Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Atsuko Okatsuka: I Was Kidnapped and Brought to the U.S.

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Atsuko Okatsuka (stand-up comedian) joins us in studio to discuss her “Scooby-Doo” brand of comedy, her parents meeting on a Japanese dating show, and how her mom’s schizophrenia impacted her childhood. She opens up about why it’s difficult for her to identify her own needs, how navigating the uncertainty of her childhood led her to disordered eating, and rebelling against her family with her first romantic relationship. Atsuko also explains first bonding with her husband over his own mother’s schizophrenia diagnosis and their recent, hilarious discovery that they were not actually legally married. She considers her blind optimism and love of people as a result of her upbringing, Margaret Cho’s influence on her comedy and career, the origins of her distinctive hairstyle, and living at the complicated intersection of different Asian cultures. Thank you to BetterHelp for sponsoring the show and to Haesue Jo, Licensed Therapist and Head of Clinical Operations at BetterHelp. #ad BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We have a lot of fun together, but just so understanding, similar upbringing. His mother also has schizophrenia. Yeah, so let's just pause there. Yeah. Maybe it's not healthy. Well, no, I wasn't saying it's not healthy, but that's a very, this is an interesting statistic. Right. Because, you know, schizophrenia.

Yeah. I mean, I'd have to look up the stats on rates of schizophrenia, but the fact that the two of you found each other, that's a very interesting. What was the moment? Like when you realized you both had mothers that were schizophrenic? Yeah, it was like, again, maybe unhealthy, but at the time it was like, oh my God, this is so sexy, so hot, oh my God, make it with me now, you know? We just have the wildest sex. It was like, oh my God, I'm being seen for the first time.

I could see your whole life now. You know what I mean? It was like that. But we were already getting along and had the same sense of humor and empathy and compassion for people. And that was really important to me, you know, and to him too. And then that just, like, made sense when he revealed that his mom also has the same thing. You know, it can't just be like, oh, your mom too.

Well, let's get married. It's like, you know, we have to get along. The conversations have to be flowing. So note to our listeners and viewers, just because you meet someone whose parent has the same diagnosis as yours, not supposed to get married. That doesn't mean you have to get married. It's Myambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you.

Because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. It's a breakdown. She's going to break it down. Hi, I'm Myambiallic. I'm Jonathan Cohen. And welcome to our breakdown. Here we are.

Here we are. We're going to break down a very specific person today with a very specific haircut. We came to this episode in a slightly unusual way. I was watching television, laughing out loud by myself, and texted you that you had to watch this special. You were absolutely more right about that than anything else you've ever suggested to me. And I very, very rarely reach out to anyone on Instagram because I don't think that's the way to communicate with people. But I posted that I was watching this special and I tagged this comedian and I was like, I want this person to. come chat with us.

This person is Atko Okatska. She's a stand-up comedian, actor, and writer. She's based here in L.A. She was born in Taiwan, spent her childhood in Japan, and such an interesting history. She grew up with a lot of chaos, a lot of uncertainty in her early childhood. She was brought to the United States thinking it was vacation. She talks about this in her special. the intruder.

But I think it's best for us to welcome Atsko Okatska and let her do the talking and also specifically the talking about her hairdo, which is awesome. Break it down. Welcome Atsko Okatska to the breakdown. We're huge fans. And how would you describe your comedy?

Oh, my gosh. You know, there's observational comedians. Sure. There's storyteller comedians. Yeah. Your style of comedy, you might describe as... Oh, God, it's so... I was hoping you would tell me.

I was hoping... There's an absurdist twinge to it in the best way. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. It's not really satirical. Sure, yeah. I'm just thinking of all the genres that I know. This kind of...

I always say, people always say, like, oh, gosh, because you should know, like, your brand, and, you know, that's why I keep the bulk of. Or, like, you got to stay consistent. You've got to be easy to describe, right? They say stars are easy to do, like, impressions of, you know, right? Because they're memorable and very unique. And gosh, I think, you know, so I learned English by watching Scooby-Doo.

And I think that's my style. That's the best I could describe it. The Scooby-Doo brand of comedy. So I, your recent special, The intruder. This is your debut also. It was directed by TIG Nataro. We spoke to TIG.

We're huge fans of TIG. The New York Times hailed it as the best debut special of 2022. You were also named one of Variety's top comics to watch that same year. And, you know, when I saw your special, I was really struck by, yes, there's definitely like, oh, this is a distinctive person, which I think is important. I mean, especially in our culture now. Sure, sure. Do you want to be forgotten or remembered? Yeah.

Well, you're very memorable. And also there's a really comforting kind of tangential method to the way that you kind of present yourself, meaning there are things that don't seem like they're going to circle back and they always do. There's a really clear comedic kind of through line. and also you're a very physical comedian. And you actually talk about where some of your physicality came from. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. Right, yeah. I hope this is sometimes, you know, I'll tell stories and I'm like,

ooh, that was not consistent with another story. So hopefully this is what you heard. I'll keep you honest. Well, I mean, I do have sort of a dance background. And then, you know, with the learning English through Scooby-Doo, that's a cartoon, you know what I mean? and Scooby-Doo was very physical. And so when I was learning English, when I was learning comedy, you know, the comedies,

the stand-ups or the comedians I was watching were physical comedians like Lucille Ball or Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, because without language, you know, universally you're understood. And so I didn't know English, but they were making me laugh just through their physical bodies and expressions on the face. And I think, you know, I really take to that because that's how I was communicating with people, too, when I first came here, you know? And, yeah, I still don't feel like I know enough English words

to be able to sometimes communicate, like I'm doing right now. You're doing great. So I just, you know, do facial expressions. Sometimes Jonathan's like that, because he's Canadian. So we sort of, we have moments where... Just mostly ah, yeah, yeah. Ah, ha, ha, ha, she's like, you're hungry. Yeah.

So you have a unique, a unique family situation. And before we even get into the components of your life that I think are particularly profound, you have a family history of your mother had schizophrenia and also epilepsy. But you come from a Japanese and Taiwanese family. And those are two things that often do. not occur in the same family. Your parents met on a dating show. Yeah, that my grandma... Your father is Japanese? My father's Japanese. My mother's... You guessed it. I don't know. I'm like, oh, I'm going to say stuff. People already... Yeah, Taiwanese, the one that I didn't mention yet.

Yeah, and my grandma, you know, didn't have enough, like, I think, you know, back then, right, it's like, if you're a woman in your 30s, it's like, what's wrong with you? You know, I've always asked to my grandma why she didn't believe my mom could just find a boyfriend in Taiwan where they were living, you know, just have her go to a coffee shop or whatever. And my grandma was, I think my grandma just always knew that my mom, you know, was different and worried. And so try to get ahead of that. She always tries to do that.

And so signed my mom up on some, like a game show or some sort of dating show. And it was a Japanese dating show. In Shinjuku, yeah, in Tokyo. Yeah. Okay. She saw it in the papers. And my mom had expressed interest in maybe trying something like that, too, I guess. And for people who don't know, China and Japan are two very different cultures.

They're different places. Yes. It's not like it's all the same. It's the same with Taiwan. Right. Exactly. Right. And Taiwan as well.

So just go ahead. We're also talking about many years ago. Like now it's like, oh, I met on a dating show. Everyone's on Love is Blind or whatever the Netflix. show is this is like before that time and before it became popular to meet in different ways. That's like quite unique. Right, right. You know, trendsetters, truly is...

Was it like three women and he had to choose? Was it that? Or was she the lady and there were three guys? I'm so curious. That would have been so cool. If it was my mom like, Bachelorette style. That's what I was thinking. Oh, my God.

No, it was like there were enough men and enough women. So hopefully you match up. If you don't, what's wrong with you? We found the right amount on both sides, you know. So it was very, it was very binary. It was very, you know, it's still high stakes, I think. And then my dad and my mom, my dad, I guess, like, chose my mom or something. And then they went on a date right after that.

That was not, like, on air or anything. And then, yeah, and then after, like, a few dates, they decided to get married. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you're an only child. correct? I'm an only child between those two. Got it. Okay. And it was after you were born that some of your mom's, I guess, uniqueness became more apparent. And you describe yourself as being brought up by your grandmother.

So that would be your mom's mom. Was your mom around or was she getting treatment? Like, what was that like? Yeah, it's wild because sometimes I try to remember, you know, growing up. My grandma's always there. Even when I look back to pictures, it's her like hanging on to me for dear life. And my mom's like right next to her in the picture. But I don't super, you know, remember her doing things with me, my mom. So my grandma always took initiative, I think, would take me to the park, take me to school, you know, go shopping. And then I think she would just leave my mom behind.

Yeah. So that's kind of what my mom was up to. And when you kind of, you know, think back and you've really eloquently described, you know, some of what that felt like, you know, you've talked a lot about having a lot of time to yourself, seeking a lot of distraction, and also being kind of a source of distraction then for your mother as she struggled. Yeah. You know, was that something like from as long as you can remember? Was that something that came out more when you were, because you came to America at 10? Is that right? I realized recently it was eight. Oh, okay. And then I just blacked out two years or something.

It happens. I've learned a lot more recently about the family's past because I just came back from Japan and Taiwan. And so right now, the way I'm describing my grandma's son kind of sounds like she's an antagonist. It's because I've sort of learned recently that she kind of was. Like always like, you know, having her hand in things. And I love her.

But yeah, she was always assuming, oh, your mom won't be able to do it, you know, and so getting ahead of things. But sorry. So back to the question. Yeah. Like what was, what were your memories both of kind of feeling a lot of aloneness but then also wanting to engage with your mom? We had Dan Matthews on who wrote a really beautiful book about his mother who wasn't diagnosed with schizophrenia until she was in her 70s, I believe. Wow. Yes.

Why tell her? Well, so... Why tell her at 70? But he talked about that, like, he just knew that, like, his mom was different. And they just, there were all these accommodations that were made. And she had sort of, like, imaginary friends. And it was just, like, kind of this quirk. But it sounds like you had, you know, a very different experience.

She's so quirky. She needs help, Dan. She needs help. He also talked a lot about how they were always moving. Yes. Oh, wow. In an apartment very long or they often didn't have electricity. But nobody, like, put it in.

No one put it together. Sure. But, like, a lot of those things sound like a typical household. Like, American household that's just, like, struggling financially possibly. We're all in mess. We're all just moving around all that time. Hey, I'm an American, too. Count me in. Right now, I'm getting the house painted because we're trying to, we're doing MTV cribs.

Sorry. I wasn't like, I said it to the camera. Like, they were like, bitch, when you're going on a podcast, you got to say, our name, MTV Crips. Erring on. Insert the graphic. Erring, not sure yet. But... Okay, so let's go back to when you were...

So when you were young, yes. So what was it like in those kind of early years? What was your sort of awareness of what her needs were versus what your needs were? Yeah, yeah. I always... I still... I have a hard time figuring out my needs, actually. Even still to this day, maybe because I always put it aside as a kid.

So I have no idea what my needs were. As a kid, like looking back, I have no idea what my dreams were, what I really wanted. It was more just like, how do I... I think I became like my grandma. How do I get ahead of, oh, I think my mom's acting up again? Hey, you know, I would do a dance or like, you know, we would play characters. I would give her like a stick that's like our wand and we would ward off the bad guys, you know. and stuff that would make her laugh or make her forget

whatever was going on in her brain that I didn't understand is what I was up to. And so, yeah, sometimes, you know, people are like, I think I have a later self-awareness of my own feelings. My NBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

drink more water. There's no real data. There's no game plan. This has happened to me many, many times, especially on the perimenopause journey. That's why we're fascinated by what superpower is doing. They send a licensed professional to your home or you can visit a nearby lab. One simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers. That's way more than you usually get. It unlocks a true understanding of your body. Their app has detailed information on heart, liver, thyroid hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. From disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there.

I've been super tired of constantly guessing or just trying to read articles online about what to do for health. Superpower gives you an actionable health plan based on personal results. It's a real game changer. Plus, they have an on-demand clinician team to answer questions. Supplement or prescription suggestions can be directly bought through superpower so you don't have to go anywhere else. They also have nutritional guidance, tips for lifestyle and behavioral adjustments. even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Superpower used to cost $499 bucks. Right now, it's $199 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than

anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about and make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. Was your dad around in your childhood? He was. He was, and that's something I discovered recently,

is that my dad actually had full custody of me that whole time. And he lived down the street from us in Japan, but he would let my mom and grandma see me because he was like, that's your kid too, you know? But then they would take advantage of that time. And so sometimes it's like, you get outskirts for two weeks, but then they would hang on to me for like a month. Sometimes they would test it and take me to Taiwan for two months, you know. And then eventually they took me to the States.

Oh. Forever. She kidnapped me. I don't mean to laugh. And you talk about this in your special, but that's a real thing that you were brought here. You didn't realize that, correct at the time. That's not what it felt like. Yeah, no.

It felt like a vacation because I was told it was. Same with my dad. My dad didn't know I was moving here. So I was, I don't know. What's that? I think it's a kidnapping. It's an Amber Alert. Yeah.

Alert. Sorry, this is my impression of an alert. Alert, alert. Boeing 734. If you see one or whatever we took to come here. But that part of your special, which is obviously very painful, I was dying, laughing because your delivery, you talk about the brainwashing that happened growing up.

Right. That was one of the moments of the special where I just texted mine. I was like, no, wait a second, you have to watch this right away. That's so sweet. I don't want you to feel bad. I don't want the audience to ever feel bad. I want them to feel seen. And maybe that's a problem.

You know, some comedians can really live in the emotions. But I'm like, no, I want you to feel seen. So like, I don't, I won't sit in the sadness too long. I want you to have seen the parts that I overcame, you know. And I want you to be laughing. Comedy first for me. It's also the absurdity of it. You know?

Sure. It's like to go on a vacation and then end up in America. Right. And you talk about how, you know, for a while you still didn't know. You know, you had to sort of like put the, no one told you. You had to put the pieces together. You were undocumented, but you didn't know that until you were almost a legal adult. Right.

Yeah. Like you didn't even come legally. It was like there were a lot of surprises. So many. And it's like, I'm just trying to, I don't, yeah, it was a. I think that's why I'm still stunted, you know, because it was a lot of like, yeah, a lot of like having to live in the present, but then also backtracking. A lot of backtracking, but like the pieces weren't there. Yeah.

And it was so, and it's, you know how silly it is to tell people you're undocumented when you find out at 17, right? And they're like, oh my God, like from a war-torn country. And you're like, oh, no, Tokyo. You know what I mean? Like, you sound insane. Well, look, you were in a somewhat insane, you know, situation. Like, it was objectively speaking, that was a very unusual way. Did you come, where did you come to in America?

I moved to L.A., yeah. And they just enrolled you in school? Yes. Where did you go to school? I went to Richland Elementary. Okay. Which is like in West Los Angeles. It's just called West Los Angeles.

And which sounds fancy. Yeah. You know, West. Just west. And what's that like to show up? You don't speak the language. You haven't watched enough Scooby-Doo yet. Right.

So what are those like first years? What are you making? Because now you realize, wait a second, school doesn't usually happen on a vacation, especially a new school. I did summer school. And I was like, oh, summer school's going to be my two-month summer vacation.

Fun. I'm learning English there. I'm watching Scooby-Doo at home. And, you know, made some friends even. I can't wait to tell my Japanese friends about this when I go back and then fall came and then it was like, you're going to school again, a different one

in the fall, the one right down the street. So I was like, oh God, like that's not two months. So what are you thinking at that time? How are you making sense? I wasn't thinking, Jonathan. Okay, because if I were... You're just on pilot. Yeah, automatic pilot.

I was in shock. I was a little scared probably. I think in retrospect, I was a little scared of the truth. So I was afraid to ask too many questions Because I was already sad I was so sad And you know That I had this feeling oh my God

I didn't say bye to my dad I didn't say bye to my friends in Japan And I don't know how the law works So I have no idea All I know is that we were scared of my mom Finding out that I was even feeling sad Because then she would get upset Throw things things like that

She would act up So I just kept quiet went through school. Wow, a whole year passed, you know. I think I took a while to make friends because in my head I was like, I'm going back. So like, I might not, I might as well not get too close to anyone here. And then, you know, I should have because. Cut to 10 years later. Now I'm as an adult, I'm like, how do you make friends?

How do you make friends? So what were you like as a kid? You were quirky. You kept to yourself. I kept to myself. I did have friends. Like I, you know, it was, it's like cultural. So, you know, the two Asian kids in class whose parents also spoke Mandarin, like my grandma, those were like the people I hung out with.

And yeah. So it was like, it still had to be like through something convenient. Yeah. I am curious. Yeah. Do you ever, after like a year, you're in school, do you ever ask your, grandma, like, are we going back? Like, how does that reconcile?

Right. Yeah. I, um, that's something I've been trying to remember. And I asked my, I asked my grandma about this recently. I actually, like, recorded the conversation because I wanted to know. And like I said, I think I didn't ask or when I have said, I want to go back crying. Yeah. My grandma would sort of shush me because she was afraid mom would hear. So I think it was a lot of.

of that unhealthy, like, don't talk about it because we're also, there was also my mom as a factor that we were scared of, you know? Yeah. So. Yeah, it's, you know, it's interesting because it's often the, you know, the person often with the least kind of support or recovery, you know, depending on what the ism is, you know, or what the disorder is or the mental, you know, health challenge. The person with kind of the most loudness in that sense sort of sets the tone. you know, for the whole house. That's true. And you hear people talk about alcoholism like this.

And, you know, you hear that it's kind of like that person is sort of who everything revolves around, meaning the walking on eggshells and like having to, you know. And it's, you know, the irony is that the people who gain the most health or recovery, you know, often are the people who have to do the most work, you know, the most kind of dancing around it. Wow. Yeah, that sounds very accurate. So you've talked a little bit about eating stuff, and people call it different things. People call it disordered eating. And you can go into his little... What else?

Are there other terms? No, I want to know these other terms. Well, meaning I don't... Some people don't want to share what kind of disordered eating that they experienced. But I am curious because... you know, a lot of times, especially for young people, you know, we try and find something to control in a situation that feels like it's out of control. So I'm wondering when you kind of noticed, you know, things like that or other, you know, kind of things you did to compensate,

essentially, right, to try and create a sense of control. And I think especially in, in many traditional cultures where, you know, children's feelings, it's not that people don't care about children, but the notion of like, how are you actively? feeling right now. Like, you know, even me growing up, and I think you probably had a similar experience, you know, parenting of a certain generation was kind of like, I like to joke, you know, my parents told me when I was hungry, told me when I was hungry, they told me when I was cold, they told me when I was sad, and they told me when I was happy, you know? And like, that was just, it was a style of parenting. And it's like, if I need to hear from you, I'll let you know.

But a lot of times kids then, depending on their personality, will try and do things to feel a sense of control. Is that what food stuff felt like for you? Like, do you remember? And I don't know when that started. For sure. Yeah. That's, that's what it was. And it took me, like, reading to figure that out. I wonder if it's like in the sense that you were saying, your parents told you went to eat and stuff. It was like when I was reading, I was told, oh, you're trying to control something. And I just needed an answer. I can't just, to my actions. So, but in retrospect, I think it was right. Yeah, like in the sixth grade, around sixth grade, I had gone to a school that's not in the same neighborhood. I think we used someone else's address to go to school in Brentwood, where O.J. Simpson lived.

You know what I mean? Oh, that's, you know, it'll be better. There's more money there, you know. And so I think I felt the pressures of a new school again. Yeah. And the kids were like rich and white and just different. And, you know, I went to school with OJ's son, you know, and they weren't nice to him. And I didn't know what was happening.

It's not like I was, you know, I knew the news. So, yeah, I think the pressures of it made me want to control even more. So then I did it through like fitness and calorie counting. Got it. Yeah. That sense of restricting. It can be very comforting, you know, for a lot of people. In a weird way, I wish I had parents that told me.

when I was happy and stuff. Is that messed up? I know that's, I mean, not to like, be like, oh, your trauma is, but yeah. And I don't know what kind of parenting that's called. Is that like, I don't know, helicopter? No. Well, I think more what I was talking about is, you know, sort of this notion of like, you know, the simplest example, and I have kids.

So I remember experiencing this as a parent, you know, when my kids were little. And, you know, I have two boys, and they have very different body types. One is, like, often cold, and the other's never cold. But in my mind, I'm like... I didn't see that coming. Well, in my mind, I'm like, but you have to wear a jacket. Like, that's my, right? That's the rule in my head.

But when you have a child that's old enough to say, I'm not cold. Right. The sort of response that progressive modern parenting is to, say, I'm going to trust that that child can regulate their body enough to know I'm cold or I'm not. And the kind of parenting that I experience, and my parents are first generation, my mother was first generation American, my father was half first generation American. You know, the notion was like, you're cold. Like you're going to put on the jacket. And if you say you don't want it, you're still going to put it on. And even if we're going to have like a dumb fight about it,

where everybody's crying and screaming, I know that you're cold. And, you know, while it sounds like a minor thing to the mind of a child, what ends up happening, you want to guess? They don't trust themselves. That's right. Okay. I was curious what the effect is. Do I know? Maybe I'm not cold.

Maybe I'm not, like, I don't think I'm hungry, but she's telling me to eat, right? Oh. Or even like, you know. Your reality twisting. It's reality twisting. So, like, I don't think I have to go to the bathroom, which is one thing, like, at a certain age you want to say to a kid, like, go to the bathroom before we. get in the car because kids don't understand we're going to be in a whatever five-hour car ride. But for other things, it was kind of like, yeah.

There's a bad joke in my house that is, what is a sweater? It's the thing that you put on when your mother is cool. It's very true. Wow. This is like, you know, I'm learning a lot about this parenting style. Wow, that's so funny and sad. Yeah, no, but it's, look, everybody has their reality. twisting that they've experienced.

But it sounds like you were given an enormous amount of freedom, not maybe told when you were hungry or cold or tired. You had to figure it out for yourself, but also you're living in the shadow of all this uncertainty that you don't know how to manage. Right. Yeah. And so I don't know what personality that comes. That brings up.

But yeah. My armchair psychology practice over here would imagine making assumptions here that you're searching for some sort of knowable. If you're dealing with all this unknowable, both coming to America and then switching schools and sort of, you know, do you feel comfortable that this new school you're going to stay in, for example, or do you have in the back of your mind that you may go to another school or something else might change? So I would imagine that in the face of all these unknowns, how do you, you must imagine that there may be some other unknown that's going to come at any moment. Right, right, right. The next thing that I was going to ask is sort of, you know, the first, you know, kind of important relationship where we learn where we belong is with our parents. But the next one is sort of when

we try and interact romantically with other people. Because then all of the like, what do I trust? Who do I attach to? Who do I trust with my feelings, right? So I'm curious, did you date? Yeah. I started dating like when I was 17. I was. was such a dreamer though. I had just my head in the clouds. I was just wanted romance so bad, you know, as like a preteen and even going into my teens, you know, but I did not know how to talk to someone that I was romantically interested in. I barely knew how to like really make friends, I think, you know? And so yeah, I dated someone when I was 17. I was like on the cheerleading squad, I had a little more confidence. I had a crew, you know, I had friends. This is my friends.

And, you know, maybe a status that was like made up on TV shows. Our cheer squad was not like what you would think. Like, it's not bring it on girls. We were DIY, you know, we had no money. You know what I mean? We learned our own stunts. So that was messy. And, and then there was through Japanese school, through Japanese school, like a friend there. Japanese school is something you go to on Saturdays to freshen up on your Japanese every week.

And, yeah, through a friend there, I met, like, my boyfriend, my first boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah, I think the distance, the long distance, he lived like 30 minutes away via freeway. You know, I think it just made it

so that I didn't feel as much pressure to be like, you know, a good, fun, pretty girlfriend or whatever. So that distance was helpful in trying to, you know, make my first boyfriend work. Right. Yeah, but then I attached really, really, really hard. I moved in eventually. Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. What was your grandmas and I guess, you know, your mom to some extent, but what was your sort of family's perception of you branching out? Yeah. they didn't like it because I was doing it so intensely. Once I was like, I have a boyfriend. I just like moved to Santa Clarita. You know, I moved in.

I was ditching all the time because I didn't want to lose him. I was like, I love this new family. My other one's weird and scary and it doesn't make me feel good. We were living in a garage. Everything's cramped, you know. So, yeah, I just sort of ran. And my grandma didn't like that because I was failing classes And, you know, she would show up to school sometimes

To see if I was there And I wouldn't be there She found pregnancy tests, you know Oh, the whole bit It was, I just went aw! I went all out I was like, this is me breaking free, Me being me, making my own decisions for the first time

But I wasn't, I was just going, you know, I was all or nothing That's, I think that's why I did eat And I had an eating disorder too. I was like, eat nothing or eat a lot, you know? Yeah. And where did that lead you? Did you end up staying with that person? Did you finish school?

Did you, like, where did that all land? Yeah. Also, the thought of my grandmother or parent showing up at school and me not being there sounds, that sounds horrible. That sounds terrifying. Oh, I was so sad when I found out. Because like a teacher told me, you know, that your grandma. came by.

Wow. And she was really bummed. She came by knowing this is your last class. And she was really bummed. You weren't here. And, you know, that made me sad. But I was sort of rebelling and I was, I was angry that, you know, I couldn't. Yeah.

Like, I was like, I found a boyfriend, though. He likes me and I like him. So, like, that's that, you know. I was so afraid to lose him. Right. but yeah. So you finished high school though, correct? I finished high school.

I had to make up a few classes. The boyfriend clause. Yeah, that's right. And I went, like, I got into UC Riverside. It was like the only school I got into. So I was like, I'll go there for a year and a half. And then I dropped out because it was so far away and I wanted to be close to my boyfriend.

Same boyfriend. Same boyfriend. So then I started doing community college with the boyfriend. That's where he was going. So I was kind of just like making my life about him. But it felt good for me at the time. And then immediately after that, I sort of went into my next relationship once that felt too dark.

Yeah, I think I kind of repeated the same thing with my mom and grandma. My first boyfriend was very emo and very sad about life His mom had like left him When he was a kid So he was angry about that His dad was always working Single dad

So yeah My boyfriend would like Watch like Nightmare Before Christmas You know when that was emo I don't know if you remember Yeah right Like Nightmare before Christmas

Tim Burton movies Before it was cool At Hot Topic You know that was His whole thing would wear black all the time. Right, got it. Drink a lot. And so I was like, oh, this isn't healthy here either.

Mm-hmm. And my eating disorder was still like a thing. Mm-hmm. So it was like coming back. So then I immediately started dating someone else. Wow. Yeah. What did you study in college?

Psychology. Really? Yeah. Yeah. What drew you to that? I think my mom for sure But also, you know, at that time I think, you know,

these like high school college counselors You go into this room And you're supposed to submit applications I guess the other kids have thought about it Or talk to their parents about it I didn't do that with my family So they sat you down and they go Okay, now you're applying

You have to choose a major Hurry, you have 30 minutes at the computer And it's like, ah, what do I like? What do I like? everyone else seems so confident like, yes, I'm a math major, blah, blah, blah, historian. I've talked about this with my family since I was 10. I'm like, not my family. They don't even know this, I'm in here in this computer room right now.

So I think psychology tends to be maybe a popular major because people are like, well, I like people. And I like thinking about how people think. But for me, I think it was a huge part was my mom. So then, yeah, that's what I do have an bachelor's in psychology. That's awesome. And when did you start doing comedy? We're not going to find out what happened to the next relationship. Oh, well, I didn't want to make her go through every single relationship.

I only have been with three people. Okay, so great. So this is number two. All right. So tell us what happened with this relationship. No need. Well, he was also toxic, you know, because it was my teacher at the community college that I started dating. Oh.

Yeah. And the same class that my first boyfriend and I were in. So, yeah, everything was just like, I just need family. Right. And then I stayed in that relationship for seven years. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and he was like 12 years older than me, you know, that kind of thing. I think I was like, well, now I look for a father or whatever it was. Yeah. And you're married currently. I'm married, yeah. And sounds like happily. Yes. I mean, I guess you have to say that because we're.

asking you on the radio. Oh yeah. No, totally. He's like... The radio. Let's just identify that, everyone. The radio. Yeah, because we're on television. So how did you end up meeting your now husband?

We met through a friend and it was like after these toxic relationships where I feel like I was able to grow enough before I started dating my husband. And he's just so... we have a lot of fun together, but just so understanding, similar upbringing, his mother also has schizophrenia. Yeah, so let's just pause there.

Yeah. Maybe it's not healthy. Well, no, I wasn't saying it's not healthy, but that's a very, this is an interesting statistic. Right. Because, you know, schizophrenia, yeah. I mean, I'd have to look up the stats

on rates of schizophrenia, but the fact that the two of you found each other, that's a very interesting, What was the moment like when you realized you both had mothers that were schizophrenic? Yeah, it was like, again, maybe unhealthy, but at the time it was like, oh, my God, this is so sexy, so hot. Oh, my God. Make out with me now, you know? We just had the wildest sex. It was like, oh, my God, I'm being seen for the first time. I could see your whole life now. You know what I mean? It was like that. But we were already getting along and had the same sense of humor and empathy. and compassion for people.

And that was really important to me, you know, and to him too. And then that just, like, made sense when he revealed that his mom also has the same thing. Did he have similar experiences as you did with sort of that feeling of like loneliness and being a little bit of an outsider? Was that also kind of a connecting point? Yeah. But yes, for sure. He, for other reasons, there was also like evangelical. Christianity and him being the middle brother. He was doing a lot of the caretaking for the mom.

Got it. So, yeah. Yeah, but in different ways. One in 222 people. Okay. Have schizophrenia. So that's, diagnosed. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, but even if it's a little higher, that's still, that's some pretty, that's some pretty special matching that the two of you did in finding each other. And we have to like, you know, it can't just be like, oh, your mom too. Well, let's get married. It's like, you know, we have to get along. The conversations have to be flowing. So note to our listeners and viewers, just because you meet someone whose parent has the same diagnosis as yours, you're not supposed to get married. That doesn't mean you have to get married. You don't have to. You still have to know each other and do all that. How long have you been

married? We've been married six years, which is what I tell people. And we have been married six years. I talk about him in my stand-up. My husband, my husband. My husband. People have even called me the girl-wife guy, you know, on stage being like, my husband this, my husband there. He's my best friend. And a few days ago, I was trying to get him on my health insurance. We're behind. We're both stunted people. Similar upbringing, similar personalities.

We have to get a copy of a marriage certificate to prove so I could get him on my SAG health insurance. Anyway, the city of Los Angeles contacted us, and they were like, hi, you're actually not married. to each other, to anyone, really. There's no records of you two being married at all. We just found us out, like a few days ago, which is, you know, so us. You know, it's so us. So are you married? We fixed it.

So, yes, two, wait, two days ago, yeah, we went to the city of Los Angeles. I'm sorry, you're going to have to walk me back here. Hold on, you're newlyweds now. Yeah, well, we... How's the honeymoon going? I'm doing a podcast. I was like, oh, I'm going to studio city. I'll see you later, honey.

Wait, wait. Hold on second, though. I know. Okay, so no, but I just want to know what happened. So you planned a wedding. This can happen, my... No, I'm certain that's true. You planned a wedding.

Was it at... Six years ago. Okay, was it like at a... Are you sure? We had a wedding. People flew out. It was at a venue. It was at a venue.

Beautiful space. You had an officiant? Aficient was there. So was that person of a... a denomination? The queer community? Great. But I'm saying were they a licensed...

Oh, yes. They were a licensed person to do this. So usually there's like paperwork that you file that didn't get filed. Yes. And I think it was maybe our friend. Our friend who officiated us. And my husband's father is a preacher. So he begged for us to, you know, he was like,

please let me marry you. you. Please let me be the person. And we're like, no, no, you stand for homophobia. We don't want that. We're going to, you know, get our queer friend to do it, to make a statement. And our queer friend failed us. So his dad would be so stoked to know that. But yeah, he's, I think it was our friend who was supposed to turn it in the marriage certificate. So this whole time, it's like, I wore a wedding dress, everything, you know? Yeah, only to find out this year. So if you don't mind leaning into this a little bit, what things are, what other, what things are hard for you? Oh, my God.

Given the way you grew up. No, this is my every day. You're right. Like, we, it turns out we have a boyfriend and girlfriend this whole time, you know. But our sex did get hotter for no reason. So that's fun. You know. Yeah, I just, I don't know.

I have a goose backpack. No, but I want to, I want to. No, but I want to lean into this a little bit. It sounds like things follow through. Uh-huh. Is that, would you say that's a category that's hard? Follow through. Oh, following through with things.

Yes, 100%. Structure? A structure, yes. Got it. 200%. Are you a person who's, are you a person who, like, do you struggle to be on time? Yes. I was late 10 minutes to this podcast.

Well, no, but I wasn't, I wasn't mentioning that. No, but I'm just trying to, I'm trying to find the things. But tell me some things that you feel are special about you because of kind of the way you were raised. I have talked about this to my fans where I'm like, look, I'm messy. This is my bathroom and I show it all. You know, yes, there's toothpaste on the mirror. I will get it right now. You know, and showing the messes of the house and how I can be late to things because I'm blindly optimistic.

But I am nice. And that's not enough. But I do like people a lot. And it's not a general statement. It's not, I'm not choosing a measure anymore. I do have deep, deep love for people and empathy. And yeah, just like, to the point, I don't think about my, like, grief so much. I rarely cry just about me.

It's always for other people. And so I don't know. And my husband is very good about reminding me, though. Like, I know, I see all that kindness in you. But because you live with your head in the clouds sometimes, you know. Like, I have missed things because I'm watching like a video of somebody reuniting with their dog or something, you know, and been late. And my husband is good at grounding me and reminding me like, hey, that compassion needs to, and thought of others needs to extend out because when you're

late, that's actually not thinking of others. And I'm like, oh my God, you're so right. You know, and so not living with my head in the clouds so much is something I'm learning. But yeah. When did you find comedy? You have a really interesting, we read a quote that you discovered Margaret Cho. And she's someone we've had on. And actually she recently was on an episode of my show. And I'm a huge fan of her, not just as a comedian, but as a person. And the quote was something about you sort of saw that comedy has this ability to sort of transform, you know, trauma.

Can you talk about sort of what it was like discovering her? I think you were 17. and then sort of if that's where the comedy bug bit you? Yeah, I think I always liked, like, entertaining, whether it was, like, cheerleading or, you know, I found theater the last year of high school, too, and, or performing for my mom with my mom to get the demons out or whatever, but being a character. I always like doing that. I always like making people laugh.

But when I saw that, it could be a job through Margaret Cho. You know, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is hard. her job. Like, she's just her standing there. I didn't know it was an art form. That's when I think I, it kind of stayed with me in the back of my mind that I could do it too. And what was it, was there something about the fact that she was an Asian woman also? I mean, you know, her comedy was, you know, at the time she was, she was a pioneer, you know, in many ways and talked with us a lot about some of the challenges of that. A hundred percent.

Yeah. So I'm wondering if that also kind of appealed to you. Yeah, it was cool. I mean, it helped that she was someone that looked like me and was holding ground for an hour just talking by herself. And yeah. And so, and then she, I think she had a, and then she had her TV show too, which I didn't get to catch because I think that was before I caught her standing.

Right. Yeah. It's a lot. I know Margaret. I'm friends with her. and it's, I always say, the pressures of being the first, I'm happy to be like the 10th person to have done something, you know?

And I'm only the second Asian woman after Margaret to have an HBO special. Wow. You know, and so. It's incredible. And it's not something that I was like, stoked to find out, but I was like, wow, that took 23 years.

You know, so it's just like hoping that, so it's, it was cool that that seed was planted and I was actually able to be the second, at least on HBO with a stand-up special, you know. What was it like in the early days when you caught the bug and you were like, oh, I could do this? Did you start in open mics? Did you like start with three minutes? Like how was the early days of your comedy? Yeah. I started by taking a class because I needed structure and I did know that about me. I can't be trusted to just drive to an open mic and come out not having been kidnapped or something. You know what I mean?

Drive to an... And open mics back then were like in an alley. They're late. They go to like 2 in the morning. It's all dudes. You're maybe the one or two females there. It's not safe. It's how people go missing.

And so... And I did know that. So then I took an all-female stand-up class. Where'd you take it? In Studio City, I think. Like a private place. Private place. It was Lisa Sunstead's residence.

It's called Pretty Funny Women. And so it was like a safe space to start like practicing jokes and bouncing ideas off of people. And it was like an immediate community you could find. Yeah. Did you have your kind of the voice that we know of as your sort of voice as a comedian? Was that what you were like from the get-go or did you do standard like a guy walks into a bar? Yeah. I was very deadpaned back then.

I think I was trying to sound like TIG. Yeah. So I was like really, like really slow. And, you know, it was vibe, slow vibe. And but then I found that my personality. It was kind of limiting from my personality to continue doing that. So, yeah, they say it takes 10 years for you to really, really find your true voice in comedy. And I think that's true.

Because sometimes you have to fight off the insecurities, trying to sound like other. people, even by accident, because that's who you were watching when you were growing up or whatever. Yeah. Well, from the class, where do you go from there? Oh, yeah, from the class. So then there was like a graduation show and then other people, so you do like a five minutes. And then other industry folks or bookers were there. And then they would ask you to do their shows.

And then you have to continue by going to, you do have to end up going to the open mics. But I had these female friends now who I took the class with that I could go to my. So it was like strength in numbers. And then through that, you do, you know, other bookers see you. And then you do other shows. So showcases and then you have your crew to do open mics. Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, yeah, sometimes. But there were times where I took big breaks because I was scared. I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I believe in myself enough. Like, what if I'm like losing my mind? And this isn't actually what I can do. To think something could be a career, you have to have so much. much confidence in yourself. And I didn't quite have that. So it took years. It wasn't until like

2015 after I graduated out of art school that I really hit comedy harder. And as you were writing and as you were performing, you know, did you start to learn more about yourself? Meaning you have a lot of your own personal reflections in your act and like how you grew up. So I'm wondering as you're taking psychology classes, you can't, most people can't help, but ask questions about how they grew up and how that's formed them. And then if you were telling personal stories in your comedy, that's probably like, did you start sort of trying to put the pieces together in sort of what was forming you? Yeah, but that took a while. At first I was like, how do I set a punchline? How do I write a set of punchline, set a punchline? So things were coming out of my life, but I wasn't

getting as deep yet. Because even when I was learning psychology, again, I assessed myself latest, you know, so I didn't realize to way later. And, you know, I had to give myself permission to also be me and my authentic self, an open book. And that took some time. So, but it would come out in little tiny bits and punchlines. And do you feel like that was a shift? Like when you give yourself permission to be yourself and to be your authentic self? Do you feel like that was a shift in your comedy? Oh, 100%. Yeah. And that was just like the last few years, I think. So you have a very distinctive style. And a lot of people do love your hair in particular, which is awesome. Thank you. When did, did you have this hairstyle as a child and then came back to it? Or was this just

something that you took on as an adult? Yeah, I did have this as a baby. A lot of Asian kids have it as a baby. A lot of just kids in general. And I think friars and some British men. They do. They do. When I went to the UK, I was like, oh, wow. It was mostly men with my haircut.

Okay. So then when did you return to it? I returned to it. Yeah, a few years ago. Or it returned to you, as it were. That's right. I think it's actually, as Jonathan was asking, it's actually when I started embracing myself,

my more and it was coming out in my stand-up comedy. Then I was like, it just naturally, I was like, I want this whole cut again. I was just authentically just trying to be me everywhere. Okay, I have a couple more hair questions. I know that people tag you specifically to show their hair, which is adorable. This is just a question. Do you ever wear it other ways? Like when you're at home, like do you put it up in a little ponytail? You part it on the side. And the tiniest to Tonytail. Sometimes I do curl it a little bit to give it a perm. My mom and grandma have a perm. So I'm like, why not complete it? Three's, you know, three's company. And so, yeah, I sometimes do permit. But that's so, you know, maybe for a very special occasion. Right. Yeah. What about a hair band that like the tennis players wear? Just to get it off of your. Okay, so I was going to say, I had two choices. You either have no forehead or your forehead. Or your forehead. starts like at the top of your head. Can we see your eyebrows? Of course, yes. Oh my God, I'm so nervous. I'm so shy. Are you ready? I want to see them. Okay, what if there's a third eye there?

I mean, anything going to happen under there. What if I have... And we would be the ones to tell you. Like, you've got this far in life. It's a tiny forehead. Oh, you do have a tiny forehead. It's so tiny. You look very different with your hair. Right? This is protagonist. This is a protagonist's Well, actually, protagonist is middle part, right? Yeah. Right? This is the leading lady. This is leading lady.

And that's you. Villain. No. Most villains. Super villain. Right. Villains have like a blunt bang, dark hair. Yeah, but that's because people's perceptions of Asian women are so fucked up.

Thank you so much for saying that. It's true. I actually wonder if you can just speak a little bit to, you know, you really have two distinctive cultures. you know, as sort of equal parts of your life. And, you know, you mentioned going to Japanese school, but also, you know, you grew up with Mandarin. Do you, do people, I mean, obviously, I'm asking you about it, but is this something in the Asian community that comes up in terms of what do you, do you resonate more with one or the

other or because you were raised by your grandmother, is that more dominant? Where do you kind of fall with that? You know, outwardly, people think I'm Japanese. And so in my comedy, I rarely even talk about. about the Taiwanese part of me because my full name sounds like I'm Japanese and, you know, maybe people don't even know where Taiwan is. No. I think they just think it's all like, she's Asian.

Right. Or like it's Thailand or something, you know, like, and that's happened where Thailand, you know, had a big, big earthquake and so many people sent their condolences to me. And, you know, so yeah, it's hard, but like they both equally mean so much to me. Japan was my home and I would go back to Taiwan a lot though and my mom and grandma are Taiwanese. And so the way, their history, their ways of living and the culture passed down to me through them means a lot too. So I'm just like all-encompassing immigrant, but yeah, I, you know, I think my mannerisms are more Taiwanese. They're islanders.

They're very welcoming people. Japan, like near where I'm from, near Tokyo is like more city but colder people. Like they're just like, it's like New York. Yeah, like, but quieter or something. You know, where I got my own stuff to do. So what? You fell? Sorry, I might not help you.

You know, it's like that. That's Tokyo. And I don't feel like that's really me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they both make up me. Before we let you go, what is next for you? What do you want to do? Meaning, obviously, you have, I'm sure, a lot more comedy in you, and also you act, you do other things. What do you want to do?

Oh, acting. My nose starts to bleed. Acting's so hard. I'm telling you. Well, yeah, but yes, as a comedian, you're kind of like a multi-hyphenate because you write your own. stuff, you direct your own stuff a lot of times and you perform your own stuff. And so, yeah, so it's more about, yeah, just like, however I can reach people continuing to use those talents. So, you know, a TV show, I'm developing one right now, you know, to just, yeah, be able to, like, reach people in different ways. Some, because stand-up isn't limiting. You really could tell any story through stand-up comedy, I think. But like, like, you know, a TV show really can allow for the whole world to

continue, I think, longer. And so, yeah, that's, yeah, TV show, movie, you know, yeah, in different mediums showcasing my stories. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being with us. And if you have not checked out the intruder, we highly, highly recommend it. Oatsko, thank you so much for talking to us. so much for having me. Break it down. We're back with another segment sponsored by BetterHelp. We're joined once

again by Hesu Joe, licensed therapist and head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Today we thought it would be fun to do a little rapid fire. Let's do it. All right, you ready? I think so. Okay, what was your mother right about?

Oh, I had, let's see, what was she worried about? I had to because then it's like on the spot, so I wish you were in mind me. That's staying in the edit. She probably won't listen to that. You know, like when I was younger, and I'm not that old right now, but when I was younger, I very much craved adventure and I was a thrill seeker and I constantly want to be doing

something. I didn't like staying home on the weekends. Even after school, I want to like go out and do something like, take me somewhere. Let me go over here. And she used to tell me, like, you know, as you get older, you will start seeking out stability. You will seek out security. And the tradeoff for those things is an increase in the number of boring days in your life. And that sounded terrible to me at the time.

But now as I'm getting a little bit older, it's like, oh, my God, she was right. Nothing like a boring day. Yeah, now I like love that stuff. I love a boring day. I love not waking up at an alarm clock or just. getting to kind of veg. Me too. Your mom was right.

What was your father right about? This was a, when I was younger also, I used to butt heads with both of my parents a lot. And my dad used to say this thing often of life is not about chasing happiness. Happiness isn't everything. Happiness is not the end-all be-all. There was just like this, you know, constant messaging that I was foolish for thinking I always wanted to be happy. And I think I'm saying happiness is not the main, should not be the main priority in your life. This is where I think he could have like continued on with that is life is about finding meaning.

Life is about finding value and things. Because if you're happy all the time, then happiness doesn't mean anything anymore. And it's important to be able to kind of embrace even the darker times in your life, the times that are colder, the times that are lonely or more isolated. because these things have such stark contrast to feeling joy and feeling deep connection with someone. So that was what he was right about. Is that like life is not, again, about like, just trying to achieve happiness all the time

and being happy all the time is not anybody's realistic goal. I should have asked this before. What did your parents do for a living? So they're both professors. I was going to say, but your dad's like, I'm a clown, but never be happy. They're both professors. Are they in the sciences?

No. So my mom is in linguistics and my dad is in finance. So very practical person. Well, you are very well spoken. I can't speak to your finances, but your mother at least seems to have had a very positive influence about it. Now I'll have her listening. I mean, it's a very financial equation. You can't be happy all the time. Yeah, I was either going to guess that he was a clown or something in finance. Sometimes he's. What's the location that promotes your best mental health? I don't know if it's like a specific location per se. I definitely like being outside with great weather, which is well, probably never leave California. Great weather is subjective. Do you mean sunny weather, no rain, no snow? I do like visiting snow. But I don't, yeah, I don't think of it as like a specific location, but rather a set of lifestyle factors that support mental wellness so that whatever location that you're in, you can feel good. And that set of lifestyle factors includes things I'm sure you've both talked about on your podcast before, but getting enough sleep, which you can only do that if you have good sleep hygiene.

And that means you're putting a concerted effort into going to bed at a certain time, which all of us are guilty of not doing that all the time. Some more than others. Yeah. And it's a challenge. It's a challenge to make yourself go to bed. It's been a challenge for us since we were small children. I don't want to go.

Something fun is going to happen. You know, and I still feel like that. that sometimes. I'm going to miss out on something exciting in the night world, but very important to get good sleep. And, you know, connecting meaningfully and enough with family, friends, chosen family, people that are important to you. Important connection with other humans is very important. And sometimes that takes a lot of effort and energy. And sometimes you don't want to, but it's good to not listen to that part of you that doesn't want to all the time. And, you know, you know, know, I love animals. So if that's, that's something that works out for you, I think it's

important to surround yourself with things that you know to give you joy and to give you purpose and to give you meaning. And for me, getting in regular movement. And that's not necessarily about like wanting to look a certain way or that kind of stuff. But if I become sedentary for too long, I start getting lower back pain or I get a crack in my neck or I have all these aches and pains. And we all know if we're living with chronic physical pain, you can't be happy very much. It's just like can't even turn around. Someone says your name. You have to like, you know, turn your whole body. I don't feel my best in that kind of space. So to maintain overall mobility and feeling good in, in this body that I have, it means moving it regularly. And when I

incorporate all this stuff, then any location feels like a great place. As long as it's between 68 and 72 degrees. Yes. Do you have a mantra or a saying that you would like to share? Yeah, I don't know how true this is. The Internet says that Abraham Lincoln says it, but I don't know if that's true. Well, folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. Well, that's a good one, but whatever you are, be a good one. Oh, that's nice. Who's been your greatest spiritual teacher?

A few have come to mind with that. But for me, like, my life has very much transformed when I went to therapy school and I decided to become a therapist. And so two of the professors I had during that program, one was my advisor. I don't think I would have normally thought of professors, academic instructors as being spiritual leaders. But when I hear that, I have to think about what is a spiritual leader or teacher? And I realize for me it's somebody that's helped me reconnect with the truth of who I am. And like I said, I had very influential professors in my grad school time. I have a long time yoga teacher turned friend now.

and she has also become a great spiritual teacher to me. Like for folks that haven't tried yoga and you think it's very hoo-hoo, there is something to be said about the mind-body connection. And yoga is a fantastic way to practice paying attention to breath and paying attention to your body, learning about proprioception, which means like, my brain says my hand and my leg are over there. Is that true?

Like being able to make those connections and be very aware of your body allows you to also start paying better attention to when something is off and when something is weird. You know, like going to bed all scrunched up and like not very comfortable maybe. People that aren't mindful of the mind-body connection, they never relax and they probably aren't getting good sleep. And if you're not getting good sleep, you're exhausted, fatigued, and, you know, not showing up in the best way. Have you had a moment of best intuition? Coming here today. joining the BetterHelp team.

Best intuition. I did think of that actually as maybe an answer. I don't want to say that my life has been defined by this one job. But when I joined BetterHelp, it was a very small startup, less than a couple dozen people. And, you know, I grew up in San Jose, which is in Silicon Valley, so I know this idea of startup does really well and then it goes away. and it's gone. And so, you know, I mentioned that my parents are professors, so they're the kinds of people that went into a job and stayed there for 30 years, and they think that that is the way. That is how you find success, stability, financial security in your life is to just get tenured

and to never leave. So even them, like, the idea of me going to a startup was very scary for them, but something inside me, there's like intuition. It's not about better help. It's about online therapy. It's about a different delivery service for these services. It's about making mental health service more accessible. It's about, you know, doing it in a medium that is familiar to people. There's so many communities of people out there that would have maybe never tried therapy if the online piece wasn't an option for them. So the intuition for me was like, I think this is potentially a direction therapy is going to go. And even though I had my parents saying, it's very risky. What if this startup doesn't take off? Like, do you have money saved up?

Advisors in school, very skeptical of this direction. It's like, are you sure you want to do this? Like, this doesn't sound like real therapy as the messaging I got at that time. But against the advice and the wisdom of people I greatly respect something this was the intuition, right, said, like, just try it. See what happens? And who are you most competitive with? I would say it's context specific. Most of the time, I'm not actually very competitive. I'm not super ambitious. Outside of work, even, like I said, I love to veg. I love watching TV. I love chilling.

I love, like, you know, I have dogs and we're active, but I also like just sitting there with them. So the competitive thing is, it's inside of me, but on a day-to-day, I'm not really thinking about, like, got to smash this goal or meet this, whatever, and beat that guy. but like put me in kind of sports or in a kind of board game, then I get like ugly competitive. And it's not about a specific person. I just want to win. So that's like, yeah. You should see mine on the pickleball, of course.

I'm a mess. I'd like to thank our partners at BetterHelp for sponsoring this segment and to you, Hesu Joe, licensed therapist and head of clinical operations at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash break to learn more. That's betterh-H-E-L-P.com slash break. Hesu Joe's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance.

Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware of self-diagnosis. Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses if that's important to you. If you were a loved one are in crisis and uncertain of whether you can maintain safety, reach out for support. Crisis hotlines, local authorities, have a safety plan that can be done with a therapist too. It's my and be allics breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two.

One fiction. And now she's going to break.