Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Angela Matusik: Reinvent Your Career, Creative Contentment & Branded Storytelling

Episode Date: August 12, 2021

Angela Matusik, Head of Corporate Brand Content & Creative at Hewlett-Packard, breaks down the impact of brand storytelling on society’s capacity for mental wellness. She details her impressive trajectory from an unstable childhood to becoming an editor in the fascinating era of 90’s print media, and eventually reinventing her creative journalism to pivot into the world of corporate storytelling. Mayim and Angela discuss the ways in which brands shape societal values, behavior, and conversation and the responsibilities these corporations have to maintain integrity and address mental health. They examine the importance of young women having access to mentorship from successful women in corporate positions, the effects of isolation on adolescents created by the digital age, and how their hyper awareness as mothers shapes their views of the media.  Mayim and Jonathan explain the values in recognizing how your past impacts your present and finding creative trajectories for one’s unique skillset in another round of “You Might Need Help If…” BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you scroll through the people I know on my feeds and it's like, look at what my husband got me for Christmas or, oh, I'm so exhausted from this and you're just like, who are you? And it's become this macro thing. It's the five-second version of the aspirational magazine. Even, it's even less than that, I think, but yes. Hi there, I'm Myambialik and welcome to my breakdown. This is the place where I break things down so you don't have to. And it's my and be all this breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two.

And now she's going to break down. Break it down. And today we're going to be breaking things down with Angela Matusick. Who's Angela? Angela is the head of corporate brand, content, and creative at Hewlett-Packard. And you might think, what does that have to do with mental health or mental wellness? Angela has a very interesting story, and she's essentially a storyteller in her capacity at HP. She and I met because we did some press for a project of short documentaries called Dear Future Me,

where 12-year-olds wrote letters to their future selves and 18-year-olds read the letters that they had written to themselves when they were 12. And when I talked to Angela originally about her motivation for this project, I could tell there was something regarding mental health and regarding the way. way we see ourselves and how important it is, especially in these times that we're living in, to present a cohesive, really picture of the journey of becoming ourselves. And I really wanted to talk to her more, so she's going to join us today. But we can't start an episode without me telling you about the person to my right. Who joins me all the time? Hi, Jonathan.

That was a big lead up for no introduction at all. Hi, Ma'am. I think we should mention that H.P. is currently not a sponsor of the show. HP is not a sponsor of the show. That's not what this is about. And this is not a branded episode. No. Although maybe it should be. We just happened to be talking to a person who, speaking of our neighbor from the north,

Jonathan has actually a lot in common with Angela in that both you and Angela are trained and organically creative people who have taken your passion for storytelling and your understanding of technology and the impact of the digital world and really created a career out of it. And I especially want everyone to kind of hear some of the reflections that you and she will have together. So I'm very, very grateful that you're here, Jonathan, today, especially, but every day. Thank you, Ma'am. I'm very excited about this storytelling episode with Angela because I don't think a lot of people understand the amounts of storytelling that brands do. Well, and also how it impacts and shapes what we see.

And I remember when we first started hanging out, this was something that was very confusing to me. You would send me commercials. And I was like, why is he sending me commercials? This is such a strange method of communication. Like, am I supposed to want to like buy the thing? Well, there's two very different types of commercials. There's the above the funnel and the bottom of the funnel commercials. These are new words for me.

And all that means is there's the commercial that tells me. there is 25% off this thing that I need to buy right now from this particular website and it's meant to drive sales. Right. Those are marketing assets. Buy this. Buy this. This is on sale. So that's one kind of commercial. What's the other kind of commercial? The other type of commercial is this is what we stand for as an organization. See, but I see that as propaganda and manipulation. Meaning I fear that. When it's done wrong, that is correct. Why should we care about this here? When we're talking about mental health, can you explain in as concise a way as possible why and how this impacts mental health and wellness? I know that it does because you've told me before.

The first is that brands are content creators now. They're shaping the conversation. They set expectations for how we should behave. They set expectations for what we should value. Got it. When a large multi-billion dollar corporation says that climate change, racial equality and closing the digital divide, which is what Angela talks about as. some of the core pillars for H.P.

Those are mental health issues. Those are massive mental health issues. That was your first example. Number two is that if storytelling fundamentally is part of our mental health. Got it. How we make sense of the world around us, what we value, what information we focus on, are we optimistic? Are we pessimistic? Do you know yourself?

Storytelling and having your story reflected is a way to actually understand who we are. Our mental health is not just about what goes on between your ears. It's about what we take in. And it's about what we take in from people in our environment. But it's also about what we take in from the world that's presented to us. And in many cases, the world that's kind of like shoved down our throats, right? It's not just about what you're scrolling on. It's every commercial.

It is the products that we buy. It's a complicated world, Jonathan. Anyway, let's welcome Angela and she can tell us all about herself. Break it down. Welcome, Angela. It's so nice to see your face and to get to talk. to you again. Yes.

I'm going to embarrass you and read your bio. But also, I want you to correct anything that's wrong and just talk me through this. So the title that you hold at HP is you're the head of corporate brand content and creative, correct? That's correct. That's the title. However, you actually come from, you were at InStyle, correct? Yes, I was at InStyle for my formative years. How long were you at InStyle?

The first stint was in the 90s, which was a very exciting time to be there from 94 to 2003. And then I returned again. I think it was in 2012, perhaps, around then. Monthly traffic grew 150 percent, correct, in the time that you were there? And the social audience went from 4 million to 9 million in the time that you. I'm not saying that that was literally like, this is Angela, but that was under the time that you were there. Yes. And it really speaks, I think, to the time we were living in, too, where social media was taking off and the whole nature of publications just shifted so drastically.

You also, in addition to kind of your digital universe, you also worked in print. Now, for those of you who don't know what print is, those are actual magazines that you hold in your hand. And a magazine is like a book, but the pages are shiny and they smell kind of good if it's brand new. but you were at places like, I mean, Harper's and obviously in style, Domino, Budget Living. You were editor-in-chief there. You also have taught digital publishing at the School of Professional Studies at NYU. You're also a speaker. And in your current iteration at HP, you worked on a project that you and I got to sort of do some press around,

which was the Dear Future Me Project, correct? That's correct. Before we get into kind of your past, just let us know because, you know, when I heard about Dear Future Me, I was so excited to get to talk to you about it because it touched on so many aspects of sort of just what I see is an important part of the human experience, which is having perspective. And I think if nothing else 2020 taught us that hindsight is indeed 2020. So tell us a little bit about how that project came about and sort of what your idea was in producing it. Yeah, absolutely. And I have a lot. And I

to say just before I joined you today, I decided to watch the films again, which I haven't done in a few months. And they seem, I love them even more now. So I'm the producer. They were made by these wonderful filmmakers, Sarah Klein and Tom Mason from Red Glass Pictures. And they came about because in March, or I think it probably was in April that I heard about this, we were in lockdown. And my daughter was given an assignment from her middle school to write a letter to her future self. So 12 years old and you're writing a letter to yourself when you're 18. And it just sounded, I was so intrigued by this and we sort of probed around the teachers a little bit and learned that this was a longstanding tradition that had been happening for 25 years at the school. But here it is,

2020, you're in lockdown and you're graduating from school and you might be getting a letter from your former self. They get mailed to them when you graduate or you have to write a letter during quarantine. And it just seemed to me that there would be something there that would be not only wonderful to capture about the ritual of writing a letter to yourself, but what that meant during this bizarre time that we're living in. Is that typically something that you do? Like, I think a lot of people hear that you're head of corporate brand content and creative. And, like, is this like, I'm going to, I'm going to ask from, like, a person who was raised by two English teachers, like, to be just a teacher. And then it was a scientist. And I was a scientist. And I was a

child actor, but I know so little about the corporate world. Is it like they hired Angela to make movies? No, I know enough to say that's not why you were hired. But was this kind of just something that, like, is in the wheelhouse generally of what you do? And it just sort of touched you personally. Like, how did that fit into what you do every day? I guess you could say that because I was hired to be something that we called it brand journalism. That was the title that I was given when I first joined a few years ago. And that means that we take a storytelling approach and we bring journalistic values to corporate storytelling. And I've always loved film. And, you know, so I don't want to, I like to tell stories in many medium. So we actually, we make a print publication. We do

digital articles. And I just always wanted to be able to tell stories through short documentaries. And so the first year that I was there, I came up with another series. called the history of memory. And that is about people whose lives were changed radically by a printed photograph. And so that idea came about because it's like you think about HP. We do many things. We make printers and computers.

But, you know, one of the sort of foundations is the power of print, right? You know, you sort of alluded to it earlier when you were like, remember what printed magazines are? Well, yes, we do remember what printed magazines are. And they still have an important place in our world. in our life, as do images. Like, look at the wall behind you.

There's probably a story behind each one of those images. I was just lucky that I had a boss, the chief communications officer, Karen Kahn, who supported storytelling and recognized the need for the sort of human emotional connection with an audience that brings the brand values to life. And by that, I mean, it's like humanity, innovation, you know, respect of your personal journey. And this is why it does relate to mental health and mental wellness. The human brain has not changed just because technology has changed.

But I really love how you get to kind of incorporate this into your work with a company that is known for kind of taking information and presenting it in ways that are digital but are also still able to touch you. Before I turn it over to Jonathan, I thought it would be funny if I surprise everyone and say the real reason I wanted to have Angela on is because I want to know why InStyle wouldn't feature me because it was very bad for my mental health. But all joking aside, I do want to hear a little bit about your experience at InStyle because InStyle was one of those magazines that came out after other magazines had already like kind of been out for a while. And I remember when it came out, it was like, ooh, it's a new. It was. It was a really different and kind of, and for people who don't know what in style is, you may be like, what is she talking about? But I remember that when in style came out,

it was kind of like the first fresh look that many of us had had into a magazine that did feature, obviously, style, but in a way that was much more accessible, I think especially to young women. First of all, I have to say, I love that you brought this up because this is like this part of magazine history and just like cultural history. Oh, this is why I was put on antidepressants because I've been style. No, I'm just kidding. It was founded by an amazing woman who I know you would love if you ever met her name Martha Nelson, and she would probably apologize to you for ruining your...

I didn't have enough clout to make those decisions in the 90s. So I was working at Harper's Bazaar in the early 90s. Right during grunge, it was like really taking off, right? And so all the models are really skinny, this like heroin chic that we were living through. And this new magazine came out and the idea of it was so radical. It was no models, only celebrities. Who really are just models who are on TV. But okay.

Right. But it was radical because it was like they were a little bit more real than a model. You know, for many people, especially young women, you know, I think a huge component of, you know, where we place ourselves is sort of what we see reflected. And, you know, when I was a teenager, you know, I was on Blossom. I was on this show. And, you know, I was a teenager that was still allowed to look like a teenager. I didn't have false lashes. Like, no one was wearing hair extensions.

If you didn't have breasts, you wore clothes that look good on you if you didn't have breasts. And if you were busty, you wore clothes that accommodated that without making a whole statement about it, right? Like, we didn't really think that much. There was no social media when I was a teenager. I mean, there were no cell phones. It's like it wasn't even a thing. There was no paparazzi following, you know, young people. Like, my life was very, very different.

So what I think in style really captured, though, was a shift in our culture, you know, a shift in our understanding of what we aspire to, you know? Like, I knew more about what like Connie Chung and Barbara Walters looked like, you know, as a teenager than really anyone else, right? My Ambialx Breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a little bit of. doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan.

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Superpower used to cost $499. Right now, it's $199 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional. additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention Miami-Mialics Breakdown to help support the show. I wonder if you can speak to, especially because you were, you know, a young woman at that time. You're still a young woman. But I wonder kind of what your notion was, or if there was a kind of collective notion from a, from a press perspective

in terms of, you know, are we presenting something aspirational? You know, what does that shift look like? So I wonder if you can just speak to that a little bit, either from your personal experience or your professional experience, really living in kind of consumer celebrity, you know, publication. Well, I mean, so what we are talking about right now is the 90s, right? And so that was before everything went digital and print was still ruling the world. And, you know, we cared a lot about newsstand sales and we would put people on the cover who, We knew would move magazines. It's like, it's a part of a business that you're running.

But, you know, I actually sell, like, I always brought in who I thought were the quirky people. You know, like, I did a story. I remember I did a story on Ricky Lake when she had her home birth, you know, and I did this, like, great interview with her and we became friends. And I would always find the edges of where I always find the edges, wherever I am that's like, I like to push out to the boundaries and, like, find the space that I can fill that nobody else is in. So I did that as best I could at in style while it grew and grew and grew into a fashion magazine, very focused on Hollywood. But then I left and I sort of moved into this other area and I came back when digital had taken off, right? So I feel like there was like this shift that happened that went from moving magazines to moving clicks. And it changed the type of person that we were featuring and who became successful and popular.

And when I left in style, it was actually during 2016, which is a pivotal year for our world and our nation. It was right before the election that I left publishing. And we had been under a lot of pressure to continue the business growing, which with the digital shift publications were struggling for so long. And we had to, and we, you know, you mentioned the numbers about growing the website audience. Like, how we had to do that was really difficult. and not something that I really believed in either. I mean, the more we would put up galleries of pictures of the Kardashians, the higher our traffic went up.

And I started to sort of go against the things that I believed in. And it was right around that time, I remember that the election was coming underway in 2016. And I remember, actually, Barack Obama gave a speech about media. It was in March or April of that year. And he was almost imploring media to not do the easy thing and to not constantly write about the thing that you know gives you clicks and that you know gives you high ratings.

Obviously, that was ignored. It was so hopeful. It was ignored, yes. And, you know, and I still think that even today, like if you were to look at the paper today, like, what are people writing about? It's very much driven by that impulse, you know. So media companies went from, you know, putting the spotlight or uncovering things that were interesting to just sort of swarming around this thing that we knew was like the safe area where people would just want it to be, wanted to keep on clicking.

The microwave changed our lifestyle. Plastic changed our lifestyle. You know, the pill, all these things, right? But this feels like it changed our capacity for mental wellness in a new way. Yeah. Because it was all of a sudden like we blinked and the mirror became distorted, you know. It's like we weren't looking for. for ourselves anymore. We were looking for what's next, what's better. We built businesses

trying to capture people's impulses. And, you know, I think it was, I remember too before I was back at In Style and Digital. I worked at People and People.com. And I was also at I Village, right? So I was at people when the website, it was there, but it wasn't what it is now. And it just exploded. And I was the style editor. And then I did pets and babies. Very exciting. But, you know, I think it was always, at both in style and at people, we tried to focus on the optimistic stuff. And so there was like a natural, like we would always say we would never want a picture of somebody in style or in people that we wouldn't, that if it was us, we wouldn't want to see that photo. And I remember when we first started publishing stuff in the magazine that you had to buy,

like, I remember I was a young editor and my boss would be like, she would hold things up to me and she'd be like, would you pay $150 for this? An unnamed magazine, which is not people, did a what's in your bag. And I was like, what's it? Like, lint and the pennies I pick up off the floor. But my publicist was like, this is a really big hit, Miami. Can you please, like make an effort? And I was like, okay, okay, I'm making effort.

So then I thought about, like, what would be in my bag if I, like, actually carried a bag like girls do? And, like, if I went on, like, a plane ride or something, you know, or like, what would I put in my bag? And I had a prayer book. My tiny travel art scroll sitter made it into a national magazine. And I remember the publishers of Art Scroll, which is like a basement in Brooklyn, was like, you put our prayer book in that magazine.

Thank you. It's funny what you were just saying about your purse and how you had that. No, I want to just talk about this for a second because I feel like that used to be like this rare thing, right? where it would be like, oh, my publicist wants me to look inside my purse now, so I'm going to stage this thing for the magazine. Now, we live in this world where people are constantly doing everything and documenting everything constantly, right? So it's like, I mean, I don't know you scroll through the people I know on my feeds, and it's like, look at what my husband got me for Christmas, or, oh, I'm so exhausted from this. And you're just like, who are you? And it's become this macro thing.

It's the five-second version of the aspirational magazine. Even, it's even less than that, I think, but yes. Anyway, it's just because the holiday, this is what all of December feels like for people like me. It's not that I'm not happy for those people. It's not, and yeah, I'm a little bit envious because people are like, you're just jealous. Yeah, part of it is envy and that sort of, you know,

phomo. I think that's what the kids say, that fear of missing out. but part of it really is about feeling like you don't fit that image and what that does, you know, to you. And I think that is a huge part of 2020 because nobody could even like go out and do relatively normal people things for most of the year. So I think even more so we got so wired in. You know, we got so it was like just plug it into my brain. Like whatever's on Instagram, just like, yes, I want it. I don't have it. I know. I need it, let me buy it. I'm not asking you, like, is this why you left? But the work and the kind of life that you've chosen and the place that you are at HP, it's got to be different for your mental health. Like, I'm curious what that's like. Or do you notice a significant difference from kind of working in that? Or is it just the difference between print? Well, no, it's very different. And there are things that I miss about publishing and media.

I mean, mostly it's working around, it's like this combination of I miss working around other people like me and people who have my background and my training. But then when I'm at HP, I am definitely different from everybody else that I work with. And there's power and something refreshing about that. And I take a lot of what I learned in journalism, which is curiosity, and applied this sort of optimism. you know, we always just make, we don't want to cause anxiety. So, I mean, that's been like my goal through all of the work that I've done. And in style, we didn't want to cause anxiety. And here at HP, I think working at a company that's based in science and in innovation,

it's just inspiring. And I work with so many people that do all these things I know nothing about. They're so much smarter than I am. And I just get to interview them all the time. And I poke at them. And I'm like, what are you working on? What is that? How does this work?

And I ask all these questions. And I'm like, that would be an amazing story. And they're so excited that somebody wants to help tell their story or bring it to life. You know, like we're doing stuff with microfluidics now and developing antibodies. Micro what? Wait, what was that word? Microfluidics. That might be the word of the day.

Word of the day. Wait a second, Angela. Do you mean microfluidics that refers to the behavior, precise control, manipulation of fluids that are geometrically constrained to a small scale at which surface forces dominate volumetric forces? Is that what you mean? That's a multidisciplinary field. It involves engineering, physics, chemistry, biochemistry, nanotechnology, and biotechnology. That is microfluidics. I didn't know that's what it was called, but that's exactly what I was thinking.

Word of the day. Yes, so this is this amazing technology that HP has, and I think it developed from printing because they became such experts in liquid print and thinking about colors and pigment and things, that they've developed this technology, which I can't really, really speak about with authority that really allows you as a scientist or a chemist to look at droplets in like the smallest way possible. This technology and the things that they're making at HP, it goes far beyond like anything that we even comprehend and it's so exciting for me. But the other thing is that corporations do have personalities and they have purposes

and the way HR communicates with our 40,000 employees around the country. Yeah, I mean, around the world, around the world, 40,000 people around the world. And how we, it's like, it's almost like this family member. It becomes the corporation. And it's really interesting to see the attachment that employees have gotten to the company to and our CEO who speaks to us directly Enrique Lores writes, you know, really meaningful emails to, all of the company during moments of great conflict or trauma that we've had this year.

And there's something about it that feels like we're all in this together, which I can't believe they've been able to make that work and happen at a time when we're all in our homes. We're all stressed out. Nobody's working together. And it's really interesting. It really does. It warms my heart to know that there are people, there are 40,000 employees who also get, to some extent, you know, I'm not saying it's a perfect system, to be treated like they matter,

you know, like their mental health matters, you know, because we can so easily feel part of a machine. And that is something that I'm interested in from a mental health perspective, because that's the fear of a capitalist society is that we get lost, you know, that way. It's easy to see how media companies shape culture. But what you were talking about, about corporations having a personality, having goals, having a purpose, never before have all corporations contributed to the content that's out there with the convergence of media going digital. They're expected to have perspectives. They're expected to reach out to their employees. And when you're especially when you're talking about institutions like HP,

which are these large organizations with huge workforce, global workforces, I'm curious from your perspective, you know, to talk a little bit about how they're constantly trying to deliver on that purpose and not only within the corporation, but outside of it, I think a lot of people don't realize how much storytelling goes in. Like those emails from the CEO get passed over by many, many writers and communication strategists. Yes. Luckily, I don't write those, but yes, I really believe passionately about corporations or businesses creating stories to help, you know, connect with their customers, their consumers, their audience. And what I love, about the work that we're doing is that it has a quality and a respect that in some ways

I was able to elevate it compared to what I was doing when I was at a mass media company because I'm not being, I'm not selling advertising. So I'm not worried so much about drop off or click through rate. I'm not worried about, my job is not to put products in shopping cards either. I speak at it from a very top of the funnel. They call it top of the funnel. At the very top of the funnel. So it really is speaking to this higher purpose and brand culture and personality and identity. And we're able to, we pay our writers well. We don't publish a huge volume of work. We are very specific about what we do. So it really is about quality over quantity, which is the opposite of media companies, at least many that I have been at. And there's like just

a respect. And, you know, it's funny because you hear people within the company are always talking about how they talk to their customers and their salespeople. And they were talking about this word prosumer, right? And like, somebody was saying, oh, you know, we have to talk to the prosumers. And what does that mean? It's like, even though you're a professional, you're still a consumer and you still drive a car. And, you know, and now those lines are blurred because of the way we're all living and working. And I've always thought that's my approach to storytelling. Like, you can't just people are like, why don't you write stories for CTOs or business decision makers or these like corpority sort of marketing terms? But you write stories or you create stories for humans.

It's like it doesn't matter who you are or how much, you know, if you're an important person who spends a lot of money on products every year or if you're somebody who's just thinking about buying a new laptop one, it doesn't matter. You're still a person whose time is really valuable. And if you're going to create a piece of content, they have to get something out of And it might be an emotional journey or a self-reflection or maybe it's a good piece of advice. But that's something that you can sort of bring to the storytelling within a business, I think. Okay, wait. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm, y'all are in a different realm than I am.

What's a prosumer? It's a professional consumer. Oh. I'm guessing here, but the difference between like I'm buying 10 HPs or 50 HP products for my business, my small business, my medium-sized business. That would be a prosumer versus a consumer, which is an individual user who's just buying one or two products for the house. I think you're right, Jonathan. This is where the divide comes from. And I'm huge on actually brand storytelling and the opportunity they have at that top of the funnel level because they are not driving sales.

And there's a huge amount of marketing. It stops becoming storytelling. They sort of co-op that term at the marketing level to put items in. in carts and to drive sales. And they're all about clicks and rebates and driving purchase. But when you sit where Angela is at that top level and you don't have to adhere to specific click metrics and you don't have to adhere to driving sales into a specific channel, then all of a sudden you have a freedom that actually doesn't exist anywhere else in someone who is paying real money to create content. And many brands shy away from that. Many brands go

super deep into it and sort of blur those two lines where you think about a Gatorade or you think about a Nike and you think about lifestyle brand. You think about even Apple does, you know, they have all the best directors want to do the next Apple spot because it's amazing. It does tie into mental health because anytime you're able to spend a ton of money and ton is relative, obviously, but it's not cheap to make content, especially filmed content. It's not cheap to have writers working and articulating your brand's mission. And to take a stand and to create that content, it does shape the world around us. There's no way around that. My favorite medium is this short documentary that we've been able to do a few of them. And I have had people ask me like,

oh, like, what about the integrity or how do you make sure that you're, you know, that this is supposed to be a documentary, but yet it's paid by a brand. Don't people need to know about that? So I always defend this in a few ways. First of all, everything is very clearly labeled. We don't try to like, we're not trying to sneak something by people. You always have to be very clear about it. And then the other thing is if something is being paid for by HP and maybe we have an, you know, like we say, okay, we're going to make an optimistic film about kids writing letters to their future selves. Like it's not that different from another company, whether that be like Netflix or a Fox TV

or, you know, like there's corporations, big, big corporations that run things in a specific way with personalities and purposes behind all the content that you see. And at least when if it's coming from a brand that's saying like I've seen like great stuff from like REI for example does great branded content. Obviously they sell products that you need to enjoy the outside. But, you know, if all they're doing is to say just go outside and we're going to tell stories that help you want to go outside. Like you're going to click on it and you're going to see something that's going to be inspiring. And it's coming from a good place. It's not, it's not duplicitous.

And, you know, documentary filmmakers, they have points of view. They're, you know, a documentary filmmaker is not an unbiased person. Like, they bring their goals and their points of view to filmmaking. So if you're watching a film, you're watching the director's point of view anyway. And, you know, as a brand person, I always like to try to get out of the way of the director so they can just do their thing. But this is also something about the convergence of channels. traditionally media companies have tried to create a separation between their channels because they want HP to buy ads on their networks or their channels. They don't want you going out and creating your own content because potentially you could put that if it's good enough and it's successful enough and there's enough of it, you can create your own channel.

And then all of a sudden you don't need people to be on Netflix to come to amazing documentaries or three or four companies come together. And so there is more than ever a confluence and convergence of channels and opportunities. I had no idea this was even possible, but we've been able to put our films on streaming services. So, and it's like, so like, you know, we're a company, we make hardware, we make these technology products. Well, we also make some products that are the digital films that you can purchase if you go to Amazon Prime or iTunes. And, you know, they're not, we don't put a lot of money to promote them. It's not like we're, if not investing in the sale of our films, but they're there. And they're easy, you know, you can find them and watch them and stream them.

And it's sort of like, it's just a little bit of mind-blowing. It's like, you know, because there might be this potential to make money back or to help cover the costs. Because believe me, it's not easy and it's not every company that is willing to invest in this type of like top of the funnel storytelling that isn't about selling products, especially now that we're, you know, that everything is going to be a little bit precarious economically for the next year or so. Like,

budgets are tight. And I think it's always a challenge to quantify, to be able to explain and clearly show the benefit of these things. And, you know, it's something that I work hard at as well. This is almost being a storytelling advocate within HP to constantly remind people of the importance of these things. I've been that advocate in a 250,000 person organization. And a lot of times.

you get, well, how is this going to sell our next contract? Like why? But the conversion, I don't understand the metrics involved. It takes a very specific set of CEOs and executives to understand it, to value it, and to also give you the room to operate and not just say, but our next cloud data service product is this. And we really need to communicate that to people. You're absolutely right, Jonathan.

Another point, just I'm curious about your perspective on like the roles of organization. who are doing this type of storytelling to address mental health, emotional well-being, where, you know, the personality or purpose could be humanity, innovation, personality, or a personal journey. But everyone's personal journey, especially now, is complicated by mental health. We talk about this statistic on the show that one in five people are touched by mental health struggles or addiction. And so I'm curious if that ever comes up in your conversations at HP and to say, like,

Do we, you know, what role do we play in as a company that is continually producing products that are contributing to consumerism and helping push technology forward, which has its own ramifications and impacts, influences on people? You know, when I talk about our company's personality, we have some core values in our sustainable impact work that we really are focusing on. And it's, you know, stopping climate change, fighting for racial equality and justice. and narrowing the digital divide. So there are these things that we are very focused on that we sort of, that's like our wheelhouse when like how are we helping make the world a better place. But as I was talking about it earlier, our core mission at HP is keep reinventing. And so when you ask yourself, what does that mean in some ways?

It's all about mental health. It's about this idea of being resilient. And this is why these films that we just make, the Dear Future Me films are so wonderful for this time and why they're so HP, but yet they really affect, you know, this positive look because it traces the journey of 12-year-olds writing letters for somebody they might be when they were 18. And then we also filmed 18-year-olds reading letters that they wrote six years ago. And the overwhelming message that you get from watching these films is that you never know

when your world is going to change. and everything's going to be thrown out the window turned upside down. But ultimately, even these kids who are teenagers know that those moments help define them and help make them a better person. And so I think that that message, that idea of like standing up for a challenge, being resilient, trying a new approach to things, which is also a very scientific approach, really can apply to mental health. And I think that we sort of support.

And so we also support very much at HP, like being who you are and being your true self. So if you combine those two things together, it can be pretty powerful. I think the idea of innovation as it relates to mental health and tying in this notion of I'm going to try things differently, I'm going to fail. I'm going to rebuild. I'm going to build resilience is something that, like, I spent eight years in the innovation and design world. And I hadn't totally articulated it like that before.

So I quite like that. If I were 15 years old and I got to hear a woman like, you talk, I would think, like, wow, you know, like this is a person who's really has reinvented a career because you lived at a time when that was necessary, right? But you have so many interesting skills, you know, that really, you know, when I think of who I was, you know, at 12 and at 15, it's this kind of like mentorship and access to women like you that was really missing, you know, and is missing for a lot of young women in particular. I'm curious what the rest of your journey has been like, you know, and you can elaborate as much or

as little as you'd like, but, you know, like, what is your life like? That's a big question. Okay, let me think about where I begin to unfold that. I am married to my husband, Chad Hunt. We've been married for 13 years. We have a daughter that's 12. So a lot of what I've been thinking and talking about is we talk about in style and body image. Like, this is stuff that I'm hyper aware of. And I think about all the time as a parent and what my daughter's looking at and how it might affect her and how she's developing her sense of self and confidence is something I'm really aware of. And I'm really proud of the life that we have. It's not super glamorous. It's pretty simple. We have a really small family, but it's stable. And I work with great people. And I mentor people all

the time, especially young people at work. But just hearing you speak made me want to do it. Again, I had been a big sister in the past to a young girl. Can you be my big sister, Angela? I would love that. You know, people, I think people see me and they see this, you know, confident woman and they're like, wow, she's just got it all or something must have been handed to her. But honestly, like, it was a hard slog. Like, it was a hard slog getting here. Like, I had a tough childhood and then, you know, and I was just really determined and I worked super hard. And even making the pivot from magazines to a corporate world, it was not easy. I spent a year trying to find the right role and applying for a lot of jobs that I didn't get and waking up and,

you know, just thinking like, how am I going to do this? And I'm, you know, and I'm the main breadwinner of our family. So I have a lot of responsibility, health insurance, mortgages, things I need to really care about. And it was tough, you know. And I'm so fortunate. And I know how to, I guess I would say that I know how to count my blessings because I know what it's like when you don't have them. Life comes in bumps and waves. And I don't know. I'm in a good wave right now and I really appreciate it. And I'm an optimistic person by nature. What's that like? I don't know. I actually heard this great podcast the other day with, I don't know if I can mentioned another podcast. Of course, again. Terry Gross was talking to Michael J. Fox, and he just was talking

about his new book that he just wrote about being optimistic. And I really was relating to him. And he was talking about his life and his struggle with Parkinson's and just how he's able to get up every day and like this, whatever the low points might be. And I think for some reason, I have been, I have been able to be an optimistic person. I can almost always see a path forward or always see a way out. And I don't know why. you know, maybe it's like my immigrant family roots or something genetic in me. But if there was some way that I could instill that in other people, I think it would be really helpful. That's a really beautiful answer. And also not trying to pry, but again, thinking of if a young woman were to,

you know, to get to hear you, what was your childhood like? I mean, you don't have to go into any detail you don't want to, but just so we can know, like, you know, even with a broad brush, you know, I think a lot of people do look at, you know, you or, you know, and say like, oh, she must have had it easy. You know, do you want to share? I mean, just share a little bit even about sort of how you got, you know, from childhood to where you ended up. I was raised mostly by my mother, who was a single mom, but she did get married a few times. And so we, there's just a lot of movement and change in my life all the time.

And, and I, you know, I don't really think that my needs, there were bigger needs than my needs, like the needs, like clear needs, like shelter, care, whatever. Like, they were more important than, like, do I like the school that I go to? And so I felt like, you know, I was ping ponged around a lot. And I would go from my, to living with my mother to living with my grandparents who were the stable force in my life. So many people have that story. But I saw substance abuse too from family members and, you know, it was just, and we never had anything. Like, we, I went to a, you know, I lived in Niagara Falls, but our school was terrible. I remember seeing like a rank of like the schools in New York State and Niagara Falls was at the very bottom.

So I had like a terrible public school education and, you know, and had to pay my way through college, all that sort of stuff. But whatever. Now it all seems trivial because I, I, I, I honestly think that people today and kids today are facing a lot bigger stuff in so many ways. I appreciate you sharing that. It's funny that you said that. It made me very emotional when you said that about, you know, shelter and food and that being more important than, you know, do you like where you went to school? And I was not raised with money. People had it much worse. My mother grew up in poverty in a tenement house, you know, in the Bronx during World War II.

So it's all about, you know, kind of levels. But what you touched on is a really important one because I say this to my children and they kind of like make a joke of it. Like, oh, you want us to have the same shitty childhood you did. But the notion that like there was not an option to turn on the heat. There was not an option to like wait for more hot water. Like this is what you've got deal with it was a little bit how many of us were raised. And it does. It brings a kind of resilience and it gives a kind of perspective that many, especially entitled children. you know, are lacking. But just to kind of like bring it all home, like, that's exactly what I described to Jonathan about when I first got to speak to you and talk about your future me. It was about a concept of perspective. And I love that like, at least in my crazy brain, like I made this connection for Angela, or at least that like that makes Angela make sense to me is that you have a very, you grew up. Like I had a, there was like a feeling I had that you have a notion of the important. of perspective. And it's just so interesting to see, like, you know, the thread of where that comes

from. You know, something I've been thinking about because even since we made these films or since we last spoke, even, you know, my kid still hasn't been back at school. But she's, so she's 12 years old now. And I'm so fascinated by this age, you know, I think we talked about this a little bit before. Yeah, we both have a 12. So, yeah, we get it. You know, but my, my kid, she has changed so much since we made this film, Dear Future Me, she's in the one with the sixth graders briefly, and we shot that in June. And I look at her now, and she's so different. And I thought, what's happening to her sense of self that she is forming who she is now in this really crucial adolescent time, but being isolated and home and everything is digital? And in some ways,

I was thinking, like, she doesn't have the peer pressure that maybe we all had and we went to school, you had to walk down the hallway or worry about how you're changing in the locker room for gym class and, you know, all those anxieties. She doesn't have any of that. So I feel like is that a good thing? Because like maybe the boundaries are off and she's like just self-defining herself, like what makes her happy without that outside influence? Like it'll be really interesting to see. Well, she's my kid is happy too. Like she's a, you know, and she's she seems like she's just coming into her own. And so I'm so impressed with her. And I'll be curious to see what this does to the generation that's going through this right now.

At least every other week, just like over dinner, I'll say to the boys, like, you're going to remember this year for the rest of your life. And my 12-year-old is like, mom, stop. Stop talking about it. And it's like, I don't know if they get it. And it's, I do. I want to document it. I want to, like, I already feel like I should have, you know,

recorded them every single day talking about their reflections because it's like it's so important what is happening to them and what is happening to their generation. And I also need to just like chill out about it. We want them to understand so badly what's happening to them, you know, and what this process is like so they don't have to live through what we did. Angela, thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you so much. This is such a treat. I think Angela is a very interesting story. Even just this one person, I got to meet a person who works at a corporation who isn't like a corporate shark. Like this, she's a journalist. She's a writer who had, you know, kind of a rocky upbringing, right? And like, she worked at all these magazines because

like, that's what all the quirky girls did. You know, they, and you, you hear about these women who worked at these magazines who were like, but I was quirky and I was like, why am I selling this image? So to think of that that woman then went on to work in a corporate job where, like she said, She doesn't even really know what a lot of the corporations doing. I just think it's so interesting that she got to bring her creative self, you know, to this project and to this company. And there's so many aspects of like, you know, it's not like a mental health. This wasn't our typical mental health kind of like episode. But I think the notion that we create our own reality, whether that's, you know, changing where you come from and becoming a writer and a storyteller and getting to work in that world or seeing the mental health impact.

of being part of a consumer media corporation, and then going to work at a place where she actually feels cared for in a corporate, you know, environment and gets to be her creative self. That has to be so good. It has to feel so good. I just really think she's interesting. That was the first episode or the first interview

that you didn't ask about her childhood. Right. I had to come back. It always comes back to the childhood. You wrapped it up at the end and then you got a lot more insight into her. It always comes back to the childhood. It's the formative years. It's how we're shaped. That's our early story.

Well, speaking of which, like, I was thinking of myself at 12. I was studying for my bat mitzvah, because that's what you do when you're 12 in my world. And I was living, you know, in this, like, crappy rental. It's where I grew up. I had lived there since I was five years old with my brother and my parents and my dad was always frustrated. He was a public school teacher, always frustrated. just always his back was hurting because the union was fighting with his principal about that. Like that was my childhood, you know, and my mom, I had just started acting at 12. But I had no idea I was going to, like, have my own TV show. That wasn't what I thought was going to happen.

I thought I'd get a couple commercials, like, you know. So I was 12. I was very interested in, like, Jewish camp. Like, I loved going to, like, you know, weekends with my, you know, my friends from Hebrew summer camp. I was not popular. I had a strange sense of humor I liked to do weird voices. Like, I was a weird person.

If you had asked me at 12 what I was going to be like at 18, I mean, my life changed dramatically between 12 and 18. Like, I became a TV star, which I know is not a normal experience. That's what all 12-year-olds should expect. That's right.

No, but when I think about, you know, my development as a person, like, I mean, at 18, I had like, barely hit puberty. I was a very late bloomer. So I had this like extended childhood. I probably at 12 thought that at 18 I'd be like a full-fledged woman. Like I would look like Galgadot. Like that's what I think 12-year-old me would be like I'm going to look like a full, like I'm going to be a stunning woman. I'm going to be a woman. I was not. I was an overgrown child at 18. I wish someone would have said, you know how weird you feel?

Like how you feel like you're so different. Like that's going to turn into a crippling depression. and hang on to your hats and glasses because this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness. That's what I wish someone would have told me. What was 12-year-old Jonathan like? What would he have thought? I know the answer to so many of these questions I'm about to ask. What would 12-year-old Jonathan think that 18-year-old Jonathan would have been like?

12-year-old Jonathan was really into school. I struggled, but I was, like, getting good grades at that time. I was popular. I was in a very small school, so it's like... decent-sized fish in a tiny, tiny pond. Were you tall? I was pretty tall. Was that attractive to people?

I wasn't really thinking about that at 12. Did people say you were cute? I got a handsome or two. I just wanted to play sports, be with my friends, and I grew up, my father is an accountant and ran an accounting firm and was very focused on good grades, getting, like, how are you going to make? Productivity.

How are you going to make money? Right. And so I thought I would... It's never too early to start. Not sitting in this chair. I definitely didn't think... Also, my life changed drastically at 14. My brother was in a very, very severe car accident

with change the trajectory of my entire family. I at 18 was also extremely depressed for a variety of other reasons, which I, you know, spent years on packing. But, yeah, I think 12 was the last 12. and into 13 was the last years that I was like super optimistic and thought

the world was all just going to unfold beautifully and that I would find some fancy... That you were going to look like Al-Gadot? That's right. I thought I was going to look like Al-Gadot as well. I never thought I was going to be a TV actor. And so in terms of advice, I'd be weird to think about what type of advice

and to look back at that, but that would be a fascinating exercise. Oh, man. Wow. Also, woman. Oh, woman. There's no, you might need help if. I'm trying to see if I could stretch it here. You might need help if you've never thought about how your past impacts your present. Oh, I like that. You might need help if you can only think of one trajectory for your skill set.

That's actually an interesting thing that I would circle back to at 12 to be like, oh, you're kind of, you talk a lot, you're, you're. Oh. You like to say things with your hands. You're constantly trying to find, I had like little business ventures at 12 that I was, if I could say that, oh, you're going to take that skill set and repackage it 17 different times. That would be interesting. That's really interesting. Like, you know, the person that I was at 12 is really not significantly different from the person that I am now.

You know, I'm in a different shell. And I think as women in particular, our shell changes, you know, really, really significant. And, you know, giving birth is like a whole thing and, like, giving your body up to other humans to keep them alive really changes. But, you know, the core of who I was, like, I'm a very, you know, there are adults who are playful. I'm a playful adult. My favorite kind of adults tend to be playful adults. And, like, that was me. I was super athletic. You know, I ran track and I was very physical and I was like kind of like, try anything. And I was, I was a good dose of neurotic for sure. I was. very shy. Like I really like like the notion of boys, but like I had never been kissed. Like nothing. It was very like, you know, very puritanical the way I was raised. Just like now.

If you want to write a letter to your future self. Ooh. And send it to my aim. You can do so at biolicbreakdown.com. I will pretend to be your future self and tell you the things that you need to know. And Jonathan and I will do an exercise off camera where we pretend to be 12 and write letters to our 41 and 45-year-old selves. Dear Jonathan, it's not going to go anything close to the way you think it might now.

That's what I'm going to write to you and you're going to write to me at 12. I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was definitely a different episode from the way we normally do things here. But just breaking down all aspects of the human experience, really. And today was a really special one. So thank you, Jonathan, for going on this journey with me. Thank you, Maya. From Myr-D.?

From My breakdown to the one I hope you never have. We'll see you next time. It's My Ambiolyx Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down.