Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Ask Mayim Anything #1

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

It’s an Ask Mayim Anything episode! Mayim and Jonathan do a deep dive breakdown of listener-submitted questions surrounding addiction, family mental illness, sleep, EMDR therapy, and childbirth trauma. They discuss potential long term effects of sleep deprivation on mental health, the correlation between phone addiction and binding anxiety, and give advice for those who have loved ones struggling with substance abuse. We’re also joined by a very special guest who shares her experiences with the increasingly popular EMDR therapy and how it changes the organization of memory.  In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness by Peter A. Levine, Ph.D. Al-Anon website: Al-Anon.org BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's say you have a friend and you think they should get divorced, right? Let's say. The truth is you actually don't know if they should get divorced. You might say, I think you are suffering so greatly. I don't like how she treats you, whatever it is. But you actually don't get to make those decisions for people. And even therapists, you know, make you like, well, why do you think you should leave them? Like, if I spend my life constantly, you know, looking at other people, looking at whether it's my partner, a parent, a friend, if we spend our lives looking outward, we are not.

not looking inward. Hi, I'm Mayam Bialik and welcome to My breakdown. This is the place where we break things down, so you don't have to. It's Myambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. And today we're literally, literally going to be breaking down the things that you would like

us to break down. Welcome to a very special episode of Myambiolix breakdown. It's an Ask Myam Anything. It's Mayam will answer. the things. That doesn't sound catchy at all. It's an Ask Myam Anything episode where we are going to take the questions that you have submitted and we are going to break them down. But first, let's talk to my favorite person to break down Jonathan Cohen. Hello, Maim. Hi, everyone. Jonathan is remote today. How you doing, Jonathan? I'm pretty good. Excited as always. I like questions. You know why?

Because so many times we say, if you want to ask Miami anything, you can do so. And then we list where they can do that. But this time, we're going to tell them to submit questions at Bialik breakdown on Instagram. And if they're not already following, they should do so. At Bialik Breakdown on Instagram. That's where we're getting the questions these days. And people have submitted a lot of, they're very curious. So do you mean they should DM?

Is that what you mean? Slide into Miami's DMs. slide into the Bialik breakdown DMs. Don't ask them at my personal Instagram page because it's much harder for me to keep track. With the help of Aaron and my trustee assistant Alyssa, we have, it's taken us a minute. It's been a big year, but it's taken us some time. We've categorized these and there's a lot of similar questions. We've tried to group those together. Today, here's just a taste of what we're going to be covering. We're going to cover a little bit on addiction, a little bit on on family mental illness.

Everyone's favorite. We'll talk a little about sleep. We are going to focus a lot on EMDR. There were a ton of questions about what is this therapeutic treatment that everybody, everybody's talking about it. I mean, I don't know about everybody, but a lot of people. And we got a lot of questions about EMDR, so we will talk about that as well. And we're going to throw in some fun facts because there were some really fun questions that we think are also totally they belong in this episode.

Jonathan, what? You're raising your pen. And also, if you think, wait a second, EMDR, I'm not interested in that. It is more than just EMDR because it goes to how we process our experiences and how those experiences impact us. It's a great episode. Also, we specifically are also talking about trauma related to childbirth, which again, even if you don't have a baby, never had one, don't want to have one, it's about what everybody's mom pretty much goes through.

I mean, the dads too. Coming into this world is very complicated. Dads too. Can't forget the dads. It's a really great episode. We're very excited to be finally answering your questions. I will do my best. Jonathan will be chiming in as well. Let's get started, Jonathan. Look, let's give ourselves a little bit of credit. We have been answering questions along the way. We've been including them. This is a deep dive into these questions because there's been so many. We can't get to them in every episode. It's impossible. So you asked, we are answering. Jonathan, let's get started. Here we go. Ask Miami anything. Yeah.

Just to kick it off, we're going to start a little bit fun and easy here. That's me. There's some fun facts. Okay. From Denise Jacobs and Belinda Bloom, hi, Maim. I just wanted to know if Jonathan sings the opening song to your podcast. This is a great question. It's a fantastic question.

They have never heard me sing clearly. The answer is all Canadians sound alike. Jonathan, tell them who is singing our theme song. It is Ed Robertson, a fellow Canadian from the Bare Naked Ladies, who has an amazing body of work. But I think the pinnacle is really this theme song. Bear Naked Ladies did the Big Bang Theory theme song. And we literally, we reached out to him and both through his love for his Canadian

brother. That's you, Jonathan. He had never heard of me. This is not for me. He did this tremendously awesome song for us. So, do you want to talk about the lyrics, how the lyrics were developed? Because our next question is about the lyrics to this song. It says, Ma'am, I love your show with Jonathan. My question, what does the lyric more fact than fiction mean in your theme song? It comes right after you mention of your PhD. Now, a good, good clarification here is that if people haven't noticed or they haven't stuck around long enough to the end, there are two

theme songs with different lyrics, one at the beginning of each episode and one at the end. And like every good music fan, this listener and this question asker has gotten the lyrics slightly wrong in her listening. Instead of more

fact than fiction, what is the line my name? So the question, what does the lyric more fact than fiction mean in your theme song? We'd like to Jonathan would like to start by correcting you. If I had read this question, I would not have corrected you. I would have just inserted the appropriate lyric. The lyric is actually one fact, one fiction, because what it says is she's got a PhD or two.

The fact is I do have one PhD. The fiction is that I don't have two. Is that right, Jonathan? I mean, you have one fictitious PhD I learned just the other day. You know what? I don't think that Ed Robertson knew. that I have an honorary doctorate from Boston University. But yes, there is one fact, one fiction in that song.

Those are our two theme song questions. That's fun. Helen Williams and Lynn Blackmore want to know. Tell us about the significance of everything on your desk. Now, I don't know about everything. We don't have time for everything. They're curious about a golden baby on the keyboard, which seems to be missing right now. So the gold baby is actually just on the keyboard back there

because I moved the keyboard. The gold baby is a It's actually Kevin Hart It's a baby doll of Kevin Hart painted in gold Which Jonathan and I won When we competed in Kevin Hart's Celebrity Game Show

We won first place It won me that gold baby The Ballplayer Bobblehead The Ballplayer Bobblehead is right here And that is none other than Sandy Kofax Jonathan, who's Sandy Kofax? He's a baseball player. You know what?

Just because you're Canadian doesn't mean you only care about hockey, but maybe it is. Sandy Kofx is a very famous Jewish player who very publicly and famously did not pitch on Yom Kippur. This is the holiest, most sacred day in the Jewish calendar. He was not a religious person, but he is a Jewish person. And even non-religious Jews often will not work on Yom Kippur. I would like to point out that he is wearing what my son calls his talis. his Talit, his prayer shawl, it's made of tape, but they put that on him. What else? The Medicine Bowl. That's a sound bowl. Jonathan, do you remember where I got this? You were with me,

I think. Did you get that to Miami? I did. I got this when Jonathan and I went to the Super Bowl two years ago. It was something they used. I had a very nice massage. And they used it, and I just, this fabric was something that the hotel used a lot. And so it reminded me of that time. And there it is. I'm not very good at using it. But, Okay, there's a couple other things I'd like to highlight. Is that okay? Yeah, let's do it. Well, there's like a smattering of fidget things because I need to fidget with things.

There's a palm from my friend Nancy. It's like a little sculpture, but it shows the different lines and like palm reading things. This is a little super eight camera. That was my dad's. It's just the body of it. And my dad, Blessed Memory, was a documentary filmmaker. And so I have a lot of his equipment. I have his bolecks over there.

I'd also like to point out this is a book that Jonathan and I highly recommend. It's called In an Unspoken Voice, How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness. It was written by Peter Levine, I'd say one of the leading experts in the field of somatic therapy and trauma. This was a book Jonathan recommended to me 11 years ago.

Anyway, so it sits here to remind me that that's kind of how we got here. What else? I think those are... Oh, those are... Those are the highlights. I have a llama made of cast iron that my children got me a couple years ago. I have a

tiny replica of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, which no longer stands. The only thing standing is the Western Wall, which is the outer retaining wall. There's a feather, there's some crystals. There's hand lotion that I can't bring myself to get rid of, but it's a little greasy,

so I think I should. Those are the highlights of my desk. The only other fun question is What is the mind drinking in every episode? She's not actually drinking it in this one. And it says it looks like there are little beans in the bottom of her cup. That is Jasmine Tea with usually almond milk. If I can get decaf, that's what I prefer.

It's been a little bit of a struggle. The things in the bottom are Boba. They are tepeoka balls. They're kind of like softer than a gummy bear. They are vegan. And I love them very, very, very much. I do half sweet in those teas. But, yeah, idle hands are the devil's workshop

and keeps my hands busy and, yeah. I would say that if there's one thing that maybe you're a little bit addicted to, it could be the boba teas. Or maybe it's just a healthy habit. It's hard to say. My MBialx breakdown is supported by superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office

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but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about. about them, make sure to mention Myambiotics Breakdown to help support the show. Gabby asks, Dear Maim, you've already talked to a lot of people with addiction and about their struggles and battles. What advice would you give to partners slash families of addicts? In my specific situation, my father is an alcoholic with the problem of addiction surfacing

worsening over the past few years. My sister and I no longer live at home, but my mom is still with him and struggles. I would really love your advice. Vice. Thanks in advance. Gabby. Fantastic question and one that's really, really important, especially as we know that people who are in recovery do really well when they have good support. And often the kind of support that addicts need, whether they are still using or drinking or not, a lot of times the kind of support they need is not the kind that we think they need. Many people tend to lean in, try and fix, solve, mend, explain, clean up messes. There's a

there is an organization that is directly an offshoot of Alcoholics Anonymous, which is not the only way for people to get sober, but the sister organization or the affiliate organization is called Al-Anon. I don't know why it's called that. It is for people who love someone who's drinking bothers them. That's the strict definition of Al-Anon is for people who know someone who's drinking bothers them. And sometimes someone having one drink can bother you. The idea is not that you have to qualify in a certain way or the person who's drinking bothers you needs to reach a certain level. This is an organization that started as the spouses of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous, they would get together. And while their husbands, at the time that AA started, their husbands would

do their 12-step program. And the wives, I think one of the legends was all the wives would, you know, wait in the car while their husbands were in at a meeting. And they realized we're all in these cars. We might as well hang out together. And people in Al-Anon are known as Friends of Lois, because that was the wife of Bill W. And Al-Anon has a website. There are virtual meetings. It is al-hyphen-anon.org. You can find a meeting. You can find information. There's information for newcomers. And what is involved in going to an Al-Anon meeting is you just go and listen. You don't have to speak. You don't have to identify as a newcomer. the ideas that you hear other people's stories and how they have best helped themselves to work on their own preoccupation, typically with the alcoholic.

If you were raised in alcoholism, there are many patterns that people raised in the disease often have. And learning about those and getting educated and taking care of yourself is often the best way. Now, you might be wondering, how do I get that person sober? That's actually not one of the things that partners can do. But often when the partners of people who are addicts start to heal and take care of themselves, what often happens is it gives room for the alcoholic to have their own experience and their own journey. I highly recommend going to al-anon.org.

They're absolutely our therapists who can work with you as well, but Al-Anon is free. They are self-supporting. You can make a dollar donation, a $2 donation, whatever donation you're comfortable with, none at all. Those meetings are free to anyone who wants to go. In Al-Anon, you do work the 12-steps with a sponsor, just like in AA, and that's a process of learning about you in relation to the people around you. I highly recommend that. And yeah, also, ACA is adult children of alcoholics. It's an affiliated organization. It's a 12-step program as well. You can check that out as well. You mentioned it briefly, but you want to talk a little bit about sort of like some of the common

issues that people with addicted families of addicts have. You said trying to think a lot about the addicts behavior, trying to fix things. Sometimes there's a hypervigilance that's associated with it, trying to sort of always be aware, like, oh, something that they do could be triggering the addicts drinking. Do you want to sort of give the sort of very general, it's everyone that has a unique story, but there are definitely common experiences? Yeah, I want to flag what you said, because I think it's important. No one can make someone drink. And I'm also going to use drinking to mean other drug use. I'm using alcohol as the, you know, no one can make someone drink. Drinking is the thing that people who feel the need to drink do so that they can feel better. It is a crutch. I do believe that it is a disease. Not everybody believes that, but I do believe in the disease of alcoholism. And again, you don't have to agree with me. I'm happy to do a whole episode on that. want to, but what often happens is we take on the behaviors of the alcoholic. I'm saying we in terms of the, you know, partners, children, or even friends, even friends. So I'm going to use we

in that sense, you know, the phrase in Al-Anon is we too can become ill. And oftentimes, you know, you'll hear from people like, oh, my alcoholic dad was a real hoot. It was my mom who was the problem, right? Or, and many people don't have that story, but untreated allanons can be some of the most difficult people that you will encounter. They can be angry, punitive. They feel unwanted, unloved, and alone. They will do things to get attention from their partner. My favorite thing to do is nag and complain and scold.

And that usually doesn't do anything except make for more conflict and strife. It is an elaborate process of learning. And I, you know, again, don't recommend doing this alone. This is a program that does work, you know, through the structure of a sponsor. But what you get to learn is that you are powerless over other people. You're powerless over people, places, and things. And that's mostly the strife that people who try and fix an alcoholic encounter is they think that they can control it. And we do all sorts of things to try and control someone else's behavior, whether it's drinking or not.

You know, I've made a life career, you know, of trying to fix other people no matter what. Like, oh, they're sad. Let me help them. They're this. Often what alcoholics need and addicts is. the dignity to make their own decisions and live their own life. And we don't know what someone's bottom will be. You know, there's a lot of emphasis in 12-step programs on a higher power, which does not have to mean God. But the notion that everybody's got their own journey in life, and I don't get to say what yours is. You know, a really good example is, let's say you have a friend and you think they should get divorced, right? Let's say. The truth is you actually don't know if they should get

divorce. You might say, I think you are suffering so greatly. I don't like how she treats you, whatever it is. But you actually don't get to make those decisions for people. And even therapists, you know, make you like, well, why do you think you should leave them? Like if I spend my life constantly, you know, looking at other people, looking at whether it's my partner, a parent, a friend, if we spend our lives looking outward, we are not looking inward. And it's, you know, it's a really, really, it's a very elegant and fascinating process. And I've heard a lot of couples in recovery speak. You can go online. There are speaker tapes and things like that where, you know, it's usually the wife, but the wife, let's say, who's not the alcoholic, she talks

about all the things she tried to do to get him to stop drinking, you know, like having more sex, having less sex, you know, drinking with him, not drinking with him, tearing him out of bars, beating up the women that he was sleeping with, like whatever it is. And ultimately, what got that person, you know, ultimately sober was them hitting their own bottom and having their own journey to sobriety. But when you hear these couples talk, it's like all the things that you think you're doing to help them actually just creates more really complicated attention, resentment, anger. And those are kind of the features of a lot of untreated Alinan's anger, resentment, fear, anxiety. And oftentimes also what Alon helps you do is learn how to be okay with loving

an alcoholic. You know, that's something they say. It's okay to love an alcoholic. You get to decide what kind of life you want, you know, and if someone is active in their disease and you don't want to be with them, that's also fine. But the program of, the 12-step program, you know, of people who know and love alcoholics is structured around working on yourself, taking care of your own anger, resentment, fear, anxiety, and finding solutions that work for you from a place of responding and not reacting, you know, and a lot of times when you're living with or loving an alcoholic, or even if you're friends with one, there's a lot, you want to react a lot. And you have to really learn to respond and take care of yourself. You know, you learn to put your

oxygen mask on first. The line that we've heard a lot of times comes to mind, which is finding where you begin and I start. I don't know where I end and you begin. That's, you know, it's a playful romantic thing, but it really is the definition of codependency. And there is CODA. There's codependency anonymous, but a lot of people who go to Al-Anon or AA learn about patterns of codependency that come when other people try and get you better. And usually it is because our sense of discomfort when we see someone suffering becomes so great that we need to not feel that way. So please stop having your pain. I mean, that's really what it is, right? I'm uncomfortable when you're uncomfortable. It's like the definition of codependency. And the principles of Allen on,

which you're just describing, this need to control the hyper aware of what someone else is doing, the thinking that if they did it the way that I think life would just be better for everyone, especially for them. Those qualities, you know, people with an active partner or a family member in an addictive state end up going to these rooms, but the learning and the teaching in those rooms applies to everything. It applies to work relationships and friendships and like this notion that we are the center of everything that is knowable in the universe and that we have all the answers.

it's a very draining way to exist, even if you don't have someone in active addiction. Oh, yeah. I mean, the principles of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, no matter what issues you have with God, with this, with the, blah, the notion of Alcoholics Anonymous is, I am powerless over people, places, and things. I'm powerless over it may be alcohol. I can only take care of my own life and my own issues, for lack of a better word. But I also should say that one of the things that is said in a lot of Al-Anon meetings, they say, if someone's drinking or sobriety is bothering you, you're in the right place. One of the main things that is very disturbing to people is they think if the person stops drinking,

everything will be fine. It often gets worse because they were drinking so that they didn't feel as shitty as they feel and doing the things they do when they hate themselves. Drinking makes them often forget about that for a period of time. So when you are dealing with someone even who is sober or dry, dry means not using but not necessarily working a program, your defect. You often become a more impossible person because I ask you to stop drinking. Why are you still an asshole, right? Is what a lot of people say.

Or you're still messy or you're still depressed or whatever it is. It's very complicated. It's why these programs exist for decades and decades and decades. You can replace alcohol and drug use here for almost anything. You can apply these principles of what we're, and also this is not an advertisement, you know, for 12-step programs, but the notion that you are powerless over someone else's behavior is true if they are mentally ill. It is true if they are a porn addict or watch more porn than you're comfortable with. It's true if they're a video game addict. It's true if they are, people say rageaholic, right? What if you're like, I have a parent and they don't do drugs and they don't drink, but I am terrorized by their temper. Yeah, it's kind of the same principle. principles. Sometimes people are what I call grumpy hollics. They're just grumpy people. Like, they're unhappy. I don't know what it is, but I want to change that. I love finding grumpy people and being like, let me make you laugh. How's that working for me? Not so good. It's very

exhausting. But yes, what Jonathan is saying is correct. And I will say Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon are designed to deal with alcoholism. There are many other groups that deal with the complexity that come, the complexities that come up, for example, in a difficult family. Mental illness can look a lot like alcoholism, especially if someone is non-medication compliant, you know, if they're suffering. Undiagnosed. Undiagnosed. Suffering, wreaking havoc. But in families with chronic illness, you will often see a lot of these patterns where the whole family is revolving around that one person and their needs. You'll often see it in families if you have an autistic child, or a child with even behavioral challenges

where the whole family's revolving around it, the other siblings have to either shut up or take up a lot of space. Sometimes they get into problems because they're wanting attention. All these things do happen. In my experience, the most simple kind of model to apply happens to be the 12 steps.

But again, there are a lot of other ways to get at this. Shane wrote us and said, I would love for you to talk about phone addiction. I struggle so much with having my phone around me 24-7. My phone is always on silent, which is really interesting. I have tried the usual things like leaving it in another room or setting up specific times that my phone will let me use it, but I always bypass it.

That's the thing. You can always, you have control. You think you have control. I don't like that it's the first and last thing I look at each day. I love your show. Thank you. Shane, I mean, there is so much here. I have a lot to say, but kick us off on phone addiction. I'd like to first say, you know, I like to save addiction, you know, for clinical things.

I don't know if I can diagnose phone addiction, but I'm happy to speak of it in the colloquial sense. I'm just like, that's just a disclaimer. You know me and my annoying disclaimers. When we talk about the word addiction, you know, what we're talking about, I'll give you the definition of addiction that, you know, like that Alcoholics Anonymous uses. Addiction is defined as trying to stop a behavior. And when you do, experiencing sensations, thoughts, feelings that feel unbearable, for which the only solution is returning to the thing. For those of you who are wondering if this applies to relationships and love and sex,

100%. 100%. That loop in your brain is very, very, very. very evolutionarily important and it's preserved and it is, there are aspects of it that are the same loop for nicotine, for heroin, for alcohol. That's that loop of addiction. What it is is it's a loop of kind of reward. You get something out of it is why we kind of keep going back to it. One of the things that I'm completely speaking from personal experience, because I grew up without phones. When I was in high school, there were no phones. When I was in college, we started to

have phones. I mean, I had a phone in my car, let's say, like mounted to the car when I was 16 for safety. But in terms of like frequent use of phones, it wasn't until my second son was born and he's 13. So about 10 years ago that I actually got a smartphone. So meaning I'm 46, you know, I spent most of my life without a smartphone. And what I've noticed is I've actually never talked about this. I'm going to speak from my experience. What that phone has become is the biggest anxiety binder that I know. It is more powerful than other things I've tried. I've tried things that are very unhealthy. I'll be honest. It is the most deceptive because, yeah, it's not cigarettes, it's not drugs, it's not alcohol. It's your phone. You need it. We come up with all the reasons

that we need it. For me, it has become, I mean, it had. I'm actually, I've been working on this actively for about a, I'd say about a year. What it has become is when there's any blank space, I pick up my phone. So what is that? That is, it's anxiety with a lowercase A. It is not being able to sit. It's not being able to sit in my head. It's not being able to sit with my thoughts. It's there is some, and even if it's not conscious, there is something uncomfortable in us. We are experiencing something and we want it to go elsewhere. And I know that people are like, it's just a phone. Why are you being so, you know, why do you have to make it like you do? And it's like, I've been hearing that since I'm like four years old because that's how my brain works.

Like I'm always going to go to the like, what does it really deeply mean? There's no white space in our society anymore. I remember it was probably four years ago. No, it was more than that. It was, it was closer to eight years ago. I was in Los Angeles. I was writing. and I broke my phone. And for like four days, I didn't replace it. I was at the grocery store, and I had phantom phone syndrome where I would reach into my pocket to get it

while I was standing in line. Until you remove the phone from your life for a certain number of days, most people don't realize how much space it's taking up. And I'm fully aware of the role of technology as a distractive force in my life, and yet I still participate in it. To wake up and read Google News, for example,

you are letting an algorithm program your thoughts. If it's catastrophic news, if it's celebrity gossip, I'm letting some other piece of technology tell me what I should be thinking in the morning, and that programs how I feel about the world. It decreases our level of, relationship to our internal world. We stop remembering our dreams. We don't have the same level of introspection and self-reflection. And I can say all that with all the positives already

acknowledged, the level of we're able to connect to other people and we're able to get news more easily that we need to and there's more information. But the trade-off that any time I pause for a moment, I'm going to go to this thing to get some form of mental input. will be seen as one of the biggest changes in mental health for our species that has happened in the last, and it's all happened in the last 15 years. Yes. What I was going to say, so the Yoda of this, you know, to speak to Shane's question, the Yoda of this is there is no try. There is no try. the only thing that is stopping you from following through is you.

And, you know, this is, you know, I think of the alcohol example because, you know, one of the things that addicts will often do is try and, like, change their pattern of drinking, and that'll solve the problem. Or, what is it? Only drinking on the weekends. Only drinking a certain drink. Or, like, I only drink beer. I only drink, you know.

And those are the things we. try and do to control it and we do the same thing with our phones. I do the same thing. Like I pretty much, like, I take that template of the alcoholic behavior when they're trying to break an addiction. Like, yeah, that's what that's what I do with my phone. And I do all the things that you've said. I have tried taking it out of the room. I've tried setting specific time. Totally. I've turned off all the apps. I bypassed it. I've done the same thing. And it says, I can't seem to do anything about it. So you can. But what it does involve is a little bit more understanding of why you're going to it in the first place. And some people can have a lot of discipline. I'm not one of those people. I'm not a

disciplined person like this. You know, for me, what I've noticed is the more I fill my life with healthier ways to bind anxiety, the less I'm turning here. I do need to force myself. And, you know, some people come up with a little reward system for themselves. Like for me, this really is. It's just where my anxiety can now go. And I feel bad for, you know, the generations that are literally growing up with this, like, priming for anxiety binding in ways that aren't necessarily helpful in the long run of your life. So one thing I would suggest is giving yourself a Sabbath, a phone Sabbath.

And, you know, obviously for traditional Jews who don't use technology, let's say on the Sabbath. You know, this is something that a lot in the Jewish community talk about, like, oh, I get one day off from my phone. But a lot of secular people and non-Jewish people have also started doing this because it is, it's not trying to change yourself immediately, which is what a lot of us do. Like, okay, this is the day when I'm going to stop being myself. I'm going to not use my phone. It doesn't work like that. That's just not how the human brain, you know, kind of will code this. But trying to introduce, I mean, if you can do, if you can do a day, fantastic. If you can't, start with an hour because what you need to do is start getting more

comfortable with the feelings that come up when you can't rush to it. That's it. It's white space. It's when you're standing in line at the super, I don't, okay, with COVID, I don't know what people do anymore and they stand in lines. When you're standing in line somewhere, it's not about try. Don't use your phone. That's it. That's the commitment. Don't use your phone. Don't check your phone between when you leave the grocery store and when you get into your car. Even that is so hard. It is for me. It is so hard. And I also need to look at this. It's not a linear process. There have been times when I have been so good. I've really stopped scrolling on, I think scrolling on Instagram was like the worst. I mean, I would just do it. I would just, I don't, it's mindless,

completely mindless and often brought up so many things. I literally, I, my heartburn came back, Jonathan. I literally get, like I started identifying my body is, it's churning with all of that information that I keep putting in there. Just pause you for one second and describe what is actually happening in the brain when you're passively scrolling content like this. Because here's what I understand is happening just on an emotional level. I'm looking for something that feels good. Lately, I have been looking at different. types of like leg workouts as I continue to rehab my hip. And I like, look at these different types of leg workouts. And I'm like, oh, I haven't tried that one yet. I'm going to try it. And then I bookmark it

and then I keep going because I don't actually then go do the workout. And so my like, I've been working for your hip. I have found some really good stuff. So that's why it's the positive and the negative of it. But the negative is this endless need for some sort of positive feedback. Let me narrate what it's like to sit next to Jonathan while he's scrolling. Okay? Let's see if I can do this justice. Let's do it. Dude, look at this dope workout. Look at what he's doing. Do you see how he's doing that? Look at his legs. Can I have legs like that? Oh, my God. This dog. Oh my God. Why would she put that injection in her lips? Does she know that's not? What is that? Oh, look at that. Oh,

Oh, look at that bathing suit. Oh, my. Oh, look at this guy's abs. I'm going to have abs like that. Oh, another dot. Oh, look at this dog. Oh, look at this. That's literally, oh, look at these sneakers.

Should I get these sneakers? That's what it's like. It's like. Look at this backflip this guy is doing. I love human feats of excellence. Watch it in slow mo. Watch it in slow mo. And I'm like, I have a 13-year-old and a 16-year-old who do this to me all day.

I don't need this from you. That's what it does to our brains. And I think also, I'm not here to say that phones cause ADHD. But what I do know is we are all, if you are on a phone, you are witnessing an over-stimulation of your nervous system. And even if you think you're fine, your brain was not wired to do what we do. I mean, I am embarrassed to tell you, you know, how many hours I have sometimes been on my phone. I'm embarrassed. And the fact is it is too much information because before there was Instagram, people rehabbed their hips.

Before there was Instagram, people bought the things they needed. And yes, Instagram does amazing things. We love it. It brings people to it. I'm not trying to be that person. But I am speaking as a scientist and a mom. and as a person whose brain is too loud just when I'm asleep. I was literally asked that in an interview the other day.

You're at your best when I said I'm asleep. That's the only time that I'm not constantly like. And even then, I'm a very active sleeper. Speaking of sleep, Crystal wants to know what impacts does long-term sleep deprivation have on mental health? sleep deprivation you know when when i read this question i instantly thought of like god forbid like torture you know where they don't let you sleep and obviously that's a very specific and and and stressful you know situation in and of itself besides the actual sleep deprivation you know not sleeping well is not necessarily sleep deprivation having a newborn you know as you know feeding a baby every two hours

all night can absolutely, I think, be categorized as sleep deprivation. We typically need seven to nine hours a night. Sleep is important, you know, for all sorts of things. The things that you'll see is memory issues, often judgment impairment because you're kind of foggy. Mood swings. I might argue that most people's mood swings are due to sleep deprivation. Headaches, migraines people will get.

And again, you don't always connect it, you know, with sleep. Clumsiness. I know it sounds like a, you know, a cartoon version of not getting enough sleep. But yeah, clumsiness. And you'll often then have like sometimes eating issues because you feel like you're, you're dysregulated. A lot of times we'll eat when we're tired if we're trying to stay awake. Like it's a thing that many of us do. You may not even realize you're doing it.

Sleep deprivation causes, you know, too much work in your prefrontal cortex, which can cause impaired concentration, reduced coordination, and not being as alert. And in terms of total sleep deprivation, you'll get memory disruption, like in the hippocampus. So in terms of mental illness then, any of those things which are disruptive to someone who doesn't have a mental illness are typically going to feel exacerbated or be exacerbated in someone who has mental illness. And mental illness is such a broad category. But if you are a person who's anxious, this kind of stuff will, it's going to ratchet everything up. There's nothing good that will happen to any of your mental health challenges

from consistently disrupted sleep. I happen to personally not like the measures that a lot of apps are doing because I think a lot of people don't know what's normal. So a lot of people will see like, oh my God, I woke up three times and start doing all these things to try and fix it. Or, oh, my God, I didn't, I only got an hour of deep sleep. And I always say this, again, so Jonathan, when we talk about this, do you even know what's normal? Meaning, I don't even know that I always do.

I sometimes have to look it up. The more you observe something, the more problems you'll find with it. And that's even true in my lactation consulting that I do. You know, a lot of times a baby scale is not helpful. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's necessary. But being so finely tuned in is, forgive me, another way to bind anxiety. This must be the thing. If I figure out my sleep, everything's going to be fine.

He's so mad right now. This is Jonathan's mad. I have this big smile on my face that I'm like holding back. On one hand, I agree with you because I definitely can see a level of like, oh, I got to fix something. I'm obsessed with it. On the other hand, if you don't observe and track something, something can be off and you will never really know about it. I have used a sleep tracker and absolutely didn't really understand initially. how much deep sleep I should be getting,

but did a variety of different things to adjust my routine, try to get better sleep, and began to notice that my deep sleep went from 40 minutes a night up to an hour and a half. And what should you be getting? Those hour and a halfs are very different.

No, I think an adult, I mean, it changes over the course of your life, but I think an adult of my age and general fitness should be getting between an hour and an hour and a half of deep sleep at night. Are you Googling that right now? No, I'm not. I'm trusting you. You're in charge of your own life and your own sleep.

Speaking of things that disrupt our sleep, we've gotten a lot of questions about EMDR. I'm going to name the people who asked about EMDR, because this was something that was, I think it was one of the most asked about things in our Ask My Am Anything submissions. Liz, Deborah, Ralph, Shane, Tammy, Julie,

Juliana, Amanda, and Angela. all asked about EMDR. And the question was pretty similar. Like, why does it work? What is it? What's going on? And the thing with EMDR is many people are using it. It's one of the kids are doing it.

But it absolutely is one of those treatments where I'm being super honest. We don't necessarily know all of the scientists. mechanisms by which it seems to be working. I'm just going to say that. There are many other things that I don't know the mechanisms of. Why are you laughing? I'm laughing because I want to explain the science, even though I know none of the science.

I mean, the eyes are connected to the brain. You use the eyes to move around. That signal goes into the brain. It clears out the bad memories and you're better. That sounds like the perfect scientific explanation of why EMDR works. But we actually have a special guest in this Ask Miami. because this person had access to all of the questions that people are asking, because one of the things that she's doing in her capacity as a human is going through

some of these questions with us. And of all the people who have to pretend like they like me, this person has to pretend the most. Alyssa is my executive assistant. I don't call her a personal assistant because she doesn't go to the supermarket for me. But she does all the things. She also is a talented writer and also was the writer's assistant on my movie. But one of the things that she was doing was helping us go through these questions.

And Alyssa has agreed to come talk to us because she herself is a current participant in EMDR. So welcome Alyssa to the podcast. Hi. Alyssa gets to see my breakdown on the daily. But now we're welcoming her to our breakdown. So, Alyssa, I'm going to ask you some questions you can obviously answer or not answer anything you want. When did you start doing EMDR? I started about four months ago.

And had you ever done EMDR before? No, I hadn't. And was there a precipitating event that someone encouraged you to go start EMDR for? Well, actually, you were one of the people who encouraged me to do it. I had a relatively traumatic experience when I had gave birth. And so Maim had suggested that one of her friends had done EMD before. And then I just happened to the therapist that I got is what she specializes in. So she recommended that I do it because I gave birth as part of a car as the result of a car accident.

So I also was diagnosed with PTSD. So it was really helpful. It's been really helpful to process all of those events. Yeah. So Alyssa, also just to clarify, your baby was also born quite early, which even without, even without the fact that there was a car accident, that in and of itself can lead to a lot of kind of birth-related trauma. And that actually was another question we were asked.

Jonathan, who asked that other question about PTSD related to labor? Kathy Wolfe asked that. Okay. You know, some might say that all birth is traumatic in some way, especially a first birth because there's so many, like, expectations, you know, all that stuff. And I don't want to act like, you know, women are constantly traumatized by the thing that we literally have been programmed over, you know, millions of years of evolution to do. However, you know, we are not really in a state of nature the way most of us give birth, you know, even those of us who are home birth hippies. it's very, very different, you know, than kind of the state that our body, you know, is kind of programmed to give birth in.

Meaning, for all of the years before we had doctors, hospitals, and all those things, babies have been born. We've perpetuated the species. Like, yes, many difficult things happen in labor, but for the most part, it should not be a traumatic experience. But for many women, it is. So how did your therapist describe EMDR to you? And there's no right or wrong answer here. I'm just curious. Like, what were you told?

She told me, like, sort of what the process was. So what I, what she said is, like, because I'm still doing therapy virtually because of COVID. So she has this little website and it's a ball and it goes back and forth and you watch it move. And then she gives you, like, a prompt. She gave me a prompt of, like, what, some thoughts that were connected to, you know, what I had been experiencing in terms of flashbacks and everything. And she, like, will say that and then just sort of let my brain go where it goes.

And she said, like, I will potentially see physical things, like, sort of, like, be in the moment. Or, like, you might just have, like, whatever thoughts come. And it's just sort of how, what, like, a hypnosis, like, what your brain brings up. But you're watching this ball. Go back and forth. Yeah. Okay. So EMDR is eye movement desensitization reprocessing.

So you are given, there's like saccades is what they're called. Like there's eye movements that you make, that you are encouraged to make. And while you're, I'm just trying to like understand. And, you know, while you're making these eye movements, there's a method of therapy that's going on during that. And the idea is that the stimulation of your eyes moving back. and forth and those repetitive movements is creating pathways that help those memories get more appropriately integrated is a way to say it. Is that, does that feel okay to everybody on this call

right now? Yes. Or in Jonathan's terms, the eyes are connected to the brain and the brain does things with information. The eyes are just windshield washing the brain memories away like this. Just tick-tock, tick-tuck. So what were you told to expect? Like, were they like, oh, you'll be fine in three weeks? Like, do they give you a time? Like, how does it? What were you expecting going in?

I had no idea what to expect, but she did tell me that, like, it can be very tiring. One, just because it's your, the eye movement itself is tiring on your eyes. And then she said, like, because it's bringing up, it kind of brings up a little bit of everything that's traumatic from your past. and it's like how your brain, it's like how your brain, I call it like a free association. So like you kind of like you're going back to traumatic events that are tied to what had happened to you. And then you kind of your brain connects them together and sort of desensitizes them that way. She said to expect like to be tired, emotional afterwards.

And then sometimes depending on the vividness of what you had been experiencing. with PTSD before, like afterwards for a couple of days, you might have an occasional flashback or moment where you're sort of taken to what you were processing in therapy or just something random. Okay. So, okay. So just so that people don't sound like, why would I ever do that? Yeah, yeah.

Okay, but I think it's important to kind of flag that this is not something you do on your own. This is not like, oh, I can do this by myself. this is something that does need a therapist facilitating it. Like, that's just true. The same probably goes of, like, trying to have a profound experience on shrooms or ketamine. Like, please do not try this at home alone. One of the things that we know about trauma, and this is actually, it happens to be in my thesis, because PTSD is a part of my thesis, just because whatever, my thesis has a lot of things.

One of the things that one of the kind of main PTSD doctor ladies, she's out of Israel, has discussed is the fact that, you know, all trauma is linked in the brain. So people who have had trauma are more likely to have PTSD later. So many of us have trauma and it just kind of like lives wherever it lives. And it could be trauma with a capital T, it could be trauma with a lowercase T. There's all sorts of trauma, and depending on how your brain processes things, things that might not seem traumatic to your sibling feel traumatic to you. It's a very broad, you know, I'm painting with a broad brush here. But the idea is that once those pathways have some stimulation, if something more significant happens that absolutely is going to activate those pathways, what happens is you get this like multiplication of intensity.

So what EMDR is trying to do is not create memories that don't exist. It's not that. It's not like trying to make you hate your parents if you thought you like them. But what it's doing is it's literally accessing literally this set of neurological pathways that hold this emotional memory. And there is science to that. This is like one of the things Jonathan and I love to do here. You know, that's not hippie-dippy out there. Memories are actually held.

They are held by, they're coded for with neurolod, like with firing of neurons. They are coded for more intensely when there's emotional content to those memories. If memories are painful enough, they will be suppressed. There is actually a system by which the brain goes into a different kind of protective mode. But I just want to clarify that when you say other things come up, that's what can be exhausting, is that things that also you may not have associated with, the idea is not to make you feel more trauma. The idea is to take this pathway and with these distractions,

which doesn't have to be the eye movements, it can be tapping. There's other things. That's the most common. The idea is that we start kind of, as Jonathan said, kind of like wiping the system clean. I've been told by a friend of mine who is the person who first told me, me about it. You know, she was able to accomplish more, and she's a therapist, she was able to accomplish more in six weeks of EMDR than she could have even in six months of processing what

she was processing. I think, like, I told my therapist in one of the sessions that, like, I would never have thought of how I was thinking of these things, if that makes sense, if I hadn't connected it to, like, even just, like, I had a day where I went through other hospital experiences that I had like good and bad. And like, I would never have connected them to those, like, those feelings had I not had been doing it this way. Because I think I would have gone in saying, like, here's what I'm feeling. This is why it's scary to me. But I also, like, there are things that I didn't remember because your brain protects yourself itself.

There are things I didn't remember from that event that, like, came up in these sessions that are small. But you're like, I would never have thought about it because I would have been focusing on the accident itself. What happened after, right? Yeah, what happened afterwards. Like, all of those things I would have just fixated on instead of processing what I think is why it was specifically traumatic to me. Right.

So it makes it go so much faster. It's, I mean, I felt, I started to feel better within, I think, like, two months. Like, I felt a lot more, like, in control of how I was feeling. Right. So I also, my mom had mentioned when she, my mom, has done EMDR and she spoke about it in a bev episode. What she said is there was some event. I don't know. I don't want to know. But there was some event that happened to her. And what she said is when she did her EMDR session, specifically about that, she said it was

as if a camera pulled back and she saw all the other aspects of what was happening like in the room or whatever. And so that's also, I mean, that's fascinating. To me as a neuroscientist, that's fascinating, that creating this kind of distraction and processing this way with, they have to be trained specifically for EMDR also. Many therapists, well, a lot of therapists are, I don't know the percentage, but it is a specific thing they're trained to do. They also have to prep you. It's not just like, hey, nice to meet you, let's do EMDR.

Like, they have to prepare you. My mom had to do some reading and, like, about the process and what to expect and all these things. But I remember she described it like that, that it was as if a camera pulled back and there was like, she said she could almost feel like she was moving around the space, you know, that it happened, which again, sounds terrifying. The thing that I wanted to ask, we got a lot of questions, as you saw when you were also going through the questions with us. We got a lot of questions from people about like,

how do I know of therapies for me or how do I know when it's time? I want to say that, you know, you are a highly, you are an intelligent, articulate, educated person. You come from, you know, a nice family. I think it's important for people to hear that these kinds of modalities, and Jonathan, maybe you can speak to this a little bit, you know, these kinds of modalities that used to be thought of as like, for the fringe, like, for wacky people, like, isn't really working. It is now becoming, you know, I'm not saying you're basic.

I'm just saying that, like, it's not like you were raised by, like, therapists who were immersed in, like, yoga and meditation. Like, you were a person who was not previously engaging. in like this kind of processing, but you were open to it. Jonathan, do you want to speak a little bit to maybe some of that stigma? I mean, I take away from this

when I hear the explanation that Bev experienced and what Alyssa experienced. And I have my own experience both doing EMDR and other eye movements that have connected to physical responses. And what I sort of lean into here, and again, my explanation is not going to be

at all scientific, but that the brain is processing our experiences and stacking them in ways that we still really aren't aware of. There's an enormous mystery still to where things get stored and then how they get replayed. And our experience of how they're stored is the experience of our relationship to them. So when the camera gets pulled back, we're doing something to change our relationship to the way that these experiences are being held by. us and through eye technique, through other forms of intervention, which can be very scientific, they're not, you know, saying a prayer necessarily, although I think there is science behind prayer and faith. We're able to change the organization of these memories. And to change

an organization of memory is something that's actually quite, can be quite scientific and also was previously only left to the realm of mystics because we didn't have any way to quantify it. So now that we're doing this on a much larger level, I think we're being able to bring these tools into the mainstream. People are more able to understand them. And then people are able to shift their relationship to something that would have been, you know, you could have been left in that state just replaying over and over without the tools to get the distance needed to feel better. So, I mean, what an amazing time we're living in that more people have access to this. Absolutely. And thank you, Jonathan. I don't know if you feel comfortable describing a little bit of what kind of your symptoms were that sort of sent you into, you know, kind of like therapy in the first place.

I had a significant, very traumatic car accident. And, you know, for me, it's not that I was repeat. playing it. I couldn't stop my brain from replaying it. And it was happening at times that I would consider were intrusive, meaning it was not an appropriate time for me to be having those memories. I mean, even now, I feel like crying. Like, I mean, it's been how many years. It's been nine years. I still remember the sound. The sound of an accident is very, very, it got coded really, really strongly. And I remember there was a very specific visual of the first thing I saw, you know, when, after the airbag, you know, did its dance. And, you know, then there was this like silence. And I didn't think you could remember a silence the way that I do. But it's a silence that

holds a lot of physical memory. And it's like, that's crazy to be able to say, I have a memory that literally is a snapshot, there's no sound, but there's a feeling, right? And I think that's something that that's a much more, again, this was the realm of kind of mystics. Like, that feeling is its own memory. And sometimes all we can access is the feeling. A lot of times with childhood, with abuse, if abuse especially is pre-verbal, you have memories that are feelings, but they don't have necessarily, you know, details like that. So anyway, you know, for me, And you can echo any of this or, you know, add anything, you know, for me, so those are called flashbacks. And what a flashback is is it is different than a memory.

I love this distinction. A lot of people don't know. Flashbacks are different than memories in that you are placed back in that place. Of course, there is science to it, but whatever feels mystical about that, that's what it feels like. You're not remembering something. You are back there. Your bodies, like, where you are in space is there. So that's a flashback that can be very intrusive.

I was very, very, very jittery for quite some time. I acquired a fear of dogs because they moved too quickly for me to track. And I had never been, I mean, I once was scratched by a Doberman when I was seven. I'll never forget it. But I wasn't a person who had to cross the street if a dog was being walked on a leash. And I became that person. It was very, very uncomfortable. I didn't drive for three months.

I didn't sit in a car for three months. And, you know, there are different kinds of accidents and I, you know, had, you know, significant injury and surgeries and blah, blah, blah. But anyway, I couldn't even sit in a car when I would drive past that intersection or get near it. My heart would start going. And, I mean, it was pretty unmanageable. My friend Jacob took me there on the one-year anniversary of my accident. he drove me there he made me get he happens to be a therapist he made me get out of the car like i mean it was

horrible it was horrible i took pictures like it was horrible um i could see why people might turn to drinking or pot smoking with the feelings that were coming up that was not for me that wasn't you know wasn't my thing i had a very bad startle reflex um and that basically means that like the phone ringing would make me jump and sometimes cry um sirens things like that. Any or all of those resonate? Like, are there other, obviously sleep gets disrupted. You know, you can also then get anxious and depressed because everything's so cuckoo. What did you kind of experience? You know, I definitely had flashbacks. I didn't have the choice to not drive in a car because we were going back and forth to the NICU, which is another thing that I was, I'm processing in

with EMDR also. So I was having really bad flashback. in the car specifically. And also like, I mean, you guys have been in Los Angeles. The people drive crazy. So a lot of what was happening is I was having flashbacks in the car because people were turning in the same way that had caused the accident. So I was having that. And then I was also having a lot of flashbacks to the experience of finding out that I

had to have a C-section that were like, yeah, it was just they were very very. intrusive. I couldn't sit still, like, ever. I was, like, obsessed with, like, cleaning and, like, trying to, like, basically just distract my mind. Which also, when you're a new mom, like, it's hard to tell what's because some of those things also happen just, and but you have no idea. You're a first time mom, and you have no idea, right? And you also don't have your baby in your home. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't until I started talking to other people that I was sort of starting to be able to separate, like, what was what people call like the baby blues, which like, it is that is also a scientific thing. You hormones are all over the place. You're crying more. But like I was, I had moved beyond what I think was like a normal experience for people.

Yeah. And then I also just remember like just not like disassociating basically, which is something that is a coping tactic that I have done before for other like it just pay. attacks and stuff. So I was familiar with it, but I was doing it all of the time. Can you describe for people who may not know what that looks or feels like? Yeah. It's like you feel outside of your body. Like I, because my husband doesn't experience it. So I was described it to him as like lucky him. I know. As like it feels like that like a cartoon where when someone's like soul is like floating above their body, like that's sort of like what you feel. where it's like you feel present here and you kind of feel present like in yourself,

but like you're really sort of watching everything happen to you but like and not really experiencing it. And I sort of at that point I think I was that was how I was living every day. Which yeah, was that for those of you who don't associate, it's a real hoot. For me, dissociation is often,

I don't want to say fleeting. It goes in and out. Like it's not like I have like a whole day or a whole hour. I can do a solid 20 minutes and then you start being like, do I need to go the hospital now? But this was something that was happening

a lot is what you're describing throughout the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like long, like, yeah, probably no more than 20 minutes, I would say. But like, yeah, long pockets of time where like I would, like, you kind of like come back and you like almost don't totally remember like where you were, what you were doing before.

Like, not like total blackout, but you're like, oh, how, how long? if I've been in this place. Yeah. If you've ever experienced an experience smoking pot where there's a place right before paranoia, this is usually it. So when people are like, oh, I get paranoid from pot, you usually get paranoid because you start dissociating and it starts to make you feel like you don't know where you are. And anyway, it can be something that people who don't get paranoid from that can experience when stoned. and it often is not disturbing to them.

But if you're not stoned and this is happening, it could be very disturbing. And if you are a delicate type or kind of a sensitive type, it can be very disturbing, you know, even when you're stoned. And it's also, it was what I tell my children. This is why a lot of people end up in the ER when they're learning to smoke pot or trying because they don't know what's happening and they start freaking the F out. It's usually a dissociative kind of, you know, thing.

Tell us a little bit about what your husband's experience. was, meaning, you know, when I had my accident, I was, I was separated. But tell us kind of, was he picking up on things, you know, was he, I don't want to say complaining, but was he expressing concern, were there things that he was trying to do to make you feel better that didn't help, that did help? Like, what was, because also the experience of being a partner of someone who's had this kind of experience, while also him going through the, the, this birth of his child as well. Like, it had to be so hard for him.

We, we joke that, like, um, he, he was trying, like, he was treading very lightly with me. I'm also, I mean, you know me pretty well now, my, that like, I, we don't, I don't take, like, notes from him particularly well. So there, um, it's a lot of, like, he was very afraid to say that he was noticing things. Um, but there did just come a point where both of us were like, something isn't right. And then I also, I had to get better at being like, it's not your driving that is freaking me out. It's just the fact that like I was in a car accident. Right. Well, and then I, we also had to like, it's not, I don't know, it's not like process it or whatever, but I wrecked his car. Not my own. So he, we just laugh about that too because like,

you know, he lost, of all of the things to happen, he also lost his car. And my, My car was like fine parked in our carport. But he's also, he started therapy as well because we, once I started to sort of get back into a better place, I was like, I can now see that like you need some help processing. Now that I'm better, I'm better enough to tell you that you're a mess. You're a mess to figure it out. No, but like he, we just like, we had moments where I was like, you're having anxiety around things that like I just couldn't have noticed because I was so deep in my own.

So your sensitivity just in general, and also that happens, you know, like new moms often report this that it's like you have a spiky sense now. You know, like, it's like, do not disturb the baby's environment with your anxiety. Like a lot of women will feel that. Right. Yeah. So, but he was, I mean, I'm lucky. He was very supportive. And I mean, yeah, he definitely had his own trauma. He was right there when I was in the C-section, which I'm sure is probably what he's talking about during his own. therapy because he could see it and I couldn't. Yeah. It's very, it just comes right out. Okay. What does your sweater say? I feel like we need to know. Oh, it says I'm a luxury and then on the back few can afford. It's a Princess Diana sweater. Love it. Okay. I just wanted to,

I didn't know if it said like, I'm a proponent of EMDR. It's like maybe she had a sweater made. I also really want to thank you for talking about this because especially if you don't, I mean, many of us don't grow up in a culture where we do talk about this. And especially if you come from, you know, even a family or, you know, even a group of friends where like, this is not something that's talked about. I do appreciate you, you know, being so open and honest about it. And I think it's, there's so many aspects of your experience that are really valuable. And I think, you know, when we experience something traumatic, difficult, you know, one of the best things we can do is hope that we can help someone else, you know, from that experience. And I'm absolutely certain,

you know, that you have today. So, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much, Alyssa. We really appreciate your time. And I know that there are phases, you know, there's usually like eight phases to EMDR. So whatever phase you're in, we hope you move through it swiftly and efficiently. And I'm really happy that you're also feeling, you know, more like yourself, as it were. But these are all the parts of ourselves. So thank you for sharing with us today. Of course. I want to talk a little bit about the science of EMDR. It is one of those, it is a psychotherapy treatment. So if you're like, what is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? It's a psychotherapy treatment. And this is from a website that I am using. It's the EMDR Institute.

I'm not doing an advertisement for them. It's just I happen to like their clinician explanation. So that's kind of what I'm using. So this was first discovered in the late 80s as a treatment. The idea is that EMDR is accessing traumatic memories or other kind of unpleasant things in order to resolve them, right? So that's kind of the goal. How do we resolve these kinds of memories? During EMDR, you attend to emotionally disturbing material or this event that you're, let's say, tackling. You usually pick one event is how you sort of do an EMDR while simultaneously focusing on an external stimulus. This could be a visual stimulus, a ball going back and forward on a screen.

It can also be, there's also hand tapping, sometimes audio distraction or stimuli are used as well. And the hypothesis as to like, why does this work? What's the science? How does this work? There is a network of memory that is kind of coding for this trauma. And the information processing enhances that and forges new connections. that have more adaptive ways of functioning and processing them. So we're basically like tapping into a memory system

and then adding a technique to help make that less disturbing. I mean, that's kind of like, I guess, the simplest way to say it. So new associations are made, and that's not an emotional thing. That's an, we're speaking neurologically, meaning we're trying to make new pathways, new connections, new interactions, new interactions. so that we can alleviate distress or that we can have our distress alleviated or eliminated hopefully

and also gain what are called cognitive insights. And those are things like, oh, I hadn't realized this was connected to this. I hadn't realized this also happened. The protocol of EMDR includes the past events that may have laid the groundwork for some issues. The current circumstance that is then tapping into whatever groundwork might have been laid, and then thinking about how the future is going to be

incorporated into this system in your brain. Does that make sense? Absolutely. There typically are eight phases of EMDR, and just very briefly, and again, do not try EMDR at home. The first phase is where you get to know the therapist and let them learn a little bit about you, because this isn't like a, like I said, it's not like a nice to meet you. Let's start this. They need to know triggers for you, a little bit about what your childhood was like. And the second phase is the therapist making sure, this is how it's stated here, that the client has several different ways of handling emotional distress. So I've actually been wanting to do EMDR and it has been suggested to me that if there are too many other things that you are actively dealing with, emotionally,

psychiatrically, that's not the time necessarily to dive into EMDR in addition. So kind of needing to make sure that there are other outlets for coping and that there feels like enough emotional and brain space to be able to do this. Also, EMDR is a time commitment, especially because you can have kind of an emotional hangover after. So it's not the kind of thing you like do on a lunch hour. Phases three to six are the actual EMDR sessions. And that's when you talk. about the images that come up, what it brings up about you, the related emotions and sensations that come up in your body. And phase seven, they actually call it closure, something that, you know, is a psychology term, I guess. And often you're asked to sort of keep a log of anything else

that comes up. And phase eight is, you know, kind of your wrap-up, as it were. So that's the phases of EMDR. I hope that's a good and helpful, you know, scientific explanation. There are people who don't believe in it, and that's fine. This is one of those things that you don't have to believe in it for it to work. Many people are very skeptical and find that it is positive in so many ways, and that in and of itself is often really, really significant. So thank you, everyone, for your questions on EMDR. This was a deep dive. I'm so glad that Alyssa came on to talk to us, Jonathan, and I think having someone with personal, you know, acute experience, kind of helping us answer.

Maybe we'll bring on a different guest every Ask MyM anything episode to help us answers. Maybe. Anything can happen here. Get some real world experience for people who have gone through exactly what people are asking about. It's great. Yeah, this is actually a really, really sweet way. I feel much more

connected to all the people whose, you know, questions that we answered, you know, even if it can't be specifically personally, it's really nice to know that we are hopefully trying to provide a service of entertainment and education. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time. It's My and Beallix Breakdown.

She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience Ph.D. or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break down. So break it down.