locked up. She's like, you're a salesman. You're always going to be a job.

It's just the same thing I told my dad. Like, yeah, always. You can find, there's a sale going on in absolutely where they're selling you know or you selling them, yes, but there's every product or everything has to have a. It has to have a salesman. And what's so funny about it too is that when you go, it's funny. Like if you're not a salesman and you go in for a salesman and you walk in and you say the right things and you do it.

And you look, the guy knows you're not a salesman. No, a fisherman could spot another fisherman so far. Absolutely. You walk and you're like, hey man, what's going on? Hey, yeah, I'm here for the sales job. Right then, it's almost like they're looking at you and they're talking to you for three minutes and they're almost like, here's your office? Like they already know. The guy who's not a salesman can talk for 30 minutes and be the nicest guy and it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. You're not going to sell. I actually wouldn't even refer to myself as a salesman because to me that's a different level. I'm a closer. Oh, okay. I turn nose into yes. You know what I mean? And if anything, I'll find a need.

And if you don't have a need for it, I'll create one. that you didn't even know. So I definitely feel it's an art form. Yeah, any individual that has been in sales successfully, closers, you know, and there's different kind of closers as well, personality, so on and so forth. And I was one of those individuals, that's a backdoor closer. You know, I would sell you without you knowing you're being sold. Right.

Like, people already automatically come in, like, I know I'm about to get this intense, you know what I mean? And I'll tell them, hey, look, I'm going to show you this property. I'm going to explain how it works, how it benefit you and your family. At the end, all I'm going to do is ask you if this is something you would rather do. Fair enough, you know? Yeah. I'm not going to press you to do anything, you know.

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Thanks, Beth, 365. Must be 19 or older Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to connectsuntario.com. There's no shortcut for saving time. But saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at bellair direct.com. How to sell by emotion, because a lot of times people sell homes, features, location. But if you sell by emotion, like you and your family, it's like if you have a pool and a person, a home that has a pool and you want to go sell the home. And a normal real estate, you will say, hey, you're going to have a pool here. This is one of the features. We touch base on them, but tell them the memories you're going to make with your family, it's your kids growing up, so on the barbecues, that quality time. And like, how can you say no to that, you know?

Yeah, yeah. So this could be your kid's bedroom. Yeah. You can go right out here to where the pictures. You can start a legacy. You can be past down. You can see them the whole time. They can be here in the pool.

You can see them from the balcony, which is great. No, your kids are going to be home. They're envisioning. Yeah, that emotion. You know, that emotion invokes that makes you, you're going to start a legacy that your children's children are going to pass on, you know. And that's horrible. Yeah.

Horrible. But if you learn that technique, you can turn those nose into yeses. I'm just trying to help people. Yeah. I'm just trying to help people. Hey, I'm in a people of business. I want to help you build memories with your family. It's all about quality time.

Right. Yeah. Help me help you. You know. And that was one of the, uh, you guys are scumbags. Well, this is the thing. Look, I was brainwashed. This is the crazy thing.

I was actually brainwashed. Westgate does a very good job. First of all, the training is three weeks long. And you got to memorize a 90-minute script in three weeks. Now, mind you don't get it all in one time, but they'll give you like five, six pages that you got to memorize. The next day, you've got to write it down word for work. So one, your memory can be good,

but they also teach you and brainwash you into believing time share. That's why I was really good at it. I literally believed I was helping people. And at the same time, you got your, you ended up getting your real estate license, too. Correct. So I also mentally know, one of the things about timeshare, they do percentages, what percentage close you are. So in order to keep your job, you had to be a minimum, I think, 12 to 15. And if you're making 12 to 15% closer, you're making a good $70,000, $75,000 a year. Uh, 20% closure, you're making $100,000. $200,000 a year. Now, not trying to boost a brag, but that was a 36% Closer.

Right. And I was rolling in the dough. And I'm a young little hot shot. I go to work suit and tie. And you come in there with your nice watch and I. You say, hi, how are you doing?

All the, they had a lot of good-looking individuals. The females were good-looking. The males were... Technically, they took care of themselves. Everyone, it was a good-looking environment. And the environment was very positive.

Everyone's making money. And that's what it was. And everybody in that environment, it was like fast life, fast cars, fast women type, you know, lifestyle. You would go to work six in the morning,

get a start at seven, technically, get out 12, go home, take a nap. Sometimes if you sold, you never even go home. You just go hit the Applebee's, TGI Fridays, and then you start drinking there,

celebrating if you didn't sell, you're actually celebrating the other guy's sale. Or if you didn't sell, you're actually drinking because you didn't sell. So it was always a reason to go drink.

So you end up drinking. And then next year you know, you go from two in the afternoon, four or five. Now you're a happy hour at the other, spot. Then next, you know, you got blue martini. And then you're actually at the strip cup, throwing out a bunch of money until about three, four in the morning. And then you get a little

power nap and you're back doing it again, you know. And it was just a very fast life. And it was fun, you know. How long does this go on? I did timeshare for about three years. Ultimately, I did Westgate for two years than I did a year at Orange Lake, which Orange Lake was, took my sales skills because of the training they had there. It just took it to another level. Right. So I started selling and I was in Deeding every day. Like I remember I had like nine days in a row, which is Deeding which would be too close. Okay. So just to give you an example, when you sell a timeshare property, like they take one unit and they sell it 52 times.

And that unit ranges from 40,000. And again, they have different things, but it's going to give a little synapses. $40,000 down to $9,000 or even $5,000, which they can actually do a little. little tricky things to make it affordable. The main thing is this, back then, they would literally give you $100 to take a tour. That person could take that $100, he uses as their down payment.

And next thing you know, you're walking out with a timeshare property stuck with a $400 or $500 bill. You know, I get my commission because it's financed to whoever financed it. But so I was literally selling people timeshare that they couldn't even afford, you know, so you're out there

making, selling properties, $40,000 to $30,000, $20,000, $20,000. And I was making sometimes $20,000 a month, you know, just in commissions. Then you get bonuses because if you hit this tier, you're going to get this. So I was making a really good living with that. And what ultimately happened was I didn't renew my 45-hour real estate license. And every two years you have to do that.

And it turns out. What the fuck? Yeah. You're making that kind of money. You got to maintain. Yeah. Well, they make you reapply kind of like to show. No, no, no.

They make you take it updated. like regulations, laws, and whatnot. So when you don't do that... Continuing education? Somewhat like that, yeah. They want to make sure you still updated with the laws and regulations that were. Every two years, they make you do that.

If they still... I don't know if it's still like that back when I was in the early 2000th, that's what they were required. I ended up not doing it. So I ultimately lost my license. So I was still selling my ass off in the resorts. I was actually number two in the resort.

And number one, she was getting a $30,000 bonus that month, and I'm not getting anything. I'm on a daily salary, which means I made $200 a day. Mind you, $200 a day for six hours a day, maybe 30 hours a week, so it's $1,000, not bad. Right. But the truth is. But it's not making $20,000 a month.

But what happens is when you're making $20,000 a month, your lifestyle increases. Right. Your bills increases. So I was making $20,000. Now I'm dropped to $1,000 a week, but my lifestyle was still exactly the same. So I was literally barely making it. You know, I was struggling, and I'm like top rep in the resort. So the girl was dating at that time.

This is my introductory to timeshare resale, which is a whole other industry in its own. I've always heard about it when I was selling timeshare, and I would always kind of like, it was like the black sheep of the timeshare, you know? So ultimately, my girlfriend at the time, she worked for Westgate. She no longer worked for him. She was working for some gentleman, Universal Timeshare, and that was a Timeshare resale company. So we're dating and mind you, I get up in the morning, go to work. She doesn't even get up to like 10.30 in the morning.

And she goes to work at 11 or 12 and gets off at 7. So she doesn't work weekends. One of the things in timeshare, they make you work weekends. And at that time in my life, I like my weekends. You know, it's the best time to go out and party. So she ultimately, I saw her one time with a check, $1,300. And I'm thinking of myself like, you barely work. How do you get a check for it?

And you're not even cash in it because your other check was still sufficient. You know what I mean? And you barely, you know, I know I can close 10 times more than you. So I was like, what do you do? Oh, I just, time share, we sell. We're on the phones.

And she explained that we saw advertising and marketing. So I was like, shit, I need a second job. You know? So she said, okay, I'll tell my boss. So I called the gentleman. And I'm like, hey, I work at Orange Lake. I need another job because they started basically, some days were 11 to 1.

Some days they started 1 o'clock to 7 o'clock at the evening. So I was like, that's perfect. I get off 12 o'clock. I can be right over there and go straight to work? It's like a good job. He's like, hey, can you come in tomorrow? I say, yeah, sure. So I come in, mind you, it's a very relaxed in office environment.

I come in with a suit and tie, like, you know, some kind of CEO type stuff. So I come in with a suit and tie and I ask the gentleman, hey, I get a job. He goes, yeah, you know, I'll hire you. if you can walk, talk, and breathe, they'll hire you. You know, I didn't realize that. You know, I mean, so I got hired first day. I was like, okay, so are we going to have a training?

They're like, oh, no, just read the script. It wasn't even script. It's like an introduction. Right. So what else I do? They say, call these numbers and read the script. I was like, what? Well, you know, I understood how times you're sold and the whole dynamics of all that.

So. There wasn't a three-week training course? Nothing. Like, literally, hey, secret. swim. So, and it's all commissioned, so you either make it or you don't. So what I would do, I get on the phone, dialed, and I read the little script, and I got, I added all my own stuff, and I got that far. I'm like, okay, that didn't work. Turn it to it. Read the script, call again, do, do, do it. I got a little further. That worked,

so I write that down. So now I'm, like, making my script as I'm going, do it. Call again, and got a little further. So ultimately, I just created a own script by trial and there with the skills that I've already developed over the years. Now, that very day, first day, I ended up making $700. And I'm like, holy shit. And I crack the code. Like, this right here, if I focus on this, like, I could literally, at that day and time of my life, I could make a boatload of money. And like, and be completely no pressure.

Now, mind you, I was selling advertisement. Okay. Now, what that basically means is we cannot promise them, hey, you're going to sell your time. You want to sell your time sure. Hey, I'm going to sell your time for it. sold, da-da-da-da-da. That's illegal, obviously. But hey, look, we can advertise and market it, give it all the exposure for it to potentially sell, you know, versus you do on absolutely nothing stuck with your monthly payments, though, with the maintenance fees, so on and so forth,

you know? So these people, regardless, whatever it is they do, whether they use their timeshare or not, they're stuck with those fees. Right. That was one of the things that started to change the way I looked at it. Like, these families were promised they're going to have this. life-changing experience, vacationing, but they're actually stuck with a lifetime of maintenance fees and taxes. So I understood that. So going into the Timeshare Resale, I just used all that, you know, as my advantage. Say, look, whether you do this or not, you're going to be stuck with that. At least if you pay this at that time, it was $1350, $1,350.350. You know, we'll market it for the next 90 days. And you guys then take the information on the Timeshare and you put it on a website.

to try and sell. Yeah, this is the tricky thing, right? Let's know how. And nobody's going to that website. Nobody's buying your shirt. It's like a needle in a haystack. Yeah. Now, if we don't sell it in the 90 days,

don't worry, we're going to market it until it's sold on our expense. Yeah. It's nothing. It's on a website. Dude, it's just type it in, put it there, and that's it. What's you just horrible about this is that you're now on the phone saying, man, the guy that talked you into this, what was he thinking? I can't believe he stuck you with this.

But that was you? or that's you that morning. That was me two hours ago. That's a dirt bag. I know exactly how they were sold. You deserve better than this. What did he tell you that you were going to? Did he tell you to tell you that you could see your kids swimming in the pool and you were going to build memories?

Oh, what a dirt bag. They always get you with that one. Yeah. I know. So I knew both ends of the spectrum. Oh, my God. So I played to my advantage. Ultimately, I was making enough money at the timeshare resale that I didn't even want to go to the resort.

wake up six in the morning. Or actually we had to wake up five and be there at six. So I let Orange Lake fire me. Right. So I can get unemployment. Right. That's a little bonus check. I know,

I know. Listen, I'm sorry. But it is what it is. I can see you feel bad about it. I like nice things. So at that point, I'm collecting unemployment from Orange Lake.

And I'm working under the table with this company called TimeShare. No, share. And I ultimately basically had three people in the office outside of myself. And I was closing, running circles around everybody. And everybody was like, wow. So what they would do is they'll bring me their deal that they just can't close and say, hey, Gunner, can you close this for me? I was like, well, I'll close it for you, but I'll split the commission. Right. So now I'm doing my own deals. Now I got like everyone and they do literally all the work. They don't realize because they just can't close. Some people want to ask for the money, you know, or

Don't understand a certain, you know, so. I would get those guys, those salesmen who would do, they get the customer in, they've signed everything, they've explained everything. They're basically in the middle of signing at the documents and they keep talking. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. The guy already said, all you got to do is ask for the money. Shut up.

Yeah. You could only lose it now. And I've been in the middle sitting there listening to. He'll talk their way out the deal. Talk. And in the middle of the thing while the guy's signing, he's like, yeah, don't even worry about the prepayment penalty. Like, we'll refinance it. in three in like three years and all of a sudden the customer's like what how much is the

repayment penalty and what did you do what did you do you already signed it you have to but yeah there's some people that they just talk themselves out of deals absolutely yeah and you know it's either from just not knowing or just nervousness or scared to ask for the money and they always say like when you ask for the sale or you give that little clothes shut up yeah exactly yeah the first person actually speaks will lose right you know and once you get on that point just And I would get, like I said, with those individuals, I had multiple people that would do all the legwork. And now I got like every day, I got hot leads, so to speak, fronted leads, as they called it in the industry. And I was closing them left and right, you know.

And I took that little office. I think they were making like maybe $8,000 in a week or whatever, until we were pumping out $30,000,000 in a week. And it was just about four or five of us, you know. and at the time I was only getting a commission I think it was 25% which sounds good if I sell a thousand

and make $250 dollars which a thousand is pretty easy you know what I mean I make $250 you do two or three years a day that's $1,000 a $1,000 a $20 grand a month so it adds up now at that point in time the owner

I had to ask him because it was like now I turned your office into this and at the same time I'm watching everything learning how to do this learning how to do that. Slowly but surely gathering. Because, you know, ultimately, like I said,

look, why am I making you rich when I can make myself rich? Like, I can do this, you know? So I said, out of fairness, because I'd like to be, I'm an extremely loyal guy. Like, I don't believe, even though I operate as in sales a certain way, I still have integrity. You still have to, you know, especially with people you're interacting with on a day-to-day basis or people who've helped you out.

Hey, goes both ways. So I said to him, hey, you. Some things are better when they're kept simple, like simply lemonade, made with real lemons and cane sugar, giving you a fresh, all-natural taste that shines through in every sip. It's the kind of drink that turns an everyday moment into something a little more special, bright, refreshing, and crafted for people who appreciate the real thing. Visit the chill juice aisle in your local grocery store today and say yes to Simple. I need to get a raise.

You know, I want to present you with, you know, give me, and I actually asked him, hey, give me 45%, you know. That was that jump. I thought it was a great number, you know, yeah. I need that four or five. No, so he molded over. But at the same token, he's making 55%. He doesn't even do nothing.

I mean, like, all you do, because the leads I actually provided, because through, leads are, people understand what leads actually are. Leads are something that could make or break a sales company, you know, you're only as good as the lead, you're calling or you're a person in front of you. Because if you're pitching somebody like that it's a bad, I don't care how good a closer, you can't like sell something that the person has no need, it's impossible.

Right. So you're always as good as in that industry, you're always as good as the lead that you're calling. And due to my previous relationships I had with the resorts, I develop, you know, relationships with people who worked in different departments. And I would actually, they would have owners database or access to the owner's database, which means I got fresh leads and it doesn't cost these people

anything because I'll go to them. It's like, hey, look, I want 10,000 names, telephone numbers, what they pay and all that stuff, and I'm going to give you 10 cents a name. You just made $1,000. Are you telling me that you sold these fuckers in 2003

you're selling 40,000, of these things a month and then a year later you're having these people pull all those and you're calling the same people saying listen where you've been paying this thing for a year how many times you've been there once come on what are you doing let's get this off you got to get this off you I can market this for you and get it sold the next night it is look if I don't sell it this 90 days don't worry I want to market it for the lifetime at my expense and this is the other crazy things I'm now buying the leads for 10 cents. Then I'm selling it to my boss for a dollar a name.

So I just made 90 cents off every name. So there was a point in time. Is any of these people ever say, God, you sound familiar? Yeah. Well, ultimately, listen, when you're a good salesperson, I could change, hello, I can do multiple personalities. I'm an actor. I'm an artist.

That's what he used to tell me about it, you know. So, yeah, unfortunately, or fortunately, I didn't come across that. Hold on. What's his name, though? he sounds like a really good guy. What were the, my buddy, Andrew Levinson,

when people would say, I understand what do you sell? He'd go, peace of mind. And what are you selling? Memories. Memories. Yeah.

Well, I used to even get to a point when I say, look, well, I'm a lifesaver. They're like, what do you mean by that?

Well, you know, statistically showing stress is the number one cause of death. Am I right? They're like, yeah,

well, what does vacation do? Relief stress. I'm saving your life. You know? Oh my God. Hey, Dr. Bill can sleep like a baby at night. Absolutely.

Me too. I hear you. I hear you. On a 26th floor with 20 foot ceiling windows. So, yeah, I did sleep well. But ultimately, you know, everything comes with a price. So I ended up doing that. Yusuf told me no.

Declined to me. He didn't give you an encounter offer? Like, I'll give you 30%. Oh, yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he did counteroffer it. Okay. It was something like 30.

And I was just, I look, I bring. That's better than 25. But I bring too much to the table because the truth was, I could do this without him. That's the real truth. Right. I didn't want to go out and do it because, like, I would have to do it. But I could do it without him. Right.

So I gave him an opportunity. Hey, let's still make money together. Were you already planning on going out? Well, that was the whole thing. Like, if you don't, I'm going to go do this myself. I actually did say that to him. Right. And believe it or not, I gave him two weeks.

So I finished off on two weeks. Okay. And he gave me his blessing. He actually helped me get my little operation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like I said, I never went apart, whether relationships with a female or business, I always want to part of good terms. Like, I mean, let's be, you know, let's leave on good terms.

You know what I mean? Sometimes this doesn't work. It is what it is. But, you know, if you're able to do that, absolutely. So when we left, I went and I took a little time off, you know, to regroup. And at the time, I still selling elite. I had a little reputation of being able to provide. buy leads. I was making like 10 to 12 grand a month, just selling leads, not doing anything,

buying these leads here, bringing them there. So I had a little reputation for having good leads. Anything and everything I want to do. I want to be like a brand. I want to be the best, want to have the best, you know what I mean? Like where I'm conceded. Yeah. But like I want to represent the best. To have the best, be the best, whatever, you know what I mean? Like any real reputable company or brand or anybody, you know, that's how you want to be recognized. So they all knew that I had good lead. So I was making a good living off of doing that. I could have just done that because I would have been out of the limelight.

Still making, but the way my brain works is how can I make more money, a lot faster, a lot easier, less work. So I ultimately opened up an office. And what I had to do at that time, I had to secure a merchant. Now, I didn't have the ability to get a merchant. What does that mean? A merchant account. Yeah, so a merchant, like, people may not know this, but credit cards. such as Visa, Massacre, Discover, they're all processed through merchants.

They're called merchant account, small business account, small business merchant account, high risk. There's different levels, okay? The industry that I was going into the timeshare, telemarketing, or just telemarketing period, those are considered high risk merchants. Yeah, yeah, they get a lot of, what do they call chargebacks. And a typical merchant, you get like 1% or 2% chargebacks, they're going to shut you down, lock your money up. Right. Now this high risk merchant will let you all.

operate sometimes up to 12 to 17, sometimes a little higher. So it just so happened, the individual 12 to 17 percent charge back. Okay. Okay. So let people know what happens is you're processing people's credit card. Somebody's buying, they're paying whatever, $1,000 for the service or would you say $1,300? 1350. Yeah. They're paying $1,350. But what happens is maybe a week later, they suddenly go, you know what? I don't want to. I don't want this, or they talk to some friend, or they talk to their wife, and their wife says, no, that's a scam. All they're going to do is stick it on a website. We can do that ourselves.

Oh, okay. And then what they do is they call their visa and they say, listen, I didn't do this. Or they said, I got scammed. I got scammed. I don't want. They shouldn't have processed my credit card. And so a chargeback is when Visa then goes to the merchant. The merchant takes it back.

Give me a 13. Our client said he didn't do this or doesn't want to pay this, and they pull the $1,350 back. But the problem is that that's a real problem. So sometimes they hold the money from 60 to 90 days, and they also charge a fee. Correct. And you're saying there's a certain percentage that they'll allow it to happen before they shut your account down. Correct. The merchant that I actually got associated with was a guy who's been in the industry for many years.

Okay. He ultimately had, let's say a childhood friend. I don't know the real relationship, but they were very close. These companies will make and break you. Absolutely. Like, look, at that point in time, like having a merchant, especially the one I had, is like having the golden ticket with Willy Wonka. Right. Like, you're that guy.

So I ended up meeting this gentleman. He gave me access to processing through his merchant. Now, he had a childhood friend. I don't know again, like the relationship they had, but this particular guy. was on the board of one of those merchant, like there's like two or three, at that time, I don't know where it is now.

New tech, first data, I'm not sure the exact name, but one of these real large merchant processors, he goes on the damn board. And he basically gets kickbacks, millions, okay,

in order to keep your account going, which means like you could run a freaking 75%, we were running a 50% ultimately, which I'll explain, a 50%. percent chargeback ratio. You know, and your personal never got shut down.

Now, mind you, you will take X amount of funds every transaction or every drop and it goes into like a fund that would basically, if you end up leaving, that money is going to be applied for any chargebacks after you left. Right. So they had a little safety net, so on and so forth. Do they hold them and they hold those funds for so long? Yes, they have, depending on the situation, typically 90 days up to six months. So it could be a year.

Yeah. depending. I've known some guys that like as your chargeback percentage goes down, they'll reduce the 90. They'll reduce the 90. It'll drop to 60 and then it'll be 30 and correct. So they'd hold it less and less because you've been in business three years. Shown and prove your your three percent chargebacks like you're good like you're that's way below average or something. Correct. I don't know what the average is but but based on that so I end up getting this uh access to that particular merchant So once I secured that, I was like, hey, I'm in the game now. Now, what they did for me is out of 100%, I got paid 67% of whatever I processed through that.

So that would be 27, whatever 67 minus 100, was that 20, 23 or 20, they kept 33. Okay. 33. Yeah, they keep 33%. I kept 67. So that would go to them. Now, the gentleman who gave me access to that account. He kept out of that 33, probably, let's say 12, and the rest went to the merchant.

That particular merchant will allow me to process deals. I keep 67%. So I said to myself, wow, I've been doing this on the phones, getting paid 25%. Let's just say, I just want to stay in my home and just do this myself. Right. I can make 67% of every deal I make. So out of $1,000, I make a $650 versus $250. So I was like, damn, even if I do this by myself, don't have to have an office.

I'll make a killing. Right. I had the leads. I provided the leads, so on and so forth. So I was like, there's no way this is not going to work. None of that.

I started to use creative visualization and envisioning the process of how, I was like, man, every scenario I see, I'm winning. This is, there's no way it can't win. So I started very humble.

You know, I went and opened up an office that was like an old motel room. It's now a business center, so it wasn't like a hotel. But it's a business center. And I went and got a little desk from office max. You know, I was very humble.

You know, I had four on this side, four of this side. No, four on this side, three on the other side. That I had a computer workstation with a fax and scanner and things like that, whatever. So now I had to make this thing work. So at the time, I hired my girlfriend and I had one other gentleman. I had one other guy who was kind of with me through a process. And then I called one of my buddies. he was one of my managers when I had to work in telemarketing and I'm like hey look I just got this

my own company I can pay you this much I know you're gonna make it and I'm doing it oh I've actually been having some experience in time for resale I've got I'm in between jobs I'll come work I was like perfect so here we are I got my leads I got my merchant let's go to work so we went and opened up mind you my girlfriend was customer service as well as a sales rep okay so the very first week very first week we did $8,000 out of the $8,000. 67% obviously I keep that's what we processed 67% is mine then I obviously had to pay my reps I was very generous I've started everyone out 25 to 30 if you hit a certain number so the rest is mine but majority During the 8,000, I wrote myself.

Are they subject to the callbacks? Yes. If their customers chargebacks? I'm sorry. Two weeks later, they get a charge back. You're taking a bad. Yeah, if you're working for my office, let's say a month later, you get a charge back.

Yeah, I got to take that. I mean. Because some of these guys will say anything if they're, if they're not suspect. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. If they're not held accountable or had the page of charge back. I'm saying suspect.

If they're not subject. If they weren't subject to the chargeback, they would say anything. Absolutely. Yeah, I think anybody would. So we actually developed a little system that actually helped prevent chargebacks. So what it was, we won live tape verification, third party. Then you come through me and it was another company, okay, time dated, stamped, as well as signed contracts. I think that was a majority of the main things.

and what we did is when they tried to dispute that with a credit card company, we're like, hey, hello, they're on recording, and you ask specific questions to ensure that they cannot say, I didn't know. No, yeah, I didn't, yeah. So you make it real clear, not a record, and they got a signed contract. Like, how are you going to, you dispute the chargeback?

And majority of the time we're winning. Yeah. Now, what ultimately happened, I was making good money doing that. You know, honest. look selling advertising marketing now you might just stretch things a little but you stayed legal you know what I mean right I think every salesman guys goes that great area a little you know they have a saying in timeshare no heat no eat right you got to put food on a table you know so I ultimately the way my brain works sometimes I think like why the hell do I think this way

but you know it can be a gift and a curse because like I said I'm a I think outside the box you know So one day I'm sitting at home on a Sunday afternoon, and it just popped in my head. Like, and I started getting it on the laptop, and I started writing. I wrote this thing called The Heat. Because like I said, no heat, no heat. And ultimately what happened was, and I didn't think I was doing at the time, but I literally was like, I created a script of pure heat that's like straight fraud. Now, also, I didn't know that was happening.

Like, you know, I just saw and found a way, oh, you could make a lot more money, a lot more easier. but yeah so what we were basically doing I took a process that would take sometimes days to doing a three call close right three calls I'm closing you

I'm getting your credit card today same kind of concept timeshare at the resort does this is not a beatback no I want your money today you know so what I did first call introduction

and you kind of warm up and basically what we're there is hey John Mary and again I already know got the information right in front of me you know you don't always like, hey, John Mayer, I see that you guys are trying to sell your timeshare. I know you have a Westgate, two bad and two baths.

I see you have it listed for 13,000. I'd be like, yeah, I always say, well, look, I might have a buyer for it. If so, would you be interested in selling it? Yeah, I'll say, look, hold one second. There is no buyer, by the way. There's no buyer. I've not seen one in my whole entire life. Honestly, but I always have a buyer, which is crazy.

So I'm going to contact them real quick. quick. You just say might. I might have a bite. I might. You never know. Because like I said, somebody could call in. You never know. Well, it could happen. Yeah, I mean, anything can happen. So I say, I'll call you back if there's so interesting. So I play for a couple of seconds. I do a first intro to another lead. By the time I don't know that, I call this the first one back. Hey, listen, just got on the phone with Steve. Believe it or not, he's willing to pay 13.7. Would you accept? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'll say, look, let's not get a head. of ourselves. Okay, so first things first, I got to see if I can get you approved financing.

I'll get Steve approved financing. Now, again, I don't know how long this may take because there's a lot of people could take up to an hour or so on and so forth. But what we'll do, we'll get them approved for financing. I'm going to have them sign a financing documentation. I'm going to lock them into the deal from the purchase of your unit. So this is locked in. Now, typically, like I said, I don't normally do this. I usually do it backwards. But I'm going to do this. You know, I mean, now this process could take about 45 minutes depending on long it takes to go through financing. Okay.

So, but when I call back with them locked into the financing, we're going to need you to proceed with the payment. Like I said, I'm not going to go through all this. So you basically lock them in. So third call is getting that credit card. So obviously, I work on a second deal and a third deal, and then I go all the way back to the front. Now I'm on a third call for the very first person I called.

Hey, John. Congratulations. You've just sold your problem. property. Steve got approved for financing. You know what I mean? So you go through the process and we're locked in. Now,

keep in mind, this is where you got to kind of where the thing kind of keeps them, because of the merchants actually want to hold you out for 90 days. Remember the charge back situation? So I say to John, hey, John, look. Now closing is going to take about 90 days.

Right. You know what I mean? But during those 90 days, there are going to be documentation. I'm going to send you, a new sign back, so on and so forth. So you prepare them.

Like, hey, look, so look, you're not going to get your check for like 90 days. So they're not going to expect it in one week, two week. You know what I mean? You're preparing them because in addition to create the heat script. I also had to create a customer service script that went along with that. So you can keep the money. That's the whole objective, not to just make it and have to pay it back. Right.

So I had to come up with a customer service script that coincided with the heat script. And with the two, it's literally, as I explained to you, it transformed the whole thing. So I tell him, hey, John, look, you're not going to be able to, Props to talk to close for another 90 days. But during that nine days, I'm going to give you updates and let you know exactly how everything's going. That's why you can have other documentation, which you're going to need to sign. We need those notarized.

I mean, you make them feel important like doing these little things. Like, I don't know if it's notarized. I'm not showing it to anybody, actually. But he feels important by getting it notorized. So it makes it. He's got more invested in it. Yeah. More he does.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So now I got to get the credit card. So which credit card? I just, which credit card you want to put that on? I'm not going to ask him. Do you want to know which credit card?

Yeah, you're still in the sale. Absolutely. And he gives you the credit card that is right, all the information. Now this is the key. Does Steve not get financed? No, this is the key. So remember that third party verification thing? So I still got to get them through that.

Yeah. So look, John, I'm just going to be up front with you. Normally what we would do is we will, advertise this property. You'd have to pay me $13.50 up front. I'm going to put it on my website. I'm going to go to a presentation, trying to sell it. But honestly, that just takes too much time.

So what I do, I work on them backwards. I find the buyer first. Get them approved for the financing. Get them locked in. And then I ask you for your money. For the pay for listing. But my company, rather than you do it differently. Take your money up front, list it, and find a buyer.

Yeah. But what does that do? This makes you weigh, this. So look, I do it backwards. So I'm going to have to, have you go through a tape verification. What I need you to do is that they're going to ask you specific questions, one, or you promised a buyer, I'm going to need you to tell them no. You straight up tell them. And the reason why is because if I don't, then this sale is not going to go in place.

Because if otherwise, we have to do it the other way. Yeah. But like I said, you want to get paid, right? You want to sell it. This is how we do it. So they follow your, you could tell them whatever. Yeah. I was, I was thinking, I was thinking you could say, you could always say, listen, I already have the buyer. Typically, we list your stuff first. The problem is we didn't do that. I skipped it. My manager is irritated.

He's like, okay, well, this guy's supposed to pay us $13.50. You're just handing him off onto a buyer. You got to have, we have to put it on the website. That's our process. Correct. So call the guy up, have him go through the process, list it. Go ahead with the sale. And then once he did all that, then so many days later, when he's expecting the sale,

I'd be like, fucking not you can believe this. This guy, this guy did not get financed. No, he changed jobs. I'm trying to work with the loan officer. I just, I just can't, I don't know who changed his jobs just before sale. But anyway, that's what he did. They called his job. He didn't work there anymore. He got a new job. They're going to have to call that. Give me another, give me a couple more weeks. Just drag it out before you just calls. Hey, look, you hold the careful and don't know. Right. And then it's too late for him to even go and try and dispute. Dispute. Dispute. It's way past that time. You still got them on tape verification. Agreed. So all of which

is wrong. And I feel bad about. I feel bad. I do. Even thinking along these lines, it makes me feel horrible. Horrible. I want to cry. I know.

So we did this. This comment section is going to be horrible, bro. They're just going to tear us apart. The people were old, too. You'll be good. No, no, no, no. I didn't hear it. Look, you shouldn't have brought him.

He's not helping you in a long. He's getting away too much gas. He's trouble because a lot of the people were older. You were good at it. He just made a whole new script right. Remember the guy we had that I mean, if we're still doing it, why don't do it? And they did the game show?

Oh, yeah. Oh, we had a guy who literally, after he got out of prison, right? He went to prison. He did something kind of similar, right? Yeah, after he got out of prison, he got contacted by Inside Edition. Inside Edition. But they weren't saying they were Inside Edition. Yeah, they said he was a game show and they like fly him in, bring him on a game show.

And it's a whole thing. And he realizes once he's on the game show that he's there because he ripped him. off a bunch of people. Oh, no shit. And they have several of his victims, like, in the crap. They're like, old little ladies. And they're like, Oh, my gosh.

That's crazy. He stood up, bolted. Wow. They're chasing. I would love to see that. Well, that's why, look, I had, I mean, I had multiple. Chris Jackson. I mean, I could say this now because the feds posted it on their fraud site.

I have Chris Jackson and Steve Williams. I had so many different names. It's so funny. I had a buddy who did. Do you know what? do you know what business opportunity scams are or business opportunity

it's kind of the same you're selling a business and it's typically it's like a vending machine business where you buy three vending machines or let's say you buy five vending machines for $50,000 and you have to place them

but it's up to you to place them somewhere and so you place them and he they convince you they're going to make so much money and they never make that kind of money but what's so funny is this guy when I first met him he would tell me you know, he went to trial. He's not guilty. He's this, he that. And then as, you know, as you spend time with someone through your, your term of imprisonment. Yeah. He, you know, the little thing starts to

come out. It starts to trickle out. Right. And I remember at one point, he was like, you know, the guy said, you know, Mr. Kennedy, I don't understand. I was like, what, the guy's last name Levinson. And I went, Kennedy, he's like, what, yeah, I would use a, I used the name Andrew Kennedy. So, and I'm like, oh, that doesn't sound legit. Your whole, I was a legit. I was a legit, businessman I've been framed. Oh, for sure. Listen, listen,

everybody was innocent. Yeah. During my state, I mean, at least 98% of them. I'm not going to say everybody, like, there are some innocent ones.

I'm not going to say, not. But everybody, I didn't know. I was innocent. Absolutely. Well, those of the owners

who were like, you know, I didn't know what these people were saying on the phone. Oh, for sure. I didn't. Yeah.

I did. But then they all got on the, and then can you believe it? Four of these guys got on the stand and said that I'm the one that told them. And then they're like, yeah, I know, but the scripts that you wrote said, I didn't write that script.

Listen, that's actually a real life situation with my co-defendant. His cousin actually legitimately did that to him. I hear you. I have no idea what they were doing. You know, absolutely not. Like, but yes, that's a real deal situation. So now we went from with the heat script from doing, at that point in time, my office had one office. Like I said, it was a humble little office, four or five people in there.

I started to, overnight, we're like making boatloads. We were from doing like 8 to 10 grand a week to doing 35, 40 a week. And now it's like, I'm calling my friends. And I'm like, hey, look, what are you doing for work right now? Quit your job. Come over here. And I'm going to literally make you life changing money. Not the kind of money that's, oh, I'll buy some new shoes, new this.

No, I'm going to change your life. I want to have you the keys to the kingdom. So now I got individuals with well-paying jobs. They're quitting. Well, first they come over to test it. Yeah, yeah. You know, and they see it. And they only have to talk to one or two people working there to be like, okay, yeah.

Overnight. You see at that time, again, we're in an inexpensive office location, you know. We had to move. I ultimately had to move one to expand. and I ended up getting a location. My first office was in a brand new building. And I had the whole upstairs part of it, third floor wood grain, marble.

I mean, it was decked out to the teeth. We were the very first tenants in it. My office, obviously, the corner office where it's actually one way in one way out. So I could see everybody coming in and going out. And we were the only individuals at that time in the building. And as you can see, everyone's got Mercedes. Dodge Vipers. I mean, it is tricked out.

It's like a car show just in the parking lot. So again, coming in there for new potential individuals that want to, hey, I want to hire you. You know, you want to come work with. You're going to see, like, everybody here, and I want you to have the nice cars. I want you to have the Rolex, the brightlings. I want you to wear those.

Because, like, in sales, especially on phone sales, if you look good, you're going to feel good. If you feel good, you're going to sound good. If you sound good, you're going to make me money. Now, not just me, because it's not about me. I am only successful if you're successful. You ain't making money, I ain't making money. So I'm going to provide you with all the tools, all the resources, everything that I'm

capable of doing to improve your chances of being successful. And I understood the dynamics, the psychology, the whole energy of sales and that stuff. So I would also employ good-looking females. now not like strippers or anything like that i mean just good quality good looking people because as the males all is alphas every salesman it's all about ego you know so i did that strategically because i want them to show off you know get that deal and the more you get that deal and you know the more she like you know so it's just a whole cycle of energy you know plus it makes those guys want to come to work too absolutely everyone wants to come to work they're all good looking they're

flirting, there's lots of... Yes. You know, and there's money to make everybody's happy. Now, it is unfortunate in this industry doing that kind of pitch. It takes a certain individual. I would say about 60% of the individuals that worked in my office, partied. And I say that in the aspect of weekend warriors, you know, and I'll be honest, man, I didn't care what the hell you did.

I really didn't. Right. As long as you come here and go to work and make that money, like, whatever you're doing, your free time, that was your time. But between this hour and this hour, you know, you're not mine, but you're here to do a job. Right. So ultimately, we literally transformed and went from 30 to 40 to do 100 plus thousand dollars weeks. And I'm not even like lying or exaggerating.

It got to a point where I like, I was making literally $120, $130,000 every freaking week. I started to get so much money that like, and trust me, my saying it's like, I try to spend it. all yeah you can buy big big ticket shit you know i mean stuff like that but like you know everyday things like it's really hard to difficult to spend every week you're getting that every week and this went on for how many people are working for you at this time okay so yeah ultimately at time it grew from i had five we went to 25 and then i also expanded it i had like three offices now there were levels to the office now everybody wanted to work at the main office that's where I provided the best leaves.

That's where the best closures, the best environment. Then you had another office, which is kind of mediocre. Then I had my farming office. And these are like the people that want to be there, but they just don't have the ability, but they're... So I put them there, let them train and so on and so forth.

They're making my... I don't give my best leads because leads became very valuable, you know? And you don't want someone burning a lead. You know, are they burning a league? It could have been a deal. So I had three offices at a time. Ultimately, I literally, at one point in time, I had about 140 employees, 130 employees, 40 people per office. I had secretaries.

I have had assistance. I had a CPA working directly. I even had an attorney at the office. And he basically, because this is what happened. You got a sales rep, you know, they get paid Friday. They go fuck off on Friday night next day, no. Something I was stomb up next day. They're in a jail Sunday.

I need you back to work Monday. Right. So I would hire an attorney. Obviously, I'd place the attorney. He would have to hire him. I would pay him. And I'd just take it out of his check. Right.

You know, and like, I need you on those fucking phones. You know what I mean? So, you know, good to me sitting in jail for you or me. So, you know, I would ensure that that would happen to make sure that they're back in the office. They love me for it, you know, because, like, I was looking out for their best interests as well as mine, obviously. Is there ever a point where, like, the authorities come in? You start, because you're regulated by who? Yes. So this is where it actually gets.

When you start to get that big. And I have a question real quick. At this point, are you aware that it's fraudulent? Or are you like, ah, this is kind of sketchy, you know. Like, what are you thinking? Absolutely. At this point in time, we have grown so fast and we're making so much money. I would be lying if I said, oh, I didn't really know.

I knew exactly what was going on. But the thing is, you're so many arm lengths away from it. You know, again. You feel like you have doneability? Not just a dime, but it's like I don't really deal with the people complaining. So it's just like, I'm just so many different ways. So this is really hurt because I do have a soul. And I do feel I'm not like a malicious like scumbag.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, like. It doesn't sound like it at all. No, no, no. Great guy. It's just my daughter. It's a great girl. You know, I'm a great guy.

Yeah, sounds like a salesman. I'm trying to convince he's a great guy. No, but like you're kind of. You're kind of like, I'm just so many, I guess, levels away from the direct contact with the client. It just starts to not really feel as bad. If you're directly, I say customer service, hearing these people complain, oh, I didn't beat it. You know what I mean? So it's just one of those things that you do, you just, you're so far away if you don't really hear the direct complaints.

Yeah. You know, you know, and the fucking money was good. Right. You know what I mean? So I was able to bend some of my moral values in regards to the lifestyle is living. And not only that, like, I, in. proved and employed people who are making now 100, 200 grand a year. I'm going to give you an example.

Like, I would do my training class, okay? And I didn't train people. I would come in to make my presence known, you know, like. And I would literally go in there. And at one point in time, we were, like, I purchased Lamborghini, $100,000 on Mercedes. I lived in the view, 26th floor on that one. I had two better. I mean, like, I was buying things handover.

But. So I would have come in there You know Slide the keys on the table While everyone's in there And everyone looks at it's Lamborghini key Mercedes, A different car, different time

You know, different train class Boiler Room. Boiler Room. The Boilerm. I literally learned that from Bedafel. I literally. I literally. I literally.

You ever see that movie? He slides his fucking Giovanni Risbys in it. Yeah, he slides Ferrari or so. That's a fuck of that's my How do you know I know what I'm fucking doing? Boom, those are my Ferrari keys. Absolutely.

Listen, I learned it just from that and I did that same exact thing literally. And I said if you're not here to fucking buy, you're in the wrong fucking place because we're here to make money and that's it. Every chair is required to produce this amount. Right. You know, I don't care if you did it. First day,

I don't even fuck. In the week, I need to add up like that. That's just what it is. You know? That's the bottom line. That's where I'm in this to make money. You're in this to make money. It's not act like we're fucking selling Girl Scout cookies. Right. So it got to a level. We're making so much noise. I mean,

making money. Now, mind you, the telemarketing industry, I believe the state of Florida in total was regulated by the Department of Agriculture. I always think that's funny. Which is the weirdest shit, right? Yeah, yeah. Department agriculture regulates telemarketing.

Like, what the fuck? But yes. So it got to a point where they really got wind of the shit. Like, you know, you're now doing so much business and a lot of it's bad business. So these people are starting to complain. So they're now getting all these complaints. At first they're kind of like, whatever.

But now they're getting so much. They can't fucking ignore the shit. They got to like, okay, hold on. What's going on actually going on? They're in Tallahassee, behind you. Yeah. What the hell's going on in Orlando or all these people are, you know what I mean? So my very first visit, I'm not even sure if I can tell the inspector's name,

but let's just call her Sasha. Okay. For some reason, everyone in the industry, new Sasha. Okay. Everybody, and it's a small service. with us in the timeshare resale industry. So everyone knew Sasha. So we got when, hey, Sasha's in town.

The AGs are in town. So I literally would tell everybody, hey, listen. We're close for today. Go home. Fuck it. We're not at the office. It will show up to the office. And there's nobody there.

That happened a couple of times. Like cat and mouse shit, they, like, no, they're getting these complaints, but there's no office. Nobody here. It's empty. So ultimately, one time I got approached by them.

They caught us at the office, somehow they slipped through the cracks. They did their job a little better. So I ended up getting fined for the very first offense. And believe it or not, it's called operating. And now, because they couldn't technically

see that I was doing fraud because they're in their eyes. If you have everything done, such as all their reps are employed, your business license are hung, everything's up to code and regulations. they can't go any further than that unless they have probable cause to go further they can't so if you're up to code that's it aren't the complaints probable cause well that probable cause to get them

to the office okay so that's why they're there now to go any further like technically if you're doing something usually illegal in their eyes okay so they have to get there and find out you don't have your license or find out you aren't signing these you aren't disclosing correctly so now we're going to take it if we can now go in and do this so but you always stop them at that point. But ultimately it happened. She came the first time. I had everyone licensed, but like two people. I didn't really realize how severe it was because any shit. Some of these people come, some would go. So I didn't think another way. But I didn't have it. So I ultimately got fined. It was like $30,000. Drop in a bucket. Bye. Goodbye, Sasha.

Leave me alone. So now I understood the importance of licensing your reps, having things displayed business license here, script here, I seen and understood the importance of it. So everything, every time somebody came in, I gave them a license immediately. You know, I don't care if you're a fucking janitor. You need a license, you know what I mean? Because anything further than that,

you now can be subjected to a more investigate, you know, just whatever the case was. Now, at this point in time, you know, I'm making so much money. And I'm talking about, please understand. I'm a very humble guy. I'm not boosting. I'm bragging. I'm really, I'm not. It just really was like that. I know.

I'm literally flying private jets. Mind you, it's actually cheaper than I actually realize. You know, I would, my operation was running, you know, and I got to tell you had a great staff. Like, I got to give my staff credit. I had great management, great assistant, customer service was phenomenal, you know. So I didn't have to be there every day. And mind you, the more money I make, you know, the more freedom I had to do whatever a guilty pleasure I had.

So, you know, I would bounce out and I would go for a couple of days, vacationing here, partying here. So it would get to a point ultimately that, you know, you're in the office, office gossip. So I remember at one point in time, I remember my name was talked about in the office. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like, I took everybody out the phone. Like, listen, I took everybody. I got the fire without a day and every day. I said, listen, I don't pay you to worry about what the

fuck Gunner's doing. I pay you to, from this time to this time, to make money. I say, the only thing you need to worry about is who write the fucking check. Your checks cash every week, am I right? So don't worry about what Gunner's doing. I said, you have an opportunity to make more money than doctors, lawyers, attorneys, or, I mean, whatever, are making. They got to go to school for eight to ten years. And literally, they don't have as much stress. They have way more stress than you. You come in from this time and leave at seven o'clock at night. You're making 200 grand a year. You know what I mean? Like, fucking don't worry about what I'm doing with my money. You know what I mean? Just go to work to your job. You know, and it would get to that point. And I would have to like

whip everyone back in check. Like, hey, get focused. At what point does an actual criminal investigation it started? Got you. And when do you figure that out? At this point in time, I worked for this individual and way this thing works is it's literally like a Ponzi scheme. You know, you got to keep writing to deal with the chargebacks because ultimately these merchants

got a little hip as well as these credit card companies. So these chargebacks started to hit. It got to a point where we started to have more chargebacks than business rent. And I was paying payroll out of my pocket. Now, I generally care about

everybody that works for me. I really do. And that's why I had loyal employees because that industry got to a point it was so shady it was literally like the wild wild west so I was paying so much out of my pocket and I did this for three weeks then I got to a point

it's like shit this is not sustainable I'm not going to keep like I mean I made this money I'm not going to give my money back so I left I was like hey look I made enough money I could live for three years and not do anything travel I got enough in my bank everything. But do you realize

has an investigation started or this is just a chargeback? Well, this is ready to bolt. This, it was just the chargebacks. But now this industry has gained traction.

Right. I share with people, people, it's like the gold rush of central Florida. Fucking, these guys are making millions of dollars now.

Right. Fuck, I want to get into that. You know, so, and they realize how literally easy it is to do. It's cookie cutter.

My script or my pitch. And again, I'm not sitting here telling you, oh, I'm the owner of it, but I legitimately created this. Different versions started to spread. The same concept. Promising a buyer. There were multiple. I want to say multiple people making millions of dollars. And I'm talking millions of dollars. It was kind of fucked up because like I just, one weekend after Friday, I went in there, I paid a company that cleaned all the office house, took everything, I put it all in storage. My employees came to work on Monday. And it wasn't shit in there.

Doors are locked, everything. I wasn't answering my phone. Fucking, like, I didn't even want to deal with it. Like, an ostrich stuck his head in the sand. Like, fucking just. And I lived in a high-rise that had security. Like, I lived in a building that JJ Reddick lived in. He was my neighbor.

Fucking, like, basketball, NBA players lived in my building. I mean, you had to have. You're not walking in there. Yeah. Yeah. You cannot get through there without going through security. So I just. camped out in my my condo for the first week and mind you this is around christmas time so again my

cost of living i was still living like i'm making those hundred thousand dollar weeks spending money doing i mean i'm and then by january middle of january i'm like holy shit you know what i mean like this is not three years you know i thought i had enough money to live that's definitely not three years worth of living like this. I get a random phone call from this individual, Rich Mendez, and he says, Hey, Gunner, you want to open up an office again?

I heard you this and that stuff. I got a merchant. And I'm thinking like, fuck, you know, it's crazy? Like, yeah, I was just thinking, like, I need to get back, you know, making some money. I said, yeah, I can definitely do that. He says to me, all right, all right. Can you do $100,000 weeks? I said, give me 60 days.

I did $100,000 weeks. He was, all right, bet. Let me know that did I meet up with me. So I met up with them. Within a week's time, I had an office outfitted with 35, 40 people, everything running and gunning. We're moving and grooving. Now, I understand that this industry needs licenses for your employees. Now, I'm going to say this truth.

This cock sucker. I kept telling, hey, I need a. a licensing, no, no, I got you, I got, just spinning me, spinning. And look, game recognizes game. And people already, look, there is always going to be people envious, jealous, whatever the case is. And it's like, look, I'm not doing anything you can't do, you know. Don't hate me. Do it yourself, you know. I get up in the morning, I work, and I don't stop until, you know, I achieve what it is I plan to do. So at this point of time, in Orlando, it was literally well known. I was known and the reputation of what it is I was doing was out and about, you know.

I had at a point in time an orange Lamborghini and it was Gallardo. And I remember one morning I had an employee that worked for me and for some reason decided to steal my checks. My little checkbook. So actually, this is what happened. It was a Friday. Everyone gets paid. I purchased the car the day before. And mind you, when I went to go buy the car,

I pulled up to the, it was in Orlando, 5-4, the Ferrari dealership that sold the Lamborgating. And it wasn't like a tricked-out V-10 type one. It was a basic one. You know, 120, $130,000. Oh, 106,000. 106. So I go into the dealership,

and I remember approaching to salesmen, and this is one of the things I always say, Don't never judge a book by his cover. No prejudging in sales because you never know who's going to buy. Right. So I walk into the dealership and I go ask to the guy and the guy like snub me. That's $100,000 on a car. I'm like, what?

Like literally treating me like I was like, okay. So my girl, I called in the phone. Hey, pull out of it. It's because I needed my so-and-so of our cash. So she pulls up in the front. I go to the car and he sees the car. I drove there and it was a CLS 63. And it was, I had like 10, 12 miles on.

12,000 miles when I bought it. So it's a brand new. He understood he's a car dealer. What is that? A Mercedes-Benz seal is 63. At that time, it was a $100,000 Mercedes-Benz. And it had the souped-up V-10 engine, whatever, twin turbo. But he sees the car that I go and get that.

Oh, you're driving that car? Yeah, now he was to help me. Yeah. And I literally found the guy doing it. And I bought the car cashed out, boom, boom, drove off. At this time, I happened to have a... ankle monitor, which is a whole other story. This was a little dispute with my girlfriend,

and I got in trouble with it. They ended up dropping it. But I remember purchasing the car on Friday. Friday night, I had to be in the house at 7. I let her take it out. I called my friend, hey, look, I just, my girlfriend's going to come there. I just bought a Lamborghini. Go, yeah, we'll park it in the front.

It looks really good. You own the club, whatever. So the next morning, I'm allowed to leave the house at 7 to 7 in the evening. So I go jump in my Lamborghini. first day driving on the highway from and I get a phone call I'm on I four no I'm on the turnpike gunning it because I wanted to stretch it and I get a phone call from the bank bank of america says hey yeah you got an employee here trying to cash a check and the name doesn't really recognize so you had your signature a file now I was thinking like shit I remember rushing because I wanted to go by the car

so I said yeah yeah so I said how much is it for she goes it was 7500 okay it's an average check I guess. Okay, she goes, what was the name? And she said, I'm not going to say the person's name. Yeah. It was the person's name.

I'm like, hold on. What? That's a secretary. They don't make, I say, I'll be right there. So I fly over there. And mind you,

that person fled the scene. I get out the car as a police officer. And he says to me, like, Dean, look at that car you draw. I need to come work for you. I'm like, shit, no, you don't. Hell, no, you don't.

But yeah. I'm in sales, I said, okay. So I go inside and I see, he's trying to cash three of them. Like, not just one, but three. Mind you, this individual, this is how, like, good of a guy I was. She couldn't do the job. So, hey, look, you know, I need to find a different position. She says, no.

And I said, well, it's my company. You either go to this position or you just wait, you know what I'm saying? She goes, no, no, no, try to tell me. I said, well, look, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pay you for the rest of the month, you know, your salary. I'm giving you the rest of the month. Matter of fact, and then I knew her kid had. a birthday so I gave money for the birthday.

I took care of these, you are. They was like, oh, my extended family, so on and so forth. So I called her up, like, yo, why would you do that? Like, if you needed money, you know I would have gave it to you. And she starts selling me out. Oh, you're just stealing from people and you just want to do this to buy your girl a new purse. I was like, what the fuck?

Like, what does this got to do with anything? Like, you know what we were doing? Yeah. So ultimately, she's selling me out. I'm like, yo, dude, stop it. So I was like, you know, and this was the worst. this is actually the catalyst that started my downfall, I guess you could say, or the investigation. So I tell her, okay, and I hang up.

So they say, hey, do you want to prosecute? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, if she would have been a remorse, I would have, but she's selling me up. But that one thing, revenge on me for doing that. Now, I paid her bond before she went in. I just wanted to sit her ass down for eight hours. You know what I mean?

I understand. Look, I'm the fucking boss. You know what I mean? but I let my ego get to me, you know what I mean? I should have just, whatever. You know what I mean? Just let it go away.

Your life is too good. All right, it was going to do good. So, I Prosecutor, just press charges. Not prosecuted, press charges, that's the difference. Press charges paid the bondsman before she got there. Went in there, she was released.

But she fucking declared war on me, dude. Literally contact the AG, I'm talking, she had the inside scoop on everything. So now they had a real file on me. So I was now working for this gentleman, Rich Mendes, unbeknownst that I had this file or this investigation going. So I kept saying, hey, now we're a month into working. and I'm producing less than 60.

I'm doing 100,000. We don't want 20s. I mean, we're killing it. I said, hey, look, I need to get my employees. He's licensed. Like, what the fuck? And he just keeps spinning me, spinning me. Now, what I would like, I would always do is I just, I'm always moving.

So the office that I was in, I would just do laps around it. It's just kind of get exercise. Just walking on my phone, handling business, doing whatever it is I'm doing. So I kept telling this dude I need to get license I need to get license Sure enough one day I'm walking around And fucking the squad

Runs in there Like mind you these guys got guns They're acting like we're damn terrorists or some shit Like fucking telephones You know what I mean They had guns and all this shit I'm like they're looking for me But I'm walking around the building

Just doing laps and I see all this shit going on And I'm like Oh shit And I go straight to my Now I had a very recognized car, Mercedes, and I'm pretty sure they did their homework and, you know, we're watching before they came in. So I go immediately to my car. Matter of fact, they met me there. I'm like, hey, look, I'm just getting my fucking attorney's card. So I was actually about to dip out. But they caught me

at the car. They bring me upstairs and they go through all this and that stuff. And sure enough, like I said, my employees weren't licensed. So this was my second offense. And would you you believe operating a telemarketing room without a license is a felony? Yeah. What the fuck?

I was, it's like, what do you mean? Okay, look, misdemeanor? Yeah, great. I can get a felony?

So I was like, I got arrested. I mean, that's what I was getting arrested. So mind you, I wasn't handcuffs or anything, but they kept me in my office. So I ordered everybody,

pizza and whatever food I offered for everybody, and all the officers and whatnot. And Mr. Mendez said, attorney over there and the motherfucker who acted like threw me under the bus like like i did something wrong and i fucking are you telling me that this guy hired unlicensed telemarketers we told him to get like yeah literally fucking threw and i was i they almost said what are you doing yeah they had to restrain me i wanted to choke the shit out this motherfucker but i was like they didn't

realize like what's what just happened like they literally set me up for a big of fall guy so i know i I was going to jail, so I called my bondsman, had it already set up. So as soon as I hit there, I popped a couple of annex bars so that way I could sleep when I get there. I go to jail post-bond, and then I realized now this individual not only threw me in the bus, I had like another 80 grand coming to do payroll, didn't pay me that. And basically kind of like just like cut me off as in like I was the cancer. And, you know, and again, it's a shady game, shady game.

I knew what I was doing. I knew the kind of individual I was working with. But yeah, that's what ended up happening. So now I am legitimately like the face of Timeshirt Resale in fucking Orlando. They got a full investigation going on to me. I ended up getting those charges dropped. I went in front of the judge with an attorney. And I'm like, hello, Your Honor.

I went and got everyone licensed, just paid and got him licensed. So we brought it to the, they dropped it. You know what I mean? She said it's just a clerical error, so on and so forth. So the charges got dropped. Okay. But the fucking floodgate of full-on investigation, you know, I got dubbed the Timeshare Resale King, which is a really bad name. But they're full-blown.

Now they're on me. But that wasn't going to stop me. You know, now I had to be incognito. I started getting offices like you would never suspect there's an office at. Right. All of a sudden these fly-ass cars are hanging out of front of. this place that looks like it's a run down, you know what I mean?

But it's tricked out on the inside for everybody. And ultimately, they're literally scouring Orlando for me. They end up somehow randomly popping up at one of my other offices. Now, mind you, I'm a little smarter now, so I don't put nothing in my name. I don't even work in the office.

I'm an advisor. You know, it's under these people's names, so on and so forth. But they understand it's my show. So it was literally like this cash me if you can type shit with this one lead investigator and this dude had a hard on for me bro and i did not get it like did i steal from your family or some shit like why you got so why are you still you're still you're continuing to open up yeah i was kind of like that yeah yeah right yeah i did

kind of snub them but you know that was just kind of like you know you have a job i got a job you know yeah yeah that's why i felt like you you you chase me and i run like that's you know it's simple yeah yeah Exactly. I commit for all. My job is to beat you, your job is to beat me. It's just that simple. You know what I mean? Play your role.

I'll play mine. So now they actually caught up to me one time and like I said, everybody was licensed. Turned out one person wasn't licensed, but it wasn't that they didn't apply for it. It was that they got denied and it wasn't informed to us. Right. So it was just a small fine. I obviously took care of it, so on and so forth. But now this dude is like, I would show up to a start.

Starbucks and he's sitting there with his fucking cowboy hat on and like, don't worry, God, I'm going to get you. Sorry, we're good luck, you know? And it just came a cat and mouse type shit. Ultimately, it got to a point. This thing just took a whole life of his own. They're like, on me, like white on rice. So I couldn't even be around an office.

I would sub-lease offices and put it, you know, and just collect, I would make sure I collect the money. I'm like a 7-Eleven collecting tens of thousands. of dollars for business done, it just got to, it just got insane. Like, I don't even think anybody else had that kind of heat because of what it basically started with that one situation of having her go to jail. So, at this point in time, I think it's, I don't know if it was FBI. They did a simultaneous raid on not only my office, Rich Mendez, and another individual

I'm going to leave his name out. So now it's just, and they have their operation. He has his operation. It's like a big, big thing. And these dudes are like the one office that they raided. I mean, they're like coming in there like literally SWAT team, like SWAT team. They had took a tank type shit into the damn door, pulled it off. It's this insane.

You see, I saw the first one on the news. You ever read a headline and think, wait, that's not what I read earlier, or hear a story that was covered two totally different ways and think, I wonder which one's telling the truth. We all know the news can be biased. Algorithms push stories that they think you want to see. And some outlets spin stories to fit a certain agenda. It's exhausting trying to figure out what's real, what's exaggerated, and what's just straight up misinformation. That's why I use ground news. It's a news platform that doesn't just show you the headlines. It shows you the whole story. It gathers articles from across the political

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of news outlets, and the blind spot feed where you can see stories that are disproportionately covered by one side of the political spectrum. In a world of clickbait and echo chambers, having access to all perspectives is more important than ever. That's why I love ground news. It helps me cut through the noise and stay truly informed. And right now you can get 40% off the vantage plan for unlimited access. Just hit the link in my description. ground. News backslash inside and start seeing the news differently today. And it's a helicopter and they're zooming down on it, you know, and I get the phone call and I go, you know, this was not my particular office yet.

Yeah. But there, I walk, and I live downtown at there, so I walked over to see it. This is another name, I'm going to call him Mark. So Mark's office was like one of the first ones that get hit. So I go my hat down and I walk over there and they're, you know, walking out with boxes full of stuff, right? Boom, boom, boom. And you got FBI in the jackets. And you got SWAT team with their ARs, full tactical gear.

And I'm like, bro, these guys are not playing. Like, what the hell is going on? And then you watch the news because you want to kind of see what happened. And it says, oh, they seize $2 million from this Bank of America and this, you know, all these damn accounts with millions of dollars. So now I'm like, oh, shit. Now my only money, I'd say it's not safe. So I got to get this money out because, like, they're coming from me.

I already know for a fact. Right. Now, mind, you can't do all these large withdrawals without drawing a lot of attention as well. So I'm pulling 9,000 out. You know, I'm just pulling money out, you know, here and there. Just under 10 grand every time, you know. I think I had like a shoebox full of 500 grand area. And, you know, at this point in time, that's like my run money.

Like, because once they catch me, they're going to lock up the accounts and, you know, seize shit. And I don't got no other way to pay our attorney because that's one of the ways they ensure that they make sure that they win. Yeah, yeah. They cripple you. You know, it's not a fair fight. You know, in any way, shape, of warm.

They got a damn 96% conviction rate. And they don't play fair. It is what it is. 98, 97, something like that. Yeah. They don't play fair. I mean, anybody understand the federal government? Like, I used to be, okay, mom, I'm a patriot.

I love America. I grew up on military bases. But I always was naive. Like, they're the good guys. Not say they're not. But they will be bad guys to catch bad guys. Which is like, hey, look, no, you got to play about the rules.

We don't. You know, we don't mean? But life's not fair. So ultimately, the feds came and they, I remember I actually was sitting on my couch with my girlfriend. I just smoked a bowl. And I hear this noise. And, you know, like, being in a high rise,

you sometimes, I don't know if the wind makes it, you hear these just different odd noises sometimes. I say, did you hear that? It's good. Maybe nothing. I heard it again. And as I started walking to the door, like maybe it's not a door. And as soon as I got to the door, FBI, make a big old commotion,

and they surrounded the whole building. So it turned into them explaining, hey, your search warrant for this, that, your apartment, you know, mind you, they didn't search my car. They didn't have a search for my car. And that's where I had my cash, thank God. So, and if anyone had to have been to a search, federal search warrant, they dog the shit I droughts. They don't care about nothing.

Like, yeah, they'll trash it. Trash it. I don't know if it's intentional or if they're like, but they trash it to a point. You don't feel traumatized like at the end when you're outdone. So we're in handcuffs the whole time. I'm literally thinking I'm going to jail because I've never been through this process. We're handcuffed.

And they take anything with a hard drive, any documents, all kinds of weird shit. Money, they took money, cash. They took just all kinds of random stuff. In addition to they hit my office, I had like a hundred-some computers, just took everything. And then at the end of it,

they said, okay, unhandcuffed me and leave. I'm like, well, what the fuck? What just happened here? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I couldn't even stay there. I had to go check into a hotel for a week. Because, like, I just didn't know what the fuck just happened.

Mind you, we go back, clean everything up. And nothing fucking happens. Like, I've nothing for months. I'm trying to get my shit back from OPD. That's what they said it was at. Mind you, it's too hot for Gunner to do anything in Orlando. So I had a friend going to the Dominican Republic. Oh, no, he just worked for me.

My friend worked for me. I could say his name. He's a little cowboy, but his name was Angel. Angel worked for me. And for whatever reason, Angel went to the, he's Dominican. So he went back to DR. And he was out there in the Dominican Republic doing timesure. But just like on the phone by himself, not even using a merchant, just running it through

Western Union and MoneyGram, keeping 100%. Right. So I was like, oh, shit. Okay, that's, you know, that sounds like something that could work. You know what I mean? And mind you, back then, Western Union, you didn't require, they changed all the rules, not just because I'm sure other people were utilizing them for scamming,

but this is way before Western Union had all these regulations and things you had to do to get your money. You literally just had to say, you could say, I think it was $2,500. And you say, hey, what's the password? Green. So you go to Western Union,

you just have to know their name. John Smith sent me and you don't have to show an ID. There's a password. You say, password's green. They give it to you. Now it's all changed, but that's, we abused the fuck

that shit. Right. But that's how easy it was. Western Union and MoneyGram, both were like that. And, you know, my friend was overdone. So I flew her for two weeks. Upon arriving in the Dominican Republic, personally, I love the place.

Like, it's like an adult playground, you know. Like, if you have a little money, you can literally get away with anything. So not only the women are hot-blooded, beautiful, the cops and people are not at all in your life. and if you had a little money, you can pay it and stay out your life. But everything costs so inexpensive.

Right. So you could be there with $100,000. You're living like you had $10 million in the United States. So I see the potential. I actually went ahead and outfitted an office for 20 people. And the 20 people that I hired, I should have did it a little backwards, but I just assumed they were good.

They couldn't even freaking take a phone call. So I was thinking to myself, I was like, damn, this sucks. I did all this money. These people didn't even came to do it. But I'm not going to waste my trips. So I ended up just pumping out deals myself on the phone. And, you know, I'll pump out six, seven deals in a day,

which comes out with like sometimes $12,000, $13,000, because I was doing $2,500 deals. And I had so much money over there and so much power and so much influence. But I was only staying for two weeks. So I realized the potential of this place, so I hadn't come back to the United States. And I said to myself, I need to do everything in my power to get back there as soon as possible. So I end up saving up, putting things away, organizing my structuring my life to now be not in Florida, but in the Dominican Republic.

Right. So I ended up renting a villa, mind you, with a five bedroom villa, nice, had a jacuzzi, two huge balconies. you got maids that come and clean twice a week. I mean, fully furnished. I was paying like $300. I mean, it was huge. Gated security. So I set up that as my home base, you know.

And when I went there, I went ahead and designed one room just as my little workstation. And I would bring like three or four different people there. Mind you, the feds know exactly where I'm at because you got a passport. I flew in over there. They know exactly where I'm at. So here I'm at now in the Dominican Republic, and I am working, doing, perpetuating my scheme over there. I thought out of the long arms of the law, little as I know, they will come get you anywhere if they want to come get you. I don't care.

All these people think of these non-extraditable countries and stuff like that. They've come to get shoes. Listen. That just means that country picks you up and gives it to you. That doesn't mean they'll show up themselves and come get you. Listen, the marshal, which I'm going to explain to a little, I said that to him. I said, I should have been like one of those, you say, do you believe that? I said, cordial.

He goes, we will literally put a hood over your head, knock you out, and take you to the next country, it will get you. There's no place that you will literally be able to take you. If we want you, we'll come get you. I knew a guy who owned one of those companies, one of those country, one of those military, private military contractors. Contractors. Yeah. will go into another country,

watch someone, grab them, throwing a van, drive him to the airport, stick them in a plane, fly them in the United States, as they're landing, call the DEA and say, you're looking for Akbar or so-and-so?

Well, he's going to be at the airport. They'll send two agents over, they'll pull him out of the plane, pull the bag over his head, hand him to the guy, they'll go, thank you, and they come a check. Absolutely.

There is no place. He said straight up, we'll get you anywhere in the world. There's no, you know what I mean? we will get you. Like I said, I'm in the Dominican Republic and I mean like my lifestyle, I was living large in the United States, but like over there, I was living large and in charge. You know, I would walk around with an entourage and I wasn't even making a fraction of the money I was making in the

United States. But the money went so far. I would have an entree. I would have a driver. I would have a person that would buy me cigarettes. And like they like literally supported their families off of that income. Right. And, you know, we think poor, like in the United States, oh, this guy doesn't have this or these. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm talking about dirt floors. Yeah. No electricity, like, no running water. That's the kind of poverty that's like in those countries. They don't have government food stamps or WIC or things like that. They're like, if you don't. If you don't have it, you don't that. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for you. I think you got a little better. So when you are able to not only improve the lifestyle or just like the well-living

people become very loyal to you, you know? Right. And I was in kind of a smaller town, and I got pretty well known over there because I kind of was taking care of people. I employed people, and, you know, people's lives were better for it. So they kind of like protect their investment type thing, you know.

I ultimately met a female, which ultimately I remember the first time I saw her. I was like, oh shit, I'm going to marry that woman. And sure enough, obviously, ultimately, I didn't right out the way, we ended up getting married. So this whole story kind of turns and twist into something, you know, she ultimately was like an individual in her town and there was like multiple childhood friends, you know. Her childhood friends basically turned into grew up and they became like the kind of the Pablo Escobars of the little Dominican Republic. There were two brothers, Harmonis Lopez.

And it's all documented as well. they ultimately did. As I was living over there, still doing my crime and fraud. You know, I remember meeting him because he had got wind of, it's kind of like this. When two people are successful, you kind of have a commonality, you know, whether it's discipline, work, or whether it's success, whatever the case is. So when I end up meeting him for the very first time, you know, me and him immediately clicked, you know, I just like, I saw this guy's like, man, this guy's nice and cool.

this guy in the world, you know? And you don't even realize it, but the guy was actually a stone cold killer, like, legit killer. Like, and mind you, I had, at this time, like, I didn't even hear the whole stories, but just to give a little background, the guy and his brother, his brother was the enforcer. He was the head individual of his group or crew, and I didn't know how high up power they had, but ultimately, they even, they got arrested, they broke out of jail. You know, they killed a captain. It was like, they've got like, like 12 bodies. And again, I'm not a violent guy.

I've never, ever been involved in anything like that. But the person that I met was just like, I mean, nicest guy in the world. Right. So, you know, I actually meet him. Ultimately, meet him at one of my villa. He and I hit it off and we're all talking and stuff like that. And, you know, he ends up asking, hey, do you do powder? And, you know, I partied here and there when I drank and he went over for it.

But he ends up saying, come on, I want to show you something. So I ended up, like, going. He actually took me down the street in the same villa, same neighborhood. I didn't even know that. And, you know, walk inside of it and stuff like that. And first time I've ever seen anything like this. And it's like in the corner of the house, there's nothing in there but plastic chairs and stuff like that. But in the corner of the house, the whole corner is locked up.

It's like four feet high, three of kilos of cocaine. And I'm like, what the? You know, I've never seen any. anything like that. So on and so forth. I ended up befriending them and we would actually form a really good friendship, you know. But the thing was this, where the town that I was living at, they weren't really allowed to go there because of, I guess, their location, they still had to, like, do business in the shadows. But what they did is they controlled certain neighborhoods. They're called Pontoes or points, drug spots or stuff like that.

And they had like 26 them across the country. And they would basically come in, get their money, and leave. This is ultimately what had happened. So my relationship with them, they ended up being killed by the police. But their younger brother actually, when they were on the run, I provided a shelter for them. So the younger brother literally was treating me like family. So I had rented a vehicle and I loaned it to them while they're on the run. In order to rent a vehicle, you've got to give you a passport.

So I gave the passport for rent to, let them rent the vehicle. Now they're out doing whatever they're doing. I didn't know what they're doing, but ultimately they kidnapped, murdered, and trafficked drugs in my vehicle and ultimately got shot in a shootout of the police and the vehicle was seized and damaged. So now the individual I rented the vehicle from wouldn't release my car. passport and I was going to pay him whatever he needed but he was trying to extort me so I told the younger surviving brother what had happened they went over there and instead I gave my passport they beat the guy so bad that he was like in a not a what do you call a life support coma not like death

but like something induced coma yeah like I mean that's not what I want but I just wanted my passport but that ended up happening so now I'm totally screwed so I have to go to the embassy get my passport. Now, ultimately, the reason why I needed my passport, I was trying to do the paperwork to bring my wife back to the United States. So I go to the embassy. Now, the embassy is approximately three hours from where I lived. So it's a date trip to go do that. So I go to the embassy on a Monday. Do all the paperwork, do everything I need to do to get my passport. at the end of the day, they tell us,

hey, look, because the Dominican Republic power, internet, it's very sketchy. You know what I mean? Some days you get it, something you don't. So they did not have

internet service, so they couldn't issue my passport. They needed an internet service to do verify, you got any warrants, so on and so forth. Now, I didn't even know that. Yeah.

So I was like, okay, whatever, I'll come back, you know, tomorrow. They said, we'll email you when to do it. So I go back home. Wednesday, I'm starting to get

emails saying, hey, your passport's ready, come pick it up. And it's just the craziest thing. Like, you know, intuition. For some reason, I just felt like the U.S. Marshals were waiting for me. No, I didn't know that part. I just felt like when I leave here, I'm not going to be seeing these people. I didn't think that. That's the weirdest thing. I just had this feeling like, when I say goodbye, I'm not coming back. I swear to God, it was the weirdest thing. But I didn't think prison. I thought something else for some reason And they were making fun of me Like oh you look so sad

You're leaving your wife No it's just something deeper than that You know what I mean So I didn't go Wednesday They're calling me And I didn't go I didn't go Thursday So Friday comes

She's like look You're plain leave Saturday You gotta go get her You gotta go get her You know, it's like you're right So I have my friend Willie drive me over there So I end up getting in there

Now mind you They're going inside the embassy It's a compound dude You got to go through This security checkboard To go to this security You know it's like deep Yeah.

And you got Marines with A of M16s. It's a compound. So I'm all the way up to the top, second floor. Only way to go up is elevator down, stairs down. So I give my little ticket. Hey, my name's Gunnar Jek. It's here to pick up my passport. She says, oh, yeah, just have a seat right there.

We're going to wait for you. Yeah, obviously be right with you. What? No, no, no, no. I've already did all this. I just need my passport. It's good, no, have a seat there. He'll be right with you.

I'm like, oh, shit. this just doesn't sound like I've gotten passwords before I've never had to sit down and wait for an officer so I'm sitting now right and just obviously check it out the exits you know trying to plan my strategy if there does go a foul sure enough I hear like a troop of boots going up the stairs right I look over and sure enough is a guy like a suit and a little badge and some Marines and some other staff and he's got a piece of paper a black and white piece of paper with my face on it And I'm like, oh shit, this can't be good. He walks up to me, Gunner Jenkins. I said, yeah, yeah, how you doing?

He goes, listen, you need to come with you. No, I'm good, man. I'm good, thank you. I'm good. No, no, no, you need to come with me. No, I'm pretty much good. They start being in. Okay, okay, okay, that's all you got to say, I'm worried, okay?

So we're going to say, he goes, yeah, Gunner Jenkins, you have warrants out of the Northern District of Texas for mail fraud, wire fraud, bank fraud, telemarking fraud, aiding and abetting. It's like, you got the wrong guy. I've never been to Texas, which I didn't, you know. And it turns out, during all these crimes that we were perpetuating in Orlando, we thought we were smart by putting a PO box in Dallas and using Dallas Skype numbers, area codes. Sure enough, that basically allowed them the North District Texas to indict us on,

in addition to the other crimes we did. So you said, you should have already. known this. All your friends have already been arrested. None of my friends. The individuals I worked with that were on my case, I didn't really know them. Right. You know, I didn't hang out with them. I don't communicate regularly. Like Mr.

Rich Mendez, like, we left them bad terms. So, like, I was like, now I was thinking like, for sure, like, oh, shit, they got the wrong guy. You know what I mean? Because I didn't think the PO boxes and that sky, I was like, because I've never been to Texas. That definitely wasn't me. So I was thinking like, oh, shit, there's like, A little. Do they tell you the name of the charge?

Well, yeah. Is it wire fraud? Mail fraud? Wire fraud. Bank fraud. Telemarketing fraud and aiding them better. Well, telemarketing fraud, you probably, that should have given you. Like, a lot of people, they'll say, like, wire fraud, and they're like, wire fraud.

I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. They don't realize that wire fraud covers a lot. A lot, yeah. Almost, almost, like, it could be so big, yeah, yeah, it blankets a lot of them. And mail fraud can be, can be. I never mailed anything. Did you email anybody?

Yeah. And listen, them postal inspectors, no joke. Yeah. They got guns. They're basically FBI agents. Yeah, but they're like, they're one of the individuals. They do a lot of, they do a lot of work on Ponzi schemes. Those guys are very intelligent and they are good at what they do because you think,

oh, postal inspectors, this is the postman. No, the motherfuckers are badass too. You know what I mean? Shit. So, ultimately at this point time, now they're going to hand me over. they're going to, you know, ex-eye me. So there's nothing I can do.

Now I'm fucked. So they take me to do this little tunnel to hand me over to the Dominican version of DEA. Because that's who actually, what's holding me, DEA. DEA is active in the Dominican Republic.

It's not FBI or, you know, it's DEA because it's a pit stop for a lot of drugs. It's like a trampoline type thing. Right. So DEA handed me over to the Dominican version of DEA. So now

I get in the middle of the the backseat, you know, got this guy here, got AR-50, this guy here, I'm handcuffed here, and I'm going to get process to get exited back. So as I'm doing the paperwork,

Dominican officers, they're like, they're almost fascinated with me because they realized the millions of dollars, they actually got it wrong. It said 40 million, but it was only 24,

but, yeah, I know, so only, yeah, God damn it, you know what I mean, but they were fascinated by it.

They'd befriending me on Facebook right there. in front of me, you know. I got to keep my phone and everything until I got to where I was at, right? So they were like, Matt Coulvin. And let me smoke cigarette. While I was in the car, I'm drinking a beer before I learned. They pump up the music. Let me jam out before they take me to the jail. We're like hanging out like two hours. Finally, we got to take you to jail. So I ended up getting into the jail. And I remember walking in there. And I'm still a little buzzed off drinking. You know what I mean? I'm hanging out with these guys. So I'm a handcuffed. I guess smoking a

cigarette. No, no, no, I remember going in. I said, hey, look, I need you to go give me a cigarette. I need you to get this. They were like, like doing it. Right. So I get the cigarette. I'm smoking in the captain's office. I didn't even know that. I'm smoking him with the cigarette. Next thing you know, I'm going on. Boom, smacks a cigarette. And he's like, what the fuck is going on? You know, the captain, like, and basically put me in my place. So now, you know, I had to get humbled because at first everyone was like doing what I needed them to do. They start to process me and they're about to put me in. And the cell. And if you guys ever

seen a third world prison, I mean, shit, America's prison look like a damn resort. I'm not even exaggerating. I go to go put in the cell and it's like I mean six by eight maybe. There's like seven people like layered

on top of each other. There's no air condition, no circulation, no windows, a hole in the floor for a toilet, no running water. I mean, I was like, no, I ain't going in there. No, I don't know. I was like, look. I'm not going in there. No, I said, look, dogs in my country live better than that.

Ain't no fucking way I'm going in there. And sure enough, ultimately, I got my, you know, what I wanted. I paid $300, got my own cell. I paid the car even got me all my brand new sheets, blankets, and everything of that nature. Now, mind you, they don't have the same system as Americans do either. So if you want something such as food, hygiene, so on and so forth, you got to either have your family bring it to you or you got to pay for it. You know, they gave you one thing in the morning, which is, I think, like a little biscuit. After that, nothing happens.

But mind you, if you have money, you have the freedom to buy and indulge and whatever. You know, I was getting manicures, pedicures. I even paid the officers to let me go gambling at the casino on a Saturday night because, you know, You know, like I said, their salaries are so poor and they don't have supervision. Right. So they had the freedom to do what they want to do. Ultimately, I stayed there in that prison, and there was news of the fact that I was held there. So at one point in time, somebody tried to break me out to extra, to take me, to hold me for ransom or some shit.

Because they locked the whole prison down, because I thought I was going, because I'd never been extradite anywhere. So I thought, I didn't know. So they come in there, they hold them and say, yeah, we're here for the American here. They're like tactical gear. You can't see nothing but their eyes. So, yeah, we're here to take the, they had a piece of paper my name on it. And then they locked everything down. And I'm all locked in my cell.

And then the next morning when I'm like, hey, what's happened? I was supposed to go? Because I wanted to get back to the United States because I thought as soon as I get there, I can make a bond and get out. I didn't know, like how the feds work. But so that's what I thought. So the next morning when they unlocked everything, it was like, no, those weren't even, they were trying to get you. I'm like, what? They're like, yeah, there was some individuals that wanted, and I don't know what they were trying to do, but it wasn't official.

So ultimately, I waited there six weeks. A Marshall came, picked me up. Extra may I be back to the United States? And here I am. And you get a lawyer? Yeah, well, I got to. What did the lawyer say? Well, first, they took me to the first port of entry, which was FDC, Miami.

me. And at that point, I like, you know, the gratitude, gravitude of the situation really didn't seek in. Like, you know, just, I don't know. I was just, probably naive or wishful thinking. I don't know what I was thinking. But I just didn't sink in. But I know when I went to the bond hearing, and they denied me bond. And I was like, oh, shit. Like, I'm not coming out of this bitch until the end. You know what I mean?

What were they offering you? Oh, I signed a plea for five years. Okay. What I actually got was 10 years. Okay, how come? Why? Why? What happened there? I think how the feds work. It's one of the things called the dummy deal. Yeah, my judge was a dick. You know, I remember getting sentenced. Look, it was the craziest shit because you're sitting there waiting to get sentenced. You know, you got your guidelines, which shows you what you're going to get. You're going to get you five years, you know? So you're thinking, okay, I don't know, I guess that's like real. I was in a news, signed a plea for five years, you know what I mean, as well as other individuals in my case. So you're going to go to court and I'm thinking like, oh shit, I've got to get this time and go home soon. know sure enough i'm sitting there and the damn judge says to me my my attorney says to me

don't say too much just you know so i just said what i thought was right your honor i knew what i was doing wrong anything to court imposes on me i accept willing thinking the max are getting five years i think i go yeah right like hindsight i wish i would say so much more like this person's sick i need to be i mean i could have said all kinds of shit i could do but i just took it like that you took a break for 15 minutes before the judge does the ultimate sentencing and I come back in

he starts off by giving this little speech about how white-collar crimes and begin slaps on the wrist and like oh shit this doesn't sound good like what

okay but maybe he's just trying to sound good for the court writings or some shit yeah I need to make an example or I'm like example hold on not with me the next guy yeah but not with me

like you can definitely make an example but don't do it with me and sure enough he started 120 months I'm like what? I said to my attorney

my attorney's like quiet yeah he goes quiet I said oh I swear I thought he said 120 months it must be like probation or something

I don't know what the fuck did not sentence 120 months federal business what the fuck just happened I just got 10 years sure enough shut a tear

yeah Oh, yeah, I'm sure. It's one of those things. I'm maddened up to admit it. Yeah. And fucking shed a tear because it's like I'm in this hellhole or another. The crazy part was the next guy he was talking about. My sentence was me.

I was in the same scene waiting for him to come back. Well, I didn't mean like next case. You know what I mean? I would say like, the next guy, get in that. I'm telling the part that he said nobody in this case is getting less than 10 years. You forgot about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, he did say that. And I was next.

He was dead. Yeah. He passed him in the hallway going, yo, bro, it's going to be that. No, no. We've got in the cell. We got the cell.

I was like, he said, look at me. I was like, 10 years. My band, I was like, no,

stop lying to him. I was like, dude, I can't lie about that. Like, I got a bucket. I mean, just look at my face.

Like, I was probably pale as it goes. It was just one of those things. Like, I mean, until, first of all, it's very,

very imposing, very intimidated being a federal courthouse. Yeah, they got these. history. Like this thing, like some real shit's gone down here. You know what I mean?

They got painting from freaking like, I don't know what, 19, I don't know what, it just looks like history. Then you got this big imposing judge, you know, that has an incredible amount

of power over your life. Sure enough, you definitely earned your way in front of them. Right. majority of us, you know what I mean? But like,

depending on how he feels, now they got guidelines, but they can go above or below. It's fucking, they're like, federal judge. Right. And they had an immense amount of power over you, your life, not over you, but your, your, your future of your life.

And I come back and I tell my buddy like, hey, you know, they said there were no way, he's getting less than 10 years, you know, and he's like, dude, you're lying on. I can't lie about that, you know. I ultimately, you know, he ended up getting six and a half, which he thought he was going to get less as well, you know. I actually genuinely felt bad for the dude because his role. role would have been like a janitor getting that much time you know what I mean he didn't play a significant role I've always told them that you know

I was gonna say mine just before I was sentenced like all the guys were like oh you're here for bank fraud you ain't getting it I'm like now I think I'm gonna get probably 10 or 12 years and they're like pro they ain't given me no 10 or 10 I come back with fucking 26 years guys are like what the fuck what I'm like 316 months they're like

no I'm like yeah I remember this one guy It was a gay guy He said Oh my God He is He didn't throw He didn't throw the book

At you He jumped over the He is Whatever the The bench Yeah He was He jumped over the

The bench And bludged you With it And I thought What fuck did you What like What? You know what?

You know what? He was so flamboyant I would have laughed If I wasn't If you were It's Fucked out Yeah

Just stunned Yeah It's literally Like I said It is like you can't even describe it. It's like an out-of-body experience. You still feel completely numb, like, right?

I experience a death, a close family member. Right. And it was similar to that when I got the news. But the death was you. Yeah. It was your death. I died. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah. Like, what the fuck just happened? Like, what happened with your wife? Like, where's the wife? That's interesting. So I ultimately, I get back to the cell or the block from court. I couldn't even call that day. Like, it's just no way I could have done it.

Now, mind you, up into this point, we've been there, supporting it the whole time. You know, and I don't know if anyone understands how, one, this case. It was a sophisticatedly complicated case and multiple co-defendants. And these individuals, it was only me and another individual that was actually incarcerated. Everybody else was on bond. Now, these guys still had big money, like, still multimillionaires. So they had powerful attorneys, literally 120,000 of, attorneys like working on and they were doing everything in their power to extend their freedom as well

as doing all kinds of tricks and stuff like that and because we were a conspiracy to they're all kind of out there cooperating to try and mitigate their circumstances and they've got the big time attorneys to help absolutely extending whatever freedoms they have and getting them while we're sitting in there so it took a couple years before you went to court and all that time my wife was there for me the whole time. So when I finally get sentenced, I say to her, hey, look, Maria, I got 10 years. And she later, until you break my heart, I'm crying. You know, I'm so sorry. I was like, yeah, look, we need to get a divorce. I can't have you to do this time with me. Like, that's completely unfair. As much as you want them there. Yeah, yeah. But at the same token, it's really

selfish. You know what I'm saying? Like, so I told her, look, we, I need to, I got to divorce you, you know? And ultimately, she said, no, I'm not going to. I'm not. going to leave you, you know what I mean? I'm going to wait. I mean, which is the greatest thing to hear. But like the same token is like, it also sucks having an individual out there because doing time and a relationship is like, what the fuck? He's heard this. The guys that have

the hardest. Yeah. Guys that have wives and kids. They have, they do the hardest time. It sucks so bad. But as I say, you want that, but it's like a gift and a curse. I don't know how you explain it other than when I, ultimately, she ended up remarrying children moved on. You know, I still had to do at the time

like maybe three more years, but it was It was like, it was like a weight got off my chest, you know what I mean? Like, I don't have to worry about that anymore. I don't have, you know, because it was always like how hard it was for her. And it's like, yo, I'm a man. I'm a provider. I just like, you know, I can't do nothing. I'm powerless, you know.

One side of relationship. She turns into a one side. All you can do at this point is where were you last night? Send me this. Oh, my God. Call so and so. And then that is a complete, for her, it's like, you're just, when that phone reans, it's annoying.

Yeah. You're just a drain on. me. You can do nothing for me. Nothing at all. And for a woman, that's not. Ask me and, yeah, absolutely. Like I said, yeah, that's one thing I'll tell you, anyone understands prison. Prison destroys lives.

Relationships, everything. It's though, obviously, it is what it is if you go there, you know, I mean, whether you earned it or not, but it will destroy relationships, lives. And the craziest thing about it is the fact that, like, the families where the loved one, they literally pay also a price. You know what I mean? Whether it's like you said,

sending you the money or do, you know, it's like it affects so many people, you know. So you did three more years. Did it. When did you get out? So I ultimately got out on November. I went to the halfway out July,

2023. Okay. So I completed that program. which was, like I said, I'm obviously no use to, aware of it. Yeah. Suck balls. But, you know, they got a couple of things in it. They actually pretty, they teach you psychology.

I knew some of this stuff. I didn't know some of the stuff they had titles for, but they do teach you some interesting things. Like, one of the things I will always allow myself is to be a student of whatever and always learn. You know, I get to a point where I know it all. So, yeah, you know, you can learn. I learned a lot in prison, too, believe it or not.

Prison, there are some things and walks of life in there, that can be applied in the real world. It's, I feel tangible and can be beneficial. You know, sometimes I'll be talking about it. I was like, damn,

that guy needs to go to prison because he, fucking, he needs to learn some respect, you know what I mean, so on and so forth. So there were some goods and bads. You know,

I'm a real firm believer in the whole thing of like, your interpretation of the situation is negative or positive. It's what you actually bring in. Yeah, you can make, you can make something of, you can make something. You get five years or three years or something.

You can, you can turn that into a more positive experience for yourself. Unless you just go in there and just complain and bitching. Yeah. And you can either be that or you say, hey, you don't want, happy and grateful in this situation. I want to make the best of it out of it. Yeah.

Absolutely. Start a plan, you know, come up with a business idea, work on the website. Lots of guys have done that. There's tons of guys. Not tons, but I know several guys that went in, built entire apps. They wrote a website. They came up with complete business plans that they got out and started implementing it. But I was saying when you said art app, like I know we were took before the podcast.

we were talking about Ardap and stuff, but I've always said, like, I even, I think I said this the other day, I was talking to somebody about it, and I said, even if you went into Ardap and faked your way through it, you're going to pick up something. You're going to pick up something. Absolutely. You're going to learn something about yourself.

And I always said, like, I think, I don't think they should release you until you've gone through it, because it's, you know, it's not about drugs. It's about, you know, criminal thinking. Yeah, psychology. Yeah, absolutely. You're going to learn something. If you really apply it, it might change your way of thinking completely.

but even if you think, oh, I'm going to fake my way through it, which is very difficult. Yeah, you're going to, it's going to sink in somehow, some way. It's going to change. It will improve your, it will improve your outlook in some way and help restructure your criminal thinking and thought process in some way, you know, in a better way. Maybe it might make you a better criminal.

It might just make you a better human being. It's just, it will improve. Yes. Now, the thing is how you apply it. But if they took our, system of incarceration, a little different direction. Because, you know, again, I'm from Iceland, so I'm still considering for European and Scandinavian and whatnot.

And if you look at the way that they handle incarceration, it's more about reform. And look, I'm telling you, there's some real deal of monsters in prison. Yeah. And there's some hardcore violence going on in prison. Yeah, there's some people should never be released. Absolutely.

Like, you can get PTSD from some of the shit that you see in there. Yeah. Like, you know, and I get like how people go to war. and they come back like fucked up because they seemed like you know i mean like disregard of human life you see the same thing in there like and a lot of people really don't understand like what goes on behind the walls because i didn't know i swear to i didn't know until i seen now mind you i didn't go to the worst of the worst you know i mean i was in medium custody the whole time used to see some of the most fucked up shit dude and like people die in prison all the time and like we don't in this is i don't

even like i don't even think it makes a news does it I think medical kills more people in prison. My God, listen. That was the leading cause of death in prison. I came out handicapped down here from medical. Lack of and they're misdiagnosing. I know guys missing eyes. I know guys that they've died from they weren't given their insulin,

even though they were begging for it. I mean, there's all kinds of things that they have heart attacks and they won't treat them until they eventually die and then they rush in there and put them on the gurney, run out. Like, we're trying to help him. Like, he's been complaining for four days about his heart fucking. It looks good for the cameras. Right. They never die in the institution.

It's always he died on his way to the hospital. It's like, really, because when you got him in the morning and bed, he was his chest. He was as stiff as a board. He'd been dead for hours. He'd put him on the gurney and acted like you were. And then he died in the ambulance. We almost saved him. He just got, like, it's horrible.

It's a horrible situation. Absolutely. But, yeah, I, I, I. Oh, another thing I would say, mental health. health. I can say this right now. It's something in the prison system. Like, I always say like 80% have a struggle with real mental health. And I don't think society actually deals with it. No, they do. They deal with it. They put them in prison. I think that's the new hospitals for mental health now. They don't have. So Reagan, Ronald Reagan in 86, you know, we used to have real mental health

hospital all over the United States. Reagan started closing them. And I love Ronald Reagan. Yeah. But he did some fucked up shit. And we know. And one of them was they stopped the funding for all of these mental health programs and all these hospitals. And what they did was now we just wait till they commit a crime. And we throw them in federal prison. They'll treat them there. Well, they don't treat them there. No.

They put them on Thorazine or some drug. Wellbutrin or pros or all kinds. Thorazine or. There's another one they love to put them on. I know we're talking about. Everyone likes it. Yeah, yeah. People want to get it.

Yeah, they go to sleep or sleep a day. Right. I mean, these guys are just like zombies and that's it. So, yeah, it's, I was going to say, and then sometimes there's actually a unit in the medium security prison. There was a whole unit. Site units. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or mental, where your roommate has mental problems and you take care of them and you get paid.

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My buddy, Zach, what they call him mentors. He was a mentor. He was put in a two-man cell with the other guy was, had major anger problems. He was bipolar, but extreme bipolar. and he basically, you take care of this individual. Yeah, they'll pay you for it, right? They pay you like $25 or $75 a month or a quarter or something like that.

I was a little GED teacher. I thought that was a big pay. I had $22. The level of, like I said, prioritization of reformity and so on and so forth is so small. You know what I mean? Like the art thing is you're given that at the end. Yeah. You can't take it until the last three years.

And if you take it and you pass it, it knocks a year off. So now you're within a few months of going to halfway out. Because that's how they want you to do it. But, you know, if they spent more time doing things like that, you can do things voluntarily, so on and so forth, you know, programs. I'll tell you, at my prison, they didn't have enough things. Like, there are tons of people that wanted to do better. And whether their educations, they didn't have it available.

You know, it's funny. What they should teach is, like, they should have more vocational training, like drywall, electrician, plumbing. Plumbing. Because then you can get out and make $150,000. Immediately almost, yeah, absolutely. So these guys are like, well, I went back to crime because I couldn't make any money. Really? Because you're an electrician or you're a plumber.

You actually have a trade. Yeah, you do have a trade. So if they could maybe say, hey, if you learn this trade, pass the course, we'll knock a year off your sentence. Like if they gave them those types of incentives. They would jump on it. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Everybody. But they don't want to do that. They don't want to give you an incentive for, oh, you should just want to do it. Listen, fuck you. I know I should want to want to. But he's not going to give him an incentive. But if I did learn this, still prevent me from doing it. So I still win, win. Everyone win. Or help give them job placement in the halfway house. You're going to a halfway house. We're going to a halfway house. We're going to give you job placement on a roofing crew. God, Haffey House is another disaster. I'd rather,

everybody's, I'd rather have done the rest of my time in prison than go to halfway house. Literally another disaster. It's just so many things that are broken in the system. Yeah, you know,

even if you tweak the hell out of it, it still wouldn't be perfect. There's never going to be a perfect system, but boy, it could be a lot better. Yeah. It could be a lot better. At least try.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, so I totally agree with that. So what happens after you get out, what you've been doing for the last? Yeah. Okay. So since I come home, where's the time share?

Well, I've got a call center right now. Absolutely not. I've actually, you know, it's so funny too because I've had a couple people talk to me and I was like, I look, they're like, I think it was at the Happy House or even, you know, I was watching commercials and there's like, get out your timeshare or timeshare exit or

there's like big business doing that. I'm like, what? That's like, I literally got like indicted on something very similar to that. I know a guy getting pleading guilty right now. now. For the time share exit one? No, he started a company that was, he would get the leads. He would contact these people that are in timeshares and he'd say, I can get your money back. But we split at 50-50. And what he would do was he had a lawyer and everything and they would go after the, I'm sorry,

they would go after the, I don't think it was a merchants, but whatever, they'd go after Visa or the bank and get them to say, hey, look, this is what's going on. You knew it was a time. times here. They had a whole argument where they would threaten to file whatever, and they would pay him back $7,000 or $12 or $18, whatever it was. And this is years later. They would actually get that money back? They would get the money back. But keep in mind, I'm getting you $10,000 back. He's taking 50% of it. I don't think that looks good. Like if he had done something more reasonable, like an attorney, 33% or something. Either way. But if he discloses it, is that criminal? No, I don't think it is, but eventually he got, ethical. Eventually he got indicted. For some reason or

another. He's got a whole reason why of why he feels there was an investigation started. He ended up getting the, the feds came in, and they got him. And he was going to go to trial and just recently kind of decided like, he was talking to me. And I was like, listen, bro, don't go to trial. Like, no, but I didn't do this. I don't give a shit what you think you did or didn't do. They're going to get 12 people that worked for you to go sit down. Oh, but easy. They're going to be talking about stuff that you're like, I never said that. It doesn't matter whether you did it. So I think he's probably pleading guilt. He said he's going to.

I don't know if he's signed anything yet. But yeah, there's, I know tons. I mean, I've done tons of guys that are doing the resales and the, you know. Yeah. You're the only person I know that did was in on the beginning. Like I didn't really know how that worked. I thought like it was connected to a vacation or it was something. Yeah.

Well, they didn't call me the timeshare resale came for nothing. God, I hate that name. But, yeah, so I've seen a bunch of that. So when I first came home, as of right now, I've been released and I was working with Planet Fitness. I sustained an injury with Planet Fitness, and I had won a lawsuit. So since then, I have actually applied that I'm starting a, I don't want to give away my whole thing because I don't want some to steal my idea. But it's a thing, it's a workshop for date night. that applies to my main passions as one of my passions or hobbies of my sneaker head.

Okay. Yeah. And I plan to do something. They actually, first of all, I can't even act like it's a, they actually have one. They have one in Vegas. They have one in L.A. They have one in Miami. But I want to do a sneaker workshop for day night where they give plain white, like kind

of you're doing your painting and things of that nature where you get all white Air Force One. I provide all the material paint, tools and things available. And you customize them for your, a date thing and you know okay i was i didn't understand the date the date the date yeah well because they have like sip and paint it's one they have these things where molding clay you know oh it just technically doesn't have to be a date so i don't want if they don't need to put it as a date i think that's kind of like putting in a bunch some people will go and they'll do they'll do like a pottery class where they let they make a pot while they're having there's all kinds of stuff like yeah yeah

i had plan to go with my girlfriend would do make fresh noodle or pasta pastas and that's kind of like a thing that you make it and cook it's just something like along that trend that's where sneakers are popular. These couple activities or workshops are popular. So something along those lines. Hey you guys, I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Also, we're going to leave all of Gunner's social media links in the description box. Once again, I really appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Consider joining my Patreon. It's $10 a month and it really does help Colby and I make these videos. Thank you very much. Oh yeah. Also, we'll leave the description for our shorts channel. our clips channel in the description also. Please join these channels. They need help.

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