Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Top 5 Unwritten Prison Rules (HOW TO SURVIVE)

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Top 5 Unwritten Prison Rules (HOW TO SURVIVE)

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Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine, and it's good for your eyes too, because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam, eye exams provided by independent optometrists. What I wish I would have known going there not to associate with certain people. Like, I mean, it's bad. I hear, Matt. Hey, Kiki, what's going on? But I don't think I had any base in my voice at all.

Hey. That's a 10-level drop. I'm going to tell you right now. Oh, I can't, ooh, I can't believe I can't say this. I wish I had known that because of my appearance, so here's what the podcast is going to be about. Okay. Talk to me. It's about preparing to go to prison. Here's why. I mean, you know I do like a keynote speeches, stuff like that. So I was contacted by someone who is working with an attorney. who is representing a white-collar criminal

who is recently and we'll talk about this he went to trial well he was indicted he went to trial he lost and he's about to go he believes he's about to go to federal prison is his collar the only thing white that's so okay so it's

I mean I just I want to know so he's white collar crime whatever you know I'm saying anyway God is so corny and Jess would think that was so cute is it a white guy Black guy? No, it's a white guy. Okay, I'm just, it's, all right, I'm asking.

So somehow or another, he worked for the, I believe, and I could have some of this wrong. I believe he worked for the municipality in his area, right? Okay. And there were allegations of fraud or misrepresentation, something along those lines. However, there was no money, loss, nothing like that. Somehow or another, he, according to him, he had irritated a bunch of people, upset some people in the government, wanted to renegotiate some contracts or something. People got upset. Somehow or another, he got indicted for this, went to trial, lost, and is about to be sentenced

to go to federal prison. So his, so one of the guys working with his attorney reached out to me and said, look, this guy may be going to federal prison here soon. And he's... What kind of time? Well, I'm going to get that. So, and he doesn't know what he, like, he doesn't, he kind of, he's, we're looking, they were looking at worst case scenario because he hadn't been sentenced yet.

And they were saying, we want to prepare him to go to prison. And I was like, okay, what do you mean? So they were, one, doing, like, self-defense courses. Self-defense courses. Yeah, I can explain. I can't, yeah, well, and they were actually, I sat through, like, a couple of hours of them. They were pretty good.

The self-defense course? Yeah, it was pretty good. Look, if you're a white-collar criminal, like, it's not like guys are getting into fights in the office, you know. This is a guy who went to, like, you know, he went to, he went to, you know, I'm sure he went to, I'm sure he went to, whatever, an Ivy League school. He went to prep schools. Like, you're not getting into a lot of fights in these schools.

So for him, he's, you know, he's like, what's, what's going to happen to me when I get the federal prison? Am I going to be attacked? How do I defend myself? Well, all right. He didn't grow up next to the project. I understand that. I understand that.

But a self-defense course is no way going to prepare you for any fight in prison. Never. It is like, I think it might. So self-defense is for a mugger that's wanting to get away. Self-defense is more like a brief interaction of some. someone that's trying to leave. Well, they basically, they did a bunch of stuff. I thought it looked pretty good, to be honest.

Okay. Because, and I watched it for several hours, where it was basically how to get the guy on the ground. Well, for, they were, I'll go over in a second. So, wait, wait, did you have a, I didn't do anything? All right. So you watched it and did you have a flash in your mind of, hey, that fight I was in, that might have helped me.

I was never in a fight. Well, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Okay. Yeah, I was never in a fight. I got bitch slap. No, at the bitch slapping, you're like, hey, you know, that maneuver there wouldn't have helped it wouldn't have helped um so what happened is so they were like look we just want him to be prepared for to go into prison like what's he facing what's he looking at like you know

what's the process we didn't we don't want him to say anything that could get himself in trouble because we've heard like they had heard a me talk before where i'd said look you know you don't want to say that that'll get you in trouble you don't want to say that like you want to say the right things. So I was like, absolutely, you know, you're going to fly me out to, you're going to fly me out, put me up in a hotel, pay me, absolutely. Like, let's do this. So I go out there and, you know, we talked, but here was the thing. Here's when you had just mentioned, you mentioned, what kind of time was he facing? Well, he didn't know, because here was a problem. The pre-sentence report, which is prepared by a probation officer.

You know, most people think probation officer is like something you get if you get probation. But probation officers work with the federal government and they will, in the federal sentence and under federal sentencing, they will prepare a pre-sentence report for the judge to help determine what your sentence is. So here's what's funny is the probation officer has more kind of almost more control over what your sentence was. will be than the judge because the probation officer can say, look, your honor, I looked it over. This enhancement doesn't apply. This charge doesn't apply. This should apply. He should get a reduction because of this.

He should get an enhancement because of this. Like they have a lot of leeway. Right. And they 99% of the time, they go with what's on the pre-sentence report. So a pre-sentence, a probation officer will go and talk to you. He'll talk to, or he'll talk to the defendant. he'll talk to the defendant's attorney typically at the same time then he'll talk to the victims well he'll talk to the victims he'll call your family he'll call he'll also talk to the u.s.

attorney right the assistant u.s attorney well this guy went to trial lost they come out they do the pre-sentence report they talk to everybody he gets the pre-sentence report and it says and i could be wrong it might be a month i might be a month or two off he's supposed to get like 14 months in prison 14 months Yes Right It's nothing Yeah that's camp status

That's right I said it's not even worth unpacking Yeah So He'll still be shit Now Burger King When he gets out of food

Right So Anyway So I was like Okay You're gonna go He's gonna go to Well first of all

In the district he's in Which I once again Don't want to mention it Right The specifics But in the district That he's in He would most likely

go to a low and within a few months they'd send him to either to a camp or probably just put him in for halfway house and he'd go straight to halfway house you're talking about okay you're talking about with a 14 month sentence yeah like the the time that he gets makes all the difference in the world and where he's going to go well no I understand that but I'm saying if he was in California with a couple of years he's going straight to a camp but in the jurisdiction he's in most of the time no matter what your charge is they send you to a low within six months They'll send you to a camp or to a medium, whatever.

Oh, yeah. You see what I'm saying? In this, in that district. Right. So, you know, like I said, well, I was like, I was immediately sat down. I was like, well, where are you out of? And he explained it.

I was like, they were like, oh, well, most likely. So here's the other problem. Sorry, let me finish. So he gets this pre-sentence report. It says 14 months. And it was like between 10 to 14 months. You know, they give you a range, right? Like, what a range?

What a joke. But so he gets it, and they're all saying, oh, you're going to a camp if you get that. The problem is, as soon as a pre-sentence report came out, immediately the U.S. attorney said, I want an extension of 30 days because he wants to go and argue with the probation officer that he should get more time. Argue or basically. Tell him, practically. So at this point, they're going back and forth with probation in writing. You do it all in writing.

So they were at the point where he's going back and forth, back and forth. Well, the problem is, based on what the U.S. attorney wanted, they want this guy to get like 19 years. What? Yeah, 19 years. So it was like between 17 years and 19. And they're arguing for the high end. So the PSI had 14. 14 months.

He's not even his lawyer. The PSI had a year in two months. Right. And the prosecutor wants 19 years. Yeah. Like that's just that much of an extension. That's a lot of. of filling in the blanks.

Hit him with every enhancement he could get. I still don't think they could get to 19. And I agree. But then again, here's the problem is that he went to trial. So he went to trial. He says like my U.S. attorney hate, the U.S. attorney hates my guts.

And everybody says that. And he said, my judge hates my guts. Now, in my case, I felt like my U.S. attorney really despised me. I felt like the judge, you know, obviously the judge is like, I'm pissed about what you did, but he was, he was like, eh, you know, he didn't really care

one way or the other. I feel like he felt, I felt like he followed the law, even though it was harsh. This is what he's saying about his judge. No, me. Oh, I'm saying it. About your judge or about his situation? I'm saying in my particular case. In your case.

Okay. Jesus, Christ. I'm trying to follow. In my case, I'm saying in my case, I feel like my judge was fair. He was harsh, but he was fair. U.S. Attorney, I definitely think, despised me. But he's saying, like, the judge hates my guts, the prosecutor hates my guts. Like, everybody involved hates my guts.

And they're going out of their way. So I feel like they're going to make sure that he gets at least, he's like, so I'm probably getting at least 15 or 15 to 20 years. No way. Look, I hear you. But how many people do you know where they go in and they're supposed to get, like, I've seen guys that were supposed to get like five years and they get 19. Okay.

Well, I've seen that with the goal. Most dope theory, but that's normally the PSI that comes back that says that. Right. You know, like for the prosecutor to have to pad the PSI, 14 months, padding from 14. And he doesn't get acceptance of responsibility. You know, they give you time off for accepting. So that's already without that. Right.

He also doesn't get timely accepted. He didn't get any of it. He doesn't get any of it. So if he's 14 months without any of that, he's going to try. So I figure maybe, like, I think he'd hide in. end at seven, eight years. I mean, I hear you, but regardless, this is what's happening. Right.

So when I sit down, they're saying, look, let's assume he's getting 15 years. They're like, so he's going to go, or yeah, they're saying like 15 to 20 years. They're like, so anyway, he's going to a camp and I'm like, wait a minute, he's not going to a camp. If we're assuming 15 years, he's not going to a camp. No, he might not even go to a low. You know, at a low they want you to have at least 10 or under. they make some so you already know no no no at low it's 20 and under it's 20 and under camp is 10 and under oh my fault right you you already know that going to trial and pissing off your prosecutor

is it is a major mistake automatically means they slide something in your file that actually ups your um security level i've seen that like 10 times it's like like like why are you at a medium you blah blah you what do you have four points i don't know why i'm out of medium i don't you know what i'm saying you know they they they slipped that little well i mean i went to a medium and i had camp points coming in but i had too much time right at 26 years so here's the thing that's that's that's ridiculous yeah so anyway so he's saying so his lawyer and everybody they're saying oh he's going to go to a camp and i'm like he's not going to camp they're like well he's nonviolent he's no no no he has to have under 10 years remaining to go to a camp and they're like well

we're kind of well then he'll go where and i was like he'll go to a low and they're like what's the difference. And I have to explain the difference. And I was like, look, even if he gets seven years, in the district he's in, he's probably still not going to a camp. You're probably still going to a low. And he was like, they were like, oh, wow, we didn't realize that. Now, if he's in California, you're probably going straight to a camp. If you have camp points and you're under 10 years. But not in the district he's in. So did you discuss the possibility of a medium him with them? No, because I just couldn't imagine

how he'd end up in a medium. I ended up in a medium because I got over 20 and I ended up in a medium because I was on the run for three years. Right. So I know I told you the story. You ended up in a medium because your criminal history is off the fucking chart. Didn't stop. But look.

Off the chart. It was, I'm not the only one. I mean, you know, their career consummate criminals is what my lawyer called me. Like I read that a thousand. I had to look it up at first, but there was a gentleman that we used to call Batman at the USP who was one of those CPNs or not CPNs, certified public CPAs that ended up taking his investors money. Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying?

How did he go to a pen? Exactly. He said they were attributing it to a fight that he had when he was in. like not high school but first years of college where somebody did a report so they said he's violent yes right

and was he black no he's white oh wow okay and he went to he went to say he said he got the enhancement for being black that's the invisible

black enhancement the black we call it the black hand but it slaps you but he he went to trial and won and then they reimbled

indicted him and the second time he lost. But he said the prosecutor was livid. And that's the little, if his judge and his prosecutor hates, that's what I'm telling you, the little piece of paper that's in your file that enhances you up. Okay. Well, I didn't discuss it. I'm assuming he's going to end up in a low.

I can't imagine he ends up in a, look, the guy has enough money that he could probably get himself out of a medium within six months. You know what I'm saying? like that he could, you know, put in whatever. Well, his lawyer, the same with Batman. I'm going to remember his name one day so we can talk about him. Same with Batman. He had a ton of money.

Listen, when I met him, he had already put in work. Like, I met him in the lobby. He had put in work at the pen. I'm like, I go, you're adapting like that to this crazy environment. You know what's so funny? Dude, this is like a Yale guy graduated. You know what's really fucked up? is that you thought putting in work,

I mean, when you said putting in work, you meant like he'd, he'd beat somebody up or stab someone, something like that. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. When you said, my first thought was, he's already busting people? He's wearing a, he's wearing a wire. Already in a pen?

Yeah, it's like, wow. He is adapting. He is it because that is adapting. That's it is adapting. That's what I think of adapting, not I'm going to get into this. Which goes both ways, right? but you're right you're right so all right so um so they could they could do that okay but but reasonable yeah is there sure there's a five maybe a five percent chance let's be reasonable

i didn't have to go over so the the fact is is he ended up like look i went to a medium but as soon as i was under 20 years they sent me straight to a camp i mean sorry straight to a low so basically i sat down with the guy they like you man i don't know where you get up yeah but go ahead two and a half hours while my counselor was white so i walked in i said hey i want to go to a low I did the, oh, and he's like, oh, oh, yeah. And he said, oh, I'm so sorry, Cox. I don't know what I was thinking. I said, all right.

On your way out, sit in Allen, please. We're going to be sitting him to a bed. Swaps some guys. We swap somebody out. That's right. You know this guy, Alan. You know, Alan, he's a career criminal. He's seen his PSI.

Hey, hey, remember this? Yeah, there you go. Listen, guys used to say that all the time. Like, guys would be like, oh, well, you know what that is. You know, and I mean, take me a. minute to go, I don't, he's got his arm, arm hair, it's hairy. So anyway, so yeah, I, so what I did was I sat down, I was doing over all the things like not to do. So when I told Colby that I had just come back, he said, he was like, well, what did you talk to him about? And I was like,

oh, you know, little things, this and that. And he said, that'd be a good podcast. He said, you guys should do like what it's like to prepare for prison. And I, you know, like the whole get hard type thing. Yeah. What it's like, so we should do what it's like not to be prepared for prison. I think, I think we did that well. You know what I'm saying? Anyway, so I sat down with the guy, went over everything, and it was funny how, you know, the, like, guys will listen to their attorneys and the, the misconception, like one of the misconceptions for this guy.

And, well, let's, I'll tell you something right now. If you're going to a, going to a low, which I explain, you're probably going to a low. And if you're under 10 years remaining in six months. you're going to be sent to a camp because he would have camp points right so let's start with like going to a low one of the things that attorneys will tell you is well when you get there if anybody asks you why you're there tell them oh my attorney told me not to talk about my case that's a major mistake like people think oh yeah yeah then they'll know I have an attorney and that yeah yeah that makes sense okay what that what that's saying to the inmates is

I'm a sex offender and I have a sex charge and I don't want to talk about it. So that's just a bad, you know what I'm saying? And this guy, I looked at this guy and I was like, like, don't make that mistake. Well, I mean, at a low, would that actually be a mistake or? At a low, yeah, you'd be in the majority. The biggest gang on the compound. Oh, well, neither did none of those guys over there want to discuss their case. So why don't you go hang with them?

Yeah. Hey, leave the pictures of your daughter, but go ahead. But go ahead. Oh, my God. You know, at Coleman, I don't, at Coleman, they, after I'd been there probably a year or two, they actually had to. Coleman Lowe? Coleman Lowe. Okay.

They actually had, they stopped allowing you to put pictures of your family up on the cork board because, because the offenders were, they were getting to fights over them. Not that they would, but they would be staring at someone or they would take somebody's picture. and a guy would find out and he'd get into a fight with him. So they said, you know what? You can't, you can't display any photos of any family. Like they didn't want to say what, any family at all. So, but anyway, so I explained that to him. Like I sat down, I kind of explained it piece by piece.

Like, you know, what to do, what not to do, what to worry about, what not to worry about. I had nothing to do with the self-defense portion of the training. I know you look at me and you think tough guy. Matt, I would think, like, guy like you, he can handle himself, but yeah, but I can't. Neither one of us, but go ahead. So let's start at a camp. Yeah, because, go ahead. And the camp's easy.

Like, you know, you're fine. Neither one of us have been there. You've been to high school? Yeah, you're fine. You're not getting extorted. You're not going to have to join a gang. You're not going to have to stab anybody. You're not going to get into, well, they might have fights, but.

Immediately if you get into a fight at a, at a camp, you're shipped. You're gone, yeah. All right. So most of the time, it's like you get, it's kind of like the low. Get there, get into a routine. And you work. Actually, the camp is like a full-time job because you, like, you maintain probably, if it's at a complex, you probably maintain the complex.

Right. And when you say, when you say complex, you mean, like, there'll be a camp next to like a penitentiary. Or a medium or. Right. And so you maintain the grounds. Right. You're, you're cleaning up. you got your so you're part of the crew that maintains the exterior of all the so everybody works

so they have enough people to feed so as soon as you get to a camp you're given a job that's going to require you to work you know what you know what's what's funny is and sometimes those camp people actually have to go into the pen or whatever institutions lock down and prepare the meals for those people so yeah yeah so it's it's it's when you're out of camp you're very busy, so you're very occupied. Also, 90% of the camps don't have fences. No. They'll have three to 500 inmates, and they'll be four guards.

Yeah. That's another thing. Never come around. Yeah, that's another thing. And visitation is, there's no visitation room. It's a patio area. Yeah, almost unsupervised. They pull in and you can greet them, walk them to the car.

unbelievable. Right. Listen, I know guys that have the keys to like a truck. Yes. They drive around. I know guys. They actually take the guards. Like when we, remember we worked for Mr. Harmon? Yeah. So did you, you knew that the staff parked at opposite institutions and inmate had, they had like an inmate courier drivers that would drive them. So they would like, they could call and some, would come pick them up and take it to their car but if you worked at the pen you didn't park at the pen you parked at the medium if you worked at the medium you didn't you know I'm saying you didn't park at the institution where you worked so no one can get your tag number right I mean Harmon told me that I thought I'm like are you serious you guys are really worried huh yeah you know yeah I was gonna say the other thing is um at the camp like Listen, the camps are so, like, off the chain wild that guys are, there was one, and I know I've mentioned this before because it still cracks me up.

And inmates were leaving the camp in Atlanta, and they were going out and robbing 7-Elevens and then coming back, and they have a fence in Atlanta, jumping the fence, coming back in with the stuff and then selling it in there. There were actually times when inmates would leave for the weekend. and they would have a homeless guy stay in their cell for them and be counted. Get out of here. Listen, there's an article, the robbery one, there's an article where the cops were like, we know where the inmates or where these guys are because they chased them from the 7-Eleven.

These guys had a stolen car. They jumped out of the car, ran to the prison fence, jumped the fence, and ran into the dorm and disappeared because they ran into a dorm with 150 guys in it. And they're all wearing the same thing. so and it was there was a whole article about it and wow oh yeah uh wow well i'd get them shut down yeah that well you know what you know what you know what they did like i'd be like dude what what you know all they did was they put up a taller fence up i don't even know if atlanta might actually be closed now i'm not even sure but they were talking about closing because

it was just horrible well it's in the middle of city it went to the it went to a medium yeah no no i'm not talking about the pen because they have a camp there i'm saying they were talking about closing the camp oh Oh, yeah. But it's in the middle of the city. Yeah. So you've got all these guys that are from the city. In the middle of the hood.

Yeah. In the hood. Like, this is a stupid place to put this place. So in Coleman, same thing. People will make drops. So listen, and I don't want to get anybody in trouble, so I'll be vague. I get, I regularly get phone calls from people that are in the camp that are eating chick fillet they're drinking alcohol there i mean it's just it's off you know from multiple

camps that i know guys and they and they're calling me and ain't on the institution phone hey what's up bro oh cell phones are rampant listen when we were in coleman there's like almost there's like one or two cell phones in the whole in the whole thing now there's hundreds of in the low there's hundreds in every single unit there's hundreds of cell phones yeah Pete said every single time they have a shakedown, he said they'll find 50 to 100 phones. That's the ones that they find. They're making hooch constantly making hooch. Wow.

It's off the chain. There's no controlling it. Well, here's what Pete said. My buddy Pete said that the problem was during COVID, the guys, the guards that could retire, retired. So they had to They had a rush to hire people To fill those positions So you've got guards that are

Or COs that are that are Retiring that are making $70,000 a year You're hiring a bunch of guys making $35,000 So Pete said the problem was Some of these guards have been there 15, 20, 25 years He said so you've The average The average experience for a guard at Coleman

He said prior to COVID was like 16 years on the job on average he said when he left the average guard he said the senior guard actually said the senior guard on the compound had been there four years wow he said so these guys have no an idea because it takes time to realize if an inmate saying this it's because he actually wants to do this if where it's like where do the inmates hide the hooch oh they hide it hidden here in the ceiling sometimes they'll do a false back sometimes they they know the cops know all the places if if if if if a wire comes up missing from a guitar string the new guards are like oh okay well i don't know where it is we need to look for it i don't know what what what could

you do with that anyway you could make you could make a shiv with it you could make um they make tattoo needles with it yeah and that's a bunch of tattoo needles so so there's all these things that they don't know they're still learning and so what happened and they're not paid anything. So what's happening is people are giving, they're bringing in cell phones. Like, you go buy, you go buy a $50 cell phone. I'll, I'll, I'll somebody cash app, you $500. I'll give you a, I'll have somebody waiting for in the parking lot with $500 bucks in cash. Bring in two, you make $1,000. Yep. Or $900, whatever, you know, and I'll put the money, you don't have to put minutes on it. We'll put the minutes on it. My family will put

minutes on it. I can use the phone. And so, so they're like, you know, I do the, I do two, were three of those a month, you know, I could make an extra $1,500, maybe extra $2,000 a month, that could be an, that's an extra $24,000 a year on top of my $35,000. That's worth it. Right. And that's not, that's nothing. That's not if I'm bringing in booze or I'm bringing in anything else. So anyway, at a camp, it's super sweet. In a way, it's very sweet. Right. Supposedly, the guards tweet you like, like they talk to you like your garbage. Because, you know, this is what I heard. Oh. Because of the lack of security. It's kind of like the halfway house.

Yeah, like they talk down to you because they know you don't want to go anywhere. Like you don't want any trouble. So they're not super polite and respectful. But then again, you're at a camp. You'll never see them anyway. It's like when I was at the low, you never saw any of the guards. You might see them, but you don't have to have any interaction with him. Really?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was one, almost the whole time I was there, probably a few years in, there was maybe one CO for both units. What? So for, and each unit had about 180 guys. Both sides. Both sides. So you have one guard walking, and they almost never walked around.

They almost spent all their time in the office. With the door closed, they can't see out. They got a window, but it's facing the hallway. You can't even see out. You're sitting in there playing on the computer or sleeping. I can't tell you how many times I'd walk by and see the guards are just out. They close the blinds, turn the lights off, and go to sleep. Yeah.

They know when the lieutenant's come around. He did not go come out until four. I'll set my alarm on my iPhone. I'm going to sleep for a couple hours. Don't bother me. so that's 360 guys he's supposed to be watching he's not that's when you were there that's when I was at the low and it's got to be 10 times worse now so so let's so let's so let's go back to the camp a camp's a joke you're gonna work well I mean there's no need to prepare him

and there's no need for preparation yeah except like this is a prison job and you're going to be at work and you're just going to be dealing with a lot of other people well you know and honestly a lot of stuff I went over with the guy was like you know a lot of of it was, I get mentally what he was going through. He had kids. He's got a wife. How do the phones work? How often can I call? How can I communicate? Like I'd explain core links to him. I'd explain how it worked. You know, it's like, okay, so it's like an email. Kind of, but it's not like an email like you think, you know, well, do I have access to the internet? No. But you could get a cell phone. But keep in mind, if you get called with a cell phone, you're probably going to

shoe, you're going to be shipped. So a higher. To a higher custody and probably maybe across the country you know right you're pretty close where where he may end up was probably on an hour or two hour drive from from where he there were a couple of camps and lows within a couple hour drive from where he is right so you have to decide you know do I want to make that risk now I explained to him also it camps lows pins whatever there are guys that will for a fee will keep your cell phone so they keep your cell phone they keep it charged they keep everything So if anybody gets caught with a cell phone, it's you. Not me.

You're keeping my cell phone. I'm paying you $25. Look, I know a guy right now at the camp that was telling me, he said, oh, no, he said, I don't keep my shit. He said, there's a guy right now that for, he said, like, 20 inmates. This guy's got like 20 cell phones. And he's getting paid like $25 a month for 20 cell phones. That's not even a dollar a phone. That's crazy.

He'd get $25 a month for each phone. For 20 phones. total yeah that's a chunk no for each phone oh that's a chunk of money yeah that is a chunk of money i said i thought he's living all right for all 20 no no but no and he's keeping him and he's like yeah he keeps he said if he gets caught then he gets caught he goes he goes he'll go to the he's not gonna don't tell anybody you know so anyway um so that's that's like the camp like the camp's a joke you could if you have money you can live like a king at the camp anyway i went over everything with him. And I also explained to him that Quarlings cost money, right? To use the email. Yes, that still

cost money. How that works. How legal, how getting, if you're fighting your case, how getting a legal locker works, like you have to have a special legal locker. Do you have to? Like, I explained everything. Like, hey, keep your lock on your thing. Lock it. Make sure you keep it locked. You know, if you think, oh, I'm going to go to the bathroom and come back, people will rob you. Like, that's a problem. Did you ever have anything stolen when you were at Coleman Media? you know what I had stolen one time was my MP3 player and I don't think anybody stole it because it was you know so when you got your MP3 player right that wasn't at Coleman medium though wasn't that this is at the low at the low I never had anything stolen at the medium oh um so at the low

I got that's when you could get MP3 players so I got the MP3 player but they had the charger was right out in the main lobby so you put it on there you know you plugged it in and sat there and people would leave. And so people didn't steal it to use it, right? Because you could only use it for so long. You had your number attached to it. What they would do is they would steal it because there was something inside of it you could steal, like the battery, and they could use it as a lighter. And I don't think anybody stole mine.

A couple of them had been stolen. And so I put mine on there, left, came back, and like an hour and a half later, I went back to get it. Boom, gone. And so, you know, furious. I bought another one. I never let that happen again. Like, I always just sat there and watched the fucking thing while it charged. So I explained all that, everything.

So I don't think that a camp is a big deal, right, other than being away from your family. So let's go on to the low. Yeah, because we've been on this camp forever. And neither one of us have been there. Neither one of us have been there. Yeah, but I've heard. I could see the camp. Me too.

I can see them visiting out in the, and I know. I can see them visiting out in the like the parking area outside with their family. Well, listen, Matt, going the, the, the, prison and jail experience based on it's completely different completely different like yeah you're with the brothers I walk in I'm a target yeah yeah they

I mean granted you may get more time swap your yeah that's true but you're gonna have an easier time well and and the only thing I think I got different is they get the perception that I understand how to walk around in prison right that that's the only thing until you start talking

Until I started talking, didn't they like. What was it, the Oreo? Yeah. Oh, Zach, you're an Oreo anyway. So I think maybe personality-wise people kind of took to me. And so I ended up getting a lot of lessons in like about three people would educate me on like wherever I was. Like at the medium when I was at the low, I had, I'm trying to think about the old guy's name. He was telling me he's like, he's like, look.

look, he goes, you've been in jail before. He goes, you've got to understand these people here have never, like, these are people who are used to the street, which means they'll call the police on you. That's what the guy told me when I, you know, I started at the low, I was there about two months, three months. Right. Before they realized that my points were 16 instead of a 15, and then they shipped me over to the medium.

I didn't know that. Yeah, I told you that. Well, then I forgot because I. Oh, yeah, I was there about, about 60 days, like, I didn't count it because it happened so fast I went I was there at first

because I seen the little because they had the open moves after five you know it was like so brief it flipped me out because once I had team for the first time

they shipped me across the street like two or three days later she's like oh wait your points are 16 they're not a 15 do you still are lower them well I didn't know

I didn't understand anything that was going on right so you're like oh okay no big deal not realizing I'm about getting shit Yeah. She's like, well, she goes, probably your first official team, it'll get lowered down to 15. I said, oh, okay. The next thing, you know, hey, Alan, pack it up. You're going to cross the street.

Like, I went by myself. It's like they grabbed me and put me in there by myself when I went in there to the medium. So, yeah, I was there like about, I would say almost 60 days. But when I was there, a guy was telling me, the open bay and all that stuff, I've seen it. I've seen it, you know, but I didn't really, because I didn't. didn't know what was going on right it felt like a college campus you're still kind of acclimating to the environment to prison like I've never I've been in county jail I've never been to prison so it was kind of hard for me to understand the whole concept of everything that was going on like it was very confusing to me you know um it looked like a college campus you go there and sleeping it like you walk in the dorm for the first time and there's like hundreds of guys moving around cups going to get coffee conversations you're like it's like like sensory overload yeah

Is it like, what the, what? Do you want to hear something funny? So when you were there, did they, did they kick everybody out of the dorm during the day? Like, you couldn't be in the dorm or the unit? You couldn't be in the unit? Just the house workers. Yeah, yeah, only the, okay, only the orderlies. Yeah.

So Boziac used to, listen, this is an escape charge. He didn't, you know, he's like, he would actually climb up under the bunk bed. all the way up into the corner with a pillow and a sheet and roll it up and go to sleep he's sleep until noon go to f-chow they call it go to chow come back

go back in there and lay down and sleep wow can you imagine what would happen if they've caught him some guard would try and say like that's an escape charge or that's you know they try and say some bullshit like that I was like bro that you can get in a lot of trouble he's like that I ain't going out there it's too hot yeah we used to be hot

That wreckyard. But really, you could just really walk the compound. It wasn't. Yeah. And again, it was a closed compound. So you can't be walking around. It's closed compound. You have the 10-minute moves.

In the daytime. In the daytime. Yeah. After child, they'd open up the yard and then you get the free movement. Yeah, yeah. Move around anywhere to stay in. Then you can be in the unit. Right.

So he didn't have to hide under bed. He'd lay in there. Listen, Chris Morero, which actually I've, you don't know who he is. But Chris Marrero told me, he said, I almost shit my pants one time. He said, he came back for Chow, laid down on his bed. And he said, and Boziak came out from underneath the bed. He said, scared the shit out of him. He's like, what are you doing on there?

Why did you go to there? He's like, I've been down in here the whole line. What I wish I'd known when I went to the medium, I'm going to tell you right now, oh, I can't, ooh, I can't believe I'm going to say this. I think I must have said this before. You may have. I mean, you think I know what you're thinking? I wish I had known that, so I wish I had known that because of my appearance, that and because I am, sorry, you've heard me say this, out here on the masculine scale, right, I'm about a five, right? In masculinity, from one to ten, maybe a four or five. I don't think I'm super masculine.

I don't know anything about sports. I don't know. I'm not a tough guy. I don't fish. I don't hunt. I don't, you know, I'm not a guy's guy. You know, I don't think of myself like that. At the, at the, in prison?

I mean, I'm, I want to say I'm hovering above zero. You know what I'm saying? Like, I might as well be wearing a dress. Like, I'm lucky that when I got to. I'm hovering about zero. Listen, I'm lucky when I got there. They didn't make me. That's good line.

I like that. They didn't make me shave. shave my head so the mop wig would fit better um so i i is that so i mean one here's what i really wish one i had so you know prior prior to going to the medium i was at the uh u.s marshals holdover right there was a gay guy there his name was kiki um and so you know there's only like 50 or 100 guys in one unit in one unit in that you never leave everybody's cool with kiki you know me what's up you know i'm not saying i'm saying i'm shooting the shit with him but i know who he is right i know why he was there and i remember

even talking to him one time saying um bro are you worried about going to prison he goes are you talk are you serious he says he says gay guys rule in prison he said exactly what some gay guy told me oh we rule in prison oh yeah he said he said he'll be there a week he said i'll have two or three new pair of shoes i'll have like he was going on and on oh guys will be coming up to me wanting to buy me stuff. That's why I kind of knew what was, when it started happening, I started realizing, I'm getting a weird feeling here. I feel funny in my tummy.

I don't like the way you're talking to me. I'm getting some kiki vibes. Yeah. So, you think I'm kiki? So two things happen. I get there and they send you to the one dorm. Was it A2? A2, yes.

I go to A2 first. So in the medium, you go to A2. You stay there two weeks until they figure out where they're going to put you. Right. unit team you're under right i go to a two i get there and as soon as i walk in i hear matt matt and i look up and i see kiki on the top tier oh my god so you have to walk up to where the guard station was in the middle you have told me this story and i looked up and i went i said hey kiki what's going on but i don't think i had any base in my voice at all so it wasn't like hey kiki

what's up man it was like hey kiki what's up i mean you know you know Not thinking, hey, hey, Kiki, like, hey, Kiki. Like, hey, Kiki. It was bad. So, one, never should have had that conversation. Never should. I should have been like, I should have, I should have looked around like, who? I don't, bro, I don't know you, man.

With that voice. With that, yo, man, I don't know you, bro. Who are you talking to? Yeah. Punk. Waving to me like, did you see that motherfucker? so but I didn't and so the second thing so the other thing I wish I'd known was that when you went to even if even if you were a five at that very moment that's a no I'm still I'm hovering around zero right so even if you went in a five oh I went negative right and with the Kiki that would have dropped you that's a 10 level drop not right that's a 10 level drop absolutely absolutely listen I'm lucky I had a good sell you could have gone bad so so next thing is the next day, I went in to get my clothes.

You know, you have to show up for a laundry or whatever. You know, it's a laundry to get your uniform assignment assigned. So I go in, stand in the line, get up to the front and say, hey, and they go, oh, what's your, what size are you? And I went, I'm like a, what size are you the waist? I said, I'm like a 30, 30, you know, 30 length, 30 waist. They go, okay. And I said, I'm like a medium or a large and, you know, shirt.

And he went, uh, yeah, bro, I'm going to give you a large and the shirt. You can come back, switch them out. He said, 30 in the pants. He said, yeah, bro, like they run tight. And I went, are you sure you're a 30? Because they run a little tight. And I went, I mean, I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure like a 30. He said, well, all right, man, I'm going to give you a 30, though, because I think you're more like a 34, 36.

And I went, no, I'm not a 34. Anyway, all right, I'll give you a 30. You can come back if you got a problem. I said, no, I'm good. He gave me the 30s. So basically, I put the pants on and I've got a camel toe. Like, I mean, it's bad. I mean, they're tight.

They're extremely tight. You are dropping. This is free fall. They're tight. I go to like the first or second day of chow. Kiki comes and sits down with me. Oh, my God. So I'm wearing camel toes.

I got a camel toe. toe and I got Kiki and another gay guy sitting down with me and you know and they're waving to their friends hey hey and I'm you know they're like oh that's oh hey man that's so and so I'm like hey what's up you know it's not good bro by the you have no idea I I wasn't until it wasn't until the second day I was there about the third day I was there wearing my pants where and I hate to say this because I know people are in the comment I'm going to say why you guys say it's a black guy because it was. Yeah, but why'd you have to say?

A big black guy comes up to me and says, hey man, can I talk to you for a second? And I went, yeah, let me talk to you over here. And I thought, where there's no camera? And I was like, okay, I kind of stepped a little bit and he goes, no, over here. I said, bro, I'm good. What's up? And he goes, oh, you need anything? And I went, no, I don't need it.

What do you mean? He goes, you need anything? like you need some shoes i get you some shoes what size you i'm gonna get you some shoes and i went no i don't need any shoes bro yeah you're wearing a booth man you need some tennis shoes man and i went no i'm okay said look i'm just saying i'm looking for me a friend and i went a friend listen listen if this wasn't the sixth time i heard it i'd cracked up every time listen and i mean i went i didn't have to go through this no i you didn't know kiki no when you come in cover

in tattoos people don't think he's they think he's they think he's making in a in a in a trailer somewhere so they're not thinking and i'm sitting there no tattoos wide-eyed and kiki yeah kiki friendly friended kiki wearing with a camel toe and i'm like um what seems like a friendly place i mean i don't you'll find a friend i don't what do you what i'm just saying like uh you use a uh use a use a use a punk i mean you you use gay right after no no no not at all through some base and suddenly the base shot i didn't even mean mean to do it the base shot my voice no no no no absolutely not no no no no i'm saying you know you could be on the down low i said no no no no no no no no no no no no i said i don't know what you're thinking bro

i'm good i don't know nothing about that i said i got nothing to say to you i don't need nothing do not get me anything turn around and bolted so then i'm walking like to chow and some guy Another black guy walks up to me. Once again, not a racial thing. What, alpha? Just happen to be. Whatever. You want them to, you want you all to believe that.

Go ahead. Happened to be. Listen, 60% of the compound was black. So, um, guy walks up to me. He was, hey, man, can I talk to you for a second? And I went, um, you know, I'm walking to like, no, I was walking from Chow Hall to walk the track. And I was walking back, just walked by the guard shack.

Guy was like, hey man, can I do something? Oh, can I talk to you? I was like, yeah, what's up? He was, I woke in the chow hall. You know what I was like? Okay. he's like I'm just saying like you need any food you need anything you let me know and I went no I don't anything he's like you need something from commissary I said no I don't need anything from

time I said man let me let me get you some shoes bro I said bro what are you doing I said I don't need any so I said no no no so then I meet I meet a no no I meet um Reese Reese my which is my cousin and I say Reese man listen what's going on bro this is what's happening the first time that Was that the first time you met Reese? Yeah, probably within, you know, we talked for an hour or two, right? Right. Because I met him at commissary. And then later that night, I went to his unit and met Jason Weeks and him.

And you know what? I don't even, it may have been Jason Weeks because this is the kind of, because I can't remember who said it exactly. But I know Jason Weeks was there. Reese was there. And Reese had made pickled, pickled eggs. Oh, which are amazing. The best pickled eggs I've ever had in my life in prison.

guy so and I say listen bro he goes how's it going and you need anything you need a coffee for some reason it came off different when reset it when a when a white guy said but go ahead go ahead go ahead and I'm like no I don't he's like you want coffee I get you coffee for something and I said no I said you want to hear something funny and he said what I said you're not the only person to offer me anything since I got here and Jason they both like like really what do you mean like one of the guys walked up to you white guys came up to you offered to give you sour slides and a lock and stuff like that some soups i said no no i said i've had a couple black guys come up to me and offer me and i'm like i don't understand what

vibes i'm putting off and uh rice goes well first of all you're eating lunch with punk and he said i've already he said i've already been the white guys have already told him that really your cousin's eating lunch with a punk by the way and he said you got to stop eating lunch with the punk and I went like it'd be like one day I happened to have lunch with the guy and I was like um which wasn't a good thing and I was like okay okay and he said and then I want to say it was Jason goes you might want to trade in your camel toes too and I went what he said you got a cameltoe bro and I said yeah they're they are tight he said tight you got a camel toe and I'm you know like he's like you got and I was like I didn't the guy

told me he's like I understand I'm saying tomorrow you go trade those in and don't leave the unit until pricks and then pricks they're pricks listen then then great advice a week later a week later I'm in the rec yard and I'm standing there leaning up against a fence and this black guy comes up to me and leans up against the fence and goes you need anything you know we got a lot in common that's what you said no no no it wasn't it wasn't it was you were heading towards the child hall I was heading out the wreck oh but you had already been forewarned that I wanted to talk to you you had already been told but I didn't know who you were right so you tried to talk to me and I thought if you were like whatever you said I was like yeah no no no no I'm done

don't you know we got a lot in common yeah no then it was then later uh Sheldon Sheldon. We couldn't remember his name last night. Remember? Yeah. Last time. So he comes up and he said, man, this guy, I told you, this guy wants to talk to you about fraud. He's here for fraud.

He tried to talk to you. He thinks you're prejudiced or something. I went, where is he? Yeah. He's here for fraud? Yeah. And he brought you over and you're like, hey, I tried to talk to. I was like, well, I didn't know.

Which was the first time I heard the story. But I've had some issues. He traded in my camel toes. Started throwing a little base in my voice. What's up? What's up? What's up? you know

tried to tough him way too late by then your reaction when I say you know we got like you're like oh this is like you went oh

Jesus not again what that that was your reaction like you need anything as I'm walking away you need anything

you need anything you God dang it so yeah that's what I always tell everybody the difference between the

the difference between the medium and the low is that at the medium if somebody puts the snickers on your on your pillow don't eat it at the medium at the medium if someone puts snickers on your pillow don't eat it at the low you can eat it nobody's gonna do nothing but

does it is it's a gesture the same are they saying the same thing at both places yeah one is just one is a little more ominous it could be bad it could go bad yeah that's right oh you know so I was gonna tell the the other thing was you were there when Remember the guy when we were teaching GED, one of the guys would walk in and he would put a, he put a Snickers on my desk. Oh, yeah.

And one time I grabbed the Snickers, open it up, and ate it. He got all this. What the fuck? Oh, you know who that was? That was Wayne. God, he was funny. Remember Wayne? Yes.

Because you know what? I think you had told the story to the class. Like one of the, and the whole class was like busted out laughing. We used to have a great time in there, man. Yeah. Exchange his stuff. Oh, my God. That was the guy, that was, I don't Bozziaks heard this, that was the, when you were trying to teach the guy how to count.

Oh, yeah. And he says, like I have my bitch count my buddy. You said, well, what if you have bitch, what if she takes advantage of you? Like, what if she lies to you? And what do you say? I'll put that pipe on her ass. Put that pipe on a, she, she count that shit right. And you said, go ahead.

No, you look, I remember I looked over as you and you were like, he's got a, he's got a point. He's a little rational, Matt. You got to, things operate different at the bottom, you know what I'm saying? Good times, good time. So, yeah, I wish I had known going in, I needed to present more of a tougher exterior and been a little bit more, you know, a little bit more aware of who I'm hanging out with. Right. Well, you know, at a medium, it's a, it's a blend of hard and soft. you know what I'm saying it wasn't it wasn't quite like a soft compound but you could operate on the people who you know you had the violent people and the people who weren't violent right you know what I'm saying and they kind of coexisted and you intermingled there's a lot of crap going on and people planning on killing people and a lot of fights vicious and yet there was still a lot of you know laid back people who didn't engage in any of that stuff yeah there are guys right doing writing business plans and then we have creative writing classes and yeah teaching real estate classes and

Yeah. So it was, it was a pretty good, it was a pretty good mixture. Well, I used to always say that it was, it was like being a non-enemy combatant in a war zone. Yeah. It's going on around you, but you're not involved in it and you see it and you just kind of keep your head down and hope that nobody, you don't get any blood on you. Right. But nobody's randomly attacking you. You're not being forced into doing anything. Right, right. So it wasn't, it wasn't, I would say it was, it was that bad. Like, um, for me, what I wish I would have.

known going there is um like not to associate with with certain people you know like um there were it's like like like you were like with kiki you know i was hanging out with some people from florida or with a group of guys especially the ones that were looking to put cases on people you know what i'm saying right and and that's what got me in the middle of all that stuff because they were like hey i heard you know a little bit about this you know what i'm saying so associating with them kind of kept my my thinking on that level you know what i'm saying so i i i don't i don't that was my first time in prison i was at the low the low was very laid back and like my warning there was that the people there still told the police on you right like

everybody's the police yeah so when i got to the medium it's not that everybody's the police everybody's trying to get time off yeah i was going to say it's funny because when i taught the real state class at the at the medium like I would walk in and I'd I'd say that shit like like I'd explain like here's how you hide your down payment like you got to you know you keep it in your bank for so much but you can always do this you can always write the contract like this here's how you can get like I'm telling like I'm giving some blatant fraud right never got a complaint at all went to the low and was teaching the real estate class and realized hey people tell the police here or they tell us the COs on you guys drop cop outs left and right i've been told that so i'm going to tailor

what i'm teaching and and just basically just teach the correct way right so i taught the correct way and i still had people dropping kite saying hey this this doesn't sound right with this guy saying he's saying fraud i'm like it's not fraud i'm explaining owner financing i'm explaining a wraparound mortgage like and i got called in twice and questioned i'm like like, what was said? Well, I don't want to say what was said. He said something about this, but I don't want to say who. And I was like, what are you talking about? They were that petty? Oh, it was very petty. I'm like, so I'm like, so nobody's saying that I'm, I said, this is somebody who doesn't understand real estate. That's why he's in the real estate class. And he's saying

that he thinks that I'm saying something that might be illegal. He's like, he said it sounds illegal. I go, here's what I, what I taught at my last class, because obviously it came from that class. Then I explained, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, now, I guess if you, if you don't know anything you might think that could be illegal i said but it's not and so like in my opinion you have inmates teaching other inmates right yeah so so but you're questioning the legality of the lesson then outline if if you don't want me teaching the way i did things then give me an outline how to do it i think that's too much that's too much for for the staff to do all right so stop teaching them the illegal way. Did you continue to teach you? You stopped teaching after they turned

Oh no, I taught. Oh no, no. Twice they, the guy questioned me. Twice I explained what happened. And twice, he's like, okay, go ahead. You're fine. He's like, you know, he wasn't that, it wasn't that, you know, it was always like, look, if I get another complaint. But then the next complaint I got was two years later. You know, so he's like, I think he actually forgot that he ever called me in the first complaint. Because you're like, hey, this guy said this and this and this. I'm like, yeah, that's not true. Blah, blah, blah. And he was like, all right, you guys, fine. You know, I'd never given them any problems or anything. But what was so funny was when I would periodically say something that was kind of fucked up at the medium, nobody ever said anything.

Like they were appreciative, like, oh, nice, I like that. That's a good idea. You said something at the other place. Well, it sounds like it's illegal. It's like, stop it, bro. You're not going to get me fired and get a Rule 35. That's not how it works. Over a get around solution.

Yeah. That was the warning I got for my 60 days at the low. like these people are going to tell on you for everything yeah that was the the forewarning I got no warning at the medium at all it just came out it just came out and and like I told you I got mixed up like I got mixed up with like a a guy named Bruce Canestra who was trying to jump on a murder case but he was trying to jump on so a guy told another guy about a murder he committed so Bruce is the third third party, he tried to get the guy that he told to get more information so Bruce could go to the police and include himself and the other guy.

Right. It just turned out to be a huge mess. I, um, oh, do you remember the guy that was selling cigarettes? There was a guy, short guy, um, not, not short. He's probably my height. Um, but he was like a gang member or something. Anyway, he had like a 30 year sentence. He had gotten it down.

to like 20 years he'd been moved and what he told me was because by this point I was still at the medium but the newspaper article had come out where it said I was cooperating with the FBI

on the politician guy so he immediately he's like talk to you about so now we're kindred spirits of course he's a tough guy he's a gangster he ain't telling nobody he ain't snitching on nobody but to me he explains to me

here's what's going on and he's telling me like look if you know anybody in here that's got a cell phone that's got and I'm like why what's going on he explained to me that at the last prison he was at he got 10 years off his sentence because he set up several guards he had one of his buddies go to a guard in the parking lot one of his buddies from the street go to the guard and say look I'll give you a thousand dollars if you'll bring in XYZ and I want to say it was it was it started with um it started it with tobacco. So the guard sneaks in tobacco. He starts selling tobacco. He's making

money. Tobacco's worth a lot of money there. So he's making a whole bunch of money. And then I think he started bringing in some weed and some other things, right? Like, I don't think it was ever really that big of it, that serious. But it was enough that he ends up contacting the, like the FBI, and they do an investigation and they bust. It ends up being three or four different CEOs who are bringing in stuff for multiple people at this point. And he ends up getting all of them busted and charged. So in the middle of the night, he said, they actually told him. Yes.

You're what, weren't both, he was telling both of us at the same time. I was sure I was going to say, I think you might have been there. Yes. Yeah. They came in and grabbed him. Yes. Yeah, in the middle of the night, they came like, like, with, oh. Yeah, they had hoods on.

Yes. They had hoods on and everything. They ran in, open the door, grab him, take him out, got him in the van or wherever it was that they got him. And they said, where do you want to go? Yep. And shipped him right then. and right where he wanted to go, he gave him so much information

and he said, and they wanted to get him because they were coming in the next day to get the cops. Yes, they wanted him to be safe. Well, he was doing the same thing at the medium or he was trying to do it. Remember, he wanted me to flip Harmon. I'm glad, see, I'm glad you remember more of the story than I do. Flip Harmon, what was Harmon doing?

I mean, other than just being a complete idiot. Well, like, you know that I was, like, Harmon got a promotion, you know that. So Harmon was the guy that Zach and I worked for in education. Yeah, he had a class. Right. And so Zach basically did all of Harmon's work. Do you know Harmon?

All of it. Harmon wrote speeches for him, by the way, wrote assignments, all kinds of things. He wrote, you put together, what, an entire meeting. He had an organization, got him a job as a reentry coordinator. We put together and he goes, man, that thing went beautiful. the way you set it up. It ended up being a teacher of the, was it teacher of the year or, or CEO of the year? Got a bonus and all that stuff.

Because I have. Do you know when he worked on Saturdays, he used to bring me food? Oh. I think I remember he, like a hamburgers and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that could get in a lot of trouble though. He bought me a, uh, uh, a porno DVD.

Whoa, didn't know that. I didn't tell you that. You didn't know, you didn't trust me much. I think you left. I feel like you didn't trust me. I think you left. Yeah, you came. That's right. You came back.

Right. And you were gone. You came back like a month later. Yes. But I ended up getting fired. Anyway, it's a long story. And he still. You did get fired for using the, um, for using my computer.

My computer. He got me in trouble. He got me the only time I'd ever been written up. I had access to write resumes and I was able to save the resumes. Yes. And you started writing your legal work on that computer on that computer. You're in saving it. Now, you're not allowed to save.

First of all, inmates aren't even supposed to have access to computers. And two, if they are, they're certainly not allowed to save anything. Right. And I had access. And when I was, and you know how that happened? You know, can you imagine firing somebody for like working out and save legal work? It's like, you're fired. What?

Right. It seems silly now. But in prison, you and I know, that's a big deal. Yeah. So what's funny is I was doing somebody's resume and we were going to lunch and we were about to leave. And I said, print it because you. Yeah, you said, yeah, you said leave, no, you said leave on the, leave the computer on, don't turn it off. You said, so you said, don't turn it off, because I wasn't done, so printing it didn't doing good.

It would be deleted. Yeah, you said, don't, so, that way it won't be deleted. I said, well, I'll just save it. And you went, no, no, you can't save all. I save them all. And I, you go, no, you can't save on that. I go, yeah, you can. And I looked and I said, boom.

And I, this, you know, John so and so, Steve so and so, Bill, so and so. And you went, you can save? He was like, oh. And I was like, yeah. The moment of, oh, my. Next thing I know, Zach is like, hey, do you mind if I write my motion on this? And I was like under my code. Like, I had a special sign under my username.

I was like, yeah, that's fine. Because I can't, my username won't allow me. Yeah, I probably tricked you. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that's fine. I buy a piece of shit like that. Listen, next thing I know. S-I-S.

A month later, you're not writing one motion, bro. You're writing a 2255. You're writing motion. month is like a month or two later i'm looking at my saved bin there's all kinds of shit saved by you and then one day i get called in yes s is and hey mr cox you're you doing legal work for people no you know that was me that was me you know do you know i was it do you know do you know an isa i remember they said do you know an isaic allen my first thought was to deny it and i went no they go you know him you you you you blah blah blah and i was like oh you mean you mean zach

I was like, oh, Zach, I didn't know his legal name. It's straightening. It's like, it's stupid. So it's strictly platonic. I don't know what the hell is. Should have said. Should have said, yeah, I know him. What do you do?

Come on, man, you've seen my jacket. You know, I'll tell you, I'll tell you whatever you want to know. Let's put his ass. Let's put his ass away. What the hell was up? What's going on? And then you got, yeah, you, oh, I remember too Harmon called me and he goes, listen, Zach's in the shoe.

I was like, oh, I did go to the shoe for that. No, no, no, I went to the shoe for something else. else. Whatever it was, I remember. Because he got me out in two days. Harmon came and got me out. When he called. And he came and visited me.

Listen, when Harmon called me in, he goes, listen, Zach's in his shoe. He was like, I don't know how long he's going to be there. He said, he goes, I need to know. What do he say? He said, but I know that you can take his place. Right? And I go, well, you're wrong about that. I said, I don't know what he does.

I said, I do this and this. I give it to Zach. I don't know what. he's typing up or writing in he's like oh god that's what i was afraid of but yeah somebody was trying to set me they wanted me to set harmon up right i can picture the guy too huh and and really like if i would have pushed i probably could have but i just didn't want to because you guys like you will that's why he gave us that spiel about like you'll get i got he showed me all of his paperwork of how much time he got off yeah right

And I'm like, wow, that's tempting. But I'm like, I don't want to, like, I didn't want to do it. I'm like, I don't want to do that. Right. I don't want to do that. I feel like that would be disturbing my comfort level. I don't know. It just, I didn't.

Clearly, I don't understand what he's talking about. Morals or ethical. I don't understand. I don't know. Like, I thought I had it nice. You know what I'm saying? He paid me the, but I could have it nice for less time. He paid me the maximum pay.

He gave me the maximum pay at all. time and like I said he snuck in food oh listen and you were robbing a blind listen he had he had a cabinet that Zach could close and he would close it so that the bolt didn't go in the hole at the very bottom so when Harmon wasn't there he could pry open the cabinet and he could pull out listen Harmon used to tell me folders yeah everything we go we have a budget of this so let me know what we need to order yeah come on man I I had it made in the shade. Oh, you're getting pins and all gel pins and all kinds of

you know, sitting here right now like at the time it was like wow, but looking at it now, it's like, this is so petty, so silly. Yeah, but it's a big deal. Back then it meant it meant a lot. I love and I love that job and that's what I was going to tell

you like Harmon had been there three years and he only had one person graduate. When I took over as his tutor, he had 17 people graduate. Hungry now Now What about now

Whenever it hits you Wherever you are Grab an O'Henry bar to satisfy Your Hunger With its delicious combination of big crunchy salty peanuts covered in creamy caramel and chewy fudge With a chocolatey coating

Swing by a gas station And get an O'Henry today Oh hungry Oh Henry Wait in in like a year and a half. Like all of a sudden they started, people started graduating.

Like he had no one, like, he could care less. He didn't care. He didn't give a shit about any of those guys. Like, I don't give a fuck if you learn or you don't learn. Yeah, he was trying to run out the clock

so they didn't have to even take the CD. So. Yeah, so the guy, and that's what it was. Like the medium to me were just a, a bunch of people trying to go home, like trying to, set whatever they could set up to get to go home.

That's all it was. It's like how, because it was an epidemic on that compound that, I guess people would have killed somebody, go to that medium and say, hey, I killed somebody. Really? Yeah, buried the gun at the stop sign on 34th and 16th Street.

Listen, I remember a guy, so I tell you a story. This is at the medium. There was a guy doing tattoos. He had tattooed a guy, a hand with a knife stuck in, his back, right? So all it was was the hand and half the knife and like blood, right?

And so it's like, you know, stabbed in the back or something, right? And this was a guy who did legal work. So he finishes a tattoo and like four or five days later, this guy just disappears. I don't know what happened. Two, three weeks later, a guy who he was doing legal work, you probably heard this one. No, is it the lower medium? This is the medium. Two or three weeks later, a guy at the medium disappeared.

They indict a guy that he was doing legal work for, which is weird because he actually got the knife, which is like stabbing someone in the back, tattooed on his own back. He was doing legal work for someone. The guy, while they're doing the legal work, the guy explained that he had been enhanced or given extra time because it was alleged by one of his co-defendants that he had murdered someone. and buried the body and had and you know shot him whatever now the guy had disappeared they never found the body so they couldn't charge him right but multiple multiple people said he killed him like i was there when he got shot another guy hey i was there i know he told me he buried the body blah blah so but they couldn't do anything but they ended up giving him an extra however many the judge said you know what i can what is that when they can take other stuff into consideration um relevant conduct yeah but you know based on

relevant conduct one of your other co-defendants was murdered your other two co-defendants are saying this I'm going to give you an extra 10 years or five years I don't know what it was so this guy at the at the medium who was doing his legal work was saying look that's not right they can't do that blah blah blah but so he insisted I can help you blah blah blah so as he's explaining it to him or his case and helping him fight his case he becomes a you know confident confidant And the guy, the client, he ends up convincing the client, I need to know everything about the murder so I can help you to explain a way. Because what we don't want to do is talk about this and have someone find the body. Like, where's the body?

Is it someplace that is connected to you? I mean, is it in a field? He's like, no, no, no, no. And he explains like, it's in my grandmother's backyard. even if my grandmother dies, that house will go to my mother. Because he was saying, like, what if it's in a place where it gets dug up? They find the body. They find the gun.

And he says, okay, well, what about the gun? He said, no, the gun's with the body. And he's like, oh, okay, good to know. Thank God we're on the same page because I'm here for you. Right. Guy gets the FBI. Guy explains the whole thing. They go.

They dig up the backyard. this guy gets moved by the way so he gets himself moved well once they confirm the accuracy right once they confirm it and keep right they type so at the same time just before he gets moved he has a tattoo guy tattoo stabbing the stab thing on his back was it's funny because you're the one that stabbed in the back why would you get you the whatever he felt it was I'm the stabber I'm the I'm the guy stabbing people in the back so he does that he gets moved a few weeks later the guy's indicted you know they show the marshals show up and

re-arrest you in prison like they come and serve you your shit or whatever and then next you know he's on the thing and he gets moved back to wherever and um yeah that guy who had solved that case somebody was telling i don't know what the outcome was other than i'm sure he got immediate release or his time cut in half or 60% or something i don't know what it was because by the time all that was happening but that was a huge buzz on the compound like holy Oh, shit. Yes. And then I got moved so I don't know what happened.

Oh, I remember all those. There was about seven or eight. It was unbelievable in my mind that people would go and talk about a murder they committed. Come, I can't get that lucky. Everybody's so, so they're so closed-lipped around me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You almost got someone talking about a murder. I actually had somebody who blatantly said something, but he was with his brother.

And his brother was like, hey, yeah, yeah. And I was like, yeah, let's not. because I knew immediately the brother was like, the fuck did you just say to this guy? Right. And so they shut it. So his brother kind of shut it down. And this guy kind of realized like,

oh yeah, I probably shouldn't say anything. And then I jumped in. I was like, yeah, yeah, we don't want to mention anything like that. I said,

let's just keep going. And I, you know, so I was writing a story. And I never went into it or pushed it or anything like that because I thought there's no way he's going to give me anything.

And I already had my own shit in the works. Right. But if his brother hadn't been in there, it could have been a different story. but yeah that's you're always out of paper almost out of paper yeah yeah but yeah I couldn't believe so that's the one I definitely know about that one you know I was just thinking about the guy that told you about the cigarettes and the other guard the the story he told is coming back to mine because he used to tell me he told us that he called the guards the guard had bought cell phones

And he would call the guard Or the guard would call them from home On the cell phone in the jail And they talked to him Like what a idiot What an idiot that was Listen I interviewed a guard That was a guard at

Rikers Island Oh it's all my Listen you couldn't This guy's story It really should be like a series Because think about how unique this is This is a guard Who's people in prison

or in, you know, whatever, the jail, it's Rikers Island. I don't think it's a prison. I think it's jail. But the people are there for four or five years sometimes, he said. He's literally, he first, he started bringing in, same thing with this guy, started bringing in cigarettes, then it became drugs,

became weapons, became, like, became all kinds of, then he starts getting other female, or female guards to have sex with the inmates. So they're getting like a thousand bucks. He takes the guy, walks him into a closet where the female CEO is already there, has sex with her, the guy gives him $1,000, he gets like $500 and she gets $500 or something like that.

I forget what it was. Some of these guys are in there for years, he's like, and they got tons of money. So he said, to give me, you know, five grand a month when they got millions of dollars, he says, it's nothing. So, but he had a story that was actually optioned by Will Smith. it had been re-optioned a few times he said and then Will Smith did that stupid slapping thing and they dropped it

they said yeah we're tailoring or tapering back on our um Will Smith well no yeah on our his Will Smith's production company who was saying they were going to make it into a series or a movie they were like yeah we're going to we have to drop some projects this is one of them

but if you hear his whole story like you can it's super unique so it's like a instead of a dirty FBI agent or a cop it's a dirty CO and the stuff that's happening like he's meeting with people on the outside like he's arranging things from the inside he's yeah it was multiple people or just one guy no multiple this went on for like i'm going to say seven or eight years it got so bad that he said when it really started clamping down he asked for a transfer because he said i knew things were going bad and he transferred

to another facility for like a year and he said they busted him at that facility he said i knew something was happening because too many people knew something was going on or things were going on because there were other guards he said nobody was doing it as much as me right all right so the last one

is the penitentiary the pen um so um so do you have to real quick in the pen you get to the pen because everybody you watch these things about

it's always the pen you get to the pen do you have to immediately does somebody come up to you and do the whole who you run with uh you got to join a gang you got a fight. Well, all right.

So I went to Beaumont and it used to be like that because when you, in the staging area, once you got all your stuff, they would bring you out to a certain area where you could meet up with your car and then they try to arrange and set it up. But Beaumont had become bloody Beaumont. Yeah. What's your car? What is your car? Well, and that's it. And if you ask me, what is the one thing I wish someone would have told me going to the pen? would be not to join the Florida car.

Because I've lived in Atlanta, in Georgia, and I've lived in Texas, a majority of the time. I could have been in the Texas car in Texas and been in the big enough numbers that I could have, like, laid back. Right. Instead, I tell them I'm from Florida, and I get into stupid-ass Florida car,

which was ridiculous. So it's like a group, like a little gang, right? Yes, yes. a car is they in a penitentiary everyone kind of groups up based on race if you're white doesn't matter where you're from you got to be there if you're Spanish depending on what gang you're in seems so racist yeah unless unless it's the Spanish against another race and if it's the blacks against the white or the Spanish they have to team up it's all it's all kind of set up that way but black people separate by cars like cars if it's if it's a race war it's

generally a compound. A race war is the whole compound. Okay. So, I mean, very rarely does it get to that. It got to that close one time. Anyway, it's a funny story because I met a guy, because there was a race

war in another prison and I met a guy that was at our prison. They said, oh, yeah, I was there for that. He goes, and he goes, the race war set off, he goes, I was in education and I went all the way back to my cell without fighting. I said, how'd you do that?

He goes, very carefully. He said it set off, and he grabbed his stuff, and then he just, like, walked through. The door was open. He went out the door, and he just, like, made his way back to the cell. Like, if something would go on, he'd kind of back up against the wall. And then he'd come back out. It's his way, like, a walk that's normally five minutes. Took him about 35 minutes.

It was going off the whole time. And he made his way all the way to his cell without having to fight one person. I was just dug it. Ooh, that looked painful. Okay, here I go. But I would have never joined. I would have never told them I was from Florida. Why?

Because it was too small of a car. Those were the worst people I'd ever met in my life. Those were the worst. You know, like thinking back, so like I keep in touch probably with about 10 to 15 people okay right from from the from the pen none of them were from florida right those were the there's only one this one is chad but those were the worst people i ever met in my life they were horrible like i couldn't stand any of them there wasn't one that i even like i'm there were there were jackers people masturbating there are people who

would masturbate right there at the table and in the war and the fight against each other. I told you about the one time with Ice Man. Listen, I love that story. Right. She tell us story. Can you tell us story? When Ice Man, like, tells us we're going to war. So like, I'm in my unit and they're like, hey, man, you know we're about to go to war with D.C.

I'm like, what? With a D.C. car. With the D.C. car. And I'm like, what? He goes, we're going to war, man. Do you have a knife? I'm like, no. I had been there.

probably about eight, nine months. I had a job in Unicorn. I was making good. I was ecstatic. I was doing legal work. I'm like, okay, I found my little niche. I can do this. Like, now, now you got to go to war. But I got a job at unicorn. I know, like, but I'm making money.

So, yeah, so we're going the war. So what's happening is it's supposed to go down in three days. You know, everyone's supposed to suit up and we're supposed to meet on the rec yard. So as each day is going, Iceman is making announcements to the, like he'd go to different units and get, like, if it was four

buildings, yeah, it was, um, no, it was three, it was four. I think it's either three or four buildings. So he would go to each building to make his speech. So when he got to our building, which was the first one, you know, all of us are in there. We're all gathered up. He's come in during a move. In a cell? Yeah, we're all gathered up in a cell and he's making this, you know, this is war this is when it go down we're gonna let these people know they can't do us

just any kind of way he's making this long spill right and like get ready I've already got my knife you know people are telling me how to strap it to my hand so if it gets bloody

it doesn't slip like the whole fuck like every day I'm like like oh god please don't let me die like I'm thinking I just don't want to die in this war if I got to stab somebody

you know what I'm just like I don't know I never could figure out how I was going to go through with it to stab somebody or be stabbed you know and I was terrified so he's given the spiel blah blah blah blah blah blah he's like all right

everybody ready everybody straight everybody straight you know I'm like hey I got a question you know because it's quiet he says that you're like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he's like yeah what's up bro I said uh why are we going to war Like, what did we warn over?

What happened? Because all the preparation for war, nothing included why. Right. Right. And he go, man, one of them D.C. dudes made a move on my bitch. What? Yeah, man. One of them D.C. mood dudes were flirting with my pump, with my boy.

That's what he called him, my boy. Boy, yeah. I couldn't remember the term. I was trying to hit on my boy. I'm like, so we're going to war because someone was hitting on your boy? Yeah. I'm like...

Sounds like a you problem. I'm like, I go, yo, bro. I'm not going to war over some... That's what I'm like, I'm not going to risk my life over a... I'm not going to do it. Oh, what? What? Because he run up, but like, what, what?

I said, bro, I'm not, I'm not going to risk my life over some, bro. I said, I don't even get down like that. I'm not going to risk my life. Oh, bro, hey, hey, you make you think long and hard, boy. Think long and hard about this. Because you do this, you on your own. You on your own. Ain't nobody standing with you.

You on your own. I'm like, okay. Deal. I'm out of here. You're taking the knife off. You're unrolling the knife. Yeah, good. Yeah, I'm out of here.

You know what I'm saying? Then like a couple of, actually, we didn't go to war. Everybody, like, after I did that, it was like, bro, I guess when I love people, like, dude, I'm not going to war with some fucking it. I don't know what the hell of you're talking. Everyone's like, man, I'm glad you stepped up and said something, bro. You go, I'm glad you asked him. Everyone's telling me that. You know what I'm saying?

So it was just, they were horrible, bro. You know, what's so funny about this Iceman guy, before he got there, everybody was amped up because he was coming. we had meetings on the rec yard ice man coming ice man coming man coming man he'd do legal work you know been around 20 years you know and and like I remember meeting him and I didn't even know much legal work but I remember meeting him and saying like when he talked to me about law I remember thinking to myself this guy's an idiot right this guy's an absolute he knows absolutely nothing about law like I said that's the worst part about the system is that you can know nothing and fight and at no point

will the court ever say you don't know what you're doing so you always seem like you know how to prepare a doc how to prepare a motion how to argue emotion it always seems like it always seems like you know what you're doing

and I learned it's mostly just plagiarism right like I stole language like all my motions were and then once I developed a good one I kept the basis and just used it over and over and over and over and over so I mean

but I could understand the concept of it and I remember thinking to myself this guy has no concept whatsoever you know but it's and this is the guy they called the leader they couldn't wait for him to get there to take over the Florida car

now we're gonna be straight he's coming and he's really nothing but a problem but an idiot and he's nothing but a problem yeah got us in the war with a DC car over a boy I'm like are you kidding me are you and like

this was going on this was at least a three day build up without like anyone saying why we were going to war right like like you guys don't even ask why you're going to get killed ask some guy he hit on this boy so what so so you all right so i would have rather been in a texas car because they had big enough numbers i was in texas so like i think there was like 2,800 people on the compound and texas car was at least a thousand or 1,300. Right. And whereas Florida was probably like 180, 200.

If I had been in a 1,300 person car, like, I could have, I could have just been wallpaper. Right. You know, they just walked by me. And I could have stayed out of, plus, I got along with all the Texas people. I lived in Texas going to college long enough that I could have just been in the San Antonio Austin car. Most of those guys were from Dallas and Houston. So a couple of people from that area I could have just mingled with, you know.

I'm saying. Did you leave from the pen? Get out from the pin? Yeah. No, I went back. I went to Jessup, the medium at Jessup. Oh, okay. Which was much, much, much nicer than Coleman because it was smaller.

Jessup doesn't even have a thousand inmates. Whereas, you know, Coleman, like, Mainline and Coleman was, like, we remember one day we calculated how much time we spent standing in line? Oh, yeah. like one we're gonna it wasn't just but it was it was for everything for laundry it was for just everything across the word how long for this I'm gonna yeah remember we we we stood in line for like a hour to have going all right so that comes up to about a third of our time yeah it's outrageous having for mail call yeah for 25 minutes for mail call yeah yeah we're like okay

there's and you get I mean 24 hours yeah you spend like four hours a day standing in lines it was like I thought that was hard but the food started off great at Coleman and then it kind of went downhill but nothing compared to how bad the food was at Beaumont Beaumont was a nightmare I think if I would have left there

and went anywhere if I'd have started there and left there when anywhere else it would have been way better but Jessup's food in the compound just the laid back the unicorn it was way a much better experience I had almost no problems none no there's no cliques or

gangs. There was nobody with me or none of that. It was way much more laid back. I loved it. So you went to two, you were, did your time at two mediums. Yes. And a pin. And a pin and 60 days at a low. 60, 70 days at a low. Okay. And I did my time at three years at a medium, nine years at a low. You never got tired of that low? One year at the, uh, U.S. Marshall's holdover. I did, I mean, I don't know about tired. No, I don't, that's wrong. I shouldn't say that. I didn't get tired because I was in, I had a good routine. Like you said, you get into a routine. You're like, I'm good with this. Like, I'm good. This is a good routine. And I had a bunch of, you know, I had friends. So it's like I got to. Oh,

you're writing books. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I'm writing books. I'm making money. I'm building a portfolio. I got a bunch of good friends around me, good guys that I like. Like, this is a good. This is, I'm bidding, you know, pretty good here. Like, there's no reason to to leave. Now, I'm probably, I would have been okay with going. to a camp, but we've had this conversation, but my mom came to see me every, you know, every two weeks, my mom would drive up from Tampa. Right. And if I went to any camp anywhere, she would be, the closest, closest one she'd be to would

be Miami four and a half hours away. She's never going to be able to make that. She's in a wheelchair. It's not going to, it's going to happen. So that and the combination, that combination between that and I also had like a, a cue of stories. It's like, you know, I'm finishing this. story it's going to be another month and a half and then I'm going to do yours and then after

yours is I'm going to do with this guy here's and so I had a whole thing you know and I'm like you said a good group of guys around you makes your time so much easier and you know it's also like the fear of like moving right it's such a pain in the ass to be moved you know and getting your stuff to follow you listen when I went from the medium to the low it took about two months for my stuff to get there it from across the parking lot that's how bad it was oh my god um you know they had done some new protocol where it used to be they would basically take your shit throw it in the van with you and drive it across when i did it they had to mail it you're mailing my stuff they said yeah from now on we have to do this that's

why it's taking so long and then even then it was months and months before i got so after a couple months so i was going there up there every like other day asking and every time i was there like Cox, I swear to God, if you come in here again, I'm going to this, I'm throwing you in the shoe, I'm going to, that happened after the first two, three weeks. And then, then I would go and I just knock on the window. I'd be like, God, God. And I go. And then finally. And then finally one day I just got called. You know, they called me. They said, I will call you. Of course, everybody else was like, don't wait for them to call you. I know guys stuff that's been sitting there. Like the guys that worked up there said, there's guys stuff that's been. been sitting in the corner for a month before they call. So go up and ask. He said he's going to throw me in the shoe. And they're like, he's throwing nobody in the shoe. He might, he goes down.

He might handcuff you. But when you get down to the lieutenant's office, they're going to be like, I'm not throwing this guy in the shoe for asking if his shit's there. You know, it came from the low. Why isn't it here? You know, that's a whole thing. Anyway, yeah. So that, yeah, just, and also the discomfort of having to be cuffed, shackled, placed on

a bus freeze your ass off and it's not like they're driving straight to miami you might get on the bus at colman which is an hour north of tampa and you might end up going to georgia yep and then back down to miami or to oklahoma yeah you might go all i know guys there let's how i got here i went here here here here here took me a two months worth of train there spent two weeks here a week here 10 days here and you're like bro it's it's a two hour drive and they're like yeah i know it's horrible I did it I did it twice I hate to say on my way to the pen I was terrified

and I felt like like that trip was fast like I went I left Coleman went to Tallahassee for a week scared the whole week then when I left Tallahassee I went to Oklahoma from Oklahoma

straight to the pen like they flew me I said hopefully they're flying me somewhere else like nope we're landing in Beaumont they're going to take you right to the pen And then they're bouncing people to low. And then I walk in the pen by myself. Like all the people on the bus, like 70 people.

And they let them off the camp, the low, the medium. All right. Last stop the pin. What did you get yourself into? Fuck. Oh, man. Horrible. When you got in the comp, how did you throw some bass in your voice?

Yeah, of course. Yeah. What's up? Yeah, what's what happened? Where's my cell? Hey, I appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor if you like the video, hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so get notified videos just like this.

Please check the description box. I'm going to leave a link to Zach's channel where he goes over his entire story about how he ended up in prison. He doesn't really go over any of the prison stuff, though. It talks about his scams and the, you know, his whole story. Anyway, which is currently being made into a book. Yes. Right?

We should talk about that. Yeah, it's being. finalized now. I think we're probably about three, four months out. And not like mine. I wrote my book in prison. Zach actually has a professional writer who's a published writer. Zach doesn't end up having a movie before I ever have anything done on my shit.

Anyway, I appreciate you guys. Thank you very much. Check it out. See you.