Mayim Bialik's Breakdown - Bevisode with Mayim’s Mom! Mindfulness, Self Esteem & Psychedelic Experiences

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

Bev is back! This week we breakdown our recent episodes with Kunal Nayyar, Ricki Lake & Abby Epstein, Glennon Doyle, and Rick Doblin alongside Mayim’s mother Bev. After contemplating whether or not Kunal was deeply profound or just acting the part of ‘Buddha in Jeans,’ we tackle the idea of ageism in Bev’s critique on our first show addressing women’s health. We also discuss the idea of ‘self esteem’ in today’s age of empowerment and how our show on MDMA brought back some old experiences with Bev’s undulating Mescaline trips. BialikBreakdown.com YouTube.com/mayimbialik Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm afraid and shocked at every podcast what I'm going to find out about you. Oh, Jesus. So obviously, you're not an open book. What is the most shocking thing that you've found out so far? It's too much every week. I'm like, what is she going to tell me next week? Maybe the most shocking thing she's told me is things about myself. Oh.

Hi, I'm I'm Biolic, and welcome to My Breakdown. This is the place where we break things down so that you don't have to. It's MyMialik's Break. Hi, she's going to break it down for you because you know she knows a thing or two. And now she's going to break down. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Bev's Breakdown, the place where we make mine very uncomfortable by talking to her mother about the episodes. And today we have Bev Bialik.

Bev, welcome. Thank you. Happy to be here. What I love most about this series that we've recently started, is that Bev takes copious and detailed notes about everything we do right and wrong. And just like any good mother, she has a lot of feedback. And if you're listening in audio, consider taking a look at the YouTube video because mine literally doesn't look any more uncomfortable than she is during these episodes

when we let Bev take over and say pretty much anything she wants. Bev, it's been a few episodes. We try to make this every three episode check-in, but you've been busy, and we're a couple episodes overdue, so we apologize for that. That's okay. So the last one we spoke to you about was episode six with Cheyenne Jackson, where if people haven't listened to that episode, you started off by saying you were a six-foot-four gay man. That's where we left off. What we haven't talked to you about is episode seven. Staying present and knowing yourself with the main man Knaul, what an episode that was. Tell us how it was for you. So a couple of episodes back, I didn't know we were doing everyone, but okay. A couple of episodes back, I said to you in relation to, I don't know who, I said,

I now go through life assuming everybody's bipolar unless they prove otherwise. That's a good assumption. So with Kuna, you said it then. So with Kunao, I said, okay, do I now have to go through life looking at people and assuming they are deep? Because he unpeeled like the proverbial onion. I mean, I was blown away. I knew people like Cheyenne would have a complicated life. I knew Leslie Jordan would have a complicated.

I did not think Kunao. He was so fabulous. I thought that my first thought was he must be acting. I mean, what he was saying was so brilliant and so deep and so mind-altering without drugs that I thought he could be acting like he's deep and not be deep because he's a good actor. But I mean, the more I watched him and he said, meet yourself, that really was, I mean, I get chills now. Because to look at him, and I would see him, I'd go, he'd take his bow. He always annoyed me a little bit because he was a little bit show busy. He was a little bit Hollywood.

He put on the cap, he put on the scarf. He didn't know what to do at curtain call. Just to clarify, at curtain call, you mean when they were taping on the set of Big Bang and you would go and then it would be the end of the show for the studio audience. They would take a bow. He wanted to be so different than the character he played. No, and I think for him, he was really, I think he and Simon had the most kind of difference between their persona and the one they played. You know, his hair looked so different.

I think it was a real statement. I mean, when he said you can't run away from yourself, I mean, he had so many layers and so much grief and pain and anxiety, I almost couldn't believe it because his persona is so mild when I would see him on the set. you never could imagine what was going on. So then I say, is everybody going through this type of deep connection every day? And I'm just not noticing it or aware of it. What were some of the key takeaways from Knoll for you? You talked about anxiety. Talked about knowing yourself.

What did you think about you can't outthink thinking? Oh, I could barely get my head around it. Because that's one of those things you go in circles. because I say about myself, I'm in my head a lot. And I think that's what he meant. But it's like I couldn't, that phrase annoyed me because I couldn't get a grasp on it. It was almost too fleeting. So I couldn't get grounded.

I got meet yourself. You can't run away from yourself. But you can't out think thinking was hard. It was hard for me. What about the idea that there is. someone who is listening to the thoughts that we have, that we are not our thoughts, but each of us have thoughts, and yet we are also the listener of those thoughts. How did that sit for you? See, that's what I mean. I didn't think he was, he does not, he did not appear to me to be

capable of that kind of thing. What does that mean? I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. So hold on one second. This is an interesting point. So there's something about someone when they present as kind of put together that makes you surprised that there's a tremendous depth and complexity underneath that. What about me? You got every world wrapped up. No, but let's say someone didn't know me. I know because you know what? I'm shocked. I'm afraid and shocked at every podcast what I'm going to find out about you. Oh, Jesus. So obviously, you're not an open book. Wow.

What is the most shocking thing that you found out so far? Oh, I don't even know. I can't. It's too much every week. I'm like, what is she going to tell me next week? Maybe the most shocking thing she's told me is things about myself. Oh. Okay.

Well, why don't we do this? We're going to add to your notes, Bev's shocked moments of the week. And we're going to have a little segment within this show. So a little homework for you, Bev. As you're taking your notes, I want to circle back to Bev's shock moments of the week for our next episode. Moving on, we're going to the truth about the pill with Ricky Lake and Abby Epstein. She had a lot to say about this. I love Ricky Lake. I loved her film. I love that whole concept. What I was accused of, I didn't even know

what the word meant, ageism. Because I thought, not my business, and I should say in my late, I thought when you do a podcast, the idea is you reach every demographic. You try and appeal to everybody. I didn't realize that's not possible anyway. So after the podcast, which I loved, I said to Maia, I don't know why you had two people who agreed with each other. And you agreed with them. You, I don't know what the hell you were doing, mumbling about your wife's birth. But I said, wouldn't it have been?

interesting to have a young person, a young woman's point of view to bounce off the three of you. I agree. So what I said was, why have three women agreeing with each other? And my answer, you know what? She explained why, and she accused me of ageism, but I didn't think it was such a bad plan. So we aren't a exploration review show. If we were the Bill Mars show, we would have a panel. We didn't have a panel, but if we could in the future bring on that perspective.

And I would agree that women who are, you know, in their teens, early 20s would definitely have a different perspective on women's reproductive health. That's what you're saying. Bring on Taylor Swift. Everybody would watch. Look, Bev, if you can call Taylor for us and help us get Taylor on the show, we'll definitely have her. You asked Mayam. In my day, I would.

Maim, do you have texts that she sent? based on the Ricky and Abbey episode? All right. You ready? She texted a lot. Very different from all the others, she said. I was thoroughly fascinated.

I felt that a young woman's voice. Mom, you don't get to say anything. I read. A young woman's voice and point of view was needed to give a better perspective an overview.

Basically, you three women were all talking about women and young women, I wanted to hear from one. So, some people might say, wait, some people might say, that's a very hostile thing to say. Doesn't sound so bad. Then she went on and talked about, she didn't understand that like, it's true, this was the first episode that was women's health. It was, it was, you know, that was the title.

So what I said is, my audience is overwhelmingly female, I believe, 70%. I said women's health is an enormous field. Here's what I said. And there's a historic. I said, you have a lot of age stuff come up. What I said is, I'm an academic. Many women in their teens and 20s are not authorities on the subject of women's health and wellness yet. And finding women to hold an audience is also, it can be hard, meaning finding people who want to come on and who can speak to these issues academically.

And what I said is, I think you can keep age comments to yourself. That's what I meant, that the specific issue of, you're talking about young women, I'd like to hear from one. Not my favorite comment. And then, yes, that, I mean, this is just the dynamics of relationships. She was upset. I thought it was a reasonable question. I didn't expect to be brushed off. And I said, I'm not brushing you off.

I'm responding that you specifically said we needed a younger voice to talk about it. And that's an age comment. Then I re-quoted her, her text. And so it went. Did that comment make you feel old, Maim? So, well, yeah. I mean, but it's not even about feeling old. It's about sort of the topic that we were talking about often comes from women who have been through a life.

They have some perspective. Correct. So then Bev took her toys and went home. I'll keep further opinions to myself. And I said, no, that's not what I'm saying. I think in particular with age. And this is something that goes beyond this episode. So I think what we learned here is that Bev did not remember our text exchange correctly.

Let's go on to the next episode. I certainly wasn't implying that the three of them were older. I was just imply I thought it's an education. My mistake was I thought the podcast was an educational tool or a vehicle. You know what I'm saying? To bring in younger people and expose them. We're going to keep that book year for the future. Moving on to personal truth, transformation, and managing anxiety with Glennon Doyle,

the miraculous Glennon Doyle, Bev, what did you think? Well, my am sent me an or I've never heard of her. And I sent me an article. And then I recognized her with her wife from pictures I had seen of the soccer player. I had no idea who she was. You know, she made me anxious just by her delivery. I mean, she's very wired. But I thought she was brilliant.

everything she said, I agreed with. The sentence that I texted mine last night, I think, when she said, oh, look at her, she's got three things to say. How dare she? I mean, I saw a man yesterday on a talk show. He had written his 38th book. Just like she said.

And she was like, I go to write my third book and they're like, you again? And I said to Ma'am, her persona, was she ever a stand-up comedian? because she was really, really funny, really funny. So I think the thing that's interesting, you know, everyone receives information differently, and it's true that Glennon has a specific way of speaking, which can appeal to some people and not to others. It does appeal to me.

I have several friends who are really into Glennon Doyle, like deeply. And one of them, Mom, you know, is Abby, and the other is Hannah, who you don't know. And what's interesting is that the people, those two women in particular who I know who are really into Glennon, they talk like her, meaning they think in those terms. They're deeply engaged in the process of living to the point that like everything is introspective and everything is potentially like beautiful and transformative and like we're constantly realizing ourselves. It's not necessarily your vibe,

which is okay. They talk all day. I'm not going to say, say that can only happen in the same gender relationship. But it seemed like that was what she was saying. In other words, before I didn't have this. And now my wife and I, we are in a conversation all day. Do you think that happens in more heterosis normative relationships? In a good relationship, it'll happen in heterosexual or homosexual relationship. Absolutely.

But when she said it, it sounded like, now I have this wonderful. gift, I didn't have it before. Right. I think the implication was we're at a pajama party day and night. Sorry. Did you and dad talk all the time? All the time. What was that like?

Intense. But, you know, I had to be careful what I talked about. Right. That was a different kind of dance. Well, but this is the thing. And I think that, you know, that is something that, you know, I mean, I have friends who have dated partners of the opposite gender and partners of the same gender. And I have people in my life who are queer and who are, you know, gender nonconformity. Like I, you know, so I've,

I've talked to people, a lot of people. And many people do say that in particular, male and female relationships do tend to be less this kind of, you know, interaction and engagement. And I don't mean to misgender anyone. But I'm not surprised that in relationships where women are with other women, this is what I hear, that it is a lot of processing. What about if it's two men? I do know men who are in relationships where it also is a lot of processing. And usually that comes more from both being in recovery, you know, both being on a very specific path. So there's a lot of complexity to males in male-male relationships and to women as well. But I think that's interesting. I was going to ask, Bev, what were your key takeaways, soundbites, talking points from that episode?

You know what I thought of when I was watching her? What happened? And I forgot to ask you this. What happened to the phrase self-esteem? She used so many words about empowering and women. Self-esteem used to be the word we used. Like, you have to have self-esteem. But it's not used anymore in today's society. Is that correct? It's like an outdated term. Oh, I think that the word empowerment has replaced a lot of that. Yeah. Self-awareness, self-care, you know, I think it's a very... Self-esteem is really the most empowering because you yourself are esteeming yourself. And I wanted to ask you why that word, is it not a feminist, but why that's out of fashion? I don't know that it is.

I mean, I don't remember in that particular episode if you felt like there was something she was saying instead of that. Yeah, I did. I did. I did. I mean, her whole persona didn't lend to, I have great self-esteem. Oh, okay. Hold on.

So, I see. I think what's bumping you, Mom, is the notion that a woman who people look up to and who is considered really a powerful and empowering force, she's fundamentally presenting herself as a flawed person. And I think that the image that you have and the image that you gave to me is that a strong woman is one who says, I got this. Maybe. But you know what it is also? And I'm thinking of Canal now because the podcast all kind of interweave in a lot of ways.

I feel like if I looked behind the curtain with her and I don't want to demean her in any way, It would almost be like, you know, there's somebody behind her, like feeding. Let's think about, let's see if we can do this game. Think about me. Okay. Do you think people think of me as like a strong person? Yes. Do you think that like maybe people feel like I'm an empowered person?

No. No. Because empowered implies to other people a haughtiness. I think there's a difference here. in emotional vulnerability. Yeah. There's a generational shift. And even from when I was growing up,

and we talk about this a lot, where it was not acceptable to talk about depression, talk about anxiety, talk about weakness. And so it's flipped the other way. And now people are like, what is my emotional experience right now? I'm going to talk about that. I'm going to change.

I'm going to allow myself to change because emotions are fluid. And we don't have to be stuck in any one particular, experience. And so it could be unsettling for someone who has been, you know, fairly consistent in their life. I don't know if I've been, I don't know if I've been, I've been, wait, hold on one second. One second. You've had one partner since you were a teenager that you lived your entire life with. And you made every decision together. You built, I mean, you didn't live outside your own parents' home,

nor did he until you got married. So hold on one second. So all decisions were together. You made films together. You made documentary. You traveled the country. You had seven years before you had kids that you were besties. I mean, you guys were like the cutest codependent couple ever.

Well, that itself is radical. It's radical against public expectation of the time, but it's consistent in its experience. I take away that Dr. Jonathan found the issue. I think there's something about this that rubbed you specifically the wrong way instead of having her objectively be flim-flammy because I find her not to be that. And I think there was something that's being brought up for you that contrasts your experience. Yeah, okay. Two questions. First question is less serious.

The second one is more serious. Could you ever imagine dating a woman? Dating a, when you say dating, how do you use that word? You mean, I mean, dating, yeah, but not hooking up or having sex. Okay, but hold on. Is there anything that sounds potentially, like, interesting about interacting with a woman as opposed to a man? Like, just even, like, hanging out? 100%.

But you wouldn't want to, like, feel romantic about that person. No, no. All right. Second question. The one thing that you haven't mentioned is the one thing that has been picked up by news outlets all over the Internet. about me talking about eating disorders with Glennon. Oh, okay. So, yeah, that was one of the big surprises.

But you know what? I said to myself, first of all, I had to text you and say, what was the R word you used? I didn't even know the word. Restricting. Right. And then I thought to myself, and I know you've thought that about me my whole life,

and I've never considered myself to have any, I really have never had an eating disorder, but I watch what I eat every day. Is that right? wrong? It's not about wrong or right. If you were to ask me what my relationship was with food growing up with you, you were extremely healthy. You fed us extremely healthy. We ate, I'd say like a combination of a standard American diet and a standard Jewish American diet. But I do remember, and this is not like, this is what made me, like whatever, that's not what I'm talking about.

But I do remember there was a big health craze in the 80s. The Pridican diet and boy, you did. You lost a lot weight. You got a lot more like fit and you're not a very athletic person. There's many good things about you. You're not very like athletic-y, but you would go to the gym. You got really fit. No, it was a real change for you. I would say in general, I experience you as definitely constantly being careful about intake. But I never bothered you about food. No, no, but this isn't about me blaming you for being a compulsive overeater. I will say I grew up in a family and I think you would agree. very, very fixated on size, meaning even if it wasn't us, like grandparents, aunts, uncles, like, every, and also like, sorry, Holocaust, that'll do it.

It was so hard because I don't know if people were just trying to make conversation. To this day, there were two questions they always asked first. Are they Jewish? Are they rich? I mean, if I hear anybody ask those questions, I literally. So who was asking that? My mother, my father. There we go. Jewish rich.

And, you know, it was always about size, fat, skinny. Yep. Cousins we have who you know are still obsessed with if you're tall or not. I don't even look. I really don't. I mean, to describe people as, oh, the short one, it's like, how do you, how do you do that? But that was big in our family and Barry's family as well. It's a very crass.

I don't want to say, I mean, I don't know where it comes from, but it's a very ugly place. So that actually, you know, plumpness was a sign of wealth, you know, for human history. Exactly. But no, I think when you come to America, you know, you cannot. And also, Mom, you got attention for being the tall, skinny blonde. Well, I was the only different one in the family.

Exactly. So I think, like, that's also like, and the fact is, you know, we are creatures that are attracted to certain proportions and, you know, and things like that. But, no, I definitely feel like, I grew up with a tremendous sense. And also, I was the shortest in my class. So was my brother.

So were you and dad when you were little. And we all turned out pretty average. It's not a big deal. But, I mean, I was, you know, I don't like to say bullied. I was tormented by children in school for being so short and skinny. Like, that was a thing. Then I was teased for being flat-chested. Then I was teased because my breasts got too big, too fast.

Like... Why did they do that? Because they were jealous. Thank you. My Ambialx breakdown is supported by Superpower. We all know the feeling of leaving a doctor's office and kind of feeling like we didn't get anything out of the experience that was useful. Maybe they're like, you're fine, drink more water.

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Miami-Biotics Breakdown to help support the show. Let's move on to the fourth and last episode that we have to talk to Bev about. So moving on to overcoming trauma, MDMA, PTSD, and our ability to heal with Rick Doblin. Let's talk about some of these texts. Why did he say end drugs for life? Schizophrenics and bipolar just might need drugs for life. I'm going to answer that.

What he's proposing is a perspective on mental health that implies that instead of medicating people on a tick-tac basis, meaning every single day you take this drug, what if there was an experience and a set of therapeutic methods by which we could reprogram aspects of the brain to function differently. Now, this is hard for you because you are very locked into certain things about certain diagnoses. And it is true that people who are schizophrenics often do need that kind of maintenance. It's not necessarily true for people who are bipolar.

It depends. But the notion that Rick is trying to put out there is beyond our current understanding of mental health. So the notion that someone gets a diagnosis and for the rest of their life they have to take medication, he's proposing that there are ways to transform someone's psychological experience and psychiatric experience. That's what he's proposing, a completely different way to look at it. Do I know the percentage of people who are diagnosed bipolar or schizophrenic who experience trauma? No, but my guess is a lot. But you would have to change the chemical makeup, not just the psych. Here's another thing that is, again, very different from your experience.

These kinds of therapeutic experiences, whether with or without drugs, do rewire the brain. Therapy rewires the brain. It takes a long time. And people who are in a distorted state or a psychotic state are not able to receive therapy in the way that they can if we give them medication to make them able to receive it. but the notion that he is proposing is a completely different notion of mental health, even understanding. Then you wrote, EMDR feels like a drug trip. MDMA scares me personally. So you have done EMDR. That is a method of visual tracking and sort of a cognitive distraction, for lack of a better word. And it's usually done for trauma or often for specific experiences.

And tell us a little bit what your experience was when you see. say it feels like a drug trip. Do you meet, like, tell us what you experienced when you've done EMDR with your therapist. Well, there was preparation, you know, you do weeks of preparation to get ready for the actual session. Yeah. So you develop a safe word and, you know, because you're going into some kind of trans like state theoretically.

And, you know, you want to. So what happens is in this case, my therapist was licensed for EMDR and he gives you buzzers, which you hold in your hands. And I can feel them now. And I remember gripping them so hard. But it's so trippy. It's so trippy because you go back into that moment. You go back.

You're in that moment. You're not talking about that moment. Kind of like time bends a little bit. Yes. Which I have during the day sometimes, something happened. I will be back there. Okay.

Let's not, wait, I don't want to trigger you. Okay. The, the next series of texts are perhaps my favorite. You wrote. And also,

people should know, Bev texts me literally as she's listening. So I'll get like a full hour and a half of text. It's like tweeting. It's like tweeting. She's live, live tweeting at me.

She wrote, this is what she wrote. I love it. Ready? I'm diagnosed with PTSD. And I was like, I know, mom, we're good. Then all caps. Spend the night at the center? I freaked out. When he said that,

no. So that's when Rick was talking about how for this kind of therapeutic treatment with psychedelics, that's what it involves. It's like a, it's a big commitment. So then she wrote, here we go. I'm going to go back because it's too funny. I'm diagnosed with PTSD. Spend the night at the center. I took mescaline. I can still see the earth breathe. I'll stop. Okay. Let's unpack, friends. First I have to ask one question. Oh, wow. Who is the medical doctor giving those drugs? What do you mean? I know of medical doctors giving these drugs. In that clinic setting, yes. You can go and spend the night. Yes, I know you love an MD. They're the only real doctors. I'm not taking a pill from somebody who's not an MD. Okay. So, I mean, is good to know. Good to know.

Well, it's a little, um, no, I totally get it. and it is prescribed by an MD. Okay. Okay. Let's get back to Mescalan, which you spelled like the lettuce. I believe you put three, she put three emojis, folks. Hold on.

I'm an actor. I'm going to do this. Here are the three emojis she picked. One is sneaky face. The next was, oh. And then finally, so that's Bev's Mescaline experience. Hey, I'm sneaky. Kind of sad.

Ooh. All right. So what's amazing about my mother is, like, here she is. She's a mom. But what's special about my mom, very special, and something I'm very grateful for. My mom was a badass bohemian feminist hippie. And she had, like, long, gorgeous hippie chick hair. Like, there are photos my dad took of her where it's like, oh, they were really in love

and super into each other, he would, like, try out new photograph techniques with, like, how to develop the film. And it was, like, all gorgeous pictures of my mother who he married. She was 18. She just turned 19. So my mom was a hippie,

and they didn't have kids for seven years. They made documentary films where they literally, like, traveled across the country. Did you have a Volkswagen Beetle then? Was that the car? Yeah. And we had a third person in the car with us. Of course.

They always had, like, a stoned friend. So I knew that my parents smoked pot. And I did know that my dad, Dad did mescaline. And I guess maybe I knew that my mom also was involved. So, mom, tell us about the earth breathing. So I'll be really honest. This is why I'm scared to death of drugs. If I sat down on the ground now and concentrated, I could see it moving now the way I did then. Take home message. My mother's been having one long mescaline trip her whole life since she's 20. Maybe that explains a lot.

Not enough. Not enough. Okay, so do you remember where you were? We were in Scarsdale. Oh, yeah. Take it upstate, Bev. Too far away. Too far away.

And it lasted a long time? Long time. It's still going on. Was it a positive experience or was it scary? You know, I don't like to lose control that way. And literally you see everything is the word undulating. Yeah. Everything was undulating.

Because dead objects, things that aren't supposed to move have life. Everything is living and breathing, which is probably true. Oh, it's probably true. Okay, so mescaline is something that's used in indigenous cultures for transformative experiences. Do you remember anything particularly transformative or not necessarily? Everything had like lips and, you know, everything was open, open, open. It was like the whole world, which is really what it is. We're just not tapping into it now.

Okay, so, Mom, this is what we're talking about. This is that kind of consciousness that Rick was talking about is what if we see the world, you know, what if we could have, you know, small experiences or not where everything has lips because that sounds scary. But what if we could have small windows into an understanding that we are all connected? I have not done mescaline. Don't worry. That's not what this is about. I get the concept. Right. I'm just scared of it for me. So the next text, psychedelics, not for me. And then you said, no, this mother says no with that huffy face emoji. You kept referring to me a little bit mocking when you said, oh, I would need to be on these drugs to talk to my mom. I mean,

People must imagine me. And he's like using me also. Oh, use him when I spoke to my mother on God. Suddenly he became part of your plan. I'm like, what the hell? Okay. So then you wrote, it really sounds like what EMDR did for me. What pin is on the lapel of the outfit you sent me earlier today?

I can't zoom in. Wait for it. Is MDMA not legal, all caps? This podcast was brilliant. Right. Then you wrote, bless him. I think I was more. mystical than the mystical dad you spoke of. What does that mean? Well, do you remember when I once said,

I had a real awakening one day and I suddenly had like one of those big aha moments. And I, I texted you and I said, you know, maybe I was the brilliant one after all. And you said, whoever said you weren't. Ah, you mean of you and dad? Yes. So my father, a blessed memory, was a very brilliant man. And he was an artist and he was a filmmaker. And when he and my mother made films, they received a, they got an award at Lincoln Film Festival in 1972. They made documentary films. And they were shown on television, on the American Dream Machine,

which was, you know, kind of a very liberal and like a PBS kind of New York network. They made these films. And, you know, back then, women didn't really get credit. So he and my mother made these films together. And she did the editing, like they edited by hand. And, you know, the film would be. strung out in their railroad flat apartment and my mother was, she was,

I mean, his editor and producer, the two of you were a team, but my father got, you know, kind of all the credit, because that's, honestly, it's how it was. And my mother was a very empowered and is an empowered woman, but it wasn't like people didn't even think of it then.

So my father had, you know, like fear of success, fear of failure. He had both of them. And so often when he would get towards the end of a project, which is not uncommon in people who struggle, especially artists, when he would get towards the end of a project

completing it. Striking the final blow is actually the biblical term for this. Striking the final blow was very hard for him. So my mother would be kind of the one to like pick up the pieces. So the notion was like, oh, Barry's so brilliant. Look at all these things he does. But kind of like behind every strong man is a strong woman. And so I think that that was this realization that my mother's talking about. And when you talk about self-esteem, you know, my father was a very towering presence. And I think for a lot of women of your generation, men were a towering presence. Even loving, attentive, you know, fantastic husbands were a towering presence. And he especially, you know, was a towering presence. Anyway, his memory should only be for a blessing.

Bev, we're going to have to catch up with you more frequently. There's clearly a lot of content here. Keep live streaming. Keep your notes and make sure that we have the Bev's key takeaways or surprises per episode. And we're going to check in with you in about three weeks. I don't even know what's coming up. It's always a surprise. Before you take us out with your sign-off, what final messages do you have from I am as she continues to embark on this podcasting journey?

So I think, listen, I ignored everything. Well, I was never told much by my mother. So, you know, but had she? tried to teach me anything, I would have ignored it. And I was very rebellious. I mean, there were so many demands on me, even when I was married. So I didn't want to do any of them. I just felt like it was, I never wanted to have to, but I always did things because I had to. And I want Mayam to do things because she wants to, not because she has to in relation to me. but on the other hand what that wheel that she's turning I've turned I mean it's it's you know certain

experiences they've been done before they might have a new name you know so I love growing with these podcasts because you know there is a generational gap without question without question and I and I so I mean Monday and people say it Monday is a great day because I know tomorrow the podcast comes out. Oh. Oh. So just a reminder, you are now head of recruiting for audience members. I expect that you're going to be reaching out.

I am who she's got a call. They share a common cat. Taylor Swift. We're trying, Mom. So we're going to get Taylor on immediately. But until then. Taylor loves a mother. She'd come with her mother.

That's great. Any other celebrities that want to come with her mothers, We'll also have them on. We'll have them on the Bev breakdown. Bev, sign us off. From my breakdown to the one I hope you never have to have. See you next time. The earth is breathing.

It's my and Bialyx breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction. And now she's going to break.