Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - What Prison Will Be Like For SBF...

Episode Date: December 2, 2023

What Prison Will Be Like For SBF...

He became a multi-billionaire in the span of, not even 18 months. And ultimately, it collapses. Let's assuming he gets roughly around 20 years. I think actually going to the prison is going to be shocked. They tell you a strip, bend over, cough, spread your cheeks. Can you imagine, like, in his mind, like, this is mind-boggled. His ability to get these constant visits, he's not getting them. His problem is going to lie in dealing with the guilty people.

County jail and prison, the mentality of the people are very. very vastly different. He's going to have to deal with the personality flash of it. Sam Bankman-Fried was found guilty. Yes. And, you know, I did, and I did a couple, I've done a couple of videos on him. Well, I mean, what were you doing the videos on? Like, just the fact that it was fraud.

Yeah, just, just, well, I mean, I don't think, first of all, he was running around trying to tell everybody it wasn't fraud. It was, it was during the time period when he was, he was doing his little media spin. tour, you know, like, oh, you don't understand what was happening and this isn't what happening. This isn't what was happening. What I was doing was perfectly legal. And, and at the same time, you're, you're finding out that his girlfriend and the upper management of the company are in the middle of being debriefed by the FBI. And they've all flipped on him. Well, did they, did they not, when they interviewed him? They questioned him, like, specifically

about the things that were going on. Like, but isn't it true that, like, right now, like, two billion of people who on exchange money is missing. Oh, well, that's, you know, I can explain that. Yeah, he, you know, the problem with him is, and I, and I said this before, is that, you know, he's, he's, he's, he suffers from that I'm the smartest guy in the room syndrome. You know what mean? And he spends it and people, he's got a little, a little, a little, I'm a brilliant, weirdo you know he that that's kind of what his whole push is like hey you know yeah i'm you know like he's like he's got like a touch of out autism or something you know and so he's he's playing on the he's playing a video game while he's at a board meeting asking for uh you know 500 million

dollars or something and they're like wow i love this guy like he's like a he's like an idiot savant and really he's just he's not that he's not smart but he's young and arrogant and he just thinks he's so smart he can convince anybody of anything right but recognize matt this fortune came to him overnight like what what like he became a multi-billionaire in the span of not even a year not even 18 months right he went from zero to 100 like all the way out there well i mean i think some people would be you know realize that there was a little bit of luck behind well i mean if look if you're young and arrogant and smart and you go out and you start a company and you suddenly start making a ton of money right

away. You start to think, well, yeah, I've just got it all figured out. I'm just brilliant. But there's lots of brilliant people. And, you know, there's still, there's still things that go wrong along the way. And you have to take responsibility for that. And he didn't. And then, of course, he's lying about it. And then, of course, it catches up with him. And then the company start going under. And, you know, everybody knows kind of how that fell apart. And then he does, then it does, does his little media tour where he's trying to tell everybody how he you know it's not really his fault it's not his fault or first it's like it first of all it starts off with don't like it's like don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain you know what I mean like don't

don't pay attention to the fact that the market is crumbling or imploding right or people are saying it's built on nothing and that all the people in the know are now cooperating with the FBI saying and providing documents that show that I knew it was a fraud. Don't pay attention to that. They're lying. What? They're lying. They made up the they made it all up. Still go to my exchange. Still use me to buy your bitcoins, please. Right, right. Well, your cryptocurrency, it wasn't Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. Cryptocurrency. That's a better term. So, so yes.

What I've learned during this process is there is a difference between Bitcoin, and cryptocurrency and so he yeah you know look he basically was printing money and using that money to buy different businesses and get himself out of a jam and ultimately it collapses and he ends up getting i don't know if he ended up did he get extradited or did he eventually just agree to come to the u.s when i think it was obviously he was coming so regardless he ended up i want to say he was he was extradited but maybe i'm wrong maybe he just finally agreed they started the process. I know that. Comes to the U.S. gets bond. I think he does turn himself in. Right. Well, you know, he was, he was in the, I want to say was it, I'm probably going to get this wrong too. Is it Virgin Islands? Virgin Islands? Yes. Oh, was it? So, and, and he, they started the extradition process. And I think they put him in jail in the Virgin Islands. And he very quickly realized, oh, I can't do me in jail in Virgin Islands. Like this is, this place is horrendous. So then I think he, you're right. Then I think he said, okay, I'll come. So. So. So. So, then he comes to the United States, and then he gets bond, which you and I would never get.

You and not even, well, I mean, of course, one, because we both already had, you know, fraud charges in the past. So skip that. Let's assume neither one of us did. Like the amount, the amount of money that was missing in his case and the overwhelming amount of evidence and all of these people that were cooperating. And he still got bond. Like, there's just, it's, it's insane. You know, I'm going to tell you that just goes to the constitutional right for bond. And so anytime it's televised, you get bond. Yeah. You know, you're right. And look, I'm not saying you shouldn't get bond.

Like I'm not like I think you're constitutionally. You're supposed to be constitutionally guaranteed, you know. Right. That's what I'm saying is that like he got bought. Not that he shouldn't have gotten bond, but you wouldn't get bond. I wouldn't get bond Like it needs to be fair across the Like if you're not going to give anybody bond

Then don't give anybody bond But don't give him bond Because like you said Because it's being televised Give everybody that's That's the only time they get bond People who just can make Yeah

Right if you're fighting them Yes I was love there was that rap song There was the rap song where the guys go He's like I'm not cooperating and so I can't get Bond. You know?

Like, he's so true. Imagine finding true words in rap music. Yeah. Oh, gosh. So, yeah. He gets bond, but do you know how he blew? How did he blow bond and he had to go back into custody? Because for trial, he was in custody.

Yeah, I think there was like a, I don't want to say there was like, maybe there was a gag order. I think there was a gag order and he ended up leaking information to the, whatever, the New York Times or somebody, he ended up talking to them or giving them information or something and they ended up revoking his bond. And then when he got there, he started putting emotions like he wanted a special vegetable diet. Oh, yes. I remember that. He only eats certain foods. Yeah, it's like, oh, bro, you have a rude awakening. Yeah. Yes.

A nationwide menu root of awakening. Yes, he is. Yeah. So go ahead. So he's facing supposedly 114 years, which is the statutory maximum for yes, yes, yes, yes, I know. What is your speculation that he'll get? He got found guilty on all the counts. Right.

So what do you think he'll get? First of all I was going to say, he testified, right? You know, he testified, which. is typically, you know, typically a mistake unless you're come off really, really credible, right? But he testified, and I don't think he comes off credible. I think that when you put 20 different people on the stand that all say you're guilty and you have all this evidence that proves you're guilty, and then they put him on the state, like, I don't know.

I wonder why he even went to trial. although I would like to say I do know several especially in a high profile case a lot of times if you do go to trial like they may have come to him and said we're offering you 30 years and he said I'm not doing 30 years and he said and he said I'll go to trial and of course one his lawyers think hey we can make a chunk of money so let's take him to trial we'll make a bunch of money he must have had a chunk of money left right well his family had some money and their friends and I'm sure that throughout this whole process. He's still got some people fooled. So he's got some money. So even if let's say it's half a million dollars, you know, half a million dollars for whatever it was, a two or three week trial, still a nice payday. So the lawyers go, they do the trial, they put him on the stand. He's not a great witness because they can dispute a lot of what he's saying. Yeah. And so, you know, Not that I think there was any way to save him. But here's the thing about going to trial sometimes.

Sometimes they offer you 30 years and you go to trial and you get 20. So it was worth it for you to go to trial. And in this case, especially in high profile cases, they treat you very fairly. So he'll probably end up with 20 years. Oh, I think he's getting 20. But that's all I think he's getting. What? That's not a minimum.

There's no mandatory. minimum in his crime. Yo, you think he'll get less? Yes. It was billions. Yes. So guideline-wise, guideline-wise, he'll probably score out to about between nine and about 13.

No way. He has no priors, Matt. He's a zero. Yeah, but his dollar loss is off the chart. It's at the top. So it would give him 28 levels. Okay, well, what about all the enhancements? Oh, yeah, well.

I mean, they're sophisticated means. That wouldn't see that would be that would take him to life. That would take him to life. Well, I think them, I mean, look, in the end, I'll bet you the judge is going to take into consideration his age. You know, he's made a mistake. They're going to play up the fact that he's young. He's arrogant. He didn't know what he was doing.

He's never run a business. And keep in mind, during the trial, he's, he's, also relied on professional responsibility reliance on professional responsibility or reliance on a professional whatever I forget the exact term but it basically says hey you know I was relying on like my CPA or I relied on in his case he said my lawyer backed up all my lawyers were telling me this was okay now of course that's not true because then they show that but that was what he was pushing was like I talked to my lawyers they were saying that this is okay and I didn't realize realize and I made some mistakes and, you know, obviously we didn't know how to run a business

and golly gee was, I'm so sorry. I still think he gets 20 years. I think it gets probably roughly 20. No? I don't think we go back to this. Yeah, take a bet because on March 28th, we can go back to this. Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Because it's seven charges that equals 114 or whatever years. So that means the statutory maximum doesn't exceed 20 years. You know what I'm saying? Otherwise, so one of them might have a 10 year statutory max. So they would have to stack a couple of charges. Well, I shouldn't say he's not. I should, I'm praying that he doesn't. Yeah, I was going to say like, look, I'm not saying it's exactly 20. It may be 22. It may be 17. It's going to be in that range of 20, I think. I think. That I might give you.

Because I think it would be under 15, but that's my, that's my goal. I think it'll be under 15. Elizabeth Holmes got, I'm going to say, and I can be off on this slightly, but I think she got like 13 years. And honestly, I thought she should have gotten, I thought she was going to get 20 years. Really? I was off on that. See how you're wrong.

Hey, and, and she got three years taking off. She's under 10 now. Remember, I told you, I know a couple of people that are in there with her. And she's going to get, what is that, first step act? Is that the, oh, yes, yes. She's probably going to run about five or six. Right. So here's the thing, even if Bainte-Mefried gets, let's say he gets 20, with good time, he's going to get, he's going to do 17.

He's going to get another probably four years off with the first step act for programming, which he'll program like a motherfucker. Oh, they're doing that. Their dates are changing constantly now. People are programming. Don't you wish we had that? So ridiculous, bro. Ridiculous. All the good shit happens, like, when I'm not, when I'm not able to take advantage.

I remember, too, remember the crack law? Remember the crack law? Everybody was like, they were getting out of crack law and they were like, damn, Cox, you should have been selling crack. That's the problem. What was I thinking? What was I thinking? So anyway, you curse you bank fraud.

So he was found. He was found guilty. Huh? He was found guilty. Yes. I think really what the purpose of the whole, I mean, this whole, you know, and you, you, it's funny that you actually texted me and said, hey, we should do something on this. And I was thinking, I think you've ever texted me to say we should be something on anything.

But basically, you know, you said, this is what you said a couple days ago because I actually went and I was, did out somebody's podcast. So it was gone for a few days or we were done this like three days ago. three, four days ago, which would have been like a day after he was found, you know, guilty. Because the shock value, because of the little war, the wars going on, the shock value of it just kind of came and to flash in the pants. Yeah, we could have rid we could have ridden that wave. You could have ridden a way. So, so where is he from?

I'm trying to figure out where he'll go. Because, you know, because of the first step act, they, you know, the BOP is short staff. So they've made a couple of new places lows. like they've closed some of the places in West Virginia like all of that I think it's Edgewood West Virginia is now a low you know what I'm saying so they've they've expanded the low because believe it or not that that first step act with that programming has cut the violence almost in half statistic wise in the BOP oh really yes everybody's behaving now oh yes and programming people like hey I need the program like if you're losing 15 days per month off your sentence like

every month your people can go and look at your release date and it's shorter 15 days it's it's like people are losing their mind programming imagine us teaching classes they'd be fighting to get it i'm gonna say could you imagine people stabbing each other to try and get a spot in your class listen and i used to if i can't get in this guy's drop my name off that list i used to you know remember i used to charge people that didn't want to program like they don't want to do it they just got on they got on the role you're supposed to be here you don't want to come and i'd be like listen, give me like two creamers and a coffee, you know, like, and I'll fill out your paperwork and I'll make sure you get your certificate. Now it'd be like, hey, it's going to be a little bit of

money. It's going to be like three creamers, eight coffees. I'm going to give you a list. That's extortion. Give me the list, Matt. That's extortion. I'm going right to the counselor. Yeah, I know what you're thinking. That's telling, right? That's telling. You think they were telling before. Listen, you know what's so funny? I did, so I did this, I didn't even do a TikTok. I did an interview where I mentioned that, that whole thing where this guy tried to extort me. And I explained the whole thing.

Like, I explained it exactly what happened. If you read the comments, 98% of them are, oh, this guy left out the spot. He left out the part where that guy. fucking raped him in the you know in the bathroom and it's like what or he left out the spot where he got he got shanked or yeah that would never happen bro this guy's full of shit you that would never happen these dude nobody would ever his his own people would straighten him out or he would be and it's like what are you doing bro i was at coleman low like even at the medium that wouldn't have happened you know right like they these guys have watched so much tv or they've been to a

state pin. It's like, okay, you were, and think about what you did to get to a state pin. You were breaking into people's houses, you were doing home invasions, you were doing, you were stealing cars, you were doing carjacking. Like, you were doing violent crimes. You ended up in a state prison and you saw there were a lot of gangs and people were getting punked out and extorted and they were getting like, that's an extremely serious prison. And they think in their mind and then they get home and they tell all their buddies they did five years they tell all their buddies what prisons like and that that kind of populates throughout their whole throughout the whole community and then of course they also see it on TV and they now everybody thinks they know how prison works right and now when you

tell them no this is what happened they go no he'd have been killed bro what are you doing like you did some time at a at a state pin or you did some time at a you did 45 days in the county jail and everybody in the county jail was telling you how how violent prison is and how horrible it is and and how but i went i was at a medium for three years nothing happened like that i didn't get extorted at the medium and then i went to then i went to a low and was somebody tried to extort me at the low and that didn't happen you know like i was like i'm not paying i'm not paying like give me your fucking list i'll take you to the counselor. Oh, you're going to snitch on me? Yeah, I'm going to snitch on you. Oh, okay. It ain't going to work out for you, bro. It ain't going to work out. I say, all right, well, we'll see. We'll see. And the guy left and I never heard about it again. I can't scare that. I can't scare that guy. I'm out of here. Yeah. And you know, what's so funny about it is like, you know, at the low, so many people had cooperated, right? Like 90% of those guys have cooperated and it I found out later like six months later or a year later I realized that this

guy had originally gotten he'd been locked up like 10 years the one yet tried to extort you yes he originally got like I think it was like 30 years or a life sentence and he had cooperated so much he'd gotten his sentence down like I think it was like life then went to 30 then from 30 went to like 22 then from 22 it went to like 18 or 19 and now he don't by that point he'd been locked up like 10 years so it's like he's he is and everybody knew like I didn't know so but you know slowly within a year they started I started realizing people were telling me well you know he cooperated right I'm like no I had no idea like I didn't know thought he was big tough guy and six foot six and um but he just you know he did he just tried me

you know it wasn't successful right he didn't have it he didn't have that spirit in it but i'm gonna tell you something in my mind that's an accomplishment i'm sorry but if you get a life sentence if you get out from under a life sentence however however you do it right that that is an accomplishment the fact that you will actually be free again when the judge what everybody intended for you never to see the light of day look you know it's funny i i did this guy i and b Mix podcast. And he was like, uh, we were talking. And he, we talked about cooperation. I told him that I, you know, yeah, I had cooperated. And he said, um, and we, we had this little discussion. And he's, and I said, yeah, I said, it's funny. I said, I don't know which one of us

said something about snitches get stitches. I said, to be honest with you and I said, it's been all upside for me. I got no stitches. I didn't have any real problems. Right. I had some problems, but not real problems. Nobody ever beat me up. Nobody ever like, none of that ever happened. So I hear you. I get it. It's a catchy phrase. Snitchers, good stutches. But in my case, it's been all upside. And then I did, sorry. He means from the laughter.

You know, right? It's so funny. He got me in stitches here, right? Listen, then he was like, like, well, what was your thought process or something? And I went, well, I had to weigh the respect of a bunch of criminals are 12 years off my sentence. I went with the 12 years. Like,

fuck the crunk. I was like, yeah, you're, you're not going to believe this. It wasn't a hard choice. No, not at all.

And so unfortunately for Mr. Bankman fried or freed, he's not, he's not going to enjoy those benefits. No, but let's say it gets 20 years. Let's go with 20. Maybe it gets less.

Either way, you think he'll go to a camp or he goes to a low. You think he goes to a low? lower well if he gets 20 i think he'll go to a low i think he'll go even even even oh yeah no yeah if he goes 20 he's definitely going to a low he can't go to a camp he's got to have less than 10 and if he gets more than 20 he's going to go to a medium he that's what i'm asking he's from he's from new york right yes you know so he'll go to he'll probably go to a low they'll start off at some low up up there like um what's what's the big spot that they all know

I don't know. I don't know any of the prisons up there. It's like, you know, I know like Beaumont. Is it Raybrook? Is it Raybrook? Is it? Yeah, I think so. Like, I just for some reason feel like prisons up north are, or at least in the New York area, are a little tougher. Um, no. Am I wrong? I don't. Yes. Yes, you are. Um, talking to the, so the, the ignorance is probably in the south and Florida. Like, I, I don't. I don't. Um, yes, you are. Um, talking to the, the, the ignorance is probably in the South and Florida. Like, I, I, I think we have a corner, and that in Texas. I think the South has a cornered the market on ignorance when it comes to those guys that are in prison. So you get a lot more stupid things that are being done, just like idiocy. So up north, it's a little more organized, and those guys don't just go for crazy things. They actually stand up for better things than they do now. south. And, but you know, all that's inmate.com. It's all going to depend on on the people that

you're locked up with. I can just say this for a fact of the, the FBOP have just been locking up. Like, I don't know, man. Federal, federal prisoners are not what they used to be at all. Yeah. Yeah. At all. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's very low. Yes. Um, so he's going to, he'll be sentenced in March. Let's, let's assuming he gets roughly around 20 years he's you know they'll immediately take off his gain time so he's he's in he's in county jail right now or he's a u.s marshals holdover yeah marshals holdover so he's probably single man selling it you know what i'm saying he probably doesn't have a lot of people he has to deal with right now and he gets visits visits

visits from lawyers family because he's right there at home where his parents can be there you know so he gets a ton of visits from them so he's he's not that occupied mentally. I think actually going to the prison is going to be for the prison is going to be a shock to him. He's going to have to deal with like an emotional shock because it's not going to be the same. He's he's he's gotten accustomed to being in custody. But the prison environment and the social structure is what's going to shock him. Because he's not going like Elizabeth home was free. She was free up until turned herself. And then they still gave her two weeks to turn herself in. I know people that they'll, they get months before they turn themselves in. Yes. But, let me say.

So one thing is that when you're in like the U.S. Marshall's holdover, which most of the time is, is located in a county jail of some kind, but you get a little bit different. You get treated a little different. So, so you have a, yeah, you basically,

you're not really going outside a lot. It's a, it's like you're never, leaving this the pod area i'm just saying for people that are watching so you're never really leaving the pod area but you don't think he's in a pod though do you man free bankman free you think he's like in locked being locked up yeah i think he i think he's by himself somewhere solitary you think he's in a pod with other people i don't think he's in i do i mean they still have cells in the pod right but i think they probably have a very very soft pod that they put him in. And I think they're watching him. You know, I think they probably got like,

hey, this is this guy. We're going to keep an eye. Like we listen, here's what the people don't realize. Like in the U.S. Marshall's holder, they don't want you to get hurt. It doesn't make them look good if you get hurt, especially a high profile guy like that getting hurt on their watch. They're going to make, and like you said, his lawyers are constantly coming. You know, his parents are coming. His family is coming. He's getting all kinds of interaction. He can't walk. He's not walking the track he's not able to do a lot of the stuff in some ways in a lot of ways prison has a lot more freedoms right right so it is now now they're going to intermingle him in with the people right so when he goes to he's going to be shipped to uh to a prison right um you know I mean unless he

already got out which I think he I don't ever didn't hear anything about him getting back out once he's not out he was he was led back into custody right after the guilty verdict so he's not going to get out all right so yeah i doubt it but yeah you're right yeah you're not going to let him out now like that'd be like they like anyway go ahead so well first of all he's not going to go anywhere his parents have that like that all the if they let him out they'd put a lien or they they'd his parents would put up their house again like he's not going to take off on his parents and have their parents lose their house he's not going to do that and he can't go anywhere anyway he's too

recognizable. He wouldn't make it. He wouldn't make it three days. That's if he stayed in a hotel room somewhere. So it's just not going to happen. And he couldn't go anywhere on the world. Like he's done. He's going to show up. Or he's probably like you said, he's already in custody. He's going to show up. So he's going to go through R&D. He's going to get through R&D. They're going to dress him out. They're going to, they tell you a strip, bend over, cough, spread your cheeks. He's going to be treated in a way that just like he's already being treated in a way that he is just, can you imagine like in his mind like this is mind boggling. but yeah do you remember the first time for you the for all that oh yeah that listen the when they you know they threw that delousing shit on you right yes i'm on me you know and then they they they throw it on you like they throw like this what if it's a white powder and they you know they and you kind of they they they squirt you with a squirt bottle and then they hose you down and then I mean you were just it's like this like I was more gentle with my dog washing my dog not that I wanted two guys to grab me and put me in a in a tub and scrub me down but it was just like in the whole bend over and cough and you know spread your

ass in the way they talk to you like I'd never been talked to like a complete dog you know they don't call you by your name you're inmate turn around do this do that bend over spread your cheeks cough uh it's like Jesus God like this is it was it's humiliating uh and not not that I'm sure his victims would would care how he was being treated it'd be like um so anyway yeah so I mean I remember it was it was horrible you know yes so um it's it's it's kind of the same mentality for all of us that like it's it's degrading And you go through it. That's what I think you have what I call a, I'm not going to say an out-of-body experience,

but I think it's kind of a split personality because what's happening is you're doing what they're saying, but your mind is actually like kind of giving you a, what is a narrative going like, I cannot believe. I always think of it as being like on autopilot. Yes. Right? Like you feel like almost like you've stepped. out and you're watching it happen and you're just you just become mindless you're like all right

right okay take the shirt off do this do that then okay fine you can't believe it's happening yes and that's exactly what your mind is saying yeah my mind was telling me like like can you like my mind saying i'm i'm still trying to trace the path to to this spot like what is it that we've done that's taken us from eating at fancy restaurants you know what I'm saying and yelling at a waiter because a steak is not medium rare like to lift your meat and cough can you imagine this point and me being yelled at about my own meat you know what I'm saying I was never I was never at the level this guy was at he's really like he's being babied by his family he's been like it's just you know You're buying property and living in other countries.

You're, you know, millions of dollars. You're speaking in front of Congress. You've got your donating members to, to the Congress. You're donating to candidates that are running for office. Yes. Wow. That you want to lead your life in a direction that you wanted to lead into. It's unbelievable.

So he, so at this point, so he got locked up. But at least he, like you say, He's occupied with the trial. And now he's going to be moved within the next few weeks. He'll be moved to a prison. He'll go through R&D, where you go through that whole process again. So he's still at, he's got like five, is it five months to sentencing? Oh, yeah, yeah.

You're right. I'm saying once he's sentenced, I'm sorry, I meant once he's sentenced, so not in a few weeks. But a few weeks after being sentenced, he'll be moved to his prison, which will be 90% chances of camp. He's going to go to, not, I can't, I'm sorry, a low, a low. 90% chance it's going to go to a low. But you still go through R&D. It's still got multiple fences, razor wire, motion sensors. You know, it's a prison.

Yeah. And he'll go through R&D. He'll go through the whole process, get photoed. You know, they talk to you like your garbage. He does the same thing. The reason, the reason I bring up the county jail is because the acclamation for him. So, like I tell you, know some people that are in custody with Elizabeth Holmes right she had she had a shock

she went through a shock period did I tell you that they were saying that she's not even brushing her hair right like she's going to breakfast and people are looking at her like what do you do yeah I don't care how I look you know what I'm saying oh I'm sure like you stop wanting to shower you stop like the depression you you don't have control because so much is out of your norm that you're a fish out of water and you don't even really know what to do and your brain is is out of his own because he's been in custody all this time he will still he will do his hair if he's been doing it to get ready for trial he will get up and he'll brush his teeth and do his hair Elizabeth Holmes went through that shot because she turned herself in and then he Yeah, he's already been in custody, right? He's already been in custody. Here's the thing. Have you seen his hair?

I don't think it matters. He looks like John, for some reason, he looks like John Belushi to me and Blues Brothers. He probably kind of does. But he, yes, he's going to be a misfit, but he's going to have enough of it together. His problem is going to lie in the dealing with the guilty people. people. See, county jail and prison, the mentality of the people are very vastly different. County jail, you're dealing with what you're dealing with. And it's not a whole lot. And you're still worried about trial. Whereas in prison, I'm already convicted. And to some people,

I've resigned that this is my home. Right. And then I own and run this place. You know what I'm saying? I've got control over certain aspects of my life when truly I have control over nothing. I'm saying. So he's going to have to deal with the personality clash of it. And if God forbid, you're right, I'm hoping that he's in a dorm where he is dealing with multiple personalities and he's not in solitary confinement or in confinement somewhere where he's by himself, where he's not having to deal with him. Because the, and I don't know if you saw that. Talk to me about, have you seen that at the low? Because at the low are a lot of people who came from society. They don't understand like this is prison and prison mentality like when they get there you know they're like

i'm going to tell the police you know yeah it's he's um i was going to say that you can mouth off to people in the in prison and get hurt yes you know what i'm saying like you can say certain things like i very quickly realized even just joking around with people that one you're not necessarily dealing with the brightest people. Two, that some of them are like, in some ways, they're brutal and in other ways they're super sensitive. Yes. And you're dealing with people that have, you know, multiple personality disorder, you know, schizophrenia. You're dealing with people, a ton of people with bipolar disorder. And, you know, you say just the, the most normal things, you know, you know, you're not, you know, there's no conflict like that. You're not,

trying to be a jerk or anything have a normal conversation in their mind they'll turn it in something so right so and he's a snide little arrogant prick like like who knows what kind of arrogant snotty little things he'll say to somebody that could get him hurt you know supposedly made off mouth off to a couple guys and and got ended up getting the shit slapped out of him yeah at one point isn't he out though is he out no Bernie made died died in prison you know what i thought i just thought did he really yeah like a year or two ago a few years ago yeah a few years ago um what else so anyway i was going to say like i've been locked up with several high profile guys you know that went to the low and at the beginning of their bid

yeah well no no and some of them were at the at the end of their bid right like well you know it's it really depends. It didn't seem like it was at the end of their bid until the first chance, first step, chance went through. And then they ended up getting out years early. Right. So, you know, to like, if you got 20 years and you've done eight years, like, and you've got another, you know, with good time, you've got another eight years or nine years to go. Like, it doesn't feel like I'm at the end of my bid. You know, you're in the middle of it. And other guys got like, they didn't get a lot of time. You know, they got three years or something like that. And they weren't there very long. But. But.

But these guys were all, like, there was a guy named Lance Paulson. Lance Paulson. I know we keep saying, you keep thinking it's, we talked about it. It's not the same guy you know. It just sounds familiar. Yes. What happened with Lance is, you know, a very cursory look at his case is that he basically had like an investment company where people were, you know, they were giving them

money for bonds and he was paying out dividends. and eventually he had a credit line and he was they were siphoning off money and stuff and eventually the credit line gets cut off so they can't make the payments like it ends up it's a semi-ponsie scheme so he ends up going to trial because he felt like a lot of what was going on had been hidden from him he was saying like I didn't realize that this was happening he goes to trial he loses he gets like 20 25 years and he goes to trial and they sent him to a pen nonviolent never in trouble and they sent him to a pen

you know and and it took about a year or so to get him out of the pen to let me explain whoever listening this is a nonviolent criminal who got 25 years he never should have gone to a pen correct he's gone to a medium we really should have gone to a to a lower camp but they have a certain they have certain criteria that say look if you you can only go to a

camp if you have under 10 years left you can only go to a low if you have under 20 years left now right he got 25 years or roughly but he really should have gone to a medium i'm sorry and then you can go you can't go to a camp with less than 20 years so he should so the worst case scenario is he should have gone to a medium for very little time a year or two but they sent him to a pen for some reason. And as a result, and, you know, Zach and I, you know, we talked about this and you were saying that it was retaliation. And I know Lance. The gentleman that I knew and I thought his name was Lance. Okay. Well, he was a, I want to say a stock broker where he invested people's money. But it's, I guess it's the same story, different person. Right. But, but, you know, you were saying, um, retaliation. Uh, uh, And that the guy you would talk to for retaliation. I think the prosecutor did it. Right.

So Lance, you know, of course, the prosecutor is not going to admit that. Like, because they could get him killed. But, you know, these things happen. So, you know, we went, there's no reason to get into that. Like, you know, Lance is the same thing. He says it was retaliation. The Bureau of Prisons, the U.S. Attorney's Office, they're never going to say that. But they could also never explain how he ended up in a pin.

Like, there's only one reason you would put this guy in a pin. Somebody somewhere's upset. Oh. it was miscalculated how can you miscalculate he's a 65 year old man who went to trial who've never been in trouble in his life there's only one reason you put him in a pin he wasn't escape risk you know his his his he had camp custody he had like a like a one or a zero percent as far as being a risk his risk factor whatever you want to call it that factor like I came in with camp points I had like three points you should

be if you camp he came in with like one or zero so same thing should have been at camp um anyway he went to a pin and when he got to the pen he had a guy come up to him a big guy came up to him and said hey man listen uh i'm going to make sure you don't get hurt because these guys are going to try and extort you and hurt you here's what you're going to do you're going to put five hundred a month on my books or send it to my my girl and you have your have your have your family or your people, you know, have your people, send me, you know, send money to my, my, my, my girl on the street. Right. And I'm going to make sure you're okay. And Lance said, I'm not going to do that. And he goes, what? And he said, yeah, you are. Or, or you're going to get hurt. He's like,

well, you know, then that's what's going to happen because I'm not going to be extorted. Dude punched him right then. Bow, right then in the face. Knocked his tooth out. He, Lance was missing a tooth right here. knocked his tooth out like almost you know didn't break his nose or anything I just completely like his eye blood shot he just really smashed him one and he was it was one punch one it was one punch yeah like one punch I don't know if he got punch again but I mean I think one punch knocked out his tooth I don't know if he got punched another time and he he was like oh just the whole side of my face was just smashed and geez yeah and then he so then they put him in the shoe they put him

in the shoe for like three months or something. I think he got out again. Um, somebody else tried to extort him and then, which he said, no. He said, I mean, I'll just keep getting punched and go to the shoe. I mean, I'm, but I'm not going to be extorted. Well, they, he said nothing happened. Now, like, after that, a few months later, they were like, they were going to, they just decided this is the pin. They were like, okay, well, oh, and he didn't say anything when he got smashed. I don't think he said who did it right also probably don't think you knew who did it but some guy just comes up to you randomly you don't really know and they've got cameras they could figure it out but either way he can't got back on they didn't really bother him and then a few months later they he ended up by

that point they said you know what you shouldn't be here and so he got moved to I think at that point he went from the medium or he went straight to the low wow I think he might have gone in the medium for a few months and then they moved him to low And that's where I met him in the low. And at the low, you know, didn't have any problems at the low. Should have been at the low to begin with. Nobody, you know, nobody approached him at the low. And here's the thing, you know, Lance, like a lot of these guys, and this is what I think is going to, and you tell me if I'm wrong, what I think is going to happen.

And what typically happens with these guys is like you'll have someone like Lance. And what they do is they get there. And if they become a little bit savvy and they've got people ready to help them on this. the street and they still have money on the street, then what they'll do is they'll go to some guy and they'll say, look, I'm going to have somebody put $100 a month on your books and you're going to clean my room once a day. So I don't have to do it. Okay. You give somebody else a hundred bucks. Hey, can you do my laundry? Absolutely. I'll keep your, I'll keep your, um, your locker organized for you. I'll, I'll keep any excess stuff you have. It sounds like Reese, but. Right. I'll, I'll,

rent a legal locker for you so you have an extra locker they're going to put you know that you put money on people's books you're allowed you you can pay somebody hey I'll give you an extra 100 bucks or two or three hundred dollars let me use all your phone minutes so now I can use the phone now I'm not limited to 10 minutes a day on the phone I can do 20 30 40 you know you can you can have people you put money on their books and and they go to commentary for you I'll give you put 500 bucks a month on your books and you get you know get me three hundred dollars in commissary whatever like you very with a little bit listen with with less than a thousand dollars you basically can live like a king in federal prison if you get somebody to send you a thousand and a

thousand dollars to lance um paulson or any of these guys is nothing like donovan davis in prison there's a guy named donovan davis i actually wrote a story on him um It's like a $20 million Ponsie scheme And Donovan lived great And lives great in prison I mean he just You know he's he's got

Isn't that one you said ran the low Pretty much runs the low Yeah pretty much Yeah now he's at a camp But he pretty much ran the low Like I mean he And everybody loved him You know

Super jolly funny Nice guy Everybody liked them And he was good Like he's a he's a black He's a he's a Jamaican Right But he's Indian Jamaican.

He's from India. So, you know, in Jamaica, there's a segment of the population in Jamaica that is actually from India. Right. So he talks the whole petois. The whole thing. He'll do that. But he speaks like he can talk like a white guy. He can talk like a black guy.

He can talk like a Jamaican. And so everybody loves him. And he's hilarious. He has money. people can put money on he'll put some money on this person's book this person's he's he gets commissary that people get him comment would get him commissary and it was it was he was he was easy to get along with but he never had any problems right i didn't have any problems you know or i think the only way bankman free goes to prison i was going to say another guy i was locked up with by the

way same type of situation guy named tim meggee i forget what he got like 20 years another guy Martin Bradley got, I want to say Bradley got 25 years. Good Lord. Yeah, for a medical, and the only reason he got so much time was he went to trial. Like they were ready to give him like two or three years. And he went to trial and paid for all of his co-defendants lawyers. And then, you know, this and this guy got so screwed. But the bottom line is he ends up at the low, guy never had any problems.

He good, you know, good guy. high profile case never had any problems and probably i don't know about martin but i'm assuming he probably put money on people's books uh well the because i was locked up with plies's brother who was his manager and it remember do you remember him from coleman and familiar yeah plies his brother they call him mr biggs it was locked up at coleman he was in i remember i was in out Alpha Alpha. What was that alpha? A1.

I was an A1 or something like that. Was it the, the, um, uh, was that FMB or BMF, BMF? No, no, not BMX. BM. BMA. No, this was plies. The rapper, plies. Okay.

He was, in fact, he was very popular at the time. Huh? It sounds so, plies sounds familiar. That's all. Yes. His brother was locked up with us at Coleman. Okay. He was in, he was an A, I think I was an A2 or something.

two or something. He was in the unit with me. At the medium, yeah. He never, never came out of the room. Oh, yeah. People made all of his, his food for him. They brought him food. They cooked it. He never went to commissary. People went to commissary for him. He never went to

commissary. The one time, I was sitting in the day room watching the news with him. He had that $50 radio. He gave me a $50 radio. He had the radio. He plugged it in. Because, you know, compared to the big box Sony, you know, that little $50

Sanjin, it's just not as loud. So he puts it in, and he's like, I don't like this radio. He goes, it's not as loud as the other one. I go, yeah, yeah, I had one of those. Like, that's not as loud. He goes, hey, you want it? He gave it to me, went up to the room and gave me the box.

Like, I just got it today. I don't even want it. Yeah, and pretty, like, that just doesn't happen. Yeah. It does with people of that type of wealth. Right. That's what I'm saying. The average inmate is not. And that's what I'm trying to say is that Bankman Free is not the average inmate. No, he's not going to be the average. If he were, go ahead. Well, do you, because he hasn't been wealthy all of his life. He was not wealthy a, or was his parents, well, he was not,

super rich all of his life. He was upper middle class. Now, he hasn't been fabulously wealthy, but he's always been upper middle class. And I still don't know if it, well, we'll see. We'll see. Because like wealthy for more than 10 or 12 years, you have a different perception of money. You have a different relationship with money than those that aren't wealthy that long. So like Ply's brother had been wealthy a long time. And so that type of money, like what he didn't want, he knew exactly what he wanted to do and how. And he kept that in line at all time. He kept that in line at all time. So I think freed like it's hard to engage his personality especially through his interviews because he came across as kind of like aloof. You know what I'm saying? Like and so like that's not going to bode him well in prison. So it just depends on this person. Like, um, Elizabeth Smart is, gosh, Elizabeth Smart. I'm losing my mind. Please edit. Elizabeth Holmes. Right. It's not that smart. Elizabeth Holmes, and this is what I'm basing it on because the people I talk to about her is like she doesn't, she didn't want to talk to anybody when she first got there. Like she had one or two people who slept in her quarters that she talked to, but outside of that, like if you went up to her and like people would tell me somebody would walk up to and just start talking and she'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just walk off. Like, I don't know who you are, you know what I'm saying? I think you probably went through kind of the same thing when you got there for those that knew who you were as Matt Cox.

People walk up, oh, blah, nah, you're probably like, yeah, see you later. Oh, yeah, well, I didn't want to talk to anybody. I was, like, I felt like, definitely felt like, listen, I'm not here to make friends. Like, I, I, I'm here, I need to get out, you know, like I spent all my time, what, you know, reading and going to. At the beginning, this is at the beginning. Yeah, I was going to say the very, we're talking about the first few months until I actually started teaching the real estate class and I met you and we started doing the GED. Like then I kind of really opened up. Right.

And so here's here's what I'm, I think what I wanted to address was the idea that he would be extorted. So I, and I knew guys that had been extorted were extorted. Right. At the low. You know, at the medium at the low. You're talking about you, which is hard to believe. Yeah. The, but I, I knew guys that had been, you know, but they didn't put up any fight at all.

Right. Like, the idea that you would be at a low and get extorted, you would basically, it would, it would have to be a situation where, because if you pushed back at all, honestly, I just don't see anybody being extorted. order there. But I also think that if you're, if you're so, and the guys that I knew were older guys, like let's say you're in your late 50s, early 60s, and you're frail and you're scared. They came in, they had three years and they're terrified. So they come in, somebody approaches them and, and they just decide, okay, well, I'll give you $50. You know, oh, you want $50. Oh, okay, I'll give you $50. But what they do a lot of times is they'll come and they'll say, hey, I'll do this for you. and they'll do something and then you put this much money on my books and nobody will bother you

and so it's not necessarily a strong armed and you kind of realize what's happening but it doesn't feel like you're being extorted so much and then they'll say yeah yeah I'll put $300 a month on your books and you can buy my commissary but what they're really you're only getting you maybe $100 or $200 of commissary and a lot of times they're shorting you and you know know so really they're in a way they're extorting you and you're concerned about it but you don't want to say anything like i could see that happening the but the only way i think that he would be extorted is somebody comes up to him and says hey bro like you know you could end up getting hurt here but if you give me a hundred bucks a month i'll make sure nothing happens and he just

immediately does it do you see what do you think i i i have a i have a hard time with that I don't like hearing he's too I would think he's too famous like you think any of those famous people got extorted well I mean they tried with Lance did they yeah I told me what he was at a pin I don't know that's what I'm saying if at a low you're right I don't think at a low there's as much chance because the fact is is that all he's really got to do is say this guy came up to me He said this, he said that. And they'll go grab that dude, put him in the shoe for 90 days and ship him. Yes.

Coleman Lowe did that. Coleman Lowe did that because people, when I was in the shoe, people told me that when you get over there, they ask you if you are able to go along with the program they got going over there. It's like, hey, we protect a lot of these people. You know what I'm saying? We know what these people are about and we protect them, which are the wealthy and the choice crimes. So Coleman would definitely protect him. So if he'd said anything, they would definitely have been gone. Yeah. But like, I just, like, if you went there and you weren't

infamous, then I think there's a chance that you might get approached, like you said. But if you're famous, I just think, like initially they look out for you. They just, I think initially they cuddle you and coddle and anything going on. You're okay. Cuddle. Cuddle. Cuddle on the issue. They coddle you, what you meant. But, yeah, I think that they make sure you're okay. Like, they'll call you in and say, do you have any concerns? Because they understand that you offer a PR against them immediately. Like, as soon as you call your lawyer, you know, they're going to have some issues.

So they, and they don't want shit in the paper that you've been extorted. You know what I'm saying? So they, I told you that about that. And I hate to keep going back to her, but I told you about that, like, one of the pictures they have of her, everybody was telling me it features the Timex watch that they watched that she bought at commissary like it had to be a guard because they'll go like man that picture that watch that she has on she bought that two days ago how the hell did the news get that that's not a picture from a few weeks ago that's a recent recent picture and the guards i mean of course the

guards i'll give you five hundred dollars per picture of her done you know what i'm saying so all that kind of all those kind of things are going to go on for him so obviously if i if if i was there and i tried to extort him you know at some private meeting that i would never be you know aware of he would say which one and they'd run the camera that one oh yeah he's out of here and i disappear what happened uh yeah oh god he got a bunch of commissary one one week and he was gone to that got what he wanted got the hell about it here you know what I'm saying so I don't I don't foresee it but I'm not saying it's not possible he doesn't need to be on the lookout for it you know I

think I think his is a major issue is as far as concerned is acclimating himself and you know who he associates with in there you know what I'm saying not just for because he's facing other charges other places You know, but somebody might be a rule 35 off of him, you know, who knows what he knows, you know, what he's smuggled out, you know what I'm saying. Where's all that money at? Yeah, yeah, you never know. There are those guys out there that are those people that want to know those those bad. He left some pending crimes out there.

So he may have a matter of who he associates with, you know, which would probably be some of what should probably be the frauders, you know. We're probably hanging out with the frocksters. I was going to say that you always have that problem because he hasn't admitted to everything he's done. So you don't know what else is out there. Yep. What didn't they charge him with? Exactly. So it's a matter of who he associates with and who he trusts, you know.

So what, you know, the other thing is like he's also going to be subject to the visitation program. So his ability to get these constant visits. that you can get in the U.S. Marshall's holdover. He's not getting them. Now you're limited. Like your parents can come see you. Like, just like once every two weeks, they can come see you. It's, you're not going to be getting three visits a week.

But his days, his days will be a little more busier. Yeah, yeah. He'll get a job. He'll be working in education. Um, he'll, he'll, he'll, listen, in six months to a year, he'll surround himself by a bunch of kind of like-minded people that are kind of geeky. unfortunately it that's probably sos right maybe fraudsters or sos but he's he looks like an s o guy to me um but probably probably yeah so you're right it'll probably be a bunch of fraudsters

they'll hang out they're all kind of a little bit you know touched and uh i don't mean physically i mean like mentally they're all off a little bit and so maybe he they click up and they'll play dungeons and dragons and uh you know risk and and they'll play vip board game they had that they had that game going on at the medium did they have that going on at the low dungeon and dragon yeah it wasn't dungeon they have another game but it's the same game it's it's dungeons and dragons they call it something else right it's dungeons and dragons and yeah and listen they were serious yes they were that's a serious game and they would make their own special like you know uh 18 18 sided dice and here's a you know you got your six sided dice and you're a you got your six sided dice and your And you're 20-sided die. Like, they had these special dice. It was, it was, it was insane. They were insanely serious about it.

Yeah, he'll, he'll, once his expectations of life drop dramatically and he kind of, he'll re, he'll acclimate to the environment. He'll get him, he'll surround himself by a, a decent group of guys that he's, you know, like-minded individuals. He'll, he'll read, start reading a series. And for, for two or three years, he'll read, seriously and once it sinks in hey i'm going to do some fucking some time here he won't it won't be detrimental to to him right his growth right maybe he's not going to be in a place where he's got

to join a gang and do this like they're going to leave him alone for the most part at some point they'll point him out they're like who the heck is that you know his story is is for the elite and for the i'll call it the informed his story is really for people who are informed. A lot of those guys that are in the drug trade or even though they used cryptocurrency will not even know who he

was. So, I mean, he'll disappear into the abyss, but God bless him. We need to talk once he's sent it so we could offer him some suggest, well, we can't. He's not out so he can contact us on what they expect when he

gets there and where he should ask to go, you know what I'm saying? So. It's crazy. Oh, he's going to get fan mail and all kinds of ridiculous. Oh, us. We'll get one for me, of course, you know. We're big fans. Yeah, he's, we'll see.

So do you think his sentencing will get moved back, or you think it'll be in March? His trial happened fast. You know, I can look it up online and keep an eye on it and some pre-trial motions and file them. You know, I'm going to read about, not pre-trial, Not pre-trial, come on. Some pre-sentencing motions, you know, to kind of break down, like, why he should get a, you know, a favorable outcome or the low end of the guideline and see how they kind of pump up his life. You know, we can meet after his sentencing and go over it and what he's going to have to, how much he's going to do. I mean, how long is it going to take for that to sink in, you know what I said?

I forgot about Ardap. He's probably, he can still take Ardap, but there's more than Ardap now. There's all kind of programs that are offering people time off. Yep, no, but I'm saying with programming, with good time, so you're looking at three years off. Let's say he gets exactly 20. Three years off, good time. Another four years off.

So now you're 17. Now you're down to 13 plus RDAP. You're down to 12 years. And that sounds horrible. You know, I did 13. You did 13? Yeah, I did just shy of 13. Like 12. I did 14. Wait, where's the halfway house fit into that? You weren't out a year before we caught hooked up. You were only out about yeah. You're only out of the halfway house about six months. All I think was almost a year. And you weren't it. You were still in the halfway house. You were just on an ankle monitor. Oh, that's right. So yeah, I was just shy of 13. It was like it was like I just say 13. I just say 13.

because I was saying I was rounding down and everybody people were like you should be rounding up bro you know think about it you like it was like 12 and it's like 12 years and like you know eight or not or like nine months I'm like so when is the supervised release over this year next year July of this coming year so I've got another eight or nine months you can well never mind I was going to suggest asking to get off of it now I've already asked remember that I said I do remember that yeah I do remember that yeah so so what i mean i 12 years sounds like a long time and like you said there may be some other programs so let's say another year let's say he does 11 let's say it gets a year of good time i mean a year halfway house 10 10 or 11 years if ever all the planets align he gets 20 years and all the planets align you're saying he's going to get less than 20 i'm saying i think he gets roughly 20 so at that point what do you at that point he does let's say 10 or 11 years, I think that, honestly, for his crime, I think that's reasonable. Like, that's more than reasonable, especially, and I'm not going to have you lost money.

Some of these people, people lost millions. Oh, yes. Yes. He has a, so what's not really computing in my mind is the victims, you know, of his crimes. And I probably should put that in the forefront. So that will drive a lot. And that's probably what makes you closer to being right than me. being right. I'm sitting there thinking he just had a fictitious exchange and maybe some banks are out.

But there's a lot of people who trusted and invested in him that are out there money. And if they parade any of those through his sentencing hearing, then yeah, that number ticks up like with each testimony that does. Yeah. You know, it starts ticking up. So he might be looking at 20. So hopefully he gets out in about 11. And just despite, I was going to say, despite what your pre-trial, I'm sorry, your PSR, your pre-sentence report says, if they parade a bunch of victims in front of the judge, the judge is going to be like, hmm, even though it might say, you know, 240 months, the judge, every victim that gets up there and starts crying, the judge is going to be like, yeah, hmm, it's getting higher and higher, just like you said. Yes. And they're probably coming. And they're probably coming. I mean, if the prosecutor is smart, he's going to, he's going to get, he's not going to get an institutional investor that lost, that lost a hundred million. He's going to get some, some guy who's 65 years old who says, I, I invested a hundred thousand, a hundred thousand dollars of my life savings for my retirement. I invested because this guy was going on the news and he had all these podcasts and things saying to invest. And everybody was screaming how wonderful he was. So I trusted him and I lost $100,000.

Your Honor, I can't retire now. I have to have to have to move him with my daughter. Excuse me. Did you say you were a disabled veteran also? Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine by that point like, yeah, he's done. The judge is going to be like, I also start in Iraq.

What unit were you in? Just put out of a gun and shoot you at that point. You're out of it. so yeah he could go bad it's it's probably i i still think and i think 20 because they're going to take his his youth into consideration yeah he's young now you got me yawning he's about 30 right 31 yeah probably think he's older than that at this point but you know he was supposed to supposed to be a boy genius not that he isn't a genius he's just also a prick um so They end in hand, they go end and end.

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