Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Ben Stiller: Family Legacy, Workaholism, & Saving his Marriage

Episode Date: September 26, 2023

Ben Stiller joins us in the studio to discuss his parents’ influence, his mental health journey as a child, how the pandemic brought him and his wife Christine Taylor back together again, his workaholic tendencies, and what’s next for his career. He and Mayim share the nightmares they had the night prior, Ben shares his favorite Yiddish words and Mayim teaches him a new one during an impromptu Yiddish Word of the Day segment! Ben opens up about what it’s been like to make a documentary about his parents, how his marriage echoes his parents’ relationship, and his mother’s struggles with alcoholism. He recounts his feelings of separation anxiety as a child, the interesting forms of therapies his family tried, and his experience with transcendental meditation. Mayim details her digital detox and inspires Ben to consider giving it a try, and they discuss how creativity can add something incredible to or get in the way of a romantic relationship. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I constantly feel like I'm still just trying to figure out, well, what do I really want to do? What I really want to do? Or how do I want to get closer to what I, you know, expressing myself. And I feel like I've always just been a late starter, really, with all of that. And actually in coming to the party of realizing, oh, wait, this is really about like, you know, kind of like trying to find out more about myself, express myself, and open myself up. Because I think it's also easy to do this stuff and not show yourself. For many years, you know, I've done things that are,

less personal. There's some aspect of myself that's coming out in them. Sure. But I think that's what every filmmaker is kind of working towards is trying to get kind of closer to like, you know, being in touch with themselves and maybe exposing themselves more. Because I haven't really done a lot of acting the last few years. I'm really trying to look at like, well, what is, what's going to make me happy as a creative person? I do love acting, but honestly, I have, I have to say, like, I really love directing, then I'll go to the place of like, oh, well, I love directing, but like, oh, but if you love directing, you're not really challenging yourself. Like you're, you know, you're being too easy on yourself. Do the thing that's like, that is, that's more, you know,

scary to you. Right. And I think that is, is there, is there a scary element? Acting as acting, yes, definitely. Say more. Well, you're so, I just, the less I've acted over the last few years, the more I've appreciated as a director working with actors. maybe somehow the acting, watching the acting process from the outside and seeing how hard it is. I guess working with actors who I think are really good and seeing what they put into it. Are you comparing? Meaning are you thinking like I don't do that? I'm thinking.

You know what I mean? Like is that the... Yeah. Well, yes, I'll always watch an actor and go, oh, my God, he did that or she did that. It's like, wait, I never thought of like, oh, wow. You know, that's a real commitment level. or I never thought of approaching it that way. Or I also just see how, how challenge, like how hard the process is,

put yourself out there as an actor. What a strange thing to do. Right. What a vulnerable thing. It's my ambialic's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you because, you know, she knows a thing or two. So now she's going to break down. Hi, I'm I am Biolik and welcome to my breakdown.

This is the place where we break things down so you don't have to. Boy, am I sorry? And girl, am I sorry? that Jonathan is not here today because we have the amazing Ben Stiller in person. I've always wanted to meet this man and to get to talk to him about the things

that I get to talk to him about, I am speechless. So without further ado, we're going to talk to Ben Stiller about mental health, his parents, his marriage, COVID, being a filmmaker, so many things, meditation,

like, here's Ben Stiller. Ben Stiller on the breakdown. Ben Stiller, welcome to the breakdown. Break it down. Thank you. How are you? I'm okay. It's very exciting to have someone here in person

because we started this podcast during COVID when nothing was in person. And so you're one of a few. Yeah. It's very exciting. Dustin Hoffman was here. Dustin sat in that very seat. That's very exciting.

Matthew McConaughey zoomed in, but Ben Stiller is in person. That's what we like here. Dustin is, I love Dustin. He is love. He's a very, he's just a very warm person. He is, which is a really good segue into the nightmare I had about this interview. Really?

So I had a dream that you did not want to sit at this desk. And instead, we had some like errand that you wanted me to run with you. But you were like, oh, but we can do the interview. I just need to do whatever else you were doing. But like I couldn't get the voice memo to work. So like I didn't know if we'd even have audio. So I conducted an entire interview. Wow.

in my nightmare that I wasn't even recording. It was very strange. You were quite surly. But I've never, I'm going to say this. I don't think I've ever watched an interview that you've done, meaning I know your work. Just stop it. I know your wife. Stop it, my name.

No, but I didn't know what to expect. I've had enough of this. Okay. No. I want to fulfill your dream. I, can I just tell you my dream last night? A hundred percent. Okay.

I had like the classic actors nightmare last night. where I was on stage doing a play, where I was sitting at a desk and I forgot my lines. Oh. And there was a restaurant offstage right that was making noise. So I made them stop the performance claiming that the noise was bothering me. But the real reason was because I didn't know my lines. And then I got Adam Driver to bring me the play from off stage and put it. And so I had it on the desk so I could cheat and read the lines.

lines during the, uh, I mean, that's more than like just a classic actor's dream. That's also a classic like neurotics 101 dream. Yeah, totally. And then the other part of my dream last night was that I was, and this is just so like obvious. No, you weren't. I was on an ice like iceberg, ice flow and the ice was breaking around me. Oh, okay. I mean, I so badly want to know what's going on in your life besides coming here this morning. Um, you know, just life. Yeah. And the things are going well. This has Ben Stiller on goodness. Do you like dream analysis?

I mean, just in your life? I'm not saying for me. I mean, I'm interested in it. I don't know if I believe in like the sort of like, you know, the theories and books where you go, this means that or this means that. Well, these are pretty on the nose. Yeah, no, exactly. It's very obvious. It's not in any way.

It's just like, yeah, it's just like a pure stress and neurosis. Congratulations. Those were your dreams. All right. But isn't it good that when you're not? you dream like that, that you're like working, like you're kind of like working stuff out? Well, that is what it's for, presumably. Right.

But what I think was interesting was your justification of why you forgot your lines was part of your dream, which is like a highly cognitive thing, I think, to do in your dream, right? It's not just like, I forgot my lines. It's like, oh, I'm going to come up with a reason. And then I'm going to tell them to stop making noise. Yeah, to try to, yeah. You're good at this, really. Yeah.

I'm curious about many things about you. And I do want to say that I've known your wife longer than you have, which is a good feeling. Yeah. I think she probably told you. From Blossom, right? No, I knew her. Yes, it was during my blossom years, I would go to this play called The Real Live Brady Bunch play. And I was a teenager.

And, you know, I was an odd teenager besides the fact that I was living my life on television. And, you know, my social life was very strange because I was, you know, basically on this from the time I was 14. But, you know, some of the younger kind of PAs, they would go to these plays and they would do artsy L.A. things. And so they took me along with them. I must have been, I don't know, 16 or maybe 15. And so I knew your wife when she was a young actress

in the real-life Brady Bunch play. There's so many paths that kind of led to us sitting here because she then worked with David Lashar, who I worked with on Blossom for almost the entire run of my teen years. So so many interesting things. connections. And one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about was you grew up with not only comedian parents, but you grew up with parents who were prominent, you know, in their own kind of right. And I have a 15 and 18 year old. And they've been, yes, I do. I know. Do I not

look old? No, you don't. That's incredible. And I mean, what ages, too? Yes. Yes, two boys. And, you know, they've been coming to different terms of understanding themselves in relation to me. My older son recently just wrote one of his college essays about the moment that he realized that I was someone besides just someone's mom. So I was actually curious if you'd be open to kind of starting there. When did you realize that your parents were well known? Oh, man. Gosh, that's going so far back in my life. I mean, I, I, I mean, I don't even remember, honestly, because I feel like I just grew up with just, my earliest memories of growing up were being in our apartment.

And see, I remember seeing my parents on television when I was, I don't know, really little. I mean, they were, you know, they were doing it since before I was born. So it was just always a part of our life. And I never even knew a time when I don't remember a time when I didn't know that they were, you know, that they were actors. Because we were just always sort of a part of their acting life. By that, I mean, like they would go and do summer stock plays and go on the road and we would go with them or they'd come out here. We lived in New York. They come out to L.A. and do whatever show or game show, which was, and so I have, so I don't, I don't know.

Is your sister older? My sister's four years older, yeah. Okay. And did you grow up kind of assuming that you'd be industry people? Like, was it just like we are this, like, I think of, I don't mean to make you a circus family, but I also, when I look at your parents and their accomplishments, it's like, I can imagine that when you're those people and you have kids. it must feel like, oh, we made more of this.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I ever really thought. There were moments when I thought, oh, I'm interested in this or I'm interested in that. But it was always so exciting and interesting to me being around what they were doing. Now, that doesn't mean it was always fun, but it was just very, it was just like more interesting than school, more interesting than kind of like having to study or. And then so then there were things like, oh, being an archaeologist or something like that, that I thought, well, that could be really cool. But I never really pursued it seriously because it involved, oh, you have to like study. You have to work. Like, I'd rather go and, you know, hang out at the nightclub with my parents while they're, you know, performing with, I don't know, Lola Falana or something.

What was their marriage like? I mean, did you grow up with people who were funny with each other? Did it always feel, I mean, I'm not saying that it always felt fun and funny, but I'm curious if they workshoped, you know, if your home felt like kind of a, you know, a workshop of sorts for their craft or if it was very separate. Yeah, no, it was totally part of our lives because they didn't have an, they had an office when we were older, but they basically were working in the living room of our apartment. That was their office. And so they were always, and I'm working on a documentary about my parents. So I've been sort of delving into it a little bit. And I've been, you know, kind of listening to, my dad recorded a lot of audio tapes of them working together, rehearsing of our lives.

Not emotional at all. Yeah. Oh, no, it's crazy. And what I see is the line blurring a lot of the time between just them talking and then my dad was always trying to sort of mind their right. relationship for material and creative material. And because that's how they actually found success. And my mom was a little more resistant to it. But because they both were actors, they met as actors, out-of-work actors,

and were not comedians. We're not doing comedy. And then my dad sort of, I think, identified this thing in their relationship that was funny and, and, you know, got my mom to work, work on it with him. And that's how they created this comedy team. So that kind of that dynamic was always happening in the house. And for us as kids, it was always like they go in the big living room. We called it the big living room.

It wasn't that big. Was there also a small living room or not? No, there was like a living area. It was an apartment on the Upper West Side, Riverside Drive. And it was like a six and a half room, you know, Riverview on the fifth floor. And, you know, not really huge. but they had this living room that they had this sort of like folding white door because they had this architect come in and do like a renovation on it in probably like 1970,

or something, you know. So it was like very, you know, 70s and like a lot of bright colors, like green and blue and white. And so they closed the door and they go in and just work in that room. And he'd record. He had a real-to-reel tape recorder and a cassette recorder. And they'd work on whatever it was, like there's sketches or they're. commercials or, you know, different ideas. And a lot of the, it was just sort of always happening around the house. And in retrospect, I look back, you know, I think, well, that's interesting

because, you know, how did they separate their lives? How did they separate their relationship? How did they make their relationship work? They stayed together. They never separated. They never divorced. You know, it wasn't the most... I mean, it was that there were ups and downs to the marriage, but they really loved each other. But it was a lot. And looking at it as an adult now and having, you know,

been in a marriage and having kids, you know, I have a totally different perspective on it. But as kids, it was just like, yeah, they're doing their thing. And, you know, as a kid, you're not thinking about what your parents' responsibilities are, anything like that. It says you.

You don't grow up in my house. Really? Really? It's just everybody does it different, you know. My MBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine.

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Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with superpower. Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiotics breakdown to help support the show. It's funny, since I've not really seen you do interviews, I know a lot about you because I know just about your parents. And, you know, like, it's kind of, you know, it's a really interesting Hollywood family that you're part of. And a lot of people don't know that your mom was not Jewish. Like, people think of Ben Stiller, forgive me, as like, you know, you're like a Jewish actor and you are for, you know, every intent. I mean.

Well, she did. I mean, she converted. Right. But I'm saying, like, a lot of people don't think of her as a not born Jewish person. People assume that that was your, you know, kind of. upbringing. Irish Catholic. Yeah. How did they meet? Do you know a bit about your parent's story? Because at that time also, you know, I think it's interesting. Your dad was of a generation where that often didn't happen in those days. So I'm just curious. It met in an agent's office. And it's one of the

things in the documentary that we get into because, you know, basically it became a story that they told our talk shows all the time about going into an agent's office and the agent. I mean, it's of another time, but basically the story was that, like, my dad, my mom went into the agent's office and the agent, quote unquote, started chasing her around the desk. It's a funny story about, you know, which is not funny anymore. It doesn't hold up one. And then my dad's part of the story was my dad went in and he started chasing him around the office. And this was the funny story that they told on talk shows for years.

And I don't even know. I never got to the heart of what the reality of that story was, but it's based in some sort of reality of like an agent who was definitely crossing the line. And they, you know, that's, and he took her out for a cup of coffee after that. And very quickly they, you know, were a couple. I love that. I didn't know that she converted. So absolutely that counts.

that counts. I didn't mean to discount that, but I didn't know that. But she was the one who probably was the most, my dad was pretty spiritual and definitely, you know, connected to his Judaism. My mom knew more probably about religion since she had to learn about it. Right. And was, committed to it also. But we weren't a very religious family. Right. You were bar mitzvah, though, right? I was, yeah. I mean, so was Drake. So these are that. I've got a list of amazing bar mitzvahs I want to know. Really? Did your bar mitzvah have a theme? No, this was like, you know, 1978.

Yeah. So it was not a, you know, there wasn't that fancy. Right. It was the party was in the basement of the synagogue. Yeah, same. Yeah. And I, you know, the biggest thing that happened was that my two friends and I, I played the drums and my friend played bass.

We, you know, we played, I think we played Hey Jude at the reception. which was exciting. That's awesome. Yeah. That's really awesome. So I don't want to poke at like, could you have done other things? Because it sounds like you didn't love school. That wasn't something you were interested in pursuing.

But I do have this, like, you know, I'm interested in sort of sliding doors, parallel universe opportunities. Like, I wonder, you know, if there was ever a time that you were like, I'm not going to become a filmmaker. This isn't going to be my life because I could do X, Y, or Z. Like I said, the archaeology thing was interesting. interesting to me. Which part of it? I just, I loved history. I just still love history.

And the idea of, you know, unearthing the past. And so I was sort of drawn to movies and TV shows about that and books. And, you know, at that time, you would like, you know, we had an encyclopedia Britannica said. It was very, that was on the shelf that you would like open it up and you can like check. like ancient Egypt and, you know, I just, and the idea of traveling and going somewhere. And this was like pre-Indiana Jones. Sure. But that was really fascinating to me.

But again, it was just sort of the study aspect of it. And then my sort of interest in, really in directing and filmmaking kind of started when I was like eight or nine. And that kind of took over. Astronomy was also another area. but, you know, unfortunately, that was math. Yeah. And the gene in our family for math is not really that strong and not dominant. So I'm really, really bad at math.

So and when I learned that math was essentially, mainly what astronomy was about, then I was like, okay, I'm not doing that. But I did, we lived near the Hayden Planetarium, and there was an astronomy class they had on Saturday mornings that I went to that my mom went to with me. Wow. Which I loved, which was sort of like just like a fun astronomy class. So, yeah, but I think, you know, it never really was that serious. I think my grades weren't great.

I didn't, you know, by the time I got to, you know, being a senior in high school, my options academically were not that broad. Were you funny in school? Like, were you a class clown guy? We have a lot of, we have a lot of comedians who come on here and I don't think of, think of you as a filmmaker, honestly, before I even think of you as an actor. But I'm always curious. Like, were you that guy? Like Eugene Levy and waiting for Guffin. I was not the class clown, but I studied class clown. No, I was not the class clown. I was kind of awkward and not like a total nerd,

but like kind of just sort of like in that middle zone of like a nothingness. You know what I mean? That's the title of your memoir. The middle zone of nothingness. So, yeah, so it was sort of like, you know, I had friends who were probably more on the kind of like not nerdy side, but like they were like kind of like the science kids. Right. And there was one teacher at our school who was, who actually still teaches at high school. And both my kids went to this high school. And we just celebrated it's his 50th year of teaching at that school. That's unbelievable. And his name is John Rader, great. science teacher. So he was the best teacher for me. I had that school, but yet I was not a good science student. But he was a great teacher. And I was in his home room. And so those, my friends who were

like in that group were sort of more in that area. So not the cool kids, for sure. What, you mentioned being kind of starting to be interested in film as it were, you know, as a, as a wee one. Was there a particular movie or a particular kind of genre that was interesting to you? I mean, I'm 10 years younger than you, so I was raised on, like, the classic sitcoms of the 70s. You know, like, I have a very different, you know, set of, like, comedians that influenced me. But I'm curious. Well, I was raised on the sitcoms of the 70s now. That's true, too.

I wasn't born in the 50s. But I was, I mean, I loved TV. Right. I love TV and I love movies. And for me, at first, it was the movies. And this was, you know, at a time when you would go to the movies. and there was the lows 84th Street on Broadway that I would go to and, you know, Planet of the Apes, beside an adventure.

You know, even like the movies like Death Wish, you know, growing up on the Upper West Side at that time, it was a little bit rougher. It was a lot rougher. And so, you know, that was part of life was like, you know, and Death Wish, like, the whole thing was like shot Riverside Park. So, you know, these ideas, and the Super 8 films I made, like these little revenge movies and kids like basically like trying mugging me and then me with my friends coming and like beating them up but i i love those kinds of like action movies and um disaster

movies and then i sort of discovered comedy and like you know like woody allen movies and um you know then was a teenager, later teens into early 20s, Albert Brooks movies were really big. But it was kind of eclectic, I think. And then TV, I was watching, yeah, watching all the sitcoms, watching, you know, $6 million man, you know, Charlie's Angels, all of it.

That's how you learn about women. Yeah, oh, my God. Yeah, it is. And, you know, it was all kind of the TV part of it, I think, was such a huge influence. Maybe because my parents were, you know, in the big living room working a lot of time. And so we were kind of left to our own devices a little bit. I'm curious, you've talked a bit about this. There was an interview you did in particular in Esquire magazine that was very interesting.

And, you know, talked a lot about, you know, sort of aspects of... of your persona, you know, your personality. And I'm curious if you, if you have sort of any insight into sort of how you developed as a person in terms of your mental wellness, meaning, you know, a lot of us raised by parents, I think my parents are probably similar in a lot of ways to, let's say, your parents. There's a generational, you know, vibe. There's intergenerational trauma, which is what they call it now. But I'm curious, did you grow up with a lot of anxiety Did you feel like an anxious kid? You've talked about kind of your parents' moods,

and, you know, that happens a lot with creative people. But I'm kind of curious what your vibe was. I think I wasn't that self-aware when I was a kid. When I look back on it now, when you said anxious, you know, I was like, I was very connected to my parents. You know, I didn't, I got homesick a lot. I had some traumatic events that would happen when I was away from my parents. Things would get, it was scary to be on my own.

Now, I haven't really explored that. I mean, I've been in therapy over the years in different forms of therapy. But, and I guess I have explored it. But, I mean, you know, in terms of like why I was so connected to them. I mean, I feel like, you know, you love your parents. You want to be with your parents. It's a natural thing. Sure.

They probably were going away a lot to work. They would come out here to L.A. to work a lot. They never wanted to move to L.A. They were New Yorkers. So they would go for a few weeks at a time. And when you're a kid, a couple of weeks is a long time. And so my sister and I were kind of on our own with our housekeeper, Hazel, who is our sort of second mom. And I think, so, you know, when I look back on things that I did, there was a lot of anxiousness, I think, or kind of fear of being alone. But when they were there, my parents were, I mean, my mom, you know, my mom had issues across her life with alcoholism. She got sober and was really explored that stuff and was pretty amazing. How old were you?

When she got sober. When I was, I was grown up. Oh, okay. Wow. But she, you know, but she really, she really, like, went into sort of like, trying to figure that stuff out. She had a very tough child.

And her, she lost her mom when she was 10. She was an only child. And my dad grew up very, very poor. Right. And I think there was a lot of fighting in his parents. Were his parents born in a little? America? Yeah, his father was. His mom was born in Poland. Okay. And so, you know, they had, they had it, I think, pretty, pretty rough in terms of just growing up at a time when nobody

talked about this stuff. And my parents were, in the 70s, there was a lot of different, you know, therapies happening and, you know, est and things like that, and which we took. We all took est. The Earhart Seminars Training. It was like a... Oh, really? Oh, you got... It was this sort of new age, sort of, sort of like confronting all the issues in your life

where you'd go off for a couple of weekends with a trainer. Oh. Yeah. And... Wait, how old were you when you did this? Well, I was probably about 10 when I did it. My parents and my sister took it too, but they had a children's training and a teen training.

My sister took the teen training. I took the children's training. But it was a very popular thing in terms of people who were doing self-exploration in the 70s. It's very progressive. I mean... It was very progressive. And it turned into something else called the forum later on. I don't know if you ever heard of that.

Okay, yes. That I heard of. Okay. So that's what S was. Oh, that's interesting. And it was a little bit controversial too, you know, because it was basically like people being kind of like confronted with their issues by a person in a room with a lot of people and kind of being like it's a bit of exposure therapy yes yeah yeah and when you're 10 it's it's it's a little bit it's a

little bit strange because you're it's like what what do I have to like what are my issues that I've built up over the 10 years of my life well it's it's kind of funny it's funny that you mentioned that I mentioned that you're exactly 10 years older than me yeah so when I was born. You were doing this. And, you know, I grew up, if Jonathan were here, he'd be like, get out your bingo cards. She's going to mention all the things that she mentioned when she talks about her childhood. But, you know, my parents did move to the West Coast. My father reluctantly moved. My mother was like nine months pregnant. Like, this is the story, is that she said, if I have to put a child in one more effing snowsuit, I'm going to throw the child out the window. That would have

been my brother, who's four years older than me. Anyway, so I was born. We were living in my grandparents living room because it was a hasty move. And I'm sure there's more to that story. But I was born in San Diego, like, in just like whatever hospital was near my grandparents. And my parents were documentary filmmakers. And so like my dad was a very reluctant, you know, West coaster. But, you know, this kind of like progressiveness really hadn't reached, you know, the circles that I grew up in. So I think it's very interesting because when, when you're describing this kind of progressiveness and, you know, your understanding of, you know, of kind of the way you grew up, you know, for many people, I'm not just speaking for myself, but, you know, for many people,

you know, if you were raised in alcoholism, if you are raised, you know, with complexity, my father of blessed memory was bipolar, so I grew up with a lot of complexity. And we didn't call it that. You just, it was just like, oh, sometimes it's like this and sometimes it's like that. And sometimes you don't know what's going to happen. But it's just kind of interesting to think about, you know, those first 10 years of your life, right? So I think that's really, it's really fascinating that your parents also had, you know, access to that or kind of presence of mind to do that. Yeah. I mean, I give them a lot of credit for, you know, trying to just delve into it and explore. I think it's interesting because there were a lot of sort of mixed messages happening because I think they were,

they were trying to figure it out too. Right. And I think over all of it was sort of the pressure of being, you know, actors and show business, having to make a living, having to be successful, this business that we know is like, it would be really, really challenging. And at a time when I think it was just a very different time in terms of everything in terms of how people talked about things. It was a time when all this stuff was coming out into the open. And I think for their generation, having grown up with nobody talking about this stuff, I'm sure that they saw it as a way to really, you know, to grow. But at the same time,

they were also trying to get through their lives. And so that's what we grew up with was a lot of like sort of like, oh, you know, we're taking S, but also my parents are fighting and they're not talking about it. And then, you know, my mom will go close

the door to the bedroom and like what's going on. So I'm curious because we do talk on this podcast a lot about different kinds of therapy. What were some other kinds of therapy that you either knew about, heard about, tried, or like, what else was going on in the 70s and 80s in New York that I missed out on? Was there scream therapy?

There was. Yeah, my dad did some sort of therapy where you went into a room and, like, you had foam bats and you hit it. Right, yeah. That's a thing. I don't know. All I know is that he went and did that. And my dad had like all this repressed rage, which he then channeled into his kind of brilliant comedic acting, you know. Right.

And that was like a big dynamic between my parents, you know. I mean, and it was sort of, that was always going on. But, like, looking back and I'm like, well, that's really cool that he went and did that, you know. We did family therapy. Oh, how was that? I mean, yeah, yeah. Oh. It was really interesting.

Was that like, let's try this out or like something's got a shift here, people. Get your ass on the subway. No, it was because my parents were in therapy and they were doing it. And they had a therapist that they both went to also. So they, I guess a couple's therapist who they went to for a while. And then they invited us to all come in. My sister and I ended up doing a sketch of it on very little when I was like 25, which my parents, we all acted.

Right. And that was kind of like the dynamic in our house was like, I think like we were doing things like that in real life and then constantly like turning them into, you know. So wait, did you go like once? You went six times. You went for a year. What was it? No, we went like a few.

times, I think. Did people throw things and cry? Because that's what happened when my family went to therapy. Well, it was, yeah, I mean, the thing about it was, looking back, was like, it was their therapist. So I feel like it wasn't an even playing field. You know, it wasn't like a neutral therapist. But, I mean, I don't remember much about it other than kind of, you know, my sister was

going through her own issues and, and, um, every. Everybody was kind of coming from their own place. So it didn't last that long. Right. Were you in therapy alone at any time? Did they ever make you go? I mean, no one made, I feel like I might have gone a few times. I don't know.

I started, I started, yeah, I mean, I've been in and out over the years. Got it. And I've never done psychoanalysis or anything. So what kind of therapy do you like? Because some people like cognitive behavioral therapy. Some people like, I don't know, hypnosis. Like, I don't know. dialectical behavior. I can name them all.

I'm not, you know, that well-versed. Oh, you talk about your feelings? Yeah, talking about, I mean, I don't know if I, you know, honestly, like, I go back and forth because I have friends who've done different kinds of therapies where it's like more, like this is like more interactive and you're actually doing stuff. Yeah. Or you're, you know, like you said, just not, dialectical is just like talking. Well, there's different methods, but like cognitive behavioral therapy, you get like

assignments and you have to like do stuff and, you know, like, I mean, I've tried them all. That can work for like obsessive disorder. It can work for anxiety. It can work for PTSD. But like psychoanalysis, like the like Woody Allen kind of classic psychoanalysis that we think about. Or Dustin Hoffman, which was part of his, you know, acting training was to be in proper psychoanalysis. And they would go like three, four.

And that's like many times a week. I tried that a couple of times just lying on the couch and talking where they don't say anything to you. It's just, yeah. You could just be the therapist. Really? Oh, I thought that was part of it. When we talk about psychotherapy or psychoanalysis, that's sort of talking about, like, you know, what you're doing and where it might have come from, whereas cognitive behavioral therapy is like, I don't care what your mother was like, stop behaving this way or stop thinking this way or will help you, you know, find new tools. So it sounds like you generally talk about things, though. Well, like, do you know, like Phil Stutz, the guy that Jonah Hill did the documentary? Yeah. I saw him for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's great. Yeah. And he does actually give you tools, specific tools, which I think are really helpful. Are you a meditator?

Not regularly. Okay. But I did take, that was one of the things. I was going to say, go ahead. In the 70s, TM was a big thing. I was going to ask you about TM. Yeah, yeah, that was one of the places. Did they, they, did you all get a mantra?

Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever use your mantra? I'm not going to ask you your mantra. You know you can't tell me your mantra. You're not supposed to talk about your mantra. Yeah. Okay, but did you use it?

I got my mantra when I was like 12. Is it the same one you would get at 22, 32, 42, 42, 42, 52, 42. It's the only mantra. It's the only mantra I've ever got. So I don't know. I mean, I never went back. So did they teach you at 12 how to use it? They gave me a mantra and then we sat in a room.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes when I'm wanting to meditate, I'll try using the mantra. What do you mean try? There is no try. Well, if I'm being honest, if I'm being honest, I don't always use the mantra. Sometimes I'll just like close my eyes and, you know, breathe.

Yeah. Isn't that, well, that's meditating. That's a thing. I mean, I know there's all different. types of, you know, approaches to it. I'm curious, were there other things? Because in the 70s also, like yoga became a thing. Like, did your parents integrate any of, like, any somatic or body practices into the family

therapy system? There was no yoga happening. Okay. That was too West Coast. Yeah. No, my mom was not a yoga person. And my dad wasn't either. My dad was going to the Y and running around the track, you know.

And, but, you know, like, we lived in a. in this building where, do you know Peter Max, the artist? No. He was very big in the 70s. And if you saw his art, you'd recognize it. Like this kind of pop art thing. And he was very connected. He knew Swami Satjitinanda, who had been with, I guess the Beatles had connected with.

And I remember him coming to visit the building. And I was riding my skateboard in front of the building. And he got on my skateboard. So there's like a feeling of like all those different sort of 70s, progressive, you know, things that were happening around. But we never did, we never did yoga. This was not with my parents, though. This was my friend, Adam and I, when I was, I think, like a junior or senior in high school.

Do you remember the Silva mind control method? I've heard of it. Jose Silva, I think, was that? Yeah. Yeah. So it was basically like a way of, like, I don't know if it was like actually therapy or like almost like a sort of a like way of man. manifesting things. And my friend Adam, I thought, oh, this is really cool. We went and we did the

Silva mind control training somewhere downtown on the east side, New York. And there was a thing called the three finger technique. I remember, like you do this three finger technique where you could basically like visualize what you wanted. And I remember the thing that I was trying to visualize was finding a parking spot in New York because that was so hard to find. I remember my, That's like one of my earliest memories is my dad going and sitting double parked. You know, they had alternate side of the street parking in New York. So like there were, you know, Tuesdays and Thursday from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. You can't park on the side of the street because the street sweepers come.

Thank you for defining alternate side parking. I mean, nobody's going to know what I'm talking about. It's true. Sorry. And so the thing would be that if you had a car, that you'd have to go and sit in the car for like a half an hour, 45 minutes before, you know, whatever, like from 1.30 to 2 to make sure they didn't. tow you away so you could get a spot by the time two o'clock. So that was the thing that in the silver mind control, like, oh, if you could use the three finger technique to visualize a parking spot. I remember we took this really seriously. Do you identify with any features of growing up with a mom who struggled with alcoholism? Like when you think about like the patterns that people talk

about, do you identify with any of those? Because, you know, like they say like if you want to figure out why you're doing something, stop doing it, which is usually something, you know, that people say to people who drink or whatever you're doing, whether you're shopping or porn, like whatever it is, if you want to figure out why you're doing it, stop. So I'm imagining that also, you know, that's, um, she, she was protecting herself from something, you know. Yeah, like I said, she had so much trauma.

Yeah. And, um, and the thing that I'm so grateful for is that, you know, I think so many people who live with alcoholism live, in their families, it's never dealt with. Sure. Right. It's never, ever explored or even talked about. And so that's what I'm grateful for is that she really dealt into that in her therapy. And, and, and, and, but yeah, I mean, of course, you know, those feelings like a, like, you know, for, and for, for someone who's a functioning alcoholic, you know, it's basically, you're trying to sort of navigate that because it's not, it's not dramatic. now. Right. And I think those, you know, feelings, whatever feelings I had probably also were just, like, for being, I think, you know, a kid who, when your parents go away a lot, too. So it was like sort of, I think a combination of those things. But, like, maybe a sense of, like, kind of like just being insecure, right? Vigilent. Yeah, wanting to feel, you know, wanting to feel safe, which I think every human being does. And it just sort of exacerbates that more probably when, you know. You have a really sweet story with your wife.

And one of the things that's so interesting to me is you grew up with parents who worked together and you are with someone who you have worked with, in some cases continue to work with. I'm curious what that sort of felt like in real time in terms of building a relationship because also, you know, it's hard for any two creatives to be together. But there's also an entire other emotional, you know, relationship that you effectively have to have with someone if you're going to be with them and, you know, raise children. I'm curious, especially as you work on this documentary about your parents, if some of those themes seem more prominent, less prominent, or if it's completely different.

No, I mean, it all, I think it all sort of like interweaves, you know. I mean, when I was a kid, I was like, I'm not going to do what my parents do. I'm not going to do comedy. I'm going to be serious. Filmmakers, you know, and that actually is something that I always really wanted to do. But then I also, you know, was, I had to sort of like give in to the reality that, oh, I like comedy and it's part of, you know, who I am. You're pretty good at it. But I mean, but it's funny in relationship, you know, the same thing, like watching my parents.

worked together. I think I saw both the positive and the negative aspects of how that affected their relationship. And I never thought about that when I got together with Christine. But yet we did meet working together and we did work together a lot and have worked together a lot. And those things definitely do affect the relationship. I think I had a little bit of a fear of maybe subconsciously of working together, affecting our relationship in a not good way, probably from seeing the things that... But yet the other side of it is my parents stayed together and loved each other. Also, your parents were...

I mean, not that you and Christine are not partners, but also when you have a role as a director, for example, it's very different. It's very different than, you know, creating simultaneously in a way that's more parallel. You know, and I don't mean to make it a stratified hierarchy. thing, but I just can't even imagine, you know, what, what that must be like. It's an extra dynamic. Yeah. And that's, that is a lot about, in this documentary, what I'm looking at,

because my dad was always aware that this, this dynamic between them was part of what, they, they were not working as actors. They weren't getting jobs. And then my dad had this idea, well, what if we took our, our relationship, you know, Jewish guy, Irish Catholic woman? And let's, like, do a comedy act about that at a time when a lot of people, you know, weren't talking about that, and it wasn't an accepted thing. And so they put this act together and they all of a sudden found success. And then they went on the at Sullivan show like 30 times. And it changed their lives. So that dynamic was actually part of their success. And then how they sort of navigated their relationship with that, you know, was very complicated. But as a, as an actor and

director with like we're working with Christine you know I think at the end of the day it's you it it's about respecting each other I you know I so respect her point of view on things creatively what even if we're not actually working on something writing something together or doing something together you know we talk about everything I talk about you know her project she talks about you know I give her stuff to read we talk about it and I okay but that's a very diplomatic answer which I appreciate and I think it's true I also am just thinking about what it must be like to work with someone, be part of that creative process,

and then that's who you go home with. Yeah. You know, like, when I directed, like, I could not deal with anything when I left that set. I didn't want to be, don't look at me. Like, I was by myself in a hotel room, like, in New Jersey. Yeah. And I was grateful that no one, like, I didn't have my kids at that time.

I didn't, like, I can't imagine processing, like, at that level with the person that I was working with all day. Right. Was that you go, do you go and be separate at night? No, I mean. You can't always tell an actor that they're great, but we need to hear it too. Yeah, I think, and probably it's more the reverse where like I, when I'm working, like, you know, the feedback that I'm like, oh, what did you think? What did you think?

Was that good? You know, it's more about me. Yeah. Got it. For sure. Which can be very tough on, you know, the other person. And I think we've figured that out over the years, you know, we've figured. out, you know, how to navigate it, but it's, it's not easy for sure, you know.

And I probably put way too much importance on that, like the creative sort of approval. Yeah. You know what I mean? Which can really, really get in the way of a relationship, right? If I'm like, well, what did you really think? You know? Sure. And yet, like, well, you know, as course, like, she's going to say, well, she knows like her.

She's, well, I didn't think it was good. Like, well, that's going to affect the rest of the night. Sure. Or maybe the rest of our lives. The stakes are not high at all. But yet, I'm like, you've got to be honest with me. Right. How many films have you done together?

Oh, gosh. I don't know. I mean, we haven't done one for a while. Right. But, you know, I mean, we did a few. Okay. We did a few. And kind of like very early on when we had first met to, you know.

What an interesting part of courtship also, right? I mean, it's. I mean, and we met working together. too, yeah. That's very romantic to me. Like, I, just as an outsider. Yeah. And especially, like, as an actor person, like, that's very romantic.

Just this notion that, like, you meet someone, no matter what, you know, position or you have or they have. There's something very romantic about being in a creative space and also having that spark of creativity that is love. Yeah, I think it's amazing. You know, people who work together, write together. you know, and can find a way. To me, what I think of is like, it's like almost like a deeper connection because you're really like, you know,

you're coming together on not just sort of your, relationship stuff, but like this creative stuff, which for creative people, I think sometimes, maybe I'm speaking for myself, it's hard to separate out, as I was saying,

but like it really is, you know, like it's so much a part of who you are. So if you can connect on that level together, I think that's an amazing thing. I mean, but it's not, you know, it's not perfect. And like I said, with my folks, I watched that over the years, how they did that. But they had a very specific thing because they were, they performed together all the time.

Yeah. I mean, it's a thing that doesn't really exist, you know. I mean, it's from a different era. It's from a different era. Yeah. And they also lived through the changing of how, you know, really what people watched. And, you know, like we're comedy teams. They lived through. comedy teams then not being something that people really were seeking out.

Right. And they also were trying to navigate their own feelings about what they wanted to do separately too. Right. So, you know, that part of it was challenging too. I wanted to ask one more thing about Christine because it's something that she talked about when she was here. And I'm not trying to do a tit for tat, but speaking of kind of a little bit of this romance,

you know, she talked about this kind of, you know, fascinating terms. of events in terms of your relationship and what COVID sort of brought out. And, you know, there's something, again, very romantic. I don't mean to, I have romanticized your relationship in case you haven't. But there's also some, there's also something really, you know, beautiful and enduring about, it sounds like the amount of work that is involved in actually keeping something going. And so I'm not interested, and I said this to her as well. I'm not interested in like the details and like, it's not my business. It's nobody's business. But I am interested, kind of in light of everything you've been talking about, about kind of the introspection that you seem

to do, and whether you've gone in and out of therapy or whatever, I'm curious, and this is when we started this podcast was during COVID. You know, COVID brought up all the things. And, you know, as I said, like, you either like the person you're with or you do not like the person you're with, or you either are stuck with the shit about yourself or you're going to fix it, or you're going to start, you know, taking it apart. I'm curious if there was anything, you know, in that sort of process that you felt was like the results of work that you were doing or if there was something in particular that felt like COVID brought out something for you that, you know, made you feel like, gosh, I'm going to look at life differently.

Because I think a lot of people had that in different ways. Well, yeah. I mean, well, also, we had been separated. Yes. And we came back together. So that was a big part of it. Yeah. And I think.

I'm like, I guess the question is like, was it like, the world's going to end. I might as well be with the person that I know. that I love the most. Like, was there that or was it other stuff that you were going through personally? Yeah, no. I mean, I think it happened to coincide with, I guess, a place in our relationship where we were trying to figure out, you know, whether or not we were going to be together or not. We weren't together and had been separated for a couple of years.

So, but I think we both had the desire to explore that. And I know I did. And I think COVID then, you know, look, I think we made the decision. Right. When lockdown happened that we were going to all stay in our house together when we hadn't been living together. And I think part of that was, I don't know, you'd have to ask her on her end whether or not. Well, I think she was like, he was just there.

Like, he just kept being there. Right. But in my mind, I was like, I had intentionally wanted, I wanted to get back together. Got it. So I don't know. if she did or not. I get the feeling she could have gone either way. But for whatever

reason, she said yes to us all being together. I think it was like, it made sense practically, but for me, it was like, okay, we're all going to be together. And then for like a year, we were in the house together, but we weren't really a couple together. And then, but, you know, the thing is we really enjoy hanging

out with each other. I mean, we've what, we, you know, we've had all sorts of ups and downs. And, you know, it's not it's not a perfect relationship in any way. But at the end of the day, we really appreciate each other. And I know that since we got back together on my end, I appreciate it even more because I don't take whatever I might have taken for granted before.

Especially being in a long-term, you know, like 20-year marriage. Well, and raising kids, you know, when I meet people who don't have kids for whatever reason, there's an amount of envy of like, you didn't have the test of tests of, like, do you want to look at this person's face every two hours when you're waking up to feed the baby and want to choke them? Well, it just changes your life completely. So there's a there's a stress element also. There's a pressure, you know, that being a parent inflicts on the family. I'm very impressed with couples that stay together both with and without kids.

Yeah, for sure. Because each way it's like the couples that don't have kids, I'm like, okay, well, you guys really. you know, have really figured out that you want to be with each other. Right. I think when you're not staying together for the kids. Right. Yeah. And kids can keep you together in a way to the point where then you have to really question,

okay, well, am I here because I want to be here? And you do love your kids and you want to be there. You want them to have, you know, you think about your parents. And for me, the pressure was, oh, well, my parents always never broke up. Right. But they also saw the tension between that. And then they'd come back together. And ultimately, they really did love each other.

Right, but as a child, you don't get a vote. You know, on any given day, if you would have asked me as a child, I would have been like, I don't know if this is going to work out people. Right. Oh, for sure. But we don't get votes. Yeah. Yeah.

And for whatever reason, they decided to stay together. And then as they got older, you know, they're just like, I saw them kind of really appreciate each other, you know, which is pretty amazing. But, yeah, so I think, you know, I think we found each other in that, like I said, I had kind of really, you know, had wanted that and I think it happened pretty organically which was great and then it was such a weird time my daughter graduated high school at home it was you know

it's just like it was a strange thing but we did you know which a lot of families did came together and we all watched movies at night and we were spending time that you know for me working a lot you know I think I tend to kind of like

like disappear into my work. So not having that. It's my favorite drug, is my work. Oh, for sure. Definitely. Work is definitely a drug. And workaholism is a real thing, for sure. Did that shift for you over COVID?

Because it had to. Kind of except I was still working. But the concept of it shifted. It wasn't my choice. I was working on a show that we had started, and basically, you know, then it got, It stopped when everything happened. And then six months later, it was, like, we're going into production.

We're doing this. So it was kind of both things happening. But definitely in terms of just overall, like, workaholism, I think over the years, it's very, very easy to fall into that and neglect other parts of your life. That's also true because I think some people might be like, well, it's easier for Ben Stiller to say. Like, he's successful. But I think it's true no matter what level you're at in your life. life, meaning there are time, you can make yourself busy. You can use that as your drug,

no matter what level of the industry you're at or whatever level of your career you're at. Meaning if it's filling that, you know, the God-shaped hole, as 12-step programs call it, you know, if it's just filling that place of like, I'd rather not think about my feelings or process my emotions. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you're making movies that are being released in theaters or if you're working at the corner store or if you're an at-home parent. Like, you can fill it with stuff. Yeah, for sure. And I think if you're a creative person, it's even more complicated because I feel, as a, you know, I love work. I love what I do. And I feel lucky that I love that I'm able to, you know, to earn a living doing what I love doing. But then the line is really

blurred between, okay, well, how much am I expressing myself here and how much am I disappearing into this or escaping from real life. And I think part of what the COVID experience was was people had to kind of stop and were forced to look at. Like you said, you know, kind of like, what am I doing here? And there's a line or there's a thought in a movie, which I won't name the movie or the filmmaker.

Thanks. At the end of the movie, the character says, are we just all like kind of creating all of our issues and problems in our lives here because we don't want to deal with the bigger questions. Like, what are we doing here? What is life? You know?

Yep. And I think that's a very real thing. So, you know, anytime you can stop and actually just sort of like not do anything. And that's something that my dad actually was a real proponent of just like resting and just, you know, and not staying busy, though he always was working. But, you know, it kind of like, it can be a little bit scary. Well, I was just going to ask. I recently took a two-week complete, complete unplugging. No computer, no phone.

Wow. I mean, forget about no social media, which I've kind of been off for several years with any consistency. But, you know, I had really gotten in the habit of, you know, like the New York Times every time there was a blank spot in my day. Like, any new story? You know, and so, like, I shut all that down for two weeks. And it was just me and this guy who's not here right now. I didn't have any, I didn't see anyone. I didn't talk to my mom.

That was the hardest, was explaining to her like, ma, I'm going to be off the grid. And I'm okay. But I'm not going to talk to you for two weeks. Not personal. She took it okay. But I really shut it all down. And unbelievable things happen when you do that, as you can imagine. Did you go somewhere?

I was, no. I was basically here. It was a lot of therapy. It was a lot of introspection. It was a lot of working on stuff that I had just, I had put so much stuff on top of that I thought it could never get out, you know? And, you know, you see, like I said, when you, if you want to figure out why you're doing something, stop doing it, right? And just everything kind of, you know, there was a lot of clarity that came. And mostly, though, what I found is time in my head to think, like to have thoughts that weren't generated by responding to something or reacting to something.

So I'm actually curious. I know you're a Trekkie, right? Like you have interest in the Trekkie world. But I'm curious. Well, but I'm curious, though, kind of, you know, you don't need to take a two-week break to kind of go inside. I'm curious what other things you do when you're not working, meaning do you enjoy social media? Like, are you a video game person? Like, I'm sure you spend time with your kids and your wife.

But I'm kind of curious. Like, what other things kind of keep you feeling like, oh, I'm not just a human. you know, doing instead of human being. Human doing, yeah. By the way, I give you a lot of credit for doing that. No, seriously, it makes me want to do that because it's challenging and scary. And when you think about it's like, oh, well, that's like scary. No phone in your hand.

It's crazy. Oh, my God. Yeah, and I really, I do resent that I'm so connected to my phone, you know? And I'm, yeah, I'm super aware of how much I check. all the time. I got off of Instagram. And the hardest thing about that was the connection,

the family connection, because the one, I think, positive thing about it is that you can stay connected with people in your family, and especially having kids, you know, and I felt very much like an outsider where I wasn't able to like, and now they just like will tell me about like, oh yeah, you know, this post or that post.

But I'm still on Twitter or whatever it is and I it's awful but you know it's all yeah it's all a big distraction for sure and when I'm working if I'm trying to write I know this is an answer your question yet but like if I'm trying to write you know like the biggest thing is like to get off of the internet and I mean is it weird to say that I actually like I guess for me like to have a space to read or write feels like it's actually a break for me.

Yeah. I love to go to Hawaii. We have a place in Hawaii probably for like the last 20 years and that's kind of like where I've always felt like at least I could connect you know, with sort of like nature.

What do you do? Do you like swimming? Do you do sports in the water? I'm not like I, you know, I like to play tennis. Okay. No pickle ball? I am not a pickle. I have not tried pickleball.

I see a date in our future. Are you a pickleballer? Yeah. Really? Both of us are, yeah. I mean, I'm getting a lot of pressure to try pickleball. I mean, Jamie Fox has a court. So just if he invites you, bring me along.

I'm a very good partner. I'm waiting for the invite. No, I mean. Tennis. I feel like I have so much work to do on my tennis game that I don't want to, like, introduce pickleball. It's all thing. But, yeah, nature.

Yeah, I like to, like, you know, like, I mean, like, I'll go out like on a paddle board every once in a while. Or just like having space and just like being able to like just sit and really feel like, I guess the license to do nothing. Like, and, you know, unfortunately for me, I feel like I sometimes have to go somewhere to feel like it's okay to not do anything. And you're right, like that so much comes in when you have that space. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm constantly working on that sort of line between creativity, working too much. Where is the place where I need to take space and not do that?

You know, I tend to fill the space, though, a lot. For me, I feel like I'm always editing. Yeah. Yeah. But yet, like, well, tell me what you think about this, but I really do enjoy that process. Oh, yeah. Creatively. Like, I really feel, like, I don't know if it's, like, cool to say or not, but, like, I really feel, I really, I really enjoy when I'm in process working on a creative project. Yeah. It's funny because, you know, I started acting, you know, in, I was 11 and then I, you know, whatever, I was in beaches when I was 12.

So, like, I had this, like, late start for a child actor, meaning most kids start at three or four, you know, they're in commercials. Like, I was a, you know, I was the girl, like, didn't know how to memorize lines, but it just, I just figured it out, you know? And I know that sounds funny to people, but, like, when I went to audition at 11, they were used to girls who already knew how to, like, smile and pose. You know, I knew none of that. Like, I showed up in, like, converse and weird tie-dye clothes.

I mean, look, Gary Marshall thought it was fine. So, like, there I was. But I felt very green. you know, even at 11. But, you know, kind of that notion of my life sort of became like, I'm an actor and I live on this box. You know, I've been in three sitcoms, you know, in my life. Like, I live in this TV screen.

And, you know, I've done other things and I got a degree in neuroscience and I have two kids and all this stuff. But I live in this box, you know. And when I had the opportunity to direct, and it was, you know, something that I wrote, which, like, I just couldn't imagine explaining to a director how, like, because I already saw it in my head, you know. And when I had the opportunity to direct, it was the first time in my life that I was like, oh, everything about me was made to do this.

My critical eye, my romantic eye, my appreciation of color and angles and negative space and like my deep desire to understand the mechanics of an interaction. How to show that. editing was like unbelievably gratifying. And I realized like sometimes you're in your 40s when ever. everything coalesces. And, you know, this can happen with relationships or it can happen with a lot of things. But also that notion of, I see how people get lost in this kind of world. Right. Because as an actor, you go home at the end of the day, you make dinner for your kids, you know, being a director, being in that role where, like, you know every crew person, you're, you know, fielding every problem, answering every, like, that, it was so stimulating. I mean, it was like every part of my

brain and being was being utilized. I was like, this is what they made me for, you know? That's great. Yeah. I know. But it is. And, you know, instinctually, I feel like I knew that that's what I wanted to do before I knew even why I wanted to do. It was because you took est. That's why. Maybe. But I was so not self-aware for so many years of like, why, why am I even wanting to do this? And it's just like listening to something inside of you. And I think, The challenge, though, in terms of talking about the workaholism aspect of it is, for me, is like looking at, okay, well, okay, I know this is what I love to do and I could just do this, but what is it that I want to explore about myself as I'm through this process?

Right. And that is where I feel like I'm very sort of new at that. Right. And I think, you know, you talk about like being, you know, your age or my age, it's like I constantly feel like I'm still just trying to figure out, what do I really want to do? What I really want to do? Or how do I want to get closer to what I, you know, expressing myself? Right.

And I feel like I've always just been a late starter, really, with all of that. And actually in coming to the party of realizing, oh, wait, this is really about like, you know, kind of like trying to find out more about myself, express myself and open myself up. Because I think it's also easy to do this stuff and not show yourself what you did is doing that. Right. By writing something that's very personal. Right. But for many years, you know, I've done things that are less personal.

There's some aspect of myself that's coming out in them. But I think that's what every filmmaker is kind of working towards, is trying to get kind of closer to, like, you know, being in touch with themselves and maybe exposing themselves more. Not that I want to be the best Ben Stiller fan there is. But for me, like, it is your more dramatic explorations that are so interesting to me. not that I don't love comedy, but just kind of knowing about, you know, you as a filmmaker,

like that's what's most interesting to me. So if you need a vote, you have, you know, my vote, that that kind of exploration, which I know is part of, you know, the work that you do both as a director and an actor, it's incredibly significant, you know, in terms of a body of work as well. Thank you.

No, I mean, yeah, I really know, I know that. about myself what I enjoy and what I feel connected to. And actually, at this point of my life, because I haven't really done a lot of acting the last few years, I'm really trying to look at like, well, how much of, like, how much do I really want to, like, what's going to make me happy as a creative person? Oh. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a perfect time in your life to ask that. Yeah. Yeah, and like, you know, because you do something for a very long time, like, I do love acting, but honestly, I have to say, like, I really love directing. And so as I'm like, well, what do I want to act in? Or I'm like, well, what do I really want to do? And I mean, I could go deep with this, but like, then I'll go to the place of like, oh, well, I love directing. But like, oh, but if you love directing, you're not really challenging yourself.

Like, you're, you know, you're being too easy on yourself. do the thing that's like that is that's more you know scary to you right and I think is it is there is there a scary element acting acting it yes definitely say more well you're so I just the less I've acted over the last few years the more I've appreciated as a director working with actors maybe somehow the acting watching the acting process from the outside and seeing how hard it is and I guess working with actors who I think are really good and seeing what they put into it. Are you comparing?

Meaning, are you thinking like, I don't do that? I'm thinking, you know what I mean? Yeah, well, yes, I'll always watch an actor go, oh my God, he did that or she did that. It's like, wait, I never thought of like, oh, wow, you know, that's a real commitment level, or I never thought of approaching it that way or, you know, all that. But I also just see how tough the process is, how, how,

How hard the process is to put yourself out there as an actor. What a strange thing to do. What a vulnerable thing. So I don't know. And I love directing because I feel like you can appreciate what people are doing. Appreciate someone's acting process. Try to be helpful to it if they in any way need it. You have an idea of what you see.

but then there are all the other elements too. I found myself trying to almost like vibe with the actors when I was directing in a way. That sounds so weird. You said you were a late bloomer socially, so this actually is fitting into the profile. But like trying to put myself in some sort of headspace

when I'm directing, not just being a guy there kind of like going like, okay, action or whatever, but like really trying to like be connected with what they're going through, because I thought that might help the actual scene itself. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it does.

Sometimes it doesn't. Exactly. But it's sort of all like a process of like trying to, you know, it's all like figuring it out and like trying stuff too. Yeah, for sure. I want to bring this full circle before we say goodbye. You're, I, because I'm not on social media and I don't go looking for these things, I think that you're relatively private about your kids,

which you should be. But just to bring this kind of full circle, you know, I think about you growing up, I don't know why I'm getting emotional about your life. I think about you growing up with your parents and like the set of questions that, you know, I asked you about what that was like. And just thinking about for your kids, you know,

they are growing up with parents who are in a completely different era, you know, a completely different awareness and, you know, a completely different culture of sensitivity around parenting. It sounds like your parents did a really lovely job. But I am curious if there's kind of anything that feels particularly interesting or poignant about being a parent,

you know, parenting the way that you are? I mean, I think being a parent is just, it's completely emotional. Yeah. Because you're so connected to these kids, you know. I mean, I think about that a lot lately, the level. And it's an interesting question. I don't know if you've ever explored it. Like, why do parents love their children so much? Is that, is it just a biological thing, the protective thing?

But the level of love that we have for our kids. And I also think about that in relation to how we can as people expand that love out to people we don't know in our lives. But yeah, I mean to watch them become people on their own. I think when you have kids, they all of a sudden just become human beings on their own. No matter what you're putting into them or what you're trying to do as a parent, they're just going to be who they are too. And it's fascinating to me. And I'm, yeah, watching them both. Both of them are very interested.

And my daughter is going to drama school. My son is a senior in high school and he is very interested in acting. So I'm watching that happen. So I'm watching, you know, the... The Apple. You know, and that's a whole other discussion, too, about where that comes from. Sure. You know, I have those feelings about nepotism and all those things because...

They call themselves nepo babies. Right. Oh, yeah. No, I know. And, you know, that's just been around forever. Correct. You know, we just never talked about it. It was just called normal.

Yeah, before there was an article in New York Magazine. So, you know, I'm just, I'm, you know, amazed watching them do their thing. I feel, you know, both protective, as I saw my parents were with me. in different ways about how you know what they're going to experience going into the the creative arts and how that that works but yeah I mean having both my parents now you know passed away I you know seeing in my kids sort of the our you know history and lineage and it's powerful yeah yeah it really is and and um you know, it's very moving to me.

Their, their, their connect, the connection that they have with my parents from, you know, when they, what they experienced with them when they were still alive. Yeah. And I feel like that, you know, and also, that's also a whole other question about like your connection with your parents when they're gone. Yeah. Which is, I feel is very, uh, becomes almost deeper when you're, when, when, uh, your parents aren't there anymore.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it's all very emotional. Oh. Okay. Last thing. Ben Stiller, do you have a favorite Yiddish word? Did you grow up with Yiddish? Well, I mean, I grew up with my mother's, my mother, the Irish Catholic, you know, convert was very good with the Yiddish word.

Okay. It's a funny language. Yeah. I like, I mean, there's a bunch, you know. I like tumult. Oh, look at you. Well, I like tumult because it's sort of been appropriated as like a word in our language, as a lot of Yiddish words have. I like Mishbukha.

Okay. Yeah. Very nice. Family. It's fun to say. You know, and then there's like, Oigavalt. It's just a great expression. I grew up with that. Oh, it's a Shonda. It's a Shonda.

My mom's saying it's a Shonda. It's technically a scandal or a shame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what's the word for pig? Khazar. Hazar. Yeah. A Khazar.

And the word Khazerai, which means pig bits. Khazerai is stuff. It just means stuff, but it's literally pigbits. I'll teach you a Yiddish word before we let you go. Oiske-Zumt. People created this word during COVID to describe the feeling of being on too many Zoom meetings. Oisqizum. I swear.

My family in Israel introduced this to me. So I think we're all Oiske-Zum. Anyway, thank you so much. You're welcome. This is great. for you she's got a neuroscience phd or two one fiction one now she's gonna break down so break it down