Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - What It's Like To Be In the Mob... | How the Mob ACTUALLY Works

Episode Date: June 29, 2024

What It's Like To Be In the Mob... | How the Mob ACTUALLY Works

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Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine, and it's good for your eyes too, because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers, you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam, eye exams provided by independent optometrists. In my family, it's okay to be a criminal. It's encouraged and respected. So I'm robbing stores. I'm robbing banks. I'm robbing whatever, whoever. Hijacked the trucks. I've got a $5 million bond, though. I'm facing 30 years in prison. And this is where one of the most interesting parts of the story is.

I said, there's a bomb in the bank. I need $75,000 in the next 92nd of the bank goes, boom, tick-tock. Grew up in Detroit. My father was an abusive drunk who beat on my mother, who was mentally ill. She was manic depressive and had these nervous breakdowns. And they divorced when I was four. And then I had to go live with my grandparents in Gross Point, Michigan, which is like a kind of a wealthy enclave, rich people.

You know, it's kind of a rich area just outside of Detroit, although we weren't like rich, but I would say we were upper middle class well off. You know, my grandparents, we were poor, me and my mother and my sister were poor. And so what makes that remarkable is my grandfather, Peter Paul Tocco, was cousin of a mafia dot and who actually lived in the neighborhood. And they had grown up together their whole life. They had the same last name, Jack Toko, Yakamotoko was his name. He was the mafia boss from like late 1970 to all the 2014 when he died.

My grandfather's father and the boss, mafia boss's father, were friends. They were cousins. They had the same last name and they came from the same little neighborhood in Tiracini, Sicily. So they knew each other their whole lives. In fact, the reason they migrated to Detroit was because they were family. And there was a community of Sicilians from a small area of Terracini-Cicely, which is a suburb of Palermo, who all migrated to Detroit. Some went to St. Louis and then migrated to Detroit. It's kind of how my grandfather did, but they all ended up in the same neighborhood of Detroit because they were family.

They all dated back to the old country. And the old Sicilian, these are Sicilians that only speak English. And they all knew if they came together to support each other in terms of businesses and loans and working with each other and buying and selling from each other and helping each other that they could create success which eventually they did uh prohibition really helped that out a lot too because some of them gangsters mafia guys uh the prohibition made a lot of money and um and then they spread it around so so they they spread it around my great grandfather jocotrilito you know came here didn't speak any i guess he's a poor uh fruit vendor peddler uh and you know

within 10 years he's literally a millionaire back then and so he is your prohibition so you know i have no way to prove you as a prohibition you know bootleg or whatever but he became a millionaire and a big contractor and he built a lot of detroit he actually gave a beautiful house to my grandparents as their wedding gift in fact he tore down the house that was originally there which uh had allegedly had a tunnel that went to canal that's all know the story but they tore down the old house was built in like the 1880s or something and then And built it and built a nice house and gave it to my grandparents. So all these Sicilians in the same community, they all knew each other their whole lives.

They all dated back to the old country. And so, again, I don't know anything about this. But when I go to live with my grandparents, you know, you see the world of the mafia. You've seen Godfather and you see guys in Cadillacs and suits and stuff and cigars. You see all that, right? And you go, well, mafia, it's distinctly Italian and mafia. But to me, that was just normal. It was like a, this is what I knew.

That's all I saw. you know what I'm saying? Nothing different. You know, the younger guys wore tracksuits and gold change, you know, and they flex knots of money and, you know, the young guys in their 20s and 30s and my uncles and stuff. But I didn't pay any attention. I was a slow for a kid until one day there was a girl I had a crush on. Her name was Jackie. I still remember her name. She had a birthday party and she didn't invite me. And I asked her after, you know, at school, it's kind of had my feelings hurt. It's like, why didn't you invite me to party? She said, my mom said, you're in the mafia and I said you know I don't even know if that is you know what I'm saying so I went

and asked my uncle Pete who was 12 years older than me um he was my my mother's younger brother who he was he was I don't want to say gangster when he grew up I guess he was a gangster he was a hustler street guy you know I never wanted to be the mafia he thought that was for suckers why paid an old man some money you know I mean you keep it yourself and you don't have to listen anyway but um he said to me when I asked him that he was probably like 17 years old he was with a buddy and I said uh you know what's the mafia that's probably like six years old he says he starts laughing he looks at his boy and he's like going to his little my nephew and he says uh you hear the kid and he says don't worry you'll figure it out soon enough it's our family so i i don't know what it is

but i start paying attention uh more you know because i'm trying to figure it out you know and over the next four or five years i'm kind of watching how people treat my grandfather my grandfather had a business in the eastern market, which is Detroit's Little Italy. Still to this day, it's Detroit's Little Italy. But back then, all the way back to the 30s and 40s, all the way up, all my life anyways, it was like the epicenter of the Italian community. Most of the old mafia bosses and mobsers all had businesses in the eastern market. And if you do some homework about some of these legendary mob guys from Detroit, they all

started off as like, well, the FBI had them listed as produce vendors. you know what i'm saying they just that was i don't know why maybe that's something that goes back to the old country something they knew how to do and it was like you know so they'd start like a produce business and food service and they did but that's what they're at feds all listed so they all worked in the eastern market had businesses and and where so my grandfather had a business in the eastern market called toko produce that's the family name uh he had it for 40 years um and for 25 years he had one of the biggest contracts in the city which was providing food for all Detroit public schools, the whole Wayne County

public schools. It's an enormous contract. Like, the modern day equivalent of maybe a $10 or $15 million contract. You know what I'm saying? It's huge, right? You can't get a contract like that back then without mafia influence. You know, the boss kind of dictates who gets those. And I'm sure

like the boss being cousins with my grandfather said, you know, Pete, I'm going to you know, I'll get you this contract because through his influence, you know, with the city, the city council and controllers and mayors and whatever, I'll get you this contract. And, you know, wet my whistle. So I'm imagine my grandfather paid him cut every year, gave an envelope with 50 grand or whatever it was. And that was that. Then he retired, you know, back in like

1987. That was the end of it. I don't know if my grandfather was involved in, you know, like crime per se. My uncle Pete, my same uncle Pete I was just talking to about, he did tell me once that my grandfather helped Tony Jackaloney. I'll talk about him later, very famous mobster who's the number one suspect and jimmy hoffa disappearance he's my uncle pete said my grandpa would help tony with the layoffs the layoff bets of sports bets and i didn't know what that was so i said what what is that he said well bookies try to balance their books before they in for a game you know they always try they had the goals the balance of books and they collect 10% juice so the winner's been losers lose it doesn't matter they get 10% but if they're out balanced then if this one hits

they lose big so they would call grandpa and he he would find bookies who needed that off bet. So that's what he did. And it made sense because my grandfather was in the market all his life. He loved sports. He was a huge sports fan. He loved baseball. Every Detroit Tigers game, he had season tickets.

He actually introduced me to the, on my 10th birthday, introduced me to the owner of the Detroit Tigers. The guy lands in a helicopter on the roof, the player's parking line, walks me up. And I was, oh, my God, I was more impressed by the helicopter than the fact that this guy owns the Tigers. But anyway, so he loved college football. The fact that my grand-uncle said he was a layoff bookie of magnitude, doesn't surprise me, but I don't know. My grandfather, he's an old man. I just know that the men that he was around, that he was friends with,

that I'd see down there in the market, these mob guys, they were prototypical, like, you know, same things you may see in the movies and stuff and throwback. That's what they look like. That's how they acted. So I'm paying attention as a kid. kid, I remember going to the store, the corner store, old Greek guy named Gus owned the place, and he would never take my money. So I'd go in there to buy candy and ice cream. And he would

say no, Alonzo, keep your money, tell Papa I said hi. And oftentimes he would cut some like cold cuts or something and then give me a package to run home to my grandmother and say, tell your mom I said hi. So I'd never take my, but my friends were with me and some of my cousins might be with me. And he'd take their money, but he wouldn't take money. So that, that was a little odd and then um so i just started at some point i saw the movie the godfather i'm not sure how old i was i'm a guess around you know i was gonna say how old were you i'm thinking i was probably 12 maybe i do remember i was at my uncle joe toko's house and my uncle joe toko typical one of them prototypical one of them prototypical mob dudes you know i'm saying just like big heavyset guy

dark swarthy skin heavy set big gold ring cigar he's the only one to go over Lincoln in my family. Everybody else took a Cadillac. He drove a Lincoln, so he took a lot of flack for that. Everybody was busting his balls because the Lincoln was always breaking. The caddies wouldn't. And anyways, yeah, I actually crashed his car at his anniversary party when I was drunk, 15 years old. But anyways, I remember watching the godfather at his house with my cousin, Patrice, and Jerry. And it, like, they hit me because I'm like, A, it was very much reminiscent of the world I was around and my family. Obviously, it was Hollywood and glamorized and more, you know, glamorized.

But it was similar, you know, very, very similar. And then it struck me at that point, I realized when that girl said you're in the mafia and if mom didn't want me there, now I get it. My uncle said, you're going to figure out. Now I get it. Now I understand why Gus won't take my money. Now I understand why every time someone in the market sees my grandpa, they give him a kiss on the cheek. They give him one of those double handshakes. Like, hey, Pete, good to see you, Pisang, good body.

And they give him a pretty kiss. And everybody kisses them. And my mother, everybody, like the highest level of respect. Now it makes sense. Now I know my grandfather's not a mob, Don. He's not Don Corleone. But I do know that some of these men are like that. I don't know who's who.

I'm young. I'm a kid. So I realize this, that these are criminals. I do understand that these are criminals. So in my little 12-year-old mind, I said, so in my family, it's like, it's okay to be a criminal. And in some case, it's encouraged and respected. All the men who were the, like I knew were the mob guys, got the most respect. Everybody kissed their ass.

Everybody wanted to be like them. So I'm like, in my little young mind, I'm like, oh, this is good, you know, okay. But I didn't pay much more attention to that. I have any plans to be a mobster or gangster. Like that was a little kid, I don't know. Then one day, about the same time, I was probably about 12. 13 years old I see a mini bike on the side of the road

I've told the story but I'll tell again I'm on my way to my grandparents I moved out of my grandparents and was living with my mom at the time my mother was mentally ill and we were living very squalid living horribly and we're every Sunday or every Friday we would go back to my grandparents in the old neighborhood and we'd stay a whole weekend Friday, Saturday, Sunday

we'd get a bunch of food, we'd do our laundry and all this stuff and then we'd head back to the house but on the way there I see a mini bike and I see it's a hundred dollars I want this for the mini bike and it hits me like I want this for a mini bike so I see my uncle Pete at the house he's still living with my grandparents he's only like 24 years old at the time my other uncles had graduated college and was working for the IRS at the time that was part of his job in the family was infiltrating the IRS which he did and um but anyways I see uncle Pete who I always because when I'm with them he's often saying he says

Alonzo, let's go down to the market. Come with me to the market. And I drive down there, and he'd go down there in his new flashy car and his gold chain and tracks suit. And he'd pull up at the market and all these cousins of his would be hanging out, sitting around smoking cigarettes, busting balls, just like you see in the movies. I mean, just like you would see in Little Italy. They'd be hanging out on the loading docks in the Eastern Market.

Just busting balls and laughing. I'm a little kid. I'm 12, but my uncle liked to bring me. He thought it was cool. I had a little nephew around. And they bust my balls, and I'd bust their balls. whatever and um they always had money they always had all these guys and they were never working that's another interesting thing like even though the families that the businesses they were in

front of were operating businesses these guys actually never were doing any business they were just like they're hanging out playing poker playing dice BS and i mean i guess they i saw them do some work help load trucks and stuff but they actually there was a bunch of black dudes that that worked there and they just order them around to do whatever and they just kind of run the show But they all have money and good, you know, good-looking girls are coming around, these beautiful girls. And I'm like, I'd be like them, man. Like, in my mind, I'm like, I want to be like those guys because they're funny. They're smart.

They're dressed nice. They got good gold chains. They got my girls. And so, anyways, I seen Uncle Pete. We got up this mini bike. I'm like, I saw this mini bike in a way here. Would you buy me this mini bike? I really want it back.

He says, I'm not buying you a mini bike. I said, come on. He's like, I know you got money, I said. I see it in your pocket. He's not buying no freaking minibike. tell you how to get this mini bike i said tell me how he says you know those jerry lewis cans there's like a little can do you do you remember the jerry lewis like um foundation telephone yeah the telephone yeah the telephone so so he said you go to the store and you get one of those cans right and they'll give them to you and then you

stand out in front of the store and you jing of the can would you like to donate to jerry louis kids and people stuff change in a dollar in there or whatever right he says you do that for a few hours you collect the money you dump it out keep the money you turn ten bucks in got your mini bag. So I said, okay, and keep in mind, this is a guy who I look up to. I aspire to be like, you know what I'm saying? I think he's, you know, he's a grown man and he's telling me this is okay. So he's got instilling in my little on mind. This is the behavior that is acceptable and encourage, go do this. It doesn't really, I know what I'm doing is wrong. I know it's scammy and slimy, but it doesn't hit me like, man, this is really scumbaggy to do. I mean,

this is just what we do. So I end up going to stand in front of a Kmart for like five hours because the local store, I wasn't getting enough, man. I'd get like maybe 10 bucks an hour if that. So I drive my bike, my pedal bike, like seven miles. It's a long ways for a 12 year old kid to ride on a pedal bike, man. It's like two cities over, bro. And I stand in front of this Kmart. Would you like to donate to Jerry? And I fill up this can three times. And then I tied the bag. of money and change to my bike and I paddle back you know it's about an hour and a half drive back and uh and I'm like surprised I didn't even get lost and anyways I had 140 bucks so I called my dad and say that you take me to buy this mini bike and he says where'd you get the money and I said uh

my uncle Pete gave it to me I like I lied I said Uncle Pete gave it to me so my dad takes me to me get it and and that's like my first like criminal scam racket shortly after that I got into freestyling on the bike, right? I was doing these tricks. I really was into it. I wanted a cool bike so I could learn how to do it. And I asked him, Uncle Pete, buy me the bike. And he says, no, I'm not buying you the bike.

And I know he's got money, so I'm like, dude, you're tight wide, mother effort, man. And I'm saying, buy me the freaking bike. Mom said you give me $100. The bike's $350, you know, kick in $250, man. Help me get this bike. He says, no, here's what you do. Go get your cousin, Johnny. I said, why?

He says, just go get him. Johnny's a bad kid. Very, very bad kid. He's doing life. in prison right now for double murder, you know, and he was just a bad kid, which is funny because he didn't have to be bad. He was like a good-looking kid, you know, come from money, but he was just one of those rotten apples, man, one of those kids who were just born to be bad. He liked the idea of being a gangster. He liked violence. He was just a sick, sick dude.

But he was a towemaker, and I hung around him. He was one of my best friends at the time, but my uncle says, go get him. So I go get him, and he comes over, and Uncle says, Listen, Alonzo's going to give you 50 bucks to steal a bike. He wants a master. Go up to Gross Point South, school, in the middle of the day, steal the bike, bring it back, and give you 50 bucks. Can you do that? He says, yes. He says, my uncle says, looks at me.

He says, when you come back next weekend, you'll have your bike. So I give Johnny a week. So I come back the following Friday. First thing I do, I go find Johnny. You know, I find him, you know, where his mother said he's at the park. I go find him. I'm like, you get the bike. He said, yeah, you know, he brings me to bike.

It's not the exact bike I wanted. I want a harold master. He got me a harrow sport. Didn't care. Gave him the 50 bucks. Got to keep 50 bucks. And now I'm like, okay, this is, it's starting to see what we do, right? So anyways, I end up getting in a lot of trouble over those young years living

over my grandparents. I had no father figure. I was getting into trouble. I was getting a spell. I mean, I suspended a lot for fighting and stuff, though. I mean, true story. This is a short. My second day in first grade, when my parents got divorced and I moved this high, affluent

neighborhood, my second day of school, there was like this kid, he was bullying all the other kids and had in the classroom these big wood building blocks, almost like two by fours, you know, but they were like painted and you could build a fort with him and stuff. And the kids just like taking everybody stuff. He was bigger than everybody. He was, and I asked him, well, what's this kid's? No, like, oh, he should be in third grade, but he's in first grade still. So he's this big giant luca brazi, like a freaking big luca brazi on it.

And he don't bother me, but I'm watching him pick on all these other kids. And then this is the type of kid I was. Like I snap, I had blackout, I had no control over this. I pick up a two by four and I just walk up to this kid. Wham, and I bust them over the head. And I start beating the kid. So I'm suspended. Like day three.

Day three in my new school, I'm suspended. The principals that's like, oh my God, this kid's out of control. He's been here two days. He's already beating a kid over the head with a building block. And this was the recurring kind of thing for the next several years while I was there. Then I went and moved my mother. And that didn't last long, a couple years, getting in a lot of trouble. I ended up getting expelled from the school district.

I was in then for fighting. I was actually on in-house suspension, which was my ninth in-house suspension in-house suspension in-week. Or my ninth suspension in 10 weeks. They stopped even sending me home. They just put me in this, like, closet with my homework and say, here's a desk, here's your homework. It was like precursor to prison, bro. It was just like prison for a kid.

I hated it. And I went to go use the bathroom. I'm in eighth grade. And while I go to use the bathroom, this kid, this semi-crippled kid named Dave, I can't believe I remember his name, good-looking kid, but he got hit by truck, so he limped really bad. And he was actually really muscle-bound, though. Really good genetics, muscle-bound kid.

Well, these two older kids were. He was a seventh grader, and these two other kids were beating him up in the bathroom when I walked in. They were just beating him up, and this kid was not, like, first of all, he was no pump. He'd fight. Second of all, but he wasn't a troublemaker. He wasn't cocky. He wouldn't mess with nobody. He wasn't, you know, a douchebag.

For these guys to be beating up this kid, they're just straight up bullying. And so, again, I snap on these guys. Now me and this kid, Dave, the cripple kid, are in the bathroom fighting these dude. Boom, boom, boom. We're banging around, crash, boom, boom, boom. The teacher across the hall hears it. in and breaks it up, and anyways, I ended up getting expelled, right? But when they went to call my mother to tell me, we can't have this kid anymore, man.

They couldn't get a hold of her because she was in a mental institution. She had a nervous breakdown. And so me and my sister, who was 16 at the time, were living together alone. I was 14 and she was 16. My mom was literally locked in a mental institution. We didn't tell everybody. Why? what was the specific reason was there a reason she had a nervous breakdown they call it

where she she just lost it she was standing in front of the bank with one of my baseball trophies telling people that I am the son of a king and just really just you know she was just lost it man lost it my dad broke her mind my dad uh which is ironic because my dad's a total douchebag right and uh and I don't know how she ever fell because my mother was the sweetest nicest lady just a sweet i don't know how she felt for such a douchebe but um but anyways yeah so they they locked her up in a straight jacket took her away and uh so then they called they couldn't get a hold my mom they called her emergency contact which was her parents and her parents were like well we can't take you um i guess they could have but they said um uh they called my dad they said

george you got to take the kids so i go to live with my dad now my dad is an alcoholic drunk douchebag right he my sister can drive i have to change schools because i'm 14 years old but my sister has her driver's license in a cheap little omni piece of junk car well she's able to drive to her old schools you know because my dad lived in a different city he's only a couple miles away but it's a different city so my sister was able to stay in the same school and keep going she was a cheerleader she was beautiful and all the boys liked her but now i got to start at a new school where nobody knows me right and uh so i had a second day of school i get in a fight uh like we ended up being i got into it with a dude but then like the fifth day of school i got in a

fight with the second toughest kid in the school we fought for like 10 minutes man and uh i finally i finally finally beat him like i broke his nose and uh but barely barely he was a tough kid his name's craigsechecky and um and that gave me a lot of respect in the school people were like oh this new kids you know ain't like no punk you know what i'm saying he's He just whooped crags the check. But I was a mess. I literally did nothing that entire school year, no assignments. I was a troublemaker.

I started smoking. I got introduced to weed. I started selling a little weed. I failed, bro. I'm not joking. This is going to, when people hear the entire story, it'll be kind of like, holy crap. Like you came as far as I fail eighth grade. You can't imagine how embarrassing that is, the fail eighth grade.

Like, you know what I'm saying? All my friends, the few friends that I had made, are all. going to high school next year. Not me. I'm going back to have school with the seventh graders who are now eighth grade. I will preface this really remarkable, unbelievable element. There was a girl who went to my school. I'll get to her later. Who was in that second year I was in eighth grade. It was her first year in eighth grade. She ended up failing too. We were in the same hallway, in the same class of about 100 kids in eighth grade. I never met her and I would meet her. I would encounter her 25 years later and wait until you hear who she is. Anyways, I get kicked out of eighth grade

a second time. By this point, my second time in eighth grade, I'm 15 years old and now I'm starting to sell week. Why? Let me explain this. My dad is not feeding me, though. So he's not giving me any food. He makes one meal a day. It's about 8 o'clock at night. You might get some crackers or bull oatmeal or some stale something he still lives like this today he only buys like my guys with a quarter million more than that he's got a quarter million cash he's 80 years old and he buys all the marked down food at the grocery store that they're going to throw out he buys it for like a nickel he's just that's the kind of guy he is and so i was starving now at the time i had a home boy who had a cousin who sold weed that's who we bought weed from you know you buy an eighth

weed or quarter ounce of weed smoke a little weed and i remember the dude saying to me one day he saw me i had a troop jacket now my mother was nice my mother whenever she'd get her welfare check or she did uh when she was lucid and stable she worked as an um a teacher and it's just an substitute teacher so she had a little bit of money and she asked me what i wanted for my birthday and so she bought me a troop jacket do you remember troop back in the day very expensive leather jackets They're kind of famous because people were getting killed for them, you know, in the city. Like, the game, the rappers wore, and L.L. Cool, Jay, had one name. I'm in Tampa, Florida. There was no leather jackets.

Like, we had like a member-only jackets or something. Yes, yes, yes. No, you wouldn't have. But up there, off in Chicago, Detroit, New York, these troop jackets were a big deal. There were like $350. My mom bought me one. So the dude said to me one day when I was over there buying bag wheat, you ever want to sell that coat. I'll buy it. I'll give you a half ounce a week. So here's where it gets interesting. There's a black friend named Sydney. He lived in projects, an all-black ghetto. And me and my boys would go over there and hang out with them, and his cousins and brother were crack dealers.

This was back in the height of the 80s crack epidemic, right? So we would drive over there on our mopeds, and we'd hang out in his house and smoke a joint, and just me and this black dude. His brother and cousin would come in, they're older. And they'd say, yo, you know, Al. And they called me Elle. You know, my name is Lonzo or Allen.

He's called me, like, Elle, some of that weed, that good weed, you know, because they were like, you white boys always got the good weed, man. We can't get, all we get is the brown dirt weed, and that I sell you a joint or two. Like, no, send me the bag. I'm like, nah, bro, I'm not selling my bag, you know what I'm saying? But I'll sell you a joint here or there. Or it'd smoke a joint with them, right? But they were like, their friends would come in. Like, I'd sell them a joint, and like 20 minutes later, they'd walk in with five new, they were all crack dealers.

They'd sit on the corner right on the bar. block and just like then crap heads would pull up and how many let me get forward it boom and it went it was day and night 24-7 they had lookouts of a cop came they'd fricking they'd all run and uh the cops the police station was like a mile away that's the irony anyways they'd come in there and they're like yo man sell me that bag we and they pull out like 800 bucks thousand bucks you know they did not i'll give you 50 bucks for that bag i know it ain't worth 50 bucks and like nah man I just want to keep my bag and a couple times I sold it right when one day I went in my refrigerator when I was starving just starving I had I bought this piece of shit

moped that's just junk moped like the throttle cable was broken so you'd pull a cable and if you touch the brake while touching the cable at the same time you got shocked it was shocking so like it was just junk I said to myself I'm starving I could sell I could sell this jacket for a half ounce of weed to that dope dealer and then flip this sack to these black crack dealers in the ghetto. That was my thing. I'm going to drive to the ghetto with this half ounce. So now I drive across two cities on this piece of junk moped. I don't even have enough gas to get back.

This is a good story. I go to this house thinking, I'm hoping this dope dealer's at the house. I pull up, his car's not there. He had two cars, though, Mustang and a lowrider. The low rider was gone. But there's a different little rider there. And I know it belongs to this young kid who covered in gold. And I'm assuming he's a big dope dealer.

I'm knocking a door and they're like the guy, these guys are older. They're like 21, 22. They only know me as their cousin's young friend, like a little like a little punk-ass kid, right? And I knock on the door and they're like, yeah, what's up, what do you need? They're expecting me to say, well, I need an eighth or a quarter, you know, a week, you know, I'm trying there to buy a bag. And I said, I'm looking for Joe. And he's like, well, he's not here. I'm like, well, but I got to.

sack and I'm like well I want to front me something he's like whoa I can't do that you know I'm saying you have to talk to Joe he said well I said he wanted to buy my jacket for a half ounce I was gonna he's like I drove all this way and he's like ah that's between you and him when's he gonna be back could be ours and I looked through the door and there's about four of them they're playing Nintendo in the couch four young hostels right and the one kid I'm not joking he's a little red-headed kid he's got gold chains that he looks like slick Rick the rapper dude back in the day big huge rings, big huge bracelet.

Dude's dreamt in gold. And he's got a $50,000 a white lowrider truck in the driveway. I assumed he was the plug. So I say to that dude through the door, the one guy's in the door, but I said, hey man, to the dude. I said, can I talk to you? And the guy's like, me? I said, yeah, can I talk to you for a second? What's up?

I said, out here, look, you know, in private. So the guy said, it looks weird, like, you know, whatever. So he opens the door and he steps outside. I said, over here, you know, we walked on the driveway. I said, hey, man, listen, bro, I'm starving, dude. You know, I said, I know you're the man, bro. I got this jacket. Joe said he gave me a half ounce for him, man.

You give me half ounce. I know you to plug. I know you're the man. He looks at me crazy. He said, why would you think I'm the plug? I said, bro, I'm young, but I'm not an idiot, dude. I'm saying, look at you. You got $20,000 in jewelry on and a $50,000 role rider.

You're 19-year-old kid. You know what I'm saying? He kind of looks at me. I said, my mom bought me this jacket for $350. like three months ago man I'll give it to you for a half ounce it's 75 bucks I said you know and I can flip it I'm just hungry and he's why I said my dad don't feed me I'm starving going to eat one meal a day you know I play sports and baseball and I'm just starving and he looks at me and he goes your mom bought you that jet you don't give me that jet in your mom I said

yeah man I'm willing and I say I got these black crack dealers down in the panic zone I tell them where it is Oxford Square he knows where it is I said they'll buy all the weed I got i can bring whatever they'll buy it up like that he kind of thinks about it says keep your jacket man follow me so he jumps in his car i follow him on my moped we go three or four blocks i go to his house i we go to his bedroom he just lives in the neighborhood it's not a fancy house or nothing like that his mom's watching like you know soap opera and we walk in his bedroom's pretty nice go in his closet there's a safe he opens us big safe and he's like got 10 pounds a week which to me is like oh my god 10 pounds of weed you're kidding most that i ever

seen was like an ounce. You know what I'm saying? He pulls out a pound and he says the triple beam's on the counter. He says, way a quarter pound. I'm like, I don't know how to use that triple beam, man. And he says, you don't even know how to use the triple beam? I said, no. So he weighs a quarterbound and he hands it to me. He says, listen, I'm going to give you this for 700 bucks. That's kind of a high price. But if you sell it, flip it, you make two, 300 bucks. If you do good, I'll hook you up. We'll give you a better price. He says, you burn me, man. You know what I'm saying? It's game over. He says, go through the plum pit. This is a head shop on Grashit.

It says, buy you a hand scale. They're like five bucks. He must have saw the look at my face when I said, oh, man. He says, you only got five bucks? I said, no. So he pulls a knot of money out. He has him ten bucks. And he says, go buy a scale.

Wear your bags heavy. If you weigh the bags heavy, maybe a half gram over, people will come back and buy more bags and you'll get in the game. So I did that. I went home. I called the same cousin Johnny that I mentioned earlier. And I said, hey, man, I'm about. to go into the panic zone to flip some weed to these black crack dealers, man, but I need you

to have my back. Bring your gun. I knew we had a gun because he stole it from his dad, or he found it. It was his dad's gun. His dad was in prison serving 25 years. Dad was a mobster, right? Doing life under 25 years in prison. Where he's digging around his dad's stuff, he found his 44 revolver, big freaking revolver. I said, bring that gun. He had a nice moped, and he lived like, he lived like 10 miles from me, so it's a long ways on a moped. Bring the gun and let's go. So we go to the ghetto, And I get Sidney and his cousins, the black dudes who are friends of mine, I said, listen, come with me out in the square. There's like a basketball court and some picnic tables and stuff

and tell all these crack dealers, man, that I got the sack. I got the good green weed, right? And Johnny's going to sit there with the gun. He's going to have my back, because they would have robbed me in a second. You know what I'm saying? If I would have posted up out there without my cousin and the gun, I would have been robbed within five minutes. They would have just took the sack and that would have been in it.

I was a hundred pound kid, you know, and that was it. But because he was there with that gun, they were like, well, what's up with your homeboy, man? Him and that gun, man. What does the thing is John Wayne? I'm like, I just got my back. It's it. I sold out that whole sack, a quarter pound sack in like four hours there, and I made like $260. I took $260, went to the grocery store, loaded up on groceries, stuff my refrigerator and coverage with it.

My dad came on. Where'd all this food come from? I said, it's mine, don't touch it, which is exactly what he would tell me. It's mine. I'd see something in the fridge or food. I said, Dad, what's this in here? Can I have this? That's mine.

it. So now I'm like, okay, this is mine, you don't touch it. And then I started selling weed and I started cranking and I started getting so much traffic at my house and that I had to like start having homeboys sell weed for me, you know, and I got them beepers and did all the, you know, the thing. Because the next day when I called that drug dealer, I said I flipped the whole quarter pound. He couldn't believe it. He was like you flipped the whole thing in a day. I said, yeah. He says, come on, I'm going to pick you up. He picks me up, drives me to this telecommunications store, gets me a beeper, gives me a bunch of cards, and he schools me to the game. This is what you do.

Hand out your business card. Do you do that, do you don't deal with any. This is how you avoid narcs. You know, don't deal with people you don't know. Don't let anybody introduce people you don't know. This is how to look for a narcs. And so I got in the game. Six months later, I got 10 guys working for me.

10 guys. And I'm probably making, you know, probably 2,000 a week, right? I go to high school the next year. But first of all, I get expelled from eighth grade, indefinitely, for punching my teacher in the face. Or my principal, excuse me. It's long story, but there was a concert, and in the concert they threw a nurse football, and I dove to catch it. And when I dove to catch it, I need some girl in the face. I hurt two or three people.

Like, I was such a spas that when they threw the football, I'm like, over here, and he threw it. I dove into the crowd over from the top of the bleachers, and I, like, crushed, like, five people and, like, busting some girls. girl in the ears, she's crying. The principal calls me out in the hallway. He goes, what the else's wrong with you? He punches me in the face. My assistant principal, this Asian dude, Cousnia, we all thought he knew karate because he was Asian, stocky Asian dude. He's stocky. And he's like, what the ass wrong with you? Bam! And he hits me. I'm, what the thing? You can't hit me, Matt, bang, hit him back. You're out of here. Get the fuck out of here. They did. They expelled me, and that was it. So the last four or five months of eighth grade, I wasn't even in school.

I was too young for adult ed. I couldn't even go to adult end. You had to be 16 to be an adult ed. So I just basically stayed at home and sold dope and ran around the neighborhood. Started selling acid and mescaline and a little bit of and running around. I'm just hustling, man. I'm grinding. By the time I turn 16, I get a car, I trick it out. I got kickers in it. I got four-wheeler. I got dirt bikes. I got all this crap in the garage. I'm hustling. Even my dad's like, how are you getting all this money? I told him I was a loan shark. That's what my, that's what my Uncle Pete told me to tell him. He's like, if your dad, you know, because I said, my dad's pressing me about the money.

Where am I getting these toys and crap I'm buying? He said, tell me you put money on the street. I'm like, what is that? He said, you loan money and they pay you back. And I said, all right, you can't prove them not. So, and then I get to ninth grade or last 10 weeks, an idiot. I got in a couple of fights. That's a strike one, two.

What else? I think I got busted smoking, we in the bathroom. And then finally, one of my, I don't know. my best friends, a scumbag named Ricky, whose brother was a mob guy, like grow up and be a mad guy who actually got indicted in the Rico case, 96. He was stealing from lockers, man. He was breaking in the locker stealing, and he stole a jacket. He told me, he said, I'll trade you this jacket for a half ounce of weed. It's like a $300 dollar dollar jacket. I said, you didn't steal this jacket. He says, no, I didn't steal it. My brother gave it to me. He grew

out of it and gave it to me, but I'll give it to you for a half ounce of weed. I said, you didn't steal it? He said, no. So I take it, I wear it to school. The kid who he stole it from sees me wearing it, tells the cops. The cops come in, they swarm in, they take me in the office, and they're questioning me. I said, I bought it from a guy in the corner. Who? I won't tell them. So they charged me with receiving and concealing stolen property and interfering with a police investigation because I wouldn't rat on my friend, right? So they expelled me. I'm out, boom, out of school indefinitely. So I did go to adult ed on and off over the next few years, but basically from that point out, I just dove into the streets and that was there.

that um then around 16 17 years old about 16 and a half i was real skinny like and i started hanging around these kind of these kids from high school who played football and they like this tough crew of kids my boy gino pat posto jay they're all like football players you know big muscle-bound kids and they're we made a good crew we're all tough guys and like we were a wrecking crew like my little like sophomore crew could whoop like 90% of all the seniors you know what and everybody knew that and so they were kind of scared about not everybody we're getting them all the older seniors some of them were there were some tough guys too but uh so they started working out and they all the girls were on their jocks like the ones that were getting stocking

and big and muscle bound all the girls are like oh i mean out like that's like and i'm plus i'm sick of getting tried man i'm getting tried by these older bigger kids all the time so i'm having to fight and act crazy they think i'm mentally ill they literally think i'm mentally ill because I stand up to him. You know, these older bullies would try to bully me, man. Like, the biggest, toughest guy in the school was named Chris Carver. He was a big, like, bearded dude, like a big Italian-looking. I think he was Greek.

I don't know. He looked like he was like five years into an NFL contract. He was a big 220. He benched like 500 pounds in high school. But he tried to pump me one time. Twice he did. And I stood up to him once, like, the year before when I was, like, 15. And then, like, a week into my high school.

He tried to, he, like, shove me and walking down the hall. Bang, he just shoved me, punk, like this. And I'm like, I stand up to him, what's the guy I'm going to shove him? He's freaking crazy, I'll beat you, a little punk guy. I said, then do it, and I turn. Now, I'm in the middle. This is like, as school is letting out. So there's 500, 6, 800 people walking into the parking lot.

And I'm, like, squared off with this big giant dude. I'm legit 120, man. I'm 120 pounds. This dude is 225 with a beard, 18 years old, big as hell bench than 500 pounds. And I'm like, he's like, what are you going to do to me? Like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? What are you going to do do? I'll beat your ass. I said, beat it. I said, beat it. I said, you're going to do nothing. You're just talking, talk and talk down. And everyone's trying to pull me back. Come on, hell.

You're going to get yourself killed. You're going to get yourself. Get off me. I said, I don't keep up. What he done? He ain't going to do nothing. And then he said, man, listen, you ain't even worth it. Kid. You're mentally ill. That's what he said, something wrong with you, man. You ain't worth my time to squash you like an aunt. I said, yeah, man, well, let's see. So when I did that, everybody thought it was crazy. And anyways, they, and when they busted me for the freaking stolen property, they expelled me. I'm in the street. So I get the selling, I start getting involved in the steroid. That was my point of telling you that was, I was tired of having to get tried by bigger,

older kids. And I wanted to look better for the girls because I was real skinny, man. I was like a little skinny, wiery, freaking, like 120-pound kid. not a good looking kid I don't think I was very good looking kid either so I wanted to text so I started working out and I started investigating steroids and you know

to get in the game and I go to my uncle Pete the mob dude or he's kind of connected to mob bags I said um you know you got some you know any plugs for steroids

he says yeah I know this guy named Joe and I'm like tells me the guy and I'm like gotta be kidding me I know that guy he works out at the gym where I've been working out at he's like yeah yeah Joe D

you know he's a big muscle bond guy and uh she said but don't know approach him, you know, I'll hook you up with somebody that goes through him. You know what I mean? At the time, the guy Joe was 29 years old. And in my mind, he was like, old, you know what I'm saying? Because I was only 17 years old.

That 29-year-old dude was an old dude. And so my uncle hooks me up with a dude. It's a whole other story. He just said, go to this guy. I approach him, this big giant mother ever named Jerry. I go through him for a while, but that guy ends up with a baseball scholarship when he leaves. Goes to California to play baseball. So now I lose my steroid plug.

And by the way, I'm making good money on steroids, though. I'm like, I'm freaking, I'm probably making, you know, $1,000 a week on steroids. Plus, you know, $2,000 a week on the weed. So I'm doing good. I'm hustling. I got a new car with kickers and tinted windows, rins, and all the toys and gold. I'm bawling out for a kid, you know, 17-year-old kid. And then so I go, I lose my plug for the steroids.

And I know the main guy is this guy named Joe D. so I just walk up to him in the gym one day. I said, Joe, can I have a word with you? By the way, I am the smallest guy in the gym. I am not kidding. I am the smallest guy in the gym. This is, by the way, the most steroid-infested gym in American history. That's what the newspaper said.

The newspaper said, this gym was the most steroid-infested gym in America. I didn't know that, but there was all these giants in there, so it made sense. So I said, Joe, can I have a word with you? I was it in a bathroom. So I said, hey, man, I think you know my Uncle Pete. He says, I said, Pete Tocco, he said, Pete Tocco, this guy, and I said, no, that's another Pete Tocco, a cousin. I said, no, Pete Tocco, Jr. this one.

He said, oh, yeah, he's got a, like, a bunch of sisters. I said, yeah, one of them is my mother, my mother, my mother, Grace. He says, okay, yeah, you know, Pete, good guy, got that. I said, listen, man, you know, Jerry, he said, yeah, yeah, I said, who went away to school, he was getting something from you for me, and so now I can't, you know, and he said, what were you getting? I'm like, you know, some of those bottles of tests and cypinating, da-da-da-da-da. He's like, all right, listen, I know your uncle.

I know Jerry, good guy. I'll ask Jerry. He said, here's my number. Give me a call. Call and say, you want to use the tanning bed. If I say, yes, come over, we'll do it. So I go to his house. He's dealing with a couple mob dudes like there, these big giant dudes.

He tells me to wait in this like an inch room. He's got a nice house. I'm sitting there like this, little kid, you know, I'm a little 50 again. I dress real nice. I'm trying to be respectful, you know. Like, I put a suit on. I'm trying to because in my mind

the guy was like like high level mob guy because in my mind it really wasn't but in my mind he was because he was

this old Italian hustler and I'm just assuming that he was part of the mafia so I put out like a really nice

outfit on dress around and he tells me waiting this ante room and also these two giant dudes come

walking out and he says hey he says see this that's Pete Tocco's nephew and they have

these two big dudes oh hey I know Pete and shake my hand nice to me you this giant mother effort

It's like seven footers. And I would get to know who those guys were, too. I sold them growth in steroids later on. So he invites me, and he says, what are you trying to get in his office? And he opens, there's a big giant safe, huge safe. And he opens a safe. And I swear it was one of those moments where you hear the music, like the, oh, like the hallelujah, oh, the safe. It's got like 15,000 bottles of testosterone and steroids in there.

Like the whole thing just packed. And there's a bunch of weed in there and some guns. He said, what are you trying to get? I'm like, well, you know, it just depends what you have. He's like, here's what you do, man. Take whatever you want. And then just when you sell it, give me the money. I said, like, I couldn't believe it was that easy.

You know what I thought I was going to have to give him 500 bucks up front and take it. He's like, no, just take 5,000 work. I'm like, what are these? And these bottles I sell for 120 bucks. He's like, yeah, 25 bucks. I'm like, are you kidding? And so I'm like, oh, I was like, because Jerry, the guy was getting from was charged me like 75 bucks. So Jerry was making 50 on each box.

Now I'm making like 75. It was just crazy. So I get a big bag. of it and walk out and this goes on for the next several months don't know that joe is under a huge fbii investors like they're they're on him though they got his phone tap his house is under surveillance they got us all coming and going it's over for joe 55 guys eight different states three different countries hundreds of millions of doses is what they say there are hundreds of millions of doses It's like one pills a dose or one bottles, 10 doses, whatever.

And anyways, I end up selling, well, what ends up happening is one day I go to the gym, there's just somber, everybody's looking at me. Everybody knows I'm a drug dealer and everybody knows I'm tied to this guy Joe. They all know by now because I'm cool with them in the gym and all these guys are being nice to me. I'm this kid. I'm starting to blow up. Now I'm getting kind of bigger.

I'm like 18 years old. And all these big steroid giant, you know, mob tied dudes are real nice to me. So the people who work there know I walk in one day and they're like, you know, you hear about Joe? I'm like, what? And he's like, last night you didn't know. He got raided. They arrested him last night. And I'm like, yeah, they're like, yeah, it's all in the paper.

It's all over the news, bro. It's like all over. I'm like, oh, you've got to be kidding. So I freak out. And then I go look in the newspaper and sure enough, this is all this, the big bust of the covering it, you know, steroid rings, organized crime, yada, yada, yada. I'm like, oh, crap, man. two days later um the uh two two narcotics task force cops come to my house and arrest me and it was for you're on the indictment not the indictment though so so so what it was is some some scumbags

set me up and introduced me to a cop and i sold two hand-to-hand deliveries to a local narcotics task force and so they they got me for two hand-to-hand sales five thousand dollars each so they came in arrested and then I get because they waited to arrest me until after they did the sweep on the

Fed indictment they didn't run a rattle in the cage or whatever so after I get arrested I bond out not a big deal bonds only like 20 grand

so I pay a bond for the two grand I get out you know the cops were pretty cool they're like you know you're a kid man

they're not gonna friggin burn you probably not could go to prison for this da da da da die I get you a lawyer fight it you know I'm then

Of course, they were like, you want to cooperate? I'm like, no. And then, so that was that. But then a few days after I was arrested, this FBI agent comes to my house. And, dude, he's got this ledger. This is the crazy part. Joe, the main plug, whenever you take, you know, let's say I took $5,000 for the bottles of whatever. He kind of coded, but he put your name.

Well, you put your initials, A-L. Well, my name is L. Everybody calls me Al. And I call it, what's up, this is L. He puts A-L in his ledger. And then he puts what you took in that ledger. So he's got this ledger. Now the FBI guy shows up my house This big tall mother offer. He tells me I'm agent such and such and I'm and I know where you're going. So I invite him in. He sits down at the table and he says, okay, I got the ledger. I know who you are. We've watched you come and go. We've, you know, when you heard conversations, you know, we know what you were doing. So I have two ls in this ledger in this book. One was getting like $100,000, $200,000. with drugs at a time.

One was only getting, you know, $5,000 at a time. And I'm like, yeah, I'm the little guy. You know, I'm like, I'm just selling to my high school buddies and, you know, football players, high school kids at the gym. You know, I'm not a freaking, I'm not a freaking, I'm not, I said, well, we figured that, you know, we wanted to verify. I said, so am I going to get indicted or am I in any trouble? And he says, well, you know, you may be hearing back from us.

I said, okay, but they never came back. They didn't care of this small fish and a big. bomb and so I did get six months in the county jail that's a whole nother story I fought the case for the steroid delivery for 18 months I got a good lawyer all the money I could afford the weird thing was was at the time when the steroid bus happened like a couple of weird things happened like one I got arrested for steroids and that you know rattled a lot of my clientele from the weed. I broke my beeper. I had a ninja at the time. I had a crotch rocket. And I'm flying down the street. I used to drive that thing. Flippin maniac. And my beeper fell off my hip while I was doing

like 90 and it smashed and broke. And then my phone broke. My cordless phone broke. You could call out, but it couldn't ring in. So you wouldn't know if somebody was trying to call you. So all in one week my I know nobody could call me nobody could beat me and I got busted but a steroid so my whole like operation went crumbling down right so I really I still had some weed customers and I was making you know a thousand bucks a week but I went from like making 3,000 a week to like 800 a week it was bad news for me but uh and now I'm fighting a case so I got to kind of lay low too because the cops are watching me and they were they were following me they were staking out my house they were watching me they were trying to give me I was nobody but they were still trying to get me

so then I did this lawyer he don't really work that hard they said based on my just so you know by this point I had already like eight felony I had eight felonies by the time this I'm facing this charge got busted with some pipe bombs some mob guy tried to well he didn't but he paid me three thousand bucks to go up a nightclub not while anyone's in it they just said go there at five in the morning bust the window while throw a pipe bomb and send him a message he paid me I got busted it with the pipe bombs before I could do it. So after I got bonded out on that and fighting that case, I still had to go bomb up the nightclub. I still did it. I still did it. I still did it do it, which was crazy. But I had, I had that case.

I had three assaults, three felonious assaults, just whooping mother efforts when I got out of control, receiving and concealing, avoiding the interfering with police investigation. I had a destruction of property. I had a felony. So when the prosecutor saw all the. these felons felonies on my record i'm 17 years old now i got the steroid thing they're like this kid's got to go to prison but keep in mind all it sounds reasonable it sounds reasonable right right

so you keep in mind like my uncles and all these old mob dudes they're completely abreast of all this like they're you know they're very uh social people the sicilian and they call and talk and they they're all retired so all they do was talk they call they talk they visit they hang out they play cards smoke cigarettes. They literally played cards or botchy ball every freaking day in the summer. I mean, they're just always together. Oh, my grandson got arrested again. My grandson got another felony. My grandson got arrested. And again, again. So all these old men, they'd see me and they'd be like, you know, Alonzo, how are you doing? I heard you got trouble. I heard you got trouble. I heard you got trouble. And that's not even counting the amounts of times I got

arrested for driving out suspended. Dude, I had 19 of those just in my city, though. 19 driving on suspenders in my dad. My grandparents are bonding me out all the time. Anyways. You're like a source of entertainment for them. Not really. What's going on? No.

I'll tell you what I want. I think it was bad. I was a source of embarrassment, though. Oh, really? I thought they would think that it was kind of comical. No, no, this is embarrassing for them. I'm very, very disappointing. Because you've got to remember, most of these old mob guys, they had kids and grandkids.

They didn't raise them to be gangsters. and criminals. They raised them to be college-educated professionals. They put them in business. They seeded their professional businesses and got them out of the life. You know, the only ones that got involved in the life for the losers, like myself, the ones that were this absolute dummies, you know. And even Jack Toko, who's the boss of the mafia, he was college educated.

He went to U of D Mercy, where my mother went. And, you know, he had a college degree in business. There are several of them. The underboss also had a degree in business. So these guys, they saw me as just a freaking screw-up scumbag idiot, you know. And, of course, my grandparents were like, oh, you know. And all these other kids, they grew up in this high-falutin neighborhood. Lots of them were good in school.

They would go out into college after high school, good grades, and they'd get degrees, and then they would not make their parents, would cede their business, and they'd have a new success. And the whole time, I'm arrested in jail and fighting and knocking all that for us out and breaking my jaw at my finger on some of these faces. Anyways, so my grandpa ends up bribing the judge to not put me in prison. They wanted to put me in prison because of this behavior, this bad behavior. So my uncle tells me I'm starting to worry, I'm going to go to prison.

I'm fighting it for 18 months and keep postponing it because they want to, they're offering me plea agreements of time. So my grandfather goes, meets the judge who happened. happens to be a Sicilian. His name is Judge Jeanette, but his real name is Genetti. And he changed his name to Jeanette to take the Italian connotation off. And so he went to him and said, I don't want my grandson to go to jail. There's 10 grand or prison. And so he said, all right, they sent to me to six months in the county jail.

I do the county jail. Now, my grandpa never admitted to this, but my uncle told me. My older uncle, my uncle Sal said, you know, grandpa paid 10 grand to keep you out of prison. and you owe them a lot. You better act right, you know. Hey, real quick, just wanted to let you guys know that we're looking for guests for the podcast. If you think you'd be a good guest, you know somebody. Do me a favor.

You can fill out the form. The link is in our description box. Or you can just email me directly. Email is in the description box. So back to the video. So here's what my life takes a pretty big turn. I go to jail, get out, boom. Before I went to jail, I was live with two of my cousins.

We had a house in Detroit. There were two steroided out. had everybody was using drugs everybody was partying there was girls coming it was just a bad environment man I didn't want to go back to that environment you know just as bad so I said to my grandparents can I live with you they said yes I get out and I live with them again this puts me right in the direct line of fire of these old mobsters that my grandfather talks to you every day and he sees in the market every day or he goes to play poker with every day or whenever they're always around his eyes start going bad my grandfather got a couple car accidents

So I insist, but Grandpa, why don't you let me drive you? If you got to go somewhere, if you got to see Gumbadi Pauly or Gombardi Jack or Gubadi, whoever, I'll drive. She says, okay. So I'm driving him to meet these guys. They speak in Sicilian, so I don't really know what they're saying, but there's a lot of shady crap going on. And, of course, they stopped talking, they look at me, and they say, what happened at the Joe's joint the other day? Joe Scroy. He owns a bunch of nightclubs.

I heard you got another fight. And I said, yeah, and busted the place up pretty good. They start asking me questions, and I'm like, so they're like feeling me out. Then one day, this is a few weeks after I get out of jail, I go to my cousin's graduation party, and I've told this story. But in a nutshell, Tony Jackaloney, who is the street boss of the Detroit Mafia, I didn't know him well. All I know is that I was introduced to him as an uncle. He was an uncle. My mother said, oh, it's your uncle, Tony Jack.

Now, I was a little kid, you know, five, six years old. It's your Uncle Tony Jack. And my mother seemed super proud of the fact that, like, this is your uncle, Uncle Tony. And I'm like, another Uncle Tony. You got like five of them. I didn't care. Then he disappeared for, you know, seven, eight years. I don't see him.

Don't even think about him. Then he popped back up. Seven, eight years later, when I'm 14, 15 years old. And then I remember asked him on compete, like, whatever happened to him? Like, we haven't seen him for years just like he was in prison. So he went to prison for seven years or something like that. Oh, okay, that makes sense. Then I see him on and off here and there, and I don't pay any attention to him.

It's just another old men. All these old mob things are, they all blend together to me. I can care less. I am not obfatuated or I can care less. I'm doing my own thing. But then my grandpa says to Tony at this party, hey, Tony, you think you can get, you know, Alonzo some work. I think you can get him some work. And, but he says it in Sicilian, but I hear my name.

I hear Alonzo, because he says Alan, is my name is Alan, but he'd say Alonzo. He says, can you get along? I hear my name. And I perk up, so I'm listening. Big party, big graduation. parties. All these kids running around party. It's a big circus tent. It's a big house and Gross Point, very wealthy area. And I'm kind of like playing, dancing with my little cousins, but I hear my name, so I'll listen up. I hear him say, can you get him some work? And he says,

yeah, sure, Pete. I can probably find himself home. And my grandmother says, no, no, no, no, no, he's going to go to to college. He's going to go to college this fall. He doesn't need to work. And she's really adamant against me working with Tony. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And my grandpa says, he's still got to get a job. I want to keep him out of trouble. You know, he's good for him to get some He said, and my grandma says, no, it's slanted your head. He's not going to work. And she did not want me engaging with Tony Jack. I didn't know why.

So later on that day, I said to my grandpa in private, why is grandma so against me working with Tony? And my grandpa says, really? I said, what? He says, Tony, you know what Tony does? And I go, oh, you're trying, like, you were suggesting that kind of work. You know what I'm saying? I thought he was like, I thought he meant a real, frigging job.

You know, like doing concrete or something. I had some crap I wouldn't want to do, but I would do. So a couple weeks later, Tony calls or comes over, and he says, I got you a job. He says, go see my friend L at Brownies on the Lake. Tell him, I sent you, and that, you know, I know he needs security. So this old, like, billionaire dude owns this. He owns a whole marina. He's got the biggest shot in Michigan called Brownies on the Lake.

Now, his boat's called Brownies, too. But he owns this big nightclub on the lake called Bronny's on the lake. He's got a 5,000 square foot. deck beautiful high end like it's like just the top shelf place so i walk in there i said hey tony i said tony sent me said you need me for your head of security like i i said a play on words and like i said i didn't say uh tony said you're looking for security i said uh tony jack said you need me to be your head of security and this old man he's like tony jack's not you i'm like yeah he told me that you need me to be the head of security i'm 20 years old bro 20 years old

he says oh okay yeah yeah yeah see walks me in the back gives me a couple t-shirts these are the night you're going to work Thursday Friday Saturday whatever and it would turn out that that club is this was the most mobbed up club in the city like like all the mob dudes well all the east side ones I know there's some in the west side that I didn't really know well there are some up in Clinton College if I didn't know well but all the ones from the old neighborhood and most of the east side guys they'd come in there all the time they'd come in crewed up they're three four five these guys three, four, five, this crew, three, four, five. And they'd come up and drink and party, and they all knew I was a toko.

They all knew because a couple of my cousins who were tokos and knew I was a toko on my mother's side would say, hey, you guys, come on, I want you to meet my cousin now. They liked me because I was a tough guy. They knew I was always fighting and knocking guys out. I was a real street guy. Like, I was a real gangster that fighting and pipe bombs and, you know, arrested and jail and busted. Like, to them, I was like a real OG, like gangster.

So when they'd see me, and they'd come here to their other cousin, come to meet my cousin, Al, my cousin Al. He's a Toco, and I would, like, you know, my mother was a Toco, but my last thing is not Tocco, when they were like, whatever, you're still family, and they'd give me a kiss and a hug, and I thought that was cool. And a couple times Tony Jackaloney would come in there, and he'd stand by the door.

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there might be a couple guys in their 20s, a couple of guys in the 30s, a couple of crews in their 40s, there would be guys in the 50s. And they'd all spaced out to the place. There might be 500 people in this club. The deck would be packed with two, three, four, five hundred people. Guys would pull up on their boats and their yachts.

And I'm just a dormant. I'm nobody. I'm just a dormant. But they'd see me knock guys out. You know, they'd see me, they'd see like some dude getting tough or I'd break them up. And the guy barking in my face, I'd knock him out, bang. And I grab them and drag them out the door. So these guys were all watching me.

And anyways, I got in good with some of them. And I started selling weed to them, pounds of weed with them, and stole the merch. And I could go on and on. We'd go on about a million scams and rackets. Basically, any imaginable racket, everything from running chop shops, a flip and stolen merch to stealing boats, you know, yachts, not really yachts. They were big boats, you know, worked through 300 grand. We had a little operation stealing them.

We had a larceny ring that was breaking into really big houses and Gross Point businesses. We had a wait, we had an alarm technician that was helping us bypass the alarm. so we could break into these really high-end houses like, you know, multi-million other houses, you know? I was a crash car guy. You know what a crash car is? So I listen to the police scanner. I'd sit in the car and listen to the police scanner

and drive this old piece of junk car. And so if I hear the cops are coming, I'd radio the guys in the house. The cops are underway, get the prick out of here. They jump in the van and peel off. But if the cops, if they got, like I get behind them, and if the cops got behind, like try to chase them, I would crash my car and block the cops.

And then they'd pull up. I was like, what's happening? How did you do nothing? I was avoiding a squirrel. I'd move, swerve, and I hit this car, and my boys would get away, you know what I'm saying? So I was a cat, you know, so I was the radio guy and the crash car guy. And then I got one piece of jewelry. I actually orchestrated the whole thing.

I put it all together, the team, the safe trackers, everything. So I got one piece of jewelry. And that's how I learned watches. That's how I learned about jewelry. my uncle in a pawn shop or headpoints in a pawn shop. So I would work there sometimes. I'd go there and hang out and help people. But anyways, I learned about the value of various watches and stuff. So when we hit a score, we'd take all the merchandise to the warehouse and I would go through it and inventory it and I would like, you know, pick up a blonde jeans, platinum watch and like,

okay, that's mine. That's why I ended up with like a $50,000 watch collection at the time. And then, but anyways, it's all the crap that I did. And that lasted a while until it got hot because the newspapers were onto it, you know, local cops. They were going to get us at some point. Now, they were really keying in on our operation. So I was just like, we got to stop this. But what we were doing, that's interesting too, because we had all this stolen merch,

but we couldn't sell it in the pawn shop, fur jackets, camcorders, steroids, TVs, guns, all this stuff, because you can't sell stuff that you just stole in, like, in the same city or county in the pawn shop, because they, They have cops to audit that stuff. They'll come in there, investigators, and they'll look at it. Oh, that watch is just stolen last week and gross. So what we were doing was taking all this merch that we had stolen from Detroit area and driving it down to Chicago and giving it to some mob guys to sell in their pawn shop.

And then we were taking all their merchandise, all their stolen craft, and selling it up in Detroit in our pawn shop. And I was in charge of the inventory and had to write everything down. there was a dollar value put on everything it was the fur coat like the Chicago guys say that's worth $100 to me so so I'd have to write down you know make jet mint coat $100 then I would take it up to them and say Chicago's expecting $100 for this mint coat we sell it for 150 we make a product so I was doing all this stuff and these guys were cracking saves and there were some wild times bro these guys would go into these houses for like two three hours man and crash

around these houses look for money in safes and they couldn't get in the safe to be in their hammering away bust and they with we actually rolled safes down the front lawn four or five in the morning to the van like like rolled it out of the house it was so big and heavy just three of us stumbling around it was like a like a comedy three idiots on the front lawn trying to pick up this 500 pound save roll it into the van because in that in that safe might be a million dollars we don't know there never was a whole lot of cash but then again I was never there when they got the safes open. Only once I was there when the safes open.

And so there could have been a million dollars cash. And you're like, yeah, there's nothing in it. We worked all night to get it open, but it was 50 bucks in there or gone or whatever. So I never knew. But anyway, so move forward. My whole 20s, I was up and down. That's when I got introduced to drugs, which was partly my downfall. I got in a fight.

See my knuckle there? I broke my knuckle. I smashed this dude really bad. That's a long story I won't get into. But I really beat a guy out bad, and I kind of feel bad for it because, like it hasn't, he was never the same, which is ironic because I paid a minimum price. I broke this knuckle and had to get surgery.

They gave me Vicodins and Perkinans. I'm like, oh, I love these things, well, Vicodins and Perkinans. These things are amazing. And so I started eating pain pills, and then I was addicted to pain pills like six months. Then I went to jail for a pistol, got colored pistol, but I only got two weeks in jail. They reduced it to a misdemeanor weapons violation. Two weeks in jail is enough to get me cleaned up off the pills. I'm good.

So now I get out. I'm back in the game. I'm training. I'm, you know, next two or three years, I'm good. My best friend dies. Best friend died. That sends me over to drugs, pills, boom, boom, boom. I'm off and running for like a year.

Go to jail, get cleaned up. I'm good. A couple years go by, break my ankle. That sends me out. They give me pills. I'm off and running. And then ultimately, in the end, I'm doing really well before I get locked up I just bought my second house and I got a couple of

nice cars I got a jet ski a jet boat a dirt bike a ninja four wheelers and everything you know my house is pimped I'm pimped I started gambling that was a big mistake started gambling because my uncle told me don't don't don't have a gamble unless you're the house don't be the house so anything but else so I said I made the mistake of going to Vegas with a friend of mine who was millionaire and uh he's like yeah it's gamble and and i won bro i won i don't know if that ever happened to you but i started playing blackjack and i and i and i i don't like probably a big huh that's probably a big mistake too big mistake oh god because then you think i can win and you just keep batting and then you just keep chasing that high and i won like 14

grand now i'm like i can't believe more people aren't doing this is amazing it's easy so now i'm going back and forth in Vegas and I'm losing. I'd win, I'd lose, I'd win a couple thousand. I'd lose, but I'm losing. I lost like 75 a grand a year the last two years, which is not a tonne, but it's still a lot. It's like 150 grand over probably 18 months I lost. And I did run some poker games in the past, you know, for Tony Jackaloney. He actually had me work security at some poker games, and then I ended up scabbing his players because they cut every pot in the poker games. They like, you know, cut every pot until the dealer gets paid the game host it's big well i remember they had me work security you know at the games and i remember

recognizing these guys so it'd see them in a nightclub and i'd be like hey man you like you guys want to play my game and like what do you mean you got you got you got a game i said yeah i'm putting together a game you know but i'm only going to cut every third pot so there'd be a bigger payout and like oh this sounds great you know it's a big payout and i'm like yeah we'll have girls there you know party favors cigars drinks everything's on me it'll be a great location that so i would do that I hooked up in my boy's basement and he had a really good looking girlfriend. She's like boobs hanging out, pouring drinks, a little bit of, you know, you maybe throwing eight ball on the table and be like, enjoy, you know, drinks, whatever they want.

Spend up, they play all night and we might cut three, four, five thousand bucks out of the game. So it's easy money. One night's work, three thousand bucks. I give my boy 500 bucks for letting me have it at his house. I give his girl 500 bucks and I keep two, three, four thousand bucks, right? So, and then Tony finds out, he gets mad at me, and he tells me to stop and, like, threatens me. They don't threaten me, but he's just like, this has the end. Stop.

He warned me once, knock it off. Second time, he made me pay me all the money I cut out of the game plus a thousand. So he basically penalized me, and that's $1,000. He said, how much did you cut out of that game? I didn't even know he knew. How much you cut out of that game? I'm like, five? He's like, I'll take six.

I'm like, all right, well, I'll win. He's like, now. I don't even have it. I got like $4,500. He's like, well, I'll wait. And he says, I'll wait. I'll be here for a while. He's at my house.

He's at my house on the couch. So I got to go to my boy and borrow $1,500 to give to this old monster because he's mad at me because I scabbed his players for his game. And I pay him off. And then the third time, my grandpa says, you got to knock it off, man. Tony's mad. He's really mad. You can't do stuff like that. He didn't talk to him for a year.

Tony, he didn't talk to me for a year. But then he got me out of some trouble a year later, which was cool. And he liked me, man. You knew it took balls to do what I was doing. Like, he even said to me a bunch of times, he had me beat guys up. He paid me to freaking beat guys up. He had all these bookies working for him in the street. He was the king of the book in loan sharks.

Tony probably had, I'm not joking, he probably had probably 25, 30 bookies that worked for him and probably as many loan sharks. He controlled this massive empire. He also controlled the drugs in Detroit. You may have heard of Frank Usher. You heard of Black Mafia family, 50 Cent made it. So the precursor of Black Mafia. family was Frank Usher. It's actually based on this dude named Frank

Nitty Usher. That was Tony Jackaloney and Billy Jackaloney's protege. This black kid, they brought him up, taught him to be a mobster. They taught him how to structure his organization like a mafia family. The whole thing, he's everything. So then when he got older, they gave him a bunch of dope. You know what I mean? When he got to be 17, 18 years old and said build your organization like ours mafia family and you're the boss and you have your honor boss and then you have your street guys and you have your capitals and your soldiers lieutenants and here's the dope and you give it out to them you protect yourself through this insulation and that and so tony jack had the whole black dope game on lot he paid a million dollars to get uh frank usher

out of prison paid a million bucks but anyways he had all these bookies and so he would tell me once and a while I get a call. It wasn't like I was this regular guy, but once in a while he would say, I have a problem, you know, call this guy and I have a job for you. That's what he said. I have a job for you. So I didn't know what that might mean. Then I go meet a guy and he's a bookie and some guy was giving him a problem paying money. The guy might owe him $10,000. He's like this freaking guy, he's a young guy like you, he thinks he's a tough guy. You don't want to pay me or he's avoiding me or whatever. You know, you get him. He's a young guy like you, he's them to pay I'll give you 10% of whatever you get okay so I would get them to pay I would

always get the guys to pay and I wasn't like putting guns to the guy's heads or nothing like that although there was a couple of situations but it was usually um where I would just be like hey man dude these guys you owe money for you and this is serious business bro you can't just hide from the mafia I'm saying this guy you owe these guys money you got to pay up you're in big trouble now you're putting your family at risk and stuff like that you got to you got to pay I'm like, what do you got? You got any assets? You got a rich aunt, something.

You got a car or a boat, something. You can sell something. And so I had guys sell everything from coin collections to sailboats to gun collections, whatever they could, whatever they had. I also had guys go right to their wealthy relatives and just say, you know, I'm in trouble. I owe the mob money. I'm in trouble. Can you help me? they did. And then I, but that got me in trouble a couple times. That almost got me

invited by the ATF because I took a guy's gun collection and then sold the guns to a bunch of black dope dealers and then they got raided and then they said, white kid, the tribe like me, sold them the guns and then they go, well, the kid, the son of the, of the son of the guy whose guns originally belonged to, it was a white kid that fit that description. So they went to the kid and said, did you sell your dad's guns? And he said, no, this dude named Al, you know, made me pay my, give him my dad's guns to pay a debt. El who? I don't know his last name, but this is what he looks like. And then they give him a description and a picture. This guy? Yeah, that's him. So now I'm like, they're looking for me. They're trying to put an indictment together on me. I run

in New York and I hide for a couple years in New York until my uncle and his people are able to convince that kid the main witness to recant his testimony and say no I'm lying it wasn't this dude Al

I sold my dad's guns the dude Al had nothing to do with it I was just trying to make him the scape go blah blah blah and then the indictment was thrown out or never you know unsealed or whatever it was and that was a close call man because I would have got cooked for them because some of those guns by the way ended up with bodies you know what I'm saying like the gun

because it was a $20,000 gun collection and I took the and I had a freaking gun bizarre like a gun auction at a big at a dope house in Detroit I unloaded this van 20,000 of the guns that told the black dudes who were my boys I said call all your boys tell them come over here with the cash to buy these guns and then I'm like I'll give you 600 for that I'm like give me 700 for that AR and just to the, and just bang, bang, bang, bang. And I sold almost all. Plus, I kept a bunch, of course, but I sold almost all those guns in like two days, you know.

And then over the next, you know, six months, some of those guns were busted, you know, raids and were tied to bodies, you know what I'm saying? And so then they, when they finally traced it back to the origins of those guns, was this some, like, 45-year-old dude who lives a war in Michigan, like, yo, how did your guns? Well, the guy reported him stolen. That's what he did. that's how we got them we took the guns put them in a van left said we kicked the door in made it look like it was a robbery and i said now i report the gun stolen and you can get insurance money and you'll collect the insurance money you're all good so they went back but when the cops when the cops asked the black dudes where you got the guns they said i got them from a white kid and then they were like well that's funny because the guy who these guns originally belonged to had a son who was a 20 year old white kid so they're like that started and then the kid but then the kid but then the kid but they're like that's funny

blamed on me anyways around um 20 or 29 years old i lose it man i lose it i between my best friend dying breaking my ankle i'm on pills i'm gambling i'm living beyond my means i just bought this house can't afford the lifestyle i'm living option the best option would have been is just like to rehab you know what i'm saying would have just check myself into rehab and be like all right you know i'm just got to get my life together but um i had just i had just started a company believe it or not I started a home improvement like a contractor business and it was doing good and making money I was doing good but I was just too out there man originally what this is what happened 18 months before I go to prison my house gets raided because my girlfriend's crackhead

brother sets me up he tells the cops I got a bunch of in the house which I didn't I had a bunch of in the house but not a bunch of in he walked in because he didn't have a car and he was living there and I didn't hear him pull up because he walked the store to get cigarettes. He just opened the door. And I got $40,000 on the table, and I'm counting it. He sees it. He goes, hell, man, I know you're freaking selling, bro. Put me in the game.

This is a crackhead. I hate the kid. I'm like, I'm not selling crap. This is loan shark money, but this is gambling money or whatever it is. I lie. He's like, I know you got coke, bro. I know you're selling coke. We get in an argument like the next day he'd get disrespectful.

I punch him in the face. I give him a blackout, right? He goes to the cops. He goes up to the gas. station calls the police system. My brother-in-law is selling. I've seen it. It's in the house right now. If you raid the house, you'll find it. On his testimony, and this is a crackhead who's been arrested 50 times, a scumbag. This guy's been in and out of prison his whole life. This is a horrible witness. They raided my house, and they find a bunch of, almost two kilos in

and a lot of hair, and a gun and some steroids and some pills, right? Analog pills, why can you but the house is in my girl's name the dope is not there's no possession of me and the dope there's no fingerprints of me in the dope I never touch the dope without gloves on they don't arrest me bro this is how dirty the cops are man

they don't arrest me because they want me to look like a rat they know what they're doing this is how dirty the cops are they leave an affidavit on the table and says we are here and this is what we seize if you'd like to talk to a sabbatical I call them I said you know I don't know what happened you raided my girlfriend's house, but you got my name on an affidavit about some stuff that you took.

I don't know what you took. I don't know what's here. But my girlfriend and her brother live here. I don't live here. You want to come down and talk to us. Do I bring my lawyer? No, there's no charges. We're waiting on lab results, blah, blah, blah.

He said, any email, no, you don't need your lawyer. So I go down there. They want me to rat. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. I said, no, you got no case, man. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, dude, because I had an old car in the driveway, an old Corvette project car. right that your car was in the driveway it's an old project car i don't have room at my house so my

girlfriend let me keep it in her driveway there's pictures of you there yes of course my girlfriend has pictures of her boyfriend she's been with her 13 years at her house you know what i'm saying that doesn't mean i'm there that the dope that you found is there her boy her brother crackhead you know that that's his dope i don't know anyways they said well maybe we win maybe we lose we'll go to court it doesn't matter to me it's all a day in the job whether i win or lose I got to go to court. I don't, whatever. I said, yeah, you don't got no case, bro.

I'm out of here. I turned around and walk along. But everybody in the neighborhood knew. All my dope deal in the homeboy, my gangster crew, my cousins, the guys I dealt with, everybody knew about the raid because one of my main weed dudes lived across the street. He's the guy called me to tell me my house was getting raided. He called my girl and says, your house is getting raided. She picks the phone calls me and says, what you do?

What do you do? I'm like, what did I do? What do it mean? She says, the neighbor called, said the freaking feds are in the house, tearing the house apart. I'm like, I did you? And I'm like, oh, my goodness, there's all that in there. Plus 40 pounds of weed in the garage. 40 pounds of weed in the rafters in the garage.

They didn't find that, though. And there's $32,000 in cash in the closet, the linen closet, just under some towels, bro. Just laid out and, like, you know, $4,000, $5,000 stacks under towels. I'm thinking, oh, my God, it's all my money. I had maybe $5,000 in a protein jar. a refrigerator they found that i'm like so they got the 40 pounds 200 000 with a and 40 pounds of weed that's like 50 grand or whatever it was i'm like i am screwed because i owe money for the i'm screwed well the next so after the raid i get my boy i i don't really trust anybody at

this point so i get a guy that i don't even know that well because i don't trust nobody because i'm not sure who set me up i'm not positive who set me up yet so i get this dude i barely know and I said, bro, we're going to park in the next street. You're going to walk to the backyard behind my house. Jump the fence, climb through the window of my bedroom, go into that linen closet and see if that money is still there. And this dude's like, it's just like a square, bro. This dude's like, he's like, are you serious, bro? I got to walk through some random yard, jump the fence, going to climb through your window. I said, yeah. And if the money's there, put in a pill case and bring it back. That dude was honest, bro. He went in there. 10 minutes later,

he came back running down the driveway he's got a freaking a pillowcase 32,000 in cash in there and i think i gave him like a thousand thanks for being honest man and then like then i went and checked the garage for the weed and was in the rafters they didn't check the only reason they didn't find the weeds had two dogs i had a rottweiler and a german shepherd and they're they looked really mean and ferocious but they weren't they're super soft but i don't i think the raid team didn't go in the garage and like do a lot of poking around because those dogs are out there They didn't find 50 pounds, 40 pounds of weed.

Anyways, but everybody heard that I got busted, so it was like roaches in daylight, bro. Everybody poof. Everybody I dealt with my dope dealing buddies, my gangster homeboys, all the guys they did dirt with, all the robbery guys, all the...

Everybody vanishes, right? So now I'm on my own, and I owe a guy 200 grand or $180,000 for the... And I got to pay all my money that I have for a lawyer. Well, I'm saving it. I don't have to pay it, but I'm saving it for a lawyer. Over the next, like, nine months, I don't get charged.

Nothing. They don't charge it for nine months. So I spend a lot of my money. Now I'm running around Robin Peter to pay Paul. I stole 200 pounds of weed from this black weed dealer. The irony of him, his name is Bebe. If he ever sees this, I'm sorry, Bebe. I liked you.

He was a good dude. I liked him. He was a big dealer, and I convinced him to stop selling him because he had to plug on the good weed. He had this Jamaican weed. It was like the best weed. And he had the plug on it, bro. And it was cheap like a thousand a pound. I'm like, stop selling it. Bro. You get busted with you. You're going to go to prison for the next freaking, you know, 20 years. It's weed. If you get busted selling 100 pounds of weed, you get for two years for probation. You need to get in a weed game. So he listened to me. He got in the weed game, gave up the hand. Right.

Then one day out of the blue, I call him. And I'd buy 20 or 30 or 40 pounds sometimes from him poor friend. I get it. Make a few hundred bucks. Then one day I said, bro, I need two pounds i got a guy who wants it and he's like he was nervous he was too out of the blue most i'd ever asked him for was like 30 40 pounds and he's like i'm like i'm like i need 200 pounds and i tell him i'm gonna get it i'm like i put it in this freaking um this crate box it's made for a washing machine i have this jeep truck and he has a truck and i'll do it right in broad daylight swap it at the mall we'll go to the mall we're parking a parking lot you'll park i'll pull the we'll pull the fricking crate out it's 200 pounds of weed we'll put it in the back of my truck just wait there

I'm going to run the weed. The house is only two miles away where I'm going to get the money, and I'll bring it right back. He's really nervous, bro. Like, we're in the middle of the doing this. He's like, man, you sure, man, I can go with you. I said, now the guy will freak out if I bring you, bro. Just relax. I take the freaking weed and leave.

I don't ever see the freaking guy again. 200 pounds of weed. Then I call the guy that I owed for the man who's a mob guy in a cousin of mine, who I'd known for 10 years. I mean, I found out he was a cousin when I was like 20 years old. So, but he's, you know, from my, he was, laid it on my great-grandmother's side. He was my boy, though. I liked him. He became a big drug dealer.

And good-looking kid, and we did a bunch of dirt together. We did a bunch of scams and scrapped together over the years. He wasn't really a gangster, but he was kind of a pussy, a pretty boy, but he was a hustler. And I didn't want him to think, because I was known, bro. Man, I was known for Robin Dobia. I was known for Robin the Club. I was known for it. So it was hard for guys to get them.

to front me five, 10, 20, 30 pounds of anything, right? Because they thought I was going to take the money and run and then what? And then I'd be like, so what are you going to do? You can't whip my ass? You know, I'm, and say, so you come to try and I'll break your jaw. And if you come, you want to try and kill me, you know, I always had a gun on. I said, you better be a good shot and get it done. That's it.

And they knew I was like that. They knew I was cut like that. So a lot of times when I took dope, took the set, guys just have to chalk it off. What are you going to do? You're going to kill this guy over 10 pounds? pounds of weed and then you got a beef with him if you don't kill him then he's going to try and kill you and this is what they thought i projected this lunatic but um so i just get angelo to front me two kilos a and normally he was fronted me like an eighth or a quarter kilo and he finally says

me hey man listen why don't i rather than you call me every three days for a quarter kilo or or an eighth of kilo every three four days why don't i just give you you know a couple keys and then you just come I'm paying me once a month, you know? Makes sense? Right. So I was like, okay, cool, give me the two kilos. And as soon as he gives them to me, I get rated. Like I sold like an eighth of key and then boom, get rated and I lose the dope.

But then I say to him, yo, my house got raided. And he's like, what? I'm like, he's like, in his mind's like, why aren't you in jail? You know, like, how do you get rated the two kilos again? And you're out here walking around. Or at the very least, how much was your. bond and like my bond wasn't nothing they're like what like how are you out here walking around bus with two kids and you don't even have so they could look in the court like they can go on the

computer and stuff and so there's no record of their arrest there's no record of the bond there's no dude it looks like you're a rat you know what I'm saying that's what that's what it looks like to them so they're just like oh we're good man oh you don't know me nothing I don't you know what's talking about they're all acting like that though they're all like now you don't know me nothing I'm like then stop acting like that bro I would never scam you stop you stop I'll get you the money. Well, you don't want me nothing, that's a good. So I ended up scamming the black dude of 200 pounds of weed and call an angel and say,

would you take 180 pounds of weed? Because I wanted to keep 20. I would you take the 180 pounds of weed for 180. I owe you. And he's like, yeah, that's a good deal. I'll take it. You know what I'm saying? So I said, you sell the weed, do whatever the frick you want.

So I steal the weed and I keep 20 to, you know, and eventually nine months later. But the whole time, I'm struggling to, to maintain. my lifestyle. I'm gambling. I'm getting high and pills eventually. I just bought a second house. You know, I worked out. I was a bodybuilder. I worked out. I dressed nice. I had jet skis. I was always out jet skiing and four-wheeled and living that life. But dude, when your money is, when you're spending two, three, four thousand a week and you're not taking it in, you start to get desperate, bro. And that's when you start doing really, really foolish things, stupid things that you normally wouldn't do.

That's when I started robbing banks, bro. So I started robbing. I started with robbing the square dope dealers that I was dealing with. Like, yeah, I sell a guy 20 pounds of weed, and then I, you know, then he'd give me the money, and then I pull a pistol out and say, I'm taking the weed back. Give me the 20, like 30 grand for the weed, and then I'd say, all right, cool, grab the weed, pull a gun, and say, now I'm taking the weed back. And guys would be like, really?

What are you going to do? So I did that with everyone I could. I robbed everyone again. I went pimp hunting. I used to pimp hunt. I'd go looking for pips. I would go on the 8-mile and Woodward and tell pimps, you know, I would tell pimps that I was an NFL guy.

I was in the NFL. I had a bunch of money. And I need some girls. I needed to bring some good-looking girls to the house or to the whatever, to a hotel. And then they'd bring them, and then I'd rob everybody. I'd zip, you know, I'd pull it done. I'd rob the pimp. I'd rob the girls.

I'd rob them all. You know? If they acted funny, I'd shoot them. I'd shoot by them. bang bang it's scary and you know i carried this big 45 boom boom and like oh give me a jewelry money cash everything i did that if you don't get much from that a couple thousand bucks and then it got to the point where i i started i needed money so i'm robbing stores i'm robbing banks i'm robbing whatever whoever hijacked trucks i got i hijacked the freaking coca-cola truck once you know what i'm saying

for a whole whole truckload of and i sold to the arabs you know in the liquor stores the Arab liquor stores in the city, you know. I sold, like, $10,000 with a Pepsi or, it was, you know, for like, four grand. You know, they can sell it for, so I'm like, boom, just like that. I'm poor driver, you know, and I just jump up, put the gun, and get out. I'm like, no, I didn't say anything. In fact, I just said, drive, mother effort, because I figured they had a GPS in there. So I just going to, you're going to go here to this warehouse, and you're going to do that.

Anyways, then I ended up getting in a, I go to rob a bank. the final day is, you know, bad, we'll wrap it up. But I, yeah, it's my, my girlfriend, I was 29 years old, and in my new house, my girlfriend says, it's Bill Day, and I said, how much do we owe? And she says, your half is $2,200 because we have taxes, because we always split the bills, you know? And I, like, I remember I was getting dressed in a shirt and tie, like a suit jacket, and I put a pistol in my waist and I looked and I looked at myself in the mirror

I was I look good I'm in good shape no one would ever know I'm getting high and I'm a fricking loser everybody thought I had is doing great I had this beautiful house a fiancee and cars in the driveway toys you know what I'm saying I was tan I was buff nobody knew and I check my my pocket I got seven hundred dollars is all I got so I tell my girlfriend I'm listening I'm gonna run up to the bank and get the rest. I'll be back in a minute, you know, a few minutes. So I, I, I grabbed this fake bomb that I made out of a drill set and I walked into the bank and had wires sticking out of it with duct tape rounded and stuff. It was pretty, pretty, you know, I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it,

but I walk into the bank. There's like a security guy by the door. I said, how you doing, man? I walk walk up to the counter in the back you know set that on the counter right up take take a withdrawal form and write a note on it and on the note i said i said there's a bomb in the bank that's remote detonated i need 75,000 cash in the next 90 second or the bank goes boom and everyone in it tick tock and then i walked outside and i got in the drive-thru and drove through the drive-thru grab pneumatic thing put the slip in there put it in here and sat there like this like this with my phone like it was the detonator looking at my looking at my watch like this i'm telling you bro like 60 seconds later thing comes back i think i'm all over the cash i throw it on the seat i pull off it was a car that i

stole it was a car i stole from a lot you know when you're white in an in a shirt and tie you'd be prize what you can get away with. I just walked up through a used car lot and said, I want to, I want to test drive that car right there. And like, yeah, yeah, sure,

here's the key, man. You know, you're a white guy in a suit and all ain't. And I'm like, I'll be right back. I'm going to test drive it. I'm interested in buying it.

And I just took it and never went back. And I drove it around robin for the next seven days or whatever it was. And anyways, how much was how much you get from the bank? Was it $75,000? No, I think it was $22,000. But I never got a chance to count it.

because what happened next to the bad. I never did, like, dig into the, what do they call it, the discovery. I didn't care. I hated the legal system. I knew I was effed anyways. You know, so I think there was a tracking device in the money or in the pneumatic thing. Or, you know, I think maybe people take it accidentally and they know who got it and they call or they find it or whatever. I don't know.

But I got on an expressway about two miles, three miles away. And there was an unmarked black crown Vic on the side expressway. When I passed it, it jumped out and got behind me. About a mother mile up, it's another cop car. It's on the side of when I pass it, it jumps up. But now I know. So I stomp on the gas. And within three miles, there's probably eight cars behind me, eight cop cars flying.

You just wouldn't believe the crap that I did. I'm doing 100 miles an hour. I'm coming around the bend at eight mile. It's a big bend. An 8 mile in Vernier, or Vernier is 8 mile, 8 mile of I-94. And a cop comes down the off-ramp the wrong way, bro, in an SUV cop car. It comes down the wrong way and blocks off the entire expressway. So the whole expressway is like a traffic jam.

So you have the embankment on this side and you have the little area between the wall and the cars. And this is a, I smashed this, my way between the wall. I'm doing about a hundred. This guy pulls out like he's going to try and hit me, but I'm doing way too fast. So he doesn't. He hits the brake. Well, I got eight, ten cars behind me. I get in a massive high-speed chase.

I end up crashing the car. I get out and I run. And I can't get too far. No, they surround me. I actually lose them. This is how stupid and type of dirt. straights I was in, bro. I lose them when I get, I'm like, if I can just get to Detroit, they'll call off the chase and now I'll be good, right? So I fly in like a maniac. I do a Hail

Mary. Literally, I literally, bro, did this, a Hail Mary and blew through a red light doing a hundred. There was a side, kind of a smaller side street, but I'm doing a hundred and just and I see it. It's going to be, it's going to be red. So I'm just going to right through it. Now, I'm only half a mile from Detroit now. So I get to the half mile mark. I cross Kelly. I'm in Detroit. I'm like, I'm good.

So I weed through some side streets. I lost the cough. I'm good to go. I end up going to the freaking liquor store, or, I mean, the gas station that's six mile on grass shit, a walk in the back. These two black kids that I know there that they sell and weed. And I usually would have bought in bulk. But at the time, I was like, I'm going to get a couple bundles, a couple hundred dollars just to get me through.

I walk in there, and I see them. So this is the first thing they do. They're in the back of the store. The Caldean or Arab who owns a place to let's them hang out in the back by the video games that you sell dope all day. It's wintertime, you know? This is like February, first week of February.

I walk back on and go, what's up, Dee? I'm going to get two bundles and a couple of dimes and a couple of dime bags of weed. And they look first thing to do, go, man. Al, you all right, bro? I said, yeah, I'm good wine, man. They're like, you ain't looking so good, bro. Because I just did this high-speed chase.

I'm freaking out. So they give me the dope. I could walk up to the counter, right? and I go to buy a blunt. I buy a blunt for the weed. And the Chaldean owner knows me too. He goes, what's up, man? He says, what's up, Matt?

You don't look so good, bro? I said, let's give me the frickin' plan. I go in the car, and I start breaking the blunt open. So I roll a joint, and all of the sudden I hear, and you know that sound, and it's coming right down the road. I stomp on the gas, cut the wheel, drive over the lawn, smash off a parked car a car set the light sitting at the light

bounce off it bang crash get another high speed chase insane through the city high speed chase lose them again crash get out run and then they surround me the whole block and there's like 50 cops and they get me and they beat my ass

to a pulp bro they beat my ass through a pulp and they cuff me stomp me out and I'll never forget it was six black cops all going, why didn't you shoot white boy? Why didn't you shoot? Wham! Wham! Pistol whipping me. Pistol! I'm cuffed. I'm going tough guys, aunta.

Why didn't you shoot? They wanted me to shoot so they could shoot back and kill me, you know? But I threw my gun. When they surrounded me, they're like getting it out there, and I took the gun and I threw it. I had a six-hour, a 40-kill, and I dumped it. I'm not trying to die. So, anyways, it got me to the police station. I had to go in an emergency room, get all stitched up. I was all busted up bleeding all over time. place. They tried, the feds came in and tried to get me to cooperate right away. They said I could go home to my fiancé, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And, you know, I wasn't going to cooperate. And that was really the end of the game. So this is where, I guess, the best part of my

story begins, because I go, essentially, I end up in prison. Well, I'm fighting my case. I fight my case for 22 months, about, 22 months, so about 19 or 20 of those months, I was in solitary confinement. I was in the hole. So I was only in. Why? Started with me smashing some kid's eye in some little, some little black kid stole two hostess pies. He wasn't a little kid. He was actually kind of stocky, but he was young. He was only like 20, 22 year old kid, and I was like 29. And I came back from church, and I noticed my box is moved and I said to my bucky you know who took so and I saw there's two pies missing and I said I'd say I'd say who would I trick win my box I was stomp your mother

effing head in I'm I'm going crazy bro I broke the TV you only got one TV in the county jail on the table I kicked it off the table I stood on the table boom I kicked it out the table you bitch ass mother who win myself who got the bull I took my box comment said I said on there I said I dare someone to come take it like a man come get it like a man it's right there just take it come get it mother effers and now they're all a bunch of of pussies. I said, you all, pussies, I bought your soul, you punk-ass mother, efforts. And they locked me down. They locked the unit down. The cops see you in the tower. Locked down. Then they come to me like, limoom, what's your problem? I said, somebody stole from me.

They let it go. I said, okay. Then I get it. They click, click, click, click. And they let us back out like an hour later. And I'm sitting there. And I'm looking at this little black kid. His name is Weezy. And he's got a razor in his hand. It's home a razor. And he's leaning against the wall with his back to the wall. And he's just watching. His hand is shaking. hands like this, trembling. I walk right up in his face. I go, bro, why are you shaking, bro? What'd you do?

I didn't do it, bro, with my bunky, man. I didn't have nothing to do with it. My bunkey did it. My bunky did it. I said, your bunky did it, huh? So I walked upstairs. I didn't do his cell. And the bunkey was a cocky punk.

Like, I'd seen him punk out, a couple little square white boys. He's always acting tough, and he's always acting, like trying to house poker games and beast on everyone. He's one of those. And in my mind, I knew I could stomp him with ease, but I'm just a little punker. So I went in a cell and I said,

hey man, you steal something from me? He's like, no man, you steal knuck? I said, well, I'm going to go through your box and check. Oh, man, now you're disrespecting me, Doug. I'm disrespected me. Flam! And I just, like, and caved his orbital socket in. Just boom.

They hit one shot, and crushed him, though. Knocked him unconscious. And then I dragged him by the ankle by his feet out into the unit. And I said, anybody else want to steal from me? Anybody else want to steal? And this dude just leaking everywhere, bro. I know I crushed his orbital socket because I had to pay restitution for it. Like, I actually had to pay for the ambulance rot.

But I got the medical report. It said surgically repaired, crushed orbital socket. You know what I'm saying? I saw the dude in the county jail like a year later. And he still had a black eye, bro. He still had a black eye. I was cuffed up coming back from court. They were moving him.

He was still in there for whatever he was. And I see him. And he's got a big scar and a black eye. What's up, Al? He says, like, hey, buddy. What's up, Al? I said, freaking guy. So that's how I started in the hole.

But when I was in the hole, I got into it with these cops. I got into it with the cops multiple times. They beat me up. The cops beat me up in there, had me cuffed up and stomp me out bad, off camera. Stomp me out, man. Fricking, like, smash me. I had to get stitches in, like, three different places on my head. So when I get done after they stomp me, I really was no big,

this is why i'm coming back from court i got a five million dollar bond though i'm facing 30 years in prison and they're so because i was a high level high um you know public in there they they always put me in my own cell i was classified as level nine i don't even know what that means i mean i've been in the hole for months and months and months and i'm in a black and white striped suit while everybody else wears blues or greens and they're like when i get off the bus i drive in my own boss i'm completely isolated from all the other inmates so they're walking me back to my cell in the hole and there's five of them surrounding me i'm belly shackled ankle shackled and cuffed behind my back and the cop is yanking my shoulder he's just like

and i'm just like i said bro i know where we're going man i know where we're going relax dude he said shut up inmate shut up he ain't no talking and i said oh i know what your problem is bro you got a little dick you got a little dick syndrome and the other cops started laughing but he didn't think was funny and then they kind of all get each other to look like yeah we got him so there's cameras in the hallway but when you get on the elevator there's no cameras so the second i stepped on the elevator like a second my foot even stepped one foot in it i felt this i on the back of the head and i heard stop resisting and they just started stomping me, bro, and they stomp me out.

And so I get back to the cell, and they're like, you know, turn around so you can un-cuff against the bars, you know? So I got to back up against the bars and they uncuff my wrist. And then I turn around and say, yeah, come in here and give me now, mother effort. All five of you punk-ass mother-efford, I said, you punk-ass bitch is going to jump me five-on-one while I'm cuffed, I said, but freaking, come in now. And they all walk away, of course. I'm bleeding all over the place.

And this is where one of the most interesting parts of the story is. I was sitting there, beat up. They threw a whole bucket of mop water on my bunk, just to be dicks. They took all my mail and my pictures that my girlfriend had sent me, all my mail from my friends and family, and I threw it on my bunk and dumped the five-gallon bucket of mop water over my bunk. And it was cold in there. It was wintertime, so it was real cold.

And I'm sitting there bleeding. I'm out of breath. I'm hurt, dripping blood, leaking blood all low, just pouring blood. And I remember thinking to myself, man, dude, like, I can't do, I'm not, I can't do 30 years like this, bro. I just, I'd rather just check out, you know, just check out. I've never been scared. Like, I can tell you stories. I've been shot.

I've been stabbed. I've been in the seven gun battles, bro. I've been shot twice, stabbed in the chest. But I had a, if you look right here, there's a scar on my head where I was hit with a baseball bat. I mean, just, I'm not scared to die. I never was. I'd rather just be dead, man. Let's go in the shower, slip my wrist check out.

God bless everybody. I'm sorry. Then I saw a letter from my grandmother on the bed, and I remember distinctly in the letter, she said, honey, you write the most beautiful letters. You could be a writer. And it clicked, bro. It clicked. That God, right then at that moment, I felt God tell me.

No, you not just could be a writer. You are a writer. I made you to be a writer. you're going to be a writer and you're going to take this time and you're going to become this world-class writer and I believed it from that moment and so from that day on I sat there for the next 14 months staring at the ceiling and I wrote three novels in my mind though three and one of those novels was called the Be a King was about a Fictional Mafia family wasn't my favorite novel but I just happened to like contrive this story right and I wrote them

start to finish. And then when I got the prison, this is where things really get really interesting. Then I get the prison. And a guy who I robbed of a bunch of weed writes me a letter. This is crazy. A dude who I knew was a big bodybuilder, kind of a, not a tough guy, but it looked like a tough guy. I had him front me 10 pounds of weed, and then I debowed him. I just said, I'm not paying you, right? What are you going to do? You can't whip me, beat it. He was a nice guy. He said, really, you're not going to pay any? I said, no, whatever. So that was that. fast forward five years i get a letter from him he says you know i'm born again christian now i live in chicago i married a girl from my church choir i saw in a newspaper you got sentenced all that time

in prison and i couldn't believe it i was like man i felt really bad for you though how much time by the way how much time 13 years 13 to 50 okay so they gave me 13 to 50 so he says i felt horrible because the next day on my way to work i was driving and it hit me man something hit me and I never felt this before except one time except the moment I gave my life to Christ in church only one of the time I felt this I felt God's saying to me to look out for you I don't know why I don't know what the purpose is but God said to reach out to you and it's there's something I can do for you I don't have much money but I can help you if there's anything I do to help you this random dude I'd rob right who I like but I just know

I wasn't close with he's an older guy I said Yeah, bro, could you send me a few books so I can buy some paper and pens? I want to start writing books. He said, yeah, I can do that. He sends me 30 bucks. I spent the next year writing a book. I sent him the book. He was in Chicago. He got a good job as a headhunter down there. And he would go to drive the train to work every day. And he would read this book and he would read the book and he's freaking blown away and he's just like, oh my God, bro, I can't believe he wrote this book. This is so good. I just can't believe you wrote this. So now he's in my camp and he's supported me and he likes it. And every year,

about once a year, I'd send him a book, and he'd read it, you know? And he just kept going, wow, like, these are getting better and better. And the guys in prison are saying the same thing. You know, there's big readers in prison. Guys love to read. There's a lot of them in prison. I just like, wow. And they're reading the books and they're going, bro.

Like, I'm getting people, Matt, that are going, dude, I've been in prison for 20 years. I've read, like, thousands of books. This is the best book I've ever read. I can't believe the best book I've ever read is the dude are locked down the hall from me, wrote it. Like, that's crazy, man. What are you doing in prison? And I'm like, ah, it's an idiot. I know the loser just like you.

I screwed up. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm here. Like, how do you have talent like that? And end up in prison? I'm like, ah. And anyway, so I'd write this book, book, book. So this is work.

It's really crazy. Fast forward to year six. On year six, I finished my sixth novel. This is the to be a king one, the one about a mafia family. The one about a fixing old Detroit mafia family, right? I just, I just, I was my, I guess my sixth favorite story that I'd created in my mind.

I got to it on year six. I write the book. I sent it to my boy Joe. Again, he's like, oh my God, bro, this is so good. This is incredible. This is amazing. So he starts sharing it with my other buddy. He's saying the same thing. This is incredible. This is amazing. They end up starting a Facebook page for me. I don't even know what Facebook is. It's 2009. I don't even know what it is. I've been in prison six years. I heard of it like on TV and stuff, but I don't know what it is. And I said, what is? And they're like, we're going to hook you up. We're trying to connect you with some girls from the neighborhood and some friends and maybe you get some letters and da-da-da. So they create a Facebook page on it. They said, A, I'm a Christian, B, that I'm writing books in prison. I'm a writer. Let's put it out there. First thing it happens is I start getting fan mail. They put sample chapters of my book, sixth book, the mafia book, on Facebook.

And I start getting fan mail, so much fan mail that the warden calls me in and says, what's going on? I said, what's what? He's like this, all this J-Pay fan mail coming in. What is this? You got a Facebook. And I said, yeah, you can't have one. I'm like, why not? there's not a policy or a law that says I can't have a Facebook page he says you better knock

it off you want to go get home go home you got I still got five six years left I'm like wait dude I mean there's no law well I'm not going to do it so out of spite they rode me to the worst prison in Michigan and the second most violent prison in America at the time kinross correctional facility three days after that meeting they put me in a bus a 17 hour ride up to kinross and I spent the next four years in the worst freaking nightmare blood gel or whatever but anyways didn't change anything so all of a sudden one day i'll start wrap i'll wrap it up the best part about my story happens next the best part by far is is i mean this is the good part all the other part is entertaining but not really good so a woman who who who work for a publisher in academic

publishing but she works in publishing who saw my Facebook profile she was also a new Christian she had been raised Muslim she sees my profile sees that I'm writing books so she decides to look at these sample chapters and she reads them she says wow these sample chapters are actually really good you know so she writes me a letter and says you know I work for a publisher I have friends in commercial fiction maybe they can help you get published if if the book's any good if you want to have your friend or somebody send me a copy of the book, manuscript, PDF, I'll take a look at it. It's any good.

Maybe I can help you get published. And I'm just like, hallelujah, you know, think about how, like, lucky I felt for that. Like, you got to be kidding me, right? It's insane. So I have my friend turn the book into a PDF and send it to the girl. The girl's cute, too. She's cute because I get to sends me a picture. And so she reads the book in three days, but it's both volumes of my book, to be

King, volume one and two. So it's 1,100 page. She reads both of the volumes in three days on her phone and iPad. And she writes me a letter and basically says it's the best book she's ever read. But let me preface it by saying she's been obsessed with books all her life. She lived a horrible childhood. Her father was like a tyrannical abusive Muslim tyrant who had beat her and mentally abused her and her escape was reading books. So all her life, she was just obsessed with reading her since she was like four. She worked at a bookstore when she was in high school. She had a literary scholarship when she was in high school.

She loved books. Now she works in publishing. And she tells me that my book is the best book that she's ever read. And she calls me a unicorn. Now I'm just like, holy crap, right? Me and this girl become pen pals and we start writing each other. And the crazy part is she's now in the other room. And then she's my wife.

she ends up waiting six and a half years for me we fall in love through letters we never even talk we don't never get on the phone nothing we just write letters for a year fall in love very madly in love and she commits her life to marry me before we ever speak word on the phone we do admit to love we do she's walking by right hi honey hi hi and so she basically says i would wait 20 years for you i'll wait seven so she waits the seven years six and a half years for me. And then the day after I get out, I marry her in a small town courthouse. And then we both get baptized together in Lake Huron 20 minutes later. But remember I told you that guy, Joe, Joe, the one who God told him, you know, I want you to support him. He was one of the four guys

who picked me up from prison the day that I get out. He was one of the guys who drove me to my wife five hours away from the prison. She was cooking us a feast. And so two of my boys, you know, drove me to her. You know, two of my boys were from the neighborhood. They just came and hugged me up and taking me breakfast. But my other two boys drove me five hours to Maria, who was waiting for the feast. And then the next day, those two home boys, Joe being one of them, were witnesses at my wedding. And Joe, who was like an ordained minister now, baptized me.

So that same guy, I robbed up 10 pounds of weed. Five years later, God told him, I don't know why, but God is telling me to support you. or help you i don't even know why and that same dude six years after that starts a facebook page that leads this woman into my life and seven years after that he picks me up from prison and baptizes me is that crazy so so all of that to move forward i published these books to be a king buying one and um people say they're the next godfather so you get like hundreds of people on and the reviews are going dude this guy gunner wrote the next godfather or this guy's this is the Best Mafia story that's been told in 50 years.

Like, we've been waiting for this story for 50 years. You read the reviews. You can know that. To be a king on Amazon, I got between the two books, nearly 300, five-star reviews. There's a lot, you know, I got a lot of good reviews. And so, you know, I did that. And then I started an apparel company called Arthling Apparel, kind of loosely in but it takes your city in the, like, in California, wherever your city is, you're from

Florida, so you might have, you know, Fort Lauderdale or Tampa or whatever, Miami. To your city, our thing. So we do everything, you know, it's custom to your city. But here's the thing, man. Now I started a publishing company, and I'm a ghostwriter, and I do, I mean, like, not a huge ticket, but like $20,000 ghost writing. And we do publishing. We help, you know, we're a publisher too.

And I'm a screenwriter, so I've been writing some scripts, getting paid well. But I also just started a Christian radio station. But it's an alternative type of Christian radio station. It's like people like you, me, people like, I don't know if you're Christian, but it's like people like myself who have kind of remarkable testimonies, hosting shows, interviewing people about other remarkable testimonies or just crazy things that you experience in life, God. I think if you were to ask most Christians, they've all had at least one miracle happen in their life, maybe more. are you a Christian yeah so I would say well I was raised Catholic but we go to like I've never been baptized no no no no that's okay no no no I was raised Catholic too I'm not a Catholic you know what I'm just yeah but we go to like a non-denominational church yeah yeah

yeah me too as long as you believe in Jesus that's all that matters that's it's a vastly different thing oh vastly vastly vast but the thing is if I was asked you Matt to go back in your life and and um name a one miracle that's happening. I can guarantee right now you would say, well, dude, there was this time and this happened. And there's no way mathematically or probability it could have happened or should have happened, but it did. I was able to survive. All right, boy, like, I've had quite a few. But I had one time, I'll give you a good example. I was in the middle of doing a drug deal, negotiating the price. The guy was giving me a hard time trying to up the price to the last minute.

got the window down in summertime I'm looking at him I got a gun here in my waist and all of a sudden I feel something pressed against my head behind me like over here because I'm talking to dude and pass the seat in my car and I hear I feel this and I hear

don't move mother effort and so I feel don't move my other and I go to look and it's the barrel of a pistol so the guy is standing above my car but he's got the pistol against my head like just standing there and here don't move my effort and he goes to rack around into the gun and automatic why you wouldn't have a round in the gun already you're a flippin dumb ass but he goes

shh and it jams the gun goes and i can see it because i'm looking dead at it so because don't move my left for and i got to turn and he goes and i see the bullet sticking out so i pull my gun all in literally literally one second or less I grab his hand with the gun pull my gun I'm looking at him because I don't know if this dude's got a gun too because I know it's a robbery so this dude might be pulling on me so I'm going to shoot him in the face anyway regard I grabbed this guy's this guy's hand with strong and I like crunch his hand and start twisting I'm this fast and I'm about the freaking blasts dude and the guy next to me He sees me coming with the gun.

He dies out of the car. So he don't got it. So I reached, now, this guy is still kind of struggling with his gun because he's got two hands. I reached the gun up, aim in his face, pulled the trigger, his hand goes limp, the gun falls in the back seat. Gun falls in my back seat. I throw the car and drive, peel off. I get the gun. And I get about three houses and I hear one shot.

One shot, bang. I'm so mad that they tried to rob me, that I slam on the brakes, open the door. This is how crazy I was, bro. I'm gone. I could have been gone. I hear one shot. Bang! I'm only like two houses down the way.

I slam on brakes, jump on the car, stand up in the street, and I take aim like this. My dad was a gun dealer, so I shot a lot, a lot, like $100,000 around. I prep. And I'm taking aim. Bang, bang, bang. Broad daylight. Saturday afternoon. There's four of them.

The dude that I shot originally who had a gun, he's crawling around on the ground, rolling around. The other dudes, I'm just going, bang, bang, bang, bang. And they're running and diving and trying to get away, boom, boom, boom, boom. I empty my magazine. But I live. And the moral of the story is God had a, God was not like, not to death. I have a feeling they were probably going to kill me. You know what I'm saying?

And the guy with the racked around, said, don't move my leverage. I took a baseball bat, their head, got stabbed, and jumped beat, whatever. And I was almost dead, bro. I ran for my life. I got away. I was like five blocks away. Barefoot, bleeding, no shirt, had a bat broken over my head, broken, wrapped around my head. I'd been stabbed in the chest, hit with a bottle, hit with a two by four, punched and kicked like 20 times, jumped.

And I'm walking on the street, and I'm trying to, I go to try to get some water out of a faucet. I'm dying, bro. It's almost over it. some water that's all I want and some black woman comes front of her house she says hey man get away from my house and I said I just want some water and she says damn maybe what happened you get run over by a car or you getting a car accident I said no I got to jump so she walks me up on her porch gives me a glass of water tells me but a towel over my head because that's where the most blood was coming from she didn't even see where I was stabbed in the chest and um that I did I knew I

stuck my finger in a hole see how deep it was and it was all the way in there like I felt my lung breathing. I stuck my finger in a hole when I was breathing like a few my lung against my finger. So this ain't good. And anyways, and so she called the ambulance and I blacked in and out. And anyways, I lived. The crazy part is I went back to try and find that lady to thank her and grow and I couldn't find her. Couldn't find her house. Couldn't find her. And I still see her house to this day perfectly. It's a great, a white house with green awning, green trim, vacant lot next door and two green chairs on the porch I went back and drove up and down every block for like an hour trying to figure out the house is gone vanish that's why I think I don't know what the thing

was it a miracle was a god an angel maybe I imagined it I don't know it was a weird thing but anyways I lived that's the moral stories I live and so God had a purpose and so now I think now I have reached a point in my life where I have reached my main purpose, which is to inspire people to, you know, never give up, chase their dreams, be their best of them. Don't God first, you know, put God first, and everything else will fall in the place. You can do anything, you know, I gave you a pretty detailed account in my life, what a scumbaggo I was and how I ended up that way or whatever. But ultimately today, I am happening married to a beautiful, amazing woman.

I live on a 20-acre homestead in northern Michigan. You know, I'm not rich. I'm not rich by any means. I hope to be pretty soon, but I know I got a dirt bike and a four-wheeler, and I got a car that drives, and I got a, you know, we've got a couple cars. I got a beautiful home and a pretty some property. I go hunting and fishing all the time. I just got back to camping for a week.

I live a good, wholesome, Christian, honest life. So compared to the life that you heard me talk about, you know, leaving up the prison or before prison, and it's like night and day, bro. It's like, it's miraculous, really, the fact that I, and now a documentary on all this is being, is being made that starts shooting in a couple weeks, you know, and the main focal point is the redemption, is the, my love story of my wife and how I was able to imprison just that moment when I got jumped and I was like, you know what, man, I'm just going to kill myself. And God said, no, man, no, you're not. You know what I'm saying? You're going to keep going and you're going to do something. And I'm going to give you this talent, this. gift and you're going to run with it and it's going to change your life. You know, my books, I wrote, by the way, I wrote nine novels when I was in prison. I wrote another one since I've been home. I'm going to publish that this year.

It's a political thriller. But, you know, if you read my books, bro, Matt, if you read my books, you're going to be like, how the for, how, like, you'll wonder, like, how was this guy already not, like, you know, a household name. I get that every time somebody reads the books. They message me. I had a dude that landed on this. I had a guy, his name is Matt Simonsini, he was a CEO of Weird.

Leeer Corporation, read my books on his private jet, asked me to launch, I met him for lunch, he shook my hands and said, Gunner, you're the greatest writer in the world nobody knows about it. I said, well, I'm working on that. Nobody gave me the blueprint, you know, whatever. And that guy said, bro, he said to me, how are you not a household name, bro? After reading those books, like you're literally like one of the best writers in the world, you should I said, it takes money. It takes money to advertise, you know, to a book. And he said, how much money does it take? I said, I threw a number out there.

I'm like, I don't know, probably to become a world renown bestseller and get it out that's like, 25 grand with the marketing. He's like, you know, take a check. And I'm like, dude, I don't, I'm not, I'm not looking for charities, what I said. You know, basically he implied. It's like, I can help you, you know. I'm like, I said I wouldn't want your money as a charity, but I would be willing to go into business with you.

And she said, okay, let's have a meeting about that. And then we had a meeting. I said, I'll sell you 25% of all nine of my novels plus 25% of my apparel company for a number. And when I told them the number, 250 grand, he said, that's the number I figured you'd say. He said, the problem is I got a squeaky clean reputation. I'm the CEO of a Fortune 200 company. And he's like, what would the world think of me? And by the way, he let me drive his Ferrari.

After we left lunch, he gave me the keys to his Ferrari, and he filmed it on Facebook Live. I said, would you film this? Well, this $300,000 Marinello Ferrari. Because I said, is that your Ferrari? He said, yeah. I'm like, that's on my bucket list. He's drive one.

He goes, here. I just picked it up today. He hands me to keys. I said, you serious? He's like, yeah, bro. At least I can do, man, for the books you gave me that entertainment for them books, amazing books. So I get in there, and I burn rubber, and I go,

crazy and he's all he's like i'm like what you never burn broke the tires loose yet he's like no i picked it up freaking 45 minutes before i came to lunch i'm like you kidding me side well i only get one shot with it it's yours i'm gonna let it rip you know anyways he just said i can't i can't afford to you know go into business with a guy who's fresh out of prison ex-gainster tied to the mob blah blah blah blah it made you know i mean his career and stuff you don't risk that because it what if it gets out Oh, yeah, yeah, Matt Simetini. He just, you know, just partnered up for a movie with a freaking ex-gagant who's fresh out of mom. And by the way, he knew one of my aunts.

They lived on the same block. So anyways, the moral of the story is his reaction was the same that everybody's. He usually text him or he texts me every year for Christmas. He tells me this year. He texts me. And he says, Merry Christmas, wins volume three of the book coming out. So I get this all the time because everybody wants volume three to be a king. And I tell him, when I get a movie deal for volume one and two or one or two,

then I'll write volume three. You know, I just got it yesterday. Just somebody said, man, these need to be made a movie. You need volume three. I'm like, I'll write it when volume one gets made. Because once I have volume one made a movie, then I can get paid on volume three. You know, the book deal will be like, they'll give me a certain ton of money. Now, otherwise, what's the point?

And I'm not making that much from the book. Anyways, man, is there anything else you'd like to ask before, you know, I know you probably have things to do? No, no. I mean, other than, so where can you buy the book? Like, I mean, I'm assuming what you can get on Amazon, right? Yeah, let's go to Amazon. To be a king, to be a king on Amazon. It's got perfect five-star reviews to check it out. Where are you advertising? Like, are you just doing like social media like TikTok and Instagram, that sort of thing? I don't even really advertise much anymore. I'm so focused on other. other things I should be and I will but I makes way more money from my you know my publishing in the radio and all that stuff so it's not like but I have two new

novels coming out this year one is about called Snowman Chronicles is about two huge smugglers two huge huge like massive basically one of his uncle is a cartel boss in Columbia and another one's uncle is a mob guy in Detroit and they connect the mafia to the cartel, but they, but it on a global scale, because the mafia is connected all over the world, there's elements of the mafia all over, and anyways, it makes, they creates this huge network or distribution. It's called Snowman Chronicles, these two dudes, and, you know, they end up making about a million dollars a day at the height of the career, but that's nothing because of the cartels

and making it so much more. Anyway, so that's in the next novel, and then a political thriller called Blindsight 2030 is about this dystopian in the year 2030, basically China and Russia, attack us with a cyber attack EMP attack, economic attack, collapse us, we fall apart on each other, and instead of killing each other, whatever. So there's that, but no. That sounds very, that sounds very reasonable. Right, exactly, yeah.

You know, the way things are going? Exactly, people. Wait till you hear how I did it. Wait to you hear how I orchestrate it. When people read, like my beta readers and stuff, they did, they're like, dude, they're like, dude, it's scary how realistic and possible this could be. If they did exactly what you're describing in the book, America would end. And like I said, because once they do the economic EMP and cyber attack, America implodes on itself within about six weeks, and then it's chaos.

Then we start all killing each other for medication, for food, for water, for whatever, it's over. And then we kill each other for the next year, and then there's only maybe 15% of the population left, in which case, then our enemies just come ashore and say, well, we're taking your resources now. And whoever's left, either get out of our way or be our indented servants, slaves, whatever. be slave labor anyways so there's i got that and then uh or you check out my radio station people it's called conviction radio so you just go conviction radio.com there's a lot of cool shows on there um my show is called against all odds uh it's about remarkable achievements remarkable comebacks remarkable accomplishments just really remarkable stories i just had taylor kevin uh Tyler Kavanaugh on the Navy SEAL dude Chris Cavalini is a real popular

influencer that's Navy diver dude but really creative a multi-millionaire made many millions of dollars guys who went from nothing to multi-millionaires some are Christian stories some are not but um you know maybe I'll have you on there you know I'm saying because you have a good against all that story too so that's and then there's a lot of like my another guy who did 10 years in prison his show's called Rock Bottom he's very crazy like kind of biblical based but there's a lot of shows that aren't they're not like they're not bible studies or sermons they're just people saying hey man listen i got to the point in life if this happened and this happened and this happened and then god showed himself to me

through this way and next to you know i said they follow him in christ my life changed and here i am and you know just and they're giving these examples really interesting compelling inspiring shows so anyone who might you'd be shocked by how much you would like some of these shows They're like, it's so different. So go to ConvictionRadio.com and just hit play. If you want to look at our programming and the home page, just scroll down and there's like show art for every show. I think we have 22 shows.

There's news at the top of every hour. We're growing every day on board and new shows. Our goal is to have at least 100 more shows by the end of the year. So it's pretty cool and check that out. And then you can check out my apparel, arthing apparel at arthingapparel. Arthingapparel. Original gangster apparel. And whatever your city is, it will be on the back.

So you can, you know, like we do like 10 major cities, you know, that's print on demand. So when you buy it, it gets made and ship. But if you're buying something embroidered, like a hat or a jacket or a track suit or a duffel bag, you can put anything on there. Whatever your city is there, you need to put the name of your business, your name, your city, whatever. So you can do that at arthingapparel at arthingapparel. at arthur apparel.com. And lastly, anybody who has publishing needs,

if you're writing a book, publishing a book, editing a book, go to white pinepublishing.com. The name of the company is White Pine Publishing and Consulting. We do everything from A to Z. I do ghost writing and screenwriting and all that. And the last thing, I guess, stay on a lookout for the documentary.

It probably won't be available. until the beginning of next year it's a long process you know what I'm saying there's a lot of money time and energy it's going to be probably a 10-month process you know what I'm saying it's funny because you know 10 days with the filming and then 10 months with the editing yeah that's how it works have you ever done anything like that um I mean I've taken part in some you know like series documentaries you know where there are episodes and but uh and you know you know you Even, we even shot one for one of my books, they shot a sizzle reel. And I mean, the sizzle reel took for, like, it's three minutes, bro.

Yeah, I know. It's three minutes. It took, it took, it took, yeah, too much. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. It took. So I know, I already know that, you know, shooting a dock, like I'm in the middle of doing a sizzle right now.

And it's just dragging and drag. Of course, they're doing it between other shoots for other. They're doing other things, you know. Yeah, yeah. But they'll shoot it once and then they'll shoot it again, or, you know, re-edit it and edit it and edit it and it's like yeah nothing gets nothing that's done quickly no like we started started this whole journey a couple years ago and originally originally would start with the tv series and then they're like well let's start with this doc and it's been

it's been a crazy ride but it's been fun because i got to meet armada sante i got to spend six days at arman asante's house you know amman asante is right yes yes i they just talked him yesterday And he's going to be narrating in part in the doc. But I got to spend time. No, two different times, three days at his house. That was pretty cool, flown out to L.A. a couple of time. But anyways, yeah, it's a lot of work. And I'm just, even for me, man, like 10 days where the shooting is like, dude, 10 days.

I'd rather be fishing. But, you know, in the end, if the documentary gets done well and made and successful, and then I can sell a lot of books and I can make a lot of money and get my career ball taken to the next level. You know what I'm saying? And then we'll go from there. Maybe after we released the documentary,

I'll come back on the show and we can talk about it. We can talk about the doc, you know? There's a lot, dude. I like, I breezed over a ton of stuff. in this this is only so much time but if you were to come back

to say you know let's just talk about a couple of different criminal enterprises you were involved in tell me about them you know and I go into detail

about how they work the mechanics of them and those are kind of interesting and funny for people to kind of see because a lot of people don't realize you know

the mechanics behind you know some of these criminal most of the crap that I did was not criminal mastermind stuff you know what I'm saying

I was more of a guy who would like I'll pound a square peg into a round hole and just make it fit you know what kind of a violent you were a guy that was uh more of a criminal mastermind right i mean i i i i think you know it was it was borrowing money it was fraud so there's a lot of you have to have a certain skill set to do what i did so there's a lot more thought and preparing like i don't see a bank and think that'd be a good mark and then run in a rob the bank like it would take you know i got to try and borrow half a million or million i got to do the whole set up i got to get fake i mean fake stop so yeah so much smarter i still did 13 years how much you do 13 years 13 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3rd man dude i can't believe they give you 13 years for that

no they gave me 26 years i did 13 why would they give you 26 years for like for like identity fraud or whatever i mean one i was on the run well it was you know it wasn't just i didn't it was bank fraud it was you know it's all the different you know bank fraud there's no i agree but i was on the run and i got sentenced just as the housing crisis was hitting so i became kind of an kind of a scapegoat yeah yeah yeah and there had been there had been two date line episodes on me i was on american greed so you can imagine there was just a ton of yeah there was a ton of press and it was like, hey, let's make an example of this guy. Set into precedence.

This guy's got to pay the price. They did that with Seth. Seth, too. Seth Warenta, he was a guy who, you know, he was a product of the drug war on drugs, you know. They got buzzed with some acid, you know, like, we're giving 27 years, like, really? Some 20-year-old kid gets called some assing. And you get him 27 years? Like, there's no way a guy like you should have got, like, 27, freaking years.

That's great. Fed time, right? yeah yeah well at least there's that yeah yeah at least it was air condition yeah yeah exactly state time you don't want state time but i mean i would love to have done fed time i heard the fed i heard the feds pretty bad these days as far as food accommodations and stuff but but it's still it's still a different level and in our stage you got lunatics and rapists and killers and murders scum bag low low level of guys violence is this is a lot more violence but um yeah you always talk to the guys who would come from the state to the Fed and they'd be like, look, I'd rather do, you know,

I'd rather do five years in the Fed than do two years in the state. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, they're like, you know, but I didn't know any better. It's because it's so much more dangerous in the state, you know, it's a high, well, you get, it's a high, it's a high, you got a lot of violent criminals. Yeah. And I was in, when I was in a medium and a low, but I'm not a part of a gang. I don't talk shit about people.

I don't run up deaths. I don't gamble. Right. You know, I'm teaching GED and the real estate class. So, you know, I didn't have any problem. I hear these horror stories of being in the state or being in the pen. And I'm like, thank God I didn't fucking end up in one of those places. I should have never even gone to the medium.

I was in the medium for three years. Should have never been there. Right. Every council. I would walk in. They'd open my jacket and they'd look at and they'd go, what the fuck are you doing here? Yeah. What are you doing here?

Yeah. I was in max. I was in max security for seven years. Well, all of my Max and the whole bit I was in Max Security But they have like they have a level two And four and then one And I was in level

For four and a half years Which is like your max You're 22 hours a day locked up And then they dropped me down to the level two Which is still max But it's you know But you get like Your own key to yourself

They only lock you down during count time Or an night You know So it's a little more movement And stuff like that but it's still max and it sucks. But yeah, it's a high, it's a high stress environment. And everybody's on eggshells because, you know, it's just so much violence and danger.

And because of the mental problems of every, you know, so much anger, you know, that's why. When you're in a Fed joint, like you're in a medium or low, fed joint, it's kind of like everyone's like, this is not so bad. You know, you just make the best of it, do some writing, you can do your teaching, you whatever it is. you do, you know, your cellmate is probably not in here for multiple murders. I mean, I probably had 10 bunkeys that were murderers. You know, it's crazy. One of them used to sit there and talk to himself, blah, blah, blah, blah, all my. And he talked to himself in third person, like he would say, John, what are you doing?

What do you mean? What am I doing? I'm sitting here working on my case. What are you doing? I don't think you work on your case. I mean, it was weird, man, but he was serious. His name is Cochran. His name is Stefan Cochran.

I still remember his name, level four, one of my first bonds. Anyways, yeah. Hopefully, me and you will never see that place again. So we're, you know what I'm saying? Ever. Listen, I get off probation in about, what's today? About three weeks. Why are you on probation?

I was on probation for five years. I have supervised release for five years. Oh, okay. Okay. You've been home five years? In three more weeks. It's crazy. crazy yeah i've been home going in eight going in eight years yeah that's great it's so funny because

i was going to say uh like a month ago my probation officer stopped by and uh she they'd pull my you know they have to pull my financial crime so they pull my credit and that they have to see my bank account like i have to provide a certain packet every month well she pulled my credit and she was like you have a new trade line you took out a credit card for seven thousand dollars and i went so and i said well if i can't spend more than 500 bucks without permission. And I went, yeah, well, I said, oh, no, I said, I had to get a new computer for, for, um, the podcast. And she says, how much was the computer? I go 3500. She has, it's 3500. I said, no, you know, she's why do you have a $7,000 credit card? I said, because I,

I, I, I, you apply for a credit line to get the computer. The computer was only 3,500, but they said, hey, you, you can spend up to $7,000. Yeah. I said, I've already paid, you know, the $3,500. I said, is all I spent. And she's, it's still over 500. She has, it's, it's Matt you cannot and I go look it was for work I wasn't I didn't even think about it she said she goes you're so close you're so close to me all I can't believe how what douchebags they are what you know I mean look I you know I'm saying like I get I she's like just you know she's like I would have said yes just don't do it again she's just she's you're so close and I remember thinking like she's she was so serious about it I was thinking bro you're so close like don't get

your shit violated. Yeah. Because you, and she would have approved it. If I have to fly somewhere, I have to fill out a form. Yeah, I did that. But you know what I'm saying? What if you slip one day? You get so comfortable, you're like, oh, I'll be there tomorrow.

Yeah. And then I drive to Miami. They could violate you. I could go back to prison for a year. No, I know. No, I didn't. I, there was a couple times where, like, I had to get permission to go on a camping trip, right?

And while I was up there camping, like I said, let's say for five days, But the weather was so nice and everything was good. I'm like, let's stay another day. Oh, on the sixth day, my PO went to my house, knocks on the door. I'm not there. So when I get back, he's like, yo, where were you? There's a note on the door. I was here where you?

I told him, I said, man, listen, I was up there camping. I'm, you know, 400 miles away. All the woods and trout fishing. He's like, you can't do that, though. You got to tell me. He was cool. He said, you can't do that. I could have went back to prison.

I have a 50-year tell. 50 so when I was on parole they could have put me back in for 50 years so I was like right so that's no I had to act right but oh my PO was pretty cool he understood that I wasn't ever going back I'm gonna act right I mean you know he was an outdoorsman so he'd like fishing hunting and so did I and I live up north in the middle of the woods and stuff so he got it just walked right you're almost got a couple of weeks bro and then you can do whatever freak you want then you go to Miami go on fresh and fit that's what you need to do you get it you'd be good you'd be good for fresh and fit listen i have a buddy who's reached out to them several times they've said they want to interview me but we've just never scheduled it like every it keeps they're like hey what about this day and i'm like well first of all i can't leave in four i can't be there in four days it's in miami i'm not going to get approved within four days yeah yeah like you have to give me a few weeks and i had a podcast i had like a podcast scheduled that day anyway but that's not the point it's like you don't seem to understand you have to give me a little bit of yeah sometime from that well who

me up because I need to get a hold of those guys and I don't know how because as we're promoting this thing I'm pretty sure they would enjoy my story and they would like yeah and I have a really interesting take on love um and and dating in relationships they probably won't agree with a lot of it which is perfect for their podcast I'm going to say listen bro you think ass and titties and youth are what's important to a girl dipping your dick is that that ain't nothing just come see me when you're 45 50 and you're sick you got cancer in your bed you're your bank bankrupt they get in the car accident that the fake titty's in the ass that chick's gone and as long as the money's got you you need to find a real woman who's going to have your back

here's a woman you say honey here's the codes to the bank accounts right do the do the you handle the taxes I'm busy and you can trust her and if she buys honey what's that and I heard some crash like and the only thing she's going to buy is like some gardening tools or something she's not going to buy a thousand dollar coach bag or whatever because that ain't what she's into i said that's the type of woman you need to find i was able to pull a high value woman to wait seven years for me from a prison cell a woman who didn't have any kids was a hundred thousand dollar a year sales executive for a new york publisher and was willing to fall in love of me and wait seven years for me to come home and marry me i said that should tell you something about my characters who i am and said your girls are gone

the second you stop paying her rent and her car payment that's it i'm not saying that to them i'm just saying that that's a lot of the guys that they deal with you know they're like and they're all like oh well the value they put the value on the woman she's past 30 years old and child bearing she has no worth well all i'm looking for is a fake tits and ass i'm like bro listen you have no idea because you think that you're young when you're 50 and you suddenly get a lump on your back and the doctor says man you got cancer bro you know you're going to to be fighting for the next couple years and uh that that that chick you can't take out to miami nightclubs in the lambo anymore she ain't gonna be there taking care of your ass and you got a

catheter and she gone and they but the chick that actually loves you she's gonna so i would love to have that conversation with those guys so you can hook me up you know what i'm saying you know yeah they have a narrow minded they have a very kind of a narrow mind like i there's some of the stuff i agree with and some of it you know me too i agree with most and Yeah, yeah. I would say it's probably 80, 20. Yes. But, you know, they're young.

Exactly. And it plays to their audience. Yes, yes. You know, it's like, you know, the... Well, here's another thing that Myron or Byron or whatever his name says, are you going to use this part of the podcast? You could. He probably. I don't care of you.

You're welcome to you. Colby will, he'll put whatever he wants in. Yeah, I don't use it all. I don't care. Byron, Myron. I think his name is Myron, right? I think I like him but he I mean but there are some things he's really first of all I've heard him say multiple times I don't care if Mike if the girl gets off like if you if he doesn't care about giving the girl orgasm I say if you can't if you if you if you don't care about giving your girl a girl a oh trust me she's going to cheat on you you're going to get worked like a punk and a simp your whole life if you don't care enough to put enough effort and energy or don't have the know-how or ability to make your girl have an orgasm 100% you're going to get work you you're going to get cheated on 100%.

You're not going to ever keep a girl around because you can't specify a girl. Now, in your mind, you're like, well, I got a Lamborghini, and I make a bunch of money, and I got a big house, and I'm paying her rent, I'm paying her a car. Yes, while you're at work, she's going to be getting dick from that dude over there that's actually laying the pipe, like a man. So, I mean, you need to either take some classes, learn, like, some commissutra type of stuff if you don't know how, if you don't know how to make a girl hit the, oh. But, I mean, like, I disagree with that. I feel like if that's your partner and someone you care about, whether it's your girl, your wife or whatever, you think your primary focus in the bed should be hers first.

And then, and then yours, you know what I'm saying? I don't know how you feel about that, but that's why. I'm easy. Huh? Like, I'm easy. Yeah. So you've got to focus on her first. Right, right, right.

I'm good because I'm easy. Maybe too. I'm usually going on any time. I'm really, but I'm going to make sure that she goes. at least two, three times. And then I'm like, okay, I feel like I can go ahead and, like, I'm good now. You know what I'm saying? Like, she's satisfied.

But the dude who just goes on and home, I'm home for 30 seconds, goes, and throws her away, says, all right, I won't have a sandwich. But you think that shit thinks of you. First thing she's going to do is so as you walk out of the room, she's texting her boyfriend. Like, you know, but you're the dummy who's going to be paying her car or rent or bills in her house. She's going to act like she likes you, but she, you know, that's what Sips do. and he talks about sims all the time that's the problem the dudes talk about they're always

dogging on sims but bro you're doing it you're the same thing i would tell i would say that to their face i would have that conversation with them and you're like listen i like you guys and like you said 80% of what you say agree with the 20% that i don't agree with you is because of youth you're just young you just don't yeah you don't know yet one day you will one day you'll get it and you'll realize that a woman's value is not about her ass and titty you know what i'm saying you'll get to the point Well, that's one of the least things of that matter. You know what I'm saying? It's what's in here and what's in here.

Well, it's always going to be what's in the heart. Like, is she good, honest, honorable, trustworthy, caring, kind? That's what mattered. Second, is she intelligent? Can I carry on a conversation with her that's an intelligent conversation? Can we talk about politics or religion or science or travel or whatever it is? If the answer is no to any of those, we can't date. We can be have a sexual relationship if I'm young, but when I'm 40 years old or 50 years old, I'm not looking for a sexual relationship anywhere.

I had enough of those, you know what I'm saying? And so they're at the point now, and they're just in her early 20s, or early 30s, they're still at that kind of. And here's the other thing about those dudes. And I like them, but like the, fresh is the other one. Because he's kind of a dork, which I'm sure he'd admit. And I think they're both late bloomers. Byron said that he

didn't lose his virginity until he was like 19 years old and I think the other guy was probably somewhere in the same boat so I think neither one of them got a lot of girls when they were young so they never got laid a lot

they got no attention from the girls but then they started this podcast and it blew up and now they got all they get all these skanky girls from Instagram they throw themselves that's awesome but now they're like this is great I got all these girls

and they're like you're making up for lost time because you know most guys when they're 16 to 25, you know, they have their fun. And to that, they start slowing down. They may start looking for a serious girl. You know, maybe I want to sell down and have a kid or whatever, but they're not. But they're going to get there. You mark my word, me and you, they will get to the point.

In the next six, seven, eight, ten years, we're like, dude, I've had enough of fake ass and tits. I'm ready for a decent woman. And if you treat them the way you see them now suck so objectively, you will, you won't find a good one they won't want you so you know because money can't buy love you know I'm saying unless right ask your wife you're married right yeah yeah you got great teeth you're a super handsome dude you look like a male model you didn't realize it you're pretty boy I mean you'd like to in state joint I'm the San Sam home yeah that's what I heard

some of those guys they they tried they were very friendly when I first got there I was handsome pretty good everybody was off everybody wanted to buy me tennis shoes and buy me commissary. And I was like, no. Are you joking or serious? Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Multiple guys going to get me. You need anything? No. I don't need anything.

You know, I'm looking for me a friend. Well, it's a friendly place. You'll find somebody. Yeah, yeah. I feel a little, little, like, slighted that they didn't try that on me. But I guess this is what I look like. You know what I'm saying? I was like, I wasn't a pretty boy. I was young.

I do remember being in the county jail. when I was 19 years old this black dude though Brickin said to me he's like when you ever go to the joint they're going like you because I was a pretty boy I sound like it's pretty cool I'm like I'm like what's that even mean you know what I'm saying but because I was a tough guy I was like I might have been a pretty boy but I was a fighter I

actually I didn't whip that dude but like that dude who said that got in a fight with my boy in myself and then started winning the fight so I jumped in and like I whooped the dude so I end up whooping that dude some black dudes you know some stocky black dude

and uh and so and let him know i'm not just another pretty face but anyways bro so well god bless you man i listen get off probation and um and then you can go do whatever you want go down and fresh and fit um maybe get on uh patrick bet david were you on patrick fit david i've already been on patrick that's what i thought i thought so i thought that guy you've seen i talked to mario one time about being on his show but but then they never got back but um but yes i do remember in fact that's the only time i that's so i watched patrick david and so he's like when the only youtube was i actually walked and that's where i learned about your story that's why i watched it and it was compelling and i watched the whole thing i learned a lot and i was

like man i was like well i knew a guy who was kind of like you to a degree a little bit of a black dude his name was lucky and he was a cyber scammer and like a fraudulent and like he can take a loan out on your house without you even knowing and tons of stuff like that and it was like you with on a smaller level and uh so i was fascinated and i always think damn it man like this guy you hadn't figured out you know what i'm saying even though you didn't even though you didn't yeah but in hindsight bro you and i both know had you done that had you not made some of the stupid mistakes you made you probably could have pulled it off for a while maybe maybe i don't think much. I try not to think about it. Don't think about it. But you had a good run. You

know what I'm saying? You had a good run. Did you have fun while you did it? Oh yeah. I was love when people were like like when I was on the run for three years and people always like, you know, where they always say like, man, it must have been stressful. And I'm always like actually it's like the best part of my life. Yeah. No, man. Ball in. Yeah. And I'm I mean, I had I had driver's licenses issued by the DMV. I got passports issued by the state department. Like, yeah. I've got money. Like, it wasn't, I wasn't scared. Like, oh, my God, that cop looked at me.

Like, I'll talk to that cop. Yeah. He can say, give me your ID. Absolutely. Here's my ID. Yeah. I got pulled over. I've been pulled over multiple times.

I went to traffic school as somebody else because I got so many tickets in his name. I was going to lose the guy's license. That's fun. That's fun. I'm not worried about it. That's funny. Yeah, but. And I didn't want to lose his license.

I got a car. Well, I had a car in his name. You know, I've got a car. I think I had two cars in his name. You know, I can't lose this guy's license. I mean, fuck, I got two vehicles in his name. How did you get caught eventually? Um, you know, eventually, uh, Dateline, uh, there's a TV show code.

You've heard that. Yeah, I know, they were coming out with a one hour special on me. And, you know, I'm on the run and I thought there already been a bunch of newspaper articles and magazine articles, but those are, you know, I'm not worried about that, right? So those are kind of local and I don't know anybody that reads like Fortune magazine like you know and the newspaper articles are like in tampa they're not where i was i was living in nashville by that point and i found out dateline was coming out and i thought oh i'm fucked i mean let's face it even if nobody notices you right away they keep playing that over and

over again one day you're going to walk into or one day the barista at starbucks yeah is going to be laying in bed he's going to watch an hour episode of dateline he's going to be like my fuck that that guy comes in all the time yeah and then he's going to call the fucking secret service or U.S. Marshals or FBI, they're going to sit in the fucking Starbucks for three days. And I'm going to walk in one day. And he's going to be like, so I knew it was, it was just over. And so we started pulling money out of the bank and I was going to go to Australia. Because Australia at the time had what, uh, you could go to Australia with 200 grand.

I was going to go with a couple million. So, but the minimum was 200 grand, a business plan and, um, and they would make you a permanent resident alien so so you can't vote but they give your driver's license you can buy property you can't take a job but you could open a business so they want to show up open a business hire awseys you can buy a house yeah and if i show up with a couple million dollars you're good and i'm gonna be good and i had a i had a passport in the name of a guy that had never been arrested and the other thing was if you showed up they it was to the permanent resident alien is what they called it if you showed up as a permanent resident alien they didn't fingerprint you

so that was the big thing they're not going to fingerprint me i just have to show up and their fingerprint base is probably not connected to the americans well no they they would that's the problem you could apply for citizenship but they had they would run your prints again from the FBI. Oh. It was like, that's out. But they don't print you if you just show up and you hand them a copy of your, like you can go to local police station and they'll run your criminal record. That's fine. You show up and you give them, here's my criminal record. They don't run your finger from it. Right. And the guy I had the passport in the name of, he doesn't have a criminal record. That plus a couple million and a couple, two or three business plans, I'm going, I'm straight in.

Yeah, your good life. Yeah, well, it didn't get that far because my. girlfriend that I was dating at the time knew who I was. She invited in a friend. That friend called the Secret Service. She negotiated a reward. They washed my house for three days. How much was the reward? $10,000. Oh my God. Right. Like so insulting. I mean, she could have just went to you and said they're offering 10. What can you do? I have said that over it. If she had shown up, I'd have given her half a million dollars for a fucking 10 minute head start. Yeah. You can still call Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just give you 10 minutes.

Yeah, 10 minutes. You'll never find me. Nope. Yeah. How stupid. Stupid people are. 10 grand. That's insulting.

That's insulting. Listen, bro. So all meant to be, it's all part of God's plan. It's all part of your life. It's all part of your testimony. Now, because of that, you've been on Patrick Beck, David, you've been on Dayline. You have a good podcast.

You know these people. You've making connections. You're growing up for five years out. You're doing really well. And you're going to do a lot. better so just keep up the good work all part of the plan you're a super smart guy bro if you can't take what you know and hear what you've done and leverage it to some kind of success in life then then something's wrong because you have an advantage you got you know people don't don't have

your type of you know what is your plan right now besides podcasts I'm interviewing you now I said we should wait to do your program your radio show yeah I will so You know, when I was locked up, I wrote, I want to say I wrote like five or six books, a fellow inmate. They were true crime. You know, I wrote a memoir and then I wrote a bunch of guys, a couple of guys' memoirs and then some true crime. I've written a couple since I got out. And then I wrote about 22 or 23 synopsies.

Like maybe there are maybe 10,000 words, you know, people's story. So I've, I signed a first look with two different companies. One is law and crime, and they're currently calling several of the guys' stories, and they're supposed to be doing, you know, they have to have so many people to make a documentary, you know? Sure. So it's either going to be a few episodes, some guys' stories will be maybe an episode, maybe an hour-long doc, right? And then some guys, they're trying to turn into like a three-part or a four-part series for a doc. And then the other one is my own personal story. I signed with a company called Foundation Media.

And they're currently working on a series, a limited series, like seven, eight episodes. You know, they don't know where they're going to sell it. They're still putting everything's being put together. I'm working with a writer. The whole thing is, you know, who knows what's going to work, bro? Like to me, and this is the way I look at it. I'm enjoying going through the process. I'll probably get more enjoyment out of just going to just going.

through the process and meeting everybody and talking to them and working with everybody because I have a feeling I'm going to go and I'm going to eventually it'll be it's like getting a movie made you have I'm trying to have a good time while I make the movie because of my fear is I'm going to walk in a movie theater watch the two-hour movie and walk out and be like eh it's all right you know what I'm saying but that's how I feel you never know bro my you might listen if that happens I'm going to tell you why it happens because the writing is bad see I don't know, I'm a professional writer. I write for a living.

I'm a storyteller. I'm a professional writer. I'm an elite level writer. So I could take your story. And if I was to write your book, it would be incredible. It would be incredible. They would, if they made a movie out of the book that I wrote on your life, it would, what's the movie with, uh, Linao or DiCaprio with the, um, the, you think, catch me

if you can. It would be something like that. It would, it would read like that. It would be like that. It would be better than that. I would write it better than that. That's how I'd write it. And I don't know.

You may have written these things. You may even be a writer. I don't know. Maybe you're a good writer. Maybe you're a great writer. I have no idea. But usually if you know, if you were like a born great writer, you would know by now. I'm a born great writer.

Or maybe you're like, I think I'm a good writer and great writer. But whatever case is, if your story is told the right way, it'll be amazing. And you'll walk out of that movie theater in tears. you walk out of tears because the ending is so good now how would we make that ending you could you could write the ending in the existence too that's kind of how we're going to do it but you can write a paradoxical ending the paradoxical ending of your book of the story is that a movie gets made based on your life that sets you for life even though a movie really isn't made but it is you see what I'm saying so the story is written so you're the story you're watching the screen

is the story that like you see it unfolding on the screen but as you make the movie there really was no movie until you finished the movie yeah yeah it's a paradox so that would be an interesting way

to end the story and then but there's a million things you could do too do you have any business aspirations I mean YouTube is doing great like what I'm doing the thing is right now

like everything's working it's working slowly and it's a grind but I'm not really doing anything that I don't enjoy doing, if that makes sense. Like I'm, I've managed to create a pretty good life for myself. And it's, and it all seems to be just getting better and better and better. So, you know, business idea, like, other than maybe buying rental properties in the future, you know, that sort of thing. Other than that, I have no real business aspirations as far as opening a business.

think you're so smart in terms of that type of thing where you could i mean like you said rental properties tax lien properties this is a lot of ways to juggle money you know what i'm saying and make money from money with without money you know i'm saying you know you got a seven thousand credit line, right? If I had a, you know, a $7,000 credit line, I said, right now I can take the $7,000 and I'll turn it to $20,000. You say, you got a month. You got one month, take $7,000 and turn to $20,000. You can't break the law. You mean, if I said that to you, I bet you'd find a way to do it. I'd probably break the law. No, no, no. No, you would. No, I've had to figure something out. You would do it. You would. If I said, I'm going to give you, I'll give you $7,000, you have

turned it in the 20 by the end of the month. within one month, I guarantee you with a mind like yours, you'll go, oh, 100%, dude, this won't even be hard to be like, all right, I take this and I do that. I mean, it could be something as easy, what I would do, because I'm not as complex as you in terms of that type of realm of business and things, money, but I would just flip. I would buy and sell something, you know, here's what I would do. In Michigan, you can buy boats for cheap, both, right? I can buy a boat for $7,000 in Michigan and drive it down the Key West and sell it for a $20,000.

That's to be an easy thing. You know what I'm saying? You know, that's how easy it could be. You can literally do it that easy. Just put it on the truck, drive it to the freaking Key West. That same boat up in Michigan, it only gets used two, three months a year down there is high value. Up here, it's almost worthless, you know what I'm saying? There's a million of them up here.

You can get them for cheap. Yeah, I got you thinking, bro, huh? I always wonder why people don't finance boats like the individuals why don't why not go buy a cheap like you said cheap boat renovated a little bit and then sell it and finance it you can put a tracker on it you know people just don't do that you mean so let's sell it to somebody else and let them pay you the rent you pay you the pay yeah yeah like if like if you buy a boat for a thousand dollars you put whatever you renovate the boat you sell it and you sell it you put it up just like for used cars you say hey i'll sell it to you for

four grand five grand give me a thousand down now but it's a much nicer boat give me a thousand dollars the worst that happens is you lose your your elbow grease that you put into it you're going to at least get your money back but the truth is even if half of those boats went bad and you're selling them for five you're still tripling your money they're not going to go bad though you're only going to have one out of every 20 go bad that's what i'm saying and people don't really that that's but for some reason people don't do that because they don't understand financing and they don't understand i i just help you create a multi-million dollar business plan right i'm doing good i like what i'm doing i'm just saying right right if you just did what you

just said right right there i mean i can help you get to boats boom you'll be in business and then what you do is you start like a um like an an app where guys find the boats and they clean them up before you know it you can have a boat boat finder app and like And then your company is selling boats all over the country. You've got like 5,000 boats being tracked. But boom, you're a multi-millionaire. Patrick Beck-David. You're back on Patrick Big David, man.

I was having this conversation with Gunner Limbom. You know Gunner Limbom's freaking guy? Yeah, it tells me, he said, make money on boats. I got the thinking, you know what? Why don't people do this? Which is actually a good deal. Or cars, though, cars, too. Well, that's what's so funny.

People do that now. Buy here, pay here. Buy here. Yeah, buy here. Exactly. And I'm sure some people do it on boats, but, you know, they, I've never heard of it, no, and that people really do that. And the nice thing is now it's how easy it's to track where the boat is. You just throw a little GPS day on there.

You're good, a little GPS thing in the job. Right, especially if they don't know about it. No, you're not telling them. You just show up at the barbecue one day if they stop paying. They're at the dock. You're like, yo, bro, you ain't paid in three months, man. time to pay up everybody got money party's over or pay up anyways well yeah listen when you are gonna when you do want if you do want to do an episode let me know on for the radio I do I do I

do 100% want to do that I will send you an invite yeah I'll have my wife send you an invite I have email now so I'll send you an invite and get you on and it won't be as long because we only have an hour, you know, but still, you got a great story. And I want to hear it all in detail. I remember it all from Pat to Back David. I listened to it. It's one of those shows where I usually don't even watch those type of shows through, but you were interesting. And I enjoyed you. So I remember. And plus, A.J. said, you got to go on Matt Cox, and like a couple other people said the same thing. I don't even remember, but we had an exchange about two years ago. Yeah, then it just fizzled out. It was sizzled out. Somebody said, I forgot whatever. We both

I don't think I was doing remote podcasts at the time. No, or you're just doing it in person. Yeah, so you would have had to have come here. Yeah, yeah. Or something, because I only started doing this a few years ago. But hey, let me wrap, let me wrap this up. And when we're off screen, I'll talk to you about it. Yeah, yeah, right, do what you got to do.

All right, hold on one second. Hey, if you like the video, do me a favor, hit the subscribe button. I'm going to leave all of Gunner's links to all of his books and the other things that we were talking about. So all of his social media links and everything will be in the description. So check them out, click on them, follow, subscribe, do all the stuff. Also, leave me a comment and do me a favor and try and consider joining my Patreon. It's $10. We may cut up some of the content that you haven't seen and put it on Patreon.

we're going to be putting at least an hour every single week of specific to Patreon content. So I really appreciate you guys watching. See ya.