Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Too High for Crime: Real Stories of Hilarious Hustle Fails

Episode Date: April 26, 2025

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They pull us over. I'm thinking, whatever, you know, can we search a car? Absolutely not. Why do you want to? We're not doing anything. We're just driving somewhere. Well, I smell the odor of marijuana heavily. I'm thinking, I got nothing.

I'm good. All right, F it. We get out. They searched the car. And the guy comes back with a tin foil pipe this big. Where did you find that? And he's like, well, you tell me, I get it out of the glove box. I'm like, this not mine.

Did you act offended the whole time they were searching? Like, I can't believe. I would never. Oh, my God. You guys have the wrong room. Listen, I would love to pretend like I did. We had this little closet, and I had this huge flag that had a cannabis leaf on it. But you're still selling it.

When you're an addict, like money doesn't mean you stop. You know what I mean? Like having security of money or a house. Like you don't realize like, oh, shoot, I spent so much of my life as an addict. And especially when you see people that are successful or maybe, you know, go to high school and then go to college and they get this good job and they do all these day. And you're like, oh, wow, I chased a high for 20-something years. Hey, this is Matt Cox, and I am here with Rob Stevens, and he is a former drug addict and current YouTuber, and we're going to hear his story. So check it out. Well, listen, in the immortal words of Christopher Wallace, when he said, never get high on your own supply, me and my friends just had no regard for that.

That was really what started all the trouble for me. Listen, I had a great growing up, you know, well, up until my parents divorced. But growing up was fine. Our house was almost like a hostel, you know, whoever needed any kind of help. Where were you born? I mean, where? I was born in Framingham. I lived outside Boston forever.

We moved around a lot. So we lived in Hawaii when I was really, my dad got into real estate. And listen, a few years ago, I don't know. I don't talk to my family anymore, and it's unfortunate. But one of the last times I've seen my uncle, he said, you know, your dad, you know, sold cannabis. I said, I kind of figured, you know, when you're growing up and you go visit your grandmother and she's showing you these 1970s printout photos, remember before they were digital, of like eight-foot cannabis plants in the backyard, you think something's up.

But we had a great time growing up. We lived in Hawaii. We lived in Ashland, Hopkinton, Framingham. So we moved all over the place. But the one recurring theme was that if you ran into trouble, if you needed something, we would take you in. So growing up, we always had, you know, someone living in the house with us, usually parties on the weekends. So the culture was just, or looking back, what was normal for me, just was not atypical. you know what I mean it was just very naturalized into the party scene i guess you could say and my dad

so he started a construction company with him and his brother and they built it up to be something big where you know he wanted to sell it off uh i'll get into what happened later uh because i don't want to say too much about that because it's a really you know it's one of the worst weeks of my life um but so he had this construction company and a few bifit were construction And the guys that do that are hardened, I don't know what to call them. Well, some of them were convicts. That's the other thing. You know, my dad had no issue hiring anybody out of jail, out of prison, giving him a second chance.

He really, he'd give you the shirt off his back. So I grew up in a fantastic atmosphere up until my teens. Once they started a split and there was less supervision, I guess you could call it. Right. um that's when the trouble started and when you're growing up in smaller towns as soon as you get one running with the cops you kind of become marked you know they they like to single people out and we had one cop in our no no no there were a few cops in our town that you just couldn't do anything we were lucky though because we had so you know the triple deckers in massachusetts

my buddy lived on the first floor and this guy that had moved into the top of floor who is the most inconspicuous i'm telling you if i seen him today he was such a generic white guy i probably couldn't identify him you know what i mean he was like he was like every um drawing that they do for a police sketch combined together it's like you could not identify this this dude was the where's waldo of white guys and he had someone he knew up in vermont that he could go and pick up massive amounts of cannabis and this was at a time again where in the 90s you either got brick weed or like chronic you know there was no like today there's all these variations there's you know you can get the uh the specific percentage of THC you can get all and and really it was like when you were going through high school or middle school most of the time it was like this brickweed that was literally packaged off of a brick still had seeds in it was flattened it was the most disgusting stuff or you had somebody that had a connect we became that connect because when

you're and he was going up to vermont so he was bringing back what was it the white widow purple hey everything that was like the highest caliber weed today he had access to so this random middle age guy that did not have a connection to any kind of market uh me and my buddy basically became that. But again, these cops, now I've got to say, it's going to be different

me telling my story than what you probably regularly feature because we weren't criminals. I'm not a criminal. Listen, 70 to 75% of the stuff I did, if you did it today,

it wouldn't be criminal activity. You'd be a medical patient. And listen, if you sold, grew or smoked cannabis, You're not a criminal. You're practically a doctor, right?

There's a fine line now. You don't believe me? I hear you, but I've met guys in prison for 20 and 30 years for selling cannabis. That's what I'm saying. The Federal Bureau of Prisons and the U.S. Attorney's Office and the, you know, the DEA and, you know, all of they have a vastly different. And they've got it wrong. Hold on. Hold on.

Here's the, no, no, no, I'll prove it to you. is that they have the guns and the prisons. They got the power. As much as you're right. I'll tell you what. They don't have the numbers. We got the numbers. All right.

Remember that. When anybody tells you, oh, they got the power. Yeah, we got the numbers. We just need some class solidarity. Hold on.

So if you Google patent number 6-630-507, do you know what that is? That is a patent that the United States has on cannabis, filed in 2001 by the Department of Health and Human Service. I forget what the department is. And it lists cannabis and cannabinoids as a legally recognized medicinal use. Now, if you know still federally, it's what, Schedule I believe it's still federally a Schedule one substance, which is next to heroin, meaning if it's Schedule 1, it has the least

or the highest recognition for being addictive and it has absolutely zero medical use. This is why the big push right now is like Biden said, hey, I'll decriminalize it or legalize it. And they haven't done anything. In fact, when he did that federal pardon, that does nothing. These people with state charges, my friends who had state charges. It doesn't do anything. I know I would love that. They didn't get out.

I'm like the greatest PR move ever. This guy's like, ah, pardon everyone federally. We're like, but there was a thousand state arrests for cannabis in Massachusetts. No one's getting arrested federally. They're not putting money into it. They're not chasing it down. Or what about the another great move? I'm going to satisfy everyone's student loans.

People, yay, yay, six months later, the court goes, he can't do that. And now he's like, get ready to start paying everyone. Nobody has to pay a car payment ever again. And six months later, the Supreme Court says, what's he doing? You can't randomly satisfy fucking loans. It's so crazy, like, what goes on. So essentially, that's what I bring that up all the time. And I worked in radio for 20 years.

And that was what I was trying to push because the government can't have it both ways. They can't say, like, this is the hardest drug there is, which is just ridiculous. But also in 2001, put a patent on it for recognizing its medical quality. Right. You know, so it's frustrating because if I had grown up today, none of this, you know what I mean? Like, I just would have been like a doctor's assistant. I would have been like, you know, a physician. Maybe it was alternative medicine, you know, but I would have been looked at way differently.

In fact, when I was on the radio, people would go, well, we were trying to legalize it here in 2017 in Massachusetts. And we would talk to the governor. and he would compare it to the opioid epidemic. And I went, you, listen, I know people who have died from that, and I know people who smoke every day. And if you're trying to draw a parallel between those two, you're crazy. But, you know, it's more important that people really see kind of the truth behind it. Like, the government knows it's healthy or healthy for some people.

They know that it's a solution to certain chronic pain. And so the fact that I even had some kind of criminal record for this is just obscene. So getting that out of the way, my first arrest, right? We would move, I mean, how old were you? Young. I just got my license. That was the biggest thing. When you didn't have a license, it was so hard.

You had to have people come to your place, which was not ideal. You know, we did not want that to happen. And when I got my license, I got this old truck. It was like a 1980 Chevy custom shortbed deluxe. One of these just beaters put a nice paint job on it. And this truck got me in trouble so many times. The muffler would fall off. And if you've ever heard one of those loud trucks with the muffler,

I would rig it up. I always kept, they don't have them anymore. You know the wire coat hangers, which they just don't sell what happened to the, like why did they stop making coat hangers out of wire? Why are they all plastic? Well, if you go to, if you get your clothes, laundered they give you the wired ones that's the only place though yeah you try to buy them in like walmart or wherever um uh target or whatever yeah they're all they don't they're really nice

or they're really nice they're wood they have padding yeah but the wire ones you could use for anything so i always kept a couple wire ones behind the seat and if the muffler fell so one time i got pulled over because the muffler came off and the cop wanted to cite me for a noise violation because that's how loud it was when I was dry. It was late at night. So, you know, it sounded like gun. Do you ever see in the movie, Uncle Buck? Yeah, I love Uncle Buck.

Love that movie. We would call this truck. In fact, most of my cars were an Uncle Buck because you know the backfire, it would just sound like that as you drove. So if you took the wire code hanger and rigged it up so the catalytic converter would stick to the pipe again, it wouldn't be as loud. but this thing was just it was not conspicuous so clearly you knew if I was going around somewhere

and one of the first arrests so you know whatever was 16 and a half I forget when you get your license I was still in high school 16 you get 15 learning permit that's right and then 16 license so we're talking right around then and at this time we had a few different friends who I don't know if it was juvie or jail you know they were just getting out

but these were different again you can have them on your plan i don't think most of them are alive but those were more violent crimes i stayed away from that again i'm not a criminal i just i was a alternative medicine uh pharmacist i'm gonna lean heavily at your medical issue that you were taking it for by the oh you tell me anxiety anxiety sleep nausea back pains headaches i could go off you know every everything under the sun this thing heals i'm telling you but i had already run and made the drop off. And the worst part about all of this is that we never, we weren't doing any of this to make money. It was all strictly to be able to buy more

drugs. That's it. So it was just always parlaying. And that's really where like the addiction came from. I had the unfortunate hookup throughout my life where I almost never had to pay for anything. It always came from, well, if I got enough of this, sold it at this price, I could, you know, get this much for free. That's how we always looked at it. So we would basically never have cash on us. It was always just some other drugs stashed somewhere else. And my buddy wanted a ride from whatever, wherever I was dropping off to the next location. Now, he is a well-known criminal. The cops decide that, you know, they're going to pull us over. I know I have nothing. on me. I'm stoked. I'm like, yeah, good. You know, he's out on probation, whatever. He's not doing

nothing wrong. I ask him, you got a weapon. He's like, I'm clean. All right, let's go. Pull us over. We're fine. Again, the 90s were a different time. The number of times I heard I smell the odor of marijuana get out of the car is remarkable. That was the cop's go-to. That was all they had to say, and all of a sudden, you had no more rights. So they pull us over. I'm thinking, whatever, you know, can we search a car? Absolutely not. Why do you want to? We're not doing anything.

We're just driving somewhere. Well, I smell the odor of marijuana heavily. I'm thinking, I got nothing. You know, I'm good. All right, F it. We get out. They run his stuff. He's fine.

You know, he has charges that he let him know. I have nothing. I think I'm good. They search the car. They search the car. And the guy comes back with a tinfoil pipe. this big. Now, I work, I work construction all through high school, obviously working for my dad's company. You know, it didn't matter if it was like a day off from school or the entire summer.

And you know how sometimes if they're wrapping a sub, they would use tinfoil. Right. I'm sure they still do that. So I must have. And this is why I was so just, you know, willing to be like, yeah, whatever. You know, if you're going to, if you're going to search the car, good luck. you're just very confident on having nothing when he walked back with the tin foil pipe you know my heart stopped because i was like oh jesus is that even you know what i mean like where did you find that and he's like well you tell me i get it out of the glove box i'm like this not mine you know you must have put it in there there's no way i must have made you know this tinfoil sandwich wrapper into a pipe smoked it at work stuck it in the glove box and totally forgot because we were

very you know what i mean we didn't travel unless we had to with anything on us and we certainly weren't stashing in a car we would usually keep it on us try to toss it or whatever it was so this is something that had been used we'll get to the we'll get to the court case in a little bit so i get arrested my buddy who's out on parole doesn't they just let them go they're like can you get somewhere he's like i'll walk so i get arrested and this is my first time getting arrested uh not first running with the cause but the first time i had to go to court and fight this and again you know I'm thinking like, this is, there's no way they're going to be able to pull this off. I'm not going to go to jail.

You know, this is nothing. It's a tin foil pipe where maybe some resonant or, you know, some ash. We go to court and we had a great lawyer. This lawyer to this day, he reminds me, you ever watch the Better Call Saul series? Yeah. This guy, I'm telling you, he was the 1990s version of Better Call Saul because he hung out with us. When I look back, I'm like, it's a little weird, you know, a little weird. but great guy because he was definitely in his late 30s maybe he was a lawyer he had to go through law school he was much older but he would hang out with us he knew everything we would do it you know and he was our defendant and i'm talking about every single one of my friends we kept this guy well employed always going into court so he comes out uh i don't know what it was pre-trial one of the court hearings you know that appearance or yeah yeah yeah first appearance thank you thank you it's been a law

time i'm definitely not close to the 16 um and he shows me the police report and he goes just go home he's like i got this don't don't worry about any more appearances nothing he goes get out of here shows me the police report i read it and this cop writes uh you know strong smell or strong odor of marijuana i don't call it that cannabis it's it's a medicine uh but he writes strong odor of marijuana found a tin foil pipe hot to the touch and I I but I'm young so I was like I don't what he hot to he goes think about it he goes this tin foil hold heat there's no way they pulled you out of the car search the car in this amount of time to say that you know it was hot to the touch right and that's how he got well he didn't get it dismissed so I go on probation for six months

I don't you know there's no time nothing like that it's just an innocent probation. The unfortunate part was they gave you like a seven o'clock curfew. You had to do the drug test. So they weren't messing around. Thankfully, I had some cool parents that if I wasn't in by seven, they would essentially cover for me. But this cop at this point just had, you know, we had me and my buddy who were doing this had a target on our back. I get through the probation. Now, mind you, so I'm not even 17 at this point, or I'm getting close to 17. and we're hanging out at the triple decker, but the front stoop had a little side driveway,

and then there's a fence along it, and there was a supermarket, supermarket, there was something else on the other side, and then in the back there was a parking lot that you could come in, but there was a tree line, so you couldn't necessarily see. So we were hanging out there, and if we were hanging out, we would never have,

you know what I mean? We would only carry enough to smoke, or we weren't carrying a bunch of, weight on us. We just wouldn't be holding it, especially on the side little porch where the driveway was at his house. But there was a group, maybe six of us, most had some kind of record. You know, again, I'm off probation. I'm very innocent at this point. And after about maybe 20 minutes of hanging out, cops busts through the back with flashlight guns drawn, a cruiser pulls up in the front again jumps out freeze nobody move and we're wondering like

what the hell is good we're literally just hanging out outside the kid that had whatever on them i think a pipe and a small small bag just chucks it so go ahead search us we're fine you know that's what we're thinking again nighttime we didn't realize like oh they got flashlights they're going to search the whole area and pray that they find something so you guys are in trouble They do. They find a pipe and, you know, a dime bag, something, nothing. They were just, you could hang outside and smoke. I'm shocked this kid didn't eat it. Right. So none of us will attest that that's ours. In fact, we're denying it. You found it. You're planting it on us. There's no way that, you know, that's, get out of here. Where'd you get that? Across the street or, you know, across the street or, you know, across the property line. We're like not, no one, no one is going to admit to that. And you know how pushy they can get. Well, somebody's going to. They charged my. buddy, whose house it was. So they essentially said it was on your property, we're going to arrest you. And he has to, again, another court appearance. Well, because a few of my friends already had court appearances, and I think two of them were, again, on the probation of parole or whatever,

I'm the one that this lawyer says, hey, listen, you're the only one who has no charges, no court case, no nothing. Now, we need you to come in to testify. would happen, you know, because this is an illegal search and seizure at this point. They had no warrant, no cause, no, no suspicion. Right. There's no reason for them to just randomly pull over and grab three kids and, and search them. Like, did somebody call? Like, what were we doing that? No call, no noise. This is what I mean. It's like really and the fact that we were on his property right next to his door and they were busted. I mean, cops are coming through the back woodline. We didn't see that they had parked in that parking lot behind.

and that they're pulling up into his driveway, you know what I mean, with guns, like, it was the most crazy and bewildering thing. But when you're kind of known as the people who are maybe potentially helping medicinal patients again in the 90s, again in the 90s, I love how you frame this like your Robin Hood. Well, listen, let me tell you, help people. It's about people helping people. I don't people helper. That's all I am. I'm telling you I it's basically medicine and well that's what I was trying to tell you about the radio you try to tell these people like hey it's a medicine they go what are the professionals say and I go who do you consider a professional and they say well you know the doctors the scientists

and I would tell them how many drugs has a doctor or scientist done because I don't do you want to find out about basketball from somebody who read about it in a book no you want to talk to an NBA player we were the NBA players of doing drugs you know so whenever someone Somebody would reference like, well, what are the professionals writing about? I say, why would you want to hear from them? They studied it from the sideline. You want the people who were in the drug game. You want the people who could tell you what it's like when it kicks in.

Those are the professionals. Still, there's a stigma on it. People don't want to believe you, you know? Listen, I'm with you. I hear you. I'm preaching to the choir right now. So, okay, so he goes to court, and now it's my testimony against this cop's testimony. And that is the most terrifying thing because you don't realize, especially at that age.

I mean, you know that there's some abuse of power if you want to call it corruption or whatever. You know, like the badge pretty much a lot, I don't want to say allows you to do anything, but you get a little more freedoms. It holds a lot of weight for some reason. For some reason, it is many, as many corruption cases, as many times, what's funny is as many times as many times as judges see cops get on the stand and blatantly lie they still will take their word over yours I got four people and a video camera and the cop get on there and you're you're actually weighing it well I don't know it's close it's close it's close there's three people that have nothing to do with this that are eyewitnesses and there's a video camera that also helps support his story and

you're still even considering listening to the cop and the cop can still have a questional or questionable behavior in the past, which is what a lot, you know, a lot of times happen. And what did they do? They went to, they went to school for, you know, the police academy for eight weeks. Yeah, you tell me how they're supposed to enforce the laws when, what do the lawyers do? Eight, eight years to learn the law? That is just, I don't know, that's backwards in my mind. So, so you know what we're dealing with then, you know? And when you, when you called to testify, well, at this point, I'm like, I'll do whatever, you know, whatever you guys need me to do if I'm the one that has to get on the stand because everybody else is a questionable

is questionable as a character witness let me get up there and he testified too this cop said you know again the I wasn't in the testimony room but what they were telling me once we got or or in the courtroom they don't let you in until you get to testify or at least that's how it was in my court case we had to sit outside then they call you in for the testimony and then they dismiss you're allowed to leave. So they, you know, they tell me after that, it's like, again, it's this odor of marijuana that can trigger anything. It doesn't matter if it's a raid. It doesn't matter if it's private property. Just the scent of it down the street and seeing people. They were willing to do, you know, compromise whatever. There's no protect and serve at this point. It was like,

we're going to get these alternative medicine heads. So we do that court case. And he wins. they took my testimony and he gets nothing i'm talking about like whoever was the judge on this and that was the other important thing it's weird you know that you learn like when you want to get a judge what court you want to go to what judges you know what what their past convictions are who you really want to see that's where this lawyer was impeccable he knew the court system like no other and he would say listen we want to push it to this day because we can get this judge so you know whatever was the odds were stacked in our favor he gets off and it's you know incredible because you would think they had us dead to rights they had us with um i forget what you'd call it

holding i don't know if that's what you just go you know holding paraphernalia uh whatever else it was or that was probably it but still at this age you know they're putting people away for that they're locking kids up i forget it's a Class D misdemeanor, depending on, you know, how much you have or how many prior convictions you have. So, you know, carries different weight where you're at in the court system or if you have previous charges, which that's what a lot of my friends, you know what I mean? You get busted three times and all of a sudden you're looking at a year or whatever it was. He gets off and this lawyer, our childhood would have been so different without this guy. Remarkable. He goes, we're going

to celebrate. I'm taking you guys. to Montreal. Now, this is like an eight hour drive. We're going to do a weekend away just to celebrate the victory. And this is our lawyer taking us. Okay. This guy is incredible. And you guys paid him. This is not a, oh, okay, this isn't like a public defender. No, no, no. This was a private, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know what kind of deals he was cutting with parents, but, you know, this dude took on a lot of cases for us. Every, every, every thing. I mean, he must have been in another court. We would see him. He would be in with somebody else and we would be coming in the court, be like, hey, you got us next, right? But he, he loved this. And he, I, again, I think

it's the mindset. I think he could see the future and be like, this is not a crime what these kids are doing it. Again, right. These are imaginary borders that some state made up. They might have the power in the guns. We got the numbers. They're staying. It's a crime because you have this magical plant. But really, you know, we're got that thing speech. Well, standing behind a chain link fence with guards with guns and a watchtower and I've heard that same speech many times

I'm telling you I'm empathetic to the cause I say release them all there shouldn't be anybody in jail for a plant get real this is crazy we need to be adults here in America and these cops need to wise up just say hey listen we were wrong we're sorry we're letting everybody out

you think that will happen no I'm pushing for it So we go, okay, so we go up to Montreal, great week and away. My buddy drives with him. I forget what happened that I had a drive alone, but I'm going to meet them up there. Now, I realized when you're crossing a border, you don't want to tell them that you're going to meet your lawyer. That's just not the language you want to use. But for me, again, a young, dumb kid.

This isn't like a hard and criminal story. This is just the ignorance of youth and learning very hard lessons time and time again. So we get to the border and they say like the purpose, reason, or your visit or whatever. And I'm just thinking, oh, I'm going to meet my lawyer. We just beat a case. I'm coming up here to meet my lawyer. You're the kind of guy we want in Canada. They go, can you pull over to the side?

And I have to pull my car. And they, I'm not kidding, they almost took apart the car searching it for what, you know what I mean? I don't know what they thought, why I would bring anything to meet my lawyer, but they wanted to thoroughly inspect and make sure that, you know, this dude isn't dangerous. I mean, I'm a kid, though. Again, it's so, it's so ludicrous that these people would think anything of me. Again, alternative medicine physician or handler. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive? by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size.

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Distributor. Yeah. That's the high. good that's that's that's a that's a I think that's an enhancement oh yeah that might be word I'm telling you the language is everything you have trafficker distributor you know I don't want to up the charge manufacturer her because it's it's not well when you're growing it well and that's the other thing you know we so we we had some friends that there were nurseries by the house you know huge just plant yards So trees for miles, you know, out back in the woods, really hard to get through, too.

And we learned that if you went to the back section where I don't want to give too much. Well, no, no, no, it's all legal now. So you just grow it at home. Well, depending on your state. That's your limitations too. Yeah, yeah. It's very, you know, it's like five years or something. So if you went to the back where it stopped being, you know, the garden section or the plant nursery,

and you found the tree line so you could still get sunlight in, you know, because you don't want the trees block in any kind of light. You could grow all along that. And for the most part, you wouldn't lose any crop. You know, people weren't when they're taking stuff out of the nursery, most of the time, it's already pulled to the shop. It's not going, you know, to the back to resource. And if it was, you could kind of time it and either, you know, pull some crop if it was, you know,

the right amount of time or you did it far enough back where, you knew these trees were not mature yet, you know, and that's really what you would look for. You'd look for something that was just planted. They would set up the time sprinklers, you know, so nobody had to go back there unless there was some kind of issue. And you could just grow along the whole whole edge line. And I'm talking, you know, a mini field of stuff back before it was okay to have these grow setups in your closet or whatever people are doing now. But back to Canada. So we go up to Canada. I get searched, meet up with the lawyer. And it's, I think Canada's drinking age back there, back then was 18. I don't know if they've boosted it, but that's what you could do. You just drive up to Montreal and nobody batted an eye. I don't, I wasn't 18, but you know what I mean? Like they weren't ID and people that were on the 17, 18 year old line. It just didn't happen. So that's, that's essentially why we took that mini vacation because we were going to go up there celebrate, have some people.

is watch the Patriots game whatever and the first couple nights go great I think it was probably Friday into Saturday Sunday the Patriots happened and remind you we're young kids and when you start to mix in alcohol we were mostly potheads we the hard drugs hadn't even hit yet you know so the alcohol would give you that liquid confidence right where a whole different animal would come out And if you want to see debauchery in New England, come and visit any bar on Sunday when the Patriots are playing. And I guarantee you you can find a fight. Just wear whatever other teams insignia there is. And somebody will start with you.

So we were out of town wearing our Patriots. You know, we go to the game. It's grand. We're getting pitches, getting loaded. And we start John with whoever, I forget who they're there. plan the jets of the dolphins whatever florida team you know we just start john with these other people which leads to kind of falling out into the street not falling out into the street but kind of getting kicked out of the bar and a fight ensues and mind you we had just beat this court case so the fact that

we're not like you know and this is why it's like fun fun loving criminals who are just morons you know we were just young and didn't know any better We get into a fight and one of us, I think it was my buddy. It gets thrown onto the hood of a car. It spills into the street. And next thing you know, there's these two, I'm not kidding, six foot blonde, dressed like cops, ladies breaking the thing up and again, drunk, not assuming that we're going to get in trouble, we start melting off to them, you know?

And they're asking us like, is this your car? You're damaging this car? you're breaking stuff off of it. You got tossed onto the Lord. Do you own this car? Like, why do you want to go for a ride? Just let mouth it off to them. Next thing you know, we're both slammed against the wall by both of these ladies.

I've never seen such beautiful cops in my life. I didn't think cops were women at this point. You know, all I had dealt with was middle-aged men that, you know, were ready to just give you a hard time. These two ladies, God bless them, because they must have endured so much, so much mouthing off. before they decided to cuff and stuff us, and we get arrested. So at this point, we're taken to whatever the jail downtown Montreal is.

And because where we were eating buffalo wings or whatever, you know, where we were at the bar, I had some wet naps in my, in my pocket. They thought I was an addict. They thought I was using wet naps to shoot up. They didn't believe that, you know, I was just drunk and I was trying to convince him. So I don't get to go into the. the main holding cell where it was awesome you could still smoke you know so if you had a pack of butts on you my buddy spent the whole time smoking bots hanging out all weekend like had a fine time

they put me to an isolation where i guess there was there was a girl catty corner to me who's detoxing off a heroin and i got my own isolated cell as well thank god i don't know how she got him in there but she had a pack of cigarettes and matches and she was using like a kite to throw them under her door to me so I had something to smoke for the week. Thank God because that like that girl saved my life. I was, you know, not being drunk anymore stripped of all my stuff. Meanwhile, I know my buddy because I could see him when they would walk him down the hall to whatever they were doing. But we're with our lawyer. So we think again, the amount of S talking we did. We're like, yeah, you're not going to keep us in here for long. We're with our lawyer, you know, piss off. He's going to, he's going to post our baby.

We'll fight this whole case. He's awesome. Was he in just another cell? No. He's actually locked up to it in another cell. You got out there like, no, thank God. He didn't get arrested, but the cops must have loved breaking this to us. They were like, oh, yeah, where's he from?

Is he from Canada? We're like, no, we came from the States. He go, yeah, that's our point. He can't practice law here. They were like, we'll get you a public defendant, which was dev, you know what I mean? When you're locked up and you're thinking, like, we got this. Right. with we couldn't have been in better a better situation there's no phone call we need to make we have

our lawyer with us he's probably trying to post our bail outside right now you know as confident as you can be when those cops were like he can't practice law you know whatever it is the royal crown court system or i i don't know how they do it up there again not i wasn't well educated on the laws back then but they broke that to us and we were absolutely crushed we had to get on the phone with this dude who probably mostly spoke French and very little English as a public defender. And at that point, you're like, yo, we've lost. Like, we're going to be in jail for a long time up in Canada. It was devastating. It really is no long time in prison in Canada. Like, you can do all kinds of stuff and get the jail. The jails were immaculate. I still couldn't believe

like the amenities that my when we got released and he was telling me about his stay my stay was very different you know i was in one like an isolation cell was tiny i could have done this and touch both walls and all i had to deal with was this woman or this girl uh who was going through withdrawals the whole time and it was heart breaking because you're just hearing the pain the writhing and i would just go i would you know yell under the door i'd be like hey can you please throw me another a cigarette. She threw me, she got me matches and a cigarette while she's going through withdrawals and about, but again, I'm an idiot. At this point, I should have just like had some compassion, let her keep a cigarettes, but no, every hour, like, yo, please spam me another one.

At some point, she cut me off, but what are you going to do? You know, this lady definitely had it much worse than me. I still can't get why a wet nap, I guess to clean your arm. I, you know what I mean? I don't understand why they would isolate me like that for wet naps in my pocket. But we have to fight this court case now. And this is right off the heels of the other one. So it's exhausting. No wonder my parents divorced. They probably would just tie to me.

He's your fault. Well, I'll tell you what, shortly after this. So when my parents divorced, my dad moved down to Florida right by Tampa. My mom tried to make me go with him. I had a buddy down in Naples where I guess there's some cow pastures if you go inland. And, oh, is there a lot? I only 90% of the state is really, everybody's like Florida, oh, beaches, bro, this is, this is. There's so many pickup trucks and cow pastures and, oh, it's just 90% of the state is like that.

That's really what Florida is. The one that he went to inland, he would take me. I would wait for him to get out of school. I stay at his house. we would go back and after the rain on the cow patties, magic mushrooms would grow. So we would pick a ton of them. And back again, before 2001, you could fly.

And as long as you were willing to carry sign, I had a hat that had an inseam that, you know, it was like a bucket hat. It was a big bucket hat made out of wool. So it was like knit. So big thick, you know, you could wear it in the winter. Nobody would bat an eye. And it had an inseam stitched into it.

So you could stick whatever you want around the entire brim of the hat. And if you were willing to just carry something on your person, because obviously, you know, they would have, I only saw dogs once when we had stuff, but they would just walk the dogs by the luggage, you know, and you would see them. But before 2001, there was no security. I mean, you could walk up to the gate and buy a ticket and just walk through. It was such a wild time. Now when you think about like taking your shoes off and all this stuff, it was a different animal flying. So going back and forth to Florida, you could bring essentially whatever you want, as long as you knew, the risk and as long as you weren't you know through a few times where I was carrying so many

mushrooms I was like I don't know if I could eat all these and still survive you know not come out nuts but it was just you could do it you know it's so fascinating to think back on that for all you young ins out there I don't know where the camera is so oh so so we fight this court case in Canada and they don't make me come back and I guess the lawyer got me a plea deal where I became seven years inadmissible. So I could not return to Canada for seven years because of the, they charged me with criminal mischief. So you get a, they've just been devastating. Listen, being, being under 21 and that being kind of the location where you could, you know, a half days drive to go up and do it at St. Catherine Street. If you've never been there,

it's a, well, I don't, I haven't been there again in 20 years. But it's a, it's a, real good it's like ibor city who were not as not as floridae imagine like a french ebor city you know so they have all the party party places to go i don't know if they've cleaned it up but it was just beautiful too so yeah that was devastating um but at this point the trouble that kept finding us can i put it like that i don't know if it was finding us or maybe just you know none of this is your fault it couldn't have been right i didn't contribute to this at all but again i was in a shitty area of town asking people to buy drugs and i you know and this bad stuff happened this bad i'm telling you it's these cops if they would stop trying to do their job so much

i would have been okay but at this point i'm thinking again naively thinking like trouble's chasing me I didn't think I was going to graduate high school. In fact, I had dropped out for a year. I just did construction and working with all these guys who were, I would say, a little more heavy into the addiction. And that's kind of what opened it up for me when you're, you know, hanging out with these construction workers after work. I felt like, you know, my time was limited on the outside. If I saw so many friends continually, well, one of my friends who just jumped off a bridge two years ago, He had been locked up from before even getting a license.

This kid just committed suicide a couple of years ago. Yeah. He had just had his second child who at the funeral I held him three months old. Absolutely devastating. And just so you know, this kid, we grew up next to each other. People used to think we were brothers. So forever, I mean, when he was on the run, one of the times the cops busted in my houses because I was letting him stay with me.

you know what I mean he was on the run so we had such a tight relationship that it didn't matter what was going on I was always there for this kid but the unfortunate part was getting out of jail for him he never felt like there was hope you know being an addict having a record he was never like oh well I'm going to go on the straight in an hour narrow I'm going to go get a job now for him it was like I'll just deal more drugs hope that addiction doesn't get well I don't even know if he was hoping that addiction didn't kill him. I think at this point, you know, because he was, Jesus, 30-something, he was just too young. But at that point, well, and this is, the reason I'm bringing that up is because I saw what was happening to really close

ransom. It just became this loop, this vicious cycle of, you get out of jail, you think there's no hope. So you just kind of go back to what you're doing. You're not trying to, you know, do And again, back then, people weren't considering rehab as like a real, you know what I mean? That wasn't like a real option. There was no real knowledge about PTSD or addiction as much as we have today. You know, people are way more hypervigilant on kind of identifying this stuff. And I think there's more compassion today. Back then, people didn't care.

You know, it was just you do, you're partying. You know, it wasn't about addiction. It's funny. My father, you know, was an alcoholic and he, you know, he would go on these whatever week-long binges, two-week binges. And at some point, he and my mom went to the doctor to talk to the doctor because it was so not an open thing addiction. Yeah. So hidden back then. This is back in like the 50s, right? Or 50s and 60s. They went to the doctor and he explained what was happening. And the doctor said, you're an alcoholic he almost got into a fist fight with the doctor in the in the in the little like patient room my mom like you better give me a different prognosis so different diagnosis an alcoholic means you're you're like a bum you're you're somebody on the street that can't you know you're you're a drunk you're a drunk and he basically i mean that was just like a huge insult he's i'm a sick i'm successful i make good money i've got you know i've got you know two kids

like, what do you talk? I mean, we eventually have, there's four kids, but at that point, I think he had like two kids. It's like, what are you saying? What do you? You know, Furious just immediately blew up because, but now if you were to say that. No, the stigma. Right. Because back then, it was to be, uh, an alcoholic, it was, you know, somebody who is on the street begging for change so that could go by their next 40. Yeah, but that didn't even lift. I mean, we're talking about into the 90s where that stigma still. stuck, you know? And unfortunately, even with into the 2000s, and we'll get into that when Oxy broke onto the scene, you saw people who would go to the dentist and get prescribed,

you know, Vicodin, and then it wasn't working. So they would go to OxyContin. And all of a sudden they're full blown addicts going to heroin. And again, because I watched this happen to people I know, they went, well, I'm not an addict. You know, I did. high school sports or I go to call you know it was all these like rationales of like well it can't be me right trust me nobody wakes up and they're like you know what today I got to get to be an addict I get to go out sir not an addict aren't you selling your TVs right now your heroin addiction yeah I'm an addict you third time at the pawn shop today I'm pretty sure that was oh my God and that was another racket that friends would do

just dealing with the punch up but oh so i forget where we were oh oh so so now i remember so again i don't think i'm going to college so i applied to the farthest place there is i apply to hawaii one school that's it i go i'm probably not getting in but i want to shoot my shot i want to get as far away from here as i can i don't want to get i thought it was like the situation uh the situations that i was in kept leading me to trouble it wasn't that i was seeking it out you know it couldn't possibly have been me and if i move far enough away all this stuff it evaporates you know no they don't have drug addicts in in hawaii there's no drugs there absolutely well we'll find out so i get in and you were mentioned in student debt earlier

i'm still paying that student debt 20 years later i've paid it over one and a half times but because of the interest, I still got two-thirds of the principal. I thought Biden was paying that. What happened with that? You know, he's cheap. Let's be honest. He was like, I was going to do it, but then I seen the shit.

Then he was like, I've seen the numbers on the interest, and we cannot pass that up. We're going to squeeze these people for it. I don't know if I'm going to pay. Let's be honest. And you got a big audience, so let's do a student debt strike. Nobody pay.

we have the numbers tell them that one that's it that's what you don't have to believe me but we got the numbers they might have the guns and the weapons but or the guns and the prisons the prisons but we got the numbers so anyway so i go out to school in hawaii and i start working at a radio station and that leads immediately into me getting connected with the local community which by the way is devastating to see what happens to a lot of the locals out there there was one in camp that was right on the beach and it was all people that essentially were priced out of land that generations had lived you know what i mean like right generations of their family had lived there until it kind of got gentrified around it and then once that happens you know people are coming

into bulldoze that's why with the lehina uh fires you see there's a real concern that developers are trying to swoop in and buy everything right i it all up you know what was the funniest part about that. Oprah's going on saying, hey, can you please send us some money? She has 2,000 acres on on Maui or in Hawaii somewhere. I'm like, hey, Oprah, how about you just give them a hundred and 99, or she has 2,000. So why don't you give them 1,999 acres? And I think, you know, we call it a day. Right. I was going to say, listen, she's got a private security making sure nobody skits on her land. She's got, she's got a private, what was it? They said during the fire fighter, she had a private, um, firefighters coming to protect, you know, her land.

Are you serious? Yeah. That's something that's something. That's one of the things I heard. I also heard an another guy breaking down. He went and got a copy of the, um, the filings. The, um, the, um, the filings that he and the, she and the rock filed. So they actually put money in.

They did put money in. But one of the first things that happens is they get their money back. They get a, obviously. they get a write-off because it's a it's a tax-free whatever you call it trust right so and then they also get paid for managing the so you're going to one get paid because you need the money two you're getting all the money you've put in to show that hey look we've got money in this right but you get paid back first and so they've got the whole thing set up so that they're going to get all their money back and their real contribution is starting it and doing these promos but the promos have

all backfired on her well yeah. Yeah, because especially that one after she released with the rock, I think really upset people. They were like, wait a minute, you're pulling out the other richest Hollywood guy to say, like, send us money. Oh, that's, so, so anyways, working at this radio station, there were a few different locals who were on the show, and we would, it was amazing. I'm telling you, still to this day, the best cannabis on earth is in Hawaii. There is no, the conditions, it's just like they say what, like the best Coke is in Columbia. the best coffee is wherever it is i'm telling you columbia no brazil columbia i don't know i think it might be columbia well there's india i think it depends what that's tea oh all right yeah i love tea too

that's in india i don't know it's all you know what i mean but it's it's it's like that the ripe conditions however you can grow that in hawai there is nothing better it is it is magical that's the one time where I was like, wow, this stuff might be like too. I might have to dial it back a little bit. But so through that, I get connected with a little bit of a local community where, again, I can get it's not my fault. All right. Let's just be very clear about that. At this point, it is not my fault. But I get connected. And I have an entire market at the dorms. Easiest way to make money and to be able to afford more cannabis is he start moving it. little did I know is the one thing you don't want to do is sell it to girls that guys have crushes on because when they start hanging out with you coming to dorm all the time these guys will they'll actually make a few phone calls and that's what they did I thankfully got tipped off I moved every I had a buddy who lived near the campus it was just one bus ride down bring everything to his place they basically search raid my room find nothing I got I got I forget what

So they was so livid that they didn't find anything. Because whoever this kid was that ratted me out, you know, had enough evidence. I think I might even sold to him at one point. So like it was very, it was a verified, uh, investigated. They, they, they could have had me if I didn't get tipped off by again, these girls. Um, I had it. Did you act offended the whole time they were searching like, I can't believe. I would never you, what?

Listen, I would. Oh my God. I, you guys have. the wrong room. I don't know who told you that. I would so listen, I would love to pretend like I did what I didn't do. So we had this little closet and I had this huge flag that had a cannabis leaf on it. Now, I didn't know, again, I tell people all the time, if you're not informed of your rights, you don't know where to stand your ground, right? That's the most vital thing in dealing with the police, dealing with any kind of authority. As soon as you know your rights, you know where you can

stand your ground and where they were pushing too far, where you can push a little more. I did not read the school conduct code or whatever it was to live in the dorms. So immediately when they came in and saw this huge cannabis flag, they were like, we're flagging you for that. And I got written up and whatever it was, you know, my first strike on the record. You didn't tell them, you didn't tell them like that. What? That's not, that's a firm.

They didn't. That stands from pot. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I'm so glad you said something. I am devastated. I am devastated. My mother would be ashamed if she do.

Someone gave me that. I thought that was the National Hawaiian flower, which basically it was. There's four or five guys in the dorm that have those. I've seen people with tattoos. I thought they were Hawaiian. Listen, if you drive on some of those roads like the, I forget one of these roads that goes deep into the jungle, there will be people on the side of the road. holding huge sticks of cannabis.

And I mean, just, you could just pull over and buy it. It was remarkable, I'm telling you, that's a different land. It's magical. I wish the people, if I ever hit the lottery, I'm buying Oprah's farm, and I'm giving it back to the people. So I, at this point, I'm starting to figure, like, wherever I go, there might be a little bit of trouble following me. And I came back to Boston from Hawaii.

But when I came back, this is just early 2000s and OxyCSI. starting to explode on the scene now within a year or so of me coming back one of my close friends overdosed and died and again it's horrifying for me because i watched you know leaving there wasn't much hard well i i shouldn't say much hard drug use we would deal in ecstasy too i don't know what you can say on youtube and what you can't so i think you've already said uh um you've already gotten this probably demonetized but or at least limited monetization 18 years plus but that's fine keep going all right so before i look out for me now we were dealing with i'm trying to help you man i know how tricky youtube is youtube figure it out

again all these powers that be they can't figure it out write a list tell us words we can't say we got to talk about your your your mr beast rant you got to your mr beast rant again i'll go off on him that guy's got it coming your time is ticking i got 962 subscribers I'm coming for you, buddy. So, well, so we had always dealt in ecstasy, too. I think that's also why the cops, you know, maybe kept a closer eye on us. But again, we never did this for money. It was just so when we showed up the party, I don't know why you think that means something.

Because we didn't deal in cash. That has never been a defense that has worked. Nobody's ever gone to trial and be like, yeah, yeah, your honor. Admittedly, admittedly, we had, we had. We were importing 4,000 pounds a month, but we weren't making a profit. It was not, this business was not what you think. There was no accounting, okay? It was strictly all going back into the fold so we could show up at the party and never

have to pay a dime. And that was a great way to work it out. But again, it's so weird to me that I listened to Biggie and heard those words or he said, never get high in your own supply. And I thought, no, you're wrong. You know what? I think that's the only way to get high. if it's pain for itself but when i came back oxy is just exploding and around i don't know if

it i know florida got devastated because yeah i had friends that were taking buses down there to get you know however many that they could get and come back up here it was just it's really super easy to open up a a pain management clinic in florida very easy is that why it kind of like just boomed and that became almost like the epicenter of all of this. Oh, absolutely. And people, people would come down from, you know, from Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, or they would just, they would load up, Rhode Island. I'm telling you, I, you know. Yeah, they'd load up buses and bring people down. They'd go in once a month. They'd come in. They'd get their scripts. They'd go back. They'd hit three or four. And there was no, um, there was no reporting system at the time. So you could

doctor shop. You could go to three or four different clinics and get. Yeah. you can't do that now now that no i'm telling you you cannot that's it ain't happening so so after my buddy died um i'll never forget because i was talking to my dad and i said this is well and plus you know the drug use at this point for me was way beyond you know when you're surrounded by people that are doing oxies you're not avoiding it for long you know especially when you see like wow that is a magical thing that is happening and you don't look at it as like I'm ever going to be the addict again my grandmother told me at a wedding one time she's she's passed away but she said there are families that have cancer they are families

that have you know diseases she said ours has addiction but again she told me that point blank and i was like yeah not me you know it's like no way you know like i'm and that was the dangerous thing you know i i could work construction work night time at a radio station go party till two three sober up for a little bit and do the whole thing over again. So and when you typically or, you know, with the stigma, you think of an addict as someone who is pawning stuff or doesn't have a, you know what I mean? Like just can't function within society. And that's not the truth.

You got functioning addicts everywhere. And that's, I don't want to say more dangerous, but it's more dangerous to that person because that's how you excuse it for so long. You know, they can go on your whole life. Well, and that's the thing. if something doesn't break the if you don't have these moments where you're like oh wow and that's right now is where in my life when i started having those moments when my body died that was because we just didn't when you're 20 20 21 i think i was and somebody dies like that you're like wait a minute i thought we were invincible you know like you don't see somebody that's 20 years old because he was a year younger than me

so you don't see somebody like that all of a sudden overdose and die you know and especially hit the amounts we were taking, you feel indestructible. And you just not, you, you're fooling yourself. So I spent that entire, after you passed away, I spent that entire summer again, working construction, then night times I had a job at a radio station, saved up and said, I'm getting out of here. I'm not doing it. I can't stay around here with what's going on. I felt like, you know, my, it was only amount of time before my number was pulled, whether I died or something happened where driving around with enough stuff on you, you're going to prison. That's why I say, like, I know you've dealt with people who have gotten serious charges.

I luckily, you know, never had to face that. And I got close friends who are still locked up today. In fact, one of the reasons I never changed my phone number was because my buddy said, you're the only person that hasn't changed this number since, what, 2000, 2001. He said, you're the only one I can remember when I call from prison. So just. No, listen, I love them. I say, call me all you want. I'll take the charges. That's fine. And so I leave and I go to San Diego within, I forget, three months. I was doing like this door-to-door pyramid scam sales thing. It was horrible. I knew it at the time and you just kind of feel it. We were selling, I forget if it was paintball. It's like paintball brochures. This was a racket. I don't think any of it was legit. I had a car so they would force me to be the driver.

We would go around to these industrial parks and we would sell these. They were literally pamphlets and they had a book of like coupons to pay ball shop and we'd sell them for $50,100 and we'd come back to this place and you just get more pamphlets. But for everything we made, the guy who was sponsoring you or whatever they called it, you know, was getting like 70%. So I was taking 30. He was getting 70 or no. No, no, no. He was getting something. And then I think the top guy, there was one guy above him because my sponsor would drive, you know, force me to go around basically do nothing and be like, you're going into this one. And because we went to industrial parks, we could basically, the way it was positioned is like, you want to take the company on a big outing. You know, we'll sell this to you for a hundred bucks or 50 bucks. And it's really like a $200 value. So we were trying to get these companies to buy in on essentially nothing. But the,

the allure of like, you know, some great morale building at a paintball park. But just doing that, you know, you get a grimy feeling doing that long enough. And you're like, you know, I can't do,

I can't look these secretaries in the face, these front office ladies, and try to do this pitch. So the whole time I'm trying to get a job at this radio station. And I'm talking about I would just go and show up. And I had this secondhand suit so it like didn't fit me. I don't know why I was wearing a suit either because it was rock station. Like, I could have just shown up regularly, but I really wanted this job. So I'd

like this oversized suit that didn't fit. I looked ridiculous. And I would constant, any event they had, anything where you could, you know, meet them if they were doing a broadcast outside, I just showed up. I was like, you guys are not going to not hire me. It's happening. I can't do this other stuff that I'm doing. You guys are going to hire me at some point. They had a competition and on-air competition where I'm, you know, we had to just do like radio stunts, how to eat African hissing cockroach dog food. Disgusting, but it was like Howard Stern-esque, you know, to get the job. I make it to the top three. And of course, my addiction kicks in the night before we're going for them to pick, you know, like places, one, two, three. I spend the whole night out doing drugs

and miss it. I just don't show up. So they have to pick this other guy. And the most beautiful, again, fate intervened for me. They picked this. What is this name? Levi. Something like that. They picked this guy as the winner, strictly based on like I didn't show up. In fact, my phone is blown up all morning. They call me before the show end. They were like, you know, we were going to pick you to win. We were forced to pick somebody else only because you didn't show up. You're unreliable. You know, and again, I'm like, it's not my fault. I'm telling you. It's the drugs. It's the universe. It's horrible. I had a hard time with accountability. So they picked this guy. And within a week, So I basically tell him, I'm like, listen, I'm miserable. I can't do this other job. I'm pretty sure it's a pyramid scheme. I can't prove it, but I cannot do this anymore. I'm pretty sure I'm involved in a pyramid scheme.

I'm like, yo, the stuff that is happening. And it felt like that movie boiler room, you know, because they rented this office that there was nothing in there. You went in and there was a bell on the wall that if you made enough sales, they were like, you can ring it. And I was like, what the is going on, man? I'm like, this. Can I just buy my own bell? no they made that the special thing and it was kind of cultish they're like everybody that was higher than you bought into it enough where like you were like yeah okay I guess this is it but I'm telling you with the lack of furniture I at one point I started to wonder if they were even renting the place or squatting you know because I was like this is not this just doesn't feel legit everything about it so that's why I was so like dead set on getting this radio job when I lost it it was absolutely devastating. I basically told them, like, stay in touch.

If this guy messes up, I was like, promise, you'll never have another issue. I'll be there every time. They hire me to do board opting. It's not on the show. They wanted to help me out. They hire me to do like, open it. So I'm working midnight till seven in the morning. And I'm not on the air or nothing.

You're just running. Basically, everything's not syndicated, but it's already recorded. So you just make it sure. you're sitting in the studio just making sure it sounds like it's live you know that's a great illusion of radio and within i forget it was within the first couple weeks do you remember i think his name is edwin mccain he did that i'll be i don't want to sing that song but you know that song i'll be you're something hero da da da da i think so listen it was big in like the mid 2000s but this dude was not for a rock station and this guy who they just hired called

whatever venue, uh, Edward McCain was playing at and said, hey, listen, um, you know, I'm a higher up at this rock station. I want personal tickets for the Edwin McCain show. That's a big no-no. You know, you can't just request tickets from, you know, like outside of some kind of deal being made or like a promotion. You don't just like call up and go, yeah, listen. I work at a rock station. I'm going to request, you know, this backstage. And he did it for Edward McCain out of all people. God bless this dude, but I don't know what he was thinking and they fired him because he was just taking no mind you he was not on the show for any amount of time he was basically like uh an assistant to the producer you know like a tertiary

role where he wasn't on air and this is within a month of them hiring him and as soon as they fired him for that they took me on so i get this job in radio but i'm telling you that was that was almost my demise because once you get on a morning show and you get that little bit of like you know, it's very local celebrity. I know guys that it's, especially in Boston, where it's really gone to their head, but being 21 and getting access,

they would pay us to go to strip clubs and do, you know, events there. They would pay you to go to the bar and just drink and hang out. It was lethal. And through that for an addict, listen. My heart goes out for you, too.

It was great. But at the same, looking back, listen, with the hindsight that I have now is more of an adult. I went, wow, that was like a dangerous position. And plus, the people you start to meet. So I, once I got on the air, it turns out a couple of my buddies who were from Massachusetts

had moved out to San Diego. And they were huge into the meth scene, now, which is the most dangerous. I don't know if you ever seen the movie Spun with John Liguizamo and Brittany Murphy. Last it stopped with was meth. Yeah. So they were huge into that scene. And as soon as they heard, I was on the air, they reached out. And that is a terrifying drug.

that is one of the drugs where you would think people were maybe schizophrenic or you know what I mean like had some kind of other goings on mental condition or something they're well because I mean one of my buddies so they ended up buying a goat and that was their pet terrifying when you when you're doing a bunch of meth and he's feeding the goat with a with a bottle nipple but he would boil the beer bottles to put the milk in it you think you've gone crazy You think you've gone insane that there's a goat in this guy's house and my, the other body would be like mowing the lawn at three in the morning. You know what I mean? Just like stuff where you're like maybe it's not the drugs. Maybe there's like, you know, some history, some genetics of like something else going on. But no, let me tell you, it was the drugs. And again, the most dangerous thing for me was I could do these drugs until three, four in the morning, say, I'm going to sober up for a little hour. I'm not going to drink some beers and I'm going to stay away from whatever, you know, is going up the nose.

I'm going to go into work. I need to be able to drive. You know, I need an hour to claim my mind and I would go in. And even, you know, you go to the bathroom, do a couple bumps and you'd be fine on the air. You know, you almost be, I don't want to say funnier, but you know what I mean? Whatever outlandish stuff that you had to do, you're inhibibib, inhibited. You're not, what is that word? Inhibit a bit.

Inhibit. Inhibit. So essentially, you know, that's where I look back and I go, wow, the snowball effect, destiny really had me where she wanted me. And so at this point, you know, my addiction is bad. My brother came out to see me. I didn't even go pick him up at the airport. I was outside of a strip club, you know, snorting whatever and hanging out with people who, you know,

we all needed to get clean. In fact, one of my buddies, he just died a couple years ago, too. he finally went to rehab he got out and i i think it was within a week he relapsed and died and he had four kids and to to to watch this stuff happening to these young young guys young parents you know that is the heartbreaker because there just isn't like the infrastructure for people who when they decide like hey i want to get clean if you don't have health insurance or a ton of money right good luck getting a bed good luck you know there is no like oh yes immediately let's get you in here we'd love to get you off the street and that's really where like the dehumanizing part of drug addiction comes in

and it's weird because if you think about it right if you had a dog i don't know if you have a dog if you have a dog right and you live in the cold weather and you left the dog outside all night you're going to get arrested if somebody calls on you right animal abuse you go to jail we can leave humans outside homeless to suffer through the winter and nobody bats an eye so it's the same thing with drug addiction it's like these people that really need help want help and i'm talking like personally my my brother's been homeless for over a decade now i lost touch with him about three years ago uh the last time i talked to him he said i'll never go back to prison in texas i guess Texas is one of the worst places for him to go because he was right went wrong that's where he went

wrong so I think I'm guessing he's somewhere out in the west coast I have some friends who are comedians and they said randomly they would text me and go you got a little brother right and I go yeah he goes I was doing a set out in L.A and I went outside and he came up to me and said hey if you see my brother we just tell him you know I'm all right and that's kind of how we kept in touch and it's heartbreaking because he's oh man what is he 34 now where he would be i don't know if he's alive i'll be honest i told my middle so i have a middle brother then the youngest brother and i told my middle brother i said i just can't count on him being alive right you know for so long you go through this well especially so let me get back to the san diego part so just as many drugs as i can do

most of the time it's for free uh that's what i'm doing my brother came out to visit didn't even pick them up i mean i was the worst human uh that i could possibly be at this point just no disregard for you know addiction it just totally consumed me as long as i could get to work that was like my main focus that's all i cared about getting into work so i could get out and whether it was from friday till sunday i stayed up and that's the scary thing about this drug you know you can just do whatever and time kind of blurs that's what i saying if you ever seen that movie spun it's john liguizamo brittany murphy and the way they shoot it like the cinematography of it it's almost dizzying but it's a movie about meth uh mickey rourke is the cook in it or the chef

whatever they call them right and it's a great movie because if you've ever lived in those familiar circumstances you can really relate to like the uh the pacing you know Because day, night, everything kind of blends together. You don't know when you're doing these drugs. It's just kind of a blur. You know, you could be inside for what you think is an hour and come outside and it's three in the morning. So you kind of lose track of everything and all you focus on is that. My brother leaves.

And like I said, so my dad's living down to Florida. And I was so again, a stupid arrest. Party in one night. I leave this girl's place and I get pulled over. I guess I'd blown through a couple stop signs. I don't know. And the flashing lights go on and the cops saying, can you pull over?

Because I think I blew my age. So I blew like a 2-2 or a 2-1 really high up there. I mean, it was pretty good for still being able to drive and not hurt in anybody. Thank God. And in California, they got a law. My buddy went to jail because he got into a car accident where he broke his own leg and they charged him with whatever it was. He didn't injure anyone but himself,

but he had to go to prison because there was an injury. So I thankfully didn't have that. But when the cops pulled me over, I guess I just stopped. Like, you know, it didn't pull over, just kind of stopped on the yellow lines where I was. And at that point,

there's no defense. You know what I mean? When he goes up and he goes, I see you pulled a couple of rolling stops there. And I said, yeah, well, I'm from the East Coast. You know, that's just kind of what we do. do it. Oh. And he's like, I think I'm going to need you to step out of the car. And so I do that. And at one point, I forget what he was having me do. It was the letter, the pant,

you know, like all the sobriety test. I just said, listen, bud, you and I both know, I'm going to jail tonight. Can we just, like, let's just do this. I'm excited in the back of the car. I'm like, I'm not going to be able to stand up much longer. And that's how I knew when I, when I blew that amount, uh, it's just dangerous, man. It's so stupid. so I get arrested and this is a Sunday night again I had an impeccable performance attendance at work never missed a day it didn't matter and that was I think the the hard thing for people to address with me because you almost go does he really have a problem you know like if you can make it to work is it truly a problem and it almost makes people question you know there was a couple

times where yeah my boss would sit me down and go hey what's going on but if i showed up to work what did anybody care i was still making people money it just it wasn't of that effect yet until now so it's a sunday night i get it or sat i forget a saturday sunday but i'm spending time in jail until work and at work i don't show up i don't have my you know i'm not i don't have my phone on me. I'm in a holding cage in a drunk tank, whatever it was. The prison guard or the jail guard recognized who I was from on the air. And when the whole, you know, half the morning show was, where is he? You know, is he dead? Did something happen to him? We don't know. We haven't heard from him. We've called his phone. So they really have no clue. And on the request line or on the

calling number, the jail guard calls in. He goes, I know exactly where Rob is. I'm looking at him. He's over in our hold and sell. So thankfully my work was so, you know, this, that was the other thing. Like my job kind of saved my life because I had something to look forward to. You know, I wasn't hopeless. I wasn't an attic with no job having to steal or having to sell stuff. I always had an income. I was always employed, or for the most part, you know, I was always had some kind of steady stream. So they just worked that into the morning show bit. Hey, we're sending somebody over there to get them out right now. Well, if you can imagine here. in that on a radio show they were like this is gold and that's the other dangerous thing about it

i'm hitting rock bottom and they're like we're making this a bit i had to do i had to do like the highway cleanup you know what i mean like when when you get sentenced to like not jail but you get to just show up every week yeah yeah that that's what it is and everything was a bit for the radio you know that's all they wanted to make this and i'm like guys i'm going through hell right now they were were forcing me to try so i didn't realize that like they revoke your license right away like there's no messing around they just take it but i had no idea and i still had a car so i just had to drive to work every day and my work would be the one to like send me to do stuff and mind you i didn't i didn't have that knowledge when this first played out it was nobody told you by the way you can't

drive nobody tells you that and i mean that it's not until like you meet with a lawyer and they're like how'd you get here you're like i drove and like you know you have no license, correct? But so, so I get suspended from work for a week, though. They did. They had to enforce some kind of punishment, I think, to set an example. And it must have been that week or the next week. And on that Wednesday or Thursday, so halfway through the week. And mind you, this is how like, you know, idiotic I am. I'm just going out and doing drugs and party in the whole time. I'm not thinking, you know, my mind of you. Well, I'm like, I got the week off. This is awesome. You know, like, I don't have to deal with nothing. I can just go out and party. I can

finally, you know, not have to worry about getting up at four or five to go in. But halfway through the week, I get a call for my brother. And that would, just at this time, it wasn't like we were talking a lot. Again, I told you, he came out and I just, looking back, you feel so horrible because the people that, like, love you are the most, you almost treat the, you, you can hurt the most. Right. So the fact that he called me was just weird, but I pick it up and he's like, hey dad's gone and I'm like what are you talking about he goes dad and I was like aren't you with him down in Florida what do you mean he's gone he goes he killed himself I said what are you talking about he goes we we just got home we had run out we had just got

home and the youngest brother he goes he cut him down out of the tree we tried to revive him but he's gone and that was like that that was the that's why I kept saying through my story I'm like I'm witnessing people die and I'm witnessing people die and I'm witnessing people go to jail. But again, I just didn't learn. It was never enough for me to go like, oh, my God, I got to stop. And your dad had an addiction problem or just? Yeah. Well, and again, well, so it was growing up, it was just always like parties drinking. And in Massachusetts, the culture of drinking is like, it's very European. Let's just say it like that. You know, it's like we're very European when it comes to drinking. So that was normal. But he had, uh, so he got.

rear ended in Florida and something happened with his back again this is like the trickiest thing about these 2000s because when oxy comes onto the scene they don't think twice about giving it to you in fact it was kind of promoted as like a less addictive substance i think that's what it was being pushed as you know it wasn't the truth but that's what they were kind of pivoting is like hey don't worry this one you know can't hurt you i don't think it was exact again i don't know was a control they were pitching as being it was a moderate pain killer and it was a controlled release formula they had so you take two pills a day and you know every 12 hours and it's it it slowly releases it and it you know it helps the pain and it's not you know of course but anybody taking

it would tell you like that's fucking are you serious like that's nuts well so so I know that at some point he had you know these different addiction problems but when you couple that with so he was flipping houses before flipping houses was the thing you know like a long and i'm talking about when he was growing up that's how the other part i think he made a lot of money he would buy these old ratty places live in one end of it fix up the other move to that you know what i mean and fix it and flip it now i don't know what had happened again his girlfriend at the time was just a monster she still is i call her black widow her husband before killed himself apparently again, I say that very loosely because I'd like to see the proof that she didn't have

something to do with. I don't know what I could say. But this lady did not like me being around him. At the time he had died, he had put everything in her name. So basically he was finalizing the divorce. My parents' divorce went on for a decade. I don't know, maybe even longer. They were fighting over a ton of it. Well, it just wasn't amicable. They couldn't be in the the same room together, you know, and families got involved. That was the nasty thing. You know, like, even at my father's funeral, this is why I don't talk to my family now, because my aunt said some stuff when we were lowering his casket. And I was like, what kind of human does that, you know? And I didn't think it was appropriate, but apparently my family

thinks otherwise, you know, they just, we just see eye to, or we don't see eye to eye. And that's kind of how the whole divorce was. It didn't just fracture that. And it didn't just fracture them it fractured like both sides of the family um so it got really really tricky so i think my dad was trying to just keep stuff out of his name but you got to remember he was probably flipping three four houses in florida at the time he would live in one fix all the other ones up and flip him right so i don't know if it was like a fine again you didn't you never know like i told you my dad was the nicest person and i feel like they say this about everyone chester bennington Cornell, Anthony Bourdain, all these people that have taken their own life, if you talk to any of the

family members, you go, never suspect it. Greatest guy in the world, you know, maybe there was some addiction there. Maybe there was maybe some money trouble. You know, you can't pinpoint it and you never know what I always say, because when I talk about this on the air, this one kid would be like, ah, they're cowards. You know, they're taking the easy way out. And I would always say, yeah, maybe they're cowards in the fact that they didn't want to face whatever they had coming. they just couldn't feel like there was there was no hope they couldn't face it but I also have to consider it's one of the bravest things and I know this is a twisted I've been dealing with this for 20 years now and I still can't wrap my mind around it and you don't get to talk to these you know

what I mean everyone I know that's taken their life it wasn't like they called me and we're like hey this is going to be the last conversation it's just not how it works right you'll you'll left with a lot of questions and you never you just never get answers you can have all these assumptions you can think this, think that, but you're just never going, you know, you're never going to truly know. That's why even when you're asking me, I'm like, yeah, I know there was some addiction thing. I definitely, we definitely had addiction in the family. And it was totally normalized. So like, you know, your father dealt with. It wasn't, you could tell him, oh, you're an addict. And he'd be like, nope, I built this construction company myself. I do this stuff on the side. Like, not me.

You know, and who's going to challenge that? Any addict has to come to that realization on their own. And so when he took his life, you know, I think it was many things that played a part of it, but I'll never be able to tell you which one it was. But that's really when for me, because I was so deep into my addiction at this point, you know, and being able to fund it and having connections where, you know, people want to hook you up or help you move or just whatever it was. You know, it was never an issue. and that's very scary when you got that addictive personality. So after he passed, it was basic, I didn't think, you know, like, I was like, well,

I know what my fate is. You know, like my fate is sealed. You just feel, and I forget at some point I looked up the stats, but if you have that happen in your family or with your parents, like the statistics for men jump dramatically for that to be kind of your route. So at this point, I'm kind of pulling out all the stuff. stops. This is where I got real heavy into oxies. And California, it was, I don't want to say it was as bad as Florida, but it was really easy to get a hold of. And because there was no infrastructure,

you could basically have anybody go and kind of pill shop for you. And it was dangerous. I'll never forget what started me to realize I was an addict, because that's what you have, you have to have this realization. This whole time, I'm like, nah, you know, like it's not, I'm fine. You know, I go to work, I come home, I might party a little bit, I might do whatever in the background, but look at me, I'm holding down a job. I'm successful. We were number one on the radio, you know what I mean? Like, had success, you're like, there's no way that I'm the addict.

Right. When I had the realization, my buddy would come over and basically, he would spot me, whatever. I could move it and I could pay for everything with what I was pushing it for. You know, so again, just you don't have to pay for stuff if you can sell to other people for a little bit more. It's always covering your costs. So you're on the radio, you're making decent money, but you're still selling it. When you're an addict, there's no like, hey, I have the money. Like money doesn't mean you stop. You know what I mean? Like having security of money or a house. Because at one point, after my dad passed, we had gotten kicked out of our apartment.

I was living in a car while I was on the radio. So, I mean, there are things happening where, again, you're never like, well, I just should stop doing drugs. You know, you have to come to the point where you're like, oh, this is destroying my life. This is ripping everything away from me. And it's not going to get better. And so the day that that kind of hit me where I was like, wow, like, I'm so deep into this.

He came over with maybe 500, it was close to 500 pills. And I had never seen like that. much at once it was usually like 50 or something like that where you could just move it and the bag scared me it was terrifying because what i i didn't see money you know what i mean for me it wasn't money for me it was like death i was like i'm not going to be able to hold on to that say i could well why did that why did why did that i mean you were connecting that with all of these suicides or is that everybody who i'd lost okay so this is where and i'm talking about i was so at one point my family was going to stage an intervention with me because i was i

stopped picking up the phone i was doing so much that i thought i was going to die my boss god bless him said i'm going to pay for you to get into therapy i couldn't afford it you know any kind of money i had was going to a certain addiction right and so everybody was trying to reach out but again it's really hard like i had not uh i had not messed up anything so bad where it wasn't You know, irrevocable. It wasn't redeemable. You know, like I, I just had not crossed that line yet. But watching this kid come over. And at this point, he was smoking it out of a, he had like a tinfoil little sheet with a straw and he would light the bottom and smoke it. And I just, it was like watching his soul get ripped from him every time he did it. Because you just kind of, I saw this dude fade away. You know what I mean? He was the one coming over being like, here, whatever you can move. I just need some cash. I got to pay these. other people. And that's when I was like, yo, I'm not going to be able to, like, if you give me that, I'm probably going to do it all. You know, like at some point or another, like, I got a death wish. I'm watching all these people die just right in front of me. And I'm not, like, I think that

was when it hit me when I was like, oh, this is not like circumstantial. This is not like outside forces. This is very deliberate, like the choices that I'm making are leading me here. And that was a horrifying moment because at that point you have to realize how deep you've gotten into your addiction and you and this is where I think like a lot of my friends maybe just lost hope you know and I think that's the that's what led all the people I know that have taken their life to that point that's the one thing that I can firmly say like that is an answer I'm comfortable giving when people like why what do you think happened could it be addiction money whatever I say it's hopelessness you know when you feel like well there's nothing that i can do that's going to fix this where do you go

you know what i mean and when you really think about that that's a heavy question to ponder and that's where i was you know i was at the point where i was like how do i don't even know how to start to get clean i had never witnessed that i knew kids in high school when we were getting arrested they would sometimes send people to like a rehab but it turned out to be like a 30-day thing you'd get out and you weren't you know what i mean like you weren't rehabed You had basically got a, you would basically have been Jones in for 30 days and could not wait to get out. Right. And that's really how the system is kind of broken.

When my brother finally got clean, not the one who's homeless. He's still, I don't know where he is. I don't, we don't talk. It's horrible. If you're watching this, you know what the saddest thing for me is there are some YouTubers who go on Venice Beach and like talk with the homeless and stuff? And I watch those channels to see if I can identify him. And it's horrible to do that.

But it's like, that's the. own you know what i mean like that's the only way i can kind of figure out is he still alive is he out there what is he doing do you know any of your other family members that maybe know that are in contact with him no he burned a lot of bridges right his addiction i don't want to say it was worse than mine but his addiction so um he was the one that who cut my dad down and tried to revive him he went and stayed with my mom in staten island after and uh she went to sleep and just died she died in her sleep they said it was a pulmonary embolism i think that's what long after your dad died a few years okay and again so my brother was 15 when my dad took his life so then he was like

19 you know what i mean he was just out of high school um or maybe a little bit older again like it felt like it happened back to back you know it was just like one devastating moment after another but after because I'll never forget he called me I was on the air on the radio and when I saw him call me I went you know what does he call me at this time for I'm out in California you know like he knows what time it is I'm definitely working and when he dropped that he was like I try to wake up mom she's not waking up I think she's gone and I was like what are you talking about what do you mean she's gone you know I was like bro don't mess with me he was like you got to go home and tell her brother brother so you know he had to endure all that and at such a young age how do you how do you

mentally overcome that you know and it's so sad because this kid was talented you know he was so sweet but i think for him too again hopelessness he was like right what what is my future entail you know like he's like what this is what happened to my dad this what happened to my mom i found both of them. Yeah, he probably just gave up hope. I mean, again, I've never got to talk to him about it. The last few times I saw him, he would beg and plead. He'd be like, can I just come get a meal and take a shower? I just need. And I would say, I'll do anything for you if you let me help you get into a rehab, you know, and I would take, we got, I forget, a few thousand dollars during my mom's funeral. Everybody was helping us just support because I couldn't even fly out.

That was the most embarrassing thing. So I was so deep. in my addiction i told you i didn't have money you know like all my money it wasn't like i was making money off anything it was going back into my addiction so when both of my parents died the people on my radio show bought my airline tickets so i could go back to these funerals i just i was just such a mess but that's why like i'm forever indebted to these people because it was just out of their good humanity they were like we got to get this guy back you know what i mean like they understood um so yeah so i don't know i think with my youngest brother it's just what do you what do you do when that's your story you don't have much hope and there was no health care for he had

nothing to fall back on this is really when i like argue with people i've argued with these people online they say oh you just live with your parents until you can afford to buy a house i go what about the people who don't have parents and they they would be like who doesn't have parents you know i go all right, this conversation isn't for me. You're not living in reality. Okay. And so with him, it was like, and I watched it. And I, you know, that's what I was saying.

We would take thousands of dollars that people would try to help us. And I say, I'm just going to throw, I brought him up to this one place and like Laguna Beach, look like the best rehab ever. I said, this is all my money. It was like nine grand. You know, everything that people had donated, collected for us. And I said, I'm just taking it all. and I want to invest in you as a human.

Within like two days he had left, I was like, Jesus, you know, and that's been every interaction I've had with them. And still to this day, I would honor it. If I could get him into a, you know what I mean? If I could do anything for him, I would, but it's all contingent on like him wanting to get clean. And that was most of our relationship before we kind of lost touch. He would beg and plead at one point, my neighbor, God bless her,

our downstairs neighbor at this triple decker, she goes, every morning I go outside and there's beer cans in the driveway and I was like I don't drink you know I'd be like oh shit I know exactly who that is I was like don't worry I'll figure it out and my brother was coming and sitting outside of our house just drinking in the driveway waiting to catch me at some point to be like hey can I come in take a shower can I just you know get a little bit of food and again the only way I'd let him in is if he had promised to do some kind of rehab now maybe that's foolish on me because you never you can lead a horse to water all you want they're going to drink if they don't want

to um so yeah so after my i forget where we were in the story but basically after my dad died and that kid came to me with that amount i was like this is this is where i have to try to do something i was i was really lucky because at the time too i think the addiction wasn't at its peak but there were doctors offices who started to set up with like the taking in like uh it wasn't It wasn't rehabs. It was like doctors that were trying to help get people off of voxies. And I showed up to one of them. I made the appointment. And I thought I was going to this place where like a doctor could get me on methadone or send me to a rehab. You know, like it was the first step to whatever program they could get me into. And I go in, I sit down on the doctor's

thing. And he's like, what are you here for? And I explained it. He was like, oh, that's across the street. And I'm like, you got to be kidding. I started crying in his office. I was like, you got to help me. I go, if I go back out there, I don't know if I'm going to die. I was like, I have to go and use. I'm not used, you know, like I didn't use anything this morning. I was like, I'm not, I was bawling in his office. I was like, please don't send me back out there. And he was like, no, no, no. He goes, we're like partnered with them. He goes, but you want the appointment across the street? And I was devastated because I basically had a call from that office and make an appointment with the right with the right guy who is dealing with rehab patients. And he was like,

it's a week out. And I didn't. I was like, I don't know if I'm going to die. What's going to happen. I just couldn't control anything at that point. You know, you have to, when you're getting that sick, and that's the most, like, that feels like it's ripping your soul out of your body. Because when your bones are aching, when you can't, you can't do anything unless you have that fix. There is not, you can't focus, you can't, you know, and that was the only way I could operate. I could go into work, you know what I mean? Like, always constantly have, you have that, but at some point, you know, you're going to take a little too, or at least what I witnessed, you know is like people just take a little too much or and they just never come back but i made it

that week get to that doctor's office and he was amazing he i mean he helped me for so long he made sure that you know every step i took and it was like really working with him a therapist rehab uh getting into the program a i don't know if anybody does that you're not supposed to talk about it too much but all of those things but that one i did you know what that one i get it works for some people wasn't my favorite it definitely works it's definitely a good program I just I think I couldn't stick with it because I was too hard headed and they want you to like kind to come to the realization you're an addict and still I was fighting a tooth and nail up until you know basically I stopped everything um and that was like that was a hard awakening moment

because when you actually kind of get clean you're like oh damn this is what everyone was talking about like when my grandmother was telling me we got addiction in our family or when my dad died when you know how many of my friends died i'm like oh so this is addiction you don't realize it till so much later you know or or you realize it when you're getting clean but it's not really like the like you don't realize like oh shoot i spent so much of my life as an addict and especially when you see people that are successful or maybe you know go to high school and then go to college and they get this good job and they do all these saying you're like oh wow i chased a high for 20 something years that's all I did and I fooled myself into thinking like oh I was on a

successful radio show I did all these different things no I was doing one thing the whole time everything else was tertiary you know everything else was like yeah I did that but really what was my focus on the whole time it was just the next high it was devastating you know that kind of have well I'm like man where could I be now look for I just put that energy into something else Jesus even learning the piano. I could have done anything. But YouTube is such a weird world. Can I just talk about Mr. Bees for a second?

Mr. Bees, now that I have your attention, you are screwing things up. Can I just be honest? Go and watch the latest Mr. Bees video. This guy talks about, I watch a lot of podcasts that he's on or interviews and he talks about how he's going to perfect the algorithm. We watch the metrics where children's eyes blink every half millise.

second and we're going to and he talks about like these metrics like you're like Jesus what is going on and he means it so I've been following his videos for a while I tried or I interviewed twice for like his company not with him not with him but they're really like they are looking they don't care if it's globally they're looking for the highest caliber of whatever it may be research YouTube metrics you know what I mean like these are the PhD candidates of the YouTube world and you got to respect it i'll say that mr beast i respect your game now let's get into it this guy just fall just go back 10 videos and watch it okay and do that first and then watch his latest one and you'll see the editing has become so i don't even know how to describe it it

almost feels like he should have a warning you know the warnings on certain videos where they're like this this uh flashing lights could cause a seizure i'm like you probably You need to run that before your videos because the edits are so quick, but you'll hear him talk. He says, I can't talk for longer than 10 seconds without like, you know, B-roll footage, cutting away, cutting back to me because of the YouTube metrics, because people's eyes will look away, which when you think about the technology, we got cameras on our phone. If you're watching and they can watch you and see what you're blinking at, I mean,

it's not far away. I know that sounds crazy, but let's face reality. They got the technology to see when you. look away when you scroll up from a video it's all there it's just a matter of time that they can make it a metric this guy controls youtube right now right tell me who's bigger than mr beast all way nobody right puty pie i think was like the other contender but he's he's got like a kid or something now god bless him he's like still kind of in the game he's like i'm a dad what that mean he's found god or something like no no he's just he literally had a kid so it's

it's like I know when you have a kid you're not like oh I'm going to make a video you know you're like everything is falling into place this comes first you know whatever I do is kind of just for fun so he's not competing not my family that wasn't how my dad was running things you're like listen YouTube is the first born here and all you will come second but but so mr. Bees but you'll hear him he wants to chase down PewDie Pies he probably surpassed him. I don't know. I haven't paid attention to this while. I just know the last video I watched it was like I'm I might have a seizure watching these edits and it pissed me off because this is a guy who is there's nobody bigger in the world. YouTube adores him. He just made

a video where he just crushed a Lamborghini, right? That was it. It was like a Lamborghini versus steel press or I forget and I'm like Jesus, this is what the content is now. Okay. This is your competitor, Matt. He's crushing Lamborghinis. I'm like, this is what he's doing. Think about the things he could do. Think about all the... I don't feel like he's a competitor.

He is, I'm telling you. Like, I don't feel like Mr. B stays up at night and says, what's Cox doing? He's watching. What do you do? What do you do? Jesus. Get me on the phone with Kobe. He interviewed a prostitute.

What will we do? Get me a Lamborghini. somebody get me a Lamborghini out here we better be careful he might start crushing prostitutes and presses just for the views that kind would do anything i'm telling you he scares me okay once you start knowing he's manipulating the the the attention span of children there is no line he won't cross okay what do you mean nine-year-olds are looking away cut don't what do you make don't you know we're crushing i paid 2.6 million for that car and i'm crushing that thing, they're going to stare

at it. So during this conversation, I had mentioned to you that I saw like a something, like a short or something where they were talking about Mr. Beast or it was Mr. Beast and somebody said to him, so how could YouTube improve? Like, are there anything in any improvements you'd like to see in the algorithm or in YouTube?

And he goes, no. He goes, they're doing it perfect. He had no complaints. He was like, no. bro out of i mean there's a litany of you know what i mean yeah it was like well apparently he must have something like when you get to a certain level there is someone you can call like they give you a personal person so he's got an office there because like to me you know my videos get demonetized or they get you know like 18 years or older and by the way that's huge like if you were going to make if you were going to make a hundred dollars on a video and they said hey it's 18 years and older now like

it's limited, you just drop to about 30 bucks. They're cutting the feed. Well, we're not cutting the feed, but they're, they're restricting who's going to see it, you know, and that's the whole thing. You want those impressions. So as soon as they do that, as soon as they restrict the audience, and there's YouTubers who go into this in depth,

you know, like what that does to certain creators when they do what they're doing to you. But so think about that, right? You've been in the YouTube game for how long now? Two and a half year, a little over two and a half years. And I'm guessing we could do a whole show on like things that you think critiques. Not not to take away from what YouTube is doing. This is a great medium.

But I'm sure just in your short time, Mr. Bees is what? 10 years, 12 years, right? At least I don't know. I'm guessing at least a decade. You know, he's not overnight. Oh, yeah, yeah, well over that. Yeah. So for that long and he's like nothing, it's perfect.

I mean, is that a little bit of ask-stery? If I'd had his experience, I would be saying it's perfect. Give me a break. See, and that's what's wrong with the world today. I'm going to be the old man yelling at the cloud. It doesn't matter because he's not immune to hearing. You know what I mean? For a guy who studies YouTube, who this is his craft.

He's not, you know, learning to play the guitar in his free time. This guy is all about the metric and what YouTube's doing. Like you said, I bet he has more than a handler. he's got, you know, a team from YouTube probably that's like, you know, most of us have to upload and then we like, you know, delay the publish so we could go through restrictions. He's probably got like a live team that watches it from YouTube. Like he's got a crew in the room, a team of YouTubers who are like, all right? No, no, no, no, it's all good.

No restrictions. I mean, that's where he's at, right? And for him to say that, to just ignore. And this is really what my issue with this. with him it's he's at the pinnacle there is nobody bigger he has so much power and that's what he does with it think about tomorrow if he just wanted to do a collective right a union of some of the biggest YouTubers and again I'm not up to date with I know like there's the market pliers there's the like the H3 podcast there's um the Russell brands and the Joe Rogan I don't know

Rogan specifically he's got that Spotify deal but all the big people that are on YouTube and he collectively said hey god i'm sure anybody that's getting a phone call from mr beast is taking it right yeah you're not ignoring that call so he has the access he has the ability he has most of the youtube power and this guy isn't kind of fishing for like some kind of constructive criticism just to help smaller creators and that's really what like bugs me because If you hear his, I think it's Sam and Amir, they did this whole like life story pot, how you got into YouTube. And he talked about having a group of creators where they would bounce things off of each other.

Right. He can be that guy for so many people right now. Not just the big creators, but he could basically turn the platform into some kind of instructional. Right now you're uploading and you don't know if it was a word that got you demonetized or a whole segment. And for an editor, that's, you know, it could be a week. week long journey to try to figure out where you went wrong.

Yeah, I, my, so if I had, like, if I had a complaint, it would be like, look, if you, if YouTube said, hey, listen, we're going to age restrict this, you know, or we're going to, you know, whatever, we're going to demonetize it. Like, if they would just tell me why, like, hey, it was this one section where you guys talked about, you know, the manufacturing of whatever it was. and it just honestly was a little bit too much and we felt like it was almost instructive and that if you could remove that one part i'll cut it i'll cut it like just tell me like this one section tell me even if it's just in this general area here this whole two and a half minute

part felt funny we're not sure but this just narrow it down just and i'll go in and say you know what you know what i like to say about a lot of these companies a lot of of these companies it's just a small startup one day matt they'll have the money and the resources to be able to give you that kind of and this is coming from a company who can tell you metrics of like when people look away at what how many seconds into a video and mr bese talks about this he's like three seconds in if you don't have 70 percent you've lost you know what i mean this is what they do how can they not tell you at this moment of your video you got flagged They can. They choose not to.

And that's my biggest gripe with Mr. Beast. It's like if he just wanted to help the people, everybody on this platform, which, by the way, in return, wouldn't it make YouTube much better? If everybody knew the specifics of where their video went wrong, I don't think most people are being like, no, I'm going to fight to keep that in. They would fight to be on the platform. Even if you read, you know, they always refer to you to like, oh, we're referring you to the, even if you read all of it, it's so vague. I did. I can not. Right.

No, I can speak specifically. They pulled down one of my videos and said, we're going to give you a warning on this. And they sent me a community guideline violation. I read it. And it just listed like things that you could do on you. And I'm like, where in my video does any of this apply? So I had to go to Twitter to say like, guys, I'm fighting this. This is so vague and abstract.

Technically, it could be the whole video or technically it could be none of the video. like what do you like you remove my video what do I correct and right well I I think it's like a time to response where they like go away for a little bit and then it's just an automatic like oh here's your response sorry you lost and they sent me the same thing and I was like that was my problem what you sent me was this community guideline violation a few paragraphs that did not explain anything in my video which I thought that's why I'm fighting it and then your response was to send me the same thing right like Listen, I've got you got a two and a half hour interview with somebody like you got to tell me specifically what it was. I mean, I can't, I don't know what it was. We talked about all kinds of. Or the other problem is this is the second, if I had a second thing. Second thing is it will be, my video will be uploaded. It will say fully monetized. Three days later, we post it. It's up for two or three days. And then suddenly, boom, limited monetization. It just changes. And you go, what happened? You ask for a manual review.

They come back and they go, we've reviewed it. And after having an in-person, person, review it. Now, I have a hard time believing that they had a real person watch a two-and-a-half-hour video. But let's assume that, I'm assuming that at the very least, the algorithm said, hey, here's the one part we have an issue with is this four-minute section. Yeah. They give me the four-minute section.

Tell me what it is before you allow me to post it. Because if I take it down now and close it so much, my people will fucking lose it on me. Well, but not only that, but technical. Technically, when that happens, you're, it's like restarting the video and you've lost that, whatever that first audience was. Oh, you just lost 10,000 views or 8,000 views or whatever it is. And those are the initial impressions with yours, if you know anything about YouTube, that's what boosts it. So that's what's going to send it flying if you get a, you know, so for you to remove that, you just basically killed your own video. So that's like, just real quick, because that's what is. So just hearing this. And Mr. Bees is not immune to hearing this stuff.

buddy if you're listening look out for the little like this is the whole thing right at some point i mean what is you got 200 million a billion subscribers bro when do you turn around and go like here's what i've learned youtube you know you need to give us because if he put his foot down and he collaborated with a few different people and i mean this is like the hot labor summer summer of the strike and he was like yo i'm withdrawing and me and these creators are going to stop you know on your platform they would listen i don't know if anything was get done, but just to be able to bring something like you're talking about, these clarification things. It's not big. It's not like YouTube doesn't have the resource. You know, like, this is

very doable. And it's infuriating that he's just like, I'm going to edit quicker. You know, like, we're going to smash a Ferrari. Everything's perfect. And you're like, bro, you know what paying attention, you know? Yeah, it's perfect for you. Like, well, you know, look, here, this is probably the wrong thing to say but you know i've definitely noticed that there are two kinds of you know in my my with my vast experience and being a con man and being out of prison and having a keen understanding of human nature i have come to the conclusion that there are two kinds of people in the world there are those that climb the ladder of success and invite everybody else to follow them and those that climb the ladder of success and kick it out from underneath them so no one can follow

them. And the problem is, is that amongst those people, the thought is this. Like, if there is, if you're getting a piece of the pie, you're taking from my potential pieces of the pie. That's what those people that kick the ladder out think, they think, I don't want you have any pie because I may need that pie. That's my pie. Yeah. There's less pie for me. But the truth is, As massive as YouTube is, as massive of an audience as they have, and as huge of a population and as quickly growing as the internet and the collectiveness of just humanity on this planet is, there is enough pie for everyone.

100%. Well, to speak to that point, if you just look at YouTube 20 years ago, right, in its infancy, I'm sure there were, well, there were people that had that vision. where you're like, yo, we can all make it. And I'm sure there were people like, no, only a few of us. And if you look at it today, there are so many people making career, you know what I mean? YouTube never thought they'd be this big. No, absolutely.

20 years ago, they were like, when they were like that weird looking website and it was like a couple people's home videos, they were like, oh, this is fun, you know, they were like, we're competing with America's home videos. This is great. And now, I could just make enough money to pay my bills. That's it. Yeah, I think you should tell you a story for real. Like, you're not, well, previous to getting on YouTube is so fascinating, but your growth through YouTube, people die to hear that because you might, you know, well, one, like I said, I mean, it's growing, but it's very much,

although it's paying all my bills, it's still very much a grind. Oh, 100%. And, you know, and I get like when I first started, I thought, you know, You know, I still think everybody should be doing this, but I'm coming to the conclusion that not everybody can do it. They just, people are super self-conscious and, and they're worried about what people think, you know, they're, it's, it's kind of difficult. It is kind of difficult, but I do feel like everybody should be doing. But you even went through that. I definitely did. And you know what, funny enough, this is what Mr. Buse talks about. I don't know if it's true, how true it is,

but he says, most people will quit on themselves. So they'll do it for whatever, two years, three years. And then they go, it's not working. And they don't know if like year four is where, you know, they find the niche. Everything clicks and it explodes. Yeah. He says that was like the secret to his success. He was like, I didn't care if it was only 500 people every year, every two years.

He said, I wasn't going to stop. This is what I was going to do. Right. So there's only, you know what I mean? It's like it's a weird thing because as someone who's been doing, YouTube for a few years. You go, is that true? You know, am I, am I starting to kick my or, or quit before like I hit my, you know, the peak? So I think everyone goes through that. But like you're saying, you've been grinding it out. And you can attest to that. And that's what, that's

what I'm saying. That's what people need to hear. They don't need to look at your subscribe account and go, oh, he's made it. You need to be like, yo, this is a fight every day to keep there it. And I tell everybody what I do. Like, I know guys that are like, well, I don't, I don't have many subscribers it's not growing i'm not getting any views i'm like they're like i got like 14 views on my last video and i'm i'm like bro you do you tell everybody that you have a video they're like what do you don't know like 30 people that you could send that video to and they don't like well they don't send them to anybody no i know they post it don't even send to their wife it's like i would fucking drown my friends in this video and say and then i call them all and say did you send this to

four fucking people you're dead to me you're dead to me like i bro i would be and everybody i started yeah and then i would celebrate bro i would get two subscribers i'd be like a win for the month you know i would be so excited just over the littlest win you want to hear something funny the other day i was looking at my subscribers like well like actually had checked it and i noticed that it was just over like 150 252 000 right like it was like 152 and like nine and then like 20 minutes later I happened to open up the thing and I looked and I noticed

and it was 151 and like set I lost like 250 fuck it because every once in a while it updates yeah yeah and removes people suddenly and it dropped like 200 and I mean my heart you're like I don't know if I'm cut out for this

I think I'm thrown in the towel guys I was like but listen like it was funny because like within within a day it had gone up like 350 or 400 and I was like and I remember you know I told my wife and she's like it'll be all right you know it does this I'm like still it yeah but that's the other weird thing about YouTube it does that why like they not figured this out yet I've heard well I've heard some weird again we can talk about this a different time but I've heard some conspiracy theories on that you know the subscriber count being such a weird fluctuation and especially because with me, so I'm at a very small number. It's finite. I know if someone goes, hey, I'm going to subscribe. I see that immediately. And it was been, it's been weird because like where I live, I'm real close to Salem. So I would go out and film videos around there and people would stop and be like, what are you doing? And I would go on. I would tell them, I would get on there. They would give me their phone. I would go, okay, let's go subscribe. And after a day,

getting like 10, 15 subscribers, I go home and I'd lost like 13. And I'd be like, how, you know what mean like none of this makes sense i i knew my numbers there was you know what you do take your um your youtube um your youtube link get a QR code put it on your fucking thing and say please join my and just be an asshole go through a drive-thru hand them fucking two cards yo bro i got a true crime channel whatever the channel is i got a session on channel please subscribe that just be obnoxious yeah yeah no i love the QR code because if you make it so simple for people it's hard yeah you have do because with 99% of those people are going to you don't know what guy's going to do it and trigger that thing that makes YouTube go start jamming this fucking channel out just start doing it

pumping it out then don't know what it is no no that's like the whole camp it's like it's like gambling you know you just don't know when that hit is going to come well the nice thing is too I was going to say I mean we can go bro like I like doing this so to me it's it's job in the world right the fact that it's actually paying my bills every month like it's the moment it did by the way I went from we were posting three videos a week the moment it did we started going four and everything ramped up like I was like okay I'm gonna stop doing this stop doing it I don't need to do these things for money anymore now I'm just doing this that's awesome you know you got I want to come back on to interview you about that story well what should do is we should get

you me we just probably get two or three guys who all have YouTube channels at different do like a month once a month come on and just do and then post that same video in all of our channels yeah that is just talking about everything from money to what's working what's not getting shit taken down well and can we please start a rolling list of like what youtube needs to fix and then all petition mr beast every short i make you ain't gonna hear the end of it from me pal when we were discussing suicide earlier uh usually the biggest thing i hear is people say it's a coward's way out, right? You've probably heard that.

It's a, I think it's an easy way to dismiss this subject. And I've said that it's also brave, but I have to really be careful saying that. I just feel a responsibility, especially as someone who's lived with the tragic consequences, the destruction. I mean, this completely tore apart my family. Like I've said, my brother has been homeless for a decade now. We're going on it very close to a decade. So I just feel this ultimate responsibility to clarify.

I don't mean brave and like it's a courageous, heroic act. Let's be very clear on that. And I think everyone can relate. Like, you know, olden times, there were bravery acts where they panned up. And then there were brave acts that were maybe foolish or they were these acts that took bravery, but they were a permanent answer to a temporary or a permanent answer to a temporary problem. And it's really hard. I mean, I've lived with this for 20 years, right?

Still not got to wrap my brain around it. And that's kind of the biggest mind F when this happens. And it wasn't just my father. Many of my friends have chosen the same route. But in all of my time dealing with grief, the anger, whatever the stages of grief, the stages of grief, I think that's what it's called, when you go through them, there's been only one person that I felt truly accurately described what they, you know, what somebody in this mind state is going through. And let's remember, when people dismiss it as cowardly, they're, they're using like their rational judgment. Anybody. that I've known that has been in this scenario or fought off depression, you're coming from an irrational state of mind, right? You're not thinking clearly.

You've been battling thoughts. It's been like a mental war. So the one person that I've found, and I just want to read a quote, I don't know how many people have read a quote on this channel, but it's the only way to truly, give some good context when I say brave. Because again, it's not brave in the way people are thinking. A lot of people misconstrue that when I say it.

So I feel this ultimate responsibility. And the person who gave this quote, I don't know if this would be ironic, but they did the same thing in 2008. They took their own life. It's the author David Foster Wallace. In the 90s, people were saying like he was the voice of a generation. He wrote the 1,000 page, 3 pound. Everybody, when they talk about his book, Infinite Jest,

they always mention how heavy the book is. It's like 3 pound, 3 ounces. So that gives some literal weight to how much he wrote and what this book was. And I believe this is a quote from the book again. I'm not sure. I haven't finished it. It's still sitting on my bookshelf. So David Foster Wallace says the so-called psychotically depressed person

who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of, quote, hopelessness or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debts do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trap person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. They're tantal. The terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window, just checking out the view. I.e., the fear of falling remains a constant.

The variable here is the other terror. The flames fires. When the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of the two terrors. It's not desiring the fall. It's terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk looking up and yelling, don't or hang on, can understand the jump. Not really.

You'd have to personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling. And that was David Foster Wallace. And that's what I mean. It's so difficult to really explain or like take it from my head and put it out there. I feel like he does the best way of doing that when I say like it's brave. again brave in like the worst kind of bravery like a stupid foolish that's what I was saying like in war there are definitely people who do brave things that maybe save people and then there's people who do brave things that are just foolish and you go ah you know yes it was brave but it was so

dumb so that's what I mean when I say brave it is nothing that is honorable courageous any of those synonyms that go along with it it's just this act that you go wow Wow, it's stunningly, shockingly, something unimaginable. And again, it's nothing, it's such a permanent answer to life's temporary solutions. But really, and I mean, I fought this off. I'm not sure, like before you went to prison, you probably had a bout of depression. Again, I'm not sure. Everyone is different.

Yeah, yeah, there was a moment. There was a moment. This may not be the highlight of my life. And even those first few days that turn into weeks, that turn into months, that turn in for you years, right? Yeah. And to keep that, I always say hope is like the most dangerous thing in the world. Because when you have it, life seems like anything. Yeah, right?

But when you lose it or when you're struggling to hold onto it, life becomes so dangerous. Every day is a battle. So you got to remember that. And I'm sure there's people out there fight. I mean, look at society right now, you know, and this isn't like suicide rates have dropped. In fact, I believe they keep going up, whether they're just ticking up, but just that fact, you really have to consider. And I just feel a weight on me at all times when I talk about this.

And unfortunately, I have to talk about it more than I'd like because it has always affected my life. In fact, just the other day, it was, you know, all these anniversaries come up. And I try to not ignore them, but I don't like to acknowledge them like I have to. Again, part of the grief, grief is a weird thing. But when you know people are out there struggling, you really want to address it in a delicate way. This isn't, you know, our society makes people want to man up or, you know, you just got to tough through it. But unless you've really been in that building where you're, you're. feeling the heat of the fire.

And this isn't like a small thing. You know, I know for my dad, he was feeling the heat for a long time. But unfortunately, he grew up in a generation where you just, you know, you kind of kept quiet. They rub some dirt in it. Right?

That's it. Rub some dirt in, you'll be fine. And you're not. I mean, look at people who come back from war. My brother-in-law is special forces. And there are things that you have to address. You know, you cannot rub dirt in these wounds and expect them to heal.

It's just a false mindset and it's really a cultural norm that we need to shatter because once we do that, then I think some progress can happen. We can save some lives. We can get people to know that, like I always say,

it's okay to not be okay. So I really just always feel compelled because it's shocking sometimes even when I was on the radio. This kid, I don't think he understood my family history and all that I deal with. with friends. And he dismissed, you know, anyone who had addiction as a junkie and they weren't

worth the time of day. You know, they didn't belong in society. Even people would call in and say, why would I want to take advice from a junkie? And it's really just bringing the humanity out of that situation. When I think after the Oxycontin epidemic, we saw that it wasn't just certain people. There weren't just certain sex of society who this happened to because of four choices or whatever. Like this drug addiction, let's look at coffee addiction. It could affect anybody. You know, I work at Starbucks, man. You would not be shocked to see the same people in there every day once you understand like,

you know, they're addicted. This caffeine is something that they can't control anymore. They hear seven days a week or in the same thing. So with drug addiction, it's nothing that people are choosing. Well, maybe some people are choosing. But a lot of the people I've encountered that personally, have been affected or that I've personally had the unfortunate experience to lose to, they weren't choosing to go out like this.

You know, they lost hope. They were in that burning building and they jumped. And it's unfortunate, but, you know, I think addressing it differently, and when I call it brave, you know, it's brave in the most hideous way you could be brave. It's brave in the most cowardly way you could be brave. And here I'm talking about my dad, remember, these are all, you know, this isn't some abstract thing. And that's where I really find a lot of the people who deal with it in this abstract like, oh, you know, they were a coward. And it's so easy to say that.

But when it's personally affected you, like it has me, and I say, you're right. It's the most brave thing a coward can do. And it absolutely, like dropping a stone in a lake, the ripple effects go on, you know, until that shoreline. so I don't know man it's just it's such a hard topic to tackle but I think addressing it head on you know and especially if people are dealing with this or they know someone dealing with it don't shy around it that's my biggest regret you know what I mean like the the thing I always wonder is like what if I had asked what if I had you know brought if if I knew that there was difficult circumstances and I didn't know the extent but what if I just straightforward just

said are you doing okay you know like nothing stupid and again there was there was mind altering substances involved so it's it's really hard when somebody is in that state uh for prolonged periods of time to really get you know a genuine answer because maybe they think oh it's just because of that you know a substance or i'm really fine and it takes some work on your own behalf you know, even I can speak over the couple of decades since this has happened. I've fought that battle daily. You know, I've felt the flames of the burning fire and wondered like, well, is this just destiny for me? Is this my genetics? Is, you know, you wonder all those things. But addressing it head on and especially whether you're feeling like that or you're pretty sure

you know someone who's feeling like that, not beating around the bush, you know, getting right to it. If you love them and you care for them and you feel like you can address this with them doing it um but again i don't think i think i could talk for hours on this and we'll never figure it out like i say it's an irrational action there is no rationale behind it it may seem like oh it's solving problems but when you consider in the wake the problems that it causes it's not you know it doesn't solve anything and i mean life is just a bunch of stories you know this i'm talking to a guy who went to prison for how long 13 years 13 roughly and look at where you are now you know your storm happened to be for 13 years

you sat underneath that storm for 13 years and now my man has got a lot of subscribers make sure you subscribe like hit the little bell notification on this because he's new good work um you know i was going to say so i used to tell the story when guys would say you know man bro how did you you know how do you how did you get through all that time you know so then there's multiple different stories i tell about you know different times that things happened um and but you know and of course we always in my my first thought is you know hope you know i always say and i say that you know i'm like oh it's hope hope hope gets you there you always think well this motion's gonna help this this'll knock my sentence down this'll do this you know i'll if at some point they'll move me to a camp

and I'll walk away, you know, because when you get to be, when you get, when you have 10 years left to do, they'll, and your points are low enough, they'll send you to a camp. You typically just walk away. So I would think about that, you know, little things like, like that. And then there was, and this, this used to happen where it was like, I would wake up every morning, almost, not every morning probably almost every morning i would wake up and i would go like i you know you wake up and you're like oh my god i'm still here like oh my and this went on forever i was just feel like like like and i would sit there and i would think like you know how much dental floss do i have to buy to like weave a rope and where would i do it and if you go in the stalls at night

if you go in like right after let's say two o'clock count or something they don't count for couple hours like there's almost nobody in there so if you were to go in there and there was this bar over the um over the handicapped stall that would definitely hold you right and i'm i'm so short easily easily i'm not touching the ground and you know once you jumped up like there's no way to get yourself out of that situation so and i would sit there and think fine and then you have to sit there and you'd be choking to death and you know because it's not going to break your neck you know you're gonna and i'd be like okay well if you did the loop and i would sit there and i would think and then I would of course I know it's irrational and I'm like no no bro just just stop

think about that's not rational and then I would think where um you know I think just stop stop bro get up get up and get some coffee if you get some coffee you like coffee get some coffee that'll make you feel better get some coffee so I get up I push will myself out of bed go get some coffee and I think you know what just good you got to go to the library you told Pete you'd meet them at the library. So then you drink some coffee. And I think, okay, just, just get through, just get to Pete. Say, you like Pete. You like talking to Pete. Get to Pete. And then I go and I talk, go, the move would happen. And I go to the library and I'd meet Pete. And then I'd be thinking, the whole time I'm depressed and I just don't want to do this anymore. I'm sick of this.

And I'm never getting out of here. And I'm going to die here. And it's horrible. And then I'd say, okay, you know, it's not that bad. It's not that bad of a place. You'll be okay. You can get through this. And then by, by around noon, you. You eat. No, they're having chicken today. Fried chicken. Nobody can screw up fried chicken. It's good. Okay. So one of the better meals and you eat the meal and you go okay this is not so bad it's not so bad here and then by two o'clock it's like you know there's some good guys here like i i like john and i like i like you know i like you know donovan's funny and pete's funny and frank's funny you know let me go talk to those guys you talk to those guys and you know like i got to finish this story you got

meet this guy at five o'clock and then by six o'clock it's like this is a good place you know like this is not a bad place like my chemicals in my brain throughout the day would change and And then so by five or six o'clock, I'm thinking, this is all right. This is not a bad place. Like, if you had to spend the rest of your life here, this isn't the worst. You know, you could be, it could be worse. You could be, you could be in the 1850s in, 1850s in New Orleans being, you know, and be a slave and being sold as a slave. Or you could be picking cotton.

You could be on a plantation. You could be, you could be a Jew in the, in the 1940s in Germany. You could, you know what I'm saying? You start telling yourself. You could be, you know, all these how horrific things. things could be. And this is not a bad place. Even if you were locked up, it's not bad. And then by seven or eight o'clock that night, I was like, I'm getting out of here. I'm going to, this is going to be okay. I'm going to win this motion. This is going to happen. This is going to happen.

I'm going to get out of here. This is not that big of a deal. And listen, by the time I went to bed, it was you're going to get some books published. You're going to get out of prison. You're going to start your life over. You're going to look back. This is going to be one of the best parts of your life this is an amazing place this is you're going to turn this into something and then i'd go to bed you know i'd fall asleep and then next morning i'd wake up and i'd think you know how much dental floss do i have to buy and it would it would start completely over and i remember telling that story on a podcast one time and this guy goes bro like how long did that go on and you know when did that stop and i and i told him i said i'll let you know because i mean even to this day because when i got

When I went to prison, I wish to take Paxil. You know what Paxil is? No. It's for anti-as an anti-anxiety drug for like social, you know, it's real bad, you know, social anxiety. Like I didn't like being around people. So you could imagine me going to prison and they pull me off it. And then they tried to give me wellbutrin and then they tried to give me Zoloft. And then they, you know, it's like basically what happened is the insurance carrier, because they have like HMOs, right?

The carrier just stopped giving, telling them, them, hey, we're not paying for Paxil. We're going to. Here's other brands that do the same thing that are cheaper. Cheaper. But they don't do the same thing because, well, Boucheran certainly doesn't do what Paxel did. Like, I was on Paxel for 10 years. I felt great. Nothing bothered me.

You set my house on fire. You could, you know, everything. I was like, it's going to be all right. That's not a big deal. I'm going through this. Right. So, yeah, I'm okay. It's all right.

I got money. We'll fix this. No problem. You know. Um, but yeah, it's so, but when I got to prison, they took me off Paxel. Like after a couple of years, they said, look, you know, we changed this and we're taking you off and we're going to move you to Well, Butron. Well, after about two, three weeks, I mean, I couldn't even hear what people were talking to me. They couldn't, I couldn't hear what they were saying even. I was like, what? Huh? Like, I was so in and how.

Then they said, oh, Zoloff, we'll put you on Zoloff. Put him on Zola for a couple weeks. And I said, no, I'm done. I, you got to get me off. I, I can't take this anymore. I'll just go cold turkey. So I just stopped. And that's when, in the. morning that whole thing started happening. Yeah. And, you know, I explained that to the doctor. And he was like, well, I mean, I could put you back on Zoloff. I was like, I'm not doing that. I was like, it's Paxil or I'll just deal with it. He's like, well, you're not getting Baxil. So wait, so you didn't get it again? No, I know for for about 10 years. That's was my, my daily routine. I would wake up and just feel absolutely suicidal. And by, but by that night, bro, I was getting out. This was not a big deal. This was, I was good.

things are good this is a good place these are some good guys i got some good friends i'm going to get out of here at some point i'm going to start my life over again i got plenty of life left in me i got so that is so fascinating because well number one well butron like i took that they said that was a smoking cessation drug they used to have commercials no joke like it would stop smoking for you but it was funny because if you listen at the end of the commercials it was like make I don't thought they're in a Oh yeah There's suicide

And it was like this real long thing So when the doctor was like Oh here's how you stop smoking Just be careful you know Because it might send you like to life ending Mind thoughts And I was like You know like that ain't happening

No you have to understand that That the Bureau of Prisons Like first of all You don't get the top of your field And end up working for the Bureau of Prisons Or the federal government for that matter So the doctors that are there, like they barely speak English, most of them aren't doctors. They would have one doctor for the entire complex, and he doesn't work there.

It's some local doctor that works in town that signs off saying he's the main doctor, and they have all. It's all P.A's. So you have P.A. So you would walk in there, and they'd say, okay, hold on. All right, Mr. Cox, we'll, we'll. what are your symptoms and you'd say oh i feel this and my stomach hurts and they would click a button and they do it all in the computer they just click okay stomach uh stomach pain where okay lower here and they'd be clicking pictures and what's this and what and it would diagnose you on the computer

and then they say boom this is what the problem is a lot of times guys would go in and say look i have a hernia i know guys that i knew one guy that said i had a hernia he and he said i have a hernia like this is killing me i was doing what's called the wheel you know what the wheel is when you work out there's like a wheel where you it's kind of like a reverse sit up right yeah yeah yeah yeah so he was doing it he said look i i pulled something i'm in real pain i pulled something and they were like okay um hold on and he told him look i know exactly i have a hernia because there's another guy that has a hernia and i have the same sensation and i was doing the wheel and right after i did the wheel this is how i felt and it's it's killing me right here and it's

the same thing so it's a hernia and he even knew the name of the hernia So the doctors, at first, so they, they listened to him and they said, no, no, it's, you need to change your diet. So they gave him a list of foods that he could no longer eat. And he looked at the list and he said, this won't be hard for me, Doc, because I've never eaten any of these foods. Yeah, they're like, you know, we're in prison, right? Right. He's like, I don't like hot sauce. I don't eat the hot sauce.

I don't do this. I don't eat this. I don't. He was like, what do you? Bro, I just told you, I have a hernia. I'm telling you. I have a, what's called it. It's like a inguinal herny or something.

something. He's like, they're like, right? What? Like the hernia is you have to have surgery. There isn't like a medication. Right. Right. And they don't want to do the surgery. So they told me it was this. He went, this went on for 18 months. It was so bad. His nickname was slow motion because he walked around with his hand pushing against his stomach and he would walk around like real slowly. And they called him slow motion. So at some point, his mother complained so much to the governor, finally got to the governor's office they said bring him in for a wasn't like a cat skin whatever they do in your upper GI lower GI whatever they did that they came back he knew the doctor he memorized the doctor's name when he was in there like like dr. Gupta or whatever

and he's like oh okay okay and he told him what his symptoms were and he said sounds like you haven't heard you and he's like I think I do so he did the whole whole thing he said I'll let you know he said that the prison he said I'll have you you back here in two weeks for your for your results well of course he knew being a prisoner they're not bringing me back here like that's not what the doctors always think this is the way it works you're one of my patients i'll tell them to bring you back here and they just blow the doctors off so they brought him to a hospital did this stuff but he remembered the doctor's name so he went two three weeks later they brought him down to medical he said hey i'm supposed to go to see the doctor

they said oh no no we got your results uh you have a um what do you call it in your stomach when you have you have an ulcer you have you have an ulcer in your stomach you need to I told you you need to stop eating these foods he said I don't eat those foods it's a hernia he said no no he goes okay well can I see the results and he said oh you don't need to see the results I have and he had it typed out on the screen this is what the doctor said it is keep in mind this is what he said so he goes to his mother his mother calls the doctor at the hospital the doctor at the hospital sent her a form for him to sign off on they faxed the form to the doctor. The doctor gets the form. The doctor sent the mother, sent the mother the

results. Now, he had the results from the doctor at the prison, right? The doctor, it's actually a PA. Yeah. His mother sent the results from what the doctor at the hospital said and what the PA said. PA said, you have an ulcer, put it in writing. This is what the doctor's result, the results were, but the actual results were, you have an inguinal hernia. He actually had two. And he needed surgery. Oh. So she sent that to... How old was this going on for?

Oh, 18 months. So he then sent... He then sent that to the... They sent that to the governor. Governor made a couple phone calls. Next thing you know, he's scheduled for surgery. So he gets surgery. So I knew another guy who actually, one time, had been in a fight and actually tore

like his eye socket. yeah and so he went no big deal that that happens and it can be months and months before something happened so one day he wakes up and his eye is literally shifted sideways like in the middle of the night it just broke off right like it had always been broke but it was still there so it broke it's sideways he wakes up he's flipping out he goes to the hospital they waited a week to 10 days to bring him to the hospital he's like look at my eye i have to go to the hospital they're telling of it's something else completely. What is it? Some type of paralysis with your face. Oh, when you have a stroke? No, no, it's not stroke. It's something like you can get this paralysis and

they said it goes away. Well, it didn't go away. So when they finally bring him here, a sister throws such a fit. They finally bring him to the hospital. The doctor says, oh yeah, you, I can see you broke your whatever off. If they brought you here in a couple of days, you'd have been fine. But now I can't save the eye. no come on so what happens do they remove it what in that scenario that eye out he's got a fake eye to this day so what of course he turns around and he you know that you can't sue the federal government especially if you're an inmate you have to go through the process of filing different notices right um so you file those notes and if you get to the end of it if you don't get a resolution by the end of it

you can then file a federal lawsuit but you have to file these notices and it takes a year or or so to file all of them um which of course what they're trying to do is kind of run out the statute of limitations. Like they keep going back and forth. So I don't know. I think he eventually did. Well, and usually what happens is before you leave the prison, like if you're, if you're going to be in prison for 20 years, they'll just run out the statute of limitations. You can file a lawsuit, but they'll quash it because you're basically property and they're saying, no, you don't get anything. If you're leaving and this guy was leaving, they'll typically come to you and offer you a settlement just before you get out because they don't want you to get an attorney.

and it's hard to get an attorney any way to represent you on the outside because the federal government will drag it out so long and there's so many laws protecting the federal government and the attorneys know that battle they know that and they're like look in the end we almost never these things are almost never worth anything so you have to pay me up front well you just got out of prison you have nothing right listen bro i could go on and on about medical but i mean medical will will give you listen funniest thing was there was a doctor that was in prison. And he, oh, I've known tons of doctors. And he went in one time and to be for something for medication. And he said, man, it's bad. He said, I walked in. And they were like, okay, Mr. So and so. And he said, doctor, so and so. And they were like, and they were like, well, you don't have a license anymore. And he said, no, I don't. But I still have a degree that says I'm a doctor. And he was like, and so the doc, so when they're going through that, he's like, yeah, yeah, my back is hurting right here. He's, oh, you mean your L-7? No, my L-7 would be just above my hips. And he looked at him and he was like, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see where you were pointing. Yeah, yeah. He goes on and

on and he's like, yeah, you need to prescribe me this. And he's like, oh, that's a narcotic. I can't do that. He says, no, it's not a narcotic. And he said, it's this. And so he sat there and had to explain to the doctor and argued with the doctor on what he wanted to prescribe. Because he was like, no, that wouldn't help me because I'm suffering from this. Like, he had to explain to the doctor. Did he get, did the doctor eventually get? Eventually, the doctor got frustrated and gave it to him. But he was trying to argue.

He was trying to argue with him. What? That doctor must have been so valuable in prison, right? Oh, listen, I saw him way more than I ever saw the medical staff. You would go and go talk to him and say, hey, Doc, you know, forget his last name. Hey, so-and-so, can I talk to you for a second? And he'd go, yeah, yeah. Listen, I've known pulmonary specialists in there. I was friends with the guy that was a pulmonary specialist. The one doctor was basically, he was just a general practitioner. I've known a couple of them. I knew, do you remember when Jeb Bush's daughter got busted for, and there was a friend of hers that had died of opioids? Yeah.

So the doctor that prescribed that medication was in prison with me. Oh, really? Yeah, they called him Doc. I forget his, God, my buddy, Zach would remember his name because he was, he was Selly's with him. He used to have night terrors, and he would wake up in the middle of the night, screaming. And I remember Zach one time got off his bunk and was like trying to wake him up. And he's, and he thought to himself, if the guard walks by right now, I'm a large black man

holding, shaking this frail old white man while he's screaming. He says, this is not going to look good for me. But he woke up and he would have these vivid dreams that was like someone was shoving him in an oven. And oh, it was, yeah, it was, it was, it was rough. What was his name? Anyway, he, he was super smart guy. And it's funny too, because he was dying and he knew what he was dying from. And he had gone to medical for something else.

And they were like, and while he was standing there, his hands were turned blue, right? His feet were turned blue, his hands. Because his heart had some kind of a disease or something. Blood. Right. So he would have to stand up and move around. And his hands were, if he just sat down for even a few minutes,

his hands would slowly start turning blue. Oh. And they were like, hey, your hands are. He's like, oh, yeah,

yeah, I have mild such and such and farkshund, such and such and such. And they'd be like, oh, okay. Well, you know,

we can give you something for that. And he was like, no, I don't want anything for it. He's like, he's at its current rate, he said, I'll be dead in about five years.

And they were like, well, we should give you, well, don't you, you don't want us just treated? He said, man, I got a life sentence in here. Oh, did he? Yeah, he was like, and he was already 70-something years old. He's like, I don't want it. Like, I want, this is how I want to slowly, eventually one day I'll just die of a heart attack at my sleep. He was totally okay with it. Hey, can we talk real quick about how you described that day in and day out once they took you up?

Was it Paxil? Right, Paxil, yeah. That was so well described. about the mental battle because I mean essentially you were in prison but also but literally but then metaphorically

your brain was in a prison where you'd have to combat those thoughts every day and regardless of you know what people's circumstances are that is something I've experienced you know where you wake up

and I'm not being in prison just being like oh you know this again And then you have to, but the way you were talking about, like, just getting up and going to do whatever, coffee, whatever that first thing is, some kind of motion. I think this is why Tony Robbins, let's be honest, that dude's a fraud at this point. He had some street cred until he started going with Dean Graziozzi. He's in your field, too. I think he had like a settlement for some kind of million in real estate scamming. He had like a real estate pyramid where he was selling it online where he was like, you'll make money.

but really I just make the money. You think you're going to make money. And as soon as Tony Robbins started partnering up with him, I think Tony's hopeful street cred or whatever, life coach street cred went out the window. But I think that's, you know, why people are so attracted to like a Tony Robbins. Because I did his free course. I did a whole video about it on YouTube because I wanted to see.

Like, is this really a scam? And when he talks, he does talk about things like that. Like, he does this weird thing where he's like, you got to do a posture stance for three minutes. And he's like, MIT proved my theories. They didn't have my tools. This is literally what he says, you know? And we're like, your tools. What, did you clap like you're trying to chop bamboo?

But he talks about just the physical motions that you can make during the day, kind of changing, like you said, the brain chemistry. So really, like what you describe, you should be saying that more. Because for anyone that's feeling depression or... in that mental battle, however far along you've been dealing with it. You did it for what? A decade? That's, you got to be exhausted after two days of doing that. Never mind a decade. You know, that's some real resilience, but just the fact that you convinced yourself to get up and do that first action. You know, that's going to snowball into the next whatever it is. And that's really, you know, part of getting out of it, I think. I don't know, just hearing that. I was like, wow, I can relate. And, you know,

I didn't have to do 13 years. Well, it was just, to me, it was, it was just baby. Like, most of the things I do in life are just, like, baby steps. Like, I don't, I don't typically see, like, I don't typically think of, you know, I, I, I know that this is the result I want is way down here. But my, all, I don't really focus on that. I think about the baby steps. Like, what's the first step? This one.

And so I just focus on that one little tiny achievable step, getting coffee. That's not hard. I have a bag of coffee. I have a creamer. I have some sweetener. You know, I can go heat up the water. You know what I'm saying? Like it's right down there.

They already counted. I can get out of bed. I can waddle down there. You know, with my coffee and do the whole thing. And I can, and I like coffee. Coffee's good. It's one of the only good things here. It's, you know.

And so you just keep talking to yourself for the next five minutes that it takes. And then once I get the coffee, of course, you smell coffee and you drink the coffee. You're like, oh, like that's a little bit better. Yeah, a little bit better. Okay, you know what? Wait, I'm supposed to go get go talk to Pete. I'm meeting Pete at at eight o'clock. What time is it? Oh, I got to get ready. You know what I'm saying? Like, just little baby steps. In the next hour, I have to complete this task and this task? Well, I think that's why, have you heard when they say, like, the first thing you should do when you wake up is, like, make your bed? I think that's in the same vein. It's like something that's achievable, which I think it's stupid because it's like, okay, we could do that.

But that's, you know, I think there needs to be more to it, whether you say it's coffee, you know, like something a little bit further from the bedside. I do make my bed every day, too, by the way. Yeah, of course. Because the guard, if you don't, then the guards will come and flip your mattress and they'll write you a shot. Oh, really? Yeah. So I don't, you know, we make it. We make our bed every morning. Jess and I kind of fuss over a little bit. I'm like, no, pull your side. Pull your side. She's like, my side's fine. I'm like, no, no, no. You don't know what you're doing. I did this 13 years. I don't know where you. I don't know what prison you were in. But at Coleman, we got hospital corners. Let me show you what a real hospital corner looks like, you know. Somebody's got to come in here. Flip it. Yeah. Oh, that's great. People always like, bro, you get up at like four in the morning. Why? I'm like, well, that's when the guards turn on the lights. oh really four in the morning no it was like five but still still it was like you know i was always just tell him i'm like well that's what i have to i have to get

up at five or at four they're like why i'm like that's when the guards are on the lights you're like i'm sorry where do you live oh listen listen i did uh we we're we do crossfit in the morning now and i say we like like she and i have been doing it for you know six months but really we'd be done like three times um but they were doing burpees do you know what burpees are oh yeah yeah so you know the guy was like you know here you know you're gonna start with burpees and he was showing us how to do burpees and i i only to save jess the embarrassment i stopped myself from saying listen that's not how the black guys in prison do them but i stopped myself because i thought and then later when we were getting the car

I told him that, hey, I almost said this. And she goes, you should have. That would have been hilarious. Right? You put him in check. You're like, let me get in the front of the class. No, so wait, is it live? Are you doing CrossFit, like, in a class?

No, we drive out there. We drive out to this place. It's a 10 minute, 10, 15 minutes from here. Listen, I always thought the greatest racket was the people, what was it, P90X? And do you remember that one? Were you locked up? P90X is like this big, bad that was essentially, I never did it. It was like a CrossFit thing.

But everyone I knew did it. But you just got a set of DVDs. And I thought, that is brilliant. You record this once. You just tell people, like, you know, it's some weird workup. You name it something odd. And then, I mean, I guess you got to be kind of good at it, or at least have the perception, you know, the body type to sell it.

And you record that once in people everywhere. It's just like those, you've seen the new bikes where you ride in place and they just got a screen there that does the classic. Yeah. Pelotton. Peloton. Peloton. All the rich people got those. I'm like, that's got it.

Because there's no one live on it, right? Those aren't live classes. I'm pretty sure that's a recording DVD slip in or something. What a racket. You could run one of those. You could do the prison work. You could call it, this is how the black guys did burpees in prison and just sell the DVD. I need some intellectual property on that, though.

Honestly, have probably the best conversations before the. podcast and after the podcast you got to just start rolling you got to start rolling well that's how like in radio you know people would come in and they would usually go into the producer's studio behind and you'd go in and wrap with them or like as as a producer you'd go in and be like hey what do you want to talk about you know especially comics they want like a setup you know like hey have you traveled lately or whatever a lot of comics don't do it anymore they're just talk to you but for a while you would have to just go ask is there anything you know like any lead-ins but before like or when they would give you that then they would tell you like the most crazy stuff that was happening you know like crowd wise or their true interactions in the city and you just be like god talk about that you know what i mean like the most human we had scott wyland on once right and he just passed away what a few years maybe a decade ago i don't know feels like he's the lead singer of uh stone temple pilots okay so he i forget what year he overdosed but he overdosed passed away

and he called in and at first it was very much like typical radio interview right but the host of the show had been through recovery and started to talk to him about that and then at some point you hear him talking to his kids you know saying something like hey no no one second and he's really you could tell the the radio aspect had kind of left him and he got very very comfortable right and he just started talking about his rehabbing process because I think he's He got clean many different times. It just didn't stick with him. You know, it was one of those who were like, it was a real struggle.

And some people, it's really hard. That's why the health care system and the rehab system, you see these rehabs popping up everywhere because they're spitting people out in 30 days, which just doesn't work. But he really got comfortable. And at one point, he went, oh, wait a minute. I can't be talking like this on the radio and he just abruptly ended the interview. But you knew, because some of the stuff he was talking about with drug use, you were like, oh, how? And you always hope people, because you don't want to see these people as like these

icon superstars, you know? Right. And when they become more human and just talk about their follies or, you know, whatever it is, it almost makes them more iconic because you can just relate, you know, that wow, this guy has these struggles that are this deep. And ultimately, he lost his life to that struggle. So it was even more, you know, when I look back, because We talked to, like, Chris Cornell came in studio, Anthony Bourdain, I mean, geez, all these people who either took their life or overdosed, and those were sometimes, like, the realist, you know, they weren't afraid to shy away from touching that darkness, you know. It's always don't, you know, don't, don't ever meet your heroes. You know what I mean? Like, and, you know, you've heard that saying, you know, don't, you know, because you're just bound to be disappointed.

Listen, every single person, every, in two, really more like three years that since, since probably three, three, and a little over three years since I did that podcast with, with, shoot, with Danny on concrete, I'm trying to think of concrete, because he changed it from concrete. Now it's Danny Jones. But with concrete, like I had people reaching out, wanted to talk to me, wanting to, you know, and I would have. guys like come like they're driving across the state just that have lunch with me and have me sign a book that sort of thing so listen i had a guy who flew in from from texas one time flew in hung out with me for the day um yeah just oh i've had this happen multiple times and we talked all the time another time i flew in flew it he flew me out to texas just to hang out and talk and actually I did kind of like a little presentation in front of his mortgage company and I've had these types of things happen and every single time you know of

course they're like wow bro you know it's so great talking to you this and that and I just always knew like we just talked everything I knew you were a cool guy and I felt like we'd be friends and this and that every single one of those guys we text for a few times back and forth back and forth and then it's over then it's over it's done there's one guy um The guy from Texas, his name's Ian, he, um, wow, hold on. I just, I don't even know what I just said. Guy from Texas, Ethan, Ethan, is it Ethan? Ethan.

I don't know. Wow, sorry. I knew I said it wrong. Hope he doesn't see this. Ethan, so, because what's so funny is I was talking to him all the time. I'm talking to him in months. And even then, now it's me. Because this is probably over a year ago that I flew out there.

So it now, it turns into me saying, because he's a younger guy. He's in his like 20s, right? In his late 20s. And I'm saying to him, now I'm texting him going, hey, bro, what's going on? You know, what happened with your girl? Like, I feel like my kid's not, I feel like my kid moved away. He's not calling me anymore. And so even Jess is like, she's like, what happened with Ethan?

Like, whatever happened? I'm like, I don't know. I texted him like a few months ago. I said, hey, bro, what's going on with you? he said hey man i'm going into a meeting i'm going to call you as soon as i get out i said never heard from him a couple days later i sent him another uh text message never heard from him he big time yeah she was god she said you know like he was he was all over you for months and i was like i know i said you i remember i kind of leaned over and tapped her i said never meet your heroes yeah

and she said yeah she said he found out you were just another douchebag i said i that's what i'm saying i'm just another fucking douchebag people think man he's so cool he's so this he's So then you meet me and you hang out with me, and you're like, ah, you're just the fucking schmow. It's just like us. What? You got issues? Listen, that's what, I don't know if Joe Rogan was bullied when he was younger,

but we had him on our show a bunch of times. And I know he's huge and everybody loves him. Let's be honest, he's just good at asking questions. He's very good at asking questions. But it's not like he's spitting out fire facts and, you know, like, right. I understand it really is like an art of dialogue, not to shout out that YouTube channel

but he's very good at it you know but when he was coming on our radio shows there was one time we went to a UFC fight right after I mean this guy had just come in he was doing his stand-up circuit I don't know like before he was the podcaster

he was doing stand-up I know he did some acting but really he was heavy on the stand-up circuit like he almost fought Carlos Mancia on our show he called and was like yo Carlos stole a And my jokes get on and we let those two kind of go at it. And I think Carlos Minceas disappeared.

I haven't heard nothing from him. But so anyways, usually when people come on enough, you start to not form a relationship, but you know them. You know, like if I saw you out, you came on our radio show, we wouldn't pretend like we didn't know each of you. You'd be like, hey, what's up? Maybe even plan as a producer, you'd always be like, hey, listen, next time I'm here in San Diego, you know, we'll get you on the show. what are you doing what's your tour um and this dude we had talked to him there was a UFC fight

i think like that weekend so we go to Vegas he's staying in the same hotel like getting the elevator like Joe what's up and he was like knuckle dragon like hmm you know like totally like didn't know me and I was like oh okay you know like I'm so sorry he's the great Joe Rogan he was doing the announcing too you know and it just sucked because it was like man such an opportunity to just be decent you know like just say hi and I don't hold it against him I know he's very occupied

with Spotify but it's one of those moments you you never know what here's the thing I try and give people the benefit of the doubt because you never know what's going through what's going on in their life at that moment and listen that's true these people at CrossFit we were driving home this morning

and I said I kind of feel like told Jess I was like I feel this is my wife, Jess. I was like, I kind of feel bad. I said because I'm, I'm so depressed and irritated that I'm, I'm even at that place. Like, I don't get that way at the gym. When I walk in the gym and the people at the front desk get to say, hi, I'm like, hey, what's going on? You know, like, hey, what's up? And I keep walking. And I'm like, I'm in better spirits. Because I don't mind the gym. I hate CrossFit. So when they're trying to explain the, okay, so we're going to do the burpees and then we're going to do this,

and we're going to do what we call it a hack split. And so. Hack split is, and I'm looking at them like... Just mentally exhausted. And even, I can't even pretend to be, to be enthusiastic. And when they're like, look, I know it's hard, but, you know, once you get through it, you're going to get muscle memory and it's going to be way easier. And I'm just looking and I'm like, like, I don't even pretend. I'm hating, in my, in my, in my mentally in my head, like, if I had a club, like mentally I'm picturing myself clubbing this person club. It's going back to prison.

This being going back to prison because it crossed it. because they're so peppy and so hyper and so excited it's disgusting it's part of the experience oh right experience of crossfit then you know what you're but you're right though because people are i feel bad jo rogan i'm very sorry you probably know he could have a fight with his wife or you know it's that's true listen that's true and especially like you know in our culture we famous people are supposed to just be these uh i hate to say like you know that old like dance monkey just dance for me what you know like it's supposed to be these things these objects that are for our entertainment and it's again it's like such a dehumanizing thing um but for me it was just

weird because like i was like yeah we just talked to you we have you on the show all the time he was like very familiar you know so it i don't know that's my ego talking again because I was like, come on, Joe, we're both from Massachusetts. Shout out Natick. What's up, man? I know you're news radio. You the funny dude, but just say hello. You hear me, Joe?

Next time I'm going to see you. Listen, Joe Rogge is not watching this program. You know what I mean of the people that watch my stuff have written him and emailed him? And what's his name? What's his name? Jody? What's the producer? I know what you're talking about the one that always needs to throw something up on the

listen how many people have sent him email saying you got to have this guy on your program you got to have so you know he's if if all those people there's no way he's ever watched my program he has no idea who i am although you listen to this i hold on i'm going to tell you you never know what he's going through he could have just had to fight with his wife for the past few months so i'm waiting in six months you don't know but listen to this here's what's funny when he you know soft white underbelly which i was on oh really yeah oh soft white underbelly is love love that dude that mark later yeah he's great so i went to l.a for just for a but i was meeting with some producers and um and i was doing a couple and so i scheduled a bunch of podcasts

that was one of the podcasts i scheduled so i did soft white underbelly well joe rogan like eight months or a year later came across soft white underbelly and he's like i've been watching it for fuck for like four days straight five days straight whatever he's said and then he said man this guy he does homeless people drug acts he interviewed this con man on there he interviewed and he starts naming well i was the at that time i don't i probably still to this day i was the only con man that he'd ever interviewed so i people in the comment section were blowing up blowing me up going bro jo rogan just talked about you on the podcast and i was like what and i then i went and i watched it somebody said hey time stamp you know one minute 12 yeah whatever

I was like, I watched it and I went, oh, yeah, yeah. He probably definitely didn't mean me, but he probably watched my thing. Well, for a while, Soft White Underbell, he only had a certain amount of video. I know he's doing more now, but for a while, like he, there was not a regular upload schedule. I think something happened where he, you know, obviously it's a little more flooded with content. Oh, and now it's flea, he does it like it's almost every day. Listen, that guy's on a mission. Yeah, but he's doing God's work, let's be honest.

Yeah, yeah, no, he's, well, here's the thing. about if you were to go out and meet him like he he had this very lucrative career and made a bunch of money and when he got to the point where he was like okay I'm retiring this is and he kind of

kicked back and thought what do I want to do with the remainder of my life this is what he came up with he said I want to document as many the lowest people out there and it was an evolution and he explains it

First, what he did was he actually did something for like National Geographic or something where they had him go around the country and take photographs of different people, right? Oh, was he the dude that put, he like won an award for that, right? I'm not sure. But what happened was that was the spark that started him on, there are these people on the fringes of society that have a story that nobody tells. And so he said, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to start telling those people's story.

And he told me he. Well, no. He's letting them tell their story. That's right. I mean, he's an interview. Well, he kind of, he'll, he'll say stuff that spark it along. Yeah. Yeah. And he'll interview. I didn't know this either because when I went and I interviewed with him, like I sat there and I just did this whole, whatever, an hour long interview, 50 minute interview. And I did the whole thing. And when I was done, he said, wow, man, that, you know, thanks, man. That was, that was great. He said, I'm definitely going to use that one. And I went, what do you? I said, were you ever, was that ever a question? And he goes, oh, yeah, you'd be shocked. I used I interview four or five people a day. I only end up using like maybe one. And I was like, can you say why? Yeah, because he said most of the people that he interviews are typically just

incoherent. Yeah, that's like they can't tell a story or stay on topic long enough that he said, the ones that I can, I'll listen. And I'm like, okay, here's you go. Goodbye. Thank you. And he's like, they just don't, you're like, there's nothing I can do. with that because he said some of these guys stories will be an hour long two hours long he said

i'll trim it down to like 20 minutes of a coherent interview that's why you ever noticed they'll fade in and out and they'll he'll do the transitions he's usually chopping out places where they went off on a tangent or just where he'll be coherent but but the people he's talking to you got to figure out you know there's probably a lot of mental illness or just so much the addiction has worn on you. I mean, the brilliant thing about him is he kind of just lets, there's no narrative, you know, it's there. Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying is he actually trims it into a narrative. You know, you don't see that editing. So yeah, he's real slick. Yeah, he's, he's, he's good at it. He's, you know, and genuinely just a nice, a nice guy. And he does follow-ups now, which is

awesome. Right. I had mentioned to him that I might was going, I was thinking about going to L. And, like, bringing a couple people with me to L.A. And I asked him, hey, do you want, would you want me to have me back on? And he was like, yeah, he's like, you know, yeah, let me know. And I never, we never did go. But wait, wait, when you did, were you fresh out of prison when you had done that? Or were you already doing? Yeah, I've been out maybe, maybe five or, maybe five or six months. Oh, wow. So you hadn't, you were not here on YouTube doing your own thing. No. Listen, that's one of the things like for instance I did concrete that got a couple million views uh the one soft white underbelly got a couple million views like I had I had three videos out that

literally all of them got like two million views and I had no content so if I had content at that type I had a channel said hey this is my channel and I had if I had five videos I probably have half a million to a million subscribers right now but I didn't do it I didn't do it because that was when remember I told you Danny Jones told me that first interview he said this is going to be big he said i can't promise it but i feel like this is going to be a big video you need to start a youtube channel and i was and i was like no i don't have the right equipment i don't this he's like he just take your phone and start making videos like oh no it'll be bad and this is a phone i said it's an iphone video i don't even know how to up like you know

and he and so instead of him really sitting down and say listen to me motherfucker you don't know what you're talking about yeah telling you right now what i'm telling you he didn't so i didn't he didn't he didn't push it he just went okay i get it and you know no one now i realized like yeah it wasn't his responsibility it's like i told you just gave you some good advice go fuck yourself and i did wait wait wait hold on so because when you got out of prison if you did 13 years did you like what was youtube to you nothing i'd never been on youtube i don't i don't ever recall being on youtube i tell people i must have at some point because youtube had been out maybe a year or so but it

2004 right 2005 or or maybe no maybe before that but I got arrested in 2006 yeah so wow it wasn't on your radar right no no like people weren't using

this is people were uploading you know they're uploading like you know um like their their barbecues yeah their kids birthdays and shit so

um you know so wait when you got out and you're doing these interviews because for me working in a radio for so long. The people who thought like this is my avenue to make a career, I thought we're brilliant because that never occurred to me. So when you were doing these YouTube videos or interviews, were you like, and what does this go on? You know, were you like? So I was in the

halfway house and and people had been telling me, you know, you got you could go on YouTube. You can make a podcast on YouTube. But keep in mind too, there was no such. The word podcast didn't even, wasn't even created until like 2009 or something or 11 or something so there was no podcast that's a made-up word that came into existence you know so you know people were trying to explain to me you can do it you got new guys you got to do a true crime podcast bro I read some of your stories you're amazing you could do a great true crime podcast and I was like what is that and then people started giving me articles saying bro when you get out you're going to be getting out a year or two you got to do one of these look the top true crime podcast these top 20 none of

are done by actual guys that were in prison and I was like and none of these were written by guys and you're writing stories and I was like okay I you know like I don't okay I understand like I get it I guess so you know they were like people are trying to explain to it it's kind of like a radio show but it's like a they like a remember the old radio shows that 20s you know they they do it and then they leave a cliffhanger they're like 20 minutes long and you know I was like okay well and and you do what you upload it upload it I don't know what does that mean upload you go to your you go to your YouTube channel how do you get a channel oh you I don't really know but you you figure it out and you can go YouTube YouTube will tell you how to do it

okay I don't know what does that mean like these concepts that people take so for granted now you know oh just go to YouTube and watch a video it'll tell you how to do it's like what what does that mean how do you even get there how do you even get like none of this existed there was no Wi-Fi you're saying Wi-Fi was that came out while I was in prison oh really Yeah, there was no, there was no, like, Wi-Fi and all this. And it was, you know, you plugged in to like, you know, my computer would plugged in to the wall. To a phone line. Right.

Yeah. That was it. Like that's, and you go, you know, this is, this is so fascinating because people forget, like all my friends that came out of prison, you would update them real quick. But their stinks were never had a 13 years. You can't update. And literally I had some, my probation officer emailed me something one time. This was when I'm in the halfway house working at a gym. I go to my boss and I said, listen, man, I have to fill out a financial like affidavit thing

where I have to fill out. It's like 20 pages. And he was, okay. I said, well, I have to print it. I don't know how to print it. He goes, well, what happened? She sends you an email? I went, yeah, she sent me an email.

And he goes, okay, he was here, forward the email to me. And I go, okay, so I forwarded it to him. And I, how do I do that? He goes, here, look, see this? Grab my phone. boom boom boom see that that's my email here see the see the little arrow see the little the little the little um airplane yeah hit that okay okay okay i said okay he sat there he goes okay wait a minute he goes all right hold on all right go over to the it's on the printer

i said no bro i said no bro i need to i need to print it and he goes no i know it's on the printer i said it's on the printer what you talking about bro i just sent it to you i didn't say what printer and he goes it's on the printer i just printed it it's in the office and i went and i'm looking at i can see the printer it's like 45 feet away right maybe 40 feet away and i looked at it and i went now bro i sent it to you like you didn't plug it in or anything you didn't plug your phone into the you got to like you got to go to the office and go on your email and he goes bro it's my phone is connected to the Wi-Fi i just printed it off the Wi-Fi what what it what What? He goes, come here, bro.

It walked over to me, and sure enough, there was fucking like 20 or 30 pages of the thing. It was magic, bro. I almost felt like one of those Indians that, where they land in the helicopter and they think they just came out of like a metal devil and they kill all the, all of the, all of the, in the Amazon or something. Like they show them a picture on their phone and these guys are like, oh my God, those are pictures of people in his phone. Black magic. Kill them all. Yeah, you think it's magic. I thought, it was like magic. I literally thought, oh, my God.

he's the devil kill him um you know i just yeah so so i've always thought only because when people i loved came out of prison there was no adaptation moment it was almost like you're dropped in this world that you don't understand stepping into the future i was stepping i used to say it all time it's like i've stepped into the future it's insanity do you understand this is like this is like the most powerful and look you know what i do you know what i have on here by the way this is funny. And so many people take this for granted. I have Hal from 2001 Space Odyssey. See, how? You know, 2001. Yeah. So that's what that's a great explanation. But so I've always thought the prison system does no justice, especially for people like, remember, there were a lot of people

that need, it's a punishment, you're supposed to be there, whatever. Let's, we can all acknowledge that. But What I'm talking about is, let's say, in your last year, right? And at what point did you know? Like, you were like, I'm 100% getting out. There's nothing in my way. This is happening. Like a year out or? Probably a year after I got out of prison, I stopped thinking they were to come get me

and tell me they'd made a mistake. Oh, really? Yeah. I literally at 4 o'clock, I felt sick to my stomach every day because for 4 o'clock count, you have to be in your cell to be counted. You have to be standing up in your cell so the guards can count you. And at 4 o'clock, anybody who spent more than 5 or 10 years, years in prison will tell you four o'clock every day for about a year or so I felt sick to my stomach

like I need to be myself I need to be what is going on like I felt so uncomfortable around three third between yeah it's just it's sickening so I was super aggressive when I got out too like very aggressive to everybody even though I you know I say well I'm assertive like I'm not going to attack anybody they're like yeah but the way you behave the way you respond to people you know that hey man you're gonna eat that you're gonna eat that bro can i get that let me get that that that's the culture that you had to exist it and there should be some kind of like you were talking about earlier in prison there was so much more base in my voice what's up yeah what's up like i wasn't it wasn't i wasn't you know even joy base in my voice i was still a soft ass cracker right

but but in prison i was like yeah what's up What do you need? The high ends were taken out. Any kind of laughter or hitting those high tones is just erased. No, that's over. That's what I've always thought, like how, and I get it, you know, why they don't do this. But in those final years, especially with people who don't have a long time, how is there no adjustment program? Like you said, you can get down to a camp.

But this is for real, because if we want people to be. able to serve their time, their punishment, and then be able to readjust to society, you just explained it perfectly. You're getting out and you're way more. There's a whole dynamic that people miss that, like, we can't expect people to live in that culture in that prison for so long and then step out into a world and just go, all right, what, so what, oh, we have iPhones and Wi-Fi. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I'm fine.

I can totally operate around this. It's like there's nothing. There's nothing to teach you. there's nothing it's spitting you out i got so i got an an android because it was cheap right yeah the iphone is right so i got an android and i was it kept getting viruses and shit like these guys were these guys at the at the halfway house were like bro download you know red box you can watch any movies for free and i was like oh okay i'm downloading stuff with viruses on it and everybody's always like oh you must have been going on porn site bro porn sites weren't even

on my my radar like i well and you know listen there are so many uh like those mock up sites that look exactly like you know it says like hey you logged out log back in it looks exactly but you got to notice one right and they get your password i mean everyone gets scanned by that but yeah my thing is getting shut down and i'm asking guys to help me nobody wants to help you nobody you know so at some point i go to i'm at the gym one day you know i said let man my my my phone is just I have to shut it off every 20 minutes and restart it and reboot it and how do you this? And he looked at me. He said, man, come on. Listen. He said, do you have any money at all? I've paid you this much money? You have some money. So, no, I got a little bit of money left.

You know, I got some money. I got some money had come in. And he said, we're going to go get you an iPhone. And I was like, well, what do you mean? I said, how much are those? And he was like, you can get one that's like the older model, not the newest one. They just came out the newest one. So you can get one that like the old one. They're giving them away. He said, it's going to be a few hundred bucks. He said, and they'll finance it for you. Oh, I don't really have credit. He said, it doesn't matter.

You have my credit or not. You have no credit. They'll finance it. And he's like, they can't give these things away. So I was like, okay, I was like, well, why do I want that? He said, let me tell you why. He said, Steve Jobs knows. He knew a long time ago that most of this country is made up of idiots.

He said, and you're an idiot right now. He said, you're a smart idiot. But right now you're basically a tard. He said, and even a tar. can use the iPhone. He said, look at me, Matt. He said, I could barely read. He's, I didn't graduate high school. I could barely read. He said, I can use the iPhone. He said, Steve Jobs took away all those choices that don't mean anything. He said, and simplified it to the point where any moron can use an iPhone. He said, you need to use an iPhone. I was like, all right, bro, I got to

learn a whole new thing. You don't have to learn anything new. He said, you can't figure this fucking thing out yet he said listen within four or five days I was doing great on the iPhone wasn't getting huh

apps that must have you out apps I'm doing this I'm swiping this way I'm learning that close out all these things I'm doing this I'm dragging shit I'm making copies I'm sending stuff I'm using the Wi-Fi I'm walking in places going hey what's your Wi-Fi code I mean I was like you know people like wow it's easier on it

You know, I'm showing other people of the halfway houses how you do it, bro. You better get rid of that thing. You know, listen, that thing, it's, and, you know, it, so it, that helped me. I don't think I could use an Android. Well, that's, well, yeah, I mean, iPhone definitely dumped it down for like the lowest common denominator. But that's what made it so dangerous because now you see a whole generation of kids. And I mean, these kids at like two years old can access and utilize, you know, all these apps. It's really, I don't know, man.

I get that it's a wonderful thing, but it's dangerous. Oh, yeah, I feel naked. Like, if I put my phone down, like, I'm definitely one of those guys who wants to grab my phone constantly, constantly. Who isn't, though? I mean, I challenge you to just go outside in a city atmosphere, walk down the street, and see how many people are actually looking around. Oh, yeah.

It's insane. Look, can you imagine coming out of prison? I'm coming out of prison, and people are walking around talking. I think they're schizophrenic because there's schizophrenics inside prison talking to themselves. Yeah, they're like walking, looking at you, walking by going, yeah, man, well, so, no, I told the guy. I told the guy, I'm like, what, I don't know what I said, what happened, what, and then they walk by and I realize, what happened. I don't, oh, and then I see this little white thing. You're trying to fight everyone.

He's talking to me? Yeah, what? Um, and this is a little white thing in there. Who's going to a meeting? Yeah. Well, I won't be there. Um, so, yeah, it's, it was. insane. It was insane. And then I realized, okay, all these people aren't crazy. They just have

like earbuds in. And then I noticed too, like I would be in a room and there'd be 40 people in the room and 38 of them are doing. Just looking down. People, I notice that people, you know, you go to dinner and there's 20 tables and 15 of the tables are people sitting there. There's three people, all of them on their iPhone, not even talking, maybe four or five people talking and periodically doing, you know, periodically picking up their phone going, whoever said, what's the quote, or, wait a minute,

just, oh, nice. Nice, right? Yeah. Listen, now's the time. I live right next the Salem, and it is a bastard getting in and out of the city. You can, I think we get like a million people I forget over the course of a month, but

it cannot handle it. But, you know, whoever said about the phones, it's like it was a or the internet where they say it's like the thing that was meant to connect us all but turned out to be the most isolating device there is you know it's so crazy because that's all you see everywhere not so much in salem though i get to say when you go down to the haunted happenings and you know all the stuff that they got going on we're going to some parade tonight but they have stuff throughout the time yo it looks like the back of your phone everywhere We would take the kids when they were little, right?

Because the main historic street is, you know, million-dollar homes, fully done. They all look like haunted houses, professional Hollywood. I think I even did some videos on my YouTube channel just because it's so remarkable. I asked some people, I said, what do you do for a living where you can afford? They had this house where they emptied out all their rooms, okay? And they had these glow-in-the-dark skeletons that, like, would move, like animatronic. And I was like, how did you afford that? Jesus, just for 30 days, for 30 days.

There's so much, what's so funny is around us, you know, the complexes around us, houses going 800,000, a million, you know. And, you know, the house I live in, in Florida is probably worth about, whatever, 400,000, you know, at least 400, maybe more now. So, but the houses, you know, they're, and these are kind of cookie cutter. Like there's other places around us that are in. insane, you know, 800,000, a million. And I don't, it's not like there's like a hundred of them. There's thousands and thousands of them. And I was like, the amount of money

that is out there, the amount of these people that are probably millionaires. And there's just tons of them, tons of them. It just boggles my mind that I'm struggling to come with my rent. And this guy's got three cars. He only drives one of three cars. His wife's got another car his two all of his kids have car i'm like what is this guy do you ask him i always ask people i don't i don't ask because they don't want to talk to me oh i mean ever really if i was your neighbor man i'd be picking your brain i'd be like oh how do we listen all my neighbors all the neighbors on my street they're all like cops and they're their sheriff's deputy there's like three sheriff's deputies then one some guy sells insurance and other guy is like a retiree there's like all

of them in the um what's that florida i forget with like the county have you seen they hold live broadcasts on youtube to announce like criminal activity there is some sheriff have you know you yeah you mean grady sheriff grady is that him i'm not in his i'm not in his uh no no that's i think that's polk i'm not in polk county but i love sheriff grady really oh he's great bro he's that dude is like an entertainer first cop second i watch his like when they do a live stream i'm like yo this guy's about to go off he just like he likes these criminals up i love the one where they say he goes um that the the um the reporters like well why did your share why did your deputies you know fire you know 300 rounds into the house

he said because we ran out of bullets he's like he is listen make no make no make no make no uh uh you know qualms about it he said evil cannot be dead enough and he's just like he's the same dude yeah yeah yeah he's he'll pull out the picture of somebody and be like now this guy listen to what he did oh he's he's he's he's like look he's like we know we found this guy who had was a burglar he's burglarized like five houses or been arrested like 10 times you know would have been in jail five times 10 different burglars. We found him running from a house. He had been shot.

He died at the hospital, said he was burglar. He was breaking in somebody's house and the guy shot him. But we don't know who that person is who shot him. He said, I want them to know you're not in trouble. We, he said, we encourage our residents to have guns and shoot burglars. What we want you to, why we want you to come down the Sheriff's Department, not because you're in trouble, because we want to give you a free shooting lesson because you should have killed him you shot him three times you if you get a few lessons you could have shot and killed him the first time do you watch this dude on youtube too

hilarious because they do like uh i was kind of shocked at how lord is very conservative well just this guy alone he's like he is alt right like i i nervous like when you see his press conferences on youtube you worry about what this dude is like at a dinner party. You know, because he's... I've talked, I know guys that know him. Really? Yeah, they say, he's going to have him on the podcast. He's exactly like he is in real life.

Listen, all the sheriffs down here are super, super conservative, super right wing, super, all of them, they want, they want the citizens to have guns. They do not like criminals. And I'll tell you one thing, whenever I have ever been pulled over, by a police officer in the state of Florida, I've been very polite. You don't see me saying, would you pull me over for?

I'm like, hey, bro, I thank God you pulled me over. I was speeding. I'm surprised it took you so long. I'm embarrassed that you had to pull myself over. If you didn't do it. Would you like to search my car? I feel it.

I'm okay. He's out there. Yo, but you know what concerns me? I don't know. Did they legalize cannabis? yet in Florida or is it still like a medical you know

you go to one of the things and you say you know I have anxiety oh you need marijuana I do need marijuana that's what terrifies me that you don't have that medical license they're like yeah we'll shoot to kill it's very it's a very much

a law and order and listen keep in mind too I interview criminals I hear the excuses I but the truth is you know and look and absolutely there's there's corrupt law enforcement in Florida everywhere but you know this is the way I look at listen it you have a you can divide you can put together the perfect system right the perfect system and then you have human beings run it yeah it all broke down no no it's the perfect system well we're going to have judges and police all okay it all fell are these humans

they're going to find a way to be corrupt, they're going to manipulate it, they're going to be, you have that in every facet of life in every single country, you know, is it bad in the United States? Yeah, but it's bad everywhere. Well, especially when you're talking power dynamics, as soon as you give somebody enough power, it corrupt. Some people shouldn't, some people just shouldn't be police officers. They should not be in a position of authority, period. Now, I've been lucky, you know, that most police officers that I've ever dealt with have been very professional, probably the most unprofessional. Did you say lucky or a white guy? No, I'm just lucky. Listen, the people that were unprofessional, I've only had one or two people be unprofessional.

Really? And that was really the FBI. That was like one FBI agent. All police officers that I've ever talked to have been super professional. But then again, I'm, I'm super. very polite, very nice, very, you want to see my ID? Of course, you can see it. But the truth is, if we were walking down the street and you stopped me and said, Hey, bro, can I get, can I see your idea real quick? What's your name? Which I'd be like, I probably pull my wallet.

I'd be like, well, yeah, my name's Mac Cox. What's God? I'm not going to let you walk off with it, but I might hold it up. Be like, my name is Matt Cox. Like, I don't see that I'm not, you know. Where were you dealing with the police most of the time? I know you're talking about Florida. Where else?

Or was it strictly Florida? Nashville. I've been pulled over. in Nashville, South Carolina, in South Carolina, and North Carolina. I mean, I've gotten tickets. Ever in Massachusetts? No, keep in mind, I drive like a maniac because I'm typically not driving on my ID. So if I'm driving on your, if I get a fake, if I get a driver's license in your name, I'm

probably doing 95. Probably driving a sports car in your name with full coverage insurance and I'm probably doing 95. So if I get pulled over, I'm, you know, I'm going to be polite. Yeah. Like, I don't want to go any further. Listen, I've been pulled over, been polite. These cops have been, you know, like screaming.

At one time I got pulled over because he said I didn't have a license. He said I owed, what was it, excise taxes, which I was like, how do you even know that? You know what I mean? Like, how is that coming up? And my wife had to hold. Would you like that in cash right now, officer? No, listen, this dude still had braces. He was with the state police.

And it wasn't until my wife pulled out her phone and started recording that like that is out of change. you know that will really just put that power dynamic in check there's some douchebags out there yeah no doubt like listen there's definitely and you know the problem is is that you know somebody ends up getting the brunt of that and eventually the great thing about cell phones now is you know is that they're catching all that and these guys are all on their peas and cues now so they're all like you know much more which has to suck for them that you know what those guys probably go when they get fired or or resigned from the police department they probably be become prison guards or you know or they go to the next town and become cops there how many

times you heard of that it's like there's no it's so weird that like the police get to police the police you know like yeah like you said fault in a system fault in a perfect it's one of those things where you're like you know this can't be how it is but unfortunately yeah they typically those dudes you know like the ones that need to be fired or need to resign And they just cross the county line and they're hireable again? So I interviewed a guy, I interviewed the sheriff of Okechobee County and the head of the, it's in Florida. Okay. And the head of the task for the, well, the former head of the task force, the drug task force there.

And one, they, they knew I had gotten out of prison. This was for a story I was writing. They knew I'd gotten out of prison. And they were both fairly condescending, you know. To say the least. You know, and I sat there and I, you know, and I just, but I didn't get offended, you know, they, he made it. There was a couple of cracks. And then when I, when it eventually, even though I had told them I need about an hour, at least an hour.

You know, even when it got to a point where, you know, he was saying a little snide comment. well you know these guys they get on that on that you know on that you know ice or methamphetamine you know I'm talking about you you know how you all get or you know so the little things that I was thinking I was in prison for bank fraud I've never been on method but okay but but I didn't say that I was like I was like right right so I'm just taking my notes and I've got a recorder and he was like and I can't you know and I'd ask a couple of questions and he said things that were clearly inaccurate he said things like for instance like he said you know we couldn't get, because of the age of the records and the case, we weren't able to pull any of that

information up because of the age, we no longer have those records. And I, and I said, well, that's okay. I said, I have the records because his own Freedom of Information Act officer who sits in the next room gave me the records. So I could pull them up, but he couldn't. But he doesn't have access. He's basically blatantly lied and said, we no longer have those records. You do have the records. I pulled the record. But I didn't get confrontational like, hey, bro, like, I'm trying to get something out of you trying to get on with the you know so I'm like right I understand that I said well it's fine I've reviewed the records and I just kept going you could see it in his face like that that where he realized like oh he just he didn't say anything but she must realize I just lied

and then at one point he's like I asked him the same question probably three different ways because he just wasn't responding he wasn't respecting let's be honest right and I so finally he goes listen and he kept calling me Bubba listen Bubba listen Bubba he goes he says listen but he's what's your name again? And I said, Matt. And he goes, oh, okay. Liza Bubba. He said, let's try and get through this.

Okay, so you can get the stuff you need for your little article. I mean, I don't think anybody around here is going to read it. He said, but maybe it'll help somebody. So let's get through this as quick as possible. So let's wrap this up. And I said there, I said, absolutely. I apologize. You're right.

Sorry. Let's go ahead. And I said, my next question is, and I asked him the next question. And, you know, the problem is he's used to being interviewed by the local, you know, Okechobee news for a 300-word article. And I'm doing like an 8,000-word article. And I'm asking more, you know, intrusive questions that he doesn't want to, doesn't feel comfortable answering. Even though I told them up front, this is what we're going to be talking about. Yeah, but you also probably have like a history of understanding the law.

and all those things that he's not normally dealing with. Well, yeah, and I'm also used to dealing with people that are not super friendly, bullies. And I don't get offended easy, right? No, no, I totally, but before you ended the interview, did you tell him like you're very grateful he's, the one protecting our communities? No, I didn't. I didn't, but here's, so, but here's the problem. You really need that kind of attitude around here. So, so here's the problem. And this is probably where we're going to differ. As aggressive and bullish and, you know, arrogant as he is, he's also the guy that I want showing up if I'm in trouble.

He's going to grab the bad guy by his hair. He's going to fucking cuff. He's going to chase him down. He's going to, you know, he's going to be that thick-necked Neanderthal that you want showing up and grabbing people. He doesn't, you know, that person that shows up and says, what's going on? Let's talk about this. Oh, I'm so, you did. Did you realize this wasn't your house when you climbed in the window?

You know, like that feel good, fluffy guy that shows up and, and is all concerned about everybody's feelings. Like, I prefer the guy that comes. And even if he has to put me in cuffs while he's investigating, I'm okay with being in cuffs while you figure out what's going on. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't have to be. Listen, this is where. we're totally going to differ because I got that's why I knew that I got too much he was being him being a little bit aggressive you know what I'm saying because I need that guy to chase down the bad guys I guess I's probably not a nice guy but you're also going on the premise that like he's gonna chase down the bag there are some dudes and I'm not saying all of them but in your hypothetical that aggressiveness translates into like heroicness you know getting him for jumping in front of the bullet and we've so I think most of the time it does you know what I'm saying is that's what you think And from my perception, from where I'm standing, there's a lot of people that like to bark all day long.

But when it comes to push comes to shove, it not, you know, because technically, isn't it like technically with police officers, they don't have to, you know, get in harm's way. You've always heard that, right? Like, that police officers necessarily aren't, we saw it with, what was the shooting in Texas? We're like, they weren't. They weren't. The guy doesn't run in. He doesn't run in. And I feel like, by the way, I feel like the two officers that, the two officers that I interviewed, as they're going in that building.

Okay. Pretty sure that, pretty sure that Grady, Judd is going in that building. He might end up shooting a couple of innocent kids along the way. Well, he's going to get that shooter. So, Matt. He might be a teacher. She looked, she looked cockyed at him, but he's going to get the shooter eventually. So this is, so you're leading into my second point, because I'll give you that.

You met him, I didn't. Maybe these are the dudes that are barking and like they're ready to go off the leash. He's ready to yank me around. I didn't have do anything. But that's my next point is like, listen, if there's a confrontation, right, if there's something that is already heated, you can feel the electricity in the air, normally the last person you want is going to be someone who's going to run in and estimate. it more, right? Or I don't know. Maybe you're like, I'm telling you're thinking, I'm not saying, I'm not saying that, I mean, trust me, I like, I love the officers that come in or matter of fact, just here's what's going on and they deescalate and they're polite and appreciative. But I also see when people start, you know, they're yelling back and they're getting it and you're like, look, this is what's going on. And then they, they, they can't seem to get themselves under control. Yeah. Then I don't, you know, I've watched some of these videos. You obviously watch the First Amendment videos. You've seen some of these.

I guess in the auditors. And you get some of you. Right around the corner from me, who does. I see him out all the time because he's always, I'll say he's a little bit of an instigator, but he's always there. Right. So to me, I've seen these guys and you see the officers, every once in a while you'll get an officer that is just off the chain and saying you think he shouldn't have a badge.

He shouldn't have a badge. And then you see the other officers that pull up and say, hey, we've gotten some phone calls, what's going on? And they go, well, this. And then they go through their little thing. And they're like, okay. hey, hey, you have every right to be here. You're right.

You don't have to give me your license. Well, why'd you ask for it? Well, I asked for it because I ask for it from everybody. Usually they give it to me. But you don't want to. I get it. And, you know, look, I'm just saying, we got a call. We had to come out.

I can see that you're just videoing. I get it. I know what you're doing. I hear you. And leave. That's great. Like, you're, I agree with you. You know, like that's how I would love for most officers to behave.

But I think it's a lot like narcissism, right? Like you have these guys that are CEOs and presidents and, and congressmen and almost exclusively, 95% of these guys are also narcissists. Yeah. And so you think, so the guy that gets things done that pushes the envelope, that climbs the ladder of success, you know, these guys are typically narcissistic. Yeah. Like they may and I be great human beings if you're dating them.

Like I feel complete pity for my wife, this chick, God knows what she's going through. But I'm saying in general, you know, narcissistic becomes CEOs and presidents and stuff where they go to prison. You know, and then they get out and they do, they kind of become a little bit humble and they do a YouTube channel. So, I mean, I hear you, there's, there is the perfect officer out there. I just think that a lot of times that you just don't, you just don't get those guys for very long. And I never, I'll tell you, listen, I be very. people like because I don't want to get dragged out of a car ever again but I seem to run into those guys maybe it's a Boston thing I was going to say because I also see the times

when you'll see a YouTube video and this person is going nuts and the author just keeps letting them and they're trying to explain and trying to explain and try and I'm sitting there thinking I'd have yanked that dude out of the car by now like I explained it four times and you keep arguing and twisting and you won't get out of the car like at this point I'm going to to grab you. I'm yanking you out. Like, I gave you a chance, bro. Like, I'm not going to have a 20-minute argument with you. That's where we can agree. There's a line and people can be idiots. You know, people can, whatever it is, they're almost acting more entitled. But I just think at the end of the day, that line is, is so better off being pushed. Not a, I hate to say a little

further, but the whole thing on the side of the car is protect and serve, you know, like it doesn't, Like the escalating, the shooting bystanders, 300, you know, that's the part where I go, man, it's not working, you know, it's not a crime deterrent. It's just not. And especially when you look at what the prison system has become and, you know, the repercussions of all this stuff, it's just, I don't know, I think it's cyclical in that it's creating more of that attitude than what we need is these de-escalators. And I'm sure there's a million people that are going to be like, oh, come. come to this neighbor who comes to that but i mean then that dives into more of like i promised you there's not a million people that are going to watch this i'm hopeful thank you if you get 10 000 listen if anybody get in the video gets to this point

that list they list i feel like i owe them something and if they watch any of the the commercials oh that's yeah what commercial are we coming back from who knows we you know throw up your again. We've got to get a sponsor. I filled out a form and answered all these questions for these guys. You got to send me one. I can't keep watching that creamsicle drink and not know. They don't sell them up here. They're great. Yeah. So have you not seen nothing? Are you, do you watch YouTube like regularly or are you not like a consumer of the product you're up? Not really. No? I mean, I watch infer, like, I watch

I watch stuff on I watch documentaries on World War II I watch things on going to Mars I watch you know what I'm saying things like that I'll watch I utilize this for like history stuff people are brilliant with their history collaborations exactly so that those are the kinds of

things you know the Apollo missions the so I'm more interested in history and you know things of that nature as opposed to watching, you know, like Mr. Beast, you know, go up a car, give away a car or, you know, I'm sure wonderful. A Lamborghini, bro, let's be very direct and clear on this. Right. He put a Lamborghini and a press and crushed it.

This kid. Yeah, I don't, I don't watch, like, I don't watch my own stuff. Like, I never, I don't think I've ever, I matter of fact, that's not even true. I'm not going to say that. I know I've never watched an entire video of mine ever. Really? Really. No, Kobe, you can do whatever you want.

That's why I'm saying every once in a while, I'll watch like a minute or two, and I'll be like, what did he do? Yo, Kobe, I encourage you to put a video of yourself in between all of our edits and this. Just slip yourself in, being like, hey, it's Kobe, doing it's meditating. So sometimes I'll watch it and I'll be like, my lips are, I'm going. And it's a completely different dialogue. I'm like, what did you do? What did you do? Like, it's not.

And then it'll start hooking up again. It'll link up again. I'm like, I don't know what is happening here. Like, I need to start watching these. I, uh, so I did all the production at the radio station. They didn't tell me that was part of my job. When I negotiated the contract to come from San Diego to Boston. Oh, yeah, you have to sweep the, uh, the drive.

We have to sweep the parking lot every night too. What? These dudes were so, um, like, just, it wasn't even not clear. It was like, they were very direct. in like, this is what job you had. And then as soon as I signed the deal and got here, they were like, oh, yeah, by the way, you're this, this, this, this. You know, and I was shocked because I was like, oh, man, I should have got a lot more money.

But one of the things I did was all the sound design. So when I left, I had, I knew it was coming from the day I began just because of who the host was that my contract wasn't getting negotiated. In fact, I went to the big boss and I was like, I want $200,000 to work with this dude. He threw mantrums every day. And the big boss like, you know, inside he was. he's laughing at me he's like we ain't paying you that much but uh what he told he was like i get it you know he was like it must be brutal to work with that dude who by the way this dude is still on

the air he's still a racist sack he's just an insecure 60 year old that like hangs out with you know 20 year old girl it's just it's kind of pathetic but i didn't know if they would still use all the music i made or not music but the intro so at the end of every intro i would slide something in that was like way inappropriate but i was like if they ever get here If it ever runs out, which we knew they wouldn't because it was like three minutes long. But all my guys that I hired who all kind of had the same general feelings for, you know, what was happening, I would show them all. I'd be like, look, if it ever get, if you're ever here when I'm gone, I was like, let it get to the end. Let this play.

But that was, Kobe, you can take that out. Actually, I don't care because that dude. I do podcasts and stuff. I criticize them all time. I'm still trying to get a job there. He won't hire me. I know he's scared of me because I'm one of the people, everyone he has around him kisses his ass

because they think he's the ladder to climb to get rich. But what I don't realize, like one dude was like, you know, you don't play the game. You don't kiss his ass and that's what he wants. And I'm like, bro, and he's like, look where it landed you. You got fired in 2017, where they didn't re-up your contract in 2017. And he's still working there. And I go, and where has it gotten you?

You're in a worse position than what? I had hired you. You know, you're making almost no more money. And I'm like, so what? You kissed his ass. You bit your tongue. You become this almost punching bag where they lie to you. You know, they tell you, hey, we're bringing you on here. We're going to get you some more money. And it's just been a facade. So at least, you know, they knew what they were dealing with when they got me. You know, he's in this just predicament where I just told him he's, I think they finally offered him something. I said, I'll be your agent. You know they hate me. Let me go in there as your Asian. I'll hardline him for some cash. He don't want to do it, though. I don't blame him.

What are we going to talk about? Tupac. So that, oh, so listen, YouTube, right? Once Elon Musk bought Twitter, it's validity to get news because before Twitter really, like, they're trending, their hashtags and stuff, were pretty accurate to what was going on, whether it was locally or nationally. And it was great because, like, in a tragedy or in a news situation, you could get this real-time info from people who were maybe on the ground or, you know, it was really like this vital utility that people could use. Once Elon bought it and he fired everyone, it got real funky. And this is the person who I use it daily. And I was using it daily for news or even when I was working radio. You know, you could, I got so many contacts through that, you know, just direct messaging people. because you know that's their account.

They're the person behind it, celebrity, whatever it was. Once he bought it and he gutted everyone, it became this, it was very noticeable, too. It wasn't like, oh, is this real or, you know, what's going on? It just overnight, it almost kind of shot the bed. And it just became this thing where you're like, I can't trust. It's not working like it used to. So I kind of shifted my focus over to YouTube. and YouTube has almost become that replacement.

I don't want to say fully because, again, you know the algorithm works real funny. Right. But if you know what you're searching for, like, for instance, I don't know if you've heard anything about the Tupac death investigation. They raided in Las Vegas, what was it over the summer, they rated this dude, Keefe D, his house in connection to the Tupac shooting. Right. If you don't know the back story. Tell me the backstory. Real quick.

So, Kipidi D got in trouble for drugs or something in 2008. Keefei. His name is a real name? No, no, no. It's Dwayne something. He goes by Keefeed D. Wonder why. Keith goes like Keefee coffee?

I have no idea because his name's like Dwayne. It doesn't even, you know, relate. It's not like, oh, Kifie is short for Dway. And you're just like, how did he get this? But anyway, so he gets busted, I think, for drugs. And part of his deal, again, I don't know all the specifics. I try to follow along as much as I can. But some of these interviews just get hard to watch because you feel like they're more talking

out of ego than sticking to facts and what really happened. Right. So he had a plea deal. And he made a proffer agreement. Right. You know what that is. I was just kind of learning. Yeah, it's a proffer's you basically explain what you did and it's covered under whatever deal you've got.

Yeah, but it's not immunity, right? That's a completely different thing because it's just they can't use what you said against you within those confines. Right. Typically what a proffer has, though, it will typically exclude espionage and violence. like if you come in and say that you know like if you come in and say that you know i murdered somebody or if you come in and say that i stole government secrets or something typically it doesn't it doesn't exclude it typically excludes those types of omission of um admissions not that's so his his proper was detailing uh the murder of tupac okay so he probably didn't

I mean, did he admit during the proffer that he murdered him? No, no, no. There he didn't do it. But he still put himself there. He put himself, I forget, in the front seat of the car. There were four people in the car. He detailed who it was. He detailed that he had the gun that he gave to, you know, his nephew that had shot Tupac.

All the other three people. What? Yeah, yeah, exactly. He did an accessory to murder. Right. Okay. So, but that, so I guess that he was protected from being charged with that, right? then he gets out of prison.

I forget 2014, or this is when he writes his book, 2014 Tales of a Compton Street legend or whatever the book is named. And in it, because this is being repost all over social media, it's really being documented on YouTube, that like he details essentially

the proffer agreement, again, in his book where this is not protected. You know, like they weren't like, oh, if you ever write a book and do, I always thought it was funny because it's like, OJ kind of did the same thing, but OJ did in a fashion where he was like, if I was there, maybe this is how it would have gone down. Because it wasn't his whole book like, if I had committed this crime, I forget the title,

but it was something like a hypothetical. So he never once, like, says like, I was there. Search for the real killer. Shortest book ever written. Was that the title? No, I don't know what it was. No, it was something like where you're like, oh, my God. and he basically details everything

but saying it in like not third person but kind of like this hypothetical of like you know if I had been there that night and if Cato had heard me and if so he did it in this really almost clever way you hate to say it but to profit off it

this dude KPD did not do that and in fact he went on many different platform channels right art of dialogue which is a huge one Vlad TV which is even big I mean some of the biggest YouTubers.

I was not Vlad. I went on Blatt. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, so you and Kiki, he got like a six degree of separation than going. Sounds like a degree of separation. Or no degrees.

Probably the next one in. So he went on Vlad and like, and you can look all this up. He's talking about Tupac. In fact, my feed is like all shorts of the times he talked about the Tupac murder and like, just, No regret.

Very much cold to the fact that this was a beloved icon who spoke for the people. The history of his family is, you know, I can't say enough good day. I love, I love Tupac. And he went on and just ran his mouth for what has it been since 2014. Even in the book, if you read the excerpts, he talks about locking eyes with Shug Knight. I mean, you can't get more specific. You know, he was like, I looked in Shug's eyes and like two bowls. locking horns, the two grams locking horns.

You know, Shug had that look like, oh, no, it's going down. So it's very specific. And you're wondering, like, is he dumb or is he, like, did the ego? Yeah, he feels like he's, he's felt like he's covered. Right? Yeah. But you would figure he must have talked to a lawyer at some point. Maybe.

Maybe. Like, he obviously didn't because of what has happened. You would be shocked how many of. of these idiots talk to their friends. So your friend that works at Walmart told you this is how it works. And then they'll go around telling people, this is how it works?

Why do you think that? Oh, I know. How do you know? Because my friend, Jimmy, that works at Walmart told me. And is Jimmy got a license in law? Was he a prosecutor? Was he no? How does he know?

Well, he's smart. Well, maybe. No, it's the WebMD. It's the diagnosing yourself through WebMD of the law realm or the criminal court. So essentially, he has done all this talking up until this summer. And I think what sparked it, or what people are saying is Tupac's biological father went on, oh, I forget one of the YouTube channels and basically said, like, you know, the cops have known who has done this since the killing.

They've never done anything, and they won't because, you know, Tupac shot off-duty police officers, his family was Black Panthers. And, you know, there's just this long history where they're like, the cops don't care. They know. And then KVD's house gets raided over the summer. And then what was it last week? It was very recent they arrest him in connection with the shooting, the murder of Tupac. And he is being held without bail in Las Vegas.

I guess in Nevada, they can hold you if it's a murder charge. You know, they can request no bail if there's some kind of violent crime. I forget what the specifics are. Again, I don't want to be one of those dudes or claims. I know of a lot. Right. So either way, he's locked up and you don't have bail. Yep.

And everyone's talking about how, or at least YouTube is kind of broken down from the cops. Greg Cating. I think that's his name. There's another police officer, the, the, the chief or the sergeant that was on the bike that held two pye have you heard about tupac's final words no okay so when shug crashed or not crashed the call what was the dispute listen i don't know anything about tupac i have painted two paintings of him really yeah where did we find those are you serious yeah no i'm very serious yeah bro on instagram it's in tupac and you know nothing

about him no i don't know anything about him i mean i saw a movie he was in i saw a movie he was you're not putting all eyes on me when you're painting this double album no I don't know what that is but um no I mean priceless like what is this dude talking about show it yo so wait are you like a

a fine art dealer you paint stuff and I mean I have a degree this is people when I say this but I have a degree in fine arts yes yeah that oh that's all listen I almost went to art school because my buddy's older brother blew glass and it was the most fascinating thing

I'd ever seen the stuff he would make it was mostly bonds and pipes and there was this great school up in Vermont and I wanted to go to the blow glass and someone said something to me and I was like yeah what does that look like in 30 years you know like where does this where does this pan out for me

if I just blow glass up in the mountains of Vermont feel like it does really I don't know. I was young and maybe just thought, like, that will never happen because I was going to art school for in high school, I was taking like these college art classes because they were painting, whatever. Uh-oh.

So I don't think I can play the music. Well, I'll play. Oh, yeah, yeah. Colby will probably have to remove it. He'll be so pissed. That's fine. Don't do it. Don't do it.

You can just show a picture? I can show, well, I can, here, I have a whole, I have a whole video. So this is me. this is that another channel well it's my Instagram and I put up so I put up like I've got stuff of me painting paintings and this is this is this is like an iconic photo of Tupac from what I understand and so that's me I knock it out hold it's almost done it's only a minute so we've been we're about 30 seconds in so have me painting wow so hold that how are you not doing this for a living or are you too i have done this i mean when i first got out of prison this is what i was doing for a living

i was so i would got somebody would order like a painting of tupac and i would paint it and then i'd put it on instagram and then guys would buy the paintings so like all those paintings are and then i'd say hey this is matt and thank you and there's the painting and you know that is from that is wait i got another one i got another one here hold on oh oh no i got music i got get the music here's the I show the picture one more time we'll do one more and this is him with a I actually cut and pasted this one together

I actually put an AK-47 in his hand yeah I was going to say I don't think that's a photo of him no it's a I mean it's a photo it's just a photo of a skinny you know a guy from Africa and Tupac's head superimposed on top of it yeah that's my man he moved to the picture like that

so but somebody asked me yeah I let's like I got the whole thing. It's pretty cool. And that's in that like Warhol style. It's exactly the way. The pop art.

It's pop art. That's the name of my, my, the channel is, um, it's, it's Cox pop art. And so,

you know, how much of those two buck ones? I don't have the money to go. Oh, they were like 11, I just one for like 11, 1,200 bucks. Damn.

Yeah. You make me a small one. All right. They were good. Here's one. Look, here's one I did of, uh,

I, this is, the Joker. Oh, the best Joker ever, right? Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't top that. That series, that... Two of these. I have tons of... I make a bunch of Marilyn Monroe. Mm-hmm. No. Wait, do you only do it in the style of pop art, or do you have other...

Because that's, like, super realistic. Yeah, I got pop... I just do pop art. Here's Biggie. Yeah. Like this one, I got Biggie. Two biggies. I'm about to do two biggies, and then boom. It's so wild to me that you have, like, no... I don't think I had ever heard one of Biggie's songs before somebody told me, hey, bro, can you paint a Biggie? And I was like, a what?

Can you paint one of Biggie with like an AK? And I was like, a what? I was like, big. And I was like, oh, wait, Biggie Smalls. I've heard the name. So he said, yeah, yeah, can you paint? I said, sure, I'll come up with something. So I came up with something.

So wait, then what's your, like, what's your wheelhouse before you were doing the hip hop icons? Um, before that, let's see, when I first got out of prison, I first I was just, they were Marilyn Monroe's and I was painting like bubble gum girls. That's where I was painting bubble gum girls and like, uh, here's one I painted or these guys. I painted like a, uh, there was like a bunch of a stock guy owned a stock broker firm. He'd seen me, right? He'd seen me on concrete and asked me if I would paint a, um, paint some, something for hit the, the, the conference room in his stockbroker firm. And so I painted these three paintings for him. I forget what he paid me, a couple grand or so. They're not very big. And there's,

it's all pop art. Super cool though. Watch. They end up, like they end up looking really. So wait, do you have a gallery online where people can go and purchase this, not to like make a shameless... I mean, I have a...

I have an Etsy account. that looks like Joe Jonas that third dude him that was just out of prison like I don't know who these people are like I just grab some pictures like in a boy band it just looked like and that middle dude kind of looks like

Matthew McConae you know who you look like in those videos so wait that was a few years ago have you ever seen the movie blood in blood out yeah here's super blood in blood out no I don't know yeah it's a movie it's like a very

legendary blood in blood he's a gang movie about the batos locos and you look like the white dude who's who he says I'm a coconut or no no no he said what does he say he's like I'm brown on the outside

white no I'm white on the outside brown on the inside bro because he speaks Spanish and you look like him and that young thing I'll put you in all khakis that was probably 15 pounds lighter then too well it's all that cross bit bro

that no now I'm heavy What are you talking about? I'm heavier now. It's like muscle gains. It's not muscle gain. It's some of it's muscle game. Most of it's just fat. So listen, so the Tupac thing, right?

You have no. Tell me first, first, real quick, tell me first. What is the, what was the beef? There was a beef between him and who. Orlando, the dude that, the dude that shot him that night, which is confirmed by Keefe D. Okay, so what happened?

They went to Vegas to the Tyson, fight, right? The Tyson fight, I guess, like went around. And Tyson, even there's a documentary on Hulu called Dear Mama, which is great because they talk to all the people closest to Pock. They even have his mom before she passed like a lot of footage. They talk to his aunt. And they really go through this meticulously where you can kind of feel like that inner circle. And Tyson talks about how like the fight went so quick that once you're in that atmosphere. And, you know, if you have been to a USC fight, there's electricity, it's testosterone flowing, so they get out of the fight that ended too soon. And you see the video at Tupac when he's leaving. And he's,

you know, being very typical Tupac, you know, talking to Tyson, knocked them out, this, that, the other thing. And when they're in the casino, they point out that there's the dude Orlando Anderson that tried to steal the death row medallion off one of their crew's neck. And Tupac wasn't going to let that happen, even though he, you know, at that point, he's Tupac, you know, don't get, don't get involved. There's other people that can do that stuff where you. And he goes over and they jump him and there's the infamous security footage of, you know, Pock doing whatever in the fight. It was just, it was really, really just didn't need to happen. But you feel like fate ordained this.

So, of course, this guy, Orlando Anderson, is a south side crypt, I believe. You know, he's high, it becomes a gang thing very quickly. And backstory to that, the reason he was trying to take the death row medallion allegedly, I'm going to just say that, allegedly, is they said, puff daddy, P. Diddy, whatever he goes by now, was the one who said, you know, 10 grand to whoever can get me a death row medallion. So that's kind of where the East Coast, West Coast thing also gets inflated a little bit because Pete Diddy had some beef with whatever. So after that fight, Tupac and them jump this gang related member. They leave. There's a lot more to the story too. That's why I highly encourage because it's just a fascinating,

really sad tragedy that happened. But there's so many moving parts to it. Like he didn't have his security. He didn't have his bulletproof vest on. You see that infamous last photo of Tupac and Shug in the car before they leave. That was like minutes before you. he was killed. And when they leave, they just so happen to pull up next to the, you know, that crew of gang members where Keefe D is in the front seat. He said this. This is not a legend anymore. He's put it in writing. He's been on YouTube and or whether KVD and his car found a Pock. I don't know how it happened, but they end up next to each other. Shots ring out. Shug speeds away. And the rest is unfortunately hip-hop history where Pock is.

is shot up, I forget, how many times? A lot, though. And the story with the chief of police who was on a bike that night, patrolling, you know, there's a Tyson fight, so he's got to be very accessible, mobile, you know, so he's not in the car because Vegas Strip is just weird. You can't get around. He rides up very unaware of what just happened, you know,

because I guess they had made it to the strip at this point. And he pulls up with his gun, everybody get out, everybody gets out of the car, but Pock, not knowing that Pock was shot, doesn't get out of the car. So he approaches the car, opens the door, and I guess Pock kind of, you know, falls to the ground. And the chief goes to pick him up, and he's like, hey, who did this to you? And he tells this story on YouTube. That's why it's like so compelling because you're listening to a guy who had the final moment speaking with Pock.

And when he goes, who did this to you? He describes it so vividly. He's like, I could tell Pock was trying to gather his last breath. you know he's like gurgling there's blood everywhere he's shot up really bad and i'm holding him saying who did this to you who shot you and pock gets the last brother goes f you and he said then his eyes are all back and he was just unconscious so pock was just real to the end you know but these everybody kind of knew you know once the the chips fell where they were right and then you get to today where

27 years later there's an arrest made and it came from, that's why I thought it was fascinating to ask you your thoughts because this is a dude who was there, the police knew he had an agreement and

ended up talking himself into a jail cell which I don't know what evidence they have and how much they'll use of YouTube and his book against him but this could, he's 60 years old This could end up, what, for him being a life sentence, correct?

I'm sure. So possibly it's, if, you know, if he's been saying, like, he gave him the gun, like, he obviously knew he was going to fire the gun and shoot Tupac. Like, if he's saying, look, you know, like, I was holding the gun because, you know, for whatever reason, or I handed him my gun or he asked me for a gun, I gave it to him. We saw Tupac. We knew that, you know, like, that's going to be, that's going to be, you know, conspiracy to commit murder, you know, you're, you're definitely in the conspiracy. So, you know,

you can get as much time as the guy who actually pulled the trigger. But let's say even if he pleads guilty to 20 years or, you know, whatever it is, like you're dying. There's about a 95% chance you're dying in prison because you've got to rely on medical to keep you alive. And what do you think like, so will they be able to take? This is my question because on YouTube. Technically, you can get away. It's just like Fox News, right? They technically, when you look it up, they claim to be an entertainment organization. That's how they get away with saying certain things under the guise of Fox News. Right. You know, so they're not held liable. I forget what, there was like some case where they were somebody was suing them to be held liable and they were

like, no, we're entertainment. You know, like these are opinion pieces. They're not true news. It's, yeah, look into this. It's fascinating at how they can position their media coverage of things as entertainment so you're not truly supposed to be reporting on facts it's wild you know and being in the media for so long you also had to be very careful of like how that's why i'll always say like allegedly or whatever because you don't want it to come back but i'm saying entertainment you're probably you're more you're more liable you know if you're saying it's news and you're say i'm just presenting the news i'm just presenting what you know what I mean right right they're saying it's a very skewed like if that

was the news there are very easily disprovable things or the way they omit it's almost like lying by omittance you know where it's like you just take this small segment and kind of present it as a fact so that's why with entertainment if you do that just like my youtube channel it's like satire and sarcasm you can kind of go anywhere well that youtube allows they'll rip whatever they want off YouTube. But that's why I was wondering with this dude, Kee FD, is that going to be, could he even try that as an argument? I guess not because he wrote it in a book, but all these interviews, could he try to? If they present it, look, whatever they feel comfortable presenting to a jury, right? You present to a jury that he wrote this. I got a, I got a interview of him

saying this. I've got, you know, we've got the footage. We've got, um, you know, the, we've got, um, the chief of police saying this we've got you know all these bystanders saying this we've got they probably have one or two other people saying that he told them this he was drinking one night told me this he told his celly his celly stands up and says man he admitted it to me he told me this like these guys don't do things like this and not tell 50 people right like you know go on youtube and tell a million right so it's like this is something that's not and so for him did them turn around and say, hey, this was just entertainment. I was just saying it so that I could, so that Vlad would pay me $1,000 to come on his show and tell the story. I was just doing it

for entertainment. It's certainly, okay, that's fine. I get it. And I understand that. But you understand it was presented as being true. Right, right. So we're going to charge you. And you can tell the jury that and explain that to the jury. And maybe the jury believes you. Yeah. Well, but I present everything. The nail in the coffin, though, is like his book, I believe, is an auto biagra. I think he published it himself. You know what I mean? Like, he was like, these are my stories. This is my life.

Right. You don't, you can't wiggle out of that one as like, no, no, no, it was meant to be entertainment. That's why I thought when OJ did it, it was very clever, as heinous as it was, that he presented it in this, like, fairy tale of, like, how I would imagine this went down. And then it's like, find details of, you know, it's specifically what happened. Yeah, it's funny because I'll do that sometimes in an article. I'll say something like, you know, look, like, like, I don't know that this is what happened. But based on, you know, based on everything that I've read, this is how I imagine it happened.

And then I'll do, you know, and I'll throw one or two. Like, I don't get too explicit. Like you can only say so much. Like if you say, I can imagine that Blaine stepped into the first class cabin. ordered his favorite drink, and I know what his favorite drink was, you know, wearing one of his famous, you know, Buchachi suits or whatever the suit, his favorite suit was, you know, and flew to Perth and got off the, and by the time he got off the plane, he'd been indicted, you know, all of that's kind of magical, right? Like, it's like I'm painting a scene based on things I know, but nobody told me that's what happened. Like, I don't know he was wearing that suit. I don't know that he ordered that, that drink. You know what I'm saying? But I can say that based on the things that I know about him, this is probably how went down well and that's like the clever way to present right to paint to paint a paint something but this guy is not saying that this guy is saying i got in the car well he's like detailing what the look shug gave that's where i'm like bro these were like when you watch any does he maybe he's never

seen a crime drama show or any documentary on youtube because they're like oh the suspect new details nobody else knew and i'm like bro you're writing them you're printing them in a book and publishing it for the world to read you know so that's i don't know i think that was like the nail that couldn't let i don't know we'll see right because he's going to go to court they're holding them they already had i don't i don't understand with the grand jury thing they already had a grand jury because they were listing some of the people that were speaking to the grand jury so that was just to present this so they could arrest him correct or yeah that's just to say is there even enough evidence for us to bring the charges it's very unlikely that after after a grand jury

has been convened and agreed that there is enough evidence to bring the charges that they would drop the charges. At this point, they're going to move forward. You're either going to take a plea or we're going to move forward and go through because they very, they almost never, if a grand jury was shown the evidence and says, I think this is probably enough to convict them, then they're going to go through a trial at this point. It's like a 99.99% chance they're going to go. Unless something super compelling. Let's his lawyer comes in and says, listen, bro, here's his alibi. He wasn't there.

We have him here. This is what. And it would have to be like super. You know, they say, look, obviously he was lying because we've got this alibi. He was taking money out of his ATM. We've got photos of him. We've got. He's just a pathological liar.

Like unless that happens, which isn't the case in this, I understand. But I'm saying, lest they came forward and presented some overwhelming evidence that they would be like, wow, we can't go to trial. There's no way. he's going to present this evidence and it's not like his mom's going to say he was at home watching the game you know watching the fight with her so he couldn't have done it you know that's not they're going to be like yeah okay well mom can come say that on the stand then well they already had what the first deal hearing or something about bail and I guess his lawyer didn't

even show up they were like oh it was last minute so he couldn't show but I think that's a little telling you know this is a huge I don't know how you could miss that this is coming up you know unless you're living under a rock and for his lawyer to not agree there I was like Oh, man, we might see somebody quit from this case. Maybe not. You should watch because, so what is it? Law and Crime YouTube channel, they're playing a lot of this stuff. I don't know if it's real time or like, you know, when they do a press conference.

I wish Sheriff Grady would. Can they send him out to do, is that out of his? A picture of him out. This guy. You're not going to believe this guy. Yo, he should They should be able to, I don't know It's like out of his district or authority

But she wrote a book on it To be able to rent him out so he could do all the press conferences Because that dude is ruthless We wish all criminals were this stupid I would love each criminal out there That's done something this stupid To write a book and put it on Amazon You know what he would do

That sheriff would read the excerpt from his book To start that That would be so hilarious. Oh, well, so the Law and Crime Network is, you know, basically playing everything that's going all. They are very in rhythm, in step with anything that's being broadcast on this Tupac thing. Probably because it's, you know, all of the viral trending stuff, but you should, if they, I don't know if they'll allow cameras in the court or, you know, how that goes from state to state, you should do a live stream. and watch that thing go down, break down these moves, and especially with like the stupidity of, like, this evidence is going to be hilarious, right?

If they're bringing in YouTube experts, if they're playing clips from Vlad TV and they're like, you know, here is the evidence. It's an interview. It's a part from his book. I mean, is that not going to be hilarious? Has there ever been a case that has gone down like this where like YouTube is the biggest? You know what's so funny about that is that there's tons of? of guys that will say like, you know, Vlad is a fucking CI or Vlad is the police.

Like they always say that because apparently people have gone on his channel before and they've been indicted. Like they'll go on and start talking about some murder or being somewhere and they get indicted. Like they're a big guy. Are you serious? Oh, absolutely. So this isn't going to. So for Vlad, like this is not good at all. There's already a whole slew of people that are that can't stand them because they're like, Vlad be the police.

man, Vlad's the police. He's been, you know, they'll say it in the comments and all kinds of stuff. Oh yeah. Well, you better believe what I'm doing later is writing that in the comments. I can't believe that this has happened before and people still, maybe they have no idea what his channel is, but the fact that they're still going on there and talking to him like he's Oprah is incredible. You should read the comments on my, on my Vlad comments. I've one too so bad though. They're, they're vicious. These guys did not like, like, like some of them were like this guy's a genius and the other ones just hated my guts yeah but i guarantee you if you click on any of their bios they got one subscriber been a youtube for 10 years and they have you know

just a million comments no videos listen it's easy if you're watching you're still a fan you know that's true whether they hate you or love me or love me as long as you're watching as long as you leave a like subscribe hit the little bell right in the corner right under here make sure hey that's the truth But I'm telling you, if some people blow you off for interviews and that court case is going on, you should be live stream and have the little thing in the corner and just commenting, because this is going to be outside of it, you know, finally bringing some justice and some closure to a 27-year-old case that I think everybody in the world is at least somewhat knowledge, you know what I mean? Like you're aware that the way Tupac's life ended. But the fact that the last

dude living in that car talked his way into a jay i mean this dude was living free doing interviews incriminating himself but just living off i'm guessing doing interviews i don't think he had a job you know he wasn't working down at the croaker or whatever they got in Vegas you know he wasn't back in your groceries this dude was you know live in a life and if you seen the footage when they did the raid he had a nice hot like it's confusing I don't know why he would do it, but here we are. Yeah, probably just thought it's so old, so old, nobody cares. They're not going to put it together.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't. And probably thought, you know, I say this all the time. It's the guy that goes to the police and says, listen, man, I know about these guys robbing banks. Really? How do you know? I've been driving the getaway car. They're like, so you've been robbing banks.

No, no, I'm just driving the getaway car. No, no. Let me explain conspiracy to you while I slip these handcuffs on you. Yeah, it is wild. We got to figure out what's the term for like the WebMD diagnosis for criminals that think, you know, well, my buddy says that you can't get in trouble because X, Y, Z. Yeah. Probably what it was.

I have so many people that tell me like, you know, that will tell me about prison. No, you can get parole. Though they parole you after doing 30% of your time. You don't know what you're talking about. I'm like, wait a second, bro. I understand that you're stocking shelf somewhere, you know, and I get it. You know, God bless you. Like, like middle class America, like, thank you for doing your part.

You're what makes this country run. I'm not knocking you. But if I need someone to drive a forklift, like you're my guy. But just because you watched a lot of law and order, guess what? There is no parole in the federal system. Now, prior to 1986, after doing one third year time in prison, you were eligible for parole. You would go in front of the parole board, and they would say, okay, you have done three years on a nine-year sentence. So you're eligible for parole, and you would plead your case, and they would say, okay, you've done a bunch of programming, you've got a wife and kid out there, we know you messed up, you have no criminal history.

We're going to give you parole, and they put you on parole. but after 1986 there is no federal parole so these guys that say oh we got 10 years well in a couple years they'll put him on parole no he went in the federal system now some states still have parole system there's difference between the state systems every single system is different every single state system is different and the federal system so people don't realize that they'll be like oh you got to do 90% of your time for violent crimes this guy's lying no now maybe if you're in Nevada you see what I'm saying like it maybe in your state that's how it works or maybe if you're in in this state maybe if you're on Rhode Island you do you know two fists of your time if you but this guy went to the federal system where this guy was in Georgia or this guy was like people and listen they'll argue with you they'll call you a piece of shit liar you're a scumbag this guy's a liar you can't believe anything he says and it's like bro look at how angry you are right you really think that you know something because your older brother went to jail for 18 months

and he knows how it works you might want to ask him how does it work in the federal system or hey Bubba guess you know I know you were in you did state time in Ohio what about Florida he'll probably say I don't know how it works in Florida yeah and they'll be like I spent two hours arguing with someone on Cox's channel you can't do it don't do it but there's people People are going to do that, though. Yeah, because they had a 10-minute conversation with somebody, now they're an expert. Or I'm telling you, that's the other thing that's misleading about YouTube. How many people are doing these?

I don't want to say true crime, but like you, when you were saying, you had got out, and true crime has always been a hit since podcast existed day one. Right. But mostly what I noticed started that bad was like these NPR people. that you know like they came from this like totally different background but they wanted to examine these cases and they maybe talked to secondhand knowledgeable people and that's really what the true crime was or they were ripping it from the headlines and just kind of reading as they went so that false illusion of like people who think or maybe Googled something that they knew how it

worked differing from you're like no listen I lived it and I know people who lived it and I know people who lived it and this is actually how it's working because that 1986 you should be doing videos like that breaking down the laws that's important stuff man i'm not trying to i'm trying to make money not do important stuff um so what's it you know that that danny um mastersen yeah yeah you know guys are out there prison guys talking about how how like you know he'll get smashed and he's this and he's going to this and he's going to that and all of that is probably is true like In, in, you know, in a state prison in California, he's probably going to have a hard time or they're going to put them in protective custody.

Yeah, that's what I mean, right? Yeah, yeah, he'll still have a hard time. But eventually he'll probably just put, they'll put money on some guys' books and they'll protect him and he'll be okay. But, but, you know, guys like I would talk, if I'll do TikToks or something, they'll take a little excerpt out of a two-hour interview. They'll take like a one-minute excerpt. And guys will say, and I'll talk about, you know, the, the, you know, I'm going to call them SOs, the SOs in prison, right, or, you know, the Chomos, you know, in prison and how, yeah, yeah, you know, this guy said this guy, that's a lie because they don't mix with other people and they

know, this guy's piece of go. He's flying and he's, it's like, no, no, I was in most low security camps or low security prisons in federal prison, about 40 and 50% of the people that are there have SO charges. And there's so many of them that you can, the inmates will restrict them a little bit, but not completely. Like a lot of inmates will be like, look, you can't be in the, you can't watch TV. You can't be in the TV room. They'll set the boundaries. Yeah. And they'll try. But what happens is if you have 2,000 people and a thousand of them, or 800 are SOs, and one day they say, hey, we're going to go walk the track. What are you going to do? The first of all, you guys are really, think about it, all these guys are segregated. You've got like the, the blacks will have

five different gangs. The whites will have two gangs. The, the Hispanics will have, you know, one gang. You know, it's like, it breaks it up. It's like, you know, you guys can't even get together really you can't really do anything we're at a low most of you guys are close to home most you guys do not want to go anywhere yeah so they'll just let them do what they kind of like what you know they'll bitch and moan they'll call them names but they won't really do anything if you say that there will be guys in the comment section who will be calling me a liar and that's not true and why because your cousin went to prison in in in Arizona you went to an Arizona state prison he wasn't a federal prison it wasn't like they're all different it's weird

On that, because you were just talking about the division in the prisons. And I know you always say, what is it, we might have the numbers, but they got the, they got the prisons and the chains and the barbed wire. Why do you think they love having those gangs in the prisons? Because if they're so busy, divided, fighting against each other, it's the same thing like what you would just describe it. If these gangs could form some kind of rainbow coalition like the Black Panthers won it back in the 70s where they said it doesn't matter your color, I want everybody to join together because then you really have the numbers. I mean, the guards quickly become outnumbered and they can make some demands or movements. They need a prisoner organization like a union to get their demands met, you know? The moment somebody tries to organize, they get shipped.

trust me they're they're not stupid they're monitoring everything look it's the same thing with TVs they can they'll never take TVs out of prison you hear I'll hear people they should take TVs out of prison they should listen bro those TVs are babysitters the moment they shut the TVs off and they say you guys lost the TVs for the next week it lasts about three days and then the cops are like we're giving you the TVs back you guys have been good we're going to be no the truth is now we're a problem yeah there's no there's no babysitter for us to sit there and just there at the box now you guys the numbers, the power. Yeah, they don't like that. Hey, I appreciate you guys watching the video.

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