Matthew Cox | Inside True Crime Podcast - Wrongfully Convicted in the Weirdest Trial Ever

Episode Date: May 24, 2025

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What I did was start duplicating prescriptions. It went over so well, I started doing it more and more and more, right? All of a sudden, it was a highway patrolman was coming to my apartment at night and shining a light in my apartment window. I opened the door, dude, and they were laying on my car with AR-15s or whatever, planting guns everywhere. God, that's a crap, man. They ran up, and he handcuffed me and picked me up, and they started screaming at me,

where's the guns? I'm like, what? I don't have any guns. I was born into Soto, Kansas. I had four sisters, lived with my mom and dad. They got a divorce when I was like, I don't know, 16, 17 years old, something like that. I was already pretty much out on my own anyways. And I didn't have any real, you know, I drank and did a little drugs and stuff,

but I didn't really do any, I wasn't into any real criminal activity. You know, nothing, nothing. I'd never been to jail, nothing. Up until, well, one time I did, the very first time I ever went to jail, I was driving. home from work and i got pulled over and they said i had a suspended driver's license i went to jail it was for one night but and it wasn't suspended of all things it really wasn't and they had to let me go so nothing came of that but years go by i get married i have a couple kids and i developed a pretty significant drug problem like i started doing a bunch of uh xanax and methadone right and it

and it just turned my life into a i mean it was like a fucking you just just a mess. It just started spiraling out of control. It took a few years. Why Xanax and methadome? Like what? Okay. Well, I don't know. I just ran into that combination of drugs from somebody I knew and it worked. It was fantastic when you mix them together. It's a it's a it's the high thing you're advocating. Huh? Not that you're advocating. No, I'm not. It is amazing. It was amazing though. But I was it was a it was an extremely addictive too. I mean, I was really addicted to it real fast. So what happened was I couldn't stop taking it because I'd get so, so you get so sick.

You know, a couple days, you know, probably if you could, Xanax will make you really sick after a couple months of taking it. If you try to, you can't just quit taking it. You'll get so sick, you know, I could. It was, this is what happened. It was a big roller coaster. If I wasn't high, I couldn't go to work. I couldn't get up and go to work, you know. And I couldn't take care of myself.

So it was just a, you know, I'd get so sick. I couldn't get out of bed. And so I'd have to go to work to get enough money to go get some more drugs, you know. And then eventually I figured out how to go to, they have what's called methadone clinics. They have them all over the country, but they have one, you know, they have a few around here. And I figured that out. It was before the whole prescription, before they check on it, you know. And I was, you could go to a couple of them at a time and stuff.

So it got worse. It gets worse and worse. well i get up where i'm like i don't know how old was like 40 45 years old and i'm married i got two kids and we're living together yeah yeah 40 i think it was 40 41 and um me and my wife getting a getting a big fight and i left that night i can it's it's fuzzy it doesn't really matter but i left and um i just i didn't really have anywhere to go so i just got away from the situation i thought the cops were going to show up now they i don't think they did that night but the next day I'm driving around

I'm gonna go home sometime I think if my drugs were at home or something but anyways this is how it all starts man this turn to do a fucking shit show I go pulling up to my house and I I get out of my car

and I open the door fucking everybody cops from all over the fucking place just come storming me like I'm Hitler or something and I'm like oh fuck oh my God I can imagine myself and Joe with no drugs I'm gonna die in there I'll, you know, I'll die.

I got to, I gotta, you gotta do what I can while I can. And I took out this bottle up, the rest of the drugs. I had, and I ate it all. Everything I had, everything I had. And so they come storming up there. I didn't even move. I was in that, literally like in the jam of my door. And I just pulled it out of my pocket.

And I took it all. And they come storming in there, arrest me. And I can remember this. I can remember getting in the cop car and them asking me what happened between me and my wife. you know what did i do what did she do whatever and they're you know they're taking me to jail and i black out that's it i can't remember anything i didn't even i don't think we made it out of the city limits and uh i black out and uh i and you know how you i don't know if it's ever happened to you before but you have little bits uh you know you bit little bits of memory and uh i get to the

jail and there's a there's a there's a there's this guard there named oddborn i got to know later but uh he's trying to book me in but i can't i'm so incoherent i can't i can't answer the guy's questions you know and i couldn't hardly stand up to get fingerprinted and uh he was like i remember him saying come on man come on let's just get let's just get through this what did you take what did you do and i couldn't answer i couldn't answer no questions nothing so he had to hold me up during the mug shot and this thing literally they're just too kind of something besides me and i'm that's what i look like in this mug shot just pass them out and then they they knew something was wrong but they didn't know what it was

because i couldn't answer the question right so they took they put me in medical and medical is nothing but a cell with a bed a plastic bed you know if you've ever been in jail medical it's it's not it's not medical shit there's no like it's it's not like a hospital room there's just a plastic bed and like a day later or so the door opens and uh they a bunch of cops come storming in and they're on both sides of me and they they throw me a bunch of paperwork, you know, and it's a bunch of charge. It was a bunch of charges. I can't remember what they were, but the main thing was I couldn't go back home. I had a restraining order. I couldn't go back to my house. You know, I was charged with whatever the crimes were. Okay, it was domestic

violence, destruction of property, and a bunch of other misdemeanors, right? Really not that big of a deal, but this is the first time I've ever been in a jail. And I couldn't go back to my house. I'm like, what am I supposed to do? I mean, I'm still. I'm still. here in jail. I don't know what I was wearing. A pair of 10 inches on some jeans. My car was at home. Everything. I don't know how I got it. But anyway, so eventually, I did go back home, got some stuff, got my car. And I think I went to my sister's house. I don't know where I went. But that's how it kicks off. So I go to court the first time in court, and they assign me this insane idiot public defender.

It was a woman. Totally incompetent. This woman, I don't think, well, first of all, I know she'd never, ever been to a trial. Now, how long she'd been a lawyer? I'm not sure if it was that day. She was new or what. But she gets to talking to me, immediately trying to get me to take a plea. You need to, you need to just, I'm like, what?

I didn't do that. I didn't hit my wife. Yeah, I tore up some shit in my house. We were, you were fighting and stuff, but I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't fucking hit anybody or, you know, nothing. It was no violence at all. And the shit's mine. What are you talking about?

about you know you know this is my stuff it gives a fuck what i brick so anyway i'm not having it i'm not taking a plea because i think i'm i don't know i should have but i thought i was just i'm not guilty i'm i'm taking it to trial and right away she gets real nervous and she's trying to talk me out of it i'm like what are you talking about i told you i'm you know i thought you were my lawyer you know what are you talking about and she even tried to say you know um um where's your wife? And my wife was in the car. It was funny. I'm like, I don't know. I'm not supposed to talk to her. I'm supposed to talk to my wife. She goes, well, if I find out your talk to your wife, I'll have to not be your lawyer anymore. I'm like, what? Okay. I didn't realize that the lawyer isn't supposed to know you're guilty or some. You can't outright tell your lawyer that you're guilty. And then they can't defend you in good conscience. Like, let's say you commit it or I don't think you can tell your lawyer. Yeah, I did it. No. But let's just try to be it. Well, I don't. I I didn't know that. You could tell them, but then they can't allow you to get on the stand and copy that.

Is that how it is? Yeah, they can't allow you. They can't put, then put you on the stand and have you say, I didn't kill that girl. I don't know what you're talking about. They'd be like, no, no, we can't do that. I mean, here's what I thought. I thought the larger was there to lie through court. I mean, I thought it was their job.

I had no idea, right? So apparently she wasn't on board with it either, but it wasn't. for that reason. It was just because she, she was an idiot. I'm a stungle idiot, but I keep pushing it. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not doing it. Why would I take a plea on something like that? It's ridiculous. Even if I got found guilty, what would be the worst thing that could happen? What, you know, what would happen? You could go to jail for a year. I'm like, I don't think I'm going to go to, I don't think I'm going to go to prison or jail over this. I don't think so, right? So I push this and push you and push it until they do it. They're like,

Like there's a pre-trial, you know, and this lady is just, I'm like, I didn't know what was wrong throughout the time. I'm like, are you that fucking stupid? Are you really that stupid? And I pushed it and pushed it until finally there was a trial. There was a jury trial. And this is a true, totally true story too. And I hadn't been really talking to my wife. It was back and forth. It was on and on, just a mess, right?

I know I wasn't living there. I know that I wasn't living at the house. But she had to be a witness. and she was the witness. It was the only witness they had, right? Because the whole thing was a conserved. But this time she doesn't want anything to do with the whole mess anyways, right? But I had pushed it all the way to trial all the way up until even through the jury selection.

She had no idea about anything about jury selection. I'm like, are you kidding me? You don't know that you can strike jurors and, you know, we don't want, I don't want any. My thing is, I'm like, don't get, I don't want any male jurors. Women hate women is what I thought. I'm like, women hate women. I want all women on my jury. want no males on my jury right she's she's an idiot so we get through it we get through

and the more it goes on the more nervous this idiot it's getting right and uh we get through this trial we get through that and we get to this trial okay it's and it's a real during trial and this woman is is 10 times more nervous than i am about this whole trial and i still didn't get out like man what does run with this weirdo and the prosecutor gets up they get to speak first i know they spoke first in this deal the prosecutor gets up and he starts babbling on to the jury about you know folks is what he said you know folks this isn't like c s i there's not going to be any dna in this case there's not going to be any this and that in this case this is the case of a mad man at the end of his rope this man's crazy he's a white beating a lunatic you know or just

he just goes off about what a horrible bastard i am you know and then she gets up it's her turn to get up and fucking defend me And she's so nervous about talking in front of the jury and the judge and she starts repeating what the guy said. I mean, like verbatim, like, you know, folks, does see a sign? I'm like, what the fuck is going on in it, you know? So it's still, it gets rolling, you know, and they, yeah, I think they only had, I think she was the only witness. I think, but I think that maybe they had some state people. I don't know.

I don't know, but anyways, my wife was there. And she gets up on the stand and they start asking her questions then. She's like, I don't know. I can't really remember. I don't really know. Well, did he hit you? I don't think so. I think I just said that.

You know, this stuff. Listen, this goes on for quite a while. And the prosecutor's getting pissed. This guy's getting just, he's mad at her. He's pushing her and pushing her. And then I think, okay, it comes time from my lawyer to cross-examine her. And she gets up there and just starts like insult my wife. And I'm like, in the middle of the time,

I'm like, hey, that's enough. Just sit down. That's enough. Enough's enough that she just sounded so bad. I'm like, just sit down and shut up. I said it in front of the jury and I'm just shut, just shut up. She's shut up, you know, and we get in a little argument. And I'm like, okay, that's a, you're on her, we got to have a break, whatever.

And he's like, he excuses the jury. They get up and walk, literally they walk out. And he's like, okay, what's the problem? I'm like, she's an idiot. She is a fucking idiot. I mean, you can see. She can't even understand. the difference between overruled and sustained she's you're killing me here i can you got to do

something you got to stop it there's i mean you can see this is this is just lunacy and he won't do it and that judge sumby by the way that's who this was the guy that throughout this whole thing he won't do it he won't he's like no it's too late we're too deep into this we got to keep going but the prosecutor comes over with a note and he has it to my lawyer and i'm like hey what the fuck is that give me that you know and it's says, hey, it was a deal. They said, hey, right now we'll go back in the jury room and we'll give him that chance to find you guilty of a lesser charge. How about that? And I was like, okay, that's what I told him. Okay. She said no or something. She's like, no, I'm like, what are you

knicking nuts? Go, yes, go telling that. You know? So anyways, we have a break. This is an absolutely true story. And I go out in the hallway. And there's a guy sitting in the hallway. And it was just me and this stranger in the hallway. And I strike up a conversation with the guy and come to find out it's, it's the husband of one of the jurors. And he's like, man, what the fuck is going on in there? He starts to ask me about this case. And we're standing up this window, looking at the window of the courtroom. And I go, man, listen, my wife is, she's fucking crazy. She's out of her mind. She's not frankestreet, whatever. And we're looking at the window at the parking lot. She stole my truck. Right out of the parking lot right in front of me in this.

guy. I'm like, she's fucking took my, stole my job, got the keys and drove off in the middle of the trial. She was a witness. And now I was stuck there with no right home. I'm like, you see what I mean? When you get home, tell your wife the truth about this whole case. I mean, she can't hear. She's on the jury. She doesn't know what's going on. How crazy it is, you know? He goes, oh my God. Well, what's going to happen to you if you get found guilty? And I'm like, I don't know. They said, you know, it could be up to a year in jail. But. I don't think they'll do that, you know. So anyway, long story short, they come back and they find me not guilty of everything

except for the lesser jars that the guy, that the prosecutor. Your wife, listen, your lawyer was right. You shouldn't have let them charge you with the lesser charge. Then they would have just found you're not guilty. They may have. They may have. I don't know. They very well could have been.

And it was like a miracle. I couldn't believe it. I looked at my mom. I'm like, you idiot. You owe me because you won this effing trial, you know? so I think now I think sentencing went and he went straight from that to sentencing

or it might have been a couple weeks either way or back in the court and I got the same idiot with me and the prosecutor literally said this so the judge says yeah he was found guilty it was something it was super minor destruction of property I think the prosecutor stands up

and he says your honor I know that the jury only found Mr. Booker Meyer guilty of destruction of property but we all know we were all here during the trial we all know that he's guilty And he tries to get me sentenced to the same, the actual sentence. And I'm like, I'll go in my idiot lawyer.

I'm like, look, listen to what he's saying? Can't you object to this or say? I've never heard anything like that trying to get me sentence for something that the jury found me innocent of. You know, now, of course, the judge was like, you know, I ain't doing that. I can't say. They found him not guilty. I can't sentence him. You know what I'm saying?

I'm like, this doesn't. Oh, my God. I can't believe this fucking happened in. This doesn't feel like a super sufficient. Um, you know, a legal, criminal justice system. It is, though. It's in Leavenworth. It's in Leavenworth County, dude.

It's a kind of a big deal. It's, I mean, I mean, they know, they're really, really, um, you know, the wing in it. Dude, she was, here's what I think happened now from my later experiences, the whole, which goes on for quite some time. Uh, so I get to know all these players in this, including her. In fact, I went to traffic court the other day. You've seen that idiot there. I mean, oh, God.

can't stand this woman she's still there she still works there i think it was the first time it was her first month on the job and the the the lawyers in the judge felt sorry for her they were trying to help her you know trying to help her through the whole thing so she can keep her job or whatever i don't know i bet you she's never been in the trial again since i pay that but she won you know so she has a one-no record because she made she's amazing she probably thinks she's amazing oh she made i won my first trial can you imagine what the prosecutor felt like the prosecutor who was serious and uh todd thompson says his name i still remember it that's how i wanted to get i hate the guys so i hated the whole prosecution it feels so personal when they're prosecuting you doesn't it's

like like they care i know they if they don't care really they don't even think about you but no i just want to choke them on you know what i mean they don't care they don't go home and think about you they think about you 10 minutes before the case when they're looking at the paperwork oh yeah it's picklemyer again i hate it you got a red mark over my name you know a little a highlighter with a red market right i wrote a i wrote a um i got a smiley face with a frown on it i must not like it we don't like this guy we don't he he's mean he's mean to girls oh yeah my lawyer said that so so she i said i'm giving her a bunch of shit she goes yeah well you know maybe you just don't like women maybe that's your problem i said what maybe you're an idiot man how about that maybe you're

just a complete i'm a huge fan of women yeah i'm a huge fan of women Yeah, I love my absolutely. No kidding. Nobody's a bigger fan of women than me. Trust me. How do you think I got here? So anyway, that all comes and goes. But now, it came with some stipulations like six months of probation.

But it wasn't, it's not really sophisticated probation. Like, you've got to go once a month. There's something like that, right? But I'm in the middle of a drug crazed. lunacy. I can't hold myself. You know what I mean? I can't. I'm not going to make six months of any kind of supervision. Dude, I'm out of control, right? I can't. I mean, I can't do anything. It's like my brain was put in a blender. It was horrible. I couldn't hardly function. I mean, I was passing out at stoplights. I passed it on the highway on the way to

the methadone clinic one day. I mean, that's how bad it was. So you can imagine me trying to keep a job, right? I have a bunch of credentials. So I can go get a job in the field that I'm in, I can always get a job enough. Yeah, but I couldn't keep, I couldn't, man, they would, I would try to hold this gather. I'm so hard. Try not to go there as high as I was going to be, but eventually they start seeing it, right? They're like, oh man, something ain't right. Something ain't right with this guy. You know, one day I drove, I'm not kidding, I drove all the way from my house from Yador, Kansas to my job in fucking Missouri without my shoes on forgot to put my shoes on and I get all the weed at 635 I'm like

oh man I got to turn around I don't have my fucking shoes on that's how that's how bad it was okay now that's towards the end but so anyways I get I get out of core I get found a guilty of that one crime and then so that kicked off everything so now they're over my shoulder watching me you know and I got a report and I got to pass a drug test which I can't pass it I can't pass it There's no way. It's just impossible. I can't. I mean, it would take weeks. You know, I can't. I'd be dead in the gutter before I, you know, before I could pass the drug test. So I don't think that was a stipulation of the at the time. It was just real, you know, you had to go to work and start paying your fines. None of which I ever did. I never paid one dollar of the fines. And I refused to. I just didn't want to do it. I'm like, what are they going to do? Well, they can actually, they can send it to two collections and put on your credit report. You know, but they really can't force you to pay it. Right. So anyways, I never did. I didn't, you know, I'd make a little $50 payment or something when my probation officer asks, you know. So anyways, I'm on probation and I'm not living at home. And this is when it got really bad. Since I'm not at my house and me and my wife first, now we're separated. And I can't even remember what I was living in. I wasn't living alone. I was either with my sister or my mom. And I have all these people looking over my shoulder and a bunch of, you know, I was supposed to. go to the ridiculous shit they had me doing. Some kind of classes I had to take, something, you know, just a little shit like that.

But I couldn't keep it together long enough to do any of this stuff. So let me see what happened next. Okay, so how are you getting money to continue doing drugs? How are you getting money to do that? Yeah, I would work. I would just work until I got fired. I go get another job. I'm really good at what I do.

I just had it. I can keep it together for a few weeks, you know what I mean? And I can do stuff on the side. It's a long story, but I can make money. I never was out stealing for drugs because I would be, by the time I just couldn't do it. I mean, I used to sit around and plot drugstore robberies and drugstore heists. I mean, I'd sit out in one of the drugstore looking, seeing when they got there. You know, thinking about it, I just never had the guts to do it.

And, yeah, I was, I was too, if I was sober, I was too sick to rob it. And if I was high, I didn't care. Why would I want to rob the drugstore? I already got a bunch of drugs. You know what I'm saying? I didn't. Right. So I never got around to robbing the drugstore like I planned.

But here's what I did do. I interviewed the guy that did that movie, OxyMorons. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen the movie. They used to rob drugstores. There's a, there's one, a movie with Matt Dillon in it called Drugs for Cowboys. You see that?

That was a great movie. Yeah. The hat on the bed. Do you remember that? That was a big deal. They threw the hat on the bat on the bed and they were like, you know, someone took a hat off and threw it on the bed. Oh, yeah.

It was a bad luck. It was bad luck. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I got real close to Robin drugs, I believe me. So instead, what I did was start duplicating prescriptions,

which went over real well. It went over so well. I started doing it more and more and more, right? And here's how that ended. This really happened. I took, it was so simple.

I'm like, dude, the numbers on here and everything. All I got to do is just copy it. I mean, why can't I just go to Kinkos and make a bunch of coffees? Right.

So I did. right and it went great it was for like a long time until finally one day I went to the pharmacy and you're always a little bit nervous wait for your prescription to fill you know and the pharmacist called me up there and she goes hey listen uh I know this isn't a real prescription and uh but I have to report it so I'm going to give you 15 minutes to go as far away from here as you can go before I do anything about this and don't ever come back in this drug store yet I said okay I'll see you later so I never did it again you know I never got caught luckily God, damn.

I don't know. What's the statute of limitations? It's been, it's been long enough. It's been like six or seven years, right? Most of the time. I should know that where I started talking about. It could be three to five years. Okay, so it's been longer than five.

Yeah, I went to jail. It's been longer than five. So I can talk about any of these crimes. There's some, so yeah, I wasn't out stealing. I was doing stuff like that. You know what I mean? So I did that. It worked for a while.

And then I had to go back to buy and then going back to the clinic or whatever. Or, and then eventually I just got to call. crooked doctor. You know, this doctor in in Leavenmore, this is connected to. He gets busted. You could just go in there. I was taking people in there. It was like a pill mill.

It was like that guy, you know, and you just get whatever you want. I'd bring take, have other people go there. You know, I had this whole thing set up. I can get whatever I want. And then the guy gets, the guy gets busted. Now, remember this for later. He gets caught. The doctor gets caught.

And they didn't put him in jail, but they prosecuted him and took away his license and he can't so he couldn't prescribe drugs anymore but this is this is important because later on it will come up about the lawyer um so that was not related to the to the story really but that's what happened that's how i was getting the drugs anyway so it goes this goes on and on i keep getting in trouble let me think about what happened next because it gets real it gets really serious okay my wife while i'm in while i'm going to this my wife separates from me and then and then we start fighting over the kids right i have two daughters who I love and I couldn't not be around them and uh this is it's turning to it just a giant shit

show uh there so we're fighting over the kids and and there was another case something to do with the kid we start having to they have to mediate or something i don't know so that turned into something and uh this is over this took a couple years let me think about what happened next so i went to jail for that then i get arrested again a couple times for like calling my wife breaking a restraining order i'm going to jail constantly every time they i come to the town they see me and pull me over and take me to jail you know so this starts my jail career and i started getting another people in the jail and the jailers and stuff and so so let's make it short this this went on for it so like a couple years later a couple years later it's really bad

the drug addiction is out of control i can't do nothing and uh i go to work one day or try to go to work one day and got fired and then uh what i did was i went to my in-law's house to drop something off and by this time that the uh the uh the restraining orders are real serious they're taking them real seriously now right because i've already been i've already been caught and they're pissed about it and they don't have nothing to do in the stupid town anyways but watch idiots like me so yeah and they're excited they can't wait to arrest me you know what i mean they barge my house or a traffic ticket so but they're serious about it and i i went into my in-laws house uh to see my kids or something and I didn't it wasn't scheduled and I wasn't supposed to be there right but I didn't

think it was any big deal and I wanted to see my daughter I knew my daughters were there and I so I walk in there's nobody there I'm like hey what's going on where's everybody at I mean I've been in this place a million times I never knock on the door I was always walked in I but by this time I'd been married for like 10 or 15 years and um you know I go back home and and this is when it really gets get hairy all this so I'm on probation no job I just got fired I don't know what I don't know what I'm going to do and I'm going to the I still got to go to the clinic I still got to get drugs I got to do something I got to have money you know I'm getting real freaked out about it well all of a sudden this this cop starts it was a highway patrolman was was coming to my apartment at night and shining a light in my apartment window I lived in this apartment right across street from the police station at this time in your door Kansas and this cop a highway patrolman of all things I have no idea why and I didn't know what it was at the time. I didn't know that what was going on.

I really didn't have any idea. But I had a clue. I had, this is what I thought. That a day or so before I'd gone to this Casey's in my small town, I lived in him. And I was, I was giving this Casey's irrational shit. I hated the people that were there. And I was stole gas a couple times. I'd done some stupid shit at the store.

And they weren't supposed to serve me, right? They weren't supposed to turn the pumps on when I pull up to the thing. So I pull up to get gas one day. The lady won't turn the pumps on. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? I'm pushing the button and put a fucking pump on, right? She won't do it. Okay.

So, oh, you, you bitch. You bitch. Okay. So I pulled my car up beside her car and slashed all four of her desires and said, yes. Like, dude, and this, so this turns into a fucking manhunt, dude. A manhunt. The people from Casey's are hunting me down.

She's to find out where I'm at. And they call the cops. And the cops are calling me. And I know what that's about. Okay, so I think that that's what's going on with this highway patrolman. It's no big deal. Whatever, if they catch me, they don't, they don't know what was me that didn't. They just suspect it was me, you know what I mean?

I'm not an idiot. I didn't do it on camera. It was a really cruel thing to do. And if I knew the lady, I'd pay her back. I really would, but I don't know who it was. Now, she was an idiot anyways. So I think it's a manhunt over some flash tires of cases is what I think is going on. And the guy's shining in the, and I'm hiding in the fucking bathtub in my, in my apartment.

And that wasn't what it was. So anyways, I get up the next day. I get up like the next day. And I'm, I get to drive around this town and hide from the cops. They're right across the street, you know, I get up early, take off out of my, and go run my errands. My main thing was I had to get to get to the clinic or else I was going to die. If I didn't go to the meth, I'm going to get so sick. And, you know, I get up and go do that.

And when I'm driving home from that, my fucking probation officer calls me. What are you doing? She never, never called me for it. Nothing. I'm taking, just runs some errands. What's going on? can you come in and see me today? No.

Yeah, that ain't a good sign. I'm not, nobody's ever called me and asked me come in and see him. I know what it is. But I didn't really know what it was. I didn't really, you know,

I'd been doing a bunch of stupid shit, but I didn't know. I knew it was serious at this time. And I said, no, I said, I don't know what's going on. She wouldn't tell me,

and she goes, okay, forget it. You had a more for your rest. You better pee in here than the next hour. Now I know, right? Now I know. And I'm like,

And I'm not, what am I going to do now? What am I going to do now? Oh, man, what am I going to do? So, no job, no, you know, hardly had any money. So right then I'm driving back, uh, I'm driving back from that phone call and I passed the police station. I got to turn to go to my apartment right across the street from them. They're all gathered around in the, in the, like in the fire department area.

There's a whole bunch of cops, man. And they're all gathered around and I pull up and have to stop the stop sign right next so, dude. I could almost touch zone. And they all turned around. there he is get him you know get him and so i'm like oh fuck i'm pulling up i'm pulling in my driveway parking i run inside shut the door and i started down on my bondsman i'm like oh fuck i got i'm about dropping the phone i get the guy on the line hey man the fucking cops are they're oh my god

they're surrounding my apartment dude you got to make sure at the jail and i get to the jail and find out what the bond is and i thought it was just the tire thing you know i didn't know right what was it Okay, listen, dude, there's, I'm in the bathroom, and I had a bunch of money in my pocket. Luckily, I don't even know how I had it. It's a couple thousand dollars, I think. And I think that's how I had where I had it. But anyways, I took it out of my pocket, and I told the boss, I said, dude, he's in my apartment in my fucking bathroom drawer. Just come get whatever you need and come get out of jail.

You know, I knew the guy, real while I still known to this day. And I slammed them, and I was, I put the phone down. I heard him. They had like a megaphone. They had like a megaphone. They'll come out with your hands up. don't make any fucking crazy moves or you know and i'm like oh my fucking really oh shit and i think i called my sister oh my god amy listen the cops are surrounded by farm range you go well go out there

go go out there and dude i was scared to open the door but i knew just within it within a couple seconds they were going to throw flashbang grenades to the they were all over i looked i looked up the window they were across the street there were there was cops everywhere the whole fucking block was lit up and uh i opened the door dude and they're laying i'm not kidding they were laying on my car with AR 14, 15s or whatever, playing guns everywhere. Guns all over the place.

Get on the fucking grab, man. You know, so I got on, I did everything they said, and they ran up and handcuffed me and, and picked me up, and they start screaming at me, where's all the guns? Where's the guns?

Where's all the guns? I'm like, what? I don't have any guns. What are you talking about? What do you mean guns? So they just, they just like, pull me to the side, they start in the storming in my apartment.

No, there's weren't no, no, no, nothing. I don't know what they, they'd have found something if they could have done it there was but there was nothing there was no fucking guns in my i don't have any guns so they stormed in they come out and they're like there's no guns are in your house i'm like yeah that's what i'm trying to tell you there's no guns what are you talking about what do you i don't understand what's going on what's the want for they wouldn't tell me they wouldn't tell me for a while and they were like just wait a minute until our uh until our boss gets here for two long a second we got to figure this out i'm like

yeah yeah i'd like to know what this is all about is i mean all my neighbors are looking out the window you know what i mean everybody in town knows about it because it's right on main street too and um finally this this chief of police who i know who i happen to know from that you know getting in trouble in that town he comes walking up to me and he's like go my what's what's going on i'm like i have listen to you i'm not the one with the guns i don't know if they're asking me about guns where's all the guns they they told us that you wouldn't come out alive you wouldn't come out alive i'm like oh my god what what are you talking about he goes he goes who would say that i'm like dude i don't i don't have

any fucking idea who would say something like i really didn't know like i and he goes man you think about got you shot i'm like yeah yeah i see that you know and he goes well all right well that's good i mean that's that's that's it but you do have some warrants and i'm like for what what's what's for uh well you got one this is the only one i remember now and i try to get some some stuff from the courthouse there was a whole bunch of charges but the one of the one I was only one I was worried about was aggravated burglary that was the charge that they tried

charged me with basically for going to my in-laws house and they said they were there they just hid they just went hid whatever it was a long time ago they they were pretty mad at me too but maybe they did go hide I don't know they said they were in the house when I was in there

I walked right in the living room hey where's everybody else looked in the refrigerator for something to drink you know what I mean it was it was it was ridiculous i don't know what the motivation was uh to do it i think they just wanted me under control they were i mean i was a loose cannon like who does that at cases you know and and passing out it i mean i just i just wasn't you know wasn't all with it and they knew it and they wanted me they just wanted something to happen they wanted me off the street and i hope man everybody did you know so they did it so it worked you know so

they i go to jail and you know you have a bond hearing like the next next day. Right. I'm still, I'm still, dude, totally confused about what's going on. No, I mean, I had an idea. I knew what it was basically about, but I didn't, I didn't know how serious it was at all. I didn't have any idea of the severity of this situation. And it took a couple days. Finally, I go to bond court, and it's a huge deal in there. There's a prosecutor in there. Your Honor, I'm a, you know, this is, I'm here on special appearance. She wasn't the regular prosecutor. It was like, basically they tried to say this. We had to drag it. extra prosecutor, special prosecutor here for Mr. Vicklemyer.

He's out of control. This man, he's a dangerous society. And by this time, I'd already gotten in, I was already in segregation in jail for something. I didn't jail. So I don't know if they do that there. But they put you in red in this jail. So they can identify. I know you're a problem.

Yes, you're a problem in red already. And I haven't even been to Vaughn for you yet. They're like, as you can see, Mr. Vigalmeyer is handcuffed and a hand in a red jumps. You know, he's obviously out of his mind. He can't be controlled. He's a madman. you know and i'm like oh my what well we got to get him a logger so this here's where it starts man so i think they assigned me that idiot woman again i think is what happened i'm like oh my god

but i this is so serious man now i'm scared no it's a felony there's a felony there's a felony i've never faced a felony charge before and that's what's got me shook up and the fact that i'm in jail and i have no drugs no access to drugs and i'm about to die from withdrawal which is a legitimate concern of mine. I was really worried about diet. I knew I could detox if I could live through it. But that's how bad it was. I'm serious. It was really, really, really bad. So they set the bond of like $150,000 or $250,000 over this ridiculous case where I hadn't even been to, to no evidentiary hearing or anything yet. The bond is just ridiculous. I'm like, I can't. Oh, Jesus Christ, man. I remember so I leave that, I leave bond cord. And it's sitting in now.

I'm like, oh, dude, I'm going to be in here for a long time. And I told the jailer in the elevator, I said, man, listen, I'm going to be in here a long time. And I don't know if I'm going to make it. I mean, it's going to be bad. What can I do? And he said, okay, the guy was really cool about it, too. He said, listen, as soon as let me get everybody, you know, back to the pods and everything, and I'll, you stay here and I'll come get you. Well, I'll take you to the medical.

And I'm like, oh, thank God. Maybe they can, maybe they can help you. you know dude yeah they don't they expect they don't care either that's the thing they don't they want you to suffer that's their purpose that's what they think you know what i mean so they take me to the nurse and she goes okay what are you doing and i was honest with her i'm like listen lady you've never you've never met anybody like me listen to what i'm doing this is very serious i tell her i lay it all out dude the the quantities i'm like i have to have this and this every day or else i can't i can't walk really and she's like yeah well we've heard that

before you know and you're going to be okay and she says well here's what i'm going to tell you she gives me a styrofoam cup just drink a lot of water and we'll keep an eye on you for a couple days we'll keep you in medical for a couple days and just drink a lot of water i'm like oh god i know it's coming i know these serious withdraws and i've been through it before on my own so i knew it was going to be bad and so they put me in medical and this now mind you i've only been to jail for a two days now so i'm not even getting sick yet by the third or fourth day is when you start getting a little bit sick but it takes about a week before it's really out of your body and you're really really really sick right and so i'm already in segregation at this time anyway so thank god so they that's all

medical is anyways it's a cell with nothing in you know it's no different than the cell that you're in and they can just they just don't want to come upstairs where you're at and come check on you they have to take if you tell them you're you're going through a draws they have to uh they're not to do shit until your blood pressure drops or something and then they give you like a ton all it's nothing and i think they gave me a tonne all once once the entire time i mean they'll let you die in there you could have a broken arm and they just i mean you wouldn't go to medical you just suffered through it you know they just they won't do anything about it and i'm like oh jesus i'm gonna i'm gonna die in this fucking place and uh but i didn't i i went back i went through the whole medical thing

in the jail where they come in every it was horrible they come in every 15 minutes and take your blood pressure they wake you up all night long it's horrible it's worse than being you know some just put me back I'll just go all this suffer through it you know so they put me back in a regular pod and and I'm sick

and worried too now because you have to be able to defend yourself in jail to some extent I mean you have to be able to at least try to fight you know what I mean and it's a fairly violent jail it's a maximum security jail I think it's as secure of a as it can be you know you can there's nobody you can get out and walk around in the pod and this pod's

real loud and and you know so i got and i did i got in a fight in the in that pod with back to segregation so i'm stuck in there um which actually turned out to be better because i was at least alone and it was cool a little bit quieter you know and i couldn't eat man it was i weighed i probably weighed i in fact last not too long I got a traffic ticket and I had to I missed the court day and I had to go turn myself in you know just go through booking and

pay the fine or whatever which is what I did well when I went to that jail they all seen me and they were like oh my God oh my God and they got all the other cops they're like check come down here and look at Bechlemyre and they're like oh I gained like 100 pounds you know I weighed like 150 pounds and when I went in the

when they first seen me in that jail they were showing me old mugshots look at him you know look she can't even tell a different i mean you can't even say it's the same guy you know a bunch of the people from the jail they all knew me they're all there the whole the whole crew is still in that fucking jail and um so anyway where was i so i'm in jail i'm sick i'm dying in this of cell i mean i really do think that i you can die from withdraws like that especially from uh benzo diascan withdrawals you can actually die from it now if you're an alcoholic in jail they'll at least they treat you because they know you can die from

alcoholism, you know, and so they'll do something for you. But, and they do, they actually, they do a lot. They give them all kinds of medication and shit. I think they give them value. You imagine that. They give them value in there. I would have killed somebody for value in jail. So, I'm in jail and I'm realizing, court dates are going by too. So I'm so sick, man. I mean, I can't even, I can't exaggerate the, the, the, the, the, the, how sick I was and scared to death. Never been in jail before, for any length of time. Up until then, I think the most amount of time I'd spent in a jail is a day or two. you know overnight a couple times

a lot of times actually I think I got arrested like dude I got arrested like 15 times or something between you know between the very first time I got arrested and this last time just on a whole bunch of times they would anything I did man

anything I did they would come arrest me for it it was just ridiculous a bunch of I got arrested like six times get this for uh for I would I would be out of my yard on and off throughout this old deal and I'd go home and get an argument with my wife

even inside of just a minor argument that's nothing big and boom all the cops would just show up out of nowhere I'm like man who's who's calling the cops who even knows I'm here every time I pulled up the cops were there you know

so it happened a bunch of times so I was in and out of that jail a whole bunch of times but this last time I get stuck in there I know I'm not leaving I'm about to die from withdrawals in there it was it was so bad I uh

I knew I thought you know what I'm not I'm not leaving I got to get better somehow, and I got to do everything I can to take advantage of this, you know, at least I don't have to get up and go to work. I didn't have to go to work and I wasn't worried about paying my bills. I could at least calm down and focus on trying to get off of these drugs that I was on. That was wrecking my, that was what was steering my whole life anyways. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't get out of this roller coaster mess. And so I remember I was, you know, they let you out for insect to go take a shower and they give you like a few minutes, 15 minutes for the phone or whatever. And I thought, well, I'm going to start walking up and down the stairs trying to get a little bit, trying to get my body back. And I could barely walk up the stairs. That's how sick I was going to barely make it up to the top tier of the jail. It's only like 25 steps or something. But, I mean, I just almost had to crawl up the stairs.

I couldn't do it twice the first time, you know. So I started doing that. And I still wasn't clearheaded. It took months and months. But so all this, the whole time, I'm sick. And this is what's going on. They got me on all these charges. And they started, they assigned me.

me that lawyer again. I think I had to get rid of her first. I'm like, man, I can't have this idiot on this case. It's way too serious. So I had to figure out a way to get rid of that. Like I said, you can't just fire a lawyer, which I didn't, I didn't even know you could fire lawyers. Somebody in jail taught me that secret. I got both this felony case going on and in jail. And now my wife is, we're separated and now she wants like full custody of the kids. This is the big of jail. Yeah, and I'm in jail. L. Okay. And I had to, so I had to fight that case, fight that situation, which was more serious to me than anything else and the, in the, and the felony case at the same time. And it turned into a, I didn't want to get convicted as felony because of that, because then I would lose, I wouldn't have any say-so over my kids and stuff. And it was serious. They, they could use it against me, you know. And I was trying to get that the child K, the, the, the, the, you know, the. The custody case delayed so I could try to beat this felony, right?

And I didn't want them to settle on anything until I had the time and chance to fight the felony cases that I had. There was more than one. There was a number of them. And I'm stuck in jail. It's really difficult to fight a case from jail where they, you know, you have bond, but it's not a reasonable bond. Who can, who can, who's going to get out of jail on a $150,000 bond? a gangster i'm not a gangster you know what i mean i don't it was it was too much money i mean i think one of the time i had a i had a real high bar on one time it was like a it was quite a bit and my

sister i got a son's sister i'm really close to it and she got me out but it costs a lot of money a lot of money and this time nobody was getting me out nobody was gonna what is it a 15 grand nobody was putting up 15 grand to give me out of jail you know they knew how sick i was and they if had I not been sick and all that they probably would have you know my family they would have found a way to give me out of jail but they I think they thought it was maybe we just better leave him in there for a while till he gets better you know let him handle it himself let him dry out yeah and that's and that was good it worked it did work but so that's where I start trying to fight this case man and it's a big deal to me I didn't want to be

a felon and they're saying this you could go to jail for four years prison prison for four years if you get convicted of an aggravated burglary case what you're a criminal history, Mr. Rooklemyer, which included no felons, you know, no felon. You have a misdemeanor for this, a misdemeanor for that, you know, which if you get three misdemeanor it does equal a felony, right? But I hadn't done that. It had to be the same exact charge in Kansas anyways. If you get three misdemeanor charges for the same thing, like domestic violence, I think it has to be even against the same person. Three different times, it turns into a felony. Well, I still, I didn't even have that. I didn't have nothing. It was the only felony I had.

And this woman is telling me that they're going to put me in prison. for four years. And I was believing in it. I thought, God, that's horrible. I can't go to, oh my God, I can't go to prison for four years. And she's an idiot. I can't have her on my case. So I got, I started having to, uh, I had a finagle a way to get rid of this woman. And, uh, I had no idea how to do it. I'm like, oh, you're stuck in jail. What are you going to do? You don't really have a say so over who your lawyer is, you know, but I did learn from being in jail. Somebody told me, you know, why don't you just, uh, and a lot of it was delayed, too. I was trying to, like I said, was trying to delay the felony case so it didn't interfere with the case with my kids.

You know, I didn't want, I didn't, I didn't want them to, uh, now, if they go to court and my wife wants full custody of the kids, she's going to get it because I'm in jail. Look at this maniac. He's in jail. He can't even come see the kids. You know what I mean? So I'm losing that. If I don't win this felony situation, I'm going to lose that situation. So I'm paranoid about it. And I'm trying to delay this, that case, okay? It's as hard as I can. every, every ridiculous thing I can think of to delay this child in custody case. And I had another court point of lawyer on this one. But the problem with this guy was, I liked him a lot.

The guy was, he was, he was a drunk. I'd say his name, but I don't want to get sued for, like, ruining the guy's law practice. He was an older guy from Leverworth County. And he was a, he was a nice guy. He owns a couple liquor stores in that town. Everybody knows him. But he's drunk all the time. He was drunk in court.

You know, he would come. And I could smell booze on him. Like, oh, my God, dude. I can't believe you're, and he's like, oh, it's no big deal. It's just a, yeah, this will get you through this. Don't worry about it. I'm like, Jesus, man, okay, all right. Okay, and he was taking care of it.

He was taking care of this. I was happy with what he was doing. But he couldn't, he didn't want to delay it anymore or something. Or couldn't delay it anymore. It was getting to a point where I couldn't put it off anymore. So I thought, well, what can I do? what can I do to get this case? Well, I can fire my lawyer.

That's what I'll do. I'll find him to insult this guy and be rude to him. I like him too much, you know? But if I, if I fire him, they'll have to give me more to have to get another lawyer. But you have to have a reason to do that. They can't, you can't just, the lawyer basically has to say they can't communicate with you or they don't, or some, you know, they have to be the ones who say they don't want to work for you anymore. But you can't. They know what you're doing.

So I'm in jail, and by this time, I had, you know, you get to know the guards and stuff. There was this one woman there, and she was nice. And I didn't want to give this woman any shit, really, but in this situation, I kind of had to. So my plan was, I'm going to go to this hearing, and I'm just going to, I'm just going to raise hell in here and cause it to be delayed. I mean, I can do something to delay this case. And what I'll do is, what I was thinking was, I'll just, I'll fire my lawyer. real loud like and real obnoxious like and so the the one comes against me and shackles me up it puts me in the elevator and i kind of know her and i said boy just wait till you see

what happens the court today so-and-so it's going to be a real show in there i can't wait to get in there and talk to old dude in there and stuff and she's like but maria you you you you keep yourself under control in there i don't want to i don't want to have any problems with you in that in that courtroom i like don't worry about it it ain't going to be any big deal i'm just going to i got to get it I got to get an extension. I just, I got to get one, you know? And, man, I didn't know I was going to make this woman this nervous. She was nervous about what I was going to do in this courtroom.

So instead, so comes my time, they call my case, they open the door. She walks up, the guard stands right behind me and my lawyer. And I'm going to fire this lawyer anyways. And I was going to tell him, dude, I'm sorry, got to get ready to get, man. You got to go because I got to delay this case. I didn't even get that out of my mouth. And by the way, he was drunk too. I swear he was trying.

And he was kind of, you know what I was doing. And he was kind of chuckling about it. Well, I got up in his ear to talk to talk to him. And the lawyer, the guard was right behind me, right my face, like, sticking her face out. And I'm like, I turn and I go, do you fucking mind right in the hole? And she goes, oh, that's enough. That's enough. I'm at it.

She picks me up out of the chair, just grabs me up out of the fucking chair and starts pushing me out the door. I'm like, oh, yeah. I start arguing with her right there. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? We stopped going back and forth, bickering back and forth. I, I keep the door. I remember I kicked the door open so hard.

I had my hands behind my back, and I would just, bam, I keep the door open to get out of the courtroom. So it worked. It actually worked. They had to delay this trial now. But so they did, but I still have the same lawyer. I still have the same guy. I didn't even have time to fire the guy because this idiot officer got too shooking up about that. about what was going on i wasn't i said look i wasn't going to do anything violent i didn't mean

that that's not what i meant by saying i was going to call the problem i just meant i was going to get a little bit loud with with my lawyer not with the court or anything what are you what are you wrong with you you know well that's and she's in the elevator pushing the panic button for some reason i'm going to get some male officers down here you know she's so when they open the elevator door man And there's 1,800 cops out there come storming in there. What do you do? What do you know? Drag me out and drag me out and throw me back in the cell.

But it worked. They delayed it. Okay. So now I'm back on my felony case. I have this other idiot woman lawyer who I somehow they'd let me get rid of her. But that case was getting serious. And they assigned me another lawyer. This other guy.

And so I tell him the whole story about what's going on. And I'm telling him, listen, I can't go to you. I can't get convicted to this. here's why I have this other case going on, right? Right. And this is, so I got this, this mail lawyer on the felony cases. I can't remember his name. Didn't like him.

He listened to my case, didn't want to fight it. You know how they are. They don't want to fight the case. I still don't know why they really don't want to. I don't know if it's that they don't want to make themselves look bad by losing the case or, or they're just not really interested in doing a whole lot for you. You know what I mean? They just, this guy didn't care.

And so what happened in my, with the other my other misdemeanor cases they let me get rid of that lawyer the drunk lawyer and I got this other lawyer named John his name's John and uh he's on my case and I start noticing hey man this guy this dude's for real this guy this guy will fight this guy is a fighter you know and I get to know him you know I get I get to know him a little bit from talking to him before and after court and he'd come see me in the jail a little bit and I start begging him Hey, man, I think it would make sense if you were on these felony cases, too, because it would just be, I think you do a lot better, you know what I mean, understanding the whole, all the dynamics of this case about why I'm trying to delay that trial so I can get out of it. You know what I mean? You could understand all this. And no, he just want to do it. No, I don't want any part of that. I just, he won't even talk about it. I want to even talk about it. So, you know, he's on my other cases now, though. So that's good. I got at least got him that floor. And so I got the, I'm in jail. It's been a couple. It's been a couple. months i had this other lawyer and i tell him the whole story you won't fight so i'm like okay and now i understand

that you can get you can delay the whole thing by firing lawyers so that's my whole that's my whole strategy that's all i had at the time i'm just going to keep firing lawyers until i get out of jail somehow you know what i mean i mean that's or i mean i don't know what else i'm going to do i can't fight it from in here really you just can't do it you can't fight not not very well you know you have these these lawyers that you can't even hardly work with so The whole strategy was to get rid of these lawyers. Okay, so the one lawyer, you like the one lawyer, the other lawyer you got to get rid of. No, I had to get rid of the lawyer on the misdemeanor cases.

Just to stall that case is really, the whole strategy is to stall at all. Try to get out of jail, try to really fight it, you know, because you can't fight it from there. I can't even, I couldn't, I couldn't, I was so sick, I couldn't use the phone. I think I heard you talking about this too one time. I got to jail and I was so disoriented and so out of it. I couldn't use the phone. You have to type in your inmate number and all this. You know, it was so complicated.

I'd have somebody come help me. I mean, as ridiculous as that is, that's how I couldn't think straight. It was just, oh, man, it was a cloud. It was horrible. It was miserable. So by this time, anyways, it's been a couple months. I started getting better. I started getting better.

And I'm like, well, I pretty much already lost everything. Anyways, I don't really have anything else to lose. I don't even know what I'm going to do when I get out of jail. You know, I got to, I have nothing to lose now. Forget it. I'm fighting. I'm fighting tooth and nail. I'm not giving in an inch for anything.

And my, I was like, especially, I'm not signing anything. They kept telling me, every lawyer I had said, listen, I think if you just plead guilty to, we can, they could lower the felony charge to, like, from aggravated burglar to burglary or something like that, we can get you out of jail. We can get you out of jail the day. But you have to, you're going to be a felon. I'm like, well, no, then I'm not, why would I do that? I mean, I'm here now. I don't, you know, I don't care now. I don't care now.

I don't care now. I got all the time in the world. I'm not giving in. I'm not, I'm not signing any plea from this fucking jail cell. It's not what I'm not doing it. I mean, that's, that's blackmail. That is something wrong with the justice system. They got you in prison in jail, which is hell. And you can't, and you, they're telling you, well, you can go.

You can go home anytime. You just got to sign this piece of paper, you know, everybody, everybody in that jail. In the pod, I was, everybody knew my whole entire case. And they were all pissed off like, oh, you're an idiot. You decided, I'd be out of here in a minute. I'm like, yeah, well, I'm not you. I'm not a, I don't steal from Walmart, dude. That's not my career.

That's not what I do. I'm not a, you know what I mean? I got to, I got to go to work. And, and they might do background checks or, you know, I just don't want to be a felon. It's, I'm not guilty anyways. Right. And that was that, you know, so, no.

And I can't be a felon because they're not that's going to interrupt this whole child case. I don't want to lose my kids and lose. and lose the you know the rights to my no way dude you don't they nobody understood the complexity of this case nobody did except for john the one guy who understands the whole freaking mess and he was refusing to get on my case for god only knows why i still don't know to this day he won't tell me why and i think the reason is he just thought i was crazy you know because every time at the time when i talked to him i was crazy i was you know i was just out of it he he's just like i can't deal with this guy he yes i can't He's going to be a problem for the rest of my life.

I know these guys. He's going to be a problem. I don't like him. And he didn't like what he'd heard about me, I think, was the deal. And he knew the whole case inside and out. He was friends with my other lawyers. He knew them all. You know how they.

And this guy, he was connected. The guy's connected. He's, he's just a smooth talker. He, he doesn't even have to really talk. He knows everybody. Everybody likes him. He gets everything he wants. Everybody who has him knows the lawyer, they leave jail.

They don't stay in there. You know what I mean? He gets, he's serious about it. He doesn't want you in jail if he's, if you're his client, he doesn't want you in jail. I'm like, I mean, I've got to have this idiot on my, I got to have him on my, on this phone case. And I'm begging him and he just, he starts making up reasons why he can't do it. I don't know what his problem was. I don't know why, but I mean, it didn't seem like he didn't like me.

So anyways, but right now I have this problem with this other lawyer that they got. This guy, he, he, he's just an arrogant, just a jerk. I didn't like him. He was a, it was a, it was a, he used to be a cop. And he just didn't see any reason to fight the case. He just wasn't going to do it, basically. I'm not, I'm not, you know, it's just not going to do it. He's not going to go do any homework about it or even try.

So I'm, okay, this guy's got to go. But that's difficult because he doesn't want to go, really. And he's not going to give up. He'd say, it's like a personal thing of them that I was trying to fire him. Like, you're not going to fire me. You know, I'll show you, I'm the lawyer here, you know. So anyway, I'm still on bond, this stupid high bond. And I start trying to fire that lawyer.

And the judge, and now remember by this time, my wife is involved. This is a small community. My wife's involved. He has a couple of her own lawyers, you know, and they're public defenders. So I'm connected to that, a couple of, you know, I can't have the same lawyer she does. And she has a public defender. How many public defenders are there? There can't be very many.

So I start plotting. I think, well, this fire mall until I get to John. have to give me this lawyer they have to they have to they don't have any choice what are they going to do we're thinking do not give me a lawyer right so i i think this is brilliant oh this is a great idea this is going to work once i got that guy on my case i'm out i'm out of here and uh i just knew it i just i just i could tell i knew he wouldn't he wouldn't be able to he's he wouldn't let me sit in jail anymore been it been too long so anyway this guy this lawyer that was a real problem i can't i can't shake this idiot off my case so the first thing i did was i started

tell my sister knows this whole story i'm talking to her from jail And she is, by this time, sick of me being in jail. I've been in jail for a long time. And she goes way out on the limb and hires this big wig, fancy law firm. I can't remember the name of this, but it was a high dollar law. This, it was a big deal. I couldn't believe it. I'm like, damn.

One day they come to the, they come to my jail, my pot, and they got me. They say, hey, somebody's here to see you. And I'm walking down there and you can, I could see where the lawyers are, stuff and where they let you meet with them. And I've seen this woman, woman lawyer, standing. this really nice suit. She's real tall. And I'm like, who is this? And I walk in there and she's all real professional. Mr. Riggumire, I'm so-and-so from such a such law firm and your family has hired me to defend you in this case. I'm like, oh, really nice. All right. Now,

now let's get down the business. So I got, I don't even need a public different anymore. I got this kick-ass lady from this law firm who's going to go out of her way. And, you know, just like they say, if you got your own law, if you got your own law, if you got a your money to hire your own or you'll get out of it you know what i mean well so i spent hours talking to this one hours plotting this case like all my ideas about how it could be you know what i mean and she's she listens to all of it and i say hey do you know by the way did do you know these people i mean i i always think this it would be a little bit dangerous to hire somebody outside of their circle you know outside of the circle they don't like that stuff lawyers coming in from the outside think

their hot shots coming into their courtrooms and telling them what to do you know i thought that was kind of like man i don't know that might be a little bit dangerous and she says she starts telling me that oh oh the first thing she says say let me ask you uh who's on your who's on your misdemeanor cases who's your lawyer on that i'm like john brian she goes oh oh yeah that's good that'll work out he'll he'll fix that i'm like yeah i know i know i tried to get him on this case but he won't do it little than i know i could have just hired him I didn't know you could hire the guy. I thought he was a public defender.

I had no idea. Okay? I had no idea I could just hire the guy. So this one, I talked to her for hours, Plutton this case. And it comes time to go to court. And I said,

I tell her, I said, listen, the first thing we're going to do is let's get this bond reduced down to a reasonable bond and it's getting out of jail. It's just, let's just try to get it.

I didn't say, get me out of jail. I said, just let's get the bond cut in half. It's $150,000. And I know that he's, the last time I was in court, he was.

I asked for bond Because my lawyer wouldn't do it But man I said Your Honor there is I want to ask about bond He goes yeah How long have you been in there anyways And he's looking at his paper

And I'm like I've been in here for six months He goes Wow Six months I said yeah And he goes Okay

Okay I'm gonna I'm gonna say I'm gonna say a bond hearing I'm like yes good This is good He knows I've been in there a long time He's loosening up This guy's, you know, I'm going to get a bond reduction.

They hadn't given me one, not one in this entire length of time. I've been in jail now for six months, dude, six months, which is a long time, which is about to surpass the amount of time that I would really have to do if I were convicted. You know what I mean? Now, they're saying you're going to do four years in prison, but the truth is it would be a miracle if you got it here. I think a year in prison, right? That's ridiculous. First time, they're not going to sit.

And the guy lawyer did say that. He said, listen, dude, what are you so worried about? I said, I don't want to go to prison. He goes, man, you ain't going to, they're not going to put you in prison, man. Now, I said, that's not how they're acting. They're acting. They're acting. Like, they want me to go to prison.

He goes, listen, I've been in this, I've been doing business in this courtroom for, I know that judge. He's not, you're not going to put him in prison. I was like, really? Because I, you know, I still don't want to be a felon. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care if they let me out today. I'm not going.

I'm not leaving until I'm not a felon, you know. So anyways, he goes away and this woman lawyer comes in and we start strategizing. And then she asked me what to do in court. This actually happened to me. I said, okay, listen, just all I want to do is get a bond reduction. Please get me out of this jail. I've been here for six months. Get me out of the show.

And she looks at me straight in the face and says, I'm not, I'm not going to do that. I said, what? You're not going to do what? I'm not going to embarrass me. myself by asking for bond in this case i'm like embarrass yourself by asking for bond that's your fucking job what are you talking about what are you talking about now what you're not going to ask for why would you do that you know and so so the session ends and i go back to my cell i'm like man this is weird why why why would she not ask for bond i mean that that's her job to get she's again

trying to get me to take a plea and this is what she's telling me now listen i know some of these people and I know I can get you a really good deal. I can get you out of jail and you won't go to prison and all you have to do, all you have to do is a degree to five years of probation. And I'm like, and I'm going to be a felon for the rest of my life. I mean, there's no getting rid of that. Right. Yeah. But listen, it's no big deal. It's just it's five years. I'm like, yeah, it's a big deal. It's a big deal to me. Yeah. So the next day we had court. And I'm like, I got to get rid of it. I got to get rid of this one.

Now, this is a real issue now because my sister paid a ton of money. This is no joke of a lawyer. This is what when it was a big firm. It cost a lot of money. I don't know exactly how much I never gave. I think it was like $10,000 or something ridiculous. It's a lot of money. Yeah.

For one for state charge. Yeah. Yeah. And, well, the money, first of all, could have been used for my bond. My sister weren't going to do that. But she was connected to. this firm because she had her son had been in a bunch of trouble and they they beat in a bunch of the cases right well for some reason this woman won't do it we go to court the next day and i thought

i got to get rid of her right now before there's any more money spent on this idiot and uh she's gonna destroy me she's gonna rich she's not she's not willing to fight him i'm not i'm not i'm not doing it so we go to court and the judge says man it they actually called a special session it was like out of the blue it wasn't a scheduled court date it was like once i had her they had a they had a special hearing like the two days after i got this lawyer or something just all of a sudden it was like after hours they called me up there with my lawyer and and the prosecutor and everything and uh they think they got a deal they this woman really thinks that she's got me talked into this deal or something i don't know well i knew i had to get rid of her and so as soon as i walked in

the courtroom i and they start talking i'm like wait a minute just everything stop i don't there's no point in me even be in this courtroom because this woman doesn't represent me and and they're They're like, what? What are you talking about? What are you talking about? And I said, no way. I'm not, I'm not going to, I'm not, she doesn't represent me. And the judge, by this time, he knows, the guy knows me.

I've seen him a hundred times. He's, he's pissed. And he actually says, okay, what exactly is the problem? I said, I'll tell you, I'll tell you exactly what the problem is she, I talked to her for hours and she agreed to do something that she's now unwilling to do. And he's like, long story. already said, well, you can't tell your lawyer how to defend you in court. I was like, what? I didn't believe it. I didn't believe that that was the case. It is the case that you can. Right. Right. Well, I'm like, okay. Well, I don't have to, I, what I can do is not pay her.

I'm not going to, no, he's going to pay her anymore. I'm not, she's not going to come in this form and have her. I can fire her. I don't care. Yes, I can. I can decide, but no, she's not going to get paid anymore. She's not my lawyer. Forget it. And he goes, Mr. Bicklema, I'm going to step out for 10 minutes. And I'm going to let you work this out. You two work this out. And I'm going to come back in. We're going to get this all straight. I'm like, don't even bother. Don't even bother. I'm not, I'm not doing it. And man, they all threw up their hands. Oh, forget it, man, whatever, you know. And she just, this woman couldn't believe either. And I remember I get up and I go and I'm like, oh, my God, how am I going to explain this to my sister? My sister has no real

clue what's going on but she just dumped the boatload of money on this lawyer and I remember I had I'm like oh my God I better tell her I got to tell her before she tells her the lawyer tells her yeah she's gonna make it much worse yes and she did of course I wasn't fast enough

by the time I'll never forget my sister going you fucking fired that lady I said yeah but listen listen to what she did I don't want to hear it I don't want to fucking hear it drink you know no that's it everybody's done with me now.

They're just disgusted that that, but the truth was, look, she really did do that. She wasn't going to ask her bond, nothing. And so, oh, the lawyer before I left court, he goes, he goes, okay, all right, you want to, you want to fire her? That's, that's right. You can. You can not pay her, and that's what you can do. But I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you back so-and-so. This lawyer and I said, yeah, I don't think he's going to do it. I don't think he's going to do it. he goes yeah the judge i wish i had the transcripts i tried to get him he goes yeah well we'll see about that mr bicklemyer we'll see about that and i said i guess we will i guess we will he he goes we'll be back here and he's like going to spank me he gives me another month we'll be back here in another month or whatever so oops i got to get now i really got to get rid of the i can't have him and he's got to be the last one on the list who else is the old man this is the

old man right no no no old drunk the drunk guy the drunk guy's already gone john's on those cases okay those are the misdemeanor cases these are the felony situations and uh this guy was uh he was he was a little bit older than me but he wasn't he was no he was not incompetent the guy was you could tell he could be a good lawyer if you wanted to me you know what i mean but he just i wasn't willing to i don't know why they he wasn't willing to do it but it didn't matter he he might have been okay but by this time i had in my head that i had to have john on these cases because he's the only one i understood the whole the whole situation and um the judge knew it too The judge knew, I think he might even said, I know, I know what you're trying to do.

I'm not an idiot. I've been around for a long time. I know, I can see what you're trying to do. And I'm not going to do it. I'm going to give you so-and-so back. And I said, well, he's not going to do it. He's not, I promise you, he won't take the case. Oh, we'll see about that.

And so I didn't know, but I had an idea what I was going to do about this other lawyer. I'm like, I think what I'll do is, I'll just write in this real obnoxiously rude letter and is obnoxious and rude. and just talk a bunch of crazy shit in a letter and send it to the guy. And I did it, and it worked, it worked, man. So the guy gets this letter and he's so insulted by everything I said, he decides he doesn't want to take the case he's sick of me anyway.

And so a month goes by, we come back. This is when it's kind of funny. We go back into court, and it was a scheduled court date. But I knew the, I knew this stuff I sat at my head. I was pretty sure he wasn't after that letter I wrote that he would represent. me anymore and i knew the judge would be pissed i knew he was going to be madder than hell and it happened and i thought well they might be able to do something but odds are they're just going to give in it's been so long they're going to give in me john or they won't they won't maybe they won't

have a choice you know and i walked in the courtroom you know you're all shackled up now i walked in the courtroom and i looked over and there was old john sitting there in the chair uh like this with this head between his hands like oh my god he was so mad and pissed about that this what was going on in the situation and i swear he was crying i was crying about it like and then i was laughing i'm like oh yes i know it worked why would he be in this courtroom if this didn't work and i sit down and the and the judge he leans back and he says oh mr bicklemyer last time we were in court uh you told me that that uh you fired your lawyer you fired your paid lawyer and uh and i'm going to give you i tried to give you back so and so and you told me i couldn't do that you told me that he wouldn't do it

And there wasn't nothing I could do about it. And he said, and you're right. There wasn't. You win. And I know what you're doing. I know that you want John on this case. And, yeah, my hands are tied now. You got it.

I'm going to give you, John. He's not, now he's your lawyer on your, on these felony charges. And he goes, there's only one problem. We got a little problem. And I was like, oh, what is it? What could the problem be? And he says, John can't do it until May. this is like dude it's like four or five months later i can't remember when this was a long time

four months later from so i think back you'll by that point you'll have been in prison for a year almost a year i would have been in print i'd have been in print yes by that time it would have been a year it it was uh i got arrested on june 23rd or something and by this time yeah if the time would have went by that he tried to set aside i would have been in there a year right so he He thought he got me on now, the judge thought, boy, that you think you're smart, but John has a problem, I can't do it until May. And I turned around and looked at him. He's over there, you know, and I said, that's okay. That's okay.

I'll wait. And by this time, I'm feeling good. I'm getting better anymore. I really don't care. And, man, I'm not kidding. It wasn't, listen, he, he, I looked over at him, and he's, oh, he's mad at me for what I did anyways. And he looks up and he goes, he goes, oh, come. or call me or whatever you know so i'm laughing at him on the way out of the courtroom and i went

downstairs and the first thing i did was call him and uh he said yeah i know uh-huh yeah i'll be up there to see i'll come up to see we'll talk don't talk about it on the phone i'll talk to you in the jail i said when can you be here you know the judge said you couldn't do it and he goes i don't know i can do it i can do it i can't like oh you can get on the case right now yes yeah i can't i said okay cool man i'll see you i knew i don't know what they were trying to do i think they maybe they told john hey man we're gonna give it but don't take it till may or something you know do some scheduling stuff yeah there's no hurry but he was to him but now now he's my lawyer on this case and for whatever reason he really does care he does care that i'm in jail and he's my lawyer so he comes

to see me in the jail and dude i thought he was on zanx or he you know you're talking through the glass on him fucking silly phones i i i come down i was excited this time i knew what the call was about they're like they call you to come down you got to visit and come down he's not even in the lawyer room where they you know where you can actually talk to your lawyer and have contact with you if you wanted to they usually put you in a little room well he was in the glass because i think because somebody else is in that room so i walk all the way to the end and i there he is sitting there like this like just just not excited at all about this case and uh he i pick up the phone i'm like hey dude

what's going on hey how's it going i mean he's like yeah all right all right you know here's what here's what i want to do is what he says he says listen i don't know what you want me to do i don't know what what you think i can do on this guy i know the old guy i know everything about i just don't think i don't think i don't think i can do and he goes but i'll do whatever you want me to do you tell me what you want me to do and i'll do it but listen if you go to prison that's on you that's your own that's your problem and i said listen i'll go to prison. I don't care. We're fighting it all the way. I don't. I do. And by this time, I really didn't care. I was starting to feel better. And I'm like, hey, man, I got nothing to lose. I don't

really care. It's only, it's only a couple years. What's the difference between now and a couple years from now. If something happened, then I really did go to prison. You've already done, you'll already done like, what? Eight months at this point. I mean, eight months at this point, okay? At the time this whole thing goes through, it'll be almost a year. I mean, you'll have a fucking year on in on what a stupid fucking burglary charge that that's probably going to give you time served yes right so he says okay I think he even told me it was at that time he goes he goes you know that you know who I am and and and I'll do what I can and I say yeah I know I know you well and and you

understand the whole dynamic of this whole thing he goes all right well what do you want me to do what do you want me to do smart ass you know there's what you know there's way is acting toward me. I said, well, here, okay, here's all I want you to do. All I want you to do, man, is ask for a bail reduction. He goes, okay, all right, I'll do it. And I said, can you get me a bail hearing? Yeah, I can get a bail hearing. I said, okay, well, listen, I tell him the whole story about the last time. I'm like, listen, man, I was in court. And this is what the dude said. He goes, yeah, you know, he's like, I don't think he is too happy with you. You know, so I don't know. I said, man, come on. Just get me the hearing. That's all I want you to do, really.

is to try i want somebody to fucking try get me out of jail you bastards and uh dude it was like two days later man two days later i'm on the docket all of a sudden two days dude two or three days later and i've been in this jail for eight months thinking i'm never getting out by this time and i didn't even care but i get john on the case like i've been thinking the whole time i'll be out of here a couple days go by and he's got me on the docket again for a hearing already it's been only been a couple days maybe the next day i mean it was fast bam and uh they call you down there and and you're with everybody else. And they put you in this little room

where there's a window where you can talk to your lawyer. And remember, he's a public defender now. And even at this son, you know, he's a public defender for a bunch of people in jail. And I found out later he runs his own private practice. I didn't know that was the case or else I would have just hired him. Now, he knows that I hired that woman too.

And he knows I fired her. And I think he knows why too. And come to find out, I'll tell you later. So anyway, I go down there and I go down there. I see him in the other room and he's like, come on in. And so the guards let me in that room and I said in it. And he goes, he goes, dude, you're not going to fucking believe this. And I go, oh, I bet I'm going to believe it.

I bet I'm going to believe it. He goes, he goes, they're going to fucking let you out of here. And I said, oh, yeah, we're. He's like, today, you're right now. I said, no shit. What did you do? He goes, well, here's the deal. You got it.

He goes, they're mad because they think you won't. loosen up a little bit that you're just going to make a big mockery out of this whole you know it's going to be a mess they're just they're just worried that you're just it's just going to be a big problem and i said what like what like i want to go to trial or whatever that was i mean you know what what's the big deal you just got to show you know i mean isn't there something i mean like i said what do you want he goes can you can you can you plead guilty to one of the misdemeanor charges i said okay what misdemeanor charge he goes i got telephone harassment and you take a telephone harassment charge

I'm like sold man sold give me the fucking paper he goes okay all right I'll see you when you get out what were the what were they basing the telephone harassment on nothing it was just they just made it up because all the other misdemeanor charges like there was some

breaking restrain orders oh no there was some telephone harassment on my fire calling calling my in-laws when I was out bitching and screaming and calling people just being an idiot just being an idiot just being an idiot okay wasn't it a charge i don't know but they made it into a charge which whatever dude i don't care and so he's i think what he did was he goes listen let's just close out all this other misdemeanor stuff

plead guilty of this telephone harassment just like a no insurance ticket he said it's no big deal it's nothing i'm like oh what's the punishment you're not felony no it's it's a misdemeanor he goes i don't even think it came with any probation yeah it did actually but it was only like six months. I'm like six months probation too. I've done deal. You know, he goes, all right. And he goes, what are we going to do after that? And I said, oh, no, let's just not worry about. And I kind of told him anyways. I'm like, my little strategy. And he goes, okay, you know, he's like, whatever, it's your life, you know. Everybody, I said, I'm going to go to prison, do the time, whatever. I'm not, not giving up. I'm not, I'm going to bite this all the way to tooth and now. He's like,

yeah, I've heard that a thousand times. You know what I mean? That's what everybody says in until it comes right now to it. And then they're going to sign anything. I'm like, that's not going to happen, dude. I'm telling you right now. I'm not doing that. So, you know, you're going to have to fight. He's like, I will.

I'll do. I don't care. I'll go to trial. I like trial. I don't care. He's been a prosecutor in this town, everything. You know, he didn't care. He was scared of it at all.

I think he wanted to do it. Probably, probably just see me put, put it or something. Anyway, he gets me out of jail, man. That day, I go down there and they're like, they drop the bond from $150,000 to nothing, to nothing. Zero. Sign your name here. And all they said in the trial was, the judge was like a whole new person. He says, you know, Mr. McGuire, you've been in there for a long time.

This is true, too. He said, and I've been a judge for a long time. And I know that I can tell, I can see drug acts when I, and I know when I see them. And it usually takes about five months for him to start really coming around, you know, coming around and getting their head on their shoulders or whatever. And it's been six months. And I can see that, you know, you seem a lot better and a lot. I'm just going to let you go.

I just couldn't believe it. $150,000 or nothing. Okay, out. And so, man, they, they, I'm like, I can't believe it. I'm like, oh, my God, they're going to let me go. I still have the felony charges now, remember. And I go down and never tell people in jail you're going home either. They're idiots.

People are so, they're so jealous and, you know, I went down at the pot. I'm like, dude, I got a fucking bond. And some of the, you know, the idiots and are, oh, yeah, you rat it on somebody. I'm like, rat it on him. there's no you rat on in my case there's no there's no you know what I mean you know the people in jail man yeah digging through your I got a subpoena what while I was in jail and some people in the power like oh look big of myers names on a subpoena I'm like I can't help it if I got subpoena in jail I'm gonna rat it you know what am I gonna do it's they

they split a subpoena on my door at 3 a.m you know I can't do anything about that so anyway they you know they're being idiots in the jail about me getting that they're just jealous that I got out but It's, it's, it was in March. It was on March the 3rd. Man, I'll never forget that. So, and it, I'm like, I wonder what it's like outside because nobody knows. I'm leaving this jail.

The only person that even cared that I was in jail was my sister, my older sister, Amy. She was, you know, she was putting money on my books and on my telephone, you know, and I had some money. But what happened was, if you remember, I got fired from my job right before I went to jail. It's like two days before that. And I told her, hey, go, go to my job and get my last paycheck. stuff, you know. It was, it was a, they owed me a couple thousand dollars or something. And, uh, and she, she went and got it. They gave it to her. They, they were concerned. They were like, is he okay? What's going on? You know, they were. And, uh, they gave her the check. And they even let her,

I never even signed it. Somehow she cashed the check. I think they wrote it to her. Actually, they wrote the check to my sister or something. And, uh, she took the check. She might have just signed. She could have probably just endorsed your name on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put it put in her, it was a small check. Yeah. Anyway, so that's how I had money the whole time. But it ran out, of course, because I was talking on the phone. But she was putting money on her and my mom and um so but nobody knows i'm getting out of jail nobody expects me to be getting out of jail i didn't expect really expect it i i knew that once john was on this case uh that that things would start working there you working out you know and that's what i mean

what i was saying about public defenders every time i watch your show people are always bashing and i'm like well they're not all like that and this guy's one of them and he was proud of it too he would say you know i'm not like i i'll actually do i'm not like all the other public defenders i'm like Yeah, I know. I know. I know all these people in jail that have had you all these cases. I know who you are. That's why I'm, you know, that's why I wanted you on the case. So he gets me out of jail. But they kick you out with nothing. I had just some shoes, some blue jeans and a shirt. And that's it, man. A bag of, you know, I gave everything away. I was going to keep my jail clothes. I give all the, everything I had I gave to the people in the pod that I liked, like my cellie or whatever, which was a bunch of, you know, notebooks. You know, you gather some stuff in jail after eight months. And they all want it. They'll fight over a bowl or a cup. And I gave all that step away.

So I left with nothing like a little bag of something. I was leaving the court, leaving the jail. And there was a lady leaving at the exact same time. They literally let us out of jail at the exact same time. They didn't open the door once, closed it, and then let her out. They let us out at the same time. They went the door, let her out. And I've never seen, met this one before in my life.

Never seen her, heard of her nothing. And, and we're, they let you out of jail and the instructions where, listen, go talk. Now, now I was on probation from the, for the misdemeanor, uh, terroristic phone call or whatever, whatever the case was. So I had to say, okay, we're going to let you out of jail, but you're, you're on bond release, basically. It was the signature bond, but you're, you're on bond release is what they call it. So it's basically super supervised probation. I had to go back every week. and on Wednesday

and take a drug test at drug and alcohol tests this time I wasn't worried about I wasn't on drugs anymore I wasn't and I wasn't planning on it either I'm like and that's it for that I'm down I feel better I'm you know

oh man what a relief I felt great I never felt better in my life I remember when I was leaving I thought how am I gonna get home how am I gonna get back to my house I'm like I don't care I'll walk I don't care

I mean it's like what tell 30 miles it's not that far 15 miles not even 50 probably I could have walked home and that's when I was in I'm like, I'll just walk home. I'll just hit attack home.

I'll get back to, you know. And so I get out and they let me out with this woman. And she starts, she asks me, oh, wow, how long have you been in jail? I'm like, man, I was in there for eight months. Wow, that's a long time. How are you going to get home? I'm like, I don't know. She goes, what do you need anything?

He wants some cigarettes or something? I was like, I don't. I don't. I don't. I'm not going to smoke. I'm not going to smoke. And she goes, oh, do you need a ride? I'm like, yeah, I do.

I need a ride to a phone. Can you give me a ride to the, like a down to the Walmart or something so I can just use the telephone? Sure. You know, and she goes, I got to go see my probation officer. Me too. That's where I'm going. So we get in the probation office and we're just talking, simply talking about our plans after we have to look, she's going to take me down to the dollar store of Walmart and the probation, the head of the probation officer, here's this whole thing going on. And a condition of the bonds that you don't talk to any other felons or have.

anything to do with him you right right but she's this woman's a felon and i'm in the probation officer with talking to her and they she starts trying to get me a rearrested right there for talking to this lady she's throwing it fit this woman is throwing a fucking fit in a probation office and i'm like what the fuck is going on what's going what are you talking about i've been in jail for eight months what are you talking about she said who's your probation officer i was like Laura i knew her real well and she goes she runs and goes gets her and tells her the whole story like rats me out he's out talking to felons. I'm like,

what, I can't do. She has to go to the probation office too. There's nothing I can do about it. And so I'm in the middle of an argument. Right after I get out of jail, I'm in the middle of the giant argument. And my sister walks in the door. I haven't even been out of jail for 45 minutes.

My sister walks in the door. I'm like, hey, what's going on? Damn. You know? And she goes, what's going on here? I said, nothing, nothing. You know, I'm just, and I'm like, hold on.

Let me talk to Laura. So I talked to my probation office. I'm like, man, listen, I told her the whole story. She goes, who cares? What's the big deal? What's the problem? I said, I don't know. It's not my problem.

It's just a woman's your boss's problem. And so she goes, don't worry about it. Just don't talk to each other. You're not supposed to talk to you. You got a ride. I'm like, okay, see it. You know? But my sister's mad.

She thinks that I'm still, I hadn't learned anything. I hadn't learned anything. I haven't learned enough. I'd get out in an argument with my probation officer, you know? So she's mad doesn't talk to me all the way home, takes me home, drops me off at my house. mom's house but i'm happy i'm like god oh man i'm out of jail i had all these plans you know when you you got eight months to think about what you're going to do mean what am i going to do when i

get out of jail and i i did think i think what i'm going to do i think what i better do when i get out of jail is uh not do anything i don't think i'm going to talk to anybody or contact anybody or i think i'm just get my head together take a month or so you know exercise and and you know get my shit straight forgot what i'm going to do and i so i did that i didn't tell you that last So I waited a month, I think. I was like, I'm going to give it a month, you know, before I really do anything. I don't really care. I wasn't, but it changes the whole way you think once you've been to jail.

You know how it is, especially you. You're not as afraid anymore of what you were afraid of before. You know what I mean? You already lost everything. There's no way to go any further down. Who cares? I mean, it was a, in a way, it was a good experience. I learned a lot from them.

And it wasn't, the whole time in jail wasn't exactly miserable. Like, it was horrible at first, but. By the end, I'm laughing and playing chess and, you know, having, having, it wasn't that. I had some great times in jail. It was, it was few and far between, but it was fun at times, you know, especially when the par would get full of fun people and we're playing chess every day all day long. And it wasn't that bad. By the end, you know, I wasn't sick anymore.

So anyways, I get out and I decide I'm not going to do anything for a month, but I still got to fight this f in case. I got to get back up off the court every week. And that went off for a long time. So I'm in the middle of case, and my lawyer eventually contacts me. Hey, man, what are we going to do about this case? And I'm like, well, I think by this, the misdemeanor stuff was all done. Well, that's all done.

So I don't have to worry about that anymore. But he goes, what are we going to do about the felonies? What, what's your idea? What do you think? And I said, let's just, how much, can you get me? I just need some more time. Let's, let me. And he says, well, how much more time?

It's been a long time. It's already been, it's already been almost a year since you were in the over and almost. You all know how much more time I can get you. I'm like, yes, you can. you can do it you can do anything man and he says uh okay i know i can get it i know i can get a couple more extension i'm like man let's just drag it out

let's just see how long we can drag it out i mean it could be years we could drag it out for years right he's like eh he is you know not for years but you know a year's plenty but dude he did he kept getting extension after extension after extension and he's like what's it going to what's it going to matter why do you and I'm like I don't know me you know everybody

calms down the witnesses is the main thing everybody calms down everybody's not so mad anymore they're not so excited about being witnesses after they see that I'm not insane anymore you know what I mean and they they're going to want me they're going to change their mind about this you know about pursuing this case because it really did depend on the witnesses the witnesses absolutely right yes and I'm related to the witnesses and this eight months had gone by they don't want to go to court and deal with this BS, you know what I mean? They just don't want to do it. And so I'm telling him this.

And he's like, yeah, I say, can you, can you, is it ethical for you to get a hold of him for you to talk to him? And I think he said he could, but he didn't know if it was a good idea or something. I'm like, why don't you just fill it out? See what they're going to, you know, see how they feel about this. And I don't know if he did or not, but he kept extending it, right? Well, he just kept extending it and extending it. And, you know, months and months go by. I remember I was work.

I was all back to normal working. Everything was fine. And now I'm really scared to get the felony now. It was even worse. I really didn't want the felony bad. And he finally calls me one day and he says, hey, man, I've been thinking about that case. And, you know, I listen to all your jail calls. You know, for the, that piece of their evidence was all my jail phone calls.

Let me just put it that way. I was talking to somebody and they thought they didn't need the witnesses anymore. They were going to use the jail calls. That was their main piece of evidence. That was that, that they had. Even if the witnesses weren't there, the jail phone calls were going to get me convicted of it. And so he was trying to find a way around that. And he calls me and he says, I think I found a way around that one.

He said, there's like 80 people on your phone. Did you know that? And I said, well, yeah, I didn't know it. I've been selling my phone time for soups and whatever. You know how you do in jail? They want to talk on the phone and you give them a soup or they give you a soup or they give you a soup or whatever they got and you give them a few minutes they can call her. wife or girlfriend or whatever so there's a bunch of people on the phone bunch of people and he goes i don't think they're gonna i was i don't know if everybody understand you you only get like

how many minutes do you get in there 300 what total yeah per month oh no there was no there was it was it was limited unlimited it was how much you can afford oh yeah you can talk to her yeah you can talk as much you want it's but it was expensive you know it's like 50 cents a minute or some some ridiculous amount of money i think i spent a thousand dollars on the phone and only eight months you know like i said i know it's like a thousand bucks so uh you know it's more when you're in jail it's more important it's all on the phone than it is to eat really you know right so there's all these people using your phone yes all these people using my phone and he says i don't think they're gonna want to go through all the trouble to to figure out who's you i think i can throw up uh kick up some dust about that and he didn't say he thought he could beat the case with that he said i think i can get extensions based on that because if they have to go back and uh and try to figure out who's you who's who on the phone i know it's going to take them a long time and i know it's expensive or whatever and i know that we can drag this out for quite a while based on that i'm like man that's fantastic dude that's good that's a great idea man do that you know

he says okay i'll do it and then he does it and man i don't even think a month went by and he calls you back he goes oh man listen to this they're gonna they're gonna he filed a motion about them phone calls or something he goes they're they're just done with the whole thing they just they're sick of it they're they're they're ready to i got you a uh uh i think i had to plead guilty to another misdemeanor charge or something maybe not though i can't remember they might have dropped it just outright dropped it but uh they did they dropped all the felony all the felony stuff down to less than at least a misdemeanor the only thing i know that i've been convicted of for real is the worst thing i've ever been convicted of is telephone harassment

that's the worst thing on the on the things i i think they just out right dropped the whole entire thing they just said forget it and but i was still on probation for a while after that so i'm not sure uh how you know but it did he did get it dropped you know what i mean and uh so that's what i mean by not all lawyers are like that this guy would say uh he he was going to get me out of i knew i wasn't going to go to prison once i got the guy on my case you know nobody's going to prison with him on their case it didn't seem like it now he he i'm sure people have but he's beaten some major cases, you know, the guy's really a good guy. He knows right outside of town. He's got a wife for kids and his wife's a prosecutor. And he's just worried about his reputation.

I think maybe because he had his own practice too. You know, since he has his own practice, he doesn't want to look like he's winning cases, I suppose. That's why he did it. You know, but he did. He worked as hard as he could and he beat him all. So that's why I get so irritated about the people saying that about it. And there are other people on cases that, other people that i've heard of like that i had another guy that was uh i got a uh traffic ticket in this town i live in and uh i didn't want to pay it and i was mad about the ticket and it'd been it'd been a long time and i mean a long time i didn't fight this case this stupid ticket case i just didn't want to pay it so i keep going back and i keep fighting fighting and this judge goes that's it i've had it you're

going to jail and i was like oh uh-oh i didn't think that was going to happen and he and he says Couldn't sense me to joke because I didn't have a lawyer. And he's like, you know, so he had to appoint me a lawyer. He's like, I'm going to, what I'm going to do is I'm going to appoint you a lawyer, and then I'm going to put you in jail. I'm like, okay, well, that'll give me at least 30 days or whatever. It's like, you know, then I'll straighten it out. What I'll do is I'll just, I'll get the other lawyer, wait until the last minute and pay the fines.

I'm not going to jail or a stupid traffic ticket, but so the, I call the lawyer on this case, and he goes, he goes, he called me. He called me on the phone. And he goes, he goes, Mr. Briclemyer, what the hell's going on out there? And I said, what are you talking about? You know, he tells me his name. And he goes, he goes, what's going on? This judge call him he's all pissed off about.

And I said, yeah, fuck him. And he goes, he goes, yeah, fuck him. You ain't going to jail over shit. Fuck that guy. Who does he think he is? He's going off the back, you know what I mean? His name was Sanchez. I think it was his last name, Sanchez.

And I said, yeah, that's right. And he goes, he goes, you ain't going to jail. And you ain't paying them fines either. They don't have any evidence. It's probably, well, right, you know. So I go back to court with that guy. and he starts kicking up dust about this case and I'm laughing because he can't

by this time the judge can't put me in jail for something that he'd come up with you know and we're fighting this case it went on for years of traffic ticket case man it was like four or five traffic tickets so it went on for a year or two a long time and right in the middle of us fighting this stupid tragedy case the guy died

the guy just your lawyer died yes my lawyer died and I'm like oh my god now what you know now what am I going to do he was he was a fighter too man this guy was willing to sacrifice his own life man he was trying to jump in front of bolts for him you do it over a traffic ticket he hated the judge he was going off about how bad he hated this judge and so but he died so he's the last he was one of the last ones you know all the other ones were in the one i hired now listen to this

story about that so here's what happened with that the woman okay come to find out john when he found out that i hired that woman that's when he kind of i knew that that it kind of motivated him he he was sort of in the I think he was offended by that or not offended but like oh man you should have gave me that money I could have you know and he goes

and he said and I know her really well it was his boss it was his old boss or I think he was either his boss or he was her boss when he was a prosecutor and he knew her real well and did not like her and didn't like the law firm that she worked for

sorry about that he didn't like them for whatever reason he he in and the the law firm when i got you all i think i told you i called him and told him what the case what was happening i talked to her boss and he said what's going you know what's go he was interested he was like what's going on what are you so upset about what happened in that case i said i he listened the whole thing it took like two hours too i explained it to him and he goes he said wow that's that's that's really something that um who's your lawyer and i said john bryant and he goes he goes oh well that's good that's good that that happened and i said yeah it's really good it is isn't it why couldn't why did your your lawyer come in there not do that he's like you know i really don't

know but but here's here's what i do know she was there to get you out of jail and she was there to uh uh not get you convicted of a felony and i said yeah well that's not what she did she did not do that and and and um she certainly she she wouldn't even ask her bond i told him the whole story and he goes he said yeah well if it's if you can beat that case if john beats that case and and you come out of it without a felony i'll give you your money back i said well okay it's not my money anyway you have to give it back to my sister but yeah that's a deal you know because i think he is going to beat the case for one i just i think he can and i certainly know this he got me out of jail in three days okay and this idiot couldn't get me out of jail we paid all that

my sister paid all that money to this woman who couldn't get me out of jail we wouldn't even try wouldn't even ask her bond he didn't believe it. Her boss didn't believe that. She did that. And, and my sister told me that when she hired, you know, after I get out of job, start finding out the whole story. And she said, yeah, when I hired, when I called that law firm, they said, hey, we got just the person for that case. She used to be a prosecutor in that county. She knows everybody in that county. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She can do anything, you know. And it turns out, I think really what happened was that she was very connected to that county. She knew John. John had heard work together or something. Like I said, she was his boss or he was her boss. And I think the prosecutor, I think she talked to this lawyer and was like, no, I don't think you understand this case.

He's an asshole and all this. And we're not, we're not, I don't think you should let him do this. I think she told, I think they just, you know, I think that the prosecutor talked her out of it. But I think, I think that's what I think they made a personal agreement. And I also think, no, I have. my sister this later i said did you do that did you i think maybe when she hired this lawyer she might have said something like this listen here's the case my brother's in jail and uh he he's facing a felony he doesn't want to take it but i think i just want him out of jail just get him out of jail

he's better now you know he sounds better just let's just get him out of jail do whatever he can't she might have said that you know what i mean so so it's maybe not fair to come down on this one that hard because maybe that's what but she uh maybe my sister hired her but yeah maybe and But she works for me. And I have that argument with the woman personally. I said, she might have hired you and she might have said something or whatever she said. But the fact is you work, you do work for me. You know, she's not in the case.

You know, and I appreciate everything she did, but she's not a part of this case. Yeah, you know, she acted like she was going to fight. She was going to take it to trial. She took notes for hours. She was going to just fight tooth and nail to beat this. And then wouldn't ask for bail. It was the most ridiculous thing. I try to get the court transcripts just to show you.

how ridiculous it was like the prosecutor asking for the to for the judge to throw out the not guilty plea i mean who does that who has the nerve to stand up there in front of a judge to say that and for my lawyer not to object and for the judge not to say how ridiculous that was you know he did say when you go along with it but he didn't he didn't admonish the lawyer or anything for asking or some that ridiculous you know so anyway i found out that i found out a bunch of stuff about that later about and then john i remember see i kept talking to him after this case we got we we got along real well and he liked to uh he likes to play chess and we play chess on our phones all the time and so i mean i'm always talking to him asking him you know

just talking just being friends of them and um so over the years i got to find out a bunch of stuff about this and it was funny right before you called me a couple days before that he goes man you know what you should write that story down about all that stupid shit you did to get uh to get me on that case that was pretty that's a pretty good movement you know i said yeah it's it is funny And it's interesting, but I don't know if anybody really cared them. Like two days later, and I'm like, wow, that's weird. That's a weird coincidence that, you know. I mean, it was a pretty great tactic that worked out really well.

But it really wasn't totally my idea. There were people in jail who were doing a similar thing. But what they would do was just fire their lawyer and to shoot from the head. They didn't really have a plan. They would just continue, you know, there were guys in jail, man, who I'm sure you've talked about this on you. I remember there was this guy was in. with his name was turboed he was in my cell and you get to know him and he's i said so what are you going to do what what what's your case all about he dude he he only had like a a year and a half or two

backup time like if worst case scenario if he if he fucks up as bad as he can he can he's going to go to do two years that's the worst thing it can happen right but the best thing it can happen is you can just be on probation and just walk it down on probation no this ain't the only guy i meant like this he said nope i'm not doing that what i do is i get out and i don't even reinforce the probation on sir. I'm just on the run right from the word go. And I just, I'm on the run for the minute I get out of jail until they catch me again, which could be two or three years from now. And then I do another three months. And I just keep doing that until my time's done. Now, numerous people were doing that. I'm like, that's ridiculous, man. You want to be, I cannot, I couldn't drive down the road with the suspended driver's license. I'd be so scared. You know, I don't know how you did that all that time with the worried about, weren't you looking over your shoulder. No. I mean, keep in mind, you can pull, I got tickets when I was on. You went to drive in school and everything. Yeah. I mean,

they pulled me over and I'd say, here's my driver's license here. And, you know, of course, it's not my driver's license. It's a, it's a driver's license in the name of some.

Yeah, they don't know. Sure. Sure. But it's a real valid driver's license. Yeah. Yes. I could see that,

but I would still be nervous. I was, now I've always wondered about your case. What if they'd have got your fingerprints? Because now they do, they can do that in a matter of minutes. Yeah, but,

you ever had a traffic stop where they did your finger? fingerprints? No, but what if you got, what if you got booked or something? You know, you would have, they would have done your fingerprints there. I don't do drugs. I don't drink. I don't, you know, like I always have, I always have a driver's license, full coverage insurance. I mean, I don't get arrested. You know, I'm not the kind of guy that drives around. Yeah, you're not stealing from Walmart. Like that's your career. Like people, you know what I'm not driving around in a stolen car with a broken tail light and a body. in the trunk. I'm going to get pulled over for a traffic ticket. And I'm like, yeah, here's my driver's license. No problem. Like, I'm not going to do that. They did. I got some

serious questions about that too. And I watch your podcast. Now, I watch a lot of them. And I got some serious questions about, about like, first of all, about the, the thing about the federal what they call trial tax, whatever that guy on his channel talks about. And you guys have said it too. I've heard you say it. I think even maybe that. Federal what? That, the, Okay, listen, that there's a, they call it the trial tax. If you take a case to trial, then you won't, then you'll get sentenced to the entire amount of time. And that basically that the government's punishing you for not going to trial, right? Well, what they're saying is, no, we're just giving you the statutory max.

We were giving you a break for, for not forcing us to go to trial. Exactly. Go to trial and lose, then you get what you should have gotten. That's exactly what I'm saying. And I said that to the prison consulting guy who, you know he just went off about how that's not the case i'm against it is it is the case that they're giving you a break for not going to trial they're not taxing you for going to trial that's ridiculous that's a lie and i i went i kept saying in his comments i'm like stop telling you're

you want to be this mr honest consulting guy and you're up i hope you air this part of it so he sees it idiot um and he i know you know him because you had his boss on one of your podcast you had his partner okay his he uh i think his last name is Santos, the guy's partner, the guy's, uh, yes, you know what I'm talking about? That's the guy. Okay. So I didn't know he had a partner, but okay. Yeah. Yes. Uh, he has a guy who, who, who they're in business together or something. It's like a, yeah. And that's who I argue with that about. He, and he's just, he's just, uh, dug his hills in on that one. He's not given in at all. I'm like, but you're lying, dude. You're lying about that. It's not the case at all. And it's not the case.

that uh that public that public defenders are are all bad people it's the the case is really that if you need a public defendant or defender the odds are that you're a shitty defendant who has a horrible record and you don't have any money who who who doesn't have enough money to hire their own lawyers junkies and and and criminals man people that steal and lie and cheat and they got records and they got they got they got cases that are unbeatable you know what I mean now if you have an unbeatable case, I don't care if you're, it's not like O.J. Simpson, that's not the case. That does not happen. I mean, that, that happened to him because it was a fluke, but really that wasn't, really that was a political thing. Not even, you know, it was, uh, uh, it wasn't even like his lawyers did such a great job. It was just that, uh, you know, it was in the media, uh, it was a circus. The whole thing was a circus. But generally that's not the case. People that need public defenders are, are, are, are lunatic. You know, they're, and they have enough evidence and they, and they, the, the, you know, they, they, they. And they, they. And they. They. And they. The. And they. You know, the. And they. And they. And they. And they. what's the lawyer you're supposed to do

they're really their job is to get you the least amount of time they can get it you know it's not really to beat the case I don't think that's their objective nor should it be the case should be that they're trying to minimize your sentence and if they're trying to do you a plea that's what they're doing they're trying to minimize your sentence

they can't take people talk about going to trial but you don't really want to do that even especially even in a mistake case they've got mountains of evidence against you and you have it in your head that if you have an expensive lawyer you're going win that's not the case it's just not they got too much evidence you're not going to win whether it's whatever the case is right so not all the public defenders are all that bad you hear people

talk about that all the time but they exaggerated i think i think it's grossly exaggerated about about lawyers most i mean your your public defenders didn't sound that great except for john that's right john but but that's true but keep in mind the woman want well i want it trial but she wants she did win it she did she did she did go through it do it and then and and the other people, they weren't, they weren't trying to fight, but they weren't trying to minimize the sentence, I guess, by, you know, the one guy was saying he could give me out of jail if I just played guilty to, it had to be a felony, but he had it lessen. I mean, yes, granted, he wasn't working that hard, but he didn't have a whole lot to work with either. I don't, he didn't

have the kinds of things to work with. I don't think that that's the other guy, that John did. You know what I mean? I don't think, and they certainly weren't motivated. I think John has some kind of an issue i've i've asked him in the meantime but he there's only so much you can say i've asked him what his problem was with the judge i thought the judge in my case was really fair throughout the entire thing and it took this whole thing took years took two or three years to go through and i've seen that judge 50 times and he was fair he was not unreasonable i didn't think in any uh i've never been i've never been sensed to a day in jail i've done almost a year of time but i've never been sentenced he never sent me to jail you never uh you know you just i didn't think he was all about a guy but this

dude did not like the guy and he didn't want to lose in his courtroom and I think he just I don't know I don't know what what motivated him versus what motivated the other people because I think they also had their own uh firms you know surely they do you can't make it live in yeah well they're they're um oh god what they call him j C um jaca lawyers or something like j C I forget somebody will tell me they're they're basically they're not public defenders they're assigned the case that's right and they all get Yeah. They all have to do that. In fact, in order to be licensed in the state of Kansas, I think you have to do some of that. Every lawyer, no matter who they are, if they're licensed to practice in that court, they have to do X amount of time as opposed to their paid. Yeah, they get paid. Yeah. They get paid. And that's what pro bono work. Sure. Right. I even told John when I got out, I was so grateful. I was like, well, I mean, I could give you some money. I could do something that, you know, I could repay you somehow. But he said, nah, he wouldn't, he wasn't going to, you know.

He could have, if he just said, hey, man, you want me five grand. I just said, okay, I'll work something out. I'll pay his life. He can't. He can't accept any money. No, sure. You can't. But you could hire him for another case and overpay.

Now, now he, now he went off and became a judge. But he had another case, dude, this to this where it is a case in Kansas where this guy killed, this girl that I was really good friends with in high school. He killed her mom. He murdered her. He was, in my opinion, it was first-degree murder. Well, John was on this guy. case and uh and those throughout the whole case he can't say much about it he can't talk you know he can't give you details about it but he was acting like he was going to beat this case i'm like

dude there's no fucking way you're i mean i've seen some of the evidence there's no way you're beat that case right well he did pretty much wind up he he listen that guy got out of jail on time served i'll tell you that john was his lawyer in the middle of the case and then he got promoted to being a judge and but i think john had the old case worked out uh um before that and then he just took because I asked him I'm like man what happened so so you got promoted and now you can't be the guy's lawyer

I imagine he's upset about that and he said yeah but he's got this he's got another lawyer and we all sat down and figured out what we're going to do and he did get the guy out of jail he walked out of 11th County jail but no listen he he uh and he walked out with time served

imagine that on a on a I don't I think it started his first degree murder then went to second degree murder and then uh uh uh John's idea I think was to get the guy off on manslaughter and time served second degree manslaughter or something. And they did that. The guy walked, but he did four and a half or five years in Leavenworth County jail in the jail where

it sucks. That's the worst. Dude, listen, that's horrific. I think what happened was, I really think what happened was they were like, dude, that's enough. I mean, five years in jail, that's like 50 in prison, I would imagine. I mean, at least I've heard people talk about prisons. Everybody in jail is like, they couldn't wait to get to prison. Yeah, you know, everybody, man, they could have some freedom and so forth.

People said, people were constantly, man, I just want to get sentenced to go to prison. It was like, I would think you would want to stay away from prison. And they were like, bro, are you nuts? Listen, exactly right. They were like, let me explain something. They were like, I'm going to hit the fucking compound. I'm going to have an ice cream within a couple of hours. I'm going to have chips.

I'm going to have coffee. Shoes. Yeah, I'm going to be able to walk. I'm going to have shoes. I'm going to be able to walk the compound. I'm going to have a. a radio that works an MP3 player I'm like you know

it was just like are you joking like yeah I'll be able to play racquetball by tomorrow I'll and you were like well here's the thing they they would all they would all bitch about the fact they had to go to what's called RDU I don't know what it stands for but they have to go to you must have there too they have to

what's it called R&D oh oh no you're talking about going through the processing center that's a state thing yeah yeah it must be state well they didn't none of them like that because they had to be in a cell with another guy for 30 days without leaving or whatever they're in there and they categorize them and then yes categorized that's right that's all done by the probation officer and the BOPB like they automatically do it so as soon as you're oh that part's over by the time you get sentenced by the time you get a pre-sentence report and when you're sentenced they send that to um they send that to um they send that to um they send that to um Oh, God, Grand Prairie. And they automatically calculate your level and what prison you're going to. And then they give you that assignment.

And you sit in the Marshall's holdover. So you might get sentenced on a Monday. And then by Friday, you might be on a bus. Typically, it takes a week or two. So you might sit in the same place you were before. You're in the Marshall's holdover. You get sentenced. You go in on a Monday.

You get sentenced. And then let's say within a week and a half, you're on a, on a, boss headed to your prison period yeah speaking of that i've heard of people talking about and this guy that i was talking about there's always i'm always i was arguing with about the uh trial tax deal the feds he he was talking about how people turn themselves in i'm like yeah that that is true they turn themselves in there in the prison they were going to go to anyways there are they know where to go they send some some of them go straight to camps and whatever yeah like the federal system that's what always killed me is that you would like i remember once

time this guy showed up for like it's like four o'clock count right like you're they got to get him there but before four o'clock so he ends up being in like the um he's a white guy he was a doctor pulmonary uh specialist and he he walks into a the cell you know whatever it was right right down from me and so afterward he like comes out and you see looking around like you can tell he's green as fuck and he walks and he's looking around and I'm like He's like, well, what's going on now? And I said, they're, I said, they're going to call Chow in a minute. They'll, they'll open the door.

And then we'll all go to Chow. So you just, where's that? I said, just follow everybody. And I, and we went and we ate. And I showed him to go through the, you know, how you do it and everything. Well, like, afterwards, we went and we walk the track. We're walking the track. And as we're walking the track, he's like, I forget what he got, six years or eight years or something.

And as we're walking the track, he says, yeah, I know, man. Like today, I was this morning, I was in. We were eating at Panera and I'm like, Panera, Panera, Panera bread. And he goes, yeah. And I went, you turned yourself in? He's got an eight years of sentence and you turned yourself in? And he was like, oh, yeah, I've been on, I've been out for like the last four months. You're thinking about what you could have done.

You'd have been gone. You'd have been in Australia by that time. Fuck, bro. I'm not turning myself in to go to prison for eight years. Yeah. Which brings me to a real serious question. Now, listen, I don't want to offend you. And I'm not trying to offend you at all.

Trust me. And I understand you did 13 years in prison, which is fucking serious shit. But what, and you talk all the time about how bad that was when you got sentenced to how, how bad. And I can, I can kind of imagine how horrible that must have been, especially with your mom being sick or whatever. And, but, no, let me ask you, what would have been an appropriate sentence for you, do you think? Honestly, what would it made you stop doing that? What would it have taken for you to stop? The 13 years did it, like the 26 years and the 13 that I did did it.

Yeah, but you got since this 26 years, man, you weren't in. You got sense of 26 years and you thought you were going to do that time. You thought you were doing that time. And you know now just from what happened with your lawyer. And what was his name again? Right, Omadale. Yeah, Omedale. Yeah, that guy's not.

Anyway, you didn't. know that though when you got sentenced so i imagine when you got sent to that 26 years in the in the time that you did between there and the time that you knew that you got your sense cut in half you thought you were going to do that 26 years and in that length of time you must have decided that hey that's enough i'm not doing it anymore it's not worth it i'm not going to risk it again but had you got sentenced to 13 years right out of the gate and only done seven right so i think that stopped you from doing that i think an appropriate sentence for me um at that time based on the fact that I had

four indictments in four different jurisdictions I'd stole in excess of $15 million personally not with Cotafin, just personally. Yeah, your own. Right, I was on the run. So I think all of those things, you know, all the enhancements, everything, I think if they'd given me.

I don't mean that though. I don't mean with it, man, that's what I'm saying. Well, I'm asking you personally, what you think was a sense that I'm giving you the answer yeah but you're telling me with enhancements and all I'm not I don't know but you have what you think they I mean you if I was the judge and I was sitting there what would yes there is what you're asking no I'm asking you this what sentence would it have taken for you to have been serious enough about it to not ever do it again that's that's what all they wanted you to do is

was to stop it to stop doing the bank fraud stuff they want to it's about punishment but okay so i would have said 10 years here's why okay because the judge already in his mind and when he says 10 years he already knows he's looking at he's gonna do five no not five not the federal system you're fucking kidding me and the federal 13 on a 26 but you got left okay go ahead no so the judge would have said 10 years he's gonna do get eight and half because he's he's getting a year and a half off for good time he's going to get a year off for the drug program he's at seven and a half he's probably going to get close to a year um in a halfway house so he's going to do about six and a half to seven years if he behaves himself yeah no no problems that would have been enough for me to go i can't do it anymore to be honest if he had given me probably five or six if he'd given me five years you have to understand if he'd give me five years mentally i i would have been out in what two two years at that point maybe even a maybe even a year if i'd go straight in the drug program i would have been out in probably a year so i did on two years on five and i've seen people do that was it worth it

would that would that have stopped would you would that have changed your mind about that no i don't think so i think at that point i would have said fuck that if that's all that's right two years for what i did now i know what to do like i was just too fucking cocky that the truth yeah 10 years would have placed me in a spot where you didn't think it was worth risking it because i'd have been my by that point i would have been in my my mid uh 40s yep that had been like like listen by the time you get to you'd have been thinking about it though eh you'd have been thinking about that well i don't know by the time because because listen you got so close to getting away with that shit dude that that that's the most amazing part of that whole entire story yeah the difference is this

The difference is you get to your 40s, your body starts to hurt. Yeah, you have to realize, I can't do this much longer. I know exactly what you mean, exactly. Yeah. You start thinking, I mean, if you're smart, you start thinking physically and mentally, where am I going to be at 60? And how, and I need to prepare myself to be in a position where when I get to 65, and if I have to, if I, maybe I can go to 66 or 66.

But when I retire, I need to have a place where that retirement check or that social security covers my bills. You have to have a paid off house. Cars. Right. Cars. Like, you start doing that. And you go, I don't legally, I probably don't have enough time. Now, granted, everybody's like, oh, you're smart.

You could do this. You could do that. I can't. They don't ever calculate the risk. The risk of me going out and buying three houses, renovating those houses and selling those houses. They go, oh, yeah, you buy it, you renovate it, you sell it, you're going to make $40,000 on each fucking, listen, you've watched too much, too much. Yeah, I know what you're saying. Listen, and listen, now, here's another thing, a question I've always wondered about your story, too, is, why didn't you have some kind of, some kind of plan for going to prison?

Why didn't you stash a couple million dollars in some safety deposit box were just like Josiac and that? What happened there? I'm arrogant and I'm cocky and I'm fucking narcissistic and I just thought I was too fucking smart and they weren't going to catch me because they're all fucking idiots and I thought you were that smart that you didn't even be a second fucking plan to do it I got caught in a bank handcuffed I know I said it's awesome stories to convince them that they had the wrong person I have I've been in a bank where where I've had fucking bank managers looking at me practically telling me I know this is a fraud the guy said that the guy said he didn't feel comfortable with that yeah the guy that said i don't feel comfortable with this whole time well i wonder if he's ever seen your podcast and been like i don't sure i told him i told you that was the guy the secret service showed up and told him who i was a week later the secret service showed oh oh oh yeah what you just kept me after you got so okay so there's that that that was i've always wondered that about about what you thought

about the time and then here's another thing that i have a beef with everybody on that channel well not everybody on the channel, but a lot of the people on that channel. This is what really drives me nuts. People think for some reason that the government or the state or the federal government has some sort of responsibility to rehabilitate people. Why do they think, huh? They're not even trying. Yeah, but why should they try?

Why should, why? Try convincing a bunch of people that pay them bills that, that, you imagine, spending all that millions of dollars on prisons and then people saying, people in prison saying that you owe them some sort of rehabilitation. Well, it's just not the case. The government, the people in the United States

don't owe people in prison any kind of rehabilitated. First of all, they were never habilitated to begin with. That's the problem. That's why they're in prison. Well, everybody else got habilitated, habituated to their environment. They didn't. The government doesn't owe them people. I'm not saying it's, I'm not saying, listen, I'm not saying it's not maybe economically a good idea to try to keep their recidivism down to a minimum.

But first of all, that's ridiculous. It doesn't happen. It's not going to happen. You can't. That's so ridiculous. What kind of program are you going to put people through? It's going to lower that. It's never happened.

They've tried this throughout history and with prison reform and stuff. The guys that go to the ARDAP program have a lower recidivism rate than anybody. Who says? I mean, the ARDAP program, you know, the government statistics, the Bureau of Prisons. I don't know where, you know, I'm not sure why you're getting your statistics. Well, I'm not. I don't have them. Right.

I'm just saying. You don't have them, but they do. Like, they're not dumping the money into that program because they're not being able to show. They're dumping the money in that. Here's why they're dumping the money in that program is because it sounds good. They don't have to have any kind of statistic that says anything. What they think is they got a bunch of liberal public. politicians who are going to pay for it because they believe in in rehabilitation that does nothing to do with the statistics or the or whether or not the statistics are real they're probably not real i i would i would dare anybody to dig up stats that says that there's a program of prison that that really reduces the amount of people that come back i mean i've never seen anything like that i mean i can tell you right now the ardap program does but anyway how do you know that though well i mean i i i know okay well first of all what your base is

your opinion on or your what you're basing your opinion on is just your opinion it's not my opinion on is what they're not just an opinion well then where that's that there's no program out there they're saying

who's they people in prison who come on the show and and act like the society owes them some rehabilitation and that if they had it there would be a lower recidicism,

how are you said, what's it called? And that the government should spend more money on, on rehabilitation and stuff because it, for any reason, it lowers that. Well, no doubt. I don't think there's any program that would do that. Not a prison program.

I'm not saying that people can't get better and not go, I don't want anybody going back to prison. I don't hate people that are in prison or nothing like that. I'm just saying, you can't go to prison expecting society. to repair that for you what they expect is is you know what they expect and don't expect is irrelevant in my opinion what i'm saying is that if there were pro you're saying because they feel entitled to get it yes they feel entitled to it okay so if they if they went in and they were appreciative to have it would you then offer them the program i'm not saying i would i would or wouldn't

offer what i'm saying is they don't have a right to expect to be i don't really know anybody that i don't really know anybody that thinks they have a right to us but what they think is it would be better for society okay yeah i'll agree with that okay that's even better because that's even better that they say that because i don't think it's true one and two uh they say uh dang it now you made change uh my training thought about what i was going to say about that they uh they uh they wanted to happen they think it be better and they they want their prison time to be easier for one because they and they think for some reason if a program would would uh make it less likely that you come back to prison i don't think so they could be there could be

an argument made and i'm not making this argument i'm just saying that people do make this argument that no prison should be less enjoyable and less uh you know it's harder to deal with in that way you wouldn't be saying things like it would have taken a 10 year sense for me to stop you might be saying dude i wouldn't risk it for six fucking months you know what i mean that's an argument that other other side has about their their attitudes towards prison And people also hate, for some reason, they hate the private prison system. First of all, I don't think anybody knows what it is. I don't really even understand how that works.

And they don't either. And why would you hate the private prison? The government can't do anything right. Why would you disagree with the public or private people having something to do with the prisons? Because you think, they think, not you, say they think that it's somehow related to the amount of people that go to prison. So I've heard it a million times. They think a private prison system is incentivizing the courts isn't to send people to prison for slave labor that they think. Well, slave labor in my ass, you can't, you could never regain the amount of money it costs you to prison somebody from their labor in prison.

You're not going to get your money back. The state's not kidding their money back because you made a couple of shelves in the, in the, you know, it costs them. How much you think it costs it puts somebody in prison for a year? How much you think that really costs? I mean, do you have any idea? I don't. But I bet you it's over $100,000 a year to keep one guy locked. It's got to be when you're talking about more in the mortgage on the building and

and the court system, it's in millions. Do you want to know? Yes. Go ahead. So it's about $36,000 to keep an inmate in prison. Now, that's what the Bureau of Prisons is paid to keep them there. Right. Okay.

What does it call? What do you mean? What, do you say paid? Okay. For every inmate, the budget requires $30, about $35,000 to $36,000 per inmate that they receive every year. So if you take all the money that they spend, let's take the federal government. Wait a second, I'm not done. Okay.

The second, so that's the first thing. How much are they reimbursed per year per inmate? About 30, let's say, let's round it down to 35,000. Okay. So that's one thing. The second thing is, now, How much does it cost society to have an inmate in prison? It costs about $54, $55,000 to $55,000.

Now, here's why. Because when you remove that person, you remove them from the tax base. Yes, I get that. Right? So you cost everything across the war. You cost. Well, most of these people are not actually productive citizens that are paying their taxes. They're getting welfare checks and everything else.

They're burden on the entire system. uh insurance and i don't mean to be put listen i'm i'm just saying this is this is the argument that's being made in order to make this our our justice system what it is how it's how it's how it's uh i hear you know i'm not i'm not making this argument for myself sake i'm saying that this is the argument on the other side of the fence and that's why they're the the the the prison system is set up the way it is because it's so easily uh chopped down when when you have people out there saying what i'm saying right here which is that these are not people who are outpaying their taxes, they're a burden on society to begin with. And the best way to relieve

the society of the burden that they're putting on is the cheapest way is to put them in prison. Because now they're only going to cost us 50. They're out here costs us hundreds of millions of dollars. Because even if you rip off a bank or even though it's just a bank, well, it's not really just a bank. I mean, they have a board of directors and they have, it's a corporation that has investors and people that lose money somewhere down the line. Somebody, even if it's an insurance company, if you steal from an insurance company the industry are working people do that all the time and they say it's not

stealing well it's not really stealing because if we rip off the insurance company they rip us off all the time it's really just a game of cat and mouse and it's justified that we do this that that's a stupid argument but I think it is a stupid argument exactly and that's what I'm saying about the about the

and and if you really wanted to figure out how much it costs to keep somebody in prison you have to figure out how much money they spend on the entire prison system and then divided by the number of inmates that are in the prison, which is, I don't think it would come out to $54,000. I mean, I just don't think it would be that low. It's about $36,000. What about all the money these, for example, is this included in that figure? This is just what I'd say if I was in a congressional hearing. Is this included? Is that what we pay on the, for the whole entire legal system, the police force,

the, you know, all the security that we have to hire to keep these people, you know, they're costing society so much money and the okay the what they have to pay to defend them in court have to pay for that is that included in the amount that it costs you to put somebody in prison so what I know the the 55,000 let's say let's round it to 55,000 the 55,000 that it costs just in general society is you take the 35,000 minus the 55 right so you got about 20,000 is what's typically paid in that those people aren't paying in. in taxes. That's property taxes. That's, you know, that's social security. That's Medicare. That's employment taxes. That's all those taxes that they could be out there earning. Now, if you're saying,

no, these people are not out there earning. Right. They're not. They're in prison. So you know, but even before they were in prison. Well, they were coming in crimes. There's an argument. The argument is if they were productive citizens making an average, an average, That's what they would be contributing to society. So the goal is to get them to not come back to prison. Now, you're saying, hey, let's make prison so horrible they don't want to go. No. I'm not saying that.

What I'm saying is this. I'm saying that's an argument that they have. I'm not making that argument. I'm not saying that we should change it to be like that. I'm saying it's a damn good argument to be had there. It's really not. That's what's keeping it the way it is. That's the other force that's balancing out.

out this force. You got what you're saying on one side and what I'm saying on the other and that's really what's balancing out what's going on with the legal system. Because there are people who are law-abiding systems who are sick of paying for it. They don't want to pay for it. And they know.

Listen, bro, I'm with you. You know what? If it was up to me, I get it. Fuck these public schools. Those kids don't need to know how to read. They can work in factories. And you know what? As a matter of fact, you know, I'll give me a gun. I'll police myself. We don't need the police. I hear you. Um, if, you know, you see what you're going

is so, you know, fuck it. Let's have three tears. You can pay your way out. You can, you can put somebody in jail for five years, hard labor, or you can just execute them. Like, I hear all of your, the argument. It's not what I think, man, you got that. You got that all twisted up. It's not, it's not. It's not the same thing as saying, we're going to get rid of the public schools. And listen, these are adults. These aren't, no, it's not. It's not the same thing. The Constitution. doesn't guess what the constitution doesn't say anywhere that we have to educate the poor we have to pay for it is it a good idea for society is what you're saying that yes it is so is it a good idea for society to to educate the poor

I have no idea the United States is no I don't I listen that's it that's an argument that lots of people you think the public schools are doing some kind of fantastic job of people I think that at the same time I think it's better than not educated you think they go what makes you think that wouldn't be educated just because of the public there's plenty of you send your kid to private school there's plenty of educational opportunities besides public school you think you think that some somebody that works at macdonald can afford to send their child to a private school no but if if there were no public schools or probably

be more affordable private schools i'll say that it's what i'm arguing is the the libertarians argument about this whole case and it is they do have a big argument about you have you ever heard of Ann Rand, the woman that's... Yeah, I've read Fountainhead. Yeah, the one before it. Well, that's what I'm saying. That is a good argument. That's the argument.

Yeah, that's... That sums it up right there, what I'm saying. I'm not saying it. I'm saying that there are people who say that. And they have... One time, in 1995, my dad came to me and said, hey, I got a friend of mine, this lady that works at the store, the grocery store.

They had a grocery... My uncle had this grocery store. this lady worked there and she her husband worked at the leavenworth federal penitentiary okay and he said this guy's willing to give us a private tour of that prison and all we got to do is read this book he said he would give us this tour but we have to read this book about the prison it's called the high house it's about leavenworth county and level federal penitentiary read the book read the next wednesday we will go there but he wants us to read the book so we know who we're looking at what's going on in this prison so i do i read this i read the book it's a famous book to you ought to read it's a fantastic book It's all about that prison. And I remember, I'll never forget this. We get there and he's explaining, there's this giant building. And he says, that used to be the furniture factory. I used to build furniture there.

Now, I was thinking, well, that's a great idea. Why don't we have the prisoners building furniture and making license plates and everything else? And this is what he said, because for every piece of furniture that they build in that prison, you're taking that away from the private industry. The private people who build furniture don't want us having those people build furniture. because they were putting this in a position to underbid them. That's unfair, completely unfair to the private people who were out there building furniture honestly. You know what I'm saying?

So that changed my whole attitude about it. Right then and there when he said that, I remember walking around in that prison and thinking, man, wow, I would have never dreamed that there was an argument to be made in that direction, that it was detrimental to society in any way at all to have prisoners. doing some kind of productive activity like golden furniture or making license plates or whatever well there is there is detriment to it you know and uh i'm not saying that they ought to make but i heard you use this word else at draconian our sensing is draconian right well and i'm not i'm not saying that you're wrong i don't know if if the sentences if they were reduced i mean i just don't see how you could finagle the system to make it any better even if you did have programs i just don't know i don't know if those numbers are ride I don't know if people in our doubt go back to prison less often but I've read enough about the prison industry and the the I'm sure you have to though there's

been waves in this country every prison reform and and prison uh it'll go all one way for a while you know they used to put people on chain gangs you know and then people come along and that's ridiculous let's try to reform them and somebody will get in office some governor gets in office and they put in this giant reform program kind of like in uh shawshankery dimston sort of when he was they were ripping off you know the corruption there well that that's that's another thing you know what i mean so i'm just saying i never hear that argument made on on this channel and i'm just bringing it up i'm not i'm not i don't hate criminals i mean i've you know i i i deserved i'm sure i deserved a little bit of

prison time for it's if you if i got caught for everything i did you know i did some pretty stupid shit and uh i could have very well went to prison easily went to prison too but i would i would have never gone to prison and claimed that there was that the the society owed me some kind of reform program or i'm not sure i think they ought to do this you know what i mean i just i don't know on my on my program who said that who said what oh about the print well there's a theme running through it it's a theme running through the and i love the show don't give me wrong i watch i try to watch all all years i like it i tell people about it all the time you know i'm an advocate for that show and uh it's it's it's it's all their attitudes about it about i think even boziac who's talking about

i think he's the smartest one on the okay i think the attitude might be they should but not that they're but they all have the same argument and it's all a it's it's it's almost a uh the argument is is so i'm like man come on dude like here's here's an argument that people make all the time too listen to this they say this drives me nuts why don't they make drugs legal and then we can just tax them to death and then it'll solve all the problems like they do with alcohol why don't we do like we do with alcohol we think the taxes on alcohol equal anywhere near the amount of money it cost society to take care of the problems that alcohol creates with domestic violence and car wrecks on the highway and so they ain't get it they ain't recouping their cost okay they can put a

50% tax on on alcohol and it wouldn't i don't i don't think now i don't have the numbers right in front me but i would guess that they're not getting their money back from from the destruction nothing is more destructive in the world than alcohol they're not recouping their money you know the have the police force spends 50% of their time 90% of their time on domestic disputes caused by alcohol i have read them stats i have read stats like that uh jordan peterson is an expert and i'm sure you know who he is he's an expert by the way you this is another thing dude do you sit watch that show i'll talk about i wish i could argue with them well uh andrew tate you could prepared Andrew Tate to Jordan Peterson

and it was exactly what you said now you said you said in a way what Andrew Tate's doing in his message is basically what Jordan Peterson is saying that's what you said right it was not even fucking close if you really listen

to what Peterson says it ain't even in the fucking neighborhood of what Tate says I think 90% of their message overlaps there is 10% difference and 1% of how it overlaps And here's the 1% that. What's that?

In one way does it overlap? And this is, since you said that, I couldn't believe he said it anyways. Because I thought you were, I was like, that's pretty fucking insightful that he said that. I couldn't believe it.

I'm like, damn, man, he really knows. Well, then I started, and then I really started looking into it. I'm like, no,

dude, here's, here's the only thing they have in common. Uh, mention you'd be more, uh, a little bit more, um,

have a little bit more confidence. That's it. That's as far as that goes. The similarity between Tate and Peterson. Yes. Tate, Tate's a pimp. Look,

they both talk about men doing what? Being more confident. Being men. That's it. No. Behaving like men. They both talk about how. I have the confidence to be a man and behave like a man and act like one and sit.

Be chivalrous. Oh, no. I don't think Tate says anything about chivalry, bro. I don't think that's part of this fucking. Here's the thing. I think you've been watching the tip. TikToks. If you've ever watched a full episode on him, Oh, yes, I've watched it. I don't, I think, I agree with most of what he says, actually,

but he is not a good guy. Well, I think the difference is, well, wait a minute, first of all, he doesn't have to be a good guy. You don't have to be a good guy. Yeah, but if you say you are, that's, no, no, you don't have to be a good guy. You're telling me this. Are you telling me that if, you're telling me if a multiple, if a multiple murder, sat here and told me you should be polite you should read more you should be educated you should go to college are you talking i see where it's going i see where that's going wrong because he happened to have killed three people oh you're right so it's the message not the message oh okay are you that's fair that's a fair argument i get it but but yeah and then and when you said it i thought that's pretty

good i'm surprised he drew that conclusion not that i think you're stupid or anything but i didn't see that coming. I thought, wow, that's a pretty good. You sat down and you wrote out all of the things that they say that are similar. I'll bet you'd come up with a hundred of them and I'll bet you 90 of them would overlap. Okay.

When you said it, I knew immediately that there was a little bit of truth to it. But then I started, maybe the reason I changed my attitude about it was because I looked into a little bit more about. At first, I thought you know, Candace Owens is, right? She was an advocate of his. And I, I

thought wow that's a that's that's that's pretty big deal but uh and then the the whole case about the that he was involved in was was supposed to be totally unwarranted and total bullshit is what it's what she made it sound like and but it's not there was some relevancy to the kidnapping situation how he was doing it you know what i mean there was a i don't know exactly what it was but i i remember watching it and feeling that there was a little bit it was a little bit more relevant than I had been led to believe it was. It's a, it's what's called, it's called a lover boy scam. It's deeper than that because he was actually, I, hey, when they said it about you,

I thought it was, it's extremely unfair. First of all, I hated that they, they were saying you were taking advantage of single women. That's ridiculous. They were taking advantage of you, if anything. They were, they were riding on your back. That's what the press does. Yes.

And if you don't look into it, if you don't look into it, then. No, I did. But I did look into the Tate situation, is what I'm saying, is I did look into that. First of all, he's not, I don't think he's a good guy at all. His brother, maybe. He's, he's intelligent to a degree. But I don't know. I think, well, what bothers me is that I'm, I disagree with his delivery.

And I, but I agree with about 90%. That's the most successful thing about it is his delivery. That's, that's the one thing he has going for. That's, I think the, I think 90% of the message. Listen, I think 90% of he and Jordan Peterson say about the same thing. Only Tate's message. I think Tate is so overbearing the way he says things is that it becomes lost. Like what you were saying about the guy in California that does the workout stuff,

you're always talking laughing about West Watson. West Watson. I think 90% of what was Watson says is absolutely spot on. But when you're screaming and hollering and yelling and color, calling people bitches and punks and talking about slapping people like, I'm sorry, we're done. I can't listen. I looked into this so hard. Well, I did your everyday YouTube, Google, whatever about him trying to find out if he really was in prison. If he wasn't, there's all these detractors out there, but they got zero evidence, dude. I've never seen one piece of paper or

proof or anything that says he really wasn't in the prison system like he says he was. I was contacted by a guy who's a prison guard who actually told me that big hurt. Do you know what dry snitching is? Uh, I get the concept of it. You're basically snitching on somebody, but you're not getting anything for it. You're just telling on them.

Oh, that's dry snitching? Yeah, dry snitches when you're not getting anything. There's no benefit for you. That's bitch snitching. Really is what that is. The guards will even say that like, bro, you're dry snitching. Like, you're telling me something and you're going to get nothing for you. this i don't know what you're doing right now and you know like sex offenders are big on doing that

but but um oh i bet the slimy greasy i bet they are this uh this guard who was apparently said he was in a california state prison he said that uh big hurt on multiple occasions dry snitched on other inmates like talking about hey there's going to be are you talking about big her or west you're talking about big her okay not west watson i i i i probably just changed that it wasn't yeah he did It wasn't what's once. It was bigger. But he had all these things. He wrote me a whole thing and was like this.

And he was like, bro, you need to do an episode on this because this is what happened. Maybe you show. Well, and what I told him was, okay, great,

you're a CEO. Then get me, then get me the copouts, get me the reports. Or I said, tell me what institutions he was at. And give me the reports. And I'll do a freedom of information act.

I don't have to mention your name. I said, but help me out. I can't just take your word for it. Unless you want to come on the program. and you want to tell me this from your, your mouth. He didn't have the guts to do that, I bet. He said, oh, I'll get you the information.

I sent him, like, two response, two emails. See, there's nothing to it then. There's absolutely nothing there. I mean, it's, it's, like, to me, I'll tell you that conversation. People can hear that conversation. But I'm telling you right now, I got no proof that that's true. That may have just been some man who's just mouthing off. That doesn't mean it's true at all.

No, no, not all. Just like another thing you said on the program, I think it was, that said these people that talk all this shit about sex offenders. Well, when they get out, there's a sex offender list and they don't go out chasing these people down here. So that's just something they talk about in jail. And I'll tell you what else.

It used to make me sick about these punks and jealous. You want to talk all this trash on a sex offender, but when he gets here, you don't really want to face the guy. You want everybody else to get on the guy's back so you get extort him. You ain't going to walk up to that guy and do it. You don't have the guts to walk up to him

and really face the music because he might. hit you he might stab you you don't know but you ain't doing it and that's just the case you might say you're gonna there was an esau one time and the guy was like a marine so he's an s o and he's a marine listen he knocked out two or three dudes that mouthed off to him so it's like yeah he is an s o but he's also a marine yeah like so here for guys there are these hard ass guys walk around like and they'll make a comment and he'll be like hey man you need to watch it boom he just knock him out got drops on the ground dudes are like leave that motherfucker alone that's right if they're gonna pay any kind of a price that's what happened i thought he couldn't walk the yard

i thought yeah that dude i thought he had to have paperwork yeah that dude walked in whatever he wanted to do because after you knock three guys out all these hard ass guys don't want to they're in a soft low they don't want to go anywhere they've been to the bend they've been to the medium even even people in jail it was the same thing the way they talked all that stuff i'm like man you just want you just you're not going to do anything about it you're you know right so that that's that's my whole thing guys will be like oh you should have this you said listen stop stop i'm not the guy that's going to walk around acting like i'm a badass i'm not going to walk around talking shit about this show right or this guy that i'm not doing it i want to

make my time as easy as possible if nobody's bothering me i will bother no one i want to make this easy it's bad enough that i'm fucking yeah that's right so i can't walk around I'm being like, oh, that dude over there is a snitch. Oh, fuck him. We need to check his paper. Oh, that dude there, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a show. Yeah. Run him off the earth.

Man, I'm not. What are you doing? Yeah, leave me alone. Yeah, leave, I want to be around it. You, yeah, exactly. I don't want to be around. I'm not going to associate with him, but I'm not going to act like I'm the savior of the planet. I'm going to start.

Listen, listen, the guys that talk like, the guys that talk like that talk like that, you get to a point where you're like, I don't even want to be around you now. You're such an asshole about this whole thing. You bring it up all the time. You run your mouth constantly. It's like they're hiding something as well. It's overcompensating and they're hiding the fact that they're a rat. Or that was a big deal in jail too. Everybody calling everybody a rat.

I'm like, what are you talking to? You're the, listen, I've never been around more rats and snitches in my life than I wasn't jelt. Those are the rats and snitches. Okay. The honest people out in the world that wouldn't rat on somebody, they're not. in the prison man they're out making an honest living they're honest and good people they're not going to be in there like that shut up oh man it made me sick the people in there just they're 90% of them made a career out of stealing from walmart i heard about that for eight

months about all these they thought they were so cool because they had all these ways to rip off walmart i'm like what man what is it wrong with you you know i mean that's just that's their career and listen i'll tell you a funny story about uh uh one of the best jail stories is an actual true story. There's a guy in there comes, you know how people come in, they're all innocent, right? Especially at first. Now, they're going to fight their case and their wives are going to stay with them and all this stuff

about their wives on the phone. They'd be screaming it. I just, it would kill me to hear people screaming. You better put that money on my books. You know, and all this you, man. Oh, my God. You're, what an idiot. Well, they come in and they're innocent at first because they haven't been in their long, but they fall apart

at the face to face any jail time. I mean, these people just I'm like, man, you'd think you'd be more used to this by now. You do this over and over again, and you just fall to pieces when you get it here. It's ridiculous, man. Grow up, but they're all innocent at first. This one guy comes in to jog been there. I was having a good time by this time.

I was playing chess every day. I was always sitting at the chess table. And this guy comes in, a little short guy. I remember the guy he was about, dude, he was noticeably short. Like, if you've seen him, what you said was, that dude is a short dude, right? That's what you thought when you've seen him, okay? His name was Henry. you can look this up it's in the it's in the it's in the leavenworth county times of the leavenworth journal this is a true story his name is henry i don't remember his last name but he comes he's in there for a while and finally i can see he's lonely and whatever and he wants to be a part of what's going on at our table and so i invite him over hey man what's going on and uh what are you in here for it and i won't get into how it happened but this is the story he says uh okay well here's what happened i was at the liquor store one day in in uh some town

around here. It was a fairly big size time. It sounds like over in the park or something. He says, and at the same time I was at the liquor store, it was right next to a pharmacy. And the pharmacy got robbed. And the guy that did it had on a hoodie, and he was short, like me, he was real short. And so I'm walking out of the liquor store with my case of liquor, just minding my own business walking home, and the cops pull up, and bam, I get charged with an aggravated burglar of a pharmacy. I'm like, wow, that's it. That's a fantastic story, Henry. I said, how tall was a suspect?

Five, two? How many people in that neighborhood are five, two with a frigging orange hoodie on, right? How many people? And he's like, I'm telling you, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I'm like, listen, man, I'm not going to say nothing to nobody. I don't care, but don't be acting like, you know, you're all innocent about it.

I said, there's got to be a reason why. They didn't just pick you up off the street. There's got to be more to it. Where were you going? I was going home. Who do you live with? my brother, is your brother have a record? Yeah.

For what? Robben a pharmacy? Oh, Robin the pharmacy, eh? What do you know? Maybe that was part of the case. And he says, but I'm telling you, I didn't do it. And I can prove it. And I said, well, how are you going to prove it?

And he goes, I got a receipt from when I was buying the beer that's at exactly the same time the pharmacy is getting robbed. It's exactly the same time. I was in the liquor store. I'm on a camera. I'm like, okay, Henry, well, let's see what they do with that. Let's see what your public defender does with this case, you know? And he's, but he's confident that he's, he didn't do it. He almost has me believe in this.

I'm like, maybe, man, maybe, you know. But then he goes to court and he comes back. He starts talking about taking a plea. And I'm like, bingo, he did it. Bingo, now I know he did it because why would you, why would you admit to taking a, you know, taking a felony plea for something that big, something you didn't do? And he said, because I got to get back home and lose my apartment in my car and everything else. I would just take, rather take the felony.

go through what I'm going to have to go through. I'm like, dude, first of all, if you didn't do it, I would never say that you did no matter what the circumstances are. He's like, man, you don't understand my girlfriend, my wife, all this, you know, okay, Henry, whatever. Well, I got out of jail in the meantime, and I remember thinking, I'm keeping an eye on that case because there wasn't something I thought by this time. There was something to this case. Maybe he does. Maybe he did seem confident about it, but he was going to take a plea to what? Well, lo and behold, they found out that he did, in fact, have a receipt from the exact time that the liquor store was getting robbed and they did have the wrong person. He had nothing to do with it. He had been in prison for two months and was

absolutely innocent of the crime. They had him on surveillance in a liquor store at the same time the pharmacy was getting robbed. It was him in the liquor store with the receipt. Yeah. I mean, that blew my mind. I started thinking, oh my God, man. Maybe there are. I mean, Jesus, he almost pled to a case he had nothing to do with at all. because of the of the pressure that they put on people now that and that's another thing that people talk about the bond the bond situation that and that's unfair especially in a case like that he had a bond he couldn't afford and i don't know how high it was but it was above his ability to pay it and uh he was willing to take a plea i mean that's scary now you know he should have had he been out he would have never been in that

but he would have never ever considered taking that plea and he didn't either he didn't take the plea and he sued the in the article if you ever got interested you could look it up it's it is it there's an article because that's how i found out about it and he had to go fund me page and all this uh you know he was trying to get out of this out of the state or something but i think they even had a write up it was in the newspaper that it was a wrongfully a wrongful arrest situation and he was trying now they say you can sue them or whatever if it's very difficult could you could you do that i mean and it's it's just very difficult the the burden of proof is really high like you have to basically prove that they knew or should be maliciously yeah it's

like let's justly but basically almost like yeah almost yes like they did it on purpose like they knew or they at least should have known and honestly the way it you know it's it's so difficult yeah it sounded to me like he was budgets he was a legitimate suspect i thought and uh yeah so he was a legitimate like how are you going to win that you were a legitimate so what they should done was they're going to say, look, they took him, took him several weeks to even check the receipt. They never even checked his alibi. They immediately, like they, you know, they're going to say all that. And it took them a while to do it. And in their defense, it did take a look. You can't just do it overnight. You have to, uh, they had to go find the receipt. Where was it in the beer

box that he had, he must have had it on him when he got arrested. Right. That's not because they did have it, you know. Right. They didn't find it. They probably just shrugged off the, his story immediately. Yeah. He's fucking lying. But then again, they hear so many lies. Yes. Yeah. I know. It's a twisted.

It's a twist. This is what I say to people about the justice system all the time. If you think you know so much that you think you know, then tell me, think of one fucking thing that you think you could do to make it better, to make it more fair. I'm talking about something legitimate that you can do to make it more fair. You want to lower the bail? Look at the places that try to do that. Or again and everything else that let people out off with no bail. Look what that does.

They put 99% of people that go to jail are guilty, right? They're guilty or are of something. And when they're dangerous, when they get out, if they get out their problems, you hear about people all the time being on bond and getting out and causing more problems. It happens all the time. You can't, the bond system I don't think could be corrected in any way. I don't think it could be any more fair than it is.

Except for maybe it should be more, I don't know, I don't know if that can be corrected or not. I don't really. I mean, people say that, but try, try drawing up a better legal system. Try, try it. I mean, it's just the fact that we have the presumption of innocence in this country. That's a huge deal. They don't have that everywhere. You know what I mean?

They don't, you know, the state doesn't have to prove you're guilty. It's you're proving you're not in most places. You know what I mean? That's a, that's a good legal system foundation at least, right? I mean, don't you agree or no? Yeah, too, to agree. Unless you got a better way you think you could rig it up to where you'd have, you could bring up a more fair system. I think the problem that, I think the problem is that you're just,

not going to find a perfect system that's exactly right and i think this is as perfect as it can guess what i'm saying really within reason it is yeah i mean there's the other thing about you and your channel that i think about all the time is you call yourself a narcissist all the time which i don't think that's true at all the i don't know why you would say that about yourself that you're that narcissistic now you're married right you you you talk about your mom all the time like you'll be talking on these uh uh podcasts about how much how you'll start crying at the at the simple mention of some of these things that's not narcissism dude

that's the opposite of narcissism people who are narcissistic ain't going to cry over nothing except for their own ass being in jail where you're talking about your mom you're talking about your wife you're talking about and I don't think you're any more narcissistic than the next guy and why you would think

that I don't know you I think that you were arrogant and thought that you were smarter than you than you I don't know you probably were smart as smart as you think you are but maybe you, you know, your luck run out or whatever, and maybe you are smart and everything. But I don't see why you caught yourself a narcissist all the time. You say that all the time to a point where I'm like, what are you trying to talk yourself into it? I mean, why would you say that? I would never say

I was a narcissist in any way. For one, I'm not. And I love to hear myself talk as much as you do. You know what I mean? And you say that stuff about almost waiting for the guy to stop talk. Everybody does that, man. Everybody's doing that. That's not. You know, that. I don't know. Tell me what makes you think you're a narcissistic. Well, I'm not saying I'm on the high, I'm at the high end of the spectrum. But you think you're more, more so than a normal guy. Absolutely.

And I also think that there are only, maybe you are. There are very few things that get me emotional, maybe four. There's four topics that I can even start to talk about and immediately well up. For the most part, I'm extremely hard. harsh. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm just, it just doesn't affect me. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me where I see other people getting upset. Gaging it. I mean, it's a difficult way to gauge it. I mean, how do you, how are you comparing your emotions to mind, really? It's a difficult thing to do. I mean, I might feel the same way you do about a lot of

stuff. Like, you know, you don't something tells me. It's not what you're asking as if you're a narcissist. Huh? I said, something tells me you do. Something tells me. There are a lot of things that There are a lot of similarities. But, yeah, I think. I just don't think you're a narcissist as bad as you do. Maybe I'm not saying it's bad. I think you're arrogant. I think what happens is people immediately say that.

And people say that and they think, oh, my God. And they think the worst possible. It's like saying, well, I suffer from antisocial disorder, right? Yeah, that's a big. That's a big deal. Listen, that, that is a big deal. If you really, that's real. That's like Jeffrey Dahmer type.

That's what that really means. That's really. probably 95% of the people in prison, in some form are on that spectrum. Now, they're not, they're not Jeffrey Dahmer, but let's face it. Well, everybody's on that spectrum is what I'm saying. I'm saying, I think you're to a degree, but let me go to a two degrees. That's exactly right, to a degree, just as a thing is, is my welfare more important than societies?

Yes. Yeah, I feel so right. But a lot of people don't. Like a lot of people. Who doesn't? A lot of people. doesn't think that liars i'm just saying a lot of people would sit there and you know they don't do certain they don't do things that listen there are people that work at food food kitchens because

they want to that's insane there's not there's not there's no there's not there's not people who are you furious because out of the goodness of their heart what they're doing is they're trying to impress their fucking neighbors they're not that's not true they don't they don't go to you have a very to be a good person they go to food kitchens to wait to of a flag of of in what you said about how wait for listen i say this all the time i'd wipe out every man woman and child on this planet with a nuclear fucking bomb if i if i if if if certain conditions apply for one for this if anything was going to happen to one of my kids i'd say i'll just all i'd rather murder the entire planet i'll let them all go i am before i'd do that i'll

let them all you know i i i don't keep know what keeps people from hitting the nuclear button the only thing is I mean, I say as those times, if I had to do, yeah, I'd retaliate against the world. Maybe it's a bad day in the Chiefs game or something. I might get mad enough and hit the button, you know what I mean? If my family was okay and I was okay and I was in a bunker, it might start looking a little appealing. Hey, man, I like post-apocalyptic people, you know what I mean? I might just, everybody I know is safe, boom, you know what I mean? I don't know what keeps it from happening.

I mean, you know, now, so is that narcissistic? instinct to say, yeah, well, everybody's, you know, what, what isn't, what you said is, is they're, they're mainly lying. They're mainly liars. You're not lying. At least you don't lie about like, you're, you're saying that they're, you're saying that they're liars. You think people are charitable, people aren't lying. What? I think a lot of people, I think those people aren't lying. I think mainly they're lying. And they're doing it for, listen, I, I live in a town. It's crazy liberal. It's a place where there's a bunch of food kitchens and a bunch of BS like that.

But I'll tell you what they're not, those people are not out there asking these people to come to their house or really doing anything, but putting down on a piece of paper that they volunteer at the food kitchen. They don't care about people eating the food at the food kitchen, man. I just don't believe it. There might be one out of 50 people that do it. But that's not their motivation is to help the poor. They're not giving away 50 cents at the stoplight when the guy. comes up to the window and asks for 50 cents they're not giving that guy 50 cents not out of their own money when nobody's looking you know i just i don't believe in that there's so many good people in society you have an awful of a good outlook on that one you know i just don't i think there are people like that but yes there are matt there are good people in the world no doubt but but 95% of the people who act like what you're saying they're not they're not they're lying about it's what i'm saying just like uh most liberals or i don't want to get into politician but most people that are about that stuff are lying about it

They're just lying about, like, the way they want to help people in prisons or we want to do this. No, you don't. You just want, you want political clout or your neighbors to, you know, they're on the bandwagon, what I'm saying. You know, it's ridiculous. That's true. You're wrong about that. You're very pessimistic. I'm pessimistic.

No, I'm just realistic. That's the truth. That's the truth of the matter. That's a, that's just the way it is. Do you know anybody that you honestly think is it really, really? really, really good person? I mean, how many people do you know that in your circle that you think are really good people? You might have surrounded yourself with good people.

I was a testament to you. I don't surround myself with good people. At least they're not. Good people don't want anything to do with me. I would say my sister is, you know, my sister. Yeah, you never talk about your, that's funny. I talk about, you never talk about your sister, who your family is. And I've wondered about that too.

How come they didn't help you out? How come they weren't? Were they there for you? What were they going to do? What were they going to do? I mean, do they love and care about him and. I mean,

they send me books. They, if I need money, they put money on my books, but I never asked like my sister. Yeah, that's cool. Or anybody like that.

See, you know why? Because you love, you didn't see right there. You didn't, you didn't want to bother your brothers and sisters with that. Periodically, my mother would put money on my books. My literary agent would put money on my books.

But, you know, I very quickly, once I started writing, I always worked. I was had some, kind of a hustle in there and then I once I started you know once I started um a writing I very quickly it was like like the second story I wrote I optioned the story and I got a check for

like six thousand some odd dollars yeah and then I got a check for like 3500 dollars for an advance so in prison you get 10 grand you're rich going a long way right yeah by the way I think you're I think your writing is underrated well it's too bad that you have to be a writer in this day and age where nobody reads anything because they don't have to because they'd be reading that boziac story dude that's a good one that's it that's a true crime uh that's good and it's and i'm a literary i'm a critic dude of that of writing i can't stand bad writers i know i've read thousands and thousands of books them are decent books really and uh especially the boziac story there's a there's a part in that bozac story dude that was

really a masterpiece i'll tell you the part where you're explaining about how he slept in that room on on there's a part in this book that you wrote and I'm like damn that's fucking good good the that's it like the it was on top of one of the building it was like the little shack where they have a utility shed yeah we're explaining the part about that where the motors are running and that humming and I'm like oh that's good that's good shit that's uh that's uh you know about 50 steps below Steinbeck or something like that but not not a hundred Steinbeck's good man Have you ever read Steinbeck

But your writing's pretty good And it's even more blows me away That you had the that you had the The real to do that I always wanted I wish I could be a writer But I never had the really the guts And never put in the time and energy that it takes

That's a fucking huge thing How many people in federal prison You get a check for something they did in there Well that's really That's a fucking miracle to me I would have been too lazy to do it or too afraid I was going to fail at it. You know what I mean?

And the books weren't going to be good or something. I had already failed it pretty much everything else. I found myself in prison with 25 plus years. I mean, yeah, I guess. I guess so. But that doesn't stop most people from not being afraid of failure. I think they're just trying to, they're trying to pass the time by playing chess and walking the track and playing basketball.

And, you know, that's what they're. they're going to pass the time they're going to get out and do just what they did my whole attitude in jail was i'm going to use this time to the best of my whatever can benefit me i'm doing it in any possible way man if i could the only thing i could do really was exercising get better uh physically and emotionally that's you don't have any programs in jail but i started planning on what i was and wasn't going to do when i got out of jail i'm not making that mistake again and i'm not going to i'll never do this again i know i love my wife we could have you You know, and we're still married. And we, and we, our kids are great by daughter. You're still married? Yes, absolutely. Oh, I assume you were remarried. No, no, no, no, no.

So she's walking around, she's the woman walking around in the background periodically. Yes, she, she was with me the whole time and we, we went through our thing, but, but what happened was, uh, uh, I quit being an idiot like that and, and, and, you know, problem solved. I mean, I love her. I've been for how long we've been married for how long? Married for 18 years. Yeah, this is Kelly right there. Yeah, and she's great. My heart goes out to you.

Oh, thanks. Hey, she loved me. And he put up with me too. Yeah, she, yeah, she ain't no saint, dude. She's no sane. That's perfect. Generosity of women never ceases to me. No, it was me, dude.

It wasn't a lot of it was me. It was, hey, listen. It was both. It was my forgiveness and my willing to, to, my, willingness to say how how it was all my fault you know and not to hold the grudge and it wasn't all her it was me a little bit too you know what I mean and now it's funny once we got out of jail listen and how long did it take it didn't take very long I took that month off and then I just went right back to work had an apartment had a car and everything else within them

within within two months you know and then and then she moves back in and and our kids moved in with this and that was I got a long time ago yeah I know that's funny when you see what He said, I said, yeah, it's Kelly. Yeah. The one of the back is the same money. I assume that was over. No. No.

And he said you were in the middle of the divorce. You were getting separated. Oh, yeah. It was a huge. Listen. But it was because of mostly my drug-fueled insanity that was causing the problem that wasn't there before. Right. You know, and I've no doubt it was my fault.

You know, you're just not reasonable. I have no doubt it was... You don't have to convince me. I spent two hours... You see what I mean. I spent two hours and I'm sure I only got a fraction of it. Oh, dude, you don't even know. You think you're bad, man.

You think shit about talking and stuff like you talk, man. I could go on and on and on and on and arguing about prison systems and at least you've read. I can't believe that you've read those books I've mentioned. He's read a bunch of... Anne Rand. Well, you had all the years to do it soon. I was out in society doing it. I read the fountainhead, which, listen, I read that book and you could have shaved 300 pages off that book and it would have been all right. Oh, dude. It was exalted. The one before the Atlas shrugged one, you could have took half of the book. Yeah. It was through the trash. It's too much. It was way, way too much. Now, some of the books that you wrote, what's that? What was it? What would you say it would be another one that compares the Boziac story. I like the one about the lawyer. Yeah, I was going to say, I really

like the Frank Amadeo story. But I wrote a book about a guy named Marcus Schrenker, which is really really good. No, I think I read that one. Marcus Schenker, the psychopath, idiot, the lion bastard in the airplane? Yes.

That's what I was telling you on the phone. I'm like, that book, that idiot, he gets out. I love the story. The best part is the way you fucked him, not fucked him around in the story but you wrote it the way you wanted to and the idiot just goes along with it thinking that you were just that's narcissus bro that's narcissus he was so arrogant narcissistic he couldn't tell that you were powerful in danger i didn't know right away i didn't know from talking to you that dude this dude no you know he's no idiot i don't know

i wouldn't have trusted you with it you know but he did because he didn't even dude he probably wouldn't have even remembered your name. He was so arrogant and such a low life. He didn't give you any credit. Any credit at all. He was so used to people just blindly believing everything he said. Was he really good looking or something?

Because I can see you get away with that if you're really good looking or something. Yeah, I think he's a good looking guy. Okay, yeah. That's part of it. So it was somewhat successful, right, for a time? I mean, yeah, if you're just He made it appear so.

If you're willing to blatantly lie to your customers, you can, you can be really successful for... Hey, who ain't, man? Really? Did you ever see this TV series, Dirty John? Oh, yes. So that guy really, like, my wife and I watched that last week. Which guy? Because there's more than one story in that series.

No, no, the main guy, John, John, whatever his name is, the main... The guy that got killed for, for... Yeah. for the woman the wife ex-wife killed him no it wasn't the ex-wife it was the there's four by different stories okay you're talking about the series

I'm talking about the original that was that pretended to be a medical professional of some sort yes no um he really really reminds me of Marcus Schrenker really yeah where you can't blatantly look at you and be like I can't believe she's behaving

like that I mean it was so over the top it was like you he was he's one of those guys you ever sit in and this happens in prison a lot you ever sit in prison and you're watching a TV show and something funny happens

and everybody kind of laughs and you see one guy kind of look around and then he goes and you understand that you don't really get what just happened yes yes

like you're a complete absolutely psychopath like you can't you can't see the irony can't see that any kind of any kind he can't empathize at all with the you know he he doesn't he's not able to see the humor in certain things so he kind of fake laughs and fakes emotion and so as a result they're just kind of sometimes

they're bad actors like you just that they would he would and ron people that's a narcissist that's a narcissist right no doubt shrinker no doubt shrinker's a a narcissist but yeah so when when you say narcissist i think of that guy not you i don't think a year now i do you here's what I think that I think that you say that is narcissistic though that I've always wanted every time you say this I'm like I want to jump on the things to argue with you well uh when you say or I don't know if you say this man but you act like this you act like I don't want to make you mad I'm not well you you I think you diminish purposely intentionally diminish the uh the damage that the crime could have done and and I don't know the extent

of what your crimes could have done but when you say stuff about it was only a bunch of paper man i only oh yeah yes you know hey look i'm sure you know that that you know oh i know it's more than what i'm saying that what i'm saying is like like i didn't stab somebody hurting but i didn't kidnap someone but it didn't hurt people could have been someone lazy retirement or so well here's the difference is it's like when people say they get into a fight with their wife a fight is physical you got into an argument with your wife I didn't really harm anyone

did I financially inconvenience people absolutely did I call to stay or financially devastate some people maybe well and that would be great if I didn't and I hear you but since I know exactly who lost money and how much money they lost

no you don't you don't even have a I'm sure you have no idea I absolutely do you know who's on the board of Bank of America the board you think the board you think I I crippled the board of Bank of America? No, what I think is that the people that it affected is a chain that goes to the board and goes to the insurance company. None of who the people you know, right? I'm just saying, right? I mean, right? Who lost money? Who lost money? Bank of America lost $2 million. Bank of America's

not a person. Bank of America is an institution. Bank of America is run by a board who lost money. The board doesn't have a financial investment in Bank of America. Yes, they do. That's why they're on board they're only on the board because it's their money in the bank it's owned by stockholders okay well then the stockholders but so you think board of america a bank of america it's worth probably what four billion eight billion twelve billion so that's how you're going to justify because they got enough money what i'm saying is that i don't think that anybody on the board or that owns stock in bank of america or has an account with with bank of america i don't think anybody couldn't buy even

I don't think I cost them even a Pepsi I don't think I cost them a stick of gum I see what you're saying if you divide $2 million into the net worth of that company that's a good argument

you're saying that it was distributed amongst enough people that it was therefore nullified by the fact that it was it only did each person a little bit of damage not a whole lot of damage to one guy they did them did them

you couldn't even say it was one cent to do the couch Yeah But if you calculate it in the cost of like Think about this What do you think it costs Bank of American out as secure against people like you And stuff like that That does start adding up pro

When you start adding up I want you got to do to To defend against guys and fraud How much money do you think they spend on fraud Preventing you think that's relevant? No It gets relevant? No I don't think I changed

Not one policy by Fragerbert because they lost so little money and on top of that i i probably wrote new laws matt because of what you did they probably wrote laws about it because it's such a the case it that because of the damage that you're doing right now even by talking about it because it but nobody argues with you on your show either not what here's what i watch the people that they don't want to uh and i don't want to offend you either but the people usually don't they're like well it's his show i don't want to and i get that i do the same thing, but nobody's confronting you about the situation

either. I haven't seen, well, Big Hercke, I think, did later, or did he do it on the show? Did he confront you at all on the show? Yes. No, he only thing he confronted me on. He did go into a case about the ratting. He did have an argument for that, that you're right was a complete lie, albeit

his argument about so what you're just going to fuck the other, and you said, well, they're all, we're all criminals, that's true. I get it. I take your side on on that case his whole thing was you find out that you're

your next door neighbor's doing dirt and he fucking you're going to just tell on I think his name is Bob I think it was Bill

because you're just going to tell him some racial slur I was like is Bob a fucking criminal like yeah I'm going to tell him Bob fuck Bob

and he was just like you're just going to do that yeah right in his house like He's just been shocking. He was, and he was furious.

He's up walking around. When they had to change the cartridges, he gets up, he walks around. He's in his hotel room alone with this guy. You're like he didn't take you in the bathroom and get busy. Two thugs. But here's the thing.

But I also know that I feel fairly confident, not 100% confident, but fairly confident he's not going to do anything. What I think he's more upset about is he's more upset about the fact that I I I before I went on I told him do you know my story yeah yeah that's right oh yeah I I already watched I already watched your story I know the whole thing you know something about it and I said good okay well then let's yeah absolutely I'll meet you yeah it's gonna be a great episode I guess it is it was a good one it was a good one too now is his show still around

I don't even know if it's is it still rolling yeah I think he's probably got like six 700,000 subscribers. He puts out videos a couple times a week. He's, he's living off of that show. Damn. Yeah. What else is he going to do? Yeah, that's that what else did you do too? That's another question I asked, what would you have done? What was your plan when, when, uh, you were, you weren't planning out coming out and starting a YouTube channel and stuff, right? What was your plan? I mean, so I didn't really, so I had written all these stories and I knew that's right, try and But I knew that wasn't going to probably pay my bills. If we didn't live in an age where people couldn't get it for free, I think it was good enough that you could.

Well, I thought I wanted to start a true crime podcast, but I didn't know what that meant exactly. I only knew because I'd read some articles about it. So I knew somehow I wanted to do something. So I was like. Something on the level of this podcast? Something like that. No, no. I thought something more heavily edited.

I like the unedited part of this Yeah I like the fact that it's not really Yeah I like the back and forth But you know it would have been more It would have been much more There would have been a higher production value They do the music

They do the whole You know that they're You know you take a story You break it into like eight parts And that's a season Well you take what You take Netflix A 75 compared to your podcast

That's the difference right there Yeah well it's exactly the difference. It's a different from a documentary. Well, yeah, but it's a highly edited, highly, you know, high production value. It's an extremely good show. You know, the thing about him was that I liked him, everybody, didn't you say most people like him?

He's a very likable guy. And I could see why those other criminals were trusting, they trusted him. He didn't seem as fearless as they said he was, although it did seem like it when you heard about his story. He was pretty fearless about the way he went. about his crimes. But what really made me not like him was the part where he stole that money from that girl in the Bible, the money on that that whole story.

He told it in front of Congress, too. He told that story in front of the fucking Congress. He told him that story. I couldn't believe him. Like, man, you talk about humiliate yourself, right? In a congressional sharing, he started telling them about how you ripped this one off out of $100. I mean, that took a lot of guts.

One, it takes a lot of guts. say it but two i don't think it humiliated him you see what you're assuming yeah i do say i hear what you're saying now that you say that man i'm like wow yeah i didn't think that way yeah because to me it's like when people you know people will say like with me if i tell somebody like i never shy away from yeah i was in prison this happened this happened i did this yeah me neither yeah i don't have a problem with that at all like and if and if to me that person they're offended then they don't have to be a part of my life. I'm okay with that. But if they look at me a certain kind of way,

like, oh, you were this, you were that, that doesn't make me feel humiliation at all. It makes me real, it's just a nice, it helps me separate. Okay. But what I'm saying is what he said had no real other, I thought it was a little bit of genuine humility is what I thought when he told the story in front of Congress. I thought it was real. Because, he wouldn't have done he didn't stand to gain anything from telling that story that was a humiliating story that i would have left out of my life story just like the story i told you about the tires that i did to that lady that i feel so bad about that that that if i ever see that woman again i'll buy her news i'd do it right now if i found her i'd give if she sees the show or anybody sees it i'll buy the woman a new set of tires you know what i mean and and it's it's it's embarrassing that i did it and i'm embarrassed to even say i did it but that's just to demonstrate you know how crazy i was that's that It's not the only thing I did. One time this is the you'll appreciate this crime. I'm at work one day.

I'm fairly broke, right? I'm looking out the window and there's a car parking this in an apartment complex. I'm like, man, the car's been there a long time and it looks to me like it's broke down. The heads are laying right beside the car. I bet they can't wait to get that piece of shit out of there. I bet I could sell it. Why don't I just sell it? I sold the car.

It wasn't even when I was across the street. I just called up a junk dealer. I said, hey, man, I got this brown Malibu sitting in front of my apartment complex. It's driving me crazy. How much do you give me for it? it was like 350 bucks they go we get a 300 i said well come get it when can you get it they drove right out picked it up and hauled it off and gave me the money and that was so i started thinking man i could sell a lot of other people's cars

god i got no money in this you know what i'm saying but he's all profit here's what i think yes it's all profit here's what i thought how am i going to get caught what's going to happen how it's going to play out. Well, here's what could have happened. Somebody raises a stink about their car being gone. What are they going to do? Call the cops. Call the cops. Where's your car? If they even found it, this car is only worth 200 bucks anyways. Keep in mind, I didn't sell a Maserati. I sold a beat down brown Malibu with no wheels on it. You know what I mean? I knew they were just, the landlord's just probably just happy to get rid of the car, you know? Another thing I are you doing them a favor. Yes, that's how I see it. See, that's true narcissism.

Listen, another crime I pulled, Matt. This is a good one. Well, night, I'm out at the bar. This is when me and my wife were fairly recently married and uh i'm out at the bar and we're just dude it was like right before the fourth of die it might have been the fourth time we're drinking everybody's getting drunk just getting loaded in this bar it was in baser kansas and uh i get so loaded i wake up in the back seat of the person's car who drove me to the bar it's 5 o'clock in the morning 430 or 5 a m nobody's around i'm completely alone it's the only car in the parking lot i'm passed out in the back seat of it. So I get up and I go, oh my God, I look at my phone or watch or whatever. And I'm like, my wife's going to shit. I got to get home. So I get out of the car. I start looking for the

keys to the car that I'm in. No keys anywhere. Nothing. I'm like, oh, shit, what am I got to get home right now. And I'm a good, like, I don't know, 12 miles away from home, not too far. I look across the street and there's an auto repair shop. I'm like, bingo. I run across the highway, go to the, and I know how these places operate. So I just look for the drop box. I'm like, I just get the keys for somebody who just dropped their car off. And I did. I got the keys to this car. This is great.

I grabbed the keys to this car and I have a whole bunch of a whole handful of keys. So I start going around and see which ones will start. Which one has gas in it? Which one will start? I come to this car. It was a white Chevy course gun. Oh, it fires right up. And it's, I'm like, dude, it's nice.

Things running good. Bam. I take off and just I haul ass home thinking my wife's going to be just furious, mad as hell. Who knows what she's going to do? The door's going to be locked, something. And so I haul ass home. and I had parked my bar at a bar that my uncle owned in this town I live in, right up the street from where I lived. And I thought, well, I'll just park this car at the police station.

So they know it's not stolen. I'll wipe it down and they'll just walk up to my car, jump in my car, and just drive home. Right? So that's what I do. I dropped the car off at the police station, wipe it all down. This is the best part of the story. Wipe it all down with armor all. Thinking, they can't get fingerprints off the armor all.

wipe it all down and then I leave it at the police station with the keys in the ignition so they can start it and the car ran final while was at the factory repair shop maybe it was coming home maybe it was fixed already because it ran and drove great right it was a red it was a white Chevy course going with a red interior that's how much I remember

I get in my van drive home and I'm like oh shit worried all about getting I get in the house she's just passed out cold doesn't even know I'm gone nor does she care you know where I'm at she didn't care she was passed out wouldn't have known for another five hours where I was or would have sent out, you know, she wouldn't even start looking for me for 10 hours.

And so I start thinking, oh, man, I hope I don't get caught for this car, but I didn't steal it. I just borrowed it anyways, really. It was a legitimate, I legitimately borrowed the car. But the best part of it is this, I parked it at the police station, literally at the police station, because mainly it was convenient and I wanted to find the car. I wanted to steal nobody's car. And, well, it took about three days for these. idiots to find it anyways three days man for them people to find it it was in the newspaper too and i

remember i saved the article for years because i thought it was funny but here's the best part the the license plate was it real recognizable right and uh every day i worked every day that car i would pass it on my way to work that exact car with that license plate and i would pass the lady driving that car and think to myself oh man she has no idea that the idiot that stole her car passing her right now and every other day on the highway and what was you know it was a little thrill that i got out of out of this uh just a little you know just it's a sick little thrill that i got out of laughing about that well criminals do that though i've read about it criminals get this kick they say like they look for suspects for arson in the in the in the audience you know what i mean

they look for those because they're there to they're there to observe they're getting the kick out of being guilty of the crime where they're surrounded by you know what i mean people that don't know that was one case where I felt that exact feeling. And no, I hadn't hurt this lady, nor had that cost or anything. I would have put gas in the car, honest and God, if I had the opportunity to do it. If I wasn't scared to pull up to the gas pump, I would put gas in the car before I dropped it off. But I was, I had to get home, you know what I mean? I was scared when I got to get busted.

So the other night when I was talking to you and I said, I'm not really a criminal. I think I said this. Yeah, I wasn't out running around to commit crimes. well for the last week I've been thinking about it I'm like you know what I was a little bit more of a colonel you know that I really let myself believe I was really telling myself I'm not you know I'm not like those people I'm not like strong I did all kinds of you know whoever lost them out who was out a couple hundred bucks that lady was you know it didn't it wasn't harmless fun but pretty close you know I mean I wasn't stealing anything I didn't go out and steal for drugs I was too scared to do I mean what was I going to do I mean what was I going to do I mean what was I going to do I I guess going to Walmart from what I hear and just load up a cart and just walk out of the door. I guess you can do that. There was a guy in jail that said he did that so many times that every punchout within 50 miles was so full of CDs and PS4s and everything that they could. Like Boziac, in the story about you were telling about Boziac, I think it was in your story where your talk, he is saying,

I think I might even on a podcast where he's saying, look, you can only do that so many times. You can only, you know, you've got to start going further and further out with this, you know. But, boy, if there was one guy that could have got away with him crimes, that I was hoping, because didn't the book end to where he was on the run? That's how that book ended, right? Yeah. And, man, it was shattering to find out that that wasn't the case, that he didn't just run off into the sunset. You know what I mean? Arrested.

Why did you have to do that? I wish you did just left that out of that whole story. So I can keep on believing that Boziac's out running around free. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's what I thought was he was out gone, gone. on. I later found out. And what about, what about, I mean, this is, or just bullshit. But what about Zach?

What, what, what, where's he at? He's a great, great toast. I mean, he's, you know, I, I, I, see around? We got him to start a podcast. It's called Black Zach. And, you know, I, I've tried to get him to do some, um, I would have called it black, black, uh, black or something. something i'd mix them together somehow but anyway go ahead well he picked it so um he and i i i you know i i had him do his life story like in parts and so he literally listen

he literally he was monot fully monetized within one month that's very difficult to do so secondly the channel started making money a little bit of money and all he has to do is interview one person at the rate he was going Colby and I were basically telling him listen if you just interview do one one hour interview at least an hour interview once a week in six months

from now the channel will be making a thousand dollars so once a week you have to just call someone up like this and talk to him for an hour not so easy to do we'll do everything else by the way oh okay wow no no we'll do everything that's all you got to do and you can use my stream yard account I'll pay for it everything But guess what?

He just can't do it. He's only done a couple of them. And he just, he's always got a reason he can't do it. I get it. It's difficult. Difficult thing to do. Yeah. I mean, but you have to think I'm there yelling and screaming.

And I'm just at the point now where it's like, eh, listen. Because to me, look, six months from now, it's making $1,000. But in a year from now, it might be making $2,000 or $3,000. Yeah. Like, this is something that, you know, it's like working a little side hustle, just a little thing yeah snowballs but here's the thing it's not like and this is the thing like a lot of people want to start a podcast but Zach doesn't seem to understand that like you've got an in with me yeah a big one a big one you've got an in with a lot of other podcasters that I can help

you with so you're not some guy who's who's starting a podcast who also works his his insurance job and doesn't have any ability to do any connection with anybody other podcasters like he's not naked he's not naked yeah right i can i'm telling you i can very help i can very quickly help excel your podcast and he's so likable it would probably blow up he's likable he's very likable and it would blow it i'd listen to it he just yeah well uh i can understand that completely man because i tell you what it's uh all the work that you got to go through to even i mean and listen you got to really be scraping the bottom of the barrel to have me on this show i mean compared to the other shift i mean you're running out of content bro you know what i mean

you're good because it's got to be hard i told listen i actually told my wife i was like she's like well what's his story i said honestly i say he's just got a knucklehead story yeah it's just super entertaining and funny about the whole thing and he laughs the whole time i said it's funny listening to him tell this story. She's like, well, what do you do? I said, we didn't really do anything. You know, he's basically just a drug addict that keeps getting and keeps fighting with the police and fighting with the courts and fighting this whole thing. I said, but it's funny the way he tells the story. Yeah, it was, it was, to me, it was funny too. After later on, whenever it was all said and done, I started thinking how funny it was. And like, man, that is funny that I,

that I, that I made that shit work. You know, there was a lot more to it, too. Like, one time I just refused to go to court and and the fact that i won is the best part that it came out dude it could not have worked out any better there just it's just it's totally impossible there's no better outcome that could have possibly came except for okay maybe that oh i walked away and there was no no uh punishment whatsoever but the only punishment there ever was was pro a little bit of probation by way of which i never uh violated it never one time and the whole time i was on probation did I ever get convicted of violation? You know, I just,

it wasn't that hard to do a bunch of probation. You know, the jail time is the hardest part of it all, you know, and even that was beneficial. I wouldn't trade that for anything. That's saved my life, probably honestly, you know, really. I mean, I was passing out on the highway, driving to work without my shoes on. I passed out the stoplight, and the cops come up, and I woke up. Now, drug acts will know this.

They'll know, they'll say, oh, yeah, I know. I've been there. Those drugs, what they do to you is, and you know a little bit about it, if you take them, what really is happening to you is this. You'll get in a situation where it's information overload. It will knock you out. It'll not, just like if somebody punched you and knocked you out. Sensory overload happens real quick. So you'll get in the car, and what happens in a car?

Sensory overload. Bam, it knocks you out. It knocks you out. And then you wake up and there's no more, nothing's moving. You start doing it again. then you pass out. I mean, I've been pulled over numerous times,

pulled out of the car, and I'm never drinking. That's the, and all they knew to look for was drinking. And they'd pull me over, yanked me out of the car, start yelling at me. I had a cop listen to this.

He came to my mom. This cop in this town knew me so well. He was, he was, he was, I was driving him nuts with my little antics running around doing stupid shit. Well,

one day I legitimately went to the goddamn gas station, legitimately, uh, got $5 worth the gas. Now, who's going to start? still five dollars with gas i filled my tank up i had any any reasons i wasn't stealing anything i just and i went inside bought a pack of cigarettes everything it just did they didn't add

i didn't steal anything they didn't add the five bucks to it and i didn't catch it it was like 20 bucks i don't know was the five they gave they they turned the pump on and i pump my five dollars with gas i drove down to my mom's house and i i was watching tv or something and about an hour later not even an hour later 30 minutes there bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo bo f fucking cop's down on the door and And I'm like, what the hell? I'm not, you know, what goes through your mind? Oh, my guys, there are warrants? What's going?

I'm like, there's nothing going on. Open the door. And he's like, God damn it, Duclemyer, this is the last time I've had it with you. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to get in that car right now. You're going to drive up to cases, and I'm going to follow you. And you're going to pay up their goddamn he's going off and screaming heavy about it. I said, hey, man, okay.

Look, I went in the store. I didn't have any, I don't want to hear it. I've heard it before. I don't want to talk about it. in your car right now i said okay dude so you know i run out i move my slippers or whatever and i jump in my car but um that's happening to me i'm centri i'm passing out while this cop is behind me following me the gas station and he just talked to me he doesn't think i'm drunk or anything right he just he's not thinking this but i can't deal with it it's only a couple blocks but i'm

i can't i'm trying to drive and i'm all over the road but i get there he's behind me he walks me in the Casey's and they go he's like I got him get your money you know whatever and so I paid him and I said hey man I'm sorry you know and he's like I had it Bicklemyer that's enough I don't want to see you again and I'm telling you right now I don't want to I don't want to hear about you I don't want to see you again and the next time it's going to be a worst deal and I said okay okay cool and I'm walking back to the pump and he gets in his car dude I swear to God he sits in his car and he's getting ready to close the door but he doesn't he's got he can't stop he's got to say something else So he opens up the door and he goes, by the way, you're the worst goddamn fucking driver I've ever seen in my life.

It's ridiculous. Get your fucking head out of your ass. He didn't know I was high. He just thought I was a bad driver. It was funny, dude. You should have been there. The cop. Oh, my God.

Ranting and raving about me stealing $5 with a gas, which I didn't even do. You know what I mean? That must have been in the time before I get kicked. I got 86 from Casey and get this. I go to jail two years later, man. Two effing years later. I went to that gas station. I'm like,

they would never recognize me in a million years. There's no way. I was driving. I drive through this down all the time. I pull in there. And totally in good faith, I'm going to pump some gas and go pay for the gas.

You know what I mean? I was, I'm not thinking anything criminal law. I, the reason I go to cases because you can pump and then pay, right? You can pump your gas and go get your business on. Well, I put the thing in there and I hit the thing. And I call the lady up.

I'm like, hey, can you turn to put it on? And she's like, no. and I'm like oh here we go again why why not turn the pump on she goes I was told never to turn the pump on for you and I said oh really I said turn the fuck to pump on and I'm calling the cops turn the pump on right now turn the pump on and she turned it on she turned it on she turned the pump on dude and I went in and paid for I couldn't believe it she she she thought I was going to call a cops on her what can I do she could have just told me to

fucking stick it so I never went back I think they shut that story down but who what a low life again kicked out at Casey's, man, the 86th are my Casey's. The honor, do they have those in Florida? No. Let me tell you. Listen, they have, they go out and like you did with the, with the recruiting of the homeless people to get the IDs, that's what they do to get employees.

They go out at a petition to get the worst people in the world to work in their store. They have to qualify. Look, are you on welfare? Do you have zero customer skills? You know what I mean? No, no, uh, uh, uh, do you hate customers, in fact? Do you, do you, do you not want to sweep the floor? Do you know, they, they're just the worst people, crack heads and junkies and everything

else that work there. It's totally the opposite of, uh, you have quick chips, and quick chips there? No, we got, we have, uh, a racetrack and, uh, la, wah, that everybody goes to, like, you know, there's, there's one, uh, we have around here that's the most, uh, efficient, most, uh, unbelievable. They have, freaking lawyers work. It can be people that are, you have to have a 750 credit score to get a job there. They, there's, these are professional people where, really, they do.

Your credit score has to be flawless. These people are so professional and so, the floors are spotless. Everything's perfect. Everything's being replaced. There's nothing missing ever. It's just, and it's called Quick Trip, and they're all around this area. But Casey's is the opposite of that. They hire all these cities, but the thing is they got the best food.

I mean, just out pizza is phenomenal and a bunch of other services that they have. you could pump pay you know pump before you pay shit like that so they're around and they're specialized in being in small towns so they're the only gas station other than little mom pop shops that are in these small towns around here every small town had a casey before had anything else you know but they're hiring practices or just oh my god dude i i went round around that caseys for for years and the manager knew me and she kind of liked me so she knew i wasn't a bad guy but you know she eventually got fed up with a tire thing she came to my house that they were coming to my house, dude. Somebody in the kitchen knew where I lived.

They were knocking on my door. I'm like, what are you doing here? It's the case she's manager with another employee. You need to get back up there and pay for this woman's tires. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She says, hey, listen, we got you on camera. We got, and I said, really? Because I'm pretty sure you have to be on camera. You'd be calling the cops. And the cops would be here, but they're not. And you are. So I don't think you have me on camera. And guess what else? I didn't do it. we're not buying that you know and then here's how they tried to get this money they tried to get

me dora police department found out i had a felony warrant so that's the first people that called me the dora police department guy calls me he says hey bicklemyer they know me hey dave how you doing hey what's going on johnson or whatever his name is uh he says oh uh what happened with you up at casey's what are you talking about i said uh he goes you know what i'm talking about and i said no i don't know what you're talking about i heard something something about what you might be talking about, but I don't know anything. He goes, why don't you come talk to me about that? I think we could straighten it out.

And I said, what, what did you say? He said, yeah, I want to, can you meet me at such? And I'm like, that was the very first hint that really that there was a problem. This was on the way to the clinic in the morning. That cop said that to me. I'm like, what do you say? You go, can you meet me at, uh, uh, uh, why don't you just meet me up at Casey's or whatever? And I said, okay, okay, I got some errands to run, but, uh, yeah, okay, we'll talk.

about it. And all the way there, I'm like, man, why would that cop? Why would you want to meet me something? That's weird. That is weird. So I called him back. I said, hey, listen, do I have it some warrants? What are you doing? I mean, I'm not stupid, dude. Listen, I'm not going to meet you with Casey's. I mean, we both know that. I'm not coming to Casey. You got my number. You can call me anytime you want. You know where I live. So, I mean, what's going on? I mean, he's like, well, I, you know, I just want to talk to you. And I said, come on. dude. He wouldn't say, right? And neither would. I don't think my probation officer ever really said what the charges were. What is that? Why is that a secret? I'm like, the cops don't know. The cops don't know what the charges are. The probation officer doesn't know. I mean, they know it's a felony warrant. And usually they won't come looking for you. I don't know how it is in Florida, but they won't come after you religiously or they won't purposely come for you unless it's a felony warrant. usually now i had a speeding ticket and i'm sitting on my fucking couch my own business with a

speeding one who cares and they kicked my door in they didn't have to kick very hard and they might not have kicked twice but they did kick the fucking door in and come in my house and got me over a speeding ticket i could i'm like are you fucking that bored that you got to come around and harass me or a speeding ticket well maybe it's you maybe you maybe you I had the whole, I had the whole county, I had the whole county up in arms, dude. I mean, one thing I did was, I forgot to mention this. This is part of why John wouldn't take the case. This is the whole part.

I threatened the, yeah, I threatened to, I was serious. I meant this when I said it. I called some, one of the county, somebody in the county and said I was going to blow up the building. And I was, I was fucking serious. I was like, I'm going to blow that mother. You know what I mean? Terrorist threats. That's what got it.

That's what got him, I think, not to want anything to do with the case. I think it was some of some dude, the publicity or something. But another thing that happened was, I was in a pharmacy in Dora. All I'm doing, dude, listen to this. I'm talking on the phone, merely talking on the phone to a reporter of all things. I won't get into while I was talking to this reporter. But it had something to do with a gun. I can't even remember the word gun got brought up in this conversation.

And the cops came there and tried to arrest me, tried to arrest me inside of the pharmacy. Right. Why? Yeah, exactly. Why? Because I don't know. The pharmacy or somebody in the pharmacy must have got shook up about the, you know, I was animated like that talking on the phone, you know. another time me and my wife were arguing i was at the swimming pool i think i told you this i'm at the swimming pool okay mine in my own business i got my phone with me and it was all i somehow i just called my wife and my phone still on and she heard me say something to another woman all i said was

hey you look you you're looking good or something like that well she blows up and start screaming on the right and i start screaming back but kind of not even really freaking out the effing cops show up at the swimming pool dude this is this is all this is true i swear you can look it up and then show up You couldn't look to seven. They shook up to the swimming pool and tried to take me to jail. At the swing pool, they had me out in the parking lot. They never handcuffs me, but almost. And if they would have, if I wouldn't have known the cop, and almost took me to jail over, over talking to my wife.

So guess what? They wouldn't let me leave until I tracked her down and made sure that she was safe. I'm like, what do you think? I got her hidden in my, swimming trunks are under my towel. It's like a kidnaptor or something. You know what I mean? It was just ridiculous. It was none of it was my fault, Matt.

I didn't do anything to deserve any of that. You know what I'm saying? How can I? I don't know. I feel like. Yeah. So when I got out of jail, I thought,

man, I better shut up. I better shut up. I don't want to know who the cops are in this channel. And luckily, like the chief of police or whatever, they all, they've all retired and grown up and they don't,

you know what I mean? But when I go back to that, that jail to go to the, I went there the other day for a traffic ticket twice I had to. And since then. And they all know me. And they're, hey, man,

What do you? This is what they say, man, you got fat. You got fat. You know, you gained a bunch of weight. You look, you know, I'm like, yeah, well, that's what happens when you, you know, stop doing that. You know, everybody gets, that's what usually happens? They say, well, they were pretty cool. The jail was pretty respectful. But here's one thing. Why would they start? Why do they try to starve people in jail? I don't. What do you think they're doing there? By not allowing people to eat enough. What's their purpose of that? I mean, save money. What would you make? saving money we're trying to save money you think that now listen don't you think like 90% of the problems are related to food issues and stuff like that you think they would why can they just serve an extra i mean doesn't it seem like it would be uh beneficial to freaking feed people to get them to stop being so i i don't know i don't know but we're we're in excess of three and a half hour okay all right yeah everybody like i'm tired and i'm tired and You don't listen to my podcast all the time and constantly do this. Listen, I work all day.

So I watch all the shit you do. And I'm constantly wanting to argue with you. I'm like, I want to jump through the stream. Be like, no, dude, that's not. You know, this is, what are you talking about? You know? And so, and you don't know me. You can text me.

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