Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Bevisode with Mayim’s Mom! Anxiety, Sexuality & Mind-Body Connection

Episode Date: April 8, 2021

Oh boy, let’s see how this goes. Introducing the first of many to come, the Bevisode… where Mayim and her mother sit down to analyze previous episodes and how the topics within them relate to their shared and individual experience in life. This week Bev dissects a few core topics from some of our earliest releases. Namely, anxiety as it relates to Grace Helbig’s episode, honesty about depression shared by Leslie Jordan, the idea of holding and the mind body connection explored by Iliza Shlesinger, plus Bev's deep connection to the testimony shared by Cheyenne Jackson during his appearance. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, so what do you think your diagnoses with BMA? Normal neurotic. Okay. Describe what normal neurotic is versus unnormal neurotic. I don't have a chemical imbalance. Have you had your doctor test you? I mean, I can feel it. I can feel it.

I'm chemically, I'm stable. Hi, everybody. It's Miami-Aolic, and welcome to my breakdown, where we break things down so you don't have to. It's my ambiolic. I'm laughing down for you Because you know she knows a thing or two And now she's going to I'm laughing because this is a ridiculous episode

Because we break down Myambiolics breakdown with myambialics Cause for Breaking Down her mother Bev is going to be joining us Oh cause for breaking down That's going to come up in our next follow up with Bev My mother is a dynamo She is a very very interesting person

She sounds a little bit like Al Pacino. She's from the same borough. You can hear my accent come out. Jonathan. What do you call her, ma'am? Ma. Ma. There is a vowel that we use where my people come from,

and my native tongue is Yiddish, and it's not Ma. It's ma. No, that's not it. Ma. It's like a... Just let it keep going, ma'am. It's, well, what's funny is my mom used to call my dad Ba' because his name was Barry.

So it was Ba. And she was Bev, and then I was my. But yeah, bea! That's how she'd call him, like a lamb, a little lambicons. My mother's a first generation American. She was born during World War II in a tenement house in the South Bronx, yo. Her parents were not English speakers. They did not speak English in her home.

They spoke Yiddish, which is the language of Eastern European Jews. She had a ton of trauma and wants to talk all about it. Although she doesn't really claim that she has trauma. but we do circle around a little bit. She's 100% fine. You're going to listen to this episode and be like, guess Mayam's dad was the crazy one. So just so people have a little context,

what we do is we brought Bev on to give her reactions of the first three episodes. And... It got wild. It got wild and made mine very uncomfortable, which was part of the fun. Let's welcome, Bev. Break it down.

Okay, so what we wanted to talk about, I was telling Jonathan that you've had some really, really interesting, just like feedback on the podcast. And it's been really helpful to hear your takes on things. The first episode, you're already getting hot. Are you okay? I'm good. Okay. The first episode was Grace Helbig, anxiety. And I remember, this is what I remember. The first thing you said to me is, I love the podcast, but, and I said yes, you said, I don't recognize the person you describe as me. That's exactly right.

That's exactly right. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you mean and like what that was like? So I guess I didn't expect on the podcast when guests speak that you would also be speaking about your experiences. Have you never listened to a podcast? Michelle Obama. That's it. That's the only one you need to have listened to.

Thank you. So when Grace was talking, I'm like great. And then you started talking about your childhood. I literally said to myself, who's that woman she's talking about? I didn't recognize my behavior at the time as being that way. And I didn't know because sometimes you put on a theatrical voice to make things funnier. I was hoping you were doing that to kind of get people to like you and like the podcast. It's exaggerating.

But then as I started thinking about it and thinking, okay, maybe I could grant that that was me then. And through all the therapy, years and years of therapy, I have done away with those behaviors which were causing friction between us and the family unit. Oh, that's, that's actually a different take. Why was therapy in air quotes? I don't know. She goes to regular, normal psychotherapy. Take away the air quotes. So one of the things also that you seem very agitated about was that you don't bite your nails. Do I bite my nails? No.

So you said it in the past tense. You said it in the present. It kind of bothered me. So then again, I thought you were exaggerating. Okay. Here we go. Here we go. Do you pick your cuticles until they bleed?

No, not until they bleed. Until just before they bleed? No. Yes, before they bleed. For the viewers or the listeners, at home, she's holding up her cute little Eastern European hands. Yeah, they're better when I used to go to the manicure, right. My mother's solution to nail biting when I was a child was to start getting manicures.

So what's wrong with that? So nothing is wrong with that. But by definition, we actually don't know if you're biting your nails if you cover them with gels. It means that you've stopped the anxiety acting out there. Can I ask a question? If somebody has a way of quelling their anxiety, isn't that what you're supposed to do? I mean, in other words, I'm coping that way. Why are you judging me? And I'm thinking if a girlfriend said the same thing, you'd be like, good for you, figuring out a way to take care of your anxiety. So I'd like to remove the word judgment. On the episode, I remember Mime talking about her own nail biting.

Did she speak specifically about, I don't remember that she did. Yeah, I said I grew up with a mother who was a nail biter. Yeah. Oh, okay. It was phrased in the present tense. That's what I had an issue with. Who is a nail biter instead of was a nail biter. And so you didn't recognize that.

That makes sense. And even if I went every week, I didn't go for manicure. They went just to have them polish it, just a little deaf. She doesn't accept that. as a viable way to quell anxiety. That's not true. This is going to be the episode of seeing what my childhood was like. Things that I did not say, which she's saying I said.

And when I say that's not what I said, she said that. That's my life right now. I would say that having polish on your nails, if you are a nail biter, is a good deterrent. Fantastic. Nine times out of 10, that anxiety will go somewhere else. A million percent. That's right. my new philosophy, you're going to take this, but believe me, it's true.

What's your new philosophy, Mom? People, I mean, I said it as a joke the other day, but I think, I think I'm right on it. People are really acting out during this pandemic. And I find especially a lot of senior people are suddenly really more than ever saying, well, what the hell? You know, I've been quiet my whole life. I'll do what I want now. And it's like, really?

I mean, that just doesn't feel genuine or, but anyway. So now I kind of assume everybody has some kind of mental illness unless they prove otherwise. That is the perfect operating philosophy for me. Everyone has some form of mental illness unless you prove otherwise. Do you include yourself in there? Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, I'm asking her. Okay, so what do you think your diagnoses would be, Ma?

Of who? Of you. I was an enabler for a long time. That is a bad, that's a bad condition. Okay. Is that it? That's all? Normal neurotic.

Okay. Describe what normal neurotic is versus unnormal neurotic. I don't have a chemical imbalance. Have you had your doctor test you? I mean, I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm very, but, but I do have quirks and I do have, you know, all the, crazy things that I got from growing up. But chemically, I'm stable.

Hold on one second. I like that she also has a doctorate in neuroscience apparently. She's hashtag chemically stable. You don't like it? I mean, I didn't know they give out that seal of approval. No, you get stamped. When you go to the therapist enough, they say chemically stable, chemically unstable. It's the two streams. So we left off before. we got side track there for a second. What are some of the things, the quirks that you mentioned that you got growing up?

Because I was curious about your use of neurotic, like typical neuroses. We were very outspokenly judgmental of people's physical appearance. Okay, so hypercritical. My father pointed out everyone who was overweight and he didn't understand why they were overweight. If they could see that they were overweight, why didn't they just change that by not eating? That's what he told me all the time. But if he'd go up to them and say it to their face because that's what my father did. He wouldn't go out of his way to do that by any means.

But if it came up. Okay, what else, Ma? Very weepy. Weepy. What does that mean? We always were crying in my house. Okay, so let's break that down. We were always crying for no reason?

He was laughing because everybody was crying. So your dad would laugh if other people were brought to tears? His joy came from causing the discomfort. and then watching the discomfort play out. He took joy in seeing other people hurt. Okay, what else? Very consumed with, I'm very neat, and I think I'm going anti the hoarding I grew up with.

There's usually, you know, one of two responses to that, that either feels normal or you go the other direction. Did you feel an excessive need for order and a disruption if it felt out of order? Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. So that's kind of a control that you can just get things. Yeah, so we've talked about obsessive compulsive disorder, which is a diagnosis some people get. My mother also had a neuropsychiatric condition for which she was debilitated for a year when she was a child.

Seven or eight, is that right? I was nine. She was nine. It was one of the pandas disorders. It's a pediatric collection of disorders that have a very high rate of anxiety and obsessive impulsive disorder that presents after the syndrome resolves. So yeah, so we definitely talked about that. You were also raised. My grandparents were Orthodox and not Orthodox, like you think of Orthodox people like, oh, they like get vegetarian food out. My grandparents did not eat out. They really

operated in a Yiddish-speaking community, really their entire life. Did you have any like, were there any kind of religious obsessions or what was the emphasis for religion? Yeah, there was like a little, there was always a fear that I would always always. open a door and because of the way I was raised and the way the religion was presented to me, it was based on fear. So I always felt if I looked behind my bedroom door, God would be literally standing there watching me. Was there a physical, like, entity that you thought of? Like, what did God look like? Like a person. That's the kind of thing that EMDR did so well. because if you go in with that a thought, you're not making it up, but you'll suddenly see that the person turns around and you see a face.

Let me just explain to people who are listening. My mother very, very bravely and courageously entered personal therapy after my father passed away almost six years ago. And, you know, I think she had dabbled in therapy before. There have been times when I knew she went. But it was really, really, really brave. and she also went to a grief support group for some time, but really, I don't want to say she excelled in therapy, but we do tend to excel in therapy.

Some of us are lifers. But she got the chemically balanced. Right, she found out that she's completely fine. But one of the things that she and her therapist used as a technique is more of like a CBT kind of technique, I guess. I mean, I guess all sorts of people can do it. And it's called EMDR. I cannot remember what the initial stand for,

but we can definitely put it on the website. And it's a method of going into specific traumatic, troubling experiences that tend to consume you or have an impact on many aspects of your life. What it is is it's kind of like it's a therapist-assisted kind of, you know, walkabout in those memories. And it can be very, very helpful. It can be very upsetting. And my mom really did really good preparation for that and super, super, super, super, super proud of her. And my mother took up painting also after my father passed. And she's done a lot of paintings of some of the images and feelings, you know, that she's experienced. So I love that, you know, she's

taken, you know, a lot of her transformation and given it an artistic outlet, it's really, really beautiful. I mean, Jonathan and my artistic outlet is making this podcast. But hold on. Just one second. EMDR is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. And the core of it is that you bring up a troubling memory, often troubling memories we disassociate from them. We push them away. So this technique allows you to bring it closer. safe way. In a safe way with a therapist and then use a series of rapid eye movements to almost like, you know, clear the cache of the computer. You're holding out to two electric buzzers in your hands. Oh. Mm-hmm. So he's pressing the buzzer. And when it presses, you don't speak. And when

you're, when you're under, you don't speak. You're almost in a hypnotic trance. When you come out of it is when you speak. But you have to have weeks of preparation before. Right. And you have to develop a safe word. It's a lot of work. But what was the most fascinating part of that whole experience? And I want to say again, it's not that you imagine or embellish a memory. You literally can see something in that memory you didn't see when you were in it. So I remember a scene I spoke about.

And it was as if a camera moved back behind what I was talking about. and I could see the whole scene from a different perspective. Wow. And they're at a different point of view. And I was able to look at the person with empathy and kindness, whereas before I looked at the person as being evil and angry. Right. So you literally get to move the camera back. I'm curious when you thought God was standing in your room watching you.

He was. was when you had that experience. Did you feel that this God would be angry at you? I would have judgment. Had you done stuff wrong? What was the relationship that you felt? It was always like I was always in fear because when you were told somebody's always watching every move you make, you never have a free moment.

Yeah, that was my fear that I was always being watched. It's a horrible feeling. Do you think that impacted your behavior sort of long term in terms of how you were in the house, like that nervousness. Did you feel like a heightened level of? Absolutely. It made a part of me timid and fearful. And I think that was the intent to keep me timid and fearful.

Because the philosophy growing up was literally, my father said, if you don't leave the house, you can never be hurt. You know, you don't ice skate, you don't ride a bike, you don't go skiing, you don't go in a car, you don't go to an rest. As long as you stay right here, you're okay. It's almost like what we have now in the pandemic, but it's from a different perspective, obviously. So that whole core thinking is an anxiety, structured mentality and outlook towards the world. So while you didn't necessarily experience anxiety or you didn't think that's anxiety, actually what you're describing in terms of your general outlook and framing of danger is wildly anxiety-inducing.

The organizing principle being, you're not safe. Right. That's right. If you venture out of the one-room apartment, you're not safe. Well, I mean, Mom, it goes much deeper than that because you stop trusting your own thoughts, because it's a system of control, you know. A hundred percent control. I think our sense of safety, how safe we feel.

in any moment, the amount of threat that we're perceiving. So if it's, I'm terrified to go out because I've been told that I'm safe in the home or that I'm going to injure myself if I go skating or if I speak up, something really bad is going to happen to me. What happens is that these are very deep conditioning, organizing principles, core belief systems that we don't associate as anxiety provoking, but the very fact that they're running as our organizing principles as core thoughts on how we're perceiving the world is anxiety producing. Anyone who says that they don't experience anxiety is either disconnected from the fact that they're experiencing it or is genetically predisposed not to have anxiety, which I don't know those people,

or they have gone through a significant path of enlightenment or coping or meditating where they're actively aware of it, tracking it, and managing it. And I think there are, are a lot of people who don't recognize that they're anxious, but I would argue that it doesn't mean that they're not. So, you know, Ma'am, I want to say something about therapy. It may or may not be something you carry here, but it's kind of important. A lot of people have asked me, like, how come you're still in therapy? It's six years.

You know, they look at it like there's a time limit, like, okay, you went to bereavement for a year. You did that, you know, why are you still there six years later? So besides the fact that the conditions I'm working on are chronic and stem from childhood, et cetera, I said, look, from my perspective, and correct me, you could correct me if I'm wrong, I said, Mayam and my relationship, as example, has gotten so much better in the six years that I've been in therapy. I don't think it's related necessarily to my husband dying, but I guess it is. I said, but that is not anything that Mayam did to change. Myam is basically the same person.

I'm the one. No, I don't mean this to pat myself on the back. I mean, I was the one that had the stuff that was getting in the way and causing all the roadblocks. So I was the one that had to get, I was holding onto old stuff. I didn't even know it was old. I didn't even know I was holding onto it until I felt it start to go. And that I said in that way, I feel like now our relationship isn't bogged down by all that old stuff. That's very nice of you to say that.

I mean, it's very difficult to do what you did, especially at your age, to say, like, I'm ready to look at hard things or like, why does this person have a hard time speaking to me? And you weren't just like, why does that person have? You were like, Ma'am, can you help me understand? Like, we've had some profound conversations. What else in that episode did, Bev, did you remember or spoke or popped out for you? The childhood stuff was rough. Yeah, it was. The child, I mean, that was like the first podcast and I'm like, okay, this is my life.

It's going to be every week, but it hasn't been. So it hasn't been every week. It was very difficult because we had a specific mental illness issue in the home. And if you're not going to say that, You can't then say all the behaviors of the mother that was inadequate without saying she was coping with a mental illness in the house. Who said inadequate? We're going to mute my aim for a second. Is that fair?

Is that fair? Yeah, I will. There are so many people and so many families are touched by mental illness. One in four people struggle with mental health or addiction difficulties. I believe it's one in four or one in five. And so everyone in the associated family who lives with these people who are the children or partners are all impacted. And so everyone's behavior is colored and touched by that. I think that's something that we talk a lot about on the show.

That was not mentioned as a preface to my behavior. Fair. In other episodes where we do dive in and share personal experience, I don't have the time code or episode, but I definitely believe that we have, you know, both of us have said that we've had. extenuating family circumstances. And I think that's the thing when people are dealing with anxiety, behavior issues, extreme behavior is that it is almost always colored by context. No one is acting out in absence of their own stressors. Caused or in response or in relation to, we all have to own our own behavior and even in amongst difficult circumstances, what we deal with or what we continue to perpetuate is on us.

You're right. But everyone has that external context that is fueling the pressure or fueling their responses. And we all have to be able to manage that. 100%. I mean, I had extreme eczema, my whole childhood, to the point where almost, yes, my am bleeding. My skin was bleeding from the eczema.

And I know that was stress induced from my. household and that was my reaction to that drama. I would like to go back to the part where the word inadequate came because I don't believe I ever said inadequate. I didn't. You didn't say that. I felt that I might have been. Okay. So, so let's just, so feelings are not facts. No. That's called an internalized perception. Okay. Let's move on to episode number two, episode number two was Leslie Jordan. And that episode he talked about, well, we talked a little bit about the neurobiology of homosexuality. And we talked about a little bit about kind of gender politics and how that works its way into science. But then he talked about addiction and he talked about

kind of like his lifestyle and how he just had his first serious relationship is the one he's in now. And what he really kind of talked about was that he thought that being gay was the problem, you know, his whole life he didn't fit it. And it was depression. He happens to be on medication and he spoke very positively also about the program, you know, that he's part of for sobriety. I don't remember you having a specific set of criticisms for me regarding that episode, but what did you think of that episode? So, and there weren't criticisms in the first one, just shock value for myself. But in the second episode, personally, it was very difficult.

I loved it. I loved it because he was so different than his personality on screen. and I expected him to be kind of on, there's those air quotes, I expected him to be on all the time and kind of laughing and get, but he was very, very serious about his life and about his journey.

And, you know, he's in my age group, so it was really relatable. But when he said he felt that cloud that was traveling over him his whole life, he always thought it was related to being gay, but then he realized, it was depression. And that made me think about in the 50s when I did know people personally who had six months

where they would say they were blue and they would lay in bed for six months. Blue like the mood. Yeah. I mean, days don't have a color as far as I'm concerned, but six months they'd be in bed, totally under the covers. And six months of the year, she would. a high-powered sales executive at, I think, Nordstrom's or Bloomingdale's. And in between, she would steal from Jenny's medicine chest because she needed drug. I mean, what did people call

that? They called it being blue. It was ridiculous. But obviously, the woman was severely, I'm not going to analyze, you know, depressed or bipolar or something was definitely chemically wrong that she needed medicine for, in my opinion. Right, right. You know, you grew up in a time, where there was a lack of knowledge, you know? Like, I remember there was, I think it would be, you don't have to name who it is, I think it was a great aunt

on your father's side. I believe she, and I grew up, and this was a story, like, she talks to cars. And I was like, she does what? And looking back, like, that's schizophrenia. Like, she was schizophrenic, you know? But it was just like, oh, she's like that,

or it would be like, oh, he sometimes has, you know, violent outbursts after drinking. And, you know, like, we didn't, there weren't names for it. We always had a euphemism or an excuse or a way to make it sound, oh, he's from New York. That means he hit people. I mean, but we always had a reason. Anything other than he needs some medical attention, we didn't know better, maybe.

So this brings up actually a really interesting point. You were recently published in an anthology of stories. You were recently published in an anthology of stories about immigrants. And you are a first generation American. Your parents of Blessed Memory were immigrants from Eastern Europe. And in your essay, you spoke about what an unusual child you were. You were artistic. You were a lefty, which for my grandparents was really seen as, you know, the work of Satan.

And you were sent with your parents also didn't speak enough English really to function in an English-speaking world. So you were sent with your older, by two years, your older sister on a public bus in the Bronx. when you were how old? I was 11. And she would have been 12 or 13. And they sent you to a therapist, correct? Oh, let's just get it right. They sent me to the Bordeaux Health, as it was out of the Boro Health.

And it was a clinic. I mean, I use the word therapist. It could have been the floor washer for all I know. But I remember, it was sad. But I do remember, my sister was actually jealous because I I got to play with toys in the office. My grandparents didn't spend money on toys, so my mother and her sisters did not have to.

When I was sick. Yeah. So do you remember anything about what that therapy was like? I mean, I know that you had a distinct feeling they wanted you to be different from who you were. Yeah. But I don't remember if she was in any... I mean, how could she even make an assessment without me...

I mean, I guess it told her a lot that I came there with my sister. How could she even make an assessment without... coming to my home and seeing the hellish situation that I lived in. I mean, that's really what you do with a child to say, what's going on here? Maybe there's even abuse. Maybe she, it's not a fit. Not that I would have wanted to be taken out, but, you know, unless she tried and it was rejected, I do remember being always on the floor and some kind of wooden toys on the floor and like maybe a doll house. So that, but I'm never in a chair.

I'm always on the floor. How long were you in therapy? Or how long did you go to the Board of Health? Border Health, a couple of months. Did they fix you? Don't you see? My MBialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't

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our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code break. Head to superpower.com. Use the code break at checkout for $20 off your membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention my ambiolics breakdown to help support the show. Okay, let's talk about, let's turn our attention to episode three. Oh, I love that one. So episode three was Eliza Schlesinger, who you know I've had a friendship with for many years now. I'm very, very curious. Eliza's episode was about, well, it was about a lot of things. She's just kind of a dynamic speaker and she's really fun and funny, I think. And she spoke, though, about some pain that she's been having. And Jonathan and I introduced the idea of, you know,

stress as having an impact on one's body. You had a lot of big girl thoughts about this one. Do you want to tell us what some of your thoughts were? I really learned a lot from that episode because, you know, it's not about an age thing. I love the expression of holding or holding on to something and then that grows within you and creates that pain. I mean, that really resonated with me and it made a lot of since because of the pain I recently went through with my back. Right. So can I just set the stage a little bit? So my mother is one of those people who like, I literally don't think I've ever seen

her sick. Like, poo, poo, poo, poop, poo. Bite my tongue. Yeah. My mother, like, I mean, I would say this if you weren't here. My mother is one of those like freaking powerhouse women who like makes every meal also works. The house looks great and like shit is in order and wash behind your ears. You will be in bed when I say you're in bed. Strip your sheets in the morning because it's sheets day. My mom, she didn't get

days off. My dad, you know, rest his soul was a teacher and like he'd come home at three and you couldn't speak to him till it was dinner time because he was so stressed. And on the weekend, like, my father needed naps and he needed to be in the garden to like reclaim his sanity. My mom mother worked Saturday and Sunday as the Balabusta, like the owner of the home. It was like, today we darn socks. Then we do ironing. Put the laundry out. I'm going to make a pie. Like that was my life. It was like non-freaking stop. So my- Who do you take after? Who you take after your mother. So you. Oh, you take after me. Oh, I take after you. Yeah. You have all those traits. I don't know if you see it. I know how to iron a

handkerchief. Let me tell you. But my mother My mother once had a minor surgery. She had her gallbladder removed, which was like a huge deal because the woman's never sick. She doesn't get sick. She doesn't hurt. And then she, like, once she had a little planter fasciitis. Everyone hurts sometimes. Everybody does hurt sometimes.

But Bev had some pain. And here's the thing. My mother also gave birth to two humans with no drugs in the 70s. I was born but first, which is exactly as challenging as it sounds because you have to birth the body first, the head's still up there, then you birth the head, which is the largest part to birth. She did it with no drugs, like, probably made my father dinner that night. This is not a woman who doesn't know how to experience intensity. Like, this is a woman who's a survivor. However, this back pain, she wanted to talk about it all day, every day. It turns out

she has some arthritis in her spine, which happens. I know she might look 50, but she's not. And she was extremely agitated by the fact that this was happening to her. Now, for her daughter, who did not inherit her body, but inherited that of my father's, which includes four hernia's, chronic pain, all the things, bad back, she was astounded that this is her life. And I'm not saying I wasn't trying to be sympathetic, but she was. She was a very good patient.

She did all the things so that we could figure out what was going on. She now does maintenance at a very safe chiropractor office, which is really more kinesiology and body mechanics. But it's been really helping her. But the sweetest thing is after the Eliza episode, she said, I need to talk to you about this episode. I says, okay? And she called me and she says,

you remember my back? Yes, ma. Was that holding? It's like, I like, I like to be clear. So go ahead. Talk about that. Well, you know, I don't, I know you're going to say the difference, but I'm just going to say for myself,

I don't feel, I talk to friends. I don't see myself exhibiting the kind of anxiety that my friends are expressing over the pandemic. Okay. I would say that's true. I'm not saying, oh, my God, I can't wait. I got to get into Target. I got to go to the mall, which I used to do all those things. all day and all night, but I am telling you that I am totally at peace with being at home with

myself. I don't have a problem. I'm painting. I'm cooking. I'm eating. I'm busy all day before I know walks in your neighborhood. Walks a day. I know everybody. But the point is I don't feel outwardly anxious. So then when this back thing and I heard her podcast, I'm thinking, okay, maybe that's where it all went. Oh. I held, that's like when you, it's like when you, you grip yourself and then you finally can let go, it's like I was holding it in, holding it and then suddenly it like burst and all the anxiety went right to my back, right to my leg. I talk to my friends all my age every day and they're like, oh my God, I'm going crazy. I can't stay in.

I'm going to, I don't feel that, but I felt like maybe that's where it went. All right, Jonathan, you want to speak to that a little? Well, I could say something very unpopular. which is that for everyone who believes that they're not experiencing any anxiety, I would say that unless you're actively managing it, you're experiencing it. You're just disconnected from the experience that you're having. And it's almost impossible to find anyone who doesn't have some sort of physical ailment,

not that all physical ailments are from anxiety, but like those little nagging things, the things you can't get over, the things that are either keeping you awake or causing you to, ruminate. My experience is that the people who say that they absolutely don't have that are either have amazing meditation practice, are naturally enlightened. You said the word I was thinking of. Enlightened?

No, meditation. So this pandemic feels like, I mean, I hate it and I want it to be over and I'm sick that people are dying, obviously, but, and I believe in it, but I feel like it's a meditation for the world. I mean, everybody has had to be quiet. Everybody has had to look at themselves. Everybody has had to live with themselves. And I really feel like that has been my saving grace through all of this. Not that I'm any great, you know, meditator or guru, but I've learned really to be quiet. And I know people think I'm social, but really I'm a quiet person inside. This is one of, like, we should do an episode on top five things I learned after my father died.

My father was the social one, not my mother. Yes. Yes. I planned all the parties and then sat down and left the party. Once the fuck was out, I was happy. Who wanted to talk to me with him in the room? That's how I feel about when I'm out with mine. And you should.

Oh, wow. There it is. So what did you think of the Cheyenne Jackson? episode that we just dropped. It broke me. That podcast, wow, I said in a joke, I mean, inside, I'm a six-four gay man. Can you please give us more detail about that? Are you coming out of the closet? Is that what's happening? No. It was interesting when you said to him something like, oh, wow, my mother's experience is like that a little bit, because I started crying the minute he started talking. and I didn't stop.

On the one hand, I never heard him say a bad thing about his parents until the end where the word abuse snuck in with the church. But I don't have great fond memories of my parents. It was a different era. However, he had these glowing. It was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. We didn't have water, only four years. But the feeling of being not who you're allowed to.

to be, the feeling of being underwater bursting forward, bursting through that ceiling of water, to know you need to become yourself one way or another. I cried the whole time because he's still growing. He's still that boy. He's still under and he's swimming every day. I mean, God bless him. My Ambialics break down.

You'll cry the whole time. I mean, that's a beautiful review. He's so kind when he said, I mean, our people, Miami, don't call it a sabbatical. When they leave their family, it's not a sabbat. It's like, F you. He's dead to me. You're dead to me, right. I mean, I'm talking from experience because I'm living through that sabbatical.

It's only been 20 years. We don't take sabbaticals. We kill each other. and leave no prisoners. The other thing was when... Did you take notes? That's great. This is a full review.

I always take notes on everything. When you said trauma, here's the difference. When you grow up in one house, like three daughters in my parents' house, we're kind of different. We're kind of the same. And when you pointed out, it's your predisposition and then your experiences. because how did I get so different from everybody else in that freaking house? It's shocking to me.

But that really clarified it. But Cheyenne's journey, I just, I don't know what it was about it. It totally. And you know, I just got today, I'm sorry. When you call it Miam's breakdown, I thought it was going to be about people having a breakdown. I didn't take it the way breakdown is meant the other way, just like breaking down. It could be both things. Yeah, but I only took it as the first one.

Okay. I had a little breakthrough today, big breakthrough. Bev, when you were talking about the emotional impact of this, the image of Cheyenne breaking out and becoming himself. Right. You also texted Miami that you are that. Yeah. What's the connection for you in your own personal life to that sort of breaking free and becoming yourself? They sent me to be a mother's helper.

14. I could barely help myself. And they sent me to Muncie, New York, Muncie, New York. It was so far and I was so lost. And here I am watching. I mean, the family was nice, ultra-Orthodox family, Orthodox kids. I was watching, I think, three wild boys. And I remember she would make cake and I was so, I was so scared to like say, can I have a piece of cake? It was like, it's not home. And you're sent there and you're supposed to act like, I mean, it wasn't the days I was a mother's helper. I was making $14 a week. I mean, did my parents think this was like a vacation for me? So that was kind of my breaking through the water because I made $14 a week. I saved $10 every week and $4 I got to spend on anything. That was a lot of money.

So I would go to town. They'd take me to town, like my day off or a minute off. And I'd buy, you know, fringes and pom-poms and all these fabric things and sew it onto plain clothing, like on the cuffs of my jeans, to match the cuffs of my shirt, to match the cuffs of my collar. And I was hot, you know, I felt terrific. It was like suddenly. And I remember my mother came up for one day by bus to see me theoretically. But she spent the day making curtains for that woman. It's almost like what she did at home where she was always sewing, washing, cleaning.

I never got to like see her. And so she came to visit me and spent the day being nice to this woman. It didn't. So then I came home with $100. It was a lot of money. That's a lot of money. A lot of money. But I spent $4 every week.

I went to a movie. You know, I was able to decide things for myself. That was my kind of breakthrough moment. That's a very powerful story. I don't have a follow-up. Thank you. Thanks for talking, Mom. Bev, tell Mime two things that she's doing amazing at right now.

She, well, I'll tell you the truth. She has been, she always has been, but during this coronavirus, she has been an incredible, incredible daughter to me. I guess when I most needed her, because I don't think about it a lot, but I'm here alone all the time. And she just, I feel like she's pulled me through. Emotionally, physically, just in so many ways.

I can't. That's like been the best thing. Thank you. He asked for two things, Ma. That's a good one. I think that. Give you a minute to digest. I digest it.

I want my other good thing. Okay, the other good thing is her work ethic. Oh. Which is really not like her father. But because you know what, he's one of those you couldn't comfort him enough. And Maya, I wish she'd let me comfort her more. Okay. If that's not a teaser for another episode, I don't know what it is.

She didn't want to talk about the things that I wanted her to talk about. I wanted you to ask her like why I got so weird. I wanted to ask her about all the things that she's afraid might come out in other episodes of the podcast because she is clearly uncomfortable with the type of divulging of personal information. She also thinks I'm constantly judging her. I mean, she's just, yeah. Go to our website, Bialicbreakdown.com. Really glad that my mom came on. Thank you, Jonathan, for your patience.

I really liked you analyzing her. Let's do that again. If you're listening to this podcast and you have not already recommended it to your parents, send it to them right now. we want to hear their reactions. If you get an audio clip or a film clip of your parents reacting to any part of this podcast, talking about their anxiety, talking about how their anxiety impacted your anxiety, or any type of parental issues, we want to know about it. Send it to us at biolicbreakdown.com. That's BIA. L-I-K breakdown.com.

If your parents saw God as a black shadow in their bedroom, tell us. And thought that they were always being watched. but have no anxiety whatsoever in our cue as a cucumber. Totally fine. Let us know because I love a good disconnect. Okay, Ma, now you have to say from Mayam's breakdown to the one I hope you never have, see you next time. Or from my breakdown. Okay, go ahead.

Say it. Okay, from my breakdown and breakthrough to the one I hope you never have or do, sign it up. Good job, Ma. It's Mayam Biolix breakdown. She's going to break it down. you she's got a neuroscience phd or two one fiction more than now she's gonna break