Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Top Lawyer Weighs In on Viral Scandals, Influencers, and Crime Stories

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

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United Healthcare, knowingly used faulty artificial intelligence to deny claims that were legitimate to increase profitability. The CEO knew and didn't care. It's the same guy who was being investigated by the DOJ and the SEC for insider trading to the tune of $15.1 million. Luigi Mangione is seen as a hero right now. It's a very intriguing story. I mean, just on the face of even if we just accept the truth is the fact that a guy who seems like he came from a normal, just American family, to then shooting, you know, the CEO of United Healthcare in broad daylight before 7 a.m. in Midtown Manhattan. It's just a leap, but still.

It's very strange. Now, sometimes, you know, the truth is the most strangest explanation for things. I had another podcast that I did earlier, and the guy that was, you know, know, that his name is Chad Marks, that I did the pocket. I remember he said, oh, I think this guy wanted to get caught. I don't think he wanted to get caught at all. He was saying, like, he thinks Mangione wanted to get caught. He had this little manifesto written the whole thing.

But the truth is, look, it's not easy to get multiple fake IDs, you know. He had fake IDs. He went through a lot to try and hide his identity. He just screwed up. You know, he pulled the face down. He's not a professional hit guy. Right. But he was definitely going out of his way to try and not be tracked down.

He put a lot of thought into it. He didn't put a lot of thought into it to get caught. He would have just taken an Uber hopped out, stood by the door and just waited for the guy. He went through, he made scouting runs. He had alternate fake IDs. He think he went through a lot. I think he probably, in his mind, probably had a plan to crack a bunch of these guys, you know, kind of do a whole unabomber thing. That's my thought because he also left social.

media posts on Unabomber content that's out that's out there. Interesting. I'd heard that that he gave it like a five-star review or he made little comments that he liked what he said. He understood it. So if that's the case, and I think he might have been kind of a, you know, I don't know, a follower, but he may have thought, hey, something similar to this could work.

Because you don't have that made. It's not, look, it's not easy for the average person to just suddenly decide to get a fake ID. That's difficult. Get a fake ID. The risk associated with a gun that doesn't have a serial number. Yeah. The ghost gun.

Travel, yeah. Travel and stay at a place using the fake ID thinking they're not going to check and find out. There's a lot. But personally, I think he was clearly disgruntled about things. I don't know that we have enough information about who he is. I think it's going to start to come out as investigation goes deeper. Please speak with people. you know, like how many witness or how many statements have you read by people who knew him?

Have you seen any interviews or statements? You know, you're not going to see that until the police get into it and stuff starts coming out in public record. We don't know, like, is the character of who he is. It's just strange that he showed up in a McDonald's and somebody identify him by his eyebrows. That's a little, you know, and when I did a video on this, the comments were just like, you know, fire that McDonald's worker, like, sit down and, and fix your ice cream machine. Like what? Yeah, people are.

It's seen as a hero right now. Yeah. Yeah. People were saying like if, if you think that when they were looking for him, if you think that anybody's turning this guy in, you are anybody who's ever had to deal with an insurance company in their life is not going to turn this guy in. You know, still, I'm not going to advocate for anybody just going out shooting people.

Yeah. But yeah, he, it's interesting. The fact that he's alive is what's going to be interesting because he's going to Now, it's funny, this will give him a platform. Yeah. And you were very, very soon or, well, whatever, maybe a year from now or however long it takes to prosecute him, is he's going to get out. The real story will be out there, right? Like, his lawyer, his criminal defense lawyer has come forward saying that we're not playing guilty.

Like, he's innocent to proven guilty. We're not taking any deals. Like, he didn't do. Yeah. So there's more to the story. cases are circumstantial. Like, you know, the circumstantial evidence right now is overwhelming. Yeah.

You know, I really wonder what is defenses. I wonder if that's for optics or if, because, and that's the other thing. If he wanted to get caught, his lawyer could have made a statement. My client wants to, you know, make a statement about, you know, the treatment of elderly in this country and the lack of their care and the denial of their coverage and liquidation of their assets just to pay to be alive is akin to. to what my client did, which is murder. He could have said that.

He didn't say that. He said, my client's pleading not guilty right now, and he didn't do the crime. I think that that theory's blown. I wonder how he knew the guy was going to be there. So he clearly has been, you know, sort of planning this for a while, right? The premeditated nature of this, he walked through it. Look, it's probably not that hard. I mean, it's publicly traded company.

You know, he's probably watching conferences. He's trying to see what this guy's doing, which hotel he is. it's just, it's still wild that it happened at 745, like 6.45 a.m. in Midtown Manhattan, one of the busiest places in planet Earth. You know, gun jams. He's got a silencer on it. It's. Well, yeah, I was going to say, so you're, we're assuming it's the, it's the same ghost gun. True. That he, that he, so I watched a video that showed that a guy had a gun with a silencer that is a single shot gun that has to be. And so he took it and he said, so, you know, he fires. He has to, has to do it again, fires, has to do it again, fires. And he said, and if you look at the gun, boy,

it looks. Now, this was when the video first came out, he's like, I think this is the weapon he used. He said, and basically, it's very unique, but it's easy to manufacture or make. And, But once again, we don't know, you know, what happened to the weapon, if it is the ghost gun. And how did he get a ghost gun? Does he have a 3D printer? Like, did he order the 3D print? Did he order it online to get it? Like, he's obviously, the fake IDs he probably ordered from some Russian website where you send a JPEG in of your face and what you want on it and they give it to you.

You might have to do it a couple times before you actually get a license because a lot of them just steal your money. But so that's not super difficult. but going through those steps of finding them, obtaining one that will actually provide what they're promising, getting it through the mail. Like, these are, this is a, he took a lot of steps to try and cover his tracks. He did. Now, this is controversial, but I've read it, and I've read it in the comments to some of my own videos on this guy.

And that is, why is nobody talking so much about the fact that so many people want to give him a pass because he was a decent looking guy? and how would we have treated him if he was a other race or he looked different? What if his last name was Muhammad? What if his last name was Muhammad? I mean, seriously. And I think the conversation would be very different. I don't think he would be a hero.

If he looked like me and that happened, there would be a lockdown. Tell me I'm wrong. There would be a lockdown in Midtown Manhattan. We're talking about Manhattan. They really looked for this guy, though. You know what I'm saying? You can't say that they didn't pull out. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm not saying they didn't try.

You know what would have been different? You wouldn't have been treated as fairly in social media as he is. Like right now, people are looking at him as a hero. They still, I think the police would have looked absolutely 100% just as much of, for you as they did him. Yeah. But I think you would have been treated differently in social media. True.

And I think the questions, and major media, I hate, I hate major media outlets. I think the conversation they would be having would have been very, very different. It's just a very interesting thing, right? There's this picture of him with the six-pack abs floating around. And he clearly liked McDonald's. I've seen multiple pictures of him with the McDonald's ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a big fan.

Yeah, yeah. And the commentary is like, more reasons to boycott McDonald's. That's right. You know, I'm just. Yeah, there's. It's weird, man. It's weird. But, you know, it's funny because, you know,

you know, the people that are saying all that stuff, like I get it is, it's funny and it's cute and everything. But, you know, this, but this guy had a wife. He had kids. He had, you know, he, he, he may, I'm sure he, and you can justify anything. I've met too many, too many criminals that can justify absolutely. So he justified every decision he's ever made, probably thought he was making the best decisions for the company, probably, you know, whatever, you know, maybe he was a great CEO, maybe he was a great person, I don't know, this guy determined that he, the guy had to go, you know, for whatever reason. You know, everybody just wants to villainize this guy because he's a CEO of a company. Yeah, and I. But who knows? And look, as a lawyer, you always have to try to see both sides.

first before you make a conclusion. And the first thing I did when I looked at this, I'm like, okay, look, first of all, exactly what you said, doesn't justify murder. Let's just be honest. You got shot in the back of the head, street execution style.

Right. Totally wrong thing to do. There's other avenues to accomplish a message about, we got to change health care. Assuming that's the message, okay? Or change greed, corporate American greed. The other side of it is

there's a lawsuit filed last year. Do you know about this by the decedents of some elderly people that were in care homes? Did you hear about this? No. So I was doing some research on this and a family sued United Healthcare November of last year arguing that the company knowingly used artificial intelligence that was faulty. Okay. That's where this comes out of. It comes out of litigation. Separate litigation. that they knowingly used faulty artificial intelligence to deny claims that were legitimate to increase profitability.

That is a big deal. We all know, most people know, that insurance companies try to weasel out of things. That's why we have insurance contracts. That's why they define the term claim the way they define it. That's why they investigate, the way they investigate. But this is very, very overt. I mean, an artificial intelligence tool with 90% inaccuracy,

And it wasn't for like, you know, plastic surgeries or optional surgeries. It's elderly people in care homes who are now getting booted out and liquidating assets to be able to cover and stay alive. Right. That is sinister. That paints a very different picture of United Healthcare, doesn't it not? Yeah, yeah. It's not just I'm a CEO trying to build, you know, above average returns for my shareholders. it's a sinister thing.

And he knew, according to the allegations, the CEO knew and didn't care. This is the same guy, again, unrelated to the murder, is the same guy who was being investigated by the DOJ and the SEC for insider trading to the tune of $15.1 million. Right. Okay, same guy who paid $22 million in ransomware

because they didn't have the adequate security protections when you're in the health space, bro. Right? So it tells us a little, bit about who the guy is, again, negligent or grossly negligent doesn't justify shooting him in the back of the head. Yeah, yeah, you don't get to walk around and just shoot people. But I do think that this case will be really interesting from a, if it gets to a jury trial, I do think it's going to be interesting as to the public sentiment of the, you know, the jurors

that are sitting there. How are they going to view? Now, what gets into evidence and what gets presented to a jury as a science, it's to some degree. You don't know what they're going to to hear, though. That's the problem. Yeah, they're like, Your Honor, that's irrelevant. Well, then it's irrelevant that he has a wife and three kids. Right. But we're not going to let in evidence of character and, or we're not going to let in evidence of, you know, potential motive. So it's, it's, it's strange that it was this guy. I do think it's strange. I don't know if he was a rich, spoiled kid with a little bit of psychopathic tendencies.

I think some research into his history will come out. Maybe he had ex-girlfriends that he beat up or or boyfriend. Like, who knows? Maybe he was killing kittens with hammers, you know, as a kid. Who knows? He may have been a little psycho, the whole. Yeah. Yeah.

Don't mess with the cats, right? Have you seen that Netflix? Yes. Yeah. That guy. You know. That was great. That was great, too.

Boy, those sleuths, man. They tracked that dude. 100%. That was amazing. 100%. So something will come out of it. I think, one, I hate to say good thing, but something that had a repercussion is now people are paying attention to health insurance

company operations and the optics of denying claims and what that looks like, which at least we could turn a negative into a positive, hopefully. Well, the industry of protecting CEOs of major companies is definitely going to shoot, you know, shoot up. Like people are going to be hired. A lot more people are going to be hired, a lot more 24-hour security, a lot more. And they're going to build that to the, you know, to the insured, of course. Have you seen that picture?

There's like a meme with like the top 10 or 15. 15 CEOs of healthcare companies and like the first one has an X through it. Oh. And it's just like. Yeah, I saw one where it was like the, you know, 29 point, you know, their bonuses. Yeah, their bonus is at $29.2 million. You know, next one's like $22.7 million. Next one's like 19 point.

It's going all the way down. This guy wasn't very high on that list. It wasn't super super high on it. But it was still $7 million or $8 million or something like that. It was just like, it's a lot. Did you ever read the book? Poor Colby. Did you ever read the book by John Grisham, The Rainmaker?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I read. Classic. Yeah. That, that, it's just, you know, that's, it's funny because I was thinking about that. And now, I mean, obviously, I read the book in prison. I saw the movie.

I was trying to explain to my wife. I was like, it's, she was like, you said the movie was horrible. I said, if you've never read the book, it's a good movie, you know? I don't know if you saw the movie or not. I've seen the movie. Yeah. Well, I read the book. So you read, you see the movies and you always walk where I'm just disappointed, right?

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But, and it was the same thing with the runaway jury. Like, there's so many of his books that have been turned into movies that if... John Grisham was a lawyer. Yeah, yeah, I know. Right. And he wrote, he wrote a time to kill. Right. On the subway.

Was it on the subway? You might be right. He actually, he actually published a time to kill. It did horrible. Then he published the firm. It became a bestseller. Then he did, like the Pelican Reef. Then they republished a time to kill.

And it became a bestseller. It's like, well, it didn't change. I didn't change one word of it. It's marketing. It is marketing. You know, one of my law professors practiced law with John Grisham way back in the day. He said he was not a good lawyer. Really?

He was a good writer, but he was not a good lawyer. And it's probably why he gravitated towards being obsessed with these stories and writing them. You know, the funny thing is I always say, that whenever we have someone who's going to be like a lawyer, I'm like, you know, I don't really worry about, because sometimes I'll help guys. I'll be like, look, if you tell your story, make sure you do this, you do it. Because the truth is, is that if you're, what I've realized is that if you've ever gone to trial or if you're a lawyer, you have to be a good storyteller. You have to from day one. Is this the fact, even transactional work, if you're doing M&As,

you have to be able to sell the value to the other side. You have to be able to tell the story of why goodwill is what it is, and you have to be able to tell the story of why you need a closing day. It's just in litigation, we see it, you know, and, and, but the thing about, the thing that people don't understand about being a lawyer that's difficult is we are always, it's one of the only professions where you're constantly under scrutiny and getting slapped by people. Think about it. Everything you do is subject to public, especially litigation, is subject to public scrutiny, starting from the complaint you file. People are going to read it. Who wrote this stupid thing? the judge is going to look at it.

Opposing counsel is going to look at it. The parties are going to look about it. There's going to be a blog on it. There's going to be an Instagram post about it. Then you get into discovery and then you get a deposition. So it's it is not for the, you know, for people who are weak for public criticism, especially in today's world, right, with TikToks and viral videos and stuff. Well, I've never gotten an email that started, you know, where I saw Esquire at the end of the name.

And I thought, you know, who's this? My first thought, oh, Christ. Yeah. If somebody knocked at the door and said, hey, I'm. I'm an attorney with, I'd be like, ah, fuck. Yeah. You know, it's like, you might as well say, hi. I'm an internal revenue service agent.

Ah, Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants that. So, yeah. Yeah, you definitely have to have thick skin. You do.

You do. And I don't know, but just a close loop on this Luigi guy. Yeah. Do you, what do you think about the theory that he was in fact in some kind of covert operative? Come on. Have you seen that? No.

You know, but it's like the, the, the, what's, the crook? What was the crook, the kid that shot at that you never hear about, by the way. The Trump guy. The Thomas. Oh, right. Yeah. Never hear about that. Yeah. Yeah.

So here's my theory on that. Yes. Let's hear it. My theory on him is, it's exactly what it looks like. That's the truth, the truth of it. But when you start, when guys started coming in, guys were saying, because I did a podcast with Danny Jones on this. And we actually talked to a former CIA. agent. And so we had a conversation, which I don't think really went anywhere. I mean, nice guy, but his

basically, his thing was like, look, he's like, I think it was what it is. It's exactly. It's a, it's a kid that had become a disenfranchised or whatever you want to call it with Trump and decided he was going to take him out and that's he's going to make a name for himself or whatever. But then you've got the people that are saying, hey, what if this was a CIA op or what if it was, whatever, you know, somebody. And my thought was, in today's society, how hard would it be to do that in a way that you say, okay, we're not going to, you know, kind of like the Kennedy and, you know, I'm just going to say, what's the guy that shot Kennedy, Booth, John Wilkes Booth.

No, John Wilkes Booth is Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln. I'm talking about. Lee Harvey Oswald. Thank you. Lee Harvey Oswald. I don't know why you're looking at me. I don't know.

Lee Harvey Oswald. So Lee Harvey Oswald, when you look at him, they had been tracking him forever. There was plenty of, like, if you looked at someone to be a patsy, he was perfect. He's gone to the Soviet Union, or he went, I was almost said defected, but he went to the Soviet Union. He had been passing out pamphlets, goes to the Soviet Union, marries a Soviet or a Russian girl. He becomes disenfranchised with their system. he comes back here. He's still passing out pamphlets.

He's involved in all of these in politics. He gets a job at the, he's got a bunch of manial jobs, gets a job at the Texas book depository, and he's in the perfect space. And then suddenly at the last minute, they changed the route to go right in front of it, and boom, this guy shoots him multiple times.

He was not a great marksman. The gun was, the site possibly, was defected, was it, was it not? Who knows? But the point is, is if you look at it, like, he's the perfect Patsy. And I thought, how do you find the perfect Patsy now? It's 10 times easier. All you have to do, if you have access to the NSA, you say, here's what we want. Trump is going to be at these 14 locations throughout the country over the next three months. I need to know individuals, you know, you give them the makeup, right? Like a white, male that can shoot that is between the ages of 18 and 30 or 40 or whatever that have been posting

social media, you know, horrible, whatever, violent things about Trump on social media that is clearly, you know, liberal. They just give them the basic makeup, right? The psychological makeup of what they think a shooter would be. And I need to find who fits that profile. In these 14 different cities, within a 45-minute drive of these 14 cities. Yeah. They're going to come up with 190 of them.

Yeah. I got 25 guys here, two guys here, six guys here, 14 here, 13 here, 11 here. They're going to go, okay, now what we're going to do is we're going to go and we're going to look at all those guys, which one of them currently own weapons, which can shoot, which can this, which don't have family, which, you know, who are the guys? And all you got to do is you go to the guy and you say, look, we've read your social. You pull him, he's walking to work one day. you pull them into a, into a van with a bunch of guys,

and you say, listen, here's what we're doing. This is what we, here's what you've said. Here's your chance. We can't do it. We need plausible deniability. You are perfect. Once you're finished with this, we're going to get you out of the, we're going to give you money and get you out of the country.

It'll look perfect for you. You'll be doing your country of service. We promise they will never find you, knowing we're going to have them shot. Yeah. As soon as he gets on, as soon as he takes the shot and takes this guy out and getting, shooting someone. with like a, what do you shoot him with an M4 or, no, it was it a AR-15 or something like that? I thought it was an AR.

Okay. Like, honestly, if you talk to most of these guys out there, they're like, it's amazing he didn't tear him apart. Like, he wasn't that far away. He had a scope. He really should have just, and he almost did, let's face it. If Trump hadn't turned at the last minute, that one, that was it. That one bullet was done.

It's actually mind-boggling. What a story. I mean, oh, my God. But right, like, within. That's the perfect setup. Yeah. That guy would have been perfect. It is.

It would have been perfect. And then they have total deniability. So if you were going to do it, he would have been perfect. I don't think that's what it was. But I'm saying in today's society, they probably had 120 guys they could have gone to. 60% of them could have pulled it off. This kid was a shooter. He tried out for the, he shot many, many times.

He tried out for his high school shooting team, right? It didn't get, didn't make it. But it's obvious that he's a shooter. He's made a bunch of, has a bunch of social commentary on Trump, things he's disliked. But now we don't hear about anything. He's gone. Yeah. Never hear about it.

We don't hear much about it. I don't know what, you know. Mainstream media certainly doesn't, isn't pushing the agenda. They want to forget about it. Yeah. Immediately. You know, the opposite story is also being told that, oh, this was a setup to get him elected. And I think that's much more implausible to happen.

He was already getting elected. Yeah, yeah. Well, not only that, but imagine putting that margin of error on your, yeah, shoot me in my earlobe. Oh, that, oh, you mean, I'm sorry, I didn't understand. I thought you meant. No, no, no, people are saying. At him. Yeah, shoot at me.

You're going to miss. You're going to, yeah. You're excellent marksman. We need you to take off just this little piece. Yeah, just a little piece of my ear and I'm going to be the American hero. No, but people have said this. People are idiots. No, I know.

People are idiots. If you, if I was, if I was Trump and you can. came to me as my advisor and said, here's what we're going to do. I'd be like, okay. You're off the team. You're off the team. Nobody's shooting at me. But here's what we can say. The security detail. Have you seen them get grilled in front of the breakdown? The breakdown is horrific. Yeah. Yeah. There have been, have you seen some of our representatives grill, like the leaders of the, you know, the security detail and everything about, basically, you know,

some of these guys are a little more extreme, but I forgot which representative it was. Are you talking about the woman that was a head of the secret service? No, it was a guy who was responding to this senator or congressman, my God. But it was almost like you wanted this to happen. That was the narrative he was speaking. And the guy was just like, they were yelling at each other. It got to a point where they were yelling at each other. But that one that you're talking about was also, I mean, look, this was a big failure.

It really made our country look bad. I mean, look bad. I've seen two presidents, sitting presidents speak before at ASU campus, because I just happened to be on campus and they were there. So when I graduated in 2009 from Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law, Barack Obama actually spoke it on campus for all. They had, you know, they have the main ASU graduation and he spoke. You should have seen the detail. It was crazy. The snipers, you know, the helicopter.

Bill Clinton spoke for the Obama campaign, also on campus, in a main, much bigger lawn, okay, which was not at a graduation. It was just open, basically. The security is great. You felt it. You felt like, keep your hands down. Don't even scratch your ear. You're going to get shot if you do anything. You felt that. So I'm just thinking, how does this get missed? It's just, it's a question has been bothering me for a long time. How does something like this really get missed? Especially that they, they, people were calling in. They're reporting them. People were watching it. There's video of it now of like we see, we see this guy.

And they're telling the locals and the secret service, this is what's going on. And they're like, oh, we went over there. We couldn't find anybody. What do you mean you couldn't find anybody? But there's a guy in the thing. Other people, we think he went up here. Like, why is Trump taking the podium? You know people are telling there's a guy on the roof with a gun.

He should have been, that immediately should have been pulled out. Oh, the breakdown in communication. I don't. Hmm. So that, I think. So that, I think, is maybe less conspiracy theory, the fact that was communication not deliberately handled in the way it should have been? Or was it pure negligence?

It's just, yeah. It's just, you know, I mean, you know, I'm certainly not going to sit here and say that the, that law enforcement or the justice system is ineffective. Yeah. You know. So, but yeah, I mean, I can see a break now. I can see them being ineffective, you know, it just seems so over. if you listen to all the track, like I watch a video on it, which means I'm an expert.

That's right. Yeah, that's right. You watch a couple TikToks. I watched a 15-minute video and everything. But there were so many different, so many different people, well, not people, but instances where there were multiple people being told, this is what's going on. And the officers are wandering around and watching and they're climbing up and falling down ladders and this and then.

And yet nobody at any point said, I'm thinking maybe we're. we shouldn't let this dude step on the podium. I feel like a random fire department in a small town would have handled that situation better. I really feel like first responders would have handled something like that better. Yeah, it would have taken all of all. You could have delayed Trump getting on there

all of five minutes and thick, and let's get to the bottom of this. Yeah. Why isn't anybody on the roof? Yeah, I still boggles my mind, securing the premises. It's a clear, had this never happened, it still would have been like,

why didn't we have anybody on that roof, guys. Well, why didn't we secure that? You heard what she said, what the head of the Secret Service said. What did she say? She said, it was determined that it was, the pitch was too steep and it was be unsafe. Yet, where the snipers were was almost, it was like a 30 percent. The grade was probably 15 percent on that roof where the shooter was.

But the grade was about 25 percent. It's a bigger gradient. Yeah, exactly, where the snipers were. So, so you're, what do you just, are you, are you ineffective? Are you, are you, are you an idiot or are you just lying to Congress? I think you're, I honestly think you're probably just an idiot, to be honest. Like, you should not have had that job. Yeah.

That, I think everybody could agree with. Right. That everyone could agree with. And the fact that they don't, that they didn't, that they didn't have, they didn't have the budget. They kept, you know, they don't have the, there's like, oh, well, we only had so much. We could only do so much. We could only, you know, and the connect, the, the, the. they didn't adequately communicate with the local law enforcement.

That's right. You could have had the local, like, if you're saying, no, no, we don't want the locals to do this. We'll do this. Okay, but you don't have manpower to do it. The locals are happy to do it. They would love to have done it. Right. I'm going to protect.

I'm going to be on this. There's a presidential campaign. They didn't even ask them to. Right. Right. They told them they didn't want them. They were saying, we're going to do that. No, no, we don't want you there.

You don't want our sniper guys there? Why? It's crazy. It's crazy to me. What do you think would have happened had he hit? Like, what do you think the repercussions would have been? Oh, my God. I think that we would be looking at civil unrest.

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We saw the march into the Capitol once. Right. This would be part two. By the way, the guy with the horns is from, like, Phoenix or something. He was locked up with Perry Rossini. My buddy, Rossini, was in the unit with him. Get out of here. Did he wear the horns and paint his face?

So when he got there, he, he, he, he got there. He said, this idiot. He said, you know, my buddy, Pete is just like, he's like, this guy with the horns. He said, when he got there, now my buddy Pete was in a unit in Coleman. Okay. Prison. I was in the low security prison. There's three buildings.

Three buildings, 12 units. Well, one of the units is the military unit. So if you have military experience or if you'd been the military, that's the unit they typically send you to. So you get special. It's not really you get special privileges. it's quieter, it's cleaner. And there's fewer guys.

They're all two-man cells instead of three-man cells. So you get a little bit better existence, right? Like I would have loved to have been in that unit. But he said when, and so most of them are older guys that have been in the military. They're more disciplined. It's much, much more quiet. So when this guy gets there, he said, these guys, you can't believe he's, they treated him like he was a celebrity.

Like they loved him. Get out of here. Pete said he had like a. $150,000 in a GoFundMe account for his legal fee. Never asked, somebody set it up. It was in there. He notified him, hey, we're raising money for you right now. Writing him letters.

He's like, what's this? That's Luigi. That's what's going to happen with that guy. Oh, yeah. He'll have, well, you know, the Unabomber literally had a fan base up until the day he died. It was a massive fan base. He's writing letters. They have a website.

They post his stuff on it. He had social media that these guys ran for him, everything. Menendez brothers had chicks writing them letters and stuff, too. like, so handsome, we love you, you're innocent, and I'm like, this guy's murder. You're not innocent. He said you're not innocent. The question is just motive.

You killed your parents. There's no question about that, which, by the way, I do think they're going to get out in 2025. I think they will. Did you watch? I watched both. I watched the Monsters, which was a dramatization, and then I watched the, you know, the documentary,

which I thought could have been done better, but was definitely better than a show called Monsters. Yeah. which directly portrayed them as that. And I'll say this. This is why our justice system in America can really, really, really, really go back to the nuts and bolts of what is fair.

When you have, we have a polar system, right? We have prosecutors that are hell-bent on getting a charge. We have defense lawyers are hell-bent and getting a dismissals. The idea is both verisphishly, what's the word? viciously.

Vicious? No, there's another word that you have to be voraciously. I don't know. They're both basically fighting tooth and nail. That's how we're going to say that. It's an adversarial system. It's an adversarial system with rules of engagement, with ethics to the T, where everyone

has access to the same information. That's the theoretical world in which cases are fought, criminal cases. And the burden is beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a high burden. The defense just has to show one thing, something doesn't make sense. One juror is going to scratch their head. And that happened, right? But it happened the first time. It didn't happen the second time.

Oh, because the judge completely stacked the deck in the government favor. He gutted the evidence. Let's be honest. And so, you know, I wonder what would have happened. Would it have been an absolute, you know, dismissal? Would it have been a lesser charge? Would it have been manslaughter, first degree? What we do know is that there was evidence not considered.

Now, all in all, they've done, how long have they been in prison for now? 35 years or something like that. Yeah, they weren't even in their 20s, right? One guy was 18. Yeah, one guy is 19 and 21. And when it happened, they were like 18 and 20 or something. Yeah, now, no, let's let's say that the abuse that they suffered was plausible. We don't even have to believe all of the abuse stories, even some of it.

And there was evidence of that. Yeah. Have they done their time? Yeah. They've done. Are they dangerous criminals? There's people that are willing to testify that say they are completely rehabilitated. They're running these programs in the prison system to help people.

They're changed. Right. Let them be part of society. I don't know if I could disagree with that. Yeah. I, you know, what's what's also interesting is, did you, if you watched the documentary, you saw it, Did you see the part where the district attorney said about his father? He said, she said, we couldn't find.

She's like, he was clearly a deplorable human being. She said, she goes, he, we couldn't find one person to say, say he was a decent person. Nobody he worked with, nobody he socialized with, nobody at the country club. Nobody would get on the stand and say he was a good guy. Yeah. His family members wouldn't say it. That's right. I mean, so, you know, she said when, when humanity lost him, you know, like, yeah, they didn't

lose a patriot, you know what I'm saying? They didn't lose this amazing individual, you know, and the mother, I get the mother being kind of, is the word, caught a little bit. Yeah, well, I was going to say duplicit in, and if there was a, there certainly was probably mental abuse, whether there was the physical abuse that they had said had happened in this abuse. I don't know. the maid or whatever she was, the woman that had said that Eric had come downstairs and told her what her father had done and the mother swept it on the rug.

If that's true, look, even if it's not true, it's been 35 years. Yeah. It's a long time. Yeah. It's enough already. I think that's more than a fair sentence. I think the prosecution or excuse me, the DA's office. is going to put on their show saying,

we've looked at this and maybe it, maybe it is your honor time for them to come out. They were very tight-lipped about it when their public statements recently that came out. But there's going to be hearing soon. I think it's coming up in a few days. And I personally, I think the judge might say, you know what?

Have a happy new year, you know, outside with some freedom now. Yeah, it wouldn't be. Look, it's 35 years, bro. There's plenty of people that have done far worse Yeah. That have done a lot less time. Like Jay-Z. Right.

I'm kidding. Yeah. Yeah, I would be curious on your thoughts on some of that stuff. Look, let me say this. Tony Busby. I'm not sure you're saying. I love his music. I mean, look, you know, Tony Busby is being painted as this basically ambulance chasing, you know, just publicity stunt.

Right. Okay. When we remove the fact that this is a celebrity thing and we look at the fact of something happened and somebody has filed suit and is willing to testify, literally put their life upside down and back on the stand. Now, it's anonymous, okay? That doesn't mean that discovery is not going to come out that tends to show who this person is and there's not things that are going to be talked about in a courtroom that are under seal because that's probably what's going to happen. my point is somebody's making some claims and they have some factual accuracies to them like who was with jZ and p ditty the night of these awards

and took this 13 year old who at the time who was 13 right who's who's now alleging that this person is jZ is describing what happened in that room and how they were picked up by a driver after the award ceremony saying apparently you know the story yeah right and and she something At some point, they're going to start. What is the story? Can you explain the story? Because I'm sure there's people who...

Yeah, I mean, basically what's happened is, you know, this was Celebrity A and Celebrity B, where the unnamed people. There was a demand letter that Tony Busby sent. And basically, the guy got threatened. Tony Busby. Later comes out that it's Jay-Z. So, you know, the complaint that was already in existence against the Doe celebrity was amended to say it's Jay-Z.

Right. And the reason they did. did it that way for people who don't understand is they did try to get a settlement without having to go the distance and it was already an active lawsuit but it just wasn't being pursued against him that's not uncommon i mean this is getting painted as saying well this is weird and it's not a common okay it's if you think you believe in your client and your client was injured whether it was through an assault or whatever it's not an uncommon strategy okay point blank whether it's true or not different story so now now we're talking about jZ so all lies on him

the again at the time 13 year old has is basically alleging that she wanted to get into this awards ceremony whatever it was it uh it was a Grammy whatever it was awards in right yeah and she approached you know she approached a vehicle and it was a driver it was jZ's driver right and look I'm trying to get in and look we can't get you in but uh jZ and I don't know if PD's it his name was mentioned in time, but you fit the bill of people that we may want to talk to afterwards and come to this get together, come to this party. And she does. I don't know if she made it into the award ceremony. But she, then, the story is told. I was taken in this limo, and we went to this house with the curved driveway in the gates, and we go in, and I can see all

these celebrities, and I get introduced to the guys, right? And here's Jay-Z. And there was a woman there and I was given a drink, and the drink had this in it and had this in it and this. And the third ingredient, had this bitter taste, and now I'm getting woozy, and now I'm passing out,

and I'm taken into a bedroom, and absolutely Jay-Z and P. Diddy took turns doing things to me, and there was a woman there who was affiliated with these people. And if you look at who the possible women were at that time,

P. Diddy was dating J-Lo, or married or whatever, and Beyonce was, the wing girl, if you will, for Jay-Z. So it's one of the two of those, probably. Probably it could be rando, but likely not. So everything's described in detail, okay? Now, the problem is we are looking at this.

We don't have the full story. Jay-Z has publicly addressed this calling Tony Busby a deplorable human being, right? Okay. So his lawyer completely denies it. He's like, I'm not paying one penny. This just didn't happen. the number of times where people have said that

who have actually done things. Yeah, well, and that what did he said? He denied with Cassie. With Cassie. And settled the day, the next day. The next day and the video surfaced. Remember that? They must have seen, well, he settled.

Most like he comes out absolutely not. Bullshit, I'm not paying nothing at all. Next day he settles. Probably because they said, oh, that's your take. Yeah, okay, here's the video. And he went, lawsuit. And then it got leaked months later. CNN put it out. So it didn't come out right away. That's right. They probably said,

this is what we got. And he said, oh, okay, what are we looking at here? How much? And usually when that happens to you, like, when you bring a case, whether it's for assault or whatever it's for, there's going to be talk leading up to the lawsuit, right? So they probably said there was probably demand letters written. There was phone calls. Look, we're going to bring these claims. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, bring it on. Then it was filed and the next day it was settled. Yeah. And is that a good look? No, no, it's not a good look. It's, it's, it's definitely not the avenue Jay-Z's taken. But here's the thing I thought about this, is that initially the lawsuit was filed against

Diddy and these two other, like John and Jane Doe, that were there. Like you said, they weren't named. So when they contacted Jay-Z, if Diddy doesn't settle that lawsuit, eventually, even if Jay-Z he settles it during discovery with Jay-Z, his name's going to come out. 100%. Probably with his lawyer, probably if he said, look, if I give these guys half a million dollars to keep me out of it, you know. Still make headlines.

Am I still going to end up in the, you know, he probably said, look, yeah, you could give him half a million a million. You can give him $10 million. Bottom line is at some point, if Diddy doesn't settle this lawsuit, your name is going to come out. Then at that point, he said, okay, then here's what we'll do. We'll say it's absolutely untrue and we'll fight it tooth and nail. Because if I'm going to come out anyway, they only would,

who's in to pay the hush money or to pay to keep my name out of it. It's to keep your name out of it. So what's interesting to is from an evidentiary standpoint. So this is not criminal. This is a civil case. Right. So it's a preponderance, 51% likelihood that it happened. Right.

Okay? That's a low bar. It's scary. Yeah. And credibility comes into play. Right. Who was Jay Z moving with? You know, it's interesting.

You see all these look back videos and clips from like the rappers hanging out and like random things. They're together all the time. They're together all the time. And there's these weird sort of gestures and things. At the time, we don't have any reason to question it. Today, it's almost like it's that missing piece of the puzzle and you put it in, and the whole picture comes together.

But the question I keep asking is, what evidence do they have that they can present that ties directly to him? Yeah. Like, what do you have? Are you going to just tell the story that Jay Z's P. Dedy's buddy? Like, is that what the case is going to get, you won't never make it to a jury. Right. You got, as a plaintiff who's bringing the claims, you got to have evidence to survive what we call, what we call summary judgment.

That, Your Honor, plaintiffs don't have anything. Dismiss this case. Yeah, we can't, we can't even, they, your honor, they can't even prove that this girl was ever within 10 miles of this, of this hotel or of either one of these individuals. Like that's, she's got to have something. Where were her parents? Right. Now, she says afterwards when she got out, she called her parents or are her parents going to come in and say, I remember the day. I picked her up at this hotel.

Correct. Like somebody going to say. Is there, is there, and I forgot what year. Is there phone records? Yeah. I was going to say, I forgot what year it happened, but forensic possibilities were, are there texts, are their calls? Are there remnants of anything?

Did she keep anything from the home? Who knows what the, what's the lawyer's name again? Busby. What is Busby holding back? Because typically you say a lot of stuff, you get them interested, you get everybody interested, and then you wait for them to come forward. and say, we don't even, I've never been near this woman. They go, okay, we got four photos.

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You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in store and online, though some may vary. Shit. Yeah. Which has got to be what happened with that video. Can I tell you a good one? Okay. Not to segue?

You know, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie had a nasty divorce. Yes. Guess what's happening? So two years ago, he sued her. He sued her over their $150 million villa in Paris. Okay. He sued her because she sold $65 million for half or whatever, $67 million of it to some billionaire. Russian billionaire. And he said, we had an agreement that I had to write a refusal on that.

You can't just sell it to Schmo. So he sued her in 2022. Guess what's now coming out? The reasons why she didn't sell it to him. And the reason, according to now what Angelina Jolie's, she's on the hot seat, right? She has to come up with the reason why if this agreement existed, she didn't sell it to Brad. And what's coming out now, just now, is that she didn't sell it to him because she actually offered it to Brad, but Brad stuck her with an NDA, a draconian one that said, you're not going to talk about my abuse

and the time I assaulted you and assaulted the kids, including choking them on a plane. You're not going to talk about anything. If you do that, then I'll buy it. That's extortion. Right.

In a way. Okay. It's an interesting transaction to say the least. Sign this NDA. And she said, no. And I'm not going to, so I'm not going to sell to you.

You're basically refusing it. You're asking me to, We didn't agree, never agreed to this. No, so I'm selling it to them. That is now coming out. And the reason I bring this up is that's how discovery works. When you make a claim to defend it, what's going to come? You don't know the reasons.

Now, Brad Pitt says, by the way, there was, she absolutely alleged there was an altercation on the plane where she was choked, she was hit, she was thrown around. One of the kids was choked. He was irate. He was screaming. He was drinking. This was investigated by the FBI. according to Brad Pitt, and they said there was nothing.

I don't know what that means. I haven't read the report. I don't know if it means, yeah, something was broken against the glass in the plane, but we didn't find injuries. I don't know what that means. She's like, it absolutely happened, but now he has to defend against that allegation. That's how it works.

The analog could happen in Jayzie's case. Right. To defend, he's going to have to say where he was or what he was doing. I have an alibi. This is who I was with. is he going to say I never did these parties with P Diddy? No, because there's too many photos. There's too many pictures.

They're always together. Is the chauffeur going to come forward and say, yep, I did take the girl. I did put her here. I do remember her going in. The car. Like, you know, what, I mean, everything is going to come out. What brand of cigarettes were being smoked at the time is going to come out? Where are the phone records?

Are there any emails that were sent after this with an attorney to say, look, this chick took off. We're a little bit concerned. Photographs. What's interesting about the government's case against Diddy, remember the first thing they seized. It was forensics. It was devices.

They had dozens and dozens of phones and hard drives, computers, laptops. What do you think was on there? We don't know. The public doesn't know the full picture yet. Yeah, I was going to say it's like, so there's a book that came out, which is the Kim Porter's memoir. I don't know if you know I've done a bunch of stuff on that. Yep.

Now, here's the interesting thing about this is that the government hasn't stated that they have any videos. Like, we got all this stuff. We got videos, but they've never really stated what's on these videos. Yeah. But that book, when that book came out, prior to the book coming out, the guy that I think wrote the book, who said he got it from the hard drive from somebody that was close friends with Kim Porter, which is it's, it's, uh, um, Camor Simmons. Uh, now I don't think that's true.

But the point is, is that prior to that, he contacted this guy Chris Todd and told Chris Todd, he had hard drives that had these, uh, these tapes on it. Chris Todd then went and shopped those tapes to try and sell them. And just after that, so then Diddy ends up, well, this is, Diddy had gotten raided. He starts shopping these tapes. Diddy gets arrested. And it comes out that these tapes are out there floating around and there is someone out there willing to sell them to the highest bidder. Ultimately what happens is those flash drives, the guy that I think wrote the book and started this whole bullshit thing.

He says he destroyed them. He destroyed them. That's what he ends up telling the grand jury. I destroyed him. That's after he came on my program and said he had watched them. And then I told him, look, you should hand those over. You're in possession of, you know, CP. And you could go to jail for that.

And he then destroys, in the next day, he said, oh, well, first he said, the FBI came and took him. That's a lie. And then, because the FBI is not even involved in this case. Then he ends up telling the grand jury, I destroyed him. I knew what I found out what they were and I realized it. I threw them away. Okay. The point is, is that while that's happening, everybody starts coming out saying that there are these tapes out there that show Diddy and multiple celebrities engaging in essays with these young, you know, with Bieber, Usher, and Will Smith's jaded Smith.

Yeah. So, but the point is, is that that has now seeped into the social media kind of fabric. And it's become lore that it's out there and that this is true. The truth is, I think, it was all made up. It was made it by a guy who was trying to sell a book, which he did sell, made a small fortune selling it until Amazon took it down. And it's all BS based on the fact that the government did take these devices. They do have video. But we don't know what's on the video.

We don't know what's on the video. This is my point is discovery is critical. And this is a criminal case. So the public has a right to know. Now, if there's underage stuff on it, obviously there's some concerns with what's on there from the prosecutor's standpoint. If, but has the government come forward and said that? And they haven't said that. So this is my question.

Like, what is really on those tapes? DOJ, if you're watching, we want to know, right? Like, they're watching your show, by the way. They're keeping track of you. I'm sure. That's what this guy said. We want to know. Let's get, send us the index of what's on those files.

Listen, Courtney Burgess told me, not that I think you can believe. anything he says, but he says that when he went to the grand jury, they played the video of he and I's conversation. Oh, no kidding. Is this correct? Is this correct? Yeah. Because I backed him right into a corner.

Of course you did. You were paid by the DOJ, right? No, I see. That's the next thing. Cox is a plant. I saw the M3 down the street, that BMW, yeah. But you see what I'm saying? Like it's a, oh, no, so I do believe that they're watching.

I do believe that, you know, literally, it's funny. you literally can you can see like my video came out the following day they issued the subpoena oh interesting i didn't time i didn't yeah yeah four days later they serve him the subpoena two three days later he's in front of the grand jury they play my tape of him talking about watching the videos being in possession and when he's there they say where are they because i got him to say he still had him he said no no i got rid of him immediately like i i i destroyed them throw away, you know, because the truth is he can't provide them because they never existed to begin with.

I'm not saying that there's not, that they are not currently in possession of video. Yeah. But I think by allowing this guy to be out there and do all these media programs and knowing he's lying because his story has changed so many times, and I don't mean slightly, it's overly. It's overt lies that's just one completely fabricated story after another after another. From when he obtained them, to how many, to who gave them to him to what it was on them, to him watching him, to him, not watching him, everything.

So I'm thinking, it's undermining the government's case. Yeah. Because all Ditty's lawyer has to do is say, bring him on and say, did you have the tapes? Where are the tapes? What did you tell the grand jury? Where are the tapes? So you don't have the tapes. Well, I think that there were no tapes.

I think you're the person that got everybody believing there were tapes. And I think you didn't throw them away. I don't think they ever existed. And I think this whole thing. And the government allowed this to happen, knowing you were a liar, knowing you lied, they allowed you to continue and poison the jury pool. This isn't one, this isn't Hillsborough County where you can, you were in the local paper and you could pick up and move it to Pascoe County and nobody's heard of it before.

This is hundreds of millions of views worldwide. Everybody knows this case. Yeah. So the court has a duty to provide a fear trial. Yep. And the government has a duty, and you haven't silenced this guy yet. And that's my take. I could be wrong.

I'm not a lawyer. No, it's, this is the problem, if you will, with the criminal justice system, is particularly with celebrity. So the question is, do celebrities ever get a fair shake? Some could say it goes the opposite direction. And sometimes I think it does. And sometimes I think it works against you. I'm not saying that ditty's innocent. Yeah.

I'm saying it has to be a level playing field for both parties. For sure. That's the job of the court system and ethical lawyers to help enable that level playing field. But it doesn't always happen. Let's go back to the beginning. Where were you born? I was born and raised in Connecticut. Okay.

Small town, Bethel, Connecticut. 800 kids in my high school. My parents are immigrants from India, right? It's shirt off the back type of people. My dad was a lithography engineer, right? So he made the machines or serviced the machines that made microchips and literally came here, had a few relatives, was married to my mom, came here and built himself up, right? I've had five kids.

Came here alone? Came here alone, married with my mom. Oh, came here with your mom. Yep. Well, you know, sometimes people will come, get established and then send forward. No, this was, you know, and you'll see this a lot with, you know, the 16. and 70s, immigrants that come from, you know, India, Pakistan, or a lot of Asian countries, is they come married, but they're super young. Like, they have nothing. There are no one and land

of opportunity, right? And the exchange rate's good, and they want to send money back home. So they may not even be coming with the intent to stay. But my dad, you know, extremely hardworking guy, even to this day, you know, retired, he's got to be mowing lawns or sweeping or doing something. So he came for a better life for his family and to send money back home. had five kids. I'm the second oldest of five. And we grew up traditional Indian Muslim upbringing in an extremely white elitist town. And I distinctly have memories of what it was like to be bullied as a kid. I mean, for years, I'm talking six or seven years from kindergarten through sixth seventh grade. And it wasn't until my older brother was like six feet tall in

seventh grade that they were like, we can't dick with this guy because his older brother will beat your ass down kind of thing. And my brother is a character. And we laugh about it today. But that makes you who you are. You know, when you live as an outsider and you're forced to do that, it's not like I can say,

Dad, I'm moving to L.A. Right. It turns you into someone. Right. And that part lives with you. Even today, it's with me. But I then fought to fit in. I'm like, you know, maybe I want to be more white.

Right. Sometimes people go the other way. People go the other way. That becomes their identity. Like, I'm going to make sure I now stand out. I think that's where I am. I was that too. Yeah.

But I'm talking about in kindergarten, race was a thing. Like, people knew it because you were in the upper echelons in the school. Like, my dad lived next to a guy who had a Ph.D., who was also an Indian immigrant. And to the left, an Italian immigrant who had a huge vineyard. Like, we were nestled in with a lot of people and we just stuck out, right? I mean, how many brown people were in my school to begin with, period, in Bethel, Connecticut. But that's an important start to who I was because it shaped my view of the world around me. And it taught me that, you know, race, if you let people get to you, you're going to lose, no matter what you're trying

to achieve in life. You have to be your own person. You have to be fearless, and you have to just have a conquer mentality. And I started developing that really, really young. I also had the characteristic of, like, I wanted people to like me, right? And so, you know, you're every, like every normal teenager, you know, you start getting interested in girls. You're like, well, these, all these guys, they don't even look in my direction. But then as you get older, you start growing into who you are and becoming more comfortable.

And I think, so moving from Connecticut, I moved to Arizona, I was 15 or 16. I got my driver's license in Gilbert, Arizona. This is funny. Gilbert, Arizona is known as sort of like Redneckville. that to me was diversity compared to Bethel, Connecticut, if you want a good laugh. Literally, Gilbert, Connecticut was Cornfields when we moved there in 1996. It's diverse now. So there was a bunch of, you know, farmer Caucasian people, and you had a bunch of Mexicans.

And I'm like, dude, I can fit in, you know, people look at me. It could be anything. We don't know what he is. But that to me was a reset button. So, you know, being a teenager and all, and I had an opportunity to leave behind all the weirdness and kind of restart who I am. And so I played guitar. I've played guitar for 25 years now. I started playing in a punk band. Then people could see I could draw. They're like, oh, this, who's this guy? He's kind of weird. He doesn't, he doesn't look like and act like everybody else.

So he started kind of seeing me for who I am inside, and it gave me a chance to reset. And so that also set a trajectory for me and created this box in my mind that C, just be you. Right. Don't worry about everybody else. Just do you. And that, I think, eventually, shaped really what I ended up doing in my professional life. You know, so I ended up staying in, in Arizona, you know, just because things were very, very new. And I saw it as an opportunity to develop things there, right? So, um, I played in bands. And I remember a distinct time where my dad's like, I turned 18 and he said, if you don't stop playing in clubs, you're never going to be a decent human being. Like, again, because I was raised a certain way. Right. Right. And I'm like,

yeah, he's kind of not wrong about that. Um, so at any rate, I, I always did well academically. It wasn't like a big deal to me. You know, school was like, yeah, whatever, went to undergrad, studied business. I loved entrepreneurship and, um, loved the internet, right? Love this idea of doing business online. And then ultimately fell into law school. I, I have no lawyers in my family. Nobody said you should be a lawyer. I literally was going to take, you know, take the, um, you know, test to go into MBA. programs, Thunderbird, which is one of the top international MBA schools in Phoenix,

or I was going to go to law school. And this is when, 2002? Yeah, this is 2003. Okay. I finished my undergrad in 2003. And of course, some significant things happened, right? And so just from the timeline of things, after September 11th is when I knew

I had to do something related to justice for a variety of reasons. Okay. Okay? The first reason was you may remember the headlines that this Sikh guy who worked at a 7-Eleven got shot by some racist dude in Mesa, Arizona, just because he had a turban and he had a beard like mine. Yeah, yeah. And they're like, well, you must be one of them and killed the dude. Okay?

Like, wow, that's profound. And that's happening in America. At the same time, you have Congress passing the Patriot Act. and I did research on surveillance and government surveillance and the big, you know, big brother type stuff in law school. So now you're talking about that was, you know, late 2008. But I was always fascinated with the push and pull of how easy the governments can take away your rights and what are the rights of people.

So this is happening now at an intersection with 9-11 as well. And then you have talks of Guantanamo Bay. I'm like, you know what? Somebody really needs to kind of understand what's going on in the community, outside the community. And that too, and business was always, you know, making money and business was always a fascination. It just so happened to be a weird intersection where e-commerce started becoming a thing and internet started becoming a thing. I studied business undergrad anyway. So I graduated in 2003. So what were you concerned with when the Patriot Act, do you realize that they just, they just

it was abusive. This, this push and pull between rights suddenly just shifted where now we can watch you for any reason at all and we can look at all your stuff. Like it just immediately. 100% abusive, right? So, you know, there's always this look back after laws are passed where, you know, we see this today, right, where something happens. There's a laws passed, people lobby for it. And then years later, you have a look back and now we really know what the Trojan horse was behind that.

Now we really know what was going on. I viewed while Patriot Act was being, you know, while it was being presented, you know, by the Senate and in Congress and whether discussions are happening, I'm like, this doesn't sound right. This doesn't sound like something for the protection of the American people. Right. There's no evidence that it was protecting the American people. It sounds like Big Brother, you know, eyes in the sky and do what we want.

And it turns out that's what it was. It sounds like a police state. And people were saying it even back then. This sounds like China. You're going to turn America into communist country where. But again, you say national security. You get a way with the law. You get a green light.

You can shut down TikTok when you say national security, right? So that was happening. I finished business school. I was working in medical industry, and I knew I wanted to go to graduate school at some point, and I just, it was a crapshoot. I took the LSAT. I studied for like a month or two out of a book I bought online. I got in to ASU Sunder Day O'Connor College of Law, which, by the way, is a top 25 program now in the country.

I wouldn't get in today. And internet's happening. Facebook's happening. And I'm like, you know, somebody needs to kind of understand the goods and bads of how the internet works and the legalities of it, you know, people. or Amazon's now becoming a thing. So I was just fascinated. So it was a new industry.

It was a new industry. It was a chance to set some footprints in the snow. So I looked at this opportunity and I said, well, okay, I'll take my understanding of business and I'll just give it a shot. So when I graduated law school, it was the armpit of the legal market because that was the 2008-2009 credit crash, right? Banks were closing. Washington Mutual, I'll never forget this.

In Tempe, Arizona, there were people who wanted to withdraw $5,000. They could not. They had to wait 10 days to withdraw, five grand, because they didn't have the money. Right. And so, you know banking, right? And this is what's happening. I'm graduating law school, not a good market. And I said, I'll do the smartest thing, which is I'm going to start my own law firm,

which people, everyone told me, 10 out of 10 people said, race, go work somewhere. Go do bankruptcy work. I didn't want to do bankruptcy. I didn't want to do creditors' rights. That stuff's not going to keep me up and engaged. it's going to give me some bills to pay, you know, like I can pay my bills with that. But that's, so I'm the type of person that if I'm not passionate, I just can't do it with the straight face. And so, you know, eventually I just opened my own firm when I got licensed, December 2010.

And from day- No clients, nothing. No clients, nothing. I'd done some internships. I had, you know, worked in some clinics that, you know, I'm actually an adjunct at ASU law where we have a clinic. We teach law students how to counsel early stage companies and entrepreneurs and draft documents, right? Not read case law, but actually draft. So from that program where I was a student, I learned how to do like two or three things. So those two or three things, that skill set that I had,

that's what I took and then essentially provided services for early stage companies. And that grew from there. So my first year, I made the lowest job offer that I had. And that was my proof of concept. I said, look, if I can at least make close to my the lowest job offer, there may be something here to continue. But I was prepared to go take a job if I had to, right? And I had offers. It's not like those offers weren't there. But I just kept going keeping it. Oh, I have, you have this technology internet related thing. Call Raiz. Call Raiz. Call Raiz. Call Reis. What are you sleeping in someone? Like how much money are you, you sleep in someone's spare room? If you sleep hot at night, you know how disruptive that can be. Whether you're having

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Okay. My parents had a beautiful house, still have the same house when we moved to Gilbert, Arizona. So they, you know, I had sort of a pad, if you will, right? Today there's more opportunities. You can drive Uber. If you really don't want to take a job of your fresh law graduate. do something, bartend, whatever, pay the bills. For me, it was, you know, let me just try this.

So I had, like, little to no overhead. Eventually got an office. And then I started getting these crazy weird cases. I'm being defamed. I'm on she's a homewrecker.com, right? I don't know if you know these websites. The homewrecker websites. You like that.

What was the other one? Up all night or Are You Up?com. Yeah, there's so many. There's ripoffreport.com. Right. These things started to become something because what people figured out is eyeballs pay on the internet. Right. Right.

And so YouTube was still kind of in its infancy. YouTube started, what, 2005? Yeah, I want to say 2005 because I got caught in 2006 and it had been out a year and I never actually been on YouTube. Yeah. And I didn't really start. I had heard about it. I don't think I'd ever been on it yet. So you're talking about YouTube had, was it?

five-year lifespan at this point, five, six years in. And this concept of people doing videos online and, you know, people are doing, you know, Google, I'm like, this is really interesting. And people started saying, that's when the invention of, I shouldn't say invention, but for purposes of the internet, say whatever you want, but if it gets eyeballs, you can get paid. And that was driving people to say whatever they wanted about whoever, whomever they wanted. And as you know, we have First Amendment, but we also have defamation laws. and they are discrete circles, if you will.

So that's when I started getting these sort of cases with, I've been posted on this. Well, who knows a little bit about the internet? I don't know. I'll call this guy. He's a new, he's a new lawyer. I have people tell me all the time. I'm not going to pay you to learn.

Right. Okay. And I'm like, you're right. You're not going to you. I'm going to be the hardest working guy you know, and your bills will be the cheapest bills you've ever seen. And that to me was my foot in the door, right? I had to prove myself.

Right. So I got to see some crazy, crazy cases. You know, I got to do some other work that made me money and then learn this stuff, and now I'm 15 years in. Like, what's one of the cases? Yeah, I mean. I know you can't say the name of the person. No, I'll give you some examples, right? So she's a homewrecker is a real, it might still be around.

But essentially what happens in these scenarios. Now there's more websites, by the way, targeting men than women. who are allegedly cheating. Right. But first it was going after the ladies. And so I'd get a call. Rice, this is embarrassing. What's going on?

Here's a URL. There's her picture. And it's usually a salacious picture with some cover up. Right. It was a picture that was emailed. And it's now post or text message to someone. And it's posted on this website with a description. This woman is, you know, moho.

She's got an STD. I didn't realize she was married at the time. She's even got a kid. She told me she was just visiting out of town for a good time. She was single. We started having an affair for six months. She's a sleeves bag, you know, avoid her. And oh, her husband divorced her.

Like, there's a whole thing. And usually it's somebody who was in a relationship with that person breaks up and post something. It could be true. It could be true. Right. Right. This is so embarrassing. I'm like, well, first of all, did you, was any of this true?

Did you do this stuff? if you did, I can't say that it's not true. We may have other angles, you know, I should get a lot of these. It was really weird. And I don't advertise. So, well, how do you get that taken down? Or is that possible? Because so here's the other thing. Many of these sites have what I'm going to call, and it may not be in the purest criminal world, what I'm going to call extortion. Yeah, yeah, they just want you to send me 400 bucks and I'll take it down. Hey, you know what? we don't decide who's telling the truth or not. We're just a website.

But, you know, it costs money to change stuff on our platform. So if you want this down, again, we don't care if it's true or not, it's going to be $500. Right. And so I'm like, look, their terms of service say it right there. Right. So if you want, I can email this guy or gal. And some people felt more comfortable with having a lawyer do it.

Other people, look, you can't sue those platforms because of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. reason you can't sue Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok for other people's content. So everybody who comes to you, I want to sue this platform. Like, how could the, no, you can't. Somebody else posted it. Right. So you could pursue that person. If it's bad enough, you could pursue that person. And that's where many, many people said, look, I have the resources. I want to sue my ex. I know who did this. And then we would file a lawsuit. We'd get IP addresses. We'd get an email. people were not as smart in the early stages of that in terms of masking their footsteps to the

extent they knew. We'd file a lawsuit and the names would come up. Gotcha. Right. And now you either say, okay, do you want to settle this? Do you want to go through full-scale litigation? We get settlements all the time. People like, you know, sorry, I'll take it down. I'll publish an apology. But think about it. Having something devastating like that, even if you made a mistake, published to the world in a private situation, that is one of the worst things that can happen to somebody.

Right. Now, if it's false, it's even that much graduated into being a horrible thing. Even if it's true, though, I'm saying people mess up all the time. Right. Okay? And you don't know both sides of the story.

You don't know both sides of the story. And we're in an environment today going into 2025 where a 30-second video can get five million views and your life could be over. A 50 second video can turn you into the Hoctoa girl. You can have your own podcast. I have a lot to say about this.

Run your own. Start your own crypto. She, she, and I did a video on that too. She said when this all first started, I didn't ask to be famous. I didn't. Well, now you did. But you ran with it. You ran with it.

All the opportunity, which I get. I understand that. Look, she'll, I don't remember. She does like some blue collar like farm type stuff. Like I can't remember what her actual gig was. It was something, I almost want to say it was like milk in a cow. It was something very, very, she was working in a dairy farm or something. Something like that.

You know, and she's literally, that's her persona. And she was a little tipsy that day, I'm sure, when she took the interview on the street. But fine, the video goes viral. But you made the decision to go on all those podcasts. You made the decision to talk. to all those people who wanted sponsorships, you wanted the money. And now the Hawk crypto thing,

which 500 million market cap and then plummets to 60 million and then keeps going in cratered. It was a rugpole. A lot of people made poor decisions on it. A few people made concentrated wealth on that. Everybody else lost. And they say, well, she's not a crypto expert,

but why'd you sign your name to that? Right. Like, you know, if you don't know. So again, she's sticking her nose in it. She's a part of it as far as I'm concerned. But this is where we are in 2025. And so I enjoy, for my internet defamation practice, I enjoy helping people who really need justice, where something false is proliferating on the internet.

In today's world, you don't have many options. And I believe in the First Amendment. I do the other side of the coin, too, where somebody's pursuing you for something that is truthful and they want it to get hidden and tucked under the rug. And we defend those cases. And there's a lot of many states, most states now have what's called an anti-SLAPP statute where if the lawsuit on its face is about something truthful or opinion or satirical, right? Like your book that you're going to write about Garth Brooks.

Right. If it's on its face, not a statement of fact that's defamatory, it's false, you can get the case dismissed and sometimes you can even get attorney's fees up front. You don't have to go a year or two years into litigation. So this is the world I live in now. And it's evolving. Every case is different. I enjoy what I do.

I get, I learn something from all my clients. 95% of my clients are entrepreneurs, right? So we do all the internet and, you know, defamation stuff, but then there's the e-commerce side of it. There's representing creators, the intellectual property side of things. So I get to see a lot of cool stuff from a lot of interesting people. Yeah, we've been lucky so far. We've only gotten, we've only had a, we've only had a couple emails to take some videos down.

And we took some videos down ourselves. Yeah, we did take some down. Oh, you know, sometimes it's, I mean, sometimes, you know, we'll get a video and the guy, you know, oh, this, and you can tell your, you're, that's not true. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? It's not true.

And, of course, I'm like, yeah, bro, I'm not taking the video down. And then a week later, or two weeks later, they're like, they'll come back and be like, yeah, bro, I'm sorry. I sent that. It's in the heat of the moment kind of thing. But speaking of getting to, you know, demanding things to be taken down, what really bothered me recently at a celebrity level is Jay-Z sending the demand to Pierce Morgan.

You remember this? I heard about this. Maybe it's been a month ago. Demanding that he take down, it was an interview, and he showed both sides. He was not, Pierce Morgan wasn't making statements about Jay-Z. Right. People were providing opinion. Right.

And the irony of irony is Pierce Morgan's show is called uncensored. Right. So everybody who watches the show knows that, okay, sometimes he, he, personally takes positions on things, but he tries to get both sides of the story. It bothered me, because it's like, where does Jay-Z think that he gets, you know, the permission to send something like that to say, well, you're defaming me. I mean, essentially it was a cease and desist for defamation. I thought that was a lame move, because you are a celebrity and you are at, you were at the pinnacle of discussions of who's next and, oh, look, who's next. Right. So stuff like that is a bullying tactic.

You're famous, dude. People are going to talk about you. You are a list celebrity. So I think it was wrong. But in other circumstances, it might make sense to demand somebody to take something down. Yeah, we've got, we've had a few, like, letters from attorneys saying, you know, I figure one of them was. One guy was in a lawsuit with his company, like a COVID testing company. And then he lost. Oh, he did. He had a lawsuit. He was sued and he lost. And we'd done. a video with him about the whole scam. And so then that then so then they come back and say, hey, by the way, this guy you had on your platform, he said all of this salacious things.

We've sued him. And he lost. He lost. Take the video down. We're going to file a lawsuit against you. You know what I'm saying? Because what he said was untrue. You put it on your platform.

Now, you know, the whole thing was is like, do you say, that's what he said, because I didn't say anything. He's the one who said all of this. That's, you know, and I'm just posting on my thing on my, on my channel. The problem is, is that do you want to have them file a lawsuit, then I have to get it? Like, how much money do I want to, how much of a stand do I want to take? And do we want to have to dump $50,000 into fighting something? And in the end, we get a, the judge says, yeah, he's allowed to keep it up. And I've blown 50 grand on a lot of video that's not really adding much value. Yeah. And some of your listeners, you know, other content creators have probably have the same issue. I mean, I at a minimum, I don't know if you engage the lawyer to at least write a response,

but even if you decided to take it down, I would have at least sent a smackdown letter back, basically saying, this is why you're wrong. And if you want to chase me, I'll get your case dismissed and I'll get my fees. Nevertheless, we don't care about this enough to keep it up. Right. Because a lot of that does happen where you're a publisher. It's not your statement. Unless you made statements. You know, if they said Matt Cox on your show, you said this, this, and this. You're a platform. Yeah.

You know, you're. I'm sure what I said. Yeah. But I don't think I said anything other than what was, this guy gave me information. I might have been like, so what are you saying? They did this or that, you know, because I don't really know. I'm just. Yeah.

I'm not sure that I said, absolutely. That's, these people are running a scam. Yeah. I don't think I've always said anything. And then I've edited, I've went back and or taken down some videos that I'm like, maybe borderline. Because I don't know personally. Like we had some videos of people. just talking about their experience with Cardone.

Oh, yeah. And just so I was like, oh, I got something to tell you about that. Yeah, yeah. That was a question I was going to bring up. Yeah, we had several videos. So we had several videos, yeah. Yeah, it got to a point where we started going, you know how he was pushing.

Can I tell you something? Yeah, go ahead. His lawyer sent me a subpoena last week. Really? Why? What's going on there? And I'm going to be professional about this. Okay.

I'm going to resist my urge not to be because I am a lawyer and I am on a show. But if you hear me talk about this in my office, it's not going to sound the same. Right. Okay? I have done a few videos on Grant Cardone because I don't like what he does.

Yeah. I don't like it from a marketing standpoint. I don't like it from a business standpoint. I don't like it from a legal standpoint. I don't like it from a social standpoint. Because what you're doing, is you are riding profits off the backs of average janes and joes you don't appeal to large institutional investors right maybe now you do maybe i've read the terms okay i've seen the contracts

i know um and i've heard the stories i have personally never invested with him um i have watched many of his videos and what qual just just answer this question what qualifications do you have to run a real estate fund? Right. Okay? What are your qualifications to run a real estate fund? Would you give Tony Robbins $100 million to run a real estate fund? Maybe Tony Robbins has done.

I just pulled that name out of a hat. But he's a big name. He talks. He's a motivational speaker sort of thing. And he's great. I saw him promoting, I don't know if it was like a testosterone replacement thing. He's a spokesperson.

Right. Okay. What business do you have? From a qualification standpoint, running an investment fund, that's the question I'm asking. It would be like, right you saying, look, my personal real estate investment has, have done real. I have 150% returns. Everybody starts sending me your money. Right. Are we okay with that as a society at large scale? Grant Cardone spends more money than anyone else advertising his fund. He brags about it. Now, let me get to why I got a subpoena.

On my Instagram, personal Instagram page, Beard Lawyer, I have videos that I've done in collaboration with a client of mine, Ballerbusters, and I'm on the legal team, right? So I review documents, I look at the stuff, and I comment. It's my opinion. And I've said a few things about him, particularly a recent lawsuit where Beverly Gravina, she is the decedent to a man who invested with Grant,

lost a lot of money, and his case got dismissed because he died during the lawsuit, kind of a thing. Okay. Okay. So she's... She inherited the lawsuit. Well, it got dismissed, and now she's appealing kind of a thing. Okay.

Bottom line is there's, I believe, I believe, based on what I have seen, that there are merits to her accusation of fraud, okay? Whatever the accusations were in the lawsuit, I believe there's merit to it. So I did video on that. I did a video on a few other things. Grant Cardone's lawyers think... By the way, it lawsuits pending here in Florida. Okay.

They think that I am in bed with John Ledger's lawyers or John Ledger, that I'm getting paid to do this. I'm like, are you a dumbass? There's 100 million people talking about you. Right. You pick this lawyer because you're going to bully me. You pick the wrong guy, dude. Right. Like, I do this kind of stuff for a living.

I can pick your case apart pretty well. I've read your pleadings. So I'm not going to tell you what my letter is going to be in response, but he did issue a for all communications and this and this. And they're going to get a nice professional response for me, basically saying that there's nothing. I have, nobody's told me to do this. I did it on my own volition.

And you want to create a conspiracy theory that, like, there's these micro, I don't have a huge following online, okay? It's getting there. But somebody paid me to talk smack about Grant. Is that what you think happened? You're an idiot. Right. And that's the kind of letter they're going to get.

But it's interesting because that's their tactic. They're bullies. They're classic bullies. Look, there are many, he's quoted as saying, well, if there's all these victims, how come, you know, this lawsuit got thrown out. I'm like, really, the SEC has told you in a letter that you don't have a basis to make the claims of the returns you're claiming. It's in a letter that's public record. What about that? Who's talking about that?

So my point is, you could dissect some of this stuff with the scalpel when it comes to Grant Cardone. He's just very verbose. He spends a lot of money. He's a content creating machine. And a lot of people think that in, in 2024, but if you have a lot of views and you have a lot of likes, you must be saying something right. Yeah, that's absolutely.

Like the West Watson's of the world. Untrue. Absolutely untrue. I mean, and with Cardone, you know, it's funny because I don't know about the institutional investors, but I know that most of it, most of the people that are investing are not institutional. Correct. And they're not savvy investors. Correct. Correct.

So, you know, they're not. They're signing the paperwork, maybe saying, hey, I'm worth 250,000 or whatever that, that, that benchmark is to say I'm, I know what I'm doing. So sophisticated, 300,000. 300,000. I'm a sophisticated, I'm worth $300,000. Well, a net worth of a million dollars or an income of 300,000 for the last, 300,000 or more for the last tax year, three tax years. You can prove it. Right.

But that's, that's a sophisticated, accredited investor under security. I would say that they're probably guys that are not sophisticated. 100%. They're making between 50 to 150,000 a year. And they're handing over 20 or 30,000 or 40,000 of their life savings because, unfortunately, they think he's a guru and he's a godsend to investors because he's got 4 million views on this video. And they love the fact that he walked around and he threw out these numbers.

I bought this property for 800,000 and two years later. we sold it for $375, you know, or, you know, $3.5 million. We made a profit of this. We did this. My investors are making this kind of money. And he throws these statements out there without extreme, you know, specifics. Right. And I know because, you know, I would, I can say the same thing.

Hey, I bought this house for $80,000. And then I sold the house for $360,000. And, you know, and that sounds great. You're like, yeah, we renovated it for about $50,000. and we sold it for this much and we, you know, and then you say that and people do the calculation. They go, oh, wow, he made $240,000 on that, on that sale. Well, not really. I gave the guy, his down payment.

I paid his closing costs. I held a second mortgage, which I forgave. You know, you start, blah, blah, boom, we started adding it up and I didn't make that much. I also didn't say that it, I also had to make X amount of mortgage payments. I had to make pay this much for homeowners insurance. I did this. Somebody fell off the roof. There was a lawsuit.

You know, you said like, leaky pipes. There's insurance claims. The AC got sold twice. You know, Matt, you know, you'll say that the hell that you went through to get it. So, you know, you can make those statements. And maybe it's partially true. Maybe the numbers are there. Look, how, to me, this is unfathomable.

How do you tell the working class people with a straight face, you should not buy a home? Yeah. Instead, you should give me your money. So I can buy homes and rent them to you. Are you an idiot? Why that, why would you? Owning a home in America has produced. more wealth than anything else in the history,

go look it up. That's the simple statistic. You don't need to listen to Grant Cardone about don't buy a home. It's not sexy. It's not going to make you... I'm making all the event. Look at me and my colonen.

You know, you know, like... Yeah, I'm flying a jet. I'm a big shot, rich guy, but you're a big shot rich guy off of the backs of working class people. Show me average people who made 10x returns in your program. Your 10X, the Cardone capital 10X,

show me that. Instead, we have a lot more people who've paid $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 a ticket to come see you speak. Right. I was going to say, what's funny is the whole concept of

don't buy a home. So if you're working, so you've got two things that really irritate the living shit on me about Cardone is one is if you're working, if you're making $65,000 a year as a manager at Walmart. And that's the average income.

Let's say the average household income in the United States is something like $110,000. That's both people working. Yeah. You know, maybe the wife might make 40. The husband makes 65 or 70, whatever. Let's say 110, 120, whatever it is. What is the average? 80,000.

80, damn. So the average household income is 80,000. Even worse, right? So it's 80,000. Most people don't have a retirement plan. So your retirement plan is I'm going to retire and I'm going to make $2,800 on Social Security. So here's how the American Dream works. I'm going to work that job, raise my children, pay into Social Security, and if I can pay off my house in 30 years, I have a place to live and I'm going to barely be able to survive on Social Security because I don't have a house payment.

Yeah. That's kind of the extremely obtainable American dream. Grant Cardone is saying you're a fool if you buy a house. You just added $1,200 onto the average person who's getting a check for $26 or $2,800. Like you just, like people that are following that advice, you're destroying. But then the other thing is, he says, is like if you make less than, what was the statement? It's like if you make less than, was it $500,000, $400,000 a year? United States, you're a loser. Do you ever see when he gets up on stage? Just, just, just, just,

I've seen that. Just what a fucking assonine. Yeah. Like, not everybody can, can run seminars. Like, I'll tell you what he, what I give Grant Cardone money for is if, is if I could invest in your seminars. Right. Like, that's what you're good at. No, no, no, I hear an entertainer. You can get on stage. You can sell tickets. Same thing. Tony Robbins or any of these guys. Like, you know, lots of people are good at doing that. But if you were amazing at what you're doing, you'd be doing that. and not doing your seminars. Let me ask you a question. When's the last time you saw Michael Phelps selling swimming lessons?

Yeah, never, right? The guy, and Michael Phelps is actually a great example. One of the most successful Olympic athletes who lives in Paradise Valley, Arizona. I bet you if I saw him at the grocery store, if I sprained into him at Whole Foods and Scottsdale or something, and I said, Michael, you know, you're amazing. Can you give me some tips? He's just tell you.

What is he going to say? Join my online program. Yeah. tell you. He's just been like, oh, bro, what are you doing right now? Let's, yeah. Hey, let's talk. What do you look like? Are you swimming? The guy, he's in the pool six, you know, five to six hours a day. He's swimming miles a day. He's crazy diet. Have you seen his physique? This guy is, is, he's showing the work. He's not selling you

anything. This is what he does. He's an athlete. And that goes, that's the same is true for many athletes, right? You're not going to find the Michael Jordan program for three point shooting. why is that? Right. Some people might say, well, he doesn't need any more money. He's got Nike. Cardone doesn't need any more money. He's worth a billion dollars or something.

He owns half the planet. He's 70-something years old. Listen, he doesn't he 70-something years old? Isn't he 70-something? I think he's less than that. He must be in his 60s. Find out. 65.

Colby has the internet. Yeah. He is 66. Yeah. Okay, you're 66 years old. He looks 76, but he's 66. Yeah. You're 66 years old.

You could retire. Why don't you retire? You could say, well, it's what I do. What else am I going to do? Okay, I get that. Or maybe you're not retiring because you're the linchpin in an organization that if you stopped juggling, being there to juggle the balls, the whole thing comes down. And it's really a Ponzi scheme. Could you imagine if the face of Grant Cardone's institutional programs changed to somebody else?

Oh, it dropped. Yeah, of course, it would be, it collapsed immediately. My favorite one of his programs is like on YouTube where he takes the live calls and people call in and he does the math. He's got the whiteboard. And this is a technique that a lot of people in this space do who are so-called experts that are going to show you something. Caller comes in. First of all, those calls are all screened. I'm pretty sure.

Okay. Oh, what's your question? What are you going to ask? Okay, one, two, three. Oh, how you doing? Hey, Grant, you know, there's this house in Tampa and I was thinking to buy it's $100,000. Okay, let me, give me the house. Okay, 20% down and the thing will rent for 25.

I would do that deal. That's a 25% return. I'm like, you're a monkey. A monkey could do that. Yeah. The thing is, I've flipped, you know, dozens of houses, you know. I've committed fraud on more than that. But I've legitimately, I bought a house, renovated it, and sold it.

And, you know, it takes a long time to go through the whole concept of whether it's going to make any money. And in the end, you make a few hundred dollars per rent. unit, you know, that's on average, unless you can go in and buy things cash or something along those lines. And if he's got investors, then the investors want, like, it's, it's, it's difficult to, to be paying the kind of returns that he's saying he's paying. Yeah. It's tough. I don't know where these properties are. Yeah. Well, you know, you also have the idea of when you have a general fund that's distributing profits, you can afford to offset the things that are, don't perform well. that's the whole concept of pooling an investment,

or investment opportunities. You have a property, or like, let's say three properties are making 100% returns. The rest of them are making 3%. What's the blended average of that? And then you pay a portion to your investor. Right. There are a lot of programs that run like that.

But, you know, it's just comical to me because this is entertainment. It's entertainment. Let's have more transparency of how the money's actually made. Let's have more transparency of what your return. to investors actually are.

Credibility online, right, is a huge, is a huge topic, but people use that, and they sell the sizzle really well. And again, there's something human. It's very much part of our fabric as human beings to be attracted to success. Right. Right. There's science that suggests, like, you know, I was reading this study, actually. I'm forgetting who published it, that, you know, people say, oh, you know, women just like rich, guys are women who just like rich guys are gold diggers, right? Well, the research says that women like a sense of security, protection and provider, the two-piece, be a protector, be a provider. So if you see someone, a man that is demonstrably a protector and a provider,

you're going to be attracted to that. Does that mean you love his money? No, it means you like the attribute. Some like the attribute of that guy being a protector and provider. Some just love the Rolls-Royce or the big mansion or that he's going to buy me all these expensive handbags and take me to fancy dinners. That's different. But my point is it's part of our fabric to feel that inertia of I want that protection and be a provider for my family. It's natural.

People pray on that. Yeah. You know? West Watson is a great one. I was going to try. He's a great one. I was going to try and lead to West Watson. He's a, let's just jump right into it.

He's an abusive. abusive person physically. He's a... I know. I know because I've talked to people who are close friends with women that he's put hands on. This is not something that's in the closet, okay?

I have a buddy who just interviewed his ex-girlfriend. So he just interviewed her. And she's like, you know, saying that, you know, yeah, he's he's a maniac. He's a monster and he's, you know, extremely, you know, he's a bully. which all of which you know anyway, but. Well, he's been interviewed as saying, oh, you know, guys can't find good women because

other guys have ruined it for other guys. And because you are not treating them like real ladies, oh, you must be speaking from personal experience, West, because you know deep down how you treat women. Yeah. That's the kind of human beings. Let's not even, let's not even mix that up with who he is for. from a business standpoint. Right.

It's terrible. Well, let me, listen, listen, real quick, real quick, sorry, and then I'll stop. But I've had multiple people contact me who have paid him. I even had one guy who got me in the phone. He's like, I am begging you to do this. And I was like, what? He said, he had paid Wes, what was it, $500? I don't remember the amount, but it was like $500 to get on a call, a 30-minute phone call

with him. He said, he called me a bitch three times within the first five minutes, hung up on me twice, and then eventually just stopped returning. He said, so I called back. He was, and when I, he said, and then, and then like the third call, he did, would even answer it. He was, but he kept my 500 bucks. And that's it. Like, he just screamed and holl.

He said, I would, dude, I'll pay for it if you'll get on a call with him. You know, just because he's getting a call with him. Because it'd be hilarious, right? It would be so funny content. I said, bro, this guy's going to do the same thing to me. He's just going to scream at you and holler at you and call your names and say, you're a loser. But see, that's not the first time he's done that. Do you know how many stories there are?

There's video of this. Oh, there are tons of people. And he takes your money. I paid for 30 minutes. And he said he's texting him. I paid for 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah.

This is a guy who's claimed, oh, I get up at 245 in the morning. I've got my routine. And, you know, and I sleep at 11. And, you know, if you want to be on my program, literally programs he's advertised, where you can get a one hour Zoom,

one-on-one with me, one-hour group meeting, a training, I'll do your CRM. And it's only $3,000 a month. Everybody signs up. Because what is he doing? He's selling the sizzle.

He's standing in front of his Airbnb and his leased cars and his least woman, which is a recent one. You know that. No, least. What do you mean she's least? You mean like she's a- This is a chick he found on an escort website, one of them. Okay. It's been verified.

Right. Okay. I'm just telling you what I saw. Yeah, he's not. I don't see anybody hanging out with him behaving the way he behaves. No, exactly. But here's my point. Even that, that example I just gave you, the Instagram picture he posted.

posing with her and like the headline was something to the effect of if you don't like post a picture of you and your girl you're like a loser right and then internet sleuths or internet sleuths like oh you mean this girl and they pull her eros.com profile and put it right next to her it's like that's the girl it is the girl so yeah we want to talk about fakeness then the whole thing about prison he was not in shoe he was not in and people who were in in Like he, again, the story, I'm a guy I was in prison, a maximum security prison. People reported to me in prison. I was shot caller.

I did 10 and a half years in California State maximum security level five, you know. All of it's dog do-doo. Yeah. He was reporting to people. And he, it's just, it's wild to me. And by the way, why does that mean you're successful in business? I mean, obviously it does it. Here's what really bothers me is that.

And I've met guys like this before. I actually wrote a book about a guy named Marcus Shrinker. Marcus Shrinker was a pathological liar. You may have heard of Marcus Shrinker. In 2008, do you remember a guy took his, it was a financial advisor, had taken his plane up and flown, sorry, he was flying through Alabama to Florida. He had left in Illinois, I think. Anyway, he had flown. He calls in a distress signal and says,

I'm, my, there's turbulence. My windshield is spider cracking. Oh, my windshield's imploded. Ah, I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding profusely. And then he hangs up the thing. And then the plane goes.

What he did was he jumped out of the plane with a parachute. He was trying to fake his own death. And he was hoping his calculation said the plane was going to go out over the bay and run out of fuel. But because he opened the door, it burned off. too much fuel and it couldn't regain altitude. So he brought it down and it couldn't pull itself up. So it ran out of fuel and crashed miles, a few miles before it got to the bay in a wooded area. But the thing about him is he lied all the time.

Everything was bigger. He lied about being in the military. He flew jet fighters in the military. You were never in the military. You were never in the Air Force. You're never, he flew a, you know, he flew. Warthogs, you know, the warthogs, you know, warthogs, this many missions in Afghanistan, you know,

you were never in the army. You were never in the Air Force. You were, like all, you know, said he was in the, you know, he was in the first wave that went into Iraq, you know, you were 18 or you were 19. You would have been the youngest pilot in history. Like, none of these things are true. He said all of these, all of these things about himself.

And really, you know, he was on the team for NASA that investigated the Challenger explosion. Oh, my God. insane. Now, here's the thing about them. And this is what the reality is. Reality is you were a financial advisor. You had all the licensing. You owned your own financial wealth management company. You drove nice vehicles. You had a very nice house. You have a gorgeous wife. You have three beautiful children. You are a, you have multiple planes. You are a stunt pilot. You are a top tier individual. Why do you have to lie?

Wes, you were in prison. You did seven years. You were maybe in Arizona being housed because California housed some of their inmates in Arizona, wherever they used house. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't in those penitentiaries. You weren't a shot caller. You went to prison as kind of a low-level loser.

You retrained yourself. You read a bunch of literature. You decided to get out and be a motivational speaker and train people and work them out. And you thought this was something you could do. you feel like you turned your life around, and you could have run with that, and you probably would have been just successful. Let's say you were half as successful. Half is successful, but an honest individual.

And right now I would be saying, listen, what an amazing guy. What an amazing turnaround. What an amazing. I would be saying that. Instead, 90% of that influencer is out there hate your guts. You're a liar. And I like to think, unfortunately, I like to think in the end that would catch up with him and people would just discard him.

but the truth is, these guys idolize him for all the wrong reasons, and they'll probably keep idolizing him. But you're right. You have no, there's no business acclimate. That's like guys will come to me and they'll want to pay me. I got a guy right now who's in Instagram who's asked me multiple times, like, I will pay for your advice, your business advice. First of all, I have never run a business that did not include fraud.

my business, my business success has all been based on some type of a fraud. You're perfect then for these influencers. Maybe you should be. I should be coaching West Watson. You should be coaching these guys. But guys are asking me like, I want to start a business and talk to you about it. Why? You know what?

I've owned multiple mortgage companies, multiple development companies, construction companies. I've done lots of businesses. All of them were rooted in some type of fraud. do not my first my first a bit of advice to any of these guys is do not hire someone whose only business success in life has been based on fraud yeah that's just a bad decision and if i was west watson though i'd have these dudes lined up taking every bit of money from them yep never give them their money back give them some bullshit advice and then the moment they said yo bro i did everything you said my business failed i'd be like well you just

fucked up yeah you're just a loser you're a loser you didn't do it right you didn't try hard enough You didn't wake up at three. You didn't yell enough. You didn't scream enough. You weren't abusive enough. You didn't work 12 hours a day. It's all your fault. Not mine.

I'm keeping your money. Because that's what he does. To add fuel to the fire, if you question him, right? Oh, it's abuse. Oh, it's comical. So he's a, he's a cartoon character. He's a villain. I've said that.

He's literally a cartoon character. I think you watched my video on him. No, no. I don't think so. That's what I said. I said, this guy's a cartoon character. He's, we just think alike in that sense. He's, but.

But Wes is one of many, right? He just has spent a lot of money to articulate a persona that seems attractive and sexy and successful. And to a large degree with a certain demographic that works, that's all they need. Look, Bernie Madoff did what he did because he was a charismatic guy with a good reputation. And you see this where it's like the symbiotic relationship with greed, it's like venom, you know, for the Marvel movies. It's like it gets into you and you're watching it grow and it takes over you.

And you could kind of pull yourself out of it. But a lot of these guys, they just live in the venom skin. That's all they do. And people see them as heroes. And people have defended him. Hey, oh, well, yeah, he does say some great things. Everybody says some great things. Yeah.

Yeah, listen, a broken clock is right twice a day, right? Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in a while. Right. Right. Yeah, that's actually a good one. I've never heard that one before. But there are things that he says that sound very sexy and sound very motivational. Wonderful. You're going to charge people three grand a month to hear that crap. Why don't you tell people how not to go to prison and do it for free for a few years? Why don't you do that and do a supplement business on the side? You know, it's just the rapid decline of our society right now related to the the internet is people who have a platform who should not. And if you have a mic and you can spend some money, get some ad dollars or whatever, and just promote some amazing opportunity, people are going to listen to you. And look, this has been going on for decades. Just now there's

internet and cameras. Yeah. Snick oil salesman. That's it. I was going to say, what about just being humble and appreciative and live beneath your means until you make enough money where you can, you can live at the level you have earned. How about that? I agree. And the other thing that really that bothers me is, look, I represent a lot of people who are legitimate. It depletes from the legitimacy of what's going on.

Right. People who are legitimately serial entrepreneurs who maybe want to charge consulting, right? Maybe high-level fees, fees that I couldn't afford, right? It depletes the veracity of their story. Because, like, oh, this guy looks like another one of these. But no, they're not. Some of them only speak now.

They're not charging private consulting fees. A friend of mine, you'll know the name. People who are elite level coaches, like Tim Grover. Do you know Tim Grover? Tim Grover. Michael Jordan's coach is that? Michael Jordan's coach. Tim Grover is he was Michael Jordan's first physical fitness rehab coach.

Okay. His story, you can read about him. He's got a book winning. He's got another book, Relentless. I mean, this stuff will change the way you think. It's mindset training. But people like him, everyone can learn from. If you want to know how elite performers think under time pressure and stress,

he's the guy you can call to tell you. But guess what? Not average, he could do an average show program, too. But his stuff is real. He's a guy who was literally in the locker room or in the hotel room with Michael Jordan the day before they're playing the critical game against Utah Jazz. He knows what Michael ate, how he slept, what he drank, what shots he took, how to prepare. He did the same thing with Kobe Bryant.

He did the same thing with Dwayne Wade. He was doing the same thing with Connor McGregor to prepare him for his big fight that ended up not happening. My point is these are elite level people. They are people that you could trust. with, hey, I'm going to sit in your audience and listen to you on stage or give me something of nutritional value for my brain to build my business. People like that who've done those things. Not people who their whole, you know, sort of what they're known for is selling what

they're known for. It's this circular weird matrix, right? I said that the other day that the real, so this chick did a real, and I'm sure this you've seen this before, where she says, you know, I'm going to tell you how to make, you know, $60,000 a month doing, you know, doing YouTube or doing whatever, doing a Instagram Reels. I think I saw her ad on YouTube, right? In between.

And she says, and she says, first thing you do is make a reel talking about how you make $60,000 a month on Reels. That's literally what I just, it's literally. Rent a, you know, rent a nice villa. Rent a, you know, then she starts talking about all the rented, rented, rented, you know, and goes through this whole thing. And she's like, people will send you money to do, you know, it's. But it's so true.

It's just fake it, fake it. It's like, okay, in the end, it's, you're not making anything. You know, she's doing it, obviously, it's a joke. But the truth is, you're right, in the end, you're not doing anything. And honestly, if you want to get, do you want to improve your life and you want to get business advice and improve your life and improve yourself as an individual? I can tell you how to do it for free. Just go watch Jordan, not, not Belford, Jordan. Peter.

Peterson. Yeah. Go watch Jordan Peterson. He'll, he's got hundreds of hours. of lectures talking about, and he takes you from someone who's just non-functional to a functional human being that can set and obtain their goals. And he does it for free. It's completely for free. You know, does he have courses? Yeah, he has courses you can pay for. Do you want to learn how to write a book? Do you want to learn how to do this? Do you want to do that? How to think,

how to improve those. He has courses, but they're reasonable courses. Yeah. You know, most people, And he starts from the very beginning, which is make your bed in the morning. Make your bed in the morning. And it's like, oh, that's so stupid. No, it's not stupid. It changes everything. It does. Clean your room.

And it seems stupid. But when people do that, it suddenly, it starts changing everything. Yeah, be healthy, sleep well. Right. Eat correctly. Exercise. Right. Right.

Right. It's free. It's free. Yeah. for between, you know, let's just say the good and the bad players. Yeah. How do you weed out the snake oil salesman? Here's what I would say.

If somebody, let's start here, you're selling something. Somebody's selling something and you're looking at it and it sounds attractive. Ask yourself why they are selling what they're selling. First question, why? What credential do they have? What reason are they in this business for? you know, if somebody is going to teach you how to rent cars on Turo. Right.

Okay. Hey, I'm an expert in car. Let's find out. Did they run a dealership or just some Joe who woke up one day and said, I can get a bunch of eyeballs on TikTok videos. Right. Okay. Find out who found out why they are doing what they're doing. Find out what their credentials are.

And then is it too good to be true? These are just three simple things just as like a threshold question. You can eliminate 90% of the crap out there just with that. Just with those things. There are plenty of good coaches. They're usually not the people standing.

I've literally seen these YouTube videos and TikTok videos with people with cash sitting in front of them. Yeah. How pretentious is that? So you need to stop. everybody needs to hear this. If you're convincing yourself based on what you're seeing in a video, there's something wrong.

Right. Listen to it and say, does this make sense? Talk to other people. Find out experiences. Look, as a lawyer, it's really hard to be a good lawyer. It's really hard. People pay you. There's expectations. You may have to refund.

And as lawyers, we can't even guarantee your result. ethically, I can't say, Matt, come to me, I'll guarantee you get this case dismissed. Yeah. It's unethical for me to do that, okay? We apply these rules of ethics into other professions. Those professions would fail overnight. It's a very high bar. It's already hard enough for me to be a lawyer and advise people, right?

Imagine now people that have, it's free for all. Just take a money, don't perform, say whatever you want, promise results, even with FTC rules and all these things, people are getting scam left and right. So I guess the tip is just pay attention. Don't jump. There's no such thing as quick results. There's no such thing. Some people are lucky.

Some people are in the right time at the right place. That stuff does happen. It's serendipitous, okay? But it's not how most people are doing it. Most people's good old fashioned hard work, building a network, being a good person, working hard, getting access to capital, getting access to networks. Those things are real.

Right. I do keynote speaking, right, for banks. Oh, that's great. The same banks that I ripped off, the same credit unions that I ripped off, the same. So I do keynote speaking where I go in, I tell my story over the course of 45 minutes, and then they ask, they're supposed to ask 15 minutes of questions. It ends up being 30 minutes, and then the coordinator ends up having, all right, right, we got to stop.

We're going to stop because I'll just keep answering, right? Inevitably, after that's done, you're offstage. People have more questions. I'll stand in the lobby and answer questions. And what happens is several of these guys will come to me and say, and it's usually like obviously the security people, the fraud, I'm sorry, the fraud departments. Somebody will come and say,

look, would you be interested in coming with and talking to us about building a system? And they always want to say, how do we stop this? How do we stop that? Yeah. And the problem is, is, you know, what I always do when they say, hey, would you be interested in coming in and being, you know, a consultant on this or that? I always say, look, I wouldn't. I don't know how this works.

I don't know how that works. I can tell you my story. I can tell you what the red flags are, how to stop those red flags and the people that I or the banks that I defrauded and the red flags that they saw that they ignored. I can tell you that. But I don't know how to build your system to stop fraud without making it so overwhelmingly difficult for you to even do loans. Because what happened, you can sometimes make it, you could do the perfect loan. but it would be extremely expensive, and you would eliminate a whole bunch of people

that should get the loan. Just to eliminate one or two of some fraudsters that in the end is going to cost you more in the end than just let them slip through and take care of it based on the, you know, raise your interest rate a little bit more, you know, whatever. Some are going to slip through. You're not going to stop them.

So, you know, but the difference is that even me an extremely flawed individual. I can say, yeah, pay me $5,000 and I'll come, pay me $20,000 and I'll advise you. I'm not going to do that. That's not my expertise. You shouldn't be asking me that. You know, same, just like with the business thing,

I'm not going to talk to you about that. I'm not going to give you advice on that. I don't have the pedigree to do it. And it's the same thing with the, hey, help us build a system to, I don't know. I know how to try and fit, how to fuck that system up and get through it. that I can tell you how I would go about doing it.

I could maybe help you troubleshoot, but I can't help you build that system. And it'll be wrong for me to charge you to do that. But these guys don't have that problem. Let me tell you the analog. I love that you said that. So we get most of our inquiries through our website. We'll fill out a form.

I get DMs also. Our other Instagram pages get DMs. So we charge for consultations. For most times. Once in a while, if something's a passion project, I'll talk to someone. somebody. The number of times people get upset when you say we look at the intake, my office staff will review it, they'll have a call with the person or we'll exchange some emails, and then we

have a backdoor conversation. I look at the intake, I talk to my office, I'm like, you know, it's not even worth a console. I really can't help this person. Do I want them to pay me $200 to say that? Sometimes it's worth the conversation because I can at least tell them these are your options. Sometimes it's a scenario such that there's not even options I can give you and people get upset. Right. Can you ask Mr. Muhammad why he didn't want to take my consultation? Because I can't justify taking the $300 to talk to you for for 30 minutes because I already know you don't have a case. And then they'll leave me a bad review. Don't trust this guy. He wanted $10,000 for Mike. Had you had you taken the, the, the, the, the,

consult the three hundred out the consultation fee and then explained it during that you would have taken 300 bucks and he probably he probably would have been more happy probably some of those people you just can't make happy no matter what and part of it you're right and part of it is a demographic thing like so we deal with a lot of you know only fans creators have their content leaked or stolen or there's discrete IP stuff or there's revenge so we're the number of inquiries on I had a relationship with somebody and that content or salacious text message or images is now getting posted or being threatened to post an arc like that since COVID. Unbelievable how much this is happening. Now, it could have been happening and we didn't know about it and people finally found like

that we were writing articles and blogs about it. And people said, oh, there's something we can do about it. But we know like Taylor Swift, right, when all of those AI images came out about her, Congress was writing the next revenge statute. It's been happening to average jokes. for years and Janes, right? Right. When somebody important happens to you,

but my point is like, we see these kinds of things, and it's really the underbelly of society. Right. You know, the kinds of problems that people deal with, as it relates to the Internet, you really get to learn how crazy we are as humans and the kinds of things that we do.

But people need help. I mean, the reason I brought that up is because those are people who legitimately need help. And we try to figure out fees arrangements to make it work for them. What exactly for the viewer who may not know is baller busters and what do they do and also how are you affiliated with them? Yeah, baller busters, it's interesting. So I'm on the legal team. You know, there's, it's a group of people, very sophisticated, high level people. And it's funny, they started by, I think their first bust was these fake watch people. Fake watch people. Oh, okay, people making the counterfeit watches.

Correct. selling them, training them. Yeah, reps. Yeah. This sounds so much better than counterfeit. Yeah, reps. But Baller Buster started as a joke, and what it turned into was getting refunds to victims of scamps

and charging nothing for it. They don't say, come to us, we'll get your refund, we'll take 10%. Nothing close. At one point, they were getting refunds of hundreds of thousands of dollars for victims per week. Just think about that for free by educating them. This is why voices need to speak.

If you were legitimately, like the guy who said, I'll pay you or whatever, just talk about, I paid Wes Watson 500, tell people how he did me dirty. More of that needs to happen. So people can understand what they're doing. And that's where Baller Buses was born, right? And it's literally Baller Busters. It's the fake people. And their diligence team is enormous, meaning they get the documents.

They'll get the court records. They'll look at public record. They'll talk to experts. They don't say things about people unless they can verify it to the best that they can. There's plenty of DMs from people saying, you know, I've been scanned by this guy or gal. Like, for example, I'm going to just bring it up, Andrew Tate. Many people would ask, baller busters, like, why don't you bust Andrew Tate? And the response is, there's nothing to bust.

Right. Because he does have a program where you can join for like $49 a month. it's nothing close to the West Watson's of the world. In fact, people who have joined his program say they actually learned real tangible skills in business, okay? Right. Now, you may not like the optics of who he is or what he stands for in the machismo and this, that, and the other thing, that doesn't mean he's a scam.

Yeah. That's his biggest problem is his delivery. That's really it. The content, with the exception of one or two things that he's said that I disagree with, you know, I think most of it is, it's very much Jordan Peterson. It's make, be a man, get up, get up early, work out, make your bed, do what you say you're going to do, set your goals, work towards those goals. Like, these aren't horrible concepts.

So it's interesting because, yes, he did run certain things like chats or video cam girls, whatever he did, okay? Yeah. He's not telling you to do that. Right. He has a history. He's done what he's done. people think it's slimy, people think it's whatever.

But guess what? He's not telling you to do that. He's in fact not even promoting that. He's not saying start your own webcam business, give me $100 a month. He's not doing it. I've never heard him say that. Yeah, he says stuff is controversial. The guy's a character.

He's created a persona. That's what a lot of people don't understand about him either. He's not like that with his friends and family members. He's created a persona. In many respects, it's genius marketing. Right? It is controversial. Of course it is.

But then there's people say, well, he's a fraud, you know, he's trafficking women. And his criminal case is really interesting. Okay. Has it been dropped yet? Because no, there was, I haven't seen. He's 100% guilty. He was one, everybody I talked to. Oh, he's guilty.

He's trafficked women. Absolutely. He's evil. They wouldn't have arrested him. They wouldn't have this. I love that line. They wouldn't have arrested him. Okay.

Look, first of all, this is Bucharest, Romania. Yeah. This is not exactly constitutional capital of the world. or due process rights. They have a totally different system. The allegations, as far as I have seen in read online, and not everything is public, okay, I'm not seeing a lot of substance.

And so the latest ruling earlier in November was from a Bucharest Court of Appeals that the latest charges on, you know, assaults and trafficking, that three key pieces of evidence had no basis. three key pieces of evidence had problems, and therefore the counts that were entered relating to those had to be withdrawn. Now, the Court of Appeals gave them five days, the prosecutors, to fix or withdraw those claims. I don't know what's happened since then. It hasn't been a lot of

reporting, and I tried to search it just on my way here even. There's not a lot of reporting on that. But it does tell us something about it. A court of appeals reviewed a prior ruling and said, you got problems, prosecutors. Okay, this is not some reporter saying it. So, you know, this trial will happen if it does in April or May. When did he get arrested, June, 2023? And so far, we haven't seen anything. You know, by the way, I would encourage people to read the definition of trafficking

as it's pled in the criminal complaint. You might be surprised. Anything could probably, yeah. Just enticing a woman to come see you in another country, right? And then she says, oh, I want to leave now, hey, finish your job that you came here for. Because they crossed international lines, it has a trafficking-esque fragrance to it, right? It's like holding someone hostage. What does that mean?

Are you holding me hostage? The door shut, you know, the camera's on. Do I feel pressure? I might leave here and say, man, Matt pressured me into staying here. I feel like, you know, I was kidnapped. Right. And you know, the definition of these things can be blurry. So again, lawyer's job is to look at it and see both sides, weigh the evidence, understand the evidence.

It's funny when ultimately if they end up having a trial or dropping the whole thing and he walks out, it is, it's, it kills me because the same people that were screaming from the mountaintops that he was, you know, Can't say racist? No? Was a, R. Now, mute it. Was a, you know, the people that, the same people that were screaming from, yeah, saying that he had assaulted, you know, these women and trafficked them.

And when the whole, when it all gets dropped, right. You know, instead of them saying, wow, you know, maybe there was nothing to it or, hey, those accusations were unfounded or they'll just say nothing. Or they'll just continue to say that he's just, well, he just had a good lawyer and they didn't get him on it. And that because you want to believe. this because you dislike the person. So what's interesting is people are now saying, well, he's rich. You don't think in a country like Romania, he can have influence.

I'm like, so your theory is that he's placed himself under house arrest and brought, he's paid, listen, he's paid the government of Romania to charge him because we know the charging documents. That's your theory. People are crazy. Yeah. You know, it's, it's, look, I don't just. judge the merits of what somebody's doing in business based on whether I like them or not, at least on the face. Like, Wes Watson, I don't like him. But the merits of what he's doing and

saying we can dissect very clearly. Same with Grand Cardone. Same with anybody. You don't have to like or hate Andrew Tate to realize whether, you know, the criminal charges being broad or bogus or not so far that we can see. Okay. So on all these subjects that we've kind of touched on, what are your predictions, I guess, first for let's go the United Shooter, Luigi. What do you think will happen? You know, I think with Luigi... Probation?

Just show you. Yeah. They're going to throw the book at him. It's premeditated. They're going to, there's more evidence is going to come out about his plan, about who he was. The sinister character is he was not just an average,

nice guy who was doing the world justice by cleaning up corporate greed. That's not the story that's going to come out. That's my gut. He's going to get a life sentence. That's what I think is going to happen. Prosecutors are certainly going to ask for it. The mandatory, whatever, you know,

I'm pretty sure it's going to be a life sentence that you look. Do they have the death penalty in New York? You know, that's a great question. I think I know the answer to this. Do you think the social media, I mean, it's very rare that you see like support of someone like this? Like, do you think any of that stuff has any effect on what happens, on any type of ruling or whatever?

So I think social media absolutely plays a role in, a fair trial, both ways. And you saw Johnny Depp versus Amber Heard, the defamation lawsuit after Amber Heard essentially lost, she did prevail on some of her claims. Remember, it's just on the balance of things, Johnny won more. But her lawyers and her were like, I didn't get treated well in social media. People were making fun of how I looked and how dumb I sounded. He's like, yeah, you sounded dumb. Your stories were dumb. They were not credible. So, but can it taint the jury pool? That's the question.

So it can. All of this can, right? How he looked, where he went to school, nice guy, six pack, all this stuff. And we got to handle corporate grade. It can't because remember, you know, juries get selected and you can't strike every juror you don't like. Right. Yeah, you can go, yeah, I was going to say. So basically, it's, I always think of it like this is I remember being in getting,

in an elevator one time. This was when Bush and Gore were running against each other for president. I stood in there and these two women were in the elevator and one woman said, who are you voting for? And she goes, oh, no, it was Clinton. It was Clinton. She said, um, who I'm voting? She's, oh, I'm voting for Clinton. She goes, and the, she says, really, why? She's he's way better looking than Bush. And I thought, what an idiot. But then I thought, but for every one of her, there's somebody who's voting for him for another stupid reason. Yep. So, you know, you're right.

It's back and forth. It's back and forth. I mean, if juries can be, and of course, juries are given instructions during trials. Can't watch social media. Don't talk with anybody about how many of them are listening. Yeah. They get in their car and be like, let me just see what the headlines say about the case. This is probably the biggest thing to ever happen in them in their entire life.

100% it is. And people want to talk to them. And it's like the second the case ends, they've got all these interviews. And then members of the jury, like, start blogs. And so bottom line, it absolutely can. And it's very, very hard for judges to manage that. It's very hard.

What do you think will happen with this recent JZ lawsuit? You know, I have mixed feelings about this one. I feel like Tony Busby either should have more than he's told us about or he knows there's something out there that he can get his hands. hands on. Right. I don't think he would file such a lawsuit without some discreet plan on how he's going to prove his claims. The other side of it makes me wonder, since we all saw P. Diddy settle the next day after a lawsuit, is that how he thought this would play out? But you got to ask yourself, Tony, if you thought that was going to happen, you needed to have a master plan if he would

have flipped and done the opposite thing too, which, and now Jay-Z is clearly denying anything. So I think it's hard to predict because my predictions are based on evidence and what can and should come up. You don't really know everything, yeah. I don't know. Now that Jay-Z has come out and said, I'm not giving you a penny, I don't think he's going to backtrack. Right. I don't think he's going to, you're going to find a quiet settlement because Jay-Z is Jay-Z. Right. Right? He's got to live with that for the rest of his life. Yeah. If, we're What he could have done was settled it and tried to keep it confidential and just said, look, I have kids. I have a 13-year-old daughter.

I don't want my family getting dragged into this. That's why I settled. And nobody would have found out most likely. Right. Right. Meaning found out the substance of what happened. Here you have them. Well, I mean, they still would have found out because Diddy has to, it's a part of the same loss.

You're right. From the standpoint of he may be still called to testify. He may be. And then, by the way, P. Diddy's civil defense. He has the ability to share. shift fault and blame. So if there was two assailants and somebody's looking for damages resulting from one act, he could literally as part of his, you know, defense throw JZ or anyone else under the bus.

The likelihood of him doing that, though, the consequences are too severe, I think. I don't think Diddy would turn on JZ or vice versa. I don't think that's a scenario. Well, it depends on what Diddy has on Jay Z. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like if he goes forward and says, look, I'll settle because I was there and I'll be a witness against what Diddy did. Yeah.

But I didn't do any of these things. So, you know, but if he does that, then does, in other cases, does Diddy find, done he realizes this immediately, of course, and, you know, Diddy may then say, you know what, I wasn't going to say anything before, but you've done this and this. Who knows? Who knows how much dirt these guys have on each other? See, and this is the thing. The discovery will be very interesting.

Who's called to testify, what they saw, what they know. and who turns on the other person? I had a story one time I wrote, right? And while I'm interviewing this guy, he's talking about a cop that he was, there was a cop that was head of a task force that was setting up drug dealers for this guy and his brother to rob.

And when I'm interviewing the guy, the brother, I'm like, okay, I'm like, he's like, well, he ended up getting arrested. Now, my guy was still free, but the main cop got arrested, the cop that was running the task force because he got arrested because he was working with somebody else

and they were, he was moving, he was taking like his, he was driving, delivering drugs to Miami, knowing if I got pulled over, I can say, boom, I'm a sergeant or a lieutenant in the head of the such and such drug task force because they're not going to search me. Well, he ends up, somebody else gets busted and tells the police and the feds bust him. And I was like, damn, I was like, were you worried that he was going to, because he starts cooperating. And I said, were you worried that he was going to cooperate against you? And he goes, nah, he said, he had me kill some.

one time. He said, so I knew he was never going to mention my name. Wow. Oh, shit. So that's the kind of thing. Do you see what I'm saying? Listen, this is high level stuff. There's talks about, you know, like who killed Tupac, who killed Biggie.

I'm not saying that's what it is. No, no, no, but I'm saying. People have dirt on each other. People have dirt on each other. You're running in these circles. They're super rich, elitist type of people. and this case will turn on who's going to turn on someone. Let me make that as a prediction.

If there's witnesses that say, look, I was on this side, but I'm actually going to squeal and rat out this guy, there are any witness protection in an island somewhere where you can live the rest of your life and peace, but that's a possibility. Well, I mean, listen, and you would think that in the hip-hop community, people wouldn't do that, but I don't know about you. T.I. is still producing music, right? Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like these guys do it and they come out and they see, yeah, I did it. Fuck that. Fuck that. And boom, they start making the music again and they lose half their base and they get another half their base and they continue making millions of dollars. And before you know it, nobody gives a shit. Yeah. You're right.

So. You're right. I'm going to lump all these into one and you can just choose what you think. So we got Hocktua, crypto scam, West Watson, the Cardones of the world, these type of social influencers, is there anything that you think will happen to these guys legally? Yeah, Hawk to a, like, so here's a thing. Is Hawk to a girl going to jail? Right.

That's the thing. You know, it's interesting about that is I do think that the SEC needs to make an example and the DOJ should make an example of someone with these coins. It's just rampant and it's crazy. The question is, is she the one? Right. How are they going to prove what she knew and she didn't know? Are they going to make an example?

It's going to be text. I mean, what about, what about, real quick, what about Logan Paul? Yeah. And the, the crypto zoo coin or whatever to hell that. How did he not get? Did you see the texts? Yeah. How did he not end up getting indicted?

This is why I think there needs to be an example made. It's such a free for all. And people say, well, investors are stupid. You're investigating in, you're investing in dodo coin. You don't get to steal. It doesn't matter. Bingo. Bingo.

So you're telling me that if I go out and I steal from stupid people, it's okay? It's okay. No, they should be stupid people. It's like old people, you know, old people, vulnerable victims are supposed to be protected. I know because I got an enhancement for vulnerable victims. You know what's funny? The SEC rules for who's a sophisticated investor and who's not were designed to protect non-sophisticated investors.

That's the whole premise. of these rules. So I think it needs to be investigated. I think whether she goes to jail or not, I think there needs to be a serious investigation. It's just too rampant. It's too rampant. Too many people are getting away with it.

So, yeah. And then these, I would say, social media entrepreneurs that have, maybe not, I don't know, I feel like most of it's unethical. Yeah. Like, do you think any of it is criminal? You don't have to say specifics or whatever you think.

I think a lot of it is criminal, but it gets written off as being civil, that, oh, it's just a contract dispute and, you know, you didn't get a refund and this and this. The reality is that it rises to, when enough people get duped, enough people in a significant dollar amount, it is, it should be criminal. And it is criminal, right? We have statutes where things are civil until it hits a threshold and then it's criminal. There's too many of the lifestyle fakers, there's too many, I get DMs about these guys all the time. this guy lost this. I was going to get an automated Amazon store. I was going to automated this thing.

All I had to do with this. And again, maybe you and I wouldn't invest in that. Maybe we don't need to and we never would. But there are people who see the upside and they believe what people tell them. And they see a lifestyle. Somebody needs to go to jail. And by the way, people have, the Federal Trade Commission has, you know, the DOJ is their enforcement arm. So we have the FTC Act.

We have Section 5, deceptive practices for this reason. right to attach civil and criminal penalties. And I think we need to exercise those things on all these guys. So will enforcement actions increase? I think they will. I think especially with coins, but even with coaching programs. FTC said all kinds of things about these coaching programs. Just nobody's getting sort of nailed to the cross, if you will, yet, as big as it should be.

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