Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Alyson Stoner: Create Space to Try

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Alyson Stoner (Step Up, Cheaper by the Dozen, Co-Founder of Movement Genius, author of Mind Body Pride: The 7-Step Guide to Deeper Inner Connection) joins us to discuss the role physical movement plays in promotion of mental and emotional health. She details her childhood in the entertainment industry, growing up around abuse and addiction, and how focusing on the mind-body connection serves as a grounding tool from those stressors. Alyson opens up about her experiences with using disordered eating as a coping mechanism, being disowned by her faith community for her sexuality, and her alexithymia diagnosis. She considers the therapeutic benefits she receives from dance, physical symptoms of being disconnected from one’s body, and the importance of implementing full body awareness into therapy. Mayim breaks down the process of training the brain to achieve certain psychological and emotional responses in another installment of Ask Mayim Anything.   FREE 30 DAYS OF ACCESS + ALYSON'S BOOK "MIND BODY MOVEMENT": https://www.movementgenius.com/offers/75a6D9pa Alyson Stoner's Book: https://www.alysonstoner.com/e-book-landing-page BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is an inherently mysterious part to this, right? Like sexuality, humanity, all of it. If we are fixated on certainty and trying to know everything and getting it right all at once, we will not only probably fall short, but we also might stop ourselves from that curious exploration. Hi, I'm I. M. Biolic and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where we break down the things that make you break down. It's my and Bialy's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Today we're going to be breaking down. We have guests that are very, very difficult to describe. But before we get into Alison Stoner, the multidisciplinary artist published author and global speaker and co-founder of movement genius, I'd like to introduce you to the person

that is the most difficult to describe Jonathan Cohen. Hello, my. Our episodes aren't about one thing anymore. They're not. I'm going to redo everything. But we are always breaking something down, but it really is breaking down kind of whatever these really multifaceted guests that we have are bringing to the table. We will break down whatever you bring us. That's it. That's the new slogan. Is that our new tagline? People are in for a treat because we're giving away, well, we're not. Allison is, she's giving away a free month of classes on her movement site.

It's so cool. Check out Bialicbreakdown.com. That's BIA. L-I-K. Breakdown.com. Go to Allison's episode page. We are going to put a link there. We're also going to post it on the Instagram page.

So awesome. At Bialik Breakdown on Insta. We're going to give you the link. And we're also going to do a book giveaway. So we are extremely excited for this. She's Lego Bat Girl in the Lego movie. If people don't know who Allison is, break it down for us, mine. It's like I don't even know how to explain it.

So she started acting when she was like six years old and she was in, you know, the cheaper by the dozen movies. She was little. She was tiny. She was also in the Step Up franchises. She's been in over 200 films, TV shows, and tours. She's an accomplished dancer. like has done backup dancing like for real legit people, which she'll talk about a little bit. She also has done a ton of voiceover work, The Incredibles 2, Amazon's Pete the Cat, Lego Batman, as I mentioned.

She wrote an op-ed piece for People magazine called The Toddler to Train Rec Pipeline, talking about the complexity of the spotlight on child stars and kind of how that impacts mental wellness. She's very, very deeply kind of immersed in the mental health community. And she has an e-book, Mind-Body Pride, the Seven Step Guide to Deeper Interconnection, which is designed for queer folks and their allies. And we will also talk about that. She's been very open and actually wrote a beautiful article in 2018 for Teen Vogue about her sexual identity. And one of her first formative experiences was a relationship with a woman, which was very, I don't want to say, say surprising to her, but definitely a challenge to the religious framework and kind of the societal

framework that she was in. And there's a very, very intimate, beautiful discussion that we have with her. She also opted for a sort of conversion therapy, which she obviously now is very comfortable not embracing as she's very comfortable with her sexuality. And she's incredibly articulate, incredibly well-spoken and a really, really thoughtful person, a person full of thought. Like, this is a person whose brain, I don't think, stops thinking and questioning and just had such a wonderful time talking to her. Do you want to add anything else?

I just couldn't agree more. And my biggest regret in this episode is that we didn't get the Janet Jackson choreographed dancing. And that's a great teaser and a wonderful opportunity for us to welcome Alison Stoner. Welcome, Allison. Break it down. It's so nice to talk to you. It is so mutual. I actually must start with a quick confession.

I have not owned a TV for more than a decade, so I have to let you know that I'm coming to you, less familiar with your theatrical work, and more aware of your academic background, and through researching and listening to some interviews, more of your faith tradition. Then this interview is over, because we were just going to do a quiz.

about all the times I've been on television in the last decade. Well, honestly, I was super jazz to think about a conversation where we could discuss psychoneuroimmunology, contemplative mysticism, maybe bringing mental health toolkits to the entertainment industry and embodied cognition and whatever other wildcards. So glad to be here. Jonathan and I are open for all of those things.

I have to say, you know, in reading kind of your bio and learning a bit about you, yeah, I feel like this could be like an eight-hour-long conversation There's many aspects of your life and experience that I particularly resonate with. And there's many aspects of the work that you do that's of particular interest to me and Jonathan, especially your kind of mind-body. I don't even want to say work or platform. It's like your kind of utter embodied commitment to this as kind of a lifestyle. So Jonathan and I, I think, are just out of the age range of kind of growing up with you on television and kind of, I mean, you were.

born the year I graduated high school. The way I like to describe that is like, I was already deeply depressed and thought that there was no purpose in living by the time you were born. Like I had had a whole life experience of suffering and dismay. Well, interestingly, I came out of the womb working and being commodified, so we might have more overlap than we expect. So for people who, you know, who may not necessarily know, you did. You started acting and also modeling.

you're a dancer. You grew up surrounded by very successful people, meaning you were in very highly structured, well-functioning industry environments. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of what you remember of starting performing and what that kind of was like? Sure. Yes. The elevator pitch of my origin story goes, I was born in Toledo, Ohio. I started dancing at three, around six or seven. We enrolled in a certain kind of modeling and talent community studio. And they recommended us try this convention in New York where we met with agents and managers. You hear a lot about these. Some of them are scams.

This one was legitimate. So legitimate that it changed the trajectory of my life. And so I experienced, fortunately, some early success. They recommended us relocate to Los Angeles full time. And yes, I at seven was, you know, learning the ends and outs of a complex industry. And I experienced both the outward glamour of it as well as the internal impact. At that age, it's hard to understand if you're really making the decision as a, you know,

a genuine dream and pursuit. Of course, there was a lot of wonderful once-in-a-lifetime experiences. But there was also a severe toll on my health. And, you know, they say to pursue the problem you were born to understand. And I honestly feel that because I experienced chaos at work as well as in my home life, healing and the mind-body connection were my outlets. They were my grounding tools and they became my driving force, you know, how I wanted to contribute to the world. Because I knew that I was struggling and needed help coping with everything going on around me. So tell us a little bit about your childhood.

What kind of home did you come from? Like, what did your parents do? Did you have siblings? You come from a religious family. Can you talk a little bit about that, too? Ironically, I was not raised in a religious household. I actually voluntarily chose that at around age 13. So it was a response to having a household that involved abuse and addiction of various kinds.

And I actually met a young gal in the neighborhood, and I saw that her family had some kind of glue about them. They just seemed connected. They seemed like they were on each other's sides. They didn't feel as alienated, whereas I kind of felt estranged from my siblings. I have two immediate sisters and then lots of step siblings. And I started, you know, going to service with them. It was a non-denominational Christian church. And I really was exposed to a different concept of community.

And it gave me a lot of hope. It gave me some stability. And also there are many shadows. sides is layered. But fundamentally, my household growing up, my mother was an executive meeting planner, so super organized. And wow, did that come into play in the entertainment industry? She kept all of our books in order. And I knew what outfit I wore to that audition. So if I got a call back, I would put the same outfit back on. And then my father remained in Ohio. So I didn't really grow up spending time with him. And that's something that brings a lot of sadness. But

There's a sweetness to it because I'm now reengaging with him and building a beautiful relationship. My stepfather, he's now passed. And he played quite a strong figure in our lives in terms of, yeah, he brings a lot of complexity to it. So getting involved in entertainment was not something we endeavored to do. We were not an entertainment family. We didn't, at least to my understanding, care about fame.

My mother, to my understanding, was not a Hollywood mom. She was doing her best to protect me every step of the way. And also dealing with this very surprising situation where the youngest person in the family was now making a lot of money doing something. There was pressure. There was now fame and public notoriety. There were safety, education, all these different factors that you just don't think about until you're in it. and you're moving a mile a minute. So you also just kind of like looking through your, you know, your IMDB page, like you worked pretty consistently.

There's a lot of iterations to kind of your life in your teens and into your 20s. Tell us a little bit about sort of that transition or, you know, the point from where you were, I'm this child who does these things to I'm having concerns about if this is the life for me. Did that happen over time? Was it one event? Was it many? No, no, yeah, it was, I have always, I have always asked very deep questions and had many existential crises. And I, I'm very thankful for that. I really enjoy what curiosity has offered

my, my life experience and path. And growing up, I could tell that some things were, you know, dysfunctional, whether it was internal family dynamics, or it was the fact that I walked outside and someone screamed my name and thought of me as a hero. And I just knew my own humanity so closely that I was like, okay, what is this illusion of separation? What is this cultural phenomenon? What is going on? And how is this tied also to the economy and whoa, whoa, whoa, systems constructs, huh? So I think I was always questioning. I did have, you know, different red flag moments in terms of health conditions, right? So I formed an eating disorder as a response to the environment and pressures. And that didn't make much sense to me logically, but it certainly was my best effort at a

coping mechanism for many years. And that landed me eventually in rehab by my choice. In fact, my team at the time submitted me on auditions while I was on bed rest and expected me to step aside and do self-tapes instead of going to the therapy sessions. So that just gives a little context there. Do you identify which kind of disordered eating you had? I mean, obviously, I know it's been public, but I don't know if you talk about it more. Yeah, sure. I, you know, I always am mindful of how different information can be triggering for folks going through disordered eating. experiences. So I kind of was like, let's try them all. It started with exercise, bulimia. So I wasn't

physically purging, but I would, you know, run nine miles a day and then go to 10-hour dance rehearsals and then go to basketball practice and just, you know, had to be in that negative. Yeah, we'll limit it there. And then, you know, overall restriction. So anorexia, nervosa. and a very common experience for folks is to fluctuate, right? To kind of go swing back on the pendulum. And so I also dabbled with binge eating quite severely. Those are some of the most shame-filled stories that I have in memories. And they happened on some of the largest sets I was on.

So it's interesting when folks ask, you know, what was it like working on something, something? And I'm like, ooh, I remember this particular night in that hotel when I was driven up the wall with anxiety and, like, you know, didn't know what else did you except turn to food. That was the eating disorder experience. But once I was in rehab, I realized what an incredible opportunity and fortunate opportunity I had to start deconstructing all of the facets of my identity and the different frameworks that had driven me, including, you know, faith, including family dynamics. So yeah, that was, you know, maybe the thread that kind of helped me come undone,

thankfully. And when was that just so we can kind of timeline it? Yeah. So I was, I went in before I turned 18. I heard that if you wait to go in as an adult, you know, the environment can be a little bit heavier. So I was like, all right, put me in with the youth, even though I feel 65. Miami-Belix breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine. Drink more water. There's no real data.

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You even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Superpower used to cost $499. Right now, it's $199 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional. additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my and Biala's Breakdown to help support the show. I felt exhausted by the time I was 15. And I was talking to Jonathan about this. Like, I think it's important to not kind of tell the

story of like, oh, it's so hard to be young and famous, you know. And I don't think that's, I mean, from what I've learned about you, that's really not, it's not your narrative and it's not your agenda, but I think what's kind of alarming to people, and Jonathan, maybe you can speak to this, like, I think what's alarming to people is when people who they know publicly, or people who like, oh, I saw her in this or I saw her in that, when they are complicated, nuanced, thinking, philosophically curious, humans who aren't always satisfied with the things that the rest of culture would determine you should be satisfied with. Does that? No, it's covered on a couple of our episodes where people have a relationship and I think it's more complicated because the public

has a relationship with each of you in their very particular way. So when you say, wait a second, that is not only who I am. There's all this other facet that is held back and it's very complex. They struggle with that. I think also, and like I don't mean to go here, but let's, I also think it's different being an assigned female at birth, having this experience publicly. because I think there's also this perception of like, well, if you're pretty and famous, what are you complaining about, right? And I feel like there's a lot more permission. I mean, I could be wrong, but my perception is that there's a lot more permission for men to explore these things, think about these things. Like, I feel like there definitely is a bias, though,

or some kind of like, ooh, what's she so uppity about? What's she complaining about? And I don't feel like there's that narrative around assigned males at birth. I would add to that, we have expertly designed the artifice. So why would someone want to see the multidimensional, you know, multifaceted human being? Because the role that we play in someone's life might be for a hit of nostalgia. It might be just to be able to cathartically experience something that they themselves are going through. You know, it might be to admire something that seems unattainable. And it could be any number of reasons.

And we don't educate each other bi-directionally, right? So I'm not inviting you in because I have to uphold the persona or I might become less appealing as a quote-unquote celebrity. I'm not calling myself a celebrity, by the way. But. You're a celebrity. And then by-directionally, listening to someone's perception. of entertainment so we can better communicate with each other.

Because when we keep up this illusion, no one wins. So the artists, you know, you hear the common narratives of mental health, physical health, struggles, overdoses, et cetera, et cetera, for some reason, that's happening generation and generation again. And then publicly, we see the impact of the kinds of narratives that we tell and how it affects society, how it affects people's developmental growth and like even just the traumatizing image, images that we share and the desensitization and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of it. So we could stand to listen to everyone's voice a little bit more and go in with that open mind

where we're seeking first to understand before expecting to be understood. If I had been having sex at the time that this lady was born, this would be my kid. I would make a kid like this. she'd be like, that's what I would have made. I mean, I think you're amazing. No, but like, that's like, those are all the things. Angsty cerebral. Yeah.

Get out of my head, lady. Um, yes, angsty cerebral. No, but like, like, sorry, I just really like you a lot. Um, so let's also, let's go into this place because I think that, again, like, so that we don't kind of fall into like the trope of like being famous. was so hard and here's why it was hard. All those things are true. And like you and I could talk about that forever. But what's interesting is you have used your experience, which we all do as humans, to then see what you can put out there, right? Instead of what do you want from me, what do I want from me? And what am I going to put out into the world and the universe? And I'm incredibly impressed

by your dance credits alone, meaning your acting credits are like one whole party. But then And so this is something, I think you know this. I always wanted to be a backup dancer for Janet Jackson. Janet is my number one. Stop. I wanted to be part of the rhythm nation. And like, I would learn the routine. Like, so it's a thing. Right. I can actually teach you the original choreography to recognition. So there might need to be a thing of that. That might need to happen. But honey, you have like lived a dancer life that here's the thing. I've been a dancer. I was dancing my whole life. I was classically trained in English ballot. Like, I did all the things, you know, but this body didn't want to, I mean, at the time, this body was not acceptable for a dancer's body because it was the 80s and the 90s. And like, you weren't, it's like, curvy was not it. Like, I didn't have what's, and now when I see women dancing with like, they have my body and they like move and they're accepted and you can be part of the rhythmation. Anyway, but you have had like a dancer experience even through your acting career. And that's been a huge. huge component then of sort of where you spend your mind body space is in your body. So talk a little bit about sort of what dance has been for you. Was that a safe place? You know, for me as a person with disordered eating, my body is often not a safe place. And, you know, this kind of notion of like,

I'm cut off at the neck and like nothing has to talk to each other, right? Or like, oh, I can get really into my body, but then I have to retreat. Or it makes me cry when I do these movements. and I don't know why, right? Like, tell us your kind of body journey. And if you can, talk about how you sort of transitioned into making this kind of a huge part of your space. Yes, that is a great question that has a lot of parts to it. So let's dig in. So first, I think to make it relevant to everyone listening, yes, there are tons of reasons that we may feel disconnected from our bodies,

the sheer pace of modern life, keeping us kind of in a state of chronic stress. And, you know, also technology kind of leads to that sense of escapism or even dissociation, maybe embodiment and, you know, tuning into your emotions and sensations and inner experience was not modeled at home. It's not often modeled in Western households. You might have, you know, this plethora of negative experiences of things that have happened to you or through. your body, which causes it to feel unsafe or untrustworthy. And then you've got layers like media, you've got layers like religion, you've got a lot of different things going into why you may not feel at home in your skin. So for me, when it comes to dance, interestingly, dance was so performative

that it wasn't really an inner expressive modality for me. I didn't really glean the therapeutic benefits of it until I stepped aside from the industry and got to rediscover movement more in a somatic sense and, you know, in a health-first sense. So, ironically, you might assume that an actress and a dancer is very in tune with her body. Now, from a proprioceptive standpoint, so being aware of where my body is in space, yes, you know, technical precision, for sure. But when it comes to that interoceptive, like, inner sensation, I was diagnosed with alexathemia.

I literally could not name or identify the emotions in my body. And I could cry on cue mechanically, but still have a complete emotional block. And I accredit that to many things, right? So, you know, growing up and experiencing different kinds of trauma, being in an audition room where you're, like, manipulating yourself and contorting into these different things. states of being and you want them to be authentic, but over time, you're like, ow, I'm being vulnerable and then I get rejected. This doesn't feel nice. So closer to, you know, after 18 and discovering also that I was attracted to a woman for the first time, I was like, oh my gosh,

what is going on in my body? I'm feeling a crush for the first time. This is intense. Like, I'm emotionally 12, but I'm physically 18 and I have no experience. Ah. So I think, think, you know, all of these different things led me to, especially therapy, re-inhabit my body slowly one sensation at a time. And it's bittersweet to say this, but I was so detached that I didn't know I was in a constant state of anxiety and stress until I was slowly out of it. Can you say that again? Because that's extremely important. You said you didn't even know. Yeah, I was not aware that I could fill in the blank, whatever the name and the label are, I was kind of like, oh, that's a diagnosis. I thought that was Tuesday.

This is a really powerful point. And it's actually really like, I feel it's very moving because the experience you're describing happens to a lot of different kids, right? And not all of them will react or have the responses that you had, right? So we can owe that to kind of like variability, right? genetics, environment, epigenetics, like, whatever. Okay, and I don't mean whatever flippantly, right, all the things. So then broaden that out, right? So, yes, we've been talking about it a lot more in the media.

We've heard athletes talking about it and Naomi Osaka and like all these really brave athletes saying like, this is not normal, Simone Biles. Like it is not normal to be in pain, to be an emotional bit, you know, and to be asked to perform and blah, blah, blah. Great. So also another blah, blah, blah. But what if we even widen that out and we say, this is the human experience, right?

Like, we're all just players on the stage. That's Shakespeare, folks. Like, we're all in some form being asked to conform, to fit in, to present ourselves, just to try and exist as very, very cognitively aware and very primal creatures, like walking around with, like, buildings and shoes and computers and, like, you know, all these things.

So this experience is obviously very specific. And when you hear Allison talk about it's very, very specific, but these are the things that we are all experiencing. And some people may not need to get in touch with what it feels like in their stomach and to like meditate on that. But we all get to have our experience, right? I mean, I know people who just go through life and they're like, I only feel angry or sex. Is that not an option? Well, this is almost the whole point of us starting this. was that how do we break through to people that say your current experience might be

slightly different than what it could be? And that just because it's Tuesday today doesn't mean that you have to have every Tuesday be that level of stress, anxiety, fill in whatever the descriptor is. What comes to mind is that from one angle, I agree with you, that if it were just a matter of reference in terms of, you know, well, I don't care about this quality of life. I'm fine with it. Then like, okay, to each their own.

But there is also an argument for the tremendous physical and emotional and mental impact that it, that disconnecting from your body has. In terms, like, it could range from, you know, experiencing insomnia or fatigue or unexplained physical pain. You know, you can develop all of these different conditions. and if you don't see the mind-body connection and you think they're totally separate, you might not understand that something going on mentally is actually deeply intertwined with your gut and digestive issues and vice versa. You also, you have some really interesting certifications kind of from an educational perspective. Like you've really done, you've done academic work in this area,

which I'm very, very curious about and like that could be its own episode. But, you know, when you think about kind of Western versus Eastern approaches to health in general, you know, the Western solution is kind of like take a pill, you know, shut it off, shut it down. You know, and cognitive behavioral therapy, which is a wonderful modality, it's not my preferred modality. But we kind of often CBT things, right? Like, if you think this, stop thinking that, do this instead. And that can absolutely help. I'm not knocking CBT. but the kind of stuff that you're talking about, which typically falls more under kind of an Eastern, you know, the web that has no weaver is the book that I'm thinking of, right?

The first kind of Western book introducing us to Eastern philosophy about medical health in particular. The kind of Eastern approach is it's all connected in ways that are really significant and important. And every body system, literally every system of your body, has a component of your psychological, mental, and sense. spiritual well-being. And I know that a lot of people probably hear this and they're like, yeah, that's not for me. And the fact is some people can live their lives and that's totally fine. But for me, for Jonathan and like one of the gifts really that like Jonathan has given me, is really being open to that as a way to frame your life. And I think some people might even say like, what are they even talking about with like feeling into your body? So can you explain

that kind of more from a practitioner perspective? Yeah, so let's talk about a couple of the concepts that dominate the Western biomedical frameworks. They are legitimate and there is utility to them. However, when you only use that framework to try and solve every problem, you often come up short. And then you're trying to tackle a problem and you're like, huh, the person's not getting better. One of them, like we mentioned, is that we separate the mind and body, right? So they are distinct parts and they have distinct processes and we miss the intersection where they communicate with each other. So, you know, Western says mind or body, Eastern or African or other traditions, many different frameworks say mind and body.

Another component to, well, there are so many, but a subset of that is we also tend to prefer the mind over the body. So we give logic preferential treatment. We give empirical data and hard, cold facts preferential treatment over, let's say, intuition or our subjective experience. And there are many reasons for that, right? Like, we don't have to go into all of those. So instead of just mind over body, what if we started thinking mind with body? because your body, as it turns out, is deeply intelligent and it houses all of your experiences, the pains, the joys, you know, every stubbed toe, every soft kiss, every moment of pure awe.

And it creates, you know, memories, it creates patterns and manners of being that if left to themselves, will just start running their own program. Your body has a mind of its own. Exactly. So your mind is running one story. Your body might be running another. And obviously, that disconnection and contradiction can create some conflict and some turbulence. So a little bit maybe on the nervous system and then just cut this out if it feels irrelevant.

When we typically talk about mental health in our society, we regularly, like you said, treatments like cognitive therapy, verbal communication, prescription medication, all of these primarily focus on the mind and brain. So while they have proven and worthwhile benefits, many professionals are administering them without including that full body awareness. And without examining the full context of a person's life, like their environment, the social, cultural historical layers, etc. Can you explain a little bit more? Can you explain a little bit more? People might say like, well, what does it look like for a practitioner to take into account the whole, you know, body? Like, what does that mean?

Totally. So we will just skim the surface. But being in a white body is a different experience than being in a black body. Being in a male body different than female body. The environment is in social factors, tax and corrode bodies differently. and different people endure stress and trauma due to their, you know, socioeconomic class. So your body is literally having quite a different experience than your neighbors, even if at the surface level you're at the same event, right?

So for one person based on my history, I might say, oh, that was not my cup of tea. And to another person based on their history, it might actually be a traumatizing moment for them. So just, you know, have a lot of compassion for your experience as well as everyone else's. So when you're in a therapeutic setting or we're talking about mental health, we might focus so much neck up that we are repairing the thought patterns. We might be repairing the brain function, yet we're missing out on developing that critical awareness of what's happening in our nervous systems. This is true science. and what you're talking about is the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system. So the technical component of what you're talking, because, again, I always try and think of, like,

what's the skeptic going to say? What's the person who's like, I have no idea what they're talking about? The skeptic speaks like that. But the notion that when we talk about knowing what's going on in your body, you can regulate your blood pressure. You can regulate your breathing, your heart rate. You know, I mean, you've seen me have an allergic reaction. Like you remind me you have to breathe because the more agitated you get, the more it's causing the hives to come out. Like those are some examples.

Like this is science, people. Yes. Your brain is paying attention to the cues in your body as well, right? So it's registering when you tense your muscles. You know, it clocks when you're subconsciously turning your hips to face the door because you want out of a conversation. It feels when you breathe more slowly and downregulate your system. and these cues help your brain discern your current state of being. It's like, are we okay or is something potentially wrong?

Something's potentially wrong. Oh, I thought you were asking me. So, yes, so with the nervous system, when you miss out on this awareness, you're missing the opportunity to know how to work with your body to find relaxation and stability in life, right? So you can negotiate different settings and situations and have that resists. that buoyancy where you're like, I got this. Otherwise, you might be continually triggered or overwhelmed,

and you'll cycle through the same physical reactions. And for me, it resulted in me feeling like I was stuck in a rut, feeling like my body is working against me. When I just want to go do a really cool performance, but this anxiety attack is like changing, you know, the quality of my singing and now people are making fun of me. And now I'm going to remember that in the next performance and I'm going to spiral, you know, all of these different things that once you start learning how to listen and understand and you bring your body into the process of healing and transformation, you know, if you don't do that, you're missing this essential part of who you are and actually what you need to feel better. And once you tap into it, oh my gosh, like talk about life transformation.

This is, I feel like the right time to talk about also the connection between sexuality. And I'm not just talking about sort of what, yeah. I'm not just talking about like what any of us identify as. But I'm talking about that we all, no matter what we identify as, have to or get to, go through a process. And for some, it's easier than others. And for some it happens earlier than others of understanding your heart's desire. and your body's desire and how it then can can meet with the expectations of our culture, our religion, our family, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you had a very specific experience and, you know, I'm not going to be like, tell us what it was like to have a crush on a lady.

Like, that's not, you know, that's not what we do here. But what I... It was rad. What I really think is so interesting and important about the way you've chosen to see. to speak about this, you know, however you want to sort of frame it is yours to do. But what's so interesting to me is that when you've talked about your sexuality, you've also spoken about the multiple components and nuance involved in the decisions we make about who we want to be intimate with. And that doesn't just mean sexually because there's all sorts of intimacy. There's

intimacy with ourselves, with our friends, with our higher power, right, with sexual partners. But You've talked about that like, I mean, this really blew my mind because I don't think I've ever heard anybody speak about it like this. You said there's there, I grew up with, I'm paraphrasing you, I grew up with complexity with the men in my life, with the father in my life, with the father figures in my life. I grew up with complexity around being owned by other entities, right? And I love that you don't separate that from the way that you feel and how you want to love. Because I think it's so important that these decisions, right? What people claim are decisions that we make, right?

They're not isolated, you know? And I love that you own that all of those components go into sexuality. And that's not to say that people make a choice and can't you just unmake the choice because God wants you to, which is not my perspective. but the notion that sexuality and intimacy is extremely complicated. And yes, for some people it's not, I'm happy for them. But for a lot of people, it's very personal and it's very complicated. And you've chosen to be really public about it. So I guess I'm curious sort of, you know, with the audience that we have of a lot of people

who are really trying things out for the first time psychologically and emotionally, what can you sort of tell us? Because I think a lot of people don't understand what it means to say, I'm attracted to humans. And sometimes they're assigned males at birth. And sometimes they're assigned females at birth. And sometimes they don't identify as male or female. So can you talk about that?

Where to start, right? Well, I think you touched on a few of the factors. And I want to maybe like tidy up from my experience, how I might voice them. and because I think it's easy when someone hears a person talk about complexity with male figures and complexity with, you know, upbringing or whatever to kind of jump to conclusions and say, oh, it was, it was a reaction to trauma. Right. That's what made you the way you are.

Right. And so that, I made sure when I went on, I embarked on this, you know, wonderful adventure because my faith in that form was such an essential part of my day-to-day value system and my devotion, you know, everything centered on this spiritual formation and development. Because there was a very clear no to that being okay, when I tell you, I went on the deepest and darkest research. project I've ever done because I didn't want to get it wrong. My life was on the line. Eternity was on the line. And so I, you know, sought information from my therapist who did have a contemplative mystic and Christian orientation, though she can work with, you know, clients of all

persuasions and worldviews. I ended up asking her, you know, you know me better than anyone else on this planet. Like, am I just doing this because I'm, I want to be experimental and nonconformist because someone else has owned my name and likeness and image my whole life? Which is a great reason, as far as I'm concerned. Am I doing this because it's a response to trauma and I have, you know, daddy or mommy issues? Am I doing this because I'm exposed to artistic communities where this is prevalent and it's normalized? So if I were to grow up in Ohio, maybe I would have never done this. am I doing it for X, Y, and Z? And one by one, we explored them.

And interestingly, along the way, you know, it was like, well, one, the attraction itself isn't changing. So I'm still going to have to figure out what I want to do with that. And what moral compass I will be employing to decide, you know, do I choose a life of celibacy? Do I find a, you know, a different faith tradition and look like I'm just quitting an ideology out of convenience, also a great option. So over time, you know, I was unpacking these things and feeling them in my body as well because

I was, I was dating, you know, both a man and a woman, you know, at different times, sometimes overlapping. And with a woman, I was like fully enrolled, emotionally, viscerally, and it just was a different kind of authentic intimacy that, and I felt totally accepted. has a lot to do with the singular human as well, not just gender or sex. And then with guys, you know, yeah, there was something meaningful there as well, but it really depended on the individual and blah, blah, blah, blah. We both blah, blah, blah. It's great. What I would say as people are exploring, one, you have to place love and wholeness at the center of this, you know, exploration,

because at least that will anchor you. And when you're trying out different things, you're, or you're contemplating different things, sometimes you start questioning your sanity, you question all of it. So if you can just have an anchor point in love or wholeness, health, well-being, hopefully that gives you a little bit of a foundation and some guidance. Two, you're going to have to be your own ally and your own support system because everyone around you is going to go through their own reaction and process to this

information from you, right? So your community might shift. For me, my faith community no longer allowed me to be a part of them. And I obviously was like, okay, now I'm in greater need than ever. And I'm more isolated than ever. This is rough. So there's, you know, the outer response. And sometimes you'll also immediately find people who you're like, whoa, we really resonate.

You actually see me and understand me and accept me and embrace me. So you got to be your own support system. And then three, there is an inherently mysterious part to this, right? Like sexuality, humanity, all of it. If we are fixated on certainty and trying to know everything and getting it right all at once, we will not only probably fall short, but we also might stop ourselves from that curious exploration. So go into it, you know, bring your,

values with you. You don't have to like toss everything away and say it's black and white. I was once this and now I'm that. Like let it be an ongoing fluid experience. And if you feel like you've gone too far, then retreat. Like if you feel like you're ready to try something else, then explore it and know that you don't have to internalize everything as a fixed part of your identity. You can put on the hat of a concept and dance with it in your mind and see what comes up for you. And you might go, huh, yeah, that's totally not me. Or you might go, we might be on to something. But setting yourself up for success includes that compassion, that flexibility and that internal support system. Without it, it's tough enough. Where is your God now? Because, you know, I come from a

a religious tradition and a culture that has a very fluid, like, there's, like, a lot of names to God, and there's, like, a female presence of God, and there's a male presence of God. Like, it's all the things. It's like, for me, it's very flexible, mystical, and, you know, like, I, God is nature. God is all the things. And, like, I can't imagine. I literally cannot imagine what it would be like, you know, to feel that the way that I am is not, you know, welcomed in a particular community. So, you know, I always say, like, God is not the

problem. Humans are, you know, like religious structure, the patriarchy, all of the things that contribute to what we think of as organized religion, that's not God, right? That's our best efforts, it's our best efforts historically to control people, to manage them, to help them, to support them, blah, blah, blah. So where, you know, to me, like, God is above all of that, right? Above, below and inside. So where does that rest for you now? Like, do you not have a relationship with kind of a religious, like, entity or community,

or did it have to morph outside of a structured community? Or is it just not a thing? I will speak as candidly as I am willing. but I do tend to stay fairly private about it because I'm aware that everyone comes to this conversation with such a different reference point that in an effort to explain myself, I know that it's still going to be interpreted through so many different lenses and it's like, ah, so what I will say is during this time, I got to also take a step back from Christianity. and not just, you know, the broad term Christianity, but particularly North American, westernized, California, that church Christianity. And I started learning through, you know, a mentor that concepts like individualism,

which, you know, is kind of more of a national identity, still influenced my Christianity. militarism, capitalism, all of these different isms, racism, influenced my faith. And that was really hard to grapple with at first, because then I was like, okay, so I thought these were the core tenets, and I thought these practices were the things to do.

And now I'm like, hmm, is God in these practices or is God, you know, kind of transcendent And like we were just kind of my therapist gave me the beautiful image of like a finger pointing to the moon. And if God is the moon, we're just obsessing over the finger. And meanwhile, the finger's like, no, no, no, I'm pointing at the, I'm pointing at the moon. Hello. So, you know, maybe I got obsessive about different customs and different interpretations. Whereas now, after deconstructing a lot of that, it really, really opened me up.

It expanded my understanding of faith, of God, of Christianity. I started looking at the historical movements that influenced the church. You're smiling because I know you have to. So, you know, when people listen, sometimes they're like, oh, you just threw it away or you're doing it because of X, Y, and Z. And for me, I'm like, no, no, no, no. I promise you, when your soul is on the line, you end up learning way more about it than you did in Sunday service. And so I also think we come to the table with faith. And sometimes, you know, God or whatever Godhead, figure head for us is filling whatever that, the biggest gap in our lives.

So if I'm, if I have no authority figure, maybe God is that structure for me. If I, you know, feel like I'm never getting my way, maybe God becomes Santa Claus, which is, you know, a pretty popular version. I call it the gumball machine as well. The gumball machine. It's like you put it in and get what you want. Right. Yeah. So right now, I will say I have been super cracked open and it is a much more expansive understanding of spirituality and faith.

I can still speak Christianese if necessary. However, there is a much broader view and it's informed by a lot more factors. I love that. I think that's really beautiful. Can you talk a little bit about your platform? and sort of the integration of mind and body that you've sort of taken on. Also, there's a lot of initials people, I'm warning you, BIPOC and LGBTQIA Plus. You have a platform that specifically is about different kinds of bodies

and different kinds of people being able to move their bodies in ways that are authentic and in particular focusing on the queer community and people who are allies. So talk a little bit about sort of the formation of that and how, I mean, it really does combine so many of your talents, so much of your, you know, kind of stature, but also this new position you have in the world as a person who really has taken all of the, I mean, you're like literally the embodiment of the integration of mind and body and kind of everything you do. That's, thank you. That's really kind. So movement genius is my sisters in my platform online, and we create movement classes.

that help improve mental and emotional health. So the basis is the mind-body connection. And because we examined the market and we examined who is being overserved and underserved, we recognized our limitations with our identity markers and immediately sought after, you know, the different clinicians and core team members and founding faculty who could speak to different experiences

and what it would be like to feel better in your body. If you look this way, if you look that way, if you have experienced this, if you live in this body. So at the core, the easiest way to describe the platform is headspace for the body. We're bringing the body into healing. We're bringing the body into mindfulness. If you need a three-minute reset, we have those videos. If you need a 10-minute video at your desk with just some somatic-based stretches,

We have those. If you want a 45-minute class where it's mindful movement and you're starting to examine the story that you embody every day and you start to try on maybe new movements and to see what that feels like to take up space or make space or, you know, understand that, huh, when you do this position, you actually end up triggering that certain thought that always comes up. And maybe if you counter that with a different position, you can actually, you know, shift your state of being. So it's, yes, there is this mind-body connection component, but at the core, if you're just simply like, I need to feel better and stress and anxiety are ruining my life, you can just log in and take class and it's there for you. That's incredible. I had an experience online where I was doing workouts on this website, and they had some Tai Chi classes.

And I always, I always like see the people in the park, like the old people in the park. And I'm a person who like rarely stops moving. Like even in my sleep. Like I'm just, I rarely slow down and stop. I'm like a very, it's a thing. Anyway, I clicked on this guy and I took a handful of classes and I was astonished at how difficult it was to make those slow deliberate movements. And this guy's laughing. And it brought up like kind of a churning feeling.

Like it felt uncomfortable. Like, and I was like, oh, there's information here. So that's just a really like layperson's example of the kind of stuff you're talking about. Like we had Alan Gordon on who is a TMS mind-body syndrome specialist. And anyway, and we had him, he was my former therapist. I now work with a colleague of his, but they do specifically kind of trauma-based somatic work. And just the notion of like when I would lay down, when I do lay down, like, my shoulders are up here and I'm like all tensed up and like,

that's the way I attempt to go to sleep for like 44 years. That's what I did. Like, okay, I'm ready to sleep. Go. And just like learning, again, like that's just an example from a total layperson of like, oh, there's a way to relax into your body. So that brings up two thoughts. One of them is we design our classes so you can literally show up exactly as you are, whatever mood you're in, whatever energy. Because for me, I had the same experience where it was like, and now we relax and I'd be like, mother-of-f, no, we're not going to relax. You know, and I don't want to. And that makes me more anxious. So no. So our classes are, hey, like you said, it's information. And we're not, this isn't a one-size-fits-all destination. So I'm not trying to get you to this

perfect state of equilibrium. For you in that moment, what do you need? How can you become aware of your body and what's going on? And then maybe invite a little flexibility to shift from where you started to where you might be 10 minutes from now or three minutes. So, you know, that's one thing is just so people know it's not like, you know, Tai Chi is an incredible modality. And I actually hope that we have a couple different series to offer soon on the platform that are Tai Chi or Qigong or, you know, a variety of different modalities. I vote that you should invite Maim as a guest Tai Chi assistant. Oh my gosh. This is going to be Tai Chi for the extreme type A.

That's like my competitive yoga. I think there's a whole brand that I would spearhead of competitive yoga. Like that's how I do yoga. That is so American. That is horrible. It is. I mean, sorry. It's true.

But you support me in my growth. I can feel it. I totally do. Yeah. Saying horrible was my own issues. No, it's totally fine. It's to take it in. It's really interesting that when we, you know, trigger the fight, flight, or freeze response,

when we examine other animals, they have this built-in system where they kind of shake off that threat response and they complete the cycle, right? So they are no longer traumatized by that event and they don't carry that chronic, you know, trauma. with them everywhere they go. Science moment, people would be like, rats don't experience trauma. Yes, they do. All animals have a specific trauma response. And there is, there's a shivering that they will often do either when they're startled or after a traumatic event.

And there's, I mean, there's really, there's fascinating research, you know, fortunately and unfortunately to try and see, does that experience then impact their behavior? So there are actually ways that we can study this in other animals. and with humans, it's a much more elaborate system. But, you know, as someone who rocks and needs movement, like, I totally get it. What's beautiful is that something as simple as, you know, simple movements. We're not talking about elaborate performances. We're talking connecting to your head and gently wiggling side to side,

then going down your body and scanning head to toe. You can actually release some of that stress and bring yourself to a state of, you know, calmness. where you complete the cycle and, you know, no longer carry with you that pain or that stress like you might have if you stayed frozen. So if you're someone who is constantly frozen, you know, there's an invitation to try some of these grounding techniques or these simple movements that just complete the cycle. And, you know, once you start training that muscle, then naturally your body is going to create a new pattern. and hopefully, you know, it shifts your overall embodiment over time. You could completely extrapolate that out to verbal communication of emotions, right? People who are people who feel paralyzed, right, in certain situations or people who historically can't find their voice, right?

Or something's wrong or they're uncomfortable or they're in a sexual situation and they literally feel like I don't know how to articulate this, right? there's this notion of like there's a place where you can process through to be able to be embodied as a human. Like that's and that's, I mean, it's all part of it. And this really is just, it's a beautiful invitation to understand the story that you embody in your mind as well as your body. And it's, you know, we all have narratives that are driving our day to day decisions. And if you can just create a little bit of space to try to try to try. to try some new behaviors, then you free yourself to have different options in life paths, in relationship dynamics, in, you know, career decisions.

Like what we're talking about is ways that don't require expensive gym memberships, expensive products, elite retreats, and like super inaccessible concepts. We're talking about you, your mind and your body, as you are right now, empowering your self to live the fullest life so you can make your greatest contribution or, you know, do whatever the hell you want, honestly. I love that. Are the classes open to people who don't identify as queer or LGBTQIA plus or BIPOC? Okay.

But yeah, yeah, just making sure. It's for everyone. We're just making sure that we're building inclusively at every stage. And honestly, just even the look of your site is so beautiful. It reflects so much what at least, I mean, I grew up in Los Angeles, so like I'm a city person and my family's like New Yorkers. So like your site really reflects the America that I grew up in, you know, and the world that I see when I look around. It's people of all different shapes and sizes and colors and oriented. Like it's just people. It's just beautiful, awesome humans. Yes, totally. Yeah. So please check it out. Send us messages because it's going to go directly to my sister or myself. Like, We don't have this huge team yet. So if you're like, hey, I love this class, can you do more of them?

Let us know and we can make more. Alison Stoner, you are just like, you're a really, she's like a magical creature. You're a really, really magical creature. This was so much fun. We definitely, I mean, we could have her on again. We could talk about so many other things. Also, it got dark where you are. It's like we took you from the day into the night.

Thank you so much for talking with us. This was really awesome. Such a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Also, I'm just going to do a. spontaneous thing here. If your listeners want to try a month free of Movement Genius, I'll get you a discount code or the proper link that you can add and you can try the classes.

Give us your feedback. Like, we're, you know, we're a new company. Thank you so much. Really an honor and a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you. Likewise. We raised a very lovely daughter. We forgot the Janet Jackson. I didn't forget. I did. I was just hoping you wouldn't bring it up. We are. a part of the rhythm nation. Did you notice? Say when you just said off camera.

Oh, I wanted her to do exercise with you and make you cry. Why do you enjoy making you cry? I don't enjoy making you cry, but you're very in touch with your body. And she was speaking Jonathan. I think you do like making me cry. Jesus. She was speaking Jonathan. She's totally, I mean.

Maybe we should have an expert on about why people like to make other people cry. That's, I mean, I'm not just saying that I like her because I feel like, like, she reminds me of a lot of like the way that I think. I just think she's extremely well spoken. So well spoken. Well, I mean like, if you're listening to this, Alison, we are very impressed with you. No, I mean like, I don't mean to be like, I'm impressed with the way her mouth makes words, but she's just like, she, who speaks in numbers? She does. In numbers. Like, first, like, here are the three things. Oh, you love a list. I asked her a question. and she's like, all right, here are the three points.

And then she's like, bitch one, bitch two, bitch. Like, here are all the things. When did you start blah, blah, bling? That's like the first time in how many. Next will be yada yada. 50 episodes. I have no idea why I started blah, blah, blah. Here's a funny question, though.

Like, think of how people dress, right? And think of the preconceived notions we have about how people dress, right? Like, if people didn't know what you look like, right? And they were to say, like, okay, I've heard. Jonathan talking. How would you think Jonathan dresses? Like, I wonder how accurate people might be, right? I mean, about all of us, right? About the cars we drive, the clothes that we wear, right? The things that are important. Like, am I a manicure person? No. I was thinking early on in our conversation with her, like, what an amazing thing that we get to meet this person? I would have never, I mean,

I might have interacted with her, but we're very different. No, we're very different generations. Like by the time she was born, I was leaving the industry to, like, go to college, right? Like, when you think about, like, just where we are on the planet, in the universe, like, I had that kind of, like, moment talking to her of, like, this is so cool that we're all in this room with Scott and, like, we're getting to listen to this. And Valerie's listening in. Like, we get to listen to this person, like, talk so much about her heart and her experience in a way that, like, we got to learn so much about her.

Like, I just would have kept talking to her. And I just think it's really cool that this podcast has allowed us to talk to so many interesting people who want to go deep. And yes, many of them have struggled with eating disorders, with alcoholism, with addiction, with trauma, with abuse. But maybe those are the people who have done the work and really want to share what they've experienced. Like, that's what you and I wanted. Anyway, I just felt it all come together with Allison. She said something to the effect of like the purpose. Well, she said two things.

One is born to pursue a problem that she understands, which is a great. Holy, that was. That's a great one. Put that on a bumper sticker. It's a little bit long, but maybe double stacked bumper sticker. Do people see how hard my life is? The other thing is that. Double step you.

Let's have a vote. Who has the harder life? Let's have a poll on the internet at Bialik Breakdown on Instagram. She said something to the effect of finding people who see her. Oh, yeah. Who understand her and who resonate with her. Yes. A lot of people spend time with people that that isn't the case.

Sure. And it's extremely draining. And I think when we find those people, we're blessed to have found this platform and this way of interacting. And each other. And each other. and it's such a great gift to be able to find people who, even for a moment, are able to understand and that feeling of being able to be seen deeply and understood deeply is such a great privilege. And also, even those of us who come from homes where we felt love, you know, or where our parents did their best, some of that work does have to happen when you start coming into your own as an adult, you know. And for many of us getting into therapy is it's a hugely different experience.

experience, you know. And for others, you know, finding 12-step programs or finding, you know, ways to deal with addiction or eating disorders. It's just, it's really. The goal is to understand ourselves and to be seen and understood by others. So we just figured it all out. We did. All right. Jonathan, anything else we should tell the folks? Do we have an ask why I'm anything? Uh, we do. Ask my am anything. Yeah. Amelia asks, what do you think of the theory that if we act the way we want to feel, then the feelings will follow. Oh, Amelia. What does neuroscience say about this? I mean, Amelia, this is it's like to fake it till you make it. Well, so, I mean, I don't mean to go biblical, but this is actually,

let's go, let's always go biblical. So this is actually a, it is a concept, it is called na sevinishma, we will do and we will hear. And this was actually something that's, I mean, it is. It's Old Testament, and it was recited when the Ten Commandments were offered to the ancient Israelite people. And the idea was it is in the doing that the true understanding comes. Yeah, a way to look at it is kind of fake it till you make it.

Your brain needs practice, especially for new things, and especially when we're past the age of one, two, five, you know. there's a pruning process that happens from the time you're born. So like the moment you're born, you start to die. Sorry, people. And that pruning process then becomes the template for which we kind of like go out into the world as, you know, neurological beings. When learning a new skill, and that can mean an emotional or psychological skill, repetition is important.

Engaging a lot of different modalities as you learn it is important, meaning incorporating movement, incorporating creativity, incorporating different ways of learning that new skill. And again, speaking psychologically as well. So there absolutely is science to training your brain, just like you train the brain for movements, right? Let's say you want to master, you know, a flip in gymnastics or something. You don't just like go ahead and try and keep falling and hurting yourself. You learn all the components of that movement so that your brain starts learning all the pieces

and where they fit in so that you can eventually incorporate it. it's really the same with emotional and psychological experience. Amelia, I love this question. And yes, there's also a mystical quality to it, not just if you're Jewish or like the Old Testament, but this notion that fake it till you make it, you can act yourself into right thinking. We like to say you can't think yourself into right acting or behavior, but you can act yourself into right thinking. I like that. I mean, take an addiction as an example, right?

You don't have to enjoy not drinking if you're trying not to drink. All you have to do is not drink one day at a time, right? And with time comes clarity, comes understanding, comes the feelings that are left over when you don't do that thing. That's when you start understanding and being able to truly change behaviors in a way that stick, you know? Great question, Amelia. Thank you. If you want to ask my many thing, you can do so at Bialik breakdown.com. That's BIA.

L-I-K. Breakdown.com. If you haven't already subscribed to the podcast, you can do so anywhere you get podcasts and check out the YouTube channel. Click the little bell notification. Ding.

So get the notification about new episodes. That's what you do. Also, we have an Instagram page which we're really trying to give some love. So go give it love, tell a friend. We're going to hopefully be more active on it. So yeah. That's at Biolik Breakdown.

From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We will see you next time. Brick down she's gonna break it down for you she's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two Fun fiction one and now she's gonna break down