Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Will SBF Survive Prison? | What 25 Years actually Looks Like....

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Will SBF Survive Prison? | What 25 Years actually Looks Like.... ...

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Starting point is 00:00:47 It was just sentenced and he got 25 years. They're saying he's a 32-year-old man. He's going to leave a prison at 57. That's not the way the system works at all. What do you think his frame of mind was? And I went into sentencing. And I got 26 years and four months. and it was so overwhelmingly devastating.
Starting point is 00:01:04 So we've had multiple discussions about Sam Bankman-Fried. I always kind of said, like, is it going to be around 20 to 30 years or 25 years, roughly that amount. And then I know you and I had talked about it before. I talked to a lawyer and stuff. I know you and I had talked. And I was saying, too, this is what funny.
Starting point is 00:01:22 I was saying the whole time that his co-definance were probably going to get like five years. but you you were saying you actually said you kind of looked at the guidelines and did a whole thing and you were saying he's he's going to get 140 years or something or that's what it says on the guidelines but then you were you were like but he'll probably get whatever 20 25 years and then he was just sentenced and he got 25 years so I had a bunch of people in the comment section saying like bro you were right you were right because I think it was was it Zach I don't forget It was Zach. I talked to somebody else and they were saying he was going to get like 100 years or
Starting point is 00:01:59 was it 10 years. It was way off. I was like, no way. He was like, oh, yeah, absolutely. I was like, now that these guys, he'll get, he'll get 20, 25 years, 30 years maybe in that. So what should he have get? What did his PSI say? Because you've read some stuff on it, right? The pre-sensitive report suggested 110 years. Okay. The government had taken the position of 40 to 50 years. And obviously the defense low ball that came in saying, hey, there's very low actual loss. Now that they've recovered all the money to pay back all the investors, they're saying five and a half to six years. And so yesterday was his sentencing. And the judge gave him a fairly good break. Right. You know, 25 is a little bit more than I expected. I actually expected 20 years.
Starting point is 00:02:44 Only because, well, you know, obviously the guy's got no prior record. There's no violence in his case, the losses, although egregious, were ameliorated by the fact that they recovered bulk of the money. And, like, the one finding that the court actually made was that, you know, he had gambled with people's lives and money and that he was not remorseful for committing crimes, but regretful that, quote, he had made a very bad bet about the likelihood of getting caught. Right. And so on the basis of that premise, the court said, look, this guy poses a significant risk because he's able to rationalize that he didn't do nothing wrong. wrong and upon getting released is a very good chance that he's going to be able to induce other
Starting point is 00:03:25 people to put up a significant amount of capital and he may end up doing it again start the whole process again and so for the purposes of making the impact given you know it was a significant number 25 years is not a slap on the wrist at all right now of course it's not as impactful as the media are characterizing it because they're saying he's a 32 year old man he's going to leave a prison at 57. That's not the way the system works at all. Right. And so he's got a 25-year sentence. He'll do 22 on 25. Prior to the first step back, you're going to get one year of halfway house with the 25-year sentence, so he'll be doing 21. However, now, because of the new credit regime that's in place, every two years of sentence of prison time, it's a year knocked off your sentence. So at 14 years,
Starting point is 00:04:13 he will have earned seven years off, one year off his sentence, six years extended home confinement or halfway house placement. Well, you can get reductions up to one-third of your sentence. So if he's got to serve 22 years, at the 14-year mark, he's transferring to home confinement. So he's going to be home in his mid-40s, which is a dramatically different picture than how it's been characterized. That's just, just, that's going to be just enough time for him to start another, uh, another, uh, Another 4-X scam, no.
Starting point is 00:04:44 No, the thing is, you know, a guy like that. No, a crypto scam, sorry, another crypto scam. You know, and now, of course, the circumstances could always change. Like, an inmate of that high profile, very unlikely to prevail in court. Right. And there's certainly not going to be any retroactive guideline amendment changes that could potentially help him because they're going to hit him for the leader organizer. Obviously, the loss amount is just off the charts.
Starting point is 00:05:10 And so he's going to have to just. keep his nose clean, due to 14 years, go to home confinement. It's still going to be a young enough man where he's going to have, you know, enough lifetime where he can actually... It's not the end of the world. It's not the end of the... He's not in a hopper situation where he's going to be getting out of 76. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:27 If, assuming he wins, getting out, you know, as a broke down an older individual. Right. Whereas Bankman Freed is a... He's got plenty of life ahead of him. Right. I'm sure he doesn't feel that way right now. No, but, you know, the thing is, once he... gets to the prison, you know, you've made, told stories about it before. You're easy, you fall
Starting point is 00:05:49 into a little bit of a program. Yeah. And, you know, the thing about the BOP that I'm sure they would not acknowledge is that they go out of their way to make sure that individuals like that don't have a hard time. You know, I was the captain's orderly at the medium at Lompoc when another Silicon Valley guy showed up worth tens of millions of dollars, you know, Steve jobs his neighbor and a double doctor from Caltech, legendary in the manufacturing computer chip space. And so a couple of days before he gets arrived, I get called up to the captain's office, says there, Rossini, go talk to the operations lieutenant. So I go talk to the ops lieutenant, he takes me out in the hallway. He doesn't even want the other staff to hear it. Right. He's like, look,
Starting point is 00:06:33 we got a guy coming off the bus in a couple of days. I want you to go talk to all the reps, let them know that if anybody in their car fucks with this man, I will smash. the entire car. I'll send every one of them to the East Coast. And so I literally spent that day and the following day going around to each of the reps explaining, hey, look, that's what the captain said. Right. Is what the lieutenant said. And so when I was like, man, who is this guy? You know, I mean, obviously very well connected politically. The guy had like a U.S. Senator's phone number on his approved phone list. Right. So if you can pick up a phone and call to Senator.
Starting point is 00:07:10 Last thing we want is him getting smashed and it's showing up as an article. Yes. And so I'm sure that at whatever prison, SBF is going to be showing up at a few days beforehand, their equivalent of me is going to be getting calls into you off and say, hey, look, go straighten everything out. Make sure you're going to get them. My task was getting them good sell, get them good sell me, get them situated, find out what kind of job he wants, go get him that job, take him.
Starting point is 00:07:39 him around for the first few days, make sure everybody sees that, hey, this is the guy. Right. And Mr. Mosen had no problems whatsoever. And so that's what SBF is going to be getting at. And just for the first few years, because after a couple of years, he's going to get transferred down to a low anyway. Right. So, but initially he's getting 25 years.
Starting point is 00:07:58 Yes. So initially he's got to do, what, would you say, 21? You do 22 on 25. 22 on 25. So he's, because I got 26, I went to a medium. Yeah, he's going to a medium. Okay, because you have a management variable on you as a result. Because after 20 years, it doesn't matter what your security level is, you have to be below 20 years to go to a low.
Starting point is 00:08:22 Yes. Or the Bureau can waive the public safety factor, which is what they oftentimes do with, like, law enforcement. So if a crooked cop gets a 30-year sentence, he ends up at the low anyway. Right. You get, there's a better chance he can get hurt. Yeah, they waived the public safety factor. You know, they may actually end up doing it with bankman-free simply because. He is such a high profile case.
Starting point is 00:08:41 Right. But otherwise, whatever institution he ends up at, they're going to be taking steps to make sure that this does not happen with this individual because the level of scrutiny is just outrageous. Yeah, I was going to say, he didn't, by not admitting he'd done anything wrong, by going on his little tour, his media blitz before trial, like he didn't, all the things that he thought he was going to be able to. to spin in his favor, didn't do him any favors at all when it came down to sentencing. Because the one thing they can't stand is for you to not show remorse, not show that, not to take responsibility, like they can't stand that. Well, the guidelines contemplate that action. And so had he done so, he'd have gotten a little lesser sentence.
Starting point is 00:09:34 Right. But he's taking a position that, first of all, he's not guilty. Right. And he wants to preserve his claims challenging a conviction. He's not one of these guys who's saying, I'm guilty, but my sentence was out of line. Right. He's saying the conduct itself wasn't criminal. Right.
Starting point is 00:09:52 And so he's put in an untenable position where he can't come in and concede guilt or remorse at sentencing. And so his expressions at sentencing are inconsistent with somebody who's saying, hey, I'm sorry. Like he's saying, I made mistakes with respect to how I chose the duty investments, but there was no criminal intent and unfortunately for him one the case was very strong two you know he spent a lot of money
Starting point is 00:10:16 on attorneys but you know the defense wasn't very well placed together you know there's ways to build a defense for a guy like that it's principally called a mosaic defense and essentially they were taking the defense that you know mob lawyers take poking holes at the credibility of the witnesses
Starting point is 00:10:36 well these are witnesses with no prior criminal activity his ex-girlfriend his other business partners like these aren't someone who's got a heavy incentive to lie in order to curry favor because of exposure
Starting point is 00:10:50 over his criminal history and so a woman like that she's coming in saying look I did this this this well she doesn't have any operational authority like why does she do this or why did the computer programmer create this back door so the Alameda can go into red
Starting point is 00:11:05 and not have a show right i mean he didn't take it upon himself to do that someone directed him to do it right well and he's the one who's getting on the stand saying but they of course this is the guy who directed yeah when you got you got one person that's something but you got four or five multiple you got multiple people and you've got documents and you've got yeah it's it's just a it's just a it's just a that's an unbeatable you know case yeah you know it would be interesting to know rather not the government and him explored any settlement i just don't think that their government was even offering him plea deal at this point. Yeah, I think, I think I spoke with, um, what was her name, uh, Fong?
Starting point is 00:11:43 Do you know him? Tiffany Fong? Tiffany Fong, you, do you remember, did you ever see that one? I think she mentioned that, um, either she said that they were offering him and he wouldn't even, he wouldn't accept it or accept whatever the plea was, or he was saying he wouldn't take a plea no matter what that. So I forget what it was, but I want to say that they were willing to talk about it, he was unwilling to even discuss having it, taking a place. I'm sure they were coming in with a, you know, a 30-year sentence. Yeah, which I'm sure just, no, absolutely not. I'm not going to, you know.
Starting point is 00:12:14 But anyway, so somebody asked me, because I have, you know, guys that have my cell number and stuff. And, you know, I got bombarded yesterday with all of the, uh, SBF just got 25 years. FBI, guys are shooting me texts, everything, you know, or links and everything to the articles. And one guy, and I said, hey, and I was telling, listen, man, I'm doing a video on it tomorrow. So one of the guys said you, one of the things you have to discuss is what do you think his frame of mind was when he walked in to be sentenced, knowing his lawyers are asking for five years. Like, what do you think his frame of mind was? Like, what, I thought that was a good question. Sorry.
Starting point is 00:12:59 So I just wanted to remember it because when I went into sentencing and, you know, and I mean, I was, you know, blatantly guilty and willing to admit I'm guilty. So which didn't help me. But when I walked in, I really felt like my lawyer had me convinced that some of my enhancement, she was going to argue with the judge. She was going to get him to throw out some of my enhancements. And I was going to end up with about 12 to 12 to 13 years. She was like, look, I'm going to win this one, this one, this one. There's like three or four of them. And, you know, and I read them and talking with her, I agreed these.
Starting point is 00:13:38 I didn't feel these applied. And I really felt like I was not going to get 26 and a half years. I was going to get 12 years, 12 to 13 years. And, you know, I didn't. I lost, she lost every one of them. And I got 26 years and four months. And it was so overwhelmingly devastating because in my mind, I didn't make, I did not give myself, you know, time or allow myself to even contemplate getting 26 years. So when I got it, I just, it was surreal.
Starting point is 00:14:19 Like, I mean, all I could think of was this, this can't be happening. I didn't do anything to get 26. No way did I deserve 26 years. And I was willing to say, hey, absolutely, I broke the law over and over and over again. Like, I've been doing this for almost a decade. So I was more than willing to say, this guy is saying, I didn't do anything wrong. So what do you, I mean? Well, that's a phenomenon that's common amongst fraud defendants.
Starting point is 00:14:47 Right. Because they have no experience with the criminal justice system. and there's this notion that I mean look there's no pro-criminal judges and even the judges that are fair will not hesitate to slam you and I don't think that a lot of the people who have no experience with the system
Starting point is 00:15:10 understand that and so for someone like him he's got very high-priced attorneys they probably persuaded him in your circumstance same thing you're going to get six years even if he says you know what let's double it 12 yeah he wasn't prepared present prepared for 25 yeah he's not he wasn't prepared for 25 particularly also because he's got asperger's and so it's easier for a guy like that to get fixated on one or two aspects and it causes them to you know he's focusing on the trees and he misses the entire forest right and i'm sure he didn't see that forest coming particularly
Starting point is 00:15:44 because he's in segregated housing he has a police officer for a cellmate And so it's not like he's mingling with other inmates who's saying in your story where you're hearing, yeah, I went in thinking I'm going to get five and you got 20. Yeah. And so that at least prepares you psychologically for something going devastatingly wrong. I think he was in a little bit of a bubble. And he's probably in the same circumstances as you were. So what, so, okay, I did a video where I talk about what I was like, he's going to go to prison. I wasn't thinking about, you know, the credits, the First Step Act credits or anything like that.
Starting point is 00:16:25 And I was like, hey, you know, whatever he gets, he's going to get to prison. It's going to take him. Well, this was also, I don't think he'd been arrested when I did this video. So he's been incarcerated. You know, now he's been, at that point, I didn't think he had been in car. He wasn't incarcerated yet. So I remember thinking it's going to take like six months for his kind of expectations of life to kind of drop. You know, you get there when you first get arrested.
Starting point is 00:16:48 You can't reach for your, listen, for days, for days I reached for my cell phone. For I would roll over or panic. I have that, you have that momentary panic like, where's my fault? Like what? And I would be like, oh my God. Constantly pat my, like, where's my, pat my pants for, you know, this was back when we had. Pocket pockets. I go, where's my, where's my.
Starting point is 00:17:10 And I, oh my God, there's no cell phone. I mean, it was a constant thing that it took days before I started, it really even sunk in that listen there is no there is no cell phone there is no computer because you know initially you're i was in the u.s marshals lockup so there's no there's no core links there's no computers you can get to to email anybody um so it took it took weeks and weeks before i could even fathom where i was and and stopped it talked months before i stopped waking up in the morning because you have that initial where you wake up in the morning and you're like oh my god i'm still in prison like you keep thinking for there's a split second when you think it maybe it's a dream
Starting point is 00:17:48 dream and you wake up, you're still dreaming about the street. It takes a few years to stop dreaming about the street. Then after about three or four years, and my cousin told me this. When I first got locked up, like my cousin was at the medium. And I was telling him, man, I had the weirdest dream last night. And I was telling about what was going on in the dream. And he goes, you're still dreaming about the street? I was like, yeah. He goes, yeah. He said, you've been locked up, what, a couple years? And I was like, yeah. And he said, yeah, he goes, it'd take another year or so. He said, you'll stop dreaming. He said, you'll probably stop dreaming about the street in a few more years. And I never even occurred to me that would happen. And so what happened was after about three years or
Starting point is 00:18:26 so, I started having dreams where I was still on the street, but most of the people in the dream were people from prison. And then I got to the point where I was just kind of, it slowly meshed into me dreaming about prison. And some of the people were people from the street and in prison. And then it got to the point where I only dreamed about being in prison. After about five years, I only dreamed about being in prison and people that were in prison. I stopped dreaming about anybody else. And honestly, I can barely ever remember my dreams. But there's so much of a shift when you get out of prison as far as like the amount of input that's coming in. Like it's so much simple over life when you're locked up. So you have so many, you know, there's just a
Starting point is 00:19:15 lot less going on. So I was going to say for him, he's been about a year. Once he gets to prison, prison will be better than where he is. Much better. He'll get into a routine. And I would say, look, he'll get there in six months. He'll be teaching GED. He'll be teaching a cryptocurrency class, a trading course on how to trade crypto, which he clearly doesn't know how to do. Yeah, he'll talk about setting up corporations. He'll, he will turn up, be kind of the cool geeky guy yeah uh in prison no problems in prison yeah and then he'll get tons of visits because well don't forget he's going to spend maybe a couple years at the medium assuming he doesn't get a waiver now then he'll probably end up at terminal island in terminal island's a
Starting point is 00:20:02 super sweet spot it's low right onto water and it's the kind of place where a guy like that can easily knock out a decade and time goes by quickly right there's no reason why he's not going to go to security. And so, you know, he'll end up, I don't know if they can let him teach a crypto class only because it would really reflect poorly on the bureau. Right. They let me teach a real estate class. Yeah, but you weren't his level of. I was at his level of. You know what I mean? They'll have him, you know, being a clerk in education department. Yeah. So listen, I don't know if I've ever told you this. When I first got locked up and I went to the medium, like, one of the first things when I talked to my counselor, I was like, and she was like, God, you shouldn't even be here.
Starting point is 00:20:45 She's like, you've got camp points, you know, or what do they call it? Minimal security. Yeah, or, yeah, like. Out custody. Outcusty. She's, you got out custody points. She's like, you should be at a camp. And I was like, well, when can I go to a camp?
Starting point is 00:20:59 And she's like, eh, you know, she told, explained, you know, 10 years. And she was like, 10 years. She was, to be honest with you, you can put in a special request and try and get there like 12 years left. She said, which I would do for you. She's, but I won't be your counselor by the time you get there. Case manager. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Starting point is 00:21:14 I won't be your case. manager by the time you get there um she said so yeah whatever she said 10 or 12 years she said you'll go to a camp and so in my mind immediately i thought and you can mind so i'm already looking at 22 to 23 years right so i got 22 years left so i thought okay so if i can go at 10 then i was like 10 to 12 so i'm like i basically have at worst case 12 years 12 years i'll go to a camp i'll escape yeah like my you know what saying in my mind, I was still thinking you're not doing all this time. And it's, even though as silly as it is, it's hope. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:21:50 And I was meeting guys in the medium who had been to a camp and they had left. Like I knew a guy that, and I know you know a ton of these guys, right? They went to a camp. They stayed there for three months or six months, convince somebody to pick them up at the gate or pick them up outside the area, you know, in a certain area. You know, and they would go there, pick him up. I knew this one guy that got, he was there maybe six months, got, picked up by somebody, ex-wife something, they caught him like three months later, seven states
Starting point is 00:22:22 away, grabbed him, transported him back, didn't charge him with escape because there was no fence. Instead, he got, they took like 50 days of good time away from him. And they put him, sent him to a medium, which were I met him. And then I knew another guy who had, who had stayed in the camp for like, this is funny. He stayed there for almost a year because he was taking a course on graphic design and he wanted to finish the course. So he finished the course. Then he escaped. He was gone for like 18 months and where they caught him. They caught him like in, I want to say in Italy or Spain or something. So they caught him, transferred him back, sent him to a medium. and he got like 35 days of good time taken away.
Starting point is 00:23:16 They didn't charge him. And then he said, about four months later, they caught me stealing bread. He had like four pieces of bread. He was stealing, you know, smuggling out of that chow hall. He said they took away 54 days or 50 days. He said they took away 15 more days for stealing four pieces of bread than the escape, catching me in another country. So I felt like, man, I mean,
Starting point is 00:23:39 And so 10 years, I'll do 10 years, you know, and I'd already done like a year. So whatever, it's like, you know, whatever. But who knows when I was going to get there? So 10 to 12 years. I'm going to do 10, 11, 12 years are the most. And I'll escape. And that helped me kind of get through it. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:23:54 Like I wonder what his, you know, then you get to a point, you realize, listen, the BOP has it. They know what they're doing. Because after doing, I realized by the time I got to a point where it's like I'm, I could, I'll be at a camp in five years. or six years or eight years or whatever it is. And I remember thinking I was at that point where it's like, would you escape? Well, before it was 100%. Absolutely, I'm going to escape.
Starting point is 00:24:21 And then I was like, no, I mean, why would I escape? Like, I don't want to have to be chased my whole life. And there would be a big deal. Like, they know not to when they can send you to a camp and you'll do the time. You'll stay there. He won't go anywhere. He's been locked up too long. He won't leave.
Starting point is 00:24:37 He's conditioned to be here. He'll do. So we can send him at about eight years. I remember my, the counselor, well, the case manager, Miss Jenkins, you remember she? So when I talked to her, when I got to the low, she told me, I said, when can I go to a camp? She said, I'll probably send you to a camp. She said, if I'm still here, she said, probably about six years. Six years. And I go, I was told that, you know, 12 years you can put in a thing. She went, she said, even then I wouldn't do it. She said, 10 years. She said, but not you. She was, you. She said, you got rabbit in your blood she goes they caught you on the run she goes you'll run she said yeah i'd send you about six years and i thought god like she like who told you like but so i'm wondering what's going through his head like what is he can't go anywhere he can't be thinking he can go anywhere like he's not thinking escape he's still thinking he's willing in his appeal i just can't imagine you would be that like he has to know how bad the the the court no no it's not until he's been in the system and seen and he's seen hundreds of guys get relief
Starting point is 00:25:45 under circumstances a lot more egregious or failure to get relief and just get shafted and now he'll that's why he'll be like wow i really made a mistake right although ultimately he got a big break because he had probably he ended up with a sentence less than what i'm sure the government was offering yeah yeah he could have done i i only know one or two guys that ever got less than what the flea deal was like went to trial and got less. I only know a few, one of them, I think Jacob Diaz was offered like 15 years and he ended up losing at trial and got 10. So he was like, in the end, I got less than they were even offering. And then I knew another guy who went to trial and ended up getting sentenced to like, they were offering him like six or seven years and he ended up getting
Starting point is 00:26:34 like four after losing at trial. So usually, they offer you five, you go to trial, you get 15 or 20. It's a very unusual circumstance. Yeah, that's so that's a lot, and hearing a lot of cases too. He's already come out ahead. Yeah, but he doesn't think so. He doesn't think so at this point. And then once he gets to the low security institution,
Starting point is 00:26:55 then at that point he'll have to bring seven or eight years before he gets to a minimum security. And once he's out custody, at that point, like I said, there's a very good chance he'll be able to get some kind of a home confinement placement. simply because his crime is not consistent with a custodial sentence. Right. And so as long as his family still has the money to get him to the attorneys, he'll be able to push that line. But, I mean, he still has to be, you know, he's at least 14 years before he can start thinking along those lines.
Starting point is 00:27:28 How long would you think he will fight in court before he's exhausted his appeals and he no longer has anything in court? Do you think he'll get to that point? Well, certainly. Let's say it takes... Well, Donovan's still fighting. Yes, but that's because Donovan had Amadeo. Right. It says it like...
Starting point is 00:27:49 The Amadeo will fight your sentence to the last day of your bid. Right. So... I mean... A question from the audience. Okay. People say, do you think Armadio would be able to help SBF if they were... If he was still won't go.
Starting point is 00:28:05 To the extent... If anybody comes... could, it would be Frank. Look, there was a, what was the guy, what was the guy's name? He was in the unit, he was a Commodore. Don't feed Frank's ego. It's bad enough.
Starting point is 00:28:16 No, no, no, like this is, okay, what was it? Martin Bradley. Oh, yeah, I've talked to Bradley. Okay, and so. I tried to get him on the program. Oh, did you? You wouldn't do it. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:28:25 And so Bradley, you know, we were in the same unit, and we would have these debates because, like, the government was offering him essentially a time served sentence. Yeah. And at this point, he's like 10 years into a sentence. and he got, like, you're so agitated. He's, like, consumed with anger.
Starting point is 00:28:40 Yeah. Like, he missed his daughter's wedding. He missed, you know, these life events. And I said, look, you don't understand. Even if you win tomorrow, you didn't win. All you're doing is getting off from underneath the rubble. Yeah. And it takes a shifting of people's mentality.
Starting point is 00:28:56 Like, when guys come to me, hey, can you help me with my case? Well, if you're trying to go from 25 to time served, I'm not the guy. If you want to go from 25 to 15, now we can talk. Right. and someone like SBF he would have to appreciate the fact that no you're not going to be able to get out from underneath the conviction now someone like Frank may be able to come up with a defense that the government missed
Starting point is 00:29:23 or that the attorneys missed to the point where although it probably wouldn't have proven to be ultimately successful it's strong enough to obtain a series of evidentiary hearings where the government will say, you know what, we'll take the 25 down to 20. Right. They'll give in to something just to stop this process. Yes. You know what I mean?
Starting point is 00:29:43 And so that's the magic of Frank because with Martin Bradley, he took over Frank's, Frank took over Bradley's case. Bradley spent $5 million at trial. You know, had Roy Black. Yeah. Then he had $2 million on appeal attorneys. Loss his trial, lost his appeal. Spends a million dollars on, I think it was like Garland, Samuels,
Starting point is 00:30:04 or whatever it was the law firm out of Atlanta. and he's a million into his 2255, his habeas action. The claim that won was the one Frank did. Yeah. This guy's $8 million into lawyers. Cost him a six pack of soda. You know, he just caused him a few cases of soda. Right.
Starting point is 00:30:20 And that's the brilliance of Frank, where he's able to come up with claims that nobody else sees. Was that the one where he, I remember his appeal was going in, And at the last minute, Frank came running out and said, hey, he has to put this one in. Yes. He has to put this one. And it was just one of like 15, it was just one of, but that's the one they won on. That's the one they won.
Starting point is 00:30:43 And it was the last minute. Like he was like, you know, put this one in. Yeah, I, I, go ahead. There's going to be very few people like that. And so a guy like SBF, he shows up at the prison. He's not going to mean it. There's not going to be a Frank Commodeo there. No.
Starting point is 00:31:00 Now, if he was, the majority of the guys are going to be like rigs. Yeah. That's horrible. That's horrible. At the camp, you're going to have a number of attorneys because you have a lot of lawyer that actually at the minimum security institutions. The problem is by the time he gets there, all his claims will be time barred. Right.
Starting point is 00:31:18 And so he's essentially going to have to rely on the attorneys either on appeal or on 2255. Whereas with someone like Frank, he just brings such a tremendous institutional understanding. that's why to the extent anybody would have been in a position to help him it would have been
Starting point is 00:31:37 someone like Frank you know basically there was a a hedge fund guy out of New York Raj Raj Raj Raj Rajshartnam
Starting point is 00:31:46 right $11 billion fraud case or whatever the hell it was Julian Dory my buddy
Starting point is 00:31:53 in not New York he's in New Jersey he did a podcast with him okay yeah he spent 40 million on his defense
Starting point is 00:32:00 Jesus $40 million. And his attorney. Why just survive back to school when you can thrive by creating a space that does it all for you, no matter the size. Whether you're taking over your parents' basement or moving to campus,
Starting point is 00:32:16 IKEA has hundreds of design ideas and affordable options to complement any budget. After all, you're in your small space era. It's time to own it. Shop now at IKEA.ca. Bernie's put together a mosaic defense that I thought had that been put together for SBF, he may have been able to swing it. Unfortunately for Raj, you know, the co-conspirator was an attractive blonde that was sleeping
Starting point is 00:32:45 with executives from the companies and Roger's on the phone, clam like a fiddle, sweetheart. It's a whole life hard to get around that kind of evidence. But with SBFs, had he had someone with that, kind of creativity when Frank's high you know high on his cycle right unstoppable um yeah you know at the end of this video we have to put the Frank Amadeo you know the where you can click on it you have to um I can see if I can get the transcript there's a transcript from a judge and I forgot what court it was in and because you know Frank of course signs the pleadings on every case right he does
Starting point is 00:33:26 Yeah. So think about it. So if I file a motion, let's say, even if Frank prepares it, I still sign it. Like, it's my motion. Right. So I'm putting down, I'm fighting my own motion. I write the whole thing up. But of course, when Frank's helping you, he's really preparing it. You're just signing that you, you, you're putting it in. Frank would sign it. Frank would sign it. Frank Amadeo assisting, you know, boom. So there's tons of these motions out there. Some judges would get, initially, they would get furious that Frank had signed it. Who is this inmate? They would throw him back, kick him back and make them refile it and all kinds of stuff. But it got to a point where they just started letting it. Like, okay, everybody knew who he was. So they just started letting him sign him. I mean, it was total ego, by the way.
Starting point is 00:34:13 There's no reason for him to sign that. He's saying it's authored by. Authored by. There's no reason for him to say that. Other than he wants them to know, I am causing this problem for you. And so, and then when that job, judge issued its order, he made a point of going on his little digression, talking about Frank,
Starting point is 00:34:31 because Frank had signed the pleadings. For another, for another inmate. And the judge is going on about how every judge in the federal system throughout the entire country knows the high quality of work that Mr. Amadeo is doing on behalf of other inmates. It's ridiculous. You know, like, Frank essentially had that, like, laminated upon the wall. And, I mean, but that's why when you asked earlier, he had someone like him, yes, only because he's able to operate without any time constraints because the one thing Frank was a master of
Starting point is 00:35:02 was the extension of time. Yeah. And then it will just come to him. And, you know, I just don't see SBF getting any relief on a conviction. He may get a little bit of a break on a sentence, but even then... Well, like with Elizabeth Holmes,
Starting point is 00:35:19 she got what? Was it like 14? 11 years or 14 years. And then they reduce it by like two years. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, yeah. Like she literally got a couple of years knocked off immediately. They filed this. They filed that. And they said, came back. They found some mistake. And they said, okay, we'll knock off a couple more years. So she went from like 14 to like 11. That was another one. Like to me, I was in such shock that she got such a low sentence. I would have told you 25 or 30 years. Only because her crime, unlike SBF, who's always maintained, I didn't really do anything wrong. I know you don't understand what was happening. He was always trying to spin it. She blatantly, and multiple people got on the stand, and blatantly, she committed a fraud. Like, her whole thing was a fraud.
Starting point is 00:36:07 She was, you know, even if it was the whole, I'm faking it until I make it, like, you're, you're taking people's blood. You're having outside places. You're saying, we did the analysis, but you're really sending it to other labs. Like there's a whole, she had, I was it, I think it was Biden when he was, was it Biden that came to the facility? or was it, I think it was Biden that came to the facility and they did a whole song and dance with him where they're showing in the lab and they're like, nothing in the lab worked. Like it was all a dog and pony show. I mean, she's blatantly lying saying that the military is already using this technology.
Starting point is 00:36:40 I mean, there's so many things that she blatantly said to get more and more money. And it was just, it was just all a lie. So to me, I felt like her 20 to 30 years somewhere in there. She got like roughly 14 and then immediately got like three off. so um but yeah so so you're thinking he'll he's got what what you said 14 about 14 years 14 years before he'll become eligible under the fSA to get transferred to home confinement and no one's going to get a seven year placement at a halfway house and assuming they don't remove the management variable he's going to go to a medium he'll be there for a couple years and
Starting point is 00:37:16 go to a low go to a low and he'll be there for well whatever 10 yeah 10 and maybe do a year in a camp somewhere. So do you think that anybody will try and shake him down, like, you know, make him pay extortion? You don't think anybody would even dare step to him like that? No, they'll get shipped immediately to the East Coast. Okay. And not just him, the entire car. Right.
Starting point is 00:37:40 It'll be like Mr. Mosin, where it's like literally, the guy's in your own little ethnic group, race group, whatever click. Yeah. You're associated with. They're all going to be letting you know, hey, man, don't fuck with that guy. Right. Because it's not just you getting shipped, the entire car getting shipped.
Starting point is 00:37:57 And so if someone of that nature, he's not going to have very many problems. Now, of course, if it's a personal beef, if he screwed somebody out of money or whatever, then that's different. Yeah, like, I might just walk, punch him in the face. Yeah, but if it's, it's not going to be targeted activity.
Starting point is 00:38:10 I don't think he's going to have to screw. I mean, he's going to have plenty of money on his books. He's going to have... Oh, remember, he's got an enormous set restitution. Right. So put money on to other people's books, you know. If he figures out the thing is, is how funny is that?
Starting point is 00:38:22 Like, you think how easy it is, like, hey, put $300 on this guy's books. But the truth is, the types of people that he's associated with on the street, like, he asks his, mom, mom, I need you to do this. Yeah, they're not going to do it. She's going to be like, I'm not doing that. Yeah. I'll put money on your books. Yeah, but they're hitting me for $150.
Starting point is 00:38:38 Yeah, restitution and whatever. I need this. I need that. I don't care. I'm not. Both his parents are attorneys. So they're not going to be putting money on another inmate's books. Yeah, you're not getting me locked up.
Starting point is 00:38:49 I might lose my license. Yeah, her bar license. Right. Is there any thing that he should be acting right, different, or... No, I mean, look, when someone like that shows up, the Bureau's going to go out of the way to make sure he doesn't have any problems. For him, what he needs to do is obviously settle into a routine. Now, he needs to get an understanding on how he can try to assist his attorneys with developing claims.
Starting point is 00:39:14 The appeal process, he's got no input in, because that's going to be determined by the record. But going forward, you know, if he can get into... to a halfway decent legal class, where at least you understand what's going on. Because the last thing you want to do is go through the process, lose, and then five years later, oh man, I had a claim,
Starting point is 00:39:33 but you just don't know it at the time. So at least if he can participate in it, he's going to have the peace of mind to know, hey, look, you know, we brought the claims, we lost. You know, your case is over. I did 25 years in prison, 23 years from the day I was sentenced.
Starting point is 00:39:51 And we fought the case to the very last day. One, two appeals, three resentencings. And if it wasn't for COVID, I'd have gone back for another series of evidentiary hearings. When I got to the halfway house, literally the motion got withdrawn. Like, there's still 10 claims that were potentially legally viable. That, like, at some point, I was like,
Starting point is 00:40:12 look, I want to move out with my life. I don't want to be traveling back and forth to the Bay Area to do any additional hearings. and so when he started talking about people like how he started dreaming about prison that never happened to me i didn't spend a day in prison i was on the streets the entire time you also had hope the whole time you had hope is a strategy yeah yeah but you had the idea that you had something in court and you could win and get out i got to a point where i was like yeah so you actually transitioned right like i start i realize i'm going to be here and i'm going to be here and
Starting point is 00:40:46 And if I'm here, I need to basically, this is my life and I need to make a life here. Yes. You know? And that's the point where I'm saying he needs to get to. So once he loses his appeal, once he loses his post-conviction action, then it's like, okay, well, you know what? He'll be at a low by then. And like you said in your earlier story, it's really not that bad.
Starting point is 00:41:04 Yeah. Yeah. As long as you've got some good books. Yeah. Like, had he been in my old unit, you know, we had guys from NASA, we had guys from CIA, we had NSA hackers. so it was a very different population than the guys in your unit yeah yeah my unit there were dreads of the earth um but i was going to say if my advice you know he's still thinking legally
Starting point is 00:41:27 i'm saying like my advice is you know to not have problems is you try and get to a two-man sell as quick as possible you join a softball team you sign up for classes as many classes as possible Because all that will keep you mentally occupied. You get a job that you enjoy going to, like GED, something like that. Because first of all, going GED, even though you're dealing with guys that don't have their high school diploma, at least he'll feel like he's accomplishing something. Like when I worked with someone and they got their GED, like, it was like, wow, like this guy can barely read. It was like we started three months ago. He could barely do anything.
Starting point is 00:42:13 he just got his GED. It's silly, but it gives you these little incremental accomplishments. You know, it gives you a purpose, gives you something to get out of bed in the morning because you're so overwhelmingly depressed initially. And the other thing is, you know, which I think, I don't think it will be a problem for him, but you'd be shocked how many people have money that do run up bills. Like, don't borrow things from people. Don't talk about people.
Starting point is 00:42:36 Don't gamble. You know what I'm saying? Like, be respectful. Yeah, his type of personality, he's not going to have. Right, but I'm just saying. In general, well, he's super condescending. No, but here's the thing. He's condescending with people that he perceives as being subordinate to him.
Starting point is 00:42:54 Right. That are beneath him. Don't, I know what subordinate means. Don't you think he's going to think that about. No, because there's somebody who just sock him in the face. Right. And so now he's in an environment where he's not barking out commands to his girlfriend or his employees. Or the employees.
Starting point is 00:43:08 Or his lawyers. Now he's in a circumstance where he has to just, you know, mind his own business. business and he's naturally reclusive anyway. So you only have to get punched like one time to realize I, this is not, I need to alter this behavior. You know, like when, you know, I started off at a maximum security prison, I was the smallest guy on the yard. I had no problems.
Starting point is 00:43:28 Just mind your own business and, you know, stay focused. So for someone like himself, he doesn't have the kind of personality where he's going to be in the middle of other people's drama. He's the kind of guy that's going to be just, hey, man, I don't want to keep people at arm's length. Now he's going to end up falling into his little group where, you know, they're playing Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. Or maybe like a little bit of a science group. Like it depends on what prison he goes to. Right. You know what I mean? Like if he ends up at a prison, like, we had at our place where it was just NSA hackers left and right. Right. CIA hacker was somewhere
Starting point is 00:44:00 like that now all of a sudden. He's got people of his own ilk that he can have conversations with is, you know. He can start building business plans. He can start taking ideas from other individuals. You know, and quite frankly, you know, we had a number of guys at the prison. and that we were just at, that were legitimately outstanding traders. Right. You know, you had the guy that was in B, you were in B4, so this guy was in B3, Mr. McGinn. You know, Goldman Sachs, a guy, big-time banker,
Starting point is 00:44:27 you know, managing a half-billion dollar fund. Well, their classes are actually impactful. Right. So if you spend two years in Mr. McGinn's class, all of a sudden now you're actually able to come out and start trading. Right. I was going to say, also there was, what was the name of there, Lance? Do you remember Lance?
Starting point is 00:44:47 Lance Paulson? Lance Paulson. Yeah, we had four billionaires on the compound. A billionaire. We had four of them on that compound. And so. And Lance went to trial and they sent Lance to the pen. So, you know, sometimes they get angry with you for going to trial or for whatever reason.
Starting point is 00:45:07 He got sent to a pen. Wasn't there very long, but he was long. They're long enough to get smashed. Yeah. Yeah. Somebody punched him, knocked out his tooth, remember he was missing a tooth. Poor Lance, old man. He was just an old, he wasn't that grumpy.
Starting point is 00:45:21 He wasn't bad. I mean, I wouldn't invest with him. But, so what else? What else? I think, yeah. I got another one. This is the last question from the list. You already touched about it legally, but would you have fought his case differently, maybe
Starting point is 00:45:39 personally? like how he acted differently. Oh, God. What would you do differently? You already talked about the case. Like, try to find it differently. Look, sometimes guys that are very intelligent can do very dumb things.
Starting point is 00:45:55 Right. And in that circumstance, he was overly convinced in his ability to persuade. And so he ended up blocking himself into positions that later on he couldn't get out from underneath. Yeah. So he'd have been better off. just doing what the attorneys will always tell you is like look you know what don't speak with the media
Starting point is 00:46:14 right well that's i was good you said in the much to him i what i said was the his problem i've said this exact same thing pretty much where i said you know his problem is that he's one of those guys that thinks he's the smartest guy in the room you know and he felt like i'm going to go out there and i'm going to i'm so smart i'm going to be able to spin this in such a way that people are going to I'm going to convince people that it's not what they think, and I wasn't involved, and it was really just a series of some bad decisions, and it wasn't criminal. And the truth is, when you've got smart people there asking the right questions and you can't bamboozle them, then it just goes fucking wrong. So he should have just not spoken, you know, he, first of all, he should have been the first person in the door. When it was going under, when everything was starting to go under, he should have been the first person in the door saying, look, I fucked up.
Starting point is 00:47:05 Here's what I did. Here's what happened. I can help you with the case, you know, let's cut a deal something instead of what he did instead was it's, I'm not, I haven't done anything wrong, everybody's lying, this is what you think, you know, don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. Once they realized that he was essentially using FDX's money to bankrupt Alameda trading, you know, the jig was up. What, yeah, and then when his girlfriend, when everybody walked in, that just sealed the deal.
Starting point is 00:47:31 Yeah, that's just bolstering the government's case. Yeah. But, you know, the dipping into the investor funds, just self-dealing. Yeah. It's the capital blue boat. You know, okay. Yeah, it's all. It's all to, you know, the $30 million penthouse.
Starting point is 00:47:47 And, you know, at some point, you have to understand that federal prosecutors are very good at what they do. And they have unlimited resources. And when the FBI gets involved and they bring in all their forensic experts, then at that point, you've got to, to create a different scenario and there's just no spinning his way out of that. Hey, so this was my buddy Pete and Pete recently got released from prison and Pete also Pete and Amadeo helped me with all my legal work. So that's why he's, he's here and why we went over the FTX sentencing. So I really appreciate you guys watching. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you get notified of videos like this.
Starting point is 00:48:33 please consider joining my Patreon and leave me a comment in the comment section and share the video because it really does help if you've been listening we referred to a guy named frank amadeo so we're going to go ahead and put the link up here and you can watch frank amadeo's full story and it's a super interesting case uh it's super interesting very long video but a great video to watch so check it out and um i appreciate you guys watching

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