Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Top 10 Julian Dorey & Matt Cox Moments

Episode Date: April 21, 2026

A compilation of standout moments shows how Julian Dorey and Matt Cox turned chaotic stories, failures, and unlikely conversations into a platform that not only changed their own lives but ended up impacting and inspiring others in unexpected ways. ⁣ ⁣ Julian's links - ⁣ https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@JulianDorey⁣ https://linktr.ee/Juliandorey⁣ ⁣ Do you want to be a guest? Fill out the form https://www.insidetruecrimepodcast.com/apply-to-be-a-guest⁣ ⁣ Go to GoodRanchers.com and use code INSIDE to get free meat for life, plus $25 off your first order.⁣ ⁣ Send me an email here: [e-mail]⁣ ⁣ Do you extra clips and behind the scenes content?⁣ Subscribe to my Patreon: https://patreon.com/InsideTrueCrime ⁣ ⁣ Check out my Dark Docs YouTube channel here -⁣ https://www.youtube.com/@DarkDocsMatthewCox⁣ ⁣ Follow me on all socials!⁣ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetruecrime/⁣ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@matthewcoxtruecrime⁣ ⁣ ⁣ Do you want a custom painting done by me? Check out my Etsy Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/coxpopart⁣ ⁣ Listen to my True Crime Podcasts anywhere: https://anchor.fm/mattcox ⁣ ⁣ Check out my true crime books! ⁣ Shark in the Housing Pool: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0851KBYCF⁣ Bent: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BV4GC7TM⁣ It's Insanity: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08KFYXKK8⁣ Devil Exposed: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TH1WT5G⁣ Devil Exposed (The Abridgment): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1070682438⁣ The Program: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0858W4G3K⁣ Bailout: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bailout-matthew-cox/1142275402⁣ Dude, Where's My Hand-Grenade?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BXNFHBDF/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1678623676&sr=1-1⁣ ⁣ Checkout my disturbingly twisted satiric novel!⁣ Stranger Danger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSWQP3WX⁣ ⁣ If you would like to support me directly, I accept donations here:⁣ Paypal: https://www.paypal.me/MattCox69⁣ Cashapp: $coxcon69⁣ ⁣ CHAPTERS: ⁣ 05:00 - Growing Up, College & Not Knowing the Path⁣ 10:00 - Wall Street Reality & Creative Misalignment⁣ 18:00 - Walking Away From a Stable Career⁣ 25:00 - Early Hustles & Rejections ⁣ 35:00 - The Spark to Start⁣ 45:00 - Going All-In⁣ 55:00 - Building the Podcast ⁣ 1:10:00 - Early Episodes, Mistakes & Finding a Style⁣ 1:25:00 - Delusion, Confidence & Betting on Yourself⁣ 1:45:00 - Wild Guest Stories & Podcast Chaos Behind the Scenes⁣ 2:00:00 - Impact on Listeners & Unexpected Life Changes⁣ 2:10:00 - Controversial Guests, Backlash & Tough Decisions⁣ 2:20:00 - Redemption Stories & Why the Podcast Matters⁣ 2:30:00 - Full Circle Moments Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Julian, I have to have you. you on my show. I had a crackhead in here yesterday. The bar is low. The guy's like nodding out and I'm looking over at Colby. Michael's in there and we're just like this. As Red Shea would say, rat his way out of fucking prison. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in South Jersey. Okay. Loved it. Great time. I grew up in a town called West Dept, which you did not see. I was there. It's about 10 minutes outside Philly right there.

And spent the first 10, 11 years of my life there. Great town kind of had a little bit of everything there, amazing place to grow up. And then I ended up in Mollah Cahill, which you did see. And that was that. Why'd you move from one place to the other? I mean, my dad got an unbelievable deal. He basically got to triple the size of his house for an extra 50 grand.

So that was the move. And then where'd you go to school? Like high school? Yeah. So high school I went to Archmere, which was just over, I think you went over the Commodore Barry Bridge with me. So it was right over the Commodore Barry Bridge on the edge of Pennsylvania and Delaware. Fun fact, Hunter Biden went there. Oh.

Yeah. Where is he was doing in the bathrooms? But I can't confirm or deny it was a long time before I was there. And so you graduate there and you, where do you go to college? I went to a school in the middle of nowhere in PA All this is important, by the way. Yeah, I don't think I've ever said any of this on camera, so you're getting it.

I went to a school in the middle of nowhere in PA called Bucknell. Really fun time, like around 4,000 kids there, so everyone kind of knew everyone, but fucking awesome time. And I fully understand why a lot of people these days have serious issues with, like, college education, and the value of it, not being there and all that. I think I was really, really lucky.

I mean, I had a great, years. I had unbelievable professors, felt like I learned a lot. And it's like, college can't prepare you for the real world. That's not their job. I kind of take issue with that when people think that's what it is. It's kind of like it should, in the best scenario, in my opinion, be teaching you the language to be able to speak to go out there and figure it out for yourself. And I feel like at Bucknell, I really got that. And it definitely, you know, I didn't know anything about myself that I should have known, like, when I left school about what I really wanted to do with my life or what I should be doing with my life. But I think when I later figured that out, a lot of that had to do with just kind of the background I'd gotten in Bucknell and then, you know, regular old life experience.

Okay. I always kind of think that if nothing else, college at least lets future employers know that you can set a goal and achieve it. You get through four years of school. You know what I'm saying? Equamentally, one course at a time. At least he can do that. Like that, that's it, you know, the, at the lowest level, at least we know he can, he can achieve, he can achieve it. Right. Because most people can't. So when you graduate, what do you get your degree in? It was, the official name of it was like global management, which was just really a fancy name for management. We did learn a lot about, like, how multinational corporations work.

That's why it called it that way. And that actually was good because that taught me about a lot about group think. and things that I understand now about why corporations go so bad. Like there was a lot we learned in school. That's a whole separate conversation. But I majored in that. So I was in the business school there. And then I was like, like I was saying it,

I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do with my life on the way out. And this was totally my fault. I had kind of always lived my life and maybe part of this was being an only child to where whatever was put in front of me next, like you talk about like, go achieve. I would just look at that, like a squirrel. looking at a fucking nut on the ground and being like, all right, good, I'll do that. And I never thought about why I was doing what I was doing or what I was really interested in and all that. So when I was coming out of college, I had no idea what the fuck I wanted to do. So I'm like,

well, you're supposed to go get a respectable job. All right, what's a respectable job? Something in business. That's what you major in. Okay, let's do that. Oh, look. And I applied to fucking literally 350 places. Among those places was, only actually a few of them was for like Wall Street. and I didn't know what the fuck I would do on Wall Street, but my buddy at college, one of the places I applied to, was where his dad worked, and his dad and I got along well. And I think I had applied to something different at first over there

that didn't have to do with his dad, and then his dad was like, wait, I want you to work for me. And to this day, Larry is like, my guy, love that dude. So he ran a private banking team at Merrill, which I knew a little bit about that, but you can't really know how it works until you get fully into it. it. And, you know, I was like, all right, let's go do this. And I was like, I guess my life is

going to be on Wall Street or whatever. And then I started putting on a suit every day. And I'm like, this feels a little off, you know, isn't exactly the cutoff South Jersey kid, if you will. But maybe that was a part of growing up. And so I just kind of kept doing it. And then I really got familiar with how banks work, especially today. And I put it to you this way. You pretty much have to ask permission for toilet paper after you take a shit at a bank. And it's also, more importantly, a place where, with all the restrictions and everything as well, and just the nature of the work, it's where creativity goes to die. And so I had never, as dumb as this sounds now, and it to this day, it sounds very dumb to me. I'd never got in touch with the fact that my

whole life was based on creativity. Like, that's what I was. I could look at every pathway and every interest I'd ever had, and it was always something in the arts or something that involved, like, really putting ideas together and making something new out of nothing. And I'm like, well, shit, none of that happens at a bank. You fucking walk in there, and the office space looks like it's where ideas go to die. I mean, the cubicles are lined up in gray, like in fucking fours, like facing each other. The chairs and desks look like they're from 1998. The computers are literally Windows 98. And, you know, there's the same fucking fours. five old people over there that have been sitting at that desk for 32 years and they don't

know shit about fuck and you're like wow this is probably a little bit soul crushing but it pays the bills not much matt so with wall street it could when you say the term wall street that can mean literally 700 things that's probably a low estimate actually like it can mean a lot of different things so i'll explain what it meant for private banking investment as i was in so So the private bank and investment group at Merrill Bank of America, which is owned by Bank of America, was for ultra high net worth individuals, meaning individual teams like my boss, like he built a business from scratch over 30 years, managed people that were like his average net worth was like 80 million. That's what he was managing. And then in turn, he would basically be like their quarterback if they owned big, largely large private businesses or even public companies. He would go in and deal with 10b5-1 plans, which is like options and things like that if they had to sell it into the markets.

And then even something as simple as like a 401k plan, which is basically just an excuse to get access to the company. But, you know, we would do all these things. And in that business, it's all eat what you kill. There comes a point in life when you realize you need to be more intentional about what you're eating every day. That's actually why I started using good ranchers. Good ranchers partners with local American farms and ranchers to deliver 100,000. 100% American meat straight to your door. No imports, no guessing where it came from, just real, high-quality meat you can trust. And I'll be honest, once I started getting their deliveries,

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So when you are someone coming in from college and you're learning under like a master like Larry was. Basically the first four to five years, he's not paying you. The company pays you, and then he just gets to put you to work and teach you the ways things go. But those first four or five years, you can pay your bills. Like you can pay your rent. I mean, my place had an oil leak above my bed. It wasn't great, but I had a roof over my head. So that was something. But you don't really make any money. You're wearing a suit that's a knockoff from Joseph A. Bank and trying and act like it's something better, but it's not. Everyone knows that.

And if you do a really good job at the end of four or five years, they'll be like, all right, here's the offer. Now you're in the inner sanctum. And that is what happened. So Larry eventually made that offer to me in late summer 2019. It was an extremely generous offer beyond really what he should offer me, to be honest with you. But I was like, I took the week because it was, you know,

I think it was like August, so, you know, I was like, took like a vacation week, if you will, like four or five days, went down the shore to like actually think about it. But I knew. I was like, I can't do this because, number one, I could have technically said yes and stayed there for two extra years and collected a lot of money basically and then left, which would be a disloyal-ass thing to do to Larry. It's just completely wrong because he was really bringing me, like I said, into the inner sanctum with the offer, like full on and through. but obviously I'm never going to do that. So I'm like, there's no way I could ever take this. And I think at that point, he kind of saw that coming, which, you know, was tough for him because we got along so well. I mean, that was the best part about working there.

Like, I liked that part. I liked working with him. I liked going out and doing some of the fun stuff with him, but the banking stuff. Yeah, but I only go so far. Yeah, it just didn't do it for me, you know? And so I said no to him. And then I was like, well, fuck, I got to figure out life. And, you know, here we are.

today. How old were you? 26. So what was, so what was, did you stay there? Did you say, look, I'm not going to, I can't work here anymore. Or do you stay there until you figured something out? Here's what happened. Are you, are you, are you, is it on purpose? I'm just wondering, I'm just wondering. It's a little like habit sometimes. I feel like we have the kind of talk. You got, he's got a little little in the details to them over here. I forgot about that. But, you know, yeah, so that was late summer 2019. And then when I said no, Larry said to me, he's like, you know, so what do you want to do?

And I said, well, you know, I've had these side LLCs with my buddy, Mitch and Mike, which he knew about doing like a lot of marketing work and creative work and some media work. We had done some stuff like this as well, which that's a separate story. But I had started to realize like, ooh, enjoy this. Like, this is great. And I'm like, obviously I'm not going to go full time to that. It was just like a bullshit side hustle. But I'm like some of the things that I did there, I can integrate and go into like marketing in the city and kind of start over. He's like, all right, tell you what, the company's paying you.

You're working for me. You're doing great work like on the back end stuff. I know you don't like it. But while you're figuring shit out, why don't you stay here so you can pay your bills? It gets the shit done for me as well. It's a win-win. And if I can help you at all, get to one of these other. industries, I will, which was extremely nice of him. And so that's what I did. And Matt, I was literally,

I had no expectations. I was willing to completely start from scratch. I was applying to jobs that paid $38,000 a year in New York City. Like social media managers, like the lowest, whatever. I'm like, I'll just prove myself. I don't care. And even with that, like sometimes I would talk to these recruiters who would take a liking to me and we'd get along. And they'd be like, wow, I really like you. here's the problem. When I get like a 22-year-old out of college with a marketing degree, and I take it to some of my clients, meaning on companies, they know exactly where to put that person. When I bring someone who's like 25, 26 from banking, your resume looks great, but they're like, wait, where do I put this? And they put you off to the side because it's too much for them to think about for entry-level jobs.

Like, that's just kind of how it was. And so I was having a lot of trouble getting my feet, like, into the doorway anywhere. And I knew it was going to be a humbling experience. It was, even more humbling than I even thought, which was pushing it. And so first thing that happened was, so that was the end of summer I started that process all throughout the fall and getting my ass kicked on the job trail, having trouble getting my foot in the door. And then January, my buddy Ty, he had a, he, he's a successful real estate guy, but he was like a semi-pro lacrosse player, so he's got a company. Is it 2020, 2019? This is January 2020. Okay. He's got a company on the side where he trains young, like, high school and middle school lacrosse players who are all really talented.

And so he's like, hey, I'm doing this big event at this indoor arena, like a training camp for a day. It was going to be January 26, 2020. And, you know, at the end of it, I'd love to do like a half hour interview on camera and you do it. you interview me. And Ty had made like a couple mistakes in college with like errors in judgment and stuff like that. And he's like, I want to talk about all that shit. I think it's important because it's a good example for the kids. I was like, all of it. He's like, all of it. Like, all of it. Like, all right. Cool. We'll do it. So my buddy was getting married the night before and I was in the wedding. We go out. We get hammered. Next day, I come back to my parents' house because this was,

this shoot was going to be in South Jersey. And I'm like, all right, let me just like, go hit the elliptical or something, like sweat it out. So I sweat it out. I get off the elliptical. I'm feeling a little better. I'm about ready to leave. And text comes through. Kobe Bryant just died. I was like, whoa. And you remember, like, when that story broke, it was like, holy shit. Because then there was a time where they thought his entire family had died with him, too. And Kobe was a Philly guy. Obviously, I grew up a huge basketball fan. So this was like, you know, usually you see a celebrity death or whatever, and you're like, that's really sad, you know, and your day kind of goes on. This one was a little, this was different. It was just particularly,

tragic. His daughter, Gianna dying with him, like the whole bit. And so I hop over to this camp. It's like 4 o'clock. He goes through the whole day with it. And at like 9 o'clock, they had all the big lights like this and we sit down and we do this

interview. And I don't notice it because a lot of the kids had left, but there were like 30, 35 people that stuck back. And it was all dark because the lights were on us, so I didn't really see them. But when we wrapped it at the end, and then all the lights came on in the place. People like started clapping. They're like, holy shit. And a bunch of

people were coming up to me like, bro, do you have a podcast? I'm like, I'm not a fucking podcast. They're like, you need a fucking podcast. Holy shit. And I had heard this before. And my reaction was always that. Like, what the fuck am I going to do with a podcast? Well, I want to hear my podcast. Right. But again, I'm at a weird point in my life. It was a weird day because, you know, this whole time I'm just going to stand there. I'm thinking about like, God damn, Kobe Bryant really just really gone like this is crazy and so i had i was living up in north jersey at the time still and so i had an hour 40 minute drive from there up and i just drove in silence i'm at this crossroads i'm getting my ass kicked on the job trail i don't know what to do with my life feel like i'm at

square zero and i just had this dumb thought where i was like well if i did a podcast i'd have to do it right like studio all the right equipment all this shit i don't know about and it would It would need to be like legit from day one. No plan, no thought that I'm actually going to go do this, but it was just like this random, like, fuck it. And so over the next month, I made it like my once-a-week hobby on Saturday is to go over to B&H in Fairfield, New Jersey. And like learn a B&H photo, which is where we've got all this equipment from. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So B&H has a location. Obviously the flagship ones in New York City, but then they had one right by me in Fairfield, New Jersey. I would go over there, learn all the equipment, go home, watch YouTube videos on that Saturday night about it, you know, take notes and Google Docs. And in the meantime, I started getting my foot in the door at a couple job opportunities. So this is like a side kind of thing. Now, my dumb ass decides on maybe March 3rd or March 4th, 2020, to hit the enter button on ordering a bunch of this equipment I had learned about.

And I can't remember what the exact price was, but it had to be like $8, $9,000. dollars. It was all the money I had effectively. Like, I didn't have any savings. Like, this was the money in my bank account. I had the money for rent for like the next two months. And I had that. And if you remember, I'm still working on Wall Street. So March 3rd, March 4th, shit is starting to hit the fan in the marketplace. Like, people are like, what the fuck is this COVID thing? Like, the Dow's taking a shit. The S&P's taking the shit. So I'm in it at work. Like, it's all hands on deck because I'm still working there, you know, our clients are concerned, whatever. And so Friday, March 13th, the first day they told us to not come into the office, I get a notification that says, like,

from Amazon, like, your equipment has arrived downstairs. And I'm like, oh, my God, the world is ending. All my job opportunities I told you about just dried up in one second. I totally forgot my dumb ass ordered all this equipment with money that I really now don't have. Holy shit. So I go down, I get the equipment. I bring it upstairs to my couch. And I step back from the couch. And I don't know how long this was.

Could have been 30 seconds. Could have been 60 seconds. Definitely wasn't a half hour or anything like that. But I'm looking at this equipment just like this. And again, like there's literally, there was an oil leak like above that couch too. And I'm just reminded of like the square zeroness of my. life at this time. But I'm like, Julian, you have done a lot of stupid, stupid shit in your life. And I'm just starting to like run through those things in my head. This is without a doubt the

stupidest shit you've ever done. Like you now have no money. The world is ending. And this fucking retarded podcast equipment sitting on your couch that, you know, what are you going to do now? And there was this, like I said, 30, maybe 60 seconds where I look at it. And then I was just like, well, I guess I got to go for it. And so right then I started going all in on this, didn't tell anyone about it. And then I got two phone calls and I can never remember which one came first, but they were both equally important. One of them was from my boss, Larry, who I had told him, maybe two weeks before the pandemic, I said, Larry, I'm getting close on job opportunities. So no matter what, I'm going to leave on March 31st.

Thank you for all this. I'm going to leave. If I don't have the job locked down right then, I'll go down to South Jersey and my parents for a couple weeks just to get it all locked in. And then I'll be back up here in a new place. Probably. It's like, okay, whatever you want. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon And stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk Habaniero?

More like Habinier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. So he calls me up and he goes, I take it all your job opportunities, just dried up. And I was like, yes. I don't tell them about the podcast stuff. He's like, okay. If you remember at this time,

they were still saying like two weeks to flatten the curve. Oh, yeah, yeah. So he's like, listen. And, you know, I don't think we're going back into the office until the end of April, beginning of May. Also, we had got everything set up so well for COVID that when we were like three days in, we were on the phone, like the team like talking to each other and we're like, fuck. We're like, you know, you got to watch it every day. But we had everyone set up really fucking well. So ironically, at the end of my career, like the best performance that ever happened was like getting through that period in it from start to end in like a great way.

So things were actually okay because it was all hands on deck in like the two weeks leading up. And then when it hit, we were like, ooh, all right, we're doing okay. So he's like, hey, it's not too crazy. It might get a little crazy in which case you're going to need to work a lot. But he's like, why don't until we go back to the office, you stay on so you can pay your rent and all that. And I was like, well, that would be fucking amazing. So then my dad calls, again, this might have happened right before then. But he goes, hey, this is going to be a year.

this is not going to be two weeks. They love this shit. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm like, how they're saying two weeks to flatten the curb? He's like, no, no, no. He's like, the people in charge of this love this. This is like control. He's like, do not resign your lease.

Because I was going to not resign my lease. But when the pandemic hit, I'm like, well, I guess and then, you know, I guess I'm going to resign my lease or whatever. We'll figure this out. And he's like, come down to South Jersey and we'll ride this out. I'm like, all right. So I go down to South Jersey on March 31st or April 1st. and when I get there, I'm unloading my whole U-Haul and all that.

And then there's the podcast equipment right there, which my dad didn't even know what a fucking podcast was probably. But he looks at it. He's like, what is this? I was like, yeah. Thinking about starting a podcast. I don't really have anything going for me in life. So this is kind of what it is.

And the back room, which you remember, he's like, listen. If not now, when? So I went back there and it like it was amazing to be able to have that. It wasn't ideally suited for like building a studio. But God damn it like built a studio I was really proud of in there. Put my head down and I worked around the clock over the next at that point five and a half months after that to get it all ready to roll. And then I launched on September 15th, 2020 with 10 episodes at one time. And I just have never stopped since, never turned off.

So you stockpiled all the interviews? I did. I only did two interviews in the first 10. Eight of them were solo episodes and my dumb ass just talking to the camera. Okay. What were the topics? I was going to say, what were you talking about? There was a three-part series on the college debt crisis, which was really something that I had in the first couple years after college started to become much more aware of and grateful for because I was an only child, which was like winning the lottery. Yeah. which means my parents were able to put me through college. So I didn't leave college with college debt,

which as far as I was concerned was like being halfway down the third baseline to home. And so when I started, and I also felt like I got an amazing education. So it was like strike one and strike two in a good way. A lot of people had problems in both of those departments, and I really dug into this. And that was like once you crunch the numbers on what this was, even at the time like me,

still very green in many ways. I'm like, holy shit, this is crazy. So I did that. And then I did episode four was so weird. People are going to go back and watch this now and be embarrassed. But it was like standing at, I did it standing up at a podium talking about like, I always had this obsession with things being real, right?

Like I liked people that just said it like it was, that it didn't feel like anything was rehearsed or fake or anything like that. So I just talked about people in culture that. whether you like them or not, they just let it fly out there. And that's why people identify with them. And, you know, the buzzword for that that people would use on the internet is authenticity, which I think when most people use that word, it has the opposite effect of what they intended to mean. But in reality, by letter of the definition, that is effectively what it was about.

Then I did an episode on genre bending in music, which I had like two of my cousins in there with me. And they're just like, what the fuck are you talking? I'm like, I don't know. We need content. So I also had it in my head. I was such an anal fuck that I didn't. I thought that you had to talk for like a straight hour and you couldn't ever cut anything. Why?

Because I thought people would know and they'd be like, what did he cut there? Right. Which was the dumbest fucking thing ever. So I would make myself have to get it right for a straight hour, meaning no mistakes. This sounds like like Pete, who literally. can he will, my buddy Pete, who will, he will bring paperwork and want to, like, read the, it's like, you're not reading the paper. He's like, no, no, no, well, let me reference this. Well, let me go back. He's like, Pete, we're just talking. Well, I know, but I don't remember the exact date. I'm like,

what the fuck? It was some point, it's in, I mean, when is it? He's like, it's in April, you know, 2011. I don't know anything. I don't know. It was in 2011. It's in early 2011. And he's like, well, what if people, what if I go, fuck those, fuck people. That's what if I don't give a fuck. This is how I thought about it. I understand that. But he really wants to say everything correct, everything 100%. And I'm like, Pete, that's not

how it's done. Like, people just want to hear you talk. But like, if I messed up a phrase, I'd be like you got to start over. People butcher me. I mess up. Listen, when I said the other day, the other day I was talking about a movie and I said, I said the, the powder, what I said that? I said the, um,

It was the layer cake. We look at my hands. I'm not going to bang on it. I'll tell you that. So it's, it's, it was the powder. I called the movie the powder cake. And it was actually the layer cake. The layer cake.

The layer cake. Listen. I shit you not. The fuck in, in, in the comments of that video. Engagement. They were. It was horrible. These people are brutal.

The most viewed video, we said, you said a bacchus. Oh, yeah. Yes. Abacus. Abacus. Yeah. Well, that's not what I said. Too much.

And I can tell you that. You want to talk about being. corrected. Every anal retentive motherfucker out there with a, with a decent education who wasn't raised in the South, they had to correct me. It was fucking insane. But boy, it blew up, though, right? Two point something million. I mean, you know. God bless America. Yeah. So I relate to it because I thought you had to be perfect, which includes like, again, how you would phrase things. So I would start and I would have my timing so right because that was the other thing. I'd just, generally wouldn't have papers in front of me.

I think a couple times I had like a one-cheater or something like that. I'm trying to remember it's been a while. But like I would only put a couple bullets on there. I wouldn't ever have a sentence or a phrase or any. I wanted all to be natural and from up here, but following, because you know, you're just talking to the camera, following whatever the topic was and hitting the points I wanted to hit. And fast forward to today where we're finally also now doing some solo episodes,

that was an incredible baseline to teach myself because now it's like breathing. I mean, Defe does these with me. He'll tell you, we walk in there, we're like, what are we doing? Oh, yeah, all right, pull up like five of these links. Perfect. All right, great. All right, so we got like seven.

All right, let's roll it, let's go. And then we just go for 90 minutes. And it's like the best thing ever. So it turned out great. But I did that for eight of the first ten episodes. one of the interview episodes, if you will, was literally me and my cousin, Sydney, after we were, like, engineering music for her. I was like, ah, fuck it, sit down.

And we did, like, a fun hour together. The other one was with my friend Terrence, who was, like, discussing the summer of 2020 and all that. And I enjoyed that a lot more. I didn't enjoy also because of how tight it was, like, I was just telling you, I didn't enjoy, like, my dumb ass just sitting alone in a room talking to a camera. I didn't enjoy that. I liked talking with someone else and getting ideas spread. and things like that.

I was going to say, you know who Johnny Mitchell is? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Johnny Mitchell and I started a channel. We started a channel called The Murder Men. The Murder Man. Yeah, we just started maybe five, six episodes.

Yeah. And listen, we, I feel like he didn't do it. It doesn't do anything, by the way. But I do an outline. We're doing like a six, eight, ten page outline. I watch two or three video. It's all about, basically about serial killers or some are off topic. Some are like Timothy McVeigh or, you know, like, you know, he's not a serious.

He killed a bunch of people, but not really a serial killer. So, and so some of them are off. So. Tomato of tomato. Yeah. So somewhere like that. So it would be like a 10 or 10 page, you know, outline. We watched two or three documentaries on it, right?

Like he's talking about when he first talked to me, he was like, yeah, we'll both read the same book. I'm like, I'm fucking reading a book. What? I'm reading a book? I'm dyslexic. I have a Southern education. I've a degree in on fine arts. I'm not reading a fucking, you know how long a 90-page, a 90,000-word book is?

Like a 300-8 word. Yeah, you've only written like fucking 15. There's like 10 hours of reading. We're doing 12 of these. I'm not fucking reading a book. So I said, no, we'll watch some documentaries. That's my commitment level. And so I do all this.

And then we come in and we sit down and talk. And those episodes are not. nowhere near as much fun as, you know, as whatever, some guy coming in here who robbed four banks and sits, sits down and I say, you know, so where were you born? And, you know, and then everybody jokes in the, in the comments, they're like, listen, if Matt Cox interviewed Jesus Christ, he'd start with, where were you born? So, and Colby cuts out tons of them. But every once in one slips in there. Well, we used to just start there. Now we've started to cut out some of the backstory if it doesn't have any significance. That's always been my, like, I can say this to you now because you're bringing it up. That's always been my like behind the scenes joke with Danny Jones. I'm like, Matt Cox is great after two minutes.

Yeah. Like the first two minutes, just like, yeah, so what's your name? Where are you from? And then suddenly two minutes in, you're like, so what did that make you feel? I'm in for this. He cuts the where you're born, where you raise all that shit out. Now it starts with, so my cousin came up to me and he said, hey, I got two pounds of bear. That's why you need him here.

Yeah, I know. But he didn't know what he was doing either. Yeah. Obviously more than you. Yeah, but neither one of us were. It's kind of a feeling out where one day, you know, I happened to make the mistake of starting to watch an episode. You know what it was? It was when you went on Lex Friedman and, like, I talked about all this stuff.

And I had already been thinking about it. And then I was like, okay, if he's cutting out this beginning story, we need to do it too. He kept the other six and a half hours. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you know what he cut out too. He cut out. When I talked about, I talked about Danny, I talked about he cut all that out. He, I think, or did he talk?

Was that in there? So I know one of the things he cut out was. I feel like he shouted out Danny on that show. He might have. I think he cut out a couple little things. He might have mentioned Danny, but I remember one of the things, too, he cut out was I said, because at one point when we were talking about doing podcasts and everything, I, I said, look, I said, honestly, like, between you and I, I go, this is a joke, right?

Like, you're making a living doing this. I go, I'm making a living doing this. I go, I go, this is the fucking most ridiculous job ever. I go, people are paying me for doing the same thing I did in prison, walking the track with some guy. I said, but now there's a camera. I go, right, this is ridiculous. And he was like, it really is. And then he cut it.

Then he was like, get rid of that. Oh, you got to leave that in. That's incredible. Right. That was, I thought it was great, because he was kind of like, he could, he was trying not to laugh. And he was like, he goes, it really is. It really is. I was like, right?

And then he cut it. I was thinking Colby would have left that. But you got to be good at it, though. That's the thing, Matt. Like, people gravitate towards you because you got massive Riz. Right? Like, you... I don't even know what that means.

You know what? Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Like, just accept the compliment. Like, you have that. It's a thing. And people are like, you know, this guy scammed a lot of mortgages, but I fuck with them. And he gets me through my work day.

Charisma. Yeah. Carism. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. The Rizzler. It wasn't getting upstairs.

So you, so at the beginning, so I have a question. You started the podcast. Like, what is you, are you expecting to make money at the podcast? Because initially you have to admit, you see those initial numbers and you're thinking, well, this is a hobby. Like, this isn't going to pay. Or are you thinking, no, no, I can see the money and I can see that it, if I tweak this, if I do, this is working. It takes a few months to kind of go, this is working, this isn't working. Are you looking at it like that?

Are you thinking, no, I'll do this because I like it, but it's probably not going to pay my bills? Well, it's a complicated answer to that question, but it's a great question. I was delusional. That's the most important thing. And I mean that in hindsight is a good thing in the sense that my whole life, I had a really bad habit of constantly telling myself that I sucked at anything. I was a shit talker to myself. Still am. Some I work on them a little better than I used to be.

But I was always, I never wanted to be a braggard or like, hey, I'm great at this or whatever. So I would always like, as a defense mechanism, be like, you fucking suck at this or whatever. And I was still doing that to myself in those six months, five and a half, six months, building up to actually releasing the podcast. But then I remember, maybe it was like. like July. I'm editing one of those first 10 episodes. And when you, I mean, I'm sure you can relate. When you're first editing yourself, and even to this day, you cringe all the time because you hear all the little things that other people won't where you nitpick yourself if you're

someone who does that. And I'm certainly someone who does that. So I'd be editing these things. And I'm like the meme of the guy like pulling the fucking headphones off. Like, oh God, what? Oh my God. It's terrible. Whatever. And so then I'm editing this one episode and I realize, you know, I'm clicking the cameras switching them after the fact and like 15 minutes goes by quietly to where and it was just an episode of me talking

and I like stopped after 15 minutes I was like that was not the worst thing I ever heard that was like I got lost in that for a minute that's never happened before and I you know it's probably like 2 3 a.m. in the morning I'm in that back room in my parents' house and I was I just had a moment I still didn't say like man you're

looking great at this or something like that. That's when Julian fell in love with himself. But no, no, it was actually more like, literally like, you know, you're not terrible at this. Right. This could work. And then subconsciously in the back of my mind, I knew I was put on this earth to do what I did. And I knew I was going to get a lot better out.

I don't know why you're laughing at that, but I knew. Oh, my God. I was thinking about something Danny said to me on time. I'm sure you've heard me say this. What's that? He were, we were, Jane and I were talking with him and he said, I said, oh, he talked to Julian later. He said, yeah, man, listen to this. Talk to him.

And he said, hey, he said, he was complaining that a couple of his videos didn't do as well as they thought. He thought they should. He said, in the middle of the conversation, he said, I am the most underrated podcaster on YouTube. He said, and I basically like, I deserve better numbers than this. I remember that. And I said, like he's joking. And now he wasn't. No, he wasn't joking.

And I was like, no, he had the, I wouldn't say that. And he goes, no, no, he, he said it. And I was, I was like, no. I remember, I remember the moment I said that was a really low moment. It was a really, really low moment. And I needed to, you know, Danny's like my psychologist, literally. My psychiatrist is a better way of putting it. Like, he's been a vessel for me to talk with.

and share our experiences with going through this over the last four plus years. And, you know, we've been great friends during that time. And I owe him a lot for hearing me out. And he hears me usually at my lowest moments. You know what I mean? And that was a particularly nasty, nasty time where a lot of shit was going wrong. And I objectively, I knew the work I was doing. And I knew where I was getting with people.

And I knew what the product was. I knew it. and I didn't say that to him once. I said that to him several times. And it was over like a week period. And I meant every fucking word of that. But you have to. I didn't put that aside for a second.

But you have to know that sometimes it can be the most amazing set of videos. Absolutely. And they're just horrible. Listen, and I'll call up Colby. And I'll be like, bro, like it's been like, we've had a bad month. and we're having a second bad month. Yeah, this was more like, this was more like seven months in. Oh, shit.

And the Colby goes, okay, hold on a second. And he comes back and he's like, and then he starts reading off the numbers from the previous year. He's like, this is where we were last year. Yep. Like, you know, like, just to say, like, that we're, we're at 75% higher than we were a year ago. And I understand you're saying it's bad because it's not as good as three months ago. Absolutely. Or three or four, the last three, four, five, you know, those months.

but he's like, this is where we were a year ago. And we were thrilled to be at this point a year ago. Like, manage your expectations, you know? 100%. But like, and when I were already talked to people about starting a YouTube channel, and I'm like, look, you have to understand that I think it's a good, I think it's a good business model. And I'm like, because if you go in knowing I'm going to lose for three years,

or even, you know, even break, let's say you break even or lose a little bit for three years, that's a good business model. Most people start a restaurant and what is it, three fifths of all, or three out of five of them go bad. Most of them go into the hole. They go out of business because they can't withstand the three years. And that's an average. That's, some people lose for four and five years. They just can't, they can't, they're delusional.

They go in delusional. They put up a video and it's going to fucking blow. up and it's like, what are you talking about? You got 12 subscribers. You did an hour video. You have 12 subscribers. You sent it to 30 of your best friends. Six of them watched it. And you thought, what, you were quitting your job? Like, you have to understand. You're going to bust your ass for three years and make no money for three years. I'm going to come back to answering that because I do have to answer your original question, but I want to stay with the first point. Okay. When I, you are a thousand percent right about that perspective. And I know Deif will speak.

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And my health was at an all-time low as well. And I was like hanging on by a thread. Were you, had you moved to Hoboken at this point? Yes. Yes. This is like winter 23 into early 24 when I was at my lowest of the low. And somehow, I mean, I could barely stay. awake during these episodes, but somehow, like I knew the work was still great. And I'm like,

and I knew long so sure, I knew I was about to get treatment for my health at that time. And that was going to start turning around. It's going to take a little bit. But I'm like, yeah, when I'm healthy, this is going to be game over. The problem was I was losing four to five figures a month at the time. And I didn't have much money in there at all. So it was scary. It was just me and Alessie. Alessie was working for pittances, basically at the time. And he had moved up here to Jersey right out of college to bet on me the whole bit. I had that pressure. That's the worst. His girl moved up with him to. Emily moved up as well. So like I, and I was, everything was crashing in on me. And the kid who had always told himself he sucked that shit

needed to know damn well that he could say out loud when he knew shit was good. And I knew shit was good. And I, and I said that to Danny Jones. Like I said, it was not once. It was multiple times. I remember that period and I was a thousand percent right. And I don't mind saying that. I don't mind betting on myself. Like, I'm a competitor. I don't want to win. I want to fucking dominate. I want to be the best of what I do. So when you asked me what I thought, like what your plan was coming in, I was delusional because in that subconscious in the back of my head, I knew I was born to do what I do. I knew that I could do it at every level. I knew that if I wanted to go do a solo episode and do it at a level that's like, you know, with some of the grades, I could do that right there.

And I knew that if I need to sit down with someone for six hours and get them to sell their fucking soul onto the table and spill their guts, whatever you want to say, I could do that too. And I knew it could be serious or it could be funny or everything in between or better yet a combination of all that. And I had to get a lot better at it at the beginning. I was not delusional about that. I'm like, you can get way better. I still think that today. Like I'm all the time. I'm like in an episode, I'm like, all right, that way better.

I can do this differently like that. But like where I am now compared to then, it's strictly because I've always had that vision. And so when I sat down on my parents' house, which I called a podcast like half my parents' podcasts because I could have never done this without them. I could have never afforded rent in a studio. They let me use their back room. So I lived off of nothing for the first two years, completely nothing, like didn't even buy new socks because again, Matt Cox, I'd spent all my fucking money on that studio equipment. I had, as it would turn out, and I didn't plan this, it was just the universal lining in the right way. the minute I actually monetized it and got money coming into my accounts, which was officially, basically December 2021.

So I was almost two full years into it. Before you got monetized? Before I got like any money. I got monetized summer 2021 and I made $20.25 bucks a month. I never focused on YouTube either. I was always focused on Apple and Spotify at that time. No money over there. No brand deals.

So I think I had like some companies give me a fucking code or something. No one ever bought the code. So no money. And as it would turn out, I got monetized about, I'm trying to remember. Maybe it was three to four months before I would have been completely out of runway and it would have been at zeros in my account. And even my parents would have had to be like, yo, like you got to get you got to go get a job. Also, my health was cratering. And it was just like all these things.

So it worked out. I had made the bets I did. and like it went there but like my life was just get up at 10 a.m. Try to feel better by like 11.30 to be able to sit at the fucking computer and edit because I was always sickest when I woke up and I would edit till 4 a.m. And if there was a podcast in the middle of there when someone came over because it was always in person from day one I've never done remote, never will. You know, if someone came in in the middle of there, I would edit before and edit after.

And then go to bed for five, six hours, wake up and do it all over again, seven days a week for four straight years. And the last time I ever did that was editing your episodes, your third and fourth episodes of me, 177 and 178, at the end of 2023. And I was, this was around the time where I'm having these conversations with Danny, too. And I remember it because I had moved up to Hoboken, August 1st. You had come up and recorded with me in, like, October. We held the episodes for a couple months. and I came down on like December 23rd back down to South Jersey and my parents for Christmas. Christmas day had a nice morning and then maybe like noon 1 o'clock we drove an hour away to my grandpa's house down the shore,

had a nice Christmas gathering for five, six hours, and I had taken a separate car. So at 8 o'clock, you know, everyone's having a good time. I said, I got to go because this is my life and this is what I do. And so I drove home alone to my parents' house, was in front of my computer, open editing episode 178 of yours by 915. I finished it at 3.45. My face is dead.

345 in the morning. I'm shot. This is right at the end of a time before we had the switcher, basically. It was literally one of the last episodes recorded before Alessi had the live switcher in there. So I had to switch all the cameras, do all the time stance, whatever.

And I was sick as a dog. I had started the treatment. for my ESS NFO gasmen, all the problems I was having, like a month before, it doesn't take effect for like three, four months a little bit. So I knew I was still at the low of the low, but I was like, yo, we're done with this. I can't do this schedule anymore. I'm not waking up at 10 a.m. and going to bed at 4 a.m. I used to be fucking 40, 50 pounds heavier and in great shape before I got sick and started

doing this podcast, which kind of happened at the same time by accident. And I need to get back to that. I need to get healthy. I'm miserable. and also I'll be way better at the job. And so I drove back up to North Jersey the 27th, and on the 28th, I went in the gym in the morning and I changed my schedule.

It sucked for the first two months while the shots didn't work yet. And then I got myself on the schedule and then the shots started working and I got stronger and stronger throughout 2024, and then I was ripping by 2025. But I just, my whole thing was I felt like when I started this, again, I felt like I was at square zero.

I felt like I was a total lose. I was extremely hard on myself. And I felt like I had underachieved in life and it was no one's fault but my own. And so now I had this thing. I knew in the back of the mind I could be great at it. And so I was like, I either make it or I die, which is a very dramatic way of saying it. Like it sounds fucking retarded to say that. But that is what I said to myself.

I don't mean that literally. I do like that. It's the burn the boats. That's it. Yeah, there's no going back. Yeah, I love that. There's no going back. And so I was just like, I'll find a way.

I will find a way in. And for me, the only reason I exist today. And it is the only, it wouldn't matter if my podcast was the worst thing you ever heard or the best thing you ever heard. The only reason I exist is because I figured out the shorts lane before anyone else did in podcast them. And when I did that, I was able to go mega viral. It got me on your radar. It got me on, I could call up a guy like David Satter who had, you know, been a geopolitical expert forever. And he'd be like, oh, yeah, I'll come on your show.

you know and like people I was able it's like if you build it they will come all right that's literally what happened because the first 86 episodes were me talking to my friends who I owe a great debt of gratitude to but like the qualifications to be on the show for three hours where can you breathe and does your mouth move sometimes yeah you know yeah the bar's pretty low at some point yeah there's definitely yeah I remember once so I'm in Tampa this was the last time I was here September 2023, this is when I was really young south health-wise, but I'm here with Andy, Jim and Danny for like two, three

days and you call me up the last night and you're like, Julian, you're in Tampa right now? I'm like, yeah, I'm down here for the Fed Fest thing. And you don't tell me you're in Tampa? Yeah. I'm like no, I'm here for like

two days. We got like an Airbnb where we're recorded. Well, I have to have you on my show. This is three content. Why do you want to have me on your show? What the fuck are you going to do with me on your show? And you're like, Julian, I had a crackhead in here yesterday.

The bar is low. I was like, thanks, my God. So it took another two and a half years, but we're here now. You know, it's funny is you say in the whole, no, I like, this is, I deserve this, I this, I, that, this is who I'm supposed to be. This is, right? And yet

every month when I get a check, every single month, I am absolutely shocked. I am shocked that YouTube is paying my bills. I am absolutely shocked. Every month, I'm thinking, this is the last one. They're going to figure this out. They're going to figure out that we shouldn't be paying this fucking guy anything. Like this, you know, and I do, I, I constantly.

constantly think that. And I'm constantly, my wife, I'm like, listen, you know, I mean, we got to, we got to be reasonable with spending with to be reasonable because like, you know, I need like a, we didn't start putting more money into, you know, 401k or into the. And then I'm, and she's like, you know, I'm like, because you do understand, I have a very short self, shelf life. And she's like, what do you mean? I go, nobody's going to watch a 65 year old man. I'm like, do you understand? I got a few years before it starts trailing off. And she's. And she's like, what do you mean? I go. I got a few years before it starts trailing off. And she's. And she's. And she. And she. And she. And she. And And she's like, that's, that's not true. I go, nobody's watching a 60 or 65 year old man do what I'm doing. And she's like, baby, that's, you're going to be fine. Colby's the same way. He's like, man, you're going to be. I'm like, I don't know when he's 70 year old men that guys are watching. I'm like, no, no.

So we need to be reasonable and save our money and do this. I just, yeah, I'm just absolutely shocked. But, you know, unlike you, not that you came out of prison, but I came out of prison with such low expectations of life that anything good that even happens, I'm always like, nice. Like, what a bonus. I'm blessed. You are.

You know, like, I didn't see that coming. Anytime that happens. Yeah. So, total opposite. When I talk with people about you and they're like, come on, does he really like that? I'm like, yeah, dude. Like, Matt Cox is grateful for all of it. And, like, I think it's awesome that you look at it that way.

And I will say, like, I do think it's the luckiest. thing in the world to be able to do this job. Oh, I thought you're going to say that you have any success at all, Matt. You don't deserve any of this. No, I knew it. Listen, all you have to do is sit with you once and you're like, this guy will figure it out. And that was always the thing. And this is, everyone talks about this on the internet.

Danny and I talk about us all the time. We're like, Matt would have been great at anything. He didn't have to scam homeless guys from the Salvation Army. The worst possible way to put it. He would have been great at. anything, you know, and now you have a, and your second chance in life, you're great at something. And, like, you should realize that. Like I said, you got the Riz.

Listen, nothing tastes like fraud. Everybody says like, you would have been great. Yeah, but really quickly. Not a lot to do there, you know. Which, by the way, where are your paintings? No, because we don't like it. Because when you do the shorts, it clutters up the place. I don't like that you see like half of an elbow.

and you don't see all that stuff. So it's more, it's better, you know, everything very simple, very. Uniform. Uniform and minimalist. I like it because that's the way it's just more about just like, you know, you. You know what's funny is Danny's podcast, which is the one that I initially kind of was watching in the halfway house. It's like that in my mind, and this was when.

when he was at like his kitchen table with Ben Mala. And they're, they're yelling at each other across, you know, Ben's, ah, you motherfucker. And, you know, they're yelling each other. But they were very close because it was kind of like a bar table. It was like this. It was very, because Danny's table is a little bit further, maybe 10 inches. A lot further than it was. Yeah, the one he has now.

But this was when he was like in an apartment or something. Because the first episode I saw it was not even when he was at the old studio. Right. So I remember watching that. And in my mind, it kind of imprinted, we're supposed to be close. close. Does it make sense? Like, it's like, you know, had I watched Joe Rogan or somebody else, then that would have been what my idea of a podcast is supposed to look like. And I didn't like a lot of things. You know, I didn't like there were some clutter. I didn't like the color scheme, but I liked the setup how close you were and it went back and forth, back and forth.

And I was like, God, this is great. I mean, I would change this. I would change this. But that's what imprinted. And that's why we're sitting at this desk and we're saying just because of his podcast. And the other thing I was going to. wanted to say was, I remember the first time when we talked when I came to your, your studio, which was, like I said, in your parents. Literally my parents. Yeah. And we were talking. We've been talking for, in my mind, it was about an hour and a half, two hours. I had plenty of time. And then at some point, you were like, well, you know, we're going to, we need to get to a stopping point. I'm like, oh, okay, well, I got, you know, whatever it was, I, you know, I was

thinking, okay, well, I can wrap it up in a little bit. And you were like, well, you know, because you got to get going back. It was like, to be back till like four or something. You were like, no, no, it's, it's like three o'clock or so. I was like, and it had been four hours. And I thought it had been like an hour, hour and a half because he kept asking these questions that other people didn't ask. And, you know, I have a two-hour version of my story. But the moment you start asking questions, it gets longer and longer. And the next thing you know, and I'm trying to answer the questions quickly. And the next thing you know, it's like four hours. You're like, we are.

I've got to take you to the airport. Flying you up for episode 111 in a couple months. See you then. Yeah. And I was like, what? Huh? So, yeah, you were the first person that really kind of blocked out the entire kind of, you know, trilogy or whatever. Yeah, listen, we have the Matt Cox Chronicles.

It's a playlist on my channel. Episode 96, 111, 177, and 178. It's 12 hours of your full story. It's the greatest thing ever. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm curious of the evolution of the podcast. So what's Trindify, like, in the evolution of the topics and the guests that.

Like, okay, in the beginning, I was looking for this type of guy, and it's evolved to this, to this, like, this was working really well. Is there, like, kind of steps that go through it? Yeah, no, it's a great question. So, like, at the very beginning, the first 86 episodes were just whatever. Can you breathe? Let's go. And then when I got to episode 87, that was after I had been going really viral on shorts. And at the time, I was the most viral podcast shorts creator in the world on YouTube.

Yeah, you had one of the first. of them was like a boost somonti or something that hadn't even happened yet oh wasn't that hadn't even happened what does that one have like 40 million or something like almost 50 million that's insane but at the time i had ones that were at like 20 and every i was averaging four to five million a clip and i would say you remember i'd spent 35 hours on the 35 second clip it was insane it wasn't sustainable but it was great that it happened because it was important and from an editing perspective just really got me down to the brass tacks of beautiful art and like what that needs to look like, which has helped me moving forward. And it's helped me now, like,

with Danny Gonzalez on our team to be able to, like, work with him. He's a brilliant editor, but work with him stylistically on things down to the smallest details. And he's someone who, like, loves that and can understand that and speaks that language. So it's like, it's huge to be able to have that. But, you know, I just, from a topic's perspective, I can never stick to a niche. And that's, that's been the short-term death of me, but the long-term gain of me. And I knew that early on. I knew by early 2022, that's when I officially knew what system

I could do if I wanted to, to get enormous. It was like, okay, pick aside on one thing and go all in on that thing. And I was like, well, that wouldn't interest me. It wouldn't be reflective of my beliefs in all likely. I'm a very moderate person.

And I have ADD. Like, I need to do all different shit. So I would still do all different shit. I do an episode with Matt and then I do an episode with a guy about mental health the next one. Mats would do great. That are the ones a crowded topic. It wouldn't do as well. But I would just do that. And I'd do one with Paul Rosalie. It's way different as well. And so, you know, I think there was a point there where I got a little, like if I'm just going to dumb down the math, if there were a hundred different types of potential topics I would normally

want to do, as we were going through the hundreds, like the 100 to 200 episode, I squeezed it down to 20. And then at 200, I started to open it up again a little more to like 40, 50, 60. And now, like, I'm close to doing whatever I want, but there's, I'll give you examples. A couple things that I haven't broken into that I really want to break into that I, that just, I have purposely not done yet, are like music and sports. I've done that in the past. I did that back earlier in the podcast. But with music and sports, what is really important to me, because like, Those are two loves of my life, and a lot of people out there love those things. They are also like the two most crowded spaces online of types of content.

Forget just podcasts. It's everything, right? So let's say I, and this is something I want to do. I want to be able to be a guy. We're sitting here a few years from now who finds an artist online. Maybe they got 300,000 followers on Instagram, which means they really have like 100,000. Maybe they've done one feature with, you know, a notable artist that got the number is 75 on the billboards. So some people have heard of them, but not many. And I go through

their early discography and I'm like, this person is unbelievably talented. They're brilliant. Their songwriting's incredible. Like, they got the it factor, the whole bit. And I'm like, I want to be the kingmaker here. I want to be able to bring them on, get to them as a person, have people hear that, and then fuck with their music, and they blow up. Take 40% of everything they make from that on. No, no, no. I just want to be able to do it for the love of the game. That's what I loved before I ever did the podcast. That's why this makes sense. I was always everyone's hype man. Now I get to do that for a living with people I like. So

I want to be able to do that. If I did that podcast today, it wouldn't really do much and it wouldn't do that much for them. However, if I'm able to do some podcasts over the next few years with some major league established people in music, think the biggest types of names,

and then, you know, that stuff kind of makes the news cycle as well, because I'm talking to them for three hours. At some point, they say somewhere, Or, you know, they're like, wow, Post Malone feels this way about this thing or, you know, Rihanna feels this way about that thing or whatever. Now I'm the guy who talked with them. So in the future, if I bring an end you get a bigger brand from that as well, like for the show itself. In the future now, if I bring on an artist that people haven't heard of, they're like, oh, Julian's the guy who talked to Rihanna or whatever. I'm going to watch this.

And now it can have that effect. And also your show is a lot bigger. So to, like, get into that space is a very... The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tiguan. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore. Step inside to find available full leather seats and wood accents. Under the hood, the available 201 turbocharged horsepower engine

gives it a fun to drive edge. The refined Tigwan, you deserve more style. Visit vw.ca to learn more. SUV, German engineered for all. strategic way that I have to get there. And that's not here yet. I think it will be. But with sports, it's similar. Sports is the most commoditized topic online. It was the initial love of my life. And like I'm an enormous sports fan. I would love to talk with a lot of these guys. But like, you do have to get, you can't get on a guy who's like a really good linebacker and ain't going

do anything. You got to get on Sequan Barkley. You know, and football is even hard, harder than basketball, because it's not a global sport, but like with basketball, you got to get on a high level All-Star. You know, or someone who's culturally some sort of phenomenon.

You can't just talk with some of the guys that I would totally want to talk with because it won't, it'll be a waste of their time. You know, so those are two topics that are difficult. So, like, I haven't gotten to that, Colby, but, you know, I'll zig and zag all the time. Right now, we are dealing with two major international stories, one that they're trying to make go away.

This is the most insane story in my life. The other one that's actively ongoing as we're talking here, which is the Epstein Files and the Iran War, which are both a fucking disaster. So at the moment, like, there's shit happening every day. And especially as we've been doing the solo episodes and then bringing in some guests who are involved in these worlds, like we're doing a lot of that content right now. So I have had these little periods, Colby, where I will ride the wave of like something that's happening that needs to be covered that, you know, we're going to do our best with and get the perspectives on and do the best we can. But, you know, Steve and I talk about it all the time. I need, I need new shit all the time. I can't just, it can't just be this or that.

Like, it needs to be something different all the time. Like, I don't, I couldn't do what you do where it's a lot of it. And you've done other things now, by the way, as well, which I like seeing. but like a lot of what you've done is like all true crime stuff. I love true crime. If I had to fucking sit here and do four true crime podcasts a week, I'd blow my brains out or hope the second floor here is enough for me to jump and get myself, you know?

But for you, it works really well. You don't get my ADD. It's whatever floats your boat. We have a, we kind of funnel our people, our group of people that want to come into, we'll get them and we'll look at them all and Colby and also down and go, okay, these people are good, and they'll make good, and these people are good. These people can get themselves to Tampa. These people want us to pay for their flights.

So we're going with these people. So that's our funnel. You people are asking too much. These people will sleep in their cars or they're local and they can drive from Orlando. This was the best story. You might have someone showing up once a month that's on drugs. that happened. And we had to trim a four-hour podcast down to an hour. These are other phone conversations Danny Jones and I have had over the years where we're talking

about like these flights and hotels that we're getting for people. And Danny's like, Julian, do you know what Matt does? And I'm like, what does Matt do? And he goes, he goes, someone says, all right, can you get me there? And he's like, hold on a minute. I'm going to put you on my channel. I could put 40 other people on my channel that day, but you're going to get to come here. You're going to get X number of views on this channel. I'm going to cut up 40 shorts into this. We're going to do all the work on our end. It's going to be worth your time.

You're thinking that's not worth $800? Yeah. And then they come. And Danny's like, what the fuck are we doing? And I'm like, I don't know. But I don't have those kind of balls for that. We have some nightmares. We've had guys that literally, like, they're talking.

And I mean, the guy's like nodding out. And I'm looking over at Colby. And we're looking back and forth. And I'm looking and I'm like, is it just me? Or does this guy look like he's falling asleep? And then we've also had the guy that got himself here. He and his girlfriend. Told him, don't bring your girlfriend.

No reason to bring your girlfriend, bro. He and his girlfriend get here. Oh, he hit her? No. No. I thought this is getting dark for a second. He gets herself here. He's here.

And he had used his like debit card or something and to buy the tickets and didn't have the money. And then it reversed. So now he's here and they've canceled his tickets. and he want and now he's like hey man i'm stuck here in florida and he lives in michigan or fucking idaho or something i'm like not only stuck in florida he's stuck right down the street yeah yeah in the hotel this is a guy who's this is one of these guys that as he's talking you're like you're not a good person like like you haven't changed at all yeah his first scam his first scam was to make fake checks and go to every one of his friends and family and say

can you deposit this $2,000 check, and I'll give you $300 of the $2,000 or whatever it was. And they'd go, uh, sure, and they deposit it. It clear. It's not a good check. It, but it clear. They think, you go, no, you can keep it until it clears. They're like, oh, okay, cool. So it clear.

They'd give them 1,700 bucks or 1,800 bucks. They'd keep a couple hundred bucks. And then four days later, it would reverse because it was a bad check. And then their account would go in the negative. Family. And friends. And I was thinking, I go, that's a, that's a good way to lose. your family and friends. He's like, oh, no, I had to move. I had to move. He's like, people are

coming to my apartment. They're banging on the door. And I was like, well, what did you think was happening? Like, what do you mean what he had to think? Below my line. Yeah. So, so this is, and anyway, when eventually, you know, then he does another scam and another one and then eventually, you know, then he goes to prison. He comes back. He comes on the show. Then he gets stuck here. And we're like, I'm like, well, why are you calling? First of all, I told you not to bring the girlfriend. Like, it was because he brought the girlfriend that he bought the tickets that they reversed. He's like, well, I thought that this check was going to clear.

And I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what you want me to do. I mean, he's calling and calling and calling. And eventually it was like, I'm going to send you a few hundred dollars. Don't call me again. Do not call me again. Like, do you understand, this is it. Like, I don't want to hear from you again. Like, you're already driving me nuts.

You know, and so anyway. But, yeah, we've had, we've had guys that show up and, like, you just, after, when they leave, you're like, I'm apologizing to Colby. I'm like, listen, bro, he sounded fine on the phone. He sounded fine. He was coherent. You're like, he couldn't, he couldn't string a sentence together. I'm like, I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened.

And then, of course, then the people, they send you like three months later when they had their video hasn't posted. They're, they're like, are you ever going to post my fucking video? No. No. No, we're not. Do you have any idea what you sound like? And then we had, well, then we started after we had a guy who, luckily this was a remote interview, we never had to post it, but he only had one tooth. Not missing one tooth, he only had one tooth.

Yeah. And he's talking, and I'm staring at the whole time thinking to myself, I can't post this. So then we start saying. I still talk to him for an hour. I still talk. He had good information. And, yeah. And the worst part, this guy wasn't even a criminal.

It was like to teach people about credit or something. Credit. Yeah, this was back when the bar was, you know. The bar has gone up a little to do. And it was like, and then we did put it on Spotify without the video. Colby, I said, what do you think? Kobe's like, Spotify? Maybe.

So then we started have people sending in video submissions. We have to see a video of you. Yeah. And so we got, and I say, to make sure you have all your teeth. And then we got a 10-year-old video. The video 10 years ago looked good. Yeah. And then this person came in and...

It was a rough 10 years. It was a rough 10 years. It was bad. And it's just like, this is horrible. Like, come on, man. Like, you know, you know. Oh, my God, I'm crying. It's rough.

It's a rough market. So, but you know what really cracks me out? This is the part that's, it's almost like I want to go back to prison and say, listen to this. To the inmates. Listen to this is when you have someone like a secret service agent call you and get on the phone. And I'm on speaker. I'm like, right, right.

And I'm, I'm in my living room. My wife's there. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, okay. Yep, what's up? Because like they contact you. Maybe through LinkedIn, whatever. You say, hey, here's your, here's my phone number.

Give me a call. Like, let's talk about your story real quick. Make sure it's long. You don't understand. You got to talk for at least an hour. We know. And he gets on the phone. And the guy's retired, like, secret service.

Like he's had most, some of these guys, like they work 10 years here, 20 years here. They're retired here. They're now working for this other branch. And you're like, okay, got that a fucking stellar career. Yeah. And you're talking to him. I'm talking to him on the phone. And he's pitching me on why I, he's a good fit for my podcast.

And I, you know, I really appreciate if you could just give me an opportunity to, and I'm like, and I'm looking at Jess going, is this a fucking career secret or career law enforcement, federal law enforcement? These guys arrested me. pleading with me to be on the podcast. And I'm like, I'm fucking in shock that you, that it, I feel like you could say, listen, I'll be there on Tuesday. You'd better be there, Cox. I'll be here.

I'll be here. Like, I mean, and I'm just shocked at these guys that I'm thinking like, like, like, you're like, there's like a, like, you're, you, you're a federal career lawyer who's been doing this for fucking 30 years and you're asking me, you know, I would really like it if you're, you're You could have me on the program. It's like, are you fucking serious? Like, I'm in shock. Like I had a, like you said, I'm like, I had a crackhead on yesterday.

Why would you think I'm not going to have you on the show? That's, I have the same conversation with people sometimes. And it's like, incredibly humbling to hear that. But I'm like, dude, I'll 100% have you on. Relax. Like, this isn't that serious. You know what I'm easy. I know.

And it's, or when someone, someone sees, you know, sees me in public and they're like, oh my God, bro, you don't have any idea. You've changed my life. You've this. you that. And then, you know, I'm sitting there like, you know, your story is just so inspiring. Inspiring. Like, I'm not saving children from starvation, bro.

I'm interviewing, I'm interviewing bank robbers. Like, what do you? And they're just, and I, you know, it's so funny when I, I just, I walk away going, I don't, I don't know what these people see in me. They really need to reevaluate them. They're, like, there's some great shit on Netflix, you know, like you could, like, they must have gone through. all the true crime documentaries to end up here. But your delivery is, you know what I do get a lot of, which I love too, by the way. I almost, I should have, I should have forwarded you this.

I probably had at a week, because I'll always mention like long-distance truck drivers. This is who watches my, you know, or the guy who's on the on the forklift. That's who watches, you know, the guy who's on the roof or is drywaller. They're listening. Yeah, yeah. And I had a guy, I've had like three people. in a week that were long-distance truck drivers. Yo, bro, it was either, like, two were on, like, Instagram and one I think was like an email.

And the guy was like, yo, bro, I'm a long-distance truck driver. I've been driving for 30 years. And he goes out through the whole thing. Just want to let you know, every time you talk about long-distance truck drivers listening to your stuff, he's like, I fucking laugh because I'm always listening to the fucking thing. And I do. I listen to exclusively. I'm just like, that's awesome.

That's so fucking cool, man. Yeah, those are my favorite ones, especially like people that literally keep the economy going. They're like, and they got to do like long hours with this shit. and they're like, your show gets me through it. I'm like, like, yeah, yeah. Shout out to all those guys. You know, like, this is not a job. You know what I'm saying?

Like, drywall, drywalling. Being a roofer in Florida. That's a, that's a fucking job. I'm not saying this isn't work. It's some work, you know, for, you know, it's showing up. And every once in a while I'll, I'll maybe look over who the kind of the person is. But let's say it's some guy, and I, kind of, I just want a vague understanding of the story because I found that the few times where I've

watched a podcast on the person, I just sit here the whole time, right, right, right. And then I'll, when they walk out the door, I'll realize, fuck, I never even asked him about this or about that. Or, and I think, why didn't you ask him that? Like, that was a good story. He never even told the story. That would have made a good TikTok or that would have made a good short. And I sit there and I think, you didn't ask that because you already knew the story.

already knew the answer. You weren't curious about the guy. You were struggling to even pay attention to him because you know his story. It's like watching a movie, walking out, going to the bathroom, getting a sing of popcorn, walking right back in the fucking movie again. It's a struggle to get through it the next time. You know it. Yeah. Unless it's Dune.

I watched the Dune. I've watched those like 40 times in a row. They're constant running. I love those. I love those movies. That's not the point, though. The point is. that I would rather know nothing, right?

I'd rather know very little. Some of the guys that have come back and retold their story, it's like, you know, it's kind of like, like, it's not as good as the first time. It's not as, because I don't show as much interest. And I'm, because I'm not as interested. But one more thing I'm going to say, then I'll stop. Because I've also had a lot of coffee.

So, or caffeine. Let Matt cook. Caffeine. So we were talking, and now I can't remember what it was. Oh, I know what it was. It was a Dossy Richards. Dawsey Richards is one of those guys.

He came here. He told the story. And by the way, he was thrilled with the way the story came out. He was thrilled with the views that it got, right? Who was he?

He's a guy that I was locked up with. I've had, listen, I've had so many guys that I've been locked up with. They've come. Those are great episodes. Yeah.

Because first we get to go over their story. And I kind of know it anyway. A little bit. But maybe I've probably never heard the whole thing. And then it's been five years, ten years. So I get to hear the story. And then we get to talk about prison a little bit.

Remember this? Remember this guy? And we die laughing. What happened? It's always. Oh, my God. You don't know. He's back in prison.

Oh, I hated that fucker. So those are great stories. But like Dossie came in and I'm telling you right now, it's a great story. He's a great storyteller. We were dying laughing. Everybody that watches is like this is an amazing episode. And I think it got like 200,000 views, did it? Yeah.

I mean, it's like, fucking, you do ever have that where it's like, I don't give a fuck that, I really don't give a fuck that, as far as we're concerned. You know, the video made money. It was good. I like doing it. I like the story. But do you ever have somebody walk out and then two months later, you're like, he deserved better. Oh, all the time. Like, his story deserves more than that.

I used to take it so personally. and now, like we were talking about earlier when I was going through that time and I was like, what the fuck? Like I deserve more. Now, I just understand what's not in my control, now that was a really long, low time right there.

And it's a good thing I went through that as well because when you're like, I don't know if I'm going to have money to cover my rent next month, and you've got to figure out how to get the food on the table. Like, that's where you really learn what you're made of.

So it was good. But like now, you know, I'll put out an episode and I just don't make a good enough title or thumbnail. That's just what it is. You know what I mean? Colby says that all the time. He's like the packaging.

And I'm like, you know what? And I hate that it works that way, but that's how it works. I can't change it. So what am I going to do? Sit here and bitch about it? No.

And I do, and there's still a part of me that's like, that guy did deserve better for sure. But I take it less personally because I know I'm like, did I put the maximum effort in that to give it the best chance. And if the answer is yes,

then I have to let the universe do what it did. I did it. I did a podcast of my, Scott Moore that we put out at the beginning of this year that was fucking unreal. This is a guy who was taken hostage by Somali pirates for 977 days. Fucking unreal. And it's one of my lower performers of this year. But like the guy was incredible.

Love the dude. Great dude, by the way. And came in here, like, you want to talk about like truly spilling your guts as to like moment to moment what was happening there. He had deep in me on the edge of our seats and we had had a really heavy podcast. That's that morning, too, with Dr. David Kipping, who's like a fucking astrophysicist. So, you know, we were already like, fuck. And then Michael's in there, and we're just like this the whole time.

And I didn't make a good enough title. I didn't make a good enough thumbnail. I tried to change the title and thumbnail a bunch. It didn't work, but, like, the people who saw it were like, holy shit. And I guarantee, like, he got a lot of super fans out of that as well. Because once someone's on there watching it, those people, now it's like, is it good or isn't it? And they're going to know that. They're going to know whether or not you just made a great title and this guest actually wasn't as good as the title was.

Or they're going to know like, holy shit, I'm glad I fucking click this one. This guy's incredible. So I do, there's always going to be a part of me that takes it personally. But I used to literally live and die on that. And I remember like when I was going through that time, that was a huge part of it because I would say to Danny, I'm like, this guy came in here and did blah, blah, blah, blah. And how the fuck could I only get him this number of views or whatever? And Danny was one of the guys who was like, dude, you can't, you can't think of it that way.

And it's funny because sometimes I have to tell Danny that now, too, when he's thinking about it. Like, man, this guy flew from fucking Singapore for this one. And I couldn't get him past X. I'm like, remember, like, when you would tell me? It's the same thing, bro. But how many times do those guys come back and they're like, we've had them come back and the guy gets like 80,000? And you're just like, God, and this guy's texting me like, oh, my God, it was so incredible. It was amazing.

And I'm thinking they don't realize. They don't think of it like we can. Yeah, no. They're thrilled like, hey, I was thrilled that I came on the program. It was great. I have a, I have, you know, this document, right? This video of my life on your podcast, which they think is, you know, amazing. And I get to send it to my friends.

And all I'm thinking of is it got 80,000 views. Like it deserved, this should be a half a million views. This video deserves half a million, or this does it build a million views. But they're happy. I've had the got, we had the, remember the. disbarred district attorney in Atlanta. So listen, he was upset. He was upset because Colby put,

Colby's title on it was Disparred attorney something. Like he was like, like, he came here. And so he was upset because we had came back. No, no, no. Thank God. He's like banging down the door. He's like 220 fucking pounds. Matt's like, get the gun.

No, I would have had Jess. My wife answered the door. She'll take care of this. So, yeah, I was just like, but he's text, you know, first he's texting the guy that set us up, which is a, which is Wade Williamson, who has a, he has a podcast. So he set us up. And then he's, and then he eventually takes, he's like, yo, bro, this, he's upset. And then he texts, text me. Not really sure why you guys had to put, you know, it seems, you know, it seems semi disrespectful that you put disbarred and this is that.

You know, we talked about it. You explained why you were disbarred. Like, you're just right. You're the one who you said horrible things about yourself. Yeah. So, but, you know, I don't know why, you know, and we, so I'm explaining you have to understand that we're trying to get people to watch the video and this and this. And that, you know, once they watch the video and they see why you were disbarred,

they'll understand and they'll like you. Once they've watched you for an hour and a half, they're going to understand and they're going to understand the plight that you went through your addiction and you're whatever. And I'm trying to do the best without, before I'm holding off on him saying like, you know, bro, I'm asking you to change the video, change the fucking title. He doesn't get to that point. Three or four days later, he texts me, and he tells me that his father watched the whole video. And his father contacted him and told him that he was proud of him.

And he said, I always knew that I always kind of knew what went wrong. He said, but to hear you sit down and tell it in its entirety, for the first time, he said, I am so proud of you and everything you've accomplished and everything that's happened for you to be the person you are, he said, and it absolutely was amazing. And I wanted to let you know that. And so then he comes back to me and he's texting me like, bro, you don't understand what that meant to me. I want to thank you guys. So it went from one extreme of borderline saying, go fuck yourself, you piece of shit.

take that down to thank god you did that and put that up and said it and called the whole thing and i was just like like what a fucking turn around and that's not just once that's happened a few times that's probably an extreme example we've had guys that have been irritated for a second and then of course then their friends start calling them and telling them how what a great you know you know hey you should do i wish you hadn't put that in there like i i can you guys remove this it's like oh fuck come on man you know you were being recorded like we can't remove that now, you know, and then, of course, oh, two weeks later, well, we've also had the guys that, do you remember the one guy that wanted us to take, he admitted to snitching on like three of his

buddies. And he didn't think anything of it. He, because he's no, he got out of prison. He went and got like a new job and he kind of moved in the area and he didn't think much of it. And he's like, yeah, and I hang out with the guys from work and I've got my son and my, so he, you know, I got remarried. And so he's just telling the story. And when I got caught, like, you know, they asked me about this guy. And I told him on told about this. guy and this guy got caught and I knew he was telling on everybody. So I told on him. And so he's just telling like what happened.

Everybody was always stitching on each other. He tells the whole story. And of course, we put it out. Like you're just, you're being recorded. I'm asking, we talked about it for 20 fucking minutes. And then when it comes out, he's like, first he starts with, I need you to take the video down. A couple of the guys from work saw the video. First of all

This is when we started out, right? Like the video got like 15,000 views. They didn't come across the video because it's an internet sensation. You told them you were on the podcast. You sent them the link. They didn't, they accidentally. Oh my God, it came up on their feet.

No, that's not what happened. You sent it to him. And then they were up. He's upset because like, yo, bro, like they came to me. me and they were like, yo man, that's a, like, you're talking about snitching on people, bro. Like, that ain't cool. You know, like, that don't, I don't think that's a good idea, man. Like, you know, that's a, that's a bad look for you. And he's like, what, like, what are he talking about? Like, we're dry, we, we, we, we hang dry wall. Like, what do you mean is a bad look for

me? So, you know, what am I not going to be president? You know, like, what, you know, am I not going to be on city council? What are you talking about? So, they have this conversation with him. And so now he wants me to take it down. Okay, and I'm like, okay, well, you do understand that a significant amount of money goes into. And I start going into the whole, the whole, how much, you know, the equipment and this, everything's expensive and producing and this and that. And he has no idea that, you know, it's a few hours. But I got good news and bad news. Good news is videos are bad news is it's not coming down.

Sionara. And so I tell him all that. And then, okay, a couple days go by. And then he comes back. He says, listen, man, I'm asking you to take the video down. My son is having problems at school because of this video. Cut the shit out of here. Cut the shit, bro.

Your son's nine. Listen, the worst thing you could do is think that you could pull on my heartstrings. You don't know who you're dealing with. I'm concerned about me. Yeah, he did. And I felt bad, but that video never came down. And that video and that, that, that, that, that, uh, thumbnail was not changing.

And that, like, I was, you know, I'm trying to placate him. I'm really, I'm trying to kind of draw it out so I can get the most views as possible. We probably would have. But then, if he had really made a case, we might. Yeah. Once it started dipping. It'd take a couple days. It'd take a couple days for the thumbnail to get updated.

It's like, all right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's texting and then my wife's like, are you going to text him back for a few hours. We're still getting 1100 views an hour. Let's not get crazy. This poor guy. stop, poor guy. But then he hits you up and his dad sees it. I'm going to go back to disbarred lawyer. Did that resonate with you because you had wished your own dad had been able to have that experience with you? It's funny. It's amazing how similar what his father had

said to him that my father actually did say to me while I was in prison. You remember he came and saw me and was like told me all these things, which I remember thinking he was like, I actually said that on a podcast the other day where because my dad, when I was in prison, and I still had 26 years And my dad's like, he's like, I'm proud of you. You've done amazing things. You've done this. And I'm like, like, we're in a prison visiting room. I have 26 years.

We're at the medium. Like, there are guys stabbing each other in the fucking yard. And I'm sitting there going, what? And I'm like, dad, I got 26 years. Like, I'm going to die in here. And he said, I remember he said, no, no, you're smart and you're clever. you're going to get yourself out of this. And I just remember thinking,

you're an old senile man who doesn't know what he's talking about. But, you know, people see things in you that you don't necessarily see in yourself. And he saw a very, very devious person that was going to weasel his way out. As Red Shea would say, rat he took the words out of my mouth.

Rat his way out of fucking prison. My father had not. New. New. Oh, I was about to do the voice, too. He's a fucking rat. Yeah. Matt Cox.

So, he still wants to do the boxing. No, we're not to fight with you. I told him. I'll train you. Train me. You went to a prep school. Matt Cox. Matt Cox.

And somebody's training me. It's going to be a guy raised in the project. 90 days. We're going to be all right. We're going to get you. So listen, back to the guy that his son. So he tells me about his son. Then, and I don't even know if I responded.

I might have responded like, come on, bro, I don't, that's not possible. I don't believe that there are nine-year-olds watching this. And I explained to, and also, anybody that has the link is someone who gave people the link. So that goes, I probably a week or two went by. And that guy came back and texted me, he said, hey, man, he's like, look, I want to apologize for trying to get you to bring the video down and take the video down. And he said, I was upset because a couple of guys at work told me it was a bad look and blah, blah, blah, blah. and he said, the truth is, he said, I'm glad that the video's up. He said, now everybody that sees the video is like, wow, that's an amazing story.

And so people now are like, bro, I watch your thing. Wow. And now they're all excited and they're cool. He's like, I'm glad it's up. And it says, he never mentions his son that I knew that manipulation tactic was bullshit. Right. But yeah. That's what they do sometimes.

Yeah, I remember the only person to put you in your place that I've ever seen was my mom. You remember that? Yeah, I'm also surrounded by you and your dad. And I just remember thinking, like, be polite. No, no. You were complaining about some dude who had, like, defrauded you and, like, flown you out to do all this shit and signed a contract and then totally, like, reneged on it. And my mom looked at you and said, huh, it doesn't feel too good. Happened to show on the other foot, huh?

And you're like, fuck. And I was like, oh, that was so good. I remember mom's, I was saying something, well, you know, this and this and this. And she goes, well, you know what that is. She's, that's narcissism. And I thought, she's called me, she basically said, you're an artist. Which I was like, yeah, no, I'm, I'm aware of that. It's like, boy, she's, she's not like, you know.

She warmed up to you. Once you listen to the podcast, she was like, I get it now. I get it. I don't think she liked you at first, but no. Well, I grow on people. You know, we've had a couple, I think we've had a couple women guests come on the show and say, like, you know, to be honest, I didn't like you. Yeah. Until we sat down and talked.

Was Nadine one of them? Nadine who? No. Macalus? No, I know by the end of that, I think she did thoroughly dislike it. It probably changed. Yeah, because she came on to talk about her toxic relationship. And Matt's like, oh, yeah.

Yeah, oh, yeah, definitely. Like, siding on Jordan, it's like, oh, yeah. Well, you know, when this happened. It was good, Ye and Yang. Sorry, I set that one up. Maybe that wasn't the best match. Yeah, she's great. I love her.

Yeah, she's good. Yeah, she's good. She's good. We're talking about Jordan Belford's wife, Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah. We had a guy on that comes on and he didn't come to the. Stream yard. There's a stream yard.

Yeah. He was a Brinks. I don't think it was Brinks, but it was close. It was one of the, like a Brinks type thing. And he comes on and he admits that one of the things he did was he would go to, they had a Bitcoin, you know, ATMs. And of course, they had to. go in and take the money and then reload it. And he said, he said, well, I would go in and I would tell them, they would say, look, when you go there, get a count of how much this, get a count of

this, whatever. He's like, and I realized, like, after doing it for several months, I realized, like, I don't think they know how much are in these machines. Like, so he starts, so at one point, he takes, I believe he takes some money, maybe like three grand. And they don't think they ever say anything. And then so like a few days later, he goes, like he takes three grand and he says, yeah, there was nothing in the machine, something like that. I forget the exact, exactly what happened. Or maybe he said there was a thousand dollars really was five. Takes, like, it ended up like three grand or something. And then he leaves. And like three, four days later, he goes back to another machine or that machine. And he takes like seven grand or something. And he comes back and

they don't say anything. Yeah. And so like a week later, And keep in mind, he's telling me this. And I'm like, and how long ago is this? He's like, six months ago. I'm like, okay. He goes, and then he says, so then, you know, maybe a week later, they call me in the office and they say, listen, and we've got a discrepancy here. And we've got some videos in the store and this. And we can't really see because he kind of made sure not to be, kind of have his back, the camera or something.

But he's like, they're like, but. we think that there's money missing. And I'm not accusing you of it. Because there's really nothing. We can't really prove it. But we, you can't work here anymore. And he's like,

okay. All right. And he leaves. I accept your terms. So he says, I got like nine grand grand or something. It was 10 because he bought his girlfriend a boob job. A boob.

He went, yeah. That's money well spent. They went to, exactly. Right. They went to Miami. I think they went to like Miami and got the boob job.

So he's like, They go to my, they get a boob job, they hang out. He's like, we, we spend a few, you know, so much money and we go back and, uh, you know. For a test driver. Right. And then he said, and then she breaks up with me. I'm like, okay, well, I saw that comment. So she, so she breaks out with him and he's like, yeah. And then the, and then. So anyway, we were talking. I'm like, well, did they, do you ever get arrested for? He's like, no, that's the whole thing, bro. Like, they had no idea. And he said they're talking the whole time. I'm like, okay, I said. You know, we're putting this on YouTube. He's like, yeah, we're, we're, we're, I'm good, bro. I trust me, I'm good. They, trust me, he said they, they've been robbed before and they never charged the other. Like, he had a reason why he felt it was okay.

I was like, okay, cool. Yeah. No. All right. You put it up. Of course we put it up. He's a grown man. So we put it up.

And the comment section is brutal, right? They don't, there's no filter when you're sitting behind your keyboard or you're sitting on your iPhone at two in the, morning watching some guy admit to bank fraud. And he just, guys are just like, this may be the dumbest human being I've ever met. Did this guy just admit to bank fraud? And this guy just, they just talk about, he's just rob the bank. He's talking like, and what's funny is like, guys are like explaining, like, does this

guy understand that the ATM is a bank? You just admitted to robbing a bank. Like, they're thinking. And so he's, listen, by the 50th. of this, people just, you know, just berating him. You know, you know the scene, the first scene in Better Call Saul where he, did he ever watch that show? I've watched bits and pieces.

All right. So the very first scene of the first season, you know, Jimmy, who's become sole later, is making this huge argument for his client, Your Honor, he did not do this. And ladies and gentlemen, the jury, yadda, da, da, da, da. How could you ever convict this man? And then he goes, the defense rest, Your Honor. and the judge's like Prosecution

Final statements Prosecutor gets up Goes Walks over Slowly wheels over Because it's in the 90s One of those fucking You know

TVs that's sitting on like the wheelie thing Right And then just looks at the jury Says nothing Presses play And it just cuts to the faces Of people reacting And you just hear like

The whole crime happening Like this awful crime on video And then he presses boss And goes the prosecution rest And they're like fuck, that's essentially what that guy just gave the prosecution. So that guy, after reading the comments, finally came back and said, listen, I think, um, like, I think I'm going to say, can you, um, can you blur my name out?

And it was like, first it was like, blur the name out. Then it was like, can you blur my face? Can you blow my face? Because also I mentioned my towel in the town. Like, he's like, like, I'm called. He mentioned his name, his company and he lives in a tiny little town in the middle of Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we blur, I mean, this is Al-Sphere.

It's also been a week or so. He hasn't been arrested? Well, this was probably three, four years ago. I haven't heard from him. Yeah. Can we Google that? Can we find out what came of him? We don't know what his name is.

How. I don't even think we'd be able to find his name. How, yes, not I think we removed it from the description box. I'd have to, I could bet you if we did a little research or something, we could probably figure it. Yeah, I wouldn't know where to send it up. But that may be why you stopped getting the text. Nice guy. But yeah.

They always are. I don't know. You know. You could write a book about just the things you've done in here, bro. It's, it's insanity. It really is. But yeah, we've also had some great guests. Some great guests.

What's his name, Shea Red? Red Shea. But it's not Red Shea. What's his last name? What's his name? Shee. But his first name is. That's his nickname.

It's like Sean. It's like Sean Red. Whatever. I don't even know his real first name. I've seen his real name. It's Red Shea. Red Shea. He goes by Red.

Right. It's funny because I was interviewed by Brewer. Right. Jason Brewer. And Jason Brewer has a podcast. He's just started his podcast. He mentioned, I don't know what he was mentioned about cooperating or something like that. And we were talking.

And we were going back and forth. And I mentioned you saying that you calling me up. up saying that I got a great idea, which was not a great idea. Yeah, I got a great idea. You know, I know this guy, you know, Red Shea, and I'm like, Red Shea, oh, I think I know who that is. I looked him up and I was like, oh, I think I've seen him on some things. I hadn't really paid attention to him at the time.

I know, you had already told me that you'd had him on the podcast. Yeah. We'd already had a conversation. And so I saw Red in his eyes when you came up. I think I looked him up at that point. kind of looked him up. And you'd already told me he fucking, yeah. You're friends with that red. Yeah, yeah. That cheese eating red bastard. Yeah. And yet he was on your podcast, which means you know good,

which means Red's no good because you interviewed me. I love you, Red. And I heard of have a whole explanation. And I thought, well, based on his explanation of you going on someone's podcast that has interviewed a rat makes that person no good, makes you no good for going on their podcast. I thought, well, then that makes you no good, Red. And I was like, that doesn't make, like, you got to work on this. No, that's not how it works. I understand. And I don't not think he's good.

I know he's 100% good. But so anyway, so you had talked to, you interviewed him. He clearly does not, was not, he's not a fan. Not a fan. He's not a fan. That's for sure. And so he, he, he then, then you contact me and say, I got a great idea. Celebrity boxing.

Celebrity boxing. And I'm like, first thing I said was, well, I don't think I'm a celebrity. I don't feel like I'm a celebrity. You are now. And you were like, no, no, you don't understand. We're going to this. We're going to that. And my favorite thing was what, no, you're going to understand.

It'll be huge. You're going to make a ton of money. You're going to make a bunch of money. And what it boiled down to how I was going to make money was I could sell t-shirts. I don't sell a t-shirts. Yeah, you did. You said, you'll sell a ton of t-shirts. You said, we'll have Matt Cox T-shirts or something.

You said, we'll sell a time. I mean, that might have been a piece of it. I don't remember that being the lead sale. No, it's not the lead sale, but it was one of them. And I thought, we're going to get this on the zone. We're going to have it on the undercard for Aiden Ross's fucking next fighting, whatever. By the way, you know, which none of which I know anything about. It's lost.

So that was lost on me. And then I broke down to, okay, then just give me $100,000. We can make that happen. Yeah, anyway. And then the more we talk. He texts me like once every two months, like, I'll kill that cheese eating rat bastard. when does he want to get in the fucking ring? He didn't.

I listen. I really, I have really like really done some damage to this guy. And never. He does not like you. Done anything to this guy. Well. So he goes on and on. And so you're going on and on about it.

And I'm like, yeah, I'm not interested. And that was the first time you called. And I hung up with the phone. And then you call back again like a week later. And I'm at this point now I'm like, I'm like, do you understand this guy? like a professional fucking fighter. No, I'm going to train you. Gonna train me.

Like, you would do a prep school. Like, you're not going to train me. Like, I'm going to, I need a guy who's going to train me who was raised in the fucking projects. Like, that's the guy. I got all those guys, bro. You know, but first of all, and even then I'm not, oh, 90 days. Oh, 90 days.

And I'm going to knock out red. Get the fuck out of here. This got the professional fucking fighter. It's not about. Survive. Like, I'm not surviving. I'm not sure. I'm too old to get cr cr.

You got a good body. for boxing. You're like 5 foot four stacked on testosterone. I shouldn't have the tiniest little fuck, no, no, but you got fucking bear claws though, bro. Look at these sausage fingers. Look at those things. That doesn't mean anything. Do you have any, do you understand that people in the comment section, they leave little tiny T-Rexes? I understand that. Because they make fun of my arms. I have the reach. You're hard to reach though, because you're down. You're down low. He's got to come down to your level.

Are you trying to convince me that a guy who's taller, longer, longer, and leaner, who's a professional boxer, I've got a better chance. Let me be clear. He'll kill you. Okay. But it's a matter of, can we get you to round three? No. I think you give me 90 days. I'll get Louis Eza in there with you as well. I'll get my boy Conn in there

with you. I'll get Carlos Brooks from the MMA side to teach you a little bit of footwork without the kicking, obviously. You're going to be a lean, mean, fucking fighting machine. I'm telling you, bro. What's funny is the heavyweight, the former heavyweight champion of the world, I forget his name, lives down the street from me. You know what I'm talking about? He was in Rocky like six or something like that. He played like somebody. Anyway, I forget his name. But anyway, so he used to train at the gym that I worked, that I mopped the floors and cleaned the toilets out when I was in the halfway house.

So anyway, so I get up, I hang on the phone. I'm not doing this. And then. I watched Red's Did you see his soft white underbelly? No. Yeah, bro. He like tears up. It was like a really... Dude, red is...

It was a good soft white underbelly. We're laughing because like the rat thing's funny. Red is a real fucking dude. Yeah. Like they're like I really got along with him well. Great guy had a very interesting life to say the least. One thing you cannot take from,

well, there's two things you can't take from him. He never fucking rated. And what he says is what he means, regardless of where that lands. I respect that. Yeah, I agree. These texts with him are hilarious, by the way.

I'm going through the greatest hits. Sunday, June 8th. I'll knock Matt Cox out. Trust me. He could have Mayweather train him and I'll crush him still. I said, John, if I trade, that's his name, John. If I train him, I will have him

ready and the fight will be great and he's like I'll definitely crush him then I said we will give the people great entertainment he said bring it 10 ounce gloves no head gear and I said we should I said yes we should probably do 12 ounce gloves though because Matt's hands are huge see I was saying that he goes he goes 12 look at the these are fucking they're fat they're fat but they're tiny those are literally chimpanzees I mean those things could anyway if you break a window the window gets broken and your hand is intact. So anyway, he goes 12 for him, 10 for me, fuck that rat,

let's make it happen, show me the money, how many rounds, and what wait. And then he texted me six months later. I never saw this, actually. This is November. Does Matt Cox? Does Matt Cox really want me? I love to knock his fucking block off.

After knocking him out, I'll challenge you too, L.O.L. I'll fight both you in the same night. you brother hope all as well it's like all time so listen I

watch the soft white underbelly right and I'm watching it and at some point like he goes through kind of like a talks about growing up talked about like you know horrible obviously

his fucking childhood is horrible his really his whole life is fucking horrible I don't there's never a point in his story where he

kind of explains that he was on top. Does that make sense? Like, there's never a point where he, even when he's like, you know, they were doing, they're doing well, they're making money. Like, you never, when he explains it, he never really talks about how, like, there was a, you never feel like he was, he felt like he was on top. He was fulfilled. It was an amazing time. It was good. It was, you know what I'm saying? Like, it always seems like this underlying, just anger and, and it just seems depressing to me. And then when Whitey gets caught, no, not it gets caught. When Whitey, like, I think he takes off on the run.

And I forget the other guy that was with Whitey that he ends up cooperating. Oh, what the fuck is that guy's name? And he's like, yeah, because the guy got like somehow or another, he calls him on the phone, gets him on the phone, says something. Like, by this point, Red's already in jail. And I think he's on the phone with the guy. And the guy's like talking about, I think Whitey got, or he's saying Whitey wasn't informant. And so, you know, Whitey's like a god to him. You know, like he was, he's like a father figure like a god to him.

And these guys are, he looked up to all these guys and then they all started ratting on each other. And so it's like, you can see, listen, you can see it in his, like, I don't know what your interview was like, because I don't want your stuff. but, you know, but Mark knows what he's doing. So I, I, listen, it was, it was, it was, you know, other than the fact that I know he wants to kill me. And I'm watching it. And I, it was, it was, like, poignant. Like, it was like, he, he's a great guy, dude. He tears up.

Yeah. Like, he really, he didn't hold back. He tears up. He, he, he's, you could tell he is, it. They suck a fucking, you know, they gutted him. him. Like, when that happened, like, it's like, and so I remember I said on the Jason Brewer podcast, I was like, so I get, because he was kind of, I think he was kind of bashing him a little bit. And I was like, look, I disagree with his stance on the whole situation. But I also understand

his anger and why he digs in so much because his idols who had convinced him that this is something you never do, no matter what, if you've got to do a life sentence, death penalty, no matter what, you never do it. You know, like, they fooled you. Does, you know what I'm saying? Like, they fooled you into being this person and, which I wholeheartedly believe he is. It's kind of like, Joey Merlino. It's Merlino, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they had a fun podcast together. Oh, hell of that. They got along well. Yeah. Joey Merlino, like, I don't think Joey would ever, would ever tell. He would never say, I think he'd just go to, he'll just do the rest of his life in prison, right?

You know, when he was in, when he interviewed with Patrick Bet David, like, he won't even admit that the mafia exists. It's like, what are you fucking doing? Like, you sound like a fucking reet. You sound like you're trying to convince me that the world is flat. What were the comments on that? They're like, Joe, is the sky up? I don't know nothing about nothing.

Yeah. Yeah. But he's like, it's like, you're digging into, to a, a point of, of lunacy. Like, it's complete failure on, on your point to, to, to not, you don't, won't even admit that. I won't speak. I won't speak for those guys. as they lived a different life, they had really difficult things happen to them.

And, you know, it doesn't, you know, excuse like being a momster and all that. But I'll speak on my opinion of Red, like, have a ton of empathy for the life that was thrown his way. And all the different people who pulled him in directions that I feel like was not his fault. And you say what you want about it. Okay, yeah, these guys made him believe this code and duped him. but like he actually kept his work. Yeah, I'm not. And I, and like,

I'm not saying that in a way that he's an asshole. Like, he's, he's an idiot. I know, but like I respect the fuck out of that, man. Yeah, I, I, I,

I, I'm not saying I don't respect him. Like, I understand he has a code. He's stuck with the, because only because, like, there's a thousand, if you took a thousand people,

like, that have done this, that have been in that life and live that life, like, I can think of maybe two or three people. Right. That I, to this day,

No. And by the way, hate my guts and never miss an opportunity to bash the shit out of me. Right. Don't let one pass, Red. Keep going, bro. You smash me. He can't. He does.

He does. He loves it. He, but, yeah, he would, he would never. He would never. I just don't understand that. Like, you're, you're about to do 20 years because you won't say that Jimmy was the shooter. You didn't kill him. Jimmy.

Like, just say Jimmy to, I'll do the 20. Listen. Fuck! He's that dude. He's that fucking dude. He is, yeah, I've sat across from a lot of different types of people from different walks of life. And there's some that just stand out as like, that dude walks to talk everything he says. And he's one of those dudes.

Like, he really, I got a lot of respect for that. Who's the other one? Who just did a, by the way, who did a podcast with Merlino? If I said it right. He had just done a podcast, which was, I always call him Red Bull. We called him Red Bull in prison. His name is Andrew Levinson. So he had just done one.

And he came on the podcast and just the whole time was, you know, so we did the whole podcast. And then when we got to, I cooperated, he was like, he had no. Oh, we didn't know. No, he did. He knew before we got to the podcast. Like, no, I was in prison with him. But so he didn't know. He knew, because we talked about it beforehand.

And I was like, yeah, you should come on the podcast. He went on other podcasts and was given the other guy shit for coming on my podcast. He's like, you knew he cooperated and you went on his fucking podcast. And then he comes on the podcast. So I don't think Red's going to do that, by the way. No, no, Red's, no. I wouldn't feel comfortable. I wouldn't feel comfortable with.

I think you need security here. If we had, if we could chain him up to the wall and we could test that his hand could only go this far and be like, okay. I'm, okay, right there. And I would know, I can't, if I lean too far, I know he swings. Like, you know, he would know I can get to him if he leaves one more inch. He's a man of his word, dude. So is the guy's name Andrew Levinson. And so he knew because we talked about it.

And, you know, he's on the phone with me going, I can't, I didn't know that. I'm like, well, I mean, I went back to court twice. Like, what did you think was happening? So, and he's like, no, I thought you went. And I went back once. But I got two reductions. So he's like, he's like, no, but I thought you cooperated. And he said, you did the ethics and fraud course and you did the two interviews with Dateline.

And I was like, yeah, yeah, I did that. I did do that. But I also told on everybody I fucking knew. I'm like, they just didn't arrest them. So I did the first one, that's what I got it for was this, that. I said, the second one, I said was Ron Wilson. He's like, Ron Wilson. Like, you know, and then he went on the other, another couple podcast.

He's like, yeah. And he really twisted the whole. He's like, yeah, like, we were all good friends. Like, Ron Wilson actually hated your guts. And we ate. We ate lunch and dinner every day. Like, no, that's a lie. We probably had maybe five, six times.

Like, Ron hated you. So he twisted it, of course. And then he gave everybody a hard time for coming on the podcast. And then he comes on the podcast. And he told me, look, I'll come on the podcast. But when I come on the podcast, he's like, we're going to, well, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about it for at least, you know, at least five minutes. And I don't want you to cut anything.

I'm like, I don't want to cut anything. Because I'm going to let you know. I'll call you out. I'm like, I don't give a, like, I'm going to go. Call me out. Like, you're not, you're not outing me, borrow. Like, there's a, there's a dozen podcast where I've talked about this. I have no shame.

None. And, and so. What was the one with Big Hurk? Oh, yeah, big hurt. Big Hurk. He was so upset. He was very upset. He was so much more upset than was on the video.

But so Red Bull comes on. We do the video. He and I go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. You know, he's not budging. I'm not budging. And it's like, okay, fine. You know, okay, well, you know, like you feel you're all played out now. I mean, you have anything else to say?

You know, and it went nowhere. And then it's so funny about this, too. I then got him on Bubba the Love Sponge on his show. He goes on Bubba's show the next day. And Bubba's like, we had a perfectly fine, we had a good episode. He said, it was a good story. He was great. He said, and then I said,

said, well, look, you know, he said, I want to thank Matt Cox for having a, uh, getting us together. He said, and he went fucking nuts on you. He just goes, bashes the shit out of me. Bubba cut that section. Because Bubba was like, he was like, well, he actually called me and I was like, nah, put it out. He's like, well, I think I should cut.

I said, ah, don't cut it. Put it up there. That's good stuff. For everybody that I lose, I gain fucking five guys. You know what I'm not like your opinion. Oh, Matt, what? Fuck him. Yeah, you've always been open about it.

Unsubscribing. Okay, well, guess what? Six more people said, hey, he's fucking. honest. Yeah. So, anyway, so he went on, and then he bashed, so he bashed me there. Then he went on some other thing. Bash me. Bash me, bashed me there. But he's also in the between that. He's texting me, asking me, asking me, and I, and I know Bubba's contacted me. And I'm like, hey, how'd Bubba go? He's like, oh, it went pretty good. Did you talk to Bubba? Yeah, I talked to him. I talked to him. I said, said, you had some stuff to say. And he's like, well, you know, you know how I feel. I just, no,

I understand. I said, well, don't miss an opportunity. And, you know, he thinks he's hurting me or something. So, you know, hey, what do you think? I say, I think you should do this. I think you should start a podcast. I'm trying to get him to start a podcast. We have a whole conversation about him about him starting a podcast. He would be a great podcaster. But things, he was so bitter about this whole thing. And I mean really, really just bitter. And I kept telling him like, look, I understand that you're upset. But you're talking about. starting a podcast where your whole podcast is going to be bashing the government, calling out snitches. That's what it's going to be about. And he's like, yeah, yeah, well, you know, there's not one out there. I said, like that. I said, no, no, there are. There are multiple ones that have started like that and then failed.

There are some that are still struggling. It gets old. Yeah, it gets old. Gets old. And I was like, and I get it. I said, and also I said, you do understand that like 85% to 90, really, it's more like 97, 98% of people cooperate, but only about 85% get the cooperation. So people like, oh, it's 85%.

It's not 85%. It's 95%, but 10%, they didn't give enough information to result in an arrest, and therefore they don't get the cooperation. Doesn't mean they didn't try? Yeah. You know? And so I'm explaining that to him. I said, do you understand that it's a small niche that will even come on your podcast and

talk about their crimes. And you're now taking 85% of them and saying can't do it. And they, and they don't want to come on your podcast now. I'm like, you don't have enough money to fly people in and put them in hotels and give them $1,000 or $500. You don't have that money. You have no money. You're asking me for money. And I'm like, so, oh yeah. No, no. We, I'm, I hate to say this because we, we, we, listen, it's funny because the only people I've ever given money to are people that have gotten out of prison and they're not doing well and they're desperate. Like, and it's like, okay, you know, we'll pay for a hotel or we'll, we've never, I think we've maybe very seldom, right, have we ever given anybody maybe a couple hundred

bucks? And it's always because like they're just, they're just broke. Like, I don't need to give you any money. I'm going to give you a couple hundred bucks because, you know, and for Red Bull, he literally had the wife's done with him. he moves into like an efficiency apartment and we base and it was nothing and we we paid his rent you know and he came on he came on the show so and then i don't know if colby didn't know this but then he also called me a month or so later after going on multiple podcasts and bashing me

and after talking me many many times texting me many times about the situations that he's in and starting a podcast and what i thought he should do and how and i'm telling him i can i can get you on other podcast, but you've got to start putting up some content. I'm trying to explain how it works. And so we go through the whole thing. And then he asked me for like his rent was coming up. And he was shy like 400 bucks and I sent him 400 bucks. I can't if my wife would kill me.

She'd be like, this fucking guy. Why did you send it to him? I felt, I felt bad for him. Like, listen, let me explain. And here's the thing. And I think even Red would understand this. Prison is hard. And that the people that made my time go smoother, I want the best for, you know, read for hating my guts and saying what he believes are horrible things.

And I get it. You know, I laugh about it. I joke about it. He thinks it's horrible. Like, I don't want anything bad to happen to him. Like if you said, hey, if this guy right now, you could send him back to fucking prison and you ever hear about him again. No, I'm good. I don't want anything bad to happen in that guy

You know He first of all he's living in his own prison He's created His anger is shaving decades off his life Yep So I think it's I think that his hatred of me Is the equivalent of

You've heard this Him drinking poison Hoping it kills me It's just It's not worth it It's stupid Yeah And that's what Red Bull

And I told him that Over and over again Stop this behavior You know You can do this You can do the right thing You can do You know

It's stupid And I'm not saying don't, you keep bashing me. But I'm saying, don't build your whole, your whole, don't make that your whole platform. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, and it's not, and you're too smart for that. You can do, look, you do exactly what I'm doing. So, and then, so we've been having this conversation, everything. He was about, he went to New York. He had been on a couple big podcasts, came back.

One of them I didn't realize, I, I don't know if he went to New York. He went to Philly, but whatever. He flew some places. And some people were paying him to do the podcast. And he did, he did Joey's, uh, he did Joey's, uh, he did, uh, Joey's, uh, podcast. And he came back and then this guy, another guy who's bashed me multiple times, but they still text me. You know, hey man, you just had this guy on. And I'm like, didn't I see a video two weeks ago where you said I was a piece of garbage? And now you want this guy, now you

want Julian. You want Julian's number? Yeah. Let me shoot you his contact. So, you know, and so anyway, yeah, Kyle, this guy, Kyle, uh, um, Sam. Handler text to me. And he says, hey, man, what's, he said, Kenan, you talk. I'm like, yeah, sure. And I picks up. I said, hey, what's up? He said, so he said, Red Bull works with me. Kyle runs a prison consultant firm where they kind of, they do, they call it prison consulting, but basically what they do. They prep you for sentencing and they try and get your sentence reduced based on various situations. And so Red Bull did stuff for him, worked with him or for him. I don't not sure exactly what their arrangement was, but they do a reentry seminar or something. And Red Bull

was coming to the seminar. And so he sent someone over there to pick him up, right? And he knocks on the door. The guy bangs on the door. Red Bull doesn't answer. Bangs on the door, doesn't answer. The guy goes to the management and says, hey, can you, this guy should be here. He's not answering text. He's not this. I'm supposed to pick him up. Can you open the door? I think something's wrong. And they go, sure, yeah, okay, they knock on the door and they open the door. You know, what do they call that a check, a welfare check. Yeah. They open the door and he,

he, he, some people were saying he committed to suicide. He died. He overdosed. He overdosed on drugs is my understanding. Kyle and Jason and a bunch of other guys that know him. They're like, no, no, no. He committed to him.

Now, I don't know. That's what they're saying. Either way, he, he overdosed in some way. And he was a, really a degenerate gambler in prison. And I knew that. And he would do drugs when they were available. He was always running from somebody they owed money to.

He was always, but I didn't really think, I knew he had a drug problem prior to prison. But I didn't know he was currently doing drugs only because I thought he's broke. Yeah. You know? But he could not reaclimate to, um, you know, to society. And, and he had multiple people trying to help him. And that bitterness that he held, because he did, he got, he got 17 years.

I think he did 13. He was, it was, it just, it killed him. It just killed him. He couldn't let it go. Are you looking stuff up to see if, what are you doing? Oh, I didn't know if you were looking. I saw you. That would be in, when you say,

killed him, that would be the end of the TikTok. And at the climax. That's what I was doing. Oh, that was a long story. Well, there'll be in multiple. Yeah, he's like, I'll cut it down. That's what that's like it was. No, no, I'll trim out most of your stuff in. Or even worse, Colby'll make it look like I'm saying stuff that, like, I didn't say at all.

And people will be like, you just said you robbed a bank with a Kennedy mask on. That's the theme of a point break. You're a liar. I'm like, I didn't say that. I was talking. Talking about point break, like, you know, I think this is the thing about you, and it's a good juxtaposition with that story. You know, for all your flaws that you've had and you've had many, you have at this point in your life a lot of self-awareness. And that struck me the first time I ever met you.

And, you know, some people would look at some of that self-awareness and be like, yeah, well, are you self-aware or some stuff that I would never do, like ratting or something on that in prison. but like you understand human nature very well for whatever whether that's good or bad and i think that there are so you know i'm not commenting on what's right or wrong or how to comport yourself when you go to prison or stuff i i don't know anything about that but you know i guess that's on people to decide but you understand who you are decisions you made why you made them and as a result of that you seem to understand very well where people are in denial with some of their own decisions and some of their own realities, if you will.

And you are just to cut through the noise what is one plus one here. You know, and a lot of guys, they can't see that way. And that's a tragic end, obviously to that story with Red Bull. But, you know, I think there is something to be said, whether or not snitching is right or not, that's a separate issue.

But like the bitterness of him having not done that and then being around guys that did and holding that contempt instead of working on his, own life, if you will. It technically doesn't get you anywhere. You can't change the past. You can't change what other people did and their decisions. And that's

just, you understand that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not willing to be miserable the rest of my life. Yeah. And that's the difference. Like with Red, I don't think Red's miserable at all. I think Red fucking enjoys the shit out of his life. I have not seen him one time smile. He seems

cry every time. He smiles. But when he's talking about you, that cheesy. By the way, he reacted to the video. By the way, he reacted to the video. that was cut out of context. Oh, it was cut out of context. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

So you know what the video? He doesn't like your context. No, you know what the video was? It's, listen, this is, and this is the beauty of good editing or, and a good editor that is willing to sacrifice your, you know, sacrifice their subject for the sake of views. that TikTok which got 10, 15 million. 30, Oh, 30.

Oh, he did 30 talking about you. 30 million. No, no, he did. No, no. Ours. The original one did 30. No, no. No.

I'm thinking of a different one then. Yeah. I saw him react at like a full video you talking and him just. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. It was a short. And the short was me. So I was talking with some guy and he was talking about, you know, yeah, yeah.

You know, like today if I did it, I do this. And people are always asking me, like, how I'd commit fraud or this and that. And I'm like, they're like, like, do you ever think about what you do? I said, oh, I know exactly what I do. And they were like, what would you do? I said, oh, I said, I would go to some homeless guy, get his information. And when I get his information, of course, I'd give him some gift certificates and stuff to eat. And I'd say, hey, by the way, I said, I'd keep in contact with him.

I'd give him a phone and say, look, by the way, I just got this, or I just got like a phone or whatever, you know, or if they had their old bottle of phone, whatever. I get the phone number so that I said, and every once in a while I'd go by, say, hey, man, by the way, I got some more gifts to do. You want me to stop by and give you some McDonald's gift certificates or some whatever, and go by and give him some cash, whatever. I said, I'd go ahead and befriend the guy. I said, and then what I would do is, because I've surveyed him already, obviously, I'd take a survey of him. You were a statistical survey. Yeah, when I was doing the surveyor, I said, first I'd start by, you meet somebody that you think, hey, this guy, this guy's pretty close to my age, close to my height, wait. I would take a survey.

I'd make a survey saying, I am a surveyor doing surveys. for the Salvation Army to determine where we place our next homeless facility. I would then survey the guy. I get enough information to steal his identity. I said, then what I would do is I would keep in touch with him, get his phone number, because now these guys have like Obama phones. Get his phone number and everything and say, hey, listen, do you stay in this general area? Yeah, well, look, I'm going to be back here in like next week to drop.

I can drop off some more gift certificate. Is that cool? Yeah, sure. Whatever. Okay, great. And then I order all of his documents, go get a driver's license in his name in another state. And then once I've got that, then I would go and I would open a bank account, buy a house in his name, satisfy the mortgage on the house, go to five or six hard money lenders, borrow a million dollars on the house, sign all the documents, pull out all the money. And then with the computer that I made the fake satisfactions and all that documentation would be on a computer.

Fine arts degree. I'd make all those documents on this computer. and then I closed the computer and all the phone calls that I had made off my new iPhone for this scam, I would then one day go to him and say, hey, bro, guess what? I'd wipe it all down, put it back in the package, say, hey, guess what? I got a new cell phone. They give them to us. I'm supposed to hand it out.

Here's the new iPhone fucking 45 or whatever it is. Here it is. You know, here's an iPhone 12 or 17 or it's years. Yeah, yeah, no, no. It's got $1,000 on it. We'll put another $1,000 next month. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give it to them.

Keep in mind, that's the phone and the phone number that's been called all these people. It's called all these banks. So he takes it and he starts using it. And you go, okay. And then maybe a couple days later, you come by and he says, hey, you're not going to believe this. They gave me a fucking laptop. Do you want it? Yeah.

He thinks I'm a fucking savior. I've given the laptop. That laptop has all these documents showing that he's satisfied this, or created these documents, everything. He surfs the net. All of these websites that had to go on, they're all connected with that, the history. give it to him. I said, now here's the thing. Maybe he sells those. Maybe he keeps them. Maybe in a month and a half when the FBI shows up and they're looking for this person, they track the cell phone, they grab him. They arrest him. I'm like, they're going to hold this guy who's going to deny he had anything to do with it.

But the truth is he's got a bank account that was opened in his name. He's got a million dollars that's been drawn through the bank account. And I'll be honest with you, the bank, the, you think to yourself, you've seen CSI and people think to themselves, oh, well, they're going to know right away when they check the surveillance. They're not going to check the surveillance camera if ever. His lawyer in a year from now might check the surveillance camera, but he's a public defender. And he didn't want to fucking put any money on a guy who was caught with the cell phone, the computer. He's got money. He's got a ton of money. He opened these bank accounts.

Like, this guy's fucking, it's absolute. And if that guy actually had a criminal record, even better. He's done. His lawyer's going to be like, take a fucking plea. You stole a million dollars. I didn't steal a million dollars. Where'd you put it? Right.

So that whole thing. So I explain that to this guy. I go, that's a fucking brilliant scam because I said, nope, the bottom line is they're going to take this guy and run with it. And even if he wins at trial or takes a plea or whatever, it muddies the water so much, they're never going to look for anybody else. Right. You know, I said, that's a great thing.

And the guy's like, oh, my God, that's great. So that's the whole thing. I'm saying this would be a great way to do a scam. these fucking people these ed they cut it up Colby's team I wonder why cuts it up and it says

it basically sounds like here's what I did and I didn't do any of that I didn't do that at all 55 million on Instagram 55 55 million shorts

read then comments on that video and I mean he is disgusted Yeah, but he is. Listen to what this motherfucker did. This motherfucker. He put people in harm's way.

He did this. He did that. Not, you know, me not thinking that, like, I'm pretty sure that the drugs that you sold all went to legitimate, legitimate healthy people that nobody ever got hurt on the drugs that you sold. But anyway, yeah, he goes to, he, listen, he was angry. He was an angry person. He was. one of my favorite clips of all time

from my podcast is you in episode 111. I remember I made it the intro of that episode where you're talking about the Salvation Army scam. He's like,

you're like, so I take my picture. You know that FBI's most wanted picture? I'm like, yeah, yeah, just use that. It's like you like googly eye like looking up.

I walk up and I tell the guy, you know, I'm a statistical surveyor. I just look back and I realize that's not a real job. And the,

The wanted post, the photo on my wanted post is the photo I used on the badge that I made. Can we stick that on the screen? That said statistical surveyor. And that is my wanted poster photo on that thing. And it said statistical surveyor. I'm not even really, you know. They're like, he seemed like a real straight shooter. Yeah.

His eyes weren't even straight. You know what I always loved about that. What was funny about that? Out of all the times, all the people I surveyed, there was really only like one or two people that ever said anything. And I remember I interviewed these two guys at like, we actually, I actually walked, we walked into like an Arby's or something. And I was like, hey, you guys, I could tell they were homeless, right? Because I'd seen them walking down the street, like two guys walking down the street that are in their fucking 30s looking disshoveled, you know, disheveled like they're homeless. Turned around and they were walking into an Arby's.

Like I saw, hey, you guys, I said, by the way, I'm taking a survey. Was this Gary? No, this wasn't. Wasn't Gary. No, this guy's name was. His last name was, I think, Phillips. Anyway, so I go in there. No, Gary, that was in, that was in Vegas.

Remember when the cops thought you were giving blow jobs in the back? Yeah, Gary was. Gary had. You almost gave it up just because you didn't want them thinking that. Gary had a problem. These guys were in Charlotte, North Carolina. So I walk in, I'm like, hey, you guys, by the way, I'm a statistical surveyor. And I'm taking surveys for the Salvation Army,

trying to determine where our next homeless facility is. And they're like, yeah, I'm not issues. I'm like, no, no, pay $20 cash right now. And I'm like, right now. And I always kind of pulled out the cash right now. And they're like, you're going to give me $20 right now and take a survey. Yeah, I'll fill out the whole thing. It'll take it five minutes.

And they're like, okay. So I remember I took the survey for the first guy. And the second guy, I'm in the middle of the survey. And as I'm really, he starts, in the middle of it, he's like, what is this for again? And I tell him. Now, he's already giving me. his date of birth, social security number, mothers made name, where he was born, state. He's told me almost everything.

Now he's answering silly questions like, have you ever been in the military? Which branch? Have you ever, you know, like, do you have a felony or a misdemeanor conviction or a felony conviction? Okay, what was it for? Like, silly questions. Like, I already have enough to steal your identity. So it's not like I say, what's your social security number? He said, what's this for?

He'd already give me the information I need. I can walk out right now and don't have to talk to you anymore. Now you're just doing it for the love of the game. Yeah. Now it's like, do I, yeah, now it's like, you know, I don't want him to say, yes, I have had a U.S. passport. Like those are the questions on, you have you ever had a U.S. passport? And then I don't want to apply for a U.S. passport. If he's had one, right?

Because that's going to be bad. So I'm going. And he stops. He goes, hey, man, he said, what is this for? And I said, I'm taking surveys to determine where we place our next homeless facility. And he was like, okay, okay. He goes, yeah, man, he starts looking around. He's like, I feel like we're doing something wrong.

I go, like, like, like what is, his buddy is, he looks at me. He's like, he's crazy. Like, he's nuts. And I'm like, and I go, well, what do you, what do you mean? Because I don't know. I feel like maybe, um, maybe you're trying to steal my identity or something. And I went, really? And I went, okay.

I said, okay, well, I said, why would I do that? He's, I don't know. And I went, well, I mean, are you rich? And he goes, no. No, he said, I'm homeless. He just told me. So I, I said, you have perfect credit?

No, I don't have any credit. I said, why would I steal your identity? I said, and people steal people's identities because, like, they want to use their credit cards or they're rich and they want to empty out their bank accounts. Like, do you have a bank account? And he goes, no. And I went, yeah, I don't, why would I steal your identity?

Whoa. Like I said, what's the value in that? And he goes, yeah, yeah, go ahead. What was the rest of the questions? So I answered one, two more questions, three more questions. And then I think, he signed, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he started asking to sign the form. Even though the form didn't require them, like, there did have a thing where it said signature,

but it was a surveyor signature. So I was supposed to say, some of like, let me sign it. And and I was like, okay, like, I get a copy of a signature. There was a whole thing on there. I could work with that. I was like, okay, I got your signature. I don't need your signature, but he signed and then they, and then they both kind of, uh, you know, $20. So I gave him the $20 and then they, they scurried off. And, but yeah, I, I always kind of remember that. So really like, only one or two. Maybe another guy was like, hey, what are you going to do with my, with my, you got my, you're starting to steal my identity or what are you using all this stuff for?

And then I just answered them again. He was like, oh, okay. And they just kept going. Do you just say that come? Yeah, I was like, well, and then it was, but it. Yeah, why would I do that? Yeah, but I mean, like, do you have perfect credit? Like, exactly.

Like, you're not independently wealthy and you've got $10 million in the bank and I'm going to empty your bank account. Like, you don't even have good credit. Why would I steal your identity? Not realizing that I'm going to make you worth something. Yes. Yeah. You're going to be worth.

Your dreams are coming true. Yeah, I'm going to pull a million dollars out of your name. You know, the hook on that 55 million clip is I'm a big fan of stealing homeless people's identity. And then Matt looks at the camera and says, don't judge me. And he says, I tricked him. God, tear. You can't beat that. Come on.

You can't beat that hook. That's God tear. I tricked him. I don't approve any of this. No, it's horrible. It's a horrible situation. I feel bad. Yeah, you should feel bad.

Well, I know I don't actually feel bad, but I know I should feel bad. And it's really the same thing. Isn't it? Isn't it? You know what I love about this? You're doing so well. I'm constantly, like, glancing over at Colby, but it looks like I'm looking in the camera. Like his eyes are right over, just over the lens to the side.

You're breaking the third and a half hole. Yeah, it's fucking great. Yeah, especially kind of what I was alluding to early, when someone was just going on something that's just crazy and Matt looks at me, I can just turn to the camera and it looks like he's just like looking at the audience. Like what in the world is going on? Yeah, you got a memorable face too. What else we can talk about? I don't know, Matt Cox.

You've been entertaining me for like the last hour. Well, the last 30 minutes I've made it all about me. That's right. Which is really what this podcast is about. It is about. You know what? There was just a podcast that we just released. Where most of the time, 90% of the podcast are just people come on telling a story.

Matt kind of gets this little too. since. And especially in the beginning, I leave their story in. But this time Matt had a funny story or some type of thing to add in the very beginning. And sure enough, this guy commented, he's like, I've been gone for a year. And the first time I come back, Matt's talking 80% of the time. Do you remember? Yeah, you know, I do. I remember that. Yeah, that. I mean, you have the backstory, too. And, like, when you get on a roll, like, you can't stop it. Here's what happens. Why would I stop you when you're on a roll? What fuck am I going to talk about? You know what's happened? What's funny is that four or five years ago, every video was like that.

Like, I'm talking 30% of the time. Right. And then. You were talking with crackheads a lot. Right, right. And I'm also trying to clear up the story or I'm trying to tell a funny story in relation to, because at that time, a lot of the people that were subscribed are really watching to watch me. Right. Like, they're interested in me.

But then as I started noticing in the comments, guys were a lot, what started doing the whole, bro, shut up. let the guest talk. This guy had a good story. It's not all about you, you know. And so I slowly started just kind of helping kind of tweak the story. Like some guy gets off on a tangent. I'm like, right, right, no, I understand. I understand.

But you were saying you would just graduate high school. There's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And then they'd go back. And so I would do that. And over the last few years, that's what it's become. And then in the last year, most of the comments are, bro, I love the fact that. that you let the guests talk. Most people don't do that.

Now, that's great. But every once in a while, there will be a video where the guy you can tell, you're 45 minutes in, and it's like, he's been arrested. He's in a negotiation plea, and I'm like, we're not going to make it to an hour. Like, we had a conversation.

I need one hour at least, and you're not making it. And I've already slowed you down a few times. And so then it becomes, okay, we're going to slow them down a little bit. We're going to try and talk a little bit about prison. And now I'm just going to start expanding. So I'm going to try and get this.

And then we'll even go like, hey, let's go back to this point. Because I know, like, what happened there? And then the guy's expanding and they'll talk a little bit about it. And then I go, you know, it's funny because that reminds me. I was in prison with a guy because almost every story reminds me of something. Of course, yeah. And people were like, oh, this guy's got so many stories. He's like, I got 13 years worth of stories.

You think every single day for 13 years, at least once a day, somebody told a story. There's new people in and out of the prison all the time. You were in Coleman. Tons of story. It's like the Ivy League of fucking federal prisons. Yeah, right. At that time, now it's horrible. But after COVID, it just got destroyed.

People say it's not fun anymore. So, yeah, so we go back and then Colby pops those back in to fluff it up. And now that guy's story's an hour and a half, hour, 45 minutes, where it was going to be 50 minutes. If I just said nothing, it would have been 50 minutes, maybe a minute. maybe an hour in two minutes. But then in the comments you realize right away, it's like, fucking cock, shut the fuck up. Like, they start doing that. Listen, if the story's good, it is what it is.

But I'm trying to get it over an hour. Yeah. This one was the most reasoned one was the West Watson interview and he told the Big Herk story. So, I did. In the very beginning, which it was, I was a drawn-out story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It has to be.

I, well, and I. Because Big Herk tied into West Watson. Well, yes. West Watson was, Big Hurk was the first, was the first podcast that West Watson went on. And it really blew him up. Right. Like from there, he went on a few other podcasts, started his own podcast, and it just blew up. Like, he really blew him up. And then so I got to tell the whole West Watson story. And so within 30 minutes, and we had a criminal defense attorney come. And so he broke, we slowly broke down the whole West Watson case and his last two

arrest and what this guy felt he was legitimately going to end up with. And so we did that over the course of, you know, an hour and a half. Yeah. Two hours? That works. That's enough. Oh, listen, and people like this. I think it got...

Two hours. It got 130,000 views so far. Three days. And you're doing so much fucking content, too. While we were filming, Tiger Woods was arrested. So then we cut up that clip that night, put that out. Did 200 to 500,000 on Instagram. Yeah.

You never know if it's going to... You never know. You just got to keep going. That's what you're good at. You just kind of... That's what I meant by the consistency. That's what I'm good at. I cut up that clip.

No, no, no, no. When I was saying the quantity over quality, I just meant like the bullshit quality that I was doing because I was like, you got the model. You have good quality, but you're not like trying to over package it at the front end. You're like, I'm going to do more episodes and it's going to be so good that people will watch it. That's what they do. That's why we move to that. Thank you. So what else are we doing?

So we don't end on a note with me. Look at us. Look at us, Mac Cox. Yep. We're here. I'm trying to think. Where was I? Was I living in the rooming house?

Or was I in the one? I was in the rooming house when you flew me out to, where do you live? It looks like the Sopranos. It was South Jersey, Mollick Hill. That was almost, we're recording on April. first. That was like March 30th, 2022. It was almost four years ago. Really? Look at that. Time flies.

Oh, I remember. I was struggling, bro. Like, I couldn't even go. I was like, hey, you know, like, I can't come. Like, I was like, you're going to have to fly me up. Like, I can't afford to. Oh, yeah, yeah. You were the first guy. I could, I could not. You were the first guy I flew up ever. Really? Yep. People had flown in before, like, when they were just going to be there themselves or whatever, usually like my buddies.

But you were the first, like, out-of-town guests that I flew up. I had brought David Satter in on the Amtrak for episode 92, and then you were episode 96, first one at the airport. 90, it's 90, you know, he's got all the, all then everybody always says, you know, we should be, what, numbering our episodes, but it's too late. It's too late for that. You can go back.

No, it's too much work. It's enough already. You have no idea how exhausting working on the, working on the quantity, over quality. We're doing three a week at three hours of pop, Matt Cox. I don't want to hear it. This is what he told me.

I fly up after we start to do okay. We're starting to do okay. I'm actually getting enough to actually pay my fucking rent with this. So I and but you were doing, you were doing shorts and you had these amazing shorts. I was like, these are documentary. These are a minute and 20 seconds or a minute or 58 seconds. They're like documentaries. They're amazing.

And so I was like, I got to go up there. And then, you know, you'd just. just moved to Hoboken? Yeah, that was the third time you were on. So I went up and I was like, oh, and I'm going to sit there for like a day or so, and I'm going to pick his brain. And I flew up. And then remember, he was like, yeah, after we did something, you were like, yeah, let's go to get something to eat.

And we were walking. And you said, you said, yeah, man, I don't know what I'm going to do, man. Like, I mean, you know, it's a lot of work. But, you know, I just wanted to grow faster and I'm trying. And you said, you said, you know, I'm thinking about. going with the kind of like your model. And I was like my model. Yeah, like the kind of the quantity over quality model.

And, you know, and just and I kind of was like, I smiled and I thought, and you just kept on talking. And I thought, I don't even think he knows he just kind of insulted me there. I don't think he realized. I think this fucker even. I was like, I'm waiting for the laugh for the ha-ha. Just joking. I'm like, no, he's not going to say it.

All I meant. I'm five minutes in waiting for the, oh, you know, fucking around. I'm like, he's not going to say it. All I meant, Matt, was that I was at the time, taking all the time I used to, at that time, I'd moved on from shorts and moved it to like making these documentary intros for episodes, which would take all week. And so what I was saying is, you know what? I'm going to move from the quality of like overdoing the front of it to try to get retention and just move to, look, let the product speak for itself because that's what you were doing and you were having success. Come on. Okay. It's nice. Yeah, that was a good,

Recovery. So, it's fucking great to see you doing great, Matt Cox. Yeah. I love it. So you'll do this again in five more years. Yeah. Yeah.

Anytime. I got to get you back up there to do one. We haven't done one in one. I should go up there because there's a bunch of, like, podcasts that I keep, you know, you know, oh, when you come to New York. When you come to New York. And then I, I'm like. You know who's up there, I think who's up there is Omni and a Hellcat.

What's his name? Oh, I know who you're doing. I believe that. Yeah, because we messes him. He said he couldn't leave New York. And we're like, we'll come up there. Yeah. And he didn't respondent.

All right. But he's like one of the biggest. He'll be on Julianne's in a month from now. Thanks, Colby. Matt Cox. It's the kind of thing you hold. He sleeps on the couch at Hotel Julian when he comes up. You hold that.

Listen, Julian, when I went up there, bro, I got you. I got a place for you to sleep everything. I get up there. The place for him to sleep is a blow-up mattress. He made it sound like he had a spare room for guests. And I want to mean blow up mattress, I mean they blew up the mattress while I was there. No, hey, I did. He blew up the, yeah.

I personally blew it up. And I'm not sleeping in a room. I'm sleeping in the living room. Listen, that is now a green room. It's, you haven't seen it. We've done some nice things. It's got a whiteboard. It's got couches with personal massages on them as well as heated backing.

And they recline all the way. You and Danny got to stop treating these guests so nice. Listen, I don't have it, Danny. I just went to Danny Jones's setup. My jaw was on the fucking floor. Oh, it's ridiculous. Listen, they walk into my place. They see my bedroom and seven feet over.

They see the studio. It's not that serious. But, you know, it's not just like a blow-up mattress on a wood floor anymore. Like, there's a couple carpets and a whiteboard and a couch and a TV. Danny's shooting his podcast out of the fun factory, right? Literally. It's insane. It's retarded.

I'd never see anything like it. Yeah. He went balls to the walls. Gym. sauna, ice bath, garage, private kitchen, bar. Yeah, he sent me. Open room with like 40 couches, home theater, the full studio. He sent me a video.

The Scarface thing in the middle. The office space that's not even used for an office there. The lobby at the front. I mean, it's unreal, man. It is. It's more than I would ever want for sure. Like, you know, I was like, what do you do? Just like walk around here and say, Danny Jones, John.

And like hear your name back to yourself, but it is fucking pristine. Yeah. And from the outside, you'd never know. Yeah. I like that. He's got the inside of his studio looks like he's inside of a pyramid, the pyramids or something. Yeah. Yeah, he's not upset about that.

It was supposed to be a cathedral. Yeah. But everyone thinks it's a pyramid. And he's like, this is great. Yeah. It works. It's on brand. Yeah.

We've got to work on the real rocks, though, for the background. They're not. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, you can't tell on. I'm like Danny Jones. You're rich. They need to be real.

Yeah. I was like, I need to go to the school of how to make money like Danny Jones. Yeah. That's what I need to do. I'll get there someday. Yeah. And a wife, two kids. Yeah.

Danny's got it figured out, bro. Buddy's with Joe Rogan. buddies with Joe. I think on my phone, like when he calls, it says Danny Jones, followed by Joe Rogan. Yeah. Hey, listen. He made it big time. Danny Jones.

He did. He did. That's my boy. I love that guy. Hey, you guys. I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. Hit the subscribe button.

Hit the bells to get notified at videos just like this. Also, we are going to leave Julian's links in the description box so you can go there. You can subscribe to his channel. He's got a ton of great content. Every once in a while, one of those guys will end up on this show, like when they're kind of two, three years after Julian, when they're coming down. coming down and they're like, oh, we're now at Cox's level. Yeah. So, yeah, check it out. Also, if you want to be a guest on the show, we have a website. We'll leave the link in. You can go there, go to the Be a Guest page. You can fill out an application, like five or six questions.

And do not incriminate yourself. Leave, also leave like a three-minute video. So you just take your phone and you say, hey, listen, here's what I did. And do it real quick and you upload it. No big deal. just so we can see that you, you know, you can speak and you have all your teeth. Thank you very much. I really do appreciate you guys watching. See ya.