Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - WES WATSON has been LYING to you... (100% PROOF)

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

WES WATSON has been LYING to you... (100% PROOF)

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And they would say, if you keep yourself, honestly, in the end, you'd be all right. But Wes Watson, they beat you, they'd rape you, you've got to join a gang, you got to this, you got to extort you. How are you going to extort me? I have no money. Wes was getting out saying, no, I did this time here.

I was in this pen, this level four yard. He has all these insane stories. It's a lie. They're not embellishing anymore. Right. Ultimately, these things come out. You and I did a video about West Watson, like, God, it was like two years ago. Yeah, the extreme West Watson.

It was like two years ago, which is funny because it actually got, we did that. And I didn't think when we did it, like, you know, we're just, it's like, hey, let's find something to talk about. I'm like, listen, this guy's crazy. Right. You know, you got to watch this. And we watched it. And you and I both like, you know, you've been on, on, on, you've been in penitentiaries. Yes.

You know, federal penitentiaries. and, you know, you've been to the higher level. Like, I've been to mediums, but I never met a guy, anybody like that guy. So, and, you know, and you've actually been to these, the pens where he basically, you got to, you got to do this, you've got to, you know, have your paperwork. You got to have this. You got to have that. You got to, you know, it's, it was so, it's so over the top.

And, and, you know, when I played the clips that we played on that video were all West Watson at his most extreme. I mean, he does, and most of what I'm saying right now is just because after reading two years worth of comments, you know, people took that video and went nuts, you know, he's not always like that and Wes has saved my life and west this, what's that? And I'm always like, I have no doubt that he helps people. Like, it takes different types of people. And I was just, we were, I was just, it was kind of just a, we were joking about the whole video. Right. But, and it was like, nobody can act like this in prison. You know what I'm saying?

like you're not acting like that in prison no you know his own people would be like walking around and acting like that right but we did that video boy it's a ton of hate on that video but it also got a lot of views and a lot of comments so and the one thing i was kept saying was like it's just like you know it was like there's not like it's an act it's got to be an act and everybody was like it's not an act but the problem is over the next two years i got people that were like hey bro like i need your can i get your email or they were sending me emails And they were saying, listen, you know, that's, that's like, I was locked up with this dude. He wasn't anything like that.

And we weren't in a pin. Like, I don't know what pin he's taught. And they would say stuff like maybe he wasn't a pin, but we were in a low or we were in a, we were at a medium security and there was, it was nothing like what he's talking about. And, you know, I would have all kinds of guys saying stuff like that. And it's the same thing with Big Herk. I actually had a correctional officer contact me and say, listen. And he was saying that Big Herk was dry snitching on other inmates. Like, hey, there's going to be a fight between these two guys in the yard.

And now some people, when the guy told me that, I said, well, one, send me the, you know, can you send me the proof of that? And the guy was like, look, I'll try and get the actual paperwork. Because every time you talk to SIS, you know, they document it. So I was like, can you send me that stuff? And we traded a couple of emails and he said, look, let me try. and get you the printouts and I'll send them to you and you know he never could so like I never mentioned it never brought it up and not just that you know there are these guys like there's a huge thing right now and I know you don't you haven't heard about this uh because I haven't really

talked to you about it I did a video like a week ago with this guy Wade and Wade has a channel called uh crime and entertainment and Wade does a bunch of stuff I'd say 80 to 90% of his content is on mobsters. Right. So real mobsters, like old-time mobsters are the today's mobsters. So more like old mobsters that are now doing YouTube. So it's like, like here's the thing, in the 70s, 80s, 90s, when a reporter would ask a mob about the mob or about the mafia, they would say, what are you talking about?

there is no mafia like they would deny it to that's part of their code like you don't talk about you don't talk about this thing that we've got going you don't you don't ever and so then goddy kind of made it you know a cool exciting he put a stature right social stature to it right and then when these guys kind of went to prison and got out and retired and said look I'm changing my life and then they would start doing YouTube and there's guys like sammy the bull has a huge channel Michael Franzis has a huge channel and so they and they'll bring on all mobsters and they have a huge chance they they they have huge followings well there's a guy that I was locked up with in Coleman in the low and his name is skinny Joey Marlino and supposedly

he ran the Philly mob now you know there's some people who question like whether he was ever officially you know made the leader of but it's pretty much the consensus is he was well he's now doing a channel where he's going on and he says and I'm exposing all these rats that are running YouTube channel. And he's got paperwork. He's showing FBI 302s where this guy cooperated, where that guy cooperated. But what's funny about that is like Marlino, who acts like a tough guy, is 130 pounds. And he's like 5'8.

And two, and he's been in, listen, he's been shot. He's been in shootings. He's done some serious stuff. He beat, I think, two or three RICO cases, went to, prison. Well, he took a plea. Now, this is another thing that mobsters don't do. They never take a plea. He took a plea. Went to prison with me. Look, and I had lunch and dinner with him several times. Now, he had no idea. I cooperated. He's sitting at a dinner table, listen to me. And he's miserable. Everybody he knows is an idiot. Everybody's a scumbag. You know, whether they're a snitch

or not, they're stupid or they're a scumbag or they're a piece of garbage. He's just one of those grumpy, grumpy guys that's so overwhelmingly negative. you know, and I guess I'd be, I'd have a bad frame of mind, too, because one time when he went to prison, went to trial and I think he, he went to prison and went to like, I want to say it was, might have been federal prison, but when he gets back out, like, finds out that some guy was sleeping with his wife, you know, and that guy's still walking around, by the way. I think somebody got her pregnant. I think like there's a whole, oh, it's, it's horrible. But, you know, and then of course, that gets around. Somebody killed. killed his best friend, you know, apparently there was, I heard two different versions at one, there was retaliation, two, there wasn't. Like, there's all these things. But now he's, he's retired living in South Florida. And he just started a YouTube channel, which basically most of it, he talks about betting. Right. Because he was also, you know, he's a huge, he's a degenerate gambler. And so the whole snitching thing is becoming huge, right? And, and he

his whole thing is like literally guys are saying to him like hey man why don't you come on my channel like if you come on my channel it'll help you get subscribers and he's like he did a video like I don't want none of you snitch snitches asking me to come on your channel you know he's like you're a snitch right your dad or you're a rat your dad was a rat your so-and-so was a rat like it's just like like it's like this guy is nuts anyway here's the thing with the big hurt thing and here's why I didn't think the big hurt thing was a big deal because sometimes in prison guys will say something to the police

because they know there's going to be an issue and that issue is going to be so detrimental to the current order. Of what they've got going on. Right. And they will kind of, you know, so does it seem like dry snitching? The cops might think, oh, he's just, he's dropping a note. He's snitching on this guy.

But the truth is, typically they have. have a motive. So I was thinking, even if this guy gives me the paperwork, why would I do a video when the truth is, I don't know what Big Hertz motivation was. And then I never got the, never got the paperwork. So maybe that wasn't even true. So I don't know. But the Marlino thing is, it's like these are things that are happening in like the prison genre, the mob tube genre that are that are it's causing chaos bro chaos the guys are going nuts over it what the um the video we just saw no no that's what i'm so that's what i'm getting oh you're talking about the mob guy talking oh yeah right i'm only mentioning that because so you have to think a lot of these guys who are like you know

i never snitch now he's coming out like here's the paperwork or you know that i was i interviewed by the FBI, yes, but I never cooperated. I mean, on my case, did I, did I have to have a conversation about what I did to plead guilty or whatever, yeah, I did, but I never cooperated. Now, he's coming out with, nope, there's testimony, there's this, there's that, here's transcripts, here's 3.02s, here's, and he's saying all kinds of stuff, which honestly, that's why, like, to me, when I came out, like, I cooperated. You don't have, you have a problem with it.

Go fuck yourself. Like, what are you going to do? Nothing. I'm going to call you a snitch. Great. You're going to call me a snitch in the fucking in the, in the, um, in the comment section. So what? Like if I have to put my cooperation 12 years off my sentence, but I have to put up with you calling me a rat in the comment section, I can't cooperate fast enough to get that 12 year left. If you think I'm willing to cooperate against other criminals, if you think that doesn't, if you think that I'm okay with that, do you think that your opinion means anything to me?

like I sleep like a baby but so with that with that said the West Watson thing right so here's a problem with the West Watson thing when I used to watch those videos the stuff he was saying like I've known tons of guys that were in pins and what it was like and I remember I used to always say like yeah bro I can't go to a pin and they would say nah you might get a little bit a shit, but if you keep to yourself, honestly, you'd probably, in the end, you'd be all right. They'd fuck with you a little bit. But in the end, you'd come up with a click of guys. You'd be all right.

You'd get a job. You'd be all right. It's not what you think. But Wes Watson, they beat you, they'd rape you. You've got to join a gang. You got to this. You got to extort you. How are you going to extort me?

I have no money. Right. I have no money coming in. Or you got to put in work. You got to this. I'm not going to stab anybody. You don't want me stabbing anybody. That's not going to work out.

No. I've seen one of those. Anyway, one of the people aren't supposed to be in prison having to put in work episodes. I've seen that and just kind of like, like, what was that? How bad did that go? Oh, I've seen, listen, I might can do, I'm going to, on my channel, I need to do a podcast about people who put in work that's not supposed to put in. in work. People putting in work that went in that. Yeah, like, yeah, putting in work going bad.

So, like, Matt put in work, like, okay, that was horrible. Nice. I don't know. I mean, I can insult him. Do you use harsh language? So what happened was I've,

I've gotten people that have sent me emails or mentioned things in the comment section where they're like, bro, this guy's full of shit, this guy's, it's not true. He didn't behave anything like that in prison. Right. He, you know, wasn't a shock caller. He wasn't this. He wasn't that. And it was like, like, listen, that video is doing well. It's gotten some decent views for me for my channel. Like, I'm not interested in doing another video. And other people have come out and had videos where they've said, look, he wasn't at this prison. I was there. He

wasn't in this right. The story he's telling is somebody else's story. The, you know, things like that. Still, I don't, I didn't pay attention to it. But this guy came out with a video a couple weeks ago. Stop. Do you know how fast you were going? I'm going to have to write you a ticket to my new movie, The Naked Gun. Liam Nissan. Buy your tickets now.

I get a free chili dog. Chili Dog, not included. The Naked God. Tickets on sale now. August 1st. And he's, he's not just saying, like, Wes is exaggerating. What he's saying is this guy wasn't in really almost any, well, he wasn't in any of the state.

prisons that he said he was in I was on this pin I was in this level four yard in California state penitentiary system this one for so many years and this one for so many years and the truth is this guy got his records and it's like that's not what happened he was never there right yeah you watch the video I watched the video and I'll put the link to the video in the description box if anybody wants to watch it but I mean this guy like he he has the screenshots he's got the whole thing and let me play this for a minute. They can't question anything about where he was housed and what he has done. He has been the biggest fake full of lies. And I think people deserve to know, especially those

who've given them money over the years, supported to his seminars, you basically have supported an individual who's lied to you from day one. Therefore, how could you trust anything that this individual has to say? That's my personal opinion, and that's why I'm making this video. People have done stuff about exposing them, but there's been nothing to support anything and what people have said. It's all been hearsay and how they perceive what they've heard from him. But right now, I've got the whole history of everywhere he's been since he's entered CDCR, California Department of Corrections Rehabilitation. And for one who's always talking about California gangs and California level fours and all this stuff, right? Here's

kicker. He's only been to one prison in California and that was the California Department of Corrections Rehabilitation Reception Center in Donovan. He was only in Donovan reception. These are 100% confirmed facts. Everything I'm about to show you, hey, it's going to expose a lot. Now, West Washington has basically done what you would call stolen valor, misrepresenting himself, his people, and everything that he's ever said on YouTube. There's those, right, whether you're a North Daniel, Sudeno would. Well, he drags it out. Right.

He drags it out a little bit to get as much, he gets to like 15 minutes of watch time. I mean, it's not a bad video if you want to, you know, if somebody wanted to watch it, it's about 15 minutes. He kind of, you know, goes through the whole thing and he explains that, you know, he did do like, I think three years in Arizona. I think he did like 18 months. And I could have these numbers wrong, something like 18 months in California, but they were, they weren't penitentiaries. They were all like lows and mediums. You know, not that a California lower a medium isn't a horrible place. Yeah, a Texas, Texas medium was supposed to go rougher than Penn, so.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, Beaumont, bloody Beaumont. Yeah, it became buddy, became Buddy Beaumont. What? Buddy. My buddy. Um, so anyway, I watched that, I watched that video and, and, you know, here, it's so funny because we did that video when you and I.

did it like we you know mocked him and everything this guy's talking about how people have given him money he's made a ton of money he does these seminars he and here's are i don't tell you this i had a guy contact me who said listen bro i want you to do a a video with west watson for like i forget how much yeah yeah but here's what he was going to do because he'd already paid this he said like if you paid like 200 bucks west talks to you for like 30 minutes on the phone or something like that and he actually paid the money to west and then got on like a a zoom call with him. He goes, I swear to God, he said, West called me a bitch about 15 times within the first 10 minutes. Well, you didn't stop bitching up, bro. Or you, you're bitching up, bro. Maybe what are

you acting like a bitch? What's wrong with you? You're a bit. I mean, he just like, he's like, listen, he said it was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. He said it was worth every single dime I paid. He said, he hung up on me twice. He said, I called back. He yelled at me again. He said, like, I got abused for like 10, 15 minutes. Finally hung up and didn't answer. He and took my money wow so he said i would love it if you would he's i'll pay for you to be on the phone with him or for you to do one and record it and put it up he said i'd pay it would be hilarious and i was like this and if he hung up on you and this guy's like a salesman a normal salesperson never been to prison said if he was abusive do you what's he going to be to me

super that's going to last all of two minutes super abusive but would that be worth the money to get out like that. In some instances, I'd say, yeah. We were going to pay for it. Yeah. Well, hey, that's, that's free, that's a free video for two minutes, because you can do it and then talk about it. Yeah, it never happened. It was so funny.

So many of these guys, they, they have ideas and they want to do it and then, you know, we go back and forth and it just never, it never materializes. But so you have a different take. Like, to me, and I have no doubt that Wes got out of what I think probably happened was he probably went to prison and just like he said,

because I know you've never really probably watched any of his videos, but he talks about how all these things were happening, but he was reading like books on spirituality. He was reading books on motivation. Did he not say that though? What do you mean? What do you mean? He read books on spirituality and motivation. Yeah. No, he's he's, I said I know you haven't seen those videos. But I've watched a couple of videos where he talks about how he kind of his mind changed when he was in prison and how he realized like he wanted to get out. He wanted to be a motivational speaker. He wanted to help help people. He wanted to, you know, of course he wants to make a ton of money. You know, and he thought that he could he could do that and get out. And so he started

reading all of these books. And, and then he got out. And of course, he went on a whole media tour and a YouTube tour and built up a huge clientele base and started charging people. He charges people. I know a guy that works out at the gym where Wes works out. He said he comes in there with five or ten people that he trains. He is and abuses the hell out of them the entire time. Wow. Yels at him, scream.

So here's my view, right? Okay. So he's created a persona. because as you as you know the the rock Duane Johnson right is nothing like he was at WWF now totally different totally different person a very thinking man who's probably it's a character huh the rock was a character was a character so and and I could actually tell that he was playing a character so it didn't bauble my mind that he was like that what he was doing wasn't real right you know yeah i don't know

what he was shaped like before but i take my hat i took my hat off to him for being in iron man shape you feel what i'm saying yeah at the time yeah he's probably he's probably always in good yeah but you know what i'm saying and and using that to you know you know become a character to make money. And he, like, he might have come up with the whole concept while he was in jail. He might have used the jail time and then, like, talk to people who have been in pens that describe certain people. You know what I'm saying? He might have had a idea and concept. So this guy, I don't think he's exposing him. Of course, if he's lying about where he's been, I guess he's doing that to be part of the character. Because the rock will tell you he's only

ever been in a serious fight in his life one time. Right. But he's been in hundreds of choreographed. Right. But I think the problem is, is that, you know, the rock is calling himself the rock. And he's, he's, it's obvious it's a character, you know. I mean, West was getting out saying, no, I did this time here. I did this time here.

I did this here. I was in this pen and this level four yard. I you know all of these insane he has all these insane stories and and he and he does it and he's not just when he's yelling and screaming when he's having a normal conversation he's calm and he's coherent and he's he'll have this conversation like I went here and this happened and that happened and he explains all these different things that happened and it's like okay well well those things didn't happen right so you built your character it's kind of like there was a guy named the liver king who he was huge following, right, had a massive following where he said all he ate was like raw meat, liver and different parts of the body. And listen, the guy was so jacked up. He looked like a body. He looks like a bodybuilder.

Right. And everybody was like, you know, bro, you're on steroids. He's like, absolutely not. This is all natural. And he had huge following and everything. And then it comes out that the guy, one of the doctors that he had approached about getting steroids. Yeah, Whitney just exposed him like, look, this is what the email says. This was what the guy said.

This is all the stuff he was taking. This is this. And then he had to come out and say, yes, that's true. And it's like, I understand the idea of wanting to embellish your story. Right. But ultimately, these things come out. That's why. You're not embellishing anymore.

Right. Right. And here's the thing, though, most people, I think, when it comes out, I think by that point they're so ingrained in you and your character that you don't probably lose much other than some credibility maybe for the future but you probably keep the bulk of your base like i don't think it's going to hurt hurt him he doesn't really address it he does a little bit here and there but he the thing is what he's never done is said hey here's all my paperwork here's all the proof of this here's the proof he doesn't do that because he's like i don't

I'm not going to address that. Well, at some point, when everybody else is providing documentation and you're not, it's like, okay, well, then it's true. Then maybe you should address it and say, hey, this is what happened. This is the way I thought to go. You know, it was a stupid move. Would you call it stupid if it's made him successful? I mean, it's built on a lie, but.

Yeah, yeah, faked it till he made it. Yeah, but I always think of that when you're walking, driving around in a Lamborghini and you're showing yourself living at a penthouse, but then what happens is they end up being extremely successful. And they do end up in the penthouse. And they do end up with the lamery. So it never catches up to them. Right. This is caught up to you. And it's like you're not that the guy is not a tough guy. Like he, I'm sure, I'm sure he's extremely disciplined. Just to look like that, you got to be disciplined. Even if it's all, even if it's steroid, even if you take steroids, you still got to work out and eat, right? So I don't, I just think that I, I think, I

saw the video and I thought fuck man I knew it I knew something was like you you knew he was lying but you can tell he was a character yes you can tell by what he's saying he's lying you know and that's what we had in our last video like what no way you know what I'm saying like you can tell about what he's saying he's lying that's why I'm saying that that video was kind of like and you know I'm I'm certain like we said there's no way he could have acted like that in a prison yard there's no way he could have done that and so but it's always nice to have your point of view verified right well i mean that feels good and that's why i was kind of like okay no duh you know so it feels good you know but um no no way did like that that that wasn't

earth shattering or like even a revelation at all it was something that watching him him I knew. I'm like, okay, this is all fake. This is all some character in place. But it's funny. It's that Samuel Jackson appeal that people have. People love Samuel Jackson because he's so in your face insulting direct. That's that's one of the appeals you have, Matt. You know, like nobody knows what insult, what nugget of painful truth is going to slip out of your mouth. Have you ever read the comments in the comment section of that video? The one we did or his? No, what we did.

Yeah. It was, it was. Huh? It's hilarious. They're hilarious. Well, they, because they, people believe in that character. People buy into it. I mean, that's just the nature of, or people want to believe that they're, that, that person is real, you know.

So they don't know what they, they are looking for that. So they, they buy into it. You know, sometimes people are like, hey, I want to hear the real side of it. And so they'll buy into what we're saying. They people were giving us comments about, like, the fight that we're in. We're not talking about fight.

We're like, okay, I was scared or I didn't know exactly what I was going to do. You know what I'm saying? Say no. So fun. No, no. I'm just thinking how funny. That's actually another video that has done really well, that fight video. Yes.

The prison fight, I think it's called. So it's just the nature of the beast. It's what is appealing about us when we were being fake or doing what we were doing and we were being fake and people love it. It's just it's what pulled people in. People want that type of character in their life. Like I tell you, I call it the Samuel Jackson appeal because people love the, like, no, no white M.F. What do you think I mean? Like, oh, I love that.

It's so funny because people, whenever I talk about stuff and I'm like, look, you know, like, this is what happened or this is the way it is. And they get upset and they'll say, they're like, well, some people get upset, you know, you piece of, you're a piece of garbage, you're this. And like, this is just what I'm saying. And then other people are like, bro, I'd have done the same thing. I had done the same thing. You put a logical approach on something. You put a logical approach on something. You know, I have a friend right now that.

that's in custody and facing Fed time and like telling his lawyer, hey, I'm not, I'm never, oh, that lawyer just wants me to snitch. I'm not going to snitch. So I asked him, I go, what if you're facing life? He goes, well, if I'm facing life, I'm going to take them to trial, they're going to have to, you know what I'm saying? And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, it's going to take a little while to bring you around to, you ever thought about getting out? And his girl is saying, what are you talking about? Like, screw those other guys. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, this is you. You know? I mean, trying to convince him. So I'm really, I'm trying to walk the middle in order to coax him over to the other side. And he talks all that tough man talk. But like 15 years from now when there's no end, you're going to absolutely look back and go, what the hell was I thinking about? You know what I'm saying? Especially when it's been 10 or 15 years and now no one answers your calls. No one sends you money.

No one. Like you've seen those guys that were locked up and like they never get mail. They never make a call. Nobody ever comes to see them. They have no prospect at all. Even if they get out, they're going to be 75 years old getting out with nothing. They're going to die in the gutter. And, you know, it's easy to be 26 years old on the street saying, well, shouldn't have done the time.

Shouldn't do the crime. Couldn't do the time. Couldn't do the time. you know and saying all these cutesy fucking things but the truth is if they if you look back on it it's like what's really happening what is really you know what is what is really my responsibility to these other people that the moment they get caught will turn on me amen and that's exactly what he was saying he's saying well I have to hope this other guy is a stand up guy I'm like yeah you kind do you know what I'm saying you know but anyway that's this it's and and he's giving me

a tough man like i'm not like that you know and i'm i'm going whoa yeah insane bro insane so it's it's it's and it that to me is an act you know that's kind of the the west walker act of i'm tough i'm big bad and you know and all that gets crushed and demolished by a by authority as we call it Five years, life. Yeah. And I'm going to be, I'm going to hold a loyalty to somebody that's already going to get life somewhere else. Oh, yeah. What I love is the guys when their co-defendant show up two years later and they show up in the prison with them two years later.

Yeah, man, I got busted on this and I got busted. Then you find out like their co-defendant told on other people. And that's why he only got five years for, you know, two keys of Coke or, or, you know, whatever. And you're going, like, you've got a criminal history off the chart. You've been in state prison twice. Now you're here for five years. And you're saying they caught you with two keys and a gun. Like, I know, I know.

I should have told on you. I met a gentleman. I was helping him, as a matter of fact, a gentleman that got a life sentence and only had one prior. He was, and the person that was bringing in, like, 20, 30 keys from Mexico, monthly or weekly, right? Who was the head, when the gentleman that got life told the prosecutor, like, your prosecutor said, I'm going to give you a life sentence. He's like, okay, he didn't do it. He goes to trial, and the person that was actually bringing in 20 keys of dope testified on him and only got 15 years. And I'm saying to myself, I'm reading this and I'm saying, this is in the paperwork.

I'm reading this and I'm saying to myself, like, this isn't justice. Under no circumstance would they give a guy they know wasn't bringing in. They gave him life based on the fact that he knew that the other guy was bringing in 20 keys. Like, I'm hanging out with you and I know that you're bringing in that much drugs. And yeah, I've done some of it because I got a habit and I'm driving you around or I'm doing whatever and you're breaking me off pieces of drugs. But the fact that I know you're doing that, you're going to give me life and the person that's actually doing, you're going to give 15 years because they testified on me that I knew it. Whether it was, and he said it wasn't true. So it's that there, the justice system is not based on justice.

I read that in the book. It's based on how do you help us feed this machine? Like, do you have something for us to feed in this machine? No. Then we're going to allow you to be eaten and shitted. You know, it's funny in my case, and this might be slightly, you know, I'm streamyarding it. Like the first time I got in trouble, my lawyer told me. me you haven't been indicted yet you know the only person that's signed any documents or

you know that they really have is your wife which i was currently in the process of getting a divorce right and i was like he's like so if you you know how how like how amicable is this relationship but i was like now i'm not i'm not going to do that and he was like okay he said well the other option is this he said they know you're running a mill like you're running a mill like you're running a you're running basically like a phone room where you guys are churning and burning mortgages anybody that comes in gets a mortgage you spit it out you make the deal work you do whatever he's like but he goes if you would go into your office and go into the file cabinet grab 10 or 20 of the most egregious files you've done that your mortgage brokers have done

and bring them in here talk to the FBI about them they'll be indicted and I can get you what's called pretrial it's like a pretrial intervention right because i hadn't lost any money so he was like you'll i can get you so that you're not indicted so you can walk and give them these guys and i was like no i'm not going to do that okay now that's what i said because back then that's what i was i was brainwashed by tv like everybody else i was like no i'm not going to do that like i think i'm a fucking tough guy um well i'm saying all this why wouldn't you do that like at the time what did i didn't my actually said i said i'm going to do to them what what so somebody wore a wire on me yes to get me to get me in trouble right um or to get the case started on me so i was like

oh i'm going to do the same thing to them that gretchen and pete did to me i'm not going to do that like i'm i'm not going to and here's the other thing too and this was what you know he was my lawyer's telling me you're probably going to do you could you could get between you know zero to to 36 months. But the truth is, because he kept saying that the FBI thinks you've lost, or you've done about half a million dollars in fraud. But keep in mind, my wife's the one who took out the loans.

Right. So he's like, really have very little on you. Like you can one hand over these people. We can keep you and your wife from being indicted. And so I remember thinking, well, I didn't, there isn't half a million dollars in loss. Right. And he was like, he was like, oh, no, no, they said there is potential loss. And I said, no,

there's not. Because the properties were all worth like 200,000. We borrowed 150. Another one was worth 2.30. We borrowed 160. Like the actual value of the property was higher than the loan. So there wasn't even potential loss. Plus, by the time they came around, I'd sold out of like four loans, I'd sold three of them. And within a month or two, we'd sold the other one. So these loans don't even exist anymore. Oh, but you actually let them get paid off? That's what I'm saying at that time. Yeah, because this wasn't a scam. I mean, it was a scam.

It was fraud, but it wasn't a scam. We weren't trying to walk away with the money. We were just buying houses, renovating them, and then I would then sell them to my wife at the time. Okay. We were trying to get away around something called seasoning. But that's not, you know, that's what I didn't want to get into all that. It's complicated. The bottom line is, initially, I never cooperated, right?

Like, I'm not going to cooperate. But here's what happened. I said look I'll plead guilty they don't indict my wife and and he was like okay he's like I mean I said so just explain that to him that she didn't know what she was doing you know she didn't have any clue what she was signing I just she signed anything I put in front of her blah blah blah um so okay that's fine uh so he goes to the FBI and then the FBI finally comes back and they admit you're right there was that those the appraisals all we got from the from the from the from the FBI finally comes back and they admit you're right there was that those the appraisals all we got from the from the from the lenders all say the houses were worth more than loans. So there was no potential loss either. So they were like, okay, you're looking at 36 months of probation. Now, here's the funny thing. So then the next time they come to it, so I go and I run a huge scam.

I run this huge scam. I borrowed like $11.5 million in like 18 months. FBI shows up to arrest me while I'm federal probation. And I take off on the run. While I'm on the run, I find out that all of my former mortgage brokers are cooperating. All of them are saying, not only they're cooperating, but they're saying they didn't do anything. They're not saying, I'm just not going to talk to you, which is what my ex-wife did. When they tried to talk to her, she said, I'm not talking to you.

I don't have to talk to you. I'm not going to. And that was it. But these guys literally called, were making. We're making phone calls. We're walking in with lawyers. We're saying, look, I'm willing to tell you everything that Cox did. I mean, I didn't do anything. Like, I kind of knew what he was doing, but I wasn't a participant. But the truth is, you were a participant. So they're trying to get me hemmed up and get them out of it. I knew that was happening. And I had heard that was happening from people that I spoke with. And then when I ultimately got caught my, and I got my discovery, I saw all the 302s, all everybody that had talked. And I thought all the people that I didn't roll over on, immediately started rolling over on me. And that's really when it hit me. I was like, what are you doing?

You need to cooperate. And my lawyer was telling me you need to, like, if you're thinking not to cooperate, like that's the dumbest thing you could do because the same people that, first of all, you're, they're going to hold you accountable for all this lost money. So these people that made millions of dollars, they're not going to be held accountable. I'm going to be held. And they're going to, all of them will get on the stand and say, you did it. He did it.

I didn't know anything. Even though they made millions, they'll walk away with their millions. I'll go to prison for 30 years and they won't give a shit. And that judgment will be against you for the loss. All that will fall on your, yeah, for the money. And, you know, that's really when it hit me. This whole not saying anything is absolutely stupid because the same people that I'm trying to protect, they aren't not saying anything.

And they're going to put money on my books and come see me and be thankful and appreciative. No, they're actively helping the FBI throw dirt on my grave. Those people don't deserve loyalty. And I realize that, you know what, now I think about it, everybody's out for themselves except for me. So you know what? The words that they tell you at the beginning, like, hey, you might as well help yourself. They're going to be helping themselves. Absolutely right.

And I was like, yeah, I ain't doing that. I'm ready to cut every fucker's throat that I've ever met. Right. Just to get out of this. Because I realize that's what's really happening. And periodically, you'll get some guy that will stand up and say, I don't give a shit. I ain't like that. And he'll do life.

And good for him. Good for him. 15 years later, though, you don't meet anybody where 10 or 15 minutes years later where nobody's talking to them. Nobody's answering their call. 95% of those guys are like I should have said something I should have cooperated I mean you've heard this

and everybody's heard this there's only two kinds of people in federal prison those that cooperated and those that wish they had okay that's it that's it

there's only two so I mean unless you got you know it's easy to man up if you've got five years you got five years you took the drug program you walked out in three years

and you're like yeah man man yeah yeah they were threatening to give me 25 years but I held strong they were no you were never getting 25 years you know you knew that you knew that it was never going to happen unless you just walked in and said okay I'll take the 25 don't think a prosecutor wouldn't give it to you he might feel slightly bad and give you 20 which is still 15 more than you deserved right but he wouldn't lose any sleep over right I love that I talked to this guy Ian Bick and he was like oh I forget what he was saying but he was like they were initially saying I was looking at at like 40 years or something it was like like you owe less than a million dollars you're you're a

clean cut a Jewish kid that lives in Connecticut that that that basically stole half a million or stole a million dollar has a million dollars in loss you're not facing but a few years and he went to trial lost and still only got like five years like so so if you're saying oh I was I was facing 35 years or 40 years or whatever they were threatening him with like you were never facing that to begin with because you lost at trial and they still only gave you like five right right but that's what that's what they said to everything everybody you're looking at 150 years and then you go to your lawyer lawyers like listen that's that they always say I mean is it possible I mean yeah it's possible it's not going to happen but you are looking at 30 like 30 to me was like

oh that's a death sentence I felt like it was You know, anyway, go through, so my scenario on that is, like, I felt like I was looking at 10, but, you know, I was top dog, so I didn't have anyone to cooperate on, you know, they just, what they wanted for me was for me to tell them how I did everything I did, you know, because they're kind of like, what in the, like, Like, where did you come up with all this stuff? We want to know where these ideas came from. You know what I'm saying? Whenever I talk about brilliant scams and brilliant people to these producers or people that I talk to, I always bring you up. So I was like, listen to this. And what was so funny is like in all the thinking, you know, like now I feel like a complete idiot because of that I let them fool me with their, with their,

system. You know, like I gave them that information and they weren't supposed to use it against me. It's it's it really was a phase in my life where agreeing to give them that information basically gave me more time. So I like fed yeah. And they tell you, well, we won't use it. And they used it. They used it to enhance my sentence. Right. Next thing you know, they think you got two victims. Next thing you know, you tell us. about 60. And now you're looking at over 50 victims. That's exactly what happened. That's exactly. In fact, my judge said that. You know, when he was upset, he goes, you know, what these victims had to go through. And he goes, I mean, although there's only two, you know, it's like, I mean, you know, it's.

She had to make three phone calls to the credit card company before they would remove those charges. Three calls. It was 20 minutes on hold for two people. That's a 16 year big. Definitely, you know what I'm saying? Listen, I had a guy in the comment section. I'm going to tell you this because, listen, in the comment section, these guys are brilliant. The stuff they say, I'm like, this guy is sharp. This guy said, and he said, this is what Matt Cox said to his co-defendant. And then he put in quotes, he put, he put, listen, bro, if we get caught, I'm telling on you.

You need to bring somebody so you can tell on. That's excellent. I thought this guy's great. It's rolling your way, so you need to be able to roll it away from you. But it's coming. You better. It's coming. Oh, my God.

No way is it going to roll towards me. I'm going to make sure which direction the shit is coming. It's rolling towards you. I love that. I love it. That's like almost my favorite line from. the comedian that says if you do something with somebody else and you're hiding and then the cop grabs him and he goes, come on out, Matt, they got us.

Yeah. They've got you. Reese used to tell that. He's like, listen, one time me and my buddy, we got pulled over and we both ran and we both ran in the woods, but they caught me. And so, you know, no, they caught him. He said they caught him and I got away and I was in the woods, watching him. He said, and he walked up and down the tree line and said, come on out, Reese,

they got him. Yeah. You know what? He contacted me. I got to text him. That's who I want to definitely send a Christmas card to, Reese, to let him know, because I've been like, oh, I've got to text him, but I got to have 20 minutes because I want to listen to what he's saying. I don't want to just have him in my ear going. I want to be able to actually process it so I can get laughs at the time and later on. Like, I can't believe Reese said that crap. He's exactly the person he was in prison. He hasn't changed one bit. Miss him.

Want to have political debates and everything. I miss him. Miss him. But listen, we've gotten away from West and like I'm trying to get out. Oh, okay. Well,

yeah, you want to wrap this up? Yes, but we can definitely schedule. I got to put some more out me. And I'm going to come on and like I've been writing down topics where I can, but I'm not going to make. Anyway, let's do this.

Well, I do want to do, because we had, we had, I was going to say hours, like, more like, you know, a hundred hours of conversation where we were talking about, like, how to pull off the perfect scam. What is the, and I remember my version of the perfect scam, you were always like, you're a bastard to basically create the perfect scam and then put. it on somebody and you're like i was like yeah bro like some guy who's been arrested four or five times for fraud like you make sure everything points to him right he's like you're like some guy who's working as a plumber's job i'm like that's not my fault i'm sorry i can't go to jail oh man but but somebody that deserves it though you got to you got to yeah i absolutely is a dick you know you dealt with in jail and they're absolute jerk and they deserve a little extra grief in their life i met those oh yeah like you're like i you're not out you're out and doing good good for

you but i think you deserve a little more grief how about this explain this because you probably would go to trial and and you could win because they'd be like maybe he didn't do it you know what not in my scenario in my scenario he needs to take a plea you go to trial you're like hey i'm getting this. Hey, let me think right now. Um, but yeah, we need to do a whole video because I remember we would sit down and I was, you know, I had a whole thing where like you, you order the laptop that you're going to use to create all the documents. Everything. A brand new laptop. You have it mailed. You have it mailed to his address and you pick it up. You keep all the, you know, all the box and everything. You then create all the documents on it. You use it throughout the

whole scam, you then package it back up and then you leave it on his doorstep. Or you call him and say that, you know, you work for Apple and, you know, you're sending out free laptops and all he's in about 30, he can use it. And in 30 days from now, someone will call and he'll have to answer, you know, 14 or 15 questions. And it's free. And I'm not asking for anything from you. I'm just letting you know, we're going to mail it. Someone put your name in a whatever. And then send it to And when he gets a free lap pop and he opens it up and he's got using it, keep in mind he's got all the he's got all the paperwork around. He's using it for his personal stuff.

Plus you're calling him on the cell phone, the drop, the same drop phone that you're using to run the whole scam. Like I had a whole thing like the boom, boom. And then of course you're giving him. By the time his house gets raided, he's so overwhelmingly done because there's so much evidence that he's been given. You can even give him money. Think about it.

You could even send a letter to him with part of the proceeds saying that he was named in a class action lawsuit and he made this much money. So he'd take part of the proceeds and go deposit $12,000 into his bank account. He's thinking he's having a bunch of fortunate events. Yeah, like my life's great for the past two months. It's been amazing. I've been getting everything.

I don't know who's doing all this entering in the things, but I love it. It's been a good two months. But yeah, that was the whole thing where I had all these different things that you could do that just tied the guy in so bad. Because here's the thing. And that whole thing was that and we got to do a whole video because I could talk about it forever. It's so un overwhelmingly devious. But what I thought was hilarious about it is that in the end, even if your name came up, the cops would be like when they go to him, do you know this person? He's going to say no.

No. So you're sitting there going, I don't know the guy. guy doesn't know me ever all the evidence is pointing to him you can't figure out how i tie in at all i'll go to trial because they'll be like Jesus like maybe you have they have me on camera somewhere they'd have some minor piece that didn't make sense to them and your address came up in a link or like we feel like you're involved but you know what 99% of all the evidence points to this guy we can't get you we're just going to run with him so yeah i get it man i get like i don't i don't know how my ad why that was mailed to my old address.

It's crazy. I'm gone. All right. See you later. That's how they are. Even if they thought maybe this guy doesn't have anything to do with it, they'll still go with them, but we have some evidence that can convict them. Let's give them 10 years.

I've met people in those scenarios. I've met people in those scenarios. Hey, this is Matt Cox. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button. Hit the bell so you get notified of videos just like this. Check the description box. I got all kinds of good stuff in there. Please consider joining my Patreon.

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