Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - True Crime Has NEVER Been This Funny | The Theo Von of Crime Stories

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

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I did an episode on a guy named Carl Tanzler who got obsessed with this lady that died of tuberculosis, and then he slept with her corpse for 30 years. He stole her body from the graveyard. But the thing that they don't tell you about gay clubs in a bathroom in that place was like Mad Max, man. You know that dude playing the guitar that shoots the fucking flames in front? That's like the bathroom of a gay club. Like him being chased through the fucking. Yeah.

He's a guy with a ball gag. I walk over and I'm over the shower stall. I don't like the way you talk to me in front of your friends. Baby, please. Oh, shit. And I, listen, everybody in there, humiliated for this guy. So, Chase and Kent.

Yeah. Okay. And you guys do a podcast together. We just work for the same company and we do a lot of projects together, but we, he has his thing and I have my thing. And occasionally I go down on him or like whatever he needs. Right.

Okay. Okay. No, we're just friends. Went sideways. That went bad. No, we have a separate podcast. We're just under the same company. Okay.

Yeah. Let me do my intro, please. Let me just do that. Okay. Hey, this is Matt Cox. We're here at Podfest. Fuck all. What did I say?

Where are we? That's fucking close enough. Huh? CrimeCon. Hey, this is Matt Cox. We're here at CrimeCon. And we are with, I want to say true crime kin

And Jimmy That's close as shit Or Chase Chase This is the first crime con we've done But we've done horror hound Before which is like a horror convention And I'm from Kentucky

So I've got to be very careful with how It's a horror or convention We're still trying to get our way into the horror conventions But Yeah it's like mainly like For movies, Friday the 13th, not Maryland, Elm Street and stuff. So we've done that a few times. This is our first CrimeCon.

CrimeCon is a little expensive. But, um, so, yeah, we go out and do that and get the booth and sell merch or whatever. Okay. For, for your own, just for your own stuff. 1159. Um, and the owner of 1159, his name is Sam Swenson. He's also there. But he had to, somebody had to stay at the booth.

So he's at the booth. Um, and yeah, we just have fun, make podcasts and shoot the shit. What did you do before? before, like, before you started the podcast? I did a lot of things. I did, uh... What can you talk about? I was in the Marine Corps for five years.

Um, I was in corrections for three years. Me too. Yeah, he told me a little bit on the way here, yeah. I mean, we were... The only difference in us was the side of the door we were standing on, I think. No different. It's no different. I always said, man, the only difference, even when I worked there,

the only difference in me holding this key and them was one mistake. It's all it takes is one mistake. But I did that for a long time while I was in college. And then after I got out of college, I got into doing tool and die, like a machinist. And in the meantime, like, I was just making, like, dick jokes on Facebook and, like, just stupid childish jokes. And a big podcaster named Jack Luna,

who has a podcast called Dark Topic. And he's now working with Generation Wise Aaron, friended me. Or I friended him because I, was a big fan of his show and i guess me just fucking around on facebook like caught his eye and at the time he worked for 1159 media and i got a message from him one day and i'm just a machinist and he's like hey we're wanting to do a comedy true crime show and we need a host you said good for you and i want you to host it and i was like i mean it was for me you know that was like

brad pitt reaching out because i was such a big fan of his of his show i was like yeah i'll do it No, pass forward. That was three years ago. And now it's all I do. So how is it, is it all through like, do you do it through Streamyard? Do you guys actually have a studio or it's all remote? Squadcast. Squadcast.

Oh, yeah, we. I don't know. I feel like a lot of things that fall in your lap. They don't. Yeah, things are just happening. I'm like fucking forced gump. Things are just happening to you. And you're like, yeah.

What? You want me to look after some criminal? Sure. I can do that. Next thing I know, I'm on America's Most Wanted. So, okay, so what is the, what's the, what is it? What's the show? True Crime Kent is, I try to find cases where there's already like a comedic aspect

to the crime. That's not always the case. We did, we also cover cases like child murderers. It's like, damn it. There's not a lot of comedy fruit that's right for the pick in there, you know? But I try to find. it. And, but I try to, for the most part, find cases where there's like, there's like a, it's already got like a funny edge to it. Like, for example, I did an episode on a guy named Carl

Tansler who got obsessed with this lady that died of tuberculosis and then he slept with her corpse for 30 years. He stole her body from the graveyard, shoved its vajine, uh, full of papers and made basically a corpse fleshlight out of him and just, like, this corpse for like 30 years and he was just nutting in it. And Colby. He was like, there goes a monetization. And it was wild. But as you can see, that's really funny. So it was just a riot for comedy.

The whole thing was. So, or the Iron Mike Malloy, I did an episode on him. And he was an Irish immigrant that immigrated to New York. And these thugs took out an insurance policy on him and tried to kill him in every way possible. And, like, he just wouldn't die. But he never also caught on that they were trying to kill him. So it was like a Looney Tunes episode. And it's all true stories.

And I just do these, like, deep dives into these cases and just have a good time. It's, like, not politically correct or, but I try, I do take a lot of pride in the research. Right. Yeah. So. As you can tell. Yeah. I think that's obvious.

Oh, man. So why don't you guys do it on YouTube? Well, mainly with my show. for the reason you just said. Oh, yeah, Monty, yeah, that it might be an issue.

I don't like being, I don't like being censored. I don't, I'm super pro, freedom of speech and all that stuff. And, uh, I've even turned down ads,

monetized ads because they want to control how I, how I do the ad. Right. So, uh, I'm super against somebody telling me what I can and can't say. I wish I could be principled like that. Yeah.

I hate it, man. It's like, and that's why I've pretty much not done anything on YouTube so far. There's some of the episodes are on YouTube, but they're just an audio for them. And if they get strapped or taken down and give a shit, like they're not, I don't even know if they're monotized. I don't even know that people know they're on YouTube. I didn't know they were on YouTube. Right. And that's it.

How did you get into podcasting? I was going to get to them. Okay. Thank you. I just feel like I'm talking to me. much. So whereas they approached him to do a show, I approached them about doing a show. So I made a pilot episode. I sent it in and the owner thought it was good enough. So that was that the email? Good enough. Not great. Yeah. So, so I just, I did everything. So I do all my own research,

all my own recording, all my own editing. I actually edit almost all of the other shows now. Yeah. Sorry about that man. So I do all the editing and yeah, it's just all audio right now. I wouldn't even know what the hell I was doing with the video editing. So I do all the easy stuff. He's like the serious guy. His shows are serious. They're not like, more serious and then they're on the more on the comedic spectrum.

Right. What do you, I mean, what topics have you gone over like cases? So with Almost Fiction, I just did one. My newest episode, this release is on about Marvin Gale Gray. he was a guy who got arrested and then while in prison got super into powerlifting. So, I mean, at one point, he was like 30 pounds off the world record for squat and he did it all in jail, eating jail food. So, I mean, this dude was just a monster. Right.

And then just one of those, but every time he got out of jail, he killed someone and went back to jail. And for some reason, even though he killed someone, he got out again. He murdered a lady, got 15 years, did his time, got back out, and then murdered some. someone else and so like Kent I like to do deep dives on the research I'll read multiple books and it's amazing how many times you'll find out just how much conflicting evidence yeah that comes happens a lot and so you'll have one person say oh he did this and killed this person and then I'll read something else that said oh that person just went to the hospital for three days and you're

just like well that's a big difference right and so it's just there's a lot of podcasts I think that kind of read Wikipedia maybe read one or two articles online and then they write an episode and kick it out you know ever you ever interview the guy or um no because some of the guys that i do podcasts on are already deceased right it's like Marvin gil gray um he died of heart failure in prison and so like i just did another episode it was the last guy who died in the electric chair in connecticut um so it's just like some of the people that i do these podcasts on they are already deceased some of them It's hard to get an interview if they're deceased.

Yeah. So, like, I did an episode that took place in Italy in, like, the 30s. So it's just like some things, it's just not really feasible to get an interview with anyone who's even still alive that knows anything about the case. How long have you been doing it? So I've been doing it full time for eight months. Okay. So that's, yeah, full time, eight months. What's your favorite one that you've gone over?

My favorite one I've gone over was, oh, now. I'm on the spot I can't remember her last name. There was this lady named Michelle and she was just psychotic. She pretended to be like this perfect woman in every aspect of her life. And yet behind the scenes, she was like offering people a place to stay. Then she would imprison them, torture them, and kill them. And her kids were there the whole time. And so it's just like, there's just certain things that you read that you're like,

this can't be real. And so it's like, that's part of the reason why my podcast name is almost. fiction because it's like there's some things you read that you're like this can't have happened in real life but it did and so it's just just the craziness that we're surrounded by every day that we don't even know about right how long are the are is this do you break them up in different pieces um it just depends like i've had one episode so i've had one episode that was a three parter and each was almost an hour long so it's three total hours and then i've had other episodes that it's 35 minutes it just depends i mean because i had one

one where this guy, I mean, he only committed one crime and that was it. But it was just insane. He kidnapped a kid and then over the course of months, eight pieces of him and wrote it down in a cookbook. He made a cookbook on how to cook people. And he only, but he only did one person. So it's like, tell me you wouldn't try. If given the opportunity.

I've always been super pro can. civilism and I've said this many times and I'll die on this hill. If I'm ever in a survival situation with any of you, if we all, if this building were to collapse right now, I give all of you permission to eat me if you have my corpse. And I will do the same to you if in the situation. Pass. Yeah, because I've just been looking for a reason to be honest. Did you ever see the movie alive? I love that with the hockey team and the Alps. Yeah. It's a good movie. Yeah. I mean, it's true story. But I never read. the book. But I always remember, you know, they, they, they waited like weeks before they

way longer than I would have. Yeah, I was going to say, like, as soon as I got a rumble, my tummy started rumbling, I'd have been like, I'd have been eyeballing people. Sometimes, if I'm waiting in line at Hardee's and they're taking too long, I start looking at the thighs of the woman in front of me. And they also ate ass first, which I didn't understand because that's just mainly fat. I would have went backstrap or thigh. No, no, you have a lot of, in your actual ash cheek, you have a lot of muscle. yeah I didn't know I mean

it's probably just the people out of the around I was gonna say we'd probably hang out with different people so yeah that was

that was a that was an amazing movie I was what I was thinking about what about that that guy wasn't some guy

or was it two guys that had like three women or four women like in their basement or something do you remember that one

I mean he kept them alive for forever I can't remember the guy's name they were prostitutes he was targeting black prostitutes i believe and then he kept them and then he kept him in the basement in a box actually a little box in the basement do you remember that guy's name and one of them got loose that's how he got caught yeah yeah she yeah was running down the street

like naked yeah fine and people were ignoring her and then finally someone decided to stop and help her out like that i can't remember for the life of me what then i also had an uncle they haven't caught him yet though yeah yeah you have vastly different you can see that we kind of span the spectrum where I'm not as funny so I if you don't have a sense of humor listen to my podcast but if you do listen to his podcast it's a lot like last podcast on the left it's basically a rip off of last podcast on the left let's be honest I haven't yours or yours oh my yeah I don't know any of these podcasts last podcast on the left is like a massive it's probably the it is the it is the one that started, I think, the true crime comedy genre. Okay. And I listen to it. What about, what about my favorite murder? Even my favorite last podcast on the left was doing episodes in probably 2009, something like that.

They are very controversial, though, so they don't get. Last podcast on left is controversial? Just a little bit. What about my favorite murder? I mean, what did, are they still around? They are. Yeah. They were huge.

Like they were. They shot. And then they, I don't even know. I haven't heard of in years I haven't heard anything I think what happens is For a limited time at McDonald's Enjoy the tasty breakfast trio Your choice of chicken or sausage McMuffin

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What about it? On second thought I might not be the right person to tell you Oh, you're not? No, just ask your doctor about Wachovie. Yeah, ask for it by name. Okay, so why did you bring me to the circus? Oh, I'm really into lion tamers.

You know, with the chair and everything. Ask your doctor for Wagovi by name. Visit wagovi.combe.com for savings. Exclusions may apply. And it's probably going to happen to me too and probably him with every crime podcast as people run out of cases that they feel fits, their particular podcast. Thankfully, I'm far from that point yet, and I'm sure he is too, but I see that

with last podcast on the left and a couple others, they're starting to shift towards like cryptids, like, uh, Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot and black holes and stuff, and I think it's because they feel like they've covered everything worth, not, not that every murder is horrible, but you need a certain, there's a point where an episode, where a topic has too much information it's like because i want to include anything i will i will never do like an episode on geoffrey dammer because there's just too much there's like it's too much overwhelming it'd be like a 10-part series you know so many dicks he ate it was like that guy is so many dicks but so this is this is going to be a problem um how long are your episodes they

range from between like an hour, 20, and two and a half hours. But sometimes we do multi-parters. So they'll be like three-parters. But most of them are one-offs. And they're between like an hour and a half, two and a half hours. Right. What's your, do you have a favorite? My favorite, if I, I always tell people, it's like a christening. We have an episode called Corpsewood Manor. And if you can make it through Corpsewood Manor, then you, you, are going to be a listener because it's like I talked about like my first gay experience and I'm not even gay I don't think I'm still trying to figure that shit out I'm 36 I should get on that but um yeah that's going to be confusing yeah I got three kids your wife's going to be

I need to like that I need to work this out because I've got to get on that but um I used to go to gay clubs because my first wife when I was in the Marine Corps it explains the first wife part yeah she's probably a lesbian now it's from the subject but um because anybody's being married to me that's usually what happens but she was a Marine and most of her friends were I was a Marine she was a Marine and all her friends were Marines and a lot of people don't know this but like a large portion of the Marine Corps that is female we don't talk about this a lot are no yeah I would have never put that together yeah I don't think it's surprising anybody I don't Not all of them, of course, but like a large portion, a really large portion.

So I would just go to, like, gay clubs with them and have fun. It was the most fun ever. At the time, I was the most fit I'd ever been in my life. Fitter than this? Oh, this is, like, embarrassing. I look like John Goodman. What do you think? Yeah, I was in good shape, so guys would buy me drinks.

But the thing that they don't tell you about gay clubs is like, and the one that I used to go to all the time, was called Abiza's in Wilmington, North Carolina. And the bathroom in that place was like Mad Max, man. You know that dude playing the guitar that shoots the fucking flames? That's like the bathroom of a gay club. Like him being chased through the fucking... Yeah. There's a guy with a ball gag. There's a dude hanging from the ceiling and rubber.

Like, you don't know what you're going to run it. And it was always my favorite part going to the bathroom because you're like never know what you're going to see. And I'm just a small town Christian boy. Yeah, it sounds like it. it's like it's like going the restroom in the low security prison after after count exactly after lights off it's like I I would go and piss just before take a piss just before count because when they count and they go lights off and they shut the lights off and I think God I and if it two in the morning I had to go to

the bathroom I'd be like I'm going to hold it I'm just because you don't know what you're going to go in you don't know what you're going to walk into I mean I would walk in looking at the floor go straight to the urinal go to the bathroom no matter what noises I heard no matter I turn back around walk out I don't need to wash my hands keep walking see you approach it differently this is me I'm trying to take it all what are y'all doing in there why are there four feet in there well that's what happened actually is I went to the urinal and there were two dudes like I could hear a ball slap a ball sack slapping the back of another ball sack like three foot from where I was pissing and I was looking at the wall

and I'm just hearing this like and they were like really he was really letting them have it. You know those like donuts that that trucker set on because they got hemorrhoids? Yes. This guy definitely had to use one of those the next day because he was getting turned out. And I thought he was in that position. And I think he's already turned out. He was, yeah.

Yeah. And which is, you know, good for it, man. I'm all for it. If that's what you're into. But I was looking at the wall of the urinal and pissing. And this guy's just rearranging this fellow's insides. And I was thinking about getting baptized whenever I was 13 And growing up in a Christian town I was very conservative I was raised conservative

My stepfather's a preacher And it was like If they could just see me now You know I've come a long way Come a long way And then my buddy My buddy who I did the show with

His gay experience was getting molested in a tent While he was camping So we roasted him We roasted him for like 20 minutes For getting molested We just really let him have it And Worse than the tent experience

Yeah Yeah Was roasting him for his trauma Was probably worse Than the trauma itself And you're a good friend He's a great Yeah I'm a good

I'm a pretty good dude I need to figure out the gay thing though But If you can get through that And the reason we talk about that is because in the beginning of the episode is because the crime involved to gay dudes that were just living their lives, not bothering anybody in this like backwoodstown in Arkansas in the woods and fucking just living their lives. And they got brutally murdered by these like rednecks. So it's kind of, you know, it was a horrible crime. And but they lived in a castle.

So that was the funny part. but not like a typical castle was like if you ordered a castle I wish it was like a shitty castle because they're gay and they built the castle themselves and they're great an interior decoration

but like not not in Masonry work structural yeah like not they're not brick layers the curtains were fucking great though they have beautiful curtains but uh and they just got murdered by these by these inbred rednecks

and it was a horrible story but I would say so corpsewood man If you're going to try TrueCom Kent, Corpsewood Manor. That's worth that. So I have a prison story. The restrooms, when you walk into the restroom in a low security prison, low security prisons don't have, typically don't have like a door on the cell, right? Yeah.

So, and so you don't have a bathroom in your cell. It's a group bathroom, right? They're called dorm. It's a big dorm and you have like a bathroom. It'd be like a public bathroom. Well, when you walk in, of course. typically you walk in and then there's a whole bunch of sinks and then you walk a little bit further in and there's urinals and um you know the whatever you call them the toilets with the stalls

thank you but to the right there's all the shower stalls so i remember so one time i'm in there taking a shower so i'm taking a shower and i hear these guys talking and there's two gay guys yeah and the one gay guy goes i'm like i'll squeeze it And I'm like, and I'm washing it. And I thought, oh, Christ. And I'm trying, I'm like, I need to get out of here. I'm doing my hand. I'm just, you know, we're trying to, now I'm like, I say, squeeze this.

There's none in there. I'm telling you, it's in there. We'll squeeze it. I'm telling you some more. And then they're going back and forth arguing. And finally I went, and then I hear, well, did you take it? And I went, I don't understand what the car. I think I'm missing something here.

Yeah, because I'm trying to figure out like the scenario. So I go. And he's saying, rub it on, or rub it on me, rub it on me, you know. And I'm like, what? Okay, now I have to look. So I turn and I go to the shower stall and, you know, I'm like five foot six. So I don't, I'm not, I walk over and I'm over the shower stall. And the one gay guy is in the shower stall.

And the other guy is in the shower stall. And he's got a bottle of nair. And he's nearing his back. The other guy's back. And I was like, and I like, I like look over and I'm like, oh, nears. That makes sense. And they're like, Matt. What do you want, cock?

I was like, nah, you had a whole thing in my head. Yeah, all right. Like anybody were. Carry on. Shake it. You have to shake it. So I finished off and left. Where'd you grow up?

In Tampa, Florida. So you're not like far, because this place is also. No, I'm one where, what hour and a half? Yeah. So like, but you also, I mean, I imagine Florida is also pretty conservative, right? Yeah. So, like, I was raised on a tobacco farm. Like, we had cattle and I worked in hay, you know.

Did you know where Okachobi is? Okachobi? You know or Lake Okeechobee? I don't. You know, so, okay, so you were raised in, I mean, you were educated in the South. I was in the South. Okay. Yeah.

So, Florida, there's, you know, that big dot, that big lake in Florida? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Lake Okeechobee. So there's Okeechobee, County. and you know Lake Okeechobe in the city of Okachovia and that's where Jess was raised and it's mostly cow passers and dairy farms and what else was there? That's pretty much out. Yeah.

It's just farmland. Yeah. Yeah. Rednecks and pick up trucks. So you know what I'm talking about. So like being in that situation or so you were like a more urban city. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I saw a black person until I was like 26. Oh, she did. She did her story the other day. And like the second episode, she talks about how she moved to Gainesville and went to public school. And she's like, like, that was the first time I'd ever seen a black person ever. And you're trying to have to stare and you're not being racist. You're just interested. It's like, he wanted to go up and be like, yeah, you want to touch them. It's interesting. I grew up in Arizona in the middle of cattle ranching. And so it was just everybody was big belt buckles and boots all the time. And we had two brothers in our school that were half black and that was it. That was just about it for a whole school.

And they were probably adopted. They were half black half in Navajo. So I see that one every day. They must have been hell of a fighter. Oh, yeah. I don't think of me. Well, the one, one kid was a cannonball. I did not want to get in a fight with him at all.

He just roll you over and you just get up all broken and bloody and go on your, on your way. In your experience in prison, who is the race that, like, fight wise? Who would win the race? Who would win the race war? I'm trying to be diplomatic here. You're going to get, like, the whole, I mean, I've already, I already realized this never getting monetized. Now I'm just hoping we can save the channel. Can we just keep the channel going?

How do I say it? Who would? It depends. I'm sure it depends on the numbers. If all the races met in a field outside of Wyoming, all the races. Who, and it was just fist of cuffs. Because you've got, you've seen the front lines of this.

You know how, how it happens. Who wins, who walks away? Who runs the world? that is a great question that's a great question that's a great question i don't feel like i don't feel like i don't feel like i'm i'm equipped to first of all i mean like in prison like it's it's in the low it's probably 60 to 70 percent black so they just have the numbers yeah you know um in the medium security prison it's probably 80% black and then maybe 17% Mexican and there's maybe two or three percent white guys or others right so you know the whole compound of let's say 16 to

1,800 guys there's 20 maybe 30 white guys so you know you're just done yeah so but in the low there's more whites but the whites that are there are more educated yeah so you know there These are not, like, I know you, I know you look at me and you think tough guy. Yeah. Cool guy, tough guy. He can handle himself. Exactly what I thought. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm actually soft as cotton. Okay. Like, you know, it's, it wouldn't, like, genuinely, I'm not sure if I could take her. I, I outweigh her by 50 pounds. And she's insisting. Yeah, but I can, but I can, but I don't know. She has like that female UFC fighter bill.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She, oh, let's just the shoulders. Yeah. They're, it's ridiculous. Got like that Ronda Rousey kind of figure.

Oh, listen, listen, she was a hog hunting tour guide for seven years. Oh, that makes perfect sense. Okay. Was in the military? Right. So you see the whole- You were in the military too? I did hawk hunting myself, but it was in Wilmington, you know what I'm saying?

What branch were you in? Really? Where were you stationed? Okay. that's awesome when did you get out my brother was well i came from an army family and i was i would say my brother my dad would have probably disowned me but he he died before that happened so thank god uh yeah he my brother was at fort poke in louisiana i believe so yeah i don't know back to the race war um i thought you

we're going to say Samoans. So. Actually, they're, actually, that's funny because there were a couple of Samoan guys. There was a Samoan,

I went to a drug program and there was a Samoan guy that attacked, in the middle of like our, we had like a morning meeting. In the middle of the morning meeting, he attacked another guy. Like all the, all the guards are there.

Like everybody's there. He just attacked him. And he'd already been to trial twice in Hawaii. He was like a crypt or a blood. He'd been to trial twice for murder in Hawaii and beat two charges. Yeah. I remember being like...

They're not human. I mean that in the best... I don't mean that like... They're not human. They look like the rock. I don't mean that in the way that it sounds whenever somebody like me says that. They ain't human. I mean that like, they're not human.

They're like superhuman. Yeah. He was a big, muscular, tough guy. Yeah. They're badasses. Yeah. I always picture like Samoans. If you made a...

It's like the rock. If you made a race war fighting game for like Xbox. Isn't the rock Samoan? Is it he? He is. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like in the video game, they would be like three times.

You would have to spend the money in the video game for one Samoan. Like you would have, you would have, they would cost one Samoan would cost as much as like six watts. Right. And you would probably get three blacks for one Samoan. So you know how sometimes like we get, we get it, we get, we get, we get, it's demonetized and then you could ask for a review. This is one of those times where it's like you just take it. like you definitely don't want to like you get the review you review it and they're like oh yeah we did make a mistake i thought i was giving compliments i thought the whole the whole channel

has to come down yeah he has to deal with this shit all the time um i don't even know what to say i'm sorry man i don't know if this was your podcast what else would you ask if my this is my podcast we'd be talking about It gets worse. So you have a, it's a niche market for you. Yeah, but they're like passionate. But we have, they are super, aren't the, we had a small army show up to the convention just for the 1159 media. So it is very niche, but what other crime type conventions are there other than crime?

This is it that I know of. Well, you said the other one was. Well, Horror Hound is more like horror, like horror movies and horror. I have the same problem with the word raw roll. R-U-R-A-L? I always feel like you got to go R-R-R-R-A-L. So, okay, so this is it. CrimeCon's it.

This is a lot of murders. It's all murders. CrimeCon is also super corporate, and we don't fit in to the... Stop it. I'm not going to. I was wearing a Waffle House slide yesterday. Next to a guy in a suit. So probably be our last.

The more you listen to him, the more you realize why they brought me in. You sure got birdie lips. Yeah. And I've made moves on him on multiple occasions. I actually don't think I'm supposed to be within 500 feet of him right now. I disabled that restraining order just for time time. It doesn't go into fact to like next Sunday.

He does have to edit everything. and I always feel like he has to make the call on what that's not going in or that isn't going in. Usually that's not, but we just have fun, man. It's a lot of fun. And it's fun for me because three years ago, I was just a blue collar dude in a machine shop. I had already, like, subscribed to the idea of I'm going to be here for 30 years and then I'm going to die of some form of cancer. Right. I understand.

And I just hope that I'm. make it better for my girl my kids and i was okay with and that's fine if you're living that life yeah yeah i respect that no that's that's what keeps america going i mean that's why i was okay with it because that's fine but i wasn't looking for any of this and jack luna just pecked me out of the and gave me a microphone and did you did you build a sound studio in your house yeah cool yeah they actually sent me all the gear uh the company 1159 did and i ended up taking a bathroom out of my basement and turning it, converting it to a recording booth and the rest is history.

Cool. It's been a wild ride. Super thankful. And if it, honestly, if it ended tomorrow, I would be okay with that. That's why I'm so, I think that's why I am the way I am, honestly. Because it's like, if somebody's like, we're going to, if somebody tried to cancel me, it's fucking cancel me, I don't give a shit. I'll go back to a machine shop and be happy about it.

You know what I mean? like you're not going to you're not going to hurt me so I'm happy either way with or without this and then for me it was just something that I was looking to do on the side just just to get you know I've always wanted to create and so I was like this would be something fun I wasn't ever thinking it's going to be my full-time job right like I worked for a municipality I was doing water treatment and wastewater treatment so I was being cross-trained at the town facilities where I lived and it just I just sent it in because it was something I was doing anyways I was just writing things on the side writing stories on the side and I sent it in

and next thing I know I'm doing it full time so this was never I never thought this would be a full-time gig for me but it's just what it kind of turned into yeah that's yeah I understand that's I was just laying in in a in a bunk bed in prison how long were you in 13 13 years right I did Yeah, 13 years. It's fucking crazy. How old were you when you went in? First 10 years is the hardest.

The last three, though. I hated leaving, honestly. I know. I did. I was like, it's not enough time. I was in the middle of the story, and I was like, it's not enough time. How old were you when you went in? 36, 37. 37?

Yeah, yeah, I was about, it was 37, I think. How old are you now? I'm 54. Jesus Christ, I hope I look like that at 54 years old. How old are you now? 36. I look like that. like, shit, you think I didn't know?

It's going to start now. My tits are bigger than my wife's. It wasn't always like this. She didn't sign up for this. I feel bad for her. Yeah. But yeah, it was the same thing. Like, I got out.

I didn't even know how I was going to make a little. Like I got out, what, four years ago? Four years ago? Yeah. Four years ago. And I thought, I didn't know how I was going to make a living. I remember thinking just before I was laying in my cot thinking, And listen, bro, like, you're going to work at McDonald's.

You're going to live in someone's spare room. You're going to be happy. You're going to be humble. You're going to be appreciative. You're not going to commit any crimes. You're just going to live your life out. And if that's the best you got, then that's the best you fucking got. Like, I told myself, I, in an, you didn't want to get your hopes up.

Right, right. Oh, I also thought to myself, you're going to give it a year and you're going to commit fraud. You know, if things don't work, work out for you. There was a battle. But at least you had that year. There was a battle. Yeah. A battle going on.

But yeah. And then about, what, two and two and a half, about two and a half years ago. Yeah, I started doing TikTok, started doing YouTube for about six months and then met Colby. And then, you know, we kind of teamed up and started doing this podcast. That's fucking awesome, man. But it didn't take off. Like, you know, yours, it sounds like yours kind of took off right away. Like it took, it's really in the last six months, six, seven months that it's really started like it's picking up.

Well, no, like paying all of our bills. Like now it's to the point where it's like, this is all I do. That's amazing. Which is, it is amazing because, like, just shoot my mouth off. It's all the only thing I've ever been good at. What did you do after, out of prison? Like, between in that period where this wasn't covering the. I mean, I painted and I had written a bunch of true crime books.

So I'd written about six true crime books while I was incarcerated and a bunch of stories. And so it took several months for me to edit them and put them on Amazon. on, but I also started doing podcasts that were, and when I would tell my story, it'd get, you know, a million, two million views. Yeah. And so that was selling books. So I'm getting 1,500 a month off of the books. And I'm working, I'm doing paintings, like I would sell paintings because I, I can paint.

So I would sell paintings and I was doing some speaking engagements. And then so that was kind of, my bills were nothing. You know, I'm living in someone's spare room. So just as that kind of, I started the podcast and it's kind of slowly transitioned out of that into just this. And now it's obviously I get paintings. I have a Patreon. And, you know, and this is now paying, you know, for everything. So that's awesome.

It was only one. When you say paintings, like what kind of stuff, would you paint like fruit? What are you paying? If I had to, I would. No, I mean, I paint, you know, I paint painting. I paint, yeah, I want to see some of your paintings. Yeah, let's go ahead. I love that phone case, by the way.

Let's go ahead. I got free. This is the first time that I've actually asked somebody to see their art and enjoyed the art. You know what I mean? Usually, yeah, they show it to and you're like, looking at pictures of their kids. I like that. That's kind of. Yeah.

Yeah. I just got the, like, look at Colby's like, we might as well wrap this up. This is an hour of demonetism. how was it I did do I painted some pictures of this after this conversation it's such a horrible thing to say it was because I have I have painted some pictures of people's kids but they sent me the photos they were fully clothed okay yeah yeah I told him I was like trying to gauge on the way over here like what I can no well listen Colby's a square he's especially compared to all of us well he handled it well he handled it well he

brought up Chris Hansen. Yeah. And I said, and I straight face just to see how he would react. I said, yeah, I've actually met Chris Hansen, but it was at 3 a.m. in a random neighborhood. And he wasn't happy to see me. And then I like, and I did it. Straight face to see.

And he started laughing. I was like, all right, we're going to be good. We're going to be. This is going to be fine. Yeah. We had, we had the guy with the Chris Hanson. Is that what you were talking about, that guy? Yeah.

I love those. And you can imagine I was in prison. And at the low security prison, like 40% of the inmates have like some kind of some kind of a sex crime. Yeah. So you, so you, so I've met,

I've met guys that have been on, the guys that like showed up with like a harp. You know, I'm saying like the kid showed up with like a harp and, you know, and a bottle of K.Y and a box full of condoms. And he was just there to talk about it. I didn't know she was 12.

Yeah. Like, you're like, I always try to make life of living hell for those guys and I was a corrections officer, but in like the most legal way possible. Like, I never did anything illegal,

but I wasn't going to get you. Yeah. like that extra thing of soap you know what i mean like i did it all within what is legal but i wasn't going to do anything extra for those guys and it also made me smile when they got their asses handed to them listen prison is it's so packed with them now that where it used to be you know like they they basically had to stay in their cell all the time they couldn't walk out they don't look at anybody there's so yeah there's so many of them now oh yeah they're starting oh they're outnumbering yeah there's 40 percent and and here's the thing it's not

just like that's hit that the guy got locked up for that alone. Do you think that's because of the internet? Um, you think? Yeah. So it's not just that, but there will also be guys that have been to prison before. Yeah. And then they've got charges. So they don't have to be there on that charge, but on their jacket, they've got a statutory rape or they've got a whatever in their jacket. So now they've got a problem. Now how do people, I've always wondered this. How do you guys find out what so and so's charges are? Like how does the, most of them have been in the newspaper or you can go on yeah you can go on you can go on pay have somebody on the outside go on pacer first of all it doesn't let's tell you what happened what would happen

all the time some guy would come in and here's what they always say they never say they say one or two things my lawyer said um some guys will go up to him and say hey bro what are you here for and they go my lawyer said not to talk about my charges he's a chow yeah um or they you walk in they walk in and they're like, oh, I'm here for fraud. And then so what would happen is some guy, some white guy would come to me. Kenny King, the name was Kenny. Kenny did this notorious. He'd go, oh, okay, hold on a second. He'd come in, Cox, come here.

I go, yeah, what's up? He goes, there's a new guy here says he's here for fraud. Ah, Kenny, I don't want to talk to the guy. Come on now. Come on. They had you to fish out the. I'd walk over. I'd go, hey, man, you're here for fraud.

Can he be sitting there? Yeah. And what's you here for? He go, I have the one that was hilarious because the guy goes, he said, oh, I'm here for credit card fraud. And I went, credit card fraud. Is that, they charge you with credit card fraud? Yeah. I go, was that to charge?

Yeah. There's no credit card fraud. It's access device fraud. It's counterfeiting. It's identity theft. It's wire fraud. There's no credit card fraud. Not in the federal system, you know?

So, and I, I go, oh, okay. And I, but he may be wrong. Like, in his mind, I've heard mortgage fraud guys say, oh, I'm here for. mortgage fraud. They charge it with mortgage fraud? Yeah, there is no mortgage fraud charge. It's financial institution fraud. It's wire fraud. It's money laundering. It's bank fraud. There's no mortgage fraud, you know. So I don't, you know, so I, so I like, you're like the Pito drug dog. Right. So this one kid goes, so he's sitting there and he's like, yeah, credit card. I said, well, what were you doing? Well, I was taking money out of people's credit cards. I said, well, how?

And he's like, what do you mean? I go, I mean, like, did you work at a bank? Like, did you work at a retailer, were you able to get access to the cards and charge them? Like, how are you pulling money out of their cards? And he's like, oh, well, it, it's not a learning experience. And I went, okay, I look at Kenny, I go, he's a show. And kidding, he's oh, and you walk off. Like, that's it. He's, and of course he was. It'll, you later come out, later comes out, you know, that he was looking at pictures online, you know, and they came in, the FBI comes. He ends up buying some stuff from an FBI run website because the FBI is probably populating. 80% of the stuff out there to get these guys.

Yeah. And they come in, you know, a couple weeks later, they indict him, they come in, they grab his computer, it's it, it's over. And what's the scariest thing about it was, his family ran like a mortuary. So God knows what was going on there. Oh, Jesus. So, and he got, I think he got like three or four years. I think his name was Ian.

It's always a fucking Ian. So, yeah. But that happened all the time, guys. And they always say fraud. They never come in and say, something like, you know, they don't think they can pull off like drug dealer. They don't think they can pull that off. Because I know there's enough in there to quickly have them. Right, right. You can't fake it. Right. So, so they think, oh, I can fake fraud. No, you can't. Like,

you're just as hard. Like, you're going to better tell me how you committed this fraud. Like, how is it? They can't come up with it. People always think, oh, I can commit fraud. Really, how? What are you going to do? I would steal people's identity. How are you going to do that? How is that easy? Especially in 2023. So it is hard. This is how you did it in 1850. My name is Randy now. Right.

So in Coleman, there's one unit just dedicated to the military. Really? Yeah. Like people that committed crimes while in active duty? No, no, no, no, guys that have military service. So you've got a DD-214, you served your country, you got out, you robbed the bank. Well, we've got a special unit, you get special privileges because you were in the military. I don't know if I support that.

no why some guy did 20 years or 10 years or 5 got a DD 214 listen special privileges don't mean much it's still prison you know what I'm saying it's not like um but here's the thing about the problem with that unit is is that I would say Pete actually Pete my buddy Pete sorry I have a buddy in prison my buddy Pete was the um the counselor's clerk and And I don't know what the reason is, and I'm not saying anything against the military, but it was packed with shows. Yeah. Packed with them.

So you've got, so at one point, out of 160 guys, and it didn't have as many, like, other units have 180, 150 of the Air Force. Listen. There were 30, there was like 30 guys that didn't have Cho charges. Yeah. So out of a hundred fucking 60, there's 130. already had show charges. Wow.

What kind of special privileges are you talking? Like they might have like a library in there, in there, you know, just like a small room with a library or they would have an area where they could watch movies or it was, it was quieter. It was much cleaner, much more disciplined. Yeah. A lot of those guys would be older. And so it was a, listen, I would have moved in that unit.

It was quieter. It was cleaner. Everybody was respectful. And they're all shows. I mean, you put me. around 130 shows like I'm a fucking gangster yeah I'm a badass in front of a fucking bunch of because they know they're weak they know they're terrified they're terrified they're some it's you'd be you would think that the most of them would be kind of like humble and meek

or you think all of them would be meek and ashamed yeah there's a group that will argue with you about it that this is that oh yeah that like no well it's been going around for forever if it wasn't for the the government for these laws it's it's draconian it's bullshit like Oh, if you're in Mexico, you can marry a 13-year-old. I don't see what the problem is. It's like, okay, well, you're not in Mexico. And it's not, well, in Greek, in the Greek, you know, back in the, back in the Roman times or whatever, you know, in 400 AD was, it was normal to, you know, we didn't in 40080, you know, you could. We also thought the earth was flat.

Right. And you could own slaves, you know, there's lots of things that were acceptable back then. Yeah. But, yeah. So, so they would, they'll, they'll argue to a degree, but they're still just, they're still just not tough people. You know, they pray on children. It takes a, I think, a special kind of person to... You would get every once in a while, you'd get some guy who'd been in the military,

who'd been through the, been a Marine, and he would knock, and some guy would be giving him a hard time, oh, hey, fuck you, you fucking Joe, hey, man, fuck you. But what, what, what, and just knock him out. The dude would drop you, be like, damn, you just got dropped by a Cho. Yeah. Like, you might as well check it. How many notches does that drop your status, like, immediately? It's bad.

So say like that happened to, like, a... a block. I just worked in a jail, so I don't know, like, there's a lot of differences in a jail and a prison, but like, say a block, what do they call them, the leaders, the, oh, yeah, the shot caller. A shot caller. Say that happened to a shot collar. He just got knocked out of a show. Oh, yeah, he's probably out of that. He's probably, he probably has to check in and just wait until they ship them. That quickly. It would be bad. And this is a low, too, so you don't really have that. You have, it's a very loose kind of thing. Yeah. These are guys that fight over stupid stuff. Yeah, ramen noodles. Yeah.

Exactly. I get it. They will. We've had that conversation many times. Guys will get into fights over stuff that you're like, the guy borrowed two magazines from you and then lent them out to a buddy of his and now nobody knows where they are. And you got into a fight with the guy. Physical altercation. But you never like, you were, you seem like the kind of guy that's smart enough to be like, that's not fucking worth it. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, I don't lend anything out. Yeah. Like, I don't lend it out. And if I do, I don't ask for it. back. I don't run up bills. I'm respectful to everybody. Yeah. I don't gamble. I don't talk about people. Like, there's certain things that will get you in trouble. Because in prison, if you get

stabbed, you probably had it coming. Yeah. There's a damn good chance. You did something. Yeah. There's a story there. Right, right. Like, you ran up a debt. And then you decided not to pay it. The guy gave you ample opportunities. Let's you said, hey, look, make some payments. So get your family to do this. And you basically just told home, go fuck yourself. You ain't going to do nothing. okay now I got to do something yeah so it's like either I have to try and get moved or I have to hurt you somehow yeah like I don't want to be in that position so somebody comes to say hey Cox can I borrow this can I get no bro well I don't lend stuff out oh man it's like that it's like that it is like yeah I'm sorry you know I wish I could but and then what's the problem dude I said I'm gonna be honest

with you like if I gave it to you and you didn't give back to me not that I think you would but if you if I did and you didn't give it back to me what am I going to do and now I'm just some punk so I don't fucking lend anything out. I don't borrow money. Save you and them. Right. And they would, you know, people, if you're just honest, they're like, yeah, that's cool, bro. I get it.

And they'll walk off. Yeah. Go talk to Brandon. Brandon will lend his shit out. Then you guys can fight about it next week. He'll beat the hell out of you if you don't give it back. I'm not going to do that. How often did you see one thing that I saw as a corrections officer, even in jail, was like,

we get a new kid in there, D.B. 18, 19 years old. Come from like kind of a wealthy background, right? And he'd get, like, first time they get commissary, I'd be handing commissary out. And it'd be like, say, Brandon Smith. And he'd have a commissary bag like this big, just stack to the gill. And all these other guys that have been in here for two or three years, whatever. And I'm handing them one bag of Fritos. And you see this kid take this giant bag.

And you're like, I'm watching him go away. And I'm thinking, you're not going to eat any of that. Yeah. They're going to rape you. Like the second I shut this door, you're done for, dude. Yeah. That's a bad. It's a mistake.

They should probably stagger that. fucking purchase um that was one of the first things like i noticed like as an as a corrections officers like i think if i was in i just wouldn't order anything on commissary i wouldn't have anything i would try to intentionally not have anything so jails are filled with like guys that you know burglarize a place steal a car get into a fight right they're low level kind of criminals right yeah so you know every once while you might get some guy who stole 300 000 but they're that's rare yeah most of these guys are You know, they're domestic violence, their fist fights, their thefts, they're state crimes.

Yeah. So those are more violent areas. Like I was never in one of those jails. Like even if I was in a jail, it was the U.S. Marshal's holdover. So I'm with federal inmates. Not that, not that those things don't happen, but those guys are in custody waiting to be processed for really complicated, large cases. Big deals. Yeah.

Yeah. So they're in there, and they're not really pressuring people to give up their stuff and they're not fight because that'll come back on you. Yeah. You know, this is, it's not a mill. It's the feds. The mill, like that guy that's been in and out of jail, like if he gets into a fight in the jail, they don't even bring it up at sentencing. Here, you get into it. Your Honor, he did this.

He did this. He pled guilty. And guess what? When he was in jail, he was robbing guys and beating him up to steal their stuff. And the judge would be like, oh, hell no. And you got the low end of the guidelines? You were going to get 120 months? I'm throwing on three years and they know that like guys behave in there their lawyers tell

them like don't talk to anybody else don't tell them this don't this do not get in any trouble in here and most of these guys have somebody to put money on their books yeah you know they're not broke they weren't raising the projects and they're struggling they had money yeah that's part of the problem so you know and they have their still have family that will kind of help support them and the other guys are everybody's getting you know everybody's getting commission getting money so So when the commissary thing rolls around, like, almost everybody's got commissary. Especially, you just got arrested.

Your wife's still around. You know, your kids still come to see you. Yeah. Your friends are still hoping you'll get out because they still remember what a baller you were. You're not broke yet. And so those things don't typically happen. Now, when you go, and then when you go to prison, you know, once again, it's a federal prison. And they typically, they have money.

they have hustles, they have jobs. You know, I've heard of people, guys getting pressured to pay like extortion and stuff like that. When I was in, that never happened to me, when I was in the medium where you're really in a vulnerable spot, right? Because I'm a little white guy. I'm not, there's, there's not enough white guys to, to watch each other's backs. Yeah.

So one. Six white guys equals two Somo. and the video in that we're making about the race war. So it never happened there. But when I went to, when I went to the low, you know, and you're in a low, now we're in a low security. Yeah. So, you know, these guys are really stabbing each other and causing each other and fights

and everything in the medium. And now I'm at the low. I was at the low, maybe, whatever, sick. I don't even remember how long, six months, three months maybe. And I remember I was in my cell. I'm sitting there. reading a book and you know and this black guy walks in he's tall he's like six four six five he's tall uh and he walks in i remember he got he got closer than he should have gotten and i i'm sitting

and i look up at him i go what's up and he's like and he goes listen man this how this is going to work and i go okay and my sely is is sitting over here too right he's a mexican guy a big guy in good shape like i'm not really not worried i'm worried it's uncomfortable like something's like this isn't good whatever it is good but i'm i'm not going to get my ass beat somebody you know there's too many people around this you know and i'm i'm very well liked it's not going to happen so and also you just don't like it when somebody i don't know how somebody don't open a conversation with this is how it's going to happen that's a bad that's even yeah even out here yeah so um and i'm sitting there and he goes listen bro this is going how this is going to work he goes

he said, you're going to get me, I forget exactly what he said. I probably said that before, I might get it wrong, but he's like, you're going to get me $50 in commissary every single month. You understand me? He said, and nobody's going to bother you. I went, yeah? He goes, yeah. I said, all right, I said, you got a list?

And he goes, I ain't playing, man. And I said, I'm, bro, I'm not playing any, but what am I going to get you? $50 in commissary, do you want all soda? Yeah. I said, give me a list, bro. and he goes I mean I I ain't joking I said I'm not I said I hear what you're saying

you have to know what he wants I said I need to know what you want give me the list and I'll get the commissary for you and he went all right man I said do me a favor I said make sure you put your put your cell number on it so I know where to bring I don't know where you where you're at and he goes why I said to be honest with you I said because when I take the list and I go to the council office and I walk him back to your cell. I want to know what cell to bring him to,

so we can discuss how you're trying to extort me for $50 in commissary. And he goes, oh, it's like that. Like that? You're just going to fuck it. You snitch on me? That's what you're going to do? I said, bro, if I didn't pay extortion in the fucking medium, do you think I'm coming to a love filled with a bunch of chosen snitches? I said, to fucking pay. I said, I'm not paying and you're not doing nothing. I said, get the fuck. Are you serious? I said, yeah, I'm going to fucking go tell on you.

I'm going to fucking tell on everybody. I'm going to snitch you out. At that point, also, you're probably 40 years old. It's like, I don't, I've been, I've been locked up for three fucking years. Like the camp I was at, first of all, the whole system is filled with fucking in the federal system, it is absolutely designed to cooperate against other inmates and cooperate against your co-defendant. So one, you got 40, 50% are chose.

The other people that are there are at a low. If the average, if 95% of inmates cooperate and you've got out of 180 guys that are here, 60 or sex offenders, which maybe they probably didn't cooperate because they get nothing for it. So 60% are and you take 90% or 95% of 60, that means that in this unit, there's three guys that didn't cooperate. Now, granted, 95% are, they're all 100% are lying about it, but there's 3%. And we know who those are because it's that guy, he went to trial, that guy went to trial, and that guy went to trial so they didn't cooperate, which means everybody's sitting here cooperated. So everybody here snitching on everybody, and I know you don't want to go anywhere because you're

at a low. I'm like, but, you know, whatever, give me the list. And he's just like, all right, that's how it's going to be. You're going to find out. I said, all right, I'll find out. And he walks off. Let me ask you this. Realistically, realistically, even if you never came back, even if you had gotten him the stuff and you did, would he have actually, here's Mike, would he have actually put forth the efforts to provide you the protection? The protection that he claims. The protection that I didn't need. That's just him. It's basically saying, I'm not going to kick your ass. Right, right. Because there's no. Because he's not going to stop anybody else from, yeah. No, he's not going to do anything. And nobody's doing anything. It's like, if you'd come.

up to be the first couple of days he would have been the same same he would have got the same response yeah like you at the medium he might have that might have it wouldn't have worked on me because i don't have anything i don't have the ability to pay you fifty dollars i'll bring you right now to my commissary account and i'll show you that right now i don't receive money on my books nobody gives me any money nobody sends me money like for the first three years i was locked up my mother sent me 50 dollars here maybe $50 there because I immediately got a job teaching GED and teaching the real estate class and the real estate class guys would show up and let's say 40 people show up 30 people show up 15 or 20 of them don't want to be there they want a certificate so they can tell their counselor look

I got a certificate yeah so what I would do is the first thing I say listen if you don't want to be here you can leave find me before class next time come early find me on the compound give me your information, get me, you know, whatever, two bags of coffee, three bags of creamer, and bring that to me, I'll make sure you get a certificate. I'll fill out all your paperwork for you. I'll give you the certificate. You can leave. You know, you're going back to sell drugs. You don't want to fucking sit in this class for the next three months. And so, listen, half the class would leave. And then, you know, and now I just have to deal with people that want to be here. And then I got tons of commissary. Or I'd some guy would come and I'd say, hey, man, listen, just give me a six

pack of soda. And I really just ate in the, you know, I didn't, I didn't need anything. So I was, so I was never in a person, you can't shake me down. I got nothing. Yeah. I think that's the best way to stay. I'm never in a prison, but that's how I always figured. Well, by the time I got to the, to the low, now I'm getting money on my books, because now I'm writing people's books. I'm getting book deals. I'm getting money in. I option somebody's, somebody's life rights. They're sending me money. You got a book deal in prison? I got two book deals in prison. No shit. I got to got some guys in Rolling Stone Magazine, optioned in the film rights to one of the guy's stories, got a book deal off that guy, got another book deal for another guy. After that one, now people

are lining up to talk to me. So I got another book deal after that. Then I just started writing books because by that time I was realizing I was going to be getting out of prison pretty soon. So I just started writing stories. And then when I got out, I just published the books that didn't have because I probably wrote, I wrote eight books. But I had six. that I was able to publish myself. The other ones are actually with publishers. So I... And listen, what, how would I fucking racket that is?

Like, you get a check for like $3,500 and you don't see another check for years. And now the checks I get... So now nobody buys that book anymore. I get a check every six months for like $115. You know, so... But the other books sell, and, you know, that's... You know, that's a car payment. You should have got a booth at Crowncon.

I should have, but my handlers, my handlers waited too long. Gangbusters. Yeah, yeah, I got... connection for us? Yeah, we don't even know. They don't like us very much. Well, we're not going to mention your name. We just need the phone number.

We don't, we don't, we don't mix it. They don't, but I mean, they would have, there was, there was, there's an author beside our booth. Yeah. Oh, well, what I should, what I should have done was done the, like I, I get paid for, I get paid to go to, what, banking conventions, mortgage conventions, mortgage conventions, cybercrime conventions and to tell my story. So I, I should have, could have been a speaker.

Like, I probably, if we put in. And I can see you doing that. You know? Yeah. And I got like a 45 minute version of my story, an hour version, two hour version, you know. A 24 hour version 24 hour video. Yeah. It's told over six months. That's awesome, man.

Yeah. So, you know, we'll see. But yeah, so the people paying, I'm sure some people, people definitely do. Some guys get in there. They're just terrified. They're scared to death. Yeah. And I kind of just come to the conclusion, you're just going to get your ass beat a lot. You've got a slick mouth, expect to get your ass beat.

once while eventually they'll leave you alone did you get in trouble a lot growing up like were you a good student and athlete and everything no it was a horrible student I was a horrible athlete I have a learning disability you know so you got you were a troublemaker from the I wasn't a troublemaker I just I went to schools for kids that had learning disabilities I had a learning disability but I wasn't a great athlete like I'm five foot six like how good are you going to be um you know I played soccer a little bit huh Mugsy Bowles I don't know who that is. I think he's like 5'4.

He plays in the NBA. He's the shortest NBA. Well, that wasn't me. So, yeah. So, no, no, I didn't get in trouble until I was like 30 years old. Not even like a knot, like a DUI. No, I don't drink. Really?

I don't drink. I don't smoke cigarettes. Never dealt with drugs. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. What year did you get in trouble for your? Well, the first time I got in trouble was like 2001. And then I was on probation and I ran a scam.

I stole like $11.5 million during that scam. And then the FBI showed up and I went on the run for three years. And I stole another like $3.5 million. I was on the run for three years. And I got arrested and then I went to prison. So I had like a, so it was late, late 2006 when I got arrested by the Secret Service. So really it was like this was like November of 2006. So it was almost 2007.

sentenced in 2007, and then I got out in 2019, I got out of prison. You still on probation? Yeah. Damn, that's bananas. When you say you were on the run for it, where did you go while you were on the run? I went to, like, when I went on the run, I, like, I had no money. I had like 80,000, right? But you can't live on 80,000.

So I went to Atlanta and I stole like $400,000. And then I went to South Carolina to. Columbus and I got 1.7, 1.3 million, but I only got like 700,000 out of the bank. And then I went to and then I went to Nashville. Swung through Livingston, picked up 2.6 million. It went to Nashville and stole like, like, like it's a granola bar at a gas station. Like three million. Like three million in Nashville. And then I was there. So I was for like three years. So yeah, but I mean, I went everywhere. Like I went while I was on the run on Fals past, False passports.

I've been to Mexico, Jamaica, Bermuda, Italy, Croatia, Greece. Is that it? Might be somewhere else. Where'd they pick you up at? Nashville, Tennessee. Oh, damn, that's the worst. I love Nashville. Nashville was great.

I guess because I went there so much growing up because it's so close to where I live. So I'd like to, if I was going to get arrested. You wanted to be getting off of the, getting off of my G6 in, uh, in Italy. Actually, I guess if I, I, I'm going to go to the office. If I was going to get arrested, I would want it to be a place that I hated. Probably like Portland. I'd be all right. I was getting picked up in Portland.

It's like, at least I'm not in Portland. I have to go to fly anywhere. To Portland? How many lip rings do you see? A billion. in all sorts of different lips, if you know what I'd say. Yeah.

This is a lot of fun. I'm enjoying this. I've never done anything professionally before. You still haven't. I feel like, this feels ironically a lot like when R. Kelly got in trouble, though, and he was talking to Barbara Walters about not peeing on them girls. So that's kind of what this feels like a little bit.

When you started talking about your buddy being molested, I thought this was so bad. He did. They got him good. He really diddled him. This makes me think of what's the, what is the, what is the Asian guy that admitted being molested? Bobby Lee. Bobby Lee. He told, but that was, I never last so hard of that. I mean, I never last so hard in my life.

Said he was brutally molested by a guy with Down syndrome. He kept adding. He kept adding to it. Every time they thought they thought, I can handle it, I can handle it. He added something. Like, you can't laugh at that. Repeatedly over the course of the entire summer. When I was 12 years old, I got brutally molested.

And he was like, he was like, well, he had candy. Oh. You should have started with he had candy. It's funny you bring those guys up. Bobby Lee and like not so much Brian Cowan, who's the other guy, or Brandon Schaubb, who's so not funny. But Bobby Lee and like Theo Vaughn and Nate Bargatsy, I love those guys. yeah they are they are hilarious like i could i could imagine doing a podcast with him and just like it'd be one of those times where you walk away after two hours and you're like your your stomach hurts and you wake up

the next day and you're like oh my god i genuinely think theo von might be one of the funniest human beings on the planet you know here's a he's so funny you know what the problem with with him is that he's funny because part of his funniness is first of all to be a comedian you have to be smart yeah You know who said that in like her one of an interview where barbara walters was being interviewed like she had retired and she was being interviewed and the interviewer said you've interviewed people from scientists and doctors to everybody she said who are the smartest people she was comedians immediately like i mean she was no hesitation no she's comedians she said you have to be just absolutely brilliant and fast and sharp to come up with the comedic response or those jokes, the way those people are she used, and those are some of the most amazing interviews I've ever had. There's some of the smartest people I've ever interviewed. And so here's what I find about Theo Vaughan is he is hilarious, but he does it in a way

that you think he's not that smart, but he's got to be brilliant because his responses and the things he says are fucking hilarious. So it's like, you're saying this in a way and you're brilliant and you're saying in a away like you're a bumpkin a lot of times it's not even what he says it's the way how he says it and not many people can do that yeah he's sweet he does the whole white privilege miss that miss that oh my god green privilege bro what we fine over let's share this plum home boy you think i took all your shit and just don't got it god yeah he's good his podcast what didn't something happen with his podcast i heard him yeah he got he got and

they called that dude out too yeah yeah it was like on news google news and everything that but i guess that guy had got hit a bunch of podcasts uh maybe even bobby lee too he got him for millions and millions and millions of dollars it's just like a tuesday for you poor theo von yeah but he called that that guy was doing like greasy shit though you know uh ad revenue it was something to do with ad revenue and not pay them and yeah i don't know the whole deals but yeah he was like delaying to like a bunch of podcasters and yeah wait until there's a name for that when they uh some some kind of scam and they do it in uh the dark web guy remember was telling us about that where they keep withholding and they back it up to the point where they get

where suddenly it's like okay we have like three million dollars that we're supposed to pay Or we could take that $3 million, close the operation down, and start it up using this name, and nobody will catch us. Patriot Coal did that. A coal mining company, actually. And then what they also did to Theo was they had started, what you said, they started the company. And then they were like, what we'll do, we don't have the money that we owe you, we'll pay you in shares of this new company. and then you promote this company so that your promotion of this company

makes your shares valuable because of your influence. And we keep your money. And then we keep your money. Yeah. So they were trying to get... You must think... You know what the funny thing is?

Is that so scam victims, if someone who's victimized once, you think, oh, well, they're twice as wise. They're actually, no, they're actually more vulnerable and ready to be plucked again. Yeah. So a lot of scam people... Roo, probably seven times.

What? I've sold Luluru pants. What is it? Yeah, that's how good I was that. I can't say it. My wife actually did sell Lerick. Did she really? Yeah, I lost like seven times.

I'm not having while you were in prison. I don't know what that is. The MLM clothing company. It's a pyramid scheme. Oh, okay. And all the white girls that like pyramid like pumpkin spice lattes at the time, they were selling those Lularoo pants, man. I told my wife, don't do it.

Like, you're going to get. taken and she's like, nope, I'm going to do it. My friend doesn't. I'm going to do it. About six months later, I was out $7,000. Yeah. But it stopped at about $7,000. And you've got a bunch of Lulu products in your, in your, in your, a bunch of stuff to Goodwill.

They got me for a pyramid scheme. This is true. I got busted for a pyramid, not busted. They got me for, it was about $2,000. That would have been 2012. I was a Lance Corporal. I thought I was going to change my life. It was called World Enterprise. And I don't even, if you asked me what we sold.

Fuck, I don't know, man. Dreams. A lifestyle. That's what it was. I wish I knew and you guys when I was out there. It would have worked on me then, but nowadays it would probably still work on me. That was a big thing. And they would go into Target.

and they would approach you and say, hey, I have this mentor and he wants to teach you how to change your life. And he has this book and these classes. And they're like, how old are you? What do you want to be in 10 years? And it was like they were going to sell you this book and they're going to sell you this program. And like it was always like 25 year old couples just going through target. Every target you went to, somebody would come up to you, hey, I have this mentor. He wants to change your life.

Really? Change your life. Not what I'm thinking about it. We might be in a pyramid scheme right now. We got paid by a $1.509 media yet. Not this month. Fuck. It caught me again, dude.

Yeah. You might want to. So what was your thing? What'd you do? How'd you get them? What was the gig? That's what I'm curious about. I know it involved real estate.

Yeah, I mean, the short version. is I own a mortgage company talk to me like I'm a three year old too because I'm a fucking idiot I own a mortgage company you own a mortgage company is oh yeah okay okay I own a mortgage company this is going to be a long time this the short version is going to be the long run no I own a mortgage company hold let me get some blocks out okay um I own a mortgage company and I was I got into trouble like we were we would change do oxy events every once in a while like you know you make 50,000 a year you couldn't quite qualify for the loan but if you made like 55 you could make it so we changed some things here change a pay stub maybe you were laid on your rent by 30 days and so you

couldn't get the loan well I'd wipe that out you know little things but so eventually I end up the short version is I end up getting in trouble right like I was caught kind of lying on an application that's a very simplified version and I'm on probation I get three years probation so while I'm on probation. I can't run the mortgage company. So, you know, I decided I was going to start, now I'm really going to start committing scams. So, wouldn't you? So I figure out how to get social security to issue social security cards to children that don't exist, right? So like a 10-month-old child, I'd make a fake shot record and a fake birth certificate. And I'd go in and say my, my daughter was born at home with a midwife. And here's her birth certificate. And they'd issue

me a social security number. I'd then take that and I'd apply for credit cards. I'd get three secured credit cards, make the payments and in six months I'd have 700 credit scores. I'd then make a fake ID. I'd go buy shitty houses in an area for 50,000, 50,000, 50,000. And I'd record the value. I'd record the sale, not at 50, but at 200,000. So if you do that enough in an area, And I didn't do it with one person. I did it with one person after another. It increases the property value. The whole value shot up.

So now this person who has 700 credit scores and has perfect rental history, 700 credit scores, W-2's pay subs, because I can fake all that. Yeah. This perfect borrower now owns $2 million in properties that I paid $300,000 for. So we refinance the properties, borrow a million dollars on them, make the payments. So I would make $600,000, $700,000. I'd make a few payments and then my borrower would have a tragic accident. They would be in a coma or whatever. And they couldn't make the payments anymore. So the houses would go into foreclosure and the banks would take

them back and resell them. So I walk away with the money. So that went on for about 18 months. I borrowed $11.5 million. At some point, a friend of mine got busted. He cooperated with the authorities. The FBI comes to arrest me. I'm already. I'm probed. so they can just come grab me so i find out the fbi's coming to grab me i go off on the run i take off on the run i borrow like i said i only had like a day to get out as much as i could yeah we had a few million but you know i had like a day so i got it like 80 grand i go i borrow 400 000 i steal someone's ID identity borrow 400,000 then i start i start surveying homeless people don't judge me i see you judging me so i start i'm judging you

you heard me so so so i i i start doing that and by this point like i said by this point i've figured out how to get um the dmv local state dmvs to give me credit card i mean to give me uh to give me um driver's licenses okay i figured out how to get the u.s state department to issue me passports so and i'm going and getting you know a million here i'm running different scams for about after about three years boom i get i get i get I'm actually was date line NBC News was about to come out with a special on me and so I was going to take off and so we're pulling money out of the banks me and the girl I was dating and she ends up confiding in a friend of ours who I am and that person that girl goes to the Secret Service tells them hey this fucking guy's Matt Cox he's number one on the Secret Service's most wanted list and they come and they they raid me and grab me and throw me in jail prison so that's it's all that's longer credible yeah oh listen bro I've been handcuffed brought a downtown question convinced them they had the wrong person i didn't do anything wrong they let me go were you at a hotel in nashville whenever you got wrapped up or were you like an airport or something

no what i always picture when guys let do like what you do what you did get arrested they're always at an airport walking through with a briefcase of the money and the no you just set the briefcase in one spot and walk away intentionally i just i just pulled up in my in my my truck and got on my truck and was walking towards the house and they get on the ground, get on the ground. I was like, fuck. Yeah. That's amazing.

It's interesting. Would you be interested in coming on my podcast at some point? I would be interested. I would be, I was going to say, I would be interested, but it's not like it's, it's murder-related or anything. But yeah. I know, but it would be fun. You're a fun got to interact with. Yeah.

Oh, listen. And I have, I have stories that are just something, you know, they're just ridiculously. You were in prison for 13 years. years. Oh, yeah, those are. Hey, what about Zach? I got a buddy Zach who is hilarious. Bro, he's, he's, he, he, he, I love that one. The one story, Zach, tell my buddy, Zach, uh, he's a, he's a black guy. Fucking hilarious. But he talks like he's a white guy. Six watts. Yeah. He, so he, listen, he goes, he goes to, to a, like a fucking pin. Yeah. Like, he gets in trouble in prison and ends up going from like a medium to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, to a, pin he's in the pin he's a member of a gang you know that you that you know you're basically with

a car right like you sit with a group of guys and they're all from like florida so he's i'm with the florida car and one day this guy walks in and says uh gathers all their group together he's like there's like there's like 10 of us in a cell and he comes he's like listen man we go into war bro this dude disrespecting me we're going to war uh y'all gonna have to get get your knives you got like he's like he's like everybody's like come here tomorrow we're gonna have our we're going to this we're going to go in we're going to and so Zach you know Zach's a white collar criminal he's like okay okay they're all like okay okay and and Zach's like he said like I'm I'm kind of like terrified he said and all of a sudden he said like we're all we're all like

yeah yeah yeah and then Zach is like that goes um excuse me and the guy's like yeah well what's up man what's up Zach he's like yeah um what are we going to war for and he's yeah he said man this dude uh tried me tried my try my try my punt he trauma he tried my try my boy and he goes your your boy yeah man my boy jimmy he tried him man he disrespect me and he goes well you you mean your boyfriend you're the punk that you were and he's like yeah man he tried him tried him and we we he just he can't be doing that and he goes and zack goes um yeah listen i don't want to go to war over a punk bro like i make i get it he's your boyfriend kind of feels like you problem And the other guys are all like, yeah, man, I don't, I don't, just to be a flaw on the wall and watch that.

They're all like, yeah, bro, we're not, I'm not doing it. He's like, so everybody like goes like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not doing it. So you're telling me your boyfriend, somebody tried your boyfriend. Somebody came at your boyfriend, like that, you know, wants to be with your boyfriend. And you're pissed about it. And you want all of us to go. To go, die. Get a fucking, I end up getting a murder charge.

Like, I'm getting out in a couple years. You want me to get in up with. a murder chart you know and so he was like yeah he said Zach said like when we all left guys are going up saying man I'm glad you said something bro like I didn't even think like I thought I didn't even know what was going on I was ready Zach was like yeah brother yeah how would they have all reacted if he just said it was over two magazines that would have been like they think he could yeah they'd be like he thinks he could steal for me like then they said we probably stabbed that probably would have stabbed him yeah that's different like I feel like how oh the

That seems like something you should take care of, dude. Listen, I've got some horrific. What about the other story with the, the guy, baby, baby, please, baby, please. I've heard that so many times. This is, uh, baby please. So I'm in the medium and there's some massive guys in the medium, right? And I'm in the library.

So I'm sitting in the library one day and, you know, I'm writing my little, my little stories. and you know there's there's nothing but like a bunch of just you know geeky like the library's empty in prison yeah in in the medium anyway at the low it's packed but in the medium not a lot of guys reading so i'm writing doing whatever and there's this gay guy right a punk sitting and the punk's probably a hundred probably six foot tall but still probably 120 pounds you know with her with her you know legs cross flipping through a magazine i mean we're talking about thin braids all the way to like genuinely would trick you oh so like like this yeah you're like thinking

you would you know like so so you're sitting there so all of a sudden this guy walks in this fucking big black guy six foot two six three massive lives on the rec yard come the punk is he white or black no he's black okay it's 80 80% of the mediums black guys so he comes walking in and he walks up to the punk and he goes uh looks around and when he looks around everybody there's like looks down he's like uh baby can i talk to outside and she goes flips the flips the magazine doesn't even look up baby baby baby baby baby baby baby and all of a sudden the punk goes i don't like the way you talk to me in front of your friends and he goes baby please oh baby please and i listen everybody in there, humiliated for this guy.

And he keeps looking, like, we keep looking up. And he keeps looking around and we're all like, I'm like, I'm staring at the ground, but I'm so interested in what's happening. And I'm sitting there. And he all of a sudden, he goes, baby, please grabs by the arm. Baby, can we please? And he goes, oh. And I, baby, please.

Baby please give my talk to you outside. It's like a full-on relationship. Oh, bro. Like a normal relationship. Yes. Oh, absolutely. I didn't know that happened. I thought it. You talked to me in front of your favorite.

Oh, God, no. Like, come here. No. Oh, no, complete respect. Listen, this is the closest. This guy's got a life sentence. This is the closest he's ever going to come to a woman. Right. Yeah. And so eventually, the punk gets up and walks outside. And then five minutes later comes walsing back inside, sits down, sit down. And the guy comes back in. And we're all looking down. And it's the same thing over again. Baby, please. We got, please don't you guys hide? Baby, please.

It was the most humiliating thing I've ever seen my entire fucking life. How do you keep a straight face? I'm terrified. This guy's six foot. What am I going to do? Ha, bro, your girl, fuck. He's already got life. The shit like that in boot camp where you, you like, you want to laugh so much, but you've got to keep a straight face.

Yeah, same thing. I can relate to that. What about you? You're Mormon. he is Mormon what does that me have to do with anything?

I don't know I'm sure they've seen some shit but y'all sacrifice babies on my crosses or something

Thursday and I wasn't there up Thursday I had to work out Thursday was never that 1159 media is kind of like a Mormon

company the owner Sam he's Mormon Chase is Mormon I don't know what I am but I'm not Mormon yet

not yet he's got more Pamph of Sam he's ex-Mormon he's not Mormon anymore it's a long We're doing the long time.

Yeah. You should talk to the next to them afterwards. This is going nowhere. Are you ready? Are we wrapping this up? Are you guys want to talk about anything else? I'm good. We actually got a,

we've got a meet up going on here pretty soon. So we're going to have to go, I'm going to have to go shower and everything. And we're having listeners come. And we sold out the Smokey Bones barbecue house. So are you serious? Over 17 seats. You guys are killing it.

Nobody's done that since Zeppelin. So. Oh, we sewed out the smoking bones. I'll tell you later. Real quick. Where can people go to find you? Yeah. You go first.

So 1159media.com or 1159 plus.com will take you to both of our podcasts as well as our other podcasts that we have available. Well, we actually have, like, there's like a description box. And so we can also put the links. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you can search True Crime Kent at Spotify.

It's everywhere. iTunes, all that shit. Do you know how many times you straighten it and does it? I don't know why. I'm like, is he not noticing that you can tighten it? I think it's like a nervous thing. Thank you. Yeah.

I do that in my own booth all the time too because I've got this same. But yeah, True Crime Kent, Spotify, iTunes, all the stuff. It's, you can find it anywhere podcast. are and this has been awesome dude this has been a lot of fun like i wasn't i didn't i was telling him on our way in like because it all happened so fast like i didn't know if i was going to get to do a podcast episode or if i was going to end up in a bathtub full of ice miss in my spleen but it was going to be one or the other and i was down for either or so i'm really happy that this is what it turned out being this is so much better yeah so this has been a lot of fun i've enjoyed

I know I don't talk a lot but that's kind of my role is I'm usually I slipped back into editor mode or I'm just taking mental notes I'm going to take that out sometimes I'll be doing the at the show and I'll look down

because he sits in on all the shows and I'll be rambling on about something it's usually sexual and Chase is just writing time stamps yeah hey i appreciate you guys uh watch and do me favor if you like the video hit subscribe hit the bell so you get notified videos just like this leave me a comment in the comment section i try and

respond to as many as possible also we're going to leave all the links in the description box and please consider joining my patreon thank you very much see you